Phillp Phillips – The World From The Side of the Moon – 90 Second Snips!

It’s SOOOO Phillip Phillips and that is a positive thing. I’m looking forward to buying his album. :)

More interested.

(So Easy sounds like a commercial or a tv series intro.)  

Really liking these longer snippets!  Can’t wait for the album!

I’ve been playing the snippets at least once a day since they were made available, and now some of the songs are on repeat in my head.  The ones that are most memorable to me are the ones that Phillip either wrote or co-wrote.  They sound more authentic, and the quality of the lyrics and music is better.  I was ambivalent about the album the first time I listened to the snippets, but now I am counting the days until I can get the Target Deluxe version. 

I think Phillip has several songs that are potential radio.  At the same time, he has balanced that with songs that will earn him credibility as a singer and song writer with the AAA market.

Got my RS mag today – 2-1/2 stars.

It’s a buy for me.

 Page 83 – Jody Rosen

Thanks — will have to check it out

I bought Home but never in a million years figured I would buy anything else.

I was wrong.

That’s cool that Rolling Stone reviewed his album!

As a pretty rabid BluJay – I love the snippets, surprisingly! If I was to compare the album to anything I’d say Fun. meets Mumford & Sons. I’ll probably be picking  it up :)

& a very interesting cover of Wicked Game. I quite like it!

OMG… This is a good album! 

I can’t believe I actually said that.

I’m gonna eat my whole words… again!

Rolling Stone reviews on a five star basis. Two and a half stars is right in the middle, so I guess average? Would have to read the review to get the tone.

 From what I sense, five stars is almost never given – seems to be mostly older established acts.  Even four stars is not that often.  Would have liked to see it get three stars as I think it merits it.  Listened to the longer iTunes snippets.

Checked the mag – think 29 reviews.
2 stars – one
2-1/2 stars  – four
3 stars – six
3-1/2 stars – twelve
4 stars – three
4-1/2 stars – three  (LedZep, RS, Tito Puente)

“5’s are rare (and yeah, heavily to heritage acts) and so are 2’s. Going back to the beginning of August, I found only three 2’s (Nelly Furtado, Owl City, and Flo Rida), a small number of 2.5’s (Carly Rae Jepsen, Dan Deacon, Aimee Mann, Matt & Kim), and no 1.5’s, 1’s, or half-stars at all.”

So basically Philip got the second lowest rating that they give out. 

“Scotty McCreery Clear As Day was 2 stars and he ended up selling Platinum. ”

Of course the RS rating doesn’t say anything about if it’s going to *sell.* It’s a somewhat subjective, but very esteemed and influential, view on *if it’s any good.* 

I don’t know which Philip Phillips would rather have: being able to say that he is a “platinum selling” artist or “a critically acclaimed” artist. Most artists would take the “platinum” screaming for joy, but knowing Philip’s self-proclaimed artistry and hate towards “Home”, I think that he might rather take the “Critically Acclaimed”. With the RS review setting the baseline.. good luck with that, Philip. 

Well, Justin Bieber`s album got 3 stars.

I would like to give PP`s album 3.5 stars. It`s really good as a debut album. It
surprisingly has several potential hit songs. It`s commerical, also alternative. It balances well.

PP has made a really good album! Might even be the best album by a winner ever! I’ve listened to all of them, and most of the time, winners’ albums feel rushed or feel like they are forced to sing stuff they aren’t comfortable with, but PP’s seem authentic and he seems really comfortable and in his element!

He’s made a bunch of songs I find thoroughly enjoyable! Gone Gone Gone, Hold On, Tell Me A Story, Can’t go Wrong and So Easy are really really good songs. Some of the best I’ve heard this year!

When Interscope releases Jessica’s album next year, I hope it’s as good as this one. I said this in the other thread :  I disliked Phillip when he was on Idol. because of his relatively weak vocal skills, but I guess I’m a convert now :)

Good Music FTW!

You’ve heard the full album??

Actually Rolling Stone gave Trespassing (the album) 4/5 stars.

It sounds cohesive, but these snippets have really cemented for me that I’m not keen on this type of music or this type of voice. Listened through once and couldn’t wait to get to the end. However, I don’t like Mumford & Sons either so the problem with this type of music seems to be with me!

I do like Idol though so really want this to do well and keep the ‘we can find an idol’ brand alive!!

I’m not a fan of this kind of music either, but I don’t consider that it’s a “problem”. lol  P2’s musical style isn’t to my taste, but it does seem like he has recorded a cohesive album that reflects that style and with the right promotion, it may do quite well commercially.

True, but it was not the same reviewer as the one who reviewed P2’s album:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/trespassing-20120515
 

For RS, that is not so hot, really.  I expected a little better, like three stars.  No review?  My mag has not come – nor my Netflix; I am bereft.

Well, reviews in Rs do influence the buying public, as they clue us to potential turkeys and potential gems.  I wish I had read a review of Jason Mraz’s last album before it bought it:  I like one song.  Horrible album.

A review is just one person opinion of something, doesn’t mean much really.  Unless everyone says it is bad, only then do you need to worry.  Many albums now considered greatest albums of all time were given bad reviews in Rolling Stone (e.g. Beatles’ Abbey Road, Simon and Garfunkel’s Bridge Over Troubled Water, Pink Floyd’s Wish You Were Here, many of Led Zeppelin’s albums). Often it is just a matter of personal taste, for example all of Black Sabbath’s albums were given 1 star.  But after these albums become what’s general considered to be great album, Rolling Stone then would give what some might considered a cynical reappraisal and give them better reviews and ratings.

Ratings of what’s some of what’s considered greatest albums of all time – The Beach Boys’ Pet Sounds (3 stars),  Black Sabbath’s Paranoid (1 star), David Bowie’s Ziggy Stardust (3 stars), ), Nirvana’s Nevermind (3 stars), Queen’s A Night at the Opera (where you might find Bohemian Rhapsody, 2 stars).

3 stars isn’t too bad? Just note that Paris Hilton’s album Paris was given 3 stars by RS.

Is the album pre-sales underperforming?  It’s doing worse relative to Scotty and Adam’s debut albums on iTunes.  The 2nd single didn’t sell much either, which is alarming.

I’m concerned he will only sell 50k or so first week.  People are just going to buy “Home” instead of the album.

His second single wasn’t really a single. It was a freebie if you ordered the album. My guess is he’ll sell more actual CDs. I know that’s what I want. I honestly think he’ll be just fine. But I could be wrong. :)

Is the album pre-sales underperforming?  It’s doing worse relative to Scotty and Adam’s debut albums on iTunes.  The 2nd single didn’t sell much either, which is alarming.

That “second single” was never promoted beyond one tweet from P2, so apparently it wasn’t the label’s intent for it to be a serious single right now. Since its download-with-preorder sales presumably don’t count as singles sales but as album pre-order sales, it doesn’t tell us much. 

All predictors of album sales are skewed by the label’s decision to sell the most exciting-to-hardcores version of the album at Target. 

His StageIt show with PS22 had sold just under 200 tickets when I looked a couple minutes ago, and it also wasn’t promoted beyond a tweet here and there, so I think we can figure that the number of ultra-hardcore P2 fans who regard his every tweet as a call to arms is small. 

P2 will be dependent on “ordinary” promotion to sell product. Clearly, this hasn’t stopped Home from getting fantastic radio play, which in itself helps make P2 “news” for the talk show circuit.

Re: radio. I was expecting Home to peak on HAC and be still in the teens on CHR before the album release, and it’s now looking like the song has a good chance of getting into the top 10 on CHR right on time for album drop. Whether one hit single is enough to fuel album sales these days is very debatable… but top 10 going into the holiday freeze, on a hip-yet-sentimental song right when people are thinking “aw, heck, I’m in the store, I need stocking stuffers”… there are worse fates for an artist.

PP`s album preorder for now:
iTunes: Deluxe #26(peak#15) Standard #332(peak #150?)
Amazon: Deluxe #54(peak #26) Standard #97(peak #60?)
Target: Only Target #3 Standard #7(peak #6)
Walmart:
1.allover “Zinepak #20 Deluxe #64 Standard behind #120
2.preorder “Zinepak #3 Deluxe #5 Standard #13

I first time follow Idol`s sales. How were Scotty, Adam and previous Idol`s preorders at this same countdown? On the other hand Where We Came From is a promoting song not the second song. PP even doesn`t perform it in public so far. I hope the label promotes PP`s album well because it`s a good album. At least PP`s album will take advantage of Black Friday.

What you’re saying about P2s fans is so déjà vu to what was said about A couple of other idols. Hope it works out differently for him.

Compared to previous Idol winners, his pre-sale went up very late.  I think it was possible to pre-order Cook’s CD the day after he won.

 I had wondered about that, EH, I figured maybe it was RCA and Interscope having a different sales plan. IDK the details about other winners, but DCTR was available for pre-sale on Amazon a week after DC won, on May 29th. That was six months before it dropped, on November 18. 

I don’t know what Interscope’s strategy is with this much shorter pre-order time frame for Phillip…and I have no idea what they did for Scotty…but this seems to be a different approach.

The special snowflake comments are hilarious. P2’s ace in the hole is that radio is accepting Home with gusto. He even has a #1 in his genre (Triple A) which is amazing.

I see a very small Idol fanbase so I think an opening week of 60-80 seems on the money. Too bad he doesn’t have a bigger core fanbase because that always helps to build buzz.

I’m also sticking with my prediction that the song gets a Grammy nod as song of the year (and maybe even wins.) ;0

I thought Interscope hadn’t submitted Home to the Grammys.

Could be their own way to do business. We only know they’re not using the same approach as Sony/RCA with P2. I also suspect the unexpected growing success of Home yet to peak 6 months after its release is also a factor.

I think it was Eilonwy who suggested it could be because they want a shot at the new artist of the year award for next year.

y curiosity was more why the pre-order delay. Unless, for Interscope – that’s not a delay – maybe short lead times is SOP for them

It’s not a significant delay. Cook’s DCTR pre-order time was insanely, absurdly early in order to capture post-Idol impulse purchases. Normal RCA pre-order schedule was on the order of a month before release, give or take (there’s a lot of variance).

Snippets two weeks ahead of drop isn’t all that late, either. If a label’s not running a “free single each week for six weeks ahead” strategy — which was never going to happen on P2’s schedule — there’s really no hurry to get snippets up until there’s a promo plan in operation.

The only thing we learn from the timing of these little promo elements that are invisible to the vast majority of the music-buying public is that P2 got started on his album late and therefore finished near the last minute — which we already knew would happen, back in May (and there were people pointing this out in April, come to think of it).

ETA for Offleash, naah, the theory about BNA for the following year isn’t mine. I wouldn’t be shocked if Interscope had a strategy related to Grammy nominations, but I haven’t exerted even a single brain cell over it yet.

I can’t remember season 8’s presale numbers, but I remember Scotty’s presale numbers on iTunes were somewhere in the 80s or 90s. Scotty had a single with an AI of around 20 million when his album came out. Home will have a combined AI of around 75 million, or more than 3x that of ILYTB, and PP’s album is dropping Thanksgiving week.

Due to the fact that P2 was a popular winner, releasing the best week of the year and has a well-known, iTunes monster, hit on three formats, he should at least be able to to open with what the winner before him opened with. PP’s debut should hit the 175-200K mark at this time of year and under these circumstances.

P2 has a song that is currently number 3 on HAC and is headed for at least the top 15 on CHR. Out of an AI of 73 million, only 2 and a half million of that AI is on AAA stations. Home is in the Top 10 on iTunes. Phil isn’t just a AAA artist at this point.

“PP’s debut should hit the 175-200K mark at this time of year and under these circumstances.”

No way.  CMM which could be song of the year only generated opening week sales of 45K for the album. AI lost 30% of its audience this year so that will have a big effect. Plus for some reason P2 doesn’t seem to have many of the OTT fans that live and die for their fav. So Xmas will not be full of Idol fans gifting his album to folks who could care less!

We only know they’re not using the same approach as Sony/RCA with P2.

Or maybe they learned from their mistakes with Pia and Haley or Sony’s mistakes with pushing artists into genres that really did not represent who they were as artists.   Or maybe they know what eventually will happen to those who started out with a big bang because a big Idol fan base, then only to have the fan base abandon them.

With P2, it’s slow and steady. Better that than flying up to #1 only to crash hard within a couple weeks, but that’s JMO. I also believe the label understands that and is ready to be patient.

I agree.  Otherwise, they would have pushed for a very different CD.

Carly Rae isn’t a current US American Idol winner. AI winners, and a few runner ups, have their best numbers right after their season ends. Carly Rae has nothing to do with P2.

AI lost 30%, but the year before it lost 15% and Scotty’s numbers were better than the winner from the season before and even the season before that. If viewers mattered, why didn’t Scotty’s numbers go down? 

Even if you want to start going on precentages of viewers, for some odd reason, that would mean P2 should be able to hit the 140K mark easily. Add in the facts that he has a single that is reaching more than 3x the amount of prospective buyers and that 10x more people will be buying music the week his album drops, that should easily make up the difference.

As did many of us, liked “Gone, Gone, Gone.”  Liked originals better than covers.  Music redundant as have Mraz/Matthews.  “Home” and “GGG” “leaven P’s overbearing self-seriousness.”

Yes – he does give that impression sometimes, but still like the album.

I didn’t mean Interscope would be patient and fine with P2’s album low sales LOL. I meant they would be patient with not outstanding first week sales, as long as the sales keep steady and keep adding up. ;)

P2’s album is a grower more than an instant hit IMO, so if it connects with the public, and if it gets enough promo, I could easily see a steady sales pattern over the long run rather than huge numbers right out of the gate.

Well of course statistically his first week sales should be the highest! There is however a difference between having good first week sales followed 4 weeks later by sales under 1k like we’ve seen this year with non-established Idols, and decent first week sales followed by sales in the 10-20k for instance.
That being said, our “predictions” are pretty much as reliable as today’s horoscope, but I can’t deny I’m very curious to see how it all unfolds for P2, because I find his journey as a new artist unexpected and fascinating. 

Four weeks after PP’s debut date will be the 17th of December. You aren’t going to have to worry about album numbers dropping off until January.

Also, this first era, six months after his Idol win and a couple of months after the Idol tour, isn’t comparable to Idol’s second and third releases from other seasons.

We should wait two to three years from now and compare his second era with everyone else’s second era.

I wasn’t a P2 fan on Idol, but I’ve gotta say this is good.  Really good.  So good that I’ll likely be buying this when it drops.  It has a touch of Dave Matthews and even Coldplay (yes, I heard it!).   The entire album has a very cohesive feel to it without every song sounding alike (you all know what I’m talking about).

Good job, P2!

I don’t believe it has to happen lol. Both the artist and the label need to do their part. Changing genre for the sophomore album, or making it too much of a rehash of the previous album is not the way to go. If that’s what happens with P2’s sophomore album, then he too will fail.

Of course, one could come up with 101 scenarios to predict P2’s ultimate failure, or success for that matter. One album at a time.

The sophomore slump is not about failure. It’s about the fact that Idols have a following and name recognition from the show that is at its highest right after their season, so the album sales from their first album are going to be inflated. This has been the case for all of them, outside of one Kelly Clarkson, even including Carrie and Daughtry. That doesn’t mean Carrie or Daughtry were “failures” with their second albums or second eras, but even they experienced the sophomore slump. Carrie and Daughtry didn’t “fail”.

No one is predicting that P2 will “fail”either and these stats aren’t wild scenarios pulled out of nowhere. Facts are facts and the numbers don’t lie- there has been a sophomore slump for every Idol not named Kelly. Maybe someone else other than KC (from back in 2004) will break the curse one day, but so far it hasn’t happened.  

I’m pretty sure Fantasia 3rd album more than her 2nd.   So it is possible to not face the declining Idol model (but it is very rare). I think that Fantasia is a good model for many Idols – if they can just generate a gold album they’ll be okay.The problem is when the first album sells a ton and then sales drop 90% for the second!

I’m pretty sure Fantasia 3rd album more than her 2nd.   So it is possible to not face the declining Idol model (but it is very rare).

If so, it’s not documented anywhere. Third and second Fantasia albums probably did sell roughly the same (assuming the Wikipedia info is slightly outdated), so yes, it’s possible to break the “slump” pattern on the THIRD album in relation to the SECOND album, given very solid radio play in one’s home genre. But Fantasia showed the normal slump from debut to sophomore albums.

I update the Idol sophomore slump chart only about once a year, in December or January, so it’s not perfectly up-to-date, but it’ll give you the general pattern.*

*So if anybody’s snowflake’s sophomore numbers are un-represented (released in 2012) or under-represented (Idol Chatter provided updates on a 2011 album after mid-December 2011), assume I’ll get to it in about 6-8 weeks, when I do the global updates for the whole site. Specific reminders won’t be necessary.

No one is stating that Carrie or Daughtry are “commercial faiures”, just that they experienced the sophomore slump.

The soph slump means that an Idol’s second album is somewhere around 25%-50% (or even less) of their debut album. Carrie and Daughtry’s second albums fit this pattern. Once again, that doesn’t mean their numbers or their second eras were in any way considered to be “failures”, it means that they also followed the pattern of all Idols NNK(not named Kelly) in having a sophomore slump.

My predictions many months ago was that he might sell 100-125K (IIRC), but might get to 150K if he gets a hit song.  Although I was thinking then more of another single from the album becoming a hit, but since they hadn’t really promoted a new single, and “Home” must now be considered a hit, I would still go for 125-150K. 

I think the first week sales numbers will depend on whether or not enough people make the connection between P2’s album and the fact that P2 is the one who sings “Home.” Ironically, one thing going for him is his name LOL. People are more likely to remember it.

I’m still sticking to 100k, unless the promo is significant, which I really don’t expect until next year with the new single release.

 I don’t consider Carrie and Daughtry’s sophomore albums commercial failures by any means.

Neither does anyone else, OffLeash..but they both had a Sophomore Slump – look at Eilonwy’s facts. Every Idol but one. 

Isn’t it possible that referring to that slump as a commercial failure is the point of disagreement? That’s a Bubble verdict, I think. The Labels all have access to plenty of data for Idol sales patterns, for 11 years. How can their Bean Counters not expect the pattern to hold true? There’s only been one outlier in 11 years.

Even though money talks, certainly – there can be more than one reason why an artist and a Label are no longer a good fit. Or, I suppose, you can have a Label that would only be satisfied w/more than the debut numbers from an Idol artist. But that is unrealistic, and doomed to disappointment.

Bean Counters are realistic and fact driven  – not constrained by any Bubble notions – but they are constrained by the unrealistic advances in the idol contracts…which may lead to Labels trying to stuff artists in boxes where they don’t begin to fit. 

Without the ‘commercial failure’ tag, and considering we really don’t know the Label’s expectations – the Slump simply represents comparative numbers, IMO. They have a lot to tell us about the Idol patterns – but they don’t have to be characterized as a ‘failure’. That word confuses more than it clarifies.

JMO. Of Course.

Not all Idol slumps are what I consider commercial failures, as I’ve already explained. My idea of commercial failure would be the sales numbers we’ve seen this year for some alums. I don’t however know the terms of the sophomore albums contracts, or of those the label didn’t have to sign but picked up their option. Did the labels still manage to recoup their investments and/or are the alums sharing some expenses? No idea. For those who are still with their respective labels, I would assume the labels either recouped their expenses, or are willing to keep trying.

As an aside, I disagree with the notion that Idols should be considered “new artists” by the labels. Yes, it would be ideal, but let’s not forget that the label didn’t discover them and decide to add them to their rosters because they loved what they heard. The winners and runner ups were imposed on the labels by a contract with the show. Maybe the other finalists were subjected to terms that were favorable enough for the label to take a chance they might not have otherwise.

Beyonce is already on board to do the half time show at the Super Bowl this year. 
Home will probably be used in a SB commercial, though. :)

Not all Idol slumps are what I consider commercial failures, as I’ve already explained.

You have, OffLeash. It’s your explanation of how you arrive at the “Commercial Failure” verdict that I disagree with. We can all have our own ideas of what constitutes a ‘commercial failure’, based on choosing varying arbitrary percentages from the list of Idol Sophomore Slump figures. Each person is certainly free to chose a percentage for a cut-off point, which may or may not take other economic or trend driven conditions into consideration.

What we cannot know, as you say, is what the different Labels financial expectations are/were – and so each ‘failure’ tag is subjective to the person making it, without any provable connection to the reality of the industry. What we will not get from that approach is agreement, or even a factual baseline. So, the tag itself tells us nothing but personal opinion.

We cannot even use whether the artist in question is retained by the Label as an indicator – since we don’t know the variables there either…most of the time, we never will. 

I’m uncomfortable with pronouncements based on so many assumptions, more so when I don’t even find them necessary.There are plenty of very nice facts which don’t require that a subjective individual judgement be attached to make them useful in numbers projections.

So, I will respectfully disagree with your conclusions…Way it goes.

In re your ETA – I didn’t see this ‘new artist’ argument – it’s not mine, so I will omit addressing it here. 

But the Labels may try to be fiscally responsible, and maximize their financial return on the winner they are required to sign by contract, this may or may not work out well for the artist. It’s a gamble for both parties. Labels would never agree to sign that contract with Idol Alphabet Soup if they didn’t like the short term odds a lot.

But any of the other persons signed, the runner-up by tradition, or other finishers they chose, are not imposed…and the same realities of the Idol Sales Pattern apply – so any fumbling about that the Labels do in choosing which of their subsidiary labels or producers, or songs or genres to give the artist is totally on their own heads. There is no contractual obligation to the show to sign these additional artists.

IMO. Of Course.

Some of the songs I was unsure of with the shorter snippets I think I will love upon hearing these longer versions. ‘Can’t Go Wrong’, ‘Tell Me a Story’, ‘Fool’s Dance’, to name a few. Not really any song I dislike now! :D Still really diggin’ that ‘Wicked Game’ cover too.

‘So Easy’ really does sound like a TV theme.. like for a Dawson’s Creek, One Tree Hill, etc. type of show, haha.

At this point, Interscope has not announced that they are going to market P2 to only the AAA format with the next single or with the album. There are some, who aren’t involved in the marketing plan, who have decided to label PP is a AAA artist. That doesn’t mean that is how his label sees him.

Over 90% of P2’s airplay is coming from formats outside of AAA. His album has songs that could easily be follow ups to the M&S sounding Home, especially on the HAC format.

Gotye released his album at the worst time possible, January 31st, and it has already sold over 700K. Not bad for a AAA artist. With Philip coming from an AI win and having Home at the top of the charts, he should be able to do better than this since he gets the benefit of releasing during the best purchasing time of the year.

well they won’t be marketing him as a Pop artist. I would think they will send his next single to both AAA and HAC radio (possibly to alt rock radio as well, although it appears Home wasn’t actually sent to that format, rather that a few alt rock stations independently started playing it)

Gotye didn’t try to market himself only to AAA, either. It just happened to be that outside of STIUTK, that was the format that kept playing him.

No major label hopes to exclusively market artists to one format, but A&R reps do look at the style of the music that they are producing and make judgments about what the core format is. It is not unreasonable for fans to say that P2’s style seems like an obvious fit for AAA and, if AI stigma doesn’t rear its head again, would be more likely to get continued airplay there (it’s worth noting that M&S themselves didn’t hit the top 20 with IWW on HAC even though it went #1 on HAC and Alt; LOTTL’s song structure is actually less conventional so I’m not expecting a much different pattern there).

I hope P2 will do well. But what will make him a mainstream artist is continued reception from mainstream radio, not just one huge single. Same as it ever was.