Idol Sales News ‘“ Week Ending 11/15/09

Carrie notches yet another Gold single, Daughtry’s CMA performance vaults onto the chart, two idols post larger than 40% gains and Glee comes back from it’s break and storms up the charts again.

Sales numbers for the Billboard Release Date 11/28/2009 after the jump.

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Download Numbers
14 Carrie Underwood “Cowboy Casanova” 74, 077 (16%; lw 63, 664) Total: 506, 389 (19) **NOW GOLD**
24 Kelly Clarkson “Already Gone” 46, 511 (-2%; lw 47, 293) Total: 710, 169 (25)
56 Adam Lambert “For Your Entertainment” 26, 065 (42%; lw 18, 397) Total: 44, 462 (82)
66 Daughtry “Tenesse Line” 24, 622 (10, 941%; lw 223) Total: 33, 848 (NEW)
80 Kris Allen “Live Like We’re Dying” 21, 402 (45%; lw 14, 754) Total: 119, 553 (103)
176 Kellie Pickler: “Best Days of Your Life” 8, 928 (29%; lw 6, 947) Total: 876.064 (OFF)

Glee:
15 Glee Cast Featuring Chris Colfer “Defying Gravity” 69, 979 (185%; lw 24, 539) Total: 94, 518 (53)
88 Glee Cast “Proud Mary” 19, 209 (NEW) Total: 19, 209 (NEW)
100 Glee Cast “Dancing With Myself” 17, 084 (156%; lw 6, 674) Total: 23, 758 (OFF)
175 Kristin Chenoweth and Idina Menz “Defying Gravity” 8, 960 (363%; lw 1, 936) Total: 275, 265 (OFF)

Please post them as you find them.

Airplay before recurrents removed (increase in audience impressions):
No. 7 – Kelly Clarkson (+6.4 million) – lw 11
No. 151 – Kris Allen (+1.0 million) – lw 168
No. 364 – Jordin Sparks (+0.2 million) – lw 395
No. 584 – Daughty (+2.4 million) Life After You – lw (no info)

Streaming:
No. 10 Already Gone

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

248 Comments

  1. Thanks for the new sales numbers! Any idea when we’ll start to see first day sales for yesterday’s albums? I’m really curious to know not just how Kris faired but also the other high profile releases.

  2. Nice. Some of those increases are probably due to iTunes preorders, but still good to see.

  3. Any idea when we’ll start to see first day sales for yesterday’s albums?

    I seem to recall HDD posts usually start showing up about 1 pm EST.

  4. sr4mjc
    11/18/2009 at 9:31 am
    Not so good for Adam is it?

    A 42% increase looks good to me. Here’s hoping the AMAs give it a bump next week.

  5. Not so good for Adam is it?

    WHile both are not great, it looks like Adam has outsold Kris two weeks in a row without any radio promo, etc. Does radio promo help that much?

  6. Adam’s numbers are better then last week but I will really don’t get why they are not higher.

    Eh screw it – I’ll go back to listening to the album – it makes me happy.

  7. 11/18/2009 at 9:31 am
    Not so good for Adam is it?

    A 42% increase looks good to me. Here’s hoping the AMAs give it a bump next week.

    Looks good to me too. Look at Daughtrye’s numbers. Is this for a new single? I don’t to make a mistake like I did last week with Carrie’s bonus track! :) It seems to me these are what the sales numbers are like now.

    I’m just happy we will finally figure out that mystery ITUNES pass to see how that threw a monkey wrench into Kris’s singles sales. This whole season has been confusing.

  8. I choose to look at the positive. A 42% increase is good w/o any real promotion. Let’s judge his #’s after the AMA’s.

  9. I’m just happy we will finally figure out that mystery ITUNES pass to see how that threw a monkey wrench into Kris’s singles sales. This whole season has been confusing.

    Explain this to those of us that are new and ignorant to the whole thing.

  10. Not so good for Adam is it?

    Well, it pretty much seemed the consensus of the majority of people from all fan groups that Kris’s two week total sucked (and it was from 10 days as opposed to 14 or 12 or however you chose to measure the release date). Here those are:

    63 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  23,552 (49%; lw 15,755) Total: 39,307 (93)

    If you factor in that Adam’s numbers include more days and pre-orders, then it’s in the same boat as Kris’s numbers.

    The good news is that the albums are being released. All Idols are conjoined at the hip (especially Idols from the same season), so any press from one will help the other. Plus, Adam will have a lot of promo next week. So, FYE’s third and fourth weeks will be much higher than LLWD’s were. The bad news is that the single is going nowhere on radio so once the promo stops, the sales will likely follow those for TfM (which may pick up since it got some adds this week).

  11. Kirsten, are Pickler’s numbers correct? 876,000? If so, who would have guessed? Go Kellie.

  12. WHile both are not great, it looks like Adam has outsold Kris two weeks in a row without any radio promo, etc. Does radio promo help that much?

    Don’t know about promo, but radio play sure would help the both of them. Kris chart position increased with the album release, LLWD and the album moved up the charts yesterday, so maybe Adam will bump up more on the singles side too when the album is released *shrugs*

  13. Does radio promo help that much?

    We’ve seen ample evidence of this.

    LLWD has some airplay and bottoms out around 150 on iTunes and then surges once airplay reaches a tipping point (prior to video being televised or Conan performance).

    TfM has no airplay, but a little bit of support from some association with the biggest movie of last week and bottoms out in the 250s (and surges once that movie starts airing).

    FIBOU has virtually no airplay and tanks down to 534.

    Television trumps radio for moving sales in the short term (as we can see by Glee and the CMAs, the effect seems to last about 3 to 4 days), but because radio keeps churning along week after week getting exposure for a song, it helps sustain longterm sales. An example of this is “Already Gone” slowly clambering up the sales charts in step with it’s airplay growth.

  14. Thanks for all the responses. Maybe the AMAs will help, but what an odd rollout this season.

  15. Kirsten, are Pickler’s numbers correct? 876,000? If so, who would have guessed? Go Kellie.

    They are correct. That song did fairly well in iTunes over the summer and got another surge from the CMAs. That was the song she co-wrote with Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift can’t sing live, but the girl sure knows how to write a hit.

  16. If you factor in that Adam’s numbers include more days and pre-orders, then it’s in the same boat as Kris’s numbers.

    I thought Adam’s only included 10 days. Didn’t Brian confirm last weeks numbers did not include AO? Are we going to re-hash that again? Bottom line, both are not great and Adam is doing as well as Kris without any radio promo.

  17. Looks good to me too. Look at Daughtrye’s numbers. Is this for a new single?

    No. That is for a song he performed on the CMAs. It’s not on any album.

    The labels have gotten smart and have started releasing these one off performances (perhaps inspired by Idol itself) because people want them. Either they’ll rip their own version or you can sell it to them. They just do a bit of clean-up on the audio and then they are making money. Win-win for everybody.

  18. Kirsten is right on the money. The next three weeks will be chock full of Idol promo and that should help everyone from S8.

    I still don’t understand why RCA “wasted” the past 2 weeks of Adam promo on magazine articles/covers. You’d think they would have wanted some radio promo. Well they’re the pros…

    HDD should have an early prediction for Kris’ album sales today. That’ll be interesting.

  19. Are there any numbers from WDYWFM? Didn’t it go on sale over the weekend at AO?

  20. I just don’t get it. fye is as cool, if not cooler, than a lot of stuff on pop radio, Adam gets so much support from the media, major artists want to work with him, why don’t radio stations want to play his new song?

  21. No. That is for a song he performed on the CMAs. It’s not on any album.

    Actually, the Daughtry song is on “Leave This Town”. I love the song; I’m happy to see it received a good response after the CMAs.

  22. WHile both are not great, it looks like Adam has outsold Kris two weeks in a row without any radio promo, etc. Does radio promo help that much?

    The first week sales of any single, especially singles released by idol alums have nothing to do with promo or radio play. These sales, just like Kris sales, the Davids sales, etc., are due totally to Adam’s AI fan base.

    But, after this honeymoon period, an artist needs promotion, but especially airplay in order to connect with people who aren’t just buying an album because of who an artist is, or because a singer appeared on a reality tv show. Obviously, any single’s, whether it’s FYE or LLWD, sales will fall if people are not aware of a song, and the most effective way to make people aware of the song is radio play.

    If I was an Adam fan, I’d be more worried about FYE’s lack of spins, as well as the fact that the song failed to get one maual add this week, and not what Adam’s song is doing against a song that’s been out for almost two months, and which is doing a whole lot better on the radio.

  23. I thought Adam’s only included 10 days. Didn’t Brian confirm last weeks numbers did not include AO? Are we going to re-hash that again? Bottom line, both are not great and Adam is doing as well as Kris without any radio promo.

    10 days? I don’t see any math that would make it 10 days. If we decide that AO numbers are not included (and I don’t agree) we start from when the single was released to iTunes. That was on Wednesday. That gives it 5 days the first week and 7 days the first. And wasn’t it available on Amazon even earlier than iTunes? So, 12 days at least.

    Bottom line, both are not great and Adam is doing as well as Kris without any radio promo.

    I thought we established on the Mediabase thread this week that Adam’s airplay was the same or greater than Kris’s was at the same point in the single’s history. Kris wasn’t doing radio interviews at that time either because he was recording in London. They really are following very similar paths. They’ll diverge this week because Kris started getting an uptick in radio spins during his third week and Adam will start television promo in his third week (AMAs occur within this week).

  24. Sorry if this is OT, but how many songs did Kris and next Adam get to sing at the GMA concert?

  25. A 42% increase looks good to me. Here’s hoping the AMAs give it a bump next week.

    Exactly! The numbers are going up. Thats the important thing (to me at least). I’m actually more curious to see how their albums move. There are people who sell singles and get a lot of radio play, but their albums don’t really sell much. It’ll be interesting to see how this group of Idols do in that regard.

    The Glee songs are really selling. Its amazing how people are buying kareokee cover songs because they come off of a popular show. Fads I tell ya! lol

  26. Actually, the Daughtry song is on ‘Leave This Town’ .

    Oh really? I did not know that. Thanks for the correction.

    Anyway, it’s not his new single. That’s seeing a rise from being played on the CMAs.

  27. HDD should have an early prediction for Kris’ album sales today. That’ll be interesting.

    Yes! Is Kris still in the top 10 of Itunes?

  28. Not so good for Adam is it?

    I’m just relieved that this weeks numbers were higher than last weeks. It might not be doing well, but it isn’t out for the count just yet.

    I’m more curious about Daughtry’s numbers. How does 24,622 + 223= 33,848??? I get that they’re calling it new because 223 lw numbers were probably from itunes or someone making it available before midnight. Or is that 223 really the prvious weeks number and the reason the total is higher despite it being marked as NEW because it had been for sale but just not charting before this?

  29. Happy to see the 45% increase for Kris. And Adam is doing well too given the fact that his song is not that played on the radio.

    No big numbers, but i got the feeling that they will be more album sellers than singles sellers… I hope so

  30. I see Take One is at #123 on iTunes.

    So I think the Daughtry song is on the album but not as a single. It’s just a regular album track.

  31. The Glee songs are really selling. Its amazing how people are buying kareokee cover songs because they come off of a popular show.

    Every year, I buy a couple of tracks off of Idol, so I can’t point fingers.

    Exactly! The numbers are going up. Thats the important thing (to me at least).

    Some of that increase is from the pre-orders, though. They’ll be returned on Monday when people download the album. This week’s increases may have more staying power.

  32. jms- Daughtry’s album has been available since July so that’s probably the case.

  33. I’m more curious about Daughtry’s numbers. How does 24,622 + 223= 33,848??? I get that they’re calling it new because 223 lw numbers were probably from itunes or someone making it available before midnight. Or is that 223 really the prvious weeks number and the reason the total is higher despite it being marked as NEW because it had been for sale but just not charting before this?

    It’s an album track (as I just found out), so it’s been available for sale for weeks.

    I’m just being lazy this morning. SS reports in some odd teletype format (which I correct so humans can read it more easily). The field for percentage increases only holds 3 digits, so when you see a huge increase like that, it results in 999% which is not right. I thought it was a newish song so I just labeled it as new. I generally correct the 999% to the real percentage (which is 10,941%). I’ll fix it now.

  34. Everyone also should take into account that both FYE and WWFM are being given away with album purchase.

    And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    So Rca must really be focusing on album sales. Personally, I NEVER purchased 2 copies of an album like I have for Adam. How many people are doing that to get the extras. Excited to see what his album sales are 1st week(crossing fingers)

  35. And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    Will those numbers be part of the first week of sales after the album is released?

  36. I just don’t get it. fye is as cool, if not cooler, than a lot of stuff on pop radio, Adam gets so much support from the media, major artists want to work with him, why don’t radio stations want to play his new song?

    Well, tons and tons of songs are cooler than most of the stuff on pop radio! Being cool doesn’t get you played on radio, most of the time. And exactly what does get you played on radio remains kind of mysterious, seems to me.

    I don’t think it’s out of the question that both FYE and LLWD will do better on radio than they’re doing right now. The styles of both are pretty “radio friendly,” in my opinion. By the same token, I think it’s completely possible that they both might also have hit their peaks already, when it comes to radio play.

    Maybe it’s just a lot harder to break in as a new artist in the current economic climate — I’m sure the economy and shaky ad revenues and such are making radio a lot more conservative about introducing new stuff than usual, and heaven knows they were already way conservative. ….

    Maybe there is more skepticism right now about how long-term-commercially-viable-for-pulling-in-radio-listeners people are who only got their recording contracts because they placed high in a contest on a tv show whose audience demographic skews toward middle-aged women.

    Maybe that skepticism is especially strong when it comes to Adam because he’s a guy — and a gay guy at that — performing the kind of pop that women mostly perform in America. Unlike Daughtry and Carrie, for example, he doesn’t fit a niche that’s already been firmly established — the blonde, sweet country singer and Nickelback. …

    Maybe Kris is doing a little better with radio play partly because he *does* fit an established niche — cute, straight, soft rock, singer-songwriter guy. However, that niche doesn’t produce many top 10 songs these days, so far as I can tell. Top 20-30 is about as high as most of those songs go — and, actually, Kris is approaching that level already.

    On the other hand, maybe the AMAs, Letterman, etc., will turn the whole thing around for FYE and suddenly radio will discover it. It’s happened to other people.

    Am I the only one who thinks that the ways of radio are pretty much complete opaque and nearly impossible to predict?

  37. Top 40 songs below 50 today:

    60 52 DAUGHTRY Life After You 554 251 303 1.593
    61 63 JASON CASTRO Let’s Just Fall In Love Again 247 251 -4 0.438
    68 65 ADAM LAMBERT For Your Entertainment 200 155 45 0.625
    84 76 ALLISON IRAHETA Friday I’ll Be Over U 89 75 14 0.107
    — 80 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 82 0 82 0.366

    I think LLWD will continue to sell modestly because it’s radio play is growing. FYE will get buzz from the AMA but radio is not playing it. The song actually has less audience this week than last. Maybe that’ll change next week. It’s possible.

  38. I don’t understand what the numbers mean in front of the artists name.

    Current ranking on the download chart. Carrie had the 14th most downloaded song last week. The number in brackets at the end is the ranking the previous week.

  39. And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    I think that was only for Amazon.

  40. I thought Adam’s only included 10 days. Didn’t Brian confirm last weeks numbers did not include AO? Are we going to re-hash that again? Bottom line, both are not great and Adam is doing as well as Kris without any radio promo.

    Brian didn’t confirm this. He said that he thought the song was only available for five days, but this isn’t true, the song was available for five days on itunes, but it was released on time on Amazon and other online retail sites, as well as AO. The problem that some seem to be having is that they don’t realize that sales of the album are not the same as sales of the single, so someone buying the album on Adam’s site wouldn’t make a difference to somone only buying the single.

    Either way, I don’t think that’s the main point. The point is that Adam’s numbers are pretty much identical to the numbers that Kris put up during the same time period, which more than indicates that their fan bases are the same size, and that neither is benefiting from the traditional AI bump. It’s no big deal, except to those who feel that their opinion is validated by being in the bigger group. It’s also not the end of the world for either Adam or Kris, and just shows that they need to work hard to establish themselves, and to connect with people who will support their music. Adam’s sales numbers are nothing to worry about, his lack of airplay is.

  41. I thought we established on the Mediabase thread this week that Adam’s airplay was the same or greater than Kris’s was at the same point in the single’s history. Kris wasn’t doing radio interviews at that time either because he was recording in London. They really are following very similar paths. They’ll diverge this week because Kris started getting an uptick in radio spins during his third week and Adam will start television promo in his third week (AMAs occur within this week).

    Hmmmmm…. I’ve been trying to ignore any direct comparisons. Sounds like I should be paying more attention. I’m finding this post season analysis enlightening.

  42. And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    I think that was only for Amazon.

    …which actually could be *bad* news, since isn’t it true that Amazon’s main buying demographic is older people? Having a lot of older people buy your album won’t entice radio to play you, unfortunately!

  43. And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    Amazon presales.

    So Rca must really be focusing on album sales.

    That’s why RCA can’t be happy with the way the single is doing. How is the album going to sell after the first weeks without a single on radio?

    Already Gone should hit platinum at some point, which is great after IDNHU’s underperformance.

  44. Adam’s FYE sales are still to his fan base, since no new audiences are hearing it on the radio. The hope for FYE needs to be that the AMA performance somehow convinces reluctant program managers to add and spin the song on their stations. Otherwise, the AMA will just be a one-off promo event that will spur album sales and some single sales, but will not be a sustaining event for FYE the single. If the adds don’t come even after the AMA performance, then RCA & Adam will need to pick another single quickly to capitalize on the momentum from the appearance.

  45. I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    That was for Amazon, IIRC, and Amazon isn’t a huge share of the CD market. Just to put that into larger context.

    And no, those numbers for Adam weren’t great, though better (thankfully) and in large part, I think, due to pre-orders of his album or the boost from that. There won’t be a boost like that given to the single this week. Though I agree that Kris’s album release seems to have lifted Adam’s single up from the 80s to the 50s. Certainly it’s not from radio play or any other promotion.

    Which we’ll see if the AMAs or promotion next week helps (fingers crossed)

  46. I hope someone can help refresh my memory on how much “Permanent” sold after David performed it on Idol. I was on vacation at the time so I missed the finale, but I know it did well. (Maybe because it was for charity?) I’m almost sure it did better than the song Daughtry performed at the CMAs. Here’s hoping Adam sells as much, if not more, after his performance of FYE at the AMAs.

    On another note, it’s DCTR’s first year anniversary! Wow, I remember the angst I went through last year! I think I lost close to 10 lbs. worrying about David’s sales. LOL.

  47. I thought we established on the Mediabase thread this week that Adam’s airplay was the same or greater than Kris’s was at the same point in the single’s history.

    I don’t know how that was established, but it’s neither the same or greater.

  48. Adam’s considered a visual artist. People haven’t seen him on TV performing since Idol, when he was getting huge buzz. The AMA’s will bring him the spotlight he needs. Even though several artists are hotly anticipated and will bring their best acts, Adam will be seen by many for the “first” time. Do you remember what it was like the first time you discovered Adam?? That will give him a special edge. I believe he’s coming to take no prisoners and people will be talking about him the next day, just like the Kiss performance after the finale.

    I am surprised that single isn’t doing a little bit better, but he is a new artist and is performing on par with that. We shouldn’t have overblown expectations–at least not until the AMA’s. If FYE still doesn’t do well, we’ll have to hold the wake. Then it’s on to WDWFM, which has every chance of being a big mainstream radio-friendly hit. He’s not dead in the water by any means, even if FYE doesn’t work as a single.

  49. Do international album sales ever get reported?

    They get reported in their own countries, and there are Billboard charts and such for each country. I don’t know that anybody reports aggregated worldwide sales except maybe at the end of a year or something.

  50. Last year the Davids helped each other in sales. So I expect the same from Kris and Adam. Anything that reminds people of S8 is a good thing. Most people just completely forget about Idol once the season ends.

  51. And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    You left out the qualifier, this is reference to Amazon, a site that doesn’t sell a lot of albums or singles, that makes a heck of a difference. I’m not saying that Adam may not set some record for the site, but keep things in perspective The sales numbers for TFM and FYE should tell people not to get their hopes up. Pre-order or no pre-order, it’s a good guess that Adam’s numbers won’t rival the numbers put up by previous AI alums.

  52. “And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    I think that was only for Amazon.

    ‘ ¦which actually could be *bad* news, since isn’t it true that Amazon’s main buying demographic is older people? Having a lot of older people buy your album won’t entice radio to play you, unfortunately!”

    Don’t forget international purchases. Amazon sells CDs and books everywhere.

  53. alaadam
    11/18/2009 at 10:18 am
    Adam named in People’s Sexiest Man issue, courtesy The Advocate:

    I saw where Daughtry made it too. I thought Kris and Cook made it but don’t see them on the People’s website. ANyone know?

    No idea – just quickly skimmed the link and wanted to get it up here so it could be included in MJs headlines. :)

  54. Kris & Cookie were in the original top 100. Don’t know why now they have 109. Guess their choices change all the time. Honestly don’t know who does the choosing, but some are their picks are yuk.

  55. Last year the Davids helped each other in sales. So I expect the same from Kris and Adam. Anything that reminds people of S8 is a good thing.

    I’m sure this is a good thing for both of them in the end but during this week, before FYE the album is released, Kris’s album release is actually giving a boost to Adam’s pre-idol demo song album-a-thingy…

    And I’m afraid it’s muddying the waters even more. For example, people have been reporting that the Take One album is displayed next to Kris’s album in some stores. If you haven’t been following the idol news, some people may just think that it’s Adam’s “real” album.

  56. The Glee songs are really selling. Its amazing how people are buying kareokee cover songs because they come off of a popular show. Fads I tell ya! lol

    Except they’re not really ‘karaoke cover’ songs. They’re newly-arranged versions (“covers”) of popular songs from a variety of genres. Some are more faithful to the originals than others, but they’re all well-produced and well-performed. I’ve bought several of them myself and credit the Glee people with introducing me to some great tunes that I was unfamiliar with (“Gold Digger” and “Take a Bow”) or had no interest in in their original incarnations (“Dancing By Myself” and “Taking Chances”).

    Glee, IMHO, is doing what the best American Idol contestants have done in the past: present a new spin on a popular tune (“Draw the Line,” “Billie Jean,” “Ring of Fire,” “Heartless”) and, occasionally, give a relatively unknown, great song a huge platform (“Hallelujah,” “Falling Slowly”).

    Glee may be “popular” (it’s ratings are good, not great, BTW), but that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the reason people are buying the songs. Sometimes folks just buy a song because they loved what they heard, and they want to hear it again!

  57. Well, after listening to Adam’s amazing album yesterday, I am just sorry that he is going to be releasing it without the assist of a big chart single to support it. That is a shame. Most albums, it seems to me, have an identifiable single attached to them by the time of release. RCA should have had the single out in early October with promotion.

    And can someone tell if they have anything lined up for Adam after AMAs, GMA, Letterman, and Ellen? Is that it? Heck, Oprah basically—on air— invited Adam back to sing when his album came out. Shouldn’t RCA get on that? And forget Details and all the hoopla with Out, because, how many people in the real world are even aware of either? Gee, RCA, get to work and get Adam an article in People or something (they are a weekly publication, I am sure Adam would be an easy sell). What about a concert somewhere when the album drops? If they don’t want the Jingle Balls fine. But get him something else. Cook at least had something at The Hard Rock. And maybe a morning of radio interviews, lol?

    Sorry about the rant, but Adam has a pretty amazing CD to sell. It is time for RCA to get on the ball.

    Oh, and does anyone have any idea how he is going to sing FYE in the small studio at GMA? Seems the single was picked specifically for the AMAs (and the people involved may have even pushed for it, since it will make for a pretty big deal), but how do you scale that song back for in studio promotional performances?

  58. This is not the final week it is at 51 weeks but here are Billboards top selling albums for the chart year 2009 which runs from December to December:

    Week 51

    BILLBOARD 200

    Rank – Wks – Sales 000 – TITLE – Artist
    001 – 51 – 3,618 – FEARLESS – Taylor Swift
    002 – 51 – 2,475 – I AM’ ¦SASHA FIERCE – Beyonce
    003 – 51 – 2,381 – DARK HORSE – Nickelback
    004 – 51 – 2,020 – TWILIGHT – Soundtrack
    005 – 33 – 1,630 – HANNAH MONTANA: THE MOVIE – Soundtrack
    006 – 42 – 1,607 – CIRCUS – Britney Spears
    007 – 39 – 1,590 – 808S AND HEARTBREAK – Kanye West
    008 – 51 – 1,559 – THE FAME – Lady GaGa
    009 – 25 – 1,505 – RELAPSE – Eminem
    010 – 22 – 1,328 – THE E.N.D. (THE ENERGY NEVER DIES) – Black Eyed Peas
    011 – 51 – 1,320 – ONLY BY THE NIGHT – Kings Of Leon
    012 – 09 – 1,238 – THE BLUEPRINT 3 – Jay-Z
    013 – 44 – 1,236 – DAVID COOK – David Cook

    They have not updated David Cook’s record sales to reflect that he has in fact sold 1, 300,000 copies according to reuters. #13 for the year is pretty good and David is in good company.

  59. Don’t forget international purchases. Amazon sells CDs and books everywhere.

    Adam is not an internation artist yet. Maybe in Canada his sales will be good, but in the rest of the world he’s yet unkown.
    People all around the world watch American Idol, so there are always a few sales in other countries, but nothing relevant, unless your music makes it big there, which isn’t the case.

  60. I hope someone can help refresh my memory on how much ‘Permanent’  sold after David performed it on Idol.

    I think it sold 103,000..

  61. Adam named in People’s Sexiest Man issue, courtesy The Advocate:

    I saw where Daughtry made it too. I thought Kris and Cook made it but don’t see them on the People’s website. ANyone know?

    I doubt they post everyone or their ranking on their site.

  62. Aside from the historical sales data that Amazon is only a small portion of the US market for CDs, take a look at the artists on the bestsellers list above Adam’s disc:

    Susan Boyle
    Norah Jones
    Andrea Bocelli (Christmas album)
    John Mayer
    Michael Buble
    Paul McCartney (concert)

    This is essentially a “classy inoffensive albums for people 40 and older” market. Nothing wrong with that market, at all. But it’s not Hot 100 material. If Adam is going to sell to the market that makes huge CHR hits, it’s not happening on Amazon.

  63. Adam’s considered a visual artist. People haven’t seen him on TV performing since Idol, when he was getting huge buzz. The AMA’s will bring him the spotlight he needs. Even though several artists are hotly anticipated and will bring their best acts, Adam will be seen by many for the ‘first’  time. Do you remember what it was like the first time you discovered Adam? That will give him a special edge, as long as he brings IT. I believe he’s coming to take no prisoners and people will be talking about him the next day, just like the Kiss performance after the finale.

    I hear this a lot about Adam, and some people have even said that Adam doesn’t even need radio, because he can make a lot of money off touring. As I recall Taylor Hicks’ concerts were ranked in the top 15 as far as bringing in the most money, during the year that he won AI, and as we know, no radio stations played Taylor’s music. But, the problem is that those tickets were purchased by his AI fans, and without having the constant reminder of Taylor or his music via radio play, that base dwindled as the new season of AI caught their attention.

    Adam can’t be on tv every week or every day, and without a single on radio, not only will he be out of the minds of AI fans, but those in Hollywood who are falling over themselves to talk to him, will also get bored and move on to the next big thing. Despite what some have said, namely Brian Mansfield, having music that people want to hear is just as important for Adam’s career as it is for Kris’ and anybody else’s.

  64. Adam’s considered a visual artist.

    If he’s only considered as a visual artist he’ll be in trouble with radio. People need to view him as more than a visual artist if this is the case.

  65. Adam’s FYE sales are still to his fan base, since no new audiences are hearing it on the radio.

    Not completely accurate. While true it isn’t getting much play overall, it is getting played and played frequently by a few stations making those audiences more likely to purchase. Of those, KISS-SiriusXM, has played it 71 times since they first spun it on Nov 9 (9 days ago = ~8 spins a day) and it’s currently ranked at number 17 on their play list. Are Sat radio listeners more likely to purchase music than regular radio? I don’t know the answer, but I suspect that may be the case as they’re willing to spring for Satellite radio. Also, how do we quantify that audience? I’m assuming that audience impression numbers can’t be gathered?

  66. Waffle

    This is posted on DCO. I believe it is a partial total, since no sales figures were released after it fell off of the billboard charts.

    PERMANENT (off charts) – Last known total = 167,104

    Pre-finale total: 13,513

    The week of Season 8’s finale it sold:
    Charity single – 39,000
    CD track – 64,000

    2nd week following live performance:
    Charity single – 22,000
    CD track – 10,000

    ETA: Trina, your memory is correct. Wow, can I borrow it once in a while? The following week Permanent went on to sell 33,000 but we’ve gotten no sales figures since.

  67. 123abc456
    11/18/2009 at 10:24 am
    This is not the final week it is at 51 weeks but here are Billboards top selling albums for the chart year 2009 which runs from December to December:

    Week 51

    BILLBOARD 200

    Rank ‘“ Wks ‘“ Sales 000 ‘“ TITLE ‘“ Artist
    001 ‘“ 51 ‘“ 3,618 ‘“ FEARLESS ‘“ Taylor Swift
    002 ‘“ 51 ‘“ 2,475 ‘“ I AM’ ¦SASHA FIERCE ‘“ Beyonce
    003 ‘“ 51 ‘“ 2,381 ‘“ DARK HORSE ‘“ Nickelback
    004 ‘“ 51 ‘“ 2,020 ‘“ TWILIGHT ‘“ Soundtrack
    005 ‘“ 33 ‘“ 1,630 ‘“ HANNAH MONTANA: THE MOVIE ‘“ Soundtrack
    006 ‘“ 42 ‘“ 1,607 ‘“ CIRCUS ‘“ Britney Spears
    007 ‘“ 39 ‘“ 1,590 ‘“ 808S AND HEARTBREAK ‘“ Kanye West
    008 ‘“ 51 ‘“ 1,559 ‘“ THE FAME ‘“ Lady GaGa
    009 ‘“ 25 ‘“ 1,505 ‘“ RELAPSE ‘“ Eminem
    010 ‘“ 22 ‘“ 1,328 ‘“ THE E.N.D. (THE ENERGY NEVER DIES) ‘“ Black Eyed Peas
    011 ‘“ 51 ‘“ 1,320 ‘“ ONLY BY THE NIGHT ‘“ Kings Of Leon
    012 ‘“ 09 ‘“ 1,238 ‘“ THE BLUEPRINT 3 ‘“ Jay-Z
    013 ‘“ 44 ‘“ 1,236 ‘“ DAVID COOK ‘“ David Cook

    They have not updated David Cook’s record sales to reflect that he has in fact sold 1, 300,000 copies according to reuters. #13 for the year is pretty good and David is in good company.

    Interesting that there are 2 sound tracks listed. Music really is being promoted in so many different ways than 10 or 20 years ago (prior to the illegal download situation). The music industry is definitely evolving – at times it seems like forcefully, but it is changing none the less.

  68. Adam named in People’s Sexiest Man issue, courtesy The Advocate:

    I saw where Daughtry made it too. I thought Kris and Cook made it but don’t see them on the People’s website. ANyone know?

    That was just a slideshow promoting the SMA issue. It was not a slideshow of men confirmed to be on the list.

  69. That’s pretty awesome for David Cook. #13 in total sales for the year is not too shabby, especially for a freshman album.

    Congrats, DC! Keep it up!!!

  70. jms
    11/18/2009 at 10:28 am
    Adam’s FYE sales are still to his fan base, since no new audiences are hearing it on the radio.

    Not completely accurate. While true it isn’t getting much play overall, it is getting played and played frequently by a few stations making those audiences more likely to purchase. Of those, KISS-SiriusXM, has played it 71 times since they first spun it on Nov 9 (9 days ago = ~8 spins a day) and it’s currently ranked at number 17 on their play list. Are Sat radio listeners more likely to purchase music than regular radio? I don’t know the answer, but I suspect that may be the case as they’re willing to spring for Satellite radio. Also, how do we quantify that audience? I’m assuming that audience impression numbers can’t be gathered?

    Where can I find this list. I’m a Sirius XM listener.. and I haven’t heard this song yet. I flove Sat. Radio.

    ETA: I mean their play list.

  71. So, Kris’ CD sold out in all stores in Conway yesterday and people couldn’t get some to buy. Conway FTW.

  72. And can someone tell if they have anything lined up for Adam after AMAs, GMA, Letterman, and Ellen? Is that it? Heck, Oprah basically’”on air’” invited Adam back to sing when his album came out. Shouldn’t RCA get on that? And forget Details and all the hoopla with Out, because, how many people in the real world are even aware of either? Gee, RCA, get to work and get Adam an article in People or something (they are a weekly publication, I am sure Adam would be an easy sell). What about a concert somewhere when the album drops? If they don’t want the Jingle Balls fine. But get him something else. Cook at least had something at The Hard Rock. And maybe a morning of radio interviews, lol?

    Sorry about the rant, but Adam has a pretty amazing CD to sell. It is time for RCA to get on the ball.

    Well, based on what little I know about promotion (although from watching Elliott’s career very closely, and from being a journalist myself, I actually think I know more than a lot of people), I would be stunned and shocked if RCA were not working diligently trying to get Adam all the stuff that you mentioned.

    That’s what labels and management *do*. They do it for everybody. They have special teams of people who do nothing but draw up plans for pitching these people to all the big media (and then the small media, if the big won’t bite) and who then pitch pitch pitch pitch pitch all day long ….

    And yet …. if the media doesn’t want to feature the person … they won’t.

    Just like … if radio doesn’t want to play ’em … they won’t.

    But I think we’re just way off the mark if we imagine that RCA/19 aren’t trying very hard to get big important mainstream media *and* radio play. If they weren’t, they’d be the only record company and management that weren’t. He’s their product. They want him to sell. They know that selling requires marketing. Period.

  73. Where can I find this list. I’m a Sirius XM listener.. and I haven’t heard this song yet. I flove Sat. Radio.

    Sorry, what I was looking at wasn’t a public database. But it was last played at 7:35 so if you tune in now, it’s probably about time for it to play again. :)

  74. This is the sales news thread. Sexy men are not the topic.

    LOL.

    Take it to the news thread. I’ll be deleting posts.

  75. This is essentially a ‘classy inoffensive albums for people 40 and older’  market. Nothing wrong with that market, at all. But it’s not Hot 100 material. If Adam is going to sell to the market that makes huge CHR hits, it’s not happening on Amazon.

    The people who purchased Adam’s album off of Amazon are his core fan base, and some have said that these are older women, but I don’t think that matter right now. I think the only thing that we can predict is that the core fan base was going to pre-order the album from whatever source was available, and at the time, Amazon was the only source. And we can also surmise that it woudn’t take a whole lot for Adam to lead Amazon’s chart, since they just don’t sell a lot of records, so it wouldn’t take a lot for Adam to become the best seller. When Adam’s album wen for pre-order on the site, Kris’ pre-sale, which was ranked around 500 at the time, shot up to the mid 100’s in less than 2 hours, so again, that shows us that Adam’s accomplishment, while nice, didn’t mean a heck of a lot.

  76. FYE-song not doing great? That’s because it’s not a great one IMO. I can name about 10 from the album which I like more.
    I’m waiting for FYE-album first week after release sales numbers. Don’t care about singles (WWFM isn’t my favorite either).

  77. If he’s only considered as a visual artist he’ll be in trouble with radio. People need to view him as more than a visual artist if this is the case.

    He’ll be in trouble with radio because his visual performance brings him a lot of attention? Tell that to the Gaga, Britney or even Madonna fans. It’s all about the visuals with them–and Adam can sing! All I’m saying is that the visuals bring attention from the public with an unknown artist. It’s his “voice” which I hope keeps the attention, not to mention the excellent material on the album, already being praised by critics.

    Even with all those things going for him, could sales still fall short? Sure, just like they could for Kris, Allison, Danny or any of the others. Lightening has to strike just right for a new artist to make it in these times. A strong performance just adds to his appeal and potential, ymmv.

  78. That Bocelli album is selling great. So Amazon can give you an idea of demand for an album. Adam has to have a good opening week selling albums. Otherwise S8 will have a dismal start and that doesn’t make sense. The tour was very successful. I just think the fanbase is older than last year with the Davids.

    Gaga and Britney are huge sellers of singles. As was Madonna in her prime.

  79. FYE-song not doing great? That’s because it’s not a great one IMO. I can name about 10 from the album which I like more.
    I’m waiting for FYE-album first week after release sales numbers. Don’t care about singles (WWFM isn’t my favorite either).

    I’m sure that’s true for most of us.

    But the question then becomes — Does your favorite song fall into a “radio friendly” sweet spot?

    Because if it doesn’t, then the best song in the universe is not going to get played on radio. (…accordingly, the best songs in the universe hardly *ever* get played on radio these days, or the best songs on anybody’s album — for some reason, it’s all about fitting in with the particular style that’s hot, and having the hook…)

    Actually, I don’t know that anything I’ve heard on Adam’s album seems *more* radio friendly than FYE. (And same for Kris’s LLWD). Although I guess there are some that may be equally radio friendly.

  80. The point is that Adam’s numbers are pretty much identical to the numbers that Kris put up during the same time period, which more than indicates that their fan bases are the same size

    Are you forgetting Time for Miracles? I think lots of casual fans only bought one single. There isn’t incentive to buy 2 singles when the album release is only two weeks away.

  81. From an article in the headlines thread:

    Adam “has sold 997,000 tracks since his Idol rise, according to Nielsen SoundScan.”

    Not bad, in my book.

  82. The first week sale days of FYE are a follows:
    AO.com – 7 days plus 3 days of prerelease sales*
    Amazon US – on sale 11/3/09 – 5 days 13 hours
    iTunes US – 11/4/09 PM – 4 days 8 hours [first 36 hours with site issues]

    The sales of FYE on AO.com that occurred from 10/30 through 11/1 are prerelease sales and are not included in the Billboard chart; sales on AO.com from 11/2/09 should be in the Billboard numbers.

    I expect that FYE numbers for this week, 11/16/09 through 11/22/09 will be lower that last week’s sales but that FYE’s numbers will go up after the AMAs, GMA and Letterman appearances and the release of Adam’s music video.

    By all reports and the retail chart ranking, Adam’s album presale is quite strong — particularly for an Idol runner-up. This could just be that Adam a some core passionate fans or a sign that the album will have a strong sale after release — we will know in a few weeks.

    Adam is not an internation artist yet. Maybe in Canada his sales will be good, but in the rest of the world he’s yet unkown.

    FYE is being played on the radio in 6 countries, and Adam’s album preorder is surprising strong in the countries were it is available: in the top 100 on Amazon Japan for 14 days, #13 on preorder chart on Play UK, #8 Canada bestsellers, #23 pop iTunes Mexico. It is not available yet in most other countries.

    And can someone tell if they have anything lined up for Adam after AMAs, GMA, Letterman, and Ellen? Is that it? Heck, Oprah basically’”on air’” invited Adam back to sing when his album came out. Shouldn’t RCA get on that? And forget Details and all the hoopla with Out, because, how many people in the real world are even aware of either?

    Jamie King is working with Adam on his performances, appearances and tour — there is no doubt that there will be more appearances and a tour or they would not have hired Jamie King, director/choreographer. Kings associate director Stefanie Roos will direct Lambert’s upcoming performances, appearances and upcoming tour. The Emmy Award nominated King was the director of Britney Spears’s 2009 “Circus” tour, Madonna’s 2008 “Sticky and Sweet” Tour, The Spice Girls 2007/2008 reunion tour and is currently working on the Rihanna 2009- 2010 World Tour. Roos has done work on the Teen Choice Awards, TV Land Awards and Madonna’s “The Confessions Tour Live”.

  83. The Glee songs are really selling. Its amazing how people are buying kareokee cover songs because they come off of a popular show. Fads I tell ya! lol

    It shows me that people are hungry for stuff that isn’t on the radio and TV is exposing them to it.
    Chicagolaw, don’t worry about FYE on GMA. Adam can perform anything anywhere. He has the experience and the skills! :)

    This year’s Idol numbers are certainly an anomoly.

    ETA: Juts saw the top ten lsiting for albums. Wow, the number one album only sold 3 milllion. That’s great, for Taylor, but at the same time, seems not good at all for the music business.
    Kirsten, how do the last few years compare for Top Ten albums?
    Very excited to See David Cook at number 13!

  84. Tell that to the Gaga, Britney or even Madonna fans. It’s all about the visuals with them’“and Adam can sing! All I’m saying is that the visuals bring attention from the public with an unknown artist.

    Lady Gaga had the visuals from the get go and she did not ignore radio…she was doing things like Jingle Balls before she really blew up.

    Hi, Q3…FYE might be doing something internationally (and who knows if that’s temporary or not) but since it’s not getting 5000 spins by it’s third week, it’s a flop domestically like LLWD right?

  85. Carrie comes in at #3 on the Billboard Top 200 Albums on her 2nd week of release.

    SOUNDSCAN (WEEK ENDING 11/15/09)

    1) Bon Jovi ‘“ The Circle ‘“ 162,861
    2) Andrea Bocelli ‘“ My Christmas ‘“ 136,125 (After 2 weeks ‘“ 284,708)
    3) Carrie Underwood ‘“ Play On ‘“ 128,443 (After 2 weeks ‘“ 446,254)

    She should easily pass the 500,000 mark next week.

  86. He’ll be in trouble with radio because his visual performance brings him a lot of attention? Tell that to the Gaga, Britney or even Madonna fans. It’s all about the visuals with them’“and Adam can sing! All I’m saying is that the visuals bring attention from the public with an unknown artist. It’s his ‘voice’  which I hope keeps the attention, not to mention the excellent material on the album, already being praised by critics.

    I don’t believe that’s what the poster meant. The original post made it sound like Adam needs to be seen in order to be effective, but if that is the case, then yes he is in trouble. Gaga and Britney both have catchy and radio friendly songs, without those, nobody would care about their theatrical performances, and nobody would show-up to their shows, or interview them, because without the ability of radio to reach the masses, nobody would know who they are.

    Taylor Hicks was knowon for his live performances, and like I said, those performances brought in a lot of money his first year off idol, but how are people supposed to know about the performances, or any of his new material, or how is he supposed to build up a fan base without radio. And how will promoters know that he will be able to fill seats, if they don’t know that there is a demand for his music, by the fact that singles are albums are being purchased, since of course nobody will be buying this music, since without radio sales will plummet.

    Adam will get attention for his live performances, but if that’s his main draw, and not the music, then he’s in trouble.

  87. Adam’s album is wonderful, and FYE is ‘radio ready’ but Adam’s music has not been promoted and pushed by 19Entertainment/RCA the way Kris’s album was and he should have had the single out in Sept or Oct and the video ready right with it. Adam is doing okay only because of word of mouth of his fans from info from his Twitter. Adam needs better managers because he is the best male singer in all 8 seasons of American IdoL. And I will never ever believe the voting was legit and accurate.

  88. Trina and wordnerdarchie, thanks for the figures. I was too lazy to look them up. LOL.

  89. Aside from the historical sales data that Amazon is only a small portion of the US market for CDs, take a look at the artists on the bestsellers list above Adam’s disc:

    Susan Boyle
    Norah Jones
    Andrea Bocelli (Christmas album)
    John Mayer
    Michael Buble
    Paul McCartney (concert)

    This is essentially a ‘classy inoffensive albums for people 40 and older’  market. Nothing wrong with that market, at all. But it’s not Hot 100 material. If Adam is going to sell to the market that makes huge CHR hits, it’s not happening on Amazon.

    I do not believe that Amazon even represents the over 40 market very well —

    In the US over 35% of music is purchased by people over 45 — it is a huge market and the ONLY part of the US market where sales are growing. People under 45 are far more likely to steal or share music, people over 45 are more likely to pay for music. That is why the sales charts are getting filled with reissues — Beatles to MJ to Barbra.

    I have no idea what will happen with Adam’s album sales, but it is clear that SuBo will do really well.

  90. Sorry if this is OT, but how many songs did Kris and next Adam get to sing at the GMA concert?

    Kris sang 2 (LLWD and Can’t Stay Away (he sang CSA twice live for recording purposes)). Don’t know how many Adam will sing, and according to people I know who got emails from GMA, the exact details of his performance next week are still up in the air (or at least not yet known to the general public).

    As for FYE on radio – I think RCA has not pushed it to radio as strongly as say, Jive pushed LLWD to radio, and that RCA clearly seems to have a different strategy with Adam, in terms of how they want to do his roll out, etc.

    That said, I do believe that FYE is struggling on radio because, as others have pointed out, radio is super conservative, and Adam is such a “different” sound out there (from the stand point of being a man singing these kinds of songs, etc.) I had no idea a few months ago just how conservative radio was in this respect, but it is glaringly obvious now. New artists and styles do break out on radio from time to time (like say, Lady Gaga, or Fireflies, etc.) but for the most part, right now the hit makers are people like Miley and Taylor and Britney, and a clone like them may be the only obvious in to radio (and even that isn’t guaranteed).

    However, I can’t believe RCA wouldn’t have some notion of radio’s conservatism, so, again, I think the push of FYE to the radio may be deliberately low key, at least now, for whatever reason. Also, I do think WWFM is much safer, and super catchy, and I can personally see it catching on quite nicely. Just some thoughts.

  91. Taylor’s album has been available for about 2 years now. It’s sold more than 3 million…more like 5-6 million. Her people are seriously milking the heck out of that one album, but hey people are buying it so why not.

  92. Actually, I don’t know that anything I’ve heard on Adam’s album seems *more* radio friendly than FYE.

    I think that WWFM is the most “radio friendly” of everything I’ve heard on FYE (the album). I did think that FYE (the single) would perform better out of the gate, and I’m surprised that it hasn’t. I’m guessing that RCA will start pushing WWFM as the single soon.

  93. ianaleah

    11/18/2009 at 10:54 am
    Adam’s album is wonderful, and FYE is ‘radio ready’ but Adam’s music has not been promoted and pushed by 19Entertainment/RCA the way Kris’s album was and he should have had the single out in Sept or Oct and the video ready right with it. Adam is doing okay only because of word of mouth of his fans from info from his Twitter. Adam needs better managers because he is the best male singer in all 8 seasons of American IdoL. And I will never ever believe the voting was legit and accurate.

    Cut 19R/RCA a break — FYE wasn’t finished until 10/23/09. And wasn’t picked as the single until the end of October. Frankly, I would rather have the great album that Adam put out and have the sales ramp slowing, then have had them rush out single just to get it out in September.

    FYE [album] will do fine and the promotion will occur. It all appears to be stacked behind the worldwide premiere on the AMAs anyway. So, I bet money that there is a wave of promo in the next 2 weeks.

  94. ianaleah

    11/18/2009 at 10:54 am
    Adam’s album is wonderful, and FYE is ‘radio ready’ but Adam’s music has not been promoted and pushed by 19Entertainment/RCA the way Kris’s album was and he should have had the single out in Sept or Oct and the video ready right with it. Adam is doing okay only because of word of mouth of his fans from info from his Twitter. Adam needs better managers because he is the best male singer in all 8 seasons of American IdoL. And I will never ever believe the voting was legit and accurate.

    Cut 19R/RCA a break — FYE wasn’t finished until 10/23/09. And wasn’t picked as the single until the end of October. Frankly, I would rather have the great album that Adam put out and have the sales ramp slowing, then have had them rush out single just to get it out in September.

    FYE [album] will do fine and the promotion will occur. It all appears to be stacked behind the worldwide premiere on the AMAs anyway. So, I bet money that there is a wave of promo in the next 2 weeks.

  95. Oops, I just noticed a typo in my previous post. The second week after the finale Permanent sold 32,000. Sorry number nerds. *facepalm*

  96. Adam’s album is wonderful, and FYE is ‘radio ready’ but Adam’s music has not been promoted and pushed by 19Entertainment/RCA the way Kris’s album was

    If this were actually true, I’m pretty sure it would be unprecedented for somebody they’re sinking money into. … Which is why I’m quite sure that it isn’t true, lol!

  97. leome
    11/18/2009 at 10:13 am
    I thought we established on the Mediabase thread this week that Adam’s airplay was the same or greater than Kris’s was at the same point in the single’s history.

    I don’t know how that was established, but it’s neither the same or greater.

    It was established by Mediabase, and Kirsten:

    “Here are your Monday Morning Mediabase Updates for airplay as of midnight of 11/15/09 after the jump.
    Mediabase top 50 in major formats only. Some charts may have less than 50 ranked songs if the number of spins do not reach a certain cut-off:”

    Adam Lambert:
    ‘For Your Entertainment’ : ^46 HAC (55)

    Kris Allen: From Oct. 12th
    ‘Live Like We Are Dying’ : ^45 HAC (53)

  98. Adam ‘has sold 997,000 tracks since his Idol rise, according to Nielsen SoundScan.’ 

    Not bad, in my book.

    It’s not bad for Adam or Kris. As Brian pointed out, Kris’ total, not including LLWD, is 1.1 million. Some may ask, why aren’t more of these people buying LLWD or FYE, but I think that just shows the reach of AI, and how important radio and tv appearances are. The people who purchased Kris and Adam’s previous releases saw the songs performed on tevlevision, and saw these two every week, but LLWD and FYE have yet to experience that same type of national exposure, especially not on a continued basis.

  99. “But the question then becomes ‘” Does your favorite song fall into a ‘radio friendly’  sweet spot?”

    I don’t think it is a matter of friendliness but favoritism. If Adam’s album goes high in the charts because of pre-sale and live performances, radios add the most favorite songs, even if they are not radio friendly. Favorite of masses is favorite of radios.

  100. FYE got another radio add today:

    CHUM-FM Pub 1 Canada-Hot AC Toronto RCA/RCAMG CTVglobemedia 1 11/18/2009 6:46:00 AM

    Was this counted yesterday?

  101. Well it’s Canadian HAC so you have to count it on its own because those spins will go towards a separate chart.

  102. BeckyMD
    11/18/2009 at 11:08 am
    CHUM-FM Pub 1 Canada-Hot AC Toronto RCA/RCAMG CTVglobemedia 1 11/18/2009 6:46:00 AM

    It’s strange to me that Canada top 3 HAC and Top 2 Top 40 stations has added FYE. It seems Adam (or FYE) is better received there.

  103. It was established by Mediabase, and Kirsten:

    Those are HAC numbers. Both songs also get CHR airplay, which gives more spins and audience than HAC, and LLWD was doing better there.
    LLWD also had christian airplay, FYE doesn’t have any other format playing it, so all in all, LLWD had more airplay (and way more AI).

  104. “That said, I do believe that FYE is struggling on radio because, as others have pointed out, radio is super conservative, and Adam is such a ‘different’  sound out there”

    what kinda radio are you listening too? im not hearing conservative on my radio…

    ETA: i can see conservative maybe in not just jumping on weird/different things to some extent few new unproven artists.

    but not particularly in the content of songs..

  105. FYE is climbing the single charts in US Itunes, what has happened?

    Kris album going on sale is helping it. This usually happens with AI releases, that’s why if you check out what people buy when they purchase a single or album by an AI alum, you’ll see that people often buy something that was released by more than one former AI contestant.

    It was established by Mediabase, and Kirsten:

    Here are your Monday Morning Mediabase Updates for airplay as of midnight of 11/15/09 after the jump.
    Mediabase top 50 in major formats only. Some charts may have less than 50 ranked songs if the number of spins do not reach a certain cut-off:

    Adam Lambert:
    ‘For Your Entertainment’ : ^46 HAC (55)

    Kris Allen: From Oct. 12th

    ‘Live Like We Are Dying’ : ^45 HAC (53)

    Not to nitpick, but the ranking doesn’t tell us how many spins each had, at this time, that will tell us more than the ranking, and I notice that you left out the pop placement. I’m not saying that Adam doesn’t have more spins, even though I don’t remember a week earlier on where Kris didn’t pick up any manuel adds, or where his spin increase is as bad as Adam’s have been over the past two days, but what I am saying is that the ranking doesn’t tell us anything about the number of spins, which would make a better comparison. BTW, do you really see that big of a difference in these numbers? Especially one that would warrant gloating, or saying that one did better than the other.

  106. And, I have the EW copy that stated that Adam’s album presales were higher than any Idol person ever.

    I think that was only for Amazon.

    ‘ ¦which actually could be *bad* news, since isn’t it true that Amazon’s main buying demographic is older people? Having a lot of older people buy your album won’t entice radio to play you, unfortunately!

    I would never call having the all-time #1 American Idol pre-sale Amazon numbers ‘“ ‘bad news.’ 

    And I think Adam’s album is currently the # 2 pre-sale album listed on the iTunes charts.

    Time will only tell what kind of sales any of these kids will have, but it looks to me like Adam and Kris are doing what they do. It’s a journey and a process, and they are moving ahead.

  107. adios add the most favorite songs, even if they are not radio friendly.

    For the most part, No way, jose, lol, in my opinion! ….

    But, yeah, I completely agree that if somebody’s music actually does somehow become a huge major popular phenomenon without radio play then, yeah, radio probably will most likely play it…..

    However, the avenues for becoming a major national phenomenon without radio play are few. Miley got one, through her tv show and movies, and anybody Disney can pretty much count on it. I don’t know how many other examples there are, though. And I doubt that Adam can get anything other than one-off performances such as the AMAs that, while they give him a bit of a boost, will not make him an undeniable popular force of nature, either! (wish that they would — but just can’t see it happening!)

  108. ‘ ¦which actually could be *bad* news, since isn’t it true that Amazon’s main buying demographic is older people? Having a lot of older people buy your album won’t entice radio to play you, unfortunately!

    I would never call having the all-time #1 American Idol pre-sale Amazon numbers ‘“ ‘bad news.’ 

    And I think Adam’s album is currently the #1 pre-sale album listed on the iTunes charts.

    Time will only tell what kind of sales any of these kids will have, but it looks to me like Adam and Kris are doing what they do. It’s a journey and a process, and they are moving ahead.

    Agreed. I was overstating. Not bad news. More like “Good news, but ….”

    Any sales are definitely nice, but being bought by a bunch of middle-aged people at a site that mostly sells Susan Boyle and Michael Buble is not going to get the attention of radio, however!

  109. From someone who, pretty much, never listens to the radio unless I’m in my daughter’s car can someone explain to me How they know that radio is the be all and end all for Artists. I have NEVER heard David Cook or David A. on the radio here in Phoenix and yet they seem to be doing OK. People tell me Jordin is a radio fiend but I look at her album sales and wonder how this translates.

    I think of the “Acts” that tour in this area and the biggest sell outs are very rarely the guys with radio hits….why, because they do not have enough depth in their repetoire to do a tour. And I think of some acts that do wonderful touring and I don’t think they have ever had a top 40 hit….excuse me if I am wrong but I don’t think Josh Grobin is the King of the airways…nor was he when he “burst” onto the scene.

    I guess it is all about what the listener holds dear…if they think radio is the be all and end all then they only look at artists that are radio fiends. To me that then becomes limited to artists that really attract the tween, teen, and college set. That seems to be the audience radio attracts…’cause the music is free and those listeners just move on when the next “song” hits the top 10.

  110. And I think Adam’s album is currently the #1 pre-sale album listed on the iTunes charts.

    That would be Rihanna, who’s pre-sale has never been behind Adam’s on the chart, and which was actually ranked higher and longer in the top ten. Not that that means a lot.

  111. what kinda radio are you listening too? im not hearing conservative on my radio’ ¦

    By “conservative” I mean — Not inclined to play anything too different from what they’re already playing, and playing the same songs and artists over and over and over again, ostensibly for the business reason that, If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. …. I use that word because I’ve seen it over and over again in industry analyses — It’s “conservative” in the business sense. Not in the “oh, horrors!” sense.

    And I don’t see how anybody can deny that radio today is *extremely* conservative in this sense.

  112. Adam will get attention for his live performances, but if that’s his main draw, and not the music, then he’s in trouble.

    There’s a difference between “main draw” and “only draw” to a performer. All I’m saying and said so in the original post, is that his visual presentation is going to garner him attention, but I never said that was his “only” appeal, IMHO. If you are not a fan, of course, you won’t feel that he has anything else going for him, lol. Comparing him to Taylor Hicks has me chuckling, by the way, though I do like Taylor. It’s not like he was an attention-getter with an outrageous voice. He was a pleasant singer and talented, likable musician. I loved Taylor on the show, but also know why he didn’t take off when he failed to find a radio-niche. That is unlikely to be Adam’s problem, but I admit I’m guessing.

    So, preaching to the Adam-choir here, NO Adam fans believe that just his performance style or stage presence are the only draw to his appeal. Again, the critically acclaimed album and HIS VOICE ought to be what attracts and keeps the new fans who’ll be seeing him for the first time at the AMA’s. I’m only imagining the reaction of those in the home audience who’ve never seen him, as I can remember very well what it was like when I saw him on Idol the first time and thought, “What?!?”

    If you are a non-Adam fan, then of course you’ll feel that showy stage presence may be his only appeal (and non-Adam fans often hate that too, lol)–fair enough if you don’t like his style. Then you’re never going to agree that his AMA performance can only add to his fans. YMMV, as they say.

  113. Those are HAC numbers. Both songs also get CHR airplay, which gives more spins and audience than HAC, and LLWD was doing better there.

    LLWD was not doing better at the same point. Kirsten did not give CHR numbers for LLWD or FYE because neither was high enough on the CHR chart yet.

    If you can find numbers that show LLWD was doing better on the CHR charts(on 10/12) than FYE(on 11/16), please post the information!

  114. Any sales are definitely nice, but being bought by a bunch of middle-aged people at a site that mostly sells Susan Boyle and Michael Buble is not going to get the attention of radio, however!

    The bad news isn’t that Adam’s album was pre-ordered by a bunch of middle aged people who buy Susan Boyle’s album, if that had been the case, then it would be good news. The bad news is that the album was pre-ordered by people who became fans of Adam while he was on AI, and not new people, and the not necessarily bad news, but fact that isn’t as good or important as some people made it seem to be, is that Adam’s album topped the chart on a site that doesn’t do squat in terms of album sales.

    Tess

    , people aren’t just stating their opinions, the fact is that for any artist to get noticed, and to build up a base, they need radio play. Trust me, tptb are very worried about the lack of love that the David’s received from radio. The numbers for their debut albums were helped by appearing on AI, but the second albums won’t benefit from this, at least not a lot, they need radio play in order to gain more exposure. As Kirsten already said, we can look at the sales for LLWD, TFM and FIBOU and see how radio play or lack of radio play has effected each of them in terms of sales.

  115. Especially one that would warrant gloating, or saying that one did better than the other.

    Was someone gloating? I don’t think any of us have anything to actually gloat about. I, for one, am just optimistic and happy to see positives for ADam-no matter how small they may be.

  116. Taylor’s album has been available for about 2 years now. It’s sold more than 3 million’ ¦more like 5-6 million. Her people are seriously milking the heck out of that one album, but hey people are buying it so why not.

    Actually, Taylor Swift’s album has been around only 1 year. It was released on the same day that Archie’s album dropped. It debuted at number 1 on the Billboard Top 200 and Archie’s album came in second. Had Taylor picked a different week to release her album, Archie’s would have been number 1. Arrrrgh!

  117. And I think Adam’s album is currently the #1 pre-sale album listed on the iTunes charts.

    That would be Rihanna, who’s pre-sale has never been behind Adam’s on the chart, and which was actually ranked higher and longer in the top ten. Not that that means a lot.

    babybelle32
    Thank you for the correction… I’ve updated my original post to reflect Adam is currently listed with the #2 pre-sale on iTunes.

    I honestly don’t know what it means…. but to me… it’s only positive. :-)

  118. FYE is climbing the single charts in US Itunes, what has happened?

    Where is it now? Where was it?

  119. There’s a difference between ‘main draw’  and ‘only draw’  to a performer. All I’m saying and said so in the original post, is that his visual presentation is going to garner him attention, but I never said that was his ‘only’  appeal, IMHO. If you are not a fan, of course, you won’t feel that he has anything else going for him, lol. Comparing him to Taylor Hicks has me chuckling, by the way, though I do like Taylor. It’s not like he was an attention-getter with an outrageous voice. He was a pleasant singer and talented, likable musician. I loved Taylor on the show, but also know why he didn’t take off when he failed to find a radio-niche. That is unlikely to be Adam’s problem, but I admit I’m guessing.

    First, I’m not comparing Taylor to Adam, I only bought up Taylor, because some Adam fans seem to be saying that Adam doesn’t need radio, and that he can get by just on live performances and touring. My point is, how can someone who is just known for being on a relaity show, and who hasn’t built up an audience beyond those who watched him on a reality show, going to establish a career that just centers around live performances? Without radio, Adam won’t have the arena to let people know about his music. Nobody is going to give Adam a lot of attention without the radio play and sales to back him up.

    Secondly, the original post made it sound like the main focus is Adam’s visual performances, and that’s why the single hasn’t been selling, and why radio hasn’t been playing his music. If this is the case, and I’m not saying that it is, this is just how an Adam fan made it sound, then that’s a problem. Gaga has always been outrageous, but if nobody heard her music on the radio and cared about it, she woudln’t be as big as she is now.

  120. I have NEVER heard David Cook or David A. on the radio here in Phoenix and yet they seem to be doing OK. People tell me Jordin is a radio fiend but I look at her album sales and wonder how this translates.

    1. Its more about radio play around the country, not just Pheonix. LOL. There will always be a market or two that does not jump on a song to the same degree as other markets.

    2. Pretty much anyone who has sustained album sales – that is, keep selling albums past the first few weeks of release – has gotten stable radio play somewhere. Is that a guarantee? No. But if you want to stay on the BB200 for any length of time, it is necessity.

    These guys will be likely be fine through Christmas. But after that, somebody’s gotta spin their songs if they are going to have long term success.

  121. And I think Adam’s album is currently the #1 pre-sale album listed on the iTunes charts.

    Rihanna’s new album is ahead of FYE. Kris’ album is selling really good in itunes.

    56 Adam Lambert ‘For Your Entertainment’  26,065 (42%; lw 18,397) Total: 44,462 (82)

    I believe the album pre-order pushed up the single sales temporarily. Next week’s number won’t be as good if this week’s is considered good. Anyway, although I’m not happy with the sales number of the single, I don’t think RCA is dropping it. After the OHP, there is no other moves indicating they are pushing another single.

  122. , people aren’t just stating their opinions, the fact is that for any artist to get noticed, and to build up a base, they need radio play.

    You still need to prove this to me. I know of hundreds of Artists who have very successful albums, tour well, and don’t get played on the radio. Unless someone can pull numbers out of a hat and prove that there is a DIRECT correlation between radio spins and Artist revenue for ALL artists then I will bite on that apple. Otherwise, I feel that there are a lot of ways to get people to buy what you are selling…and to say that only one marketing device works is burying your head in the sand.

    And please direct quote a PTB that thinks the Davids are totally floundering because of their lack of radio play. Both of these guys have grossed a few million in revenue this year so I don’t think they or the record labels are suffering right now.

  123. Not to nitpick, but the ranking doesn’t tell us how many spins each had, at this time, that will tell us more than the ranking, and I notice that you left out the pop placement.

    As I said, Kirsten did not post those numbers! Maybe the singles were both too low in pop placement to rank? Ask Kirsten, because this information is all we got!

    BTW, do you really see that big of a difference in these numbers? Especially one that would warrant gloating, or saying that one did better than the other.

    BTW, I did not “gloat” or “say one was better than the other”. I said that both singles were close to the same ranking (as reported by Kirsten) at the same time period post release date. What part of my post says one is better than the other? The whole point was that there wasn’t a big difference in the numbers.

  124. When is Adam’s FYE video due out? I know Kris got quite a bump after that was played on VH1 last weekend. I’ve also noticed in this week’s appearances that scenes from the video have been used to introduce Kris both at the beginning of the show and right as he’s coming out. It’s a good visual to connect the song with the person.

  125. Both Davids DID get radio play though. Not at pop past the first songs, but for their follow ups Archie was heavily spun on Radio Disney and Cook was heavily spun on HAC. Both enabled them to keep selling albums to differing degrees as well as drove concert sales, and kept their names alive in certain markets.

    Unless one of the S8 crew lands a song on an Ipod or Target commercial – LOL – I really don’t see how else they are going to reach a wide enough audience on a regular basis to expand their fanbases. They are not on indies – both do have a level of revue they need to generate to be successful in the eyes of their labels.

  126. Muse is doing very well and I don’t hear them on the radio at all. I luv Muse!!!!!!!!!!!!

  127. alaadam
    11/18/2009 at 11:37 am
    FYE is climbing the single charts in US Itunes, what has happened?

    Where is it now? Where was it?

    LLWD #44

    FYE #57

    last time I looked, anyway. Don’t remember where they were before. Go, boys go! :)

  128. “Actually, Taylor Swift’s album has been around only 1 year. It was released on the same day that Archie’s album dropped. It debuted at number 1 on the Billboard Top 200 and Archie’s album came in second. Had Taylor picked a different week to release her album, Archie’s would have been number 1. Arrrrgh!”

    thorn in my side… and her album is STILL selling gads of cds… *facepalm*

  129. If Adam wants to be Lord Gaga radio has to play him. If he wants to be Josh Groban or Michael Bubble, that’s a whole other thing. He should have probably put out a different album though.

    No one knows how much these albums cost to produce/promo. It’s not so clear that labels are grossing millions on them. Adam probably is already deep in the hole based on the top names working on the album, video, tour director, etc. (Jive is a cheap label. Kris probably doesn’t have to sell alot to recoup the $ invested).

  130. Tess, look at Kirsten’s post, I believe it should be on the first page of this thread about sales of the three singles released by Kris, Adam and Allison and how their sales related to their airplay. Airplay is important, that’s why labels will do anything, even sometimes illegal things like paying djs, to get their artists spins. Compare the top songs in terms of sales to those that receive the most airplay, and the lists will pretty much be the same.

    You can think that radio is not important, but it’s actually one of the reasons that previous AI alums were dropped, Taylor Hicks album was certified platinum, but it actually sold closer to what David A.’s has, and as I said, he was ranked in the top 15 in terms of tour revenue, but radio ignored him, and Arista new that they could not market him if radio refused to play his music.

    ETA: Jive may be cheap, but they have spent a lot of money on Kris. Neither Kris or Adam have been deprived of money by their labels. Both will need to sale a lot in order to just break even.
    I’m not saying that anyone is given up on the David’s, but you better believe that they are thinking of ways to make both of these guys second albums more radio friendly.

  131. babybelle32 Then in fact, you and I agree on one thing–Adam does need radio attention. So do all these other S8 folks. If you were to read my original post, I never suggested that being a visual performer means that his management should avoid radio promotion. In fact, I believe the AMA’s are meant to promote just such radio play. One does not negate the other, imho. Lady Gaga started as a visually challenging performer–and radio took notice. Madonna was outrageous in her videos and performances; radio followed. As an Adam-fan, I hope history repeats itself. I also wish the best for the rest of the top 4, truly.

    But hey, if radio still refuses to play Adam (or Kris, or Allison or Danny) then success will be extremely limited. Totally agree there.

  132. Muse is doing very well and I don’t hear them on the radio at all. I luv Muse!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Muse has the number 1 song on Alternative radio at the moment.

  133. Muse is doing very well and I don’t hear them on the radio at all. I luv Muse!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do you listen to Alternative Rock Radio at all? They have smash hits on that format.

  134. They have not updated David Cook’s record sales to reflect that he has in fact sold 1, 300,000 copies according to reuters.

    It’s just one of those weird rules of this Billboard chart that it won’t include sales accrued after an album fell out of BB200. The Reuters number has been rounded up, sales of David Cook’s album is currently at around 1.251 million.

  135. David Archuleta, Christmas From the Heart

    10,000, +15 percent, 49,000/1,000 digital total, +56 percent, 7,000 digital total)

    pretty doggone impressive the 5th week out……. that’s our david :)

  136. And to continue my over-worked thought process…isn’t it all about revenue in the end. Just because it was brought up earlier…I am surprised that a $17 album by Adam is far outselling his $10 album on I-tunes. That seems to be the direct opposite of what many other artists are doing. And Rhianna does not have a deluxe album and her album is listed at $10. So if the difference in sales for these 2 is negligible in terms of units, I think I would rather sell a few less albums but get $7 more for every album I sell.

    Also, when Adam’s FYE single didn’t hold water it was reduced in price from 1.29 to .99. Maybe that is why it is climbing a bit now.

    Money is a motivation for everyone, whether the seller or the consumer. If you sell 100 singles at .99 you make a 100 bucks. If you sell 77 singles at 1.29 you make the same 100 bucks. So in this instance the numbers look better when the price is reduced and that makes the artist look better. But basically the total revenue goes unchanged.

    And, I think it is great that Kris’ album(s) are pretty much running neck and neck between his deluxe and his standard. And I look at his ranking accordingly. So if someone is outselling him with a single album I just giggle and think that Kris’ is making more revenue in the end.

    Go Justin keep selling those $7 albums. He has to sell 2 for every 1 deluxe that Kris does to make the same revenue. His hard numbers may look good but his $s are taking a hit.

  137. Tess
    I know of hundreds of Artists who have very successful albums, tour well, and don’t get played on the radio.

    Chances are that they do get played on the radio, just not the stations some listen to (e.g. the aforementioned Muse). Or they used to get played on the radio, are long since established and have been comfortably coasting on that (e.g. Madonna).

  138. David Archuleta, Christmas From the Heart

    If David sells 100,000 Christmas albums…and his numbers look like this is possible…that is mightly awesome for a Christmas album. And it will come out for a number of years and just keep selling along.

    I think that is great!!

  139. Trust me, tptb are very worried about the lack of love that the David’s received from radio. The numbers for their debut albums were helped by appearing on AI,

    LOL Cook was twice on AI and Archie was once… but yeah, I’m sure that’s enough to sell the numbers of albums they sold.

  140. Dang! I wonder which radio station in my area is alternative. In SOUTH Alabama, we have two-country and soft rock/pop. i would kill to hear them on the radio!!! Saw them in concert with U2! Awesome!!!

  141. have NEVER heard David Cook or David A. on the radio here in Phoenix and yet they seem to be doing OK.

    Not sure what Phoenix stations that you have listened to this past year, Tess. But I just checked Mediabase’s history, and granted, while Phoenix was certainly not a top 10 market for Crush Spins, um, those went to Salt Lake City, Johnson City, Boston, Seattle, Providence ‘“ Archie did get spins there. But yes, Crush was a radio monster in late 2008.

    As for David Cook, well, year to date (2009) for KMXP/96.9 one of Phoenix’s largest HAC stations: David Cook’s Come Back to Me is ranked #19, Light On is #28, and ToML is #215 — of all songs spun to date. So I’d say that Phoenix radio has played them some David Cook. By the way, Crush was #190 for 2009 on Mix.

  142. tinawina
    11/18/2009 at 11:57 am
    Muse is doing very well and I don’t hear them on the radio at all. I luv Muse!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Muse has the number 1 song on Alternative radio at the moment.

    I hear them all the time, several times a day. I lurve them, too, alaadam. I’d never thought they’d catch on in the USA.

    O, the power of “Twilight”.

  143. Chances are that they do get played on the radio, just not the stations some listen to (e.g. the aforementioned Muse). Or they used to get played on the radio, are long since established and have been comfortably coasting on that (e.g. Madonna).

    EXACTLY. And if they are in the latter category, they sell a bunch of albums for a few weeks then start falling off the chart. But they make money on tour off their existing fanbase… the one they earned by becoming radio stars way back when.

  144. I’m not saying that anyone is given up on the David’s, but you better believe that they are thinking of ways to make both of these guys second albums more radio friendly.

    this isn’t something germane to just them – any label worth their salt does this for any of their artists… both have had songs that were radio friendly, so in regards to adam and kris they’ve got that under their belts… yes, radio seems to be very much a ”what have you done for me lately” kinda deal, but these two i’m not worried about… there’s always room for growth, but right about now, the top 4 finishers from season 8 would be blessed to be in the position the two davids are currently in… just sayin…

  145. If David sells 100,000 Christmas albums’ ¦and his numbers look like this is possible’ ¦that is mightly awesome for a Christmas album. And it will come out for a number of years and just keep selling along.

    i’d like to think these numbers indicate he’s selling consistently week to week outside of the base, with minimal promo [this is jive you know] up to this point, and more in the pipeline… i’m pleased to see the consistency, and look ahead to some increases as the holiday season gets closer…

  146. what kinda radio are you listening too? im not hearing conservative on my radio’ ¦

    By ‘conservative’  I mean ‘” Not inclined to play anything too different from what they’re already playing, and playing the same songs and artists over and over and over again, ostensibly for the business reason that, If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. ‘ ¦. I use that word because I’ve seen it over and over again in industry analyses ‘” It’s ‘conservative’  in the business sense. Not in the ‘oh, horrors!’  sense.

    And I don’t see how anybody can deny that radio today is *extremely* conservative in this sense.

    Thanks, lucy – this was my point about “conservative radio”. And it is extremely true. Give me a good example of radio taking a huge leap of faith for a different or unproven artist (outside of rare examples, and usually they get some kind of buzz from somewhere first), and maybe I’ll believe otherwise.

  147. But hey, if radio still refuses to play Adam (or Kris, or Allison or Danny) then success will be extremely limited. Totally agree there.

    So far US radio seems extremely willing to play Kris’s music. Big radio stations in Canada seem to like Adam, US not so much. Allison is slowly moving her way up and just started her radio tour. I don’t think Danny’s single has been sent for adds yet.

  148. alaadam
    11/18/2009 at 12:10 pm
    Dang! I wonder which radio station in my area is alternative. In SOUTH Alabama, we have two-country and soft rock/pop. i would kill to hear them on the radio!!! Saw them in concert with U2! Awesome!!!

    I am soo jellius.

    Still, Muse’s current popularity gives me hope for Adam.

    WLJS 91.9 FM Jacksonville State University
    WRAX 107.7 FM 107.7 The X Birmingham Rock Alternative

    are the only alt. stations I know of in Alabama. Not much help , but I believe WLJS is web accessible.

  149. Without radio airplay for his singles, Adam will go the way of Taylor Hicks and Blake Lewis-no doubt in my mind about that. Same goes for Kris, Danny and Allison. Yes, radio isn’t the only means for getting your music exposed to new audiences, but it’s a big factor that can’t be discounted (especially for new artists). The sales of Adam’s two singles so far should illustrate that “buzz” and magazine covers aren’t enough for him.

    That said, I still believe that Adam will have a successful radio single at some point-if not with FYE then another song from the album.

  150. 103 80 ALLEN*KRIS LIVE LIKE WE’RE DYING 21402 45 14754 119553 (TODAY)

    82 56 LAMBERT*ADAM FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT 26065 42 18397 44462 (TODAY)

    Aren’t the first two numbers chart rankings? What’s going on here?

  151. First…I have never heard the David’s here….but again my radio time is limited.

    Second…Since only the songwriters make money when a song is spun on the radio (and the inequity of this is now being debated and new bills are being presented to Congress to include Artists and labels) I think that a lot of secondary means of getting music heard is now being considered.

    Third…Artists and labels do make money on “legitimate” internet spins and as the internet becomes more and more user friendly this will become as much a viable marketing tool as some think radio is.

    Fourth…No one has yet given me evidentiary proof that an Artist “needs” radio to succeed. So far I’ve heard tons of rhetoric but no substantial figures to prove that. I’m not being bull headed, I just want someone to prove that radio play is the “only” way an Artist will eventually make money. Prove it to me…and I’ll shut up forever.

  152. Kris:
    LW Ranking: 103
    TW: 80
    LW Sales: 14,754
    TW: 21,402
    % Change: 45% Increase
    Total Sales to Date: 119,553

    Adam
    LW Ranking: 82
    TW: 56
    LW Sales: 18,397
    TW: 26,065
    % Change: 42% increase
    Total Sales to Date: 44,462

    Hot 100 Numbers will be interesting. I think Adam will have enough sales to debut this week. And Kris will move up because his AI has increased by a million impressions, and his sales have increased.

  153. “No one has yet given me evidentiary proof that an Artist ‘needs’  radio to succeed”

    Check out the albums that sold the most in the BB year. Adam wants to be a Pop star. There isn’t a single Pop star selling albums who isn’t already a huge star on radio. I guess the proof will be if radio ends up shunning all of Adam’s singles. It won’t be a pretty sight though.

  154. Aren’t the first two numbers chart rankings? What’s going on here?

    The first number is the chart ranking two weeks ago. The second number is the chart ranking last week. This current week will report sales next week.

    What you’ve grabbed are the raw numbers from SoundScan in teletype format. I just format them a little.

  155. That said, I still believe that Adam will have a successful radio single at some point-if not with FYE then another song from the album.

    I think if FYE is still not going anywhere by January RCA will put something else out. There is too much riding on him (read: ton of money and hype) for them not to make another run at breaking him on US radio.

    So far US radio seems extremely willing to play Kris’s music.

    Well I don’t know about extremely LOL, but he’s certainly chugging along. I think the strategy of aiming for a combination of Pop/HAC/CAC is a great move for him. Down the line, I wonder if they will try to break him on AAA too if it makes financial sense at the time.

    He is so a Matt Kearney with the potential to appeal to twenty somethings to me. Work it, Kris! LOL

    If David sells 100,000 Christmas albums’ ¦and his numbers look like this is possible’ ¦that is mightly awesome for a Christmas album.

    Archie is the man right now. LOL

  156. Hot 100 Numbers will be interesting. I think Adam will have enough sales to debut this week.

    Probably.

    And Kris will move up because his AI has increased by a million impressions, and his sales have increased.

    Yep. His airplay this week (11.5) is good for close to 16K in extra sales.

  157. Last year Archie and Gaga were doing Jingle Balls together. Some of the videos of the two of them were hilarious. Gaga in her underwear and Archie looking all confused. They made a great couple. :)

  158. Tess: I don’t have time to pull numbers, but we did this last year on DCO (I think more than once).

    Go to the Billboard 200 and pull all the albums that have been on the charts for more than, say 8 weeks. Then compare them to the historical radio charts. It will be as clear as day.

    Also, it is possible to make money without radio, but it is very very rare, and almost never sustainable in the long run. All anyone is saying is that radio play is these guys best shot at building a long term major label career, even if the format they get the play on is not pop.

    If you are on an small indie with low overhead it is a different story. You can make a profit appealing to a very small niche there.

  159. WRAX has been defunct for months.

    At any rate, the chances that alternative radio stations will be willing to play Adam’s electronic pop music just because Muse is played on there are extremely rare. Rock and alternative stations are not fond of Idols, particularly those that don’t play music that fits their formula.

    Both of the Davids got far more radio play by this point than any of the current breed, even Kris. Heck, David’s latest single just got passed in AI by Kris in the past few days. They have a lot of work to do to catch up.

  160. It’s taken me a bit of time to compile the following figures, and this might have already been discussed, but what the heck…. I’ve got it ready so I’m going to post it.

    There’s been some mention of the Davids’ airplay on Radio. Here are the facts from today’s Mediabase spin reports for the Davids, Kris, and Adam. (Hopefully I’ve pulled the correct numbers. Please correct me if I’m wrong.)

    I’m no expert on spin numbers, but I think that the 2 Davids have done pretty well in the last year (and a half) on radio. Also, David Cook’s numbers are skewed in a positive way, due to the ‘monster’  status of his coronation song, TOML, which is still spinning merrily along. So please, don’t make comparisons between the two D’s totals. Cook has a built in advantage due to TOML.

    David Archuleta
    Crush (Platinum) – Year to Date: 137,693. Last 7 days: 426
    A Little To Not Over You – Year to Date: 9,131. Last 7 days: 5
    Zero Gravity (Unreleased to radio?) – Year to Date: 36
    Total spins to date for 3 songs: 146,860

    David Cook
    Time Of My Life (Platinum) – Year to Date: 200,208. Last 7 days: 888
    Light On (Platinum) – Year to Date: 152,138. Last 7 days: 873
    Come Back To Me – Year to Date: 83,687. Last 7 days: 1473
    Total spins to date for 3 songs: 436,033

    Now here’s Kris and Adam’s current numbers. Keep in mind they have the next year to build spin count. Let’s hope that they have similar success like the Davids. :)

    Kris Allen
    Live Like We’re Dying – Year to Date: 9,161. Last 7 days: 2188
    No Boundaries – Year to Date: 4,882. Last 7 days: 7
    Heartless (Unreleased to Radio?) – Year to Date: 580. Last 7 days: 6
    Total spins to date for 3 songs: 14,623

    Adam Lambert
    For Your Entertainment – Year to Date: 829. Last 7 days: 414
    Time For Miracles – Year to Date: 25. Last 7 days: 6
    No Boundarie – Year to Date: 328. Last 7 days: 0
    Total spins to date for 3 songs: 1182

    Now the question posted up thread was does radio spin drive sales. In terms of the Davids it appears that it did, even though touring might have helped them along. But CBTM & A Little To Not Over You would be the songs to look at in that regard. Crush, TOML, and Light On all have terrific spin numbers which resulted in platinum sales for all three. CBTM has not had as many spins. It’s current sales numbers are unknown but the last numbers we’ve had were that it sold 359,000. (I also don’t have the totals for David A. ALTNOY.) Draw your own conclusions.

    Now is radio spins the only way to sell singles/records? Of course not, that’s why there are videos, tours, internet spins, etc. But it sure does help.

  161. The first number is the chart ranking two weeks ago. The second number is the chart ranking last week. This current week will report sales next week.

    What you’ve grabbed are the raw numbers from SoundScan in teletype format. I just format them a little.

    Thank you! I’m copying that off so I won’t ask again. We almost need a FAQ section at the top of all mediabase and sales days threads!

  162. wordnerdarchie,

    Your analysis is intersting but I think the cmparison should be made to what Crush, LO, LLWD and FYE were all doing at the same point in their lifecycles. Comparing Cook and Archie, who have been out for over a year each, to Adam and Kris, who have only been ot for a couple fo weeks, doesn’t really provide an accurtae picture for comprison at the same time in their respective careers.

    Additionally, Adam’s NoBo was released to radio from what I recall.

  163. thanks wordnerdarchie – i was actually looking at these numbers a few days ago LOL

    anovich- i dont think wordnerd was directly comparing them, just an over all example of how radio spins help to drive sales

  164. I rather liked Archie’s second single and was disappointed it didn’t get much attention or spins. Did Zero Gravity get spins from only Radio Disney?

    Overall I still hear Cook’s singles played on the radio, Crush was very rare, I heard a Kris promo, but not the single, and nothing from Adam yet.

    Then again I’m not an avid radio person, just when I’m driving.

  165. annovich, thank you for the correction to NB for Adam. Note that I’m not trying to make any comparison to Kris and Adam (but I was just supplying their current information as a courtesy and to pre-empt any questions in regards to their total spins that could crop up).

    I was trying to address Trina’s question as to whether radio spins were necessary for sales. In no way am I making any comparison to Adam and Kris’s current spins. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear in my post. :)

    Also, I’m not sure as to whether Radio Disney is monitored by Mediabase. I believe there are others here who might have that information.

  166. data- yes zg was only sent to radio disney, it wasnt released to regular radio at all.

  167. wordnerdarchie, thanks for clarifying where you were going with your post. But I do think it would be interesting to see the numbers for all4 at equal points in their careers respectively to have a better comparison point.

  168. Fourth’ ¦No one has yet given me evidentiary proof that an Artist ‘needs’  radio to succeed.

    LOL. Are you kidding me? Then why would any Label send singles and spend money on radio promo? LOL. Adam needs radio. I doubt that 19/RCA shares your opinion on the importance of radio.

    Lady Gaga opened with 24,000 album sales last October 2008. She has now sold 1.5 million albums. Her singles get massive radio play. In fact, NYC’s Z100 played Gaga’s music like mad since her album dropped. This year’s Lady Gaga ranked: Poker Face #3, Just Dance #22, LoveGame #28, Paparazzi #29, Bad Romance #129 and gaining. Telephone # 311 and gaining. And that’s just 1 station. Gaga was played on Top 40 stations nationwide.

    Tess, if you really want to hear David Cook on radio, you should tune into Phoenix’s – 96.9 FM. They played Come Back to me 4 times yesterday: 6AM, 10AM, 4PM, 11PM. I’m sure they’ve already played it today.

  169. Thanks, wordnerdarchie for the #’s. Thanks for answering my question, frogcooke. I thought so, bah, but good on Radio Disney.

  170. You still need to prove this to me. I know of hundreds of Artists who have very successful albums, tour well, and don’t get played on the radio.

    Well, they’re successful, but they aren’t *the* *most* *successful,* right? I.e., their songs and albums don’t sell multiplatinum?

    The problem is that, when you’re talking about Idols, the overwhelming opinion expressed here and everywhere else seems to be that any Idol who doesn’t sell at that level is a failure, no matter whether they get critical acclaim, sell out small concert halls, make a string of 300,000-plus-selling albums, etc.

    Seems to me the only real dispute here is between folks who say, “Hey, many people ‘succeed’ in music without selling two million of their latest album!” and the loud (apparent) consensus in the media, on blogs, etc., that says, “No Idol is successful unless he/she sells (at least!) two million of the latest album (or, at least, of the latest single)!”

    It’s very very very difficult to get into that multiplat category — which many people seem to hold as the crazy standard for Idols — without significant radio play, especially on pop, though Country and HAC can help achieve it. (though not impossible. See Groban, Josh, “Noel” for the counter example … although, come to think of it, I think that got a heck of a lot of radio play once the holiday-music period started…)

    But you certainly can get success of the other kind without that radio play. No question about that. … I’d be thrilled if people didn’t keep calling all the Idols who don’t meet the multiplat standard failures. But it just keeps happening. Was just reading this morning over on TWOP that numerous Danny fans consider Bucky Covington and Josh Gracin quite unsuccessful country singers (despite Josh’s gold album, their many top 20 radio songs, etc.) while they have hopes that Danny actually *will* be “a success” — meaning a multiplat seller. It would be news to most musicians that Bucky and Josh have been total failures, but in Idol world many count them as such.

  171. Is XM Radio monitored? I have heard David Cook (all three songs) MANY times on 3 or 4 different stations.

  172. For all the rancor about the new version of Heartless on Kris’ album, it’s the second most downloaded track off the album. LOL, somebody likes it! It’s inching its way up iTunes, now at #163 overall.

    Three different sources of LLWD are charting now (two on top 200, 3 on pop), so it’s hard to gauge how the single itself is moving up with all the promo this week. The main version sold as the single is holding very steady at around #45, with downloads from the two different album options both showing up on the iTunes charts.

  173. thanks for clarifying where you were going with your post. But I do think it would be interesting to see the numbers for all4 at equal points in their careers respectively to have a better comparison point.

    anovich, I’ve checked mediabase and there are archived reports there so that information would be available, but release dates for each single would need to be known and it would take a little bit of time.

  174. Does radio even matter anymore? I mean who really listens to the radio for music anymore? The industry needs to find new and improved ways for artists to get their music out to the audiences. Getting a song in a movie, TV show or commercial is one way. I think all the buzz about songs needing radio play is going to be a thing of the past if it isn’t already. The main thing that Idol contestants need to do is TOUR TOUR TOUR when the irons HOT (When they leave Idol and still have their Idol fans).

  175. Seems to me the only real dispute here is between folks who say, ‘Hey, many people ‘succeed’ in music without selling two million of their latest album!’  and the loud (apparent) consensus in the media, on blogs, etc., that says, ‘No Idol is successful unless he/she sells (at least!) two million of the latest album (or, at least, of the latest single)!’ 

    I think the level of success should be based on what the artist wants for him/herself. The argument here around Adam i think stems from the fact that many believe Adam wants to be the huge arena-selling performer but his current singles sales currently don’t seem to support that.

  176. Does radio even matter anymore? I mean who really listens to the radio for music anymore? The industry needs to find new and improved ways for artists to get their music out to the audiences.

    My husband listens to pandora radio. You tell it what kind of music you like or what artists you like and it suggests other artists that are similar. He has really found a lot of new music this way.

  177. Does radio even matter anymore? I mean who really listens to the radio for music anymore?

    How did Katy Perry become known? Radio. “I Kissed A Girl” was Katy’s big break out single. So yes, I do think radio still matters.

  178. Does radio even matter anymore? I mean who really listens to the radio for music anymore? The industry needs to find new and improved ways for artists to get their music out to the audiences. Getting a song in a movie, TV show or commercial is one way.

    Top single sellers:

    1 OWL CITY FIREFLIES
    2 LADY ANTEBELLUM NEED YOU NOW695031
    3 IYAZ REPLAY
    4 JAY-Z + ALICIA KEYS EMPIRE STATE OF MIND
    5 LADY GAGA BAD ROMANCE
    6 KE$HA TIK TOK
    7 SPEARS*BRITNEY 3
    8 CYRUS*MILEY PARTY IN THE U.S.A.
    9 DERULO*JASON WHATCHA SAY
    10 RIHANNA RUSSIAN ROULETTE

    Make of that what you will.

  179. Well, I agree that Idols who don’t sell multi-platinum out the gate can still be successful. BUT, I also believe that the bottom line for these idol people is to make a profit for their label. So while you CAN have a career without some type of sustained presence on radio, it is highly unlikely you will have the type of career that will make enough cash that a major will keep you on their roster. Bucky and Josh did get Country radio spins, and a lot of them. So again, these dudes need to get a toehold somewhere so they can make enough cash through single sales, album sales, touring, licensing and merchandising so that their label to get a healthy return on their investment IMO.

  180. LLWD was not doing better at the same point. Kirsten did not give CHR numbers for LLWD or FYE because neither was high enough on the CHR chart yet.

    If you can find numbers that show LLWD was doing better on the CHR charts(on 10/12) than FYE(on 11/16), please post the information!

    LLWD:
    10/12

    Total: 430
    Pop: 201
    HAC: 229
    Aud: 4.39

    FYE:
    11/16

    Total: 417
    Pop: 200
    HAC: 217
    Aud: 1.64

    Looks like they are both about the same. If anything, Kris was slightly better, but a lead of 13 spins isn’t enough to consider it significant.

    This info is from Mediabase, by the way

    ———-

    …and LOL to some questioning as to whether radio is important anymore. Radio is still one of the primary ways people hear music. It may not be as dominant as it once was, because sure there is the internet and television, but to almost completely disregard its impact on song sales is ignorant and foolish.

    Tess, why would you say that you never listen to radio except when in your daughter’s car, and then turn around and say that you never hear Cook and Archie on the radio but they seem to be doing okay? If you never listen to radio, it makes sense that you wouldn’t ever hear them. Sure they don’t have Gaga-level of pervasiveness on the radio, but Cook is very successful at Hot AC and both have had significant airplay at some point in their careers.

  181. I think the level of success should be based on what the artist wants for him/herself. The argument here around Adam i think stems from the fact that many believe Adam wants to be the huge arena-selling performer but his current singles sales currently don’t seem to support that.

    Yeah, I think you’re right. … Of course, I suspect this is what just about everybody dreams about at the beginning (well, maybe not Melinda D., I suppose!). But after reality takes shape in front of their eyes, it seems to me that all the idols pretty much readjust their hopes and dreams and end up pretty happy just getting to do what they love in front of crowds big enough to pay the bills. Adam will go through this process too, no doubt. (unless he does become the big arena sensation — I’m not holding my breath for that, but I guess I wouldn’t completely zero out the possibility either …)

  182. I’m just happy we will finally figure out that mystery ITUNES pass to see how that threw a monkey wrench into Kris’s singles sales. This whole season has been confusing.

    Explain this to those of us that are new and ignorant to the whole thing.

    Sorry, work gets in the way of my posting. :) What I mean is that Kris’s single sales compared to David Cook’s LO sales are dismal. The first week sales for LLWD were a fraction of what Cook sold. (Correct me hardcore Cook fans if I am wrong, but didn’t he sell 106,000 the first week?) BUT, there was no ITUNES pass for Cook. And I think we are all unclear if the ITUNES pass counts for the album sales or does Kris get credit for the single sale once it is downloaded? When we get Kris’s first week numbers for his album, I am assuming (so we know what I will look like after the numbers come out) that his album numbers should be pretty strong.

  183. Well, I agree that Idols who don’t sell multi-platinum out the gate can still be successful. BUT, I also believe that the bottom line for these idol people is to make a profit for their label. So while you CAN have a career without some type of sustained presence on radio, it is highly unlikely you will have the type of career that will make enough cash that a major will keep you on their roster.

    I agree completely.

    My point was really that discussions of “success” get messed up and very hard to navigate when you’re talking about Idols because a lot of people have that extremely narrow “multiplat or bust” definition for them (which few actually apply to people who are not idols, it would seem to me). And it would be nice if people would say how they’re defining “success” so people would know whether they’re talking about the same thing or not.

  184. My point was really that discussions of ‘success’  get messed up and very hard to navigate when you’re talking about Idols because a lot of people have that extremely narrow ‘multiplat or bust’  definition for them (which few actually apply to people who are not idols, it would seem to me). And it would be nice if people would say how they’re defining ‘success’  so people would know whether they’re talking about the same thing or not.

    Yeah, I’m with you there. Honesty any former Idol who does not have a day job… supporting themselves solely through the music and/or entertainment industry…that person is successful to me. That’s pretty much why I don’t worry about them much. Heh. Anyone who came off the show with any kind of fanbase has been able to do at least that. And great for them!

  185. First’ ¦I have never heard the David’s here’ ¦.but again my radio time is limited.

    Sort a nerdy side point, but I think it’s relevant: there are many aspects of the whole artist-watching deal that are pretty much totally subjective, such as “is so and so a big star OR who’s the biggest star”

    The extent to which someone is on the radio (has airplay) is simply a measurable fact though. That’s what the reporting does. *None* of us can accurately guess national radio play from what we hear in the hours we happen to drive in our particular town–it’s the accumulation of millions of spins in hundreds of markets reaching millions of people.

    Even when you feel like you’re hearing a song “everywhere”, you need a chart to tell you how it’s performing relative to other top songs. And if you’re not hearing a song, it’s equally inaccurate to assume that no one else is. National data might record that it’s being heard by millions of people that are not you, in markets somewhere else.

    For example, since debuting one year ago today, David Cook’s album has never been out of the top ten airplay for Idol alumni and he’s still there because even though he has no new music out, his three radio hits are still being spun as recurrents.

    That’s one of the things I enjoy about poking around Mediabase and Billboard–being surprised at the differences between my individual impressions of a song, and what the charts say about how widely its really being played and sold.

  186. Does radio even matter anymore?

    there would be no one posting and angsting and kvetching in these threads if it didn’t… it’s irrelevancy seems to be bandied about when one’s fave, anyone’s fave isn’t getting quite the response hoped for on it, lolol, but nonetheless it’s still the all important tiger singers and their labels want to tame… oh yes, it matters…

  187. I saw some people saying that radio is refusing to play Adam’s single. What facts do we have to support that? (Other than low airplay.) They may not be playing it much, but are they actually refusing to play it?

    people aren’t just stating their opinions, the fact is that for any artist to get noticed, and to build up a base, they need radio play.

    I’m sure that used to be true, and radio play can only be a good thing, but there are a lot of other avenues. But, as someone who used to listen to radio constantly, I almost never turn on the radio anymore. I don’t even know what stations, (if any), my car radio is set to. But, I listen to a lot of music, and hear about new (and/or new to me) artists all the time. So, it can be done without radio.

    Television is one medium that can make a big difference. When I hear a performance on Letterman, Conan, or elsewhere on TV that catches my attention, I check out what all they’ve done.

    IMO, the internet can make a huge difference in sales. Using SuBo as an example, her YouTube video is probably responsible for a large number of sales. Get something like that to go viral, and there is a much larger audience than radio, and it’s an audience that is actively engaging in listening to the performer, (seek out YouTube video, or have someone show it to them), vs. passively listening to the radio, which can become background noise and not really listened to.

    The internet has a lot of options for getting notice, other than YouTube. Twitter is one example. I often look at what is trending, wonder why, and check into it. One tweet from Adam, and his friend had a significant spike in sales. It can be a good sales tool.

    Word of mouth is another way to get notice. I have often ended up learning about new (to me, at least) performers via friends.

    I realize that people still listen to the radio a lot, but haven’t those numbers gone down quite a bit? I thought I saw something here that indicated that while people are still listening to talk radio and sports radio, the numbers have dropped a lot for top 40 type stations. Am I remembering that right? If so, it’s a good idea for an artist to be looking at other ways to get notice — but, of course, radio play would still be great, if it can happen.

  188. Yeah, I’m with you there. Honesty any former Idol who does not have a day job’ ¦ supporting themselves solely through the music and/or entertainment industry’ ¦that person is successful to me. That’s pretty much why I don’t worry about them much. Heh. Anyone who came off the show with any kind of fanbase has been able to do at least that. And great for them!

    still rockin’ tinawina…

  189. I noticed FYE (the album) is #40 on the itune chart. That’s better than yesterday. Do all the pre-sale numbers go toward the first week of sales?

  190. LLWD:
    10/12

    Total: 430
    Pop: 201
    HAC: 229
    Aud: 4.39

    FYE:
    11/16

    Total: 417
    Pop: 200
    HAC: 217
    Aud: 1.64

    I’m not a numbers guru, so perhaps someone that is could verify this…but it seems to me that the number of spins isn’t the most important figure, but the audience impression numbers. LLWD was being heard by quite a few more ears.

  191. You’re right, Izzie2, audience impression is a much more important number, because it actually estimates how many people the song is reaching. It’s not a perfect number by any means, but in the case of two songs with the same number of spins like these, but one of them has a much higher audience number, that means that it is being played in a bigger market or during a peak radio-listening time of day. In LLWD’s case, it was picked up by Z100.

  192. I’m still under the impression that everything is on track for Adam. I guess I always had the impression that the AMAs would be the start of promo work for Adam, and then we would see how things go for him. He had other things taking up his time, including preparing for the AMAs.

    IMO it’s important for the AMA performance to be top-notch, (especially considering who he’ll be sharing the stage with — a lesser performance would really look horrible), so that was more important at this point than radio interviews where he could be asked about AI. He can do those interviews later. He’s only got one shot at the AMAs, for this year, at least. He’s following that up with GMA and Letterman, and we’ll see what happens from there.

    I am still a bit surprised by the single’s sales, though, but until we get sales figures from the albums, we won’t know if people are preferring to buy the album, which includes the single, or if people just aren’t buying. Time will tell.

    But, Adam sold 26,065 last week, (second week of sales figures for FYE, very little radio play, no TV or other gigs). Someone else who has been getting radio spins, has done some performances, is doing promo work on radio and TV, and whose single has been out a little bit longer sold 21,402, so I’m still thinking that Adam is just getting started.

    All is well in my glittery mind.

  193. Honesty any former Idol who does not have a day job’ ¦ supporting themselves solely through the music and/or entertainment industry’ ¦that person is successful to me.

    Very good point. In the current economy, anyone with a job of any sort is doing great, but if someone can make their living in the field of their choice, especially one as difficult as the music industry, they are truly a success.

  194. I realize that people still listen to the radio a lot, but haven’t those numbers gone down quite a bit? I thought I saw something here that indicated that while people are still listening to talk radio and sports radio, the numbers have dropped a lot for top 40 type stations. Am I remembering that right?

    Yep. Radio audiences have been declining. But the thing is, record sales have been declining right along with radio. And for those artists left still selling consistently, radio play still seems to be the key common factor. So there has been no reliable alternative method developed yet that reliably pushes sustainable sales… at least not to the level needed for a major label to turn a profit. That is the problem. You do have your lightening-in-a-bottle situations like Susan Boyle, but those are rare. And honestly, if history holds on this, Ms Boyle will sell well through Christmas and completely disappear afterwards unless some radio format picks her up. Either way I’m guessing she’ll be able to ride the wave for a bit through touring if that happens. But by the next album people will be on to the next big thing unless she finds a way to sustain her buzz. I’m thinking El Divo part II, at least in the US.

    still rockin’ tinawina’ ¦

    (((gggdoorsfan))))

  195. I know Adam and Kris are doing pretty poor on Radio…can’t argue that and don’t intend to. And yes there is always a correlation between radio play and “immediate” success and sales.

    But I still believe that long term success and eventual revenue doesn’t always correlate with radio play out the gate. There are “radio” artists that will live and die by being played on the radio…and there are artists that have other ways of getting their music noted and purchased.

    I just keeping reading on this blog that radio play is THE ONLY measure of success. And I just don’t see it. And I am not talking about Adam and Kris, here, I will measure their success in a year based on their revenue for the year. I am saying that I feel people are putting all their emphasis on a single outlet. If radio were the only measure of success why would anyone tour. It’s hard work. Wouldn’t it be easier just to schmooze the radio stations and do a few “free” fan concerts and let radio sell you and your singles and your album.

  196. My husband listens to pandora radio.

    That’s a new one to me. Is it a subscription radio?

    I’m assuming that the spins getting talked about here don’t include a count of spins on something like this? Would that be correct?

  197. But, Adam sold 26,065 last week, (second week of sales figures for FYE, very little radio play, no TV or other gigs). Someone else who has been getting radio spins, has done some performances, is doing promo work on radio and TV, and whose single has been out a little bit longer sold 21,402, so I’m still thinking that Adam is just getting started.

    But the person who has been out longer has been getting people to buy for much longer so there are not as many new buyers available.

  198. I know Adam and Kris are doing pretty poor on Radio’ ¦can’t argue that and don’t intend to.

    I think Kris is doing okay and Adam is not, but it is still early and they can both end up fine.

    But I still believe that long term success and eventual revenue doesn’t always correlate with radio play out the gate.

    Well I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t think everything rides on these 2 songs. I think they both need to do well enough to get to the next song, and they both need to eventually find a niche that will play them.

    I just keeping reading on this blog that radio play is THE ONLY measure of success.

    I’m not seeing that. I am seeing people saying that is the way to gain new fans so you can keep selling songs, albums and/or and concert tickets over a sustained period of time. Maybe you can build something off one hit. Maybe you can make it work with a string of moderate hits. But you need a non-AI audience to become exposed to you and your music repeatedly, and while you have their attention you need to persuadesome of those people to stick around for more.

  199. Yep. Radio audiences have been declining. But the thing is, record sales have been declining right along with radio.

    I think that sales suffer a lot due to illegal downloads. I don’t know the solution for that, but I hope that the music industry gets their heads out of the sand, and works on that problem.

    There are a lot of songs that I might have bought in the past, but in this economy, I’ll settle for heading out to YouTube and listening there, and not spend the money, so even legal means of listening to songs whenever someone wants are available without purchasing them. That’s a huge factor in sales drops, IMO.

  200. It seems like everything is not important anymore. Single sales, radio play, … Hopefully album sales do not make that list next Wednesday.

  201. But the person who has been out longer has been getting people to buy for much longer so there are not as many new buyers available.

    I would hope that if someone’s sales are a total of 119,553, there are still a lot more new buyers available. Give him time, and we’ll see if there are or not.

  202. But the person who has been out longer has been getting people to buy for much longer so there are not as many new buyers available.

    I would hope that if someone’s sales are a total of 119,553, there are still a lot more new buyers available. Give him time, and we’ll see if there are or not.

    I agree. I hope neither of them have gone anywhere near their peak in sales.

  203. I just keeping reading on this blog that radio play is THE ONLY measure of success.

    I haven’t seen that. But it is one of the fastest ways for these Idols to gain sales beyond their initial fanbase. They are signed with major labels who seem to have less patience in nurturing talent and have higher sales expectations. With AI losing some of its relevance and popularity (people are not going to buy just anything by their favorites anymore) and illegal downloading, decent radio play is a way to help with sales. With Adam and Kris’ apparent smaller fan bases than previous seasons, it’s even more important.

    By success, I mean enough sustained sales to ensure album #2 with their prospective major label.

  204. I saw some people saying that radio is refusing to play Adam’s single. What facts do we have to support that? (Other than low airplay.) They may not be playing it much, but are they actually refusing to play it?

    Well, any time you send any song for adds, and then the stations don’t play it, they actually are “refusing to play it,” because they’ve got it, they know that you’d like them to play it, they’ve probably even gotten an individual pitch from the label and maybe even a visit or phone interview with the artist to help fill their air time, but they aren’t playing it nevertheless. Hard to see why “refusal” isn’t a pretty accurate word under those circumstances…. Of course, they are simultaneously “refusing to play” hundreds or even thousands of other songs for which labels have done the exact same thing!

  205. I’m not a numbers guru, so perhaps someone that is could verify this’ ¦but it seems to me that the number of spins isn’t the most important figure, but the audience impression numbers. LLWD was being heard by quite a few more ears.

    Well, I’d say both numbers are important in different ways. The audience impression is very important for sales, directly, because, as you say, more ears means more possible buyers. But the spins number is what actually sends you higher on the charts. So that’s important, too, because you get recognition for that number, other radio stations look at it and may decide to play based on it, you only get picked up on the America’s Top 40 shows and stations if you rise high enough, etc. Both matter, but in different ways.

  206. Tess

    You really can’t say that Kris is doing poorly on the radio. LLWD is in the Top 40 in pop and just outside the Top 20 in Hot AC. That really can’t be classified as “doing poorly”

    Also, has anyone seen the estimates for the 1st day of album sales for Kris, John Mayer, Leona Lewis, Norah Jones et al yet? Kirsten said they usually show up around 1 pm Eastern, and it’s well past that now.

  207. HDD is predicting 70-80K for Kris.

    Hope they’re wrong and he’s much higher than that.

  208. It seems that someone said that HDD is usually pretty close to the actual numbers.

  209. That’s about what I expected for Kris. Not a big debut by any means but decent in today’s climate of depressed album sales. I expect the album to have legs, not be huge right out of the gate.

  210. HDD predictions are usually right, but they do make another round of predictions towards the end of the week once they have more data.

  211. “It seems that someone said that HDD is usually pretty close to the actual numbers.”

    I don’t recall what they predicted for David A last year but they predicted around 300k for Cook and he came in around 280ish…so yeah…pretty close.

    S8 is turning out so weird.

  212. 70-80K is pretty much what i expected.

    john and norah debut big. leona falls short.

  213. I expected those numbers for Kris (I had him at 60k-100k). Although I expected them, they still are pretty bad. And it’s not boding well for him that LLWD doesn’t appear to be destined to become a big hit.

    Thank God I don’t care about anyone from this season or I’d be freaking out. lol

  214. Although I expected them, they still are pretty bad

    I feel like a year or two ago, 75-80k would indeed be “pretty bad.” But now that seems like a decent (not great or anything, but decent) number in the current economy.

    I mean, Leona Lewis’ debut sold over 300k copies in spring 2008 and this new album is looking to land in the mid 60k range now.

  215. “70-80K is pretty much what i expected.
    john and norah debut big. leona falls short.”

    leona’s lead single also didnt do so well…
    —————–

    “I don’t recall what they predicted for David A last year but they predicted around 300k for Cook and he came in around 280ish’ ¦so yeah’ ¦pretty close.”

    well they overshot archie’s by about 40-50k i think on the first day report, but his was also released on a holiday in addition to having the idol front loaded sales. originally i think they had him at like 220k range and he ended up selling 188k

  216. John Mayers numbers are amazing. They aren’t even that far off from what his 2006 CD sold its first week. That’s incredible considering the decline in CD sales.

    I hope Kris has a tough skin because I really do fear he’s going to get ripped apart in the press.

  217. 70-80K is also what I expected for Kris. I don’t expect Adam to go over 250K. Relying on hype alone can’t push it that high and the album cover is definitely detrimental to sales.

  218. I hope Kris has a tough skin because I really do fear he’s going to get ripped apart in the press.

    Nope, the press doesn’t care how Kris does. If Adam doesn’t outsell Kris, Adam will get completely ripped apart in the press. But I don’t think that the press expects Kris to outsell Adam. Not fair, but that is how it is.

  219. HDD has usually overestimated AIers (other than Kelly, Carrie, and Chris) based on one days because a higher percentage of their fans are 1st day buyers. Kris might not be in that situation so I’m hoping he hits the upper end of his projection. It doesn’t seem too likely that he’ll trend higher than that because he doesn’t any more TV performances this week right? I know he’s got his VH1 interview though.

    The Kris prediction is about where I expected it so I’m hoping he sells steady for the holiday season and then he starts picking up fans the old fashioned way through his touring and hopefully some more radio exposure for his singles.

  220. If Kris actually sells 70-80K this week, many of us here can pat ourselves on the back for getting it right (I predicted 60-80K). Not a bad bunch of idol pundits at all, perhaps we should start looking at horses and bet on them. Kris shouldn’t suffer from the usual big drop next week because of the Black Friday, it’ll be a decent number, close to this week’s.

    I predicted Adam Lambert to sell 140-180K next week, this prediction might not fare as well, but we’ll see.

  221. Hard to see why ‘refusal’  isn’t a pretty accurate word under those circumstances’ ¦. Of course, they are simultaneously ‘refusing to play’  hundreds or even thousands of other songs for which labels have done the exact same thing!

    I wouldn’t necessarily use the word “refuse,” unless of course they refuse to play it regardless of how well it sells, etc. I just don’t think PDs or DJs have had that much interest in it because there has been no promotion for it. I can’t see stations hating it so much that they refuse to play it, ever. I see more apathy. Let’s see in a month. The “refuse to play” phrase might be apt then. I would like to think, hopefully, that playing FYE is on these stations “to do” list. :) It’s the holidays, so I’m going to live in my little rainbow world for the time being.

  222. I just don’t think PDs or DJs have had that much interest in it because there has been no promotion for it. I can’t see stations hating it so much that they refuse to play it, ever.

    Well, I didn’t mean “ever.” All I meant was — they have it, they know the label wants it played, they aren’t playing it … So that’s “refusal” in my book, but it certainly wouldn’t have to be permanent! (Don’t know when the word “refuse” picked up the implication of permanence, actually…)

    However, I still do think that RCA has been promoting it, too, in the behind-the-scenes ways they do. I truly can’t imagine why they wouldn’t. They do that for every song. At the same time, I’m sure they’re depending on the AMAs/GMA/ Letterman etc., for the really big splash of promotion, so we’ll see if there’s more radio interest after those big events come off, in which Adam gets to show the world his live voice and his performing chops and charisma, which I’m sure the label hopes will be his real selling point — having the trifecta in that way … And if those events spur public interest, then radio interest will pick up, too. They’re not going to continue to “refuse” to play somebody who goes out and proves he has popular appeal!

  223. I’m going with 180-200K for Adam. Somebody has to benefit from the successful S8 tour.

  224. I’ll be happy if Kris actually sells 70-80k, since I predicted 30-50k. Looking at recent sales weeks, the overall drop in music sales, the economy, poor single sales, and (so far) limited radio play, it makes sense to me that this year’s crew won’t outsell Idols from previous years, at least at first. Any of them could still be slow but steady sellers, have a song take off on radio, or have a TV show or commercial use one of their songs. Continued use as a TV show theme song or in a frequently aired commercial seem to both be good ways for songs to break through. That’s what happened with Jason Mraz’s I’m Yours. It got noticed because it was in a commercial, then took off on radio.

    Album sales are really dismal right now. Sure, Carrie and John Mayer are having big opening weeks, but they are the exception rather than the rule. For the sales week that just ended, Bon Jovi is #1 with 166k. Nora Jones is predicted to be #2 for this week, with 150-160k. OneRepublic is only expected to sell 40-45k.

    http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/newsPage.cgi?news07840m01

    19/Jive/JLG American Idol winner Kris Allen’s debut should be between 75-80k, which will make for an interesting comparison when runner-up Adam Lambert’s album drops on Nov. 23.

    Yeah, the media aren’t going to let this go. It’s a juicy story for them either way- either the runner up out sells the winner, or the very hyped runner up fails to live up to expectations.

  225. jpfan, I think that might be pretty accurate for Adam. I had hoped for higher, but Kris’s sales are telling. It would be pretty great if Adam could hit 200K at this point; and if he doesn’t (and really, who knows) I expect he will get ripped in the press.

  226. I’m going with 180-200K for Adam. Somebody has to benefit from the successful S8 tour.

    I’m too confused at this point to even attempt a guess.

    I think the tour stops are filled with TV fans, uber-fans and some casual fans taking the kids out for a night out. Obviously, all of those people don’t buy the music – but you would think at least a few more would.

    At this point, it looks to be an uphill battle for both Kris and Adam. The bloom is off the rose for the big post AI initial week’s sales. This time, the music really is going to have to speak for itself. If they can’t find a way to appeal to the general publc, I think they’ll both be in big trouble.

  227. And I think Adam’s album is currently the #1 pre-sale album listed on the iTunes charts.

    That would be Rihanna, who’s pre-sale has never been behind Adam’s on the chart, and which was actually ranked higher and longer in the top ten. Not that that means a lot.

    Adam Lambert, FYE album is now at 24 overall on itunes – which means he is currently the #1 pre-sale on itunes. :-) (Rihanna is at 34.) :-)

    Single is moving up too. Currently at 50.

    I know his pre-order has been rockin it on Amazon — where aparently the grandmas hang out, but it’s nice to see it’s represented so well as a pre-order on iTunes, where aparently the cool people hang out, as well.

  228. I have a feeling if Britney put out FYE it would get immediate airplay and probably go straight to #1. I can’t believe radio isn’t playing it, it fits in perfectly w/the Top 40 format. I think FYE is the most radio friendly song on his album, maybe WWFM will be his next single, I just don’t think it’s as good. Hopefully after the AMA’s it will take off!!

  229. I know his pre-order has been rockin it on Amazon ‘” where aparently the grandmas hang out, but it’s nice to see it’s represented so well as a pre-order on iTunes, where aparently the cool people hang out, as well.

    LOL!

  230. Winks8
    know his pre-order has been rockin it on Amazon ‘” where aparently the grandmas hang out, but it’s nice to see it’s represented so well as a pre-order on iTunes, where aparently the cool people hang out, as well.

    Careful Wink8. We may be older – but we gots mo money! I pre-ordered from 3 different sites and I think that makes me pretty cool and I am a Great Grandma!

  231. Is radio airplay the only way to sell albums? Of course not. But there’s a pretty strong correlation between sustained radio support and sales success. Here’s how the year’s best-selling albums correlate to the artist’s rankings for overall airplay in 2009 (leaving off the compilations and soundtracks since airplay cannot be attributed to a single artist):

    Top 15 albums of chart year 2009:

    1 FEARLESS ‘“ Taylor Swift
    2 I AM’ ¦SASHA FIERCE ‘“ Beyonce
    3 DARK HORSE ‘“ Nickelback
    4 TWILIGHT ‘“ Soundtrack
    5 HANNAH MONTANA: THE MOVIE ‘“ Soundtrack
    6 CIRCUS ‘“ Britney Spears
    7 808S AND HEARTBREAK ‘“ Kanye West
    8 THE FAME ‘“ Lady GaGa
    9 RELAPSE ‘“ Eminem
    10 THE E.N.D. (THE ENERGY NEVER DIES) ‘“ Black Eyed Peas
    11 ONLY BY THE NIGHT ‘“ Kings Of Leon
    12 THE BLUEPRINT 3 ‘“ Jay-Z
    13 DAVID COOK ‘“ David Cook
    14 THE FOUNDATION – Zac Brown Band
    15 NOW 29 – Various

    Total spins for artists in the top 15 (Mediabase monitored panel):

    Rank/Artist/Spins
    1 BEYONCE 966707
    2 LADY GAGA 945862
    3 TAYLOR SWIFT 906472
    6 BLACK EYED PEAS 720717
    7 NICKELBACK 695130
    18 KANYE WEST 494392
    20 BRITNEY SPEARS 470186
    25 KINGS OF LEON 416046
    51 DAVID COOK 281175
    73 ZAC BROWN BAND 231203
    120 JAY-Z 149380
    241 EMINEM 75995

    And here are where the Idols rank amongst the top 1000 artists getting radio airplay in 2009:

    8 KELLY CLARKSON 660252
    15 DAUGHTRY 506245
    43 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 307856
    51 DAVID COOK 281175
    54 JORDIN SPARKS 276397
    138 JENNIFER HUDSON 133637
    228 KELLIE PICKLER 79944
    287 DAVID ARCHULETA 63977
    431 BUCKY COVINGTON 37587
    481 ELLIOTT YAMIN 33166
    513 FANTASIA 30734
    586 JOSH GRACIN 25269
    703 RUBEN STUDDARD 19073
    856 KRIS ALLEN 13419

  232. FYE – Well, at least, it’s almost 50% more this week but that would be real news if it sold 100K or up last week. But it was just 18K, then…it’s just meh.

  233. — 84 ADAM LAMBERT FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT

    debuted in Hot 100 this week. One of the worst position for debut single in Idol history.

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