Adam Lambert, Allison Iraheta, Kris Allen: More Song Collaborations.

UPDATE: Tweet from Jared Scharff yesterday, “got put in some American Idol blog b/c I twittered about Adam Lambert haha. Working on the track @ohferras and @rossgolan wrote for him NOW” Ha ha. *waves*

Adam Lambert, Allison Iraheta and Kris Allen have been mum about their song collaborations for their upcoming post-Idol albums, but that hasn’t stopped their collaborators from spilling the deets via twitter.   Here’s the latest:

Bonnie Milligan and Amber Ardolino ...
Bonnie Milligan and Amber Ardolino Sing 'End Up Together'

“Hollywood’s Not America” writer, Ferras twitters on 6/11: “Spent the afternoon writing with Adam Lamby. Now I wanna go to yoga damnit, but i have another writing session in 30 min. WERK!” and “Writing with the lovely and talented @scharffishere and @rossgolan…. :)” Plus he wants to write for Allison, “i want to be invovled in the iraheta thing. I love her.” So do I!

Ross Golan (my space) twittered on 6/2: “Lambert last night with @ohferras, Iraheta with Vitamin C today.” Vitamin C for Allison? Ha ha! Ross Golan’s original stuff reminds me a little of New Order. Hm.

Jared Scharff (myspace) twittered yesterday “made some alien guitar sounds. finished a dope song for Adam Lambert. Productive day. Tennis lesson tomm and sessions!” and “Writing a DOPE modern/Ramones meets Joan Jett tune for an Idol finalist (allison). So far so good. but i gotta jet soon! uh oh”

More collabs:

About mj santilli 33696 Articles
Founder and editor of mjsbigblog.com, home of the awesomest fan community on the net. I love cheesy singing shows of all kinds, whether reality or scripted. I adore American Idol, but also love The Voice, Glee, X Factor and more!

203 Comments

  1. Finally! The Ramones/Joan Jett song is for Allison by the way. Someone Tweeted him to clarify.

  2. Vitamin C for Alison? If this is a reference to Colleen Fitzpatrick and they are pushing Alison into teen-oriented dance-pop, then I’m not real happy with that. Who needs more auto-tunes songs like “Graduation”? Please tell me there is another Vitamin C out there or that they at least let Alison record some rock music.

    Of course, maybe this means we get an Alison doll! (Mattel released a Vitamin C Doll in 2000 — part of the capture the VitC tween market strategy.)

  3. Finally! The Ramones/Joan Jett song is for Allison by the way. Someone Tweeted him to clarify.

    That is great! Thought it might be because it doesn’t sound like anything that one would think about for Kris or Adam.

  4. I’m not liking Adam’s collaborators I find their song catalogue too light weight, too crap. But it’s not up to me is it.
    As for Allison and Vitamin C; I swear if they ruin that girl’s Album by making it Disney teenpop drivel, I’ll … I’ll… I’ll sulk for a very long time. A day at least.

    ETA:
    Joan Jett for Allison? YES! Ramones? Nooooo.

  5. Allison must be doing a rock song/album if she’s recording a The Ramones/Joan Jett type of song.I forget who vitamin C is? Is he
    a song writer? I thought he was a rapper in the early 90s no?

  6. I forget who vitamin C is?

    The Vitamin C I know is a girl who had a hit with a sappy song called Graduation, there might be another Vitamin C though I guess.

  7. Vitamin C sounds like a bad idea for Allison. I’m not sure about Joan Jett or Ramones either, perhaps a middle way between them. Many people think Allison has the great, some even say the best, potential to be a big recording artist, but I actually think she is one of the hardest to get right. Her voice is too adult for the teen market, but she is too young to be taken seriously by the adult one. I wonder how they are going to market her as a singer.

  8. Finally! The Ramones/Joan Jett song is for Allison by the way. Someone Tweeted him to clarify.

    That sounds badass! Woot!

  9. Wow Sunn.. Thank you for posting that, it was awesome. I am usually not into worship music, but the passion that he showed was amazing! I could really see him doing something like that with that tempo without the praise message on his album.

    My hope is that Kris gets to pick some of the colaborators that he has on his album. I would love to see him with someone like Kanye or Jamie Foxx or someone along those lines. I think that could be very interesting.

  10. Thanks, Sunn. That was a beautiful song, with Kris really showing how committed he is to his faith. Nice to see.

    If that was a performance at his church, that’s a lot different (and a lot more interesting) from the services I went to at my old church.

  11. Check out Aaron Spears’ twitter (twitter.com/aaronspears). He’s evidently getting a lot of questions about the Idols…and some of them seem to be a little strange…

    The tour drummer has been posting some really cool tweets about the rehearsals without spilling any secrets. That’s great!

  12. à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“made some alien guitar sounds.

    Why does this scare me? Could we please have some music?

  13. So Adam and Allison seem to be working with the same people? I don’t know how I feel about that. I guess we’ll just see =) and am I the only one who really didn’t like that Hollywood’s Not America song? heehee

  14. My understanding of the AI record process is that they write a bunch of songs that never make it to the album. I’s just hoping that’s what happens to Vitamin C’s stuff for Alison — do not kill the rocker with teen-pop-dance-crap.

    By the way, Vitamin C is Colleen Ann Fitzpatrick. Here’s her wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C_(artist)

  15. The Joan jett/Ramones song has been confirmed for Allison? yaya

    and I am not worried about the same people working with Adam and allison..if you read the tweets, the description of music they are writing are completely different for adam and allison

  16. I didn’t like the ‘Hollywood’s Not America’ song, either. Blech. Obviously it didn’t test well since they replaced it (though they never pushed Reuben’s going home song like they did Daughtry’s or Carrie’s).

  17. Ferras’s ‘Aliens and Rainbows’ is very Bowie like, I could see a song like that for Adam. Hell, just let him record it, I can see the music video now! Glittery goodness indeed.

  18. Ferras has a lovely voice… I think à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹Hollywoodà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Not Americaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ is a bit too monotonous to be an awesome song but its very pleasant from a singers perspective, which is a good sign. Kara’s NB is just terrible for a singer which is very odd since she sings too.

  19. So Adam and Allison seem to be working with the same people? I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know how I feel about that. I guess weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll just see =)

    I’m sure they’re both writing with/will be writing with a variety of people. Just because we don’t hear about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

  20. This is what I was bringing up on another thread — what’s it about when you manufacture songs on an assemblyline like this? how can they be meaningful, from-the-heart kind of songs when written by committee, or by pop writers who grind the stuff out for any takers?

    We gotta hope and trust that Kradam have the integrity to turn down the worst of it. But because of the time pressure, I’m sure there will be some large compromises.

    I also wonder why it has to be mainly original music? I realize that AI doesn’t want stuff they did on the show out again, after they’ve been selling it on iTunes for weeks. But with Cook, Adam and especially Kris I’d love to hear their fresh renditions of songs they already love and find meaningful.

    What’s the deal with that, anyone? Is it just that Jive wants new tunes so they can have a piece of the royalties as well as the discs and the artist?

    By the way, can’t resist linking to this sweet valentine from his colleagues, from right after Kris won and was being interviewed on one of those Post-show Idol things:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sV_mqC7Sn4&feature=related

  21. This is what I was bringing up on another thread à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s it about when you manufacture songs on an assemblyline like this? how can they be meaningful, from-the-heart kind of songs when written by committee, or by pop writers who grind the stuff out for any takers?

    I am not sure I agree that collabrating when songwriting is to manufacture songs on an assemblyline. I more see it as a creative collaboration and I personally think that if you work in a group where you creatively enhances each other the end result can be really good. A lot of song writers work in teams or with their band members.

    We gotta hope and trust that Kradam have the integrity to turn down the worst of it. But because of the time pressure, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sure there will be some large compromises.

    I too hope that Kris, Adam and Allison have the integrity and guts to take an active part in these collaborations. I think both Kris and Adam will handle themselves well but I guess I am a bit more worried about Allison. I hope they take her seriosly. I checked some Vitamin C stuff and I absolutely hate it. Not at all happy with that combo. The other names mentioned seemed to make more interesting music. I think Claude Kelly is a real catch for Kris. I wish he would do something with Allison too.

  22. Sunn, I’ve watched that video many times before. Pretty much the only pre-Idol performances you can find of Kris on YouTube are worship songs. The thing I like about them (even though I’m agnostic) is that they highlight what I think was Kris’s greatest strength on the show. He really connects with the story/lyrics of the song he is singing and is able to convey that emotional connection to the audience.

    Here are a couple more:

    Bless the Lord (w/ the Judah Chorale) (not the best audio quality, but it gets bonus points for his enthusiasm and dancing)

    O Holy Night

  23. I’m not worried about that Vitamin C chick. Seriously, yeah, she did some cheesy pop like that Graduation song. BUT, she was also in Eve’s Plumb, that had an alt-rock sound. So she’s a collaborator on a song that may or may not make Allison’s album. I’ll worry when I hear the song and I don’t like it.

    Until then, I’ll hope for the best.

  24. OMG… Vitamin C sucks….I just remembered “The Itch”… arghhhhhh…

  25. I am not so worried about the cheeziness but more how about how she writes her songs, looking at melody, phrasing and tempo. I didn’t like what I heard, they didn’t feel like great songs.

  26. Saga, I hope you’re right about the “creative collaboration” thing. I’d feel better about it if I knew these guys chose the songwriters they wanted to work with, but also had some songs of they already love in their drawer — by them or other people.

    I think there’s a fine line between “creativity” and commercialism in this context.

    On Taylor’s album and Cook’s there were a few good things, but most of it was just a notch or two above shlock IMO and not entirely suited to the strengths of these guys.

    I realize the kids have zero time during the show to do anything for an album, but it would be great if the material-gathering could happen early and if some of the mentors could be in the mix. Can you imagine writing a song with STevie Wonder?? Or Smokey Robinson? What a thrill that would be….

    Maybe it could be part of the prize!

  27. Well, maybe it’s not so much the collaborations that’s the springing leak, maybe it is a time issue. I do agree that most idol albums so far have been mediocre and I don’t have high hopes for these three either (sorry!). Good songs can’t be rushed maybe?

  28. washppd krisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s pre-album isnt church stuff at all

    Oh, I know. Brand New Shoes is on my iPod. I was talking about actual videos of him performing pre-Idol. All the BNS stuff is just fanvid stuff with the songs playing over them.

    ETA: But, the song Brand New Shoes is actually a religious song, I think. Not necessarily as genre, but in its meaning. That’s the way I interpret it anyway.

  29. I have listened to all of Ferras’ album, and it’s quite wonderful. EXCEPT for “Hollywood’s Not America,” the one song I don’t care for at all. Check out the rest of Aliens & Rainbows on MySpace. I think he’s a good match for Lambert.

  30. I just realized that kris’s name is on the blog post but there isnt a post about him in the blogpost? Isnt he writing with Claude Kelly and some Dave Hodge?
    Anyone else?

  31. The cable channel, Palladia, aired the Queen at Wembly concert last night which was from 1986 when Freddy Mercury was still healthy, and I was just struck by how similar Adam’s voice is to Freddy’s. It makes me hope that they get some amazing lead guitarist to record with Adam — at least for a song or two.

    I have listened to all of Ferrasà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ album, and ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s quite wonderful. EXCEPT for à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Hollywoodà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Not America,à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  the one song I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t care for at all. Check out the rest of Aliens & Rainbows on MySpace. I think heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a good match for Lambert.

    I agree 100%. I doubt I ever would have listened to any of Ferras’ music without this association with Adam. And, I really glad I did.

    I just realized that krisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s name is on the blog post but there isnt a post about him in the blogpost?

    Kris’ name is in the headline but there is no new info about his album. So there’s really not much to say.

    And, there is a lot more info about Adam’s songs, producer conversations and potential collaborators out there. Like this report from The Examiner:

    Adam Lambert was recently introduced to Bruce Springsteen through producer Brendan Oà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢Brian, whom he met through guitarist Monte Pittman. It has been suggested that Bruce and Adam were talking about some type of collaboration that Brendan Oà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢Brian would produce.

    Or the report today that there has at least been one follow-up conversation with Madonna after she met with Adam.

    Personally, I hope that he doesn’t collaborate with either Bruce or Madonna. But if it had to be one, at least Madonna makes sense. If he wants to do a duet with a “classic” artist, let me suggest Eric Clapton on guitar.

  32. Or the report today that there has at least been one follow-up conversation with Madonna after she met with Adam.

    Could you provide a link or more info on that, TKat? I’m pretty stunned at the news that she’s actually met with Adam. That’s quite a coup, no matter what one may think about a possible collaboration. TIA

  33. Oh hey Doesnt Vitamin C write for Miley aka hannah montana. Should be good right?

  34. Could you provide a link or more info on that, TKat? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m pretty stunned at the news that sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s actually met with Adam. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s quite a coup, no matter what one may think about a possible collaboration. TIA

  35. I’ll believe all these superstar collaborations rumors (for any of them) when I actually hear them on an album. I imagine a lot of putting an album together is schmoozing this person or that person to try to hook something up. Whether anything actually comes of it is another story.

  36. Let me try again — and not be a Klutz this time — and only submit when I’ve actually typed something.

    Could you provide a link or more info on that, TKat? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m pretty stunned at the news that sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s actually met with Adam. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s quite a coup, no matter what one may think about a possible collaboration. TIA

    It’s something that I was told at an event last night by someone who is in the music industry and who is connected to Monte Pittman. It appears to be in wide circulation but I don’t know if it is online. If it is, it’s really too small a tidbit for a story — particurly because we now know that Adam did meet Madonna. I didn’t believe the story of the Adam-Madonna meeting was real when I first heard it, but I guess it must have occurred because it made RS.

    There is a lot of discussion about who will collaborate with Adam, and apparently a lot of people who want to do it. I just hope that they get someone better than Kiss.

  37. tkat, anyone else that youve heard of them possibly being interested in collaborating?

  38. TKat: If he wants to do a duet with a à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“classicà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  artist, let me suggest Eric Clapton on guitar.

    If Clapton were to play with one of these folks (as if that’s ever going to happen!), it should be Allison. Blues-rock god plus blues-rock goddess = heaven!

    I’ve been thinking for quite a while that I’d love to see her do an album/tour with a blues-rock act, such as the John Mayer Trio for example.

    ETA: And for you blues fans, Allison’s nickname could be Mose!

  39. Interesting.
    Doesn’t anyone WANT to collaborate with Kris?
    All Adam and Allison, huh?
    I was kinda afraid that would happen.

  40. I don’t see Jive taking Allison in a blues direction so early in her career. It’s just not that marketable. Who on here even mentioned the passing of the legendary Koko Taylor? My bet is they are going rock/pop. The mention of the Ramones (one of my favorite bands of all time) and Joan Jett (pretty sure she was a teen when in the Runaways) tells me they may be going a little harder than Kelly C/Pink, but still in that vein.

    I also can’t see a Clapton duet with Adam. The only time he even came close to a blues-influenced performance was during ACIGTC and then he didn’t even pick the song. Besides, I was over the idea that Clapton IS God when I was in college. Some friends of mine were sooooo into classic rock I had to subvert and embrace new music in the late 80s and early 90s.

    I’m also over Springsteen, too. He had some great albums back in the day, and his recent efforts are solid. But I don’t feel the need to hear something new from him when the sound is pretty much the same. I’ll stick with the classics when and if I feel need to listen to Bruce. OKthxbye. LOL.

    ETA: Unless you consider WLOL as blues influenced b/c it was from Led Zepp. Another band that I can only recently enjoy again after years of torture.

  41. Doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t anyone WANT to collaborate with Kris?
    All Adam and Allison, huh?
    I was kinda afraid that would happen.

    Well, we can look at it this way. AI is one hell of a platform for getting started in the music industry. Kris has suprised us before and can certainly suprise us again. We just have to put our trust in Kris’ ability to turn this opportunity into something great. He didn’t win on cheer luck :tongue1_tb:

  42. His original stuff reminds me a little of New Order.

    :hmm1_ee: New Order >>>>>>>>>>>>> Vitamin C.

  43. Are there two Vitamin Cà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s? Still confused about that.

    Same here. The only one I know of is the singer who did the Graduation song, was in Eve’s Plumb and Amber in the original Hairspray movie.

  44. New Order >>>>>>>>>>>>> Vitamin C.

    Erm, I was talking about Ross Golan’s MySpace stuff, Not Vitamin C.

    I thought the pronoun I used would have made that clear. Why would I refer to Vitamin C as a he???

  45. Are there two Vitamin Cà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s? Still confused about that.

    Same here. The only one I know of is the singer who did the Graduation song, was in Eveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Plumb and Amber in the original Hairspray movie.

    I am confused by that, too. But I think MJ is referring to Ferras when she wrote, “His original stuff reminds me a little of New Order.”

    Regarding my Eric Clapton reference, let me take a stab at explaining.

    1. I am not suggest that Adam do classic R&B but I think he did a great job with two R&B classics on Idol, ToMT and ACIGC. And I think Smokey Robinson agreed with me on that when he gave Adam a standing ovation.

    2. I love the way that Freddy Mercury and Brian May’s guitar almost do a duet. When you listen to that Adam singing with Queen, the same thing occurs.

    3. IMO Eric Clapton sometimes also plays guitar in a way that sounds like a vocal. And, yes, I think the combination would be great.

    Doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t anyone WANT to collaborate with Kris?

    Maybe because Kris has defined himself in the signer-songwriter space, and he has a somewhat unique vocal style, precludes people wanting to duet with him. Regarding songwriter and producer collaboration, there have be a number of reports of people working/wanting to work with him.

    And Adam has a very unusual vocal gift. Very few male signers hit the full 5th octave with power and have such smooth transitions, and the few that can do this are very exciting. Add to that the high level of buzz about Adam, and it’s even more enticing. Plus, Adam seems to have more friends/fans in the entertainment industry and appears to be very rapidly gain credibility beyond AI — no mean trick to pull off.

  46. TKAT – who else has the range of Adam – sorry dont know music just what I like!!!!

  47. TKAT – who else has the range of Adam – sorry dont know music just what I like!!!!

    Freddy Mercury would be one. Robert Plant (Axl Rose, Steve Tyler)? I am not so good at male singers… more suggestions?

  48. TKAT – who else has the range of Adam – sorry dont know music just what I like!!!!

    Other people may be able to recommend others but here’s a few:

    Adam is a contratenor (or counter tenor) which is very rare. But there is a lot more to vocal quality than range, he has great articulation, breath control and power. For example, Justin Timberlake is also a contertenor and his voice does nothing for me. The two male vocalist who remind me most of Adam are Freddy Mercury, Steven Tyler (who is a low tenor who can hit an E6 in his fascetto). Also some classically trained singers (mostly Opera).

    There are a number of women with very wide ranges – Mariah Carey with a five-octave range, and a powerful voice is the best IMO. Whitney Houston when she was younger. Christina Aguilera, Celine Dion are others.

  49. I haven’t seen tons of people lining up to collaborate with any of the AI contestants. Not Adam, not Kris, not Allison — not anyone. Queen talked about working with Adam and Jamie Foxx talked about working with Kris. That’s about it. All of the other collaboration talk I’ve seen/heard has been on the songwriting level. Have I mised something? Where are the established bands/solo signers who have come out saying they want to collaborate with the AI8 people?

    Adam saying he’d love to work with so-and-so, or Kris saying he’d love to work with so-and-so, or Allison saying she’d love to work with so-and-so means nothing unless those people return that interest.

  50. TKat said:

    Or the report today that there has at least been one follow-up conversation with Madonna after she met with Adam.

    Oh, hold up. Where to you hear/read that? Do you have a link?

  51. Tkat, I don’t really agree with the comparison to opera vocals, especially when Adam pushes his full voice. I have never heard anyone in opera use the shrill sound Adams uses on the high notes in his full voice. In my opinion that is very much pop/rock singing and opera is more open. I know there is a preidol recording from one of his musicals where you heard this clearly. He goes up very high but at the same time makes the voice “shrill”. I have no opinion as to which way of singing is more beautiful but it seems that by tightening the voice chords in this way it is easier to reach those high notes. Any thoughts on this?

  52. Maybe because Kris has defined himself in the signer-songwriter space, and he has a somewhat unique vocal style, precludes people wanting to duet with him. Regarding songwriter and producer collaboration, there have be a number of reports of people working/wanting to work with him.

    Was there a mention of duets that I missed? This thread is about songwriting collaborations, is it not? And, Kris’ name is in the title, but none of the information that follows mentions Kris. I hope that he has some good people working with him and that his lack of a 5-octave range isn’t a deterrent of some sort (if it is, then a lot of talented artists will soon be out of work).

    Add to that the high level of buzz about Adam, and ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s even more enticing. Plus, Adam seems to have more friends/fans in the entertainment industry and appears to be very rapidly gain credibility beyond AI à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  no mean trick to pull off.

    Eh, is the level of buzz really all that high outside of the bubble? IDK. Right now, with the RS “outing”, it is higher than usual, but its ability to be long-lasting remains to be seen. And while it is undoubtedly true that his celebrity outside of AI has indeed picked up (with his face all over every “news” program known to man this week, it would be extremely difficult for any other outcome, LOL), the credibility judgment should be reserved for the album release, or at the very least, a real single. None of this year’s crop has any sort of credibility at this point outside of their respective fan base beliefs.

    On the topic of buzz, I found this intriguing: Google search trend analysis for June 2006 (Taylor Hicks and Chris Daughtry). http://www.google.com/trends?q=taylor hicks, chris daughtry&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2006-6&sort=0
    As some have said before, Taylor did indeed have a lot of post-show buzz. It didn’t translate to sales, though.

  53. pj: I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see Jive taking Allison in a blues direction so early in her career.

    Oh, of course not. I wasn’t suggesting that they might — just something I’d like in a perfect world. I can, however, realistically imagine her doing such a project sometime in the future, possibly as a “side project” similar to the John Mayer Trio — in fact, I was thinking “side project” in that earlier post.

    The mention of the Ramones (one of my favorite bands of all time) and Joan Jett (pretty sure she was a teen when in the Runaways) tells me they may be going a little harder than Kelly C/Pink, but still in that vein.

    The “little harder than K/C/P” would be excellent as far as I’m concerned — although the specific mentions of the Ramones and Joan Jett do absolutely nothing for me, as the stuff of theirs that I know strikes me as extremely simplistic and boring — sorry!

    I was over the idea that Clapton IS God when I was in college.

    Oh yeah, I never really thought of him as God, just as a god. :biggrin_wp: But he can still play a mighty mean guitar. I just saw his concert with Steve Winwood on PBS the other night, and it was great. And as for godliness, I still think his second solo on Cream’s classic live version of Crossroads is probably the most exciting minute of guitar playing ever.

    saga: Freddy Mercury would be one. Robert Plant (Axl Rose, Steve Tyler)? I am not so good at male singersà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ more suggestions?

    I haven’t checked their ranges, but Geddy Lee and Steve Perry come to mind. However, as TKat noted, there’s a lot more to it than range.

    TKat: IMO Eric Clapton sometimes also plays guitar in a way that sounds like a vocal.

    If you’re looking for vocal-like guitar, for my money the hands-down winner is Carlos Santana. I don’t think anyone has ever made a guitar cry the way he has.

  54. saga Jun 13th, 2009 at 8:07 pm

    Tkat, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really agree with the comparison to opera vocals, especially when Adam pushes his full voice. I have never heard anyone in opera use the shrill sound Adams uses on the high notes in his full voice. In my opinion that is very much pop/rock singing and opera is more open. I know there is a preidol recording from one of his musicals where you heard this clearly. He goes up very high but at the same time makes the voice à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“shrillà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have no opinion as to which way of singing is more beautiful but it seems that by tightening the voice chords in this way it is easier to reach those high notes. Any thoughts on this?

    Adam’s falsetto voice is not in the least shrill. Here is the a quote from the review in Brigadoon from the Houston Press:

    Still, the secondary story of the love triangle among Jean, Charlie and Harry is full of fire. Lambert’s gorgeous tenor voice makes Charlie’s love songs — especially the unforgettable “Come to Me, Bend to Me” — swoon-worthy.

    Here are three quotes from opera experts regarding Adam’s voice:

    1. Nicolas Reveles, Geisel Director of Education and Outreach at San Diego Opera
    Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voice: As an opera professional this is probably going to sound strange, but I love his voice! I imagine heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a baritone but he masks that with a terrific head voice (falsetto) that is incredibly well trained, fluid and able to communicate emotionally. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s particularly good in his slower, lyric numbers like à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The Tracks of My Tearsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  and à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Mad Worldà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I also reviewed his performance of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Black and White,à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  where it seemed to me that at times he was driving the voice a little hard. But one has to accept that with pop and rock singers. His pitch is excellent, even in those crazy à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“coloratura-likeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  passages; the only pitch issue I had was with the initial moment of the very last note in à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Mad Worldà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  but he obviously heard the problem and fixed it on the spot. That was very professional, very self-aware, and ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s something that opera singers often have happen to them as well. So heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s in good company.

    2. Leon Natker, General Director of Lyric Opera San Diego
    Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voice: Adam is a Broadway-style lyric tenor. He supports his voice well, which is no small achievement in heavy metal rock. He also doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t rely on falsetto tricks in the upper register; heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s really singing the notes with his full voice. His diction in Led Zeppelinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Whole Lotta Loveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  is better than the original recording so he definitely is trying to communicate with an audience. He has been on the road with à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Wickedà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  so we know he has the stamina to last eight performances a week. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s hard to tell from recorded media how big the voice is but it clearly has potential on a microphone. My questions would be: How long can he do this style of singing and is it the best style for his voice and for a long career? He seems to have the voice under control; I think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a matter of choices for him. What does Adam want in ten years?

    3. Valerie Scher, the SDNN Arts & Entertainment editor and a San Diego correspondent for London-based Opera magazine
    Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voice: Impressive. But not easy to categorize. Adam has tenor-like qualities along with some of the darker shadings of a baritone. He can also soar into the stratosphere with a fearless falsetto. Lean, supple and attractive, his voice is versatile enough for a variety of styles. And his attentiveness to pitch, phrasing and breath control indicates heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s combining his musical instincts with a firmly grounded technique. That should prolong his career.

  55. If youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re looking for vocal-like guitar, for my money the hands-down winner is Carlos Santana. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think anyone has ever made a guitar cry the way he has.

    If jimmy was still alive.That would be 1 great conversation with 2 guitars.

    Would love to see allison do a song with carlos.

  56. As some have said before, Taylor did indeed have a lot of post-show buzz. It didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t translate to sales, though.

    I have seen it said before as a comparison, but where Taylor lacked was having any real cultural or musical relevance beyond American Idol, nor did he have marketable looks. Adam actually hits those points. Whether that translates to sales or not cannot be determined since there isn’t an album, but Adam has more than just post-show buzz going for him in ways Taylor didn’t.

    For the three contestants signed this season I think all of them have a real chance of grabbing non-AI fans if their albums have catchy tunes or good songs.

  57. Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s falsetto voice is not in the least shrill. Here is the a quote from the review in Brigadoon from the Houston Press:

    I was not talking about the falsetto… and I didnt mean shrill in a bad way. Generally pop/rock singer tend to sing much more in their nose (hard to describe with words) that gives a more shrill sound. This is not something that just Adam does but all pop/rock singers. Opera, to me, sounds totally different. And I have read that article and they are talking about his range and qualities at different voices (full, falsetto) but that is still very different from singing opera in my opinion. He just doesn’t sound like Carreras… (not that I want him too).

    Hmm, maybe if I say that I think Josh Groban is much more opera-like in his singing it would make sense. When he pushes his full voice to high notes it is much more open in sound than current pop/rock singers.

  58. HelloThere- kris will do fine.As he said in his Idolatry interview most artist today arent high note singers.Not every singer has a good range.People like LadyGaga,John Mayer,Gaving Degraw,Katy Perry.Those are famous artist and
    they dont have huge ranges.

    Most high-noters like Adam were put away expect for Mariah Carrey.But most of them arent around.I wish they were though.Adam can bring them back lol.

    I think Kris is working with Claude Kelly,Dave Hodge and I think someone by the name of steven? Dave said in a twitter that he had a good session with kris and steven? Jamiee has expressed working with kris hasnt he? So there
    are singers who do want to duet/write with him.

  59. I’m sure that there are a lot others that are working with all 3 of them.. just not all of them talk about it on twitter.

  60. Many of these collaborations are just hastily put together writing sessions. I’m sure that not all will bear fruit, and much of it will not appear on their albums.

    Kris is collaborating with Dave Hodges and Claude Kelly. Kelly’s remarks makes me think that Kris’s first single has already been selected. Hopefully, Kelly has worked his magic as he did with Kelly Clarkson and Britney Spears. I’m expecting a soft pop route, similar to Matt Kearney, Matt Nathanson, and Jesse McCartney. I think it’s going to surprise everyone.

    It would not surprise me that Madonna would try to latch onto Adam… she is nothing but an over-aged harpy looking to stay relevant and somehow current. Whatever the next big thing is, she’s there…hello Timberlake and Timbaland.
    She HAS been a big supporter of gay rights, so I could see that angle.

    As I said before, Vitamin C for Allison is the pits in my book. She’s written one good song in her entire life. Just say no, Allison.

    Remember, these initial Idol albums are always rush jobs. Cook’s and Archuleta’s show their faults, and Jordin was blessed by that hit duet. Taylor and Katharine certainly got crapped on. However, they are obviously working on these albums NOW, instead of waiting until after the tour like Hicks and McPhee did. Daughtry made a good album, but he worked overtime during the tour to make it happen, with Clive’s full support. Let’s hope these Idols have that drive in them.

  61. Idol has been over, what, a month and then the top 2 had another week of promo. The signings for Adam, Kris, and Allison were only officially announced this week.

    The strike while the iron is hot philosophy of 19, though troubling at times, means that realistically Kradison will have only about 4 months to whip their albums into shape and get everything ready for a fall release and rounds of promo. During this short window the Idols are also touring.

    For the first album I think it won’t really be feasible to have either of the three hook up with an established known talent to write and record a duet with because of all the legalisms that would have to be fleshed out as well as compensation for said collaborator. Since none of the three have a boatload of back-up money available and are really funding the album based on future sales, collaborations don’t seem real feasible. Now some artists that either write or have a portfolio of non-used music may be enticed to work and or share this material with one of the idols.

    But basically the material will come from established songwriters who either have existing music they would like to present or will work in tandem with the idol, or may be penning new material to 19 for their consideration.

    The Idol fan base is notorious for anticipating each new idol will hit a home-run the first time at bat, but realistically, like so many other artists the first album out of the gate is not always as successful as anticipated.

    Since I am not “up to snuff” on current recording artists if someone could give me (and us) a list of first albums that hit #1 on album sales and stayed there for a few weeks (and I’m not looking for AI artists who have a built-in fan base) I would be really interested.

  62. Tkat and others – thanks guys – I think both Kris and Adam will have plenty of people who want to write with and for them! lol

    I’m sorry – dont want to offend but Taylor Hicks is NO Adam Lambert!

    Buzz outside AI? Yes, I think so! My daughter and son-in-law live in Ak – not far from Conway – he works for Walmart and was at the stockholders meeting- he told my daughter many in audience didn’t think it was very good and had heard “the Adam guy was pretty good”! That’s just a loose remark from a 40yr old male who has NO interest in AI at all!!! I know its different from last year cause when I heard David Cook was going to be at Walmart I nearly flipped and neither of them knew who he was or why I wanted to be there! LOL

  63. em: not only is this totally off topic, it’s a call to arms. keep the voting call to arms on your fansites PLEASE.

  64. almost no one stays at #1 very long anymore. I think most of the recent AIers have debuted at #2 or so. Did Clay debut at #1?

    19 is smart to release the albums in November for the post-Thanksgiving holiday rush. CD sales always skyrocket at that time; they make great stocking stuffers.

  65. Vitamin C might surprise people as a good songwriter for Allison.. you never know. I remember when I first heard about Linda Perry working on albums for Pink and Xtina, I was just like what the hell?- since I really hate that damn 4 Non Blondes song but her stuff was really good.

    I’m still holding out hope for a collab between the Falling slowly writers and Kris though.. hehe.. they don’t seem like people who would have twitter. =)

  66. Thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a big push across Adam fansites to get him the Kerrang Award for Best International Newcomer.

    I will say what I said to some of the Adam fans on IDF: he SO does not fit this in any way, shape or form. There should be no push for it since Adam is totally not Kerrang! nor does he have an album. I did get a good giggle out of the voting system though, so I voted for Sarver. Apparently Pastor Rolex has some votes as the Best Heavy Metal Hard Rock Act.

  67. Adam is a contratenor (or counter tenor) which is very rare.

    I know a couple of countertenors, they are not that rare.

    Here are three quotes from opera experts regarding Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voice:

    They don’t call his voice countertenor though, although I’m sure Adam voice goes into countertenor range.
    Just for comparison, have a listen to some classical countertenors –

    Paul Esswood – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW_ZUC5uqqc
    Andreas Scholl – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UXr4-YDJqk
    Philippe Jaroussky – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85VqUSqxaVk

    About Ross Golan – I have never heard of him, so I went to have a listen to some of his YouTube videos, but apparently the Ross Golan I found is someone different, but it’s a fun video nonetheless, and I’m quite pleased to have heard it in such a serendipitous manner –
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UsYH4rBpVM

  68. If youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re looking for vocal-like guitar, for my money the hands-down winner is Carlos Santana. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think anyone has ever made a guitar cry the way he has.

    I agree Santana can make that baby sing…..but no one does it better than when BB King plays his Lucille! BB (Blues Boy) is idolized by Carlos, Eric Clapton, John Mayer…you name it! Here he is with his signature tune, “The THrill is Gone,” making that guitar coo & wail (note that Muhammad Ali is in the crowd in this old clip):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vWL8jAWbP8&feature=related_from=PL&index=18

  69. two other things:

    Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m also over Springsteen, too. He had some great albums back in the day, and his recent efforts are solid. But I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t feel the need to hear something new from him when the sound is pretty much the same.

    This is my point about songs! Why I still want to hear Bruuuuuce is because his songs are often very timely, very moving. “The Rising” for instance, right after 9/11.

    but I too am thinking of collaboration in terms of songwriting, not performing. There’s plenty of time for that as their careers move along (hopefully) in the right direction.

    The question is what are they going to sing to follow up their success on the TV Machine? And is it going to really mean something to them, and to fans like us?

    another who really got burned by this is Bo Bice, a really talented rocker and AI runner-up, was didn’t like the first record they boxed him into. He’s put out an album recently, but there was a lag because of his health problems (??) and patience is not one of the tendencies of this crazy pop culture. You can wind up in the recycling bin a matter of weeks, even if everyone was digging on you…..:

    And the example of Jennifer Hudson? sorry, but second chances tied to huge Hollywood movies are really, really rare….

  70. Tkat, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really agree with the comparison to opera vocals, especially when Adam pushes his full voice. I have never heard anyone in opera use the shrill sound Adams uses on the high notes in his full voice. In my opinion that is very much pop/rock singing and opera is more open. I know there is a preidol recording from one of his musicals where you heard this clearly. He goes up very high but at the same time makes the voice à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“shrillà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have no opinion as to which way of singing is more beautiful but it seems that by tightening the voice chords in this way it is easier to reach those high notes. Any thoughts on this?

    I was just trying to give credit to the fact that many classically trained male vocalists have ranges that exceed Adam, have power in their upper range, great articulation, etc. Sorry I wasn’t very clear.

  71. Reminder:

    I just deleted a bunch of off-topic posts. Susan Boyle has her own thread, if you want to discuss her, take it there.

    I also deleted a post with a link to a fantard poll. Don’t advertise polls on my blog. That stuff belongs on your fansites.

  72. I havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen tons of people lining up to collaborate with any of the AI contestants. Not Adam, not Kris, not Allison à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  not anyone. Queen talked about working with Adam and Jamie Foxx talked about working with Kris. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s about it. All of the other collaboration talk Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve seen/heard has been on the songwriting level. Have I mised something? Where are the established bands/solo signers who have come out saying they want to collaborate with the AI8 people?

    This comment started with today’s report in The Advocate about Bruce Springstein. Here’s the link:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-7494-LA-Gossip-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Adam-Lambert-Will-he-collaborate-with-Bruce-Springsteen

    They donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t call his voice countertenor though, although Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sure Adam voice goes into countertenor range.

    Vocal range is measurable and is only one characteristic of human voice. Other factors are vocal weight, vocal tessitura, vocal timbre, vocal transition points, physical characteristics, speech level, scientific testing, and vocal registration.

    I don’t know how else to classify Adam’s range. Adam describes himself as a contratenor which is just another name for a countertenor. The countertenor range is generally extends from approximately G3 or A3 to E5 or perhaps F5. According to idolranges.com, Adam’s range on AI performance was range was C3 to A5 (without counting his falsetto), so technically he covers the full tenor and contratenor range. Note: If you include his pre-Idol performances, Adam’s vocal range is actually broader then what we heard on Idol.

    According to vocal experts and people who have worked with Adam, he covers the full contratenor range without using a falsetto and, statistically, that is very rare. Ask the countertenors you know, I bet they have worked hard to develop their falsetto to extend into this range with power.

    If youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re looking for vocal-like guitar, for my money the hands-down winner is Carlos Santana. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think anyone has ever made a guitar cry the way he has.

    Yes, absolutely — and listen to how nice the two lines Adam sang with Sanata were.

  73. I’m always surprised by the references to Adam as a counter tenor. I always thought of that more as a technique or style or something, not a range or “voice”. For example, I’ve known counter tenors who are natural tenors and ones who are natural baritones. Not the right terminology, but it’s more something you do, not something you are. I don’t know – I’m not a singer, but I’ve worked with lots of counter tenors and that’s the idea I get: guys would sing counter tenor on some things and then maybe sing baritone on others as they choose.

    I do think it’s interesting to have some one use a big range on pop music. I think back to Gene Simmons comment that Adam doesn’t have a rock voice. For me, Joe Cocker is the sine qua non of rock voices, and Adam certainly isn’t that type, but there are other types of rock voices. Some singers/styles convey an emotional idea with a breaking voice, some with melismatic runs. Why not see what happens with a different set of tools in the box? Every instrument in a band can convey the same affect, say, heartbreak, but it’ll sound different from each one. Same with voices. The musical theater voice isn’t my favorite type, but Adam’s got skills that have me very interested in seeing what new can be added to the palate.

    For me it’s a little like this: I love blues and blues-based stuff. Rock wouldn’t be rock without what blues brought in. But I love the fact that people are mining other musical legacies to bring to rock and pop: middle eastern, celtic, central European, etc. New sounds and new ideas are always worth exploring, even if they don’t all work out in the end.

    So in the end, it’s not that interesting to me to find who else in pop has a big range or what kind of stuff they sang. The songs he did on Idol were not ones that demanded a big range – he used it (and other things) as an expressive tool on top of what the tune called for. For him and all of them, what they need are songs that are good. “all you need are 3 chords and the truth” may be a bit simplistic, but only a bit. They need to start there, and then have a band that they can work with to put their stamp on the music – the beat, the sound, etc.

    And that’s why I don’t like this rushed, song factory approach to album making. I’d rather wait a year for the album, but that’s not the game, I know. But I’d like to see both Adam and Allison find some people to truly collaborate with, and that takes some time. Not name brands (or not just name brands) but people to grow with. Allison with a Clapton or Santana would be cool for a cut or two, but I’d like to see her get hooked up with other young blues, a Davy Knowles or similar, for example, (though maybe steer clear of Young Man’s Blues, Mose not withstanding :) )

    As for Adam, where some people heard shrieking, I always heard shredding, so I’d love to hear him with a really good rock guitarist, someone more fiery than Clapton and not necessarily bluesy.

  74. As for Adam, where some people heard shrieking, I always heard shredding, so Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d love to hear him with a really good rock guitarist, someone more fiery than Clapton and not necessarily bluesy.

    I agree with the shredding comment. That’s why Steven Tyler is (awesome range) and Robert Plant was so great.

    I think Adam’s AI performance with the broadest range was this one:

    Semifinals Results – Satisfaction
    ….. Lowest note : C#3/Db3
    …. Highest note : A5

    Usual vocal range of Satisfaction: C#4-G#5

    Adam rearranged Satisfaction and expanded the range significantly. And IMO there was no “shrieking” involved.

    And although I am a huge Adam fan, I agree, sometimes it would be better if he reigned it in a bit. His live performance of “A Change is Gonna Come”, for example, has that one brief moment were he goes all “Lisa Minnelli” while the recorded version is great.

    I agree Santana can make that baby singà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦..but no one does it better than when BB King plays his Lucille! BB (Blues Boy) is idolized by Carlos, Eric Clapton, John Mayerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦you name it!

    I adore BB King and travel down to his Homecoming in Indianola, MS most years. He is amazing, but even he thinks that Eric Clapton is pretty great. Here is a link to B. B. King & Eric Clapton playing The Thrill Is Gone.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6gDeGdQ3rM

  75. A gift from an Adam fan to all you Kris fans out there:
    A youtube of pre-Idol Kris singing on stage in front of an audience:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxYiPS3jo9I&feature=player_embedded

    My apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere, but I havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen it before.

    Thanks Sunn. Even though I am not into worship music, I love the sound of the song and the way Kris sounds. Really beautiful.

  76. His live performance of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“A Change is Gonna Comeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , for example, has that one brief moment were he goes all à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Lisa Minnellià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  while the recorded version is great.

    Isn’t funny how people’s tastes may vary? I prefer the live version of that song (ACIGC), and think it’s the best performance I’ve seen him do so far. I have it on my Ipod, and unlike all the other Adam songs, I never sicken from listening to it. But the studio version is good too.

  77. It would not surprise me that Madonna would try to latch onto Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ she is nothing but an over-aged harpy looking to stay relevant and somehow current.

    Wow. So, the woman who has had a quarter century of success in the pop music business, and, just this past year, had one of the highest-grossing tours in the world, is “an over-aged harpy looking to stay relevant,” and somehow needs Adam to do so? I doubt it. If Madonna is interested in working with him, then I’m sure it would be because she has enjoys collaborating with young talent, much like many other artists.

    But, as I said, I won’t believe a word of these supposed superstar collaborations until there is some official confirmation. At this point, everything is just second-hand information about how people are talking about the possibility of doing something.

    Anyway, I agree that the collaborations that really matter at this point are the songwriting ones. I know that Kris said in a recent interview that he was happy that he was getting the chance to be involved in the writing process. I remain hopeful that Kris is getting to use songs that he has already written, and that some of the professionals who are being brought in to work with him are there to help polish things up, maybe give things more of a hook, etc., at least for a good portion of them. I want to hear what Kris has to say with his music, not just what he can sing that other people have written.

  78. I love BOTH versions. LOVE THEM. I think the one in person is more heartfelt, and yes, my very favorite performance of the year. It felt so real to me. But the recorded version is wonderful as well. The ONLY performance of the entire season I really DID NOT LIKE was If I Can’t Have You, b/c it felt so insincere, even tho Kara couldn’t stop salivating and is that when Paula ended up in a pool of Abdul? :) It felt totally put on to me, and I didn’t like the studio recording one bit. I wasn’t wild about Play That Funky Music, but it was fun. I also wasn’t wild about the performance One (b/c of the arrangement),. but the studio version is closer to the original.

    Oh, and how could I forget the craptastic No Boundaries?! I can’t bear to watch it on TV and did not download it, the only performance of Adam’s I don’t have. I did download the studio version. It’s corny as hell, but also kind of fun. But he and Kris both admitted that they didn’t have enough time to work on NB before they performed it, so it didn’t work AT ALL for either of them, IMO.

  79. suebrody, I loved “If I can’t have you” the live performance brought a tear to my eye, I felt it so strongly. Again it’s funny how individual musical experience is.
    I have to say though, I really am not fond of the production values of any of the AI studio performances and I include Kris’ and Allison’s in that feeling. They really are low budget, hurried, made for the buck, crap productions. Hopefully the albums will be better. I say hopefully with a certain sense of pessimism.

  80. webster: And thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s why I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like this rushed, song factory approach to album making. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d rather wait a year for the album, but thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not the game, I know. But Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d like to see both Adam and Allison find some people to truly collaborate with, and that takes some time. Not name brands (or not just name brands) but people to grow with. Allison with a Clapton or Santana would be cool for a cut or two, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d like to see her get hooked up with other young blues, a Davy Knowles or similar, for example, (though maybe steer clear of Young Manà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Blues, Mose not withstanding :) )

    webster, I totally agree with the above right down to the Knowles hook up. Not only that, but I agree with practically all of your comments at 11:20 above. An excellent, erudite comment. Worthy, instructive, informative. I kinda thought much of it, didn’t know all of it, couldn’t adequately express any of it. SO, thanks, and I suggest that others here give it another read if you only skimmed it first time.

  81. I loved the song, “If I can’t have you”… It was real and beautiful to me. I just wish Adam had worn a tie dye shirt and ripped jeans (hip huggers). And a great big belt. (I’m thinking JCS days, and I’m that little kid wishing I was waving palms.). Still I’m not sure why he went the suit route on this song, although I loved the suit in other performances. Maybe it was supposed to be a disco suit????

    I also loved “Play that Funky Music”… Loved it, loved it, loved it.

    I liked No Boundaries, sung by Adam. I love his voice no matter what he is singing…

  82. well adam’s pr push is definately working…album is #33 on itunes overall, and #4 on pop albums

  83. Every year people get soo excited about Idol albums and all these amazing collaborations. And every year they never meet expectations. Daughtry had Clive Davis, whom I think did a much better job with the Idols than Weiss. Jordin got lucky with the Brown duet. But, I don’t think much can get done for a November release.

    I haven’t heard of any collaborations that excite me for any of them. But, I also assume that bigger names wouldn’t be tweeting about it. I keeping my expectations very low, and hope that I’ll be pleasantly surprised. One of them should get a good radio hit, but I can’t predict which one. Exciting!

  84. o man adam’s now hanging out with perez hilton lol…..

    “Girl’s” night “OUT”!!! Me, Johnny wUjek, ferras, Perez, and A.lambert. Hold on to ur husbands ladies!
    25 minutes ago from txt

  85. Oh, of course not. I wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t suggesting that they might à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  just something Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d like in a perfect world. I can, however, realistically imagine her doing such a project sometime in the future, possibly as a à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“side projectà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  similar to the John Mayer Trio à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  in fact, I was thinking à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“side projectà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  in that earlier post.

    Gotcha. Thought maybe you thinking that for her first album with Jive. I can see it later, if she’s interested. I’m not sure if she is or isn’t. Hard to tell. All I know is that she wants to rock.

    The à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“little harder than K/C/Pà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  would be excellent as far as Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m concerned à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  although the specific mentions of the Ramones and Joan Jett do absolutely nothing for me, as the stuff of theirs that I know strikes me as extremely simplistic and boring à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  sorry!

    Dude, no worries. I guess your simplistic is my minimalistic fun with a good hook and a bit of an edge. No one has ever understood my crush on Joey Ramone and my love for Rock N Roll High School (the movie), and that’s fine. Give me simple if the alternative is something like Rush… way too complicated for my tastes. Although I do heart Radiohead. I guess it just depends.

    BTW, the blues… that can be simplistic, too. ;-) Or formulaic.

    ETA: I also have a lot of confidence in Allison slaying any kind of halfway decent song they toss her.

  86. Adam out with Perez. LOL. But, Ferras is friends with Perez, and Adam has been working with Ferras. Ferras seems like a really cool guy. Music wise, it does give me some promise that Adam and Ferras are spending so much time together, are both gay and singers, and are writing together. That closeness could make some good music. Perez better promote the crap out it!

  87. elephant1212
    Jun 14th, 2009 at 1:09 am
    o man adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s now hanging out with perez hilton lolà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦..

    à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Girlà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢sà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  night à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“OUTà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ !!! Me, Johnny wUjek, ferras, Perez, and A.lambert. Hold on to ur husbands ladies!
    25 minutes ago from txt

    Keep your would-be friends close and your would-be enemies closer. Smart lad.

  88. linsav, thanks for the great post.

    TKat: Add to that the high level of buzz about Adam, and ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s even more enticing. Plus, Adam seems to have more friends/fans in the entertainment industry and appears to be very rapidly gain credibility beyond AI à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  no mean trick to pull off.

    hellothere: Eh, is the level of buzz really all that high outside of the bubble? IDK. Right now, with the RS à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“outingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , it is higher than usual, but its ability to be long-lasting remains to be seen. And while it is undoubtedly true that his celebrity outside of AI has indeed picked up (with his face all over every à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“newsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  program known to man this week, it would be extremely difficult for any other outcome, LOL), the credibility judgment should be reserved for the album release, or at the very least, a real single. None of this yearà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s crop has any sort of credibility at this point outside of their respective fan base beliefs.

    I disagree — I think that Kris and Adam have built credibility beyond their fanbases. Kris has built a lot of credibility among people who don’t really like his musical style because he has shown himself to be an open-minding, intelligent, likable and a person who deserves respect. Adam has build credibility as someone with extreme talent, a great sense of fashion, and a likable, disarming wit. Whether either of them can translate this into musical success, we’ll see in the Fall.

    On the topic of buzz, I found this intriguing: Google search trend analysis for June 2006 (Taylor Hicks and Chris Daughtry). http://www.google.com/trends?q=taylor hicks, chris daughtry&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2006-6&sort=0
    As some have said before, Taylor did indeed have a lot of post-show buzz. It didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t translate to sales, though.

    My comment was about total buzz, nut just Google search volume. Plus, I am not sure what Taylor having 20% more search volumn than Daughtry proves. Taylor won. You would expect him to have more buzz from the winner’s spike. But this year’s biggest AI news was that Adam lost.

    And by no measure did Taylor ever have as much online buzz as Adam. Once again, just looking at Google, even though Taylor Hicks has been registering search volume since early 2006, a full three years longer than Adam, Adam already has 150% of Taylor’s all time search volume.

    In fact, Adam has more search volume in 2009 that any AI contestant has every registered during their AI season. And only 3 past winners, Kelly, Carrie and David Cook, have more alltime search volume that Adam. (He should pass David Cook by the end of July.)

    If you look at the number of press articles that mention Adam and Kris, they are about the same. But if you look at the volume of coverage about Adam, it vastly exceeds Kris — because many of the Kris references are in Adam-centric articles. The number of comments online about Adam exceed Kris. And so on.

    Does all this Adam buzz go beyond the AI bubble? Yes, I think that RS, EW and 20/20 clearly go to new audiences. And “Adam Lambert” is the #7 keyword driving traffic to MySpace.com.

  89. à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Girlà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢sà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  night à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“OUTà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ !!! Me, Johnny wUjek, ferras, Perez, and A.lambert. Hold on to ur husbands ladies!
    25 minutes ago from txt

    Keep your would-be friends close and your would-be enemies closer. Smart lad.

    True. At least, I hope that’s why he’s hanging out with him. :blink_tb:

    If it is, that’s pretty smart of him. Perez can do some serious damage if he doesn’t like you.

    If it isn’t, Adam, I have 6 words for you: RUN AWAAAAAY. /kara

  90. à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Girlà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢sà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  night à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“OUTà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ !!! Me, Johnny wUjek, ferras, Perez, and A.lambert. Hold on to ur husbands ladies!
    25 minutes ago from txt

    Keep your would-be friends close and your would-be enemies closer. Smart lad.

    Bingo!

  91. ugh.. Adam with Perez.. I will ignore that because I do not want my opinion of Adam to be lowered. I can’t help but keep thinking ugh..

    I wonder how much free time Kradison have since they’re working on the tour and album at the same time. maybe sundays off? or no days off since reading up on what chris daughtry had to to, he had no days off

  92. Big Adam fan here, but buzz doesn’t mean anything unless the music is relevant to the current scene and we don’t know that yet. I am crossing my fingers for it.

    Taylor had a ton of buzz, but not as much as Adam. But he had more buzz than Daughtry. And look how that turned out.

    I am also going against the Idol knoll here and am going to say wacky fans do not hurt a career. I can’t imagine that Clay had music that would ever be played on pop radio after the initial hoopla. Or Taylor. Jason had crazy OTT fans and he got a major label deal. So, I’m guessing it was the style of music for Clay and Taylor. Not the tards. That doesn’t mean I’m predicting huge success for Jason. I just see that the tards didn’t prevent him from a major opportunity.

  93. I’m not a perez fan.People who hang with the guy are people who want to sunshine out of there ass.Come on adam! I thought he was better than perez who has been hurting adam with his blogs.I hope Perez gives Adam come respect.Perez should counting his lucky blog that he can hang out with someone like adam.Why am I not surprised that Kris isnt with Perez? lol.

  94. pj: BTW, the bluesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ that can be simplistic, too. ;-) Or formulaic.

    Yeahhhh, I was waiting for that one! The blues structure is indeed very simple, very formulaic. But a jazz course from The Teaching Company I listened to a while back captured the idea of the blues really well: It noted that Bach is famous for having written complex and intricate stuff — compositionally — but baroque/classical music like that isn’t hard to play, in a sense, because the musicians just play what’s written…. while in the blues, the composition is very simple — typically exactly the same from song to song — but it can be much harder for musicians to play it well because the whole point is to improvise over that simple structure. The complexity, the greatness, comes from the individual performance.

    Oh, and speaking of complicated Rush — I like them, and progressive rock in general, and crazy jazz-rock like Jeff Beck and Jan Hammer. But I also love a good pounding rocker like, say, Van Halen’s Panama.

  95. Darn, I missed the conversation about Adam’s range and the technical aspects of his voice…that stuff really interest me lol…well I’ll still put in my two cents…first I have to agree with those that stated above that Adam is a counter/contratenor that is accurate (see his Ring of Fire performance…in some instances it is difficult to tell if he is singing either in head or full/chest voice because he is comfortable singing that high its where his voice sits…his singing voice)…by definition a countertenor it is the highest classification of the male voice and it applies to guys like Adam that can easily sing in a (high) range that most women can sing in and I’m not talking about falsetto because all men can sing in falsetto which is why in past centuries only men sang in Operas and in some cases in order to keep their voices from ‘maturing’ as in their range lowering singers would be castrated (ergo they were called castrati singers)…sounds gross but it really did happen…anywho I must say that article that supposedly quoted professional musicians who evaluated Adamls voice really surprised me because they classified Adam’s voice in ways that didn’t make sense to me…one person said he was a baritone? wtf? he is most certainly a tenor and he is not a lyric tenor his voice is too light for that that and he is not an Opera singer therefore that classification is inappropriate…these ppl must have not heard many performances if any at all..
    Adam does indeed have a very rare gift in that he can sing ANYTHING…Opera/classical music as well if he wanted too…plus he can belt and he has great control.
    Have a good night everyone.

  96. JohnM, I was waiting for that response, too. I dated a guy who is a very accomplished guitarist and to make a long story short, he was invited to sit in on a few sessions at some blues clubs here in Chicago. It was all improv and I loved it.

    However, sometimes a girl is just happy to bop to a 2.25 minute song by the Ramones. :-) And to bring this full circle, I want Allison to have some fun songs. I totally dug the Jett/Ramones comparison. We’ll see how it turns out.

    Still hate Rush.

    ETA: Where is this Adam/Perez rumor from? Link?

    ETA2: I also love disco. Shoot me now! ;-)

  97. webster Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m always surprised by the references to Adam as a counter tenor. I always thought of that more as a technique or style or something, not a range or à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“voiceà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . For example, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve known counter tenors who are natural tenors and ones who are natural baritones. Not the right terminology, but ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s more something you do, not something you are. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know – Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not a singer, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve worked with lots of counter tenors and thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the idea I get: guys would sing counter tenor on some things and then maybe sing baritone on others as they choose.

    webster – your thoughts on that is what a lot of professional also think right down to the last sentence above.

    The older traditional though was to be blunt a male voice identical to a female first soprano. The newer thoughts are beginning to be such as follows:

    Defining the Counter Tenor by David l. Jones (vocal coach/teacher)

    In my experience, the counter tenor is basically a singer who has developed the falsetto with such strength that it has similar power and resonance of a full-voiced sound. Often these singers possess a lower male voice; baritone or bass in the changed voice function. I have found that the lower male voices usually (not always) have stronger and more beautiful falsettos. In studying the successful counter tenors, I have found the singer often possesses the ability to hold back tremendous amounts of breath pressure with the body, which allows the falsetto to develop great strength and beauty of tone along with excellent agility.

  98. Big Adam fan here, but buzz doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t mean anything unless the music is relevant to the current scene and we donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know that yet. I am crossing my fingers for it.

    PJ I agree completely. The buzz discussion started with a simple comment that I made that some people were interested in collaboration with Adam for a number of reasons including his vocal ability and the amount of buzz about him. Somehow that got converted into another discussion about how having buzz made Adam = Taylor, etc.

    I still think that building name recognition and a positive personal brand opens up opportunities in a number of areas, including more investment in a debut record, access to a wider range of potential collaborators and promotional opportunities when the album is final released.

    Adam keeps surprising me with his conceptual ability. For example, the Adam in the Garden of Edan, forbidden fruit, RS cover would have been very cool. At least we did get the green cobra, and the butterfly was not his idea.

    I am getting more optimistic everyday that Adam will make sure this album doesn’t turn out to be drek.

  99. linsav: What you posted was awesome from the opera viewpoint. I found this awhile back from Masterclass Lady, Roseanne Simunovic, the Canadian vocal coach:

    “Of course there are valid reasons to dislike Adam. But as far as vocal technique goes he is as good as it gets. The way he can mix chest and head voice to create a seamless blend from one to the other, the way his entire range is à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“connectedà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , not to mention his massive lung power and incredible breathing skills. His breathing is only audible when he chooses it to be, to enhance the performance. His high notes are shrill because high notes by definition are shrill. He is one of the few male singers in the world who can produce these notes without exclusively relying on head voice, which makes them relatively à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“fullà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  and strong.

    I get it if you donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like his tone of voice, his persona or the way he performs. Maybe you donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like high notes in general. But the combination of singing skill and talent that he possesses is very, very rare and the best weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve seen on this show so far.”

  100. I still think that building name recognition and a positive personal brand opens up opportunities in a number of areas, including more investment in a debut record, access to a wider range of potential collaborators and promotional opportunities when the album is final released.

    I certainly agree with that. Exposure helps, and I think he’s doing really well with it. The 20/20 thing in particular probably did him more good than the RS cover.

  101. pj Jun 14th, 2009 at 2:00 am

    I still think that building name recognition and a positive personal brand opens up opportunities in a number of areas, including more investment in a debut record, access to a wider range of potential collaborators and promotional opportunities when the album is final released.

    I certainly agree with that. Exposure helps, and I think heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s doing really well with it. The 20/20 thing in particular probably did him more good than the RS cover.

    I think that the 20/20 showing in particular has done Adam good in that most of the viewers probably never ever pick up a Rolling Stone Magazine to read. He was fresh faced, charming, his mother is also charming and I agree with his mother that Adam radiates sunshine. That smile and laugh is infectious and wonderful. And you know both are doing something in that his album is moving back up the charts.

    Also, thanks anna in vegas, that was a great quote! I totally agree with her last paragraph!

  102. I think buzz is a big help. There are countless number of new fans that have checked out Adam’s music because of RS. His Idol album has skyrocketed again. Plus, name recognition helps when a cd comes out. It’s all about people wanting to click on your name, listen to that clip, and see if you like it. Of course, the music usually has to be good. (All Idols will sell a certain number of their first album no matter how good the music is due to diehard fans)

    However, it does come down to the music. But I could tell you before their music was out that Clay and Taylor were not going to appeal to a lot of people. Adam, Kris and Allison all have the potential to appeal to one of the broadest range of people coming from the show. They are all very “current”. I don’t think fanatic fans matter as much now. Fanbases are spread out – FB, twitter, blogs so not all are tuned in to places like IDF.

    One of the people supposedly hanging out with Adam tonight is Johnny Wujek. He’s one of the hottest Hollywood stylists right now! Cute gay guy. He’s Katy Perry’s close friend and stylist.

  103. pj:I also love disco. Shoot me now!

    POW!!!!!

    (it was only a blank – there are one or two I will spin)

  104. Very welcome, linsav. We must really love us some Adam to spend all this time on MJs and the research that we come up with. :wub_tb:

    Also, a big “Thanks” to MJ for giving us this opportunity!

  105. It’s cute how Adam and Allison seem to be sharing songwriters! Should be good.

    Guys, West Hollywood is very small. It’s LA Pride weekend. Perez is at a West Hollywood hot spot for Gay Pride. Adam is going to be at many events where Perez is. Everyone is connected and knows people some way. There’s lots of people partying tonight for LA Pride. Maybe Ferras and Adam will come up with a song while they’re hanging out celebrating the event. I do wonder if he’ll have a Gay Pride song on his album. I hope he does.

    Kris could show up at this Gay Pride event. He (shock) could then be partying with Perez. Fantasia sang a little while ago for LA Gay Pride.

  106. Cay i dont want Kris near perez.Perez is the media’s devil.The only people that hang with perez are media-whoresIts best that even Adam has no connection with him.Why do i feel like adam will be more like a celeb than a artist? Its like he wants to be everywhere isnt it? I like that Kris knows better than to hang with Perez.He doesnt even strike me as a party-boy though.He’s probulary cuddling with his wife in a crappy hotelroom.As much as I love Kris he’s very home-boy.It works for him so it should stay that way.Just like party boy works
    for adam.There both not bad things to be in the music world.

  107. I have to say though, I really am not fond of the production values of any of the AI studio performances and I include Krisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ and Allisonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s in that feeling. They really are low budget, hurried, made for the buck, crap productions. Hopefully the albums will be better. I say hopefully with a certain sense of pessimism.

    I have to say that I really enjoy the studio versions of all the performances from Kris, Adam, Allison and Anoop, enough so that for the first time ever, I actually downloaded them all from iTunes. I don’t necessarily love all the arrangements but together, the selections make for a really nice mixed CD.

    I like many of Kris’ live performances more but I appreciate having the full-length studio versions. I do wish they didn’t have to use the original Motown backing tracks for that week’s studio recordings though; their own interpretations made them seem less karaoke. I agree that slightly toned down Adam in the studio renditions is a good thing but being more over-the-top live obviously worked well for him on the visual level.

  108. AnnaMarieFields Jun 14th, 2009 at 2:57 am

    Cay i dont want Kris near perez.Perez is the mediaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s devil.The only people that hang with perez are media-whoresIts best that even Adam has no connection with him.Why do i feel like adam will be more like a celeb than a artist? Its like he wants to be everywhere isnt it? I like that Kris knows better than to hang with Perez.He doesnt even strike me as a party-boy though.Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s probulary cuddling with his wife in a crappy hotelroom.As much as I love Kris heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s very home-boy.It works for him so it should stay that way.Just like party boy works
    for adam.There both not bad things to be in the music world.

    Knowing Perez for the media hound he is, I don’t think Adam would make any sort of public scene if Perez walked over to a table Adam and his friends were sitting at and invited himself to join them. Not if you don’t really want to be hounded to death. Perez is ruthless. As said before: keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

  109. anna in vegas Jun 14th, 2009 at 2:28 am

    Very welcome, linsav. We must really love us some Adam to spend all this time on MJs and the research that we come up with. :wub_tb:

    Also, a big à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Thanksà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  to MJ for giving us this opportunity!

    At least if I am spending all this time on MJs and doing research regarding Adam, I am at least expanding my horizons and knowledge on different topics.

  110. Thanks for all vocal range comments, I love those! I would like to add to the discussion that I have never really understood the Brodway comment Adam has been given. To me he doesn’t sound Brodway at all, especially not when he pushes those high notes. Yes, high notes sounds shrill because high notes are shrill and that sound is more pop/rock to me. Since a lot of people are referring to Clay I watched one of his “big” AI performances, I think it was “Bridge over troublewater”, and I found that much more Broadway.

    After seeing some of the coverage Perez has been given Adam, I am starting to think he is really one vindictive b****. He’d report anything that fits his agenda, truth or not, and his agenda is not very nice.

  111. Kris has built a lot of credibility among people who donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really like his musical style because he has shown himself to be an open-minding, intelligent, likable and a person who deserves respect.

    I see. So, any “credibility” that Kris has built has to do with his personality, not music. That doesn’t bode well if that’s the case, especially considering that the AI machine continues to do everything in their power to keep him hidden in the corner.

    Adison seem to have proper backing and at least have the opportunity to do well.

  112. Kris has built a lot of credibility among people who donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really like his musical style because he has shown himself to be an open-minding, intelligent, likable and a person who deserves respect.

    I see. So, any à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“credibilityà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  that Kris has built has to do with his personality, not music.

    My take on this is that of course he has a fan base that likes his music, but he also have people that are not so much into his music that appreciates the way he handles himself in the world and respect him for that. I have often found his responses to be quite unique and impressive.

  113. TKAT – who else has the range of Adam – sorry dont know music just what I like!!!!

    Darren Hayes/Savage Garden and Adam have a similar sound.

  114. If he had the guts, Kris *should* go to the gay pride thingie. He has his own gay following, from the blogger Andrew Sullivan on down. That’s a loyal market and a great demographic $$$. But stay away from Perez…lord, that man is evil.

  115. I’m listening to Ferras music on myspace. His songs are very good especially Soul Rock. Someone asked if he was influenced by Elton John, I can so see there being truth to that.

  116. Eh, Adam and Ferras were probably having a drink together after the songwriting session, and Perez plopped his chubby fanny next to them uninvited, then proceeded to twitter he was “hanging out” with them. The price of fame.

    Songwriting has always happened in weird places and oftentimes in haste. A crap song can also benefit from great production treatment. Britney’s stuff is successful mostly because of the production and hooks, not because of any deep lyrical meaning or vocal prowess. I’m very curious about who is Adam’s A&R person is, because that will give us a clue into how the songs will be produced and the overall sound Adam wants to achieve.

  117. Yes, I am also very interested in producers, much more so than songwriters.

  118. Claude Kelly made it seem like he was a kris’s producer.Or is he a song writer?

  119. First time poster here. I would just like to add a couple of things to the conversation. Re: Perez- Adam would be wise not to piss him off, especially with what is going on with the guy who wrote the movie “Milk”. Perez yesterday posted uncensored pics of him engaging in sex with his boyfriend. The guy is sick ( Perez) and is very vengeful.

    As far as Adam having buzz like Clay and Taylor- it isn’t the same. Sure Clay had the Claymates and Taylor had the Soul Patrol. Any buzz they had was created by their fanbases. Adam has the media on his side. I haven’t seen any idol before him have this much buzz in the media.

    Of course all the buzz will be for naught if he doesn’t have the right people behind him. I hope MJ continues with the info about collaborations as it becomes available. Nice to be on a site that doesn’t just focus on Adam’s sexuality. I would really like to see Adam refuse to talk about it further. He got it out there- hopefully since he is a hot commodity right now he can use that to his advantage and refuse interviews that don’t want to focus on his music.

  120. Perez tweeted a few days ago he is waiting for the Adam Lambert sex tape to turn up. He is a nasty crap example of man and for Adam’s sake I hope their isn’t a sex tape.

    I think the 20/20 interview was Adam’s last time talking about his sexuality – he covered all the bases and all the media circuits so no one can say he was/is hiding anything. I think and hope now he will only focus on the music.

  121. Perez- Adam would be wise not to piss him off, especially with what is going on with the guy who wrote the movie à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Milkà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . Perez yesterday posted uncensored pics of him engaging in sex with his boyfriend. The guy is sick ( Perez) and is very vengeful.

    Yeah, I was really shocked that he posted those. I mean would anyone post pictures of vaginal penetration? Being gay seems to make you fair game. Perez must absolutely hate that author. (Sorry for the OT comment).

  122. OMG I just saw the pictures of Dustin Lance Black on Perez’s site. I’m not going to that site again, that was below the belt and just wrong. Perez is the biggest self hating gay man I have ever come across. MJ – I know you may edit this but that man is an ass. DLB career is on the upswing, he’s doing great things for the community and jealous idiots like Perez Hilton make me sick. I hope other blogger’s don’t post them such as this one and Rickey’s but I know journalism is journalism.

  123. Tkat, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really agree with the comparison to opera vocals, especially when Adam pushes his full voice. I have never heard anyone in opera use the shrill sound Adams uses on the high notes in his full voice. In my opinion that is very much pop/rock singing and opera is more open. I know there is a preidol recording from one of his musicals where you heard this clearly. He goes up very high but at the same time makes the voice à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“shrillà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have no opinion as to which way of singing is more beautiful but it seems that by tightening the voice chords in this way it is easier to reach those high notes. Any thoughts on this?

    SAGA, the scratchy-scream quality is definitely a pop-rock technique. (Adam can do the classical technique as well, if you listen to him on stuff like Come to Me, Bend to Me, The Prayer, and such.)

    When done right, it’s called vocal “fry” and it really isn’t harder or easier than a classical clear tone, just different. It involves mixing in a sort of slowed vocal-cord action with the regular, more free and open action.

    I can do fry on lower notes, growling, but have never learned to get that mix in on high notes, so I kind of doubt that it’s an easier way to reach your high notes, although I can’t say I’ve ever tried very hard to learn.

    It’s possible that it might actually be a little bit harder to do high fry than to just do straight clear notes, because if you have good training and the right throat, singing high isn’t all that hard, as you find out when you actually get good training.

    It’s relatively easy — for awhile — to scream high with a completely wrong technique. A lot of people do this, but it messes up your voice, but Adam’s singing shows that he’s well trained and practiced both for basic classical technique and pop technique. His voice shows very little strain, seems to me.

    One thing that makes Adam’s voice a bit unusual, though, is that, unlike most countertenors, he also has a baritone range. You can hear it in some of his Upright Cabaret performances. That’s quite unusual, actually.

  124. squirrely: Someone asked if [Ferras]was influenced by Elton John, I can so see there being truth to that.

    I threw it out there kinda rhetorically. What do you think of Soul Rock for Alli?

  125. Good lord…Perez is just nasty!!

    AnnaMarieFields: Claude Kelly is a songwriter; his two most recent hits were ‘My Life Would Suck Without You” (Kelly Clarkson) and “Circus” (Britney Spears). He’s currently writing with Christina Aguilera, as well. He’s written for Jesse McCartney, Franklie J, Leona Lewis, and Chrisette Michelle. He definitely has a pop vibe.

  126. Thank you storm.I wasnt sure what Claude Kelly did.I love “My life would suck without you” and “circus”.It seems like he knows how to make catchy pop tunes.I think Kris will be great with someone like him.

  127. I can do fry on lower notes, growling, but have never learned to get that mix in on high notes, so I kind of doubt that ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s an easier way to reach your high notes, although I canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t say Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve ever tried very hard to learn.

    Maybe I should phrase that as easier to get really strong high notes? Or maybe I shouldn’t… I am thinking opera technique is using more resonance to get strong high notes and that they more rely on the high voice, not the full voice? Or maybe one could say that instead of pushing the full voice up they try and expand the high voice to lower register. Heh, never sung opera so I wouldn’t really know, but I personally find it much easier to reach strong high notes in full voice when closing the chords and going more shrill. That way you can sort of glide up to the right note.

    Adam can do the classical technique as well, if you listen to him on stuff like Come to Me, Bend to Me, The Prayer, and such.

    Yeah, I have noticed he is very choir boy sounding sometimes! :innocent1_tb:

  128. But the combination of singing skill and talent that he possesses is very, very rare and the best weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve seen on this show so far.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

    Sure, every year people think that their guy is the best ever on Idol. Statements like that are alienating and unprovable. It’s an opinion, it is NOT a fact. And it discounts every other talented person who made it through Idol for the past 8 years. That is going to backfire and make people dislike Adam, that kind of hyperbole.

  129. ***squirrely: Someone asked if [Ferras]was influenced by Elton John, I can so see there being truth to that.

    ****I threw it out there kinda rhetorically. What do you think of Soul Rock for Alli?

    I can definitely see/hear her singing it, it would have a much more ‘gritty’ sound that fits with the guitar arraignment.

    But I can also see/hear Adam singing it to – simply because I think he can sing just about anything and make it sound fantastic ;p

  130. What do you think of Soul Rock for Alli?

    Oh, nice! Allison has such a personality in her voice so she would kill on a song like this. I really like Ferras voice but he has a tendency to sounds like a lot of others, a little like Matt’s studio songs. There is something too nice about his things, everything harmonizes and nothing stands out. It’s not overproduced but just very levelled. I think Allisons voice could be the extra spice a song like this needs. Adams voice also has that quality of being an extra spice, and I actually think that Kris’ can be too.

  131. Maybe I should phrase that as easier to get really strong high notes? Or maybe I shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢tà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ I am thinking opera technique is using more resonance to get strong high notes and that they more rely on the high voice, not the full voice? Or maybe one could say that instead of pushing the full voice up they try and expand the high voice to lower register. Heh, never tsung opera so I wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really know, but I personally find it much easier to reach strong high notes in full voice when closing the chords and going more shrill. That way you can sort of glide up to the right note.

    Saga, I know what you mean. I had the exact same experience, but then I got some better training — sort of by accident! — and I found out that it’s way easier to actually open on the high notes. Turns out that, for most people, the shrillness happens because you’re sort of “helping” your throat by using tons of other muscles that you shouldn’t actually be using. And when you get the whole thing retrained, you can actually do the high notes easily clear.

    The shrillness is muscle tension — which is actually completely undesirable, even though it’s very very common — and the fry is actually almost the *opposite*, a kind of a loosening of the vocal cord rather than a tightening of anything. That’s kind of the paradox of the whole thing, I guess. The better techniques — the open high sound and the fry — both require learning to relax all your little muscles, mostly. So while the fry and the open-throat high notes both take time to learn — which makes them kind of hard — when you actually have got them down, they are a more relaxed kind of singing, really, and don’t kill your voice.

  132. ppwars: What do you think of Soul Rock for Alli?

    Oh God! ppwars, just now I listened to that and I almost got chills just imagining her singing that! We must track down Barry Weiss and demand that she record that song!

  133. Lucy, now I need some examples, you make me more confused than ever! I don’t really know what is fry, shrill and open by your description, I think I must use wrong words maybe. I agree that relaxing your throatmuscles is A and O and to hit those really high notes (and low notes) you have to open up and really really relax the throat.

  134. I listened to soul rock.It screams Allison.I wonder if she can record it if Ferra already recorded it himself?

  135. what genre IS Adam heading toward? Again, I hope they don’t have him go all over the place. I also hope they don’t turn him into a male Lady GaGa.

    there were comments on Taylor upthread….. Taylor was dropped because they shipped over a million copies of his album but he was unable to sell even 800K of those. A return rate of 20% was probably unacceptable to RCA. If he could have found radio success, then many of those albums might have been sold. RCA is to blame…they saw a few good weeks of sales and then decided to ship more. For all the Soul Patrol’s numbers, they weren’t able to help him achieve radio airplay — which goes to show that the general population MUST like the material and it must test well, or radio won’t spin it. Taylor has probably been AI’s biggest disappointment. This is why the try to get better material for these AIers now.

  136. After reading the Boston Globe article I hope MJ is wrong with her prediction of mostly pop. I’d LOVE to see Adam go mainly Bowie glam rock with a few pop(ie Pink-ish) and a couple-oh my ra- songs and a ballad or two thrown in.

  137. Queen collaboration would be one way for Adam to get rock station spins maybe.

  138. I think Adam will have trouble going mainstream.Adam is best at going the dance/pop.I think he would fit with that genre with lady gaga,madonna,katy perry,brittany spears and JT.Glam-Rock doesnt work these days.He doesnt have the rocker voice like Allison has.I would only like to see Allison go the
    rocker route.It doesnt look just Jive wants her to go that way though.Kris is
    mainstream so it may be easy for him with the right production.

  139. oceana: “That is going to backfire and make people dislike Adam, that kind of hyperbole.”

    That quote is from a highly-respected Canadian vocal coach, not a fan.

    I respectuflly disagree with your statement and saying that this only an opinion. That’s the beauty of it here at MJs, we are all welcome with our opinions.

  140. AnnaMarieFields: I listened to soul rock.It screams Allison.I wonder if she can record it if Ferra already recorded it himself?

    Sure — that sort of thing happens all the time. There have been plenty of songs that the songwriters have not only recorded but released on an album, and that have then been re-recorded and turned into hits by other artists. It’s just a matter of getting the copyright permission and royalties worked out — which I imagine wouldn’t be a problem in this guy’s case because he’s already working with this crowd.

  141. That quote is from a highly-respected Canadian vocal coach, not a fan.

    I respectuflly disagree with your statement and saying that this only an opinion. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the beauty of it here at MJs, we are all welcome with our opinions.

    I didn’t see that it was from a vocal coach, I thought it was from a fan. But even from a coach, it’s still an opinion, although an educated one. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that it is not an opinion. I know to fans it is a fact, but the truth is, it’s an educated opinion.

    I think there have been several great singers on Idol over the years, and many of them have been praised by vocal coaches, Adam isn’t the first.

  142. JohnM: Oh God! ppwars, just now I listened to that and I almost got chills just imagining her singing that! We must track down Barry Weiss and demand that she record that song!

    I just sent Ferras an email that suggested it. The email:

    “i want to be invovled in the iraheta thing. I love her.”

    MAN! Throw “Soul Rock” at her. Let her play with it for an hour. Fine tune it. LAY DOWN A HIT!!!!

    Gotta try it.

    Good luck,

    U

    You got Barry covered, JohnM?

  143. The “my Idol is better than your Idol” fan wars are always going to happen, sadly. Longtime lurkers must remember the Season 5 hyperbole; Taylor, Katharine and DAUGHTRY were going to take the world by storm and change the face of music forever. Well, it turned out only Daughtry was uber-successful, Elliott had a top 5 hit, and Kellie Pickler stormed country music. Hell, even Bucky Covington was more successful than Katharine, based on radio play and album sales. One could argue that Jennifer Hudson is more successful than Fantasm at this point.

    It’s a crap-shoot. You just never know.

  144. I don’t think any of the Idols this year are going to be the biggest or bestest things ever. But I don’t think it’s a turn off if say an Adam fan thinks so. Way more Cook and Archie fans last year were screaming this and it didn’t affect them. Adam did get a lot of attention this year from people recognizing that his talent was unique and that it is a voice that is rare. But you’ll still see fans screaming that Cook, Daughtry, Kelly, Archie etc……. were so rare and still the best thing ever to come out of Idol. Not a doom for any of them.

  145. Lucy, now I need some examples, you make me more confused than ever! I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really know what is fry, shrill and open by your description, I think I must use wrong words maybe. I agree that relaxing your throatmuscles is A and O and to hit those really high notes (and low notes) you have to open up and really really relax the throat.

    We may be defining things differently! It’s all so hard to describe.

    When I think of “shrill,” I remember how I used to get strong high notes high in head voice, and I was essentially sliding to them and pushing them out and they sounded “shrill” to me — kind of thin and shrieky — and it turned out that what I called shrillness was caused by tension that I didn’t know I had, all over my mouth and throat and neck and tongue and so on. Now that I practice keeping all that tension out, I never push on the loud high notes and so I don’t sound shrill any more (to me, anyway!)… You may be meaning something completely different by “shrill” though — there doesn’t seem to be good, consistent vocabulary for this stuff, does there?

    Anyway, “fry” is a sort of gravelly sound — most people who use it do so in their lower register, so it’s sort of a growl, but I gather (don’t know from personal experience) that a rock screamer with good technique is using fry on high notes to scream them (and you can tell that Adam has good technique because his screams are notes with consistent, sustained pitch, he can switch apparently effortlessly from scream to non-screamed note, and he can do this a lot and it doesn’t seem to strain his voice.)

    The gravelly sound is made when just a little bit of air goes through your vocal cords and they kind of flap slowly but still make a pretty strong, undulating sound. You can find out what it is if you try to go way low in your register — lower than you can actually “sing” probably — open your mouth wide, and send just a little air through the vocal cords, trying to make a deep but soft “ah” sound, without much air. When you try this and you get a sort of rumbling sound, that’s “fry.” It’s sort of vocal cords flapping. They seem kind of loose when you do it, sort of.

    Once you know what it is and how to get it, you can work on it until you can produce that same kind of sound on notes higher in your register, too.

    And apparently you can eventually do it high enough so that you can get the “scream” sound very high in your register. That’s a rock scream done with the right technique. (I can’t vouch for the scream part — where you growl way up at the top of your full-voice register — from personal experience But I do know for a fact that once you locate that first low “ah” thing and feel how you’re making it, you can gradually bring it up higher in your register so that you can “growl” on many more notes.

    I can’t explain it very well, but if you try it, you see that vocal cords can be made to make that flappy sound. And people who use it as a scream technique are doing it on shortened cords up high in their register. It sounds like a very pushing note, but in fact it’s kind of the opposite. You have to limit how much air you’re pushing in order to create the sound.

    Yep, that doesn’t sound as if it makes sense, even to me!

  146. I am getting more optimistic everyday that Adam will make sure this album doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t turn out to be drek.

    Adam isn’t in the driver’s seat here. It’s his first post-Idol album, TPTB are calling the shots. He’ll get input, but in the end, he’ll make the album they want him to make.

    As far as Adam having buzz like Clay and Taylor- it isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t the same. Sure Clay had the Claymates and Taylor had the Soul Patrol. Any buzz they had was created by their fanbases. Adam has the media on his side. I havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen any idol before him have this much buzz in the media.

    That’s not true. The media covered both Clay and Taylor extensively. Clay got the same RS treatment as Adam did. Taylor was on the cover of the People most eligible bachelor issue. I would not characterize their buzz as “fan base driven”.

    Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d LOVE to see Adam go mainly Bowie glam rock with a few pop(ie Pink-ish) and a couple-oh my ra- songs and a ballad or two thrown in.

    An album of Bowie “glam rock” would get zero radio play, so they won’t be going in that direction.

    Queen collaboration would be one way for Adam to get rock station spins maybe.

    Queen is a nostagia act these days. A collaboration with them wouldn’t get played on the radio either.

  147. So my question is, if you are not an Adam fan, why do you care if his fans want to think/say heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the best in AI history? And why cast dire warnings about how it will all backfire?

    WOW. This little gem is from a post I just edited.

    Guess what? Posters who aren’t Adam fans get to have an opinion on him here, and they get to have it without the uber fans questioning their motives.

    This is the kind of stuff that gets posters banned for a good. Consider this post one last warning.

    This isn’t an Adam fan thread, despite the fact that some Adam fans are trying to turn it into one.

    Those who want to endlessly fanwank without interruption need to find themselves an Adam fan forum. My blog isn’t it.

  148. These will be first Idol albums. I love Adam, Allison, and Kris. But given that they will be making first Idol albums, I’m quite sure that all three albums will be pop to a large degree, and dreck to a large degree.

    Carrie was country — but her albums are country pop. And while I like Daughtry, I would like him a lot more if he actually made rock albums instead of poppy rock albums. Fantasia is urban R&B, and her first album was pop pop pop.

    These three will make pop albums, too, each in a slightly different vein, because the show is an assembly line for pop, plain and simple.

    Now, they can make better or worse dreck poppy albums, depending on their luck in the collaborators they’re handed and their own ability to rescue poppy dreck with their voices, musicianship, writing skil and talent, performance ability, and ability to convince the labels to allow them to use the best of the songs that are cranked out rather than the ones that best meet some stupid checklist of what makes a song radio friendly.

    My only hope, as always, is that each of these three very talented people manages to do enough of this rescuing to make the album at least moderately listenable, emerge with at least a couple of songs that seem fairly high quality, produce a couple of hot radio hits so that they earn enough money to be well supported on their second shot at an album, and perform so brilliantly live and in tv promos and such that people realize the drecky pop album doesn’t represent the limit of their abilities.

  149. Queen is a nostagia act these days. A collaboration with them wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get played on the radio either.

    Yeah I guess that is true. You just killed all my hope for one of them to make a good album or to ever get away from the AI clutches. :wallbash_tb:

    I do think the 3 signed this year are some of the most commecial AI has ever signed but I doubt it will transfer to an album I’ll be interested in.

  150. Is it a good sign, in terms of how much creative control Kris and Adam and Allison will have, that Cook said that he had a lot of creative control and his album (whatever your opinion of its quality) sounds a lot like his pre-idol music?

    Even bands and singers who aren’t obligated to AI often don’t make stellar first albums, but these three guys seem to have a lot more confidence in and knowledge of themselves as artists than many past idol winners and contestants, so I am hoping that helps them.

  151. Hopefully the people at 19 have realized that it’s better to give the artist a decent amount of creative control in their debut album — especially if that person has already demonstrated a firm sense of who he or she wants to be as a musician — which is the case with Kris, Adam and Allison.

    In one of his interviews with Entertainment Weekly, Kris came out and said he wasn’t going to record anything he wasn’t comfortable with. I would bet Adam is the same way. Allison, since she’s a lot younger, may have a little more trouble not letting herself be dictated to, but she also seems to know exactly what she wants. The people at 19 and the record labels aren’t going to be able to bully any of these 3 into doing something that really doesn’t suit them.

    On another note, I was re-watching a backstage interview with Adam that was done right after the finale, and he said that he would like to write with Kris. I wonder if that’s something they might actually try and do while they are out on tour? I could see them writing some amazing stuff together if they really wanted to.

    Lastly, Ryan Seacrest tweeted a few days ago that Kris and Adam are going to be co-hosting the American Top 40 radio show on the 2nd weekend of July — which would be July 11th-12th. Does anyone know how far in advance that show is taped? — because the tour will have already started by then. I guess they could do it from some radio station studio on the road. But that seems like a poor time to do it in terms of scheduling. Still, I will try to listen to it if only to catch some of the always fun Kradam banter!

  152. Also, I have become a little too obsessed with twitter, searching for items about both Adam and Kris (note to self: return to normalcy, please) and it is interesting to see that most of the people tweeting about Kris talk about how much they like (or don’t like) his music, while it seems that most of the posts tweeting about Adam focus more on his sexuality and all the media attention he’s getting. Has anyone else noticed this?

  153. I think since heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s become such a punchline now that people probably forgot just how popular Clay was coming off Idol, yes Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d say probably even more than Adam. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s been on the cover of TV Guide numerous times, was on the cover of RS, on the cover of EW, even when he wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t on the actual covers he got TONS of press/magazine coverage. he was the first Idol to appear on Saturday Night Live, had a sitdown ABC News/Primetime Live interview, and due to his massive first week sales of his debut album and the This is The Night single he got tons of press for that. Things have gone downhill over the course of 6 years but he was huge and it wasn’t fanbase driven.

  154. I have to say I never understood why Clay was so popular in the first place. He could definitely sing, but his music and his whole appeal always seemed targeted to the over 50 crowd. His whole vibe was just real strange and cheesy — at least to me. And I’ve never heard any of his music on the radio — not even right after he won. I don’t know why the media was so all over him after he won. But I know lots of people loved him — and still do love him, so props to Clay.

  155. Also, I have become a little too obsessed with twitter, searching for items about both Adam and Kris (note to self: return to normalcy, please) and it is interesting to see that most of the people tweeting about Kris talk about how much they like (or donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like) his music, while it seems that most of the posts tweeting about Adam focus more on his sexuality and all the media attention heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s getting. Has anyone else noticed this?

    Well, of course people are going to be talking about Adam’s sexuality now, because that’s been the hot topic in the media for the last week or so. It hasn’t always been that way.

  156. This isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t an Adam fan thread

    Mj, should I change my screen name then? LOL

  157. due to his massive first week sales of his debut album

    Will Adam and Kris and Allison do well when their albums come out? Well, based on what I have seen and heard on “fan” sites they will sell a few 100,000 albums out of the gate if only on fan loyalty. I’ve read enough fan site comments to know that there have been a hellavu lot of people that have received AI related albums for Christmas over the last few years. Uber invested fans have a way of justifying buying a dozen or so albums….”they make great stocking stuffers” or they pass them around at work to recruit new fans. And I don’t think that will change much this year.

    I just hope that everyone uses the same yardstick to measure the success of this year’s signees. They can ONLY be measured against the prevailing sales numbers when they release their albums. With the way the economy is and the overall turndown in the recording industry I think it would be unfair and unrealistic to measure any album put out this year with previous years. Sales for everyone just keep rolling steadily downhill.

    But, I know I’m just kidding myself. The numbers game is still the way people measure recording success….whether they are comparing apples to oranges or not.

  158. I think bottom line, all 3 are going for a radio hit. That’s what the record company will want, and no matter how much we think they are getting all this input, the record company makes the final decisions on what gets on the album and the first single. The Idols are going to barely have a chance to breathe in the next few months.

    It’s likely to be mostly pop, and fans are going to say it doesn’t “show off their voice or artistry”. LOL. Really, it’s not going to matter how many octaves they have, or what instruments they play, for this first single (imo). Down the road it might, along with many other things. Hopefully, they all get some radio hits and get a second chance. Then we’ll see what they really can do when they have the time and some credibility. I’m not too hopeful after seeing what they did with Archie and Cook. Clive was MUCH better at picking good radio singles (Kelly and Daughtry) But, we’ll see. Kradison are all close and will probably knock some ideas off each other. They seem more in tune with modern stuff and maybe will help each other.

  159. Hopefully the people at 19 have realized that ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s better to give the artist a decent amount of creative control in their debut album à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  especially if that person has already demonstrated a firm sense of who he or she wants to be as a musician à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  which is the case with Kris, Adam and Allison.

    Well, one can hope.

    But Taylor had more creative control than one might imagine. And he certainly had a “firm sense” of himself as a musician, after a decade of playing music publicly.

    But: a) he had to make an album very quick, while on a grueling national tour of one-nighters; b) there must have been a dozen opinions in the room on every session, given how much TPTB “bank” on these kids selling well; and c) I have it on good authority that he was like a kid at Xmas, with a hundred new toys to try out, and his own choices were muddied by that.

    A and B are still true for all Idols. C? I’m hoping Kris especially (yeah, I’m still here and I’m a Kris fan) will be centered enough to resist not just the overt pressure but also the seduction of being in a big fancy studio, working with proven hitmakers, having access to any bells and whistles in the recording process he wants. (Auto-tune Kris? Lordy, please no!)

    These kids are tired, they’re bedazzled and if they win they are giddy with all the attention — even the most humble of them. It’s only human. And while I understand how much TPTB wants to cash in before everyone forgets Kris, Adam and everyone else connected with this season, I think the calendar is all wrong. They should start the show in the fall or winter, give the kids a break to rest up, revive and work on material, then record BEFORE the summer tour, which by all accounts is a lot of fun by utterly exhausting.

    Oh well, if I ruled the world….

  160. Also, two other quick points:

    1)Kris doesn’t owe anyone anything re: gay pride stuff. go if you want, buddy, but you don’t have to prove you are an accepting and tolerant person. that’s been established.

    2)I could give a rat’s fart about the technical aspects of Adam’s voice. A lot of my favorite singers — let’s start with Tom Waits, just to take an extreme example — have zero technique, zero range, and express volumes in every song….

  161. 2)I could give a ratà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fart about the technical aspects of Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voice. A lot of my favorite singers à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  letà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s start with Tom Waits, just to take an extreme example à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  have zero technique, zero range, and express volumes in every songà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

    Expressiveness is definitely the most important thing in a voice, IMO, and you can have that whether your voice is technically amazing or not. I am in awe of Adam’s technical ability, and I think it helps him as an artist because it allows him to use his voice like an instrument, but I wouldn’t love him if he didn’t have the ability to convey nuance, emotion, passion, etc., with his voice. Kris has that ability too, as do artists with technically less-than-stellar vocals like Tom Waits (I’m listening to Ice Cream Man right now!) and Bob Dylan.

  162. I’ll add John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, etc. etc. etc.

    There have been tons of musicians with less than technically great voices that went on to great success…some even becoming cultural icons. It’s far more important to have phrasing, nuance, emotion and passion in the music — and to come up with some memorable songs that will last the test of time — than it is to have some technically great voice. Luckily for both Adam and Kris, they are very good at conveying all those things in their music.

  163. I see that the Country Music Awards are in a couple of days and that Keith Urban is scheduled to perform (he’s a nominee as well). I know Kris doesn’t want to be a country artist (and I agree with him on that), but it would still be cool if Keith invited him to reprise that “Kiss A Girl” duet they did on the AI finale…they sounded very good together. And it would give Kris a little more exposure.

    But somehow I doubt this is gonna happen. Oh well…

  164. I think the difference between David Cook’s debut album (which he seemed to have a big voice in and does seem like the album you imagined him making) and anything before that, was that Clive f***ing Davis was not involved anymore! To me, that’s the major reason that a lot of the past idol debuts seemed to gear more towards “pop” radio because it seemed like had a lot of control of the albums and that was not a good thing. Anyways, Cook’s first album was really good only because it didn’t veer too much into pop and sounded like his idol stuff.

    I think the other thing that goes into making a good debut album is the amount of effort the idol themselves put in since there is a time limit on getting it out. Chris Daughtry was working constantly and basically had no free time so of course, he had a lot of input. As long as the other idols are constantly around, they’ll get input too. Otherwise, they’ll be stuck with whatever leftover songs they can find to record and put on the album.

    I’m confident that Kris, Adam, and Allison will make good albums though. Kris, for example, has clearly defined himself on the show and his sound to me is radio friendly so I think he’ll do good.. unless he gets 10 more songs like No Boundaries.

  165. Adam isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t in the driverà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s seat here. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s his first post-Idol album, TPTB are calling the shots. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll get input, but in the end, heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll make the album they want him to make.

    While Adam might not be completely in the driver’s seat here – I personally think that he will be given more control than others might have been given in the past – I think that he is a little more informed with respect to the business side of things. It also seems to me that there is more industry buzz around him?? – feel free to correct me if I am wrong!

  166. I think I meant to put this here instead of the other topic.

    To whomever said Sarver had a recording contract from the way he was talking à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  that was beginning of May, and no way would he be signed before the winner. I think he was talking about recording himself, which many musicians do. Besides, if Danny and Matt donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have a contract, no way Sarver would get one before them, IMO. If Sarver gets signed at all, it would most likely be an indie label.

  167. After reading the Boston Globe article I hope MJ is wrong with her prediction of mostly pop.

    Adam said himself he wants to make a pop rock album. He said he doesn’t want to make a glam rock one.

  168. While Adam might not be completely in the driverà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s seat here – I personally think that he will be given more control than others might have been given in the past

    I don’t know if Adam will be given more control but he will definitely have a say. The show proved that. Adam said he wanted certain things and they gave it to him. They didn’t come up with it themselves, they just gave him what creative staging/costumes/arrangements/etc. he asked for. I think Adam has a leg up on some previous idols in the sense that he has a lot of knowledge on the industry and therefore knows what he wants. He’s not the type that can be “molded”. He is what he is so they have to work within that constant. His previous experience will reflect on his album. Just a hunch. People might not like it, but it will be classic Adam. lol

    There is too much comparison of Adam and previous Idols in my opinion. Taylor was in People’s Magazine as an eligible Bachelor, but his press was NOTHING like Adam’s. Taylor had a lot of negative publicity saying he was too old looking and wouldn’t make it in the music industry. Adam doesn’t have that. In fact, its the completely opposite. People are more excited about Adam. Clay is an Adult Contemporary singer. He’s COMPLETELY different than Adam. I just don’t see how you can compare them. It doesn’t make much sense to me. People might not think Adam is the best idol contestant of all time, but there definitely was not one like him that made it as far as he did. So we just have to wait and see what happens with him.

  169. Taylor has probably been AIà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s biggest disappointment. This is why the try to get better material for these AIers now.

    Taylor’s first album was terrible. This second one is much better, but it may be too late. We shall see. But yeah, he got screwed on his real first impression to the public.

  170. That is going to backfire and make people dislike Adam, that kind of hyperbole.

    Not really. People who like Adam will continue to like him. Those who don’t will continue to hate him and discredit everything he does. And the rest of the public will pay attention to him on singles/performances they like, and ignore him on the rest. Its really not that serious. lol

  171. After reading the Boston Globe article I hope MJ is wrong with her prediction of mostly pop. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d LOVE to see Adam go mainly Bowie glam rock with a few pop(ie Pink-ish) and a couple-oh my ra- songs and a ballad or two thrown in.

    Trust mj. She knows what she’s talking about. Many of us who’ve been around a while have seen it too.

    Adam’s problem is the same as Taylor’s, Jordin’s, and Archie’s in that he isn’t part of an easily recognizable genre. As a result, he’ll get the generic pop album treatment. If he’s lucky, he’ll end up like Jordin with one good collabo and a few decent radio hits. If he isn’t, he’ll end up like Taylor and Archie, not getting a lot of radio play and only really selling to the core fans. Just hope you like what he puts out. It’s the best possible result.

    As far as Adam’s voice…half a dozen of one, six of another. All the theatre degree people I know love his voice and go on about how great and trained he is. Supported him to the end. All the musicians and singers with voice and/ or composition degrees I know preferred Anoop’s voice – and Allison’s for raw, untrained talent – and thought Adam didn’t control his voice well. In the sense that he went for the “glory note” too often and didn’t show a lot of variation in technique. I heard “loud and skreetchy” and “over the top” a lot from them. The theatre people would pretty much admit that it was exactly this “over the top-ness” that they loved so much. Basically, a bunch of stuff about intent and other acting terms got floated a lot. In the end, almost all of the voice/ composition people supported Kris for his arranging and vocal phrasing. I was surprised how clean it broke with their preferences. Even the gay men who wanted to hit Adam with the hammer of the gods made jokes about how they’d muzzle him first! lol

    According to the vocal coaches and voice and composition people I know the absolute best, pure voice on the show EVAH was Melinda Doolittle. Katharine McPhee in a close second. Even the theatre friends of mine don’t really dispute Doolittle’s ability, although that flove Adam.

    FYI, the reason I know so many of both is that I’ve done music PR on the side for a few years now, and one of my best friends is a musician with a composition degree. I made a lot of friends from his college too since I visited a lot. I’ve also worked in theatre on and off for 15 years, and I’m now a dramatic writer.

    ETA: Adding Leonard Cohen and PJ Harvey to the imperfect and awesome list!

  172. Trust mj. She knows what sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s talking about. Many of us whoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve been around a while have seen it too.

    Adam has always said he considered himself to be a pop singer, whether it be pop rock or pop soul. There is an interview with him back during the top 36 which he says those very words. Therefore it it would no surprise to me if he puts out a pop rock album and I wouldn’t see it as him compromising what he wants to do.

    ETA – oops unique28v already made that point!

    As far as the “rock star” comment, well isn’t there a energy drink called “Rock Star?” And haven’t we all said “party like a rock star?” Wasn’t there a television show called “Rock Star Super Nova?” I think the words “rock star” just don’t mean what they did 20 years ago. It’s more of a tounge and cheek phrase now. I don’t think Adam meant any disrespect to rock’s royality when he said “rock star” in the RS interview. I really don’t think he sees himself as a rock star in the old sense of the word, but more like the bubbly energy drink of today.

  173. Don’t know if anyone on this board cares about sending the Idol contestants birthday greetings, but if you do, here’s a link to sign a b-day card for Kris, who turns 24 next week. Haven’t seen anything yet about any of the other Idols having upcoming birthdays…

    Anyway, if you care, here’s link…

    http://idolforums.com/index.php?showtopic=615882

  174. Lots of people twittering that Kris is now on twitter, at the address twitter.com/kris_allen8.

    Personally, I think this is another fake twitter account. First of all, the spelling is atrocious (Los Angelous?). Second, Kris has said he hates twitter.

    What do you guys think?

  175. ^ I agree with you its a fake. In the words of Kris Allen, Twitter is the devil.

  176. unique28v Jun 14th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Taylor has probably been AIà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s biggest disappointment. This is why the try to get better material for these AIers now.

    Taylorà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s first album was terrible. This second one is much better, but it may be too late. We shall see. But yeah, he got screwed on his real first impression to the public.

    Taylor screwed himself when he refused to co-operate by not recording while on tour. If Daughtry could do it why couldn’t Taylor?

  177. erinnthered Jun 14th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    After reading the Boston Globe article I hope MJ is wrong with her prediction of mostly pop. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d LOVE to see Adam go mainly Bowie glam rock with a few pop(ie Pink-ish) and a couple-oh my ra- songs and a ballad or two thrown in.

    Trust mj. She knows what sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s talking about. Many of us whoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve been around a while have seen it too.

    Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s problem is the same as Taylorà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s, Jordinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s, and Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s in that he isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t part of an easily recognizable genre. As a result, heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll get the generic pop album treatment. If heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s lucky, heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll end up like Jordin with one good collabo and a few decent radio hits. If he isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t, heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll end up like Taylor and Archie, not getting a lot of radio play and only really selling to the core fans. Just hope you like what he puts out. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the best possible result.

    As far as Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voiceà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦half a dozen of one, six of another. All the theatre degree people I know love his voice and go on about how great and trained he is. Supported him to the end. All the musicians and singers with voice and/ or composition degrees I know preferred Anoopà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voice – and Allisonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s for raw, untrained talent – and thought Adam didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t control his voice well. In the sense that he went for the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“glory noteà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  too often and didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t show a lot of variation in technique. I heard à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“loud and skreetchyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  and à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“over the topà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  a lot from them. The theatre people would pretty much admit that it was exactly this à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“over the top-nessà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  that they loved so much. Basically, a bunch of stuff about intent and other acting terms got floated a lot. In the end, almost all of the voice/ composition people supported Kris for his arranging and vocal phrasing. I was surprised how clean it broke with their preferences. Even the gay men who wanted to hit Adam with the hammer of the gods made jokes about how theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d muzzle him first! lol

    According to the vocal coaches and voice and composition people I know the absolute best, pure voice on the show EVAH was Melinda Doolittle. Katharine McPhee in a close second. Even the theatre friends of mine donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really dispute Doolittleà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s ability, although that flove Adam.

    FYI, the reason I know so many of both is that Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve done music PR on the side for a few years now, and one of my best friends is a musician with a composition degree. I made a lot of friends from his college too since I visited a lot. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve also worked in theatre on and off for 15 years, and Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m now a dramatic writer.

    I live around and know a ton of those type of people and I hear the exact opposite from what you say from musicians with and without composition degrees. They can’t even remember Kris’ name and just say that guy who won. They all agreed that they couldn’t remember a single thing Kris sang a few minutes after he was off the Idol stage.

    It is a fact that different people like different voices and the way they use them. Just because the people you know don’t like Adam’s voice doesn’t mean that all musicians especially those with composition degrees feel the same way about Adam or Kris.

  178. Just because the people you know donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like Adamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s voice doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t mean that all musicians especially those with composition degrees feel the same way about Adam or Kris.

    I agree linsav. I know numerous musicians here in Vegas, several of them making big $ here, and they all think that Adam is a rare gift. I agree and JMO.

  179. Donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know if anyone on this board cares about sending the Idol contestants birthday greetings,

    BTW girlygirl: A young girl I know did some research on Idol birthdays (I don’t know why, lol) and she says that 12 of the winners and runners-up have theirs from the 20th to 30th of the month. Guess being born late in the month makes you talented.

    “Happy Birthday” to Kris on 6-21. :clap_tb:

  180. So Kris was spotted at The Fray concert in Virginia Beach tonight, and now there’s speculation on whether he might be there meeting with Timbaland and/or Pharrell Williams/The Neptunes (who are all based in the Virginia Beach area) about possible collaborations. I mean, why would he fly all the way across the country just to go to a concert? More speculation centers on whether he might collaborate with The Fray…

    Meanwhile, Adam is rumored to be in Washington D.C. Perhaps not coincidentally, the Thievery Corporation (one of Adam’s stated faves) is ased in D.C. So, again, speculation about about possible meetings re: collaborations?

    Now as I say, all of this is pure speculation, based mainly on twitters. But wouldn’t it be totally dope if the speculation was true?

  181. Sorry, MJ- I have to ( respectfully) disagree with you about Clay and Taylor’s buzz being fan driven. I think Clay might have had more respect from the media than Taylor though. Daughtry was the one the media loved. And the reason Taylor was probably one of People’s eligible bachelors is because the Soul Patrol went on a email writing frenzy to the press about it ( ahh, I remember like it was yesterday, lol). The radio stations used to get ticked off at both Soul Patrol and Claymates for hounding them to play their music. Remember “Street Teams”?

    Adam has major fans in the media. Even EW, who love Allison and Kris, know that Adam is the major draw. I hope I am not coming off as too fangirly here because I am more of an AI fan than a fan of any contestant, but I stand by my opinion that there has never been a media darling like Adam Lambert. I know he didn;t win AI, but I think the reason for that is because a lot of his fans are from overseas.

    BTW- I like Kris and Allison too :)
    Don’t want to tick anyone off with these opinions- I just registered here and kinda like it!

  182. I’m still catching up on the comments, but for now I thought I would throw my 2 cents in regarding working with collaborators. I’m all for it. Especially right now. Currently the Idols are busy with the tour – right now rehearsing and soon touring. Writing and recording is going to get done in the middle of that so their solo cds can come out as quickly as possible post tour. Not to mention all the individual press junkets the Idols will continue to do during their tour stops. If the Idols wrote all their own material, I’m sure we would not have solo cds until next year as opposed to this fall as noted by Adam.

    I have no idea who any of these collaborators are that are being mentioned. Guess I’ll have to go look them up, but so far I’m not all that impressed.

    Someone mentioned guitarist collaborators? Clapton seems an obvious choice for Allison (they both have that bluesy tone). For Adam I would go with the obvious – Brian May. Though I would be really interested to hear him with Nuno Bettencourt.

  183. I REALLY like a collaboration idea with Adam and Springsteen. Song writing collaboration. Bruce has some excellent songs and Adam could do his magic with them.

    At first glance vocal duet is a big ole NO. Their voices don’t fit in the slightest. Though the fact that their voices don’t fit could make for an incredible duet. But it would be incredibly fabulous or incredibly awful.

    For Adam’s first cd I would be happier with only a song writing collaboration.

    Any word on what Zeppelin thought of Adam’s WLL? I read somewhere Plant liked it a great deal, but I wasn’t able to find it from Robert himself so not sure if that is definite. Maybe a collaboration with Robert Plant, or with Jimmy Page?

  184. Allison and Adam are discussing collaborations and duets. The will perform a duet on tour. per Allison Comcast interview.

    Comcast interview

    What type album?

    Allison Iraheta: Thanks! Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s going to be rock, just a little differentà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ doing my own twist on it.

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