Idol Judges Called “Wacky” on The View

Watch the ladies of the View rip into the Idol judges during their Idol segment today. Joy Behar calls the judges “wacky” and Elizabeth Hasslebeck said their antics were an “emotional mess.”

And Sir Elton John, who was sitting in on the panel, mentioned Jennifer Hudson’s premature ouster and repeated his charge, from Season 3, that Idol voting is racist.

However, Elton did sympathize with the kids on the show, It’s so hard for the contestants, ” he said. “I mean, They’re on television, live.They’re trying to do the best they can in the two minutes they’re given.”

Elton is a Michael Lynche fan, “He’s like the voice of an angel, ” he says…

Video After the JUMP…

About mj santilli 33682 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

62 Comments

  1. The thing I find most creepy right now is Kara’s constant leaning into Simon. What’s up with that?

  2. Elton John is an idiot. Voting is racist, that is such baloney and is not supported by one fact whatsoever. People that haul out this unsubstantiated charge are race baiters, John should be above that. I guess he is not.

  3. I have so many issues with that tiny clip.

    First off, the view panel has absolutely no right to criticize the Idol panel, when they can’t even talk normally to each other without yelling over the other one. They are perhaps the most disorganized and dysfunctional panel on television.

    And secondly, as much as I like Elton, he needs to stop sounding like an idiot. It is complete nonsense that the voting was racist. If it was racist, then not only wouldn’t a black singer have won the year before Season 3, but a black person wouldn’t have won THAT season! There are so many other factors, but it was certainly not racist.

  4. People that haul out this unsubstantiated charge are race baiters,

    Couldn’t agree more. Racism is a terrible thing and charges of it should not be made lightly or for shock value. It both increases the level of divisiveness on a serious issue and, when used casually, has the effect of “crying wolf” and diminishing the power of that accusation where it is truly warranted.

    Elton, still love your music, but shut your trap.

  5. Allow me to play devil’s advocate for a bit. . .

    We had Haeley and Katie in the Top 20. Both are cute, bubbly teenagers with some singing potential. Never have blown us away with a powerhouse performance. But Haeley was sent packing, yet Katie is still around. Why?

    Haeley wasn’t going to make it any further–she didn’t have the chops to stick around. But Katie doesn’t have them, either. And she’s kind of snobby to boot. At least Haeley seemed like a good-natured kid. They pretty much even on every parameter.

    Why did America decide to keep Katie but let Haeley go? What does Katie have that Haeley doesn’t? Katie isn’t much better of a singer, if at all.

    I’m NOT suggesting that it’s blatant racism. But when you look at the possibility of having only one minority in the Top 12, people are going to question it. We can blame TPTB for casting for roles/types instead of going for actual singing talent, but still–that’s the best they could do for finding good vocalists? Even if it isn’t, it looks suspect.

  6. OKay, slightly off topic. Sorry MJ. Its just that I watched the other hot topic discussionas Sir Elton had with the ladies. In one segment he discussed his new Broadway show with them while clips from the show were projected on the screen behind him. Part of the reel included a moment in which the two stars of the show – both male – kiss romantically. No one said a word about it on the show – although Sir Elton was talking about the plot which involves the two men, who portray a couple. There don’t to be any complaints on the ABC website. I just wonder if any one bothered to object to the broadcast or whether no one was bothered at all.

    http://theview.abc.go.com/video/hot-topics-right-love-someone

  7. If people are truly racist and vote yay or nay based on color then they don’t even deserve to be mentioned!!! Why keep saying that? I feel the same way about people who didn’t vote for Adam because he was gay or voted FOR him just because he is gay. It’s like…WHATEVER! Are there really droves of people who are THAT religiously or racially charged and express themselves through the voting process on American Idol? Or do most people just vote for who/what they like? Could it (insert gasp) really be that simple? WTF? Or is it perhaps a general preference of pop/pop rock/pop indie over R&B?

    Will this topic be featured on the census? ;-)

  8. LMAO. MJ, are you prescient or did your write-up come after you saw this interview? Cuz you totally called it with EJ.

  9. The thing I find most creepy right now is Kara’s constant leaning into Simon. What’s up with that?

    It’s more awful than just leaning…she is stroking his arm, and he really isn’t doing anything to discourage it, he could easily turn his chair at a different angle and he chooses not to. If I was either one of their significant others I would be PISSED OFF.

  10. Somewhere…Syesha is crying out…”Hey! I’m black! What about me?! Top 3 bitches!!!”

  11. Somewhere…Syesha is crying out…”Hey! I’m black! What about me?! Top 3 bitches!!!”

    And then she hears the crickets. LOL, poor Syesha, always forgotten amongst the finalists. It’s like she’s somehow been erased from the AI history book.

    Well, I disagree with Elton, but that’s been debated for years and I have nothing new to add. But I will say, who in the hell are the harpies on the View to call anyone wacky? Seriously? Those bitches should be grateful we let them live.

  12. First off, the view panel has absolutely no right to criticize the Idol panel, when they can’t even talk normally to each other without yelling over the other one. They are perhaps the most disorganized and dysfunctional panel on television.

    Amen! I saw the headline and immediately thought of an old saying about a pot and a kettle, but I’m afraid Elton will call me a racist if I get more specific than that.

  13. Three out of the top four in Season Eight were not of Caucasian ethnicity.

  14. I guess we will never know the intent of Idol voters. But considering that 3 out of the 8 who have won were African American was very nice to see. People in those 3 cases did not base their votes on race at all: Reuben, Fantasia, and Jordin. Talent can transcend race and sexual orientation.

    Sure, sadly there will always be racist. But the performing arts transcends that like Russell winning on SYTCD based on sheer talent and performance skills and Jordin on Idol. I do believe people vote for the constant whose performance they really like and they generate a fan base. And a black contestant can have tons of white fans…case in point, Beyonce, Jay Z, Michael Jackson, Mariah Carey all are extremely popular among many races and culture and in many countries.

  15. Yes Syesha made the top 3 one season as did Vonzelle in a another season and Fantasia, Reuben, and Jordin all were fan favorites who won. Jennifer being kicked off early was stunning and it will go down in Idol history as one of the most shocking early exits along with Daughtry not making the finals as those 2 have had stellar careers that has outshined the winners of their respective seasons.

  16. Why is Elton pointing his finger at the voting public? Did it occur to him that the african americans put into the top 24 are mediocre at best (minus Big Mike who is really good – IMO – and has earned my votes the past two weeks)? Idol didn’t give us Angela Martin or the other Jermaine to vote on. Both of which I could have seen going far in this competition. Haeley over Angela???? Jermaine Sellers over Jermaine P.????

    I agree with whoever said the View panel is more disfunctional than the panel of idol judges. LOL!!

  17. Elton John is an idiot.

    umm, Im sorry but I politely disagree. Elton John is a world renown musician and I hardly believe an “idiot” could achieve his level of success. Just sayin he deserves to have an opinion like everyone… even it sounds

    First off, the view panel has absolutely no right to criticize the Idol panel, when they can’t even talk normally to each other without yelling over the other one. They are perhaps the most disorganized and dysfunctional panel on television.

    I think what they do is real and unscripted kinda like a real conversation between ppl would go about…regular ppl having a conversation often dont organize themselves (and give an order to who speaks when) they just say what is on their mind to whoever is listening (and do interrupt other ppl) especially if its a big group…otherwise it would appear fabricated…those types of organized scenarios occur more in classrooms and more formal settings…plus they have a time limit…jmho.

  18. I think Simon is relieved he’s leaving after this season. The panel is a mess this year. Ellen is useless, Kara is terrible (i didn’t have such negative feelings towards anyone on tv in my whole life) and Randy….sigh. I thought it couldn’t be worse after last season and it is, it’s much worse. Who would have thought? They should just dump everybody and find new panel for next season. It’s their best option IMO. It can’t get much worse than this.

  19. It’s more awful than just leaning…she is stroking his arm, and he really isn’t doing anything to discourage it, he could easily turn his chair at a different angle and he chooses not to. If I was either one of their significant others I would be PISSED OFF.

    Shit, I would have begun worrying about spouses after she had Casey to damn near disrobe for her. She’s got some issues, and her hubby better be extremely secure, because her cougar bit it too realist if you ask me.

    Won’t comment on the racism thing cause it’s sorta silly. Yes, some folk vote based on race, it’s not necessarily racism, but sometimes my like voting for what is comfortable to you. Elton shouldn’t throw around that so easily. I didn’t vote for Jennifer at all that year as I don’t think she was ready at the point. She had potential but at the point in time Fantasia was absolutely ready, and Latoya London was cuter. Now that still doesn’t explain imho Jasmine, and DeGarmo lasting, but it was more a luck of the draw, they sorta hit in plain sight, the same way more other less worthies have advanced. Not racism, just idols par for the course. Now some of the seasons aftermaths have been filled with racism, sexism, and homophobia, but then that is the nature of the idol beast. Of crap, I guess I did comment.

  20. I’m not going to say the American Idol voters are racist, Because I don’t believe all are. But I do believe race do play a factor. Example Michael Lynch…I believe he has the best voice of the guys this year and he is smart at picking songs that showcase his voice but I believe because of his color he want get pass the top 8.

    Also yes Fantasia did win season 3 but she was Simon favorite, Yes Ruben Studdard was won season 2 but he was Simon favorite, Yes Melinda Dolittle got to the top 3 but than again she was Simon favorite. And yes Jordin won season 6 but after Melinda left, Simon start pimping Jordan.

    I’m just saying I don’t think those mention above would have got as far as they did without being the judges favorite, Not because they aren’t talented, But because I do believe race play a part in voting.

  21. Good thing Daughtry’s white, or Elton would be calling his shocking boot racist as well.

  22. First off,

    As much as we don’t want to admit it race plays a role in everything. But the difference is I don’t think it’s blatant I think it’s subconscious and having to do with demographics. As a white teenage girl, you see yourself in Katie not Haeley. And your heartthrob will be Alex, Tim, or Casey not Big Mike. That’s why as African-American or Latino or Asian you have to be on top of your game at all times you can not be just good you have to be great that is how it is in this comp. and life. Nature of the game. Furthermore if you want to sing r&b/soul/jazz A.I. is just the wrong way to go, especially if you don’t win you will have zero credibility. And even if you do win i.e. Ruben, you may not make it. You have to have an edge, A.I. takes that away. Bottom line right now if you are black and want a successful music career in r&b stay away from idol, unless you are a gentle giant, or have something that little white girls would love.

  23. I think what folks forget is what while Fantasia won Season 3 and LaToya made it to the Top 4, the week Jennifer went home all three girls were the bottom 3 vote getters. It was pretty stunning given the relative talent of that 3 vs many safe contestants.

  24. LOL idolthoughts.I agree the judges are weird.And,No,american idol voters are not racist.But, frau (sorry,I know a lot of people hate that).well according to vftw they like to tard over white contestants over minorities.History kinda proves that’s true.and like it or not “Frau” make up the majority of the show’s audience

  25. Kara is such a creepy cougar…when Paula did it it was funny.When Kara does it,it’s disturbing.I feel so bad for shit-for-brains husband,I mean,really, making him wear the wedding ring when she wears it “when it matches her outfit” is the limit of stupidity.I hate sfb(shit for brains)

  26. Three out of the top four in Season Eight were not of Caucasian ethnicity.

    Um….what?

    A black male has not made it past 10th since season 4. The viewing audience has changed rapidly since Reuben and Fantasia’s seasons so I don’t think their early victories excuse anything that happens today. The two seasons that were dominated heavily by african americans season 3 and season 6 are frequently complained about. Lil, Syesha, and Michael are dismissed as irrelevant towards the competition because the show has supposedly “evolved” past the type of music they are making. Do I think the viewing audience is blatantly racist? No. This is not as open and shut of a case as some believe however.

  27. Kastek421, So.Much.Word. Thank you very much. Any time you use a ‘-ist’ word, you’re going to get a whole bunch of people steaming mad and defensive. It doesn’t help matters any. That being said, I do not believe we live in a colorblind world. It would be nice, and I’d like to think we’re moving in that direction, but Idol can only reflect our current state of awareness, and that includes culturally as well.

    druzilla, I did not forget that Season 3 Bottom 3 disaster. I remember being absolutely shocked. Almost as much as when Tamyra Gray was voted off. Bottom line is that the Idol audience and especially the voters are not really a representative slice of America. The voters definitely skew young, white and female hence the results. It doesn’t mean all voters fit that demographic. And it also doesn’t mean that people of color won’t go far in the competition, but they need to have appeal to that majority demographic. And yes, it helps infinitely if Simon gives them his seal of approval.

    On the judges, I didn’t really have a problem with the judges last night, except Kara and the way she fawns all over Simon, and constantly leans into the camera for more time. Yuck. That, and when she and Simon are talking during the kid’s performances. The kids only have 2 minutes to make their cases. You’d think the least they could do is listen for those 2 minutes. Even though I don’t think Tim Urban deserves a spot on that stage and did not find his performance to be in any way exceptional, I don’t have a problem with Ellen running up to hug the guy.

  28. Lil, Syesha, and Michael are dismissed as irrelevant towards the competition because the show has supposedly “evolved” past the type of music they are making.

    There are a lot of contestants that are irrelevant…not because of evolution, but because they haven’t achieved any real measure of success.

    Do I think racism exists here, there and everywhere? Absolutely. But, I don’t think that racially motivated people constitute any type of majority when it comes to American Idol. We have a black President of the United States! It just seems silly to deem American Idol racist.

  29. Three out of the top four in Season Eight were not of Caucasian ethnicity.

    Not quite. Two out of top five of S8 had someone not caucasian, but out of the top 4, only one person wasn’t and zero out of the top 3.

  30. Now I’m not saying I agree with him but I do think there are racial undertones with voting and selecting contestants. A cute white boy with average singing talent is more likely to be successful than an African American on this show and that’s the truth. Yes Syesha made it top 3 but she pratically gets no credit at all going on diff sites she was simply considered the token black diva role and that’s why she was there. Not for talent at all just because she was the only one. I could go on but I really don’t wanna get deep into this. I agree with the person who said if your a black r&b artist this show is not for you.

  31. movin2thabeet, wasn’t it Alex that Ellen hugged? I think Tim’s performance was fine. Not great like Jason’s, but good enough to get him into the TOP 12.

    I haven’t found American Idol to be racist. In Season 3, the girls were spilting their votes with each other. Idol got it’s chosen winner even though it may not have been its chosen Final 2.

  32. A black male has not made it past 10th since season 4. The viewing audience has changed rapidly since Reuben and Fantasia’s seasons so I don’t think their early victories excuse anything that happens today.

    What has being male got to do with anything? Unless you are saying that being male is of a separate race?

    Those who want to make the argument that there is something racist in this must explain how Ruben, Fantasia and Jordin managed to win – that’s 3 out of 8, a proportion that suggests they are actually excessively over-represented. The only possible way you can argue that there is something racist about this is to say that black people are naturally far better singers, they should really have won every single year, the fact that they didn’t must only be because America is racist.

  33. Those who want to make the argument that there is something racist in this must explain how Ruben, Fantasia and Jordin managed to win – that’s 3 out of 8, a proportion that suggests they are actually excessively over-represented.

    You quoted my post but then miss the part where I explain that the viewing audience has changed drastically since season 3. Who else was going to win Jordin’s season? It came dangerously close to being that trainwreck Blake Lewis…

    What has being male got to do with anything? Unless you are saying that being male is of a separate race?

    I am not about to explain the difficulties a black male faces in this society but it is an important distinction.

  34. I am not about to explain the difficulties a black male faces in this society but it is an important distinction.

    Strange, I distinctly remember someone called Obama got elected as president.

    You quoted my post but then miss the part where I explain that the viewing audience has changed drastically since season 3. Who else was going to win Jordin’s season? It came dangerously close to being that trainwreck Blake Lewis…

    Change in what terms? From one where blacks were excessively represented (two in first four years) to one which is more representative of the racial make-up of the country (one in last four years)? Which one are you arguing is racist?

  35. Silliest argument anyone can ever make = citing Barack Obama as a bounce-back everytime someone mentions racism. Your naive if you think Obama’s election somehow proves that America is less-racist than we thought, proof is in the numbers.

  36. Strange, I distinctly remember someone called Obama got elected as president.

    One man’s success does not negate the suffering of others.

    Change in what terms? From one where blacks are excessively represented to one which is more representative of the racial make-up? Which one are you arguing is racist?

    Blacks were never excessively represented, but now are vastly underrepresented in the voting. But besides that, the music preference has shifted from an audience that appreciated R&B music to one that wants a rock musician, and when someone like Paige tries to sing pop/rock she is told by the show and audience that she is not that and she should sing an R&B song, and then would probably complain about that R&B sound being dated and not what the show is about anymore.

  37. Furthermore in response to Hazehel what has changed is music in general. It’s not about voice anymore it’s about glossy and faux-indie artists. It’s not really about organic singing anymore. Not to say black ppl have the market cornered in that area, Rihanna, Ashanti, Cassie, and Keri Hilson are proof that that is not true. Plus I think Crystal is the best by far this season. I don’t know if Fantasia would have won if she was here this season, I don’t think so. My contention again is as a black artist don’t look to idol, they will try to pigeon-hole you. How Angela Martin and Jermaine Purifoy didn’t make it is a puzzle.

  38. Blacks were never excessively represented, but now are vastly underrepresented in the voting.

    I’m still not understanding what you are arguing about. Explain how Ruben and Fantasia managed to win that can satisfy a even a vaguely racist interpretation? Are you arguing that the voting audience were biased against white people?

    One man’s success does not negate the suffering of others.

    Yes, and three season win out of eight is not enough. They should win every season.

  39. Those who want to make the argument that there is something racist in this must explain how Ruben, Fantasia and Jordin managed to win – that’s 3 out of 8, a proportion that suggests they are actually excessively over-represented.

    I touch on this on the first page. Ruben was heavily pimped by Simon, Fantasia was heavily pimped by Simon and when Melinda left(who was heavily pimped by Simon) he started to pimp Jordin. Black contestants have won, But without the judges help, I don’t think they would have won, Not because they aren’t talented but because some people do vote based on race.

  40. It ticked me off the first time Elton accused AI of being racist … or American audiences. Still going with that meme bugs me even more. Randy had long been the most liked judge. Debra Byrd and Ricky Minor are both African American and everyone loves them. All the backup singers and most of the musicians are African American. 3 out of 8 winners are African American, and one is part Native American.

    I’d have to go through all the Top 10 lists to figure out the ratio to population of non Caucasians, but I think non-Caucasians have been pretty fairly represented. The problem with having similar types/styles of singers is always going to result in vote splitting among voters who are drawn to that particular type of music or artist. It has nothing to do with race or ethnicity.

    This year the judges screwed up not putting Angela Martin through. She definitely deserved it over people like Hayley or Katie. They put the wrong Jermaine through.

    In the early weeks of the competition, you pretty much have to bring your own voting blocks to make it to Top 12 and then it becomes more open season from the general audience. That means you have to come with a regional fan base or with people like Andrew, an internet base. Face time in the early stages and the ‘back story’ to get featured helps with the general viewers. Then there are the people who just shine quietly and connect with the audience.

    I don’t think racism is the problem.

  41. I’m still not understanding what you are arguing about. Explain how Ruben and Fantasia managed to win that can satisfy a even a vaguely racist interpretation? Are you arguing that the voting audience were biased against white people?

    No, I am claiming the viewing audience was more appreciative of Black artists back then, which again I explained in my whole post.

  42. Yes, and three season win out of eight is not enough. They should win every season.

    Well technically only 2 out of 8 seasons…Because technically Jordin is biracial. I mean I consider her black, But she is half white.

  43. Well, Jordin is bi-racial. Reuben was type-cast(Teddy Bear). And Fantasia is one of the best performers I have ever seen. I just feel like there are several black indie artists like Chrisette Michelle, Ledisi, Raheem Devaughn, Laura Izibor, Melanie Fiona, and Alice Smith. These types are never exploited on Idol. It’s like if your black you have to be r&b no soul just r&b it’s crazy. Youtube those artists by the way.

  44. Truthiness:
    03/11/2010 at 7:21 pm
    Three out of the top four in Season Eight were not of Caucasian ethnicity.

    Not quite. Two out of top five of S8 had someone not caucasian, but out of the top 4, only one person wasn’t and zero out of the top 3.

    ok these statements completely confuse me. Please elaborate?
    I know Adam is Jewish and Allison’s parents are Salvadorian immigrants.
    but you got me about Kris and Danny.

  45. No, I am claiming the viewing audience was more appreciative of Black artists back then, which again I explained in my whole post.

    No, you haven’t explained why half of the first four years were black winners, far in excess of the proportion of blacks in the country. The audience being appreciative or not appreciative is entirely irrelevant. There is something entirely ridiculous when a minority is excessively over-represented it is somehow right, but when they are more representative of the country racial make-up it is somehow racist.

    I touch on this on the first page. Ruben was heavily pimped by Simon, Fantasia was heavily pimped by Simon and when Melinda left(who was heavily pimped by Simon) he started to pimp Jordin. Black contestants have won, But without the judges help, I don’t think they would have won, Not because they aren’t talented but because some people do vote based on race.

    And Adam Lambert was heavily pimped. He lost. Archie was heavily pimped. He lost. Explain again why it should work when the contestant is black?

  46. And Adam Lambert was heavily pimped. He lost. Archie was heavily pimped. He lost. Explain again why it should work when the contestant is black?

    This is the 3rd time I’m repeating myself. I’m saying if Jordin, Fantasia and Rueben wasn’t pimped hard they wouldn’t have gotten that far, let along win. Melinda Dolitte(Black) was pimped hard and got to the top 3, I believe she would have left earlier, if Simon wasn’t saying her name every 5 minutes. Archie, Adam, Gokey did get alot of pimp, they didn’t win but without that pimp I think Adam, Gokey and Archie would have left alot faster.

    But than again, thats where the talk of racism comes in, I mean Todrick, Michael has to be on their A game every night, or they are gone, But if Krstyal or Siobhan have an off night, people would vote harder for them to stay. But with Paige, She had an off night, and nobody voted harder for her to stay.(I mean, its a miracle if she isn’t gone tonight)

  47. This is the 3rd time I’m repeating myself.

    However many times you keep repeating it it still doesn’t make sense if you want to make it something about race. Judges have always pimped contestants, the effect will be the same whether they are white or black. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, race has got nothing to do with it. Judges can pimp any contestant they like, those the audience really like will still win. Kris was barely pimped. He won. Simon hated Taylor Hicks. Taylor still won.

  48. Not quite. Two out of top five of S8 had someone not caucasian, but out of the top 4, only one person wasn’t and zero out of the top 3.

    ok these statements completely confuse me. Please elaborate?
    I know Adam is Jewish and Allison’s parents are Salvadorian immigrants.
    but you got me about Kris and Danny.

    Matt’s grandmother is African-American, so he’s the other non-caucasian in the top 5, if one also included Allison as Hispanic as a being non-caucasian. Though I come down on the side of not classifying Allison as being anything other than caucasian. But that goes to a whole big debate about race vs. ethnicity that I don’t want to step into. Especially because my views is that being Hispanic has nothing to do with race, though that doesn’t mean that it still can’t be a minority in this country. But it’s still not a race. But it’s a genetically and especially politically, fraught subject, so I’m not going to get into it. One of those subjects I like to avoid here. I’ll save my debates for my biology and sociology classes.

  49. Let’s see, the most popular day time talk show host of all time is black, the second ranked (soon to be #1) when Oprah retires is a lesbian, the highest paid movie actor is black (Will Smith), the most popular (well infamous now) athlete in America and the world is black (Tiger Woods). And the freakin President is black! (not to mention he won Iowa for pete’s sake!!).

    Is there racism in the US? Of course, but we’ve come a long way baby. It ain’t the 50’s anymore. I wouldn’t say Idol voting is racist at all. I’m still trying to figure out how Reuben beat Clay who I thought was clearly the better singer. Fantasia won too didn’t she? Thats 25% of black Idol winners, a higher percentage than the US population….

  50. However many times you keep repeating it it still doesn’t make sense if you want to make it something about race. Judges have always pimped contestants, the effect will be the same whether they are white or black. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, race has got nothing to do with it. Judges can pimp any contestant they like, those the audience really like will still win. Kris was barely pimped. He won. Simon hated Taylor Hicks. Taylor still won.

    Yes, and Taylor was white. Yes and Kris was white. They didn’t have to be pimped because they were white. I’m saying you can be a black person on the show and be really really talented and some people still wont vote for you because you are black. If you are black and a judges favorite (ex: Fantasia, Rueben, Jordin, Melinda, Paige Miles<-Simon likes her) it will help you. I honestly think the only reason Paige stayed in the game is because Simon keeps saying how great of a voice she has over and over again, and saying how much potential she has, even though the American public haven't seen it. If she didn't have Simon support I think she would have left last night. But the American Public do listen to the judges whether right or wrong.

  51. The term racism is frustratingly over used and misused, by both blacks and whites. There is still an unacceptable level of racism in this country, but I don’t think it’s happening on American Idol. The producers aren’t turning away black contestants because they’re black and the judges aren’t telling people to not vote for a contestant because they’re black. But I think prejudice does play a role in the way some of the viewing public votes. To deny that is to stick our heads in the sand and pretend we’re all color-blind. The problem with prejudice is it’s often hard to spot, and can manifest itself in ways that aren’t recognizable – such as the tagging of nearly every black female contestant with a big voice as a diva. Racism is overt, it’s in your face, it’s pretty darn clear. That’s why it’s hard to make the argument that American Idol is racist, because it clearly isn’t. But people vote based on their prejudices, whether it’s a prejudice towards black people, gay people or whatever. And guess what? We all have prejudices.

    And so many people are pointing to Jordin as an example of how blacks are overrepresented as AI winners but I’m still not understanding why she is deemed black when one of her parents is white. Anyone care to help me with that one?

  52. Ann10: for the same reason Tiger Woods is considered black. Its the way he looks… same with Jordin. Same with Derek Jeter, same with Tiger Woods. Same with Obama for that matter. He has a white parent too, but is considered African American.

  53. Yes, and Taylor was white. Yes and Kris was white. They didn’t have to be pimped because they were white. I’m saying you can be a black person on the show and be really really talented and some people still wont vote for you because you are black.

    This is getting ridiculous. Many people thought Alex Lambert, Katelyn Eppely and Lilly Scott better than Paige, and they got voted off. Perhaps if Simon has lavish praise on them they would have got through, but what has that got to do with race? And since Paige got through, how does that tally with your assertion about “really really talent” black singer? No way is she “really really talented”, and many considered her a poorer, certainly less interesting, singer than Alex, Katelyn and Lilly, but she still somehow got through with her mediocre performance of “Smile” with a racist voting audience. How on earth is that possible? You really need to tie yourself up in knots trying to make any kind of logic in what you said. And Alex, Katelyn and Lilly are white, so they don’t need pimping, right?

    And so many people are pointing to Jordin as an example of how blacks are overrepresented as AI winners but I’m still not understanding why she is deemed black when one of her parents is white. Anyone care to help me with that one?

    So remove Jordin if you want, can you please explained why with only around 12-13% of the population they still got 25% of winners (and 50% in the first 4 years)? I’m tired of all these assertion but no one want to explain the disparity, as if it is only right that they should win. Why this sense of entitlement?

  54. “So remove Jordin if you want, can you please explained why with only around 12-13% of the population they still got 25% of winners (and 50% in the first 4 years)? I’m tired of all these assertion but no one want to explain the disparity, as if it is only right that they should win. Why this sense of entitlement?”

    Hazelhel, please point to any where in my post where I asserted that it is only right that “they” should win? I simply asked a question about why Jordin is considered black when she is in fact biracial. I’m not sure why you interpreted that as a sense of entitlement.

    “Ann10: for the same reason Tiger Woods is considered black. Its the way he looks… same with Jordin. Same with Derek Jeter, same with Tiger Woods. Same with Obama for that matter. He has a white parent too, but is considered African American.”

    Wow, really? Just looking black means you’re automatically considered black? Jordin doesn’t even “look” black to me. She looks exactly like what she is: biracial. Why is it so hard for people to identify her and others like her accurately?

  55. Hazelhel, please point to any where in my post where I asserted that it is only right that “they” should win? I simply asked a question about why Jordin is considered black when she is in fact biracial. I’m not sure why you interpreted that as a sense of entitlement.

    Because your post is saying that there is in fact prejudice how we vote. Therefore it is up to you to show how it is that in a prejudiced voting pattern black people are actually over-represented as winners. I don’t see how you can argue that there is prejudice in the way people vote unless you also think that black people should have won more often (more than 50%?), which will far far in excess of the actual percentage in population. How would you understand that unless you also think that it is right that they should win if not every time, then most of the time?

  56. Hazelhel, Just because I believe that prejudice plays a role for some voters does not mean I believe blacks should win American Idol every time or even most of the time. That’s a leap you made, not me. Prejudice takes on many forms, as I mentioned before. It’s not always about race.

    Let me make something clear: I don’t give a crap whether the person who wins American Idol is white, black, purple or orange. I don’t think any one group is entitled to win over another and I could care less that two of the eight winners have been black. In fact I think this whole discussion about American Idol being racist is ridiculous, because as I said in my previous post there is no evidence of racism. You seem very concerned about the disproportionate number of black people who have won the show. I’m sorry that’s so upsetting to you. The only reason I brought it up in my original post is because I don’t understand, and still don’t understand, why Jordin is labeled black when she is indeed biracial. I still haven’t gotten a satisfactory answer to that question, unless I’m to believe that merely looking black makes one black.

  57. You seem very concerned about the disproportionate number of black people who have won the show. I’m sorry that’s so upsetting to you.

    No you are being offensive, trying to ascribe feeling to me that I have none. I’m merely pointing out the glaring inconsistency in those who tried to use racism to explain the voting result. And it is inconsistent of you to claim that there is prejudice in a discussion about race, that people do vote according to their prejudice, then somehow that there is no logical implication that such voting would necessarily affect who wins (your point if true would logically mean that there should be more black winners than there are at moment). It is entirely disingenuous for you to claim that that you don’t see evidence of racism in American Idol (you talk about producers turning away contestants?), when that isn’t the topic of discussion at all, the discussion is about the how the public vote. You still haven’t given any reason why you think there is prejudice there are still proportionally more blacks winners. It is easy to assert things, but another thing to explain logically how things come be so. Try explaining instead of making assertion.

    As for Jordin being black or not, people see her as black, that’s all. If you don’t want to see her as black, then so be it. I couldn’t care less and have no interest in talking about it.

  58. I don’t want to get into the whole argument; but just want to say I consider Jordin Black.

    Most biracial people are recognized by their minority status because that is how they identify themselves.

    Obama is a prime example.

  59. If Jordin considers herself black, then fine. I do think it’s a shame that people with biracial heritage have to choose which part of themselves to identify with.

    Hazehel, you clearly didn’t read what I wrote, so I’m done arguing with you.

  60. Hazehel, you clearly didn’t read what I wrote, so I’m done arguing with you.

    I was just trying to get you to make a logical argument, instead for the last couple of posts all you done is going for false personal characterisation, that I am somehow upset about the number of black winners, that I didn’t read your post (I read them all right, and they simply don’t quite make sense). If you don’t want to see what logically flow from your argument, fine, but don’t start getting personal.

    There are a number of ways of seeing this. People may be all prejudiced in some ways and vote according to their prejudice, but since the voting result doesn’t actually showed that black people did suffer (since there are disproportionately more black winners), this means that the prejudice is working not the way you think it does, and does not fit the thesis that blacks are the victims of unfair voting.

    Or perhaps only some people are voting according to some of their prejudices, that to some extent I can certainly subscribe to, although it would be more about sexuality than race (I would say the fact that Adam Lambert lost is a clear case of that). You might even make the case the blacks are in fact the beneficiary of biased voting by black people overwhelmingly voting for those of their own race (this has been borne out the voting pattern for Obama for instance).

    This brings me to what I think is happening here. People in general simply voted for what they like, rather than because they are prejudiced against someone of certain race. People who like soul or R&B will vote for those who perform well on certain genre. However not everyone will like these type of song, therefore in the case of the 3 divas on Season 3, the votes for the divas were necessarily spilt, and the result was that one of them will lose out. It has really nothing to do with race (Elton John was talking nonsense on that one), but everything to do taste of the voting public. Talking about racial prejudice is really too crude, and certainly false in relation to music because black people have been very successful in music. Taste and preference in music is much more diverse and differentiate among the voting public, and it is to this that you should look to for an explanation. However one thing you can argue for is that certain genre of popular music is barely represented on Idol, hip hop/rap for instance, although that has more to do with the nature of the genre – rap isn’t really singing, and American Idol is a singing contest. That a lot of black artists are therefore excluded is an unfortunate effect of that.

    American Idol is really rather limited in the kind of music it likes to showcase, and it’s the kind of music that doesn’t offend and has broad appeal. This year it is trying to branch out into the indie field, and I don’t think it is successful at all. They just end up with a lot of boring singers. (You might be able to tell from that I am actually rather pleased Lilly got voted off).

  61. American Idol, the show itself and all the administrative personnel and producers involved in it, isn’t racist. If people vote off black people more, it isn’t because American Idol the show is racist, it’s because the American public is racist.

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