Idol Sales News – Week Ending 01/17/10

Another Wednesday, another sales report. Will the Idols get a bump from the return of Idol? Can it offset the sagging iTunes sales now that everybody has used up all their gift cards? Let’s see…

Carrie goes platinum. Kris cracks the top 20 and Adam moves into the top 50. And Daughtry manages to sell almost exactly the same number of downloads they sold last week. How bizarre is that?

On the album front. Jason’s EP debuts while Carrie’s first album (24%), Kris (13%) and Adam (9%) see an increase in sales.

Idol Sales Numbers (Billboard Date 1/30/10)

Downloads
18 Kris Allen “Live Like We’re Dying” 69, 155 (7%; 64, 667) Total: 620, 062 (27)
38 Carrie Underwood “Cowb0y Casanova” 43, 715 (-15%; lw 51, 315) Total: 1, 010, 204 (36) **NOW PLATINUM**
46 Adam Lambert “Whataya Want From Me” 37, 430 (14%; lw 32, 801) Total: 206, 124 (65)
50 Daughtry “Life After You” 36, 366 (0%; 36, 336) Total: 273, 599 (59)
129 Carrie Underwood “Temporary Home” 15, 932 (6%; lw 15, 033) Total: 111, 700 (157)

Albums
Carrie Underwood “Play On” 22K (-2%) Total: 1.227M
Adam Lambert “For Your Entertainment” 12K (9%) Total: 457K
Daughtry “Leave This Town” 8K (0%) Total: 899K
Kris Allen, Kris Allen “6K (13%) Total: 240K
Jason Castro “The Love Uncompromised EP” 6K Total: 6K
Katharine McPhee “Unbroken” 5K (-67%) Total: 20K
Kelly Clarkson “All I Ever Wanted” 3K (-6%) Total: 822K
Daughtry “Daughtry” 3K (-1%) Total: 4.620M
Carrie Underwood “Some Hearts” 3K (24%) Total: 6.923M

Rounded numbers from Brian at Idol Chatter.

Airplay before recurrents are removed (increase in audience impressions)
No. 11 – Kelly Clarkson (-4.0 million) – lw 11
No. 50 – Kris Allen (+1.4 million) – lw 51
No. 87 – Daughty (+1.1 million) – lw 88
No. 100 – Adam Lambert (+0.7 million) – lw 109

Streaming:
No. 4 Already Gone – lw 4
No. 22 Live Like We’re Dying

Last Week’s Numbers

Post them if you have them. Thanks!

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

444 Comments

  1. Carrie Underwood, Play On (22,000, -2 percent, 1.227 million total)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Music! 32 (18,000, -6 percent, 713,000)
    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 2 (18,000, -29 percent, 472,000)
    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 1 (15,000, -26 percent, 678,000)
    Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment (12,000, +9 percent, 457,000)
    Daughtry, Leave This Town (8,000, 0 change, 899,000)
    Various, WOW Hits 2010 (8,000, -2 percent, 260,000)
    Kris Allen, Kris Allen (6,000, +13 percent, 240,000)
    Jason Castro, The Love Uncompromised EP (6,000, debut, 6,000)
    Katharine McPhee, Unbroken (5,000, -67 percent, 20,000)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Music! 31 (4,000, +4 percent, 858,000)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Country Vol. 2 (4,000, +5 percent, 225,000)
    Kelly Clarkson, All I Ever Wanted (3,000, -6 percent, 822,000)
    Daughtry, Daughtry (3,000, -1 percent, 4.620 million)
    Carrie Underwood, Some Hearts (3,000, +24 percent, 6.923 million)

    From Idol Chatter
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2010/01/adam-lambert-kris-allen-see-weekly-album-sales-gains/1

  2. Another great sales week for LLWD. That song just keeps on chugging. Its sales really are outpacing the sales of those around it on the pop chart which shows how much people like the song. Some songs that are higher, like Orianthi’s, are selling miserably, despite having Top 10 pop airplay.

    Also, is this the first week we’ve gotten a streaming ranking for Kris?

  3. Daughtry is very consistent this week. They sold the same number of albums over the last two weeks, and now they’ve sold the same number of singles for two weeks in a row.

  4. Nice to see that WWFM increased its sales last week.

    Adam seeing a nice Oprah bump on itunes and amazon. Been bouncing between #5 and #6 on Amazon; on itunes, WWFM #21, FYE#156, FYE deluxe #33 and regular #48 (these may have changed since I last looked early this am). He also had a good mediabase update today — up to #30 pop with +68 spins, and #36 HAC. Good news for Adam fans.

  5. Another great sales week for LLWD. That song just keeps on chugging. Its sales really are outpacing the sales of those around it on the pop chart which shows how much people like the song. Some songs that are higher, like Orianthi’s, are selling miserably, despite having Top 10 pop airplay.

    True. LLWD sales have always outpaced it’s amount of airplay, which is why I don’t understand how PDs can justify not playing/adding the song. It just makes no sense. I think Jive needs to take out more banners highlighting the song’s AI and its sales, as well as directly make PDs aware of this.

  6. Also, is this the first week we’ve gotten a streaming ranking for Kris?

    Yes.

  7. Daughtry manages to sell EXACTLY the same number of downloads they sold last week. How bizarre is that?

    Nope. It’s not the same. 36366 (TW) vs 36336 (LW) ;)

  8. Nope. It’s not the same. 36366 (TW) vs 36336 (LW) ;)

    LOL. Oops. Reading error. I still think it’s pretty amazing.

  9. True. LLWD sales have always outpaced it’s amount of airplay, which is why I don’t understand how PDs can justify not playing/adding the song. It just makes no sense. I think Jive needs to take out more banners highlighting the song’s AI and its sales, as well as directly make PDs aware of this.

    Here is the thing though. If a song is played on the radio too much, I don’t download it because its ALWAYS on the radio and I get sick of it. Examples….anything by Taylor Swift, Lady GaGa or Rihanna. Their songs are always on the 3 stations programmed in my car and there have been times when the same song is on all 3 stations at the same time! Why download when they play them literally every hour?

  10. That is hilarious that Daughtry sold the EXACT same number! Wow! What are the chances!

    Some songs that are higher, like Orianthi’s, are selling miserably, despite having Top 10 pop airplay.

    Orianthi’s song is not particularly catchy or good, imo. It’s like a weaker Taylor retread. I personally think she is over-rated and is probably being pushed to radio as a new pop girl, only to likely be overtaken by Kesha’s more Gaga-esque style now. She is a brilliant guitarist though, but I just have this sense that she brings nothing special as an actual lead vocalist.

    LLWD, otoh, very catchy – so congrats to it for more strong sales! Platinum is definitely happening for it eventually.

    And hooray for WWFM still increasing sales too with the airplay. I guess next week should see a pretty sizable increase for it because of the MV and Oprah bump :-)

    Kinda surprised Kris didn’t see more of a % increase on album sales. He seemed to move up a lot on the charts right after the premiere, and he was rather heavily featured on AI last week.

  11. Nice week for Kris! I guess the Platinum predictions will start pretty soon, lol.

    I’m loving seeing him so high on the streaming rankings, which means people are seeking out the song online and playing it. I agree with washpd about the sales v. airplay comparison – LLWD is far, far outselling its spincount, so I do hope PDs are taking note. I’d love to see Clear Channel on board with this song!

    We should see a nice bump on the BB H100 later this afternoon, too, maybe #27-#28?

    Oh, and congrats to Carrie for platinum sales on CC!

  12. Oh man, I keep rubbing my eyes to see if I’m imagining things!

    WWFM was in the 70’s last week- and now it’s friggin’ #21!!!!

    I hope it stays as high and doesn’t drop too drastically after the Oprah-bump wears off…

    BTW- Adam fans- remember you can vote for WWFM MV on the VH1 countdown…

  13. Here is the thing though. If a song is played on the radio too much, I don’t download it because its ALWAYS on the radio and I get sick of it. Examples….anything by Taylor Swift, Lady GaGa or Rihanna.

    Interesting point. I was reluctant to buy any Gaga singles because of this – I would hear not 1, but often 3 or 4 of her songs very frequently on the radio at any one time. No need to buy.

  14. Why download when they play them literally every hour?

    And yet, many people do. Those three ladies have moved some serious units.

    Anybody checking out the iTunes pop bars this morning will be amazed. Taylor Swift is kicking major butt with that song that she released yesterday. Ke$ha moved almost 250K of “TikTok” last week and the pop bars are less than half what they are for “Today Was a Fairytale”. Poor Beiber, he’s going to have awesome numbers too (easily outpacing “TikTok”), but the news is all going to be about the Swifter cleaning up again.

  15. I hope it stays as high and doesn’t drop to drastically after the Oprah-bump wears off…

    It may drop a little, but as of Friday it had increased to the 30’s, with the MV release, and didn’t seem to drop from there. So I think the MV, plus more radio play is now keeping it higher, which is what happened as LLWD increased radioplay too.

    BTW- Adam fans- remember you can vote for WWFM MV on the VH1 countdown…

    Done and done :-)

  16. Anybody checking out the iTunes pop bars this morning will be amazed. Taylor Swift is kicking major butt with that song that she released yesterday?

    IKR? Taylor is incredible – that girls sells something fierce. She is SO far out ahead of everyone else – it’s nice to see another song at the top.

  17. Is there a mistake on Kris’s album sales? It says he sold 6,000. Last week, he sold 5,000. Did he only get a 1,000 bump from Idol Premiere? That can’t be right.

    Oh luving Brain’s Mansfield’s spin on things today:

    In fact, Kris Allen and Adam Lambert both saw sales increases this past week, according to Nielsen SoundScan. Adam increased his week-to-week sales of For Your Entertainment by slightly more than 1,000, while sales of Kris Allen’s debut were up 13 percent.

    Without numbers, what does his spin on things lead you to believe?

  18. Nope. It’s not the same. 36366 (TW) vs 36336 (LW)

    Oops, I was looking at the percentages. The numbers are still very close, it’s weird to have that happen two weeks in a row, and in both album and single sales.

    Here is the thing though. If a song is played on the radio too much, I don’t download it because its ALWAYS on the radio and I get sick of it. Examples….anything by Taylor Swift, Lady GaGa or Rihanna. Their songs are always on the 3 stations programmed in my car and there have been times when the same song is on all 3 stations at the same time! Why download when they play them literally every hour?

    Interesting take, but considering the relation between sales and airplay, I’d rather that LLWD was being overplayed.

    Besides sales, there is the issue of visibility. Getting played on as many stations as possible, especially Pop stations, will make people aware of who Kris is and his music, which will translate to album sales, as well as increase Kris’ popularity, which is something that he needs. There are still top 40 stations in very large markets that aren’t playing this song, that needs to change.

  19. LLWD sells more like a Pop smash than songs way higher on the Pop charts. Come on Jive (you cheap label) spend some $ highlighting the song’s success. And platinum is looking like a real possibility.

    Those songs that get played 24/7 like Gaga still sell millions of downloads. The more a song gets played on the radio, the better.

  20. Is there a mistake on Kris’s album sales? It says he sold 6,000. Last week, he sold 5,000. Did he only get a 1,000 bump from Idol Premiere? That can’t be right.

    No its right. It just shows how few units difference there are in the itunes rankings once you get below the top ten. As others have said repeatedly, itunes is a very small portion of the album sales market.

  21. That’s why I like Billboard’s rankings the best. They figure in airplay on all the charts, sales, and streaming, so they give a somewhat more realistic picture of how the song is doing overall. LLWD should see a nice, little bump there this week.

  22. Here is the thing though. If a song is played on the radio too much, I don’t download it because its ALWAYS on the radio and I get sick of it. Examples….anything by Taylor Swift, Lady GaGa or Rihanna. Their songs are always on the 3 stations programmed in my car and there have been times when the same song is on all 3 stations at the same time! Why download when they play them literally every hour?

    True for me too. But I guess it doesn’t work that way for many people since those ladies are killing it with the digital sales.

  23. In fact, Kris Allen and Adam Lambert both saw sales increases this past week, according to Nielsen SoundScan. Adam increased his week-to-week sales of For Your Entertainment by slightly more than 1,000, while sales of Kris Allen’s debut were up 13 percent.

    Without numbers, what does his spin on things lead you to believe?

    Hmm – yeah, I don’t read his column at all. Saw enough snippets to realize that he tends to come across a bit biased (to put it mildly) – and yes, I know he’s more of a Danny fan than even a Kris fan, but, whatevs. I’ll read what I want to read ;-)

    Besides sales, there is the issue of visibility. Getting played on as many stations as possible, especially Pop stations, will make people aware of who Kris is and his music, which will translate to album sales, as well as increase Kris’ popularity, which is something that he needs. There are still top 40 stations in very large markets that aren’t playing this song, that needs to change.

    Good point. For all the people like me who hear a song 20,000 times and decide not to buy it as a result, there are more than enough people out there who, because it’s being played 20,000 times hear it just enough to get it stuck in their heads and want to buy it. The correlation between radioplay and sales is just too strong to ignore.

  24. I’m sorry, but the idea that Mansfield is biased against Adam or towards Kris is just laughable.

  25. Why does FYE have an increase of 18% on HDD but only 9% above. Is it because Brian rounds his numbers? Also, if Kris sold 5000 last week (per last weeks thread), doesn’t that equate to a 17% increase?

    Really thought Kris would get a higher bounce than that from the Idol premier. I thought he had a shot of selling more than Adam this week because of it. Hopefully his CD sales will pick up once more songs from it come out.

    I heard Adam played LLWD on his DJ stint last night. :-)

  26. Anybody checking out the iTunes pop bars this morning will be amazed. Taylor Swift is kicking major butt with that song that she released yesterday. Ke$ha moved almost 250K of “TikTok” last week and the pop bars are less than half what they are for “Today Was a Fairytale”. Poor Beiber, he’s going to have awesome numbers too (easily outpacing “TikTok”), but the news is all going to be about the Swifter cleaning up again.

    Isn’t the popularity bar calculated based on the past 2-3 days of sale though? Since Taylor’s song was just released and massively downloaded since yesterday, it’ll make sense that her bar is much bigger than the others. I don’t think it indicates that Taylor is going to sell twice of Ke$ha’s numbers next week.

    But then again, I don’t work for iTunes so I could be completely wrong :P

  27. The only AI reporter I think is biased towards Kris is Jim C because I think they are actually real friends now. Mansfield for Kris…nah I don’t see it

  28. Is there a mistake on Kris’s album sales? It says he sold 6,000. Last week, he sold 5,000. Did he only get a 1,000 bump from Idol Premiere? That can’t be right.

    These are rounded numbers. Kris sold 5,430 the week before, I don’t know what the real numbers are for this week.

  29. HDD numbers aren’t official. Plus Brian rounds his numbers. The official Billboard/Soundscan numbers sometimes leak but they’re not that easy to get. My problem with Brian is that he doesn’t give the chart ranking.

  30. Besides sales, there is the issue of visibility. Getting played on as many stations as possible, especially Pop stations, will make people aware of who Kris is and his music, which will translate to album sales, as well as increase Kris’ popularity, which is something that he needs. There are still top 40 stations in very large markets that aren’t playing this song, that needs to change.

    I think Top 40 is starting to come around regarding Kris. He was added to 5 Top 40 stations for the week, including the No. 11 market in Detroit. The top 40 station in my area plays LLWD–not a surprise since they have OHP and it’s played the song during recent weekends. With HAC stations at near 100% rotation capacity for LLWD, the song will likely spill over into more Top 40 stations soon.

  31. Really thought Kris would get a higher bounce than that from the Idol premier. I thought he had a shot of selling more than Adam this week because of it. Hopefully his CD sales will pick up once more songs from it come out.

    Well, I didn’t expect him to outsell Adam this week, but to just get a higher % increase. Last year, David C got a 58% increase and David A got a 5% increase (or something like that) – so I expected similar %s this year, but the total units sold, even in that case, would have still put Adam above Kris.

    I heard Adam played LLWD on his DJ stint last night.

    Yes! I heard it too – loved it! Adam talked gushingly about Kris in his intro too (great friend, great song, etc.)

  32. It’s not a big surprise that Kris sales increased due to Idol premier. Last season David Cook sales increased in 58% after American Idol premier.

  33. Nice sales bumps for Kris and the other idols. It’s nice that LLWD keeps chugging along… hopefully the album sales follow suit soon.

  34. Mary102, I wouldn’t consider that Kris was all that heavily featured last week. They showed his winning moment, which included AL on screen, too; and they had a commercial with him, which I still have yet to see because we skipped all the commercials, as many others do. I don’t recall anything else other than his face on the wall behind contestants, along with those of prior winners. It’s nice promo, but not all that extensive.

  35. Without numbers, what does his spin on things lead you to believe?

    But, he did list all of the numbers, which more people pay attention to.

    Why does FYE have an increase of 18% on HDD but only 9% above. Is it because Brian rounds his numbers?

    Last week, HDD underestimated the amount that Adam would sell, and for some reason, when they post how much a song will increase or decrease in sales, they use their guesses instead of the actual amount that the song sold. Remember HDD is only guessing, and sometimes their guesses are right on the money, and sometimes they aren’t.

  36. Sorry, my % on Kris isn’t correct in the last post. So, it looks like Brian used actual units sold for his % increases but used rounding numbers for posting. Weird as it certainly gives off the wrong impression. If you use the rounded numbers he posts, Kris would have a larger % than 13%. If he uses actual units sold for his increases, you’d think he’d just post the actual number sold for consistency sake.

  37. Brian is probably not allowed to post actual numbers. People pay hundreds of dollars for access to the actual figures.

  38. but the total units sold, even in that case, would have still put Adam above Kris.

    Of course the total units sold would have still put Adam’s numbers above Kris’. Considering that Adam’s numbers last week were already more than twice as much as Kris’, Kris would have had to received more than a 50% increase to top Adam’s numbers from last week.

    People do know that the sales of the two albums and the two singles aren’t related?

  39. Lorismile, HDD numbers are preliminary, and the % change is from the prior week’s HDD estimate, not from the prior week’s Soundscan or Billboard numbers. The Soundscan numbers can be up or down from the HDD estimate, and they compare % change from prior Soundscan numbers, not from HDD. The % changes can be very different.

  40. Isn’t the popularity bar calculated based on the past 2-3 days of sale though? Since Taylor’s song was just released and massively downloaded since yesterday, it’ll make sense that her bar is much bigger than the others. I don’t think it indicates that Taylor is going to sell twice of Ke$ha’s numbers next week.

    You are correct. iTunes pop bars are based on 2-3 days worth of sales. It’s just that given Taylor’s sales record, I’m betting that she’ll maintain some decent momentum throughout the week. Plus, it’s saying that Taylor sold twice as many singles in one day as Ke$ha sold in two to three. She might not end up the week at 500K, but she’s going to throw down some pretty stunning numbers.

  41. Mary102, I wouldn’t consider that Kris was all that heavily featured last week. They showed his winning moment, which included AL on screen, too; and they had a commercial with him, which I still have yet to see because we skipped all the commercials, as many others do. I don’t recall anything else other than his face on the wall behind contestants, along with those of prior winners. It’s nice promo, but not all that extensive.

    True – they didn’t have any specific “Kris segment” or anything. I’m not sure whether they gave David Cook more or less face time last year. I remember they gave Cook a nice segment when they did the KC auditions, and kept bringing up Cook as a result of that.

    I’m thinking of Kris’s face in the background, but that really isn’t THAT substantial (in fact, some friends who watched with me didn’t even notice it). Maybe I expected it would send off some subliminal message: “Remember Kris! Buy the album!” (which I guess it did – lol)

  42. Nice numbers all around for both Kris and Adam.

    I don’t know what “streaming” means – is this people playing the song on their computers? This is tracked?

    If Kris is able to continue to sell LLWD at this pace, the song could be platinum in 5-6 weeks, but I think that would be hard to do.

  43. Kris got the same amount of pimping most winners get every Idol premiere with the bonus of the Ford commercial. Last year David got a little montage plus his promo commercial featuring Light On aired during the show. I mean Archie got a 5% increase and he wasnt mentioned or seen. Usually Idol starting and being on is enough to cause a big increase. IIRC Daughtry got a double digit increase too the week the season 6 premiere happened.

  44. I heard Adam played LLWD on his DJ stint last night.

    He did! And he gave an adorbs intro to it too, very sweet, it made me smile.

  45. what were “already gone’s sales? anyone?

    They aren’t available yet. We’ll need to wait until Brian posts numbers. “Already Gone” has fallen out of the top 50 and we only get leaks for the top 50, songs debuting in the top 200 or songs with big gains in the top 200.

  46. Babybelle32, I’d call the HDD numbers more educated estimates than guesses. They do use some actual data to arrive at their numbers, it is just not complete. The final real numbers can vary a lot, but HDD is usually very much in the ballpark.

  47. It doesn’t look like anyone from S8 got much of a bump from the Idol premiere. I can’t compare Kris to Daughtry or Cook. Daughtry had the #1 album and the #1 single in the country. Cook already had a platinum single and probably close to a platinum album by the time the new season began. Kris is just incredibly lucky that LLWD is a hit because otherwise they’d have his picture behind a potted plant. ;)

  48. If he uses actual units sold for his increases, you’d think he’d just post the actual number sold for consistency sake.

    His sources won’t allow him to post the real numbers.

  49. I didn’t watch Taylor’s season. Did they really put him behind a plant?

    Great numbers for Kris for me!

  50. I don’t know what “streaming” means – is this people playing the song on their computers? This is tracked?

    I don’t know if the sources have changed, but at one point the number only included AOL Music and Yahoo Music. These numbers are also taken into account to figure out the Billboard 100.

  51. Yes, they put Taylor’s picture behind a plant. Simon also told the auditioners to park their gum on it. I’m not kidding. And according to Pulse, Jason Castro’s CD was #94 on the chart. So Kris’ is somewhere north of that.

  52. Great numbers for Kris and other idols.
    It looks very good for LLWD to go platinium and hope the album sales will pick up at some points. That will be interesting to see

  53. I’m sorry, but the idea that Mansfield is biased against Adam or towards Kris is just laughable.

    I doubted it at first too. But now it seems so obvious, to me, it borders on him just coming off as ridiculous!

  54. Yes, they put Taylor’s picture behind a plant. Simon also told the auditioners to park their gum on it. I’m not kidding.

    This is so gross. I’m happy he quits after this year. Sometimes he called some contestants obnoxious, hmm he should look at his own backyard

  55. These numbers are also taken into account to figure out the Billboard 100.

    Yep. The formula for Hot 100 is as follows:

    55% Airplay
    40% Sales
    5% Streaming

  56. I doubted it at first too. But now it seems so obvious, to me, it borders on him just coming off as ridiculous!

    All the fan groups seem to think that Brian is biased against their favourite. Must mean he’s being pretty even-handed.

  57. Yes, they put Taylor’s picture behind a plant. Simon also told the auditioners to park their gum on it.

    That is so wrong.

    So Billboard released today or tomorrow?

  58. I thought Mansfield was pro Danny. I couldn’t go to his site til Danny’s auto play was off the front page..lol

  59. I’d use the word “ridiculous” too but not to describe Brian. LOL at the Danny music playing on his site.

    Idol are like the parents that only love you if you are a success. They’re very brutal to the ones perceived as “flops.” They like to erase them from the history books if possible. Fun activity: looking for any sign of Taylor Hicks on S9 of Idol Good luck.

  60. So Billboard released today or tomorrow?

    Billboard releases tomorrow, but we usually get leaks today (especially of the Hot 100).

  61. I wouldn’t consider that Kris was all that heavily featured last week. They showed his winning moment, which included AL on screen, too; and they had a commercial with him, which I still have yet to see because we skipped all the commercials, as many others do. I don’t recall anything else other than his face on the wall behind contestants, along with those of prior winners

    They also played one of his album’s songs as background music during one segment. Don’t know which one because I don’t have the album, but I’m sure someone here does. IMO, I think having your picture right behind every single auditioner is pretty good promo. It should have reminded a lot more than 6000 people about last year’s winner.
    I am quite surprised his album didn’t sell way more that it did last. Really surprised!

  62. Adam increased his week-to-week sales of For Your Entertainment by slightly more than 1,000, while sales of Kris Allen’s debut were up 13 percent.

    He’s comparing both of them with different measures; I really don’t know what message he’s trying to deliver with it.

    He could said Adam increased in 9% while Kris increased in 13% or he could said both of them sold slightly more than 1000.. (Kris numbers for last week were 5k and now 6k)

    Today I officially lost any interest on what this “expert” could write or say about any idol.

  63. Notice, though, that Brian had AL’s picture on his website, when AL didn’t have any more notable achievements than anyone else; maybe even less than some. I’d say that’s some compensation. Carrie still is ruling.

  64. That’s a nice increase for Kris in terms of album sales and he’s continuing to kick ass in singles sales, which is great! Thank you AI bounce. Plantinum sooner than later is exxxcellent.

    And congrats to Carrie for that platinum, don’t like her music, but she is a force.

    And of course happy to see Adam got a sales boost from AI as well last week and will get some bounce for this week due to Oprah.

  65. Another great sales week for LLWD. That song just keeps on chugging. Its sales really are outpacing the sales of those around it on the pop chart which shows how much people like the song. Some songs that are higher, like Orianthi’s, are selling miserably, despite having Top 10 pop airplay.

    True. LLWD sales have always outpaced it’s amount of airplay, which is why I don’t understand how PDs can justify not playing/adding the song. It just makes no sense.

    I’m trying to understand these comments. Since LLWD charts a lot higher on the HAC airplay charts than the pop charts, isn’t it logical that a majority of those sales come from HAC listeners? Why would sales to HAC listeners justify playing/adding the song on pop stations? Maybe some (obviously not all) PD’s view LLWD as more of a HAC song.

  66. I think seeing Kris picture on AI well help CD sales and his single sales. It was nice of Brian Mansfield to put Adam’s picture in his article about sales this week. I agree though that sometimes he does seem biased in his articles against certain idols.

  67. Is there a mistake on Kris’s album sales? It says he sold 6,000. Last week, he sold 5,000. Did he only get a 1,000 bump from Idol Premiere? That can’t be right.

    Well, I would bet that he sold at least 2000 or so because of the Idol bump. Because without the Idol bump, the Season 8 Idols’ album sales most likely would have continued a mild decline this week….. so if you add in the numbers it took to offset the decline and then the 1000 that he’s gone up, he maybe sold 2000 or so. That seems reasonable as a selling percentage when the show you’ve appeared on wasn’t precisely focused on you — and when you didn’t actually even perform on it.

    When David C appeared on Carrie’s Christmas show a month or so ago, it looked as if he probably sold around 3000 albums specifically because of the appearance (judging by far his total for the next week rose over what he’d been averaging for weeks and weeks.) That’s a somewhat bigger boost in the number-of-albums-you-sold over number-of-people-who-watched-the-show ratio. But not a great big difference. And he actually performed and was great.

    If 10 million people watch a show that you’re on or that jogs their memory about you, I think you’re probably doing well if about 2000 — or 1 in every 5000 of them — buys your album quickly because of the show, just based on how these bumps have looked over time. And that’s what Kris got. When he goes back on Idol and actually performs, his bump will certainly be quite a bit bigger, because then he’ll *be* performing, and he’ll be performing specifically to the Idol audience, who are the ones most likely to buy his music, because of their previous knowledge of him, I would think.

  68. They also played one of his album’s songs as background music during one segment. Don’t know which one because I don’t have the album, but I’m sure someone here does.

    Yep, people who already own the album know what song that was. Everybody else probably didn’t even realize it was Kris singing (unless they read an Idol blog and then they have probably already made their buying decisions). Tough to move units on the back of a 20 second clip when nobody has ever heard the song before and the title/singer aren’t given. They played one of Allison’s songs too, but that didn’t prevent her from probably falling out of the top 200.

    Sure, if you are featured on Grey’s where they basically make a movie video for your song, it can help. But this is just background noise. I don’t think any of the songs featured in those mini-montages had a big impact on the charts this week (unless they were already having one).

  69. All the fan groups seem to think that Brian is biased against their favourite. Must mean he’s being pretty even-handed.

    So true. At the end of the day, I really appreciate all the information that Brian Mansfield manages to get out there for Idol fans. (And his occasional postings here on MJs.) As much as people scream about his (nonexistent) biases, what would people do if Brian stopped giving out numbers alltogether?

  70. The ones boycotting Brian should stop looking at the numbers here because he’s the dealer (so to speak).

    Woo hoo. Kris and Adam each sold 1,000 more albums due to the return of Idol. That’s hardly worth making a big deal about any way you slice it. ;)

  71. He’s comparing both of them with different measures; I really don’t know what message he’s trying to deliver with it.

    Exactly. It’s odd, because it’s seems so obvious that you should compare % to % or raw number to raw number. If it’s biased, it’s done poorly LOL, because I totally can’t figure out which way he’s leaning. Whether 1000 is better or worse than 13% seems to be pretty much in the eye of the beholder.

    But maybe that’s the point, maybe he’s trying to avoid a direct comparison since he seems to be alternately beaten up by each side in the fandom horse race.

  72. LOL my daughter asked last night if they were rotating the audition backdrop pics to feature the winners in order. I told her to thrn expect them to skip right to Carrie for the next show. Taylor winning is a bad memory for them. I’m still shocked he was included at the AI Experience/Disney event with all the winners.

  73. As much as people scream about his (nonexistent) biases, what would people do if Brian stopped giving out numbers alltogether?

    So true. It’s nice to have someone who can give us these numbers. Though following them has become something of an addiction for me. Billboard numbers are crack, y’all! LOL!

  74. I did the Disney Experience a few months ago and don’t remember Taylor being in it at all. I remembered Jordin had a large part.

  75. Taylor winning is a bad memory for them. I’m still shocked he was included at the AI Experience/Disney event with all the winners.

    He was supposed to be in the Goofy suit, but the Teamsters filed a grievance. They didn’t want to be associated with him either. Since Taylor had already purchased a valid park ticket and wasn’t behaving disruptively, nobody could think of a legal way of evicting him from the park. So, he ended up in some of the pictures by accident. Disney did have him sweep up after the Main Street horses after the event to make up for allowing him to be there. Taylor didn’t mind. Anything is tolerable after you’ve had to stare into the eyes of Clive in a blue-velour track suit. Plus, it’s a big step up from the way 19M usually treats him.

    ;-)

  76. All the fan groups seem to think that Brian is biased against their favourite. Must mean he’s being pretty even-handed.

    Nope Don’t agree! I have not seen Kris or Danny fans feeling that he was biased against their favorite. He just skews the way he reports the facts that makes it look like it is skewed one direction or the other.

  77. and they had a commercial with him, which I still have yet to see because we skipped all the commercials, as many others do.

    They showed his commercial with a song of his two days in a row, as well as playing another song of his for part of the show. The song in commerical AWM saw an increase on iTunes, so clearly some people were watching those commericals. And his

    As for Brian Mansfield? After his little editorial comment during “smellygate,” I was pretty much whatevahs from then on. Not that I really care, I’m not a butthurt Adam fan. He provides numbers and that’s all I care about. Though I do understand that Ken was better at it, yes?

  78. Spotting Taylor on Idol is like playing Where’s Waldo.

    Actually I’m waiting for them to bring up an Idol’s name in the auditions.
    That gives you an idea of the pecking order as well. :)

  79. Pop stations play what is popular. So songs that are already hit on another format and have sold a lot, have a good chance at doing something on pop. See: Lady Antebellum, Train, Young Money.

  80. He could said Adam increased in 9% while Kris increased in 13% or he could said both of them sold slightly more than 1000.. (Kris numbers for last week were 5k and now 6k)

    If he had said that (9% vs 13%), there will still be lots of fans complaining about his bias. I can already hear the arguments for that (absolute numbers are more important than %! Kris has a lower starting point anyway!).

    Frankly, I think he wrote it that way to make both their sales look better. Adam’s album increasing by 1000 copies sounds better than a less than 10% increase (to me, at least). Kris’s increase is probably only few hundred copies (last week 5430, this week ~6k), so the 13% sounds better as well.

    Prior to Adam fans claiming that Brian is biased against Adam, I’ve heard some Kris fans said the same thing too. So, basically, I think Kirsten is right. He’s even-handed and just reporting whatever comes to his mind :P

  81. He was supposed to be in the Goofy suit, but the Teamsters filed a grievance. They didn’t want to be associated with him either. Since Taylor had already purchased a valid park ticket and wasn’t behaving disruptively, nobody could think of a legal way of evicting him from the park. So, he ended up in some of the pictures by accident. Disney did have him sweep up after the Main Street horses after the event to make up for allowing him to be there. Taylor didn’t mind. Anything is tolerable after you’ve had to stare into the eyes of Clive in a blue-velour track suit.

    LMFAO! Very funny, Kirsten!

  82. He was supposed to be in the Goofy suit, but the Teamsters filed a grievance. They didn’t want to be associated with him either. Since Taylor had already purchased a valid park ticket and wasn’t behaving disruptively, nobody could think of a legal way of evicting him from the park. So, he ended up in some of the pictures by accident. Disney did have him sweep up after the Main Street horses after the event to make up for allowing him to be there. Taylor didn’t mind. Anything is tolerable after you’ve had to stare into the eyes of Clive in a blue-velour track suit.

    LMAO. I’m surprised he was asked to sweep the Main Street instead of some hidden corner of the park.

  83. Trina

    LOL my daughter asked last night if they were rotating the audition backdrop pics to feature the winners in order. I told her to thrn expect them to skip right to Carrie for the next show. Taylor winning is a bad memory for them. I’m still shocked he was included at the AI Experience/Disney event with all the winners.

    LOL that you forgot Jordin. Don’t feel bad, I do too.

  84. I thought the guards had a shoot to kill order if Taylor was seen anywhere near an Idol related venue?

  85. Purely hypothetical question… just trying to make sure I understand how this all works.

    With a 2nd/3rd successful single, hopefully Kris’s album sales will jump. From what I understand, single sales numbers get reduced and converted to album sales if a user takes advantage of the ‘complete this album’ feature. So, theoretically, is it possible for a single to lose it’s sales certification if a huge number of those digital downloads get converted to album sales?

    I don’t really expect this to happen, I’m just curious if it is technically possible.

  86. While Brian could have used the same measurement for Adam and Kris, again, I see no bias there. Both the headline and the article lead with Adam…not Kris. And all he did was state the facts. He didn’t even elaborate on them. And he certainly didn’t gush about anyone. If Danny starts selling well or moves way up the charts, then maybe we will see some bias in Brian’s articles. Personally, I think he’s simply trying to be positive/encouraging towards all the Idols, as long as the numbers allow him to be that.

    Anyway, nice numbers for most of the Idols this week. Good to see all the positive jumps in sales. I was hoping for a bigger increase in Kris’ album sales coming off Idol premiere week. I don’t know if him being visible on the wall makes a big difference (although it’s certainly better than being hid behind a plant) — after the first couple of times seeing it, will people even still notice the picture? And I’m not sure they ever mentioned his name, did they? And they certainly didn’t mention either his or Allison’s name when they used their songs as background music, so who knows how many viewers would have recognized the music as them — unless they already knew the songs? Still, it’s not like AI ignored him, so I was really hoping for a bump a lot closer to what David Cook got last season. Oh well…

    Very impressed by the HUGE bump WWFM and Adam’s album has gotten on iTunes. It’ll be interesting to see if once the initial boost wears off if these can stay high on the chart or whether they slip back. I suspect the album will slide back while WWFM remains pretty steady. That’s been the case in the past for both Adam and Kris coming off any major appearance. And the MV should really help WWFM.

    oops – congrats to Carrie for going platinum!

  87. Okay, I must be healing because JPfan and Kirsten made me laugh about my favorite Taylor Hicks! Now I am a big Adam fan….maybe I won’t have too much healing to do after his big run! Thanks gals….it feels good to laugh out loud!

  88. They also played one of his album’s songs as background music during one segment.

    If people don’t have the album, or haven’t heard the songs, how would they know that it was Kris singing?

    I’m pretty sure that Kris album and single sales weren’t just do from an AI boost, I’m sure some were, but it seems to me that we already knew that Kris’ AI fan support was small, so any boost would also be small. Kris’ success, just like everyone else’s, will be because he reached out beyond the AI fan base. While I’m sure that everyone would have liked to see him put up the usual post AI numbers, it’s much more important that he gets on the path to letting those in the mainstream know who he is.

  89. I thought the guards had a shoot to kill order if Taylor was seen anywhere near an Idol related venue?

    They do. But sadly, all the regular guns at Disney were replaced with ones from the Roger Rabbit exhibit, so Taylor was able to escape the clutches of security by escaping through cartoon holes.

  90. Kris Allen’s singles will sell his CD. Owl City showed an increase in CD sales after Fireflies took off on radio. That is just one example. Bottom line — singles sell CDs. (Susan Boyle, an exception.)

    LLWD is doing its job, working the trenches. Whether people know Kris Allen as American Idol winner or new artist, it doesn’t matter, as long as, his music gets noticed and then eventually sells. LLWD is getting Kris noticed. I think the AI bump for Kris was pretty minimal, as LLWD was selling quite nicely from airplay alone. It didn’t hurt being in the TOP 20 on I-tunes for weeks now, in plain sight with the heavy hitters. I’m optimistic for future single success, which will lead to CD success.

    I prefer Kris Allen, new artist, a hell of a lot better than Kris Allen, American Idol winner. Just my bias there. I’ve read on twitter a lot of guys guiltily admitting they love Kris Allen’s music. That “guilt” definitely due to the IDOL stigma. Not cool.

    For some reason while listening to Bring It Back, I very clearly saw this song as a top 40/hac hit down the line. One of many.

  91. With a 2nd/3rd successful single, hopefully Kris’s album sales will jump. From what I understand, single sales numbers get reduced and converted to album sales if a user takes advantage of the ‘complete this album’ feature. So, theoretically, is it possible for a single to lose it’s sales certification if a huge number of those digital downloads get converted to album sales?

    As of last week, Kris had only sold around 30,000 digital albums, that’s a huge difference in comparison to the 600,000 singles he’s sold. I think Adam’s digital album sales were only around 13% of his total sales, so I doubt that people completing their albums are going to have a huge effect on their numbers.

  92. But Jordin was seen last night..not as prominent as David but there wasnt a pot in front of her and she wasnt almost out in the hall lol

    I did the Disney Experience a few months ago and don’t remember Taylor being in it at all. I remembered Jordin had a large part.

    I’m referring to the big grand opening that happened last February. All the winners were on stage together for the first time. Here’s the group pic

  93. If TPTB had been thinking, they could have given Taylor Snow White’s poisoned apple. He keels over and has to be rushed to the ER for food poisoning. The pictures and parade go on as planned without him.

  94. He provides numbers and that’s all I care about. Though I do understand that Ken was better at it, yes?

    Ken would provide more numbers for albums off the charts, down to stuff selling 100 copies a week. Ken was accused of having biases, too, but I actually read the blog regularly back when he ran it. Brian is good for numbers but not much else IMO, especially after that bizarre review thing for Kris’s album that kept bringing up which songs were Katy’s favorites (still not sure how he knew or why it mattered).

    Last year, there was a commercial with Cook for Idol that used “Light On” in the promos. Is the same sort of thing planned for Kris and LLWD? Something like that running during the NFC championship game would really boost sales.

  95. Not really sales related, but does anyone know why Adam is suddenly all over the vh1.com home page? All of a sudden he is listed in their most popular artists lists and all three of his videos are listed in top videos list (along with LLWD)…Payback for CCA appearance? Lots of video hits? Beginning of AI? RCA/19 push? Its nice to see, but just weird that it happened out of the blue and particularly since 2 of the videos are not on the top 20 countdown list and are rarely, if ever, played on vh1.

  96. LLWD hasn’t been played on AI that I have seen.

    VH1-
    Adam fans are voting non-stop for his videos I believe.

  97. A little prediction about next weeks sales from Billboard:

    “As for the rest of the top 10 this week, Susan Boyle’s “I Dreamed a Dream” holds at No. 2 with 77,000 (down 18%), marking its eighth straight week within the top two slots. There’s a chance the album could return to the No. 1 position next week, as it’ll probably benefit from the singer’s sit-down interview and performance on yesterday’s “The Oprah Winfrey Show” (Jan. 19).”

  98. Yep. The formula for Hot 100 is as follows:

    55% Airplay
    40% Sales
    5% Streaming

    Kirsten that’s not correct. Think about where Taylor Swift’s new one is going to debut on the Hot 100 – probably top 10. It’s going to be about 100% because of sales because the song’s not going to get a lot of airplay. Carrie’s Cowboy Casanova peaked at #11 the week that the download came out – that was NOT based on any 55/40/5 formula. The 55/40/5 thing is the average that people use to estimate but it’s not how it’s calculated and that guideline can be very off depending on your song, plus it’s outdated.

    The way the Hot 100 is calculated is based on points. Each song gets 1 point for every 10,000 audience impressions it gets. Each song also gets a point for every 10 downloads it sell and a point for every 50,000 (I think that’s the number) streams. Add all those points together and then rank the songs and you have your Hot 100.

    In this link Billboard says that it expected streaming to initially account for 5% of the chart’s total points. But that’s not the same thing as saying streaming is going to be 5% for everybody. It’ll be more for some, less for others. That figure is probably outdated anyway.

    If you read the 1st comment from this blog it quotes Geoff Mayfield from Billboard magazine about the points formula. That part wasn’t online but it was in the magazine.

    http://idolator.com/284712/billboard-hot-100-dips-its-toe-into-the-streams

    Starting next week, Billboard will divide a song’s digital track and retail single sales by 10 on the Hot 100 rather than five….Even with that adjustment, one digital sale on the Hot 100 will carry the weight of 1,000 radio listeners.

  99. I prefer Kris Allen, new artist, a hell of a lot better than Kris Allen, American Idol winner. Just my bias there. I’ve read on twitter a lot of guys guiltily admitting they love Kris Allen’s music. That “guilt” definitely due to the IDOL stigma. Not cool.

    I like the idea of Kris Allen, new artist, not so much because of the idol stigma, but because I like the idea of Kris being interviewed because of his music, or getting more opportunities and promotional events, on the basis of having a hit song or songs, and not because he was on AI.

    I guess some of it is the stigma, but I think more people will be willing to check out his music and take him seriously if he’s presented as Kris Allen, new artist. He had a lot of interviews last week, but most of them were a waste, since neither he nor the interviewers took the time to promote his single or album. So while he had a lot of face time, it was easy to see how that wouldn’t pay off very well.

  100. on iTunes (8:30 am Pacific time)

    #21 WWFM
    #36/#41 FYE (album)

    #19 LLWD
    #89 Kris Allen

    #840/#907 Just Like You

    Still waiting for Jive to do something to help Allison. Don’t know if her hosting Disney Radio is gonna help, since her music isn’t really Disney Radio style

    Little surprised Danny’s single doesn’t seem to be selling well, since he is doing pretty well on the country chart.

  101. So proud of Kris. Does anyone know if album sales in the Phillipines are included in album sale counts here? I’m thinking he should be seeing a boost after his concerts there.

  102. so what are more accurate?? i dont think billboard numbers have come out yet, but isnt billboard what everyone goes by?? so their sales might actually be higher than what soundscan says??? (or lower for that matter)

  103. Brian is good for numbers but not much else IMO, especially after that bizarre review thing for Kris’s album that kept bringing up which songs were Katy’s favorites (still not sure how he knew or why it mattered).

    Oy that review. Agreed that was random and more than a little lame and also agreed, why the hell would I care about Katy’s feelings about songs? So weird.

    LLWD hasn’t been played yet, but there might be a last promo to show, so who knows if they will show that then? But even having AWM for the commercials increased it’s sales, and LLWD sales did increase when AI was being shown, so hey, people are getting that they can buy Kris’s single of LLWD.

    And as has been ennumerated, Kris is not getting the Taylor treatment in any way shape or form, so the show is doing right by him and it’s showing in his sales. Which he should see a really nice increase when the show has him on to sing LLWD. So that will be cool as well.

  104. Woo hoo. Kris and Adam each sold 1,000 more albums due to the return of Idol. That’s hardly worth making a big deal about any way you slice it. ;)

    I wouldn’t say that. First of all, I would think their sales would both most likely have *declined* this past week in the post-Christmas doldrums, had they not gotten a bit of a bump from Idol’s beginning, so it’s more like they each sold 2000 more albums or so than they would otherwise have, as a direct result of the show.

    And considering how few people actually buy albums in any case these days, it seems to me that if people watch a show that merely *reminds* them of you — and on which you’re not featured — and then 1 or 2 of every 10,000 of those viewers (or thereabouts) quickly buys your album as a result, that’s actually a pretty decent ratio. After all, neither actually *performed* on the show.

  105. jpfan
    01/20/2010 at 10:34 am
    It doesn’t look like anyone from S8 got much of a bump from the Idol premiere. I can’t compare Kris to Daughtry or Cook. Daughtry had the #1 album and the #1 single in the country. Cook already had a platinum single and probably close to a platinum album by the time the new season began.

    Don’t really understand your logic here. Because Kris’s starting raw numbers were a lot lower that David C.’s, it actually would have taken much fewer albums sold to receive a nice percentage increase.

    Kris’s Soundscan numbers for last week were 5,430 albums sold.
    TW with 13% increase that jumps to 6,136, or an increase of 706 albums.
    Assume a 58% increase like DC had, that number would have jumped to 8,579, or an increase of 3,149 albums. In other words, all Kris needed to do to match DC’s increase of 58% was sell another 2,443 albums.

    OTOH, when David got his +58% bump last year, he went from 19,000 to 31,000 albums, or an increase of 12,000 albums.

    Now I understand that we’re not only talking about the increase in albums sold but also the fact that the numbers didn’t erode like they did for others on the charts. Still, with the millions of people that watch AI, that saw the commercial and heard the music, and presumably remember the guy they voted for to win the show, I’m really amazed by these low numbers, especially with LLWD selling well and so present on the radio.

  106. Nope Don’t agree! I have not seen Kris or Danny fans feeling that he was biased against their favorite.

    You obviously don’t read idol chatter a lot.

  107. Laury
    01/20/2010 at 10:54 am
    Adam increased his week-to-week sales of For Your Entertainment by slightly more than 1,000, while sales of Kris Allen’s debut were up 13 percent.

    He’s comparing both of them with different measures; I really don’t know what message he’s trying to deliver with it.

    He could said Adam increased in 9% while Kris increased in 13% or he could said both of them sold slightly more than 1000.. (Kris numbers for last week were 5k and now 6k)

    Today I officially lost any interest on what this “expert” could write or say about any idol.

    ITA, he should’ve used the same criteria (% or #).
    On the other hand, nice news all around, singles are selling, album sales in the positive, I hear Adam and Kris on z-100 all the time, so it is all good :)

  108. Little surprised Danny’s single doesn’t seem to be selling well, since he is doing pretty well on the country chart.

    Well, Carrie and Taylor aside, as I understand it, Country music traditionally doesn’t do well with digital singles and is more of an album and bricks and mortar type genre. I mean, that was my understanding.

    Oh and thanks girlygirl for those update iTunes numbers. Great to see Kris holding pretty steady from last week’s increase to an iTunes high of 16 that happened after the second AI show (IIRC) to 19 now. Nice. Perhaps he’ll get another good single sales next week as well? And maybe with his album as well? *fingers crossed*

  109. I really like the Ford ad with Kris. Nice visual showing how simple it is to use and nice that we get to see the song title and hear it too. Hope it gets played every Idol show this season.

    But speaking of Idols and commercials and since Taylor Hicks is getting mentioned a lot today……..remember season 5 when Taylor Hicks had a Ford commercial that was used prominently to the point where people were complaining they were sick of hearing it. Was it the coronation song they used? Apparently AI didn’t have anything to do with Ford’s decision to use Taylor so much since I really do think they didn’t and still don’t like him.

  110. Does anyone know of a way to see all the percentage increases due to the Idol premiere every year?

  111. Yep, people who already own the album know what song that was. Everybody else probably didn’t even realize it was Kris singing (unless they read an Idol blog and then they have probably already made their buying decisions). Tough to move units on the back of a 20 second clip when nobody has ever heard the song before and the title/singer aren’t given. They played one of Allison’s songs too, but that didn’t prevent her from probably falling out of the top 200.

    You know, so true, I’ve heard Kris album a few times, my daughter is a big fan of his, and I didn’t realize it was him untill she pointed it out. And we did’t even notice Alison. IMO, if they wanted to promote them, they should in a 20sec clip, maybe they should of used their singles, ppl are more familiar with them and would be able to recognize, but then I don’t know if those song would fit the situation.

  112. Additional numbers from Idol Chatter:

    Carrie Underwood, Carnival Ride (3,000, +4 percent, 3.051 million)
    Soundtrack, Hannah Montana 3 (3,000, -11 percent, 564,000)
    Allison Iraheta, Just Like You (2,000, -6 percent, 79,000)
    Kellie Pickler, Kellie Pickler (2,000, +1 percent, 376,000)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Country (less than 1,000, +2 percent, 407,000)

  113. Now I understand that we’re not only talking about the increase in albums sold but also the fact that the numbers didn’t erode like they did for others on the charts. Still, with the millions of people that watch AI, that saw the commercial and heard the music, and presumably remember the guy they voted for to win the show, I’m really amazed by these low numbers, especially with LLWD selling well and so present on the radio.

    Yeah, but the thing is — We already know that, for whatever reason, Idol fans aren’t having the level of positive gotta-buy-it feeling for Kris and Adam that they had for David C. I don’t know why we think that would change just because the Idol season started.

    Seems to me that, given the much stronger sales that David had seemed to have all along among the Idol fanbase, Kris’s getting a much smaller bump than DC did from Idol beginning would just be expected. I don’t know why Idol fans would suddenly be a lot more willing to shell out bucks for Kris’s album now than they were in November and December. David’s just been a stronger seller, especially of albums, all along, period, and particularly perhaps, among Idol fans.

    Seems to me that, given how slow Kris’s sales have been from the beginning among the Idol fanbase, it’s a positive sign for him that his appearance moved a couple of thousand people to buy his album at all. …. At least they’re not completely *losing* interest — which *could* happen!

    If he *had* managed a bump of the level of DC’s — Well, I would put that in the realm of “miracle,” given the lower sales he’s had up to now. So getting *some* bump still seems positive, to me.

  114. wwfm is now at 19 on itunes (could be higher/lower, my itunes store tends to update slowly). thank you oprah.

  115. Does anyone know if album sales in the Phillipines are included in album sale counts here?

    No, the numbers are only for domestic sales.

    Someone asked what is more accurate, all of these numbers, including the ones from Billboard, are based on numbers collected from Soundscan. Brian just rounds the numbers, but they are all accurate.

  116. wwfm is now at 19 on itunes (could be higher/lower, my itunes store tends to update slowly). thank you oprah.

    Actually it’s #18! So happy it finally cracked the Top 20! :D

    windmills, thanks for the explanation of how Hot 100 rankings are determined. Interesting!

  117. Adam just went past Kris on the iTunes singles chart — WWFM is at #18, LLWD is at #21

  118. You know, so true, I’ve heard Kris album a few times, my daughter is a big fan of his, and I didn’t realize it was him untill she pointed it out. And we did’t even notice Alison. IMO, if they wanted to promote them, they should in a 20sec clip, maybe they should of used their singles, ppl are more familiar with them and would be able to recognize, but then I don’t know if those song would fit the situation.

    I thought they should have printed their names as well as the name of the song on the screen as the song was playing, that would have made more sense to me, if their purpose was to let people know that these songs were by idol alums. The same thing goes for Carrie’s “So Small,” especiallysince it is not as well known as some of her other songs.

  119. Adam just went past Kris on the iTunes singles chart — WWFM is at #18, LLWD is at #21

    That is amazing…Thank You Oprah!!! :)

    It looks like he is up to #13 with WWFM on iTunes Pop chart.

  120. Will the download numbers be out this week for FYE the single or if it doesn’t sell enough, will it not be included in the numbers?

  121. Adam just went past Kris on the iTunes singles chart — WWFM is at #18, LLWD is at #21

    Behold the power of Oprah. Thank goodness she’s using her powers for good. Well good for this Adam fan.

  122. ===============
    But speaking of Idols and commercials and since Taylor Hicks is getting mentioned a lot today……..remember season 5 when Taylor Hicks had a Ford commercial that was used prominently to the point where people were complaining they were sick of hearing it. Was it the coronation song they used? ================

    Taylor sang a jingle written for the Ford commercial and they did overplay it until everyone was sick of hearing it and seeing him. He is a tremendous talent and was extremely popular coming off the show but he was woefully mishandled. No advance single? No push to radio? Singing Christmas carols on primetime to promote his new album? Give me a break. He’s still got the goods in spades so I’m still waiting for him to get out of that ice cream cone and make a comeback.

  123. here’s Kworb’s (from Pulse Board’s) entire posting (about WWFM)

    POP:
    34 30 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 1973 1772 201 14.221
    +68 Spins
    +57 Bullet
    +0.179 AI

    HAC:
    40 36 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 437 344 93 1.729
    +7 Spins
    -7 Bullet
    +0.026 AI

    Pulse also looked at # adds by the time song reached top 30
    WWFM – 75
    LLWD – 83
    Orianthi’s According to You – 84

    so, adam made it to top 30 with less stations adding him!!!

  124. Will the download numbers be out this week for FYE the single or if it doesn’t sell enough, will it not be included in the numbers?

    If it made the top 200, or if he feels like it (Just kidding) Brian will post it.

  125. cakeygirl
    01/20/2010 at 12:40 pm
    yay! it is #18 on my computer too!!! O_P_R_A_h!

    OMG! I can’t believe he”s moved this far up the chart since Oprah. Adam has to be so happy and RCA is probably dancing the jig that Adam has a hit single. I just can’t believe it! On movers and shakers on Amazon his album is up 450% since yesterday. It’s the Adam Storm!

  126. Kristen
    Do you know which online pages do billboard consider in the streaming chart? Is the radio stations WebPages?

    irlygirl
    Thanks for the daily ITunes update. Do you have the link where I can see these live fees?

  127. Pulse also looked at # adds by the time song reached top 30
    WWFM – 75
    LLWD – 83
    Orianthi’s According to You – 84

    so, adam made it to top 30 with less stations adding him!!!

    Not to be picky, but since a song’s ranking depends on the songs that are around it, does this comparison really make sense? There is a difference between being surrounded by a lot of songs that are falling, and being surrounded by songs by established artists that are rising up the chart.

    He is a tremendous talent and was extremely popular coming off the show but he was woefully mishandled. No advance single? No push to radio?

    In 19 and Arista’s defense, Taylor was the one who didn’t want to work on the album on the tour. So, his single was late. Besides, in the early years of AI nobody released a single before their album came out. It was a stupid thing to do, but it didn’t hurt Daughtry from going platinum in just four weeks.

    And as talented as Taylor is, there were very few radio stations that were going to play his style of music. I give Taylor credit for knowing that, but still remaining true to himself.

  128. POP:
    26 25 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 2943 2737 206 16.936
    +29 Spins
    -5 Bullet
    +0.097 AI

    HAC:
    11 9 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 2475 2328 147 12.786
    +18 Spins
    -8 Bullet
    +0.221 AI

  129. girlygirl
    01/20/2010 at 12:52 pm
    “Now if Oprah would just bring Kris on as a guest…”

    If he get’s the chance, he better grab it, because it’s doing great things for Adam.

  130. I don’t know why Idol fans would suddenly be a lot more willing to shell out bucks for Kris’s album now than they were in November and December.

    Because they’re casual fans. Because they don’t stick around until November and December to check out the new albums. Because once the new show rolls around they think, “oh, yeah, whatever happened to that guy who won AI that I voted for? I wonder what his music sounds like?”

    I’m guessing a lot more of these casual fan votes went to Kris, especially if they were fans of Danny who switched over in the last week. I think David C. was also a bigger beneficiary of the casual vote his year, and his numbers would seem to indicate that after they checked out his album when the new season started, more of them bought it.

  131. Will the download numbers be out this week for FYE the single or if it doesn’t sell enough, will it not be included in the numbers?

    Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment (12,000, -8 percent, 220,000)

  132. I really like Orianthi’s album, she’s a talented girl. What a guitar player!

  133. Give me a break. He’s still got the goods in spades so I’m still waiting for him to get out of that ice cream cone and make a comeback.

    Please don’t throw tomatoes, because I know this isn’t the direction Taylor fans want their guy to go … but I’ve always thought Taylor would be very successful hosting a variety/musical/comedy hour on TV. These types of show cycle around and there hasn’t been one on TV in some time. Yeah, there’s nothing hip and current about it, but he’s a showman and his personality would lend itself to that type of show. Plus, he could perform his own music and would probably end up selling far more albums and downloads than he ever would otherwise.

  134. bridgette12
    01/20/2010 at 12:45 pm
    cakeygirl
    01/20/2010 at 12:40 pm
    yay! it is #18 on my computer too!!! O_P_R_A_h!

    OMG! I can’t believe he”s moved this far up the chart since Oprah. Adam has to be so happy and RCA is probably dancing the jig that Adam has a hit single. I just can’t believe it! On movers and shakers on Amazon his album is up 450% since yesterday. It’s the Adam Storm!

    WWFM is probably moving up on I-tunes more due to radioplay ( just like LLWD) and maybe due to MV, it started to go up a few days before Oprah, but the Amazon and the albums on I-tunes – Oprah’s magic touch for sure! So thank you, Oprah! :)

  135. Wow, I can’t believe the bounce Oprah has had for Adam. Hopefully it will last a couple more days!

    I use the billboard Hot 100 as a compass for which songs are hits. I’ve never heard of mediabase charts, etc, before following Adam so to the casual fan, I think BB is what is mostly used. Well, that and the countdown charts done by Ryan and Rick Dees. (Yes I know they use mediabase now, but before this year, had no clue.)

  136. All the fan groups seem to think that Brian is biased against their favourite. Must mean he’s being pretty even-handed.

    Ha, yes, and a lot of fan groups seem to say the same about MJ’s, Jim Cantiello, Slezak, etc. My question is: what’s the big deal? Idol bloggers will invariably have their preferences– they’re fans of the show too, and are allowed their opinions. They can’t win. Even if they like everyone (which, c’mon, they won’t), they’ll still be accused of liking one MORE than another. The bloggers I’ve mentioned are all the ones that I read because I find their coverage interesting to read, even if I disagree with them–but if at some point I feel one of them is unbearably unfair to my favorite, I may stop reading that one. No biggie. Brian’s numbers are always brought here anyway, so no one really needs to go there if it’s a problem.

    Actually, IMO, of the bloggers mentioned MJ and Brian seem to broadcast their favorites the least, in comparison to Jim and Slezak– it’s just the style of the blogs–Jim and Slezak’s forays into fanboy-ness are pretty amusing for many, and part of their charm. I can guess pretty well who Brian’s favorite Idols are, but I don’t think he cares THAT much about any of the Idols that he’s consciously skewing his blog against Adam to rile up fans and minimize him or anything. I dunno, I find his coverage of Idol worth skimming and quite like his track-by-track reviews because they’re so detailed, even though I have very different tastes from him. He gave DC a somewhat meh review of his NYC concert, but that’s just his opinion. I’m not butthurt or anything (love that term, heh).

  137. Also, can’t wait to get the WWFM video next week. Since his FYE stayed near the top on Itunes for a while, I suspect WWFM will do the same and will help sales.

  138. I use the billboard Hot 100 as a compass for which songs are hits. I’ve never heard of mediabase charts, etc, before following Adam so to the casual fan, I think BB is what is mostly used. Well, that and the countdown charts done by Ryan and Rick Dees. (Yes I know they use mediabase now, but before this year, had no clue.)

    I would guess BB and AT40. I know in my mind, if a song was played by Casey Kasem on the top 40 countdown while I was riding around in the “way back” of the family station wagon without a seatbelt (there,I just aged myself!) then it was a hit.

  139. I don’t know why Idol fans would suddenly be a lot more willing to shell out bucks for Kris’s album now than they were in November and December.

    Because they’re casual fans. Because they don’t stick around until November and December to check out the new albums. Because once the new show rolls around they think, “oh, yeah, whatever happened to that guy who won AI that I voted for? I wonder what his music sounds like?”

    Yeah, I agree that that’s all true. But I wasn’t stating my point clearly. I wasn’t saying that because Kris was a slow seller earlier *nobody* would go on to buy his album under the current impetus. Of course, Idol’s new appearance will spur some people to buy last season’s folks.

    My point was a comparative one — David C was a much stronger seller with Idol fans in the early going than Kris has been. Thus, I would only *expect* Kris to get from smaller bumps from the next season’s Idol than DC did. I wouldn’t expect him suddenly to be a very strong seller with the same people with whom he’s been a weak seller previously.

    And that’s turned out to be the case. And, given Kris’s weaker sales record overall, I consider it a positive thing for him that he got *any* visible bump from the opening of Idol. Yeah, it was *much* smaller than DC’s bump; but Kris’s album sales, period, have been way lower than DC’s, so there’s no reason to expect that that pattern would change when we’re looking at opening-of-the-next-season sales, is there?

  140. WWFM is probably moving up on I-tunes more due to radioplay ( just like LLWD) and maybe due to MV, it started to go up a few days before Oprah, but the Amazon and the albums on I-tunes – Oprah’s magic touch for sure!

    The single and album started going up after the show started airing, and weren’t last week after the MV. Just like after AI showed last week there was an increase in sales for Adam and Kris that can’t be accounted for by airplay.

    People appear Oprah they get boosts in sales, it’s what happens. Just like last year when the show started both Davids increases in their sales. I don’t know why this is such a bad thing to admit that AI showing and Oprah have effects on sales. Eh.

  141. Don’t really understand your logic here. Because Kris’s starting raw numbers were a lot lower that David C.’s, it actually would have taken much fewer albums sold to receive a nice percentage increase.

    Kris’s Soundscan numbers for last week were 5,430 albums sold.TW with 13% increase that jumps to 6,136, or an increase of 706 albums. Assume a 58% increase like DC had, that number would have jumped to 8,579, or an increase of 3,149 albums. In other words, all Kris needed to do to match DC’s increase of 58% was sell another 2,443 albums.
    OTOH, when David got his +58% bump last year, he went from 19,000 to 31,000 albums, or an increase of 12,000 albums.
    Now I understand that we’re not only talking about the increase in albums sold but also the fact that the numbers didn’t erode like they did for others on the charts. Still, with the millions of people that watch AI, that saw the commercial and heard the music, and presumably remember the guy they voted for to win the show, I’m really amazed by these low numbers, especially with LLWD selling well and so present on the radio.

    ITA! I am very surprised that the bump from American Idol was only 13% for Kris. It was 58% last year for Cook. Your post brings up a good point. The more albums you sell, the harder it is to get impressive percentage increases. KA should have had an easier time with accomplishing a big increase.
    I’m happy with Adam’s increase because Archie’s was 6% after the first week idol bump. Plus, Adam started out in the top 50 and moved UP on the charts. (I’m not saying Archie didn’t.) The higher the album is on the charts, the harder it is to accomplish sales increases.
    The last bolded part is the most surprising to me. I don’t understand why a higher percentage of people who voted for Kris last year don’t want to buy his album. AI gave him lots of face time last week with the backdrop and commercials. His single is on the radio. Why do people only want his single?

    Congrats to Adam on the Oprah bump! I knew it would be big. She has a huge audience and they are buyers!

  142. i think everything on itunes is gonna get bumped back 2 spots pretty soon bc Oprah is telling people to download rihanna and maxwell to benefit haiti…good idea

  143. i think everything on itunes is gonna get bumped back 2 spots pretty soon bc Oprah is telling people to download rihanna and maxwell to benefit haiti…good idea

    Yeah, when I saw Oprah’s show yesterday I was thought Adam’s bump would be a short one, because today because there would be new musical guests and it’s going for Haitian relief. Which I am very happy to hear that it’s happening, so not that disparaging that at all.

  144. The single and album started going up after the show started airing, and weren’t last week after the MV.

    Actually that’s not true; after the WWFM music vid premiere on Friday the song moved from the mid 40s to the mid 30s. Not sure how it affected the album, though.

  145. Kris is in the banner on the top of Vevo’s home page (it’s a rotating banner of several artists). Nice!

    http://www.vevo.com/

    That was a really good video they did with Kris..thanks for posting!

  146. Actually that’s not true; after the WWFM music vid premiere on Friday the song moved from the mid 40s to the mid 30s. Not sure how it affected the album, though.

    Well what I meant was he got this latest big pop from Oprah, because it clearly started happening the day of the show and has continued from then. I should have been clearer. Darn work for making me actually WORK while trying to post. Bastadges.

  147. I just wanna say, to give some perspective, that Orianthi has apparently sold 33K of her debut album so far.

  148. Little surprised Danny’s single doesn’t seem to be selling well, since he is doing pretty well on the country chart.

    He’s not high enough on the charts for download sales to really kick in yet.

    Well, Carrie and Taylor aside, as I understand it, Country music traditionally doesn’t do well with digital singles and is more of an album and bricks and mortar type genre. I mean, that was my understanding.

    Country’s album sales are way down too. Lady Antebellum’s doing great digital sales these days although with music that is more 70s soft rock than country. Keith Urban and Rascal Flatts usually also do pretty well and Brad Paisley too. Jason Aldean’s had some good downloads success. So has Zac Brown Band. Come to think of it there’s some pretty traditional country singles that have sold 500k downloads too.

    So the acts with crossover/younger fanbases usually do fine as far as downloads and there are more and more of those these days. Since Danny comes from AI and his sound isn’t country one would expect him to sell better in downloads than most other new country acts. But his song is still trying to make the country top 40 so it won’t happen yet. The downloads will probably increase when his album comes out and he’s promoting that with TV performances. IMO the label will be hoping that pushes airplay.

  149. mmb
    01/20/2010 at 1:24 pm
    i think everything on itunes is gonna get bumped back 2 spots pretty soon bc Oprah is telling people to download rihanna and maxwell to benefit haiti…good idea

    Yeah that is a good idea. I have no doubt it’s going to make a lot of money to benefit Haiti. I just wish she would have chosen someone else besides those two to download. I can’t stand either one of their music.

  150. Wow, I can’t believe the bounce Oprah has had for Adam. Hopefully it will last a couple more days!

    Oprah is AMAZING! That’s all I’ve gotta say ;-)

    Re Kris and the album sales, even after the AI premiere, I think in part what helped Kris get the victory over Adam may be hurting him with the album sales now. Adam was polarizing, people LOVED him, people HATED him. Those people loving him then, for the most part, stayed with him (of course not all, but many), and bought the album and are buying as much “Adam” as they are, say, a single (that is, it’s not so much about hearing WWFM at this point, or FYE, but rather just wanting to buy “Adam” the brand, person, identity, what have you).

    Kris, otoh, won in part because he appealed to many more people, but those same people felt neither overwhelming love or hate for him. How can you not LIKE the guy. That said, it means that that core just isn’t as invested in “Kris” the brand when it comes out as an album in the fall. Being reminded of him with the AI premiere definitely helped, but IDK how many people would have been converted, especially considering that there wasn’t any specific “Kris” segment on the show. Hearing a song or two in the background, or seeing his face is not going to necessarily cement that brand in people’s brains to make them say – oh, yes- let me buy that album.

    If, for instance, they had done some nice montage of Kris’s idol journey, to really remind people of great performances last year (FS, SWHFTM, Heartless, etc.) – and then segued to some snippets of LLWD, etc, it might have done him a better service. I still personally wish TPTB would give more of a vocal push to the AI8ers (Allison too) to help them with sales. But, eh, what are you gonna do?

    When these guys finally perform on AI this season though (still not for a little while longer) – I can definitely see that having a nice boost for them!

  151. ITA! I am very surprised that the bump from American Idol was only 13% for Kris. It was 58% last year for Cook. Your post brings up a good point. The more albums you sell, the harder it is to get impressive percentage increases. KA should have had an easier time with accomplishing a big increase.

    But he has not *ever* sold very well with the Idol fanbase!!! We know that this is true. His album has been a very slow seller in the days when the fanbase *only* was most likely buying. He’s not only sold worse than David C, he’s sold worse than Adam — who himself has sold way way worse than David C….. So why should we suddenly expect Kris to get a big bump???

    Idol fans made clear in 2009, when Kris was still fresh in their minds, that they weren’t particularly interested in buying his album (and, similarly, they also made clear that they were way way less interested in buying Adam’s album than David C’s as well, and somewhat less interested in buying Adam’s than in buying David A’s. ….) That being the case, there’s no logical reason to suspect that suddenly, now, a whole bunch would say — Oh, I want to buy Kris’s album! or I want to buy Adam’s album! ….

    Idol viewers have made quite plain that they’re way less interested in buying albums from the Season 8 guys than from the people in any previous Season, and surely there’s no reason in the world to think that that would change just because a new Idol season had begun! IN fact, I would expect that, if people started out pretty uninterested, their interest would most likely wane even faster than it does when they start out interested, leading to even lower sales at subsequent milestones. This seems to be the way it happens in the world at large, isn’t it? I’m baffled as to why anybody would be surprised by this.

  152. Why Maxwell and Rihanna? I looked them up — neither is Haitian. Have they recorded something specifically for Haitian relief efforts?

  153. Why Maxwell and Rihanna? I looked them up — neither is Haitian. Have they recorded something specifically for Haitian relief efforts?

    Yep.

  154. WWFM is now #17 on Itunes and keeps rising. The Album is #33 and #39. This is all on the combined charts. He is #6 on Amazon with green arrow up. I know this won’t last forever but it is fun while it is happening. WWFM may stay doing well as the song is good and the push from Oprah has gotten more people to listen to it and realize how much they like it. IMHO

  155. I hear Adam and Kris on z-100 all the time, so it is all good

    Oh, to be in NYC! Stupid DC and it’s lack of playing anything but Taylor, Gaga, Britney, and the BEPs 24/7. (Though I do hear LLWD every now and then, finally!)

  156. I really think Adam deserves credit for the bounce today and yesterday, not just Oprah. I mean if he came across as an arrogant ass then I don’t think we’d be seeing the big jumps we are seeing.

    I never would have imagined his CDs each jumping almost 100 places, or his single jumping so high. Maybe he will get his gold CD before the middle of Feb. He only needs 43,000 to get there.

  157. yep, both Adam and Kris have moved up one spot on iTunes from the last time I checked (2 1/2 hours ago) — WWFM is now at #17 and LLWD at #20

    FYE the album is now at #34 and #39

  158. I’m still thinking 3 weeks more for Adam’s album to go gold — although that would change if he gets a huge increase this week.

    I’m estimating mid-late April for LLWD to go platinum, although, again, that could change if he continues to sell 40000+K the next few weeks

  159. I really think Adam deserves credit for the bounce today and yesterday, not just Oprah. I mean if he came across as an arrogant ass then I don’t think we’d be seeing the big jumps we are seeing.

    Absolutely! I love Oprah because she gave him the opportunity, the platform, if you will, to be able to show off his amazing self to her MANY MANY fans :-) That interview yesterday was just made of so much win – Adam completely hit a home run with it. Charming, funny, sweet, plus great performances. Oprah helped too by being such a fangirl of his :-)

  160. Kris, otoh, won in part because he appealed to many more people, but those same people felt neither overwhelming love or hate for him. How can you not LIKE the guy. That said, it means that that core just isn’t as invested in “Kris” the brand when it comes out as an album in the fall. Being reminded of him with the AI premiere definitely helped, but IDK how many people would have been converted, especially considering that there wasn’t any specific “Kris” segment on the show.

    Yes, I kind of understand this, but with Kris’ single getting quite a bit of airplay on HAC (Top 10) and CHR (almost Top 20) and with people being reminded of him by the AI premiere, I would have thought more people than the 800 or so additional peeps who bought his album this week versus last week would have at least gotten curious enough to look him up on iTunes or Youtube to sample the songs, and liked enough of what they heard that they bought the album. I mean even if you think that Kris has got 1/4 of Cook’s AI fanbase, considering Cook got a 12k bump in album sales from the AI premiere, why couldn’t Kris get a corresponding 3k bump in album sales. I don’t think the viewership dwindled very much between the S8 and S9 premieres, right?

  161. FYE the album is now at #34 and #39

    wonder what the combined ranking would be…just curious to see where he stands on itunes vis-a-vis SuBo, who only has one version but bumped back up into the top ten.

  162. lorismile
    I really think Adam deserves credit for the bounce today and yesterday, not just Oprah. I mean if he came across as an arrogant ass then I don’t think we’d be seeing the big jumps we are seeing.

    Good point. I mean, he def couldn’t have done it without her LOL, but his whole demeanor and the totally open and positive body language he had going on with Oprah no doubt fueled the enthusiam she showed. And Oprah’s enthusiasm = Oprah viewer enthusiasm. Plus, he was just so presh!

  163. Yes, I kind of understand this, but with Kris’ single getting quite a bit of airplay on HAC (Top 10) and CHR (almost Top 20) and with people being reminded of him by the AI premiere, I would have thought more people than the 800 or so additional peeps who bought his album this week versus last week would have at least gotten curious enough to look him up on iTunes or Youtube to sample the songs, and liked enough of what they heard that they bought the album

    Well, but Kris did get a bump in terms of his singles, so maybe people are being curious and remembering they liked that guy from last year, and are going out and buying a bit of his music, but not committing to his album. Because they liked the guy, they hear his single on the radio, but they don’t quite yet feel like committing to a whole album based on the level of their seeing/liking Kris again.

  164. . I mean even if you think that Kris has got 1/4 of Cook’s AI fanbase, considering Cook got a 12k bump in album sales from the AI premiere, why couldn’t Kris get a corresponding 3k bump in album sales. I don’t think the viewership dwindled very much between the S8 and S9 premieres, right?

    Well, I would say that while Kris didn’t score that 3000 boost, he probably *did* get a bump closer to 2000, anyway, than to the 1000 that people are citing, because *without* the Idol premiere I expect that his album sales would actually have slid considerably downward from last week, rather than staying constant at last week’s figure.

    So the Idol start gave him the 1000 sales *beyond* last week plus added in more to compensate for the drop he would have had …. I don’t see anything else that would have kept the album sales figure steady from last week, really. So if his “Idol boost” was really more like 2000 than 1000 (and I maintain it was), then that does put him relatively close to tracking that 1/4-of-DC’s-sales-levels thing, even now. ….

    Plus, I would also think that, if people were less interested in buying your stuff in the first place, then it wouldn’t be really surprising if their interest in you also waned faster than for that other person. So, while he has been kind of tracking at 1/4 DC’s level, with a faster wane in the only lukewarm interest Idol fans had in him to begin with, I don’t think it’s surprising that now he’s tracking at about 1/5 the DC sales level…..

  165. similarly, they also made clear that they were way way less interested in buying Adam’s album than David C’s as well, and somewhat less interested in buying Adam’s than in buying David A’s. ….) Idol viewers have made quite plain that they’re way less interested in buying albums from the Season 8 guys than from the people in any previous Season, and surely there’s no reason in the world to think that that would change just because a new Idol season had begun!

    Cook won. Adam didn’t.

    Adam and Archie (the two runners-up) are comparable. Their cd sales were very close until the January slump hit. (Archie released two more weeks before Adam did, which gave the cd two more weeks during the prime buying time.) If you want to discount that, because I know someone will, then you need to factor in that album sales are down as a whole. CD sales are down 13%. If you take 13% off of Archies numbers, then Adams and Archies numbers are very close.
    Even if we totally ignore these two variables, Adam’s album numbers are still in line with Archies. Kris’ and Cook’s numbers are MILES APART! It’s not that season 8 viewers are uninterested in the guys from season 8, they are uninterested in the winner.

    This seems to be the way it happens in the world at large, isn’t it? I’m baffled as to why anybody would be surprised by this.

    This isn’t the normal music world. It is American Idol. The idols are not in the same category as new artists. People are surprised because the winner always (as in all the seven seasons before) sells better than Kris has. People are surprised because the winners usually get a really nice bump in sales when AI starts back up.

  166. But they had a whole commercial (in 1:00 and 1:30 versions, I think) showcasing Cook. Remember the backwards journey ad airing every five minutes before S8 started? So far, Kris has had 30 seconds (maybe) of a commercial he shared with Adam and a 30 second Ford spot. That’s it. Cook definitely benefited from the big, splashy ad focused just on him and highlighting “Light On” as well.

  167. Even if we totally ignore these two variables, Adam’s album numbers are still in line with Archies. Kris’ and Cook’s numbers are MILES APART! It’s not that season 8 viewers are uninterested in the guys from season 8, they are uninterested in the winner.

    Agreed. They are less interested in Adam than they were in Cook, just as thye were less interested in Archie’s album than in Cook’s. … And they are way less interested in Kris’s than in any of the others. The numbers make all of that clear. I agree with you completely on that.

    I also understand that everybody’s baffled about *why* Kris’s album has been from the beginning so much less interesting to people than the others’ albums. I share that bafflement.

    What I disagree with people about, though, is that Kris’s very small sales bump from Idol’s new season is surprising. Idol fans weren’t interested in him before, so why are they going to be more interested in him now? I think that low interest not only *is* lower but probably tends to fade faster as well.

  168. But they had a whole commercial (in 1:00 and 1:30 versions, I think) showcasing Cook. Remember the backwards journey ad airing every five minutes before S8 started? So far, Kris has had 30 seconds (maybe) of a commercial he shared with Adam and a 30 second Ford spot. That’s it. Cook definitely benefited from the big, splashy ad focused just on him and highlighting “Light On” as well.

    I thought that Kris filmed some big promo (per the Vevo vid) that hasn’t been shown yet…looks to me like that could be similar to the Cook spot last year. I presume that it will be shown at some point, maybe closer to top 24 or top 12.

  169. But they had a whole commercial (in 1:00 and 1:30 versions, I think) showcasing Cook. Remember the backwards journey ad airing every five minutes before S8 started? So far, Kris has had 30 seconds (maybe) of a commercial he shared with Adam and a 30 second Ford spot. That’s it. Cook definitely benefited from the big, splashy ad focused just on him and highlighting “Light On” as well.

    Pretty much. Cookie’s was dubbed a “pimpmercial”. They did a whole segment on him directly followed by the LO commercial during the break. Kris got a nice mention, but it wasn’t extensive.

    Didn’t they do some auditions in LA this year? I suspect Adam will get a pimpmerical too, maybe Allison will get a nice mention.

    Even if we totally ignore these two variables, Adam’s album numbers are still in line with Archies. Kris’ and Cook’s numbers are MILES APART! It’s not that season 8 viewers are uninterested in the guys from season 8, they are uninterested in the winner.

    Well, when you put it that way… LOL. Seriously though, it makes sense. There is Idol audience interest in Adam roughly in line with popular contestants of the past… even if it’s not a strong it is still roughly comparable. Kris is way more in line with Jordin when it comes to Idol audience interest.

  170. Who has the Itunes live feed link? Where I can see the laters Itune’s update.

    Thank you so much,

  171. Kris is in the banner on the top of Vevo’s home page (it’s a rotating banner of several artists). Nice!

    http://www.vevo.com/

    What a great video. Cool and laid-back, just like Kris. Thanks for posting!

  172. Even if we totally ignore these two variables, Adam’s album numbers are still in line with Archies. Kris’ and Cook’s numbers are MILES APART! It’s not that season 8 viewers are uninterested in the guys from season 8, they are uninterested in the winner.

    It’s not like placement on the show has an a priori sales quota, though. (Just ask the folks of Season 5) It’s not a helpful analysis tool, really. If you look at the tangible benefits coming off the show, Adam and Archie really aren’t comparable. Kris and Cook are moreso than that.

    That said, it’s pretty clear the audience isn’t as interested in Kris as they have been with previous Idol contestants. That’s not exactly news, though.

  173. I blame the lack of support for the S8 Idols from the Idol viewers mostly on last year’s horrible format. I do realize that the first few seasons had that format as well, but at the time, AI was still a novelty and it was much easier to sell big after winning. The AI viewers were used to the top 24 format from seasons before where they got more attached to the performers. Also, there were much less of a chance of sending mediocre singers into the top 12 based on 1 performance. The top 36 screwed everything up. The audience wasn’t as involved or connected leading to lack of support for this group. This isn’t fair to anyone, but that’s the real issue. All of these kids need to emotionally connect with the AI viewers for the initial sales base and AI bumps that come along. The emotional connection isn’t there, and this is troublesome for all 4 signed Idols from season 8. So, in my opinion, the real answer for why there wasn’t more of a bump from AI premiere or higher AI fan sales all around this season is just simple indifference to the performers. Jordin had a similar problem even with the top 24 format, but at least she was able to have pop hits to help with sales. The Season 8 contestants may be able to overcome this indifference like Jordin did, so there is hope for that although there is still indifference to her as an artist.

  174. The top 36 screwed everything up. The audience wasn’t as involved or connected leading to lack of support for this group.

    Although I didn’t care for the top 36 format I disagree that it influenced contestant loyalty. By the time we get to Top 12 (or 13 as in AI8) people don’t even remember how many we started out with. Top 12 is Top 12 regardless of how we got there. From 12 on we develop our loyalties and by Top 6 have some very clear opinions.

    Low sales numbers are illegal downloads plain and simple IMO.
    Why Kris is selling singles and Adam selling albums is trickier- I think it is Kris selling a song and Adam selling himself but who knows.

  175. But he has not *ever* sold very well with the Idol fanbase!!! We know that this is true. His album has been a very slow seller in the days when the fanbase *only* was most likely buying. He’s not only sold worse than David C, he’s sold worse than Adam — who himself has sold way way worse than David C….. So why should we suddenly expect Kris to get a big bump???

    One thing that indicate that Kris did have an Idol fanbase when he left Idol is that NoBo sold 250,000 units. I that had to be sales to be mostly Idol fans buying the song. [And a lot of Kris fans did not buy NoBo because it was just not a good song.]

    I think that Kris’ lower album and single sales [compared to past Idol winners] in the initial Idol fan buying period — presales and about 1st 2 weeks — may be related to a couple of factors:

    1. Some people voted for Kris for reasons other than his music — he is cute, very likable and he wasn’t Adam — among other reasons. But I still think Kris has a lot of fans who are fans of his music.

    2. Kris’ album is in a genre that is not the same as what Idol fans seem to buy heavily — the big selling albums have been pop, pop/R&B, contemporary rock and country. That means that Kris needs to build a new, non-Idol fan base. The strong sales of LLWD may indicate that he is doing just that. So I for one will just be patient and wait — slow out of the gate, does not mean that the album will not sell. [Although I admit I am surprised it did not sell over 10K units this week.]

    Similarly, Adam has an AI fanbase that is very passionate and gave him great initial sales — but he has started to build a fanbase beyond Idol. Adam isn’t a typical Idol alum and Adam put out an album that is not in typical Idol alum genres — in fact, there is not a similar album currently out by a major male pop/rock artist released in recent memory. Looks like WWFM is headed to be a hit single — and Adam is finally getting some real airplay, the WWFM music video is great, the Oprah Show and so on, should result in a good sales week this week. Plus, Adam is poised to do really well internationally.

    Finally, there are only a handful of artists who have sold over 200,000 units [US] of a debut album this year. Buying a new artist is a risk, and in a major recession people tend to avoid risky purchases — and become more conservative in their decisionmaking. So I think it is important not just to look at what is happening to the overall music business but also to look at how new artists are doing — and most of the successful new artist are selling to tweens [not Kris’ or Adam’s main fanbase] or are named “Susan Boyle”.

  176. Didn’t they do some auditions in LA this year? I suspect Adam will get a pimpmerical too, maybe Allison will get a nice mention.

    Yes – next week will have an LA audition – so I too am expecting some kind of Adam (and maybe tangential Allison) mention. Same thing I mentioned re Cook last year – they gave him some nice show mentions during the KC auditions. Is there any audition coming up comparable to Kris’s Louisville one from last year? IDK.

  177. “Even if we totally ignore these two variables, Adam’s album numbers are still in line with Archies. Kris’ and Cook’s numbers are MILES APART! It’s not that season 8 viewers are uninterested in the guys from season 8, they are uninterested in the winner.”

    Actually IMO this doesn’t make sense. Adam has had A LOT more exposure than Archie ever did, probably more than most Idol winners have had as well. We shouldn’t look at album sales without some perspective on that.

  178. But they had a whole commercial (in 1:00 and 1:30 versions, I think) showcasing Cook. Remember the backwards journey ad airing every five minutes before S8 started? So far, Kris has had 30 seconds (maybe) of a commercial he shared with Adam and a 30 second Ford spot. That’s it. Cook definitely benefited from the big, splashy ad focused just on him and highlighting “Light On” as well.

    Kris has filmed his promo spot and if you view the Vevo video you will get the an overview of what it will look like. I suspect they won’t show it until the first night of the top 24 perfomances. I would think this would be a good plan since the audition episodes are not that engaging so far.

  179. I blame the lack of support for the S8 Idols from the Idol viewers mostly on last year’s horrible format. I do realize that the first few seasons had that format as well, but at the time, AI was still a novelty and it was much easier to sell big after winning.

    It wasn’t just the format, I also blame the focus being on the judges instead of on the contestants. Kris being used as cannon fodder, and not having a lot of screen time before the final round also hurts. Viewers just never got a chance to develop an emotional connection with him. A lot of AI fans buy the albums because of the artists, and not so much because they love the music, a love of the music may develop later on, but that’s not the initial reason why the buy the albums. People just aren’t that sentimental as far as Kris is concerned. There are a lot of reasons for this, some of them are his own fault, and some fault lies with 19 and the media.

    Either way, Kris is at a point now where I think it’s all on him. Jive and 19 can get him opportunities where he can promote himself and the music, but he has to take advantage of those opportunities, and let people know who he is and what he cares about.

  180. Aileen, it’s an interesting theory. I agree that we didn’t get to know the performers as much in S8 but on the other hand, I have never in all years of Idol watching power voted and felt so strongly for a contestant before S8 either. So I guess it didn’t matter to me, it was about the singing.

    My Idol history is: Season 1 – Loved Kelly and voted, S2- liked Clay better than Ruben, voted a couple of times but did buy Clay’s first album. I’ve since lost interest. S3 didn’t vote, S4 liked Connie (I’ll admit it!) , S5 didn’t vote, S6 voted for Blake a few times but wasn’t really invested, S7 voted for Cook but didn’t follow post-Idol but did buy the album when it came out. I really liked Carly too.

    But Season 8 I voted my butt off. I think it does come down to finding a contestant you connect with musically and want to hear more from later. I checked out the spoilers for S9 and doubt I’ll be voting much, no one has peaked my interest. But I love the show and will watch for entertainment.

    My post Idol buying consists of Kelly, Clay, Constantine, Cook and Adam. And 1 single from Kris and 1 single from Allison.

  181. Well, I would say that while Kris didn’t score that 3000 boost, he probably *did* get a bump closer to 2000, anyway, than to the 1000 that people are citing, because *without* the Idol premiere I expect that his album sales would actually have slid considerably downward from last week, rather than staying constant at last week’s figure. … So if his “Idol boost” was really more like 2000 than 1000 (and I maintain it was), then that does put him relatively close to tracking that 1/4-of-DC’s-sales-levels thing, even now. ….

    What, so Kris’s bump was closer to 2000 (factoring in your guesstimate of the downward slide averted), but David C’s stayed the same? No, presumably DC also got a bump larger than 12,000 (due to downward slide averted), so use the same percentage you used for Kris to calculate additional album sales — and we’re back where we started. Bottom line, before the bump the ratio of KA albums sold to DC albums sold was 1:3.5. After the bump, it was 1:5. So Kris definitely lost some ground.

    But, regardless, 20+ million people watched the show and that translated into 700-800 additional albums over the prior week? Presumably from the so-called casual viewers? To me, that’s what’s eye-opening.

  182. What, so Kris’s bump was closer to 2000 (factoring in your guesstimate of the downward slide averted), but David C’s stayed the same? No, presumably DC also got a bump larger than 12,000 (due to downward slide averted), so use the same percentage you used for Kris to calculate additional album sales — and we’re back where we started.

    Yeah, you’re probably right. I was thinking that, unlike Kris’s sales of late, DC’s post-Christmas sales had remained at kind of a steady level, so he wouldn’t have had to make up for a dip *and* get a boost beyond even-with-the-last week. But I guess you’re saying that his slid steeply, too, post-Christmas?? …. Okay, if that’s so, then the gap is bigger than I was thinking ….

    Nevertheless, my main point doesn’t depend on any of that: Idol viewers clearly were always pretty favorably inclined toward buying David’s album, from the beginning. Just as clearly, they have *not* been favorably inclined toward buying Kris’s.

    To me, it’s just logical that not only would David then naturally get a much bigger boost from the new season’s opener (just as he’d been selling much better to folks all along), but the higher interest in him would fade more slowly than the interest in Kris, which was very very tepid to begin with. I think hotter interest probably not only is hotter all along but probably cools slower than interest that was never hot to begin with.

    All my parsing out has just been to say, to me, Kris’s small bump from the new Idol season seems perfectly logical, given the different response Idol fans have had to buying his album from the beginning. I don’t see why anybody is surprised or would ever ever have expected him to get a bump in any way commensurate to the bump DC got, because DC’s sales record with the Idol fanbase was way better all along.

    Honestly, though , I still think that Kris’s sales going up at *all* with the Idol return is nothing but a positive for him. His sales record has been low enough that, to me, it wouldn’t have been all that surprising if he’d gotten no visible boost at *all* from the show starting again, especially because he hasn’t been featured on it all that much, thus far.

  183. Brian’s spins and biases are not only obvious, they are comical to me. It seems to me that Kris has the favor of the idol bloggers and Adam has the favor of the mainstream media, including OprahfreakinWinfrey! I’m okay with that! :)

  184. People just aren’t that sentimental as far as Kris is concerned. There are a lot of reasons for this, some of them are his own fault and some fault lies with 19 and the media.

    Either way, Kris is at a point now where I think it’s all on him. Jive and 19 can get him opportunities where he can promote himself and the music, but he has to take advantage of those opportunities, and let people know who he is and what he cares about.

    I disagree with the bolded part. I don’t think Kris has done anything wrong in regards to promoting himself. Jive/19 seems to have dropped the ball a few times, but not too badly.

    Kris comes across as a cool, witty guy in his interviews. I think the issue is while Kris gives no reason to dislike him, he may not give some people reason to deem him newsworthy. He’s not a lightning rod–the chances of him doing anything controversial and therefore becoming tabloid-fodder are small. And for some people, they use whether someone is mentioned in gossip magazines as the measure of success. To that end, I don’t see that happening for Kris.

    Kris IS very likeable, though–so the key is to tap into that and find ways to market the funny, good-looking guy that he is. He just needs accentuate the positive, if you will.

    If you watch the VEVO video, you’ll see Kris in a great light–very much his own person and about the music. I like that and others do, too. It’s just a matter of connecting the dots for others to come on board.

    All artists have to take advantage of the chances given to them. It’s on all of them to look out for themselves. I don’t think Kris–or any of the Idols, for that matter–turn down any good opportunities. They all have to keep working the grind. Both Kris and Adam seem to be aware of that and continue to work hard. That’s all we can ask of them as fans.

  185. Yep, and as her single has climbed, she’s moved a few more albums. But, as a new artist, nobody is going to buy her album until they become more familiar with her and her music. Something similar may be happening with Jay Sean, who has two songs that have sold more than a million copies, but people still don’t know who he is, so they aren’t buying his album.

  186. I just wanna say, to give some perspective, that Orianthi has apparently sold 33K of her debut album so far.

    I meant to quote this statement in my previous post.

  187. It was worth the wait to finally get Jason Castro’s EP. I hope everyone takes a listen.

  188. Why Kris is selling singles and Adam selling albums is trickier- I think it is Kris selling a song and Adam selling himself but who knows.

    I do think RCA/19 is marketing Adam more as a brand than Jive/19 is doing with Kris. But I think personality plays a part too. Adam just has a bigger personality and it interests people more. Its not better than Kris, but some careers need a more outgoing personality to catch people’s interests. I prefer Adam over Kris but I understand where Kris is coming from because my personality is more like his than Adam. Kris is going to have to get more assertive and start promoting himself as he gets more opportunities. He can’t continue to be so laid back. It might have worked on the show but we’re in the real world now and he has to start standing out.

    Plus, people watch the show for entertainment. I myself have watched every season thus far, and I have only bought complete albums from Kelly, Adam, Jennifer Hudson and Melinda. Viewership does not automatically equal sales.

  189. since I am a new lurker here, and a new AI fan, could you explain the stuff about Taylor Hicks? Why would Disney and AI hate him? Did they want somebody else to win?

  190. It seems to me that Kris has the favor of the idol bloggers and Adam has the favor of the mainstream media

    Yup!! Its always been like that though.

  191. When the LO/Idol promo aired *during* the Idol premiere I remember some referring to it as the Cookinformercial because it seemed like overkill combined with the pimpage he got in the beginning of the episode but other than that did it really air every 5 minutes? I know it aired well over a month but I didn’t think it was actually aired that often. Carrie had a commercial too that played “Just a Dream” so I don’t know if it increased her sales at all..

    IMO Idol viewers just never connected with him on an emotional level. Even though I was rooting for him even his winning moment left me cold. Davids was filled with tears, family on stage and the judges showing happiness something Kris’ was lacking so that could have contributed to the lack of connection. I think the studio version of TOML immediately following the finale even broke the record for amount of streams AOL Music got. But still for Kris Idol viewers are in the millions so exposure there’s always a chance even those who didn’t vote for him could end up liking his music if he’s heavily spotlighted as the season goes on. Idol is still a huge platform for any artist.

    I’m not so sure NB selling 250k means much considering its the lowest selling coronation song and with the exception of Jordins every one has gone gold at least.

  192. Kris is in the banner on the top of Vevo’s home page (it’s a rotating banner of several artists). Nice!

    It looks good! Hopefully it’ll help his album sales.

  193. since I am a new lurker here, and a new AI fan, could you explain the stuff about Taylor Hicks? Why would Disney and AI hate him? Did they want somebody else to win?

    They kind of wanted *anybody* else to win, lol ….

    Seriously, that season had a lot of talent that could be seen as potentially interesting to contemporary listeners/viewers and it had two people that the Idol and Sony folks definitely saw as throwbacks who would be hard to market to contemporary radio and music buyers — Taylor and Elliott.

    So they much much much preferred Daughtry or Katherine or Kellie Pickler, or even Ace, I have a feeling, to a Taylor win. However, Taylor had huge huge fan support on the show and anecdotally pretty unbeatable vote totals throughout the show. So they were annoyed because nothing they could do seemed to threaten Taylor’s juggernaut.

    And then when it was all over, I think they felt their judgment was well confirmed when Daughtry turned into a hot seller, lots of the other Idols from that season got signed by various labels, Katharine got some movie roles, and even Elliott put out a very contemporary album that produced a big pop hit. And all the while Taylor remained Taylor, putting out the music that he always had put out, fighting (I guess) against going the Bo Bice route of allowing them to shove him into the pop style, and thus producing an album that had pretty much nothing that would be a go on pop radio. Thus … he didn’t look at all marketable to the average young music listener. So they dumped him and dumped *on* him, too, inviting various people from his season back — like Elliott, whom they’d never even signed — while pretty much snubbing him altogether.

    That’s my take on it, anyway.

  194. I disagree with the bolded part. I don’t think Kris has done anything wrong in regards to promoting himself. Jive/19 seems to have dropped the ball a few times, but not too badly.

    I’m crazy about Kris, but I will admit that his interviews have been very inconsistent. He can go from witty, funny and open to very closed off, and only giving one sentence answers to questions. A few weeks ago he had four radio interviews over the span of two days, but IMHO, only one of them was worth it. Yes, during one the djs were jerks, but there was no excuse for the other two, where he came off sounding tired (which I’m sure he was, but still that’s not excuse), and really didn’t promote the single or the album. After both of those interviews the djs remarked on how he sounded.

    The interviews that Kris had with Z100 and Ryan during the week that LLWD came out are perfect examples of how different he can be at times. He was so relaxed and funny with the guys at Z100, but with Ryan he couldn’t even tell Ryan the subject of the song that he was working on the night before, and Ryan and Randy talked up LLWD more than Kris did.

    As I said, I love Kris, but he has to realize that he can promote himself and still remain humble. I love how he comes alive when he’s talking about music, and I know that he is capable of avoiding subjects that he doesn’t want to talk about, so instead of giving one sentence answers in these interviews, or getting upset if djs/reporters ask him about something that he doesn’t want to talk about, he should shift the focus to his music.

    It’s clear that Kris needs more promotion, and he would benefit from appearing in more articles, but just like he said he wants reporters to realize that it’s all about the music, he needs to realize that reporters also have a job to do, and they aren’t going to write about him if he doesn’t open up and give them something to write about. And he can’t get mad when reporters or djs come to their own conclusions about who he is, or ask him about Adam or anyone else, if he’s not even willing to talk about himself, or let people know who he is.

    And this has an effect on people contacting Jive with opportunities for Kris to appear on their shows, award shows, etc. If his name isn’t out there, he’s not going to get opportunities like appearing on Oprah, the AMA, ET, etc. Right now, it’s up to Kris to capitalize off of LLWD’s success, as well as to re-write the image that a lot of people have about him.

  195. Kris seems to be doing fine. No need to worry yet.

    Yeah, I agree with this. He didn’t connect with Idol viewers as well as other winners or even many other alums, apparently, at least when it comes to making people want to buy albums.

    However, as we know, while connecting with Idol viewers does give many Idols a welcome early boost, it’s no guarantee of anything beyond that. And to persist, they have to connect with an additional fan base. …. When it comes to that, I’m not sure that the same qualities that serve you very well as an Idol finalist — such as being a highly engaging interview — are of nearly as much service.

    There are some hot sellers in music who *are* good interviews and who give people the kind of warm fuzzy feelings that Idol viewers like, and there are people who are hot sellers in music who don’t seem to have those qualities at all. …. Ultimately, I think it’s mainly the music you put out — or the quality of other performances you give, sometimes, as in Jennifer H’s case, for example — that determines whether you can persist in a music career in the post-Idol world. And that’s yet to be determined for Kris. …. I think he’ll get a longer window to prove himself than some past Idol finalists have been given, mainly because the record companies know that they’re in a brand new world saleswise, just in general, so I’m thinking that if you can get a gold-plus single or a gold album in a relatively short order, they’re probably going to keep you around for a bit to see if things work out. Too few people are hitting even those markers today to give up immediately on people who *do* hit them, even if they did get an Idol boost, I think. … Plus, Kris, unlike Taylor, does have the potential to appeal to a contemporary audience, I think. So they can see how to market him.

  196. agathe.hb
    01/20/2010 at 3:26 pm
    “since I am a new lurker here, and a new AI fan, could you explain the stuff about Taylor Hicks? Why would Disney and AI hate him? Did they want somebody else to win?”

    I have watched every season of American Idol, and the only seasons that was totally forgettable to me were season 5 and 6. Both were boring and I was disappointed in both winners. As for Taylor Hicks, I don’t know why all the hate, but I was simply bored with the guy. His music wasn’t interesting and didn’t care much for his personality. Someone else might be able to tell you why Disney and AI hate him. If they wanted someone else to win, I couldn’t tell you. Truthfully, I thought Katherine was just as boring as Taylor and wasn’t much of a fan of hers.

  197. If you watch the VEVO video, you’ll see Kris in a great light–very much his own person and about the music. I like that and others do, too. It’s just a matter of connecting the dots for others to come on board.

    IMO Idol viewers just never connected with him on an emotional level.

    This is why Kris’ promotion and interviews are so important. While the part of the Vevo video where Kris talks about music is engaging, the rest left me wanting more. Kris is a very guarded person, which is fine, but it’s going to be hard to get people to buy his record if they don’t know who he is.

  198. Yeah, I agree with this. He didn’t connect with Idol viewers as well as other winners or even many other alums, apparently, at least when it comes to making people want to buy albums.

    However, as we know, while connecting with Idol viewers does give many Idols a welcome early boost, it’s no guarantee of anything beyond that. And to persist, they have to connect with an additional fan base. …. When it comes to that, I’m not sure that the same qualities that serve you very well as an Idol finalist — such as being a highly engaging interview — are of nearly as much service.

    ITA with everything you said. Kris can find a niche and build an audience based on his music from this point on. If he didn’t get a bigger fanbase from Idol it does not mean the end of his career. The phase is pretty much over IMO. The same with Adam. Now its about how long you can keep yourself in the game, and how well you build on whatever size foundation Idol has given you.

  199. I have to agree with those who are saying that Kris just hasn’t come across in his interviews so well at times. I had said that when I saw him win, his immediate response was to shrink back, almost implying to me anyway that Adam should have won. And when I saw them out afterwards, he seemed to need Adam by his side for support….I felt uneasy for him during this time.
    I am not a big fan of LLYwD but I think if it catches on fire or he puts out a GREAT song, then he will be fine. (and I think that Kris got Danny’s votes after he was eliminated….so I am not too sure of his fan base now that Danny is out there trying to work his way with his music.)

  200. Didn’t they do some auditions in LA this year? I suspect Adam will get a pimpmerical too, maybe Allison will get a nice mention.

    Hmm. I don’t think they will. Neither Adam nor Allison has ever mentioned filming something for it, the way Kris did. Will they be mentioned? maybe.

  201. And to persist, they have to connect with an additional fan base. …. When it comes to that, I’m not sure that the same qualities that serve you very well as an Idol finalist — such as being a highly engaging interview — are of nearly as much service.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that Kris needs to have an emotional connection with mainstream audiences, reporters, etc., but he does need to take every opportunity that he gets to promote himself and his music. He isn’t going to do that with one sentence answers, or by not talking about his music at all. Every interview doesn’t have to be like the Z100 or the one at the station that sponsored the Bosom Ball, but he’s had too many that are like the one that he had with Ryan after LLWD was released.

    If he is going to sale albums or get more promotional opportunities, he has to make the focus be on both him and his music.

  202. ITA with everything you said. Kris can find a niche and build an audience based on his music from this point on. If he didn’t get a bigger fanbase from Idol it does not mean the end of his career. The phase is pretty much over IMO. The same with Adam. Now its about how long you can keep yourself in the game, and how well you build on whatever size foundation Idol has given you.

    I agree, too. I think the sales for LLWD shows this. Right now, it may just be ‘that song’ for some. But if Kris can put out another hit and do just a bit more in promotion, then he becomes ‘that guy with songs on the radio.’ Then people will come to the party. But that’s just my rosy way of looking at things. :-)

  203. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that Kris needs to have an emotional connection with mainstream audiences, reporters, etc., but he does need to take every opportunity that he gets to promote himself and his music.

    Yeah, I agree with you. You’ve gotta promote yourself, one way or another. No getting away from that. Whether you do it by being a fun interview or some other way, you’ve definitely got to do it. And I do think that sometimes Kris seems too diffident about that necessity.

  204. Of course Cook sold better out of the gate than Kris. Saddle David with “No Boundaries”, then a soundalike cover for the first single, take away those extended Idol promos spotlighting David and his music, airing from November until the season premiere, and it’s doubtful he clears anywhere near 800K in album sales before the new year. Not to say that Cook’s ability and charisma had nothing to do with his success, but he benefited from his share of breaks that pretty much went the opposite way for Kris. Considered along with the sizes of their fanbases, it helps explain the huge difference in their album sales.

    I don’t get LLWD as a song for Kris at all, given his life experiences. To me, that’s like if Kellie’s record label had made her sing some bouncy, vaguely sermonesque cover song about growing up without a mother. It seems Kris doesn’t want to discuss that time of his life too much, and that’s fine, but every time I hear LLWD, I just wonder what sort of song he’d write himself about that subject. Maybe it wouldn’t be as radio friendly, but I’m sure it would be more interesting and he’d have a much better emotional connection with it. If he doesn’t want to write that song, fine, and I wouldn’t have thought about it at all or really cared if there were just love songs on the album.

  205. And when I saw them out afterwards, he seemed to need Adam by his side for support….I felt uneasy for him during this time.

    While I understand why someone might get that impression, I think Kris’ behavior is more about him not liking the spotlight, and trying to remain humble. I think that Kris always made a point to let people know that it was all about the ten of them, and to never make it seem like he was better than any of the others. I think as Jim C. wrote one time, he may have been a little too gracious in the way that he let everyone else share the spotlight with him.

    I think that some fans and some people in the media have misinterpreted Kris’ actions, and that this did have an effect on his sales.

    But, as someone said, that chapter is close, and now it’s time for Kris to connect with those outside of the AI base, and those inside of it who will buy his music for the sake of the music.

  206. I have watched every season of American Idol, and the only seasons that was totally forgettable to me were season 5 and 6.

    lol – I think season 5 is still my favorite (although I’m with you on the snoozefest that was Season 6). I’m a fan of Taylor’s voice personally, but outside of that, I thought Taylor (and several other Season 5 contestants) made some damn good TV. I got deep in the bubble that year (it’s also when I discovered mj’s :) ).

    Taylor never got any traction on Radio (nor was he ever going to). So, Kris & Adam both have the advantage of being able to build from here, whereas he really didn’t. And of course, they need to.

  207. Mary102, you are the WISE one :)
    I totally agree with you – those of (us) who wanted to support Adam, are still doing it and having fun on top of that; with Kris, on the other hand, he has exhausted the number of fans he could get from AI. don’t get me wrong, I wish him all the best, really, but he just does not do it for me – no excitement there :(

  208. ITA, SpenserJ!!! I still love Taylor and try and catch his concerts whenever I can. I never leave without a BIG smile on my face. So, so FUN!

  209. Kris, on the other hand, he has exhausted the number of fans he could get from AI

    Honestly? They’ve all done that by now. It’s all about bringing in new fans for all of them at this point.

    And when I saw them out afterwards, he seemed to need Adam by his side for support….I felt uneasy for him during this time.

    What I saw was someone realizing that 9 others had taken the same journey as him–especially so in Adam’s case–so Kris wanted them all to get their due. If anything, I though he was a bit too generous with the deflection at times.

    Maybe that’s it–Kris just needs to be more selfish! I’m kidding, but still. . . *twirls villain mustache*

  210. I’ve read on twitter a lot of guys guiltily admitting they love Kris Allen’s music. That “guilt” definitely due to the IDOL stigma. Not cool.

    I have noticed on Twitter that there are (relatively) many young males listening to Kris’ music. I have checked their accounts quickly and it doesn’t seem that they are either feeling guilty or interested in AI. I think that’s encouraging as these guys – many of them are students – do find Kris credible. And they listen songs from album. BWCU seems to be one of favourites, also Red Guitar is mentioned.

  211. don’t get me wrong, I wish him all the best, really, but he just does not do it for me – no excitement there

    It has always been this way for me. Kris is not very exciting or doesn’t excite people enough to go buy “Kris”. It is becoming clearer to me that he won on other things besides voters loving “him”. Unfortunately, it has made his road harder to travel. MOre work has to be done but I don’t see how one changes their personality. How do you make him exciting to people? Edgy?

  212. you know what gets people to buy music? wait for it, its quite surprising……… the music itself! shocking, right?

    I dont even know the names of the guys from Phoenix but when i heard them at ACL, I automatically liked them and now I purchase their music. love the killers, but brandon flowers is not a charming interview subject IMO..and i barely listen or watch any of his interviews. not interested. Thom Yorke is as exciting as paint drying…yet I am a big RadioHead junkie. idol fans are always quick to point at any small issue and make it into a large matter.

    I just dont think many are influenced by interviews or promos alone…the music has to sell itself. I dont recall once seeing an interview of a new or unknown artist that impressed me that much to go look up his or her music. I have to hear the work.

    so really, Jive should focus on more performing appearances and less interviews…unless they accompany a show.

    also, give kris some street cred, put him in music festivals that cater to musical snobs (coachella, outside lands, etc) and not just kiss FM tweens and moms. ive seen up and coming singers like him at those shows, he could easily fit there if nobody mentioned he won Idol LOL

  213. Of course Cook sold better out of the gate than Kris. Saddle David with “No Boundaries”, then a soundalike cover for the first single, take away those extended Idol promos spotlighting David and his music, airing from November until the season premiere, and it’s doubtful he clears anywhere near 800K in album sales before the new year. Not to say that Cook’s ability and charisma had nothing to do with his success, but he benefited from his share of breaks that pretty much went the opposite way for Kris.

    You make a good point. I’m not sure how *big* the difference would have been, but when you contrast the TOML experience with the No Boundaries experience, TOML clearly helped DC a lot, while NB was nothing but a disaster for Kris, through absolutely no fault of his own.

    (Actually, I thought that both he and Adam did admirable jobs on their studio versions of that awful song — but doing an admirable job of a song that’s at best mediocre, with excruciatingly terrible lyrics and that doesn’t fit your voice or style and is ridiculously hard to sing live, isn’t exactly a great career builder for anybody, unfortunately. Kris definitely was on the losing end of some circumstances.)

  214. Kris, on the other hand, he has exhausted the number of fans he could get from AI

    I think that the media attention that Adam has received has introduced him to people beyond just the AI fan base, but either way, Kris, Adam, and every other AI alum would be in a lot of trouble if they had to rely solely on their AI fan base.

  215. Viewers just never got a chance to develop an emotional connection with him.

    and yet they felt connected enough to him to vote for him and give him the win. Too me that is very connected…sorry.

  216. It has always been this way for me. Kris is not very exciting or doesn’t excite people enough to go buy “Kris”. It is becoming clearer to me that he won on other things besides voters loving “him”. Unfortunately, it has made his road harder to travel. MOre work has to be done but I don’t see how one changes their personality. How do you make him exciting to people? Edgy?

    alaadam, I totally agree with you – I like Kris, but I don’t feel the need to follow his every step and move – like I am compelled to follow Adam – I wish I would be more supportive of Kris – he seems like a genuinely nice guy, but my heart is all set on Adam, SORRY :)

  217. I dont even know the names of the guys from Phoenix but when i heard them at ACL, I automatically liked them and now I purchase their music. love the killers, but brandon flowers is not a charming interview subject IMO..and i barely listen or watch any of his interviews. not interested. Thom Yorke is as exciting as paint drying…yet I am a big RadioHead junkie. idol fans are always quick to point at any small issue and make it into a large matter.

    In this whole paragraph, you refer to these artists by name and you also tell us some things about them. The point is that even if you haven’t noticed it, you do know things about these people, and you know enough about them that you don’t have to refer to them just based on their music.

    Without the interviews, people won’t know who Kris Allen is or that he sings LLWD. People don’t buy the album that has a certain song on it, they buy Kris Allen’s album. People aren’t going to connect an artists to his or her songs if they don’t have some familiarity with the artist, and that’s what interviews and other promotion do.

  218. It has always been this way for me. Kris is not very exciting or doesn’t excite people enough to go buy “Kris”. It is becoming clearer to me that he won on other things besides voters loving “him”. Unfortunately, it has made his road harder to travel.

    he must be doing something right if people are buying his gold single, top 10, 20 whatever chart tune. a single making it big prior to the album is not new in the music world. it happens. if his’ next single is also well received, you will see a continuing (small) rise in his album sales and eventually the album will also be considered a “hit”….it just takes different artists different paths to achieve “success”.

    and lets be real, typically artists like kris aren’t flashy enough to spark a mass frenzy at the record store. “umm, sorry sir, please get your manager right away, I MUST have the new matt kearny CD. i just MUST”

    BTW, newsflash, every Idol has won based on MULTIPLE reasons. every contestant receives votes based on multiple reasons. that’s the way the show works, that’s the way our brains and hearts work. its not a kris or season 8 phenomenon.

  219. In this whole paragraph, you refer to these artists by name and you also tell us some things about them. The point is that even if you haven’t noticed it, you do know things about these people, and you know enough about them that you don’t have to refer to them just based on their music

    after X amount of years, i now know B Flower’s name because the killers have become one of my favorite bands and I attend a lot of their shows.

    point is/was, that in the begining, i had no idea what the F he was named, and I didnt care. Now, Ive been a fan for over 5 yrs, it would be embarassing if I didnt.

  220. a

    nd yet they felt connected enough to him to vote for him and give him the win. Too me that is very connected…sorry.

    Never in the history of the show have the majority of people who voted then turned around and bought the album of the person who they voted for. Voting has never equaled buying the record. I think there was a connection with Kris, but I agree with someone else who said that because of his lack of screen time, that the connection wasn’t as strong as it usually is. And I would add to that, that since the connection wasn’t as strong several factors, including the negative media attention, misconstruing Kris’ humility as a sign that he didn’t believe that he should have won, as well as Kris not promoting himself very well, contributed to the ties that people felt with Kris not lasting long.

    Kris’ storyline during the season was very good, but the way that it has been handled since the season ended by 19, the media, and even Kris has resulted in people really not feeling sentimental about him, and really blurring what happened last season.

  221. How do you make him exciting to people?

    1. Crash his new Ford Fusion into a tree while Katy chases him around with a golf club.

    2. Show up at the Grammys, bum-rush the stage and scream “I think y’ll great and I’mma let ya finish, but LLWD is for the CHILDREN!” Be Kanye and ODB at the same time, baby!

    3. Stumble out of a limo drunk out of his head while wearing no pants or underwear.

    4. Chase a paparazzo while brandishing an umbrella.

    5. Wear a catsuit. If works for Beyonce and J-Lo!

    6. Do his own version of “2 Girls, 1 Cup” with Adam. Call it “2 Idols, 1 Coke Bottle.”

    Kris needs to call me. I can make him edgy by the end of the week! ;-)

  222. LaRue, Kris doesn’t have to do any of those things. He just has to let people know that he sings this great song LLWD, that he’s proud of it, and how much music means to him. These are things that people will relate to.

  223. Without the interviews, people won’t know who Kris Allen is or that he sings LLWD. People don’t buy the album that has a certain song on it, they buy Kris Allen’s album. People aren’t going to connect an artists to his or her songs if they don’t have some familiarity with the artist, and that’s what interviews and other promotion do.

    yes, promos are great and needed…but stating (not you, others) that kris isnt exciting or likeable in interviews, and thats the reason people arent buying his music is an extremely limited way of thinking.

    if life, people, marketing etc was that easy.

  224. I don’t think he really need more interviews, because that is not his forte. I think he need one of those moments like Adam had yesterday. His chance will come when he get’s to perform on American Idol again. He will be touted all week as the American Idol with a gold single. He will perform in front of millions of people in t.vland and probably be presented with his gold certification for LLWD. He should get a big boost from that performance, both for the single and his album.

  225. 3. Stumble out of a limo drunk out of his head while wearing no pants or underwear.

    That idea is made of pure win sauce!

  226. LaRue, Kris doesn’t have to do any of those things. He just has to let people know that he sings this great song LLWD, that he’s proud of it, and how much music means to him. These are things that people will relate to.

    I was joking.

  227. I disagree with the bolded part. I don’t think Kris has done anything wrong in regards to promoting himself. Jive/19 seems to have dropped the ball a few times, but not too badly.

    I don’t see how Jive/19 has dropped the ball with promoting Kris. He’s been given tons of opportunties and he works hard promoting himself via interviews and Jingle Balls and I gather he has an other Ball coming up soon. Not a Jingle one of course, some Valentines inspired/themed thing. And all the on-the-ground, slow-steady work paid off for Kris with the adds and later airplay and later great single sales. Macaroni art, but it was always what I wanted for Adam and note that they later tried to do some of the same things for Adam as Jive was doing for Kris.

    I think Jive has done their normal good job of selling a single, but not sure where the disconnect with album sales, except that like most new artists, people are going to want another single they’ve heard/liked before they buy his album. Same thing happened to Jordin, though her singles were bigger, and so they might have moved her album sales faster. And she had a monster hit with No Air after the pretty good hit of Tattoo, so that definitely helped. But even then, it took her a while to sell her album to the degree that it ulimately did.

  228. after X amount of years, i now know B Flower’s name because the killers have become one of my favorite bands and I attend a lot of their shows.

    But, you knew who the Killers were so that you could identify them when you heard their music on the radio and check out their other music. You knew the name of the band and enough about them to go to their concerts (I think that you said that you went to the concerts, if not forgive my mistake.)

    My point is that there is still a connection between people and artists. It is important that people know that Kris sings LLWD, without knowing that there is no way that the success of LLWD will result in album sales. Without knowing that, there is no way that people will check out more of his music or attend his concerts. That’s why it takes more than one song for people to really take notice enough to remember an artist’s name, and one thing that helps them remember is seeing the artists be visible via interviews and other promotional events. That’s why these types of things are so important to artists, and why they know they have to do them. John Mayer isn’t on the cover of RS with no shirt on for nothing.

  229. and lets be real, typically artists like kris aren’t flashy enough to spark a mass frenzy at the record store. “umm, sorry sir, please get your manager right away, I MUST have the new matt kearny CD. i just MUST”

    ding ding ding…we have a winner. this to me is the real reason kris’ album is not selling like gangbusters….with a few rare exceptions, the albums in his genre are modest sellers….if lucky, they will generate a modest hit or two, but they are not blockbusters (occasionally something catches the public interest like the first Norah Jones album, or John Mayer). You can have a terrific career with albums like these, the occasional hit, and frequent touring. This is what I think will happen with Kris. He is never going to be a “star” (IMO) but will be a working musician and a viable recording artist. Many artists would give their left arm for this type of career.

  230. LaRue, Kris doesn’t have to do any of those things. He just has to let people know that he sings this great song LLWD, that he’s proud of it, and how much music means to him. These are things that people will relate to.

    I know you were joking, I was just pointing out that all Kris needs to do is let people know who he is, that he exists, and that he is passionate about music.

    He doesn’t need to be over the top, change his personality, do anything crazy, or stop being humble.

  231. with Kris, on the other hand, he has exhausted the number of fans he could get from AI.

    This is probably not true. I didn’t see the episode on which Daughtry debuted No Surprise, but I do remember hopping on iTunes a day or two after and LMAO at the rebound of DTA. The thing had been out for three and a half years. The songs had been played on the radio for forever. And yet, showing up on AI was a trigger that made people finally, after all that time, and after all the attention paid to what a huge debut it was, actually go out and purchase it.

    I’m not saying that KA will tap that kind of well; part of the equation is that people already knew a lot of songs from DTA by that time.

    But if he puts out another solid single, and if the performance on AI goes well, then I’m fairly certain that some of those 20+ million viewers will rouse themselves and buy the album. It may only be a few thousand, it may be tens of. But that audience is never entirely exhausted.

  232. ding ding ding…we have a winner. this to me is the real reason kris’ album is not selling like gangbusters….with a few rare exceptions, the albums in his genre are modest sellers….if lucky, they will generate a modest hit or two, but they are not blockbusters (occasionally something catches the public interest like the first Norah Jones album, or John Mayer). You can have a terrific career with albums like these, the occasional hit, and frequent touring. This is what I think will happen with Kris. He is never going to be a “star” (IMO) but will be a working musician and a viable recording artist. Many artists would give their left arm for this type of career.

    Even with this type of career, people need to know who Kris is, if he expects people to see him tour.

    BTW, I don’t think that Kris is a Matt Kearney or Norah Jones type artist, and I believe he has several radio friendly songs on his album. To me, he is a pop/rock artist.

  233. Bubbling Under Hot 100

    LW-TW
    10-05 Didn’t You Know How Much I Loved You – Kellie Pickler

  234. mimi
    01/20/2010 at 2:52 pm
    “Even if we totally ignore these two variables, Adam’s album numbers are still in line with Archies. Kris’ and Cook’s numbers are MILES APART! It’s not that season 8 viewers are uninterested in the guys from season 8, they are uninterested in the winner.”

    Actually IMO this doesn’t make sense. Adam has had A LOT more exposure than Archie ever did, probably more than most Idol winners have had as well. We shouldn’t look at album sales without some perspective on that.

    All of the Adam-related media is because people are interested in him. From the Rolling Stone article to today’s LIFE celebrity profile to the feature in South Africa’s “heat” magazine, the media covers Adam because he sells magazines and generates online traffic.

    That said, the strategy for launching Adam has been a bit different than for other Idol alums — but I think that is because Adam, and is goals, are not that much like any of the past Idol alums.

    But Archie has a huge lead single for his album and a ton of radio. Archie’s, Jordin’s and Kris’ launch have been similar — lots of focus on building a strong single and less focus initially on the album. In Archie’s case, the strategy worked and he sold a lot of albums, too. Jordin has done fine with album sales but it was very slow and stready sales that just added up. JMHO but I don’t think you can judge an album on less than 3 months sales.

    Adam’s launch has been more focused on establishing Adam as a celebrity personality first and then conversting that fame into record sales. So far it seems to be working, but only time will tell if this was a good strategy.

    Bottom line — Adam has sold 457K albums in the US and that is not because he was on the cover of Rolling Stone or makes the gossip columns — it is because a lot of people liked the music and Adam enough to buy it rather than steal it.

  235. To play devil’s advocate, how many straight young males are buying Adam’s album? It’s not just Kris trying to reach that demographic.

  236. Cook won. Adam didn’t.

    Adam and Archie (the two runners-up) are comparable.

    I don’t think much of this kind of argument. Adam was given the winner treatment, in fact, I’d say he was given the superstar-to-be treatment. David Cook, let alone David Archuleta, never had the kind of publicity that Adam gets. Come to think of it, did any Idol winner get the kind of treatment Adam gets? (I’m curious, anyone can clarify that?) Personally, I think if Archie’s second single had been another big hit like Crush (not saying that there is one in his album though, even if I think that the wrong song was chosen), he’d be on his way to be the King of digital downloads the way Jordin is the Queen of downloads, not to mention a platinum album that outsell David Cook’s. I never understood why they didn’t release a third single for Archie though.

    I think the bump in sales is disappointing whichever way that is spun, perhaps they’ll do better promotion on Idol for both Kris and Adam on future episodes.

    The one thing worth commenting on about the chart is the number 1 album by Vampire Weekend. I thought the American rock music on the chart has been rather dire for a while now, so perhaps there is still hope.

  237. The one thing worth commenting on about the chart is the number 1 album by Vampire Weekend. I thought the American rock music on the chart has been rather dire for a while now, so perhaps there is still hope.

    Yes, yes, yes! I was pleased to see that up there. Yay for differentiation!

  238. I think Jive has done their normal good job of selling a single, but not sure where the disconnect with album sales, except that like most new artists, people are going to want another single they’ve heard/liked before they buy his album. Same thing happened to Jordin, though her singles were bigger, and so they might have moved her album sales faster.

    I think Jive has done a fine job. Kris had the usual winner’s appearances and sang in front of hundreds of thousands of people at the Jingle Bell Balls. He is not a new artist. Kris sang in front of millions of viewers for 12 weeks. He performed at 52 concerts with near capacity crowds over the summer. He performed at the Disney Christmas parade. He has been on Regis, Conan, Fallon, The View, Ellen, Letterman, etc.
    Kris has had interviews, promotions, and appearances that new artists would kill for. For some reason, he has not capitalized on these opportunities.
    Jordin was doing MUCH BETTER than Kris is at this time, in both single and album sales. I believe she had a gold album and a platinum single by this time.

  239. yes, promos are great and needed…but stating (not you, others) that kris isnt exciting or likeable in interviews, and thats the reason people arent buying his music is an extremely limited way of thinking.

    if life, people, marketing etc was that easy.

    I think Kris is likable in interviews. But I do not get that excited by Kris’ music and performances — and that is what really sells albums.

    I am a big fan of AIS and SWHFTM from Idol — but I do not hear much of that Kris on his album. Hopefully, the more stripped down, less produced Kris Allen will be on album #2. Right after Idol was over — Today Show and CBS Early Show, Kris was great live. But I haven’t see that fun, playful Kris in the most recent performances. Maybe he just needs a break.

  240. But, you knew who the Killers were so that you could identify them when you heard their music on the radio and check out their other music. You knew the name of the band and enough about them to go to their concerts (I think that you said that you went to the concerts, if not forgive my mistake.)

    no, for a long time i didnt know who they were……i heard them once at house party, then through a friend. it took a while for me to realize which song was theirs. by the time mainstream radio started to play them, i found out their band name. thus why would i expect a guy like kris who just came out with a cd in November to have the same name recognition in January. seriously. it takes a while for that to build. promos help, yes. but i dont think interviews alone without the music does much good. music sells music.

  241. Bottom line — Adam has sold 457K albums in the US and that is not because he was on the cover of Rolling Stone or makes the gossip columns — it is because a lot of people liked the music and Adam enough to buy it rather than steal it.

    Adam’s promotion has been a lot more than Rolling Stone and gossip columns. Also, I don’t think there is enough evidence to support that his album sales mean that he has signficantly reached beyond his large fanbase. I thought they were following the typical post-Idol pattern. Although, given all the ongoing promotion he has had– they probably shouldn’t be following the typical path.

  242. I think Kris is likable in interviews. But I do not get that excited by Kris’ music and performances — and that is what really sells albums.

    exactly, if you just dont like his music or perfomance style, then you wont buy the music. its not his interviewing skills. now, if we are talking about performance style, then thats a different story. but harping on his interviewing skills is meaningless, as it doesnt really matter much in the long run, big picture.

    example: daughtry was supposed to be cocky and conceited, yet his albums sell, big time. his interviewing skills did hurt him much LOL

  243. Hazehel
    01/20/2010 at 5:12 pm
    Cook won. Adam didn’t.

    Adam and Archie (the two runners-up) are comparable.

    I don’t think much of this kind of argument. Adam was given the winner treatment, in fact, I’d say he was given the superstar-to-be treatment. David Cook, let alone David Archuleta, never had the kind of publicity that Adam gets, and come to think of it, did any Idol winner get the kind of treatment Adam gets? (I’m curious, anyone can clarify that?) Personally, I think if Archie’s second single had been another big hit like Crush (not saying that there is one in his album though, even if I think that the wrong song was chosen), he’d be on his way to be the King of digital downloads the way Jordin is the Queen of downloads, not to mention a platinum album that’d outsell David Cook. I never understood why they never released a third single for Archie though.

    I totally agree. Adam was treated as the “rightful winner”. The media jumped on that the minute the finale was over. Contraversy sells (and that is a crying shame). None of the other “idol” winner or not had the hype that Adam has had. To some he may be more exciting but to me it’s about the music. His brand has been being a celibrity first with the music second. Kris (and DC also) are about the music and not so much the hype. The media loves gossip and when there is none, the lose interest fast. That is why the music industry today pretty much sucks. It’s not the music but who can one-up the next guy and get the hype. JMO

  244. Jordin was doing MUCH BETTER than Kris is at this time, in both single and album sales. I believe she had a gold album and a platinum single by this time.

    guess what? it doesn’t matter, its 2010, not 2008. different market, different game. and LOL at kris not being a new artist. singing karaoke doesn’t mean you have experience, it just means you were exposed to a certain niche market. regardless of how many weeks we was on idol and how many concerts he performed at, it was still the same market. the idol concert goer is the idol watcher. he didn’t have exposure to much else.

  245. None of the other “idol” winner or not had the hype that Adam has had.

    David Cook, let alone David Archuleta, never had the kind of publicity that Adam gets, and come to think of it, did any Idol winner get the kind of treatment Adam gets? (I’m curious, anyone can clarify that?)

    DAVID COOK PERFORMANCES (TV/Online for Nov/Dec 2008) *listed by song

    Bar-Ba-Sol:
    AOL Sessions
    Wal-Mart Soundcheck

    Deck the Halls:
    GMA

    Declaration:
    AMA Red Carpet
    AOL Sessions
    GMA
    Kimmel
    SNL
    Wal-Mart Soundcheck

    Happy Christmas (War is Over):
    Rockefeller Tree Lighting

    Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas:
    Disney Christmas Parade
    Rockefeller Tree Lighting

    Heroes:
    AOL Sessions

    Lie:
    AOL Sessions
    Wal-Mart Soundcheck

    Life on the Moon:
    Sirius Radio

    Light On:
    AOL Sessions
    AMA Red Carpet
    Ellen
    ET
    GMA
    Leno
    FOX NYE
    Q100 Atlanta
    Regis & Kelly
    Sirius Radio
    SNL
    Vh1
    Wal-Mart Soundcheck
    WPLJ

    ADAM LAMBERT PERFORMANCES (TV/Online for Nov/Dec 2009) *listed by song

    For Your Entertainment:
    AMA’s

    Music Again
    Early Show

    Whataya Want From Me
    Early Show
    Ellen
    Conan
    Leno
    Letterman
    So You Think You Can Dance
    The View

    * Adam and David were both on Oprah.(When was David’s appearance?) David was on SNL. David also played at several Jingle Bell Balls and on network TV for New Years Eve. David also had the usual post idol appearances (Leno, Ellen, The View, Disney Parade,etc.) that all winners get. Also, the “pimpmercial” that everyone keeps referring to during the first week of the auditions.
    They all have opportunities. It’s how you embrace and capitalize on these opportunities that makes a difference.

  246. Reading this thread makes my head hurt. I think Kris is doing fine. I have no worries.

  247. I don’t think much of this kind of argument. Adam was given the winner treatment, in fact, I’d say he was given the superstar-to-be treatment. David Cook, let alone David Archuleta, never had the kind of publicity that Adam gets. Come to think of it, did any Idol winner get the kind of treatment Adam gets? (I’m curious, anyone can clarify that?)

    Kris got every one of the Idol winner’s appearances and a ton of press after Idol. I cannot find one major difference between Kris and Cook until after Kris’ album was released. Cook had a hit album and single — and he got some huge promo opportunities including SNL. Kris didn’t have a hit album, and LLWD took a long to to move up the charts. So Kris did not seem to get the same kind of opportunities in Nov and Dec.

    Forget about Adam — in comparing Kris to David Cook, Kris has not been about to demonstrate that he drive online clicks, sell magazine or attract TV viewers. Cook did, and he got more promotional opportunities.

    Adam, on the other hand, did not get any winner’s treatment after Idol. He wasn’t even on a late night or daytime talk show. He got the same AM TV coverage that Archie got. Plus he appeared on Ellen by phone. He was almost completely off TV and interviews from the end of Idol until Nov 2009 except to promote the Idols Live Tour.

    Adam gets a lot of press but most of those opportunities have nothing to do with Idol or 19 — they are because Adam is a media magnet. Adam now has about 20 paparazzi following him everywhere. He went out in LA last night and there were dozens of tweets about “Adam sightings”. I think Life Mag nailed it when they wrote this about Adam [1/20/10]:

    He makes for an unlikely pop idol for mainstream America — after all, he’s glam, he’s unapologetic, and he’s openly gay — but the onetime American Idol runner-up is the biggest thing to come out of the eighth season of the talent competition, and is well on the path to true superstardom.

    Adam and Kris are completely different — and the success of one will not come at the expense of the other. And I still say, do not write off either Kris or Adam.

  248. Jordin was doing MUCH BETTER than Kris is at this time, in both single and album sales. I believe she had a gold album and a platinum single by this time.

    guess what? it doesn’t matter, its 2010, not 2008.

    It matters if people keep saying Jordin sold like Kris is selling. I liked her, but I am not an invested fan. I’m thinking that it would matter to Jordin’s fans if there are comments discounting her accomplishments. She may not have sold as well as Cook but she sure as hell didn’t do as poorly as Kris is doing.

  249. Jordin was doing MUCH BETTER than Kris is at this time, in both single and album sales. I believe she had a gold album and a platinum single by this time.

    guess what? it doesn’t matter, its 2010, not 2008. different market, different game.

    Yes, but what if we compare their relative ranking within the BB200? Yes, sales have slid quite a bit since Jordin’s debut so that would not be a fair comparison, but the better question may be whether Jordin was sinking out of the BB100 like Kris is at this point, or whether she floating around the 50s, 60s or so? Even if the raw number of albums sold is not the proper basis of comparisons, BB rankings should help contextualize their albums’ performance within the general sales environment.

  250. Kris got every one of the Idol winner’s appearances and a ton of press after Idol. I cannot find one major difference between Kris and Cook until after Kris’ album was released. Cook had a hit album and single — and he got some huge promo opportunities including SNL. Kris didn’t have a hit album, and LLWD took a long to to move up the charts. So Kris did not seem to get the same kind of opportunities in Nov and Dec.

    You know, this site’s archives are EXTREMELY easy to use. If you want to go to a specific month, say November of two years ago, you can type:
    mjsbigblog.wpengine.com/2008/11

    It’s quite easy to determine when David Cook was on SNL and that was prior to his album being released. He appeared on SNL on Nov 1st and his hit album was released Nov 18th. More than two weeks later. Why is this important?

    So, Cook’s hit album did not contribute to him getting the SNL gig. So, the theory that Kris didn’t get the gig because his album was a flop doesn’t hold an ounce of water.

    Research. It is your friend.

  251. Jordin indeed was floating around the 40’s. I’ll dig up the graph I have of the BB200 ranks/sales but I checked her position last week for that week in 2008 and she was #48 and I know she got a nice boost Idol premiere week.

  252. Kris got every one of the Idol winner’s appearances and a ton of press after Idol. I cannot find one major difference between Kris and Cook until after Kris’ album was released.

    Q3, you’re forgetting a detail about the “ton of press” … it has in it for the most part a flavor that he wasn’t a deserving idol and that Adam should have won. So explain to me how that could have help him to sell his album

  253. Reading this thread makes my head hurt. I think Kris is doing fine. I have no worries.

    Maggels, I’m with you on both counts.

    And Kirsten, I loved your last post.

  254. I totally agree. Adam was treated as the “rightful winner”. The media jumped on that the minute the finale was over.

    I tend to agree. Adam has not been treated like a runner-up, so I’m not sure why the fact that he didn’t win and Cook did really matters. Kris has been (for the most part) overshadowed in the wake of all of the Adam Lambert hype and publicity. I’m not complaining about it (I really don’t have a dog in this fight), but it’s just a fact. Adam and Kris have not had the same type of promotional opportunities. I don’t think Kris has been shortchanged in that department, but what he’s had so far does not compare to being featured prominently on Oprah or getting a performance slot on the AMAs. Some past winners have never had the opportunity to perform on the AMAs immediately following their seasons, so again, where Adam placed in the competition obviously doesn’t matter. Lambert has had the lion’s share of the publicity and buzz since the finale-not Kris. With that in mind, is it really all that surprising that his album has outsold Kris’? Given the hype and pimpage, I would have expected Lambert to crush Kris in both single and album sales Daughtry-style (which hasn’t happened). The usual reply is “Well, Kris won, so he’s expected to outsell everyone else in his season”. It’s not that simple, and it’s not like there isn’t a precedent for Idol winners being outsold by the also-rans (Season 2 & Season 5). Taylor beat Kat in a landslide, but the 4th and 6th place finishers outsold him. Votes don’t always translate to album sales, and not everyone who casts a vote during the Idol competition is going to be invested enough to fork over $10 for an album.

    Kris has always done things a bit quietly, so it’s not surprising that he hasn’t made a big splash saleswise so far. He’s going to have to do things the old-fashioned way-he can’t depend on Idol pimpage for a boost. His current single is still chugging along nicely, and I don’t think he’s in any danger of not getting a second single. As long as his album sales don’t completely fall off a cliff like Taylor’s, I think he’ll be OK. He might sell in small numbers week to week, but if the sales remain steady and consistent, he’ll be fine.

    As far as Idol bloggers and their biases, where is it written that Idol bloggers have to be impartial? Brian Mansfield is not required to be an Adam Lambert fan, nor is he required to spin every article in Adam’s favor.

  255. hi everyone, de-lurking here. Kirsten, I earn my living doing research. so I say, “you go, girl” with those mad research skillz :)

    i just listened to LLWD and “Heartless” (original) on my commute home from the office and I was reminded, as I am daily, why I like Kris. As apparently 619,999 (and counting) other people do as well. The album sales will come…I am absolutely sure of it. I am happy and thrilled with his success so far. This album isn’t done yet–IMHO it hasn’t even started yet. Just like LLWD, it will be the album that could.

  256. He was almost completely off TV and interviews from the end of Idol until Nov 2009 except to promote the Idols Live Tour.

    Wait, I know I didn’t follow Kris’ and Adam’s appearances after the end of Idol, but are you telling me that Adam didn’t do the rounds with GMA, the View, MTV, etc., with Kris after Idol? Because Cook and Archie did so much press/promo together after Idol (GMA, the View, MTV, Early Show, etc.) that a few Cook fans were angsting (what else is new?) that TPTB had not let go of their Archie as the Chosen One scenario and that Cook would be Taylored. ETA: Are you telling me that Kris got more solo promo opportunities than Cook?

  257. DAVID COOK PERFORMANCES (TV/Online for Nov/Dec 2008) *listed by song

    Deck the Halls:
    GMA

    What on earth is that?

    I don’t know what you aim to show with that list, the apparently long list of David Cook is nothing like comparable to Adam. A pre-show performance on AMA is not the closing performance, the Oprah one was part of the celebration of Olympians, certainly not the long interview Adam had with Oprah, etc. I’m almost incline to say the list is dishonest in adding performances on things like radio and VH1 for David Cook while utterly ignoring them for Adam, not to mention failing to add things like RS magazine.

  258. but are you telling me that Adam didn’t do the rounds with GMA, the View, MTV, etc., with Kris after Idol?

    the week after the finale adam was on the today show(w/kris), the early show, good day ny, and regis & kelly and also did some additional press stuff with Kris…i assume the poster was referring to Kris’ appearances on ellen, the tonight show etc. that Adam did not get at the time…kris, adam and cook all did a GMA concert together in August.

  259. “I think Kris is likable in interviews. But I do not get that excited by Kris’ music and performances — and that is what really sells albums.

    I am a big fan of AIS and SWHFTM from Idol — but I do not hear much of that Kris on his album. Hopefully, the more stripped down, less produced Kris Allen will be on album #2. Right after Idol was over — Today Show and CBS Early Show, Kris was great live. But I haven’t see that fun, playful Kris in the most recent performances. Maybe he just needs a break.”

    Its funny how people can have different perceptions . You see I think Kris has been more playful & better live more recently than he was in the beginning- especially when he’s singing with the band!! Some of his Jingle Balls were really fun & he gelled with the audience really well. Understandably- not being a Kris fan per se – you may not have seen all his performances!!
    The only performance that might have been a bit lack lustre recently was a very early morning radio performance – which is quite common amongst musicians.
    To me , the more people see Kris performing – the more they will connect with his music if that’s the style they like, as his musicianship & passion for music really show through!! This may not always mean he is bouncing around the stage – that’s the beauty of Kris – the variety of styles he can sing.He was asked to come back & sing at BB Kings with just him & Cale – a more stripped down acoustic set- but not any less effective!!
    However I understand Kris’s music is not liked by everyone just as Adam’s style is not liked by everyone. I do believe both of them though increase their music’s effectiveness with their “Live” performances!!

    “Just like LLWD, it will be the album that could.”

    I agree totally Dezzie & thank you for your positive post after all the doom & gloom comparisons!!

    I also thank you Kirsten for keeping us alerted to the “Facts” rather than just vague impressions!!

  260. I think things are really looking good recently for Kris and Adam saleswise. LLWD went gold and looks like it will go platinum for sure. Kris did an amazing job co-writing most of his albums songs. Adam’s WWFM is getting more radio play and seems like it could do well and he is close to having a Gold Album.

  261. no, for a long time i didnt know who they were……i heard them once at house party, then through a friend. it took a while for me to realize which song was theirs. by the time mainstream radio started to play them, i found out their band name. thus why would i expect a guy like kris who just came out with a cd in November to have the same name recognition in January. seriously. it takes a while for that to build. promos help, yes. but i dont think interviews alone without the music does much good. music sells music.

    Of course, I agree with all of this. But, a big difference is that Kris has had the opportunity to make people aware of who he is. He hasn’t had all of the interviews that Adam has, but he has had them, and on too many occasions, I’ve felt like he’s failed to promote himself or his music.

    It’s not the end, and Kris isn’t doomed. But, I’ll admit that I’m worried a little, because we are going to get to the point where the interviews that he’s going to get because he’s the AI Champion will end. And as much as the most important thing is the music, it’s not the only thing. I have a feeling that more PDs would be playing LLWD, given how it’s done in sales, if Kris was more in demand, and was getting more media attention. If you don’t believe me, then ask yourself why did Jive mention Kris TV appearances on the banners that they took out on AllAccess.com and another industry site, or why did his management list this same information on HDD.

  262. Wait, I know I didn’t follow Kris’ and Adam’s appearances after the end of Idol, but are you telling me that Adam didn’t do the rounds with GMA, the View, MTV, etc., with Kris after Idol? Because Cook and Archie did so much press/promo together after Idol (GMA, the View, MTV, Early Show, etc.) that a few Cook fans were angsting (what else is new?)

    She added the caveat in a previous point that Adam got what Archie got last year, namely the morning shows and typical runner-up appearances. But nothing on TV beyond that, that was associated with Idol. His other TV appearances were stuff associated with 2012 stuff on like ET, or stuff relating to the Details shoot. But little music promotion, beyong some TfM MV stuff on things like Access Hollywood.

    I will not speak to the larger points beyond that, not my post or point.

    Jordin indeed was floating around the 40’s. I’ll dig up the graph I have of the BB200 ranks/sales but I checked her position last week for that week in 2008 and she was #48 and I know she got a nice boost Idol premiere week.

    Thanks and the Idol boost! Oh wait, wasn’t that just radio play? ;)

  263. So much squabbling over the middling idols lol, I’m surprised people aren’t talking about ANOTHER platinum single for Carrie! Yay!! I just have to laugh because it reminds me how people recently were referring to her as an “album artist”, not a “singles artist”. LOL.

  264. nyc
    01/20/2010 at 5:52 pm
    It matters if people keep saying Jordin sold like Kris is selling. I liked her, but I am not an invested fan. I’m thinking that it would matter to Jordin’s fans if there are comments discounting her accomplishments. She may not have sold as well as Cook but she sure as hell didn’t do as poorly as Kris is doing

    in the end, she sold more (albums + singles) overall. don’t really get this “gangbusters out of the gate” mentality.

    and carrie really is keeping the proverbial sinking idol ship afloat. the girl is set.

  265. I don’t think much of this kind of argument. Adam was given the winner treatment, in fact, I’d say he was given the superstar-to-be treatment. David Cook, let alone David Archuleta, never had the kind of publicity that Adam gets. Come to think of it, did any Idol winner get the kind of treatment Adam gets? (I’m curious, anyone can clarify that?)

    Adam’s team fucked up a lot though. With the late release of FYE, the super late release of the video, the lack of radio promo, and the basically betting everything on TFM and the AMAs (which both failed…bad bets), I would say that there was plenty wrong with Adam’s rollout. It was actually quite frustrating to watch.

    I’m sure they meant to give the best rollout to Adam, they sure seem to have spent a lot on the album, but it didn’t really work out because of the mistakes made. I mean, sure he was in a lot of gossip mags, but so’s Lindsay Lohan. Gossip mags don’t translate to album sales.

    So based on that I’d agree that Adam hasn’t really penetrated the market past his AI fanbase yet. WWFM seems to be doing that a little, but it’s hardly crazy successful. It’s doing the slow climb.

  266. Yes, but what if we compare their relative ranking within the BB200? Yes, sales have slid quite a bit since Jordin’s debut so that would not be a fair comparison, but the better question may be whether Jordin was sinking out of the BB100 like Kris is at this point, or whether she floating around the 50s, 60s or so? Even if the raw number of albums sold is not the proper basis of comparisons, BB rankings should help contextualize their albums’ performance within the general sales environment.

    Actually, I disagree with this view. Billboard ranking are also based on what the competition is like in a given period. November 2009 had a ton of huge releases — 11/22 and 11/23 releases were unprecedented in the number of major releases. Plus, there were an unprecendented number of reissues of classics and gift greatest hits albums in November 2009.

    For example, Jordin’s latest album, “Battlefield”, was released in July 2009 and it debuted/peaked at #7 on the Billboard 200 [US] with only 48,000 units sold. So chart position is great but sales units are not impressive. Kris’s album album sold over 80,000 copies in its first week, but only debuted at #11 on the Billboard 200.

    I would suggest comparing year 1 sales of debut albums — adjusted for the decline in album sales units total for the year.

    Specifically regarding Jordin Sparks, her debut album has sold over 2 million worldwide, produced 4 Top 10 hits and was certified Platinum in the US about 1 year after release. I do not think Kris can come close to those numbers –even adjusted for the current market.

    If there is a winner that Kris has a real shot of beating in sales, it is Taylor Hicks particularly if you adjust sales to the current market:

    Millions of albums sold in the US:
    2005 654 units sold
    2009 373.9 units sold -43% since 2005

    Taylor Hicks 704,000 units sold
    Taylor Hicks adjusted to current market 402,486 in 2009 units

    Fact is, I do not think that you can measure an artist’s success by looking only at music sales units. At the end of the day, the record label will determine if the album was a financial success and if they want to release another album. They will look at more than sales units to define success — there is publishing revenue, licensing, ring tone sales, touring and a number of other revenue stream vs. the cost to produce and promote the album. Over half the profit contribution from a major label album now comes from things other than traditional music sales [CD and Digital]. And even on music sales the price of the item sold matters — 1 unit sold at $6.99 [Ke$hia iTunes album] is not equal to 1 unit sold a $13.99 [Adam deluxe iTunes album].

  267. Wait, I know I didn’t follow Kris’ and Adam’s appearances after the end of Idol, but are you telling me that Adam didn’t do the rounds with GMA, the View, MTV, etc., with Kris after Idol?

    I do know that Kris, Adam and Cook did the GMA summer series DURING the tour. Adam and Kris were on one morning show together and then another morning show separately. I do believe they both did songs and short interviews on The View and Regis.
    (And no, I’m not going to research through this blog site. It’s hard enough to keep the page I’m on acting right these days. I’ve tried to go back and it is an EXTREMELY SLOW process. Research may be “your friend”, but it’s not easy to do on this site. I love mjs as a blog site, but it doesn’t lend itself to an enjoyable research site. It’s just not that easy.)
    Kris performed on Ellen, the Disney parade, Leno, Fallon, the Ford concert and MTV as the winner of AI. Kris was scheduled to be on Conan, but he had a death in his family. That appearance went to Allison. Adam was not given any of these opportunities.
    I could be wrong about one or two appearances or I could have forgotten something. But, Kris did get the usual AI “winner’s treatment”.

  268. To some he may be more exciting but to me it’s about the music.

    Adam, luckily for his fans, is both exciting and about the music. :-)
    The two are not mutually exclusive.
    Adam is so dang musical; how can anyone say he is not about the music? He has only been emersed in music since he was a kid .

  269. Kirsten
    01/20/2010 at 6:00 pm

    Kris got every one of the Idol winner’s appearances and a ton of press after Idol. I cannot find one major difference between Kris and Cook until after Kris’ album was released. Cook had a hit album and single — and he got some huge promo opportunities including SNL. Kris didn’t have a hit album, and LLWD took a long to to move up the charts. So Kris did not seem to get the same kind of opportunities in Nov and Dec.

    You know, this site’s archives are EXTREMELY easy to use. If you want to go to a specific month, say November of two years ago, you can type:
    https://www.mjsbigblog.com/2008/11

    It’s quite easy to determine when David Cook was on SNL and that was prior to his album being released. He appeared on SNL on Nov 1st and his hit album was released Nov 18th. More than two weeks later. Why is this important?

    So, Cook’s hit album did not contribute to him getting the SNL gig. So, the theory that Kris didn’t get the gig because his album was a flop doesn’t hold an ounce of water.

    Research. It is your friend.

    I probably was not clear enough — “I cannot find one major difference between Kris and Cook until after Kris’ album was released.”

    And, frankly, I will leave the research to whoever made the point that Kris did not get the “winner’s treatment” to explain what Kris did not get. Because, as far as I can tell the post Idol promo events for Kris look pretty much like what Cook got and the post Idol promo events for Adam look very similar to what Archie got.

  270. I don’t know what you aim to show with that list, the apparently long list of David Cook is nothing like comparable to Adam. A pre-show performance on AMA is not the closing performance, the Oprah one was part of the celebration of Olympians, certainly not the long interview Adam had with Oprah, etc.

    Yeah, I was going to comment that Adam’s AMA/Oprah stints were worlds different than Cook’s. Not even in the same ballpark, lol.

    This circular discussion about Adam/Kris makes my head hurt. Putting down one or the other doesn’t change the fact that the sales have been pretty slow. Will that change? Hope so, I like them both.

  271. So based on that I’d agree that Adam hasn’t really penetrated the market past his AI fanbase yet. WWFM seems to be doing that a little, but it’s hardly crazy successful. It’s doing the slow climb.

    Indeed. He’s got a ways to go, and it’s still not certain he can slow and steady it to a really successful album. Gold is nice, but not great. And Sherena, ack on reminding of Adam’s stupid ass rollout and daring not to trust RCA. I’m trying to get over macaroni art, but your talking about it again just brings it all back. Bad times, bad times.

  272. I probably was not clear enough — “I cannot find one major difference between Kris and Cook until after Kris’ album was released.”

    But, Q3, this was prior…

  273. And, frankly, I will leave the research to whoever made the point that Kris did not get the “winner’s treatment” to explain what Kris did not get. Because, as far as I can tell the post Idol promo events for Kris look pretty much like what Cook got and the post Idol promo events for Adam look very similar to what Archie got.

    Well, perhaps Kris has had the “winner’s treatment” from TBTB but he has definitely been overshadowed media-wise because the hype has been all about Adam. And I don’t care WHY Adam has had the hype, so I am not looking for a discussion on why, but fact is he’s had a lot more attention and that perhaps gives the impression that he hasn’t had the “winner’s treatment.” The “he should have won” thing has lots of legs in the media.

  274. This circular discussion about Adam/Kris makes my head hurt. Putting down one or the other doesn’t change the fact that the sales have been pretty slow. Will that change? Hope so, I like them both.

    Their sales both pretty much suck in different ways and both will need to grow in order to be really successful and in pretty much the same ways. Both will need their singles to do well to ultimately, hopefully at least, drive up album sales. Kris has a head start with his first single doing very well, but not like No Air levels of gangbusters, but it’s a good sized hit and in fair amount of time and seems to have some legs. Adam’s single is going to need some growth with radio play and hopefully sales, but he starts out with more album sales than Kris. But not great sales, so he’ll still need to drive album sales with his single sales/radio play, as well.

    And Carrie Underwood kicks everyone’s ass who isn’t Kelly.

  275. And Carrie Underwood kicks everyone’s ass who isn’t Kelly.

    Yup, pretty much. LOL.

  276. And Carrie Underwood kicks everyone’s ass who isn’t Kelly.

    Heh, indeed she does. She is amazing.

  277. I looked at the thread and saw Kris leading the downloads list. His video was #5 on VH1’s Top 20 last week. He’s in the Top 10 on HAC.
    This is bad? Only in Idol-land, I guess.

    Anyhow, I’m not complaining. His single will go platinum before long. Unlike the usual Idol singles that sell great out the gate, and then drop, the song seems to be doing the opposite. That proves to me, at least, that Kris is appealing to more than just forgetful Idol fans of his particular season. I think he’s attracting actual outside-of-Idol fans, the goal of every Idol artist, and a goal few achieve.

    I’ve heard two different DJs complement LLWD after they played it. One said it was “amazing,” another said it was “awesome.” I don’t know, but it seems to me songs off an Idol winner’s first album don’t usually get that kind of praise from radio DJs, who play the biggest, most popular artists regularly.

    I think Kris has several more songs from that album that may be hits. If so, they’ll sell that album, if that’s what everyone’s so concerned about.

  278. Hot 100

    LW-TW
    33-25 Live Like We’re Dying – Kris Allen
    25-28 Already Gone – Kelly Clarkson
    43-45 Cowboy Casanova – Carrie Underwood
    56-48 Life After You – Daughtry
    65-55 Whataya Want From Me – Adam Lambert
    89-84 Temporary Home – Carrie Underwood

  279. Mark
    01/20/2010 at 6:45 pm

    I probably was not clear enough — “I cannot find one major difference between Kris and Cook until after Kris’ album was released.”

    But, Q3, this was prior…

    The SNL performance was after LO, Cook’s lead album single, was released:

    Light On [lead single from David Cook’s album] – released 9/30/08
    SNL performance of Light on – 11/2/08
    David Cook Album release – 11/18/08

    And David Cook’s SNL performance was not because David Cook won Idol and was not part of the usual Idol winner’s promo. In fact, I believe that Cook’s performance on SNL so soon after winning Idol was unprecendented. If I am mistaken, and other winners have been on SNL to promote their album debuts, please let me know who that was.

    My big point, which I still think has some merit — Kris got the same treatment as most Idols AND I do not believe that his album is not selling well now because he did not get the normal winner’s promotion.

  280. ross
    01/20/2010 at 6:55 pm
    I looked at the thread and saw Kris leading the downloads list. His video was #5 on VH1’s Top 20 last week. He’s in the Top 10 on HAC.
    This is bad? Only in Idol-land, I guess.

    Anyhow, I’m not complaining. His single will go platinum before long. Unlike the usual Idol singles that sell great out the gate, and then drop, the song seems to be doing the opposite. That proves to me, at least, that Kris is appealing to more than just forgetful Idol fans of his particular season. I think he’s attracting actual outside-of-Idol fans, the goal of every Idol artist, and a goal few achieve.

    ITA — I think that success has to be measured over the long term and not measured by just sales in 90 days.

  281. Actually, I disagree with this view. Billboard ranking are also based on what the competition is like in a given period. November 2009 had a ton of huge releases — 11/22 and 11/23 releases were unprecedented in the number of major releases. Plus, there were an unprecendented number of reissues of classics and gift greatest hits albums in November 2009.

    But what I’m talking about is where the S8 guys are NOW — several weeks after their release. Are they doing about what you’d expect relative to the market and previous Idols’ performance? Because at this point, we are no longer thinking that the bulk of these sales are to cray cray AI fans. These are regular music fans (some of them perhaps casual AI fans) and they are buying these guys’ album based on whether they liked the music and not on who they voted for.

    And as far as huge releases in November 2009, so what? This happens every November because it’s the start of the holiday buying season. I don’t know about Jordin in November 2007, but November 2008 had releases by Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Brad Paisley, GNR, Il Divo, Andrea Bocelli, and Nickelback. They all opened huge and continued for at least a few more weeks. Even if you have one outlier like Susan Boyle, she only takes up one spot on the chart. It shouldn’t affect the chart standings that much.

    And where’d you get the 2million sold for Jordin? She did great, no doubt about it, but I never knew she sold just as much internationally as she did domestically. I didn’t think we had found a reliable source for international numbers in the first place.

  282. My big point, which I still think has some merit — Kris got the same treatment as most Idols AND I do not believe that his album is not selling well now because he did not get the normal winner’s promotion.

    And my point is that because of the negative press Kris got after the finale and all summer and the never ending media hype of Adam, Kris was at a disadvantage that other idols never had to contend with, and that MAY be why his album is not selling well. JMO

  283. Pam
    01/20/2010 at 6:58 pm
    Hot 100

    LW-TW
    33-25 Live Like We’re Dying – Kris Allen
    25-28 Already Gone – Kelly Clarkson
    43-45 Cowboy Casanova – Carrie Underwood
    56-48 Life After You – Daughtry
    65-55 Whataya Want From Me – Adam Lambert
    89-84 Temporary Home – Carrie Underwood

    Can I just say YEAHHHHHHHHHHH – Adam is close to the Top 50 on the Hot 100!!!!

    Can I just say YEAHHHHHHHHHHH – Kris is in the TOP 25 on the HOT 100!!!!

    Go BOYS!!!!!!!!!!

    (Please note, I was very careful to have the same number of H’s and the same number of apostrophe’s……) LOL :-)

  284. And, frankly, I will leave the research to whoever made the point that Kris did not get the “winner’s treatment” to explain what Kris did not get.

    If you meant me, then you are arguing about the wrong thing. I did not say that Kris did not get the winner treatment. The argument was about whether Adam and Archie can be compared and I said no. I said that Adam got the winner treatment (Kris and Adam were pretty much regarded as co-winner whatever that may mean), in fact he got better treatment than most in not all winners of AI.

  285. A

    nd my point is that because of the negative press Kris got after the finale and all summer and the never ending media hype of Adam, Kris was at a disadvantage that other idols never had to contend with, and that MAY be why his album is not selling well. JMO

    I agree.

    I’m so happy that Kris has a top 25 hit single. I hope the PDs take notice.

  286. At the end of the day, the record label will determine if the album was a financial success and if they want to release another album. They will look at more than sales units to define success — there is publishing revenue, licensing, ring tone sales, touring and a number of other revenue stream vs. the cost to produce and promote the album.

    That is typically the case for artists, but the AI alum do not have 360 degree contracts. The labels do not get a piece of their publishing revenue, tour revenue, licensing and what not. Whether they meet the labels’ profit expectations is going to depend largely on album and singles sales. Oh and those ringtones, lol.

    Their sales both pretty much suck in different ways and both will need to grow in order to be really successful and in pretty much the same ways. Both will need their singles to do well to ultimately, hopefully at least, drive up album sales.

    I pretty much agree with this. Kris has a gold single and Adam will soon have a gold album and thats a great start, but both guys need their singles to continue to climb on the radio and to see those radio spins start translating to better album sales. Neither guy got the AI bump this week that I would have expected. A thousand or two in increased sales is almost nothing given that several million viewers were just reminded that these guys exist on the planet. It’s really going to come down to radio play in the long run, and fortunately both guys are getting some momentum there. So we’ll see.

  287. Yeah, I was going to comment that Adam’s AMA/Oprah stints were worlds different than Cook’s. Not even in the same ballpark, lol.

    Seriously.

    Cook’s AMA Red Carpet = “I wonder whether they’ll even let Cook in the building?” <– true comment from Cook's fans.
    Adam's AMA Closing Performance = he was pimped all night and essentially headlined an evening full huge, established stars.

    Cook’s Oprah = Singing Magic Rainbow over the closing credits of Oprah’s special honoring the Olympians
    Adam’s Oprah = 2/3 of the episode pimping Adam, his music, his life, his rise to fame

    Not saying that Adam’s talent doesn’t deserve the press, etc., but hard to argue that he hasn’t gotten media coverage way beyond most Idols — which, as a result, leads to greater expectations regarding album and singles sales. So yeah, the whole “Adam should only be compared to other runners-up because he didn’t win” thing doesn’t really hold much water to me.

  288. The argument was about whether Adam and Archie can be compared and I said no

    Adam has gotten more press than Arichie, but don’t forget about those cameos Archie did on Hannah Montana and ICarly. That was huge for the Disney crowd. That little cutie. :)

  289. LLWD jumped 8 spots on the Billboard Top 100 from last week to this week. Nice!!!

    krinja_signal
    #RT @thisistaks: @krinja_signal LLWD is #25 on the Hot 100!!! Top 25!
    about 1 hour ago from Echofon

  290. Adam is also having success in Canada. He is going to Canada Monday to appear on a show much like Vh-1. Some peeps on twitter got tickets and he is planning to meet and greet. Canada really likes FYE (the single) which will help with the costs of producing the video, etc. These are Adam’s itune rankings in Canada and he is getting lots of radio adds. FYE has been ahead of WWFM until yesterday.

    Overall:
    OVERALL:

    WWFM#9
    FYE#16
    Album #9 regular; 81 deluxe

    FYE video: #5

  291. That’s great for Kris..top 25!!! Woohoo! It’s also awesome Adam is close to the top 50.

  292. Yeah David was the only Idol who was on SNL before his album dropped so it really had no major impact on album sales (except maybe pre-orders which were already said to be huge).

    As for as timing of releases Kris, David and Jordin all released relatively close to each other their given year, pretty much the same week so I think comparisons of Billboard ranking is fair and November every single year sees blockbuster releases..

  293. That is typically the case for artists, but the AI alum do not have 360 degree contracts. The labels do not get a piece of their publishing revenue, tour revenue, licensing and what not. Whether they meet the labels’ profit expectations is going to depend largely on album and singles sales. Oh and those ringtones, lol.

    Considering that 19 Manages these people, mostly uses a stable of writers who are also signed under 19 (for example Claude Kelly), and since they are signed with 19Recordings, it’s hard to believe that they aren’t benefiting from more than just album and single sales.

  294. Considering that 19 Manages these people, mostly uses a stable of writers who are also signed under 19 (for example Claude Kelly), and since they are signed with 19Recordings, it’s hard to believe that they aren’t benefiting from more than just album and single sales.

    Oh, 19M (and it’s parent company CKX) benefit HUGELY. Their cut is rumored to be as high as 50%. But the label doesn’t. RCA and Jive are owned by Sony.

  295. My daughter is going to MuchMusic Monday – looks like it will be a small audience

  296. I like Kris for the person he seems to be and because of the songs he sang on the show. The problem is none of the types of songs I liked will ever be a “radio favorite” so I doubt they will ever appear on an album. Examples…”Ain’t No Sunshine” and “Falling Softly”.

    I bought Kris’s album and single, but I must admit the songs on it don’t resemble the ones that I loved on Idol….well maybe “Let It Rain”.

    Adam seems like a great guy, but his singing style does nothing for me.
    Different strokes.

  297. Indeed. He’s got a ways to go, and it’s still not certain he can slow and steady it to a really successful album. Gold is nice, but not great. And Sherena, ack on reminding of Adam’s stupid ass rollout and daring not to trust RCA. I’m trying to get over macaroni art, but your talking about it again just brings it all back. Bad times, bad times.

    haha, I don’t like reminiscing about some of that stuff either. But I had to bring it up because it surprises me when people still say that he got the winner’s treatment, or an astounding rollout… that may have been a possibility before, but his rollout was botched in a lot of ways. I have to admit that Kris’ people’s approach was better. Steady and careful. Adam’s catching on now though ^.^

  298. My daughter is going to MuchMusic Monday – looks like it will be a small audience

    What is MuchMusic. Twitterers say there are two video stations in Canada and FYE is #1 and #3 on those countdowns. They vote everyday for it i think.

  299. Idolnewby
    01/20/2010 at 7:43 pm
    I like Kris for the person he seems to be and because of the songs he sang on the show. The problem is none of the types of songs I liked will ever be a “radio favorite” so I doubt they will ever appear on an album. Examples…”Ain’t No Sunshine” and “Falling Softly”.
    I bought Kris’s album and single, but I must admit the songs on it don’t resemble the ones that I loved on Idol….well maybe “Let It Rain”.

    What about “Bring it Back”?
    I’ve always felt, like ANS & FS, BIB showcases Kris’ emotional musicality perfectly.

  300. alaadam
    01/20/2010 at 7:54 pm
    “Adam on ET now! Doing his thingy for Haiti”

    Just saw it, what wonderful thing for Adam to do. I hope they raise a lot of money. I loved that played a time for miracles, it was a perfect fit.

  301. I am thrilled that Adam is doing so well on the ITune charts in Canada. I know they well love having him visit, however, it should be noted that Canada has a population of around 34 million whereas the US population is around 304 million. Those number have to factored into sales numbers.

  302. I have a question about songwriter royalties. If your song is on an album, and that album goes platinum (for instance), does the songwriter receive royalies for 1 million copies of his/her song (even if it is never released as a single).

    Or, to put it another way, does Kris and Adam get royalties for all the songs he wrote/co-wrote on his album — or just whatever one(s) get released as single(s) or are used in some other capacity (such as on a tv show, commercial, etc)

  303. “Bring it Back”…maybe. Also, I could get to like “Send Me All Your Angels”.

    Once Idols get off the the show they seem to need an immediate hit on radio which now days seems to mean some pop diddy that may not truly represent who they are. I will say the chorus in LLWD is quite catchy!

    I hope the PTB are as good at picking the next single as they were with this one….he needs another hit.

  304. it should be noted that Canada has a population of around 34 million whereas the US population is around 304 million. Those number have to factored into sales numbers.

    thanks for the info to put it into perspective. I am glad to see that other countries will probably embrace FYE. All of it goes to sales so that is good in itself. It is very clear that Adam/RCA is going to be counting dollars and looking at charts from other countries besides the US>

  305. I am rooting for all of them…really! (Right now I’m most concerned with Allison who seems to have fallen off the radar which is upsetting given her unique, great voice).
    LLWD is a good song, period! It will continue to sell and attract more and more people outside the AI bubble. My 17 y.o. son just commented to me that he really likes that song! No joke, to me that is a good sign for Kris! I feel as LLWD continues its move up the charts, people will become curious and seek out the album to buy it. I also feel it’s Kris’ style, he is a come from behind type of person who eventually winds up winning!
    WWFM is also a very good song! It too will climb the charts to what degree I don’t know. I am a huge Adam fan, but I truly feel the unrealistic expectations, which I bought into initially, may be adversely affecting him a bit. It’s interesting that sometimes human nature doesn’t want a sure winner….pardon the pun,lol! This coupled with the AMA performance didn’t help Adam. And, FYE has current, dance type music on it which should appeal to younger folks outside the bubble. Unfortunately, some of those are teens who do not relate to Adam. I do not agree with them, am upset by it, but I hear things and it’s part of the reality. They may not buy songs by Adam just b/c it’s by Adam. I’ve also heard some people, who loved Adam on AI, state that they wanted FYE to be more of a nod to classic rock than it is. I happen to love FYE but it is a challenge to sell an album with different types of genre on it.
    To the best of my recollection, Cook, Kris and Adam appeared on the GMA concert series in Aug., with Cook being a bit more of the “star”. I think Kris & Adam both did that FOrd concert, Regis, & other morning shows. Adam just did Leno but Kris could not due to his grandmother’s death. Yes, Adam got the cover of RS, and some other things Kris did not, but most of those things for me focused on things other than his music. People outside the bubble need to hear his music! I’m not sure if the media exposure of Adam focusing on things other than his music will help him sell songs. Some of the exposure was damage control from the AMAs, or about his lifestyle, which doesn’t allow people to hear him sing.
    Just saw Kris on a commerical during the telecast of AI9 with music playing in the background. Obviously as the winner he gets that.
    My guess is that Adam will be become big overseas. Does anyone know how that is going btw?
    Carrie is the queen as Simon predicted. (I hope he’s right about Adam too). I just think country/pop, crossover music just sells like hotcakes in this country (hello Taylor Swift)! Carrie’s got the talent, the looks and the right genre. Kelly is just as talented, started off 8-9 years ago when the economy and the music industry were better.
    I believe that all our idols, from about S6ish, onward, are going to be affected by the economy; music stealing, etc.

  306. And my point is that because of the negative press Kris got after the finale and all summer and the never ending media hype of Adam, Kris was at a disadvantage that other idols never had to contend with, and that MAY be why his album is not selling well. JMO

    Taylor Hicks begs to differ with hat point. The press treatment and the disrespect from the AI PTB he received for being NOT Daughtry, was far harsher than any other winner has ever experienced. Kris is living a life of sunshine and puppies in comparison.

    This is one long thread that has gone in many directions. I’m not sure my two cents are needed, but what the heck :)

    I do not find anything about Kris’s personality or interview style objectionable. I think he comes across as perfectly likable in any situation in which I’ve seen him. I’m excited for the success of LLWD. I think it’s a damn catchy tune. It’s getting significant rotation on my local pop & HAC stations. And, he’s lucky. Because without it? I think he’d be in danger of having his cd drop out of the BB 200.

    I’ve purchased Kris’s music, and to me, I think he has the most solid winner’s CD I’ve heard in years from anyone on this show. I don’t know why people aren’t buying it. But, who can predict such things.

    I understand the perspective that Adam received a lot attention, and the lion’s share of the press. But ya’ know, I think that’s just a factor of his unusually gifted range, and that big personality he’s got. None of that is the fault of Kris or Adam. It just is.

    And, while Adam’s cd has sold more, as a fan, I don’t feel a ton of satisfaction in the fact that his sales have sucked slightly less. I’m not one of those people who think that Gold is the new Platinum. Especially for those fresh off the most watched TV program in the country. To me, they both have a hill to climb to create any kind of staying power for themselves. But, the good news is, that i think they’re both doing the right things and putting in the hard work to get there.

    Again, I think they both have some really solid stuff on their respective cd’s. I think they just need to get lucky with some radio hits.

    Unfortunately, I think the real loser in the Season 8 race is Allison. Without a minor miracle, her cd is over before it began. And, I find her adorable, so that makes me a little sad.

  307. Adam was given the superstar treatment because there was alot of interest in him. A record company can give anyone that treatment but you still need something to back it up. Kris has been given just as many opportunities as Adam. Adam is more publicized and makes the news and articles because the interest is there. People are interested in Adam but I really don’t see much interest in Kris. If Oprah had the interest in Kris, I would bet she would have had him on. And so on with all of the other shows Adam has been included in. It’s sad actually because after watching the Idol reruns a few weeks ago, I really LOVED most of his performances. More so than when the initial show was aired.

    As far as Kris always talking about the 9 of them, let’s not forget Adam who was constantly promoting other people on his twitter AND in interviews. He always has something nice to say about all of his contestants as well.

    I do have a question for all of you numbers people. When exactly are Kris’ singles numbers going to benefit actual album sales? I would think the record companies would rather have more album sales versus singles, but that’s just my guess. I expect answers such as when he releases another single?

    I am obviously an Adam fan, but do like Kris as well. Just not enough to buy his album or single, but enough to definitely want him to succeed and be around for a long time. I do believe he will be able to stay in the industry and make an honest living doing what he loves, which is what is probably important to him anyways. Oh and on a side note, I think it is tragic about how Allison is doing. She has gotten great publicity as well…late night talk shows, Ellen etc….. But no interest. Maybe her next album can be more like the person we all fell in love with on Idol. I do not like her album now and would never buy it because I think they tried to turn her into something she is not. Ugh.

  308. I have a question about songwriter royalties. If your song is on an album, and that album goes platinum (for instance), does the songwriter receive royalies for 1 million copies of his/her song (even if it is never released as a single).

    Or, to put it another way, does Kris and Adam get royalties for all the songs he wrote/co-wrote on his album — or just whatever one(s) get released as single(s) or are used in some other capacity (such as on a tv show, commercial, etc)

    My understanding is that the songwriter gets royalties off the songs they write on the album based on albums sold. Then, of course, because singles sales are an extra sale over and above the album sales, the songwriter gets royalties from those sales too. Finally, the songwriter gets royalties every time their song is played on the radio — whereas the performer does not get any royalties just for being the performer whose song is played on the radio (this could be the singer or the instrumentalist on the song). (This may have changed recently though (meaning that singers may now be paid some tiny royalty based on their song being played on the radio), but I can’t find confirmation of that.)

  309. Unfortunately, some of those are teens who do not relate to Adam. I do not agree with them, am upset by it, but I hear things and it’s part of the reality. They may not buy songs by Adam just b/c it’s by Adam. I’ve also heard some people, who loved Adam on AI, state that they wanted FYE to be more of a nod to classic rock than it is. I happen to love FYE but it is a challenge to sell an album with different types of genre on it.

    Eh, I don’t know if teens are Adam’s market to begin with. I see him targeting the over 21 club goers. If continues to work with people like Pink and Lady Gaga, and perhaps tours with people like them and Katy Perry, I think he will do well.

  310. I expected better sales from Adam. His press doesn’t seem to be translating, which is not good. And his Oprah numbers SHOULD be big, we’ll see.

  311. I am wondering why Archuleta who is close to platinum on his album and almost double-platinum on his never-aired-on-Idol-single and who has had two very successful individual tours and two very successful other tours (Lovato and McFly) is not compared here to Kris and Adam? The fact that Crush was a mega hit and I never one time heard it in the San Francisco Bay area and it was never played in the LA area and yet it still kept moving along. This guy has broad appeal and he keeps pulling new fans in every day by sheer hard work and the combination of his charisma and outstanding, soulful voice. I think that Kris has broad appeal and that Adam can have broad appeal depending on how he wants to move his career. AI7 did very well overall and I would like to see Allison come along to catch up a little bit with Kris and Adam. And so far on AI9 – nothing great has jumped out – hears hoping!

  312. Finally, the songwriter gets royalties every time their song is played on the radio

    I think this is why Cook didn’t, and Kris and Adam won’t have any singles released that were written by them. I’m sure it is part of the contract to get songwriters to write/give songs. Based on that theory, I suspect Adam will have a lot of singles released from his album :)

    ETA- I think having a lot of singles released is a good thing. By the way, does anyone know what album had the most singles released?

  313. I’m sure this has been said over and over on this thread, but I just don’t have the patience to go and read from the beginning. So my 2 cents, is that both Kris and Adam are doing okay, not OMG fantastic, but good. They have a while to go and neither can be declared a clearcut “winner” post-idol (as if that should matter).

    For me, although Kris is cute and talented and all that, his music in general is not my cuppa tea and I personally hate LLWD, it sounds like something Kara would write, it’s just soo wordy. But the fact that people seem to be growing fond of it, well that’s good for Kris, so congrats and for his sake I hope it continues to climb the charts. I think though that unless his next single is something really popular off the bat, his album will just sink off the charts into obscurity. Clearly although people seem to like the single it is not making people want to buy the whole album, a second single that’s a hit could turn that around, but without it, I just don’t expect much more from him in terms of album sales.

    Now as for Adam, he is my guy, and I want him to be a superstar. That being said he is no where near that status at this time. He is only doing marginally better than Kris in some aspects of sales and such. Again though, I hate comparing the two to eachother, because for Adam to succeed, Kris does not have to fail and vice versa. So my comparison of the two guys is ending at that right there. I think that Adam has such a big personality and is very much a current artist, that if the younger generation gets over the gay thing (and no matter what anyone tells me, that is one of his biggest hurdles with the younger crowd and liking him) he has potential to be a big star.

    Both these guys have potential for big success, but it’s too early to tell what’s gonna happen. I’m happy for the Kris fans that his single is doing good, and I hope his album can start getting some pickup too. I’m happy for Adam and am glad his album is doing good and hope that WWFM gains sales. Congrats to both guys for whatever successes they have earned thus far!

  314. Ok I LOVE Archie but is he really close to platinum realistically? Last I saw he was selling 1,000 per week and was around 750k? Either way those are good numbers and yeah of course Crush the doesnt get nearly enough credit it deserves.

    I’m sure it is part of the contract to get songwriters to write/give songs. Based on that theory, I suspect Adam will have a lot of singles released from his album

    I dont buy that theory. If an album is still going strong singles will keep getting released not to mention a majority of the songs Kris/David had a hand in were co-writes so the pro-songwriters will still benefit. Daughtry has had co-writes released including a song that was all his writing alone.

  315. I dont buy that theory. If an album is still going strong singles will keep getting released not to mention a majority of the songs Kris/David had a hand in were co-writes so the pro-songwriters will still benefit.

    Did Cook have any singles released that were co-written by him? I thought he didn’t but I could be wrong. I may not have my information correct. Also, why didn’t they release another single for Cook?

  316. Just throwing this out there. Everyone says Kris got negative press after winning Idol and didn’t get the winners treatment and this is reflected in his sales. I actually look at it a different way. Kris got alot of press as “the guy who BEAT Adam Lambert”. Afterall, Adam was touted as the next best thing. As such, I am really surprised Kris’s sales aren’t higher BECAUSE he beat Adam, not because he won. It all depends on how you look at it. I personally believe Heatless and the anti-Adam vote won it for Kris. I also believe not having big sales right off will help both of them in the long run. If they become successful in spite of this, I think it means more.

  317. And his Oprah numbers SHOULD be big, we’ll see.

    I hope so. If they are as good as I’m hoping his album should be gold next week. Alsl the WWFM single sales should be really good.

  318. I think that Adam has such a big personality and is very much a current artist, that if the younger generation gets over the gay thing (and no matter what anyone tells me, that is one of his biggest hurdles with the younger crowd and liking him) he has potential to be a big star.

    ^^^^

    This is his greatest hurdle. 100% correct.

  319. well, undercooked, the last I read Archie’s allbum was at 824,500 (I do think that is worldwide, though not just the us)

  320. well, undercooked, the last I read Archie’s allbum was at 824,500 (I do think that is worldwide, though not just the us)

    Thanks cmon. It wasn’t me asking, but I appreciate the answer. :) I think Archie has a bright future. He is very talented, IMHO.

  321. Did Cook have any singles released that were co-written by him?

    No, but he has co-writes on all the other songs on the record, so the fact that he turned out to be a stronger album seller than a single seller likely worked out pretty well for him in terms of royalties.

  322. Did Cook have any singles released that were co-written by him? I thought he didn’t but I could be wrong. I may not have my information correct. Also, why didn’t they release another single for Cook?

    Well, there was Bar-ba-sol which was released for adds to the Active Rock format, but it was never sung on any TV apperance, never got a music video, and as far as I recall, never got an ad in the industry trades. I won’t speculate on how hard RCA pushed that song to Active Rock radio though.

    Then there was also Permanent — but that was released on iTunes as a charity single (so all sales revenue was donated to charity) for a period of about a month or so and was not intended to be played on, nor was it ever released for adds to, radio.

    But I’m with Trina. I don’t buy into the whole conspiracy theory that the songwriters for hire that write for Idols are somehow promised that their work will be released as singles, whereas the songs solo written or co-written by Idols are the album’s red-headed stepchildren –locked in the basement never to be released as singles. In making the singles selection, I’m sure the labels take into account that these songwriters for hire are proven hitmakers (unlike the Idols), but at the end of the day the labels probably give more weight to the results of their focus-grouping (Rate the Music and the like) and which demo they want to hit.

  323. Kris got alot of press as “the guy who BEAT Adam Lambert”.

    Well it is a matter of perception. Even though “Kris got alot of press as “the guy who BEAT Adam Lambert”, the next line was “America got it wrong” or “he’s no “Adam Lambert” or they called him “the guy who won” and never even used his name, so by my perception the negative press DID effect his sales.

  324. I expected better sales from Adam. His press doesn’t seem to be translating, which is not good. And his Oprah numbers SHOULD be big, we’ll see.

    His sales DID go up so that is what matters. Who is to determine what is the golden number here to satisfy some? If they dropped or stayed the same, I would understand, but since they definitely INCREASED I would say Oprah was successful.

  325. And his Oprah numbers SHOULD be big, we’ll see.

    I hope so. If they are as good as I’m hoping his album should be gold next week. Alsl the WWFM single sales should be really good.

    I hope so too, but I’m trying to not get over excited, just in case it’s not as big as I’d llike. Some good signs though, the album is at 6 on Amazon for at least a day now. His deluxe and regular are at 10 and 11 on itunes pop charts. WWFM single is at 12 on itunes pop 18 on overall itunes. So this is good good good, especially if it holds steady like this. Here’s hoping!!

  326. No, but he has co-writes on all the other songs on the record, so the fact that he turned out to be a stronger album seller than a single seller likely worked out pretty well for him in terms of royalties.

    ITA- but he misses out on the revenue paid by radio stations to songwriters when the song is played. I just learned that today (on this blog-so thanks smart posters) and I was quite surprised.

    From a USA Today article

    Group seeks radio airplay pay for performers

    Under current law, only songwriters are paid a royalty when their songs are played on radio.

    http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2007-06-13-radio-airplay-pay_N.htm

    ETA-I know this article is old, but I haven’t seen anything yet to see that the law has changed. Perhaps someone else knows what the status is.

  327. i predict adam sells 15000 this week from the oprah effect…..i dont expect the sales to be that big…although i would love to be proven wrong

  328. Kris got alot of press as “the guy who BEAT Adam Lambert”. Afterall, Adam was touted as the next best thing. As such, I am really surprised Kris’s sales aren’t higher BECAUSE he beat Adam, not because he won.

    I don’t remember many positive articles about Kris’s win; in fact, some writers made it sound like Kris only beat Adam because of the stupid AT&T texting scandal or because people were “homophobic.” Kris still hasn’t gotten enough credit for his actual talent and savvy when it came to choosing and interpreting songs on the show. If some articles were slanted to sound like Kris’s win was a travesty, then that publicity hurt his album sales, rather than helping them. I wish there had been more articles like the post-AI8 analysis by WhatNotToSing, which concluded that Kris won fair and square.
    Note: I’m not saying “poor Kris” here–Kris is probably the last person who would ever feel sorry for himself. I’m just disputing the idea that he got positive press for beating Adam.

  329. i predict adam sells 15000 this week from the oprah effect…..i dont expect the sales to be that big…although i would love to be proven wrong

    If you are going to dream dream big.

    I predict 100K in WWFM sales and 200K in albums sales. Yes, I’m joking. I would be very happy with enough to make his album gold and the single more than halfway to gold.

  330. All I remember were reading Why/How did Adam lose articles. No congratulating articles on Kris’ win. Well maybe in Arkansas there were.

  331. the next line was “America got it wrong”

    It doesn’t help when the winner is saying the exact same thing himself while accepting the trophy, and in interviews after.

    An interview in China? Pretty cool.

    We really won’t see how these guys are really doing for a few more months.
    Somehow I think they will both be fine.

  332. I am excited about Kris’s accomplishments this week. It is awesome that LLWD sold more than last week and is over 600K in sales now. Plus he is in the Top 20’s. Keep chugging away! Honestly, I don’t see Kris as a victim at all. He is doing just fine! I could care less how he compares to anyone else. My only hope for him is that he is able to make a living doing what he loves for as long as he wants. He has said over and over that it is all about the music, the other stuff doesn’t matter to much to him. It is what it is…

  333. Adam will get a nice big boost from oprah but I doubt it will be enough to get total sales to 500k this week. I think it will take at least 2,maybe 3 weeks to get over that hump

  334. ETA- I think having a lot of singles released is a good thing. By the way, does anyone know what album had the most singles released?

    Having an album that charts for a long time is a good thing. If singles support that album continuing to chart and sell, then it is good to release more singles. If they don’t, then the label, by which I mean the artist (single promotion costs are largely recoupable), has paid a lot of money for no good return.

    DTA had 7 singles released (5 mainstream, 2 rock-only). Some Hearts had 6 (5 country, 1 mainstream). But Breakaway “only” had 5, and I’m fairly certain it sold more globally than either of those.

  335. Adam is doing fine. He is nearing gold on his album, pretty much meeting RCA expectations if you read AO. The Mod over there is great on giving the occasional inside pov. I get tired of all the non Adam fans trying to down play his success because he has not had SuBo numbers. He is heading in the right direction every week. I think Idol will be presenting his platinum plaque to him sometime before this season is over.

    FWIW, I think Kris is doing fine too. He has a nice single, and some better ones on his album. I am not really a Kris fan but I like him well enough. I am not really worried about either of these guys.

  336. It doesn’t help when the winner is saying the exact same thing himself while accepting the trophy, and in interviews after.

    Kris didn’t say that America got it wrong. He said that Adam “deserves this,” which doesn’t mean that Kris thought he, himself, didn’t deserve it. Kris was being gracious; he was emphasizing that they both worked extremely hard to get to the finale, and both of them deserved to win.

  337. IMO if there was such a conspiracy regarding songwriters being promised singles and songs written/cowritten by ___ will be held back is true then these people wouldn’t even be allowed to have a hand in writing songs for their albums. And as I said upthread this conspiracy obviously didn’t apply to Chris Daughtry. Kelly has also had songs she had a hand in released as singles. In fact I think even Blake’s first single he co-wrote

  338. If they don’t, then the label, by which I mean the artist (single promotion costs are largely recoupable), has paid a lot of money for no good return

    Unless they are the songwriter? Does anyone know who much radio pays songwriters every time they play their song? I know it can’t be very much, but I’m sure it adds up.

    So Archie only had two singles released? And Cook only had two (not counting TOML) that were heavily pushed by RCA?

  339. Kris is not the first idol to deal with someone else should have won. Some people felt Clay should have won Season 2 and Daughtry Season 5. I remember people complaining Season 6 that the song This is My Now for Season 6 finale was unfair to Blake and helped Jordan win. I think if Adam won there would have also been talk that Danny or Kris should have won or whoever.

  340. CariA
    “His sales DID go up so that is what matters. Who is to determine what is the golden number here to satisfy some? If they dropped or stayed the same, I would understand, but since they definitely INCREASED I would say Oprah was successful.”

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I am quite happy with Adam’s over 450,00 albums sales of his debut album. It’s only been out since November 22 and he still has plenty of time to go platinum. He should go gold within the next two weeks and then he will try for platinum. He got a really nice boost from Oprah’s show which is reflected in the rise of his single and album on Itunes and amazon. Plus you have the people who actually will go to the stores to make their buys of the album. he has a buzz around him and this time it’s about his Oprah interview. He already has sold albums overseas and there is a lot of interest in him from several counties on about every continent. RCA/SONY seem to be happy with him and his prospects.Ii am not going to complain because his future looks bright.

  341. Carrie has writing credit on five of her singles so there goes that theory.

  342. Regarding the difference between Kris’s and Adam’s publicity, I think there’s one more point. If Adam hadn’t been getting the media attention he is, both these guys could have probably been well out of the limelight by now. I think everytime Adam is mentioned, Kris is usually brought to mind, as well, whether it is stated or not. Also visa versa. It brings both of them to mind even if just vaguely to the general public. So whoever garnered the attention, it inadvertantly keeps the attention on the two of them.

    This is bound to change in time, but anyway, to me, it has proven to their benefit at this point, because they may have well been forgotten, except by the hardcore fanbases, if there wasn’t the extra media attention. So, in my mind, Adam’s media attention has benefitted Kris, too. Even when it’s a negative comparison, it still keeps them in mind, and may stir a curiosity about both of them. JMO

  343. Does anyone know who much radio pays songwriters every time they play their song?

    My understanding is that it isn’t a fixed rate. ASCAP and BMI get full reports and sampling reports from radio stations that “follow the dollar;” they distribute based on how much income they get from the license fees from those radio stations (and distribute funds from bar and restaurant plays from those license fees). It also depends on things like what time of day the song is played and how big the station is on which it was played. A songwriter could end up having fairly dissimilar royalty payments from one quarter to the next even with a similar number of spins, if the dayparts or markets shift.

    Mechanical royalty rates are quite simple in comparison.

  344. Someone upthread, I forget who, asked about the number of singles David Cook got, and why. You will probably find disagreement here on this, but this is my theory. LO was released at a point where TOML was still charting pretty high and hadn’t peaked on HAC, and some feel it hurt LO’s rise on that format. With CBTM, they waited much longer, excruciatingly so for some, until LO had clearly peaked on the major formats. This was six months in. This may have been an attempt to prevent cannibalizing airplay and sales between the two songs, as had occurred with the first two. The death of Michael Jackson really slammed everyone, and with CBTM so new, it may have suppressed its sales when it had the most momentum. It continued to sell the album at a reasonable pace, though its own sales were dicier.

    Some have observed that very few rock songs ever make it high onto CHR, and that for most artists, only the first song off their album does much there, with subsequent ones having lesser results with each release. This is not true always, but there is a pretty strong pattern. Of course, releases as close in time as Adam’s are an anomaly, and I also think RCA dropped FYE so fast due to poor reception that effectively they could view WWFM as his first single.

    Back to David, CBTM was still rising on HAC nearly six months after it debuted. This seems to have been a decision point. The label was getting diminishing returns from the singles, and they had not released a followup single before so as not to cannibalize CBTM’s airplay and sales rise (note: purely speculating here). Now they would be directly competing with the AI8 crop and Carrie’s release if they released a new single then. While I firmly believe his best songs were his own and the co-writes, and they might have really killed on radio with any number of them, I suspect RCA was being risk-averse and didn’t think they would get enough bang for their buck – that the costs of releasing a single might outweigh the benefits. Most fans disagree that this was the case, but our money is not on the line.

    A label will not just endlessly release singles for the joy of airplay – they need to get a return in sales somewhere.

  345. Carrie has writing credit on five of her singles so there goes that theory

    Writing credit is pretty easy to get. Elvis got writing credit on songs just for switching some wording around. Being a song-writer and having “writing credit” are two different things.

  346. Thanks Indymuse. Lie is my favorite track off David Cook’s album. It seems to be popular with a lot of folks. That’s why I wonder why RCA chose the singles they did. That’s why I am wondering (aloud in this blog) that is has something to do with royalties from radio play. A lot of Kris fans say the best stuff on his album is written by him, but yet, LLWD (which I like) was released.

  347. Good for her. Was that on her debut album?

    No, she only wrote one song on her first album, they weren’t so keen on idols writing back then, but Kellie Pickler had one on her first album for example.

  348. Being a song-writer and having “writing credit” are two different things.

    Yes, but when the songs get registered, credits are assigned on a percentage basis. The standard is for an even split. “Vanity” credits won’t command an equal share (well, maybe they do if you’re Elvis).

    I honestly don’t care enough to look it up, but I’m fairly certain that CU had more than a 5 percent credit on some of her songs.

    ETA: Honestly, undercooked, I think the leadoff singles usually don’t have a writing credit because they need to be out much earlier and the labels want a likely hit. It’s much easier to test a demo from someone else right off than to test a demo that comes a month or two later in the writing process. (INO did have a CD co-writing credit, but he got to start earlier AND I suspect that was one of those 5 percent credit songs.)

  349. I should note that personally, I consider WWFM AL’s 3rd single in every other respect except how it was treated by CHR. TfM and FYE seemed to be dismissed quickly and the way paved for WWFM, allowing it to get treatment on CHR normally reserved for a first single. I also note that I consider AL pop, not rock, notwithstanding that he has a few rock-leaning pop songs on the album. I would expect pop rules to apply to him, not rock ones.

  350. Writing credit is pretty easy to get. Elvis got writing credit on songs just for switching some wording around. Being a song-writer and having “writing credit” are two different things.

    Well, she has lead writing credit on seven songs on her Play On album, including the first two singles, so I guess your little example doesn’t apply to her.

  351. I’ve heard two different DJs complement LLWD after they played it. One said it was “amazing,” another said it was “awesome.” I don’t know, but it seems to me songs off an Idol winner’s first album don’t usually get that kind of praise from radio DJs, who play the biggest, most popular artists regularly.

    I forgot to mention the other day that the DJs here on 107.3 played LLWD and afterwards one said that he was going to have to shell out the $$ and buy the single, and the other female DJ said she works out to it :)

  352. I left for a ten day cruise the morning after the finale. Maybe because I only had actual tv news and newspapers and had no Internet or blogs that I remember things differently. I was basically outside the bubble those days. I can tell you those of us on the ship positive coverage. I also think people remember things differently depending on what colored glasses they are wearing. I will say again that I think they will both be fine. I am interested to see if Simon’s predictions about either of them are accurate.

  353. Also I want to note that, for those already envisioning AL at platinum on his album, it will take considerably longer to reach that than it did to reach gold, barring a single that really takes off and carries the album with it. You no longer have the benefit of all the first-week release promo, tho each single will get promo. He’s now entering a time period when it will be more normal to sell 5-10k per week except when a new single releases. Just sayin’. Also, I am curious to see how many more singles RCA will invest in for him, given that they’ve already heavily invested in two and moderately in one other.

  354. I think the leadoff singles usually don’t have a writing credit because they need to be out much earlier and the labels want a likely hit.

    Yes, I think you are right. But in regards to the second single perhaps they could pick an idol penned song. I’m only thinking of Cook’s album as people didn’t seem to like the second single very much. But it could just be the way it is with debut albums because the idols don’t have much time to write because of the AI tour.

  355. I forgot to mention the other day that the DJs here on 107.3 played LLWD and afterwards one said that he was going to have to shell out the $$ and buy the single, and the other female DJ said she works out to it

    Working out to LLWD? Well maybe if you were running from trying to hear it. Sorry, I really dislike the song. I root most wholeheartedly for it and Kris’s success…from a long way aways. Basically out of hearing range. ;)

  356. Also, I am curious to see how many more singles RCA will invest in for him, given that they’ve already heavily invested in two and moderately in one other.

    I just don’t think RCA invested in TFM because it was for a movie. From my understanding, labels don’t want multiple singles out because one cannibalizes the other? So I don’t think they pushed TFM and let they let the chips fall where they may on that one. It was only made before of 2012.

  357. But in regards to the second single perhaps they could pick an idol penned song. I’m only thinking of Cook’s album as people didn’t seem to like the second single very much.

    Oh, I didn’t like Cook’s second single at all. At. All.

    But I think it had more to do with the fact that they conducted market research without thinking through some of the limitations (like RTM only offering a sample of the song, so people got the “hookiest” part, instead of the, IMO, draggy whole thing). But I’m pretty sure RCA was disappointed by how it did (or really, didn’t do) on CHR, so they’ll try to do something else next time.

    I just don’t think RCA invested in TFM because it was for a movie.

    And yes, I agree that the cost of TfM did not come out of RCA’s pocket. It was a rounding error in the movie budget. As far as RCA was concerned, FYE was their first budget line item.

  358. Also, I am curious to see how many more singles RCA will invest in for him, given that they’ve already heavily invested in two and moderately in one other.

    I think Adam will get two more singles, maybe three if one really takes off. I think he will get a fast one next, and then a slow ballad to test that before his second album. I hope Music Again is a single, it is the only song I like on the album, and actually I love it.

  359. But in regards to the second single. I’m only thinking of Cook’s album as people didn’t seem to like the second single very much.

    I think it depends on which “people” you are talking about. It’s not popular with a good portion of Dave’s super dedicated fans (who post a lot online), but it did quite well in the online polls at dco, did fine on HAC, and gets great reception at his concerts. I think his more casual fans, those who don’t follow AI closely and who don’t know or care who writes which songs, like it just fine. And I say that as someone who personally ranks CBTM in the bottom two songs on the record.

    I think Adam will get two more singles, maybe three if one really takes off.

    Pretty unlikely IMO. RCA likes to play their singles out before they invest in another one and as was mentioned upthread, they seem to base their decisions much more on how well the singles are driving album sales. I’d guess one more for sure, two if the album is selling reasonably well at that point.

  360. gangreen29
    01/20/2010 at 10:34 pm
    Also, I am curious to see how many more singles RCA will invest in for him, given that they’ve already heavily invested in two and moderately in one other.

    I think Adam will get two more singles, maybe three if one really takes off. I think he will get a fast one next, and then a slow ballad to test that before his second album. I hope Music Again is a single, it is the only song I like on the album, and actually I love it.

    Not trying to be pessimistic but if Adam’s weekly album sales start falling between 5,000 and 10,000, they’ll release one more single and if it doesn’t hit huge on radio, or impact album sales significantly, they’ll call it a day. I can’t see any scenario where they would release three more singles. JMO.

  361. But I think it had more to do with the fact that they conducted market research without thinking through some of the limitations (like RTM only offering a sample of the song, so people got the “hookiest” part, instead of the, IMO, draggy whole thing). But I’m pretty sure RCA was disappointed by how it did, so they’ll try to do something else next time.

    Lol – hard to believe RCA is just now learning how RTM surveys work. They’ve been doing this for a long time, with lots and lots of artists. I’d guess CBTM tested better for the audience they were targeting than the other songs in consideration (which IIRC were Declaration and Lie).

  362. I say they moderately invested in TfM because they had to have had some promotional costs involved in the initial rollout, even if they didn’t pay for the song or the video. Wasn’t it intro’d on radio? I forget the details. I’m not sure the movie folks would pay for radio promo.

  363. I think it depends on which “people” you are talking about. It’s not popular with a good portion of Dave’s super dedicated fans (who post a lot online), but it did quite well in the online polls at dco, did fine on HAC, and gets great reception at his concerts. I think his more casual fans, those who don’t follow AI closely and who don’t know or care who writes which songs, like it just fine. And I say that as someone who personally ranks CBTM in the bottom two songs on the record.

    I agree with you to a point. The song didn’t suck its way into Top 10 (6?) in HAC airplay after all. It had enough fans that the super dedicated DC fans have commented how DC could get the audience to sing two verses of the song back to him — so it was not unpopular. The only question is whether it was the right song to sell the album.

    My personal view is that CBTM was a good song for selling the song, but not necessarily the rest of the album or David Cook, the artist, for that matter. IMO, CBTM was the poppiest, non-rockiest song on the album — by a mile — and lots of people to whom that song appealed to (i.e., more pop buyers) would likely not have taken to the rest of the album, which was much more in the pop-rock to rock vein. Contrast this to LO which was more pop-rock (with very rock vocals) and, IMO, represented the balance of the album well.

  364. I am one of the rare fans who like CBTM. I wanted a different single but I like the song just fine. At concerts people would sing it back to him, more than the other songs. LO also had a very good reception at concerts. Lie was the standout song at most of the concerts and a good number of Cook fans wanted Lie as a single. Most fans are disappointed that Cook did not get another single. But in reality whether we like it or not the album had 4 singles. 3 of those singles TOML, LO, CBTM were top ten hits on HAC with LO getting to 20 on CHR, and TOML sitting atop the AC chart for weeks and weeks. We also had the release of Barbasol along with CBTM it did not do well but it was released to rock radio. Permanent was a charity single, it was not released to radio but was pushed on itunes with an add that ran for awhile. So that is the history of David’s singles. He had 4 singles off of his album not 2 as has been stated.

  365. I think it depends on which “people” you are talking about.

    That is correct. It’s actually in my top tier of songs, but my top tier is pretty big.

    I think Adam will get two more singles, maybe three if one really takes off.

    In my opinion, the deciding factor is not whether a single will take off, but whether the album continues to sell well. For example, once Cook’s (and David A’s) albums fell too low on the BB200, it seemed apparent that the label was less open to putting out another single with the expense that it entailed, if there’s no return on that investment. Now Cook, himself, seemed more interested in getting started on another album, but that’s my impression.

    I would suggest you keep a close eye on the album’s performance on BB200 and hope that it continues to sell above 4-5 k per week and/or stay on the BB chart, or the same thing could happen with Adam (& Kris).

  366. Not trying to be pessimistic but if Adam’s weekly album sales start falling between 5,000 and 10,000, they’ll release one more single and if it doesn’t hit huge on radio, or impact album sales significantly, they’ll call it a day.

    The outlook for Kris is really bleak then, isn’t it?

  367. I say they moderately invested in TfM because they had to have had some promotional costs involved in the initial rollout, even if they didn’t pay for the song or the video. Wasn’t it intro’d on radio? I forget the details. I’m not sure the movie folks would pay for radio promo.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I don’t know. I don’t recall Adam going on any radio station and ever promoting the song, or even talking about it that much, except when he was discussing it in connection to the movie. I think they stuck it on the album as a bonus track just in case the movie was a huge hit. 2012 covered its enormous budget, but wasn’t one of those movies, like Transformers, that people went to see over and over again. Didn’t the album come out right around the time of the movie, so they had to roll the dice on that one and include it just in case it hit big. :)

  368. YankeeFan08
    01/20/2010 at 11:02 pm
    Not trying to be pessimistic but if Adam’s weekly album sales start falling between 5,000 and 10,000, they’ll release one more single and if it doesn’t hit huge on radio, or impact album sales significantly, they’ll call it a day.

    The outlook for Kris is really bleak then, isn’t it?

    Perhaps, but Jive has a different focus and strategy than RCA does. They are more singles oriented, and RCA tends to be more album sales oriented. Based on the good performance of his current single, he will get another single, but if it tanks, yah, that’s all she wrote, for this album at least. Look at Archie, and he had a MONSTER first single.

  369. I say they moderately invested in TfM because they had to have had some promotional costs involved in the initial rollout, even if they didn’t pay for the song or the video. Wasn’t it intro’d on radio? I forget the details. I’m not sure the movie folks would pay for radio promo.

    It wasn’t an add to radios and there was no promotion by Adam for it on radio. The only promotion Adam did for TfM was free. It was by things like Access Hollywood and ET covering the movie or him, but nope, Adam didn’t go out and sell it and RCA didn’t try and push it for adds.

    Oh and CBTM? ugh. I really disliked that song. Even Cookie being cute and cool at the GMA morning thing couldn’t make me like it. I liked Barbasol, Mr. Sensitive and another song off the album that I can’t remember right now. If the only songs I had heard from Cook were LO, TOML and CBTM I would never have bought that album.

  370. IMO, CBTM was the poppiest, non-rockiest song on the album — by a mile

    Completely agree, and I’d guess that’s exactly why they picked it. It probably tested better with top 40 listeners who didn’t already own the record than the other two songs.

    but not necessarily the rest of the album or David Cook, the artist, for that matter

    Also completely agree. Which was why I was glad to see it do well enough not to be an embarrassment, but hopefully not so well that RCA would think Dave needed to do a lot more of that type of song on the next record *crosses fingers*.

  371. I think Kris will def get single #2 no matter what the album is selling. But if that flops there will be no single #3. If Jive can get hit singles they don’t seem to care as much about album sales. I think they’re such a cheap label they can make a profit off hit singles.

    RCA seems very album focused and does seem to stop putting out singles when an album falls too far down the BB 200. Cook’s singles did well enough for a third but RCA folded up the tents when the album sales slowed,

  372. Oops, 123abc456, you are correct. I have always counted TOML as one of the singles, and Bar-ba-sol was released to rock radio and presumably promoted behind the scenes, notwithstanding the fact that it had no video and no live performances. It did have a smattering of adds. I didn’t count Permanent, as it was a special deal and not released to radio. I personally believe that David gave up this primo opportunity to promote either CBTM or BBS in order to promote a cause closer to his heart, cancer research, and probably gave up substantial sales as a result. This was also a part of the trajectory of CBTM. Thanks for whoever added the comment about falling off the Billboard 200. This happened just at the moment CBTM peaked on the major formats, which is the time that would have been right for releasing the next single. I believe it falling out of the BB200 as CBTM peaked was a major part of the decision behind not releasing another single.

    As to AL, I seem to recall a few stations adding TfM, whether they sought them or not. I didn’t say he did any radio interviews or anything for it, but I believe it was debuted on Ryan Seacrest’s show. I don’t think that comes for free, and I doubt the movie paid for it. This is the main expense I meant, for the debut.

  373. I feel that the success of any of the Idols out of the gate has been due in large part to one of two things. American Idol fans are more apt to buy an album from an Idol who is “true” to the artist they perceived them to be on AI, or the idol puts out an album that is very similar to a “hit” artist of the day.

    Whenever an Idol has “moved” out of the AI fan’s comfort zone there is a big disconnect and it will adversely affect the way an album is received by the “core” buyers.

    This season has seen more of that from Kris and Adam then past seasons, even though this buying habit has reared it’s head before. The AI fan base fell in love with the acoustic stylings of Kris and for the most part the ballads and the “glam rock” songs from Adam. And both of these guys are different Artists than what was represented on the show, especially Adam.

    The initial fan base doesn’t care but the casual fan wants to hear what they perceived “their” favs to sound like. So now, both Kris and Adam are trying to sell to a whole different audience. And in truth they are newbies with their own sound.

    And the AI fan base has become very blase’ in their support of Idols. Though they like the show they are no long invested in watching and buying the new Idols. Even though many watch the show they already have their “idol” who they are supporting so each year the buyers are investing in their old favs not the new kids on the block. And I will guarantee that Season 9 will have very poor sales compared to previous years. That is why Kelly sells well and Carrie and Daughtry. The Idol fans know what to expect and they would rather buy their new albums then invest in Adam’s or Kris’ stuff that they don’t know much about.

  374. As to AL, I seem to recall a few stations adding TfM, whether they sought them or not. I didn’t say he did any radio interviews or anything for it, but I believe it was debuted on Ryan Seacrest’s show. I don’t think that comes for free, and I doubt the movie paid for it. This is the main expense I meant, for the debut.

    I don’t recall it debuting on Ryan Seacrest. I know FYE did. I do think it is free, because of the no pay for play rules.

  375. This season has seen more of that from Kris and Adam then past seasons, even though this buying habit has reared it’s head before. The AI fan base fell in love with the acoustic stylings of Kris and for the most part the ballads and the “glam rock” songs from Adam. And both of these guys are different Artists than what was represented on the show, especially Adam.

    I can sort of see that, but I do think ROF would fit on his album nicely, and people who liked ROF would probably like a few of the tracks on FYE. I don’t think it was possible to do all that he wanted to do with his arrangements on AI. He did attempt an elecontric feel to BTBW, but really, the AI band really isn’t up to it.

    In regards to ballads, Broken Open, Soaked and Loaded Smile would appeal to the ballad lovers. If you haven’t checked out those tracks, they are very nice.

  376. IndyMuse-
    TFM did not “DIE” becuz it was never sent to radio. It was never a single, period. It was a song for a movie, and radio stations can play any song they want. RCA never sent TFM for adds, thus not pushing it out at all for radio. Why are you so confused??? LOL

  377. It’s too bad we didn’t get the digital downloads for the albums. I know Kris got a big bump on the overall ITUNES chart after AI.

    Adam’s doing very well right now on the album charts, I believe he is at 38 and 39 for deluxe and regular. But I’m not sure what the means in actually downloads. I know it is a small percentage of sales.

  378. Some good signs though, the album is at 6 on Amazon for at least a day now. His deluxe and regular are at 10 and 11 on itunes pop charts. WWFM single is at 12 on itunes pop 18 on overall itunes. So this is good good good, especially if it holds steady like this.

    I don’t think it will hold steady, but being on the Oprah show sure has brought a HUGE boost! I imagine the only boost that can possibly beat Oprah is when the winner or runner-up appears on American Idol this season.

  379. As for staying true to who you were on the show to be successful, just ask Taylor, McPhee and Ruben about that long-term success fo that.

    I don’t know about Taylor, but the other two are horrible examples for your argument. Rubens first album was criticized by his fans from the show because he didn’t go in the luther vandross direction but went more urban r & B, and Katharine was all jazzy on the show and then put out a pop/r&b album that was again nothing like her on idol and was heavily criticized for that. I actually would think of Katharine as the poster child of Randy’s argument, her or Bo.

  380. I really enjoyed reading all the discussion of Kris album sales, etc.
    I found myself constantly praying for his success and when I said praying, yes I mentioned his name in church. Sigh.

    Anyway, watching all the S9 auditions, looking at the happy. overjoyed people getting the Golden Tickets to Hollywood; I wonder if they realized how difficult the road ahead for them. Hollywood week, semifinals, and then the 12 weeks of stress. And even if you win the idol, you have to deal with all the discussion of all the album sales, charts, comparisons, etc,etc.

    I’ve never followed anybody’s post idol journey before ( Kris is my first and hopefully last), so I never really “feel” for the upcoming idol contestants before either.

  381. Not trying to be pessimistic but if Adam’s weekly album sales start falling between 5,000 and 10,000, they’ll release one more single and if it doesn’t hit huge on radio, or impact album sales significantly, they’ll call it a day. I can’t see any scenario where they would release three more singles. JMO.

    I admit that I don’t know this business very well but I am not sure album sales are what determines another single. I know a lot of you love DCTR but I understand why they didn’t invest in another single. There is no surefire winner single in there, no radiohit. Do you think they’ll stop with singles for Kesha once her album drops below 10K (she is selling less than Adam)? No, they won’t because her album is full of possible radiohits.

    And what about Orianthi that has sold 33K of her album but has a single charting? She will surely get a second single and more if she has hits on her record.

    I think the experience here from idol albums is that many of them don’t have radiohits on them. Why release something as a single when it won’t chart and won’t get radio play?

    I am sure Gaga’s album dropped below 10K several times during her 5 singles history. She kept releasing singles because she had radiohit singles.

  382. It looks like the bounce may be starting to wear off for Adam and Kris’ single seems to be slipping and may be near it’s peak. I think they will release a second single pretty soon. I do think the more singles the better. It helps keep the singer’s name out there.

  383. It looks like the bounce may be starting to wear off for Adam and Kris’ single seems to be slipping and may be near it’s peak. I think they will release a second single pretty soon. I do think the more singles the better. It helps keep the singer’s name out there.

    I don’t know about Kris but WWFM by Adam is definitley climbing and it certainly has not peaked yet.

  384. Kris single (LLWD) has 9 weeks left before it goes recurrent. I really think LLWD will break into top20 on POP. A lot of singles will go recurrent so with a little momentum of it’s own it should be alright. I think they’ll wait with a new single for Kris to see what happens to LLWD the next coming weeks.

  385. I agree WWFM is still climbing overall. I meant the bounce from Oprah seems to be wearing off.

  386. Well Ke$ha is a monster single seller. She set a record with Tik Tok selling 600K in one week. And other songs on her album are already selling in the top 5 on iTunes w/o being released as singles. Anyone with a #1 or even a top 5 Pop song will get another single.

    But so far neither Adam or Kris has that kind of monster single experience. So I don’t see their labels churning out singles unless a)for Jive – they are big hits b)for RCA- they also help the album (and ar big hits)

  387. Well Ke$ha is a monster single seller. She set a record with Tik Tok selling 600K in one week. And other songs on her album are already selling in the top 5 on iTunes w/o being released as singles. Anyone with a #1 or even a top 5 Pop song will get another single.

    But so far neither Adam or Kris has that kind of monster single experience. So I don’t see their labels churning out singles unless a)for Jive – they are big hits b)for RCA- they also help the album (and ar big hits)

    Yeah but you are basically saying what I am saying. That as long as the singles have a chance to be hits they’ll keep on putting out singles. I don’t think the singles even have to be a monster hit like Keshas, a top10 hit is enough.

    I just wanted to add the perspective that a single can’t sell the album if it won’t be a hit. So there has to be hit singles on pop albums. In my opinion that is what has been missing on many idol records.

  388. Well Ke$ha is a monster single seller. She set a record with Tik Tok selling 600K in one week. And other songs on her album are already selling in the top 5 on iTunes w/o being released as singles. Anyone with a #1 or even a top 5 Pop song will get another single.

    But so far neither Adam or Kris has that kind of monster single experience. So I don’t see their labels churning out singles unless a)for Jive – they are big hits b)for RCA- they also help the album (and ar big hits)

    Yeah but you are basically saying what I am saying. That as long as the singles have a chance to be hits they’ll keep on putting out singles. I don’t think the singles even have to be a monster hit like Keshas, a top10 hit is enough.

  389. Well, I think WWFM will get to be at the top 5 of itunes at some point, hopefully will manage to stay for a few weeks.

    It’s just a hunch, but I feel strongly about it:
    1. It’s a catchy pop song, but has just enough rock to satisfy the ones who love rock Adam (like myself… do I prefer WLL? Duh! Of course- but WWFM is good for a slower song).
    2. The video is good- has a good vibe and reflects both angst and vulnerability.
    3. He looks absolutely amazing in the video- I am SURE he will win some of the younger audience over with that look.
    4. Radio play and adds seem to be getting better and better.
    5. Personal gut feeling :-)

  390. His future is so bright, and I can’t think of anyone who deserves success more than him.

    He’s not the only one who deserves success. Everyone of these “kids” that go thru the idol machine deserve to be successful. A statement like that just invites wars.

  391. I think Adam and Kris are doing fine. They´re just starting. (WWFM is climbing in the charts and LLWD broke HAC top10 and I think next week is going to brake Pop top20)

    And the most interesting part is that they´re stating when the Idol machine is ready to move on to the next season.

    If things continues the way they are, Adam and Kris will have success with people outside American Idol bubble.

    I think both of them will have another single (with music video) and will go on tour. In my opinion their record companies also believe in them and have a long term plan for both of them.

  392. And the most interesting part is that they´re stating when the Idol machine is ready to move on to the next season.

    Haha. That happens every year.

  393. Reminder:

    Once again, please don’t post random headlines in this thread. Stick to the subject, which is: this week’s numbers. Rehashing past seasons is off topic.

  394. Adam and Kris still holding on:

    WWFM #20
    LLWD #23

    Go boys!
    I’m an Adam fan, but very happy for Kris’ success!

  395. Reminder:

    Once again, please don’t post random headlines in this thread. Stick to the subject, which is: this week’s numbers. Rehashing past seasons is off topic.

    Sorry about my OT post. I was directing it towards the two pages of discussion concerning the chance at second singles. I had just seen that tweet from Sony music and thought it spoke to the fact that Adams’s label does indeed think they are lucky to have them on their label. Next time I will qoute one of the many posts I was referring to and do a better job of explaining how my post is tied in.

    If a record company thinks you can potentially produce another hit, they are going to try with another single. Also, it does help if an artist can appeal to the international markets. So many times we ignore the international sales. I bet the record companies don’t. Money is money, they don’t care where it comes from.

  396. NYC
    If a record company thinks you can potentially produce another hit, they are going to try with another single. Also, it does help if an artist can appeal to the international markets. So many times we ignore the international sales. I bet the record companies don’t. Money is money, they don’t care where it comes from.

    The operative word being ANOTHER hit. And the cost of promoting an artist overseas is significantly higher than in the US or Canada (translations, import/export cost, flights, hotels, etc.) so money isn’t always just money. They artist really has to blow-up internationally to make it worth their while.

  397. Saga,

    The cost of releasing and promoting a single is prohibitive, especially if there is no evidence that said single is going to be a “surefire” radiohit, and I’m not convinced that there are any “surefire” radiohits on Adam’s album. Love Adam, not the album, JMO. I’m sure that when they released both FYE & WWFM, RCA assumed that they were going to be monsters, or else why would they have released them? That has not proven to be the case. It is simple, RCA will release one more single, if it does not blow up like Crush, LLWD, TOML or even LO, and/or, if it does not measurably propel album sales, they will not release another. This is how RCA operates. If you can show me an example of RCA deviating from this formula, please provide it.

  398. I am not sure album sales are what determines another single……
    I think the experience here from idol albums is that many of them don’t have radiohits on them. Why release something as a single when it won’t chart and won’t get radio play?

    I think the strategy varies from label to label. RCA’s strategy is to push for album sales, Jive’s seems to be more oriented toward singles. I think the broader point being made here is that the goal of the labels is to sell music – radio play is just a means to an end. Different labels have different strategies for different artists at different times around radio play – but all the labels need to see that radio play is translating to music sales or they are not going to invest the time and money into releasing and promoting singles.

  399. RCA’s strategy is to push for album sales, Jive’s seems to be more oriented toward singles.

    I think that’s only the perception for Idol watchers because of Jordin’s and Archie’s recent experience re singles (Jive) and Cook’s experience re his album (RCA). I don’t think the labels care whether its albums or singles. It all comes down to numbers. Will the new single be able justify the cost and expense of its promotion by either (1) selling enough singles and/or (2) pushing enough album sales? If the answer is yes, the labels don’t care whether the money is coming from singles or albums; all they care about is whether there’s positive cash flow relative to the costs going out the door for the music video, cost of appearances (flights, wardrobe, makeup, etc.), industry ads, paying people to push the single to PDs, and whatever else goes on behind the scenes that’s just one step short of payola.

  400. I’m not convinced that there are any “surefire” radiohits on Adam’s album. Love Adam, not the album, JMO. I’m sure that when they released both FYE & WWFM, RCA assumed that they were going to be monsters, or else why would they have released them? That has not proven to be the case.

    I think it is way too early to say how WWFM will do. It’s been out, what eight weeks.

    Kesha has the top single, but how long did it take her to get there. From my understanding, “Tik Tok” was released digitally early August and sent to radio for adds in October. When did it take off? End of December? I’m not saying Adam’s single will take off, but it hasn’t peaked yet, so who knows. But I agree, it isn’t an instant success like Crush or TOML

  401. It is simple, RCA will release one more single, if it does not blow up like Crush, LLWD, TOML or even LO, and/or, if it does not measurably propel album sales, they will not release another.

    I wouldn’t compare LLWD to Crush or TOML. LLWD and WWFM are doing about the same if you compare the time they have been out and where they are charting.

  402. It all comes down to numbers. Will the new single be able justify the cost and expense of its promotion by either (1) selling enough singles and/or (2) pushing enough album sales? If the answer is yes, the labels don’t care whether the money is coming from singles or albums; all they care about is whether there’s positive cash flow relative to the costs going out the door for the music video, cost of appearances (flights, wardrobe, makeup, etc.), industry ads, paying people to push the single to PDs, and whatever else goes on behind the scenes

    Well put!

  403. Honestly guys when it comes to Adam I think we have to take into account that RCA and 19 are going to promote him as an international artist something they never conscientiously did before this is the one area that I do believe that they will be treating Adam differently then any other AI contestant. I think they are right in doing it too. That is why I think we have not been so sure of Adam roll out. I think Adam is the first contestant that they are conscientiously thinking international I think anyone else in the past in was second too US promo. Adam I think they are more thinking International then US. It is the only thing that can explain his weird roll out. I maybe wrong but I really think I am right. JMHO

  404. It is simple, RCA will release one more single, if it does not blow up like Crush, LLWD, TOML or even LO, and/or, if it does not measurably propel album sales, they will not release another.

    I wouldn’t compare LLWD to Crush or TOML. LLWD and WWFM are doing about the same if you compare the time they have been out and where they are charting

    .

    Yes, LLWD & WWFM are doing about the same. Also from what I’ve seen LLWD did not “blow up”. Most of the comments have been about “slow & steady”.

    WWFM seems to be propelling album sales pretty well.

  405. Doesn’t the artist bear a lot of the cost of releasing a single? At DCO, there’s been some theorizing that it could have been DC himself who nixed another single, perhaps choosing to pour his money into the next album and first single off of it, rather than gamble on the cost/benefit ratio of a single following CBTM.

    If this is so–and correct me if I’m wrong–then Adam and Kris also have to take their own financial situations into consideration when it comes to releasing singles.

  406. For all you number nerds, David Cook’s Light On has been certified PLATINUM by riaa. Congrats Dave and our little boat anchor.

  407. I wouldn’t compare LLWD to Crush or TOML. LLWD and WWFM are doing about the same if you compare the time they have been out and where they are charting.

    True, but I don’t see how you can compare LLWD and WWFM. Shouldn’t you be comparing LLWD with FYE?

    LLWD is #25 overall and FYE is #185 overall.

    Kris doesn’t have a 2nd single out, so you really can’t compare WWFM against anything of Kris’s.

  408. dhunken
    01/22/2010 at 3:56 am
    Honestly guys when it comes to Adam I think we have to take into account that RCA and 19 are going to promote him as an international artist

    International artist? You’re confusing him with Kris who at this point has 3 concert dates overseas.

    Yes, Simon, I believe we do have an international star, and it’s Kris Allen! :grin:

  409. Nice! Hadn’t checked iTunes for a while and Adam is back up to #21 overall with WWFM and #14 pop. He was down to #23 last time I checked. His albums on Pop are still 13 and 14. I really thought the Oprah bump would have worn off big time by now. He still has Ellen to give him a bump next week! Cool!

  410. Nice! Hadn’t checked iTunes for a while and Adam is back up to #21 overall with WWFM and #14 pop. He was down to #23 last time I checked. His albums on Pop are still 13 and 14. I really thought the Oprah bump would have worn off big time by now. He still has Ellen to give him a bump next week! Cool!

    He’s holding pretty steady, which is nice. I was hoping the Oprah effect would be sustainable, and to a point it is. They dropped a few spots from where they peaked on Wednesday, but not significantly. I know that they will most likely dip more, but with WWFM more than likely debuting on the VH1 countdown this weekend he may climb higher instead of dropping more. And with him performing on Ellen, that’s another thing that will surely increase his numbers at least for a few days. Adam should have some really nice numbers comparatively speaking next week! Good for him, I think the AMA fiasco is finally in the rearview for the most part. If he holds steady, his album should be gold in 2-3 weeks and WWFM will be on it’s way to gold before we know it.

  411. True, but I don’t see how you can compare LLWD and WWFM. Shouldn’t you be comparing LLWD with FYE?

    I think you can still compare the two even though WWFM is technically Adam’s second single. Obviously FYE isn’t Adam’s current single anymore, so it doesn’t make sense to compare it to LLWD at this point. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with comparing the current singles of Adam and Kris.

    A Gold album is a certainty for Adam at this point, but I think he’ll need a big hit to help propel FYE (the album) to platinum. WWFM may be that hit-that remains to be seen. It’s moving in the right direction. He’ll get another single after WWFM, but if the next one doesn’t take off I doubt he’ll get another one (regardless of where his album sales are at that point).

  412. dhunken
    01/22/2010 at 3:56 am

    Honestly guys when it comes to Adam I think we have to take into account that RCA and 19 are going to promote him as an international artist something they never conscientiously did before

    dhunken,

    Not sure I understand your post, but Adam would not be the first artist AI promoted internationally. Kelly Clarkson was promoted internationally and has sold millions of albums outside the US.

  413. Adam just made his debut on the VH1 Top 20 Countdown at #11!!! WooHoo!!! This will definitely help his numbers on top of the Oprah effect!!! Whataya Want From Me is such a good song! I hope it goes all the way to number 1 in all aspects of a numbers game!!

  414. Kris has the #1 video on VH1’s Top 20 Countdown!!!!! WOOHOO!!!! LLWD is the little song that keeps chugging away! GO Kris..

  415. LLWD is #21 for Pop on 1/22 according to Mediabase. Kris almost has a Top 20 Pop song.. WOOHOO!!!! No Travesty here, just hard work and a good song :}

  416. ai_fan
    01/22/2010 at 10:56 pm

    dhunken
    01/22/2010 at 3:56 am

    Honestly guys when it comes to Adam I think we have to take into account that RCA and 19 are going to promote him as an international artist something they never conscientiously did before

    dhunken,

    Not sure I understand your post, but Adam would not be the first artist AI promoted internationally. Kelly Clarkson was promoted internationally and has sold millions of albums outside the US.

    Ok sorry if I was not clear. I never said that no other idol was promoted internationally but I think that for Adam that was a first thought. Kelly was promoted USA first and the international aspect was after her success in the US. It is only my opinion but I think the design for Adam is for an International push and roll out. The other Idols where pushed for a USA roll out as the prime initiative. I never said I was 100% correct just that this is my impression. Everyone is initialed theirs.

    Oh and Diane there is a difference between playing in international countries and being marketed as an international artist. But I do hope Kris finds success in it too. :-)

    Good news for both Kris and Idol on VH1 on VH1 top Videos Adam has the top 3 now. WWFM is 1, FYE is 2 and TFM is #3 Kris is #6, Daughtry is #4. Don’t know why this list is different then the top 20 count down.

    http://www.vh1.com/

  417. Good news for both Kris and Idol on VH1 on VH1 top Videos Adam has the top 3 now. WWFM is 1, FYE is 2 and TFM is #3 Kris is #6, Daughtry is #4. Don’t know why this list is different then the top 20 count down.

    I think that list reflects rankings of videos being streamed on-line at VH1, while the countdown reflects criteria such as voting & other factors.

  418. YAY! Kris is getting a boost in sales! Now, let’s help Allison. She needs it.

  419. Pam
    01/22/2010 at 2:04 pm

    You can see LO’s official Gold and Platinum certification status by the RIAA HERE.

    Thank you Pam, that was REALLY, REALLY PRETTY! :-)

    And, lol at Kris Allen, the international star…. Just lolololololol…

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