Idol Headlines for 11/29/09

Adam Lambert Lands at LAX, Turns Down Guy Kiss

Back on the west coast following a promotional trip to New York City, Adam Lambert was spotted touching down at LAX Airport in Los Angeles on Saturday night (November 28).

Top 3 News Stories of the Day
Top 3 News Stories of the Day

Currently in the midst of a controversy over his American Music Awards performance, the ‘American Idol’  alum was surprised and humored when a male member of the media invited him to give him a kiss while passing through the terminal – passing up on the offer as he hopped into an awaiting ride.

Celebrity-Gossip.net

More Idol Headlines after the JUMP…

Another Week at the Top for Lady Antebellum’s “Need You Now, ” Underwood’s Play On

Got a minute? That’s about all it will take to run down the changes on Billboard’s country albums and songs charts.

Lady Antebellum’s “Need You Now” is once again the No. 1 song, and Carrie Underwood’s Play On remains the top CD for the third straight week.

There’s just one new album and song to announce. The multi-artist EP, Country for Christmas, debuts at No. 74, while “Pray For You” by Jaron & the Long Road to Love squeezes in at No. 58.

Willie Nelson and Asleep at the Wheels’ Willie & the Wheel re-enters the chart fray at No. 64. And Ron White’s Behavioral Problem resurfaces at No. 55.

That’s all the new action there is — and rather unusual considering all the Christmas music that usually comes to a boil about this time each year.

CMT.com

Would David Archuleta sing along?

We’ve all done it. Cruising along in the car, radio on, song we are vaguely familiar with comes on and we start to sing along.

Thought came to mind ‘ what is it like to be a recording artist and that happens to you? More specifically, what if it were your song playing on the radio? Would you sing along to yourself?

Idol Chatter asked that question to David Archuleta’ ¦

Here is his response:

Press Democrat

You Better Not Cry ‘Cause Santa Claus is Coming to Tinseltown

The Hollywood Christmas Parade will wind down the streets of Tinseltown Sunday evening, Nov. 29, with a host of special celebrity guests, musical numbers and even some giant balloons.

Other celebrities to participating in the festivities with Lucci, who plays Erica Kane on “All My Children, ” include Oscar winner Louis Gossett Jr., Grammy-nominated singer Brian McKnight, comedian Shawn Wayans, former “American Idol” contestant Ace Young, talk show host Montel Williams, actors Lorenzo Lamas and Lee Majors, and athletes Lisa Leslie and Luc Robitaille.

NBC Los Angeles

Paula Abdul: Petite Pretty

Out for some Friday afternoon errands, Paula Abdul was spotted out in Beverly Hills yesterday (November 27).

The ex ‘American Idol’  judge looked cute in black jeans, a white top and a funky necklace accessory while walking to her car carrying candy and a DVD.

Celebrity-Gossip.net

X Factor: Cowell slams Stacey as a ‘wedding singer’, while Lloyd boasts I’m Still Standing

With places in the semi-final up for grabs, the five remaining X Factor contestants were determined to make their mark.

And with two songs each – one Elton John, one Take That – they had ample chance to impress the judges.

But not everyone managed it. Simon Cowell disparagingly labelled Stacey Solomon, the last girl left in the competition, a ‘wedding singer’.

And he was even more dismissive of Welsh teenager Lloyd Daniels, calling his performance ‘amateur dramatics’.

Daily Mail.co.uk

Simon Cowell has his hairy hands waxed

Here’s reality TV judge Simon ­Cowell showing he’s got The WA-X Factor’ ¦ after getting the hair removed from the back of his hands.

In October the image-obsessed star ­appeared on screen sporting a hirsute look that would have put Susan Boyle to shame.

But fast forward eight weeks and Cowell, 50, was back on TV in front of The X ­Factor’s 14million viewers ‘ minus the fuzz.

Mirror.co.uk

I loved X Factor’s Danyl Johnson but he dumped me for a man, reveals ex-girlfriend

A woman who had a teenage romance with X Factor star Danyl Johnson has revealed how they split up when he hooked up with a man.

Katie Swales, 27, says Johnson was the love of her life and she had no idea he was bisexual as they dated for six months.

She thought their relationship was going well but he dumped her by phone and she later found out he had started seeing a man.

Daily Mail

Dizzy Feet Foundation Celebrates Dance with Help from So You Think You Can Dance

Taking place at the Kodak Theater on November 29th, the event is hosted by So You Think You Can Dance resident mistress of ceremonies Cat Deely, and offers a cadre of star power usually reserved for award shows. On hand for appearances and performances are songstress Christina Aguilera, cast members from STEP UP 1, 2 & 3D including Channing Tatum, Briana Evigan, Jenna Dewan, Rick Malambri, and more. All in all, it sounds like exactly what the event promises with its title – a celebration of music and movement.

Digital City.com

MARY MURPHY’S BROADWAY BOUND

No resting over the Thanksgiving weekend for Mary Murphy. The So You Think You Can Dance judge was deep in rehearsals ‘ even on turkey day ‘ in New York.

Murphy has the lead role in the upcoming Broadway production of Burn the Floor. That’s something that rarely happens for dancers the Queen of Scream tells us. But now that she’s a genuine star, Murphy is pinching herself daily at the thought of her name on a Broadway marquee.

Click onto video for details on Mary Murphy’s lead role in Burn the Floor.

Hollywood Outbreak

About mj santilli 33697 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

757 Comments

  1. You know – I’ve listened to the clips from Lambert’s record again – now that all that AMA, ‘I’m a poor persecuted soul’ bs has died down – and I’m beginning to kind of like it!

    If this carries on, I might just break down and buy the damned thing.

    I’m just stubbornly resisting the media hoopla…I truely cannot stand that kind of audience manipulation.

    But, I have to admit, even if through gritted teeth, it is kind of good.

    Dammit. Lol

  2. Haha. DA has always hated listening to himself sing. I remember the night of the finale, someone was interviewing him and playing clips, and he kept plugging his ears.

  3. Come on over to the dark side fadetowhite. It is a good album and there are several songs that I really like on it… more than most albums. I think it is going to do well if people give it a chance.

  4. Right – I’ve bitten the bullet and downloaded FYE…

    I guess resistance must be futile.

    I’ll also download Allison’s album when it becomes available: loved what I heard on that streaming site.

  5. @fadetowhite hey am glad you like the music… Ultimately the boy can saaang

  6. Is Allisons full album streaming now or only half of the songs. I liked scar that leaked the other day.

  7. Danny singing My Best Days and It’s Only live at a holiday performance outside Milwaukee yesterday. This was a locally advertised event, Danny wanted to accept the town’s invitation due to family and friends in the area.

    It seems to have been a bigger crowd than I would have guessed, read someone saying they had as many as 1500 tickets for sale and nearly sold out, for what wasn’t really a true concert. Danny did four songs in his appearance, which was part of a town celebration of the holidays and awards recognition to honor some local citizens.

    It’s Only — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHP_cNZYJ4I

    My Best Days — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GmOF83JDb8

    PYT with local kids, and an impromptu exercise class, lol — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0azm-u50CY

  8. OK – half way through giving FYE a proper listen and it is damned good.

    I could become a convert…

    Hopefully, the stuff that’s been putting me off will die down sooner rather than later.

    Love Soaked.

  9. Danny sounded pretty good! My Best Days is more radio-friendly and a better first single, but It’s Only is good when performed live. It will be interesting to see if the Country world embraces Danny. He’s very comfortable on stage and his voice has such a distinctive tone, two big pluses.

  10. Is Allisons full album streaming now or only half of the songs. I liked scar that leaked the other day.

    mj posted a thread yesterday with a link that is streaming the entire album here.

  11. You know ‘“ I’ve listened to the clips from Lambert’s record again ‘“ now that all that AMA, ‘I’m a poor persecuted soul’ bs has died down ‘“ and I’m beginning to kind of like it!

    If this carries on, I might just break down and buy the damned thing.

    I’m just stubbornly resisting the media hoopla’ ¦I truely cannot stand that kind of audience manipulation.

    But, I have to admit, even if through gritted teeth, it is kind of good.

    Dammit. Lol

    I think a lot of people do not want to be told what they should listen to. When my husband says “listen to this song, I think you’ll like it” for some reason I don’t feel like listening. However when he just turns it on while working or something, I might think – wow what a great song. On that note….I’m glad you decided to listen to the album and decide for yourself.

  12. I asked this on the other thread, but this seems to be the livlier one: Anyone know when Adam’s performing on Ellen?

  13. Anyone know when Adam’s performing on Ellen?

    Tuesday, December 1st.

  14. I asked this on the other thread, but this seems to be the livlier one: Anyone know when Adam’s performing on Ellen?

    Taping is tomorrow airing on Tuesday. My money would be on his performing WWFM or Music Again. I have a feeling that FYE has been banished from television performances.

  15. clearone
    11/29/2009 at 11:06 am
    Glad to know that Adam won’t kiss just anyone’ ¦’ ¦

    LOL!
    Well, duh! Tommy happens to be pretty cute… Not at all like kissing some smelly paparazzi… :-)

  16. Danny sounded pretty good! My Best Days is more radio-friendly and a better first single, but It’s Only is good when performed live. It will be interesting to see if the Country world embraces Danny. He’s very comfortable on stage and his voice has such a distinctive tone, two big pluses.

    This is one of the better performances I’ve seen of It’s Only, which is a pretty demanding song to do live. My Best Days is usually very good when he’s been video’ed doing it live on the radio tour, but it’s a different energy with a big live crowd like that. I’d bet it would be even more fun with a real band behind Danny, vs. just the recorded track here.

    Danny is scheduled to perform at a country music club next Friday evening, as part of a Christmas fundraising weekend sponsored by a Raleigh NC country music station. That may be the first country music venue he’s appearing at live, so will be interesting how he’s received. I’d assume well, as he is a good live performer and usually makes a nice connection with his audiences in person.

    There’s at least one more country music club appearance coming up on the 16th, also in NC (Charlotte), plus the continuing radio/promo tour starting up again in a day or two.

  17. I think a lot of people do not want to be told what they should listen to.

    Spot on.

    Also love Sleepwalker.

  18. Yeah, I can’t imagine anyone kissing a paparazzi. On the other hand, Tommy? I’d kiss him for sure.

  19. clearone
    11/29/2009 at 11:11 am
    I asked this on the other thread, but this seems to be the livlier one: Anyone know when Adam’s performing on Ellen?

    Taping is tomorrow airing on Tuesday. My money would be on his performing WWFM or Music Again. I have a feeling that FYE has been banished from television performances.

    I so agree..it probably has been banned lol…

  20. the Rolling Stone ad is the same as the posters that I have seen plastered around NYC

  21. I think a lot of people do not want to be told what they should listen to.

    Or, apparently, whom to kiss.

  22. hey- didn’t Britney go out with a paparazzi guy? Just sayin’ ¦

    U R right. And for all I know he was a heck of a nice guy but it was during her “lost soul” period.

  23. the Rolling Stone ad is the same as the posters that I have seen plastered around NYC

    You’re not kidding about plastered. I only have to walk a couple of minutes to my work in NYC, and I pass the billboard in several spots on the way. RCA\19E really aren’t sparing anything with Adam’s rollout.

  24. clearone
    11/29/2009 at 11:06 am

    Glad to know that Adam won’t kiss just anyone’ ¦’ ¦

    See he is not such a deviant after all….he does have restraint and morals. But I think we both know that, it is when he tries to be Mr. Rock n Roll, Mr. Rebel, that we want to smack him upside his head… :-) OMG I just turned into my parents….ugh!…LOL

  25. Glad to see FYE is still hanging out in the top 10 on iTunes.

    Overall
    Deluxe – 10
    Regular – 43

    Pop
    Deluxe – 5
    Regular – 13

  26. I seriously wonder if RCA knows what it’s doing.

    Having listened to Lambert’s album, I have no idea why they weren’t setting up proper opportunities to get some music out there for several weeks before the album drop and the AMAs. It would have given that performance a bit of real-life structural support, beacuse some good music would have been heard and would have lessened the pressure on it.

    What they did release seemed to be totally half hearted and wasn’t really the best songs on the album.

    I know that the album is going to sell well, but with a solid base of actual songs to give exposure, IMO, it could have done even better in its opening week. And it also would have countered the feeling that this guy was being pushed and planted on the music buying public based on nothing more than media bs.

    Why didn’t they do an Archie and release the strongest song on the album at the end of the AI tour?

    I’ve followed up FYE with my re-mix of Cook’s album: which still sounds nothing like Nickleback or Daughtry :lol

    It starts with Kiss on The Neck, mixes the slower softer stuff in with the harder, rawer stuff, removes the first 4 songs and adds in Souvenir, WOHWWS, Anodyne, Silver, Breathe Tonight and My Last Request. And that makes for a great album: yup an indie rock album, again IMO.

    I won’t even go into the singles choice for DC, but I do believe that RCA totally screwed up there as well: even if they did the actual album release a bit better.

  27. You’re not kidding about plastered. I only have to walk a couple of minutes to my work in NYC, and I pass the billboard in several spots on the way. RCA\19E really aren’t sparing anything with Adam’s rollout.

    Is he up on the Times Square Billboard?

  28. So Maks, Mary Murphy and Kym Johnson are all going to be in “Burn The Floor” at the same time? I might just have to break down and buy a ticket. That should be some show!

  29. On another note: I’d never bought an AI album before Cook’s last year.

    With FYE and Allison’s album, I’ll have bought 3 in the past two years.

  30. clearone
    11/29/2009 at 11:06 am

    Glad to know that Adam won’t kiss just anyone’ ¦’ ¦

    See he is not such a deviant after all’ ¦.he does have restraint and morals. But I think we both know that, it is when he tries to be Mr. Rock n Roll, Mr. Rebel, that we want to smack him upside his head’ ¦ OMG I just turned into my parents’ ¦.ugh!’ ¦LOL

    Hee…….it happens to us all eventually! …..and you’re right about trying to be Mr Rock n Roll….

    Having listened to Lambert’s album, I have no idea why they weren’t setting up proper opportunities to get some music out there properly for several weeks before the album drop and the AMAs. It would have given that performance a bit of real-life structural support, beacuse some good music would have been heard and would have lessened the pressure on it.

    What they did release seemed to be totally half hearted and wasn’t really the best songs on the album.

    ITA.

  31. I watched Ellen’s show featuring Lady Gaga on Friday. She performed two songs and was interviewed. I expect the same for Adam because when they were showing who was coming up on Tuesday they only mentioned him. There may be another guest but he definitely was being promoted as the main one. Wonder if he’ll do WWFM andMusic Again. That show is taped so maybe we’ll see FYE but I doubt it. I think it would just serve to prolong the AMA discussion and he’d be better served performing songs that show off his amazing vocals.

    The paps like to say things to get a reaction from Adam so I think asking for kisses was actually kind of cute, and apparently Adam was amused. I thoughtthe AMA kiss was hot and won’t complain if Adam kisses more pretty boys on camera!

  32. See he is not such a deviant after all’ ¦.he does have restraint and morals. But I think we both know that, it is when he tries to be Mr. Rock n Roll, Mr. Rebel, that we want to smack him upside his head’ ¦ OMG I just turned into my parents’ ¦.ugh!’ ¦LOL

    Dhunken,
    I love Adam’s Mr. Rock and Roll, and Mr. Rebel persona (AMA performance not withstanding) but after listening to his Slezak interview where he talked about how his fan energy helped direct his performing persona, I wonder about the impact of all “our” over the topness. (All in fun, and from the heart… but still.)

    – The Dark Lord Screamanova
    – Rock God (judges and fans)
    – HBIC
    – Glittery Alien from Planet Fierce
    – Boas, whips, and other sex toys thrown on stage during the tour
    – All the fuss over the glam bulge

    I love that Adam takes our energy and channels it into his performances… but I also hope he realizes that the “rock god” “glittery alien” … heck even the “glam bulge” are all part of the “sexy” we get from him even when he’s not revving it up for us. (For me anyway.)

  33. Im thinking (hoping, praying) that Adam will kiss plenty of pretty boys in the future both on and off camera. And yeah there will be plenty of risque performances too. Not perhaps on Ellen but definitely in the future. Anyone hoping otherwise is really really fooling themselves IMO

  34. Is he up on the Times Square Billboard?

    No — from what i have seen it is just the posters plastered at construction sites etc.

  35. Im thinking (hoping, praying) that Adam will kiss plenty of pretty boys in the future both on and off camera.

    On camera? If he starts doing it just for the camera isn’t that turning him into a famewhore?

  36. I watched Ellen’s show featuring Lady Gaga on Friday. She performed two songs and was interviewed. I expect the same for Adam

    It says on Ellen’s website that Marisa Miller will also be a guest, and

    Also, another couple has been voted off “So You Think You Can Dance,” but I voted to have them here on my show to perform a routine for us.
    http://ellen.warnerbros.com/2009/12/adam_lambert_-_tuesday_december_1_2009.php

    Maybe the SYTYCD routine will mean that Adam will perform only one song?

  37. raka
    11/29/2009 at 12:11 pm
    Im thinking (hoping, praying) that Adam will kiss plenty of pretty boys in the future both on and off camera. And yeah there will be plenty of risque performances too. Not perhaps on Ellen but definitely in the future. Anyone hoping otherwise is really really fooling themselves IMO

    ITA- And I want to be there, front row!

  38. I know that the album is going to sell well, but with a solid base of actual songs to give exposure, IMO, it could have done even better in its opening week. And it also would have countered the feeling that this guy was being pushed and planted on the music buying public based on nothing more than media bs.

    This is a really valid point but I think there are reasons the rollout happened as it did. From the sketchy reports we have it seems they were still recording and finetuning things up to the eleventh hour. I believe GaGa was a late surprise addition. If I remember my timeline correctly, they were having a listening party at Adam’s house one weekend, celebrating the final song selections, and the next weekend FYE (the single) was launched. And that was approximately 3 weeeks before the AMA’s.

    TfM was a great opportunity but it may have delayed the first single being put out right away. Plus it took up a good chunk of his time (video, red carpet, interviews). The AMA was also a major distraction requiring meetings, dancer selections, rehearsals, etc. We’re not privy to a lot of information so it’s really hard to judge, but clearly these guys are not geniuses, I’ll give you that! lol.

    What they did release seemed to be totally half hearted and wasn’t really the best songs on the album.

    I think WWFM will blow up big. Just my prediction. The 13 to 15 year old crowd, both male and female, that I know – like it. It’s got enough of a rockerish edge and it shows off his pipes.

  39. Is adam supposed to be on Larry King Live in the near future? I find it funny that Larry follows him on twitter

  40. Is adam supposed to be on Larry King Live in the near future?

    I think someone suggested that Adam would be on LKL on 12/15 but the actual date hasn’t been confirmed.

  41. Laurel – yeah, I get that the album was still being finalised, right up to launch almost.

    But: some of those songs had to have been ready way earlier?

    I know nothing about the recording industry, but couldn’t they have said a couple of months ago: this is a really strong song, we know it’s going to be on the record, we’ll release it now and build a solid base?

    It just seems to me that they’ve done a great job of launching Lambert as a media talking point and a terrible one of launching him as a musical artist. Now they’re having to un-do the damage of the AMAs – and I mean the lacklustre performance, not the ‘controversy’ which I couldn’t give two hoots about, other than I think it was used and exaggerated for cheap publicity and to mask a poor launch.

    Yes, I do think they will do it.

    But the whole thing could have been much, much stronger.

    I have to say that I do find the radio response to the singles, so far, puzzling.

  42. My point of course is that a simple kiss should never be a big enough deal to “garner a reaction from people”… Let the boy kiss whomever he likes whenever he likes… I would prefer them to be pretty but thats just for aesthetic reasons

  43. “clearone
    11/29/2009 at 11:06 am

    Glad to know that Adam won’t kiss just anyone’ ¦’ ¦”

    Clearone, you are too funny. I bet a lot of fans wish he would just kiss anyone, lol.

  44. Today, November 29, 2009, 9 minutes ago
    Meganjoysings: Guess what day it is!!!? Megan music day…. for those of you anxiously waiting… I LOVE YOU… only a few hours away.

  45. I don’t really care who Adam kisses, nor do I care who Kelly, the two Davids, or Carrie smooch. And as for praying that any of them settle down and get married, I’m not their parent so that would be a stretch. Of course, Adam can’t get married anyway but that’s beside the point. Or is it?

  46. Hopefully someone who goes to the Ellen show taping will tweet or post something about it, but…when Kris was on last week, he did one song and had a very brief interview. And that was despite Ellen having just one other guest (Penelope Cruz) on the show. Ellen does a lot of audience interaction stuff which takes up time, and if there are going to be SYTYCD people on as well, it’s more likely that Adam will only be performing one song. Maybe he will get a longer interview segment than what Kris did, since Kris has been on Ellen before while Adam hasn’t (in person anyway).

  47. I have to say that I do find the radio response to the singles, so far, puzzling.

    When Elton John came out, many US stations wouldn’t play his music either. Does that give you a hint?

  48. It just seems to me that they’ve done a great job of launching Lambert as a media talking point and a terrible one of launching him as a musical artist.

    Well, I would argue we’re still in the midst of his launch, so perhaps 6 months from now we’ll have a better perspective on how they did.

  49. Megan music day’ ¦. for those of you anxiously waiting’ ¦ I LOVE YOU’ ¦ only a few hours away.

    What a sense of humor, that girl. “Anxiously waiting….” Tee, hee, hee, ha, ha, ha, ha!

    ETA: Does she mean music without vocals (instrumental)?

  50. Of course, Adam can’t get married anyway but that’s beside the point.

    He could here in Canada.

  51. When Elton John came out, the US wouldn’t play his music either. Does that give you a hint?

    Did they stop playing George Michael too?

    From a UK perspective, I find that all a bit puzzling too.

  52. With Adam taping Ellen tomorrow and all the chat about music, kissing and well-wishing, it occurs to me that I have a wish I’d like to make public:

    Adam, if you’d like to please your fans (at least this one) and also show Tommy some public love, next time you’re taping, would you please lean over and, ever so nicely, turn up his amp? You’ve got the beat and the high-end nicely covered in a million ways, but if you really want people to get up and dance, a little more thump in the low end would be much appreciated. It’s the only thing I’m really missing on both the album and the live performances, but it really is a big thing to miss. Thx.

  53. When Elton John came out, the US wouldn’t play his music either. Does that give you a hint?

    Did they stop playing George Michael too?

    From a UK perspective, I find that all a bit puzzling too.

    Yes, he got the same reaction from the US as Elton John.

  54. BestAI, do you really believe that is what it is? Am I just refusing to believe it cause I don’t want it to be true. I honestly never thought of that as being the reason. I thought it was the lyrics were to controversial….. do they censor the rap songs about murdering your mother and killing cops too? I am obviously living in my own little world…sigh

  55. When Elton John came out, many US stations wouldn’t play his music either. Does that give you a hint?

    “Anybody but the gay guy.”
    When I was growing up I heard Boy George a lot on the radio, and Frankie Goes To Hollywood. I don’t think we thought they were straight.

  56. I am hoping that WWFM will be what it takes to get radio firmly on board. His CD is excellent. Radio could easily embrace a lot of the music on the album, but they have to embrace Adam first.

    Ross, it isn’t just the homosexuality. Rather, I think it is his “in your face” personality and the over-the-topness/ridiculosity that Adam loves. He has a big, often polarizing, personality; and the “gayness” is a part of that.

  57. Where are you reading about ‘Sure Fire Winners’ ?

    It’s one of the songs featured in the Adam ad. Also on the CD sticker?

  58. Did they stop playing George Michael too?

    From a UK perspective, I find that all a bit puzzling too.

    Yes, he got the same reaction from the US as Elton John.

    Well, I guess that puts things in perspective a bit.

    Did they start playing them again after a while?

  59. BestAI, do you really believe that is what it is? Am I just refusing to believe it cause I don’t want it to be true. I honestly never thought of that as being the reason. I thought it was the lyrics were to controversial’ ¦.. do they censor the rap songs about murdering your mother and killing cops too? I am obviously living in my own little world’ ¦sigh

    I am really bothered by this as well. Lets see what happens to WWFM. Nothing controversial about that song and it is defientely good enough to get spins. All eyes on the radio stations.

  60. I wonder if Adam and Tommy will make out on Ellen!!!

    Just kidding, ha ha! BTW, Adam mentioned this week that both he and Tommy have heard from a lot of women who enjoyed he kiss. He wasn’t complaining about either. Guess he didn’t realize that means we don’t want either of them to find happiness with a partner.

    I think Adam is going to get more airtime than Kris. He is being promoted as the main guest for very obvious guests. I don’t see any reason to compare the opportunities they get at this point as it is like co
    paring apples and oranges.

  61. Webster! how timely. Right when I am reading this blog! I had my hubby watch my recorded Early Show of Adam. I asked my hubby to please point out the beat of the bass guitar because although I could see Tommy’s fingers moving, I couldn’t hear anything. He couldn’t hear it either.

    Yes, please turn Tommy up!

    And what the heck is the heartbeat like sound in the front of the music on FYE. It drives me to distraction. I can’t seem to put it behind Adam’s voice now that I’ve noticed it.

  62. BestAI, do you really believe that is what it is? Am I just refusing to believe it cause I don’t want it to be true. I honestly never thought of that as being the reason. I thought it was the lyrics were to controversial’ ¦.. do they censor the rap songs about murdering your mother and killing cops too? I am obviously living in my own little world’ ¦sigh

    Let’s hope the US radio stations are becoming more progressive now. Adam has done many radio interviews recently, so hopefully they will start playing his songs. We will soon see if he gets tons of spins because he has some really good, radio friendly songs.

  63. Re: Adam’s singles — even tho FYE is my son’s favorite, I’m not sure it was the best choice for a first single for a whole host of reasons. However, it will be interesting to see what happens with WWFM — has been added by 3 of the biggest stations in US (z100, kiis and plj), played on OHP, getting good respose, he is singing it on TV etc. If in two months it appears that radio is refusing to play it, then I think we may all have the answer to the question of what whether radio will accept an openly gay pop star at the beginning of his career. I’m not using the “gay issue” as an excuse, but what else would the reason be? The album is selling well, much of the music on FYE is radio friendly (haven’t heard a single critic say it is not), people seem to really like WWFM, Adam has lots of name recognition, one would assume that RCA is doing what it is supposed to do to get radio airplay, etc. etc. I remember when Ellen came out her show was cancelled within a year and she basically disappeared from view for a while, couldn’t get a good job. You know what resurrected her career? Finding Nemo! She did a brilliant job as a fish and her career was back on track a few years later. I hope that we have come a long long way since then. If not, I hope that Pixar can work Adam into one of its upcoming releases.

  64. Sorry for all the typos. Can’t edit on an Iphone. I meant obvious reasons (current controversies).

  65. I hope Adam sings two songs on ellen, the same two from ABC Early Show (WWFM and “Music Again”). If he only sings once, I’m sure it will be WWFM.

    I would assume, too, from the RS ad that “Sure Fire Winners” is planned as the next single after “Music Again,” but wouldn’t it be too soon to throw another one out there? or not?

  66. If Adam can’t get radio in the US to play his songs I think they’d focus on the international market and then maybe get US radio to accept him the backdoor way. I think that is what happened to Gaga, no? And KOL as well.

  67. When George Michael “came out” (or was outed) he was no longer at the peak of his popularity, was he? Originally he had controversy on the radio (1987) with the song, I Want Your Sex, which was considered to be about (straight) promiscuity.

  68. And what the heck is the heartbeat like sound in the front of the music on FYE. It drives me to distraction. I can’t seem to put it behind Adam’s voice now that I’ve noticed it.

    OMG Tara… yes to your above statement. I have grown to like FYE, but depending on the stereo/computer/etc. that I’m listening on… sometimes that “beat” is just too distracting.

    On WYWFM, I do think… as the DJ on Open House Party said last night… “it’s blowin up!”. It’s already surpassing FYE on mediabase. And with Adam performing it on Letterman the Early Show, presumably Ellen, and later today on OHP — they seem to be really working it.

  69. Or, maybe there are other plans for “Sure Fire Winners.” It could definitely be a sports anthem song. There may be other promotional plans for it already.

  70. George Michael and Elton John not getting played on American radio? I love Elton, but hasn’t he being doing soundtracks and such. I haven’t heard much from him in a while. I thought it was more about him kicking back and enjoying life now that he doesn’t have to claw his way to the top … not about being gay.

    Back in the day .. when he was getting a lot of radio play — he was very flamboyant. I mean, the outfits where…. Wow!

  71. Megan music day’ ¦. for those of you anxiously waiting’ ¦ I LOVE YOU’ ¦ only a few hours away.

    What a sense of humor, that girl. ‘Anxiously waiting’ ¦.’  Tee, hee, hee, ha, ha, ha, ha!

    ETA: Does she mean music without vocals (instrumental)?

    Awww. Well, I won’t argue Megan doesn’t have some bad vocal performances, especially when tackling songs ill-suited to her particular (narrow and quirky) vocal niche / abilities. Where she did hit the right material though, and was on, she was always one of my favorites from this year.

    Not sure I could characterize myself as ‘anxiously waiting’ — but will say, I am actually kind of interested to hear what Megan comes up with. It could be a train wreck, or with the right material, it could be pretty good. Outside the top 5, maybe even top 3, she’s the most interesting singer for me from AI8, even if not in any way the ‘best’ singer.

  72. When Elton John came out, many US stations wouldn’t play his music either. Does that give you a hint?

    Elton John himself admits that the stuff he produced immediately after “coming out” in RollingStone was sub-par compared to his earlier works. He was having a lot of problems with drugs at that time, retired from touring and even started writing with a new lyricist. Once he got his life back together in the 80s, he had radio hits (such as “I Guess That’s Why They Call it the Blues” which peaked at top 4). He’s had other hits since then such as “Can You Feel The Love Tonight” which went to number 2 on the Hot Airplay chart.

    Given that the two largest pop stations in the US (KIIS and Z100) added WWFM before the song even went for adds, it seems that the problem was the original single and not those radio stations being homophobic. Given that it’s virtually unheard of for KIIS and Z100 to do that prior to the add date, I think it demonstrates that they are open to playing an openly gay artist, the song just has to work for their format.

    And, BTW, before we start slandering Clear Channel again, I’d like to point out that both of those stations are part of the Clear Channel network. CC should be receiving bouquets, not brickbats.

  73. I really don’t believe the failure of FYE as a single has anything to due with prejudice. Remember the first day when it came out, all the radio stations rushed to play it? It seems like everyone was very excited to finally get Adam’s single. Only after that initial excitement did it start to falter.

    IMHO, it’s just not a good song. It doesn’t have much of a hook and it gets boring and repetitive after a while. WWFM is much better.

  74. George Michael was never out during the Wham period and not during the first solo years either. I remember him coming out quiet late. I don’t think Boy George was clealry out duing his Culture Club years either. People suspected though.

    From wiki
    When George was with Culture Club, much was made of his androgynous appearance, and there was speculation about his sexuality. When asked in interviews, George gave various answers. At times, such as when interviewed by Barbara Walters, he stated he was bisexual[citation needed]. He gave a famous, often quoted response to an interviewer that he preferred “a nice cup of tea” to sex.[20]

  75. girlygirl
    11/29/2009 at 12:51 pm

    Hopefully someone who goes to the Ellen show taping will tweet or post something about it, but’ ¦when Kris was on last week, he did one song and had a very brief interview. And that was despite Ellen having just one other guest (Penelope Cruz) on the show. Ellen does a lot of audience interaction stuff which takes up time, and if there are going to be SYTYCD people on as well, it’s more likely that Adam will only be performing one song. Maybe he will get a longer interview segment than what Kris did, since Kris has been on Ellen before while Adam hasn’t (in person anyway).

    Plus it is the start of her 12 days of Christmas extravaganza. (I am pretty sure)

  76. And George Michael, as a solo (with the album, Faith), originally had trouble on radio for another reason, not related (as far as I know) to his sexual orietation, which, as far as anyone knew at the time, was straight.

    During my teenage years, I loved that album. Still do. It’s filled with some fabulous pop music.

    There is a pretty drastic difference between George Michael’s radio play during the period when we all thought he was a hetero guy dating the hot models in his videos, and later after he came out of the closet. But, that could just as easily be because Faith was that lightening in a bottle album, loaded with the right music at the right time, and what came later was just not as good. I wouldn’t necessarily assume that the lack of later radio play had a homophobic reason behind it. I guess you can’t discount it either.

    Also, George didn’t just come out as a gay man. He kept getting caught with his pants down in anonymous public sex situations. As far as the general public goes, that’s a little like a hetero celebrity getting busted for picking up a hooker. Those circumanstances were probably more damaging to his career than the simple fact that he was gay.

  77. Sure Fire Winners = Super Bowl Half Time Show

    The cheerleaders, I’m sure, could dance to THAT!!! Here’s hoping.

  78. I love FYE and hate WYWFM but obviously I have no clue how american radio works. Whatever I just want a hit single so I dont really care. Ill just look forward to seeing the vid on my television channels here since we really do love our videos in India!

  79. The week that was
    AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS: Adam Lambert shocked America by simulating oral sex on stage. Madonna sent him a bouquet of roses after the show.

    Madonna approves.

  80. George Michael was never out during the Wham period and not during the first solo years either. I remember him coming out quiet late. I don’t think Boy George was clealry out duing his Culture Club years either. People suspected though.

    I was a little confused by the original statement. I took when they “came out” to mean debuting as artists. I didn’t think it was referring to coming out of the closet. So therein lies my mix up.

    Well, anyway, that was years ago, and as I said, we accepted Frankie Goes To Hollywood and of course the Village People, so I don’t think gay acts never got any radio play.

  81. steph6449: I am actually kind of interested to hear what Megan comes up with.

    Megan’s gorgeous. Acting would be a better gig for her. If she was not gorgeous, she would not have landed a spot on AI. Inviting her onto AI symbolizes some of what’s wrong with the show — giving spots to folks based on factors other than genuine vocal talent. In doing so, a precious opportunity was denied to someone with real vocal talent.

  82. Adam isn’t likely to perform Sure Fire Winners anytime soon. He needs to focus on WWFM — he can’t just willy nilly sing a different song at every appearance, or he will never get anything to go high on the charts.

    If he is doing a concert, or even a mini-concert where he will perform more than one song, then he can do SFW or any other song he likes. But in appearances in which he’s only doing one song, it would be either FYE or WWFM. Probably WWFM, since that seems to be the one the label has decided to try and push.

    And as for Adam performing at the halftime of this year’s Super Bowl — um, nice pipe dream, but nope. They have already picked the halftime act for Super Bowl 44.

    http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d8147baad&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

  83. I don’t think Boy George was clealry out duing his Culture Club years either. People suspected though.

    Hell, for the first few months we couldn’t even decide on a specific gender much less sexual orientation.

  84. Ross, it isn’t just the homosexuality. Rather, I think it is his ‘in your face’  personality and the over-the-topness/ridiculosity that Adam loves. He has a big, often polarizing, personality; and the ‘gayness’  is a part of that.

    And it’s also just that he’s *new* and unknown to radio — They don’t know whether he’ll bring in listeners for them. They know they’re making money with the people they’re playing, and so they’re reluctant to give over much time to people who are unknown quantities in the money-making department. They’re in business, and when you read about the radio business, you hear over and over again from record labels and others that U.S. radio today tends to be slower than in the past to embrace new performers, period. Kris also suffered from this.

    An awful lot of songs and performers are slow to start on radio today, especially when they’re just a wee bit different from what and who are currently being played. We’re used to hearing pop in the FYE vein sung by women, so the song was likely to be a slow starter because of that, as well.

  85. I think that Adam’s music would get a lot of radio play here in the UK .. our radio stations have no problem whether an artists straight/bi/gay or whatever .. as long as it’s good music or marketable (well we also play a lot of crap too .. lol) .. he only time’s I’ve know stuff be banned from being played is The Sex Pistols “God Save The Queen” and Frankie Goes To Hollywood’s “Relax” . . and that was for swearing and overly sexual lyrics .. plus that was a long long time ago and all it did was make the records soar up to number 1 in the charts. times have moved on though and the records are played now and Frankie’s relax is even used in a nationwide TV advert for Virgin airlines.

    To me .. most of the tracks on Adam’s album would fit perfectly with a lot of our radio stations playlists.

  86. I think the fact that people like George Michael and Elton John haven’t been as successful after coming out has a lot more to do with the fact that their music sorta sucked. Their earlier stuff is way better than their more recent stuff — IMO any way.

    And pretty much everyone I knew back when I was a kid listening to Wham! or Elton on the radio was saying that these guys were gay long before they actually came out. It wasn’t really much of a surprise to me or any of my childhood friends.

  87. Thanks for the link to the superbowl halftime info! I’ll be watching.

  88. IMHO, it’s just not a good song. It doesn’t have much of a hook and it gets boring and repetitive after a while.

    Well, I kind of agree with this as a description of FYE. But I don’t think it explains much about the radio play, since it seems to me that virtually every top 10 pop song out there sounds boring and repetitious on repeated listens. Sometimes I think that’s the prerequisite for being the top song. (Now, I will say that many have catchier hooks than FYE — but they’re virtually all just as boring and repetitive, if you ask me!)

  89. I do think the problem with FYE was that it was a male singing. Lyrically, it is no more controversial than a lot of what is played on Top 40. I think maybe some were uncomfortable hearing a guy sing something like this. It probably could have been successful with time, but I think RCA wants a quick hit, and I also think that AMA performance killed any chance it might have had.

  90. Also, George didn’t just come out as a gay man. He kept getting caught with his pants down in anonymous public sex situations. As far as the general public goes, that’s a little like a hetero celebrity getting busted for picking up a hooker. Those circumanstances were probably more damaging to his career than the simple fact that he was gay.

    Of course one reason some gay men get caught in such situations is that they follow the lead of the culture and end up hating and fearing their own sexuality. But then of course all we straight people blame them for being dirty boys who’ve harmed their own careers. … Sickening, to me.

  91. Roger Daltry always sings well. IMO

    ETA: Forgive a quick OT post to highly recommend “Pirate Radio”. Saw it last night. It’s really funny and the soundtrack is unbelievable.

  92. I do think the problem with FYE was that it was a male singing. Lyrically, it is no more controversial than a lot of what is played on Top 40. I think maybe some were uncomfortable hearing a guy sing something like this. It probably could have been successful with time, but I think RCA wants a quick hit, and I also think that AMA performance killed any chance it might have had.

    That sounds right to me.

  93. Adam’s roll out is Adam’s roll out and I am not in position to question people in the business. With that said here is what I think they should have done with the Adam Roll out…..I think at the AMA’s he should have sung “Sure Fire Winner”…the song hints to his sexuality (and is sort of sexy) The vocals on that song would have placed him on the map as far as the AMA audience. (not that what he did didn’t just a different reaction) an Alternative song would have been Master Plan. (imagine at the end of that song he kisses Tommy without any overt sexual imagery. The controversy in that would be off the hook without any cancellation and bring up the same discussion of double standards. Plus it would address the fear of main stream America feeling that gays want to make everyone gay. It would be hysterical.) I would have had him do the FYE performance for the next MTV music video awards which I am sure he would be invited too. I feel the performance is more of an MTV kind of in your face performance. But this is just how I think. He still would have been himself but have enraged a lot less people and still be the topic of conversation. But still Love him and LOVE his album.

  94. Megan’s gorgeous. Acting would be a better gig for her. If she was not gorgeous, she would not have landed a spot on AI. Inviting her onto AI symbolizes some of what’s wrong with the show ‘” giving spots to folks based on factors other than genuine vocal talent. In doing so, a precious opportunity was denied to someone with real vocal talent.

    For me, Megan does have some talent as a singer/performer, but it’s just in a very narrow range vocally, and a niche type of song. I have read some comments by industry people also, who thought she had potential as a recording artist. Will be curious how / if that translates into whatever music she’s now promising to put forward this month.

    Seeing performers with a wide range of musical and personal styles is one of the things that does make the show interesting to me.

    Megan also is very pretty and seems to have a fun personality, so I could see her doing a range of things besides singing. Lil also seemed to have those two qualities also when she was shown to best advantage (usually during the tour in interviews, not on the show IMO). But I’m much more interested to hear what kind of music Megan may be trying out, than Lil or most of the other top 6-10 placers this year. Lil seems like she might be fun to watch as a tv personality, but musically I find her very dull.

  95. Ddi anyone think the Village People singing about hanging out with all the boys at the YMCA was about a nice conversation and a game of chess? That was, what, 35 years ago? I really don’t buy the idea that prejudice against artists’ sexual orientation is going to get him (or her) banned from the radio at this late date. If you want to think that, I respect your opinion. I’m just not of that opinion.

  96. I agree, Ross. I also believe it was the song. Adam’s new song is already seeing a better reception than FYE. I don’t believe he changed his sexual orientation between songs.

  97. George Michael was past the peak of his career when he was outed. When his critically acclaimed album Listen Without Prejudice was released, he declined to support it, choosing to not even appear in the videos made off the album. It’s a great album, but probably didn’t appeal to the that followed him in Wham. It’s a little darker. He has an absolutely beautiful voice IMO. Some things about him remind me of Adam, but he was at a time when coming out would have been career suicide. It was not that long ago. I’ve always felt and continue to feel that the biggest risk to Adam’s success, the “wild card” if you will, is him being rejected because he is gay. Just read the comments on many a website and you will see such ugliness it’s hard to imagine anyone directing at another human being. I believe this is absolutely why Adam wasn’t signed before AI. As gay friendly as the entertainment industry is, they were afraid Adam would not be accepted enough for them to make money off of him, regardless of his unbelievable talent. I think the industry execs are shocked that Adam has become a sex symbol to a lot of straight women.

  98. I still don’t get the FYE is a failure thing. It is #29 on itunes and this week was as high as #23. It has stayed between 25-30 all week. This after it went as high as #72. I would agree that a bump of one or two days could be from the AMA’s but not after a week. Now radio play may not be picking it up but people are buying it. Conversely Kris is doing great on Radio but not so good sales wise #53. Honestly both there numbers don’t make sense. You would think radio play means better sales or better sales means better radio play. I am so confused.

  99. Sure Fire Winners = Super Bowl Half Time Show
    The cheerleaders, I’m sure, could dance to THAT!!! Here’s hoping.

    As someone posted the Super Bowl halftime show is already set, but I think that would be a great song for the Glee kids to perform, maybe next year, probably too late for this year.

    P.S. I like the FYE single.

  100. Ddi anyone think the Village People singing about hanging out with all the boys at the YMCA was about a nice conversation and a game of chess? That was, what, 35 years ago?

    Well, yeah. I don’t know what I think about how radio is or is not embracing Adam. But I do know that no pop star (particularly no male) has launched a successful and sustained career in the US on the heels of openly and unapologetically “coming out” as gay. I also know that, sadly, our country has digressed at the same time that it has progressed on matters of civil rights, particularly so it seems in matters of sexual orientation. Something of an “overcorrection” of the 60s and 70s free love era, and in response to the AIDs epidemic, maybe? I don’t really know why… Personally, I blame Reagan. LOL

  101. And as for Adam performing at the halftime of this year’s Super Bowl ‘” um, nice pipe dream, but nope. They have already picked the halftime act for Super Bowl 44.

    Maybe next year.

  102. I have a question about the Ryan Seacrest Idol “Rock my Town” concert. I’m not familar with the “Rock my Town” thing and am curious about they whys.

    Why do it, who sponsors it (label)? If it’s free, how do they determine who gets tickets. Is it used as a market research thing?

    Does anyone have a better understanding of this type of event and its primary purpose?

    Thank you!

  103. I still don’t get the FYE is a failure thing. It is #29 on itunes and this week was as high as #23. It has stayed between 25-30 all week. This after it went as high as #72. I would agree that a bump of one or two days could be from the AMA’s but not after a week. Now radio play may not be picking it up but people are buying it.

    I also have to add that different forms of FYE (not just the ama’s) are getting huge hits on utube…It isn’t those of us who already own the album going there to check it out.

  104. Dhunken – I like your rollout plan! The Master Plan idea is very clever and both that and DTRH should have been on the CD. Maybe on an EP ifthings go well ? (fingers crossed)

  105. I still don’t get the FYE is a failure thing. It is #29 on itunes and this week was as high as #23. It has stayed between 25-30 all week. This after it went as high as #72. I would agree that a bump of one or two days could be from the AMA’s but not after a week. Now radio play may not be picking it up but people are buying it. Conversely Kris is doing great on Radio but not so good sales wise #53. Honestly both there numbers don’t make sense. You would think radio play means better sales or better sales means better radio play. I am so confused.

    Prior to the AMAs, LLWD was ahaead of FYE. LLWD has been out for a couple of months. It was at 130 or something prior to its increased radio play and other factors. I think the fact that it climbed back onto the charts and is now holding fairly steady is not a bad thing. This means people are buying it, not that they aren’t buying it. If they weren’t, it wouldn’t be there.

    FYE was also dropping and is now doing great in iTunes. I definitely think the fact that it was sung in front of a huge audience on national TV didn’t do it any harm, nor did the surrounding publicity controversy.

  106. Well now I am totally confused about US radio and their reaction to gay singers! :lol

    In any case, I’m still puzzled by the reaction to Lambert’s singles so far.

    I don’t think that they are the best songs on the album by a long way, but they are perfect top 40 pop songs. It must be possible for songs by singers with a lot of publicity – such as Idol produces – to take off quickly on radio. I’m sure that Archie’s single last year, which I thought was an absolutely awful song – sorry Archie and Archies, nothing personal – but which also fitted into the radio song lists perfectly, took off very quickly.

  107. Maybe next year, DLee, who knows. However, since 2005 (with a slight dip in 2008 for Tom Petty) The halftime shows have been Paul McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Prince, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, and now The Who. Adam has some mighty stiff competition!

  108. Conversely Kris is doing great on Radio but not so good sales wise #53. Honestly both there numbers don’t make sense.

    This appears to presume that the only musical format out there is Pop. LLWD is rated 84 on the Overall Spin Chart and 148 on the AI count (before recurrents are removed as of Wednesday, but it has had some good updates since then). So, it’s ranking higher on the iTunes chart than it is on radio, so I don’t think it’s doing all that badly.

    I would agree that a bump of one or two days could be from the AMA’s but not after a week.

    Normally, an award’s show bump is good for 3 to 4 days, but given the press this song has gotten through the controversy, I think we are still seeing the effects. It was in the news cycle for days (i.e. it’s not just the AMAs). Look at how WWFM quickly settled down into the 150s after the performances on Wednesday (and the album release). That should eventually pick up with airplay (although it’s still low on the spin counts, it’s AI is very high due the big stations spinning the crap out of it).

  109. I also have to add that different forms of FYE (not just the ama’s) are getting huge hits on utube’ ¦It isn’t those of us who already own the album going there to check it out.

    So is LLWD. One version has 620,000 hits, another has 320,000. If you add up the hits on the first few versions on YouTube it’s over a million.

    Of course in the days before YouTube people would have had to buy these songs to hear them, which is one reason they used to sell so well back then.

  110. I agree, Ross. I also believe it was the song. Adam’s new song is already seeing a better reception than FYE. I don’t believe he changed his sexual orientation between songs.

    What he/RCA did do was exchange a poppy song with kind of theatrical sexual lyrics for a more rocky song on a somewhat different topic. What I think radio was unsure it would accept is a man — gay *or* straight, although I’m sure the gay does play into the “good grief, this is too new, we’re nervous it won’t make cash” attitude at least a *little* bit — singing a poppy sex song, a la Britney and company. While black men sing aggressive rappy stuff about sex, singing about sex pretty explicitly but in a fun-poppy manner is pretty much entirely the province of women on radio today. And they weren’t sure that audiences would like the *new* thing — having a guy sing that sort of song. In my opinion, anyway.

  111. I have a question about the Ryan Seacrest Idol ‘Rock my Town’  concert. I’m not familar with the ‘Rock my Town’  thing and am curious about they whys.

    Why do it, who sponsors it (label)? If it’s free, how do they determine who gets tickets. Is it used as a market research thing?

    Does anyone have a better understanding of this type of event and its primary purpose?

    Thank you!

    This is an annual event which in the past just included winner of AI. I don’t know why this year they decided to include Adam and Allison (and why not Danny who came in ahead of Allison?).

    The city that pulls in the most votes will get a free concert in their town. I’m sure it’s another promotion for the winner for their album/tour.

  112. Yeah jersey, the Super Bowl half time show is typically reserved for mega-stars with really long track records. So, I wouldn’t be holding my breath for Adam to be appearing there any time soon.

    And, Tom Petty may not be Paul McCartney, but he’s still sold like 50 million albums or more. When one of the AI kids finds their way into the 50 million album club in the next decade or so, maybe they’ll get what might be the biggest single 15 minutes in any given tv year.

  113. This is an annual event which in the past just included winner of AI.

    They didn’t do it last year. But then, they didn’t do a lot of things last year.

  114. The halftime shows have been Paul McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Prince, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, and now The Who. Adam has some mighty stiff competition!

    They also have quite a few years on Adam which is because of the Super Bowl demographic!

  115. Maybe next year, DLee, who knows. However, since 2005 (with a slight dip in 2008 for Tom Petty) The halftime shows have been Paul McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Prince, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, and now The Who. Adam has some mighty stiff competition!

    Also mighty *old* competition. It would appear that they’re going for an older demographic with the Super Bowl. Until that changes, doesn’t look we’re going to see any Idols headlining that show.

  116. This is an annual event which in the past just included winner of AI. I don’t know why this year they decided to include Adam and Allison (and why not Danny who came in ahead of Allison?).

    The city that pulls in the most votes will get a free concert in their town. I’m sure it’s another promotion for the winner for their album/tour.

    An annual event? Really? I don’t ever remember this event and I’ve been an AI addict for quite a few years.

  117. Also mighty *old* competition. It would appear that they’re going for an older demographic with the Super Bowl. Until that changes, doesn’t look we’re going to see any Idols headlining that show.

    Yes, it will likely be a while, but Jordin did get to sing the National Anthem for the Super Bowl in 2008 (granted, it was in her home town and she’d just come off of winning Idol, but still).

  118. I still don’t get the FYE is a failure thing. It is #29 on itunes and this week was as high as #23. It has stayed between 25-30 all week. This after it went as high as #72. I would agree that a bump of one or two days could be from the AMA’s but not after a week.

    I’m with you, dhunken, I don’t think anyone can say it’s a complete failure anymore, but I actually DO think that it was resurrected by the AMAs. I think all the crazy stuff he did onstage got some people interested enough to check him out. Whether they liked the performance or not, I think it was interesting enough to make many people want to take another look. Initially, I was horrified by what he did, not because it personally offended me (I actually thought a lot of it was kinda hot and I admired Adam for being comfortable enough to be himself in front of 14 million people), but because I knew he had just done something so ground breaking that he was about to become the subject of major controversy. It made me sick to my stomach because I was so worried that he had just committed career suicide. Now, though, I’m beginning to think it was ingenious. He’s stayed in the media pretty consistently for an entire week after the performance, and, as the initial “shock” has worn off and CBS pretty much proved Adam’s point when they blurred out his and Tommy’s smooch, a lot of that press is somewhat favorable towards Adam or at least questions the decisions of both ABC and CBS. In one short performance, Adam rid himself of the Idol label, which I think can be more detrimental to a career than the controversy Adam has created. Those are just my thoughts as I watch all of this unfold.

  119. I totally understand the requisite radio play thing. But, I don’t listen to radio more than 5 minutes a week. So little meaning to me. Also, I totally luv fye and find wwfm boring. Just another opinion.

  120. They didn’t do it last year. But then, they didn’t do a lot of things last year.

    This is the first year I’ve heard about this event. So, I’m curious to know what other seasons they did this for, and what cities it wound up in.

  121. Superbowl: not just an older demographic. Those people are superstars who appeal to an across-the-board demographic. Then again, didn’t NKOTB play a Super Bowl halftime show once? And Justin Timberlake?
    I’m not really sure.

  122. Something of an ‘overcorrection’  of the 60s and 70s free love era, and in response to the AIDs epidemic, maybe? I don’t really know why’ ¦ Personally, I blame Reagan. LOL

    Me, too, I blame everything on Reagan. :)

    Actually, the country is often reactionary in bad economic times. I don’t necessarily think Adam’s radio play is all sexuality dependent; I like him on television but wouldn’t hang around to listen to his cd. I think people place too much importance on lyrics: I’ve heard drug songs I didn’t know were drug songs until twenty years later and heavily sexual songs that went over my head…..I may be exceptionally flaky, but I never could discern most lyrics and gave up trying. It’s a ten if it has a good beat and I can dance to it. Lady Gaga is an aerobic ten.

  123. Hmmm, I think I’ve just been called old by two different people in two posts. *grumble grumble*

    ETA: Kirsten, also don’t forget that Jordin’s dad is a retired NFL player.

  124. Maybe next year, DLee, who knows. However, since 2005 (with a slight dip in 2008 for Tom Petty) The halftime shows have been Paul McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Prince, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, and now The Who. Adam has some mighty stiff competition!

    OK, my superbowl half-time knowledge is pretty limited. I had no idea…I was really just thinking about the song and how it might pump up a crowd….how about Queen…with a cameo from Adam?

  125. Regarding acceptance on the radio of gays (if indeed it is an issue): Why is it okay for a singer to be a bisexual? Gaga? Lead singer of Green Day? That’s like saying it’s okay if you are 1/2 gay as long as the other 1/2 is hetero. Makes no sense to me.

  126. Hmmm, I think I’ve just been called old by two different people in two posts. *grumble grumble*

    Sorry! Meant no harm. I too am included in that demographic. It’s a great demographic!

  127. Hmmm, I think I’ve just been called old by two different people in two posts. *grumble grumble*

    Well, if you have to be old to recognize that the Rolling Stones, Springsteen and The Who all still kick some major ass, then sign me up.

  128. I may be exceptionally flaky, but I never could discern most lyrics and gave up trying. It’s a ten if it has a good beat and I can dance to it. Lady Gaga is an aerobic ten.

    Maybe that’s the whole problem, Adam enunciates too well!

  129. Maybe all three will appear at this Rock My Town event because all of the publicity it’s getting from Seacrest helps promote all three albums, more so than the event itself, which will only be seen by a group of people. Andeven those who aren’t fans of Adam have to admit that having him on there generates a lot of interest, rather than just Kris on his own. Having all three albums sell well helps the AI brand, at a time when people are questioning whether the show is still relevant, given declining Cd sales, which could of course be attributed to other factors like illegal downloads, etc.

    After nipplegate I don’t think we’ll see Adam on the superbowl halftime show anytime soon. Never say never, the Stones were considered pretty racy and nonconformist back in the day too.

  130. That’s like saying it’s okay if you are 1/2 gay as long as the other 1/2 is hetero. Makes no sense to me.

    Kind of like when people say about Obama “well, his mother is white.”

  131. Why is it okay for singer to be a bisexual? Gaga okay? Lead singer of Green Day okay? Etc.

    I’m not sure most folks are paying attention. I own The Fame Monster and didn’t know her sexuality until this morning. Who looks that stuff up? Well, maybe Reagan.

  132. That’s like saying it’s okay if you are 1/2 gay as long as the other 1/2 is hetero. Makes no sense to me.

    Aren’t you just making an assuption that radio is saying that? The artists who were mentioned are popular because people like their music, I’m pretty sure.

    On the station I listen to in Boston — Mix 104.1, which is, I guess, an HAC station — it’s a very popular station — there’s an openly gay, kind of flamboyant DJ/personality called Fast Freddie. If they have this guy on the air are they really not going to play a song by an artist who’s gay?

  133. Well, if you have to be old to recognize that the Rolling Stones, Springsteen and The Who all still kick some major ass, then sign me up.

    Social Security is a nice steady income. :)

  134. Regarding acceptance on the radio of gays (in indeed it is an issue): Why is it okay for singer to be a bisexual? Gaga okay? Lead singer of Green Day okay? Etc. That’s like saying it’s okay if you are only 1/2 gay as long as the other 1/2 is hetero. Makes no sense to me.

    I think it’s always been pretty acceptable for women — when two women commit sexual acts, all nearby straight men believe that they’re only doing it for the men’s benefit!

    And clearly “bi” from a man has *always* been more acceptable, since so many musicians who eventually came out as gay — like Freddie — have spent a long time advertising that they were “bi.” …. I think that a lot of folks may obscurely feel that as long as a man is attracted to women *kind of* then he probably isn’t “really” gay! … If he plays rock music, they may be even more loath to believe it!

    Green Day had a very very long slog toward success, though. They started way back in the 80s …. I don’t know that Idol fans would consider an Idol a success if it took him or her that long to go multi-platinum and hit the top of the airplay charts!

  135. Then again, didn’t NKOTB play a Super Bowl halftime show once? And Justin Timberlake?

    MTV productions put on the halftime show one year with britney, aerosmith (justin, i can’t recall–he did the janet superbowl show tho) and a bunch of others….and there were complaints that it was too sexual and out of control and mtv was not allowed to produce the superbowl again — lol, some things never change

  136. On the station I listen to in Boston ‘” Mix 104.1, which is, I guess, an HAC station ‘” it’s a very popular station ‘” there’s an openly gay, kind of flamboyant DJ/personality called Fast Freddie. If they have this guy on the air are they really not going to play a song by an artist who’s gay?

    Well, but you’re ignoring the fact that a lot of people, including me, have repeatedly said that we think the issue with FYE has a lot more to do with the stations not being sure that listeners want to hear Britney-style, sexy dance pop being sung by a *man* than with any particular issues that they have with that man being gay.

    edit: don’t question the motives of your fellow posters

  137. Based on how much a friggin super bowl ticket costs I am sure the halftime entertainment needs to be “acceptable” to the wealthier demographic that will spend a fortune to watch a silly game of who can hit who hardest. And since the Who is from my generation it will be nice to watch some over the hill (physically) guys doing their thang (and I really like the Who).

    Besides…most of the halftime show is for the at home audience whose demographic has also gotten a lot older. Man, I can remember the half time shows when it was all about Disney and cartoon characters.

    Just like everything else…after 40 some odd years things get a little bit old…and I don’t think the super bowl is immune from that. Besides, after looking at who has performed there over the years it doesn’t seem to be the best gig in town.

  138. I mentioned yesterday that FYE was #44 on the Sirius Weekend Countdown…it debuted there. The weekend countdown is the top 45 requested songs on that station…so, I know it is on the low end, but someone is requesting it (and I thought I was the only one!!). I hardly think 3 weeks is giving the single enough time (or whatever the time line has been). It hasn’t had time to do really anything. I don’t listen to regular radio (I’m in St. Louis) but was getting my hair done and WYWFM was being played on one of the pop stations. So I think it is just each stations decision to play what they want. IDK…

  139. The week that was
    AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS: Adam Lambert shocked America by simulating oral sex on stage. Madonna sent him a bouquet of roses after the show.

    Madonna approves.

    Oh that makes me feel a whole lot better about it all….only not.

  140. In regards to SuBo… there’s no accounting for bad taste. Seriously her album makes me nauseous with all the warbling. Wild Horses and Daydream Believer were butchered. Covers all of them and the only one I like is I Dreamed a Dream but I still can’t bring myself to buy it. I seriously think this will be her only album because she can’t handle pressure judging from sucking her thumb and crying at publicity appearances. Overhyped beyond belief. If she weren’t homely noone would give her a second thought.

  141. I wonder if people really take celebrities saying they are bisexual seriously. Lot’s of artist have said they are bisexual but we haven’t really seen Gaga, Megan Fox or Mika out dating someone of the same sex have we?

  142. I seriously think this will be her only album because she can’t handle pressure judging from sucking her thumb and crying at publicity appearances. Overhyped beyond belief.

    I thought we’d established they crying was in response to a quilt some fans made for her… and the thumb sucking thing was a joke and taken out of context?

  143. I wonder if people really take celebrities saying they are bisexual seriously. Lot’s of artist have said they are bisexual but we haven’t really seen Gaga, Megan Fox or Mika out dating someone of the same sex have we?

    Good point!

  144. I thought we’d established they crying was in response to a quilt some fans made for her’ ¦ and the thumb sucking thing was a joke and taken out of context?

    Really? ok I totally missed that. I still don’t think she’s mentally stable though.

  145. Adam enunciates too well!

    Nah, who was paying attention to the lyrics at the AMAs??

    From someone who still thinks Puff The Magic Dragon was a nice children’s fable: I don’t think Adam’s performance will ever be forgotten; they still speak today of the Ed Sullivan Show where Elvis Presley was filmed from the waist up. Adam would have been wise to simply be his sexuality, not perform it. Adam’s fans already knew he was gay, but he introduced himself to a lot of potential cd buyers in an OTT flamboyant manner. I suspect a lot of Adam’s female fans also fantasized that maybe he was just the littlest bit bi. He never has come across as effeminate in interviews, but rather as the boy next door with lots of make-up and big hair. When watching him at the AMAs, his most ardent admireres had to realize he is in no way bi. What was he thinking!

  146. I wonder if people really take celebrities saying they are bisexual seriously. Lot’s of artist have said they are bisexual but we haven’t really seen Gaga, Megan Fox or Mika out dating someone of the same sex have we?

    Fergie is bisexual too. She’s married to Josh Duhamel. I don’t think she’s going to make out with a chick while married to prove it. She’s dated women in her past and made out with them.

  147. “I also have to add that different forms of FYE (not just the ama’s) are getting huge hits on utube’ ¦It isn’t those of us who already own the album going there to check it out.”

    I know my daughter (16 yrs old) and her friends were watching the AMA performance of FYE to laugh at it..sorry. Especially the part where Adam fell and rolled. They thought it was hilarious and kept replaying that part over and over. They thought it was awesome how he made it look so effortless. I wonder if kids doing that could be contributing to the huge hits.

  148. The week that was
    AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS: Adam Lambert shocked America by simulating oral sex on stage. Madonna sent him a bouquet of roses after the show.

    Madonna approves.

    OMG. I’m sure that made Adam really happy, he pretty much worships Madonna. And that makes ME very happy. Approved by pop royalty! Or… you know…she could’ve felt sorry for him falling or something, but I prefer to think she approved of his boldness.

  149. “one reason some gay men get caught in such situations is that they follow the lead of the culture and end up hating and fearing their own sexuality. But then of course all we straight people blame them for being dirty boys who’ve harmed their own careers. ‘ ¦ Sickening, to me.”

    That is true, I think, and tragic.

    And too often the first place that message comes from is family.

    One of the gazillion things I think Adam has just instinctually done right was the 20/20 interview with his mom. I’d bet money there were mothers watching that interview thinking (“suspecting,” “fearing”) that their child might be gay – and the simple non-message message Leila and Adam gave them (what should a parent do? just what a parent always does – love the kid) – well, that’s more important than, I think, any “political” statement.

    I think it’s valuable that he shares such a really FULL picture of who he is: a loving son with a loving family AS WELL AS at times a very overtly sexually suggestive person . . . and a goofball and ham . . . and one of two brothers who fight with and support each other . . . etc. etc.

  150. Maybe next year, DLee, who knows. However, since 2005 (with a slight dip in 2008 for Tom Petty) The halftime shows have been Paul McCartney, The Rolling Stones, Prince, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, and now The Who. Adam has some mighty stiff competition!

    Next year it could be QUEEN featuring Adam Lambert

  151. I think Adam’s mistake is that he suffers from a bit of a parochial LA worldview. When he performed at the AMAs, he should have considered every audience he was playing to and adjusted his behavior accordingly. The black audience and its sensitivities and biases, for instance. There were many audiences in the crowd, but Adam mistakenly seemed to think the world just a big Los Angeles and what goes there is okay anywhere. LA is simply not reality. It’s called Lalaland for a reason.

  152. Does anyone know who is singing the anthem at the Super Bowl?

    I believe it is still TBD.

  153. I haven’t gone back to read all the posts but take it we are debating whether or not people are boycotting Adam’s music because he is openly gay. Well I can tell you in my own little corner of the world it is happening. I am pretty close to several of the program directors in my area of town as I have worked for more than a few of the stations over the years. As of now not one of my local stations is playing Adam – not because the PR’s don’t like him personally (most do) but because of the backlash they feel they will get by putting him on the air. Fortunately I live in a small suburb within markets of two major cities so I think some of the larger statons there will get around to adding him. But it hasn’t happened yet to my knowledge. And I scan the dial frequently.

    Michael Sarver and the AI Christmas tour will be playing here at the end of the week. Maybe I should have him have a word with the station that is sponsoring the event here. They play LLWD ALL the time!

    (and in an OTT side note – I need to purchase a video camera to see if I can get any of the tour footage. Any suggestions as to what kind? What kind do you have suebrody? Your videos are great.)

  154. smellycat

    Hasn’t been announced yet. Jennifer Hudson sang the national anthem at last year’s Super Bowl

  155. I know my daughter (16 yrs old) and her friends were watching the AMA performance of FYE to laugh at it..sorry. Especially the part where Adam fell and rolled. They thought it was hilarious and kept replaying that part over and over. They thought it was awesome how he made it look so effortless.

    This same scenario actually happened in my house with my 20-year-old son. He watched the performance we were all talking about but was most amused by the “ninja” roll. He put it on constant replay, at first to laugh, but then began talking about what a great recovery Adam made. Then, later last night, I was playing Adam’s album while whipping up a family snack, and the same son asked why there weren’t any guitar solos in the songs. I quickly responded with the solos from “Music Again” and “Sleepwalker.” He was actually kind of getting into the songs (NOT an Adam fan prior to this). I don’t know that he’ll be a convert, but I’ll bet a lot of people, once they take a closer look, will gradually become fans.

  156. If she weren’t homely noone would give her a second thought.

    Omigod. First time I ever heard that one!!!! Lady Gaga is homely and she is one of the very few female performers who are – but, like Madonna, also not particularly attractive, she created a marketable persona. Highly unusual.

  157. Buderschnookie
    “Hell, for the first few months we couldn’t even decide on a specific gender much less sexual orientation.”

    LOL

  158. ross
    11/29/2009 at 1:47 pm
    Ddi anyone think the Village People singing about hanging out with all the boys at the YMCA was about a nice conversation and a game of chess? That was, what, 35 years ago? I really don’t buy the idea that prejudice against artists’ sexual orientation is going to get him (or her) banned from the radio at this late date. If you want to think that, I respect your opinion. I’m just not of that opinion.

    One of many big differences is that YMCA was not done by a gay artist.

    YMCA was co-written and sung by Victor Willis, who later became the Village People lead singer. His persona was the “Cop” and “Naval Officer”, but Willis is not gay.

    When YMCA was released there was no real group. It was a ficticious group created by French disco producer Jacques Morali who was gay. After an offer from Dick Clark for the group to perform on American Bandstand, Morali and Willis were pressed to develop a “real” group around Willis to perform live. They did so by placing an ad in music trade papers for “macho” singers who “could also dance” and “must have a mustache.” Some of the members of the group were gay other were none of them were not on the YMCA recording.

    Willis left the Village People in 1980 — they never had another hit.
    Morali died in 1991.

  159. Just got back from shopping at Walmart. I live in very conservative south Alabama (Palin country). I went to check out Adam’s sales. He had three bins with his name on it for new releases. There were only two left. I ask the manager if any were left in the back, He said no but looked in the alphebitized section and found four more. He moved them up front to re-stock the new release display. I asked him how many he got in. He checked and told me he had received 30. GAGA had about 11-12 left-he received 33. Kris had tons left. Didn’t see Susan Boyles at all-not even a bin with her name on it. Don’t know if this is significant but I thought it was cool considering where I live.

  160. lucy, I was responding to this:

    I have to say that I do find the radio response to the singles, so far, puzzling.

    When Elton John came out, many US stations wouldn’t play his music either. Does that give you a hint?

    And also to the comments about radio stations being willing to play music by people declaring themselves bi-sexual vs. homosexual.

    Maybe the discussion evolved into talk about the lack of acceptance of a man singing Britney-style lyrics, but that wasn’t what I was addressing.

    Also, I think the mention earlier of George Michael’s I Want Your Sex is just one example of a man singing suggestive lyrics, and there are hundreds. There’s a hip hop song called I Wanna F*ck You, by Akon, featuring Snoop Dogg, that gets played on the radio all the time (but gets bleeped). There may be some reason that Adam singing the lyrics of FYE may be unacceptable to some people or that his being a gay artist might be unacceptable to some people. But it’s just my opinion that nation-wide the idea that this song’s lyrics or his sexuality would be the reason FYE isn’t getting huge air play doesn’t really make sense.

  161. When he performed at the AMAs, he should have considered every audience he was playing to and adjusted his behavior accordingly. The black audience and its sensitivities and biases, for instance.

    Wait, the black audience? What did Adam do that was offensive to the black audience specifically? I’m a bit confused on that one.

    Lady Gaga is homely and she is one of the very few female performers who are ‘“ but, like Madonna, also not particularly attractive, she created a marketable persona. Highly unusual.

    I agree. Lady Gaga isn’t particularly good looking at all. Madonna though– she was really pretty, imo.

  162. I.just.don’t.get.SuBo
    ugh…but whatever congratulations to her.she’s doing amazing.

    yeah the ninja roll was funny,he recovered so well that at first I thought it was part of the choreography
    I agree nina1
    and I’ve been MIA for the last few days because I was in rl but people are boycotting adam’s music? wow,that’s sad.

    what time is he on ellen?

    Is Adam doing any tv promo afte Ellen?

  163. Omigod. First time I ever heard that one!!!! Lady Gaga is homely and she is one of the very few female performers who are ‘“ but, like Madonna, also not particularly attractive, she created a marketable persona. Highly unusual.

    Lady Gaga isn’t homely. Lady Gaga > Subo on the attractive scale. Let me put it this way noone wants to sleep with SuBo and there’s a reason she’s still a virgin.

  164. OMG. I’m sure that made Adam really happy, he pretty much worships Madonna. And that makes ME very happy. Approved by pop royalty! Or’ ¦ you know’ ¦she could’ve felt sorry for him falling or something, but I prefer to think she approved of his boldness.

    Yes to all of the above.
    Another possibility is that she wanted to celebrate Adam’s national telelvision debut performance. She may have even planned the flowers before his actual performance. She recently met him, and we all know how adorable he can be. I’m sure he was all “fan-boyish” around her…… :)

  165. I thought we’d established they crying was in response to a quilt some fans made for her’ ¦ and the thumb sucking thing was a joke and taken out of context?

    Really? ok I totally missed that. I still don’t think she’s mentally stable though.

    Smellycat, I do tend to agree with you though.

  166. pslittlecomment, if what you’re saying is representative of several areas in the US, then I am really saddened. I understand that not everyone likes what Adam does but to not even get the opportunity is really upsetting. However, this explain somehow why FYE is a hard single to ship because it is a bit too much at once.

  167. Willis left the Village People in 1980 ‘” they never had another hit.
    Morali died in 1991

    “In The Navy” wasn’t a hit? I thought it was so I checked it out on Wikipedia.

    In the Navy” is a 1979 hit song (U.S. #3) by Village People. The music video for the song was shot aboard the USS Reasoner (FF-1063), with the help of the United States Navy which actually used the song in promotional advertising until protests erupted over using taxpayer money for a music video of a controversial group. The song, as is the case with many other Village People songs, is often considered a gay anthem.

    Q3, your’e technically correct that the Village People don’t necessarily represent “gay artist” the same as Adam, but they certainly represented gay themed music, and that music was not unpopular on radio to my knowledge. That’s all I meant.

  168. Wait, the black audience? What did Adam do that was offensive to the black audience specifically? I’m a bit confused on that one.

    I could be wrong, but it seems I’ve read black culture is fairly rigid with respect to manhood and homosexuality.

    Madonna has come to be perceived as pretty. And she worked at it. Good on her.

  169. Lady Gaga is homely

    She is not.

    When she’s not wearing makeup she is average looking. And I think it’s a great thing that an average looking female can find such amazing success in the pop world :)

    Madonna has come to be perceived as pretty. And she worked at it. Good on her.

    Well idk. I just thought she was pretty from the first time I saw a video of hers on the internet. There’s not much more to it than that.

  170. according to mj’s idol page after Ellen all the promo Adam has is a fundraiser honoring Stephen Spielberg ( his daughter’s in my cousin’s class) and the new years eve with dick Clark.is that enough promo? won’t there be a REALLY big drop if Adam doesn’t promote fye more?

  171. >If she weren’t homely noone would give her a second thought.

    Omigod. First time I ever heard that one!!!! Lady Gaga is homely and she is one of the very few female performers who are ‘“ but, like Madonna, also not particularly attractive, she created a marketable persona. Highly unusual.

    This is the first you ever heard that Boyle’s looks were an issue????

    In the famous youtube video seen round the world where she first made ’em sneer and snicker and then faint with admiration on Britain’s Got Talent, it was quite clear that looks were supposed to be the *entire* issue — and that they *wanted* this to be the message ….
    OMG! How astonishing that someone who *looks* *like* *that* — read “ugly” — can *sing* so pretty???

    And since that youtube moment is probably the main thing most Americans, at least, know about Susan Boyle, it therefore seems pretty clear to me that her plain looks are a *huge* part of her appeal!

  172. I believe ‘Macho Man’  was also a pretty big hit, wasn’t it?

    Yeah! There’s another one. That was huge.

  173. When he performed at the AMAs, he should have considered every audience he was playing to and adjusted his behavior accordingly. The black audience and its sensitivities and biases, for instance.

    Well, I don’t think Adam is going to be a big hit with the black audience no matter what he does. As a matter of fact, I saw very, very few blacks at last summer’s AI concert, maybe 1%. This was in Ontario, CA so I’m not speaking of every concert, only my first hand observation.

    There are a few artists who appeal to all demographics, but not that many. I have been to 3 Rolling Stones concerts and the same thing, blacks not in the audience except for Chris Rock which was very cool :)

  174. LOL, Ross, you caught my post before I deleted it. I deleted it because I thought Q3 might have meant they never had a hit after 1980 and I didn’t know the year of “Macho Man”. You were too quick!

  175. If she weren’t homely noone would give her a second thought.

    I guess my point was missed: Homely woman are not given a second thought, almost ever.

    Subo was, I think, quite attractive when younger and now she just looks a bit matronly; she has a lovely face.

  176. we are debating whether or not people are boycotting Adam’s music because he is openly gay. Well I can tell you in my own little corner of the world it is happening.

    Of course it’s happening. Of course there are double-standards in this country. People in the hinterland are terrified of overt, in-your-face gayness, and the major networks know it. That’s why ABC had to cancel Adam on GMA after his flamboyant performance on the AMA’s. They didn’t have any choice: they know their demographics, and had to cave in. I’m not applauding them for being spineless, I’m just recognizing the real reason they did what they did. BUT they used Adam to get their best ratings (and probably, highest ad rates) for the AMA’s in 7 years!

    Here’s why there’s a double-standard: Adam put on a televised performance; except the kiss (not illegal), everything was simulated. Nothing actually happened from the standpoint of the criminal law.

    I know several rock bands, we’re talking heterosexuals now, who used to have sex with groupies (including underage girls) after each show. I’m not going to mention names here, but they violated the criminal statutes of each state they appeared in, and they got away with it. Not only that, but they frequently got the girls drunk or high on illegal drugs first — also a criminal violation — and they got away with that too. Why? Because of the “Boys Will be Boys” doctrine.

    Unfortunately for Adam, the “Boys Will be Boys” doctrine does not apply. And then some.

  177. I am sure this has been pointed out upthread but neither Elton nor George Michael was openly out at the start of his career. Both were established stars before they confirmed any rumors that they were bi or even gay. Boy George also never confirmed the rumors until after Culture Club hit it big. People may have suspected, but I am sure there were some who didn’t know or merely thought he was dressing in such a manner for the sake of performance. Freddie Mercury was the most open about his sexuality – he admitted it when kidding around in interviews but never seriously confirmed it to the public until late in his career. (Brian May even said he didn’t know about Freddie for the longest time because he had more women than men around)

    Over the years I have had people who, upon learning I listen to each of the men’s music, point out that they are gay. Same with kd lang. I also have had to tell folks that Annie Lennox – who I am also a huge fan of – is not gay. I don’t know why some folks think it will change the way I hear their singing, but apparently it does.

  178. Originally created to target disco’s primarily gay audience by featuring stereotypical gay fantasy personas, the band’s popularity quickly brought them into mainstream.

    Village People scored a number of disco and dance hits, including their trademark “Macho Man”, “Go West”, the classic club medley of “San Francisco (You’ve Got Me) / In Hollywood (Everybody is a Star)”, “In the Navy”, “Can’t Stop the Music”, and their biggest hit, “Y.M.C.A.”.

    In September, 2008 the group received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame[2]. They have sold upwards of 50 million records world-wide.

  179. Wait, the black audience? What did Adam do that was offensive to the black audience specifically? I’m a bit confused on that one.

    I could be wrong, but it seems I’ve read black culture is fairly rigid with respect to manhood and homosexuality.

    Hence the bitter fight in DC over gay marriage and the like. While DC is liberal and Democratic out the wazoo, including in the black community, many in the black community, and especially churches and church leaders, are vehemently opposed to this.

  180. where she first made ’em sneer and snicker and then faint with admiration on Britain’s Got Talent, it was quite clear that looks were supposed to be the *entire* issue ‘” and that they *wanted* this to be the message ‘ ¦.
    OMG! How astonishing that someone who *looks* *like* *that* ‘” read ‘ugly’  ‘” can *sing* so pretty???

    Yep, incredibly cruel, shallow and in horrific taste. I guess you already made my point. That said, I think an awful lot of people identify with her for a variety of reasons, one being that she was dowdy and made it and another that her dream came true at 48. Everyone dreams.

  181. I challenge anyone to name one gay artist who was not already a star when he announced he was publically gay who has 1. Gotten a major label contract or 2. Received over 1,000 spins a week on US radio.
    There may be someone, I just can’t find one.

    That said, I consider WWFM a test —

    It is a fine, radio-worthy song — a pop/rock standard that could have be done by anyone.

    It is backed by a major label.

    It has promo support from the artist — who is well known and was the American Idol runner up.

    If does not contain any objectionable lyrics or content.

    It gets great ratings from online listeners.

    It is the top pick this week by 4 very influential PD’s and Media consultants.

    So if WWFM is not played by radio, there is only one reason left. My sincere hope is that it gets airplay. But if it doesn’t, I am confident it will be noticed.

  182. Originally created to target disco’s primarily gay audience by featuring stereotypical gay fantasy personas, the band’s popularity quickly brought them into mainstream.

    That still doesn’t make Willis gay. Lots are artist target a primarily gay audience — Cher, Pink, Lady GaGa, Bette Midler all had huge gay followings but that doesn’t make them gay.

  183. So if WWFM is not played by radio, there is only one reason left. My sincere hope is that it gets airplay. But if it doesn’t, I am confident it will be noticed.

    Or Europe can adopt Adam. :grin:

  184. I think an awful lot of people identify with her for a variety of reasons, one being that she was dowdy and made it and another that her dream came true at 48. Everyone dreams.

    ITA- I think this is why she is selling albums. Seriously, is a Lifetime movie far away? Kathy Bates might be too old to play her, (but she would be awesome). Really, SuBo has an inspiring story.

  185. So if WWFM is not played by radio, there is only one reason left.

    Luck. Spin splitting with FYE. Or maybe it’s just not what radio stations are looking for at this time. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that the only reason Adam doesn’t succeed, if he doesn’t, is homophobia.

  186. Village People scored a number of disco and dance hits, including their trademark ‘Macho Man’ , ‘Go West’ , the classic club medley of ‘San Francisco (You’ve Got Me) / In Hollywood (Everybody is a Star)’ , ‘In the Navy’ , ‘Can’t Stop the Music’ , and their biggest hit, ‘Y.M.C.A.’ .

    In September, 2008 the group received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame[2]. They have sold upwards of 50 million records world-wide.

    I agree with you to the extent that I don’t believe that the gay thing is the only, or the main issue with the radio play or the issue everywhere. Since I didn’t see Kris’s LLWD exactly taking off with lightning speed either — and Kris was actually out there promoting it to stations — I think the slowness of both the songs probably had more to do with the radio stations’ “are we gonna make as much money off this new artist as we do off the ones we’re already playing?” attitude as anything else.

    However, I note that most of the songs people are coming up with as “gay themed” are *joke* songs, and I’m not exactly sure what level of acceptance in the culture joke songs betoken.

    To me, the Village People phenomenon suggests a kind of gay version of a blackface minstrel show. Yeah, maybe we’re “accepting” these people as an oddity and kind of funny entertainment. But is that real “acceptance” as homosexuality as equal to and simply, ordinarily comparable to heterosexuality. I don’t really think so. ….

    And we certainly haven’t any songs that just simply, plainly state and celebrate male-on-male (or female-on-female) love and sex. So there’s still *some* big fat barrier there, even if it isn’t the main thing that slowed down radio acceptance of FYE.

  187. I challenge anyone to name one gay artist who was not already a star when he announced he was publically gay who has 1. Gotten a major label contract or 2. Received over 1,000 spins a week on US radio.
    There may be someone, I just can’t find one.

    That said, I consider WWFM a test ‘”

    It is a fine, radio-worthy song ‘” a pop/rock standard that could have be done by anyone.

    It is backed by a major label.

    It has promo support from the artist ‘” who is well known and was the American Idol runner up.

    If does not contain any objectionable lyrics or content.

    It gets great ratings from online listeners.

    It is the top pick this week by 4 very influential PD’s and Media consultants.

    So if WWFM is not played by radio, there is only one reason left. My sincere hope is that it gets airplay. But if it doesn’t, I am confident it will be noticed.

    I completely agree with this assessment.

  188. undercooked
    11/29/2009 at 3:50 pm

    I think an awful lot of people identify with her for a variety of reasons, one being that she was dowdy and made it and another that her dream came true at 48. Everyone dreams.

    ITA- I think this is why she is selling albums. Seriously, is a Lifetime movie far away? Kathy Bates might be too old to play her, but really, it is an inspiring story.

    ITA — Susan Boyle is the Seabiscuit of this global recession. Seabiscuit became a sensation because he was a magnificent misfit horse running his heart out for cheering multitudes and truly inspired people to believe anyone could be successful. Susan has tapped into that same spirit.

  189. My problem is that they act like Adam’s numbers are a done deal. Where did they come up with this figure?

    my problem is why to they have to compare.I mean I know they’re bothAIers.they could still say llwd is way more successful than fye(if that’s true idk I don’t pay attention to numbers)

    I guess I just have a problem with the whole I’m going to insult you to make me look better.

  190. To me, the Village People phenomenon suggests a kind of gay version of a blackface minstrel show. Yeah, maybe we’re ‘accepting’  these people as an oddity and kind of funny entertainment. But is that real ‘acceptance’  as homosexuality as equal to and simply, ordinarily comparable to heterosexuality. I don’t really think so. ‘ ¦.

    Very well stated, and I agree. But acceptance as a novelty is the first step, at least. We still have a long way to go. And we already HAVE come a long way already.

  191. My problem is that they act like Adam’s numbers are a done deal. Where did they come up with this figure?

    Well, the numbers may wind up being lower (or higher) than the estimates, but they are unlikely to be off by a huge amount…billboard, hdd etc. routinely make these types of projections. Even if the estimates wind up overestimating the true sales, its not going to be by 100, 000 units….so i think it is fair for media sources to make claims that Adam has outsold Kris’ first week sale.

  192. To me, the Village People phenomenon suggests a kind of gay version of a blackface minstrel show. Yeah, maybe we’re ‘accepting’  these people as an oddity and kind of funny entertainment. But is that real ‘acceptance’  as homosexuality as equal to and simply, ordinarily comparable to heterosexuality. I don’t really think so. ‘ ¦.

    You’ve cut through all the baloney and really hit the bottom line with your brilliant analysis. Exactly right.

    The Village People were to gays in the 1970s what Amos ‘n’ Andy were to colored people in the 1940s and 1950s.

  193. alaadam
    11/29/2009 at 3:54 pm
    I for one think Kris Allen is relieved the focus is on Adam’s controversy this week. Otherwise, more artlicles like the following would be going across the net.

    http://tvdonewright.com/2009/11/idol-winner-kris-allen-flops-with-debut-album-sales-runner-up-adam-lambert-surpasses-him/

    My problem is that they act like Adam’s numbers are a done deal. Where did they come up with this figure?

    The number is the Billboard Magazine forecast.

    I actually think that Kris should send Susan Boyle some flowers. Because next week’s big sales story will be about Susan sell over 1 million albums in her first week [US + UK alone will do that], not about Adam beating Kris.

    But the #2 story in the music business will be the Kris-Adam story. And that is not a good story for anyone — Adam or Kris or their fans. So, thank you Susan Boyle.

  194. Very well stated, and I agree. But acceptance as a novelty is the first step, at least. We still have a ways to go.

    Yeah, especially since we had the YMCA gayface show in … uh, 1978 or so?!! … So we made that step 30-plus years ago. So we aren’t exactly climbing with speed.

  195. I challenge anyone to name one gay artist who was not already a star when he announced he was publically gay who has 1. Gotten a major label contract or 2. Received over 1,000 spins a week on US radio.
    There may be someone, I just can’t find one.

    Ferras?

  196. But the #2 story in the music business will be the Kris-Adam story. And that is not a good story for anyone ‘” Adam or Kris or their fans. So, thank you Susan Boyle.

    Just curious — I can understand how this could be viewed as a “bad” story for Kris (i personally think his album and his career will do fine in the long run, but is not going to set the world on fire — of course, I don’t have a crystal ball), but why is it a bad story for Adam and/or his fans?

  197. Don’t get me wrong. I am hoping Adam sales reach 225,000 or more. I just don’t want it reported across the wire and then come back later and say sales were lower than expected.

  198. Wikipedia on Ferras’s one (really cool) album:

    Aliens & Rainbows is the debut album by the American pop rock singer Ferras. It was released digitally on iTunes on March 11, 2008, but wasn’t released to stores in CD format until April 1, 2008. The album is preceded by lead single “Hollywood’s Not America”, as featured on reality TV show American Idol.

    The album’s second single was the track “Liberation Day”. Unfortunately, it failed to chart.

    The album’s third and possible final single off the album is the track “Rush”. It has so far gained more radio airplay and more attention than previous single Liberation Day. Ferras has since done a live version of the song with pop singer Katy Perry. Aliens & Rainbows charted at 97 on the billboard 200 selling 5,245 copies. It has since sold over 27,000 copies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_%26_Rainbows

    edit: don’t mock or criticize your fellow posters

    If he were an Idol finalist with these numbers, he’d be lucky people wreen’t recommending that his record company throw him into the wood chipper.

  199. Q3, I love your valid comparison of SuBo to Seabiscuit, because of the economy. We’re really hitting paydirt here on a Sunday afternoon.

    She kind of looks like him too.

  200. So if WWFM is not played by radio, there is only one reason left. My sincere hope is that it gets airplay. But if it doesn’t, I am confident it will be noticed.

    Rihanni’s “Russian Roulette” flopped (for her). I’m sure that it “looked good on paper”. Kelly had a hit with “My Life Would Suck Without You” and “Already Gone”, but the single in between “I Do Not Hook Up” struggled in comparison. Why? It was a song sung by a known hit maker penned by a known hit maker and produced by a known hit maker.

    There are lots of reasons songs flop that have nothing to do with homophobia. It doesn’t mean they are bad songs. It just means that the time wasn’t right for them. Or there was another song too much like it on the radio. Or something else became flavour of the week that week. Or it’s the wrong time of year for that type of song. Or it’s a hookless wonder. Why does “Fireflies” become a hit when there are lots of other quirky songs out there? How does a quiet song like “Hey There Delilah” struggle for years and suddenly become one of the biggest downloads ever? Why do some proven hitmakers have flops? Sometimes, things just happen.

    I honestly don’t think people give a rat’s ass about the sexuality of the singer singing a song. They just have to like the song. Half the time, I don’t even know who is singing.

    Besides, if it is true that an openly gay singer cannot get songs on radio, that proves that Gene Simmons was 100% right about how Adam should not have come out and I really don’t like it when Gene is right. I know he’s got business smarts, but I prefer to think of him as an obnoxious blow-bag. This would turn Gene into a musical sex politics guru and he’ll never shut up. Okay, nothing shuts him up, but this will cause his head to swell even larger and it might blow up and take out innocent people.

  201. So if WWFM is not played by radio, there is only one reason left.

    Maybe we could blame Reagan?

    The other reason left is that, whiie it might get play, audiences might not like it. In which case, it wouldn’t get played a lot.

    However, I note that most of the songs people are coming up with as ‘gay themed’  are *joke* songs, and I’m not exactly sure what level of acceptance in the culture joke songs betoken.

    To me, the Village People phenomenon suggests a kind of gay version of a blackface minstrel show. Yeah, maybe we’re ‘accepting’  these people as an oddity and kind of funny entertainment. But is that real ‘acceptance’  as homosexuality as equal to and simply, ordinarily comparable to heterosexuality. I don’t really think so. ‘ ¦.

    And we certainly haven’t any songs that just simply, plainly state and celebrate male-on-male (or female-on-female) love and sex. So there’s still *some* big fat barrier there, even if it isn’t the main thing that slowed down radio acceptance of FYE.

    These are good points. I don’t think The Village People were necessarily offensive in the same way people might find minstrel shows (white people in blackface). They were fun and I think people took them as such. I actually think they probably had more to do with popular acceptance of gay culture than we think, in spite of being stereotypes.

    I really don’t know enough about radio to know why FYE wouldn’t get played a lot. I just am not willing to jump on the sexuality excuse. It may actually be true, but I have no idea. I just think it’s an easy argument to make, and it also seems like everything that does not go right with Adam is attributed to it.

    I think it’s worth remembering that a lot of what has come to Adam, many people will attribute to his being gay, or out, and therefore getting a lot of attention. A lot of people think that the main reason he got so much attention after AI was finished was because he came out. So, frankly, if he’s going to use being gay to get attention (and if that performance at the AMAs wasn’t all about that, what was it?), then he’s going to have to take the negative repercussions as well. His album sales indicate to me it does him more good than harm.

    You could say as many things have come to Adam for being gay as have been taken away from him for it.

  202. To me, the Village People phenomenon suggests a kind of gay version of a blackface minstrel show. Yeah, maybe we’re ‘accepting’  these people as an oddity and kind of funny entertainment. But is that real ‘acceptance’  as homosexuality as equal to and simply, ordinarily comparable to heterosexuality. I don’t really think so. ‘ ¦.

    Brilliant!

    Minstrel shows lampooned black people in mostly disparaging ways: as ignorant, lazy, buffoonish, superstitious, joyous, and musical.

    The Village People were a parody that persented gays as joyous, musical, completely unthreatening partiers.

    Don’t know any black people who enjoy Minstrel Shows [or Amos n’ Andy] and don’t know any gays who listen to the Village People. And YMCA is now mostly played on cruise ships and at Bar/Bat Mitzvahs — appropriate places for this childish characture of gay Americans.

  203. alaadam
    11/29/2009 at 3:54 pm
    I for one think Kris Allen is relieved the focus is on Adam’s controversy this week. Otherwise, more artlicles like the following would be going across the net.

    http://tvdonewright.com/2009/11/idol-winner-kris-allen-flops-with-debut-album-sales-runner-up-adam-lambert-surpasses-him/

    Are you kidding?! That’s NEXT week’s story. ;) LOL

    It doesn’t matter if Adam hits 225K or not. I think we can surmise that it is over Kris’s numbers. So even if it is by a few thousand CDs, thats what the headline will be.

  204. “Closer to Fine” by the Indigo Girls reached 52 on the Hot 100 in 1989. I don’t know how many spins the translates to, but as far as I’m aware, the Indigo Girls have always been out.

  205. About past idols, when did they announce the tour after their debut? I’m just trying get some idea about when Adam’s gonna tour?

  206. Maybe we could blame Reagan?

    Can I blame Bruce? He’s my go-to guy.

  207. And YMCA is now mostly played on cruise ships and at Bar/Bat Mitzvahs ‘” appropriate places for this childish characture of gay Americans.

    YMCA came out when I was in Jr. High and I had no idea that the song was in reference to gay culture. I just know my friends and I liked making the letters with our arms. I didn’t know there was a gay connection until years later.

    I think if it is being played at bar mitzvahs, it’s because it is a fun song for kids. JMHO.

  208. Don’t get me wrong. I am hoping Adam sales reach 225,000 or more. I just don’t want it reported across the wire and then come back later and say sales were lower than expected.

    Considering that they have overestimated a heck of a lot of Idol sales in recent years, including Kris’s this year, they obviously have *something* a bit wrong with their formula — maybe they underestimate the dropoff in sales there will be by the first weekend or something? …. I’m hoping for 200,000, honestly, based on this history of overestimation. That would be *fine* with me.

  209. ‘Closer to Fine’  by the Indigo Girls reached 52 on the Hot 100 in 1989. I don’t know how many spins the translates to, but as far as I’m aware, the Indigo Girls have always been out.

    One of my all-time favorite songs…I am surprised it was a Hot 100 song…i always thought it was just a college radio/alt radio kinda song

  210. I hate the iTunes reviews.it’s rated worse than SuBo.the negative reviews are posted like 8 times each. almost none of them are because the album is bad every negative review reads like this (with the addition of ewww AMA,fat insecure moron,album cover hate etc) “BSBSBS…AND ITS GAYYYYYY”

    ughhhh

  211. And YMCA is now mostly played on cruise ships and at Bar/Bat Mitzvahs ‘” appropriate places for this childish characture of gay Americans.

    YMCA is also played at various community sporting events. Crowds in the stands having good fun singing along and doing the Y-M-C-A arm gestures above their heads. Not sure about childish caricature and all that, just a fun, happy song at those events.

  212. Maybe we could blame Reagan?

    I’m down with blaming Reagan, ross!

    But Kirsten, you can go ahead and blame Bruce, too, lol.

  213. The Village People were necessarily offensive in the same way people might find minstrel shows (white people in blackface). They were fun and I think people took them as such. I actually think they probably had more to do with popular acceptance of gay culture than we think, in spite of being stereotypes.

    I agree.

  214. I hate the iTunes reviews.it’s rated worse than SuBo.

    Then there is no need to give them more exposure, is it? lol
    Besides, does it matter?

  215. I really feel for Kris Allen – though he himself seems to be pretty laid back about the whole thing.

    I actually think he would have been better off not winning AI. He could have then used the platform to get a good start as an indie singer/songwriter, which is what he is.

    If he’d come second, the album sales would probably have been about the same and wouldn’t really be an issue.

    I know people said the same about Cook when he won, but the difference to me is that, even if Cook’s success tails off and he goes the indie route in the long run (and I hope that this isn’t the case, but just talking the possibilities) then he will do so from the standpoint of having a solid success, which is a strong foundation.

    If Allen’s numbers pick up considerably (and they could) then I’d say the same for him.

    But, if they don’t, he’ll be saddled with the ‘idol winner who failed’ tag, rather than the ‘idol competitor who built’, like Elliot Yamin.

  216. I challenge anyone to name one gay artist who was not already a star when he announced he was publically gay who has 1. Gotten a major label contract or 2. Received over 1,000 spins a week on US radio.
    There may be someone, I just can’t find one.

    It’s already been done before, you can find out their names yourself. You’d need to refine your criteria to
    1) The person must be gay male, lesbians don’t count.
    2) Only full-blooded American counts (like, if the guy has a Canadian mother that won’t count, certainly not those limp-wristed Limeys).
    3) Only success in America counts.
    Edited because i misread part of it.

  217. I think it’s worth remembering that a lot of what has come to Adam, many people will attribute to his being gay, or out, and therefore getting a lot of attention. A lot of people think that the main reason he got so much attention after AI was finished was because he came out. So, frankly, if he’s going to use being gay to get attention (and if that performance at the AMAs wasn’t all about that, what was it?), then he’s going to have to take the negative repercussions as well. His album sales indicate to me it does him more good than harm.

    I think this is true. He has gotten a billion dollars’ worth of free publicity since the AI finale, most related in some way to his being gay.

    However — and maybe I have lousy “gaydar” — but the first time I saw Adam sing on American Idol, my first reaction wasn’t “Whooooa…this kid’s a poof job; is he a top or a bottom?”

    My reaction was, after watching Adam perform “Mad world”, “Wow! Who the hell is this kid? He’s got to win everything, with talent like that…”

  218. edit: don’t mock or criticize your fellow posters

    Sorry, mj, I didn’t realize I had!

  219. I don’t know of any Idol (or entertainer for that matter) that has had to put up with the hate that Adam has. The spamming that luv is talking about is just one example. Lesser men would have folded long ago.

    I doubt that the dj’s in my area will play Adam much. I say this because the so-called music “critic” for the local paper bashes Adam at every opportunity. Hated him on Idol, hated him on the AMA’s (that one is fair enough), hates his album. He “shrieks off key” all the time. This is a conservative area, although in the NE, and people aren’t thrilled with edgy performers. Or gays I think. Lots of country fans. I am not optimistic for success here.

  220. Just got to the thread so I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but there is going to be an Open House Party for Adam tonight on http://www.openhouseparty.com 6:00 pm to 11:00 pm Central time.

    I was at Best Buy today and they had Adam’s album in the Hot New Releases section next to Lady Ga Ga. Just a few albums left. Didn’t see Kris’s album there but he was in the regular record section.

  221. I don’t think Adam’s performance will ever be forgotten; they still speak today of the Ed Sullivan Show where Elvis Presley was filmed from the waist up.

    I think the AMA thing, at least most of it other than the KISS is already fading from public consciousness. People move on. Its pop culture not the war with Iraq. Ultimately what Adam did on stage a week ago doesn’t touch their lives.

    I don’t think his performance is forever stamped on the american psyche. Maybe if he becomes huge it will become part of his history but if he doesn’t, that moment is pretty much mist.

  222. If he were an Idol finalist with these numbers, he’d be lucky people wreen’t recommending that his record company throw him into the wood chipper.

    If he were an Idol finalist, we wouldn’t have to suggest it. They’d have tossed him in all by themselves ;-)

    Comparing Idols to people like that is never going to make sense in my opinion. Some artists record in a home studio, sell their stuff on their own label, and can make a nice $100K a year salary by selling 5,000 or so albums.

    Some artists are signed by record labels because someone at the label really believes in their songwriting talent and has a plan to slowly build up their careers. Those people may – if they’re lucky – get 2 albums to prove themselves before they get the axe.

    But Idols are signed purely because they are already very, very famous and because they have a hardcore fan base that will love anything they do. Huge amounts of money have to be spent on expensive songwriters and producers because they can’t do it for themselves. Radio play has to be paid for, as does a video, because there’s a very short timeframe in which to cash in. All that adds up to a lot of money spent and the need to cash it back in on the first album. (Almost every Idol does much worse on the second album).

    That means that, as a rough estimate, Kris will need to sell 500,000 copies and I’d guess Adam would need to sell 750,000 before their labels see a penny back.

    Occasionally the label strikes gold (Daughtry, Kelly C, Carrie) but more often they do not.

  223. It does not bother me one iota that SuBo’s sales may be triple Adam’s. Good for her. She’s not really my cupa and may not be for others here, but she must be for many. I don’t believe she’s had that good of a life growing up; now she can put some of that behind her and live a little more comfortably. Does she not deserve this any more than some other younger artists who haven’t paid their dues or have less talent?

  224. I honestly don’t think people give a rat’s ass about the sexuality of the singer singing a song. They just have to like the song. Half the time, I don’t even know who is singing.

    Besides, if it is true that an openly gay singer cannot get songs on radio, that proves that Gene Simmons was 100% right about how Adam should not have come out and I really don’t like it when Gene is right. I know he’s got business smarts, but I prefer to think of him as an obnoxious blow-bag. This would turn Gene into a musical sex politics guru and he’ll never shut up. Okay, nothing shuts him up, but this will cause his head to swell even larger and it might blow up and take out innocent people.

    Well, I have to say that I always thought Simmons had a point in what he said to Adam.

    However, it’s only a valid point if you think that the only thing that matters to Adam is selling as many cds as he can, without causing any ruckus or feeling free to express himself fully. It’s not unusual in any area of entertainment for people to — correctly — advise that smoothing out a lot of your wrinkles to appeal to a broad cross-section of people is a good way to get pretty high sales without risk (obviously, you can get high sales, sometimes even higher, but being “out there,” but in that case you can also really bomb.)

    I think the only reason Adam disagreed with him is that he is okay with causing a ruckus and *does* want to express himself more than being in the closet would allow. (plus, of course, he wasn’t *in* the closet, so he couldn’t exactly go back …) Who knows? Adam may come to regret disagreeing with Gene!

    I really don’t know anybody gay in my everyday non-show-businessy life who seriously says that their lives woudln’t be *easier* in some ways if they weren’t gay, and the “easier” is because they always risk running into somebody who doesn’t accept them. And since this is the way the regular world seems to operate still, I thnk it would be very surprising if it were now totally different in show business …. With actors, for instance, we keep mentioning Neil Patrick Harris — but he was sort of accidentally outed; he didn’t really make the choice himself, as I understand it. … And, given the numbers of gay people that there certainly *are* in show business, where *are* all those out gay movie stars who are having great careers? There should at least be about 10 in every 100 top actors, given the apparent demographics, shouldn’t there? I don’t see them…. and while I know that music is different, I don’t see a lot of evidence that it’s *completely* different.

    I would never say that the gay thing is the *only* thing operating here. Far from it, actually. But I also don’t see how anybody can deny that it’s one factor shaping the situation, for at least some people and in at least some places.

  225. I don’t know of any Idol (or entertainer for that matter) that has had to put up with the hate that Adam has. The spamming that luv is talking about is just one example. Lesser men would have folded long ago.

    Carrie Underwood was trashed by many as a dumb hick after her season, and had haters swarm around her online too until she proved them wrong with all her success. Clay had the nastiest things written about him IN THE PRESS, at least the people criticizing Adam are just nobodys online. Fantasia recieved a lot of criticism for being a single mother, how that means she is not an idol, and there were a lot of racist and classist things written about her all over the internet. John Stevens received a bunch of death threats while on the show, and after that season Jasmine Trias had several occurrences of being booed in public. Adam has had some nasty things written about him, but so have others. The martyrdom is getting tiresome.

  226. I don’t know of any Idol (or entertainer for that matter) that has had to put up with the hate that Adam has. The spamming that luv is talking about is just one example. Lesser men would have folded long ago.

    The anti spamming was there against Cook last year, but I think it was different, because it was a (small group, I’ve no doubt) of somewhat OTT Archie fans, following every mention of him all around the net and spewing out poison every time his name was mentioned anywhere at all.

    And I wasn’t following AI on the net before that, but I’m sure it’s common practise.

    All of which is incredibly irritating, especially when you’re hoping to see someone who’s music you admire established and taken seriously as a musician.

    The stuff against Lambert seems more pernicious to me, because, whilst much of it also probably arises from within the Idol bubble, it focuses on a prejudice that exists out there in the real world and feeds into biased views that already hold sway: though how wide spread such feelings are, I wouldn’t know.

    Inter-fan warring can easily be dismissed as nonsense – though I think it does damage the image of the focus of it to some extent, if only by association.

    Bias based on real life hatreds has more serious implications.

  227. I was at Best Buy today and they had Adam’s album in the Hot New Releases section next to Lady Ga Ga. Just a few albums left. Didn’t see Kris’s album there but he was in the regular record section.

    That was true at my Best Buy, too. … But let’s just say that, when I left the store, Kris’s album was no longer in the regular section, lol.

    This is what the empty bins in the high-profile sales sections are for.

  228. I believe you can add Taylor Hicks to the list of idols that have had to put up with hate. ALL of the idols have to put up with it. It’s a result of the “competition” between fangroups. It’s an idol phenomenon that I believe they are even counseled on. They are advised not to read the message boards etc. because of all the hate that they will encounter.

  229. If he were an Idol finalist, we wouldn’t have to suggest it. They’d have tossed him in all by themselves

    Comparing Idols to people like that is never going to make sense in my opinion. Some artists record in a home studio, sell their stuff on their own label, and can make a nice $100K a year salary by selling 5,000 or so albums.

    I agree. Actually, I just threw the thing in about the Idol-success comparison as a silly afterthought.

    I was actually responding to Ferras as a potential example of an out gay guy who has had mainstream success in sales and radio play …. I don’t think his numbers are what anybody around here would refer to as mainstream success!

  230. Idols that have had to put up with hate? Um, Kris Allen? Go to any article about him and read the comments. Read the comments under Slezak’s recent article. As a fan I was upset about this stuff for months. I finally learned to ignore it.

    That was true at my Best Buy, too. ‘ ¦ But let’s just say that, when I left the store, Kris’s album was no longer in the regular section, lol.

    lucy, for shame! :)

  231. That was true at my Best Buy, too. ‘ ¦ But let’s just say that, when I left the store, Kris’s album was no longer in the regular section, lol.

    This is what the empty bins in the high-profile sales sections are for.

    You probably didn’t increase sales of Kris at all, and all you managed to do was give more work to some employee who will have to restock the cds.

    edit

  232. Luck. Spin splitting with FYE. Or maybe it’s just not what radio stations are looking for at this time. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that the only reason Adam doesn’t succeed, if he doesn’t, is homophobia.

    Exactly. I don’t think one must necessarily ascribe the lack of spins strictly on homophobia. Though I don’t think we should deny that homophobia, unfortunately, alive and well in this country. There has been some progress made, but a LOT of work to be made. But I don’t think that will be the sole factor if WWFM doesn’t get spins. Regardless of all of that I want WWFM to get spins and be a big hit. Oh and I’d also like a lot more progress made with homophobia, but that’s a separate subject. Oh and I’d like a unicorn while I’m at it.

    Considering that they have overestimated a heck of a lot of Idol sales in recent years, including Kris’s this year, they obviously have *something* a bit wrong with their formula ‘” maybe they underestimate the dropoff in sales there will be by the first weekend or something? ‘ ¦. I’m hoping for 200,000, honestly, based on this history of overestimation. That would be *fine* with me.

    I agree, there is such an history of overestimation with Idol sales that I get out a very big saltlick for them. And yeah, I get the person’s point that if it does get “reported,” or taken for granted that Adam was supposed to get 210-230 and then gets the ‘underperforming’ 190-200, I’ll be cranky, yes, probably to the point of stabiness. So fair warning.

    If Allen’s numbers pick up considerably (and they could) then I’d say the same for him.

    But, if they don’t, he’ll be saddled with the ‘idol winner who failed’ tag, rather than the ‘idol competitor who built’, like Elliot Yamin.

    While I want the higher/too optimistic ends of the Adam sales spread to be true, (and hope to see some continued sales and not a HOOGE drop-off the next week) one of the things I am most not looking forward to are going to be in inevitable ‘Kris flopped,’ articles and comparision. Feh. But your point about Kris being better off as the second place and so not having that mantle of AI winner, and so being given the chance to be a grower without as much pressure, is a good one. Still, as you do, I hope to see some sustained growth over the long term. LLWD has had some growth in a slow and steady manner. Though I get it isn’t selling gangbusters either. But then neither did FYE and now WWFM is in the 150s, so as that is the new single, that will definitely need some growth.

    Oh and regardless of Adam, reviling ClearChannel is always the right thing to do. Their effect on music, Adam totally aside, is not of goodness.

    Sorry for being extra rambly today, I blame Bruce, Reagan and my lack of unicorn.

  233. Thanks for your link to Planet Fierce. Never been there before. I must be a really lousy Adam fan.

    I wasn’t expecting a fan site for intellectuals, though. I mean, the talk about Manet’s painting, and Stravinsky’s score for Les Ballet Russes….

  234. Inter-fan warring can easily be dismissed as nonsense ‘“ though I think it does damage the image of the focus of it to some extent, if only by association.

    Bias based on real life hatreds has more serious implications.

    ITA- Some Bo fans hating on Carrie or some Archie fans hating on Cook is not the same thing as homophobes hating on Adam and Clay or racists hating on Fantasia and Rueben.

  235. Don’t do crap like that, you probably didn’t increase sales of Kris at all, and all you managed to do was give more work to some employee who will have to restock the cds. I hated Idol freaks when I worked at Borders.

    You’re exactly right! Apologies to all beleaguered store employees!

    I generally don’t do it, but I felt sorry for Kris when I saw everybody else that I know to be a “new release” in an endcap or something, and he was buried back in an alphabetical section with no name card so that I had to dig for it and thought at first that it must not be there, because the stuff in the A section was already kind of out of order! ….

    I don’t get this, by the way. As a former employee in one of these places, do you know? Is he back there because his label didn’t pay for the same kind of placement that everybody else’s did? Or is the placement of albums more in the store’s hands? I’m really curious about this.

  236. I’m still sticking with my Indigo Girls “guess” as I just checked and the cd that “Closer to Fine” was on sold platinum. Do we have a winner?

  237. I’m a very, very sexual liberated individual and would never think to respond to people any differently because of their sexual orientation. And I know for a fact that there is still a HUGE portion of the populace of the United States that think “Gay or lesbian” is purely a “CHOICE”. And that, consequently, leaves them to believe that people who choose to be Gay or Lesbian are giving the finger to God, their nation, their community, and their families and therefore should be treated as “second class citizens” in everything. And I have a Step-child that repeats this voodooism at me everytime I bring up the fact that I like Adam because that is what her religion and her natural mother tell her. (And the sad thing is that she has Uncles and cousins who are gay).

    So I firmly believe that someone, like Adam, that is trying to carve a career in a country that not only doesn’t accept gays but that think that gays are the devils children, are being exceptionally “brave”. And if someone doesn’t think so they should ask some jewish people who braved the holocaust, or Japanese Americans that were interned, or Black students who were the first to integrate their college or high school in the Klu Klux Klan South of the 60s. It isn’t easy being hated and despised for something you don’t have control over like you ethnicity, your race, or your sexual make-up.

  238. I’m still sticking with my Indigo Girls ‘guess’  as I just checked and the cd that ‘Closer to Fine’  was on sold platinum. Do we have a winner?

    Well, with their indieness, I expect that they could easily have made the Hot 100 based on sales alone, without a lot of radio play. And they certainly haven’t got much radio play at pop that I know of …. I used to hear them a lot on the more alt stations, back when we had alt stations …

    So I’d give them half — They definitely have sold well. But whether they got acceptance from any of the bigger radio formats, I don’t know.

    Anybody remember hearing Indigo Girls playing on pop or ac or rock radio much?

  239. I think if it is being played at bar mitzvahs, it’s because it is a fun song for kids. JMHO.

    For sure!

  240. I don’t get this, by the way. As a former employee in one of these places, do you know? Is he back there because his label didn’t pay for the same kind of placement that everybody else’s did? Or is the placement of albums more in the store’s hands? I’m really curious about this.

    I just worked there part time in college, so I don’t know who payed what to be where, but I know that it was important that only CDs that were supposed to be in the prime placements were there, so I imagine there was some kind of payment to be placed in a prime position.

  241. Rihanni’s ‘Russian Roulette’  flopped (for her). I’m sure that it ‘looked good on paper’ . Kelly had a hit with ‘My Life Would Suck Without You’  and ‘Already Gone’ , but the single in between ‘I Do Not Hook Up’  struggled in comparison. Why? It was a song sung by a known hit maker penned by a known hit maker and produced by a known hit maker.

    Of course, every song doesn’t get radio airplay. But last time I checked both Rihanna and Kelly get a lot of airplay, are established artists and are not gay men.

    Why has there never been 1 — not 1 — song by a new artist who was a gay American that has gotting significant radio airplay on US radio?
    (And regarding YMCA — it was gay-themed [lightly to say the least!] but performed by a straight artist.)

    Adam was #2 on Idol, WWFM is good, his album is a hit, and the label is behind it. I gave US radio the benefit of the doubt on FYE — but if they do not play WWFM, I will start to believe there really is bias involved.

    It is a great sign that some major Clear Channel stations in the KISS network are playing WWFM. Clear Channel has over 900 stations, the largest radio station group owner in the United States, both by number of stations and by revenue — and is the real game. In the past Clear Channel has been criticized for banning artist from its stations that supported liberal causes, were critical of the Bush administration and the war in Iraq/Afganistan, or supported a long list of social justice initiatives. However in the past couple of years, Clear Channel has changed and began flipping some of their news talk stations to progressive talk. They are now a media sponsor of Frameline, the San Francisco International LGBT Film Festival.

    I really believe that Adam will break through this radio barrier — now or in the future. It just seems like things are set in motion to fianlly make it happen.

  242. I could be wrong, but it seems I’ve read black culture is fairly rigid with respect to manhood and homosexuality.

    Just lurking around, but had to respond to this. It is always dangerous to generalize about any one culture. Homosexuality in the black culture is failry well tolerated. At least among the people that I know. You need only take a visit to the local beauty salon or see many of the song leader at the Sunday choir and you will see accepted gay people everywhere. These two examples are stereotypes, but never the less they are accepted stereotypes.

    What many females in the black community find particularly distubing is the “down-low” phenomenom. These are black men that masquerade as hetero, but are secretly gay. Even then, it is not being gay that riles, but the fact that they are hiding it.

  243. So I firmly believe that someone, like Adam, that is trying to carve a career in a country that not only doesn’t accept gays but that think that gays are the devils children, are being exceptionally ‘brave’ . And if someone doesn’t think so they should ask some jewish people who braved the holocaust, or Japanese Americans that were interned, or Black students who were the first to integrate their college or high school in the Klu Klux Klan South of the 60s. It isn’t easy being hated and despised for something you don’t have control over like you ethnicity, your race, or your sexual make-up.

    Tess, ITA. Adam is brave for doing what he’s doing. He is going against the tide by coming out just a couple of weeks after the American Idol finale, of all things.

    Here’s another reason Adam is such a big deal. He’s doing something NO MALE VOCALIST HAS EVER DONE BEFORE: launched his career on the basis of his being gay, with a cover story on Rolling Stone magazine at that.

  244. Why has there never been 1 ‘” not 1 ‘” song by a new artist who was a gay American that has gotting significant radio airplay on US radio?

    Q3, I answered Ferras earlier and you never responded. “Hollywoods Not America reached 32 on the Top 40 Mainstream chart, if people consider LLWD a hit, that counts as a hit too, right?

  245. What I really wonder is how it feels to have your friggin’ hands waxed….Youch! What some men will do for vanity….

    and you think we got ferocious tabloids in the US? The Brits have outdone us for a long time (and it ain’t just the nude pics they contain)….

  246. So I firmly believe that someone, like Adam, that is trying to carve a career in a country that not only doesn’t accept gays but that think that gays are the devils children, are being exceptionally ‘brave’ . And if someone doesn’t think so they should ask some jewish people who braved the holocaust, or Japanese Americans that were interned, or Black students who were the first to integrate their college or high school in the Klu Klux Klan South of the 60s. It isn’t easy being hated and despised for something you don’t have control over like you ethnicity, your race, or your sexual make-up.

    This country believes gays are the devil’s children? Do you live in this country?

    I have no doubt Adam encounters prejudice, like from that church group during the tour. There is anti-gay prejudice, and I don’t minimize Adam’s balls in being so open. But this is 2009. He isn’t like the little girl being marched to her classroom in Little Rock in the 1950’s. I assume he can go down the street without rocks being thrown at him, he can rent an apartment, he can eat in a restaurant, he isn’t being sent to an internment camp. I have a lot of friends of various sexual orientations. The prejudice encountered is not really all that severe. Most of them lead normal lives.

    I did go to a concert where the audience roared its approval of him like I’ve never heard in my life, and his presales seem to be through the roof. I have a hard time seeing him as a victim.

  247. Yess, Tess.

    There’s no evidence of LITERAL AI bashing. There is of gay bashing, so the hate coming at Adam isn’t the same as prior fan wars.

  248. All big stars have to be ready for the “hate”. You can still sell TONS of records, tour, have people adore you….but there will always be plenty of hate to go around for many different reasons.

  249. Kris’ friend Charles tweeted a photo of a scruffy looking Idol from last night.

    # Oh Mr. @KrisAllen, give it up for No-Shave November! Hahaha! http://twitpic.com/rhxoh about 1 hour ago from Echofon

  250. I don’t get this, by the way. As a former employee in one of these places, do you know? Is he back there because his label didn’t pay for the same kind of placement that everybody else’s did? Or is the placement of albums more in the store’s hands? I’m really curious about this.

    I just worked there part time in college, so I don’t know who payed what to be where, but I know that it was important that only CDs that were supposed to be in the prime placements were there, so I imagine there was some kind of payment to be placed in a prime position.

    Thanks.

    Sorry to hear that, though. I hate to think that this means Jive actually didn’t pay for primo placement for him. I’d rather think it’s just a store-by-store glitch!

  251. Q3, I answered Ferras earlier and you never responded. ‘Hollywoods Not America reached 32 on the Top 40 Mainstream chart, if people consider LLWD a hit, that counts as a hit too, right?

    Sorry I missed your comment. Good one. Gives me hope.

    Odd coincidence that Ferras is Adam’s friend and ‘Hollywoods Not America” got airplay because of being used on American Idol in 2008.

  252. @Readon, I totally concur….I’ve been trying to respond to this for the last hour or so, but I can seem to copy and past……

    I think these broad stereotypes and generalizations are harmful. Adam has black fans, maybe they don’t go to idol concerts but they definitely have supported him, purchased his cd, and voted their little fingers off. As for black folk being any more unaccepting of gays is just another one of those myths. I remember on openly gay performer, that had widespread acceptance in the black community, and he got radio play on urban stations. Anyone remember Sylvester? He sang with Two Tons of Fun, who later became The Weather Girls of It’s Raining Men fame.

    ETA: I know that his ‘fame’ was almost 30 years ago, but does that mean that black radio and the community was ahead of it’s time? Or maybe they opened the door a crack and then slammed it closed again?

  253. Of course, every song doesn’t get radio airplay. But last time I checked both Rihanna and Kelly get a lot of airplay, are established artists and are not gay men.

    But that was the point. Some songs flop and it has nothing to do with the artist being gay. If there was an exact formula for hits, all songs released would be hits. So even if somebody thinks that WWFM should be a hit, doesn’t mean it will be and it doesn’t necessarily prove that openly gay man can not have a hit.

    Why has there never been 1 ‘” not 1 ‘” song by a new artist who was a gay American that has gotting significant radio airplay on US radio?

    But that’s such a small number, I don’t know if it’s statistically significant. How many straight new American male artists get significant airplay on US radio? Compared to then number of artists in general, very few. Just look at the Pop chart today. Jay Sean is British. Justin Beirber is Canadian. Owl City is working on it’s third album (and is a band). Jesse’s been around for years. That pretty much leaves Jason and Kris as new male American straight artists. Compared to how many new male American straight artists that have released albums in the past year?

    Most people seem to heed Gene’s advice and don’t state their sexuality which results in an even smaller number of new male openly gay American artists trying to get on the charts.

    I’m not saying there is homophobia in the states and elsewhere, because there is. I’m just not willing to pin the entire flopping of FYE on homophobia when there are a lots of other reasons that could have contributed to that as well (e.g. Adam not doing interviews with the stations). Him being gay might not have helped, but there were several other things wrong with that roll-out.

    And, if you believe in the “Master Plan” RCA never intended it to get much airplay, so it’s unfair to call radio homophobic (I don’t think it was their plan, but I do think their plan was a little flawed).

  254. I also answered Indigo Girls with no response

    They are gay. They are women. They are hot women. Men love fantasizing about lesbians. I thinks we have had several days of posting about the difference allowed in the expressions of women and their sexuality.

  255. I thought the primo placement had to do with “new releases”. The individual cardboard displays…like Michael Jackson has…that must cost extra.

  256. Just got back from Target, and there’s no slots with Adam’s name, so I assume they didn’t stock his CD. Also, Susan Boyle’s are sold out, and her name is still there. One left of John Mayer and lots of Lady Gaga’s. Actually there was something in every slot except Susan’s, which reconfirms they didn’t stock Adam’s. Kris’ was in the Pop Section with a card for his name along with 5 CD’s.

  257. The prejudice encountered is not really all that severe.

    Well, I’m very happy for you that you don’t see it…that you don’t hear the macho straight guys in the lunchroom denying their gay colleague an entry into their football pool, you don’t hear kids in high school calling their gay schoolmates horrendous names to their faces, you don’t hear the testosterone driven weight lifters at the gym complaining to the management that “gay” guys are able to share their showers. It may not always be as bad as the days in Laramie Wyoming…but it is insideous none the less. And I won’t even go into all of the social stuff like insurance, and medical rights, and marriage, and child custody issues. ’nuff said for now.

  258. It isn’t easy being hated and despised for something you don’t have control over like you ethnicity, your race, or your sexual make-up.

    Yes!
    I also love your comment about the many ignorant (yes, my word) people out there who believe that being gay is a choice. I feel that it is every bit as uncontrollable as ethnicity and race. Great post, Tess!

  259. Oh my, that is NOT a good picture of Kris…..and I didn’t think Kris could take a bad picture….I was wrong:( Now off to look at some GOOD Kris pictures. :)

  260. There is of gay bashing, so the hate coming at Adam isn’t the same as prior fan wars.

    Sorry but this just isn’t true. I remember the vitriol spewed at Fantasia, calling her things like ghetto trash or a crackwhore certainly were not just fanwarring behavior. Katherine McPhee was called a slut and many other misogynistic things. Just this past season people had misogynistic things to say about Alexis and Meghan, nasty things were written about Lil and affirmative action, or that she is just the typical diva (i.e black singer) that idol has moved beyond, and people all over the internet bashed Danny for his Christianity. This doesn’t take away from what Adam is dealing with, but it is not exclusive to Adam.

  261. I obviously missed the conversation about women’s sexuality. That said, I would be surprised if people heard “Closer to Fine” and began to fantasize about the women singing the song and bought the record. I’m with Kirsten and Ross, I do believe that homophobia exists, I’m just not ready to blame it for the “failure” of FYE.

  262. I just worked there part time in college, so I don’t know who payed what to be where, but I know that it was important that only CDs that were supposed to be in the prime placements were there, so I imagine there was some kind of payment to be placed in a prime position.

    I went to my local Walmart this morning and both Kris and Adam (along with SuBo) were place prominently on the end of the aisle. Kris and Adam had CDs left, SuBo was wiped out.

    I really do believe it is up to the store manager, or better yet, the area manager to decide what is displayed where. Stores want to move product so they will display what they preceive as popular.

    I hope we don’t go down the “19 hates Kris and they aren’t paying to have Kris’s CD displayed upfront!” path. I just don’t think it is the case.

  263. Just got back from Target, and there’s no slots with Adam’s name, so I assume they didn’t stock his

    I was at a Target yesterday in CT and Adam was prominently displayed under New Releases. There were three slots with his name, and two were completely empty. I did my share to empty out the third. I saw SuBo, Shakira and Rhianna under New Releases also, but no Kris Allen. There wasn’t even a slot with his name.

  264. I also love your comment about the many ignorant (yes, my word) people out there who believe that being gay is a choice.

    This comes up with a lot of my high school students who I am sure learned it from their parents. My response is always -“when did you CHOOSE your sexuality.”

  265. Stores want to move product so they will display what they preceive as popular.

    I hope we don’t go down the ’19 hates Kris and they aren’t paying to have Kris’s CD displayed upfront!’  path. I just don’t think it is the case

    I agree. If Kris’ CD had sold better in his first week, I’m sure they would’ve kept it in the front in more stores for this week.

  266. Just got back from Target, and there’s no slots with Adam’s name, so I assume they didn’t stock his

    Target’s website says Adam’s FYE is in all stores.

  267. Just got back from Target, and there’s no slots with Adam’s name, so I assume they didn’t stock his CD.

    I would have asked them about this. Just saying…….

  268. YMCA is still standard fare at high school dances, the kids love to do the letters with their arms. Another favorite is Girls Just Want to Have Fun which sounds like a lesbian anthem, ha ha.

    Regarding Adam, nobody yet knows exactly what twists and turns his career will take, but I think he is going to be successful beyond his dreams. Look where he was a year ago!

  269. Idols that have had to put up with hate? Um, Kris Allen? Go to any article about him and read the comments. Read the comments under Slezak’s recent article. As a fan I was upset about this stuff for months. I finally learned to ignore it.

    The worst comments I’ve read about Kris was he didn’t deserve win, and his singing is mediocre. Apparently you haven’t read Adam comments. Some think he is a vile, corrupt, sick person because of how and who he has sex with. They say they can’t stand the sight of him because of his sexuality. They even go into graphic details of how he has sex. They say he is a terrible role model as if he can convert a straight child into a gay one.

    Apples and oranges about how the idols have been trashed every year compared to Adam.

  270. So does anyone here know anyone going to the Ellen taping? Are they taping tomorrow?

  271. Crap, this not being able to copy and paste is annoying….anyway, yes in this country some people do believe that gays are the devils children, or at least his followers. I live in a liberal bastion, NY, but even here there are many people who believe

    1. That it’s a choice
    2. That it’s perverse
    3. That it’s a bad example for children
    4. That it’s akin to beastiality (on this very board)
    5. That it’s not something that should be shoved in people’s face (yep, I am talking to you Clay Aiken)
    6. That you should tone it down if you want to be successful
    7. Nobody wants to see men kissing
    8. That he won’t be a success because he’s out of the closet
    9. That men won’t buy his cd because he’s gay

    Hell, I could go on and on for another ten minutes at least. Since it’s 2009 and it hasn’t happened yet speaks volumes. And if anyone thinks that Lesbians don’t have it easier….come on. Girl on girl action is cute, adorable, and a huge turn on for guys, and some girls too, guy on guy, not so much.

  272. Thanks to the person who posted the pic of David Cook with Lindsey Rose & her parents. Real Life has intruded lately and I had not seen that sweet photo.

    Here’s a really good vid from Cook’s concert last night in Orlando
    song is “Straight Ahead”.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icXT_HWV8Ww&feature=subtivity
    and for Cook fans, the theatre he played in Milwaukee just put up a great slideshow of photos from his show on their site
    http://www.pabsttheater.org/_galleries/cook_riverside_111109/cook.html

    Only 2 more concerts to go in Cookie’s fantastic Declaration tour. I’m happy for his success but sad this tour’s ending. His last twitter –
    “Thx Orlando. Amazing crowd. One step closer to seeing my dog, and watching @ACookOfficial receive a degree. scary thought, I know…”

    Oh those lucky lucky people seeing his last shows (of this tour) or his New Year’s eve shows.

  273. This country believes gays are the devil’s children? Do you live in this country?

    I do. I live in the south, in the Bible belt. Sadly, the statement above holds true for a fairly large percentage of people. My daughter went to a private school (they are big around here) that had several homophobic policies. If a student was found to be gay, they were expelled. In fact, if a student’s parents were gay-the student either wasn’t admitted or was expelled.

    If gay people truly had equal rights, they could legally marry. This is the policy in “the country we live in”.

  274. I’m not saying there is homophobia in the states and elsewhere, because there is. I’m just not willing to pin the entire flopping of FYE on homophobia when there are a lots of other reasons that could have contributed to that as well (e.g. Adam not doing interviews with the stations). Him being gay might not have helped, but there were several other things wrong with that roll-out.

    And, if you believe in the ‘Master Plan’  RCA never intended it to get much airplay, so it’s unfair to call radio homophobic (I don’t think it was their plan, but I do think their plan was a little flawed).

    I don’t think this discussion is just specific to FYE, the single. It’s much broader than that. I don’t know if FYE would or will be sucessful in the Houston metropolitan area. The point is, it was never played. That is over 4 million residents that never got the chance to say, “I love” or “I hate that crap”.

    Look at the adds chart for FYEand do a geographcial comparison. It may be true that all the program directors automatically hated it and most of those just happen to Clear Channel, but that just doesn’t pass my smell test. Hey, I know that a lot of people love LLWD, but it ain’t exactly a barn burner, however look at the number of PDs that decided to give it a least a spin and test the public’s preference. Didn’t Adam rate at least a spin?

  275. gangreen29
    11/29/2009 at 5:20 pm

    I agree…many Idols have had to overcome “idol fan generated hatred” but this hatred, however disturbing, was addressed to the person and not because of their inherant being (and I’m sorry, I can’t think of a more distinct way to say that). I am sure Lil and Fantasia are still fighting racial motivated hatred…but the others are being hated because of intangible things…not tangible ones.

  276. There is of gay bashing, so the hate coming at Adam isn’t the same as prior fan wars.

    Sorry but this just isn’t true. I remember the vitriol spewed at Fantasia, calling her things like ghetto trash or a crackwhore certainly were not just fanwarring behavior.

    The Fantasia stuff largely *was* the same, in my opinion.

    Have we got a *lot* of both homophobia and racism around? In my opinion, heck yeah.

    The rest — I don’t think it’s particularly comparable. It was fans of other idols who called Kat a slut because they didn’t like the attention she was getting; if she’d been a guy they would have called her something else but they still would have spewed loathing in her direction.

  277. Apparently you haven’t read Adam comments. Some think he is a vile, corrupt, sick person because of how and who he has sex with. They say they can’t stand the sight of him because of his sexuality. They even go into graphic details of how he has sex. They say he is a terrible role model as if he can convert a straight child into a gay one.

    I have not read those, but I believe you. How sad.

  278. This comes up with a lot of my high school students who I am sure learned it from their parents. My response is always -‘ when did you CHOOSE your sexuality.’ 

    Love this response!
    I am a middle school teacher, so I can see we are on the same wave length. ;)

  279. Just got back from Target, and there’s no slots with Adam’s name, so I assume they didn’t stock his CD.

    When I went to Walmart, there were NO slots for SuBo and I did not see her CD anywhere. I put a post earlier about it. Does that mean that a bible belt southern state like Alabama did not stock SuBO? Yet, they stocked Adam=whom was selling very well. Doesnt make sense. Of course, I didn’t ask about SuBo. Didn’t care that much. I was looking at GAGA and Rhianna. I also looked At Kris for curiosity sake.

  280. The rest ‘” I don’t think it’s particularly comparable. It was fans of other idols who called Kat a slut because they didn’t like the attention she was getting; if she’d been a guy they would have called her something else but they still would have spewed loathing in her direction.

    I think women are very, very disproportionally hated on in all fandom, which is ironic because fandom is comprised of women. Or maybe not ironic, but reflective of society as a whole. And it’s an insidious kind of discrimination because it’s so easy to brush off and minimize the effect of. Slut, whore, and ho are really red flag words for me–they’re the same words used by other women to describe Hillary Clinton, for example, and that definitely hurt her. And sexism is harder to combat b/c it’s often women discriminating against other women, so people don’t even recognize that there’s a problem; and even when it is recognized the subtleties of the stereotypes make them harder to define and pinpoint. So I wouldn’t downplay the way Kat was talked about. I think it is comparable.

  281. I went to my local Walmart this monring and both Kris and Adam (along with SuBo) were place prominently on the end of the aisle. Kris and Adam had CDs left, SuBo was wiped out.

    I really do believe it is up to the store manager, or better yet, the area manager to decide what is displayed where. Stores want to move product so they will display what they preceive as popular.

    I hope we don’t go down the ’19 hates Kris and they aren’t paying to have Kris’s CD displayed upfront!’  path. I just don’t think it is the

    Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Target are stocked based upon a centrally developed planogram [a map that says were almost every item goes]. Managers have little or no ability to change this. Wal-Mart has a unique assortments and plan for every store. Best Buy has many stores with the same planogram.

    Promotional dollars for prime store placement, if given to retailers, is usually dedicated to an album’s release week. But the promo $ alone are not enough to overcome weak sales — and merchants/buyers, planners and stores are judged on sales revenue, GMRIO [Gross Margin Return on Investment] and square footage productivity. On the biggest shopping days of the year, no merchant or planner is going to place a known/probable slow seller in the prime location.

  282. Oh this is always fun, roll call of who stocked the cd and who didn’t.

    Target @ Atlantic Center Mall in Brooklyn, NY, they sell a crap load of cds are it’s probably the only big box store that sells cds in downtown Brooklyn since Circuit City bit the dust earlier this year, purchased Adam’s cd on Wednesday. He had his name on his slot, in New Releases, and it was sale priced at $9.99. I didn’t see Kris, but truthfully wasn’t looking for him either. I did see SuBo, Rihanna, and 50. This particular store sells lots of Rap and R&B, but they carry everything. No boycott of Adam in Brooklyn.

  283. Why has there never been 1 ‘” not 1 ‘” song by a new artist who was a gay American that has gotting significant radio airplay on US radio?

    Isn’t LadyGaga bi-sexual? Poker Face is about her bi-sexuality, right? I don’t think Lady Gaga got spins based on her sexual orientation. Just Dance was a monster.

    Adam is a new artist. Program Directors don’t know him. There are a ton of songs that are up for play and it’s competitive. FYE was not a good song — hence why it didn’t get many spins and why RCA quickly swapped it out with another single. And lo!WWFM is getting more spins – and spins from KIIS and Z100.

  284. Abby, I have to disagree with the Lesbianism being less of a cross to bear, so to speak. I’m sure that it is just from my personal experience but two of the women I know who are lesbians are in the closet. One has even lived with the same woman for years. They moved across country together. Yet they will never tell their families because they know the uproar it would cause. They love their families but they would never be accepted and probably would be turned away. Their parents are very religious and it just isn’t in them. So, my personal experience just doesn’t allow me to believe that the music industry is more accepting of gay women than gay men. Certainly, this is all just my experience and opinion.

  285. I am not sure how it really works in the US but reading the comments here I wonder whether the reason Kris is getting more radio adds & spins might be because this is where the label puts the money – rather than to have his CD up front in the stores, which costs money as well!!
    So maybe RCA concentrates its push on CD placement in stores & Jive on Radio adds!! This makes more sense to me than all the conspiracy theories that have been constructed!!
    Is there anyone who has more knowledge about this??

  286. Crap, this not being able to copy and paste is annoying’ ¦.anyway, yes in this country some people do believe that gays are the devils children, or at least his followers. I live in a liberal bastion, NY, but even here there are many people who believe

    1. That it’s a choice
    2. That it’s perverse
    3. That it’s a bad example for children
    4. That it’s akin to beastiality (on this very board)
    5. That it’s not something that should be shoved in people’s face (yep, I am talking to you Clay Aiken)
    6. That you should tone it down if you want to be successful
    7. Nobody wants to see men kissing
    8. That he won’t be a success because he’s out of the closet
    9. That men won’t buy his cd because he’s gay

    #10 – gays are pedophiles

  287. Just got back from Target, and there’s no slots with Adam’s name, so I assume they didn’t stock his CD.

    Not necessarily true. Of all the stores that I surveryed, Target has the strangest product placement. The CDs were not where I expected them to be. I saw Kris next to SuBo. Adam was on a completely different aisle. SuBo and Adam appeared to be selling well. Kris and Rihanna, not so much.

    Of course, this is a point in time comparison. I have no way of knowing when they restock the shelves.

  288. Isn’t LadyGaga bi-sexual? Poker Face is about her bi-sexuality, right? I don’t think Lady Gaga got spins based on her sexual orientation. Just Dance was a monster.

    Bisexuality among women is NOT the same thing as homosexuality among men or even homosexuality among women. Bisexuality has become a very “cool, in” thing. See ‘I Kissed a Girl’ being a monster hit and all the ‘edgy’ actresses claiming to be bi, i.e. Megan Fox. Being bi is an advantage for actresses and female singers who want that “edgy” image–to the extent that, imo, more women in entertainment claim being bi than actually are (or else it could just be a concidence that the vast majority of the “bi” women in the industry’s long term relationships are with men, not women).

  289. Hell, I could go on and on for another ten minutes at least. To say that Adam isn’t a tough sell is ludicrous. Since it’s 2009 and it hasn’t happened yet speaks volumes. And if anyone thinks that Lesbians don’t have it easier’ ¦.come on. Girl on girl action is cute, adorable, and a huge turn on for guys, and some girls too, guy on guy, not so much.

    Yes, and I think this whole discussion also closely ties into the misogynistic attitude that says female singers can be sexy in that fun, poppy, dancey and provocative way, but if a male singer does that it’s “weird” and “gross” and “too sexual for the kiddies”. Because we can’t have women (straight ones) enjoying being entertained in the same way as men (straight ones).

    I really wish Adam would mention this, but perhaps as a man it hasn’t occurred to him why the double standard exists in the first place.

  290. (And regarding YMCA ‘” it was gay-themed [lightly to say the least!] but performed by a straight artist.)

    At least one of the guys in Village People is gay.

  291. BestAI

    Although Kris hasn’t faced nearly the level of hate that the homophobes have thrown at Adam, he has been targeted too — he’s been accused of being personally involved in “fixing” the vote, he’s been called a hypocrite who is faking his friendship with Adam so he can ride on his coattails, and he’s even been accused of being a closet homophobe. And of course he’s been attacked by the “Christians” who can’t understand why he would want to have anything to do with Adam.

    Pretty much every Idol winner and runner-up has faced some level of vitriol. Besides Adam, I would guess that Clay, Ruben, Fantasia and Jordin have received the most hateful reactions. But I have read some really nasty remarks about pretty much everyone who has finished 1st or 2nd on the show. It’s really sad to see.

  292. and people all over the internet bashed Danny for his Christianity

    Danny was not bashed for his Christianity. He was bashed because of how people felt he used that Christianity to justify his homophobia. And as that happens in the real world way too much, it’s a valid concern. But no, Danny’s being Christian didn’t open him up to criticism. It’s just the reality of the world we live in that many religions, not just Christianity so let’s be very fair to it here, have parts of them that are openly and actively anti-gay. Kris was given lots of credit for being Christian and being fine with Adam’s gayness. Which always reminds me of Chris Rock’s ‘you want a cookie?’ for something you’re supposed to do. I do enjoy Kris and Adam’s friendship given their differences of personality, but find it sad that Kris was given so much credit for just not being an asshat of a human being.

    Anyhew, and tying to radio play and Adam, I think denying that homophobia is alive and well in this country, is denying reality. But while it is alive and well, it’s not everything that drives everything. There are lot of other factors involved that have nothing to do with whether WWFM will be played, timing of adding new songs for example. I learned from there that there is evidently some weird holiday freeze thing that takes place in even November. And I have long thought the roll-out for FYE was flawed. I know dead horse, but it could very well have been much more a contributing factor than Adam’s being gay. I believe it did. And it could be FYE just as a song didn’t have a strong enough hook, or there were other stronger electro/pop songs out there, or it just didn’t test well/people didn’t like it. There are tons of factors that go into whether a song gets radio play and becomes successful. If it was a set formula than record companies would do just that and be successful all the time.

    Hey, while it’s being (peripherally) talked about, what are the spins for WWFM like these days? Oh and if Adam is doing that OHP tonight and plays it, how does that work with it? And will Adam play LLWD? it’s not really OHP music, but IIRC, he’s played LLWD as part of these types of gigs before.

  293. So I wouldn’t downplay the way Kat was talked about. I think it is comparable.

    Yeah, I agree that the woman issue is still a live one, come to think of it. I still don’t think it contributed as much to the stuff thrown at Kat as homophobia and racism have contributed to stuff thrown at Adam and Fantasia. But I think you’re right that what Kat heard had some anti-woman stuff involved.

  294. Look at the adds chart for FYEand do a geographcial comparison.

    Okay. It got adds in Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Kentucky, California, Nevada, New York, Rhode Island, Washington, Missouri, Maine, South Carolina, New Mexico, New Jersey, Illinois, Tennessee, Florida, Vermont and Mississippi

    I can’t really see that pattern. Seems like we have stations in the North-East, South, Mid-West and West adding.

    It may be true that all the program directors automatically hated it and most of those just happen to Clear Channel, but that just doesn’t pass my smell test.

    Does the fact that the two largest Clear Channel stations, two stations which did not add FYE, added WWFM have any effect on the smell test? Is it possible they weren’t being homophobic and simply didn’t like the song?

    Hey, I know that a lot of people love LLWD, but it ain’t exactly a barn burner, however look at the number of PDs that decided to give it a least a spin and test the public’s preference. Didn’t Adam rate at least a spin?

    RCA pulled the plug after three weeks (I’m sure they stopped pushing it when they gave it to OHP to premier and then KIIS and Z100 stared playing it). All those program directors didn’t give LLWD test spins in the first three weeks either. Kris and his Jive team worked radio and it paid off. In fact, it seems during that first week, FYE got a lot more test spins from different radio stations than LLWD. I remember people crowing about that.

  295. Looks like FYE had very poor sales in UK. At least it is not in Top 75 of best albums.

  296. “But this is 2009. He isn’t like the little girl being marched to her classroom in Little Rock in the 1950’s. I assume he can go down the street without rocks being thrown at him, he can rent an apartment, he can eat in a restaurant, he isn’t being sent to an internment camp. I have a lot of friends of various sexual orientations. The prejudice encountered is not really all that severe. Most of them lead normal lives.”

    People may not be throwing shit anymore, but some of them would like to!

    He may be able to rent an apartment, but some people would still rather he didn’t live near them.

    or eat near them…

    and so on. I just thought this type of person was a minority now?

    I don’t think Adam would like to be thought of as a victim, but to invalidate his or anyone elses struggles isn’t fair. Just because it is easier now than it was 20 years ago doesn’t mean it isn’t still a struggle and at times hurtful. If it were so nice and easy young kids wouldn’t be killing themselves over it.

  297. Kirsten
    11/29/2009 at 5:50 pm

    Wow…you are efficient. But I must say that it did not get any spins in some very “cowboy” oriented patriarctical areas like Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and Arizona. All areas with a pretty high anti-gay population and a pretty stong conservative religious base. But then, these areas may not play any GaGa, or Rhianna, or MnM (I refuse to learn to spell that) as well. Don’t listen to radio so wouldn’t know.

  298. Just because it is easier now than it was 20 years ago doesn’t mean it isn’t still a struggle and at times hurtful. If it were so nice and easy young kids wouldn’t be killing themselves over it.

    I agree. Also, the internet gives people a new way to spout their prejudices. They may not throw stones, but they don’t hesitate to post their true feelings. And kids know that.

  299. I think these broad stereotypes and generalizations are harmful. Adam has black fans, maybe they don’t go to idol concerts but they definitely have supported him, purchased his cd, and voted their little fingers off. As for black folk being any more unaccepting of gays is just another one of those myths. I remember on openly gay performer, that had widespread acceptance in the black community, and he got radio play on urban stations. Anyone remember Sylvester? He sang with Two Tons of Fun, who later became The Weather Girls of It’s Raining Men fame.

    i certainly do – and loved him and his music… he was fiercer than fierce in vocal style and in his attitude to be out and proud in a time when many artists, black and white, were afraid to poke their heads out of the closet…. You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is one of my all time favorite jams – no offense to adam lambert, but he wishes he could wail and rock as fierce as sylvester, may he rest in peace… thanks for bringing him to the for abbysee – he doesn’t get half the props he deserves as a true trailblazer for openly gay artists… ain’t nothin’ or nobody new under the sun… it’s all been done, usually much better….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG2ixYJ79iE

  300. Jersey, I wasn’t talking about real life lesbians, because the reason that people don’t come out in real life isn’t always the same as why celebrities don’t come out to the public. Alot of stars who are closeted aren’t closeted to their families, but to preserve their stardom, because of blanket homophobia. In the pop music world however, women who are openly bi-sexual and lesbian are more accepted than males.

  301. Looks like FYE had very poor sales in UK. At least it is not in Top 75 of best albums.

    I thought it hadn’t been released there yet.

  302. k0ka
    11/29/2009 at 5:52 pm
    Looks like FYE had very poor sales in UK. At least it is not in Top 75 of best albums.

    Was the hard copy CD released in the UK? And, if so, was their anykind of promotion for it?
    ETA: Yeh…wasn’t the release date Dec. 8th or something.

  303. DLee
    11/29/2009 at 6:01 pm

    Looks like FYE had very poor sales in UK. At least it is not in Top 75 of best albums.

    I thought it hadn’t been released there yet.

    I thought it was. From RCA – For Your Entertainment out now!

    We’re very happy to announce that Adam Lambert’s debut album is out now. You can head over to the shop to get your copy online right now!

    The album came after a year of hard work from Adam, working with people like Lady Gaga, Matt Bellamy from Muse and Justin Hawkins from The Darkness.

    It’s already shooting to the upper reaches of the chart in the US, and you can expect big things from Adam in the UK too.

  304. Ggdoorsfan, I think we are kindred spirits in most cases, lol! He was incredible and a trailblazer! One of my favorites is his You Are My Friend, makes we want to raise my lighter, if I still carried one!

  305. Wow’ ¦you are efficient. But I must say that it did not get any spins in some very ‘cowboy’  oriented patriartical areas like Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and Arizona.

    I think Texas might be offended not to be included in the “cowboy” oriented areas. It got adds in Texas.

    I thought Colorado was fairly liberal with all those hi-tech parks, herbal tea factories and chi-chi micro-breweries. Maybe it’s like Oregon with it’s ultra-liberal granola-types and Aryan nation enclaves. No adds in Oregon, either.

    I can’t keep track of US religious politics. It’s far too byzantine for me.

  306. Was the hard copy CD released in the UK? And, if so, was their anykind of promotion for it?

    I received my 2 CD ´s from amazon UK. I don ´t know about promotion because I am in Spain.

    ETA: There was the MP3 for download too, but I could not download for being in Spain. I downloaded the album from iTunes Spain.

  307. k0ka
    11/29/2009 at 5:52 pm
    Looks like FYE had very poor sales in UK. At least it is not in Top 75 of best albums.

    Was the hard copy CD released in the UK? And, if so, was their anykind of promotion for it?

    I don’t think so. … I’d kind of understood that you could only buy it there as an import or electronically and without specific promotion, and that they plan a specific international edition that’ll be specifically released later. Import album prices tend to be pretty high, so it’s not surprising that it wouldn’t sell much in that form.

  308. I think everyone in the Village People are gay…aren’t they? I never thought they weren’t, anyway…

  309. Okay. It got adds in Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Kentucky, California, Nevada, New York, Rhode Island, Washington, Missouri, Maine, South Carolina, New Mexico, New Jersey, Illinois, Tennessee, Florida, Vermont and Mississippi

    Kirsten
    11/29/2009 at 5:50 pm

    Wow’ ¦you are efficient. But I must say that it did not get any spins in some very ‘cowboy’  oriented patriartical areas like Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and Arizona. All areas with a pretty high anti-gay population and a pretty stong conservative religious base.

    I know Country music is huge in many areas in the South and midwest, so it could just be genre. No Arkansas, no Alabama, no surprise. Kind of surprised about Louisana. I thought New Orleans was pretty progressive.

  310. I do enjoy Kris and Adam’s friendship given their differences of personality, but find it sad that Kris was given so much credit for just not being an asshat of a human being.

    ITA
    Doesn’t this prove how homophobic this country really is? Why does someone get a pat on the back for “being nice to the gay guy”? Should Kris also get a special nod because he was accepting of the hispanic girl or the the mixed-race guy?
    Kris shouldn’t get special recognition for doing what should be expected from all human beings. (I’m sure he would agree with this.)

  311. I think Texas might be offended not to be included in the ‘cowboy’  oriented areas. It got adds in Texas.

    Texas has some pretty progessive cities, i.e. Houston and Dallas. Also, many large corporations are headquarted in Texas. You have a very diverse population in the bigger cities.

  312. I think everyone in the Village People are gay’ ¦aren’t they? I never thought they weren’t, anyway’ ¦

    Most of them aren’t. I remember reading about one of them being gay, but not sure if he is the only one. The more pertinent point to this discussion is that were assumed to be gay.

  313. DLee
    Both Adam and Kris were released to the UK iTunes. Adam is at #43 & Kris is at #124 In POP (I think these # are right – I took a very quick look). I don’t think either of them did advertising. *shrug*

  314. Texas has some pretty progessive cities, i.e. Houston and Dallas. Also, many large corporations are headquarted in Texas. You have a very diverse population in the bigger cities.

    I know. I’m just saying that if we are going to stereotype states as being “cowboy”, that fits the Texas stereotype.

    I think that during a discussion of prejudice, it’s a bit odd to classify an entire state as “cowboy”. It’s like how a lot of people were worried about Adam’s reception in the South during the tour where that is where he had some of his warmest receptions. Meanwhile, one of the protests groups showed up in the San Francisco area.

    There are idiots and good people everywhere.

  315. Ggdoorsfan, I think we are kindred spirits in most cases, lol! He was incredible and a trailblazer! One of my favorites is his You Are My Friend, makes we want to raise my lighter, if I still carried one!

    lolol…. maybe we have been around long enough, and followed music and trends long enough i think to separate the wheat from the chaff, the pretenders from the real deal… i have pretty much just sat back and chuckled at folks who think lambert is doing something new, being an openly gay artist, or the first openly gay artist to record as such in pop music… how soon, and sad, that we forget or overlook artists such as sylvester… he definitely deserves recognition for really going against the grain, and being pretty darn successful at it too… ”raises lighter for sylvester”

  316. ITA- Some Bo fans hating on Carrie or some Archie fans hating on Cook is not the same thing as homophobes hating on Adam and Clay or racists hating on Fantasia and Rueben.

    Very true statements. Hating someone for their race, politics, religion or sexual perference is distructive. As long as people are good & not bothering anyone & just trying to live their lives is all people should care about. Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time & racists come in all colors. I have seen a lot of racist African Americans too.

    I’m not going to lie, I never liked Adam Lambert. I knew he was gay as it was obvious to me & I don’t have the best gardar in the world. I didn’t think he was genuine. I saw an actor on stage & during the competition, I only really enjoyed one performance (Mad World). I felt he was way over hyped & over-rated. I didn’t like the inevitable scream he did and his “playing” a part on stage. He worked too hard at being who his audience wanted him to be. Yes, compared to the rest, he was a seasoned performer on that stage which overshawdowed all the others who looked like amateurs compared to him. I don’t recall any previous contestant ever being a “seasoned” a performer like he was. However, this wasn’t a show for seasoned performers to compete. I understand the exposure thing….I like to see the underdog – that kind of fresh kid off the block who just needs a break, growing & progressing on this so-called amateur reality show.

    Though I never saw the season Clay competed in, I “caught” up and I found his vocals fantastic. Clay can sing Adam under the table. I thought Clay was gay but that didn’t bother me one bit. He seemed like a genuinely nice guy too & that’s what influences me. No, I’m not a Claymate.

    I do not understand why some people feel threatened by gays. Who cares! It’s not like it’s a phase or a choice – there have been homosexuals since the beginning of time.

    Character means everything to me & it influences me somewhat if I like an artist. I wouldn’t care to buy an artist’s music if they are convicted felons, abuse women, children, animals (whatever) or if they condone drugs, & whatnot. There are too many other good artists out there.

    Here is my issue with Lambert. If you don’t like him you are accused of being right off the bat as homophobic – a “hater.” Nobody is permitted to criticize him because then you are bashing him or you are a homophobic. I simply don’t like his type of music but I think he has a good voice to be sure. However, it’s not just my personal perference, there is something about him just didn’t sit right with me. I felt he was not genuine. I know he’s gay (always thought so) but as I said, I don’t care. Let him live his life. I don’t care what he or anyone does in their private life. I don’t want to hear about anyone’s sex life, their use of drugs, or whatever. Adam however is very vocal now about these things now that A.I. is over.

    Adams has a problem. First of all he believes in his own hype. He believes he is a superstar & that he can act outrageous & that anything he does is okay – because he’s trying to “shock” people, or be outrageous, or whatever. He has the media supporting him and as far as I can see most A.I. blogs. In many cases, I feel that though I go there for news it lands up being practically an Adam blog site as most subjects have something about him. If I had a dime for everytime I read “Oh, that’s just Adam…” I’d be rich. Adam is a new artist & as such, he hasn’t paid his dues. He hasn’t proven anything. He didn’t even win the darn contest and during the competition itself, he didn’t break any “records” either. He isn’t original – a person who broke new ground or introduced a totally new type of music. There aren’t too many people who have done that. You can’t be another Elvis or another Freddie Mercury or Queen or Michael Jackson. His music is not “rock” either. It’s more theatre or cabaret. Adam’s outrageous behavior at the AMAs proved to me his true & rather immature character. He didn’t plan some of the racier stunts – it was impromptu & felt right to him. If displaying that kind of porn-like behavior & I do see the “BJ” as porn, on national tv felt right to him, then I think he has no idea how to conduct himself accordingly in public.

    I clearly understand that people are more open today. You see things on TV, in movies, etc., that was not acceptable in the past. However, the reality is that in America, we aren’t quite ready for some things. However, I am sure that the Glamberts will go out & buy his CDs just to boost his sales & continue to support him no matter what. Just remember, he reminded you that you had nothing to do with his success while competiting on A.I. – he doesn’t owe you a thing – he did it all by himself – it was his talent alone. Now, he might be sorry he said that, so he’s going about telling you he loves you. It’s what you want to hear, not what he himself really believes.

  317. Why does someone get a pat on the back for ‘being nice to the gay guy’ ? Should Kris also get a special nod because he was accepting of the hispanic girl or the the mixed-race guy?

    Speaking only for myself, I give credit to Kris not for ‘being nice to the gay guy’, but for the classy way he handled all the media attention / attempts to sensationalize the differences between Adam and him.

  318. lolol’ ¦. maybe we have been around long enough, and followed music and trends long enough i think to separate the wheat from the chaff, the pretenders from the real deal’ ¦ i have pretty much just sat back and chuckled at folks who think lambert is doing something new, being an openly gay artist, or the first openly gay artist to record as such in pop music’ ¦ how soon, and sad, that we forget or overlook artists such as sylvester’ ¦ he definitely deserves recognition for really going against the grain, and being pretty darn successful at it too’ ¦ ‘ raises lighter for sylvester’ 

    You may be right. But it is new territory if no one remembers. Very sad, but true.

  319. I have a hard time seeing him as a victim.

    I agree with you, ross.
    I think the hate that is directed at Adam is mostly seen online, and for the most part, only those in the AI bubble see those terrible comments. Mainstream media outlets, especially writers in the print media, love Adam, and they are more than happy to deride Kris out in the open. In other words, Kris gets hate both in and out of the AI bubble, whereas the hate against Adam (which I agree is harmful and demeaning) isn’t seen in the more widely-read newspapers/magazines. So while it’s true that Adam gets a good deal of hate, most of it is limited to certain websites and is also overshadowed by the love he gets from the bigger media outlets. I feel like it’s more “acceptable” in the mainstream media to trash and belittle Kris, and Kris isn’t allowed to defend himself by saying that people “just don’t get him” or that he’s being “discriminated against.” I’m not saying that Adam doesn’t face discrimination or that the homophobia isn’t insidious; it’s just that I don’t think mainstream America sees or registers a lot of the Adam-hate. On the other hand, all of America has heard over and over again how “undeserving” Kris is, simply because he’s not the one people expected to win AI8. The media bias against him has been so pervasive and unquestioned, that I feel it’s ultimately more harmful to Kris’s career than the hate Adam has faced, which a lot of media pundits have been quick to defend Adam against. Adam has become a cause clà ¨bre; Kris has become a scapegoat.
    Kris would be the last person to say he’s a victim, and I know some will say, “Tough; the music business is cutthroat, so Kris better man up and get used to that.” True. But I can’t help but think about how different (and how much better for everyone) if, post-finale, the media had just celebrated both men as worthy of praise and success. Instead, Kris continually gets mocked and underrated. I admire him deeply, not just for his talent but for his ability to handle all of the hate with grace and class.

  320. Kris shouldn’t get special recognition for doing what should be expected from all human beings. (I’m sure he would agree with this.)

    Yes, Kris gave a very good answer to this question when Lyndsey Parker interviewed him. She said something about Kris being a “rebel” as well since he as a Christian had befriended a gay Jewish man. Kris replied:

    It doesn’t feel rebellious. It feels the way it should be.

  321. But this is 2009. He isn’t like the little girl being marched to her classroom in Little Rock in the 1950’s. I assume he can go down the street without rocks being thrown at him, he can rent an apartment, he can eat in a restaurant, he isn’t being sent to an internment camp. I have a lot of friends of various sexual orientations. The prejudice encountered is not really all that severe. Most of them lead normal lives.

    He might get rocks thrown at him for being gay in this day and age. People are still beaten up and killed for it. And yes, if people know that someone is gay they might deny them the ability to rent their apartment, join their club, etc. And as we know, they can’t marry in the vast majority of this country and so they can’t get the same rights as partners in many ways. The FBI has reported that hate crimes against people based on sexual orientation was up 11% in 2008 and they have the highest increase of any group. And until recently, there weren’t the same laws protecting based sexual orientation on a national level, as there were for race, color, religion or national origin. Source and sigh of sadness

    So yeah, homophobia is still alive and well and having some real life consequences, from financial ones to physical ones. Being gay is not easy in this country, which is why there is such a high rate of suicide among gay youths.

    BUT that still all doesn’t mean that FYE as a single wasn’t successful because of that alone.

    And anyone? WWFM spins? I’m curious. Some were saying it was doing better than FYE when it started, so I’m curious as to how.

  322. So if WWFM is not played by radio, there is only one reason left.

    I don’t agree. Luck and the business climate have a lot to do with whether a song is a hit or not. If he doesn’t do well is everyone going to cry “it’s because he’s gay”? Not buying this crap. Lot’s of singers better than Adam don’t have hits. Are all of them gay?

  323. Look at the adds chart for FYEand do a geographcial comparison.

    Okay. It got adds in Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Kentucky, California, Nevada, New York, Rhode Island, Washington, Missouri, Maine, South Carolina, New Mexico, New Jersey, Illinois, Tennessee, Florida, Vermont and Mississippi

    Okay that’s 20 of the 50 states. Let’s narrow in. You included Texas. Texas is a big place. The two adds were in Corpus Christi and El Paso. That leaves a lotta on-covered areas. If you look at the other large states that are included in Kirsens list, you will see the same limited number of radio adds.

    As many Kris fans have been doing for the last few weeks. Let’s throw up that google map that shows all the adds that Kris had. It practically covers the nation.

    Again, the point is people all across the country were given the opportunity to hear LLWD. That opportunity was not given to FYE. One can say it was a bad song, but I don’t see where 90% of America got a chance to weigh in on that.

  324. and for Cook fans, the theatre he played in Milwaukee just put up a great slideshow of photos from his show on their site
    http://www.pabsttheater.org/_galleries/cook_riverside_111109/cook.html

    Hee, why did I giggle when Time of My Life started playing? Cool pictures, though!

    Going to the last show on Wednesday in Norfolk… wooooohooo!! Meeting up with concert buddy vascot… we’ll see what our adventure brings us this time. :) Then I’ll be sad later that the neverending tour really is ending. Noooo!

    (BTW, WWFM is the biggest fracking earworm ever. Can.not.get.it.out.of.my.head.)

  325. Again, the point is people all across the country were given the opportunity to hear LLWD. That opportunity was not given to FYE. One can say it was a bad song, but I don’t see where 90% of America got a chance to weigh in on that.

    ITA – how can we say a song has no traction if no one hears it.

    I wonder if some of it is to do with Kris winning AI? Do you think right off the bat people are going to give him a spin because he won? How does it compare with other years? I have no idea as this is the first year I have ever followed AI closely.

  326. You may be right. But it is new territory if no one remembers.

    my hope is that in the wake of this adam ama debacle and fallout, people like sylvester, who have been kinda pushed aside and looked over in the annals of openly gay artists in the music mainstream, will begin receiving their rightful attention…

  327. Speaking only for myself, I give credit to Kris not for ‘being nice to the gay guy’, but for the classy way he handled all the media attention / attempts to sensationalize the differences between Adam and him.

    Which is another reason I like the Kris/Adam friendship, but a lot of credit I saw was being given to Kris for being such a devout Christian and being friends with Adam. Not by you obviously and cool, but in other places. And of course that played into the whole Red State Danny vs Blue State Adam that the show seemed to be playing up. And part of that Red vs. Blue was Christian Danny vs. gay Adam. At least that’s how I saw it playing out. And when Danny left the show wanted to make ‘guy next door vs. guyliner.’ Still trying to play that card, but of course Kris wasn’t going to play into that. Which again, good for Kris, but he shouldn’t get a cookie just for being a decent human being.

    Going to the last show on Wednesday in Norfolk’ ¦ wooooohooo!! Meeting up with concert buddy vascot’ ¦ we’ll see what our adventure brings us this time. Then I’ll be sad later that the neverending tour really is ending. Noooo!

    Have fun! And I’m not a fan and even I am still like whoa! that the tour is actually ending. End of an era and it sounds like good times, good times, were had by all. Yay!

    (BTW, WWFM is the biggest fracking earworm ever. Can.not.get.it.out.of.my.head.)

    It totally is. Good thing I’ve come to like it, or I’d be like gah! get out of my head!

  328. Kirsten
    11/29/2009 at 6:15 pm

    Sorry…I’ll try to be a little more vague in my descriptions in the future and not quite so literal.

  329. Again, the point is people all across the country were given the opportunity to hear LLWD. That opportunity was not given to FYE. One can say it was a bad song, but I don’t see where 90% of America got a chance to weigh in on that.

    But RCA pulled it after three weeks. There aren’t too many new artists (I can’t think of any on the charts right now) that got blankage coverage over the US in three weeks with their first song.

    And two of the stations that rejected FYE after giving it a test spin were the first to add WWFM. I just don’t see their (KIIS and Z100) actions as homophobic.

  330. Lindsey Rose & her parents.

    I think that’s Lindsey Rose, her dad, and her stepmom (not bio mom) in the photo with Cookie.

  331. Question:
    How do they count the sales through today? I mean, when i bought the CD today, and they scanned it-does something get reported right away? Or do the sales numbers have to do with how many each retail ordered? Like Walmart ordered 30 and all but four were sold. Do the sales count as the 26 that actually sold-How do they keep a count of those that sold. Does some cyber space thingy go up when a CD is scanned??? Last week they predicted Kris at 85,000. He actually only sold 80,000. Where did these numbers come from and are they verified by something or someone?

  332. Kris had an easier path to the win than most of the other idols. Anoop, Lil and Alexis made the mistake of trying to do what the judges wanted them too. Adam had to deal with his drag and male kissing pictures coming out at the beginning of the competion. Danny was dealing with a tragic loss. Lil, Megan, Alexis and Michael probably really missed their kids. Scott wasn’t treated very well. On the internet people feel they can say what they want since it is anonymous all the homophobic comments, hating people who go through tragedies, racism and criticism of single parents and people with disabilities is very real and effects voting and the outcome. People who spew their hate on the internet are just sometimes too cowardly to admit it publicly. IMO their opinions are more dangerous in a way since so many people discount them. I could tell who would win from the comments on the internet .

  333. Clay can sing Adam under the table.

    Ummm — I do realize that this is your opinion. However, I beg to differ. I admit I was *sort of* a Clay fan in Season 2. Looking at the competition that year (which wasn’t saying a whole lot), I wanted him to win. Season 8 GREATLY changed my thinking. To me, there is absolutely no comparison between Clay and Adam. Regardless of the apples and oranges scenario……. I feel that Adam is be best vocalist/performer that American Idol has showcased in the past 8 seasons. And yes, I have seen them all!

  334. Why has there never been 1 ‘” not 1 ‘” song by a new artist who was a gay American that has gotting significant radio airplay on US radio?

    Isn’t LadyGaga bi-sexual? Poker Face is about her bi-sexuality, right? I don’t think Lady Gaga got spins based on her sexual orientation. Just Dance was a monster.

    Adam is a new artist. Program Directors don’t know him. There are a ton of songs that are up for play and it’s competitive. FYE was not a good song ‘” hence why it didn’t get many spins and why RCA quickly swapped it out with another single. And lo!WWFM is getting more spins ‘“ and spins from KIIS and Z100.

    Not to repeat my entire original comment — but the key point was that IF WWFM does get airplay I will start to believe there is bias on radio against gay men.

    1. Lady GaGa is not a gay man.

    2. I wasn’t commenting on FYE.

    3. Adam is not a new artist who is unknown — he is a new artist who is very well known, and popular Idol runner up.

    4. WWFM has been added by 8 stations — 3 where Adam has done interview/promos, 2 in Canada and 3 others. I expect to see some adds next week.

    5. WWFM is not getting much airplay yet — they just started to promote WWFM, it officially went for adds on 11/24 and for the past 7 days got 331 spins, audience 4.78 million because it is being spun in NY and LA. They have just been promoting it since Tuesday — so we’ll see.

    On the specific question you quoted, the highest charting openly gay male artist debut on US radio that we have come up with is “Hollywood’s Not America” Ferras Al Qaisi which peaked at 62 on the Billboard Hot 100 with some solid airplay.

    U.S. Billboard Pop 100 Airplay 39
    U.S. Billboard Top 40 Mainstream 32

  335. Now that the AMA performances are a week in the past, I can say that the day after felt sort of like the day after I read his RS article. Sure I knew Adam was gay but I didn’t know about the other stuff he mentioned in that article. I had to have an evaluation moment after that. I had to have a similar moment post his AMA performance. He hit a lot of my thumbs down buttons during that performance (the Kiss wasn’t really one of them) and his immediate day after response wasn’t too cool with me. So I had to evaluate my committment to him as a fan. In the end, I am still a fan. I love his album. I want that album to sell huge so that other people can enjoy his music and get a taste of his talent. I want to hear what he will put out for his sophomore effort. I find him attractive, hugely talented, incredibly interesting. And though he may have crossed the bounds of good taste imo last week, it doesn’t change the core reasons I was into him in the first place. I knew Adam and I didn’t exactly share the same set of morals and boundaries after reading that RS interview. In a way, I am glad we got to see raunchy, bad boy Adam because he has given everyone who wanted a reason to bail as a fan the opportunity to do so now at the beginning. I’m willing to give him another chance to make good on all that potential. My biggest dissappointment after the AMAs had to do with the off vocals. If he had nailed the song, I would have forgiven the other aspects of the show a lot sooner. I was afraid that the choices he made that night had killed his career before he had had a chance to get started. A week later, all the complaints about Adam seem a little empty and meaningless. I am ready to move on and hear more of the music. Hopefully booming from my car radio on the way to work. WWFM was added to KISS 106.1 in Dallas(huge top 40 station) on the 25th of November. Yay Texas!

  336. Reinharv, that take you have on Adam is the exact way I felt about Clay, if you don’t think he was playing to the claymates then I have the perfect bridge to sell to you. Everything from the he’s a humanitarian (they actually funded his foundation, before it was a foundation), to I am just a straight country boy which has definitely been refuted was a farce. He was a creation as much as you think Adam was. As for this Adam was a professional and nobody else was, seriously? Adam was a cruise ship performer and a chorus boy. His body of work floating out there prior to idol was actually less extensive than Clay’s. If you think he can outsing Adam, fine, but I opine that Adam can sing everything Clay has ever sung well, but I don’t think Clay could pull of WLL, of PTFMWB, truly, I would love to see it, but only for shits and grins, lol.

  337. Here is another twitpic of Dave and Lindsey Rose including her parents.

    Happy Holidays from the Belchers and Uncle Dave

    I was going to post that…. Mrs. Belcher is certainly built.

  338. People who spew their hate on the internet are just sometimes too cowardly to admit it publicly.

    I don’t know if I agree with your whole post, but this line has blinking lights around it for me. Imagine if most of the hate that is written is actually said out loud on a street corner. Can you imagine the number of heads that would turn and the looks that would be given?

  339. http://www.apple.com/uk/itunes/top-100/albums/

    According to this FYE the album is #73 in the UK. However, I posted previously that FYE the single was #30 in the UK but when I just clicked on top iTunes songs in the UK I couldn’t find it. I get a little confused as to pop, overall and all that jazz because iTunes isn’t the best organized site in the world IMHO.

  340. But RCA pulled it after three weeks.

    Does that mean they asked the radio stations not to play it. I’m not sure what the term means?

  341. Kris had an easier path to the win than most of the other idols.

    It’s a miracle Kris even made it out of the semi-finals with the amount of pre-voting round exposure he had. He had to battle the fact that most people had already picked a horse by the time they got to see him do his stuff. But let’s not re-hash the season.

  342. Does that mean they asked the radio stations not to play it. I’m not sure what the term means?

    I suspect that they contacted the program managers and started promoting the new single. They may have not exactly told them to stop spinning FYE, but the message was clear that they weren’t going to push FYE anymore. Add in to the fact that OHP, Z100 and KIIS were promoting WWFM as the new single and I think that all the radio stations new exactly what was going on. They’ve seen labels pull support for singles before.

  343. As to Clay singing Adam under the table, in a stand-off of vocal abilities, just let me be in the audience. I know who the winner would be. You see from day one I researched Adam and his singing and his background, parental influence, up-bringing, etc…. and, I am not a Glambert,…..just a woman from Arkansas with a family full of musical talent. It’s magical in our family and I am well aware when certain people have that inborn gene that makes them want to entertain, be on stage ….and, when they are blessed with talent that brings joy and entertainment to many people …they should be able to perform on a show like AI. Many that have been on Idol have sang semi-professionally, made CD’s, sang locally and state-wide, etc. such as Carrie…been hearing her at fairs in talent contests in Arkansas since she was a tyke….she was used to crowds, believe me,
    when she went on Idol…nothing wrong with that. If Adam knows he is a good singer, and, wants to sing and entertain, there are many of us who will buy his music, see his tours over and over. I find Adam
    humble, yes, humble…..and, I saw fear on his face when the spotlight first hit him on AMA’s and my stomach gripped…I knew he was off that night. All the recent pressure of the gay community, media, etc. had to have an effect on him…plus, wanting to do his best, after seeing all the sexual antics that had been on before him, probably did not help. He tried to be more than he needed to be. His performaces on CBS and
    Letterman proved that he need showcase nothing but his voice. I have a gay niece who was one of The Four Non Blondes in the 90’s…..I know, from talking to her Mom, how hard the industry is …and, especially for gay entertainers. She did not hide her sexual preference either..but, I don’t know why, but gay women seen to have a lot less pressure sometimes than gay men.
    I love Adam and I love his personality and don’t feel like he is just out for Adam only. He has always shown the utmost appreciation to everyone who has helped him along the way and they all think a lot of him..which says all I need to hear. He’s new at fame and he will adjust and grow and I know one thing….I will be right there as one of his biggest fans!(MJ, I don’t comment too often..and, hope I didn’t over-step) sorry, but, just had to get my say in tonight!

    edited

  344. ”I think these broad stereotypes and generalizations are harmful. Adam has black fans, maybe they don’t go to idol concerts but they definitely have supported him, purchased his cd, and voted their little fingers off. As for black folk being any more unaccepting of gays is just another one of those myths. I remember on openly gay performer, that had widespread acceptance in the black community, and he got radio play on urban stations. Anyone remember Sylvester? He sang with Two Tons of Fun, who later became The Weather Girls of It’s Raining Men fame.”

    i certainly do ‘“ and loved him and his music’ ¦ he was fiercer than fierce in vocal style and in his attitude to be out and proud in a time when many artists, black and white, were afraid to poke their heads out of the closet’ ¦. You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is one of my all time favorite jams ‘“ no offense to adam lambert, but he wishes he could wail and rock as fierce as sylvester, may he rest in peace’ ¦ thanks for bringing him to the fore abbysee ‘“ he doesn’t get half the props he deserves as a true trailblazer for openly gay artists’ ¦ ain’t nothin’ or nobody new under the sun’ ¦ it’s all been done, usually much better’ ¦.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue2UXnxp8Rs&NR=1&feature=fvwp

    eta… updated the video for a better representation of the fierceness that was sylvester :wink:

  345. But RCA pulled it after three weeks. There aren’t too many new artists (I can’t think of any on the charts right now) that got blankage coverage over the US in three weeks with their first song.

    And two of the stations that rejected FYE after giving it a test spin were the first to add WWFM. I just don’t see their (KIIS and Z100) actions as homophobic.

    I don’t think that we know for a fact that RCA pulled the song. But let’s say they did. RCA has been in this business for years, but even you know that three weeks is not enough to time to get national radio add coverage or to gauge whether a song is going to be received well by the public. So there must be some other factor involved if RCA chose to pull it if they did.

    Again, the point that I am trying to make does not have anything to do specifically with FYE. The point as Q3 has stated, is that generally gay artists do not get played on the radio. So far, the facts see to be supporting that point. Yes, FYE may not have been played because it is bad, but 90% of the nation never heard it, so 90% of the nation never got to make that choice. IMO, Britney’s 3 is bad, but I am subjected to that on a regular basis.

    Some say WWFM is a better song. I will wait to see if it gets more radio play.

    Let me add, I don’t personally have enough statiscal data to support radio homophobia at this time. I am taking a wait and see attitude.

  346. It’s a miracle Kris even made it out of the semi-finals with the amount of pre-voting round exposure he had. He had to battle the fact that most people had already picked a horse by the time they got to see him do his stuff.

    I don’t know. He did great with Man in the Mirror and I recall many people were pleased that he made it through. But I guess if it was a horse race, Kris wasn’t considered a thoroughbred, but rather a pony. I also think that when someone’s horse fell out of the race, they were determined not to let another horse win. So by default, they picked the pretty pony?

  347. Wow Maggie Mae. Just Wow. What a FANTASTIC post!!!! Thank you for that!!! :)

  348. i have pretty much just sat back and chuckled at folks who think lambert is doing something new, being an openly gay artist, or the first openly gay artist to record as such in pop music’ ¦

    Well, I remember Sylvester fondly, but I still think the Adam thing is kind of different. Nobody ever marketed Sylvester as a sex symbol to all people, and as a serious singer in a mainstream kind of way, singing serious ballads and such as well as dance tunes.

    I remember him being a cute, fun flamboyant out-there drag queen in a day when discos were the cool, fun thing — I remember him as part of the fun, dance scene, in which a lot of the straight people who liked disco danced in gay clubs, while a lot of people who disdained disco didn’t even really necessarily know that that music existed and probably knew next to nothing about the artists who produced it. …. So it just wasn’t mainstream in the same way that people are trying to be now, in my opinion ….

  349. I think these broad stereotypes and generalizations are harmful. Adam has black fans, maybe they don’t go to idol concerts but they definitely have supported him, purchased his cd, and voted their little fingers off. As for black folk being any more unaccepting of gays is just another one of those myths. I remember on openly gay performer, that had widespread acceptance in the black community, and he got radio play on urban stations. Anyone remember Sylvester? He sang with Two Tons of Fun, who later became The Weather Girls of It’s Raining Men fame.

    i certainly do ‘“ and loved him and his music’ ¦ he was fiercer than fierce in vocal style and in his attitude to be out and proud in a time when many artists, black and white, were afraid to poke their heads out of the closet’ ¦. You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is one of my all time favorite jams ‘“ no offense to adam lambert, but he wishes he could wail and rock as fierce as sylvester, may he rest in peace’ ¦ thanks for bringing him to the fore abbysee ‘“ he doesn’t get half the props he deserves as a true trailblazer for openly gay artists’ ¦ ain’t nothin’ or nobody new under the sun’ ¦ it’s all been done, usually much better’ ¦.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkrKYvJpxcg&feature=related

    eta… updated the video for a better representation of the fierceness that was sylvester :wink:

  350. Wow Maggie Mae. Just Wow. What a FANTASTIC post!!!! Thank you for that!!!

    Hand clasps and whoops. Gotta add to that. Well said, Maggie Mae.

  351. And two of the stations that rejected FYE after giving it a test spin were the first to add WWFM. I just don’t see their (KIIS and Z100) actions as homophobic.

    And they are still playing WWFM? And not in the dreaded overnight?

    4. WWFM has been added by 8 stations ‘” 3 where Adam has done interview/promos, 2 in Canada and 3 others. I expect to see some adds next week.

    5. WWFM is not getting much airplay yet ‘” they just started to promote WWFM, it officially went for adds on 11/24 and for the past 7 days got 331 spins, audience 4.78 million because it is being spun in NY and LA. They have just been promoting it since Tuesday ‘” so we’ll see.

    About those adds, isn’t this the time of that freeze/slowdown holiday times in adding new music? So who knows how that will impact adds for WWFM. And Adam’s noteriety and dislike for his perceived raunchiness may have more to do with stations being hesitant to play him at this point than anything else.

  352. Here’s a really good vid from Cook’s concert last night in Orlando
    song is ‘Straight Ahead’ .

    I adore that vid. What Dave said in the banter was almost like putting a period at the end of a sentence or the closing of the chapter of this album and the tour while looking ahead to what’s to come in the future. For those of us who have gotten to at least 1 show on this tour, it’s going to be bittersweet but I’m looking forward to what’s to come. :)

    About those adds, isn’t this the time of that freeze/slowdown holiday times in adding new music?

    The holiday freeze is during the week of Christmas and New Years. You won’t see any new adds during those couple of weeks.

  353. Adams has a problem. First of all he believes in his own hype. He believes he is a superstar & that he can act outrageous & that anything he does is okay

    I like Adam, and he has faced a lot of discrimination. But Adam doesn’t seem to be doing any worse than any of the other American Idol runner ups. I don’t remember ever hearing Bo Bice, Blake Lewis, or Katherine McPhee on the radio either. I don’t even remember hearing Ruben, Carrie or Fantasia on the radio this early after their albums came out.

    Sometimes it does seem like people see Adam not getting the superstar treatment and think it’s all because of discrimination. But maybe he just isn’t singing and performing things that people really want to hear.

    After the finale, I did think Adam lost because of discrimination. But seeing him perform on the AMAs reminded me of how often he sings things that aren’t as popular. Now I wonder if he could have won Idol after all if he had sang more songs like Mad World and toned down the screams.

    I shouldn’t have to like songs that I don’t just to prove that I support equality. If Adam had sang more songs like Mad World on his album I would have bought it.

  354. I received my FYE CDs a few days ago but just today I had the chance to sit down and thoroughly enjoy listening. The one I ordered on AO and the one on Amazon, I got them simultaneously!!

    Good times.

    Then I started reading this thread and was reminded of the homophobia issue and after a while I had to just stop listening. I took off my head set and started to just cry’ ¦ no, not cry, sob.

    The possibilities of rejection because of homophobia of Adam or any other gay artist, it doesn’t bother me. It HURTS me, it hurts like hell.

    As a foreigner, an observant if you will, I’m aware of its existence for as long as I can remember, so I don’t understand the denial from some. And I’ve been in many, many states over the years.

    And you may ask what does it have to do with me, if I’m not an American? It’s not just because of Adam, it’s because the USA has a lot of influence in my country, and cultural, social shifts take a long, long time to permeate here, but eventually they do. So what hope is left for us here, where homophobia is even more ingrained in our Latin culture?

    Oh well, I’ll wipe my tears and continue listening to my CD. Hope I can put this in the back of my mind.

  355. lolol’ ¦. maybe we have been around long enough, and followed music and trends long enough i think to separate the wheat from the chaff, the pretenders from the real deal’ ¦ i have pretty much just sat back and chuckled at folks who think lambert is doing something new, being an openly gay artist, or the first openly gay artist to record as such in pop music’ ¦ how soon, and sad, that we forget or overlook artists such as sylvester’ ¦ he definitely deserves recognition for really going against the grain, and being pretty darn successful at it too’ ¦ ‘ raises lighter for sylvester’ 

    Actually, I think that for one brief moment in the 1970’s it looked like there was a chance for people to be open about their sexuality and freely express it. But IMO that got crushed in the US by a wave of conservatism in 1980 and then by the plague [AIDS]. Hopefully, now that we have a second chance, maybe we’ll get it right this time.

    Clearly, Adam recognizes the debt he owes to the 70’s and 80’s artists. He talked about it a lot and his album is filled with references to 70’s and 80’s music. And many of his older fans, like me, loved the glam rock, expermental rock, heavy metal, disco, new wave/punk and other music from this period. From the glam rock track “Music Again” to the neo-psychedelic rock track “Down The Rabbit Hole”, I find that FYE is a sonic treasure trove.

    I haven’t forgotten Sylvester, the Queen of Disco. Out, proud and total fantastic. But as I recall, it wasn’t important or even notable that Sylvester was a drag queen — people just cared about the music. Here is a link to an old promo video of Sylvester — now sounds dated but it was fun at the time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue2UXnxp8Rs

    For me, listening to FYE album and watching the FYE music video reconfirmed that there is a lot more to Adam as a performer than just a gay guy who can sing. As always YMMV and that is totally cool with me.

  356. ggdoorsfan
    11/29/2009 at 6:49 pm

    Not to put any damper on anyone’s enthusiasm for Sylvester, and yes, he was fun and a good singer but he did play into all the stereotypical conceptions of the gay in America circa 1970….and did many of his performances in drag. And his home turf was the Castro district of San Francisco which was then and still is a very gay friendly community. I don’t remember him touring much outside of the gay comfort zone….or trying to fit into a predominantly hetrosexual music business….he played up his gayness and almost presented himself as a novelty act. And, at that time disco was alive and well and his persona fit in well with the counter culture crowd of that era….I should know I was part of it.

    So yes, I will give him his much deserved kudos and he did remarkably well….but his “act” was limiting.

  357. maggie mae Thanks for your words. I think they sum up what many of us view Adam and his situation. Your sincerity is heartfelt.

  358. maggie mae’ ¦what an absolutely beautiful post. Standing O.

    I second it!! :)

  359. Well, I remember Sylvester fondly, but I still think the Adam thing is kind of different. Nobody ever marketed Sylvester as a sex symbol to all people, and as a serious singer in a mainstream kind of way, singing serious ballads and such as well as dance tunes.

    I remember him being a cute, fun flamboyant out-there drag queen in a day when discos were the cool, fun thing ‘” I remember him as part of the fun, dance scene, in which a lot of the straight people who liked disco danced in gay clubs, while a lot of people who disdained disco didn’t even really necessarily know that that music existed and probably knew next to nothing about the artists who produced it. ‘ ¦. So it just wasn’t mainstream in the same way that people are trying to be now, in my opinion ‘ ¦.

    sylvester, as an openly gay artist recording in the mainstream, and disco was pretty mainstream from the mid to late 70’s and early 80’s, and adam as an openly gay artist, recording in the mainstream, of which dance/electonica/pop now rules top 40, for me is the same thing… people like to try and slag disco and the disco era, and a lot of the artists that arose from it, and sometimes i’ve wondered if that was because it was heavily influenced by gays and gay culture, along with tons of black artists, gay and straight, who were some of its hugest stars – like sylvester…. the struggle for acceptance for openly gay artists in pop music is nothing new, and perhaps this ama debacle will bring spotlight on artists who really can be considered pioneers and trailblazers for the cause – like sylvester…

  360. There is no business model in which spending a minimum quarter mil to film and cut a music video is “pulling FYE”.

    Pulling? Is that something that even happens?

    Here’s a conversation not happening: “Oh hi, radio station, please give me back that single. We’re “pulling” it. Yes, the one with the new sizzling video. Right, the title track from the album scheduled to sell 200k plus. You can’t have that anymore.”

    Adam has said since FYE was merely a twinkle in his eye: VARIETY!

    Isn’t it possible that RCA is attempting to cover all bases? Have something for the broad range of fans that Adam’s gigantic range of styles captured over the season?

  361. How do they count the sales through today? I mean, when i bought the CD today, and they scanned it-does something get reported right away? Or do the sales numbers have to do with how many each retail ordered? Like Walmart ordered 30 and all but four were sold. Do the sales count as the 26 that actually sold-How do they keep a count of those that sold. Does some cyber space thingy go up when a CD is scanned??? Last week they predicted Kris at 85,000. He actually only sold 80,000. Where did these numbers come from and are they verified by something or someone?

    SoundScan is based solely on sales and return transactions — not a change in retail inventory.

    Retailers send Nielsen SoundScan an electronic file that is a summary of transactions from their POS [point of sale] systems. They provide both sales and returns. Most, but not all retailers report data from Monday through Sunday. Target is the largest music retailer who has a different schedule [Sunday through Saterday.]

    So your Sunday purchase will be counted.

  362. Not to put any damper on anyone’s enthusiasm for Sylvester, and yes, he was fun and a good singer but he did play into all the stereotypical conceptions of the gay in America circa 1970′ ¦.and did many of his performances in drag. And his home turf was the Castro district of San Francisco which was then and still is a very gay friendly community. I don’t remember him touring much outside of the gay comfort zone’ ¦.or trying to fit into a predominantly hetrosexual music business’ ¦.he played up his gayness and almost presented himself as a novelty act. And, at that time disco was alive and well and his persona fit in well with the counter culture crowd of that era’ ¦.I should know I was part of it.

    So yes, I will give him his much deserved kudos and he did remarkably well’ ¦.but his ‘act’  was limiting.

    erm… the irony here is amazing… adam’s ama performance has been written about as possibly doing the same thing to him… just sayin’, cause those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

  363. Ruben had the number one song on UAC when his cd dropped, that song was ubiquitous on mainstrean URBAN radio stations. The same way that Carrie was on Country. When people say Ruben who, I laugh because there has not been a day since his first single dropped that I have not heard him when I turned on my radio. He has had a radio hit from every one of his cds. He garnered way more spins than Clay ever will even as people were touting Clay as the winner. The only person mentioned about that I have never heard on the radio is Kat. Not once.

    As for Sylvester not being a trailblazer because he wasn’t mainstream or nobody remembers him is a false premise. The woman who inspired Rosa Parks to keep her seat name is not known, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t a trailblazer, in fact the person who is the true first isn’t always the one who gets the credit, but if not for them, that thing would not have been accomplished. They are unsung heroes.

  364. I shouldn’t have to like songs that I don’t just to prove that I support equality. If Adam had sang more songs like Mad World on his album I would have bought it.

    I can understand that tons of people won’t want Adam’s album for this exact reason. And it certainly doesn’t make them homophobic.

    If he had only songs like Mad World on the album, though, then it *really* wouldn’t get Top 40 or even HAC radio play, because they simply don’t play Mad-World type of music these days.

    So we’re really talking two completely different things. There’s the fact that not everybody likes his album at all, and that it doesn’t sound at all like some of the stuff that many people liked best on AI, and, understandably, you and other folks in that position won’t buy his album, and that’s a perfectly understandable thing that I haven’t seen called homophobia by anybody, although I may have missed something.

    At the same time, though, he’s got some songs that seem to fit the top 40 and HAC radio formats, two of them being FYE and WWFM. So if, in the end, it turns out that radio won’t even give either of those songs a shot, then it will look as if they’re prejudging the songs on some basis — and part of that may be the homosexuality thing. If no single off Adam’s album was allowed to gain any traction on radio, then I think we’d be on solid ground to think that maybe homophobia had something — though not everything — to do with it.

    Honestly, though, I don’t think that’ll happen. Just as LLWD took off slowly for Kris, stations *did* start picking it up after awhile and now it’s doing pretty well. I’d be really really surprised if the same thing didn’t happen for an Adam single, and probably for WWFM. \

    I’m quite sure that homophobia is alive and well in the United States and in the entertainment industry. But I’m also pretty confident that homophobia isn’t going to keep some single by Adam from doing as well as Kris’s single is doing.

  365. Bravo to reinharv. Thank you!

    Thanks reinharv. Couldn’t hav said it better.

  366. Ruben had the number one song on UAC when his cd dropped, that song was ubiquitous on mainstrean URBAN radio stations. The same way that Carrie was on Country. When people say Ruben who, I laugh because there has not been a day since his first single dropped that I have not heard him when I turned on my radio. He has had a radio hit from every one of his cds. He garnered way more spins than Clay ever will even as people were touting Clay as the winner. The only person mentioned about that I have never heard on the radio is Kat. Not once.

    As for Sylvester not being a trailblazer because he wasn’t mainstream or nobody remembers him is a false premise. The woman who inspired Rosa Parks to keep her seat name is not known, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t a trailblazer, in fact the person who is the true first isn’t always the one who gets the credit, but if not for them, that thing would not have been accomplished. They are unsung heroes.

    so. much. word. thanks abbysee for relaying that point more cogently than i ever could…

  367. I see the discussion about FYE with no spins-remember it was released and Adam did no promo-IMO, it was released as a single solely as an AMA and music video performance piece. It lent itself to visuals-to get him noticed in the crowded music video field and for the AMAs.

    WYYWFM appears to have always been the chosen single, when he began doing radio promos, it was played, Early Show, it was performed, Lettermna, it was performed. I beleive this was the plan all along, FYE was never going to get the spins, as it was not as radio friendly, WYWFM is VERY radio friendly and it beginning to climb the itunes chart as well.

    ya knew it was gonna happen:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP8gVu0tHA4&feature=player_embedded

    Cool fan photo after AMAs:

    http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/kthorpe74/16336_1253576654463_1080951675_7858.jpg

  368. http://www.doipod.com/itunes-chart/top-100-itunes-songs-uk.html

    According to this FYE is #30 on the top 100 iTunes songs in the U.K.

    Ignore that website. It has been using the American chart instead of the UK ones for quite a while now.

    Here’s another one –
    http://ax.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStoreServices.woa/ws/RSS/topsongs/sf=143444/limit=300/xml

    No sign of FYE in top 300. Not that I pay much attention to it but I haven’t noticed any publicity for Adam Lambert.

  369. Maggie Mae I absolutely love your post and totally agree with it. My son-in-law told me Thanksgiving Day that when I talk about Adam I sound like I am talking about one of my grandkids. I believe the older generation seems to understand him more than the younger parents of today.

    I remember the first time Elvis was on TV he was a total disgrace with his hip wiggles. Oh what a shock but we survived.

    I am 66 years old and can’t handle SuBo but will take anything Adam has to offer. He is young and will learn and I am happy to be able to witness his career unfold.

  370. If he had only songs like Mad World on the album, though, then it *really* wouldn’t get Top 40 or even HAC radio play, because they simply don’t play Mad-World type of music these days.
    At the same time, though, he’s got some songs that seem to fit the top 40 and HAC radio formats, two of them being FYE and WWFM. So if, in the end, it turns out that radio won’t even give either of those songs a shot, then it will look as if they’re prejudging the songs on some basis

    You’re entitled to your opinion, but I completely disagree.

    I actually listen to top 40 and HAC, so I know what type of music they play. And aside from the songs Adam got from Pink and Lady Gaga, most of the material from FYE doesn’t really fit. Mad World got airplay because it was made popular by a video game.

  371. Until all radio stations play all genre music, then all music will be niche, and limiting. If I want to hear Ruben, I can’t turn on a top 40 station. If I want to hear Kelly, I can’t turn on an urban station. So I mostly play my own music. When I want new stuff, I ask my kids. In high school I hung out with an eclectic mix of kids. Black, Hispanic, White, and gay. We all knew who Sylvester because to us dance/disco music was universal. Whether he played up his sexuality or not really wasn’t the issue. We really didn’t talk about it that much, we just danced our asses off. Somehow I think Adam knows who Sylvester is!

  372. If Adam had sang more songs like Mad World on his album I would have bought it.

    Obviously Adam does not want to be a one-dimensional artist who sings haunting ballads the rest of his life to keep a few fans happy. And Adam isn’t the only one who didn’t want to be “boxed” in. Archie didn’t want to keep singing every song like Imagine, and Cookie has long since dropped Time of My Life. These Artists aren’t just what they sang on Idol, nor do they want to be identified with what they sang on idol. They want their own careers, with their sound, and they want to sing what makes them feel good as an Artist. And if peeps don’t want to buy it because they don’t “like” the sound or “get” the lyrics…then they should just move on. No Artist is going to become a slave to their “Idol” fans….when they do they kiss their careers goodbye (and some Idols have and are doing that).

  373. sylvester, as an openly gay artist recording in the mainstream, and disco was pretty mainstream from the mid to late 70’s and early 80’s, and adam as an openly gay artist, recording in the mainstream, of which dance/electonica/pop now rules top 40, for me is the same thing’ ¦ people like to try and slag disco and the disco era, and a lot of the artists that arose from it, and sometimes i’ve wondered if that was because it was heavily influenced by gays and gay culture, along with tons of black artists, gay and straight, who were some of its hugest stars ‘“ like sylvester’ ¦. the struggle for acceptance for openly gay artists in pop music is nothing new, and perhaps this ama debacle will bring spotlight on artists who really can be considered pioneers and trailblazers for the cause ‘“ like sylvester’ ¦

    I think that you’re exactly right about why people discounted and sneered at disco. I was dancing in gay clubs every weekend in the 70s with completely mixed-race, mixed-gender-orientation crowds and an amazing time was had by all.

    But I know for a fact that people in all areas of the mainstream, from the easy-listening-listening suburbia-embracing people to the alternative, hippie rock people, really looked down on disco.

    A lot of people I knew absolutely couldn’t believe where and with whom I spent my weekends and that I really loved what they considered a really inferior, low-class musical niche. They talked about “low quality” of the music, but I know for a fact that a lot of the disco music was *great* on every level!

    So I’ve always believed and believe still that the crux of the matter was that the real problem was that it was too gay and too black. I mean, how dare those gay and black people produce an art form that is wonderful and just plain high-spirited fun! That was never stated, of course, partly because a lot of the people I knew who disdained it were also really “liberal.” But I have always figured that that was a lot more where the discomfort lay than in some artistic judgment about the music being inferior or not high-minded enough or something, which is what was usually said!

  374. erm’ ¦ the irony here is amazing’ ¦ adam’s ama performance has been written about as possibly doing the same thing to him’ ¦

    One performance does not a career make though I guess people are entitled to think that you are stuck once you put anything out into the world….no second chances allowed.

  375. And if peeps don’t want to buy it because they don’t ‘like’  the sound or ‘get’  the lyrics’ ¦then they should just move on.

    So when that happens, why does all the conversation revolve around discrimination?

    You already acknowledged that it’s possible that people just don’t like Adam’s music and it has nothing to do with discrimination. So if Adam’s not getting airplay, isn’t it possible people outside of his fans just don’t like his music?

  376. I was one of the people who was willing to give FYE a chance, and I live in a market where the pop station (Z100) wasn’t playing it but the HAC station (WPLJ) had added it but then seemed to decrease the spins, especially after WWFM came into the picture. I never liked FYE though, I thought it was not a good song and it largely reminded me of Britney’s Womanizer.

    I’ve never disguised that I’m not an Adam fan, but I always thought he deserved better than FYE as a lead song and I think RCA made a mistake with the song. I think if WWFM had been released first, then Adam would have been better received by radio. Because FYE was not well received, whether by the public or those in charge at radio stations, or whoever it was, it set a bad precedent for Adam’s future reception on radio.

  377. For whomever beleives Adam is believing his own hype, and is asrrogant, I was standing 15 feet from him at the early show on wednesday and watched him both during interviews when the camera was ‘on’ and when the camera was ‘off’ in between mini interviews for over 1 1/2 hours.

    I was front row his right, within hearing distance of his between take conversations and could watch his behavior up close and personal. (GaGa GLambert was standing just behind me) Boy, was I ever impressed with his warmth, his gregarious and charming personality. And, he was breathtakingly beautiful up close. He made eye contact with everyone, fans and on air personalities alike. Not a glimpse of ‘arrogance’ or ‘believing his own hype’, he was humble and grateful for the opportunity given to him that day. I was duly impressed.

    I spoke to producers, crowd persons and all 3 on air personalities, who were so impressed with his wonderfully charming and polite nature. They all said that he ‘shines’ when he speaks to people and it was stand him in good stead in the future.

    I also was one who was front row at the CBS windows when he performed Music Again and WWFM. He absolutely transformed from the charming sweet man to a fierce focused performer. when he completed his set and his mom was interviewed, he become the warm, sweet boy again that I had witnessed all morning.

    My experience so up close made me even more of a fan that I was before(if that is possible)

    I have watched every episode of every season if idol. I was a fan of CLay’s tenor voice, but found him to have little to no performance ability and no ‘sense’ of who he was a musician and performer.

    As far as Clay singing circles around Adam, even if you do not take into account Adam’s absolutely superior performance ability, and the fact he he has always been ‘camera ready’, Adam’s extensive vocal range in itself allows him to ‘sing circles’ around Clay, even taking into account all of the other strengths Adam has that are required to make anyone a star…

    Sorry for the long post, but IMO confidence is far different that arrogance. Confidence is sexy, arrogance is the opposite and Adam has ‘sexy’ down to a science.

  378. You already acknowledged that it’s possible that people just don’t like Adam’s music and it has nothing to do with discrimination. So if Adam’s not getting airplay, isn’t it possible people outside of his fans just don’t like his music?

    I think the issue is that people aren’t getting to hear to the song to reject it. Also the album has been getting good reviews, in fact, better reviews than Kris’s album. Yet Kris has more airplay. Part of it, of course, is due to the fact that Kris’s single has been out twice has long.

    It’s just curious. That’s all. But of course lots of people are not going to like this genre of music, or Adam’s singing, and it has nothing to do with homophobia.

  379. As for Sylvester not being a trailblazer because he wasn’t mainstream or nobody remembers him is a false premise.

    Did anybody say this? … If you’re remembering me as saying this, then I just expressed myself badly — I certainly never meant to say that he wasn’t a trailblazer. He certainly was!

    All I meant was that with the passing time, there are now some somewhat different trails to blaze as we’ve spiraled onward from that time when gay guys in discos and joke-gay songs from the Village People were the main face of gay people in entertainment — because that was all the society was allowing at the time —

    But now we’re at a time when gay entertainers can try to get a much more non-niche, mainstream role, in which they’re allowed to be seriously themselves sometimes as well as playful, in which they can sing serious songs while wearing suits and *also* more out-there, over-the-top songs while wearing wings or whips or whatever — Rufus Wainright, Adam, they’re trying to be this contemporary form of trailblazer. And they absolutely wouldn’t be in the positions they’re in to try this if there hadn’t been people who went before — but who were forced by the circumstances of their times to perform more in a niche and not have their entertainer personas express the fully rounded people that they were in real life.

    Just because times are improved doesn’t mean you don’t need successive trailblazers. But the trailblazers of each era are going to be different. … And, of course, the later trailblazers do have an easier job because of those that have gone ahead of them.

  380. My daughter requested FYE on Z100 this afternoon, and the person who answered the phone was like “sure no problem”. After awhile we heard WWFM. So now I wonder if they ever played FYE or if we got WWFM instead. (I was still thrilled they played Adam tho).

  381. And aside from the songs Adam got from Pink and Lady Gaga, most of the material from FYE doesn’t really fit.

    I said *some* of it fit! I didn’t say all of it fit!

    I listen to Top 40 and HAC too, at least some of the time — and I can’t say that I *ever* hear ballads like Adam’s Mad World (or ballads, period, actually) *ever* on the stations in my area. But of course that may be different elsewhere …. I hope it is, actually!

  382. So if Adam’s not getting airplay, isn’t it possible people outside of his fans just don’t like his music?

    Of course this is possible…no one is saying otherwise. And conversly if Adam sells well this week, hopefully people will admit that he also has people supporting him that aren’t “fans”.

    I think the conversation about radio is the fact that there have been articles written that it is difficult in some markets for Artists to get “spun” if they do not fit into the socially accepted box. And because many of us feel that being gay is outside of the socially accepted box this may be a factor is Adam sells well and then is not spun on the radio. None of us know what will happen over the next year….hopefully we will be able to discern the truisms once we look back instead of forward.

  383. So I’ve always believed and believe still that the crux of the matter was that the real problem was that it was too gay and too black. I mean, how dare those gay and black people produce an art form that is wonderful and just plain high-spirited fun! That was never stated, of course, partly because a lot of the people I knew who disdained it were also really ‘liberal.’  But I have always figured that that was a lot more where the discomfort lay than in some artistic judgment about the music being inferior or not high-minded enough or something, which is what was usually said!

    … and the struggle continues… your straightforwardness about those undertones for the continuing disco disdain for me is right on the money… there’s always some -ism to get over in this world, and the sooner we begin talking plainly about them, eyes wide open, the better.

  384. In the Idol blog universe (talking generally, not speaking specifically about this place), I don’t automatically equate the hatred directed towards Adam with homophobia. No, to me, more often than not these intense feelings against Adam seem to be rooted in something else – such as jealousy. And it’s not necessarily coming from the Kris fans but from the fans of many of the past Idols, i.e. Archie fans, DC fans, Carrie fans, Daughtry fans, even Elliot fans and Melinda fans.

    There seems to be a general resentment towards Adam because of the OTT praise he’s received, first from the judges and then from the media. And anger too over the unique opportunities presented to him, such as the AMA and TfM. For many people who are invested in their own Idols, it must grate at times, wondering how much more successful their guy or girl might have been had he or she not had the same chances Adam has had. And for others, it must be irritating to have Adam compared to a Kelly or Carrie or Daughtry who have proven themselves with documented sales whereas Adam is being placed alongside them based on sheer potential alone.

    Plus, for so many who had to play by the Idol rules, with the crappy Idol stable of songwriters and perceived meddling in song releases and such, it must be doubly vexing to hear him talk about how much freedom he’s been given and how he’s not being puppeted by TPTB (and, clearly, given some of the decisions – album cover and AMA performance – this would seem to be the case).

    I’m an Adam fan and I do understand how all of this attention could get to be too much sometimes. And I understand how it has created a backlash from the fans of other Idols. I think it’s too pat – too easy – to automatically conclude, “oh, they’re just homophobic.” Yes, there’s a lot of homophobia out there directed at Adam, but I think within the Idol world there are other forces at work. Of course, this doesn’t excuse the hatred. Hatred is still hatred regardless of whether it’s rooted in jealousy or some discriminatory motive. I think sometimes people need to look at the guy they’re directing all this anger and loathing towards and ask whether he’s really done anything so terrible as to deserve it. Just my 2 cents.

  385. Carmen Leda,
    Big *hugs” to you.

    Rome wasn’t built in a day. I’ve had some moments very similar to yours. He’ll get there… I really believe it.

    Just listen to “Pick You Up.” Turn it up high and pretend you’re spinning on a hill, breeze blowing, sun shining (like Julie Andrews in The Sound of Music). It’ll make you feel better… I swear! :-)

  386. Meganjoysings: OKAY song one is up guysssss…….Myspace.com/meganjoysings.
    5 minutes ago from web

  387. And for others, it must be irritating to have Adam compared to a Kelly or Carrie or Daughtry who have proven themselves with documented sales whereas Adam is being placed alongside them based on sheer potential alone.

    Well, do you blame the long time fans of Kelly, Carrie, etc for being resentful of Ada being placed in their league when he hasn’t yet done anything outside Idol. All the invitations he has received are nice enough, but he hasn’t done anything with them yet. Cook and Jordin sooner belong in the same leagues as Kelly, Carrie or Daughtry since they have had thier achievements outside the idolsphere.

  388. A lot of people I knew absolutely couldn’t believe where and with whom I spent my weekends and that I really loved what they considered a really inferior, low-class musical niche. They talked about ‘low quality’  of the music, but I know for a fact that a lot of the disco music was *great* on every level!

    So I’ve always believed and believe still that the crux of the matter was that the real problem was that it was too gay and too black. I mean, how dare those gay and black people produce an art form that is wonderful and just plain high-spirited fun! That was never stated, of course, partly because a lot of the people I knew who disdained it were also really ‘liberal.’  But I have always figured that that was a lot more where the discomfort lay than in some artistic judgment about the music being inferior or not high-minded enough or something, which is what was usually said!

    Wonderful points Lucy, I can co-sign on all of that!

    For the person saying that every discussion about Adam is about discrimination, seriously? We’ve talked about him being OTT, sexy, his crazy range, his friends, his musical taste, his pants, what’s in his pants, his hair, this fabulous cd, we’ve talked about discrimination mostly in the context of the AMA fallout. As a matter of fact I don’t think that there is a consensus at all about why radio is not embracing him as they should. So maybe you are just talking about a narrow window of time, cause otherwise you are off base. Like Ggdoorsfan say about we need to start talking plainly…..about alot of things. This is a great conversation, and frankly I don’t want it shut down because some don’t think it relevant. It is. Whether you fall on side or the other.

  389. Adam’s latest Tweet.

    Happy Sunday everyone. It’s a beautiful day in LA

    Call me crazy, but this sounds like a happy man! :)

  390. Remember 12/9 is Barbara Walters 10 most fascinating people- Can’t believe Adam and GaGa are there with Sarah Palin and Glen Beck!

  391. Of course, this doesn’t excuse the hatred. Hatred is still hatred regardless of whether it’s rooted in jealousy or some discriminatory motive. I think sometimes people need to look at the guy they’re directing all this anger and loathing towards and ask whether he’s really done anything so terrible as to deserve it. Just my 2 cents.

    I may be missing things but I read here a lot and post sometimes and I don’t see much hatred. That’s a really strong word. I do see some dislike but let me offer up an alternative possibility to the one you put forward.

    I don’t like Adam as a performer, but I don’t hate him. I’m far from homophobic. I’m not hung up on past idols. I’m not jealous.

    I just think he’s a little bit ridiculous when he performs and have since the first time I saw him. I also think his music is the worst kind of manufactured, prefabricated, non-organic nonsense.

    I find Idol interesting and every year the most interesting part to me is watching the Idols go out into the real world and make their mark. I never post on message boards during the season actually, because that part bores me. I only ever get involved at this stage.

    And what I’ve seen from Adam has not impressed me. Not his music. Not that horse’s ass of a performance on the AMAs and not the way he has handled himself personally.

    All that to say, could Adam’s fans entertain the possibility that some people have no ulterior motive and just think he’s rubbish?

  392. I think the conversation about radio is the fact that there have been articles written that it is difficult in some markets for Artists to get ‘spun’  if they do not fit into the socially accepted box.

    Do you have citations?

  393. They talked about ‘low quality’  of the music, but I know for a fact that a lot of the disco music was *great* on every level!

    So I’ve always believed and believe still that the crux of the matter was that the real problem was that it was too gay and too black. I mean, how dare those gay and black people produce an art form that is wonderful and just plain high-spirited fun!

    Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking when I was a kid and thought Shake Your Groove Thing was idiotic. How to keep the people down and kill their joy.

    Obviously anyone who didn’t like disco was anti-gay. Like this guy. Remember how much we thanked god and danced in a dirty student pub when he sang BURN THE BLOODY DISCO.

  394. LOL, if you follow David Cook and his band on Twitter… well… I won’t copy all the tweets over here but there’s a poll on there for the favorite band member and…

    andyskib
    KylePeek: “If I win, I will join Twitter!”

    thedavidcook
    If Kyle peek wins, I’m quitting Twitter

    And so they go on until we get from Monty…

    montyanderson
    Sad times…oh the politics of it all….win or lose i will continue to twitter, unless i lose to the dog!! (and i love dogs)

    LOL.

  395. sallysimmons

    All that to say, could Adam’s fans entertain the possibility that some people have no ulterior motive and just think he’s rubbish?

    Bravo to your whole post, actually. I like sensible, rational people.

  396. All that to say, could Adam’s fans entertain the possibility that some people have no ulterior motive and just think he’s rubbish?

    sallysimmons,

    Maybe we could, because we all understand that Adam is polarizing and not for everyone’s taste, if so many people’s discussion of their dislike of Adam’s music is peppered with comments about him personally or his ‘gay manner or persona’. It makes Adam’s fans then believe the dislike has little to do with his music and all to do with his ‘person’ or sexuality.

    The discussion is not always about discrimination, but when your hear the disparaging comments about gay people, particularly gay men, so much in the public- young people calling people ‘gay’ as an insult, does make one sensitive to the bias Adam has had to overcome his whole life.

    I particularly relate as I have a special needs son, who is developmentally disabled. I cringe whenever I hear people indiscriminately call people ‘retarded’ in order to insult their intelligence.

    The bias and ignorance is still very prevalent against gay men as it is against those who are developmentally disabled. People use their ‘being’ as a way to insult others.

  397. All that to say, could Adam’s fans entertain the possibility that some people have no ulterior motive and just think he’s rubbish?

    Nope. You’re either jealous or homophobic. Take your pick.

    I was surprised to find out that hating disco made me anti-Adam, by a convoluted logic.

    Apparently I had a grudge against him years before he was born.

    That would explain a lot.

    ETA: In reply to your serious post about your son.

    Then can you see how the fact that so many commenters are accusing any one who doesn’t like the same music as they as being motivated by homophobia–even if the *accused is themselves gay or has loved ones who are*–as painful?

    You’ve got people who were marching for equality or working with the truly ill or losing people to a horrible disease before this singer guy was in diapers being offhandedly tarred with the brush of prejudice –for not liking a crap pop song.

    It’s kinda hilarious except how it ain’t.

  398. Of course this is possible’ ¦no one is saying otherwise. And conversly if Adam sells well this week, hopefully people will admit that he also has people supporting him that aren’t ‘fans’ .

    This conversation wasn’t intended as a tit for tat. If Adam’s sales pattern doesn’t trickle out like other runner ups like Bo Bice, then the facts will speak for themselves to show that Adam is selling to more than just his *fans*.

    By suggesting that you are owed an admission that the facts wouldn’t yet even support shows that you are seeing bias where none exists.

  399. Keep talking about the blog on the blog, and I’ll make it easy for you. PLEASE FOLLOW MY RULES. NO TALKING ABOUT THE BLOG ON THE BLOG

  400. ESW
    11/29/2009 at 8:05 pm

    I’ll head to the library tomorrow and see if I can find them…and yup I’ll see if any have been scanned on the internet. I’m sure that they are of enough importance to be there….gimme a few seconds.

  401. tierbee,

    I’ve gotten caught up on those tweets and it’s been very entertaining. Can you believe Dave threatening to quit twitter if Kyle wins the poll?

    Hee!

  402. Maggie Mae….beautiful post a few pages ago!!!!

    Funny, Adam is too gay or not gay enough, too experienced for Idol but not experienced enough for AMAs, too honest not honest enough,…etc, etc. I really think it’s funny.

    My 20 yr old daughter did not like Adam on Idol. On our 5 hour drive over the holiday, she was “forced” to listen to his CD. She really likes some songs on it and is going to get the CD. Progress :-)

  403. I may be missing things but I read here a lot and post sometimes and I don’t see much hatred. That’s a really strong word. I do see some dislike but let me offer up an alternative possibility to the one you put forward.

    I don’t like Adam as a performer, but I don’t hate him. I’m far from homophobic. I’m not hung up on past idols. I’m not jealous.

    I just think he’s a little bit ridiculous when he performs and have since the first time I saw him. I also think his music is the worst kind of manufactured, prefabricated, non-organic nonsense.

    I find Idol interesting and every year the most interesting part to me is watching the Idols go out into the real world and make their mark. I never post on message boards during the season actually, because that part bored me. I only ever get involved at this stage.

    All that to say, could Adam’s fans entertain the possibility that some people have no ulterior motive and just think he’s rubbish?

    I can. Honestly, I don’t think that most of the people who are talking about hatred are talking about you and the things you express at *all*. (and, yeah, I know that *some* probably are — because there are always fans of any idol who conceive all criticism as hatred, and of course Adam’s fans aren’t any different from that …)

    But the hatred I see mostly referred to is the screeds that you see on some Internet sites that just drip with disgust about Adam and that clearly focus on his gayness, although often in a veiled way. I’ve definitely seen some of that — it *is* out there. And I think that I’ve seen a *bit* of it here, from time to time. But mostly people are talking about the clearly homophobic crap that appears in comments on articles and stuff. That *is* ugly, and it is hate.

    But the fact that that stuff exists certainly doesn’t mean that everybody that doesn’t like Adam, as a person or as an entertainer is some kind of “hater” or homophobe. … I really think the majority of Adam fans I’ve seen posting here realize that.

    I’ll repeat, though, that I’ve heard about *haters” in connection with every Idol finalist i’ve ever seen discussed. So it isn’t just Adam fans who do this.

    And in any case where the idol can come in for bashing under some kind of societal attitude — like issues with homosexuality or, in Danny’s case, for example, with Christians who talk a lot about there faith in public or something — then the hate discussion inevitably is going to come up a little more often. In those cases, fans are aware that there *is* something going on, for at least some people, beyond just disliking the person as an entertainer or disliking their individual character or personality, so the discussion gets bigger than that person, and more intense. That certainly has happened with both of these guys. But I still don’t think that most Adam (or Danny) fans think that nobody has a right to dislike and criticize their guys without being accused of some kind of irrational hatred!

    I agree with you — a variety of artistic judgments are possible about Adam and every other Idol!

  404. erm’ ¦ the irony here is amazing’ ¦ adam’s ama performance has been written about as possibly doing the same thing to him’ ¦ just sayin’, cause those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    Exactly. And Rheinharv, great post.

    I don’t see why all the popular gay and bisexual performers in the past are now being dismissed as not being truly successful or not being really gay or not being really out. Does the success of these artists really need to be diminished for the sake of making Adam’s situation seem unique? In fact, the only unique thing about Adam is the amazing treatment he’s received relative to any other idol contestant (and I know this, becasue his fans keep pointing that out on various boards). I would like Adam to start proving to people that he deserves the hype, like all the other great artists listed below. Any idol contestant who did almost half as well as most of the people on this list would be considered a success. Note that a lot of the artists below started their career when homophobia was a lot worse than it is today. We’ve made some progress since the 80s.

    1.Indigo Girls: When I first heard about them they were out. Can’t argue with their success either. Someone mentioned upthread that they were hot and that men fantasized them. I’m not a guy but I really don’t think that men found them hot. Plus they had more female fans than male fans (mainly because of their genre).Or are only men homophobic?
    2. Elton John; Yeah right…no one knew he was gay. I tried to get tickets to one of his arena concerts three years ago and it was sold out (and the seats were very expensive). Still going strong.
    3. Billie Joe Armstrong: Lead Singer for Greenday. Openly bisexual. Aren’t most of their fans straight guys?
    4. David Bowie: Claimed to be bisexual pretty early in the game.
    5. Melissa Etheridge: Out from the start..I think.
    6. Lindsey Lohan: Openly dated another female. Music not so great IMO but does pretty well with the acting thing. I guess people will argue that men fantasize about her. But she has a lot of female fans too. Or are only men homophobic?
    7. RuPaul: Didn’t last very long but those few songs of his were extremely popular. Supermodel work it girl! I’m sure there were people turned off by him but it certainly didn’t hurt his stint of popularity.
    8. George Michael: I was a huge George Michael fan and I can vouch for the fact that his music was not as good after Faith, which was a masterpiece IMO.
    9. Boy George: Seriously. I was 8 years old when I first heard him and even I knew he was gay.
    10. Freddie Mercury: People still consider him one of the greatest legends and certainly didn’t stop saying that, once they found out he was gay.
    11. That guy from that Boy Band..Lance or something: OK bad example.
    12. The Village People: They had to be mentioned.

    The bottom line is that there are people who will dislike Adam because of who he is, but in the world of pop music there will be more people who like him becasue of who he is. Can’t imagine someone liking Madonna or Lady Gaga and drawing the line at Adam (based solely on sexuality). Similarly, someone who loves Lady G is probably less likely to be interested in Carrie Underwood. Everyone has their own niche in the music world. Every now and then you have artists like Michael Jackson and Prince who break down all barriers but I don’t feel inclined to start screaming racism and homophobia every time an artist doesn’t manage to reach everyone. And to be honest, in the music world, I see the former more than the latter.

  405. Hi MJ and everyone:

    Sorry for posting about the Blog. I didn’t realize I was doing that. I get it. (I think I do anyway.)

  406. Well, do you blame the long time fans of Kelly, Carrie, etc for being resentful of Ada being placed in their league when he hasn’t yet done anything outside Idol.

    I don’t know. Somebody thinks he’s talented enough to be compared with some of the past idols. And he has been performing for a long time.

  407. I’ll head to the library tomorrow and see if I can find them’ ¦and yup I’ll see if any have been scanned on the internet. I’m sure that they are of enough importance to be there’ ¦.gimme a few seconds.

    When you consider that Michael Jackson is one of the most played artists of all time, and that Melissa Etheridge and K.D. Lang haven’t had a hard time getting airplay, I wonder how far back in the archives you’ll to have to look to find a mainstream article that says what you claim.

    So I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

  408. Obviously anyone who didn’t like disco was anti-gay. Like this guy. Remember how much we thanked god and danced in a dirty student pub when he sang BURN THE BLOODY DISCO.

    I don’t mean that everybody who disliked disco was anti-gay and anti-black. There’s no form of music that everybody will like. Everybody has different tastes.

    What I do mean, though, is that from some people I knew I’m quite sure I picked up an ewwwww factor against disco that I didn’t get in their response to other music they didn’t like — like Lawrence Welk and the polka, or the like …. A disdain, a disgust, that seemed *way* out of proportion to me to a response to mere music. The same people could pretty easily say, I prefer rock to folk, without the ‘ewwwww, how low class!” addition.

    So for those folks — Yeah, I think homophobia and some racism *did* have something to do with it.

  409. Reminder:

    UGH!!!!!

    How many times do I have to ask people to follow the rules? How many times do I have to ask people to PLEASE NOT TALK ABOUT THE BLOG ON THE BLOG.

    Here’s the deal. If you’re about to leave? LEAVE! I don’t really want the space in my comments section wasted on your personal deal. Boardacides are LAME.

    You don’t like the subject of the thread? STOP READING. Bitching and complaining about it only antagonizes the peeps who are enjoying the thread. You accomplish nothing. And you PISS ME OFF in the process.

    DON’T respond to posts that YOU KNOW I’M GOING TO DELETE.

    If you have issues with my blog CONTACT ME PERSONALLY. mjsbigblog at gmail dot com.

    I’m very frustrated at the moment–frustrated that I have to keep repeating myself.

  410. I gave Megan’s new song, ‘Feel Love’, a listen. I don’t love it, I don’t hate it’ ¦ I think I need to listen again to form an opinion. It’s got her trademark warble and a nice melody.

    http://www.myspace.com/meganjoysings

    It suits her, I think.

  411. David Archuleta ‘“ Christmas From The Heart will be on Amazon’s Lightning Deals TOMORROW 11am ‘“ 2pm PST for $5.99

    Frogcook, thanks. My daughter would love this and I heard some really nice things about it on this blog. Plus it has one of my favorite Christmas songs on it.

  412. May most of those folk were not OUT at the beginning of their careers. That is all we were saying. There have always been gay people in the music business. From Bowie to Elton. However, Elton came out when his career was on a downturn, so he didn’t have as much to loose because at least he had a track record, and a body of work. Adam doesn’t have that, nor has he made enough money. Therefore being openly gay, and trying to sell himself singing the genre of music few men straight or gay have had much success, is risky.

  413. So for those folks ‘” Yeah, I think homophobia and some racism *did* have something to do with it.

    I came to appreciate disco as I got older, but as a teenager and young woman, I despised disco with every fiber of my being. And yes, I railed against it.

    I believed disco was trite and empty headed. The singer/songwriters, punk and alt/rock music had substance that disco couldn’t touch.

    But it had nothing to do with homophobia or racism. I still loved R&B from the sixties, and the two tone stuff from Britain that boasted mixed-race bands, and I loved Tom Robinson and the Buzzcocks.

    So, yeah, I think people reacted negatively against disco for lots of different reasons–can’t paint that one with a broad brush either.

  414. May most of those folk were not OUT at the beginning of their careers. That is all we were saying. There have always been gay people in the music business. From Bowie to Elton. However, Elton came out when his career was on a downturn, so he didn’t have as much to loose because at least he had a track record, and a body of work. Adam doesn’t have that, nor has he made enough money. Therefore being openly gay, and trying to sell himself singing the genre of music few men straight or gay have had much success, is risky.

    True! And I might also add that Elton was battling with a severe substance abuse problem that ‘“ in his words ‘“ was probably killing him. He HAD to come out to save his own life. The lie he was living became too much and no level of astronomical success could prevent the torment he was living.

    Thank god Adam recognizes that there is no point lying about who is his and has the GUTS to be absolutely himself. His courage has gained the accolades of countless performers who have been in this Catch-22. And the reason why it is so significant is because it is so rare.

  415. erm’ ¦ the irony here is amazing’ ¦ adam’s ama performance has been written about as possibly doing the same thing to him’ ¦ just sayin’, cause those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    GG- That is an interesting thought. I was discussing the idols today with my 18 and 21 year old kids, who are home for the weekend, and they think that what adam did on the AMA’s actually keeps the bad gay stereotypes alive. In fact, if Clay had come out earlier, he might have been a great face of gays. Maybe he is a great face for them anyway. I don’t follow him much, so I don’t really know what people think about him other than what people occasionally say on here.

    None of us voted this year for any idols, but my kids’ theory is that Kris is doing poorly because people weren’t voting for him. They were voting against Adam. That is really sad for Kris if it was true– It didn’t do him any favors.

  416. Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking when I was a kid and thought Shake Your Groove Thing was idiotic. How to keep the people down and kill their joy.

    lovely snark, and i get it, but the fact remains that there are still far too many provincial, prejudiced and intolerant viewpoints held in the minds of the so called ”mainstream” that has marginalized those not fitting into their nice, neat little boxes of conformity, or possessing a eurocentric sensibility that would be more ”patable” to the masses… no one said anyone who didn’t like disco was anti-gay – the common and prevailing sentiment i’ve found in conversations with many folk who express dislike for it – once they get comfortable enough with you to let their guard down – is very much the one expressed here by myself and a few others… too gay, too black, don’t want my kid exposed to that… but the too gay and too black were usually top 5… it’s nice to snark, and poke fun at certain things, but the struggle continues… it’s lambert’s turn at bat to deal with this monster – i wish him luck.

  417. May most of those folk were not OUT at the beginning of their careers. That is all we were saying

    Abbysee: I know that. I don’t think you read my whole post. However, the fact that you said most, means that there are quite a few on that list (of 12..Elton John isn’t the only one on that list) that you can’t argue with. Plus as I mentioned earlier, those were the 80s. I believe that this country has progressed a lot in their treatment of gays in the past 20 years. Or maybe the 3 different states I’ve lived in have just been more open-minded…

    ETA: Adam did not come out officially at the beginning of his career. He came out after idol after he had gained a million or so fans who are now buying his album. A lot of people suspected he was gay but the same argument can be used for Elton John, Village People, Boy George, etc etc. My mother had no clue Adam was gay so it probably was a surprise to a lot of people of her generation who do not follow idol on the internet. That beginning of career argument holds no water when you are coming from the biggest watched realilty show in the country. Still waiting for someone to explain why all the people on my list should somehow be dismissed. I suspect that if you asked them individually they might beg to differ.

  418. Frogcook, thanks. My daughter would love this and I heard some really nice things about it on this blog. Plus it has one of my favorite Christmas songs on it.

    no prob. I figures people might wanna know it will be on sale for that time frame :)

  419. frogcooke:http://is.gd/57gRG ‘“ David Archuleta ‘“ Christmas From The Heart will be on Amazon’s Lightning Deals TOMORROW 11am ‘“ 2pm PST for $5.99

    This is great news, thanks frogcooke! Highly recommended, don’t forget to use MJ’s amazon link.

    I do not like Christmas music much but even I can appreciate the quality of this album. I bought this CD to support Archie. It is a fine album that should have broad appeal. My favorites: Riu Riu Chiu and Pat-a-pan. His O Holy Night is excellent too, of course.

    DAVID ARCHULETA FTHW (for the holiday win)! DA=LOVE. :)

  420. reinharv…. Have to agree with much of what you said. From the get-go, I found Adam to be a poser who was “just doing rock” to fill a niche on the show. Whatever. He will do whatever it takes to be a celebrity as far as I can see. I just don’t respect him.

  421. GG- That is an interesting thought. I was discussing the idols today with my 18 and 21 year old kids, and they think that what adam did on the AMA’s actually keeps the bad gay stereotypes alive. In fact, if Clay had come out earlier, he might have been a great face of gays. Maybe he is a great face for them anyway. I don’t follow him much, so I don’t really know what people think about him other than what people occasionally say on here.

    Now I find this intriguing. If a self hating gay, who sang bland songs, and was pretty much asexual is could have been a great role model to gays, and an out and proud gay man, who embraces his sexuality is a bad role model, then the gay community has a serious problem on it’s hands, even more so than I thought. And if you are indeed correct that most people voted against the idol image of Adam instead of voting for Kris because they liked him, then I am sick to my stomach. Really I am.

  422. Yeesh, the last couple days have been really slow news days, haven’t they?

    Anyway, here’s link to Megan’s new music. It’s ok…she sounds good, but I’m trying to figure out where it would fit in the current music scene, especially in terms of radio play. It’s got a little Adele thing going on, but still feels a little too supper clubbish to me, y’know? But it’s not bad.

    http://www.myspace.com/meganjoysings

  423. Reminder:

    And…I’m still deleting posts. The discussion here is not going to degenerate into an argument about the blog.

  424. I was surprised to find out that hating disco made me anti-Adam, by a convoluted logic.

    I *never* said or implied this!

    I was writing about disco *in* *the* *70s* and saying that I felt that *some* people that I knew *in* *the* *70s* disdained disco *at* *that* *time* at least in part because it was so tied up with gay and black people. I never once said that somebody who thinks disco is inferior music is, in the 2000s, a homophobe or racist of any kind. I was talking about historical events that involved gay entertainers, period, and never implied anything.

    At that time, I lived here in DC where I live now and I worked in suburban Maryland, where more than one person I knew asked me on more than one occasion how i could stand to “live in niggertown”? Similarly, disparaging comments about “faggots” were fairly routine. … The fact that a lot of these same people made “ewww” faces when they learned that I went to discos on the weekends — and the big discos in DC at the time were very much a part of the gay community and located in a part of town whose residents were mostly black — kind of made that connection for me.

    Not only have I explicitly talked about a historical era, but I’ve also said a couple of times that I think we’re in a quite different, and better, era now where homophobia is concerned.

  425. If Adam doesn’t succeed on radio I will sum it up to not reaching the masses, not because of talent. Doesn’t mean I will stop being a fan. Same as fans of other Idols. Kris fans, Danny fans, Allison fans, will always be fans I imagine. If anything I want them all to successful. I don’t wish anyone bad will just because I am not a fan. I think everyone has a tendancy to get defensive but I don’t know if I agree with it being hatred. Nor do I need to put non-Adam fans into a “box”. Music is very subjective. I can’t stand SuBo singing but, obviously, alot of people like her. Different strokes for different folks.

    Noticed a few stores featured Allison’s CD in their flyers for next week. I think that is bound to help her with sales.

  426. I liked this post. Thanks.

    sallysimmons,

    Maybe we could, because we all understand that Adam is polarizing and not for everyone’s taste, if so many people’s discussion of their dislike of Adam’s music is peppered with comments about him personally or his ‘gay manner or persona’. It makes Adam’s fans then believe the dislike has little to do with his music and all to do with his ‘person’ or sexuality.

    The discussion is not always about discrimination, but when your hear the disparaging comments about gay people, particularly gay men, so much in the public- young people calling people ‘gay’ as an insult, does make one sensitive to the bias Adam has had to overcome his whole life.

    I particularly relate as I have a special needs son, who is developmentally disabled. I cringe whenever I hear people indiscriminately call people ‘retarded’ in order to insult their intelligence.

    The bias and ignorance is still very prevalent against gay men as it is against those who are developmentally disabled. People use their ‘being’ as a way to insult others.

  427. So, yeah, I think people reacted negatively against disco for lots of different reasons’“can’t paint that one with a broad brush either.

    Totally agree!

  428. His O Holy Night is excellent too, of course.

    That’s the one I love and it sounds great per the link I was given.

  429. Now I find this intriguing. If a self hating gay, who sang bland songs, and was pretty much asexual is could have been a great role model to gays, and an out and proud gay man, who embraces his sexuality is a bad role model, then the gay community has a serious problem on it’s hands, even more so than I thought. And if you are indeed correct that most people voted against the idol image of Adam instead of voting for Kris because they liked him, then I am sick to my stomach. Really I am.

    abysee- Maybe I mispoke about Clay because, as I said above, I know very little about him. From what people have said, he seemed like a nice “normal” guy– meaning he is not doing bondage like things on national tv. That is all I meant.

    Also, from what I have heard, many people loved him and thought his music was interesting, not bland.

    The Kris thing was just my kids’ theory because they didn’t think Kris was that great of a musician.

  430. A disdain, a disgust, that seemed *way* out of proportion to me to a response to mere music. The same people could pretty easily say, I prefer rock to folk, without the ‘ewwwww, how low class!’  addition.

    Well, Morrissey whose song I linked to–possibly the most famous anti-disco lyric there is–was a) a gay, working class man who b) really *hated* disco because “because the music that they constantly play/says nothing to me about my life.”

    He didn’t hate it because it was low class (having a finger in your eye pride in how own lowclassness) but because disco was ALSO a heavily marketed, heavily hyped mass product that he was sick of.

    It’s origins may have been liberating–sounds like you went to some great clubs back then–but by the time it was pouring out of every radio and every soundtrack, it certainly didn’t feel like that to many of us.

    How this all ties back to the Idol discussion: Adam Lambert is also putting out a product with massive entertainment company backing. It may succeed, it may fail. Lots of people who won’t like it, won’t like it because it doesn’t speak to them. Not because they hold a psychosexual political grudge against the singer, but because it’s a mass market product whose ubiquity is grating.

    And yeah, they get to talk about it, too. Because the media is being saturated with the guy. It’s a two way street.

    ETA: Lucy: I too am speaking about history, not now. Being old, I was there in the mid80s–in fact as a student I heard The Smiths play their anti-disco anthem in a dirty bar in North London. To a very mixed crowd, in a time and place where it was much more dangerous to be gay then it is now. Again, just pointing out the complexity of these things, and how silly (IMHO!) it is to say “all who don’t like song x believe y, or are like (evil thing) z.”

  431. I’d like to know if Adam was such a poser on Idol, then why did he have a rock band pre idol? He has always said he was influenced by certain bands and you can see it even in his pop music.

    Oh and I am still waiting for that youtube of Clay rocking out WLL or maybe some disco PTFM anyone? I need a good laugh!

  432. I don’t think Adam fans, or the vast majority of them who are the sane ones, think that not liking Adam, either his music and/or personality is strictly because someone is homophobic or jellus. The discussion about homophobia in general and for Adam in particular was about the industry and whether the general homophobia in society and yes, the homophobia that still exists in the entertainment industry (otherwise everyone gay in Hollywood would be out, and that’s certainly not the case) would have/has had a negative effect on Adam’s ability to get on radio. That’s it. Not the generalized brush strokes that everywho who doesn’t like Adam is a gree-eyed with jellusy homophobe. So the sweeping generalization was the other way around, isn’t it.

    But that’s not to deny that people do make tons of remarks, not here of course, but when talking about Adam that reference and negatively, his homosexuality.

    As to Adam’s AMA performance hurting the gays, hmmmm. Well I hated it and wasn’t fond of his defensiveness afterwards and how he didn’t get that the offense/taste level didn’t have really to do with his gay, per se, but with the overall level of it. But then I do think the discussion opened since then, especially with CBS deciding to blur out the kiss of Adam with Tommy vs. two straight women, might actually be useful and important one. Plus Adam’s subsequent performances on Early Show, Lettermen, and I have no doubt Ellen, show he’s more than just that AMA person. And the Barbara Walters thing will show a more faceted person and that’s what it’s about, being seen as just the multi-faceted people we all are.

  433. I have been trying to refrain from further posting about Adam as do feel that this has become his fan website and being that for those fans they are on a high right now with the release of his CD and happy for them to be celebrating. However, do have to say that I do not think that the majority of not quite so positive comments being written here have anything to do with his sexual orientation.

  434. And yeah, they get to talk about it, too. Because the media is being saturated with the guy. It’s a two way street.

    Agreed. But then they shouldn’t complain about that is all people want to talk about either.

  435. Well, Morrissey whose song I linked to’“possibly the most famous anti-disco lyric there is’“was a) a gay, working class man who b) really *hated* disco because ‘because the music that they constantly play/says nothing to me about my life.’ 

    Wait, are you saying that Morrissey is openly gay? Since when? He spent his most famous years being asexual and if he’s out now, it’s strictly by osmosis.

  436. I’d like to know if Adam was such a poser on Idol, then why did he have a rock band pre idol? He has always said he was influenced by certain bands and you can see it even in his pop music.

    Yep, I think Adam was doing his rocker thing way before Idol.

  437. So ‘gays’  is a single, one-dimensional representation of a complex, multi-gender/racial/national/generational/political/cultural/class group now?

    Please read my second Clay post. I feel that what I said has been totally misunderstood.

  438. He has alienated people left and right and I don’t think I am the only one that is tired of the OTT publicity. And IMO he needs to learn to keep his mouth shut and quit whining. He blew a great chance at the AMA’s and needs to admit that fact instead of trying to throw the focus on something else.

    I disagree with this post.

  439. Anyway, here’s link to Megan’s new music. It’s ok’ ¦she sounds good, but I’m trying to figure out where it would fit in the current music scene, especially in terms of radio play. It’s got a little Adele thing going on, but still feels a little too supper clubbish to me, y’know? But it’s not bad.

    I went and listened to it too girlygirl. Thanks for the link. It’s a pretty rough cut, but I agree, it’s not too bad.

    When I clicked the link, I was again struck by how absolutely stunning that woman is. Damn. If I had that face, my myspace would be nothing but huge pictures of me too LOL.

  440. Also, from what I have heard, many people loved him and thought his music was interesting, not bland.

    The Kris thing was just my kids’ theory because they didn’t think Kris was that great of a musician.

    LK09 if this is what you knew about Clay then maybe you weren’t too into him that season. Even many of his fans supported him and not the music because they liked his voice and his boy next door personna, complained about how ‘vanilla’ his music was. Many were hoping the second cd of original music would be grittier and even more soft rockier. I mean idol cds are bland, and Clay’s are the blandest.

    As for Kris, I would think that is an opportunity for Kris fans to speak their minds. I certainly don’t feel that way, and I was not a fan.

  441. Jason Castro news:
    From victoria’s secret PINK site:

    “Remember the dreadlocked heartthrob from season 7 of American Idol? Well he’s back on the scene with a sure-to-be soulful debut album. And if his heart-wrenching rendition of Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” on America’s greatest singing competition is any indication of his talent, then his latest release is sure to be a tour de force. Welcome back, Jason!”

    http://www.vspink.com/love_rock.jsp

  442. I’d like to know if Adam was such a poser on Idol, then why did he have a rock band pre idol? He has always said he was influenced by certain bands and you can see it even in his pop music.

    Yep, I think Adam was doing his rocker thing way before Idol.

    He must have said it 50 times or more that since he is a big lover of many genres, he also likes to sing many genres. Not many artists can do that, and if Adam is capable of doing it, why not?

  443. cannot edit my last comment… that should be ”palatable”…..

  444. Yep, I think Adam was doing his rocker thing way before Idol.

    Yes, I thought so too. I guess that sorta refutes the poser thingee, lol.

  445. LK09 if this is what you knew about Clay then maybe you weren’t too into him that season. Even many of his fans supported him and not the music because they liked his voice and his boy next door personna, complained about how ‘vanilla’ his music was. Many were hoping the second cd of original music would be grittier and even more soft rockier. I mean idol cds are bland, and Clay’s are the blandest.

    Abysee- I didn’t watch idol until season 7, so the only thing I know is what people have said about him on here. I didn’t realize people thought his music was bland. I only knew he had tons of fans who were passionate about him.

    My original comment about Clay was that according to what I knew of him as being “the boy next door” type, he might have been a good face for gays. Of course there can be many varieties of good faces for a group of people (disclaimer).

    Edit-

    Also, saying people voted against Adam doesn’t mean they are doing it just because he is gay, although some probably did, but some may have just not liked Adam and the way he was totally pimped. I think some of that happened in season 7, although David Cook was a good musician and either one could easily have been the winner.

  446. cannot edit my last comment

    Heh, don’t worry about it, I’ve been butchering grammar, punctuation, and spelling all damn day, lol.

    “Abysee- I didn’t watch idol until season 7, so the only thing I know is what people have said about him on here. I didn’t realize people thought his music was bland. I only knew he had tons of fans who were passionate about him.”

    It’s okay, I was more stunned about the not voting for Kris thing than the Aiken thing. Clay still does have passionate fans. They would love for him to put out some good music to put him back on the map though.

  447. Not an AI fan but I visit this site primarily to look for news about Adam. I especially enjoy getting updates of how his singles are doing, what shows he is going to be on, what events he has attended or will be attending etc. Enjoy looking at pictures, both the “awwww” ones and the “ewwww” ones. News about other Idols, I skip them. Hey, cannot waste precious time so much on other people Im not interested at. :)

    I think both Adam and non Adam fans have valid points on why they like / dislike the guy. Of course, being an Adam fan I could understand why we love him DESPITE all his weaknesses but I also dont discount the feelings of the non Adam fans who dislike him BECAUSE of his weaknesses.

    As of the moment, I’m just enjoying the thrill of being a fan. I dont know how long it would last. Maybe, a few years from now I would be laughing at how silly I was for wasting so much time on the internet / blogs over a 27 year old super talented OTT gay guy who I wouldnt even have the chance of meeting ever. (except, of course if his international tour will include the Philippines, I would definitely be in the front row)

  448. but my kids’ theory is that Kris is doing poorly because people weren’t voting for him. They were voting against Adam.

    My family, many of my friends and I will always believe that this is what happened that night.

  449. Kirsten, Q3 or anyone else who’s on here now who might have a clue about this — how long do you think Jive will stick with FIBOU until they decide to pick another song to push as a single? Because it is seriously tanking right now, and I don’t know if Allison’s album release and subsequent tv appearances are going to help a lot. I mean Adam’s album release and tv stuff hasn’t resulted in a big increase in media play for either FYE or WWFM (although it looks hopeful that WWFM may start to get more spins). I was on mediabase just now, and in the past 7 days FIBOU has received a whopping 127 spins (14 so far today).

    I know Jive screwed up the release, but the fact is that FIBOU went for adds several weeks ago but hardly anyone picked it up — and of those who did add it, only about 3 stations are playing it much at all. I figure they will stick with it for awhile after the album drops, but how long until they give up and pick another song to try and push — 2 more weeks? Or, because of the Christmas “freeze” will they wait until after New Year’s?

    (on the flip side of this coin, LLWD has gotten more than 3000 spins over the past 7 days)

  450. Wasn’t Adam only sporadically doing his rocker thing prior to Idol? Did Citizen Vein even still exist as a band when he auditioned? I thought that was like a side gig and he was focused mainly on his theatre work

  451. but my kids’ theory is that Kris is doing poorly because people weren’t voting for him. They were voting against Adam.

    I think there is something to that theory.

    how long do you think Jive will stick with FIBOU until they decide to pick another song to push as a single?

    I don’t even think FIBOU should have been the first single after listening to Allison’s album. Its the worse song on there to me.

  452. Kirsten, Q3 or anyone else who’s on here now who might have a clue about this ‘” how long do you think Jive will stick with FIBOU until they decide to pick another song to push as a single? Because it is seriously tanking right now, and I don’t know if Allison’s album release and subsequent tv appearances are going to help a lot. I mean Adam’s album release and tv stuff hasn’t resulted in a big increase in media play for either FYE or WWFM (although it looks hopeful that WWFM may start to get more spins). I was on mediabase just now, and in the past 7 days FIBOU has received a whopping 127 spins (14 so far today).

    I know Jive screwed up the release, but the fact is that FIBOU went for adds several weeks ago but hardly anyone picked it up ‘” and of those who did add it, only about 3 stations are playing it much at all. I figure they will stick with it for awhile after the album drops, but how long until they give up and pick another song to try and push ‘” 2 more weeks? Or, because of the Christmas ‘freeze’  will they wait until after New Year’s?

    (on the flip side of this coin, LLWD has gotten more than 3000 spins over the past 7 days)

    And this is what is so interesting about all the releases this year. All 3 were very different and in terms of radio play Kris seems to be doing the best. It really makes me question Allison’s release since she’s with the same label, but I guess she has different PRs? It will be interesting to see how long they stick by FIBOU, but if they were goin to do something similar to what happened with FYE wouldn’t the change have happened now?

  453. What an interesting marketing idea for Jason! I’ll be interested to see how well it works. Nice photo they picked, too.

    As for Kris, personally, I voted for him because I liked him best. I like the singer songwriter types. Jason was my fav last year.

  454. edit: DIAL BACK THE DEFENSIVENESS. This is the third post I’ve edited or deleted. You are going in moderation

  455. Oh those lucky lucky people seeing his last shows (of this tour) or his New Year’s eve shows.

    ~waves hands furiously~ Lucky person checking in. Mini recap, for anyone who cares….The Hard Rock show was scrumtrulescent. Seriously, that’s the only word. I mean, yeah, no Anodyne or ADAM for me, but damn, how many other concert stops can say that they got a brief appearance by Cookie Sunnyside? Chicka bow bow. Funny Dave was in full effect. And the music was off the chain, too. IDIFY 2.0 is so much more impressive live than on the tubey, btw. I think it was my favorite at this show. (Honest was my fave at the other concert I attended.) The jam session at the end is ten shades of awesome, and in person it’s super singalongy. Oh, and when talking about his appreciation for the amazing response to DCTR and the tour, he said has a lot of thank yous to write, enough that he’ll have to make at least three more records. At which point I finally squeed outwardly, loudly. Cuz, new music! The tour may be ending, sads, but new music is a comin. Leave it to Dave to put it into perspective. (Also, the boys were lookin damn fine. And Dave wore the red boots just for me, I’m sure. Which, of course, is tertiary at best. ;) )

  456. How this all ties back to the Idol discussion: Adam Lambert is also putting out a product with massive entertainment company backing. It may succeed, it may fail. Lots of people who won’t like it, won’t like it because it doesn’t speak to them. Not because they hold a psychosexual political grudge against the singer, but because it’s a mass market product whose ubiquity is grating.

    I totally agree with this. …. But I *never* connected Adam to what I was saying about the racism and homophobia that I’m pretty sure i noticed back in the 70s.

    I think this is a very very different time, and the only thing Adam has in common with disco is that, as you say, he’s producing mainstream, corporate, homogenized pop. And, as you say, there are a lot of different ways to perceive that pop.

    While I’m sure that some people *do* dislike Adam’s pop at least in part because he’s a very out gay guy and, if he made the most alt of alt music instead of corporatized pop, would then dislike his alt music as much as they now dislike his pop. I also know that plenty of people dislike Adam’s music for plenty of other, artistic and other reasons. I don’t think I’ve ever said otherwise.

    I also know all about Morrissey and what he said about disco, and I’ve not only been a disco girl in DC but a big fan of the punk and post-punk bands who’ve come out of this area, too, and I think I probably loved the New York Dolls almost as much as he did. In fact, my main sensibility is way more in the Morrissey vein than in the disco vein. …. But he’s a lot younger than I am, and by the time he was writing about disco and what a depleted, corporate lying piece of crap it was, it probably *was* a tired genre that had worn out much of the life and inspiration it had earlier, in some times and places.

    I was lucky enough to be in one of those times and places, and even though most of my heart belongs to alt stuff all the way, I know what I saw and heard and felt in the clubs! And I also know that at least some people at that time disdained the music because it lived most vibrantly in music created by the gay and the black communities and in clubs where races and genders mingled in a lot of ways that made some other people I knew *quite* uncomfortable! I would say that that was a moment in time that passed quite quickly, however.

    I don’t know what it has to do with Adam, except that he’s a gay guy. But times have changed, and he’s starting out a mainstream career as an openly gay guy trying to attract an audience of all kinds of people from a very corporate music platform. And we don’t know how that’s going to work out.

  457. I thought that was like a side gig and he was focused mainly on his theatre work

    My point was that is was a Rock band, and not a pop band, so therefore he had a history of wanting to sing, and actually singing rock music, so therefore the idea of him just doing rock on idol for the audience to get attention was incorrect. Even though that in and of itself still wouldn’t make one a poser.

  458. The problem with that theory is that Kris really isn’t doing that poorly. Certainly not on the radio or Billboard charts. His album sales are low, yes, but his single has continued to pick up momentum in terms of moving up the radio airplay and Billboard charts and his music video was #9 on VH1’s Top 20 countdown this weekend. He is in the Top 50 on 5 separate Billboard charts. So it’s really not like he’s tanking here — people are focused too much on the album sales rather than looking at the entire picture.

  459. I think there is something to that theory although many don’t want to admit there may be some truth to it.

    Well, the thing is, it’s a pretty unprovable theory. Even if everyone votes 100 times, that’s still a million voters. None of us know who those million AI voters are, so it’s not like we can take a poll or anything.

    People can believe whatever they want, I guess. But there’s no evidence, other than internet theories, that would indicate this is true.

  460. I just went back and reread my posts of today because I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t guilty of insinuation towards any idividual. And the only person I called out specifically as being homophobic was my own step-daughter. At all other times my posts were generalized about the struggle many gays still have in this country.

    My assumption is that unless someone here tells me otherwise they are accepting of all races, ethnicity groups, cultures, and sexual orientation. And that everyone here, like me, has the right to dislike or like any of the Idols we discuss for their own reasons….and for many it is as simple as they do not like their voice, or their style, or their genre.

    I would just like to praise the Idol I like for the reasons I like him. And I would like the opportunity to defend him when I feel he isn’t being given a fair shot. No one needs to accept that defense…but I’d at least like to present it.

    I can’t be totally balanced in my thinking…I will always like someone better than someone else. And many times I really like an Idol but find aspects of their career to be totally weird to me…and I’d also like to express that. I am sure it won’t change the Idols career path, but I don’t mind eating crow if the idol knows best, and I like to say “I told you so” if the idol fucks up.

  461. My original comment about Clay was that according to what I knew of him as being ‘the boy next door’  type, he might have been a good face for gays. Of course there can be many varieties of good faces for a group of people (disclaimer).

    Thanks for putting in that disclaimer, because it’s hard to imagine any one person being a “good face for gays.” I liked Clay well enough while he was on Idol, and forgot about him promptly afterwards.

    I’m sure no one would ever want to “represent” for the minority group to which they belong. Nor would a diverse group of people ever agree to one “face” that represents them. And quite frankly, the idea that a “boy next door” type would help make gay people more palatable to the American public just makes me sad. Sterile, harmless, and asexual, or else it’s threatening…? Ugh.

  462. My family, many of my friends and I will always believe that this is what happened that night.

    Of the two that were left, I preferred Kris. I voted for Kris. So, I guess that means I voted against Adam. I mean, that’s the logic. It’s all about your next preferred choice. After Allison left, Kris was my preferred choice. Just like in the presidential election. I preferred Hillary, but once she was no longer in the race — and I couldn’t have my first choice — I transferred my vote to Obama.

    I actually don’t know what I would’ve done if it had been Allison vs. Kris, because he put in some wonderful performances towards the end and I especially loved Heartless.

  463. Truthiness:

    Is Morrissey gay?

    There of course you get into an interesting discussion. I like the quote from his fan site

    Q: Is Morrissey gay?

    “Dunno. Morrissey has contradicted himself so many times on the subject of his sexuality that it’s hard to tell. Although he has always made it clear he doesn’t consider himself a spokesman for the gay population. His use of “gay icons” in the Smiths’ record sleeves led many gay activists to denounce him. For the last word, we must turn to the wise words of the man himself : “I refuse to recognize the terms hetero-, bi-, and homo-sexual. Everybody has exactly the same sexual needs. People are just sexual, the prefix is immaterial.”

    Sound familiar?

    At the very least, I think he’s an extremely valid counterweight to arguments that you can deduce a person’s politics & views on class, race and gender from whether or not you like disco, rock or For Your Entertainment. For all I know the dude loves Adam Lambert.

    I will fight to the last for Marriage Equality. And maybe Rufus Wainwright. But I still effin hate disco.

    And For Your Entertainment is not my cuppa tea. I like tea.

  464. I didn’t realize people thought his music was bland. I only knew he had tons of fans who were passionate about him.

    Yeah, Clay was the blandest of the bland and I don’t think he ever got any pop radio play, much less anything rock. And I did think he had a really good voice and I for one wished he would have done something useful with it. I always thought it was a total waste of a good voice and fanbase.

    but my kids’ theory is that Kris is doing poorly because people weren’t voting for him. They were voting against Adam.

    Some were, I know some of them, but I feel that most people voted for Kris because they liked him and thought he was the most talented guy who deserved to win. And as someone who thought Kris was talented and deserved to win, I can understand that. I don’t think he deserved to win over Adam, but that doesn’t take away that that Kris is talented enough to deserve winning. But I don’t want to get too much farther into that, because rehashing the old season isn’t something to get into.

    So new stuff, Allison’s spins are distressing and yeah, her rollout has been for crap. Not that I think any of the S8 roll-outs have been that good this year. I like FIBOU, but there are others on the album that others like more, so probably better choices. As long as they don’t try and release Beat Me Up as a single. Oy.

  465. Again, just pointing out the complexity of these things, and how silly (IMHO!) it is to say ‘all who don’t like song x believe y, or are like (evil thing) z.’ 

    I completely agree with you …. And I may have accidentally said that — but I would *never* *ever* deliberately consciously say that *all* the people who don’t like x, y, or z *are* q, r, or s. ….!

  466. I think in the Idol world it’s spelled jellus not jealous. And h8ter used to be used to get around hater (word often banned on Idol sites because of overuse.)

    People who don’t like your favorite are always jellus h8ters.
    Other traditions: 1)forcing people to listen to your favorite until they like it (or at least pretend to) and 2)rearranging the shelves at Walmart.

    Nice to see nothing has changed especially around holiday time (sob).

  467. As long as they don’t try and release Beat Me Up as a single. Oy.

    Its a shame Beat Me Up doesn’t have a different message because to me its one of the best songs on the album. I think it has the best hook too.

  468. Adam isn’t trying to be the representative of that mythical monolithic community called “the gays” – not only is that not possible, but he has, in fact, declined the position. And has been criticized for that, too, because anything he does gets both high praise and harsh criticism.

    But. He’s been honest about who and what he was. He’s unfailingly polite and gracious. He’s intelligent and professional. He’s kind and charitable. And, yes, he is very talented. Talent and intelligence are both inborn and cultivated and the rest are the product of education and upbringing. And is there anyone here who would not want their children to grow up to be polite, professional and honest? I know MY manners have improved in the last few months. More over, he takes responsibility for everything in his life – note that he talks about his fall where J. Lo claims it was on purpose. He owns what he does, good or bad. This is a good trait. I think Adam is a credit to his parents and teachers, and that anyone would want a child with those attributes.

    He’s not perfect. He has extreme taste in fashion and skewed view of humor and he has a tendency to go over the top. He also seems very impulsive. And he’s made “no regrets” and “It’s not that deep” mantras that not everyone agrees with. But none of these things are bad and all of them are superficial.

    He says that S&M is more of a fashion thing for him. But even if it weren’t – even if Adam were the Dom he was pretending to be – so? S&M is not evil. It’s a kink – one done with consenting adults who know what they want out of it. And that’s not a thing that should qualify or disqualify a role model. How one behaves in public? That’s a qualification.

    Adam claims he only wants to be a role mode for those kids (like me and, I suspect, more than one other person reading this) who are different in school to show they will be fine. I think that’s enough for one person.

  469. I completely agree with you ‘ ¦. And I may have accidentally said that ‘” but I would *never* *ever* deliberately consciously say that *all* the people who don’t like x, y, or z *are* q, r, or s. ‘ ¦.!

    If you guys start doing Algebra, I’m really going to have to call it a night!

  470. Well, Morrissey whose song I linked to’“possibly the most famous anti-disco lyric there is’“was a) a gay, working class man who b) really *hated* disco because ‘because the music that they constantly play/says nothing to me about my life.’ 

    Wait, are you saying that Morrissey is openly gay? Since when? He spent his most famous years being asexual and if he’s out now, it’s strictly by osmosis.

    Well, to be fair, this may be one of the weeks where he says that he is. Or says that sex exists, at least. Or something.

  471. Mamadeb

    I love posters like you who say the things I think but I have no idea how to express. Thank you!

  472. Radio play is a curious thing to me. Both Cook and Archuleta got great radio play for a while and then not much at all. I heard people say that top 40 radio had changed a lot in a short time. You would think the studios with all these stars would know the formula for getting a top 40 hit, but it seems they don’t.

  473. Ugh…my love for Adam Lambert is IDK…having to sit through some of this dreck they call pop music just to hear him do a telephoned, pre-tape interview is beyond fandom…sorry if this is OT, but if I have to hear that horrible Tik-Tok song again, I might have to throw my puter out the window!!

  474. Sound familiar?

    Not really because while Morrissey might have used “gay icons,” he self identified as asexual. In his music, in interviews and whatever and he was quite consistent about his asexuality for many years. If in later years he wanted to muddy the waters, fine. Like I said, if he’s out now it’s strictly by osmosis. And no, it’s not that he had to be an open book that someone wasn’t reading, but that he did go on record and assert his asexuality many times. In his art and other places.

    While it’s not a valid research tool, it’s quote in this are valid ” Throughout much of his career, he maintained in interviews that he was asexual and celibate. Johnny Marr stated in a 1984 interview that “Morrissey doesn’t participate in sex at the moment and hasn’t done so for a while, he’s had a lot of girlfriends in the past and quite a few men friends”.[101] In 1986, Morrissey claimed that he was “dramatically, supernaturally, non-sexual.” In a 1994 interview, he claimed that “sex is actually never in my life”, and as such, he argued that “I have no sexuality.” In 1995, he claimed “I’d like to have a sex life, if possible.”[98] In a 1997 interview, he revealed he had been in a relationship with someone for two years but that it had ended and the person in question had just stopped loving him. He did not reveal the gender of his partner or whether it was a sexual relationship. However, he did admit to caring deeply and he stated that he had hoped that they had shared similar feelings.[102] In a 2006 NME interview, he stated that he was no longer celibate, but he did not give any additional details. A 2006 article in UK paper The Independent stated that the singer “…has even hinted at a late-blooming sex life.”[79] Some have speculated that the lyrics to Morrissey’s 2006 song “You Have Killed Me” even gives reference to a sexual encounter he had.[103]” from the Wiki Morrissey page Source

    So yes, all of Morrissey’s talk about refusing to be boxed into a sexuality isn’t actually too familiar, except to me as a Morrissey and Smiths fan.

  475. ahhh sunchick. I knew there must have been a reason Dave started wearing those red boots. ;)

    Cookie Sunnyside is lurve. :)

  476. Radio play is a curious thing to me. Both Cook and Archuleta got great radio play for a while and then not much at all. I heard people say that top 40 radio had changed a lot in a short time. You would think the studios with all these stars would know the formula for getting a top 40 hit, but it seems they don’t.

    I think it’s just not an exact science. Tastes change quickly, and sometimes timing is everything. If there was a true formula to success, everyone signed to a major label would get a top 40 hit. Obviously, there’s some luck involved too.

  477. Of the two that were left, I preferred Kris. I voted for Kris. So, I guess that means I voted against Adam.

    I do believe YOU voted for Kris because you liked him better. I never said that EVERYONE who voted for Kris did so because they were casting a vote against Adam.

  478. I think in the Idol world it’s spelled jellus not jealous. And h8ter used to be used to get around hater (word often banned on Idol sites because of overuse.)

    People who don’t like your favorite are always jellus h
    8ters.
    Other traditions: 1)forcing people to listen to your favorite until they like it (or at least pretend to) and 2)rearranging the shelves at Walmart.

    Nice to see nothing has changed especially around holiday time (sob).

    Actually, it was Best Buy where I rearranged the shelf, lol. …

    And I’ve never done that before, after watchng for eight seasons. I didn’t even do it for Elliott — and heaven knows he needed the help, and he is my all-time greatest favorite! (Sorry, Elliott!)

    Seriously, I had to go crawling through a bunch of albums looking for Kris’s and came close to giving up before I found it. Yet there on the endcaps were, I swear, every single other person whose album has been released inthe past couple of weeks! So I took a handful of Kris albums and stuck them in an empty bin there ….

    I guess that’s the power of Idol. After eight seasons, it’s finally driven me to this. And I didn’t even do it for my *favorite*! Idol is a powerful, powerful force.

  479. Adam is on OHP right now. Just talked to him briefly, now are playing WWFM. There will be more of the interview…

  480. So yes, all of Morrissey’s talk about refusing to be boxed into a sexuality isn’t actually too familiar, except to me as a Morrissey and Smiths fan.

    Actually, I used to think of Morrissey when Clay would make one of his pronouncements about asexuality and such. …. And then the combination — Clay and Morrissey — would *really* make me laugh.

  481. Is OHP a nationally syndicated radio show? Sorry, I almost never listen to the radio on Sunday nights. So, I have no idea what OHP is LOL.

  482. Adam interview is coming on OHP NEXT’ ¦after all the commercials of course

    Thank you for the link.

  483. lashes-That’s why I and I’m sure many others hate to listen to OHP. It gets absolutely dreadful at times. Oh the things us fans have to endure for our faves. LOL

  484. Actually, I used to think of Morrissey when Clay would make one of his pronouncements about asexuality and such. ‘ ¦. And then the combination ‘” Clay and Morrissey ‘” would *really* make me laugh.

    Especially if we could see Morrissey and Clay do PTFMWB. Maybe a duet of it.

    I’d pay a dollar to see that.

  485. Looks like LLWD will end the week at #33 on the Mediabase top 40 chart – up 5 spots (and 238 spins) from last week. It’ll hold at #19 on the HAC chart, up 180 spins and closing the gap on the next chunk of songs.

  486. I actually don’t know what I would’ve done if it had been Allison vs. Kris, because he put in some wonderful performances towards the end and I especially loved Heartless.

    And I lived in a household where if Allison and Kris were the last 2 we would have cancelled each other out. I was a Kris supporter from Top 11, my husband was all about Allison from Top 10. We both had the others favorite as our second favorite for pretty much the entire season. When Allison was knocked out at Top 4, we both were 100% behind Kris bacuase neither of us were Adam or Gokey fans. This past week, I asked my husbad if he wanted anything from Adam’s album and he sad no, he had no interest in his music. I wasn’t either, but that is personal taste for us both, he isn’t in the idol bubble and it’s only because I told him so that he knew Kris and Adam had albums out (he downloaded Kris’s album to be able to listen to it on his way to and from work which for him is a 1 hour commute). He’s also interested in Allison’s album this week, which he only knew was coming out because I told him so.

  487. Seriously, I had to go crawling through a bunch of albums looking for Kris’s and came close to giving up before I found it. Yet there on the endcaps were, I swear, every single other person whose album has been released inthe past couple of weeks! So I took a handful of Kris albums and stuck them in an empty bin there ‘ ¦.

    At my local Best Buy Kris was in the endcap as well as the alpha section. Adam was only in the alpha section and I swear I didn’t do a thing to move either anywhere. Just pure observation.

  488. At the very least, I think he’s an extremely valid counterweight to arguments that you can deduce a person’s politics & views on class, race and gender from whether or not you like disco, rock or For Your Entertainment.

    I never said that. I don’t think anybody ever said that. What I said was — I have reason to believe that some people I knew disdained disco in large part because it was a very gay, very black phenomenon when and where I went to discos. ….

    That’s completely different from saying that everybody who hates disco hates it because it’s connected to gay and black people.

    Similarly, while I think that many people have said that some people probably dislike Adam Lambert and For Your Entertainment because of homophobia, I think hardly anyone has said or implied that everybody who hates Adam Lambert or For Your Entertainment is homophobic. …. Those are completely different statements, and it’s really a stretch of illogic to say that everyone who agrees with the first also agrees with the second.

  489. Seriously, I had to go crawling through a bunch of albums looking for Kris’s and came close to giving up before I found it. Yet there on the endcaps were, I swear, every single other person whose album has been released inthe past couple of weeks! So I took a handful of Kris albums and stuck them in an empty bin there ‘ ¦.

    That’s just so weird. I know a lot of people have said that though (that they had to search for Kris’ cd). At my Walmart, Kris’ cd (as of yesterday a.m.) was at the end cap with new releases. It would be so interesting for someone who is in the “know” about merchandising to explain this. But I don’t doubt Adam will be in the “L” s by tomorrow.

  490. The problem with that theory is that Kris really isn’t doing that poorly.

    I disagree with this. His album sold a mere 80,000 units its first week out. For the winner of AI in a season that had a ton of exposure and a tour that did very well he’s doing poorly. Radio stations can play his song all day every day but people are still not buying the CD. For Kris to do well and for him to have the opportunity to release more CDs he needs to sell this one. His PR team needs to rethink their strategy because what they’re doing is not working.

  491. This past week, I asked my husbad if he wanted anything from Adam’s album and he sad no, he had no interest in his music. I wasn’t either, but that is personal taste for us both, he isn’t in the idol bubble and it’s only because I told him so that he knew Kris and Adam had albums out (he downloaded Kris’s album to be able to listen to it on his way to and from work which for him is a 1 hour commute). He’s also interested in Allison’s album this week, which he only knew was coming out because I told him so.

    Just curious, did your husband ever listen to Adam’s album to decide if he liked it or not? Or was his opinion strictly based on what he saw on AI. No biggie one way or the other, but just curious.

  492. SpenserJ

    Yeah OHP is a syndicated show that plays on Saturday and Sunday on various stations across the country. Kris did an nterview for OHP a few weeks ago, and I would bet that they will try and get Allison an interview on there too.

    Adam talking about the AMA performance and agains asked about Tommy “no, he’s straight”

  493. Looks like LLWD will end the week at #33 on the Mediabase top 40 chart ‘“ up 5 spots (and 238 spins) from last week. It’ll hold at #19 on the HAC chart, up 180 spins and closing the gap on the next chunk of songs.

    Too bad LLWD isn’t helping to sell the album though.

  494. Jericho

    Again, you have to look at the WHOLE picture…not just album sales. And you have no idea of whether people will start buying his album once they hear more music from it. He hasn’t really performed anything other than LLWD yet, but that should change when he starts doing these JingleBall concerts in December.

  495. Sassycatz-I don’t think your vote for Kris is what most people are talking about as an “against Adam” vote.
    I’m such a sap about Adam, I didn’t understand that an “anti” vote might have taken place at the time. I’m still not sure, but I have seen enough ugly written about Adam to think it’s possible. However, I am familiar with the pro-Christian voting rallies on other topics to be confident that this is very likely part of Kris’s vote. I think that teens and tweens voting for cute kid is part. Of course, you have voters for the musician singer-songwriter. I’m sure there is more…
    What may be playing out now, is that many of Kris’s voters may not be really invested, passionate fans who will buy his music.
    I didn’t vote for Kris, except a couple of times by accident on my computer, but I will buy his album.

  496. But I don’t doubt Adam will be in the ‘L’  s by tomorrow.

    I’m not so sure that either of them will move out of the new release section (at least in the stores where they have that now) anytime soon. I’ve noticed that some cd’s will stay in the new release section for several weeks, depending on how much music comes out in the weeks after that.

    I assume individual stores might also base some of that on how a product is selling (don’t want to waste an end-cap on a non-starter). So, I imagine that SuBo will be sitting in the new releases until February LOL.

  497. Seriously, I had to go crawling through a bunch of albums looking for Kris’s and came close to giving up before I found it. Yet there on the endcaps were, I swear, every single other person whose album has been released inthe past couple of weeks! So I took a handful of Kris albums and stuck them in an empty bin there ‘ ¦.

    That’s just so weird. I know a lot of people have said that though (that they had to search for Kris’ cd). At my Walmart, Kris’ cd (as of this a.m.) was at the end cap with new releases. It would be so interesting for someone who is in the ‘know’  about merchandising to explain this. But I don’t doubt Adam will be in the ‘L’  s by tomorrow.

    Honestly, I think they just don’t manage to shelve everything consistently all the time. Stocking a cd section is kind of on a par with stocking a hardware store for tedium and difficulty, I’m sure. Or maybe Kris’s album would have been on an endcap if I’d gone for it the previous week. But I went this past week so that I could pick up Kris’s and Adam’s albums both at once. … A lot of people who were released in Kris’s week, like Mayer and Nora Jones, were still in the endcaps, though.

  498. At my local Best Buy Kris was in the endcap as well as the alpha section.

    Good!

  499. Two new videos of Danny singing for a country music station audience, backed by his guitar player Def Santiago and keyboard/singer Brandon Fraley. Can’t see most of the audience, but kind of fun to watch the guy in the corner getting into it, and Danny getting the audience of country station peeps to sing along with him on Back to One. Lol.

    WHTM – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1faoqy6fO8

    Back to One – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAEHQd954UQ (have never seen Danny doing this one before — seems a little bit improvised so not sure if they planned this, or it was a request in the station’s “bull pen” format)

  500. well that was a REALLY lame interview with OHP. All they asked about was the AMA performance and a little about what WWFM was about.

    Don’t know why I’m surprised…Kris’ OHP interview was equally lame…they actually asked him about how Little Rock got its name and nothing about his album

  501. So, I imagine that SuBo will be sitting in the new releases until February LOL.

    Assuming she is not sold out!!!

  502. Thanks girlygirl for the answer. I’ve probably heard the show before – just didn’t remember what it was called. I haven’t listened to a radio show like that in its entirety since I was 15. I’m a channel flipper :)

    What may be playing out now, is that many of Kris’s voters may not be really invested, passionate fans who will buy his music.

    I think many of ALL of the voters or like this. Otherwise, every AI contestant would sell about 5 million cd’s. Most of the people watching AI are just watching a TV show, it doesn’t mean anything more than that to them. And, their vote is not any more complicated than “hey, I liked that. I think I’ll vote for that guy”. Many of them forget all about these people after the show is over.