Idols In Concert – Stats – 09/02/10

The steady drip-drip-drip of Season 9 American Idol Tour results continues. Just release them all already! This is like having a dripping faucet in the bathroom.

Oh, and a concert for Clay and Ruben.

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Please post new concert stats as you find them. This is the daily’s numbers thread.

Updated: Concerts from Pollstar via Idol Stages.

43 American Idols Live
Target Center; Minneapolis, Minn.
Aug. 27, 2010
$191, 841; 3, 293 of 4, 076 (81%); $68.50, $29

79 Clay Aiken, Ruben Studdard
Club NOKIA; Los Angeles, Calif.
Aug. 1, 2010
$45, 937; 683 of 1, 200 (57%); $75, $19.50

“Bethlehem Musikfest” Adam Lambert, Orianthi
Sands Riverplace, Bethlehem, PA
August 13, 2010;
$204, 695; 6, 500 of 6, 500 (sold-out); $20 – $38

Fantasia
Birchmere, Alexandria, VA
July 20-21, 2010;
$59, 500; 1, 000 of 500 (sold-out x 2); $59.50 – $0

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

167 Comments

  1. 3,293 of 4,076 (81%)

    At first look, that doesn’t seem all that bad. It’s not that far off from the percentage sold at that very same venue for the Idol tour in the last few years. S8 sold 84% of the tickets offered while S7 sold 87%.

    The trick is how many tickets were offered for sale. The venues can change dramatically in size. In Season 7, at that venue 9,977 of 11,478 tickets were sold (revenue was $602,112) and in S8, 9,307 of 11,119 tickets were sold (revenue was $582,997).

    Often, artists get a cheaper rate for a venue when they select a smaller configuration size (certainly, there is some savings on number of ticket takers and security required) and groups may book into a large arena (with the smaller configuration size) because there is no other suitable venue around.

    Anyway, it’s an interesting example of how one can’t rely on the venue sizes posted on arena websites as the indication of how sold-out a concert might be.

  2. Another Adam concert stat from IdolStages.com that wasn’t posted:

    08/13/2010 “Bethlehem Musikfest” Adam Lambert, Orianthi
    Sands Riverplace, Bethlehem, PA
    ArtsQuest
    6,500 / 6,500 100%
    $20 – $38
    $204,695

    Kirsten, is Idolstages using a different source and that’s why some dates there aren’t listed here? There were two Adam dates last week that idolstages had that weren’t listed either.

  3. $67.25 average ticket price for Clay and Ruben. There weren’t many sold, but they got quite a bit of money from those who bought them. I wonder when the $19.50 tickets went on sale. The Clearwater show never did go on sale and resulted in low attendance. This tour kinda baffles me on how they are choosing not to lower prices to get more butts in the seats.

  4. From todays Mediabase:

    37 33 DANNY GOKEY I Will Not Say Goodb… 738 708 30 3.863

  5. Carrie is starting to make her move up the charts

    52 39 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Mama’s Song 444 145 299 3.197

  6. Kirsten, is Idolstages using a different source and that’s why some dates there aren’t listed here? There were two Adam dates last week that idolstages had that weren’t listed either.

    Yes. Idol Stages uses Pollstar data. That is another company that reports box office receipts. As noted in earlier weeks, sometimes they report different totals indicating that there must be some sort of different accounting methods at play. Not all concerts are reported to both companies and they aren’t always reported the same weeks (so sometimes, when something looks new or old and it’s not).

  7. From theloveablekind at Pulse:

    POP

    21 21 ADAM LAMBERT If I Had You 3711 3424 287 19.438

    +54 spins
    +16 bullet
    +0.022 AI

    #35 on iTunes.

    HAC

    24 22 ADAM LAMBERT If I Had You 1032 827 205 4.901

    +36 spins
    +19 bullet
    +.210 AI

    Up another slot in Top 40 and only a few spins away from Drake to rehain the #20 spot.

  8. Idol tour numbers have been slow coming this summer. It seems we were getting them steadily last summer. Every stop was accounted for not long after the tour ended. There have been only a half dozen reports so far this summer, with nothing on the first 7 yet. Isn’t there a time limit after which BB Boxscore won’t report concert results?

  9. Great update for IIHY again! AI is really getting up there. Part of hopes the song has staying power like WWFM but another part is anxious for another single. Can’t they release another one anyway like Katy/kesha/gaga?

  10. Idol tour numbers have been slow coming this summer. It seems we were getting them steadily last summer

    Yep. Last year we got them about two weeks after each of the concerts. It was super nice.

    Isn’t there a time limit after which BB Boxscore won’t report concert results?

    Yes. I seem to recall that it is something like 6 months.

    I don’t get the dribbling data. I can understand it for tours with a variety of tour promoters or lots of small venues (i.e. no promoter at some venues). Some tour promoters might report while others won’t. But with the AI tour, Live Nation is doing the entire thing. Why report some and not others? Last year, it was AEG Live as the AI tour promoter.

  11. Peeps were talking on here yesterday about album vs. single sales and went looking for and found on another site an article about the top 20 singles. The article was from April so of course Kris and Adam have jumped up in rank, but the thing I thought that was most interesting is if you just count DEBUT ALBUM singles, the list goes like this:

    1. No Air- 3.1 million
    2. Before He Cheats- 2.9
    3. It’s Not Over- 2.1
    4. Tattoo- 2.0
    5. Home- 1.96
    6. Crush- 1.9
    7. Jesus Take The Wheel- 1.7
    8. LLWD- 1.5
    9. WWFM- 1.5
    10. One Step At A Time 1.3 ( Never heard this song in my lfe, lol- Jordin)

    As you can see, no Kelly Clarkson, No Clay Aiken. Digital sales of singles started in 2005-right before Carries year. It also explains why you do not see multi million album sales as a norm any more.

    http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart_watch/52621/chart-watch-extra-american-idols-million-sellers/

  12. 10. One Step At A Time 1.3 ( Never heard this song in my lfe, lol- Jordin)

    That’s not a debut single. That was the 3rd single off her first album, the one that came after No Air.

    The debut single thing is tricky because the circumstances were all so wildly different between years. Not only did digital singles not really get going until later, as you mentioned, but Idols didn’t even really have lead singles most of the time until Jordin Sparks did in Season 6. Before then, the “lead single” was released within a few weeks of the album. And even now some get a real lead single and some don’t. And if your coronation song catches on, like Kelly, Cook and Clay, then it enters a gray zone… is it a defacto lead single or not?

    That single stuff always gives me a headache. LOL

  13. Studio57:
    09/02/2010 at 9:38 am

    As you can see, no Kelly Clarkson, No Clay Aiken. Digital sales of singles started in 2005-right before Carries year. It also explains why you do not see multi million album sales as a norm any more.

    But you are not looking at the whole picture. Nowadays you only get reports of digital sales so Kelly and Clay’s hard copy singles aren’t included in the reports but they should be. Clay’s first single sold for $3.99 and sold 996,000 copies according to soundscan. The total is higher of course because of all of the stores that sold it that don’t report to soundscan but let’s just say it sold a million. That single brought in 4 million dollars in sales and you would think it (and his other single which sold really well too), would have cut into his album sales. Maybe the singles did affect his album sales and his total would have been even higher?

  14. tinawina, I think Studio57 meant singles off Debut Albums, not just the lead singles.

  15. tinawina- if you read my post again I said singles off debut ALBUMS.

    Caden- I am looking at the whole picture- it’s songs since the digital age ( 2005)- Itunes. That is why Kelly and Clay are not factored in there. And the article also states that.

  16. Studio57:
    09/02/2010 at 10:16 am

    Caden- I am looking at the whole picture- it’s songs since the digital age ( 2005)- Itunes. That is why Kelly and Clay are not factored in there. And the article also states that.

    I thought your point was that album sales are suffering because of high sales of singles. I was pointing out that there were high single sales before the digital age that didn’t appear to cannibalize album sales for Kelly and Clay, unless your point was that they would have sold even more without singles for sale.

  17. Does anyone know who is promoting eith Urban’s and/or Maroon 5’s tour? I would thin it would be some major promoter lie AEG or LiveNation, so I am really surprised we aren’t seeing any box office #’s from these shows. Especially from Urban’s, since he always draws very well.

  18. I don’t get the dribbling data. I can understand it for tours with a variety of tour promoters or lots of small venues (i.e. no promoter at some venues). Some tour promoters might report while others won’t. But with the AI tour, Live Nation is doing the entire thing. Why report some and not others?

    I can’t shake the suspicion that holding back tour data was a conscious effort to keep the deluge of poor sales numbers from becoming public info before the tour ended. Everybody knew Idol was having a rough time, but we didn’t have the proof of actual hard data for many concerts. Maybe we’ll learn the true facts soon if they don’t decide to keep them suppressed.

  19. I don’t get the dribbling data.

    I don’t think there was a consistent way they report the data. In season 6 they reported one whole lot of shows half-way through, then in dribs and drabs, the last lot being reported in I think November, which is probably why most people missed that set of data. They were more regular with Season 7 and 8, but I’m not sure if that is really the normal pattern. Season 5 was I think like a mix of Season 6-8, occasionally big chunks of data, then more regular reporting. One number was missing from Season 5 in the Billboard Year-End Chart so at least one wasn’t reported by December.

  20. girlygirl: Does anyone know who is promoting eith Urban’s and/or Maroon 5’s tour? I would thin it would be some major promoter lie AEG or LiveNation, so I am really surprised we aren’t seeing any box office #’s from these shows. Especially from Urban’s, since he always draws very well.

    I don’t know about Maroon 5 but Keith Urban’s almost exclusively doing state fairs and festivals and most of those don’t get reported to Billboard or Pollstar. You have to hope that the review the day after will mention how many tickets were sold because sometimes the box office releases the info to the local media.

  21. tinawina- if you read my post again I said singles off debut ALBUMS.

    Sorry! I read too fast.

    I can’t shake the suspicion that holding back tour data was a conscious effort to keep the deluge of poor sales numbers from becoming public info before the tour ended.

    Hmmm. That is certainly possible. **strokes chin**

    I am REALLY curious to see how this batch of idols will be treated record release time. They are the last batch with Sony, coming off a season that the media has shown little excitement over, and from a franchise that needs to register a win before XFactor arrives. Will 19 try to make at last one of them a big success? Or will they sweep them under the rug in order to move on asap to S10, which they are desperately hoping can breathe some new life into the Idol brand? Let the games begin.

  22. iTunes

    #36 – IIHY
    #49 – Undo It
    #79 – September
    #146 – WWFM
    #311 – Bittersweet
    #344 – MMFILA
    #396 – LLWD
    #407 – TT
    #806 – SBL

    ALBUMS

    #25 – Back To Me
    #29 – Play On
    #265/#654 – Leave This Town
    #514/#591 – FYE
    #801 – IIHY Remixes EP
    #868 – Leave This Town: The B-Sides EP

    I am assuming Carrie’s new single (Mama’s Song) hasn’t been released to iTunes yet?

  23. As you can see, no Kelly Clarkson, No Clay Aiken.

    Most people aren’t aware of the fact that Kelly Clarkson’s Miss Independent and Clay Aiken’s Invisible weren’t released as commercial singles initially. You can’t buy them even if you wanted to (or have to pay a lot to buy those promo singles sent to radio stations in eBay). You can only download them later, even then both managed to sell over 500,000.

    The rest of Kelly’s singles from her debut album were flops. I can certainly remember there were concern that Kelly may fail until she had the big seller with Breakaway.

  24. Another poor update on Hot AC for The Truth today. It’s at #18, but could get passed by a couple of songs before the published chart comes out.

    I hope Jive is going to release a 3rd single before Kris goes out on tour with Lifehouse in October, because this one is pretty much dead in the water, barring a miracle

  25. Will 19 try to make at last one of them a big success?

    Honestly, I don’t see how that could even be possible. With little interest in the tour and poor single sales the best they can do is promote the first singles and do their best to push to radio. Neither signed are going to be an easy sell to pop but more HAC. Big success? I’m not seeing it. I could be wrong.

  26. girlygirl: I am assuming Carrie’s new single (Mama’s Song) hasn’t been released to iTunes yet?

    It’s on i-Tunes because it’s on Play On. Just not moving the needle in terms of sales yet but it only got released to radio on Tuesday morning and it just cracked the top 40. I don’t expect much until maybe the video is released. Also IMO it’ll play more like Temporary Home which went gold but wasn’t as big a download seller as Cowboy Casanova and Undo It.

    Play On and some of Carrie’s singles seem to be getting a pretty good bump off the CMA Music Fest special and the CMA nominations.

  27. “At this moment in time” which is all Amazon is, Adam’s FYE album is up 104% in sales from yesterday, but of course that can change quickly as well. It seems to get surges like this after a run of concerts.

  28. Caden- I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly- are you saying that Clay sold a million copies of Invisible? Where is the 4 million coming from that you are talking about? Your post was kind of unclear? Even if Clay sold a million copies of Invisible, that is still low given his popularity and the lack of digital. High for the times, though. And of course the album sales at the time makes up for it.Please don’t look at this as a diss on Clay- I was just trying to explain their absence on that particular chart.

    According to this chart Invisible only went Gold and that is because it finally became digital years later.

    http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=Clay%20Aiken&format=SINGLE&go=Search&perPage=25

  29. @Studio57

    Invisible wasn’t released for sale as a single until 2008 (5 years after the album release). Since it was a track on Clay’s debut album, holding it back from sale meant that you could not complete an album on iTunes and at that time the Billboard hot 100 positions were a combination of radio spins and sales. Since you couldn’t buy it, it didn’t reflect its true popularity on the charts. The fact that it sold gold anyway years too late for the charts is amazing. It is only one reason why Clay’s fans feel that 19 sabotaged him.

    The song I was referring to was Clay’s first single, which was This Is The Night/Bridge Over Troubled Water which sold about a million hard copies at $3,99 each.

  30. Clay’s first single sold for $3.99 and sold 996,000 copies according to soundscan.

    That would be his coronation single wouldn’t it? Doesn’t count as releases from the debut album I think (like I wouldn’t consider Magic Rainbow as a single from David Cook’s album).

    Invisible wasn’t released for sale as a single until 2008

    Invisible would be his first official single off the album, but it was available as download before 2008 – it was certified gold I think 2006 IIRC. Kelly’s Miss Independent was also certified gold a couple of years after it was initially released because it was only available for download much later.

  31. I hope Jive is going to release a 3rd single before Kris goes out on tour with Lifehouse in October, because this one is pretty much dead in the water, barring a miracle

    I doubt it now because this would just make too much sense for Jive. They can’t be thinking that TT is suddenly going take off still so they really need a new strategy which means a new song. I am so puzzled at the lack of effort for this song but I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, it just seems this song was handled in such a slip shod, casual manner.

  32. Hazehel:
    09/02/2010 at 12:20 pm

    Clay’s first single sold for $3.99 and sold 996,000 copies according to soundscan.

    That would be his coronation single wouldn’t it? Doesn’t count as releases from the debut album I think (like I wouldn’t consider Magic Rainbow as a single from David Cook’s album).

    Clay didn’t win, remember? It was the lead single from his album.

    My mistake, Invisible was released on iTunes in 2006, only 3 years too late.

  33. Clay didn’t win, remember? It was the lead single from his album.

    I thought Clive declared Clay and Ruben joint winners or something, hehehe.

    Anyway, the single had Bridge Over Troubled Water which wasn’t on the album.

  34. Anyway, the single had Bridge Over Troubled Water which wasn’t on the album.

    They had to give them something more than one song to justify the 4 bucks to buy it. LOL

  35. Even if Clay sold a million copies of Invisible, that is still low given his popularity and the lack of digital.

    That is the wrong argument isn’t it? Clay wasn’t as popular 3 years later, he could only sell just over 500,000 copies of A Thousand Different Ways.

    And it was released a few years later. Will Kris Allen sell anything of LLWD (or Adam’s WWFM) if they decide to release them 3 years later with no radio support? I suspect they might sell zilch.

  36. Hazehel:
    09/02/2010 at 12:44 pm

    Clay wasn’t as popular 3 years later, he could only sell just over 500,000 copies of A Thousand Different Ways.

    How many idols or other pop artists can sell gold with zero radio support, zero prime time promotion, zero videos and not much else? The label either really dropped the ball or they deliberately sabotaged him because he fired them as managers for conflict of interest. Both albums previous to ATDW sold platinum or multi-platinum and then suddenly no promotion. How does that even compute?

  37. Honestly, I don’t see how that could even be possible. With little interest in the tour and poor single sales the best they can do is promote the first singles and do their best to push to radio. Neither signed are going to be an easy sell to pop but more HAC. Big success? I’m not seeing it. I could be wrong.

    No, I think you’re probably right. But then again I haven’t heard any material yet.

    Looking at the tour returns so far has not been encouraging at all. But Lee does seem to have the biggest fanbase of them all. Add the fact that he might have the christmas season all to himself, and of the 3 signed 19 seems to favor him most… plus RCA is pretty good for rock-flavored acts… I’m thinking he has a halfway decent shot for doing at least okay. Everyone else is a wildcard to me. Casey has great potential but he won’t come out until Spring, and Crystal is indie by nature IMO.

  38. mmb:
    09/02/2010 at 11:10 am
    Fye cd is number eight on the Canadian album chart thus week

    I have been hearing WWFM a lot these days from Toronto, Canada Top 40 stations along with IIHY. There must be more new requests or something IMO. I am very happy to hear them both again.

  39. Regarding single sales from Idol debut albums — and excluding pre-album coronation songs – I think that looking only at digital sales is a bit deceptive — particularly related to Kelly.

    What are total sales for “Miss Independent”? I’m sure someone here has the stats for the combination of the four formats released in the US for Kelly’s “Miss Independent” (digital, CD-Single, 12″ and cassette) I think it could actually be over 1.3 million units sold making it #10. MI was RIAA Certified gold (1 million units) in March 2005 and has continued to sell since then. I do not track Kelly and couldn’t find the total but the digital sales were 759K in April 2010 — and since the song was released in March 2003 — that is an impressive digital total.

    Also IMO the release history of Miss Independent depressed sales. Not the album.

    MI was released as the lead album single for Kelly’s debut in 2003 as a digital only track. It was used to promote digital music and the digital market. For perspective — in 2003 just 19 million songs were purchased as downloads. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/arts/music/01indu.html)

    5 weeks after the album was released in the US, the single was released on physical format. The US release dates:

    “Miss Independent” digital single release: March 2003 (I can’t find date)
    “Thankful” album released: April 15, 2003
    “Miss Independent” CD single: May 25, 2003

    And when the MI CD single was released in the US, it was an expensive import.

  40. Both albums previous to ATDW sold platinum or multi-platinum and then suddenly no promotion. How does that even compute?

    The thing that I contended for years is the Idol is not meant to look for singer with longevity – they would find a singer or two each year who’d make a few hits, sell a few albums, then he or she would conveniently disappear to make way for a fresh crop of idols who’d continue the cycle.

    Perhaps they are thinking different now with the long-term success of Kelly and Carrie, but certainly from the way they treated some Idols in the past doesn’t suggest that they have great respect for them as individual artist. Justin Guarini for instance was treated very poorly I think. Even the way Clive treated Kelly Clarkson over her third album didn’t indicate any respect even after the huge success of Breakaway. Perhaps things might be different now with the special treatment given to Adam, but we’ll see if that is just a one-off thing.

    Clay’s problem in any case he is someone who do mostly covers, I’m not sure how long he could sustain going down that route. He is probably the SuBo of his day, and I don’t see SuBo having a long successful recording career either.

  41. Q3 I don’t know if this answers your queston but this is what the last paragraph of the article says about MI:

    Thanks for your comments, which led me to add Daughtry’s “No Surprise” to the list. But none of the other songs you cited are million-sellers according to the Nielsen/SoundScan data (for digital sales) or the RIAA certifications (for physical singles). Underwood’s “So Small” has sold 868,000 digital copies. Clarkson’s “Miss Independent” has sold 759,000. .

  42. Looking at a few Idol alums release history, they have little chance to be on the hit singles from debut album list excluding coronation songs. Taylor Hicks and Clay didn’t have lead album singles except for Coronation songs.

    Here’s the release dates for Clay. (And anyone who thinks that RCA, Jive or Arista messed up an Idol’s pro career launch the worst has not looked the Clay history. Yipes! The on-again off again single strategy for Clay is just silly-stupid!)

    Note: Please don’t bash me if I screwed this up because the records on singles released during the digital transition of 2003-2004 are really screwed up. And Clay’s single release history is also somewhat unique.

    Clay didn’t really have a lead single for his debut, “Measure of a Man”, unless you count “This is night”/”Bridge over Troubled Waters”.

    Release dates:

    Single: This is the Night/BOTW June 3, 2003
    double A-side single was RIAA certified platinum on July 15, 2003

    “Invisible” – Not commercially released in 2003. 12/14/03 – RCA canceled the commercial release of this song.

    Debut album “Measure of a Man” October 14, 2003

    “Solitare/The Way” March 16, 2004
    2x Platinum

    S/TW CD single was released in March 2004 and it debuted at #1 on the Nielsen SoundScan U.S. Singles Sales chart for the week ended March 21, 2004.

  43. Studio57:
    09/02/2010 at 9:38 am
    Peeps were talking on here yesterday about album vs. single sales and went looking for and found on another site an article about the top 20 singles. The article was from April so of course Kris and Adam have jumped up in rank, but the thing I thought that was most interesting is if you just count DEBUT ALBUM singles, the list goes like this:

    1. No Air- 3.1 million
    2. Before He Cheats- 2.9
    3. It’s Not Over- 2.1
    4. Tattoo- 2.0
    5. Home- 1.96
    6. Crush- 1.9
    7. Jesus Take The Wheel- 1.7
    8. LLWD- 1.5
    9. WWFM- 1.5
    10. One Step At A Time 1.3 ( Never heard this song in my lfe, lol- Jordin)

    As you can see, no Kelly Clarkson, No Clay Aiken. Digital sales of singles started in 2005-right before Carries year. It also explains why you do not see multi million album sales as a norm any more.

    Actually, Carrie’s “Before He Cheats” has also sold over 3 million, about 3.07 million. Even if you count other albums (not just debut albums), there are just two additions to the top 10 list, both by Kelly: MLWSWY, 2.3 million, and “Since U Been Gone,” 2 million. That makes Kris’ LLWD 10th overall, now with 1.55 million and Adam 11th at just over 1.5 million. At the current pace, Adam could overtake Kris for 10th place in a couple of months.

  44. Studio57:
    09/02/2010 at 1:45 pm

    Q3 I don’t know if this answers your queston but this is what the last paragraph of the article says about MI:

    Thanks for your comments, which led me to add Daughtry’s “No Surprise” to the list. But none of the other songs you cited are million-sellers according to the Nielsen/SoundScan data (for digital sales) or the RIAA certifications (for physical singles). Underwood’s “So Small” has sold 868,000 digital copies. Clarkson’s “Miss Independent” has sold 759,000. .

    759K is just the digital total — poorly written sentence but the two sources referred to are Nielsen SoundScan data (digital sales) and RIAA certifications. The specific sales numbers are only Soundscan reported digital sales.

    Three gaps I can see:

    1. In 2003-2005, a large percentage of digital sales were never reported to Soundscan — only to the label.

    2. Since we know Miss Independent sold in 4 formats, the sales must be at least a bit higher than just the digital total.

    3. The author used the absence of an RIAA Platinum certification to say that MI didn’t sell over 1 million but Kelly doesn’t have all the certifications that she has qualified for. So it is very possible that MI has sold well over 1 million units and no one ever filed for the Platinum certification.

  45. Q3:
    09/02/2010 at 1:59 pm

    “Solitare/The Way” March 16, 2004
    2x Platinum

    In the U.S.? I am pretty sure that it sold less than 350K in the U.S. but, yes, the CRIA certified it Platinum (maybe 2X). That is Canadian, not to be confused with the RIAA, Recording Industry Association of America.

  46. The author used the absence of an RIAA Platinum certification to say that MI didn’t sell over 1 million but Kelly doesn’t have all the certifications that she has qualified for. So it is very possible that MI has sold well over 1 million units and no one ever filed for the Platinum certification.

    Yeah, I would say its a pretty good bet that song is at least Platinum. It was a huge hit… AND it would have picked up additional sales in the Breakaway era.

  47. bigaifan- the article was from April so I am sure alot of the numbers are not the same- it’s still a ballpark. I only factored in debut albums because Adam, Kris, Cook and Archie only have debuts out. It is a shame that the first two seasons are at that disadvantage of not really knowing total sales but what can you do? 2005 was the start of a new era in single sales. My only reason for posting it is because IMHO I think it supports the article yesterday for the dwindling album sales. We live in a single world now unless you are Subo or Eminem :)

  48. MI was released as the lead album single for Kelly’s debut in 2003 as a digital only track. It was used to promote digital music and the digital market.

    I wonder if anyone who can remember that time more clearly can clarify this? I don’t think it was released as a digital-only single when it was released. I think it was released as a promo single only, with digital downloads coming later. Wiki page had the release date as May 2003, but I think it was released earlier (April?), in the middle of Season 2.

    For what’s it worth, one chart I was able to find for digital downloads was for June 29, 2003 – the number 1 download that week sold 1,500, with Kelly Clarkson selling fewer than 1,000 downloads at number 2.

    Actually, Carrie’s “Before He Cheats” has also sold over 3 million, about 3.07 million

    Daughtry’s It’s Not Over also sold over 3 million. The 2 million figure is just for one version of the song.

  49. Actually, Carrie’s “Before He Cheats” has also sold over 3 million, about 3.07 million. Even if you count other albums (not just debut albums), there are just two additions to the top 10 list, both by Kelly: MLWSWY, 2.3 million, and “Since U Been Gone,” 2 million. That makes Kris’ LLWD 10th overall, now with 1.55 million and Adam 11th at just over 1.5 million. At the current pace, Adam could overtake Kris for 10th place in a couple of months.

    These totals are for digital sales of the album version only.

    If you total WWFM CD singles (import sales) and the Remix track sales — WWFM is higher than 1.503 reported on USA Today. Billboard reported WWFM sales for the week ending 4/18/10 with total WWFM sales of 108K Brian reported 100K — meaning the Remix tracks sold 8K the first week of release. My bet is that the WWFM CDs and remix tracks sold at least 40K in total by now. Wish I knew the total. Don’t care about the Idol race, I just want to see a 2XP next to WWFM and it will need every sale unit to get there!

  50. “Bethlehem Musikfest” Adam Lambert, Orianthi
    Sands Riverplace, Bethlehem, PA
    August 13, 2010;
    $204,695; 6,500 of 6,500 (sold-out); $20 – $38

    Holy shit! Over $200K. You go Adam!!! :-)

  51. My only reason for posting it is because IMHO I think it supports the article yesterday for the dwindling album sales. We live in a single world now unless you are Subo or Eminem :)

    Yeah, taking this out of an idol context for a bit, I wonder how labels REALLY see that? Of course album sales are way down and of course there are artists who have multiple smashes making huge dollars off each single… but at the same time there are newer artists who sell albums at what passes for the top level these days LOL.. like Drake, and the dreaded Beiber, Gaga or course, etc… so while more people have huge money generating singles, it IS possible to sell albums and be newer… not everyone is Jason Derulo LOL… I wonder how labels think of both in terms of potential revenue, and what they aim for? I know everyone is trying to figure out the new “rules” of the game to some degree, but sometimes I wonder what is really going on inside record companies’ heads.

  52. I hope Jive is going to release a 3rd single before Kris goes out on tour with Lifehouse in October, because this one is pretty much dead in the water, barring a miracle

    I’d be surprised if he got a 3rd single. Just a hunch that Jive might call it a day with this CD and move on to CD #2.

  53. Don’t want to give up on The Truth just yet. It is a beautiful song and hoping that Jive will promote it some maybe by getting it on tv shows this fall. I think that putting Kris Allen out there, say maybe on the Oprah Show would do wonders. Hoping that Jive also will not give up just yet. I know Kris is busy with touring and all but Jive could make it happen.

  54. Bethlehem Musikfest” Adam Lambert, Orianthi
    Sands Riverplace, Bethlehem, PA
    August 13, 2010;
    $204,695; 6,500 of 6,500 (sold-out); $20 – $38

    That’s very good numbers for Adam & Orianthe. Wow! Congratulations!

    I looked up Cook’s from the previous year & it appears they lowered the ticket prices this year which I think was a good move, but maybe they lowered them a bit too far. It’s difficult to find the “tipping” point. (Cook’s concert ticket price averaged $47, but resulted in slightly lower revenue and less tickets sold.)

  55. Studio57:
    09/02/2010 at 2:40 pm
    bigaifan- the article was from April so I am sure alot of the numbers are not the same- it’s still a ballpark. I only factored in debut albums because Adam, Kris, Cook and Archie only have debuts out. It is a shame that the first two seasons are at that disadvantage of not really knowing total sales but what can you do? 2005 was the start of a new era in single sales. My only reason for posting it is because IMHO I think it supports the article yesterday for the dwindling album sales. We live in a single world now unless you are Subo or Eminem

    You said it! That is why we should not be comparing the sales of artists coming out of different AI seasons, particularly if it is more than one or two years difference. At the same time, yes, we do know what the sales are for earlier seasons, and inasmuch as some would say that those from the early AI seasons are at a disadvantage on singles sales, because now it is easy and cheap to download those singles, they had the benefit of not having that competing for the album sales. Nor did they compete against the free download of songs and videos from many sources. Really, nowadays, who really HAS to pay to download a single?

    That said, if we want to make comparisons, I suppose it is fair to compare Idols from the same season, e.g., Kris, Adam, Danny, and Allison from Season 8. They all have the benefit (and disadvantages) of the same media forms. Of course, the winner has the advantage of having been the winner, but, other than that, they are generally competing under the same conditions. We could only speculate how many more albums Adam, for example, would have sold in 2003 or how many less Kelly would have sold today. If Kris had won on Season 4 or Season 6, for example, will he still be the lowest album seller among the Idol winners, or would Taylor still hold that “distinction”?

  56. You said it! That is why we should not be comparing the sales of artists coming out of different AI seasons, particularly if it is more than one or two years difference.

    I think that’s a good case for not comparing raw numbers, but you could probably still compare across seasons for conversations sake. I mean, for example, a number 1 record is a number 1 record no matter how many sales that means in each era. So I think its perfectly fair to say that an Idol who came out and immediately dominated their genre and/or the pop charts… like say Daughtry did with his top selling album and multiple pop/HAC high charting singles… was more successful than say Cookie or Kris, who were also pop/rock acts. Or you could say Jordin had more success as a teen pop act than Archie or Allison. Of course no comparisons are perfect (the effects in shifts a pop radio changed things, people from the same season being in different genres) but that’s true of any conversation comparing musicians I suppose.

    Still, its not like comparing means anyone involved has to be a failure. Like with the Carrie vs Kelly debate… they’re both doing well, so it doesn’t really matter who comes up on top of what measurement you’re using, you know? Plus it can help add a little perspective. And it would be boring in the numbers thread without it. LOL

  57. I hope Jive is going to release a 3rd single before Kris goes out on tour with Lifehouse in October, because this one is pretty much dead in the water, barring a miracle

    I’d be surprised if he got a 3rd single. Just a hunch that Jive might call it a day with this CD and move on to CD #2.

    My personal opinion: JIVE is ridiculous if they don’t even try on releasing Alright With Me as Kris 3th single.
    but, what do I know about music business.

  58. tinawina:
    09/02/2010 at 3:35 pm

    I think that’s a good case for not comparing raw numbers, but you could probably still compare across seasons for conversations sake. I mean, for example, a number 1 record is a number 1 record no matter how many sales that means in each era.

    Tina,

    Good point. But, we should also consider the outside-Idol competition at the time. When Adam’s CD came out, for example, we had SUBO. Now we have Eminem, Katy and Gaga. So, I think it is best to still compare the Idols to Idols. We do not have any album releases yet for AI9, but we do know that among the AI8 contestants, inasmuch as his album is not Platinum yet, Adam is selling more than all other Idols combined! His best-selling single is about to overtake the winner’s best, and his latest single should go gold in about a month. We also know that inasmuch as Taylor won in AI5, there is no contest, when it comes to sales, with Daughtry. Those two (Adam and Daughtry) did not win yet it is no-contest with the winner. You can say the same for Clay.

    Of course, as you said, for conversation’s sake, you can compare anything! And, yes, regardless of comparisons, they are doing what they want and most are doing well.

  59. Declining album sales over the past five years is a fact of life. So the “fairest” way to compare album sales is with chart position. So the #1 album of the year is always the best selling album whether the sales are 10 Million (back in the day) or 3 million (2010 most likely). Carrie Underwood and Daughtry both had the #1 or #2 (depending on when the official year began)albums of the year with their debuts. I highly doubt anyone off Idol is going to repeat that feat again.

    I doubt Kris gets another single. His album sales and the dls of TT don’t support another single (especially from a cheap label like Jive). I assume by Adam outselling all the other Idols combined you mean the other S9 folk. But selling 400K more albums than Kris ain’t bad. Not quite in the same league as Daughtry selling 4 million albums more than Taylor though (even with the big decline in album sales). ;)

  60. My personal opinion: JIVE is ridiculous if they don’t even try on releasing Alright With Me as Kris 3th single.

    Well according to Adam, RCA may not release any more US singles and I think they are crazy to not release Sleepwalker.

    Labels never do anything the fans think they should do.

  61. It’s expensive to release singles. So for whatever reasons, labels do stop at a certain time. Unless they think they have a sure fire hit, I don’t think Jive or RCA want the expense of another single.

  62. We will have wait and see. I think that Adam will release another single and, yes, I hope it is Sleepwalker but I may be wrong. Adam also needs some TV appearances, singing IIHY. It is beginning to lose momentum. It will make Gold, but if it had all the visibility that WWFM had, it could also be a Platinum single.

    Kris…I am not sure. It looks like, at this rate, his album will never make Gold. He had a great-selling single in LLWD but TT is really struggling. One-hit wonder? That said, if you do not compare him to Adam, he is doing well, enjoying what he is doing, and could have a long career. The question with Adam is a good one: He is just starting, so, how big is he going to become, worldwide? I suspect that those of us who like him are in for a very pleasant surprise — he is going to be huge!

  63. He is just starting, so, how big is he going to become, worldwide? I suspect that those of us who like him are in for a very pleasant surprise — he is going to be huge!

    Nothing like setting him up with high expectations for that second album.

  64. It is beginning to lose momentum

    Which is why, if Adam had TV appearances, he should use it for something else. That could be a springboard to launch another single.

    I don’t think Jive or RCA want the expense of another single.

    I can see this. The only catch with Adam is his International appeal. If they release more singles internationally they might throw it out there in the US and see if it sticks.

  65. It’s extremely unlikely for Kris’ album to go Gold. Especially if Jive stops issuing singles. The album is pretty much over if that happens.

    19 has to save some TV promo for the S9 folks.

  66. jpfan:
    09/02/2010 at 4:09 pm
    I assume by Adam outselling all the other Idols combined you mean the other S9 folk.

    My exact comment was: “…among the AI8 contestants, inasmuch as his album is not Platinum yet, Adam is selling more than all other Idols combined!”

    So, yes, among AI8 contestants, as I said!

  67. Ha ha, I posted S9 instead of S8. It’s like S9 never existed. If there is a miracle, someone from S9 will sell albums. If not, it’s going to get really ugly this fall for 19R. At least Fantasia had a decent opening week and there are still Idol alums on the charts. The Idol brand is going to need all the help it can get.

  68. jpfan:
    09/02/2010 at 4:31 pm
    I wouldn’t say Adam is just starting. His album has been out for almost a year. He’s doing fine but I assume the fact that folks are waiting for him to be huge…means he isn’t already.

    That is correct — In my opinion, he is not huge yet, but I think he will be, and I mean HUGE.

    You would not say he is just starting, yet you say that his album has been out for almost a year. Gee — not quite a year yet, will be in November, and does not have a second album yet. To me, that is just starting (a career as a recording artist). Unless, of course, you think that the career of a recording artist should be only two years…

  69. I don’t have as much time to follow Kris as I would like, but I read the article in headlines today and he mentions his 2nd album.

    Can I assume that his label has officially agreed to a second album?

  70. How expensive is releasing new single? What is involved? Is label paying shows like Leno or Ellen for guest appearance, who sings his newest single? Can single be released w/o all the hoopla? How PD of radio decide what song should be played?
    Does anybody know?

  71. Many Idols jump out of the gate huge, ala Daughtry. I think this is the difference that S8 does not have as compared to previous seasons.

  72. Of course, he (Adam) is doing very well and, at this time, he is among the elite, regardless of the AI season, with Carrie and Daughtry. Those two, and Adam, are the three that you now see, week after week, at the top of the sales, singles and albums, and at the top of AI airplay.

  73. Supposedly it costs 500K to release a new single in the U.S. I read this somewhere and it could be complete bs. That basically means that any single that doesn’t go gold isn’t worth the bother. And to keep it real no one from Idol (except Fantasia) is really on the top of any charts at this time.

    She has a #1radio hit and opened #2 on the album charts so she’s having a good week. Hopefully, she can keep her mojo going for awhile.

  74. How expensive is releasing new single? What is involved? Is label paying shows like Leno or Ellen for guest appearance, who sings his newest single? Can single be released w/o all the hoopla? How PD of radio decide what song should be played?
    Does anybody know?

    I assume all those adds don’t come for free unless you are a core radio artist like KP, Gaga, Britney, etc.

    Even Xtina couldn’t get airplay with her singles and I assume money was spent.

  75. sr4mjc:
    09/02/2010 at 4:42 pm
    Many Idols jump out of the gate huge, ala Daughtry. I think this is the difference that S8 does not have as compared to previous seasons.

    Daughtry is still very big in the U.S.

  76. Of course, he (Adam) is doing very well and, at this time, he is among the elite, regardless of the AI season, with Carrie and Daughtry. Those two, and Adam, are the three that you now see, week after week, at the top of the sales, singles and albums, and at the top of AI airplay.

    I would argue that is temporary and will shift when they are between albums. Cook and Kelly will have new music coming out when Adam and Daughtry and Carrie are back in the studio. We wish the idols can sustain constant radio airplay year round, but it doesn’t work that way.

    Daughtry is still very big in the U.S.

    I never claimed he wasn’t. I meant he started out immediately huge off Idol. While S8 is still working at it and may never get there.

    I like Adam, I just think your expectations for world domination should be tempered a bit. ;)

  77. iIHY is gaining momentum in bfroth top 40 and HAC radio, the AI for HAC has increased dramatically this week and its higher than many songs with more spins. It may be top 20 in both formats for the published charts. Maybe. He does need some type of tv appearance though. We’ll see. As far as comparisons, Daughtry was perfect for his debut, even he can’t compete with his numbers then.

  78. I doubt Kris gets another single. His album sales and the dls of TT don’t support another single (especially from a cheap label like Jive).

    I will call foul if Kris doesn’t get a third single from Jive. They gave Allison, with no momentum behind her, 3 chances at a single. And they totally messed up TT’s rollout. Once the song wasn’t really catching on, they should have done what RCA did for Adam when FYE had problems, and jumped on a new song. (CSA and AWM both would have been great choices, maybe even BWCU)

  79. I would guess the cost of a single release would differ by format too. As an example a release to CHR may be more expensive then a release to AC. AC is unlikely to generate 500k or more singles sales on it’s own.

  80. As far as Fantasia, I am waiting. Yes, she had a good first week, but Carrie, Daughtry and Adam have been the top three for many, many weeks now. Fantasia received a lot of publicity due to her “problems.” We will see if that continues to convert to sales. Right after the album’s release, she had several singles in the top 1000 on iTunes. Now, two weeks later, only one remains there, Back to Me , and is dropping quickly (#328 as I write this). We will see what kind of album and single sales are reported for the next two weeks.

  81. I will call foul if Kris doesn’t get a third single from Jive. They gave Allison, with no momentum behind her, 3 chances at a single. And they totally messed up TT’s rollout. Once the song wasn’t really catching on, they should have done what RCA did for Adam when FYE had problems, and jumped on a new song. (CSA and AWM both would have been great choices, maybe even BWCU)

    I blame some kind of deal with Pat from Train for a single release. They misjudged that one.

  82. Carrie, Daughtry and Adam have been the top three for many, many weeks

    Oops, I misunderstood. I thought you meant these three were on top of the album charts. You mean they’re the three Idols selling the most albums currently. No argument there.

  83. anovich:
    09/02/2010 at 4:51 pm
    Once the song wasn’t really catching on, they should have done what RCA did for Adam when FYE had problems, and jumped on a new song.

    Big difference, I think. The problems of FYE were not the sales. Inasmuch as it had a short life, it sold over 300,000. The problem was the AMA-type problem – It just “pushed” to button too far, particularly for a male singer. I have not read the exact reason, but I think that the label did not want to take any chances.

  84. The money to push is usually in the form of free concerts, radio promo, ads for radio industry publications, etc.

    I’m not as sure about Fantasia as some are, will be interesting to see what her dropoff is this week and how long her record will keep selling. She did sell out her two shows listed above and I bet she’s a strong live draw. Being a touring draw definitely is a plus since there travel can accomplish two purposes at the same time, radio station visits and their concert.

  85. I wouldn’t be surprised if Adam has some type of tv appearance this fall. If you look at his fall schedule there is a little window of opportunity for a tv appearance. RCA seems to do a good job in making him visible. Perhaps Leno, who seems to really like him, and with Rickey Minor on the show it could be a fun appearance. Just an opinion nothing more!

  86. I think Kris will get another single, but its hard to compare to Allison. She didn’t do a lot of radio ipromo for her 2nd or 3rd nor did she get a video for themu. She didn’t do but maybe 1 or 2 radio performances for them, they did do a release with Orianthi but they did do a revised version with Pat Monahan too. still think Kris will get another one.

  87. The money to push is usually in the form of free concerts, radio promo, ads for radio industry publications, etc.

    So the above costs $500,000?
    And if single doesn’t go at least gold then label is losing money?
    With the amount of songs released every week(so it seems)the industry must be DEEP in red.

  88. limi,

    I agree! And, yes, Leno would be great. And, yes, I think that Rickey Minor really likes Adam. During AI8, Adam was always acknowledging the band and thanking Rickey for the arrangements. Of course, Ellen really likes him also, so who knows. The problem, as you mentioned, is the window of opportunity. As we know, as soon as he finishes his GNT in the U.S., he takes it overseas.

  89. limi, I’m checking Adam’s schedule as we speak. Looks like he has some time off on October 26, between 4 and 6PM… Perfect time for TV appearance… :-D

  90. I am just happy that Jive seems to be more patient with Kris than his fans and nonfans are. They just released the video 2 weeks ago. Do you really think they are going to throw the towell in this quickly after the expense of the video. I bet that they will wait awhile and see what happens with it before making any decisions. They gave LLWD time to mature and grow in the market and look what happened with it. If they had pulled the plug after 3 months, Kris would not have had the success that he did with that song. Who knows if TT will be anywhere close to as successful as LLWD, but I think they will give it a little more time to see what happens.

  91. I don’t know about the 500k, you hear different numbers thrown around all the time. The cost may have decreased along with the decrease in sales, I guess.

  92. If you look at his fall schedule there is a little window of opportunity for a tv appearance

    He does? He can’t have much time with his international touring coming in the fall.

    I will say, I’m happily surprised his album is still in the BB200. If they released another single it could help keep his album out there for the 2010 holiday season.

  93. Since Kris is going back out tour in October, I have to think that Jive will give him a 3rd single, probably releasing it just before the tour kicks off.

    I could be wrong, because I have litlle clue about why labels do anything, but it makes sense to have Kris have a current single out there while he’s on tour with Lifehouse. Now, if he wasn’t going back out on tour this fall, then I could see them just moving on to the 2nd album (which considering how much Kris is talking about it, seems to be pretty much a given that he is getting a 2nd album)

    Also, there is my long-standing argument that since Jive gave Allison 3 singles, there is no way they should be able to get away with not giving Kris a 3rd one.

    But as I say, what do I know?

  94. SunSister – I asked that question 2 months ago. Will Kris even get a second album since his sales have not been that great? I was told by someone on here (maybe GirlyGirl or Kirsten) that he definitely would because he was one of Jive’s best selling artists. I guess time will tell….

  95. All this talk about “Jive can’t get away with it because they did so and so for Allison” really makes no sense. Get away with it from who? Record labels treat artists on their rosters different all the time. From the fans? The fans expressed their displeasure with Jive for The Truth / Monahan thing and it didn’t really faze them. In the end, they’ll do what they think is most profitable every time.

  96. Is there such a thing like overplaying the single? I was driving home and I swear that heard Em with Riri on 5 radio stations at the same time. I’m beginning to hate that song. The same happened with Bad Romance, I can’t listen to it without cringing and immediately changing the station.
    But it’s me, what do I know…

  97. Kris finishes his summer tour on Sunday, then he’s going to enjoy some time off. A couple weeks I think. The fall tour starts mid-October.

    I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet, either, but TT definitely needs some kind of national exposure to give it some new life. It would be great if he could do an Ellen spot soon–when does she begin her new season? And when does Conan come back on the air?

    The Lifehouse tour has them in and around NYC from Oct.17-23 (NYC, Philly and Atlantic City). Perfect time to appear on Regis, Letterman, etc. But he needs a single to promote! Will it still be TT or a third single? Hmmm… I’m glad I’m not making these decisions!

  98. Is there such a thing like overplaying the single?

    oh yea. There is a whole discussion about it on the pulse board.

  99. limi, I’m checking Adam’s schedule as we speak. Looks like he has some time off on October 26, between 4 and 6PM… Perfect time for TV appearance…

    Now we both know that’s plenty of time for him!! Haha! After the Singapore gig and before Japan, isn’t there a week? Maybe I’m reading this wrong, and maybe he’s hanging out in Asia for promos etc. but who knows, possibility that’s all I’m saying, also I want to see him on TV again!

    . Of course, Ellen really likes him also, so who knows.

    She does, let’s not forget Oprah!!! He can tape a show at night, he doesn’t need to sleep, he’s young! lol, You never know, I’m just counting on RCA to get their boy out there before he goes abroad. Hope I did the block quote things ok, I’m really bad at it!

  100. The Lifehouse tour has them in and around NYC from Oct.17-23 (NYC, Philly and Atlantic City). Perfect time to appear on Regis, Letterman, etc. But he needs a single to promote! Will it still be TT or a third single? Hmmm… I’m glad I’m not making these decisions!

    Would they do this with Lee’s single/album coming out… have a previous year winner on in the same window. (IDK I’ve never paid attention to this before). They are on different labels, etc. so you’d think that from the promoters standpoint there wouldn’t be a conflict at all..but what about from the show’s program manager’s view? Are the lead in sound bites too similar for Lee and Kris from a show promo standpoint?

    Yes,,, though they need to release #3 – now!

  101. Allison is the wrong person to compare Kris too. Jive imo never indicated interest in pushing her to radio and none of her singles charted. Placing a single on a new music list for radio stations cannot take a lot of time or money to do.

    I’d compare him to Jordin.

  102. Overplaying a single can affect album sales but it hasn’t hurt Em or Gaga. Even with overplayed singles their album sales are amazing.

    The best TV gig for Adam would be an appearance on the MTV Music Awards as a presenter. Is it def that he won’t appear? Even sitting in the audience is high profile because that is really the biggest night of the year for Top 40 artists.

    Jordin had bigger Top 40 hits than Kris or Adam. I wouldn’t really compare Kris to her. Jive did what they could do with Allison. TBH I was surprised when they signed her. She was never an easy sell from day one. I hate to say it but I could see Jive dropping her around Xmas time. That’s usually when the dirty deed is done.

  103. Oksana2000:
    09/02/2010 at 4:41 pm

    How expensive is releasing new single? What is involved? Is label paying shows like Leno or Ellen for guest appearance, who sings his newest single? Can single be released w/o all the hoopla? How PD of radio decide what song should be played?
    Does anybody know?

    In my opinion, I feel that the reason they are not so sure about releasing another single off of FYE for Adam is that there are plans to begin working on album #2 very soon. Yes, there is still time between IIHY and the spring target date for his next album to release Sleepwalker. However, a large part of having a single out is promoting it. I’m thinking that Adam will be devoting his time and energy into his second album, which I’m happy about. This does not leave a whole lot of time for promoting. Having said all of the above, I must say it would be a travesty if Sleepwalker was never singled……. JMHO

  104. CindyM

    “Get away with it” is probably the wrong term to use. But I would argue that it could cause problems between the label and Kris’s mgmt team if Jive gives Allison more singles than they give Kris. After all, Kris has sold way more than Allison — both in terms of singles and albums. I would think that the label would prefer to avoid problems with an artist’s mgmt when possible. And this potential problem could easily be avoided simply by releasing a 3rd single. Jive will never admit they screwed up the choice of the 2nd single, but they have the chance to make up for that mess by releasing a 3rd single — one that they can push to both Pop and Hot AC rather than just the one format (which was THE big mistake with the 2nd single — why would you ignore pushing Kris to Pop market after his debut single went Top 10 in tat format? Just DUMB — even if Jive thinks he’s a Hot AC artist, the radio PDs and listening public didn’t necessarily agree)

    Of course, again, what do I know? Jive might not care if they tick of Kris and his mgmt team. And they probably don’t care that pretty much everyone blames them for screwing up the release of a 2nd single. But again, it just seems to make much more sense to have your artist actually have a current single in release while he’s out on tour. Maybe that’s too simplistic an outlook on my part, but I don’t see the downside to releasing a 3rd single in advance of this Lifehouse tour.

  105. Is there such a thing like overplaying the single? I was driving home and I swear that heard Em with Riri on 5 radio stations at the same time. I’m beginning to hate that song. The same happened with Bad Romance, I can’t listen to it without cringing and immediately changing the station.
    But it’s me, what do I know…

    Did you buy them before you grew to hate them? The million dollar question right? I know I’ve bought singles that I loved at the time and don’t listen to now. A sale is a sale though.

    The best TV gig for Adam would be an appearance on the MTV Music Awards as a presenter. Is it def that he won’t appear? Even sitting in the audience is high profile because that is really the biggest night of the year for Top 40 artists.

    He’s got a concert in New Orleans that night. No VMAs for Adam.

  106. But I would argue that it could cause problems between the label and Kris’s mgmt team if Jive gives Allison more singles than they give Kris. After all, Kris has sold way more than Allison — both in terms of singles and albums. I would think that the label would prefer to avoid problems with an artist’s mgmt when possible.

    I really hope they release a 3rd.. but I’m not sure Allison’s decisions would at all impact Kris’s decisions. I think they kept throwing Allison’s singles out in hopes of recouping the costs in some way. IMO with Kris they’ve probably recouped. The two artists & their potential have nothing to do with each other now. AI is in their history.

    How many times is he opening for his fall gig? JMO but I don’t think that the fall gig would impact the decision that much to release #3.

    ETA: sorry if this post sound sort of clipped and blunt. I’m pretty tired, so as I’m reading this, its not in my usual posting ‘voice’

  107. He’s got a concert in New Orleans that night. No VMAs for Adam.

    Too bad. An appearance at the VMAs is a great way to gets tons of media attention.

  108. IMO, the third single for Allison was a last ditch effort to make some money from her album and also get Orianthi’s name out there on something else. They messed up with Scars. Ori’s got a new release of the song ‘Courage’ coming, with a collab with someone else. I don’t remember the name of the person off hand.

    On the other hand, Jive has made money off of Kris, they may close the book like they did with Cook after CBTM. Or maybe not, we shall see. But I don’t think management has anything to do with the number of singles one gets, that’s a label decision.

  109. How many times is he opening for his fall gig?

    26 (iirc), so he definitely needs to have a single to promote.

  110. Kris is doing 26 concerts with Lifehouse, over 5 weeks’ time (Oct. 15-Nov. 24, I think). That is a lot of concerts and he will likely be doing a bunch of promotion (look at all the interviews and radio station gigs he’s been doing even when opening for Keith Urban or Maroon 5). It just seems like a big opportunity for Jive and for Kris to gt another song on the charts — and hopefully sell more downloads then they have with TT.

  111. Too bad. An appearance at the VMAs is a great way to gets tons of media attention.<

    There is still the AMA….ehm..ehm.. And I wouldn't be surprised if he was asked to appear. Seriously. Imagine the ratings?

  112. Isn’t Adam scheduled to still be touring overseas at the time of the AMAs?

  113. girlygirl:
    09/02/2010 at 6:31 pm
    Isn’t Adam scheduled to still be touring overseas at the time of the AMAs?

    I was being sarcastic…

  114. I think Adam is in Europe during the AMA’s , not positive though. But seriously the ratings would be incredible to have him on again, people would tune in just “to see”. I’m not being sarcastic, I think it would be a media field day!!

  115. i think I remember Adam saying in a recent interview, that there were no definite plans for another single, but depending on how IIHY does. But I also don’t recall him saying there would absolutely be no other single. He loves to do videos, and any new single is going to have one!! Who knows, all we can do is stay tuned!

  116. limi, believe me, if AMA’s wanted Adam, he would accomodate his schedule to be there. One thing we both agree on,the ratings would go thru the roof…so..maybe? :-D

  117. I would love to see video for Sleepwalker. So many possibilities.
    And I can bet it would be something none of us imagined.

  118. Unless they only have Adam on to present and make a joke about last year, Adam isn’t going to be anywhere near the AMAs. If I were him I’d be offended if they asked him to do that. (Not saying they have or will, of course.) But I doubt they’d let him perform.

    Kayne and Tayor together at the VMAs, that will make people talk. But besides Kayne being a huge jackass and giving Taylor the career boost of a lifetime, no one was offended the prior year. (Not saying I was offended by Adam either)

  119. sr4mjc, be real, publicity is publicity. An artist has to be visible. I already read comments, that Adam disappeared from mainstream media. As much as I love AFL I am not looking thru rainbow colored glasses.Entertainment bussiness is very competitive and our dear boi does not need to feel offended. Just sayin’

  120. It will be interesting if we are able to get international numbers for Adam for these number threads while he is on the overseas tour. We live in Asia at the moment, and he’s getting big promo on Star World, which is the major cable entertainment channel for the region. The Singapore Forumal 1 race is a big deal and the promo for his concerts (with Mariah, Daughtry, Missy Elliot) on TV, on Singapore Airlines, on Orchard Road (Singapore’ 5th Ave) etc. I’m sad we couldn’t get tickets to get there for it. Maybe we can try for the KL or Manila concerts. I think KL is not sold out yet. I can only imagine that his promo is HUGE in Japan too. He’s also been on the VH1 channel for Asia a lot. It’s really exciting to see so much of him! I can’t wait for him to get the region even if we can’t travel to one of his shows.

    Oh, and as to what he will do between the Sept 26 Formula 1 concert and the Oct 3 appearance in Japan, for his sake I hope he doesn’t travel back and forth to the US twice in that time. I hope he goes to a beach in Thailand or something…

  121. fanaround, are you saying that his Singapore concerts are sold-out?
    That’s wonderful news! :-)

  122. Maybe I worded it wrong, but if the AMAs has him on as some kind of apology/joke skit kind of thing, I still wouldn’t do it. It’s exposure sure, but after defending himself for a year I just don’t see it being a good idea. maybe it’s not coming out right. I just don’t want ‘Lambert apologies in jest’ type press.

  123. Hi Oksana2000, sorry if I was confusing – you buy tickets to the race and can also get to the concerts, so the numbers will probably be hard to track. It being Singapore, they are probably totally organized and will be counting people at the various concerts. I meant that we couldn’t get reasonable plane flights and hotels during that time and the tickets left for the race themselves are also really pricey, although I think they released some more walkabout tickets recently that get you to the stage for one of Adam’s days. We were on vacation when this came out and I blew it on getting organized :(

  124. Count me as one of those who isn’t ready to give up on “The Truth,” yet. As was said earlier, the video has just been released. HAC is a much slower climb and songs can get stuck at a particular position for a while. Then, there is AC which once it puts its teeth into a song just won’t let go, as evidenced by the fact that LLWD and WWFM are still in the top 10 there. Kris picked up an AC add for TT last week. Seems like we were having the same conversation right after LLWD came out when it didn’t zoom up the charts, with people expressing doubts that Kris would even get a second single. Then there were doubts as to whether he would get a video for the second single. Kris is a prime example of the benefits of slow and sure… TT is not LLWD, obviously, and may never be big on Pop, but stations who still love LLWD are just now discovering TT. In a radio interview with Kris the other day a DJ said, “I love your song. We spin it all the time.” Kris said, “LLWD?” and the DJ said, “Yeah, why, do you have another single out?” Let’s give it time…

  125. sr4mjc,we both know that Adam would never go for anything resembling apology. He haven’t apologized so far and he is not going to. But a good joke? He said many times that he doesn’t take himself to seriously…
    Not to worry, ABC is still stupid enough to boycott him….we will probably end up with Fetus…

  126. fanaround,thanks for an explanation. The situation at the races is similar to Balloon Festival in Quebec. Still about 50,000 strong came to listen to Adam. :-)

  127. Well, that’s Kris promoting the single in the workman like way to DJs, even if he does distance himself in a polite lowkey way from the Pat decision in those interviews. That seems really to not have paid off in terms of numbers with any immediate rush of Train fans. Pat didn’t even join him to sing it when they performed together. Still so strange. I’d like another single, but then I’m an overinvested fan in both Kris and Adam. Speaking of, I’d love Sleepwalker as a single.

  128. I’d be in favor of Adam tied to a chair with a head mike and belting out Soaked. That would make a statement. Cheeky ;)

  129. sr4mjc,the second you said about Adam tied to a chair my imagination started to run wild… :-D
    I better shut up now..

  130. sr4mjc,the second you said about Adam tied to a chair my imagination started to run wild…
    I better shut up now..

    No don’t shut up you’re just getting started and it’s getting interesting!! lol

  131. Regarding Adam being at the MTV VMAs — he has a concert in New Orleans on 9/12/10 so very unlikely. MTV VMA are live at 9PM ET.

    And yes, looks like there will be another Adam single at least in US and New Zealand.

    Posted today on AO.com on US and NZ nodes.

    “New Adam Single!

    That’s right, a new Adam single will be out VERY soon! Can you guess which song from the album it will be? Leave a comment with your guess! ALSO, head over to our Twitter and Facebook pages and tell us your favourite Adam song there – you could find yourself winning a little something!”

    Link: http://www.adamofficial.com/us/node/1699112

    Also Sony New Zealand tweeted and posted this 2 hours ago….

    New Adam Single For NZ!

    Hey Glam Fans! We have received an overwhelming response from all of you out there regarding your favourite Adam Lambert tracks. We will be taking a new single to New Zealand radio shortly!

    For New Zealand relevant news & updates keep checking our official Facebook & Twitter accounts. We love you all but please remember giveaways are open to NZ residents only. Thanks for all of your support!

  132. limi,the topic of this thread is STATS
    What goes thru my mind is suddenly OFF TOPIC.. :-)

  133. I know the URL for that singles post is now under US, but all the links point to twitter and Facebook for NZ. Unless RCA Ed gets chatty, I’m going to assume no new US single for now. No use getting hopes up.

  134. Make of this what you will. Someone who is at Kris’s show tonight tweeted the following:

    “Kris introduced TT by saying he hopes everyone will hear it on the radio in the months ahead.”

  135. Unless RCA Ed gets chatty, I’m going to assume no new US single for now. No use getting hopes up.

    Q3 has been uncannily accurate about things regarding Adam in the past so I am pretty sure a new single is in the works and I am betting it is SW. I think IIHY has done well enough for a new single to be put out there. I’d say end of September, early October. It really is a gorgeous song and Adam kills it live. It will be perfect for him to sing after he gets back from the European promo around the holidays on TV the way he did WWFM and give it a final boost before getting ready to send a single from the new album in the Spring. There, I’ve worked it all out, Sony just needs to get it done, LOL!

  136. It really is a gorgeous song and Adam kills it live.

    I totally agree with this and everything else you stated, aa618892. I’ve always felt that it has the most radio potential of all of his album songs.
    Yup, it has been my favorite since Day 1!

  137. Does every writer on an album get a certification plaque? Ely Rise who was one of the co-writers on Aftermath just tweeted this:

    elythecreep Look what just got dropped off….woohoo!! #gold http://tweetphoto.com/42917944 about 1 hour ago via ÜberTwitter

  138. Yup, it has been my favorite since Day 1!

    dcglam- I have to say the recorded version is not one of my favorites on Adam’s album but I have a couple of the live versions on my iPod, one of them is acoustic, and I can’t get enough of them. The only thing I worry about is that they will edit out the guitar solo for radio and love that part but the song is too long as it is.

  139. Q3:
    09/02/2010 at 8:25 pm
    ………..
    And yes, looks like there will be another Adam single at least in US and New Zealand.

    Posted today on AO.com on US and NZ nodes.

    “New Adam Single!

    That’s right, a new Adam single will be out VERY soon! Can you guess which song from the album it will be? Leave a comment with your guess! ALSO, head over to our Twitter and Facebook pages and tell us your favourite Adam song there – you could find yourself winning a little something!”

    Link: http://www.adamofficial.com/us/node/1699112

    It looks like that AO.com announcement only refers to New Zealand. The RCA Mod has revised the above post to the following:

    New Adam Single!
    That’s right, a new Adam single for New Zealand will be out VERY soon! Can you guess which song from the album it will be? Leave a comment with your guess! ALSO, head over to our Twitter and Facebook pages and tell us your favourite Adam song there – you could find yourself winning a little something!

  140. elythecreep Look what just got dropped off….woohoo!! #gold http://tweetphoto.com/42917944 about 1 hour ago via ÜberTwitter

    CindyM- wow, very cool. I guess all writers do get one of these. So this means FYE has been officially certified Gold.

  141. jpfan:
    09/02/2010 at 6:04 pm

    He’s got a concert in New Orleans that night. No VMAs for Adam.

    Too bad. An appearance at the VMAs is a great way to gets tons of media attention.

    Its Adam he’ll probably get tons of attention for not appearing….. LOL :lol:

  142. saw on Kris concert thread that MTV-Hits is adding The Truth MV next week and will be airing it in rotation about 10-12 times per week to start.Perhaps another sign that lael is still trying to push it? (to go along with what Kris said at his concert tonight)?

  143. @Limi: Poor Adam .. give him a break during Singapore and Japan :-) I hope he and his band and dancers can take a one week rest in a tropical resort after 3 months of with grueling tour schedule in the USA…
    @Dcglam: I thought there are talks about a release of an accoustic album with some FYE songs…

  144. This statement is not from RCA ED — it is on the New Zealand node at AO.com. And it was in response to the barrage of tweets they got to their question about what single to release. (Look at the Sony New Zealand Twitter feed.)

    New Adam Single!
    That’s right, a new Adam single for New Zealand will be out VERY soon! Can you guess which song from the album it will be? Leave a comment with your guess! ALSO, head over to our Twitter and Facebook pages and tell us your favourite Adam song there – you could find yourself winning a little something!

    Link: http://www.adamofficial.com/nz/news

    The NZ node is Sony New Zealand — the same folks who tweeted the link to it.

    The US node still has the news post about the new Adam single — with no comment or correction. No reason not to believe it is real. It is not a fan post — it is a AO.com news post.

    So we know that there will be a live Concert DVD from RCA Ed and an acoustic FYE EP from Adam, RCA Ed and a number of other RCA and Sony representatives. IIHY is Adam’s second Top 40 Hit. Why whouldn’t RCA release another single to radio to promote this product? IMO makes no sense to go dark on radio over the critical holiday season when they will have product to sell. And has RCA even stopped releasing single from an Idol album when the last single was a hit and they had product to promote?

    Sure Sony/RCA screws up a lot but to go dark with Adam from October until next March when he’s hot, they have a Teddar single sitting on the album and they have new Adam product to promote this fall? Why would they do that?

    ETA: Adam is done with his part of two big projects — Live DVD Concert video was filmed in Indianapolis earlier this week — also will be used on VEVO. Acoustic FYE already recorded.

  145. Acoustic FYE already recorded.

    How do you know this is fact? When has he been in the studio?

    and that’s what i was saying before, the new single is about NZ.

  146. Didn’t Tedder already say SW would be the next single in Europe? So I wouldn’t be surprised if it was released here in the US. I have to agree with Q3, it seems logical to release another single while FYE is still in the BB200, around mid-October. With any luck Adam could perform SW on AI in February, around the time it peaks(that is if SW follows the same chart pattern as WWFM and IIHY).

  147. undercooked:
    09/02/2010 at 10:53 pm
    Didn’t Tedder already say SW would be the next single in Europe? So I wouldn’t be surprised if it was released here in the US. I have to agree with Q3, it seems logical to release another single while FYE is still in the BB200, around mid-October. With any luck Adam could perform SW on AI in February, around the time it peaks(that is if SW follows the same chart pattern as WWFM and IIHY).

    I did read that in October IIHU is going to be released in Germany. I don’t doubt for a second that Adam will get a third single in the States. I think it’s either Sleepwalker or Aftermath.

  148. Poor Adam .. give him a break during Singapore and Japan

    Hey, I don’t schedule Adam, just commenting on time breaks, RCA never seems to let grass grow under his feet for long, lol!! I think he deserves a big break in Tahiti like he says he wants.

    sorry about being off topic, my weaker side took over for a minute.

    The gold certification is beautiful- you never know if this album keeps chugging along it may get to platinum. I love Lee Cherry’s work, hope he’s involved in the second album cover. I really hope Sleepwalker is released as a single, I remember being taken aback when he sang it on Leno. Time will tell!!

  149. Does anyone know when Adam’s European concert dates are being released, it seems funny that not one date is out there, unless I missed it, which could be.

  150. The US node still has the news post about the new Adam single — with no comment or correction. No reason not to believe it is real. It is not a fan post — it is a AO.com news post.

    This is the link that you initially posted for the announcement at the AO.com site (U.S.) for the new single:

    http://www.adamofficial.com/us/node/1699112

    If you go to that link, the first post is this:

    New Adam Single!
    That’s right, a new Adam single for New Zealand will be out VERY soon! Can you guess which song from the album it will be? Leave a comment with your guess! ALSO, head over to our Twitter and Facebook pages and tell us your favourite Adam song there – you could find yourself winning a little something!

    It clearly states that the new single is for New Zealand. Is there another post on AO.com (U.S.) that you are referring to? Would you please post that link?

  151. It clearly states that the new single is for New Zealand.

    I saw this too. I think they went back and corrected it overnight.

  152. Couple new Glam Nation Tour boxscores posted this morning:

    8/26/2010 Adam Lambert, Allison Iraheta
    Roanoke Performing Arts Theatre, Roanoke, VA
    Outback Concerts
    1,987 / 2,000 99%
    $37.75 – $0
    $71,574

    8/19/2010 Adam Lambert, Orianthi, Allison Iraheta
    Cape Cod Melody Tent, Hyannis, MA
    (In-House Promotion) / Vincent Longo
    2,250 / 2,250 100%
    $28.50 – $45.50
    $70,710

    We now have 23 boxscores for GNT dates (plus a boxscore for Musikfest which was not officially advertised as GNT even though Adam did his full set there). Over 99% of available tickets were sold for those 24 dates, with 19 verified sellouts. Total gross for those 24 dates is over $2.6 million.

    Full GNT spreadsheet here: http://bit.ly/dtUNHE

  153. eywflyer, I don’t get 2.6 million. More like 2.3 million. I have to check my Excel w/s against yours again.

  154. It clearly states that the new single is for New Zealand.

    I saw this too. I think they went back and corrected it overnight.

    It was changed earlier in the evening (at least, that’s when I noticed that it had been changed) which is why I posted it here.

  155. Adam’s tour has been very successful, in a year when touring has been difficult for many artists.

  156. It was changed earlier in the evening (at least, that’s when I noticed that it had been changed) which is why I posted it here.

    Sorry.. it sounded like you were questioning if it was ever even posted as Q3 (or whoever) wrote, not that it may have changed.

  157. Sorry.. it sounded like you were questioning if it was ever even posted as Q3 (or whoever) wrote, not that it may have changed.

    No, I realize that the initial post on AO.com (U.S.) was the same as the one that Q3 posted, but the links in that post all went to the NZ info, making it seem like the new single news only pertained to NZ, even if the post at AO.com (U.S.) wasn’t specific. They must have changed the post at AO.com (U.S.) at some point when it became comfusing and fans thought that the message referred to a new domestic single release from FYE (which may still happen). My confusion was when Q3 posted this in response to the change:

    The US node still has the news post about the new Adam single — with no comment or correction. No reason not to believe it is real. It is not a fan post — it is a AO.com news post.

    That’s why I asked if she was referring to a different post, since the one at the link that she had posted earlier had been changed, yet she claimed that it had not been changed.

  158. Given the stats for the Minneapolis Idol stop, I hope Live Nation (if they are still concert planners for season 10) take note and look for smaller capacity places for the touring 10. It had to be quite discouraging to this year’s crew to see stops cancelled and others barely half full.

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