Caleb Johnson Final Album Sales Prediction is 10K

Caleb Johnson Album Sales Predictions

The Hits Daily Double album sales predictions are in.

The industry mag predicts, based on sales information from retailers, that American Idol winner, Caleb Johnson sold 10,315 copies of his debut album Testify during its first week. The album landed at #30 on the magazine’s Top 50 chart.

The final prediction stayed in line with the one day forecast, calculated last week, which predicted sales between 9-11K for Testify.

Also releasing a record last week, was American Idol season 8 winner, Kris Allen. His 3rd studio album, Horizons, did not crack the Top 50. The album landing in the #50 spot, Don’t Kill the Magic, by Magic! sold 5,547 copies. Presumably, Kris’s Horizon sales fall somewhere below that number.

American Idol Winner Caleb Johnson “Testify” Predicted to Sell 9-11K

Nielsen Soundscan Numbers are released on Wednesday. We’ll have official totals for Caleb–and hopefully for Kris–tomorrow.

Caleb is still on track to have the lowest first week sales of a post-Idol debut album.

American Idol Winner Debuts – 1st week sales

Kelly Clarkson – Thankful – April 15 2003 –  #1 – 297K
Ruben Studdard – Soulful – December 3 2003 – #1 – 417K
Fantasia Barrino – Free Yourself – November 23 2004 – #8 – 240K
Carrie Underwood – Some Hearts – November 15 2005 – #2 – 315K
Taylor Hicks – Taylor Hicks – December 12 2006 – #2 – 298K
Jordin Sparks – Jordin Sparks – November 20 2007 – #10 – 119K
David Cook – David Cook – November 18 2008 – #3 – 280K
Kris Allen – Kris Allen – November 17 2009 – #11 – 80K
Lee DeWyze – Live it Up – November 16 2010 – #19 – 39K
Scotty McCreery – Clear as Day – October 4 2011 – #1 – 197K
Phillip Phillips – TWFTSOTM – November 19 2012- #4 – 169K
Candice Glover – Music Speaks – February 18 2014 – #14 – 19K

  • Mateja Praznik

    LOL. What a flop.

  • http://www.holyhomo.com/ Rand

    Ouch. Sad and sadly expected. I loved the chemistry at the judges table this season but the talent just wasn’t as strong as other seasons. They need to find a solid winner this time around.

  • girlygirl

    These numbers are a shame, but not surprising.

    What is really sad is that Candice’s and Caleb’s 1st week combined sales of approx 29K are still 10K below Lee (39K). While I can’t put the blame entirely on Interscope, they have to accept some responsibility here.

  • Guest

    Just another average joe male singer from the South. If Jena won, she would’ve been promoted by the label a lot more because her victory song was current and she would’ve revived Idol franchise. Time for people to wake up and realize that Southerners are the only ones watching and voting for each other in this show.

  • girlygirl

    Jena probably would not have revived the franchise. Her iTunes sales weren’t really any better than Caleb’s. And Interscope hasn’t exactly rushed to sign her. The same thing was said about Angie last year and 15 months later, she remains unsigned.

  • Carriefan1

    Yikes! On the bright side, he didn’t get in the single digits. He needs radio play and a music video pronto.

  • Amy Beth

    And even with all that extra promotion, she might have barely equalled Candice’s numbers.

  • girlygirl

    He isn’t going to get any radio play. Interscope would have sent his single to radio by now if they were going to. It costs upwards of 1 million dollars to push a song to radio, and these sales #s do not support the idea of throwing money into that type of promo.

  • Carriefan1

    Hopefully Jena will get signed so we can find out for sure.
    I am still very optimistic about Angie. I think she will get signed in the near future!

  • hc

    Lol. I’m from the south and never voted for Caleb.

  • mineradvantage

    I am actually impressed with the figure. The show is old, no buzz, Caleb is not the most enduring, and the music is mediocre. Selling 10k in this market with those things in your bag is a success in my book. This time next year he will be touring with a cover band where he was intended all along.

  • elliegrll

    I think it’s only impressive in the sense that people who purchased the coronation song, stuck around to buy the album. That is surprising, but it may have more to do with the quick turnaround.

  • girlygirl

    It’s been 15 months and Angie hasn’t been signed. She hasn’t even put out any new music, has she?So what is your reason for optimism? I still think she could be a pretty big star in the Christian music world, but I still haven’t seen any indication that she is going to go that direction.

    I don’t see Jena getting signed by a major label, but we will see. If she does get signed, we should hear something in the next month or so.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Nobody was going to revive the franchise. Sales throughout the season were abysmal even for the “strong” sellers.

    Having watched winners from rival shows have similarly weak debut showings — even when they had much better iTunes sales during their seasons — I don’t believe it’s possible to launch a “big” album on the back of a reality show fanbase any more. It takes a radio hit, which requires a label willing to commit millions to making that happen.

    One winner or another might have sold a few thousand more or less — and certainly any winner would have had a better shot at radio — but Idol’s voters didn’t want a current pop artist. Singing show voters generally don’t want current pop artists, these days.

  • ptslittlecomment

    I am from the South and I never watched a single episode this season. Didn’t even watch many recaps this or last season. Honestly do not know anyone personally who watches the show any longer.

  • elliegrll

    If Jena won, she would’ve been promoted by the label

    I think this is funny, because there was nothing stopping Interscope from signing and promoting Jena. The fact that they didn’t sign her speaks volumes. I think that Interscope has been down this route to know that the poor ratings and lack of buzz meant that it would be very hard to promote Jena or anyone else from last season.

  • Larc

    And there’s no possible way to spin it otherwise. 10,315 would put Caleb’s album at #44 among other Idol finalist debut albums in first week sales. Melinda Doolittle’s Coming Back to You sold 10,852 and Brook White’s High Hopes and Heartbreak sold 9,895.

  • ptslittlecomment

    True. People who watch reality singing show tend to be older ( as discussed here many times) and /or want ‘family-oriented” programming. They aren’t going to be the ones who rush right out and buy or download a song. They don’t have any investment in the “entertainers” on T.V.
    But the big sellers on these shows are the folks who have caught attention outside the Idol bubble. Whether it be because the show was new, or folks were rebroadcasting moments from the show on the news or other programming. Not only was the talent for the past couple of years lackluster on the show, it lacked any buzz whatsoever outside of it.

  • disqus_1wjaGXHz07

    That’s not a fair comparasion. Viewership was higher in those seasons.

  • Carriefan1

    Here are my optimistic reasons: In these fifteen months or so, she 1. Has a songwriting contract 2. toured with Michael W. Smith 3. recently went to Asia in part with Fox International 4. released a Christmas song 5. she is constantly staying busy and, through Facebook, said many good things are coming soon and she can’t wait to tell everybody 6. Her voice is still amazing!

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    If it were a problem with Idol’s casting, buzzy popular The Voice would not have a recent past winner saying “it was a quiet launch” to justify why her label (another UMG imprint) wouldn’t spend on promoting her, resulting in an opening week below 7k. This is an across-the-board issue for reality singing shows, no matter who judges, no matter who’s cast, no matter whether the cast flips songs or belts or whatever.

    Even Alex & Sierra, who are arguably current (the big exception to the pattern!), had an initial pre-order surge consistent with a very small fanbase. Their label is committed to radio, though, so there’s still hope for better opening numbers.

  • Tina

    With the exception of Scotty and Phillip no winner has been able to exceed 100K with their first week sales since David won. It’s not really a surprise that this is happening. I guess the “real rocker” can’t live up to the title.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    What does “real rocker” (bleh!) have to do with sales levels? (If anything, it gives Johnson excuses, since rock album sales are generally weak.)

    Cook said himself that DCTR was “pop rock,” so it’s not like Cook’s sales came from a primarily rock audience. He got no rock radio play, and his big hit was Adult Contemporary.

  • hayes

    As much as I wanted Jena to win, I don’t think she would have done any better. It’s just the state of the music industry plus the aging franchise. I think the Season 13 winner was destined to have the worst first week sales of a winner ever, even if it was anybody else other than Caleb. It wasn’t a very strong cast to begin with.

  • edricstorm2

    Caleb’s songs are generic and forgettable. Shocker.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Comparing to past seasons in eras of higher sales isn’t as relevant as considering whether Interscope has any chance of breaking even. On a normal decay curve, the answer is a resounding no. Without getting an incredible touring gig that drives unusually high tour sales, this album is miles from breakeven under insanely shoestring assumptions, much less realistic ones.

    Interscope doesn’t care about Melinda Doolittle. Interscope cares about its own wallet.

  • girlygirl

    (1) As far as I could tell, her Asia tour had to do with promoting Idol, not herself. (2) Michael W. Smith is a Christian artist, not a mainstream artist, which underlines my point about her being best off if she went the CCM route. (3) Many many artists/songwriters have publishing deals but no label, including several ex-Idols. (4) I’ve lost count of how many Idols who have released Christmas songs, albums, etc. Unless they sell, labels don’t care.

    It’s great that she’s staying busy and making contacts in the industry. Good for her.. But none of this suggests that she’s any closer to getting signed than she was before.

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic of discussion — Caleb :)

  • ptslittlecomment

    But again, no one from The Voice is talked about much outside of that show. (other than on Kathy Lee and Hoda, LOL! I do not watch The Voice either, but whenever I hear anything on any of the other talk shows (other than KL&H) it is all about The Voice judges and what they did last night. Even Kathy Lee refers to The Voice singers by their appearance, not their name.
    Idols used to be talked about all the time. Regular discussion on other talk shows, etc. The View, for instance, often played the best performance of the night on their show. Susan Boyle is another example. She got scads of press outside of whatever Cowell show she was on. People need promotion and buzz and a reason to give any and all of these singers a listen.

  • Karen C

    I know the ratings were lower this season than even a couple of years ago, but I think if there had been a coronation single that became a hit like Home did, the album would have had a better chance. That song was such a big hit, it didn’t matter if it was originally from Idol, or what the ratings were.

  • PAwoma

    I looked Angie up when a video of her was posted here last week. She has put out a couple of singles, for the Christmas holidays. She has done some stuff on the Christian circuit, primarily associated with her fathers church (he is a minister). She did get a publishing deal about a year ago, but I don’t think that went anywhere. There are several videos of her on youtube over the last year, but almost all are again, associated with her father’s church. If she doesn’t step outside that arena soon, I don’t see a lot going for her.

  • Amy Beth

    I’ve been surprised at how poorly A&S’s single has been selling. They managed to get two #1 iTunes singles with the horrible XFACTOR viewership. But Scarecrow hasn’t even approached that, even on release day when you can usually get a temporary bump.

  • girlygirl

    Yeah I hope the A&S fans have realistic expectations, because while I expect them to outsell Caleb and Tessane, I don’t expect them to put up big numbers. If they can do Emblem3/Fifth Harmony type 1st week #s, that would be pretty good.

    There are just too many singing competition shows and too many aspiring musicians coming off these shows. It’s not fresh and interesting anymore. The fact that a current sounding artist like Christina Grimme isn’t exactly burning up the charts with her single suggests that not a lot of people really care about supporting any of the contestants wiith their hard earned $$$. Unless the contestant gets handed a surefire hit single like “Home” which then gets every possible bigtime promo opportunity possible, chances are, he or she is going to struggle. MAYBE if they seem to be current they might get a little more promo, but the labels are going to be very very cautious.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    I think some of the reason that none of these shows has much contestant buzz is that there are so many of them. Idol used to be a special event.

    The couple years of four singing shows a year (XFUSA, Idol, two Voices) destroyed any sense of novelty and specialness. If we hadn’t seen it all before in 2010, by now we really have.

  • Pat H

    Is this also lower than any runner ups? If so, even sadder!

  • girlygirl

    Again, that’s the direction she should go. A Christian label would probably sign her pretty quickly.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    I agree. This would have required Interscope caring at all how to market Johnson.

    While I stick to my position that Johnson could have improved his leverage with the label by showing where he fit with current music — hell, even TPTB tried to get him to do so in top 3, then kept right on pimping when he phoned it in — I’m not sure how much leverage he would realistically have gained when his in-season sales were so low. Giving him a worthwhile coronation single would have meant risk and effort.

  • ptslittlecomment

    I have no argument there. lots of the first few seasons artists’ press came from that alone. But now, it will need to be someone with an amazing voice.and/or stage presence or -GOD forbid – back story to get any traction at all. There has not been any one of Idol the past couple of seasons that I have seen to be a candidate for rising above the fray. and even many of those that do have “IT” ( IMHO Allison or Hayley or both Caseys) most of the time get lost in the shuffle in this world of plummeting record sales. While their voices may be outstanding, their gimmick didn’t get them the attention they need.

  • H.A.

    Well Caleb did say he wasn’t going to make an album for radio play. With no radio play albums sales is no surprise.

  • Carriefan1

    In promoting Idol, she promotes herself. That’s a given. Michael W. Smith is one of the most well known Christian artists and has many crossovers to his name. While still having a songwriting deal, she has the chance to write that one great song that a label might love her voice to go with. Any song recorded is good for her. She can show them off to labels.
    So all points keep me optimistic. (And her facebook posts – that’s the biggest one for me!)

  • Tina

    I’m making fun of Caleb and that he THINKS he’s a real rocker. He would’ve had weak sales regardless of genre. When I say “title” I mean that title that he gave himself AND the title of “The American Idol”. In my opinion David HAS lived up to the title of “The American Idol”. I could care less that David topped the AC charts and not the rock charts. At least he got credit for something.

  • greenamber

    Not unexpected. My thinking this is a combination of really artistically boring contestants…Caleb was especially unoriginal. Mostly older people vote for him because, for the ones that liked him, the enjoyed hearing some of their old favorites sung while watching idol. But they have no reason to spend their money on him when they already own the original rock albums of their youth. This is pretty much the case for all reality shows these days. The fan base is older and has become ho-hum about all these different reality shows. The younger audiences mostly roll their eyes and go do something else. This perpetuates the problem of getting lots of unoriginal contestants and further drives away the portions of the audience that appreciate uniqueness. I’m also convinced that it’s either very difficult for unique (but talented) contestants to make it through the audition process Or there just isn’t that much unique talent out there. This past season had a few contestants with some song writing ability, but none with any compelling stage sound or stage presence. Its like seeing little glimmers of possibility, but nothing shines. The question is, if this had been season 3, would any of them have stood out more. Maybe all of them? Is it that we’re too jaded from watching so many singing shows? I’m pretty sure these guys are just generally boring and it’s not me being jaded, but who knows.

  • Carriefan1

    Well, it’s higher than Kree.

  • lollypop12

    Guess ‘hard rock’ doesn’t sell that much in his case. *Goes to listen to David Cook’s albums…*

  • Tess Herself

    Having been around for all seasons of American Idol I can say, in my book, the last 3 years have been nothing but woefully boring singers with no IT factor and marginal talent even though some had good voices (and I still think that PPs success is because of his two early songs and has nada, nothing to do with him as a performer). Of course the industry has changed, of course the show is getting old and tiresome, of course the genre of TV show is overworked and overplayed…but come on 10K records for someone who sang for some 13 weeks in front of 10 million viewers. Just like last year it is because no one on the show had any IT factor…and you have to have some.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Thank you for clarifying that. I’m sure Cook would be proud of you.

  • THE

    (and I still think that PPs success is because of his two early songs and has nada, nothing to do with him as a performer).

    If that was true, Phillip wouldn’t constantly be getting booked for tour dates. Touring is another way of making money.

  • ptslittlecomment

    Home was a goldmine wrapped in a miracle. It was the right song in the right place to catch fire through commercials and what was happening on the T.V. landscape. Having a smash hit really is more of a miracle than work. Sadly it is that way for all artists. You may be the best out there, but an artist needs an audience to be (commercially successful). Look at Pharrell. His first CD was a huge flop. But let him release a song he wrote fro another artist because he liked it even when it was rejected and the whole music-listening world can sing along.

  • Bunny391848

    At least he can say he did better than Tessanne and other “Voice” people……….

  • http://hightensions.tumblr.com/ Jake

    I stopped watching after last season, so I know nothing about what went on this past season… but DAMN!

  • Tina

    I really don’t need your sarcasm. Thank you very much.

  • justmefornow

    Well at least the people who bought the single, bought the album.
    I think this show is done.

  • mineradvantage

    It has lots to do with sales. 1) how many rock stations exist? 2) if they do exist in markets how many play Idol songs?
    If I am not mistaking I recall Cook describing his record eclectic. Smart, because if someone only knows you from a TV show, you don’t want them to turn away because they are not interested in a certain genre of music or what they perceive that genre to be.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Well, that kinda supports my point. Rock stations have small audiences. Even if Interscope had done anything remotely sensible about a single for rock radio play — which we all knew wasn’t going to happen — there’s only so much it could have done to drive sales.

    This is why I have always said that there’s nothing shameful about going pop-rock for HAC play and CHR crossover if the artist is comfortable with that move.

  • Tina

    I believe that true Caleb fans would be satisfied with any achievement he gets no matter how small. They’ll at least give him credit so far for winning Idol. And the same goes for the fan bases of all the winners. Fans will still believe in “flops” like Taylor and Lee. Even if they’re doing other projects that have nothing to do with music. Or even if they can’t have platinum or #1 albums/singles or Grammys. So that’s how I look at David. If he decided to switch to country music and achieve a #1 country single or album I would be happy.

  • Lori

    Yeah, I’m sure that’s what he wants on his resume LOL

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    I think when it comes to explaining this whole thing, Johnson’s FIRST move should be to get better advice from different people than the ones who gave him his last set of talking points.

    Other than that, “some days, the bear eats you” is all I’ve got, and I’m pretty sure that won’t satisfy interviewers.

  • elliegrll

    I think that the general public has been telling us that they think that most AI alums are boring.

  • girlygirl

    There are a ton of artists who tour constantly who have never had a hit single or big album sales. So I don’t know if this argument holds up all that well. :)

    If Phillip hadn’t been given “Home” and that song hadn’t blown up after being constantly used on the Olympics, he would likely be less successful than he is. How much less? Well, no one can say that for sure. I do think that his ability as a performer accounts for a decent percentage of his success. It wouldn’t be fair to him to think that it is all or even mainly, due to that one song (or even the first 2 singles). But “Home” is still the elephant in the room.

  • girlygirl

    I’m not. The Voice and XF contestants have consistently sold more copies of their cover songs than they have of their original music

    And TBH, while it’s not a bad song, it come out too late to ride the folk-pop-rock wave.

  • lkingcorn

    I believe Interscope would love to have passed on Caleb as well,but obviously could not. Hence, the faster than lightening album that had no,promotion to speak of. Perhaps Interscope is hanging tough hoping for a break through star. These shows are dying a slow death. Time to put them out of their misery.

  • justmefornow

    The album was a fast cash grab on what little AI fan base he had. I’ve said it looked that way a while back, and that’s exactly what it was.

  • halo9125

    Jena would have been promoted by Interscope a lot more? You mean the way they promoted Candice,Haley, Jessica and Pia- all of whom are VASTLY more talented than Jena?

    The bottom line is this: Idol cast a bunch of green, boring contestants with only adequate vocal skills. To make matters worse, they were not particularly attractive or had fabulous personalities. No matter who won, sales were doomed to be low.

  • mitchellvii

    You mean Meatloaf II wasn’t a commercial success? Given the typical Idol demo I’m still surprised Caleb won.

  • mitchellvii

    You know, you gotta hand it to Adam Lambert. He took a second place finish on a fading show and turned it into a multimillion dollar career currently selling out huge venues worldwide with Queen.

    Now if he could just get someone to write him some decent songs maybe he could sell some records…

  • mitchellvii

    Has to suck to finally get your big break on a national stage and still bomb in the end.

  • Mel432

    His first two singles were written by two successful songwriters but both flopped. As it turned out, his own songs were much better, but it was too late.

    Kris won because more PEOPLE voted for him. Period.

  • Adrian Sewell

    He didn’t really sell much and while trying to make himself look like a “credible” rock artist and talking mess about others and still you only sold 10k in your first week? that’s very low and very comical actually.

  • Karen C

    I think it’s a combination of too many singing shows, but also we are not seeing the kind of contestant that really stood out as stars like we had in the past. Instead it’s been there, done that, but so and so was better. I think it’s because the contestants are less experienced than before.

  • Karen C

    Actually, his second single from his album was very successful.

  • Larry C Newengland

    It seems to be a failure for both Caleb Johnson and Kris Allen. Those are bad numbers for both. I thought Caleb Johnson was kind of talented. Kris Allen not so much.

  • Chantey Mann

    slamming David Cook as “not real ROCK”, must be Karma coming back at him.. shame that some very good singers sink their careers with ego even before they get famous…

  • THE

    A lot of the winners were given successful singles. Not everyone who had a hit single had a hit
    album. No matter how great a song Home
    was, people aren’t going to continue to pay to see Phillip live if he wasn’t a good performer.

  • Mel432

    It’s difficult for Kris to sell that many albums w/o a label. However, I disagree and think he is very, very talented. My special snowflake has mentioned that in many interviews. Even Adam’s brother said Kris is very talented (and knowing Neil, he doesn’t throw around compliments very generously).

  • H.A.

    Kris had more votes but it doesn’t necessarily mean he had more voters. There is a difference.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    There’s no sign of Caleb or his album on the Interscope website. I think that they will drop Caleb so fast that they won’t even bother to upload his artist page.

  • sue

    Ouch….not good for a “real rocker”. Not good at all! He should of gone the Daughtry route with a real band or something. lols Who knows? Caleb is a great performer and singer on stage but I don’t see him moving albums. Jena may have fair a little better but her coronation song wasn’t any better. Alex would of done the best in my opinion with his single. That’s probably the only album I’m buying from this crop of contestants. This is sad for the franchise but it was expected with another lackluster season. Hopefully they get it right next season with a great cast. It’s going to take a miracle to turn this around for Caleb.

  • september21

    nice! were 9500 of them from his hometown?
    Wonder what kinda spices he puts on his foot.

  • girlygirl

    IMO Kris is very talented. But without a label, with no song on the radio and with not much in the way of promotion, it is unrealistic to expect any artist to sell a lot of albums.

  • Karen C

    Since Caleb is on a major label and Kris isn’t, and is putting out the album himself, I would say Caleb’s numbers are more of a problem. And I do think Kris is very talented, especially as a songwriter.

  • girlygirl

    That’s very true. But the meme that anything was stolen from Adam is beyond annoying. And honestly, after the first year that one comes off the show, who finished where doesn’t really matter in the big scheme of things.

  • Larc

    The lowest first-week sales for a runner up was 13,351 for Jessica Sanchez’s album Me, You & the Music.

  • girlygirl

    Idol wasn’t a fading show back in 2009.

    And the voting totals did not drop after S8 (they did for S9, I believe, but S10 had more votes than S8 and I think S11 did also), so that suggests that people did not stop caring until S12, really.

    No one had anything stolen from him. Everyone who voted had the same exact opportunity to vote a jillion times if they wanted to.

  • mitchellvii

    Lol, more people voted for Kris? You have absolutely no way of knowing that. As a matter of fact it is well known that Kris’s hometown got together for a massive power texting party. When 1 person can text vote 5000 times it kind of skews the result.

  • mitchellvii

    Yes but Adams loss and how he lost (power texting) was the beginning of the end.

  • girlygirl

    Oh for god’s sake…here we go. :((((

  • Pippygirl

    Actually it wasn’t Kris’ hometown that got him the win, it was me. I got all 250 members of my extended Irish/Italian family to buy 5 phones each and we all power texted for hours. I just can no longer stand Conway getting all the credit!

  • Susan Reiter

    RIP American Idol – no offense to Caleb – I’m sure he’s a talented guy.

  • Larc

    Caleb brings absolutely nothing new and original to the table. He can’t really expect to become a star by sounding and performing the same as many others in his genre who never became stars. Innovators sometimes become very big. Copy cats rarely do.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Every home town has various texting parties for their native sons or daughters, don’t they? If not, then they obviously didn’t have the support.

  • H.A.

    I agree.

  • girlygirl

    lollllll. Well, damn…you mean it wasn’t me? After all, I voted twice for Kris on finale night and just one time for Adam. Are we sure that one extra vote didn’t put Kris over the top? :)

  • H.A.

    But those are the rules. Fair or not. Does it really matter now though. I can never for the life of me understand why people care so much about a title. It’s what you do after the show that counts.

  • girlygirl

    It will be interesting to see what kind of talking points Caleb gets to use in his interviews going forward.

  • H.A.

    Adam should of told his fans he would get naked for them. I bet their fingers would have been bleeding from all the voting. Ha ha

  • Lastwaltz

    Wow, that was faster than the speed of light. Unless they didn’t care enough to make sure it was there for the launch, lol.

  • Lastwaltz

    I’m wondering if he’ll just go home and call it a day. Or does he have a tour planned? Any dates yet? Or intel on band members?

  • Pippygirl

    Stop trying to steal the credit from me. Now I’m going to have to write a tell all book about how I conspired with Kris to get him the win.
    Also if anyone has mysteriously disappeared in the Conway area I think Kris is responsible. They should try digging under Zorro’s doghouse.

  • girlygirl

    Because of the massive promotion that song received. It was used constantly in the Olympics. It was in every commercial/tv promo known to mankind, etc. It was far beyond what anyone else’s singles had received in terms of promo. And because it was the first coronation song that wasn’t crap (and that includes the other fairly successful coronation songs in terms of sales)

    From what I can tell (I haven’t seen him myself yet) Phillip is a very good live performer. And he definitely deserves a good deal of credit for his success. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t totally luck out with his 1st single.

  • Larc

    I agree. Bank deposits are better than bragging rights any day, IMO.

  • MichaelG

    What? But he was so marketable. ;)

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Reminder.

    Please stick to talking about this week’s album releases. Leave the Season 8 voting wank out of it.

  • heartly

    Taking the glass half full approach… it’s 10k more than he sold previously.

  • Q3

    I really do not think this says anything about American Idol — this is more about Caleb and his irrelevant music, and his attempt to be too cool to be nice.

    If AI14 finds someone who is likeable and reasonably talented, and puts out an album that is listenable, then it will sell. Maybe not like in 2008, but it will sell and chart in the top 10 albums.

  • Q3

    Danielle sold 41,000 in her first week — beat both of the last two Idol winners. He did beat Tessanne who only sold 7,000 in the first week.

    I think that Josh Kaufman (the last Voice winner) has a good shot of beating this. He hasn’t started recording.

  • Q3

    I can’t even see the glass! ;)

  • Larc

    And considerably more than he’s likely to sell in any other week. One week plus some hours after Testify dropped, it’s currently #227 at iTunes. That doesn’t bode very well for a long life.

  • Larc

    He may need to check and see if he can get rehired for his old job at the bar in Asheville.

  • Corrine43180

    Why?? He’s like catnip to a certain demographic.

  • George

    I don’t see why labels are even continuing the charade of signing reality show winners. They are not supporting their projects and are losing money on creating the album.

    Maybe the tv shows are fronting the money to make the album with minimal distribution and only need the record label to make the deal look attractive to contestants.

  • Bunny391848

    Cassadee even sold more copies than Danielle which makes them more successful than Caleb, Candace, Tessanne, and Javier. I think Josh can become ‘The Voice”;’s most successful winner but Republic will probably under promote again….

  • elliegrll

    How could this not be about American Idol? I think that the second album drops for every AI alum except two people, Kelly and Mandissa, shows that AI fans purchased the debut albums in order to support their favorite contestant, and not because they liked the music. Even the powers that be at RCA acknowledged that fact. With the lower ratings and lack of interest in the show, it makes sense that people would decide that they don’t need a souvenir this year.

  • Karen C

    I think he did luck out with his first single. Others before him that did well with their first albums were in more popular seasons, and seemed more popular while their shows were on. I think Home being so successful really helped Phillip.

  • Pat H

    LOL! True!!

  • wordnerdarchie

    Someone on twitter pointed out to me that Testify is ONLY licensed to 19 Recordings on iTunes – Interscope isn’t listed. Did they not ever sign him???

  • wordnerdarchie

    I don’t think Interscope actually signed Caleb – they’re not listed on iTunes for Testify, only 19 Recordings is.

  • justmefornow

    But somebody has to be distributing the album. maybe he just has a distribution deal with Interscope?

  • Ria.

    Hundreds of people and maybe even thousands of people might buy an album as a souvenir. Hundreds of thousands or over a million people do not buy the album or single just because the show is popular. They have to also like the music.
    What a lot of fans do not understand is that promotion has a lot to do with why some music has commercial success and other music does not. It is not 100% of the reason. Huge acts can flop with something new that is too far a departure from earlier work, or something that is too same-old-same-old, etc. Unknown acts can strike a cord with something that generates more interest than their promo budget would normally generate. But the general public is never going to even hear the music in the first place if there is not some promo behind it.
    Coming off of idol offers rare promotion potential in and of itself and this helps sell the debut album more so than if the person did not just come off a TV show. But by the sophomore album, they are on a par with other artists who have some name recognition and some past success. They are not in any way in the same position in terms of free publicity that they were in just after the show. This is not unique to Idols and their fans. Few artists ever get to the point where they can sell hundreds of thousands or millions of records even with little promo and little to no radio presence.

  • Incipit

    Well now – that’s an interesting question. But I doubt Interscope is in breech of contract – there will be some glib explanation, no doubt.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Checked Candace’s album too. Only copyright is 19Recordings. Might explain why that release was delayed so many times.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Hmm, but we don’t know what the contract currently is for Idol Winners . It’s been changing through the years.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    It’s never been super-clear what Interscope’s relationship with this season was. They were completely absent until they suddenly had their grubby logo on the winner’s and runner-up’s apparent official sites.

    I’m perfectly happy to shift to blaming 19 for the whole plan — same village, slightly different cast of idiots.

    No matter how much I think Johnson contributed to his own marketing problems, I don’t think I could have looked him in the eye and set him up for the level of failure that his team did. There’s “merciless bitch” and then there’s stuff way beyond my skill set.

  • stef

    His official website has Interscope and 19 listed, and is “all rights reserved” to Interscope.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Interscope might be sponsoring his website on their servers/platform. David Cook still has RCA on his website.

  • stef

    The album is also listed for sale as an Interscope product at both Barnes & Noble and Best Buy online listings. I couldn’t tell at amazon or walmart.com.

    I suppose if anyone here actually owns a copy, we could check the liner notes. Which would rule me out for that research ha.

  • wordnerdarchie

    LOL! So Interscope has the hardcopy rights(maybe distribution only?) but not the iTunes ones. Or iTunes made a mistake? Who knows! I should have checkd the CD that I saw at Walmart last weekend. Darn!

  • Ria.

    Kris Allen is super talented! He has a great voice. He is a good songwriter and performer. He does a great job with light hearted pop songs but he also has some great soulful songs that he performs quite convincingly. He is usually seriously underrated.

  • Corrine43180

    Lol, one can want to support their favorite AND love the music.

  • Q3

    The label is Interscope, the copyright is held by 19 Recordings. two different things. 19 owns this and it is released by Interscope under an exclusive license.

    Original Release Date: August 12, 2014
    Release Date: August 12, 2014
    Label: 19/Interscope
    Copyright: (C) 2014 19 Recordings, Inc.
    Same set up as they had with Sony.

    So yes, Caleb was signed by Interscope — they have to sign the winner.

  • Incipit

    “…one can want to support their favorite AND love the music.”

    Really, so true – that’s a false dichotomy – it isn’t Either/Or! – It can be one, or both, and all in varying degrees.

  • Q3

    Candice was also released by Interscope.

    Music Speaks

    Original Release Date: February 18, 2014
    Release Date: February 18, 2014
    Label: 19 Recordings/Interscope
    Copyright: (C) 2014 19 Recordings, Inc.

  • Q3

    What interviews? Doubt there is much demand.

  • elliegrll

    Paraphrasing Uncle Clive, in the old days the AI fanbase could be counted on to buy 500K albums. After that you can put the emphasis on the promotion and the music. But, as Sony bemoaned about Adam, for many of the alums the promotion for the first album revolves around American Idol, and not the artist or the music.

    Promo for the second alum is necessary, but the second album numbers for many alums, especially the numbers for the second week, would look a lot better if people had purchased the debut albums because of the music. For many of the alums, the music never received enough exposure to result in album sales. That’s one of the reasons why radio PDs ignored the inflated numbers, and didn’t take the numbers as a sign that the alums had actually found an audience.

  • Q3

    Forget about the absolute number — the album will be around #30 on the Billboard 200. That is worse than 10K debut. For comparison: Lee was #19, Candice was #14, Kris #11.

  • elliegrll

    Some do support both. But, AI fans buy the music without the music getting a lot of exposure. It is usually the case for AI alums that the sales of the single far outpace the amount of airplay. It is also the case that the alums see a huge drop for the debut numbers for the second album, as the lose the support of many of their AI fans.

  • Nedsdag

    Two things:

    1. Caleb is a front man for a band, not a solo artist. No shock that the sales were horrible.

    2. I still think that Sam and Malaya will in the long run be the most successful of last season’s finalist. It may take a while along with maturity for this to happen but I stand by this.

    I totally believe the glut of these shows are having an effect on the end result of these shows. How ironic is it that a show that was not as highly rated as AI, TV, or XF has a successful act: Pentatonix (The Sing-Off). Something different will grab an audience.

  • springboard2

    I really think that the winner’s prize should be an attractive lump sum, and contestants should be free from both management and label. Some would get signed, not necessarily the winner, but if they did, and if more than one label was interested, they would have at least a little bit of bargaining power.

    As the contracts for budding artists, not just for reality TV alums, are now, they amount to slavery:
    – TPTB has the right to make the artist release anything they like.
    – They can give artist the amount of promotion they like
    – They can keep the artist signed for long periods while preventing them to release any music
    -They can fire the artist but the artist cannot leave.

    What kind of contract is that?
    It’s about time the entertainment industry is regulated in a similar way to other industries.

  • wordnerdarchie

    They have a different deal with iTunes then than RCA did, because RCA’s name was always listed with 19R on iTunes, now they are not.

  • Corrine43180

    I’m sure Interscope realizes some of that. Scotty’s album has sold less than 25% of what his first did and Phillips album is out of the top 200 and sold less than 10% of his first before dropping out. Maybe those two albums also had a bearing on their effort or lack thereof on Caleb.

    I feel for the dude even though he’s kind of an ass, can’t be feeling good right now.

  • Lori

    Hey, no problem. I’m pretty confident the same CD that you saw at Walmart is still in the same spot ;)

  • Amy Beth

    If PTX had put out an album 3 months after their show finale, it would not have done well.

    It took them time to grow an audience and fan base via YT and other social media. Then they released 2 EPs and a Christmas album on a small independent label. It’s only now that they are signed to a major label and they are still going to put out an EP.

  • Tess Herself

    A quarter of a million albums for a follow up album in a genre where that number is massive isn’t a bad days work for any country singer…and the artist is still a decade younger than any of his contemporaries. Don’t think anyone is crying too hard over those numbers.

    What has gone on “before” has no bearing on Caleb. The guy just has no “IT” factor, and no amount of money can force anyone into believing he does. He is the prime example of how silly the voters on a reality show can be…but then no one anyone got to vote on in Season 13 had anything to offer. All the good candidates got eliminated long before the live broadcasts began. Stupid judges.

  • nncw

    Well the winners and in fact top 10 receive some exposure and garner some fans but I guess there have always been skeptics as to the instant success these shows are supposed to produce, as opposed to earning your dues and learning your trade by going on the road. I recently watched 20 Feet from Stardom and Sting actually criticized American Idol. But more astutely he stated that all the stars have to be aligned to be successful and talent is not a guarantee to success. The movie is very interesting I highly recommend it.
    There’s a bit of a con to these shows with huge audiences and hyperboles that create an illusion of the making of a star but that has been disproved so many times now. I am not disillusioned I still find them sufficiently entertaining and love listening to music.

  • stef

    The last couple of seasons are tough, though I have some hope that Candace will solidify herself in her genre for a long-term career.

    From seasons before that, there are quite a few AI success stories or ongoing careers for a number of the winners and other finalists. Every time I read the mediabase and BBD posts here, they seem to be getting longer ;) Plus the performers who have gone on into theater, television, and other paths.

    Not all of the successful ones will be obvious right away so perhaps there is a lurking star in the past two seasons after all. But I do think with the aging of AI, it hasn’t helped. And a very high percentage of this year’s finalists individually and as a group were hard to like for me including the eventual winner.

  • stef

    I wouldn’t go so far as the slavery analogy, but I think there is something to be said for the lump sum idea. Especially for runner-ups, have an option to sign them to a ‘major label deal’ – but at least give them a chunk of cash to develop their music and put out an indie album.

    Harder for me with the winner if the whole concept is to produce a star, to say they shouldn’t sign them to a label.

    Or perhaps with some of thee shows, they could even let the finalists set up Kickstarter-type accounts during their run on the show when the attention is greatest, and have the show match it for the top few finalists with some extra big goodies for the winner to make winning worthwhile.

  • George

    Absolute numbers is a better metric. Weekly sales position fluctuate depending on who released music that week. Number 1 one week could easily have been number 10 the prior week.

  • Wfish88

    Where did Caleb’s album place on the Rock chart?

  • Lastwaltz

    But forever and ever, the stat will be “and landed on the Billboard 200 at #30″ with no other qualifiers.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Haven’t seen that chart yet, but looking at HDD and artists above Caleb I pulled out a few that might be considered Rock.

    Gaslight Anthem
    Godsmack
    Tom Petty & the Heartbeakers
    Linkin Park
    Eric Clapton & Friends

    Of course, it is entirely up to BB how they want to classify them for the Rock Chart. That’s still a sore point for Cook fans, by the way.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Since both numbers are a major comedown from Idol’s glory days, choosing which one to focus on is simply choosing which disaster to highlight.

  • Lastwaltz

    I know. I flip between annoyance and sympathy for Caleb as I’ve indicated before. If he hadn’t been such an oaf about the real rocker meme, I probably would be all in on the sympathy. But then again, I’m easy, lol.

  • George

    That is true. I just rather look at actual sale numbers rather than relative numbers.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    ITA on it being time to go to cash prizes and let the artists shop for their own contracts. For everybody but the winner on these shows, shopping yourself around is the reality now anyway.

    Plus, we’ve seen how labels handle winners they don’t want (see, e.g., Melanie Amaro/Epic, Javier Colon/Republic, Jermaine Paul/Republic, Tate Stevens/whateverNashville, Candice Glover/Interscope, Tessane Chin/Republic, Caleb Johnson/Interscope). Two of three XFUSA winners, three of five (probably to be four of six) The Voice winners, and the last two Idol winners… there’s a pattern what makes voters watching the TV shows happy has decoupled from what’s easily marketable in the mainstream music world.

  • standtotheright

    I like that idea a lot, actually. Then the album could be presold to people before inertia sets in.

  • girlygirl

    The one advantage of Idol’s downturn over the past couple of years is that the media doesn’t really care anymore, so there probably won’t be all that many articles on how Caleb sold or where he landed on the BB chart.

  • justmefornow

    In all fairness to Caleb, (and I can’t believe I’m defending him AT ALL), but to highlight anything harder than the ballads on a cheesy tour with only backing tracks, would only have made him look even more like a hypocrite and a buffoon.

    Then you add in that totally ridiculous OTT press release on top of it and his hopes of EVER being taken seriously by the rock community are gone forever.
    (But I’m pretty sure he’s at a loss there now anyway).

    As annoying as his is, I still kinda feel bad for the guy.

  • Larc

    I’m not there yet and can’t deny some schadenfreude. Caleb got what was coming to him in a way. But this experience could be beneficial if it puts his feet back on the ground instead of in his mouth. I hope he’s smart enough to learn from it.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    “Getting what he deserved” would have been “not winning.” The problem here is that his buffoonery during the show (including bits during the actual episodes) didn’t reduce his votes to where he wouldn’t win, but the people who were okay with him as a personality mostly don’t want even an $8 memento of his season.

    Lesson to future contestants: You can ride the viewer preference for white boys who rawk to victory, but you still have to build a brand proposition that gets you beyond that niche if you want a career, after. My problem with Johnson’s relationship to Cook isn’t the idiot “real rock” remark (being pop-rock is not an insult) but that he didn’t bestir himself to learn diddly from Cook’s grasp of strategy. THAT mistake is the one that bit him in the ass at album time.

  • Mason

    Following from that argument, if the winners/finalists from the seasons prior to the last 3 years are so much more talented, have the “IT” factor and are vastly more popular, why is it that one after another registered poor sales of subsequent albums after the debut album, got dropped by the label and are now at the fringes of the music industry?

  • Mason

    I agree. I think without “Home” as his coronation single, Phillip would be at Kris Allen’s level in terms of initial success assuming “Gone Gone Gone” is the first single from his debut album. That would not be too shabby considering that he is coming from a later less popular season when Idol was on the decline and facing increasing competition from other reality shows.

  • Trina

    But when you look at it that way Kris had a pretty big hit for his first real single. LLWD wasn’t as big as home but it was bigger than what a lot of winners have had. If having a big first single paves the way for success then Kris probably should have had a successful follow up single and more album sales than what he sold. With Phillip the thing that was really impressive with him is people didnt just buy Home and GGG, they bought his album too which in this day isnt easy.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    And the thing is, attributing some of P2’s success to a wildly popular coronation single is NOT an insult to his skillz.

    From S6 (Sparks) on, the label tried to go with a strong lead single in order to establish the artist outside the Idol bubble. It wasn’t the coronation song in S6-S9, but the basic principle was there.

    Attributing some of P2’s success to Home is therefore saying “hey, the label DID THE RIGHT THING with him” — which is, after all, the label’s job. Figure out what will showcase your artist’s strengths and do that thing. It’s not a slam to the artist that he didn’t have to swim upstream against label incompetence. (If anything, it means the label cared enough to give him a decent team.)

  • Mason

    You have a point there. What I meant to say is that without Home Phillip’s initial success would At Least be similar to Kris’s given similar popularity of GGG and LLWD. Of course it is entirely possible that Phillip might have better sales considering that he was the most popular votes by some margin in S11 of A1.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “followed by a minimal promo campaign seemingly designed to make the artist look like a hypocrite and a buffoon”

    … in which Caleb enthusiastically participated. lol

  • girlygirl

    Well then we go back to the old argument about picking bad 2nd singles, which has long been an issue with multiple Idols. How many of them have seen their momentum come to a screeching halt because the quote-unquote wrong song was chosen as the 2nd single? In Phillip’s case, GGG was clearly the right 2nd single.

    It’s all speculation, of course. There’s no guarantee that Kris, or any other Idol, would have been any more successful if a different song had been the 2nd single. Likewise, Phillip might have been just as successful if something other than GGG had been the 2nd single off his debut album.

    In terms of Caleb, he didn’t even get a first single, really, since the label seems to have no intention of pushing it to radio. So he’s automatically at a disadvantage in relation to all the previous winners (except Taylor, maybe? Did he ever get a single pushed to radio?)

  • sdmama

    Launching a long lasting career, would be a bonus, but I came to conclusion that American Idol is like a movie. Audience like to watch it while it is played, and pay for the ticket (advertisement revenue for Fox), and if they liked it they might buy sound track afterwards. But that is that. As Soundtrack is usually not a long lasting thing, Next year, another movie, and another soundtrack.

    It make sense that how many soundtrack we sell depends on the success of the each movie, not the movie industry in general. Like American Idol is an industry, some years we have duds, some years we have a smash hit. If you consider both winner and runner up and both album and single sales, we had album sales close to 200k and/or platinum single from top 2 every year, except for S9 and last year. 10 out of 12. That’s a good run. Sure, if this year is another flop that is two years in a row, but I am going to wait until next year before I conclude that all the good cast is now signing up elsewhere and no talent to be found amongst who audition.

  • CanadianLady

    >refused to buy music

    There was music I would have bought, but they didn’t have a lot of it on iTunes. They only put up one song when there were two and they skipped the first weeks.

  • justmefornow

    lol. Good question.

    But what I think hasn’t been addressed in regards to Caleb is his looks. He has to be the least attractive of all the WGWG winners. Anyone who thinks that doesn’t matter is totally kidding themselves. It’s a big part of the “it” factor I’m afraid, and regardless of what Caleb thinks it does matter in the rock industry as well. A lot.

    For example, the hottest new hard rock band out there breaking right now is “Nothing More”, I’ve talked about them before. They are definitely the new “it” band in hard rock, (Caleb’s chosen genre).

    This is their charismatic lead singer Jonny Hawkins, and how he looks performing in concert. (Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, lol)…

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    The thing I really, really, REALLY want to know is how much of the buffoonery, both throughout the season and after, was completely Johnson-initiated and how much was various TPTB saying “go big! go outrageous! there’s no such thing as bad publicity! the Jack Black thing is your brand identity!”

    I’m not saying he’s blameless, and he certainly should have pushed back on a lot of issues if he didn’t initiate them… but I liked him in person, and I’m not exactly the friend to all humanity. It’s also totally possible that both things are completely true — that he has no sense of tact in the Idol setting but is fine one-on-one.

  • sdmama

    I agree. The rest of album was surprisingly appealing, and the single truly helped to convince people to get the album: Both those who didn’t who who P2 was without Home, and those who did not like P2 on the show. Sometimes hit single helps, and sometimes it doesn’t. I think Jordan’s smash hit single did not help album sales. I am not sure why that was.

    Which is the real single, is a moot point. In overall scheme of things, “Did anybody from the show that year have a hit single or album in following year before the next season started?” is the real question. And Kris did have platinum single. That’s a success of that year. Adam even had a good album sales. In my book, season 8 was a very successful year.

    Even if the only gold album came from 4th place finisher, I would have called that year a successful year.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    ITA on not getting the songs I wanted from multiple singers. (Boo, TPTB!)

    Thing is, unless we assume that TPTB always chose to sell songs so wrong that they were almost repulsive, the overall sales pattern was just plain lack of buying interest across the board. Alex Preston and Sam Woolf’s spikes into not-actually-embarrassing iTunes ranks were still nothing like the old leaks we’ve seen.

  • Larc

    It looks as if Testify didn’t come in at 29, 30 or 31 on the BB200. Those slots are accounted for in the Hip Hop album listings at HipHopDX. Maybe #27 or #28 with more than 10,457 (#26 sold 11,279)? Or more like #32 with less than 10,244? #33 sold 9,707 and I doubt Testify did worse than that.

  • PAwoma

    Actually the artist makes more touring then they do on CD sales. The Record company keeps most of that.

  • CanadianLady

    This was for me the most annoying season. But the annoying factor wasn’t the contestants – I liked most of them in some way or another. It was the stupidity of the producers from cheating people out of their Golden Tickets in Hollywood right on through to not having a band on tour. The producers seemed clueless as to what real fans want.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Chart Watch: A New Low For ‘American Idol’
    By Paul Grein | Chart Watch – 50 minutes ago

    I think we all owe Candice Glover an apology. A lot was made in February when Glover’s Music Speaks sold a tepid 19K copies in its first week. That was the slimmest first-week sales tally ever for the debut album by an American Idol winner. Glover relinquishes that dubious record this week to this year’sIdol champ, Caleb Johnson, whose Testify sold just 11K copies in its first week.

    Testify enters the Billboard 200 at #24, which is also the lowest chart entry position ever for an Idol champ’s first album. (The old record here was Lee DeWyze’s Live It Up, which debuted and peaked at #19.)

    https://music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart-watch/chart-watch-a-new-low-for-american-idol-192029756.html

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I hated the cruel treatment of the contestants by the producers. It really turned me off this past season.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    It wouldn’t surprise me if TPTB’s dehumanization of the contestants contributed to making sales even lower.

    The seasons that tend to have stuck in the collective consciousness as “that was when it was done first/right/better” not only had more experienced contestants but also had TPTB who largely allowed them to try stuff musically, rather than TPTB who focused on jerking them around to see them crack. Not that the show wasn’t manipulative or artificial (it was! and let us not forget insanely short song lists!), but that those qualities didn’t completely overwhelm the music, as they do now.

  • CanadianLady

    >It wouldn’t surprise me if TPTB’s dehumanization of the contestants contributed to making sales even lower.

    I’d be willing to bet on it.

    For me, the producers did their best to be mean. And that gave a negative impression to the whole thing.

    I like to feel the contestants have a fair chance and things like mentors and so forth helped. Yes, they had huge mountains to overcome, but not stupid random stuff that was there for no good reason. This wasn’t survivor or one of those reality shows.

    I think most fans want to find people to support. And the producers totally forgot that. Or acted as if they did.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I agree. The mean spirited crap left me with a very bad impression as well.