The Hits Sales Totals Are In: Susan Boyle Still at #1

The industry mag, Hits Daily Double just finished compiling their record sales for the week:

1. 1. Susan Boyle, I Dreamed a Dream – 509, 610 -24%
2. 2. Andrea Bocelli, My Christmas – 437, 535 +103%
8. 3. Taylor Swift, Fearless – 129, 825 +6%
— 4. R. Kelly, Untitled – 115, 923
13. 5. Casting Crowns, Peace on Earth – 79, 117 -10%
13. 6. Norah Jones, The Fall – 79, 117 -10%
7. 7. Lady Gaga, Fame – 78, 891 -45%
20. 8. Michael Buble, Crazy Love – 77, 634 +30%
9. 9. Carrie Underwood, Play On – 75, 679 -34%
17.10. Now That’s What I Call Music, Now 22 – 69, 929 -5%

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3. 21. Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment – 50, 648 -74%
— 33. David Archuleta, Christmas From the Heart – 35, 590
— 34. Allison Iraheta, Just Like You – 31, 808
31. 47. Kris Allen, Kris Allen – 22, 898 -35%

The official Nielsen Soundscan numbers will be in sometime tomorrow…

About mj santilli 33689 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

293 Comments

  1. Wow. SuBo is a real mystery. So many sales. And I have yet to find anyone I know who has purchased her CD. Guess I don’t run in the right circles.

  2. Yikes, Susan Boyle is a freakin’ monster!

    Very good #’s for Carrie and David A.

    I wish Adam & Allison had had both come in with stronger #’s, but they are what they are.

  3. Oh Susie, the new Queen of Music! 1.2 million in two weeks!

    Also:
    31 47 KRIS ALLEN 19/JIVE/ZLG 22,699 -35%

  4. Also:
    31 47 KRIS ALLEN 19/JIVE/ZLG 22,699 -35%

    Not bad. His single appears to be selling relatively well.

  5. I really think 50,648 is a great number for Adam. It shows coming down off idol fans sales he can sell 50 grand in a week. That is a tough thing to do. Just ask Bon Jovi.

    I am so proud of him. My wish is that he is consistant and keeps selling. It may take awhile but I know Adam will reach gold and then platinum.

  6. That’s awesome numbers for Adam. His album is selling and that’s what counts and yes even after the AMA controversy. It’s still better than the other idols. So that means he’s sold 240 to 250 K in 2 weeks :D Rhianna took a -70% drop which is more significant as she’s an established star.

  7. Anyone know which Idol had the sharpest drop off of a Black Friday debut? Is it Adam?

  8. CHART DATE: 12/07/2009
    LAST UPDATE: 12/08/2009 14:14:08
    NOW IN: FINAL

    33 DAVID ARCHULETA 19/JIVE/ZLG 35,590 ‘“

    confetti throwing, back flipping all over the place ‘“ he did it, he did it!!

  9. I know stories about where the CD is stocked in stores or how many in are in stcok don’t mean much, but it took me two tries to buy Adam Lambert’s CD this week. The first, a mall record store, didn’t order the CD because they are going out of business the first week in Jan. (????)The second time was last night (I know but I helped his third week sales :) ) I bought one of the two last CD the local Wal-Mart had in stock. Yes, I checked with the sales clerk. Anyway, it looks like my local sales people were not expecting folks to want his CD. It still isn’t being played on radio here.

  10. Well, in my opinion, gold is the new platinum. Unless you are Susan Boyle or Taylor Swift.

    or bocelli

  11. taking the liberty of re- posting a comment that sums up pretty much how i feel, and many david a fans, about the success of this christmas cd… thanks kitwana…

    I think that IF these numbers hold up, they are impressive. What makes them more impressive is that they were achieved without a Letterman, Conan, Leno etc. appearance; without a GMA, Today Show, Regis appearance; without a music video; without a Top 40 hit being played on the radio; without many spins generally; without an appearance on a big holiday special; without a front page ITUNE ad; without feature articles in People, EW, Rolling Stone etc.; and without 19M.

  12. I know stories about where the CD is stocked in stores or how many in are in stcok don’t mean much, but it took me two tries to buy Adam Lambert’s CD this week.

    *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

  13. Wow, these are not very good numbers at all. I guess Kris numbers are the best because it’s the least percentage of drop. He dropped from 33,000 to 23,000 which isn’t bad. I’m sorry but a 74% drop for Adam isn’t good. Adam dropped 199,000 to 50,000 whereas Kris did 80,000 to 33,000. I have a feeling next week it will be around 20 to 23,000 for Adam. Sorry I’m just going by statistics.

    As for Allison I believe she will sell around 12 to 14,000 next week. As well as Kris.

    I expect David Archuleta to sell even more next week because it is around Christmas time, he will probably sell around 50,000. And Carrie another 75 to 100,000 because of her special last night on Fox and consistency.

  14. How about the monster that is Taylor Swift! Holy cow! That girl is unbelievable!

  15. *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

    Deja vu.

  16. Wasn’t Rhianna’s drop about the same as Adam’s and John Mayer?? I’m happy. He is half way to gold in two weeks. Yay! Adam!

  17. I just heard Michael Buble on the radio and proceeded to turn it off. *yawn*

    I guess SuBo has some staying power. A LOT of staying power. Wow.

    I would be bummed out about Adam’s album drop, EXCEPT THAT

    He has sold almost 250,000 albums in TWO WEEKS!!!
    FYE is probably going to make VH-1’s Top 20 this week
    RCA/19 is filming a new mv for WWFM
    WWFM is picking up quite a few spins
    Adam still has B Walters’ special, The View, LKL, Conan, and Jay Leno, not to mention a possible *fingers crossed* NYE gig, a few more Jingle Balls to emcee or whatever, and the Stephen Spielberg ADL event (I think it’s tonight, and hope it’s taped–of course it will end up on YT, everything ends up on YT)

    And MW was #10 top song of the year on Time’s Top 10’s list.

    So, things are looking good for Adam!

  18. I love to see Archie doing well without 19M. Simon Fuller is a real creep about the Idols he doesn’t manage. Even if they’re under the 19R umbrella, they never get the same promo as the ones he manages. It’s so petty but they don’t even show their videos on the Idol tour.

    Danny’s doing his own thing in country but because he’s not a 19M artist, he’ll get the second hand promo while Kradison get the first class stuff. (I’m assuming Allison is with 19M as well although I don’t know for sure.)

  19. I think if all goes well David A could end up with around 200k give or take. Which aint too bad!

  20. *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

    Deja vu.

    LOL, MJ!!!

    Oh, and I forgot that Adam is going to be on the finale of SYTYCD. Team Jakob and Team Adam!!!

  21. I’m sorry but a 74% drop for Adam isn’t good. Adam dropped 199,000 to 50,000 whereas Kris did 80,000 to 33,000.

    Well, to be fair, Kris was going into Black Friday as opposed to Adam who was coming out of one. Black Friday tends to boost sales.

    But, your message got me thinking: What is Kris’s drop from first week to third week? (i.e. take Black Friday out of the equation).

    First week: 80K
    Third week: 23K
    Drop: 71%

    In an era where the first to second week drops are in the 60-70% range, that’s not bad. BTW second to third week drops are normally in the 40% range.

  22. i believe clay’s christmas cd debuted at #4 when it came out. (god i’m such a claymate!) sold 270,000 in it’s first week, just looked it up.

    surprised, in a bad way, at kris’s numbers. i thought he would average 25,000 a week. so this is lower than i would like but at least he still is in the top 50. here’s hoping the jingle bells concerts and the sytycd & letterman promo helps.

    surprised, in a good way, at allison’s numbers. i thought between 20 & 25,000 so this is really a good start for her.

  23. Wasn’t Rhianna’s drop about the same as Adam’s and John Mayer?? I’m happy. He is half way to gold in two weeks. Yay! Adam!

    Yes, I believe you’re right.
    So, what is Kris’ total now?

  24. I would be bummed out about Adam’s album drop, EXCEPT THAT he has sold almost 250,000 albums in TWO WEEKS!!!

    I think he’s going to be fine as well. I’m just greedy. LOL!

  25. Wow, these are not very good numbers at all. I guess Kris numbers are the best because it’s the least percentage of drop. He dropped from 33,000 to 23,000 which isn’t bad. I’m sorry but a 74% drop for Adam isn’t good. Adam dropped 199,000 to 50,000 whereas Kris did 80,000 to 33,000. I have a feeling next week it will be around 20 to 23,000 for Adam. Sorry I’m just going by statistics.

    What you have to look at is the total number of albums sold, not just the percentages. Adam sold a quarter of a milllion albums in two weeks. What artist wouldn’t want to achieve that? I’m sure I can think of at least one! Adam has so much TV promo coming up plus WWFM is climbing the charts. It’s all good. He’s doing great.

  26. Oh, and I forgot that Adam is going to be on the finale of SYTYCD. Team Jakob and Team Adam!!!

    yeah I’m excited about that!!! even though both my favorites(Nathan and Noelle) were eliminated last week.I’m excited to see kris tomorow too

  27. *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

    LOL I know MJ, like I said , I don’t think my story is universal. If anything I really don’t think anyone here thought Adam would be popular in this little small suburb. Even if he was selling millions elsewhere. I think he sold out here only because the stockers underestimated his sales potential in podunk.

  28. Wasn’t Rhianna’s drop about the same as Adam’s and John Mayer?? I’m happy. He is half way to gold in two weeks. Yay! Adam!

    John Mayer’s cd dropped at the same time as Kris’s album. Not good for Kris. Rhianna’s, Lady Gaga’s Monster & SuBo’s dropped the same time as Adam’s cd.

  29. I expect David Archuleta to sell even more next week because it is around Christmas time, he will probably sell around 50,000.

    from your lips to god’s ears, lolol… it’s doable, but i’m not even hazarding a prediction… i like watching it all unfold…

  30. No matter how anyone spins it, if these numbers hold, the truth is that Adam opened with better numbers than Archuleta did last year and in his second week the album is selling less than what Archie’s album sold in its second or third or fourth week…
    I think that alone shows that it is a big drop. If anyone had any doubts about radio presence…

    Simon Fuller is a real creep about the Idols he doesn’t manage.

    I’m pretty sure Archie thanks Fuller in his Xmas album. lol Something good the man must have done.

  31. Why are we surprised that David Archuleta’s Christmas album is selling relatively well at Christmas time?
    I am new to that numbers game, but I am under impression that 250,000 albums sold in the first two weeks (Adam Lambert) is not such a bad number.
    IMO.

  32. So, what is Kris’ total now?

    Has he passed Jordin’s first week sales yet? Isn’t Adam’s first two week sales ahead of Archies first two weeks last year-without any controversy?

  33. I have to laugh at the logic that he/she who sells the least is actually doing the best because it isn’t as much less as it was before or as others sold.

    I mean, I get the desire to and appeal of stabilizing sales, but at the end of the day more is more and less is less regardless of how you got there. And 500 is 500 whether you get there in 4 weeks or 4 years. At the end of the day kris and adam may very well have the same album sales, but I do not agree with the argument that kris -at this moment- is doing better than adam simply because his percentage decline was less (even tho adam already has double his sales)

  34. “”I have to laugh at the logic that he/she who sells the least is actually doing the best because it isn’t as much less as it was before or as others sold. “””

    Oh – you beat me to it – but I thought that was cute too – heh

  35. I have to laugh at the logic that he/she who sells the least is actually doing the best because it isn’t as much less as it was before or as others sold.

    I was laughing too but wasn’t brave enough to say it. Thanks for saying it, perfectly, for me! :)

  36. I love to see Archie doing well without 19M. Simon Fuller is a real creep about the Idols he doesn’t manage. Even if they’re under the 19R umbrella, they never get the same promo as the ones he manages. It’s so petty but they don’t even show their videos on the Idol tour.

    david is and always has been about the music… it may take a little longer, it may seem to many he’s under or off the radar at times, but he is and has slowly, steadily been building a solid foundation, honing his craft, and keeping fans and non fans alike very interested in him and his output. these sales numbers have increased steadily each week since the october release, and that is what anyone would want to see… just over the moon happy by the sales so far, and god willing, by season’s end, there will be more celebration in store….

  37. Adam opened with better numbers than Archuleta did last year and in his second week the album is selling less than what Archie’s album sold in its second or third or fourth week’ ¦
    I think that alone shows that it is a big drop. If anyone had any doubts about radio presence’ ¦

    That’s significant #s for Adam considering the economy, controversy and less radio play.

  38. surprised, in a bad way, at kris’s numbers.

    Kris will be fine. Album sales havent been great, but the good news is that LLWD has been doing remarkable as of late. Currently sitting at #31 on iTunes, it has consistently grown over the last few weeks. Going by reserved estimates, it should go Gold by the end of January. Kris is doing what all Idol alums need to be able to do, and thats pick up new fans.

  39. Has he passed Jordin’s first week sales yet?

    Yes.

    Isn’t Adam’s first two week sales ahead of Archies first two weeks last year-without any controversy?

    If the numbers hold? They are about the same. Adam will have about 249K in sales.

    Week 2: 11 David Archuleta ‘David Archuleta’  66,417 (-64%; lw 182,927) Total: 249,541 (2)

    Archie may have not had controversy fueled sales, but he did okay (and Black Friday would not occur until his third week).

  40. Why are we surprised that David Archuleta’s Christmas album is selling relatively well at Christmas time?

    not so much that it’s selling impressively because it’s a xmas cd at xmas time, but that it’s been selling well since it’s october release date, when many people here and elsewhere were questioning the efficacy of releasing in october, has shown weekly consistency in increases, and is outpacing some pretty big guns on itunes, regular releases and xmas cd’s, w/1000x more promo… if he were getting bocelli’s or groban type promo for this cd, my word.

  41. “Isn’t Adam’s first two week sales ahead of Archies first two weeks last year-without any controversy?”

    I read somewhere that album sales are down about 15% from last year. Is this erroneous information.

  42. Archie may have not had controversy fueled sales, but he did okay

    Hate to beat a dead horse, but I am still of the opinion that the AMAs hurt sales. His fans would buy anyway. But those Idol fans, who loved Mad World, and watched the AMAs, probably have not bought FYE yet.

  43. These are bad numbers for all S08 Idols (really bad for Allison).

    Adam’s drop may be higher than Kris’ percent-wise, but he still sold almost 250k in two weeks. Kris couldn’t sell 150k in three weeks.

    I think the American Idol brand is in trouble.

  44. I mean, I get the desire to and appeal of stabilizing sales, but at the end of the day more is more and less is less regardless of how you got there. And 500 is 500 whether you get there in 4 weeks or 4 years. At the end of the day kris and adam may very well have the same album sales, but I do not agree with the argument that kris -at this moment- is doing better than adam simply because his percentage decline was less (even tho adam already has double his sales)

    I do not see anybody arguing that Kris is doing better than Adam (for album sales) . I see some people being pleased that the drops are not as big as they could be. His numbers are troubling, but all the news isn’t bad.

    Labels like to see sustainable sales and/or rising sales. That proves that you can get new fans. Clay and Taylor Hicks show us that first week sales built on fan bases do not necessarily repeat on subsequent albums. One must be able to get cultivate new fans. That is why steep drops are troubling.

    Adam is still outselling Kris and is the album champ of S8. He needs to pull out of the nosedive, though. I’m sure he will. Adam has good numbers, but all the news isn’t good.

  45. Why are we surprised that David Archuleta’s Christmas album is selling relatively well at Christmas time?

    Just cause it’s a Christmas Album doesn’t guarantee it is gonna sell.

    David’s Christmas Album is selling because it is good quality Christmas music. Something you can buy and listen to for many years to come. :)

  46. Actually, Kirsten, this is the post that person was referring to. So, yes, there was a spin that Kris is doing better.

    Wow, these are not very good numbers at all. I guess Kris numbers are the best because it’s the least percentage of drop. He dropped from 33,000 to 23,000 which isn’t bad.

  47. I think the American Idol brand is in trouble.

    AI will always point to Kelly, Jenifer, Carrie, Daughtry, etc.

  48. Actually, Kirsten, this is the post that person was referring to. So, yes, there was a spin that Kris is doing better.

    True. Clearly, if you look at the actual numbers, it is Carrie that has the best numbers of the Idols. She also has the lowest drop.

  49. If the HDD estimate is right, then Adam sales drop is exactly what I expected. American Idol average debut album drop -68% normalized for the late Thanksgiving sales shift = -75%. HDD estimate is -74%. So looks pretty typical. [At least typical enough that I predicted the drop accurately last week. And we all know I was 50K low on my first week Adam forecast of 150K — so I am glad to be right onthis one.

    I am just hoping that HDD is 449 units low and Adam hits 250K this week. We’ll see when the final numbers come in tomorrow.

    Kris’ HDD estimated drop is higher than Cook had last year [same release calendar] — I was expected it to be similar because Week 2 drops were almost identical. Week 1 – KA -59%, DC -60% Week 2 KA -35% DC -22%.

    And I was hoping that the HDD forecast for Allison would be wrong. Looks like they nailed this one. Must not be a happy week at Jive.

    Tony
    12/08/2009 at 5:25 pm
    Anyone know which Idol had the sharpest drop off of a Black Friday debut? Is it Adam?

    It is a small universe — I could only find two similar cases. And both were when Thanksgiving was 1 week earlier in the Christmas season. The sales shift for 5 week Christmas seasons [early Thanksgiving] is usually different. Setting that not insignificant difference aside, yes Adam is #1 — so to speak.

    The only one of the Top 15 Selling American Idol alums to have an album drop on Thanksgiving Week is Daughtry 11/21/06, Thanksgiving was 11/23/06.

    the only Idol winner to have an album 1st week on Thanksgiving week was Jordin — 11/20/07 release, Thanksgiving was 11/22/07.

    Daughtry -51% with an impressive 155,501
    Jordin -44% with a really strong second week of 52,000, that really was the beginning a really steady sales that ended up at 1.5 million.

    For all albums, Idol or not [except SuBo], the real story is told in how they sale over the first couple of months. Jordin only sold 119,000 week one and the album have sold over 1.5 million. Not Carrie level, but not shabby either.

    Look at the comments about Cook’s album sales after the week 2 and 3 sales drops — many people wrote off the album and said it was just that he had a ton of Idol fans. Then the album went up in Week 4-6 and went Gold and Platinum faster than most people expected.

  50. Adam’s sales are good and I am very encouraged by the fact that Adam does have high profile TV appearances each week for the next several weeks.

    I would bet he has good sales all the way through…

    At each appearance he will have millions watching and get an opportunity to make a third/first impression.
    Last year’s ratings for Barbara Walters Special was better than 10 million and The View easily gets 4 million on average. SYTYCD gets 12 million plus and the season finale should get their highest ratings. Leno gets decent ratings and I think Adam and the band will end up somewhere great for New Year’s Eve and the People’s choice Jan 6th.

    That’s at least 1 high profile gig a week FOR 5 weeks.

    High profile = people interested (buying) in the best way (through his music) and keep selling.

  51. “”AI will always point to Kelly, Jenifer, Carrie, Daughtry, etc.””

    But Daughtry and Jennifer do not count really, not winners – so in the future if they point to past Idols who did good, Adam will be added to the Jennifer and Daughtry, at least I believe this will happen but I dont count Kris out, like my Jason I think he will be fine in the long run. Slow and steady wins the race – dont they!?? I think they will last, not that I dont think Adam will but I bet they will stick around for a good long time, maybe not blowing albums out the door but doing respectible

  52. I think Jive is fine since if I recall correctly, Kris is actually doing comparably to most of their label artists. Someone correct me if I’m wrong – this is just what I remember from a previous thread.

  53. Isn’t Adam’s first two week sales ahead of Archies first two weeks last year-without any controversy?

    I think they are about on par. Archie might have sold very, very slightly more.

  54. ggdoorsfan, I was confused about David A album release date since HDD chart is not showing last week’s position. Looks like it was just released.
    Little do I know..:(

  55. I think they are about on par. Archie might have sold very, very slightly more.

    i think it’s something like this… the numbers gurus have my blessing to correct me… i’m not into numbers and comparisons, but here they are to the best of my memory….

    lambert 1st week – 198k
    lambert 2nd week – 50k

    archuleta 1st week – 183k
    archuleta 2nd week – 66k

  56. no problem oksana2000 – it’s hard keeping up w/ all the data and dates and info here, lolol… i’ve been actively posting online a little over a year, and it still confuses me….

  57. Adam had a huge dropoff, but that was expected. Let’s see what his 3rd week sales are, after these next few big tv appearances.

    Kris drop is bigger than I had hoped — I was keepig fingers crossed for around 25%. His album has moved up a little bit on iTunes over the past few days (it dropped briefly but moved up again) so maybe he can stabilize a little.

    Allison’s numbers are not good for a 1st week total, especially since people were saying she had less competition in terms of who were dropping albums on that same day.

    Carrie continues to shine and David A did really well.

  58. mj
    12/08/2009 at 5:32 pm

    I know stories about where the CD is stocked in stores or how many in are in stcok don’t mean much, but it took me two tries to buy Adam Lambert’s CD this week.

    *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

    Looks like to me these “type of stories” are popping up from a multitude of opinions on the topic. It doesn’t seem to me to be indicative of those of one certain viewpoint. The extremes of the spectrum seem to be the most vocal. Annoying but not harmful.

  59. I do not see anybody arguing that Kris is doing better than Adam (for album sales) . I see some people being pleased that the drops are not as big as they could be. His numbers are troubling, but all the news isn’t bad.

    Labels like to see sustainable sales and/or rising sales. That proves that you can get new fans. Clay and Taylor Hicks show us that first week sales built on fan bases do not necessarily repeat on subsequent albums. One must be able to get cultivate new fans. That is why steep drops are troubling.

    Adam is still outselling Kris and is the album champ of S8. He needs to pull out of the nosedive, though. I’m sure he will. Adam has good numbers, but all the news isn’t good.

    Kirsten – Clay’s declining sales for CD #3 and #4 were due to no promotion rather than lack of interest. His 1st CD went platinum in 4 weeks. The second (MCWL) went platinum in 6 weeks. Both were promoted. Declining sales for CD #3 and #4 is hardly a sign of unsustainable sales, but rather what happens when a label deserts you!

  60. Several past Idol contestants have put out Christmas albums, but I think Clay’s is the only one that has been really successful. I have it and it’s one of my favorite Christmas ones. I think Kimberly Locke and Elliott Yamin also did seasonal albums and am not sure how they sold. I always wondered about Elliotts as he is Jewish, but he didn’t include any religious songs. I never buy a Christmas CD unless it does have religious music as to me that the real spirit of the season. Too bad Adam is Jewish as his voice would do wonders to some of the classics IMO. I wish Archie luck as I feel with the record sales climate what it is he may not do as well as he could have.

  61. Jordin -44% with a really strong second week of 52,000, that really was the beginning a really steady sales that ended up at 1.5 million.

    It’s been pointed out before – the 1.5 million figure is wrong if you are discussing US sales.

  62. “Must not be a happy week at Jive.”

    I don’t know about that.

    Q3, don’t you think Jive would have anticipated Allison’s numbers? This statement implies that these totals for Allison would somehow be a shock to them. I sincerely doubt they were shocked.

    Kris’ drop doesn’t seem off-the-charts huge to me relative to the artists who dropped on the same date as Kris. I think they are probably comparing his drop to the other artists on their label, not only to previous Idols on other labels. Looking at iTunes, which of course is not a scientific method of predicting album sales, Kris’ CD has stabilized and been drifting upward over the past few days. Would they be unhappy about that?

    And why wouldn’t they be happy with LLWD sales? I would think they’d be pleased as punch with the single sales right about now.

  63. Adam is still outselling Kris and is the album champ of S8. He needs to pull out of the nosedive, though. I’m sure he will. Adam has good numbers, but all the news isn’t good.

    Kirsten with all due respect how can sales after two weeks be considered a nosedive or pattern of a nosedive. I believe it was you who last week predicted that Adam most likely be around 70-75% drop. (Good educated guess there by the way) You posted I believe that would be about right for all things considered and if he did drop about that it was not something to be so worried about. I believe you said that the 3 and 4th week would be the determining factor for him. I was glad you informed us about this ahead time. So I am a little confused that now you seem to be changing your initial perspective. Unless I am not reading you correctly which would not be the first time and if so I apologies ahead of time

    Kirsten one question not related. When a artist is say in pop like Adam do all his singles on his album only get pushed to pop/top 40/HAC stations or could he have a song Let’s say Sure Fire Winners and release that single as a Rock genre song. I hope my question is clear. SO can an artist release singles on their album in different genres or do they have to stay with the genre the album as a whole is linked.

  64. Kirsten ‘“ Clay’s declining sales for CD #3 and #4 were due to no promotion rather than lack of interest.

    I suppose that’s a matter of opinion though. I always thought Clay’s declining sales were in direct proportion to the craptasticness of the music on them.

  65. All of my white elephant and fringe friend/relative gifts have been Archie Christmas, David Cook and FYE cds. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  66. halfway gold for Adam in 2 weeks seems great for me! especially coming off the AMA performance. Adam had 22 radio adds today and yesterday so hopefully after the freeze radio will keep going up and translate into sales!

  67. Looks like to me these ‘type of stories’  are popping up from a multitude of opinions on the topic. It doesn’t seem to me to be indicative of those of one certain viewpoint. The extremes of the spectrum seem to be the most vocal. Annoying but not harmful.

    I am certain of one thing — my Super Walmart [Tupelo MS] is currently out of Adam’s album. I do not have the option of going to Target because we don’t have one — and I did not check the other nearby Walmarts! But at least in this mid-South bible belt town Walmart is sold out of FYE. Not surprising — we are also in the heart of American Idol country.

    But there were plenty of FYE’s at our Barnes and Nobel, and the Tupelo Hot Topic is selling FYE. So the reports may be true, but I think the cases of selling out are isolated. And I just have to believe that no one in the US really can’t find a copy of FYE to buy. Because if you can buy it in Tupelo, it must be everywhere!

  68. I know stories about where the CD is stocked in stores or how many in are in stcok don’t mean much, but it took me two tries to buy Adam Lambert’s CD this week.

    *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

    Do you mean that around this time of the year, some people start making things up, or it’s typical that stores run out of cds?

  69. Jordin only sold 119,000 week one and the album have sold over 1.5 million.

    I’m assuming you’re pulling this from Wikipedia, but it’s incorrect. Jordin’s post-Idol debut went platinum, but it has not sold 1.5 million. Last published numbers from Soundscan were 1,020,000 (from Brian at Idol Chatter earlier this year). She ended up doing great after a relatively slow start, but she’s nowhere near 1.5 mil, even with all her albums and EPs combined.

    ETA: Thanks Hazehel. Jinx.

  70. Jordin only sold 119,000 week one and the album have sold over 1.5 million. Not Carrie level, but not shabby either.

    Jordin is only slightly above 1M in sales, no where near 1.5M. She’s been selling less than 2K a week since before the album went Platinum.

    Look at the comments about Cook’s album sales after the week 2 and 3 sales drops ‘” many people wrote off the album and said it was just that he had a ton of Idol fans. Then the album went up in Week 4-6 and went Gold and Platinum faster than most people expected.

    Um, Cook stayed in the Top 10 his 2nd and 3rd week. If anything, it was the opposite situation to Adam’s – Some people were trying to explain (in some cases diminish) the album’s continued success by saying it’s still the fanbase buying, we need to wait until the post holiday duldrums to see how it “really” does etc. Not the same scenario as either Adam or Kris this year.

  71. I think she means that around this time of year, people start suggesting that they can’t find the cd in any store and if the label had just shipped more, the artist would be selling more. All fanbases make these claims when numbers are perceived to be less than expected. MJ can correct me if that’s not what she meant.

  72. never fear jojosie – being jewish was no impediment to bob dylan releasing a christmas cd this year…

  73. But Daughtry and Jennifer do not count really, not winners ‘“ so in the future if they point to past Idols who did good, Adam will be added to the Jennifer and Daughtry, at least I believe this will happen but I dont count Kris out, like my Jason I think he will be fine in the long run. Slow and steady wins the race ‘“ dont they!?? I think they will last, not that I dont think Adam will but I bet they will stick around for a good long time, maybe not blowing albums out the door but doing respectible

    sumidol – Clay is the one who has sold 6 million albums and is only one of 3 Idols to have more than one platinum album, and only one of 2 to hold the #1 position on the BB 200 2 weeks in a row.

    He is the 4th best selling Idol of all time and Jennifer Hudson’s success is not in music sales with her 700,000 total. An Oscar does not equal success in the music business!

  74. adam could have easily sold more if he chose music again and broken open as his singles. until he starts choosing better songs that showcase his voice, his sales would continue to decline. the FYE performance was so bad, that he really ought to showcase his voice once again.

  75. Rhianna took a -70% drop which is more significant as she’s an established star.

    Not really, IMO. For a second week drop coming off Black Friday, that’s not too bad. Neither is Adam’s… that’s about what you would expect.

    I guess Kris numbers are the best because it’s the least percentage of drop. He dropped from 33,000 to 23,000 which isn’t bad.

    Third week drops are supposed to be smaller than second week drops, so it doesn’t mean anything. I would say he’s about were you would expect fro a 3rd week drop that follows Black Friday, a week that is already going to have some pretty big drops.

    Neither one of them is doing horrible in terms of percentages IMO. Kris’ overall sales are smaller and that is not great. But he is not showing signs of a drop in interest level or that he’s hit a wall in terms of potential customers. So there’s still hope for the future. It is too soon to tell that kind of thing with Adam, IMO… the first couple of weeks are normally pretty fan driven. But so far things look fine. His story will start to be told next week and beyond.

    Allison’s numbers are low, but I can’t imagine Jive expected anything different under the circumstances.

    Carrie and Archie are kicking ass. Yes Archie’s album is doing well during what should be his peak sales weeks, but he is running with the big dogs and holding his own. This is a good sign for the future for him, since its probably indicative of a good sized fanbase and interest level overall. And Carrie goes with out saying. She typically racks up a huge chunk of her sales at this time of year, so moving product right now is vital. And she is killing it, IMHO.

  76. An Oscar does not equal success in the music business!

    i think it trumps success in the music business, as it shows that she has transcended the idol bubble, blown through it like gangbusters, and is not solely dependent on a music career or record sales to have acclaim or garner recognition. jennifer hudson is in another class altogether, imho.

  77. AI will always point to Kelly, Jenifer, Carrie, Daughtry, etc.

    Those are past Idols.

    My point is that AI doesn’t seem to able to produce high selling artists anymore. Kris debuted #11. Adam debuted #3, but droped to #21 on his second week. And Allison debuted #34.

  78. I guess Kris numbers are the best because it’s the least percentage of drop.

    Not really considering the drop to the third week is almost always smaller than the one for the second; both percentages are pretty standard actually.

  79. Several past Idol contestants have put out Christmas albums, but I think Clay’s is the only one that has been really successful. I have it and it’s one of my favorite Christmas ones. I think Kimberly Locke and Elliott Yamin also did seasonal albums and am not sure how they sold. I always wondered about Elliotts as he is Jewish, but he didn’t include any religious songs. I never buy a Christmas CD unless it does have religious music as to me that the real spirit of the season. Too bad Adam is Jewish as his voice would do wonders to some of the classics IMO. I wish Archie luck as I feel with the record sales climate what it is he may not do as well as he could have.

    JOJOSIE

    Clay sold 1.4 million
    David A has sold 124,000
    Elliott has sold 81,000 of his first and 37,000 of his second.
    Kim Locke sold 2,200 of hers.

  80. Adam sold a quarter of a milllion albums in two weeks.

    IMO he should have sold a heck of a lot more with all the promo he got. It’s definitely not selling in my city and was never out with the new releases – just a card slot with 9 CD’s yesterday.

  81. Q3
    12/08/2009 at 6:35 pm
    Looks like to me these ‘type of stories’  are popping up from a multitude of opinions on the topic. It doesn’t seem to me to be indicative of those of one certain viewpoint. The extremes of the spectrum seem to be the most vocal. Annoying but not harmful.

    I am certain of one thing ‘” my Super Walmart [Tupelo MS] is currently out of Adam’s album. I do not have the option of going to Target because we don’t have one ‘” and I did not check the other nearby Walmarts! But at least in this mid-South bible belt town Walmart is sold out of FYE. Not surprising ‘” we are also in the heart of American Idol country.

    But there were plenty of FYE’s at our Barnes and Nobel, and the Tupelo Hot Topic is selling FYE. So the reports may be true, but I think the cases of selling out are isolated. And I just have to believe that no one in the US really can’t find a copy of FYE to buy. Because if you can buy it in Tupelo, it must be everywhere!

    Levine
    12/08/2009 at 6:35 pm
    I know stories about where the CD is stocked in stores or how many in are in stcok don’t mean much, but it took me two tries to buy Adam Lambert’s CD this week.

    *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

    Do you mean that some people making things up, or around this time of the year, it’s typical that stores run out of cds?

    Okay, again to clarify. I explained that my first place was out of FYE because they never ordered it. The second place – one of three Wal-Marts in this county – was down to two CD’s.

    I do not think that they sold out because a huge number of folks swarmed the store to purchase it. I think they sold out – well they still had one after me – because Adam is meeting some resitance here in the community AT LARGE and folks underestimated the number of people who would be interested in his CD here. The Wal-Mart – like the record store – did not stock enough CD’s in the first place. This is not some global conspiracy against Adam, this is in reaction to local norms.

    As I explained a few weeks ago, the production and music directors at several of the local radio stations were relunctant to add Adam not because they didn’t like him, but because they thought the residents of this small suburb would react negatively to their station if they did add him after the AMA’s (I asked the folks at the radio stations). One of those stations hosted the Idol Tour which rolled through here a few days ago. They play Kris, Cook and Archie and most of the other Idols ALL the time. But not Adam.

    Hopefully the folks at the store and at the radio stations will realize their is local interest in the glittery alien afterall.

  82. Kirsten with all due respect how can sales after two weeks be considered a nosedive or pattern of a nosedive. I believe it was you who last week predicted that Adam most likely be around 70-75% drop. (Good educated guess there by the way)

    It’s sometimes hard to get tone across in posts. I did predict a 70-75% drop, so the drop is not unexpected, but it is, nevertheless, steep. So, all I’m trying to say is that the album needs to have a less steep drop next week which it should. It can’t continue having 75% drops which is too steep for subsequent drops. It needs to pull out of the dive as all albums should. Most albums nosedive after their first week.

    I said that all the news isn’t good. I didn’t say it was bad. A drop of 74% after Black Friday is okay. A less steep drop would be good news because it would mean that the album has stronger legs than the average. A steeper drop than 75% would have been bad news. A drop like SuBo had would have been fantastic news.

    Kris’s numbers aren’t great, but the percentage drop is better than average because the average drop is 40% between second and third week. One would expect a larger drop coming out of a Black Friday week. I was just trying to explain why some might be impressed with that.

    For an average album, Adam should see less than a 40% drop next week (sales will be moving up for the next few weeks as we go into Christmas). Say, around 35-38%. For an average album, Kris should see a drop less than 25%. Say, around 22%. If they have lower drops than that, it’s good news. If they have drops like that, it’s okay news. If they have steeper drops than that, it’s verging on bad news. Especially since both have promo on TV this week.

  83. Carrie and Archie are kicking ass. Yes Archie’s album is doing well during what should be his peak sales weeks, but he is running with the big dogs and holding his own. This is a good sign for the future for him, since its probably indicative of a good sized fanbase and interest level overall.

    i like the way you think ms. tinawina… and i hope this does bode well for good things in david future… trying to keep my expectations in check, because the industry is so very volatile, but i have hope that he is on his way to a steady, successful career doing what he loves… singing his big/little heart out, no more, no less…

  84. mj
    12/08/2009 at 5:32 pm
    I know stories about where the CD is stocked in stores or how many in are in stcok don’t mean much, but it took me two tries to buy Adam Lambert’s CD this week.
    *looks at watch* and it’s just about time for these types of stories to start popping up.

    Lol. Next up is the “my idol’s cd is priced higher than your idol’s cd” excuse if I recall correctly from last year?

    Look at the comments about Cook’s album sales after the week 2 and 3 sales drops

    Um, no. Dave was one of the top album sellers for 11 straight weeks. His record fell out of the top 20 in week 12.

    Congrats to Archie, very nice numbers on the Christmas record dude!

  85. Lol. Next up is the ‘my idol’s cd is priced higher than your idol’s cd’  excuse if I recall correctly from last year?

    No excuses made. see my post above.

  86. Minus 75% for Adam in his second week? I guess it’s more or less normal.
    Allison’s number are low as I expected.

    Lol at Susan Boyle going platinum in two weeks, it’s really incredible.

  87. Wow I can’t believe Adam is halfway to gold in 2 weeks! I also have never heard of Clay until finding this blog. I looked him up and he has a nice voice. I wonder how many CDs the older Idols would sell in todays market.

  88. ptslittlecomment – I don’t think anyone’s picking on you or saying YOU meant it that way. We’re just saying that some people do try and claim that every year. You just happened to be the first to make a comment like that, even if you didn’t mean it that way :-), peace.

  89. I’m quite happy with Adam’s numbers as many have said slow and steady wins the race. If he can continue 50K a week (hopefully) I think that would be very good.

  90. and i hope this does bode well for good things in david future’ ¦ trying to keep my expectations in check, because the industry is so very volatile, but i have hope that he is on his way to a steady, successful career doing what he loves’ ¦

    It all depends on the music of course, but I think selling christmas albums well is typically a fanbase/name recognition kinda thing, so if he can hold his own, I don’t see how its not good!

    Um, no. Dave was one of the top album sellers for 11 straight weeks. His record fell out of the top 20 in week 12.

    True, but I think her point was his sales were attacked anyway. Which they were.

  91. Kirsten one question not related. When a artist is say in pop like Adam do all his singles on his album only get pushed to pop/top 40/HAC stations or could he have a song Let’s say Sure Fire Winners and release that single as a Rock genre song.

    Definitions like this are pretty arbitrary these days. John Mayer is listed as rock, but all his songs are being pushed to AAA/HAC. They can certainly push a song to Rock if that’s where they think it will get spins. Carrie’s label is pushing her country song on HAC.

  92. Honestly, I don’t see how anyone can look at these numbers and be happy about any of the AI8 people. Having said that, however, it’s far too early to go heavy on the doom& gloom about any of them. I want to see where they are at the end of December — if they can keep from dropping too much the next few weeks, all 3 of them could do just fine.

  93. No excuses made. see my post above.

    Well, you may not have made them, but I assure you, they were made.

  94. ptslittlecomment ‘“ I don’t think anyone’s picking on you or saying YOU meant it that way. We’re just saying that some people do try and claim that every year. You just happened to be the first to make a comment like that, even if you didn’t mean it that way , peace.

    Thanks jersey. I just didn’t want to be pegged as a conspiracy theorist -well at least not about this ;) . I will go take a deep breath now.

  95. Carrie’s label is pushing her country song on HAC.

    And the Hot AC station in New York is spinning the hell out of it. I hear “Cowboy Casanova” every time I’m in the car.

  96. It all depends on the music of course, but I think selling christmas albums well is typically a fanbase kinda/name recognition thing, so if he can hold his own, I don’t see how its not good!

    so far, so good tinawina… in the midst of all the new releases zooming up the itunes charts, he’s at number 24 on the overall chart… that is amazing to me, and i’m hoping as the chart settles, it goes back up… what a year it’s been…

  97. Lol. Next up is the ‘my idol’s cd is priced higher than your idol’s cd’  excuse if I recall correctly from last year?

    Where have you been? That dead horse has been beaten to a pulp.

  98. He is the 4th best selling Idol of all time and Jennifer Hudson’s success is not in music sales with her 700,000 total. An Oscar does not equal success in the music business!

    Let’s be factual because Jennifer’s sales are over 700k and she was certified gold. That’s her success in the music world also the album sold over a million worldwide. A feat that is hard for any NEW artist to reach in the days of failing album sales. Two top 5 singles on the R&B charts and a top 30 hit on Hot 100 with the album debuting at #2. And winning a Grammy for her first album. If thats not success in the music industry I don’t know what it. It may not be the groundbreaking sales of Carrie & Kelly but it’s only her first album.

    i think it trumps success in the music business, as it shows that she has transcended the idol bubble, blown through it like gangbusters, and is not solely dependent on a music career or record sales to have acclaim or garner recognition. jennifer hudson is in another class altogether, imho.

    This says it all. The Oscar may not be for music but to echo what was said it means success outside the general Idol population. Jennifer has reached different audiences in both music and movies and has gained success and recognition from both industry. Something other Idols have not done outside of music. It’s just too many accomplishments to name that Jennifer has made that makes her one of the most success people from the show ever. She can easily catch up in sales depending how well her second album sells when released next year.

  99. I also have never heard of Clay until finding this blog. I looked him up and he has a nice voice. I wonder how many CDs the older Idols would sell in todays market.

    Well, Clay is kind of a niche artist. He’s not someone who’s going to be burning up the pop charts anytime soon. And, he squandered whatever credibility he had in the music business on bad 80’s covers.

  100. Wow I can’t believe Adam is halfway to gold in 2 weeks! I also have never heard of Clay until finding this blog. I looked him up and he has a nice voice. I wonder how many CDs the older Idols would sell in todays market.

    lorismile – We’ll find out about Clay in early 2010 considering he is on a new major label and is finally free of 19’s manipulations.

  101. I said that all the news isn’t good. I didn’t say it was bad. A drop of 74% after Black Friday is okay. A less steep drop would be good news because it would mean that the album has stronger legs than the average. A steeper drop than 75% would have been bad news. A drop like SuBo had would have been fantastic news.

    Thank you for clarifying it for me. I knew it was more me not getting it. Susan Boyle drop is just a freak of nature. LOL BTW is SuBo drop one of the smallest drop for any artist debut at #1 especially coming off of Black Friday week. It is very very impressive. I knew Adam should have worn a sundress and a Barbara Bush wig during his time on idol. :mrgreen:

  102. Well, Clay is kind of a niche artist. He’s not someone who’s going to be burning up the pop charts anytime soon. And, he squandered whatever credibility he had in the music business on bad 80’s covers.

    Be careful many people would say that about Susan Boyle and look at what she is doing. In fact he would appeal to the Susan Boyle buying public. So he could shock us all and sell huge with everyone swearing they are not buying his album just like SuBo. ;-)

  103. Let’s be factual because Jennifer’s sales are over 700k and she was certified gold. That’s her success in the music world also the album sold over a million worldwide. A feat that is hard for any NEW artist to reach in the days of failing album sales. Two top 5 singles on the R&B charts and a top 30 hit on Hot 100 with the album debuting at #2. And winning a Grammy for her first album. If thats not success in the music industry I don’t know what it. It may not be the groundbreaking sales of Carrie & Kelly but it’s only her first album.

    dreyraglin – I looked up Jennifers sales, she has sold 776,000.

    Fantasia has sold more than 2.3 million albums, nominated for 8 Grammy awards, won 2 Billboard music awards, had countless charting hit singles on Urban radio and starred on Broadway. Why does she not count when successful Idols are named?

    Just what exactly is the criteria so we’re all on the same page?

  104. Clay is the one who has sold 6 million albums and is only one of 3 Idols to have more than one platinum album, and only one of 2 to hold the #1 position on the BB 200 2 weeks in a row.

    He is the 4th best selling Idol of all time and Jennifer Hudson’s success is not in music sales with her 700,000 total.

    Not to pick on Clay, because I don’t mean it that way, but there has to be a better way to gauge idol success than record sales. With the year to year decline it just doesn’t make sense to compare totals anymore. Perhaps we should assess them by BB200 rankings and chart longevity, something like that? In other words, did the album sell at the top of the market for a long time, did it stay on the BB200 a while, did that happen consistently over multiple albums, etc.

    But then again, it would probably start a whole new round of fighting, so maybe not. :)

  105. Um, Cook stayed in the Top 10 his 2nd and 3rd week. If anything, it was the opposite situation to Adam’s ‘“ Some people were trying to explain (in some cases diminish) the album’s continued success by saying it’s still the fanbase buying, we need to wait until the post holiday duldrums to see how it ‘really’  does etc. Not the same scenario as either Adam or Kris this year.

    He actually spent 4 consecutive weeks in the Top 10, then he fell to 13, then went back up to 10 his 6th week. He didn’t fall out of the Top 20 until his 12 week and even remained no lower than #18 during the January slump. IMO the only reason his numbers were knocked were because they weren’t Daughtry level.

  106. Would someone please explain why it is so important to be the best selling, or the fastest selling, or the most consistent selling Idol alumni? I would think that the important thing is to make money and to be around for awhile.

    Didn’t Kellie Pickler make more money than David Archuleta, and didn’t she finish farther down the list.

  107. Be careful many people would say that about Susan Boyle and look at what she is doing. In fact he would appeal to the Susan Boyle buying public. So he could shock us all and sell huge with everyone swearing they are not buying his album just like SuBo.

    And, good for him if he does. But that still won’t make the music any good. Just like SuBo’s crazy sales don’t make her cd anything more than warmed over covers packaged in a human interest story. (That’s my opinion anyway :))

  108. tinawina
    12/08/2009 at 6:58 pm
    True, but I think her point was his sales were attacked anyway. Which they were.

    My point is that I don’t think Cook’s situation last year is comparable to Adam’s this year. Dave had a drop off after the first week for sure, but his record was consistently a top seller out of the gates and by the time it fell out of the top 20 in week 12 his radio play for TOML and LO was pretty strong and was supporting the album, albeit at a slower pace of sales. FYE has fallen out of the top 20 in week 2, and it is just going to be a very different game for Adam. Not that it can’t be done, but it’s not going to be on the David Cook plan.

  109. “”sumidol ‘“ Clay is the one who has sold 6 million albums and is only one of 3 Idols to have more than one platinum album, and only one of 2 to hold the #1 position on the BB 200 2 weeks in a row.

    He is the 4th best selling Idol of all time and Jennifer Hudson’s success is not in music sales with her 700,000 total. An Oscar does not equal success in the music business!”””

    Ok, thanks but I wasnt the one who put up those names and Clay didnt come to mind because I just dont hear or see him anymore but at the time he was on Idol he was my favorite to win and I bought his cd so that is nice to hear that he did so well, I didnt know

  110. quite frankly, i’ve always been amazed that neither jennifer nor fantasia get a whole lotta love or ink on many idol related blogs for their accomplishments outside of the idol realm… this is a common meme we hear bandied about, from all fanbases, about the kind of success we want to see for our faves… recognition from peers in the industry via tony’s, grammy’s and oscars and all that jazz… these women have achieved that, and then some… no matter, they show that once you reach that level of respect and recognition outside of the idol bubble, what is written about you on idol blogs, or not, is of no real importance. hats off to these two alums, and i’m rooting for them both to keep kicking butts and taking names out in the big bad real world… :D

  111. DLee
    12/08/2009 at 7:04 pm
    Lol. Next up is the ‘my idol’s cd is priced higher than your idol’s cd’  excuse if I recall correctly from last year?

    Where have you been? That dead horse has been beaten to a pulp.

    OMG, did I miss it? Damn the bad luck……..

  112. Just what exactly is the criteria so we’re all on the same page?

    Very good point and I am sure the gauge would be as different as the number of posters on this blog. I personally think any of them still able to be making a living in the entertainment field and sing is succeeding in my book. A good amount of the idols came to the show working in dept store, restaurants, and minimum wage jobs. (now nothing wrong with any of these jobs there all good honest means of income) but most top 10 finalist in every year except maybe years 1 and 6 are all successfully sustaining livelihoods in the entertainment arena making a much better living then when they first tried out. Hell even William Hung made a good buck. So back to your original thought Success is relative and for the most part I think most of them are successful. Superstars- is another matter entirely IMHO

  113. ggdoorsfan
    12/08/2009 at 7:25 pm

    quite frankly, i’ve always been amazed that neither jennifer nor fantasia get a whole lotta love

    I agree and I think they are both Awesome!

  114. PS: I adore Fantasia. She is fierce! One thing that multiple Grammy nominations will indicate is that, even if she isn’t the most widely adored in the Idol bubble, clearly she has the respect of her peers. That’s a pretty big deal to someone in the music business.

  115. I can see comparisons of SuBo and Clay in that their voices don’t match their look, and I don’t mean that as an insult. I will have to check Clay’s CD when it comes out. Thankfully MJ keeps me updated on new Idol music. Adam is the only reason I even watched Idol at all. I don’t get the fan fighting. I want all the Idols to be successful not just Adam. Of course, if they all get signed I will be broke!

  116. Lol at the suggestion that Gold is the new Platinum, some artists can still make platinum. Carrie is at 730,000 5 weeks in. She will be platinum by the new year. Also Kristen, a 35% drop normally would be okay in your third week and a 20% drop in your fourth week right? But shouldn’t there be less of a drop because we are getting closer to Christmas? I would think for Kris especially he might need no drop to indicate he can sell through the holiday.

  117. I agree, dhunken. These guys try out for the show and most of them don’t expect to become international superstars. But as long as they can support themselves doing something they love, I consider that a success story. I know my son would be ecstatic to be able to support himself as a working musician. I’m sure that’s all most of these guys want.

  118. girlygirl
    12/08/2009 at 6:59 pm

    Honestly, I don’t see how anyone can look at these numbers and be happy about any of the AI8 people. Having said that, however, it’s far too early to go heavy on the doom& gloom about any of them. I want to see where they are at the end of December ‘” if they can keep from dropping too much the next few weeks, all 3 of them could do just fine.

    Girlygirl you are the rational voice of reason. Nicely and clearly stated. Between you and Kirsten I have been wrangled from the chaos of tons of speculation between euphoria and doom and gloom. Thanks

  119. Lol at the suggestion that Gold is the new Platinum, some artists can still make platinum.

    I’m with you. Obviously, Platinum is still doable when you capture the interest of the public. It’s hard to blame the economy when millions of people are willing to buy a SuBo cd.

    Yes, some really talented artists will never go platinum, and some really great music will go unheard. But, that doesn’t negate the benchmark. The benchmark still exists and is clearly attainable.

  120. And, good for him if he does. But that still won’t make the music any good. Just like SuBo’s crazy sales don’t make her cd anything more than warmed over covers packaged in a human interest story. (That’s my opinion anyway :) )

    Oh and its mine too I was just saying after Susan Boyle I wouldn’t count anything out these days. Sales does not always equal great music or songs.

  121. gangreen29
    12/08/2009 at 7:33 pm

    Lol at the suggestion that Gold is the new Platinum, some artists can still make platinum. Carrie is at 730,000 5 weeks in. She will be platinum by the new year. Also Kristen, a 35% drop normally would be okay in your third week and a 20% drop in your fourth week right? But shouldn’t there be less of a drop because we are getting closer to Christmas? I would think for Kris especially he might need no drop to indicate he can sell through the holiday.

    I agree its just that Attainable does not really mean that the comment about gold being the new platinum is wrong either. Platinum is the new diamond. (which use to be 10 million or more) Very few artist are able to get to the million sales mark. Only the the anomolies such as Susan Boyle or the super established like Carrie. Kelly and Daughtry have not even gone platinum at this point. Kelly’s album is surprising as it was great. Daughtry’s last album went platinum at this same juncture in time. Proof that the benchmark is a concern there is a lot of talk of changing the criteria for for what numbers get you the certification of Gold, Platinum, Diamond.

  122. I’m with you. Obviously, Platinum is still doable when you capture the interest of the public. It’s hard to blame the economy when millions of people are willing to buy a SuBo cd.

    Well, sorta. Take Taylor Swift. Selling machine. Multiple format smash singles. It girl of the moment, right? Well if you look a few years ago, her equivalent would have sold 10 million albums in a year… easily. So Taylor sells 4. That’s still great, but its not really what it used to be. Also, if someone had a big hit song it was almost a given their album would at least go gold, probabaly platinum, just off one song. How often does that happen nowadays? It doesn’t. Now, Jason Derulo can have a number 1 smash and barely get to 100K albums sold. Times have definitely changes on the album buying front, there’s no escaping it IMO. Its still possible, but it ain’t even faintly easy.

    My point is that I don’t think Cook’s situation last year is comparable to Adam’s this year.

    Ok progression, I get ya.

    He actually spent 4 consecutive weeks in the Top 10, then he fell to 13, then went back up to 10 his 6th week. He didn’t fall out of the Top 20 until his 12 week and even remained no lower than #18 during the January slump. IMO the only reason his numbers were knocked were because they weren’t Daughtry level.

    Funny how that works! LOL. A year later, he looks like a smash hit! Puts all that craziness last year in perspective.

  123. Well, sorta. Take Taylor Swift. Selling machine. Multiple format smash singles. It girl of the moment, right? Well if you look a few years ago, her equivalent would have sold 10 million albums in a year’ ¦ easily. So Taylor sells 4. That’s still great, but its not really what it used to be. Also, if someone had a big hit song it was almost a given their album would at least go gold, probabaly platinum, just off one song. How often does that happen nowadays? It doesn’t. Now, Jason Derulo can have a number 1 smash and barely get to 100K albums sold. Times have definitely changes on the album buying front, there’s no escaping it IMO. Its still possible, but it ain’t even faintly easy.

    Those numbers are so disheartening :( I hope the record labels are investing in technological development to stop illegal file sharing.

  124. Those numbers are so disheartening And all because people don’t want to pay for their music if they don’t have to. I hope the record labels are investing in technological development to stop illegal file sharing.

    It is disheartening. I feel sad that here in the US we have apparently raised a generation of thieves. Stealing, if by Broadband, is somehow okay. Nope. It’s no different than the kids who used to shoplift 45’s from the mall.

  125. i think it trumps success in the music business, as it shows that she has transcended the idol bubble, blown through it like gangbusters, and is not solely dependent on a music career or record sales to have acclaim or garner recognition. jennifer hudson is in another class altogether, imho.

    Oh goodness yes. Jennifer Hudson is in a total different class altogether.

  126. This was posted on AO by a mod (they’ve sure become very chatty lately!):

    Good analysis Hottforadam. 50-75% sales decreases in the second week are indeed normal, except for freak releases like Susan Boyle’s and Boccelli’s – both of which exemplify the biggest trend of this year’s sales declines: older consumers are the only ones still buying CDs. We saw it here at RCA too with Whitney Houston and Rod Stewart , both of which aren’t suffering as much from the overall sales downturn. Adam’s sales will increase again for the next 2 weeks leading into the holidays, though, so we should have at least 450k total copies scanned by January 1st. If this were 1999 instead of 2009, the sales would be 5x stronger, but between recession 2.0 and growing piracy and whatnot, this is the tough reality of record sales right now

    MJ have read your rules/guidelines on the other thread now and have a better understanding (should have done that first). Hoping not to transgress again.

  127. Rhianna took a -70% drop which is more significant as she’s an established star.

    Not really, IMO. For a second week drop coming off Black Friday, that’s not too bad. Neither is Adam’s’ ¦ that’s about what you would expect.

    Exactly. Its not too bad at all. He’s staying pretty close to people in his same pop type genre. Plus, I believe he hit the 250,000 mark, which is halfway to gold!!

    Is this becoming the thousandth doom thread regarding Adam’s career because he’s not pulling Susan Boyle’s numbers? Grant it, no one is pulling Susan Boyle’s numbers. lol

    I’m concerned about Allison since the normal drop is around 60% and she’s starting at only 31k.

  128. Oh and its mine too I was just saying after Susan Boyle I wouldn’t count anything out these days. Sales does not always equal great music or songs.

    The success of something, be it music, or movies or a TV show or the like has long had little to do with the quality of the production. Citizen Kane was considered a failure at the box office. Often the most popular work appeals to the lowest common denominator.

  129. IdolThoughts
    12/08/2009 at 6:35 pm
    All of my white elephant and fringe friend/relative gifts have been Archie Christmas, David Cook and FYE cds. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    Awwww, IdolThoughts…your friends need Kris’s CD! Then they will feel all warm and fuzzy inside! :wink:

  130. I think those numbers are pretty dismal for everyone BUT Susan Boyle and Bocelli. Less than 70k can get you in the Top 10? Yikes!

  131. I think those numbers are pretty dismal for everyone BUT Susan Boyle and Bocelli. Less than 70k can get you in the Top 10? Yikes!

    Agree but with one quibble: Taylor Swift is doing pretty amazingly considering her album was released more than a year ago. And still charting over 100,000+? That’s great.

    But yeah, overall, album sales aren’t doing that great.

  132. Now, Jason Derulo can have a number 1 smash and barely get to 100K albums sold.

    I just realized I said Jason Derulo when I meant Jay Sean. Oops.

  133. Those numbers are so disheartening I hope the record labels are investing in technological development to stop illegal file sharing.

    I know it is just so sad. Why can’t they do something about it? I’m a teenager and know how to get ANY music I want illegally and for free. I would never do it, but if I know how and I’m homeschooled just imagine the kids in public schools.

  134. I think those numbers are pretty dismal for everyone BUT Susan Boyle and Bocelli. Less than 70k can get you in the Top 10? Yikes!

    True.

  135. Very well written and thoughtful post, noctem, even if it does make my heart hurt a little.

  136. Clay is the one who has sold 6 million albums

    When did that happen?

  137. Idol fans are nothing if not optimists. His sales represent almost a 75% decline from the first week, when the normal, expected drop is 60 ‘“ 65 %.

    The “normal” second week drop is 60-70%, but he was coming off Black Friday so the expectation was between that and no radio play it would probably be a bit steeper. And it was. Plus he had a ton of pre-orders, and that usually forbodes a steep drop. So I don’t think his drop is unexpected.

    BUT, the single situation is something to watch IMO, because that will likely be problem in terms of album sales until he can get up to speed. I don’t know how WWFM will brand him, I hadn’t really thought about that. But I do think it is a potential hit. We’ll have to wait on that one.

    As far as the Davids last year… labels suck. LOL. But at least they tend to suck for everyone. I think they get it right only part of the time myself, so its a matter of luck and timing IMO.

  138. WOW noctem seizure, that’s deep and seriously impressing thought process you have!!! Thank you!

  139. noctem…thanks for having the courage to post what many have been feeling. His numbers are not good. And I can’t imagine that he will get that much airplay between now and the end of the year as the holidays are here. And a great discussion may be ahead as to the relevance of American Idol for the future finalists. Could it be that for now America already has all of the idols that they need?

  140. Could it be that for now America already has all of the idols that they need?

    To be honest I don’t know how much longer they can keep AI. I think they should end the show in good terms rather then waiting until after they run it into the ground. If that makes any sense at all.

  141. I looked up Jennifers sales, she has sold 776,000
    Fantasia has sold more than 2.3 million albums, nominated for 8 Grammy awards, won 2 Billboard music awards, had countless charting hit singles on Urban radio and starred on Broadway. Why does she not count when successful Idols are named?

    Just what exactly is the criteria so we’re all on the same page?

    I have never counted Fantasia out when it comes to success either. She like Jennifer has achieved great things in the world of music outside the Idol bubble as far as Idol people go. I get upset when I see Idol blogs and forum put her down as a big success just because she doesn’t have the record sales of Kelly or Carrie. When like you mentioned the 8 Grammy nominations and success of her debut and sophomore. I don’t see why Gold certified is not seen as a success from artist anymore. No Gold is not Platinum but that doesn’t mean Gold albums should be undermined. We can’t predict the future but Jennifer’s and Fantasia next albums can be huge and sell multi-platinum. People say R&B is not selling anymore but when you look at artist like Mary J Blige and Alicia Keys who sell a lot it makes that statement false. Look at Whitney’s new album which was just certified Platinum last week. If Whitney still can sell true R&B music and go Platinum so can Jennifer & Fantasia.

    dhunken
    12/08/2009 at 7:29 pm
    ggdoorsfan
    12/08/2009 at 7:25 pm

    quite frankly, i’ve always been amazed that neither jennifer nor fantasia get a whole lotta love

    I agree and I think they are both Awesome!

    This will always be something I will never understand. These two are some of the most successful people from the show but Idol blogs and forums show no love at all for them. Except MJ of course.

  142. Could it be that for now America already has all of the idols that they need?

    Well, there is a whole lot of them out there. Still, I can’t imagine there is a glut in the sense of if someone comes along who is just that good and just that current, they won’t hit because they are from Idol. But it is clearly not as easy as it used to be to get the Idol audience to run up your Christmas sales. So maybe the AI audience is not bothering as much as they used too, and maybe you really really have to show radio PDs something before they play. Still possible, but harder perhaps?

  143. noctem, i believe in giving props when they are due – we haven’t always seen eye to eye on things, but i’ve always respected your sometimes brutally honest comments. thanks for posting – have missed it. time does have a way of changing things, huh…

  144. I can just hear Cook telling RCA executives ,”I bet your loving me now!” His sales do look great at this point, but alas, we need to focus on the present, and the present looks bleak. As far as the season 8 idols lack luster sales, there is some good news and bad news. The bad news is well, the idol base is shrinking and is not buying cd’s like they used to. The good news? The idol base is shrinking, and the labels, and management have to reach beyond the idol fanbase in order for these idols to sell records, and get played on the radio. I hope that these season ends up doing well, they are all good kids with talent. I also believe that American Idol needs to continue to be perceived as the creator of stars, and not failures. This benefits all of our idols.

  145. Fantasia has sold more than 2.3 million albums, nominated for 8 Grammy awards, won 2 Billboard music awards, had countless charting hit singles on Urban radio and starred on Broadway. Why does she not count when successful Idols are named?

    Fantasia is successful in my book! I never got all the hate towards her.

  146. and maybe you really really have to show radio PDs something before they play Yes….and also the people that are buying music. Great point.

  147. lorismile
    I don’t get the fan fighting. I want all the Idols to be successful not just Adam. Of course, if they all get signed I will be broke!

    THIS! And this… :lol:

  148. This will always be something I will never understand. These two are some of the most successful people from the show but Idol blogs and forums show no love at all for them. Except MJ of course.

    I could be wrong, but from my observation most idol blogs aren’t too friendly towards R&B/urban type music. Ruben gets no love either and he’s also sold a lot of albums. Most seem to listen to more rock, country, and other genres.

  149. Well, in my opinion, gold is the new platinum.

    As has been noted, are we moving the goalposts?

    IMO, for someone with Adam’s hype, platinum should be his new gold — and not the other way around.

  150. These two are some of the most successful people from the show but Idol blogs and forums show no love at all for them. Except MJ of course.

    True story… this is why I can never take the idol blog chatter to heart When I first started doing the idol internet thing hardcore, it was late season 4. Now, I listen to and love all kinds of music, but at the time I was an urban radio girl primarily. I heard Fantasia all day and all night. She was everywhere. I knew tons of people with her album, she was in every magazine I read, every awards show I turned on. Most people I knew LOVED her. Then I started coming online, and saw tons and tons of posts declaring her an awful idol flop. I was like.. what? Are you kidding? The girl is a big star! I couldn’t believe it. But people stated it as if it was fact, and it wasn’t even disputable. I was stunned. But she wasn’t on their radio stations (pop) so it was like she didn’t exist. Meanwhile, in my world, Fanny was a huge star.

    So now, I take none of this stuff seriously. Its for fun. because honestly? People are only going to go by what THEY see, and not the big wide world outside their boundaries 9 times out of 10. So whatever, you know?

  151. Clay was kind of the Susan Boyle of AI. He had terrible thick glasses, bad hair and really dorky clothes. I remember Randy doing a double take when he opened his mouth and this big voice came out. Over the season he had laser eye surgery so he didn’t need glasses, got the newest hair style and a wardrobe upgrade so by the time Idol was over he had a complete makeover. Bad economy, music pirating and too many Idols flooding the market make for low sales. The Idol novelty has worn off. I really believe Adam will be okay. He is such a talent and beautiful person, I’m the optimist here. I really don’t believe in negativity as it’s a waste of energy that could be used better elsewhere IMO.

  152. A larger-level question that is very interesting is if Adam remains on the same sales track that he is on now’“ and I’ll be very plain here, if the current pattern holds, he is not going platinum’“ does that finally signal the death knell of American Idol as a starmaker? If Idol can’t make Adam, whom the media treated as if he were the one who invented music and song, into a superstar then who can they possibly make into one?

    I think it reflects the fact that the show has lost its way. I don’t think there was ever a chance in hell that Adam would be an international superstar, or any kind of superstar, no matter what RCA did. But they all somehow told themselves he would be and then pimped the heck out of him.

    I used to watch shaking my head and wondering what everyone was imbibing. Now it’s clear that most of the country feels the same.

    Adam’s first week sales signaled that they were wrong, but this week’s are way worse than even I expected, and the album is still dropping fast on iTunes. Meantime Kris’s sales were terrible and Allison’s were exactly what was to be expected.

    If they go back to what makes the show great – finding unpolished natural talent, rather than planting people they think can make them money, they might find another Carrie Underwood ….. or maybe a Susan Boyle! But I predict we’ll just get even more Adam-style plants next year and they’ll flop too.

  153. I hope the record labels are investing in technological development to stop illegal file sharing.

    I wonder if they really try. Seems like they could start by going after the people that provide the mp3 links for entire albums on Itunes.

  154. Unlike some folks, I’m not ready to throw in the towel or cry doom and gloom here. Huge fan of Kris, Adam and Allison and I think theyll be ok. Loved David Cook, but honestly I still dont have any friends or family that have heard of him(seriously). For all Idols first week sales are usually fan purchases. This year none of these idols have a radio hit, if anything playing on the radio. Adams song just debuted last week, most people still really do not know who he is but now wwfm seems to be doing pretty damn good in NY in only a week. He’s got industry buzz and people like him, he’ll be fine. Kris is a slow builder, song is doing great but he only plays small stuff, so again, I dont have any friends or family that have even heard of him. After the first week of sales they are all new artists like everyone else and now is where the real work comes in. Theyll be fine.

  155. Call me old fashioned but I am still and probably always will be a person who prefers to buy CD’s and not download music. This is why these #’s are so disheartening for me to see. What this tells me is that even though it is Christmastime and what should be a good time for music sales, it’s not happening because people would rather download music for FREE and saving their money on more important things (to them anyways) instead of supporting their favorite artists.

    I have talked to alot of family and friends over the last week or so who are big time Adam fans but yet they did not pay for his CD. They all told me that they downloaded it off Napster or wherever. One person even told me that she found all the songs from his CD posted on youtube and converted them to mp3’s. Until the industry finds a way to do away with services such as Napster, Limewire, and yes Youtube as well, music sales will continue to decline.

    Now, as far as lack of airplay. Do people really listen to the radio anymore?? With CD’s, Ipods, etc why would someone feel the need to call a radio station to hear their favorite songs. Just put your CD in, turn your ipod on, etc and listen to the songs. Single sales are not where the money is, album sales are. Like a musician friend of mine told me one time, radio is a dying breed. Same with MTV and VH1…do people really watch these channels for the videos anymore?

  156. Adam Lambert’s sales

    the complainers say= he is over-hyped, over-pimped, loads of promo
    the defenders say= AMA(lost fans/sales), polarizing, openly gay(lostfans/sales)

    Lets say these cancel each other out.
    We are left then, with an AI runner up, who has produced an album full of pop/dance/rock electro music that is not generic, easily digestible, country, MOR, AOR, RNB or any other acronym, but is something a bit ambitious and different, especially for a male artist in the US.
    Adam Lambert was ambitious and took a risk, and he sold almost 250k albums in 2 weeks.
    In my book, that is good. It should be celebrated. It may never do Carrie type numbers, but its a different genre. Way to go Adam.

  157. I’m going to respectfully disagree sally. I’m in the ‘he will only go so far in the US before hitting a wall’ camp, but international is a much better market for Adam. Hell, I didn’t think he’d get to the finale.

    And Carrie wasn’t exactly the unpolished talented idol made her out to be.

  158. I would not agree that platinum is the new gold, but I have to think that record labels are very happy with those who hit platinum, and are having to rethink the minimum sales necessary to give an artist a second CD. It used to be kind of a truism that if an Idol winner or runner-up sold platinum, then he or she would get a second album; if not, no second album. That isn’t the standard anymore, as Archie’s experience shows. What the standard will be this year is an open question, and may depend on the label, etc.

  159. At each appearance he will have millions watching and get an opportunity to make a third/first impression.
    Last year’s ratings for Barbara Walters Special was better than 10 million and The View easily gets 4 million on average. SYTYCD gets 12 million plus and the season finale should get their highest ratings. Leno gets decent ratings and I think Adam and the band will end up somewhere great for New Year’s Eve and the People’s choice Jan 6th.

    At this point I am not sure if these TV appearances would have a significant impact at all. I don’t recall WWFM getting a significant sales increase after Adam performed it on Letterman, for instance.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this season of SYTYCD gets an average of 5-6 Million viewers , at most. If you increase that a little because of the finale, it will probably increase a a million or so, but definitely not 12 Million viewers. TV By Numbers ratings

  160. So now, I take none of this stuff seriously. Its for fun. because honestly? People are only going to go by what THEY see, and not the big wide world outside their boundaries 9 times out of 10. So whatever, you know?

    That is such a true, true, true, true statement

  161. It’s sad for these kids who are trying to live their dreams and are all so talented. Everything I guess plays a part. Stealing music particulary bothers me.
    For Adam to me it’s complicated. AI fans know he’s very talented but do others outside the bubble know? Even many who liked Adam on AI, may not be following his career as we do, and may not even know he has a cd out. Label promotion, the AMAs, the cd cover, timing, economy, etc. probably all play a factor. There may be something else. Some of the Adam fans I knew who loved him when he was on AI, thought he was the next Freddie Mercury; or someone that reminded them of their music from the 70’s and would bring back classic rock. I think of what Randy kept telling Adam on his run on AI, “you are a rock star baby..that’s who you are” and “I hope you consider when you make your album that you (do) rock” & the suggestion of working with Slash. Some got excited he would be with QUeen. Many just wanted him to belt out a song and utilize that 3+ octave range. I think expectations were for him to do more classic/70’s rock type songs and/or showcase that voice of his. People are buying up Susan Boyle and Andrea B’s cds b/c they hear them belting out a song. Taylor Swift and Carrie can sing and sell on the very sellable country radio and pop music; getting it from both ends. Adam set out to give a nod to 70’s glam rock and 80’s music yet still have a current but electic sound. Maybe he should have started out just singing rock and power ballads? Then IF he became big, do whatever he likes???? I don’t know. Just taking stabs at longshots I guess. I still believe as I’ve said over the last few months that Simon will end up being right about Adam and he will overall do better worldwide than here in the US. JMHO.
    I truly hope that AI lives on for kids to have an opportunity to make it and get known. I also hope all S8’s Idols do very well in the long run, I really do!

  162. The show works as a Cinderella fantasy. So they need to go back to that kind of contestant – diamond in the rough. Neither Kris or Adam really fit the picture. Kris because he didn’t really care about winning and Adam because he was already part of the LA scene.

    Danny was the closest they had but he really was too much the amateur. I think the talent they find is fine but they can’t get the spark back until they have the Cinderella story line. The queen of the Cinderella story being of course…SuBo.

  163. I think Adam does have some things to work out. I’m in no way an Adam fan but he can have potential to becoming a success as I have seen with other Idols. To be realistic can Adam reach platinum status? Yes. But if his sales go the way they are currently meaning if he takes another big drop next week then it’s very hard to say. Unless his singles pick up IDK what to say as I can’t predict the future. I keep seeing people say WWFM is picking up radio adds and thats good but looking at the current trend right now with what stays on the charts downloads are whats keeping and propelling people to the top of the charts and WWFM is sitting at #183 on iTunes currently. As we can see FYE has fallen out of the charts and WWFM isn’t really doing any better “yet”. Adam has to have a single out there to keep his album alive. No it doesn’t have to be #1 single but a good charting single can do some good.

    I really do wish Adam, Kris and Allison all the success they can get even though I’m not fans of either. Only reason why is because I hate when people doubt other Idols of succeeding just makes they don’t move numbers like Carrie or Kelly. Jennifer proved them all wrong which is why I root for her so Adam can do the same.

  164. Simon Fuller is a real creep about the Idols he doesn’t manage. Even if they’re under the 19R umbrella, they never get the same promo as the ones he manages.

    If he doesn’t manage them, I don’t understand why you think he’s to blame for what happens to them? Simon Fuller runs the management company but he has nothing to do with the various labels within the Sony-BMG umbrella. If he doesn’t manage them, someone else does. That company + the label are responsible for what promo they get.

  165. Until the industry finds a way to do away with services such as Napster, Limewire, and yes Youtube as well, music sales will continue to decline.

    The music theft is sad, indeed.

    Just to clarify, as I understand matters, Napster was a pioneer in the music-sharing field but is now a legitimate SELLER of music online.

  166. jpfan
    … Kris because he didn’t really care about winning

    Of course Kris cared about winning. He just said that his strategy was to make it to the Top 10, then to make it to the next week, then the next week, etc. Maybe he didn’t see himself as the winner, but he was obviously in it to win it.

  167. Yes the economy and overall sales in the music industry are down but there are still pockets of success. USA Today has an article out about how 4 artists this year have sold over the 10 million mark in singles, breaking Rihanna’s previous mark of over 9 million last year. Lady Gaga leads with over 13 million and the other 3 artists are Taylor Swift, Michael Jackson and Black Eyed Peas. Albums sales such as from Susan Boyle and Taylor Swift show that the public is still willing to pay for product should they determine it is a worthy investment. The Susan Boyle album is now a novelty item, a souvenir from 2009 that everyone has to have with them to take into the next decade. And songs from the other artists mentioned who have sold the most singles also define the sound of this year and place in time, the public has a reason to invest in them and hence ponies up the money.

    The problem isn’t all the kids “stealing” music, it is the labels refusing to change the business model. There is no possible way to end illegal downloading because all there needs to be is one person who rips the song and they can make a billion copies. At this point music is just a mere promotion tool to get people to become fans and invest in going to a show, buying merchandise and getting people to advocate for them to their friends, family and all over the internet. Sadly the radio is still the biggest vehicle for exposure. Sure the internet and alternative programming on radio and TV helps but there is a direct correlation between radio spins and sales, an artist is not going to be commercially viable without it. Those artists who work the system of playing the radio game but also offering content beyond the virtually free download are going to be the most successful.

  168. It used to be kind of a truism that if an Idol winner or runner-up sold platinum, then he or she would get a second album; if not, no second album. That isn’t the standard anymore, as Archie’s experience shows.

    Yet Archie’s single, Crush, approaches 2 million in sales. (His album is around 700K, right?)

  169. Kris killed the drama of the finale by saying Adam should have won. He seems perfectly content with being overshadowed even if he was the winner. Which makes him a very healthy person mentally but not exactly inspiring fans to think winning matters at all. I don’t think anything about Kris’ roll out would have changed if he came in second.

    Kris is just not the break into tears kind of winner people like to see.
    I still think Adam and Kris can do well selling music so it’s a little early to write their obits. Kris’ single should have a good day tomorrow for instance.

  170. nya1121: Loved David Cook, but honestly I still dont have any friends or family that have heard of him(seriously).

    Please share with them this Cook performance of Lie, it’s from the Carrie U. special last night. A stunning performance of a beautiful song.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P40XyZze-NI

  171. I agree, tigervixxxen, right now people are saying that Rihanna’s cd is crashing and burning. But from what i can tell, shes can put fans butts in concert chairs (which means money and merchandising). She is also at the prime of her popularity. Lady Gaga worked her butt off this year starting out slowly and then out of no where just exploding. I’m not making excuses for anyones lower album sales, I’m just saying that an artists money is in being able to sell themselves and be known.

  172. (His album is around 700K, right?)

    Total Sales: 734,576+ in us…

    Worldwide has it at 812,500

  173. Am i going insane here? why are people complaining about Adam’s sales on here? the man sold a quarter of a million cds in 2 weeks. This past week has been pretty slow on promotion. This week, the promotion is gonna kick it up a notch with the 10 most fascinating, the view, larry king and his upcoming interviews with Leno, Conan and his performance on SYTYCD. Did no one notice how far Rihanna dropped and how low Shakira debuted and dropped? I dont hear people counting them out. Adam is still a really big star here whether people like it or not and he’s gonna continue to make headlines.

  174. Adam’s first week sales signaled that they were wrong, but this week’s are way worse than even I expected, and the album is still dropping fast on iTunes. Meantime Kris’s sales were terrible and Allison’s were exactly what was to be expected.

    I’m just pulling this quote out, since I think it is just as wrong as all the others that have been posted. Has anyone compared Kris, Adam and Allison’s sales to other people, especially new artists, who have released albums this year? Their numbers are not bad, how many albums would anyone sale if they don’t have a hit song on the radio, and if nobody knows who they are. These sales numbers only tell us that none of the people who signed this year are benefiting from the huge idol fan bases that previous signees had. But, so what?

    Jay Sean has two top 20 hits, one of which sold over a million copies, but he couldn’t even sell 50,000 copies of his cd in the first week. That’s just what the current market is like for new artists. People want to hear more than one song from them before they will part with more than $1.29.

    AI first week sales are not an indication of how much someone likes an album, or a song, or how well an album will do. AI first week sales have always been about the idol fanbase, and we already knew that nobody from this season would benefit from a large AI fan base, but so what? Even those in the past who had big fan bases still had to reach out to those who weren’t fans of the show, it’s been a failure to do that, not poor first week sales, which have lead to the labels dropping previous idols such as Taylor and even Clay.

    I know it may be some work, but just look at the sales of Kris’ single since it was released, the talk about people not liking the song have proven to be false. As the song has gotten more exposure, the sales have increased. Adam’s singles aren’t selling because people don’t like them, they aren’t selling because people don’t know they exist, it’s the same case with Allison and her single. Why don’t we wait for these people to get more exposure (the kind that focuses on music, not the kind that Adam has been getting), before we talk about how they are flops.

  175. Well said, melirose89. I really dont get the doom and gloom either. Now he’s a new artist like all other new artists. He’s gotta go out there and sell his stuff and make a name for himself. Now we can see what he’s really made of. I cant wait.lol

  176. And Carrie wasn’t exactly the unpolished talented idol made her out to be

    Exactly! She had a lot of performance experience. More than Adam, if you take out his theatrical experience.

  177. “Why don’t we wait for these people to get more exposure (the kind that focuses on music, not the kind that Adam has been getting), before we talk about how they are flops.
    I understand your reasoning but how much more exposure does Adam need?”

    He’s already gotten Rolling Stone cover, Details, AMA Performance, View, Larry King, Barbara Walter Special. That’s a mighty hefty amount of press plus all the tv performances like Conan or Leno or whatnot. People know his music is out there, it’s just that there not buying it like they are Carrie’s. I’m just saying it’s a matter more than exposure because he has gotten a heapful amount of exposure since Idol. I guess we will have to wait and see for all the Idols.

  178. At this point I am not sure if these TV appearances would have a significant impact at all. I don’t recall WWFM getting a significant sales increase after Adam performed it on Letterman, for instance.

    I wouldn’t expect many to rush to buy any single on a first listen. But each time they hear it, each exposure, makes it more likely. So they hear it once on Letterman, maybe again on Leno and then, hey, there it is on the radio. And maybe then they’re thinking it’d be nice on their ipod. Or not. Maybe they just enjoy listening to it when they hear it and do nothing. But then some award show comes on in 6 months to a year and Adam sings something on it (or maybe a friend drags them to his concert) and wow, hey, they really liked that, and dang if they don’t download the single or the album then. It’s really pretty random what makes people finally decide to buy music when they aren’t part of a core fan base. Things like good youtube fan vids help (frex this Broken Open one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ywvzJy19w8 ).

    I think at this point more than album sales, it’s important for labels and artist’s management to get a feel for how many people are creating vids using the music, watching the vids, and illegally downloading. That will give them a better feel for how in demand the music/artist is and will show a bit about the demographics interested. Then they need to translate this into merchandise sales, concert tix, and product endorsements targeting that audience.

  179. HappyDaisy
    12/08/2009 at 9:54 pm
    nya1121: Loved David Cook, but honestly I still dont have any friends or family that have heard of him(seriously).

    Please share with them this Cook performance of Lie, it’s from the Carrie U. special last night. A stunning performance of a beautiful song.

    I was a huge David Cook fan last year, but I was disappointed in this performance. I know I’m probably in the minority, but I like the version on the album more than last night’s performance.

  180. To be realistic can Adam reach platinum status? Yes. But if his sales go the way they are currently meaning if he takes another big drop next week then it’s very hard to say.

    The unfortunate thing is that mathematically, platinum is dicey even if he doesn’t take a big drop next week. I ran the numbers against Cook’s weekly increase/decline pattern from last year (those were the percentages I had at my fingertips without doing some serious research), and even if FYE holds as steady as DCTR did, it will still take almost 12 weeks to reach gold. (Because of Dave’s higher raw numbers in his first two weeks, he did it in 4). That would be mid-February or so, when albums in the Top 50 of the BB200 are barely selling 10K a week. At that rate, it’s a long, laborious slog to 1 million.

    Now obviously, it can be done. Jordin Sparks is a great example of someone who made that long laborious slog. And artists like Lady Gaga and Kings of Leon proved last year that true breakout hits can propel an album past platinum later in its lifecycle. But that’s what it would take – a couple of serious breakout hits. WWFM might be one, or maybe the next one will build on the foundation that’s being laid now. But the reality is that the “he’s halfway to GOLD!!” pronouncements may be cold comfort come January. Because as much as the industry has been changing over the past few years, nobody cares about halfway to gold.

    Yeah, I know. Just call me the angel of death.

  181. People know his music is out there, it’s just that there not buying it like they are Carrie’s

    Of course they’re not! Did you expect them to? She is an established country artist who has successfully crossed over into pop. Why are we comparing Carrie and Adam?

  182. He’s already gotten Rolling Stone cover, Details, AMA Performance, View, Larry King, Barbara Walter Special. That’s a mighty hefty amount of press plus all the tv performances like Conan or Leno or whatnot. People know his music is out there, it’s just that there not buying it like they are Carrie’s. I’m just saying it’s a matter more than exposure because he has gotten a heapful amount of exposure since Idol. I guess we will have to wait and see for all the Idols.

    At this point, the focus still isn’t on Adam’s music. I’m not making excuses for him, because believe me, I’m not a fan, but even the shows that he’s doing, where he sings, will only go so far since he doesn’t have any radio presence. New artists need exposure via radio, they aren’t going to get the same type of mileage out of public appearances that established artists will get. We saw the short bump in sales that LLWD got after Kris did several public appearances, but those bumps are nothing in comparison to what has happened as the song has gotten played more and more on the radio. It’s a fact that can’t be disputed, radio exposure equals sales, even for songs that aren’t that great. There’s a huge difference from doing a five minute performance on a show that reaches 2 to 12 million people, and a song being played two to five times a day on radio stations that reach millions of people.

  183. LOL! I am with all the peeps who say Adam is fine this week. His label won’t complain. His second week sales are better than a lot of artists and not far from some of the better known artists. I will be buying at least one more Adam CD this week as a Xmas gift and his single is getting increasing spins, FYE video is getting increasing views, his album is getting good reviews. And he is doing some good promo between now and NYE. I think Adam will be around to make album number two for sure. Hopefully is momentum will continue in January. He will prob get on Idol I february or whenever they start the real show for that. I think Archie as runner up was on pretty early last year. And the Idol appearance always gives a boost to album and single sales too.

  184. Carrie’s label is pushing her country song on HAC.

    Actually Kirsten Cowboy Casanova hasn’t even gotten an adds date on Hot AC. It’s a subject of angst among some Carrie fans LOL (not me but the ones who care about her crossing over). There’s no label push either because Carrie’s label is Arista Nashville and doesn’t have the connections to push a song on Hot AC.

    It’s not like Carrie’s doing interviews on Hot AC either – well she did one with the New York Hot AC station but that was to promote the CMAs. They didn’t play her song again until a few weeks after the interview. They’re a very Idol friendly station. I still hear Bo Bice’s The Real Thing on there every now and again. But heck she didn’t even do interviews with Hot AC stations to cross promote her TV special and single – David Cook was the one doing the Hot AC interviews.

    Somehow Cowboy Casanova’s made top 30 on Hot AC without the label help. I don’t know how high it’ll go without a push but I’ll take it.

  185. ladymadonna
    Yeah, I know. Just call me the angel of death.

    LOL and I love your theory as you lay it out there with numbers and logic hence I’m quite convinced! Are u a mathematician?

  186. Given the way pop is at the moment, I think the promo all the Idols are doing is about 2 things: 1. letting the Idol audience know they are out there with a CD, because that’s who is going to buy their albums right now and 2. Increasing name recognition among everyone else, hoping, at best, they buy the song if not now, later when they hear it again on their radio. It’s foundation building for a future audience.

    That said, you cannot compare idols directly to brand new acts, because Idols spent 6 months selling themselves to 20-30 million people week, had budgets and top people for their first albums that put all the the true newbies to shame (even the idols we argue got gypped), and have access to national media other newbies don’t get until AFTER their songs chart. They are not even close to other new acts in the traditional sense, so they should, in theory, do BETTER than those guys. To the degree that doesn’t happen, to me, says something about just how much they failed to take in the market they all got a tremendous amount of exposure too.

    All that can be overcome of course. It is not the end of the world. But while I agree it is too soon to panic and they could all be fine in the long run, I also want to point out that there is some reason for concern, and that these guys are not just like other new artists.

    ETA: And no, this post is not about Adam per se. Its about assessing idol rollouts.

  187. OMG, windmills, I hear Cowboy Casanova on PLJ all.the.time. I must just hit it right, when I get in the car, LOL.

  188. “I think Archie as runner up was on pretty early last year. And the Idol appearance always gives a boost to album and single sales too.”

    He was on Top 7 Disco Week in April.

    And I do agree that once Idol returns in January and Kris, Adam and Allison perform on the show sales will increase for sure.

  189. Did no one notice how far Rihanna dropped

    Good point. Rihanna dropped almost as much as Adam, and other stars like Miley made big drops too. Rihanna and Adam are in the same boat here: a fanbase, but no hit single.

    I still think that Adam’s rollout and release was messed up in quite a few ways, and Idol as a whole is losing its power, but I’m not counting him out.

  190. jpfan
    ‘ ¦ Kris because he didn’t really care about winning

    Of course Kris cared about winning. He just said that his strategy was to make it to the Top 10, then to make it to the next week, then the next week, etc. Maybe he didn’t see himself as the winner, but he was obviously in it to win it.

    I think a better way to describe it is that Kris cared about getting a record contract, and he knew that his best chance of doing that was by going far into the competition. But, he knew that in order to get the deal that he wanted, he would have to perform the type of music that he wanted to perform outside of the idol bubble. Unlike previous contestants, he didn’t compare himself to anyone else, or try to copy anyone else, which is probably why he hasn’t gotten all caught up in the silly drama that exists between some fans. Kris knows who he is as a musician, and whatever anyone else is doing, including Adam, that doesn’t change how he goes about viewing himself or his career.

    It’s strange that people want to judge Adam’s success based on what Kris is doing, how does that make any sense? Kris doesn’t have to fail in order for Adam to succeed and vice versa. Kris not selling 300,000 albums during the first week doesn’t change the fact that Taylor was released. Adam and Kris not selling more than the Davids did last year, doesn’t change the fact that radio stations avoided Archie’s second single like there was something wrong with it, or that David Cook couldn’t find any love from pop stations.

  191. The truth is the real problem is that Adam and the fellow S8 idols are simply not getting the radio airplay so there aren’t enough single sales and so then they aren’t getting any radio play and so on…

    Until they start having huge single sales, this trend will cont.

    And look at this pop chart. It’s a scandal. Ppl who are buying Susan Boyle are like out of their freaking minds. She’s a decent singer but certainly not extraordinary. Her sales are beyond ridiculous. Who likes that kind of music? It’s not show music and it’s not pop. I don’t even get it. And Taylor Swift… seriously? WTH. I just copied my friends iPod so I have pretty much the whole fearless on my iPod and I only like 3 of the songs. She not that terrific. Why is she still selling amazingly well with an album that’s a freaking year old. And Allison’s debut was terrible. If Jive is really going to market her so poorly, they probably shouldn’t have invested in the first place. Though I agree with MJ, Jive can still market her as a new and growing artist since the Idol connection is weak. This still allows her the best chance of “Kradison” to become mainstream.

  192. “Adam and Kris not selling more than the Davids did last year, doesn’t change the fact that radio stations avoided Archie’s second single like there was something wrong with it, or that David Cook couldn’t find any love from pop stations.”

    Yeah, I never understood why Archie’s second single received no radio airplay. Radio is messed up. Jordin Sparks may be the last success idol has come off the show if radio doesn’t start picking up some of these S7 and S8 idols.

  193. I just copied my friends iPod so I have pretty much the whole fearless on my iPod

    and therein lies part of the problem.

  194. Rihanna and Adam are in the same boat here: a fanbase, but no hit single.

    Rihanna’s Russian Roulette hit #9 on Hot 100 and her second single Hard debuted at #18

  195. Ummmm, excuse me smartalek, but radio definitely picked up David Cook of S7. He was one of the top artists of the year on HAC (I will have to look up the stats) and got more love than is acknowledged on Pop. TOML ruled AC for a long time and will probably play there forever. As far as sales success, he had the 13th most sales of the last chart year. If 2 platinum singles and a platinum album (in 3 months) in these hard economic times is not success, I don’t know what is.

  196. Not to mention that Cook’s 3 songs are still receiving significant airplay in recurrency. Just sayin’…

  197. Are u a mathematician?

    No, but I play one on TV.

    And I do agree that once Idol returns in January and Kris, Adam and Allison perform on the show sales will increase for sure.

    Yes, they certainly should. The question is how much, and from what weekly base point will they increase? Idol bumps vary widely. Here’s how the past three winners/runners-up have spiked in album sales the week they performed on Idol (sorry, I don’t have Blake’s numbers handy):

    Jordin (performing No Air) – 27% increase, sold 24,295
    Archie (performing Touch My Hand) – 34% increase, sold 12,205
    Cook (performing Come Back to Me) – 239% increase, sold 24,769

    Jordin had a modest increase but was selling at a strong weekly clip on the heels of a monster hit (No Air). Cook’s weekly sales were much lower (7300 units the week before his appearance), but his spike was massive. They ended up selling about the same off their Idol performances. So yeah, it all come down to the math. Idol can be huge, but the effects only last a week or two at most. It’s not something to hang your entire sales strategy around.

  198. CHART DATE: 12/07/2009
    LAST UPDATE: 12/08/2009 14:14:08
    NOW IN: FINAL

    33 DAVID ARCHULETA 19/JIVE/ZLG 35,590 ‘“

    “I think that IF these numbers hold up, they are impressive. What makes them more impressive is that they were achieved without a Letterman, Conan, Leno etc. appearance; without a GMA, Today Show, Regis appearance; without a music video; without a Top 40 hit being played on the radio; without many spins generally; without an appearance on a big holiday special; without a front page ITUNE ad; without feature articles in People, EW, Rolling Stone etc.; and without 19M.”

    Now run and tell THAT!

  199. Yeah, Cook and Archuleta have gotten significant amount of airplay with Archuleta’s “Crush” and Cooks “TOML” but I agree neither of them recieved as much as Jordin’s singles did for “Tattoo” “One Step At A Time” “Battlefield” and especially “No Air.”

    So with a singles standpoint Jordin is the last successful Idol who won. But album standout Cook outsold her.

  200. Rihanna and Adam are in the same boat here: a fanbase, but no hit single.

    Rihanna’s Russian Roulette hit #9 on Hot 100 and her second single Hard debuted at #18

    Russian Roulette was a flop by Rihanna standards. Before it, she had a string of 3 BB #1’s… RR getting to #9 was on the strength of Rihanna’s name, and it didn’t STAY there for long like a true hit does either. She took a big risk with this new dark, slower paced album, in contrast to her uptempo pop songs.

    Rihanna’s fanbase is bigger than Adam’s, and her name is much bigger, but she’s still in the same sort of predicament as Adam–she needs a hit single. I hope Hard takes off–I love that song, just bought it and have it on repeat.

  201. Rihanna does have hits, which means there is no reason why she is not selling alot more albums, but she is a singles artist. Give these idols some time, whats the rush. I too am guilty contributing to low album sales, sad to say. Most of my friends and family knew i would buy adams album, so i just let them borrow mine. Surprisingly, they all have multiple if not all of the singles on their ipods. My bro actually said he was pissed, he wanted to know why Adam didnt sing like this on the AMA’s. He wasnt an adam fan before, but i snuck a peak at his ipod, lo and behold, the entire album was playlisted.lol.

  202. Ummmm, excuse me smartalek, but radio definitely picked up David Cook of S7. He was one of the top artists of the year on HAC (I will have to look up the stats) and got more love than is acknowledged on Pop. TOML ruled AC for a long time and will probably play there forever. As far as sales success, he had the 13th most sales of the last chart year. If 2 platinum singles and a platinum album (in 3 months) in these hard economic times is not success, I don’t know what is.

    She’s referring to the pop charts. LO did okay on pop, but nothing else did. Cookie rules on HAC primarily. I think she’s talking about Idols becoming pop staples.

    That said, Kelly sorta did season 1 (1 big hit, 2 meh followups), nobody did seasons 2 and 3, Carrie took over Country radio season 4 and generated 1 huge crossover pop hit about 4 singles in, And Daughtry and Jordin handled 5 & 6. Idol has a spotty history of spitting out people who consistently chart on pop with their first album.

    What Idols have been able to do consistently IMO is have at least one person a year that sells albums near the top of the market, even if it was only through Christmas. Adam is the best hope for pulling that off this year so we’ll see what happens.

  203. Russian Roulette was a flop by Rihanna standards. Before it, she had a string of 3 BB #1’s’ ¦ RR getting to #9 was on the strength of Rihanna’s name, and it didn’t STAY there for long like a true hit does. She took a big risk with this new dark, slower paced album, in contrast to her uptempo pop songs. I respect her for it, but she hasn’t had a true hit from this album yet.

    Rihanna’s fanbase is bigger than Adam’s, and her name is much bigger, but she’s still in the same sort of predicament as Adam. I hope Hard takes off’“love that song, just bought it and have it on repeat.

    You make a valid point. Her singles have just made a bigger impact though than Adam which is why i really don’t put them in the same boat IMO but I guess to each it’s own. I just think a song can be a hit with out being at #1. That goes for anyone who can get at least a Top 40 hit.

  204. Ok, just jumping on here, and haven’t read too much. But I’m sure by now we’ve declared that Kradison have been collectively dropped from their labels. Glad we got that out of the way.

    Now on to the present: Kris IS getting really strong airplay with LLWD, so I don’t see what the fuss is about that. WWFM is showing a lot of positive growth on radio, and I think that will continue, because it is super catchy and radio friendly. The itunes sales (or lack thereof) of it are weird, but I think FYE is getting in the way a bit, and it still hasn’t yet gotten ENOUGH airplay to really see the effect in sales.

    I also think Adam represents a needed change on radio. EVERY pop artist now on the radio is female, hip hop, or in a group. I don’t get that – who says we can’t have a mega talented, charismatic MALE pop singer. RCA is banking on Adam breaking that mold and becoming that next big thing. And I think he really stands a chance of doing that IF radio can actually try something new (which it does, but only every now and then).

  205. Rihanna does have hits, which means there is no reason why she is not selling alot more albums, but she is a singles artist.

    She hasn’t had a hit off of Rated R yet. Not by the standards of the top echelon of pop music, who can go Top 20 or 10 on the strength of their name for a lead single… which Russian Roulette did… and then promptly dropped off, because it didn’t have appeal to people BEYOND Rihanna’s name…they just didn’t like it a fraction of as much as they liked Take A Bow, If I Never See Your Face Again, and Disturbia. I’m not bashing Rihanna or Russian Roulette here, because I love both– but the single underperformed for a Rihanna song.

    To me, that completely explains why she’s not selling well. Singles artist or not, her last album did go double platinum.

    Part of it is the lack of a hit single, part of it is just the dismal state of the music industry in general–and yes, pirating is a huge part of it, which is why Taylor in her 50-something week is selling better than Lady Gaga in her 2nd (Gaga’s demographic is more likely to steal music). I just hope Adam and Rihanna, two of my favorite artists, can have hit singles with WWFM and Hard and that I’ll see them at the top of the charts yet :)

  206. Noctem –

    Interesting post but here’s my problem with your analysis:

    David Cook: 56 week lookback
    David A: 58 week lookback
    Adam: 3-4 week lookback

    IMO, it is far to early in the game to assess with any degree of confidence whether certain decisions – i.e. the album cover, the single, the AMA – were road bumps, slight detours or “epic blunders,” as you put it, on the path that is Adam’s career. For me, personally, and for many others (I believe), a little distance gives a whole lot of perspective.

  207. Idol has a spotty history of spitting out people who consistently chart on pop with their first album.

    Yes. And as discussed at length in regards to Fantasia upthread, CHR is far from the only place to find radio success, no matter how Pop-centric Idol blogs (and boards like Pulse) may be. There are lots of roads to success for these Idols.

    That being said, David Cook has gotten 70,237 spins on CHR this year, and is the #52 artist on that format in 2009. I guess maybe that’s not much love, but I’ll take it.

  208. What Idols have been able to do consistently IMO is have at least one person a year that sells albums near the top of the market, even if it was only through Christmas. Adam is the best hope for pulling that off this year so we’ll see what happens.

    It has been hard for idols, over all eight seasons, to be taken seriously by radio, which is why even the ones who have sold well have been dropped. The important point that your example fails to take into consideration is that the previous idols were not selling albums based on the music, how could they since they weren’t getting any significant airplay, and they were not selling to those who didn’t watch AI, they were selling to hardcore AI fans, who could have cared less about the music. We’ve already had enough evidence that shows that nobody from this year will have this same type of luck. The current sales for Adam’s singles pretty much screams this fact. Even David Cook acknowledged how harder things will be with his second album because he won’t have the benefit of just coming off of AI.

    As far as appearing on AI, the sales boost from that only lasts a few days. As much as these appearances are necessary and helpful, they still don’t have the continuous and long lasting impact that radio has. IMO, Kris is in the best position, because it actually looks like he is being taken seriously at radio, and not just someone who’s getting airplay because he was on a reality tv show.

  209. The problem isn’t all the kids ‘stealing’  music, it is the labels refusing to change the business model. There is no possible way to end illegal downloading because all there needs to be is one person who rips the song and they can make a billion copies. At this point music is just a mere promotion tool to get people to become fans and invest in going to a show, buying merchandise and getting people to advocate for them to their friends, family and all over the internet. Sadly the radio is still the biggest vehicle for exposure. Sure the internet and alternative programming on radio and TV helps but there is a direct correlation between radio spins and sales, an artist is not going to be commercially viable without it. Those artists who work the system of playing the radio game but also offering content beyond the virtually free download are going to be the most successful.

    Loved this – very good analysis. And this segues to my other point, re Adam and his PR:

    He’s already gotten Rolling Stone cover, Details, AMA Performance, View, Larry King, Barbara Walter Special. That’s a mighty hefty amount of press plus all the tv performances like Conan or Leno or whatnot.

    As Babybelle said, much of this promo isn’t JUST about the music, it’s about Adam as a brand. I seriously think that RCA/19 laid the seeds early on (since RS) to make Adam more of a brand, rather than JUST a musician. Now, of course, the music needs to get out there more, predominantly through radio. But the rest of it, all the media interest, magazines, etc. is about more, because, as artists like Gaga show, that brand is more valuable nowadays in music than JUST being a good singer who can sing good songs well (see illegal downloads above).

  210. EVERY pop artist now on the radio is female, hip hop, or in a group. I don’t get that ‘“ who says we can’t have a mega talented, charismatic MALE pop singer.

    13 – 17 females say there can’t be. There can only be cute auto-tuned boys like Justin Beiber. That kid released his album the same week as Kris. By the end of the year it will have more sales than Kris and Adam combined.

  211. IMO, for someone with Adam’s hype, platinum should be his new gold ‘” and not the other way around.

    I think he should go platinum at some point. Absolutely.

    Adam has already exceeded my expectations. He did get a lot of the judges’ praise on AI, but he was also a wild card. Awesome voice, but someone that just pushed all the limits. He wasn’t safe for the franchise at all. I am thrilled at Adam’s reception thus far. :)

  212. The important point that your example fails to take into consideration is that the previous idols were not selling albums based on the music, how could they since they weren’t getting any significant airplay, and they were not selling to those who didn’t watch AI, they were selling to hardcore AI fans, who could have cared less about the music.

    Well I agree with that, so it’s not that I didn’t take it into consideration. My post was simply arguing against the idea that Idol produces instant pop staples, when in fact it has only done that twice. There were 2 pop staples, 1 country staple, 1 R&B staple, 1 HAC staple a handful of people with 1 big hit in various formats (country, pop, r&B), and some people who got no love anywhere. Only the people in the last category got dropped right away, most of the others at least got a second album.

    What I was trying to say is that if you are going to try to measure the new guys against something idols “always” do it would have to be album sales, because that is the only thing at least one idol per season “always” does. And even that doesn’t guarantee all that much if they all came from Christmas sales.

  213. It has been hard for idols, over all eight seasons, to be taken seriously by radio, which is why even the ones who have sold well have been dropped. The important point that your example fails to take into consideration is that the previous idols were not selling albums based on the music, how could they since they weren’t getting any significant airplay, and they were not selling to those who didn’t watch AI, they were selling to hardcore AI fans, who could have cared less about the music.

    Luckily for this crop, I think the material is stronger, more current, and more radio friendly than some other AI years. Kris and Adam have already gotten some of that positive radio feedback, and both of them have albums that contain at least a few more very viable radio hits. So hopefully things will keep moving in the right direction in that regard.

    Also, just a theory, but I wonder if America’s attitude is changing wrt AI, or if it really is about Adam and Kris themselves. That is, this year it seems fans are not as invested in these guys for the months after the show – unlike the Davids last year. Yet Adam built up a TON of excitement all year long on the tour. Was he still too polarizing to keep enough of those fans after the show? Was Kris too bland to really keep the interest through the fall? Or is this just the new way America watches AI – we’ll vote our hearts out through May, but then we’re moving on to the next thing.

  214. 13 ‘“ 17 females say there can’t be. There can only be cute auto-tuned boys like Justin Beiber. That kid released his album the same week as Kris. By the end of the year it will have more sales than Kris and Adam combined.

    And that is what is wrong with America. Sorry, Bieber fans but the guy sounds like a 10 yr old girl (though I guess not for much longer, hence the rush to get his next album out). Him, and the SuBo phenomenon, and the Taylor Swift thing. Yeah, I just don’t get it either. I mean I do, and I guess I’m ok with Adam not doing as well as them because he doesn’t play it safe. And safe usually tends to win in these kinds of contests.

    If Adam was safe, I’d have already lost interest in him. So maybe I should take my wild idol, be thankful for that, and hope that enough of the country can eventually discover that wild can be oh so much more satisfying than safe ;-)

  215. EVERY pop artist now on the radio is female, hip hop, or in a group. I don’t get that ‘“ who says we can’t have a mega talented, charismatic MALE pop singer.

    Cuz we like our little boxes.

    And oh my god, Justin Bieber. He is an abomination. I see the 13-17 demographic being thrown around here as his, but it hasn’t been THAT long since I fell in that demo and I can’t imagine that I would’ve liked him at all. I hope his fanbase is 9-12… that’s more understandable…

  216. 13 ‘“ 17 females say there can’t be. There can only be cute auto-tuned boys like Justin Beiber. That kid released his album the same week as Kris. By the end of the year it will have more sales than Kris and Adam combined.

    Sadly you are probably right. So only kids buy cd’s now. :(

    I just bought a really cool cd from” thenewno2″ band. I heard about it on NPR. There was an interview with George Harrison’s son who is the singer for the band. I loved the sound and bought it for my husband for Christmas. (It’s really good!!!!!!!)

    I also confess that I bought the Justin Beiber cd for my 9 year old daughter. For shame!! lol.

    It’s a complicated music world!

  217. I disagree that past Idols sold albums without significant airplay. Normally they have had singles charting well and added in a significant number of places well before the album drops. Usually the coronation singles have at least done moderately well, and then the first album single is intended to be charting by album drop. The singles have greatly contributed to album sales, IMO.

    Someone stated upthread that WWFM just came out last week. If I recall, it has been out 2-3 weeks now, counting when OHP premiered it.

  218. And oh my god, Justin Bieber. He is an abomination. I see the 13-17 demographic being thrown around here as his, but it hasn’t been THAT long since I fell in that demo and I can’t imagine that I would’ve liked him at all. Let’s hope his fanbase is 9-12′ ¦ that’s more understandable’ ¦

    LOL – yeah, based on the recent Washington Post review of his album (not good), I’m guessing his demographic is more like 5-12. The review considered his music VERY safe, and way too sacchriney. Teens are listening to hip hop, Gaga, BEPs, etc.

    Hmm, anyone thinking what I’m thinking? Bieber/Adam tour ;-) J/k

  219. And oh my god, Justin Bieber. He is an abomination. I see the 13-17 demographic being thrown around here as his, but it hasn’t been THAT long since I fell in that demo and I can’t imagine that I would’ve liked him at all. I hope his fanbase is 9-12′ ¦ that’s more understandable’ ¦

    I think BieberHellSpawn has a lot of tweeners, no doubt. But he also has that whole internet sensation thing going on, and that gives him a bit more of a cool factor. He’s like undiscovered talent made good, signed by Usher (and fought for by Timberlake) which makes it okay to like the little twerp if you are over the age of 14.

  220. I was listening to z100 (my new fave station because they just might play Adam), and a cute song came on. I thought it was a girl. So I started to think about are there any “pop” guys out there. So I asked the question to my kids and they said “Justin Beiber!!!! He’s singing!” And I was like omg, I thought it was a girl.

    However, Justin Beiber is a cute kid and totally age appropriate.

    But yeah, he will sell a ton of records…It does seem like there are more deserving artists.

  221. Could it be that for now America already has all of the idols that they need?

    People care about good music, not that someone was on a reality show. Radio stations don’t have a quota in terms of how many AI alums they have on their playlists, and most people don’t even watch the show, and have no clue who was or wasn’t on the show. If people connect with the music, they will buy it, but first they have to hear it, and radio stations aren’t going to seriously play a song just because someone was on American Idol. A very good example of this is the radio reception that Adam has gotten. For some reason, his fans, and it would seem even his label, thought that just being Adam Lambert would get him radio spins, but the fact is that most of the public doesn’t have a clue who he is, and could care less.

  222. I disagree that past Idols sold albums without significant airplay. Normally they have had singles charting well and added in a significant number of places well before the album drops. Usually the coronation singles have at least done moderately well, and then the first album single is intended to be charting by album drop. The singles have greatly contributed to album sales, IMO.

    This was most definitely true last year. Archie had Crush, which means there’s no way his album wasn’t bought by at least some people who didn’t just know him from AI. Cook had TOML predominantly. Both were very big and heard a lot leading up to the album.

    The last big album was Daughtry, and he released It’s Not Over, iirc, right around when the album dropped. INO became HUGE, which helped his album sales later on. His first week was very strong too, but I remember someone pointing out that back then, Daughtry was sorta the first example of someone not winning, yet potentially being way bigger than the winner. There were a lot of strong feelings about Daughtry getting kicked off, which prompted a lot more fan reaction to “stick it to AI/Taylor, etc” by eating up his album. This year, I really don’t think there was such an impetus from fans. Who knows, maybe if Danny had beat Adam – there would have been more of a “we’ll stick it to him” attitude ;-)

  223. Also, just a theory, but I wonder if America’s attitude is changing wrt AI, or if it really is about Adam and Kris themselves.

    I have been saying this since the end of last season, but it is the season 8 contestants. Danny will never be a big star. He just oozes arrogance, and I really don’t think his personality will go over too well in the country community, or his raspy voice. Allison was the best female of a very poor female pool, and on the show she may have seemed like a star but off it she comes across like a wannabe Miley or Pink. Adam is suffering from lack of musical identity, which I think will really hurt him in the long run. I know fans want a varied album because it is more interesting to them, but the biggest artists on AI have had a distinctive style and sound that makes their music instantly recognizable. Eclectic doesn’t work for a pop singer. Kris just doesn’t have the big voice that people expect from the AI winner, and he has the stain for many of an undeserving winner. I think AI still has the potential of creating another superstar, I just don’t think one will emerge from this group.

  224. Hmm, anyone thinking what I’m thinking? Bieber/Adam tour ;-) J/k

    Well I think my 9 and 14 year old daughters would go for the Adam tour. They both want his autograph before they die. lol

  225. Definitely an interesting post. A lot of this makes sense to me.

    I have been saying this since the end of last season, but it is the season 8 contestants. Danny will never be a big star. He just oozes arrogance, and I really don’t think his personality will go over too well in the country community, or his raspy voice. Allison was the best female of a very poor female pool, and on the show she may have seemed like a star but off it she comes across like a wannabe Miley or Pink. Adam is suffering from lack of musical identity, which I think will really hurt him in the long run. I know fans want a varied album because it is more interesting to them, but the biggest artists on AI have had a distinctive style and sound that makes their music instantly recognizable. Eclectic doesn’t work for a pop singer. Kris just doesn’t have the big voice that people expect from the AI winner, and he has the stain for many of an undeserving winner. I think AI still ha the potential of creating another superstar, I just don’t think one will emerge from this group.

  226. People care about good music, not that someone was on a reality show.

    Very true, and I agree with your post (wow, babybelle, I usually completely disagree with your posts, but not so tonight – you’re on a roll with me ;-) )

    The story always goes that the first week(s) are predominantly the AI fans, and it’s that strength that isn’t as evident this year (though it was pretty big for Adam – and I’d say it was even better considering how polarizing he is).

    So that initial boost of sales was lacking. But, of course, in the long run, it’s reaching fans outside of the bubble that really matters. Just selling big in the first week, then selling nothing, is never going to work in the long run (e.g. Taylor, who struggled to reach fans outside of the AI base, vs. Daughtry, who was able to).

  227. I disagree that past Idols sold albums without significant airplay. Normally they have had singles charting well and added in a significant number of places well before the album drops. Usually the coronation singles have at least done moderately well, and then the first album single is intended to be charting by album drop. The singles have greatly contributed to album sales, IMO.

    Someone stated upthread that WWFM just came out last week. If I recall, it has been out 2-3 weeks now, counting when OHP premiered it.

    In the early days of AI, only the coronation songs were released before the albums came out, I believe it was either Carrie or Jordin who was the first to release a single before their album was released. And as we know, no coronation song, besides Kelly and David Cook’s have done well on radio. Despite not having singles out, and in David Cook’s case, not having a single that had reached many markets, these people all sold hundreds of thousands of cds during their first week of release. That’s just not normal for new artists, their sales didn’t match up with the amount of airplay they were getting, and in Taylor Hicks’ case, he wasn’t even getting the usual AC spins for his coronation song, so how do we explain the huge numbers, if it’s not a case of the hardcore fans buying the albums just because these people were on AI? And, how can we explain the fact that for pretty much everyone of them, their sales fell harder than usual after the first week or two?

  228. Yeah, Cook and Archuleta have gotten significant amount of airplay with Archuleta’s ‘Crush’  and Cooks ‘TOML’  but I agree neither of them recieved as much as Jordin’s singles did for ‘Tattoo’  ‘One Step At A Time’  ‘Battlefield’  and especially ‘No Air.’ 

    So with a singles standpoint Jordin is the last successful Idol who won. But album standout Cook outsold her.

    This comment got me thinking. How much radio play did Jordin and David Cook actually get. Here’s what I found at Mediabase.

    Jordin Sparks
    “Battlefield” – Spins of 138,104 with AI of 773.58 million
    “One Step..”- Spins of 195,125 with AI of 1.16 billion
    “Tattoo” – Spins of 287,822 with AI of 1.70 billion
    “No Air” with Chris B.” – spins of 387,083 with AI of 2.52 billion

    David Cook
    “Time of My Life” – Spins of 201,517 with AI of 1.21 billion
    “Light On” – Spins of 153,458 with AI of 722.70 million
    “Come Back To Me” Spins of 86,418 with AI of 475.2 million

    So Jordin’s “Tattoo” and “No Air” (with the huge help of Chris Brown) are monsters and way out in front in comparison to Cook’s songs in regards to airplay. But they’ve had an extra year to rack up that airplay. But “Time of My Life” and “Light On” are no slouches in the airplay department and stack up quite well against “One Step..”.

    Cook’s TOML and LO have also gone platinum in sales. So I would have to disagree that Jordin has, from a singles standpoint, been the last successful Idol who won. I have a hard time looking at Cook’s numbers and say that he isn’t. I think they’ve both been very successful, and that Adam & Kris would be thrilled to have either one of their numbers.

  229. Adam is suffering from lack of musical identity, which I think will really hurt him in the long run. I know fans want a varied album because it is more interesting to them, but the biggest artists on AI have had a distinctive style and sound that makes their music instantly recognizable

    Hmm, I must admit – I still find myself conflicted over this sentiment. Part of me thinks it’s a selfish war within me, that I really love Adam for his variety, for his multiple personas, his ability to play so many roles as a singer and performer. Imo that is the “not safe” part of him that I mentioned earlier. He can be unpredictable, a little scary even, wild, spontaneous, then a perfect angel. That keeps me interested, it makes some people hate him, others love him. The more people call him “controversial” the more I tend to just smile a little bit, because I really love that side of him.

    However, going back to who has been the most successful off of AI, Daughtry, Carrie, Kelly – they were all “safe”, they fit a mold, they played by those rules, they created albums that were pretty much what you’d expect an album of their genre to sound like. However, you also couldn’t pay me listen all the way through to some of them.

    So, who knows? Maybe he needs more focus. I go back to Lady Gaga all the time with him – I feel she is a genuinely daring artist who plays with pretty set rules – so there is order yet chaos to her art. He needs to find that balance too. I feel that he will, that he has a strong artistic impulse and vision, and that that focus will come with time.

    ETA: But I will also say that, in terms of his album being pretty eclectic, it also clearly has a few songs that essentially follow the mold of being current pop songs, yet with borrowed ’70s and ’80s elements. That was always his vision and plan, and tbh, I think it’s a really cool concept – to blend the new with the old, to create something that doesn’t just sound COMPLETELY like another Britney track. In that sense I do think he has a very set vision.

  230. A 74% drop for sales for Adam’s album is not good even coming off Black Friday week. I am not sure what will happen from here on out but so far Adam’s sales are far from stellar. His songs and his album are dropping on itunes. He has several TV shows coming up we shall see if he gets a bump from those. Adam has not lived up to the hype. Will he in the future? I don’t know and can’t predict. We shall see.

  231. And oh my god, Justin Bieber. He is an abomination. I see the 13-17 demographic being thrown around here as his, but it hasn’t been THAT long since I fell in that demo and I can’t imagine that I would’ve liked him at all. Let’s hope his fanbase is 9-12′ ¦ that’s more understandable’ ¦

    Mediabase’s market research is all online, and with the way US law is about pre-teens and website registrations, they can’t survey below 13. I’m sure the majority of their sampling that is hooked on Beiber is at the lower end of the age range.

  232. A 74% drop for sales for Adam’s album is not good even coming off Black Friday week. I am not sure what will happen from here on out but so far Adam’s sales are far from stellar. His songs and his album are dropping on itunes. He has several TV shows coming up we shall see if he gets a bump from those. Adam has not lived up to the hype. Will he in the future? I don’t know and can’t predict. We shall see.

    Hmm, I think you missed the last page where we already dropped all three of them from their labels.

  233. wordnerdarchie,

    Thanks for the numbers! Yes, they have both been extremely successful I will agree.

    I think I’m just upset because I wanted Kris, Adam and Allison to do so much better.

    I predicted after Idol Kris would sell around 250,000 and Adam 400,000. Where as Allison around 90,000. I mean why can songs like “I’m Yours” sell over 4 or 5 million singles I think, yet “LLWD” is barely at 200,000. I guess it’s all about airplay and how much “I’m Yours” got. I just thought all three would do much better when crap like “Replay” and Justin Bieber songs are doing well. No offense to those who like those songs. Just my opinion.

  234. Sadly you are probably right. So only kids buy cd’s now.

    Well, judging from the above numbers, kids and anyone over 60. So the cd buying public is now roughly:

    9-12
    60+

    Excellent.

  235. Just a point of clarification, babybelle. You seem to be saying that a good sign for Kris relative to Cook is that Kris is getting good reception from radio for his first album single. As a point of fact, the reception that Kris is getting is similar to what Light On—just a bit weaker in terms of spins and chart position on both HAC and CHR.

    Last year, on this same date, having been released two days later in the year, Light On was at #11 on HAC. LLWD is at #19 on HAC today. Similarly, on this same date last year, Light On was at #26 on CHR. LLWD is at #32 on CHR today.

    Don’t get me wrong. I think that the fact that Kris got any airplay for NoBo was a good sign for him that radio was open to him, plus the play for Heartless that he got over the summer, and his airplay for LLWD is going fine. But if you’re going to say that Cook’s airplay was weak, then you’re going to have to say that the airplay for each of these AI8’ers is weak. Because by this time last year, he’d had Magic Rainbow peak at #28 on CHR, at #7 on HAC, and #1 on AC, and he’d had LO hitting #26 on CHR (on the way to #20) and #11 on HAC (on the way to #4).

  236. Because what you need to understand is that without the sales to justify continuing to push them, a label quite often WILL pull the plug on future singles. Somebody mentioned Jordin Sparks and ‘Battlefield’ . Another top ten hit for Jordin, so you would think Jive would have the second one ready in the chamber and just waiting there, right? Well, you’d be wrong. Because nobody bought her sophomore album, so they shut it down.

    Or take David Cook. Platinum album and two platinum singles. His second single flopped in one format only, and RCA promptly up and closed up shop on his record’ ¦.

    Anyone knows the total sale number of Jordin’s sophomore albums so far?

  237. Or take David Cook. Platinum album and two platinum singles. His second single flopped in one format only, and RCA promptly up and closed up shop on his record’ ¦.

    It becomes an issue of whether the cost of pushing that next single will benefit both the album and single enough to justify it. No set formula for each artist, but that’s the way each label would look at a decision like that.

  238. Or take David Cook. Platinum album and two platinum singles. His second single flopped in one format only, and RCA promptly up and closed up shop on his record’ ¦.

    I’m thinking that had more to do with his album sales dipping than the single flopping on pop. Lots of other acts still get pushed if they are still generating revenue someplace other than pop.

  239. Adam is suffering from lack of musical identity, which I think will really hurt him in the long run….Eclectic doesn’t work for a pop singer.

    He may not be doing well yet, but I think it will happen. It needs time. People I know, know him because I talk about him, they don’t know him from other sources. And if eclectic is something that doesn’t happen often – I’m not much of a music follower myself, just an Adam follower – then that too will need some time for people to get used to.

  240. Adam sold more than Gaga and Rihanna last week. This week Rihanna and one of Gaga’s albums were in line with the drop that FYE had. The week before John Mayer dropped 74% and that was Black Friday week. If Adam is doomed, what does that say for Rihanna and John Mayer?

    Adam has sold 248K in two weeks! He is the runner-up and shouldn’t be compared to Cook or Jordin. He should be compared to Blake and Archie.

    Anyway you slice it- It’s better to have a 75% drop the second week and end up with 248K, then to have a 60% drop and end up with 112K. 60% of 80,000 is less than 75% of 198,000.

  241. He may not be doing well yet, but I think it will happen. It needs time. People I know, know him because I talk about him, they don’t know him from other sources. And if eclectic is something that doesn’t happen often ‘“ I’m not much of a music follower myself, just an Adam follower ‘“ then that too will need some time for people to get used to.

    To me this pinpoints Adam’s issue. He is not showing a musical identity and he is a little late out of the gate with getting airplay on a single compared to his album dropping. I think he has a hard road ahead of him because of the poor choice of first single with FYE. Had WWFM been out there from the beginning things might look differnt but it does seem to me that he is playing catch-up in terms of radio to support his album going forward.

  242. Lots of late night thoughts here, I won’t mind if you go tl;dr on me. :)

    I don’t understand all this worry about album sales. I get that there isn’t much other data out there to look at currently. But we’ve already established that music sales are down drastically and continuing to tumble at an alarming rate. The labels all know this. Which means one of two things to me. (1) They signed the S8 idols with the idea of making a quick buck off of them and then dumping them if they didn’t magically strike a chord that translated into huge sales or (2) They saw other means of making money beyond album sales and are going for long term investment. And while I saw someone post here that the labels only make money on album sales, I feel that needs to be challenged. We don’t know what contracts the idols signed. And I find it hard to believe that RCA or Jive wouldn’t have something in the contract to give them a percentage of other income that is generated as a result of the album they financed and/or the promotion of it and the artist that they also financed.

    Based on the names on Adam’s album, the promotion and magazine spreads, I feel pretty safe in assuming that he falls into the second camp and, unless all money streams run surprising dry, I’ll expect them to give him at least a year to grow income streams. Kris and Allison I’m more concerned about but it’s still way too early to tell yet with them. The relatively low album sales given their time on AI means they’ll have less time to demonstrate they can generate other income. I believe their ability to sell concert tickets and merchandise will be key to their continued relationship with their label.

    Given the above scenario, you could argue that radio play, not album sales, is the best measure we have for determining future income for these kids (and IMO it is the best measure we have worth discussing).

    The problem with that is, while we can actually measure radio play, it’s seems widely agreed here that radio is not the sole source of music anymore and in fact is rarely listened to by the the demographics that steal the music and whose money you want to get from merchandise, etc. Even I, who still buys my music, have not bought based on radio play. All of my non-idol purchases over the last couple of years were either nostalgia purchases or music that was used in fanvids or fanfic playlists. Heck I even bought Nickelback’s Rockstar because I adored Chayiana’s Stargate Atlantis vid “Be a Rockstar” and now chuckle every time I hear the song. Each month that goes by radio has less and less meaning. That’s not to say that there is no relevance between radio play and sales, because there obviously is when you look at top iTunes downloads compared to radio play. . Just that it’s a very imperfect measurement of both listening audience and future revenue streams and is getting less perfect all the time.

    So, what we need is another way to measure the listening audience besides radio play. Is there one? Is someone currently developing one? Anyone? Bueller?

  243. @anovich – Change is slow. He comes with something different, it’s going to take time. I guess the big question is how much time is needed, and how much time he will be given by his label. WWFM wasn’t out that long after FYE, so that shouldn’t be a major issue. IMO, which, I admit, does not stem from experience with the music world.

  244. I think he has a hard road ahead of him because of the poor choice of first single with FYE. Had WWFM been out there from the beginning things might look differnt but it does seem to me that he is playing catch-up in terms of radio to support his album going forward.

    Okay, here’s a question. WWFM has been added to a lot of stations lately and I feel pretty confident that it will eventually shoot up the airplay charts. The danger, of course, lies in the timing. In other words, what if WWFM gets added but not played much in the next few very important shopping weeks, such that the actual boost in airplay happens in the doldrums of January when not many albums are sold. What is the actual effect of the “freeze” on the airplay charts for up and coming CHR and in HAC songs like WWFM? [I realize, of course, that Adam’s TV appearances can also spread the word about the single and, hopefully, spur album sales.]

  245. I think he has a hard road ahead of him because of the poor choice of first single with FYE. Had WWFM been out there from the beginning things might look differnt but it does seem to me that he is playing catch-up in terms of radio to support his album going forward.

    I agree he’s playing catch-up and unfortunately he choose some bad weeks to get behind, because the weeks before xmas are usually good ones for sales for Idols, but I doubt that Adam will see that benefit, and then it’s into the low low sales of January, so even if WWFM does begin to pick up enough spins and exposure, that’s probably not going to translate to a lot of album sales. Not with how many traditionally sell at that time of year.

    Ideally all of his TV performances would be building on existing good buzz and ideally at least SOME radio presence, but there was none before the AMAs, and afterwards none for FYE and the pushing of WWFM began like a day before the AMAs or something. And thus far, maybe due to poisoning the well with his AMA crap, his TV performances doing WWFM haven’t seemed to help it’s iTunes sales yet. Though on that at least I would caution that it took LLWD a while to build up sales from airplay. But again, Kris’s started going on TV corresponded to it having some decent airplay already. Plus he didn’t poison his well and create more problems for himself in selling his actual music.

    So yeah, a lot, I mean a LOT is riding on WWFM and we’ll see. I maintain, it’s going to be ROUGH for Adam, if he can even do it. It’s going to be climbing out a deep, deep hole he put himself into.

  246. Just a point of clarification, babybelle. You seem to be saying that a good sign for Kris relative to Cook is that Kris is getting good reception from radio for his first album single. As a point of fact, the reception that Kris is getting is similar to what Light On’”just a bit weaker in terms of spins and chart position on both HAC and CHR.

    You misunderstood me, I never said this, and I’m sorry if it was implied. I know that LO and LLWD have about the same rankings, and they had the same rankings at the time that the albums were released, even though the rankings don’t tell us anything about Audience Impressions and spin totals, but there’s probably not a big difference. I am saying that regardless if it’s Cook, Kris, or anyone else who went through AI, their debut sales numbers don’t match up with the amount of airplay that their singles received, which indicates that the AI boost is in effect.

    In Kris case, he didn’t have as big of a boost as others, and I think that the current sales of LLWD are a good sign as well as the increase in airplay, both indicate that the song has connected with those beyond the hardcore AI fans.

    As far as Adam’s album not having a clear identity, I doubt that has anything to do with Adam being daring or eclectic, and has more to do with half the album being songs that Adam wanted to do, and the other half being songs that RCA wanted, because they didn’t think the songs that Adam likes will be commercially viable.

  247. I agree he’s playing catch-up and unfortunately he choose some bad weeks to get behind, because the weeks before xmas are usually good ones for sales for Idols,

    Well, technically, he’s not behind yet. LOL. He sold relatively well his week, right in there with the top guys. His drop this week is right around what is expected. So while he’s not the selling-est idol that ever sold at the moment, he’s not doing horribly.

    His single is “behind” on radio in the sense that is not charting on Top 40 and the album is already out, but its actually doing fine for a song released when it was. And I would argue that Idol Christmas sales are rarely about radio anyway, its about the idol audience coming back to seal the deal. Of course having some hits will help you sell even more, but most idols have done fine during the holidays without a hit on the radio at the time. So Adam should be fine if he didn’t piss off his idol fanbase. Not as well as he would have done if he had a song in the top 20, but still well enough.

    Assuming Adam has not alienated enough Idol fans to tank Christmas sales, he won’t start having to pay the piper until January/Feburary. That’s what I would be bracing for, honestly.

  248. So yeah, a lot, I mean a LOT is riding on WWFM and we’ll see. I maintain, it’s going to be ROUGH for Adam, if he can even do it. It’s going to be climbing out a deep, deep hole he put himself into.

    See, I don’t agree with this. To me there is no hole to dig out of. Given the type of artist they are positioning him to be, the people that don’t buy because of the AMA’s aren’t his audience anyway. So, no hole from that. Fewer initial sales? Possibly. But better to sacrifice a few sales to some idol fans now and position himself in the market.

    While he has a slow start on getting the music in the top 40 on radio relative to the album release date, he has much more name recognition outside of the idol bubble than he did before so people are more likely to remember his name when they hear the music. This is a huge plus. If people like his music okay but love a great show, then even if they steal his songs, they’ll still be more likely to go to concert than otherwise. (I plan to go see Lady Gaga in concert if I can because, even though I haven’t bought her album, I know she’ll put on a great show.)

    Also, for those that commented on the lack of musical identity on Adam’s album. This is also a huge plus given the environment of declining album sales. Core fans buy albums. An eclectic album will allow for more singles to different markets, will allow for a greater variety of ring tones (huge money) and will give a wild ride in the concert of a performance artist (major win). Yes, it isn’t the traditional way things have been done. But we’ve already established that tradition is no longer working. A risk? Yes. But a calculated one. And one that could reap incredible rewards.

  249. Adam has sold 248K in two weeks! He is the runner-up and shouldn’t be compared to Cook or Jordin. He should be compared to Blake and Archie.

    Anyway you slice it- It’s better to have a 75% drop the second week and end up with 248K, then to have a 60% drop and end up with 112K. 60% of 80,000 is less than 75% of 198,000

    How about not comparing him to anyone, since that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Instead, let’s look at what he is doing, and the situation he is currently in. Nothing that Kris, Jordin, or anyone else is doing or has done will determine whether what Adam is doing is successful or a failure. It’s a lot more important that Adam is currently lacking a radio presence than how many cds Kris has sold. At least in Kris’ the groundwork has been laid in terms of radio to help him sell more records via his singles being played, and that’s not something that will help or hurt Adam.

  250. Nothing that Kris, Jordin, or anyone else is doing or has done will determine whether what Adam is doing is successful or a failure.

    Yet, the comparisons are there.

    It’s a lot more important that Adam is currently lacking a radio presence than how many cds Kris has sold.

    I don’t know. That’s a toss up. If you have a moderately successful single, but it doesn’t translate to album sales-how good is that? (I don’t know what will happen with LLWD, but right now it isn’t a top 10 hit. It may make it there or it may slide out of the top 40.) No one has a crystal ball.

    WWFM has been out about 3 weeks. It’s getting an encouraging number of adds and good spins. Adam is in the middle of tv appearances and promo for his single. If I remember correctly, LLWD was in bad shape at 3 weeks after the release. It does take time.

  251. It’s going to be climbing out a deep, deep hole he put himself into.

    A deep, deep hole with sales of 248K in two weeks? I’m thinking there are lots of established artists and idols (both past and present) who would love to be in this deep, deep hole.

  252. Where can we get the international sales info for all Idols? (Aside from the top 5 mentioned the other day?)

  253. Assuming Adam has not alienated enough Idol fans to tank Christmas sales, he won’t start having to pay the piper until January/Feburary. That’s what I would be bracing for, honestly.

    Well we’ll see about that one. I would assume that any Idol fan who was inclined to buy Adam’s album, probably did so in the first two weeks. Not seeing as how the Idol fanbase will be buying so much more during xmas, but I’ll defer to the experts on that.

    While he has a slow start on getting the music in the top 40 on radio relative to the album release date, he has much more name recognition outside of the idol bubble than he did before so people are more likely to remember his name when they hear the music. This is a huge plus. If people like his music okay but love a great show, then even if they steal his songs, they’ll still be more likely to go to concert than otherwise

    But his name recognition outside the bubble is mostly negative, I would argue. As for putting on a great show? Again, where would people get that idea of Adam outside the bubble, or heck, even inside the bubble at this point? People were introduced to Adam outside the AI bubble through AMAs and/or all the images/news afterwards in the fallout, and the buzz, the images, were not good. The vocals were a hot mess and the visuals were not interesting, weird or unusual, the way that GaGa is, or even genuinely sexy or edgy. Not for the vast majority of people, I would argue. So this idea that Adam has been branded as an edgy performance artist, or even as someone with a good voice outside of the bubble, isn’t true at this point. Or so is what I’ve observed and therefore my contention.

    Not the least of which is that he’s just been part of drama after drama, cancellations, the Chris Brown/GMA stuff, the blurred kiss on CBS, more controversy from there, more ABC cancellations, etc., and that’s what too many people outside the bubble know of Adam now. And again, not in a good, on his side way, but thinking he’s a jerk, egotist, opportunstic weasel, whatever.

    So my points being that Adam has a negative image he has to work against now, and his name recognition isn’t a good one, either music or putting on a show wise.

    So he’ll need radio play and good images associated with his music, for a while to prove otherwise. I know he’s talented enough to do it, I just hope he’s given the chances to show his music and it sticks.

  254. But his name recognition outside the bubble is mostly negative, I would argue. As for putting on a great show? Again, where would people get that idea of Adam outside the bubble, or heck, even inside the bubble at this point? People were introduced to Adam outside the AI bubble through AMAs and/or all the images/news afterwards in the fallout, and the buzz, the images, were not good.

    Totally disagree. It was only a bad impression to those that were offended. Those people are not going to be his fan base. The late night talk show hosts joked about it and made fun of ABC’s fearful ways. A roll of the eyes over the drama is the way the most people who will be in his fan base reacted. And maybe they sought it out on youtube. And, hey, it looked like a good show. What fun. Even better they get to laugh in admiration at the hornets nest he stirred up. Yeah, his vocals weren’t up to par, but on the versions I’ve seen on the web, they don’t sound awful. And guess what? People that go to see a show, be it Gaga, P!ink or Britney, aren’t expecting live performances to have immaculate vocals….except Brittney’s as hers are lip synced.

  255. I’ll be the first to admit, that I don’t really get the relationship between iTunes sales, CD sales and overall success. After looking at Time Magazines Top 10 albums, I have to admit, I hadn’t even heard of some of those artists and I sure haven’t seen them at the top of iTunes or the overall Billboard Top 200. Isn’t the general wisdom these days that no one makes money off album sales anymore (once you factor in the cost of the recording, video and promotion) but rather off the tours?

    The next question then is, are there really succesful touring acts that don’t have Gold or Platinum type sales?

    Clearly, Adam had the most publicity of all the AI8 idols before the CDs dropped (including several magazine covers) and personally, I think if he had knocked viewers socks off at the AMAs with his vocals and mesmerizing performance skills (exactly the things that made him such a darling with fans and media), he’s be looking at much stronger sales figures right now.

    Being an Adam fan, I had reminded my friends and family to watch the AMAs for his big debut, hoping it would entice them to buy his CD. These people are not AI watchers or Adam fans, and they are also not in the least conservative or homophobic BUT they all thought the “performance was terrible and the song sucked”. No one found it offensive – they just didn’t think it was very good. Not one of them bothered listening to anything else on the CD, based on what they heard that night, and I ended up sending them links to Broken Open and Fever to tr yand persuade them that they shouldn’t base their opinions on the one performace. Anyway, multiply that by millions of other viewers who were also underwhelmed or, worse, angry, and offended, and I think he did himself some damage.

    However, music is Adam’s career choice and if nothing else, the exposure will ensure he can continue to follow his chosen profession. I’m sure his live shows will be off the hook and I’ll be buying tickets for sure!

    Last comment – if what is currently at the top of charts and iTunes is supposed to be good music then I don’t know what’s good anymore. Most of the tunes are generic pap thats Autotuned using mediocre voices and I think what Adam has on his album is as good or better than 99% of it.

  256. Some very interesting and thoughtful posts in this thread. Just three thoughts to add:

    1. Radio airplay does not earn any incremental money for the label or the recording artist — and the promotion needed to get airplay is a major expense. It is only a worthwhile expenditure if it will help sell additional album units OR drive concert ticket sales.

    2. Most of the forecasters and analysts in the music industry believe that the era of people purchasing music is ending. Two indications that the industry is changing are tonight’s launch of VEVO and Apple’s recent purchase of Lala.

    Across the industry, music companies and their technology partners are increasingly banking on the idea that fans are prepared to either pay for access to a site or will tolerate targeted advertising in exchange for their favorite songs.

    Owning music, either in a physical format or even as a digital file, is also no longer as important as it once was, the thinking goes.

    One indication of this came last week when Apple Inc’s iTunes Music Store bought Lala, a digital music service that streams songs on a variety of sites.

    Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B75L420091209?type=musicNews

    3. Sony/RCA appear to be thrilled with Adam

    Tom Corson, EVP GM of RCA Music Group and Barry Weiss, Chairman and CEO RCA/Jive, would not have done a press op with Adam if they had any issue with him.

    The VEVO launch is the most significant new initiative that Sony Music Entertainment is involved in. At tonight’s launch party they featured FYE music video and Adam performed WWFM. The two major labels who are equity partners in VEVO each picked one performer. Sony picked – Adam Lambert. Universal picked – Lady Gaga. Look at VEVO, Adam is all over the place — the first two videos on page 1, FYE is #8 on the top video list. is Sony wasn’t behind Adam, he would not have been so connected to VEVO

    Assuming Adam has not alienated enough Idol fans to tank Christmas sales, he won’t start having to pay the piper until January/Feburary. That’s what I would be bracing for, honestly.

    I actually believe that a lot of Adams fans were outside of the Idol bubble since the beginning. And anyone who was offended by Adam’s AMA performance is probably not going to be an Adam fan down the road, because I doubt there will ever be another Adam performance like the AMA’s, I am certain that he will continue to push boundaries and offend the same people in the future.

    As far a “paying the piper” in January or February, I am confident that FYE will continue to sell because it is a good album and it is very commercial.

    But his name recognition outside the bubble is mostly negative, I would argue. As for putting on a great show? Again, where would people get that idea of Adam outside the bubble, or heck, even inside the bubble at this point? People were introduced to Adam outside the AI bubble through AMAs and/or all the images/news afterwards in the fallout, and the buzz, the images, were not good.

    Is there any information that Adam’s name recognition is negative? I have seen absolutely no data either way. The AMA performance is too recent for any of the syndicated celebrity reseach info to include it.

    But I do know that it takes a lot to make a negative impression — usuallly more than one event. And that even artists who are very controversial and have generally negative perceptions can sell a lot of records. [Eminem, Madonna, MJ for example].

    The vast majority of post-AMA press focused on the ABC dispute and the discussion of what is obscene/indecent on TV, very and the vast majority of the press has been positive toward Adam.

    Regarding Adam performances — since the AMA’s — Letterman, CBS Early Show, Ellen.

    Upcoming performances – The View 4.4 million, Conan 2.8 million, Leno 5.5 million, Chelsey Lately, SYTYCD Finale 10+ Million. TBA NYE event

    Plus Adam’s FYE music video and WWFM performances have been shown in whole or part on Access Hollywood, ET, LOGO, VH1, MuchMusic, and several other US TV shows.

    In total, that is a whole lot of audience exposures to Adam performing.

  257. These people are not AI watchers or Adam fans, and they are also not in the least conservative or homophobic BUT they all thought the ‘performance was terrible and the song sucked’ . No one found it offensive ‘“ they just didn’t think it was very good. Not one of them bothered listening to anything else on the CD, based on what they heard that night, and I ended up sending them links to Broken Open and Fever to tr yand persuade them that they shouldn’t base their opinions on the one performace. Anyway, multiply that by millions of other viewers who were also underwhelmed or, worse, angry, and offended, and I think he did himself some damage.

    Well add people who while not being the least homophobic, were offended or at least turned off by the performance, and that’s been my experience completely. Oh and add all the people seeing just images on the news, or entertainment shows and saying lots of negative things about it. Oh and also that Adam was “arrogant,” and a jerk after the show interview and even on the CBS Early Show. Which sads, because I thought he did mostly okay on that latter one, though not great. I cringed a few times. I wish Ellen Adam had showed up.

    So this idea that Adam only hurt himself with people who were inclined not to like him? Yeah, no. I think he did himself some real damage, how much? Who knows at this point. Will he be able to make up for it? We’ll see. I sincerely hope so. I would be wicked pissed if it wasn’t so.

    Harder, steeper path, and unnecessarily so, but not impossible.

  258. Upcoming performances ‘“ The View 4.4 million, Conan 2.8 million, Leno 5.5 million, Chelsey Lately, SYTYCD Finale 10+ Million. TBA NYE event
    Plus Adam’s FYE music video and WWFM performances have been shown in whole or part on Access Hollywood, ET, LOGO, VH1, MuchMusic, and several other US TV shows.
    In total, that is a whole lot of audience exposures to Adam performing.

    To date, Adam has performed WWFM in the following shows:

    Ellen Show ‘“ average of 3.0 million viewers
    Early Show ‘“ average of 3.0 million viewers
    Letterman ‘“ average of 3.0 million viewers

    After each of those performances, WWFM did not move up the iTunes rankings significantly. While these performances may have helped increase sales a little, it is still radio play which exposes a single to a wider audience. A good example of this would be Orianthi’s single, which did poorly in sales until her single started seeing significant spin increases in the past couple of weeks. She didn’t have as many tv appearances as Adam. Now she’s close to top 50 in iTunes. Heck, even LLWD was languishing in the 120s-130s on iTunes for a few weeks after it was first released to radio, but it slowly crept its way back up the chart.

    BTW, SYTYCD has an average of 5-6Million viewers this season. I doubt the finale would command an audience of above 12Million.

  259. Non-Idol watcher here who became a fan of Adam after the S8 finale.

    Just my two cents, Adam’s popularity in my country (Malaysia) was pretty much stagnant after the season was over, and it was his AMA performance that put the spotlight on him again. His name was in the papers 4 times that week in TheStar national paper whether in a caption or article and that *greatly* helped his visibility.

    It is actually similar to how I found out about him. I learned of Adam through the same paper in an entertainment section blurb about his Rolling Stones cover.

    Galaxie magazine had him on the cover for their December issue. FYE is played on a consistent basis on a major radio station now and although WWFM hasn’t been premiered here yet, I don’t think it’s far behind.

    The AMA performance was flawed but the only audience it could have harmed was his existing one. And many people didn’t know who he was before it. I believe that Adam’s fame will stem from his live performances, much like Beyonce started out. His album sales would only increase from there on. And from what I’ve read it seems artists are moving towards generating revenue from their live tours.

    All I have to do is look at how Lady Gaga started out and where she is today. They share similarities but Adam is like a firecracker in comparison. People like Rob Marshall are interested in working with him regardless of the AMAs, and the majority of the press writes about him in a positive light. He doesn’t lack opportunities at all. If Adam’s management is fully committed, he has a strong work ethic and manages to figure out a proper balance for his image, he can and will be a star.

  260. All I have to do is look at how Lady Gaga started out and where she is today. They share similarities but Adam is like a firecracker in comparison. People like Rob Marshall are interested in working with him regardless of the AMAs, and the majority of the press writes about him in a positive light. He doesn’t lack opportunities at all. If Adam’s management is fully committed, he has a strong work ethic and manages to figure out a proper balance for his image, he can and will be a star.

    Lady Gaga rose to the spotlight not only because of her OTT performances or her exposure in the media. She had a hit single in Just Dance, and that single was really huge. Then she followed it up with more hit singles. The media coverage really started picking up once her success became too hard to ignore. And she had more freedom to experiment with her performances and her image because she had the singles and sales to back up her “crazy”.

    Adam’s case is somewhat reversed. The media firestorm started even way before he had any hit records or even before he proved he could sell a lot of records.

  261. Lady Gaga rose to the spotlight not only because of her OTT performances or her exposure in the media. She had a hit single in Just Dance, and that single was really huge. Then she followed it up with more hit singles. The media coverage really started picking up once her success became too hard to ignore. And she had more freedom to experiment with her performances and her image because she had the singles and sales to back up her ‘crazy’ .

    Adam’s case is somewhat reversed. The media firestorm started even way before he had any hit records or even before he proved he could sell a lot of records.

    He has a long way to go, I agree. He’s basically starting off where she was a year ago but from a much bigger platform and with a lot to prove. Consider me one of those who thinks that what happened at the AMAs was genius, contrived or serendipitous. What he needed after the AI tour was massive exposure, for him and his album, and he got that in spades after the AMAs. The kind of publicity he got from those 5 minutes can’t be bought. He well and truly kicked his AI image to the curb there. And I respect him for that performance, even if I didn’t like parts of it.

  262. I think he has a hard road ahead of him because of the poor choice of first single with FYE.

    Don’t be so quick to discount FYE. The video is in power rotation on MTV and is being shown on VH1 Jump Start. It could make the Top 20 countdown this week. Vevo is apparently up and running and FYE is #8 on the main page. Even if the radio stations are playing WWFM instead of FYE, it doesn’t mean that FYE can’t draw in fans with the video. Any way you look at it, it’s great exposure for Adam.

  263. It’s going to be climbing out a deep, deep hole he put himself into.

    If there’s a hole, I don’t think it’s that deep.

    Given the type of artist they are positioning him to be, the people that don’t buy because of the AMA’s aren’t his audience anyway.

    I disagree. It’s easy to dismiss people as “not his audience anyway” but that’s not always true. I, for instance, was going to buy his cd, I honestly was, until that performance (and the way he acted in the days following) made me kind of dislike him. I was on the fence about him, but I enjoyed him on AI and was going to buy his cd, out of curiosity and also to support him. I doubt I’m the only one who was a potential fan who fell on the other side of the fence after that.

    I don’t think it’s useful to imply that he doesn’t need anyone except for his hardcore true-blue fans. It wouldn’t hurt him to win over those on the fence. It’s like, does he want to be someone like Marilyn Manson who has his fans but isn’t going to appeal to a lot of the mainstream? That’s fine but it’s a choice. However don’t discount that some people are in the gray area when it comes to Adam and are not haters or lovers, but somewhere in between, and the things he does sways them to buy or not buy, like or not like.

  264. To add: The AMA performance could have been amazing without being offensive to many. It was a mistake and a wasted opportunity that he has had to rectify. He just made some artistic mistakes with it. He crossed a line that wasn’t necessary. He could have been amazing and still not crossed that line, without sacrificing any of his artistic integrity. I understand this is new to him and he is learning. I like the humility he’s been showing. However to dismiss those who were offended as unimportant and unnecessary, as I see here often, isn’t the right way to go, imo. He didn’t have to lose us, he didn’t have to go where he went. If he wants to be just a shock performer, that’s fine, it’s up to him, but it will limit his audience. He’s going to be successful, either way, I have no doubt of that.

  265. Is there any information that Adam’s name recognition is negative? I have seen absolutely no data either way. The AMA performance is too recent for any of the syndicated celebrity reseach info to include it.

    But I do know that it takes a lot to make a negative impression ‘” usuallly more than one event. And that even artists who are very controversial can sell a lot of records. [Eminem, Madonna, MJ for example].

    Exactly! Most the people I know (family and relatives) didn’t even watch the AMAs.The people who did or have heard about it didn’t care about the controversy. They think it’s just another “Madonna kiss” thing. They are also mildly interested to see how it plays out since it was a guy on guy kiss.
    I think people may be over estimating the negative impact of controversy on a music awards show. Either way-it’s all opinions on what we think the performance may or may not have done.

    Consider me one of those who thinks that what happened at the AMAs was genius, contrived or serendipitous. What he needed after the AI tour was massive exposure, for him and his album, and he got that in spades after the AMAs. The kind of publicity he got from those 5 minutes can’t be bought. He well and truly kicked his AI image to the curb there. And I respect him for that performance, even if I didn’t like parts of it.

    This is how I feel also.

  266. I disagree. It’s easy to dismiss people as ‘not his audience anyway’  but that’s not always true. I, for instance, was going to buy his cd, I honestly was, until that performance (and the way he acted in the days following) made me kind of dislike him. I was on the fence about him, but I enjoyed him on AI and was going to buy his cd, out of curiosity and also to support him. I doubt I’m the only one who was a potential fan who fell on the other side of the fence after that.

    But this happens with most artists, whether or not they do some over-the-top performance, doesn’t it? You’re on the fence, you think you might, then one thing or another turns the tide, and you buy … or you don’t. Nobody’s persona, music, performances are going to please everybody.

    I have made the same decision about some Idol albums when I thought that the Idols were too dull or too safe. !Quite a few of them actually, since based on pure *singing*, I really really like just about everybody who’s ever been on the show, and I like music in virtually every style. So it’s the music they put out and the way they perform it in the studio and live that makes the difference for me in buying or not, and what turns me off is — too safe and dull. This is what turned me off from Daughtry’s albums, even though I loved him on Idol, for example…

    I guess my point is — Whoever you are, as an entertainer, people are going to buy your music and your concert tickets if your music and performing in toto add up to something that suits their taste. And if it all adds up to something that doesn’t suit someone’s taste, they won’t buy. ….

    And since tastes vary so widely across the music-consuming public, I don’t see how an entertainer *can* make decisions based on not turning off this group of fans or that. *Whatever* you do, you’re going to turn off somebody. …. When it comes to the AMA performance, I know that a lot of people were turned off, but in real life I also know some people who had not seen him before and were really charmed by what they saw as the audacious craziness of the performance and are now fans and *did* buy, when they wouldn’t have had they not seen that performance….or not so soon, at any rate.

    In short, I guess that I think what Adam did on the AMA (and the similar things that I expect to see him do in the future, although probably not on network television!) is a bummer for some fans, because there are definitely folks like you who liked him but who don’t like the direction he seems to be going in….. And I know that I, as a fan, hate when that happens! (see Daughtry, Chris, and also, when it comes to his studio recording though not his live performances, Cook, David. Similarly, I love Archie as a pure singer, and there are lots of things he could have put on an album that I would buy — but what they did put on his album didn’t appeal to me a bit, so I didn’t.)

    But honestly, I don’t see that any of these performers can really worry about that *too* much. First, because, no matter *what* they do (too tame, not tame enough, pop over rockish, rock over pop-ish, etc.) they’re likely to attract some buyers and completely turn off others. And, second, because, while nothing produces certainty in entertainment, I still think that probably the best guide to doing okay in the long run is to do stick to what you want to be, what you think you do best, and what you feel most comfortable and happy doing. … And in only a very very very few cases can you do that and still please most of the people most of the time. So, for the performer’s sake, I kind of think they shouldn’t even try, since it’d be awfully hard to know how to judge that. You really can’t read the public’s mind (although I know record labels are in the business of trying!)

    This is not to say that I think Adam could not have done a better performance at the AMAs, by the way. I think he could have done a *much* better performance vocally. And I felt through the whole thing that he was kind of tense and trying too hard — which i think his later comments bear out. …. But, for me, that was just a result of his sitting through that whole show and thinking, Dang, How’m I going to top all these other people? And I have to top them because I’m the closer! …. And that ended up being just too much pressure.

    Actually, though, while I’m sure he has lost some potential fans over it, I’m among those who would bet that, in the long run, both the performance and the aftermath will be more to his benefit than to his detriment. … We’ll see, though, I guess. … And I do understand the disappointment of those who liked him on the show and don’t like his current direction! I feel exactly the same about Chris Daughtry, among others, and I have never been happy about that!

  267. From Pulse:

    Swift is the musical equivalent of a dinner roll. Everyone will have one of her because she’s safe and agreeable to a large swath of people who cannot stomach too much else. But there truly isn’t much “fascinating” about her. People like her because of her perceived normalcy and relate to her simple but respectable music. Compared to her, Adam is a scorpion kebab and someone like Lady GaGa would be a Japanese puffer fish dinner. They are certainly not meals everyone will partake in but they make for a better conversation than a piece of bread.

    It’s no surprise that Barbara didn’t find Taylor more fascinating than Adam and, apparently, neither do you since you seem exponentially more interested in discussing any and everything about Lambert compared to Swift. Fascinating!

    I like Taylor Swift. I just found this comment to be interesting. SuBo is like Taylor in some ways. (although SuBo’s story is more fascinating)

  268. A larger-level question that is very interesting is if Adam remains on the same sales track that he is on now’“ and I’ll be very plain here, if the current pattern holds, he is not going platinum’“ does that finally signal the death knell of American Idol as a starmaker? If Idol can’t make Adam, whom the media treated as if he were the one who invented music and song, into a superstar then who can they possibly make into one?

    I think the media interest came mainly from the gay issue and, secondarily, from the fact that he *is* an amazing singer, on the technical and artistic level. His sexuality spurred wild interest (take a look at most of the media report on him), and it’s hard to deny that he’s got a mad, crazy out-there voice that produced a series of pretty out-there, otherworldly sounds that, in the past, we didn’t really associate with American Idol. Hence, the media hype, to me.

    In my opinion, though, neither of those things makes for a platinum-selling artist, especially in the United States (just not sure about elsewhere).

    In fact, I think both those things kind of work against it. Especially for a guy. Who are the operatic guy singers who are very successful currently? Most of the most successful guy singers do more talking in their songs than singing, even.

    Also, Adam’s key genre, while in the pop field and thus, I guess, supposed to be very popular, is, to me, a kind of dance-y glitzy, often very theatrical pop that we currently associate with femaleness, *definitely* not with maleness, and that, in fact, isn’t really out there all that much at all at this point, unless you count Gaga. I think that definitely works strongly against his attaining platinum, at least any time soon.

    But not attaining platinum won’t make him any whit less talented. He is still extremely talented and his talent is extremely interesting, and the media are often interested in what’s kind of unique and interesting, so they may well sustain their high interest in him — especially because he gives good photograph! But since when does having a very interesting musical talent translate into the highest sales? Seldom, it looks like to me.

    For the record, I think something quite similar about Kris. His stuff is also pop, and thus presumably very popular, but when you look at the very top of the pop charts, you hardly see *anybody* doing his kind of music, looking like him, etc. He isn’t a good looking American black guy doing semi-rap or sex-charged hip-hoppish pop. His stuff is found farther down the pop charts and, sometimes, topping the AC or *maybe* HAC charts, for the most part. Therefore, just as with Adam, I envision him having no trouble going gold but probably having a darn hard time reaching platinum, in the current environment.

  269. But his name recognition outside the bubble is mostly negative, I would argue.

    This may be true, but I’m not sure any of us individually is in a position to judge. …. Among the people I know who don’t watch Idol, my impression is that his name recognition is quite positive, interested, curious, kind of amused, definitely intrigued, and, surprisingly, focused a lot on the voice that they’ve heard in the media he has. …. And I’m quite sure that other folks here know groups of people who have the opposite impression…. How that all shakes out nationwide, and internationally, I think would be pretty hard to put together at this point. Only time’s going to tell on that one.

  270. adam’s plunge in chart positin may be disheartening to his fans, but i say patience. Adam is in it for the long haul. This is his first release only in to the second week. I do not feel his music is being promoted, just his personality. While all the talk may be good publicity for the artist, it is the music that will sell him. I wish he could just be out there performing, not making all of these silly appearances. It is a bit confusing to me though, Susan Boyle’s record has received awful reviews from the music critics, whereas Adam is getting rave reviews, but joe public obviously does not agree. Who are the people buying the SuBo stuff. Gag gifts for christmas?

  271. Babybelle, I’m late to resume the convo, but I again disagree about airplay at the time David Cook’s album dropped. LO might not have had a ton of adds yet at that point, but TOML was already a monster and the most successful coronation single by far already. I believe a fair amount of his sales were due to airplay.

  272. I am truly impressed by the staying power of Taylor Swift’s “Fearless”. got grammy nominations and have gotten a decent sales increase for her albums as well. some people may not like her songs, but it seems to connect w/ alot of listeners, strong enough to buy it. no controversy, just radio plays and good videos.

    SuBo’s album sales is impressive. not my cup of tea,though. but i am a fan of Bocelli( got 3 of his albums), so i wasnt surprised about his numbers.

    looks like Carrie’s new album is in its way to becoming a platinum. she surely is blessed. i have a feeling that will be seeing her again this time next year. next time for her Christmas album.

    i cant believe people are still discussing Adam’s AMA performance. its over and done w/. he got a big drop on his 2nd, i think that’s normal. best thing that his fans can do is to buy their 4th ,5th, and 6th copy of his album.

    Allison’s seems to have sold more than what was predected. and i dont think her drop wont be so bad. heck, most of her publicity seems to come out after her album got released. she could use more, though.

  273. But this happens with most artists, whether or not they do some over-the-top performance, doesn’t it? You’re on the fence, you think you might, then one thing or another turns the tide, and you buy ‘ ¦ or you don’t. Nobody’s persona, music, performances are going to please everybody.

    ITA. I bought albums by 2 of the 3 S8 people, but not the 3rd. In theory, I should love that 3rd person, since I tend to listen to that type of music, but since I was on the fence, I didn’t preorder the album. When it was streaming, nothing about the album grabbed me. Watching YT videos of performances by this person, I’ve been bored, and though I keep trying, I’m unable to get all the way through any song. I keep thinking that I *should* like the album, so I keep trying. (Sometimes an album grows on me.) Hasn’t happened so far, though.

    So, it looks like this person, while he appeals to many other people, just doesn’t appeal to me. That isn’t an indication of anything other than my tastes and interests at this point in time, and in no way indicates that he can’t have a very successful career.

    OTOH, I’m loving Allison’s album, but suspect that it’s not appealing to many people, (here’s a clue for me — low sales), so just because I like something doesn’t mean it has wide appeal.

    And, just because something sells like mad doesn’t mean I want to listen to it. (Susan Boyle, for example.)

    We can’t use our own tastes and interests to figure out what the world at large is going to buy, and ITA that no one’s music, performances, or persona will appeal to everyone. Viva la difference!

  274. So, what we need is another way to measure the listening audience besides radio play. Is there one? Is someone currently developing one? Anyone? Bueller?

    I’ll fill in for Bueller. Isn’t Vevo, (if it takes off), possibly going to be one measure that can be used? If a lot of people create their playlists with certain songs, that’s an indication that they’re listening. I think it bodes well for Adam and Allison that they were included at the launch of Vevo, and especially for Adam that he is one of the names that they keep dropping, and they included him as a performer last night.

    For example:
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2356882,00.asp
    “Celebrities like Lady Gaga, Adam Lambert, Bono, Pete Wentz, and Mariah Carey joined Google CEO Eric Schmidt in Manhattan to launch the new music video Web site. ”

    Hey, his name is in good company there, and of all the people there, they chose to mention him, so that looks promising. *This* may be where the record label intends to market Adam more than the radio, since he is a visual performer as well.

    Time will tell for all of the S8 people, as well as the music industry in general, though. But I’m glad to see that the industry is trying something other than just radio play, since I gave up listening to the radio a while back. The sales that Susan Boyle has aren’t the norm for the record labels anymore, and they need to do something other than the “same old” in order to capture and recapture an audience.

  275. adam’s plunge in chart positin may be disheartening to his fans, but i say patience. Adam is in it for the long haul. This is his first release only in to the second week.

    I so agree with this…! It seems people and not just his fans, think if he doesn’t go gold or something by the first of the year then he is a failure. I see it more as he has all of next year to promote this album. He will most likely do an extensive tour of the US and probably will tour Europe and Asia also. He has the potential for multiple singles off the album, so if one doesn’t fly another one may. And what is considered a failure???? is going gold a failure??? I mean he is half way there, and I honestly believe that selling 500K will be more than enough for him to do another album, which he will have way more time to work on, than the rushed 3 or 4 months for this one….so if this one isn’t his million seller his next may be. Adam isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. I look forward to looking back on the year come Dec of 2010, and see where it all ends up, because to me that time will be more appropriate for judging the success of his first album than where he stands after 3 or 4 weeks after it has been released.

  276. Just curious as I read through the comments. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison. Based on record sales so far, Adam is the clear leader. So, why aren’t there gloom and doom predictions for Kris and Allison as well?

    We won’t have any idea of how things really will work out long-term for any of these people for quite a while, but I’m struck by the focus on gloom and doom for Adam, and not the others, if we’re looking at sales numbers.

  277. The truth is the real problem is that Adam and the fellow S8 idols are simply not getting the radio airplay so there aren’t enough single sales and so then they aren’t getting any radio play and so on’ ¦

    I’m not sure that radio play is the main measure anymore. Is Susan Boyle getting a lot of radio play? (Maybe she is, but I haven’t heard about it.) I heard that she doesn’t have a single out at all. But she is managing to sell more albums than anyone right now. Radio play and selling singles can only be good, but I think one can be successful without that, too.

    I’m really looking forward to seeing what kind of role Vevo, (and similar ventures), plays in promoting artists, vs. the radio. I think that radio doesn’t play the major role that it once did. But, then, I’ve often bought albums from artists who have had little or no airplay, so I’m used to that kind of thinking. LOL

    I also think that a lot of income is generated by endorsements, products (how many female artists now have their own perfume lines? There must be money in that, in addition to the clothing lines, and other merchandising that seems common), and touring, and not everything rests solely on album sales.

    If the label sees the opportunity to make money in ways in addition to album sales, (assuming that they get a cut of that — depends on the contract, obviously), I suspect they’ll be less likely to drop someone than if they see the album/single sales as the only means of income.’

    That said, I still don’t think that close to 250,000 albums sold in 2 weeks is a bad showing in the current record buying climate. (GaGa isn’t likely to be dropped, and is an established artist, but not far more successful with the current sales numbers, for example).

    I do worry about Allison, but think it’s possible that the record company has some other plans for her that we haven’t seen them roll out yet. (I can hope!)

    Only time will tell what really happens to any of these people long-term, but I wish them all success.

  278. “Tom Corson, EVP GM of RCA Music Group and Barry Weiss, Chairman and CEO RCA/Jive, would not have done a press op with Adam if they had any issue with him. ”

    Totally disagree with this. Of course they’re going to put on a happy public face – we’ll never know if they’re happy or not. They certainly aren’t going to broadcast if they aren’t happy.

  279. adam’s plunge in chart positin may be disheartening to his fans, but i say patience. Adam is in it for the long haul. This is his first release only in to the second week.

    This is a courtesy that should be afforded to all of the Idol artists. I agree with you 100%

  280. David Archuleta is actually gaining ground with his Holiday offering. Impressive.

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