American Idol 61513 Angie Miller, Candice Glover, Zayn Malick,

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Kellie Pickler is set to co-host The View on ABC, Tuesday June 18. Check the schedule HERE.

Michael Johns tweets, “Opening new LAX Terminal with David Foster and Singing with the Voices Judith Hill June 20 #LAX #Thevoice”

Angie Miller tweets that she finished a songwriting session with Toby Gad. She tweets, “Just got done writing with @tobygad @AutumnBand =)”

One Direction’s Zayn Malik Reveals Dramatic Weight Loss: Picture – It seems the pressure of being an international pop star is taking a toll on One Direction singer Zayn Malik. The 20-year-old Brit appears to have recently dropped a significant amount of weight from his already-slim frame, and an insider tells Us Weekly it’s likely due to the stress of his busy schedule. – See the scary photo at US Magazine

‘American Idol’ Winner Candice Glover Shows Off 20-Pound Weight Loss – It’s been one month since Candice Glover won American Idol, but along with her big win, she’s endured a big loss— weight loss! The singer, 23, opened up to In Touch at the Women in Film’s 2013 Crystal + Lucy Awards on June 12 where she told the mag she’s dropped 20 pounds since her start on the hit singing competition in January. “I honestly, don’t even know what happened,” Candice says of her weight loss. “I think just because I’ve been running non-stop. I’ve been trying to eat a little better and I think walking in the airport— I do a lot of walking, so I think that helps out.” – Read more at In Touch Weekly

Cowell affair hurt me but he’s not bad…just batty – The pair got together when they were both judges on The X Factor but fell out after their relationship was revealed in Tom Bower’s tell-all book on the telly executive. Aussie star Dannii says she was left hurt by the kiss-and-tell biography, said to have been written with Cowell’s co-operation — but hinted it may not have revealed the full truth. She said: “What the hell is there to say? Fact — or fiction? That’s all I’m saying. I don’t understand any of it. It’s his thing, his issue. “He’s been amazing and he’s taught me so much. I have so much to be thankful to him for. But sometimes your friends can hurt you. Read more at The Sun

High temperatures, cool vibe mark first day of Flora-Bama’s Shindig on the Sand (photos and video) – ORANGE BEACH, Alabama — The first day of the Flora-Bama’s new music festival “Shindig on the Sand” started out as a scorcher, but as the afternoon heat faded into evening and headliner Taylor Hicks took the beach stage, it was just the kind of setting organizers had in mind when they created this festival. – Read more at Al.com

PLAYBILL BRIEF ENCOUNTER With “SYTYCD” Dancer and Choreographer Travis Wall, Shaping Sound Across the States – Tell me about your journey with Shaping Sound. You started with “All the Right Moves” on Oxygen…
Travis Wall: Well, I did a dance performance on [the ABC dance competition] “Dancing With the Stars” about three years ago. It was something that I choreographed, and I hired all my best friends to do it. After we were finished with the performance — it was an amazing performance, first of all — we [thought], “How can we make this happen every day — us all dancing together?” – Read more at Playbill

 
  • HotHotHot

    Adam will be headlining Pittsburg Pride tonight!!

  • TheOther

    http://instagram.com/p/acJ8IIGObl/#

    Cool pic of the recent plaque that Greg Holden got for Home. He thanked Billboard and Phillip.

  • songsungblue

    Oh I can’t imagine how that weight loss happened, Candice! It’s such a mystery! Sigh. As if. You don’t just lose 20 pounds ‘being busy.’ Please.

  • LongKissGoodnight

    Interscope had gotten around to certifying Home 4x Platinum? That’s cool.
    By the way, the new single released by the Voice season 2 finalists from Adam’s team – Tony Luca (signed to Adam’s label 222) was written by the same duo that came up with “Home”- Drew Pearson and Greg Holden.
    In the interview after his TV performance Tony basically indicated that Home’s success was the reason that that song was included on his album and chosen as a single.
    It is also the only song on the album that was not written by Tony.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIOih0x4WxA&feature=youtu.be

  • LongKissGoodnight

    Actually I would not be one bit surprised if she did lose weight from simply being busy, considering that she has quite a lot of extra pounds that body could shed rather easily when being overwhelmed with intense schedule.
    I actually was surprises that she did not slim down during the Idol run. Contestants usually do, even reasonably skinny boys just from the stress and hectic hours of the whole thing.

  • Madilo

    I hope it works for him as it did with Phillip

    Good that Home was certified 4X platinium :) but maybe they should just wait for the fifth one lol.

  • http://twitter.com/Miztig Miz

    Sure you do.

  • Anny_nanny

    From what I saw, candice tried to lose weight between seasons, but ended season in the same weight. This is standard for AI, many alumni complained that they are gaining weight because of the unusual and plentiful food, constant stress and lack of physical activity.

  • mchcat

    Expecting a large crown tonight for Scotty – he is at 6 Flags Texas

  • Anny_nanny

    IDF second day buzzing that Angie signed. No links and I’m not inclined to trust them without official sources.

  • Lexie O’Neill

    So far, the crowd is estimated to be around 7K…could go higher:))

  • LongKissGoodnight

    At its current temp it should take Home till the end of the year to reach the next milestone.
    (Can be faster if GGG blows up on POP)

  • seashellz51

    Joe McElderry who won UK X-Factor 2009 is making his US debut opening for Adam tonight. Pretty cool. Adam specifically requested him.
    http://www.pittsburghpride.org/events/pride-in-the-streets/

  • Madilo

    Hahaha i was kidding although i think it’ll happen

  • Madilo

    Hope they buy his single

  • Anny_nanny

    Good for Greg, but I will not believe unless I see the news on the site of RIAA. I have a right to be skeptical.

  • Anny_nanny

    2013-06-15 16:20:04 EDT

    98 Cassadee Pope – Wasting All These Tears 0.0458
    99 Phillip Phillips – Home 0.0464

  • Jake W.

    Wow at Zayn’s weight loss. I hope he isn’t sick!

  • songsungblue

    Doubtful. Being on the road gets most people to gain weight. I would bet anything they got her a trainer and a diet and told her to Jordin Sparks that weight before her album drops – but they’re positioning it as healthy and natural. Cue: Shape magazine cover.

  • Larc

    He looks like photos of WW II POWs when they were rescued.

  • LongKissGoodnight

    Ammmm…
    Diet, aka balanced ration and a trainer IS a healthy and natural way to lose weight.
    Which is not at all a bad idea for a yang women who is putting extra work on her heart never mind all the rest negative consequences of being overweight.

  • lkingcorn

    When are the S12 starting their tour? Isn’t this a late start or not? Don’t really know.

  • Q_3

    The weather here in Pittsburgh is perfect and the soundcheck was amazing. It was so loud and clear that we could listen to it on the 22nd floor of the Westin Hotel which is a block from the stage. I hope everyone in central Pittsburgh loves Adam because they are going to hear him tonight.

  • Miss Blue

    I thought of my youngest son right away when I saw that picture. He’s 26, 6’4″ and has never weighed over 140. I always tell him he looks like someone from Somalia. He’s muscular, healthy, and very fit according to the doctor but his legs are practically toothpicks. Not one ounce of body fat. So this kid might just be one of those who just will always be rail thin.

  • Miss Blue

    Sure you do if you weren’t very active prior to that.

  • standtotheright

    20 pounds in six months is hardly dramatic enough to question (less than 1 pound a week). Even if one believes that nothing changed until top 10, 20 pounds in three months would still not be that dramatic (less than 2 pounds a week).

    Everybody brings a different health and lifestyle background to the show. Some gain in that environment and some lose. If she lost weight gradually and is pleased with her progress then I’m pleased for her.

  • H.A.

    Adam went out after soundcheck to M&G and sign autographs for fans. People have been waiting in line for 8hrs and 3hrs more to go. They are expecting record breaking numbers at 100k.

    Jim ni27 ?@jimni27
    Holy shit this line for the @adamlambert concert goes on for days

  • Lexie O’Neill

    So, Scotty is at Six Flags in Texas and rode rides, then ran over to a Texas Rangers game. Interviewed in the stands (poor woman behind him:)…

    https://twitter.com/MariessaChyanne/status/346019013937229824/photo/1

  • Larc

    They aren’t starting until July 19 in Kent, WA. 10 of the 40 concerts originally scheduled have been canceled so far, including the first 9. Ticket sales don’t seem to be going well at a number of the remaining locations, so I won’t be surprised if there are even more cancellations.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    The tour was originally scheduled to start on June 29, but the first 10 concerts have been cancelled and now the tour is starting on July 19.

    http://www.mjsbigblog.com/american-idol-live-2013-detroit-concert-cancelled.htm

  • girlygirl

    That single isn’t nearly as catchy as “Home”, though. It’s a pretty generic HAC tune, IMO. I was surprised it didn’t chart higher on iTunes after Tony’s performance, though…I thought he had a big fanbase from his pre-Voice days.

  • LongKissGoodnight

    Agreed on the “generic HAC tune” part though I did hear some catchy elements that might be more well-defined in the studio recording.
    Can’t say I share your surprise about it’s i-tunes performance I just don’t believe that anyone of TV contestants including Cassedy Pop had big enough funbases before the show to bother the top of the sales chart even for a day. People who write their own material and can bring 20-50K loyal followers eager to jump at the beat and perches their music are a good candidates for a record deal from at least an indy label. IMHO

  • Wfish88

    I’m the same way. It’s not like I don’t eat and don’t work out. I just never seem to gain weight (no matter how much I try)

  • Wfish88

    Candice will be the new Jennifer Hudson. Soon she’ll be over my TV in weight watcher commericals.

  • Susan Reiter

    Lots of pictures already of Adam at Pittsburgh! Supposed to be a 90 minute concert according to the pride webstie!

  • Larc

    Maybe she was taking a “sick” day off work and didn’t want to be seen.

  • justmefornow

    Album #2 update:

    James Durbin ?@DurbinRock6m
    Recording for my sophomore album starts 1 month from today!! Thank you all for being so patient & for all your continued support.You Rock!!

    ….I’m guessing then, Sept. or Oct. release at the earliest?

  • Valarie

    I think November is more likely for James new album. There isn’t even a single yet. They usually send a single to radio about 6 weeks before album drop. The single needs time to works it’s way up the radio charts to build demand for the album. But yeah! That it finally has a timetable.

  • thirdtime

    I thought James said recently they were in the process of picking the first single…am I remembering that wrong? Could it be that as soon as the single is recorded mid-July they are releasing it? If they release the single in August or even beginning September the album could still be out in October I would think.

  • justmefornow

    No you’re not remembering wrong. James tweeted the following and posted it on Facebook as well on June 8:

    ……”As of late, I’ve been focusing on the 1st single, which will hopefully be at radio very soon. I can’t wait til I’m able to share my art with all of you”……

    Also, I like that he posted this latest update tonight less than an hour ago on Facebook and has over a 1,000 likes already :)

  • Jake W.

    Full radio premiere of Fifth Harmony’s Miss Movin On. They are currently trending worldwide. http://www.saturdaynightonline.com/player/?mid=23350271

  • jdanton2

    Really liking it.

  • roaringpen

    Yes I noticed that as well. Hopefully all those folks liking his posts on his facebook page will get the word about his single, album and his concerts when they happen. His various peeps need to do a MUCH better job than they did last time of getting the word out, especially about his concerts.His website, well, it plain sucks – there I said it. They update every six months whether it needs it or not – lol.

    One other thing, it is going to be hotter than the dickens in Nashville in July. I hope he has great air conditioning!! Still, it is great to finally get something as definitive as a date – July 15th! Yeah!!

  • justmefornow

    I agree about his “peeps”, lol.
    I think his contract with 19M expires this month. Maybe he’ll be moving on soon to more pro-active management.
    Let’s hope.

  • Wfish88

    Didn’t he want to release another album last fall? He’s kind of dropped off the radar like so many other contestants between their debut & sophomore albums

  • dangrey

    Not at all surprised to hear Lauren and Camilla take over the majority of the solo work.

  • dangrey

    Not at all surprised to hear Lauren and Camilla take over the majority of the solo work.

  • maymay

    Phillip and Taylor Swift photo
    http://instagram.com/p/amx1heQ-Hg/#

  • macfae

    Phillip’s girlfriend posted this – I guess he is REALLY excited !!!
    lol…..
    https://vine.co/v/hBbPhiaVqQ2

  • Lollygaggin

    I’ve heard this before about the contracts with 19m from season 10 expiring this month. Is there any confirmation on that? God I hope so.

  • sdmama

    I just noticed the funniest typo. With all the success he does deserve a ‘crown’. But I read ‘crowd’, too. :)

  • irockhard

    Methinks single in September and album in October or November, perhaps they’ll go for another Black Friday release. I just want this album already!

  • irockhard

    No he said he wanted to start working on his next album last fall, which he did. He’s been working on this record full time since September last year.

  • irockhard

    I wish I had confirmation but I’m basing this on Adam leaving 19M after 2 years with them (June 2009 – June 2011). James and Haley signed with 19M in June 2011 so they should be leaving them by the end of this month. Non winners get 2 years (Adam left in 2011) winners 3 (Kris left last year), Lee’s contract should expire this month too. It’s gotta be right as they don’t have alums from earlier than S9 on their roster.

  • irockhard

    Recording starts 15 July so let’s give that about a month (could be more, could be less, just a rough estimate). That means it’ll be done 15 August. Then James will go home for a bit before promo starts. Single will be released in September and album in October or November.

  • Bernice

    Yeah there is no official announcement, I think IDF is getting a bit ahead of themselves, lol. BUT it is definitely looking like it’s a possibility that she is signed. She also recently mentioned on twitter that she’s also been writing with the same production team who mixed/mastered You Set Me Free (Red decibel) They also produced Colton Dixon’s latest album. So I’m optimistic :)

  • Madilo

    Go girls !

  • Madilo

    oh my what are they doing ? lol

  • irockhard

    What’s most probably happening is that she’s putting together a demo to shop to labels. Even if she’s gotten offers she can’t accept them yet.

  • mchcat

    sorry – I did mean crowd – funny what the fat fingers on a small keyboard can do

  • mchcat

    This is so good – Scotty in Sept, James in Oct and Lauren in Dec – season 10 still rocks.

  • irockhard

    Wow, so true! Wish them all the best of luck, they all did well during their first eras.

  • merkureye

    Something is happening as far as a “deal” with Angie. She’s writing with 2 different teams. Autumn Rowe @AutumnBand has written songs for Little Mix, Cher Lloyd, and Leona Lewis. The Red Decibel team includes guitarist/producer/songwriter Gannin Arnold @ganninarnold who, on his Twitter account header, mentions he has worked with Joe Walsh, Queen, Dave Grohl . . . and Colton Dixon and Angie Miller. Now, why would he mention Angie Miller if she wasn’t in some way with a record deal? I don’t know, just asking. I can’t see him putting an ad hoc association in his profile.

  • justmefornow

    He started on his album last fall with his band and producer in Nashville when he was done touring. But since he wrote and co-wrote all the songs for this album that takes time.

    Since then he’s written over 50 songs with great musicians and writers from Sixx:A.M., Shinedown, 30 Seconds To Mars, Halestorm and others. That takes a lot of scheduling as well.

    I’m also thinking probably single in late August/Sept. and album Oct/Nov.

  • escape

    Several of the Idol winners wrote most of their debut CD’s and released it within 6 mos and all of them were touring at the same time. He’s been pretty much fallen off the radar all this time.

  • justmefornow

    I’m not talking about debut CDs, those are usually out really quick, I agree.
    It’s the second ones that take longer as we see with Scotty and Lauren as well, all projected to release around the same time.
    Also, since James wrote with so many different writers/musicians this time, their schedules around their own touring with their bands probably came into play as well.

  • escape

    Scotty has been going to school. He’s also been touring and a lot of appearances during this time to keep his name in the public’s eye. I don’t even remember the last time there was any real news on James Durbin, minus the fan bantering.

  • irockhard

    Um no, not every single song. And they didn’t literally sit with the other writers and write with them for all those co-writes either, James did. Availability of the writers, producers, musicians, etc. plays a huge role in the timing of these things.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    They are doing a lengthy piece on the “20 feet from stardom” documentary on Sunday Morning. They are now profiling Judith Hill – showing brief clips of The Voice, showing her singing with MJ, an interview with her. Longer interview with backup singer Mary Clayton.

  • irockhard

    Scotty has great management, in fact he’s his manager’s only client. James is still with 19 Management who priorities are:

    1. The show
    2. The Idol tour
    3. Their latest Idol signees (now Candice, before then P2)

    So it’s not cause James himself doesn’t want to do promo work. But his relationship with 19M is hopefully ending this month.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    It appears that Scotty’s contract with XIX must have been shorter than the other winners’ contracts with 19M, since he was able to leave before 3 years, as you noted here:
    http://www.mjsbigblog.com/idol-headlines-for-61513.htm#comment-932197191

  • irockhard

    Well XIX is a different management firm to 19 so of course the contract won’t be identical anyway. The fact that Scotty was a minor at the time he signed with XIX may have enabled him to get out before the contract expires, assuming it was for longer than a year. But Lauren (also a minor at the time) is still with XIX though IIRC, so maybe it was for longer than a year but he wanted get out for some reason while she’s happy to stay.

  • irockhard

    Yes all the sophomore albums take way longer than the debut albums.

  • Not fit to print

    The Season 7 Idols all reported significant weight loss while on tour. You could see it in the videos.

    Everything depends on your working and eating habits. If you don’t normally work out, then regular activity will make a difference. If you drink 4 large cokes a day and you end up on a busy schedule where meals are ordered in, you will see a drop. If you eat out of boredom and suddenly become busy….All of these things come into play. Candice is putting together a cd and rehearsing for shows. Going on interviews. All of these things together could add up to a big difference.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I didn’t say that the contract would be “identical”, just that the duration of the contract must have varied from your assumptions above, or Scotty took action to escape from the contract for a valid reason (but would require legal action).

  • irockhard

    Considering that Lauren is still there I agree.

  • justmefornow

    Yeah, he needs to leave 19M and hopefully will this month, they stink.

    But if you’re like the rest of his fans and miss him, tune in to TNT next Sun 6/23 @3:00 pm to see him sing the NA before the NASCAR race at Sonoma :)

  • justmefornow

    Run, P2, run!!

  • http://twitter.com/Miztig Miz

    He needs to work on that form. :D

  • http://twitter.com/Miztig Miz

    Can you point us to some articles and interviews regarding that? I don’t recall anyone complaining about weight gain while on the show.

  • Ari

    She has a lot more to go

  • Ari

    But if the record company believes in her, they will get her a nutritionist and trainer to get her to lose weight by the time her album comes out. I just wonder how good that will be considering its coming out in a month

  • Ari

    or People – weight loss tied in with new album release – “How Idol changed my Life”

  • Ari

    Home was a massive hit because it was included in the NBC Olympics coverage and then was added to several commercials. Anyone who believes Home selling so much was because P2 is so great is fooling themselves. None of his other songs will make it to that level

  • Ari

    Its not bad but considering the Winter Olympics is coming up in early 2014 and is broadcast on NBC – the same network as THe Voice – I would expect some VOice contestants single to be used (like Home was) to give them a boost. With The VOice having a fall season that will end close to the Olympics, they should already start planning to have a winners single (original) that can be used there – maybe during Ice Skating which is the most popular winter sport

  • Madilo

    You can believe that but others are also entitled to believe something else and it would not be because they’re fooling themselves like you said.

  • Ria.

    That’s how this business works. A lot of it is luck or having the right song at the right time. Phillip deserves as much credit as every other artist gets when a song really hits big.

  • Anny_nanny

    I regularly losing all the links from my computer, alas.
    All that I can say I read a review of S9 and one of the male-contenders enthusiastically told that he liked the food during the show, but he gained weight. And no, this’s not Big Mike.
    And three girls from S11 after the show several times twitter abstract about the example of the Hudson and that they are trying to lose weight.
    This seasons which I followed.

  • Ria.

    The Olympics plays a LOT of songs. They are usually songs that are already on the radio. They don’t all take off just because they got Olympic exposure.

  • TheOther

    Considering that his 2nd single is on the verge of going Platinum and his getting radio play, and his CD has sold close to 1M, WW, there are many people who wish they were in his position. He’s the only Idol from Interscope that is making them money. Not bad for someone who has been out of the spotlight for the last 6 weeks.

  • Anny_nanny

    I hope anyone will not make candice lose weight too much and too fast. It is very harmful to the health of even young and healthy girl. And she need a lot of health now, ahead of summer tour and the promo for her album.
    Yes, I know that it is normal for any musician, that is not something super-heavy, but I still wish Candice health and strength. She is on the edge of her dreams and I don’t want such problems stopped her, it would be very unfair to the girl.

  • Madilo

    That’s what i wanted to say, there are so many songs that are played during the Olympics but not all of them will slay, Home is a good song and Phillip sing it well with emotion and it connected with the public nothing more nothing less

  • Lexie O’Neill

    Scotty actually switched managers last fall. Or is the actual management separate from 19M–or was this where he was with XIX? As many times as this has been covered here, it’s still confusing.

  • HMc

    YAY !!! So excited that things are moving forward…I hope all goes well for James and his new single & album are released as planned.

  • thirdtime

    Just out of curiosity…has there ever been an Idol that had their sophomore album out within one year of their debut album? When James said he hoped to have his sophomore album out less than a year after his debut, I was kind of skeptical that it would happen. Seems like the normal time frame is two years between debut and sophomore albums.

  • Madilo

    What were stats of his first album, were they good and how many singles did he release ?

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that the shortest amount of time between the debut and sophomore releases was by Kelly:

    April 15, 2003 – Thankful

    November 30, 2004 – Breakaway

    A little over 17 months.

  • ptebwwong

    If you only consider Idol winners & runner-ups, I don’t think any Idol alum has released their 2nd album within a year from their debut album. Some Idols have done Christmas albums (Clay, Archie, & Scotty) after debut album which have been within a year. But I don’t count these Idol’s Christmas albums as their 2nd album.

  • thirdtime

    Thanks fuzzywuzzy – do you know if she wrote the songs on the sophomore album or was it another album where most of the songs were handed to her?

  • maymay

    David Cook`s coronation was used as Olympics song but only sold 1.5m eventually. Even GGG has a chance to outsell David`s coronation without olympics exposure. It is about the song quality. Exposure is important but not everything.

    One the other hand, if Phillip had not made the top 2, he could not have sung Home. If he had not had the folky style, Jimmy could not have let him sing Home.

    Home`s success has many reasons which include song quality, timing, luck, Jimmy`s insight, Phillip himself. If people think Phillip has nothing to do with Home`s success, they are fooling themself.

    One song`s success always has many reasons. It is common sense. People don`t need to dis someone or brag someone just because you like or don`t like.

  • thirdtime

    If I remember correctly, they released Stand Up to rock radio and Love Me Bad to HAC. I don’t remember how high they got on the charts, I think Love Me Bad only made it to top 30. As far as sales, the last record was 109,000 albums sold I think, but in an article a reporter said he had just passed the 150,000 mark at that point which was late last spring. Either way his label (an indie label) was happy with the sales and went ahead to schedule a second album.

  • justmefornow

    Firstly, I just want to say as a 4th placed finisher on an Indie label, just the fact he’s getting a 2nd album with the same label that originally signed him is already a win in my book. Especially with the track record of lower placed finishers recently.

    But yeah, a two year gap I too think is pretty standard. As for Kelly and her quicker release, she was the first way back when. And she was the winner. Since then, 10 years later, there are so many alumns and the record industry is very different now, so that’s hard to compare to.

  • justmefornow

    Yes, in that interview last August the reporter mentioned he had sold over 150k at that point and that as far as I know was the last total we ever got. Total now, who knows?

    I think your’re right about LMB I really don’t remember exactly. Stand-up cracked top 40 on Active Rock. It was posted here in an old numbers thread at the time.

  • girlygirl

    David Cook, Kris, Lee, Crystal and Phillip all wrote/co-wrote the majority of songs on their debut albums and had the album out by November or December despite having to work on the album while being on the Idol tour and doing other promo. I think Colton wrote the majority of the songs on his album as well.

    So this has become a fairly standard thing for Idols over the past few years.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that she co-wrote some of the songs on both albums, but did not co-write the majority of them on either album. However, I think that Kelly is the only Idol winner to release a co-written song as her first single from her debut album (Miss Independent).

  • girlygirl

    Yeah, second albums in general take much longer. In the case of Idol, first albums are often rushed out to try and capitalize on the popularity of Idol xyz. We’ve seen examples of how waiting too long has resulted in poor sales (of course rushing the albums out has sometimes resulted in albums that aren’t very good or do not really represent what type of artist the person wants to be).

    There are artists who are able to put out an album every 12-18 months, but it seems like those tend to be artists who aren’t heavily involved in the actual songwriting process.

  • Madilo

    She cowrote 6 of the 12 songs

  • Incipit

    “One song`s success always has many reasons. People don`t need to dis someone or brag someone`s success just because you like or don`t like it.”

    “David Cook`s coronation was used as Olympics song but only sold 1.5m eventually. Even GGG has a chance to outsell David`s coronation without Olympics exposure.”

    You, don’t see a contradiction here? Interesting.

    You are also short on including facts…like which Label picked a real song and pushed the Song to radio after it took off in the Olympics, letting it ride for many months, and turning it into the first single – and which one replaced the cheesy coronary song ASAP with the first single, which also went platinum?

    Obviously, the situation is not the same – but that comparison? You are still making it. IMO. Of Course.

  • justmefornow

    Yeah, we all agree about the debut albums, they’re out quick. Perhaps even with co-writes these artists come in with some songs they’re written already. That would help with the time frame for the first album.
    The second albums, from scratch, so to speak, probably takes longer, especially if the artist is writing everything themselves.

    What was the time frame for David Cook and Kris for their second albums, just curious since I don’t follow them?

  • girlygirl

    Didn’t Lee write/co-write Sweet Serendipity?

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Oops! You are correct. Lee did co-write Sweet Serendipity.

    Interesting tidbit about Lee that I didn’t know, but found out while searching on ASCAP. Lee is short for “Leon”.

  • Ria.

    Good example. Time of My Life was played at the Olympics, but it did not get anywhere near the exposure Home got. Time of My Life is a good song, but the theme of it is closer to other Coroation songs. Home had Pop hit potential. That’s why it was able to work well for commercials and why it was able to gain so much airplay.

  • Madilo

    Thanks, cool that he’s having a little success in his genre and with his Indie Label, wishing him the best

  • Ria.

    Time of My Life was the winner of a song writng contest. I am sure Idol expected such a song to do no better than most other coronation songs. But it took off. It sold well right out of the gate and go on the CHR chart. That’s why the Olympics picked it up for some play. It ended up selling far more than any other coronation song. It is still the second best selling one with Kelly’s being third. Kara probably wanted to co-write the Season 8 coronation song because they thought ‘coronation songs now go platinum.’ *sigh*
    Home is a different animal. It was written as a potential lead single for Phillip and fits in with his normal style of musc.

  • girlygirl

    David’s 2nd album came out June 28, 2011 — approximately 2 1/2 years after his debut cd (well, his debut cd after winning Idol), which was released on Nov. 18, 2008.

    Kris’ 2nd album came out May 22, 2012 — again, approximately 2 1/2 years after his post-Idol debut cd, which was released on Nov. 17, 2009.

    And of course, we are still waiting on Lee’s 2nd post-Idol album (I think it’s scheduled to be released in August 2013) — his post-idol debut cd was released Nov. 16, 2010, so the gap between albums will be even longer than it was for David or Kris.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “It was written as a potential lead single for Phillip and fits in with his normal style of musc.”

    “Home” wasn’t written specifically for P2, and P2 stated that it wasn’t the kind of song that he would ever write.

    “Home” was written by Drew Pearson, who has worked with more than his share of Idol alums including Adam Lambert, Casey Abrams and Lee DeWyze. It was originally meant for British artist Greg Holden but was submitted to Idol as a possible finale number by Pearson’s publishing company, Pulse Recordings.

    “Pulse has a relationship with Jimmy Iovine and were able to pitch the song directly to him,” Pearson tells The Hollywood Reporter exclusively. “Jimmy heard it and loved it, and that was it.”

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/idol-worship/american-idol-phillip-phillips-coronation-song-home-327974

    What P2 said about “Home”:

    “I don’t write songs like that,” he told reporters of the Greg Holden-Drew Pearson-penned track.
    …….
    “The song that I did tonight that supposedly is my single, it’s not really my single, I told them it’s not my single.” Phillips explained that his passion for lyrics and music trumps even the best pitched pop song.

    http://www.mjsbigblog.com/phillip-phillips-home-is-not-my-first-single.htm

  • Incipit

    “Kara probably wanted to co-write the Season 8 coronation song because they thought ‘coronation songs now go platinum.’ *sigh*

    “Sigh” indeed, Ria. I just thought Kara wanted to establish that she had songwriting chops – and that was a giant enough failure. I hadn’t made the connection that one of the ‘sh!t for brains’ crew would think “coronation songs now go platinum” because it is so obviously the wrong conclusion to draw from ToML. They must have been blinded by the $$ signs.

    But this is the same ‘mindset in charge’ that signed off on the songs for the winner and runner-up this year – after teasing us with glimmers of intelligence, last year – picking a good song that fit into current radio fads for at least ‘one’ of the finishers’ normal style. They couldn’t manage that again, though.

    The New PTB have a big job ahead of them – IMO. Hope they are up to it.

  • justmefornow

    Thanks for the info.
    So it does look like 2 – 2 1/2 years is about standard.

  • justmefornow

    Thanks for the info.

    So it does look like 2 – 2 1/2 years is about standard.

  • TheOther

    Neither Jessica or Josh could have sung Home and made it a hit. Even though it was his biggest selling single, David Cook could not have been more obvious about his dislike of the song considering that he rarely performed it after Idol, unless it was requested.

  • girlygirl

    Toby Gad is a songwriter who has worked with a bunch of Idols. Some of the stuff he’s co-written with ex-Idols is really good, other stuff not so much. I think he’s one of 19′s “go-to” people

  • girlygirl

    That’s not quite true. Scotty is making money for Interscope, and Lauren might be as well. Their label affiliation is Interscope/Mercury Nashville.

  • girlygirl

    The Olympics people are not going to use a song just because it’s sung by some contestant from The Voice.

  • irockhard

    All I know is that My December is her only album where she either penned or co-penned every single track.

  • merkureye

    This makes sense. 19 is who sent Angie to Red Decibel for the YSMF single in the first place. 19 is behind this somehow. I think they are trying to get another single out before the Tour so Angie can play/promote it there. And, just like they have promoted Colton’s album on the AI website, they will promote Angie’s there as well, after an album comes out of course. This will be after the Tour, if there is a Tour after all. I’m beginning to wonder.

  • irockhard

    Again, no way they literally sat down with all the writers for all those co-penned tracks. “Co-wrote” often means getting sent a song and changing it up. But to actually sit down with the other writers and write something from scratch is dependent on everyone’s availability.

  • irockhard

    The standard time frame for a follow up album is 18-30 months, that goes for both Idols and non Idols.

  • irockhard

    Debut album, Memories of a Beautiful Disaster, sold over 150k according to his publicist.

    2 singles from that album went to radio – Stand Up to Active Rock and Love Me Bad to HAC, both cracked top 40 on those formats and charted in the 30s.

    Judging by the new songs I’ve heard and the new acts Wind-up has signed, James is going in an alt. rock direction with album #2, but different to the alt. rock that P2 does.

  • jayidrocks

    Home became a hit for some reasons:
    1. The song is great written
    2. “Home” is perfectly fitting with Phillips raspy voice
    Both leaded to sales of 280k at the first week.
    3. With the Olympics coverage and other commercials the sales went up
    4. The song charted on 5 radioformats ( at 3 formats reaching #1), what also leaded to sale-increases
    5. Phillips album came out, what gave the sales of the song a further boost….
    …So “Home” became an “over 4 million”- hit.

    Probably Phillips follow-single GGG won´t reach 4Million sales, but no one can deny , the song is doing very well currently on radio and I-tunes.

  • irockhard

    Scotty and Lauren signed with XIX after the show, not 19 like James, Haley, Pia, Casey and Stefano. And yeah Scotty left XIX for his current management while Lauren is still with XIX.

  • Karen C

    THat’s why the second albums tend to take more time if they are cowriting the albums, because more of the songs are done from scratch than possibly on the first.

  • Karen C

    The longer time is probably because Lee was getting another record contract, while Kris and David were still under the first one. I know that Lee had many of the songs written quite a while ago.

  • EvilTroyandEvilAbed

    Perfect. Love me some James, except I’m not a HUGGGE fan of heavy metal so if he’s going in a hard rock/alt. rock direction, I’ll totally be getting his album :)

  • EvilTroyandEvilAbed

    Sadness that Haley didn’t though :( Hopefully, she and James find better management after their contracts expire, and she finds a good label :)

  • irockhard
  • EvilTroyandEvilAbed

    LOVE IT. Thanks ;)

  • irockhard

    It’ll take Haley a while to find a new home but I think once she’s on her feet again she’ll be ok. She’s still young, there’s plenty of time to bounce back.

  • Karen C

    I’m kind of wondering if Lee already left 19M, because there is nothing that says 19 on his website.

  • irockhard

    Was there a 19 logo on his site before? Though Lee was signed to 19R while he was signed to RCA. James never signed with 19R so he’s never had the 19 logo on his site.

  • girlygirl

    I don’t know about the others, but I’m 99.9% sure Kris did. He tweeted about a lot the writing sessions he had right before and during the Idol tour, as did some of the people he was writing with. He was literally in the studio or flying somewhere any time they had a day off during the Idol tour (as was Adam). So I would say that it is likely that Kris, David, Lee, Phillip, etc. actually WERE in the room with their co-writers most if not all of the time.

  • irockhard

    How many different writers did they write with though? And were these people writers by trade like Dr. Luke and Max Martin or musicians/artists?

  • girlygirl

    I don’t know how many total different people Kris wrote with for his debut album, but for the songs that actually made the album (including the various bonus tracks), he wrote with the following people (some appear on more than one track):

    Toby Gad
    Lindy Robbins
    Mike Elizondo
    Cale Mills
    Greg Kurstin
    Francis “Eg” White
    Tobias Karlsson
    Joe King
    Jon Forman
    Chris Daughtry

    of these people, Mills (who, until recently, was in Kris’ band), King (The Fray), Forman (Switchfoot) and Daughtry are musicians/artists/songwriters; Kurstin is an artist (The Bird & the Bee) as well a songwriter/producer for other artists (he’s worked with Lily Allen, Kelly Clarkson and P!nk, among others); White, Gad, Karlsson & Elizondo are writer/producers (White is known for working with Adele, among others; Elizondo has worked with Eminem, Dr Dre & Fiona Apple, among others; Gad has worked with a bunch of Idols as well as w/ people like Fergie & Beyonce; Karlsson has worked w/ Carolina Liar & James Blunt, among others); Robbins is the only one on this list who is not currently an artist or producer; she is a FT songwriter (her credits include hit songs for Demi Lovato, Jason Derulo, the Backstreet Boys & Hot Chelle Rae, among others).

  • irockhard

    Yeah James list of writers and producers for album #2 is longer than that.

  • girlygirl

    yes, but not all of those people will end up getting cuts on James’ album.

    here’s a thread that listed the collaborators Kris worked with for Thank you Camellia. Not including Cale Mills, there are 45 people listed in this thread. And that’s only the ones that the fans knew about — it’s entirely possible he wrote with other people.

    However, looking at the final track listing, besides Kris, 17 people are listed as a writer on one (or more) of the songs. So most of the people he worked with didn’t get a cut on the cd. That’s likely going to be the case when James’ album comes out, too.

    http://www.kristogether.com/forum/thank-you-camellia-album-f31/topic374.html

  • irockhard

    Wait the list you gave me was for his debut album or his sophomore album?

  • Incipit

    “So I would say that it is likely that Kris, David, Lee, Phillip, etc. actually WERE in the room with their co-writers most if not all of the time.”

    girlygirl, IMO, there are enough stories of writing trips, pictures and videos around so that in-person collaborations are not even in question. And sometimes the artists will flat out say, they started in person and finished the collaboration by phone, text and email, for some songs, if time became an issue. (Like James telling the story of “Screaming”, and how he had to leave before it was complete – and the others who were there finished it up.)

    Everything you wrote about Kris during his writing process, I could say about DC; he made Vlogs, blogs, and eventually, tweets, and he gave us that Storyteller’s Concert with the background on the songs and the creation of DCTR.

    We have video of DC working w/Greg Wattenberg, golfing vids w/Raine Maida, and stories of sitting in his producer’s driveway writing the lyrics to “Permanent” at a picnic table – after hearing Chantal play the piano part that kick started that song on his way out the door from one writing session to another appointment, one that he blew off when he heard it. The artists routinely traveled to the song writers, and sometimes that was even to Europe, as when DC went to Sweden.

    At this point, all fans have Twitter timelines for collaborations – it’s a way to keep informed on the progress of the music…so we know a lot about who the artists are working with and when, because they both tell us.

    I see no reason to think James is doing this any differently than what we know about Kris, DC, etc. They are all ‘hands on’.

    JMO.

  • girlygirl

    the first list I gave you was for his debut album. The link to the KT site with the list of collabs was for his 2nd album

  • irockhard

    OK thanks.

  • irockhard

    Well sure I’m just skeptical they were able to be as “hands on” for their debut albums as they were for their sophomore albums due to time constraints. Not everyone you want to work with is gonna be available when you need them if your album is being slapped together so quickly. Their sophomore albums took longer, so I’m inclined think they weren’t.

  • suenigma

    In DC’s case, as the popular winner of a popular season. People made themselves a available for Cook. In addition. Cook had previously established relationships with Kevin Griffin and Zac Malloy ( predating Idol), so those were no brainers.

  • Incipit

    irockhard, It’s the debut album I have the most intel for, in DC’s case. They had 4 months to put together DCTR, and his primary job from the time he won was to be available for whatever he needed to do.

    David tells us RCA asked him for his Wish List for collaborators, and they delivered everyone he asked for, and then more. I don’t see why that would be a problem, or hard to believe – writing with the Idol winner meant potential $$ and exposure – and a fee from the Label – for the name writers, this isn’t done on spec.

    It doesn’t hurt if the Artist knows what their voice can do, the sound they are looking for, and who they want to work with. It still was good to be the winner, ‘And’ have 10 years of music experience – back then.

  • irockhard

    “I don’t see why that would be a problem, or hard to believe”

    Cause his sophomore album took longer, same with everyone else’s sophomore albums.

  • Incipit

    “Cause his sophomore album took longer, same with everyone else’s sophomore albums.”

    So they did. In just about every case I can think of. Have we any evidence to point to this being because of the collaborators? I don’t.

    Isn’t this a lifetime of experiences and things to say informing the first album and flowing into the music, and then the second album comes out of the last two years or so – as the experts explain it? And maybe a touch of having the luxury of more time – without the winner’s deadline to drop before Xmas. IMO. Of Course.

  • Ria.

    I don’t think Cook dislikes Time of My Life at all. It is just not his normal style of song. It doesn’t fit in with his show. He’s a singer songwriter so he still wants to establish himself with songs closer to his sound.
    The backstory to Time of My Life is actually really touching. The writer was almost bankrupt at the time due to medical bills for a severely ill adopted child. His wife suggested he submit a song for the contest and he wrote it quickly and submitted it on the last possible day. The inspiration of the lyrics was the unexpected joy their adopted children had brought to their lives regardless of all the stress and hardship.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “And they didn’t literally sit with the other writers and write with them for all those co-writes either, James did.”

    I don’t understand why it’s so unbelievable that other Idol alums actually met with other writers to compose songs for their debut albums. James did it and he was signed by an independent label with fewer resources, yet they were anxious to release his album as soon as possible to take advantage of his fans from Idol, just like the winners were treated. I find it totally reasonable to accept that other alums were able to co-write just as James did.

    According to his wiki page, James co-wrote/wrote 4 songs on his debut (plus one bonus track for the Japan release). I do not know what his input was into these co-writes, but it would be believable that he met with his co-writers to compose these songs.

    I don’t understand why you are in disbelief that others have done what James did? What am I missing here?

  • suenigma

    I acty think that one major reason that the Sophomore album takes longer than the debut album, on average, has nothing to do with songs, co-writers availability, etc. Rather it has to do with the Label’s motivation to get it out and strike while iron is hot. I know that Cook had more than enough songs for his sophomore album a full year prior to it’s release. I’m sure there are very convoluted financial, artistic, and timing issues why it took 2.5 years, none of which we are privy to.

    John Rzeznik from the Goo Goo Dolls offered a lite insight into what Cook was going through during that. In h

  • irockhard

    James didn’t sit down and with all his co-writers for all his debut album co-writes. Hardcore Superstar (based in Sweden) sent him Outcast, which he then worked on with Mick Mars. He left his lyrics for Screaming with his co-writers and they finished the song. He did however sit and write Higher than Heaven, Crawling Home and In the Name of Love (unreleased) with the co-writers.

    So here’s what I’m having trouble wrapping my head around:

    [Insert Idol's name] debut album is dropping Black Friday week and they have 5 months to put it together. Are they really gonna write/co-write all their tracks with every writer they want to write with (by physically sitting in the room with all of them)? And then get every producer they want to produce the tracks and every musician they want to play on the tracks? All on such short notice? That’s what I’m not buying. Sophomore album where there’s not set time frame at the start of the process however sure, and those always take longer than 5 months, so…

  • H.A.

    Just because James didn’t doesn’t mean the other Idols didn’t. I know in Adam’s case Barry Weiss said that everyone wanted to work on Adam’s album and

  • irockhard

    Just because James didn’t what?

  • dabney_c

    Was this taken in Toronto? She had a concert here last night, and he’s here tonight for the MMVAs, so they must have crossed paths in the airport or something.

  • H.A.

    James didn’t sit down and with all his co-writers for all his debut album co-writes.

  • H.A.

    Just because James didn’t doesn’t mean the other Idols didn’t. I know in Adam’s case Barry Weiss who was head of RCA at the time said that everyone wanted to work on Adam’s album. RCA gave the top Idols wish lists and made their co-writers available for them.

  • H.A.

    James didn’t sit down and with all his co-writers for all his debut album co-writes.

    Just because James didn’t doesn’t mean the other Idols didn’t.

  • irockhard

    So? Mick Mars said everyone wanted to play on James album but that James chose him.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    OK, so James didn’t meet with everyone who he composed with, but I agree with those who say that the impetus, urgency and resources behind getting the Idol winner’s CD release ASAP are at a whole different level than for an independent label, and that can accommodate making a lot happen in a very short time. Did anyone claim that they were able to get every.single.composer.producer.and.musician that they wanted? I don’t think so. I’m sure that were some who weren’t able to participate, but the label was able to provide a whole lot of them and pay these people to be available when and where they wanted them to be.

    You are assuming that the amount of time taken for the sophomore album is controlled by the difficulty in scheduling “in person” co-writing sessions and some of the delay may be attributable to that, but those difficulties may have a lot to do with less urgency on the part of the label because the sophomore album for Idol alums are often a lower priority for them.

    How many of his debut albums did James sell?

  • H.A.

    If you followed the Idols at the time they were touring you would have known whenever they took breaks they flew to meet their writers.

  • irockhard

    If they can do a debut album almost exclusively of “sit down” co-writes in 5 months surely they can do a similar sophomore album in the same amount of time; but they don’t they take longer, so I’m still not convinced.

  • irockhard

    Same goes James.

  • H.A.

    So I’m not getting what James did or is doing that makes him different than all the other Idols. Debut or 2nd album.

  • irockhard

    I’m not implying that he is.

  • Valarie

    Just guessing, bit I think the original guitarist was let go before work started on the new album, b

  • irockhard

    Yes correct, one of the original guitarists (Dylan) to be specific, Blake’s still there.

  • justmefornow

    Well maybe years ago when Idol was a juggernaut and still a pretty relevant player in the music industry, these debut albums were approached in the music industry as a sure thing.

    All those past winners sold pretty well no? It was pretty well known years ago that the winner’s sales would be better than any other new artist’s debut. That must have been a pretty good risk of investment for those writers and producers. Pretty much guaranteed money.

    Times have changed though, especially seen this year.
    The music industry has changed and the relevance and popularity of Idol certainly has, and not for the better.

    And don’t forget James is on an Indie label with less money for writers and producers, etc, so it’s hard to really compare to those winners’ albums on major labels, IMO.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    It appears that you did imply that James was different by expressing suspicion that the co-writing sessions of Idol winners/runners-up signed to major labels did not involve the participants meeting and working in person, whereas James’ sessions did.

  • H.A.

    If you had followed the Idols when they were on tour you would have seen all the information when they were flying out to meet their co-writers. The Idols were very much involved. I don’t think the long period between album 1 and 2 has to do with how long the writing process takes but more to do with how long the label sits on their ass waiting for when to release the album.

  • irockhard

    Last number from we heard was over 150k quoted stated by an interviewer quoting his publicist in August last year. MOABD still goes up for discounted sales now and then, I’d say by now total sales are about 175k.

  • irockhard

    For their debut albums I’m skeptical, not for their sophomore albums.

  • H.A.

    Yes you did. You implications made it sound like James was a special case. Even with James 2nd album he still isn’t a special case.

  • Incipit

    “…Are they really gonna…”

    irockhard, I can only answer for the artist I follow closely – and other people here follow other artists just as closely.

    In the case of DC, and the RCA albums, the answer is not just “YES” but a thoroughly documented ‘yes’ – from the songwriters AND from DC at the time it was happening. He has only One producer for DCTR, Rob Cavallo, and One producer for TLM, Matt Serletic – one of the bonus songs is switched out at the last minute – and that one has a different producer, Rune Westberg

    He has studio musicians, his producer, (Who played on DCTR) and his good friend Neal Tiemann in the studio to speak for him while he’s on the Idol Tour – and play guitar on the record. They didn’t need more than that…

    For TLM, He has his own band up til almost the end of the process, his producer, (Who played on TLM) and a handful of studio musicians brought in for specialty items (Children’s choir, orchestration, strings, etc. ) and to finish up the record.

    So there’s no problem with multi-producers, doesn’t use them – or getting musicians – LA was/is crawling with available studio talent, if David’s own people needed back-up.

    Where’s the last minute? They planned out the tracks, and what they wanted to do. They had the Producers before they started.

    I’ll bet you James does the same – maps his tracks and plans his time. They’re professional musicians. (And they are paying for this – so time management is their friend)

    Even Wiki has a list of co-writers,the places DC went, and the writers he met with. There is plenty of proof…but if you don’t wanna believe, then you won’t. *shrug*

  • irockhard

    A special case of what?

  • H.A.

    Here’s a behind the scenes video of Adam meeting with Ryan Tedder for his debut album while on tour. This is just one video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YchRPK4NMkE

  • justmefornow

    I think the problem is the debut vs the sophomore albums and not everyone referencing the same albums in their discussions that’s lending to the confusion.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Thanks. I have no idea if 175K is a good level of sales for Wind-up and Jame’s genre of music. Is it? Where do James’ sales fall relative to the other artists on their roster? Did Wind-up expect higher sales given that James came from Idol? They certainly pushed to release Jame’s debut album for Thanksgiving, taking as much advantage as possible of his fans from Idol. For James’ sophomore album, it seems reasonable to me that Wind-up may not have the financial resources to schedule these writing sessions when and where they want, so may have to be more accommodating of the participants.

  • irockhard

    James isn’t taking longer with his sophomore album than any other Idol save Kelly, so what you’re suggesting doesn’t seem reasonable to me at all.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “And don’t forget James is on an Indie label with less money for writers and producers, etc, so it’s hard to really compare to those winners’ albums on major labels, IMO.”

    Yes, a big difference and undoubtedly influences the ability to schedule co-writing sessions optimally.

  • irockhard

    That’s not solving anything for me.

  • irockhard

    THIS.

  • justmefornow

    175k would probably be considered good since they green-lighted his second album when he passed 100k. His sales on Wind-up’s roster are probably upper third I would guess. Some of those smaller bands on their label hardly sell at all, but do a ton of touring.

    I think all of Wind-ups roster are on 360 deals as well, but I’m not 100% sure of that.

  • H.A.

    escape justmefornow • 10 hours ago

    Several of the Idol winners wrote most of their debut CD’s and released it within 6 mos and all of them were touring at the same time. He’s been pretty much fallen off the radar

    irockhard escape • 10 hours ago

    Um no, not every single song. And they didn’t literally sit with the other writers and write with them for all those co-writes either, James did. Availability of the writers, producers, musicians, etc. plays a huge role in the timing of these things.

    You implied that James was the only Idol that literally sat with other writers and co-writer.

  • irockhard

    How does this imply that James is special? I don’t get it.

  • H.A.

    I keep reading that James has a 360 deal. Where is the evidence that this is true. I have not seen this confirmation anywhere.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Thanks for responding.

    “I think all of Wind-ups roster are on 360 deals as well, but I’m not 100% sure of that.”

    So Wind-up’s financial investment in an artist extends beyond just recording and releasing CDs. Interesting.

  • irockhard

    “All those past winners sold pretty well no? It was pretty well known years ago that the winner’s sales would be better than any other new artist’s debut. That must have been a pretty good risk of investment for those writers and producers. Pretty much guaranteed money.”

    Writers don’t really score in album sales, hit singles is where they score and the Idols are having more misses than hits of late.

  • irockhard

    Not surprising for me, it’s a rock label for rock artists and that genre is driven by touring and merch not record sales, and especially not single sales as the rock formats are so small. The only time these artists get huge sales is if they crossover onto pop.

  • justmefornow

    Yeah, that’s how Indie Rock labels survive I guess. With the way the record industry has changed; pirating, streaming, self-producing artists, lower overall sales in general you’ll probably see more major labels signing acts this way in the future.

  • H.A.

    Sorry. double post.

  • irockhard

    The majors have already started to do this when signing new artists, especially those who still need development (i.e. don’t have solid fanbases).

  • H.A.

    Because you find it totally unbelievable that Idols literally sat and wrote with their co-writers but James did. Even after some fans of those Idols told you differently.

  • irockhard

    Yeah and I already said why: cause their sophomore albums take longer.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I’m not specifically saying that James is taking longer with his sophomore album than any other alum, I’m saying that there are valid reasons why everything happens so quickly for debut albums vs. sophomore albums, and just because the sophomore albums take longer doesn’t mean that it’s reasonable to be suspicious of some of the same processes that occurred with the debut albums. It’s a reasonable explanation only if you accept that the entire process of an Idol winner/runner-up releasing their debut album is on an entirely different timeframe and priority level than what is involved in the sophomore album, and this difference will be more apparent when comparing an Idol alum on a major label (more clout, financial resources, etc.) vs. an independent label.

    As others have mentioned, there is an intensity, urgency and high priority level in recording and releasing the winners/runners-up albums as soon as possible to maximize the commercial benefit from the show/tour. So, comparing the scheduling of co-writing sessions for debut albums (and virtually everything else involved with recording and releasing these albums) with any sophomore albums is misguided. Just because sophomore albums take a lot longer than debut albums doesn’t mean that one should be suspicious or skeptical of how quickly everything happened in the production of debut albums to the point of doubting that they even happened (eg. co-writing sessions). It’s simply a case of the label placing a high priority on the debut album (and everything involved in getting that released ASAP) vs. the sophomore album where there is (usually) little urgency and a much lower priority for a quick release.

    Does this make sense now?

  • justmefornow

    Yeah, I agree, except for P2, and he may really be the last exception, I’m afraid.

    I think that “selling-power-ship-of-Idol” has sailed.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I didn’t say that it was “surprising”. I said that it was “interesting”.

  • H.A.

    The time frame from when albums get released has nothing to do with how long the albums take to record. There have been evidence that Idols second albums have been finish at a reasonable amount of time. Most likely a year but the LABEL decides when the actual release happens. There is a pecking order of artists on their rosters and timing of promo to coincide with when their album gets released. Sometimes it can take 6 mos after the completion of the album.

  • suenigma

    “For their debut albums I’m skeptical about all of the co-writes, not for their sophomore albums.”

    Well you can rest easy then, and set aside your skepticism, because there is ample evidence and documentation that Cook sat down, in-person, to write with each and every one of his co-writers. Excluding Bar-Ba-Sol, which was an existing demo that Cook had previously heard and liked, by an Indie band that he admired. Cook and the Label optioned it and he made some changes, hence the co-write. Some might call that a vanity co-write. So that’s 10 co-writes (9 in person), 1 solo-write, and 2 songs that the Label gave to him (Come Back to Me and Light On).

  • Incipit

    “If they can do a debut album almost exclusively of “sit down” co-writes in 5 months surely they can do a similar sophomore album in the same amount of time; but they don’t they take longer, so I’m still not convinced.”

    OK then. If that’s the basis of your problem, I am obliged to tell you, irockhard, your logic is flawed. The circumstances of the debut Label album are different than the circumstances for the second Label album, and people have been explaining that.

    Inductive reasoning, deductive reasoning, The “If we can put a man on the moon’ Fallacy, and the co-writers Red Herring notwithstanding…it doesn’t fly to present your conclusion, ‘the second album takes longer’ – and then try to work backwards – - set up parallels with the debut album that don’t actually occur, and pull in something about the co-writers that has been shown not to be so, to explain a fact that already has good reasons attached.

    My Opinion – and that’s ~30~ for me. *Chuckle*

  • Ria.

    For one thing, they tend to tour in support of the first album. If they promote and tour for about a year, then take some time off, too, then it can be well over a year before they start to focus on the sophomore album. Coming off the show they have probably already started planning out the album and lining up resources. Just a thought.

  • irockhard

    175k is good for a new artist on an indie label debuting in a niche genre. They picked up his next option when he hit 100k (the day he appeared performed HTH on AI11) so that’s what they needed to make a profit. As for a Thanksgiving release, um, see Haley & Jessica.

    And James is next under their biggest names in sales, so he’s in the middle so to speak. They’ll drop several artists before they drop him.

  • H.A.

    fuzzywuzzy

    irockhard

    an hour ago

    It appears that you did imply
    that James was different by expressing suspicion that the co-writing
    sessions of Idol winners/runners-up signed to major labels did not
    involve the participants meeting and working in person, whereas James’
    sessions did.

    irockhard

    fuzzywuzzy

    44 minutes ago

    For their debut albums I’m skeptical, not for their sophomore albums.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    The problem is the assumption that everything involved in the production of an Idol’s debut album (eg. co-writing sessions) happens with the same timeframe as on the sophomore album, and that is clearly not true.

  • justmefornow

    Exactly, that’s why most rock bands will include a song on their albums just aimed for HAC play even though the rest of the album is probably harder.

    And speaking of crossing over, this song “Fly on The Wall” is making a lot of noise and climbing on rock radio lately. I have a feeling this could cross over and be the next type of rock you hear to replace the Mumford & Sons era…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g41mU6rjpsA

  • fuzzywuzzy

    OK then. If that’s the basis of your problem, I am obliged to tell you, irockhard, your logic is flawed.The circumstances of the debut Label album are different than the circumstances for the second Label album, and people have been explaining that.

    Exactly.

  • Incipit

    That’s as clear as it’s gonna get, I think, fuzzywuzzy. The two things being compared are NOT the same at all – and you laid out why beautifully.

    Gotta go watch a movie. ~

  • H.A.

    What makes you think it can’t be done or it hasn’t been done. Your confusing the time frame it takes the label to release the album has proof that the album took that long to make. You yourself said James has written over 40 songs which isn’t unusual but the writing process can be quick.

  • irockhard

    Listened to half, aside from a bit of heavy guitar it sounds like a 90s R&B song. Is Active Rock playing this too or just Alt. Rock? Much of the stuff Alt. Rock plays doesn’t even sound like rock, The Black Keys are one of the few exceptions.

  • H.A.

    THIS!

  • H.A.

    This makes perfect sense.

  • justmefornow

    Believe it or not it’s Active Rock. It’s just a mix of sounds really, some old R&B, maybe, but something about it sounds retro and new at the same time.

    But Active Rock is weird, then they’ll follow this song up with some Slipknot and Godsmack, lol.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Thanks, H.A. and Incipit. I’ve tried my best. Now gonna watch a movie too. lol

  • irockhard
  • justmefornow

    I liked that song by The Heavy, kinda “gospel meets old school rock”, lol. Never heard it before.
    But I also never hear anything remotely like it on rock radio.

    The other song I’ve heard before, and never really liked it.

  • Karen C

    I’m pretty sure there was one on the old design for his site.

  • mmb

    the second albums don’t HAVE to take longer than the debut albums, even if writing everything from scratch. there are plenty of examples of established artists writing an album over 2-3 weeks time. If the artist and label both wanted to get the sophomore album done and released in 6 months or 12 months or whatever, they can make it happen. The issue with Idol sophomore cds is that generally the label and the artist DON’T want to get the album out that fast. The debut album process is so crazy — writing and recording on tour, right on the heels of their Idol experience, then right into promo and then usually another tour. At the end of that 18-24 month period the artist is usually exhausted, mentally and physically. The artist tends to want some time to think about their sound, message — to have some time to sit with the music while recording etc. And the label has their new Idol alum to launch and other priorities as well. So 2-2/12 years between albums has been the norm. But this is also the norm for most current artists (save Rihanna and 1D) — Bruno, Katy, Gaga, Pink, Britney et al generally release on a 2 plus year schedule. Would it be better to get something out faster? Sure. Can the label and artists do it? of course. But generally in the case of Idol alums they don’t

  • Mateja Praznik

    Yep, releasing an album per year is definitely possible. Some X Factor UK alums are doing it. One Direction, Olly Murs, JLS.

    Olly’s schedule was like this: album release in November, promo, UK tour (1 or two months in late winter, early spring), start work on new album in March and have it ready for November. He also did The Xtra Factor. Now that he is trying to go international, he says he isn’t releasing another album this November, but he is still recording new stuff, so they might do a re-release of his 3rd album. He is also touring more (solo tour and now as opening act for Robbie Williams) and he isn’t doing Xtra Factor anymore.

  • Miles (Grumpy) (VI)

    Her dad said on his blog that she has had offers but no deal yet and that she was recording (probably the demos).

    I’d love to know how YSMF is doing.

  • merkureye

    Me too.