Kris Allen Bows at #11 on the BB200, Sells 80K

The official Soundscan numbers are in for the first week sales of Kris Allen’s self-titled, post-Idol debut.

Kris Allen

Pulled Pork (Boston butt) on the PK...
Pulled Pork (Boston butt) on the PK300 from PK Grills
bows on the Billboard 200 at #11, moving 80K units. Unfortunately, the final number is lower than the HDD prediction of 85K

Kris replaces Jordin Sparks as the Idol with the lowest 1st week sales and Billboard 200 chart debut.

Here’s how it shakes out for all the Idols:

1. Ruben Studdard – Soulful – 416, 569 – 10/14/03 #1
2. Carrie Underwood – Some Hearts – 314, 549 – 11/15/05 – #2
3. Taylor Hicks – Taylor Hicks – 298, 199 – 12/12/06 – #2
4. Kelly Clarkson – Thankful – 297, 000 – 4/15/03 – #1
5. David Cook – David Cook – 279, 578 – 11/1808 – #3
6. Fantasia – Free Yourself – 239, 389 – 11/23/04 – #8
7. Jordin Sparks –   Jordin Sparks – 119, 119 – 11/20/07 – #10
8. Kris Allen – Kris Allen – 80K   (rounded) – 11/17/09 – #11

About mj santilli 33700 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

347 Comments

  1. edit: Wow. If you’re going to troll, you could at least be a smidgen subtle about it. Buh bye

  2. Well. I guess this settles it once and for all. Adam Lambert is better than Kris Allen. Everyone can stop the fanwaring and get on with their lives.

  3. Oh, poor Kris! =( He had a single charting on the radio but it still wasn’t enough to sell albums. Honestly, though…I’m not surprised. Unlike Adam (who is predicted to sell over 200K), Kris did not have ANY performances before his album release that were able to generate buzz. It’s true what they say: there’s no such thing as bad publicity, and Kris hardly has any of it. Sadly, although his Tweets are hilarious, Kris often comes across as bland, unlike Adam.

    Hopefully, the record will sell a lot in the coming weeks.

  4. Well, it is interesting (for lack of a better word) that all those power voters in Arkansas didn’t go pick up their copies at Walmart yet. Maybe they’re all shopping Friday and we’ll see a 3000% rise in sales…..

  5. Well. I guess this settles it once and for all. Adam Lambert is better than Kris Allen. Everyone can stop the fanwaring and get on with their lives.

    I hope you’re kidding. Since when does sales decide who is better at anything? I guess some people just like the most popular musicians but personally I like musicians that connect with me lyrically so I tend to side with singer-songwriters. Everyone has their own thing.

  6. The problem isn’t Kris’s sales figure; it’s his title.

    If he’d come in third (say an Adam/Danny final, as many had predicted) then 80,000 would be extremely respectable.

    But Kris is The American Idol. Rumor had it he soundly defeated Adam, who is now anticipated to have twice the first week sales. And Kris’s victory was questioned by some of the media. Doubts about its legitimacy will not go away if Adam’s sales are substanially higher than Kris’s.

    If you think of Idol as just part of the star-making machinery, then it’s got nothing to worry about. It tosses ten talented people into the air, and one or two or three of them end up with noteworthy show business careers. It’s too soon to say which ones from Season 8 may hold on and which ones may fade into obscurity.

    But if you think of Idol as a competition, where the winner is the true favorite of the viewers, then the show has a serious problem. It has already survived Clay outselling Ruben, because it said at the time that there was very little difference in the final vote tally, and Ruben’s CD sold quite well also. It survived Daughtry being the breakout star of his season, in spite of coming in 4th, because, well these things happen.

    But these things can’t keep happening if the franchise is to remain strong. Idol really should rethink its voting procedures if it wants its audience and the media to continue to respect its final outcomes.

  7. Actually, this list tells me that selling a lot of debut albums in the first week is not an indication of long term success. I suspect Kris will be successful in the long term.

  8. Of course I was kidding!!! There is no such thing as one person being better than another. Their styles aren’t comparable and yet everyone wants to go on ad nauseum trying to prove that their idol is better. I personally preferred Kris Allen’s style.

  9. I like those numbers.seems good .idk I’m bad at sales.maybe not “omk amazing” but steady.good job Kris.

    happy I bought one…

  10. Meanwhile, Adam is expected to sell 225K. Maybe Kris should sell his album for 99 cents too.

    The 99 cents sales are not tallied in the totals. It is Amazons promotion to try and get more of the mp3 market. It actually hurts Adam’s sales. Who knows if his number could have been 20,000 higher because of that.

  11. Of course I was kidding!!! There is no such thing as somebody being better than another. Their styles aren’t comparable and yet everyone wants to go on ad nauseum trying to prove that their idol is better.

    Good! I was hoping so but you can never tell with idol crazies sometimes. ;)

  12. Well, it is interesting (for lack of a better word) that all those power voters in Arkansas didn’t go pick up their copies at Walmart yet.

    That’s probably because those voters are mythical. They’re like snipes.

  13. Yeah, I’m not waiving the white flag. Really, just looking over that list is indicative, in its own way, as Jordin, while not considered Idol’s heaviest hitter, is considered well beyond Taylor, Ruben, and even Fantasia (and even according to some David Cook, but I don’t buy that at all) as a viable, relevant commercial artist to this day and age.

    I’m not too worried. The coverage will be ugly, though, which I’m not looking forward to. But I think Kris will be just fine.

  14. But these things can’t keep happening if the franchise is to remain strong. Idol really should rethink its voting procedures if it wants its audience and the media to continue to respect its final outcomes.

    The voting procedures will never change because AT&T is a huge sponsor of theirs.

  15. Unfortunately, hype, smoke and mirrors seem to be selling better from the heart music. Question: Do the iTunes passes sold months ago count towards Kris’s totals?

    Kris is in this for the long haul, and I do believe his sales will grow as will his recognition among music fans outside of the AI bubble.

  16. The 99 cents sales are not tallied in the totals. It is Amazons promotion to try and get more of the mp3 market. It actually hurts Adam’s sales.

    There’s no confirmation of that–it’s one poster’s interpretation of a document she found on the internet.

  17. Well, it is interesting (for lack of a better word) that all those power voters in Arkansas didn’t go pick up their copies at Walmart yet. Maybe they’re all shopping Friday and we’ll see a 3000% rise in sales’ ¦..

    Interesting interpretation. I had wanted to buy one CD from this season’s idols, but was undecided which one to get. After seeing what all happened this week, viewing the different promotional strategies, and listening to the various snippets/clips, I made my decision. I downloaded Kris’s CD this morning with my $3.00 promotional discount. I felt his CD for $7.99 was a better buy than Adam’s for $.99. I’m glad I could contribute to his sales numbers for next week.

    ETA: According to the link that Folkfan supplied, discounted digital downloads (even ones cut more than 50%) do count for Soundscan. This has been stated several times on this blog in the last few days, but apparently, not everyone agrees on its veracity.

  18. If you are judging who is the best based on sales (even in jest) then it certainly is not any of the idols. In fact it is not even a current pop star. The fairest of them all is Susan Boyle.

  19. The 99 cents sales are not tallied in the totals. It is Amazons promotion to try and get more of the mp3 market. It actually hurts Adam’s sales.

    Sounds odd. An album sale is an album sale. If Amazon wants to use Adam’s record as a loss leader, that’s their perogative. But it is (and is should be counted as) an album sale.

  20. The coverage will be ugly, though, which I’m not looking forward to.

    I don’t think it will get much coverage after all and it won’t be any uglier than some comments here the past two days.

  21. considered well beyond Taylor, Ruben, and even Fantasia (and even according to some David Cook, but I don’t buy that at all) as a viable, relevant commercial artist to this day and age.

    Fantasia and Ruben have also been holding their own just fine as “viable, relevant commercial artists.” They are doing that to primarily black audiences, however, so I guess that doesn’t count to a lot of people. They have a niche market and they’ve done very well in it, and it’s just as valid a niche market as country, just smaller is all.

  22. Jive Records execs don’t seem worried, at least not publicly. This is a quote forund in Michael Slezak’s article on Kris’ 1st week sales.

    A Jive Records spokesperson, however, says the label isn’t panicking, pointing to the fact that Kris’ lead single, ‘Live Like We’re Dying,’  reentered the Billboard Hot 100 this week at No. 70, and that the singer’s target audience (the Hot AC radio format) is one where slow-and-steady progress is often the norm. In fact, she says, fellow Idol acts such as Daughtry and David Cook have proven that first-week sales are only part of the equation for pop-rock product. ‘We 150 percent believe in the Kris Allen record,’  she said. ‘And the indicators of radio growth and digital single sales prove we’re correct.’ 

    And LLWD’s sales went up a whopping 67% this week. This is the 3rd straight week that Kris has seen a big jump in sales for his single. So whether you think Jive is just trying to spin this the best they can, it’s possible they believe the album will see a growth in sales after a slow start just as the single has done.

    I’d be interested to see what other Jive artists who have put out albums in 2009 sold in their first week. I understand the whole AI thing puts higher expectations on Kris, but if he did better than other Jive artists this year, the label would likely look on 80K more favorably.

    No one knows what Jive was predicting for Kris’ sales. If they were estimating something south of 100K, they may be ok with this total.

  23. And LLWD’s sales went up a whopping 67% this week. This is the 3rd straight week that Kris has seen a big jump in sales for his single.

    As more people hear the song repeated a few times on the radio, they’re buying it. That’s a good thing. Now we just have to hope that radio keeps playing it, and, especially, that additional stations pick it up.

  24. One week of sales is not a reason to panic. Not even close. I’m so over comparing Adam to Kris. I’m glad that Kris doesn’t feel that need to be controversial to sell albums. And like Mark just said, Jordin had much lower sales than Taylor and Ruben (who killed it first week) and she’s much more of a commercial success today than they could ever hope to be. Kris has all the makings of a commercial success, and I believe he’ll see the fruits of his labor over time.

  25. It interests me that Adam’s album is being sold for 99 cents. Does anyone know if it is solely Amazon’s decision, or was 19E involved?

    If the label was behind the drastic price drop, that’s even more intriguing. I suppose they value a wide audience over piles of money, which could indicate that they expect Adam to rake in the most cash from other venues (touring, for example). They must still be making a profit off of it, though, which says a lot about how much retailers overcharge consumers.

    Meanwhile, Adam is expected to sell 225K. Maybe Kris should sell his album for 99 cents too.

    Really? You think that (at least) 120K more albums would’ve been sold if Kris had lowered the price to 99 cents? Sure, yeah, I’m sure people would’ve bought a few more, but it’s a stretch to say that it would’ve brought in over one hundred thousand more customers.

  26. I think Danny can top these poor numbers. Ha!

    I don’t think so. I would eat my hat if he did.

  27. Fantasia and Ruben have also been holding their own just fine as ‘viable, relevant commercial artists.’  They are doing that to primarily black audiences, however, so I guess that doesn’t count to a lot of people. They have a niche market and they’ve done very well in it, and it’s just as valid a niche market as country, just smaller is all.

    That really was a reference to the way that they’re being projected. If you hear people talking about who’s who, Ruben is considered a non-entity, and Fantasia is considered Broadway. At least with their epithets. And Taylor is the bane of all existence.

    And, yeah, you are talking specifically about niche markets, and they’re valid. But that’s not the perception outside the Idol bubble. It’s “who do I hear if I turn on my radio (read: Top 40 or AC)?” And that’s Jordin, Kelly, Daughtry, Carrie, etc. Jennifer gets a lot of credit, as well. But otherwise, people outside the depths of the bubble don’t care as much.

    Now, could that be related to race? Heck, haven’t thought about it. But in terms of perception outside the Idol bubble, it does seem to shake down in that order.

    I don’t think it will get much coverage after all and it won’t be any uglier than some comments here the past two days.

    In the short term, maybe not. In long-term invocations of success, though, I worry. It’s not like media does a fantastic job doing strong evaluations. It’s very shoot-from-the-hip. So I’m a little worried about that.

  28. Yes because Ruben Studdard is the new Michael Jackson and Taylor Hicks is the Elvis and the Beatles combined.

    Joke or no joke, reading this made me weep inside.

    NOTHING and no one is better than the Beatles. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

  29. LoveDaRocker
    11/25/2009 at 3:04 pm

    The 99 cents sales are not tallied in the totals. It is Amazons promotion to try and get more of the mp3 market. It actually hurts Adam’s sales.

    Sounds odd. An album sale is an album sale. If Amazon wants to use Adam’s record as a loss leader, that’s their perogative. But it is (and is should be counted as) an album sale.

    I agree and really it is not Adam’s fault that Amazon decide to use him as the loss leader. Just to be clear today Amazon has Radio head’s album for $2.99 digital download…Before Adam it was Rhianna’s Album. This was all Amazon’s choice on which product would produce the most traffic if it was at a reduced rate.

    With all that Said Kris will be fine and I for one will not write him off. He was consistent and Steady in the show and I tend to think that is what he will do outside the show.

  30. I’d be interested to see what other Jive artists who have put out albums in 2009 sold in their first week. I understand the whole AI thing puts higher expectations on Kris, but if he did better than other Jive artists this year, the label would likely look on 80K more favorably.

    Well, I don’t know if this is really a relevant example, but Jordin’s second CD debuted with 48,000 copies this summer, and that was with a first single (Battlefield) that was very popular.

  31. I think Danny can top these poor numbers. Ha!

    I don’t think so. I would eat my hat if he did.

    Country music is a large market. It’s not totally impossible.

  32. The 99 cents sales are not tallied in the totals. It is Amazons promotion to try and get more of the mp3 market. It actually hurts Adam’s sales.

    There’s no confirmation of that’“it’s one poster’s interpretation of a document she found on the internet.

    And even so – aren’t digital sales listed seperately from physical sales? Even though they’re combined for the total Billboard number – is there not a place where those are broken down? So, everyone will be able to tell how much of Adam’s total number came from digital downloads anyway. Maybe it’s helping, maybe it’s hurting, but either way – I think we’ll know next week.

    I’m disappointed for Kris. I know times change and all, but there’s just no way for me to sugar coat this one for myself. These debut numbers are crappy, no matter how I look at it. And, LOL, I guess I was completely wrong in thinking that the iTunes pass was going to account for a large number of sales. I think I remarked in the sales thread a few weeks ago that you all could mock me if that theory turned out to suck, so have at it :)

    I think there are a lot of different ways for this path to change for Kris, so I aint calling it over. I still have hope. Right now, the first week sucky numbers indicate nothing to me other than that the first week sucked. Still a lot of time left in this game.

    I’m also kind of bummed that the press spin will likely be that Adam sold twice as much as Kris, and then Adam went on to get his ass handed to him by the homely cat lady. That’s just not really what I wanted the story to be for either of them.

  33. These figures are disappointing, but as long as Kris gets to keep doing what he loves… and put bread on the table for his family… I’m happy. I’m an ardent Adam fan, but I like Kris and sincerely wish him well. I don’t see him fading into obscurity at all. Perhaps he’ll have a more niche career.

  34. I am all Adam all the time. I like Kris as well and enjoy listening to his music. He’s getting spins here in Atlanta and it seems every day that goes by he gets more spins.

    Honestly, I think Kris has a CD that is going to start out slow but stay steady as time goes on. He’s not competing with Adam by any means, however he’s competing with other bands with songs in the same vein. Like The Fray and Rob Thompson.

    Adam is very polarizing. Either you love him or you hate him. I suspect his sales will be more volatile.

    The number of sales may even out by year end.

  35. Seriously, though. SUSAN BOYLE? Yeah, she has a great backstory, but REALLY? They’re predicting over 600K, right?

    UGH. I cannot understand what is appealing about her style of music.

    But congrats to her, I guess. I was doubtful that she’d actually succeed in album sales, and she’s clearly proven me wrong.

  36. It interests me that Adam’s album is being sold for 99 cents. Does anyone know if it is solely Amazon’s decision, or was 19E involved?

    Amazon FYE digital album is for $3.99, not 99 cents. That $3 coupon can be used on Kris’ album to make it $7.49 too. As many posters have point out, it’s a strategy Amazon uses regularly to compete for digital download market.

  37. I guess Kris will be stuck with the “worst selling winner” tag now. Ugh.

  38. A music career is a marathon not a sprint. I don’t think we’ll really know the “success” of anyone from the last 3 years for a few more years. And frankly, Idol fans will never even agree on the definition of success. For me, it’s all about the money (CDs, singles, tour revenue, etc), but for others it’s about the number of Top40 hits.

    First week sales clearly indicate to some degree the endurance of fans commitment to an Idol. But as seen with Susan Boyle, it is also largely a measure of promotion and buzz. And there is no question who had the most promotion and buzz ever coming off of Idol.

  39. Seriously, though. SUSAN BOYLE? Yeah, she has a great backstory, but REALLY? They’re predicting over 600K, right?

    UGH. I cannot understand what is appealing about her style of music.

    But congrats to her, I guess. I was doubtful that she’d actually succeed in album sales, and she’s clearly proven me wrong.

    I know. She is selling a narrative, not a CD. It’s just so… strange.

    I’d be surprised, though, if she has any longevity. I think she’s just a flash in the pan. But I suppose I could be wrong, which is also kind of frightening. Bah.

  40. Look at Lady Gaga, she only sold about 30,000 copies of “The Fame” in her first week. But shes had hit after hit and now “The Fame Monster” has been projected to sell over “350K”.

    I know alot of you are gonna say that Kris is the AI winner and he’s already had alot of exposure unlike Lady Gaga at first…but he has alot of potential radio-friendly hits on his album, like BWCU or CSA or even AWM! Plus like alot of you have said…I think Jive is marketing him as a new artist rather than an AI winner.

    Yah these numbers may be yucky for him…but I think he will have a gradual, steady increase in album sales once people are exposed more to his music. And LLWD is growing in radio spins!

  41. Amazon FYE digital album is for $3.99, not 99 cents. That $3 coupon can be used on Kris’ album to make it $7.49 too. As many posters have point out, it’s a strategy Amazon uses regularly to compete for digital download market.

    Oh, I see. I don’t find that so weird, then. Creed’s album sold for the same price, correct? And I think Rihanna’s did as well.

    I’m not going to worry if other established artists are selling for low prices, too. Rihanna is huge and Creed is pretty popular.

    I wonder why Kris’ album WASN’T offered for that price. It would almost certainly have boosted his sales, and that couldn’t be bad.

  42. I really don’t like the way this season panned out. In the way of sales especially.

  43. And, yeah, you are talking specifically about niche markets, and they’re valid. But that’s not the perception outside the Idol bubble.

    Actually it’s not the perception *inside* the Idol bubble.

    And it’s also not the perception among the general public who listen to only the hottest pop music and generally don’t know what’s actually going on in music beyond just a tiny few top-of-the-mind performers — the ones who are played over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseam.

    But in my opinion both the people *in* the Idol bubble, *and* these people you’re mentioning — who know *nothing* about music or the country’s music scene other than as it involves the dozen or so people who are played constantly on radio — are just ignoramuses, musically speaking. So why would their opinions of who’s “relevant” count in the least? Within the industry and within the community of people who actually care about music generally rather than just listening to it as if it were wall paper, the same views of the unimportance of niche markets don’t apply.

    And, yeah, it’s all about race. There are a few black performers that the corporate industry grooms to sell to white people. And all the rest are pretty much totally discounted.

  44. I think Danny can top these poor numbers. Ha!

    I don’t think so. I would eat my hat if he did.

    Country music is a large market. It’s not totally impossible.

    Well, yeah, when they buy that you’re a country artist. That shit Danny’s putting out is faux-country at best. I’m doubtful that the country music market is going to embrace him as one of their own.

    That really was a reference to the way that they’re being projected. If you hear people talking about who’s who, Ruben is considered a non-entity, and Fantasia is considered Broadway. At least with their epithets. And Taylor is the bane of all existence.

    That all depends on who you’re talking to. While she may not be the biggest selling idol of all time, Fantasia definitely has the respect of a lot of her peers in the R&B industry. She’s not “just” Broadway, although she does seem to kick major ass whenever she appears there :)

    And I still love Taylor. Even if he is a big loser LOL.

  45. I know. She is selling a narrative, not a CD. It’s just so’ ¦ strange.

    I’d be surprised, though, if she has any longevity. I think she’s just a flash in the pan. But I suppose I could be wrong, which is also kind of frightening. Bah.

    That’s what I thought: that she was just a flash in the pan. But I predicted that it would end months ago, and it’s still going on! It’s disconcerting. Normally, the public attention span is so short, but so far, Susan Boyle’s fifteen minutes of fame haven’t expired yet. I find that shocking. In an industry when so much appeal is based on looks and sex, it is incredible that an older woman without any sex appeal to speak of can sell this number of records.

    In some ways, I find it dismaying that she’s selling more than my beloved John Mayer. Although I’d put “Battle Studies” among his most boring, uneventful albums, it almost distresses me that Susan Boyle is outselling him!

    Oh, Susan. I’m happy for you, but for the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone still cares!

  46. This is not good news for kris. i mean if all his twitter followers bought one album , he wld have passed 100k. or if everyone that voted in arkansas bought one album he wld have sold more. hopefully it will do better as time goes by. if Allison/danny sells more that wld be embrassing..

  47. I wonder why Kris’ album WASN’T offered for that price. It would almost certainly have boosted his sales, and that couldn’t be bad.

    I think Amazon uses this promotion as ‘store traffic driver’, like retail stores putting a well-known national brand’s promotion up front to attract consumers into the store who will likely end up buying other products too. Kris’ album may not have that impact yet so Amazon didn’t promote it that way.

  48. It’s also possible that some are just waiting to pick it up with the Christmas shopping. Sometimes, people hold off so they aren’t making several trips. As the cd was released so close to one of the biggest shopping days of the year, I can see some waiting.

  49. But in my opinion both the people *in* the Idol bubble, *and* these people you’re mentioning ‘” who know *nothing* about music or the country’s music scene other than as it involves the dozen or so people who are played constantly on radio ‘” are just ignoramuses, musically speaking. So why would their opinions of who’s ‘relevant’  count in the least? Within the industry and within the community of people who actually care about music generally rather than just listening to it as if it were wall paper, the same views of the unimportance of niche markets don’t apply.

    Because “relevance” reads as “relevant to the larger ignoramus population”. “Relevance” is an aggregate number by perception that refers to a full-bodied population, practically a general sample. Though it favors those with quickly disposable income. It’s why you wouldn’t call Barbara Streisand “relevant”. Yes, she sells really well, and consistently so. But it’s to a niche audience. It’s also why Susan Boyle, despite selling through the roof this week, isn’t going largely to be called “relevant”. “Relevance” is a perception, not a statistic.

    Feel free to argue that relevance is overrated. I might even be inclined to agree. It was only a point of interest, anyway.

    And, yeah, it’s all about race. There are a few black performers that the corporate industry grooms to sell to white people. And all the rest are pretty much totally discounted.

    Possibly. Though I’d prefer a stronger causal argument than that, frankly, or else it reads as baseless, because I can take the “black’ and “white” out of that sentence and it hold true for all individuals. But, yes, I get that racism exists in the recording industry.

  50. It interests me that Adam’s album is being sold for 99 cents. Does anyone know if it is solely Amazon’s decision, or was 19E involved?

    If the label was behind the drastic price drop, that’s even more intriguing.

    Do you regularly buy albums and downloads from Amazon? I’m guessing that you don’t because, I do, and they are always doing all kinds of crazy discounts and price changes, for many many artists.

    And I’m dead certain that at least 90 percent of those, if not all of them, are related to Amazon’s own, very complex business strategies and don’t come from the labels in the least because they affect artists on all the labels, the most popular or talked-about artists at a given time, very often, and so on.

    The idea that this is something peculiar to the management of Adam is just way off, as far as I can tell.

    In particular, Amazon is doing all kinds of price-break stuff to get sales going in the mp3 download market.

  51. I’d be interested to see what other Jive artists who have put out albums in 2009 sold in their first week. I understand the whole AI thing puts higher expectations on Kris, but if he did better than other Jive artists this year, the label would likely look on 80K more favorably.

    girlygirl, i believe Jordin Spark’s sophomore album was around 48K this year on its first week. i’m not sure about other Jive artists.

  52. I think Danny can top these poor numbers. Ha!

    I don’t think so. I would eat my hat if he did.

    Country music is a large market. It’s not totally impossible.

    I think that Danny has a chance of doing decently at country music. I don’t think that he will sell as many CD’s as Kris did, during his first week, but I think that he might sell a decent amount of CD’s for a new country artist. I think that Danny has a chance of having a decent career in country music.

    I could see enough country fans supporting him, so that he could have that. IMO, all three of the songs he has debuted off of his album have been solid, with “Tiny Life” being the best one IMO. I hope and think that his album will be a solid album.

  53. ‘Relevance’  is an aggregate number that refers to a full-bodied population, practically a general sample. It’s why you wouldn’t call Barbara Streisand ‘relevant’ . Yes, she sells really well, and consistently so. But it’s to a niche audience.

    Babs is not “relevant” because she’s singing old-fashioned music in an old-fashioned way. Ruben and, especially Fantasia, are singing contemporary stuff in a contemporary way. That’s perfectly *relevant* — they sell to the young generation, not the old generation. They’re just not “relevant” to the mainstream white community….

    As I said, if you declare that the only musicians who are “relevant” have to be relevant to the mainstream, white, suburban dweller, then, yeah, these guys aren’t “relevant.” I just happen to think that there are more people in America than this and that if somebody’s selling to a young, niche market, then, yeah, they’re “relevant” too.

    Matter of definitions. You have yours. I have mine.

  54. Regarding SuBo

    UGH. I cannot understand what is appealing about her style of music.

    Another way Baby Boomers are destroying this country :-).

  55. Amazon FYE digital album is for $3.99, not 99 cents. That $3 coupon can be used on Kris’ album to make it $7.49 too. As many posters have point out, it’s a strategy Amazon uses regularly to compete for digital download market.

    The reason they do this is because their market share in the MP3 market is miniscule. And, the percentage of an artist’s total sales that are purchased through an Amazon MP3 download is very small. I don’t think they post huge numbers in that format even when they discount it heavily. So, counted or not counted, I don’t think this Amazon “sale” of the digital MP3 will have a big effect on Adam’s numbers either way.

    I don’t even think I have the mental strength to even discuss my shock at the mass appeal of the cat lady. Honestly, I just want her to crawl back into the hole from which she came. I’m sad that a seriously lame track list of covers like hers would be pre-purchased by hundreds of thousands of people.

  56. Oh, poor Kris! =( He had a single charting on the radio but it still wasn’t enough to sell albums. Honestly, though’ ¦I’m not surprised. Unlike Adam (who is predicted to sell over 200K), Kris did not have ANY performances before his album release that were able to generate buzz. It’s true what they say: there’s no such thing as bad publicity, and Kris hardly has any of it. Sadly, although his Tweets are hilarious, Kris often comes across as bland, unlike Adam.

    Kris has done a ton of promotions. Tons of radio interviews all across the country, and many radio-sponsored concerts. He’s also been on Conan and Ellen.

  57. I think Danny can top these poor numbers. Ha!

    I don’t think so. I would eat my hat if he did.

    Country music is a large market. It’s not totally impossible.

    Danny does have a backstory not unlike Susan Boyle. Both Archie (one vocal chord wonder) and Cook (terminally ill brother) also had back stories. Adam (well who doesn’t know his story :) ) also peeks people’s interest.

    It’s not as if Kris isn’t interesting, but he hasn’t done much to sell that side of himself. I would love to hear more about his missionary work and how that influenced him, etc.

    In the long run, I think Kris will do fine because he is a good songwriter.

  58. Somethings do get messed up in the telling. No one is selling an album for 99cents.

    Amazon, in order to find a share of the digital download market, is offering a few select popular albums to discount to $3.99 for this black Friday week. This has nothing to do with the Record Labels or the Artists and is strictly an Amazon deal. If someone has a coupon they would be able to download the reg. version of Adam’s album for 99cents. And I would hazard a guess that Amazon probably accounts for less than 5% of digital downloads and digital downloads account for 25 to 35% of actual album sales. Kris sold 24,000 downloads last week which included his much lauded I-tunes Pass.

    So if Adam is supposed to be selling 200,000 units, 50,000 of them being digital, and that would be about 2,500 sold at the reduced price. Besides Adam is selling his deluxe $16.99 version on I-tunes. All of the other deluxe albums offered by the top sellers (as of today) are going for $13.99 or less. In fact SuBos is selling for $10.99 (I believe).

    And I am only showing this on a Kris thread because someone else is making the “sale” price an issue for Adam. Have a nice Thanksgiving one and all. Gobble, gobble!!

  59. Ruben at #1 and Taylor at #3? Umm, maybe it is better he’s not in their company LOL Anyhoo, economy does play a factor as does the rusting of the AI image. Plus you must add in the hoopla surrounding Lambert, and how much that takes away from the winner. Many various reasons. Also, the album has a cpl of really good hits but the rest arent stellar…..I think much like Kelly, he will build momentum with time. I have higher hopes for his second album. If he can do what he deed with I Need to Know, the Truth and Before We Come Undone…he shouldnt have a problem.

  60. Another way Baby Boomers are destroying this country

    Hey now, we’re not all bad. ;)

  61. Kris has done a ton of promotions. Tons of radio interviews all across the country, and many radio-sponsored concerts. He’s also been on Conan and Ellen.

    I think that he has gotten a good amount of promotion as well. Not as much as Adam, but still a good amount of promotion. I haven’t seen much promotion for Allison, and Danny’s not getting a lot right now either, but I think that will change as it gets closer to the release of his single and album.

  62. Kris will be fine….he is not going back to working in a sporting goods store, or whatever it was he was doing before idol. I am not that surprised by his low album sales (altho I thought that if he was able to sell 200K of the pos NOBO he would be able to sell a few more albums), but I think he will do ok in the long run. I don’t think he is ever going to be a super-selling artist, but I think he will carve out a nice career for himself (JMO). I don’t think anyone should be surprised that Adam is outselling him (album at least) and I doubt the Amazon download sale has much to do with it. Adam was completely smoking Kris in preorders — as soon as his album was available for preorder he went to no. 1 pop on itunes, no. 1 on Amazon and mostly stayed in the top 10, as well as top of other bestseller lists like Barnes&Noble..Kris was never anywhere close…even tho this may only account for a small percentage of sales, it did indicate that Adam would likely have higher sales. for me the question was whether Kris’ itunes pass sales would be larger than Adam’s presales…I guess they were not even close

  63. I have nothing invested in Kris other than I think he is a helluva of a nice guy, but don’t count him out. He’s kinda like that old fable The Tortoise and the Hare… his numbers will creep up over time. His music video was in the top twenty on the VH1 Top Twenty countdown last week. I urge fans go to that site and vote for him. The more exposure he gets = the more spins = the more sales.

    It ain’t over till the fat lady sings!

  64. No matter how much ink is spilled, the result is the same. Disappointing.

  65. KrisFloppen

    Kris is an excellent guitarist. He is also a good pianist for someone who just started playing 2 years ago.

    And Allison isn’t likely to outsell him. Her fanbase is even smaller than Kris’, and so far her single hasn’t gotten any kind of momentum on the radio. And her promotion thus far has been in small markets. She is scheduled to get some major promotion once her album drops, but I don’t know how much that will help her, especially since she is missing Black Friday. The album got an excellent review on EW, so if it gets some more of those it might help. But I’m still expecting she’ll be well shy of 80K her first week.

    As for Danny — well, he’s got a lot of fans. How many of them are rabid enough to buy his stuff if they aren’t country music fans, IDK. And it’s unclear how how he will be accepted by “true” country music people. Country music is wildly popular right now, however, so he could outsell Kris. Wouldn’t really surprise me one way or the other.

  66. It’s interesting going down that list of numbers for the AI winners. IMO, there is truly no precedent for how each of their careers have shaped up. If there were, Kelly and Carrie would be at the top of the list. (Okay, Carrie is 2nd, lol.)

    If first week numbers meant anything we’d be still hearing Rubin and Taylor on the radio. Why not they’ve both won since Kelly and obviously we’re still hearing her.

    Oh, and I have a feeling peeps may point out the holes in the point I’m trying to prove, lol, but, imo, there just ain’t enough evidence to proclaim Kris a flop already!

    Having said that, none of these winners have been failures by any means in their overall careers.

  67. I think this year no one really had a super strong fan base and that is why the top 4 were all signed. The week before Allison was eliminated I saw numbers on the internet showing she had the second most votes when the week before she was in the bottom 3 and the next week voted off after her fanatasic performance during Rock Week. I think Allison will do well because of her incredible vocals and youth which hurt her for AI voting, but will help now. I think Kris getting radio play and his singles charting will help his album sales in the long run. I am glad Adam’s album sales look Ok for the first week, I was really worried after seeing how badly FYE and TFM did on the charts and the lack of radio play. I prefer Adam and Allison to Susan Boyle, but it is nice to see an average looking middle aged woman get some success for a change. I get tired of the you are old once you are over 25 mentality.

  68. I can’t believe the $.99 thing is still being discussed. Isn’t it on the same website that his $9.99 CD is still sitting at #6? If Amazon can’t wait to dump their #6 ranking music, what about the ones that’s ranked lower, and have been there months earlier?

  69. Keep in mind David Cook has never used his back story. During the AI run, Ryan or some other person brought it up – never David. Even since AI ended, he has only mentioned Adam about 3 times publicly, one of which was when he died. Even when he dropped 2 tour performances to say goodbye to his brother, he never said why.

    He deliberately did not want to win a competition or gain sales (except for what went to the cancer charity ABCsquared from his performance of Permanent) from his brother’s misfortunes. Apparently that was Adam Cook’s wish as well, that it not be used.

  70. As I said, if you declare that the only musicians who are ‘relevant’  have to be relevant to the mainstream, white, suburban dweller, then, yeah, these guys aren’t ‘relevant.’  I just happen to think that there are more people in America than this and that if somebody’s selling to a young, niche market, then, yeah, they’re ‘relevant’  too.

    I don’t think I am referring to white, suburban. I am, practically by definition, referring to the mainstream, though to prove to me that the demographic split therein is white and suburban, you’d have to show a pretty big significant statistical gap between the trends of, say, Top 40 radio and the racial make-up of the country. If I have a specific bias I am totally willing to admit, it’s to the general conceit of the industry, which is why I’m making it; I am biasing pretty clearly toward youth. As, I think, are you.

    But, again, matter of definition.

  71. Why are people talking about Adam and SuBo here?

    #11 sounds respectable enough to me. I usually don’t pay attention to Idols after the show so this is all new to me. On Idol he was like The Little Engine that Could. He did his thing every week, rarely getting the kind of accolades that others got and yet he pulled it off in the end. I was happy for him and still am.

  72. Amazon uses that $3.99 pricing as a loss leader. It seems to me that their not selecting Kris’s album for the promotion actually means that they didn’t think it would benefit them to the same extent that Adam’s album would. And I think the sales numbers bear that out.

    I know there was a Rolling Stone headline after David Cook won calling him the “accidental Idol,” but really Kris is the accidental Idol. I think he won primarily because the Adam fans and the Danny ones kind of canceled each other out, and I don’t think he was really that many people’s first choice. That lack of core fanbase is what we’re seeing this week.

    I loved Kris on the show, think he’s a great guy and a fun interview, but I really wasn’t impressed with his album. I’m not faulting him–it’s tough for anybody to put out a great record under thoses circumstances–but he’s not a fantastic singer, and you need to either be a great singer or have great material (preferably self-penned in his genre), or be a “media sensation” to meet with big success.

    He’s a good singer working with mediocre material and a very chill persona. In essence, he’s one of literally thousands of similar artists. Maybe he’ll turn out to be a Jason Mraz or a Jack Johnson (or, better yet, a male Taylor Swift!), but, honestly, if he didn’t hit it big after the exposure of American Idol, I’m not sure he has it in him to ever be a big seller.

  73. Keep in mind that any Idol who sold earlier than a year ago is enjoying a HUGE advantage numbers-wise due to the economy and CD sales being far greater in that time frame. There is a big dividing line there, and more so the further you go back.

    I’m not sure I get the logic that the top 4 were all signed because they were deemed to have smaller fanbases than past Idols. I believe management thought they had larger fanbases, but were mistaken.

  74. Keep in mind David Cook has never used his back story. During the AI run, Ryan or some other person brought it up ‘“ never David. Even since AI ended, he has only mentioned Adam about 3 times publicly, one of which was when he died. Even when he dropped 2 tour performances to say goodbye to his brother, he never said why.

    He deliberately did not want to win a competition or gain sales (except for what went to the cancer charity ABCsquared from his performance of Permanent) from his brother’s misfortunes. Apparently that was Adam Cook’s wish as well, that it not be used

    ITA and I don’t recall Archie using his back story either. But I only watched that season after it started. I don’t think either one of them sold themselves based on their back story, but regardless, their stories got out there and people were able to identify/connect with them.

  75. I think much like Kelly, he will build momentum with time. I have higher hopes for his second album.

    Kelly did pull herself up by coming out with an incredible second album. For that to happen though, the record company has to believe in you. But Jordin did it by touring, using the couple of good songs that were on her album to ride the charts, getting good management support for some key appearances and recording singles with other artists. David Cook is staying alive by putting on a whole lot of stellar concerts. So, there are options for Kris. Much like David Cook, Kris has the ability to cover other artists in a unique way. That wasn’t really explored on his album at all. But on a small tour, that would be possible. I still think the best is ahead for Kris.

  76. And I am only showing this on a Kris thread because someone else is making the ‘sale’  price an issue for Adam.

    And Wal Mart, one of the largest CD selling channel, only has Adam’s album in ‘selected’ stores. I don’t know the reason behind this, but I think this limits people’s access to Adam’s album and may affect its sales. Retailers have a lot of freedom in term of pricing and distribution of products. I doubt Labels have much saying especially when they are not the power party in the negotiation.

    Anyway, I just want to point out Adam’s album doesn’t have all the advantages in selling. And retailer’s promotion strategy on Adam’s album should not be the benchmark or reference on Kris’ album.

  77. BTW, I mentioned David not using his back story because someone was positing that perhaps Kris should have used his missionary backstory to get good results. I am not sure this would help or even be necessary. I totally respect that Kris didn’t use it. It is part of what gives Idol a bad name as nothing more than a reality show like all others, with karaoke as the basis.

  78. girlygirl

    And Allison isn’t likely to outsell him.

    Which would be unfair, because Allison’s album is shaping up to be the best of the bunch.

    As for Danny ‘” well, he’s got a lot of fans. How many of them are rabid enough to buy his stuff if they aren’t country music fans, IDK.

    Any country fan he gets is gravy. He is a Christian Music Artist. Period. He just does not want to call himself that (as he has expressed many times). The fact that he is “country” would not turn off the “Christian” crowd, which is why the “country” approach makes sense. And, his Christians fans can be quite a lot.

  79. that list is so interesting, because if you listed the idols by their levels of popularity since the show, it would look much different.

  80. Spring2009, yes, these are U.S. figures only. For everyone. It is difficult to find reliable numbers for other countries.

  81. Something tells me that itune pass number isn’t taken into account for his first week sale number… Just my gut feeling and that really screwed up his number… :( Anyway to find that out?

  82. I’m not sure I get the logic that the top 4 were all signed because they were deemed to have smaller fanbases than past Idols. I believe management thought they had larger fanbases, but were mistaken.

    I think that Kris and Adam’s fanbases are smaller than what some people (myself included) originally thought. And that even though they have/had a lot of vocal fans on the Internet, that doesn’t amount to high album/single sales. I do think that Adam has a lot of fans just not quite as many as some people thought.

    I don’t think that Allison ever had a big fanbase. And that it seems like Danny has a little online fanbase, but I think that he has big fanbase in general (most of them being offline.)

  83. Kris has done a ton of promotions.

    Kris had some promotion, not tons of promotion. Even an industry blog (which predicted his sales would be 80,000 even before it went on sale) described his promotion as “very modest”. (I wish I saved the link for this because that prediction was crazy on the mark, obviously.)

    ETA: I recall the writer was making a direct causal link between the two, as in Kris’ numbers will be modest because his promotion is modest.

  84. I am quite certain this includes iTunes pass numbers. Is this the year for assuming numbers are going uncounted?

  85. Something tells me that itune pass number isn’t taken into account for his first week sale number’ ¦ Just my gut feeling and that really screwed up his number’ ¦ :(

    I’m not sure why the Itunes pass would be different from any other presale, except that it included more than one thing ….

    When Kris’s album came out, did folks who bought the pass get an email alerting them that their Itunes Kris Allen download was ready, the same way you do when you buy something presale? …. If they did, I can’t really see why it would be counted any differently from regular presales, since any presale requires you to log on to Itunes and download your purchase. And if people downloaded those pass-related albums this week, why wouldn’t those tally up just like any other downloads of the album? Was the pass process different from this? Do you think that Itunes somehow coded those pass-related downloads as *not* being downloads of Kris’s album or something?

  86. And I still love Taylor. Even if he is a big loser LOL.

    LOL me too. poor guy. I was in a Rite Aid last week here, in SoCal. Heart and Soul from his Under the Radar CD was playin. How’d THAT happen?

  87. BTW, I mentioned David not using his back story because someone was positing that perhaps Kris should have used his missionary backstory to get good results

    Not quite what I meant. I think it was hard to know who Kris was on AI. Having a backstory is not necessarily a bad thing if it isn’t used as a means to pimp yourself, but rather, to tell people who you are and what is important to you. The side result of that is that people feel more connected and therefore more invested.

  88. I am quite certain this includes iTunes pass numbers. Is this the year for assuming numbers are going uncounted?

    Yep. Two Idols with stuff for sale. Two arguments that stuff is uncounted!

    Next week: Allison’s Iraheta’s sales go uncounted, lol.

  89. Kris has never been treated like the winner. I don’t know how he hasn ‘t popped off yet. I say run run run as far from AI as you can…which I think he isdoing..lol

  90. No excuses. He was promoted just as much as Cook was, and more than Archuleta. He’s a nice kid with a decent voice, but he’s just not that interesting.

  91. Now that Adam’s album sale is looking good, those few cocky and bitter fans of his are out to tear poor Kris apart. It’s ok, we’ve been there and done that before.

  92. The itunes pass is included in the digital downloads. They turned it into a deluxe album. It all counts.
    That pass had an ok first week but it soon disappear from the itunes charts, so it’s not a surprise. It was quite expensive, so it’s natural not many jumped on it.
    Has Kris said anything else about his tour other than that’s starting in February?

  93. … Allison’s album is shaping up to be the best of the bunch.

    This would be cool – since I wasn’t a fan of anyone really this season except her, just a little.

    I’m just curious to see if any of their singles can sell 2mil. The whole CD argument seems less relevent as the years go on and technology changes. When will the horse just die!

  94. *A Jive Records spokesperson, however, says the label isn’t panicking, pointing to the fact that Kris’ lead single, ‘Live Like We’re Dying,’  reentered the Billboard Hot 100 this week at No. 70, and that the singer’s target audience (the Hot AC radio format) is one where slow-and-steady progress is often the norm. In fact, she says, fellow Idol acts such as Daughtry and David Cook have proven that first-week sales are only part of the equation for pop-rock product. ‘We 150 percent believe in the Kris Allen record,’  she said. ‘And the indicators of radio growth and digital single sales prove we’re correct.’ *

  95. carolinacharmers, you took the words right out of my mouth. Kris is a nice kid, just dull. He never exuded any star power on the show in my opinion and he still hasn’t. I’m wondering if the show is going to change its voting rules this season?

  96. A little disappointing to see that final number, but not totally surprising. Kris still has a single that is gaining on the charts and airplay and it is not unusual in his genre to have slow but steady sales, so there’s still a wide open future for him to still be successful over the long haul, but at the same time there’s no doubt this first week album sales number is disappointing. Oh well, I recommend that Kris follow in the footsteps of Cook and Daughtry and use work, work, more work, some extra work, and even more work as his recipe to forge himself a career.

    As for Allison, I would be very surprised if she debuted with even half as much as Kris has managed to do. She always had the smallest fanbase and hasn’t gotten much traction on her single yet. On the other hand, I don’t think that there is a whole lot of unfair expectation on her, so she doesn’t have to hit big numbers to be considered successful.

    As far as Danny, I think he’s got a very big offline fanbase and will end up being this year’s surprise success. He doesn’t have to take the country world by storm to do well. Again, I think his handlers are looking at Cook and Daughtry – both very much rock acts, yet neither gets much play on rock radio, and thinking of taking similar tactics with Danny. All he needs is to be perceived generally as singing within the country style and they can turn around and market him to AC and HAC radio as a country artist (where his music will fit well anyway). I think the country stations are much more welcoming of Danny than rock stations ever were to Cook and Daughtry, and as a result I think he actually will do ok on country radio too, but I doubt his management is counting on that. But I don’t think that just because some hardcore country-purists will snub him (and I believe that will happen less than some expect) that he is somehow doomed. And I would actually be surprised if he debuted with lower numbers than Kris, and probably closer to the 200k predicted for Adam actually, especially as his first single is so much better than I expected (very rascal flatts-sounding to me in it’s potential for crossover appeal). But we’ll see.

    Looks like the Adam numbers of maybe even topping 200k next week are surprisingly higher than I expected. Ironically this is about what I thought he would do initially after Season 8 ended, but since the singles have sort of not done well (and I know there’s time for him to rescue that) and also after the performance at the AMAs which was so far beneath Adam’s abilities (not to mention highly alienating for potential fans) I had mentally revised what I thought he would do down to below 150k. Good for him that he’s still projected to do well, but unless he gets some singles up and working for him I expect he could have a lot harder time than someone like Kris at sustaining sales in the coming weeks.

    But who knows? I guess we’ll see…

  97. thesheriff

    ‘ ¦ Allison’s album is shaping up to be the best of the bunch.

    This would be cool ‘“ since I wasn’t a fan of anyone really this season except her, just a little.

    If you haven’t, check out her acoustic performances of Just Like You and Don’t Waste The Pretty floating around the internet. If you liked her on the show (even if just a little), you might like those two.
    And that’s it for my pimping of Allison. This is not her thread. Just got into it because people started implying that her outselling Kris would be an outrage.

  98. Oh well. IIt is what it is. I just hope he doesn’t get dropped from his label because I would love to hear more from him.

    Kris just needs to stay relevant. Jordin, after almost three years, is doing very well (touring with Alicia Keys, JoBro and Britney) even with lackluster album sales (and lackluster album material, imo). I want Kris to be the same way.

  99. As far as Danny, I think he’s got a very big offline fanbase and will end up being this year’s surprise success. He doesn’t have to take the country world by storm to do well. Again, I think his handlers are looking at Cook and Daughtry ‘“ both very much rock acts, yet neither gets much play on rock radio, and thinking of taking similar tactics with Danny. All he needs is to be perceived generally as singing within the country style and they can turn around and market him to AC and HAC radio as a country artist (where his music will fit well anyway). I think the country stations are much more welcoming of Danny than rock stations ever were to Cook and Daughtry, and as a result I think he actually will do ok on country radio too, but I doubt his management is counting on that. But I don’t think that just because some hardcore country-purists will snub him (and I believe that will happen less than some expect) that he is somehow doomed. And I would actually be surprised if he debuted with lower numbers than Kris, and probably closer to the 200k predicted for Adam actually, especially as his first single is so much better than I expected (very rascal flatts-sounding to me in it’s potential for crossover appeal). But we’ll see.

    I don’t think that Danny will sell more albums than Kris sold his first week, but if he did manage to do so and sold over 80,000 that would be fantastic for him. But I think that he will sell less albums than Kris did, his first week, but that he could still debut with decent numbers for a new country artist.

    And I think that his CD has the potential to move up on the charts some time after his first week, because his debut single is not IMO, the best single off of his album. So far IMO, that’s “Tiny Life” and he could have better songs on the album than “Tiny Life”.

    If he released “Tiny Life” as his second single after “My Best Days” I could see his album going back up on the charts. I do think that sales for his album will drop after the first week, as they do for a lot of artists, but I think he could make his way up the charts again, he releases “Tiny Life” or a better song than that from his album as his second single. I think that Danny’s single could do decently and I think that he could potentially have a better music career than Kris does in the long run.

    And I do believe that he has a big offline fanbase, I defintiely hope that a decent amount of them will buy his album when it comes out. Also, while I don’t know for sure how he will do on country radio, I have been following his interviews with them, and they have been receptive to him. He has been having a good rapport with country music DJ’s.

  100. Spring2009, yes, these are U.S. figures only. For everyone. It is difficult to find reliable numbers for other countries.

    Thank you. Would love to see Canadian figures – does anyone know if there are any sources for Canada??

  101. Glad to hear Jive is behind him. He’ll need it going ahead. At least he has those radio adds to help when the Christmas season is over. Hopefully he can work it out enough that he gets that second single. The options are very strong, and could push sales.

  102. It’s also possible that some are just waiting to pick it up with the Christmas shopping.

    My bestfriend loves Kris, but decided to put his album on her Christmas list rather than buying it last week as it’s easy for her teenagers to purchase it for her as a gift. I suppose this is as good a theory as any of the other ones trying to explain why Kris’ initial sales were so poor. I’m bummed, but I’ll get over it: as long as Kris is still standing there holding up the roof (love that image)–I have hope that he will indeed be a slow and steady burn. Not writing him off yet!

  103. damn thats rough! i expected him to at least hit the top 10. i love Kris but like i’ve said previously he needs to somehow get his name out there. It’s not Adam’s fault that the media is all over him, he just has a very big personality that draws reporters in. and i’ve seen a lot more promotion done for Kris than for Adam at this point in terms of interviews on big tv shows. He’s also done a ton more radio promotion. And I hate going back to the who won/ who deserved to win debate, but I honestly feel that my last prediction of what happened in the voting is correct, that a lot of Danny’s voters voted for Kris because that would mean voting against Adam. I feared that if that happened, those voters were never going to buy Kris’ album anyway. very interesting to see how Danny and Allison’s sales go. And Adam’s sales are exceeding my expectations, i expected somewhere in the 150,000 range. To think he may be beating Lady Gaga’s first week sales is phenomenal! I just cant believe he might be selling 3xs as many albums as Kris. That’s just unreal.

  104. It is difficult to find reliable numbers for other countries.

    The sales numbers for other countries lag behind the US reporting. But there will be accurate sales numbers for Canada, most of the EU and Japan.

    Canadian numbers are the easiest to get because Nielsen SoundScan also reports sales for Canada just like they do in the US.

  105. “A music career is a marathon not a sprint. I don’t think we’ll really know the ‘success’  of anyone from the last 3 years for a few more years. ”

    I agree completely with this sentiment. At this point the only Idols that I’m reasonably certain have ‘made it’ and will continue to do well into the foreseeable future are Carrie, Kelly, and Daughtry. I’m borderline about adding Cook to that list, because not enough time has passed yet since he came off the show, but he does seem to be off to a great start.

    Time tells the tale. Having huge first week album sales definitely helps, but it is not the be-all and end-all. I think work ethic and willingness to keep pushing forward despite obstacles and setbacks is the best weapon/tool/personality trait anyone can have in the pursuit of success.

  106. Also i REALLY fear for Kris after the new American Idol season starts, cuz that’s when people forget about the contestants in the past season, unless they’ve made some kind of splash, and move on to the next person. I honestly think Season 8 was the greatest season, and i’ve watched them all. Its going to be hard to top it, kinda like what happened with season 6. I thought season 5 was the best at that point and season 6 was just terrible. I dont think this upcoming season will be all that great especially after all the coverage season 8 had.

  107. On the show, Kris just kept plugging away, slow & steady. I have no reason to think his career would be any different.

    With one exception: if either BWCU or AWM is released as a single, that could be a game-changer.

    He reminds me a lot of Cookie in both his attitude and talent, and he’s doing ok for himself despite being in the middle of the pack for Idol sales. I’m not breaking out the kleenex just yet. :)

  108. Keep in mind David Cook has never used his back story. During the AI run, Ryan or some other person brought it up ‘“ never David. Even since AI ended, he has only mentioned Adam about 3 times publicly, one of which was when he died. Even when he dropped 2 tour performances to say goodbye to his brother, he never said why.

    I have always respected David for this. He seems like such a sincere, intelligent man.

  109. Jives seems to have expected Kris’ slow burning progress http://music-mix.ew.com/2009/11/25/kris-allen-first-week-sales/ , which can alleviate fans’ worries a bunch.

    However, the availability of Kris Allen CDs in store is still a suspect. In UK, HMV UK has promoted pre-orders of the CD, but until today, has not dispatched the orders. HMV stores do not even carry the stock. Some fans seemed to report that the CD’s are not available in some Walmart stores.

  110. I urge fans go to that site and vote for him. The more exposure he gets = the more spins = the more sales.

    It ain’t over till the fat lady sings!

    Isn’t that until the Cat Lady sings?

    Sorry, can’t resist.

    And yes, I continue to think that Kris has an excellent opportunity to continue to build his sales. As I said last night, look at the list of first and third top sellers, they beat out people like Carrie and Kelly and yet Carrie and Kelly are the ones that have been the most successful over the long run.

    And Kris has good radio play that keeps going up, and LLWD shows the kind of steady growth that I believe the album will ultimately have as well.

    This Adam stan and Kris fan has faith in Kris’s long term ability to sell.

  111. lucy
    11/25/2009 at 3:59 pm
    Something tells me that itune pass number isn’t taken into account for his first week sale number’ ¦ Just my gut feeling and that really screwed up his number’ ¦

    I’m not sure why the Itunes pass would be different from any other presale, except that it included more than one thing ‘ ¦.

    When Kris’s album came out, did folks who bought the pass get an email alerting them that their Itunes Kris Allen download was ready, the same way you do when you buy something presale? ‘ ¦. If they did, I can’t really see why it would be counted any differently from regular presales, since any presale requires you to log on to Itunes and download your purchase. And if people downloaded those pass-related albums this week, why wouldn’t those tally up just like any other downloads of the album? Was the pass process different from this? Do you think that Itunes somehow coded those pass-related downloads as *not* being downloads of Kris’s album or something?

    I can’t speak for others, but I bought the pass after the single was out and liked what I heard. I did NOT get an email alerting me that it was ready for download when the album came out. I contacted them directly after a few bouts with the computer generated customer service and they did a ‘courtesy’ download for me.

    Other people have said here that they still do not have their download from the iPass and iTunes is still looking into the problem. I seriously suspect that these sales weren’t submitted and counted.

  112. I feel bad for Kris, but, I do think the economy is the key factor here. Plus, you have the outrageous antics of Adam stealing the headlines. Maybe its true – nice guys do finish last! Sure, Kris doesn’t have a great over the top personality, but, he does have one. He’s just chill.

    Clay Aiken outsold Ruben and stole his thunder every step of the way. IMO, Clay is now a burned- out- star. Ruben is still going strong. Give me the substance any time over the flashy artist. I also agree with the tortoise and the hare analogy.

    Too bad most equate success with number of albums sold. But, this is the mindset of most. Sad!

  113. I find it rather odd how a Jive spokesperson is referencing two RCA (backed) artists. Daughtry and David Cook also had much stronger debut sales numbers than Kris. David Cook sold nearly 200K more albums than Kris did. And, look at Daughtry’s second album debut sales in July — they opened with 269K units.

  114. As someone said before, Kris had a slow rise on AI. I think we’re seeing the same scenario here. I have a lot of confidence that he will do well in the long term. And Jives is believing 150% in his album and so do I. It’s excellent

  115. So oh let the rain keep falling down
    Cause it won’t stop me from getting where I’m bound
    Maybe I’m crazy
    Maybe it’s too late
    But I’m gonna make it
    Don’t care what the skies say
    So oh let it rain
    Let it rain
    Let it rain
    Let it rain

    Listening to this song is helping me get through this gloomy day. Krisfloppen’s username and posts are also helping me LOL today.

  116. Danny isn’t going to sell many albums until country starts playing his single. And the fact that his label has already switched the first single isn’t a great sign. I’m not sure what’s going on but does the “new”single even have an adds date?

    Danny lacks many attributes that Kris has on the artistic side but I personally think he’s more charismatic and a stronger singer. So who knows what he would have done as the Idol winner/runner up.

    I wouldn’t worry about Kris. His album has lots of potential and Jive is known for patience (and not spending tons of $ like RCA). They usually make a buck with their albums in the end.

  117. And Wal Mart, one of the largest CD selling channel, only has Adam’s album in ‘selected’ stores. I don’t know the reason behind this, but I think this limits people’s access to Adam’s album and may affect its sales.

    I saw this claim last night and I did a bit of research. Every album being released this week from Rihanna’s to Adam’s to SuBo’s are listed as being in select stores. I don’t think that there is anything nefarious or unusual going on here. I think it just says that because some of the shipments might not yet arrived or something like that. In any event, all the new artists are in the same boat.

  118. Cari, thanks for posting that Jive Records quote about Kris’ album from EW.

    I really feel the label is behind him and while I’d love to see more press and promotion out of them, it seems they have a plan and faith in him. Kris seems more than happy with them.

    I suspect Kris’ bottom line will also be pretty attractive. He may not have a huge wardrobe and production budget, but that means more in his pocket at the end of the day. I expect his concerts will also be affordable when he starts his tour and that will bring him a greater audience down the road.

    The David Cook and Daughtry path is not a bad one to take.

  119. Good luck to Kris, I think that is very good for a small town guy from Arkansas who snuck up on everyone actually!

    “”Again, I think his handlers are looking at Cook and Daughtry ‘“ both very much rock acts, yet neither gets much play on rock radio, and thinking of taking similar tactics “”

    This may be true of Cook but not Daughtry – Daughtry is on all the time everywhere and has hit after hit after hit. His new album already has two or three singles on it that were and still are played often on rock radio, because I do not listen to country much I wouldnt know if he is played much there

  120. I feel bad for Kris, but, I do think the economy is the key factor here.

    Well, I’m long past being tired of this economy, but now I’m extra special pissed at the economy’s obvious bias. I mean, putting the economic smack-down on Kris, yet somehow allowing the cat lady to sell over half a million cd’s?! Seriously, Mr. Economy, your agenda is showing! :)

    I think it just says that because some of the shipments might not yet arrived or something like that. In any event, all the new artists are in the same boat.

    That’s just retail CYA. Nothing new. It’s Wal-mart’s version of “we intend to have this in all of our stores that sell cd’s, but in case it doesn’t make it to all of them in time, you can’t get pissed at us if it’s not at the Wal-mart on 3rd Avenue in Spokane”.

    There is no Wal-mart consipiracy here. They’re intending to have the cd available. They’re just not promising that a truck won’t break down somewhere.

  121. Can we please stop blaming the economy for subpar sales. A crazy cat lady is going to sell 600K albums this week. People have money to buy an album if they want it.

    Honestly, the first week of sales isn’t always a guarantee of how an album will do. Lots of other things will come into play in the upcoming months. As long as radio is sold on Kris, he can maintain modest sales for quite a while.

  122. Hey- just wanted to tell all the Kris fans- don’t let numbers get you down!
    What the hell do first week sales mean anyway??
    If his album’s good, the word will spread, and he’ll succeed. That’s the way it goes, I think!

  123. The David Cook and Daughtry path is not a bad one to take.

    Except that I think those are two entirely different paths. I mean Daughtry’s debut cd sold like 3 million more than Cook’s, didn’t it? And although neither of them gets any love from Rock Radio – Daughtry had several monster radio hits on Pop and HAC. Also, while Chris did some solo dates, he also spent a ton of time opening for much bigger acts. David’s only done the solo thing so far.

    I don’t mean to repeat myself – because I basically said the same thing in the sales thread where this quote was also mentioned. But, I don’t think Cook and Daughtry’s career trajectories are all that comparable to each other – let alone to Kris’s.

  124. While CD’s sales are down, I don’t think that economy is mostly to blame for Kris not selling well. It didn’t affect the sales of other people who sold well including Carrie’s who in the third week her CD is out, still outsold Kris. I do think that if people like an artists music enough to buy it, they will. In spite of the economy some artists still have great CD sales.

  125. SashaB
    11/25/2009 at 4:47 pm

    I find it rather odd how a Jive spokesperson is referencing two RCA (backed) artists. Daughtry and David Cook also had much stronger debut sales numbers than Kris. David Cook sold nearly 200K more albums than Kris did. And, look at Daughtry’s second album debut sales in July ‘” they opened with 269K units.

    I mentioned this on another thread, but I believe the reason they’re comparing him to Daughtry and Cook is because they’re both idol and mainly HAC artists. Yes, DC’s numbers (as a winner) were much higher out of the box, but they grew from there and looking back at this past year, as a fan, I now realize that all my angst from last year was in vain. Jive’s quote helps me with Kris angst. ;)

  126. I mean, putting the economic smack-down on Kris, yet somehow allowing the cat lady to sell over half a million cd’s?! Seriously, Mr. Economy, your agenda is showing!

    Different audience. SuBo’s audience is primarily over 40 and they don’t own iPods. The only way for them to have access to her music is to purchase CDs. If you own an iPod, the first thing you do is select only the songs you want off the CD, so album sales just aren’t there anymore. If you are an extremely loyal fan, you will download a whole album. So, these album sales really measure the level of loyalty you have and the size of your over 40 audience.

  127. Different audience. SuBo’s audience is primarily over 40 and they don’t own iPods.

    So, when I turn 40 next year, I have to give away my iPod? :)

    I see the point, but I’m just not sure that the “age” thing accounts for a difference of half a million in sales. Nor am I convinced, keeping in mind the demos of AI viewers, that Kris’s audience is vastly younger than Subo’s.

    Yes, Kris appeals to younger people than the cat lady would. But, I think those are the fans he’ll start picking up along the way. I’d guess that the first week sales were made up of mostly AI viewers, which I believe to be similar in age/demographics to those that view BGT.

  128. I don’t blame the economy for Kris’s low sales. I blame lack of media interest and media bias. Since the day he won, the media has been harping on “how America got it wrong”. From Lyndsey Parker’s tirade on Yahoo! Music to the Miami Herald lecturing people on homophobia being the driving force on Kris’s win, the media has been making Kris out to be the symbol of mediocrity and all things wrong with American social politics. What other new artist has this kind of burden to deal with? No other Idol has had to deal with such bad publicity over WINNING, for fuck’s sake.

    I have never cared how many albums an artist sells, and I won’t start now. Low first week sales is no indicator of how an album sounds like. Unfortunately, the media has been jumping on this news item and making it proof that Adam should have won Idol. Season 8 is such a difficult season to contend with, because unlike Taylor Hicks’ season, we have a final two that’s pretty impressive and both guys are talented and charming. In Taylor Hicks’ season, Katharine McPhee did not have half the star power Adam Lambert has, and so this whole competition between the first and second placers wasn’t really hashed and rehashed by the media even after Taylor started going downhill in publicity. This season, there are people who are just hell-bent on proving a point.

    I’m disappointed because people are talking shit about Kris when he has been nothing but a class act all season. He doesn’t deserve people belittling his record because he didn’t top the last Idol winner. As much as I thank American Idol for introducing Kris Allen to the world, I hate what it has focused on: sales, sales, sales. New artists do not have this much scrutiny. And although AI does have the advantage of household-name-recognition because it’s a nationally televised platform to launch one’s music career, I don’t think it’s healthy to put so much pressure on someone to ‘top’ all other Idols or sing at the most award shows or grace the cover of X number of magazines.

    I am confident this record will sell well in the weeks to follow. I’m just getting really tired of people thinking this week’s sales is the end for Kris.

    ETA: I also do think people need to factor in that although Kris does appeal to a lot of people in different age groups, his music tends to resonate more with the younger crowd. Younger crowd could also mean fickle, they’re probably not going to be able to afford buying a digital copy and a hard copy, probably have to wait until Christmas to get gift cards or whatnot to buy stuff – their purchasing power in this economy compared to that of older buyers isn’t as great.

    I also wanted to add that Adam’s single FYE – people either have not heard this song or they were introduced to it at the AMAs. Either way, clearly it is not doing well. So what are these 200k+ numbers indicative of? To me this just means people who are not Idol fans are buying into the hype of his album versus actually hearing his single and liking it. Yes, the stream was available for a week or something prior to the album release, but I doubt non Idol fans knew about this, just as non Idol fans weren’t aware Kris had his album streaming on AOL music. My point is, people who compare Adam’s sales and Kris’s sales during the first week are stupid. Adam did little to no promotion of “For Your Entertainment” prior to the AMAs and what impression that song left on people was mostly negative. We’ve seen Adam’s presales skyrocket, and people hadn’t even heard anything from his album. So how can we compare an album that is selling because of hype although paired with a big fanbase and an album that is selling because of a pretty successful single and a small fanbase?

  129. >His new album already has two or three singles on it that were and still >are played often on rock radio, because I do not listen to country much I >wouldnt know if he is played much there

    Huh? Daughtry has released two singles off of his current CD and *neither* of them were sent to rock radio or played on that format.

  130. Although we might question the action of the manangement of both Kris and Adam, I can say with conviction these people are not fools. I am certain they had a projected forecast of what the numbers might be for Kris, as well as, Adam. John Mayer didn’t start out selling 300k units in a week nor did Lady Gaga. If Jive mentioned David Cook and Daughtry in the same breath as Kris Allen, I believe they are showing their respect and confidence in Kris. I think David Cook and Daughtry would be right there in Kris’s corner as well.

    These Idol blogs and Idol, itself, is a strange animal, a bizarre world. The real world won’t be whispering behind Kris’ back about him being the lowest debut of an AI winner. The real world would be lauding him for having a higher debut than One Republic and Leona Lewis. Real world artists, the artists my son and I choose to listen to and respect, don’t even come close to these numbers. Jive sees something in Kris Allen. I do as well.

    I think they’ll be an improvement in sales this week and throughout the Holiday shopping weeks. Kris will benefit as well from Black Friday. It seems he’ll be carrying that underdog mantle much longer than I had hoped, but he seems to bear it with humility and ease. I really don’t think he cares or finds it all that important. I can understand the rationale. The contest is over. He’s won. Whether it’s with JIVE (which I honestly think will be a lasting relationship) or with another label, Kris is making money and making music.

    Belittling him, won’t make Adam sell more albums or any of the other IDOLs. I don’t understand the mentality of those who do because as Adam would say, “it isn’t that deep.” I LOVE the music of David Cook, Kelly, and Daughtry and I love Kris Allen’s, too. I see Kris growing as an artist over the years with critical success and obviously long-term success. I probably won’t be here next year to say, “I told you he’d be fine.” Hopefully, this asinine obsession/past time will be out of my system by then. God help me!

    Slow and steady here, which is ALRIGHT WITH ME. Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate.

    Toska

  131. So, when I turn 40 next year, I have to give away my iPod?

    Yep! Didn’t anybody tell you? You know about the orthopedic shoes, though, don’t you? Goodbye Jimmy Choos!

    The economy may not be exactly helping sales, but it certainly can’t receive the entire blame for Kris’s numbers.

  132. Railing against the Crazy Cat Lady does no good. The economy is a factor, I think. People may still buy the album[s] they really really want, but they are less likely to buy other albums they just sort of want, or are curious about. For whatever reason — backstory, the style of music, identification with crazy cat ladies — SuBo is THE album a lot of people want most. In past years, they might have also bought Kris’ album even though it was a lower priority. This year, maybe not so much.

    Kris’ numbers are weak, no matter how you look at it. David Cook’s debut week sales were comparable to Daughtry, but his overall sales figures lagged behind Daughtry because after the initial few weeks, his album wasn’t the one people “most” wanted. (His album did go platinum, of course, so it was successful nonetheless.) Yes, the economy is even worse this year, but 200K units less? I don’t think so. I think Kris is suffering from the economy, an exceptionally competitive pre-Thanksgiving release window (SuBo, Mayer, Rihanna, Underwood, plus Lambert), and the fact that his album’s vibe is mellow. Mellow is really nice to listen to, but not everyone is going to spend their limited music budgets on mellow. And yeah, SuBo’s album is so mellow as to be torpid, but she’s got the back story.

    The good news for Kris is that he is getting decent radio play, and the album is good, so he may get to do the slow build. Hope that’s the way it works out.

  133. So, when I turn 40 next year, I have to give away my iPod?

    And won’t it be fun when everyone turns 40 and album sales will become completely obsolete. Then what? Goodbye record companies.

    Nor am I convinced, keeping in mind the demos of AI viewers, that Kris’s audience is vastly younger than Subo’s.

    I think this is true as a general statement about Idol’s audience and I think that is part of the bump Adam will see. Cougar sales. Unfortunately, I think Kris has less appeal for this age group. But that’s not to say that I think Kris’ future is bleak. The whole slow rise of Jordan’s career has been her ability to turn the good songs on her album into rising singles through touring and great appearances. Jordin had bleak album sales and still created a blossoming career. I think Kris can do this too. So, I guess I’m saying album sales mean a lot less now than they did 5 years ago.

  134. evanjane:

    That was such a well-written and thoughtful post that I completely agree with. Props.

  135. No other Idol has had to deal with such bad publicity over WINNING, for fuck’s sake.

    I think Ruben Studdard would beg to differ :)

    I am confident this record will sell well in the weeks to follow. I’m just getting really tired of people thinking this week’s sales is the end for Kris.

    I personally agree with you that it is certainly not time to call this game over. And, Kris has plenty of time to improve on these numbers.

    But, the fact remains that Idol winners ARE expected to have big first week numbers. I guess mostly because of the huge amount of name recognition they start with from being on the highest rated weekly tv show. And because, historically, it has mostly happened that way.

    So, while I agree that this does not necessarily need to be indicative of Kris’s success or failure in the future. I think it’s perfectly okay for people to see this debut week as a disappointment. Just because we may have acknowledged some unhappiness with the numbers, doesn’t mean we’re giving up on Kris.

    (Well, Krisfloppen was, but I think MJ already sent her (him?) to banned camp :) )

  136. Yep! Didn’t anybody tell you? You know about the orthopedic shoes, though, don’t you? Goodbye Jimmy Choos!

    Don’t you even say those kinds of things to me! I thought we were friends. It will be hard to give up the iPod, but when they come try to pilfer my outrageously priced shoe collection – well let’s just say I’m gonna go down swinging!

  137. 80,000 was not bad at all. I think Kris album will pick up in the long run. Goodluck Kris!

  138. SpenserJ
    11/25/2009 at 5:34 pm

    No other Idol has had to deal with such bad publicity over WINNING, for fuck’s sake.

    I think Ruben Studdard would beg to differ :)

    Was there really that much of a backlash after Ruben won from non-Claymates? I thought that it was like a Soul Patrol thing where people were solidly behind Ruben/Taylor, but once he started going downhill he got flak for it and then the whole “Clay should have won” thing started. For season 8, Kris never got the benefit of the doubt since he won. He was never given a chance. The media already wrote him off before he even got to make a record. I couldn’t tell you how many articles were floating around the internet saying “JUST YOU WAIT, KRIS WILL FAIL AND ADAM WILL SUCCEED”.

    But, the fact remains that Idol winners ARE expected to have big first week numbers. I guess mostly because of the huge amount of name recognition they start with from being on the highest rated weekly tv show. And because, historically, it has mostly happened that way.

    I disagree. Kris never had the same exposure as the rest of the contestants while on the show, so why should his name be more recognized just because he was the winner versus someone who had so much exposure on the show as Danny and Adam? Heck, people couldn’t even remember his name all the way up to the finale. The only contestants people were concerned about were Danny and Adam because they were the ones who got the most airtime. Name recognition from a reality show means nothing, IMO, if you don’t get the same camera buzz as the rest of the contestants. Who can name the guy who won the season of Survivor that Elisabeth Hasselbeck was on? I don’t remember anyone BESIDES Elisabeth Hasselbeck.

    The running joke of news articles was “Adam Lambert loses to the ‘other guy’ ” – emphasizing the point that Kris was a less familiar figure on the show than Adam was. So IMO, the name recognition thing means nothing. If you look online, after the AMAs people even thought Adam won and had to be corrected that Kris did.

  139. I know…the SuBo fanatics will say she just has a great voice and that is why her album is selling…

    But for people like me that have seen this type of thing before we know that she is only this season’s feel good fad and that even though she is going to sell a million albums in a few days (world wide) that she isn’t reflective of the industry as a whole. IMHO the $10 spent on a Susan album isn’t about her music…it is a lot more about the social conscience of the purchases….but that’s a horse of a different color. And yes, for everyone else it is about the economy, and stealing downloads, etc. etc.

    I don’t think ANY VOCAL ARTIST should be compared with Susan. She is a total anamoly for everyone.

    But yes, Kris is going to have to work his tail off to make it in this cut throat industry. And that may mean, like Cookie and Archie to a lesser extent, being on the road for most of next year. And I don’t know, considering the fact that Kris has a familial obligation and a much more low profile personality if that will work for him. We’ll get to see how much Kris really wants this over the next 12 months….he is going to have to earn his success one tiny step at a time.

  140. IndyMuse—11/25/2009 at 3:55 pm

    I am quite certain this includes iTunes pass numbers. Is this the year for assuming numbers are going uncounted?

    Heh. One of my favorite lines this week.

    I am glad to see that Jive is looking seriously at HAC for Kris—his album seems like it has several songs that would do well on HAC.

  141. I love Kris. i bought his album and I like all but about two songs. i’ve been playing it. Why aren’t more people buying it? Maybe it will be a slow grower? How many people bought Jason Mraz’s cd from last year in the first week?

  142. “The real world would be lauding him for having a higher debut than One Republic and Leona Lewis. Real world artists, the artists my son and I choose to listen to and respect, don’t even come close to these numbers. Jive sees something in Kris Allen. I do as well. ”

    Thank you Evanjane for this!! I agree totally!! He is doing a lot better than many so called established artists – its all about perspective!!
    I am so glad he is with Jive who don’t look at the first weeks sales as the be all & end all!! I feel they would be happy that Kris’s LLWD is continually increasing in spins on radio – ie it “has legs”!!

    I am so grateful to Michael Slezac & Jim Cantiello for the publicity they have given Kris [ maybe kris should pay them some of the royalties!!]

    Another good point others have made is that Kris doesn’t have to sell as much for Jive as his production is less costly , so there’s more percentage in Kris’s & Jive’s pocket!!

    The only disappointing thing for me is that some are missing out on a great album due to not hearing about it. Hopefully this will change over the next few months.?Word of mouth helps as well- lets help spread the word !!

  143. I don’t mean to repeat myself ‘“ because I basically said the same thing in the sales thread where this quote was also mentioned. But, I don’t think Cook and Daughtry’s career trajectories are all that comparable to each other ‘“ let alone to Kris’s.

    I agree Daughtry and Cook are not much alike, but I think Jive is just talking abut pop/rock in general being more of an album selling genre tending more towards chart longevity. So in that way they are applicable to this situation.

    I am glad to see that Jive is looking seriously at HAC for Kris’”his album seems like it has several songs that would do well on HAC.

    ITA Folk. He can do very well there, I think.

  144. Was there really that much of a backlash after Ruben won from non-Claymates? I thought that it was like a Soul Patrol thing where people were solidly behind Ruben/Taylor, but once he started going downhill he got flak for it and then the whole ‘Clay should have won’  thing started.

    I think the situation was fairly similar to this one – but honestly, I just don’t remember that well. I never visited any AI sites or anything back then, so it was a long time before I even knew what a Claymate was. But, there were definitely some press predictions that Clay would come out better in the end. Of course, I adored Ruben, and couldn’t stand Clay – so that may be skewing my memory a bit.

    Granted, Adam’s media interest is probably a hindrance to Kris. He does seem to get a lot of press, including on days when more media interest in Kris would have been helpful.

    In the end, I think it’s just that the music business is a tough one. It’s obviously quite difficult to know what the public is going to get attached to. To me, there’s a lot of solid stuff on Kris’s cd, and I hope it gets the chance to be heard and spark the public’s interest.

  145. OMG, I loooove The Krim Show!!

    “We need another guy to interview with us. How about…Perez Hilton?”

    “No…no…NO. NO.”

    Srsly, I would watch an hour a day of them just talking about random stuff.

    Oh, and as for the album numbers, I couldn’t really care less. Kris and his label are happy, I’m happy! We got a CD full of awesome so we all win! :D

  146. thanks girlygirl for posting latest Jim C + Kris show, That was hilarious.
    His written introduction is so funny too!!!

    thanks for the link to the Sirius appearance. I’ll watch it tomorrow

  147. I’m not feeling sorry for Kris because of sale numbers and adds and all that crap. He’s a very decent singer/songwriter and heck of a nice guy. There’s a place for his music–perhaps not as popular as some, but if he’s comfortable with what he is putting out there and making a living, then I think it’s all worth it.

  148. The numbers are disappointing, anyway you spin it. However to say Kris is over is ridiculous. The only thing this figure really means is Kris will have to rely on longevity and sustained sales, without having the cushion of a large debut. In essence, it means he relys on radioplay, which is the #1 factor in whether or not albums continue to sell past the first 2-3 weeks. If you take Taylor as an example, he HAD the big sales to start, didn’t have the airplay, and his label still chose to let him go, probably figuring (correctly) that his appeal was very limited without an expanding audience.
    So, as long as Kris continues to get airplay (and as long as that airplay continues to effect sales) he’ll be fine.
    Now, whether or not he does get that airplay only time will tell, but so far he’s the most succesful Season 8 Idol on radio…

  149. Another idea to ponder is that Kris hasn’t performed most of his stuff from his album live yet. He had the tailgate party where he played 2 of the songs (besides LLWD) and the event in Napa where he played Let It Rain and the GMA concert where he did Can’t Stay Away (although that wasn’t aired — could only see it on website) Other than that, it’s been pretty much just LLWD all the time. Unless a person listened to the live stream, they probably haven’t heard much of this album. So maybe once he starts doing these Jingle Ball events where he can perform more than just his current single, the people who go to these concerts will have more of an interest in buying his album. He’s going to be playing in front of a fair amount of people over the next month, and it will be a diverse audience, because the other acts on these bills vary widely from concert to concert.

  150. Oh well. I love his album.

    I’m going to think positively: The less people who bought his album this week, the more people will buy it the coming weeks. Hahaha.

    Kris was never the most popular on the show and that didn’t bother me. I am not going to start now.

  151. primeminister
    11/25/2009 at 2:45 pm
    Meanwhile, Adam is expected to sell 225K. Maybe Kris should sell his album for 99 cents too.

    Hasn’t the fact that the cheap CDs actually hurt Adam’s count been explained on several threads ad nauseum yesterday ????

  152. SpenserJ:

    Don’t you even say those kinds of things to me! I thought we were friends. It will be hard to give up the iPod, but when they come try to pilfer my outrageously priced shoe collection ‘“ well let’s just say I’m gonna go down swinging!

    Don’t sweat it honey, I didn’t even get my first ipod until after I turned 40. ;) I have cut back on buying shoes, but then I was never into Jimmy Choos. Hee!

  153. I’m not terribly surprised. A bit embarassing for the Winner of American Idol.

  154. ‘We 150 percent believe in the Kris Allen record,’  she said. ‘And the indicators of radio growth and digital single sales prove we’re correct.’ *

    Did anyone honestly believe Jive would say anything other than that they are fully supportive of Kris? Whether they believe it or not, they are going to put on a smile and act like it’s all ok. His numbers are bad. The worst of any AI winner and significantly behind several other alums. Spin it anyway you want but his album isn’t selling.

    Maybe if he was more of a fame whore and attention seeker like Adam he would’ve gotten more press for his cd.

    Maybe if the CD wasn’t a pathetic snoozer with crappy lyrics and mediocre musicians it would have done better.

  155. Hasn’t the fact that the cheap CDs actually hurt Adam’s count been explained on several threads ad nauseum yesterday ????

    Hasn’t the fact that was false info been explained ad nauseum today? Cheap digital downloads will be counted.

  156. You know I’ve been thinking about this all day as probably a lot of folks here have and it finally registered with me. Kris is #11 out of the Billboard top 200. That means there are 189 albums that sold less than his. That’s pretty damn awesome in my opinion now that I really think about it. Guess who came in with #16 with a DEBUT album…no less than Paul McCartney with 55,000! Now let’s stop and think about this…Kris Allen very much a “newbie” in the music world sold 25,00 more albums that Paul McCartney. Puts in all in perspective to me. I’m loving Kris’ album and it’s constantly playing while sitting at my computer. So numbers be damned…I’ll just enjoy my Kris Allen music and keep up my faith in him and the music.

  157. Don’t sweat it honey, I didn’t even get my first ipod until after I turned 40.

    That’s good to hear, because an iPod-less, flats-wearing Spens is no fun indeed. It’s bad enough that 40 looms so close, while I’m still feeling 30. But I can’t live without my tunes, and I’m only 5 feet tall, so the shoes are kind of a deal breaker :)

  158. skylight1219
    11/25/2009 at 4:43 pm
    I feel bad for Kris, but, I do think the economy is the key factor here. Plus, you have the outrageous antics of Adam stealing the headlines. Maybe its true ‘“ nice guys do finish last! Sure, Kris doesn’t have a great over the top personality, but, he does have one. He’s just chill.

    Clay Aiken outsold Ruben and stole his thunder every step of the way. IMO, Clay is now a burned- out- star. Ruben is still going strong. Give me the substance any time over the flashy artist. I also agree with the tortoise and the hare analogy.

    Too bad most equate success with number of albums sold. But, this is the mindset of most. Sad!

    I think the sales numbers do count in every aspect of life, not just in music, but agree that sometimes they might not be reflective of the quality of the music. That being said, I think since Adam is polarizing and people were writing the obituary for his career following his AMA performance, ‘getting attention is not always a good thing.
    Both Kris and Adam seem like nice people. One can be an extrovert and be ‘nice’ just as being an introvert is no guarantee of niceness, in my experience with people = passive/aggression anyone (and I’m not refering to Kris here).

  159. I’m not terribly surprised. A bit embarassing for the Winner of American Idol.

    I’m not surprised either. Kris is the worst winner of AI. I’ve been an avid watcher for all 8 seasons and even though there have been other winners whose music I did not like I expected them to have a modecum of success and they have. Kris, on the other hand, sounds like the guy that sings and plays guitar at a local coffee shop. People say “OMG he writes music!!” Well so do I and my stuff sucks just as much as Kris’s. He’s an average musician and a boring performer. The only thing nice that I can say about him is that he seems to be a nice guy.

  160. Hasn’t the fact that the cheap CDs actually hurt Adam’s count been explained on several threads ad nauseum yesterday ????

    Hasn’t the fact that was false info been explained ad nauseum today? Cheap digital downloads will be counted.

    I think we are both wrong since noone seems to be sure of which explanation is true – it depends on the interpretation…

  161. Well so do I and my stuff sucks just as much as Kris’s.

    Wow. If your stuff is on the same level as Kris’, I would love to hear it. I’ll probably like it. :)

  162. Wow. If your stuff is on the same level as Kris’, I would love to hear it. I’ll probably like it.

    LOL

  163. Hasn’t the fact that the cheap CDs actually hurt Adam’s count been explained on several threads ad nauseum yesterday ????

    Hasn’t the fact that was false info been explained ad nauseum today? Cheap digital downloads will be counted.

    No one has proven that they will be counted. It is a moot point, however, because it was only a 24-hour sale, and Adam’s digital album is at full price. We’ll see if Kris’s album goes on sale and see what happens. However, I think they only discount high profile artists to get the attention of buyers.

  164. Maria22, two thumbs up!

    Seriously, what does the success or failure of one or other of the idols have to do with the success or failure of another? Unless it becomes a team effort like X-Factor’s Jedward I would say nothing. What good does it do to snipe at another’s favorite? I’m sure they are too busy wirrying about their own success or failure to do anything to effect the success of one of their former co-contestants.

    I wish that Kris’ first week sales had been better and I hope they improve dramatically over the holiday season. But that doesn’t stop me from hoping Adam starts out with huge sales. And it doesn’t mean I wish the other idols who he might or might not better ill either.

    And, just for the record, take if from someone in the show business industry who has seen it happen time after time, sales/popularity does not necessarily go hand and hand with quality. Awful things have found great success with the masses while great things go unnoticed. And visa versa. Fame and fortune are the result of many changeable factors.

  165. Well, “Live Like We’re Dying” will move up to #41 next week on the Billboard Hot 100.

    So screw all this negative shit. LOL

  166. “People say ‘OMG he writes music!!’  Well so do I and my stuff sucks just as much as Kris’s.” — Jericho

    You really shouldn’t put yourself down like that. If you can compare your writing skills on the same level as Kris Allen, Joe King, Jon Foreman, Eg White, et al, then you must be pretty damn good. Just repeat to yourself, “I’m a good writer. I’m a good writer.” Doesn’t that make you feel better?

  167. Well, ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  will move up to #41 next week on the Billboard Hot 100.

    Wow! So it went from 70 to 41? Wow!

  168. evanjane
    11/25/2009 at 7:00 pm

    ‘People say ‘OMG he writes music!!’  Well so do I and my stuff sucks just as much as Kris’s.’  ‘” Jericho

    You really shouldn’t put yourself down like that. If you can compare your writing skills on the same level as Kris Allen, Joe King, Jon Foreman, Eg White, et al, then you must be pretty damn good. Just repeat to yourself, ‘I’m a good writer. I’m a good writer.’  Doesn’t that make you feel better?

    evenjane! I love you!!! LOL!

  169. @jericho: I also don’t understand why you feel the need to put down Kris. Half the people on the radio right now don’t write their own music, and yet get worldwide recognition for it. I don’t belittle those who don’t write their own music, but for someone who understands how difficult songwriting is to put down another songwriter?

    I’ve always respected people who made a point to write their own music and who try to keep things focused on the music. Kris is an incredibly nice guy, and he doesn’t deserve all the vitriol directed at him. All he did was sing on this AI and all he got from it was a lopsided crown, a record he toiled over in a span of what, three months WHILE on tour, and a lot of anger is directed at him for it?

    I went over to the Entertainment Weekly messageboards to read Slezak’s article on the whole thing and the amount of hatred spewed over there by Adam Lambert fans was incredibly shocking. And yes, I checked, and they are Adam Lambert fans, considering every single comment was prefaced with “KRIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE WON AMERICAN IDOL”.

    You can dislike someone’s music but not put them down. I feel the same way about Jason DeRulo. I hate his song “Watcha SAy” and I think it capitalizes on Imogen Heap’s amazing original song, and yet I don’t think DeRulo is an untalented hack.

  170. You really shouldn’t put yourself down like that. If you can compare your writing skills on the same level as Kris Allen, Joe King, Jon Foreman, Eg White, et al, then you must be pretty damn good. Just repeat to yourself, ‘I’m a good writer. I’m a good writer.’  Doesn’t that make you feel better?

    No. sadz :-(

  171. Hasn’t the fact that the cheap CDs actually hurt Adam’s count been explained on several threads ad nauseum yesterday ????

    It’s a myth. Not proven.

  172. Actually quite a few Adam fans bought Kris’ record too

    I am a big, big Adam fan who couldn’t stand Kris during the season and never understood how he won.

    But after listening to the streamed album, I decided to buy it. I love it and I had been recommending it last week after it came out.

    I don’t know why I didn’t like Kris voice on idol and I love his record. It puzzles me, maybe he is not the kind of artist I enjoy live, it happens to me with some artist I absolutely love (like Dido), but it’s ok, recorded music is what matters the most to me.

  173. Okay, I’m finally ‘making’ my family kind of listen to the album, and right away my husband-who can by quite critical- said when BWCU came on, that’s a potential radio hit! :)

  174. OMG I just read this article and it TOTALLY spoke to me. This is exactly how I feel about Kris, being a new Idol watcher and who previously hated everything American Idol.

    Starr, thanks, that made my day. I’m like you, a new Idol watcher who previously…I don’t know if I hated Idol, I couldn’t get into it. Maybe Kris is the Idol for people like us. Kris rules. That is all.

  175. That’s good to hear, because an iPod-less, flats-wearing Spens is no fun indeed. It’s bad enough that 40 looms so close, while I’m still feeling 30. But I can’t live without my tunes, and I’m only 5 feet tall, so the shoes are kind of a deal breaker :)

    I hear ya’. I’m only 5’2″ on a good day. But I’ve never been into high heels. 3″ is tops for me and rare. ;) But hey, I understand the language of shoes regardless. lol!

    Kids dancing to Kris!!

  176. Oh Starr, thank you so much for the Top Idol link!!! I think I love this guy just as much as Jim and Slezak if not more! I love his language lol as it shows passion and for once, someone like that is out to speak for Kris!!! Jim and Slezak can be too nice sometimes… not that there is anything wrong with being nice… :)

  177. No one has proven that they will be counted.

    LOL I don’t think there needs to be proof that it will be counted, that’s what usually happens, amazon digital sales are counted. What I’d like to see is any sort of proof that they won’t be counted. Digital sales are always counted, so if someone is gonna say these won’t be, then show us the source. Because so far there’s nothing saying Amazon digital sales are not counted.
    HDD has made many references to Amazon digital sales and how they count them, even with discount. So maybe it’s time to stop the rumor?

  178. LOL thanks guys. Seriously I was reading that and was like, OMG Am I writing this article? I was totally that kind of reader. Snobby and totally elitist, never gave Idol a chance. The only time I remotely had interest in Idol was when David Cook was on and I thought Brooke White had an interesting voice, except she was just too Happy-Go-Lucky Poppy Montgomery for my taste. Kris has definite indie music fan appeal, especially because his musical taste is so diverse. His album has BLUES on it, for chrissakes. It has a George Harrison-inspired ditty about chasing chicks around. It has FUNK and SOUL and then the more mainstream OneRepublic-ish stuff. HOW THE HELL IS HE NOT SELLING MORE RECORDS?

    Okay, I will stop now. My stan is showing. LOL

  179. Two comments about the Kris thing.

    Maybe someone has said it already, but it really is unfair to compare CD sales years ago and now. It would be interesting to see a comparison with the reality of the changes in the recording industry.

    Also, Kris can take heart. Jordan started out slow, but she has been slow and steady and is doing great.

  180. So what are these 200k+ numbers indicative of? To me this just means people who are not Idol fans are buying into the hype of his album versus actually hearing his single and liking it. Yes, the stream was available for a week or something prior to the album release, but I doubt non Idol fans knew about this, just as non Idol fans weren’t aware Kris had his album streaming on AOL music.

    Those 200k + numbers could also be indicative of the millions of people who heard Adam sing a variety of genres on the show or the tens of thousands of fans who bought tickets to one of the tour performances and were wowed by Adam’s song interpretations, his vocal range and his powerful voice. Yes, the media hype (2012, red carpet stuff, magazine covers) has kept Adam on people’s radar but those same people aren’t going to automatically buy his album unless it’s something they want to listen to. Kris’s promotion has actually been far more directly related to the album itself and therefore theoretically more likely to pull in actual album buyers. Yet, it hasn’t.

  181. LaurelG
    11/25/2009 at 8:14 pm
    So what are these 200k+ numbers indicative of? To me this just means people who are not Idol fans are buying into the hype of his album versus actually hearing his single and liking it. Yes, the stream was available for a week or something prior to the album release, but I doubt non Idol fans knew about this, just as non Idol fans weren’t aware Kris had his album streaming on AOL music.

    Those 200k + numbers could also be indicative of the millions of people who heard Adam sing a variety of genres on the show or the tens of thousands of fans who bought tickets to one of the tour performances and were wowed by Adam’s song interpretations, his vocal range and his powerful voice. Yes, the media hype (2012, red carpet stuff, magazine covers) has kept Adam on people’s radar but those same people aren’t going to automatically buy his album unless it’s something they want to listen to. Kris’s promotion has actually been far more directly related to the album itself and therefore theoretically more likely to pull in actual album buyers. Yet, it hasn’t.

    You’re making my point, exactly. The people who are contributing to the 200k+ album sales are a combination of diehard fans (who love his stuff on Idol AND have listened to his album), and everyone else who bought his album who has not listened to it is buying it because of hype, and not because they have heard anything from it necessarily, considering no promotion has been done prior to the album release, and what has been done (the AMAs) in my opinion did not bode well for the currently released single.

    And how can you say that Kris’s promotion did not impact sales? For all we know, he could have pulled lower numbers without the promotion. There is no way to know if Kris would have sold more without the promotion, just like we don’t know if more people would have bought Adam’s album had his AMAs performance gone without a hitch.

  182. OMG I just read this article and it TOTALLY spoke to me. This is exactly how I feel about Kris, being a new Idol watcher and who previously hated everything American Idol.

    http://topidol.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/kris-allen-might-be-the-most-likeable-american-idol-winner-ever/

    Starr, THANKS for posting this article and i was glad that this guy wrote it today. Like many, it was a bit gloomy for me because of the number. But what the heck, the % of the population watching idol is less than 10 i guess. There is a LARGE non AI viewers market for Kris to win over gradually. It makes happier; there is so a place for an artist like Kris

  183. Maybe Cookcricket means that the “indie” crowd will show more respect to Kris’s album because the sales are not based around “hype” but are from fans who really love his music – just like they do with their indie musicians who don’t sell as well!!
    Of course this may not be cookcricket’s meaning at all – just my take on it!!!

  184. Oh & Starr let me add to the thanks for sharing the Top Idol link!! That’s what i believe will happen to Kris- his fan base will keep growing the more people hear his music!!

  185. Starr,

    Thanks so much for the great news about LLWDand the Top Idol link. That’s an article I wish Kris could read.

  186. Maria22, I think that considering the HDD (or was it Soundscan?) guidelines that were quoted explicitly stated that those sold in 3 forms were not counted if they were sold for less than 50% of retail. Digital downloads contained no such statement. It seems pretty apparent to me that that rule does not apply. That, and apparently a number of HDD articles have been cited stating that someone’s high debut sales were the result of such an Amazon sale. What more proof could possibly be needed?

  187. Sorry Starr, just some jibberish really. But, I really do think that Kris has some potential of making it outside of the idol bubble. Idol has been about ‘big’ voices in the past and Kris is a different kind of winner in that regard. Seeing that people who haven’t been into idol in the past find that his album is good gives me hope. Idol winners have had big numbers in their first week because they are well, idol winners, but I’m actually wondering if things will be different overall for Kris in spite of these lower numbers. The difference being that he’s found as a legit artist in the ‘real world’. *shrugs*. I don’t know if that makes sense or not.

    I will add that I do find DC and Kelly to be legit artists. Of course mileage is always a factor in all posts here. ;)

    ETA: LOL, my kids just asked me to replay AWM.

    ETAA: LOL, yeah what judes said!

  188. Okay, now they’re taking the CD away from me so they can play it in the LR and dance to it-esp. AWM. LOL.

  189. LOL I think that Top Idol article is awesome because it makes me feel optimistic that Kris will win over non Idol viewers compared to previous Idols. It’s ironic. Kris would probably be better off if he didn’t have the American Idol title pinned to him all the time. With the crown he has to be stacked up against previous Idol winners; he has to constantly deal with people comparing him to Adam; deal with being put down for “only” presenting at the AMAs and not performing, put down for low sales compared to yada yada yada. I’ve played songs off his record and people are like, “Who is that? He’s cool” and then when I say he’s from AI they’re shocked. Like Slezak said before, Kris’s voice has never really “happened” on American Idol, considering AI glorifies big voices and big belters. So it’s refreshing to get Kris’s kind of voice as a winning voice.

  190. Okay, I’m finally ‘making’ my family kind of listen to the album, and right away my husband-who can by quite critical- said when BWCU came on, that’s a potential radio hit!

    I downloaded Kris’s CD today and both my husband and I said the same thing. BWCU is the song that could be the smash hit off of his record. I hope they release it next after LLWD has run its course.

  191. LLWD jumped 29 spots on the Billboard Top 100 chart this week — this is after it moved up 22 spots last week. THIS is the type of positive news I prefer to focus on — not people jumping all over Kris because his album didn’t have a great debut week.

    BILLBOARD HOT 100

    LW TW
    20 16 KELLY CLARKSON ALREADY GONE
    21 23 CARRIE UNDERWOOD COWBOY CASANOVA
    70 41 KRIS ALLEN LIVE LIKE WE’RE DYING

  192. Jordin Sparks started off really slow, but look how she’s doing now! I hope Kris focuses on that! He may be a slow-starter, but I believe he’ll do just fine!

  193. everyone else who bought his album who has not listened to it is buying it because of hype, and not because they have heard anything from it necessarily

    By hype, do you mean Adam’s album reviews which have been fairly good across the board, not unlike his tour reviews? And although I haven’t seen it yet, I heard People magazine just gave Adam’s album 3 1/2 out of 4 stars. That might sell a few albums this week or next too.

    And what about Kris? Are you suggesting that all 70,000+ purchasers (I’m assuming a few people bought more than one) either heard his single on the radio and decided to buy the entire album based on that one song or listened to a stream or snippets of the album. What about Andrea Bocelli’s 185,000 buyers? Did they listen to the album first? Or Norah Jones’s buyers? People don’t just buy albums because they like one song; a lot of them buy because they like the singer.

  194. Okay, I’m finally ‘making’ my family kind of listen to the album, and right away my husband-who can by quite critical- said when BWCU came on, that’s a potential radio hit!

    I downloaded Kris’s CD today and both my husband and I said the same thing. BWCU is the song that could be the smash hit off of his record. I hope they release it next after LLWD has run its course.

    I asked my ten-year old son today which one was the best contender as the next single and he said either AWM or BWCU without telling him my choice. Apparently, we have the same taste.

    The Idolator reviewer said that LLWD has no place on radio and now it’s sitting at #41 on Hot Billboard Chart. That’s pretty impressive.

  195. LaurelG
    11/25/2009 at 9:17 pm
    everyone else who bought his album who has not listened to it is buying it because of hype, and not because they have heard anything from it necessarily

    By hype, do you mean album reviews which have fairly good across the board, not unlike Adam’s tour reviews? And although I haven’t seen it yet, I heard People magazine just gave Adam’s album 3 1/2 out of 4 stars. That might sell a few albums this week or next too.

    And what about Kris? Are you suggesting that all 70,000+ purchasers (I’m assuming a few people bought more than one) either heard his single on the radio and decided to buy the entire album based on that or listened to a stream or snippets of the album. What about Andrea Bocelli’s 185,000 buyers? Did they listen to the album first? Or Norah Jones’s buyers? People don’t just buy albums because they like one song; a lot of them buy because they like the singer.

    I don’t believe in album reviews. Half the bands I listen to don’t even get their albums reviewed on People magazine. I don’t think album reviews carry much weight and I don’t believe they move album sales. But that’s just me. You’re welcome to believe that.

    LOL you’re totally misunderstanding my comments here. When I say ‘hype’ I mean that Adam has had the most exposure while on the show (more so than Kris) and there has not been much promo for his current selling album. So if you were a casual or non-Idol fan, you probably still know who Adam is but aren’t necessarily knowledgeable of the stuff he did on Idol, and you are buying his CD, it’s likely you are doing so because you encountered him during his promos for HIMSELF (hype) on Details magazine, Rolling Stone, etc. or other media outlets, none of which had anything to do with his current album.

    To put it simply: It’s basically, for instance, me buying a Them Crooked Vultures CD because I know Dave Grohl and Josh Homme are in it, despite never having heard their material. The fact that these guys are on there and we’ve heard that they are awesome makes you buy the CD, not necessarily because you’ve heard what is on the album. The same can be said for Adam. People outside of the Idol bubble are buying his CD because of what they have heard OF him and not necessarily because they like what they heard on the CD, because they probably didn’t stream his record prior to buying it, nor did they probably like FYE (or know OF it, considering it hasn’t been on radio too long and hasn’t been picked up by a lot of stations).

    I also don’t understand why you seem to be taking offense with what I said. There’s nothing wrong with someone buying an album because of hype. People who buy the New Moon soundtrack are probably doing the same thing. Do they like Death Cab for Cutie and Paramore? Probably not as much as their normal fans, but they buy it anyway because it’s associated with New Moon.

    My point was to say that Adam’s and Kris’s CD SHOULDN’T and can’t be compared, because both have been marketed differently. As for the people who bought Kris’s album, I’m just saying it’s more likely that non-Idol watchers bought his album BECAUSE of LLWD, compared to the likelihood of people buying Adam’s CD due to FYE.

    p.s.
    I never said anything about people not liking Adam, I don’t know where you got that idea.

  196. Yeah Starr, that’s it! What you said too.

    So if I were with Jive, I’d suggest BWCU next and AWM right before next summer. AWM, needs to be a summer hit!

  197. @cookcricket: I think there are good chances that “Before We Come Undone” or “Can’t Stay Away” will be the next single. Either way, Kris will have hits on his hands. BWCU has more of a chance of being the next single, considering Kris gets a ton of feedback from fans (and critics) about how it just sounds like a hit, and also he agrees! Remember the Realite interview with Slezak? Kris said it felt like a hit when he was recording it. As for “Can’t Stay Away”, I wouldn’t mind for this to be released as a single, however I just feel like some people have been magnifying this whole “it sounds way too much like Maroon 5” thing and I would hate for this song to be criticized for it not being “original” enough.

    Personally? If Kris surprised us and released a ballad for the next single? I’d be down with that too. I can see “The Truth” being released as a single; that song definitely has mainstream appeal. I have a soft spot for “Red Guitar” though, and I can already see the music video for it! LOL

  198. I believe “Can’t Stay Away” could have hit potential as well. The only reason I would place BWCU before that is because it sounds as if Jive is seeing Kris as an HAC hitmaker, as opposed to top 40. I guess I just see BWCU doing extremely well on HAC. But, I don’t know tons about radio so I could be wrong. Also, I agree about “The Truth”, but I really, really would rather see a Kris penned song to hit the airwaves.

    I love “Red Guitar”, but I don’t see it as mainstream as the others. Again, I could be wrong.

  199. @cookcricket: “Red Guitar” definitely isn’t as mainstream as the others, however it would be cool to see a 100% original Kris Allen song hit the charts, get played on radio and get recognition, you know?

    And for the record, I don’t get any of this radio stuff either. I don’t even know why Top 40 songs and HAC songs aren’t the same! Not really a big fan of radio, only my fantarding of Kris Allen makes me sit through radio shows in hopes that they play “Live Like We’re Dying” LOL :D

  200. Starr: From what I’ve learned last yr. w/DC, I think we’d be doing well to get a co-write as single. ;)

  201. Really cookcricket?

    Did DC not write Light on or Come Back to Me? I just assumed he did.
    I loved Permanent and cried when he sang that at the finale.

  202. The Idolator reviewer said that LLWD has no place on radio and now it’s sitting at #41 on Hot Billboard Chart. That’s pretty impressive.

    I’m not really sure what’s so impressive about this if people aren’t buying? I mean isn’t that what it is all about? Connecting with an audience? $$$ It is clear that this CD is not connecting. I’m more curious to see what happens to Kris radio play after he’s done with the radio sponsor concerts in a few weeks. Will he still get radio play if people are still not buying? My guess would be no because IMO all the payola will be used up. I can’t see Jive spending more money on a flopping CD.

  203. My point was to say that Adam’s and Kris’s CD SHOULDN’T and can’t be compared, because both have been marketed differently. As for the people who bought Kris’s album, I’m just saying it’s more likely that non-Idol watchers bought his album BECAUSE of LLWD, compared to the likelihood of people buying Adam’s CD due to FYE.

    You are right…..Adam has had no marketing except for the AMA and CBS this morning. Kris has had the round of radio interviews. He also has been on some of the talk shows.

  204. And although I haven’t seen it yet, I heard People magazine just gave Adam’s album 3 1/2 out of 4 stars.

    Sorry, not trying to be…whatever…but it’s People magazine. Those reviewers do nothing but play favorites. When you do read the review, you’ll get that from the first sentence of it.

  205. penzap

    People ARE buying the single. It wouldn’t have jumped 29 spots on the Billboard chart if people weren’t buying it. LLWD’s sales increased 67 percent — 67% !!! — this week. That is a huge increase. Some of that has to do with the fact that the album dropped and he played some major tv gigs. But the sales had had big increases the previous two weeks.

    Once people get to hear more stuff off the album then just LLWD, maybe the sales of the CD will start to increase as well. No guarantee, of course, but it’s definitely a possibility.

  206. penzap
    11/25/2009 at 10:16 pm
    The Idolator reviewer said that LLWD has no place on radio and now it’s sitting at #41 on Hot Billboard Chart. That’s pretty impressive.

    I’m not really sure what’s so impressive about this if people aren’t buying? I mean isn’t that what it is all about? Connecting with an audience? $$$ It is clear that this CD is not connecting. I’m more curious to see what happens to Kris radio play after he’s done with the radio sponsor concerts in a few weeks. Will he still get radio play if people are still not buying? My guess would be no because IMO all the payola will be used up. I can’t see Jive spending more money on a flopping CD.

    LOL labels don’t stop financing artists based on first week sales (especially not Jive, since they backed Jordin all the way despite her weak sales debut as well), nor do radio stations stop playing an artist’s song just because he debuted with less than stellar first week album sales. If that were the case, Leona Lewis and OneRepublic can kiss their radio airplay and upcoming shows goodbye, because they had much lower sales than Kris.

    And what makes the jump on the Billboard charts impressive is that it means “Live Like We’re Dying” continues to get adds by radio stations and its number of spins keeps on increasing, which means it’s really resonating with listeners. If it’s resonating with listeners, the likelihood people are gonna hear the song and pick up the CD are good.

    The upcoming shows Kris has all December will help his album sales. He is performing with some of the hottest and most popular acts right now. From John Mayer to Owl City to Taylor Swift to the devil child – ahem, excuse me, I mean Justin Bieber – he really has an opportunity to resonate with their fans as well. So, yeah, I think the coming weeks will be good for Kris.

  207. penzap, selling 80K is equivalent to people not buying? So I guess Sir Paul MaCartney who only sold 55K should be a nobody at this point.

  208. I really loved reading all the positives that people posted here as well as the awesome links. Thanks and I hope everyone has a wonderful (USA) Thanksgiving.

  209. Wow! It looks like Idol sales consistently get lower and lower each year. I really think the Idol hype is just about over. I really don’t see it even existing after another year or two. Just MO.

    And on another note, Jive has always pushed singles over albums. So, Kris is falling in line perfectly. Sparks, Archuleta, and now Allen all have done well with singles and this has helped them as artists to be recognized in main stream. Jive has never put as much money into the cd sales as singles.

    And isn’t For Your Entertainment now at $3.99 or something? The management obviously wants album sales to be high for Lambert. And considering how much they spend on advertising, they HAVE to show for a large album first week sales, at whatever cost of marketing it takes, including lowering the price of the album. This same thing happened last year with Cook’s album. the last few weeks ads were plastered everywhere.

    The big question. How far do they have to go to make these first week numbers high? The cost of marketing has to be astronomical! Is it worth it? Does this strategy pay off better than the Jive strategy of lower cost to advertising of album versus push with singles and getting the name out there? Who makes more money in the long run?

  210. I’m not really sure what’s so impressive about this if people aren’t buying?

    Think of it this way: when more people hear Kris’s single, which they obviously are, more people will buy his CD (which is apparently the only important thing in all of this?).

    It’s the opposite of what’s going to happen to Adam if no one adds his single to their radio setlists, like what’s happening right now. (/saucy rant)

  211. Same to you, TwigLA.

    And yeah, I felt foul about it at first, but mostly because some Adam Lambert fans are way too into their Glittery Kool-Aid and started bashing Kris about his sales week. But now that I’ve went back to sipping the Pocket Idol Kool-Aid for solace, I figured, what the hey. I never cared about sales by artists before, why start now? And Kris has such a healthy and admirable approach to the whole thing. He said he never tried out for Idol to be #1 on iTunes or hit quadruple platinum, but he tried out to make music. Just the way I like my Idols.

  212. STan “The big question. How far do they have to go to make these first week numbers high? The cost of marketing has to be astronomical! Is it worth it? Does this strategy pay off better than the Jive strategy of lower cost to advertising of album versus push with singles and getting the name out there? Who makes more money in the long run?”

    I would like to know that as well. In addition, it should be relatively low cost for Kris to go on tour next spring as compared to Adam. So it’ll be interesting to see what comes next spring.

  213. Aifan, David didn’t write either LO or CBTM. However, he wrote or co-wrote every other track on the album, especially Permanent, which was quite personal. I don’t think this means he won’t get a co-written or solo-written single on his next album, however.

    Penzap, radio play does not seem all that influenced by sales. The influence seems to go mostly the other way. Kelly Clarkson’s singles were ubiquitous this summer, but her album sales were not even close to proportional to her airplay. Granted, she sold singles by boatloads and had past album sales that were great. There are other examples of radio darlings that haven’t had great sales.

  214. And isn’t For Your Entertainment now at $3.99 or something? The management obviously wants album sales to be high for Lambert.

    It was an Amazon sale for both Rihanna & Adam Lambert at $3.99. It’s normal for Amazon to undercut iTune and other merchandisers to boost up their sale.

  215. It’s the opposite of what’s going to happen to Adam if no one adds his single to their radio setlists, like what’s happening right now.

    WWFM has been added to the no 1 & 2 top 40 radio stations and also to the no 1 Hot AC radio station. So I think it is off to a good start. Nothing is for sure but so far it looks good. WWFM is #120 on Itune.

    Think of it this way: when more people hear Kris’s single, which they obviously are, more people will buy his CD (which is apparently the only important thing in all of this?).

    But they are NOT buying it that is the point. How much radio play does he have to have?

  216. Thanks IndyMuse,

    I thought he wrote those as well, he’s so talented.

    I think a great example of radioplay and album sales not coinciding is the example I’ve heard from these boards.
    One Republic had horrible album sales (or so I’ve read)for their first album, yet Apologize was a huge hit.

  217. Starr: I don’t think album reviews carry much weight and I don’t believe they move album sales. But that’s just me. You’re welcome to believe that.

    So if you were a casual or non-Idol fan, you probably still know who Adam is but aren’t necessarily knowledgeable of the stuff he did on Idol, and you are buying his CD, it’s likely you are doing so because you encountered him during his promos for HIMSELF (hype) on Details magazine, Rolling Stone, etc. or other media outlets, none of which had anything to do with his current album.

    So you’re saying that album reviews published in national magazines, major newspapers and online won’t sell albums but pictures of a guy with a naked girl in a magazine will? Sorry, I don’t buy it. I think you’re selling the music buyer, who may or may not be a casual fan of Idol, seriously short. I don’t think they’re that stupid or sheep-like.

    And, truly, I’m not taking offense and I do understand your comments, I just happen to disagree with them. Well, except the part about the FYE single. I agree that most casual or non-Idol fans are not buying the album because of that single since it hasn’t received widespread play. But I think you are wrong about why people are buying the album. It’s not simply because of HYPE. Oh, the hype might clue a few into the fact that it’s on sale this week, but most are buying it because at some point, either through the show or on the tour, they came across Adam, the singer, and were impressed by him. Perhaps they haven’t heard anything from the album yet, but they liked what they heard before and the album has gotten good reviews, so they buy it. Kris might be selling a few albums off of LLWD but I think the majority of his buyers are also fans of the show and tour.

    As far as comparisons to other idols whether from the same year or years past, it’s not always fair, there are a zillion variables, but it happens. For me, though, I’m not prepared to predict the demise of anyone, Adam, Kris or even Danny, until after a year. Some artists may be slow growers and Kris may be one of those. He’s a talented guy but it’s just so competitive out there and the whole music industry is in flux. So … we’ll see.

  218. penzap
    11/25/2009 at 10:40 pm

    Think of it this way: when more people hear Kris’s single, which they obviously are, more people will buy his CD (which is apparently the only important thing in all of this?).

    But they are NOT buying it that is the point. How much radio play does he have to have?

    Uh, he sold 80k albums in his first week. I hardly think that’s called people “not buying”. Whether you look at it differently or not, he still is the #11th selling album out of 200 albums that are topping and selling. And we have no way of knowing that without such radio airplay, that his sales would have turned out differently. For all we know, radio airplay didn’t make a dent in his sales. But how do we know not one out of the 80k CDs sold was purchased because someone heard his single on the radio?

  219. And isn’t For Your Entertainment now at $3.99 or something?

    Not exactly, but I don’t think that rumor’s ever going to die. Amazon had the digital MP3 version on sale at that price for 24 hours. Which is apparently, something they often do. But no, you couldn’t ever buy the physical cd for that.

    ‘The big question. How far do they have to go to make these first week numbers high? The cost of marketing has to be astronomical! Is it worth it? Does this strategy pay off better than the Jive strategy of lower cost to advertising of album versus push with singles and getting the name out there? Who makes more money in the long run?’ 

    I don’t know that we’ll ever be able to tell who makes what money. We really have no way of knowing what the multitude of contracts say, nor do we know how much each individual type of promotion costs.

    I don’t really like to compare them, because I am fond of both Kris and Adam. But obviously, their labels have different strategies. I’m just not necessarily sure those strategies are what’s being theorized here. I don’t see any quantifiable difference between what Jive is doing for Kris than what they did for Jordin or Archie or any of their other AI contestant signees.

    Granted, Jive typically spends less money up front with the promo, so they can be a little more patient than some of the other labels. But, this “slow and steady” thing is just something fans keep repeating. There’s no confirmation that those words are anywhere in Jive’s business plan. In fact, what Jive was able to do for Jordin and Archie was to get a couple of huge singles right out of the gate. There was nothing slow about that at all.

    Jive’s goal might just be for Kris to hit platinum and have a couple of viable singles. They may not even care about first week sales, and this may not be disappointing to them. But somewhere in there, there’s a goal, and they want to reach it. We don’t know what that goal is, but I’m not going to assume that Jive wants Kris to be the tortoise.

    Adam’s sales may plummet in his second week. He may not be able to sustain it without a big increase in radio support. Then, he’ll have an uphill battle too.

  220. And isn’t For Your Entertainment now at $3.99 or something?

    It was for 1 1/2 days but now is at $10.99 since this morning and is still number 1 in MP3 albums. The price really seems not to be hampering people buying it. I am sure though that it will be taken over soon as Rhianna is still at $3.99 and the 3rd place album by Radio Head is today’s sale Item at $2.99

  221. LaurelG
    11/25/2009 at 10:45 pm
    I don’t think album reviews carry much weight and I don’t believe they move album sales. But that’s just me. You’re welcome to believe that.

    So if you were a casual or non-Idol fan, you probably still know who Adam is but aren’t necessarily knowledgeable of the stuff he did on Idol, and you are buying his CD, it’s likely you are doing so because you encountered him during his promos for HIMSELF (hype) on Details magazine, Rolling Stone, etc. or other media outlets, none of which had anything to do with his current album.

    So you’re saying that album reviews published in national magazines, major newspapers and online won’t sell albums but pictures of a guy with a naked girl in a magazine will? Sorry, I don’t buy it. I think you’re selling the music buyer, who may or may not be a casual fan of Idol, seriously short. I don’t think they’re that stupid or sheep-like.

    And, truly, I’m not taking offense and I do understand your comments, I just happen to disagree with them. Well, except the part about the FYE single. I agree that most casual or non-Idol fans are not buying the album because of that single since it hasn’t received widespread play. But I think you are wrong about why people are buying the album. It’s not simply because of HYPE. Oh, the hype might clue a few into the fact that it’s on sale this week, but most are buying it because at some point, either through the show or on the tour, they came across Adam, the singer, and were impressed by him. Perhaps they haven’t heard anything from the album yet, but they liked what they heard before and the album has gotten good reviews, so they buy it. Kris might be selling a few albums off of LLWD but I think the majority of his buyers are also fans of the show and tour.

    I’m not saying album reviews don’t convince anyone to buy anything. What’s the point in writing a review if they are not geared towards the consumers? What I am saying is that I don’t think album reviews generate a huge amount of sales, so therefore this cannot be an explanation as to why Adam’s album is selling at 200k. A casual Idol viewer may have picked up People magazine and read that Adam’s album was all kinds of awesome; does that automatically mean they will buy it? Because if that’s the case, then that DOES sound like people are sheep because they are told what’s good and they go out and buy it.

    Also, you’re giving Adam too little credit for that Details magazine cover if you think that it was just the pictures that people were responding to. Have you read the articles on Adam? The writers practically want to have sex with him. It kind of reminds me of how the media writes about Barack Obama. The number of adjectives the journalists come up with the describe Adam…you almost feel like Adam is the second coming. People are convinced to buy albums when they read things about people that are MADE to be interesting. Why settle for the clean-cut Arkansas married man when you can get this glittery alien from Planet Fierce with his gold nail polish and his gallivanting with naked models?

    Just read Ann Powers’ coverage of Adam. Imagine you’re not an Adam Lambert fan and just a casual reader and you read her article on him. I’m betting my bottom dollar you’re going to be so fascinated with Adam by the time you’re done with the article, you’d want to have his children. Oh, wait… :D

    And let me just reiterate again, I’m not talking about people who are Idol fans or those who have followed Adam on tour or whatever. I’m talking about the average person who does not know anything about Idol. It doesn’t matter if you don’t watch Idol, you’ve probably heard of Adam Lambert. Not the same for Kris, which is my original point with all this. Someone had brought up that the mere fact Kris won Idol is the reason he should be expected to generate more sales than Adam. I disagree, because as I said, he does not have that same household name recognition as Adam does.

  222. And isn’t For Your Entertainment now at $3.99 or something?

    It was for 1 1/2 days but now is at $10.99 since this morning and is still number 1 in MP3 albums. The price really seems not to be hampering people buying it. I am sure though that it will be taken over soon as Rhianna is still at $3.99 and the 3rd place album by Radio Head is today’s sale Item at $2.99

    And Amazon does these sales in their DIGITAL space (which is the only way there was that short discount for Adam’s album) to try and get traffic attention to their digital market. And they need/want that attention because they are nothing compared to iTunes single sales. Though Amazon’s album sales (mostly physical) are more than iTunes album sales. And Amazon’e album sales are nothing compared to Walmart’s physical album sales. Walmart’s share of the digital space is anemic and not worth really considering, imho.

    Meanwhile talking about KRIS again, I wonder what the second single that will be released from his album will be? LLWD seems to be having some good growth, but if they don’t want to crowd it out and take away it’s spins, it will be awhile before there is another single, or so I understand. BUT all of that being said, if Jive releases the only other non-Kris written or co-written song as the next single, I will be very peeved. Though I do understand it’s gotten some good feedback, but still, peevement would happen. I think CSA or BWCU would be better bets.

  223. Like I have been saying…Kris is, was and will continue to be treated like the runner up.

  224. @Truthiness: I think there is fan consensus that it should be either BWCU or CSA. I do think also that Kris might be shrewder (is this a word?) this time around after all the flak he got about LLWD being a cover of a Script song or whatever, and he might want to go with an original as well.

    I seriously don’t see WAOMF being the next single and I don’t see “Alright With Me” being released this early in the game (and it seems more suited for release during the summer). So I figure it’s probably either BWCU, CSA or The Truth – all three of which have mainstream appeal. They could go with the album order too. LLWD was released first, track 2 is BWCU, then CSA, then The Truth. Makes sense, except I don’t want WAOMF released as single, although it is very radio-friendly and would resonate with the dude crowd.

  225. I will never fathom the logic (from a business perspective) that Adam Lambert’s promotion should be reduced in favor of highlighting the winner Kris Allen. I can see it from a fan perspective, oh can I ever. The fact is, Kris Allen was only promised a record contract. 19E shouldn’t have to weaken Adam’s star because Kris’s isn’t shining bright enough. Give me a break–they’re on two separate record labels. Honestly, Adam shouldn’t even be in this discussion about Kris’s poor sales.

  226. LOL The Krisbert butthurt in here is ridiculous. I remember back when you could first pre-order Kris’ album, and then Adam’s at a later date and people talking about how Adam’s sales were higher.

    So, then Krisberts got their panties in a twist and called Adam fans ‘stupid’ and that the only reason Adam’s sales were higher was because Krisberts had already pre-ordered/had iTunes passes/etc…So when they both actually debuted, Kris would probably have the higher or same amount of sales.

    LOL What happened to that? Where did all these Kris stans go that said they were buying and pre-ordering his album?

    I know there are Glamberts out there that go overboard, but some of you people give them waaaay to much credit xD

    Also, some people in here obviously still do not understand that ‘radio plays’ do not equal the amount of sales they have :) I heard Jordin’s single all the time on the radio, but in terms of sales, she wasn’t exactly setting any charts ablaze, and her latest album sold less than her debut so…..

    I think what this means is, if you’re a Krisbert and it makes you feel better to try to work out some way for you to accept Kris’ low sales and that involves bashing Adam, you go right ahead.

    Or, just support who you actually like and stop acting retarded.

  227. ai_fan
    11/25/2009 at 10:11 pm

    Really cookcricket?

    Did DC not write Light on or Come Back to Me? I just assumed he did.
    I loved Permanent and cried when he sang that at the finale.

    Sorry it took so long to reply to this, but no, these were the only two songs he didn’t write or co-write on the album.

  228. riaspark17
    11/25/2009 at 11:22 pm
    I will never fathom the logic (from a business perspective) that Adam Lambert’s promotion should be reduced in favor of highlighting the winner Kris Allen. I can see it from a fan perspective, oh can I ever. The fact is, Kris Allen was only promised a record contract. 19E shouldn’t have to weaken Adam’s star because Kris’s isn’t shining bright enough. Give me a break’“they’re on two separate record labels. Honestly, Adam shouldn’t even be in this discussion about Kris’s poor sales.

    Uh, are you responding to someone in particular? Because no one is saying that Adam’s promotion should be reduced in favor of Kris. There’s media bias towards Adam that helps Adam, but no one’s saying it should be evened out or brought down a notch to help Kris’s sales.

  229. I do think that Kris’ experience in the marketplace may be similar to his experience on AI. I know that I loved Adam and Danny from the first moment I heard them (and still do, they are my co-favorites). I thought that Kris was a cutie and a heck of a nice guy and did a really good job…I wasn’t dazzled but he really grew on me over time and I began to appreciate him more. I definitely grew into a Kris fan, I bought his album and will continue to be interested in his career.

    I’m not concerned that Kris will not be able to make a viable career in the music industry, but I think how big it is will depend on the quality of his songwriting in the future. He has said himself that he resisted the collaboration process and wasn’t very good at it, at first. He appreciates it more now, which is good. This level of sales may be exactly what he needs, it’s big enough to give him encouragement that there is legitimate interest in him, but small enough to give him a clear message that he has got to kick it up a notch if he wants a career as a high visibility artist. I know he has talent so we’ll see how hard he will work to learn and grow.

    I have no idea how much Danny will sell. I love him to bits and people seem to fall in love with him wherever he goes. I do believe he has a fan base who will follow him into country music. I know I will, so it’s not hard for me to believe that others will as well. I think his album will be very good, and so it seems to me that the key for him will be to get out there on tour with an established, popular artist so that people can get to know him. I know he is working on this, and I hope that works out exactly the way he wants it to.

  230. In fact, what Jive was able to do for Jordin and Archie was to get a couple of huge singles right out of the gate. There was nothing slow about that at all.

    Exactly. And the moment something slowed down they just stopped pushing (Archie never got a 3rd single and Jive is not doing anything now that Jordin’s second single seems to have flopped).
    Tattoo may have been slower than other Jordin singles or crush, but it wasn’t as slow as LLWD and it always sold better.
    I can’t imagine Jive being that happy with 80k for first week when not even the single is selling that much, isn’t this the label expecting 75k for Allison? (yes, not gonna happen)

  231. Houdini_Splicer
    11/25/2009 at 11:31 pm
    LOL The Krisbert butthurt in here is ridiculous. I remember back when you could first pre-order Kris’ album, and then Adam’s at a later date and people talking about how Adam’s sales were higher.

    So, then Krisberts got their panties in a twist and called Adam fans ‘stupid’ and that the only reason Adam’s sales were higher was because Krisberts had already pre-ordered/had iTunes passes/etc’ ¦So when they both actually debuted, Kris would probably have the higher or same amount of sales.

    LOL What happened to that? Where did all these Kris stans go that said they were buying and pre-ordering his album?

    I know there are Glamberts out there that go overboard, but some of you people give them waaaay to much credit xD

    Also, some people in here obviously still do not understand that ‘radio plays’ do not equal the amount of sales they have I heard Jordin’s single all the time on the radio, but in terms of sales, she wasn’t exactly setting any charts ablaze, and her latest album sold less than her debut so’ ¦..

    I think what this means is, if you’re a Krisbert and it makes you feel better to try to work out some way for you to accept Kris’ low sales and that involves bashing Adam, you go right ahead.

    Or we can all stop acting like retards and you know, just support who you actually like and stop acting retarded.

    Relax, no one’s bashing Adam. We’ve been talking about Kris’s sales as related to his media exposure, and used Adam’s media exposure as related to his sales as an example to drive home that correlation. No bashing there.

  232. And isn’t For Your Entertainment now at $3.99 or something?

    No. I just looked at Amazon, and it’s 9.99 for CD and 10.99 for digital download.

  233. Also, some people in here obviously still do not understand that ‘radio plays’ do not equal the amount of sales they have

    Susan Boyle doesn’t even have a single, but she is supposed to sell lots of albums, and be huge. I don’t think she is getting radio play with no single.

  234. Relax, no one’s bashing Adam. We’ve been talking about Kris’s sales as related to his media exposure, and used Adam’s media exposure as related to his sales as an example to drive home that correlation. No bashing there.

    Well, there has been a little bashing, it’s just passive-aggressively done and it’s obvious. I don’t think that there’s a huge amount of it, but it’s still there :)

  235. Susan Boyle doesn’t even have a single, but she is supposed to sell lots of albums, and be huge. I don’t think she is getting radio play with no single.

    I actually wasn’t talking about album sales there, I was speaking about singles because someone here and a site on Livejournal I go to was talking about Idols past singles.

  236. Also, you’re giving Adam too little credit for that Details magazine cover if you think that it was just the pictures that people were responding to. Have you read the articles on Adam? The writers practically want to have sex with him. It kind of reminds me of how the media writes about Barack Obama. The number of adjectives the journalists come up with the describe Adam’ ¦you almost feel like Adam is the second coming.

    Did RCA pay these people? Why do you think these interviewers speak so highly of Adam? Barack Obama and Adam Lambert are both charismatic, intelligent, engaging individuals. Their verbal IQs appear to be extremely high. Adam gives his full attention to EVERY interviewer (not just the ones he likes). He connects with them and gives amazing interviews. There is a little work involved in giving a good interview.

    Why settle for the clean-cut Arkansas married man when you can get this glittery alien from Planet Fierce with his gold nail polish and his gallivanting with naked models?

    Why? For the same reason buyers “settled” on two nice, straight boys from season 8 and bought both their albums. Both Davids were clean cut and had no problem selling albums.

    It isn’t either/or. Most people buy more than one album a year. They could buy both FYE and KA.
    Kris’ low sales #s can’t be blamed on Adam.

  237. Houdini_Splicer
    11/25/2009 at 11:48 pm
    Relax, no one’s bashing Adam. We’ve been talking about Kris’s sales as related to his media exposure, and used Adam’s media exposure as related to his sales as an example to drive home that correlation. No bashing there.

    Well, there has been a little bashing, it’s just passive-aggressively done and it’s obvious. I don’t think that there’s a huge amount of it, but it’s still there

    Not quite sure how you can put passive-aggressive and obvious in the same sentence and it makes sense, but OK.

    There’s bashing on every post here, passive-aggressive or not. It seems one either offends Kris fans or you offend Adam fans, and those are a given. Funny how no one really cares if Gokey is being made fun of.

    In other news, water is wet.

  238. riaspark17,

    I don’t think anyone wish to have promotion reduced for Adam. I don’t know why you’re saying that. As you said they have their own career and I think it’s rather allright how Jives has been promoting Kris. Adam’s name is brought aboard in a media coverage perspective. Adam got a LOT more coverage than Kris and good for him. In my opinion Kris has been consistently treated as a ‘non-deserving winner’ by the medias (when they were not just ignoring him or when they were consistently bringing Adam in his interviews) and I believe that a good number of reviewers have rated his album accordingly. Adam is brought in the discussion to illustrate this difference.
    I think it had a certain effect on Kris’s sales. But I think his album is good and it will continue to sell

  239. Granted, Adam’s media interest is probably a hindrance to Kris. He does seem to get a lot of press, including on days when more media interest in Kris would have been helpful.

    I was thinking that maybe the media stuff has helped Kris. If people like Adam singing and here that he did not win, maybe they check out the winner to here how good the winner sounds. It might help the winner.

  240. tiger92
    11/25/2009 at 11:51 pm
    Also, you’re giving Adam too little credit for that Details magazine cover if you think that it was just the pictures that people were responding to. Have you read the articles on Adam? The writers practically want to have sex with him. It kind of reminds me of how the media writes about Barack Obama. The number of adjectives the journalists come up with the describe Adam’ ¦you almost feel like Adam is the second coming.

    Did RCA pay these people? Why do you think these interviewers speak so highly of Adam? Barack Obama and Adam Lambert are both charismatic, intelligent, engaging individuals. Their verbal IQs appear to be extremely high. Adam gives his full attention to EVERY interviewer (not just the ones he likes). He connects with them and gives amazing interviews. There is a little work involved in giving a good interview.

    Why settle for the clean-cut Arkansas married man when you can get this glittery alien from Planet Fierce with his gold nail polish and his gallivanting with naked models?

    Why? For the same reason buyers ‘settled’  on two nice, straight boys from season 8 and bought both their albums. Both Davids were clean cut and had no problem selling albums.

    It isn’t either/or. Most people buy more than one album a year. They could buy both FYE and KA.
    Kris’ low sales #s can’t be blamed on Adam.

    Jesus Christ, for the nth time NO ONE is blaming Adam for Kris’s low sales! Either my inability to eloquently portray my thoughts on this blog is deteriorating or people are just jumping on what I say whenever Adam’s name is brought into a comment.

    Here is my point and I will state it as simply as I can and hopefully misinterpretation is as minimal as possible:

    Kris’s promotion for his album has been primarily album-related. He did not have any magazine covers, did not have a song on a movie soundtrack, etc. This is not bashing Adam. This is fact. Nothing wrong with having a magazine cover or having a song on 2012. I was saying that of the 80k sales, the likelihood that people bought the album due to direct album promotion (through appearances on Conan, Kris calling into radio stations, etc and radio airplay etc) after having heard the single is higher on Kris’s side of the spectrum than Adam.

    Since Adam did little to no promotion of his album or single prior to its release, his exposure to the public has been more of these magazine covers, and other stuff that is not related to his album. Therefore the likelihood of non Idol viewers to buy his album due to promotion of singles or albums is more unlikely compared to Kris.

    That’s it. Put down your pitchforks! LOL

    RCA did not pay any of the media (not sure how this even has anything to do with what I said), but there is CLEARLY a discrepancy between how the media covers Adam and how the media covers Kris. If you don’t see that, then I can’t really help you see my point. You can call it Adam being more charismatic than Kris – that’s your right as an Adam fan, just as I can say that’s incorrect because I find Kris JUST as charismatic as Adam, that’s my right as a Kris fan as well. Again, might I remind people that this is not a fan site, and I don’t care if you disagree with me, just don’t misinterpret my comments to mean something else.

  241. So I guess Sir Paul MaCartney who only sold 55K should be a nobody at this point.

    I like Paul M., but he’s not on a major label anymore. And his cost more money because it is 2 CD and 1 or 2 DVDs, (regular or delxe version.) Delxe version is sold out at Best Buy online, and you can’t buy it anywhere but Best Buy. Maybe people are waiting for more Deluxe version to be sold? But, it isn’t a lot of sales.

  242. Starr
    11/25/2009 at 11:01 pm
    People are convinced to buy albums when they read things about people that are MADE to be interesting.

    No. I don’t believe people rush out and buy someone’s ALBUM after reading a magazine article about them. They might become curious and go check out that person’s music on iTunes and, if they like it, decide to buy, but few people even go to that effort.

    I’m not talking about people who are Idol fans or those who have followed Adam on tour or whatever. I’m talking about the average person who does not know anything about Idol.

    How many people are we talking about anyway? Again, your premise seems to be that a whole host of those projected 200k+ buyers of Adam’s album are average non-Idol people who are buying his music without at least hearing something first, persuaded only by some gushing article in an online blog (Ann Powers) or a magazine shoot. Or maybe because they saw him walk the red carpet at some event. Your entire theory basically discounts Adam’s voice and talent, making it seem as if both are almost irrelevant. Sorry, does not compute, for me anyway.

  243. Funny how no one really cares if Gokey is being made fun of.

    I respect your opinion, but just please realize that there is more than one potential reason why this could appear to be the case at any particular time and place. In other words, I believe that a hypothesis that there is vast and widespread indifference to him will not be proven true as we get further down the road.

  244. You can call it Adam being more charismatic than Kris ‘“ that’s your right as an Adam fan, just as I can say that’s incorrect because I find Kris JUST as charismatic as Adam,

    The question is who does the media find more charismatic? You stated that the interviewers “practically wanted to have sex with him”. I was simply offering up some suggestions as to why the media might find Adam interesting.

    The answer to Kris’ low sales does not lie in direct connection with Adam’s media coverage. Was “the media” and roll-out really that different for David A? If Archie (as runner-up) could do well with JIVE, then Kris (as winner) should be able to.

  245. As someone said before, Kris had a slow rise on AI.

    I read here sometimes and see people say that. How did he rise slow? He was like everyone else, right? Got voted along every week? I don’t understand his slow rise on AI. Can someone tell me what it means? How was he slower than anyone else?

  246. harmony2009, did you watch the season 8 at all?

    It’s very obvious that Kris wasn’t given any airtime except few sec during his audition and lucky for him that he were in the same group as Matt G during the hollywood week, we got to see a little bit of him during their group performance (to pimp Matt G). That’s all before he had to fight for a spot in the Top 12.

    From there on, he got no pimp spot except top 9 week (when he sang Ain’t No Sunshine). Not only he didn’t get pimped, he were constantly placed in the worst positions to sing. Yet he survived week after week. So they decided to throw him under the bus more often whether he performed great or not. There will be at least one judge there to critize his performance. It’s too obvious that I think ended up working to his advantage… Nobody like to be told who they should vote for…

  247. I think what this means is, if you’re a Krisbert and it makes you feel better to try to work out some way for you to accept Kris’ low sales and that involves bashing Adam, you go right ahead.

    Is Krisbert a real term? Because Glambert comes from Lambert, but unless Kris’s name is Kris Allenbert, I don’t get where “Krisbert” comes from. :)

  248. tiger92
    11/26/2009 at 12:18 am
    You can call it Adam being more charismatic than Kris ‘“ that’s your right as an Adam fan, just as I can say that’s incorrect because I find Kris JUST as charismatic as Adam,

    The question is who does the media find more charismatic? You stated that they ‘practically wanted to have sex with him’ . I was simply offering up some suggestions as to why the media might find Adam interesting.

    The answer to Kris’ low sales does not lie in direct connection with Adam’s media coverage. Was ‘the media’  and roll-out really that different for David A? If Archie (as runner-up) could do well with JIVE, then Kris (as winner) should be able to.

    And your suggestions are well-taken, and I can see why you would think that Adam would make the better interview. Adam is an easy interview. For one, appearance-wise he gives you a wealth of information that you can write about. He’s a Hollywood guy – he knows what to say and how to say it, how to flirt with the camera, the interviewer, give them exactly what they want (which reminds me of his audition tape where he’s asked if he’s the next American Idol and he says ‘I think so’ – and that is exactly the answer one is expected to give when you’re trying out for Idol). Kris on the other hand is too much work! He doesn’t give people the answers they want to hear, he says what he thinks (sometimes to his detriment, as Simon put it during Kris’s audition, when he panned Kris for being too humble and therefore off-putting), and he’s an everyman. Who wants to hear about a guy who’s just like everybody else, right? WRONG. This is exactly my point. They are choosing to write about Adam more because to write about Kris, in their mind, would not be interesting, when there is a big fanbase of Kris’s that would LOVE to hear more about him. Why is it only Slezak and Cantiello who can give Kris a great interview, and no other media outlet can seem to give him the same fair shake? Why can’t Ann Powers, any Huffington Post writer or the dude from Miami Herald write an objective article on Kris? I guess I come from the old school of journalism where the interviewer needs to make an effort to DRAW OUT the fascinating aspects of a person instead of just writing about what they know.

    I’m berating the media for having a bias towards Adam because they consider him the easier interview. I don’t think they should tone it down, but I dislike that they feel the need to talk about Kris the way they do and then directly compare him to how less fascinating he is than Adam. Get what I mean? I’d like to read a Kris article that’s ALL about Kris, without a mention of how the “boy-next-door foiled the glittery alien from planet fierce”. Can I find one? Probably not. This has nothing to do with Adam, it’s mostly my complaint on how the media is treating them differently. I would love for there to be glowing articles of both guys from the same person, but this is rare.

    As for the sales, no, Kris’s low sales have no direct connection to Adam’s media coverage, a correlation which I never made. Kris’s low sales have to do with KRIS’S media coverage, which IN COMPARISON to Adam’s, is not that much.

  249. I dislike that they feel the need to talk about Kris the way they do and then directly compare him to how less fascinating he is than Adam. Get what I mean? I’d like to read a Kris article that’s ALL about Kris, without a mention of how the ‘boy-next-door foiled the glittery alien from planet fierce’ .

    Word, word, word… I’ve thrown in the towel though. I’m so freakin sick of hearing about Adam Lambert – his skin, his hair, his sex pics, etc, etc, etc… It’s flat out unbearable if you’re a fan of anyone else or if you’re just not a fan of his. I just hope Kris can have a decent career because I really like the guy and I love his music. I wish season 9 would hurry up…

  250. LaurelG
    11/26/2009 at 12:13 am
    Starr
    11/25/2009 at 11:01 pm
    People are convinced to buy albums when they read things about people that are MADE to be interesting.

    No. I don’t believe people rush out and buy someone’s ALBUM after reading a magazine article about them. They might become curious and go check out that person’s music on iTunes and, if they like it, decide to buy, but few people even go to that effort.

    I’m not talking about people who are Idol fans or those who have followed Adam on tour or whatever. I’m talking about the average person who does not know anything about Idol.

    How many people are we talking about anyway? Again, your premise seems to be that a whole host of those projected 200k+ buyers of Adam’s album are average non-Idol people who are buying his music without at least hearing something first, persuaded only by some gushing article in an online blog (Ann Powers) or a magazine shoot. Or maybe because they saw him walk the red carpet at some event. Your entire theory basically discounts Adam’s voice and talent, making it seem as if both are almost irrelevant. Sorry, does not compute, for me anyway.

    Nope, never made the premise that the WHOLE host of projected 200k buyers are average non-Idol people. Why would I make that assumption? I clearly said it is a combination of diehard Adam fans of his work on the show (and on tour) and average non-Idol watchers, but my point was more associated with the average buyer.

    Again, let me try and phrase this better: If you have never watched Idol in your life, what are the chances you know who Adam Lambert is? Now compare that to the chances you know who Kris Allen is? Okay, so then the likelihood of this same person to reach out and buy a Lambert album is higher compared to Kris, because Lambert is simply out there more than Kris is, again, tying it back to media, since he has more media exposure, and it isn’t necessarily RELATED to his album (mag covers, etc). That’s hype. And it’s the same for other big pop culture stuff like Twilight. Not a knock on Adam, just a fact. Now, what I probably failed to add is that this hype will lead to people actually checking out Adam’s album and liking it. Kris doesn’t have that hype because he isn’t as out there in the media as Adam is, therefore the chances of people checking out his album are lower than if they were to check out Adam’s.

    baxter
    11/26/2009 at 12:41 am
    Let’s face it’ ¦..Kris needs to release a sex tape STAT!!

    Dude, as much as I think Kris is a hottie, I would not wanna see that LOL just as I don’t wanna see Adam simulating blowjobs onstage.

  251. Lu “Word, word, word’ ¦ I’ve thrown in the towel though. I’m so freakin sick of hearing about Adam Lambert ‘“ his skin, his hair, his sex pics, etc, etc, etc’ ¦ It’s flat out unbearable if you’re a fan of anyone else or if you’re just not a fan of his. I just hope Kris can have a decent career because I really like the guy and I love his music. I wish season 9 would hurry up’ ¦”

    I was a fan of Adam too but not so much anymore after all the hypes and unbearable news/blogs.. It’s a huge turn off.. If the hype goes more with his music, I’ll be ok.. unfortunately… it’s not…

  252. ross
    11/26/2009 at 12:36 am
    I think what this means is, if you’re a Krisbert and it makes you feel better to try to work out some way for you to accept Kris’ low sales and that involves bashing Adam, you go right ahead.

    Is Krisbert a real term? Because Glambert comes from Lambert, but unless Kris’s name is Kris Allenbert, I don’t get where ‘Krisbert’  comes from.

    I know, I was gonna say that sounds wrong. It should be Bitterallens just as it is a Bitterbert or something. Sounds like ‘bitter melon” LOL

  253. As for the sales, no, Kris’s low sales have no direct connection to Adam’s media coverage, a correlation which I never made. Kris’s low sales have to do with KRIS’S media coverage, which IN COMPARISON to Adam’s, is not that much.

    This isn’t true. Kris has been everything. Before, posters kept saying that Adam should be doing what Kris is doing which is radio interviews, etc. PLUS, Kris as been on Regis and Kelly, Conan, Ellen, etc. People just aren’t buying his CD. Who knows what the reason is. Maybe after another single they will and maybe they won’t. But I do not think Kris’s low debut has anything to do with Jive/19’s strategy at all. For some reason at this time there is a disconnect.

    I wish season 9 would hurry up’ ¦

    Season 8 contestants aren’t going away just because Season 9 is coming up. LOL The media might not find a Season 9 contestant that they want to hook into. I think the novalty aspect of AI is starting to wear thin anyways.

  254. Season 8 contestants aren’t going away just because Season 9 is coming up.

    Maybe not but those of us that want to talk about season 9 will have threads to just talk about season 9… at least I hope so.

  255. Maybe not but those of us that want to talk about season 9 will have threads to just talk about season 9′ ¦ at least I hope so.

    That is very true.

  256. I read here sometimes and see people say that. How did he rise slow? He was like everyone else, right? Got voted along every week? I don’t understand his slow rise on AI. Can someone tell me what it means? How was he slower than anyone else?

    Yeah, I’ll tell you my viewpoint of what it means. Basically before top 36 Kris had little and virtually no face time. He was able to make it into the top 13 based on that. Same with Allison, iirc. There were many weeks where people thought Kris would be eliminated, but he wasn’t. There were weeks toward the end where Simon tried really, really hard to discredit Kris, but it didn’t work. All along both Adam and Danny were being championed as the finalist. Was it the first or second week of top 13 that Paula proclaimed they would both be in the finals? I can’t remember. Finally in top three Kris hit his peek with “Heartless” and Simon finally gave him his due. (BTW, all along though Kris was very amazing and I truly believe there were a couple of times he was best of the night, but this was never said by the judges. If this was your first year watching idol, you may not realize that the judges and the producers seem to be manipulating the vote each week.)

    So in the end, Kris’s win was pretty unexpected because he was never seen as what many refer to as TCO-The Chosen One. So really even getting to top two was pretty amazing for him, but since he managed to in spite of all of that I’m not ready to say he won’t be selling albums after one week of sales-which, once again, seems to be following the slow track record he had on idol.

    Disclaimer-in no way am I saying that Adam is not amazingly talented and that he doesn’t deserve his sales.

  257. oh LaurelG I figured out a better way to explain my point:

    It’s like comparing an independent movie and a big blockbuster. Take for instance, Ocean’s 11, a movie that is dominated by an all-star cast. There’s hype around the movie because it’s a remake of a classic (just as there is hype around Adam because he is constantly being compared to David Bowie, Prince, Freddie Mercury, classic rock heroes etc). You heard it had an all-star cast. George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts, Don Cheadle, etc, all people who you’ve heard are great actors (similarly, you’ve heard Adam is an enigmatic performer, can reach high notes, etc etc). But you’ve never seen the trailer or have never seen the original movie of Ocean’s 11. What are the chances you’re going to see it based on this “hype”? And what are the chances this movie will gross more than movies without that same hype?

    Compare it to a quiet independent movie like, say, Once. Won some accolades at the Oscars, but has no actors who have household name recognition (just as Kris isn’t a household name just because he won American Idol). It wasn’t released wide, but only limited release. How many articles are written about Once? How many people will check out Once because of hype? Will they check out Once just because it won an Oscar (just as they would check out Kris because Kris won AI?)? How does one compare the gross sales of Once versus the gross sales of Ocean’s 11?

    That’s my point. The two are incomparable because they are covered differently. It’s easier to cover Ocean’s 11 because it’s got the big names and the flashy plotline, and everyone knows George Clooney and Brad Pitt! Thus, it will gross more because people are attracted by the hype, despite never having seen a trailer or it having won any awards. The same people won’t hear about the gem that is Once, because they haven’t heard about it, haven’t read any articles about it, and they don’t know anyone famous who is in it. Not as flashy, therefore no one wants to write about it. Is it a bad movie? HELL NO. It’s an amazing movie. Is it gonna gross as much as Ocean’s 11? Nope.

    So that’s my point.

  258. I may regret coming out of lurkdom again….

    I live in Maumelle, Arkansas (between Little Rock and Conway). I bought Kris’s CD on the way to work the day it was released (very early in the morning – couldn’t wait!). Our Walmart (one of the smaller SuperCenters) had about 4-5 copies of the CD left when I got mine. (I figured they weren’t through putting the stock out.) I stopped on the way home that evening to pick up some copies for Christmas presents (my girls love Kris, too) and there were NO copies left. I have checked every day and they have not restocked yet. I am really aggravated (this is Kris country!). About two hours ago I went and still no Kris CD’s but they had about 50 of Adam’s left. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving – I doubt they will be getting any restock in tomorrow so probably no copies for Black Friday either. I will find it somewhere else Friday. My point is, I can’t buy it if it’s not there. Who decides how many copies to stock??

    I am not worried about Kris. He is going to be fine. Only in America would being # 11 on the BB top 200 albums be considered a failure (by some people)…

  259. unique28v
    11/26/2009 at 12:53 am
    As for the sales, no, Kris’s low sales have no direct connection to Adam’s media coverage, a correlation which I never made. Kris’s low sales have to do with KRIS’S media coverage, which IN COMPARISON to Adam’s, is not that much.

    This isn’t true. Kris has been everything. Before, posters kept saying that Adam should be doing what Kris is doing which is radio interviews, etc. PLUS, Kris as been on Regis and Kelly, Conan, Ellen, etc. People just aren’t buying his CD. Who knows what the reason is. Maybe after another single they will and maybe they won’t. But I do not think Kris’s low debut has anything to do with Jive/19’s strategy at all. For some reason at this time there is a disconnect.

    That’s exactly my point! Bingo! Kris has been doing album-related promo gigs! He was on Regis and Kelly promoting his single, he was on Ellen promoting his single, he was on Conan promoting his single, etc. He called into radio stations and they played his single. So when I say that of the 80k albums sold, the likelihood people bought his album because they heard his single is HIGHER than Adam’s, because Adam hasn’t DONE promotional gigs for his album other than the AMAs, and I think it’s safe to say that people did not respond well to FYE (on radio OR at the AMAs), and thus the AMAs cannot be used as proof that people liked what they heard on his album and so bought it right after they heard FYE.

  260. @connie0128:

    I am not worried about Kris. He is going to be fine. Only in America would being # 11 on the BB top 200 albums be considered a failure (by some people)’ ¦

    LOL I know, right? But I guess that’s the way the cookie crumbles when you’re an Idol winner or when you come from Idol, I guess. People have higher expectations of how you sell.

  261. connie0128, I’m glad that you come out of lurkdom. You bring an interesting point. If on mid-day of the first release day at your Walmart, they ran out of Kris’s cd and it still hasn’t been restocked as of today, it makes me think that elsewhere it could have been the same and his first week sales are lower than what they should have been.
    I agree with you that Kris will be fine :)

  262. You know, I have been lurking more than participating since the AMA debacle (today started my healing process though, heh!) but I will comment on the album sales situation and will strive to do so by keeping everything in the context of Kris Allen.

    There are some albums that you buy for the entire experience and some that you only buy the singles that appeal to you. I feel that Kris’s album has a some strong singles on it ( I already bought Alright with Me). I feel the same way about Rhianna. I am not interested in buying her entire album but she might make a little money off of me if she has some songs that I like.

    I think for Idols, initial week sales are based off of Idol fanbase support/AI watcher curiousity or interest. Subsequent weeks and growth have to do with more generalized, non idol support. That’s my theory.

  263. Jae
    11/26/2009 at 1:26 am
    You know, I have been lurking more than participating since the AMA debacle (today started my healing process though, heh!) but I will comment on the album sales situation and will strive to do so by keeping everything in the context of Kris Allen.

    There are some albums that you buy for the entire experience and some that you only buy the singles that appeal to you. I feel that Kris’s album has a some strong singles on it ( I already bought Alright with Me). I feel the same way about Rhianna. I am not interested in buying her entire album but she might make a little money off of me if she has some songs that I like.

    I think for Idols, initial week sales are based off of Idol fanbase support/AI watcher curiousity or interest. Subsequent weeks and growth have to do with more generalized, non idol support. That’s my theory.

    It’s a smart theory! It sounds about right.

  264. Kris can’t sell albums and Adam can’t sell singles.

    So little to live up to in season 9. :)

  265. Tony
    11/26/2009 at 1:34 am
    Kris can’t sell albums and Adam can’t sell singles.

    So little to live up to in season 9.

    I know, right? The only good thing they have going for them is they are both hot. Tsk. Season 9, you better bring it in the looks department!

  266. Bad on you media for loving Adam Lambert more! Love Kris Allen!

    Just to add, from what I’ve seen in the last few days, Adam’s taken a thrashing in the media.

  267. connie0128, me too am glad that you come out of lurkdom. Come to think about it, you’re not the first person who had problem getting hold of Kris’ CD though the others who had problem buying it are from overseas. It’s sad that how little they stocked or shipped Kris CD… I wonder why…

  268. Just hope they will at least stock his CDs up on time for Black Friday… Otherwise… something is very wrong…

  269. connie0128, it’s been over a week since it sold out and they haven’t restocked them yet? How frustrating! If I were you, I’d ask a manager about that, but then you may already done that.

    I hope you’re able to find some on Black Friday!

    Just to add, from what I’ve seen in the last few days, Adam’s taken a thrashing in the media.

    Well hmmm, not sure what to say to that. I watched the video of the CBS morning show this morning and saw no lack of love.

    Good night all and Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it! :D

  270. It’s easier to cover Ocean’s 11 because it’s got the big names and the flashy plotline, and everyone knows George Clooney and Brad Pitt! Thus, it will gross more because people are attracted by the hype, despite never having seen a trailer or it having won any awards. The same people won’t hear about the gem that is Once, because they haven’t heard about it, haven’t read any articles about it, and they don’t know anyone famous who is in it. Not as flashy, therefore no one wants to write about it. Is it a bad movie? HELL NO. It’s an amazing movie. Is it gonna gross as much as Ocean’s 11? Nope.

    So that’s my point.

    Yes, Starr, I do understand what you’re saying. I just find your whole theory, because that’s what it is – a theory, um, “less than flattering” to Adam and his fans. Because it implies that Adam’s success is all about the hype and not about his talent or his incredible voice or the quality of his album, which I happen to think is every bit the “gem” that you think Kris’s is.

    Here’s my theory. Assuming the 200k+ figure continues to hold, I think a large percentage of these folks are fans of Adam’s, legitimate, honest-to-goodness fans who loved him on the show or were dragged to the tour by someone and thereafter became a fan or somehow discovered him post-show and were converted after viewing multiple youtube clips. I believe these fans love his theatricality, his golden voice and his musical interpretations and have bought (will buy) his album because of his skills as a vocalist – because he can hit notes few others can and has a power and range that is rare in popular music.

    To my mind, this massive hype you keep talking about has only really kicked in this past week. It may help down the road, but I think most of these projected first week buyers are a combination of his hardcore fan base and other less committed fans who have read/heard that the album is really good. Music is a personal thing. I think people buy music because they hear it and like it or because they like what the singer has sung in the past and expect to like the new stuff. I don’t think hype manufactures “fans” who go out and buy albums. Hype may introduce people to someone’s music, but the music has to sell itself. Unlike a movie, people can preview music and decide for themselves whether they want to buy it.

    I think these are real Adam fans. Kris has his fans too, just not as many as Adam, apparently.

  271. Kris’s low sales have to do with KRIS’S media coverage, which IN COMPARISON to Adam’s, is not that much.

    I keep asking-How is Kris’ media and roll-out compared to Archie? If Archie can do well, so can Kris.

  272. I’ve not posted here today because I decided not to get into any rants.
    But I’m forced to because of what the lady from Arkansas posted upthread. I remember the day of the release, a couple of people from Conway, AR tweeted that Kris’ CD got finished before Afternoon and they roamed through the whole city and couldn’t find any.
    So with what the lady just posted, I’m wondering if they restocked those stores too. On second thoughts, I’m not worried because those who want to buy will definately buy it later when available. I just don’t get it, since lots of people overseas were complaining too.

  273. I was just visiting the comments section over at EW where MS posted a blog about Kris’s alnum sales. One commentor had a very intelligent post regarding the AI audience. Votes don’t translate into album sales. He pointed out that he or she was at a top 2 viewing party with majority KA fans/voters and only a couple of AL fans. He said some of the people had voted against AL rather than just for their fave. The poster said that later those same people were not interested enough to buy KA’s album. They were more about the competition. I have always supported the Idols I really got behind by purchasing their music. I loved Kelly and bought her first CDs. I loved DC and bought his CD. Loved daughtry, bought his first CD, I will buy Jason Castro’s CD in January and I love AL bought his CD.
    The only thing that would have made me NOT buy their albums would have been my REALLLY disliking the album. I would even buy a fair effort just to support the artist I spent all season emoting and voting for.

    As much as I hate to just say it, I honestly think KA’s numbers reflect a smaller core fan base. Not poor marketing, not Jon Mayer, not even album quality,, not itune clitches, And certainly NOTHING to do with AL. I think next week’s numbers will be revealing. If the drop isn’t drastic, I think that will show KA picking up fans outside of the Idol bubble.

  274. LaurelG
    11/26/2009 at 2:29 am

    Yes, Starr, I do understand what you’re saying. I just find your whole theory, because that’s what it is ‘“ a theory, um, ‘less than flattering’  to Adam and his fans. Because it implies that Adam’s success is all about the hype and not about his talent or his incredible voice or the quality of his album, which I happen to think is every bit the ‘gem’  that you think Kris’s is.

    Here’s my theory. Assuming the 200k+ figure continues to hold, I think a large percentage of these folks are fans of Adam’s, legitimate, honest-to-goodness fans who loved him on the show or were dragged to the tour by someone and thereafter became a fan or somehow discovered him post-show and were converted after viewing multiple youtube clips. I believe these fans love his theatricality, his golden voice and his musical interpretations and have bought (will buy) his album because of his skills as a vocalist ‘“ because he can hit notes few others can and has a power and range that is rare in popular music.

    To my mind, this massive hype you keep talking about has only really kicked in this past week. It may help down the road, but I think most of these projected first week buyers are a combination of his hardcore fan base and other less committed fans who have read/heard that the album is really good. Music is a personal thing. I think people buy music because they hear it and like it or because they like what the singer has sung in the past and expect to like the new stuff. I don’t think hype manufactures ‘fans’  who go out and buy albums. Hype may introduce people to someone’s music, but the music has to sell itself. Unlike a movie, people can preview music and decide for themselves whether they want to buy it.

    I think these are real Adam fans. Kris has his fans too, just not as many as Adam, apparently.

    I never said his success is ALL about hype. I did acknowledge that his high sales are a combination of his diehard fans from the show AND the tour (and yes, they could be more numerous than Kris’s), as well as casual fans – all of which love his voice and his stage presence, etc. But yes, I’m glad you FINALLY (LOL) got my point, and maybe it comes off as unflattering to Adam, but that’s the way I see it.

    He did little to no promotion for his album or his single (FYE), and yet everyone is supposed to believe that of those 200k, every single purchase was made by people who knew what every song on the album was going to sound like and loved all of it? How is that possible? It’s just as applicable to Kris. Not everyone of those 80k album sales are people who previewed the entire album. Excluding those diehard fans who bought the iTunes pass and who pre-ordered his record, I don’t think anyone else bothered to invest in an album they had never heard of. However, since Kris did promote his album and his single many more times compared to Adam, those non-Idol viewers had the opportunity to hear his single and get interested in his record. Thus, I can say more confidently that the chances they bought Kris’s album due to hearing LLWD or got interested in his sound are higher than people who heard FYE, didn’t know who Adam was, and decided to buy or pre-order his CD. Note that I say “CHANCES”.

    I buy CDs. I don’t normally buy stuff off of iTunes. Do I preview an entire CD before I buy it? No. Either I go off of reputation (hence the Them Crooked Vultures reference) because I am confident it will sound good or I go from having heard one or two songs off an album. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who does this. Not everyone has iPods. Not everyone downloads their stuff illegally off the internet and burns them onto CDs. Then how does one get a hold of a song? You buy the CD.

    Adam, IMO, has the reputation factor. Since he didn’t promote his album or his single via the regular media (like radio call-ins or gigs) prior to its release, how are people outside of the Idol bubble going to know he has an album out? The snippets were released, the album was streamed, but I sincerely don’t believe those impact people who don’t follow an Idol closely, just as those outside of the Idol bubble had no idea Kris’s album was streaming a week before release. So what then? Who are these people who are buying his CDs? (1) diehard fans who pre-ordered it because they loved him on the show and are confident in whatever he was going to put out (2) casual viewers of AI who heard of Adam or caught him on tour and were confident he would put out a good CD, and (3) people who had never heard of Adam but were interested in him after being exposed to him via different media UNRELATED to his album (magazine covers, newspaper articles, etc). The third one is the one I am saying Kris did not benefit from as much as Adam did, since the media coverage of both is different.

    So yes, Adam has the hype factor, which is why he was expected to sell more than Kris during the first week. Why do you think there are stickers on his album that say it’s the most anticipated album of the year? How is it the most anticipated album if it was never promoted? It’s the most anticipated album because people have HEARD so much of Adam from articles, TV, word-of-mouth, etc. even when he and the label didn’t promote his album or his single. That’s hype, that’s reputation.

    Which is where I use Susan Boyle as someone like Adam. Talent-wise they are different, of course, but both have not promoted their albums, both are making money off of hype (NOT ENTIRELY, okay. I’m definitely not discounting the fact that Adam’s fans are numerous and DO exist LOL – just that their albums are much anticipated due to hype). And SuBo didn’t win on her show either, and yet people know her more than they know the actual winner. So people throwing around the idea that Kris should sell more albums because he has household name recognition over Adam because he won are clearly wrong in the head.

    WHEW. That was a long-ass post.

  275. tiger92
    11/26/2009 at 2:40 am

    Kris’s low sales have to do with KRIS’S media coverage, which IN COMPARISON to Adam’s, is not that much.

    I keep asking-How is Kris’ media and roll-out compared to Archie? If Archie can do well, so can Kris.

    Sorry, I didn’t watch Cook’s season and didn’t follow any Idols before season 8, so I don’t know how to answer that question. I don’t know why you think I don’t think Kris will do well.

    I think Kris will do well; he has growing power outside of the Idol bubble, and his upcoming Christmas gigs are going to help his sales tremendously. So yeah, no big deal LOL

    All I’m pointing out to you and LaurelG is that Adam has the advantage of hype – if you disagree with that, then clearly we’ve been watching the wrong season. If you ask anyone what was memorable about this season, including MJ, they will say it would have been a different season without Adam Lambert. Is there anything wrong with this? No, of course not. He has a big personality, so understandably he got more airtime than any other Idol contestant during his season, save, maybe, Danny Gokey. Which is why I keep saying the media attention on Adam is NOT unwarranted. I’m not asking for it to be dialed down nor am I saying he didn’t deserve it.

    My point has more to do with Kris than with Adam. He was never given the benefit of the doubt by the media. It would have been nice if they were able to give as much enthusiasm in covering Kris as they did covering Adam. But the problem is the media doesn’t think Kris is interesting enough, even though certain people in the media, like Jim Cantiello and Michael Slezak, have certainly been successful in revealing much more of Kris than American Idol could or any newspaper outlet bothered to write about.

    And they (the media) have certainly made predictions that built up Adam’s hype. Don’t tell me you guys haven’t read anything that said “Just you wait, Adam will outshine Kris Allen and he will sell more records” even before either of them started recording. If you didn’t think these articles existed in a vast quantity, then clearly I’m going delusional. There were constant comparisons of Kris to Taylor Hicks and Ruben (even before Kris started recording). Heck, I remember going to Entertainment Weekly the night of the finale and people were lambasting Kris and declaring that he will be the worst American Idol winner ever! And he didn’t even start day one of his American Idol reign yet!

    Don’t tell me you guys didn’t hear about people saying Adam was going to put out the best glam rock album ever, that he was going to be bigger than Queen, bigger than KISS, etc. Why do you think people were surprised he released “For Your Entertainment” – a single that sounds as Glam Rock as Miley Cyrus sounds like Metal music? If you don’t think hype has anything to do with Adam’s album sales, then you’re never going to be able to understand where I’m coming from.

    That said, it’s been an excellent discussion, ladies (and genlemen?) and I hope to continue this at another time, as I am exhausted from all the long-winded posting LOL. Adieu.

  276. Oh yeah, sorry about the triple posting, but the site wouldn’t let me edit anymore. In response to Jae: I agree that Kris has a smaller core fanbase. But I don’t think it’s right to suppose that everyone else who voted for Kris who weren’t hardcore fans only voted to spite Adam. You leave out the ones who genuinely enjoyed Kris’s performance on Idol but aren’t attached to him post-Idol. I know a couple of people who threw votes Kris’s way after “Heartless”, and they aren’t regular AI watchers. They just heard about it after it was performed and Youtubed it (Heartless got a lot of attention outside the Idol bubble after that performance), thought he did a good job and decided to vote a lot for him after that. Similarly, Kris got a lot of votes from people who were fans (or stans) of the other eliminated Idols, with Kris being their second favorite. Among all the eliminated Idols, the only fanbase who was most likely to move over to support Adam would be Allison’s. Everyone else was probably more likely to have moved over to vote for Kris. These same people are probably not stanning Kris post-Idol and probably didn’t contribute much to his first week sales either.

    Just a few more thoughts to think about. :)

  277. “Adam’s taken a thrashing in the media.”
    errrr not really. Most media outlets’ (aside from conservative ones) reactions were excited to lukewarm to his AMA performances, but he wasn’t thrashed by a long shot. It was mainly here at Mj’s or other simillar blogs or forums were he received severe negative feedback about AMA. Then followed the GMA incident, which garnered ‘Adam’s a victim’ sympathy from media outlets. Where’s the Adam thrashing?

    Anyways, about Kris, I’m not worried. His numbers will grow, slowly but steadily (be it in singles or albums). And with whatever talent he has, along with his songwriting ability, his musical sense, he’s got great staying power.

    And come Febuary, his fanbase will grow. I think alot of people can attest to the fact that Kris puts on a brilliant live performance with great twists & turns instored for the audience. I think most ppl leave his shows pleasantly surprised about his vocal talent & Kris as a performer.

  278. Kris has definite indie music fan appeal, especially because his musical taste is so diverse. His album has BLUES on it, for chrissakes. It has a George Harrison-inspired ditty about chasing chicks around. It has FUNK and SOUL and then the more mainstream OneRepublic-ish stuff. HOW THE HELL IS HE NOT SELLING MORE RECORDS?

    Well, you just answered your own question, didn’t you? He has “*indie* music-fan appeal”!!! Uh … have you noticed that indies often don’t sell much? And that they virtually never sell as much as pop people and elevator-music people?

    Boom Boom Pow sells 4 and a half *million* downloads. Josh Groban’s very middle-of-the-road Christmas album sells millions and millions …. Those are pretty high-quality examples of pop and elevator, I’d say, but they’re totally totally totally middle of the road. Virtually *everything* that’s a bit more quirky or off the beaten track is a *niche* market, and the whole nature of niches is that they don’t sell as well!

    But the Idol world and a lot of the public and the media totally disdain all niches. That’s why we hear so much crap about how a lot of the Idols are now such big failures and “disappointments” after their runs. Ruben, Fantasia, even Blake, who has put out what I think are pretty good albums in his genre, and plenty more. They are niche-type people, although none of this group are what you’d call singer-songwriter indie; but they are in niches of their own. And niches just don’t sell as much.

    Kris is more niche-y than many others. So he probably won’t sell millions and millions, because while niche folks occasionally do — and maybe Kris has some shot, because he’s a bit poppy *in* his niche — the vast majority of the time, they don’t…. But the lower sales have, like, zero reflection on the abilities of somebody with a niche-y style. Many such people are actually *better* musicians than the average person who’s a big mainstream success. I mean, Britney, anyone? And Susan Boyle? They’re mainstream and sell well, but while they’re not untalented, they certainly aren’t the musicians of the century either.

    Kris is going to be fine. He can have a career in music now. That’s a way better position than he was in a year ago.

    It’s just that, in the Idol-world (and among the average non-music-loving member of the public and the lazy in the media), all we ever hear is that everybody who doesn’t sell multiplatinum is a failure. Sometimes even fans of less-than-mainstream idols bash *other* less-than-mainstream idols for the same thing — until they find out that, hey, the same thing happens to *their* idol.

    But being indie-ish can be a very good thing, too, because while your audience may not be huge, it can actually be longer lasting, because the people who like you actually like you for the music you make, not just because you’re the current fad.

  279. For those complaining about the lack of hype for Kris, how exactly is the media supposed to hype him anyway? Kris hates promoting himself. He said himself that he’d prefer nobody talk about him at all. If I were the PR department of Jive, I’d be pulling my hair out by now. The only time Kris gives good interviews is with Slezak and Jim (and okay, I’ll add in Ellen but that’s because Ellen is a good interviewer). With other interviewers, he’s just plain boring or uncomfortable as hell (unless he had his buddy Lambert beside him).

    The 80K first week sales is disheartening, but only in that he’ll be labeled as ‘lowest selling winner’ for now (like Jordin was). But I think that Kris’ ego can take that (much more than his fans actually). I suspect that the fans are more butthurt than Kris about this.

    But what Kris has got going for him is that he’s a talented songwriter and he does have a good Cd with several songs that can be released as singles (which will generate sales of the album). If I were Jive, I’d start hawking some songs for tie-ups with TV shows. I think that would be good promo for him, without Kris needing to get out there himself (since he seems to hate that IMO).

    I personally won’t fault Jive for promo. They have been great with him. They got him on both morning and evening TV, and he has great radio promo right now – Kris is even going on a Christmas concert tour basically, and I am looking forward to concert after concert of youtube videos.

  280. But they are NOT buying it that is the point. How much radio play does he have to have?

    Radio play works to sell songs but you need a lot of it to *really* push the songs into big sales. It really looks as if people need to hear the song several times before they feel they can’t live without it and buy it. … So, really, I think we’re definitely seeing the *beginnings* of that with Kris … The LLWD sales are becoming more solid as the weeks go on, and that’s clearly indicative that, as people hear the song over and over, they do like it, and buy.

    Jordin’s songs that have sold well, for example, went very high on the charts pretty quickly — and what that meant was that a lot of people were hearing them a *lot.* So with repeated hearings, they bought.

    Elliott, the Idol I’m most familiar with, saw a much much slower trajectory with his big single, Wait for You. However, as it gradually climbed the charts, sales stayed steady and then, when the song finally passed some kind of critical-mass point, getting high enough on the charts, his sales really took off.

    What Kris needs now is more stations playing LLWD. Currently, he’s got fewer stations playing the song than most of the other songs that are right around him on the BB list (which is based on number of spins of the song, not number of stations.), and that’s holding his sales back because not as many new people are being exposed to the song. …. He’s clearly selling in the markets where the song is being played, but I woudl bet that what they’re probably trying to do now is push him to additional markets, to get that station number up there. If he can get that exposure in additional cities, then his sales will rise — because we see that the song does sell when people hear it; it’s just that not a huge number of cities are hearing it right now.

  281. It isn’t either/or. Most people buy more than one album a year. They could buy both FYE and KA.

    You certainly can. I did! I’ll bet a lot of people did. Just because one of these guys is to your taste doesn’t mean that the other is not. ….

    I have eclectic musical taste and I think these are both very solid albums by guys whose voices I like. (well, I like the *guys*, too, I admit…)

    But I really can’t see how promotion for one in any way takes away from promotion for the other. if anything, I would think that promoting one guy would remind people aware of Idol, at least, that, hey, the other guy is out there, too — let me check his stuff out!

  282. In other news, Kris Allen (the album) is finally available here in the Philippines. I bought it the moment I saw it. Epic fail on the distributor here in my country. 2 weeks late? WTF?

    I hope does well here so that a Kris Allen concert is made possible. If they release the ballads from his album he is going to be huge!!!

  283. Anyway, there is no denying that Kris’ album sales so far has been dismal compared to the other idols. I see no point in trying to discern the implications of such. That would just be too much stress. I just hope he does well enough to satisfy his label. His music speaks for itself. As a fan, I am more than happy with what he put out. That’s good enough for me.

  284. @Starr 11/26/2009 at 4:44 am:

    I agree (only I think a lot of Allison’s fans votes would have gone to Kris, because her fans would have wanted to eliminate Gokey. She totally smoked him Rock Week, and the judges pushed her under the bus). I don’t think there was as much “anybody but the gay guy” voting as people think. There was a definitely subversive element at play, though, against all the manipulations. I think Kris was a lot of people’s second favorite, and he also got the anti-establishment vote.

  285. So people throwing around the idea that Kris should sell more albums because he has household name recognition over Adam because he won are clearly wrong in the head.

    It’s very simple. Kris WON AI, so by definition, he should be the most popular among the around 25 million or so viewers who participated in this singing competition. That expectation comes from winning and it is usually correct. This will be only the second time in 8 seasons where the runner-up has outsold the winner, so on average, it appears that the winner normally sells the most CDs, validating the ‘contest’ .

    If you ask anyone what was memorable about this season, including MJ, they will say it would have been a different season without Adam Lambert. Is there anything wrong with this? No, of course not. He has a big personality, so understandably he got more airtime than any other Idol contestant during his season, save, maybe, Danny Gokey. Which is why I keep saying the media attention on Adam is NOT unwarranted. I’m not asking for it to be dialed down nor am I saying he didn’t deserve it.

    I agree that Adam did receive a lot of ‘hype’ , but would disagree that it was solely for having a ‘big personality’ . There are numerous public statements of praise from the producers with whom Adam worked and the only attribute that was mentioned was his stellar vocal talent and musicianship. Adam’s personality, stylish wardrobe or ‘image’  simply enhance someone who’s main reason for attention is his talent.

    Similarly, Kris got a lot of votes from people who were fans (or stans) of the other eliminated Idols, with Kris being their second favorite. Among all the eliminated Idols, the only fanbase who was most likely to move over to support Adam would be Allison’s. Everyone else was probably more likely to have moved over to vote for Kris. These same people are probably not stanning Kris post-Idol and probably didn’t contribute much to his first week sales either.

    I think that this is a significant reason for Kris winning AI, but having a rather small core fanbase (as shown by his first week’s sales). When Danny was eliminated, it’s reasonable to speculate that the bulk of his support was transferred to Kris for a number of reasons, including a large number of fundamentalist voters who were encouraged to vote against Adam (for obvious reasons). Now that Danny has his own recording contract, the fans among Danny’s supporters on AI will be able to support him directly by buying his music.

    As much as I hate to just say it, I honestly think KA’s numbers reflect a smaller core fan base. Not poor marketing, not Jon Mayer, not even album quality,, not itune clitches, And certainly NOTHING to do with AL. I think next week’s numbers will be revealing. If the drop isn’t drastic, I think that will show KA picking up fans outside of the Idol bubble.

    I agree. There’s no other way to interpret these sales figures that makes any sense.

    That’s exactly my point! Bingo! Kris has been doing album-related promo gigs! He was on Regis and Kelly promoting his single, he was on Ellen promoting his single, he was on Conan promoting his single, etc. He called into radio stations and they played his single. So when I say that of the 80k albums sold, the likelihood people bought his album because they heard his single is HIGHER than Adam’s, because Adam hasn’t DONE promotional gigs for his album other than the AMAs,

    So you are theorizing that Kris’ first week’s sales numbers are a combined total from both his core AI fanbase and fans that he has acquired due to radioplay of LLWD? If that’s true, then Kris’ core AI fanbase is even smaller than anyone would have imagined, and that supports the arguments that a large proportion of Kris’ AI votes came from viewers who voted for him for reasons other than liking his music and supporting him for that reason.

  286. Anyway, there is no denying that Kris’ album sales so far has been dismal compared to the other idols. I see no point in trying to discern the implications of such. That would just be too much stress. I just hope he does well enough to satisfy his label. His music speaks for itself. As a fan, I am more than happy with what he put out. That’s good enough for me.

    I think he will. One thing I’ve liked about Jive’s management style is that while I think they haven’t spent quite as much on advertizing him/pushing him than other companies do their idols, they’re also not wasting the money in areas of promotion that don’t really suit the kind of artist that Kris is and may not have been much benefit to him.

    While the co-writes, recording sessions and music video do cost money, I’d imagine that overall, they’ve spent quite a bit less on him than other idols, and really, the next album could be even less (if they allow him to solo write and play his own instruments more, for example.) And his tour would probably be fairly cost-effective as well, especially if he goes the David Cook route.

    Sales are important, but the bottom line is profit. Even moderate sales can be profitable for less costly artists. I’m sure Jive understands that.

  287. Sales are important, but the bottom line is profit. Even moderate sales can be profitable for less costly artists. I’m sure Jive understands that.

    Although I’m sure that Jive would have preferred higher first week sales of Kris’ CD, I have a feeling that the modest sales have not come as any surprise to them. They have access to presale information from retailers, and their economic use of promotional funds probably reflects the fact that they knew Kris’ sales were likely to be modest, not just first week, but in total and unlike other AI winners, they could not rely on the buffer of high sales from a large AI fanbase to cushion costs for making the CD. As you said, the bottom line is profit, and it appears that they spent money to produce as high quality a CD as possible in an effort to promote Kris, and are hoping that will be sufficient for Kris to earn them a reasonable profit.

  288. If Kris has a good tour next year, maybe colleges like Cookie, or as an opener for somebody more established in something close to Kris’s style, he can gradually pick up fans that way. …. Kris now has a music career. It could still take off quite well, in my opinion.

    But even if it stays modest, he can keep that music career. Even if he eventually gravitates to a smaller label, including to an indie label, that is far far far far far from the end of the world. Just ask the hundreds of other musicians on the smaller labels who are making a living making their music.

    And because Kris has his own vibe going, is clearly a creative guy, and is a good musician, and is young and will keep growing, he can gradually gather himself a loyal following that will stick with him for years. That’s one of the virtues of not being the pop- or easy-listening person of the moment. You may not attract as many people, but the ones you attract, you tend to keep.

    There’s a reason why you don’t hear many former Idol finalists complaining much, no matter where they have ended up label-wise and so forth. If you are a smart, hard-working person with a good musical persona — and Kris is — you can spend your life and make your living making *music.* All over the country and all over the world, perhaps. And a whole lot of them are doing that. Kris will be one of those, too. And, who knows, maybe he’ll have one of those careers that explodes down the line? That happens, too, especially among indie-type, songwriter types.

    I’m sorry he didn’t sell more this week, and, given that he won the show, I’m guessing that a significant portion of those who voted for him didn’t buy his album. That’s a bummer — and they should have, because I think most would find it quite enjoyable. But now he’s got a shot that he never would have had before. He’ll do fine. We’ll hear of him for a long time, I’m sure.

  289. lucy
    11/26/2009 at 7:01 am
    Kris has definite indie music fan appeal, especially because his musical taste is so diverse. His album has BLUES on it, for chrissakes. It has a George Harrison-inspired ditty about chasing chicks around. It has FUNK and SOUL and then the more mainstream OneRepublic-ish stuff. HOW THE HELL IS HE NOT SELLING MORE RECORDS?

    Well, you just answered your own question, didn’t you? He has ‘*indie* music-fan appeal’ !!! Uh ‘ ¦ have you noticed that indies often don’t sell much? And that they virtually never sell as much as pop people and elevator-music people?

    When I say he has indie music fan appeal, I’m not saying the indie music fans are buying his record, because they aren’t, so no – what you’re saying doesn’t apply, but you are correct that indie artists do not typically generate a ton of sales. What I mean by Kris having indie music fan appeal is that the stuff he has on his album are ones that usually interest that type of crowd, and so his appeal is much wider than the typical American Idol winner. However, American Idol has too much of a stigma attached to it for these people to bother buying an Idol contestant’s record, let alone give it a listen.

    Boom Boom Pow sells 4 and a half *million* downloads. Josh Groban’s very middle-of-the-road Christmas album sells millions and millions ‘ ¦. Those are pretty high-quality examples of pop and elevator, I’d say, but they’re totally totally totally middle of the road. Virtually *everything* that’s a bit more quirky or off the beaten track is a *niche* market, and the whole nature of niches is that they don’t sell as well!

    But the Idol world and a lot of the public and the media totally disdain all niches. That’s why we hear so much crap about how a lot of the Idols are now such big failures and ‘disappointments’  after their runs. Ruben, Fantasia, even Blake, who has put out what I think are pretty good albums in his genre, and plenty more. They are niche-type people, although none of this group are what you’d call singer-songwriter indie; but they are in niches of their own. And niches just don’t sell as much.

    Kris is more niche-y than many others. So he probably won’t sell millions and millions, because while niche folks occasionally do ‘” and maybe Kris has some shot, because he’s a bit poppy *in* his niche ‘” the vast majority of the time, they don’t’ ¦. But the lower sales have, like, zero reflection on the abilities of somebody with a niche-y style. Many such people are actually *better* musicians than the average person who’s a big mainstream success. I mean, Britney, anyone? And Susan Boyle? They’re mainstream and sell well, but while they’re not untalented, they certainly aren’t the musicians of the century either.

    Actually you raised the point I was going to raise, however we disagree that he is more niche-oriented. That’s the thing that bothers me with the media coverage of this album. This album, IMO, has something for everyone. As I mentioned, there are songs that would appeal to indie music fans; songs that are more radio-friendly and have definite commercial appeal that would appeal to Boom-Boom Pow Pow fans (LOL I hate that song), and then songs that would appeal to the teenybopper fanbase, the more adult fan base, etc etc. So if it has something for everyone, the question is NOT why it isn’t selling well during its first week (because first week sales is not indicative of how an Idol album sells outside the Idol bubble; first week sales are fanbase-generated mostly) but why it isn’t garnering any coverage (and any POSITIVE coverage) from the media AS MUCH as Adam’s is. What positive qualities people can find in Adam’s album, they can find positive ones in Kris’s too, however as is the case, it tends to be more so the first half that is accomplished.

    I can’t tell you how annoying it is to have to go through an entire article about how someone feels like Kris shouldn’t have won, then go into what his album sounds like and how boring they think it is and therefore it’s a reflection of WHY he shouldn’t have won Idol, and then segueway into, “on the other side of the spectrum, Adam Lambert, the most exciting Idol contestant ever to grace the stage and who many consider to be the REAL Idol winner, his album…” and then they launch into a whole thing about how his album is all sorts of awesome. Now, I don’t doubt it’s a good record (although I personally only like a few songs, like I said, to each his own), however like I’ve been saying all this time, the media bias is glaring. Even when both guys shouldn’t be compared musically because they are NOTHING alike, the media insists on highlighting one album over another, and it’s usually Adam’s.

    But being indie-ish can be a very good thing, too, because while your audience may not be huge, it can actually be longer lasting, because the people who like you actually like you for the music you make, not just because you’re the current fad.

    I agree with this.

  290. ;)
    Kris almost had Jive biggest debut of the year so far (from Pulse)

    1. Ciara – Fantasy Ride 80,890
    2. Kris Allen ‘“ Kris Allen ‘“ 80,072 <———————
    3. Three Days Grace ‘“ Life Starts Now ‘“ 79,230
    4. Charlie Wilson – Uncle Charlie – 58,110
    5. Jordin Sparks ‘“ Battlefield ‘“ 47,637
    6. Backstreet Boys ‘“ This Is Us ‘“ 41,546
    7. Relient K ‘“ Forget And Not Slowing Down ‘“ 33,940
    8. Britney Spears ‘“ Singles Collection ‘“ 26,818
    9. Bowling for Soup – Sorry for Partyin' – less than 6,000

  291. Compared to other Jive artists, Kris had a good week. Sorry, I can’t post the numbers but he did fine. He actually had the second best opening numbers of a Jive artist this year.

  292. What I mean by Kris having indie music fan appeal is that the stuff he has on his album are ones that usually interest that type of crowd, and so his appeal is much wider than the typical American Idol winner. However, American Idol has too much of a stigma attached to it for these people to bother buying an Idol contestant’s record, let alone give it a listen.

    Well, yeah.

    But that’s why I say we should just give the guy — and the public — some time. For one thing, I don’t think the Idol stigma is quite what it used to be, except in rock, I guess. Various people seem to me to be looking pretty acceptable to markets outside of the mainstream in the past few years.

    The oft-mentioned Ruben and Fantasia, for example, have won over non-Idol niches, not the white-people indie one, but nevertheless, their niches have been skeptical, too. There are so many Idols out there now, and so many prove again and again that they can really sing and perform that I really expect the stigma to gradually fade (of course, maybe I’m kidding myself!). I think you really are hearing nicer things from the music community these days about Idol alums. I truly don’t think that country is the only major niche market that’s eventually going to be prepared to embrace some of these folks wholeheartedly.

    Of course, many Idol fans and the uninformed public and the sometimes even less informed media continue to dis anybody who isn’t heard constantly on Top 40 and doesn’t sell multiplatinum. But those people aren’t the ones who actually give you cred in music. Kris has the goods to prove himself, and, in fact, it might be *better* for him if he ends up performing a variety of smaller gigs — because those are the places where the indie crowd may actually show up and what they might hear about. I kind of think that, these days, it may be more possible to get away from the idol stigma that we may think.

  293. I don’t think there was as much ‘anybody but the gay guy’  voting as people think.

    Really? After the AMA’s and seeing the rampant homophobia everywhere from Twitter to article comments, I’m convinced more than ever that the homophobes were voting against Adam en masse during the finale.

    So you are theorizing that Kris’ first week’s sales numbers are a combined total from both his core AI fanbase and fans that he has acquired due to radioplay of LLWD? If that’s true, then Kris’ core AI fanbase is even smaller than anyone would have imagined, and that supports the arguments that a large proportion of Kris’ AI votes came from viewers who voted for him for reasons other than liking his music and supporting him for that reason.

    I agree.

  294. leeann
    11/26/2009 at 7:02 am
    For those complaining about the lack of hype for Kris, how exactly is the media supposed to hype him anyway? Kris hates promoting himself. He said himself that he’d prefer nobody talk about him at all. If I were the PR department of Jive, I’d be pulling my hair out by now. The only time Kris gives good interviews is with Slezak and Jim (and okay, I’ll add in Ellen but that’s because Ellen is a good interviewer). With other interviewers, he’s just plain boring or uncomfortable as hell (unless he had his buddy Lambert beside him).

    LOL I’m not even complaining about the lack of hype of Kris. There’s not even an EQUAL par of coverage, let alone a tendency to go to an excess. Get what I mean? It’s like someone with -25 coverage compared to someone with +106. He has gotten such bad publicity for winning this glorified karaoke contest, when all he did was sing. Instead of people airing out their grievances about why THEIR favorite didn’t win (and let’s not kid around, the clear media favorite was Adam), they should have done their homework and actually made more of an effort to get to know Kris for Kris, not Kris in terms of how he is in relation to Adam.

    And I’d like to see which interview or which article you’re referencing where Kris said he’d rather not be talked about at all, because I’m a pretty big Kris stan, and I’ve probably seen everything, so if I missed that, someone needs to take away my fan card. He mentioned that he doesn’t MIND not being the focus of much buzz, but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to be covered AT ALL. He said in a recent interview that if people want to put him on magazine covers, that’s cool by him, but it’s not why he tried out for Idol. If that’s the quote you’re talking about, we have different interpretations of that quote then.

    And I strongly disagree about Kris being a bad interview. That’s probably why I’m a Kris fan and you’re not. Why do you think Cantiello and Slezak elicit the best questions from Kris? Because they are Idoloonies, much like us, and ask the right questions. Everyone else in the media doesn’t put half as much effort into covering Idols as these two do. The rest of the media only cares that he’s married, that he won Idol over the gay guy, and can we talk about the gay guy more because he’s way more interesting than you. How about his album cover, eh?

    Point is, whether he was your favorite on the show or not is irrelevant. If you’re interviewing him, MAKE AN EFFORT. That’s all I ask from the media. Don’t ask him what he thinks of Adam’s album (duh, he’s not gonna say it’s awful; it doesn’t take rocket science to figure that out), don’t ask him “how has your life changed since winning Idol?” It shouldn’t be Kris’s job to make the interview great for the interviewer so they can write glowingly about him. That would be contrived. The journalist has to do their job and ask interesting questions, timely questions and look at Kris from the perspective of someone who could be interested in him, not as someone who is a fan of someone else but is only covering Kris because they have to since he won and all.

    But what Kris has got going for him is that he’s a talented songwriter and he does have a good Cd with several songs that can be released as singles (which will generate sales of the album). If I were Jive, I’d start hawking some songs for tie-ups with TV shows. I think that would be good promo for him, without Kris needing to get out there himself (since he seems to hate that IMO).

    LOL Kris is not a hermit. If I recall correctly, he loves performing and getting out there just as much as anyone. Not sure why you get the impression he hates going out there to promote his music.

    I personally won’t fault Jive for promo. They have been great with him. They got him on both morning and evening TV, and he has great radio promo right now ‘“ Kris is even going on a Christmas concert tour basically, and I am looking forward to concert after concert of youtube videos.

    I think Jive is doing a great job! I never said Jive isn’t promoting Kris enough. It may have seemed that way prior to the release of LLWD, but he certainly has been making the rounds pretty well and I applaud Jive for their strategy so far. My complaint was not of Jive’s lack of PR, but of the current media and how they write about Kris AND their general lack of interest and seeming disdain in Kris.

  295. After the AMA’s and seeing the rampant homophobia everywhere from Twitter to article comments, I’m convinced more than ever that the homophobes were voting against Adam en masse during the finale.

    Yes, it’s very sobering to see such examples of hatred, especially at non-AI-centric sites, and I believe that the anti-Adam/gay vote was a significant factor in the outcome of this year’s AI competition.

    Instead of people airing out their grievances about why THEIR favorite didn’t win (and let’s not kid around, the clear media favorite was Adam), they should have done their homework and actually made more of an effort to get to know Kris for Kris, not Kris in terms of how he is in relation to Adam.

    AI is a singing competition and it seems to me that those people in the media who preferred Adam over Kris were basing their evaluation on the singing of these two guys. Why should anyone have to “get to know” a singer before they can express their opinion of their singing? That’s irrelevant.

  296. Really? After the AMA’s and seeing the rampant homophobia everywhere from Twitter to article comments, I’m convinced more than ever that the homophobes were voting against Adam en masse during the finale.

    summerskin, there had to be some truth in what you’re saying; to what extent I dont know. But the AMA thing is quite something else. I’ve read a lot of comments on this one and the general consensus seems to be that his display was inappropriate and tasteless on national television, and I fully agree on this

  297. Actually you raised the point I wa

    s going to raise, however we disagree that he is more niche-oriented. That’s the thing that bothers me with the media coverage of this album. This album, IMO, has something for everyone. As I mentioned, there are songs that would appeal to indie music fans; songs that are more radio-friendly and have definite commercial appeal

    I agree with this, but not to the point of believing that Kris isn’t a bit niche-y….Given the songs that I see *way* at the top of both Top 40 and HAC for the most part, I consider soft rock a bit niche-y these days.

    I think where we differ is that I just don’t believe that most music buyers who snatch up the top selling stuff at any moment — Boom Boom Pow and Susan Boyle (now there’s a combination …) — are actually really looking for music. I think they’re mainly looking to be in the in crowd and/or to supply themselves with an additional dose of whatever style and song have been turned into an earworm for them or, in the SB-type cases, a feel-good experience that has much less to do with music than it does with emotions!

    So I don’t really expect a huge huge number of music buyers to be attracted to anything that isn’t either SB-emotion or being played constantly on the radio and elsewhere. Those who are actually looking for music? Yeah, they can be attracted to Kris — I agree with you completely that he has an indie vibe accompanied by lots of very mainstream elements. … But I’ve sort of concluded that only a subset of mainstream music buyers actually are buying *music.* I think they’re buying a chance to feel a part of their generations, and stuff like that … so many won’t look beyond the fads, I expect, and thus those won’t find Kris (or anybody who doesn’t make the top 5….)

    To use my usual example. Elliott got a very long-term top 5 hit in 200, and it sold platinum and pushed the sales of his first album past gold. But his new album has sold like crap, even though it’s loaded with what I think is much better music than on his first album, even, much of it in the exact vein of his top-selling song, Wait for You. ….

    Now, granted that he’s on an indie label and has no promotional clout, but if people really liked Wait for You, and were looking for music, I think they probably would have sought him out at least a bit and bought some songs off his new album, even though it hasn’t gotten played on the radio. But hardly any did. What I conclude from that is that they weren’t really looking for music in the first place, even though they probably *liked* the music that was Wait for YOu. They liked it, bt mainly bought it because it was in the air and was a fad and was “hot.” But since it wasn’t about the music, they weren’t interested in similar music. …

    I guess what I’m trying to say is — Yeah, Kris has significant amounts of stuff on his album that I believe would have mainstream appeal if people heard it, just as Elliott does. However, it appears to me that the mainsream music buyer isn’t *interested* in music. So, to me, you’re probably setting yourself up for heartbreak if you focus *too* much on winning the general public over. Might as well pitch yourself more to the niche markets, because more people there actually *are* interested in the music.

    For some people, I think the niche would be a harder sell than it might be for Kris. Elliott’s niche, for example, is blue-eyed soul, and these days that is a very tough sell for the soul-friendly black audience and doesn’t have many takers in the white world, either. … Kris, on the other hand, has a soft-rock, singer-songwriter vibe — and there seem to be a lot of people who like that these days. …. I think the secret might be touring.

  298. Starr: I buy CDs. I don’t normally buy stuff off of iTunes. Do I preview an entire CD before I buy it? No. Either I go off of reputation (hence the Them Crooked Vultures reference) because I am confident it will sound good or I go from having heard one or two songs off an album. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who does this. Not everyone has iPods. Not everyone downloads their stuff illegally off the internet and burns them onto CDs. Then how does one get a hold of a song? You buy the CD.

    Who are these people who are buying his CDs? (1) diehard fans who pre-ordered it because they loved him on the show and are confident in whatever he was going to put out (2) casual viewers of AI who heard of Adam or caught him on tour and were confident he would put out a good CD, and (3) people who had never heard of Adam but were interested in him after being exposed to him via different media UNRELATED to his album (magazine covers, newspaper articles, etc). The third one is the one I am saying Kris did not benefit from as much as Adam did, since the media coverage of both is different.

    See, this is the part of your argument I don’t understand. You state that you yourself buy albums based on reputation because you’re “confident it will sound good” (i.e. you’ve heard the artist before and liked him/her), or because you’ve heard one or two songs off the album. And you’re pretty sure you’re not the only one who does this. Yet, you claim there is a large group of people who buy albums simply because they read about the artist in a magazine, i.e. simply based on hype and without actually hearing the album at all. So, who’s the norm here? You? Those folks buying based solely on hype?

    I think you’re the norm. I believe the vast majority of people buy music the way you buy music. I also think the number of people who might fall in category (3) above (and I’m sure there are a few) are a fairly miniscule group in the scheme of things and don’t begin to account for the huge discrepancy between Kris’s first week’s numbers and Adam’s projected first week’s sales. And there are plenty of ways to hear a song or songs from the album beforehand; anyone with a computer can find them floating around on the internet and, although the quality may not be the best, you can hear them in their entirety.

    So you are theorizing that Kris’ first week’s sales numbers are a combined total from both his core AI fanbase and fans that he has acquired due to radioplay of LLWD? If that’s true, then Kris’ core AI fanbase is even smaller than anyone would have imagined, and that supports the arguments that a large proportion of Kris’ AI votes came from viewers who voted for him for reasons other than liking his music and supporting him for that reason.

    This is actually a good point. I do think these numbers, both Kris’s and Adam’s, are indicative of fanbase size. And I don’t think we’ll really know how either of these guys will fare in the outside music world until we get beyond their respective first weeks’ sales.

  299. Here are the debut album numbers from Jive artists this year:

    1. Ciara – Fantasy Ride 80,890
    2. Kris Allen ‘“ Kris Allen ‘“ 80,072
    3. Three Days Grace ‘“ Life Starts Now ‘“ 79,230
    4. Charlie Wilson – Uncle Charlie – 58,110
    5. Jordin Sparks ‘“ Battlefield ‘“ 47,637
    6. Backstreet Boys ‘“ This Is Us ‘“ 41,546
    7. Relient K ‘“ Forget And Not Slowing Down ‘“ 33,940
    8. Britney Spears ‘“ Singles Collection ‘“ 26,818
    9. Bowling for Soup – Sorry for Partyin’ – less than 6,000

  300. summerskin, there had to be some truth in what you’re saying; to what extent I dont know. But the AMA thing is quite something else. I’ve read a lot of comments on this one and the general consensus seems to be that his display was inappropriate and tasteless on national television, and I fully agree on this

    Well, using Adam’s argument, Eminem sang about raping women, Janet grabbed a guy’s crotch, and Adam himself performed a similar move on one of his female dancers (and no one had any problems with these things), yet after the performance, most people on Twitter were talking about how disgusting it was that Adam was shoving his gay down everyone’s throats.

    CBS blurred the kiss, even though the Madonna/Britney one is shown everywhere.

    So imo, the argument that his performance was inappropriate (at 11 pm at night!) is just an excuse for some of these people. And this is not directed at you, of course. I’m sure there were a lot who were just legitimately offended, but from what I’d seen on Twitter directly after the performance, there was an extremely large amount of “Ewwww, how gay!” Sorry, this is all off-topic anyway, since we are in a Kris thread talking about his sales lol

  301. Ciara is not a new artist and has a history of Billboard Hot 100 hits.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciara

    When you say “debut” do you mean first week’s sales, rather than a new artist? Which of those artists are new artists, releasing their first CD?

  302. Albums that debuted. First week sales. Britney isn’t a new artist either LOL

  303. fuzzywuzzy
    11/26/2009 at 8:57 am

    It’s very simple. Kris WON AI, so by definition, he should be the most popular among the around 25 million or so viewers who participated in this singing competition. That expectation comes from winning and it is usually correct. This will be only the second time in 8 seasons where the runner-up has outsold the winner, so on average, it appears that the winner normally sells the most CDs, validating the ‘contest’ .

    I see your point. I just don’t think that this necessarily applies to Kris. Slezak keeps saying that Kris was the first contestant to start out as canon fodder and end up winning the title. To me this means that Kris literally just snuck up on everyone. He was never viewed as a threat, he was never even expected to win. Not much attention was paid to him. The only reason he kept going and going through every round was because as people got eliminated, he tended to be the most likely to pick up their votes. This can probably be said of David Cook as well. I think maybe a lot of Brooke White, Jason Castro and Michael Johns fans started voting for David after their favorites got eliminated (again, this is just my speculation, correct me if I’m wrong here). However, what David Cook has over Kris is that he was treated as a potential frontrunner throughout the competition, and so who Idol chooses to emphasize will be whoever they foresee making it to the end. I don’t think Kris had that same advantage.

    I agree that Adam did receive a lot of ‘hype’ , but would disagree that it was solely for having a ‘big personality’ . There are numerous public statements of praise from the producers with whom Adam worked and the only attribute that was mentioned was his stellar vocal talent and musicianship. Adam’s personality, stylish wardrobe or ‘image’  simply enhance someone who’s main reason for attention is his talent.

    Well so did Kris. Didn’t he get praise from Randy Travis, Quentin Tarantino, Smokey Robinson, Jamie Foxx, etc as well? Wasn’t he described by Ricky Minor as a “quiet storm”? Kris, too, was praised for his musicianship and his artistry. The only difference is he doesn’t sing as high as Adam can sing, and I guess he doesn’t dress as stylishly LOL I don’t know. What does that mean then? If you’re a stylish dresser or a big belter this warrants the hype?

    I think that this is a significant reason for Kris winning AI, but having a rather small core fanbase (as shown by his first week’s sales). When Danny was eliminated, it’s reasonable to speculate that the bulk of his support was transferred to Kris for a number of reasons, including a large number of fundamentalist voters who were encouraged to vote against Adam (for obvious reasons).

    I dunno, I don’t think there’s a large group of fundamentalist voters out there. But maybe that’s just me. I think they’re a loud minority, but they are still a minority. I don’t think they’re necessarily numerous. They were probably voting a lot because of their convictions, but I don’t think there’s necessarily a lot of individuals who bothered to do this, just as it’s also reasonable to speculate that a portion of people who voted for Adam voted for him because he is gay. Is there a large number of these people who were willing to vote as hard as these fundamentalists? Who knows?

    So you are theorizing that Kris’ first week’s sales numbers are a combined total from both his core AI fanbase and fans that he has acquired due to radioplay of LLWD? If that’s true, then Kris’ core AI fanbase is even smaller than anyone would have imagined, and that supports the arguments that a large proportion of Kris’ AI votes came from viewers who voted for him for reasons other than liking his music and supporting him for that reason.

    First half I agree with, but the highlighted one I do not necessarily agree with. I agree he has a smaller core fanbase (which is largely where the first week sales come from), and he has acquired fans from radioplay of LLWD. However, the viewers who voted for him that did NOT participate in the first week of sales can’t just be generalized as people who voted for him for reasons other than his music. Like we mentioned before, Kris had people who were fans of other Idols who ended up voting for him. Did they vote for him because they were homophobic and didn’t want to vote for Adam? It’s possible, but there’s no way of knowing that for sure, just as it’s possible they voted for him because he was the likely second favorite and his appeal or his music was akin to that of their eliminated favorite’s music (Matt fans were more likely to go for Kris than Adam, etc). Does it mean that just because Kris was the second favorite and they ultimately voted for him that they are now automatically part of the core fanbase and are thus expected to participate in first week sales? Probably not. I think they will factor into the weeks that follow, though.

    Kris also had more casual viewer votes, IMO. People who watched Idol in passing, who aren’t really invested in Idol and maybe caught one performance (I’m referring to “Heartless” in particular). These people aren’t going to participate during first week sales either.

    But that said, I certainly don’t discount the part of Kris’s finale votes that were people who voted for other reasons other than liking his music. I just don’t think that there are as many of these people as you think.

  304. When you say ‘debut’  do you mean first week’s sales, rather than a new artist? Which of those artists are new artists, releasing their first CD?

    Now that’s a good question since new artists generally don’t debut as high as established ones.

  305. summerskin,

    I’m not denying the homophobia, it exists. I stand to my point though and I find equally inappropriate the other examples you brought in (eminem, Janet,,). The performance was at 11:00 at night but it’s not like the whole thing started at 11:00, it started at 8 or 9 and was finishing at 11ish so the audience was a prime time audience.
    Personnally I stay away from any artists using sex or violence in an inappropriate way.
    yeah, off topic :)

  306. lucy
    11/26/2009 at 11:19 am
    Actually you raised the point I wa

    I guess what I’m trying to say is ‘” Yeah, Kris has significant amounts of stuff on his album that I believe would have mainstream appeal if people heard it, just as Elliott does. However, it appears to me that the mainsream music buyer isn’t *interested* in music. So, to me, you’re probably setting yourself up for heartbreak if you focus *too* much on winning the general public over. Might as well pitch yourself more to the niche markets, because more people there actually *are* interested in the music.

    For some people, I think the niche would be a harder sell than it might be for Kris. Elliott’s niche, for example, is blue-eyed soul, and these days that is a very tough sell for the soul-friendly black audience and doesn’t have many takers in the white world, either. ‘ ¦ Kris, on the other hand, has a soft-rock, singer-songwriter vibe ‘” and there seem to be a lot of people who like that these days. ‘ ¦. I think the secret might be touring.

    So you think Kris might as well pitch himself to the niche groups because they are the ones interested in the music therefore they will generate sales, but you also think that there are a lot of people who like the singer-songwriter vibe these days (I take it you don’t think these are the same niche people), therefore he should concentrate on commercial appeal? Sorry, I got confused. Which one should he concentrate on then? The commercial soft-rock appeal which seems to be what’s popular now but not necessarily appealing to people who BUY music, or the niche groups who will actually BUY music but who you think are a harder sell?

    I just don’t think he has to choose, because in both instances you have the potential to generate sales, which is why I think this album is easier to pitch than people give it credit for (not you, of course. I think we’ve come to an understanding about what this album offers). It’s not a guarantee that if you’re a Boom Boom Pow Pow fan that you will not buy Kris’s album; there is always a good chance you will. I think there is a market full of pop music lovers and pop music is just generally feelgood music (not necessarily a genre you love). I think Kris’s album has a lot of songs that could be pop hits, and so he definitely has a stake in that pop music market, just as he has a stake in the more niche groups.

  307. Looking at iTunes for all the artists I listed above, all of them have more than one album. So, basing it on that, I would say that Kris is the only new artist among them.

  308. One thing I’d like to add that I really don’t think most can argue with, is that the media seems to always ask Kris about Adam, but never asks Adam about Kris. In every situation where Kris has been asked about Adam he has handled it with grace, every single time. There are not many people you can say this about.

  309. LaurelG
    11/26/2009 at 11:23 am

    See, this is the part of your argument I don’t understand. You state that you yourself buy albums based on reputation because you’re ‘confident it will sound good’  (i.e. you’ve heard the artist before and liked him/her), or because you’ve heard one or two songs off the album. And you’re pretty sure you’re not the only one who does this. Yet, you claim there is a large group of people who buy albums simply because they read about the artist in a magazine, i.e. simply based on hype and without actually hearing the album at all. So, who’s the norm here? You? Those folks buying based solely on hype?

    I think you’re the norm. I believe the vast majority of people buy music the way you buy music. I also think the number of people who might fall in category (3) above (and I’m sure there are a few) are a fairly miniscule group in the scheme of things and don’t begin to account for the huge discrepancy between Kris’s first week’s numbers and Adam’s projected first week’s sales. And there are plenty of ways to hear a song or songs from the album beforehand; anyone with a computer can find them floating around on the internet and, although the quality may not be the best, you can hear them in their entirety.

    Dude I’m getting really sleepy, so let me just sum up my feelings this way: Susan Boyle = Adam Lambert. Both got a shitload of sales because people think both have amazing voices, yes. Was there promotion for their current albums? No, or at least, minute compared to say, Kris’s promotion of his album prior to its release. At the same time both have generated the most hype. SuBo has been on tabloids, she’s “the crazy cat lady” with the amazing voice, she’s awkward and quirky and became a media darling; videos and articles were written all about her, etc etc. What are the chances people bought her stuff without ever having heard previews of her album? High. They probably read about her on the Huffington Post, probably saw her audition video replayed again and again on CNN or some shit. If someone like Kris is inserted into this equation and he doesn’t receive nearly the same amount of coverage as SuBo, well obviously he’s not going to sell as much as she will because people won’t even know who he is. I didn’t even know Susan Boyle lost Britain’s Got Talent; didn’t even know who won the actual thing. I had to google it. I know OF Susan Boyle because of hype, reputation, etc. I don’t necessarily know what her album sounds like, but it sounds pretty good from what I’ve heard. Therefore let me order it.

    That’s it. I’m off to bed. Lovely chatting with you folk.

  310. I think Kris is doing very good in the charts, remembert this year the economy is bad.

    Maybe he’s not the most popular American Idol winner (Carrie, Kelly etc) but by now, he is doing fine.

  311. If anybody is looking to still buy Carrie’s album, amazon.com has Play On for $6.99 right now. Some Hearts is also for $6.99 and there’s a deal that if you buy both of them, it’s only $11.99! Pretty good deal for two CD’s…

  312. O.M.G! Mentioning itunes suddenly made me very curious about something. I went to check out the itunes banner on Pop for Kris and it doesn’t even mention American Idol! Can someone tell me if it did last week? I don’t think it has changed. BUT, Adam’s does! It says American Idol favorite! WOW! I’m actually feeling a little speechless about what I think about this. On one hand I really don’t care because I think this proves that Jive is selling him as a new artist as opposed to the AI winner. On the other hand I think it also proves that TPTB want to rewrite AI history. Am I missing something? Am I wrong?

  313. Susan Boyle = Adam Lambert.

    LOL. Yeah, I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

    The type of person who would buy the Hairy Angel is not the sort of music buyer RCA/19 is going after with respect to Adam. And conversely the type of person who is buying Adam’s album is probably not buying Subo’s too (well maybe for their gramma or cat-loving aunt). I tend to think what works on the Subo crowd (buyers of a bunch of covers) is not necessarily going to work on the Adam crowd (buyers of contemporary original music); I suspect one group is a little more into the music. Might be why Adam wasn’t on QVC pitching his album … and never will be. :)

    Hope you get some rest.

  314. Well so did Kris. Didn’t he get praise from Randy Travis, Quentin Tarantino, Smokey Robinson, Jamie Foxx, etc as well? Wasn’t he described by Ricky Minor as a ‘quiet storm’ ? Kris, too, was praised for his musicianship and his artistry. The only difference is he doesn’t sing as high as Adam can sing, and I guess he doesn’t dress as stylishly LOL I don’t know. What does that mean then? If you’re a stylish dresser or a big belter this warrants the hype?

    I hope that you are being facetious, because if you honestly believe that the only difference between Adam and Kris as singers and musicians is that Adam can sing ‘higher’  and dress more ‘stylishly’  then you aren’t supporting your arguments with valid points. These two guys are entirely different artists. Enjoyment of music is subjective, and if reviewers and members of the media tended to enjoy Adam’s singing more than Kris, then it’s their opinion.

    I dunno, I don’t think there’s a large group of fundamentalist voters out there. But maybe that’s just me. I think they’re a loud minority, but they are still a minority. I don’t think they’re necessarily numerous. They were probably voting a lot because of their convictions, but I don’t think there’s necessarily a lot of individuals who bothered to do this, just as it’s also reasonable to speculate that a portion of people who voted for Adam voted for him because he is gay. Is there a large number of these people who were willing to vote as hard as these fundamentalists? Who knows?

    Pastor Pruitt of Danny’s church was instructing his parishioners publicly and on Twitter to vote for Kris because it was necessary to have a ‘believer’  win AI. It’s not unreasonable to assume that similar exhortations happened elsewhere among the fundamentalist community. Did some gays vote for Adam simply because he was gay? I’m sure that some did, but in reviewing gay Internet sites, it was very apparent that there was far more support for Kris among the LGBT community than Adam, therefore, likely net more votes for Kris from the gay community.

    Does it mean that just because Kris was the second favorite and they ultimately voted for him that they are now automatically part of the core fanbase and are thus expected to participate in first week sales? Probably not. I think they will factor into the weeks that follow, though.

    Kris also had more casual viewer votes, IMO. People who watched Idol in passing, who aren’t really invested in Idol and maybe caught one performance (I’m referring to ‘Heartless’  in particular). These people aren’t going to participate during first week sales either.

    But that said, I certainly don’t discount the part of Kris’s finale votes that were people who voted for other reasons other than liking his music. I just don’t think that there are as many of these people as you think.

    I agree that Kris won for a variety of factors: anti-Adam/gay vote, people who just like to regard AI as a ‘game show’  but have no intention of supporting anyone after the show is over, getting votes from supporters of other contestants as they were voted off because they may have liked Kris second/third/etc. best, massive power voting from residents of Arkansas, as well as people who liked Kris best of everyone. But we are talking about the reasons why someone with over 50 million votes (probably one of the largest vote totals ever) has sold the fewest CDs of any AI winner ever, and ultimately it boils down to only a very small proportion of the people who voted liking Kris’ singing enough to pay for his music after AI was over. Since all of the other factors I listed above apply to previous seasons of AI, the only factor specific to this year is the anti-Adam/gay vote, for which there is documented evidence. The AI viewing demographic is disproportionately represented by middle America and assuming that more of these viewers are conservative leaning and more religious is not unreasonable, so it is also not unreasonable (given the evidence) that the anti-gay vote was very impactful in the outcome of this year’s contest.

  315. Was there promotion for their current albums? No, or at least, minute compared to say, Kris’s promotion of his album prior to its release.

    Is this said in an ironic sense? Sorry, I admit I’m lazy and skip most very long posts. You can’t seriously mean Adam on Oprah, AMA, The Letterman Show, The Early Show got less promo than Kris. Cause that just ain’t true.

    Susan Boyle had QVC and the Today show. Plus lots of well placed ads.
    So she probably had less promo than Adam. I’d agree with that.

    Wait I just remembered, Kris did get to present at the AMA and had the gig at the football parking lot. So yeah, he did have way more promo than Adam. :) Actually, I don’t think Kris would have outsold Adam even with the promo but let’s be fair about who got the lion’s share. It’s kind of obvious.

  316. I went to check out the itunes banner on Pop for Kris and it doesn’t even mention American Idol! Can someone tell me if it did last week? I don’t think it has changed. BUT, Adam’s does! It says American Idol favorite! WOW!

    On the other hand I think it also proves that TPTB want to rewrite AI history. Am I missing something? Am I wrong?

    Well, I think we’ll have to check the Idol banner behind the contestants when the Season 9 promos start running. If we spot Adam’s big mug there front and center instead of Kris’s, then I think you might have a point! :)

    (Seriously, not gonna happen.)

  317. Okay, I may have overacted a bit about rewriting history, lol, but I think this does say something about the selling aspect. *shrugs*

  318. So you think Kris might as well pitch himself to the niche groups because they are the ones interested in the music therefore they will generate sales, but you also think that there are a lot of people who like the singer-songwriter vibe these days (I take it you don’t think these are the same niche people), therefore he should concentrate on commercial appeal?

    I meant two things (didn’t exactly say them, I see, but I meant them): One — that they might as well keep trying to pitch Kris to the Top 40 market, because at least in the below-top-10 level there *is* poppy soft rock/singer-songwriter stuff so there doesn’t seem to be a reason why he can’t have moderate success there (not Britney level — because I don’t see soft rock/singer songwriters in the top 10 for the most part.)

    And, two — if the Top 40 pitch doesn’t work (and while i agree with you that his music certainly should have some shot there, I also don’t think it’s a sure thing), it won’t in the least be the end of the world, because I can see him successfully going after the niche market and, despite what Idol fans think, you don’t have to be a platinum seller in American Top 40/HAC or country in order to have a great career.

  319. WOW! I’m actually feeling a little speechless about what I think about this. On one hand I really don’t care because I think this proves that Jive is selling him as a new artist as opposed to the AI winner. On the other hand I think it also proves that TPTB want to rewrite AI history. Am I missing something? Am I wrong?

    Who’d write those banner ads? I would think that it would be the record labels. So if it’s the labels, then that just reflects that RCA wants to use the Idol thing and Jive doesn’t.

    If it’s 19, then you’re probably right. However, since it’s the albums that are being sold on Itunes, I think it would almost certainly be the record labels that would create the ads for those albums ….

    Anybody know for sure who’s responsible for writing Itunes ads? It seems logical to me that it would be the label that create the album, and not your management, but that’s just a hunch, on my part.

  320. LaurelG
    11/26/2009 at 12:50 pm
    Susan Boyle = Adam Lambert.

    LOL. Yeah, I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

    The type of person who would buy the Hairy Angel is not the sort of music buyer RCA/19 is going after with respect to Adam. And conversely the type of person who is buying Adam’s album is probably not buying Subo’s too (well maybe for their gramma or cat-loving aunt). I tend to think what works on the Subo crowd (buyers of a bunch of covers) is not necessarily going to work on the Adam crowd (buyers of contemporary original music); I suspect one group is a little more into the music. Might be why Adam wasn’t on QVC pitching his album ‘ ¦ and never will be.

    I wasn’t talking about demographics. Obviously Adam appeals to a different base than SuBo. Just saying the trajectories seem the same to me. But yup, we’ll agree to disagree.

    fuzzywuzzy
    11/26/2009 at 1:00 pm

    I hope that you are being facetious, because if you honestly believe that the only difference between Adam and Kris as singers and musicians is that Adam can sing ‘higher’  and dress more ‘stylishly’  then you aren’t supporting your arguments with valid points. These two guys are entirely different artists. Enjoyment of music is subjective, and if reviewers and members of the media tended to enjoy Adam’s singing more than Kris, then it’s their opinion.

    I just used the same descriptions you used with Adam when you were talking about how those would factor into what justified the “hype” for him. To me it seemed like you were implying all those things factored into the hype. The quote of mine you used for the response above was to point out that the stuff you used to factor into the hype for Adam were applicable to Kris too, the difference being their musical styles, performance styles and personality. Had you mentioned those I would have gladly added them too.

    Pastor Pruitt of Danny’s church was instructing his parishioners publicly and on Twitter to vote for Kris because it was necessary to have a ‘believer’  win AI. It’s not unreasonable to assume that similar exhortations happened elsewhere among the fundamentalist community. Did some gays vote for Adam simply because he was gay? I’m sure that some did, but in reviewing gay Internet sites, it was very apparent that there was far more support for Kris among the LGBT community than Adam, therefore, likely net more votes for Kris from the gay community.

    This is news to me. I’ve never heard of this Pastor and I never did research on LGBT sites to see who they were voting for. But this is interesting, though!

    I agree that Kris won for a variety of factors: anti-Adam/gay vote, people who just like to regard AI as a ‘game show’  but have no intention of supporting anyone after the show is over, getting votes from supporters of other contestants as they were voted off because they may have liked Kris second/third/etc. best, massive power voting from residents of Arkansas, as well as people who liked Kris best of everyone. But we are talking about the reasons why someone with over 50 million votes (probably one of the largest vote totals ever) has sold the fewest CDs of any AI winner ever, and ultimately it boils down to only a very small proportion of the people who voted liking Kris’ singing enough to pay for his music after AI was over. Since all of the other factors I listed above apply to previous seasons of AI, the only factor specific to this year is the anti-Adam/gay vote, for which there is documented evidence. The AI viewing demographic is disproportionately represented by middle America and assuming that more of these viewers are conservative leaning and more religious is not unreasonable, so it is also not unreasonable (given the evidence) that the anti-gay vote was very impactful in the outcome of this year’s contest.

    Kris has sold the fewest CDs ever? I thought we were only talking about first week sales? I hope that’s just a typo LOL

    Re: power voting – hasn’t this been going on in all seasons of American Idol? Why are people making it out to be like Arkansas is so special and they have superior voting techniques? Didn’t other previous Idol winners have hometown advantages too?

    As for the anti-gay voting thing, was this not used as an excuse during Clay and Ruben’s season 2? I’m only familiar with season 8, but from what I’ve heard of season 2 people were saying Clay lost because he got the anti-gay vote, etc. and blamed Ruben’s mom’s power voting/campaign/etc for Ruben’s win. Didn’t Ruben debut with a strong first week of sales?

  321. Did this not apply to Clay and Ruben during season 2? I’m only familiar with season 8, but from what I’ve heard of season 2 people were saying Clay lost because he was gay, etc. and blamed Ruben’s mom’s power voting/campaign/etc for Ruben’s win. Didn’t Ruben debut with a strong first week of sales?

    Ruben had the highest first week sales of any Idol winner.

  322. unique28v, even though Ruben had higher first week sales than any Idol WINNER, Clay outsold him by about 200,000 cds and has the highest selling debut week of any idol ever. and i watched Clay and Ruben’s season but i dont ever remember there being any of the sort of controversy that happened this year. I dont think most people assumed that Clay was gay because there was no evidence of it, like there was evidence with Adam with the photos. Sure there was some speculation but i dont think that had anything to do with the vote. Clay just lost by about 1500 votes if i remember correctly. it was the smallest margin in AI history.

    I think in terms of Idol fanbases they were about equal but Clay’s fans were just more passionate i guess. Oprah supported Ruben so that right there is huge. They were also both featured on the cover of Rolling Stone in separate issues and both performed on the AMA’s that year. Clay and Ruben both had hype but Clay had more. If you wanna compare it to the Kris/Adam thing this year though (i dont know why anyone would since it’s apples and oranges) Adam has eclipsed the amount of hype any idol contestant ever had and Kris’ hype was pretty much non existent. Its just perplexing how all of this panned out with Kris’ sales and yet he had the most votes of any idol finale.

  323. I also think that as the winner, Kris was at a disadvantage that he was hung with “No Boundries” as his coronation song. It did not carry him thru the summer as TOML did for DC. He was somewhat out of the spotlight with all the AL hype and the negative media stories as he was “the guy that beat Adam Lambert”. The media sucked all summer for Kris and when he was interviewed, the interview turned to Adam. Sloppy, lazy reporting and that is why I don’t pay too much attention to album reviews. I know what I like and will buy and don’t need a “critic” to tell me.

  324. Well, I think we’ll have to check the Idol banner behind the contestants when the Season 9 promos start running. If we spot Adam’s big mug there front and center instead of Kris’s, then I think you might have a point!

    (Seriously, not gonna happen.)

    True – even Daughtry never got extra face time the next season over Taylor, despite his higher success than Taylor by the time the next season rolled around. However, the AI S9 commercials are featuring Feeling Good being sung, an Adam signature.

  325. 2009’s 80k is probably about the same as 2007’s 119k, though. Does anyone actually have numbers of how much the industry has decreased, percentage-wise, in those two years, so that we can actually calculate? They should have calculators for that. Kind of like inflation adjustment calculators except for for album units, and it’s deflation.

  326. Sherena
    “2009’s 80k is probably about the same as 2007’s 119k, though. Does anyone actually have numbers of how much the industry has decreased, percentage-wise, in those two years, so that we can actually calculate? They should have calculators for that. Kind of like inflation adjustment calculators except for for album units, and it’s deflation.”

    Excellent point!!! But oh well, I think the non-Kris fans aren’t going to go for that argument either. So no point finding reasons for the 80K sale number. What does comfort me a little is knowing there is people out there who wasn’t able to buy his CD because it’s out of stock. So hope that coming weeks his sale number won’t be a drastic drop like in other seasons.

  327. If you go back and check the media interviews this last six months, in Kris’s interviews Adam is brought up within the first two questions….in Adam’s interviews Kris is never mentioned.

    Hype at it’s best. Kris never stands a chance in most interviews and even less so now with all the recent happenings. Ellen’s recent interview was a good example.

    I wish Adam well and just hope at some point he decides to base his future on his voice rather than his….as they say in sports… “off the field” antics.

  328. Idolnewby
    “If you go back and check the media interviews this last six months, in Kris’s interviews Adam is brought up within the first two questions’ ¦.in Adam’s interviews Kris is never mentioned.

    Hype at it’s best. Kris never stands a chance in most interviews and even less so now with all the recent happenings. Ellen’s recent interview was a good example.”

    I agree with you. But don’t give up on Kris yet. Still too early in the game. Maybe you haven’t read this article http://topidol.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/kris-allen-might-be-the-most-likeable-american-idol-winner-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-15095

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