Idols In Concert – Stats – 10/14/10

Here are the concert reports for Idols this week. A whole lot of Carrie and SYTYCD with a sprinkling of other Idols.

Please feel free to post any current numbers in this thread. Thanks.

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6 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
BOK Center; Tulsa, Okla.
Oct. 10, 2010
$547, 870; 11, 340 of 11, 340 (sold-out); $55.50, $35.50

7 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
American Airlines Center; Dallas, Texas
Oct. 9, 2010
$495, 788; 10, 445 of 10, 925 (96%); $55.50, $35.50

8 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
Stockton Arena; Stockton, Calif.
Sept. 28, 2010
$412, 260; 8, 320 of 8, 320 (sold-out); $55.50, $35.50

9 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
Toyota Center; Houston, Texas
Oct. 6, 2010
$389, 363; 7, 968 of 8, 436 (95%); $55.50, $35.50

10 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
Jobing.com Arena; Glendale, Ariz.
Oct. 3, 2010
$378, 172; 7, 974 of 8, 170 (98%); $55.50, $35.50

12 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
HP Pavilion; San Jose, Calif.
Sept. 27, 2010
$375, 667; 7, 818 of 8, 161 (96%); $55.50, $35.50

13 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
Rose Garden; Portland, Ore.
Sept. 25, 2010
$366, 658; 7, 365 of 7, 365 (sold-out); $55.50, $35.50

15 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
Radio City Music Hall; New York, N.Y.
Oct. 7, 2010
$352, 971; 5, 711 of 5, 892 (97%); $69.50, $39.50

16 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
Rabobank Arena; Bakersfield, Calif.
Sept. 29, 2010
$329, 352; 7, 621 of 7, 621; $55.50, $35.50

17 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
AT&T Center; San Antonio, Texas
Oct. 7, 2010
$326, 554; 6, 587 of 6, 587 (sold-out); $55.50, $35.50

18 Carrie Underwood, Billy Currington, Sons of Sylvia
San Diego Sports Arena; San Diego, Calif.
Oct. 1, 2010
$325, 007; 7, 412 of 7, 603 (97%); $55.50, $35.50

19 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
Time Warner Cable Arena; Charlotte, N.C.
Oct. 2, 2010
$296, 324; 5, 802 of 6, 604 (88%); $55, $37.50

20 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
Amway Arena; Orlando, Fla.
Sept. 30, 2010
$291, 935; 5, 680 of 6, 840 (83%); $55, $37.50

24 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
1st Mariner Arena; Baltimore, Md.
Oct. 5, 2010
$263, 442; 5, 115 of 7, 637 (67%); $55, $37.50

29 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
Verizon Wireless Arena; Manchester, N.H.
Oct. 10, 2010
$224, 402; 4, 317 of 6, 060 (71%); $55, $37.50

30 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
MGM Grand at Foxwoods; Mashantucket, Conn.
Oct. 9, 2010
$215, 743; 3, 862 of 3, 954 (98%); $67, $47

34 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
American Airlines Arena; Miami, Fla.
Sept. 29, 2010
$208, 595; 3, 951 of 5, 440 (73%); $55, $37.50

40 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
Richmond Coliseum; Richmond, Va.
Oct. 3, 2010
$186, 450; 3, 510 of 6, 106 (57%); $55, $37.50

51 So You Think You Can Dance Tour
Sun National Bank Center; Trenton, N.J.
Oct. 6, 2010
$139, 892; 2, 596 of 4, 502 (58%); $55, $37.50

60 Adam Lambert
Harrah’s Grand Casino Event Center; Tunica, Miss.
Sept. 11, 2010
$95, 399; 2, 320 of 2, 400 (97%); $60, $25

163 Kris Allen
Harrah’s Cherokee; Cherokee, N.C.
June 12, 2010
$25, 850; 892 of 1, 200 (74%); $45, $12.50

279 Saving Abel, We Are The Fallen, American Bang, Taddy Porter
Knitting Factory; Reno, Nev.
July 14, 2010
$3, 245; 178 of 1, 185 (15%); $49, $14

280 Jordin Sparks, Ashlynn Huff, Days Difference
Knitting Factory; Reno, Nev.
July 3, 2010
$3, 188; 166 of 1, 185 (14%); $64, $11.50

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96 Comments

  1. Maybe those Reno shows should have been booked at a smaller venue. Jordin’s tour really did struggle. How many dates did she end up doing?

    Carrie’s concert stats continue to be awesome. As do Adam’s

    Kris’s box office report for that NC show isn’t bad. 74% capacity and average $29 tix price is certainly decent, if nothing to jump and down in joy about.

  2. My goodness Jordin, I can’t believe that she could only get 166 people to attend her concert.

  3. Eeps at Reno. Danny played that same club in August with Jane Dear Girls and Trailer Choir. We don’t usually see stats for his shows, but the videos seemed to show a typical reasonable turnout.

    For that show as for almost all of the ones that he does, there was a country radio station sponsoring the show and helping to promote it. Not sure if that would have been the case (in their own genres, lol) for Jordin or We are the Fallen?

    Maybe it helps more than I’d appreciated to have the radio station linked in and talking up the show on air to at least some degree.

  4. Jordin has done well in radioplay and singles sales (at least until recently), and seems to be more of a single seller than a CD seller. She has also opened for a lot of huge acts: Alicia Keyes, Jonas Brothers, and Britney Spears, but that doesn’t seem to have expanded her fanbase, at least as a live performer. It’s been hard for her to establish herself as a solo draw.

  5. It’s been hard for her to establish herself as a solo draw.

    Shouldnt she still be drawing from her idol fan base though?

  6. Jordin has done well in radioplay and singles sales (at least until recently), and seems to be more of a single seller than a CD seller. She has also opened for a lot of huge acts: Alicia Keyes, Jonas Brothers, and Britney Spears, but that doesn’t seem to have expanded her fanbase, at least as a live performer. It’s been hard for her to establish herself as a solo draw.

    I just don’t think Jordin has the right image for a young pop performer. In that area, I have a feeling teenage girls mainly want to see someone who fits a pretty stereotypical image of “hot” and also “cool,” so they can imagine themselves in that girl’s place. And Jordin doesn’t have that, either in looks or in behavior. She’s a pretty version of Everywoman, in a lot of ways, I think, but I don’t believe that’s what most teen girls are looking for when they go to a pop concert. Not that there aren’t any who will appreciate Jordin’s image. But I don’t see her fitting the mainstream fantasy desires of that group. That image doesn’t matter so much when it comes to radio singles, but on tour I would bet it does. Think she’s going to have to find some other ways to use her fine musical talent.

  7. Shouldnt she still be drawing from her idol fan base though?

    The initial debut week numbers for her first cd showed that she didn’t have a large AI fanbase. That’s really not surprising based on the type of music that she’s releasing, and the fact that she seemed to come out of nowhere during the final weeks of her season to win, which made it harder for her to buildup a loyal and big base.

    Plus, idol fans tend to vanish by a substantial amount with the release of the second album, just look at Archie’s numbers, and pretty much everyone else, that’s why it’s so important for these people to create a musical identity, and attract people on the basis of their music. Jordin can’t be labeled a singles seller, since her album continued to sell very well as the singles did well, but I think the problem was that each single seemed to paint her as a very different singer. Tattoo showed her to be a bubble gum pop singer, No Air showed her to be an adult r&b singer, and One Step was more adult contemporary. People may have liked all three songs, but they didn’t know who she was, or what to expect from her.

  8. The initial debut week numbers for her first cd showed that she didn’t have a large AI fanbase.

    ohhh ok didn’t know that….thanks for the info :)

  9. Jordin had a small Idol fan base and was expected to be a bust selling albums. Her debut album going platinum was a big surprise.The music biz is very weird. People can sell millions of downloads but not many albums. Ditto for selling singles and not filling venues. Plus the Pop genre is the most fickle of all. And then the Idol law of diminishing returns kicks in for Jordin.

    Right now the Idol brand is really depending on Carrie to keep it golden.

  10. Jordin had a small Idol fan base and was expected to be a bust selling albums.

    Why was she expected to be a bust? AI fans aren’t the only ones who buy albums, and Carrie, Daughtry, Kelly have been successful not because the have big AI fanbases, but because they were able to extend their reach beyond just AI fans. I think that’s what happened with Jordin’s first album, even though AI fans didn’t support it in large numbers, as she released more singles she attracted people from outside of the AI bubble.

  11. Finally have single stats

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2010/10/idol-track-sales-adam-lambert-daughtry-carrie-underwood-1/1

    Adam Lambert, If I Had You (30,000, -9%, 544,000 total)
    Daughtry, September (20,000, 0 change, 244,000)
    Carrie Underwood, Mama’s Song (11,000, +8%, 106,000)
    Carrie Underwood, Undo It (9,000, -13%, 856,000)
    Carrie Underwood, Cowboy Casanova (4,000, -6%, 1.496 million)
    Carrie Underwood, Temporary Home (3,000, -4%, 593,000)

  12. Wow Carrie and Adam both are doing well with their concerts. I can see this as I think the are both great live performers. (Very different but both great) Kris is doing well and The So You Think You can Dance tour is doing respectably. Actually better then I thought they would. I love them but I don’t really see dancing in this financial climate being a big draw. This doesn’t take away that the dancers are all awesome.

    I am very surprised for We are The Fallen-It maybe be simply the area they performed wasn’t a big fan area. Heck they might not even be known in that area. I can’t see them not putting on a great show. To me that is not the reason for the weak sales.

    Jordin- I think she is someone who is a great radio artist but live doesn’t generate the same commitment. I always felt she has a powerful voice and is one of the nicest people on the planet but just lacks stage presence when she performs. I am usually a visual fan. I like seeing my artist perform but I have to say Jordin is one artist I prefer just listening to on the radio or my I pod not at a concert. Its not that she does anything wrong she just is missing that extra something while preforming live. I hope it gets better for her.

  13. Right now the Idol brand is really depending on Carrie to keep it golden.

    I sort of disagree with you. You got Daughty, Adam, Kelly, Jennifer Hudson and Fantasia. Plus you got Cook coming up I really do believe he will do well. I am not fully counting out David A. I think his newest album is not a good representation of what he is capable of but I don’t think it means he is dead in the water either. There is still the Season 9 folks. You never know one of them could click with the audience out there and surprise us all. I don’t think they have to all be super super stars on the same caliber of Carrie but the ones I mentioned all are doing well to keep the Idol Brand alive. On the other hand to have all the performers they have had and there being only a small amount of successful (Not superstar status successful) is not good percentages. But I think there is more then Carrie to keep the Branding alive.

  14. Kris isn’t doing well

    My memory may be faulty, but I think this is only the second stat that we’ve gotten about one of Kris’ solo shows. So, I don’t know if we can come to any conclusions about how well his shows did.

    Jordin- I think she is someone who is a great radio artist but live doesn’t generate the same commitment.

    This was Jordin’s first solo tour, and it came at a time where she didn’t have a song on the radio, and she didn’t have one, and definitely not three, press conferences announcing/promoting her tour.

  15. S6 was considered a meh season for Idol. Very similiar to S9 and folks expected Jordin to sell even less albums than Taylor Hicks. I think her first week’s sales were 1/2 his. But she had two huge Pop hits and went platinum over the course of a year. She expanded past her small Idol fan base. Unfortunately, pop is a very fickle genre and she hasn’t had a huge hit in awhile. And obviously her hard core fan base is still small.

  16. Summary statistics for the current leg of Carrie’s Play On Tour:

    Number of shows: 10
    Total gross: $3,946,691
    82,850 attendance/84,528 capacity
    98.0% capacity
    Average gross: $394,669
    Average attendance: 8,285
    Average capacity: 8,453
    Average ticket price: $47.64

    Cumulative statistics for 2010 Play On Tour:

    Number of shows: 63
    Total gross: $22,262,203
    454,830 attendance/469,521 capacity
    96.9% capacity
    Average gross: $353,368
    Average attendance: 7,220
    Average capacity: 7,453
    Average ticket price: $48.95

    This doesn’t include Carrie’s summer concerts or Carrie’s show at the Hollywood Bowl.

  17. Way to go Carrie! She’s just a machine. A money making machine.

    And add my OUCH to those numbers for Jordin and We Are The Fallen.

    Also, good to see a Kris concert number, and that this time, it’s a decent number.

  18. As successful as she may be, Carrie is absolutely not the only person keeping the “Idol brand” alive.

  19. Elliegrll:
    10/14/2010 at 10:03 am

    Kris isn’t doing well

    My memory may be faulty, but I think this is only the second stat that we’ve gotten about one of Kris’ solo shows. So, I don’t know if we can come to any conclusions about how well his shows did.

    Oops that was a huge typo I meant to say Kris IS doing well. Oh jeez…thanks for bringing this to my attention. I really think he is doing very well 74% is not bad at all.

  20. Wow Carrie and Adam both are doing well with their concerts. I can see this as I think the are both great live performers. (Very different but both great) Kris isn’t doing well

    I’m not the biggest Kris fan but why would selling almost 900 tickets in a venue that can hold 1200 and is not in a high population center be anything to be bothered by.

    Seems more than respectable to me for that particular concert. Danny played that same place a month later. Sometimes he sells more, sometimes less but I wouldn’t be in any way disappointed with that type of result at the Harrah’s club.

    Not a huge Carrie fan either, but that’s great both as an AI graduate and as a female solo country artist that her shows are selling so well in bigger venues. Not that easy to do.

    ETA:

    Oops that was a huge typo I meant to say Kris IS doing well.

    oh, huge nvm then on the first part ;)

  21. Does someone out there know the hardcores of touring? I do remember reading that the breakeven point for live shows was typically at something like 60% capacity? Am I remembering that right? I know there is some percentage involved but I don’t know what it is exactly. Anyway, once you hit that mark everything past that is supposed to be profit… I think. In that light, Kris probably did fine for that show.

    Carrie is right now the only superstar, and since there is a perception out there by some that Idol was supposed to create superstars, she would be the only one carrying the torch. But I do agree that there are many AI alum who have successful careers and that is important to the overall Idol brand.

  22. I didn’t say Carrie is the only one keeping the Idol brand alive.
    This is what I meant:

    Carrie is right now the only superstar, and since there is a perception out there by some that Idol was supposed to create superstars, she would be the only one carrying the torch.

    There are def other past superstars that Idol produced and current Idols having successful careers. I love Kelly Clarkson for example but her career in Pop is not what it was.

  23. The Knitting Factory had a Michael Johns/Brooke White concert and the attendance was less then 70 people, but Cook played there and it was sold out. I guess Reno live music goers are a fickle bunch. Saving Abel was on the bill with We are the Fallen. They receive a lot of radio play in my neck of the woods. But I am no where near Reno.

  24. I feel like the state of the industry being what it is, it solidifies the Idol brand enough these days if it can discover solid performers with longevity whether or not they’re superstars. Kelly, Daughtry, and Jennifer Hudson all have had superstar eras one way or the other and you’ve got people like Fantasia and Kellie Pickler who’ve lasted and IMHO they all enhance the Idol brand. I don’t think the Idol brand can survive on any one person no matter what level they may have reached because the Idol brand needs constant reinforcement. Especially these days when the conventional wisdom is the show’s peaked as a platform to discover new talent and as a TV show.

  25. ^I agree with most of what you said. I think the Idol producing superstar thing is dead anyone. The new mantra is Idols achieving some success usually w/some Top 40 hits. It’s a new era and we’ll see how it works w/o Simon.

  26. Yikes that Jordin number. Yeah, IA that she just doesn’t pull the committed fanbase for live, solo performances. Seguing into broadway, or even opening for other artists are definitely better moves imo.

    It looks like the SYTYCD tour had a really erratic history – doing really well in some places, and not at all in others.

    The Kris number seems fine. And Yay for Adam! \o/

  27. Oh, and yay for IIHY still selling so strong!! I wish we kept getting the numbers for WWFM though. Oh wells.

  28. for season 9 i think siobhan have powerful longetivity career and casey maybe lee.siobhan have strong fanbase inside and will be outside,because some people love hard rock metal.

  29. Another interesting thing I noticed about Carrie’s concerts – she didn’t really charge a high amount for tickets – if it only averaged about $47. I think charging too much got a lot of performers in trouble this summer, and contributed to poor sales for others.

    Rihanna and Kesha come to mind. I remember they were playing the same place at the Borgata that Adam was playing, and while he sold out with an average of like $40/50 tickets, Rihanna was charging like over $100 per ticket, and had trouble selling. People just aren’t willing to fork over that amount of money for most acts.

  30. That pricing for Jordin’s concert seems weird. $64 and $11.50? I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t sell many $64 tickets. I wonder how many were for sale at each price?

  31. Mary102: Another interesting thing I noticed about Carrie’s concerts – she didn’t really charge a high amount for tickets – if it only averaged about $47. I think charging too much got a lot of performers in trouble this summer, and contributed to poor sales for others.

    Lots of industry people have said so many times that when you’re trying to get people to come to your shows, you can’t make them feel like you’re trying to take their last cent. That goes even more when you’re a building live act which Carrie still is and for anybody who’s new. In fact in one of Bob Lefsetz’s blogs he pointed out how Carrie’s got all these #1 hits and all that but her top ticket price is still under $60 and he said that’s the right thing to do. His point was something like if you want fans to buy into you then you’ve got to charge less than you can.

    Carrie’s pricing for most shows is a top ticket price between $50 and $56, a 2nd tier between $40 and $46, and a 3rd tier between $30 and $36. Floor and most lower level seats usually go for the top ticket price, then the 2nd tier is for the upper level sides or the front part of the whole upper level, and the 3rd tier is for the upper level back or the back rows of the upper level. It’s pretty much the same pricing as for her 2008 tour for Carnival Ride except there’s probably more seats in that top price range.

    Live Nation had most of the underperforming tours this summer including AI, Lilith Fair, and the Rihanna/Ke$ha tour and ITA a big reason was that their ticket prices were way too high.

  32. I feel like the state of the industry being what it is, it solidifies the Idol brand enough these days if it can discover solid performers with longevity whether or not they’re superstars. Kelly, Daughtry, and Jennifer Hudson all have had superstar eras one way or the other and you’ve got people like Fantasia and Kellie Pickler who’ve lasted and IMHO they all enhance the Idol brand.

    This is a great point. Everyone has their own idea of what a superstar is, but idol has really accomplished something by finding people who are not one hit (album) wonders, and who can continue to work in this industry. That’s more important than appearing in a lot of magazines, which doesn’t happen a lot for Carrie, Daughtry or Kelly.

  33. Live Nation had most of the underperforming tours this summer including AI, Lilith Fair, and the Rihanna/Ke$ha tour and ITA a big reason was that their ticket prices were way too high.

    IA with everything you said. The industry has been price gauging for years in many different ways, not just touring IMO. Trying to charge more and more for less and less is a big part of how the industry got in this mess in the first place. But they never seem to see it that way. Ugh.

    I think the touring industry will get the point now, though. LOL

  34. Carrie is right now the only superstar, and since there is a perception out there by some that Idol was supposed to create superstars, she would be the only one carrying the torch.
    There are def other past superstars that Idol produced and current Idols having successful careers. I love Kelly Clarkson for example but her career in Pop is not what it was.

    Personally, I don’t think Idol has produced any true superstars yet. I think she’s extremely successful, but so aren’t alot of other artists. It doesn’t mean they are superstars. Of course, everyone has their own definition of what that word means. ;-)

  35. Sometimes I feel like Carrie’s success is a bit of a blessing and a curse for idol. It is great that they have a star that is so dominant in her genre, and has won so many awards. Really though, Idol kind of lucked into Carrie. She is the only idol who I think could have had a huge career without the support of idol. She just has the right combination of relevance, talent, and looks. It is kind of unrealistic to expect the other idols to compete with her level of success, so even when the other idols are being successful it seems like they aren’t doing good enough for being off idol.

  36. Personally, I don’t think Idol has produced any true superstars yet. I think she’s extremely successful, but so aren’t alot of other artists. It doesn’t mean they are superstars. Of course, everyone has their own definition of what that word means.

    How is she not a Super Star? She is one of the few acts left that can sell well past a million cds, every song of hers races up the country charts, her tour is one of the best attended this summer, she has won a grammy every year off idol since the first year she was eligible. I think people like to downplay her success sometimes, but she along with Taylor Swift are THE top female country artists, and she has been for several years now so it isn’t some flash in the pan.

  37. Yeah, I guess you can have a lot of definitions of a superstar, but to me when every song you release still goes to #1 on the country charts 4 albums in, and every album you release is one of top county albums for that year (if not THE top country album), when you headline big tours with other big country acts opening for you, when you are on the cover of mainstream women’s magazines regularly, when you host or co-host practically every major country awards show, you win Grammys for waking up in the morning, and when you get your own freaking Christmas special… LOL… I gotta call you something other than a regular star. :D

    She’s basically the country version of Beyonce. LOL. Only her track record in country is better than Beyonce’s in R&B/pop.

    It is kind of unrealistic to expect the other idols to compete with her level of success, so even when the other idols are being successful it seems like they aren’t doing good enough for being off idol.

    Yeah, I agree. The thing is, as someone pointed out a while back, its not like any one label has a track record of producing a Carrie every year like clockwork. Idol probably has a better success rate that most labels in finding people who can turn a profit.

  38. How is she not a Super Star? She is one of the few acts left that can sell well past a million cds, every song of hers races up the country charts, her tour is one of the best attended this summer, she has won a grammy every year off idol since the first year she was eligible. I think people like to downplay her success sometimes, but she along with Taylor Swift are THE top female country artists, and she has been for several years now so it isn’t some flash in the pan.

    This is semi related, yesterday Rodney Ho wrote a piece about Carrie’s current song, and how it might be the first song that she has released that won’t become a hit. http://blogs.ajc.com/american-idol-blog/2010/10/13/carrie-underwoods-mamas-song-first-radio-fail/

    He has a great quote from a former PD that shows that the labels play a major role in how high songs go up the radio charts.

    On the Carrie single,…I’m sure the Arista promo team will keep that song moving up the chart well beyond #19. Carrie is a priority and the label will not let that finish less than top 10. I think the strength of the song in terms of her previous efforts is a bit weaker. Not taking anything away from her current song, it’s pretty good. But in comparison to what she’s done before this one doesn’t compete with her previous efforts. Once you start delivering monster hits the expectation from the fans is that you’ll do that every time. It happens to all artists, Carrie’s no exception. Won’t affect her career a bit.

  39. Carrie is a country superstar, if not an overall music superstar. She might not be consistently be able to crossover into different genres or draw tons of fans who wouldn’t consider themselves “typical” country music fans, but in her genre, anyway, she’s is a superstar

  40. Let’s hope Lee’s and Kris’s new singles show up on this chart quickly, because this is depressing.

    POP (below #50)

    74 80 KRIS ALLEN The Truth f/Pat Monahan 103 128 -25 0.474
    73 95 DAVID ARCHULETA Something ‘Bout Love 70 130 -60 0.215
    96 102 DAVID ARCHULETA Elevator 57 60 -3 0.135
    135 128 KRIS ALLEN Heartless 30 28 2 0.261
    156 194 ANOOP DESAI All Is Fair (Crazy Love) 11 18 -7 0.013

  41. Carrie is a country superstar, if not an overall music superstar. She might not be consistently be able to crossover into different genres or draw tons of fans who wouldn’t consider themselves “typical” country music fans, but in her genre, anyway, she’s is a superstar

    I have a bit of a different perspective on this. And I’m not saying this to disagree with you or anyone else, I’m just thinking aloud here.

    The thing to me is, there are a lot of assumptions attached to pop superstardom. Pop is supposed to be “mainstream” meaning that it in theory reaches the widest cross section of people… or something. If one is a superstar in pop you need no qualifiers, because the assumption is that most people who pay attention to current music will know who you are. But is that really true?

    Like, of course there is no one style of music that will appeal to everyone. But with markets like country and R&B/Hiphop… those are big markets. They are not half the size of pop. They are probably about the same size or at most 3/4 in selling power (albums, singles, concert tickets)… especially country. And there is not a lot of crossover between them. In some really big sections of the nation, country IS mainstream music.

    R&B/hip-hop has some crossover with pop, but not as much as people assume. There are folks that are red hot in R&B/Hiphop that most people on this board couldn’t name. And there are people in pop that if I went to my R&B loving family renuion and mentioned, they would not have a clue who I was talking about. LOL. I literally know tons of people who had no idea who Taylor Swift was until Kanye West dissed her at the awards last year.

    I think the difference is in who the mainstream media covers. Pop stars get a lot more press, and are treated as if they are so much more famous than people in other genres so that it seems like they are, despite the fact that maybe half the population of 15-25 year olds in this country don’t even listen to them. And that population rises a whole lot as you go up the age brackets.

    Some people really do cross genres (Taylor, Rhianna, Beyonce, etc) so I get that, but there are some who don’t – like Kelly’s big “Breakaway” era – but get the same superstar treatment. it is kind of odd to me.

    And I know there are some pop stars that are international, so perhaps that is a factor? But that has only been something the industry has cared about for the last few years or so, and what I’m talking about goes back further. I don’t know. But there is something odd about saying Kenny Chesney is not a superstar but Miley Cyrus is. I’ve heard that kind of thing said before. Its just wrong somehow.

  42. Junior:
    10/14/2010 at 11:37 am

    That pricing for Jordin’s concert seems weird. $64 and $11.50? I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t sell many $64 tickets. I wonder how many were for sale at each price?

    Looks like 24 people paid $64 — hope they got VIP seats and free drinks!

  43. Great box-office figures for Carrie – she was clearly one of the best prospects in her time on Idol that had artistic and commercial longevity. I thought that too, in different ways, of Kellie P and even Siobhan although the latter seems very headstrong about doing things her way. We’ll see how things pan out for all 3.

    I emphasize box-office, as I get quite irritated at the term “sold-out” as anyone can sellout if you choose appropriate venues and pricing and/or restrict seating at the outset. I like the way some artists just let a full arena or amphitheater be available to maximize box-office and don’t care at the screaming “not sold-out” headlines. Why should they when they are laughing themselves to the bank? Favorable side effects include that anyone who wants a ticket can get one and the scalpers aren’t happy – they thrive on restricted sale concerts.

    Box-office takings are all that matters and that’s reflected in how Billboard rank the concerts.

  44. I literally know tons of people who had no idea who Taylor Swift was until Kanye West dissed her at the awards last year.

    Damn Kanye.. grr

    I’m not a country fan, but Carrie is a money and hit making machine and gorgeous to boot. She’s a star.

  45. Elliegrll: This is semi related, yesterday Rodney Ho wrote a piece about Carrie’s current song, and how it might be the first song that she has released that won’t become a hit. http://blogs.ajc.com/american-idol-blog/2010/10/13/carrie-underwoods-mamas-song-first-radio-fail/

    Rodney Ho also admitted in his comments that his blog was based on a faulty premise:

    Fact Check provided some impressive stats to back up his claim that “Mama’s Song” isn’t doing much worse than her other three ballads at this stage of the game. I was making an observation based on my faulty memory because I didn’t recall those others moving up as slowly. At No. 14 on Billboard week eight, it’s slightly behind the other three ballads. Her song is being played more on bigger stations, which provides more audience impressions, thus the higher ranking.

    But numbers don’t lie and you brought up some very valid points. My entire blog entry’s premise may have been faulty from that perspective.

    The numbers show that after 8 weeks Mama’s Song is pretty much even with Carrie’s ballads like Temporary Home, Just A Dream, and I Told You So. It’s all the way up at #14 on Billboard in just 8 weeks (the other ballads were #12 and #13 after 8 weeks) and this guy was writing about it possibly being a flop. It says more about the crazy expectations on Carrie than anything else and probably also how people are waiting to pounce on anything of hers that could be seen as a “failure”.

    Following the country charts and knowing that it’s stuffed with lead singles from all the big country acts with albums coming out, I’m surprised Mama’s Song’s already moved up as fast as it has. But now it’s hit that point where it’s going to be harder moving up. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mama’s Song doesn’t hit #1 but knowing there’s people out there waiting to write all about it makes me hope against hope it does well enough.

  46. And I know there are some pop stars that are international, so perhaps that is a factor? But that has only been something the industry has cared about for the last few years or so, and what I’m talking about goes back further. I don’t know. But there is something odd about saying Kenny Chesney is not a superstar but Miley Cyrus is. I’ve heard that kind of thing said before. Its just wrong somehow.

    I think that Carrie has transitioned from “country star” to mainstream celebrity.

    But using US recorded music sales as a measure of popularity can be very deceptive. The popularity of country stars vs. rock, pop, urban/hip-hop stars is overstated if you only look at US sales of recorded music.

    There are a number of attempts underway to build a new music popularity chart — The Ultimate Chart is the best aggregate US chart so far and Carrie is on it:

    This week’s artist chart —

    Carrie #83 LW #82
    Adam #94 LW #74

    No other Idol alums are on the chart.
    Link to chart: http://www.ultimatechart.com/#/artists?page=10

    1. The amount of legal internet music use is way up — except for Country music. So, for example, Kelly Clarkson is much more popular than Carrie if you look at streaming media views and video views. IMO popularity should consider how people choose to get the music they listen to. 12% of Swedes subscribe to Spotify. CDs are the 21st century equivalent of sheet music — probably will not vanish but will continue to decline over the next few years.

    2. The US Market is shrinking: As the US has declined in its share of the world music market — from a peak of over 40% now to below 25%, selling internationally is becoming essential. But very little Country music is sold outside on North America and Australia. And there is little sign that EU and most Asia-Pacific audiences have any interest in Country music.

    3. US Country Music has lagged in the impact of piracy on sales but is now declining and Country fans are becoming pirates, too. Since there is no international market for Country music, the pirate sites don’t have much of it. Country fans were less likely to download legal or illegal music, less likely to have high-speed internet access and less aware of how to download free music.

  47. girlygirl:
    10/14/2010 at 12:22 pm
    Carrie is a country superstar, if not an overall music superstar. She might not be consistently be able to crossover into different genres or draw tons of fans who wouldn’t consider themselves “typical” country music fans, but in her genre, anyway, she’s is a superstar

    Yeah, of course, superstar depends on how you define it. Does superstar equal Madonna, or Beatles big? Or Justin Timberlake big, or what have you. I agree that Carrie is a big music star, but mostly just in the US. I don’t think she is as well known around the world. Not that that doesn’t equate to her still being a hugely successful star, mind you.

    Just putting it in perspective, though, that if you mention Idol in, say, another part of the world, someone like Kelly or Jordin even might be much better known than Carrie.

  48. Q3, I know country doesn’t sell internationally and I know about different downloading habits across genres, so while I appreciate you taking the time to post the information, that’s not exactly what I was talking about.

    I’m talking about the assumptions that go behind labeling levels of “stardom” across different genres in the US.

    People magazine and Extra and such are not necessarily supposed be covering international stars. LOL. Lets take Idols out of the equation. What do you do with an act like Trey Songz? You get no hotter than him in R&B right now, he is THE heart throb of the moment. He has what is sure to be his second top selling R&B album on the charts. He has multiple hits. And I guarantee you if he repeats that feat for 2 more albums he will be no more a “star” in the eyes of America than Keysha Cole. The same could probably be said for Miranda Lambert or a bunch of other country acts. But their pop equivalents are “stars”. That’s what I mean. It is weird.

    And about the new Ultimate Charts thing – new charts being developed are useful and interesting. I like it. But still, it preferences certain populations as well. What is the demographic most likely to click on videos on the internet? Is that a measure of true popularity really? But if you have that demo you will be higher on that chart. And with R&B/Hip-hop, the music is marketed and consumed by a population that tends, on a whole, to have less money than others. So if you go by money, their stars are not “stars”. See? There really is no perfect way to access it really, I guess.

    I have nothing against international sales, nor am I trying to take anything away from international stars. I know that is a bit of a bone of contention with some of Adam’s fans sometimes. But I’m actually not talking about that right now.

  49. Yeah, of course, superstar depends on how you define it. Does superstar equal Madonna, or Beatles big? Or Justin Timberlake big, or what have you. I agree that Carrie is a big music star, but mostly just in the US. I don’t think she is as well known around the world. Not that that doesn’t equate to her still being a hugely successful star, mind you.

    Just putting it in perspective, though, that if you mention Idol in, say, another part of the world, someone like Kelly or Jordin even might be much better known than Carrie.

    Carrie is a big star in the US, known in Canada. (IMO Taylor Swift is a bigger star — so if Carrie is the Queen, Talyor is the Princess of Country Music.)

    And Adam and Daughty are both more famous outside the US than Carrie. But US Country Stars rarely have much in the way of international fans.

    Even Taylor Swift has had limited sales outside of US, Canada, Australia and UK. Only one hit single in the UK “Love Story”, #2 and was certified Gold in the UK. She has a Silver and a Platinum album in the UK though. But she is bigger internationally than Carrie.

    In comparison, Carrie has no singles that have charted outside of US and Canada. Play on peaked at #80 Australia, #91 in Ireland and #93 in the UK. Here other albums did not chart outside North America. (From Wiki, and many not be right but certainly directionally correct. I do not have enough interest to look this all up.)

  50. MJ I wasn’t sure were to post this if it’s in the wrong thread am sorry. idolsnow
    KRIS ALLEN’s “Alright With Me” was sent to radio by Jive Records just after 7 PM EDT last night.

  51. My thing about Carrie and superstardom (especially global superstardom and even arguably US superstardom) is I don’t think superstardom fits with Carrie doing more traditional country music and refusing to remix her songs. Therefore far as I’m concerned superstardom can go suck it ;)

  52. LMAO @ windmills!

    Well, like I said, I’m only talking about the US conceptions of it’s stars. But yeah, if it takes Carrie getting crossover hits for her to be a “superstar” in the US then I guess it ain’t gonna happen! But does that mean Lady Antebellum are bigger stars than Carrie? :D That seems so weird.

    ETA: in response to Q3’s post below:

    Thank you for clarifying your intentions!

    But I just do not see US Celebrity in a vacuum. Carrie may be big in the US but if she was successful in other countries she would be a bigger celebrity in the US. International sales and celebrity matter for everything from movies and television to product endorsements.

    Yeah, I get it. But that doesn’t seem off to you? Remember, I am not talking about endorsements, I am talking about media coverage and overall perceptions. So David Hasselhoff deserves more media than Jon Stewart? LOL. Okay, that’s odd, but that’s the only person I can think of right now. Heh. I’m not “seeing it in a vacuum”. I am questioning it. And my point is… this happens with pop stars that are not international as well. You can be great in your genre, but if you don’t have a pop hit, you are lacking true “stardom” somehow. But if you are a pop star that crosses over to nowhere but pop, you are still a “star” not lacking anything.

  53. tinawina:
    10/14/2010 at 2:01 pm

    Q3, I know country doesn’t sell internationally and I know about different downloading habits across genres, so while I appreciate you taking the time to post the information, that’s not exactly what I was talking about.

    I’m talking about the assumptions that go behind labeling levels of “stardom” across different genres in the US.

    …..

    I have nothing against international sales, nor am I trying to take anything away from international stars. I know that is a bit of a bone of contention with some of Adam’s fans sometimes. But I’m actually not talking about that right now.

    I understood your original post — and thought you made an excellent and valid point about how we tend to view genres differently relative to popular music — for example, IMO AC artists and Country artists have a difficult time getting fair treatment as popular artists — vs. Pop, Hip Hop, Urban and Rock artists.

    But I just do not see US Celebrity in a vacuum. Carrie may be big in the US but if she was successful in other countries she would be a bigger celebrity in the US. International sales and celebrity matter for everything from movies and television to product endorsements.

    And really I was not thinking about Adam when posted my comment (yes, that is possible.) I was thinking about the unusual position that US Country artists are in. The has never been a global music star who was a country artist. Elvis is the closest but his global fame was built on rock and roll music. Madonna, MJ, Prince, Pink, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Eminem, etc. were all pop/rock/R&B/hip hop artists.

    For recent artists, the best I can come up with is Shania Twain (Canadian, not American). “Up” was #1 in Germany and Platinum in the EU. But that album is not really a Country album, it is a Pop album and the Hindi Filmi version has nothing to do with US Country music.

    Carrie certainly could put out a Country-Pop or Pop album and might have a great shot of crossing over and international sales BUT she would risk alienating her current Country fans.

    ETA: Adding a mention of Dolly Pardon — over 100 million albums sold, and famous all over the world. Garth Brooks charted in Norway.

  54. tinawina:
    10/14/2010 at 2:35 pm

    LMAO @ windmills!

    Well, like I said, I’m only talking about the US conceptions of it’s stars. But yeah, if it takes Carrie getting crossover hits for her to be a “superstar” in the US then I guess it ain’t gonna happen! But does that mean Lady Antebellum are bigger stars than Carrie? :D That seems so weird.

    If we are measuring by sales — LA “Need You Now” outsold “Play On” even in the US — so there is a good argument they are bigger. Zac Brown Band also outsold Carrie and many other country artists have outsold her in the past couple of years. Country is just as competitive as any other genre.

  55. But using US recorded music sales as a measure of popularity can be very deceptive. The popularity of country stars vs. rock, pop, urban/hip-hop stars is overstated if you only look at US sales of recorded music.

    How can we judge Carrie’s popularity in other countries if neither she nor her songs are promoted or marketed to other countries? Just like with pop, Sony has tried to get Carrie to make some changes so that her music would appeal to people in other countries, but she has refused.

    Considering the opportunities that she’s been given, as well as her sales, I’d say that Carrie is a superstar by any standards, country or otherwise. Not only is she selling albums, she has also been a very good singles seller, and there are very few artist in any genre who can match her album numbers.

  56. This debate reminds me of a quote from one of my favourite books:

    “I am no longer surprised at your knowing only six accomplished women. I rather wonder now at your knowing any.”

    I think that Carrie is a Superstar. Perhaps not worldwide, but I think most people in North America knows who she is and magazines are forever putting her on the cover. I think that if we cannot classify her as a Superstar, then there aren’t many we can. I’m reminded of how they classify iceburgs. Small ones are bitty-burgs. If Carrie is not a Superstar, most idols are micro-bitty-stars.

  57. Yikes Jordin. Maybe she needs to go the Christian Music route, or similar. Not a diss to Christian Music fans, but just an observation that her image and music seems to lean more towards wholesome/nice/inspirational themes than towards pop’s hot/dance/edgy environment.

  58. If we are measuring by sales — LA “Need You Now” outsold “Play On” even in the US — so there is a good argument they are bigger. Zac Brown Band also outsold Carrie and many other country artists have outsold her in the past couple of years. Country is just as competitive as any other genre.

    Neither of those have her track record though. That’s a bit like saying everyone with a recent album who outsold Beyonce’s latest is more famous than her, even though she’s been at the top of the charts for 10 years.

  59. tinawina: But does that mean Lady Antebellum are bigger stars than Carrie? :D That seems so weird.

    If they follow up with more crossover smashes then yes, they will be bigger stars just like Taylor Swift is a bigger star. They haven’t sent anything else from their current album to other formats yet (they actually went back to their debut album with I Run To You which flopped on pop but did OK on HAC). I can see Lady A trying again with Hello World though which is their current single at country and is a HAC song through and through (it’s not country at all unless you count the church reference, which IMO doesn’t qualify it). I doubt it would be a CHR smash though.

    Edit: ITA this is built up over time. Too early to tell on Lady A IMO. Taylor’s had crossover hits with 3 albums and she’s hit that inescapability point where you know somebody’s a superstar.

    Q3: Zac Brown Band also outsold Carrie and many other country artists have outsold her in the past couple of years.

    ZBB’s debut The Foundation has been out a year longer than Play On and has outsold it. They are on their 2nd album which has already sold 267k and will easily go platinum but how far beyond that we don’t know so we don’t know if it will outsell Play On. Lady A’s current album has outsold Play On but their debut album hasn’t. Taylor Swift’s obviously outselling Carrie and I’m sure her upcoming album will outsell Play On. There are others who may be ahead on weekly charts for a while but nobody else in country music has been getting total sales higher than Carrie’s so that part of your comment (“many other country artists have outsold”) is misleading if not outright wrong.

  60. Seriously guys please I can’t eat anymore popcorn..I ate to much yesterday..*grabs another handfull*

  61. “I am no longer surprised at your knowing only six accomplished women. I rather wonder now at your knowing any.”

    Ah, Miss Elizabeth Bennet. My heroine. (Jennifer Ehle rules, btw. I watch it every Christmas Day)

    Carrie is a superstar. I’m not a fan of country or of her music, but anyone can see that. Girl’s everywhere.

    I do agree with whomever said that Carrie’s success makes it hard for any other Idols to achieve that level of perceived success in their genres. She’s kind of an outlier in the group and makes all the other many Idols doing well in their careers appear to never quite measure up. It’s too bad – so many deserve so much credit that they’re never really given because they’re always falling short of Simon’s idea of success (Pop Supastah). The kind of dominance Carrie has in her genre is a pretty unrealistic yardstick to use to measure the others’ success.

    I also continue to be unpersuaded that I should care one whit about International sales, since that applies to only a few Idols whether by their own choice or their label’s. But that’s just me. I care what’s going on in the US market.

  62. Two things:

    1). Is the SYTYCD tour getting more than the AI did? The percentages just seem higher to me.

    2). I admire Carrie for not changing her style to please everyone. She is country and I respect her decision to stick to the genre that has made her so famous. She is a HUGE superstar in country music.

  63. Seriously guys please I can’t eat anymore popcorn..I ate to much yesterday..*grabs another handfull*

    LOL.
    My mind works in a weird way… I started to wonder what is bigger than a superstar? Is it a hyperstar?

  64. kidding: My mind works in a weird way… I started to wonder what is bigger than a superstar? Is it a hyperstar?

    It’s obvs a hyperburg! Kirsten I think you should start monitoring the bittyburg charts and posting them here!

    LoveDaRocker: Yikes Jordin. Maybe she needs to go the Christian Music route, or similar. Not a diss to Christian Music fans, but just an observation that her image and music seems to lean more towards wholesome/nice/inspirational themes than towards pop’s hot/dance/edgy environment.

    Jordin also has legit connections into that community too. She’s worked with Michael W. Smith and she sang with Natalie Grant at the Dove Awards this year. It’s a move I can see her making eventually and it’d certainly be a way for her to get an album out there if she ever lost her pop deal.

  65. Does anyone know if a song can be released to iTunes as a single without any sort of edit? I’m hearing conflicting information on that as a result of some chatter on single artwork for AWM.

  66. Does anyone know if a song can be released to iTunes as a single without any sort of edit? I’m hearing conflicting information on that as a result of some chatter on single artwork for AWM.

    I don’t know why a label would go through the trouble to release new artwork if the song can just be purchased by buying it off of the album page. Besides, I think it’s better if people buy it from that page, because they might take the time to sample and buy some of the other songs, or the entire album. For some, it could be the first time that they realize that Kris sings LLWD.

  67. windmills: Therefore far as I’m concerned superstardom can go suck it ;)

    That really made me laugh out loud! :)

    No matter anyone’s definition of superstar, there’s no denying that Carrie is one. But I don’t see international superstardom for Carrie at all only because there doesn’t seem to be any real interest from her or her camp to pursue that. Especially now that she’s just recently married, in addition to the fact that her faith is very prevalant in some of her hit songs (which doesn’t go over well in some parts of the world) and to windmills point, that she won’t remix (Taylor Swift is known more as a pop star in the international community). And it’s really too bad because even with absolutely no promotion outside of Canada and the US, she has many international fans, some who are part of her fanclub and some who have even made the trip overseas just to see her perform live.

    As far as the rest of the idols I agree with some here, that they should never be compared with Carrie. Carrie was a fluke for Idol, and it shouldn’t diminish the real success that many of the other idols have had.

    I think one of the biggest problems for Idol is that the ability to sing is no longer coveted. Even Lady Gaga, who can actually sing, is known more for her over-the-top theatrics than for her singing ability. Sad to think that most of these Idols can sing circles around most of the top acts out there today.

  68. My memory may be faulty, but I think this is only the second stat that we’ve gotten about one of Kris’ solo shows. So, I don’t know if we can come to any conclusions about how well his shows did.

    Really? I thought we had quite a few of Kris’s solo stats. But my memory may be faulty too. Does anyone else remember?

    Either way, I think the above concert is great for him.

  69. Miley Cyrus is a superstar because she started out with a TV series and made at least one movie from that TV series (and did she have a concert movie also?). Whether she can sustain post-Hannah Montana stardom is a whole other question, but her stardom is legitimate, even if it doesn’t directly come from pop music.

    Carrie Underwood had a crossover hit. “Before He Cheats” has to have been a crossover hit, because I still hear it regularly on the radio, and I don’t have any country music stations set in my car (the only place I listen to the radio). Also, she had a brush with celebrity when she dated Tony Romo. So she has three pathways to stardom- Idol, a crossover hit song, and a romance with the quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys.

    Tony Romo, I think, is still single, thus leaving him available to date Adam, who could then become a superstar just like Carrie!

  70. chearts 77 -looks like SYTYCD did a better job of estimating their audience size and booked into smaller venues than Livenation booked for the Idol Tour.That effects percentages. In Knoxville the Idols were at Thompson Boling Arena, which holds 25,000. There were a lot of people there, but obviously not full.
    I just saw on twitter that Sweet Serendipity goes for radio adds Oct. 25.
    Some of the stations in California, including San Diego, have said they will start playing it this week. I saw another radio station tweet (Mix 104.9 in Santa Rosa)announcing they would play new music from Lee and Kris.

  71. I see the HAC adds date for SS is 10/25. Is there a date for it going to Pop yet?

  72. Tony Romo, I think, is still single, thus leaving him available to date Adam, who could then become a superstar just like Carrie!

    hahaha

  73. Elliegirl:

    Yeah, not necessarily disputing your points. Do you know the answer to the question, though?

    lol to the Tony Romo route to superstardom! Surely there is a superstardom flow chart somewhere that would make these determinations much easier.

  74. It is not a big deal to send new single artwork to iTunes. What iTunes discourages is new tracks with minor edits because the confuse buyers and fragment sales.

    Tinawina:
    10/14/2010 at 2:57 pm

    If we are measuring by sales — LA “Need You Now” outsold “Play On” even in the US — so there is a good argument they are bigger. Zac Brown Band also outsold Carrie and many other country artists have outsold her in the past couple of years. Country is just as competitive as any other genre.

    Neither of those have her track record though. That’s a bit like saying everyone with a recent album who outsold Beyonce’s latest is more famous than her, even though she’s been at the top of the charts for 10 years.

    Yep, my point exactly. Recorded music sales alone is not a good measure of popularity or level of stardom.

    I think that Carrie is a Superstar. Perhaps not worldwide, but I think most people in North America knows who she is and magazines are forever putting her on the cover. I think that if we cannot classify her as a Superstar, then there aren’t many we can. I’m reminded of how they classify iceburgs. Small ones are bitty-burgs. If Carrie is not a Superstar, most idols are micro-bitty-stars.

    A superstar is rare — that is what the term refers to and has since it was first used in the modern entertainment industry in the 1920’s Hollywood star system — later expanded to other entertainment. Julia Roberts and Oprah are superstars. They are “bankable”.

    IMO Carrie is a star, there are a few other Idol stars, most Idol alums are not stars. Jason Yeager, Amy Adams, Corey Clark (picked at random from the list of Idol finalists) are not stars. I think that some Idol alums are not even “micro-bitty-stars”.

    And I still believe that Carrie could be a pop superstar if she wanted to be. She would just need to record a country-pop cross-over album. But she should do what she wants, and seems to be doing just fine as it is. Country artists have much longer careers than pop artists, so she may be right in the long run.

  75. jpfan-all I saw on twitter was about HAC. DO songs usually have separate add dates for HAC and Pop? I usually just lurk on the numbers thread- it’s very educational. :)

  76. I consider Carrie a superstar.

    Multiple platinum albums, sold out large venues in the US. Magazine covers everywhere. Too many Grammys, Dove, AMA, CMA, CMT awards etc to count, lol! Alphabet soup!

    I don’t think International status is that important to US superstardom, honestly. JMO.

    Also, Country stars just aren’t huge overseas anyway; pop is king in other countries (I was really sick of it in all the taxi radios when we were in Mexico this summer- and so much of it old pop, like Brittany Spears!) and American Country music just isn’t a huge deal like pop.

  77. Yep, my point exactly. Recorded music sales alone is not a good measure of popularity or level of stardom.

    But Carrie sells singles, albums, concert tickets, merchandise, and has numerous endorsements. She has amazing success on the radio, racking up numerous #1 hits, and Before He Cheats is the 4th longest charting single of all time. She is in the tabloids and has graced the cover of many magazines. The wins the awards based on popularity like the AMA’s, and awards based on merit, like the Grammys. She even got 8 million people to watch her cheesy Christmas special lol. She may not fit your definition of super star, but I am going to have to disagree with you.

  78. I don’t think International status is that important to US superstardom, honestly. JMO.

    I agree. Would you say Peyton Manning or Tom Brady isn’t a super star? Football isn’t very popular outside of this country, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that inside their own country, they are huge celebrities. I would never deny someone like Kylie Minogue was a super star for example, just because she doesn’t have nearly the same success here. Shahrukh Khan is not very well known here in America, but it would be pretty ignorant to act like he isn’t a super star in India for all of his success.

  79. Yep, my point exactly. Recorded music sales alone is not a good measure of popularity or level of stardom.

    I never said it was, so we agree on that!

    But Carrie sells singles, albums, concert tickets, merchandise, and has numerous endorsements. She has amazing success on the radio, racking up numerous #1 hits, and Before He Cheats is the 4th longest charting single of all time. She is in the tabloids and has graced the cover of many magazines. The wins the awards based on popularity like the AMA’s, and awards based on merit, like the Grammys. She even got 8 million people to watch her cheesy Christmas special lol.

    Exactly. She even gets cosmetics endorsements! And it illustrates what I’m talking about! LOL. Can you imagine a pop star with 4 albums worth of all of that ever having to argue that they are a superstar? And they would never have to sell a record in any other nation to earn that respect. But for a country star (or an Urban/Rymthmic radio star) it is still a debate. And I don’t care what anyone says, that is just WEIRD. LOL

    Anyway, this horse is dead and stinkin’. We need new mindless inconsequential things to argue about today. :D

  80. Carrie is probably the last person to sell 7 million albums in the U.S. And she’s still popular enough to warrent an AMA nod which is like the thermometer for who’s hot now. Superstar is a dopey word anyway.

    Carrie is just very, very successful. Is that better. ;)

    Hopefully Lee’s single will do something on the radio. So new numbers to crunch.

  81. Football isn’t very popular outside of this country, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that inside their own country, they are huge celebrities.

    Football is very popular outside of the USA. American football isn’t.

  82. Football is very popular outside of the USA. American football isn’t.

    I’m sorry, but I’m not going to get into this debate with a soccer *scoff* fan.

    Lol, just kidding. Kinda. But American Football is much superior to soccer

  83. But American Football is much superior to soccer

    :D That’s just because Americans don’t dominate in football.

  84. But American Football is much superior to soccer

    Don’t make me even start…

  85. Anyway, this horse is dead and stinkin’. We need new mindless inconsequential things to argue about today. :D

    Ok my vote for quote of the Day! :lol:

  86. If Carrie is not a Superstar, most idols are micro-bitty-stars.

    And this is where I say most idols are lucky to be micro-bitty-stars. Even if you restrict consideration to the US, Carrie is not a superstar in my view. A star most definitely. Even a really big North American star. Michael Jackson was a superstar in the US. Elvis was a superstar in the US. Even in the US she does not approach their level of stardom. By the time someone reaches superstardom in the US, they typically do so outside of the US also. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to have one without the other, but it’s highly unlikely.

    Would you say Peyton Manning or Tom Brady isn’t a super star?

    I would definitely say they aren’t superstars. I recognize Peyton Manning’s name as being a US football player of some historical repute. And Tom Brady might ring a bell on a good day. But I can’t picture either one’s face based upon their name. That makes them huge sports stars, not superstars. If the average, non-sports watching person can’t recall their face, I don’t think they qualify as superstars. Marilyn Monroe? superstar. Bill Gates? Superstar. Tom Brady? Not so much.

  87. jpfan:
    10/14/2010 at 5:36 pm

    Carrie is probably the last person to sell 7 million albums in the U.S. And she’s still popular enough to warrent an AMA nod which is like the thermometer for who’s hot now. Superstar is a dopey word anyway.

    Carrie is just very, very successful. Is that better. ;)

    Hopefully Lee’s single will do something on the radio. So new numbers to crunch.

    ITA that Carrie is hugely successful and few artist will ever see that level of sales or concert success. Particularly in 2010.

    I think Carrie is last artist to release an album that sold 7 million album units in the US.

    Nickelback’s “All the Right Reasons” was released a few weeks earlier in 2005 and has sold over 8 million units in the US. And actually has outsold Carrie since her album was released.

    Taylor Swift is the closest new release — “Fearless” is over 6 million US, over 10 million worldwide and is still selling. But “Fearless” was released in November 2008.

    Usher is the last artist to release a Diamond album in the US — released in 2004 sold 10 million US over 20 million worldwide.

    And Paula is the only Idol Judge to have a 7X Platinum album — 1988 “Forever Your Girl” 7 million US, 12 million worldwide.
    (Could not resist adding Paula!)

    In any case, the days of mega-albums is fading.

  88. The pre-holiday blitz for SuBo’s new album has already begun. I was flipping channels last night and saw her album being offered for pre-order on QVC. She wasn’t there, some guy was–don’t know who, but I heard them play a portion of Hallelujah. Oy! :-)

  89. Disagree with some things said here and agree with others but I’ll pass on this discussion. Were these posted?

    Carrie Underwood Play On 6,688 1,754,483

    13 ARCHULETA*DAVID OTHER SIDE OF DOWN 24,209 999 12 24,226

  90. Carrie has done well, quite obviously. But I bet none of my neighbors could name her, but they would know about Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber, and Katy Perry. I like Carrie, but her media coverage annoys me. My problem, no doubt. I just wish they would stop slicing her in half for magazine covers. That’s just gross and disgusting. She’s pretty and thin, they just don’t have to go there imho.

  91. Carrie has done well, quite obviously. But I bet none of my neighbors could name her, but they would know about Lady Gaga, Justin Beiber, and Katy Perry

    No way. She won a show watched by 30 million people that gets high profile media coverage. She’s sold 11 million albums, and she had high profile relationships with Chace Crawford and Tony Romo. I am sure some of your neighbors have heard of her lol.

  92. If 30 million Americans watch Idol, that means that 275 million do not watch Idol. Many people have little or no awareness of anyone from Idol.

    And 70% of American never listen to country music.

    That means that there are a lot of people in the US who could easily not know who Carrie is.

  93. If 30 million Americans watch Idol, that means that 275 million do not watch Idol. Many people have little or no awareness of anyone from Idol.

    And 70% of American never listen to country music.

    That means that there are a lot of people in the US who could easily not know who Carrie is.

    I would love to know where you got that stat that 70% of Americans never listen to country music.

    And you don’t need to listen to country music to have heard Before He Cheats, since that was one of the biggest songs of 2007. You don’t have to be one of the people who actually watched American Idol to know who won, since every newspaper, news show, talk show, whatever discusses it the next day. Or maybe they saw Carrie at the numerous award shows she was on, or when she won best new artist, or was on How I Met Your Mother, or broke up with Tony Romo. So yes, if you can find someone who has no interest in music, television, sports, or news than yes they maybe haven’t heard of Carrie. I just don’t think there are ” a lot” of people that fit that bill.

  94. I would know nothing about Carrie, were it not for Idol blogs. And there is some country music I love — Willie Nelson, Patsy Cline, Linda Ronstadt, even the Eagles (well, you get the point). So I consider her a star WITHIN HER GENRE! But not a “superstar”.

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