Billboard – 9/11/10

Today’s theme for the numbers is Billboard. There are a gazillion charts, so we’ll just check some of the majors.

Also, current numbers from other themes are welcome as well.

Times Square, January 2009
Times Square, January 2009


BB200
TW Album Artist (LW/Weeks On)
2 Back To Me, Fantasia (NEW/1)
62 Play On, Carrie Underwood (49/43)
90 For Your Entertainment, Adam Lambert (84/40)
92 Leave This Town, Daughtry (78/59)
107 NOW 33, Various Artists (91/23)

Hot 100
32 If I Had You, Adam Lamber (32/10)
61 Undo It, Carrie Underwood (56/18)
74 Bittersweet, Fantasia (82/8)
75 September, Daughtry (80/4)

Hot 100 Airplay
50 Bittersweet, Fantasia (44/10)
52 If I Had You, Adam Lambert (58/4)
63 Undo It, Carrie Underwood (61/15)
69 September, Daughtry (75/2)

Hot Digital Songs
31 If I Had You, Adam Lambert (30/8)
72 Undo It, Carrie Underwood (60/17)

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

107 Comments

  1. From Pulse

    POP
    21 20 ADAM LAMBERT If I Had You 3796 3442 354 19.726
    +85 Spins
    +67 Bullet
    +0.288 AI

    #35 iTunes

    HAC
    24 21 ADAM LAMBERT If I Had You 1053 847 206 5.049
    +21 Spins
    +1 Bullet
    +0.148 AI

    POP
    51 49 DAVID ARCHULETA Something ‘Bout Love 357 316 41 0.868

    +6 Spins
    -6 Bullet
    +0.003 AI

    POP
    48 43 DAUGHTRY September 647 487 160 2.191

  2. Fantastic update for IIHY!!! Love that AI in both formats. If it holds off other songs, should be top 20 in hac and pop for the published chart because according to Pulse, Nickleback is going recurrent.

  3. Mediabase #’s for Danny

    37 33 DANNY GOKEY I Will Not Say Goodb… 739 709 30 3.887

  4. IIHY has had some tremendous updates the last few days. I has remained steady on iTunes but I think it will start to go up soon. I have noticed that sometimes it takes a while for increased spins to translate to sales. Hears hoping!

  5. Fantastic update for IIHY!!! Love that AI in both formats. If it holds off other songs, should be top 20 in hac and pop for the published chart because according to Pulse, Nickleback is going recurrent.

    Unless something really funky happens IIHY should end the week at least at 20, maybe even 19. the only song behind it of concern is Nelly and he is still over 400 spins behind. Unlikely to catch IIHY by sunday. Also, if Billionaire loses another spot it will go recurrent this week. Regardless, IIHY will be in the teens by early next week as it passes a few more songs in front of it. Of course its a holiday weekend and everything will be a little funky

  6. Regardless, IIHY will be in the teens by early next week as it passes a few more songs in front of it.

    Dare we hope for Top 15?

  7. Posting this from Idol Concert Sales thread.
    eywflyer:
    09/03/2010 at 9:05 am

    Couple new Glam Nation Tour boxscores posted this morning:

    8/26/2010 Adam Lambert, Allison Iraheta
    Roanoke Performing Arts Theatre, Roanoke, VA
    Outback Concerts
    1,987 / 2,000 99%
    $37.75 – $0
    $71,574

    8/19/2010 Adam Lambert, Orianthi, Allison Iraheta
    Cape Cod Melody Tent, Hyannis, MA
    (In-House Promotion) / Vincent Longo
    2,250 / 2,250 100%
    $28.50 – $45.50
    $70,710

    We now have 23 boxscores for GNT dates (plus a boxscore for Musikfest which was not officially advertised as GNT even though Adam did his full set there). Over 99% of available tickets were sold for those 24 dates, with 19 verified sellouts. Total gross for those 24 dates is over $2.6 million.

    Full GNT spreadsheet here: http://bit.ly/dtUNHE

  8. I think it might be harder now for us to get numbers for Idols that are below the Top 50. At least in some of the different formats. The person at Pulse that normally posts the updates for the country artists, has said that it looks like they won’t be getting mediabase updates anymore.

    And the person that normally posts the updates for songs ranked #51-#200 on the Pop chart, says that they aren’t able to access that information right now. They haven’t updated the thread for those numbers in two days.

    So we might not be able to get the updates for songs ranked between #51-#200 on the Country and pop charts anymore. (Maybe all the charts).

    Maybe this might be a long term thing or maybe it’s only temporary.

    Though we can still use allaccess to track the top 50 songs on mediabase in each format.

  9. i do not have a good understanding of what these charts mean but it seems to be that David As song is struggling and i’m baffled by that. anybody help me out on this one?

  10. Billboard Hot Country Songs

    I Will Not Say Goodbye

    TW LW Weeks on Chart
    33 35 9

  11. i do not have a good understanding of what these charts mean but it seems to be that David As song is struggling and i’m baffled by that. anybody help me out on this one?

    It does seem like Archie’s song is struggling a bit on the Pop chart. But as far as I know he hasn’t really hasn’t gotten much promotion yet from Jive for this single. I think if this single got more promotion from them, that will help him. Hopefully he will get more promotion from them and move up more.

  12. Over 99% of available tickets were sold for those 24 dates, with 19 verified sellouts

    Just awesome!

    21 20 ADAM LAMBERT If I Had You 3796 3442 354 19.726

    Yeah!!! I’m throwing glitter in the air, you guys just can’t see it.

    90 For Your Entertainment, Adam Lambert (84/40)

    WOOHOOOO 40 weeks!!!!

    I love all the good news today!

  13. Archie’s song is def struggling. David really only had one Top 40 hit off his debut album – Crush and even that didn’t break into the Top 10 on the Top 40 chart (even though it sold 2 million dls and was #2 on the BB Hot 100 chart.) His follow up single basically flopped. So Top 40 hasn’t been that kind to Archie since day one.

    For whatever reason Top 40 isn’t really that open to teen boys. Even Justin Bieber doesn’t get great radio play in that format. I think Radio Disney is probably the best place for Archie’s single to get played and I hope they start playing it soon.

  14. Here’s the HDD sales prediction:

    *Disturbed (Reprise) 150-160k
    *Now 35 (Capitol/EMI) 95-105k
    Katy Perry (Capitol/EMI) 85-95k
    Eminem (Shady/Aftermath/Interscope) 80-85k
    Fantasia (J/RMG) 38-42k
    *Lyfe Jennings (Asylum) 38-42k
    *Goo Goo Dolls (Warner Bros.) 33-37k
    *Heart (Sony Legacy) 27-30k
    *10 Years (Universal Republic) 20-23k
    Justin Bieber (Island/IDJ) 20-23k
    Usher (LaFace/JLG) 20-23k
    Kem (Universal Motown) 20-23k
    Lady Antebellum (Capitol Nashville/EMI) 20-23k
    *Ryan Bingham (Lost Highway) 18-21k
    Arcade Fire (Merge) 18-21k
    Camp Rock 2 (Walt Disney) 18-21k
    Ray Lamontagne (RCA/RMG) 18-21k
    *Debuts (9/2p)”

    While Fantasia is taking the usual 2nd week big drop, it looks like she’ll still have the #5 or #6 album of the week.

  15. For whatever reason Top 40 isn’t really that open to teen boys. Even Justin Bieber doesn’t get great radio play in that format. I think Radio Disney is probably the best place for Archie’s single to get played and I hope they start playing it soon.

    His second single made it up to just outside the Top 40 on Pop and got some regular spins (for a time) on Z100 so I think he does have support on Pop stations. Radio Disney not playing the new song is strange. It plays Allison Iraheta’s Don’t Waste the Pretty and the song is actually on their Top 30 Countdown. I suspect David is more popular with that audience than Allison. Question is, if Jive can get Don’t Waste the Pretty on Radio Disney, why can’t it get SBL?

  16. Kitwana:
    09/03/2010 at 12:57 pm
    Question is, if Jive can get Don’t Waste the Pretty on Radio Disney, why can’t it get SBL?

    The check hasn’t cleared yet or it isn’t coming. I 100% believe that radio is negotiated and bought by the labels whether in the form of cash or other favors.

  17. The check hasn’t cleared yet or it isn’t coming. I 100% believe that radio is negotiated and bought by the labels whether in the form of cash or other favors.

    So Jive will pay for Allison, Jordin and Kris but not for David?

  18. I think that DWTP had been in release for a pretty long time before Radio Disney started spinning it

  19. Awesome news for IIHY and the tour stats! IIHY is a fantastic song on the radio! I’ve heard it in DC and my car becomes a mini-dance party when it comes on :-) Love it!

  20. i do not have a good understanding of what these charts mean but it seems to be that David As song is struggling and i’m baffled by that. anybody help me out on this one?

    Well, I’m baffled by it in one way — he’s good and he’s cute and this seems like a good poppy song. But I’m not baffled by it in another way — his pop career has followed what seems to be a fairly common course with Idols: one song hits and then after that pop radio doesn’t play them much. …. I agree that it’s kind of a mystery why that happens (to him and to others) but that it does happen? Well, that’s more of a trend. Maybe the labels just don’t figure that most of the Idols have enough of a shot for great big sales or major longevity to promote their second and subsequent songs very hard. Who knows? Personally, I think pop is seen as a place that’s more for sex and rebellion and rough edges of some variety or other, and since a lot of the Idols don’t fit that mold, this may account for the problems there.

  21. Eh, Taylor Swift isn’t the least bit edgy but she’s a radio monster. The Jonas Brothers and Old School Miley were squeaky clean as hell when they had most of their hits. Jordin Sparks had multiple hits too, and she’s the queen of wholesome Idol teens. I don’t think he’s too clean… if anything, he’s too awkward. But I don’t even think it’s that really.

    I don’t think they’ve really worked this song yet. If its not even on Radio Disney yet I’m inclined to believe there is a holdup of some sort. So either he’s not a label priority (which doesn’t make too much sense, since his Christmas album outsold many of their regular albums LOL), or they haven’t really started pushing it yet. That, or PDs hate the song. Heh.

  22. Pushing pop songs to radio and then booking pbs with Celtic Woman just seems a contradiction to me. Who is their target market? This rollout is confusing.

  23. Didn’t David A’s Christmas album only sell like 200k?

    If it did, IMO, that is pretty good for a Christmas album. Especially when regular albums for some of the idols, haven’t sold that much.

  24. sr4mjc:
    09/03/2010 at 2:03 pm
    Pushing pop songs to radio and then booking pbs with Celtic Woman just seems a contradiction to me. Who is their target market? This rollout is confusing.

    ITA. I know no one likes my “brand” theme, but imo POP artists need a strong brand to sell, since most of the music is rather the same sounding. Right now, Bieber is hot, and I could see David possibly riding on that popularity with his new album. The Biebs also has a lot of R&B tie-ins though, with Usher, etc, and so maybe that’s the angle Archie’s team could have worked, lol.

    IMO – Archie works best as the sweet, innocent, teenage crush type in the pop scene – you can win over a lot of tweens with that angle. IDK, my marketing hat is on now, lol

  25. *Now 35 (Capitol/EMI) 95-105k

    After an Idol free Now 34, Now 35 features a song by Carrie Underwood (Undo It).

  26. Didn’t David A’s Christmas album only sell like 200k?

    Yeah, but that was more than 80% of the regular albums they released last year. LOL And it wasn’t bad for a Christmas album with not a whole lot of promo. So I don’t see why they wouldn’t push his stuff… it seems like a no brainer, since he obviously can sell. Didn’t he just go around the country getting thousands to screaming teens to his book signings? So I don’t think they’d shelve him, but what do I know? I’m just guessing here.

    Pushing pop songs to radio and then booking pbs with Celtic Woman just seems a contradiction to me. Who is their target market? This rollout is confusing.

    Does management do the TV booking or Jive? That could explain some of the disconnect. I agree its confusing. I mean songs flop all the time, so its not that part. Although I think this song is good. Its the little things like no Radio Disney and a general lack of evidence of a big effort that makes me think they just haven’t started pushing it yet.

    IMO – Archie works best as the sweet, innocent, teenage crush type in the pop scene – you can win over a lot of tweens with that angle. IDK, my marketing hat is on now, lol

    Well, that’s what he’s been doing, and its been working for him so far… LOL. I actually think there is a market for wholesome young entertainers out there, hence the acts I mentioned earlier. I’ll worry about this kid when I think Jive is actually trying. We’ll see soon enough.

  27. tinawina:
    09/03/2010 at 2:13 pm

    Yeah, but that was more than 80% of the regular albums they released last year. LOL And it wasn’t bad for a Christmas album with not a whole lot of promo. So I don’t see why they wouldn’t push his stuff… it seems like a no brainer, since he obviously can sell. Didn’t he just go around the country getting thousands to screaming teens to his book signings? So I don’t think they’d shelve him, but what do I know? I’m just guessing here.

    Maybe I’m just jaded. It looks like Archie’s handlers have him following Clay’s path like a template. Debut album with one hit followed by an unsupported single. Christmas album, book, book tour, Christmas tour, 3rd album with unsupported lead single and then, will there be a 4th underpromoted and unsupported album that they see as pure profit as long as he sells a few hundred thousand? I mean why spend promo money when they can make a profit off his existing fans and they can waste/throw money at Adam and Lee instead?

  28. Yeah, but that was more than 80% of the regular albums they released last year. LOL And it wasn’t bad for a Christmas album with not a whole lot of promo.

    Yes. You can’t complain about those kinds of numbers for a Christmas album. And remember those Christmas albums will get a new life every Christmas. And super cheap to produce. They are like a gift that keeps on giving to the labels.

    Does management do the TV booking or Jive?

    Usually that’s management’s job. We are in summer hiatus, though and they usually save the TV performance for when the album drops (not the debut single).

    If you had to ask me (and I’m totally speculating here), I think the PD’s did not have a positive reaction to his latest song. Something’s just not working. I have a wild theory that the title is just too close to Beiber’s “Somebody to Love”. LOL. Two songs by tween phenoms with similar titles? Who knows with these PDs? It might be too much for them.

    I’m just listening to Archie’s “Something About Love” and I find the song pretty generic and hookless (and I dislike auto-tune effects on somebody with that good of a voice. Leave those for Kanye and Ke$ha who can’t sing (and just fix the Swifter-picker-upper so we can enjoy her hooks without cringing). I can see why PDs could use a lame-o excuse to dismiss it. The song just doesn’t grab and Archie doesn’t have enough of a radio history for them to go to the mat for the song just because it’s him. Bad Single Choice! Jive, no cookies for you.

    I’m sure that Archie will get another bite at the apple. They’ll likely drop a new single before the album release if we don’t see some better traction on SAL.

  29. the christmas special on pbs has nothing to do with the pop cd rollout. the christmas cd sold well its first year, and jive along with fans and a lot of industry peeps feel it will continue to sell well going forward, so this special with the celtic women imo is an excellent vehicle to promo the christmas cd during the holiday season for additional sales. the pop cd should benefit from the holiday, so if all goes well, it is a win/win for 2 cd’s. for david fans, there is no disconnect here, as he has both the teen demographic as well as an adult demographic firmly in his base, and he has to walk a fine line between the demands of these two, lol… for the most part, he keeps both factions satisfied, and the christmas pbs special is definitely one that both will enjoy…

  30. It looks like Archie’s handlers have him following Clay’s path like a template. Debut album with one hit followed by an unsupported single. Christmas album, book, book tour, Christmas tour, 3rd album with unsupported lead single and then, will there be a 4th underpromoted and unsupported album that they see as pure profit as long as he sells a few hundred thousand?

    Clay did all that stuff in the same order? Spooky.

    If you had to ask me (and I’m totally speculating here), I think the PD’s did not have a positive reaction to his latest song. Something’s just not working.

    I agree that is a possibility. I guess we’ll know if Jive switches songs in a few weeks. I think you are right that they wouldn’t just walk away if that’s the case, they’d try something else.

    I do think the song is cute though.

    the christmas special on pbs has nothing to do with the pop cd rollout.

    The celtic thing is a christmas special? That makes sense! Thanks for shedding some light there, ggdoors!

  31. I mean why spend promo money when they can make a profit off his existing fans and they can waste/throw money at Adam and Lee instead?

    what does Jive’s promotion of Archie have anything to day with RCA? Besides, didn’t Clay say himself that he’s finally being himself making Tired and True? so what’s the complaining? he’s just never a radio pop star material. I guess the label knew all along even though claymates always dreamed about this clay being pop superstar thing. Anyway, I think he and the label made most of it considering his limited talents and music direction.

  32. Agree with whoever said 200K is a good number for a Xmas album. Remember, they get to sell it again every holiday season.

    I was a big Archie fan but I’m not interested in him as a Pop artist. I think when the Pop thing dies down he’ll make an album in Spanish and kill it. Archie is really too vanilla to make it as Pop star these days.
    So I kind of understand why Jive isn’t giving him the full court press.

    Also Archie is NOT managed by 19 so he doesn’t get alot of the grade A promo. They save that for Idols they get a manager’s cut from.

  33. AllenTX:
    09/03/2010 at 2:38 pm

    what does Jive’s promotion of Archie have anything to day with RCA?

    They are not signed to Jive or RCA other than as a secondary label and distribution deal. Their primary label is 19 Recordings and 19 decides who gets what and when. When you look at it that way all of the Idols on the various Sony labels are played like pawns in a big chess game that is played to make American Idol the TV show look good and the artists are at their mercy.

    Bashing Clay isn’t going to help Archie and as jpfan said “Archie is NOT managed by 19 so he doesn’t get alot of the grade A promo.”

  34. All teen pop stars are vanilla though. I’m not a teen so I can’t say whether Archie will make it or not as teen pop star.

  35. I mean why spend promo money when they can make a profit off his existing fans and they can waste/throw money at Adam and Lee instead?

    Clay’s problem, IMO, is that the label just didn’t see him appealing very far outside of his core fan base. I’m not saying that he couldn’t. I think that’s what his label saw. I think (I don’t know this, I just think that they think this) that the label did not see how they could market his style and sound outside of the easy listening type audience. An audience that would be content with covers and other milquetoast originals. Pair that with an enthusiastic fan base who would buy whatever he produced and they did see that there was no sense in investing in him. They could make money without investing (which is something the labels like quite a lot).

    It’s all about opportunity costs. As the CEO once explained to my division of the company that was making a 20% profit. If another division could take the same investment money and make a 25% profit, there is a good argument to give all the investment money to the other division and sell-off/close my division. At first I was shocked, but then I remembered that it’s his job to make money for his shareholders. Of course there are other arguments like diversifying your company and not putting all your eggs in one basket.

    But, let’s take that back to label finances. If the label thinks that they can make say a 100% profit on Clay if they spend 100K on his album and only a 20% more on Clay if they spend another 100K on Clay, maybe they shouldn’t spend the extra 100K. Laws of diminishing return kick in. Maybe they should just make five 100K albums instead a fewer number of more expensive albums.

    Meanwhile, they may think that they will make no profit on theoretical Artist A if they spend only 100K. They may think that he needs hit song writers, fancy videos and appearances on award shows. If they spend 400k on him, maybe he makes them a 40% profit. The type of market being aimed for expects expensive investments and you can’t half-a$$ it, but if you hit it big, you will do very well indeed.

    Or maybe if they spend 400K breaking Artist B, he will be a money spinner for them for years (and then they only have to spend a 100K from there on in).

    Every time I see fans saying we have to whatever their favourite puts out, I always wondering if they are teaching the label the right lesson. They think they are teaching the label that there is a lot of demand for that artist, but the labels might be learning that people will buy whatever junk that person puts out so why put in any effort?

  36. “Archie is NOT managed by 19 so he doesn’t get alot of the grade A promo.”

    Ok, so are Adam and Lee signed by 19? This stuff confuses me.

  37. there have been indications the song has received very positive feedback from a lot of pd’s, and imo it is no more or less generic than the majority of other top 40 songs currently being played, so what the strategy is or isn’t naturally is up for speculation. i’m not sweating the sitch at all, i guess because david is so talented, will always have a large audience for that talent regardless whether he lives up to the expectations others have of him top 40 wise, and he is young – time is on his side, and if it takes time for more things to gel and solidify for him, then so be it. other idol did not and do not have the luxury of time to continue growing artistically, so i look forward to many bites at various apples for him in his career… i say just sit back and continue to watch the process play out – there is still plenty of time for this song to begin gathering strength. and if it doesn’t, then it doesn’t – that’s life, move on to the next single. he isn’t going anywhere, and neither are his fans.

  38. Right now, Bieber is hot, and I could see David possibly riding on that popularity with his new album. The Biebs also has a lot of R&B tie-ins though, with Usher, etc, and so maybe that’s the angle Archie’s team could have worked, lol.

    Believe it or not, I think Bieber being hot right now may be one of the best things that happened to David. This is not because David can copy Bieber’s style (which he would NEVER do) but because Bieber’s style provides a stark contrast to David’s and I think emphasizes how much better a singer David is. If his handlers play things correctly, they could recreate something of the Britney v. Christina battle from the late 1990’s. Before Christina went through her “stripper” phase to avoid being the next Celine Dion, there was a nice contrast between the styles and talents of these two. We will never know, of course, what would have happened if Christina decided to stick with the pure and innocent version of herself. She may have ended up like another Celine, not that this is a bad thing.

  39. Idols are signed to 19R and some are also signed to a management contract by 19M. (I think I have my initials correct).

    The ones signed by 19M get TV more promo because the company makes more profit off their success. Idols signed by 19M: Daughtry, Cook, Carrie, Adam, Idols not managed by 19 currrently: Gokey, Archie, Jordin Sparks, Kelly Clarkson. The key is the videos they show during the Idol tour. They NEVER show any videos by Idols not managed by 19.

  40. They are not signed to Jive or RCA other than as a secondary label and distribution deal. Their primary label is 19 Recordings and 19 decides who gets what and when.

    Do we know for sure that is true though? I’ve heard that 19 is heavily involved in the first album but that the label pretty much takes over on subsequent albums, and 19 just 1. contributes some cash to the recording process and 2. collects points.

    I can’t see 19R being a big enough operation to control the marketing and radio pushes of multiple artists with completely different styles of music. That makes no sense to me.

    Plus, why would all those people spend all that time complaining about Clive Davis if he wasn’t the one in control? He doesn’t work for 19.

  41. Archie may be too old to be a teen pop star — he’s going to turn 20 in December :)

    j/k

  42. jpfan

    Kris is also signed to 19M — he has the same manager as Chris Daughtry

  43. The ones signed by 19 get TV more promo because the company makes more profit off their success. Idols signed by 19M: Daughtry, Carrie, Adam, Idols not signed by 19M: Gokey, Archie, Jordin Sparks

    19M also managed Kris and Allison the last we heard. The publicity releases also seem to indicate that they manage Lee.

    19M also doesn’t manage Kelly or Fantasia (and lots of others).

  44. The ones signed by 19 get TV more promo because the company makes more profit off their success. Idols signed by 19M: Daughtry, Carrie, Adam, Idols not signed by 19M: Gokey, Archie, Jordin Sparks

    Ok, starting to grasp it…but is 19 the same as 19M? Or is it 19 and then your promo budget depends on the letter after 19. So the M in this case in 19M means money. R means you are going to be operating in the red? I know that’s simplistic, but it’s easy for me to keep it clear.

    Also, what letter do Kris and Cook have after their 19?

    ETA-I was too slow with my post and now from reading what came before I can now see my simplistic theory is shot what with Allison being with 19 (money)!

  45. 19R doesn’t even have its own radio promo department, FYI. I don’t get how they can control Jive or RCA’s radio promo.

  46. 19M manages alot of Idols (I didn’t want to list everyone), Pickler, Kris, Allison (I think Ruben as well). The only other people they manage with any real visibility are the Beckhams – David and Posh. Otherwise their bread & butter are the Idols. So 19E produces American Idol, 19M signs contestants as management. It’s a nice racket situation for Simon Fuller. I still don’t really understand what 19R does.

    Back in the day supposedly the management contract was terrible and folks couldn’t say no to it. I think things have improved these days but who knows. They keep the Idol contracts private.

  47. Kirsten:
    09/03/2010 at 2:48 pm
    Every time I see fans saying we have to whatever their favourite puts out, I always wondering if they are teaching the label the right lesson. They think they are teaching the label that there is a lot of demand for that artist, but the labels might be learning that people will buy whatever junk that person puts out so why put in any effort?

    This observation applies just as much to the Kei$has and Beibers of the music industry as it does to any Idol but it was a masterful slam on Aiken so congrats on that. Your POV begs the question that if fans of their favorite artist, whether an Idol or not, didn’t buy their products out of fear that the label will get cheap on promo, what value is created when the label sees it flop?

  48. 19R doesn’t even have its own radio promo department, FYI. I don’t get how they can control Jive or RCA’s radio promo.

    Exactly.

    They have relationships with a network of songwriters and cash. It suggests that if they are involved with anything, its album production.

  49. My guess is that 19R signs Idols to recording contracts w/labels and makes a % off the sales of their album. But 19R isn’t a record label itself.

    19R def does something because when a season is over Simon Fuller always puts out some inflated PR about how the new Idol signed by 19R can walk on water etc. And as noted they have a stable of songwriters that get used on every Idol album.

  50. The song just doesn’t grab and Archie doesn’t have enough of a radio history for them to go to the mat for the song just because it’s him. Bad Single Choice! Jive, no cookies for you.

    I wish nothing but the best for DA, but I’m in 100 percent agreement. It’s mildly cute, but it goes. absolutely. nowhere. And the vocoding is ludicrous.

    I’ve heard that 19 is heavily involved in the first album but that the label pretty much takes over on subsequent albums, and 19 just 1. contributes some cash to the recording process and 2. collects points.

    I can’t see 19R being a big enough operation to control the marketing and radio pushes of multiple artists with completely different styles of music. That makes no sense to me.

    Nor me. You hear too much about Sony employees getting involved for them to be distribution window dressing.

    And as noted they have a stable of songwriters that get used on every Idol album.

    The stable songwriters work with a lot of artists under the label umbrella. Hodges, Maloy, and Kelly have tweeted a lot about non-Idol projects. I suspect they have their contracts through the Sony label and the 19 relationship is incidental to that.

  51. Most of the Idols are not only signed to the Idol record label (19Recordings) but they are also signed to Simon Cowell’s label (Syco) for International recording and distribution rights. That is before they are farmed out to one of the Sony labels.

  52. 19R is just like some other small labels parters with the big label which they mostly are just involved with production side and let the major label handle the distribution and promotion. 19R is probably only heavily involved with the idols’ debut albums production.

  53. 19 just 1. contributes some cash to the recording process and 2. collects points

    I think they must have some influence on the albums also. Ryan Tedder for ex. shows up on every Idol album lately. I’m 100% sure one of his songs will be on albums by Lee and Crystal. I don’t think songwriters are exclusive to 19 but they def have a stable they use over and over.

    Anyway I think S10 marks the end of the contract with Sony. Isn’t Idol partnering with Universal now? So no more RCA/Jive signings.

  54. I think that it was David Cook who mentioned that 19 was very much involved with the first album, but not with the second.

    Anyway I think S10 marks the end of the contract with Sony. Isn’t Idol partnering with Universal now? So no more RCA/Jive signings.

    And I am wondering whether Sony will have any incentive to keep the idols going after the first album unless they make a lot of money for them.
    After all, the contract went to a competitor, they have reasons to not want idol to do well.

  55. What idols are signed to syco, Caden?? I know that all of Adam’s international stuff has been handled by the international branches of Sony. The international cds are distributed ny Sony Japan, Sony UK etc. I don’t know about the other idols, but it sure doesn’t seem like rca/Sony haven’t been involved.

  56. I think that it was David Cook who mentioned that 19 was very much involved with the first album, but not with the second.

    This really makes alot of sense. Simon Fuller & Co. just want the debut albums to do well to support the Idol brand. After that the older alum are more on their own and the attention goes to the new season’s signees.

  57. Springboard, there you are!! I’ve been without my laptop and haven’t been able to post chart updates and itunes updates from my phone. Was hoping you’d be able to.

  58. I wish nothing but the best for DA, but I’m in 100 percent agreement. It’s mildly cute, but it goes. absolutely. nowhere. And the vocording is ludicrous.

    It’s hard to tell what will grab the public. When I heard For Your Entertainment, I thought it would quickly soar to #1, especially with Gaga being so popular. However, so far, it is Adam’s lowest charting single. I happen to think SBL is also a great song but hopefully it will not be another FYE.

  59. The major labels cannot buy broadcast airplay and the cannot use independent promoters as middlemen to do it for them anymore. Sony settled with NY in 2005 — http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/8700936 Cost Sony $10 million.

    Under the new rules and settlements, promoting a song to radio is more complicated now and the radio station needs to want something the label can legally give them. So, in Adam’s case, they get concert M&Gs, interviews and promo tickets to a “sold out” tour. Some artists are promoted with free product — on air CD giveaways — or other promotions — like provided prizes for radio station contests.

    I do not know how the older 19R-Sony contracts were set up but for AI8 Sony is responsible for Radio Promo, not 19R. 19R doesn’t have the expertise or team to do that. RCA Record Group has one of the best in the business.

    The record business is a tough business right now and investment goes to the artists who can make money for the label, who work within the major label system well and who know how to promote effectively. Carrie, Daughtry, Kelly and Adam have shown they know how to create commercial product and have show that they know how to promote it. Other Idol alums, have not worked well within the label system and have been more successful as indie artists — Taylor Hicks.

    Specifically on Archie — I agree that he seems to have a brand or market positioning problem. Pop music requires an appealling and easily understood personality — Bieber = cute teen heart throb, Ke$ha = bad girl. What is Archie’s brand position? If he is in the Bieber teen pop space, why put out a Christmas album like an AC artist would put out? Plus, it is compounded by the fact that he is 20 now and needs to transition to an adult performer.

    Finally, regarding Christmas albums — the English language version of Bocelli’s “My Christmas” sold 2.2 million copies in the US in 2009 — it was the second best selling album released in 2009, only behind SuBo. So the idea that Christmas albums can’t sell doesn’t make sense to me. AC and Holiday are two of the CD genres that are still very robust. My bet is the Jive gambled they could have a platinum Christmas album for Archie, like RCA had with Clay. It seems like a good bet but there is usually only one big Christmas album in the US and Universal – Bocelli/David Foster had it in 2009.

  60. Tedder had a song on Adams and Kelly cd. We know he may have worked with Cook, right? All 3 are rca artists. He had no song on Kris, Allison or Jordin did he? Seems like maybe a relationship with RCA vs 19 to me. Especially since Tedder has songs on other rca artists like Beyonce.

  61. It’s hard to tell what will grab the public. When I heard For Your Entertainment, I thought it would quickly soar to #1, especially with Gaga being so popular. However, so far, it is Adam’s lowest charting single. I happen to think SBL is also a great song but hopefully it will not be another FYE.

    Gaga had nothing to do with the single FYE — it was written by Claude Kelly and produced by Dr. Luke. Gaga wrote the song “Fever” on the FYE album. FYE received no radio play, so it’s understandable that sales are lower than WWFM and IIHY.

  62. CindyM, here’s the itunes chart

    Singles 09/03/2010
    #35 ADAM LAMBERT If I Had You
    #50 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Undo It
    #83 DAUGHTRY September
    #134 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want from Me
    #215 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Cowboy Casanova
    #324 DAUGHTRY Life After You
    #341 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Before He Cheats
    #344 FANTASIA Bittersweet
    #364 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Temporary Home
    #383 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Last Name
    #389 KELLIE PICKLER Makin’ Me Fall In Love Again
    #406 KRIS ALLEN The Truth
    #426 KELLY CLARKSON Already Gone
    #433 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying
    #590 CARRIE UNDERWOOD All-American Girl
    #670 DAUGHTRY No Surprise
    #836 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Jesus, Take the Wheel
    #921 KELLY CLARKSON My Life Would Suck Without You
    #924 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Just a Dream
    #931 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Mama’s Song
    #997 DAVID ARCHULETA Something ‘Bout Love

    Albums 09/03/2010
    #26 FANTASIA Back to Me
    #31 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Play On
    #244 DAUGHTRY Leave This Town (Bonus Track Version)
    #252 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Carnival Ride
    #516 ADAM LAMBERT For Your Entertainment
    #518 ADAM LAMBERT For Your Entertainment (Deluxe Version)
    #614 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Some Hearts
    #742 DAUGHTRY Leave This Town
    #855 ADAM LAMBERT If I Had You (Remixed)
    #879 DAUGHTRY Daughtry
    #988 KRIS ALLEN Kris Allen
    #995 DANNY GOKEY My Best Days

  63. And I am wondering whether Sony will have any incentive to keep the idols going after the first album unless they make a lot of money for them. After all, the contract went to a competitor, they have reasons to not want idol to do well.

    Sony never had a reason to support any artist who doesn’t have the potential to make money for them in the future — Idol or not. (The best predictor of future performance is past performance.) As far as I can tell, they may have given an artist who was successful than had a mediocre follow-up a second chance — but sustained support without selling? Not likely.

    But I can’t imagine that Sony would shoot themselves in the foot and not promote an Ex-Idol just because they do not have future Idols. Likewise, 19 has every incentive to support all the successful Ex-Idols to prove Idol has legitimacy and not to disenfranchise Idol fans. Can you imagine Sony not putting out the next Carrie album or Idol not having Carrie on?

  64. Caden:
    09/03/2010 at 3:18 pm
    Most of the Idols are not only signed to the Idol record label (19Recordings) but they are also signed to Simon Cowell’s label (Syco) for International recording and distribution rights. That is before they are farmed out to one of the Sony labels.

    What is the source of your information? I’ve never read or heard that SYCO has anything to with the idols’ international rights. And given that Simon Fuller and Simon Cowell are essentially in competition with each other (AI vs. X-Factor) in terms of TV shows and generating new recording artists, it seems unlikely to me that Cowell has his hand in the idol pot.

  65. This observation applies just as much to the Kei$has and Beibers of the music industry as it does to any Idol but it was a masterful slam on Aiken so congrats on that.

    A) It wasn’t intended as a slam on Aiken, masterful or otherwise. Aiken is neither the first nor the last Idol to have people posting “I hate such-and-such, but I’ll buy it anyway to show support” or better yet having Queen Bee fans chiding the faithful that they better buy whatever and phone the radio stations to support the song because “If we don’t support it, who will?” “We can tell who the TRUE fans are!”

    B) The hardcore fans of Ke$ha and Beiber do probably buy every piece of crap they put out. The trick is that they also get people who don’t even know their names to buy their songs too (and currently, the crap they are producing is current).

  66. I highly doubt that Jive thought that David’s Christmas album would go platinum. I see nothing to indicate that. It was barely promoted. If they wanted it to go platinum they would’ve promoted it more. Andrea Bocelli’s Christmas album was heavily promoted. He had a PBS special, was on Oprah, as well as many other things.

  67. When discussing label support for artists, I think it is important to factor in the 360 Music Deal that was pioneered by the Canadian Edgar Bronfman. With the overwhelming availability of free music, the record labels now make deals to get a cut from anything that uses their artist’s brand—-merch, endorsements, etc. Therefore, selling music is only one part of the profits, and becoming less and less as time goes on. This deal sucks for the artists, but is great for the record labels. That is why some artists are trying so hard to brand themselves.

  68. Gaga had nothing to do with the single FYE — it was written by Claude Kelly and produced by Dr. Luke. Gaga wrote the song “Fever” on the FYE album. FYE received no radio play, so it’s understandable that sales are lower than WWFM and IIHY.

    I thought the music video and the AMA performance had a Gaga like feel. At any rate, I think that Claude Kelly and Dr. Luke have an even better reputation of generating hits than Gaga, so again,it is hard to predict what will grab the public.

    I agree that FYE received minimal radio play. I guess the PD’s did not like it for some reason. Bad single choice RCA.

  69. Caden:
    09/03/2010 at 3:18 pm
    Most of the Idols are not only signed to the Idol record label (19Recordings) but they are also signed to Simon Cowell’s label (Syco) for International recording and distribution rights. That is before they are farmed out to one of the Sony labels.

    I can’t find one former American Idol has been signed to Syco. But Syco has a strategic agreement with Sony UK similar to 19R’s agreement with Sony Music Entertainment.

    Gaga had nothing to do with the single FYE — it was written by Claude Kelly and produced by Dr. Luke. Gaga wrote the song “Fever” on the FYE album. FYE received no radio play, so it’s understandable that sales are lower than WWFM and IIHY.

    Actually, FYE did get some Top 40 airplay just not widespread or sustained in the US. RCA actively started promoting WWFM in mid-November and that appears to have been the primarily radio single last Fall.

    And it also had moderate sales of the digital track, ringtone and video — in the US.

  70. i have question,how katy perry,justin bieber,kesha get huge radio air play and other artist but not american idol contest?i heard from my country:kesha,bieber alot and enrique but not american idols.

    i think this is stupid,they dont have talent but someone like talented american idols dont airplay them much.

  71. i think fye single was shocking single,i heard some said its about rape but i saw teenager from youtube dance to it and i fall in love with mv and single(fye)but radio thougt is risque and amas make it more dangrous,thats why they didnt play it.

  72. Ryan Tedder for ex. shows up on every Idol album lately. I’m 100% sure one of his songs will be on albums by Lee and Crystal.

    LOL! Crystal singing a Tedder song would be priceless!

    The stable songwriters work with a lot of artists under the label umbrella. Hodges, Maloy, and Kelly have tweeted a lot about non-Idol projects. I suspect they have their contracts through the Sony label and the 19 relationship is incidental to that.

    I don’t think those people are signed to 19 or anything. LOL. I just mean 19 clearly have a relationship with a handful of writers and call on those same people every time to work on Idol albums. I don’t think they are all signed to Sony for publishing either.

    Tedder had a song on Adams and Kelly cd. We know he may have worked with Cook, right? All 3 are rca artists. He had no song on Kris, Allison or Jordin did he?

    He did something for Jordin. Battlefield!

    When discussing label support for artists, I think it is important to factor in the 360 Music Deal

    It has been widely speculated that Idols don’t have 360 deals. If true, that might be one of the few good things about being trapped in the idol contracts. :)

    I highly doubt that Jive thought that David’s Christmas album would go platinum.

    Yeah, he wasn’t a big enough star for that. They didn’t spend that kind of money on it either. Aside from the one or 2 christmas albums a year that blow up, 200K is a pretty decent number IMO.

  73. CindyM

    I remember seeing an article last year that said Tedder had written something for Kris (not with him, just for him). But if he did, it obviously didn’t make the album. He’ll likely be asked about writing for Lee and/or Crystal, as well. And of course, One Republic played a couple gigs this summer with Kris.

    So I don’t know if it has anything to do with RCA vs. Jive. OneRepublic is signed to Interscope (or at least that’s who released their last album).

  74. Q3:
    09/03/2010 at 3:55 pm

    Actually, FYE did get some Top 40 airplay just not widespread or sustained in the US. RCA actively started promoting WWFM in mid-November and that appears to have been the primarily radio single last Fall.

    And it also had moderate sales of the digital track, ringtone and video — in the US.

    I didn’t realize that FYE got any notable radio play — it couldn’t have been much because Adam was already performing WWFM in TV appearances in late November (post-AMAs). And yes, sales of FYE have been respectable — Brian Mansfield reported 2 weeks ago that the FYE single had sold 333,000 to date.

  75. can i just say that you guys are AWESOME? i asked a question about Archie’s new song and got a plethora of information. right now my basic conclusion is that little David does ok for himself: he has had decent success despite how little his management does for him. thanks, guys.

  76. LindaT:
    09/03/2010 at 3:42 pm

    Caden:
    09/03/2010 at 3:18 pm
    Most of the Idols are not only signed to the Idol record label (19Recordings) but they are also signed to Simon Cowell’s label (Syco) for International recording and distribution rights. That is before they are farmed out to one of the Sony labels.

    What is the source of your information? I’ve never read or heard that SYCO has anything to with the idols’ international rights. And given that Simon Fuller and Simon Cowell are essentially in competition with each other (AI vs. X-Factor) in terms of TV shows and generating new recording artists, it seems unlikely to me that Cowell has his hand in the idol pot.

    Simon Cowell’s Biography:

    During his time at BMG, Simon has sold over 150 million records and has had over 70 No. 1 records in America and the UK. His artists include Westlife – whose first seven singles all went to UK No. 1, opera quartet Il Divo, whose first two albums have collectively sold 20 million copies worldwide and Leona Lewis whose album Spirit became biggest selling debut album of all time in 2007. His music label SyCo Music has also sold over 50 million American Idol themed albums including those of Grammy Award winner Kelly Clarkson, Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood.

    https://secure.xfactor.itv.com/2010/judges-and-hosts/profile/tag_1563.htm

  77. Have the idols collectively even sold 50 million albums internationally? We know he doesn’t have deals here in the us with them. Sounds like nothing but a bit of puffery from X-Factor.

  78. Ryan Tedder for ex. shows up on every Idol album lately. I’m 100% sure one of his songs will be on albums by Lee and Crystal.

    Tedder had a song on Adams and Kelly cd. We know he may have worked with Cook, right? All 3 are rca artists. He had no song on Kris, Allison or Jordin did he?

    He did something for Jordin. Battlefield!

    He also wrote for Blake’s debut and had the title track (they didn’t give it any label support so why bother?) on Clay’s 4th CD “On My Way Here”. If there isn’t a deal between 19R and Tedder, I’ll eat my hat. The Tedder songs are invariably the first released single on most idol albums.

  79. CindyM:
    09/03/2010 at 4:24 pm

    Have the idols collectively even sold 50 million albums internationally?

    The Bio didn’t say Internationally but just between Carrie, Clay and Kelly, they have sold more than 25 million albums.

  80. He also wrote for Blake’s debut and had the title track (they didn’t give it any label support so why bother?) on Clay’s 4th CD “On My Way Here”. If there isn’t a deal between 19R and Tedder, I’ll eat my hat. The Tedder songs are invariably the first released single on most idol albums.

    You know, I don’t know if its a formal deal. Its probably something more like ***asstalking alert** 19R had a lot of money to throw around, went out and threw a lot of work at the top pop hack songwriters hitmakers, and after a while figured out which ones they like to work with the best, so perhaps they have a shortlist of people who can churn out crap suitable material quickly, and maybe have a standard rate negotiated with them or something. So David Hodges is flexible, works fast and is good at producing album filler decent songs that occasionally hit big on radio, they know how he works and he knows how they work, so they call him a lot. Over time, 19 becomes a reliable customer for these guys and eventually they give 19 favorable treatment. Does that make sense to anyone but me? I dunno.

  81. tuti, you are right. most of the “artists” on the radio are not as talented as american idol singers. don’t really know what the criteria is anymore to be on the radio these days….

  82. Thisu is what you quoted Caden:

    .

    His music label SyCo Music has also sold over 50 million American Idol themed albums including those of Grammy Award winner Kelly Clarkson, Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood.

    It specifically says American Idol and none of the idols are signed to Syco domestically, including the 3 listed. If you look at the imports of Kelly’s albums on Amazon, don’t see Syco listed there either.

  83. If you look on the back cover of their albums the Syco logo is there. It is a black dot with a white S through it or a white dot with a black S through it.

  84. Eh, Taylor Swift isn’t the least bit edgy but she’s a radio monster. The Jonas Brothers and Old School Miley were squeaky clean as hell when they had most of their hits.

    Well, here’s my cynical and not entirely tongue-in-cheek view: I think that all of these people still fill the “sex” part of the equation. They are the ones that the companies market for the purpose of providing the young and innocent someone they can envision as boinkable, without, you know, really overtly suggesting that they are. And, with TS, for example, someone that the young and innocent females can envision as *themselves* only more boinkable. Whereas the Archies and Kris Allens and Elliotts and ultimately Jordins of the world don’t look to companies as if they’d be as good a candidates for that kind of innocent-boinking imagery as the others, for whatever reason. I simply don’t believe that just *any* image of a person will be supported by music labels as a pop star, if that person puts out high-quality pop music. I think the companies make what they hope are *very* shrewd judgments about whether the image is right — and while the image doesn’t *have* to be edgy (although I think that is one of the categories, for the older and less squeaky-clean images), I’m utterly convinced that “sex object” or “fantasy-me-as-potential-sex-object” is part of the image they’re promoting in pop to everybody. It’s just that bubblegummers need less threatening sex images. And thus we need the Jonases and TS!

  85. Caden:
    09/03/2010 at 4:42 pm
    If you look on the back cover of their albums the Syco logo is there. It is a black dot with a white S through it or a white dot with a black S through it.

    If this relationship with the idols existed, it appears to have ended. There are no American Idols listed in the Syco website. Also, I have the EU version of the FYE album, and the only logos on it are Sony Music, RCA and 19 — no Syco.

  86. The Tedder songs are invariably the first released single on most idol albums

    Which ones would that be? Already Gone was the third single off AIEW and if it is realeased would be the third on FYE.

  87. Which ones would that be? Already Gone was the third single off AIEW and if it is realeased would be the third on FYE.

    Technically 4th ;)

  88. the question is how the radio works?the record label pay them or another reason?

    adam have huge potential, i loved his 20 century boy.if maybe he write hes own song with more time in smart way maybe he can sale more.in my country we have american idol but the not famous.

  89. His music label SyCo Music has also sold over 50 million American Idol themed albums including those of Grammy Award winner Kelly Clarkson, Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood.

    Wow! What a mess of companies. I pieced part of it together. But the punchline is Syco Records is a way for Cowell to get a royalty on part of Idol records. And he has not active role in any Idol alums career or UK record promotion. But I am in awe at his ability to make a buck on everything he touches!

    Yes, Cowell owns and operates Syco but that is a separate company from Syco Records. Syco Records is part of Sony UK. Syco (or Simco Limited) is Cowell’s company — and he operates Syco Music.

    Cowell founded Syco Records, but sold it to Sony in 2002 and it operates as part of Sony UK/Columbia. Cowell gets lots of money from the Syco/Idol deal but apparently has no active role with Syco Records. He has an active role in other artist’s careers who are part of Syco Music like Leona Lewis and SuBo.

    In 2002, Cowell had the right to Idol UK recordings and Fuller owned part of the show and ran 19. In 2004 they had the infamous falling out and reached a settlement. In 2005, Cowell and Fuller settle their dispute and signed a deal that gave Syco the UK distribution rights to certain Idol product. But Simon Cowell didn’t own majority interest in Syco Records, Sony BMG did.

    Cowell’s company had the rights to UK releases of American Idol recordings. Here is what may be the agreement — http://contracts.onecle.com/ckx/american-idol.lic.2005.11.28.shtml

    The Syco Music artists are Westlife, Five, Robson & Jerome, Zig & Zag, Girl Thing, Will Young, Gareth Gates, Six, Il Divo, Steve Brookstein, Shayne Ward, Journey South, Paul Potts, Ray Quinn, Leona Lewis

    The Idols are released on Sony UK labels, a few examples…

    For Your Entertainment UK release
    # Label: RCA Records Label
    # Copyright: (P) 2009 19 Recordings Ltd. under exclusive license to RCA/JIVE Label Group, a unit of Sony Music Entertainment

    Breakaway UK
    # Audio CD (18 July 2005)
    # Number of Discs: 1
    # Label: RCA
    # ASIN: B00095L95Q

    Thankful UK — S = S records the predecessor to Syco
    * Audio CD (8 Sep 2003)
    * Number of Discs: 1
    * Label: S
    * ASIN: B0000AKVHN

    Measure of a Man UK
    # Audio CD (10 Nov 2003)
    # Number of Discs: 1
    # Format: Import
    # Label: Sony BMG Imports
    # ASIN: B0000AGWEC

  90. One more thing on Syco — it is just a Sony Label…

    “In the UK we organised our frontline music companies in 2006 into the RCA and Columbia Label Groups, and in March 2007 also announced a third frontline label, Epic. These three main music companies also release music from many other famous music labels, among them; Jive, Zomba, J Records, 1965 Recordings, Syco Entertainment and Phonogenic.”
    Link: http://www.sonymusic.co.uk/about/

    If you want more info on the Syco Records purchase, it is in the Sony 2002 SEC filings and 2002 annual report.

    Nothing secret going on with Idols and Syco.

  91. Well, with regard to Archie which is what I think started this lol, a Providence Rhode Island station played “elevator” the studio version from Archie’s album and called it his new song. MJ has put up a post for it.

  92. tuti:
    09/03/2010 at 5:40 pm

    the question is how the radio works?the record label pay them or another reason?

    Radio in the US is just like most places with commercial radio (ad supported) — they need to get an audience that advertisers want to pay for.

    But some parts of US broadcast radio and TV are unlike anyplace else in the world — because our licensing process is different. A record label can pay a radio or TV station to broadcast a song only if the radio station says it is a paid advertisement before it is broadcast and there is no chance that anyone in the audience will be confused. There are very few examples of this happening — they only one I can think of is Time Life pays for infomercials to promote their records and these run on broadcast TV.

    Cable, satellite and online broadcasts do not have these broadcast regulations.

    In the US a record label can promote a song to a radio station Program Director by demonstrating that the station’s target audience wants to hear the song — for CHR/Pop/Top 40 radio that is typically young adult and adults ages 15 to 30. In some markets the target audience can go as old as 50 but that is rare. A label can also legally put together promotions that feature the artist and will drive audience interest. A label can also make deals involving two artists, play this XYZ song and we’ll give you an interview with our hottest artist. But a label cannot directly or indirectly pay a station to play a song.

    The radio Program Directors are all evaluated by their target audience ratings and, if they fail to deliver numbers, they have to find a new place to work. It is a tough business.

  93. I seriously doubt Jive expected Archie’s Xmas album to go platinum. If they did they would have given it some class A promo. For example, getting Archie a gig on the Rockefeller Tree Lighting thing. I think they just thought they could make a quick buck on his fan base and they did.

    I think the Bocelli Xmas album was the #3 best seller of 09. He was outsold by Taylor Swift and the Queen herself – SuBo.

  94. I think the Bocelli Xmas album was the #3 best seller of 09.

    Don’t forget Bocelli had a song in the Jim Carrey 3-D Christmas movie “the Christmas Carol.” I’m sure the popularity of the film contributed to his sales.

  95. t

    he question is how the radio works?the record label pay them or another reason?

    adam have huge potential, i loved his 20 century boy.if maybe he write hes own song with more time in smart way maybe he can sale more.in my country we have american idol but the not famous.

    I don’t understand how the radio play works either. It’s interesting how some of the singers like Kesha, Justin Beiber,and Katy Perry seem to be the favorites of the radio stations. I say play more Adam Lambert! :)

  96. Well, here’s my cynical and not entirely tongue-in-cheek view: I think that all of these people still fill the “sex” part of the equation. They are the ones that the companies market for the purpose of providing the young and innocent someone they can envision as boinkable, without, you know, really overtly suggesting that they are. And, with TS, for example, someone that the young and innocent females can envision as *themselves* only more boinkable. Whereas the Archies and Kris Allens and Elliotts and ultimately Jordins of the world don’t look to companies as if they’d be as good a candidates for that kind of innocent-boinking imagery as the others, for whatever reason. I simply don’t believe that just *any* image of a person will be supported by music labels as a pop star, if that person puts out high-quality pop music. I think the companies make what they hope are *very* shrewd judgments about whether the image is right — and while the image doesn’t *have* to be edgy (although I think that is one of the categories, for the older and less squeaky-clean images), I’m utterly convinced that “sex object” or “fantasy-me-as-potential-sex-object” is part of the image they’re promoting in pop to everybody. It’s just that bubblegummers need less threatening sex images. And thus we need the Jonases and TS!

    lucy, your generous use of the word “boinking” and all its variations has made this my personal post of the week. I am laughing so hard right now. I need to work that word into conversation like 27 times this weekend. Just be glad you won’t be at any barbeque I’m attending. LOL

    Anyway, I think you have a point! I do think Archie is a nice looking kid but I don’t know about know about the kiddie sex symbol thing… he comes off as if just the thought would make him queasy. Hmmm…

  97. Sony never had a reason to support any artist who doesn’t have the potential to make money for them in the future — Idol or not. (The best predictor of future performance is past performance.) As far as I can tell, they may have given an artist who was successful than had a mediocre follow-up a second chance — but sustained support without selling? Not likely.

    But I can’t imagine that Sony would shoot themselves in the foot and not promote an Ex-Idol just because they do not have future Idols. Likewise, 19 has every incentive to support all the successful Ex-Idols to prove Idol has legitimacy and not to disenfranchise Idol fans. Can you imagine Sony not putting out the next Carrie album or Idol not having Carrie on?

    Of course they will support Carrie, and those they want to support as an artist on their label.
    And I also agree, they never kept going unsuccessful idols.
    But I just think that the loss of the idol contract is likely to make it worse for those they are not particularly interested in.

  98. I think the Bocelli Xmas album was the #3 best seller of 09.

    I can’t say for sure but I think she meant best selling “New” Album of 2009. Taylor Swifts album was really 2008 just continued to sell well in 2009. So its all in the wording. Bocelli Xmas was the 2nd best selling album of 2009 but 3rd best in 2009. Make sense?

  99. Kirsten, or anyone else who knows, are the pre-orders of an album counted before the album drops or are they included in the first week of sales?

    Also, are pre-orders from iTunes added to the drop week’s sales that determine the #1 album or are have they already been counted?

  100. All pre orders are counted in first week sales. I also posted a longer answer on the other thread ;)

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