American Idol Alum, Glee Stars, and More Respond to Connecticut School Tragedy

Read today’s  twitter responses to today’s tragic events in Newton Connecticut from Glee stars and  alums from American Idol, X Factor and The Voice

I’m going to start off with The Voice, because Blake Shelton is getting his butt kicked for his pro-gun reaction: The “stand guard and defend” tweet has since been deleted.  Oh Blake.

Blake Shelton: The killing of defenseless people and innocent children. I’m sad and sickened. This is why we all should be prepared to defend and guard. Stand strong and stand united everyone… We are Americans and we are better than this. What a sad sad disgusting day this is…My heart is so heavy right now… I can’t shake it off.

Javier Colon: My heart is heavy w/the news of the Newtown school shooting in my home state. So senseless! Sending prayers to all those families. WTF is wrong w/people!? Why on earth would someone harm innocent kids! Makes me fucking FURIOUS as a father. Heart goes out to those parents.

Nakia: Much love and many prayers to Newtown, CT Media should NOT be interviewing the children at that school today. They should be with their families and talking with counselors.

Dia Frampton: woke up to a pretty day in LA & then heard about the Newtown shooting. I feel sick. 27 dead, 18 children…more wounded. I don’t understand

American Idol alum

Danny Gokey: I think its time we reinstate God & Prayer back into our schools and in our country.

Alex Trugman responds to Danny@dannygokey Lack of prayer in school is not what leads to this sort of thing. People can have morality without institutionalized religion

And Adam Lambert’s brother, Neil Lambert, weighs in!: yes yes, .@dannygokey no one has ever killed in the name of God you fucking moron.

Jessica Sanchez: My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone affected by the tragedy in Newtown!! :(

Phillip Phillips: My prayers and thoughts go out to the families who lost their loved ones today. Such a heart breaking event. Need more love and peace

Heejun Han: 5am here in korea..prayers goes out to victims of tragedy…

Erika Van Pelt: We will never rid the world of cruel and evil human beings, but our power will always come from pulling together when the skies are dark.

Hollie Cavanagh: My heart is broken for all the victims and their families of the Connecticut shooting, you will be in my prayers through this horrific time

Kris Allen: It’s really sad to see what happened in CT today. My prayers go out for you.

Kevin Covais: So we have reached the point where kids can’t be safe at school? What the hell is wrong with people? Just so sickening.

Anthony Fedorov: Praying for all those involved with this horrible shooting in CT…

Jason Castro: Sometimes, words are not enough… Praying for the families in CT.

Blake Lewis: Today is a sad day. My heart goes out to all victims families in The Connecticut shooting. I can’t believe this has happened again.

Todrick Hall: Let us all stop thinking about how cute we look in our instagram pics for one moment, & pray for the families who lost their children today

Katharine McPhee: I’m so saddened over the shootings in CT. In light of such an evil act, #PrayForNewton.

Constantine Maroulis: I’m jus gettin the news about this horrible tragedy.. Malena will be starting school in a couple of years. Makes me cringe. #guncontrol

Chris Richardson: My heart pours out to the families who lost their children today too such a senseless and selfish act of violence. I’m truly saddened

Diana DeGarmo: Seeing the devastating news about Newton, CT. It’s so hard to comprehend. I cannot pray enough for those children & families.

Justin Guarini: #guncontrol

Tim Urban: Unbelievably heartbroken for the people in Newtown Connecticut. 26 people killed in a horrible tragedy. #PrayForNewtown

Matt Giraud: So so sad for these kids and staff at this school shooting in Connecticut. An elementary school?!?! So angry. It’s a new low. Wow…

Brandon Rogers: My heart goes out to all the families in CT. People can truly be horrible to each other. So many young lives cut short.

Stefano Langone: Wow, just heard about the school shootings… God be with everyone involved and their families. A true tragedy..

Jordin Sparks: Those precious children…I will never understand the evil in this world. On my knees praying for those families. I am in tears.

Brooke White: There’re days that you want to lock the door and hide under the bed with your family. This world is as broken as it is beautiful.

RJ Helton: Sending a prayer to the families and victims of the elementary shooting this morning in Connecticut. Devastating.

Katie Stevens: Im devastated to hear of the shooting at a Newtown Elementary this morning. Praying for the poor children and families affected by this evil. Nothing justifies this. Nothing. No mental imbalance… This is just pure evil. Love each other people, take care of one another. #prayforCT…We need to start at home. End the violence. Require people to get help if they have violent tendencies or have lost hold of reality.

Taylor Hicks: Praying for the families and victims in Connecticut.

Anthony Fedorov: Another school shooting?! What the f**k is going on with our country???!!!!!!! This is ridiculous!!!!!!! People are fu****g crazy man!!!

Alex Trugman: When it’s easier to get a gun than it is to vote, something is extremely fucked up. This should not be a controversial stance.

Kimberley Locke: OMG another school shooting?! This time in CT! What is wrong with people?! #horrified #cnn

Mandisa: Got off the bus & saw about the #CTshooting. Praying Is. 66:12 over CT. “God’s message: As a mother comforts her child,so I’ll comfort you.”

Bucky Covington: Thoughts and prayers to the victims and survivors in the CT tragedy… such horrible news.

Lee DeWyze: I’m sick to my stomach over the shooting.The victims, the children, their families.. I can’t even imagine what they’re going through… My prayers, and all of our thoughts and prayers should be with them, and to what the families will have to go through, and for the lives..That were lost. Senseless, and horrible. My heart goes out to all those families. Talk to you later guys.

Alexis Grace: ‘m so disturbed by what’s happened today in CT. My daughter is the same age as those children. I wish there was something I could do.

Pia Toscano: Children are so innocent & loving.. How could anyone hurt them, let alone take away their lives.. So disappointed in the world we live in.

Carrie Underwood: All my thoughts, prayers and deepest sympathies go out to the families in CT dealing with this tragedy. There are no words…

Jennifer Hudson: Yal, we need to pray! This can’t keep happening . My mama always said ” if u think you’ve seen it all just keep on living”.

Melinda Doolittle: Sitting here in shock, disbelief and tears as I read about those babies in Connecticut. I just don’t get it. Praying for everyone affected.

Michael Sarver: Lost my breath today hearing of the school shooting and those babies lives cut so short. Can’t wait to hug my babies! I feel angry inside to be honest! Not that I can do anything but geez! I wish the news wouldn’t even say the shooters name. Who cares what his name is. What about the names of those babies instead!?!

Lauren Alaina: Sending out lots of prayers to the families involved in the Newton Elementary School tragedy. My heart goes out to you. #trustinGod

David Cook: Just now seeing the news out of CT. Absolutely gut-wrenching. My thoughts and sympathies go out to all those impacted.

Phil Stacey: Just heard about the shooting in CT. This is the single most horrible tragedy of our time. God help us. Why children? Worse than terrorism.

Clay Aiken: Prayers for those affected by today’s horrific events. My heart hurts for the parents! Heaven is too crowded with new angels today. Let’s encourage the media to not speak the name of the demon involved in today’s CT shooting. He deserves no recognition!

Michael Lynche: Inconceivable what happened in Conn. today. Praying for those sweet innocent souls and their families tonight.

Chris Daughtry: I can’t believe what I’m seeing on the news. I’m devastated. Truly devastated. My heart is broken and goes out to the families and children involved.

Ace Young: My heart goes out to the families that are hurt directly from the events that took place today. #SandyHookElementary

Adam Lambert: Sending energy to the families who are suffering this horrible tragedy…

Elliott Yamin#SandyHookElementary how many more kids in schools need 2 die b4 the lawmakers in the U.S wake up?…this is beyond tragic…no words!

Naima Adedapo:    My heart truly hurts 4 the children & families that fell prey 2 1 of the most vicious acts of crime 1 could think of ????. #Praying #Newtown

Bo Bice:  I’m stunned to hear of the tragedy in CT. My prayers are with all the families. God Bless you all.

Lacey Brown: I’m so saddened to hear about the Elementary School shooting just now. Praying for the families of this terrible event. My heart is so heavy.

Crystal Bowersox tweets: Had a bit of an emotional meltdown today. So sad about the madness.. I can’t even wrap my brain around it….If only mental health services were easier to get than guns….

Andrew Garcia: #PrayforNewton

Aaron Kelly: My deepest sympathy and prayers to the families and those lost in Connecticut

Didi Benami: Just heard about school shootings in Connecticut :*( all my love and prayers to everyone affected by this awful tragedy… Bless your souls

Jacob Lusk: Kiss your family and hold them tight. It could have been you. #prayfornewtown

James Durbin: What happened today is horrific & heartbreaking..I’m as shocked as anyone. My heart goes out to everyone affected #PrayForNewtown

Glee stars

Harry Shum Jr.: Praying for Sandy Hook, Newtown CT. There is no reason for this to ever happen. So sad and angry… Stop interviewing children for ratings.

Chris Colfer: It’s one of those days you wake up from a nightmare to an even scarier reality. When will prevention outweigh politics?

Damian McGinty: Sickening news about Connecticut. So sad. How it happened can’t be justified and something has to be done. The world is a scary place.

Diana Agron: Just hearing news of the Sandy Hook shooting. This is tragic & needs to stop. My heart goes out to all of those involved. #guncontrol

Amber Riley: Sitting here dumbfounded. Really an elementary school? Innocent children with no way to defend or protect themselves. What breed of scum…

Lea Michele: There are no words to express the sadness of this unthinkable tragedy. Sending my prayers to the families in Newton CT.

Kevin McHale: No words, this is a horrific tragedy. Thoughts are with all the children, parents & teachers.

Jenna Ushkowitz: My heart goes out to all the Families and children affected by the CT shooting. When will the violence end?

Samuel Larsen: It kills me to hear of the tragedy in CT. My prayers are with all of you.

Blake Jenner: All of my heart and prayers go out to all of the families of this involved in the shooting in Connecticut. So terrible. So sad.

Jacob Artist: Completely speechless. My heart goes out to all the people affected by this horrific tragedy. #PrayForNewton

Naya Rivera: This school shooting is making me sick to my stomach. My heart goes out to all of the families who lost precious little angels.

X Factor Alums

Demi Lovato: My heart is absolutely broken after hearing about the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary school.. Wow.. So terrible. Just in shock. WHAT is wrong with this world sometimes? Right before Christmas? My thoughts and prayers go out to Newton, CT

Melanie Amaro: Church ?? School ?? Next it will be our homes ! The enemy is stepping out and trying our faith ! How can someone be soo evil ??? The enemy is out to do one thing steal, destroy and KILL!!! I pray for this nation again today !! Our father who art in heaven ! I ask that you comfort the hearts of the parents and families of this terrible tragedy! If the enemy could be soo bold and attack the innocent…. Our children !! Oh God, I cry out and beg and plead to you for this nation

Rachel Crow#PrayForNewton http://instagr.am/p/TOxIITkWSI/

Britney Spears: My heart is with the children and families of Connecticut today… #PrayForNewton

  • ADRIANAARG1980

     Phillip Phillips
    ?@Phillips

    My prayers and thoughts go out to the families who
    lost their loved ones today. Such a heart breaking event. Need more love
    and peace

  • fantoo1

    I don’t want to get very political for this senseless tragedy, but I have to say this-even if the country adopted stricter gun control laws, this wouldn’t have stopped this psychopath(or the Aurora shooter) from doing this act. These criminals would still find a way to obtain guns.

  • 1Can

     clayaikenPrayers for those affected by today’s horrific events. My heart hurts for the parents! Heaven is too crowded with new angels today. :-(12-12-14 3:32 PM

  • girlygirltoo

    One of the families who lost a child in this shooting are friends of Javier Colon’s.

    javstwtr

    #Please pray for my friend & his family. I just found out they lost their daughter today in this horrible shooting. I’m ill w/grief for them.

  • Incipit

    >>3m David Cook ?@thedavidcook

    Just now seeing the news out of CT. Absolutely gut-wrenching. My thoughts and sympathies go out to all those impacted.

  • irockhard

    Heidi Durbin
    ?@MrsHeidiDurbin

    so sick and sad right now for the innocent children of todays CT shooting..

    Heidi Durbin
    ?@MrsHeidiDurbin

    my stomach is in a knot thinking about the parents
    and all the pain caused by this shooting, I will not stop praying.

     

  • http://twitter.com/desireechick Kesia Monteith

    OMG! I can’t even right now…

  • http://twitter.com/MissGolightly22 No Thanks

     They’ll always try.  But if there were stricter controls, maybe the system could have flagged a guy like him sooner and this could have been prevented.

  • Sara M

    Never mind, I reread what she wrote and softened my stance

  • Larc

    Adam Lambert@adamlambert

    Sending energy to the families who are suffering this horrible tragedy…

  • MV007

    It’s easy to say “we need stricter laws”.  And I’d be in favor of anything that would prevent a tragedy like this.  But my question is what laws can we enact that would prevent something like this?  Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t CT have some strict laws already? 

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    Even if stricter gun laws prevents just ONE of these tragedies from occurring, it would be totally worth it. This is not a zero-sum game. The logic shouldn’t be — well, because we can’t stop everyone, therefore we shouldn’t try and stop anyone. Crimes still happen even though there are laws against them. The idea is try to make it as hard as possible, not throw up your hands or … even worst logic, “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em!”

  • http://twitter.com/MissGolightly22 No Thanks

    Well, I’m no expert.  But longer more extensive background checks for everyone who tries to buy a gun.  Crack down harder on those people who sell weapons on the internet, etc…

    I’m sure advocates in favor of stricter gun control laws can give you a long, elaborate list of things that can be done.

    Like Sassycatz said, even if we can’t prevent ALL crimes, we sure as hell can try to cut down on the crime rate.  That’s where LAWS and LAW ENFORCEMENT come in.

  • mickivick

    You left Adam Lambert off your list:  He tweeted: “Sending energy to the families who are suffering this horrible tragedy…”

  • Larc

    Meaningfully stricter gun laws may not be possible without a Constitutional amendment.  As it is, the 2nd Amendment prohibits infringement of the right of the people to “keep and bear arms.”  Getting the necessary number of states to agree to an amendment repealing the 2nd may be difficult.  None of the 10 ratified Bill of Rights amendments has ever been repealed.

  • Karen C

    Yes, CT does have pretty strict laws. I live here, and any time I have heard of anyone legally getting a gun, there was a waiting period, background checks, etc.  I would think though that the police would have to find out if the gun was gotten legally or not.
    This is just horrible, I think it’s the worst thing that has happened in CT. 

  • MellyPer1692

    You know what? Look at the number of deaths by guns in countries that have gun control and our country. Then tell me gun control won’t help anything.

  • fantoo1

    Norway has strict gun laws, but they still had a mass shooting that killed 77 people and injured 319. If the killer is psychotic enough, he will do it.

  • MellyPer1692

    One. We’ve had 31 school shootings since Columbine in this country.

  • bridgette12

    Considering we are the most armed country in the world, I’m not surprised something like this haven’t happened before. We have a population of over 300,000,000 people and government statics show we own over 200,000,000 handguns. Handguns that’s easy for criminals, the mentally unstable and ordinary citizens to obtain both legally and illegally. 

  • MellyPer1692

    Naah, just interpret the amendment by utilizing the “well regulated militia” part of it. Our lawmakers have no problem interpreting the constitution to fit their purposes.

  • http://twitter.com/MissGolightly22 No Thanks

     Still less shootings than we’ve had in the US.

  • http://twitter.com/alienlifeform2 Diablo

    It’s easy to say “we need stricter laws”. But my question is what laws can we enact that would prevent something like this?

    Ones that don’t let people possess guns without being a) military  b) police c) verified hunters, and making the latter ones jump through a shitload of hoops like serious background checks and psych tests. The same stricter laws the countries in which 3 public shootings a year don’t happen have. Do we really need more reasons than this to change the constitution and fuck NRA? Maybe it’s time we actually started thinking of the children.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    The U.S. has 8 times as many homicides as Norway.

    There will always be exceptions and rare happenings. Statistics show that Norway is still a low-crime nation with a low murder rate.

     

  • irockhard

    19E employee:

    Josh Klemme
    ?@klemmehands

    A five-year-old’s right to their own life is more
    important than your right to own a gun. It’s not even close. That is
    all.

     

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ACMLXLYSSX73RNYQOUZWSO2I4U Enough already!

    Pointing fingers at people who believe in guns isn’t solving the problem, nor will it ever.   These are not the people who are shooting anyone, but believe in their right to bear arms.   The people who snap and do unthinkable things are not your ordinary citizens.    How do you stop a mad man when you have no idea this will happen until after the fact.  Just my opinion.  No I am not an NRA member. 

  • blackberryharvest

    Crystal Bowersox ?@crystalbowersox 
    Had a bit of an emotional meltdown today. So sad about the madness.. I can’t even wrap my brain around it….

  • milwlovesadam

    Even if in some new utopian version of the future the Constitution were amended, and it became very hard to buy a gun, and even if health care for the mentally ill were properly funded and even if every single person who were about to commit a heinous crime were prevented from doing so, we would still have 2 or 3 hundred million weapons in our country.

    I am absolutely sick at heart today. He killed babies. And his own mother.

  • http://twitter.com/alienlifeform2 Diablo

    Pointing fingers at people who believe in guns isn’t solving the problem, nor will it ever.   These are not the people who are shooting anyone, but believe in their right to bear arms. 

    Let me see: People who believe in their right to bear arms are responsible for laws that make guns be accessed easily. Guns being accessed easily are amongst things responsible for psychos who watch sensationalist news and think “I’ll just get a gun and kill everybody”. And those psychos go ahead and just get a gun and kill everybody.

    So yeah, pointing fingers at people who believe in guns and their right to bear arms? Valid.

    How do you stop a mad man when you have no idea this will happen until after the fact.

    You can make his job much much harder by restricting access to guns. If all those unbalanced people had to get heavily involved in the crime underworld in order to get a gun, half of them would give up or used a knife and injured 10 kids  instead of murdering 26.

  • Niall

    I’m all for the right to keep and bear arms as our founding fathers intended, meaning I have no issue with a musket in every home. An AK-47 or a semi automatic pistol? Not so much. Common sense has to prevail at some point. How many more slaughters have to occur for our people and representatives to grow a collective pair and stand up to the NRA thugs?

    We will always have nuts and sociopaths. We will always have violence. But do we have to make it so easy? When does a child’s right to come home from school alive take priority over the right to buy an AK47?

  • WestiesRule

    No… we are like the rest of this cockeyed country and anyone can have guns. Anyone can pass a background check and there is a waiting period. And if that doesn’t work you can go to New Haven nd buy one on the street. They were registered to his mother. Why did she need 4 guns? I live in a corner of a town that looks like Newtown, live in the woods and I don’t feel the need for a gun.

  • calliebeckett

    Apparently he wanted to kill what she loved? AKA: her students.

    All the guns were registered to his mother.

    How about we start with improving and expanding mental health services?

  • kmd23

      This such a horrible tragedy. So sad for everyone effected by these senseless shootings.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

    Yes, lets take away guns so that the criminals can kill even more of us, and one day when they decide to round up the “undesirables” people will be even more defenseless. The ones that want to give up theirs can feel free to go first, please.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

     Anyone can pass a background check? That is a false statement. You might feel the need for a gun someday if you are ever cornered and attacked by a PSYCHO. Or you can just call 911 and hope the cops get there in time.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

    Give me a break. Guns don’t cause people to kill. Why can’t people get this through their heads?

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

     Hmm…Diablo. How about we also put an end to violence in video games, and in movies, and on TV. Let’s also out law mental illness.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

    What about deaths by stabbing. Are knives outlawed? I know a lot of stabbings that have occurred and I don’t see any knife laws being enacted.

  • 1Can

     And Adam Lambert’s brother, Neil Lambert, weighs in!: yes yes, .@dannygokey no one has ever killed in the name of God you fucking moron.

     How classy.

  • Niall

    Neil Lambert is a bit of a hotheaded ass, but more than a few people pointed out the naïveté of the Gokster’s “God and prayer in schools” solution. Let’s face it: there’s a lot of violence done in the name of God, all around the world. I don’t think being religious makes you less likely to kill than someone who isn’t.

  • WestiesRule

    This is getting heated and unnecessarily rude. Unless you have a criminal history in CT you can pretty much get a gun. It’s just as easy to get one illegally. I don’t know what the answer is. As a teacher IN CT we were all briefed today as how to try to deal with the kids when we can hardly deal with it. As adults we have to be strong. Terrible, senseless things happen every day. It’s sick that innocent children had to be taken far too soon.

  • jpfan2

    It takes a long time to stab 20 little kids and 7 adults. Semi-automatic weapons do it much faster.  He could have also beat them to death but again that takes time. Why not be honest and say that maniacs armed with guns not knives are the problem.

  • 1Can

     It is not what he said but how it was said.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Let’s face it: there’s a lot of violence done in the name of God, all
    around the world.”

    Two words. The Crusades. One word. Jihad.

    “I don’t think being religious makes you less likely to
    kill than someone who isn’t.”

    Being religious can make you kill others who ARE religious, but who don’t subscribe to your particular religion. The Crusades.

    I’m sorry, but implying that not worshipping God enough or damning the murderer as some kind of “demon” is ridiculous. Severe mental illness is a tragedy, and this is just another horrible example of how people who are so ill can and will do horrific acts.

  • waynestrong

    Could have used a bomb to do it. Instructions on how to make are online. Are we going to outlaw all the bomb making ingredients too?

    Lets say he used a knife, that would mean he would make a few silent kills taking out the principal and office staff (may even make threats at knife point to get each of them to comply as he kills each one) then he can walk to the nearest classroom take out the teacher then lock or barricade the door. Everyone in that room would die if he wanted it to happen.

  • MellyPer1692

    I actually have no problem with how it was said. I think today’s events and stupid statements deserve some anger tbh.

  • iluvai

    This is just terribly sad. I’m not sure if it could have been prevented. But if I had a troubled young son I don’t think I would have guns in my home.  I was really proud of President Obama today when he spoke about the tragedy. Even though these kind of things are scarce, they are far too common. 

  • 1Can

     I actually disagree. Anger killed many innocent people today. Now is the time for remembering and healing. There is way too much anger in the world.
     

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    States in the US with .tTighter gun control laws correlates with less gun violence…. This was just said on MSNBC, quoted from an analysis of the issue.

  • waynestrong

    “But if I had a troubled young son I don’t think I would have guns in my home.”

    That is a very solid point and deserves to be repeated. If you have someone in your home who is disturbed or even not mature enough to handle having weapons in the house it may be a good idea to avoid owning them completely. This can be applied to other things like if you or your housemates are former/recovering alcoholics don’t have alcohol in the house, if you have young children you have to adjust your lifestyle (have a dog or not, have pool or not, keep lighters around or not) to keep them and your home safe.

  • iluvai

    This is really not the time to criticize (I’m talking about Neil criticising Gokey). This is just too raw and everyone should be allowed to express their feelings about the incident.

  • http://twitter.com/alienlifeform2 Diablo

    Let’s also out law mental illness.

    I’m all for. Outlawing mental illness is exactly the same as restricting access to guns, just as much in power of human authorities. I should have thought of it before. 

    What about deaths by stabbing. Are knives outlawed? I know a lot of stabbings that have occurred and I don’t see any knife laws beining enacted.

    How many massacres with the use of knives were there, and how many with the use of guns, again?

  • 1Can

     Never said he was not allowed to express.

  • iluvai

    I know. I don’t think you understood my comment. I agree with you.

  • iluvai

    There is a special “20/20″ at ten (eastern) about the shooting. I’m going to watch. I’m having a hard time wrapping my brain around this event.  :(

  • marmom07

    Even as a parent I can’t begin to imagine the pain and devastation these families are going through.

  • http://twitter.com/MissGolightly22 No Thanks

     “Give me a break. Guns don’t cause people to kill. Why can’t people get this through their heads?”

    I don’t think anyone said that.  They’re saying that guns make it EASIER for people to kill.  Quickly and en masse.  Yes, knives kill to, but I’m damn certain it’s easier to get away from and stop a knife wielding maniac than one with a couple of automatic weapons.

    As far as making bombs.  I’m pretty sure if people start buying large quantities of bomb making materials, they get flagged and checked out.

    Not so with guns.

    And I’d rather be protected by a TRAINED LAW ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONAL than some random yahoo with a gun who think he’s John Wayne.

  • iluvai

    Well it was a little mis-directed, imo. But I don’t want to make an issue out of it. Everyone is grieving and tolerance is needed right now.

  • fantoo1

    For how liberal he is, he sure is “open minded” and “tolerant” towards other beliefs. Sheesh.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

    Edit: Calm down.

  • marmom07

    I have not, do not and will never have guns in my house. Period. It is simple math – fewer guns equal fewer opportunities to kill with a gun. Legal or illegal, on purpose or by accident. When statistics show children are injured and killed because unsafe play ground equipment what happens? The equipment is removed and playgrounds are made safer. Should I be sad that children today can not play on a merry-go-round like I did in the 60’s? I wasn’t killed or injured using a that equipment that is now banned. But the evidence was too many were being hurt. When people are killed because of unsafe cars then safety things like air bags and seat belts are installed and required. Why? Because statistics show overall fewer people die or have serious injuries when cars have seat belts and air bags. Why are guns any different?

    How often to you hear about real cases where someone successfully defends themselves or family etc from harm using a gun? Not very often. How often are innocent children and adults killed by accident with legal guns? Every day. How often are people intentionally killed by legal guns? Every day. Treyvon in Florida would be alive today if his killer wasn’t carrying a gun and didn’t have the easy ability to use deadly force. Many others would be alive today like the football player who recently killed his girlfriend and then shot himself. Too many legal guns make it too easy to kill in an instant.

    You will not ever get rid of all illegal guns. But fewer guns mean fewer deaths. period. It’s that simple. even with regulation and waiting periods you can not predict who will have a future mental crisis and use those guns to kill people.

    I fully believe that if the NRA had real data that showed more people were successfully protected by legal guns than accidentally or intentionally killed or injured by legal guns they would show that statistic everywhere. I suspect the numbers are actually more like:  if one legal gun for every thousand legal guns is successfully used to protect people then one legal gun for every hundred legal guns is actually used to injure or kill people.

  • http://twitter.com/MissGolightly22 No Thanks

     Excellent points.

    Also, everyone is legally required to study the rules of the road and be trained on how to safely operate a vehicle before they’re legally allowed to drive.  But are people legally required to learn how to safely use a gun?  Or are required to use proper safety measures while having a gun on their person or on their property to make sure innocent people don’t get hurt?  I don’t think so.

  • marmom07

    When my daughter was two I got an apartment that was not in the “bad” part of town. I came home one night and there was a bullet hole in my dining room wall. A bullet had come from my neighbors apartment and into mine right at my head height. The police told me I would be surprised at how often accidental discharges occurred. I don’t know if the gun was legal or illegal and the people were evicted. Someone’s right to maybe protect themselves out weighs my right to be safe in my own home? I don’t think so.

    My daughter was in elementary school when we had the DC sniper event. A lady cleaning out her minivan at a gas station less than a mile up the road from her school was killed. Many of those who were killed by the snipers were less than 5 miles from my house. None of those people would have been saved if they or someone else was carrying a weapon.

    The police are specially trained to use guns and even they have times when they are not able to take down the criminal and times when they shoot and kill someone who was innocent. Why should untrained individuals be able to respond any better?

  • marmom07

    If gun enthusiasts want to go target shooting they can go to a shooting range where they can use the gun on the property for target practice and then turn the gun in. Like people do when they go to batting cages or driving ranges. Have a gun club for hunting in a controlled space but the guns do not go home.

  • marmom07

     well you can’t take knives on a plane, I can’t take one into work, you can’t take them into school……. yea there are rules about knives.

  • iluvai

    I don’t really want to enter the gun ownership debate, but you are making some good points. Recently in our newspaper there was the story of a father who was in the car with his son and the dad was on a trip/errand to sell the gun and it went off in the car and killed his 7 year old child. And many times a domestic dispute ends in gun fire. This is all so terrible and preventable in many cases. I think the family of the shooter in this case should never had guns available when they were aware that their son was troubled.   That is all.

  • milwlovesadam

    My state just passed concealed carry laws this year. There was a huge rush on gun purchases. There is a “law” that the gun owners must pass a class in order to have the guns legally.

    Yeah. Right. Except there aren’t enough classes. There aren’t enough teachers. There isn’t an up to date system to track all the guns/permits and classes taken.

    I’m not saying it is connected, but we just had two national and world-wide reported shooting events in my city; the Sikh Temple and the Salon shooting.

    One was perpetrated by an ex-military man. Who had proper gun training and a hate of certain people. He was armed to the teeth with automatic weapons, even trained police officers had a struggle to take him down. One was done as domestic violence against a woman with a restraining order. He killed others, then killed himself. Women in a spa don’t have weapons on them. He knew that.

    There was no way these men could have been stopped by a vigilante with a gun.
    No Way.

    There was no way the man today could have been stopped with a gun. The average person isn’t a sharp-shooter. The average person with a handgun in their purse can’t even get to the gun, much less stop someone with an automatic weapon.

    And, if teachers had guns at school, that is a recipe for disaster. All it would take is one curious kid and someone would be shot by accident.

  • marmom07

     In the last year or two there was a news story of a man here in VA who drove the family to the store and his wife got out to return a DVD to the red box. He had a legal gun on him and it went off. The father died right there in front of his family because his legal gun went off accidentally. It happens over and over again.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

    And again, it’s the responsibility of the gun owner. His fault. The gun didn’t magically take on a mind of it’s own. I wonder how many people die from being bad drivers. Maybe if people didn’t use cars these accidents could be avoided.

  • iluvai

    That’s really sad and awful.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

    Kids get the right to get behind the wheel of a vehicle capable of doing over 100 miles per hour at age 16.

  • jennyl2

    Guns are meant to kill. Even if its for protection, it still kills. Cars are meant to transport. I can’t comprehend the comparison. 

  • KatMyers

    I have no words for this tragedy.  It’s just incomprehensible.  What I find equally incomprehensible is continued defence of the sanctity of the second amendment.  I guess I never will get what is so sacred about the right to bear arms.  The NRA and its supporters say it isn’t guns that kill, it’s people.  That’s just playing with semantics, splitting hairs if you will.  Yes other objects (such as knives) can cause lethal injury but few can cause such levels of injury and death in so little time as guns.  And why anyone needs to own semi automatic or automatic weaponry is absolutely beyond me.  A hand gun is potentially bad enough, but assault weapons are just incomprehensible ….

    Someone who is intent on procuring a weapon will do so, with or without gun control – that is just a fact.  I am a Canadian and we have much stricter gun controls.  I found out a few months ago that the aunt and uncle of my daughter’s childhood best friend were raided and a multitude of weapons, smuggled in from the US were confiscated.  God only knows how many made their way to the hands criminals or mentally ill people, or how many have already been used in crimes or murders.  So yes, there are ways of procuring weapons if you are so inclined, and those that are prepared to accept the risks in order to profit from proliferating said weapons.  And the truth is, we don’t always know who those people are.  I never would have thought that I knew such people … it happens.

    What I also know is that per capita as well as in absolute terms, where there are stricter gun controls, there are significantly fewer gun related deaths.  No there is no fail safe method to prevent such occurrences but I just don’t understand how it can be argued that gun controls don’t help. 

    It is a fact that since Columbine, there have been twice as many mass shootings in the US as there have been in the entire rest of the world.  It is also a fact that the US is the only country in the western world without universal access to medical care.  I may end up regretting posting these comments but maybe there is some correlation to these 2 facts and the higher than normal incidence of gun violence.  Maybe with stricter gun control, better access to mental health and health care, these types of incidents would be fewer rather than increasing.  Maybe the countries with stricter gun controls and lower incidence of gun violence have accepted something the US is still struggling with:  Guns do actually kill and make it easier for people to cause critical injury to their fellow man.

  • milwlovesadam

     And I’m outta here with that. “Kids” at 16 have to take a class, pass a road test and a written test. Then go through graduated licensing in order to drive responsibly and legally. Of course they use bad judgement at times.

    But, a teacher bringing  a handgun to an elementary school for protection and having a five year old find it and shoot it off by accident is not quite the same thing. At all. Not a logical comparison.

  • iluvai

    I’m confused. I’m totally lost on the conversation I think.

  • MellyPer1692

    Adam during his set tonight:

    Today has been a hard day. What do we as artists say? I don’t really know. Lets come together. Lets celebrate life. Send out positive energy. Send out love. That’s all we can do right now.

    Then he sang “is this love”

  • marmom07

     Yes it is the gun owners fault but if the gun owner had no guns then they can’t be used to kill. Period. We incarcerate more people than any other country and it is clearly does not work to deter these types of crimes so another approach is needed.

  • iluvai

    I think all of these artists and celebrities have been so amazing in their support, but wow, I’m not surprised by Adam’s response. Lovely.

  • loveroftalent

    beautifully said…

  • HKfan

    So, so sad and tragic, sending prayers to everyone affected by this.

    How about just not allowing guns.
    I heard of a fb post this morning with the number of guncrimes for different countries this year, the UK had 8, the next higest to the US had 30 something, and the US had over 10,000

    Banning guns might not stop all tragedies like this, but it would certainly go a long way to reducing them….

  • blackberryharvest

      Colton Dixon ?@coltondixon So sad to hear about those lost in Connecticut today. Praying for those families and those affected…

  • marmom07

    Adam’s father tweeted:

    Miles Tougeaux
    ?@milestougeaux

    Make a law requiring all bullets sold/manufactured
    contain Pseudoephedrine. Then they would be as hard to buy in quantity
    as Sudafed.

    He has a valid point. We are far more restrictive with other less deadly things. It’s time to get rid of the guns.
     

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    An AK47 wasn’t used today. The shooter didn’t own any of the guns he used. 

    Eliminate the NRA and ban guns. The guns won’t go away. The ban will be just as effective as the bans on alcohol (prohibition) and illicit drugs (war on drugs).

    You would be fortunate to collect 10% of the 270,000,000 firearms presently in the United States.

  • KatMyers

    I’m pretty sure I saw that fb post you are talking about.  Here are the numbers (I checked & added population):

    Japan: 48 people (127.8M) or .00000038 per capita or 1 per 2,662,500
    Great Britain: 8 people (62.6M) or .00000013 per capita or 1 per 7,825,000
    Switzerland: 34 people (7.9M) or .00000043 per capita or 1 per 232,352
    Canada: 52 people (34.4M) or .00000151 per capita or 1 per 661,538
    Sweden: 21 people (9.4M) or .00000223 per capita or 1 per 447,619
    W. Germany: 42 people (63.2M) or .00000066 per capita or 1 per 1,504,761
    US: 10,728 people (311.5M) or .0000344 per capita or 1 per 29,036

    Pretty compelling stats if they are true (haven’t personally verified). 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    I bet you Neil Lambert would tell you that the War on Drugs is a losing proposition but banning guns is feasible. Talk about naïveté. 

  • marmom07

    The difference is it is illegal to go 100 miles an hour on US roads. You are right there is always going to be someone who will break that law and do something as stupid as speeding that fast but there are laws against it. Guns should be illegal also.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    Chicago bans guns. 

    December 3rd:

    “Chicago Shootings: 8 Killed, At Least 30 Wounded In Weekend Violence”

    November 18: 

    “Chicago Weekend Violence: 4 Dead, 22 Hurt As Death Toll Climbs”

    BTW, Mexico bans guns too.

  • blackberryharvest

    That whole Lambert family seems very opinionated.

  • KatMyers

    And the point is what?  That banning guns doesn’t work?  No it doesn’t when it’s done in one small part of the country while the rest does not … not like there is border control going into Chicago.  And as ineffective as border control may be, it does catch at least some smuggling.

  • marmom07

    Fewer guns means fewer opportunities to kill with a gun Period. It’s that simple. No it won’t end all violence and more must be done to deal with mental illness and all forms of domestic violence. But adding more guns only increases the statistics of more opportunities to kill (by accident or by intent). It’s unacceptable that people die every day by gun violence. Every day people are dying. Why is that acceptable? Very very very few legal or illegal guns in the hands of citizens actually prevent or stop a violent act.

  • marmom07

     Why shouldn’t they be? All the rest of us have opinions too!!

  • Kitwana

    KatMyers: it’s way too simplistic to look at those gun statistics and conclude that they result from gun laws. Other factors to be considered are: cultural factors (i.e. media, violent entertainment, role of family, church and community, permissive parenting and teaching), education, poverty, mental health care, unemployment, racism and discrimination, economic recession, court and justice system, prison system. The gun violence in the US is a sad consequence of all these factors. Hopefully, the US public and the media will take this opportunity to address these other serious issues instead of engaging in ultimately pointless name calling like that idiot Neil Lambert.

  • marmom07

     Yes Neil did some name calling that isn’t helpful at this point in time however I agree with his point that Danny Gokey’s tweet about adding “prayer and god” back to schools is not only pointless but very misguided.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    Mexico has one gun legal gun store and strict restrictions on gun ownership.

  • marmom07

     Mexico also has a very corrupt police force and government. There is no proof that they would have less gun violence if they legalized guns.

  • Montavilla

    Adding to that, I know many people find him controversial, but I would recommend anyone to watch Michael Moore’s Bowling for Columbine.

    He proposes some very interesting theories about why these mass shootings happen more often in America than in other countries — even those with higher rates of gun ownership.

  • KatMyers

    Oh I never for a minute suggested it was simple …. I also made mention of mental health care in a previous post.  But more lax gun laws south of the 49th are undoubtedly a contributing factor of some significance IMO.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    Criminal Rings Find Loopholes In Pseudoephedrine Limits

    …Detective Paul Lauko followed one of those smurfing rings in Phoenix as part of an investigation by Arizona’s High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area task force. He found 100 people buying boxes of pseudoephedrine and selling them to a few pill brokers.

    “They would go from anywhere from five to 10 to 15 stores a day,” Lauko said. “We later determined through our investigation that they were getting anywhere from $25 to $30 a box.”

    Typically, the medications cost anywhere from $6 to $10 at the pharmacy.

    The smurfers would work in small groups. To get around the legal limits, they would visit different stores that couldn’t track how much they had already purchased at other retailers. Or they used fake IDs.

    The ring could bring in several hundred, even thousands of boxes a week.??
    Lauko said the pill brokers would drive out to California’s Central Valley once-a-week to deliver the pills to Mexican meth cookers there who would make 10 pounds of meth a batch.

  • MellyPer1692

    Thank God for opinionated people. I like people who actually speak what they believe.

  • marmom07

     and they still got caught and the laws on the books will allow them to be prosecuted and with the law and the restrictions it’s way harder to get, so some are deterred and or delayed. That is a good thing. Just because it’s not a perfect world and there are plenty who will go around laws/rules and do the wrong thing does not mean that everything should be legal. Why have any laws at all with that reasoning?

  • MellyPer1692

    Kris’s Dad:

    “@nballen: I know I’m probably going to get a ton of feedback on this but it’s my right to bear arms and I don’t plan on losing it.”

    “@nballen: Guns are only as dangerous as the maniacs holding them. I do reserve my right to be able to protect my family & loved ones. #ConcealCarry”

  • KatMyers

    Interesting debate on the merits of gun control.  Here is an interesting article on today’s WashingtonPost.com:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

    Note the 9th stated “fact”.  Yes, the issue of mass violence is multi-faceted but the information available seems to suggest that controls do in fact control.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    I never said they would have less violence. I asserted gun bans don’t work. 

    In your first response, you said they don’t work if there is no defined border. Then you said they don’t work if you have a corrupt police force and government.

    Your responses ignore the fact:

    – If you banned the production and sale of guns in the United States there are already 270,000,000 within the nation’s borders.

    – Mexico may have “a very corrupt police force and government” but they are still effective at limiting legal gun ownership.

  • MellyPer1692

    Lol that Neil is chastised and called an idiot for calling someone a moron. Too funny.

  • Kitwana

    If the US wants to address gun violence, it may want to consider: fixing its crumbling education system, breaking the cycle of poverty which has haunted some families for generations, addressing double digit unemployment among certain minorities and young people, creating more quality jobs and real economic growth, stop glamorizing a “gun culture”, reconsidering the “permissive parenting” so popular since the late 80’s, strengthening the role of family, church and community in young people’s lives and instilling a value system in all young people at an early age, diverting the mentally ill into treatment centers rather than jails, better secure its borders and address unlawful immigration, imposing more serious consequences for gun crimes. I’m not holding my breath. These problems are too difficult to address. Easier to argue about gun laws.

  • Emmuzka

    To people who argument that psychos who intend to murder people will obtain guns anyway, so there is no use of trying to force control: You are deliberately handing out weapons for murderers. You are making it easier for them. 

    This is America.
    Psychotic person: I feel like killing a lot of people today.
    NRA: Sure! Have this semiautomatic weapon today! With this you can kill as much people as possible, and when we give it to you right away, you don’t have the time to get out of your psychosis, get help, or the police to get a hint of your actions beforehand! You, after all, have the right to carry a concealed weapon to protect yourself!
    Psychotic person: Thanks! *Goes to murder people* 

  • Kitwana

    MellyPer1692 Neil is an idiot for engaging in petty name calling on an issue where people can legitimately have different opinions. However, a person is not a moron just because he holds a view different from yours.

  • Emmuzka

    Also, with his tweet Danny Gokey says that the six-year-olds were killed for being ungodly.

    Yes. Hear me out on this;From a religious person’s mouth, saying that something awful happened because god wasn’t present, isn’t a valid statement, as god is supposedly always present and everything happens at his will.What they are actually saying is that something awful happened because religion wasn’t present (while god still was) -> God allowed it to happen anyway -> The awful thing was god’s punishment for the religion not being present. 

    So, Danny Gokey thinking that religion at schools would somehow have helped the situation is disgusting because his religious mind-frame makes the situation a punishment from being ungodly. 

  • MellyPer1692

    My comment is name calling someone an idiot while at the same time chastising them for name calling is funny.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    Kris’s Dad: Guns in homes are rarely used for protection. The majority of the time they are used for murders of family members motivated by rage, suicide and accidental shootings that often times involve young children. Please keep your gun locked up and the ammunition locked in a seperate location and remember that you will have grandkids one day. Many children are killed every year by their parent’s and grandparent’s guns that were “locked up” and “weren’t loaded”.

    Also, you might have a right to bear arms, but you shouldn’t have the right to own an assault weapon. Those types of guns should be issued to police and the military and should not be for sale to any US citizen.

  • blackberryharvest

    I admire Kris’s Dad for speaking up about the right to bear arms. Good for him! A lot of people talk about how Kris is “probably a liberal,” but based on what I have seen from his parents tweets on politics over the past few months, I think that might be far from the truth. Yes, I know you can be different from your parents, but most of the time the kids share their parents political beliefs.

  • irockhard

    James Durbin
    ?@DurbinRock

    What happened today is horrific &
    heartbreaking..I’m as shocked as anyone. My heart goes out to everyone
    affected #PrayForNewtown

     

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    I have nothing against Danny, but his comment was a moronic statement. How would prayer in schools have helped this situation? The gun culture and easy access to assault weapons mixed with a psychopath are some of the complicated issues surrounding these mass murders. This isn’t about religion in the schools. It was an idiotic statement made at an inappropriate time.

  • Emmuzka

    Kris’ dad’s response seems awfully lot like back pedaling after his previous, NRA-style tweets:

    “I know I’m probably going to get a ton of feedback on this but it’s my right to bear arms and I don’t plan on losinig it.”

    “Guns are only as dangerous as the maniacs holding them. I do reserve my right to be able to protect my family & loved ones. #ConcealCarry

    So at first it’s ME and MY RIGHTS and Don’t Blame Guns, Blame Individuals To Who the Society Gave Guns and #ConcealCarry and now it’s “Store your guns responsibly!” 

    I wonder from who he got a phone call to change his tone so drastically?

  • blackberryharvest

    It was also an idiotic statement from Adam’s brother for attacking Danny’s views.

  • blackberryharvest

    Scotty McCreery ?@ScottyMcCreery Thx Max Lucado for this Christmas Prayer written about today’s tragedy– http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/max-lucado/a-christmas-prayer_2_b_2302548.html?utm_hp_ref=tw … 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    It was harsh, but Neil was right. Murder in the name of religion has been the cause of untold deaths in every corner of the world. Religion will not solve this problem.  

  • Emmuzka

    Are you saying that Neil’s way of attack was idiotic, or that him attacking Danny Gokey was idiotic? 

    I think that Neil’s attack wasn’t idiotic on both counts. Personally I think that Danny’s tweet was idiotic (not to mention distasteful) and both Neil and I have a right to call him for it, even with personal name-calling attached. 

    Also, I hate it when someone’s religious view is called/excused as “only an opinion.” It’s not an opinion, it’s a religious view. If I think that earth is flat because god say so, or that homosexuality is an abomination because bible says so, or that school shootings happen because religion is removed from schools, it’s not an opinion, it’s a religious view. 

  • Pippygirl

    I work in the public schools with children ages 3 to 8, and I am sick at the thought of what those children in Connecticut suffered today. The only thing that consoles me is hearing the stories of how the staff did everything they could to help protect the kids. That shows us the wonderful side of humanity as clearly as the gunman shows us the terrible side.
    One thing I know for sure is that all the supposed security measures and lock down drills schools have are not going to stop someone from doing something like this. It may even give us a false sense of security.
    I have never fired a gun or even held one in my hand but I don’t know if stricter gun controls are the answer. However I’d be willing to give it a try. At least try banning all semiautomatic weapons. That doesn’t seem like too much of a hardship on people who do want to own guns. Just my opinion.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

     better secure its borders and address unlawful immigration

    Why? It’s not illegal immigrants who are committing these mass murders at schools, malls and theaters. It is U.S. citizens that are the perpetrators of these senseless crimes.

  • HKfan

    Neil Lambert probably wouldn’t have used those exact words to someone else, (although the sentiment would have been the same), there is a lot of history between Danny Gokey and the Lambert family.  

  • HKfan

    what a lovely Christian attitude he has…..
    I wish there was a dislike button on here…not for your post, but for the tweet:(

  • MellyPer1692

    Oh and with regards to bringing back religion to schools, lets do it. I pick Hinduism.

  • chillj

    I have not been inside a church in years, so I am not what you would call religious.  But religion is blamed for wars that are almost all fundamentally economic wars; they are about money.  Religious leaders historically ran nation states.  Nation states are fond of war for economic and power reasons. Religion has very often been used to pull the poor into wars where they otherwise have no interest, but it is rarely the push cause for a war. You really think there would be a problem with Muslims in Arab states without oil? Research the history; we reap what we sow.

    I have watched the extreme religious right and the extreme atheist left battle each other.  Both are equally rigid and intolerant.  If you discard religion, another way needs to be found to instill  values, which somehow are becoming so relative we can’t raise children who want for nothing except a soul.

  • chillj

    I have to wonder if Kris’s dad would feel the same way if instantly every gun in this country vanished and he did not have to fear someone else’s violence.  But, on the other hand, people managed to hunt and own guns in the 1950’s without mass murder.  What is different?

  • chillj

    I have to wonder if Kris’s dad would feel the same way if instantly every gun in this country vanished and he did not have to fear someone else’s violence.  But, on the other hand, people managed to hunt and own guns in the 1950’s without mass murder.  What is different?

  • chillj

    This problem is certainly multi-faceted and all of it needs to be looked at; I hope for the children’s sake this does not devolve into a nasty political debate, which itself will become part of the problem.

  • Tess

    As far as I can tell guns by themselves don’t kill people, religion by itself doesn’t start wars…all of this is about people killing people and has been going on since the beginning of time as far as I can tell.  

    We can come up with a million excuses and blame a million different “things” for the misery man inflicts upon his fellow man but I can remember these kind of tragedies occurring all of my lifetime…the only difference being that with modern communication we often hear about them as they occur (not after the fact) while the impact is more horrific and biting.

    Take all the guns away, make everyone “go to church”, revert to “strict” parenting when 40 waks was normal, throw all the “nut” cases into asylums…none of it will ever solve the issue as long as people are people.

      But it always seems to make other peeps feel better if they can “blame” something…that helps us all wrap are heads around the tragedy of it all.  Being reminded that people are imperfect only enforces the fact that “there, but for the grace of god (or the universe, etc.) go I” and we just don’t want to acknowledge the fact that “life” is so darn imperfect.

  • Jordana33

    It’s one thing to allow civilians to own guns, but it’s another thing to allow them to own semi-automatic weapons that allow them to discharge multiple rounds of ammunition in a short period of time. At the very least, they should ban those kinds of weapons, because those are the ones that enable mass killings, like the one in Connecticut or the Aurora movie theatre. Why would any civilian need this kind of gun?

    Personally, I think that it’s in poor taste for NRA supporters to be defending their gun agenda at a terrible time like this.  This whole “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” makes no sense when you’re dealing with a psychologically disturbed individual who snaps and kills 27 people in the space of minutes.  This kind of situation would not have happened without easy access to these weapons. Unless he was a seasoned criminal, I don’t see how he would have had access to these weapons if they had been illegal.

  • BonnieDee

    You said it yourself.  It’s not about the guns.  It’s about the psychologically disturbed, and the fact that we are so afraid to get sued that we won’t do the things necessary to help these people and prevent these tragedies. It’s the Virginia Tech shooter all over again.   I see all kinds of statistics being posted on here about the crime rates of other countries that ban guns, but I would have to say there are other mitigating factors.  How do these countries deal with mental health?  Are they as afraid as the U.S. is to deal with these issues or are they dealing more effectively with mental health issues than we are? Within our own country,  Chicago banned guns, this year I believe, and their violent crime rate went up.

  • http://twitter.com/desireechick Kesia Monteith

    “I wonder from who he got a phone call to change his tone so drastically?”

    Hmmmm…lol.

  • Tess

    I have no love of guns, they scare the bejuvahs out of me, but I understand that there are many very law abiding citizens that love them and collect them…just like there are many law abiding citizens who love, collect and drive automobiles, that in a careless moment or at the hands of an impaired driver are just as lethal as guns…we have all seen the results of cars being driven into crowds. 

    Again, what happened yesterday is a senseless tragedy…and no amount of what ifs can turn it around.  People who want to kill…Kill…whether it is flying a plane into a building, throwing a match, driving a car, or pulling the trigger of an automatic weapon it will happen.  I am sure, for some, that blaming a “gun” is easier than blaming the heavens for creating a monster…one is tangible proof of evil the other is not.

  • http://twitter.com/Miztig Miz

    THis is such a horrible tragedy. I was glued to the TV all day watching it unfold.

     I was furious at the various news outlets reporting things without concrete evidence or information provided by the law enforcement officials. This was such irresponsible journalism. Interviewing the children was particularly distasteful. 

    I’m anti-guns. My parents were too. Politically (though she hates politics), my mother is strongly conservative. The majority of my siblings and I are strongly  liberal. Some of their children are conservative. So, I don’t believe you can make any assumptions that someone like Kris shares his father’s beliefs on all issues.

    I’ve seen very little evidence of guns actually being used effectively in self defense by anyone other than law enforcement. There is one story of a recently widowed young mother who did use a gun to protect herself and her infant child. Other than that, I’m hard pressed to recall any news reports of such.

    On the contrary, I have personal experience with more than a few people I’ve known killing themselves and loved ones with a legal gun.

    THis time of year I always remember getting a call on Christmas eve from a friend regarding an associate of ours. The woman’s brother, wife, and children were all murdered in a home invasion robbery. They would have just gotten things, except in the process they found the man’s guns. The guns he had for ‘self-protection’.

    I’m anti-gun.

  • mjsbigblog

    Reminder:

    Please don’t turn this discussion into a thinly veiled fan war. Honestly, I really don’t care what the relatives of Idols think on this subject. I only posted Neil’s comment because he was responding to an Idol. He’s made many other statements, but I just don’t care.

    When a fan rushes to post negative tweets from the family of “the other guy” I don’t see good things coming out of it.  So, please keep the discussion focused on the topic.

  • bridgette12

    It’s better to have a brain to give an opinion than have someone to tell you what to think or feel, because they think they know better.

  • http://twitter.com/RonnieDRocks Ronnie D

     I can’t really respond to this because my comments are being deleted, even though I believe I followed the rules of posting on here. Anyways…believe whatever you want to believe.

  • BonnieDee

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/kendra-st-clair-oklahoma-girl-12-shoots-intruder/story?id=17524438#.UMyISxzP9Zc  This young lady defended herself with a gun after a man broke into her parents home.  She saved her own life.  I have a hard time believing it was just a burglary because the man went straight to the closet where she was hiding.  She shot him through the closet door and hit him in the shoulder.  He fled and was apprehended by police.  Also, if someone wants to commit murder, they are going to try to do it by any means, not just guns.  Whether it’s flying an airplane into a building or striking a match, using a knife, or setting a bomb.  We all know that.

  • jpfan2

    It is about the guns. It’s the lethal combination of mentally ill people with guns. So yes, a rational country would have more limits on guns. I truly believe people who believe there should be no limits on 2nd amendment rights are cult like. It’s a black or white world for them with any rational attempt at gun control seen as an assault. We have limits on other rights – children whose parents don’t believe in medicine are given life saving treatment for example.
    So why not guns?

  • BonnieDee

    Until we are willing to drop our political correctness and deal with the mental health issues, this problem won’t be fixed.  We can take guns away but it won’t stop the mentally disturbed if they want to try to kill.  The laws we have in place make it almost impossible to protect society from those who are mentally ill enough to do something like this.  We need to change that if we are going to really change anything, because the murderer will still be out there, the choice of weapon will just change.  

  • Chicagolaw

    But why make it easier? One man just killed 27 people. This is about guns. Something has to change. And I will NEVER understand why anyone needs semi-automatic weapons.

    Let’s just be rational about this

  • BonnieDee

    I don’t have a problem with banning assault rifles at all. But it won’t fix the problem until someone deals with the mental health issue.  Also, he had an assault rifle but he left it in the car according to reports. He used handguns.

  • jpfan2

    I think banning assault rifles needs to happen before the attempt to solve the problem of mental illness. If we do it the other way around, nothing will change.It’s a start anyway.
    There is a middle ground for this country on the issue.

  • HKfan

    I just don’t understand why so many Americans believe that changing the gun laws, and banning guns won’t make a difference. The numbers speak for themselves.
    last year handguns killed
    48 people in Japan
    8 in Great Britain
    34 in Switzerland
    52 in Canada
    21 in Sweden
    42 in W Germany
    10,728 in the US
    I don’t know how accurate these figures are but they must have come from data somewhere.

    A man in China went on the rampage and injured 23 people , no gun, a US man goes on the rampage with a gun and kills 27…

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    I have no love of guns, they scare the bejuvahs out of me, but I
    understand that there are many very law abiding citizens that love them
    and collect them…just like there are many law abiding citizens who
    love, collect and drive automobiles, that in a careless moment or at the
    hands of an impaired driver are just as lethal as guns…we have all
    seen the results of cars being driven into crowds.

    What are cars built to do? What is their purpose? What are guns built to do? What is their purpose?

    This is about gun safety. And, it’s about mental health. Two things that have been woefully ignored by this country and its policymakers. If 40% of guns can be purchased without a background check, that means 40% can be bought by just anyone, even people on a terrorist watch list, for instance! How bizarre is that? They can’t get on a plane but buy a gun? Any gun? No problem!

  • jpfan2

    The gun lobby is so strong that its trumped the war on terror. Yes, terrorists can’t board a plane but in many places they can buy all the guns they want. What a country!

  • BonnieDee

    The largest mass killings in this country came from a bomb (Oklahoma City) (168 killed) and planes (9/11) (2998 Killed).   We have to look at the PEOPLE doing these terrible things and not the method.  I find it amazing that so many people think taking guns away will end mass murder.  Simply amazing.  

  • Jordana33

    This young lady defended herself with a gun after a man broke into her parents home. 

    A close friend of mine survived a car crash because he wasn’t wearing a seat belt (otherwise he would have been crushed in the driver’s seat). It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t wear seatbelts. My point being, that for every story of civilians defending themselves with a gun, there are multiple stories of people accidentally shooting unarmed innocents. or kids finding parent’s weapons and accidentally (or willfully) shooting themselves or someone else. So I do believe that gun control laws need to be more stringent. 

    Also, if someone wants to commit murder, they are going to try to do it by any means, not just guns.  Whether it’s flying an airplane into a building or striking a match, using a knife, or setting a bomb.

    I think that guns make it a lot easier for people to commit murder, just as possessing weapons of mass destruction make it easier for one country to wipe out another country. Maybe if you’re someone with a lot of physical strength, or a black belt in martial arts, then gun restrictions wouldn’t be a deterrent, but for the average person with a vendetta, it would be.  For example, one-on-one murders committed with knives are often seen as more aggressive than crimes with guns, because it takes a lot more strength and skill  (and conviction) to kill someone with a knife than a gun.  

  • tripp_ncwy

    It may have something to do with to get there will require greater if not total government control of individual rights and freedoms which go against the principles the country was founded on. 

  • Chicagolaw

    The problem isn’t “political correctness,” the problem is how to deal with adults with mental health issues and suspected mental health issues. Once an individual is over the age of eighteen things get a whole lot more complicated.  Until a crime has been committed there is nothing that can be legally done—you can’t put limits on a person’s human rights because they suffer from a mental illness (and many, many people suffer from mental health issues in this country and never go on to commit violent acts) or because they might seem a little “strange.”

    But, we can do something about guns.

  • marmom07

     I completely agree with you Jordana33.

    More legal guns has not made America safer. It only means more people are dying from more gun accidents and more “in the heat of the moment” murders. Many more innocent people die from the above than “criminals” or bad people are stopped by legal gun use. It’s as simple as that. I don’t think that owning a gun because you MIGHT need to defend yourself should take precedence over the many many innocents who are actually dying every day. These mass murders get our attention but they are really the tip of the iceberg when it come to death via guns. Fewer legal guns equals fewer accidental deaths and fewer people grabbing a gun in the heat of the moment. It’s way, way harder to kill via a knife because that takes physical strength and it’s personal. Guns kill at a distance, kill quickly and are impersonal. Why else is it the weapon of choice?

    This should not be a zero sum game. Just because restricting or removing legal guns will not bring the violent gun, death toll to zero does not mean  we shouldn’t do it. It will lower the death toll. And some people will live. Seats belts do not save 100% but they save more people with them than with out them. Other societal issues should also be addressed. The problem is it’s complicated, with many different causes and it’s hard to agree on what solutions should be tried.

  • DragonFly

    “Plenty of people use religion to bully others which leads to violence.”

    Much is done positively all over the world by people with GOOD religious beliefs & behaviors that show kindness & caring as we know (no suggestion that people w/o faith aren’t contributing & hoping for goodness in mindkind also).  Having faith can’t make damaging winds, flooding, illness (physical or mental), tragic events of endless kinds we hear about & experience all go away.   What I will continue to hope & fight for is that people are always going to be free to share grief & pull for their neighbors to survive terrible events such as this with kind words of faith, hope & prayer if they so choose. 

  • marmom07

    There is no doubt in my mind that we do not yet have all the facts regarding what happened. It appears that this young person was not a criminal. He had what appears to be easy access to legal guns, someone else’s legal guns. Gun restrictions and waiting periods would not have changed this. If he had not had easy access to legal guns what would he have done? Perhaps he would have tried to buy or get guns through legal or other illegal means and that would have slowed him down and it would have increased the odds of his being found out before hand. Especially if he had to acquire them via illegal means. Not everyone who kills with a legal gun has a criminal on speed dial with the ability to get an illegal gun quickly. Not a guarantee but more likely he either would not have followed through or would have been  found out first. Have we stopped all terrorism here in the US? No, sooner or later someone will get through but we have stopped a lot of attempts and have save lives in the process. For me it would be the same if we ban guns.

  • Jordana33

    but I understand that there are many very law abiding citizens that love them and collect them…just like there are many law abiding citizens who love, collect and drive automobiles, that in a careless moment or at the hands of an impaired driver are just as lethal as guns.

    Cars are predominantly used for transportation, whereas guns are predominantly used for killing, so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. Also, the likelihood of killing someone while firing a gun, is a lot more than the likelihood of killing someone while driving a car.  

     People who want to kill…Kill…whether it is flying a plane into a building, throwing a match, driving a car, or pulling the trigger of an automatic weapon it will happen.

    But if you applied that logic to all criminal offenses then there would be no use for any laws.The bottom line is that laws do prevent most people from doing things they might have done otherwise. If there were no penalty for stealing, more people would steal. If there were no such thing as a DUI offense, more people would drive under the influence, resulting in more road fatalities. Of course some people ignore the laws and still drive under the influence, but the harsh penalties for DUIs probably serves as a deterrent to most people. I feel the same way about guns. A law against possessing semi-automatic weapons might not prevent a gang member from obtaining one illegally, it probably would have prevented the shooter’s mom from purchasing one herself.

    As many people mentioned, the problem goes much deeper than guns, including finding better means to identify and treat the mentally ill or examining the role of the media and television in these kinds of tragedies.  However, none of these issues have easy answers, so until we can figure out how to solve them, we need to have better gun control laws to prevent these dangerous weapons from getting into the wrong hands. 

  • KatMyers

    Greater government control vs. individual rights and freedoms – now there is an interesting debate.  What was true 200 years ago, may require some modification today.  After all, has not the world changed?

    Since 911, individual rights and freedoms have taken a back seat AFAIK to combating terrorism: Gitmo anyone?  The ability to detain on suspicion of terror activities? Or how about full body X-rays at airports?  The US government has implemented these terror fighting measures despite any argument against individual rights and freedoms, in the name of the greater good.

    On the other hand, greater regulation of the financial system is fought vigourously despite the fact that greater financial regulation has been shown to be of benefit and for the greater good.  For anyone that has question marks about this statement, take a look at how Canada has weathered the last 4 years compared to the rest of the world.  The UK has recently enticed away Canada’s top financial guru to be their Bank governor in the hopes Carney can solve some of their financial woes.  What has changed with the lessons of the last 4 years that will prevent a recurrence of the same?  Not that much I am aware of.

    I guess all I am saying that there are examples of increased government control that go against the grain of founding principles.  What goes into deciding which ones to uphold and which to foresake because as far as I can see, in both cases, there is a greater good that can prevail.

    A great mind once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result meaning that ultimately, “if you always do what you always did, you’ll always get what you always got.” (Einstein & Walton, respectively).

    Society at large is comprised of many individuals, with varying degrees of intellect, health, wealth and stabiility (financial and mental) who make life decisions with varying degrees of rationality and success.  At what point does the greater good take priority over individual rights and freedoms?  I don’t have an answer to that but what seems apparent is there is no formula for deciding beyond what can be sold on the political agenda.  Sad but seemingly true.

    Gun controls will not eradicate violence but there seems to be evidence that strongly suggests implementing control will lessen the impact.  I cited a washingtonpost.com article in an earlier post that points to a correlation between stricter gun controls and lower levels of violence.  It seems to be true in many other parts of the world.  Maybe what was true more than 200 years ago as a founding principle is no longer true and should be revisited.  Just a thought …

    *Runs and ducks for cover*

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    The killer used a Glock semiautomatic pistol, not a simple handgun.

    The high-power capabilities of Glock pistols, as well as the ease of concealing them, attracts those bent on a high body count, according to criminal-justice experts. They are legally sold in gun shops and online, some for less than $500.

    “Not only are semiautomatic pistols capable of rapid fire, they utilize high-capacity magazines and can be quickly reloaded,” said a 2011 report — titled “The Glock Pistol: A Favorite of Mass Shooters” — by the Washington-based Violence Policy Center.
    “The combination of these features makes semiautomatic pistols efficient killing machines,” said the report.

    Among the U.S. mass killings in which Glocks were involved:

    -Friday’s killings at the Connecticut elementary school

    -the July carnage at a midnight showing of a Batman movie in Aurora, Colorodo

    -the January 2011 attack in Tucson, Ariz. that critically wounded then-Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and 12 others, and killed six

    -the April 2007 mass shooting at Virginia Tech University in Blacksburg, Va., in which 32 students and others died, and 17 were wounded.

    -The November 1999 deaths of seven at a Xerox office building in Honolulu

    -the March 1998 rampage at Connecticut State Lottery headquarters, where Matthew Beck used a Glock 9 mm pistol to kill four and himself

  • chillj

    Well, you have pretty much cut to the chase, except that great numbers of people are entirely unaware of how our rights have already been abridged. National Defense Authorization Act pretty much finished off due process, but how many know?  Then there is the assassination of US citizens on foreign soil…. The country needs to talk.

  • chillj

    I am most curious as to why this child’s mother possessed two semi-automatics.

  • marmom07

     It’s a good question. Because she wanted to? Because she likes collecting guns? Because they made her feel safer? Because someone else in her life wanted them? I have no idea and I can’t think of any reasons that out weigh the tragic consequences.

    How many have shot an “intruder” only to find out it was a family member coming home? How many kids have died because they were curious? It just goes on and on.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    Values can be taught without the use of organized religion. Atheist and agnostics can be individuals with a value system that respects others, the government, the planet and themselves and that teach these values to their children. Religious people can have high moral values or they can be child molesters and mass murderers. The prisons are full of individuals who believe in God and who went to church every Sunday.

    religious =/= a good moral person
    non religious =/= a person without values

  • chillj

    It is probably sexist of me,  but I think of semi-automatics as mostly a guy thing – and certainly not a kindergarten teacher thing.  

  • chillj

    Atheists I know as a rule do blame every evil known to man on religion – particularly war.  That is historically incorrect.  It is not religion that is inherently evil, but  man (although I am not particularly fond of the black-white term “evil.” Man and what he creates is simply “imperfect.”)  I have no problem with the spectrum of belief and non belief, but there are too many absolutes, and very little tolerance, on either end of the spectrum.

  • Reflects On Life

    When is a gun no longer just a gun?  What if advancements in technology mean that in a generation or two from now, a gun can launch a nuclear missive?  So this same young man could blow up the entire town of Newtown instead of just 30 victims.  Then will we invoke the 2nd amendment?  Will we say mental health services will solve this problem?  Or will we realize that this sort of horsepower is only meant for war and national defense?

  • MellyPer1692

    You must know a small circle of atheists.

  • MellyPer1692
  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    Atheists I know as a rule do blame every evil known to man on religion

    The atheists and agnostics I know don’t. They are tolerant, peaceful individuals who have a high value system and teach these values to their children.

    but there are too many absolutes, and very little tolerance, on either end of the spectrum.

    Like statements about what atheists are like or what they believe? Do you personally know all the atheists and agnostics in the world?

  • http://twitter.com/DorkAngel DorkAngel-GBW

    Do you personally know all the religious people in the world?

    Eta, I’ll read you reply later as I’m actually leaving now to go to church. lol :)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    No, and that is why I stated that some of them have high moral values and some of them can be in prisions. The same thing goes for those who are not religious. Not all religious individuals are morally good people, the same is true for non-religious individuals.

  • MellyPer1692

    MJ:

    Please don’t turn this discussion into a thinly veiled fan war. Honestly, I really don’t care what the relatives of Idols think on this subject. I only posted Neil’s comment because he was responding to an Idol. He’s made many other statements on the subject, which I have not posted here.

    When a fan rushes to post negative tweets from the family of “the other guy” I don’t see good things coming out of it. So, please check you fan war impulses at the door and keep the discussion focused on the topic.”

    Sorry MJ. I saw that Adams dads tweets were posted and thought showing Kris’s dads tweets would be fine. If I knew other parents twitter names I would have posted them too, but since Kris’s dads tweets have been posted on the blog, his was the only other one I knew.

  • KatMyers

    She owned 2 semi automatics because she could.  No other reason needed.  It was her constitutional right.  That constitutional right allowed her son ready access to kill her, 6 other adults and 20 innocent children.

  • http://twitter.com/KariannHart Kariann Hart

    I have such sadness in my heart again today.  Parents will have unopened presents and Santa won’t be making deliveries to these little angels.  Thoughts and prayers out to all these families, and to the other children who experienced this tragedy.

  • journey1

    They still aren’t sure whether he had the semi-automatic weapon with him. The police chief said today that they found casings from the semi-automatic on site, so they still were not sure what weapons he had with him.  Sounds like lots of information we original heard was not true…like the fact that the mother of the perpetrator was a teacher at the school.  She wasn’t.  Still don’t know why anyone would want or need a semi-automatic weapon except to do harm to someone.  It is not a family protection kind of gun.

  • 1Can

     This just broke my heart. The terror must have been horrible. We need to make changes.
     
    All the victims of the Connecticut elementary school shooting were
    killed up close by multiple from a rifle, revealed the medical examiner.

    Dr. H. Wayne Carver called it a “very devastating set of injuries” at
    a news conference Saturday, where police released list of the victims.
    Eight were boys and 12 were girls. All the children were ages 6 or 7.

    Carver himself had examined seven bodies, all were first graders. All
    the people had been shot at least three to 11 times, he said. He said
    the examiners took photos of the faces of the children and then showed
    them to the parents, instead of bringing the parents to the bodies.

  • http://twitter.com/Miztig Miz

    No, he used the semi-automatic rifle according to the police chief and coroner and there were multiple bullet wounds in all the victims. The majority of what was reported yesterday was rumor and speculation presented as fact. The mother wasn’t even a teacher at the school and evidently had no connection to it.

  • songsungblue

    If I have a prayer, it’s that every single gun in the universe would melt into a pile of useless metal.  And any one that speaks about the ‘right to bear arms’ should be shot with their own weapon. By accident.  JMHO. 

  • sabbia

    And any one that speaks about the ‘right to bear arms’ should be shot with their own weapon. By accident

    Wow. I am flabbergasted by the utter paradox of this post. I don’t even know how to respond. You want people shot dead just as this 20yo kid did? From your post, I can’t tell a difference between your mindset and his???

  • iluvai

    What the heck??? Hinduism would be a fine religion to bring to schools. There should be a history of religions in all schools. Many of them have the same values and people might realize we are more alike than different.

  • iluvai

    That’s a little violent? …  I don’t want anyone to be shot. No one.

  • songsungblue

    I think you’re taking me a bit literally. It was actually a metaphor. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GIRFMNI2ELGND3HUAJV7KXZGUQ Bobo Arcjoe

    I better go out and buy me another gun and more ammo before they make it illegal to buy guns. 

  • blackberryharvest

    Uhh, I don’t even know what to say about this.

  • songsungblue

    Isn’t it a little harsh to say there’s no difference between making a comment and someone who massacred children?  I realize this is the internets, but – okay – I’ll say it again. I’m just upset with the attitude that guns are okay. IMO, they aren’t.  And I’ve known more people who have guns who have hurt themselves inadvertently – obviously, I don’t want anyone actually killed.  The idea that there is a right to bear arms that has evolved from a musket to assault rifles is – again, JMO – ridiculous and creating a lot of harm. That’s all. 

  • blackberryharvest

    I don’t think its wrong to own a gun when you want to defend your family or yourself. I have read some stories about kids who were home alone and shot intruders in their homes. Who knows what the intruders could have done to those kids if they couldn’t defend themselves. Here are the recent stories/examples of both kids and adults:

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10553140/

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/kendra-st-clair-oklahoma-girl-12-shoots-intruder/story?id=17524438

    http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Grand-Prairie-resident-shoots-home-invader-while-on-911-call-181079611.html

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/alabama-woman-shoots-home-intruder-to-protect-herself-and-her-ax-and-knife-wielding-daughters/

  • BonnieDee

    Wishing death on much of the country because of their beliefs is NOT a metaphor.  It’s sick.  

  • http://twitter.com/Miztig Miz

    When I was tutoring a few years ago, the religions of the world was part of the curriculum. It comes under the heading of World History. It is fascinating to learn just how much in common our religions have to each other. It is a shame that the good in religion is not what is processed and retained.

  • suenigma

    chilljsaid “Atheists I know as a rule do blame every evil known to man on religion – particularly war.”

    As someone else said, you must know a small circle of atheists. LOL. I myself am an atheist, as are many of my friends – to the best of my knowledge, none of us feel the way you describe.

    I have a great deal of respect and regard for organized religion. I send my children to church camp every summer, and as a family we try to attend church at least once a month. I would never, ever try to dissuade my children from believing in God. Religious belief is a blessing and a comfort, and the sense of community that belonging to a church provides is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Particularly at times like this.

  • chillj

    Most atheist friends of mine are lapsed Catholics who often tell me I can not be a Christian because of certain beliefs  I don’t find necessary:  i.e.. virgin birth, ascension, etc.  So, my circle of reference is admittedly narrow, and possibly these folks are unduly rigid – and intolerant.  Whenever these people discuss religion, they almost always neglect to mention the mainstream Protestantism of my youth,  which was often very progressive and absolutely always tolerant, with little dogmatism, emphasizing the New Testament and kindness over the bloody gore of the Old Testament.

    Many people are, however, being exposed to religion on religion sites like the one on the Huffington Post.  The atheists posting are advocates – just cruel, dogmatic and intrusive.  People don’t have faith for no reason; they have it to help deal with and explain pain and grief.  Telling them god is fantasy and a Santa Claus is a valid position, but not one to yell into a struggling crowd.  Mean is mean, no matter who does it and they will not allow anyone to converse without attack.

    I admire what you are doing with your children re: religion.  I raised my son with none, and at thirteen he expressed a need for it as part of a personal identity.  My son has no sense of the differences in different Christian theology, he is horribly woefully ignorant and it shows.  .  Not exposing my child to religion was the biggest mistake I made raising him; it is not critical in bringing up a good person, but it makes the shaky ground of life more solid.  

  • chillj

    Not to mention the idealism in the great religious art.  You can not study art without colliding with religion and I wonder about a world without it.

  • songsungblue

    BonnieDee, we are arguing a BLOG COMMENT. No one is waving a gun. If you don’t agree with my main point, you don’t agree.  But where did I say death?  I should have said shot in the big toe. ;)  The point is the same – guns = not okay.  Legal rights = need to be addressed again.  That is all.  

  • songsungblue

    I guess I do think it’s wrong.  I don’t think any guns belong in any homes, ever. But that’s my opinion. 

  • KatMyers

    As a non-American, with no real vested interest in the debate on guns and the 2nd amendment, I have read this thread with great interest.  I suspect that the views expressed here are fairly representative of the divide of attitudes and beliefs of Americans in general.  I find it interesting to see how neither logic nor numbers /statistics sway opinion.  If you believe in greater gun control, no amount of argument will sway you.  Conversely, if you believe in the second amendment, no amount of argument will sway you either.  I do wonder however, if a gun related death in the family would change the mindset of a pro-gun person.  Does the father who accidentally shot and killed his 7 year old son still believe guns should be readily available?  I hope none of us ever have a change of heart occur in this fashion.

    Facebook is a wonderful thing.  My timeline shows a picture memorial of the Sandy Hook victims.  How very heartbreaking to look at those innocent faces and know that they will never have the opportunities that those of us who are posting here today have had.  Ironically, immediately above is a poster with the following caption:

    “If more sane people were armed, the crazy people would get off fewer shots.  Support the 2nd amendment.”

    Colour me anti-gun, but I fail to see the logic in that poster, I really do.  Giving guns to teachers, administrators, everyone that would mean fewer deaths?  Or maybe it would just provide freer access to the crazies.  And of course, no teacher, principal or other school official has mental problems, right?  So it’s not like they would do something like Adam Lanza did, right?  So arming school officials would stop the extent of carnage seen in Sandy Hook, right?  In case you are confused, yes the last 3 sentences should be read with the appropriate degree of sarcasm.

    To anyone that argues criminals will always find a way to procure weaponry, I wholeheartedly agree.  To anyone that says, violence is not one-dimensional and poverty, education, lifestyle and/or mental illness among other important factors have a bearing, again I couldn’t agree more.  But I fail to see or understand how it can be argued that making it more difficult to procure weaponry will not reduce gun violence.  If a gun were not available without full background check, training, registry and any other safeguards in place with gun control, fewer people would have them.  Fewer people would reach for them in the heat of anger.  Fewer people would discharge them accidentally.  I could go on but I think you get the drift.  If Adam Lanza’s mother had no guns, I wonder if he might still have been able to get one.  From what I’ve heard, he did try to buy one but was uanble to do so.

    As for the 2nd amendment, well it states:

    “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”

    As a person who has not been born and raised in the American culture, I read that to say that arming oneself as part of the forces and to protect the security of the state, that right shall not be infringed.  I know that is not how the courts have interpreted it.  I see that the Chicago ban on guns has just been reversed which leads me to the following conclusions:

    1)  While the weapons industry continues to be a multi-billion dollar industry, it will take a gun-control leaning devil may care government and court ruling to change the interpretation of the 2nd amendment;

    2) Until the majority of US citizens can agree on the issue and any changes that may be needed to the 2nd amendment to bring it into the 21st century, things will stay as they are;

    3) Given the proliferation of weapons in the US, short of government confiscation, even gun control will not provide any reduction in gun violence in the short term, allowing the pro-gun lobby an argument that control does not alleviate gun violence (BTW, where is the NRA? – they have been very visible by their silence – not even a word of condolence since the carnage);

    4)  Until the stigma related to mental illness continues AND there is not ready access to mental health services (meaning everyone can access regardless of insurance or means), those with mental illness will continue to not receive the treatment they need and ultimately may snap, as Adam did.

    R.I.P. little angels.  And to the survivors, I am saddened beyond words at how your innocence has been destroyed far too early.  May you find comfort in the love of your family.

  • http://twitter.com/alienlifeform2 Diablo

    Since the discussion in this thread is more lively than in the other one, let me bring over one comment/quote:

    Christopher Auyeung 12/14/2012 07:59 PM 
    A powerful quote by Roger Ebert:

    ?’Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. “Wouldn’t you say,” she asked, “that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?” No, I said, I wouldn’t say that. “But what about ‘Basketball Diaries’?” she asked. “Doesn’t that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?” The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it’s unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. “Events like this,” I said, “if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn’t have messed with me. I’ll go out in a blaze of glory.”

    In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of “explaining” them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.’

    (Rammstein have even made a powerful song/video about it)

    Our culture glorifies violence, there’s no question about it. What movies can get away with without earning the R rating is astonishing. The 24/7 news coverage of violent events amplifies the phenomenon. People become slowly accustomed to the existence of extreme violence, then deadened to it. We’re not the only ones, what people see in movie theaters, video games and news is roughly the same in all developed countries. One thing that differentiates the US from  others, though, is the fact that weapons are as commonplace as fishing rods. Their very existence in stores and homes contributes to the culture of violence. We’re in the same homicide rate bracket as economically (and possibly socially)  unstable former Soviet republics like Ukraine and Belarus instead of “advanced” countries like UK and France (whose homicide rate is about 4 times lower) or Japan.

    If we start working on it now, introducing new laws, perhaps in 50 years schools won’t be places of danger. If we do nothing, the problem will escalate.

  • iani

    I think that guns make it a lot easier for people to commit murder, just
    as possessing weapons of mass destruction make it easier for one
    country to wipe out another country.

    We’re not the only ones, what people see in movie theaters, video games
    and news is roughly the same in all developed countries. One thing that
    differentiates the US from  others, though, is the fact that weapons are
    as commonplace as fishing rods. Their very existence in stores and
    homes contributes to the culture of violence.

    This could be an endless debate and pretty touchy somehow about weapons, gun-control, mental health, religion, what has been discussed here…From my personal experience and POV, I was born and raised with the government’s mentality that you should be prepared to protect yourself and your country in case of war, nothing more than that and I was involved since in HS in different kind of shooting drills, maybe more than 5x during of a 10 year period of time. Nothing to be prepared as a regular civilian like “be careful you might be surrounded by mentally challenged people, criminals,  protect yourself for some unfortunate situations”, no legal access to guns/weapons except your kitchen or backyard tools, it was all about what the government wanted. Maybe in US the self protection as individuals and accessibility to guns has been developed not from “yesterday”, but little by little culturally during a long process as a different kind of life development. I was lucky enough to be born and live in general “peace”, but from generation to generation it was transmitted(not really in the last 30 years or so) that kind of  life distress as “tomorrow it might be another war”. And talking about the easy access to guns and how easy they can be used I was always fascinated by the Johnny Cash lyrics in one of his song:

    When I was just a baby my mama told me. Son,
    Always be a good boy, don’t ever play with guns.
    But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die
    When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry..

  • HKfan

    I agree with this quote….everyone will remember this guys name, but no one will remember the victims.

    as to watching films being the cause of events like this, the rest of the world watches the same movies as the people in the US, and mass shootings like this are extemely rare, I would suspect for this simple reason that most other countries have strict gun laws.

  • iluvai

    I think people are more alike than not. :)

  • http://MJO judes

    Kat Myers I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. I’m not American either. I would love there to be a grassroots uprising confronting the congress to force them to do something about semi & automatic weapons [this right to fight was made way back in the 1700's when there were shotguns that you had to reload.] No suburban family needs weapons that fire 500 bullets in a row. These weapons are what were banned in Australia after our last massacre in the 1990’s -with a period of amnesty to return them afterwards.We haven’t had a mass tragedy since.
    My heart goes out to all the families who have lost a loved one -especially the little 6 & 7 years olds- just the age I teach .
     I also give kudos to the Dad who lost a daughter who gave a thought to the shooters family & said he was praying for them. How selfless when he is also mourning.