Idol Headlines for 09/29/10

Jason Castro performs at the Art of Humanity, to benefit the Grossman Burn Foundation, Friday October 8 at the SLS Hotel, Beverly Hills California. More information HERE.

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Watch Cooper, Osnes & Munoz Sin...
Watch Cooper, Osnes & Munoz Sing Irving Berlin!

David Cook joins the 21st Annual Chris Evert / Raymond James Pro Celebrity Tennis Classic to take place Nov 5-7, 2010 in Boca Raton FL. Click HERE for tickets and more information.

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@IdolsNow: DIANA DeGARMO will be on “Good Day Atlanta” today at 9:15 AM EDT talking about “9 to 5, ” and then on “Atlanta And Co.” at 11 AM on Ch. 11.

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@ElliottYamin: “Just gettin home from the studio yall!…whew, long sesh, but another great song written and recorded!!!”

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More Headlines after the JUMP…

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Tina Fey’s Funny Friends

An all-star reunion of talent from “Saturday Night Live” will headline the salute to Tina Fey at the annual Mark Twain Prize for American Humor.

Jimmy Fallon, Seth Meyers and Fred Armisen, as well as the long-time creator and executive producer Lorne Michaels, will share their hopefully uncensored stories about Fey. Steve Martin, who was never an official member of the cast but frequent enough to qualify as an alumni, will appear. A few of her other friends will drop by including Steve Carell, Jon Hamm, Jane Krakowski and Betty White. Jennifer Hudson will perform at the November 9 sold-out event.

Read more at the Washington Post

via Jennifer Hudson Daily

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Crystal Bowersox opened for Melissa Etheridge last night at the invitation-only kickoff to the Hard Rock Cafe’s Pinktober.

photo @shirleyhalperin

Per @OneVillageIdiot, Crystal sang a 5 song set, including a new song called “Riding With The Radio”. Her set: Riding with the Radio/Farmer’s Daughter/What’s Up/Finally Got it Right/Kiss Ya. There will be vids later, I’m hearing. Crystal tweets, “I am just completely over the moon with love and gratitude. So glad to be part of pinktober!!”

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Mike Lynche recording in NYC

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Siobhan Magnus featured at fall festival

Magnus told the Times yesterday that she plans to record with Lunar Valve at her brother’s studio in Hyannis soon. Magnus said she is no longer under contract with 19 Entertainment, the company that produces ‘Idol, ‘ and does not have a manager.

Magnus said adrenaline kept her energized for her performances during the “Idol” summer tour, but she confessed to feeling a little run down after the shows ended in September.

Read more at the Cape Cod Times

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Exclusive: David Archuleta To Show Personality With New Album

David Archuleta is just seven days away from releasing his highly anticipated sophomore album, The Other Side of Down. Recently we talked with the recording superstar about his new songs, what makes the album different from his debut release, and what he hopes fans take away from the new CD.

AI Now

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Interview: Constantine Maroulis

There once was a time when the anthemic earnestness of ’80s hard rock was considered giggle-worthy, and keeping a straight face while listening to self-helpy bombast ballads like “Don’t Stop Believin’ ” and “Here I Go Again” was possible only with several veneers of snarky irony. Now — well, it’s still kind of true, but far more people are looking back nostalgically to the early-MTV era, and in particular the glam-rock revival of “hair metal.” Critical mass of hair-metal appreciation has built up to the extent that it now has its own jukebox Broadway musical, Rock of Ages, where the archetypal Midwestern boy gets off the bus in the big city hoping to make his dreams come true amid the sleaze and decadence — and the songs of Bon Jovi, Journey, Foreigner, Styx, Poison, Twisted Sister, Whitesnake, et al. Constantine Maroulis, a hard-rock kid who placed sixth in American Idol’s fourth season (booted off for belting Nickelback!), plays that top-billed boy in Rock of Ages (which will rock the Colonial Theatre like a hurricane when it opens this Wednesday) in a Tony-nominated performance. I talked to the Boston Conservatory grad about what makes hair metal sexy to today’s theatergoers:

Read more at the Boston Phoenix

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Diana DeGarmo plays Dolly Parton’s character in ‘9 to 5? at Fox Theatre

Diana DeGarmo convincingly channeled Dolly Parton’s delightful Doralee Rhodes during the musical version of “9 to 5? during opening night Tuesday of a six-day run at Fox Theatre.

DeGarmo, a former Snellville gal, got plenty of applause lines, especially when she threatens lecherous boss Franklin Hart (Joseph Mahowald) with a classic line from the film: “I’m gonna get that gun of mine, and I’m gonna change you from a rooster to a hen with one shot!”

Read more at Atlanta Journal Constitution

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The Biz: Can the New Judges Save American Idol?

Lythgoe also believes that the antidote to the show’s sliding ratings is to find an Idol who can succeed on the scale of a Carrie Underwood or Kelly Clarkson. Craig Marks, editor of the music industry bible Billboard, says that’s been the show’s real problem of late. “Idol was built to create pop stars and divas, ” he says. “Those are the biggest stars in music, and they require the least authenticity. As the show became more about rock singer-songwriters than pop, it lost its way because the audience for those kind of singers is much smaller in the music world than it is for the big, glossy, Mariah Carey—type singers. They’ve got to get that schmaltzy pop thing back.”

Read more at TV Guide

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Lythgoe Family Productions Presents CINDERELLA, 11/27-12/19

Lythgoe Family Productions, Magic Pictures International and Jason Haigh-Ellery presentCINDERELLA a Modern Musical Extravaganza! at the historic El Portal Theatre in North Hollywood from November 27-December 19, 2010. The Gala opening night on Saturday, November 27th will be a major fundraiser for LA’S Best recognized as one of the nation’s top after school programs.
In the style of the outrageous British holiday pantos, the Lythgoe Family (the people responsible for So You Think You Can Dance and American Idol) bring this wild, wacky and interactive holiday event to the States. The age-old fairytale of Cinderella is set to modern music, including Kelly Clarkson’s “Breakaway, ” Michael Buble’s “Just Haven’t Met You Yet, ” and Jennifer Lopez’ “Let’s Get Loud.” This U.S. premiere panto has a comical twist and incredible magic such as a pumpkin turning into a carriage with real live ponies right before your very eyes!

This production stars Freddie Stroma (HARRY POTTER) as Prince Charming, Jerry Mathers (Leave it to Beaver) as Cinderella’s Father and Broadway sensation Jennifer Leigh Warren as The Fairy Godmother.

Read more at Broadway World

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`So You Think You Can Dance’ contestants endure grueling days for chance at glory

The show’s chief judge, creator and producer Nigel Lythgoe says the winner is not necessarily the best dancer but the contestant who tries hardest and has the most emotional appeal.

“People know if they’re true dancers. They know how hard they are gonna have to work to attain that celebrity, ” says Lythgoe, who is also a producer on Idol. “You’ve got to be able to dance and open up your heart and your soul, and we’ve got to believe you.”

Read more at the Miami Herald

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EXCLUSIVE VIDEO INTERVIEWS: It’s No Jive – Michael Bolton Voted Off Dancing With The Stars

The soft rock singer was lined alongside Jersey Shore’s Mike “The Situation” Sorrentino in the bottom two, when he was voted off for what Tonioli dubbed “the worst jive in 11 seasons.”

While we expected Bolton to speak to reporters and appear on Jimmy Kimmel Live! following the show, he bolted without doing either to leave for a gig in Napa Valley.

Read more at Radar Online

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Backstage at DWTS: Tonight’s Controversial Elimination Has Everyone Up In Arms

“It was just unfortunate because it left a dark mark on a beautiful experience and it didn’t need to happen, ” front-runner Jennifer Grey tells us of Michael’s elimination. “Everyone here is trying so hard, no one here is a dancer, we’re all coming in as nondancers being taught how to dance, so all people who are willing to put themselves in that vulnerable expression should be treated with respect.”
DWTS, Chelsea Hightower, Michael Bolton ABC/Adam Larkey

Adds her partner Derek Hough: “Bruno’s hilarious, even when he’s being harsh it’s still with a funny humor. But yesterday he might have just gone a little too far with it.”

Read more at EOnline

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Why Julianne Hough Didn’t Return For ‘Dancing’ Season 11

Derek Hough has revealed why his sister, Julianne Hough, did not return to “Dancing with the Stars” (“DWTS”) for Season 11.

“Julianne was gonna be back this season, but there were conflicts with the movie ‘Footloose’ that she’s doing right now, ” Derek told Access Hollywood’s Shaun Robinson on Monday night at “DWTS.”

As previously reported on AccessHollywood.com in May, Julianne had planned to return to the show for Season 11, but on Monday night, Derek explained that the timing of her movie filming schedule got in the way.

Read more at Access Hollywood

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DWTS’ Chelsie Hightower: Bruno Was Too “Harsh” on Michael Bolton

Before he was eliminated Tuesday, Michael Bolton slammed judge Bruno Tonioli for being “inappropriate” while critiquing his moves this week — and his partner Chelsie Hightower agrees.

“It was very harsh, ” she told UsMagazine.com Tuesday, referring to Bruno’s remark that Bolton’s jive was “the worst” in 11 seasons. “It was very, very harsh, and I don’t know where it came from. I really don’t. It was hard to hear.”

US Magazine

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Bristol Palin Weighs In On ‘Dancing’s’ ‘Boo-Gate’

“Dancing with the Stars” contestant Bristol Palin told Access Hollywood that reports of mom Sarah Palin being booed on Monday’s show were not true.

“I think it was just a few haters out there that want to make a big deal out of it, but it’s not a big deal at all, ” Bristol told Access’ Shaun Robinson following Tuesday’s show, where Michael Bolton was sent packing. “All of us knew that they were booing at [Jennifer Grey & Derek Hough’s] scores, not at my mom and I’m not worried about it at all.”

Read more at Access Hollywood

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Wrong Winner Announced on ‘Australia’s Next Top Model’ Finale

Tuesday night’s live finale of ‘Australia’s Next Top Model’ was not pretty as a picture … in fact, it was a downright nightmare.

The show’s host Sarah Murdoch, daughter-in-law of News Corp.’s Rupert Murdoch, announced the wrong girl’s name as the winner of the reality competition on live TV.

Kelsey Martinovich was initially crowned the winner of ‘Australia’s Next Top Model’ during the 90-minute live finale, but after about one minute of celebrating, the ‘Top Model’ learned … there was a mistake.

Read more at Fancast

More Headlines:

Diana DeGarmo on “Good Day Atlanta”

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Britney Spears’ ‘Glee’ episode hits series high

“Glee” drew 13.3 million viewers and a 5.8 preliminary adults 18-49 rating — dominating the night, rising 4% from its mammoth premiere last week and scoring the pop-drama’s biggest rating ever (yes, higher than the show’s Madonna-themed episode).

Read more at Hollywood Reporter

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Michael Bolton Demands Apology From Bruno Tonioli

About mj santilli 33697 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

202 Comments

  1. woah, i see that the Australia’s Next Top Model fiasco made its way here! LOL that was just too funny :)

  2. Lythgoe also believes that the antidote to the show’s sliding ratings is to find an Idol who can succeed on the scale of a Carrie Underwood or Kelly Clarkson. Craig Marks, editor of the music industry bible Billboard, says that’s been the show’s real problem of late. “Idol was built to create pop stars and divas,” he says. “Those are the biggest stars in music, and they require the least authenticity. As the show became more about rock singer-songwriters than pop, it lost its way because the audience for those kind of singers is much smaller in the music world than it is for the big, glossy, Mariah Carey—type singers. They’ve got to get that schmaltzy pop thing back.”

    That’s the main problem: How to find relevant pop artists to compete with Katy Perrys, Rihannas, Ke$has, Jason Derulos, Lady GaGas?
    It’s true that in short term, add revenues and ratings are more important. But in long term, the show also needs to produce some relevant pop artists. It’s alright to find a country, HAC, or RnB artist once in a while. But pop artists are crucial.

  3. s much smaller in the music world than it is for the big, glossy, Mariah Carey—type singers. They’ve got to get that schmaltzy pop thing back.”

    I was with him until he said that. I’m pretty sure Mariah Carey types aren’t popular either, neither is schmaltz. I think y’all need to figure out what actually works on pop before you try to find a pop star. SMH

  4. I was with him until he said that. I’m pretty sure Mariah Carey types aren’t popular either, neither is schmaltz. I think y’all need to figure out what actually works on pop before you try to find a pop star. SMH

    Umm yeah, I agree. I guess Mariah was considered relevant in 2002 when AI started. Times have changed and vocal ability is not that important anymore for pop artists, but basically, the idea of Idol is to find good singers and turn them into relevant pop stars. I guess Beyonce would be more appropriate comparison?

  5. Are they fricken kidding me? Glossy pop singers like Mariah Carey???? That type of music is as dead as rock, lol. Now if they are talking pop star like Katy or Kesha, I agree, but even Kelly isn’t selling as well as she used to anymore. Country will always be a different type of animal, though- and no wonder so many stars of late are going that route….

    Lythgoe truly has his head up his ass.

  6. The show’s host Sarah Murdoch, daughter-in-law of News Corp.’s Rupert Murdoch, announced the wrong girl’s name as the winner of the reality competition on live TV.

    Wow. I wonder how she got that job…

    That’s the main problem: How to find relevant pop artists to compete with Katy Perrys, Rihannas, Ke$has, Jason Derulos, Lady GaGas?

    It’s really tough. X-Factor went with the obvious auto-tuning, but that wasn’t well received. Sure, Gaga can sing, but the rest NEED Auto-Tune. I guess it’s the elusive package thing that Kara was always going on about. It’s tough to survive on the show singing as badly as some of those listed (although, as we saw last year, it can be done).

    I will note that Gaga, Perry and Ke$ha do seem to be able to write hit songs, so perhaps that should be considered a component. Getting a hit quality song to start with is half the battle. If you can write your own, you don’t have to hope for somebody else’s table scraps and left-overs. Given the success that Daughtry had with songs he wrote or co-wrote, you’d think Idol might put more emphasis on that.

    Pair the kids up with successful song-writers and have them write their own coronation song this year. I’m sure that will get tongues wagging. If you get booted earlier (and your song is written), you can sing it as your boot song.

    BTW One thing I hope that they keep is letting people pick what song they are going to sing after they get booted. I always hated them having to sing the song that got them booted when they could go out on a much better note singing a song that they were actually good at.

  7. but basically, the idea of Idol is to find good singers and turn them into relevant pop stars. I guess Beyonce would be more appropriate comparison?

    Yeah, I think Beyonce would work. If anything, they need to find good, charismatic singers who can work a stage and have a marketable persona.

  8. JMHO but I don’t think it’s as crazy as it sounds to say maybe AI can reassert its relevance by actually providing something radio isn’t, which is people who can SANG. In AI’s glory days it was a showcase for people who can sing what’s out there but sing it better than just about everybody else. But lately IMO AI’s gotten too focused on relevance as narrowly defined by radio. But people are actually looking for alternatives to radio and AI needs to be looking for sweet spots in the market based on a lot more than just radio. If they find a sweet spot that actually sells and semi-fits a format (instead of straight up copying what’s already out there) then radio would actually follow.

    The Stockton Record has a sort of recap/fan reaction article to Carrie’s concert in Stockton last night. I’m posting mostly because this part gave me the lolz:

    Stephanie Villalpando, 41, and Gaby Gonzalez, 34, were at the Snoop Dogg concert and noted the lack of marijuana haze at the Underwood event.

    But “there was no drama,” they agreed, and “it was a diverse crowd, not just gangsters.”

    The article says arena officials were estimating 8600 out of about 9000 tickets sold for Carrie’s show. We’ll see what the boxscore reports say.

  9. woah, i see that the Australia’s Next Top Model fiasco made its way here! LOL that was just too funny

    that’s so incredible! i feel for the girl who was wrongly announced as the winner, that should have been so disappointing for her.
    Can you imagine this happening on AI? lol

  10. It’s really tough. X-Factor went with the obvious auto-tuning, but that wasn’t well received. Sure, Gaga can sing, but the rest NEED Auto-Tune. I guess it’s the elusive package thing that Kara was always going on about. It’s tough to survive on the show singing as badly as some of those listed (although, as we saw last year, it can be done).

    I will note that Gaga, Perry and Ke$ha do seem to be able to write hit songs, so perhaps that should be considered a component. Getting a hit quality song to start with is half the battle. If you can write your own, you don’t have to hope for somebody else’s table scraps and left-overs. Given the success that Daughtry had with songs he wrote or co-wrote, you’d think Idol might put more emphasis on that.

    I watched a few episodes of the X Factor and I think that the X Factor has a little more “edge”. I mean, both are considered entertainment TV, family shows, but I guess that British definition of a “family show” is a little bit different or something. It seems that now that the signed contestants from the X Factor get to record mostly original songs for their albums and work with top producers, they are taken a little bit more seriously as pop acts than before. I mean, everyone still knows that they come from the X Factor and that the show is more about ratings and add revenue and entertainment TV and fabricated.
    I just think American Idol became too “family friendly”.

    The contestant sing mostly songs that are older than they are, they are backed by a band that doesn’t sound current. It looks like the main Idol demographic is not really into pop music either.

    GaGa, Ke$ha and Katy do write and co-write their own songs and they also work with well known producers. But I think their image and brand are even more important. Because in the end, it doesn’t matter who wrote the song that you hear on the radio. Ke$ha has this “party girl” thing that works for her. She wouldn’t get far with it on Idol, but mainstream pop market accepted her.

    I don’t think that shows like Idol and the X Factor were created to search for singers that could also write songs. Songwriting ability is just a bonus.

  11. JMHO but I don’t think it’s as crazy as it sounds to say maybe AI can reassert its relevance by actually providing something radio isn’t, which is people who can SANG. In AI’s glory days it was a showcase for people who can sing what’s out there but sing it better than just about everybody else. But lately IMO AI’s gotten too focused on relevance as narrowly defined by radio. But people are actually looking for alternatives to radio and AI needs to be looking for sweet spots in the market based on a lot more than just radio. If they find a sweet spot that actually sells and semi-fits a format (instead of straight up copying what’s already out there) then radio would actually follow.

    Umm, I’m not too sure about this. I think that examples like Clay Aiken and Taylor Hicks taught us something? Without radioplay, you can quickly become irrelevant.

  12. Idol’s current demo would NEVER vote a Gaga, Katy or Kesha to victory. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. Find a way to change the demo back to the way it was when the show started and it will recapture its relevance. That’s my 2 cents.

  13. Idol’s current demo would NEVER vote a Gaga, Katy or Kesha to victory. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. Find a way to change the demo back to the way it was when the show started and it will recapture its relevance. That’s my 2 cents.

    Yeah. I think we all agree about that. But does anyone have any suggestions?

  14. As the show became more about rock singer-songwriters than pop, it lost its way because the audience for those kind of singers is much smaller in the music world than it is for the big, glossy, Mariah Carey—type singers.

    Is that strictly true though? The mainstream, top-40 listening audience for Mariah types is bigger… but that mainstream top-40 listening audience, while reflective of pop culture, comprises of a lot of kids, teens, and passive music listeners of all ages. Passionate music fans, the people my age who keep up with new music and bands, go to club shows, buy music, etc. are more into bands and musicians who write their own stuff. I dunno, sure, there’s more of “them” (to be fair, I’m both us and them, and there are overlaps) in numbers, but in terms of $$’s spent and time invested in music, people who care are not strictly the Ke$ha or Beyonce fans. Okay, I don’t know if I made any sense. And anyway I kind of agree with windmills- I think Idol should be about the singing- they should find the best singers that hopefully sound good singing current music and see where the radioplay/mainstream success chip falls.

    Pair the kids up with successful song-writers and have them write their own coronation song this year.

    That’s a GREAT idea. I mean, they can wait til top 4 or top 3 even. I’d love it.

  15. Mateja: Umm, I’m not too sure about this. I think that examples like Clay Aiken and Taylor Hicks taught us something? Without radioplay, you can quickly become irrelevant.

    But if you read what I said I wasn’t talking about somebody who’d be a misfit on radio like Clay and Taylor. I was saying that one of AI’s problems has been slavishly following radio, instead of looking for people who can hit market sweet spots BEYOND radio. I do think they have to “semi-fit” a radio format because it’s a marketing tool but my point was that AI can reestablish its relevance by discovering somebody who in some ways (especially by singing talent) is an alternative to what’s already out there on radio.

  16. Is that strictly true though? The mainstream, top-40 listening audience for Mariah types is bigger… but that mainstream top-40 listening audience, while reflective of pop culture, comprises of a lot of kids, teens, and passive music listeners of all ages. Passionate music fans, the people my age who keep up with new music and bands, go to club shows, buy music, etc. are more into bands and musicians who write their own stuff. I dunno, sure, there’s more of “them” (to be fair, I’m both us and them, and there are overlaps) in numbers, but in terms of $$’s spent and time invested in music, people who care are not strictly the Ke$ha or Beyonce fans.

    I think the article is right. Ke$ha, Katy Perry, Rihanna, GaGa sell a ton of singles and also a lot of albums.

    I do think they have to “semi-fit” a radio format because it’s a marketing tool but my point was that AI can reestablish its relevance by discovering somebody who in some ways (especially by singing talent) is an alternative to what’s already out there on radio.

    But ddn’t Idol do that until now? Still, those who had the most mainstream styles were the most successful.

  17. Find a way to change the demo back to the way it was when the show started and it will recapture its relevance. That’s my 2 cents.

    Well, it has been said that what really hurt the show was the loss of women in their 20s. J-Lo could help with that, perhaps? Her career hit its peak in like the late 90s, early 00’s right? So the audience that was in their teens when she was hot is now on their mid to late 20s.

    Also, I said this last night, but I think she might lure back some of the black and latino audience that Idol has lost over the last few years. Maybe that could be the difference in ending up with a different kind of winner? I admit I’m reaching here. LOL. Still, you may only need a few to make a difference.

    I already said I think Steven Tyler will entice more men to at least watch with their wives without a fight.

    If Idol is smart, they will throw in a couple of contestants that might appeal to any new eyeballs.

  18. Using Lady Gaga, Ke$ha and Katy as examples of what AI is or should be shooting for, kind of gives me the heaves. For one thing, Ke$ha and Katy can barely sing. The one thing these three women have in common is that they put on a visual show. Plus they usually have either backup singers and/or dancers. All of which cover a lack of singing talent. Lady Gaga is somewhat of an exception as she seems to have a decent voice – not a great one, though. It’s all bells and whistles with these three. And…they are currently the flavors of the month – who knows for how long? That’s one of the trademarks of todays pop charts – the meteoric rise to the top, the talk of the town, and then a year or two later, its on to the next flavor. The former pop hit makers quickly become nostalgia acts. Longevity is a rarity.

    Maybe it makes better TV to create a quick flavor of the month/year. Maybe they don’t really care about an ‘artist’s’ longevity as long as some big bucks are made quickly. Maybe that’s a formula that they’re really shooting for. I mean they do need a new huge Idol every year. Reducing the minimum age to 15 was a clear sign to me that they are looking less for artistry than for a moldable product. Kara may no longer be a judge, but I think her search for the ‘package artist’ lives on, in a new and improved model. Since I’m not much interested in bright shiny packages, but actually (heresy!) into music and artistry, I’m thinking this new AI might not have much to offer me. And I suspect that the producers are actually fine with that since I think they have their eyes on a younger audience.

  19. Idol’s current demo would NEVER vote a Gaga, Katy or Kesha to victory. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. Find a way to change the demo back to the way it was when the show started and it will recapture its relevance. That’s my 2 cents.

    [Take Gaga out of the equation because no way Simon and co ever let her into the voting rounds]

    Never, in the history of Idol, has a pretty girl (who takes on a blow-up doll persona) who cannot sing gotten close to winning the show. Otherwise, Antonella B would have won Season 6. Kim Caldwell would have won Season 2. etc. etc. etc.

    You have to be able to sing a little and neither Katy nor Ke$ha can do it (a guy might skate by, but a girl never will). Heck, Ke$ha is so far from singing, she does auto-tuned talk singing.

    Simon has always been quick to put forward the pretty girls who can’t sing, but he’s never had much luck with that. I’m sorry, Kelly is a great singer and is a pretty girl-next-door, but a Katy-Perry-Here-Look-At-My-Tits-(Pay-No-Attention-To-My-Voice-Behind-The-Curtain) she never was. I mean, SERIOUSLY! I’m not going to cry because Megan Joy didn’t win Season 8 (which was good for AI because despite the PTB attempts to turn her into a piece of meat to be ogled, she was having none of it on the tour so they would have totally lost that battle). How can Idol get back to where it never was?

    Face it, Pop is an auto-tune wasteland where gimmick counts for a lot. It will change. Pop always changes. Idol makes most of it’s money from it’s television shows. People aren’t going to get invested in a show where Ke$ha talk-sings out of tune for 16 weeks no matter how strategically ripped her clothes are.

  20. almost time for Kris’ first USO show

    lizbiz8

    #http://twitpic.com/2t1gdm – Headed over to the 1st show at AF North School / USAG Schinnen, The Netherlands…

  21. renataamelo:
    09/29/2010 at 9:24 am

    An article about some controversy that´s going on behind the scenes for Adam´s concert in Manilla. Promoters fight! http://www.pep.ph/news/26929/%3Cstrong%3E%3C-strong%3EPromoter-of-Adam-Lambert

    Damn, this looks like it could get pretty juicy. I also thought I read that the concert was almost sold out (about 15k?). It could be an attempt to drum up more press or it could escalate as it is suggested the problem could be Adam’s sexuality. This may get interesting.

  22. Yeah. I think we all agree about that. But does anyone have any suggestions?

    Lower the demo to 15-24. Take away instruments. Provide the contestants with more current songs to sing. Provide more mentoring. Yes, this may alienate some of the existing AI demo and cause them to tune out but I bet AI would take one extra 15-25 year old viewer over three existing 40-60 year old viewer any day.

  23. Until Idol changes it’s voting format the show will continue to have winner’s who appeal to a demographic that aren’t neccessarily part of the “real” music buying public. I mean, look at the success of Glee music. Who really thinks this stuff is “great” music…it’s only selling because there is a segment of our society who are too lazy to look for good music and who are just sheep that follow someone’s lead…hell, they spent a fortune on Susan Boyle, for god’s sake.

    Unless an AI contestant has something that will move beyond the AI demographic they will flounder in the real world. Kelly has a great voice, Carrie appeals to a genre of music that loves it’s blond barbie dolls, Daughtry fits in nicely with a soft rock genre that continues to be popular. In order for anyone to be successful from AI they have to have “something”…and sadly the voters don’t seem to get that. They just vote for someone who appeals to their conservative values without any thought to the other 300 million music lovers out there.

  24. If AI goes for the schmaltzy, Mariah Carey diva type, they might as well cancel the show now. Those type of singers are no longer popular. What they need to be looking for is someone who can do the electro-pop, dance-pop, pop/r&b type thing — as long as that person can sing without being auto tuned withn an inch of his or her life.

    I also think the singer-songwriter type could be more successful if AI simply allowed the contestants to perform original songs rather than forcing them to cover 40-year old songs. In fact, that applies to any type of AI contestant. Get away from the karaoke thing and the people coming off AI might be taken more seriously by radio and the general public (aka the non-AI viewing audience)

  25. The show’s host Sarah Murdoch, daughter-in-law of News Corp.’s Rupert Murdoch, announced the wrong girl’s name as the winner of the reality competition on live TV.

    woah, i see that the Australia’s Next Top Model fiasco made its way here! LOL that was just too funny

    that’s so incredible! i feel for the girl who was wrongly announced as the winner, that should have been so disappointing for her.
    Can you imagine this happening on AI? lol

    Sarah Murdoch is actually a really sweet person.[ I feel sorry for her as well] She was listening to a feed to tell her who the winner was & they gave her the wrong name which they then corrected but the damage was done. What’s wrong with using a card with the winners name on it- no dispute then [ unless the wrong card is given!!]
    The 2 girls were actually very laid back about it & the runner up hasn’t done too badly – she will still now get to go to New York & they are running both girls on the cover of a model magazine which originally was reserved just for the winner!!

    I think the article is right. Ke$ha, Katy Perry, Rihanna, GaGa sell a ton of singles and also a lot of albums.

    I think only Gaga songs would work on AI as they are better songs than the others . On The X Factor here in Australia Gaga’s songs have been sung twice already[ with some success] as have Rihanna’s but that didn’t work well!!

  26. An article about some controversy that´s going on behind the scenes for Adam´s concert in Manilla. Promoters fight! http://www.pep.ph/news/26929/%3Cstrong%3E%3C-strong%3EPromoter-of-Adam-Lambert

    I did not follow that at all, lol.

    I do think they have to “semi-fit” a radio format because it’s a marketing tool but my point was that AI can reestablish its relevance by discovering somebody who in some ways (especially by singing talent) is an alternative to what’s already out there on radio.

    How can Idol be revelant by finding someone who is not radio revelant? What are the sweet spots that sell well beyond radio? (asking because i really don’t know who sells amazeballs without radio. ) Jack Johnson? Alt rock? Grobin?

    Who they are looking for this year is not the person who will be big on pop radio next year. They are forever playing catch up in my opinion.

  27. Idol needs to focus on VOICES and ignore Top 40 and singer songwriters both. The biggest seller off a reality TV show recently is …Ms. Susan Boyle. Just saying.

    I can’t imagine anything more horrible than listening to singer-songwriters do original music. The kareoke thing is all Idol has going for it. At least you know most of the songs they’ll sing are great even if the singers suck.

    At least they’re off to a good start by limiting the use of instruments.
    What they really need though is diversity of genres on S10. That’s really #1.

  28. Provide the contestants with more current songs to sing.

    I think that’s the most important thing they could do.

    I bet AI would take one extra 15-25 year old viewer over three existing 40-60 year old viewer any day.

    I think they want anyone between 18-49. They don’t care which side of the range you fall on.

    I also think the singer-songwriter type could be more successful if AI simply allowed the contestants to perform original songs rather than forcing them to cover 40-year old songs.

    I agree. There are a lot of people who are very successful singing songs they write, but AI doesn’t have a way to access anyone’s true ability to write hits. If they are not going to let them sing originals, then stop casting that type. Bruno Mars and Mike Posner are both male singer songwriters, but Idol would not have a way for its audience to figure out that they had that kind of talent.

    Who really thinks this stuff is “great” music…it’s only selling because there is a segment of our society who are too lazy to look for good music and who are just sheep that follow someone’s lead…

    That’s a lot of conjecture there. Glee is not too far off from the High School Musical “lets put of a show” sensability that is popular right now. Acapella groups have been having a surge in popularity on college campuses for the last few years. Maybe some people just enjoy that kind of sound.

  29. American Idol remains as clueless as ever. As others have said, if they want the next Katy or Kesha they need a brand-new voting audience. Or they need to just put it all in hands of the judges.

    And I can’t begin to guess how they go about changing the audience demo. Seriously, it would probably take bringing in people like Claude Kelly and Dr. Luke (who have absolutely no interest) to mentor and guide the show. They would also need to cast a lot of CHR/Urban/R&B people.

    It’s probably a mute point—I don’t think the show will last more than one more year.

    And I can’t imagine listening to contestants singing original music—sounds like a trainwreck to me. Maybe pair them up with current top hitmakers (if they can find any interested in being tied that closely to the show).

  30. I also think the singer-songwriter type could be more successful if AI simply allowed the contestants to perform original songs rather than forcing them to cover 40-year old songs. In fact, that applies to any type of AI contestant.

    I agree with both you and Kirsten on this.

    It’s. About. The. Songs. Get the right songs, and the demo will follow.

    Oh, and on the topic of writing their own coronation songs (something I heartily endorse), please tone down the requirement that they have to be so damn uplifting. We live in a pop world where Disturbia, Bad Romance, and Love the Way You Lie have all been Hot 100 top hits. Even I Gotta Feeling is clearly more about drinking off the stress of the workweek than really celebrating how inherently awesome life is. Pop is a dark place sometimes. Let the Idols visit there.

    At least you know most of the songs they’ll sing are great even if the singers suck.

    Oh, this isn’t even defensible on its face. The song choices have sucked beyond the telling any number of times, and I’d totally take a strummy Turban “original” over half of them. It’s that desperate.

  31. and sadly the voters don’t seem to get that. They just vote for someone who appeals to their conservative values without any thought to the other 300 million music lovers out there.

    Guess I just don’t understand this statement. Doesn’t everyone vote for their personal favorite? Why would I vote based on other people’s values and how would I even know that?

  32. Well it’s true Idol has sucked the juice out of many older songs. However, some of the best genres ever have been Big Band or Standards night. Sorry, but the thought of a strummy Turban “original” sounds horrendous. Of course doing “original” music is one way to thin the herd quickly. ;)

  33. on the DWTS front, what is “controversial” about Bolton getting voted off? I have never seen one second of that show, but from what I read, he was horrible in the first week and he was horrible this week. So why shouldn’t he have been booted?

  34. I think it’s so funny, they talk about the need to be pop and current, and then they bring in Steven Tyler to sit as a judge and Jimmy Iovine to serve as “in house mentor.”

    They either need to fork over BIG money to get some current songs, or fork over even BIGGER money to fly in Max Martin.

  35. However, some of the best genres ever have been Big Band or Standards night.

    Yeah, there’s a lot of good material there. For one week. That still leaves a lot of other weeks where even if the themes weren’t ridiculously constrained, the actual cleared lists certainly were.

    I think Turban originals would be kind of horrendous too, but I still think it’s a better option than another effing rendition of IDWMAT.

    And if they paired the AIers with the songwriters they’ll actually be using after the show, then at least the voting audience has a clue about what the album might sound like. Even Sparks does some cowriting.

  36. “Those are the biggest stars in music, and they require the least authenticity.

    So this guy is saying that Carrie and Kelly aren’t authentic? And that the show should focus on personality over singing ability? This makes no sense, and there is no way that someone who is more about image than singing ability is going to do well on AI. The so called singer/songwriter types do well on the show because they can sing, the people who can actually sing will always do better on the show. And so what if the audience for HAC audiences are smaller, I remember a time that the show ignored country artists, but all it took was for Carrie to become a multi platinum, and suddenly 19 and Sony started to sign at least one country artist per year.

    Idol needs to focus on VOICES and ignore Top 40 and singer songwriters both. The biggest seller off a reality TV show recently is …Ms. Susan Boyle. Just saying.

    I don’t think that I understand this quote either. Many in the Top 40 don’t have the greatest voices, but they have huge personalities, even someone like Gaga and even Ke$ha, who both have above average voices, rely mostly on their personalities. This will not work over the two month span of AI, that’s just not what the show is about. It is a show that relies on people believing that the actually know who the contestants are, but history shows that those who try to get by on image alone, don’t do well on the show.

  37. I could see option for originals being added towards the end, like at top 3 or 4. That way you know they can sing and perform (mostly, there is sometimes a bad egg that sneaks through) and now you get to see if there is anything else up their sleeve.

  38. IMO, AI first needs to get back to finding real talent, amateurs who the voting public can get invested in and not feel they are ringers with unfair advantage. Second, I hate the playing instruments. Now, we hear singing but see no entertaining. I don’t want to watch one after another just stand there and sing. On Nashville Star, admittedly support for their winners was non existent and they become extinct, one week was always original song night and it was always fabulous. One big turnoff to people I know who quit watching AI was all the producer-judge manipulation. I still watch, not devotedly, seldom vote anymore. I just got tired of all the obvious filth and foul stuff the show pulled on the kids. If its a contest, quit trying to rig it and let the voters pick the winners. Otherwise, quit pretending and let the judges pick. I would love to hear them sing full songs. Hard to tell really what they can do in snippets.

  39. On Nashville Star, admittedly support for their winners was non existent and they become extinct, one week was always original song night and it was always fabulous.

    This would also give an unfair advantage to those who can write, and people will continue to complain about singer/songwriters.

  40. OMG. Idol – I didn’t think you could ‘get’ any more schizophrenic than you already are. Wrong. There is craziness yet untapped. Everybody upthread has mentioned at least one of the symptoms, suggested remedies, and I’m totally exhausted with your malaise. Do what your gonna do – have your trainwreck, or not. I’m sure it will be “Good TV”.

    I came to this show in Season 7 because it had the artist of my choice, and that was one and done, but for the last two years, even my casual attention shows everything said is contradicted by everything done. These grandiose pronouncements? I think they’ve lost track of their own spin, as the former judges used to frequently do. Think it’s catching?

    They don’t want my money? That’s fine – I don’t plan to give it to them. At this point, I’ll just wave as TPTB go by with their hair on fire- and feel a little compassion for the contestants in their wake.

  41. Elliegrll: So this guy is saying that Carrie and Kelly aren’t authentic? And that the show should focus on personality over singing ability?

    I think his definition of authenticity is basically rock credibility – paying your dues and singing and writing being part of your blood in a way that’s uncompromised by major label and mass market concerns. He’s thinking about how Mariah Carey didn’t do a lot of her own writing at first and I don’t think Whitney Houston did any for her big hits. I don’t think he really cares that Kelly and Carrie have cowritten a lot of their hits by now or that Chris Daughtry’s proven he can have a big hit with a song he wrote by himself.

    I’m not saying I agree with that but I think what he’s saying is AI lost its relevance trying to reach for credibility the show’s not set up for. No number of Grammys and other awards can change that for him. I’m sure he’s not alone in thinking that.

  42. AI is also going to have to go younger. I think one of the reasons radio is SO HARD on Idol alums is that they are rejecting not the singer or the song, but the perceived Idol fanbase. I think this is especially true of CHR. KISS, as an example, doesn’t care about the wants of a bunch of 40-60 yr olds who probably wouldn’t touch their stations if it wasn’t for their Idol. I am not agreeing with this, necessarily, but I think the older AI fan demo is a major turnoff for CHR radio.

  43. This would also give an unfair advantage to those who can write, and people will continue to complain about singer/songwriters.

    I fail to see how songwriting is an “unfair advantage” when the ultimate prize is a recording contract.

    And if you look at the current Top 40 chart, 9 of the top 10 have cowriting (or solo/whole band writing) credits by the artists in question. 14 of the top 15. Whether or not the pop audience “cares” about the artists having writing credits, clearly there is a favorable market response to songs that have such credits.

  44. The thing about AI trying to slavishly follow the current trends for what’s hot is that Pop music trends tend to be very short-lived. What is blowing up the radio and the sales charts this year might be totally played out and impossible to market a couple of years from now. Very few pop acts seem to have any real longevity when it comes to sales or radio play. On the other hand, singer-songwriters and country artists seem able to carve out very long careers, even if they might never be as “big” or sell as many albums in a particular moment as the pop star du jour.

  45. Guess I just don’t understand this statement. Doesn’t everyone vote for their personal favorite? Why would I vote based on other people’s values and how would I even know that?

    Isn’t the premise of Idol to find the next “American Idol” not to find the guy or gal who sings the way you want to listen. This is where the show has lost it’s way. We now have had three guys win in three years who, for all intents and purposes, are the same type of guy playing a guitar singing the same “soft rockie” type songs. And, obviously, from the way they are selling and the interest in them the decline of the public outside of Idol has been telling.

    If peeps were honest they would vote for the person who has the best chance of succeeding in the business…and this may not be the person who sings your Grandmother’s favorite tune with gusto. It’s just like voting for a politician. If we were honest we would vote for someone who could do the best job…not the guy or gal we like the best or who has the least dirty laundry or who echos the favorite politician of the past. But, hell, we tend to be to self-centered to think about anyone but ourselves when we vote….in fact a lot of peeps vote with the “screw the other guy” attitude because it makes them feel so important and relevant. And this attitude has presented the rest of us with how many “great” recording stars over the past nine seasons?

  46. Chicagolaw: AI is also going to have to go younger. I think one of the reasons radio is SO HARD on Idol alums is that they are rejecting not the singer or the song, but the perceived Idol fanbase. I think this is especially true of CHR. KISS, as an example, doesn’t care about the wants of a bunch of 40-60 yr olds who probably wouldn’t touch their stations if it wasn’t for their Idol. I am not agreeing with this, necessarily, but I think the older AI fan demo is a major turnoff for CHR radio.

    Hate it but also agree with it. That’s part of why I made that point about trying to find people who can fit radio but also hit market sweet spots outside of radio where it’s OK to be *gasp* older and female.

  47. I think the article is right. Ke$ha, Katy Perry, Rihanna, GaGa sell a ton of singles and also a lot of albums.

    Ke$ha, Katy Perry, Gaga, (not really Rihanna anymore?) sell a ton of singles and albums, but these happen to be the biggest names in pop now. If we’re comparing how big a space pure pop fills in the music world versus bands and singer-songwriters, then you gotta put compare them with some of the biggest bands/singer-songwriters out there. Jack Johnson and U2 and John Mayer consistently sell lots of albums and rake in the concert revenue, and stay relevant without blowing up the pop charts. The next Idol could luck out and be the next Katy Perry, or just try but end up with oh I dunno, who’s a mediocre pop star– like an Ashley Tisdale or something. Or the next Idol could be the next Jason Mraz or he could be I dunno, a Matt Wertz (who I like, btw). Point is, Idol wants a shot at creating the next big whatever– not the moderate successes. I still think it’s a crapshoot, and I don’t get how concentrating on pop increases those chances. And if in chasing the pop dream, they end up crowning bad singers who are all about the image, well, that sucks. But anyway that’s not really the comparison I was trying to make. I guess my point, again, is that I agree with windmills. Idol should stop trying to chase the latest radio fad, and just try to find the best singer in a current genre. My problem is that the shrinking Idol audience is getting worse and worse at voting for great singers… we don’t want mediocre singers in pop or in rock or folk or country or whatever.

  48. Chicagolaw: AI is also going to have to go younger. I think one of the reasons radio is SO HARD on Idol alums is that they are rejecting not the singer or the song, but the perceived Idol fanbase. I think this is especially true of CHR. KISS, as an example, doesn’t care about the wants of a bunch of 40-60 yr olds who probably wouldn’t touch their stations if it wasn’t for their Idol. I am not agreeing with this, necessarily, but I think the older AI fan demo is a major turnoff for CHR radio.

    I couldn’t agree more. I think that this is one of the problems that Kris had with The Truth. It’s not a bad song, but it is the type of song that consumers and those in radio expect to hear from AI alums, and it’s a song people would expect to hear from a singer who’s closer to 50, instead of 25.

  49. My problem is that the shrinking Idol audience is getting worse and worse at voting for great singers….

    And unfortunately as far as S9 goes, they didn’t give us a whole lot of great singers to choose from. Haley? Andrew? Timmy? Lacey? Key of Lee? Not good singers.

  50. The thing about AI trying to slavishly follow the current trends for what’s hot is that Pop music trends tend to be very short-lived. What is blowing up the radio and the sales charts this year might be totally played out and impossible to market a couple of years from now.

    I agree. I recently read a piece that said pop radio tends to go in 3-4 year cycles.

    Its the people who have images that are not tied to a genre that can roll with the pop punches IMO… like Madonna was the sexual-boundary pusher and crooner of danceable hits. It didn’t matter if it was R&B dance or Club type dance or pop type dance as long as she had a catchy beat and a sexy video. Then she’d throw in the occasional ballad and she lasted for years. I think Kelly is in that mode as the angry, spunky ex-girlfriend next door. I would say Beyonce (sexy look but don’t touch dream girl) is along the same lines, and Usher is too as the dancing smooth talking romantic.

    As for Idol, its a TV show first and foremost IMO. They need to keep their 18-49 demo more than anything. I think JLo helps with the younger end and Steve helps with the men. They also need their family show status to get the sheer numbers in viewers. I don’t think they need to get racy. Dropping the age limit means the tweeners might find someone to root for.

    They only need an Idol to sell well that first album. Putting up a variety of people with a wide range of appeal and giving them the option to sing newer songs might help them get someone who can make a big splash for one album, I think.

  51. So this guy is saying that Carrie and Kelly aren’t authentic? And that the show should focus on personality over singing ability? This makes no sense.

    I think I understand what the man is saying.

    First and foremost, Idol is a TV show. At its original core, the show is a televised casting call for the next pop sensation. So what can be done to find that elusive pot of gold that is a potential pop music/pop culture superstar? I think a lot of the current mindset surrounding Idol, for both the producers and audience, would have to change dramatically.

    But the key is to find someone who would be attractive to most audience members, can hold a song in key, has personality, and is willing and able to change as the pop landscape dictates.

    As crazy as this may sound, Idol may need a contestant who isn’t worried about musical intergrity. Yes, the person wants to put out good music. But they need someone who isn’t worried about credibility so much. Let’s be honest, if you’re getting your big break through a TV talent show, most folks aren’t looking at you as a serious artist, at least not right away. You can go for that as time goes on, but it’s not there in the beginning. Embrace that and use it as a platform to become the biggest star you can.

    As much as I like many of the singer-songwriter types that have been on the show, I can understand that doesn’t always play to pop trends.

    EDIT: Looks like Tinawana and I have similiar opinions.

  52. I don’t know why people are so convinced that idol can’t find a pop star. Kelly Clarkson is still having hits on the radio, so there is one type they can find on the show. What about Bruno Mars? He is a pretty good singer and that is part of his appeal to a lot of people, that is a type that idol could find. Also, just because Katy, Ke$ha, Rihanna, and all of them can’t sing it doesn’t mean idol can’t find someone who can sing and also sing some pop dance fluff on their album. I mean, the appeal of Katy and all them isn’t that they can’t sing, right? That would just be stupid. Their appeal is they sing songs with catchy dance hooks. Get a pretty girl on idol who can really sing and then hook them up with Max Martin after the show and *boom* hit.

    Also, of course, find an amazingly talented and good looking contestant like Carrie who sings country and *boom* hit.

  53. This little bit out of the Cinderella news release made me chuckle

    introduces Eddie Driscoll and Mark Edgar Stephens as Evil Step Sisters Cowel & Seecrest,

    I was happy to see Kara was involved in this production as well.

  54. My problem is that the shrinking Idol audience is getting worse and worse at voting for great singers….

    I can’t agree with this, but keeping with the topic, not being able to sing hasn’t hurt Katy Perry. Being able to sing is a very important requirement for being on AI, but not for producing a catchy song that people like, or for selling a lot of albums.

    But the key is to find someone who would be attractive to most audience members, can hold a song in key

    Neither Katy or Ke$ha sing in key. Their singing ability is not why the are popular. Neither of these people would do well on AI, and translating their music to AI just wouldn’t work.

  55. How did Jordin win in Season 6? She was a wholesome, sometimes awkward 17 year old GIRL with a great voice who did not play an instrument and who had not released any albums prior to coming onto the show. She has had some major success on the pop charts. She would not have a chance today on AI. What changed after Season 6? Try to answer that question producers and you may have a solution to your problems.

  56. AI has to put their effort in what makes them the most money and that is the show itself. They have to keep attracting the coveted demo (18-49) and keep the advertisers happy. Hopefully the contestants will be compelling and the judges entertaining. I don’t know if the songs have to be more current (but an updated song list will be nice) or original (this probably will not work) or should instruments be banned, but there are has to be variety and talent.

    IMHO, the success of the finalists post-show are not that relevant to the success of the show anymore. The appeal of following the debut albums and radio numbers are the limited to a few hardcore AI fans. The cultural impact of AI has past and it needs to just focus on being a good show (like Dancing with the Stars). This is an out there thought, but I think the winners should get a cash prize and a EP.

  57. What changed after Season 6? Try to answer that question producers and you may have a solution to your problems.

    The demographics of the audience and voters changed. Now we have more older women watching and voting, while the younger viewers are leaving the show. As the contestant pool gets less diverse, so will the show’s voters and viewers.

  58. I think AI needs to concentrate on the show first and the careers of the singers later. It’s still one of the highest rated shows on TV. All they have to do is give us good entertainment and forget the rest until after the finale.

    They went off track when they started “casting” the top 24. They picked “types” according to what was playing on the radio and what was selling. I have no doubt they wanted a Taylor Swift, a Daughtry/Chad Kroeger, a Beyonce, a Nelly, or a Justin Bieber last year.

    Just give us variety in the Top 24. S5 had a little of everything and that’s why so many had the success that they did after the season ended.

  59. If peeps were honest they would vote for the person who has the best chance of succeeding in the business…and this may not be the person who sings your Grandmother’s favorite tune with gusto

    I couldn’t care less if someone has the best chance of succeeding if there not someone I enjoy listening to and honesty has nothing to do with it. Do you know people who vote for a contestant they don’t personally favor but that might be the best thing for idol? I would be amazed to know that people would vote for who ‘might’ have a better chance of succeeding in the business and not for who they personally prefer.

  60. Also, what is this “radio won’t play idol”?

    Carrie pumps out #1s on country. Kelly still gets played. September is climbing the charts for Daughtry. Jordin has had some trouble selling lately but Battlefield was a big it. WWFM and LLWD both were played a lot on Top 40 and HAC. I just don’t understand where this sentiment is coming from.

  61. f peeps were honest they would vote for the person who has the best chance of succeeding in the business…

    Why?? That is really stupid. I don’t watch idol to help record companies make bank.

  62. I don’t know why people are so convinced that idol can’t find a pop star. Kelly Clarkson is still having hits on the radio

    If it was this simple, Kelly’s last single would not have flopped on pop, and her last album would not have fallen short of selling 1 million copies.

    If peeps were honest they would vote for the person who has the best chance of succeeding in the business…and this may not be the person who sings your Grandmother’s favorite tune with gusto

    People vote for who they like. Obviously everyone has their own preferences, and so everyone will have different opinions of who they think might have a successful career.

  63. Neither Katy or Ke$ha sing in key. Their singing ability is not why the are popular.

    Agreed, though Ke$ha is mindless fun. But for Idol, the person needs to be able to sing on some level. Does anyone think the Idol audience would go for someone who can’t hold a note at all?

    If Idol wants pop viability, they’re going have to find a way to mix talent with being topical. Or they need to change the model to reflect the show’s current slant.

  64. Isn’t the premise of Idol to find the next “American Idol” not to find the guy or gal who sings the way you want to listen.

    American Idol is a voting show. The show is set up to engage the viewer to find a favorite and to follow up that fervor by voting like crazy.

    The person who sits around thinking “Hm, which of these contestants will sell the most records!” is rare, if that person exists at all.

  65. I don’t know why people are so convinced that idol can’t find a pop star. Kelly Clarkson is still having hits on the radio, so there is one type they can find on the show. What about Bruno Mars? He is a pretty good singer and that is part of his appeal to a lot of people, that is a type that idol could find.

    Good point. So what pop hitmakers of the past few years can sing well enough for a show like Idol?

    Gaga
    Kelly
    Bruno
    Usher
    Beyonce
    Pink
    Alicia Keys

    I can’t think of any more, but that seems like a nice range of performers. Some write and some don’t. When you add people who have had top selling albums from outside pop:

    Michael Buble
    Trey Songs
    SuBo
    Keysha Cole – half the R&B chart really
    Carrie – half the country chart for that matter

    There really are a lot of options for idol to find a real singer that can sell records.

    If it was this simple, Kelly’s last single would not have flopped on pop, and her last album would not have fallen short of selling 1 million copies.

    It was her 4th single.. the others got plenty of radio love. And her album outsold a lot of people’s. Kelly did well last time out IMO.

  66. If it was this simple, Kelly’s last single would not have flopped on pop, and her last album would not have fallen short of selling 1 million copies.

    But she still had hits off the album. Ke$ha’s album hasn’t gone platinum. If Katy keeps selling like she has I don’t think she will sell platinum. Rihanna and Ke$ha have all had singles that failed. Maybe they all aren’t relevant in pop music then? Maybe no one is then I guess?

  67. What changed after Season 6?

    The songs got older. Anyone who could make the moldy oldies sound relatively contemporary broke out ahead because of that. And that means musicians who play instruments have the advantage in seasons where they can be used, because they have the tools to both hear and translate those songs in a relatively fresh way.

    The three past winners? All, on average, sang the younger- (if not outright youngest-) skewing songs. And that’s not a new trend. I’m too lazy to look up the Idol Guy song age post, but it’s out there.

    Again, if AI wants to make it easier for all different types of contestants to compete, then they need to give them fresher songs with which to work.

  68. And Usher really sucked live on Idol. OMG was a shit song though.

    Add Sara Bareilles to the list of good singers that are doing pretty well for themselves. She’s more HAC, but has a Top 40 hit now.

  69. The songs got older.

    Lol, no they didn’t. The first 4 seasons you were really lucky if you got a song done within the last 10 years. For all the talk about how idol needs to have more current songs, the funny thing is that the more successful seasons were filled with mostly old time songs.

  70. And Usher really sucked live on Idol.

    So did Alica Keys. But both can actually sing. They’ve sung live before and killed it on many occasions.

    Half the idols who come back to perform don’t sound as good live as they did as a contestant. I’ve always wondered what that was about. LOL

    Add Sara Bareilles to the list of good singers that are doing pretty well for themselves.

    Good catch! She has a great voice.

  71. I think Idol is capable of finding another female pop star winner, but the right combination of things has to be there. Having a having a great voice just isnt enough. I’m thinking a beautiful girl, fun trendy style, likable personality AND a good voice.

    eta: I wouldnt look at Kelly’s last album sales as proof shes fading. Katy Perry is as hot as you can get now and her album sales arent exactly soaring. Kelly can still generate pop hits with the right songs.

  72. Lol, no they didn’t

    Between S6 (when popularity had already peaked) and S7, they certainly did. And it’s not like S8 was full of fresh new themes, either.

    Regardless, the people who could sing younger songs did better, and the more times they repeat themes, the more the songs feel older to the audience who has been watching for awhile. If one wants a show to appear fresh to younger audiences who have already been to the rodeo, they need new songs. Otherwise it’s SSDY and why buy the album from that person?

  73. But she still had hits off the album. Ke$ha’s album hasn’t gone platinum. If Katy keeps selling like she has I don’t think she will sell platinum. Rihanna and Ke$ha have all had singles that failed. Maybe they all aren’t relevant in pop music then? Maybe no one is then I guess?

    I think this just shows that finding a pop superstar is not as simple as your previous post or the author of the article said that it is.

    Based on the knocks against singer/songwriter types, Already Gone should not have done miles better than All I Ever Wanted.

  74. I think a big part of the problem is Idol’s production values. The Idol band simply doesn’t do current R&B/Pop very well, or it just doesn’t translate very well to the Idol stage for whatever reason. What it does do well is old songs, backing up guitar strummers, etc. They should go with something more like the Rock Star band, maybe with different groups of musicians for singers in different genres. They really don’t need the full orchestra. They also need to put the singers in front of the band and not just wandering aimlessly around the gigantic stage by themselves.

    I think the show is just running its course. Kelly won Idol by singing really awesome karaoke versions old songs with cheesy backing tracks. A new Idol trying to become the “new Kelly” will probably have to sing Kelly’s songs better than Kelly, rearrange songs, be a dynamic performer and would still lose to a midwestern guy with a guitar.

  75. I think this just shows that finding a pop superstar is not as simple as your previous post or the author of the article said that it is.

    No, I think it just goes to show that not every song is a hit, but it doesn’t mean a bad single here or there means someone is no longer a pop success

  76. Adam has now been nominated for another international music award.

    cmaawards Nominated for Best Singer Int. #AdamLambert. Congrats! @adamlambert #cmaawards #germanaward

  77. So what pop hitmakers of the past few years can sing well enough for a show like Idol?

    Gaga
    Kelly
    Bruno
    Usher

    Beyonce
    Pink
    Alicia Keys

    Of this group, the two guys would likely be your final two. Another sausage fest, LOL!

    I think Bruno takes the crown because he’s got the cute factor going in his favor. But Usher can dance his butt off and that gives him a good chance.

    You know, if you combine Usher’s dance with Bruno’s magazine-cover good looks and an acceptable voice, you get. . .Chris Brown. Who would have been a strong Iol contestant. Makes me think how he screwed up things royally.

  78. I’m disappointed in the direction that the show seems to be taking. To me it’s a step backwards because I prefer the rockish singer songwriters that they have had the past few years. I understand they need to find a different type this year, but they shouldn’t put down other types.

    And the thing is, the way the album sales are now, that even pop singers aren’t selling as much as they used to. Lady Gaga, Katy Perry and Kesha have platinum albums, and they have sold more world wide and have had more singles. But as far as album sales go, they are not that much higher than David Cooks album. At the end of last year, his was right up there at the year end countdowns. And the number 1 album was Taylor Swift’s and thats the type they tried to have on last year. And bands such as Train and KOL have been popular. And I think the closest that AI has had to a pop singer in recent years has been Adam Lambert.

    Maybe the problem is that the winners and runner up need more time on their album to really show what they are capable of, especially if they are doing their own writing. Or maybe they just want someone who won’t write their own songs and be molded.

    So to me, if this is the direction they go it I probably won’t like it as much. The past few years I have found singers that I have liked enough to become a fan of afterwards, but I can’t see that happening with the type they are looking for. What really concerns me is that they are looking for less authenticity in their singers.

    Maybe it isn’t what Idol was doing the past few years that should change, but maybe Pop music the way it is now needs to change to have more variation.

  79. What changed after Season 6? Try to answer that question producers and you may have a solution to your problems.

    Instruments were allowed.

  80. So what pop hitmakers of the past few years can sing well enough for a show like Idol?

    Gaga
    Kelly
    Bruno
    Usher
    Beyonce
    Pink
    Alicia Keys

    I’ve never thought that Usher was a great singer, but that’s probably because he’s usually focusing on so many other things while he’s on stage, and his singing usually isn’t that important to him. He, along with Gaga, is a good examples of where pop music is, they both can sing a lot better than they do, but it’s really not something that is necessary for them to be successful.

  81. Instruments were allowed.

    What does this have to do with people’s reluctance to vote for someone who is a female, or who isn’t white?

  82. What does this have to do with people’s reluctance to vote for someone who is a female, or who isn’t white?

    Because girls and women gravitate toward cute white guys who play guitar. Before instruments, women like Fantasia, Kelly, and Carrie could win.

    ETA: Don’t get me wrong, instruments have spawned my favorite idol, Cook. And he only used instruments on half of his performances.

  83. What does this have to do with people’s reluctance to vote for someone who is a female, or who isn’t white?

    Probably another reason that Idol would want to change their demographics. They now have a black man and a Puerto Rican woman at the judges’ table. I suspect TPTB see what we see and are trying to figure out a way to change that.

    The problem with that is they alienate the current fanbase and the desired fanbase doesn’t come on board. They’ll be in worse shape, with worse ratings.

    It’s all a roll of the dice.

  84. Idol isn’t going to find a pop superstar because that is not the image they sell. A Ke$ha, Bruno Mars, Katy Perry, ect would never be cast on the show let alone be able to sell that type of image though the lens of the show with its limited song lists and theme weeks. Idol has a wholesome family friendly image, which is a complete departure from the sexy, hip, urban image many of the hot pop stars of today have. The problem with Idol is that is refuses to embrace the audience it has and what type of music/genre/contestant they gravitate to and consider that a problem instead of a strength. So good luck on them trying to cater to an audience and find the type of singer that is opposite of the type of show they actually have.

  85. What changed after Season 6? Try to answer that question producers and you may have a solution to your problems.

    More talent

  86. The age when each of the winners of AI won is interesting and telling:

    Kelly: 20
    Ruben: 25
    Fantasia: 20
    Carrie: 22
    Taylor: 30
    Jordin: 17
    David: 25
    Kris: 24
    Lee: 24

    Up to Jordin at least, the typical AI winner was an early 20’s woman. The outliers were Ruben and Taylor. After Jordin, the typical AI winner became a mid-20’s man. So, not only is the demo older, it looks like the current demo prefers men in the mid-20’s over women in their early 20’s. AI has NEVER crowned a male winner under 24. The only male runner up under 24 has been David A. I wonder why?

  87. I think AI needs to concentrate on the show first and the careers of the singers later. It’s still one of the highest rated shows on TV. All they have to do is give us good entertainment and forget the rest until after the finale.

    I was searching for a way to say this when I saw your post. What the SHOW needs is someone like Adam Lambert. Someone who knows how to work a stage, create a number, who keeps you coming back to see what they are going to do next, who has at least some of Adam’s versatility, someone with personality. Like you said, someone who knows how to ENTERTAIN. If they could get a couple of contestants like that into the finals interest in the show is sure to rebound. Decide what direction the artist and TPTB want to go in after, once some buzz is created. Unfortunately performers like this have a hard time getting past the first rounds.

  88. Because girls and women gravitate toward cute white guys who play guitar. Before instruments, women like Fantasia, Kelly, and Carrie could win.

    ETA: Don’t get me wrong, instruments have spawned my favorite idol, Cook. And he only used instruments on half of his performances.

    Kris played guitar on less than half of his performances, yet someone like Scott played an instrument on most of his, except one, and I think the same is true for Matt.

    I think the middle aged women who have made up the bulk of the viewers and voters in recent years would have an issue about voting for someone who is black or a female even if there wasn’t a white guy with a guitar in the contestant pool.

  89. Adam has now been nominated for another international music award.

    cmaawards Nominated for Best Singer Int. #AdamLambert. Congrats! @adamlambert #cmaawards #germanaward

    Oooh! Very cool. Is this a German award? Damn,Best Singer? It is really nice to see Adam get recognized like this internationally. I predict we will see more of this by the end of the year.

  90. Up to Jordin at least, the typical AI winner was an early 20’s woman. The outliers were Ruben and Taylor. After Jordin, the typical AI winner became a mid-20’s man. So, not only is the demo older, it looks like the current demo prefers men in the mid-20’s over women in their early 20’s. AI has NEVER crowned a male winner under 24. The only male runner up under 24 has been David A. I wonder why?

    The older contestants tend to have more experience. Most have performed in public before, so that gives them an edge on the younger contestants, who may not know who they are as artists.

  91. The older contestants tend to have more experience. Most have performed in public before, so that gives them an edge on the younger contestants, who may not know who they are as artists.

    And yet, they lowered the contestant eligibility age to 15.

  92. And yet, they lowered the contestant eligibility age to 15.

    That was a desperation move to try to get more younger people on and look for the next Fetus (Justin Bieber).

  93. Up to Jordin at least, the typical AI winner was an early 20’s woman. The outliers were Ruben and Taylor. After Jordin, the typical AI winner became a mid-20’s man. So, not only is the demo older, it looks like the current demo prefers men in the mid-20’s over women in their early 20’s. AI has NEVER crowned a male winner under 24. The only male runner up under 24 has been David A. I wonder why?

    Not that it’s important but Kris was 23 when he won.

    This said, i don’t think it’s much revealing other than being a little older means the contestant has more experience and is more mature artistically so there are more chance they will be liked more

  94. Not that it’s important but Kris was 23 when he won.

    Also–Ruben was 24, Fantasia was 19 (turned 20 right after), and Taylor was 29.

  95. And yet, they lowered the contestant eligibility age to 15.

    I think there is no chance that they can get a Bieber like winner or finalist. As I said, you have now had 18 winners and finalist. Only one has been less that 23 years and 11 months in age. What the hell makes AI think they can suddenly reverse this trend and get a 15 year old male winner. They probably have a better chance of getting an early 20’s female winner. At least we have seen such winners in the past. I don’t think that middle aged winner don’t support young women. I think Kelly, Carrie and Fantasia have quite a few older fans and they were all younger than David, Kris and Lee when they won.

  96. If you think about it, most Idol champs tend to be 20-25 years old when they win. The only two out of that loop are Taylor and Jordin.

  97. But things that are happening after the show and that are effecting radio play also has to do with the labels and not just with what the contestants sang on idol or if the contestant have a big voice or not. Making an album that is radio-friendly and the label choosing the right singles is also very important.
    I also agree with all who said that big voices are not a criteria to be a pop start this days. It might change in the future, but there are many people on the radio that are not singing well and that do not sound good live. Catchy songs are more important.
    I also agree that what is popular on the top 40 radio changes all the time and it’s not necessary smart in the long run to just try and find someone similar to the signers that are doing well on pop right now.

    I also think that the label should not be so hesitant to release song that the idols wrote or co-wrote, if the songs themselves are radio-friendly.

  98. How did Jordin win in Season 6? She was a wholesome, sometimes awkward 17 year old GIRL with a great voice who did not play an instrument and who had not released any albums prior to coming onto the show. She has had some major success on the pop charts. She would not have a chance today on AI. What changed after Season 6? Try to answer that question producers and you may have a solution to your problems.

    idk. But it seems to me that the world outside doesn’t care much for Jordin and can’t be bothered to invest much on her these days. So, well, I don’t think there’s a solution in there.

  99. There really are a lot of options for idol to find a real singer that can sell records.

    Yes. Maybe Idol will find the next Kelly or Carrie, great. Or maybe they’ll find the next WGWG superstar with a great voice. Heh.

    And Usher really sucked live on Idol.

    So did Alica Keys. But both can actually sing. They’ve sung live before and killed it on many occasions.

    Half the idols who come back to perform don’t sound as good live as they did as a contestant. I’ve always wondered what that was about. LOL

    I know, right? Don’t get it either… they need better sound people… ironic that the biggest TV show about music has such bad sound.

    OMG was a shit song though.

    It did well on radio, at clubs though.

    I think the show is just running its course. Kelly won Idol by singing really awesome karaoke versions old songs with cheesy backing tracks. A new Idol trying to become the “new Kelly” will probably have to sing Kelly’s songs better than Kelly, rearrange songs, be a dynamic performer and would still lose to a midwestern guy with a guitar.

    I don’t think Kelly never sounded karaoke though. Her voice, her phrasing, inflection… I think she always sounded like herself. Heh, I love her.

    Idol isn’t going to find a pop superstar because that is not the image they sell. A Ke$ha, Bruno Mars, Katy Perry, ect would never be cast on the show let alone be able to sell that type of image though the lens of the show with its limited song lists and theme weeks. Idol has a wholesome family friendly image, which is a complete departure from the sexy, hip, urban image many of the hot pop stars of today have.

    Heh, Bruno Mars just got busted for coke. Something like that’d go over great on Idol.

    Kris played guitar on less than half of his performances, yet someone like Scott played an instrument on most of his, except one, and I think the same is true for Matt.

    Definitely not true for Matt. Matt IMO had great stage presence. His falsetto was dicey way too often, but he was a good performer with and without piano. He’s probably the best dancer that’s ever made the Idol finals– he’s not that kind of artist, but honestly, he almost could if he wanted.

  100. I don’t think that middle aged winner don’t support young women. I think Kelly, Carrie and Fantasia have quite a few older fans and they were all younger than David, Kris and Lee when they won.

    These ladies won before the viewer demographics changed. It’s a small sample, but all we have to do is visit some of the fan sites of recent male contestants, and see that many of the posters on those sites have no intention of voting for a female contestant. Earlier this year, when internet boards were blowing up about the producers stacking the deck in favor of a female contestant, there was a lot of talk on these sites about how people were glad, because they didn’t want to get as invested in season 9 as they did in the previous two seasons. And I won’t even go into some of the things that have been thrown around about contestants who aren’t white.

  101. idk. But it seems to me that the world outside doesn’t care much for Jordin and can’t be bothered to invest much on her these days. So, well, I don’t think there’s a solution in there.

    If Idol wants artist who reflect what’s going on in music today, then no, someone like Jordin wouldn’t win on American Idol this season. I thought she was talented, but lacking personality and stage presence.

  102. So yeah, the DWTS so-called “controversy” is pissing me off. Boo hoo, Bruno gave someone a 3. They deserved it, they danced badly. So what if he was trying? He sucked. I wish the judges gave out MORE threes and fours. On Strictly Come Dancing (the UK predecessor to DWTS), one of the judges gives ones, twos and threes, yes to even nice people who try. Because their dancing deserved it. I’m so sick of this attitude, it seems very American to me, where everyone is a special snowflake and should get a gold star, just for showing up. Which outside of the Special Olympics…bzzzz, wrong. If you are being judged on something, than you should get what the work deserves. Not that your tried really hard, or were a nice person…while creating crap.

    Sorry, it’s a pet peeve.

  103. Chasing a trend doesn’t work with this show. It takes two years for a contestant to completely impact the music industry. Count the audition phase, the show, the tour, the recording process, then a year saturating the public who doesn’t watch this show with their presence and music. By that time what was popular two years ago is on it’s way out.

    The people who were popular on Top 40 four years ago are mostly different then those who are today. Four years from now they’ll be (mostly) different then what exists now. If the people at Idol were smart they’d try to identify what the trend will be 2 years from now and be positioned to take advantage of it. Forever chasing a trend that’s on the tail end of its popularity only makes Idol seem old or out of touch. If they can’t manage to be a trend setter, then they at least need to be able to recognize the new trend in its infancy so they can produce someone to take advantage of it while in the height of popularity.

  104. Agreed, Idol needs to BUILD a trend, not chase a trend. Kelly and Carrie were so successful because they opened new doors, not tried to copycat others.

  105. So yeah, the DWTS so-called “controversy” is pissing me off. Boo hoo, Bruno gave someone a 3. They deserved it, they danced badly. So what if he was trying? He sucked. I wish the judges gave out MORE threes and fours. On Strictly Come Dancing (the UK predecessor to DWTS), one of the judges gives ones, twos and threes, yes to even nice people who try. Because their dancing deserved it. I’m so sick of this attitude, it seems very American to me, where everyone is a special snowflake and should get a gold star, just for showing up. Which outside of the Special Olympics…bzzzz, wrong. If you are being judged on something, than you should get what the work deserves. Not that your tried really hard, or were a nice person…while creating crap.

    Sorry, it’s a pet peeve.

    I agree that giving a 3 is no big deal and it should be given when the performance sucks (and i think it sucked ..*smile*) but i think here what matters is how it was given. Could the judge be less crappy and insulting in the deliveery.. after all Micheal Bolton is not there because he wants a dance career. The judge is reacting like if it was the case and then comes out too harsh; it’s unpleasant in the circunstances

  106. Elliegrll:

    Earlier this year, when internet boards were blowing up about the producers stacking the deck in favor of a female contestant, there was a lot of talk on these sites about how people were glad, because they didn’t want to get as invested in season 9 as they did in the previous two seasons. And I won’t even go into some of the things that have been thrown around about contestants who aren’t white.

    Based on my lurking on DCO, I’d suspect that you have been selectively reading on the former assertion. There were as many people supporting Crystal as Lee or Casey last season and as many Cook fans didn’t like Lee as did. Yes, there were a few individual posters who may have said they couldn’t get invested in a female singer and fair enough, but they weren’t the majority of posters by a long way.

    As for the second claim about contestants who aren’t white: I haven’t seen that on either DCO or the wordnerd home. Admittedly, I don’t read every thread on either and I don’t read many other Cook boards or those of other recent male contestants.

    But what you’ve seen doesn’t tally with what I’ve seen, so that has me a bit puzzled…

  107. Could the judge be less crappy and insulting in the deliveery.. after all Micheal Bolton is not there because he wants a dance career.

    Michael Bolton was there for exposure, and in the end the “controversy” will probably help him.

    I find the entire episode highly entertaining. I have to admit that Bruno’s comments made me LOL. I didn’t feel sorry for Bolton because he’s not somebody going after a dance career.

    I’d feel more sorry if he were a kid for whom dance was their life. In that case, they’d need honesty, but also helpful constructive criticism.

    When it comes to DWTS, which is designed as pure entertainment, I figure all bets are off…

  108. I’m so sick of this attitude, it seems very American to me, where everyone is a special snowflake and should get a gold star, just for showing up.

    What!!! I’m not a special snowflake!?? :( So sad. I think you hurt my feelings. Bwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa This comment made my day. ITA AI judges can be just as bad sometimes.

  109. By the way, I think the problem with the female contestants in the last two series has been that, with two exceptions – Allison and Crystal – they just haven’t been that good. Even when they’ve had potential, like Sioban, they haven’t known what the hell to do with it.

    Crystal is and always will be a niche artist, that allowed Lee and his bagpipes – amazingly! – to sneak through the cracks and win.

    Allison was just too young and couldn’t win over the audience with her personality.

    Now, personally, as a nearly 40 year old woman, I would have been happy to see either of these two women win their years. So what does that say about the stereotypical middle aged woman?

  110. What happened after S6 when Jordin won? It was a pretty sucky season and the show was already six years old. Lots of younger fans turned off and the average viewer became a 40 year old women.

    The funniest part of the Bolton/Bruno thing was when the host said “Who knew we had a 3?” I guess no one has ever gotten that low a score on the show ;)

  111. What changed after Season 6?

    Casting and pimping. Season 6 was havily weighted toward strong female voices and really had no credible male contestants. Season 7 and season 8 were heavily weighted toward stronger male contestants, the male contestants received by far the most judge support, and it was no surprise that a guy won those years whatsoever. And that’s not just a WGWG thing either IMO, since in both those seasons the runner up was a male contestant who did not play guitar. Season 9 went off the rails for a whole variety of reasons, I really don’t think we can conclude much about the viability of female contestants from season 9. If the show chose to cast a strong slate of female contestants, and one of them was consistently pimped by the judges like Jordin was in season 6, my guess is they could get another female winner.

  112. If the people at Idol were smart they’d try to identify what the trend will be 2 years from now and be positioned to take advantage of it.

    EXACTLY. AI is always about chasing what is popular. Now they want the next Bieber. Unfortunately, AI is about two years too late for finding the next teen idol a la Bieber.

  113. Why do 40 plus year old women receive so much criticism? And why do people think that they are all the same?

    Are all 40 plus year old men identical in their likes and dislikes and deserving of group dismissal, on the basis of their gender and age?

    Is this true of any other group in society?

  114. So yeah, the DWTS so-called “controversy” is pissing me off. Boo hoo,

    I don’t have a problem with the low score but what Bruno said. Bruno is a loudmouth show-off who is the perfect example of a judge wanting the show to be about them, not the contestants. Notice the other competitors were disappointed with Bruno’s remarks and they also thought they were uncalled for. So did his fellow judges. Nope, just the low score and a few words like ‘that really was not good’ would have been enough. They’ve had lots of contestants on the show who had no dancing ability but I can’t recall any of them being treated so rudely. Bruno is getting too goofy for me and his remarks this past week were just too much.

  115. A look at the current crop of top pop singers who can really sing shows their average age to be about 29-31 years old, with the two exceptions being Gaga (24) and Bruno (24-25?). I’ve long felt that to be taken seriously AI needed to increase their age limit, not decrease it. I think both Jordan and David A could have really benefitted by waiting a couple of years. I felt the same way about Aaron Kelley. Just too soon. And I think their album sales prove the point. I think they’re all still finding their adult voices and it remains to be seen what they will be and therefore what their place will be in the music biz. Unless AI is shooting for the Jonas Bros/Miley Cyrus crowd (Miley Cyrus as mentor??), then I have to conclude that this reducing the age limit is moving backwards. I bet none of the current talented pop singers were much good before they hit their 20’s. Up to that point, kids are mostly about potential. They are still in the natural process of discovery – about themselves and the world – a component that is essential for a great singer.

    I do think there is a natural tension between putting on a great TV show and producing viable star singers. One doesn’t necessarily equate to the other. I can see how lowering the age range works for a TV show and building a greater intensity of support from the younger audiences. But will that translate into a vital musical career? The chances seem slim.

  116. I’m so sick of this attitude, it seems very American to me, where everyone is a special snowflake and should get a gold star

    My star is platnium dipped in glitter, thank you very much. ;-)

  117. fadetowhite, I didn’t point out any one board or any one fan group, so there is no need to take offense. There are also other male AI Alums, not just David Cook, and other message boards.

    Chasing a trend doesn’t work with this show. It takes two years for a contestant to completely impact the music industry. Count the audition phase, the show, the tour, the recording process, then a year saturating the public who doesn’t watch this show with their presence and music. By that time what was popular two years ago is on it’s way out.

    This is so true. It’s also why the show should go for diversity, instead of trying to find the next Gaga, Adam Lambert, Kris Allen, or whoever. The show is going to attract a diverse and young audience, by showing that anyone can win, even if they sing country, R&B, pop, pop/rock, or anything in between. There shouldn’t be an effort to exclude anyone, even the overly labeled singer/songwriter types. As far as these people succeeding after AI, that falls comes down to promotion and getting the right songs. Simon Fuller just does not want to admit that he doesn’t have a clue how to market these people so that they capitalize off of the AI fame, but more than that, so that they become established as artists, and not just tv stars.

  118. Why do 40 plus year old women receive so much criticism? [SNIP] Is this true of any other group in society?

    Yes there are. You will find the actions and tastes of the following also heavily mocked:

    – Tween Girls
    – Teen Girls
    – 30+ year old females (aka “Cougars”)
    – 50+ year old females (which will likely be called “Grannies” even if they are just 50)

    Based on statistics I have been gathering since Season 5, I believe that females qualify as “desirable” fans for a time period of approximately 3 months (sometime after graduating from college, but before they hit 25). Note: This only applies to fans that look like Katy Perry. All other women are never desirable fans.

    Men of all ages, sizes and appearances are always desirable fans (and are in fact coveted).

    Interestingly, these stats are collected from mainly female posters.

    I believe it is linked to the same trend that makes it “cool” for female babies to be given traditionally male names but abuse to give a male baby a traditionally female name. Or the fact that there is nothing wrong with dressing your daughter in blue pants, but sending your son to school in a pink dress would cause outrage. Male=Good. Female=Female.

  119. Oh, come on. I can’t be the only David Cook fan here excited about his participation in that charity celebrity/pro tennis tournament? Well, I am.

    Editing to add – Kirsten, love your post about the stereotyping. What a shock (NOT) that there is gender inequality here in the West as well as the rest of the world.

  120. As far as these people succeeding after AI, that falls comes down to promotion and getting the right songs. Simon Fuller just does not want to admit that he doesn’t have a clue how to market these people so that they capitalize off of the AI fame, but more than that, so that they become established as artists, and not just tv stars.

    I agree.

  121. A look at the current crop of top pop singers who can really sing shows their average age to be about 29-31 years old, with the two exceptions being Gaga (24) and Bruno (24-25?). I’ve long felt that to be taken seriously AI needed to increase their age limit, not decrease it. I think both Jordan and David A could have really benefitted by waiting a couple of years. I felt the same way about Aaron Kelley. Just too soon. And I think their album sales prove the point. I think they’re all still finding their adult voices and it remains to be seen what they will be and therefore what their place will be in the music biz. Unless AI is shooting for the Jonas Bros/Miley Cyrus crowd (Miley Cyrus as mentor??), then I have to conclude that this reducing the age limit is moving backwards. I bet none of the current talented pop singers were much good before they hit their 20’s. Up to that point, kids are mostly about potential. They are still in the natural process of discovery – about themselves and the world – a component that is essential for a great singer.

    I think you should first check when all those artists released their debut albums. Many popstars start in their late teens or early twenties. I think the lower age limit should stay 16, but the upper age limit should go down for a few years.

  122. Based on statistics I have been gathering since Season 5, I believe that females qualify as “desirable” fans for a time period of approximately 3 months (sometime after graduating from college, but before they hit 25). Note: This only applies to fans that look like Katy Perry. All other women are never desirable fans.

    Bwah, excellent summary Kirsten. You have nailed the double-standard to a tee.

  123. Oh, come on. I can’t be the only David Cook fan here excited about his participation in that charity celebrity/pro tennis tournament? Well, I am.

    I would prefer he have single or album news!

  124. I can’t be the only David Cook fan here excited about his participation in that charity celebrity/pro tennis tournament? Well, I am.

    Me, too! I just haven’t been able to get online long enough to comment on it ;) Smacked myself in the head with a pop up goal at soccer practice and still have a headache, lol.

  125. I would prefer he have single or album news!

    Heh, but we know *that’s* not coming, so might as well hang onto those Cookie crumbs :)

  126. I’m not putting down middle aged women. It’s just that since they became the main Idol demo no woman has won. Which isn’t good for the show because overall women in music are way more successful than males.

  127. I would love to vote for another Kelly. Bring it on! Wait, I’m not 40. If Idol makes it three more years, then I’m screwed. LOL

  128. fadetowhite, I didn’t point out any one board or any one fan group, so there is no need to take offense. There are also other male AI Alums, not just David Cook, and other message boards.

    That’s true, but honestly – are fans of Kris or Adam so much more uniform and stereotypical? I doubt it?

    And my later comments on the way that so many people put down and denigrate women, not only over the age of 40, but as Kristen points out, over the age of 30 even, weren’t only in response to you, but to a few other posts I have read too.

    Women make up half of the population and great strides have been made in the Western world towards equality in law, in the last 100 years. Yet it still seems to be OK for there to be an undercurrent of misogynistic dismissal when talking about women, especially women over the age of 30.

    Stereotyping is neither attractive, nor accurate and I really wish that people didn’t feel the need to indulge it. Criticise the individual; don’t claim that the individual represents the rest.

  129. I am always happy to hear anything about one Mr Cook, even WTF tennis events.

    But yes: bring on the album!

  130. Women make up half of the population and great strides have been made in the Western world towards equality in law, in the last 100 years. Yet it still seems to be OK for there to be an undercurrent of misogynistic dismissal when talking about women, especially women over the age of 30.

    Well said.

  131. Oh, come on. I can’t be the only David Cook fan here excited about his participation in that charity celebrity/pro tennis tournament? Well, I am.

    LOL, I am baffled, and as such, rendered speechless. Had no clue he played tennis… kinda worried actually, if he doesn’t play much. I would love to see him in a celebrity softball charity thing– see him play something he’s good at… I dunno, it’s generally a bad thing for my crushes when I see them do poorly in any sports =P. Okay, I’m weird. I’ll stop there. Of course, we probably won’t see any of it anyway, so this is probably moot…

  132. I don’t have a problem with the low score but what Bruno said. Bruno is a loudmouth show-off who is the perfect example of a judge wanting the show to be about them, not the contestants. Notice the other competitors were disappointed with Bruno’s remarks and they also thought they were uncalled for. So did his fellow judges. Nope, just the low score and a few words like ‘that really was not good’ would have been enough. They’ve had lots of contestants on the show who had no dancing ability but I can’t recall any of them being treated so rudely. Bruno is getting too goofy for me and his remarks this past week were just too much.

    I think Len was being a hypocrite, because he’s said plenty of cutting things. He just doesn’t say it as wackily (yes, I made that up). Same goes for Carrie Ann making some cutting remarks in her day. She’s known for making them more to the female contestants, than to the men. All the judges from the beginning of the show, have at times been scathing to contestants. And I didn’t think that what Bruno said was soooo bad or disrespectful. Certainly not out of line for that dance, or that personal/offensive to the contestant. And again, I’ve seen plenty of worse things said by Craig on SCD, so that Bruno and his typical Bruno-isms, doesn’t strike me as mean. Not to mention, Bruno just says wacky thing. Positive and negative. Part of the entertainment of the show. Again, that hasn’t changed from the beginning. So if the stars aren’t willing to put with that? Don’t come on. Not like anyone is forcing these guys on this show. Not like they are actually in the field of dance (well, Nicole aside) where what’s being said, is relevant to their actual career.

    Eh. I still think it’s a bunch of unnecessary whinging.

  133. I’m not putting down middle aged women. It’s just that since they became the main Idol demo no woman has won. Which isn’t good for the show because overall women in music are way more successful than males.

    I agree. The question is why the younger demo in the early years of Idol preferred the early 20’s female whereas the older demo of recent years prefers the mid-20s male. The other question is how/why the older demo became the dominant demo after Season 6 and if Idol is serious about getting a female winner, then rightly or wrongly, it has to somehow try to get the demo back to the way it was in the show’s early years.

  134. It doesn’t make someone a misogynist to acknowledge the fact that many of the most dedicated Idol fans are middled aged ladies (and teens) who are voting for their fantasy boyfriends.

    Well, I’d adjust that to say that some of the most vocal Idol fans on the internet and some of the least shy concert attendees of recent male idols fall into that category.

    But that doesn’t mean that this vocal group reflects the majority.

    Unfortunately, I do think that due to the fact that these small groups of fans are the ones who make themselves known in the most unavoidable way, they are the ones who get reported on and noticed the most, so that it almost becomes a mantra when talking about male contestants and their Idol fans. Clay and the Claymates; Cook and the cougars; Adam and the Sparklecows etc.

    But sometimes, you just need to think: what is the ratio of people who buy the music, to people who post on the net and/or attend concerts? And even in the latter group, there are sane, normal music fans!!!

    There has been a real effort, ever since season 2 of American Idol, to dismiss each and every successful male artist as the product of over active female hormones. Yet female winners are never the product of over active male hormones.

    Males have not only been succesful since season 6: the runner-up in Carrie’s season, Bo Bice, was a male; the winner and runner-up in season 2 were both male; the runner-up in season 6 was a male, ditto season 1.

    It just seems to me, that if a man wins the show then he is instantly dismissed as some ultimately talentless cougar totty. There’s a weird kind of reverse and just straight on sexism going on here.

    It certainly is true that the male winners of the show have not been pop artists and this may well help to explain why they haven’t conquered CHR in the same way that some female Idols have done.

  135. That’s true, but honestly – are fans of Kris or Adam so much more uniform and stereotypical? I doubt it?

    In my original post, I pointed out that this was based on a small sample of online fans, and even you admit that there people on DCO who said that they didn’t plan on getting as invested in any female contestants. BTW, once again, my post wasn’t about any one previous male contestants. I saw this sentiment on a few boards, and as someone who has always voted for who I liked the best, I just thought it was weird.

    The reluctance of the current demo to vote for someone who isn’t whte or male is not a new topic, or one that’s only been discussed on this board, and I will say that the conversation often fails to point out the level of talent of the entire top 24/36/10, but it is clear that many of the older female voters aren’t as open to voting for certain types of music, singers, of people who aren’t white males.

    In regards to older females being ignored as consumers, one of the reasons why younger viewers are wanted is because the older viewers aren’t as open to buying new products. I think the same is true when it comes to music. Older women don’t tend to buy a lot of new music, and they are going to be more reluctant to try out new music.

  136. I don’t think we need another Kelly or another Carrie. I think we need unique artist, who stand out for own their qualities, instead of being a clone of a former Idol. Kelly stood out because she was the first Idol and the first big star of the show. Carrie was the first big country star. Daughtry the first successful rocker. Adam was unique because of his stage presence, daring performances and vocal range. Look at all the ones I mentioned, none of them were fifteen year old kids who didn’t have a clue about who they were or what type of performer they wanted to be. They certainly didn’t need to be molded by the show, they just needed the platform to be noticed by a record company and get signed.

  137. In regards to older females being ignored as consumers, one of the reasons why younger viewers are wanted is because the older viewers aren’t as open to buying new products. I think the same is true when it comes to music. Older women don’t tend to buy a lot of new music, and they are going to be more reluctant to try out new music.

    Are there figures to back-up that claim?

    Seriously – I’m beginning to believe that I must be some strange human anomaly: or at least I would do, if I hadn’t spent my time on so many boards recently, where middle aged women had been active purchasers of new music.

    What I would certainly say, is that adults tend to have different tastes to teenagers and that adults tend to buy albums, where younger people tend to buy singles and are more likely to download without paying: the equivalent to recording songs off the radio when I was young.

    But that doesn’t mean that there is anything inherently wrong with either age group’s tastes in music. The younger age group will certainly dominate the singles chart and CHR, because they are the target audience in those cases. But one look at the albums charts especially in the UK, will show a far richer, wider and deeper appreciation of music, of many different types and genres and from different eras, including the modern one.

    I don’t know – maybe the UK is just more focused on the music!? Maybe that’s why I just don’t get it?

    ETA: the music industry would do well to take the breadth of the older age group’s musical interests into account, because, as I said above, it is they who are still purchasing albums.

  138. Kirsten :D

    Rock on Sistah.

    You speak the truth with such delightful snark.

  139. In regards to older females being ignored as consumers, one of the reasons why younger viewers are wanted is because the older viewers aren’t as open to buying new products. I think the same is true when it comes to music.

    I think people purchase music that represents how they currently feel. Women who are continually evolving, out in the world, and are up to date in current affairs, etc., are very likely to enjoy quite a bit of new music. It is the soundtrack to the world they live in.

  140. Here are the facts, I think:

    Idol started out as an all ages/gender/races TV sensation. It was incredibly strong in the desired 18-49 demo.

    Over the years, younger women and men have dropped off. Tweens are even receding. What’s left is older women viewers. That is a fact, we’ve been reading about it for years now. They are not all the viewers, of course, but now they are the majority.

    So as that segment of the Idol viewing population has risen, so has the reign of male winners/runners up. What we don’t know is whether or not it is a coincidence. But it certainly seems reasonable to speculate that the two things might be linked.

    Also, most touring acts currently getting radio play of any type have audiences that are all ages/genders (middle aged people do attend Gaga concerts, its true) but typically older women do not make up the majority of attendees. So of course it will raise eyebrows when Idol contestants have a huge chunk of older females in the audience. It is out of the norm for current music. Even if there are other age groups/genders present, older women will still be there in much bigger numbers than people are used to seeing for similar acts.

    If I had a label, and I knew that the majority of general music buyers were in a certain age group, and I knew that the majority of fans from a TV show would not be around for a second album, guess who I would be trying to attract more of?

    I think when it gets problematic is when the existing fans are treated as pariahs instead of looking at it as a need to grow a fanbase as opposed to replace it, if that makes any sense.

  141. I think people purchase music that represents how they currently feel. Women who are continually evolving, out in the world, and are up to date in current affairs, etc., are very likely to enjoy quite a bit of new music. It is the soundtrack to the world they live in.

    I don’t know if the facts don’t back this up, it’s one of the reasons why on average HAC artists don’t tend to move as many singles or albums as pop artists. It’s also why HAC playlists tend to include a lot of older music.

  142. If I had a label, and I knew that the majority of music buyers were in a certain age group, and I knew that the majority of fans from a TV show would not be around for a second album, guess who I would be trying to attract more of?

    I think when it gets problematic is when the existing fans are treated as pariahs instead of looking at it as a need to grow a fanbase as opposed to replace it, if that makes any sense.

    I think you hit the nail on the head. I recall an interview with either Cook or one of Cook’s album producers who stated that they wanted to make sure they had songs on the album that would appeal to Cook’s cougar audience. Was that the right thing to do? He did sell a lot of albums but he didn’t get a lot of Top 40 airplay.

    Adam’s has had more Top 40 airplay than Cook but has sold a lot less albums in the US. Yes, we have to take into account the overall drop on album sales, but still, I wonder if it was because Adam’s album was more pop/electronic than rock and it alientated some of his AI fans(plus we have to factor in the AMA’s and the album cover, which always makes any discussion on Adam’s album sales complicated).

    How did Archie’s fans feel about his first album? Was it a departure from what they expected he would put out based on his AI run? Would he have sold more if he and his producers made the album with his AI audience in mind? He sold less albums than Cook but had a big Top 40 hit.

    I think you bring up some good points tinawina.

  143. Wait a second. Cook is playing tennis? Lord have mercy.

    Seriously, IDK, if David plays, I know Andy used to play – he tweeted about it during the US Open, but WTF!Cook never said a word, Of Course.

    I know so little about sports that I had to look up if the US Open was tennis or golf, when David sang there. Maybe that’s when he made the connection to be invited, who knows? I am tennis-ignorant – *snerk @Myself* – but I get the feeling I’m going to learn.

    Looking into this, I found out some things that leave it open to possibilities, of the humorous sort, a la Tour Banter – and we know David can be funny as all hell – – but I also know how competitive David is – so it ought to be very interesting!

    This is what I picked up – The players are miked, and Chrissie Everet is quoted as saying “”we have some good tennis and some ugly tennis, but its always alot of fun”. They certainly raise a lot of money for charity – in any case.

    Kinda anticipating this, *chuckle* – Not only for the wardrobe. ;)

  144. If I had a label, and I knew that the majority of general music buyers were in a certain age group, and I knew that the majority of fans from a TV show would not be around for a second album, guess who I would be trying to attract more of?

    I think when it gets problematic is when the existing fans are treated as pariahs instead of looking at it as a need to grow a fanbase as opposed to replace it, if that makes any sense.

    The main problem might be whether or not the fans that an alum has because they were on AI fit the demo of the people who will like the music that the artist will be releasing. I think 19 has made the mistake of trying to cater to both the AI fans, and fans of whichever style fits the alum. While the AI fans shouldn’t be treated as Pariah’s, I think trying to cater to them, instead of producing an album that showcases an artist’s strengths, has hurt a lot of the male contestants, and hasn’t allowed them to establish who they are as artists.

  145. The problem is that current pop music does not play well on the Idol stage. It’s difficult to push Idols to pop radio because none of them are performing in the current pop music style. Even Adam, whose album and music taste fits most in the current pop genre didn’t do pop performances on the show because current pop music does not showcase vocals, and is therefore not that impressive as a live performance to most people, especially if there aren’t background dancers.

    Also, I don’t think there’s a general aversion to voting for a female contestant, I just think the best female contestants the last few years have been a little too polarizing. As great as I think Carly, Crystal, Allison, and Siobhan are, they did not have relatable personalities to the majority of Idol viewers, and personality matters in this competition and has since since Season 1.

    Bring back Kelly, Fantasia, Carrie, and Jordin type personalities and talent to the Idol stage and you might get a female winner again but like I said, I don’t think it would guarantee success because pop music is unfortunately heading in a different direction from Idol.

  146. I recall an interview with either Cook or one of Cook’s album producers who stated that they wanted to make sure they had songs on the album that would appeal to Cook’s cougar audience. Was that the right thing to do? He did sell a lot of albums but he didn’t get a lot of Top 40 airplay.

    The thing with Cookie is that Daughtry before him managed to put out an album that appealed to older women AND got lots of radio play. I think Cook’s problem was not the demo as much as radio started shifting during the summer Season 7 went on tour. That’s when Kissed A Girl and Just Dance became big hits, and Britney’s comeback started. By the fall dance pop was on its way to ruling the airwaves, by the time CBTM dropped it was game over. Really that whole cast was affected IMO. When season 7 was being cast pop/rock, teen acts, and singer songwriters were quite popular along with r&b crossover females. And that is pretty much what the top 24 that year reflected. But by the time their records dropped, the pop radio sound had already changed.

    Adam’s has had more Top 40 airplay than Cook but has sold a lot less albums in the US. Yes, we have to take into account the overall drop on album sales, but still, I wonder if it was because Adam’s album was more pop/electronic than rock and it alientated some of his AI fans(plus we have to factor in the AMA’s and the album cover, which always makes any discussion on Adam’s album sales complicated).

    I think all of that affected Adam. The shift away from Idol audience expectations, the AMAs, even the album cover to a lesser degree.

    I think Cook and Adam aren’t all that far away from each other album sales wise when you take out the Christmas sales, which I tend to think of as mainly Idol driven. On the first week of January Cookie had sold about 850K or so? So he sold another 400-450K over the course of the following year maybe? What had Adam sold on the first week of January? 450K or so? So he’s sold another 300K in the US thereabouts so far? Plus more internationally. These are rough estimates so I’m sure I’m off somewhat. And they both got more than one hit in the format that seems to be the natural home for the music they do. So I don’t know if the Idol fan thing affected their long term careers any differently.

  147. David Cook joins the 21st Annual Chris Evert / Raymond James Pro Celebrity Tennis Classic to take place Nov 5-7, 2010 in Boca Raton FL. Click HERE for tickets and more information.

    What does “joins” mean? Had a quick look at the website at the link and didn’t see Cookie featured there. Are they going to add him? Is he going to sing, play tennis, or simply grace the place with his lovely face?

  148. HappyDaisy – this is the link with the explanations – It’s Chrissie Evert’s Events Page. We don’t have any more explanation than is given there.

    Lots of curiosity, though – which is normal for WTF!Cook. *chuckle*

  149. Speaking of David, I had heard about two different times this week where apparently one of his songs was played before Carrie’s shows? Is this something new? In this case Declaration was the song. First I thought maybe just the venue was randomly playing it but evidently it was two different shows..That’s adorable!

    About the tennis thing, I wonder if he struck up some connections t the US Open and got talked into this hmm.

  150. Trina, I heard about “Declaration” – didn’t know there was another time – but that is sweet.

    I also considered whether being in NY for that extra day led to some connections in the Tennis World, and this invitation. Although when you see how much has been raised for Charity by the event – and hear about the spirit of fun that seems to pervade it, maybe it didn’t take much talking into? ;)

  151. Cook will definitely be participating in the tennis event. A fan got an answer back from a rep and it’s documented in this Twitlonger.

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/68tb3e

    It does seem like he’ll be playing and it’s a recent addition, so I’m assuming he made some connections at the US Open.

  152. The problem is that current pop music does not play well on the Idol stage. It’s difficult to push Idols to pop radio because none of them are performing in the current pop music style.

    I think this is the underlying point, well said.

    The Idol demo is now a HAC audience. I wouldn’t so much classify the last 3 winners so much as WGWG but more as those who were the best fit as HAC artists.

    I’ve also have a theory that in general CHR doesn’t view anything from an Idol as “fresh” beyond the lead single. Then again CHR doesn’t really take much of a look at any non lead single from artists who are not core CHR artists. Idol is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and making a few format tweaks and professing to find different contestants isn’t going to change this.

  153. I would guess that Cookie can play a pretty decent tennis game. It’s not uncommon in this part of the country for guys to play a little tennis in the summer. And besides, he has fanboyed over @JohnIsnerTennis in the past. http://www.johnisner.com/

  154. The problem with “older” women is that many of us have tended to stereotype ourselves and that stereotype becomes accepted in the real world as truth. We tend to hide our true selves behind layers of acceptable behavior, and that acceptable behavior is oftentimes viewed as boring and predictable by other segments of our society.

    I often feel sad that the girls I grew up with have grown into stale copies of their own mothers. And even though we still bake and consume those special brownies, and wear sexy underwear, and tell dirty stories and swear like a sailor, and watch a risque video or two we present ourselves as stodgy and dull and “cowish” and judgmental. We have our affairs in secret and condemn any other women who dare to fall in lust with someone other than her husband. We drink in solitude but act like booze is worse than Eve’s apple. As long as we are two-faced to the world in general we will be looked at as undesirables when it comes to fandom. We aren’t hep and with-it, we don’t understand what it is like to be horney and overtly sexy, we frown on revealing clothing and sexy moves. We are our own worst enemies and then we cry in our milk because nobody seems to want us. And I’m only speaking about the people I know and not all the women out there who aren’t anything like I’ve described.

  155. Mein Gott, that’s a bleak picture, Tess – IDK which generation you are referencing, but I think I would rather curl up and wither away than have lived like that. Scarier still – did they teach their daughters to follow the same pattern? Is this thing self-replicating? Geebus, I feel out of touch!

  156. I think Cook and Adam aren’t all that far away from each other album sales wise when you take out the Christmas sales, which I tend to think of as mainly Idol driven.

    Nah. I think it had far more to do with the fact that LO was actually charting on several stations by November, and the damn Rainbow was still everywhere. AL didn’t have WWFM really take for quite awhile, which was partially self-inflicted. So FYE’s “tail” was proportionately fatter than DCTR’s, because there was later pop radio play to sustain sales.

    But still, impression for impression, rock sells more albums than pop. Not really surprising that Cook moved more albums and Lambert moved more singles, regardless of one’s assessment of relative listenability.

  157. I think Cook and Adam aren’t all that far away from each other album sales wise when you take out the Christmas sales, which I tend to think of as mainly Idol driven. On the first week of January Cookie had sold about 850K or so? So he sold another 400-450K over the course of the following year maybe? What had Adam sold on the first week of January? 450K or so? So he’s sold another 300K in the US thereabouts so far? Plus more internationally. These are rough estimates so I’m sure I’m off somewhat.

    Adam has sold between 700 and 800K in the US. Cook has sold 1.3K. There is a big difference between those two numbers. Cook’s numbers are bigger because more people bought his album. Sales done in the holiday period still *count*, even if they are ‘Idol driven’.

  158. Woot! Glee’s Britney themed episode is their highest rating ever. And once again their covers dominated the itune chart. Buzz + visuals + less dated songs = easy sell.

  159. Woot! Glee’s Britney themed episode is their highest rating ever. And once again their covers dominated the itune chart. Buzz + visuals + less dated songs = easy sell.

    And yet still 6 million viewers short of the supposed worst season of idol ever.

  160. I went to the Pinktober event with Melissa Ethridge and Crystal Bowersox yesterday evening. It was so much fun. The Hard Rock Cafe in Hollywood, is a very small place, possibly 300 ppl or so and very hot in there. It had a great energy though! Melissa said her daughters love Mamasox. Melissa and Crystal sang a duet together, “We Run For Life” (not sure about the title), that was very cool. Crystal played her Harmonica for Melissa for “Come to my window” -YAY! WHile most ppl where there for Melissa, quite a few came for Crystal as well. Everbody loved her little set, and the new song was awesome. I enjoyed the evening very much. :)

  161. Adam has sold between 700 and 800K in the US. Cook has sold 1.3K. There is a big difference between those two numbers. Cook’s numbers are bigger because more people bought his album. Sales done in the holiday period still *count*, even if they are ‘Idol driven’.

    Hmm. Okay full disclosure time. 1. I like Adam Lambert and I love Cookie. 2. I do not give a crap who sold more than whom. LOL

    My post was in response to the idea that Cookie suffered for catering too much to his idol fans, who skew presumably older and female. It was speculated that it cost him a huge pop hit. All I am saying is that I don’t think the pop hit was in the cards because pop radio had moved away from rock by the time he released. Could he have charted higher with a different song? Maybe. But a Daughtry like run was never in the cards, at that point HAC was destined to be his homebase. No matter what kind of pop rock album he put out.

    Of course he sold a lot of albums, and all sales count. But honestly, while I’m sure his christmas sales were boosted by the performance of TOML and Light On, I doubt they were boosted to the tune of 850K. So again, when looking to see if his Idol fans had a long term negative effect that is significantly different from Lambert or any other male Idol that had more pop success (like Archie or Kris), I would say no. He still went on to chart well in HAC – the current home of pop rockers – and sold another 400-450K albums. And toured successfully. I don’t think it made a difference. If anything it helped.

    The Idol demo is now a HAC audience.

    This is probably true but I don’t think we can know for sure. People in their 30s and 40s (the HAC target demo) do listen to pop radio to a lesser degree. If it were a random sample we could assume, but the Idol audience is not a random sample, it is self selecting and may be skewed toward current music listeners. I’m not sure I am saying that right. LOL. But we can’t really know without proper research of the Idol audience.

  162. Woot! Glee’s Britney themed episode is their highest rating ever. And once again their covers dominated the itune chart. Buzz + visuals + less dated songs = easy sell.

    I don’t get the excitement about the Glee songs because they aren’t enduring. It’s ephemeral like cotton candy, after it’s gone all you have left is sticky fingers. They are like little momentos. I mean it’s a nice little added treat for the shows fans, but pretty much like idol voting. Will they stand alone without the show?

  163. IMO, AI first needs to get back to finding real talent, amateurs who the voting public can get invested in and not feel they are ringers with unfair advantage.

    Maybe that’s why they are including 15 year olds- very raw talent.

    One big turnoff to people I know who quit watching AI was all the producer-judge manipulation.

    I agree- they need to refocus on the contestants

    If its a contest, quit trying to rig it and let the voters pick the winners. Otherwise, quit pretending and let the judges pick. I would love to hear them sing full songs. Hard to tell really what they can do in snippets.

    Yep they are trying to have it both ways .
    One thing I’ve never liked about idol is the short versions of songs- works for some songs but not others . When Michael Johns was voted off for Dream On- even though I liked his version- it was a bit truncated but when he sang it on tour it showed what a build up that songs has – it worked much more successfully!!

    So my ideal would be to have full or longer versions of songs & quick to the point judging & less rambling!! Not too much to ask is it?

  164. Sounds like a fun evening, GreenHippo!
    I, too, am intersted as to what David Cook will be doing at this tennis event.
    I won’t even get started on the age-and-music thing. All I know is
    that I listen to what I like, regardless of the age of the artist. I’m the same “type” of person at 44 as I was at 34 or even 24.
    Should my taste in music suddenly change now that I am older? Should I listen to something more “appropriate” to my particular age, even though I have been listening to rock music and it’s sub-genres since I was about 4? If so, I wish someone would enlighten me as to exactly what it is I should be listening to.

  165. Should my taste in music suddenly change now that I am older?

    Obviously you missed the memo.

  166. There’s still no word of what David will be doing at the tennis charity, but there has been confirmation that he is involved and that the web sites will be updated with more details by the end of the week, per the communication below:

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/68tb3e

  167. Esqt:
    09/29/2010 at 7:39 pm
    Woot! Glee’s Britney themed episode is their highest rating ever. And once again their covers dominated the itune chart. Buzz + visuals + less dated songs = easy sell.

    Hmmm, it’s worth noting that the most faithful, Britney-esque Glee covers from the Britney episode are the lowest selling ones. And that Toxic specifically is number one on iTunes with Matthew Morrison singing lead. Matthew Morrison, who is my age, and a cute guy. And that highest selling Glee songs from this week feature the stronger singers on the show, and one is a Paramore cover. Go figure. It appears that people like to hear good singers sing fresh, new covers, with the caveat that repeating the same list of 50 moldy songs season after season is a huge buzzkill. But yeah, AI, the key to saving your show is to build yourself a manufactured pop star.

    So as that segment of the Idol viewing population has risen, so has the reign of male winners/runners up. What we don’t know is whether or not it is a coincidence. But it certainly seems reasonable to speculate that the two things might be linked.

    Well, here’s my hypothesis: AI has traditionally perpetuated the idea that males who have done well on the show were riding the mythical horny fangirl wave of popularity that had as much to do with their hottie factor as it did with their talent. (The nutters waving their flat whoevers certainly feed into that whole thing.) The chicks more often had the casual vote and the guys had the fanbases that were sometimes but not always big enough to win. However, starting a little bit with Bo and then being fueled by Daughtry’s success and coming on full force with Cook/Archie season, the guys were viewed with a wee bit more respect and maybe that helped them appeal to more of the casual viewers. Just a wee bit, because it’s still AI, of course. AI even pimped the Cook blueprint for an AI win a bit in season 8 and 9 which was different than the old blueprint. So maybe not shocking that the winners and runners up post Cook, then, have largely been males. I don’t think it’s just age of the fanbase, but also the shift in the attitude of the show that made it, I dunno, seem a teensy tiny bit cooler to dig a male singer on AI, coupled with the casting that favored the guys. Will be interesting to see what happens this season because the cute guy/horny fangirl stigma never really died completely and Lee’s win kind of stirred that pot back up. Sometimes it’s like Cook and Kris and Adam’s storylines are being rewritten in retrospect by pop culture. We need moar Kellys and Carries! The dreaded fangirl voting block must be stopped! Will that trend hold throughout the season giving us another female winner? Dum dum dum. We’ll see.

  168. There’s also confirmation that some fans are nutjobs who think being demanding and rude to organizers of the event is an appropriate way to express enthusiasm about an appearance.

    Seriously, “If he’s going to be there, why isn’t he on the website yet” is fucking obnoxious.

    GH, thanks for letting me know that fans can still be chill and appropriately enthused at events. It sounded like a lovely evening.

  169. People in their 30s and 40s (the HAC target demo) do listen to pop radio to a lesser degree.

    I know that fits me. I mostly listen to HAC but will flip over to Top 40 in small doses. Of course around here with 99.5 playing the same songs over and over, that small dose covers their whole playlist! Of course, the other side of that is the four albums I just bought aren’t what I’m hearing on those small doses of Top 40 (Ray Lamontagne, Florence + the Machine, Black Keys, Jack Johnson – got a Amazon gift certificate from my mom and YAY for being able to greedily buy for myself without feeling guilty ’cause I should be buying my kid pants instead haha). Top 40 stuff *generally* works for me only as singles (have bought several lately, mostly rhythmic stuff for working out and driving), though I did pick up the B.O.B. album once I liked enough songs, so I guess sometimes I’ll buy the whole thing. Maybe if I had more disposable income… right now $$ is tight so for me to buy a whole album I better like pretty much all of it (and for once in my life I’m streaming them/finding them on YouTube first for exactly that reason – my $$ is precious).

    There’s also confirmation that some fans are nutjobs who think being demanding and rude to organizers of the event is an appropriate way to express enthusiasm about an appearance.

    Appalling, isn’t it? I don’t get the entitled bullshit that some of these people spew out. It makes me think that I should stay the hell off Twitter, it’s depressing.

  170. Standtotheright, ew, I so wish you weren’t referring to what I think you’re referring to, cuz seriously? Sigh.

  171. Sunchick- honestly, except for Bo, and perhaps Daughtry, I can’t remember there being ANY hot guys on the show for the first six seasons.Well, Blake can have a few points, I guess.
    Starting with Season 7, there have been so many to chose from!If Nigel stops casting them and presents us with an abundance of underage would-be pop stars, the dreaded female fanblock may stop watching altogether.I don’t think Nigel can attract enough new viewers to this aging show to make up the difference.

  172. What a great gig for Jennifer Hudson for the Mark Twain Humor Award for Tina Fey. Does anyone know if this will be on TV at all? TIA. :D

  173. LOL artemis. Clearly, if they didn’t want a male winner, they wouldn’t have cast Cookie, MJ, Castro and Archie in the same season. Not to mention Luke Menard. Don’t blame the fangirls, people. They are but poor pawns.

  174. Clearly, if they didn’t want a male winner, they wouldn’t have cast Cookie, MJ, Castro and Archie in the same season.

    Haha, no kidding. And they were really pushing MJ & Archie from the beginning. I still think Season 7 was just a ridiculously attractive bunch of people, guys and girls.

  175. Yeah, MJ and Archie are very good looking, but the minute David Cook announced he was a word nerd, he revived my long dormant fangirl heart.

  176. Mein Gott, that’s a bleak picture, Tess – IDK which generation you are referencing, but I think I would rather curl up and wither away than have lived like that.

    I’m middle-aged, and I don’t know anybody like that. lol.

  177. I’m middle-aged, and I don’t know anybody like that. lol.

    Yeah, I really don’t either. I guess I should be grateful!

  178. The thing is, whoever who has won in the past has their own fanbase and for whatever reason, people voted for them that year. And I really understand that they do need a different type to win this year. But it is not necessary for them to be negative about previous contestants.

    ANd to me, it isn’t if a contestant is male or female, it’s if I feel they have shown creativity in their covers.

  179. I am older than middle-aged and I don’t know anyone like that. My music tastes are varied. This week, I admitted to watching Sesame Street every day. When Siobhan Magnus goes on tour, I’ll be attending her concert. I am a long-time member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and my music tastes are covered.

  180. Sunchick- honestly, except for Bo, and perhaps Daughtry, I can’t remember there being ANY hot guys on the show for the first six seasons.Well, Blake can have a few points, I guess.

    Ace?

  181. sr4mjc:
    09/30/2010 at 8:47 am

    Sunchick- honestly, except for Bo, and perhaps Daughtry, I can’t remember there being ANY hot guys on the show for the first six seasons.Well, Blake can have a few points, I guess.

    Ace?

    Yep…

    And the thing is if we were going just on that, I liked Ace better, and Michael Johns in S7. But it was Daughtry and David Cook that I really became fans of afterward. Though I did buy MJ’s cd too.

  182. OK, forgot about Ace. But the first six season’s guys were more in the hotness range of John Stevens and Chicken Little.If Nigel wants a woman to win, he’ll have to cast more guys like them.

  183. Clearly, if they didn’t want a male winner, they wouldn’t have cast Cookie, MJ, Castro and Archie in the same season.

    Though to be honest, based on his looks at the start of the competition, I don’t think anyone would have ever thought of casting Cookie (even in part) because of his looks. *shudders at memory of Audition Fauxhawk and Hollywood Pouf*

  184. Though to be honest, based on his looks at the start of the competition, I don’t think anyone would have ever thought of casting Cookie (even in part) because of his looks.

    Hahaha, I was going to say that, too — I don’t think dear David was initially cast as a hottie. Because he was not a hottie, at all, when the season started, at least not for me. And Castro might be cute but he was cannon fodder so they didn’t expect him to stay long. But Archie & MJ definitely were pimp-ees at the beginning. And I’m sure they were just fine with Cook turning out to be handsome underneath that horrible “Happy Together” flat ironed hot mess of a hairdo. Hee. .

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