Crystal Bowersox Airs Label Frustration Via Twitter

2nd Update:  Thursday night, Crystal apologizes via twitter, “Despite my gratitude and disgruntledness, I apologize 4a lack of prfessionlism ytrdy. Big girls d’t cry, right? They thrw kicks and pnches.”

***

Update: After re-tweeting a flurry of her followers’ anti-major label messages last night,   Crystal calmed down a bit and tweeted,

“just frustrated with the politics of the industry. not just jive just disappointing how the industry has changed. every1s hands are tied.”

Finally, with the frustration seemingly out of her system, one last tweet,

“thanks for all of the support, guys. i have more freedom than most signed artists, so imma stop complaining. i love what i do. i am blessed”

***

Crystal Bowersox has said for several weeks now that her upcoming debut album will be released in the spring, despite the fact that her label, Jive would prefer to release in the fall, as newly-minted Idols usually do.

But, when Crystal’s album went up for pre-sale on her official site, the release date was listed as “Fall”. Naturally, her fans wondered what was up. When they alerted Crystal to the the release date, Crystal got a little…well read for your self:

idolslivesunrise2010-48Question tweeted to @crystalbowersox: Cd release back on for fall, I see. Are you feeling ok about that? I am confident it will be a gem either way.

@crystalbowersox answers: its not. Who said that?

Answer tweeted to @crystalbowersox: on the dot come when you pre order it.

@crystalbowersox answers: yeah that’s not right.

@crystalbowersox answers: I’m not in the loop apparently. I guess I’m just supposed to sing songs and be a lame obedient dog. Sorry, not this woman.

@crystalbowersox tweets: We love exactly what you do. Now do it differently. We can’t have an Indy type artist on a major label. Why the bleep not?

Tell us how you really feel Crystal! Ha. Crystal needs to choose her battles with the label wisely, if she wants to continue to work with them. If she alienates The Powers That Be, they may not work so hard to promote her. If her album flops/and or there are no hit singles, it will be one and done with Jive.

But then, Taylor Hicks and Blake Lewis were dropped by their respective labels after their Idol debuts, and are now making the music they want  independently.  If Crystal gets dropped, I don’t think it will stop her from making music.  She’s one strong-willed chica. And I mean that as a compliment.

Enough label talk! Let’s listen to some music.

After the jump…three original performances from Crystal.   “Mine all Mine” from her 9/2 performance at the Waterfront Cafe in Chicago.  “Farmer’s Daughter” from her 9/10 performance at Alice 93.7 in San Francisco and “Speak Now” from her 9/21 performance at Ford Day in Dearborn MI.

thanks sr4mjc:

Video after the JUMP…

Video Sources: Hannip1, ginaalex13, kristen8110,

Mine all Mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmkgIMs5KzY

Farmer’s Daughter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6B44dAseVs

Speak Now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxBklxf25Gc

About mj santilli 33692 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

186 Comments

  1. This is exactly why I love Crystal. She realizes two things:

    #1. Jive needs her more than she needs Jive
    #2. If she compromised herself as an artist to make a bullshit pop album it would spell the end of her career.

    Push comes to shove, she’s the one who holds the cards. She already has made enough contacts and money to become successful without the major label. They play ball by her terms, and put out her true music, or they can literally go fuck themselves.

    LOVE IT! GO CRYSTAL, GO!

    Truth to power, baby.

  2. Dammit. More label frustration.

    I wouldn’t mind Crystal being dropped and going for an indie label. I really love her originals. Speak Now is just gorgeous.

    I still think she’s kinda overestimating her control over the album, and she’s bound to just get more frustrated. I hope things go her way.

  3. Wow, tell it like it is. I’m not sure if taking it publicly is the best route (though she was asked by fans). Does she have enough clout for this? She’s signed a contract. Kelly Clarkson did not fair that well in her battles.

    If she alienates her label and loses their support, she’s going to be less marketable for another label to pick her up. Or will that give her more cred?

    Either with a major label or an indie one she’s going to make her music.

  4. I tend to agree that she’s overestimating her creative and marketing control: Even the hottest acts these days get their hands tied by restrictive contracts in the wake of the failing music market. Honestly, Jive was never going to be the right record label for her, and I truly think her wheelhouse is going to be regional touring/smaller labels where she can basically just publish/produce on her own. Hopefully she doesn’t let her (what I will assume to be) limited run with Jive faze her too much and affect her final product.

  5. Well, good luck to her. For all the idols Jive signs, they sure don’t seem to know how to handle them or shepherd them successfully. My sense is Crystal will ultimately be recording independently. I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple other Idols with Jive won’t be doing that eventually also.

    And I’m not just blaming Jive. Some of the Idols are more independent thinking than many would believe considering how their careers got launched. Not a bad thing, but you have to know how to keep your integrity while playing the game. Just a hard balance to strike. Not like I’m a musician on a major label, so I don’t know how to do it either.

  6. Jive executives deal with touchy artist types all the time. It’s the business they’re in. I do think Crystal will leave Jive after her first cd (it’s a terrible mismatch) but Jive probably figures any publicity is good publicity. Jive will go on and Crystal will go on and both will be just fine.

  7. JIVE needs her more then she needs them? She hasn’t made them money yet and given the lack of hype over this season her potential to make them a lot of money isn’t assured.

    At this point I don’t see this relationship continuing beyond one record. Maybe that’s what would make her happy but I wonder why go on Idol in the first place if that’s the case.

  8. Not trying to blame Jive, but they mismanaged Allison’s material and marketed her erroneously as poppy princess. But Crystal has a stronger sense of who she is as an artist and more momentum off AI so maybe she can better navigate the balance between commercial and artistic integrity.

  9. Oh. Sweet, sweet ignorance. Why hasn’t she learned?

    Right from the beginning of Idol she complained about not being able to sing originals, claimed to never have seen the show, blah blah blah. After all this time, she still thinks she gets to have creative control? Ha ha ha!

    You and Jive are in for a long, unpleasant road, Crystal. Best start preparing now. Both Kris and Allison could attest to this, I believe.

  10. I like that Crystal is standing up for what she believes in and it spices things up.

    It is going to be interesting to follow what happens next.

    But I wonder whether she is not breaking the terms of her contract by publicly dissing the label and the material that they might release on her behalf, and how Jive will react.

  11. negativo

    huh?

    Jive has all the leverage, not Crystal. She signed a contract which means they are the only label that has the right to release her music. And there is a clause in pretty much every musician’s contract with a label (esp. with major labels) that basically says that the label has no obligation to release anything the artist records. If Jive isn’t happy with the album Crystal makes, they can simply shelve it. If Jive wants her album to come out in the fall — guess what, she’s going to have to get herself in the studio and rush through the sessions to have it ready to be released in the fall. Meanwhile, as long as Crystal is under contract, she can’t record any music for anyone else without Jive’s permission. Exactly how would she be able to build a career if that happens?

    Jive doesn’t need Crystal. They have a huge roster of artists. Why do they need someone who isn’t likely to be a huge commercial success — and isn’t even guaranteed to be a critical success? Now I don’t think Crystal needs Jive, either — she could have moderate success simply releasing music through an independent label. And she’d probably be perfectly happy as long as she was able to give her son a decent life. I don’t think she cares all that much (i at all) about being rich & famous.

    If Crystal is lucky, Jive will let her out of her contract after this first album — because it’s clearly a bad match. IF they do that, her best move would be to find a small, independent label that gives her the amount of creative control she wants. because — as Kelly Clarkson or any of the other Idol contestants would tell Crystal — major labels rarely, if ever, give musicians much creative control. It is pretty much all about the bottom line. And artists rarely win fights with their labels. Even when they do, it can sometimes takes years to clean up & recover from the mess made.

  12. I dunno.. i’m not a big fan of internet hissy fits. I would imagine that at this point in Crystal’s career she needs to keep peace with her label and work on finding a decent compromise with the album. I don’t think Jive NEEDS her, but I do think she needs Jive right now. Do we know how many labels were banging on her door after the idol finale?

    Wishing Crystal the best of luck in this cut throat business. I think she’s super talented and has a lot to offer the music industry, but she’s gotta play the game to a certain degree in order to get ahead. That’s true for any career. I’m not saying be “untrue” to herself, but there has to be some compromise… at least this early in the game.

  13. negativo:
    09/23/2010 at 12:23 am
    This is exactly why I love Crystal. She realizes two things:

    #1. Jive needs her more than she needs Jive
    #2. If she compromised herself as an artist to make a bullshit pop album it would spell the end of her career.

    So you’re telling me that a multi-billion dollar company “needs” a woman who was playing in subway stations only a short time ago? LOL! This is some of the most delusional stuff I’ve ever heard. Crystal “compromised herself as an artist” the minute she decided to try out for American Idol. If she didn’t want to make mainstream/pop music, then she shouldn’t have tried out for the show. It’s really that simple.

  14. mythofsisyphus:
    09/23/2010 at 12:41 am

    I tend to agree that she’s overestimating her creative and marketing control: Even the hottest acts these days get their hands tied by restrictive contracts in the wake of the failing music market. Honestly, Jive was never going to be the right record label for her, and I truly think her wheelhouse is going to be regional touring/smaller labels where she can basically just publish/produce on her own. Hopefully she doesn’t let her (what I will assume to be) limited run with Jive faze her too much and affect her final product.

    houstonrufus23:
    09/23/2010 at 12:47 am

    Well, good luck to her. For all the idols Jive signs, they sure don’t seem to know how to handle them or shepherd them successfully. My sense is Crystal will ultimately be recording independently. I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple other Idols with Jive won’t be doing that eventually also.

    I’m really rooting for Crystal to put out a kiss-ass album. However, I’m kind of starting to agree with mythofsisyphus and houstonrufus — that Crystal will probably move on to an independent label after her first album so she can more creative control in the future.

  15. I love Crystal, I really do, but it’s this part of her personality that rubs me the wrong way. I know she’s grateful for the platform AI has given her and everything, but she isn’t good at showing it. How many people would do ANYTHING for a major label record deal? Even if it kills her inside, she would be taking the high road by putting on a smiley face, and trying to leave Jive whenever she can.

    I don’t know. She didn’t have to answer those tweets the way she did. She could have said it was wrong and left it at that. But Crystal can do what she wants to whatever :)

  16. Jive makes nothing, zero, zilch, nada if Crystal refuses to give them material. She owns them. They can play whatever games they want, but Crystal is the talent, and the talent runs the show. Jive better learn to play by Crystal’s rules, or else they just lost 100% of the revenue that Crystal would have produced.

    Crystal already received the customary $300k from Jive as an advance for signing, plus whatever she’s making from merchandising, live performances and endorsements, so she can certainly afford to take her own sweet time while holding the label by the short hairs.

    Regarding the more complex legalities, meh… that’s for the lawyers to hash out.

  17. Not thinking she’s gonna last too long. Kelly was able to fight her label because she has a crazy fan base. Crystal hasn’t exactly proven herself just yet.

    I have a feeling Idol will try and forget Season 9 ever happened.

  18. Negativo, 300k is nothing for a label, and the revenue that Crystal might generate will be minimal, unless you are thinking that the will become a huge star, and considering the lack of buzz for the season she was part of, there is no sign that it is likely.

  19. Too bad she signed the recording deal. She could have gone indie like Elliott Yamin and made a bundle riding the post-idol wave, more than she will with the label and all their recoupment schemes. I don’t think she’ll ever be a label lap-dog. Hope it works out for her

  20. Jive needs to play by HER rules? Jive has stars like Britney and Timberlake and other artists who have actually proven to make them money. I hardly think they need Crystal or need to follow her marching orders. Labels shelve albums all the time from people bigger than Crystal. Wonder if Archie who has sold close to a million albums for them is aware that he’s the talent and holds the cards? I’m thinking that’s not happening. If Jive releases her album in the Spring they may even end up in the red if sales are poor.

    ETA: kelly fought RCA and was able to not because of her fanbase but because she’s a grammy winner who sold 20 million albums worldwide, and even Kelly has fought and fought for years and lost battles. Guess she missed the memo the artist rules the show.

  21. When someone takes an advance and doesn’t produce anything within a certain amount of time isn’t that cause for a lawsuit? I’m sure her contract with Jive is quite detailed and in favor of the Jive corporation. Is there a contract stipulation that the label has ultimate control of when material will release? Maybe.. who knows. Basically, whoever fronts the money is in control.. end of story.

    I imagine that Jive can make this a pretty expensive and emotionally draining lesson for Crystal if they set their mind to it. If Jive wants, they will get their money back and it won’t be pretty.

  22. negativo

    LOL — talent runs the show? Since when??? The artist rarely has the final say in anything — and the ones that do are HUGE stars — not people just starting out in the business. Crystal is not U2 or Bruce Springsteen or someone like that. She’s a musician barely anyone had heard of a few months ago, with no track record of commercial or critical success. The label has NO reason to let her tell them what to do. It’s great that she wants to remain true to herself, but that means little to nothing when dealing with a major record label like JIVE.

    From what I understand, Crystal only gets 1/2 the advance upfront — she gets the other half when the album is completed. So she got $150,000 — BEFORE taxes. That’s what — a little bit over $100,000 after taxes? The S9 tour didn’t do well, and, again, from what I heard and saw it was Lee who sold the most merchandise, not Crystal. So I don’t get where you think she’s made a ton of $$$ — she hasn’t.

    And again, Jive hasn’t invested all that much $$$ in Crystal to this point — as far as I can tell, she hasn’t even started recording her album yet and they haven’t had to promote her single or album or spend money on a video. So it’s not like they’d be out very much if they simply cut her loose.

  23. I believe Crystal received $300,000 up front and will receive another $300,000 when the album is completed. At least that’s what Adam and Kriss received last year.

    Although I’m a fan of Crystal’s music, I don’t think she should express her displeasure with Jive in a public forum.

  24. Not according to this NY Times article…

    “Mr. Allen, last year’s winner, earned an advance of $350,000 for his first album, exclusive of recording costs, half of it paid soon after the competition ended and half when he finished recording.”

    “Adam Lambert earned $300,000 in advance royalties for his album (again, paid 1/2 upfront, 1/2 after album was finished), a $75,000 merchandising contract and $50,000 in fees from Disney World for the Idol Experience attraction.”

    So as I said — 1/2 of the advance upfront, 1/2 when the album is finished…

    That means if Crystal drags her feet about making the album because she doesn’t like what Jive wants her to do? — she doesn’t get the other 1/2 of her advance

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/arts/television/24idol.html?_r=1

  25. Has any Idol contestant ever had their album shelved after being signed by a major label?

  26. Wow, that girl can write. That girl can sing. She infused such emotion into her music. Farmer’s Daughter is very powerful stuff. If she doesn’t become a major star, it’s a reflection on jive. The business may have changed in recent years, but there’s always room for a talent like Crystal. I think her album should come out in the Spring. Releasing freshmen idol albums in the Fall is stupid. Spring makes sense: Don’t rush it and then promote it on Idol. I had BETTER see Crystal performing on Idol this season. She’s got more talent in her little finger than most of the idols who ever appeared on the show, or established artist who have performed on it, either.

  27. Crystal should take the matter with her record label, not in a public forum. It’s her right to disagree but she must do it in a professional way. Antagonizing her record label is not the way to go especially when she doesn’t have a successful recording track history yet

  28. Crystal, just get away from twitter .

    And I don’t think that Crystal can be compared to Blake Lewis or Taylor Hicks. They are not a single parent with diabetes. And yes, it makes a difference.

  29. I think Crystal took a breath, and reflected on her previous frustrated tweets. Here are her last two tweets:

    # thanks for all of the support, guys. i have more freedom than most signed artists, so imma stop complaining. i love what i do. i am blessed half a minute ago via web

    # regardless, im having the time of my life. 2 minutes ago via web

  30. now Crystal is re-tweeting a lot of her @replies, several of which are taking shots at her label. IMO, she needs to step away from twitter and think about this.

    ETA: She did just tweet this

    crystalbowersox

    #thanks for all of the support, guys. i have more freedom than most signed artists, so imma stop complaining. i love what i do. i am blessed 37 minutes ago via web

    hopefully she’ll follow her own advice and stop complaining publicly

  31. Brian_C82

    don’t think so. but a few have had the label not give them any real backing /promoafter the release

  32. girlygirl, you’re right about the $150,000 advance. I misread the article – time for me to go to bed. :)

  33. When someone takes an advance and doesn’t produce anything within a certain amount of time isn’t that cause for a lawsuit?

    I do believe that’s correct, and I wonder if that sort of contractual provision is exactly where the friction with Jive is coming from. And considering that the label is apparently paying the contestants 300k advances initially (though, really, this looks more like a signing bonus than an advance since it doesn’t account for recording costs and is given right after the show ends), I would think the damages from said lawsuit are likely to be that 300k in full.

    By the by, if they are indeed characterizing the 300k as an “advance” and not as a signing bonus, then that money is probably recoupable from all her sales (publishing, merchandising, CDs, performances, and endorsements under the standard 360 deal), which means Crystal’s not making a dime unless she breaks even somehow, which, let’s face it, is probably less likely with a later release. Ouch.

    EDIT: Just standardly saying I’m not an expert on the topic, and that the second part should read “doesn’t make a dime above and beyond what she pocketed from the advances”.

  34. Don’t rush it and then promote it on Idol. I had BETTER see Crystal performing on Idol this season.

    If she pisses off 19, especially considering she isnt even managed by them they arent obligated to have her on Idol at all. I wouldnt say releasing in the fall is stupid when you have the all important Christmas shopping going on. The season 9 peeps need all the help they can in that regard.

  35. I would hate to see Crystal get treated the way Taylor and Blake were when their first albums were released. I hope things settle down and she can work out the release date with Jive. I think a fall release would be better for sales. Best to watch what she says on Twitter.

  36. Does Crystal think she can fight Jive publicly and win!! What happened to talking behind closed doors! Why do I think she will get her wishes if she engages Jive in a more professional manner than twitter. Where is Gina when all this is happening? She should give Crystal PR classes or sanction her public utterances. Better still, Crystal should quit twitter as a formal channel of communication. Not nice to keep retracting your random statements when someone has knocked sense into your head. Now she backtracks on her earlier rants. Gosh!

  37. Go indie girl. There’s a world out there and indie fans would embrace you. And contrary to popular belief, I don’t think that indie means less earnings. It’s all about touring your ass off.

    Talent gets lost with major labels, auto-tune wins. That’s why Lee’s debut album is obviously gonna suck. He made a couple of great albums with an indie label that let him keep his soul. Just like Cook did with Analogue Heart. But after idol, the artistic identity gets lost if you’re a musician/song-writer (obviously this does not apply to someone like Adam whose strength relies on the voice and live performances).

    My best wishes to Crystal either way…she was born to make music, hopefully the sky will get less cloudy for her.

  38. cristististi said, “How many people would do ANYTHING for a major label record deal? Even if it kills her inside, she would be taking the high road by putting on a smiley face, and trying to leave Jive whenever she can.”

    Wow. Crystal is (perhaps naively) about the music and reaching the largest audience with it, not the celebrity lifestyle like Bieber or other throw away acts including many who’ve been through the Idol machine. I am disappointed she won’t have an album out there year since she felt she already had enough songs for one. Certainly the label doesn’t want to use her pre-Idol material when it can spend money on people in the system to write or co-write tracks with her. I like Crystal but I don’t know if I’d want to work her with. She’s willful, not just headstrong, and not always smart about it.

    Will her debut single be a cover? Will all her first album singles be written by other people? I’m disappointed in her apparently difficulties with the label but if you look over post Idol albums, they haven’t exactly been great works to be proud of nor reflective of their choices or style on Idol. In that way, I’m glad she is fighting the label because they haven’t shown too much competence handling or willingness to take former Idols seriously. She does have just one shot and success or fail she should make the best album she’s allowed.

    I was surprised, but glad, Kris’ first single reached Platinum. His album hasn’t done great and the 2nd single, which I loathed particularly with the gimmick guest, seems to have gone no where on radio. I hope, whatever his future with Jive, Kris continues to write, record and make it available to fans.

  39. Jive makes nothing, zero, zilch, nada if Crystal refuses to give them material. She owns them. They can play whatever games they want, but Crystal is the talent, and the talent runs the show.

    LOL Thanks for the laughg.
    Crystal will have to make an album for them. If she likes it or not… that’s anothr story. But she’ll do it. And Jive will make money out of her. She doesn’t own them and she doesn’t run anything.

    Good for Crystal for speaking, I’d just like to know how she ever thought Jive would be a label for her and why she believed she’d do her own thing. She’s no kid. She knows people are sht and only want money, did she really think it was gonna be her way?
    Make that album and leave Jive girl.

  40. #1. Jive needs her more than she needs Jive

    LOL Yes they are desperate for indie artists who argue with them.

  41. I’m glad Crystal is exposing the music biz. It is a very different scene than existed just 20-30 years ago and as it currently stands, is crushing the creative spirit. Obviously, she was naive to that reality. Would she have even chosen to go on AI if she had known? Who knows. But as far as I’m concerned, we need more artists standing up for their musical integrity. Its risky, for sure, but how are things ever going to change if folks don’t take risks? Crystal built a community of supporters through the show, and yesterday was a conversation amongst them. Yes, it was in a public place, but that was the only place such a convo could take place. And if it helps to put some pressure on the label, then I’m all for it. It seems like her back was already against the proverbial wall, in terms of her musical integrity. So if the singular goal is to get her music out, why not? In the end, she now has alot of people anxious to hear her music and that is an improvement over her life pre-Idol. I hope they/we get to hear it.

    Putting myself in her shoes, what if I found myself tied up in a contract that wouldn’t let me do what I’m best at or what defines me? What avenues would I take to try to rectify the situation?

  42. On the other side of the coin, this could all be part of a publicity stunt to garner public interest for Crystal. Since S9 has pretty much been written off as one of the worst seasons in AI history and tour didn’t go well, her management may be trying to generate some buzz. By casting Crystal as the rebel, they are hoping to gain some public attention and support for her from the indie community.

    It probably won’t work but nice try. I agree with all that stated that Jive holds the cards. What is $150,000 to Jive when they have Britney, Justin T and Usher on their label who bring in millions of dollars in revenue. Jive could just take the loss and put Crystal into a neverending recording cycle and an album never gets finished. If Crystal truely wants to do things her own way, she simple needs to ask to be released from her contract and give back the advance she has been paid along with any production costs incurred so far.

  43. On the other side of the coin, this could all be part of a publicity stunt to garner public interest for Crystal. Since S9 has pretty much been written off as one of the worst seasons in AI history and tour didn’t go well, her management may be trying to generate some buzz.

    doubtful.. you know because of her integrity and all that. :)

  44. Adam once said in an interview with Lyndsey Parker that he had to compromise on the process of making his record. He said also that there were songs that he liked on his album that he wanted to be released as singles but weren´t because TPTB said that they were not radio hits. He said that he understood, that the music industry works in a way that if you don´t have a hit single you fade away and he did not want that to happen to him. So he compromised and said that by acting like this he was thinking in a long run and hoped once he was a established artist he would have move creative power over his music on the following albums.

    I agree with him. And I think so should Crystal! She has to learn how to pic her battles, otherwise… she´ll get dropped and just fade away!

    And who said that Jive does not need Crystal… you´re totally right! Crystal who?

  45. Adam once said in an interview with Lyndsey Parker that he had to compromise on the process of making his record. He said also that there were songs that he liked on his album that he wanted to be released as singles but weren´t because TPTB said that they were not radio hits. He said that he understood, that the music industry works in a way that if you don´t have a hit single you fade away and he did not want that to happen to him. So he compromised and said that by acting like this he was thinking in a long run and hoped that would have move creative power over his music on the following albums.

    Hmm, I doubt it he will have much more creative freedom on the following albums. Why? Because music industry is still the same and radio still plays only radio friendly songs. So, he will still need hit singles – that’s crucial for pop artists, he will continue his fight for radio’s attention. His label will continue picking his singles … That’s just the way it is. Even pop artists with many big hits have a flop once in a while and they still have to release radio friendly songs.

  46. I love that she doesn’t sell out … or at least tries not to. It’s hard not to sell out in this corporate culture we’re stuck in right now. It won’t last forever if people don’t let it.

  47. Jive makes nothing, zero, zilch, nada if Crystal refuses to give them material. She owns them. They can play whatever games they want, but Crystal is the talent, and the talent runs the show.

    And if she refuses to give them material Jive can tie her up in litigation for so long that even the most devoted of fans won’t remember who she is.

    I thought Crystal was smarter than this.
    Happy or not she signed with Jive and is in a partnership with them. You have these sorts of discussions with a partner in private, not over Twitter with freaking fantards.

    Not only does Jive hold all the cards, they own the poker table the game is being played on as well as the casino in which it is built. As much as we want to believe that she is a special snowflake, Crystal is one of the masses of very talented girls out there trying to make a career. If she can’t be grateful for the break she has gotten and learn how to behave in a professional manner there are thousands of girls behind her in line that Jive can do just as well with.
    She is easily replaceable.

    I think Crystal’s predilection toward shooting off her mouth without thinking is going to bite her in the butt so hard…
    It’s not 100% “about the music” guys- she has to learn how to successfully navigate corporate waters if she expects to have any sort of viable career.
    And thinking before you speak (or tweet) is lesson #1.

  48. Compromise… At this point I think it’s important. Has Crystal even started recording? Did she even meet up with any writers? If not then maybe it’s too soon to say that what jive wants is intolerable. She says she doesn’t have a boss, she has backing. Well, then she can’t get fired but…..( fill inthe blank). I wish the best for Crystal, and just hope she gets good advice. I don’t know much about business, but I’ve heard that authors with book advances have deadlines they have to meet, etc. Seems this could be similar, cause Crystal’s input is the music, then they have to do their stuff to it to make it ready for sale.

  49. If her album flops/and or there are no hit singles, it will be one and done with Jive.

    I’m beginning to wonder if it will even by one. Labels really don’t like it when their artists take these internal fights public. Most artists demure and say that they had discussions with their labels. Public skirmishes before the album is even finished are rare. It’s called stakeholder management. Crystal could have responded to this information privately.

    Jive makes nothing, zero, zilch, nada if Crystal refuses to give them material. She owns them.

    Yes. They can’t force her to give them material. Exactly so. But, they don’t have to give her much either. If they don’t like the album, they don’t even have to release it. And they typically have 6 months after recording to decide. So, say she delivers her album in the spring and they decide “screw her”, they can make her wait until late fall next year before releasing her. Even if they do release her album, they can just drop it and not do much to promote it (see Kristy Lee Cook). Then they can keep her on a string and not release her from her contract for months.

    Why would they be purposely difficult? Keep the other artists behaving. They may consider it money well spent.

    If she pisses off 19, especially considering she isnt even managed by them they arent obligated to have her on Idol at all.

    Diana’s mother pissed off 19. She was the runner-up in Season 2 and did not get invited back onto the show until Season 9 (to sing back-up in the Simon farewell number). Katharine who came in second in S5 did not get invited back on the show until S7 (nobody knows why). So there is no guarantee that even a runner-up will be invited back on the show. (I seem to recall Justin didn’t appear until S3 either, but due to the 6 month clause and S2 following so closely after S1, he probably didn’t have anything to promote until S3).

    Has any Idol contestant ever had their album shelved after being signed by a major label?

    In Season 1, Nikki (3rd) was signed by RCA but did not release an album. They wanted her to go country and she wanted do rock. It was a while before they released her from her contract.

  50. Jive seems like a label who doesn’t really care about their Idols anymore so I don’t think Crystal will be getting much promo in any case. I could see Crystal selling 150K albums or so and then being dropped. She could then record with a smaller label where she’ll have more control.

    Pretty amazing that she didn’t educate herself about how Idols are treated by labels before this happened.

  51. Not only does Jive hold all the cards, they own the poker table the game is being played on as well as the casino in which it is built. As much as we want to believe that she is a special snowflake, Crystal is one of the masses of very talented girls out there trying to make a career. If she can’t be grateful for the break she has gotten and learn how to behave in a professional manner there are thousands of girls behind her in line that Jive can do just as well with.
    She is easily replaceable.

    You got it right there. Welcome reality. Saying that, I do wish the best for Crystal and look forward to her album.

  52. I have to say I really admire this woman. I can’t imagine what Jive was thinking when they signed her: she is not a pop singer and I don’t think they can twist her into one. I hope Crystal is communicating with and paying attention to people in the business she has met.

  53. Twitter and other social networking needs to be treated with care. Employers, law enforcement, even criminals are tracking what you say. So guard your Twitter tongue and don’t say something you’ll regret.

  54. Crystal needs to realize that twitter isn’t her friend. It’s one thing to talk to someone close to you about your problems with Jive but another to put it out there for everyone to see. Apparently she didn’t learn her lesson from during Idol.

  55. I think someone got their hand slapped. Crystal is right she is blessed. At least she will have some say in her album which is a lot more than most new artists get.

  56. I have a hard time respecting anyone that blunders about in a profession demanding it their way or the highway, especially when they haven’t managed to prove themselves. All business and careers are built on levels of compromise, and if she thinks that she’s going to get anywhere without budging on her wants in some form, she’s not going to go anywhere.

    Even Indie singers have to compromise on certain things to get what they want. If she has any bit of common sense, she’ll meet the label half way until she earns her right to start dictating.

  57. Being successful means different things to different people and a lot of that depends on where you begin the journey. In Crystal’s case she literally started with nothing but her talent, her son, and her integrity.

    To say she “only” received $150,000 is a matter of perception. That may well be more than she earned in the last 5-10 years so it would be a fortune to her even after taxes. Crystal has said from the beginning she just wanted to do her music and give her son a better life than she had. I have absolutely NO doubt she can now do that. There are former AI contestants all over the country who are still making a living being billed as “former AI stars” and some of them finished WAY lower than Crystal did. Given a choice between what the label and what some fans might consider to be “success” and her integrity as an artist, it looks to me like Crystal will go with keeping her integrity and that suits me just fine.

  58. Why would they be purposely difficult? Keep the other artists behaving. They may consider it money well spent.

    In Crystal’s case, it’s not just Jive involved, it is also 19E, and they will want to make sure that she hasn’t set a precedent with complaining to her fanbase and having her way.
    So, even if I like her rebellious spirit, I am starting to think that she may have shot herself in the foot for good.

  59. To say she “only” received $150,000 is a matter of perception. That may well be more than she earned in the last 5-10 years so it would be a fortune to her even after taxes. Crystal has said from the beginning she just wanted to do her music and give her son a better life than she had. I have absolutely NO doubt she can now do that.

    If she has to pay that back, or has to hire lawyers to settle contract issues, she could wind up with only her integrity as an artist. I don’t think she will necessarily be worse off, because she does have recognition and fans, but she runs the risk of alienating important contacts she will need for future marketing.

  60. Wasn’t it just a few days ago on this blog that Crystal recalled how she was almost dropped from the show because of being ill and how she pleaded for Idol to let her continue? If getting a second chance in the hopes of being signed was so important then, what’s happened since. I really don’t understand Crystal at all. I can’t think a good way to describe her performance style except low-keyed and amiable which is in stark contrast to how she deals with her label. It would serve her well to practice a little of her stage persona when dealing with Jive. And while her fans love her and think she does no wrong, her attitude might be off-putting to others and not a good way to gain new fans.

  61. Most likely scenario: Crystal records an album of acoustic originals. Jive is mad and wants some Pop 40 singles that fit their hit making formula. Crystal tells Jive to stick it. Jive must decide to release her when she’s hot and make what they can or write it off as a total loss.

    In the end, Jive will cave in and take what they can make off the Indie Crystal album. It’s all about the money, kiddies. Personal spite loses to money every time in this business.

  62. Jive seems like a label who doesn’t really care about their Idols anymore

    you got that right jpfan, lol. crystal, talented, fiery crystal, god bless her, is naive to think she is running anything, regardless of whatever freedom she and her fans may think she holds. imo,picking this kind of battle so early and publicly, before establishing some kind of track record sales wise for jive, or earning a measure of industry clout is foolhardy. i’m talking from experience, both personal and career. and from following the goings on in the music business, and the careers of many artists like crystal for years. i’m a scrapper too, and believe in sticking up for yourself, the music industry is tough and artists must be willing at times to fight tooth, nail and claw for things they want, or to maintain a semblance of their artistic integrity, but the bottom line is it’s a business, and one not set up to favor the interests of the artist, at all, especially those signed to majors. how she or other like minded singers would fare on the independent track remains to be seen. gotta pick your battles wisely, and timely, with hopefully some leverage or something else you can bring to the table to help your cause. crystal is fighting one with the deck and the odds stacked against her from the get go, so i really hope she is getting good counsel or advice from someone on her team regarding the best way to handle her ‘creative differences’ with her label. i am no lover of jive, i and we can say whatever the heck we want about them, anytime or place we feel like it – but then we aren’t the ones bound contractually to them, and all that entails. the ”stick it to the man”, power to the people hoohah and rhetoric being tossed around is laughable, and exposes a naivete to how things in the real world – especially the music world – really works. i’m hoping it’s being thrown around for comedic effect, for levity. if her goal is to create an atmosphere that is conducive to jive releasing her, and her getting the op to pursue her career along the independent route, then more power to her – she’s doing a great job laying that groundwork. as long as she is on a major, any major, not only this crappy one, she like every other brand new artist will have to compromise and play their game. i wish her luck, and don’t envy her at all in this battle.

  63. To say she “only” received $150,000 is a matter of perception

    Oh I agree with you.. but I doubt she is setting up shop in OH. It costs real money to live/rent a place in a metro area. Plus I would think that she now has childcare costs, even if a friend is watching. Often as your income goes up, so do your expenses even if you are used to living on a shoe string budget. I’d love to see her cashing in on the rest of what is offered to her before she completely thumbs her nose at the establishment.

  64. I wonder if some contestants do any kind of homework at all before auditioning for Idol. This should not come as a surprise to Crystal. It is the game that must be played if you get a contract with them. Crystal is not popular enough to change the game. In fact, Carrie Underwood is probably the only Idol who could have demanded anything when she won and gotten it. Whatever Crystal decides, whether to compromise or not, it would be worth her effort to stay civil with the industry. The bridge burners suffer for years.

  65. In the end, Jive will cave in and take what they can make off the Indie Crystal album. It’s all about the money, kiddies. Personal spite loses to money every time in this business.

    Tell that to Clive. The dude dragged himself out of his crypt to diss Kelly and “My December” at every chance (and everybody knew he was dissing her on Idol while praising Carrie). The guy had never been so talkative. He did his level best to sink that album and the leaks out of RCA (about all the meetings and all the execs worrying about what a crappy album it was) were like flood.

    Why did he do it? Why did he set out to destroy an album which RCA had spent a lot of money recording? The only logical reason was to teach Kelly and the other artists a lesson. “You have to compromise”.

    The suits will argue that this is necessary. If Crystal gets away with winning this very public fight, why wouldn’t other artists do it? Can Jive survive if all their artists make exactly the album they want with no commercial considerations? Maybe if every other label in the industry grants their artists the same freedom, but unlikely in the current climate. Jive needs to make money somewhere and it may make sense to lose money on this project if it means that they can make money on other projects with artists who understand the message and work with the label so that they can both achiever their goals.

    This isn’t all happening in a vacuum.

    Though, sometimes labels and PR people do plant “Rebel Artist” stories in the press to make it seem like the artist fought and won.

  66. In the end, Jive will cave in and take what they can make off the Indie Crystal album. It’s all about the money, kiddies. Personal spite loses to money every time in this business.

    First of all Crystal really isn’t that “hot” and much of the expense of an album is promo and marketing. So if Jives cares about $, the smartest thing is not to bother with Crystal’s album at all. It’s probably going to be tough for them to make much $ with her even under the best circumstances.

  67. It’s all about the money, kiddies. Personal spite loses to money every time in this business.

    It is all about the money & who ever has the money has the power. Hopefully Jive won’t decide to take their ball and go home.

  68. There’s a fine line between maintaining integrity and stubborn pride laden with entitlement. If she were really concerned with her integrity, she’d face the fact that she chose to go this route to boost her career chances and act in a professional manner, not like some rebellious teenager.

  69. Well, it looks like Gina finally checked twitter and gave Crystal a call. Crystal has had a difficult life and has had to fight to get what she needs. But in this case maybe she needs to learn to work with professionals who have a lot more experience than she does.
    It seems like I saw recently a list of new artists that Jive had signed who seemed to be of the Indie persuasion. I sincerely doubt Jive is looking to turn Crystal into a pop princess. Singers like Sheryl Crow have had hits without being pop. Alison was a different case-a teenager with the voice of an older but wiser woman-who should have been singing rock.Crystal knows who she is.

    Crystal has barely started the recording process. I hope she can work with the professional songwriters to turn some of her ideas into memorable hits. And I hope she keeps her battles with Jive behind the scenes in the future, because they hold the majority of the cards. Making angry statements on twitter is not the way to go.
    I hope the people sending her tweets and egging her on will be there for her if she blows this great opportunity she has been given.

    Adam was thrilled with the recording process last year and happy with the outcome. Lee is really upbeat in all his interviews and tweets. He said yesterday he has written on all the songs. At his twitter party last night he said choosing which one will be the single will be hard-it’s like choosing your favorite child. So he seems to have a lot of creative control. Is RCA really so different from Jive?

    Lee and Crystal were my favs this season and I really want Crystal to be successful. I hope we get an album from her.

  70. Crystal recors an album of acoustic originals. Jive is mad and wants some Pop 40 singles that fit their hit making formula. Crystal tells Jive to stick it. Jive must decide to release her when she’s hot and make what they can or write it off as a total loss.

    In the end, Jive will cave in and take what they can make off the Indie Crystal album. It’s all about the money, kiddies. Personal spite loses to money every time in this business.

    as of right now, crystal is a loss leader for them – she hasn’t brought in a dime, or begun to recoup any of the monies advanced to her, or spent in recording or promoting her, so if jive wanted to, they can – if she continues bucking them or trying to exert authority she doesn’t have, really shelve this cd, not lift a finger to promote or support her in any way, damage her reputation and then write the whole thing off as a cost of doing business – probably get a nice break tax wise too, while she would be left with nothing – except her artistic integrity, which she could then shop around to other labels. new artists are a dime a dozen to these labels, she hasn’t made them any real money yet, nor does she bring with her, like other alums in the past, a sizable base of fans to exploit, nor does she bring any buzz, or media interest they could leverage. the system is set up to favor them, and even if worse came to worse, and she and they parted ways, i guarantee they will still come out ahead financially in the matter, whereas they could make it extremely difficult for her – financially and otherwise if they wanted… she would have her freedom then, to record and release whatever she wants, but it may be a pryhhic victory for her, at best.

  71. Yes. They can’t force her to give them material. Exactly so. But, they don’t have to give her much either.

    Bingo.

    I suspect that Crystal got enough attention from her Idol stint to buy her a much better indie career than she was managing before the show, with bigger better live gigs, some nice indie albums down the line, and some opportunities to write for others. I’m hoping that’s what she wants, because I seriously doubt that a public fight at this point with Jive — no matter how stupid Jive may be — is going to net her any more than that, in the end.

    Oh, and stay off the Twitter, Crystal. Social Networking is probably not your friend when it comes to an individual fight with a large corporation.

  72. First of all Crystal really isn’t that “hot” and much of the expenses of an album is spend on promo and marketing. So if Jives cares about $, the smartest thing is not to bother with Crystal’s album at all.

    Sad but true.

    In fact, they can end up making money by holding it under some certain circumstances. They still have rights to whatever masters she records for them. Even if they hold it throughout the usual term of her album cycle for not being “commercially viable” and eventually drop her, and even if another label picks her up (which, by the way, grows less likely the longer she remains out of the spotlight), they can wait to see if she builds a fanbase with that other label and then put out the original album. Minimal promo costs, and they’d still get the profit.

  73. Ugh, does she expect people to feel sorry for her for finishing second on Idol, touring the country, getting private performance opportunities and a major label record deal? Must be tough.

    Try showing some humility & professionalism, Crystal, and step away from twitter indefinitely.

  74. negativo:
    09/23/2010 at 9:28 am
    Most likely scenario: Crystal records an album of acoustic originals. Jive is mad and wants some Pop 40 singles that fit their hit making formula. Crystal tells Jive to stick it. Jive must decide to release her when she’s hot and make what they can or write it off as a total loss.

    And where is Jive while she’s recording this acoustic collections of originals? It seems like they would be there during the whole process, not just show up for the finished product, and then decide it wasn’t what they wanted.

  75. As far as Jive taking Crystal to court to recoup any money she’s received I kinda doubt that. That money isn’t that much to a big label and the publicity would cost them a lot more than they would gain. My prediction is that both sides will reach an agreement somewhere in the middle of all this. There are at least 4-5 months of time between what Jive is saying and what Crystal is saying for a release date. There’s plenty of time for a compromise.

  76. By the by, if they are indeed characterizing the 300k as an “advance” and not as a signing bonus, then that money is probably recoupable from all her sales (publishing, merchandising, CDs, performances, and endorsements under the standard 360 deal), which means Crystal’s not making a dime unless she breaks even somehow, which, let’s face it, is probably less likely with a later release. Ouch.

    This isn’t true at all

    Also, people are forgetting that in addition to the $150,000 she has made already in advances everyone on tour makes over $100,000.

    Also, I don’t understand where people are making the leap that she isn’t going to record at all for Jive?! That just seems like crazy speculation to me. She was pissed off that her album was listed as a Fall release although she was probably still pushing for a spring release. Sorry that would piss me off too. Not the best idea to take it to twitter.

    However, she has already mentioned some of the songs she has sung publicly will be on the album. She obviously has plans to record, so I don’t know where the crazy speculation is coming from. Crystal will record the album. I don’t know if it will be in spring or fall, but it will be released and she will make her $300,000.

    Also, it still amazes me how many people are willing to defend the label lol. Poor million dollar label, we need to defend their right to peddle crap.

  77. I have no experience in the music business but I have spent lots of years in corporate America and KNOW that Crystal is diligently cutting off her nose to spite her face. The woman so reminds me of all the “free spirits” who love to think that their talents are so mind-boggling that they can thumb their noses at the establishment and that they will be successful without the “suits” that tend to administer the rules. Life, as we know it, just doesn’t work in favor of the odd duck…it is all about toeing the line and doing the required thing until one has made enough impact to put on the “suit” themselves (and even then there is always another corporate flunky ready to steal your thunder).

    Many of us grow-up believing in the hundreds of fairy tales that we are taught. But they are called fairy tales for a reason…real life just doesn’t end when someone gets to go to the ball and meet the prince. After that it is hard work and diligence and compromise and fighting selective battles and smiling….something that Crystal still needs to learn about life. No one in the real world really gives a damn about what happens to her, no one is willing to give up their minor achievements to fight her battles, no one will picket Jive on her behalf. She is in this battle alone and just because peeps give her lip service and say they support her they won’t march to her defense when the battle is lost.

  78. Oh negativo, you provided me with a much needed laugh this morning. Are you new to following Idols post careers?

    Crystal has no cards as far as Jive is concerned. She’s got a small runner-up fanbase and no track record. If I were Jive, I’d say 150k to prove a point is money well spent. Shelve the album and let her go indie. It’s probably better off for the both of them.

  79. Life, as we know it, just doesn’t work in favor of the odd duck…it is all about toeing the line and doing the required thing until one has made enough impact to put on the “suit” themselves (and even then there is always another corporate flunky ready to steal your thunder).

    OT but what a depressing way of looking at life. I don’t think this is true at all for some people. I think the disconnect for your understanding is that Crystal and many others don’t have the desire to be the suit. Ever. Plenty of people have lived happy productive lives without kowtowing to corporations.

  80. Maybe Crystal should contact her label mate Kris. I’m sure he had the same problems with them in the beginning (LET IT RAIN any one?), but we never heard anything and if this song hadn’t made the album, he wouldn’t have said anything. I’m sure he fell on some of his fellow idols for advice and kept mute.
    But guess what? he was able to get a song he wrote pre-idol, and 8 + co-writes which is a start and ther are many he wrote with people that didn’t make the album and are on BMI site. David Cook the same, and to me that is an amazing control for a new artist. But guess what David didn’t have any of them released as a single and so far, Kris hasn’t , so what?
    There’s more in this business than many of us think. I think Crystal should call any of these two guys for info about how to compromise and at the same time stay true to yourself.

  81. There are at least 4-5 months of time between what Jive is saying and what Crystal is saying for a release date. There’s plenty of time for a compromise.

    bottom line then is that she will have to compromise – which makes all this posturing and going off on twitter useless, and just perpetuates an image of her being ‘difficult’. misogyny is still alive and well in this industry, and she is too early and unproven in her career to be saddled with that ‘difficult’ tag… gaga can be ‘difficult’ and survive, beyonce can be ‘difficult’ and survive – crystal bowersox being ‘difficult’… at this stage of her major label career, not so much.

  82. She obviously has plans to record, so I don’t know where the crazy speculation is coming from. Crystal will record the album.

    I didn’t say that she wouldn’t. I said the label could refuse to release it if it were not considered commercially viable. It has happened before.

    I happen to think that Jive signing CB was idiotic; they don’t have the resources or strategies for her. But the fact is their playbook is a known quantity, and if an artist chooses to sign a contract in which the other party has most of the power, that artist should damn well know what the terms are before getting in too deep. Girl could have backed out in Hollywood if she didn’t like what she was seeing.

  83. Reminder:

    Editing posts now. Respond to your fellow posters without using insults, please.

  84. I think the disconnect for your understanding is that Crystal and many others don’t have the desire to be the suit. Ever. Plenty of people have lived happy productive lives without kowtowing to corporations.

    Unfortunately Crystal at the moment is in the ‘corporation’. She has to decide to work it out or get out. A loose employee is always a liability in any corporation regardless of how good they are. That’s life.

  85. LOL yep all about the money. Since all the money is usually spent on promo they can just treat Crystal like a queen by letting her record all her own stuff and drop the album out without a penny on promo. Jive is utter shit lately in the promo department anyway.

    The fact that Crystal started with so little and begged Idol to keep her on makes her griping even more baffling. Someone like her should realize its very easy to go back to nothing.

    ETA: yes Lee has been nothing but very nice on Twitter about everything. I suspect he too has had the occassional difference of opinion with RCA but at least he’s keeping quiet and sounds just very grateful he gets to make an album.

  86. Artists fighting with labels is not new, but Twitter is. For all we know past Idols have had similar moments but we just didn’t know about them. Bowing off steam on Twitter is probably not a great idea.

    But I’m not prepared to declare her career over or anything. Lets see what happens. Her manager used to work with that label and knows the business. She is working with some good people on the songwriting side. Maybe a happy medium will be reached. Fingers crossed.

  87. Type 1 Diabetics can go through wild mood swings .. my ex wife was type 1. Not good memories when she was like that.

    Seriously? I’m not going to touch this one.

    nobody will give a shit

    I don’t think many outside her fan following really give a shit now.. which is what Crystal doesn’t yet realize.

  88. aww, mj. It was meant to be a joke. Point taken.

    It doesn’t necessarily come across that way, so everyone, please be mindful…

  89. Ugh, does she expect people to feel sorry for her for finishing second on Idol, touring the country, getting private performance opportunities and a major label record deal? Must be tough.

    Try showing some humility & professionalism, Crystal, and step away from twitter indefinitely.

    I´ve never seen or heard anything from Crystal that reads she´s “sorry for herself” but often to the contrary.

    So many comment here that seem to ignore her latest tweet which was:

    thanks for all of the support, guys. i have more freedom than most signed artists, so imma stop complaining. i love what i do. i am blessed

    And where is Jive while she’s recording this acoustic collections of originals?

    Why do you say it´s acoustic? She has mentioned “great sound” about her studio work with Jeff Kazee in NY. Nothing about acoustic

  90. OT but what a depressing way of looking at life. I don’t think this is true at all for some people. I think the disconnect for your understanding is that Crystal and many others don’t have the desire to be the suit. Ever. Plenty of people have lived happy productive lives without kowtowing to corporations.

    it’s not depressing, it is what it is. if you choose to work for a large corporation, or sign your name on the dotted line like crystal did, you lose large chunks of autonomy, and you don’t have the ability to dictate the terms of your tenure – unless you are coming in as a ceo, or an established artist, bringing something big to the table to use as leverage. you are agreeing and choosing to abide by the rules set forth, by them. if you cannot work or perform within those parameters, then best not to work in corporate america, or sign in this case to a major label. she may be a musician, but it is jive’s tune she will dance to as long as she is contractually obligated to do so. it’s doubtful she was able to negotiate anything differently before she signed, so she either does a lot of things their way, or when the time comes, she can go indie, and have the freedom and control over her career she evidently wants. welcome to life, in the real world crystal. you can’t always get what you want, and as long as you work or sign to a major record label, until you show and prove your value or commercial worth to them, it’s their way, or the highway, and not the other way around.

  91. I think a better word for “suit” might be “clout”. I think Crystal’s defiance (?) indicates loudly that she has no desire to be a “suit” but without “clout” she might not get heard. American Idol gives these talented people access to a major label with top notch people, equipment, promo, etc so this is what she tried out for and got. It will all be worked out for everyone’s benefit I hope and Crystal will put out an album she can live with. And it might be to her benefit if she saved some of her originals for when she did have more control.

  92. Why do you say it´s acoustic? She has mentioned “great sound” about her studio work with Jeff Kazee in NY. Nothing about acoustic

    That was in reference to a comment negativo said, I was just saying that if she records, acoustic or not, that it won’t be without Jive overseeing it, so the compromise(?) will have to be while recording/writing and not after. I have no doubt Crystal will sound great.

  93. @crystalbowersox tweets: We love exactly what you do. Now do it differently. We can’t have an Indy type artist on a major label. Why the bleep not?

    Adam was thrilled with the recording process last year and happy with the outcome. Lee is really upbeat in all his interviews and tweets. He said yesterday he has written on all the songs. At his twitter party last night he said choosing which one will be the single will be hard-it’s like choosing your favorite child. So he seems to have a lot of creative control. Is RCA really so different from Jive?

    I don’t think it’s RCA giving the guys more freedom than Jive is giving Crystal; it’s that Adam and Lee are more diplomatic than Crystal. David Cook went on the record about how great RCA was about making the record he wanted when he was promoting his record, and has never said a bad thing in public about any label disputes, but you read between the lines, and you hear his producer say things about compromising because the label wanted to cater to the cougar set. I bet you David’s heard the same thing from RCA that Crystal tweeted above about loving what she’s done but wanting something different, and not being so indie. I mean, David said he submitted all his pre-Idol solo songs (all of Analog Heart and all of the never-released follow-up to AH), and RCA only put one of those songs on the album (and it was one that didn’t sound indie at all).

    And a loose-lipped friend of David’s recently posted in a message board about how he wasn’t allowed to talk online about David’s “label politics” and implied there’ve been and continue to be disagreements about single selections, etc. IMO the difference is not RCA vs. Jive—it’s that David, Adam, and Lee are better at holding their tongue than Crystal. I really like Crystal, but she is not Kelly Clarkson. I kinda love the shit Kelly gives RCA in public, but Crystal really shouldn’t start talking like Kelly until she’s sold millions of records, IMO.

  94. And yes, we must remember that she tweeted that she feels grateful and says no more complaints. Sounds like a good idea. For the moment.

  95. koshka: I don’t think many outside her fan following really give a shit now.. which is what Crystal doesn’t yet realize.

    I’ll be interested in seeing if the mainstream media picks up on Crystal’s tweets. For starters you’d think Michael Slezak and Jim Cantiello would be on this since they’re on the Idol beat and same thing with Brian Mansfield, Richard Rushfield, and Shirley Halperin.

    I don’t think Crystal is waging her battles wisely and I think it will get in the way of her getting to release the music that she wants. Is there really so little communication between Crystal and Jive right now?

  96. And a loose-lipped friend of David’s recently posted in a message board about how he wasn’t allowed to talk online about David’s “label politics” and implied disagreements about single selections, etc.

    To be fair, said “loose-lipped friend” has posted any number of things that just aren’t credible. Even in the best case scenario, I don’t think he has a clue and is discussing things he doesn’t really understand. In the worst case…well. He wouldn’t be the first old friend of Cook’s to be using the connection for his own reasons.

    Now, Cavallo talking about the first album? I buy that things were going on behind closed doors then.

    Which is CB’s current situation, or at least would be if she were keeping them there. But I’m not sure it’s just discretion. I also think the other musicians, having spent more time in professional performing circles, may have had a little bit better understanding of how the market works and so came in with, shall we say, more informed understanding of what the deal meant.

  97. it’s that David, Adam, and Lee are better at holding their tongue than Crystal.

    True, but “fame and fortune”, may mean more to them “no matter what” than it does to Crystal. When one enters the “Rat Race” even if you win, you´re still a rat :)

  98. So many comment here that seem to ignore her latest tweet which was:

    thanks for all of the support, guys. i have more freedom than most signed artists, so imma stop complaining. i love what i do. i am blessed

    Nope I’m not ignoring it, but IMO that tweet strikes me very much as someone who got their handslapped after being too loose-lipped. She might be grateful but she also better start learning to think before tweeting.

  99. Looks like it’s going to be a tumultuous relationship with Bowersox and her label. Kind of early to be butting heads. What did she think was going to happen? Does she really think that an unproven second place finisher on AI is going to have control over what happens with the release of a first CD? She can’t be that ignorant, perhaps this is all just a fake dust up to garner publicity.

  100. Nope I’m not ignoring it, but IMO that tweet strikes me very much as someone who got their handslapped after being too loose-lipped. She might be grateful but she also better start learning to think before tweeting.

    Does it matter how or why she took a deep breath, recomposed herself and then informed her fans, that despite everything, that she felt grateful and blessed. Even stating and admitting that she had more artistic freedom than most others?

  101. True, but “fame and fortune”, may mean more to them “no matter what” than it does to Crystal. When one enters the “Rat Race”, even if you win, you´re still a rat

    David and Adam have both put out albums and don’t seem to be painted with that brush. Both seem to be working within the system and yet are still their own people. Lee is working hard on his album and seems happy with it’s progress. And we may never know how negotiations went behind closed doors because they chose to keep these things private. Doesn’t make them sell-outs, just prudent. And if Crystal bends a little, doesn’t make her one either. And what do you mean exactly by rat race?

  102. is not RCA vs. Jive—it’s that David, Adam, and Lee are better at holding their tongue than Crystal.

    Adam? Really? :) Just joking. But yes! They know how to play the game, get what they want along with giving what TPTB want!

    Eriko:
    09/23/2010 at 11:02 am
    it’s that David, Adam, and Lee are better at holding their tongue than Crystal.

    True, but “fame and fortune”, may mean more to them “no matter what” than it does to Crystal. When one enters the “Rat Race”, even if you win, you´re still a rat

    I do not agree with this! It´s a value thing that we have no way of knowing! Just because they compromised a little bit in the game, looking for a long run in the future, it doesn´t mean they´re all in for the money! And you know what, integrity aside… in the end of the day Crystal wants money too, you know

  103. True, but “fame and fortune”, may mean more to them “no matter what” than it does to Crystal. When one enters the “Rat Race”, even if you win, you´re still a rat

    Or maybe they realize what an opportunity they were offered and FREELY accepted and signed on for American Idol and their respective contracts. Crystal signed up for AI, she signed with Jive. If she didn’t realize the consequences and compromises sometimes required, that’s on her. She should have done her research.

  104. Doesn’t make them sell-outs, just prudent. And if Crystal bends a little, doesn’t make her one either. And what do you mean exactly by rat race?

    I never said they were sell-outs, nor did I assert anything. I just threw it out, MAYBE, “fame and fortune” was a priority so high, they didn´t want to do anything that could remotely risk that from happening.

    Mean by rat race? I guess, doing what ever it takes to get ahead in the financial and/or fame category. Something most of us get caught in, intentionally or not. Again, it was a big “maybe” and not intended to put anyone down

  105. There have been indications from pretty much every Idol who signed with a major label — from Kelly to Kris and from Justin to Adam, Elliot, Daughtry, etc — that they have had battles with the label about their music. Just this ast season, both Kris and Adam have talked in interviews about having to compromise. Even though he’s never come out and said it, it’s pretty clear Kris did not want TT o be his 2nd single and did not want Pat M on the song. David Cook has talked about stuff like this as well. So it’s not like fighting with the label is anything new — the difference is that — except for Kelly — these fights have pretty much been kept behind closed doors. And even Kelly didn’t really have public fights with the label –or with ex-boyfriends — until after she was already well established.

    In the end, Crystal will have to compromise — she’ll make the album and Jive will release it and promote it to some extent depending on how much commercial viability they think it has. Hopefully the album will retain enough of Crystal’s musical sensibility that she won’t hate it. Then, 6-12 months later, maybe Jive will release her from the contract and she can try and find a label that’s a better fit for her.

  106. Adam may be loose lipped and non-filtered about some things, mainly personal things, but he’s definitely good at PR when it comes to RCA and the album. I’m sure there were discussions when he got what he wanted and other times not. Cook as well and likely Lee. Kris has made a few comments here and there about TT that you can read between the lines.

    I guess Crystal should have done her homework a bit more on Idol and what happens if you do make it on the show and get signed. Perhaps she and Jive would be better off parting ways before too much money is spent.

  107. Crystal has other idols on the Jive label she could go to for advice or vent if needed. There is no need for her to go public. I am sure Jordin, David A. & Kris would be open to being a shoulder to lean on. Kris has talked about the compromises he had to make from selecting songs for the album and singles. Kris had Daughtry in his corner as someone to help guide him.

  108. Even Allison had a shout out to Jive in her last Scars performance. ‘Do you know how hard I tried, to become what you want me to be.. Jive’

    I think that’s why I’m leaning to maybe it’s better to part ways beforehand, before album drop.

  109. And even Kelly didn’t really have public fights with the label –or with ex-boyfriends — until after she was already well established.

    Isn´t kind of extreme to call these couple tweets a “public fight”?

    And now the “ex-boyfriend” is something Crystal put out publicly? Was she supposed to deny or say “no comment” when asked? She just said gracefully, that her ex was a great guy and was thankful to him and wished him the best

    So public fights are ok, but only as long as you are well established, otherwise, shut up?

  110. Crystal is new to all this. She will make mistakes no doubt. Woulda should coulda. LOL She’ll either learn as she goes along or she won’t.

    She’s also in a slightly different position than some of the past Idols, in that her goals may be markedly different than the label’s. That is not always the case. If the music you feel you were born to make is in the label’s wheelhouse, you may have some arguing over song choices, but generally you are all on the same page. Or, maybe they want you in one money making box but you are really interested in another money making box (like Carrie, who fought to be country as opposed to pop) the nature of the argument is different, but in the end the potential for high profit is still there.

    Crystal’s soul is in a type of music that is not reliable cash generator. She’s more like Taylor as opposed to Carrie, Kelly, Cook, Adam, whoever. So the nature of her battles are different IMO. She can talk to the others but she’s going to have to figure out how to handle this one all on her own.

  111. Eriko

    huh? the ex-boyfriend comment in my post was about Kelly’s public fights with (ETA): David Hodges. NOT anything to do with Crystal.

    But yes — Crystal should learn to keep her problems with Jive private. Vent to family & friends if she needs to. It does her no good to air dirty laundry in public before she’s even released any music. Personally I don’t think Kelly should have made her fights with her label public, either — but because she was already established, she had more leverage and more cred than someone just starting out does.

  112. I do not agree with this!

    renataamelo There´s nothing to agree with. I said “may” But I do think Crystal´s priorities differ somewhat. To what extend and exactly where, I don´t know?

  113. the ex-boyfriend comment in my post was about Kelly’s public fights with Ryan Tedder.

    Kelly never dated Ryan – the one you are thinking of is David Hodges.

    I enjoy Crystal’s honesty even as it makes me worry for her. The one thing I am especially grateful for is that her tweets always give rise to great “controversy” threads.

  114. huh? the ex-boyfriend comment in my post was about Kelly’s public fights with Ryan Tedder. NOT anything to do with Crystal.

    Read that way to me, sorry. But why bring Kelly´s ex-boy friend into this? How does that relate to this thread?

  115. After re-reading Crystal´s tweets and much of what has been posted here, The following metaphor comes to mind:

    “Make a mountain out of a molehill”

  116. Joyed

    Oops…thanks! Well, she’s fought with Tedder, too, so maybe that’s why I got confused. Oh well

    Eriko

    This isn’t the first time Crystal has complained publicly about Jive — it’s becoming a trend

  117. About the compromising thing, creative power, putting a record in three months, capitalizing over Idol. Here´s what Adam said once…He express exacly what I wanted to say about Crystal and about her lastest tweets.

    About capitalizing over Idol and why you need to put a album right after, starts by the 5:20 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-oJ7zwAK2o

    In here he talks about the compromising thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li9bniT8qgM&feature=related

  118. This isn’t the first time Crystal has complained publicly about Jive — it’s becoming a trend

    girlygirl, just for the record, I too, think Crystal should keep all disagreements with her label private and try to resolve diplomatically and try to bring them into a win-win conversation. It takes two to tango, but also two to find a win-win situation. Both parties should have “What you resist, persists” in mind and quit paddling upstream. But I believe after Crystals last tweet, that this “trend” has come to an end

  119. I wonder if Crystal hasn’t overestimated her support from AI? If she wasn’t familiar with the show, she probably doesn’t know the history of previous winners and runners-ups. Even moreso last year, the viewership for Idol had decreased, along with the fraction of those viewers who were interested enough to vote, I think that Crystal is talented and very sure of herself as an artist, but if she’s already butting heads with the label this soon after being signed (and publically badmouthing them), without having any product released or any “numbers” to back her up, then this doesn’t bode well for the future. Where is her manager Gina Orr and has she talked with Crystal about the best way to proceed? From the looks of it, I would say not, or Crystal doesn’t get it (or wants to get it).

  120. the ‘’stick it to the man”, power to the people hoohah and rhetoric being tossed around is laughable, and exposes a naivete to how things in the real world – especially the music world – really works. i’m hoping it’s being thrown around for comedic effect, for levity. if her goal is to create an atmosphere that is conducive to jive releasing her, and her getting the op to pursue her career along the independent route, then more power to her – she’s doing a great job laying that groundwork. as long as she is on a major, any major, not only this crappy one, she like every other brand new artist will have to compromise and play their game.

    I agree with this. I don’t know whether she’s really this naive or this is all part of some larger game to get out while she can and get some indie label (that understands artists like her and knows how to market her type of music better (and on a much lower budget)) to sign her. Because otherwise, she sounds like a fool. Even if she never watched Idol before, didn’t she do any research afterwards? Does she not have any friends to fill in her gaps in knowledge? I just don’t get it. You know what? Forget Idol. How could she have been in the music industry (indie side) for this long and not understand this sh*t?

  121. Write a hit song about it Crystal. Like ‘Love Song’ or ‘King of Anything’ for Sara B :)

  122. Much ado about nothing. Jive will cave because they have no choice. They can put some Pop 40 pressure on her, yes, but ultimately she’ll do what she wants, they’ll release it and publicize it, and that’s that.

    End of story.

    This is over 120 posts of nonsense.

    I disagree. If they don’t like it, they don’t have to release anything or promote it. It’s happened before, Nikki season 1. (They don’t even have to record it)

    They’ll either come to some compromise or part ways.

    ETA: See Kirsten’s post, she’s right on the money with this one.

  123. Maybe this “I am an artist, not a label-puppet” is a scheme to get some credibility in the genre she is going for. Wouldn’t be surprised if the label is playing along.

  124. Much ado about nothing. Jive will cave because they have no choice.

    If this is the same attitude that Crystal has then it will be a quick bye-bye and it’s been fun, not. Jive hasn’t ever “caved” before why should they start now…and they have some pretty big fishes swimming around in that pond.

    Crystal has been “full of herself” from the get-go. Her statements about writing all her material, producing her own songs, releasing when she feels it is right, etc. have not sat well on my shoulders…and I think I am fairly representative of Jane Q. Public. Egotism is great for an Artist but the reality is that it needs to be tempered with a nice dose of humility once in awhile. And in the humility department Ms. Bowersox seems to be lacking…or at least she comes across that way in many of her public statements. And the longer she displays that chip on her shoulder the more people will line up to have the first big wack at knocking it off. She is just making life tough on herself for the sake of what she deems her musical integrity. And that integrity didn’t get her too far until she “lowered her standards” and went the American Idol route. She let Pandora out of the box…and man that woman just doesn’t ever seek it again once she has been released.

  125. Much ado about nothing. Jive will cave because they have no choice. They can put some Pop 40 pressure on her, yes, but ultimately she’ll do what she wants, they’ll release it and publicize it, and that’s that.

    End of story.

    You are so wrong. She “works” for Jive. Jive will put out what they think will sell. They may pretend to include her in the decision making process. If she thinks that she can dictate what goes on the CD she is a fool.

  126. I think crystal is great and support anything she does…it is her life and little red wagon. Why not support her?

  127. Write a hit song about it Crystal. Like ‘Love Song’ or ‘King of Anything’ for Sara B

    Or a song like ‘Let It Rain’ by Kris Allen that made it on his album.

  128. The thing is Crystal is a new artist. She does not have a proven track record for selling albums. I don’t think she has that much clout. I also think that this turn of events is unfortunate for her. She should keep it behind closed doors. Talk to her manager. Airing it publicly makes no sense and I am not sure if it is wise.

  129. Much ado about nothing. Jive will cave because they have no choice. They can put some Pop 40 pressure on her, yes, but ultimately she’ll do what she wants, they’ll release it and publicize it, and that’s that.

    End of story.

    You are so wrong. She “works” for Jive. Jive will put out what they think will sell. They may pretend to include her in the decision making process. If she thinks that she can dictate what goes on the CD she is a fool.

    I agree. Fans may applaud Crystal’s public disagreements with her label, but ultimately the label is in the position of power and is under no obligation to comply with her wishes. I’m not sure what’s going on, but she would best focus on her music and not tweet when she’s angry.

  130. She “works” for Jive.

    according to her tweets, they are not her boss, they are her backers.

    my boss? i dont have a boss. backing, yes. boss, no.

    well, I hope the adage “there is no such thing as bad publicity” works well, or that things settle down, and yes, “compromise” is made. Compromise to me suggests meeting in the middle, so let’s hope things work out.

  131. Much ado about nothing. Jive will cave because they have no choice. They can put some Pop 40 pressure on her, yes, but ultimately she’ll do what she wants, they’ll release it and publicize it, and that’s that.

    End of story.

    Oh, they have a choice all right.
    She may indeed do what she wants but there’s nothing forcing them to support that effort.
    Worst case scenario they completely ignore her release and leave her to whither on the vine.

    We’ve seen what an uphill battle a label can face to get artists airplay even when they support them enthusiastically.
    You have no idea how completely she could bomb should they let her sell just enough to recoup their money then let her fade into oblivion.
    She signed their papers and accepted all their publicity and experience. Now it’s time for her to uphold her end of the bargain and deliver.
    She’s in way over her head if she goes into battle against a record company- they have nothing to lose and she has everything.
    She vastly over estimates her own importance.

  132. I think Crystal’s situation is quite different than Adams, or David Cooks, Carrie’s or Kelly Clarksons. I think those 4, for example, had a much higher quota of commercial appeal going in, just by the style of music they play. Crystal, on the other hand, was mostly appreciated for being an artist outside of the type of music that is hugely popular right now. Just think of her musical cousins, like Melissa Etheridge, Linda Perry or Janis Joplin. Their music is not exactly burning up the charts right now. I think major labels negotiations were always going to be a precarious affair for her as a result.

    I don’t see alot of downside to airing this publicly. If she can’t put her style of music, a little pressure can’t hurt. I’m sure she is ready to compromise on some things, but moving away from the core of whats she about, is not a little thing. Nor is recording an album before you’re ready, although both might be standard operating procedures at some major labels. If this is what’s going on, who am I to say what she should do about it, and what battles are the right or wrong ones? When you don’t give a flying fig about reaching stadium levels of success, and just want to provide for you and your kid, the options might look different than what some are picturing.

  133. according to her tweets, they are not her boss, they are her backers

    Thats just semantics. One thing that can’t be argued is that Jive holds the purse strings and decided what to pay for & whether she gets anymore cash. Its too bad that she seems to see it as a case of “me vs them”.

  134. One thing that can’t be argued is that Jive holds the purse strings and decided what to pay for & whether she gets anymore cash. Its too bad that she seems to see it as a case of “me vs them”.

    Well, I don’t know. I think that, given the kinds of artists Jive tends to have on its roster and the kinds of artists who are the main money-makers today, Crystal just being Crystal may well feel a lot like “her vs. them” to both parties here. It’s just a bad match between label and performer, seems to me, and it’s not surprising that she doesn’t want what they want and they don’t want what she wants.

    I hope to see Crystal one day be a fine independent musician who can say just what she wants and do just what she wants with regard to music and the music industry. But I really don’t think this is the time to bitch about her current label publicly like a grouchy kid. If I were in her shoes, looking at history, I’d expect that, by next year this time, I would have been already dumped by Jive. So I’d be doing everything I could at present to look like not only a good musician but somebody that others will want to work with — writing a lot of good stuff, singing a lot of good stuff, and, in public, going along enough to get along….

    I don’t think Jive is going to care much about her album, one way or another, but I also think the last few years have shown that the days of Bicing — making them put out albums that are in a completely different style from their own — are pretty much over. If that’s the case, as it seems to me to be, then an album she put out this fall might well be mostly made up of songs that Crystal likes to at least some degree and that are produced in a style that she’ll be comfortable with. That’s all she really needs to get out of this album, I think, but I expect that, to get it, she may kill more flies with public honey than with Twitter vinegar.

  135. I think her last tweet needs repeating

    @crystalbowersox: thanks for all of the support, guys. i have more freedom than most signed artists, so imma stop complaining. i love what i do. i am blessed

    There is no need to keep on talking like there is a public dispute going on this minute. It´s also interesting how many seem to sympathize with Jive. Poor Jive and ungrateful, arrogant and naive Crystal, sigh…………

    It should be added, that Crystal tweets came directly after finding out from a fans tweet, that it had been announced her CD would be released in the fall. So it´s not strange that Crystal wasn´t pleased not even being informed or in the loop, but had to find out this way. So she´s human and vented her frustration

  136. Jive knew damn well when they signed Crystal that they were getting a complete singer/songwriter artist, not some shallow pop girl looking for high dollar celebrity. They also knew that the young girls who drive pop culture and Top 40 album sales would not be her target audience, would not be the demographic that buys her records, and that the base she’d be appealing to are grown men and indie music fans.

    Jive is only trying to tweak Crystal, not change her style to fit the current pop music trends, and there is nothing wrong with that. Crystal will bend to a point, but when they push her too far she’ll kick and they’ll ultimately have to back the fuck off, which is exactly what just happened.

    The label updated her site – without notifying her – about a fall album release as a tactic to put public pressure on her to fit their schedule. She bit back. They likely reached out to let her know they still love her and just want her to succeed, and in response she made a more conciliatory Tweet to show they were all still friends.

    The album will be indie, will come out whenever she finishes it, and the label will promote it with the hope it goes platinum. Nothing more to really say.

  137. and they’ll ultimately have to back the fuck off, which is exactly what just happened.

    We actually don’t know what happened, all we see is one sided tweets from Crystal. Jive has not said anything. If you choose to believe her last tweet means that Jive ‘backed the fuck off’ then that is your interpretation with no facts to back it up. ETA: It’s quite possible her management smoothed things over.

    Hey, if her album doesn’t sell, she set herself up with a nice ‘I didn’t want this album anyway’ excuse. I wonder if she’ll thank Jive if they do come up with a hit she didn’t write and it sells like hotcakes. See LLWD. Nice hit for Kris. It doesn’t have to be all bad, all one way or the other.

    – I do like ‘Let It Rain’ :)

  138. The label updated her site – without notifying her – about a spring album release as a tactic to put public pressure on her to fit their schedule.

    Actually, her website still shows Fall 2010 for the pre-order.

  139. I think her last tweet needs repeating

    @crystalbowersox: thanks for all of the support, guys. i have more freedom than most signed artists, so imma stop complaining. i love what i do. i am blessed

    True. But the trouble with Twitter is, You can’t take the older stuff back. Heck, now it’s even archived in the Library of Congress. Doesn’t come more publicly, permanently published than that. I’m not sure most Twitterers get this fact. I would say to anyone — If contracts and your livelihood are involved, don’t say *anything* on Twitter. Period. You can take it back all you want, but anybody who wants to (read: the company you snarled at) can believe that your first comment was the one you meant and the later takeback was the one your publicist screamed at you to write. Whether that’s true or not, I can’t see how a Twitter argument with your record label, no matter how brief and small, can do anything but increase both their impatience with you and their power over you.

    Honestly, I’m not convinced that Jive actually *wants* any of the Idol finalists they’ve picked up recently. I wonder if they don’t see them *all* as largely out of their wheelhouse and ultimately show that by failing to promote them much, after an initial burst that they hope will capitalize on the short-term fame they got coming off of Idol. I wonder how much they believe that Kris, for example, is really a long-term winner for them and their business plan, even though he was their big money-maker last year? If that were true, then Crystal wouldn’t be a difference in kind, just in degree. I’m inclined to think that her signing is evidence that it *is* true, because frankly they just don’t seem like a label that will take on an indie-folkie-crunchy-granola-songwriter type in 2010.

  140. It´s also interesting how many sympathize with Jive. Poor Jive and ungrateful, arrogant and naive Crystal

    It is not a matter of sympathy for Jive. It’s about understanding the machinations and profit motives that drive record labels. Why sign with a major label if you are not prepared to play by their rules. Any complaints by the artist after the fact, just appears foolish. If someone like Bowersox, who has yet to prove marketability, believes she is going to dictate to the label the whats, whens, and hows, well, good luck with that.

  141. It´s also interesting how many seem to sympathize with Jive. Poor Jive and ungrateful, arrogant and naive Crystal, sigh…………

    LOL! I really don’t see anyone “sympathizing” with Jive (I know that I certainly don’t), but more wary of Crystal airing her frustrations with the label publically, and the backlash from the label for that.

    I also think that Crystal’s latest concilliatory tweets were prompted by Gina Orr.

  142. Honestly, I’m not convinced that Jive actually *wants* any of the Idol finalists they’ve picked up recently.

    One of the few sensible/believable statements that crazy RCAEd has ever made was that between RCA/Jive/Arista, RCA gets first pick and Jive gets to sign whoever they didn’t want. (Unstated, but probable from the reading, is that Arista gets the ones neither group can imagine releasing [Taylor Hicks].) You’d think they could expand to other label groups, though. I honestly wonder if Columbia/Epic basically told 19 “no effin’ way,” because that seemed like a better fit for her.

  143. brewster It´s possible like some do, speak of the logistics, contracts, traditions of label etc, and why Crystal would be wise to react differently, like you actually care that Crystal won´t make things worse for herself, because after all, you want to hear her music etc. Why use the opportunity to attack Crystal on a personal level? Saying she´s this or that? Btw, not referring to you just to make it clear :)

  144. they’ll ultimately have to back the fuck off, which is exactly what just happened

    Wait.. did Jive just give into Crystal’s hostage demands? LOL How did they back off when they weren’t part of the direct conversation?

  145. it’s not a matter of anyone siding or sympathizing with jive – i rather despise them, but a few of us have been to this rodeo before, and know how to read the tea leaves on this one, if she persists in the public kerfluffles with the label. this is j i v e we are talking about here – jive. it’s likely with these cheapskates that she won’t have the kind of promo that will get her anywhere close to selling a million copies, of anything. if she insists on an indie sound, that cancels out a big push to top 40. i can’t see them spending big bucks to make a big push on hac, or ac either, because jive don’t spend that kind of money. she doesn’t appear to have the big,rabid fanbase that could be a safety net, driving sales of her debut single and the cd like other runners ups in recent years have had. kris had some major z100 promo for his debut as a jive artist, as did david a, not sure about allison… no disrespect to crystal, but can anyone here realistically see crystal getting a premiere and major push for an indie single on z100… is there a comparable station out there in indie land, or aaa land that corresponds to their power, and ability to help make songs hits…reality can be a mofo, but hey, keep hope alive. it don’t cost ya nothin’.

  146. Honestly, I’m not convinced that Jive actually *wants* any of the Idol finalists they’ve picked up recently. I wonder if they don’t see them *all* as largely out of their wheelhouse and ultimately show that by failing to promote them much, after an initial burst that they hope will capitalize on the short-term fame they got coming off of Idol. I wonder how much they believe that Kris, for example, is really a long-term winner for them and their business plan, even though he was their big money-maker last year? If that were true, then Crystal wouldn’t be a difference in kind, just in degree. I’m inclined to think that her signing is evidence that it *is* true, because frankly they just don’t seem like a label that will take on an indie-folkie-crunchy-granola-songwriter type in 2010.

    This sparks a query in me: is there some contractual clause that states a label in the Sony music group is obligated to sign the runner-up? I’ve never known for sure if the runner-up is also guaranteed a recording contract, or if it’s just a status quo type of thing. It seems like a wise thing to do, like in the cases of Clay Aiken and Adam Lambert, where the runner-up seems of equal or more popularity than the winner, but is it a requirement to sign second place? Maybe MJ knows about this. I only ask because, if Jive isn’t required to sign Crystal, then why did they bother? It makes sense if they were “saddled” with her (meaning contractually obligated to sign one of the Idols not of their choice), that she might fall by the wayside and/or have disputes with her over the direction of the album. If they took her on out of their own volition, however, they had to have had an inkling of how Crystal would want to negociate.

  147. One of the few sensible/believable statements that crazy RCAEd has ever made was that between RCA/Jive/Arista, RCA gets first pick and Jive gets to sign whoever they didn’t want. (Unstated, but probable from the reading, is that Arista gets the ones neither group can imagine releasing [Taylor Hicks].) You’d think they could expand to other label groups, though. I honestly wonder if Columbia/Epic basically told 19 “no effin’ way,” because that seemed like a better fit for her.

    Actually, We have two label groups: RCA Label Group and Jive Label Group. RCA LG has three labels: RCA, Arista and J Records. Jive is one of the labels of Jive LG. Each LG now had it’s own website, before each label had a website.

    Before season 6, RCA LG signed all Idols. Jordin was the first Idol to get signed by Jive. Blake Lewis was the last Idol to get signed by Arista (They signed Taylor Hicks, too.). RCA didn’t sign anyone from season 6.
    Since then, RCA and Jive signed all the Idols. Well, except those that went country – Sony Nashville LG signed those. There were no RNB singers for J Records and Arista was probably too traumatized by Taylor Hicks and Blake Lewis to take a chance on AI contestant ever again.

  148. This sparks a query in me: is there some contractual clause that states a label in the Sony music group is obligated to sign the runner-up?

    I read, sorry don´t know where, but it was a reliable source, that runner-up is not guaranteed a contract

  149. This sparks a query in me: is there some contractual clause that states a label in the Sony music group is obligated to sign the runner-up? I’ve never known for sure if the runner-up is also guaranteed a recording contract, or if it’s just a status quo type of thing. It seems like a wise thing to do, like in the cases of Clay Aiken and Adam Lambert, where the runner-up seems of equal or more popularity than the winner, but is it a requirement to sign second place? Maybe MJ knows about this. I only ask because, if Jive isn’t required to sign Crystal, then why did they bother?

    I don’t know. I don’t think runner ups are publicly promised a record deal, but second place finisher gets a Sony record deal every year, since season 1. So, why would Crystal be an exception?

  150. I read, sorry don´t know where, but it was a reliable source, that 19 is NOT required to sign runner-up.

    Okay, so it’s a status quo thing. It’s a potential profit thing. It’s a “throw it to the wall and see if it sticks” thing. Crystal might want to start becoming more adhesive and less teflon, if only for the sake of her son.

    In other words, absolutely nothing has changed as a result of this story.

    Not exactly. The result of this story, or rather, Crystal’s actions that triggered this story, could be that Jive decides she’s not worth the effort and shelves whatever she records a la Nikki McKibbin, and keeps her in a contractual holding pattern until they decide to drop her, which will probably be after she could fully capitalize on her Idol popularity. Things could definitely change!

  151. we cool eriko – don’t get me started on just how much i despise the jive-y people, lol… but what can you do – just hunkerdown, ride it out, and keep on keeping on. i sincerely hope david gets as far away from those people as soon as possible. all labels have their issues, but jive has deteriorated in this last year in a lot of areas they used to be on point with. crystal has talent, and i understand her passion, and fire, and willingness to want to kick butt and take names – and maybe she feels she has nothing to lose speaking her mind so openly and bluntly, i dunno… it’s not always what you do or say, it’s how you do or say it that can make all the difference… i hope she and they can come to some measure of professional detente that is suitable for the both of them during this debut process. once it is over, then maybe she can explore her options, and see how that goes…

  152. I only ask because, if Jive isn’t required to sign Crystal, then why did they bother?

    For me, the answer is obvious. They saw and heard as so many others did, an amazing talent.

  153. Those who already were her fans cheer her on for staying strong against those in power who want her to sell out.

    I am a fan. I’d like to see her making music that gets some reasonable distribution. I think she is being short-sighted in using this as an outlet for frustration and/or a negotiating tactic, and I think it may, and even already has, hurt her. I think a lot of people here are posting from the same mindset.

    Actually, We have two label groups: RCA Label Group and Jive Label Group. RCA LG has three labels: RCA, Arista and J Records. Jive is one of the labels of Jive LG. Each LG now had it’s own website, before each label had a website.

    Right. The issue is that the Sony/BMG reorganization has realigned a lot of label cultures, and so some labels that aren’t really the “flagship” of their groups retain some pretty notable identities anyway. So it’s possible that even though Arista is under RMG and not the flagship, and Jive is under Jive/Zomba and is the flagship, and they are both under RCA/Jive, that they have been willing to treat them as equivalent for the purposes of signing AI alums.

    Carrie U was initially on Arista (and Arista Nashville?) before decamping to AN completely. And they have moved Fantastia B to J, even if she wasn’t there previously.

    It still suggests that RCA gets first crack at the finalists.

  154. I don’t know. I don’t think runner ups are publicly promised a record deal, but second place finisher gets a Sony record deal every year, since season 1. So, why would Crystal be an exception?

    I don’t think she was an exception, hence the fact that she was signed. But, if there were already inklings that she might be difficult to work with, compounded by the fact that Season 9 was widely panned along with dramatically lowered voting, viewership and ticket sales, then Jive could have balked at signing her. My point is, since they didn’t, and now that she’s allegedly locking horns with them before any music is even recorded, they kind of poked the hornet’s nest. Even if you don’t consider it a painful sting, you still risk the very real possibility of getting stung. They just dropped a former Idol from their roster, and are now have tumult with another right out of the gate, not exactly a great reflection on the label.

  155. And they have moved Fantastia B to J, even if she wasn’t there previously.

    I think Fantasia is signed to J since she won AI.

  156. if you dish it out, you must be able to take it /random… can’t speak for everyone, but i like crystal. i like her vibe, her style, her defiance. she has a style, and sings in a genre that is not currently considered ‘mainstream’, or in the wheelhouse of the label she is currently signed to. she was behind the 8 ball in that respect from the beginning, it was going to be an uphill climb for her label and team to market and promote her, so why would she want to complicate matters by waging a war of words over her beefs with jive in public… it’s no shame to sometimes concede small battles when it’s winning the war you have your focus on. she hasn’t put out single 1, or sold 1 copy of a debut to be in a position to lock horns like this with jive, or any large corporation. this is just common sense, from where i sit. this is the music biz, where fighting the powers that be is going to take more than finishing runner up on a hi tech karaoke show, with no real leverage or any numbers to back you up in your fight. go get some armour first crystal, then come back to do battle w/the big boys.

  157. When you bite the hand that feeds you, you better be prepared to suffer the consequences.

  158. “In other words, absolutely nothing has changed as a result of this story.”

    Not exactly. The result of this story, or rather, Crystal’s actions that triggered this story, could be that Jive decides she’s not worth the effort and shelves whatever she records a la Nikki McKibbin, and keeps her in a contractual holding pattern until they decide to drop her, which will probably be after she could fully capitalize on her Idol popularity. Things could definitely change!

    I think that it’s very possible that things could change. Since it appears that Jive hasn’t invested that much yet in Crystal and her Idol fanbase is modest, at best, she isn’t dealing from a strong bargaining position.

    “Those who already were her fans cheer her on for staying strong against those in power who want her to sell out.”

    I am a fan. I’d like to see her making music that gets some reasonable distribution. I think she is being short-sighted in using this as an outlet for frustration and/or a negotiating tactic, and I think it may, and even already has, hurt her. I think a lot of people here are posting from the same mindset.

    I agree. I’m a fan as well, and IMO Crystal is not doing herself any favors with this kind of publicity. I’ll go further by saying that I think that those fans who are encouraging her to continue to air her grievances against Jive may not be acting in her best interests.

  159. so why would she want to complicate matters by waging a war of words over her beefs with jive in public… it’s no shame to sometimes concede small battles when it’s winning the war you have your focus on.

    Aside from the lack of judgement in using Twitter to discuss her beef with her label, I think Crystal should stop and evaluate whether it’s even a fight she wants to wage. Crystal has said she wants to make her music and wants to make a living for herself doing it. But she seems to be a little naive about the process. Has Crystal ever put out a CD before? I know both David Cook and Lee did, and they both know it’s a lot of work, especially if you go the Indie route. Lee has said in many interviews that he’s so excited to have the opportunity to make a CD on a larger scale. And I remember David saying after he won Idol that he realized he was 24 years old and still had a lot to learn about the music business – and this after having made 2 independent CD’s and winning American Idol. Crystal should probably take this attitude, and then evaluate whether it’s right for her after the process of making her 1st CD with Jive is over. Especially if her goal really is to make a living making music.

  160. Anyone who already disliked Crystal, and wouldn’t have bought her music anyway, finds fault in her for, gulp, having the audacity to stand up for herself to the record label.

    Those who already were her fans cheer her on for staying strong against those in power who want her to sell out.

    In other words, absolutely nothing has changed as a result of this story.

    Exactly. It is for all the folks in the gray area that this story has relevance. The label’s goal is to build a fanbase outside of the Idol bubble. There are 280 million people who do not watch Idol and either have not made up their mind about Crystal or have never heard of her. The argument here was never about Crystal losing her Idol fans but they are only going to add up to a certain amount. That is true for all Idols and their fanbase. Maybe in the past Idol could bank off of the Idol fanbase to carry a major label launch but now they can’t, just look at Allison for example. What Crystal has already earned are great fans who will follow her career and that is excellent for her and those fans because as long as Crystal wants to make music they will listen. What we are talking about here is the growth outside of that bubble and how this series of events impacts that.

  161. lol – until she is in a better position to take them on so publicly – yeah. shut up, suck it up… use your head. get your manager or some other third party mouthpiece to fight this battle behind the scenes for you. she lost the high ground of fighting these people from the position of ‘artistic integrity’ when she consented to be a contestant and compete on the cheesiest, most commercial anti-artistic show in the land. ain’t no shame in that, you have to do what you have to do sometimes to realize your dream – just don’t be acting all brand new when the piper presents you w/the bill after you have participated in the dance.

  162. She gained the high ground. Her career success is contingent on her determination to stay true to herself and her music. Her music is her life, and if she even thinks about putting out something less than what represents herself she’ll lose everything.

  163. I am a fan. I’d like to see her making music that gets some reasonable distribution. I think she is being short-sighted in using this as an outlet for frustration and/or a negotiating tactic, and I think it may, and even already has, hurt her. I think a lot of people here are posting from the same mindset

    Exactly. I don’t have a problem with her standing up for herself. I just don’t think she should do it in a public forum like twitter.

    Gee, how dare she do something so stupid like stand up for herself and what she believes in against people in power. Just shut up and take it, Crystal!

    I think you’re missing the point. She shouldn’t have aired her grievances publicly. Would you complain about your employer on twitter? I know, I know. They are not her “employer” but her backers but still she should have talked it over with them in private. And I don’t say this because I dislike her. I say this because I DO like her and want her to succeed. She’s just going to make it harder for herself if she keeps doing stuff like that.

  164. She gained the high ground. Her career success is contingent on her determination to stay true to herself and her music. Her music is her life, and if she even thinks about putting out something less than what represents herself she’ll lose everything.

    then i wonder why some have given david a shade for trying to do just that with his upcoming release… how ironic. he is remaining true to his artistic vision – come hell, high water, hi sales, low sales, no sales – he is fighting in a lot of ways this same battle – he even got the greenlight to write/cowrite most of the tracks on this cd, but now it seems jive is just asleep at the freaking wheel in regards to support, so go figure. i respect him immensely for being that fearless, when he could have sold out and produced debut cd pt 2. but this ain’t about him, it’s about crystal. i really understand where you are coming from in a sense negativo – i do. i used to be kinda fiery, fight the power, power to the people idealistic for a large part of my youth, and early adult years. then i grew up, and moved out into the larger world, started working in the corporate and professional world, and got an education real fast in how a lot of things really work, as opposed to my idealistic notions of how they should work. fighting the good fight is fine – just have your stuff together, and something to leverage when you decide to go there, or tptb will chew you up, and spit you out without a backwards look.

  165. The only thing that are facts is that Crystal can sing her butt off and she she is not a butt kisser. The revelation that people don’t like that she is not wimp is irrelevant. I can’t believe the number of folks who think think she should cave and get in line like a robot. That is a scary way to live a life.

  166. If this were Lee I would agree that it’s a dumb move. He’s an aspiring pop star hoping to fit into mainstream top 40. Crystal is different. Take away her authenticity and you might as well kill her.

    Compromise to a point, but when the label pushes too far kick some ass and stay true. I love what she’s doing, and it makes me want to buy her album even more.

  167. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with her standing up for herself, but why is she fighting her label to DELAY the release of her single and album?

    Holidays are great for sales, and, from an idol pov, sooner the better as far as release. This is especially so for Lee and Crystal as neither has the fan base to be guaranteed success. Time is not going to help the situation.

    By waiting till spring, Crystal is risking being forgotten by the idol audience who’ll be caught up in season 10 at that point. Also, spring is almost as competitive for albums and singles as the fall. For her own sake I hope that something is released sooner than later.

  168. “Gee, how dare she do something so stupid like stand up for herself and what she believes in against people in power. Just shut up and take it, Crystal!”

    I think you’re missing the point. She shouldn’t have aired her grievances publicly. Would you complain about your employer on twitter? I know, I know. They are not her “employer” but her backers but still she should have talked it over with them in private. And I don’t say this because I dislike her. I say this because I DO like her and want her to succeed. She’s just going to make it harder for herself if she keeps doing stuff like that.

    Exactly. It’s not that she shouldn’t fight to maintain her artistic integrity (as much as is reasonably possible), but not to do it publicly.

    she lost the high ground of fighting these people from the position of ‘artistic integrity’ when she consented to be a contestant and compete on the cheesiest, most commercial anti-artistic show in the land. ain’t no shame in that, you have to do what you have to do sometimes to realize your dream – just don’t be acting all brand new when the piper presents you w/the bill after you have participated in the dance.

    I agree. I hope that Crystal succeeds, but just by signing up for AI the “artistic integrity” ship has sailed. I remember Crystal always saying that she went on AI to get a better life for her son, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all, but at this point, I think that she needs to put out as good an album as possible (given the inevitable restraints of an Idol contract) and then see where she is.

  169. MrDuffin:
    09/23/2010 at 7:06 pm
    The only thing that are facts is that Crystal can sing her butt off and she she is not a butt kisser. The revelation that people don’t like that she is not wimp is irrelevant. I can’t believe the number of folks who think think she should cave and get in line like a robot. That is a scary way to live a life.

    I don’t think she should cave in and just follow orders, because there are a few former Idols who have made albums that they liked and was successful. But they understood that in the end, the Label would not budge on certain things. No one is asking her to become a robot or butt kisser, but she needs to think before she air her dirty laundry. I doubt that JIVE management is losing any sleep over Crystal. They don’t care, she’s at the bottom of the food chain for them. She’s one rung up the ladder from Allison, who just got released. Unless she’s the reincarnation of Janis Joplin, with a big fanbase to support her, she’s standing on very shaky ground. She better hope that her manager Gina got some stroke, because if JIVE got a choice between the “clueless rebel” and one of their artist, with more sales and a better attitude, then Crystal will be out in the cold when it comes to promotion. Crystal needs to learn a rule, “you can only fall on your sword once”, because once you do it, there’s no second chances.

  170. “Caving in” and understanding (1) the music business is driven by the almighty $$$ (esp. when dealing with major labels) and (2) the label, not the artist, has the power when contracts are involved, are entirely different things.

    No one is saying Crystal has to “cave in” — but the key is to understand that Crystal has very little leverage here and she is likely going to have to do a fair amount of compromising if she doesn’t want Jive to either shelve her album or dump it into the marketplace with no promo.

    Crystal has a relatively small — if very loyal and very vocal — fanbase. She’s already trying to did out of a hole in terms of lack of buzz revolving around S9 as a whole and herself specifically. So it would make more sense for her to try not and burn any bridges this early in her career. Pick and choose your battles — and realize that you aren’t likely to win a lot of them. If she shows she is willing to compromise, maybe Jive will then show more willingness to do likewise. If she is so stubborn and refuses to compromise, what’s to stop Jive from doing the same thing — resulting in a stalemate that leaves her album gathering dust on a shelf?

    Neither Crystal nor Lee are high on the list of priorities at Jive and RCA. The label likely cares way more about their proven money makers than they do about some newbie musician coming off a fading reality show. If they piss the suits off, the label is going to care even less about trying to help make their debut CDs a success.

  171. I love what she’s doing, and it makes me want to buy her album even more.

    i feel the same about david, and his cd. he chooses to go about his career, and any differences he may have w/jive differently, but i think he is no less committed than crystal in wanting to remain true to himself, and his vision of where is and the music he wants to bring to the table at this stage in his career. crystal doesn’t have a lock on ‘authenticity’ or swimming upstream against the current top 40 /mainstream tide in order to be heard… she is just the latest idol fish/new artist to jump into the currents, and must figure out the best and most effective way to navigate amongst the sharks.

  172. Crystal has a relatively small — if very non-loyal and very vocal — group of detractors.

  173. I think Crystal is awesome but may benefit from joining Tweeters Anonymous.

  174. It’s interesting how none of the mainstream media picked up on Crystal’s tweets and wrote articles today, not even the Idoloonies at MTV/EW. Too busy moving on to s10 I guess? Maybe they’ll cover the story now that Crystal has apologized.

    Kelly and Carrie had to fight HUGE battles coming right off AI but that wasn’t made public until later. Just because they’re inherently more mainstream than Crystal doesn’t mean they didn’t have to fight. Like other people already said Kelly waited until she was a multiplatinum, Grammy winning headliner until she made her battles public ;) But what I really want to do is agree with all the people who are saying that just because an Idol didn’t take their disagreements with TPTB public doesn’t mean they’re clueless automatons who just did what they were told. I really agree that probably all the Idols have had to fight for themselves to some extent.

    RCA/J/Arista were the original landing spots for all Idol finalists as per the contract between 19 and BMG (which is now Sony). After s4 they negotiated to allow Sony’s Nashville labels to sign Idols and after s6 they negotiated to allow Jive/Zomba labels to sign Idols. But RCA/J/Arista still has the 1st right of refusal.

    IMO Jive was good with AI when it was fresh for them and they had ideas about how to leverage Idol exposure in the evolving marketplace. Now that AI isn’t as big a deal I don’t think Jive knows how to make up for that and it’s not too creative. ITA with most people they won’t do right by Crystal but IMO she has to see it as her opportunity to learn about the business aspect of this whole thing.

  175. Reminder:

    Deleting angry, defensive posts. PLEASE don’t question the motives of posters or put words in their mouths! Respect your fellow poster’s opinions, even if you disagree!

    Stay angry and bitter? You will wind up in moderation.

  176. Crystal is an entitled, spoiled, arrogant brat.

    I had a lot of her pre-Idol stuff. I liked it and was ready to support her album, but she’s really been pissing me off lately. This latest little hissy fit because she doesn’t get exactly what she wants, RT-ing fans dissing her label, and then bragging that she has more freedom that other people and that she doesn’t have to answer to anyone but herself? And then making it absolutely clear that she is going to continue to act like a baby anytime she doesn’t get her way?

    She’s absolutely a spoiled brat. I really don’t understand where this attitude evolved that she is *such* a genius that Jive is going to write her a check and let her put her demos out. It just doesn’t fit with someone who had been struggling for such a long time. Was she sweet-talked so much during her time on the show that she felt she would have total control over the end product?

  177. Im not too worried about Crystal’s rants for after all AI Season 9 was the best and produced the most talented winner and runner-up in its history!…………….*sigh*

  178. AI Season 9 was the best and produced the most talented winner and runner-up in its history!

    You got that right! Well, the runner-up part

  179. Crystal is an adult, a loving responsible mom, and was given wonderful talent by our creator. An artist should have say about her songs, and when she feels her CD is ready to go for release. I support her. There is not ‘locking horns’, and her stating facts and feelings is normal and not ‘difficult to work with’. I think the people making mountains out of molehills are silly. I know JIVE cancelled contract with Alison Iraheta, and Crystal is being wise to be sure her product is the best and a couple months can make all the difference in the world, really, and can set the pattern for success high or low.

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