Hits Daily Double: Susan Boyle is Still #1

The Hits Daily Double sales numbers are in.

The frumpy UK cat lady is still kicking some major ass. Unbelievable. Carrie Underwood got a nice bounce from last week’s Christmas special. The new Glee collection debuts at #3, and Adam Lambert is holding steady–dropping 10 percent this week.

Kris Allen’s and Allison Iraheta’s did not move enough albums to make the Hits Top 50 chart.

Again, remember, these numbers are a good indicator of what the official Nielsen Soundscan numbers will look like when they are released tomorrow:

1. 1. Susan Boyle – I Dreamed a Dream – 582, 724 +14%
2. 2. Andrea Bolcelli – My Christmas – 391, 686 -10%
— 3. GLEE Vol 2 – Soundtrack – 171, 580
3. 4. Taylor Swift – Fearless – 165, 311 +27%
9. 5. Carrie Underwood – Play On – 110, 352 +46%
— 6. Chris Brown – Graffiti – 102, 489
7. 7. Lady Gaga – Fame – 102, 108 +29%
12. 8. Justin Bieber – My World – 101, 256 +56%
8. 9. Michael Buble – Crazy Love – 92, 174 +19%
23. 10 Glee, Vol. 1 – Soundtrack – 89, 905 +107%

21. 30. Adam Lambert – For Your Entertainment – 45, 825 -10%
33. 49. David Archuleta – Christmas From the Heart – 29, 639 -17%

About mj santilli 33689 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

226 Comments

  1. Wow, so happy and proud of Adam. Only a 10 percent drop from last week, and some people were predicting a lot more. He’s almost to 300,00 album sells, he’s doing really well.

  2. Wonder what headline we will see this week from Brian Mansfield. I can start guessing but I am quite positive it won’t include the idols that didn’t make the list at all.

  3. The UK still can’t buy from the store. They need to get on that already.

    Almost 300K in less than 3 weeks with hardly any promotion (I could have done better promotion on my computer at home), but cool.

    It’s nice to see artists like Gaga and Adam in the charts amongst all that generic shiiiiiii

  4. Wow SO impressive for Carrie. I loved her and J. Hudsons Christmas specials. Also WTG Susan Boyle!! That girl is selling like crazy even though I can’t find ONE person that even wants to buy it. Maybe thats what I could get my grandparents for Christmas lol

    Not that bad of a drop for Adam! If WWFM takes off, he could be selling steady like this for a while. Too bad about Kris and Allison. More people need to hear songs on Kris’ album because his single is the worst one imo. That really is a good CD. Don’t like Alli’s album that much except for Holiday, but i can see her becoming HUGE someday.

  5. 12 8 JUSTIN BIEBER ISLAND/IDJMG 101,256 +56%
    MY WORLD

    This little brat is turning into another chart monster.

    I assume the no promotion comment (If it was about Adam) was a joke. If I remember last week he was featured on Baba Wawa’s Most Fascinating Special with a folow up on The View. That isn’t exactly no promotion although it is true he wasn’t on TV every day. ;)

  6. 12. 8. Justin Bieber ‘“ My World ‘“ 101,256 +56%

    This kid isn’t doing bad at all.

    Adam’s album didn’t have a big decrease, but I think the market is inscreasing this week, right?

  7. Does anybody know how many in total sales does Adam need in order to hit gold?

  8. Billboard will analyze sales tomorrow and say what % they went up or down. Overall the top 50 on HDD are showing some nice plus signs so it is possible that album sales went up this week.

    Albums in the US need to sell 500K to go gold. Other countries have different criteria.

  9. Man, Susan Boyle is a monster! I’m in awe of her sales.

    This reminds me of the singing nun, Jeanine Deckers. I suspect there are some here old enough to remember that phenom.

    Her sales were through the roof, beating out the Beatles. I was a child and received her album for Christmas. Radio played ‘Dominique-nique-nique’ to death.

    This thought made me wonder what ever happened to her. I found this sad tale of how her fame played out.

    http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/97930

  10. Does anyone know the cumulative sales for FYE? Has it hit 300k?

    I think he is just shy of it. By the way, here’s your daily local Target update. :) Adam’s CD was completely sold out. SuBo had a couple of left, Kris and Allison had about 6 each. The displays were a mess. Adam had his own tab in the pop/rock section. Allison and Kris were over on another shelf which was labeled as popular along with SUBO. Neither SuBo, Allison or Kris had a tab with their name on it, but Adam didn’t have a place on the popular shelf.

  11. Well Adam isn’t being helped by the normal bump that lots of artists are getting from this being a big shopping day per year, so that’s not good. But at least his drop was small.

    I wonder what Kris’s and Allison’s sales will be? Worried most about Allison.

  12. Allison is going to have a pretty big drop. If you look at HDD, most of the albums showing big drops are in their second week of release.

  13. I’m so happy for Adam, the predictions were 30000 copies so I wasn’t expecting this!!!! Excellent news!

    :)

  14. For those who might be interested in who will be the Christmas #1 in UK, here’s a site that tracks downloads –

    http://www.livehits.co.uk/top300.php

    Currently Joe is falling behind at #3, with Rage Against The Machine at #1. Note that this site doesn’t track physical single sales, so Joe’s should do better once they go on sale tomorrow.

  15. I am very happy about Adam’s sales last week. Way to go BB.

    Hopefully performing on the finale of SYTYCD tomorrow night is good for continued sales in this margin. He CD is being bought by people outside of the Idol bubble.

  16. Well Adam isn’t being helped by the normal bump that lots of artists are getting from this being a big shopping day per year, so that’s not good. But at least his drop was small.

    It’s kind of a mixed bag on the chart. John Mayer is down 7 percent and Rhiana is down 6 percent but then Lady GaGa is up 18 percent. Alvin and the Chipmunks are up 3 percent.

  17. So happy for Alvin and the Chipmunks! They are oldies in the group! Been around as long as I can remember! Glad to see they can still pull ’em in. Definitely have some longevity there!

  18. Very happy about Adam’s steady sales! I promised myself to be happy with at least 30K, so happy he sold 45K! Go Adam!!!

    And since I’m bipolar, on the other hand, really sad that neither Kris nor Allison made top 50. LLDW is doing well on radio, so I don’t understand why Kris is not selling well.

  19. Just want to point out that R.Kelly has a 71% drop. Yes R.Kelly the multi platinum artist. His Sales drop is going to be comparatively about the same as Adam and he had a much less starting point. Like to see all the spins on why he is able to plunge that much on a upswing sales week and also being and established artist. Just an observation.

  20. Overall on HDD 38 albums either gained or showed no change at all in sales. So I think the week will show a % increases. Even the decreases were pretty mild. The only album that really slid of R Kelly. No one else did that badly or even came closely.

    R. Kelly’s album got pretty bad reviews and he has no hit single on the charts as far as I know. He also has legal issues but I’m not sure if they’re affecting his sales. But a drop that big before Xmas portends that R Kelly’s album will be a flop unless he has some big hit to reverse the situation.

  21. Thrilled Adam only dropped 10 percent. I was hoping for anything
    around 40,000. I’m so happy.

  22. I assume the no promotion comment (If it was about Adam) was a joke. If I remember last week he was featured on Baba Wawa’s Most Fascinating Special with a folow up on The View.

    Ellen, The Early Show, Letterman, closing the AMA’s, the SYTYCD finale, Oprah, multiple magazine covers, a song featured in a blockbuster movie, album ad posters plastered all over NYC..yep poor Adam is severely underexposed.

  23. R. Kelly’s album got pretty bad reviews and he has no hit single on the charts as far as I know. He also has legal issues but I’m not sure if they’re affecting his sales.

    He is also a sleezeball…

  24. susan Boyle is a monster hit. who can dethrone subo?. any major artist releasing an album next week?. good for Adam .I feel for allison the most cos her album is good. she’s done ellen, what other tv promo’s does she have?. she needs to sing scars on TV.

  25. The chart this week reflects the holiday buying season for me. SuBo, the Christmas gift everyone is going to find in their stocking, then lots of Christmas CDs, Teeny/tween Artists like Taylor and Bieber and Miley who are being bought as presents, Twilight soundtrack and Glee for those peeps invested in the shows, a scattering of new releases, and then GaGa (the IT record for the year), MJ for nostalgia, Buble for all the Moms on the list, and then we have a few albums selling to people who are listening to music and not gifting it.

    And for the time of year I don’t think any of the sells are real stellar. Next week should be better because it will be the stocking stuffer gift and the last week of December is gift card redemption week. And then…..oh well.

  26. susan Boyle is a monster hit. who can dethrone subo?.

    Alicia Keys may have a shot, but it’s going to be tough. Susan Boyle is a freak of nature on the music scene. But she doesn’t surprise me as much as Justin Bieber. That kid can’t sing for s***, but sells like hot cakes. Tweeners can’t have this bad of taste–do they? He’s not even that cute, at least the JoBros had that going for them. Fetus with hair, indeed.

  27. I am beyond amazed at Susan Boyle’s sales. Amazing. I might have to take a listen.

    Yay for Adam! I thought I had read somewhere his sales would be lower so it was a nice surprise. Hopefully his SYTYCD performance tomorrow gives him a really nice boost.

  28. I’m kind of surprised that Archie dropped 17%. Didn’t he have some nice promo on ET last week? I have noticed that his album doesn’t seem to be front and center on the racks in the stores. Bocelli is always in a prominent spot and even Josh Groban’s album from 2 years ago is out in front, but Archie always seems to be on the bottom shelf. I’m not really sure why.

  29. Alicia Keys may have a shot, but it’s going to be tough. Susan Boyle is a freak of nature on the music scene.

    SuBo is the “Tickle Me Elmo” or “Cabbage Patch Kid” of this holiday season.

  30. SuBo is the ‘Tickle Me Elmo’  or ‘Cabbage Patch Kid’  of this holiday season.

    LOL!

  31. SuBo is the ‘Tickle Me Elmo’  or ‘Cabbage Patch Kid’  of this holiday season.

    And Justin Bieber is the Teddy Ruxpin/Furby fetus of horror, ha!

  32. Everyone talks about Susan Boyle, but look at Taylor Swift’s album. It has been out for over a year and she still sold over $165,000 albums this week. Amazing! I think the whole world must own this by now. How many has she sold?

  33. Happy to see Adam still holding his own in sales. And nice to see Archie charting in the top 50 too. (:

    One thing, though. What the f Susan Boyle? I really do not see her appeal, and I mean, I know she had an amazing story, but really? Her numbers are more than slightly ridiculous.

  34. Everyone talks about Susan Boyle, but look at Taylor Swift’s album. It has been out for over a year and she still sold over $165,000 albums this week.

    I don’t own Swift’s album, but I can see why lots of people would like it, especially girls. She seems like a normal teen and sings about things teens worry about. I’m glad she is selling better than Miley as I think she is a talented songwriter.

  35. Just want to point out that R.Kelly has a 71% drop. Yes R.Kelly the multi platinum artist. His Sales drop is going to be comparatively about the same as Adam and he had a much less starting point. Like to see all the spins on why he is able to plunge that much on a upswing sales week and also being and established artist. Just an observation.

    Artists gets to establish themselves, and then suck. Not the other way around.

  36. I think Carrie has a good chance at being platinum by year’s end and if not then in early January even with the declining sales by then.

    Just wow at SuBo!

  37. Artists gets to establish themselves, and then suck. Not the other way around.

    Not always…many artists have modest success with album no. 1 and then have a big hit with album no. 2…

  38. Besides being #1 for 3 consecutive weeks, SuBo will sell at least 1.8 mil in 3 weeks in US alone. AMAZING!!!

  39. I went shopping this morning, and Susan Boyle’s CD was on display in the check-out line at EVERY store I was at. And only one was a “music related” store. Talk about great marketing.

  40. I don’t own Swift’s album, but I can see why lots of people would like it, especially girls

    All of my nieces and little girl cousins ages 8-12 are All about Taylor Swift…they love her, are begging their parents for concert tickets and play her albums all the time

  41. Pam
    12/15/2009 at 5:40 pm

    I think Carrie has a good chance at being platinum by year’s end and if not then in early January even with the declining sales by then.

    Just wow at SuBo!

    I think Carrie will definitely be Platinum before the years is out. :-)

  42. R Kelly dropping so much is a sign that his album is flopping. That’s the spin. I don’t know if he also sucks. He’s super sleazy though.

    And SuBo is only 880K albums behind Taylor in claiming album of the year for sales. Scarily enough, that means she has a decent shot at it.

  43. I don’t know how anyone can beat SuBo since her album is everywhere! I just saw a rack of her CD’s on the customer service counter at my local supermarket.

  44. R. Kelly has been teetering on becoming a has-been for a while. He’s talented, but also disgusting and possibly crazy. It just took some time for everyone to give up on his ever seeming somewhat normal again.

  45. Question, because I am just curious. What if someone like me who doesn’t want SuBo’s CD winds up with it in her stocking? If I exchange it, will it count as a sale for someone I would really like to have a * cough * Allison * cough * CD from? Or another FYE?

  46. Chicagolaw
    12/15/2009 at 5:44 pm
    I went shopping this morning, and Susan Boyle’s CD was on display in the check-out line at EVERY store I was at. And only one was a ‘music related’  store. Talk about great marketing.

    That’s probably because every stores want to sell her CDs and which store doesn’t want to stock up on something that’s selling like a hot cake?

  47. I don’t know how anyone can beat SuBo since her album is everywhere! I just saw a rack of her CD’s on the customer service counter at my local supermarket.

    ITA-She is everywhere and ANDREA BOCELLI is being sold at my local Starbucks. I do think this helps in regards to “impluse” buying. I don’t know about other folks, but I give a lot of Starbuck gift cards for XMAS because I’m lazy. And now I’m thinking, why not throw a little Bocelli in with that latte?

  48. I’m really happy with Adam’s numbers! I was prepared for lower sales.

  49. I didn’t say Adam sucked. I’m merely pointing out that if a huge superstar has been doing reasonably well for more than a decade and then puts out an album that doesn’t do so well, the world isn’t going to come to a halt — even though you suggest that it should. R. Kelly’s decade-plus of album sales and hits won’t be invalidated by a sharp 2nd week drop on his latest album.

    The bar seems to be so low for Adam after all of these predictions of him becoming the “next best thing.” Now, doing just as mediocre as the next guy seems to suffice.

  50. Good for Adam hanging in there!

    Now who the hell is buying all those Susan Boyle CD’s? This is getting ridiculous.

  51. I’m kind of surprised that Archie dropped 17%.

    ANDREA BOCELLI -10%
    JOSH GROBAN +11%
    CASTING CROWNS -26%
    STING -6%
    TAYLOR SWIFT (HOLIDAY EDITION)-3%
    TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA (NIGHT CASTLE) 0%
    SUGARLAND -8%
    STRAIGHT NO CHASER — (OFF CHART LW)
    MANNHEIM STEAMROLLER +16%
    MICHAEL BUBLE -16%
    DAVID ARCHULETA -17%
    TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA (LOST XMAS EVE) +15%

    It looks to me that you had a few gainers from prior year big sellers, but otherwise there were a lot of slides on the holiday front.

    I think Archie will be fine. Assuming an uptick next week, since it’s a bigger sales week, he should pull over 180K. And for the final Christmas week, he’ll probably get past 200K. And it’s a perennial seller that they can bring out again next season, when he’ll have (presumably) released another pop album to keep him in the public consciousness. I’m quite sure it will make a nice little profit when all is said and done.

  52. So much better on Adams sales than I was expecting. Too bad Kris didnt see a bounce from SYTYCD. I assume we wont see one for Adam. When is Kris on Letterman? Weird how Adam “seems” to be everywhere but I think Kris has been on a bunch of shows himself (Regis, Bonny, SYTYCD).

  53. #7 Atlanta market just added WWFM!! yay!

    I second that cheer!

  54. Kris has two more Top 40 adds in Columbia, SC and Rochester–5 in all today.

  55. The bar seems to be so low for Adam after all of these predictions of him becoming the ‘next best thing.’  Now, doing just as mediocre as the next guy seems to suffice.

    First off my bad for misunderstanding your first post. On this I think the bar is still to high for Adam for someone who is a new artist breaking into a sect of the pop genre that is exclusively populated by female artist. Hype for anyone is just that hype not reality. Fans or media saying over the top remarks is a reflection of them not the artist and what is actually reality. Besides Susan Boyle what other New Artist has done as well. Adam has the 2nd highest debut of any new artist this year and if I was a new artist I would be frigging thrilled with his numbers. I wouldn’t call them mediocre but that is just me. The next best thing had no time stamp put on it. That could still happen even if it is 5 years from now. Again sorry for misunderstanding your tone in your first comment, it was just the question on how I asked it the way you answered sort of lead me to believe what I did. :-)

  56. ok so adam had 20 adds this week..#13 added for the week!!

    austin, sacramenton, atlanta, boston, gainesville, biloxi(ms! hehe), san francisco, grand rapids, among others!! big markets:)

  57. Ouch at Adam dropping 2 weeks before Christmas amid insane hype.

    Ouch at Kris falling out of the top 50.

    Just bad news all round for this year’s Idols. I’m sure Simon is consoled by Susan Boyle though. That woman is a sales machine.

  58. ok so adam had 20 adds this week

    I count 22 — 19 top 40/3 hac…3 of the adds were in canada (I grew up in maine and we border people count canada!)

  59. I don’t own Swift’s album, but I can see why lots of people would like it, especially girls. She seems like a normal teen and sings about things teens worry about.

    My “almost 50 year old” husband LOVES Taylor Swift – she’s his favorite – so it’s not just teenage girls who love her.

    I think SuBo has become the world’s favorite “rags to riches” story, which is very heartwarming and relevant in today’s economic state. I don’t have her CD and don’t plan to buy it, but I certainly was one of those millions of amazed people who clicked on the you tube videos of her try-out and smiled as I watched Simon’s jaw drop.

  60. I know I’m fighting a losing battle with the adds but it makes more sense to stick with monitored adds in the U.S. Those are the only stations that will propel WWFM (or any song) up the charts. So Adam got 16 Top 40 adds which is an excellent week.

    So far Kris, Adam and Danny are all being accepted on radio. So if album sales are kinda meh for S8 it’s not because radio is turning its back on them as it has on past Idols. The only exception is Allison who probably needs Jive to put out a different single.

  61. “The bar seems to be so low for Adam after all of these predictions of him becoming the ‘next best thing.’  Now, doing just as mediocre as the next guy seems to suffice.”

    300,000 in three weeks and a number one selling mv is mediocre. Wow, I thought he was doing rather well. I guess everyone has their own opinions of what’s mediocre.

  62. 300,000 in three weeks and a number one selling mv is mediocre. Wow, I thought he was doing rather well. I guess everyone has their own opinions of what’s mediocre.

    Perception = reality. Adam is doing well, but a lot of people thought he would be moving SuBo numbers and become the biggest thing since Elvis Presley. Anything less is considered failure. It’s unfair, but that’s how some people see it. YMMV.

  63. I’m kind of surprised that Archie dropped 17%

    I’m not surprised. He had a string of 5 consecutive weeks of increases starting Nov. 2 with increases of 17%, 15%, 83%, 21% and the 57%. A decline at some point was inevitable. Having said that, I think that if he had some real promotion (and I don’t include a 30 second interview with an M&M on ET) — even Allison Iraheta level promotion — he could be doing even better. His Christmas album still has the chance to be the biggest selling album from a former Idol on the Jive label in 2009, which is pretty good when you consider that two winners released heavily promoted Pop albums this year.

  64. Wow at Sade’s adds’ ¦ wasn’t that single new this week?

    Yes, it’s brand new. That’s going to be a monster on Urban AC. It’s a good song, too.

  65. I’m counting 19 total adds in US for Adam this week (plus 3 in Canada) and 14 total adds for Kris

    And I’m still holding onto hope that Kris’ album sales will actually be more this week from last week. Just because he isn’t in the Top 50 doesn’t mean his sales dropped. His album JUMPED on iTunes after his SYTYCD appearance, and although it’s slid back since then, it is still ahead of where it was last Wednesday. I know iTunes is a small % of total sales, but it still seems like some sort of a positive.

    and LLWD is still at #23 on iTunes – so I’d say it’s pretty likely that his sales numbers for the single, anyway, will be up from last week, even if the album numbers did happen to drop.

    Anyone know how you get the soundscan official numbers for artists who aren’t in the top 50?

  66. Sassycatz
    12/15/2009 at 6:21 pm

    300,000 in three weeks

    I think it’s about 293,000.

    Actually the number is 295,727 but this could change too when Soundscan actual numbers come in and they have underestimated for Adam the past two weeks thought not by huge margin. (1000-3000)

  67. Besides Susan Boyle what other New Artist has done as well. Adam has the 2nd highest debut of any new artist this year and if I was a new artist I would be frigging thrilled with his numbers.

    Ummm, aren’t we only a few weeks into the album sales year? Doesn’t it begin sometime in November? Just keeping it real.

    FWIW, Adam isn’t setting the recording industry on fire or anything, but he is doing OK. Just below what his predecessor Archie did last year, in fact. Factoring in the speculated 13% decrease in overall sales this year, I’d say they are about par, but Archie had more momentum at this point last year.

    Sure, Adam has had way more hype and promotion than Archie had, but Archie had a more popular AI Season behind him and a large fanbase to start with. It’s early days yet.

  68. yeah adam has good numbers so far- considering he doesnt have a hit single hit! it will be a hit but its not quite there yet…repeated radio plays helps alot! and yes people will always try to knock down adam no matter what, he is the real underdog this season bc of his sexuality plain and simple, sorry kris and alison, he has alot more to overcome, this is uncharted territory for a openly gay male pop star in 2009 to be selling records in my opinion and the fact that is he doing it is awesome

  69. Actually the number is 295,727

    Actually, those aren’t actual numbers but HDD estimates for his 3rd week. We should know Adam’s real numbers tomorrow.

  70. Ummm, aren’t we only a few weeks into the album sales year? Doesn’t it begin sometime in November? Just keeping it real.

    no they count from Dec 2008-Nov 2009 which includes Adam’s debut week

    Thanks to 123abc456 for the correct time frame

  71. SashaB
    12/15/2009 at 6:31 pm

    Actually the number is 295,727

    Actually, those aren’t actual numbers but HDD estimates for his 3rd week. We should know Adam’s real numbers tomorrow.

    Actually I think if you read my entire post you would see that is what I said.

  72. Billboard Album sales are counted from December to November of the next year.

  73. Does anyone know how to see what numbers Kris sold this week?

  74. 123abc456
    12/15/2009 at 6:37 pm

    Billboard Album sales are counted from December to November of the next year.

    Thanks for the correction but does not dispute my original comment about him having the second Highest sales for a new artist for that period of time. His debut week was in November.

  75. The only way to really see how Adam and Kris are doing is to see what happens after the holidays. They will certainly have increased airplay due to all those adds, so we’ll see if that translates into album sales. So far I have not seen Adam’s media appearances give him any real bumps in sales. I’m hoping that SYTYCD will help tomorrow since it’s more of Idol crowd trained to go to iTunes. Kris’s bumps have not been substantial either, but we’ll know more tomorrow when the real numbers come out.

    It’s not unheard of to have radio play and not move albums. Jordin is a prime example of that with her latest album. Hopefully Adam and Kris will turn it around and show increased album sales with increased airplay. The beginning of AI9 should give them bumps as well. Things are tough everywhere in Idolsphere right now. Kelly Clarkson isn’t going platinum in the US with her latest album, and Daughtry platinum status isn’t a guarantee either even though both have great radio play.

  76. I think download sales for Kris and Adam were only 4000 units last week.

  77. people will always try to knock down adam no matter what, he is the real underdog this season bc of his sexuality plain and simple, sorry kris and alison, he has alot more to overcome, this is uncharted territory for a openly gay male pop star in 2009 to be selling records in my opinion and the fact that is he doing it is awesome

    I will never see Adam as the underdog of S8. Yes, people can be hateful in their prejudice. But all Adam has gotten is hype and support from AI, 19, and the media. The positive media coverage Adam has gotten has rightly overshadowed any negative coverage he’s gotten due to homophobia. The AMA debacle wasn’t really a debacle in the end because it served to keep Adam in the news, and it rallied his fanbase. An underdog is someone who has to beat the “system.” How can Adam be the underdog when it seems like the system is totally supporting him?

  78. We don’t really know the full story with what support Adam gets from AI or 19. I kind of felt towards the end there were definite signs AI was setting up Kris to win. Most of Adam’s media attention is not about his music with the exception of Rolling Stone.

  79. I will never see Adam as the underdog of S8. Yes, people can be hateful in their prejudice. But all Adam has gotten is hype and support from AI, 19, and the media. The positive media coverage Adam has gotten has rightly overshadowed any negative coverage he’s gotten due to homophobia. The AMA debacle wasn’t really a debacle in the end because it served to keep Adam in the news, and it rallied his fan base. An underdog is someone who has to beat the ‘system.’  How can Adam be the underdog when it seems like the system is totally supporting him?

    On some level I can see your point but on the other end of all this you have picketers condemning him just because he is gay, ABC canceling him, Bill O’Reilly being Bill O’Reilly, Out Editors Letter. I know from one’s perspective it could seem that one washes out the other and I don’t doubt it helps but believe me being hated for who you are no matter where it comes from takes its toll. Or for people who belabor for hours about your sexuality and who you sleep with and what you do, where every question is asked about your sexuality, that takes it toll. How to handle it there is no right answer as the question should never be asked in the first place. It seem for all the pluses he has he has just as many negatives. For the others they might not have gotten as much hype but they sure did not get as much flack either. So who really wins and who is the underdog?

    Also I got the impression that Adam did not become a “favorite” of the judges (except Paula) or the producers until after he sang Tracks of my Tears. Prior if you go back Simon condemned him most of the time. Especially Ring of Fire

  80. efm
    “I will never see Adam as the underdog of S8. Yes, people can be hateful in their prejudice. But all Adam has gotten is hype and support from AI, 19, and the media. The positive media coverage Adam has gotten has rightly overshadowed any negative coverage he’s gotten due to homophobia. The AMA debacle wasn’t really a debacle in the end because it served to keep Adam in the news, and it rallied his fanbase. An underdog is someone who has to beat the ‘system.’  How can Adam be the underdog when it seems like the system is totally supporting him?”

    The media, AI and 19 are not the ones buying the album. It’s the public who decide who they vote for and who’s album they buy. Your behind the eight ball, when you automatically know that a segment of the American public is not going to buy your music because your gay. All the support in the world won’t help you if you got people out there who won’t even listen to your music or buy it, because you sleep with people of the same sex.

  81. dhunken
    12/15/2009 at 6:40 pm
    123abc456
    12/15/2009 at 6:37 pm

    Billboard Album sales are counted from December to November of the next year.

    Thanks for the correction but does not dispute my original comment about him having the second Highest sales for a new artist for that period of time. His debut week was in November.

    As per the point I was trying to make, I’m pretty sure that Adam’s debut will be counted in the 2010 Chart Year, dhunken, otherwise he would definitely not be the the 2nd highest debut by a debut artist in 2009. Cookie comes to mind after Suebo, for instance. Next year your statement may hold true, but it is early going yet.

  82. If every gay person in America or every relative/friend/acquaintance of a gay person bought Adam’s album he’d be kicking SuBo’s butt.

    Homophobia only means people won’t buy your stuff. They can’t actually stop the non homophobes from buying it. I bet there are at least 1 million non homophobes in the US so Adam has a shot at going platinum.

  83. Isn’t Justin Bieber’s album a debut? I can see him outselling Adam when all is said and done. His numbers are holding up better currently too. I think next week his numbers are really going to explode because tons of young girls want his CD for Christmas.

  84. he is the real underdog this season bc of his sexuality plain and simple

    Adam Lambert=the underdog of AI season 8? Sorry, but I just don’t see it. He was heavily pimped during the season and was favored to win by most people. He has received the lion’s share of the press and hype-certainly more than any other finalist this season. His sexuality didn’t prevent him from advancing as far as the Top 2 of AI. That’s part of the reason why I really don’t buy “homophobia” as a reason why he eventually lost to Kris. If “America” was so dead set against an openly gay man winning Idol, then why wasn’t Danny voted into the finale with Kris? His sexuality is an issue for a small minority of homophobic folks-no one else really cares (IMO). That’s not to say that Adam hasn’t had to deal with any negativity due to his sexuality (and unfortunately he won’t ever be able to completely escape that), but I think the love, praise and support he has received outweighs the negativity.

  85. As per the point I was trying to make, I’m pretty sure that Adam’s debut will be counted in the 2010 Chart Year, dhunken, otherwise he would definitely not be the the 2nd highest debut by a debut artist in 2009. Cookie comes to mind after Suebo,

    No. See, Cook debuted in November, 2008 which made him part of the 2008 chart year. Adam debuted in November, 2009 (on the same day as Subo) which puts him at the very end of the 2009 chart year. Therefore, Adam had the second highest first week for a new artist of 2009. SuBo is #1. No other new artist had a higher first week than either of them. Everyone debuting this month counts towards 2010. The year runs December-November.

  86. The media, AI and 19 are not the ones buying the album. It’s the public who decide who they vote for and who’s album they buy. Your behind the eight ball, when you automatically know that a segment of the American public is not going to buy your music because your gay.

    With that logic EVERYBODY is behind the 8 ball. There’s always a segment of the population that won’t buy somebody’s album for some reason.

    Carrie’s “behind the 8 ball” because some people will never buy a country cd.
    Archie is “behind the 8 ball” because some people will never buy a teenager’s cd.
    Alicia Keys is “behind the 8 ball” because some people will never buy a black woman’s cd.
    And so on… Heck, pretty much everybody from AI is behind the 8 ball simply because they started on AI and there’s a segment of the population who will never buy anything from an AIer.

    So yes, there are people who will never buy an Adam Lambert cd simply because he’s gay, but the idea that it’s enough of a disadvantage that it can be blamed if he doesn’t meet expectations is over thinking it a bit, and underestimating the American public. If Adam fails long term, he’ll fail because people don’t like his music. If he succeeds it will be because people did like his music.

  87. As per the point I was trying to make, I’m pretty sure that Adam’s debut will be counted in the 2010 Chart Year, dhunken, otherwise he would definitely not be the the 2nd highest debut by a debut artist in 2009. Cookie comes to mind after Suebo, for instance. Next year your statement may hold true, but it is early going yet.

    Your point is wrong David Cook would have been on Last years list as his debut was in November 2008 and would have been on the list for the period of Dec 2007-Nov 2008. Dec 2008 was not his Debut month. Which is include in this period of time which does include Adam. Again we are talking about Dec 2008-Nov 2009 here is the list from Billboard of Debut sales for the year by artist or you can say he had the 19 highest debut week of 2009 all artist.

    Biggest opening weeks of the year

    Susan Boyle 701,000

    Eminem 608,000
    U2 484,000
    Jay-Z 476,000
    Dave Matthews Band 424,000
    Michael Jackson 373,000
    Rascal Flatts 351,000
    Lady GaGa 325,000
    Carrie Underwood 318,000
    Maxwell 316,000
    Whitney Houston 305,000
    Black Eyed Peas 304,000
    John Mayer 286,000
    Daughtry 269,000
    Kelly Clarkson 255,000
    Jonas Brothers 247,000
    Bruce Springsteen 224,000
    Green Day 215,000
    Adam Lambert 198,000
    Pearl Jam 189,000
    Rihanna 181,000
    Norah Jones 180,000
    Barbra Streisand 180,000
    The Fray 179,000
    Paramore 175,000
    Keith Urban 172,000
    Now That’s What I Call Music Vol. 31 169,000
    Mariah Carey 168,000
    Prince 168,000
    Casting Crowns 167,000
    Bon Jovi 163,000
    50 Cent 160,000
    Rick Ross 157,000
    George Strait 155,000
    The-Dream 151,000
    Andrea Bocelli 149,000
    Now That’s What I Call Music Vol. 30 146,000
    Hannah Montana: The Movie Soundtrack 139,000
    Hannah Montana 3 Soundtrack 137,000
    Tim McGraw 137,000
    Justin Bieber 137,000
    Jadakiss 135,000
    Breaking Benjamin 134,000
    Michael Buble 132,000
    Trey Songz 131,000
    Brad Paisley 130,000
    Muse 128,000
    Alice In Chains 126,000
    Bob Dylan 125,000
    Rob Thomas 122,000
    New Moon Soundtrack 115,000
    Day26 113,000
    Glee Vol. 1 113,000
    Creed 110,000
    Jason Aldean 109,000
    Kiss 108,000
    Demi Lovato 107,000
    Colbie Caillat 106,000
    Diana Krall 104,000
    Kid Cudi 104,000
    Now That’s What I Call Music Vol. 32 102,000
    Wilco 99,000
    Fabolous 99,000
    Reba McEntire 96,000
    Keri Hilson 94,000
    Toby Keith 90,000
    Kenny Chesney 89,000
    Shakira 89,000
    Rod Stewart 84,000
    Trans-Siberian Orchestra 83,000
    Chrisette Michele 83,000
    Ciara 81,000
    Depeche Mode 80,000
    Kris Allen 80,000
    Sting 80,000
    Three Days Grace 79,000

  88. Oh, if ONLY I could be “doing . . . as mediocre” as Adam . . .

    just slogging along “like the next guy . . .”

    oh yeah, and living my dream MY way, writing and making music with my favorite artists, making music videos, DRESSING UP, performing for thousands of fans AND industry bigwigs, being selected one of the ten most fascinating people and being interviewed by Barbara Walters, having a number one music video, being a RS number 1 favorite artist, headlining a New Year’s Eve concert in Los Angeles, and all the while promoting a fantastic album made in mere months while touring the country, an album receiving strong reviews and that proudly represents who I am as an artist and a person . . .

    Succumb. Resistance is futile. Adam IS the next big thing.

  89. Trina
    12/15/2009 at 7:22 pm

    Isn’t Justin Bieber’s album a debut? I can see him outselling Adam when all is said and done. His numbers are holding up better currently too. I think next week his numbers are really going to explode because tons of young girls want his CD for Christmas.

    You maybe right about him selling more in the long run but his debut week he sold 137K. But never underestimate the power of tween girls. They made a goddess out of Taylor Swift. (I admit she has one or two songs that are not half bad)

  90. Does anyone know how to see what numbers Kris sold this week?

    Idol Chatter will have them tomorrow.

    Adam IS the next big thing.

    Sadly it looks like a deranged cat lady or Justin Bieber are actually the next big things. Ugh.

  91. Isn’t Justin Bieber’s album a debut? I can see him outselling Adam when all is said and done.

    Yes. But, the first week sales are what counts when figuring out who had the highest debut. Bieber’s going to be huge, though. Which is fine with me since I’ll never have to listen to him.

  92. Sadly it looks like a deranged cat lady or Justin Bieber are actually the next big things. Ugh.

    :lol:

  93. Adam Lambert=the underdog of AI season 8?

    That ought to be the biggest joke of this decade! LMFAO

    IMHO He might actually win the S8 if he wasn’t so over-pimped week-after-week and his album sales might even be almost as good as SuBo if the media news weren’t so OTT or In-Your-Face every other day (if not everyday). Too much of something can make people feel sick after a while you know…

  94. No. See, Cook debuted in November, 2008 which made him part of the 2008 chart year. Adam debuted in November, 2009 (on the same day as Subo) which puts him at the very end of the 2009 chart year. Therefore, Adam had the second highest first week for a new artist of 2009. SuBo is #1. No other new artist had a higher first week than either of them. Everyone debuting this month counts towards 2010. The year runs December-November.

    I am so confused. Why is Cook all over the recently released Billboard Year End Charts for 2009, if he was counted in the 2008 charts?.

  95. Biggest opening weeks of the year

    Susan Boyle 701,000
    Eminem 608,000
    U2 484,000
    Jay-Z 476,000
    Dave Matthews Band 424,000
    Michael Jackson 373,000
    Rascal Flatts 351,000
    Lady GaGa 325,000
    Carrie Underwood 318,000
    Maxwell 316,000
    Whitney Houston 305,000
    Black Eyed Peas 304,000
    John Mayer 286,000
    Daughtry 269,000
    Kelly Clarkson 255,000
    Jonas Brothers 247,000
    Bruce Springsteen 224,000
    Green Day 215,000
    Adam Lambert 198,000
    Pearl Jam 189,000
    Rihanna 181,000
    Norah Jones 180,000
    Barbra Streisand 180,000
    The Fray 179,000
    Paramore 175,000
    Keith Urban 172,000
    Now That’s What I Call Music Vol. 31 169,000
    Mariah Carey 168,000
    Prince 168,000
    Casting Crowns 167,000
    Bon Jovi 163,000
    50 Cent 160,000
    Rick Ross 157,000
    George Strait 155,000
    The-Dream 151,000
    Andrea Bocelli 149,000
    Now That’s What I Call Music Vol. 30 146,000
    Hannah Montana: The Movie Soundtrack 139,000
    Hannah Montana 3 Soundtrack 137,000
    Tim McGraw 137,000
    Justin Bieber 137,000
    Jadakiss 135,000
    Breaking Benjamin 134,000
    Michael Buble 132,000
    Trey Songz 131,000
    Brad Paisley 130,000
    Muse 128,000
    Alice In Chains 126,000
    Bob Dylan 125,000
    Rob Thomas 122,000
    New Moon Soundtrack 115,000
    Day26 113,000
    Glee Vol. 1 113,000
    Creed 110,000
    Jason Aldean 109,000
    Kiss 108,000
    Demi Lovato 107,000
    Colbie Caillat 106,000
    Diana Krall 104,000
    Kid Cudi 104,000
    Now That’s What I Call Music Vol. 32 102,000
    Wilco 99,000
    Fabolous 99,000
    Reba McEntire 96,000
    Keri Hilson 94,000
    Toby Keith 90,000
    Kenny Chesney 89,000
    Shakira 89,000
    Rod Stewart 84,000
    Trans-Siberian Orchestra 83,000
    Chrisette Michele 83,000
    Ciara 81,000
    Depeche Mode 80,000
    Kris Allen 80,000
    Sting 80,000
    Three Days Grace 79,000

    I just love this factual list…it speaks loud and proud to all the Lambert critics out there. Way to go Adam……this next year will be amazing for you..it’s only just begun!

  96. Succumb. Resistance is futile. Adam IS the next big thing

    Not happening for me.

  97. “So yes, there are people who will never buy an Adam Lambert cd simply because he’s gay, but the idea that it’s enough of a disadvantage that it can be blamed if he doesn’t meet expectations is over thinking it a bit, and underestimating the American public. If Adam fails long term, he’ll fail because people don’t like his music. If he succeeds it will be because people did like his music.”

    No where in my reply did I say anything about using the fact that a segment of the public will not buy his album, as an excuse for not meeting expectations. I think Adam is an exceptional singer and hopefully he will meet the expectations he set for himself and RCA.

  98. I am so confused. Why is Cook all over the recently released Billboard Year End Charts for 2009, if he was counted in the 2008 charts?.

    I think his debut week and the next week or two would be in the 2008 numbers, plus whatever AI songs and TOML and LO sold prior to Dec 2008. But he sold quite a bit since then and that is what is on the 2009 charts.

  99. I am so confused. Why is Cook all over the recently released Billboard Year End Charts for 2009, if he was counted in the 2008 charts?.

    The calendar year is November – November. Cook had radio play, singles and album sales in calendar year of 2008 as did Archie. Both the Davids were in the BB Year End Charts for 2008 lists for these aforementioned areas. And since both The Davids had radio charting, singles and album sales in 2009, they also made the 2009 Year End Charts for 2009. The chart cut off is the same week every year. For 2008, Cook was the #8 top selling new artist and Archie was the #10.

    Not sure where the AI8’ers fall in terms of new artists for 2009.

  100. suenigma, I totally get your confusion. Believe me, you are not alone in figuring out these chart date thingies. Here’s the deal: What we’re talking about with Adam and Subo having top new artist debut’s is THEIR OPENING WEEK only. That fell in the 2009 category because their albums dropped in November. But, like Cook’s album, their albums will continue to sell for the next year (hopefully). SuBo, at least, I’m sure will win some Billboard honors for 2010 even though her album dropped at the end of 2009. Cook is being rewarded for his achievements post his debut date. Had Cook’s album dropped a week later, he would have been second to SuBo as highest new artist debut, and Adam would have been third. I’m not sure how Cook compared to other new artists first weeks last year, but he has to be at the top!

  101. I am so confused. Why is Cook all over the recently released Billboard Year End Charts for 2009, if he was counted in the 2008 charts?.

    I so understand your confusion but the list that Adam made is only the top sales debut weeks for the period of Dec 2008-Nov 2009 (which both Davids did not debut an album during that period of time) . The list that David Cooks has made are for his singles and Album for Cumulative sales and charting. That is why Adam and Kris would not be on the list for this year as far as singles or albums sales on a cumulative basis or charting position. Kris may do well next year with LLWD and what ever second or third single. Adam may do well with WWFM and subsequent singles. So I hope you understand that one is a list for first week sales only which Adam did make the other is for sales and charting throughout the year from the period Dec 2008-Nov2009

  102. The calendar year is November ‘“ November.

    No. That’s an error at the top of the page. Billboard’s calendar year runs from first December to November.

  103. The list that David Cooks has made are for his singles and Album for Cumulative sales and charting.

    It’s cumulative for 2009 same goes for Archie. You can check the BB 2009 thread for more clarification.

  104. SashaB
    12/15/2009 at 8:11 pm

    The list that David Cooks has made are for his singles and Album for Cumulative sales and charting.

    Nope, it’s cumulative for 2009 same goes for Archie. You can check the BB 2009 thread for more clarification.

    Excuse why to you keep correcting me by repeating exactly what I am saying. please thoroughly READ my post before you try to correct me. I agree with you that is what I said IT IS CUMULATIVE FOR THE PERIOD OF DEC 2008 TO NOV 2009. Which is considered the 2009 year. Which is exactly what you just repeated and did not have too. :-)

  105. Eh. General American homophobia is not the problem for Adam. Homophobia among the typical buyers in his genre – pop – and the gatekeepers to marketing to that genre would be the issue. Not many 12-25 year olds give a crap about Bill O’reilly. LOL. They sure ain’t buying records based on his tastes.

    I think it could be a problem for him in some sense, but so far it doesn’t seem to stop him from getting on pop stations or covered in popular media and blogs. In fact, there are quite a few taste makers for that demo championing him. I think he’ll be fine.

    As far as his and Kris’ sales… last year DC was raked over the coals for not being Daughtry, or not having a big hit pop song like Archie (which was supposed to doom him to failure). So this year I don’t want to rake these guys over the coals for not being DC/Archie. Their careers will follow different trajectories. We don’t know how these stories will end yet, so for now I will just look at the plain facts and say they are selling steadily, their singles are climbing, and both have a chance to make their labels a nice profit, which is the bottom line IMO.

  106. Excuse why to you keep correct me on exactly what I am saying please READ my post before you correct me. I agree with you that is what I said IT IS CUMULATIVE FOR THE PERIOD OF DEC 2008 TO NOV 2009. Which is exactly what you just repeated and did not have too.

    Um, okay. It’s not that big of a deal. But yeah, isn’t that what an end of year 2009 wrap up means? LOL. *

  107. As far as his and Kris’ sales’ ¦ last year DC was raked over the coals for not being Daughtry, or not having a big hit pop song like Archie (which was supposed to doom him to failure). So this year I don’t want to rake these guys over the coals for not being DC/Archie. Their careers will follow different trajectories. We don’t know how these stories will end yet, so for now I will just look at the plain facts and say they are selling steadily, their singles are climbing, and both have a chance to make their labels a nice profit, which is the bottom line IMO.

    Very well said and I think I am going to follow your lead. ;-)

  108. NO, apparently the published date is December but the week is mid-November when the chart year changes. There is much confusion here.

    David Cook’s TOML and the first weeks of LO fell into the 2008 chart year, as did Archie’s Crush. That’s why they were on the BB 2008 chart. No one from season 8 did well enough with their singles, coming out before mid-November, to make the 2009 chart. Cook’s album fell completely in the 2009 chart year. Archie’s album debuted in the 2008 chart year, I believe.

    I’m pretty sure AL’s album will fall completely in the 2010 chart year, not the 2009. KA’s album I think may be 2009 chart year for debuts. FYE the song is I think 2009 debut. WWFM would be 2010.

  109. I don’t remember David Cook being raked over the coals for his album numbers last year. I think most people recognized that they were pretty great; they were certainly way ahead of Archie. He was raked over the coals mightily for Light On and the perceived lack of a hit single. That I heard over and over.

  110. when ur the FIRST openly gay pop artist at the BEGINNING of your career before you’ve had any succes?? yup underdog ….but neways, hopefully adam’s album will go gold by the end of january if radio keeps up!:)

  111. IndyMuse
    12/15/2009 at 8:18 pm
    NO, apparently the published date is December but the week is mid-November when the chart year changes. There is much confusion here.

    Bless you Indymuse!!! That is precisely what I was saying from the beginning. Mid-November!

    If you look at the raw data (total number of album sales) they include ALL of Cook’s sales, including his debut week. Hence all of Adam’s sales, including his debut week, will be included in the 2010 Chart Year, not 2009.

  112. IndyMuse
    12/15/2009 at 8:18 pm

    NO, apparently the published date is December but the week is mid-November when the chart year changes. There is much confusion here.

    Well then color me so confused because the list I posted is from Billboard. Its their numbers. So they must not understand there own listings time frame either. I don’t understand that something simple has to be ripped apart so people feel good about their perception.

    Not directed at you Indymuse.

  113. I don’t remember David Cook being raked over the coals for his album numbers last year. I think most people recognized that they were pretty great; they were certainly way ahead of Archie. He was raked over the coals mightily for Light On and the perceived lack of a hit single. That I heard over and over.

    Yeah, he was, mainly in January when he fell out of the top 10. Also his debut week. But there was a lot more of the “No Pop Hit! Doomed I Say!” going on too. LOL. That’s why I referenced both.

    My overall point is that while I think it is useful and fun to do some comparisons/benchmarking, I don’t think its the be all end all for success. In the end, they will rise and fall on the bottom line.. profit. There are a lot of paths to profit. So I will be patient and let things unfold.

  114. As far as his and Kris’ sales’ ¦ last year DC was raked over the coals for not being Daughtry, or not having a big hit pop song like Archie (which was supposed to doom him to failure). So this year I don’t want to rake these guys over the coals for not being DC/Archie. Their careers will follow different trajectories. We don’t know how these stories will end yet, so for now I will just look at the plain facts and say they are selling steadily, their singles are climbing, and both have a chance to make their labels a nice profit, which is the bottom line IMO.

    As an Adam fan (who likes Kris and wants him to succeed too), thank you, tinawina, for saying this. I agree with it and couldn’t have said it better myself.

  115. I reiterate what someone up thread said. The 2008 numbers likely reflect the AI7 downloads. Cook dominated sales during that season and Archie was not far behind him. Also, TOML, LO and Crush were charting pretty strongly by end of last year.

    Not only did the AI8 group not chart with their AI downloads, none of their singles have made enough of an impact yet for the 2009 end of year chart. Likely they will be there next year.

    It sure is nice to see all those AI alumni in the year end lists.

  116. Here are the dates for the Billboard Chart Year:

    2009 Chart Year began on 11/17/08 (Billboard issue date 12/6/08).

    2010 Chart Year began on 11/16/09 (Billboard issue date 12/5/09).

    Kris, Adam, and Allison’s albums were all released in Chart Year 2010.

  117. Based on that, Kris would be included in 2009 Chart Year. Where’s your link for those dates, Ladymadonna?

  118. 2010 Chart Year began with the sales week ending 11/22/09 (Billboard issue date 12/5/09).

    nvm, i’m an idiot who apparently cannot read. sry. move along. nothing to see here. :-)

  119. If it was released a day after the start of the 2010 chart year, it will be wholly in the 2010 chart year.

  120. Thank you ladymadonna and Indymuse! Like I say, I didn’t have the precise dates, but that was my understanding as well. And not merely because it supports “My Idol” numbers (LOL), but because it is accurate. Funny how when I was being corrected, it was considered helpful, but now when others are being corrected, it is considered nit-picking. In any event, thank you.

  121. when ur the FIRST openly gay pop artist at the BEGINNING of your career before you’ve had any succes?? yup underdog ‘ ¦.

    Adam’s the first openly gay pop artist at the beginning of his career that has had an RS cover, an EW cover, a Details cover, and an OUT cover, and the support of artists such as Katy Perry (the cape) and Brian May, all before he even put out his own music. (A lot of established artists don’t nearly get that kind of coverage or support.) I still don’t see how he’s an underdog.

  122. Where’s your link for those dates, Ladymadonna?

    Link? Sorry, I pulled these dates from my own tracking charts. The Billboard Chart year begins with their first issue in December every year. I don’t have time to search for documentation of the exact dates but you can find them I’m sure at either Billboard.com or Pulse. Feel free to check me if you think I’m wrong, but I assure you these are the correct dates.

    Ok this is from Billboard themselves on how they calculate their year end charts. There is no talk about mid November to Mid November it is Dec 2008 (first week) until Nov 2009 (last week)

    Correct. But each week, Billboard publishes charts from the sales week two weeks prior to their issue date. So the first issue date of December reports sales from a week in mid-November. See dates posted above.

  123. If it was released a day after the start of the 2010 chart year, it will be wholly in the 2010 chart year.

    Until I see a link proving that the chart year ended on November 22, I say the chart year is December-November, just as it is published in Billboard. Because if you and Ladymadonna are correct, someone needs to contact the staff at Billboard and demand they remove Adam, Subo, and Kris from their end of the year Top Opening Week chart.

  124. Keep in mind the first issue in December covers the prior week or two, which agrees with LadyM’s earlier post about the dates covered. This is not speculation on her part, it is fact.

  125. From the BB article:

    from the weekly charts on which they appeared during the 2009 chart year (December 2008 – November 2009).

    Notice it says “from the weekly charts on which they appeared”. And recall we get those weekly charts well after the week they relate to.

  126. Because if you and Ladymadonna are correct, someone needs to contact the staff at Billboard and demand they remove Adam, Subo, and Kris from their end of the year Top Opening Week chart.

    You are confusing the Calendar Year and the Billboard Chart Year. These are different tracking periods. The opening weeks you are referring to fall into Calendar Year 2009, but Chart Year 2010.

  127. Also from the BB article:

    Sales or airplay registered before or after a title’s chart run are not considered in these standings. That detail, and the December-November time period, account for some of the differences between these lists and the calendar-year recaps that are compiled independently by either SoundScan or BDS.

    This is the difference – chart year versus calendar year. This whole article absolutely supports LadyM’s points. See her last post.

  128. Correct. But Billboard publishes charts from sales weeks two weeks prior to their issue date. So the first issue date of December includes sales from a sales week in mid-November. See dates posted above.

    Ok I do not disagree with you but it does not say sales posted for the first week of December it says sales as of the first week. It can be interrupted both ways. I am not saying you are wrong but there has to be somewhere where it is clearly stated. It definitely does not mean mid November as some has tried to profess. so Kris’s first week sales would be included in the 2009 charts. correct?

  129. I would include 11/22 in mid-November, personally, but I’m the one who stated this. Heh.

  130. So Kris’s first week sales would be included in the 2009 charts. correct?

    No. Kris’s debut week was the first week of Chart Year 2010. His chart debut on the BB200 was published in Billboard Issue dated 12/5/09, which reported charts from the sales week 11/16-11/22.

  131. If it goes by when they appeared on the chart then they would be 2009.

  132. Correct. But each week, Billboard publishes charts from the sales week two weeks prior to their issue date. So the first issue date of December reports sales from a week in mid-November. See dates posted above.

    I see where some of my confusion comes in. The website post in real time but they are putting dates of when it will be published in their hard copy publications. So Kris sales even though I saw them on Billboard.com on the 26th of November but the date that it would be seen in their hard copy and the date they record the sales post date is Dec 5th. Now am I understanding it. I still don’t know why the list I got was posted on the Billboard website to add to my confusion. Thanks to those who were being patient trying to help me understand.

  133. Ladymadonna is correct and that is what I meant by from December to November. “The Published Charts” which include releases in November that are on the chart in December.

  134. just bc he has the media support (now) doesnt mean the same thing as having the public support, none of those things matters…first openly gay male at the BEGINNING of his career, uncharted territory, never been done…huge underdog, but he is holding up so far!:)

  135. This is from the Pulse Music Board’s General Chart Procedures Questions Thread/Guide

    Billboard year: The chart year that is used to compile “year-end” charts for the annual year-end magazine. The chart year rund from mid-November of the prior year to mid-November of the current year. Another way to think of it is the first week of the new chart year is the first issue date of December. The Billboard year differs from the calendar year because of publishing deadlines for the year-end magazine. Otherwise they would not have year-end charts for the year-end magazine

    Calendar year – January 1 thru December 31. Billboard publishes charts for this too. Usually around the 3rd week of January. Soundscan will issue an annual report in the first week of January. Charts that come from Calendar year stems from the ACTUAL year.

    The difference between the calendar year and Billboard year is 7 weeks. The Billboard year starts 7 weeks earlier.

  136. IndyMuse
    12/15/2009 at 8:59 pm

    I would include 11/22 in mid-November, personally, but I’m the one who stated this. Heh.

    I’m sorry I would say that was more end of November but really not that important but I really do appreciate you and Lady Madonna taking the time and having the patience to make this clear for me. :-)

  137. The Billboard year differs from the calendar year because of publishing deadlines for the year-end magazine. Otherwise they would not have year-end charts for the year-end magazine

    This was the piece of the puzzle that was missing. Thanks to you I figured it out before you found this but thank you for finding it and even making it clearer

    When others were saying ‘The Published Charts’  thought they meant the on line posted dates. See what happens when I only reads from the internet and not hard copies.

  138. I concur. Ladymadonna is correct about the start of the BB year.

    Because BB has been around since the days before direct-to-print, it used to take a while to get the hardcopy out to stores. So, the dates are offset two weeks. The numbers we get tomorrow (and which are predicted in this thread) will be dated Dec 26th even though they are released on Dec 16/17 and will be for sales the week of Dec 6-13.

    By January, people seem to no longer care about what was the best selling whatever or most important whatever of the year/decade, so magazines print their lists in December. That’s the logic which drives ending the BB year in mid-November.

    For those who watch the charts, this is well known. It’s like this every year.

  139. But Billboard publishes charts from sales weeks two weeks prior to their issue date. So the first issue date of December includes sales from a sales week in mid-November. See dates posted above.

    Yes. But, the end of year list doesn’t come out until third week in December. Therefore, it includes the final 2 weeks of the chart year – aka the last 2 weeks full sales/spin weeks of November. If the chart was published the first week in December, I’d agree with you. But, it’s not. And Billboard specifically states that the calendar year runs December-November.

  140. SNLW, Mr Lambert either knows how to milk media attention, or he represents an advanced guard of a wave about to hit America. I do not profess to know which is correct, but I have no doubt he will continue to awe and/or shock this nation with his voice or unusual personality. I don’t think a high speed locomotive could push him back into oblivion. He reminds me so much of Madonna during her ‘Borderline’ / ‘Desperately Seeking Susan’ period; gaudy,mouthy, and obviously smart. I personally hope he has meticulously planned all the over hyping and controversy. The line between fame and infamy is a tightrope every public personality tiptoes on…and there he is dancing across the whole damned thing.

  141. No problem dhunken, it’s confusing as hell. But you’ll get the hang of it. I would recommend perusing Billboard.com or the boards at Pulse or UKMix if you’re interested in learning more about how the charts work. There are also some good chart threads at some of the fanboards for various Idols, and of course Kirsten does a tremendous job with the various chart/number threads here at mj’s.

  142. But we can say Adam had the 2nd highest debut for a new artist for the 2009 calendar year. Right?

  143. I think the bloom is off Idol with Carrie really being the only Idol around that can still dominate the charts. I’d say the whole kareoke reality show thing was DOA except for the incredible success of SuBo.

    Both Adam and Kris are turning into Jordin type artists who will need radio hits to keep moving their albums. Idol can’t even guarantee sales of 500K for the winner let along the one million seller every season has produced so far.

  144. ladymadonna
    12/15/2009 at 9:26 pm

    No problem dhunken, it’s confusing as hell. But you’ll get the hang of it. I would recommend perusing Billboard.com or the boards at Pulse or UKMix if you’re interested in learning more about how the charts work. There are also some good chart threads at some of the fanboards for various Idols, and of course Kirsten does a tremendous job with the various chart/number threads here at mj’s.

    Thank you for those links I am interested to learn more. Kirsten’s is a god sent when it comes to what she has helped me understand with the whole numbers statisics of the music industry. Thank you again. Very educational and you have the patience of a saint. :-)

  145. Cook’s initial sales were very good and I still think it was the lack of a big Top 40 hit that kept his album from going double plat.

    I agree with that. He sold steadily for a long time but not at huge amounts, though he stayed in the top 50 for a lllooooonnnnnggggg time. A higher profile hit would have taken him much closer to 2 mil.

    But hey, I’ll take what he got. LOL.

  146. lorismile
    12/15/2009 at 9:31 pm

    But we can say Adam had the 2nd highest debut for a new artist for the 2009 calendar year. Right?

    lol I guess when 2009 is really over. No counting chickens before their hatched scenario.

  147. just bc he has the media support (now) doesnt mean the same thing as having the public support, none of those things matters

    But doesn’t media support shape public support? I would consider Adam an underdog if he had garnered public support DESPITE little or negative media coverage during and post-AI. This would mean that people could see how wonderful he was without the media trumpeting it all over the place. But so far, he’s gotten copious, overwhelmingly postive media coverage, which has undoubtedly gotten non-invested, outside-of-the-bubble people to see him as a fabulous singer –whether or not he’s gay– even before they’ve heard his music.

  148. Thanks ladymadonna. I think that the link you provided to Pulse Music Board’s General Chart Procedures Questions Thread/Guide is pretty conclusive.

    “Billboard year: The chart year that is used to compile ‘year-end’  charts for the annual year-end magazine. The chart year runs from mid-November of the prior year to mid-November of the current year.”

  149. But we can say Adam had the 2nd highest debut for a new artist for the 2009 calendar year. Right?

    Sure. And thus far he holds that spot for chart year 2010 as well, and will likely end the year in that spot. Cook’s #1 debut week for a new artist held up for both calendar year 2008 and chart year 2009. Honestly it’s nigh on impossible for any new artist to be able to surpass a popular Idol in terms of debut-week sales. There’s no platform like it for launching a new artist (save perhaps Britain’s Got Talent!). A label could not possibly buy the kind of promo that Idol represents.

  150. LM: Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. Those Pulse boards are awesome, there’s so much information over there to absorb & ponder. It’s heaven for numbers nerds – thanks to Kirsten for directing me there a while back.

    I wish Kris’ numbers were in the Top 50 on the HDD chart, but I anticipate he’s not too far off the mark. He had some really odd updates yesterday/today at HDD, so I was hoping to see their final projection today, but alas, must wait for tomorrow. I couldn’t make sense of what they reported for him, unless they made a mistake with the first update. They showed something like 11k with the 37% update, and close to the same number after another huge chunk reported. I don’t have the exact numbers with me now, but it seemed funky to me. Now I wish I had paid closer attention to the other types of artists during the updates to try & figure out which retailers had reported. I suspect the final number will be pretty accurate and it was that first update that was whack.

  151. WWFM #1 on 9@9 on Z100

    Very cool. Go Adam! I like WWFM much better than FYE.

  152. HDD bases each album’s percentage increase or decrease in sales off of their prediction from last week rather on the actual sales from last week.

    Archie’s actual sales last week as reported by Soundscan was 33,612. This means that his decrease in sales is actually about 12%, assuming that today’s predicted sales are what will be reported as the actual sales tomorrow. (-11.8% to be exact)

    On the other hand, Adam’s actual sales last week was 50,999 which closely matched the 50,648 that HDD predicted. So his 10% decrease remains true.

  153. efm
    12/15/2009 at 9:39 pm
    just bc he has the media support (now) doesnt mean the same thing as having the public support, none of those things matters

    But doesn’t media support shape public support? I would consider Adam an underdog if he had garnered public support DESPITE little or negative media coverage during and post-AI. This would mean that people could see how wonderful he was without the media trumpeting it all over the place. But so far, he’s gotten copious, overwhelmingly postive media coverage, which has undoubtedly gotten non-invested, outside-of-the-bubble people to see him as a fabulous singer ‘“whether or not he’s gay’“ even before they’ve heard his music.

    Not when it comes to deep rooted beliefs in things such as religion, racism, homophobia, or even something like patriotism. Media does not lead or shape public opinion on those things. It helps brings things to light, but the changes are extremely slow and tend to take generations for actual change to come. A media blitz of coverage on any of these topics may get people talking about them, but certainly wont shape or dictate peoples feelings on the matter.

  154. Things are so different this year. Last year, there was stress in DC’s third week because his sales dropped below 100K for the first time. This year, people are much more optimistic even with lower sales.

    Re: Kris: My prediction off of the first HDD update was 28.5K. [This was within a range of prediction from 22732 to 34098] I was almost on the money with FYE’s prediction. [Range of 36,084 and 54,126 with a prediction of 45K. His final estimate from HDD was 45,825, so close.] Carrie’s numbers were within the range that I’d estimated (109326 to 163989). So I think that Kris will turn out to be just below #50.

    BTW, if there is a question as to whether LadyM is right about something like “when does the chart year start,” the typically correct answer is “yes.”

  155. It would be a lot easier if these charts would just use the actual calendar year — i.e. January 1-Dec. 31!

  156. “BTW, if there is a question as to whether LadyM is right about something like ‘when does the chart year start,’  the typically correct answer is ‘yes.’ ”

    LOL, this is just a good general policy. And, the timing of the chart year just makes sense from a logistical standpoint. Nobody wants to read about year-end stuff in mid-January. All these stats need to be available in late December, when people are still in the year-end mode.

    Folkfan, I’m with you – I do feel like Kris will be just below the #50 cutoff. I’m thinking around 28k as well, but we’ll soon find out.

  157. Ha. Thanks FolkFan. I’m not really sure that’s a rule you want to live by, but on this particular topic I’m pretty confident. I don’t even want to think about how many hundreds of posts have been written on questions about chart-year sales tracking between here and DCO.

  158. BTW, if there is a question as to whether LadyM is right about something like ‘when does the chart year start,’  the typically correct answer is ‘yes.’ 

    I concur.

    I may argue opinions with her, but ladymadonna always knows her facts. And she is an amazing record keeper with very nifty charts.

  159. sneezepaddle: The line between fame and infamy is a tightrope every public personality tiptoes on’ ¦and there he is dancing across the whole damned thing.

    I just quickly skimmed the posts, so I’m not up on the discussion, but I love this, sneezepaddle. Your entire post seems spot-on to me. Thanks.

  160. BTW, if there is a question as to whether LadyM is right about something like ‘when does the chart year start,’  the typically correct answer is ‘yes.’ 

    Well I for one am appreciative that she was not dismissive and wanted to help me understand then just accept what was said. That was her true gift in this situation because having the answer is not better the finding the solution. You know the whole give a man a fish and he eats for the day teach him to fish and he eats for life. :-)

  161. Succumb. Resistance is futile. Adam IS the next big thing

    It is so easy to resist him.

    On the other hand, I don’t want to even try to resist Kris. :)

  162. So, are we talking about 2 completely different things here? Suenigma asked why David Cook was not on the list of Top openers for 2009. Some of us said it’s because David Cook released his album in 2008. She wondered, then, if that were to be true, why he was on Billboard’s End of The Year for 2009 lists, then. We said the end of the year chart has nothing to do with his opening week and everything to do with the album’s performance as well his singles’ performances throughout the year.

    But, based on the discussion here, Billboard cut off its 2009 charts IN ALL REGARDS on November 22. That means Susan Boyle, according to Billboard, did not, in fact, have the top opening week of 2009. Eminem did. And David Cook would be on that list even though he opened in November, 2008. And Kris Allen can remain on that list because his album squeezed in under Billboard guidelines. SuBo and Adam, on the other hand, will be included in the 2010 list of top openers. See, I’m not buying it.

  163. Aw, I’m blushing! But there are lots of folks here and in other corners of the Idolverse that know their numbers cold. It’s really in the interpretation that the fun begins.

  164. penzap

    by any chance was LLWD on Z-100’s Top 9 at 9? I wonder, because the mediabase site says that Z-100 has given Kris’ single 8 spins so far today

  165. ladymadonna
    12/15/2009 at 11:31 pm

    Aw, I’m blushing! But there are lots of folks here and in other corners of the Idolverse that know their numbers cold. It’s really in the interpretation that the fun begins.

    LOL….and you are an optimist too…..that the fun begins :lol:

  166. LLWD is now #13 on the iTunes pop chart (#25 overall) — does anyone remember — does that tie its highest ever ranking on the pop chart? I think so, but my memory is fuzzy

  167. Zsus:

    So, are we talking about 2 completely different things here?

    YES! As everyone else has said, the long list that was posted was based on the calendar year, which is the usual Jan through Dec year. Billboard’s official chart year is from mid-Nov through mid-Nov, so that Billboard can get those lists into its hard copy magazine in December. Chart lovers like to compile statistics using every possible criteria, and then analyze and compare them six ways to Sunday, so Billboard does have both kinds of lists, but the chart year is what their official stats are based on. We mere mortals can use whichever we like, usually whichever one is more favorable to to our favorite. ;)

  168. But, based on the discussion here, Billboard cut off its 2009 charts IN ALL REGARDS on November 22.

    That is not what the discussion is saying at all.

    Billboard releases calendar year stats. They update them throughout the year. Posters such as Hazehel have backed into current sales stats for albums that have otherwise fallen off the BB 200 weekly charts by adding calendar year 2009 totals to calendar year 2008 totals to get the running total for albums that began to chart in calendar year 2008.

    However, the published year-end charts, for many, many years, are based on the Billboard *chart* year, which includes the first weekly issue published in December through the last weekly issue published in November. Which means: Sales for albums in the week including November 20th typically begin the chart year, and sales for albums in the week including November 13 typically end the chart year, with their respective two-week-delayed publishing dates leading to the “December to November” timeline.

    They are two different sets of statistics, which would both be of value to industry pundits and to the labels at different times and in different situations. It’s not meant to confuse and dismay casual number-trackers; that’s just a side effect.

  169. But, based on the discussion here, Billboard cut off its 2009 charts IN ALL REGARDS on November 22. That means Susan Boyle, according to Billboard, did not, in fact, have the top opening week of 2009. Eminem did. And David Cook would be on that list even though he opened in November, 2008. And Kris Allen can remain on that list because his album squeezed in under Billboard guidelines. SuBo and Adam, on the other hand, will be included in the 2010 list of top openers. See, I’m not buying it.

    No – the last day of the 2009 Billboard chart-year was November 15, 2009. The first sales week of the 2010 chart-year ended on November 22, 2009. This was the week that Kris Allen’s debut album was released. Like David Cook before him, he has the benefit of releasing in the first week of the chart-year, which will benefit him when year-end charts are published. Adam Lambert and Susan Boyle released in the second week of the 2010 chart-year, Allison in the third. Last year, David Archuleta had his first week of sales fall into the 2008 chart-year, and the remainder of his sales in chart-year 2009.

    However, I think you are still confusing the chart-year with the calendar-year. Both tracking periods are used by chart-watchers. The calendar-year, as the name would suggest, runs from January 1 – December 31 of each year. So Eminem had the highest debut-week of chart-year 2009, but Susan Boyle had the highest debut-week sales of calendar-year 2009.

    David Cook sold 811,433 in calendar-year 2008, and 445,500 so far in calendar-year 2009. His 2009 chart-year total was 1,233,398. Different tracking periods, different totals.

    Do you buy it?

  170. David Cook sold 811,433 in calendar-year 2008, and 445,500 so far in calendar-year 2009. His 2009 chart-year total was 1,233,398. Different tracking periods, different totals.

    And before someone points out that the math doesn’t add up, Billboard has a rule that they stop counting sales for the chart year once an album has fallen out of the BB200.

    (Which is why the new rule allowing what-were-formerly-catalog titles to chart is so fucking shortsighted. Plenty of albums will continue to have steady sales but those will stop counting. Why the hell did they need to keep the list to 200? Why not say, we aren’t doing a catalog chart anymore, so we’ll just extend our single remaining list to 300?)

  171. And before someone points out that the math doesn’t add up, Billboard has a rule that they stop counting sales for the chart year once an album has fallen out of the BB200.

    Yes, thank you! I didn’t even want to go there…..

  172. Do you buy it?

    LOL! NOOOO! But, I’m sure you’re right.

    So, let’s go back to square one. SuBo and Adam have to the top 2 highest debuts of any new artist in CALENDAR YEAR 2009. The reason David Cook is not on that list is because he did not debut in CALENDAR YEAR 2009. Where he stands on the Billboard Chart Year is beyond me because I can’t even figure out who had albums out that year, anymore. :)

  173. So, let’s go back to square one. SuBo and Adam have to the top 2 highest debuts of any new artist in CALENDAR YEAR 2009. The reason David Cook is not on that list is because he did not debut in CALENDAR YEAR 2009. Where he stands on the Billboard Chart Year is beyond me because I can’t even figure out who had albums out that year, anymore.

    Yep, you got it. David Cook had the highest debut-week of any new artist in Calendar Year 2008, and in Chart Year 2009. Susan Boyle (thus far) has the highest debut-week of any new artist in Calendar Year 2009, and (thus far) in Chart Year 2010.

    And to answer your question, Cook ended up with the 14th bestselling album overall in the 2009 Billboard Chart Year. These were the albums in the Top 20:

    # Title Artist Label
    1 FEARLESS Taylor Swift Big Machine
    2 I AM…SASHA FIERCE Beyonce Music World/Columbia/Sony Music
    3 DARK HORSE Nickelback Roadrunner
    4 NUMBER ONES Michael Jackson MJJ/Epic/Sony Music
    5 TWILIGHT Soundtrack Summit/Chop Shop/Atlantic/AG
    6 HANNAH MONTANA: THE MOVIE Soundtrack Walt Disney
    7 CIRCUS Britney Spears Jive/JLG
    8 808S & HEARTBREAK Kanye West Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam/IDJMG
    9 THE FAME Lady Gaga Streamline/KonLive/Cherrytree/Interscope/IGA
    10 RELAPSE Eminem Web/Shady/Aftermath/Interscope/IGA
    11 THE E.N.D. The Black Eyed Peas Interscope/IGA
    12 ONLY BY THE NIGHT Kings Of Leon RCA/RMG
    13 THE BLUEPRINT 3 Jay-Z Roc Nation/AG
    14 DAVID COOK David Cook 19/RCA/RMG
    15 THE FOUNDATION Zac Brown Band Roar/Bigger Picture/Home Grown/Atlantic/AG
    16 THRILLER Michael Jackson Epic/Legacy/Sony Music
    17 NOW 29 Various Artists Universal/EMI/Sony Music/JLG/UMe
    18 FUNHOUSE Pink LaFace/JLG
    19 INTUITION Jamie Foxx J/RMG
    20 NO LINE ON THE HORIZON U2 Island/Interscope/IGA

  174. Not when it comes to deep rooted beliefs in things such as religion, racism, homophobia, or even something like patriotism. Media does not lead or shape public opinion on those things. It helps brings things to light, but the changes are extremely slow and tend to take generations for actual change to come. A media blitz of coverage on any of these topics may get people talking about them, but certainly wont shape or dictate peoples feelings on the matter.

    I totally see what you’re saying–and I can see how Adam might have been an underdog in his pre-Idol life. But the original quote I was responding to said that Adam was the “underdog of the past season, sorry Kris and Allison.” In the context of AI, and in the way Adam has been treated post-AI, I still don’t think that he can be called the underdog; he was–and still is–viewed as the favorite, the frontrunner.

  175. In the context of AI, and in the way Adam has been treated post-AI, I still don’t think that he can be called the underdog; he was’“and still is’“viewed as the favorite, the frontrunner.

    Boy, that’s a tough one and I’m not sure how I stand on the post AI underdoggy thing.

    But during the season, I do think Adam was the underdog primarily because of the make up of the majority of the AI viewing audience. Not just because of his sexuality, but also because he wasn’t from the South, which tends to vote heavily for their home state contestants. It was like there were parallel AI universes. The AI voting audience in one, which worked against Adam, and the media and perhaps the judges in the other, who rooted for him. Adam said in one interview, he felt the judges were supporting him at times in order to make people (the AI audience) feel like it was ok to like him. I think he broke even in the end and made it to the finale. Kind of an unusual season in that regards.

    I wonder if we will ever see anything like that again? Perhaps we will as we have yet to have an Asian winner or runner up or a Hispanic winner. Still room for some more firsts on the show.

  176. Yes, undercooked, I see what you’re saying about the “parallel universes”–but then, couldn’t you say Kris had the opposite problem: he had the voting bloc but not the support of the judges/media? And wouldn’t having the judges/media in your corner be important for how your AI journey (and post-AI career) gets “spun” to the larger non-AI audience?
    I would say, in the end, Allison was the true underdog–she didn’t have the voting audience or the judges’ favor . . . .

  177. Just chiming in to offer thanks for the chart year explanations. I only just learned what it’s all about now, the result being I can further appreciate the kind of success that these guys have.

  178. So, let’s go back to square one. SuBo and Adam have to the top 2 highest debuts of any new artist in CALENDAR YEAR 2009.

    Yep! Sounds good to me! Adam being the second highest debut artist in 2009 sounds just fine also! That’s how the general public thinks…January to December 2009 is the year 2009.
    The rest of the talk is just talk. At the end of this year (Dec. 2009) the media will be talking about SuBo being the highest seller. They aren’t going to wait until next year (Dec. 2010) to point this fact out or talk about her amazing numbers. So, I’m going with them!

    On my way home tonight I stopped at a Walgreens. Sitting right on the check-out counter was a cd stand that had “Today’s Hottest Hits” across the top. The pictures under the caption were of Adam, SuBo, Carrie and Kris. All the Adam and SuBo cds were gone. I didn’t know they were selling FYE at Walgreens!

  179. And to answer your question, Cook ended up with the 14th bestselling album overall in the 2009 Billboard Chart Year.

    Oh. *14*

    (Or has he already denied this is the number behind the tat?)

    Succumb.

    No.

    Resistance is futile.

    Wanna bet?

    Adam IS the next big thing

    Good for him! But he’s going to have to do it without my $12.99. :-)

  180. I think the bloom is off Idol with Carrie really being the only Idol around that can still dominate the charts. I’d say the whole kareoke reality show thing was DOA except for the incredible success of SuBo.

    Both Adam and Kris are turning into Jordin type artists who will need radio hits to keep moving their albums. Idol can’t even guarantee sales of 500K for the winner let along the one million seller every season has produced so far.

    Well, I’m not sure I’d call this change the bloom being off the rose, just because that particular rose was an illusion to begin with.

    Back when the tv show was new, Idol watchers were excited about their new toy, and when an Idol produced an album, the tv watchers rushed out and bought it — not because the tv audience was ever a committed bunch of music buyers or music lovers, overall, but because that first album was a souvenir of a person that they’d fallen in love with while watching tv. That became pretty obvious when you saw what happened to these folks with successive albums. Some were able to sustain the adoration of their tv-watcher fans for a bit longer than one album, but that adoration didn’t necessarily translate into their getting much respect from the music industry or music (rather than tv-show) fans.

    So it was never as if Idol automatically produced singers/artists/entertainers who were among the greatest actual *music* launches of each year. What it produced were folks that a particular tv audience crushed on and bought souvenirs of. Now that the show is no longer a shiny toy for tv watchers, they aren’t as excited and so aren’t following up on their watching by buying the souvenir.

    To me, the show has now just turned into what I always hoped it would be from the beginning — a singing contest that tosses some talented kids to the top of the heap, gets them recording contracts, and some public and media attention. And then they can launch careers that are much more like the *usual* music career — in which you build your skills and your audience over a bit of time, not explode out of the gate on the basis of stuff that has *nothing* to do with the music (and if we doubt that, let’s remember the actual *quality* of many of those Idol debut albums from the past — pure crap. Taylor’s album, anyone?).

    Without the buy-a-souvenir-from-your-beloved thing — which hsa gradually ended as the show’s novelty as television has worn off — the Idols are now beginning careers much more in the same way as other people do, where you either do well or not so well with your first album, where you either attract critical acclaim or not, tempt new audiences or not, etc.

    The question is whether 19/Sony can actually accept this change and still give the Idols a chance to start their careers — *without* that huge initial boost. Actually, I think that what’s happened this year is kind of a sign that maybe they sort of do realize this and thus can and will support these guys as more like your average artist. In many seasons past, they clearly didn’t care at all about those first “souvenir” albums — they put out crap, didn’t make much if any effort to make albums that were true to what the Idols were like, etc. But I feel as if we’re seeing that less in recent years, and, especially, this year, where Kris’s and Adam’s albums are good (to me, anyway) and really do reflect the guys. … I wonder if that means that the companies here now realize that they can’t bank on souvenir sales for a quick buck so much and need to bank more instead on the longer-term viability of the artists they’re picking through the process.

    Not that I expect the show to run many more seasons, lol!

  181. If Adam is an underdog, who’s he an underdog to? It’s certainly not Kris, because post-AI he just was not treated as the winner by 19 or the press for that matter. The huge difference in hype and promo was cringeworthy. My husband who watched last season, but doesn’t follow any of the kids post-show, saw Kris on SYTYCD last week and said, “Oh there’s the winner that everyone forgot” [*fastforward*]. So if not Kris, who is Adam supposed to be an underdog to?

  182. Lucy, I really like your post, it makes sense to me. let’s hope that AI continues, though, since, like MJ, I love that cheesy show :)

  183. Keel, you know, I think that Adam is an underdog to … Adam. He has said it many times that he had never imagined to go so far on the show. He always appreciates every praise he gets with a little surprise. When Ellen told him he looked gorgeous in person, he made a face like “really, I don’t think so”. As for Kris’ not being pushed after AI, well he seems to be doing fine, he is just not controversial and OTT like Adam, so he will not get as much attention.

  184. Lucy — completely agree with your post above. Idol is now in its 9th year. It is not a shiny new toy and people are no longer running to buy their souvenirs. Idol has, however, demonstrated itself to be a pretty decent breeding ground for successful entertainers. Some go on to be big recording stars a la Kelly, carrie, daughtry, some go on to successful acting or broadway careers, some have modest performing and recording success — but most of the contestants have better careers post idol than pre idol. And I agree that in a more challenging recording business, Sony has had to start to look at its signed artists coming off the show differently — no longer just make a quick buck with a shoddy product, but as a new artist with a ready-made fan base that needs to put out a good product and build as any new artist. I doubt that Idol will last for more than a few more seasons, but I think the expectations for Kris and Adam (and Cook and Archuleta) on the part of RCA/Jive are much different than they would have been a few years ago. As discussed above, Adam has the second highest selling calendar year 2009 debut, he is a media darling and WWFM seems to be taking off. He wouldn’t have had that absent idol. Kris’ single is doing well and his debut, while not selling as well as Adam’s seems to be selling well vis a vis other jive label debuts…so i am sure that both Jive and RCA are more than pleased with the results of their respective idols. its a different world today than it was in 2003

  185. If Adam is an underdog, who’s he an underdog to? It’s certainly not Kris,

    The Idol contest is over, they are in the real world now. The only time we could really make a direct comparison between the two of them was in May on the finale night.

    In the real music world, I think they are both sort of underdogs. The American Idol “stigma” is not always a good thing when you are trying to sell your music to the general public. American Idol gave them a huge opportunity but now they have to forge their own paths among all the other artists.

  186. I rarely write here, but I just had to, because statements that “Adam is the underdog of AI season 8” are LMAO. He had the pimp spot throughout the entire competition, even then media and other celebrities loved him (TMZ was stallking him to learn if he’s gay, one magazine did a story about him during competition, Kate Perry performed on the show with the cape that was saying Adam Lambert). Saying that he’s an underdog because of him being gay is also silly. Him being openly gay got him tons of publicity that him being heterosexual would never got him! He’s the brand new shiny toy and his AMA’s performance only spiced him up – made him controversial. Magazines and shows want him, he hangs out with other celebrities (like Samantha Ronson, Keisha), Perez pimps him anyway he can. Come one, people. Kris, the winner, the small town guy who didn’t even plan to try out for Idol and just went on a roadtrip with he’s brother and friend that tried out – him I believe when he says he never imagnined to go this far. Allison, the 16 years old high schooler of salvadorian descent who’s netiher slim nor very beautiful, with a husky voice unlike that of usual female top12 contestants, who behaved like an uncensored teenager as she is – her I believe too. So what if she won the telemundo show 2 years ago – her vocals then were much worse and her comptetition was terrible. And you’re saying that Adam, a guy with a remarkable vocals (range), good looks, great stage presence and fashion sense, who had over 10 years of experience on stage and in singing, very articulate, who tried to please the crowd throughout the entire competition (unlike now, when he’s polarazing) never imagined he would go that far!? bs…

  187. Lucy, I really like your post, it makes sense to me. let’s hope that AI continues, though, since, like MJ, I love that cheesy show :)

    Me, too!

    Besides, if AI ends, what’s mj going to call her blog??

  188. The underdog sub-theme here got me thinking…
    I’ve never been a “fan” of someone before this year (I don’t even watch tv – I watched Idol this year as a favor to my family).

    I don’t think I’d have become the kind-of Adam fan that I am now if I didn’t perceive him as an underdog. Both his androgyny and his sexual orientation are aspects of him that I deeply respect and that will count against him in American culture. I’m a Christian and more than a little apalled at how my tradition is used to justify hate.

    All this has beeen said before, but for many Adam fans, this is where a deepseated underdog awareness comes from. The support he has is *IN SPITE* of his underdog status… some arises from his talent, some arises folks who simply like him, and some arises from folks who are passionate about the real social issues…

  189. I doubt that Idol will last for more than a few more seasons, but I think the expectations for Kris and Adam (and Cook and Archuleta) on the part of RCA/Jive are much different than they would have been a few years ago. As discussed above, Adam has the second highest selling calendar year 2009 debut, he is a media darling and WWFM seems to be taking off. He wouldn’t have had that absent idol. Kris’ single is doing well and his debut, while not selling as well as Adam’s seems to be selling well vis a vis other jive label debuts’ ¦so i am sure that both Jive and RCA are more than pleased with the results of their respective idols. its a different world today than it was in 2003

    I agree. Hope that we’re right about this. To me, these are four very worthy guys who are worth the companies taking the chance.

  190. And you’re saying that Adam, a guy with a remarkable vocals (range), good looks, great stage presence and fashion sense, who had over 10 years of experience on stage and in singing, very articulate, who tried to please the crowd throughout the entire competition (unlike now, when he’s polarazing) never imagined he would go that far!? bs

    Adam had a lot of experience that suggested to him that he might *not* go that far, seems to me….

    Not that he wasn’t well aware that he had significant talents and skills.
    But he’d been in the theater world for years, and he clearly has a great musical theater voice, lots of skills, good looks, and frequently blew everybody else out of the water on stage (see the Ten Commandments video for evidence of this), and yet he wasn’t getting all that far in theater, had even been told he was “too gay,” and such. In *musical* *theater* — where we *expect* everybody to be gay! He’d also been trying to break into popular music for a while, and clearly that wasn’t going too well, either.

    Yeah, he knew he had ‘stuff” — but I think he had plenty of reason to wonder whether his stuff would ever be deemed the “right stuff.” ….

    I’m sure that he’d also heard the stories of years on AI gone by when openly gay folks were reportedly told to shut up about it and pretend they were straight, like Anwar Robinson, for example. And since Adam planned to present as gay — if not make a public, specific announcement on the show — I’m sure he wondered about that, too.

    Honestly, I kind of expect that it’s the more experienced Idol contestants who are among those with the most skepticism about whether they’ll make it.

    When you’ve been struggling and fighting to break into music for years, honing your skills, performing everywhere you can, making contacts, etc., without getting into the big time, you learn that a) you may not be what the industry is looking for and b) there are *tons* of very very talented, hardworking people out there slugging away all over the country who will be tough tough competition for you for one of those top spots. I suspect that the more experienced folks like Adam, David Cook, Taylor, Melinda, Mandisa, Ruben, and so on may well have had *more* doubts about their viability in the competition, because they, more than young innocents like Megan or Anoop, for example, have learned very well how steep are the odds, no matter how talented you are and how hard you try.

    I’m not exactly saying that that makes Adam an “underdog.” But to say that it’s bs that he was in doubt about whether he’d do well on the show??? No way. He had more reason to doubt than most of the others, who were more innocent of the ways of the music world and more innocent of how very very big that world is and how many many people are struggling in it — *and* he knew that many of those struggling didn’t have what is still the big curse and stigma of the world today, being gay, while he did.

    I say again, as I’ve said on some other threads: I’ve observed the music and the regional theater world for a long time, and I know how many extremely talented openly gay men are involved in it, many more than the 10 percent that’s purportedly the level of gay guys in the population. …. So when I look at the top echelons of music and theater, I can’t help but wonder. Where the hell are those guys? There has to be some reason why there is not even a good solid 10 percent visible there. It’s not lack of skill, talent, or desire for success that’s keeping them out. But something is. …. Adam had good reason to notice this, too.

  191. I don’t see how getting publicity for being gay from media could help you in American Idol at all. Kris was there dream winner for what he represents Christian white male, good looking in a non threatening way and from the south. His song selection choices were very smart for the American Idol show. Allison was an underdog definitely as well as Adam. If you look at the last two seasons with two males in the finale, plus being a teen puts you at a disadvantage cause older viewers can’t relate as well to teens and plus a female rocker has never won. If Allison had waited a couple years and sang more ballads, she might have won. I don’t think a person of Latin or Asian heritage has ever won AI either.

  192. lucy, again, I love your post – very well put :)
    Adam has said numerous times that he really appreciated people who liked him, even though he “is a little weird”. He knows, as well as Gene Simmons (although I don’t like him) and as others who work in the entertainment business, how hard it is for an openly gay artist to make a career. I love him for his voice, obviously, but also for his fierceness, courage, great heart, sense of humor and loyalty to friends. I really keep my fingers crossed for him and look forward to his coming to Europe :)

  193. It’s certainly not Kris, because post-AI he just was not treated as the winner by 19 or the press for that matter.

    I will never understand the claim that Kris was not treated as “the winner” by 19 or the press. Kris got everything that any other winner has ever received (eg recording contract, closing the idol tour, appearances on various tv shows), in the aftermath of the finale he was on a whole bunch of late night and daytime talk shows that Adam wasn’t on, he has had a ton of newspaper and magazine articles written about him, he has his fanboys at MTV and EW drooling over his every move, his album has been advertised all over the place in magazines and on the internet etc. What else should he have received that he did not get?? I think your complaint is less that Kris was not treated as the “winner” (which he clearly was) as that Adam did not disappear from public view, 19 signed him (which they have signed more than the winner almost every year), and the media remained interested in him.

  194. David Cook sold 811,433 in calendar-year 2008, and 445,500 so far in calendar-year 2009. His 2009 chart-year total was 1,233,398. Different tracking periods, different totals.

    And before someone points out that the math doesn’t add up, Billboard has a rule that they stop counting sales for the chart year once an album has fallen out of the BB200.

    As someone who followed the numbers closely, a a further complication I’ve noticed is that even when the sales outside of BB200 are included, sometimes different charts still can give different numbers. The difference may be small but puzzling to some.

    For example, from last week YTD charts posted by 2 different people –

    16 EPIC JACKSON*MICHAEL ESSENTIAL MICHAEL JACKSON 1,077,488

    16 – 1,077,438 – THE ESSENTIAL – Michael Jackson

    Only a small difference, but I have seen differences before of many hundreds in those charts occasionally. Some charts can even show negative sales from one week to the next. LadyM gave a 2008 sales figure of 811,433 for David Cook, but the figure I have is 811,667. Why? I have no idea, perhaps the numbers are from different charts, perhaps they keep adjusting the figures of the same chart and updating them (so different people grabbing the numbers at different time can get something slightly different), perhaps some Soundscan charts add extra sales outside of normal sources (say, Christian bookshops which apparently can change some figures by many thousands for some artists). It does get very confusing, but to me, as long as I do something consistently then the figures will give a general idea what the number is like when I do the tracking of David Cook’s album sales.

  195. In my opinion, the media circus around Adam is only beneficial for Kris. It feels like Adam stole the idol crown from Kris by being the medias clear favourite (and yes I KNOW Kris won, relax). Adam then proceeded to crush this crown at the AMA’s (sucky or not).

    So what remains? Two artist free to slowly build up their career and a missing idol crown. Neither Kris nor Adam will ever diss the opportunity they got from AI but right now, to me, they feel more free from the idol stamp than the Davids for example.

    I think Alison is the one most stuck right now.

  196. I have a hard time imagining TPTB treating the AI8’ers and future top finishers like complete unknowns breaking into the business. There are two glaring differences between these folks and regular newbies, regardless of the downtrend in industry sales: 1. They are sinking massive amounts of money into them that the average newbie does not get for promotion, finding name producers and songwriters and top-notch appearances for them. 2. They have initial fanbases that were large enough to propel them to the top of the competition. Most newbies have nothing like this.

    \These two factors mean they will never be treated like a regular newbie, as long as they are true. Perhaps expectations will be less stratospheric due to economic changes, but they will still be large.

  197. I don’t think the relatively modest success of the AI8 class can simply be attributed to boredom with the AI franchise.

    I don’t think that’s the whole story either. I think that, when you compare them to the big names — Kelly, Carrie, and Daughtry — it’s that, plus the fact that none of them fits precisely into a high-selling niche, less so than usual, actually.

    There’s no male counterpart out there to Adam at all, right now, in the U.S. at least, so there aren’t a lot of people with ears for his kind of album who will immediately pick it up as something that fits right into their playlist, the way people who like the Nickelbackish sound might gravitate right to Daughtry and lovers of female country singers would gravitate right to Carrie (and Kellie P.)

    And while Kris does fit the niche of good looking guy sings kind of thoughtful soft rock — which I would say is much more of a currently established niche than Adams — I wouldn’t say it’s a really really top selling niche. I don’t see anybody in that niche selling a ton of albums or going top 10 on top 40 radio, for the most part. Kelly, Carrie, and Daughtry did fit into very very high-selling niches.

    Even the two Davids fit the musical landscape a bit better than Adam and Kris, to me, with Cook fitting in nicely with a lot of fairly popular rock acts and Archie having a bit of the sweet-young-unthreatening-guy-with-pretty-pop-voice thing going on.

    But when it comes to comparing them to people like Taylor, I do think that most of the issue is the souvenir phenomenon, plus the fall-off in overall music sales. I don’t believe that Taylor’s sales had anything to do with what the public in general was interested in listening to in large numbers, really. And yet he had that huge initial boost. I’m sure a lot of people who bought Taylor’s album really do like his style of music, but I think a heck of a lot of others were mainly souvenir buyers, and he clearly didn’t pick up much additional support outside of Idol, at all.

    I never said they would be treated *exactly* like other newbies, by the way. Just that I thought they would have to be treated *more* like regular newbies than previously, give current conditions.

  198. The Idol contest is over, they are in the real world now. The only time we could really make a direct comparison between the two of them was in May on the finale night.

    I am so glad someone finally said this.

    In the real music world, I think they are both sort of underdogs. The American Idol ‘stigma’  is not always a good thing when you are trying to sell your music to the general public. American Idol gave them a huge opportunity but now they have to forge their own paths among all the other artists.</blockquote>

    So true.

  199. Neither Kris nor Adam will ever diss the opportunity they got from AI but right now, to me, they feel more free from the idol stamp than the Davids for example.

    ITA-To me they don’t seem connected to AI like the Davids, and in the long run, this is probably good for both Kris and Adam. I do think part of it is because of Adam acting so very UNLIKE an AI winner/runner up. I think Kris benefits also from NOT having a passionate AI fan base as it allows him to gather new fans not associated with AI. The finale for the Davids was very emotional and people were really invested. This year, many Adam fans thought he would lose despite believing he deserved to win (this is where the underdog thing comes in) and when Kris won, after AI, many voters seemed to have the “well good luck there Kris, glad you beat Adam” and then they checked out..

    I find Kris and Adam to have the exciting future because they both are not following any normal AI patterns here. In the long run, I think they will have solid careers because of it. But I do see them more as “newbies” than previous idols.

  200. And you’re saying that Adam, a guy with a remarkable vocals (range), good looks, great stage presence and fashion sense, who had over 10 years of experience on stage and in singing, very articulate, who tried to please the crowd throughout the entire competition (unlike now, when he’s polarazing) never imagined he would go that far!? bs

    And I’m saying that this perspective has the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Without Paula’s initial support (and to a lesser degree, Randy’s) and without Simon and Kara moving off of the “theatrical” meme, I seriously doubt we’d be posting about Adam’s album sales today.

  201. I really don’t care who was the underdog and who wasn’t. It’s wierd that so many people do. Obviously, this is one of the reasons Kris won- because he was percieved as underdog (whether he really was or wasn’t).

    Anyway- since this is a numbers thread- thought I’d say that someone on the other thread said that Adam’s WWFM made top 40! That’s good, right??

  202. I am a little lost with all these charts, which is the most important one? the Billboard?

  203. Has Kris sold 200K CD’s. Maybe the fault lies with the producers and judges who select the contestants on the local level. Could be that their evaluation of who and what will be successful is not on mark.

  204. Maybe the fault lies with the producers and judges who select the contestants on the local level. Could be that their evaluation of who and what will be successful is not on mark.

    Well, if there were anybody out there who actually could predict who will sell biggest and how exactly to put together that person’s album with the right collaborators and such to do so, I think we’d probably see some record label or other — the one that employed this wizard — having the top hits all the time! But we don’t. The idea that this is very predictable, especially when you’re both scanning the ranks of the tons and tons of undiscovered talent that’s out there *and* trying to recruit the cast of a reality-tv show that will score big ratings at the same time, seems very unlikely to be true, to me.

    Plus, that assumes that there’s only one reason to make and sell music — to appeal to the lowest, mass, common denominator of musical taste and thus sell a gazillion albums. …. There are many many musical tastes and many many musical niches, some huge, some large, some medium-sized, and some tiny. I think the world would lose a lot if the industry tried to do *nothing* but dredge up the hugest sellers. The huge whopping majority of the best music does not fall into that category today, and i don’t know that there are a lot of people in the music industry who would really opt for letting all that music go by the boards just to produce one more Britney or Susan Boyle each year.

  205. Maybe the fault lies with the producers and judges who select the contestants on the local level. Could be that their evaluation of who and what will be successful is not on mark.

    When people are chosen to appear on AI they aren’t necessarily chosen because they are the best singers. That is probably one of the biggest misconceptions out there about the show. The show is cast for good TV. The participants are cast because of back stories or because they cause on screen drama, etc. Look back at all 8 seasons and I’m sure you can pick out at least 3 or 4 from each season that are just mediocre singers. The producers knew that going in but cast those people probably because they felt there was something compelling about them that would cause people to watch the show. Of course that doesn’t discount the really good singers that made it through but if you look at them, the majority have some story that the producers have spun as well.

  206. One last thought here. These record companies are publicly owned entities. The CEO’s are obligated to try and turn a profit for the shareholders. Being a nice guy, assume who you want, is not going to cause them to produce another CD if the artist cannot sell CDs. It just will not happen.

  207. “” rarely write here, but I just had to, because statements that ‘Adam is the underdog of AI season 8’ ³ are LMAO. He had the pimp spot throughout the entire competition, even””

    I LOVE Adam and never ever thought of him as the underdog, I havent read all these comments but who could mistake him for that, Kris was the underdog who came from behind to win but in the end Adam is the true winner here by way of his sales, etc and the fact that he is not saddled with the title of American Idol is great. Kris needed this win to get him out there so that we could continue to enjoy his wonderful voice, Adam just needed the exposure to show us how truly great he is and it worked

    “”I really don’t care who was the underdog and who wasn’t. It’s wierd that so many people do. Obviously, this is one of the reasons Kris won- because he was percieved as underdog (whether he really was or wasn’t).

    Anyway- since this is a numbers thread- thought I’d say that someone on the other thread said that Adam’s WWFM made top 40! That’s good, right??”””

    REally, me too, I cant believe I got sucked up in that again for a minute, cant believe it was brought up again, thanks MR for being us back to what this thread is about!

  208. LadyM gave a 2008 sales figure of 811,433 for David Cook, but the figure I have is 811,667. Why?

    Because I made an ooops and left off his 234 in street violations when I copied that sum out of my spreadsheet. Sorry for the confusion – way too late to edit my original post!

  209. You know who’s the underdog? Ricky Braddy.

    Ricky Braddy good singer… lousy performer. He wasn’t even in the running there not an underdog.

  210. Whoa! I asked “who is Adam an underdog to?” question because there were people saying that his numbers were great especially given that he’s an underdog. I couldn’t understand where his underdog status came from so I asked. It didn’t pop up out of the blue, but rather came from what Adam fans were saying.

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