Idol Sales News – Week Ending 01/31/10

If there is a theme this week, it appears to be “steady as she goes”. Most of the Idols sold pretty much what they sold the previous week (at least on the download chart). The two exceptions are Jennifer’s charity single which was up 80% (its first week was a partial sales week) and the General’s “Pants on the Ground” which was up 53%. So far, he’s dominating the Season 9 download chart.

Billboard date 02/13/2010

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Digital Downloads
22 Kris Allen “Live Like We’re Dying” 63, 329 (-3%; lw 65, 325) Total: 748, 716 (23)
25 Adam Lambert “Whataya Want From Me” 58, 433 (-2%; lw 59, 421) Total: 323, 978 (29)
50 Daughtry “Life After You” 34, 296 (6%; lw 32, 338) Total: 340, 233 (61)
72 Jennifer Hudson Feat. The Root “Let it Be (Hope For Haiti)” 26, 304 (80%; lw 14, 626) Total: 40, 930 (142)
113 Carrie Underwood “Temporary Home” 16, 889 (-1%; lw 17, 041) Total: 145, 630 (119)
115 General Larry Platt “Pants on the Ground” 16, 657 (53%; lw 10, 863) Total: 27, 520 (194)

Airplay before recurrents are removed (increase in audience impressions):
No. 33 – Kris Allen (+2.6 million)
No. 60 – Carrie Underwood (+1.9 million)
No. 69 – Adam Lambert (+5.0 million)
No. 70 – Daughty (+1.5 million)

Streaming:
No. 3 Already Gone

Please post numbers as you find them. Thanks!

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

311 Comments

  1. If Adam and Kris can continue to sell at this rate (and that’s never guaranteed), Adam will be gold in about 3 weeks and Kris will be platinum in about four. Given single sales didn’t exactly explode out of the blocks for Season 8, that’s a nice sign that they can both likely be handed certified plaques when they show up to sing on the show in March/April (even if download sales stall, Adam already qualifies for a gold album certification prior to reaching that sales level which he should reach in a week or two and Kris’s single is already gold).

    I’d give these guys a few extra weeks (or maybe even a couple of months) to reach those levels, though, because it’s hard to stay at this sales level for a sustained period of time.

    And impressive AI increase for Adam. Those Z100 spins really pack a powerful punch (and the spincrease in general doesn’t hurt).

  2. Idol Chatter

    Various, 2010 Grammy Nominees (45,000, -7 percent, 94,000 total)
    Kidz Bop Kids, Kidz Bop 17 (feat. Battlefield) (36,000, debut, 36,000)
    Carrie Underwood, Play On (18,000, +2 percent, 1.263 million)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Music! 32 (18,000, -8 percent, 750,000)
    Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment (15,000, -22 percent, 492,000)
    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 2 (12,000, -27 percent, 499,000)
    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 1 (10,000, -29 percent, 703,000)
    Daughtry, Leave This Town (9,000, +7 percent, 916,000)
    Various, WOW Hits 2010 (7,000, -5 percent, 275,000)
    Kris Allen, Kris Allen (5,000, -7 percent, 250,000)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Music! 31 (5,000, +1 percent, 867,000)
    Rod Stewart, Soulbook (4,000, -14 percent, 345,000)
    Carrie Underwood, Some Hearts (3,000, +20 percent, 6.929 million)
    Daughtry, Daughtry (3,000, +4 percent, 4.626 million)

    Adam sold 19,618 copies of his album week before, so 22% drop would mean around 15,300 copies this week.

  3. Great update for WWFM! #22 in Pop!

    POP:
    26 22 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 2740 2325 415 19.936
    +78 Spins
    +40 Bullet
    +0.825 AI

    HAC:
    33 30 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 579 433 146 2.013
    +23 Spins
    +22 Bullet
    +0.056 AI

  4. For us lucky New Yorkers, WWFM get regular play on both Z100 & WBLI. Shortens my commute. Thank you!

  5. Really great news for Adam! Everything is really moving in the right direction.

  6. Phew! I’m so glad Adam sold about 15K this week! I was afraid there would be a bigger drop because last week’s 20K were considered the Oprah bump…
    So if all goes well- his album will be undisputedly GOLD next week! Yay Adam!

    And good for Kris for those great single sales he’s been getting for a while now!

    And congrats to both on their ascent on the radio charts!

  7. If Adam and Kris can continue to sell at this rate (and that’s never guaranteed), Adam will be gold in about 3 weeks and Kris will be platinum in about four.

    If they continue on their slow decline, then I’d say 4 weeks for Adam and 5 weeks for Kris. They need to hold very steady if not increase sales slightly to do it in 3 for Adam (Adam definitely need to sell slightly better to be certain) and 4 weeks for Kris.

    Very good in either case. Especially for Kris, he is selling far exceeding my expectation, perhaps he might sell 1.5 million? I wonder if he’ll do as well as Archuleta’s “Crush”, if he can climb further up the airplay chart that is.

  8. Adam should go gold next week with his album, and his single sales are holding steady which is really good.

    Ha. Pants on the Ground is actually selling. Good for the General!!!

  9. Solid sales all around.

    On i-Tunes Carrie’s video for Temporary Home is #1 for all genres plus Play On is the #5 album in all genres thanks to the $7.99 sale.

  10. LLWD is def going platinum and that may take some of the sting away from Kris’ terrible album sales. I think without an amazing follow up song, it will be difficult for the album to even go gold.

    Adam’s album sales look good compared to Kris but aren’t all that either. Pop songs tend to sell the single not the album so it is possible that FYE the album will drop out of the Top 50 in a couple of weeks. After that, I think platinum will be a huge mountain to climb.

    S8 is like the recession season of Idol where all expectations must be tempered. P.S. Who is Katharine McPhee’s manager? Her album which looks to have fallen off the BB 200 has probably sold around 25K total and yet she gets amazing gigs. Her manager deserves some kind of Nobel Prize for agency or something.

  11. Kris’ album is #54 on the iTunes Store and #52 on the RSS iTunes feed I have. That’s a jump from 109 or so yesterday, I believe. FYE is #101 on the iTunes Store and #99 on the same RSS iTunes feed. Keep on keepin’ on guys!

    ETA: Kris Allen has a banner on the iTunes Pop page and you can get his Celebrity Podcast Playlist on that link. He’s also listed in the Valentine’s section.

  12. ETA: Kris Allen has a banner on the iTunes Pop page and you can get his Celebrity Podcast Playlist on that link. He’s also listed in the Valentine’s section.

    Behold the power of the iTunes banner (and the penetration of a hit song to induce people to buy in). Awesome for KATA. I really hope that the next single gets a good reception and pushes more album sales.

    Nice sales all around this week. This January seems a lot less dire, saleswise, than I’d anticipated.

    ETA: I wonder if the podcast was helping too. I’ve seen a fair amount of commentary that people don’t really know who KA is as an artist, and a good playlist that shows his taste and gives the music buyer some touchpoints probably helps with that.

  13. Great sales and nice increase in airplay for Kris!!!!
    yay for the single to go platinium … want that before he shows up in Season 9

    I still have faith in the album to pick up sales at some point..

    Great week for Adam too

  14. ah yes. got to have Kris’ celebrity Podcast. It’s supposed to be very good

  15. 25 Adam Lambert “Whataya Want From Me” 58,433 (-2%; lw 59,421) Total: 323,978 (29)

    How many weeks are we into for WWFM?
    Do we count from 11/24/09 or was there an actual release date?

  16. Nice updates for wwfm; nice to see llwd holding steady. I’m guessing that both will rise on the BBhot 1oo, especially wwfm

  17. WWFM went on sale on 11/20 on iTunes. They make it easy by listing the date on their updates. Jive actually sprung for a banner for Kris. Wow, that’s major for them. (they’re a very frugal label)

  18. I think WWFM went on sale on ao only a few days before the album drop (could u buy just the single or only download if u bought the album – I can’t recall). It was not available on ituned until the album dropped on 11/24

  19. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong re above (and I could very well be)

  20. WWFM Single

    Week 1: 11,197 (11,871 total)
    Week 2: 9,372 (-16%, 21,243 total)
    Week 3: 10,178 (+9%, 31,421 total)
    Week 4: 20,207 (+99%, 51,628 total)
    Week 5: 45,843 (+127%, 94,471 total)
    Week 6: 38,422 (-16%, 135,893 total)
    Week 7: 32,801 (-15%, 168,694 total)
    Week 8: 37,430 (+14%, 206,124 total)
    Week 9: 59,421 (+59%, 265,545 total)
    Week 10: 58,433 ( -2%, 323,978 total)

  21. WWFM went on sale on 11/20. Check the iTunes feed and you’ll find the info.

    So they released it on a Friday like LLWD? Those first half week’s don’t tend to rack up the numbers. Did they report that week or roll the numbers into his second week (which apparently, you can do if you ask nicely and claim people are illegally downloading it which they could do since it was available from the official site as an album preview. Once it’s released in any form, people will start with the illegal downloads).

    ETA: I see by Kanadie’s chart that they reported the sales the first week and it moved 674 units it’s first week (first total reported minus the first sales week reported). That makes this week’s sales report to be Week 11 and this current sales week to be week 12.

  22. The iTunes releases were weird for both LLWD and WWFM. I doubt anyone will care if this is week 10 or week 11. It’s not like that info is going to set any Idol records. Ditto for LLWD. Both songs are actually following a “different” path. Less like Idols and more like regular songs moving up the charts. That’s probably better for them but just another indicator that the show can’t sell music like it used to.

  23. Not that it matters (4 days who cares), but altho itunes says it was “released” on 11/20 wwfm has never been available for download on itunes in single form -only on the album which was not available for download until 11/24. And I have a pretty strong recollection that u could not download wwfm on its own from itunes before the cd dropped on 11/24

  24. ETA: Kris Allen has a banner on the iTunes Pop page and you can get his Celebrity Podcast Playlist on that link. He’s also listed in the Valentine’s section.

    Thanks for mentioning this. Kris Tweeted about this months ago, glad it’s finally available. Now we just need his AOL session.

  25. The iTunes releases were weird for both LLWD and WWFM. I doubt anyone will care if this is week 10 or week 11.

    Probably not. I just didn’t realize that WWFM had had the same quirky release as LLWD. I thought iTunes might have the date wrong, but Kanadie’s sales chart confirms the date (or at least that it was released prior to the album for sale) since the sales totals are not equal to the “first week” sales. Another indication that the story reported by mmb on the airplay thread is correct?

  26. Both songs are actually following a “different” path. Less like Idols and more like regular songs moving up the charts.

    This is all that matters. In the long run it is better for people in the industry to see them as legitimate artists, and not novelty acts who came from a reality TV show.

  27. Both songs are actually following a “different” path. Less like Idols and more like regular songs moving up the charts. That’s probably better for them but just another indicator that the show can’t sell music like it used to.

    As a fan of Adam (who has nothing but affection for Kris), and not of AI as a show- I’m really happy that their sales are like normal new artists (ok- with a much better starting position), and not just selling tons of records upon release only to be forgotten later.

    I believe if it takes you longer, then it’ll also stay for longer (just like a good diet, LOL!).

    So- great slow and steady ascents for the boys! Really great!

  28. Not that it matters (4 days who cares), but altho itunes says it was “released” on 11/20 wwfm has never been available for download on itunes in single form -only on the album which was not available for download until 11/24. And I have a pretty strong recollection that u could not download wwfm on its own from itunes before the cd dropped on 11/24

    The album went on sale on Monday, the 23rd, but WWFM was available before then on other sites besides itunes. Itunes had a delay in making the song available, but people could buy it from Amazon and other online retailers. Considering that the sales during the initial period were to hardcore fans, I don’t think the itunes delay caused that big of a problem, since the hardcore fans are the only ones who would really be aware of the song during the first few days that it was available.

  29. If Adam and Kris can continue to sell at this rate (and that’s never guaranteed), Adam will be gold in about 3 weeks and Kris will be platinum in about four.

    Well given that Kris’s single have really steady, I think he has a good chance to get that platinum in 3 weeks, Grammy’s bump pushing his single sales down might make it 4, but I still think he can do it in 3. Adam’s sales have gone down more from his post Oprah bump, so I would put his getting gold in 5 weeks…maybe even 6.

    As for album sales? eh. I do see a downward slide continuing for both, unless something happens. Hopefully their respective singles will (eventually) help sales in the long run. Kris has the lower sales right now, but with a first hit single, he might actually be in a better position if a second single comes out and does well, to get more people finally ready to buy the album, and not just the second single.

    Wow, that sounds kind of downer for what was a good week for both Kris and Adam, I am glad for them both, and hope they have success going forward *fingers crossed* with both of their singles right now, future ones and hopefully, ideally, their album sales.

  30. Now we just need his AOL session.

    Hahaha.

    Oh were you serious.

    Yeah, I hope we get them, and Allison and Adam’s as well, but as I like breathing, I’m not holding my breath for them to get released.

  31. Babybelle32 that sounds right. Wwfm was definitely available from ao and other sources pre 11/23 cd drop, just not on itunes

  32. Actually, I apologize, it looks like this is the report from week 12 or more (and the current week is 13). Sorry for not confirming that before posting my previous post.

    I just went back and checked the archives and here is the first sales report we received for WWFM:

    138 Adam Lambert “Whatya Want From Me” 11,197 (3,303%; lw 329) Total: 11,871
    [Percentage would have officially been reported as 999 since there are only three significant digits in that field]

    So, for those who like the complete chart, the sales chart is like this (if we assume that the 345 unaccounted for singles were all sold the first week):
    Week 1: 345 (345 total)
    Week 2: 329 (-5%, 674 total)
    Week 3: 11,197 (3,303%, 11,871 total)
    Week 4: 9,372 (-16%, 21,243 total)
    Week 5: 10,178 (+9%, 31,421 total)
    Week 6: 20,207 (+99%, 51,628 total)
    Week 7: 45,843 (+127%, 94,471 total)
    Week 8: 38,422 (-16%, 135,893 total)
    Week 9: 32,801 (-15%, 168,694 total)
    Week 10: 37,430 (+14%, 206,124 total)
    Week 11: 59,421 (+59%, 265,545 total)
    Week 12: 58,433 ( -2%, 323,978 total)

    Who was selling it before iTunes?

  33. The album went on sale on Monday, the 23rd, but WWFM was available before then on other sites besides itunes. Itunes had a delay in making the song available, but people could buy it from Amazon and other online retailers.

    Ehh, is this really right? I thought the only place to buy WWFM was AO? I don’t think it was ever on sale anywhere else before the album dropped.

  34. This is all that matters. In the long run it is better for people in the industry to see them as legitimate artists, and not novelty acts who came from a reality TV show.

    Yep. That’s what the industry will look at. In fact, it probably gives them some cred that they started out slowly and built to these numbers rather then started big and then trickled out. Shows that they can reach outside of the TV (even though Kris doesn’t seem to have held much of his TV audience).

  35. Speaking of tv, do either of these guys have any major tv appearances coming up in the next month to help keep sales steady or provide a bump? They may just have to slug it out the old fashioned way via radio airplay…

  36. Both songs are actually following a “different” path. Less like Idols and more like regular songs moving up the charts. That’s probably better for them but just another indicator that the show can’t sell music like it used to.

    Honestly, I have doubts that this is actually a better thing. ….

    We still don’t know whether it’s more that the *show* that can’t sell music like it used to or whether it’s more that Adam and Kris can’t sell music like some previous Idols have done.

    We may find that out when we get the Season 9 winner and runner-up and get a gander at their first sales. Maybe they’ll track Kris’s and Adam’s — but maybe they’ll track the Davids’, instead. Right now, all we know is that up through Season 7 there were very big initial weeks for Idol winners and (usually) runners up, and this year — no such thing. I’m not convinced that this tells us a lot about the show or a lot about U.S. music lovers’ response to Kris and Adam. Maybe both, or maybe one or the other. But where’s the real evidence that it reveals more about the show than it does about the two of them as sellers of music?

    I have a hard time seeing how it’s good news that neither Kris nor Adam thrilled the Idol audience enough to have them rush out and buy albums according to their usual pattern.

    I know that the Idol audience is older than the targeted music-buying public. But what do we actually know to make us believe that the AI audience is so much different from the rest of the public that what AI viewers have been very “meh” about the public as a whole will eventually fervently embrace?

    I’m not saying either guy is doomed as a music seller, at all. They both have a chance to build careers now, and we know they’re both very talented, capable guys whom at least a small subset of Idol viewers love to bits.

    But I still think we’re very much in a “wait and see” situation. So far all we know for certain is that, for some reason, neither impressed a large proportion of the only audience that’s seen a lot of them enough to encourage that audience to pry open their (admittedly recession-haunted) wallets to buy their stuff. (and there *was* recession in 2008, as well.)

  37. Well given that Kris’s single have really steady, I think he has a good chance to get that platinum in 3 weeks,

    Impossible.

  38. I have a hard time seeing how it’s good news that neither Kris nor Adam thrilled the Idol audience enough to have them rush out and buy albums according to their usual pattern.

    Ok – I really think that much of what is making Adam and Kris not pick up as much of the original AI audience IS the fact that their albums skew younger than the typical AI demographic.

    I know that AI skewing older is no new thing, but I think that this year we have any even greater disparity between:

    * Older skewing audience COMBINED with much younger skewing singers.

    Last year, I think the Davids (particularly Cook) were releasing music that was far more appealing to the audience that loved them on AI – Cook had a lot of older fans (Archie too) – and their music (for the most part) appealed to that core audience more so.

    Adam, otoh, turns out a pop-electro-dance album – how many 40 + year olds who loved him on the show are really that into that kind of music? Many older fans from the show wanted him to go either classic rock or ballady – not gonna happen. Hence the disconnect.

    Kris, similarly, is turning out music that’s more geared toward the college/20-something crowd. His music, imo, could have possibly appealed to more of the “David Cook-type” older fanbase too – but in his case I think there just wasn’t enough of a strong AI fanbase to keep up the interest in his music post-AI (as in, you had other factors determining his win, like the Danny vote/Anti-Adam vote, etc.)

    JMO.

  39. “As for album sales? eh. I do see a downward slide continuing for both, unless something happens. Hopefully their respective singles will (eventually) help sales in the long run. Kris has the lower sales right now, but with a first hit single, he might actually be in a better position if a second single comes out and does well, to get more people finally ready to buy the album, and not just the second single. ” — Truthiness

    This has always been my contention. Pink, Lady Gaga, Owl City have all taken this course. Initial CD sales low to average, growing as their singles blew up on the charts. From the world’s perspective — hit singles = success. The more radio play the better. I’ve joked in the past that Kris will sell his CD one single at a time. Lyndsey Parker even saw the single potential on Kris’ CD. She hasn’t minced words about Kris in the past, so I took it as a sincere opinion, matching my own.

    Slow out the box, but in it for the long term.

  40. Well given that Kris’s single have really steady, I think he has a good chance to get that platinum in 3 weeks,

    Impossible

    Well I agree, I meant to say I agree with Kirsten, Kris could possibly go platinum with his single, in 4 weeks (mis-typed, it happens)…if he continues to sell as well as he has been, and he seems to be having steady sales. But I agree that it’s also better to give it a bit more time, especially with the Grammy and Haiti singles on the iTunes charts.

  41. Speaking of tv, do either of these guys have any major tv appearances coming up in the next month to help keep sales steady or provide a bump? They may just have to slug it out the old fashioned way via radio airplay…

    TV appearances only give short term bumps. I’m more impressed that Kris’ single has kept up this sales pace based largely on radio play. I have a feeling that this is also something that radio program directors notice, too.

    I have a hard time seeing how it’s good news that neither Kris nor Adam thrilled the Idol audience enough to have them rush out and buy albums according to their usual pattern.

    It’s good news because the AI honeymoon period wears off fast, and when it’s over, these guys have to prove that they can attract an audience based on their music, and not because the cult of personality that AI relies on. Program Directors aren’t going to play their music if they don’t feel that these people aren’t legitimate pop artists.

  42. Kworb updated the sales numbers for LLWD, from Pulse:

    Week 1: 15,755 (three days of sales)
    Week 2: 23,552 (+49%, 39,307 total)
    Week 3: 13,476 (-43%, 52,783 total)
    Week 4: 9,980 (-23%, 62,763 total)
    Week 5: 10,190 (+2%, 72,953 total)
    Week 6: 10,444 (+3%, 83,397 total)
    Week 7: 14,754 (+41%, 98,151 total)
    Week 8: 21,402 (+45%, 119,553 total)
    Week 9: 35,787 (+67%, 155,340 total)
    Week 10: 31,327 (-12%, 186,667 total)
    Week 11: 27,641 (-12%, 214,308 total)
    Week 12: 35,553 (+29%, 249,861 total)
    Week 13: 40,355 (+14%, 290,216 total)
    Week 14: 109,200 (+171%, 399,416 total)
    Week 15: 86,824 (-20%, 486,240 total)
    Week 16: 64,667 (-26%, 550,907 total)
    Week 17: 69,155 (+7%, 620,062 total)
    Week 18: 65,325 (-6%, 685,387 total)
    Week 19: 63,329 (-3%, 748,716 total)

    LLWD needs another 250k for Platinum, so five weeks looks like a fairly safe bet – so sales through the first week of March should do it. Maybe sooner if Idol plays the Kris/LLWD promo commercial? I wonder when they’re going to start airing that commercial..

  43. have a hard time seeing how it’s good news that neither Kris nor Adam thrilled the Idol audience enough to have them rush out and buy albums according to their usual pattern.

    Ok – I really think that much of what is making Adam and Kris not pick up as much of the original AI audience IS the fact that their albums skew younger than the typical AI demographic.

    I’m hoping this is true!

  44. “Adam, otoh, turns out a pop-electro-dance album – how many 40 + year olds who loved him on the show are really that into that kind of music?” — Mary 102

    From what I’ve seen in the cyberworld, apparently A LOT. Or is it just into Adam Lambert? ::grin::

  45. Wow – it sounds as though I’m alone in being happy about sales of FYE the album. I’m not sure how FYE & the KA album can be put in the same bucket when sales of FYE this week are 3X the sales of KA. That’s a pretty big difference imo.

  46. Really nice sales for Kris and Adam’s singles again this week. But I think 4 weeks is too soon for Kris to go platinum. He needs slightly more than 250K to reach that — which would be 60+K in each of the next 4 weeks. Not likely to happen. I definitely see it going platinum before the end of March, though.

    Adam needs 175+K for WWFM to go gold? That’s probably 4 weeks away, maybe 5 weeks.

    Meanwhile, Kris said in his press conference that he was surprised to hear Before We Come Undone on the car radio in the Philippines. Evidently, they have started playing that song a fair amount over there. He claims they still don’t know what the 2nd single will be, but if BWCU gets a strong response from places like the Philippines, Singapore, Malaysia, I’d think that could influence the decision.

  47. I’m not sure how FYE & the KA album can be put in the same bucket when sales of FYE this week are 3X the sales of KA. That’s a pretty big difference imo.

    It’s not a big difference when the raw numbers are small to begin with.

  48. Wow – it sounds as though I’m alone in being happy about sales of FYE the album. I’m not sure how FYE & the KA album can be put in the same bucket when sales of FYE this week are 3X the sales of KA. That’s a pretty big difference imo.

    I’m pretty sure that nobody was comparing the sales of the two albums. Most people aren’t going to judge Adam or Kris’ success just based on how they compare to one another, since that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Given that the show is over, their sales are going to be judged based on how they are performing in the marketplace as a whole.

    Given previous AI album sales as well as the amount of publicity that he has received, Adam’s numbers are lower than people would expect them to be. They are also lower in comparison to others who have released albums over the past few months. But, when we consider that he is a new artist, the failure of his first single, as well as the exposure of WWFM, the numbers are good.

    Either way, even if he was putting up similar numbers to David Cook, he would still need to rely on having good singles in order to continue selling cds.

    It’s not important how well Adam does in comparison to Kris, it’s how well Adam does overall, and the same is true for Kris. Would Kris’ numbers be good if Adam only sold a total of 20,000 copies of his album?

  49. I truly believe one of the main reasons for the lack in sales was the lack of time to really get to know the contestants. Before the top 36 we had all those weeks to really get to “know” the contestants and their life and backgrounds. I just don’t think there was enough time for people to really “know” their Idol.

  50. Wow – it sounds as though I’m alone in being happy about sales of FYE the album.

    Not at all alone- when week 10 shows (15,000, -22 percent, 492,000) we are all doing the happy dance!

    The whole picture-
    Week 1 11/30/09: #3 198,000 units, total 199,000 units
    Week 2 12/06/09: #22 51,000 units, total 250,000 units
    Week 3 12/13/09: #30 46,000 units, total 296,000 units
    Week 4 12/20/09: #29 59,000 units, total 355,000 units
    Week 5 12/27/09: #29 62,000 units, total 417,000 units
    Week 6 1/03/10: #36 17,000 units, total 434,000 units
    Week 7 1/10/10: #40 11,000 units, total 445,000 units
    Week 8 1/17/10: #35 12,000 units, total 457,000 units
    Week 9 1/24/10: #21 20,000 units, total 477,000 units
    Week 10 1/31/10 15,000, -22 percent, 492,000

  51. I could be completely off on this, but isn’t Adam as the runner up, tracking basically as David Archuleta’s did? I think it is pretty close to the same…

    The one major let down in sales for S8 to me is Kris album, kind of tanking at 250K compared to David Cook’s, and the lowest selling winner album of any idol ever.

  52. Billboard top 200- all genres included-has Adam’s is in the # 21 spot.

  53. Any Canadian or other International numbers? I’m wondering if all that Canadian promo gave FYE a big bump. They did the best interviews!

    mj, can I come out of moderation? I’ll be good and won’t get defensive. I only have to be smacked once to learn my lesson.

  54. Martha- that is last week (from sales the prior week -oprah week). Bb200 for this week hasn’t been posted yet. Adam will be around 15K in the high 30s rank when it comes out

  55. I have a hard time seeing how it’s good news that neither Kris nor Adam thrilled the Idol audience enough to have them rush out and buy albums according to their usual pattern.

    It’s good news because the AI honeymoon period wears off fast, and when it’s over, these guys have to prove that they can attract an audience based on their music, and not because the cult of personality that AI relies on.

    I completely agree that every Idol has to do that, whether or not they got the Idol bump …

    But my question is — If you already have demonstrated that you have less ability than previous idols to impress the Idol audience, what possible evidence is there that you would then actually have *more* of a chance to win over the public at large (which is what you’d need in order to make this “good” rather than “neutral at best” news)? ….

    I completely agree that they honeymoon wears off fast. What I don’t see is how the *lack* of a honeymoon shows that you are better positioned to attract a wide audience than people who actually got a honeymoon!

    Now, if it’s indeed true that the reason AI watchers didn’t buy Adam’s and Kris’s stuff as much as they’ve bought previous Idols is that, unlike all the previous Idols, Adam and Kris don’t make music that appeals to older people but, instead, make music that greatly appeals to younger people, then I can see it. If that’s true, then they are better positioned to make a mark in the industry at large, since I gather that music sales overall kind of skew young.

    I think that’s yet to be seen, though. For one thing, I have a hard time seeing why LLWD or WWFM appeal to a younger audience more than, say, Crush.

    So I’ll give you — The lack of an Idol bump is a neutral factor. Doesn’t mean that Adam and Kris will sell less to the general public. … I can’t go farther than that to calling it “good” news, though. Don’t see any line of reasoning that leads to that conclusion.

  56. I could be completely off on this, but isn’t Adam as the runner up, tracking basically as David Archuleta’s did? I think it is pretty close to the same…

    We can’t compare Adam’s promotion to David’s, that’s a huge difference.
    Adam isn’t even pulling in Justin Bieber like numbers, even though he’s gotten more pub than that kid.

  57. instead. Right now, all we know is that up through Season 7 there were very big initial weeks for Idol winners and (usually) runners up, and this year — no such thing.

    Is this an accurate statement? I’ve not had much interest in keeping track of idol sales, so I am really clueless on this front. I wouldn’t think that Jordin, Taylor, Ruben, Diana De?, Fantasia (how did she do?), Bo Bice, Kat, & Blake Lewis. Maybe these folks did well those first few weeks… IDK.

  58. I could be completely off on this, but isn’t Adam as the runner up, tracking basically as David Archuleta’s did? I think it is pretty close to the same…

    Nope. Archuleta had a massive single to start things off with and has still sold a lot more albums. I guess they are slightly comprable but unlike Adam, David had radio success right off thr bat.

  59. Adam isn’t even pulling in Justin Bieber like numbers, even though he’s gotten more pub than that kid.

    I beg to differ on the point that Beiber isn’t getting any promotion – that kid is everywhere – certainly as much as Adam, imo. Sure he’s not doing Oprah, but other than that, the kid is heavily featured on MTV, and other promo spots. Anyone over the age of 20 may not see too much of him – but I think he’s getting a lot of promo.

  60. We can’t compare Adam’s promotion to David’s, that’s a huge difference

    I wasn’t comparing promotion..never mentioned it in my statement..I was comparing album sales…and only compared them because someone else mentioned about how S8 wasn’t selling as well as S7. :)

  61. “I could be completely off on this, but isn’t Adam as the runner up, tracking basically as David Archuleta’s did? I think it is pretty close to the same…”

    I don’t think it’s fair to DA to say that Adam’s album is selling the same amount. Did DA have the pimp spot at the AMA’s too? Adam has had a lot more publicity than DA ever did, and he had 3 songs released from his album so that should contribute to higher album sales for Adam I would think…

  62. If that’s true, then they are better positioned to make a mark in the industry at large, since I gather that music sales overall kind of skew young.

    I think that’s yet to be seen, though. For one thing, I have a hard time seeing why LLWD or WWFM appeal to a younger audience more than, say, Crush.

    I personally think the stuff on Adam and Kris’s album does have a higher potential than other previous AI albums (with a few exceptions, mainly of the Carrie/Kelly/Daughtry variety) to reach further out into mainstream radio – they both have some very good, catchy, current songs on those albums.

    Crush was big, but, that notwithstanding, I don’t recall any future single taking off for Archie. I don’t know his album well enough to say whether the songs were really great and catchy. I know it’s common for AI alums to have pretty weak first albums (considering the rush to get it out, etc.) But I personally think this year had some of the strongest, and least “AI alum-y” albums in awhile. So, again, I see a great chance for success outside of AI. It just takes some time.

  63. Eileen99
    02/03/2010 at 11:49 am
    Kworb updated the sales numbers for LLWD, from Pulse:

    Week 1: 15,755 (three days of sales)
    Week 2: 23,552 (+49%, 39,307 total)
    Week 3: 13,476 (-43%, 52,783 total)
    Week 4: 9,980 (-23%, 62,763 total)
    Week 5: 10,190 (+2%, 72,953 total)
    Week 6: 10,444 (+3%, 83,397 total)
    Week 7: 14,754 (+41%, 98,151 total)
    Week 8: 21,402 (+45%, 119,553 total)
    Week 9: 35,787 (+67%, 155,340 total)
    Week 10: 31,327 (-12%, 186,667 total)
    Week 11: 27,641 (-12%, 214,308 total)
    Week 12: 35,553 (+29%, 249,861 total)
    Week 13: 40,355 (+14%, 290,216 total)
    Week 14: 109,200 (+171%, 399,416 total)
    Week 15: 86,824 (-20%, 486,240 total)
    Week 16: 64,667 (-26%, 550,907 total)
    Week 17: 69,155 (+7%, 620,062 total)
    Week 18: 65,325 (-6%, 685,387 total)
    Week 19: 63,329 (-3%, 748,716 total)

    LLWD needs another 250k for Platinum, so five weeks looks like a fairly safe bet – so sales through the first week of March should do it. Maybe sooner if Idol plays the Kris/LLWD promo commercial? I wonder when they’re going to start airing that commercial..

    Fascinating… what happened between weeks 13 & 14? Tv appearance or big chart move?

  64. But my question is — If you already have demonstrated that you have less ability than previous idols to impress the Idol audience, what possible evidence is there that you would then actually have *more* of a chance to win over the public at large (which is what you’d need in order to make this “good” rather than “neutral at best” news)? ….

    Taylor Hicks was one of the most popular AI contestants ever, yet that didn’t translate into his music connecting with a large audience. The truth is that while the music may seem like a central part of American Idol, it’s actually not, the personalities are much more important. But, for the most part, this doesn’t work very well in terms of having long term success in this industry.

    I completely agree that they honeymoon wears off fast. What I don’t see is how the *lack* of a honeymoon shows that you are better positioned to attract a wide audience than people who actually got a honeymoon!

    Program Directors can look at Kris’ numbers for LLWD and tell that the sales are a result of people actually liking the song. PDs haven’t always taken former AI contestants seriously, and in a lot of cases haven’t treated their songs in the same way they would songs from any other artist. So, if Kris and Adam prove that their success/numbers are actually about the music, then they stand a better chance of being taken seriously, and getting their music played.

  65. Fascinating… what happened between weeks 13 & 14? Tv appearance or big chart move?

    Gift cards. That was the week after Christmas.

  66. Is this an accurate statement? I’ve not had much interest in keeping track of idol sales, so I am really clueless on this front. I wouldn’t think that Jordin, Taylor, Ruben, Diana De?, Fantasia (how did she do?), Bo Bice, Kat, & Blake Lewis. Maybe these folks did well those first few weeks… IDK.

    Yeah, you’re right about the runners up. Blake, Diana, and Justin G didn’t get big early sales (Justin didn’t even put out an album, I don’t think). As I recall, though, Kat did get pretty big early sales but then stopped dead. … The winners all did quite well in the early going, though, as did Bo, Clay and David A. So the biggest difference for Season 8 is in the lack of an Idol bump for the winner. Nevertheless, as I recall all of the highly hyped runners up — David, Clay, and Bo — got quite major early Idol bumps as well, and I’d include Adam among the highly hyped runners up group

  67. But my question is — If you already have demonstrated that you have less ability than previous idols to impress the Idol audience, what possible evidence is there that you would then actually have *more* of a chance to win over the public at large (which is what you’d need in order to make this “good” rather than “neutral at best” news)? ….

    Taylor Hicks was one of the most popular AI contestants ever, yet that didn’t translate into his music connecting with a large audience.

    Yeah, but you’re arguing against the *reverse* of my point!

    I know that a honeymoon doesn’t translate into future sales! …. All I’m saying is that that fact certainly does *not* prove that the lack of a honeymoon is therefore *good* news for future sales! Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. We’ve so far seen no evidence from Idol that tells us either way.

    What program directors have always known about Idols is that you couldn’t take the first two to four weeks’ sales as meaning much. However, once that Idol bump was over, then I think everybody has always figured that sales are extending beyond the Idol hardcore faithful, and those later sales could provide just as much evidence as Kris’s and Adam’s of whether the person had staying power.

    Why would Kris’s and Adam’s week five sales, for example, be assumed to come entirely outside the Idol bubble but Taylor’s or Cook’s week five sales be regarded more skeptically as coming from *within* the idol bubble? I see no reason anyone would conclude that at all! It’s only the very early sales that ever were attributed to the Idol audience. … Later ones have always illustrated what happened after the show — with David C selling well as time went on and Taylor’s sales dropping like a rock, for example. … Kris and Adam aren’t unique in having sales that illustrate the post-AI response to them, in my opinion.

  68. So I’ll give you — The lack of an Idol bump is a neutral factor. Doesn’t mean that Adam and Kris will sell less to the general public. … I can’t go farther than that to calling it “good” news, though. Don’t see any line of reasoning that leads to that conclusion.

    Lucy-
    I think what most of us were reffering to as good news is the fact that both these singles are doing really good, and still getting better, despite having a not-so-great start.

    That means their success is due to a really wide range of constantly new people who hear them for the first time and decide to download.

    And so, it’s much more legit, and will probably bode well for more singles to come.

    No one was saying that the mere fact that the initial sales weren’t good was a good thing. But the fact that both singles shook off the struggling beginning and took off successfully from there means a lot, I think…

  69. I don’t think it’s fair to DA to say that Adam’s album is selling the same amount. Did DA have the pimp spot at the AMA’s too? Adam has had a lot more publicity than DA ever did, and he had 3 songs released from his album so that should contribute to higher album sales for Adam I would think…

    Adam had hardly any airlplay by the times the albums dropped. DC, DA, KA and Jordin all had weeks of radio presence pre Chrismas period.

    Some idol sales charts:

    Album sales

    Single sales

  70. Many comparisons are made b/t Kris and Jordin saying they both are single sellers. Didn’t Jordin do better than 250,000 after 3months? No matter how much peeps want to say Adam has not met expectations for the hype, I can’t even begin to imagine what can be said about Kris’s anemic album sales. They kinda compare with the flopping single FYE that has sold over 200,000 IMO. But, with it being Kris, expectations were so low that I guess it is considered ok.

  71. Adam had hardly any airlplay by the times the albums dropped. DC, DA, KA and Jordin all had weeks of radio presence pre Chrismas period.

    For the first few years of the show only the coronation songs were released before the album came out, no singles were released until after the albums were released. Taylor’s first single didn’t come out until weeks after the album did, yet he sold more than double what Adam did during his debut week.

    The first month of AI album sales have very little to do with airplay, and more to do with the show, and as Clive Davis said, people wanting a souvenir.

  72. Say- has Lil Wayne just released an album or something??? What’s with all these singles of his going up the itunes chart and pushing down our boys???

    Aren’t the grammys and all the charity singles enough??? Ok- sorry about the charity singles- they can stay high- they’re for a good cause- but everything else? Out of our boys’ ways!!!!!!

    :-)

  73. Maybe I’m missing something here, but I’ve never understood all the extreme interest in iTunes singles sales numbers. It just doesn’t seem to be justified. Singles are such small potatoes in the overall picture. On average, it takes about 10 of them monetarily to equal one album. So even if a single goes platinum, that’s only the equivalent of about 100k albums. And any album that has been out as long as Kris’s and Adam’s have been would be considered a flop with only 100k sold.

  74. and I’d include Adam among the highly hyped runners up group

    You would? Really? I hadn’t noticed (j/k of course ;-) )

    I still think part of the deal with Adam is that, despite all of the media attention, he really is (and has been) positioned as being about much more than just the music since leaving AI. His PR team seems to be focusing a lot on a lot of different media appearances, all high impact, tying in to online stuff, magazines, tv, even movies (with the award shows), fashion, etc.

    I can see WHY they want to take that approach, because he does have that immediate potential, straight off of AI, to really capitalize on the new fame and do well in a bunch of different areas. The press and media love him, he loves them back, etc.

    But, otoh, it means that the music has kind of tended to get lost in the shuffle. WWFM doing well is great. FYE being so controversial I also think was kind of more to his benefit than not. But, nevertheless, it means that many many more people now know Adam the person, rather than necessarily the music.

    I think with time, and with WWFM doing well and continuing to move up the charts and sell well, that more people WILL start to know him for the music too.

    But, right now, despite all the media attention on him, I seriously don’t think it necessarily equates with people being aware of his music. And I think that was a conscious decision on his part to be about more than just the music.

    We can debate whether that was really the smartest idea or not. I personally think it was the best choice for HIM personally, but it’s definitely not, say, the route every new artist will and should take.

  75. Lucy-
    I think what most of us were reffering to as good news is the fact that both these singles are doing really good, and still getting better, despite having a not-so-great start.

    You may be right. That’s not what people have actually been saying, however!

    People have been stating flat out that the *lack* of early sales attributable to the Idol audience is good news because it makes Kris and Adam more like regular artists with industry credibility than like some sort of tv-produced freaks that everyone will ever thereafter be skeptical of!

    That’s the point I dispute.

    I completely agree that growing sales and play of LLWD is good news and that Adam’s gradually stabilizing sales of the album and the radio play WWFM is getting are both good news! I’ve said that all along! Of course that’s good news!

  76. But, with it being Kris, expectations were so low that I guess it is considered ok.

    I’m pretty sure that the overall theme for weeks has been that neither Kris or Adam is selling well, and that both are below what is expected from those who compete on the show.

    I don’t have a huge problem with the numbers for either Kris or Adam. I actually hope this will lead 19 and the Sony labels to look for ways to develop everyone who comes off the show as artists, and not just try to earn a quick buck off of their AI popularity. There is a lot more money to be had in developing them as legitimate artists and marketing them to a mass audience, than just relying on the same group of hardcore AI fans.

  77. Maybe I’m missing something here, but I’ve never understood all the extreme interest in iTunes singles sales numbers. It just doesn’t seem to be justified. Singles are such small potatoes in the overall picture. On average, it takes about 10 of them monetarily to equal one album. So even if a single goes platinum, that’s only the equivalent of about 100k albums. And any album that has been out as long as Kris’s and Adam’s have been would be considered a flop with only 100k sold.

    Very true. But otoh, both singles and albums are sources of revenue for the label, and some artists (particularly in pop) really do much much better with singles than they ever do with albums.

    Jordin is a good example. Her 2nd album has hardly sold anything, but I think she had at least 1 platinum single from it – that’s not as good as a platinum, or even gold, album, but it still counts toward revenue. And all the company cares about is the bottom line (whatever that is for each artist).

    Kesha’s another good example – her album has sold ok (but it’s also offered at a steep discount), but her singles blow up on itunes, which makes the label very happy.

    Then you have someone like Gaga – who has many platinum singles, PLUS continued strong albums sales (buoyed largely by the success of the singles). Her label is very very happy about that :-)

  78. On average, it takes about 10 of them monetarily to equal one album. So even if a single goes platinum, that’s only the equivalent of about 100k albums. And any album that has been out as long as Kris’s and Adam’s have been would be considered a flop with only 100k sold.

    I don’t agree with you in the sense that selling platinium means you have reached 1 million people as opposed to 100,000 with 100,000 album sold. I think it’s a big difference because your market is much bigger and you have a potential of 1 million people that could buy your album in the future which can happen or not (maybe not with this album but a future one)
    ..also it shows more promise for attendance in a tour

  79. Since someone was asking how David A’s album #s were, I checked over at idolforums and on page 352 of the david archuleta album, singles and airplay thread the current sales number for him for as of February 10, 2009 (ie: around the same time last year for him as now for the A8 group) his album had sold approx. 619,000 in album sales. At that time, Crush had just hit 1.5 million in sales (1.5 platinum).

  80. People have been stating flat out that the *lack* of early sales attributable to the Idol audience is good news because it makes Kris and Adam more like regular artists with industry credibility than like some sort of tv-produced freaks that everyone will ever thereafter be skeptical of!

    Why do you dispute this point? I think we have seen how those from AI have to work extra hard to overcome the stigma that they are in this position because of their personalities and not their talent. We’ve also seen that aside from the first singles, which some PDs have treated like they are novelty songs, it’s been hard for AI alums to get airplay for their second singles. If PDs believe that the success of the first singles was due to people actually liking the songs, and not just liking the artists, I think that will help them get airplay for the other singles that they release.

  81. Say- has Lil Wayne just released an album or something??? What’s with all these singles of his going up the itunes chart and pushing down our boys???

    He is releasing a new album – his “rock” album – and it is supposed to be TERRIBLE! Washington Post completely skewered it yesterday, and it has had a lot of bad hype for months now (plus it was delayed). Hopefully the effect is very temporary, because the music is supposed to really suck.

  82. I love graphs. They really paint a picture don’t they-well except the single chart that is full of stuff-hard to extrapolate the data. The album/CD chart is good though. Pictures don’t lie. Kris’s cd sales on the graph look like a fish floundering. AFter 16 weeks of the single sales, one would think they CD sales would have been impacted by now, if not from the AI audience, then from the single sales. But, they are not. People are still not buying Kris the artist. Kids are buying LLWD cause its catchy and fun. I haven’t heard another single that will “catch’ the young crowd the same as LLWD to push CD sales. At this rate, he won’t reach gold for —-ever.

  83. I could be completely off on this, but isn’t Adam as the runner up, tracking basically as David Archuleta’s did? I think it is pretty close to the same…

    Yes, Adam’s album sales are comparable to Archies. Archie did have two more weeks of sales before Christmas and that always helps. Also, you have to consider that album sales as a whole are down 13%.
    Archie had a hit single out before his album sold so that helped him on the front end. Adam has a single that is climbing at this time, so he is selling more now.
    Adam has had better chart positions in January.

    We can’t compare Adam’s promotion to David’s, that’s a huge difference.

    They are both runners-up. People are going to compare them and their numbers are comparable. They both received the same idol type promotion that all runners-up get.

    Adam isn’t even pulling in Justin Bieber like numbers, even though he’s gotten more pub than that kid.

    No, Adam cannot match the tweenie hysteria that is surrounding Bieber. Few people can. And that kid is everywhere. He headlined all those Jingle Bell Balls. In fact, the tweenies weren’t even interested in John Mayer. They were there to see Justin! He was also the main attraction for Dick Clark’s NYE show.
    FYE has consistently stayed in the top 40. When you look at chart position and how his sales (both singles AND albums) in BOTH the US and internationally, I would think that RCA is very happy with him.

  84. I have to agree with Lucy on this one. There are a lot of assumptions behind seeing the AI8’ers as more legitimate and having a better future than all prior seasons, based on their sales rising now rather than exploding out of the gate. Are either of them selling more albums now than other Idols at this point in their sales cycle? Let’s see some numbers on that. You can’t just isolate singles sales and draw conclusions that somehow they are better than everyone in the past, with a ‘better’ fan base.

    I will look for an example to the Idol I know most about. If you look at radio play, LO did so well in slowly rising that DC effectively couldn’t put out single #2 until April because he would have cannibalized sales and radio play of a single that hadn’t yet peaked on radio. That’s not quickie, explosive, AI-only sales. Two of his singles are still charting high on radio in recurrency; one 1-1/2 years old and the other 9 months old. Over 500,000 of his 1.3 million album sales were in 2009, after most Idol buyers were done. Yes, I know he got some bumps from Idol appearances and his Idol ad, but they were not that much compared to steady sales since. LO was a slow burn on sales, hitting platinum after about 10 months, I think. Those were not all Idol buyers after the first few months.

    Granted, there are plenty of Idols with a history of big initial sales (Taylor Hicks) followed by nothing, but not all followed that pattern. Carrie is still selling and selling and selling months after Play On debuted. She did not follow the huge sales followed by tanking pattern that I am reading y’all think is true of all Idols prior to season 8. I suspect there are a number of other examples. Daughtry also comes to mind.

    I am glad the AI8 guys are selling better than they were, but that does not prove who is buying. They are getting bumps from the start of Idol, which means Idol watchers are not done with them, either. We don’t know the demographic makeup of their buyers. A lot of assumptions are being made about this to come to the conclusion that they are somehow more organic or legitimate. Not to mention that AL is probably the most promoted Idol ever, which has more than a little to do with his rising sales. Kris is getting comparable promo to Idol winners of the past.

  85. I don’t agree with you in the sense that selling platinium means you have reached 1 million people as opposed to 100,000 with 100,000 album sold. I think it’s a big difference because your market is much bigger and you have a potential of 1 million people that could buy your album in the future which can happen or not (maybe not with this album but a future one)
    ..also it shows more promise for attendance in a tour

    If the singles do well enough, then I can see this having an impact, but I think there are kind of too many “what ifs” here. Sure, more people know your single, but if that still isn’t translating to album sales (and typically, it won’t really until even more people hear it, and hear more than 1 single at that) it’s kind of a moot point. How many of Jordin’s millions of singles purchasers decided to buy the album, for instance?

    And with the tour – again, unless you have a really really big single, or several, how many people are really going to fork over $50 + to see you on tour? It’s a lot less of a commitment to buy a $1.29 single on itunes. JMO.

  86. Maybe I’m missing something here, but I’ve never understood all the extreme interest in iTunes singles sales numbers. It just doesn’t seem to be justified. Singles are such small potatoes in the overall picture. On average, it takes about 10 of them monetarily to equal one album. So even if a single goes platinum, that’s only the equivalent of about 100k albums. And any album that has been out as long as Kris’s and Adam’s have been would be considered a flop with only 100k sold.

    Radio station PDs pay a lot of attention to those numbers, and it’s a determining factor for some of them in whether or not they will play a song, and how often they will play it. And the truth is that without hit singles, album sales will suffer. A lot of Adam’s fans seem to hold Gaga in high regard, take a look at her debut album sales, and then track the growth as she released one hit single after another.

    People in the industry probably don’t care about how many albums someone has sold, but they know whether or not someone has a hit single. Those who do will be offered more opportunities than those who don’t. Just look at some older artists who aren’t getting airplay, but who have a solid base who will buy anything that they release, and then compare that to younger artists who release one hit song after another, but who may not initially sale a lot of albums. The younger artist is the one who we always see at every televised event, and who is offered a lot of avenues to make money to offset lower album sales.

  87. Woohoooo Adam is closer to gold!! Yeahhhhhhhh!!!!
    His single seems to be doing very well also.

    I do think it’s obvious that more hit singles produce more album sales.

    I’m tired of the …well this Idol sold this, and that Idol sold that….blah blah blah

    I’m just happy Adam is on the radio on the time here. I just want him to be successful enough to keep making albums.

  88. I don’t agree with you in the sense that selling platinium means you have reached 1 million people as opposed to 100,000 with 100,000 album sold. I think it’s a big difference because your market is much bigger and you have a potential of 1 million people that could buy your album in the future which can happen or not (maybe not with this album but a future one)
    ..also it shows more promise for attendance in a tour

    The potential is there.. but ask Jordin how her platinum single sales have translated into big $$. And if someone isn’t going to invest $10 for an album, I don’t see them rushing to spend $40-$80 for concert tickets.

    I think it is a crapshoot. You hope that those single sales translate to something bigger – it can and does happen, though not for every artist.

    ETA:
    “I haven’t heard another single that will “catch’ the young crowd the same as LLWD to push CD sales. At this rate, he won’t reach gold for —-ever”
    Kris has a whole year ahead of him. He may not hit platinum, I think he will at least hit gold with his album. It just won’t be overnight.

  89. I remember being disappointed and surprised last year that David Cook didn’t go multiplatinum like Daughtry since I prefer Cook’s voice. What a difference a year makes, I would be thrilled if Adam went platinum in album sales. The album sales this year are pretty depressing compared to previous years.

  90. Why do you dispute this point? I think we have seen how those from AI have to work extra hard to overcome the stigma that they are in this position because of their personalities and not their talent.

    I dispute the point because, whether or not they got early sales bumps, Kris and Adam still *undeniably* came off of AI!!! Everybody knows that they are the people that a bunch of middle-aged tv viewers put in 100 million or so votes for in the closing episode of a tv talent show. I can’t imagine how you would lose the stigma just because you couldn’t even sell music to the people who voted for you!

    Right now, I will bet that there are at least some people in the industry and in the general public who look at them this way — Two guys who came off of AI and couldn’t even manage to sell much music to the known-to-be-rabid AI audience.

    Sorry, but it just defies logic to say that coming off AI as a poor seller means that everybody will forget you came off of AI!

    As I’ve said several times, I completely agree that the stabilizing and growth that we’ve seen in some of their sales *is* good news!

  91. I’m not sure how FYE & the KA album can be put in the same bucket when sales of FYE this week are 3X the sales of KA. That’s a pretty big difference imo.

    It’s not a big difference when the raw numbers are small to begin with

    Well, you can take the total sales numbers and FYE would be selling 2X as much as KA is. Also, FYE was outselling KA 10 to 1 internationally.

    I remember being disappointed and surprised last year that David Cook didn’t go multiplatinum like Daughtry since I prefer Cook’s voice. What a difference a year makes, I would be thrilled if Adam went platinum in album sales

    .

    The album sales this year are pretty depressing compared to previous years.

    Daughtry’s first album was 4 years ago. A lot has changed in how album sales work. Daughtry will never match his first album He would have outsold SuBo and Taylor Swift combiined if he had the same sales numbers this year.

    .

    The album sales this year are pretty depressing compared to previous years.

    Album sales are down across the board. You can’t compare this year or last year with 4 years ago.

  92. If the singles do well enough, then I can see this having an impact, but I think there are kind of too many “what ifs” here. Sure, more people know your single, but if that still isn’t translating to album sales (and typically, it won’t really until even more people hear it, and hear more than 1 single at that) it’s kind of a moot point. How many of Jordin’s millions of singles purchasers decided to buy the album, for instance?

    As with Gaga, we can look at Jordin’s album sales and see that they were very steady over the period where she released three top ten singles. I hate to compare, but people are always bringing up the fact that David Cook sold more albums than Jordin, but if we take out what I consider to be the idol honeymoon period, and look at their sales during the time that they released their second singles, we will see things in a different view. There is a huge difference between Jordin’s album sales during January through December, and the months when No Air and One Step At A Time were climbing the charts, and David’s from January to December, and when he released Come Back to Me. The hit singles obviously had a lot to do with Jordin’s consistent sales.

  93. I am sure 19E is extremely happy with ADam. They are not only getting a percentage of his music sales, they are getting a percentage of his appearances, magazine shoots, watch ads, sunglass ads, ET correspondance duties, etc as his managing team. Besides, with his music sales, he has made them about 5 million before expenses and about 700k on his single and video sales. Those are only US sales too. Canada alone probably sold enough to cover the two videos.

    On the other hand, Kris has made about 700k in single sales and about 2.5 million in CD sales before expenses. But, apparently, Jive likes the money they make off singles better.

  94. Just as a side note and fwiw, I’ve noticed that as albums pass gold, then get in the 700’s (sold not shipped), they tend to stall out at about that point and struggle to reach platinum. (ex. David A’s album, Taylor’s album, …maybe more, that’s off the top of my head), but I’m always glad to see any of the idols get into and pass the 800s, lol.

  95. Quick question: I have only seen platinum plaque presentations on the show. Have people received gold plaque presentations on the show before? If this season becomes the first time that will happen, I think that’s pretty much an acknowledgement by the show that gold has now become the new platinum.

  96. Sorry, but it just defies logic to say that coming off AI as a poor seller means that everybody will forget you came off of AI!

    I never said that people would forget that they came off of AI. I said that the slow starts, and especially in Kris’ case where we can see the correlation between the increase in LLWD’s airplay and the increase in sales, shows those in the industry that their numbers are more legitimate than the numbers that we have seen in the past. Both Kris and Adam benefited from being on AI, and even when LLWD only sold 39,000 during the first ten days that it was out, it was obvious that the numbers had more to do with AI than the song. But, I think overall, it’s clearer this year that the sales numbers have been due more to the music than people supporting their favorite from AI.

    Looking at what happened with David Archuleta, I think most people would assume that given how well Crush sold that PDs would be falling over themselves to play his second single, but that didn’t happen. The same is true with those from earlier years, given their enormous sales numbers PDs should have jumped at the chance to play their music, but again, it didn’t happen. Program Directors just were not fooled by sales that were more about the singers being on a show, than a true indication that people actually were into the music.

  97. Partial album sales figures from Idol Chatter:

    Carrie Underwood, Play On (18,000, +2 percent, 1.263 million)

    Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment (15,000, -22 percent, 492,000)

    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 2 (12,000, -27 percent, 499,000)

    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 1 (10,000, -29 percent, 703,000)

    Daughtry, Leave This Town (9,000, +7 percent, 916,000)

    Kris Allen, Kris Allen (5,000, -7 percent, 250,000)

    Carrie Underwood, Some Hearts (3,000, +20 percent, 6.929 million)

    Daughtry, Daughtry (3,000, +4 percent, 4.626 million)

    and a note from Brian:

    Note: I’ll probably have some more album data later in the day, and I’ll add it to this post.

  98. I am sure 19E is extremely happy with ADam. They are not only getting a percentage of his music sales, they are getting a percentage of his appearances, magazine shoots, watch ads, sunglass ads, ET correspondance duties, etc as his managing team. Besides, with his music sales, he has made them about 5 million before expenses and about 700k on his single and video sales. Those are only US sales too. Canada alone probably sold enough to cover the two videos.

    I’m curious, How do you know the details of Adam’s deal with 19? And how do you know how much RCA has to sale before they make a profit? Considering the expense that goes into making an album as well as promotion, it’s not like you can just add up the sales and call everything a profit.

  99. Quick question: I have only seen platinum plaque presentations on the show. Have people received gold plaque presentations on the show before?

    Yeah, I’ve wondered about this too. Although, Kris may get a platinum record on the show for his single. I wonder if they will give Adam multiple gold records (album, single (if it gets there), Canada gold, etc, to make up for lack of a platinum record.

  100. I am sure 19E is extremely happy with ADam. They are not only getting a percentage of his music sales, they are getting a percentage of his appearances, magazine shoots, watch ads, sunglass ads, ET correspondance duties, etc as his managing team. Besides, with his music sales, he has made them about 5 million before expenses and about 700k on his single and video sales. Those are only US sales too. Canada alone probably sold enough to cover the two videos

    I have no doubt that 19 is very happy with Adam. From his recent interview responses, I think, money-wise, he is doing quite well right now. All the gigs, media tie-ins, lots of it coming in for him (and I can def see potential for endorsement deals in the future as well). I think it’s more the RCA/music side of things that are the focus. And I don’t even think it’s an issue. He’s doing fine. But that part is probably not generating QUITE as much as the 19 side of things (see above post about so much focus being placed on ALL media for Adam, rather than just the music side of things).

  101. Many comparisons are made b/t Kris and Jordin saying they both are single sellers. Didn’t Jordin do better than 250,000 after 3months?

    She was at 490,000 and #44 on the BB200 at this point in 2007. In fact she stayed in the Top 50 quite a while.

    Why would Kris’s and Adam’s week five sales, for example, be assumed to come entirely outside the Idol bubble but Taylor’s or Cook’s week five sales be regarded more skeptically as coming from *within* the idol bubble? I see no reason anyone would conclude that at all!

    Since the same point is beaten into the ground anytime the lack of Kris’ album sales come up I’m guessing the best reasoning is that lumping David in with Taylor as those who never reached outside the AI bubble and failed to produce big hits is the only logical excuse to explain the huge, honking, glaring difference between the album numbers of last years and the current winner.

    Program Directors just were not fooled by sales that were more about the singers being on a show, than a true indication that people actually were into the music.

    At this point Crush sold a lot more than LLWD, and Archie sold a lot more albums too so better hope PD’s continue the pattern of not looking at sales when it comes to Kris’ 2nd single then I guess.

  102. I’m pretty sure that the overall theme for weeks has been that neither Kris or Adam is selling well, and that both are below what is expected from those who compete on the show.

    Don’t actually know what the expectations for Idol alums are — but IMO Adam is in line with non-winner Idol alums sales. I expected FYE to cross the 500K US Soundscan line in early February and looks like it will do that sometime this week. And I also expect it to go Platinum in about a year. Because with FYE sales of 35K in the last 2 weeks, FYE appears to have moved outside of Adam’s core Idol fanbase.

    Adam is now #9 in total album sales by an American Idol alum who did not win [#16 including winners]. Plus, with the upcoming UK, Japan and other international releases combined with continued solid sales in the US and Canada, looks like FYE will keep selling for a while.

  103. But, I think overall, it’s clearer this year that the sales numbers have been due more to the music than people supporting their favorite from AI

    Gotta agree with this… maybe I’d state it as such, “the lack of AI fan support, legitimizes the growth in sales and conversion of non-AI viewers to the artist’s music”. How’s that? ;)

  104. From Billboard Biz:

    Lady Antebellum Leads Banner Week For EMI
    February 03, 2010

    • Album units, current chart week: 6.50 million units
    • UP 11% from last week’s charts: 5.8 million units
    • DOWN .06% from the comparable week in 2009: 6.51 million units
    • This week: The top two albums on the Billboard 200 sell more than 100,000 copies.
    • This week last year on the Billboard 200: Bruce Springsteen’s “Working on a Dream” debuted at No. 1 with 224,000 while the “2009 Grammy Nominees” compilation entered at No. 6 with 33,000. The previous week’s topper, Taylor Swift’s “Fearless,” dropped to No. 2 with 55,000 (down 12%).

  105. Kids are buying LLWD cause its catchy and fun. I haven’t heard another single that will “catch’ the young crowd the same as LLWD to push CD sales. At this rate, he won’t reach gold for —-ever.

    I disagree, I think Kris has a fair amount of songs that could potentially be hit singles, AWM seems to have a lot of good feelings and it’s definitely a happy, catchy type song. I could see CSA doing well, I’m less sure about that, though I do think the live version could sell like hotcakes. Lots of people seem to like BWCU, so that could do well.

    So I don’t think that LLWD is the only radio friendly, and potential hit single off of Kris’s album.

  106. Babybelle, do you have numbers to support your contention that Jordin outsold DC in the year following release? I doubt this is true, especially when you consider his album outsold her first one by about 300k overall, in spite of coming out a year later. His sales of his one album outsold the sum of both of her albums even.

    I also wonder where you get your certainty that radio doesn’t care about album sales, only singles. Have you surveyed the PDs of hundreds of stations, or read it in an industry article? If that were true, no rock albums would be made any more. Perhaps this is true of pop radio? I’m pretty sure the labels, who foot the bill, care a great deal about album sales and are desperate to find a way to get the kind of money they generate.

    The diagrams put up a while back for album and single sales were very telling. Other than lacking the initial sales spikes of some prior Idols’ singles, the curves looked quite similar to prior Idols’ trajectories. They spike in similar places. I think to make the contention they are continuing to rise in a way prior Idols have not, we’d need a little longer time period to examine. So far, they are on the same pattern, just taking longer to get there. On albums, they are nowhere near recent past Idols in any week, not just lacking an initial huge sale. The graphs don’t support the contention that there is a continuous upward trend prior Idols lack. Rather, they start slower and are reaching a similar point.

  107. babybelle32, here’s what you said:

    “Why do you dispute this point? I think we have seen how those from AI have to work extra hard to overcome the stigma that they are in this position because of their personalities and not their talent.”

    All I’m saying is: Kris and Adam still have the stigma, whether or not they sold fewer albums out of the gate or not. I don’t see any way that their slow starts remove this stigma that you mentioned! The strong argument can still be made that they won those votes on AI because of their personalities — I can’t see how the fact of their lower sales thwarts this argument at all!

    That doesn’t mean that they — or any other Idol alum, whether a big or a small early seller — don’t have a chance to get past that stigma.

    Just like all the other alums, how their sales develop after the first month and moving on into subsequent months are what actually indicate how they’ll do in the music industry overall.

    And, just like any other alums, they will either sell more over time or end up dead in the water.

    All I’ve ever said is — I see no reason to believe that they are in a *better* position in any way because their post-Idol sales have been slow. And I’ve still seen zero evidence that this is true! No argument that you’ve made has actually touched on this point, in my opinion!

    I have never said that they are necessarily in a *worse* position, although I can see much more of an argument for asserting that than for asserting that they’re in a better position!

    Okay, I’m done now. I wish Kris and Adam very well and I think we see good evidence that they are doing better lately. So that’s indisputable good news.

  108. Diagrams!!!???? does anyone remember how far back they saw these. (I’m assuming they are not in this tread since I didn’t see a link)

  109. Since the same point is beaten into the ground anytime the lack of Kris’ album sales come up I’m guessing the best reasoning is that lumping David in with Taylor as those who never reached outside the AI bubble and failed to produce big hits is the only logical excuse to explain the huge, honking, glaring difference between the album numbers of last years and the current winner.

    Please do not assume the motives of your fellow posters. You have no idea what they’re thinking, unless you are a mind reader.

    This sort of rhetoric starts arguments, so please refrain from using it.

  110. Quick question: I have only seen platinum plaque presentations on the show. Have people received gold plaque presentations on the show before?

    Yeah, I’ve wondered about this too. Although, Kris may get a platinum record on the show for his single. I wonder if they will give Adam multiple gold records (album, single (if it gets there), Canada gold, etc, to make up for lack of a platinum record.

    Something tells me they just won’t award any plaques! … Or maybe they’ll bring Carrie in and give her another plaque — she just went platinum again on something, didn’t she? …

    Kris might get a platinum single in the course of the season, though, so they can do that one …. Do you get the big plaque for a platinum single?

  111. And if someone isn’t going to invest $10 for an album, I don’t see them rushing to spend $40-$80 for concert tickets.

    I’ve done it. Gone to a concert when I knew/owned maybe two to three songs by the artist. The difference is that going to a concert is a social event for me, so I see spending the $40-$80 as money I’m spending to have a great time (which I usually do), versus an album sale which I look at as an investment. Will I like this album enough in the future that I listen to many of the songs over and over again? Or will it be one of those albums where I like it on first listen (via the stream) but then I immediately lose interest once I take it home and figure out all the songs kinda sound the same (hi there FOB’s Folie a Deux!)? So I think high single sales do help — though for me, I don’t even have to own the song; I just need to have familiarity with some of the songs and so long as the company is right, I’m usually good to go.

  112. Wow – it sounds as though I’m alone in being happy about sales of FYE the album.

    Not at all alone- when week 10 shows (15,000, -22 percent, 492,000) we are all doing the happy dance!

    The whole picture-
    Week 1 11/30/09: #3 198,000 units, total 199,000 units
    Week 2 12/06/09: #22 51,000 units, total 250,000 units
    Week 3 12/13/09: #30 46,000 units, total 296,000 units
    Week 4 12/20/09: #29 59,000 units, total 355,000 units
    Week 5 12/27/09: #29 62,000 units, total 417,000 units
    Week 6 1/03/10: #36 17,000 units, total 434,000 units
    Week 7 1/10/10: #40 11,000 units, total 445,000 units
    Week 8 1/17/10: #35 12,000 units, total 457,000 units
    Week 9 1/24/10: #21 20,000 units, total 477,000 units
    Week 10 1/31/10 15,000, -22 percent, 492,000

    Yep! I am thrilled with FYEs numbers thsi week! Both the album AND the single are doing well!
    WWFM is moving up the charts in every way! It is doing extremely well on iTunes and spins/chart position for a song that has been out for 10 weeks.
    Even the single FYE is charting on the dance charts and international charts. Last week it was the #1 selling single internationally.
    Adam has two singles and an album that are selling well internationally. I’m happy RCA realizes that Adam has potential for international appeal and are planning to do a huge push outside the US.

  113. I agree that slow and steady can win the race. In the case of the music business that means hard work. The Davids both essentially have toured up until now for two years and to mostly sold out crowds. Archie builds his base with every new person who hears him sing live and watch the total control he has over the audience the minute he walks on stage. A lifetime career in music is what they want (with Adam I would say a lifetime career in entertainment because although he is a musician, music isn’t his life like it is for Archie. Archie is music. It pours out of him in every single conversation. That is why they call him a walking jukebox. Adam will succeed in the entertainment industry in whatever direction he wants to go. No one wants to be a flash in the pan. They are in it for the long haul and they can not have non-stop hits, there will be ups and downs but if they are the musicians that they seem to be, they will make a place for themselves and hopefully get over the stigma of Idol. The fact is that every Idol has to work harder to prove that they deserve to be in the music industry which is sad since many of them have been musicians/singers, etc. since they were very young. Like a ballet star who has been working since a child or a football player who started in 6th grade. Many of these Idols have been working their craft and deserve respect.

  114. I also don’t think there’s reason to believe the AI8er’s music is more current than any past Idol winners. Of all their music, I’d say the current singles of both sound pretty current, but I’m not sure the balance is any more current than past Idols’ stuff. Carrie is very much a part of a different country sound, so much so that she is disliked by some country folks for it. AL is trying to revive glam rock – a genre from what, 30 years ago? I don’t see that many glam rockers out there in the forefront of music today, so it doesn’t seem to have caught on that much, if at all. Daughtry and DC have often been compared to groups that are chart-toppers currently, just not always in the pop world. I think the discussion of what’s current tends to get off track here due to people only looking at pop. And can we say that Kelly’s songs aren’t current? She zooms up the charts with every song, setting radio records in her wake.

  115. I am happy that LLWD is continuing to sell 60K a week and that it is continuing to do well on Pop and HAC. Maybe I am lame, but I could really care less how he compares to anyone else. I will be happy if he is able to continue making a living out of something he loves to do.

  116. Adam is now #9 in total album sales by an American Idol alum who did not win [#16 including winners].

    I see the potential to look at this as a good thing, and also a negative thing. Adam will keep selling albums so he will move higher on this list, so without question he is a success. At the same time, coming off of Idol people were saying that Adam was going to be one of the biggest Idol alums ever. I think several months in to his new CD it is safe to say that FYE era Adam will not be joining the upper echelon. He certainly has proved he is a viable recording artist and I would say a star, but he will not be included in the discussions of the best Idols, because he hasn’t had the success of a daughtry, Carrie, Kelly, or even Jennifer. He still can, looking at the example of jennifer getting later success, but I think there is always some disappointment when a season doesn’t produce a super star.

  117. Even the single FYE is charting on the dance charts and international charts. Last week it was the #1 selling single internationally.

    Seriously? #1 single internationally?? Where did this news come from?

    Also, FYE is part of the ITunes Valentines sale thing. Does this $7.99 deal run until the 14th?

  118. Even the single FYE is charting on the dance charts and international charts. Last week it was the #1 selling single internationally

    link please………

  119. At the same time, coming off of Idol people were saying that Adam was going to be one of the biggest Idol alums ever.

    He still could. We won’t know this until the end of life for ALL Idol albums, even current season since they will be Idol alums. Plus, if you count international sales, who knows.

  120. “‘Why would Kris’s and Adam’s week five sales, for example, be assumed to come entirely outside the Idol bubble but Taylor’s or Cook’s week five sales be regarded more skeptically as coming from *within* the idol bubble? I see no reason anyone would conclude that at all!’

    “Since the same point is beaten into the ground anytime the lack of Kris’ album sales come up I’m guessing the best reasoning is that lumping David in with Taylor as those who never reached outside the AI bubble and failed to produce big hits is the only logical excuse to explain the huge, honking, glaring difference between the album numbers of last years and the current winner. “

    Actually, the only reason I put David C and Taylor into the same sentence is because their five-weeks-out-and-later trajectories were so different! Obviously I wasn’t making myself clear, but the only way I intended to lump David and Taylor together was with the fact that they both got the early Idol bump.

    The only point I was trying to make was that, whether somebody comes off Idol with a big immediate sales bounce or not (and David and Taylor did while Kris and Adam didn’t), once that quick bounce is over I’m pretty sure that the industry makes its judgments on people’s appeal and marketability based on the assumption that the later sales are not to AI devotees but to the general public (or at least the non-diehard AI fans). And, once that quick bounce is over, your sales can go any old way, and the way they go then depends on you and the music put out under your name and not on your AI status.

    Once you’re a month or so out, your general appeal — or lack of it — begins to show and I doubt that the industry still casts too much of a jaundiced eye on those later sales as tainted by your being a talent-show contestant.

    Thus, the industry has been well able to distinguish among a Taylor, who turned out to have only a niche appeal despite the Idol bump; David C, who turned out to have a much greater ability to build and sustain at least a modestly growing long-term fanbase; Jordin, who is clearly able to sell singles outside the idol bubble but albums, not so much; etc.

    I’m sure the same kinds of individual judgments will ultimately be made about Kris’s and Adam’s later sales. And the early big sales bump or the lack of it (in their case) won’t much figure in one way or another.

    First month’s sales say something about your effect on the Idol audience. Subsequent sales say more about whether you’re connecting with the world at large.

    They all start out with some stigma, but they can all shed it, if their later sales are solid, is my opinion. And I do think that the industry ultimately judges them all without really taking that stigma into account. I don’t believe record labels care about stigma. They care about what they see as long-term marketability. And quite a few people from AI have proven that having the taint of AI about you does *not* necessarily mean that you’ll always be a mere talent-show winner, where the industry’s concerned, I think.

    Rock purists and the like probably will stigmatize you forever, of course!

  121. Babybelle, you are again making a lot of assumptions to conclude that sales to Idol watchers are about the person, not the music. I became a fan of various Idols over the years because of the music. Some of it so captivated me that I can’t say I’ve ever been so impacted by music ever. It had nothing to do with the person. I can cite tons of anecdotal incidents of people who heard someone on Idol from another room, not normally having watched it before, and came running to hear who it was. I’ve heard that about AL as well as DC, mostly. For me, that is the voice, not the person. Further, many have been further pulled in by pre-Idol music, and knowledge of someone’s songwriting ability demonstrated there. I’ve heard that of DC, AL, and KA. Why are purchases from Idol fans any less legitimate than sales to radio fans? And why would a PD be anxiously checking to see if sales were tracking with radio play? If that were the case, nothing would play in recurrency, as sales at that stage typically have dropped a lot, but a song can still be quite popular, especially outside of pop radio. I understand many here think only top 40 counts, but HAC is big (and turning out to be bigger in audience than once thought) and so is AC and country.

    As far as charts, springboard put up a post at 12:18 with charts for singles and albums sales of recent winners and runners-up.

  122. Amuzing to see people fascination with sales and comparaisons with other artists. The important point for me is that the sales are good enough for the recording company that a second album will follow the first one.

    With the availability of the videos on Vevo, HV1 and the like, the driving force to selling album will probably now shift to videos even more than radio airplays as the videos often include a link to buy, this probably will be the end-up being the new type of impulse buying.

    From my personal buying habit: I like one or two songs on an album, I buy the songs. I like more than four songs on an album, I buy the album and this is probably also true for a lot of people. Also when I buy an album on ITunes I also buy a hard copy to play on my sound system.

  123. I also wonder where you get your certainty that radio doesn’t care about album sales, only singles. Have you surveyed the PDs of hundreds of stations, or read it in an industry article? If that were true, no rock albums would be made any more. Perhaps this is true of pop radio? I’m pretty sure the labels, who foot the bill, care a great deal about album sales and are desperate to find a way to get the kind of money they generate.

    IndyMuse:
    ITA. I thought the main goal was album sales. I thought the hope was that single sales drive album sales.
    Look at all the big album sellers that don’t even get their singles played on the radio. Most of them are also the artists who sell out concerts over many years.
    Sure, it’s nice to have both single and album sales. I would think record labels would prefer to have huge sales in the album and concert tour categories over the single sales category.

    Many comparisons are made b/t Kris and Jordin saying they both are single sellers. Didn’t Jordin do better than 250,000 after 3months?

    She was at 490,000 and #44 on the BB200 at this point in 2007. In fact she stayed in the Top 50 quite a while.

    So Jordin was selling 2X more than Kris at this same time. It looks like Jordin and Adam are more comparable. They seem to be at about the same position sales wise and on the album charts. (What percentage have album sales dropped from TWO years ago?)

  124. Even the single FYE is charting on the dance charts and international charts. Last week it was the #1 selling single internationally

    link please………

    I don’t have it, but I found the link and information from a post at this site. It also had WWFM and LLWD in the top 10. I’m thinking it was in the Monday or Wednesday sales thread.

  125. People are still not buying Kris the artist. Kids are buying LLWD cause its catchy and fun. I haven’t heard another single that will “catch’ the young crowd the same as LLWD to push CD sales. At this rate, he won’t reach gold for —-ever.

    Really, that kind of assumption always confounds me because the only way to know that is to survey everyone. Do we have demographic-based breakdowns of LLWD sales so we know for sure that only “kids” are buying? We’ve gone over this again and again and again that it is not uncommon for people to wait for a second or third single before they buy an album. Will that happen with Kris? Who knows. WAY too soon to be singing funeral dirges for his album, I’d think. Kris is doing very well with LLWD. His album sales suck. Adam’s doing ok with his album sales. I haven’t followed his single sales at all except FYE didn’t go anywhere. Things could change, or not, for both. I still think they are both underperforming, but we won’t know until after Season 9 if this is a trend that will continue for Idol winners/runners up… or that it was a specific blip for these two. And either, both or neither could suddenly blow up… and it could change everything.

  126. ITA. I thought the main goal was album sales. I thought the hope was that single sales drive album sales.
    Look at all the big album sellers that don’t even get their singles played on the radio.

    Totally agree too! It’s about making money. These are companies. Selling 1 million singles is 1/10th as good as selling one million albums. It’s just plain and simple math.

  127. Last week it was the #1 selling single internationally

    Really? If someone could come up with a link that’s great. I just don’t pay all that much attention so must’ve missed it the first time it was mentioned.

    All I know about radio play right now is I hear LLWD on 99.5 here in DC every time I turn on my radio. Which isn’t a shock since they play the same damn 10 songs over and over and over and over. So at least that’s a song I LIKE amongst the 3,000 rotations of Britney’s “3” which I do NOT like so much. They still play Crush, too. They ignored my poor Cookie completely. Maybe next time, lol.

  128. I may be in the minority here, but I’m more concerned with career longevity than I am with who is selling more now. Sure, I’d love to see better sales numbers for Adam’s and (especially) Kris’s album. But netiher guy is tanking, and I think that as long as they do well enough to not lose their record deal anytime soon, both will be successful (if not necessarily stars) for years to come.

    Let me ask you this. Five years from now, who is more likely to have a song on the radio charts (assuming there still ARE radio charts — LOL), Kris or Justin Bieber? Given the poor overall track record of former tween/teen idols sustaining their careers, I’d go with Kris on this one. His fanbase is older (I’d say the majority of his fans fall in the 18-35 range), and an 18-35 fanbase seems a lot less fickle than a fanbase made up mainly of tweens (like Bieber). I don’t know this for sure since I’m well past my tween years, but it seems like the Jonas Brothers are already on the downward path in terms of popularity, eclipsed by Bieber. Who, in turn, will likely be eclipsed by another cute boy singer in the next couple of years.

    Who is more likely to still be talked up so much in the media 5 years from now — Susan Boyle or Adam? Got to go with Adam on this one. The novelty of SueBo’s story will wear off, leaving her with performing decent versions of cover songs. Unless she continues to have issues with her health (esp. her mental health), will the media (or the general public) care about her? Meanwhile, Adam will likely continue to evolve as a musician and performer. The media probably won’t be quite as enthusiastic about him, but I think there’s a much better chance of him being a star 5 years from now than there is of SueBo being one. Adam is WAY more about the music than SueBo is, or ever was. I think that while he will still be a “personality,” the emphasis will soon shift to his actual music, which will be to his advantage.

    JMO of course, YMMV.

  129. Let me ask you this. Five years from now, who is more likely to have a song on the radio charts (assuming there still ARE radio charts — LOL), Kris or Justin Bieber? Given the poor overall track record of former tween/teen idols sustaining their careers, I’d go with Kris on this one. His fanbase is older (I’d say the majority of his fans fall in the 18-35 range), and an 18-35 fanbase seems a lot less fickle than a fanbase made up mainly of tweens (like Bieber). I don’t know this for sure since I’m well past my tween years, but it seems like the Jonas Brothers are already on the downward path in terms of popularity, eclipsed by Bieber. Who, in turn, will likely be eclipsed by another cute boy singer in the next couple of years.

    Who is more likely to still be talked up so much in the media 5 years from now — Susan Boyle or Adam? Got to go with Adam on this one. The novelty of SueBo’s story will wear off, leaving her with performing decent versions of cover songs. Unless she continues to have issues with her health (esp. her mental health), will the media (or the general public) care about her? Meanwhile, Adam will likely continue to evolve as a musician and performer.

    ITA

  130. I know there was a link to FYE being the #1 single on Chinese radio last week, but I don’t remember anything about FYE being #1 single internationally.

    I found it amusing that Canada added FYE yesterday to a radio station :)

  131. Looking at what happened with David Archuleta, I think most people would assume that given how well Crush sold that PDs would be falling over themselves to play his second single, but that didn’t happen.

    I’m sorry. I’m not even a fan of Archie’s music, but I have to disagree with this. Crush was an out of the box hit, and although sales were fueled by his AI fanbase at first, it didn’t blow up big as it did because it was only about his AI fanbase. As we’ve learned from both LLWD, FYE and WWFM, PDs are going to play AI debut singles based on whether there’s a demand for that type of music, not because it’s an AI alum’s debut single. That’s just inanity. The problem IMO with Archie’s subsequent singles is that his best, most radio friendly song was Crush and the album itself (and this is just my opinion) didn’t have any other songs as good as Crush. It will be the same for Kris and Adam when it comes time for the second (or third, depending on how you look at it) singles.

    Also, as far as PDs being open to certain artists because they are seen as more legit vs. AI. Yes, there’s that, but you still have to have the right songs. People don’t remember this anymore, what with Pink being so successfull with Funhouse, but before that she actually had a bit of a problem in the US with singles from her last album. She did fine with Stupid Girls, the first single, but Who Knew, the second single just (initially) would NOT chart on the Hot 100 despite her proven track record on radio. Finally she released her third single, U + Ur Hand, which didn’t chart for THREE months. It was only when that single finally took off that she re-released Who Knew and it finally started to chart. So even VERY established artists can have problems getting their singles played. Anyway all this is really to show that you can’t make any generalizations about what it means when singles, much less second singles from AI alums, fail to get traction on radio.

  132. The last I heard, virtually all the sales figures from other countries are suspect. Perhaps iTunes or Amazon is reliable by country for singles, but beyond that, I’d be suspicious. Further, the last I knew, there is no international clearing house for music sales totals so you could aggregate the already-suspect country by country numbers to make a confident assertion about total foreign sales. Again, maybe you can get iTunes or Amazon singles figures, but doubt albums can be tracked reliably. I’d be happy to be corrected with a list of legit sources.

  133. Let me ask you this. Five years from now, who is more likely to have a song on the radio charts (assuming there still ARE radio charts — LOL), Kris or Justin Bieber?

    I’m more likely to have a hit song on the radio charts over Justin Bieber! :)
    Seriously, wait until he reaches puberty and his voice changes and he looks like a young man. The tweenies will then move on to someone else. The appeal right now is that he has the voice and look of a twelve year old. He is “non-threatning”.

    but it seems like the Jonas Brothers are already on the downward path in terms of popularity, eclipsed by Bieber. Who, in turn, will likely be eclipsed by another cute boy singer in the next couple of years.

    Exactly! So it’s really not a great accomplishment at this point if an artist is more likely to “beat out” Justin Bieber in a few years. I think that line would be a very, very long one.

    I’m betting SuBo puts out some flippin album of Christmas covers next year and blows the roof off album sales again. Next years idol winner and runner-up with be up against her Christmas album. LOL!

  134. but it seems like the Jonas Brothers are already on the downward path in terms of popularity, eclipsed by Bieber. Who, in turn, will likely be eclipsed by another cute boy singer in the next couple of years.

    Exactly! So it’s really not a great accomplishment at this point if an artist is more likely to “beat out” Justin Bieber in a few years. I think that line would be a very, very long one.

    True. But it also shows that you don’t have to be an Idol alum to be a one-hit wonder!

  135. I may be in the minority here, but I’m more concerned with career longevity than I am with who is selling more now.

    I think that’s what gets lost in the whole Idol fanwar/angst thing. We’ll all have to wait and see what happens for the Idols down the road. No way to guess right now. I think both Adam & Kris have albums that are pretty true to who they are (or who I think they are, since I don’t know either) and that can’t hurt when trying to lay down the tracks of a music career. It’s fun to watch, anyway, if you can get over or avoid the fanwarring stuff and realize that the “other guy” (or “other gal”) really has nothing to do with your favorite’s future in the music business.

  136. Adam’s doing ok with his album sales. I haven’t followed his single sales at all except FYE didn’t go anywhere.

    Adam is staying in the top 40 on the album sales charts. He has comparable numbers to both Jordin and Archie. His WWFM sales are actually better than LLWD were at week 10. FYE is continuing to sell both here and internationally and is climbing the dance charts.
    The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook. Cook won his season, Adam didn’t.

  137. Hey, I’m not a Beiber fan, but how the hell does anyone know who’s going to be successfull in the long run???

    I bet no one thought Justin Timberlake would ever be taken seriously as an artist when he was with N’Sync… or Robbie Williams when he was with Take That…

    Or forget “taken seriuosly”- even staying a star is something some of you are saying he can’t do- who ever thought Britney effin Spears would last more than a year or two as such a big pop star?

    So you really never know… he might still be a star in a few more years

  138. Have these been posted already?

    POP:
    20 17 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 3749 3452 297 21.977
    +27 Spins
    -62 Bullet
    +0.221 AI

    HAC:
    10 8 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 2851 2573 278 14.636
    +29 Spins
    +8 Bullet
    +0.091 AI

    POP:
    26 22 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 2740 2325 415 19.936
    +78 Spins
    +40 Bullet
    +0.825 AI

    HAC:
    33 30 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 579 433 146 2.013
    +23 Spins
    +22 Bullet
    +0.056 AI

    That is a huge jump in AI for Adam on Pop chart

    62 64 ALLISON IRAHETA Friday I’ll Be Over U 221 206 15 0.419

    iTunes
    #27 LLWD
    #29 WWFM

    they’re hanging in there, despite the influx of charity singles and Grammy stuff…

  139. P.S. Who is Katharine McPhee’s manager? Her album which looks to have fallen off the BB 200 has probably sold around 25K total and yet she gets amazing gigs. Her manager deserves some kind of Nobel Prize for agency or something.

    I’ve been wondering the same thing for years. I’ve never understood her appeal though, so maybe it’s just me.

  140. Also, as far as PDs being open to certain artists because they are seen as more legit vs. AI. Yes, there’s that, but you still have to have the right songs. People don’t remember this anymore, what with Pink being so successfull with Funhouse, but before that she actually had a bit of a problem in the US with singles from her last album. She did fine with Stupid Girls, the first single, but Who Knew, the second single just (initially) would NOT chart on the Hot 100 despite her proven track record on radio. Finally she released her third single, U + Ur Hand, which didn’t chart for THREE months. It was only when that single finally took off that she re-released Who Knew and it finally started to chart. So even VERY established artists can have problems getting their singles played. Anyway all this is really to show that you can’t make any generalizations about what it means when singles, much less second singles from AI alums, fail to get traction on radio.

    I think it’s part quality, hype and just general PD preferences that decide what gets played. Jlo and Mariahs latest singles have had major problems. I don’t think Shakiras single did superwell. Rihannas RR didn’t work right?

    Then again, According to You is charting very well even though itunes sales are not really supporting it. Orianthi is a hot chick with a guitar and there seem to be a lack of rock chicks right now…

  141. I’m wondering why Danny’s single doesn’t seem to be selling. He’s doing well on the country chart and his MV is #9 on the country chart on iTunes. But the single doesn’t seem to be selling much at all. I know country tends to be more of an album market than a singles market, but there are country artists who sell a bunch of singles. It’s probably too soon to worry, since his album’s not out for another month yet. But I admit I thought it would be doing at least a little better by now…

  142. I’m wondering why Danny’s single doesn’t seem to be selling. He’s doing well on the country chart and his MV is #9 on the country chart on iTunes. But the single doesn’t seem to be selling much at all. I know country tends to be more of an album market than a singles market, but there are country artists who sell a bunch of singles. It’s probably too soon to worry, since his album’s not out for another month yet. But I admit I thought it would be doing at least a little better by now…

    Well, doesn’t it seem that you have to kind of get over a hump with the radio play — past a certain number of markets and through a time period that allows people to hear the song a few times — before sales kick in?

    Seems to me that most (not all, I hasten to say!) of the singles seem to be stalling on the sales front for a while after radio play begins, but then those that are destined to do well on radio reach some sort of critical mass and people start buying. We definitely saw that with both LLWD and WWFM, this year, at any rate.

  143. Babybelle, do you have numbers to support your contention that Jordin outsold DC in the year following release? I doubt this is true, especially when you consider his album outsold her first one by about 300k overall, in spite of coming out a year later.

    I haven’t thought about comparing the sales this way, but thinking about it, it is likely true that Jordin did outsell David Cook from January to December in the year following their album release. Not by a lot I think, probably 100K or so, perhaps someone else has the exact figure.

    It does show the importance of having hit singles, which is why even if Kris’s album sales is looking a bit sickly at the moment, with a couple of big hits it can help shift his album by quite a bit. In Jordin’s case it probably helped her to sell 300-400K extra copies. It might be more useful to compare it with David Archuleta’s album because both Archie’s and Jordin’s first singles were hits, but Archie’s second single flopped while Jordin’s No Air was a huge hit, and Archie’s album sales started flat-lining pretty soon afterwards while Jordin’s soared (well, sort of, comparatively speaking). The difference is more dramatic I think.

  144. The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook. Cook won his season, Adam didn’t.

    I said *I THINK* he is underperforming. That is my perception, there’s no reason to try to counter it with his current stats. Based on the hype and media fascination with him, I thought he’d be doing better at this point. Period. Doesn’t mean things won’t continue to swing upwards for him, doesn’t mean they aren’t now. But you are allowed to think he’s not underperforming, I’m allowed to think he is.

    BTW, my perception has absolutely nothing to do with Cook, and since I didn’t mention Cook at any point… I had no intention of bringing him into it.

  145. tiger92
    02/03/2010 at 1:14 pm

    Even the single FYE is charting on the dance charts and international charts. Last week it was the #1 selling single internationally.

    not sure where you’re getting that info, but i can assure you that’s false. even without the charts at hand, it just wouldn’t be logical to assume it’s outselling tik tok or bad romance. probably not even outselling WWFM.

    it’s hard to gauge international sales, but i usually look at this site. it includes u.s. sales which heavily skews against the “international” (swift’s latest song sales are mostly U.S sales.; i assume it’s tougher to get data everywhere else), but if you want an estimate of how much a song sold internationally the past week, just subtract whatever it sold on the billboard digital songs track and that will give you a very rough estimate.

    http://www.mediatraffic.de/tracks.htm

    top 5 for those who don’t wanna click: kesha, lady gaga, owl city, taylor swift, iyaz.

    kris down at 38.

  146. I haven’t thought about comparing the sales this way, but thinking about it, it is likely true that Jordin did outsell David Cook from January to December in the year following their album release.

    Jordin outsold David by a narrow margin:


    Jordin

    WE December 31 2007: 407 K
    WE November 23 2007: 956K
    sold 550k in 11 months

    David Cook
    WE December 28 2008: 812K
    WE End December 09: under 1300k
    sold under 500k in 12 months

  147. iTunes
    #27 LLWD
    #29 WWFM

    they’re hanging in there, despite the influx of charity singles and Grammy stuff

    Good job for both boys for hanging in there, despite the Grammys pushing them lower. Good news, so thanks for sharing.

  148. I may be in the minority here, but I’m more concerned with career longevity than I am with who is selling more now. Sure, I’d love to see better sales numbers for Adam’s and (especially) Kris’s album. But netiher guy is tanking, and I think that as long as they do well enough to not lose their record deal anytime soon, both will be successful (if not necessarily stars) for years to come.

    I agree & want to add that we don’t even have an idea what the music industry will look like in 5 years. I shudder to think what will happen if illegal downloading continues.

    Will there be new technologies that will change how/why certain music is purchased? Are artists a dying breed? Will music just be a partial revenue stream to overall entertainment. Will videos become more important?

    If AI is still alive in 5 years, I don’t think we will be debating sales numbers with past idols anymore.

  149. “Adam is staying in the top 40 on the album sales charts. He has comparable numbers to both Jordin and Archie. His WWFM sales are actually better than LLWD were at week 10. FYE is continuing to sell both here and internationally and is climbing the dance charts.
    The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook. Cook won his season, Adam didn’t.”

    Except FYE was intended for Top 40 radio, not the dance charts. Adam certainly underperformed in that regard.

  150. I think just some of the Europeans will understand this but FYE is #10 on Spotify’s Finland top100 most played songs chart. Impressive.

  151. I think just some of the Europeans will understand this but FYE is #10 on Spotify’s Finland top100 most played songs chart. Impressive.

    Well, that’s impressive to me and I’m not even European. Spotify is huge, as I understand it. … I do think it’s hilarious that Finland and New Zealand, for example, are so excited about FYE. What a quirky world we live in.

  152. Oh i used to use Spotify, i think its time to start using it again.

  153. Except FYE was intended for Top 40 radio, not the dance charts. Adam certainly underperformed in that regard.

    Don’t tell Gaga’s little monsters.. they might disagree with this. L. Gaga’s 2 Grammys were for dance track & album. I think the Little Monsters are probably a force to be dealt with. (Before anyone goes there… no I am not comparing Adam to L/ gaga) Just a side funny that dance tracks are of value to someone.

  154. Though people denigrate singles sales (vs. album sales), what singles sales prove to me — regardless of the artist — is that buyers like the song and/or the artist. Most likely they’ve heard the artist on the radio or maybe on TV, and like what they hear, so they buy.

    Albums are mostly bought on faith — unless several hit singles have already emerged from the album. For that reason, I’ve always felt early sales of an artist’s first album are based on hype, reviews, or something other than the music. Because most people haven’t heard the music yet. There’s no proof that those who buy the album even end up liking the music.

    So while singles sales may not be as profitable, I think if an artist has several hit singles it’s a big seal of approval because people are usually buying what they’ve heard, not what they haven’t heard.

  155. Wow, spins seem to be creeping up for WWFM in the Tampa market. I’ve heard it 3 times since 10 am today.

    FYE, the song that had no hook until it crossed the US border, lol.

  156. So while singles sales may not be as profitable, I think if an artist has several hit singles it’s a big seal of approval because people are usually buying what they’ve heard, not what they haven’t heard.

    Good point.

    I don’t know that anybody really denigrates them much, though, except to say that the labels aren’t getting nearly as much money out of one’s million single sales than they would out of one’s million album sales — so therefore they probably aren’t as good a guarantee that your label will keep supporting you over the long haul. …. Seems like, in the past at least, labels generally expected people to start selling albums and not just singles at some point ….

    Who knows whether that is all changing, though?

  157. Albums are mostly bought on faith — unless several hit singles have already emerged from the album. For that reason, I’ve always felt early sales of an artist’s first album are based on hype, reviews, or something other than the music.

    This is a little contradictory. I’d say that albums are bought on faith. For me a good example is “The xx”. I read a 2009 round up review on a UK website. read the description then listened to 2 videos. Loved what I heard and also liked the snippets on iTunes, so I bought the album. I bought this album completely on faith, not on hype or a radio smash.

  158. Yeah the Spotify things is a much more accurate measurement of success than itunes. I think albums chart easily on itunes in Scandinavia because most people either pirate music, use Spotify or buy the physical CD.

    It’s always funny to hear about how popular an artist is in Europe, when in fact the artist is not very known at all. I checked Spotify 2 weeks ago and FYE was not on there but since then I think they started to play it on the radio and now it’s on the Spotify chart.

  159. For that reason, I’ve always felt early sales of an artist’s first album are based on hype, reviews, or something other than the music. Because most people haven’t heard the music yet. There’s no proof that those who buy the album even end up liking the music.

    In an era of authorized streams, to say nothing of unauthorized leaks and youtube rips, I think this may be less true than in the past, but it’s probably still a valid point.

    Album sales are generally more profitable than single sales. Album sales also accrue better press than single sales. But, after ringtones, synchronization options, and the like, the value of a strong single is probably more than just a straight 1/10 of an album.

  160. lorismile, when you say, “well, according to . . . ” with regard to Adam’s performance in international charts, are you trying to counter people who are doubting that Adam had the #1 charting single internationally? Because Finland, New Zealand and Canada are kinda small potatoes, don’t you think? Okay, maybe Canada is relatively large, but I’d think Adam would have to be up there in the UK, Germany, France, Sweden, Australia, + a bunch of other Top 10 selling countries for it to make sense that he would have the #1 selling international single.

    Also, although that link to the Latvian Academic Network’s list of links to different country’s charts was interesting, it is also awfully limited and we don’t know the reliability of the charts that they link to. Also, it seems that there are many countries that don’t keep track of consolidated singles sales (at least in an publicly accessible fashion) and the links to the various radio stations are only limited to that particular radio station and we don’t know which stations have large audience versus smaller ones. In the US, we know how those rankings can differ wildly from station to station.

    I’m still highly doubtful of that #1 selling international single that’s being bandied about.

  161. This is a little contradictory. I’d say that albums are bought on faith. For me a good example is “The xx”. I read a 2009 round up review on a UK website. read the description then listened to 2 videos. Loved what I heard and also liked the snippets on iTunes, so I bought the album. I bought this album completely on faith, not on hype or a radio smash.

    I’m sorry, what’s the contradiction? Reviews are really a form of hype at some level. The snippets less so obviously, but even in your own words and in a particular example (which shouldn’t stand as a general buying habit anyway), I’d say that hype played a role here, and that hype and faith are heavily related concepts.

  162. Idol Chatter now has all of the figures.

    Carrie Underwood, Play On (18,000, +2 percent, 1.263 million/3,000 digital, -7 percent, 134,000 digital total)

    Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment (15,000, -22 percent, 492,000/2,000, -37 percent, 64,000 digital total)

    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 2 (12,000, -27 percent, 499,000/3,000 digital, -27 percent, 109,000 digital total)

    Glee Cast, Glee: The Music, Vol. 1 (10,000, -29 percent, 703,000/3,000 digital, -32 percent, 146,000 digital total)

    Daughtry, Leave This Town (9,000, +7 percent, 916,000/2,000 digital, +2 percent, 157,000 digital total)

    Kris Allen, Kris Allen (5,000, -7 percent, 250,000/1,000 digital, -5 percent, 42,000 digital total)

    Daughtry, Daughtry (3,000, +4 percent, 4.626 million)

    Kelly Clarkson, All I Ever Wanted (3,000, -7 percent, 828,000)

    Carrie Underwood, Carnival Ride (3,000, +1 percent, 3.056 million)

    Kellie Pickler, Kellie Pickler (2,000, -2 percent, 381,000)

    Kellie Pickler, Small Town Girl (1,000, +16 percent, 845,000

  163. Mark –

    To Me:
    Hype insinuates that a product doesn’t have anything behind it. You could say that the review I read was one person’s opinion, maybe there was even a marketing spin somehow behind it. I’ll go with that (actually the review was more of a description) However, faith to me, is having some sort of sampling before hand, whether a snippet or or even buying a simple single – and making the leap that the same quality songs will be found in the rest of the album. To me hype and faith are different.

  164. I read a 2009 round up review on a UK website. read the description then listened to 2 videos. Loved what I heard and also liked the snippets on iTunes, so I bought the album. I bought this album completely on faith,

    Is it still faith when you heard two songs and really liked them and then heard snippets of all the rest and decided that they might be comparably good? …. That sounds like evidence to me!

  165. That sounds like evidence to me!

    There is still a leap of faith. You can’t tell a song by 30 second… but I wouldn’t call it hype. Plus it depends on what 10 bucks means to you. LOL

    ETA: “Just read that LLWD made the top 40 in Romania this week!”
    Good for Kris.

  166. If you want to avoid getting caught up in numbers (due to the decline in album sales), compare chart positions. Idol has produced three singers who had the #1 or #2 albums of their year. The last one to achieve that was Daughtry.

    If no one from S8 gets a platinum album, it will also be a first for Idol.
    No insult but I’m not sure sales in Romania, Finland or Latvia establish superstardom. Germany, Japan and England are the big buyers of music. Sales in Latvia may not be as massive as people here may think. :)

    Also don’t assume iTunes sells much music in countries outside the U.S.

  167. There is still a leap of faith. You can’t tell a song by 30 second…

    Well, I was actually meaning the hearing of two songs in their entirety!

    then having the impression you got from the two entire songs backed up by the 30-second snippets …..

    If it were the snippets alone, then I’d call it faith, too!

  168. The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook.

    He’s trailing David Archuleta in album sales by about 20%. And I think it’s fair to assume RCA has spent a lot more promoting Adam than Jive spent on Archie. So in terms of making money for their respective labels, I’d say at this point Adam is underperforming Archie significantly. That said, Archie’s second single was DOA at radio, which pretty much spelled the end of his album run. I fully expect Adam to get another single after WWFM and if it does well FYE will likely end up selling more than DATR did. Whether that will translate to higher profits for the label given the money they are spending is another matter, and of course that we’ll never really know.

  169. And I think it’s fair to assume RCA has spent a lot more promoting Adam than Jive spent on Archie.

    I don’t think that it is fair to assume that RCA or 19 has spent more $$ promoting Adam. While Adam has had a lot of media interest and articles etc. written about him, most of that doesn’t cost RCA/19 a dime (beyond the salary of the PR people who field and supervise such offers, but those people exist for everyone). Other than the AMAs and Oprah, Adam did and got the same talk show/radio interviews/jingle ball/music video promo that cook, allen, archie did. In fact, Adam did fewer of these appearances than cook, allen and archie. No one here knows how much the AMA performance cost and what amount of the cost (if any) was picked up by the producers of the show. And the cost of doing oprah is the same cost as appearing on any other talk show of which cook, allen, archie each did plenty of. So where did RCA spend all of this supposed extra money on Adam promo? I will grant you that Adam has had a lot of media coverage and opportunities; but I do not believe that it resulted in increased costs to RCA/19.

  170. ross
    02/03/2010 at 4:06 pm
    Though people denigrate singles sales (vs. album sales), what singles sales prove to me — regardless of the artist — is that buyers like the song and/or the artist. Most likely they’ve heard the artist on the radio or maybe on TV, and like what they hear, so they buy.

    Albums are mostly bought on faith — unless several hit singles have already emerged from the album. For that reason, I’ve always felt early sales of an artist’s first album are based on hype, reviews, or something other than the music. Because most people haven’t heard the music yet. There’s no proof that those who buy the album even end up liking the music.

    So while singles sales may not be as profitable, I think if an artist has several hit singles it’s a big seal of approval because people are usually buying what they’ve heard, not what they haven’t heard.

    I do not denigrate singles sales vs. album sales but most singles sell for $1.29 and most albums for over $10. Selling albums just helps the record label and artist get to a profit sooner [if they ever get there]. And music sales are just one of many revenue streams that the labels and artists have. There is licensing, publishing, ringtones, video sales, concert revenues, merchandising, etc. There is even ad revenue for Adam’s balance sheet from the banner ads on AO.com.

    I also do not agree that most albums are bought on faith. Since you can sample an entire album before you buy it — most albums are not bought on faith. Sure, presales are bought on faith in many cases because people often purchase before they can sample them, but just using FYE as an example — you can sample every track on iTunes or Amazon, you can listen to every track on a least 3 music sharing sites, every track [including the bonus tracks] is on YouTube in HD audio, and you can actually download the whole album for free — illegally but it is easy to do.

    Regarding the discussion of expectations for Idol alums — I can’t find a lot of patterns in Idol alums sales. For example, where is the pattern for Idol singles — except that the “Winners” usually have a big hit with their Idol finalist’s “coronation song” [Even Kris’ NoBo hit #11 on the Hot 100.]

    Of the lead album singles from past Idol alums, here is the tally with Hot 100 peak of the 8 Idol debut album first singles that made the Hot 100 top 20:

    #2 Crush David Archuleta debut week Aug. 30, 2008 23 weeks

    #4 It’s Not Over Daughtry 10th week Feb. 10, 2007 29 weeks

    #8 Tattoo Jordin Sparks 12th week Dec. 29, 2007 23 weeks

    #9 Miss Independent Kelly Clarkson 61 10th week Jul. 19, 2003 20 weeks

    #9 Sorry 2004 Ruben Studdard 9th week Feb. 28, 2004 20 weeks

    #13 Wait For You Elliott Yamin 16th week Aug. 18, 2007 30 weeks

    #17 Light On David Cook 17 debut week Oct. 18, 2008 16 weeks (fell to #66 the week after debut)

    #20 Jesus, Take the Wheel Carrie Underwood 48 19th week Mar. 25, 2006 24 weeks

    Not only is there no pattern, but it is amazing who isn’t even on the list.

    Notes: Taylor Hicks did not have a lead album single for his debut album.

    LLWD has not peaked yet. Adam has two lead singles from his album

    FYE being promoted as a dance club track and WWFM which is being promoted on radio and being treated by RCA as the lead album single. WWFM has not peaked on the Billboard Hot 100. FYE has not peaked on the Hot Dance Club chart — Billboard “Power Pick”.

  171. By lead I assume you mean their first single from their first album? Otherwise, I’d say Kelly Clarkson is missing a few monster hits.

  172. lucy
    02/03/2010 at 5:00 pm
    There is still a leap of faith. You can’t tell a song by 30 second…

    Well, I was actually meaning the hearing of two songs in their entirety!

    then having the impression you got from the two entire songs backed up by the 30-second snippets …..

    If it were the snippets alone, then I’d call it faith, too!

    To each their own. It is a leap of faith to me.

  173. Just so I understand….An Idol lives or dies by how well they do in comparison to previous idols or idols that release in the same year. No consideration is given to genre of music, or the social consciousness, or the competition outside of idol. We don’t look at males as having a different audience then females, or idols consolidating themselves into a band sound as compared to an individual singer.

    We don’t look at where the songs are played…having the exit song played on Idol in front of 25,000 fans every week for some 18 weeks isn’t factored into the equation. We don’t look at when singles were released…some idols released their singles during the tour when fan interest was still at an all time high. We don’t look at whether a single was a duet with an established artist who had their own fan base.

    We don’t take into consideration Idol fatigue…or that a current artist tends to remind people of a previous idol. We don’t look at coronation songs that were a “hit” with the general public and allowed the artist to build up some interest prior to their release of an album and we don’t look at Idols who are given some “primo” time as they do pre-Idol commercials when they record breaks.

    Well..I look at these things and that helps me keep everything in perspective when any Idol releases material and helps me to gage how their sales are doing. Every Idol is different. Their own “take” on the industry and their own chosen path makes for differences.

    But then, like others have posted, am going to “see” how peeps are doing several years down the road. If they are still putting out music and touring and winning some awards and making some “bread” then that’s the frosting on the cake. All the rest of the hoopla is for other people to have heartache over.

  174. Well, here’s a random fact

    Mtlfan
    02/03/2010 at 4:31 pm
    Just read that LLWD made the top 40 in Romania this week!

  175. And I think it’s fair to assume RCA has spent a lot more promoting Adam than Jive spent on Archie.

    None of us have any idea about what the promo investment was for Archie or Adam. But I think that the initial investments were probably very similar in terms of total dollars. Jive usually promotes with a strong focus on radio which is extremely costly.

    Most of Adam’s promotion was earned media — Rolling Stone to the recent ET gig — didn’t cost RCA anything. There appeared to be a measured investment in promoting Adam on radio, not a lot of paid online advertising and some coop $ to Walmart, Best Buy and Target.

    The rest of the Adam promotional expense has been the AMA performance, and promo trips to NY, Chicago and Toronto, and 4 Jingle Bell appearances without his band. The biggest expense was prob the 2 music videos — both done in one-day shoots.

    In other words, it looks to me like Adam might have some promo $ that are still unspent — because when you look examine the promotion, only a few activities actually cost RCA money — just Adam’s, Roger’s and Lane’s time.

  176. Just so I understand….An Idol lives or dies by how well they do in comparison to previous idols or idols that release in the same year. No consideration is given to genre of music, or the social consciousness, or the competition outside of idol. We don’t look at males as having a different audience then females, or idols consolidating themselves into a band sound as compared to an individual singer.

    We don’t look at where the songs are played…having the exit song played on Idol in front of 25,000 fans every week for some 18 weeks isn’t factored into the equation. We don’t look at when singles were released…some idols released their singles during the tour when fan interest was still at an all time high. We don’t look at whether a single was a duet with an established artist who had their own fan base.

    We don’t take into consideration Idol fatigue…or that a current artist tends to remind people of a previous idol. We don’t look at coronation songs that were a “hit” with the general public and allowed the artist to build up some interest prior to their release of an album and we don’t look at Idols who are given some “primo” time as they do pre-Idol commercials when they record breaks.

    yes, apparently those are the rules, LOL!

  177. If anyone feels the idols are not selling well, we can compare to Orianthis albums sales. That will make us happy…

  178. With all the talk about declining album sales, it’s interesting to read this:

    http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2010/feb/03/blurt1/

    Each year Pollstar magazine lists the 200 top-grossing concert headliners… American Idol star Chris Daughtry’s band (which includes guitarist Josh Steeley of Carlsbad) grossed $6.8 million (107th place).

    “Surprisingly, 2009 was a record-setting year for concert venues,” says Pollstar publisher Gary Bongiovanni. “More tickets were sold last year than in any year in the past decade.” He says the increase in box-office business is due to the fact that promoters reacted to the bad economy and charged $5 less per ticket, on average.

  179. What are you guys talking about snippets for? You can stream the entire album nowadays and usualy once it’s been streamed all you have to do is look for it on youtube or limewire or a billion other places on the web to re-listen if you want?

    Usually if I hear one song of an artist that I really like the sound of, it’s easy enough for me to youtube the song and lo and behold, there are links to the right of the screen for other songs from that artists — including live performances if I’m so inclined to view them.

    As a business traveler, I also use the plane’s entertainment system and the hours that I am up in the air, to look through the list of albums and play a bunch of them while I’m whiling away the hours on the plane. I usually keep a list in my head of artists who I want to check out and if they are on the plane’s entertainment system, that’s the perfect opportunity to test them out. Now, I’m not the most patient person and I usually skip through a song if it doesn’t sell me within the first minute to minute and a half or so, but that’s my choice. I have the entire album to listen to at my leisure. I just came back from a trip to Asia recently and spent about $50 on new music when I came back because I found a lot of new(ish) music that I really liked. Some artist I bought the entire album because I really liked them and some artists I only downloaded certain songs because their songs tended to be soundalike or they otherwise had a voice/style that I could only take in spurts. (BTW, Kris’, Kelly’s, the Davids’ and Daughtry’s albums were available for preview, though I can’t recall whether Adam’s album was also available.)

  180. I would like to fast forward to when the S9 people release. Perhaps I should talk to the producers of Lost? ;)

  181. I would like to fast forward to when the S9 people release. Perhaps I should talk to the producers of Lost?

    I will help you carry Jughead into the Idoldome….once detonated, we should time travel to November 2010.

  182. What are you guys talking about snippets for? You can stream the entire album nowadays and usualy once it’s been streamed all you have to do is look for it on youtube or limewire or a billion other places on the web to re-listen if you want?

    Exactly! I had the chance to hear the full songs from the albums of Adam, Kris and Allison. A leap of faith is when you bought cds 10-20 years ago. You walked into a record store and looked at the cd or album and decided if you wanted to purchase it. If you were lucky if a friend might have an album you could listen to so you weren’t totally taking a chance.

    He’s trailing David Archuleta in album sales by about 20%.

    So if album sales are down 13%, Adam is selling 7% less than Archie. If you look at chart positions, Adam is doing better in January. He has a single that is steadily climbing so we will have to see if he closes that 7% gap.
    (Did you count the fact that Archie released his album two weeks before Adam did? Is there an extra two weeks of sales counted in?)
    I would say 7% is not a significant percentage, especially considering the timing of the album and the single releases.
    I still think the only way Adam is “underperforming” when you look at the last 3 seasons is if you compare him to Cook.

  183. Looking at what happened with David Archuleta, I think most people would assume that given how well Crush sold that PDs would be falling over themselves to play his second single, but that didn’t happen. The same is true with those from earlier years, given their enormous sales numbers PDs should have jumped at the chance to play their music, but again, it didn’t happen. Program Directors just were not fooled by sales that were more about the singers being on a show, than a true indication that people actually were into the music.

    I disagree with this. David is not an established artist with a proven track record. He is still a new artist. PDs are not going to just play his song no matter what the song is. Crush did well but that doesn’t mean that his second single was going to get automatically played no matter what. There were artists, who came out around that time, whose debut singles did better then Crush and their second singles went nowhere. They weren’t from American Idol. It has nothing to do with PDs thinking that the songs sales had to do with the artist coming from American Idol. I think the fact that Crush is almost double platinum proves that the songs sales came from the song and not because David was on American Idol.

    I don’t know why ALTNOY didn’t do well. I think there could be many factors. One factor is that Jive waited too let to release it. They should have released David’s second single when Crush was peaking. Then another factor is at the last minute they changed the single. I also think the song itself was a factor. I think the song sounds kind of dated. It didn’t fit what pop radio was playing at that time. Right around that time is when the music on pop radio started to shift into dance music.

  184. I don’t think that it is fair to assume that RCA or 19 has spent more $$ promoting Adam.

    I think it’s fair. Jive is notorious for being quite stingy. And nothing about Adam’s rollout has spelled anything other than first class or top notch to me (well, in terms of the personnel involved). And don’t tell me that there is some way that Adam’s two videos somehow costs the same as or less than Archie’s one video for Crush. And last I saw, none of Archie’s appearances ever required him to incur costs for backup dancers, costumes and makeup for said dancers, and probably a couple of days of rehearsal/choreography, etc.

    And good point bringing up Oprah and the AMAs. Archie had none of those HUGE promotional opportunities and yet he’s still at a pace where he’s outsold Adam at the same point in time. And let’s not go into who has had more appearances because (1) if you actually compare them, they are probably quite even and (2) we all know it’s not so much about the number of appearances but the audience size and hype/buzz you get with those appearances.

  185. mimi

    Except FYE was intended for Top 40 radio, not the dance charts. Adam certainly underperformed in that regard.

    IMO US Radio underperformed in that regard — not Adam. FYE is a Top 10 radio song all over the world, just not in the US. FYE is #1 in the Philippines, Top 10 in Taiwan and #1 foreign language song, Top 10 in Canada, Singapore, Finland, NZ, Hong Kong and Iceland. It is getting played on the radio in several other countries. The FYE Brad Walsh remix has not yet been officially released but is being played on the radio in Greece, Italy and Spain. Even in the US, FYE continues to sell on iTunes without any radio or performance support.

    But as far as I can tell, WWFM was the intended Pop single — it was released to radio on 11/18 and for sale on 11/23 [same day as the album]. FYE was getting some meaningful US airplay, but RCA started promoting WWFM to radio on 11/18 [before the AMA performance] — Z100 NY and KIIS-FM LA the 2 US Top 40 leaders, started WWFM before the AMAs. And in a similar shift, over a week before WWFM music video was released, FYE was removed from the VH1 playlist. Looks to me like RCA wanted WWFM to be the first big single — before the AMA performance.

    The only statement I can find on the intent of the two singles is from Adam — in a recent Toronto interview — he said that WWFM was picked at the first single but he wanted to release a “dancier” track first and wanted something more active for the AMA performance. According to Adam, that is why they released FYE first.

    Finally, I for one will not write off FYE. Many songs move up the Hot Dance Club then crossover to the Pop and Hot 100 charts. The most famous recent example is Lady Gaga’s “Just Dance” #2 Hot Dance Airplay and Hot Dance Club Play charts July-August 2008. #1 Hot 100 on 1/8/09.

  186. I disagree with this. David is not an established artist with a proven track record. He is still a new artist. PDs are not going to just play his song no matter what the song is.

    you know it is a complete mystery to me. I would guess the truth lies in between somewhere. I think AI muddies the water. You have a new artist Ke$ha with a #1 hit.. now blah, blah, blah is following up behind and just had huge adds.

  187. The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook. Cook won his season, Adam didn’t.

    I said *I THINK* he is underperforming. That is my perception, there’s no reason to try to counter it with his current stats. Based on the hype and media fascination with him, I thought he’d be doing better at this point. Period. Doesn’t mean things won’t continue to swing upwards for him, doesn’t mean they aren’t now. But you are allowed to think he’s not underperforming, I’m allowed to think he is.

    Just because we use the words “I think” or the phrase “IMO” doesnt mean that no one then can disagree with an opinion. I realize it is all perceptions, but people posts conflicting opinions on this site. Using key phrases does not mean that someone is not going to disagree with you.

    BTW, my perception has absolutely nothing to do with Cook, and since I didn’t mention Cook at any point… I had no intention of bringing him into it.

    It doesn’t matter to me if you mentioned Cook or not. I wanted to use him in my comment. His sales were important in the statement I was making.

  188. Just because we use the words “I think” or the phrase “IMO” doesnt mean that no one then can disagree with an opinion. I realize it is all perceptions, but people posts conflicting opinions on this site. Using key phrases does not mean that someone is not going to disagree with you.

    Don’t feel bad.. I just had to explain my version of having ‘faith’ when I make my purchases LOL.

  189. you know it is a complete mystery to me. I would guess the truth lies in between somewhere. I think AI muddies the water. You have a new artist Ke$ha with a #1 hit.. now blah, blah, blah is following up behind and just had huge adds.

    And as I noted in my post further upthread, you can have an established artist like Pink and have her second and third singles off her third album stall inexplicably on the radio until FINALLY after three months the third single starts to chart. It’s about the song and the timing of the song within what else is in the Top 40 at the time and I suspect it has very little to do with AI. Why the hell should PDs give a damn?

  190. The only statement I can find on the intent of the two singles is from Adam — in a recent Toronto interview — he said that WWFM was picked at the first single but he wanted to release a “dancier” track first and wanted something more active for the AMA performance. According to Adam, that is why they released FYE first.

    He said that? Huh, well that basically corroborates a discussion I had with a record ind. executive that I posted about earlier this week (I think the thread was pretty well dead by the time I posted, I’ll bring it over if I can find it.) Makes sense.

  191. Notes: Taylor Hicks did not have a lead album single for his debut album.

    Actually, he did have a lead single (“Just To Feel That Way”), it wasn’t released until two months after his album dropped. By that time, his album was pretty much off the Billboard 200 (or hanging on for dear life).

    As far as the singles vs. albums debate-the labels just want to make money. If their artist is making them money through single sales, they’re happy. If their artist is making them money through album sales, they’re happy. If their artist is making money buy selling albums and singles hand over fist, they’re even happier. I would bet my last dollar that in spite of the anemic sales for their current albums, neither Jordin or Kris are in any danger of being dropped by Jive. In the case of Kris, his lead single is a success and will likely sell at least platinum. Who knows how it will sell beyond that. Jive isn’t going to kick him to the curb anytime soon, and IMO that’s more important than whether or not he sells more albums/singles than Adam Lambert. I’ll go ahead and predict that Kris will get to record album #2 with Jive. If he were with RCA I don’t know if I’d feel quite as confident, but I still think he would stand a good chance of keeping his deal with a platinum hit single in his back pocket. I’m a bit more concerned about Allison’s standing at this point, but her youth and potential might help her in that regard.

    Adam’s album sales have been OK. Given the hype and expectation level, I would say his sales (both album and singles) have been rather underwhelming so far. Even with the decline in album sales, I would have expected him to have sold platinum (or at least close to Archie’s sales total) at this point. The only thing one can hang their hat on is that his album has outsold the winner’s, but he’s hardly pulling a “Daughtry” to Kris’s “Taylor Hicks”. The good news is that he has a hit on his hands with WWFM which could keep his album selling at a consistent level. At the rate it is selling, it will probably take FYE (the album) as long to sell platinum (if it reaches that milestone) as it will take Kris’s album to sell Gold (if it ever does). I do think that based on the success of WWFM, RCA will be a bit more patient with Adam than they have with past RCA idols that were subsequently dropped.

  192. His sales were important in the statement I was making.

    Your statement that the only way I could have come to or justified my opinion was comparing his sales to Cook? Because that’s not how I came to my opinion, at all.

  193. Don’t feel bad.. I just had to explain my version of having ‘faith’ when I make my purchases LOL.

    There’s disagreeing, and there’s bludgeoning. I don’t mind disagreement, I get testy when I get bludgeoned, lol.

  194. Regarding record buying being a leap of faith – it is still a leap of faith to buy a whole album, especially if you aren’t computer savvy (those people do exist) or you don’t know that you can find whole albums to listen to. And besides, it’s cheaper to buy a single than an album, and when budgets get tight (which mine usually is) I have to LOVE almost every song on the album to buy it, if not I’ll just buy a couple singles. I doubt I’m alone in that, really.

  195. Hot 100

    LW-TW-Title-Artist
    26-23 Live Like We’re Dying – Kris Allen
    33-30 Already Gone – Kelly Clarkson
    37-35 Whataya Want From Me – Adam Lambert
    57-51 Life After You – Daughtry
    55-61 Cowboy Casanova – Carrie Underwood
    82-70 Temporary Home – Carrie Underwood
    **-98 Let It Be – Jennifer Hudson Feat. The Roots

  196. I have to LOVE almost every song on the album to buy it, if not I’ll just buy a couple singles. I doubt I’m alone in that, really.

    You are not alone. I was wracking my brain to remember the last non-childrens, non-greatest hits, non classic rock replacing vinyl or tape cd I had purchased prior to FYE and I think it very well may have been madonna’s ray of light. that was a loooooooooooooong time ago….but I download singles like candy and have a really eclectic music collection

  197. tierbee
    02/03/2010 at 6:36 pm
    Regarding record buying being a leap of faith – it is still a leap of faith to buy a whole album, especially if you aren’t computer savvy (those people do exist) or you don’t know that you can find whole albums to listen to. And besides, it’s cheaper to buy a single than an album, and when budgets get tight (which mine usually is) I have to LOVE almost every song on the album to buy it, if not I’ll just buy a couple singles. I doubt I’m alone in that, really.

    I think sometimes we forget that $10 can be a whole lot of money to some people. I have relatives that live in a small town in Utah – $10 bucks goes a long way for them & splurging $50 on clothes at Walmart for the beginning of school takes a big dent in the paycheck. I suspect they are not the only ones who live in this reality.

  198. Your statement that the only way I could have come to or justified my opinion was comparing his sales to Cook? Because that’s not how I came to my opinion, at all.

    No, my ENTIRE post that you replied to is below. Where did I say that “the only way you could come to your conclusion is by comparing Adam to Cook”. Once again, as you stated, it’s all about perceptions. My opinion is that Adam is only underperforming if you compare him to Cook.

    My entire post:

    “Adam is staying in the top 40 on the album sales charts. He has comparable numbers to both Jordin and Archie. His WWFM sales are actually better than LLWD were at week 10. FYE is continuing to sell both here and internationally and is climbing the dance charts.
    The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook. Cook won his season, Adam didn’t.”

  199. Keel
    02/03/2010 at 6:16 pm

    I don’t think that it is fair to assume that RCA or 19 has spent more $$ promoting Adam.

    I think it’s fair. Jive is notorious for being quite stingy. And nothing about Adam’s rollout has spelled anything other than first class or top notch to me. And don’t tell me that there is some way that Adam’s two videos somehow costs the same as or less than Archie’s one video for Crush. And last I saw, none of Archie’s appearances ever required him to incur costs for backup dancers, costumes and makeup for said dancers, and probably a couple of days of rehearsal/choreography, etc.

    Jive is notorious for spending a ton of money on radio promo and online advertising — they have a very basic, but not cheap formula. They also released Archie’s album 11 countries outside of North America — real releases, with versions and promotion — that is not cheap.

    No denying that Adam’s 2 music videos cost more than Archie’s one MV. But that is one of the places that they have spent money on Adam. But My bet is that Jive spent a lot more on radio promo for Archie than you can imagine — probably more than the cost of Adam’s FYE Music Video.

    No denying that Adam has had a lot of great promotional opportunties — maybe not as much as some winners like Cook, but more than any other no winner. But RCA did not buy those oppotunities for either Cook or Adam — they both earned them by who they were are performers and artists.

    That said — Archie has done great selling album and he is getting to do a third major label album. A huge thing for someone as young as Archie. Archie has a long career ahead of him and hopefully that career can be judged by something other than an Idol yardstick!

  200. Huh, well that basically corroborates a discussion I had with a record ind. executive that I posted about earlier this week (I think the thread was pretty well dead by the time I posted, I’ll bring it over if I can find it.) Makes sense.

    mmb: Please do!

    And good point bringing up Oprah and the AMAs. Archie had none of those HUGE promotional opportunities and yet he’s still at a pace where he’s outsold Adam at the same point in time

    Archie did perform at several Jingle Bell Balls. He also sang at The Macy’s Day Parade. (Any other holiday events he sang at?)

    David also appeared on The Hannah Montana Show and toured with Demi Lovato. I’m thinking those two things alone exposed cutie-pie Archie to tweenie heaven. It does seem that the tween and country market does a better job at actually buying albums, instead of stealing music.

  201. where did RCA spend all of this supposed extra money on Adam promo?

    Well, it’s true no one knows what has been spent on any of the AI alum. Off the top of my head, Adam’s had two expensive videos. There is the wardrobe (pretty sure Archie never had a $1,500 glove). And all those media opportunites don’t just happen, they take take staff time to pitch, negociate, schedule, conduct, follow up on – all of which is charged back to the artist’s account. IIRC Adam had a more expensive slate of song writers and producers working on his record as well. Plus, generally speaking Jive has a reputation for keeping it’s costs low while RCA does not. So it seems like a pretty reasonable assumption to me. YMMV of course.

  202. This is my prior post (from Monday) I was referring to (MJ sorry if improper to bring over — delete at will):

    Re: the FYE/WWFM discussion, I had a conversation at dinner last night with a senior record company exec (not affiliated with sony/rca/jive) that might shed some light on the issue. I will caveat this to the hilt by saying that the discussion was with the husband of a client, I do not know the husband well, do not know if he is reliable and he does not work for a sony affiliated company. All he could share was his own opinions, what he had heard in the industry and through his own contacts who were involved with Adam’s album. we started discussing the issue bc we heard wwfm on the taxi radio. So i asked what he thought about adam and also about fye/wwfm. He said that he had heard that adams team was having trouble deciding on the first single from several candidates; that they settled on wwfm and it was vetted thru several key program directors; the opportunity arose to close the amas with a big production number; didn’t think wwfm would work in that situation; so decided to do fye, which was the title of the album as well; a lot of eyebrows were raised because question as to whether this was the best first single choice bc of subject matter, danciness etc. but he agreed that wwfm would not have been good for amas; he thinks they put fye out there with a limited, but not a big, radio push, mostly to see what the reaction would be and to have some public familiarity before the amas and bc the title was the same as the album; z100 wouldn’t play it; when z100 refused, they immediately stopped radio efforts wrt fye and moved to wwfm which they knew z100 would play; z100 is critical bc they are very friendly to kids coming off idol. this is extreme paraphrasing, but you get the gist of it. He thinks FYE will do well as a dance track and abroad. He also said a bunch of other interesting things that I won’t get into here. Again, I have NO IDEA if this guy is reliable, and he has no first hand knowledge. This was just what he understood/had heard from his position in the industry.

    This seems to be consistent with what Q3 posted that Adam said in the interview re the whole FYE/WWFM thing, so maybe it is the truth. Who knows.

  203. These numbers (for singles) are posted on another blog: FYE is interesting.

    ALLEN*KRIS LIVE LIKE WE’RE DYING

    Week 1: 15,755 (three days of sales)
    Week 2: 23,552 (+49%, 39,307 total)
    Week 3: 13,476 (-43%, 52,783 total)
    Week 4: 9,980 (-23%, 62,763 total)
    Week 5: 10,190 (+2%, 72,953 total)
    Week 6: 10,444 (+3%, 83,397 total)
    Week 7: 14,754 (+41%, 98,151 total)
    Week 8: 21,402 (+45%, 119,553 total)
    Week 9: 35,787 (+67%, 155,340 total)
    Week 10: 31,327 (-12%, 186,667 total)
    Week 11: 27,641 (-12%, 214,308 total)
    Week 12: 35,553 (+29%, 249,861 total)
    Week 13: 40,355 (+14%, 290,216 total)
    Week 14: 109,200 (+171%, 399,416 total)
    Week 15: 86,824 (-20%, 486,240 total)
    Week 16: 64,667 (-26%, 550,907 total)
    Week 17: 69,155 (+7%, 620,062 total)
    Week 18: 65,325 (685,377 total)
    Week 19: 63,329 (748,716)

    WWFM
    Week 1: 11,197 (11,871 total)
    Week 2: 9,372 (-16%, 21,243 total)
    Week 3: 10,178 (+9%, 31,421 total)
    Week 4: 20,207 (+99%, 51,628 total)
    Week 5: 45,843 (+127%, 94,471 total)
    Week 6: 38,422 (-16%, 135,893 total)
    Week 7: 32,801 (-15%, 168,694 total)
    Week 8: 37,430 (+14%, 206,124 total)
    Week 9: 59,421 (+59%, 265,545 total)
    Week 10: 58,433 (-2%, 323,978 total)

    FYE (single):
    Week 1: 18,397
    Week 2: 26,065 (44,462 total)
    Week 3: 19,465 (63,927 total)
    Week 4: 38,509 (102,436 total)
    Week 5: 14,000 (116,436 total)
    Week 5: 13,000 (129,436 total)
    Week 6: 15,169 (144,605 total)
    Week 7: 29,605 (174,210 total)
    Week 8: 20,000 (194,210 total)
    Week 9: 13,000 (207,210 total)
    Week 10: 12,000 (219,210 total

  204. So if album sales are down 13%, Adam is selling 7% less than Archie. If you look at chart positions, Adam is doing better in January. He has a single that is steadily climbing so we will have to see if he closes that 7% gap.

    If you adjust for the overall decline in record sales, it’s a difference of just under 10%, actually.

    (Did you count the fact that Archie released his album two weeks before Adam did? Is there an extra two weeks of sales counted in?)

    Yes, I’m looking at it from time since release date, not same calendar dates.

    As I said in my original post, I expect that at some point FYE will pass DATR in album sales if Adam has a successful next single. Which I am guessing he will.

  205. tierbee
    02/03/2010 at 6:36 pm
    Regarding record buying being a leap of faith – it is still a leap of faith to buy a whole album, especially if you aren’t computer savvy (those people do exist) or you don’t know that you can find whole albums to listen to. And besides, it’s cheaper to buy a single than an album, and when budgets get tight (which mine usually is) I have to LOVE almost every song on the album to buy it, if not I’ll just buy a couple singles. I doubt I’m alone in that, really.

    In the US everyone who buys a single has internet access.

    With the exception of two genres — Urban music and Country music — 94% of people who purchased a music CD in the last 12 months have internet access at home.

    More than 80% of Americans now have a computer in their homes, and of those, almost 92% have internet access, according to a detailed study on home internet access from The Nielsen Company, which reports that this number is up from 77.9% one year earlier.
    Source: Nielsen

    Key findings of the Nielsen study:

    – Internet access is correlated with education level and a household’s combined annual income. As these factors increase, so does the likelihood of internet access.

    – Internet access is lowest in Hispanic and African-American households, as well as those where the head of household has not completed high school.

    – Access is much lower in rural areas and in homes that receive only broadcast TV.

    Other related info…..

    Music buyers tend to be educated, have middle to high incomes and are online.

    Over 50% of music buyers reported that their primary source for information about and listenign to new music is the internet, now higher than broadcast radio. [source Radio Broadcasters Association study 11/2009].

    In other word, most [over 50%] people listen to music online before they buy.

  206. Jive is notorious for spending a ton of money on radio promo and online advertising — they have a very basic, but not cheap formula. They also released Archie’s album 11 countries outside of North America — real releases, with versions and promotion — that is not cheap.

    That is the exact opposite of what I heard about Jive. Yes, they do radio promo but it doesn’t cost THAT much. Not to mention that Archie started doing his radio promo while he was on the AI tour, so he hit a lot of stations as he was traveling through the country. Also, since we only have domestic US sales numbers and Adam is lagging Archie in that area, it doesn’t matter about the 11-country release vis-a-vis the amount of $$ both are making for their labels in the US. Also, did they release Archie’s albums to those 11 countries right away, or is it similar to Adam’s where it’s delayed in some countries? If so, then you’d have to count the cost of Adam’s release in other countries as well. It seems counterintuitive to think that RCA would release Adam in fewer countries than Archie given the predictions that Adam will have broader appeal in the international market versus perhaps in his own country.

    No denying that Adam’s 2 music videos cost more than Archie’s one MV. But that is one of the places that they have spent money on Adam. But My bet is that Jive spent a lot more on radio promo for Archie than you can imagine — probably more than the cost of Adam’s FYE Music Video.

    Again, where do you get this information that Jive spent a lot of money on radio promo for Archie? Everything I’ve heard about Jive from the Archie fans themselves is that Jive really holds on very tightly to their $$ (which was a plus to Archie fans at the beginning and became a source of griping when no third single was forthcoming). And how can radio promo (which Adam also did) cost more than a pretty involved MV for FYE. Also, was there no online advertising for Adam at all? I know I saw some TV ads and I can’t imagine that RCA wouldn’t have done online advertising for Adam.

    Bottom line is that Jive’s reputation is that of being tightwads whereas RCA’s is the reverse. IIRC, Archie even had to replace members of his band due to the fact that they were expensive and had to choose musicians who cost a lot less.

  207. Q3 can you post the link to the report if you have it. I love to speculate about the future of the music industry as much as actually listening to music. I feel we are in for a huge change over the next 10 years.

  208. Your Archie Adam comparison is very interesting Q3. I wonder why RCA wouldn’t spend a lot of money on Adam. Maybe they didn’t think Adam could deliver? Maybe they didn’t believe in Adam as much as we were led to believe they did?

  209. Just to remind everyone Archie had 2 MV. One for Crush and one for his second single.

  210. WWFM
    Week 10: 58,433 (-2%, 323,978 total)

    FYE (single):
    Week 10: 12,000 (219,210 total

    Apropos of nothing, I think it’s kind of hilarious that FYE, with just about zero radio play, still managed to sell about two-thirds as much as WWFM, with a lot of play, in a ten-week period. Clearly a cult favorite of some kind, I guess.

  211. Yes, I’m looking at it from time since release date, not same calendar dates.

    Thank you for answering my question. I knew that Archie had two more weeks before Christmas so I wanted to make sure we were making an even comparison. (if there is such a thing :) )

    If the difference is indeed 10%, I still consider that comparable. I do not think David had disappointing sales and I do not think Adam’s sales are disappointing either.
    It doesn’t bother me AT ALL that Adam is selling in the same ball park as Jordin and Archie. I consider them both to be talented singers and performers who are still getting plenty of opportunities.

  212. lucy.. I kinda wonder if it has a lot to do with the song being used in advertising, it wouldn’t surprise me. We all know there are different ways to get songs out there other than just the radio. Sort of like the bump Kris saw with that song of his used during the Ford commercial on AI.

  213. I think it’s kind of hilarious that FYE, with just about zero radio play, still managed to sell about two-thirds as much as WWFM, with a lot of play, in a ten-week period

    ITA. Don’t count FYE totally out!

    Even more interesting:
    LLWD:
    Week 10: 31,327 (-12%, 186,667 total)

    FYE:
    Week 10: 12,000 (219,210 total)

  214. There is the wardrobe (pretty sure Archie never had a $1,500 glove).

    Shows aside, I’m not sure that the label is paying for clothes. I suspect that’s all Adam, and he recycles tons of his clothes. So there’s that as well. Not to mention getting stuff and only having to worry about taking taxes on it from some swag type place

    I’m not commenting on the rest of expenses, because a.) I don’t care b.) the actual facts that I’ve seen are few and far between, and I don’t know or a.) enough to speculate. Or care about the speculation of others, frankly. I only commented on the clothes because it interests me. I blame the new season of PR (which is amazingly enough, back to not sucking) for that.

  215. The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook. Cook won his season, Adam didn’t.”

    Well technically, you could say he is “underperforming” by comparing him to Clay, Carrie, Daughtry, Kelly, Reuben, Fanny, and Cook. LOL. I don’t think that is a Cook vs Adam thing, I think that is a “popular idol coming off the show” thing. Some of them had songs on the radio at the time of release, some didn’t… some had big promo pushes, some didn’t…. some won, some didn’t. But they all sold at/near the top of the market through the holidays, which Adam did not.

    But I don’t think anyone can say he’s underperformed yet, because there are some hopeful signs for the future. He may still get that big hit with WWFM and follow it up with more… his album certainly has songs with that kind of potential. And he should have a really high market awareness right now. With the right song he should really take off. The game’s not over yet.

    I don’t even get the comparison with Archie… dude did the Idol talk show trail and an AOL session. That’s all he had at this point. Adam has that, Oprah, closing the AMAs ,the cover of Rolling Stone, a major scandal that got him on the freaking nightly news every day the week his album released.. which happened to be the biggest shopping week of the year… I mean, come on. LOL. Adam got A LOT more promo than Archie. That’s just crazy talk.

    Still, I do think everyone finds their own way in the music business. Adam will find his. Comparing Idols gives us something to do and its fun (to me) but its not like anybody’s label cares, they just want to make a profit. He can still make them a profit. I would guess he probably will. At this point is not so much about the idol thing anymore, to me, its about finding a place in the industry. Which I think Adam’s well on his way to doing.

  216. mmb….thank you for bringing your Monday post over – I missed the original. Very interesting..and his explaination of FYE/WWFM releases in relation to the AMA gig sounds perfectly logical.

    But this – “He also said a bunch of other interesting things that I won’t get into here.” – has really piqued my interest! Any chance you will be elaborating??

  217. I’m not sure that the label is paying for clothes. I suspect that’s all Adam,

    *Puts on green eye shades* Typically all personal expenses directly related to a provision of services (like performing) would be charged to the business for tax reasons. It would be pretty unusual if Adam’s professional wardrobe wasnt coming out of a corporate account. Having said that, he would have to pay that back through the recoupment process, assuming he selling enough records to do so.

    I only commented on the clothes because it interests me. I blame the new season of PR (which is amazingly enough, back to not sucking) for that.

    Yay for a new Project Runway Season that doesn’t suck! Maybe that will carry over to AI? Naw……

  218. Talking about spending money on Adam videos..I feel he will have 3 more videos this year…2 for songs off of FYE, and 1 for Suburban Decay when it is the lead single on Twilight Eclipse soundtrack… :)

  219. I do not think Adam’s sales are disappointing either.

    Just to be clear (and then I’ll drop it, really!), I didn’t say they were disaapointing. I said they were lagging Archie’s. Which they are. So far. Again, I’d be surprised if that doesn’t change eventually.

  220. Wonder how far Singers go in the hole to the record company when they only sell 100,000 albums total….lots and lots of them out there and lots and lots of them with tons of promo and videos and stuff.

    And, ya know, to be honest if a Singer has to recoup expenses why in the hell does anyone care what someone spent. It just means the Artist is also cheap if they don’t go all out to promote themselves and their work.

  221. Does anyone know what the sales for FYE the single was this week? I think someone mentioned it was around 10K but I could be wrong. Thank you.

  222. Typically all personal expenses directly related to a provision of services (like performing) would be charged to the business for tax reasons. It would be pretty unusual if Adam’s professional wardrobe wasnt coming out of a corporate account. Having said that, he would have to pay that back through the recoupment process, assuming he selling enough records to do so.

    Which is why I said, besides performing, that I don’t think that the label is picking up Adam’s tab on red carpet stuff, interviews, etc., not really strictly speaking performing, so not sure that Adam wouldn’t just be paying for it upfront. Which is probably why he recycles so much of his wardrobe.

    Yay for a new Project Runway Season that doesn’t suck! Maybe that will carry over to AI? Naw……

    Doesn’t seem to have thus far. But the season is very young, maybe it won’t suck later?

  223. lucy.. I kinda wonder if it has a lot to do with the song being used in advertising, it wouldn’t surprise me.

    Yeah, good point. Ads. Interesting off-beat video. … Definitely different ways of getting exposure.

  224. Just to remind everyone Archie had 2 MV. One for Crush and one for his second single.

    Yes, but when Adam releases the single after WWFM, RCA will have to pay for a third MV, whereas when Archie released his second single, Jive was only on the hook for the second MV. We’re just talking about what’s been spent (that we know of) at this stage in the game.

  225. The only way Adam is “underperforming” is if you compare him to Cook. Cook won his season, Adam didn’t.”

    Well technically, you could say he is “underperforming” by comparing him to Clay, Carrie, Daughtry, Kelly, Reuben, Fanny, and Cook

    Well technically, you could say Cook underperformed compared to Clay, Kelly, Daughtry, Reuben, and Carrie. LOL
    I was making comparisons to the last three seasons. If you go and find my next post you will see that.
    I was comparing numbers to Jordin and Archie. That’s how it all started.

    I don’t even get the comparison with Archie… dude did the Idol talk show trail and an AOL session. That’s all he had at this point.

    Archie released “Crush” at the end of the tour. It was a huge hit and I assume his mv was out way before his album. From what I remember, the mv stayed at the top of VH1 for a very long time. He performed at Jingle Bell Balls. He sang in the Macy’s Day Parade. He had a televised NYE performance.
    I believe David’s total sales are around 700,000 now. (Is this correct?) I imagine his Hannah Montana Show appearance and tour with Demi Lovato persuaded a few tweens to purchase his album. The tween market seems to be a pretty good one to tap into.

    a major scandal that got him on the freaking nightly news every day the week his album released.. which happened to be the biggest shopping week of the year… I mean, come on.

    So, are you saying that the AMA scandal helped to sell a lot of albums? If so-it didn’t turn out to be a bad decision after all, did it?

  226. Archie was really quite overshadowed by Cook last year with lots of negative media. His album got some bad reviews and lots of Idol insiders thought he’d flop. Adam has had great media support. I even thought I saw him on the cover of Rolling Stone.

  227. Archie’s album sales are currently around 826,500. As far as radio play, I never one time heard any of his songs (crush, zero gravity, altnoy, or christmas songs) played on any San Francisco Bay Area station. I wish they had released “Your Eyes Don’t Lie” or “Desperate” which were my two favorites from the cd. If you haven’t heard those, take a listen (or look on youtube).

  228. I think that OTT promo hurt more than his ridiculous AMA performance.

    jpfan-we agree! Miracles never cease. lol I think that is why they are pulling back a little on bigger things. I think they want the hype to catch up with him. I think he is awesome but I also think he needs a big hit for the criticism to calm down. GAGA was criticized alot in the beginning (not that I am saying he will be as big as GAGA).

  229. Well technically, you could say Cook underperformed compared to Clay, Kelly, Daughtry, Reuben, and Carrie. LOL

    Yup. You sure could!

    I was comparing numbers to Jordin and Archie. That’s how it all started.

    Yeah, I know. I was just saying reframing the “underperforming” thing, trying to say that limiting it to JUST a Cook comparison misses the point. Adam broke with one of the few idol album trends that has been in place over the course of the show for a hyped, popular alum, not just the last 3 seasons.

    Archie released “Crush” at the end of the tour. It was a huge hit and I assume his mv was out way before his album. From what I remember, the mv stayed at the top of VH1 for a very long time. He performed at Jingle Bell Balls. He sang in the Macy’s Day Parade. He had a televised NYE performance.

    And none of that is unusual for an idol promo wise. What Archie had that some others didn’t was a hit record. But he was not heavily promo-ed for an idol, he was not pushed to radio an unusual amount for Jive. The song just caught on.

    I believe David’s total sales are around 700,000 now. (Is this correct?) I imagine his Hannah Montana Show appearance and tour with Demi Lovato persuaded a few tweens to purchase his album.

    Those didn’t happen until the summer, and I don’t think they mattered a whole hell of a lot anyway as far as his album sales. The bulk of his sales happened between November and March or so.

    So, are you saying that the AMA scandal helped to sell a lot of albums? If so-it didn’t turn out to be a bad decision after all, did it?

    Actually, I’m not. I’m saying it should have, given that’s the way these things usually work, but that is not what happened here. That kind of thing is part of the reason Adam gets the “underperforming” label so often IMO. He’s been on Oprah, the AMAs, the cover of Rolling Stone, hand a media generating scandal that went on for weeks, crazy buzz/hype, press up the wazoo… yet he has not broken gold with his album or single, and he has not stayed in the top 20 of album sales consistently. Past folks coming off that show have been able to pull that off with less radio, hype and/or press. That’s the point.

    Still, I will emphasize once more, I don’t think Adam is doomed or anything. I think he’s done well for himself, just not up to the level “hot” Idols usually perform. So if you put the usual phase one sales performance of an Idol at 10, Adam’s probably doing maybe a 7? And the label would be okay with anything higher than 5, as long as the potential to make more money exists. LOL. Personally I think it will click for him a little later in his cycle and that he will eventually take off… either here, overseas, or both. And he will present a new model of post-Idol success like they all eventually do, because they all form their own path. I just disagree with the characterization that somehow he’s not doing less that what one would normally expect from someone whose worked with the caliber of talent he has, had this kind of buzz, and the killer promo opportunities he has had, was talked up as a destined megastar, etc. That’s not happening yet in any way shape or form, and people are not illogical to say so, I think.

  230. Well technically, you could say Cook underperformed compared to Clay, Kelly, Daughtry, Reuben, and Carrie. LOL

    Well, you should at least leave Ruben out of that list. Once you have adjusted for the general drop in album sales, Cook is likely doing better than Ruben. I don’t have the percentage change figures from year to year, but David Cook’s ~1.3 million albums sold would be the equivalent of ~2.3 million in 2000 (there is a 45% drop from 2000 to 2008, David Cook’s year, not accounting for any further drop in 2009), so perhaps he might have sold >1.8 million in 2003/2004 which is more than Ruben’s first album.

  231. Archie’s album sales are currently around 826,500.

    Thanks for posting David’s estimated global sales.

    It motivated me to look up Adam’s (539,500) and
    Kris’s (255,500). It will be interesting to see if Kris’s goes up with his visit to the Philippines.

  232. Kirsten:

    Did you notice that the Top 40 station in Vancouver (CFBT) added LLWD today? Also, the Top 40 Clear Channel station in Seattle (KBKS) started spinning LLWD yesterday. They only do auto-adds; four spins so far today. Better late than never, I guess!

  233. Archie released “Crush” at the end of the tour. It was a huge hit and I assume his mv was out way before his album. From what I remember, the mv stayed at the top of VH1 for a very long time. He performed at Jingle Bell Balls. He sang in the Macy’s Day Parade. He had a televised NYE performance.

    And none of that is unusual for an idol promo wise. What Archie had that some others didn’t was a hit record. But he was not heavily promo-ed for an idol, he was not pushed to radio an unusual amount for Jive. The song just caught on

    Well, it’s four things that Adam didn’t have. They all have different advantages and opportunities. It all comes down to how well they pay off.

    I believe David’s total sales are around 700,000 now. (Is this correct?) I imagine his Hannah Montana Show appearance and tour with Demi Lovato persuaded a few tweens to purchase his album.

    Those didn’t happen until the summer, and I don’t think they mattered a whole hell of a lot anyway as far as his album sales. The bulk of his sales happened between November and March or so.

    And that’s why I used the word “now” and referred to Archie’s total sales. These two things helped get him to his total at this time. The “Disney connection” has the potential to help move some units.

    and he has not stayed in the top 20 of album sales consistently. Past folks coming off that show have been able to pull that off with less radio, hype and/or press. That’s the point

    Adam has consistently stayed in the top 40 since his album release. That is better than Archie was doing at this point and Adam’s sales and chart position are practically exactly the same at the same point. I can’t even compare sales and chart position to Kris or Blake since they are nowhere close to Adam’s album numbers.
    I don’t consider Adam to be “underperforming” when you compare him to the idols from the last three seasons. EXCEPT for Cook! Cook won, Adam didn’t.

  234. Archie was really quite overshadowed by Cook last year with lots of negative media. His album got some bad reviews and lots of Idol insiders thought he’d flop. Adam has had great media support.

    I never heard one word of it. I saw him on the Macy’s Day Parade and on The Hannah Montana Show. I bought his cd for my daughter for Christmas and I heard his single on the radio. I thought he had grown-up some and gained some confidence when I saw him on the new season of AI. That’s it! If you are living outside the bubble, you don’t know what’s going on with sales totals and album reviews.

    My mom liked Adam, Danny and Michael last season. She heard about the AMAs on some talk show and saw the pictures. She also watched Oprah with SuBo and Adam. She also saw the “look alike” segment on AI. That’s it! Other than that, she has no idea what is happening with sales or media.

    I think we forget sometimes that most people and even fans don’t see all this information. They don’t know about the magazines, interviews or sales numbers. They aren’t reading information on all these idols.

  235. tiger92:

    Okay, I’m confused. What are we taking about here? I am arguing that Adam’s performance up to now at this point in his cycle (roughly a month past the christmas sales period) could logically be characterized as “underperforming” given past sales patterns of popular contestants over the life of the show, especially when you consider the circumstances of Adam’s album recording and release. The 20,000 or so albums Archie sold over the summer as a result of Hannah Montana or touring with Demi are not material to the point. I was also arguing that it makes no sense to only compare Adam to the last 3 seasons in that regard because the pattern we are talking about (selling at the top of the chart during christmas) extends way before that and it is not limited to winners or people with a hit single out. I get that you only want to talk about the last 3 seasons but you are not telling me WHY that’s a good idea, you just keep repeating it as if I don’t understand what you are doing. LOL. I get what you are doing, it just doesn’t make sense to me. You also seem bent on making direct Archie comparisons even though that’s not really what I’m talking about, plus Archie DID do what I am saying…he sold very well through Christmas and went on to find a way to stay in the game after that. So how is Adam the same? He spent Christmas mostly in the 30s, right? Maybe Jordin did too? Is that your point? Well she was considered underperforming at the time as well. But she went on to do very well for herself, which is what I’ve already said several times is what I think will happen with Adam. In any case, I feel like you are making some random points that have nothing to do with my particular argument. Perhaps I’m not being clear? What am I missing here? No, I am not trying to be snarky, I promise.

  236. EXCEPT for Cook! Cook won, Adam didn’t.

    The fact that Cook won and Adam didn’t really doesn’t matter IMO. That hasn’t stopped Adam from getting the kind of primo promotional gigs that most runners-up don’t get (like an Oprah gig or a closing performance spot on the AMAs, for example).

  237. All I know is Adam is going to have an official gold album next week, which is a pretty damn fine piece of business for any recording artist in this day and age.

  238. Kris’ album is now #37 on iTunes. Maybe they should have lowered the price before this? And/or sprung for some banners? Because something seems to have kicked in here. I know it’s not a huge number in actual copies sold, but going from what — #108 yesterday to #37 today is still a huge jump.

    Adam’s album is at #91/#219

    LLWD is at #23
    WWFM is at #31

  239. Kris’ album is now #37 on iTunes. Maybe they should have lowered the price before this? And/or sprung for some banners? Because something seems to have kicked in here.

    This IS very nice to see although it’s not huge numbers. I just checked and it’s at #36.

  240. tinawina:

    The reason why I was comparing the last three seasons is due to the change in album sales numbers as a whole. What were Taylor’s and Katherine’s sales numbers and chart positions at 10 weeks post album release? (I have no idea) Then take those numbers and adjust down for the general drop in album sales.
    The further you go back, the viewers seemed to be more interested in the idols past the AI season. I think AI is experiencing viewer and buyer burnout. This has been discussed many, many times on this site and I tend to agree.
    I was making comparisons with Archie and Jordin because other posters brought them up as having done better than Adam. Therefore, a comparison about Adam and Archie has been discussed.

    You think Adam is underperforming and that is fine. I do not think he is underperforming at all! I think he is doing very well!
    Adam’s album is outselling the AI winner by 2 to 1. FYE is gold in both the US and Canada. The album has consistently stayed in the top 40.
    WWFM is moving up the charts and gaining spins. The single FYE is on the dance charts and is still selling. WWFM is doing very well at 10 weeks in total sales. Both mvs have sold well and WWFM was #1 last week at VH1. WWFM and FYE are showing up on international charts.

    Adam is selling albums and singles. I am happy with the progress thusfar.

  241. All I know is Adam is going to have an official gold album next week, which is a pretty damn fine piece of business for any recording artist in this day and age.

    ITA- I know people keep thinking that Adam should do better because he was popular on AI, but was he really? He lost, supposedly in a landslide, to Kris. The media loved Adam, but obviously not the AI TV audience. If you didn’t watch AI, how much would Adam be on your radar? Probably not a lot. So if the AI viewing audience didn’t love him, that certainly cuts into sales.

    Yes, Kris won, but it doesn’t seem like the AI audience fell in love with him, they just preferred him for idol title to Adam for a variety of reasons. I do think that’s one reason NOBO didn’t do that well. People really didn’t want the single as a souvenir. Not having a popular coronation single really hurt Kris’s sales.

    So for me, Kris and Adam don’t seem to have the usual relationship with AI audiences. Strange year.

    Kris’ album is now #37 on iTunes. Maybe they should have lowered the price before this?

    So I guess it’s that leap of faith thing. For $7.99 people are willing to take the leap and buy the whole album. :)

  242. Kris’ album is now #37 on iTunes. Maybe they should have lowered the price before this? And/or sprung for some banners? Because something seems to have kicked in here. I know it’s not a huge number in actual copies sold, but going from what — #108 yesterday to #37 today is still a huge jump.

    Adam’s album is at #91/#219

    LLWD is at #23
    WWFM is at #31″

    Thanks for the update again Girlygirl. That’s terrific – even if its not that many sales its still an amazing jump & good to know KA is still consistently selling!!
    Great that LLWD &WWFM are still hanging in there!!

  243. ITA- I know people keep thinking that Adam should do better because he was popular on AI, but was he really? He lost, supposedly in a landslide, to Kris. The media loved Adam, but obviously not the AI TV audience. If you didn’t watch AI, how much would Adam be on your radar? Probably not a lot

    Yeah – this is something I can’t help but think of too – not only did he lose, but he’s one of the very few openly gay pop musicians out there today. And this is America. And there is still a LOT of bias from people, even if they only subconsciously do it. I know I for one still hear people put up a wall when I mention Adam – as in, oh, yeah, the gay guy, right? For some it just creates a really unfair barrier when it comes to fully accepting him.

    So, yeah – all things considered, I’d say he’s doing pretty fantastically well :-)

    And re Kris’s album – a bunch of them seem to be going for $7.99, and I thought Adam’s was as well, so why the big jump just for Kris’s?

  244. Okay tiger, I get you now. So the difference is you are using the actual sales number as a basis, and I am using chart positions. Gotcha. The irony here is that I started using chart positions for the same reason you are only comparing raw numbers from the past 3 years… the decline in sales makes it hard to gauge across seasons. To me, the chart positions are pretty consistent so I like to go with those.

    I also understand where you are coming from on the “Idol is losing its selling power” thing. I think the jury’s still out on that one, but I think it is legit to see that the other way.

    One point of clarification: “underperforming” does not equal “failure” to me. All I am saying is that Adam is doing good but not great, and under the circumstances I would have expected great (or at least very good LOL) DURING CHRISTMAS. I think Adam is well positioned to do great going forward. I think he’s going to end up a lot like Jordin with multiple pop hits, a high mainstream profile and an album that sells well. I just think he didn’t sell that great during Christmas.

    ETA: Other people have lost Idol and done well with holiday sales because they were popular on the show. So no, that is not a reason to me.

    And now I’m going to bed. Goodnight all!

  245. And re Kris’s album – a bunch of them seem to be going for $7.99, and I thought Adam’s was as well, so why the big jump just for Kris’s?

    I think people who were sitting on the fence about buying Kris’s album, even though they liked LLWD, decided to buy it because of the sale. I think people either like Adam or don’t, so I don’t think there is much sitting on the fence there.

  246. Not having a popular coronation single really hurt Kris’s sales.

    ITA undercooked. I always tought that was the poisoned gift from the AI win for Kris. The song is not great and it’s not in Kris’s style and it doesn’t fit his voice (recording is ok though). So right after AI, going from show to show to sing NoBo live, i tought at the time, it was downward a nuisance. This may have make some people less interested in him.

    Nice his album is now at #35

  247. ITA- I know people keep thinking that Adam should do better because he was popular on AI, but was he really? He lost, supposedly in a landslide, to Kris. The media loved Adam, but obviously not the AI TV audience. If you didn’t watch AI, how much would Adam be on your radar? Probably not a lot. So if the AI viewing audience didn’t love him, that certainly cuts into sales.

    Well, he was the runner-up after all, so he had to be somewhat popular to finish as high as he did in the competition. The AI audience certainly didn’t hate the guy or else he would have been long gone before reaching the final two. He came up short when it came to winning the title, but I wouldn’t consider that an indication that the viewing audience didn’t love him.

    Adam is doing OK. It’s just my opinion that his sales relative to the hype and great promo he has received have been underwhelming. Kris’ album sales are underwhelming as well. Yes, Adam’s album has outsold Kris’ 2-1, but neither one of them is really setting the world on fire. The thing is, Adam was expected to do so, Kris wasn’t. Honestly, were most people really expecting it to take until the 2nd week of February for his album to reach the gold threshold in sales? I doubt it. I think most expected him to reach that milestone a lot quicker than he has. That’s part of the reason why some feel that Adam hasn’t quite lived up to the hype and expectations that were placed on him both during and after the competition. He might eventually live up to that hype, but so far it hasn’t happened IMO.

    One point of clarification: “underperforming” does not equal “failure” to me.

    ITA.

  248. I’m sure the reduced price on itunes is causing Kris’ album sales to go up, but maybe there is a slight bump from AI tonight (I’d like to think that seeing Kris’ face on the backdrop is good for something!!)? How’s our little Ford ad song doing? Did AWM get its weekly bump from its 10 seconds of fame?

  249. That’s part of the reason why some feel that Adam hasn’t quite lived up to the hype and expectations that were placed on him both during and after the competition. He might eventually live up to that hype, but so far it hasn’t happened IMO.

    But for me, he has lived up to the hype because I think his album is really good. His voice is exceptional and it certainly comes across on the album. That to me is what the hype was about. In regards to sales, I’m not sure what more he could do? I think he’s trying to put himself out there as much as he can and in as many ways as he can so people get comfortable with him and give his album a chance. And keep in mind that hype has never come from Adam. In fact, Adam never said he would sell a million records by spring. In regards to sales, the only statement I ever heard him make was that he hoped the album sold well enough so he would get to tour.

  250. I think in terms of “hype” meaning media exposure and name-recognition, Adam is more than meeting expectations. As far as music sales, did people really have specific expectations? How could they without knowing what kind of music he would record? His AI songs were all over the place.

    He made an album that is much more musically adventurous than most past idols, and is eclectic and new. And selling quite well. So I bet his team is pretty happy with these results!

  251. As far as music sales, did people really have specific expectations?

    I agree. People throw out the term that he’s not meeting expectations, yet where were those ever coming from? Where were they stated? It always seems very nebulous to me, and very “after the fact” too. As in, hindsight is 20/20 – it’s easy to put a label on these expectations after we’ve seen how things play out.

  252. To me, the chart positions are pretty consistent so I like to go with those.

    So, if we compare the chart positions at 10 weeks post album release-where are we? If you compare the last 4 winners and runners-up, how does #21 on the BB200 compare?
    I’m guessing Cook would be much higher. Is there any other winner or runner-up that Adam is not higher than or at least close to on the charts?

    Adam’s album has outsold Kris’ 2-1, but neither one of them is really setting the world on fire. The thing is, Adam was expected to do so, Kris wasn’t.

    Why wasn’t the winner expected to outsell the runner-up. It has happened every year, except for season 2 and 8.
    Why wasn’t Kris expected to sell more than 250K by February?
    Did people really expect Kris to be the lowest selling idol winner of all the seasons?
    If Adam is “underwhelming”, then Kris is tanking.
    Kris won over a very popular and (according to some on this board ) overly pimped contestant. He sold 250K of a crappy coronation song. What happened?

  253. As far as music sales, did people really have specific expectations? How could they without knowing what kind of music he would record? His AI songs were all over the place.

    ITA- And that is where we go full circle and go back to Season 7’s winner and runner up. S7 is being used as the yardstick for S8, which I’m not a fan of doing. I don’t think the Davids debut albums are superior to Kris or Adam’s debut albums, so that can’t be the reason as to why the Davids sold more during their first few months of sales. The only conclusion is that the Davids were more beloved by the AI fanbase then either Kris or Adam and that is reflected in the early sales numbers.

  254. Not having a popular coronation single really hurt Kris’s sales.

    Kris had sold 250K of that terrible song. They were playing it on my Top 40 station here. (I’ve heard LLWD 1X and WWFM 0X) IMO he should have kept singing it and promoting it. People like those stupid coronation songs. Most of them have been horrible to bad. Every other idol winner has had to sing the crappy song on tour and at their early promotions. It helps people remember “that winning moment”. I think it was a mistake to drop it. Kris is supposed to be the arranging genius. I think he should have rearranged it to fit him so he could continue to sing it live.

  255. I think it was a mistake to drop it. Kris is supposed to be the arranging genius. He should have rearranged it to fit him so he could continue to sing it live.

    ITA-But with a bit of a caveat. I think the biggest mistake was having both Kris and Adam sing the song in the finale and then have Simon give his Caesar’s thumbs down to the song. It somewhat set the tone. But I agree, if Kris would have been allowed, he should have reworked the song. I think if he sung it on tour, NoBo could have gone gold. Keep in mind, not only is the coronation song a souvenir of the season, but also of the tour.

  256. Why wasn’t the winner expected to outsell the runner-up. It has happened every year, except for season 2 and 8.
    Why wasn’t Kris expected to sell more than 250K by February?
    Did people really expect Kris to be the lowest selling idol winner of all the seasons?

    Kris wasn’t even expected to win Idol, and the fact that he did was a surprise to a lot of people. Unlike Adam, Kris has never been pimped or hyped as the next big Idol superstar so no, it’s not surprising or unexpected to me that his album sales have been underwhelming. Granted, I thought his album would be selling at a better clip than it has, but I never expected it to sell like Cook or even Archie’s did right out of the gate. I also expected Adam’s album to outsell Kris’.

  257. Kris wasn’t even expected to win Idol, and the fact that he did was a surprise to a lot of people.

    So why did Kris win?

  258. So why did Kris win?

    Because he received more votes than Adam in the end?

    Was Kris considered the favorite to win all season? I don’t think so. That’s what I mean. Adam was favored by many to win, Kris was the underdog.

  259. Why wasn’t the winner expected to outsell the runner-up. It has happened every year, except for season 2 and 8.
    Why wasn’t Kris expected to sell more than 250K by February?
    Did people really expect Kris to be the lowest selling idol winner of all the seasons?

    Kris wasn’t even expected to win Idol, and the fact that he did was a surprise to a lot of people. Unlike Adam, Kris has never been pimped or hyped as the next big Idol superstar so no, it’s not surprising or unexpected to me that his album sales have been underwhelming. Granted, I thought his album would be selling at a better clip than it has, but I never expected it to sell like Cook or even Archie’s did right out of the gate. I also expected Adam’s album to outsell Kris’.

    Also the fact that all four judges wanted the runner up to win, that Simon went to Ryan’s radio show the morning after and dissed Kris, that the whole AI tour in my opinion is one long dissing of Kris by all the printed media, that almost every interview of Kris is an opportunity to advertise for the runner up, etc, etc.

    Having said all that, I still think that Kris will have a long music career based on his enormous talent. Just like at AI, with no pimping whatso ever, his talent will shine through. I’m ignoring all the statistic of how an AI winner has to sell what, etc,etc. Kris is one of a kind and he’ll be great and he is doing what he loves for a living due to AI; so I can NOT be too bitter about it.

  260. undercooked
    02/04/2010 at 1:15 am
    I don’t think the Davids debut albums are superior to Kris or Adam’s debut albums, so that can’t be the reason as to why the Davids sold more during their first few months of sales. The only conclusion is that the Davids were more beloved by the AI fanbase then either Kris or Adam and that is reflected in the early sales numbers.

    With all due respect, that is an opinion. I very much think that DCTR is superior to both FYE and Kris Allen’s debut, and I believe that is very much the reason why it sold at a brisker pace than the Season 8 albums. Also, IMO, Crush is by far the most radio-friendly, pure pop song on all four of these albums.

  261. Was Kris considered the favorite to win all season? I don’t think so. That’s what I mean. Adam was favored by many to win, Kris was the underdog.

    Yes, so was Cook.
    To some extend, Cook and Kris had a similar run on AI. Both underdogs song arrangers guitar players who beat the favorite.
    Both brilliant performers, lots of stage presence, charisma, and fantastic voice.

    Of course, Adam had some buzz after the finale but he also had it before and it didn’t stop people voting for Kris.

    So considering all the similarities, I expected Kris’ sales to be of similar level as Cook’s ones.

    As for Adam, we all know that he is controvertial and divides the opinion, so I never expected him to have through the roof initial sales as they are based on the AI audience.

  262. Some musicians do not aspire to be “Superstars”, ubiquitous, or media darlings, but to merely sell a lot of albums and/or singles, and make themselves and their Record Labels a great deal of money in the process, with minimal muss and fuss. Say what you will about David Cook, but he is any Label’s dream. He is the Budget Idol, IMO.

    Cook is a big album seller in a tough economy, despite having only two singles released (which frankly, are costly and time-consuming to promote and produce videos for). Rumor has it that a third (not counting Bar-B-Sol) was considered, but it was mutually agreed upon by Cook and RCA that the costs outweighed the benefits at that point in the record cycle. No need to release another single to save face, as the record had already performed admirably.

    Obviously, Cook has minimal costume, make-up, set, choreography, glitter and back-up dancer requirements, heh. His band is a motley crew of old friends and unknowns, and are, frankly, probably pretty cheap. Bloody talented, though.

    His hired songwriters were decidedly less “hot” (90s has-beens, some might argue), and therefore less expensive than Adam’s stable of hip songwriters, who included Pink, Gaga, Muse, etc. Additionally, Cook was involved with writing most of his own songs, and so money was saved there as well. And no, songwriters of that caliber do not only receive royalties based on sales – they also get session fees and lump sum payments.

    And don’t forget, he undertook the cheapest tour ever! Stinky bus, fast food, inexpensive venues, limited access to showers, and no frills + 92% sell-out rates and over 155 shows in one year = deceptively large profits.

    And finally, except for “fan-blog-gate”, his PR and damage control costs were likely minimal. He is the epitome of “politically correct”, and could probably have a second career as a diplomat. His endless rounds of radio station visits in every corner of Small-Town USA (thanks to his never-ending tour) and quiet charm and likability will have hopefully put him where he needs to be in terms of garnering radio support for his next album. Having allies like this in the radio industry will stand him in good stead, I think:

    http://paulcook.blog.y98.com/2009/11/11/david-cook-is-my-brother/

  263. Kris’ album is now #37 on iTunes. Maybe they should have lowered the price before this? And/or sprung for some banners? Because something seems to have kicked in here. I know it’s not a huge number in actual copies sold, but going from what — #108 yesterday to #37 today is still a huge jump.

    Nice bump for KATA! I would assume this is a result of the grammy’s sales bump (eg people logging on to buy albums and tunes that won or were performed on the grammies) combined with the sale and the big itunes banner. Its not big numbers, but if he remains high this week he could possibly double his digital album sales from the prior week, which would result in a big percentage gain in overall sales for the cd. It looks like FYE cd is not getting a similar bump (probably cause it just had a big oprah bump) .

  264. The fact that Cook won and Adam didn’t really doesn’t matter IMO. That hasn’t stopped Adam from getting the kind of primo promotional gigs that most runners-up don’t get (like an Oprah gig or a closing performance spot on the AMAs, for example).

    You should amend the “runners-up” to “winners”. In fact, I actually can’t think of any winner who got those two gigs coming off Idol, anyone know of one? Adam got superstar-to-be treatment, what David Cook got is not even comparable to him.

    You think Adam is underperforming and that is fine. I do not think he is underperforming at all! I think he is doing very well!

    I’m sure fans tend to see things differently from the rest who aren’t fans. Perhaps there are Kris fans who are jumping up and down saying how great his album sales are, but the rest of us who aren’t committed fans would just roll our eyes. By any kind of impartial standard, Adam is doing OK, but not “very well”, certainly not when you consider the publicity he got (yes, he in under-performing seen in the context of the promotion and publicity he got). However I am one who think Adam will do “very well” eventually, if not “great” or “fantastic”. He has the talent to do it.

    If Adam is “underwhelming”, then Kris is tanking.

    And that would be a reasonable thing to say for a debut album from an AI winner at this moment in time, Kris is currently the worst performing AI winner. (Although personally I wouldn’t use the word “tanking”, I’ve described Kris’s album sales as “sickly” and “poor” before. But Jordin’s second album? Now that’s really “tanking”.) I do expect Kris to perform better eventually though.

  265. By any kind of impartial standard, Adam is doing OK, but not “very well”, certainly not when you consider the publicity he got (yes, he in under-performing seen in the context of the promotion and publicity he got).

    then by any impartial standard 99% of the artists who released cds during the holiday season are uderperforming…there are only a few artists who have maintained a top 10 (or even top 20) position on the BB200 since then. Subo, gaga, taylor, alicia…many established artists who also got huuugge promo have sales that are less than Adam’s or only moderately more. Most of the acts that debuted high on the chart in late December/early january immediately or relatively quickly fell down the chart.

    Re: Kris, I actually don’t expect him to perform better because I actually think he is performing pretty consistently for the genre he is in. Most of the artists he has been compared with (Matt Nathanson, Matt Kearney etc.) are not big album sellers at all. They have had a moderate hit single and then relatively low album sales. But they make a nice living off of that and touring. Kris seems to be following this pattern. Maybe one could have expected stronger initial sales as the AI winner, but if you take that out of the equation, he seems to be doing just fine with LLWD and the album sales are consistent with those of others in his genre that people have compared him to and were excited about him working with.

  266. You should amend the “runners-up” to “winners”. In fact, I actually can’t think of any winner who got those two gigs coming off Idol, anyone know of one? Adam got superstar-to-be treatment, what David Cook got is not even comparable to him.

    Yes, he did, but by the end of year when the bulk of the sales is made, he was seriously lagging in radio play, that is the other big sales ‘fuel’, whereas Cook had continuous radio presence first with TOML, then with Light On.

  267. It took Carrie Underwood about 8 weeks or less to hit platinum. Not a year. Daughtry won’t need a year either.

    Susan Boyle’s album was released the same week as Adam’s. And she’s gone 3x platinum so it’s not really about years of experience for folks who become famous off TV shows. The fame is biggest at the beginning. For example, Adam was on the cover of Rolling Stone before his album was released. He closed the AMA. I highly doubt he’ll get that promo for his second album.

  268. Carrie and Daughtry’s current albums are at minimum platinum. So they’re still doing tons better than anyone from S8.

    Let’s see…Carrie is probably the most visible country female artist at this time but for Tayloe Swift. She has won numerous industry awards and a duet grammy, I believe. She is 5 years removed from AI and has had a long time to build up a fan base. But then….she is sorely lagging behind the sales of a 19 year old also female also blond country singer who won a solo grammy and doesn’t have the same vocal skills. Gosh….Carrie is a failure based on the AI criteria (or does that only work in comparison to other Idols).

    And Daughtry came off of a 5 million selling album in a genre that has been popular for quite some time. Boy ain’t meeting expectations this time around.

  269. Holy crap.

    So, way back when, I said that I thought Adam was doing good not great for someone coming off Idol with hype and popularity. I argued that was not really a Cook vs Adam assessment, it had more to do with idol history overall. I also said his label should be happy with him, he’s gonna be a star with multiple pop hits and strong album sales, he was gonna carve his own path to success, etc etc.

    Apparently, implying he’s done anything less than great is enough to start an heated discussion of… Jordin vs Cook? And Chris Brown (who’s from Idol now? I guess?)? Saying he’s done good is not enough to avoid a cage death match argument and apparently… implications of “so called idol expertise?” Am I reading this correctly? Please correct me if I’m wrong. No, he is doing FANTASTIC. Alrighty then. LOL!

    Please note I am not objecting to a continued discussion, but questioning the crazy way the disussion is unfolding, wildly diverging off the original point, arguing in circles…

    But then again, that’s kind if normal. Nevermind. LMAO!

  270. I think Daughtry is underperforming for his second album. My rule of thumb is that each album of an Idol sells 60% less than the previous hone. Carrie’s third album seems to be on the same track as her second. If you think they’re underperforming that’s fine.

    Adam may still end up with a platinum album. It’s possible. He can follow the Jordin model and sell off Pop hits. But I think all his insane promo led people to think his sales would be more explosive.

  271. We can’t really debate this because people have different musical tastes. I voted for Cook, bought his album, and was disappointed in it. I never listen to it. I also voted for Adam and bought his album and love it!

    Exactly the same for me. I was a huge Cook fan but listened to DCTR about four times. I still play his other material though, and am looking forward to his new album, hoping for a different direction.
    I was anxiously waiting for Adam’s album, scared of being as disappointed, but I wasn’t. I love it.

  272. Rihanna’s last record was certified platinum, but she didn’t sell one million copies. Yet.

    Billboard 200 2/6/10
    19 RIHANNA RATED R 21,999 -7 23,704 571,733

    I don’t know how much she sold in the past week, but I guess she is still under 600k.

  273. No Idol has yet to be on top of the musical heap in anything…that is the ultimate bottom line.

    I completely disagree with you. You may hate Carrie Underwood, but I could make a persuasive argument that she was the TOP female country artist of the last decade. I like facts, and the fact is that Carrie Underwood had the top selling country album in the last decade. Carrie had the most top ten country hits by a female artist in the last decade. Before He Cheats is the fourth best selling country song of all time. I could go on and on but just because your idol isn’t on top on the musical heap doesn’t mean you can downgrade the MASSIVE success of others.

  274. Gangreed29 — no question that Carrie is at the top of the heap of country music….hard to name a bigger or better selling female country star. Not a fan of country music at all, but I adore Carrie and have downloaded several of her crossovery singles.

  275. I prefer to see the raw figures and not some thing gotten from Wiki.

    RIAA certified it, it has got nothing to do with wiki. Take up the argument with RIAA.

  276. Adam is doing fine. As I recall, after Adam’s debut album came out, it was reported in the press that his first week sales exceeded expectations. So obviously, RCA has a realistic picture of how Adam will sell and they have decided to invest in him based on what they kinow.

    Kris’s sales are much more worrying, but with a successful single, and hopefully a second successful single, he will get to make a second album.

  277. It’s a sad day when “Pants on the Ground” outsells Allison’s single. Also I believe Alvin and the Chipmunks is still charting on the BB 100.

  278. ITA-But with a bit of a caveat. I think the biggest mistake was having both Kris and Adam sing the song in the finale and then have Simon give his Caesar’s thumbs down to the song. It somewhat set the tone.

    I agree this wasn’t a good start. On the other hand, I think I’d hate the song whether Simon commented or not — I’ve *loved* some songs that he says he hates!

    Honestly, I thought that both guys did quite a good job in their quickie studio remakes of No Boundaries, and if they’d had weeks to work on those studio versions — and permission to change things up as much as they wanted — I’m sure they both could have made at least a nice polyester change purse out of that sow’s ear. Kris and Adam are both good at remakes when they have the time to do it, I think. But that song’s too hard to sing for the mediocre payoff it provides, in my opinion. Definitely was a very unfortunate thing for Kris to be saddled with out of the gate.

  279. You may hate Carrie Underwood

    Please, I don’t hate Carrie…I think she has a beautiful voice and can sing really well. But I also think she is barbie doll plastic with the personality of a door mat. And, again, numbers for me are not the tale of the tape. If others want to base the “greatest” by the numbers, so be it.

    I would rather look at Artists in other ways. And I trully believe that Carrie does not have the name recognition that many other “country stars” have or had. Just my humble opinion.

  280. I find it interesting that “success” is quantified solely on the number of units sold and how fast and how early in the process those numbers are reached. Based on this most of the really “huge” musical stars that we “honor” today wouldn’t have made it past their first single or album.

    There you go.

    On the other hand, I don’t think we can entirely blame fans for this attitude.

    19 and the labels certainly contributed to this atmosphere, at least in the early days of the show, by shoving some people into music styles on their early albums that didn’t fit them, insisting on top-40-level sales and radio play when that wasn’t appropriate for the performers, and dropping worthy talented people who might well have had excellent and building careers like hot rocks when they weren’t able to put these incongruent things together to sell platinum as pop starts out of the gate, etc.

    And then there’s the media coverage of idols — which, because it’s a voting show, a horse race with wins, places, and shows, really really really focuses on sales for these guys *way* more than they ever do with other fledgling artists. Because of the exposure on the show and the fan voting, the entertainment media tends to treat idols like they’re already well known stars, as if the numbers are the main thing that matters, and as if a slow sales start to their post-idol career is not a gradual start but a plummet of somebody who was formerly famous.

    A lot of blame to go around for the platinum-sales-immediately-are-everything mindset, I think.

  281. And I trully believe that Carrie does not have the name recognition that many other “country stars” have or had. Just my humble opinion.

    What female country artist right now besides Taylor Swift has more name recognition than Carrie.

    I would rather look at Artists in other ways.

    And what way is that? Again, when talking about success, what criteria as a female country singer has carrie not met for you?

  282. undercooked
    02/04/2010 at 9:23 am
    I very much think that DCTR is superior to both FYE and Kris Allen’s debut, and I believe that is very much the reason why it sold at a brisker pace than the Season 8 albums.

    We can’t really debate this because people have different musical tastes. I voted for Cook, bought his album, and was disappointed in it. I never listen to it. I also voted for Adam and bought his album and love it! But I think it could come down to the genre of music people prefer.

    Obviously musical preference is subjective, and that was my point. I was responding to your assertion that “I don’t think the Davids debut albums are superior to Kris or Adam’s debut albums, so that can’t be the reason as to why the Davids sold more during their first few months of sales.”

    I, in fact, think that that could very well be the reason they sold better. Not everyone shares your musical preference.

  283. Obviously musical preference is subjective, and that was my point. I was responding to your assertion that “I don’t think the Davids debut albums are superior to Kris or Adam’s debut albums, so that can’t be the reason as to why the Davids sold more during their first few months of sales.”

    I, in fact, think that that could very well be the reason they sold better. Not everyone shares your musical preference.

    I didn’t say Adam or Kris’s albums were necessarily superior to Cook’s or Archie’s, but rather, they certainly are not inferior.

    I don’t buy the idea that Cook’s album is better and that is why he sold more. Look at “Pants on the Ground.” Would you say that is a better song than Allison’s single? Yet it sold more this week than her single. The Chipmunks sold almost 22,000 albums this week. There are many factors that make up why an album is popular and why it isn’t.

    Also, I am just old enough to have caught the tail end of the Grateful Dead tour when Jerry Garcia was still alive. I don’t believe the Dead had many top forty hits, yet they did well. By the way, it was three days of bliss in Monterey with Los Lobos opening. Awesome show.

  284. I’m kind of lost on the arguments but some of the numbers posted here are off. For example here are the numbers for Norah Jones from last week. If I can get the actual numbers from this week, I’ll post them:

    Norah Jones 666k

    I think Rihanna’s label jumped the gun on her certification because her first single underperformed badly. The Chris Brown thing hurt as well so the platinum certif. was to give her some good P.R.

  285. The Chris Brown thing hurt as well so the platinum certif. was to give her some good P.R.

    Yes, I was wondering that as well. I don’t know why the Chris Brown thing would have hurt her, as she was the victim. I do think, however, she will get to platinum by summer. I also think Adam will get to platinum by the end of the year, but in order to do that, he will need to have two more hit singles.

  286. The numbers posted for Rihanna are wrong. I’ll post the correct ones shortly.

    Don’t bother. My delete finger got busy, I deleted the conversation. It was way off track and full of errors.

    Let’s get back to discussing the IDOLS numbers. And let me remind everyone to please take a deep breath and stay calm.

  287. :) It’s hard to get actual numbers so Brian provides quite a service when he gives the Idol sales numbers on his blog.

    Pop albums live or die on hit singles.

  288. To me, the chart positions are pretty consistent so I like to go with those.

    So, if we compare the chart positions at 10 weeks post album release-where are we? If you compare the last 4 winners and runners-up, how does #21 on the BB200 compare (now #36 at 10 weeks)?
    I’m guessing Cook would be much higher. Is there any other winner or runner-up that Adam is not higher than or at least close to on the charts?

    I would still like to know this information!

  289. “You think Adam is underperforming and that is fine. I do not think he is underperforming at all! I think he is doing very well!”

    By any kind of impartial standard, Adam is doing OK, but not “very well”,

    The Billboard 200
    Issue Date: 2010-02-13

    FYE Album is #36
    KA Album is #122

    Considering where Adam could be on the chart, I’m going with my original statement that he is doing very well. His album has consistently stayed in the top 40 selling albums for the past 10 weeks. It is gold in the US and Canada. He has two singles that are charting, selling and moving up on the charts both in the US and internationally.
    Adam is also starting his international promotion (other than Canada) next month. I am very optimistic about this!
    So, I do not think he is underperforming at all! I think he is doing very well!”

  290. Yes, he’s doing great in relation to Kris. But since Kris is the worst performing Idol of any season, that’s not really saying much. And that’s not to say that Adam is doing poorly. He seems to be doing well, but IMO, well is as far as I’m willing to go — with the caveat that if WWFM continues to grow and with the right second single, he could end up doing very well. Just not there yet IMO.

    And as for the underperforming bit, I do think he is given the amount of promotion he’s received and his ubiquity in the media. But we’ve gone round and round this thing, so I’ll just leave it at that.

  291. Thanks, Mateja! Holy moly! HDD is THAT far off? I had no idea.

    What numbers does Billboard include that HDD doesn’t? I thought I heard HDD didn’t cover Amazon sales. Are there others to account for the discrepancies?

  292. Actual numbers leaked!

    29 UNDERWOOD*CARRIE PLAY ON 18,132 2 17,770 1,263,001
    35 LAMBERT*ADAM FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT 15,291 -22 19,618 492,229
    63 DAUGHTRY LEAVE THIS TOWN 9,196 7 8,607 916,353
    115 ALLEN*KRIS KRIS ALLEN 4,943 -7 5,297 249,768
    169 CLARKSON*KELLY ALL I EVER WANTED 2,937 -7 3,148 828,431

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