Idol Sales News – Week Ending 11/02/09

Sales numbers for the Billboard Release Date 11/15/2009 after the jump.

Download Numbers
31 Kelly Clarkson “Already Gone” 42, 926 (-8%; lw 46, 824) Total: 616, 505 (31)
33 Carrie Underwood “Cowboy Casanova” 38, 488 (-12%; lw 43, 727) Total: 368, 677 (24)
46 Carrie Underwood “Undo It” 28, 412 (NEW) Total: 28, 412 (NEW)
Jordin Sparks “Battlefield” 18K (-24%) Total: 1.112M
Adam Lambert “Time For Miracles” 12k (-74%) Total: 59K
Kris Allen “Live Like We’re Dying” 10K (3%) Total: 83K
Daughtry “No Surprise” 9K (-18%) Total: 872K
Carrie Underwood “Temporary Home” 7K (-72%) Total: 31K

Please post the numbers as you find them.

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

200 Comments

  1. Airplay before recurrents are removed (increase in audience impressions):
    No. 12 – Kelly Clarkson (+6.3 million) – lw 14
    No. 19 – Carrie Underwood (+2.8 million) – lw 22
    No. 210 – Kris Allen (+1.7 million) – lw 262
    No. 432 – Jordin Sparks (+1.0 million) – lw 638
    — – Adam Lambert (+1.7 million)

    Streaming:
    No. 8 Already Gone

  2. Anticipating the questions.

    The early leaks of download numbers only includes songs in the Top 50 or showing strong gains in the Top 200. We will have to wait until Brian posts his numbers on Idol Chatter before we get all the Idol download numbers.

    Recurrent means songs that have been retired from the chart (either due to length or combination of length and falling ranking). Old songs/albums whatever are retired to give room for new songs. One exception is downloaded songs where songs as old as dirt can chart. Albums do not have that exception and old albums that see a surge in sales end up on the Catalogue chart.

    Yes, Sony can and probably will be reporting the sales for FYE. Since it was just offered through the fansite for three days, it was unlikely to be in the top 50.

  3. First week numbers for recent first post-Idol singles:
    1 David Archuleta ‘Crush’  166,247 (NEW) Total: 166,247 (NEW)
    8 David Cook ‘Light On’  109,035 (NEW) Total: 109,035 (NEW)
    21 Adam Lambert ‘Time For Miracles’  46,507 (NEW) Total: 46,507 (NEW)
    93 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  15,755 (NEW) Total: 15,755 (NEW) ‘“ 3 day sales week

    Second week numbers for recent first post-Idol singles:
    6 David Archuleta ‘Crush’  89,472 (-46%; lw 166,247) Total: 255,719 (1)
    43 David Cook ‘Light On’  30,966 (-72%; lw 109,035) Total: 140,001 (8)
    63 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  23,552 (49%; lw 15,755) Total: 39,307 (93)

  4. Kirsten: Do those figures for airplay (AI) pertain to only one song for the artist, or do they include all the songs that an artist has on the charts?

  5. Kirsten: Do those figures for airplay (AI) pertain to only one song for the artist, or do they include all the songs that an artist has on the charts?

    One song. The guy who leaks doesn’t leak the entire list. Just the ones that he’s interested in. So, for instance, Jordin’s “Battlefield” is higher up on the chart, but it’s falling and not interesting (to him). So, the entry on the list would be for “S.0.S.” If there are multiple interesting songs for an artist, he will tag them with their song names. It is usually pretty obvious which song he’s referring to.

  6. Kirsten, bks also posted Adam’s airplay for FYE:

    — – Adam Lambert (+1.7 million)

  7. Kirsten, bks also posted Adam’s airplay for FYE:

    Oops, I added it to my post. I don’t know what the — means. Maybe outside of the top 1000?

  8. Oops, I added it to my post. I don’t know what the ‘” means. Maybe outside of the top 1000?

    I think so too.

    ETA: Oh wait, scratch that. I’m not sure. Beyonce’s Video Phone at #427 is at around 4.59 million AIs (based on her Mediabase Quick Cut). Is 1.7 million AIs really that far behind to be outside of the top 1000?

  9. A lot of people have been following Michael’s “This Is It” movie. The Soundtrack that accompanies it was released last week and was the top selling album. With 373K, it had the 5th biggest week of any album this year. It is Michael’s 6th number one album on the BB 200.

  10. A lot of people have been following Michael’s ‘This Is It’  movie. The Soundtrack that accompanies it was released last week and was the top selling album. With 373K, it had the 5th biggest week of any album this year. It is Michael’s 6th number one album on the BB 200.

    Cool swan song for Michael.

    OMFG!!!!!! IT LEAKED!!!

    Is is against the rules to request someone commit boardicide? Just asking ;)

  11. Will Album sales for 2012 count towards Time for Miracles sales since it is on the Album?

  12. Will Album sales for 2012 count towards Time for Miracles sales since it is on the Album?

    No. That would be like counting every song on an album as being a sold as a single. That doesn’t make a lot of sense. There’s a difference between an album being sold and the sale of a single.

  13. Will Album sales for 2012 count towards Time for Miracles sales since it is on the Album?

    As babybelle32 pointed out, they are reported differently. If I get numbers for 2012, I will post them under the Idol related category (like the various Now and other Soundtrack albums).

  14. Kris’s first week’s sales can’t be judged in comparison to the Davids because of the season pass thing, which affected first day downloads in ways we can’t figure out until his CD’s first week’s sales are tallied.

    But his second week’s sales (which include 4 days of non-season pass affected first week) are considerably lower than the Davds’ second week sales.

    How does his current radio play stack up to the Davids’ radio play at the same time?

  15. One song. The guy who leaks doesn’t leak the entire list. Just the ones that he’s interested in. So, for instance, Jordin’s ‘Battlefield’  is higher up on the chart, but it’s falling and not interesting (to him). So, the entry on the list would be for ‘S.0.S.’  If there are multiple interesting songs for an artist, he will tag them with their song names. It is usually pretty obvious which song he’s referring to.

    Thanks, Kirsten. I figured that it was the most recent song, but I wasn’t sure. :)

  16. But his second week’s sales (which include 4 days of non-season pass affected first week) are considerably lower than the Davds’s second week sales.

    Yep. There is an interesting discussion about this in the Monday Mediabase thread, last week’s numbers thread, last week’s Monday Mediabase thread, last week’s numbers thread, the previous week’s Monday Mediabase thread, the previous week’s numbers thread and so on.

    Kris has a smaller fan base than either David. First week numbers are related to Idol fan base. Sales fall off exponentially from there (typically the second week fall is around 60%, third week 40%, fourth week 25%, fifth week 20% and so on). If you start low, you’ll stay low until airplay picks up. This is consistent on average across all artists.

  17. I remain curious about the radio play numbers, since presumably they’re not AI fanbase affected (or at least not as much as immediate sales are).

    Are Kris’s radio play numbers comparable to either of the Davids at the same point? Better? Worse?

  18. There is an interesting discussion about this in the Monday Mediabase thread, last week’s numbers thread, last week’s Monday Mediabase thread, last week’s numbers thread, the previous week’s Monday Mediabase thread, the previous week’s numbers thread and so on.

    LOL. I assume the only difference in the discussion will be when FYE figures come in (whenever that will be, between Amazon selling it and iTunes… not). Then, instead of comparing Kris to the Davids, we’ll have a 4-way comparison with Adam tossed in the mix. Goody.

  19. I’m tired of comparing season to season or even contestant to contestant. They all have variables that can’t be accounted for, so to me it makes little sense. Ultimately, they all have to garner outside fans through airplay/touring. That’s never done in the first or second week. Sometimes it takes months, but ultimately can actually be done.

    I’m a huge DC fan (as if y’all didn’t know), but I wish this season’s contestants well. I just don’t think there’s any way to compare any of them to another. Archuleta sold more of one single (double platinum, IIRC), and got huge airplay, but ultimately Cook’s first single went platinum and is *still* being played a whole bunch more than Archuleta’s. Cook also went platinum with his album in less than 4 months while Archuleta doesn’t look like his album will ever go platinum. So what do first, second or even third week sales numbers for a single mean in the long run? The only thing I can see that the correlate to is how rabid the American Idol fanbase is. Ultimately, you have to win over audiences that aren’t yet invested. You have to make them want to buy your album. The jury is still out on that, and will be for a while, I think.

  20. Are Kris’s radio play numbers comparable to either of the Davids at the same point? Better? Worse?

    There are lots of ways that you can define “the same point”. Do we compare week’s since release, weeks since adds, same date last year?

    Anyway, there are lots of parallels between Cook’s and Kris’s song. Here is a comparison I posted on the Monday Morning Mediabase thread.

    Cook’s ‘Light On’  went for first listen on Tuesday, Sept 23, 2008. Kris’s LLWD went for first listen on Monday, Sept 21.

    Today is Nov 2:
    Kris Allen:
    ‘Live Like We Are Dying’ : ^26 HAC (32), ^43 Pop (49)

    On Nov 3rd of last year:
    David Cook:
    ‘Light On’ : ^26 HAC (30), ^44 Pop (45)

    I also did the legwork to find out the same stats for Archie. This was done by going through MJ’s archive and checking out the release date and the Mediabase thread for each week.

    “Crush” was first spun on Friday, August the 1st, 2008. Here are the Mediabase numbers for “Crush” on Sept 8th:
    David Archuleta:
    ‘Crush’ : ^22 Pop (26), ^22 AC (22), ^33 HAC (36)

    Sept 15th (since the first week was a partial week)
    David Archuleta:
    ‘Crush’ : ^18 AC (22), ^20 Pop (22), ^31 HAC (33)

    Clearly, “Crush” was the bigger Pop and AC hit, while David and Kris got more traction in HAC.

  21. I remain curious about the radio play numbers, since presumably they’re not AI fanbase affected (or at least not as much as immediate sales are).

    Are Kris’s radio play numbers comparable to either of the Davids at the same point? Better? Worse?

    It was pointed out on Monday that after the same number of weeks, LLWD and LO have identical rankings on the HAC and Top 40 charts.

    The thing that I find interesting about these comparisons to the David’s is that nobody brings up the fact that despite getting huge debut numbers for their first singles, Jive couldn’t pay a radio station to play Archie’s second single, and Cook has had to work very hard to prove that he could connect with an audience outside of the AI bubble, so that stations would actually believe that there is an audience for his second single.

    At some point, it’s not what these former AI alums are doing in comparison to one another, it’s what they are doing in the industry period. I know that the Archie and Cook fans are happy that the sales for those guys debut weeks are better than Kris and Adam’s, but shouldn’t the focus be on what the David’s need to do to have a long career, and to actual sell records to someone who isn’t just buying their music because they were of fan while the guys were on AI?

  22. LOL. I assume the only difference in the discussion will be when FYE figures come in (whenever that will be, between Amazon selling it and iTunes’ ¦ not). Then, instead of a comparing Kris to the Davids, we’ll have a 4-way comparison with Adam tossed in the mix. Goody.

    I think it’s valid to have that discussion the week the first week numbers come out (and maybe the next). Continuing to have the discussion about those same first week numbers for several weeks starts to seem like beating a dead horse unless there is something new being added to the discussion.

  23. Thank you for the radio play numbers. I had assumed because the first two weeks sales numbers had been listed in this week’s comments section that they were open for discussion.

    I have enormous admiration for how David Cook is handling his post-Idol career. He’s working very very hard and I think it will pay off for him.

  24. I have enormous admiration for how David Cook is handling his post-Idol career. He’s working very very hard and I think it will pay off for him.

    I agree with you on both points about David, I’m just pointing out that the boost that he got from AI fans during the first week that LO was out didn’t mean too much to radio station program directors, nor did it mean anything in regards to how well his second single was received.

  25. “Continuing to have the discussion about those same first week numbers for several weeks starts to seem like beating a dead horse unless there is something new being added to the discussion.” – Kirsten

    Not to mention our heads would probably explode.

    I am intrigued by the airplay comparison between LLWD & LO; I think it’s fascinating. Kirsten do you have more numbers handy for a couple more weeks out for LO? Do you still have add numbers for LO? I wonder if their number of total adds were also similar at this stage – do you remember by chance?

  26. Did DCook do lots of radio interviews as Kris has been doing? I’m curious about that, too. Kris did another last night, and one early this morning. Seems like he’s talking to every DJ in the country…

  27. Thank you for the radio play numbers. I had assumed because the first two weeks sales numbers had been listed in this week’s comments section that they were open for discussion.

    I’m anticipating questions. Since it will be the second week for TFM and the first for FYE, people wonder what recent ones are. It was for those discussions. Comparisons always happen and I don’t have a problem with that. It’s one of the ways we have of evaluating and predicting. But chewing over the same numbers for 5 weeks in a row gets a little old.

    PTB, we need some new numbers!

    I have enormous admiration for how David Cook is handling his post-Idol career. He’s working very very hard and I think it will pay off for him.

    Yes, David Cook has definitely worked his butt off. No doubt about that. The music biz is hard.

  28. I also did the legwork to find out the same stats for Archie. This was done by going through MJ’s archive and checking out the release date and the Mediabase thread for each week.

    Heh. Hint, hint.

    Kirsten do you have more numbers handy for a couple more weeks out for LO? Do you still have add numbers for LO? I wonder if their number of total adds were also similar at this stage ‘“ do you remember by chance?

    I’ll give Kirsten a break on chasing down this one down.

    Chart history for Light On

    Add history for Light On

  29. Did DCook do lots of radio interviews as Kris has been doing? I’m curious about that, too. Kris did another last night, and one early this morning. Seems like he’s talking to every DJ in the country’ ¦

    Virtually everybody from Idol who’s ever had songs out either from major labels or independents has done this. They work really really hard trying to make nice with radio stations and help them fill their air time with something interesting in hopes that, in return, the stations will play their songs. …. And then sometimes they do — and more often than not, they don’t. …. But when the next song or album comes out, the Idol is usually right back in there again, talking and talking to those djs — who often say, “Gee, I love you and love your stuff,” even when the program directors at the stations have never ever played the person’s song, or played it only at 3 am or something. It’s a very very very tough business they’re in.

  30. I am intrigued by the airplay comparison between LLWD & LO; I think it’s fascinating. Kirsten do you have more numbers handy for a couple more weeks out for LO?

    November 8:
    ‘Light On’ : ^21 HAC (26), ^41 Pop (44)

    November 15:
    ‘Light On’ : ^19 HAC (21), ^34 Pop (41)

    As somebody pointed out on Monday (Folk?) rankings are related to the other songs on the radio at the time and may not accurately reflect the number of spins (and the breaks in the chart can appear at different spots).

    Do you still have add numbers for LO? I wonder if their number of total adds were also similar at this stage ‘“ do you remember by chance?

    Sorry, I don’t. I just started following Adds recently (and haven’t been keeping records). Perhaps somebody from DCO will have these numbers.

    ETA: And ladymadonna has already produced these numbers. Thanks! DCO has some excellent charts related to David’s song. I admire their record keeping and wish I was that organized.

  31. Thanks, bb & LM. Is there a way to maneuver through Mediabase to search for information without actually having a membership? Specifically, I’m talking about knowing song codes and such.

    Add boards are easier to find – but the quickcut information is tough to ferret out.

    I could have have thought to check LO’s adds myself if I’d had enough coffee, so thanks LM.

  32. Kris is also doing radio interviews for some of the 30 radio stations that are taking part in the Live in the Vineyard concert that he is performing at this Sunday. He’s basically doing the regular radio promo tour, except he hasn’t gone directly to too many stations, yet, maybe he’ll do that after the album comes out.

  33. Re: LO airplay. Interesting, LLWD seems on that same trajectory – at least on HAC with the good adds yesterday. Pop – we’ll see.

    The LLWD music video comes out Friday – I don’t know if that will affect radio requests or not – I’d think so intuitively, but don’t really know if that historically moves airplay.

  34. Maybe the the Live in the Vineyard radio interviews will kick loose some West Coast airplay for LLWD.

  35. It’s definitely a tough business…especially when these people get up at the crack of dawn to kiss the DJ’s asses and do it well and then get laughed at as soon as they hang up the phone. I have to think some of these DJ’s have penis envy (even when It’s a female idol). Radio stations can be truly ugly, especially when labels are doing all but giving them their first born for radio play.

  36. The funny thing is, last year I honestly don’t remember anyone caring about how Jordin did and comparing her to Cook, and I definitely didn’t see anyone bring up Blake as comparable to Archie… IIRC we were mostly too busy constantly comparing the Davids to each other. LOL

  37. Is there a way to maneuver through Mediabase to search for information without actually having a membership? Specifically, I’m talking about knowing song codes and such. Add boards are easier to find ‘“ but the quickcut information is tough to ferret out.

    Eileen99: You can find the Quickcut for any song by plugging the song code into the end of this template URL:

    http://www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/Reports/Reg/EMDMenu.asp?sngcde=

    There is a formula for the song codes. Basically it is the first 4 letters of the artist’s last name plus the acronym for the song title. If there are multiple artists/songs with that same code, they tack a sequential number on the end to dfferentiate. So for instance the song code for LLWD is ALLELLWD, but the song code for Heartless is ALLEH3 (ALLEH1 = RANCE ALLEN GROUP – Heaven, and ALLEH2 = LILY ALLEN – Him).

    So for most songs you can play around with the acronyms a bit, quickly figure out the song code and plug it in. But an even easier way? Use the Mediabase Add Board to search for adds by song. Once you click to see the detail on the song you want, the songcode for that track will be displayed in the address bar of your browser. Just copy/paste that baby into the template link I posted above, and Voila – you have yourself a QuickCut.

  38. LOL..I think it’s been completely established that no one compares to the Davids.

    I don’t think that’s the case at all. It’s just that there are a lot more folks on the board that were here last year when S7 was in swing so lots of info regarding their sales, airplay, etc. is at their fingertips. Also, the Davids are somewhat easier comparators (to the extent comparisons are even useful) to Kris and Adam because they are targeting the same formats.

    Last year, Jordin wasn’t actually that useful a comparator for the Davids because her fanbase was quite small — which she, of course, grew. So what ended up happening is that the Davids would get compared to seasons further back — which got you the powerhouses that were Daughtry and Underwood — which ended up not really being useful comparisons because everyone said no one’s ever going to touch those numbers ever again. That’s when you can definitely say that no one compares to either Daughtry or Underwood.

  39. If you guys are looking for similarities between LO and LLWD

    Thursday, October 2, 2008 – 17:19
    David Cook
    A.I. Winner seeing major spin increases at Top 40 with new single ‘Light On’ . Adds this week: KRBE, WBZW, WWWQ, WQAL, WQAl, KMXV, CKEY. Spin Leaders: KMXV, WBMX, WWWQ. Top 10 single on iTunes after one day. Multiple TV appearances mid November. Video filming now; impacting end of October. Tons of press on deck, including Blender and RS, leading up to CD release on 11/18. Mgmt: Simon Fuller and Iain Pirie/19 Ent.

    from one of the comments at link

    and

    Kris Allen
    19/Jive/JLG
    album: Kris Allen
    track: Live Like We’re Dying

    Season 8 Idol winner seeing huge love at Pop and Hot Adult w/ adds at: KCIX, KFYV, KLCA, KUDD, KZZU, WAJI, WSTR, WWMP, WXLK. LP streets 11/17. Marco Puig directed vid in post-production. GMA 11/17, Regis & Kelly 11/18, taping Ellen 11/19, Conan to follow. Radio promo events all of December. Tons of press. Mgmt: Simon Fuller, Stirling McIlwaine/19 Ent.

    link

  40. Last year, Jordin wasn’t actually that useful a comparator for the Davids because her fanbase was quite small ‘” which she, of course, grew. So what ended up happening is that the Davids would get compared to seasons further back ‘” which got you the powerhouses that were Daughtry and Underwood ‘” which ended up not really being useful comparisons because everyone said no one’s ever going to touch those numbers ever again. That’s when you can definitely say that no one compares to either Daughtry or Underwood.

    But, even this shows that the comparisons don’t make a lot of sense. For instance, I think that Jordin was the first idol alum to release a single, other than the coronation single, before her album came out, so it’s really hard to compare her numbers with the people who didn’t have this option. So far, I’ve seen people compare sales of LLWD to the first week sales of other idol winners debut albums, or even the coronation songs, and that just doesn’t make any sense to me. If we are going to compare to the coronation songs, then a better example would be sales of Heartless, NB and the others, not LLWD.

  41. Just one question a bit off topic.
    I saw someone posted that Simon Fuller is the manager of Kris (and Cook and Carrie I think). Does he manages Adam, Archuleta and Jordin also?

  42. With the success of David Cook’s singles off his album, how come they didn’t release a third single?? Come back to me came out so long ago. With a new album not projected until mid year next year, how come no new single?

  43. Just one question a bit off topic.
    I saw someone posted that Simon Fuller is the manager of Kris (and Cook and Carrie I think). Does he manages Adam, Archuleta and Jordin also?

    We know that Jordin and Archuletta are with other management firms.

    We haven’t been told which firm manages Adam, but a lot of people suspect that it’s 19M and Simon Fuller based on some of the press releases. Some are suspicious though that on 19E’s website, the description for Adam is more like that for Jordin and Archie than that for Kris, Allison, Carrie and Cook (for which it says they are recording for and managed by 19).

    We should know definitively once HDD publishes it’s vibe rater for Adam (which should happen very soon). I suspect that based on the 19E website and some of the gigs that Adam is getting he is with other management, but I could be wrong.

  44. Jolene, I know!

    I wonder if a couple of things weren’t at work:

    As album drop dates approached last year, both the winner and runner-up had already had a song that was a radio and a sales hit (Time of My Life and Crush) and Cook had a second song on its way up. So there was serious data to argue over`as far as what expectations to have for their records.

    The previous two winners, Taylor and Jordin, had poor starts: one a brief flash, then nothing, the other a reaaally slow start that later turned upwards. And the last two runner ups, Blake and Katherine McPhee, had burnt out within a few months.

    And no one could agree (or even now agrees) on what Daughtry’s success meant.

    No one was going to compare Archie to Blake or Kat, becuase he already had Crush on his resume. It made no sense to compare Cook to Taylor (though people did) because Cook had already sold a million singles and had serious airplay before his record came out.

    Thus the overwhelming tendency was to try to compare the meaning of every data point, David vs David.

    This year, you have the weird repeat of two male finalists again, and people would prefer to see parallels to one of their successes for either Kris or Adam, even though, as usual, there are a million differences as well.

    Should one or the other turn out to have had a relatively low Nov/Dec, I expect to see lots of excavation of Jordin’s stats, who was belabored mercilessly as the lowest Idol winner evah till she turned it all around with No Air.

  45. and Cook has had to work very hard to prove that he could connect with an audience outside of the AI bubble, so that stations would actually believe that there is an audience for his second single….*snip*but shouldn’t the focus be on what the David’s need to do to have a long career, and to actual sell records to someone who isn’t just buying their music because they were of fan while the guys were on AI

    Actually there was recently a lengthy discussion of Cook’s post show buzz vs. Adam’s buzz vs. Kris’s buzz that touched on these issues, at least where Cook is concerned. I can’t recall which thread it was, but it was good reading. Anyway, in a nutshell, the impression was Adam seems to have more unconditional industry love than Cook, who had the benefit of a big and loyal fanbase but was greeted with a “wait and see” attitude by the media and radio and had to work his ass off to prove his worth in the industry. I’m sure beyond the tireless promo and tour schedule, Cook’s solid album sales helped in getting the industry behind him a tiny bit more. The album hung in the BB 200 for almost a year. And, well, if Archie had trounced him in album sales, I’d imagine there would have been the added stigma of comparisons to Hicks/Daughtry and Studdard/Aiken.

    Conversely, I’ll be shocked if radio doesn’t embrace Adam in a big way right out of the gate based on all of the early indications and the media pegging him as one of the next big things. He’s stepping into the perfect pop culture climate for the type of record he put together, too. All he needs to do is open pretty strong with his album sales and not suck on the AMAs, really. Kris seems to be behind the curve of both Cook and Adam as he’s got the wait and see industry reception plus apparently a smaller fanbase than Cookie. His opening album sales numbers should be interesting. I’m guessing Kris is probably going to have to try and go the Cook route…work his ass off and get out there on tour and impress people one concert/promo appearance at a time. As for where Archie fits in…Jive seemed to pimp him pretty hard to radio, and in response radio loved him and then…not so much. It was weird. I don’t really follow Archie’s career closely enough to make an informed opinion as to what went on there, but if I had to guess I’d say Jive was riding the teen-pop wave with Archie what with the breakout success of Miley and the Jo Bros. That trend seems to have died down a bit and maybe Archie’s second single was a casualty. I’m guessing his management are going for a do over with the Christmas album and I suspect a bit of rebranding when his second CD drops. Jive seems to still be firmly in Archie’s corner, though maybe the Archie fans can offer opinons to the contrary? RCA and Cook….well, something’s wonky behind the scenes when you even have radio stations tweeting that they are puzzled at the lack of a third Cook single and making suggestions to RCA. I admit to confusion as to why they aren’t capitalizing on Cook’s HAC foothold at the very least with another single, but that’s fodder for a whole other longass discussion. Maybe RCA is planning a bit of a marketing do over there, too, with Cook’s next album if it takes a harder rock direction? Who knows.

  46. The funny thing is, last year I honestly don’t remember anyone caring about how Jordin did and comparing her to Cook, and I definitely didn’t see anyone bring up Blake as comparable to Archie’ ¦

    I think that might be considered kicking somebody when they were down. Jordin and Blake lost that competition with the Davids by quite a bit. Jordin went on to have a big hit, so she overcame her initial numbers, but poor Blake lost his contract (but has some dance hits on his latest album). I could dredge them up.

  47. On getting Add Information/Quick Cut info:
    Go Here to get the song code. It should be something similiar to what Ladymadonna posted.

    If you want the quick cut info after you have the song code, copy and paste it after the equal sign (right now CAROINO is pointing to Carolina Liar’s It’s Not Over)

    http://www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/Reports/Reg/EMDMenu.asp?sngcde=CAROINO

    Then just make sure the Chart Mode is “rolling” and click on go, and there you have it: Quick Cut info.

  48. We should know definitively once HDD publishes it’s vibe rater for Adam (which should happen very soon). I suspect that based on the 19E website and some of the gigs that Adam is getting he is with other management, but I could be wrong.

    Oooh, curiousity now. I’m one of those folks who’s always been skeptical about the label wars, RCA vs Jibe debates because they’re both arms of Sony, right? But the management does intrigue me. Who gets the Full Fuller and all that.

  49. The thing that I find interesting about these comparisons to the David’s is that nobody brings up the fact that despite getting huge debut numbers for their first singles, Jive couldn’t pay a radio station to play Archie’s second single, and Cook has had to work very hard to prove that he could connect with an audience outside of the AI bubble, so that stations would actually believe that there is an audience for his second single.
    The comparisons keep coming up because Kris and Adam are in their launch phae, so they get compared to last year’s launch phase, Nobody is comparing them to what comes next because there is no “what comes next” for Kris and Adam yet.

    Also, every single week more than one person says this is just about the first few weeks and then they have to establish themselves in the larger market.

    The Davids and Jordin are the only idols to get released in the ITunes single dominant era – whose singles came out before the album – so that is usually the most appropriate comparison to make. This blog only started n Season 5, so we don’t have a history with anything before that.

    Just because Kris and Adam are not comparing favorably to the Davids right now, doesn’t mean they won’t kick Davids ass in the future. All this arguing is still only about the first few weeks of these eras.

    Its not a conspiracy against either idol.

  50. It would be very surprising if Fuller wasn’t managing Adam. Archie had issues with his Dad as co-manager. Jordin started with Fuller and then moved on. The only year Fuller didn’t manage either of the Top 2 was S5 when he went with Daughtry.

    Things have changed so much in music, it’s hard to compare more than a year or two back. Years ago, Clay Aiken sold 600K albums his first week. Nobody today can really match those numbers so it’s fairer to just compare more recent sales. What interesting about Jordin is she started slow and ended big. Very unIdol like. ;)

  51. I agree Kirsten. Instead, the Davids were compared to Daughtry and Carrie (and even Kelly). To compare them to the previous year’s winner and runner up at the time would have been Heartless (pun intended). I’m glad to see that Jordin (tho she’s no fave of mine) has proven herself as one who has comparative ability. I just think that any Idol’s success benefits each of the Idols.

  52. I can’t edit my above post to fix the quote tag, sorry about that peeps! The first paragraph is a quote, the second paragraph is my response.

  53. Season 5 was pretty unusual in that the Winner and Runner up released albums “late”, missing out on Holiday Sales. Taylor was December and Kat was January?

    And then I don’t think Taylor’s label released a single until late Jan., if not later than that. Did he even get a music video? I’ve seen some speculation that Kris is getting “The Taylor Hicks Treatment” but I don’t believe it’s anywhere close to that. The handling of Taylor was pretty much a mess.

    For all the discussion on buzz, 19E/Jive seem to be giving him his due and a fair shot.

  54. I suspect that based on the 19E website and some of the gigs that Adam is getting he is with other management, but I could be wrong

    .

    Although it would not surprise me if Fuller/19 was managing Adam, IMO he should get separate management. Too many idols in one house.

  55. “I suspect that based on the 19E website and some of the gigs that Adam is getting he is with other management, but I could be wrong.” — Kirsten

    My thoughts exactly! Perhaps, it gives Adam more freedom to make his own unique choices as far as music and promotion.

  56. At the time, I didn’t realize how messed up the handling of Taylor’s album was. He was very transitional. Before him, Idol winners could sell one million albums purely from the show. They didn’t really need to get huge radio play. But things changed with him. Now 19 tries to get radio hits and they’re important.

    Fuller not managing Adam would be very surprising.

  57. Actually there was recently a lengthy discussion of Cook’s post show buzz vs. Adam’s buzz vs. Kris’s buzz that touched on these issues, at least where Cook is concerned.

    sunchick – thanks for sharing. I missed this discussion, but tend to agree with a lot of those points re the Davids/Adam/Kris.

    Ok, so now I’m totally confused about what RCA is doing with Adam now. The point was made that Kris is still doing a ton of radio interviews and promos. So where is Adam’s? The album is done, he shouldn’t really need to do much (except get ready for the AMA performance), so I don’t understand why he isn’t at least doing simple radio interviews like he did with Ryan – get the name and single out there more. Not getting that at all. Not to mention the confusing release of FYE, no itunes release yet, etc. Argh. Trying to understand what’s going on with it all…

    ETA: Suddenly Kris’s camp is seeming way more organized at the moment.

  58. jpfan
    At the time, I didn’t realize how messed up the handling of Taylor’s album was. He was very transitional. Before him, Idol winners could sell one million albums purely from the show. They didn’t really need to get huge radio play. But things changed with him. Now 19 tries to get radio hits and they’re important.

    Well it wasn’t till after Season 5 that Clive Davis stopped involving himself with idol albums…that could explain a lot.

    Speaking of management were Kat and Taylor managed w/ 19E? I don’t think either of them were. S5 was just a weird year all around.

  59. Here’s another article (from Billboard.com) showing how much album sales are declining…

    “Overall album sales in this past chart week (ending Nov. 1) totaled 6.31 million units, up 10% compared to the sum last week (5.72 million) and down 9% compared to the same sales week of 2008 (6.96 million). Year to date album sales stand at 287.6 million, down 13% compared to the same total at this point last year (332.3 million).”

  60. Neither Kat or Taylor were managed by Fuller. Just Daughtry (and maybe Pickler?) S5 was a very crazy year. Also for good measure, no singles were released before Albums then (except for the horrible coronation songs.)

  61. Well it wasn’t till after Season 5 that Clive Davis stopped involving himself with idol albums’ ¦that could explain a lot.

    Speaking of management were Kat and Taylor managed w/ 19E? I don’t think either of them were. S5 was just a weird year all around.

    Yeah, Clive didn’t disappear until Season 7 really. I don’t think he had much to do with Jordin either. But he was all over Blake… he picked that stupid “Break Anotha” to be Blake’s first single, when half the free world wanted “How Many Words”(?). The non-Clive Idols have consistently had singles come out before the album.

  62. Well it wasn’t till after Season 5 that Clive Davis stopped involving himself with idol albums’ ¦that could explain a lot.

    Clive did have some involvement with Blake. I seem to recall that Clive was a big backer and when he got replaced by Barry prior to the release of Blake’s second single, Blake said everything became confusing and he suddenly lost all support.

    Clive was also heavily involved with dissing Kelly’s album that year (she returned the favour in spades) and isn’t he listed as one of her producers on her latest album?

    But, his Idol involvement has dropped steeply since S5/S6ish.

    Clive isn’t dead. He’s just lurking.

  63. But the 19 website doesn’t even say Adam is recording for 19. I suspect they just left the managing and/or managing/recording part out. If you look at his blurb compared to Kris and Allison’s I’d be shocked if he wasn’t managed by them. Kris and Allison get very basic blurbs while Adam’s is more similar to David’s with the bragging about his chart success, when really, at this point he and Kris’ chart success aren’t all that different.

  64. I agree 100% with most of your post, sunchick, but I wouldn’t read too much into one sketchy radio station’s tweets about “making suggestions to RCA”, re: DC’s lack of new singles. I dunno the details, but despite CBTM doing relatively well on HAC for a while, it simply wasn’t pushing album sales for the latter part of its radio run. We know DCTR is selling less than 1000 per week, and has fallen off the BB 200. Let’s say it costs a couple to several hundred thousand dollars to release a new single, which may or may not do well on HAC or Pop. That monetary investment is probably not worth the risk to RCA, if the new single, like CBTM only serves to push a couple thousand more albums a week, even if it does marvelously on HAC. I’d love for more DC singles, would love to hear his music used on TV, etc., but at this point, I don’t see it happening. I don’t think it means RCA gave up on DC or anything. It’s just some understandable business decisions.

  65. What the 19E website says about 19 and various Idols (though it may mean nothing):

    Adam:
    His highly anticipated debut album, For Your Entertainment, on 19 Recordings/RCA, will be released on November 23rd.

    Allison:
    Her debut album, Just Like You, on 19 Recordings/Jive Records, is set for release on December 1st. Allison is managed by and records for 19 Entertainment.

    Carrie:
    Carrie is managed by and records for 19 Entertainment.

    Daughtry:
    Daughtry is managed by and records for 19 Entertainment.

    David:
    David is managed by and records for 19 Entertainment.

    Jordin: [known not to be managed by 19M]
    Jordin records for 19 Entertainment.

    Kris:
    Kris is managed by and records for 19 Entertainment.

    I notice that they do not appear to be using art from the Album photo shoot for Adam (which they are for Kris and Allison), so perhaps they are behind the curve on updating Adam’s page.

  66. I suspect that based on the 19E website and some of the gigs that Adam is getting he is with other management, but I could be wrong.

    Could Adam choose someone other than 19 management, or would 19 have to pass on him first?

  67. Yeah, sma11ie, that’s a very probable explanation. I didn’t mean to imply RCA had given up on Cook at all. Obviously they have greenlighted album numero dos. What I’m wondering now, though, is if David’s management and the RCA suits are on the same page, especially where singles from this record are concerned. You’d think program directors and the like are privvy to more of the behind the scenes chatter than the average joe. Their tweet made me wonder if that was their own well meaning Cook promoting impulse or in response to something they picked up on from Cook’s management when David visited the station.

  68. Could Adam choose someone other than 19 management, or would 19 have to pass on him first?

    I think 19 has first right of refusal, so they do have to willingly let him go. That said, it is hard to manage someone who absolutely does not want to be managed by you, so I could see them releasing him like they’ve done for idols past.

    I never got the impression Adam didn’t want to be managed by 19 though. I would be shocked if he was with anyone else personally. Simon Fuller seemed so excited about him.

  69. I never got the impression Adam didn’t want to be managed by 19 though.

    Yeah, everything I’ve heard sounds like both parties are really happy. And I agree that it sounds like he is working with 19 – the full details just haven’t been posted. He did mention, way back, about Simon Fuller working with him to potentially go to Europe. Not that that means Simon is PERSONALLY managing him, but he’s likely under 19 at the very least.

  70. sma11ie

    I know that’s become something of a standard line about Come Back to Me

    But Jordin Sparks at the same time (album out 12 months) had sold far fewer albums, and her label still went for a third single and kept her on the air while she worked on her follow up. Despite her single sales, Jordin’s first album has never caught up with Cooks.

    Throw in all *his* single sales, and the tour and Cook has generated way more revenue then Jordin in one year. I don’t buy this “it costs too much to release a single” biz at all.

    I do buy there’s some logic we don’t get. But with Cook having generated something like $20 mil in revenues in one year, I’m not feeling the cost explanation. Given the choice of the generic CBTM in the first place over much stronger songs, I think they’re putting the dude in a tough place for his next record.

  71. Clive isn’t dead. He’s just lurking.

    He’s not dead yet! Sorry, couldn’t resist.

    Oh and I wouldn’t be too sure Clive isn’t the walking undead. Did you see him on XFactor with Whitney? He was totally going to be eating those kids brains if left in the room with them.

  72. But Jordin Sparks at the same time (album out 12 months) had sold far fewer albums, and her label still went for a third single and kept her on the air while she worked on her follow up. Despite her single sales, Jordin’s first album has never caught up with Cooks.

    I get what you’re saying, but just to play devil’s advocate here. Jordin’s second single, No Air, blew up on radio and was ubiquitous enough to eventually go triple platinum and earn her a Grammy nom. It sold itself and was probably at or near 2 million downloads by the time Jive released One Step at a Time. No Air wasn’t selling her album very much, but it was selling itself a LOT, and to a large extent, her name. Jive had good reason to follow that monstrously successful 2nd single with another shot. CBTM did well on HAC, but never reached those heights that No Air did, so you can’t compare Jive releasing a third single after No Air to RCA not releasing a third single after CBTM. You can maybe compare CBTM to OSAAT, which did well on Pop also, and sold itself a bit (isn’t that song at or near 2x plat?), but again, not the album, so definitely not enough to justify a fourth single.

    Throw in all *his* single sales, and the tour and Cook has generated way more revenue then Jordin in one year. I don’t buy this ‘it costs too much to release a single’  biz at all.

    All DC’s single sales and the tour… that’s revenue already in the pocket. If RCA doesn’t think investing in another single release will increase future revenue, they won’t do it.

  73. He did mention, way back, about Simon Fuller working with him to potentially go to Europe.

    There is no credible information about that at this point, so it’s not really a good data point.

    But carry on with the rest of the discussion, I think we’ll find out either way when that HDD vibe raters thing comes out. Which I gather should be soon.

  74. The album is done, he shouldn’t really need to do much (except get ready for the AMA performance), so I don’t understand why he isn’t at least doing simple radio interviews like he did with Ryan ‘“ get the name and single out there more.

    Well, this may be off the wall, but I don’t think it’s out of the question that Ryan’s station stipulated that they get the only interview for a week or something, in exchange for debuting the song. Since their debuting something is considered a fairly major deal and you certainly have to make some kind of a deal to get it.

    Or maybe they’re just screwing up and not realizing that it would be good to get Adam more exposure on radio. I seriously doubt this, though. Everybody knows better than that, and RCA/19 (or whoever) certainly do. He’ll start showing up somewhere fairly soon, I expect.

  75. There is no credible information about that at this point, so it’s not really a good data point.

    But carry on with the rest of the discussion.

    LOL – troublemaker :-) Just kidding – I remember now – this was actually second hand info reported by someone who said Adam had said it. Good point.

  76. We know DCTR is selling less than 1000 per week, and has fallen off the BB 200.

    It’s selling between 1K-2K a week (5400 sold in 3 weeks from my last calculation).

  77. Well, this may be off the wall, but I don’t think it’s out of the question that Ryan’s station stipulated that they get the only interview for a week or something, in exchange for debuting the song. Since their debuting something is considered a fairly major deal and you certainly have to make some kind of a deal to get it.

    Hmm, the only counter-argument I can think of for this, though, is the fact that Kris did Ryan’s show, plus the thing in Boston iirc (though I don’t know that LLWD was premiered there), and then he may have even done other promos the week after Ryan. I don’t have all the details, but I know Kris did a lot right off the bat.

    I’m trying to have faith – hopefully there’s a plan at work here that I’m just not understanding fully.

  78. But Jordin Sparks at the same time (album out 12 months) had sold far fewer albums, and her label still went for a third single and kept her on the air while she worked on her follow up. Despite her single sales, Jordin’s first album has never caught up with Cooks.

    But since the only thing that Jordin has been able to sell much of is singles, they kind of *have* to keep releasing singles if they want to make any money off of her, don’t they?

    Whereas, David’s tour sells well and his album has sold well. So bucks are coming in from those enterprises. Thus, they don’t *need* an extra single that much — especially since his singles haven’t sold to nearly the level of Jordin’s. (except for TOML, of course)

  79. sma11ie

    Actually, now that I read your details, I think we’re not really disagreeing so much as coming at it from different angles.

    As you say, RCA’s position may be based on having all the revenue in pocket. And not being willing to spend any on Cook unless it generated further revenues.

    I think *given* the amount of money he pulled in for all parties, that’s being penny wise and pound foolish. Spending a relatively modest amount to help keep Cook’s momentum going would have been a good idea (as well as more fair to the artist, but that’s not actually likely to factor). I think leaving it so he won’t have had new music on the airwaves from summer 09 till sometime mid 2010 is kind of wasting some of good start he got.

    Whaddaya going to do. This time last year I would have been thrilled to see him achieve everything he DID achieve. I should take my own advice and notice that Cook has a way of making imperfect things come out great in the end :-)

  80. Adam Lambert, Time for Miracles (12,000, -74 percent, 59,000)
    Kris Allen, Live Like We’re Dying (10,000, +3 percent, 83,000)

    This is interesting. Adam sells 12,000 without any radio play. Kris sells 10,000 with tons of radio play and adds. Hmmmmm!

  81. Adam may well do local radio interviews but I, personally, think his time is better spent getting a “band and back-up singers” up and running, as well as getting his album tunes ready for his visual promotional tour. He is also “practicing” for the AMAs and has been doing a bunch of 2012 promo.

    Besides, local radio interviews “might” get you a 100,000 listeners tops. Adam is going on the AMAs and singing in front of “maybe” 10 million peeps who are really interested in music and singers. So a hundred interviews or a good performance at the AMAs. I know where I would be devoting my time and energy.

  82. Ravengirl just posted in the headlines thread that FYE is now available on Itunes!

  83. As you say, RCA’s position may be based on having all the revenue in pocket. And not being willing to spend any on Cook unless it generated further revenues.

    Something tells me the difference between Jordin and DC has more to do with Jordin than with David.

    At this point in time, especially, I don’t think the labels want to spend any more money than they have to — on anyone — to generate revenues at this point. And with David they don’t have to — his album has done well; his tour does well. Dollars keep flowing in.

    But with Jordin, if they don’t put out singles, they sell *nothing* — not tour tickets, not albums. So if they want revenues there at all — and they do — they have to crank out and support the singles. So they crank out and support the singles. But only because they absolutely have to in order to see any return on their investment at all.

  84. Kris Allen, Live Like We’re Dying (10,000, +3 percent, 83,000)

    I don’t understand these numbers. Last week Kris sold more than 10,000 of LLWD, how is it an increase of 3% this week?

    ETA: wait, rounded numbers, right?

  85. alaadam- lets see how TFM sales hold up a month and half down the line before making any conclusions.

  86. I don’t understand these numbers. Last week Kris sold more than 10,000 of LLWD, how is it an increase of 3% this week?

    ETA: wait, rounded numbers, right?

    Adam had a big decrease but sold 2000 more without any radio play…

  87. Ouch, huge drop for TFM. And it’s still falling fast on iTunes. They should’ve released FYE on there this week.

    Good to see another small increase for Kris, even with minimal airplay. When it hits the top 40 on Pop radio tomorrow and then with the video premiere on Friday, sales should continue to increase.

  88. Clive was also heavily involved with dissing Kelly’s album that year (she returned the favour in spades) and isn’t he listed as one of her producers on her latest album?

    I do distinctly remember seeing a video of him previewing My Life Would Suck Without U as a possible track for Kelly’s latest album. Kind of creepy watching ODL bop his head to it and pronounce it “perfect for her”. Can I just say I really hate those lyrics and the fact that Clive apparently chose the song for Kelly considering the entire My December situation? /vent

  89. Also I think whoever is managing Adam are putting a lot of hopes on the AMA event. It comes right before the album release date doesn’t it? So they may hope that AMA will get stations to add/play the song and the audience to buy his album/single.

  90. cilady
    11/04/2009 at 12:11 pm
    alaadam- lets see how TFM sales hold up a month and half down the line before making any conclusions.

    Totally agree with this. TFM is not being pushed to radio at all. It has fallen way below LLWD on the Itunes charts. If the movie release doesn’t increase its exposure, it will just keep declining in sales.

  91. With no real radio play – I’m not hating on 12,000 in sales for TfM.

  92. Lucy:

    You make good points about Jordin. I hadn’t thought about it that way, that she and her label have to keep cranking out singles when one falls, unless and until her album sales go up.

  93. cilady
    11/04/2009 at 12:11 pm
    alaadam- lets see how TFM sales hold up a month and half down the line before making any conclusions.

    No conclusions were made.

  94. It’s selling between 1K-2K a week (5400 sold in 3 weeks from my last calculation).

    Sorry, that was a typo, I meant less than 2000.

    I think *given* the amount of money he pulled in for all parties, that’s being penny wise and pound foolish. Spending a relatively modest amount to help keep Cook’s momentum going would have been a good idea (as well as more fair to the artist, but that’s not actually likely to factor). I think leaving it so he won’t have had new music on the airwaves from summer 09 till sometime mid 2010 is kind of wasting some of good start he got.

    Totally agree with you there. But yeah, whaddaya gonna do. None of us have a direct line to the RCA decision makers, not even that stupid radio station. (Sorry, last comment about the stupid radio station and letting it go)

  95. cilady
    11/04/2009 at 12:13 pm
    Also I think whoever is managing Adam are putting a lot of hopes on the AMA event. It comes right before the album release date doesn’t it? So they may hope that AMA will get stations to add/play the song and the audience to buy his album/single.

    I would imagine that there are some radio interviews planned for Adam before the AMA’s. FYE only premiered on Friday. He had 2012 promo Monday and Tuesday. It’s still almost 3 weeks until the AMA’s. I can’t imagine he won’t do them, everyone does them.

  96. With no real radio play ‘“ I’m not hating on 12,000 in sales for TfM.

    Me neither. I was actually surprised.

  97. Also I think whoever is managing Adam are putting a lot of hopes on the AMA event. It comes right before the album release date doesn’t it? So they may hope that AMA will get stations to add/play the song and the audience to buy his album/single.

    It could totally happen. I’m pretty sure I’m not totally making this up, cuz from what I could remember, The Fray premiered their live performance of You Found Me, the lead-in single for their latest album at the AMA’s last year and TOTALLY killed it. I remember there was mucho buzz about that performance afterwards, and the next thing you knew, I was hearing the song everywhere, and it blew up on radio and never looked back. So I’m thinking Adam’s people are banking on that happening for FYE. This is a GREAT gig for Adam.

  98. With no real radio play ‘“ I’m not hating on 12,000 in sales for TfM

    Frig…why would I pay a buck to download this when I can get the whole video for free on I-tunes. Someone please explain that logic to me.

  99. Besides, local radio interviews ‘might’  get you a 100,000 listeners tops. Adam is going on the AMAs and singing in front of ‘maybe’  10 million peeps who are really interested in music and singers. So a hundred interviews or a good performance at the AMAs. I know where I would be devoting my time and energy.

    I agree – but my thinking is, it can’t be THAT much of a time and/or other resource committment to have him do more promo like the radio interviews. These things can be done on the phone in, say, 15 minutes tops.

    My biggest fear, I think, is that, sure the AMA thing is big, but I get nervous if the strategy is for EVERYTHING to hang on that one performance. Talk about pressure. And the conservative in me would prefer a more spread out plan.

    Re TFM’s numbers – I would say 12,000 with NO airplay (and no push to the radios, etc.) is pretty impressive, I have no problem with that. Once we learned the MV wouldn’t be shown before TII, I had pretty low expectations.

  100. i’m admittedly surprised with the download numbers for ”time for miracles”… i may be whistling dixie, but i thought that its sales on the massive hype alone from brian may, other music heavy’s and his hi profile in the media would and should have more than compensated for lack of airplay… adam has name recognition and media awareness no other idol has had coming off the show, going into the album debut, so i’m a little surprised the download numbers aren’t higher… it’s not the be all and end all, but i am a little surprised…

  101. On the other hand, Muse had the VMAs and were hyped up the wazoo for Uprising and that didn’t do anything on Pop radio. So I guess anything could happen. I don’t think RCA is betting everything on a kick ass AMA performance response, but I still think it’s a big factor in their plans.

  102. I’d love for more DC singles, would love to hear his music used on TV, etc., but at this point, I don’t see it happening. I don’t think it means RCA gave up on DC or anything. It’s just some understandable business decisions.

    RCA’s “business decisions” in regards to DC’s singles have been abysmal. They owe the guy something for pulling in money in spite of their god awful choices. They threw him a bone by “releasing” BBS and then proceeded to give him no opportunity to promote it. Based on singles, they portrayed Cook as a different type of artist than he is, as well as making him seem like a guy who can’t write his own music because they haven’t bothered to release and promote any of his own work. They’re atrocious and they owe him BIG TIME for screwing up and forcing him to work his a$$ off correcting the wrong impression they’ve put out of him and forcing him to try and highlight his own songs anyway he can. Useless.

  103. my thinking is, it can’t be THAT much of a time and/or other resource committment to have him do more promo like the radio interviews. These things can be done on the phone in, say, 15 minutes tops.

    I agree. It does take some time and energy to set up the appointments, but it never hurts to do a few favours (e.g. in the form of a radio interview) with radio stations. Best to build relationships.

    I suspect these types of interviews are planned. I still think the add date was rushed and that FYE will get more adds next week. Most programming decisions are made in the tail end of the week and Adam’s song wasn’t out soon enough in the week last week to be included in those decisions. RCA knows how to release things, but they just need a bit of time to set things up.

  104. Kworb
    11/04/2009 at 12:12 pm
    Ouch, huge drop for TFM. And it’s still falling fast on iTunes. They should’ve released FYE on there this week.

    Good to see another small increase for Kris, even with minimal airplay.

    alaadam
    11/04/2009 at 12:02 pm

    This is interesting. Adam sells 12,000 without any radio play. Kris sells 10,000 with tons of radio play and adds. Hmmmmm!

    LOL.

  105. I wouldn’t say selling 10,000 downloads a week is great whether it’s TfM or Kris’ numbers. It’s just okay dawg. . :)

  106. Well, if I was feeling badly about TFM, this might make me feel a little better. From Brian Mansfield’s USA Today’s Idol Chatter:

    Downloads of Adam Lambert’s Time for Miracles fell a hefty 74 percent in its second week. That might seem like a lot, but a quick look at two other tracks in similar situations suggest it’s not an abnormal amount. Carrie Underwood’s Temporary Home, which, like Time for Miracles, is not currently a single, dropped 74 percent. And the Glee cast version of Sweet Caroline, last week’s top-selling debut, fell off 71 percent.

    I’m not ready to write the song completely off yet. The movie opens November 13th and who knows what might happen then.

  107. On the other hand, Muse had the VMAs and were hyped up the wazoo for Uprising and that didn’t do anything on Pop radio. So I guess anything could happen. I don’t think RCA is betting everything on a kick ass AMA performance response, but I still think it’s a big factor in their plans.

    Well, imo Uprising was never going to kill on pop radio. Muse gets radio play in my area on the rock stations, but that’s about it. Uprising is much more of an alt-rock song.

    FYE does seem much better suited to get a good kick off from AMA – tends to be a younger audience, performers like Kelly, Gaga, BEP are all in a similar vein, etc.

    What will be interesting to see is if we get “WLL performance”-style Adam (high energy, excellent vocals and performance), or “album cover”-style Adam (totally unexpected, controversial, button-pushing, hype raising). TBH I may be happier with the latter – gets people talking (as long as they still recognize his mad talent.)

    After all — Kanye’s stunt may have been one of the best things to happen to Taylor Swift recently. Not that Adam should pull a Kanye (dear god no) but just saying that controversy sells. And Adam is a controversy magnet.

  108. I suspect these types of interviews are planned. I still think the add date was rushed and that FYE will get more adds next week. Most programming decisions are made in the tail end of the week and Adam’s song wasn’t out soon enough in the week last week to be included in those decisions. RCA knows how to release things, but they just need a bit of time to set things up.

    Kirsten – I was interested in hearing your take on this. I’m glad you agree (since I value your opinion on these matters) that the FYE add date seemed rushed – to come right after the release on Friday like that. I was having minor heart failure last night after the doom and gloom talk of Adam’s adds, but in context, just as we saw with Kris, and even established artists like Kelly and others, these things take more than just 2 days worth of advertising.

  109. jersey
    11/04/2009 at 1:00 pm
    It’s all in the eye of the beholder, LOL.

    I think it’s more like “Whatever makes you feel better.” LOL

  110. Well, imo Uprising was never going to kill on pop radio.

    But it wasn’t for lack of trying on their label’s part. It got a Pop add date.

  111. Color me confused….Now I’m not saying that Adam won’t be doing radio interviews, or that some “good” interviews aren’t helpful but I thought radio interviews were all about intoducing the singer to the listening audience.

    DJs rarely ask questions about the song…they are all about your lovelife or what you had for breakfast or your favorite color. I’ve listened to enough of them to note how little content they actually contain. And, as has been mentioned, interviews DO NOT guarantee radio play for any artist…they might help sales and “name” recognition but that is the best they can do.

    Now, it has been mentioned on this blog over and over that Adam is already way over-hyped. He has had magazine covers, 20/20 interview, a young hollywood award, his affiliation with 2012, announcee for the AMA nominations, red carpet appearances, a blurb on Oprah, and now the AMAs. I think he has pretty good name recognition. So if his “team” decides to market in another direction I don’t think that is at all bad. Ya know, different strokes for different folks.

  112. lets see how TFM sales hold up a month and half down the line before making any conclusions.

    Since you can legally download TfM on ITunes for free, (several versions of the MV), I’ll be shocked if anyone is buying it. I don’t think that we’ll be able to draw any conclusions from TfM sales, (or lack thereof),since it’s being given away legally. Can’t say I understand why they’re giving it away, but there is much I don’t understand about this business.

  113. Tess
    11/04/2009 at 1:23 pm
    Color me confused’ ¦.Now I’m not saying that Adam won’t be doing radio interviews, or that some ‘good’  interviews aren’t helpful but I thought radio interviews were all about intoducing the singer to the listening audience.

    Radio interviews these days seem to be about getting the station to play your record and not much else. Isn’t that what all the Jingle Balls, Station-sponsored concerts and in-station interviews result in? If you look at the tracking of a lot of spins, they seem to increase subsequent or immediately prior to on of these radio station promos. One hand washes the other in a not-at-all-payola kinda way.

  114. On the other hand, Muse had the VMAs and were hyped up the wazoo for Uprising and that didn’t do anything on Pop radio. So I guess anything could happen.

    Oh, I forgot about that. Wait, they were shooting for Pop for Uprising? I didn’t know they were aiming for Pop radio for Muse, cuz yeah, that didn’t work.

    Brian May really has no idea what a #1 international hit sounds like.

    He said that about TFM? Wow.

  115. I don’t think it’s an either or situation, both radio tours and national promotion like the AMAs are necessary to promote an artist and to help sell records. One of the advantages of radio promotion is getting the chance to endear an artist to Program Directors, as well as the possibility that stations will play a song so much in the weeks leading up to events like the Jingle Jam Balls, that that will help people learn who artists are, and it will help sell units. National events make people known to a wider audience, but it’s not a constant reminder like radio play.

    Adam is a new artist, despite all the over the top remarks that have been thrown at him, he’s not going to launch his career without doing a radio tour.

  116. Radio interviews these days seem to be about getting the station to play your record and not much else. Isn’t that what all the Jingle Balls, Station-sponsored concerts and in-station interviews result in? If you look at the tracking of a lot of spins, they seem to increase subsequent or immediately prior to on of these radio station promos. One hand washes the other in a not-at-all-payola kinda way.

    This is how you introduce an artist to people. Most people aren’t going to pay attention to or remember the interview, but they will start to recognize, and hopefully start connecting to a song that is played two or three times a day. Plus, playing the song a lot will reach a wider audience, much wider than the people who watch a three minute performance on an awards show.

  117. On the other hand, you can make a good impression the day (IIRC) before the album are released by performing your song on National TV. AMAs get good ratings too. Perfect timing for the first week.

  118. Did DCook do lots of radio interviews as Kris has been doing? I’m curious about that, too. Kris did another last night, and one early this morning. Seems like he’s talking to every DJ in the country’ ¦

    I don’t think this was answered, but no, the radio promo Kris has been doing DCook didn’t do.
    Actually, out of the 4 guys (and Jordin) Cook is the only one who didn’t have a radio debut for his single. I think he did a few phone interviews in October/November, but he only visited radio stations when his album dropped (and I think only the NY ones). Archie did the radio tour in October too (I think it was October) to push his single. It seems like the two labels work different.
    Light On had an internet debut, and from there radio had to start picking it, it wasn’t played on a leader major station from the start. So, I disagree when people say Light On’s sales didn’t help it. I think they showed interest for the song and put it on the radar which led radio to pick it.

  119. I was having minor heart failure last night after the doom and gloom talk of Adam’s adds, but in context, just as we saw with Kris, and even established artists like Kelly and others, these things take more than just 2 days worth of advertising.

    I think dooming and glooming about the adds yesterday is far too soon (and pessimistic). Even without adding this song, stations are spinning the song and sounding positive about it. Stations seem to add only a certain amount of songs per week and I think they’d already made their decisions last week before the song came out. I think that the real add date is next week (or maybe even the following week). Radio stations need time to schedule things.

    And nobody would accuse me of being a rabid Adam fangirl who is making excuses.

  120. I’m pretty sure I’m not totally making this up, cuz from what I could remember, The Fray premiered their live performance of You Found Me, the lead-in single for their latest album at the AMA’s last year and TOTALLY killed it. I remember there was mucho buzz about that performance afterwards, and the next thing you knew, I was hearing the song everywhere, and it blew up on radio and never looked back.

    Yeah, that’s true. But that song was also being used for the Lost promos and it was already getting buzz and being heard a lot because of that. I don’t think it exploded just because of the AMA performance, Lost helped it too.

  121. I don’t think that these numbers tell us a lot about Kris or Adam or the songs, even though we can see that the increased airplay has kept LLWD numbers very stable. The numbers do tell us that both Adam and Kris have hardcore fan bases that are the same size, and that neither has a fan base that is as big as previous idol alums. I don’t think that’s a big deal, especially since these people are trying to establish long careers that are about their music, not AI.

  122. Actually, out of the 4 guys (and Jordin) Cook is the only one who didn’t have a radio debut for his single. I think he did a few phone interviews in October/November, but he only visited radio stations when his album dropped (and I think only the NY ones). Archie did the radio tour in October too (I think it was October) to push his single. It seems like the two labels work different.

    I’m not sure that is label specific. I distinctly recall Daughtry hitting the radio stations as soon as they had music to release (for their debut album). The single wasn’t sent for adds until after the album was, but in the beginning of November (and maybe even October), they were making the radio rounds. I seem to recall Chris did some acoustic cover of something at one of those interviews (a common request) and it got spins for months (I think on other stations as well). The Daughtry fans used to taunt the Taylor fans with that (because Taylor didn’t get a single out until Feb, so he was getting fewer spins than an off-the-cuff acoustic cover). Oh, fanwars of years past.

    And Cookie did do some radio events/Jingle Balls. Daughtry didn’t for Christmas, but they did do a lot of the summer ones.

    Oh, and Allison is with Jive, but she didn’t do a radio premiere either, did she? Wasn’t it just up on somewhere for listening after her cellphone spoiler?

    So, I think strategies can vary even within companies.

    And yes, radio interviews don’t guarantee spins (I remember the Blake fans wondering why he was doing them for his second single since many of the stations he interviewed at didn’t even spin it once and I have to admit I don’t understand why a radio station would want to interview somebody they don’t intend to spin), but it generally helps.

  123. but i thought that its sales on the massive hype alone from brian may

    Well, in general, don’t younger people buy the most singles? (like, by far??)… and Brian May is an old guy who has, like, zero relevance to young people by any stretch of the imagination? …

    Plus, the only people who really know about hype from industry types are people who are already fans of a performer and thus look for the hype?

    Plus, the song is not “current.” And the only things that sell a lot of singles are current (except, sort of inexplicably to me, Glee…. but that gets massive tv exposure).

    So Adam really never got any TFM-related promotion that would sell singles, as far as I can tell.

  124. “Time for Miracles” had a 74% drop in the 2nd week? Damn. That’s one staggering free fall considering all of the non-radio promotion.

  125. I don’t think this was answered, but no, the radio promo Kris has been doing DCook didn’t do.

    I don’t know, leome. Maybe this is splitting hairs since it’s true that Cook didn’t do a radio “tour” per se, but he did a hell of a lot of phone interviews with stations during the promo period for his album. The DCO media archive has links to more than 35 different interviews during that time – and those are only the ones that the stations posted as podcasts or otherwise made available on their sites. I definitley think DC did a good mix of local-market and national promo appearances during that time, and I too would be surprised if some radio schmoozing is not part if the tactical plan for Adam.

  126. When LO started getting used in the AI commercials didn’t think help it a little?

  127. When LO started getting used in the AI commercials didn’t think help it a little?

    Yes, that probably helped. Anybody recall when those ads started? I seem to recall that it was a little later in the year (didn’t his video drop first?). Personally, I think the commercial was better than the video, but I’m not exactly LO’s biggest fan.

  128. Crap I can’t edit..I can’t remember a whole lot about radio interviews DC did last year, but I do remember Z100 didn’t add LO or start playing it at all until the day after he visited them the week he was promoting the album. That was an important visit considering the Z100 program director said a few weeks before the song wasnt even a good fit for them.

  129. The video and the commercial came out right around the same time. The AI commercial featuring Light On premiered on November 27th 2008. That was the same week that the video debuted at #1 on the VH1 Top 20 Countdown.

  130. S8 is very different from S7 because Cook was getting played for months before his album with the coronation single = TOML. It wasn’t a big Top 40 hit but did get lots of AC play. And I’m pretty sure it was on its way to platinum by the time the album dropped. So it’s very hard to comare Kris and Adam who got very little airplay from NB.

  131. TOML had plenty of its own promo – Oprah, Olympics etc. so Cook didn’t need to hit radio so hard. I’m sure next week Adam will do a gazillion interviews and will be added on many more stations.

  132. if – if – david cook or archuleta, or any previous idol winner or runner up had received the same level of media hype and attention as adam, i wonder how much larger their opening numbers would have been, as well as their cumulative numbers… no fanwar flaming, just a real question that has crossed my mind… no matter now, as the past is the past, but i daresay both cook and archuleta had some baggage to overcome selling /promoting themselves to the idol and non idol buying public, w/o massive amounts of media helping pave the way… cook had his, archuleta was practically written off as not being ”current” or mainstream sounding enough to appeal out in the big bad music world, but both managed to post some impressive numbers from the get go, and build up their presence to sustain their sales… there was such a frenzy of comments praising folks like brian may and these others when they made their pronouncements about tfm… old guy or not, past his prime or not, may has gravitas that have a long reach in the musical sphere, and having him or someone of his caliber making such a pronouncement, for me, is pretty major… it made me pay close attention to the song, because someone of his stature said what he said… for a new artist to even be on the radar of may is promotion that is invaluable, which is why i am surprised, so far, to not see this sort of gold label ”promotion” and media presence not translate into higher numbers…

  133. Personally, I think the commercial was better than the video, but I’m not exactly LO’s biggest fan.

    Nope I completely agree. I LOVE that commercial, I got chills the first time I saw it. The LO video was a huge WTF for me.

  134. (I can’t edit so sorry for all the posts). Cook had great promo last year. As I said TOML was used for the Olympics, etc. And he was on SNL, special pre show at the AMA. So I’d say he’s still ahead of Adam in that area. Although (come to think of it) I don’t remember seeing Cook on the cover of EW, Rolling Stone or Details. Hmmm

    Archie really just had his teen fanbase to buy the downloads. His promo was really nothing special – usual radio promo and Jingle Balls. Very similiar to what Kris has so far.

  135. Archie really just had his teen fanbase to buy the downloads. His promo was really nothing special ‘“ usual radio promo and Jingle Balls. Very similiar to what Kris has so far.

    Archie also got to go on a parade that got Rick-rolled. LOL.

  136. Oh, and Allison is with Jive, but she didn’t do a radio premiere either, did she?

    No she didn’t. She actually got the same as Light On get, a debut on Popeater.
    And yeah, I think you’re right. It’s probably more an artist to artist thing than label.

    Maybe this is splitting hairs since it’s true that Cook didn’t do a radio ‘tour’  per se, but he did a hell of a lot of phone interviews with stations during the promo period for his album.

    Yeah, that’s right. I remember him doing interviews. I just think there’s a difference between calling and being there. I mean, when the single was released Kris went on Z100, WPLJ, KISS, he had OHP and since then he has been to other station, as far as I know. I remember David doing some phone interviews, but not actually visiting the stations (at least not until his album dropped). I think there’s a difference between calling and being there on a radio tour. Not that stations will add the song to their playlist just cause you were there though, but it’s still a better way to sell your music.

    I too would be surprised if some radio schmoozing is not part if the tactical plan for Adam.

    Yeah, me too. His single was just released, I think it’s a matter of time.

  137. ggdoorsfan, I think some things to keep in mind are that a lot of the promotion that Adam has gotten has nothing to do with his music. So, while those who are not AI fans are aware of his name, they really don’t know anything about what style of music he makes or even what he sounds like. The promotion that Adam has gotten so far will translate into name recognition, and will help once stations begin to play his music, but as we have seen, this type of promotion isn’t going to help sells right off the bat, especially without any radio play to back it up.

    This is why it’s funny when I hear people mention all the promo that Adam has gotten and compare it to Kris, yes, it’s true that Kris hasn’t gotten the media attention, but when he has, the focus has always been on his music, which will help in Kris connecting with those music buyers who like and want to buy his singles and album.

  138. very similar jpfan – no one knows how it will all end up, but in the long run, i guess it just shows that it’s all a crapshoot, all the promo and hype in the world can’t guarantee success, nor does less promo or hype guarantee that one can or will not be successful… you still have to put in the work, and grind it out to build your presence, airplay, sales, etc.

  139. What does Rick-rolled mean???

    It was an internet thing that was a craze a while ago. I think it started out on some gaming site. Somebody would post “OMFG! It Leaked” or some such thing and the link would take you to Rick Astley singing “Never Going to Give You Up” (originally, the joke was to take you to a picture of a rolling duck toy, but then it became Rick Astley- henc the name Rick-rolled). Basically, post something tempting and then people fall for the bait and switch.

    Anyway, during last year’s Macy parade, they had a float that started out with some characters from the Cartoon Network and suddenly Rick Astley came out and sang. So, they Rick-rolled the parade. Internet spoiler hunters were amused, but the rest of the world just went WTF?

  140. if ‘“ if ‘“ david cook or archuleta, or any previous idol winner or runner up had received the same level of media hype and attention as adam, i wonder how much larger their opening numbers would have been, as well as their cumulative numbers’ ¦

    I think we should wait to see if the media hype really pay off, because I never got the expectation that some fans have about that.
    I never got interested in an artist just by reading or hearing about him without having music connecting to it.

  141. david a’s segment wasn’t rick rolled, was it kirsten – i can’t dis-remember, hahahah… rick astley popped up in the middle of someone’s segment, can’t remember whose :D

  142. Cook had great promo last year. As I said TOML was used for the Olympics, etc. And he was on SNL, special pre show at the AMA. So I’d say he’s still ahead of Adam in that area. Although (come to think of it) I don’t remember seeing Cook on the cover of EW, Rolling Stone or Details. Hmmm

    Cook’s still ahead of Adam in what area? Because TOML got used for the Olympics? Are you using “promo” to mean label-arranged promotional efforts though? Cuz if so, I don’t think the label arranged for TOML to be used in the Olympics. It just happened. In terms of label/management arranged gigs, yeah DC got SNL and the AMA preshow, but AMA actual show trumps the preshow, and I’d bet you anything RCA tried to get Adam on SNL. And nope, DC didn’t get all the magazine covers, Adam got, or the many many hot industry people and collaborators praising him to the media that Adam got. Adam has way more buzz than DC did at this point last year. I personally don’t think DC was “ahead of Adam” in any promotional area.

  143. I haven’t gone back through all the comments, but what general impact does the release of the music video have on airplay/sales? Just curious.

    Re: the type of promo Adam has been doing vs. Kris, and other Idols before. My observation is that Kris is being marketed as “New Artist” (not necessarily “Idol Winner”) and Adam is being marketed as “Personality” with not a lot of focus on the actual music so far. Two completely different approaches at this point. While Kris is doing smallish concerts/radio interviews/Jingle Balls, Adam so far is doing the “being seen” thing – red carpet events, provocative magazine covers, personal life details, etc. It will be interesting to see if his promotional strategy shifts to try to make it less about him and more about his music.

  144. I have to admit I don’t understand why a radio station would want to interview somebody they don’t intend to spin),

    They need something to put on the air to improve the dj’s banter, I think. They can reel in extra listeners by having these “special interviews’ with people whose music they never intend to play — give listeners something a little more meaty to listen to than the djs just spewing sophomoric jokes about the same topics every morning. The interviews really are a service to teh stations that the record labels know they have to provide to get even the least *shot* at getting radio play. …. Even though most of the interviews never pay off with any play…. Radio is *in* *charge.*

  145. I never got interested in an artist just by reading or hearing about him without having music connecting to it.

    there was/is music accessible from adam to make a connection, via may’s comments… granted, not everyone watches idol, but during the season’s run, he was a name… he also had video of other songs and performances out there on you tube, so there were reference points for casual listeners to access him for a connection… i’ve found about some great singers and artists, unknown to me, by comments from other stars, which led to doing the research to find out about them… and seek out their music… all to say there are segments of the public, and music lovers, who listen to statements like may’s, and act on them… dunno the percentage, but they’re out there…

  146. And nope, DC didn’t get all the magazine covers, Adam got, or the many many hot industry people and collaborators praising him to the media that Adam got. Adam has way more buzz than DC did at this point last year. I personally don’t think DC was ‘ahead of Adam’  in any promotional area.

    Maybe the industry and RCA thinks that Adam needs the hype more to counteract the other issues that he has to get to mainstream success. I’ve noticed reading other sites and articles that come out on the internet about Adam that you’ve got a pretty heavy lifestyle backlash that seems to permeate every comment section. Maybe RCA/Sony realizes Adam needs more promo than other artists coming from AI might.

  147. I think some things to keep in mind are that a lot of the promotion that Adam has gotten has nothing to do with his music. So, while those who are not AI fans are aware of his name, they really don’t know anything about what style of music he makes or even what he sounds like.

    Actually, that’s not true. I think a lot of the press relates to the music. There’s been press about Rivers Cuomo talking about Adam’s singing, press about Lady Gaga working with him and giving him a song, and press about a whole host of his collaborators praising his range, voice, vision. A lot of this press is being regurgitated ad nauseum by radio DJ’s, so yeah, people are getting a good sense of what to expect from Adam musically. Even the magazine articles help paint a portrait of this daring, out-there artist, talk about glam rock/dance pop, etc. which all help to prepare the general public for the album.

  148. I haven’t gone back through all the comments, but what general impact does the release of the music video have on airplay/sales? Just curious.

    I don’t know but my impression is “less and less as the years go on.” As in — you still have to make videos, but they aren’t played or watched nearly as much these days, so they don’t seem to make a big difference for anybody.

  149. leome,
    After the KISS fm interview, all the radio interviews Kris has done has been the phone-in type, apart from the two he did in Florida.

  150. I don’t know but my impression is ‘less and less as the years go on.’  As in ‘” you still have to make videos, but they aren’t played or watched nearly as much these days, so they don’t seem to make a big difference for anybody.

    Even though MTV and VH1 aren’t playing any videos, youtube has become very popular in terms of watching videos, and to a lesser degree, so have on demand video channels like music choice, as well as yahoo and aol video channels.

    sma11ie, we’ll have to disagree. There is a huge difference between what you listed and Details, RS, and some of the other attention that Adam has gotten. As someone said earlier, only those who are already fans are going to know about the Gaga and May talk, but those in the mainstream have just heard about or seen the other stuff. They may know that Adam is supposed to be the next big thing, but they don’t know why.

    I don’t think that RCA needs to worry about anyone who is bigoted enough to not buy Adam’s music because of his sexaulity, but I do wonder if they are buying into the hype and why. It seems to me that promoting Adam like he’s a big star who has already made it, instead of like other new artists, is a big mistake. I know some of Adam’s fans were brought back down to reality by the sales for TFM, but I think there’s something to be worried about if RCA was also surprised.

  151. As someone said earlier, only those who are already fans are going to know about the Gaga and May talk, but those in the mainstream have just heard about or seen the other stuff.

    How can you say only those who are already fans know about Gaga and May talk when all these big pop station DJs with huge audiences have been talking about these news items? These are pop stations in large markets, during the morning rush, plus syndicated shows like Ryan Seacrest’s show (he mentioned the Gaga collab just this week during his Top 40 countdown). Now I’m hearing DJs talk about Rivers Cuomo’s comments. I dunno, these radio stations DO reach their normal listeners when they talk about Adam, and not just Adam fans, you know.

  152. How can you say only those who are already fans know about Gaga and May talk when all these big pop station DJs with huge audiences have been talking about these news items? These are pop stations in large markets, during the morning rush, plus syndicated shows like Ryan Seacrest’s show (he mentioned the Gaga collab just this week during his Top 40 countdown). Now I’m hearing DJs talk about Rivers Cuomo’s comments. I dunno, these radio stations DO reach their normal listeners when they talk about Adam, and not just Adam fans, you know.

    None of the djs in my area have talked about these things, but maybe they didn’t get the memo of how big Adam is. (Just kidding). This is nice that some djs have been talking about it, but again, I don’t think you can compare this to national coverage in magazines, especially since I don’t think it’s just stations in my area who are not talking about this. Either way, the talk didn’t help sales of TFM.

  153. I think it’s possible that Kris is being marketed as a “new artist,” although if he hadn’t won AI, I doubt he’d be marketed much at all, so it’s more like he’s being marketed as “American Idol winner new artist,” a category all its own.

    Adam seems to be marketed as “new star,” which isn’t the same as “personality”old or new. He’s been getting the hot new star treatment from RCA (all those top level people working on his CD), and from the media, and he has since he was on AI.

    My guess is whichever 19 is in control of Adam’s career sees the singles, even the CD, as just part of a larger package. They could be envisioning Adam The Concert Star (a role he could play for many many years) or Adam The Movie Star, or some other variant of Adam The Star Who Also Happens To Sing.

    Maybe it will work out and maybe it won”t (the same is true for Kris). But at this point, there’s no big career announcement about Adam that will shock me. I may be cheerfully surprised, but not shocked.

  154. I don’t remember seeing Cook on the cover of EW, Rolling Stone or Details. Hmmm

    Cook was on the cover of Entertainment Weekly, I think. But, it was right at top three week on AI and also featured Archie and Syesha. However, Cook was in the middle and more prominent. Before this recent Adam feature, I’d never even heard of Details, so I honestly don’t know why Cook would even be on its cover. As for Rolling Stone, they’ve generally treated Cook politely but distantly. He’ll have to sell millions more to get their attention I’m guessing and, by that time, they might not even be in business … or not in the same way.

    DC didn’t get all the magazine covers,

    A lot of the initial attention Adam was getting emphasized his lifestyle and his willingness to talk about it. As others have said in this thread, there’s a been a big push to sell “Adam,” as opposed to the music.

  155. It’s hard to edit on here, today. I meant to say that random djs talking about artists collaborating with Adam is not the same as the label setting up promotional opportunities as Adam announcing the AMA nominees or being seen on a red carpet.

  156. alaadam
    11/04/2009 at 12:02 pm
    Adam Lambert, Time for Miracles (12,000, -74 percent, 59,000)
    Kris Allen, Live Like We’re Dying (10,000, +3 percent, 83,000)

    This is interesting. Adam sells 12,000 without any radio play. Kris sells 10,000 with tons of radio play and adds. Hmmmmm!

    You know, I’m just seeing this and it begs a question: shouldn’t Kris be selling more as the radio plays increase?

    I get that he initially had a bigger second week with LLWD than Adam has had with TFM:

    Kirsten
    Second week numbers for recent first post-Idol singles:
    63 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  23,552 (49%; lw 15,755) Total: 39,307 (93)

    But now that Kris is in regular rotation at 90 stations, shouldn’t sales be more than 10,000 a week? Is this typical – not of an Idol – of a new artist? Guess I’m just wondering what we have to look forward to for FYE sales down the road.

  157. CindyM
    11/04/2009 at 2:59 pm
    And nope, DC didn’t get all the magazine covers, Adam got, or the many many hot industry people and collaborators praising him to the media that Adam got. Adam has way more buzz than DC did at this point last year. I personally don’t think DC was ‘ahead of Adam’  in any promotional area.

    Maybe the industry and RCA thinks that Adam needs the hype more to counteract the other issues that he has to get to mainstream success. I’ve noticed reading other sites and articles that come out on the internet about Adam that you’ve got a pretty heavy lifestyle backlash that seems to permeate every comment section. Maybe RCA/Sony realizes Adam needs more promo than other artists coming from AI might.

    This was my first thought, Cindy. I think the bigwigs know Adam has the potential to be a super star, even iconic, but the mainstream of America has to be “sold” on an openly gay artist. They’re selling “Adam– the artist””Adam– the gay guy who can really sang.”

  158. oops can’t edit… a few words got left out of my post.. it should read:

    They’e selling “Adam–the Artist” as opposed to “Adam– the gay guy who can sang.”

    Adam’s openness about his sexuality is brilliant– it takes some of the thunder away from those who would weld it as a weapon aganst him.

  159. It’s hard to edit on here, today. I meant to say that random djs talking about artists collaborating with Adam is not the same as the label setting up promotional opportunities as Adam announcing the AMA nominees or being seen on a red carpet.

    I’m not talking random DJs. I’ve heard reports, here on MJs about these mentions in the NY, DC, LA markets, and like I said, Ryan’s show is syndicated nationally. And we’ve been harping on the importance of radioplay ad nauseum on these threads– cuz national TV promo is great, but it stops. Consistent and sustained radio presence is what it takes to make a lasting impression on the listening public. If radio listeners don’t matter to you as much as the TV viewers, then I don’t know that I can convince you otherwise. My point was that the fact that DJs for big radio stations across the country are willing to continually talk about Adam in relation to his new music, sets things up nicely for them to talk him up a bit when they spin his song, and provides listeners more context when they hear it. I’m just saying, this kind of stuff helps prepare the public for Adam’s music, and helps his music make an impression when they hear it.

    And besides, the promo opportunities RCA set up for Adam, like announcing the AMAs and the red carpets ALL result in interviews, some of which are actually about the music and his new album. I don’t get this insistence that people aren’t hearing about Adam’s music.

    Cook was on the cover of Entertainment Weekly, I think. But, it was right at top three week on AI and also featured Archie and Syesha. However, Cook was in the middle and more prominent.

    I think that was the TV Guide. Did DC and Archie get an EW cover? Maybe top 4 got a cover, I don’t remember…

  160. LLWD is the only song whose sales were increasing last week :) Its itune # is a notch higher in general. I think airplay and radio interviews gradually start making impact on sales.

  161. rowenaaine, it’s been pointed out that Kris’ sales are acutally higher than the sales for songs that have identical spins. Without the spins, LLWD would be a lot lower than 10,000 and the song would have seen a massive drop in sales just like TFM did. While we can compare LLWD to songs that came out at the same time, or songs with similar Audience impressions and spins, I don’t think we can say that LLWD is on X number of stations so it should be selling X number of units.

    Also, all the talk of marketing Adam as a star is a little funny, considering that so far his music has taken a back seat to all of the other stuff that he’s done. I would think that highlighting that would be a first step in trying to establish that he’s a star. The talk of Adam selling out stadiums, reminds me that during the year that he won Taylor Hicks was in the top 15 as far as concert ticket sales. His name was right up there with some very big names. But, because radio stations wouldn’t play his music, he now has a cameo appearance in the touring show of Grease.

  162. No, EW did not do an Idol cover story at all for S7. I’m pretty sure it’s the only season that they didn’t.

  163. I’m not talking random DJs. I’ve heard reports, here on MJs about these mentions in the NY, DC, LA markets, and like I said, Ryan’s show is syndicated nationally. And we’ve been harping on the importance of radioplay ad nauseum on these threads’“ cuz national TV promo is great, but it stops. Consistent and sustained radio presence is what it takes to make a lasting impression on the listening public. If radio listeners don’t matter to you as much as the TV viewers, then I don’t know that I can convince you otherwise. My point was that the fact that DJs for big radio stations across the country are willing to continually talk about Adam in relation to his new music, sets things up nicely for them to talk him up a bit when they spin his song, and provides listeners more context when they hear it. I’m just saying, this kind of stuff helps prepare the public for Adam’s music, and helps his music make an impression when they hear it.

    I know that radio matters, you are preaching to the choir in regards to that, that’s why I didn’t understand why Adam fans harped so much on gossip sites that focused on Adam and his boyfriend, or magazines that did pages and pages on Adam, but not once did they mention his music.

    That being said, there’s a big difference between djs mentioning someones name, and actually playing someone’s music. BTW, I think another thing that people have been confused about is how much people really care about the name dropping in relation to Adam. BTW, a dj being located in LA still makes him a random dj, especially since that market is still just one market. LLWD is being played on 90 stations, but that’s still just a drop in the bucket. There are many states, cities, and markets where the song isn’t being played, so saying that a dj in LA said something isn’t the same thing as saying that Adam is interviewed in a national magazine, and not once do they talk about his music.

  164. On the topic of djs talking about Adam during rush time and his music etc., I have to say, and this is just my personal experience, when I’m driving, I don’t really pay much attention to the djs unless their talking about something I really want to know about. Obviously, if they mentioned Adam, I would listen because I’m pre-disposed to. If I wasn’t and Idol aholic, I don’t know that I would give it a second thought.
    I do think that interviews with the artists draw attention more than casual conversations between djs. JMO.

  165. HDD one-day predictions are in and it looks like Carrie will be the champion again. They are predicting that she’ll move between 300-350K. Wow!

    The kids from Glee are expected to sell between 100-125K. Now 32 which has a bunch of Idols on it (including Kat), is expected to sell 80-100K

    Here are the people that have sold greater than 300K in a week this year (from Pulse):

    U2
    Em
    Maxwell
    Whitney
    JayZ
    Michael Jackson
    BEP
    Dave Matthews Band
    Rascal Flatts

    First week for previous Carrie albums:
    “Carnival Ride” Carrie Underwood 527,101 #1 10/07
    “Some Hearts” Carrie Underwood 314,549 #2 12/3/05

  166. But now that Kris is in regular rotation at 90 stations, shouldn’t sales be more than 10,000 a week? Is this typical ‘“ not of an Idol ‘“ of a new artist? Guess I’m just wondering what we have to look forward to for FYE sales down the road.

    I wouldn’t say he’s in regular rotation on 90 stations. 90 stations may be playing him but many of them could only be around 10 spins a week, which is a little more than one spin a day. Take into account the time of day that the song is played and depending on that you also have a higher or lower chance of actually being heard. It’s all chance. If you listen to the radio for two or three hours, chances are you won’t be hearing LLWD, unless your station spins the hell out of it. I don’t know many people who listen to radio for longer than that.

    Like I said last week, his sales are increasing. The 10,000 people who bought the song are not buying it this week. This time around, a new set of 10,000 people bought it. The digital singles chart isn’t cumulative. On Monday morning at 12:00 AM all songs are reset back to zero for their download totals for the week. Whatever they accrue over the next seven days is their new total. He has seen steady increases for the past couple weeks now, increases that are in line with his radio increases. He’s only just now reaching top 40 on the CHR chart.

  167. So, since Adam’s not getting promotion with regard to his music, only his personality and TFM isn’t getting spins or radio exposure and the video didn’t end up showing before This Is It, I guess 12,000 sold this week isn’t bad. Cool!

  168. BTW, a dj being located in LA still makes him a random dj, especially since that market is still just one market.

    LA’s a huge market. And like I said, shows like Ryan’s are syndicated nationally. And having pop stations in big markets mention Adam news about his music isn’t OMG everything, but it DOES position him better than 99% of the other new artists, Idols included, who don’t get the benefit of such radio station interest. I understand you’re complaining that there’s been a lot of media on Adam not focused on the music, but there’s media on the music too, and I don’t quite get the complaints that oh noes, the media coverage isn’t ALL about the music, when the fact that there is any good media about the music is already a huge bonus.

  169. Tremendous projections for Carrie. With the momentum she’ll have going into the holiday season, she’ll be unstoppable.

  170. I expect 19/RCA to make aggressive use of TV, online and print to promote Adam. Radio airplay has been very hard for openly gay artists to get in the US — Adam could be an exception because of Idol but I will believe it when I hear him on the radio in Tupelo, MS — where Bravo and LOGO are not available on Comcast Cable because they actively promote “gay lifestyles” — but we get a lot of 19/Idol music. And I think that will make sure there is a broad promo mix to support Adam’s album launch. [I am so glad that Project Runway moved to Lifetime!]

  171. Those numbers for carrie are very good considering the economy. If I recollect correctly, her first week sales for her previous 2 albums were similar in number so its very good. Taylor Swift, however, moved over 700,000 albums her first week. Her label did a great marketing strategy by having her album the first week on ITunes for 3.99. Im sure that sold a slew of albums for that major discounted price.

  172. The “Rivers Cuomo” thing is a perfect example of crappy PR. River *who*? The lead singer of a 90s band with a novelty video from a decade ago, and one *really* annoying minor recent hit?

    On another front, ENUFF with all this “Doctor Luke, Max Martin, Ryan Tedder” stuff!, Music Industry! How many freaking releases and items have been run on this sort of stuff for all three of this year’s Idols?

    Sure, in the studio, the producers and songwriters are key–but the public doesn’t know or care who they are! Six million people bought Daughtry’s album, they don’t know who Howard Benson is.

    The listening audience cares knows artists through songs (see Glee), not through songwriters and producers.

    If you want to set up the relationship that “if you like Lady GaGa and Katy Perry and One Republic, you might like Adam Lambert”, grab a video cam and a mike and do a low tech video of them singing together!

    It could be the 19E offices or the cubicles at Rolling Stone or EW or a bar, it doesn’t have to cost anything. Then put it on YouTube. How come there’s a video with kabillion of hits with Daughtry singing PokerFace & not something like that for the GaGanian Heir Apparent?

    Get some of these top acts you want to mentally link in consumers minds to the new guy or girl to invite them onstage for a number (Like the Cook thing at GMA) and thousands more people will view it then read another press release that “(So and so) really loves working with our new singer.”

    Yeah, it would be a cover, so what, the idea for now is establish “if you like this singer, you may love that singer” and that’s one you have to establish through music.

    These are singers, godammit, promote them through music not more words! Siiiiiiiing!!!!!!

  173. So, since Adam’s not getting promotion with regard to his music, only his personality and TFM isn’t getting spins or radio exposure and the video didn’t end up showing before This Is It, I guess 12,000 sold this week isn’t bad. Cool!

    No, it’s not. But, it does show that those 12,000 units sold didn’t have a lot to do with the song, and probably had more to do with Adam being on AI and his hardcore AI fanbase. Just like the Davids’ 100,000+ plus sales had more to do with AI than their radio spins, and connection to none AI fans, and the same for Kris and the 30,000+ that he sold during a similar time frame.

    The low figure does throw into question all the talk about Adam already being a star, having a large fan base, and already having connected with those who don’t watch AI.

  174. Radio airplay has been very hard for openly gay artists to get in the US ‘” Adam could be an exception because of Idol but I will believe it when I hear him on the radio in Tupelo, MS

    Do those places not play Elton John, George Michael, R.E.M., Queen, Melissa Etheridge?

    I mean, it’s always apples to oranges when you talk about classic acts that are already hits, and that those singers officially came out in the course of their careers rather then the start. But I’m always surprised at the extent to which openly queer artists, through the magic of pop and celebrity, are everywhere from Disney to the ballgame . . .

  175. The ‘Rivers Cuomo’  thing is a perfect example of crappy PR. River *who*? The lead singer of a 90s band with a novelty video from a decade ago, and one *really* annoying minor recent hit?

    You’re really hurting my heart right now, maturin. C’mon, everyone I know that’s my age knows Weezer! And the younger kids do too from guitar hero and what not. They actually are still relevant in that get a lot of music industry coverage simply because they are so WTF with their projects. Yeah, no one knows who Max Martin or Dr Luke or Howard Benson is, which is why I actually think Adam getting associated with musicians like Weezer, Pink, Lady Gaga, are good things to drive to the public.

  176. Q3, if I’m not mistaken aren’t a lot of those Tupelo stations run by Clear Channel, and using music services for a lot of their content? I know that’s the case in the Columbus/Starkville market.

  177. David Archuleta, Christmas From the Heart (7,000, -4 percent, 31,000)

    3rd week sales just in from idol chatter – the cd is holding very steady going into the meat of the holiday season, and the requisite promotion… very nice, very nice…

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/‘ ¦.ions-are-king/1

  178. I hope people do realize that marketing is lit at both ends of the candle. Sometimes in order to get a “name” in front of the public the PR team has to search for people willing to give their artist the time of day. Sometimes it means “force feeding” them to program directors and djs. Othertimes a singer’s PR team has laid some pretty good groundwork and the “name” is recognizable. Then peeps are calling the artist’s people to set up interviews, and photo shoots, and a few seconds of their time on a radio station.

    We will never be privy as to which end the candle is being lit for Kris or Adam. But if I was a PR guy my first instinct would be to get “name recognition” and “image” out in the forefront. Push, push, push to get people to recognize your product and then when the music hits…if it’s good you have a bonafide winner. If the music sucks you walk away with your tail between your legs.

    So most PR peeps surround themselves with experts who have a handle on what sells and what the public wants…and before they put their guys name on everyone’s lips they are 75% sure that there is substance behind the name.

    Neither way of marketing is the right way just a way. Having the music sell the person is just as valid as the person selling the music. A little more risky to market the person first…but if the music is good the benefits far outway the risks.

  179. None of the djs in my area have talked about these things, but maybe they didn’t get the memo of how big Adam is. (Just kidding).

    I live in the SF Bay Area and Adam has been talked about by DJs on a top HAC station I listen to in the mornings — along with the other celebrity gossip stuff — and it is related to his music and collaborators/praise from industry vets, etc. It’s gotten to the point where the DJs are asking, what about the guy that won? So I do think Adam’s press/promo at this point (1) at least creates awareness for lots of music listeners that he’s got an album coming out (which is 90% of the battle) and (2) gets people who are not closed off to AI artists to possibly give him a listen when his first single is spun on the radio or when his album is released. That is huge! Yes, he is more of a celebrity now but he is also known as a celebrity who has an album coming out soon — who incidentally has been getting lots of praise from industry vets. That’s good stuff IMO.

    Also, in his chosen genre (pop), aren’t the big names really celebrities/singers (see Britney, Rihanna, Gaga, etc.)? So, to me, it seems he’s getting exactly the type of promo that seems appropriate for his genre — with a serving of cred on the side with the industry praise for his voice, range, talent, etc.

  180. I live in the SF Bay Area and Adam has been talked about by DJs on a top HAC station I listen to in the mornings ‘” along with the other celebrity gossip stuff ‘” and it is related to his music and collaborators/praise from industry vets, etc. It’s gotten to the point where the DJs are asking, what about the guy that won?

    This shouldn’t be news, but the SF Bay Area isn’t the whole country. Saying that something is happening in just one area, so that means’ it translates to the whole country makes no sense. I bet the people in NY City who hear LLWD every two to three hours on the radio don’t have a problem knowing what happened to Kris Allen, but those who live in LA, where the song isn’t on the radio yet, might be.

    BTW, there are plenty of singers who are selling records and getting airplay without being mentioned in the gossip pages. The Taylor Swift Storm that happened last week, as well as the fact that she was being over played in two different genres even before Kanye pulled his stunt, shows that there more than one way to sell records.

  181. Q3, if I’m not mistaken aren’t a lot of those Tupelo stations run by Clear Channel, and using music services for a lot of their content? I know that’s the case in the Columbus/Starkville market.

    Yes, we have a lot of Clear Channel stations but very conservative programming. The American Family Association is HQ in Tupelo and they have a lot of influence.

    But I have been pleased to see 3 CChannel station put FYE on thier playlists.

  182. This shouldn’t be news, but the SF Bay Area isn’t the whole country.

    This seems self evident. I don’t think anyone was trying to claim one city’s market represents the country as a whole.

  183. Go, Carrie!

    I saw some questions above about Magic Rainbow’s performance. It hit platinum shortly before DC’s record went on sale. I remember being worried that “Complete my album” would prevent the Rainbow from keeping that platinum status. After which the Rainbow cheerfully stacked on another 200K in singles sales. Cuz that’s what the Rainbow does.

    I also saw some mentions about the Rainbow’s performance on CHR. It peaked at #28, but hung out in the top 40 for 18 weeks. This DCO thread has links to various Rainbow resources, including LadyM’s sales charts, a chart tracking the Rainbow’s radio charts (with certain benchmarks), etc.

  184. This shouldn’t be news, but the SF Bay Area isn’t the whole country. Saying that something is happening in just one area, so that means’ it translates to the whole country makes no sense.

    I wasn’t trying to argue that it did, though I was trying to back up smallie’s point that major market DJs were talking about Adam about things related to his music — such as collaborations and praise from established artists like Brian May and Rivers Cuomo, etc. She had cited LA, NY, DC and I was just adding SF (SF, San Jose, Oakland area) into the list of major markets that had radio stations discussing Adam (i.e., priming the listeners’ pumps).

  185. I was at the store today and they play soft rock and heard Kris’s LLWD and my friend and I stopped in the middle of the aisle and said “Listen…it’s Kris”. We stayed around the aisle till the song was over. We were really pleasantly surprised.

  186. I wasn’t trying to argue that it did, though I was trying to back up smallie’s point that major market DJs were talking about Adam about things related to his music ‘” such as collaborations and praise from established artists like Brian May and Rivers Cuomo, etc. She had cited LA, NY, DC and I was just adding SF (SF, San Jose, Oakland area) into the list of major markets that had radio stations discussing Adam (i.e., priming the listeners’ pumps).

    Thank you. I happen to think we’ve made our case, but that’s just me. Regardless, done arguing in circles, sigh =P.

  187. tinydance ”
    I was at the store today and they play soft rock and heard Kris’s LLWD and my friend and I stopped in the middle of the aisle and said ‘Listen’ ¦it’s Kris’ . We stayed around the aisle till the song was over. We were really pleasantly surprised.”

    Lucky you! Till today I haven’t heard LLWD on radios or anywhere. :(

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