Idol Sales News ‘“ Week Ending 12/06/09

After the Jump, today’s Idol Sales Numbers (Billboard Date 12/19/09)

Download Numbers
24 Kelly Clarkson “Already Gone” 37, 466 (-30%; lw 53, 511) Total: 847, 104 (23)
28 Carrie Underwood “Cowboy Casanova” 34, 672 (-33%; lw 51, 733) Total: 644, 007 (24)
38 Kris Allen “Live Like We’re Dying” 27, 641 (-12%; lw 31, 327) Total: 214, 308 (43)
81 Daughtry “Life After You” 16, 890 (44%; lw 11, 695) Total: 60, 563 (132)

Glee
26 Glee “Last Christmas” 36, 418 (150%; lw 14, 589) Total: 51, 007
62 Glee “Smile” – Chaplin 20, 333 (NEW) Total: 20, 333 (NEW)
66 Glee “Jump” 19, 979 (NEW) Total: 19, 979 (NEW)
80 Glee “Smile” – Lily Allen 17, 038 (NEW) Total: 17, 038 (NEW)

Album Numbers
6 Carrie Underwood “Play On” 80, 789 (-35%; lw 123, 870) Total: 737, 131
22 Adam Lambert “For Your Entertainment” 50, 999 (-74%; lw 198, 466) Total: 249, 902
34 David Archuleta “Christmas from the Heart” 33, 612 (57%; lw 21, 449) Total: 122, 246
35 Allison Iraheta “Just Like You 31, 656 (NEW; lw 11) Total: 31, 667
52 Kris Allen “Kris Allen” 22, 345 (-31%; lw 32, 531) Total: 134, 985
143 Kelly Clarkson “All I Ever Wanted” 8, 591 (-19%; lw 10, 584) Total: 774, 268
195 Daughtry “Daughtry” 5, 804 (-61%; lw 14, 901) Total: 4, 580, 629
197 Carrie Underwood “Carnival Ride” 5, 731 (4%; lw 5, 493) Total: 3, 008, 365

Idol Related:
1 Various “Now 32” 68, 313 (-10%; lw 76, 019) Total: 372, 285
61 Various “Now Country Christmas” 19, 837 (14%; lw 17, 422) Total: 69, 176
63 Various “WOW Hits 2010” 19, 264 (-9%; lw 21, 286) Total: 46, 224
119 Various “Now 31” 10, 272 (1%; lw 10, 196) Total: 791, 377
153 Various “Now Country V2” 8, 212 (10%; lw 7, 470) Total: 171, 898

Airplay before recurrents are removed (increase in Audience Impressions):

No. 8 – Kelly Clarkson (-1.6 million) – lw 8
No. 101 – Kris Allen (+0.7 million) – lw 114
No. 173 – Daughty (+3.8 million) – lw 278
No. 324 – Adam Lambert (+1.7 million) Whataya Want From Me
No. 487 – Carrie Underwood (+2.5 million)

And Streaming:
No. 5 Already Gone – lw 8

Last Week’s Numbers

Please post numbers as you find them. Thanks!

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

360 Comments

  1. Anticipating Questions:

    The early leak of download numbers include the top 50 songs and those that had strong gains. Later today, Brian at Idol Chatter will post the numbers for all Idols in the Top 200 downloads.

    The update is thick with Christmas songs today.
    18 14 CAREY*MARIAH ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS YO 54765 -13 62682 1389645
    — 26 GLEE CAST LAST CHRISTMAS 36418 150 14589 51007
    147 60 SWIFT*TAYLOR LAST CHRISTMAS 20695 97 10484 117474
    — 63 BOCELLI*ANDREA WHAT CHILD IS THIS 20097 403 3996 28096
    — 70 BUBLE*MICHAEL LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW, LET 18676 248 5367 252059
    182 77 LEE*BRENDA ROCKIN’ AROUND THE CHRISTMAS T 17271 97 8785 443874
    170 83 TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA CHRISTMAS CANON 16664 74 9581 451994
    154 84 HILL*FAITH WHERE ARE YOU CHRISTMAS? 16598 61 10317 411050
    — 91 HELMS*BOBBY JINGLE BELL ROCK 15678 117 7233 352909
    — 112 KITT*EARTHA SANTA BABY 12638 98 6369 344060
    — 113 CROSBY*BING WHITE CHRISTMAS 12557 66 7557 365036
    — 117 WHAM! LAST CHRISTMAS 12365 94 6376 306468
    — 118 FELICIANO*JOSE FELIZ NAVIDAD 12210 129 5337 378642
    — 123 COLE*NAT KING CHRISTMAS SONG 11814 105 5751 341874
    — 124 IVES*BURL HOLLY JOLLY CHRISTMAS 11700 75 6686 277954
    — 125 SPRINGSTEEN*BRUCE SANTA CLAUS IS COMIN’ TO TOWN 11595 56 7434 305739
    — 128 PEEVEY*GAYLA I WANT A HIPPOPOTAMUS FOR CHRISTMAS 11316 75 6455 169946
    — 136 LADY GAGA CHRISTMAS TREE 10550 226 3237 44769
    — 139 PRESLEY*ELVIS BLUE CHRISTMAS 10367 86 5562 291913
    168 146 FIONA*MELANIE IT KILLS ME 9920 3 9622 51259
    — 148 NEWSONG CHRISTMAS SHOES 9817 68 5839 218386
    — 153 CHIPMUNKS CHIPMUNK SONG (CHRISTMAS DON’T 9736 123 4369 307176
    — 169 LENNON*JOHN HAPPY X-MAS (WAR IS OVER) 9069 115 4220 170095
    — 171 WILLIAMS*ANDY IT’S THE MOST WONDERFUL TIME O 8978 63 5497 213241
    — 174 U2 CHRISTMAS (BABY PLEASE COME HO 8817 101 4377 235839
    — 175 LADY ANTEBELLUM BABY, IT’S COLD OUTSIDE 8766 61 5439 64210
    — 177 JACKSON 5 SANTA CLAUS IS COMIN’ TO TOWN 8421 178 3034 127381
    — 178 BAREILLES*SARA & INGRID MICHAE WINTER SONG 8379 73 4855 172494
    — 188 STRAIGHT NO CHASER 12 DAYS OF CHRISTMAS 7923 116 3676 68607
    — 189 TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA WIZARDS IN WINTER 7904 66 4754 256791
    — 191 GUARALDI*VINCE TRIO CHRISTMAS TIME IS HERE 7737 79 4321 230603

    I count three versions of “Last Christmas”. And go Gayla Peevey! That’s an adorable Christmas song.

  2. Looking at that list, I’m almost ashamed of how many of those songs are actually on my iPod. That Mariah one is the only song buy her I actually own LOL. In my defense, I host a few holiday festivities throughout the month, so I’ve got to mix up the playlists :)

    I have such a soft spot for that Smile song (the Chaplin one). I’m pretty sure I still have Gina’s idol performance of that one on my iPod too. Dang, I’m a pretty big dork.

    Even though I often want to punch that Tedder guy in the face, I have to say that Already Gone is such a vocal home run for Kelly. Every time I hear her sing it, I’m impressed.

  3. Way to go Kris! I think he’ll have another good week after this because he has been doing well on the i tunes chart this week.

  4. Kirsten, can you move the comma one place to the right for the “Cowboy Casanova” total sales? Thanks!

  5. Kirsten, can you move the comma one place to the right for the ‘Cowboy Casanova’  total sales?

    Oops! Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed.

  6. BAREILLES*SARA & INGRID MICHAE WINTER SONG

    ^^ Ooh, I lurve this song. It’s my happy winter song.

    No BB 200 leaks for any Idols this week, huh? I’m guessing we’ll have to wait on Brian this afternoon.

  7. Way to go Kris! I think he’ll have another good week after this because he has been doing well on the i tunes chart this week.

    This!!! I’m so amazed by how that song is doing (runs off to corner and hangs head in shame for ever doubting Kris)

  8. Wow, that’s one heck of a sleigh-full of Christmas songs!

    Have some iTunes this morning with your coffee:

    #30 Kelly
    #32 Kris (moved ahead of Bieber – moral victory!)
    #33 Carrie
    #62 Daughtry – Life After You
    #122 Long Way Down – Timbaland (featuring Daughtry)
    #141 Adam – FYE
    #147 Carrie What Can I Say
    #185 DCook Lie
    #192 Adam – WYWFM
    #193 Susan Doyle – I Dreamed a Dream

  9. Ok I’m asking a question here because I just don’t know. So please nobody get defensive. As far as Adam’s sales go, his album seems to be doing ok, is it his single that’s not? And Kris, vice versa, his single is doing well, but his album, not so much? I just started following the numbers this year, so it’s all still new to me. I’m really not trying to compare the two of them since I am so passed that, but it was just the most simple comparison. Someone could really go crazy trying to analyze all of this!! But it is fun to do regardless. :)

  10. 35 Adam Lambert ‘For Your Entertainment’  38,509 (98%; lw 19,465) Total: 102,436 (75)

    Im not to up on all these numbers’ ¦but by this, it does not look like FYE is dead by any means?

    Kanadie

    , this number is inflated because it represents sales that happened the same week that Adam’s album was released. If you look at FYE’s itunes ranking today, it is around 140 or lower. This is because the song isn’t getting any airplay, which is what leads to sales. The fall for FYE last week and this week will be very sharp. If you will notice, FYE doesn’t appear in the numbers that Kirsten posted, that’s because it is not ranked in the top 50 songs. WWFM, has the same problem, even though airplay is increasing, it’s not enough, yet, to account for a significant number of sales. We went through the same thing with Kris and LLWD, it’s not a reflection on the songs, even though it might be in the case of FYE, since that song was kicked to the curb by radio, and it’s not a reflection on Adam, it’s just an example of a lack of radio play. I don’t understand why people didn’t understand that when we were watching LLWD’s rise up the sales chart.

  11. To the serious numbers crunchers, how do sales of WWFM compare to LLWD when it had about the same AI? I’m guessing it would have the same ranking at iTunes (except that the Xmas music is pushing WWFD’s rank down.) Hope that wasn’t too confusing.

    I mean was LLWD selling around as many dls as WWFM at the same point in its radio life. Because with the increased radio play WWFM should be moving up on iTunes if Xmas music wasn’t screwing up the chart.

  12. Even though I often want to punch that Tedder guy in the face

    I don’t understand why people dislike Ryan Tedder. I like him and his music. I loooove Apologize (although I gotta admit I like Kris’s version better).

  13. As far as Adam’s sales go, his album seems to be doing ok, is it his single that’s not?

    WWFM has only been out for three weeks. LLWD was around the same place three weeks into the game.
    WWFM is getting impressive adds and the spins are increasing nicely. Adam is in the midst of his radio and tv promotion.
    It takes time, but everything is looking great!

  14. i say screw album sales, these three idols are awesome. Most exciting year for me and even better, just saw FYE on mtv twice this morning, HOLLAH! LOL, have patience people. Artists are not made overnight. These three are unique in their own ways, let them build their fanbases like everyone else. Everyone i know watches idol, but no one bought anyones cds and they love adam and kris. Thats just the way it goes, give these guys time.

  15. Ok I’m asking a question here because I just don’t know. So please nobody get defensive. As far as Adam’s sales go, his album seems to be doing ok, is it his single that’s not? And Kris, vice versa, his single is doing well, but his album, not so much? I just started following the numbers this year, so it’s all still new to me. I’m really not trying to compare the two of them since I am so passed that, but it was just the most simple comparison. Someone could really go crazy trying to analyze all of this!! But it is fun to do regardless.

    Frankly, sales of both of their albums and singles are fine and normal. It’s too early to say that Kris isn’t doing well in album sales, just like two weeks of sales and limited airplay was too soon to judge how LLWD would do, the same holds true for the album. The path that LLWD has taken should be a clue that an album’s success or failure isn’t determined by one week of sales.

    Even though Adam sold well the first week, but without a s single on the radio, his sales numbers will dry up. One of the reasons that second week sales see such a steep drop is because hardcore fans buy the album during the first week, it’s the casual fans who have to be won over by the individual singles, and the best way to reach them is through the radio. If Kris continues to have singles that do well on radio, that will increase both single sales and sales of the album. I’m not saying that either of these things will happen, in fact, even though WWFM isn’t selling well, it is on the right path as far as radio is concerned, which should increase sales of both the single and the album.

    I don’t get why a comparison needs to be made, but if we need to do so, it’s better to do it when we have more information. Why don’t we wait a few months before we start doing this.

    BTW, the airplay ranking chart really puts everything in perspective. Even if a song is ranked in the top 40 on the pop, HAC or country chart, that doesn’t mean it’s being played a lot, especially when recurrents are taken into consideration.

  16. Ok I’m asking a question here because I just don’t know. So please nobody get defensive. As far as Adam’s sales go, his album seems to be doing ok, is it his single that’s not? And Kris, vice versa, his single is doing well, but his album, not so much?

    That seems to be at least sort of true at the moment, but it’s not clear what it means, to me, anyway.

    Kris’s single has a much longer radio presence now than Adam’s has. Adam’s has been on radio only three weeks and is on fewer than a third as many stations as Kris has. Kris’s has been out for quite a few weeks. So what Kris’s single numbers seem to prove is that when more people hear LLWD more times, they want to buy it. Which is great news.

    But what Adam’s WWFM numbers prove, to me, anyway, is pretty much nothing at this point. In my opinion, not enough people have heard that song often enough to know they want to buy it. … I also don’t think it’s an instant grabber kind of song the way some top pop hits are — but then I don’t think that LLWD is, either. I think both are the kind of songs that have to grow on people before they buy. And what we know so far is that LLWD does have that effect, but little data is in on whether WWFM is or isn’t.

    On the album front, I have no idea what to say. I actually think that, while both are probably “album artists” more than single artists, Kris is more of an album artist than Adam, even though at this point Kris has sold fewer albums. Now, Kris’s album sales are stabilizing — so I’m guessing that means that, after people are hearing LLWD for a while, a significant number are then deciding, Hey, I like this *guy*, so I’ll buy his album. … On the other hand, it’s still in the pre-Christmas sales period, so a good chunk of those sales may be coming from slow-acting Idol fans. … It’s probably just too early to tell.

  17. Kirsten, I’m kinda new to the numbers game too. Is this figure the cumulative number sold?

    38 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  27,641 (-12%; lw 31,327) Total: 214,308 (43)

    And why did you not list Adam and Allison’s numbers there? Just curious. Thanks!! You are so nice to do this for us each week!!

  18. If WWFM has been out for three weeks, why does it only have one week of sales? The FYE album has two weeks of sales.

  19. #193 Susan Doyle ‘“ I Dreamed a Dream

    Tee hee at the typo.

    Glad to hear it was typo. I thought maybe there was a copycat Susan coming along already!

  20. I don’t expect WWFM to pick up sales until after Christmas. I have the CD so I will only buy the videos. Do vid sales count as singles sales? Congrats to Kris for being over 200k in sales for LLWD!

  21. To the serious numbers crunchers, how do sales of WWFM compare to LLWD when it had about the same AI?

    I don’t know if we can ever get an apple to apple comparison with WWFM and LLWD. WWFM is leaking sales to the album, but it also is getting performed on television shows as part of that album promo (e.g. Ellen last week and Adam is on several shows this week).

    Adam’s AI is currently 6.247 + 1.288 on the published charts (Pop and HAC) or 7.535 between the two charts. Were never going to get that exact same number, but let’s look at November 2nd when the song had 5.092 and 2.461 on the published charts or 7.553 (thanks to kworb on Pulse who tracks this stuff daily). That day, the song was in the 105-108 range.

  22. 38 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  27,641 (-12%; lw 31,327)

    Diane: Last week: 31,327
    This week: 27,641

  23. To the serious numbers crunchers, how do sales of WWFM compare to LLWD when it had about the same AI? I’m guessing it would have the same ranking at iTunes (except that the Xmas music is pushing WWFD’s rank down.) Hope that wasn’t too confusing.

    I think that there are too many variables to take into consideration. LLWD was Kris’ first single, and it didn’t come out during the week where Kris was releasing his album. Kris didn’t perform LLWD in front of a national audience until it had been out for almost two months. On the other hand, WWFM got a little boost from Adam performing it on various shows during his album release week. Unlike FYE and WWFM, it didn’t benefit from being the first single, and having a lot of hardcore fans buy it in bulk.

  24. Kirsten, I’m kinda new to the numbers game too. Is this figure the cumulative number sold?

    Yes.

    And why did you not list Adam and Allison’s numbers there? Just curious.

    They have not leaked yet. Brian should post the rounded SS numbers for them later today. The early leaks of the download numbers are the top 50, debuters and major gainers in the Top 200.

  25. I think that it’s far too early to predict either great success or terrible failure for either Kris or Adam regarding their CD and single sales. It’s still early days and I hope that both of these guys are successful.

  26. I don’t get why a comparison needs to be made, but if we need to do so, it’s better to do it when we have more information. Why don’t we wait a few months before we start doing this.

    Well I have nothing more to compare it to since the artists who came out around the same time were not Idols. I certainly wasn’t going to compare them to Lady GaGa or Rhianna. They are more established. Plus it was just a question that I prefaced by saying something like that in the first place. No need to be defensive. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will do well and go onto to have good careers in their genre. I wasn’t knocking Kris I was just simply asking about facts is all.
    THANK YOU LUCY FOR TAKING THE TIME TO EXPLAIN THAT. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!

  27. Thanks for the info Kirsten. I think that having two Adam singles out – is kind of screwing the single sales up. It may help the album but it’s confusing for the singles. Especially with a video for FYE but radio playing WWFM.

    Quite a messy roll out.

  28. SOUNDSCAN (WEEK ENDING 12/6/09)

    1) Susan Boyle ‘“ I Dreamed A Dream ‘“ 527,345 (After 2 weeks ‘“ 1,224,196)
    2) Andrea Bocelli ‘“ My Christmas ‘“ 428,351 (After 5 weeks ‘“ 1,115,419)
    3) Taylor Swift ‘“ Fearless ‘“ 127,226 (After 56 weeks ‘“ 4,637,608)

    Other Debuts
    4) R. Kelly ‘“ Untitled ‘“ 114,172
    25) Alvin & The Chipmunks: The Squeakquel Soundtrack ‘“ 38,632
    31) Allison Iraheta ‘“ Just Like You ‘“ 31,656
    43) Juvenile ‘“ Cocky And Confident ‘“ 23,015
    47) Enya ‘“ The Best of Enya ‘“ 21,902

  29. Caria:
    Did you see the info I posted on WWFM? I’m not sure why LLWD is not driving album sales. Maybe the album will need to have a couple more singles off of it before we start to see better numbers.

    Don’t stop asking questions. I didn’t find your question to be offensive at all.

  30. If WWFM has been out for three weeks, why does it only have one week of sales? The FYE album has two weeks of sales.

    What? This is the second week that we will get numbers for FYE the album. We don’t have this week’s number’s for WWFM, because it didn’t sell enough to make the top 50. We’ll have them later when Brian releases the numbers. If I remember correctly, it sold 10,000 copies last week, I don’t know how many it sold the week before that, but you can look it up on idol chatter, but that number might have been too small for Brian to report. I don’t think he can report numbers that are less than 1000 units sold. The problem with WWFM is that most people don’t know that it exists, so the numbers aren’t going to be very high. In fact, FYE’s numbers, for last week and this week, will be higher.

  31. Single sales and albums don’t always go hand in hand. Lots of artists who hit the top of the Top 40 chart can’t sell albums to save their life.
    And some people sell albums but can’t sell singles.

    Jordin, for example, can sell singles but really struggled with her album sales. So it’s a pretty complicated situation. As long as an artist is successful in some area (radio, singles, albums) they’re usually fine. Of course, have success in all and you’re a megastar.

  32. Kirsten
    12/09/2009 at 10:31 am
    Kirsten, I’m kinda new to the numbers game too. Is this figure the cumulative number sold?

    Yes.

    And why did you not list Adam and Allison’s numbers there? Just curious.

    They have not leaked yet. Brian should post the rounded SS numbers for them later today. The early leaks of the download numbers are the top 50, debuters and major gainers in the Top 200

    Thanks!! And thanks gemini1.

  33. Thank you Gemini1!! I just saw your response, so thanks for addressing. I simply noticed that one seemed to do better on singles and one better on albums….so far. If I was wrong about that, I’m always up for a constructive conversation about it. I do know that it is still so early in their careers, but I’m seriously just curious about all of this. And yes I will keep asking questions! Thanks again!

  34. Well I have nothing more to compare it to since the artists who came out around the same time were not Idols. I certainly wasn’t going to compare them to Lady GaGa or Rhianna. They are more established. Plus it was just a question that I prefaced by saying something like that in the first place. No need to be defensive. I have no doubt in my mind that both of them will do well and go onto to have good careers in their genre. I wasn’t knocking Kris I was just simply asking about facts is all.
    THANK YOU LUCY FOR TAKING THE TIME TO EXPLAIN THAT. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!

    I wasn’t being defensive, just stating the fact that it is too early to make any claims about the success or failure of these singles and albums, which is also what others have said. I think that the path that LLWD has taken makes it pretty clear that an album or single isn’t a success or failure base on one week of sales. I doubt that anyone will see Adam as an album seller, if he doesn’t have successful singles that lead to people buying the album. If he continues to see the drops like this week, whiles still not having a song on radio (which won’t happen), he’s obviously not going to sell any albums, or reach beyond his AI fanbase.

  35. I’m not sure if these has been posted from last week, so I apologize if someone has done it already (although I’m posting largely for the David Cook numbers which I don’t think have been posted) – last week digital album charts –

    CHART: Current Digital Albums
    Week Ending: 11/29/2009 Display: WeeksOn Label 2WRank LWRank TWRank Artist Title TWSales %CHG LWSales RTDSales

    1 RCA 5 LAMBERT*ADAM FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT 37,642 999 161 37,803
    4 ARNV 4 15 23 UNDERWOOD*CARRIE PLAY ON 5,369 -30 7,631 93,349
    2 JIVE 6 32 ALLEN*KRIS KRIS ALLEN 3,634 -85 24,147 27,781
    38 RCA 126 110 36 CLARKSON*KELLY ALL I EVER WANTED 3,343 240 984 164,223
    7 JIVE 99 65 49 ARCHULETA*DAVID CHRISTMAS FROM THE HEART 2,711 68 1,614 11,574
    20 RCA 30 56 59 DAUGHTRY LEAVE THIS TOWN 2,103 21 1,745 137,090
    1 RCA 133 COOK*DAVID DAVID COOK 902 238 267 157,189
    1 JIVE 182 SPARKS*JORDIN BATTLEFIELD 603 205 198 23,533

    CHART: 2009 YTD Current Digital Albums
    Week Ending: 11/29/2009
    14 RCA CLARKSON*KELLY ALL I EVER WANTED 164,223
    22 RCA DAUGHTRY LEAVE THIS TOWN 137,090
    35 ARNV UNDERWOOD*CARRIE PLAY ON 93,349
    51 RCA COOK*DAVID DAVID COOK 72,237
    125 RCA LAMBERT*ADAM FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT 37,803
    129 19RE LAMBERT*ADAM SEASON 8 FAVORITE PERFORMANCES 37,514
    179 JIVE ALLEN*KRIS KRIS ALLEN 27,781

    ETA – just noting that the Amazon sales probably added ~600 extra copies sold for David Cook.

  36. If WWFM has been out for three weeks, why does it only have one week of sales? The FYE album has two weeks of sales.

    I think WWFM has been released to radio for three weeks. I don’t think it’s been a downloadable single for sale all that time though. I’m not 100% certain though.

    Either way, it has to play “catch up”. Releasing and then abandoning FYE on radio wasted a couple of weeks there. Hopefully, now that it’s getting some radio play, it will start to do its job.

  37. Understood babybelle32. I honestly believe they will both be successful in their own rights. I mean last year at this time, look what they were doing. I wish them both the best of luck.

  38. i say screw album sales, these three idols are awesome. Most exciting year for me and even better, just saw FYE on mtv twice this morning, HOLLAH! LOL, have patience people. Artists are not made overnight. These three are unique in their own ways, let them build their fanbases like everyone else. Everyone i know watches idol, but no one bought anyones cds and they love adam and kris. Thats just the way it goes, give these guys time.

    Aww, I think I love you :-) This made me happy!

    I think that there are too many variables to take into consideration. LLWD was Kris’ first single, and it didn’t come out during the week where Kris was releasing his album.

    Yes, – I think that this, plus FYE ALSO being out and getting in the way, are what are affecting WWFM’s sales right now on itunes. Lots of people got it on the album, because of the timing, which was different from Kris’s. I say, as long as the radio play for WWFM keeps improving, more people will hear and buy it. It really is a very catchy, good song (and reminds me of Daughtry’s It’s Not Over in a good way :-)

  39. CHART: Current Digital Albums
    1 RCA 5 LAMBERT*ADAM FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT 37,642 999 161 37,803
    4 ARNV 4 15 23 UNDERWOOD*CARRIE PLAY ON 5,369 -30 7,631 93,349
    2 JIVE 6 32 ALLEN*KRIS KRIS ALLEN 3,634 -85 24,147 27,781
    38 RCA 126 110 36 CLARKSON*KELLY ALL I EVER WANTED 3,343 240 984 164,223
    7 JIVE 99 65 49 ARCHULETA*DAVID CHRISTMAS FROM THE HEART 2,711 68 1,614 11,574
    20 RCA 30 56 59 DAUGHTRY LEAVE THIS TOWN 2,103 21 1,745 137,090
    1 RCA 133 COOK*DAVID DAVID COOK 902 238 267 157,189
    1 JIVE 182 SPARKS*JORDIN BATTLEFIELD 603 205 198 23,533

    Thanks, Hazehel. How do you interpret these numbers? The YTD are pretty self-explanatory, but the 1’s 4’s and 7’s in front of the label name, the single, double or triple digit numbers after the label name, and then all the numbers at the end… very confused. Thanks!

  40. THANK YOU LUCY FOR TAKING THE TIME TO EXPLAIN THAT. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!

    You’re welcome, CariA! Perhaps just talking through my hat, though!

  41. Sorry, can’t edit, figured it out!

    WeeksOn Label 2WRank LWRank TWRank Artist Title TWSales %CHG LWSales RTDSales

  42. I’m confused. Adam’s original single (the one that was released separately from the album) was FYE. And then WWFM was pushed as the “new” single, even though there doesn’t appear to be a single release on iTunes for that song, just the album version. Is there any reason radio stations can’t add David Cook’s “Lie” since it sold so well this week? I mean right now it’s higher on the iTunes chart (187) than WWFM (192). I guess I just don’t understand this stuff!

  43. You’re welcome, CariA! Perhaps just talking through my hat, though!

    Lucy! You may have been talking through your hat, but it made a lot of sense!!

  44. Oops, sorry for the Susan Boyle typo – I was in a hurry and added her last minute. No offense intended to the bajillion SoBo fans out there!

    I agree on the comparisons between LLWD & WYWFM in terms of initial sales. LLWD was obviously the first single off the album, and released ahead of the drop by several weeks, so it had a burst of sales in the beginning as Idol fans were buying it. In Adam’s case, FYE got the initial fanbase flurry of sales – obviously the plan was it would grow on radio and continue to sell. For a myriad of reasons, that didn’t happen, so WYWFM was released instead while FYE has been left to wither on the vine. Probably the only people buying it now are the ones seeing the video; I don’t know what else would drive those sales.

    Kirsten’s comparison at similar AI points is probably the most logical, although as she qualified it, it will still be not quite a fair comparison since in LLWD’s case, the album had not dropped, and in WYWFM’s case, the album had. And, Christmas songs are out there now. Hard to compare their paths until after the holidays, I suppose. Blah blah blah.

  45. Sorry, can’t edit, figured it out!

    Good. Just noting that the first number is the weeks on that chart, although from the way David Cook numbers are displayed, on reentry after the album has fallen out of the chart the number is reset to 1.

    BTW, anyone know what exactly RTD stands for? I think RTD doesn’t count sales gained once an album has fallen out of BB200, is that true or have I got it mixed up with something else?

  46. What? This is the second week that we will get numbers for FYE the album.

    That’s exactly what I said.

    I don’t know how many it sold the week before that, but you can look it up on idol chatter,

    No, there aren’t any lw numbers. The chart has the word NEW where “last week’s” numbers usually go. There has been two weeks of sales.

  47. Single downloads for Idols are up at IdolChatter:

    Kelly Clarkson, Already Gone (37,000, -30 percent, 847,000 total)
    Carrie Underwood, Cowboy Casanova (35,000, -33 percent, 644,000)
    Kris Allen, Live Like We’re Dying (28,000 -12 percent, 214,000)
    Daughtry, LifeAfter You (17,000, +44 percent, 61,000)
    Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment (14,000, -63 percent, 117,000)
    Adam Lambert, Whataya Want From Me (9,000 -16 percent, 21,000)
    Jordin Sparks, Battlefield [Main Version] (7,000, -41 percent, 1.178 million)
    Carrie Underwood, Hark! The Herald Angels Sing (7,000, +84 percent, 10,000)
    Allison Iraheta, Scars (6,000, debut, 6,000)

  48. I’m confused. Adam’s original single (the one that was released separately from the album) was FYE. And then WWFM was pushed as the ‘new’  single, even though there doesn’t appear to be a single release on iTunes for that song, just the album version. Is there any reason radio stations can’t add David Cook’s ‘Lie’  since it sold so well this week? I mean right now it’s higher on the iTunes chart (187) than WWFM (192). I guess I just don’t understand this stuff!

    I think it’s a little different at this point for Adam because his album just came out or actually the single switcheroo happened even before his album came out. IMO what happened is RCA decided FYE was the single, radio wasn’t that into it. Then like is usual for labels when a record is coming out, RCA previewed at least 1 more song if not more to radio (including WWFM). Since radio was interested in a new Adam Lambert song but not FYE, WWFM started picking up on its own. RCA read the tea leaves and even though they’d plunked $$ down for the FYE video, it was obvious radio preferred WWFM. What radio wants, radio gets. It’s a similar thing with Danny except I don’t think he has the same interest from country radio that Adam does from pop radio – RCA Nashville had chosen a single (It’s Only), radio didn’t react to it, they liked My Best Days better, so the label went with that. Lucky for Danny they hadn’t already put in the dough for a video for It’s Only.

    For David I think he’d get more interest from radio for the lead single of a new album than another single off his album that’s been out for more than a year. There’s nothing stopping radio from picking up Lies but I don’t think the media buzz is there right now for him which is probably why it’s not going to happen organically for David until he’s set with a new album.

    Billboard sales article is out: link

    Carrie made it to #6 with 81k sold! Yay!

  49. Is there any reason radio stations can’t add David Cook’s ‘Lie’  since it sold so well this week?

    Well, they *can* add whatever they want. But I think they kind of want the record labels to keep groveling to them! So by and large they don’t add stuff that a record label hasn’t come to them begging them to add.

    I think they probably believe that if they don’t keep the labels groveling like this, the labels won’t feel as much compunction to put out music that the radio stations believe brings in their listeners and thus sells advertising (making money for the station.)

    I would think that probably stops them from adding songs the labels haven’t specifically pushed, even if there’s evidence that the song itself might bring in some listeners. (except for the weird exception of WWFM by Adam, which I guess some added because they wanted to signal to RCA that they were willing to play him, just not on a song like FYE). In the long run, playing only songs that record labels have specifically groveled and horse-traded to get played keeps the labels more under the command of the radio stations, I expect.

    And that will probably only become more important to them in the near future, as radio kind of fades as a venue for people to get new music. They really really will want to hold on to as much power as they possibly can — and right now they only get the power by making the music companies grovel for every song they want played.

  50. BootStar, radio is free to play Lie organically, but the label has not declared it a single and is doing nothing for it. I would love to see it picked up organically, but it probably will not be due to the crush of promoted releases. In the case of WWFM and FYE, both were promoted as actual singles. I think even TFM went for adds and was promoted a bit.

  51. Single sales are a great way to measure how someone is doing with the general public outside of the Idol bubble. Very few people hear one song from a new artist and immediately go out and buy the album. That usually happens with the 2nd or 3rd song they hear from them. The first single sells itself. Kris has proven with LLWD that he can attract new fans. The sales for LLWD these past few weeks have been amazing when you consider the amount of radioplay the song is getting.

    Also, to anyone comparing LLWD and WWFM, I dont think LLWD ever dropped to as low as 190 on iTunes. WWFM doesnt have the same kind of radioplay right now as LLWD, but it sure is getting a much better headstart on radio then LLWD. Stations are playing it and people are hearing it.

  52. Billboard sales article is out: link

    Carrie made it to #6 with 81k sold! Yay!

    Woot, #6! Not bad, not bad at all :) 5 weeks in the top 10 now.

    And HDD underestimated her numbers yet again.

  53. And then WWFM was pushed as the ‘new’  single, even though there doesn’t appear to be a single release on iTunes for that song, just the album version.

    Generally, only lead-off singles get a “single release on iTunes”, i.e. a separate track. Since you can always buy individual album tracks on iTunes once an album is released, there usually won’t be a separate single release for follow-up singles. There was never a “single” version for CBTM, people just bought the album track.

    I may be wrong, but I think if radio stations really wanted to play Lie, they could just obtain a copy on their own and play it, since the whole album is out. That’s how some stations spin a handful of album tracks after they’re released, I think. But stations very rarely play songs unless the label sends it to them. What I described usually happens when a fanboy DJ gets really excited after hearing his favorite band’s new album, not because he heard an album track on TV from a year-old CD. Permanent was never sent to radio, despite the huge response after the Idol finale, so it makes sense that you won’t hear it on radio. DJs/PDs may love it, but rarely do they love non-singles enough to go rogue and play something that they weren’t sent. I actually hear Permanent in malls and random places all the time, but never on radio, so I guess some muzak company must have bought it for that use. I guess something similar could happen for Lie if the right person in the right circles heard and responded to Lie and decided to purchase its rights for something outside of radio. Sorry, random aside.

  54. Remidner:

    Could we please stay away from the whole “You dissed my Idol Now I’m going to diss YOURS” posts? If you disagree, state your case. Simply posting something negative about the OPS favorite transports the discussion to the level of the grade school playground.

  55. I don’t get why a comparison needs to be made, but if we need to do so, it’s better to do it when we have more information. Why don’t we wait a few months before we start doing this.

    Because this is the numbers thread and that’s what we do here? Please be careful not to become defensive. Don’t tell posters what to do, please. It starts arguments.

  56. I dont think LLWD ever dropped to as low as 190 on iTunes.

    I think it did. I remember Kirsten saying it might drop out of the top 200.
    Plus, there are a gazillion Christmas songs in the top 200 right now. It’s kind of interesting watching the charts for the first time. I had no idea how much Christmas songs and albums sold until this year.

  57. Question, how de we get the info about International Sales? Those numbers are for US only right?

  58. Ahaha!!!! ‘I Want a Hippopotamus For Christmas’ is one of my favorite non-traditional Christmas songs. That and ‘Santa Baby’. Now I need to search all my backup hardrives for it to put on this year’s mix.

  59. I doubt that anyone will see Adam as an album seller, if he doesn’t have successful singles that lead to people buying the album. If he continues to see the drops like this week, whiles still not having a song on radio (which won’t happen), he’s obviously not going to sell any albums, or reach beyond his AI fanbase.

    Why would we not see Adam as an Album seller? He has sold 250K albums in two weeks. If he is not an “album seller”, what does that mean for those idols this season who have sold far less in one or two weeks? They are still selling albums.
    I wonder if Christmas sales will help in the next couple of weeks.

  60. I think it did. I remember Kirsten saying it might drop out of the top 200.
    Plus, there are a gazillion Christmas songs in the top 200 right now. It’s kind of interesting watching the charts for the first time. I had no idea how much Christmas songs and albums sold until this year.

    I am with you about the charts. I never had a clue how much Christmas songs and albums infiltrates the charts during this time of year. I also never knew about the freeze coming around Christmas for Adds. Beside getting information about that Cheesy Show and the contestants from/on it I also have gotten a huge amount of information on how the music industry works. Very educational. Like a cherry on top of a delicious Cheese cake. :-)

  61. Also, to anyone comparing LLWD and WWFM, I dont think LLWD ever dropped to as low as 190 on iTunes.

    No. WWFM has really languished.

    But *everything* on the Itunes list is being pushed way down right now because of the number of Christmas songs that are now on the list. And the number of Christmas songs that push you lower gets almost exponentially higher the lower you are on the list. …. So 190 right now is probably more like 160 or 170 (or even a smidge higher) from a month ago. And I do think Kris was down at least into the high 140s at one point, although I could be wrong about that. So, yeah, he’s probably sunk somewhat lower than LLWD ever did, but not as much lower as the number makes it seem, because of Noel-tunes.

    I do think that having FYE around has somewhat compromised sales for WWFM, as well, since people had an option of which to buy and, frankly, I think that FYE is somewhat more likely to appeal to the instant-Adam-fan type of person than WWFM, at least initially. As an Adam fan, I can see myself instantly snatching up FYE and thinking of WWFM — Well, nice song, but it doesn’t distinctly seem *Adam* to me…And thus being less enamored of buying it right away.

  62. I think it did. I remember Kirsten saying it might drop out of the top 200.

    LLWD never dropped out of the itunes 200, the closest it got to the bottom was the 160’s.

  63. Question, how de we get the info about International Sales? Those numbers are for US only right?

    Basically, we don’t get numbers for international sales. … Like, ever.

    The labels count them up eventually, and there *are* sales charts for every country. But I don’t think a lot of people are in the business of getting access to all those charts and then adding up all those numbers.

  64. Gemini1, I called it weeks ago that AL was an album seller and was laughed at for it. Once the initial singles from AI washed through for the first 2 or 3 weeks, he was always above Kris on albums, and Kris was always above him on singles. My questions is this – if AL’s album is vastly outselling his singles (which it is) and we say he’s not an album seller, than what kind of single seller does that make him? Just sayin’.

  65. For a myriad of reasons, that didn’t happen, so WYWFM was released instead while FYE has been left to wither on the vine. Probably the only people buying it now are the ones seeing the video; I don’t know what else would drive those sales.

    Actually, while the video may be driving some sales (esp now that it’s getting good play), I think a big factor in the continuing sales of FYE the single is tweens and teens word of mouth and youtube. A few of them seem to have taken a bit of a fancy to it and they’ve made quite a few really bad fan vids of them lip syncing and/or dancing to it….sames as they’ve done to LLWD.

  66. If Kris continues to see the drops and have low numbers for album sales, while having a song on radio, he’s obviously not going to sell many albums, or reach beyond his AI fanbase.

    The thing is that Kris seems to be moving beyond his fanbase already as can be seen in the recent overall upswing in the sales of LLWD, at least IMO it seems this way.

  67. gemini1

    LLWD has never come close to falling out of the top 200 on iTunes. I believe the lowest it ever got was #163.

  68. So apparently 37k of AL’s sales of the album were digital in the week of the big Amazon sale, going from next to nothing. Sounds like it counted.

  69. Are Allison’s numbers low? Am I wrong in thinking that? I have yet to hear FIBOU. Is it getting any adds?

    WWFM is the one being pushed on the radio and received I think 20 adds this week? It’s the one Z-100 is playing and is promoting like crazy, it’s the one Open House Party plays, it’s the one the band it playing. I think FYE is going to stop being played on a regular basis soon (and I think WWFM is far more radio friendly). LLWD is doing well, isn’t it?

  70. LLWD has never come close to falling out of the top 200 on iTunes. I believe the lowest it ever got was #163.

    Well, if this is true, then Adam has currently fallen about as far as or just a smidge lower than, Kris’s lowest point, given the number of Christmas songs that are filling up the chart right now….. So, in the never-ending horse race, i guess that they are on a par right now. …. And if Adam continues to build radio play (he’s on something under a third of the number of stations that Kris is on currently, right?) while WWFM sinks lower, then I think we can conclude that WWFM isn’t a song that’ll sell as well as LLWD. … Right at this moment, though, I’d say we can’t conclude much of anything, except that LLWD has, indeed, proven to be a good seller.

  71. Bringing over from headlines thread:

    Current iTunes chart positions

    overall albums (all)

    #21 Play On
    #25 Christmas from the Heart
    #120 Just Like You (deluxe)
    #123 FYE (deluxe)
    #136 Kris Allen
    #145 Leave This Town (Bonus Track version)
    #171 FYE
    #194 David Cook
    #232 Just Like You
    #339 Leave This Town
    #363 All I Ever Wanted (deluxe)
    #386 Carnival Ride
    #524 Some Hearts
    #529 Daughtry
    #825 Kris Allen (deluxe)
    #879 Breakaway

    overall songs (Top 500 only)

    #30 Already Gone
    #32 Live Like We’re Dying
    #35 Cowboy Casanova
    #144 FYE
    #152 What Can I Say
    #187 Lie
    #190 WWFM
    #207 Hark! The Herald Angels Sing (Carrie)
    #221 Temporary Home
    #404 Before He Cheats
    #498 Mama’s Song

    [note: none of Allison’s or David A.’s songs are in Top 500; Michael’s “You Are” is at #652]

  72. No, Suebrody, her numbers are quite low. I’m confused that Scar is showing numbers and FIBOU is not. On iTunes, FIBOU was, I thought, highest among her songs.

  73. Gemini1, I called it weeks ago that AL was an album seller and was laughed at for it. Once the initial singles from AI washed through for the first 2 or 3 weeks, he was always above Kris on albums, and Kris was always above him on singles. My questions is this ‘“ if AL’s album is vastly outselling his singles (which it is) and we say he’s not an album seller, than what kind of single seller does that make him? Just sayin’.

    Given the big drop for FYE, bigger than any other song in the top 200 this week. Wouldn’t it be better to assume that the first week sales were due to Adam’s hardcore idol fans? It seems to me that it’s a little too early to call Adam an albums seller. If he can’t get people interested in his singles, and we haven’t seen evidence that he can’t, how is he going to sell more than the 250,000 albums that he has over the past two weeks? While that is nice for a two week total, without people getting interested in the singles, it’s not going to go any higher than that.

    With Kris, the same is also true. his album sales were mostly do to hardcore AI fans, and they have stabalized over the past two weeks. Whether or not he sales more albums will depend on how people connect with his singles.

  74. WWFM is the one being pushed on the radio and received I think 20 adds this week? It’s the one Z-100 is playing and is promoting like crazy, it’s the one Open House Party plays, it’s the one the band it playing. I think FYE is going to stop being played on a regular basis soon (and I think WWFM is far more radio friendly). LLWD is doing well, isn’t it?

    WWFM had 13 adds this week, 9 in top 40 and the rest with HAC. It has never had 20 adds in a week. currently, it is on 50 monitored stations in the US. And stations have pretty much stopped playing FYE. it was only played 7 times this week.

  75. Thanks for all the explanations about singles, “official” singles, adds, and the push from the labels to get *anything* played. Now I know why I rarely listen to commercial radio!

    And am I a bad Cook fan that I wish the PDs and DJs told David’s peeps that they hated CBTM so we could have gotten Lie officially added instead? ;-)

  76. Basically, we don’t get numbers for international sales. ‘ ¦ Like, ever.

    The labels count them up eventually, and there *are* sales charts for every country. But I don’t think a lot of people are in the business of getting access to all those charts and then adding up all those numbers.

    Thanks lucy :)

  77. Babybelle, I don’t think my post contradicted yours at all. AL can be an album seller and still have those sales coming from his Idol base. It’s just his Idol base seems to go for the albums over the singles. Witness the far greater album sales than single sales. I agree he has to have some airplay to continue to sell albums, or else his appearances on TV are going to have to have a bigger affect than they have had to date. He is clearly dropping in all areas. I guess my point was an isolated one – simply stating that he has sold way more albums than singles so far. I made no prediction about the future. Even with his big drop in album sales, he still sold more albums than singles.

  78. babybelle32
    12/09/2009 at 12:07 pm
    I think it did. I remember Kirsten saying it might drop out of the top 200.

    LLWD never dropped out of the itunes 200, the closest it got to the bottom was the 160’s.

    And I’m sure that was because of Noel-tunes, right? :wink:

  79. WWFM still isn’t getting a ton of spins — it got 109 total yesterday and is at 62 so far today. It helps the AI that Z-100 is playing the crap out of it (13 spins since start of yesterday), but KIIS-FM in L.A. is actually playing it less this week than it did last week, which isn’t good.

    FIBOU has gotten 17 spins so far today; yesterday it got 17 spins as well

    LLWD has gotten 236 spins so far today; yesterday it received 479 spins; KBIG in L.A. has played it 5 times in these 2 days, which is encouraging since they just officially added it

  80. WWFM still isn’t getting a ton of spins ‘” it got 109 total yesterday and is at 62 so far today. It helps the AI that Z-100 is playing the crap out of it (13 spins since start of yesterday), but KIIS-FM in L.A. is actually playing it less this week than it did last week, which isn’t good.

    Honestly, I think they should have gone with FYE. …. The fact that it’s still selling more on Itunes than WWFM, with virtually no radio play for quite some time now suggests to me that that’s the song people were more likely to catch onto, of the two. … I like WWFM, but I don’t see anything much distinctively Adam about it. Plus, I think it’s kind of an earnest-Ernie (more like Bert, actually, I guess) kind of song that can do *okay* at pop radio, but not particularly brilliantly. … I would have preferred that they go with something shallow, dancy, sex-tinged, and kind of outrageous. That seems like the kind of pop song that can go into the top 10 at top 40 more easily right now, to me. But Z100 and KIIS LA had different ideas, obviously.

  81. And it is still early in the week of course, but right now the projected radio charts on mediabase for next week show LLWD moving up 1 spot on Top 40 (to #32) and 2 spots on Hot AC (to #16), while projecting WWFM to move up 8 spots on Top 40 (to #42). Hopefully these projections will hold up (or improve) as the week progresses.

  82. And am I a bad Cook fan that I wish the PDs and DJs told David’s peeps that they hated CBTM

    Well, I don’t think they hated it. The HAC DJs and PDs didn’t seem to hate it at all, considering how far the song went there. And on CHR, unfortunately many stations didn’t touch it, but those who picked the song played it a lot. CBTM stayed in the 40s/50s for a really long time. The CHR stations that played it were obviously getting good feedback because they weren’t dropping the song.

    Anyway, on another set of numbers, Itunes has their “year in rewind” up and idol songs and albums have made their lists.

    100 Top Selling albums:

    13 – All I Ever Wanted – Kelly Clarkson
    17 – Leave This Town – Daughtry
    41 – Play On – Carrie Underwood
    55 – David Cook – David Cook
    65 – Glee Vol 1

    100 Top Selling songs:

    14 – My Life Would Suck Without You – Kelly Clarkson
    53 – Battlefield – Jordin Sparks
    68 – No Surprise – Daughtry
    80 – Best Days Of Your Life – Kellie Pickler

  83. Kris’ album sales stabilized? Really? I wouldn’t call a 59% drop, then the drop he had this week and slipping from 11 to 47 stable. For all Jordin’s early sales gets knocked, she definitely was in better shape than Kris. By her 3rd week she had already sold a good 225,000. He’s doing well with LLWD and he can end up being a huge single seller but right now his album sales aren’t good. Being Jive’s 2nd highest debut for the year doesn’t make see his numbers any better. I don’t think Adam’s numbers are amazing but IMO he’s showing to be more of an album seller especially considering he doesn’t have a huge hit.

  84. I would have preferred that they go with something shallow, dancy, sex-tinged, and kind of outrageous. That seems like the kind of pop song that can go into the top 10 at top 40 more easily right now, to me.

    I’m not a fan of FYE, but I will say that’s pretty different from a lot of what gets played on Top 40. WWFM is more in-sync with most current pop hits, but not really unique. To go with the song that may be rejected without a second hear but is actually different or the vanilla soft-serve song that will at least get some play? It’s not an easy call.

  85. WWFM needs its own cover art and a video. That will help with the single Kris is probably behind Jordin in sales even with the big % drop in album sales over two years factored in. However, he hasn’t had the grad A promo.

    Adam’s album sales are iffy. We’ll see if the album has legs or if the Idol base are exhausted. But it appears that radio is moving very quickly with WWFM so it could end up a big hit.

    I just find it depressing that early sales were so crappy for all the S8 singles. It makes me think the power of the show to move producrt without radio is really waning.

  86. And it is still early in the week of course, but right now the projected radio charts on mediabase for next week show LLWD moving up 1 spot on Top 40 (to #32) and 2 spots on Hot AC (to #16), while projecting WWFM to move up 8 spots on Top 40 (to #42). Hopefully these projections will hold up (or improve) as the week progresses

    Wow, if those do hold up, that’s excellent. That should put them both in pretty good shape for after the holidays. Kris, especially, of course.

    Nice jump for Adam, though. Hope it works out.

  87. All I know is that if we were to say album sales at 10 bucks and singles at a dollar then Adam has made 2.5 million bucks as opposed to Kris’ 1.5 million bucks on their current singles and album. I’d rather have the extra million bucks then the bragging rights that I sold a few more singles. YMMV.

  88. I’m not a fan of FYE, but I will say that’s pretty different from a lot of what gets played on Top 40. WWFM is more in-sync with most current pop hits, but not really unique. To go with the song that may be rejected without a second hear but is actually different or the vanilla soft-serve song that will at least get some play? It’s not an easy call.

    I agree. To me, FYE was a lot riskier but had a potentially much bigger payoff. WWFM I think is sure to do pretty well, but I have a hard time seeing it do extremely well….. That being the case, WWFM probably is the smarter choice. You may not win big with it but you’re unlikely to lose totally with it, either…. I’m sort of the “go big or go home” mindset, myself. But record labels aren’t, usually, and understandably — although what I find a little strange here is that it’s possible this choice was made by radio stations rather than RCA. (although the jury’s out on that, obviously.)

  89. Brian has the album sales up in Idol Chatter, and his take on Adam is very similar to what has been discussed here.

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2009/12/albums-sales-adam-lambert-plummets-carrie-underwood-stays-top-10/1

    Speaking of sales drops, let’s talk about Adam Lambert’s For Your Entertainment for a minute. Its weekly sales plummeted 74 percent, from nearly 200,000 its debut week to just shy of 51,000 in its second. If you’re an Adam Lambert partisan, you can try to spin it all you want, but that’s just bad. Did the Black Friday shopping rush factor? Maybe, but SoundScan’s overall Top 200 sales were off only 14 percent for the week — Adam’s were down 74. For Your Entertainment had the biggest percentage drop of any album in the Top 200 (only one other album was off 70 percent). From a pure numbers standpoint, it came up more than 147,000 units short of its first week, a bigger shortfall than any other album on the chart save Boyle’s — which still outsold Adam by a margin of more than 10-to-1. His digital sales were also down last week.

    Adam still hasn’t found a foothold at radio, which he’ll need if he wants to have solid week-to-week sales going forward after the holiday sales season. One of the major television networks clearly has doubts about his value to them, and the other networks will find amusement in booking him so they can thumb their noses at ABC for only so long. If he doesn’t deliver a hit, those big network-TV opportunities (save maybe for Fox) will start drying up soon. In other words, the days of Adam Lambert as a perceived phenom are quickly drawing to a close. He needs a hit, and he needs it quickly.

    Really? Because this sounds a lot worse to me that what was discussed here. It’s kinda crazy too. I’m not an Adam fan but I do like him as a person (just don’t care for his music), and I’m shocked.

  90. WWFM had 13 adds this week, 9 in top 40 and the rest with HAC. It has never had 20 adds in a week.

    I’m pretty sure I counted well over 20 last week with my own fingers….and people were reporting over 20 this week as well….not trying to start a war over adds — its easy enough to check

  91. Ugh, album sale were only off 14% from Black Friday. I thought the percentages looked good on HDD. That’s not really very good news for Adam’s album sales. Double, ugh because Idol Chatter has access to the whole BB 200 and Adam’s album has the biggest drop on there.

    Luckly for Adam, radio is liking WWFM. Otherwise we’d have a potential Taylor Hicks situtaion. Wow.

  92. Basically, we don’t get numbers for international sales. ‘ ¦ Like, ever.

    The labels count them up eventually, and there *are* sales charts for every country. But I don’t think a lot of people are in the business of getting access to all those charts and then adding up all those numbers.

    There are a few websites that do international sales, a couple here –
    http://www.worldwidealbums.net/
    http://www.mediatraffic.de/previous2.htm (click on the week number to find out the sales that week, for example here it gives 210,000 for Adam Lambert for last week sales.)

    Basically they just added up the numbers from charts from different countries. Problem is that the numbers don’t necessarily tally well, and some people have also complained about the accuracy of some countries’ charts (France for instance). Just as examples, from World Wide Album chart (estimated sales range, last number gives maximum estimate)-
    Kelly Clarkson My December 1512000 1570080
    Jordin Sparks Jordin Sparks 1404500 1447460

    But from wiki, it says Kelly Clarkson’s My December sold over 2 million, while Jordin Sparks sold 1.5 million. So who is right?

    The problem with wiki is that the numbers are often unsourced, so we can never be sure where those numbers come from or if they are reliable. However I am pretty sure that the numbers should be higher than the World Wide Album estimates because it relies on numbers published from a limited countries and only add from the numbers for those albums while they are still on the chart.

    Something I noticed from the digital chart I posted earlier –
    129 19RE LAMBERT*ADAM SEASON 8 FAVORITE PERFORMANCES 37,514

    Kris Allen’s Season Favorite Performances however is not the the chart, since the lowest number on that chart is 24,824, so he would be selling fewer than that (wiki incidentally gives a number of 25k+, again unsourced). From that we can estimate Kris Idol fan base would be at most 2/3 of Adam’s, and likely smaller than that given the extra interest that came with winning AI. Reasonable estimate? I think the much better sales of Adam’s debut album might be due to the extraordinary publicity given to him, the Black Friday week, as well as the AMA controversy.

  93. Well, I don’t think they hated it. The HAC DJs and PDs didn’t seem to hate it at all, considering how far the song went there. And on CHR, unfortunately many stations didn’t touch it, but those who picked the song played it a lot. CBTM stayed in the 40s/50s for a really long time. The CHR stations that played it were obviously getting good feedback because they weren’t dropping the song.

    Oh, no, leome, I didn’t mean that *they* hated it, just that I kinda *wished* they’d hated it because I didn’t think it was a good choice, but for all I know, it was the best “next single” on the album. It just seems like its medicore performance kept it from being quickly replaced, but it doesn’t look like that strategy is working all that well for Adam, so there’s no way to know for sure.

    But, NGL, I wish David got the kid-glove handling that Adam has. I mean, what do I know? But it sure looks like David has made a lot more money for RCA than Adam has, and yet Adam has had as many singles pushed from his album as David has.

  94. WWFM had 13 adds this week, 9 in top 40 and the rest with HAC. It has never had 20 adds in a week.

    I’m pretty sure I counted well over 20 last week with my own fingers’ ¦.and people were reporting over 20 this week as well’ ¦.not trying to start a war over adds ‘” its easy enough to check

    There were 18 this week, but I think that the poster (sorry…forgot who) isn’t counting Canada, which contributed 5 of those 13. ….

    Similarly, I *think* that last week there were maybe 22 total or something, but there were Canadian adds in there, so I think a lot of people don’t count those as having any value in the U.S….. some validity to that, I guess.

  95. But it sure looks like David has made a lot more money for RCA than Adam has, and yet Adam has had as many singles pushed from his album as David has.

    Well David’s album has been out a whole year while Adam’s has been out two weeks, so it makes sense that David has made more $$ for RCA. C’mon, now.

    As for singles, I do wish RCA hadn’t played it so safe with CBTM (basically Always Be My Baby Redux + more suck/snore) and released Declaration or Lie as the second single.

  96. But it sure looks like David has made a lot more money for RCA than Adam has, and yet Adam has had as many singles pushed from his album as David has.

    Well David’s album has been out a whole year while Adam’s has been out two weeks, so it makes sense that David has made more $$ for RCA. C’mon, now.

    Well, Adam has had one single sorta kinda pushed and one actually pushed. Plus, he’s absolutely totally in the dance-y pop genre, which, whatever you think of him personally as an album or a singles guy, is very very much a singles genre.

    David’s genre isn’t as singles driven, seems to me.

  97. So according to Idol Chatter, FYE is already half gold? That is good enough to make me happy (RCA may not be so, who knows) :D

    Hope the singles, FYE and WWFM, will bring legs to the album sales in the future.

  98. I agree with whoever said WWFM needs it’s own cover art etc. I assume they wanted to get radio play first. Is that how they did LLWD?

  99. Well, Adam has had one single sorta kinda pushed and one actually pushed.

    Well, I think FYE was absolutely pushed. It’s just that radio pushed back.

  100. To me, FYE was a lot riskier but had a potentially much bigger payoff. WWFM I think is sure to do pretty well, but I have a hard time seeing it do extremely well’ ¦.. That being the case, WWFM probably is the smarter choice.

    Really? I liked FYE at first listen and thought it fit right in with Top 40, even though it was all that unique. But radio’s a crapshoot, and they didn’t like it, so I guess it makes sense RCA is trying another. I’m just still kind trying to figure this out. Was FYE doing that badly to warrant the quick/expensive post-video switcheroo though? I remember Light On didn’t really catch until after DC’s album release, which was like a month out. And didn’t Jive show a lot of patience on Jordin’s Tattoo before it caught on? I wasn’t paying close attention, though, was radio completely ignoring FYE, despite the Seacrest KISS-FM debut?

    I dunno though, I kinda liked FYE, but don’t like WWFM at all and can see it doing mediocre, but definitely can’t see it doing that marvelously.

  101. BeckyMD
    12/09/2009 at 1:09 pm
    So according to Idol Chatter, FYE is already half gold? That is good enough to make me happy (RCA may not be so, who knows)

    I guess it’s how you look at it. If you see the glass as half full, good. Just beware…the ice is melting. JK! I just had to grin at your perspective. I think Adam is playing it a little safer now, and that should turn things around for him. I don’t want any of the idols to fail…it would be bad for my favorite show ever!

  102. Hopefully the fact that FYE music video is now getting airplay on MTV and maybe on VH1 countdown, will help in his sales. Hopefully, that is. I never would have predicted this for him. I really hope something happens over the next few months to help with sales. I happen to love his music and him as a person. All of this really makes me sad for Adam. Now I’m going to go sulk for awhile……

  103. Sales from Idol Chatter:

    Carrie Underwood, Play On (81,000, -35 percent, 737,000 total/3,000 digital, -39 percent, 97,000 digital total)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Music! 32 (68,000, -10 percent, 372,000)
    Glee, Glee: The Music-Vol. 1 (54,000, -20 percent, 342,000)
    Adam Lambert, For Your Entertainment (51,000, -74 percent, 250,000/4,000, -88 percent, 42,000 digital total)
    David Archuleta, Christmas From the Heart (34,000, +57 percent, 122,000/5,000 digital +87 percent, 16,000 digital total)
    Allison Iraheta, Just Like You (32,000, debut, 11 32,000/7,000 digital)
    Rod Stewart, Soulbook (30,000, +23 percent, 224,000/12,000 digital total)
    Kris Allen, Live Like We’re Dying (22,000, -31 percent, 135,000/2,000 digital, -55 percent, 29,000 digital total)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call a Country Christmas (20,000, +14 percent, 69,000/2,000 digital, +36 percent, 4,000 digital total)
    Various, Wow Hits 2010 (19,000, -9 percent)
    Daughtry, Leave This Town (17,000, -5 percent, 784,000/1,000 digital, -31 percent, 139,000)
    Various, Vol. 7-A Very Special Christmas (10,000, +44 percent, 18,000/3,000 digital, +11 percent, 6,000 digital total)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Music! 31 (10,000, +1 percent, 791,000)
    Soundtrack, Hannah Montana 3 (9,000, -9 percent, 513,000)
    Kelly Clarkson, All I Ever Wanted (9,000, -19 percent, 774,000/1,000 digital, -60 percent, 166,000)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Country Vol. 2 (8,000, +10 percent, 172,000)
    Kellie Pickler, Kellie Pickler (4,000, +4 percent, 347,000)
    Various, Now That’s What I Call Country (2,000, -2 percent, 393,000)

  104. I think the thing with WWFM is that it is so obviously a Pink song. If you’re a radio station, why play a Pink song that she didn’t release, when you have plenty of other Pink songs to play? It’ll probably end up doing OK, but I can’t see it really standing out because of that.

    Same situation as FIBOU: why play a Miley-clone song when you have Party in the USA?

  105. To me, FYE was a lot riskier but had a potentially much bigger payoff. WWFM I think is sure to do pretty well, but I have a hard time seeing it do extremely well’ ¦.. That being the case, WWFM probably is the smarter choice.

    Really? I liked FYE at first listen and thought it fit right in with Top 40, even though it was all that unique. But radio’s a crapshoot, and they didn’t like it, so I guess it makes sense RCA is trying another. I’m just still kind trying to figure this out. Was FYE doing that badly to warrant the quick/expensive post-video switcheroo though? I remember Light On didn’t really catch until after DC’s album release, which was like a month out. And didn’t Jive show a lot of patience on Jordin’s Tattoo before it caught on? I wasn’t paying close attention, though, was radio completely ignoring FYE, despite the Seacrest KISS-FM debut?

    I dunno though, I kinda liked FYE, but don’t like WWFM at all and can see it doing mediocre, but definitely can’t see it doing that marvelously.

    Well, since I think we’re saying pretty much the exact same thing …. I agree. I don’t know either.

    I do think that FYE sounded like some stuff that does very well on Top 40 currently — but *not* with a guy singing it. ….

    And I do think that one of the things they’re pretty consistent about is assigning certain types of songs to people of one or the other gender. A woman isn’t going to get her rap played on Top 40, by and large, for example.

    And I think that right now it’s probably a bit of a crap shoot for a guy to get his glitzy, dance-y sex pop played on Top 40, as well….

    At least that’s the only reason I can really think of for a handful of *huge* radio stations to simply reject FYE out of hand then start playing WWFM (which I agree with you is, to me, kind of a boring song) all of their own accord. That’s a pretty unusual move. Usually if they reject a single, they don’t pick another single off the same album and start playing it…. They just don’t play anything from that album and wait for the label to make another choice.

  106. wow- people were slamming Brian in his column. He’s giving his thoughts – and people think he’s anti-Adam. I do think Kris’s numbers have stabilized and people are on that site calling Kris a flop and claiming he has great promotion, yadda, yadda, yadda. Compared to Adam, Kris’s promotion, IMO, is a drop in the bucket and the label really screwed up by releasing FYE. The fact that his video is doing well on MTV/VH-1 is not enough. He needs radio as well and I still maintin he is lagging behind there.

    Of course, Allison is in way more trouble because radio doesn’t seem to be picking her up and she isn’t doing well on album sales either. FIBOU might actually be more of a disaster as a first single then FYE was for Adam.

    LLWD seems to be chugging along nicely, but where are the album sales?

  107. FYE was simply the wrong single to push. It probably got a bad response from radio audiences and bad callout scores, so radio wouldn’t play it. At that point RCA had to scramble and probably discussed with Z100 and a few other big stations what they would play, and WWFM was then chosen. It’s no accident that the two big market stations were first to add it. The good news is that as it usually happens, smaller market stations followed suit and the song is taking off really well. Now all it has to do is translate into sales for both the single and album. The next few television performances will be really telling about Adam’s future sales potential. If we see good sales bumps after his major performances in the coming weeks, it’s a good sign. So when he performs on SYTYCD, I expect a large iTunes leap for the song. If that doesn’t happen, then things are not going well.

  108. FYE doesn’t work when sung by a man.

    Well, it works *fine* for me when sung by a man, lol.

    But I agree with you that, based on what we’re used to hearing on radio, and probably also based on what the widest swath of listeners may want to hear, it doesn’t work when sung by a man.

    I’m not really convinced that that would be as true of the younger generation though. Although I concede that it might be.

    WWFM is a nice song. But frankly it bores the crap out of me, compared to most of the other songs on his album, including FYE.

    I also wonder what folks make out of the fact that, with pretty much no play going on at this point, FYE is *still* selling more on Itunes than WWFM (and, granted, neither is selling well …. But with the lack of promotion for it recently, I would expect FYE to be ranking in the 500s by now. So it must be connecting with at least a few people … and it must be kind of memorable or something, for that.)

  109. Well maybe it’s really RCA that is pushing WWFM instead of FYE after FYE didn’t do all that well. I think they should push both and try to gain visibility for the FYE video. FYE is still a good dance track. I can’t see why the public wouldn’t dig it for club music unless they really hate Adam Lambert (which we know a swath of the public does.)

  110. I can’t see why the public wouldn’t dig it for club music unless they really hate Adam Lambert (which we know a swath of the public does.)

    Some friends of mine (who still frequent clubs)say it is being played a LOT at both gay and straight dance clubs in NYC

  111. FYE doesn’t work when sung by a man.

    Well… I’d guess it doesn’t exactly work when sung by a woman, either. Even considering the “harder” side of sex, it’s still lyrically a very masculine song.

  112. Anyone knows the total sale number of Jordin’s sophomore i.e., the latest albums so far? Or where can I find it?

  113. But it sure looks like David has made a lot more money for RCA than Adam has, and yet Adam has had as many singles pushed from his album as David has.

    But radio singles are not a reward, they are a means to an end. Fans seem to think that they or the artist they love are “owed” a certain number of singles. But a label is going to spend the money to release and promote the absolute minimum number of singles that gives them the ROI they’re looking for. RCA didn’t need to release more singles for David Cook because the ones they did release have lived long and healthy lives on multiple formats, and supported a lot of album sales.

    Adam is in a much different situation right now – despite promising signs that they may have finally gotten it right with WWFM, it seems to have taken several attempts to get the traction they’re looking for. Despite protestations that none of the previous releases were “real” singles, nothing in the way Adam’s Idol tracks, No Boundries, TfM, or FYE performed would indicate yet that radio is convinced about Adam. Right now RCA seems willing to invest the money required to find the right formula, which is awesome for Adam. But it has little to do with David Cook, aside perhaps for making his profit margin look a little healthier at the moment.

  114. Well David’s album has been out a whole year while Adam’s has been out two weeks, so it makes sense that David has made more $$ for RCA. C’mon, now.

    Yeah, but my point is that Adam has had as many singles pushed for radio adds in a month as David has had after a year. David also had much better sales out of the gate than Adam too, so I’m not sure why the label has done everything on the cheap with DC (in comparison with AL).

    Obviously, Adam’s album is going to sell a lot more in the next 11 months, but there’s no guarantee he’ll have outsold David in a year’s time, and that’s what I take issue with.

  115. I guess I’m in the minority of people who really like WWFM. I notice whenever it’s played it’s not called out as being penned by Pink. It’s constantly winning Smash or Trash battles (e.g, Virgin station in Montreal), and comes in at #2 on Z-100 in NYC on a regular basis. I think it’s VERY radio friendly and that Adam and the band play it really well (AND Adam connects to it, the way that he did with Mad World). Is it a fun song? No, it’s not, but Music Again is, and it was played after WWFM on the Early Morning Show (maybe that’s the next single). FYE is a great club song, but I do not think the lyrics work for mainstream radio. JMHO. Oh, and Adam has said that they changed up the video for FYE to make it a bit less sexual (or in your face) and more fun. I think the MV works well, better than the performance on the AMAs did, for me, anyway.

  116. Really? Because this sounds a lot worse to me that what was discussed here. It’s kinda crazy too. I’m not an Adam fan although I like him as a person (just not his music), but I’m shocked.

    Mansfield is touching on some good points, IMO. Adam is talented–no doubt about that. But is he more than a novelty to radio and TV just yet?

    It comes down to the foundation Adam and his team has built for him. Is it strong enough to sustain a long-term career after the phenom phase has passed? We’ll see.

    I think someone–Adam, RCA, 19M, perhaps a combo of the three–bought into the hype machine a bit too much. The magazine covers and ET interviews are cool, but some of that time should have been spent doing yeoman’s work–radio interviews and smaller get-to-know-him concerts. Not saying he didn’t any of this kind of work, but perception is key here. And some will see where Adam just went for the big stuff and ignored the little things that make for a true career.

    I think–and this is just me going on my two cents–that maybe part of the reason Adam hasn’t completely taken off with radio play is because stations don’t think he’s done his penance for them. Sure, he’s hosting several Jingle Balls, but those were booked after the fact. His team should have had him performing at several of these shows instead of strutting around (um, pun semi-intended) for TV all the time.

    I wonder if some people watching Adam see him more as a celebutante rather than a serious artist. If so, the 74% drop in sales will look bad to them because they don’t have anything on which to base another opinion. FYE basically arrived DOA on radio. WWFM is doing OK, but if you count TFM, that means Adam needed three tries to get a decent song on the radio. And for a new artist, that’s bad. If you can’t get it right out of the gate at the beginning of your career, then there’s no reason for anyone to stay interested once the confetti has been swept away.

    This all just conjecture and who knows how it will all turn out for any of the Idols? I wish them all the best. But they have to build strong in-roads before becoming big stars now. Being an Idol used to mean a certain amount of instant stardom. But the show is getting old and while it’s still a good vehicle for rising singers, they’ll have to work the system just like other aspiring artists. Saying “I was on Idol” and a dollar buys you a cup of coffee.

  117. CariA
    Hopefully the fact that FYE music video is now getting airplay on MTV and maybe on VH1 countdown, will help in his sales. Hopefully, that is. I never would have predicted this for him. I really hope something happens over the next few months to help with sales. I happen to love his music and him as a person. All of this really makes me sad for Adam. Now I’m going to go sulk for awhile’ ¦’ ¦

    I choked on my laughter and irritated my cat while reading this. I think I live in an alternate universe from you. Sales are not bad. WWFM was just pushed for radio adds a couple weeks ago. This is only it’s third week and it’s already got 57 monitored stations that have added it. It’s continuing up the charts and things are looking really good for it. Album sales have been fantastic. 250K over the first two weeks is nothing to sneeze at. Does he need a hit single to help stabilize the album sales going forward? Sure. But WWFM seems to be working toward that end quite well. Additionally FYE the single is still selling and was #23 on the Billboard Canadian top 100 chart and the video is getting play. There are tons of positive signs here. No reason to be depressed or sad yet.

  118. But radio singles are not a reward, they are a means to an end.

    Yes… singles are not a reward, but I think if your album is pushing 4x, 7x platinum, and continues to sell with momentum the label has lots of revenue to reinvest in continuing that momentum. So in that sense, an album’s sales can be correlated with the number of total singles released. But I kinda think we’re in agreement overall. It makes little economic sense for RCA to invest in a single for DC at a point when the album has lost its momentum.

    Right now RCA seems willing to invest the money required to find the right formula, which is awesome for Adam. But it has little to do with David Cook, aside perhaps for making his profit margin look a little healthier at the moment.

    Exactly. Regarding DC, I hope RCA focuses its efforts on finding the right formula for record #2 to smash on radio and sell like hotcakes ;).

  119. My daughters friends say FYE is played on Sirius (sp?) alot and was on their countdown Thanksgiving weekend. Does Sirius spins count for mediabase since they are satellite? Maybe that is where they FYE sales are coming from?

  120. I think someone’“Adam, RCA, 19M, perhaps a combo of the three’“bought into the hype machine a bit too much. The magazine covers and ET interviews are cool, but some of that time should have been spent doing yeoman’s work’“radio interviews and smaller get-to-know-him concerts. Not saying he didn’t any of this kind of work, but perception is key here. And some will see where Adam just went for the big stuff and ignored the little things that make for a true career.

    Well, as a member of the national press, I can tell you that there doesn’t seem to be anybody in any industry or pursuit or issue who doesn’t seem to prefer visibility in the national press to small, get-to-know-you gatherings, even though such gatherings may *well* acquaint a smallish group of people much more deeply with their work.

    Now, everybody may be wrong about whether national media is actually more useful than contact with citizens in smaller venues to one’s business, or cause, or bottom line, or whatever. But my email and voicemail and the sucking up that gazillions of press and publicity people are constantly doing to me and my colleagues makes it pretty clear that very few people think they *are* wrong about this!

    Which is to say — choosing national media over more local stuff may well have been a miscalculation on the part of RCA in this case. But they were just following a very large trend when they made that calculation!

    I actually don’t think that it will turn out to have been the wrong thing, in the long run. I have a hard time seeing how national and international name recognition is going to hurt you in the long run in show business…. That’s not to say that I think the media coverage in any way guarantees him a good career. … But I don’t think *either* a small-group or a national-media approach could accomplish that. In the end, radio and music buyers will either like your stuff and pick it up, or not. … The press and publicity and public-contact you get only acquaints people with you. Whether the acquaintance pays off obviously depends on whether they want to buy what you’re selling.

  121. But it has little to do with David Cook, aside perhaps for making his profit margin look a little healthier at the moment.

    Well, except that they’re both RCA artists and both the products of “American Idol,” so, like it or not, there’s going to be some overlap there. And I would imagine the bottom line will be just that, the bottom line, i.e., how much RCA profits off each of these guys.

    Obviously, with Adam, they were willing to blow their wad right out of the gate because they expected him to be HUGE (or alternatively they’ve already sunk so much into him that they keep throwing in more in the hope that they can still recoup their investment).

    Time will tell, that’s for sure. And I know that David is better off with a “slow and steady” (conservative) approach, but it doesn’t mean I have to like it!

  122. FYE is a hookless not memorable song. To me that’s what made it a flop on radio. Pop/dance songs have to be really catchy to actually make an impact. You’re not supposed to forget it the second it’s over, but it should stay there on your head, even if you don’t really like it. FYE was not like that. It just didn’t have a good hook. To me it’s just that simple, and many of us actually pointed that out when the song was released.
    It’s not a radio song, not because of the lyrics, but because of the hook (or lack of it).

  123. My daughters friends say FYE is played on Sirius (sp?) alot and was on their countdown Thanksgiving weekend. Does Sirius spins count for mediabase since they are satellite? Maybe that is where they FYE sales are coming from?

    I think Sirius loves Adam after his interview with them. I guess Sirius spins are not counted because they are satellite.

  124. Oh JMS, I wasn’t really sulking. ;) Just being dramatic and I was actually kinda laughing when I wrote it. It’s always nice to make someone laugh though….glad I could help you out there!!

  125. It’s way too early to throw in the towel on Adam. I’m kind of surprised Mansfield wrote such a negative piece on Adam considering Adam’s promotion is just starting. As I recall in the Los Angeles Times round table, wasn’t he rooting for Kris to win? I could be wrong on that, and it doesn’t really take away from his right to express his opinion. And Adam’s roll out has been rough and his single has yet to take off, but it still is too early in the game to predict doom and gloom.

    I really think Adam is a visual artist, and I think his label knows that probably based on how well his MVs sold during the Idol season. I also think that is why they are making a video of WWFM.

    And speaking of videos, Adam is #8 on Vevo’s top videos. I suspect that site will be getting a lot of traffic today since it’s just been launched. Of course, that won’t help WWFM, “the single,” but it will help FYE.

    http://www.vevo.com/

  126. Does Sirius spins count for mediabase since they are satellite?

    Yes, Sirius/XM spins are monitored by both Mediabase and NielsenBDS and contribute to the airplay charts.

  127. If Adam is on the skids like Brian is saying why would he be the artist chosen by Sony to perform at the Vevo kick off party? If all the signs point to him being a miserable failure wouldn’t Sony and RCA choose someone else to represent them. And why would the executives choose to be in a picture with someone who is currently only a flash in the pan and risk their executive positions by supporting him? And why is their going to be another video made for an Adam song, 3 for 3. Somebody is paying for this and I don’t think TPTB are really interested in throwing money away. But then I’m not in the biz so I don’t know why.

  128. FYE is a hookless not memorable song. To me that’s what made it a flop on radio.

    Well, I can see where you come from with that. But by my definition the song wasn’t exactly a *flop* on radio. It’s more that radio didn’t even *begin* playing it….

    A “flop” on radio, to me, implies a song that they started playing, but then nobody requested or said they liked, so after they played it for a while, they dumped it. That’s the standard situation for ‘failed at radio,” to me …. and I agree with you that very often happens because the song doesn’t hvae a good enough hook.

    But it just seems very odd to me to attribute the fact that a few huge stations simply never played the song, and in fact started playing a completley different song instead, to FYE’s lack of a hook …. Seems to me that in the lower reaches of radio playlists, and among songs that they try out but then abandon after awhile, there are *lots* of songs that have mediocre or no hooks. But radio’s trying them out to see if listeners will connect anyway. And then, if listeners don’t, they drop the song — and then it’s “a flop.”

    Just seems to me that something else must have bothered them about it for them to have flat out refused to play it while choosing another song from the same album to play. Does that really happen very often? Seems to me it doesn’t, but of course I don’t know for sure.

    It also puzzles me that in Canada, stations in pretty much all the biggest markets *did* start playing it. Some hvae now dropped it, I gather. But, to me, *this* is what you expect from a song with hook problems — that radio will pick it up and try it out, then drop it after a while because of lack of listener response.

    I can see why it might ultimately hvae failed at radio because of hook problems. But I’m very skeptical that NY and LA refused to play it because of hook problems. That doesn’t seem right to me, at all. Can anybody think of examples of other songs that radio refused even to try out because they thought they didn’t have strong hooks?

  129. If Adam is on the skids like Brian is saying why would he be the artist chosen by Sony to perform at the Vevo kick off party? If all the signs point to him being a miserable failure wouldn’t Sony and RCA choose someone else to represent them. And why would the executives choose to be in a picture with someone who is currently only a flash in the pan and risk their executive positions by supporting him? And why is their going to be another video made for an Adam song, 3 for 3. Somebody is paying for this and I don’t think TPTB are really interested in throwing money away. But then I’m not in the biz so I don’t know why.

    Because he carries a lot of buzz, and even executives aren’t prescient or anything, to a full extent; they’re not unlike us in being culpable in mistaking flashes in the pan with potential long-term trends.

    (Not saying Adam is that at all in trouble, or that I necessarily agree with Brian, yadayadayada. Just pointing out that support, while conducive to success, doesn’t ensure it)

  130. If Adam is on the skids like Brian is saying why would he be the artist chosen by Sony to perform at the Vevo kick off party? If all the signs point to him being a miserable failure wouldn’t Sony and RCA choose someone else to represent them. And why would the executives choose to be in a picture with someone who is currently only a flash in the pan and risk their executive positions by supporting him? And why is their going to be another video made for an Adam song, 3 for 3. Somebody is paying for this and I don’t think TPTB are really interested in throwing money away. But then I’m not in the biz so I don’t know why.

    Well, I think that one potential explanation that many folks here hvae given is that, since they’ve already invested a lot in Adam, they now are kind of desperate to recoup that by “making him happen” and are thus pushing him as hard as they can, in hopes that their initial hopeful investment was not in vain, even though there are some signs that it may have been.

    Personally, I just think that a lot of people in the industry find him very interesting and do think that he has the potential to be quite successful with the public as well, and that’s why they invite him. …. But even if I’m right about this, industry interest and buzz don’t necessarily translate into public adoration!

  131. Brian is right that Adam’s sales plummeted but I’ll take 50k in sales. He’s halfway to gold now! Glass is always half full.

  132. Oh JMS, I wasn’t really sulking. ;) Just being dramatic and I was actually kinda laughing when I wrote it. It’s always nice to make someone laugh though’ ¦.glad I could help you out there!!

    To paraphrase a certain S8 favorite, it’s not like we’re cutting ourselves.

  133. To paraphrase a certain S8 favorite, it’s not like we’re cutting ourselves.

    :lol: who said that?!

  134. To paraphrase a certain S8 favorite, it’s not like we’re cutting ourselves.

    And speaking of our red headed fire cracker, I CAN’T believe an animated trio sold more albums than Allison! What is the deal with people buying Alvin and the Chipmunks?

  135. It bugs me for weeks, but is Kris the one whose debut sales were the highest among all Jive’s debut albums this year? All other Jive’s debut albums sold less that Kris’? Am I the only one that is concerned about Jive’s financial report this year?

  136. And speaking of our red headed fire cracker, I CAN’T believe an animated trio sold more albums than Allison! What is the deal with people buying Alvin and the Chipmunks?

    Maybe word got out that Alvin and his brothers have recently been adopted by that famous pet lover, Susan Boyle.

  137. To paraphrase a certain S8 favorite, it’s not like we’re cutting ourselves.

    OMG I still think that was the best line ever. And if they’d had a song on her album with the title “It’s not like I’m cutting myself” I’d have downloaded it in a heart beat even if I’d hated it. Just seeing the title in my library would have been worth the money.

  138. Lucy:

    A ‘flop’  on radio, to me, implies a song that they started playing, but then nobody requested or said they liked, so after they played it for a while, they dumped it

    But for some, it is a flop because Seacrest had that big OMG!! premiere for the song on his nationally syndicated show, and the song went pretty much nowhere after that. It’s a matter of perception, naturally, but for some, that perception is out there.

  139. It bugs me for weeks, but is Kris the one whose debut sales were the highest among all Jive’s debut albums this year? Am I the only one that is concerned about Jive’s financial report this year?

    I think he’s second highest. I think Jive may have a really traditionally conservative business structure; by reducing promo and pushing certain things more lightly, they may well be able to keep an overall solid profit margin based on radio play, singles, and touring. So I’m not sure we have to worry about Jive.

    (Oh. My. God. Am I actually considering, in any shape or form, worrying about corporate entities? Damn you, Kris Allen and Allison Iraheta!)

  140. And speaking of our red headed fire cracker, I CAN’T believe an animated trio sold more albums than Allison! What is the deal with people buying Alvin and the Chipmunks?

    Maybe word got out that Alvin and his brothers have recently been adopted by that famous pet lover, Susan Boyle.

    You now realize there will be some bizzare animated/real-time movie crossover starring Alvin and the Chipmunks with Susan Boyle? The havoc Simon Cowell sows across the universe…

  141. “Just pointing out that support, while conducive to success, doesn’t ensure it)”

    I agree. But I will also say that RCA and Sony and 19 have been doing this for quite awhile and that they seem to know something about the business whereas the rest of us are just guessing based on a relatively small bell curve from previous idols and with built in prejudices. No one is going to tell me that we are voicing thoughts that are not colored by being inside the AI bubble.

    If I were to look at the results of Shakira’s sales and Leona’s and One Republic and many of the other releases in the last couple of months with the same AI mentality, these established artists would definitely be history about now. Their sales have been nothing short of miserable.

  142. LaRue
    12/09/2009 at 2:16 pm

    Lucy:

    A ‘flop’  on radio, to me, implies a song that they started playing, but then nobody requested or said they liked, so after they played it for a while, they dumped it

    But for some, it is a flop because Seacrest had that big OMG!! premiere for the song on his nationally syndicated show, and the song went pretty much nowhere after that. It’s a matter of perception, naturally, but for some, that perception is out there.

    Oh, I totally grant that it’s not only a perceived flop but an actual flop, in the sense of — Didn’t get played on radio even though it was pushed.

    I don’t think I ever said that it was *not* a flop. Certainly never intended to say that, at least. It was definitely a flop on U.S. radio!

    What I question is somebody’s (yours??) earlier contention that it failed to be played on the radio because it had no hook.

    I think that if something has no hook, radio may pick it up at a record label’s behest, and then drop it after three or four weeks because they’re not getting good listener response. …. But that isn’t what happened with FYE. What happened with FYE is that the very biggest stations simply refused to play it in the first place, and few other stations did either.

    And what I am arguing is that *that* pattern of flopping seems unlikely to me to be related to whether the song had a good hook or not. I think refusal to play it is much more likely to be related to other issues — such as that the stations think that the song doesn’t work coming from a guy singer, or that the song doesn’t have a “current” sound, or the like. ….

    All I’m questioning is whether Z100 looked at FYE and said, Sorry, no can do; hook’s not good enough. …. That’s what seems wrong to me.

  143. I agree. But I will also say that RCA and Sony and 19 have been doing this for quite awhile and that they seem to know something about the business whereas the rest of us are just guessing based on a relatively small bell curve from previous idols and with built in prejudices. No one is going to tell me that we are voicing thoughts that are not colored by being inside the AI bubble.

    Of course. Though if you applied that level of logic to politicians, something I sadly know about, you might be in a bit more trouble than you would imagine. Still, they may know something we don’t. But I’d hardly count on it.

    If I were to look at the results of Shakira’s sales and Leona’s and One Republic and many of the other releases in the last couple of months with the same AI mentality, these established artists would definitely be history about now. Their sales have been nothing short of miserable.

    True. Though it is important to emphasize that they are, in fact, established artists and can ultimately afford that in a different way.

  144. You now realize there will be some bizzare animated/real-time movie crossover starring Alvin and the Chipmunks with Susan Boyle? The havoc Simon Cowell sows across the universe’ ¦

    No kidding. Nevertheless, I’m thrilled if I’ve been able to contribute something to that havoc!

  145. And speaking of our red headed fire cracker, I CAN’T believe an animated trio sold more albums than Allison! What is the deal with people buying Alvin and the Chipmunks?

    Don’t blame me – I bought both :)

    Hey, cut me some slack, I have a 5 year old.

  146. Just pointing out that support, while conducive to success, doesn’t ensure it.

    But even if I’m right about this, industry interest and buzz don’t necessarily translate into public adoration!

    As the old saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.”

  147. No kidding. Nevertheless, I’m thrilled if I’ve been able to contribute something to that havoc!

    *raises a glass to toast lucy’s contribution to the havoc of the universe*

  148. You now realize there will be some bizzare animated/real-time movie crossover starring Alvin and the Chipmunks with Susan Boyle?

    As in “Space Jam” and “Who Killed Roger Rabbit?” Gah. It would have to be a Holiday themed film. If they start now, they could have it ready for next year’s Holiday Season. And let’s face it, if they do make a movie you know we would all watch it. (that is if it is made for TV, I won’t go to the theater for it).

  149. As in ‘Space Jam’  and ‘Who Killed Roger Rabbit?’  Gah. It would have to be a Holiday themed film. If they start now, they could have it ready for next year’s Holiday Season. And let’s face it, if they do make a movie you know we would all watch it. (that is if it is made for TV, I won’t go to the theater for it).

    That settles it. ABC and Fox will battle it out to see which network gets to show it, and then it will go immediately to DVD…. Not only will ad time on the tv showing be mega-expensive, but it’ll most likely be the hottest DVD seller of the 2010 season.

    Simon, I’d better get a cut of this, is all that I can say.

  150. Obviously, with Adam, they were willing to blow their wad right out of the gate because they expected him to be HUGE (or alternatively they’ve already sunk so much into him that they keep throwing in more in the hope that they can still recoup their investment).

    The amusing this is his promo this time last year was seen as excessive and beyond what most winners got, which looking back his promo wasnt THAT insane especially compared to what they’re pouring into Adam. The only major thing he got that Adam hasn’t had was SNL and even that I’m sure they’ll make sure he gets if they think it will help boost his sales.

    It bugs me for weeks, but is Kris the one whose debut sales were the highest among all Jive’s debut albums this year? Am I the only one that is concerned about Jive’s financial report this year?

    Agreed. And I said the other day, if Kris is one if Jive’s biggest of the year then that tells me Jive is simply having a crappy year.

  151. As in ‘Space Jam’  and ‘Who Killed Roger Rabbit?’  Gah. It would have to be a Holiday themed film. If they start now, they could have it ready for next year’s Holiday Season. And let’s face it, if they do make a movie you know we would all watch it. (that is if it is made for TV, I won’t go to the theater for it).

    Not to be cruel, but while they’re at it, I suggest they animate SuBo as well. There are some things that make-up alone cannot fix, and I’m thinking animation may just do the trick.

  152. I agree. But I will also say that RCA and Sony and 19 have been doing this for quite awhile and that they seem to know something about the business whereas the rest of us are just guessing based on a relatively small bell curve from previous idols and with built in prejudices. No one is going to tell me that we are voicing thoughts that are not colored by being inside the AI bubble.

    Yeah, but on the other hand, businesses make bad decisons every day, so just because they’re “in the business” doesn’t mean that they’re decision making is foolproof.

    If I were to look at the results of Shakira’s sales and Leona’s and One Republic and many of the other releases in the last couple of months with the same AI mentality, these established artists would definitely be history about now. Their sales have been nothing short of miserable.

    Well, I think when you’re talking about former AI contestants, it makes a helluva lot more sense to compare them with each other than it does with other successful artists, if only for the fact that AI is a marketing/promotional juggernaut with its own unique impact on the marketplace.

    That being said, somebody yesterday, who didn’t care for her holiday special, thought Carrie Underwood should throw in the towel and “go have babies” because she lacked “star quality” or something to that effect. I thought that special was pretty bad, too, but it’s hard to argue with Carrie’s sales figures or the ratings of her special, so, yeah, we are in a “bubble” here to a degree.

  153. And what I am arguing is that *that* pattern of flopping seems unlikely to me to be related to whether the song had a good hook or not. I think refusal to play it is much more likely to be related to other issues ‘” such as that the stations think that the song doesn’t work coming from a guy singer, or that the song doesn’t have a ‘current’  sound, or the like. ‘ ¦.

    I thought the song was anachronistic . . . and didn’t have any type of hook that would stay with you long term . . . and then when you actively started thinking about the tune to try to recall it, you’d end up whistling some other tune. So it was weirdly old-fashioned, hookless and generic. IMO.

  154. Not to be cruel, but while they’re at it, I suggest they animate SuBo as well. There are some things that make-up alone cannot fix, and I’m thinking animation may just do the trick.

    Okay, she can be the new Jessica Rabbit. But we’ll have live-action chipmunks.

  155. As in ‘Space Jam’  and ‘Who Killed Roger Rabbit?’  Gah. It would have to be a Holiday themed film. If they start now, they could have it ready for next year’s Holiday Season. And let’s face it, if they do make a movie you know we would all watch it. (that is if it is made for TV, I won’t go to the theater for it).

    Not to be cruel, but while they’re at it, I suggest they animate SuBo as well. There are some things that make-up alone cannot fix, and I’m thinking animation may just do the trick.

    But would the animation be homely enough to make people feel outright altruistic after watching? Hmm…

    (Edited because I missed a verb. No amount of editing Susan Boyle is going to actually make people altruistic after watching that kind of DVD!)

    Okay, she can be the new Jessica Rabbit. But we’ll have live-action chipmunks.

    I think I’m going to need another glass to toast this kind of chaos you’re creating…

  156. And what I am arguing is that *that* pattern of flopping seems unlikely to me to be related to whether the song had a good hook or not. I think refusal to play it is much more likely to be related to other issues ‘” such as that the stations think that the song doesn’t work coming from a guy singer, or that the song doesn’t have a ‘current’  sound, or the like. ‘ ¦.

    I thought the song was anachronistic . . . and didn’t have any type of hook that would stay with you long term . . . and then when you actively started thinking about the tune to try to recall it, you’d end up whistling some other tune. So it was weirdly old-fashioned, hookless and generic. IMO.

    Okay.

    But then I think you’re saying more that they refused to play it from the outset — rather than playing it for a bit and then dropped it — mainly because it was anachronistic, i.e., it didn’t fit the format.

    Or are you really saying that radio stations routinely refuse to play songs *at* *all* because those songs don’t have strong hooks? … Because if you are, I’d need to hear an argument that would tell me that’s true!

    Seems to me I’ve heard lots of things that never rise high on playlists but that radio *starts* to play that don’t hvae good hooks…. But I do agree that I *don’t* hear them play stuff that they feel is “anachronistic.” And I can believe that this was their problem with the song.

  157. I think Jive may have a really traditionally conservative business structure; by reducing promo and pushing certain things more lightly, they may well be able to keep an overall solid profit margin based on radio play, singles, and touring. So I’m not sure we have to worry about Jive.

    Talking about profit, we only know (assume we do) one component on the equation – domestic single/album sales, because they are published publicly, we miss all other incomes a label is garnering from an artist, more importantly we don’t know the other critical component, the cost.

    For example (for the sake of discussion only, and let assume RCA and Jive are forced to make drop/keep decision right now), FYE’s sales are almost double that of Kris Allen the album, the revenue from FYE album only is (250000-135000) * $11 = $1,265,000 more, almost 1.3 million. Anyone know how the difference in the costs on the albums and the promotion is relative to 1.3 million?

  158. *edited because I misunderstood a question, I think, so I’m going to look back at it and try and respond more coherently.*

    For example (for the sake of discussion only, and let assume RCA and Jive are forced to make drop/keep decision right now)

    That would be… kind of absurd. Especially because touring is a major income source, and because how the singles pan out is going to matter hugely.

  159. Well, for me, for you dawg LLWD will have similar success as Light On, but as far as album sales, Kris needs a No Air success in order to sell well.

    Cookie was still raking the success of the Magic Rainbow when LO was released and that definitely helped with album sales. And his tour definitely added weight.

    Adam’s FYE clearly flopped; but Adam’s celebrity status gave him the initial album sales any new artist could only dream of. Now Adam is onto his 2nd single so early in the game that FYE is insignificant at this time. So I will treat WWFM as a first single since it is what ADAM is promoting and performing on TV.

    From the look of it, I don’t see it succeeding. 9,000 sales in a week?, after Ellen, after Letterman? after CBS? even after significant increase in radio spins? I am not optimistic. The song is just not a hit material.

    For me, for you lolol, Adam will continue to draw album sales not through single hits but by being Adam. He will continue his antics to keep his name in the limelight (with the support of his label, no less). I believe he will sell out his tours in spring just on the merit of his name.

    Archie continued to sell past his “Crush” hit by courting the tween/teen market. Doing gigs like iCarly and Hannah Montanna. His 2nd single was very much accepted in Radio Disney along with his unofficial 3rd single “Touch my Hand” His spring tours sold out in minutes with the teens/tweens crowd. He did “Arena Tours” in summer with Disney princess Demi Lovato.

    So yeah there are means to sell album and tours past single sales.

  160. For example (for the sake of discussion only, and let assume RCA and Jive are forced to make drop/keep decision right now), FYE’s sales are almost double that of Kris Allen the album, the revenue from FYE album only is (250000-135000) * $11 = $1,265,000 more, almost 1.3 million. Anyone know how the difference in the costs on the albums and the promotion is relative to 1.3 million?

    Well if we therefore take it only to Jive (let’s leave RCA as a seperate entity) then we have Kris Allen the album at about $880,000 and Just Like You at $331,000 in the first week for each respectively. So that would put Allison into some real trouble.

    So think about how ridiculous we are, isolated here in the AI bubble.

  161. Anyone know how the difference in the costs on the albums and the promotion is relative to 1.3 million?

    This breakdown of the cost of a typical major-label release by the independent market-research firm Almighty Institute of Music Retail shows where the money goes for a new album with a list price of $15.99:

    $0.17 Musicians’ unions
    $0.80 Packaging/manufacturing
    $0.82 Publishing royalties
    $0.80 Retail profit
    $0.90 Distribution
    $1.60 Artists’ royalties
    $1.70 Label profit
    $2.40 Marketing/promotion
    $2.91 Label overhead
    $3.89 Retail overhead

  162. This breakdown of the cost of a typical major-label release by the independent market-research firm Almighty Institute of Music Retail shows where the money goes for a new album with a list price of $15.99:

    This is strangely uninformative. I’m assuming more than one disk would have to sell for the label to get their $1.70 profit from it. So how many do they expect to sell using this break down? Do you have the link to this info?

  163. I would think the breakeven sales number is directly proportional to how much was spent to record the album.

  164. This breakdown of the cost of a typical major-label release by the independent market-research firm Almighty Institute of Music Retail shows where the money goes for a new album with a list price of $15.99:

    $2.40 Marketing/promotion

    Using this breakdown, FYE album sales so far can cover 1,265,000 * (2.4/15.99) = $190,000 (round up) more on promotion/marketing than KA the album. For simplicity, let’s assume the label spend the promotion budgets all on gigs. I don’t know how much each gig costs, let say 10K on average, then we will get 19 more promotion gigs.

  165. I don’t post often but today I felt the need to do it because seriously there are things that I don’t understand. I start to follow closely AI this year because of Adam Lambert (although I liked D.Cook but I was very dissapointed by his album… maybe the second one will be better) but I follow almost relegiously two British groups for the pastm, hmmm, 10 years so I have some perspective..
    First of all I’ve seen major companies take good, bad, rediculous decisions that no fan could understand. Brilliant and craptastic rollouts. Wrong and right single choices. It’s part of the game. Yes they are experts bad they can make mistakes too.
    Adam’s single rollout is one of the strangest I’ve ever seen. Usually companies choose one single and stick with it. The almost double release of FYE and WYWFM was suspicious from the beginning and, to be honest, maybe indicates some kind of disagreement between RCA and 19. The late release was strange also. Like they didn’t know which was the right single to choose.
    As for radio play and that radio stations reject FYE I don’t believe it for a minute. If a company wants to push a single they can do it at least as long it reaches top40 even top30. Then it’s all about the public and how the song it’s accepted. RCA chose not to push the single until the AMAs.
    I don’t know which is the best song for the US radio. I prefer FYE and I simply don’t understand the big deal that a man sings it. But there are a lot of things that I don’t understand in the US culture so I’m not gonna start a debate now… I trully believe that the best radio single from this album is Fever but judging from the conversations here it might not be a wise choise either.
    But as for the album sales I see them as good, even great. Yes I know there are different expectations for AI alumnis but common 250,000 in 2 weeks considered bad, seriously?? For comparisons shake my beloved Muse (and I know there are lot of fans in this site that’s why I bring the name) have a song in the most hyped movie of the year (New Moon), their single is no1 in the alt charts for 13 weeks and it’s climbing in various radio formats (HAC, POP, active rock), they toured with U2 and you know how much they sold since they released the Resistance in US (15 September)??? 273,753 copies. Thank God they have international sales because with this logic they are doomed…

  166. “This breakdown of the cost of a typical major-label release by the independent market-research firm Almighty Institute of Music Retail shows where the money goes for a new album with a list price of $15.99:”

    But as in all things the numbers listed for this are only true for a certain number of albums. Once the initial costs, promo, overhead are recouped the remainder is basically pure profit. So this number may affect the first 100k in sales but not the rest of the numbers.

  167. This is strangely uninformative. I’m assuming more than one disk would have to sell for the label to get their $1.70 profit from it. So how many do they expect to sell using this break down? Do you have the link to this info?

    Not handy, no, I just happened to have the breakdown in my notes. I’m sure a Google search will get you there. And yes, of course this is assuming a certain level of sales to reach break-even. A label that does an initial press and shipment of 250,000 physical CDs will not make a profit if they sell only a single unit. And obviously this represents an industry-wide estimate or average cost breakdown at best. As discussed ad naueseum here, different artists and albums will have more or less invested in marketing and promotion. Where the various Idols fall we can only speculate. Sorry you found the info uninformative – if you dig up additional data I’d certainly love to add it to the knowledge base.

  168. lorismile
    12/09/2009 at 1:11 pm

    I agree with whoever said WWFM needs it’s own cover art etc. I assume they wanted to get radio play first. Is that how they did LLWD?

    LLWD was released with the “communist block letter” cover, much to fans’ dismay. Many felt that the early poor sales could be at least partially connected to the lack of Kris’ face on his itunes single. The “official” LLWD photo (which was gorgeous, btw) didn’t appear until about 3-4 weeks later, if I recall correctly. The problem was that the photo shoot didn’t take place until the day LLWD was released, so the cover was delayed. Don’t think it was intentional, just how it worked out schedule-wise.

  169. I think what gets forgotten in the AI bubble is that many many artists are making a very fine living selling 100k albums. Heck, many independent artists would be yelling from the rooftops if they sold 50k.

  170. wow- people were slamming Brian in his column. He’s giving his thoughts ‘“ and people think he’s anti-Adam. I do think Kris’s numbers have stabilized and people are on that site calling Kris a flop and claiming he has great promotion, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    Well, his column does have the distinct pissy *odor* of someone who has been saving all his ammo waiting for just the right opportunity to slam Adam. Apparently Brian’s VEVO invite got lost in the mail.

    Adam is halfway to gold in two weeks and the winner of the competition has sold only 135,000 in three weeks and that doesn’t even warrant a sentence, Brian? I think that’s what people are taking issue with. And instead of comparing Adam to the monster that is Subo (whose numbers make everyone except Bocelli look bad) maybe Brian should compare him to someone like Rihanna, an established artist who isn’t doing much better but whose latest single has received tons of adds because, well, because she’s Rihanna, an established artist.

    And Kris has had great promotion – pretty much all the same stuff Cook had, yet his numbers are nowhere near Cook’s. The fact that Adam has had certain unique opportunities generated solely because of outside interest in him doesn’t take away from the standard winner’s promotion Kris has received.

  171. Using this breakdown, FYE album sales so far can cover 1,265,000 * (2.4/15.99) = $190,000 (round up) more on promotion/marketing than KA the album. For simplicity, let’s assume the label spend the promotion budgets all on gigs. I don’t know how much each gig costs, let say 10K on average, then we will get 19 more promotion gigs.

    I can’t edit my post. I want to add.

    Lots of assumption here, but my point is even if we use today as a point in time and treat all the cost in the past as sunk cost, the performance of FYE is not at all bad in term of covering the cost. I use Kris’ album as a comparison, and it could be both album suck. But if people are willing to be patient about Kris album, I think FYE earned some time to prove itself too.

  172. Adam’s opportunities have been “generated solely because of outside interest in him“. Uh really? Yes, maybe his View appearance and some of the other recent ones due to the AMA fallout… but who got him the AMA performance in the first place?

  173. Adam is halfway to gold in two weeks and the winner of the competition has sold only 135,000 in three weeks and that doesn’t even warrant a sentence, Brian?

    My point is, in previous weeks Brian came down as distinctly anti-Kris, does he need to do that this week as well because he seems anti-Adam? Does even the negativity of one commentator need to be a competition between them.

  174. I ignore the comments in other columns. As bad as it can get herd, it’s nothing compared to other sites. I think things will look better once the charts aren’t overrun with holiday songs. I

  175. It’s way too early to throw in the towel on Adam. I’m kind of surprised Mansfield wrote such a negative piece on Adam considering Adam’s promotion is just starting. As I recall in the Los Angeles Times round table, wasn’t he rooting for Kris to win? I could be wrong on that, and it doesn’t really take away from his right to express his opinion. And Adam’s roll out has been rough and his single has yet to take off, but it still is too early in the game to predict doom and gloom.

    Brian Mansfield is a HUGE Kris fan- if I am recalling correctly he actually said that Kris’ win was the greatest moment in American Idol history and that he embodies everything an Idol winner should be.

    I don’t believe that he hates Adam personally, but he certainly has no problem childishly giving vent to his unhappiness that Adam has eclipsed Kris in some very key areas. He pokes Adam with a sharp stick whenever he gets an opportunity and IMO we saw that in spades today.

  176. “Brian Mansfield is a HUGE Kris fan- if I am recalling correctly he actually said that Kris’ win was the greatest moment in American Idol history and that he embodies everything an Idol winner should be. ”

    Buderschoookie: I think you’re mixing up Brian Mansfield (USA today) with Richard Rushfield (previously with LA Times). I think Richard said words to this effect, not Brian.

  177. cosem, those are all good observations and questions, but I would argue that Adam has more in common with Susan Boyle than he does with Muse at this point — not as an artist, certainly, but as a product.

    Muse built their audience slowly and organically and, if I’m not mistaken, was a big seller with two successful albums (both of which I owned before Adam ever mentioned their names, BTW) in the UK before anybody tried to market them widely in the US. Adam’s launch came from a reality TV show; he has yet to prove himself as a *recording artist* with any longevity, and that’s why many people were not wowed by his initial numbers, especially given the incredible exposure he’s had since the show last season.

    Only time will tell if he’s going to be the next Kelly Clarkson or the next Taylor Hicks (whose initial sales were also very good, but who fell off the charts after his Idol fanbase purchased his album).

    What’s the other group you follow?

  178. O

    nly time will tell if he’s going to be the next Kelly Clarkson or the next Taylor Hicks

    But Adam didn’t win. I’m still not sure why he gets compared to winners. Daughtry, yes, but Kelly and Taylor no.

  179. Bryan Mansfield leans towards Adam. In the tour reviews, he mentioned how Adam can sell out tours on his name alone, while Kris will “live and die by his music”. (shocking relevation for a musician, I know) And while Adam can walk on red carpets and appear on Details, Kris needs to work doubly hard to even get LLWD played. He even gave positive spins for Adam when TFM took a drastic drop in 2nd week and FYE single’s debut was around 18k.

    So no, I don’t think Bryan is a !HUGE! Kris fan.

    And for the record, neither is Lyndsey Parker a !HUGE! Kris fan. She has always been a bigger fan of Adam. Just a heads up in case she might write something later. :P

  180. “but who fell off the charts after his Idol fanbase purchased his album.”

    Based on single sales Adam doesn’t have an AI fan base, does he? And he lost the competition, didn’t he? Anything that is said negatively amount Adam’s sales needs to be said about Kris and more so about Allison’s.

  181. Brian of Idol Chatter was commenting on the fact that Adam’s album had the biggest drop on the entire BB 200. I’m sure when Kris had the worst openng week of any Idol winner he similarly made note of that.

    Kris had a fairly decent % drop from the week before so why mention him. And if Adam doesn’t have an AI fan base, where is he getting his fans. He doesn’t have a hit single..yet.

  182. But Adam didn’t win. I’m still not sure why he gets compared to winners. Daughtry, yes, but Kelly and Taylor no.

    Because I’d bet my firstborn son that RCA spent as much promoting Adam’s first album as they did on Kelly’s or Taylor’s. They probably spent more on Adam than on Kelly and Taylor *combined* if you really want to go there. It doesn’t matter if Adam was the “winner” anyway because what I’m talking about is the *launching pad* for the artist and how much has been invested in his promotion. Nobody can reasonably argue (IMHO) that Adam has been treated as anything but a “winner” since coming in second to “that other guy.”

  183. Adam’s opportunities have been ‘generated solely because of outside interest in him’. Uh really? Yes, maybe his View appearance and some of the other recent ones due to the AMA fallout’ ¦ but who got him the AMA performance in the first place?

    Before the AMA’s
    TfM: song, generated by outside interest in Adam
    TfM video: due to song, outside interest
    2012 premiere, press junket, red carpet, outside interest
    This is It Premiere: due to 2012 connection, outside interest
    Rolling Stone cover: outside interest
    20/20: outside interest
    Young Hollywood Award: outside interest
    Details cover: outside interest
    Out cover: outside interest
    Multiple stories on Hollywood Access, ET, etc. feeding off all of the above, plus I’m sure I’m missing a few.

    AMA nominations: ?
    AMA performance: ?

    I put a question mark by these since none of us really knows for sure how they came about. But I’m pretty sure record companies don’t just “get” any old performer an AMA slot. There has to be a certain amount of interest in the first place.

  184. I put a question mark by these since none of us really knows for sure how they came about. But I’m pretty sure record companies don’t just ‘get’  any old performer an AMA slot. There has to be a certain amount of interest in the first place.

    It kind of would sustain itself, however, if it was some sky-high cost. (No “any old performer” is going to be able to compete with a huge established act for that kind of venue) So I’m not sure how much one can take from that, anyway.

    But, yeah, I’d probably chalk that up, at some level, to “outside interest”. This is really about the ratings. But without arrangement from 19E? Not likely, and who knows what’s involved there.

  185. Almost all of the “outside interest” in Adam has been generated by the fact that an openly gay singer emerged from Idol. That’s an interesting story. All the other opportunities for Adam including the AMA were probably arranged by 19R or 19M. Adam is also a controversial person so that generates interest as well.

    Dick Clark Productions are business partners with 19 so I’m sure 19 has an in for the AMA. They produce SYTYCD together.

  186. but who got him the AMA performance in the first place?

    I suspect that everybody offers their artists to the AMA producers. And then the AMA production company decides who they think will bring them the highest ratings. Dick Clark dreamed the show up a long time ago so that ABC could hvae an awards show to pit against the Grammys, which at some point had jumped from ABC to CBS.

    That show is really about making money from advertisers. That’s it’s entire reason for being, as I understand it. So unless they think your entertainer is going to bring them ratings, they’re not going to book them, no matter how many blandishments you pour on them or how great your performer is.

  187. That show is really about making money from advertisers. That’s it’s entire reason for being, as I understand it. So unless they think your entertainer is going to bring them ratings, they’re not going to book them, no matter how many blandishments you pour on them or how great your performer is.

    Of course, at some level, that’s bound to be true for all such performances, really. But I’m not sure that necessarily then excludes someone paying an entry price in any event. It kind of works as a harmonious relationship, from what I gather.

  188. Because I’d bet my firstborn son that RCA spent as much promoting Adam’s first album as they did on Kelly’s or Taylor’s. They probably spent more on Adam than on Kelly and Taylor *combined* if you really want to go there. It doesn’t matter if Adam was the ‘winner’  anyway because what I’m talking about is the *launching pad* for the artist and how much has been invested in his promotion.

    How much has been invested in Adam’s promotion? Are we talking about $ number here? Does anybody have this info? Or Kelly’s? Or Taylor’s? So far, I can only see the media’s “hypes” over Adam, I’ll think those cost RCA nothing…

  189. Almost all of the ‘outside interest’  in Adam has been generated by the fact that an openly gay singer emerged from Idol. That’s an interesting story.

    Yep. It’s a double edged sword, for sure. But I would add that if that openly gay singer wasn’t also a phenomenally gifted performer, the story wouldn’t be so interesting.

    And TfM (which was a big chunk of that publicity) had nothing to do with Adam’s sexuality and everything to do with his voice.

  190. Before the AMA’s
    TfM: song, generated by outside interest in Adam
    TfM video: due to song, outside interest
    2012 premiere, press junket, red carpet, outside interest
    This is It Premiere: due to 2012 connection, outside interest
    Rolling Stone cover: outside interest
    20/20: outside interest
    Young Hollywood Award: outside interest
    Details cover: outside interest
    Out cover: outside interest
    Multiple stories on Hollywood Access, ET, etc. feeding off all of the above, plus I’m sure I’m missing a few.
    AMA nominations: ?
    AMA performance: ?

    So far, I can only see the media’s ‘hypes’  over Adam, I’ll think those cost RCA nothing’ ¦

    I’m not really sure what you guys are saying here. You do realize that Adam (like Kris and Allison and Cook and all major-label artists) has a publicity team who are busy pitching all of the editorial coverage listed above, right? This is the same team that works to book their artists on award shows and other appearances like the AMAs and SNL. And yes, those publicists do get paid, the cost of which is budgeted into a promotional line-item. Of course the fact the the media has some level of interest in the artist contributes to these stories getting picked up. But it’s not free, and it’s not a matter of just fielding inbound offers, even for the most “fascinating” of stories.

  191. Based on single sales Adam doesn’t have an AI fan base, does he? And he lost the competition, didn’t he? Anything that is said negatively amount Adam’s sales needs to be said about Kris and more so about Allison’s.

    Do you honestly believe Jive has spent anywhere near as much launching Kris or Allison as RCA has on Adam? And if you read my entire post, I wasn’t comparing Adam to anybody from his season of Idol; I was comparing him to Muse.

    Like all the Idols, Adam has to compete in the real world now, and with big hype, comes big expectations. I sound like a broken record, but it’s about managing expectations. So far, Adam’s sales have not lived up to the hype. (And, really, that’s all Brian Mansfield was saying in his blog post. I don’t think he had an “agenda” in the least.)

  192. Brian of Idol Chatter was commenting on the fact that Adam’s album had the biggest drop on the entire BB 200. I’m sure when Kris had the worst openng week of any Idol winner he similarly made note of that.

    Kris had a fairly decent % drop from the week before so why mention him. And if Adam doesn’t have an AI fan base, where is he getting his fans. He doesn’t have a hit single..yet.

    Everyone went on record regarding Kris being the lowest debut number and many of them were down on him for it (Slezak is obviosuly a notable exception). I think all of them are fair game for the bloggers and Kris has already taken punches on his debut. The comments on the Mansfield article seemed to imply that because he dissed Adam he was requied to diss Kris which is really what was driving me crazy in the first place.

  193. How much has been invested in Adam’s promotion? Are we talking about $ number here? Does anybody have this info? Or Kelly’s? Or Taylor’s? So far, I can only see the media’s ‘hypes’  over Adam, I’ll think those cost RCA nothing’ ¦

    Promotion is only one component in launching a new artist. Do you think they got those A-list songwriters for Adam and produced that fantastic music video for free?

    Did Taylor even *get* a music video for his single? Did Kelly? (I honestly don’t know, just asking.)

  194. Like all the Idols, Adam has to compete in the real world now, and with big hype, comes big expectations. I sound like a broken record, but it’s about managing expectations. So far, Adam’s sales have not lived up to the hype.

    what is funny to me is that it is only certain individuals within the Idol Bubble who are saying Adam isn’t living up to expecatations. People within the music industry think Adam is starting off well and see a big future ahead of him. In addition, only certain people in the Idol Bubble are saying Adam’s career is on the rock and is going to fail, and it seems to come from the same ones. Brian doesn’t hate Adam. He’s not like VFTW, but Adam was never his favorite and he has acknowledged that numerous times. Allison is first and then Kris. There’s nothing wrong with that, but you have to look at the source when filtering opinionated writings.

    Personally, I think Adam fans should ignore it. Adam’s success will be enough to shut up those who think he’s doomed to fail.

  195. But it’s not free, and it’s not a matter of just fielding inbound offers, even for the most ‘fascinating’  of stories.

    Adam himself said that the TfM song was presented to him as an opportunity and the editor of Out said that they wanted Adam for a cover mid-season, so, yes, in some cases it is a matter of just fielding inbound offers.

  196. Did Taylor even *get* a music video for his single? Did Kelly? (I honestly don’t know, just asking.)

    Kelly did. Taylor did not.

  197. (And, really, that’s all Brian Mansfield was saying in his blog post. I don’t think he had an ‘agenda’  in the least.)

    I don’t think Brian has an agenda. Nor do I think every reporter’s credibility is based on who they may or may not have liked during the course of the show. I think people can like one more than the other on the show and still be able to view certain aspects of their “after” career pretty objectively.

    While Brian was a wee bit more negative than I would be, on the basics, I agree with him. I believe that at this point what these guys need is a hit song. I think that’s the only way their cd’s are going to grow legs. With LLWD in the top 40, and WWFM inching ever closer, I think they’re on the right track. The question of course is can they keep that momentum through the holidays and into next year.

    Who knows. I know I sure don’t. But, I don’t think the end has been quite written to their stories yet. Still plenty of gas left in the tank. All it takes now is a lot of hard work and a little luck.

  198. Expenses to promote an album:

    Producers, studio costs, session musicians. All 3 Season 8 Idols had these expenses.
    Photography sessions, cover artwork and graphics. All 3
    Video for single. All 3
    Advertising, banners, internet placement. All 3
    Bands. All 3
    Travel for gigs. All 3

    Adam has had no Performance Jingle Balls, Kris has 11. But Adam had expense of AMA performance.

    I would think the expense sheet for Kris and Adam are pretty damn similar. Allison probably hasn’t seen as much go out.

    Anything to do with 2012 was not an Adam expense since he was basically just a session musician for this and Sony would have picked up the price tag.

  199. Just curious as I read through the comments. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison. Based on record sales so far, Adam is the clear leader. So, why aren’t there gloom and doom predictions for Kris and Allison as well?

    We won’t have any idea of how things really will work out long-term for any of these people for quite a while, but I’m struck by the focus on gloom and doom for Adam, and not the others, if we’re looking at sales numbers.

    I hope that they’re all successful, and so far, we have no idea who will be successful.

  200. Do you honestly believe Jive has spent anywhere near as much launching Kris or Allison as RCA has on Adam?

    I actually doubt that all that much less (if any)has been spent on Kris’ launch than Adam’s. Kris had top notch producers and writers on his album (every track has a producer/all but one have a co-writer or two); a top photographer for his album and promo photos; a top video director and an expensive looking video that was shot in the middle of the night in the desert; he has been flown all over the country for radio interviews and jingle balls; he has put together a band and has performed on almost every tv talk show (and those he has not been on yet he will be on soon), he will be on sytycd, the disney parade etc.; there are lots of internet and magazine advertisements for his album. So other than the AMA production, what has RCA really spent so much more money on for Adam that has not been spent on for Kris?

  201. Adam himself said that the TfM song was presented to him as an opportunity and the editor of Out said that they wanted Adam for a cover mid-season, so, yes, in some cases it is a matter of just fielding inbound offers.

    And David Cook has said that ESPN presented him with an offer to record One Second to Change Your Life for their World Series coverage. And Blender wanted him to tend bar at the Viper Room for a story last November. But I’ll bet that was after Jaime Abzug and her assistants pitched the concept to them.

    I’m not saying this to diminish Adam and his appeal to the media. I’m just saying that there are costs there – for all artists.

  202. Just curious as I read through the comments. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison. Based on record sales so far, Adam is the clear leader. So, why aren’t there gloom and doom predictions for Kris and Allison as well?

    It’s a matter of hype. Kris and Allison weren’t pushed as the new best thing. Adam was by a lot of people. So anytime he seemingly falls sort of those expecatations, it’s pointed out. It’s the blessing/curse combo at work.

  203. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison.

    Because Adam was prematurely touted as the winner all season long. Not Kris. Not Allison…..but Adam.

    Can’t have the hype without the expectations.

    And speaking of expectations….wow. He had the largest drop of any album in the entire Billboard 200 chart? Yikes.

  204. Do you think they got those A-list songwriters for Adam and produced that fantastic music video for free?

    How does a song writer get paid? Do they need to be paid up front? Or depends on how the song been sold, then they’ll get their shares of profit?

  205. Of course, at some level, that’s bound to be true for all such performances, really. But I’m not sure that necessarily then excludes someone paying an entry price in any event. It kind of works as a harmonious relationship, from what I gather.

    But we don’t know is how many other entertainers’ management/labels were willing to pay money as well. All we know is who the AMA people eventually picked to put on the show. ….

    My bet would be that virtually every singer with something new out there to pitch was pitched to the AMAs — along with the offer of whatever cash that required — as a potential guest. …. And then the AMA folks chose who they figured would get them the best ratings. ….

    Unless we know that Kris’s management/label, for example, never even offered Kris-plus-cash to the AMAs, then I don’t think we can say that Adam’s label/management is necessarily *committed* to spending more than others, when it comes to this gig anyway.

    I’m certain that the spots didn’t just go to the highest bidders. The AMAs are about getting advertisers to buy time on ABC. That’s where the cash is for them, not in taking bribes from record labels. And if everybody offered, but they chose which offers to take — as I’m sure they did — then all we know is whose offers they took, whlie we don’t know anything about whose management/labels were also perfectly willing to pay, but never did because their person didn’t get a spot.

  206. Well I am an Adam fan but I already bought the CD so why would I buy the singles? The music videos, now those I will buy! Next week FYE!

  207. Because Adam was prematurely touted as the winner all season long. Not Kris. Not Allison’ ¦..but Adam.

    Yes, and Kris won. So what does that tell us? To me, Kris should out perform Adam because obviously, he is more popular with the AI fans, which we have all said are the ones that drive sales the first few weeks, yes?

  208. And David Cook has said that ESPN presented him with an offer to record One Second to Change Your Life for their World Series coverage. And Blender wanted him to tend bar at the Viper Room for a story last November. But I’ll bet that was after Jaime Abzug and her assistants pitched the concept to them.

    I’m not saying this to diminish Adam and his appeal to the media. I’m just saying that there are costs there ‘“ for all artists.

    So you’re suggesting that Adam’s people went to the producers/director of this $200 million blockbluster movie and said, “hey, we’ve got this kid who just came off this reality tv show, and, well, he didn’t win and, well, he hasn’t actually made an album yet but we think he can sing … so why don’t you consider him for the big signature song over the closing credits … ”

    Yeah, something tells me they weren’t aiming for the sky at that point. So, I’m kinda thinking it happened the way Adam said it happened. They came to him. No costs.

  209. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison.

    They all have reasons to express legitimate concern. Kris has gotten more traction on the radio thus far but yes, he needs to sell more albums and continue to sell singles. Allison has neither radio play or sales but people don’t seem to mind since they like her album. Her career at this point will be dictated by Jive’s willingness to invest in her long term because the returns are not coming any time soon. Adam’s concerns are the ability for him to sustain interest and sales while waiting for radio play to lead consumers to the point of purchase.

    All artists have to pay for promotion, production, songwriters, royalties, music videos and a million other recoupable expenses. But the concern is legitimate that Adam’s live product will continue to be more expensive than someone like Kris who can just strap on a guitar and sing. Also, the appearance that the label has pushed harder to promote (read: not free) Adam’s singles on the radio and get top major market stations to become the early adopters of those songs.

  210. BootStar, obviously I’m not comparing Adam with Muse as artists I just made an observation regarding sales and hype. And now Muse have enough hype in the US that someone could assume that they should have more sales than they seem to have. I’m mostly a music lover and not a AI lover so I don’t even know the Taylor Hicks story to make comparisons.
    But I don’t agree with the Susan Boyle comparisons at all. All artists are “products” one way or another. Every singer or group are promoted along with their image not only with their music. The “earnest songwriter”, “the rocker next-door guy”, “the over the top theatrical persona”, “the adorable little teen kid”. Nothing new or just for AI alumnis. Subo is not just a music product. He came from a completely different type of reality show. Everything about her has more to do with her “story” than the music. Sorry but I can’t find any similarities with Adam other than they were both contestants in a tv show. He is a singer who worked for many years as a singer, he had and has a clear vision for himself and the music he want to make, he has music knowledge and yes he wants to have a visual impact too. He made an eclectic record (not perfect but surprisingly good for the AI standards) and a lot of people outside the AI bubble slowly starting to take notice.
    I never was one of the OTT fans who ecpected word domination but I can see that he and his company tried to do what a lot of artists do for the couple past years in Europe. Music fusion, the 80’s, glam rock can be found in numerous new albums from Europeans artists. That means to me that he is a real artist who at least tries to do something relevant and not a bunch of covers just to cash the easy money.. I’ve seen in various music forums a good reception for his album and from people that have nothing to do with AI and haven’t follow the “hype” you all seem to mention. There is a big world outside the AI “bubble” who knows nothing about the controversies and all the other brouhaha. As for the money spent again nothing new and outstanding IMO. I personally feel that his company could much much more to promote his album and more clever. But I’m not his management so… what do I know. But since I’m a designer I do know one thing. His AMAs performance wasn’t as expensive or well designed as everybody seem to believe.
    The other group I follow (yes OT for this thread I know) is Placebo, a group that constantly tries to break the US frontiers but it was never accepted. And I do feel with all my heart that the main reason for their “failure”is the androgynous look and sexual orientation of their lead singer B. Molko who was in your face open and sometimes agressive (BTW the similarities between Adam and Molko are almost scary sometimes, except for the voice). Do you know which was the last line in their latest album review from the not-so reliable EW?”Post’“Adam Lambert, might America be ready for the Placebo effect?” If a 15 old band who produced 6 albums and had a gazillion sold out concerts over the world needs Adam to succeed in US, something is wrong in the US music scene IMHO. Sorry for the rumble..

  211. Yes, and Kris won. So what does that tell us? To me, Kris should out perform Adam because obviously, he is more popular with the AI fans, which we have all said are the ones that drive sales the first few weeks, yes?

    Adam’s commercial performance will always be combed more thoroughly than Kris’. These are facts. You can say that “Kris won, therefore he should sale more” until the cows come home (ignoring all kinds of other factors, such as hype, buzz and expectations) but at the end of the day, Adam is the one that’s going to be scrutinized more and for obvious reasons.

    “Kris won” doesn’t quite cut it in this situation.

  212. Just curious as I read through the comments. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison. Based on record sales so far, Adam is the clear leader. So, why aren’t there gloom and doom predictions for Kris and Allison as well?

    The Kris predictions came out 2 weeks ago after his first week sales were in. And I think the fact that LLWD seems to be doing well in sales this many weeks after it was released and after the album was released has sort of provided a beacon of hope for him since he has also established himself on radio pretty well.

    I think with Allison, it’s more difficult because she really hasn’t gotten major promotion when compared to the guys. But I actually think she has the hardest position of the 3 because Kris is doing well on radio and Adam has gotten some major album sales. Allison hasn’t gotten either.

  213. Adam’s commercial performance will always be combed more thoroughly than Kris’. These are facts. You can say that ‘Kris won, therefore he should sale more’  until the cows come home (ignoring all kinds of other factors, such as hype, buzz and expectations) but at the end of the day, Adam is the one that’s going to be scrutinized more and for obvious reasons.

    I guess I would agree with you if they both were brand new artists not coming off of AI. Then of course, Adam’s name is out there and you would expect him to sell more. But based on the various posts here, all AI album and single sales in the first few weeks are driven by the AI fan base. Adam lost, so you would expect either Kris to sell more, or for their sales to be pretty close. Based on the sales for seasons past, winner vs runner up, I would say Adam exceeded expectations. I recall after Kris’s debut album numbers came out, many of us were hoping Adam would sell 120,000. And that was being cautiously optimistic. But hey, I know there is more than one way to interpret the data and I respect your point of view although I may not agree with it. :)

  214. All artists have to pay for promotion, production, songwriters, royalties, music videos and a million other recoupable expenses. But the concern is legitimate that Adam’s live product will continue to be more expensive than someone like Kris who can just strap on a guitar and sing. Also, the appearance that the label has pushed harder to promote (read: not free) Adam’s singles on the radio and get top major market stations to become the early adopters of those songs.

    Artists all have to pay their share of expenses which will come out of their royalties before they ever get a dime. Most get an advance in anticipation of the royalties they will receive only because most of these people don’t have a dime & they generally have to relocate, & all the other stuff…

    However, Promotion Dollars & expenses are a little different for the winner of American Idol. That person actually wins $$ that as part of the prize of winning, from which the label draws from until it runs out & also advancing the winner $ from anticipating getting back their money. There really is a “lucrative” aspect for winning American Idol. If there wasn’t, then what’s the point? So many contestants land up getting a record deal anyway.

    If these artists didn’t compete on the show, for which sponsors pay big bucks for & didn’t get paid, or be able to get a jump start on their career it take money. I heard, though I can’t substantiate it, that a label has to sell 500K just to break even for their investment. So when I hear people saying “oh, it doesn’t matter, they still got a record deal” that isn’t quite true. Of course we do not know how much “promotion/expenses” dollars the winner actually gets. I would think it would be at least $1M if not more. Why did I pick $1 milion, well the sister show America’s Got talent forks over $1 million to the winner & they get to star somewhere thereby even making more money. It takes about 450K to produce a music video & most artists have to split that cost. Ask Blake Lewis, he spilled that bit of information & he wasn’t happy because he didn’t even like that single & then he gets the bill & almost croaks – he didn’t know he was expected to share the cost. So when Jordin & David Cook won & put out a video, the label pulled their share out of their winning funds & the artists didn’t have to forfeit any royalties money from the start.

    So bottom line – it $pays$ to win American Idol.

  215. All this talk does make me wonder: what’s the better position to be in right now? Having average album sales but strong radio play (Kris) or having solid album sales with not so much radio play (Adam)? I have an opinion, but I’m curious what others think on the subject.

  216. So when Jordin & David Cook won & put out a video, the label pulled their share out of their winning funds & the artists didn’t have to forfeit any royalties money from the start.

    And this is why Kris is better off for having won the show despite a thought that exists in so many places that he would have been better off finishing in 3rd or 4th.

  217. Adam lost, so you would expect either Kris to sell more, or for their sales to be pretty close.

    So you were honestly surprised and taken aback when Adam outsold Kris?

  218. cosem, I’ll have to check out Placebo. A lot of my favorite artists are from the UK, and I love discovering new bands. As far as Adam is concerned, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I thought he was terrific on Idol, and I voted for him to win, but he always struck me more as a struggling musical theater performer than a working musician. I guess that’s why I just never got all the “rock star” hype. It’s just never rung true for me. He can play pretty much any “role” he’s asked to, because he’s that talented, but there’s an authenticity quotient (for lack of a better term) that he just lacks *for me.*

  219. undercooked

    I think the arguing point has shifted from who has a bigger AI fan base to who gain more fans outside AI.

    The stable sales and warm radio reception of LLWD, and the diminishing decrease of Kris’ album sales provide some supports that Kris is gaining fans outside AI.

    While Adam’s first week album/single sales shows he got good support from his fans, his second week album sales and single radio charting hasn’t shown sign that he is getting many fans outside of AI.

    Since outside world is much much larger than AI bubble, well, you know where the conclusion goes…

  220. anovich
    And this is why Kris is better off for having won the show despite a thought that exists in so many places that he would have been better off finishing in 3rd or 4th.

    Exactly! Just look at Allison’s situation and I bet no one will debate that anymore.

  221. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison.

    Because Brian Mansfield did not headline an article stating that Kris was the lowest selling AI winner of all time. Instead, he knew he would get hits if he put a headline claiming Adam is plummeting. I agree his numbers went down but he was not far behind other artists and ahead of Kris (by far). I am sure that Brian is glad that the hot topic is Adam right now so the story of the AI winner is pushed in the background. I have yet to see him headline a negative story with Kris Allen’s name in the title.

  222. YAY!!!! Finally heard Adam on the radio!!! WWFM on Sirius XM 20 on 20.

  223. The stable sales and warm radio reception of LLWD, and the diminishing decrease of Kris’ album sales provide some supports that Kris is gaining fans outside AI.

    What stable sales? I’m under the impression Kris’s 3 weeks of sales so far don’t match Adam’s one week. Am i wrong with this?

  224. The stable sales and warm radio reception of LLWD, and the diminishing decrease of Kris’ album sales provide some supports that Kris is gaining fans outside AI.

    What stable sales? I’m under the impression Kris’s 3 weeks of sales so far don’t match Adam’s one week. Am i wrong with this?

    LLWD is a single. I didn’t follow it closely, but here is its sales number hot from Billboard.

    38 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  27,641 (-12%; lw 31,327) Total: 214,308 (43)

  225. OMG. HDD 1 Day estimates:

    The unlikely Syco/Columbia phenom will top the HITS’ Album chart for a third consecutive week next Tuesday (12/15), with a total that could hit 600k, bringing her cumulative number close to 2 million.

    Close to double platinum in three weeks?!?!?! Knock me over with a feather.

    Debuts:

    1. Glee Vol 2 – 120-130k
    2. Chris Brown – Graffiti – 95-100k
    3. Gucci Mane – 85-95K
    4. Thirty Seconds To Mars – 65-75K
    5. Jimmy Buffet – 60-70K
    6. Snoop Dogg – 55-65K
    7. BG 40-50K
    8. 35-40K
    9. Clipse

    Market was only down 5% last week from the previous week. That probably accounts for the lower than usual Black Friday drops.

  226. I think with Allison, it’s more difficult because she really hasn’t gotten major promotion when compared to the guys. But I actually think she has the hardest position of the 3 because Kris is doing well on radio and Adam has gotten some major album sales. Allison hasn’t gotten either.

    Well, she got shafted. Nobody knows her. She didn’t get any face time on A.I. at all & I think if they didn’t focus on Adam as much & actually spread the wealth, she might have done better, certainly with the tweens. I think she’s got real potential. I think the format this year really hurt the vast majority of them because we weren’t given enough time to get to see & hear a lot of songs. Sometimes all it takes is one song to win the crowd over or to get noticed. It’s that “wow” song that no matter what they do after, it doesn’t matter. Now with 4 judges again, this next season then again the won’t be able to put in maxium performances.

    Adam has not only gotten major promotion & performance opportunites than the winner (I liked Allison just so you know) – case in point, he got to perform on the AMAs, the winner got to announce. WTF?? That was a huge audience for exposure.

    I don’t think Adam’s album sales match the hype he got. I keep reading things like “major sales” and that simply isn’t what I’m seeing. Last year, Cook got 100K more than Adam for the debut week & stayed in top 10 for a number of weeks & it took a long time before he dropped off top 50. Adam also placed #3 but he quickly fell to #21 the 2nd week & sold around 50K. And it’s still a big heavy CD buying time & probably there were still a lot of left-over Adam fans who haven’t quite picked up the CD or repeaters who bought a few more. So Yes, those first few weeks are mostly A.I. fans who bought & you know they probably bought more than 1 CD. Adam having a 74% drop from week one to week two – the biggest drop of anyone in the top 50, should not be considered as a good thing & with all the promo he got too. It’s like saying when you are falling out of a 50 story building & halfway though you are thinking “so far so good.” I’m no expert but I think that means he didn’t fare well with the non-Idol fans. Of the first 10 albums on HDD, only two stayed the same from the week before & everyone else moved up quite a bit.

    Heck hope springs eternal! It’s just my opinion & nothing more.

  227. HOLY CRAP. How can Susan Boyle sell another 600K albums next week. This is getting friggin ridiculous.

  228. So you were honestly surprised and taken aback when Adam outsold Kris?

    Am I surprised Adam outsold Kris? No. But I really did think their numbers would be close. I thought Adam would outsell Kris by perhaps 20 percent based on how their first singles sold. Prior to that, I really didn’t know what to expect because of how AI turned out.

    I guess I am more shocked that Kris didn’t sell more because he put out a good album and he is a good looking guy. His numbers baffle me.

    I think the arguing point has shifted from who has a bigger AI fan base to who gain more fans outside AI

    I agree. My point was that I didn’t find Adam’s numbers a disappointment so far. My expectations were based on the fact that AI fans drive debut numbers. And one can usually look to the outcome of the season and make a pretty educated guess on who will sell more.

    But you are correct, now it’s time for Kris and Adam to reach out to non-A.I. fans. As another poster said upthread, after January is where it might get a bit dicey for Adam if a single doesn’t take off. Kris’s single seems to be taking off, so I think he is going to see an upward swing if things hold.

  229. ,mnbvcgkm,bv cgmcvgm,

    Sorry. That was just my jaw hitting the keyboard at SuBo’s 3rd week estimate.

  230. 1. Glee Vol 2 ‘“ 120-130k

    I guess covers are what sells! SuBo and now Glee. I do think Glee has cut into some of the usual AI album numbers and it’s because the Glee kids are singing covers. Too bad.

  231. The unlikely Syco/Columbia phenom will top the HITS’ Album chart for a third consecutive week next Tuesday (12/15), with a total that could hit 600k, bringing her cumulative number close to 2 million.

    Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Simon Cowell is going to be sooooo much more smug from now on. lol

  232. HDD screwed up though and completely left Bocelli of the list. I’m sure he’ll be selling some albums next week as well.
    Who would think crazy cat lady music trumps everthing else in 2009. I predict at least one SuBo performance on S9.

  233. reinharv
    12/09/2009 at 5:50 pm

    Allison will be ok.She will be back and some good things coming out about her after the new year.

  234. I guess covers are what sells! SuBo and now Glee.

    I agree. Originality obviously doesn’t pay nowadays.

  235. Gee maybe Adam should put out his covers of ‘Come Home’ and ‘I Just Love You’

    I honestly don’t know who would listen to Subo. Unbelievable.

  236. Expenses to promote an album:

    Producers, studio costs, session musicians. All 3 Season 8 Idols had these expenses.
    Photography sessions, cover artwork and graphics. All 3
    Video for single. All 3
    Advertising, banners, internet placement. All 3
    Bands. All 3
    Travel for gigs. All 3

    [Snip]

    I would think the expense sheet for Kris and Adam are pretty damn similar. Allison probably hasn’t seen as much go out.

    Although those are common expenses, they may not cost the same. One can spend a lot or a little on any one of those items. It’s like saying that “2012” and “Paranormal Activity” cost the same to make since they both had to purchase film stock, pay actors, pay production costs, build sets and promote the film. Not even close.

    It is unlikely we’ll even know how much was spent on either album, but there are a lot of indications that Adam’s cost more (bigger name co-writers, producers, full orchestras, weeks of iTunes ads, major mega-push to radio, expensive video).

    Way back in June, we discussed labels and it was made clear that RCA spends more and Jive spends less. That’s their modus operendi. There spending habits are well documented in industry articles. It wouldn’t be shocking if they followed their usual policies for their S8 Idol signees.

    RCA goes for the big bang. Sometimes it explodes in their faces and sometimes it explodes up the chart. The chart explosions pay for the chart implosions. Jive tends to have less dramatic results (and knows how to work radio like nobody’s business while RCA normally releases Idol singles relatively late as part of their strategy). If you check back in the archive way back the summer, these policies were fully explained. Kris needs nurturing so Jive is a good label for him. Adam is bombastic and generates news like crazy, so RCA is a good label for him. It’s not a bad thing to have money spent on you.

  237. Kris needs nurturing so Jive is a good label for him. Adam is bombastic and generates news like crazy, so RCA is a good label for him. It’s not a bad thing to have money spent on you.

    Good points.

  238. Simon Cowell is going to be sooooo much more smug from now on. lol

    Simon is currently digging through the marshes of the low country hoping to find SuBo Part II. There isn’t a cat lady in Wales or Scotland he hasn’t meddled with already.

  239. HDD screwed up though and completely left Bocelli of the list. I’m sure he’ll be selling some albums next week as well.

    Traditionally, for the one day estimates, they only give the numbers for the debuting artists. It’s on Friday that they give us the top 10.

    They are probably so stunned at SuBo that they felt the need to report her numbers.

    I remember a few years ago when we were all agog at Josh Groban’s numbers. Old JoGro has nothing on SuBo. This is unreal.

  240. Adam’s cost more (bigger name co-writers, producers, full orchestras, weeks of iTunes ads, major mega-push to radio, expensive video).

    Kirsten, can you explain more on how the above bolded two are different in Adam and Kris’ cases? I saw Kris album itunes ads for weeks too, at up and front positions, and Kris did as many as if not more radio interviews and radio station sponsored concerts than Adam did.

  241. “Kris needs nurturing so Jive is a good label for him.”

    Wow, it sounds like Kris is 17 and needs to be babysat. Kris is a functioning adult with a college education who has seen the world. He is a married man with familial responsibilities. He darn well better know what he is doing since ignorance is never an excuse.

    And to say off hand that RCA is spending more on Adam, then Jive is on Kris is just absolute pure speculation. And what does spending more money have to do with anything, anyway. Is it being said that Adam sold more because he spent more on his album. Hog wash. He sold more because people bought more.

  242. Holy crap!SuBo is SLAYING everyone! Imagine her sales Christmas shopping week?

  243. Is it being said that Adam sold more because he spent more on his album. Hog wash. He sold more because people bought more.

    Common sense sometimes wins out in the end. :)

  244. Kirsten, can you explain more on how the above bolded two are different in Adam and Kris’ cases? I saw Kris album itunes ads for weeks too, at up and front positions, and Kris did as many as if not more radio interviews and radio station sponsored concerts than Adam did.

    I only saw Kris’ ads during the release week.

  245. I only saw Kris’ ads during the release week.

    Guess maybe Kris caught my eyes more than it did yours. ;)

  246. Did Taylor even *get* a music video for his single? Did Kelly? (I honestly don’t know, just asking.)

    Kelly did. Taylor did not.

    Really? Wow. Taylor never got a video? That’s bad. Every year, it seems some people predict the next Taylor… but I don’t think any of the Idol winners/runner-ups since Taylor had to deal with his promotional lot…

    There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison. Based on record sales so far, Adam is the clear leader. So, why aren’t there gloom and doom predictions for Kris and Allison as well?

    It’s like the stock markets. It’s based more on expectations than actual results. If the public expected profits for company A to drop by 10%, and they only dropped 5%, that’s great news, and the stock goes up. If the public expected company B to post a 10% increase in profits and it insteads posts a 5%… well, that’s bad and the stock plummets.

    In this analogy, Adam is company B– but Kris/Allison aren’t really company A either, since I wouldn’t say they were really exceeding expectations– at least not very much– just that they had low ones to start. For the record, I mostly agree with Brian, but wouldn’t have been quite as harsh. Also, I think there have been plenty of gloom and doom predictions for Kris and Allison. But maybe coupled with less surprise than with Adam. More of, well, sales kinda suck, but let’s hope for the best and focus on some positive, e.g LLWD’s radio performance, or whatever.

  247. Kirsten, can you explain how the above bolded two are different in Adam and Kris’ cases? I saw Kris album itunes ads for weeks too, at up and front positions, and Kris did as many as if not more radio interviews and radio station sponsored concerts than Adam did.

    I seem to recall that Adam had ads up for quite a while on iTunes. I remember the Kris fans griping because he didn’t get a banner ad on the front page when his album went for pre-sale while Adam did. Adam had banner ads up the week before his album went for sale as well. I seem to recall Kris only had them up for the week his album was on sale. Anybody have the actual stats?

    Adam has had two singles pushed to radio while Kris has only had one. So even if the same amount was spent on all three, RCA has spent twice as much as Jive. The pushing on WWFM has been very hard because they had to get some traction before the Christmas freeze. We may never know what that cost RCA, but it’s not normal for KIIS, Z100 and OHP to start spinning a new single on their own or add it before the ad date. KIIS is especially odd since that song doesn’t even fit their format.

    Again, it’s a good sign if a label is behind you.

  248. Kirsten
    12/09/2009 at 5:49 pm
    OMG. HDD 1 Day estimates:

    The unlikely Syco/Columbia phenom will top the HITS’ Album chart for a third consecutive week next Tuesday (12/15), with a total that could hit 600k, bringing her cumulative number close to 2 million.

    Close to double platinum in three weeks?!?!?! Knock me over with a feather.

    WOW WOW WOW! Okay now I’ll be honest as I had wanted to say this since her debut week but didn’t. With all the non-stop media hypes, news and promotions since the S8 finale, I was expecting Adam to sell well like SuBo’s numbers though I was expecting more like half her numbers but debuted at #1 for Adam. But instead, it’s SuBo that did it and 3 weeks straight!!! Now I’m going to pick up my jaw that has dropped onto the floor.

  249. Where’s David A ‘s cd? I thought on HDD it was 33, just ahead of Allison.

  250. Wow, it sounds like Kris is 17 and needs to be babysat. Kris is a functioning adult with a college education who has seen the world. He is a married man with familial responsibilities. He darn well better know what he is doing since ignorance is never an excuse.

    I think she meant his career needed nurturing, not him personally, LOL. That’s why Jive specializes in: Nurturing new artists.

    And to say off hand that RCA is spending more on Adam, then Jive is on Kris is just absolute pure speculation. And what does spending more money have to do with anything, anyway. Is it being said that Adam sold more because he spent more on his album. Hog wash. He sold more because people bought more.

    He sold more, and he’ll need to sell a lot more to recoup his expenses if, as many speculate, more was spent on his roll-out.

  251. “We may never know what that cost RCA, but it’s not normal for KIIS, Z100 and OHP to start spinning a new single on their own or add it before the ad date.”

    Is direct payola being insinuated here?

  252. There seems to be a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Adam, but not for Kris and Allison.

    Because Brian Mansfield did not headline an article stating that Kris was the lowest selling AI winner of all time. Instead, he knew he would get hits if he put a headline claiming Adam is plummeting. I agree his numbers went down but he was not far behind other artists and ahead of Kris (by far). I am sure that Brian is glad that the hot topic is Adam right now so the story of the AI winner is pushed in the background. I have yet to see him headline a negative story with Kris Allen’s name in the title.

    Exactly!!!

    If you compare the last three idols who were in the runner-up position, Adam is doing great. His sales are far above Blake’s sales and he is equal to Archie.(-1,000)

    If I remember correctly, people claimed that season 7 produced two very likable and talented guys.(not to mention the viewers were way up in that season) I find it hard to believe that 250K is disappointing. After I saw Kris’ numbers I braced myself for Blake type numbers. I never imagined that FYE would sell as much as Archie’s cd did.

    Kris has sold less than any winner or runner-up in the last three seasons. Hell, he sold less than Blake. Why don’t we compare him to Cook? It would be embarrassing. Kris’ three week total (as winner) doesn’t even equal runner-up Archie’s first week.
    If Adam is in trouble, then Kris and Allison need to pack their bags.

    Market was only down 5% last week from the previous week. That probably accounts for the lower than usual Black Friday drops.

    It was said to expect a 60 to 70% drop-especially for idols. I figured 75% wasn’t that bad since it was coming off Black Friday week. Funny how 5% can all of a sudden predict a failing cd. I think it’s just comes down to how non fans (and those inside the bubble) want to spin it.

    When Brian Mansfield writes an article that realistically evaluates at Kris’ and Allison’s numbers, I will consider that he isn’t just spinning numbers for hits.

  253. smallie
    It’s like the stock markets. It’s based more on expectations than actual results. If the public expected profits for company A to drop by 10%, and they only dropped 5%, that’s great news, and the stock goes up. If the public expected company B to post a 10% increase in profits and it insteads posts a 5%’ ¦ well, that’s bad and the stock plummets.

    In this analogy, Adam is company B’“ but Kris/Allison aren’t really company A either, since I wouldn’t say they were really exceeding expectations’“ at least not very much’“ just that they had low ones to start. For the record, I mostly agree with Brian, but wouldn’t have been quite as harsh. Also, I think there have been plenty of gloom and doom predictions for Kris and Allison. But maybe coupled with less surprise than with Adam. More of, well, sales kinda suck, but let’s hope for the best and focus on some positive, e.g LLWD’s radio performance, or whatever.

    Very well said and I totally agreed!

  254. I recall Kris having an iTunes banner on the front page only the week of release. In addition to front page, he had a banner on the Pop page for release week as well as the following week. I believe Adam had the main page banner for three weeks. (Week before, week of, and week after release).

    Kris had the All-Access banner for LLWD up for at least two weeks, but that drives radio play, not consumer sales directly; I haven’t seen any singles banner for Adam at All-Access.

  255. Well hopefully Jive will start giving Allison more promo, Kris has gotten alot and the winners package with all these Jingle Balls and Concerts and Magazines and Talk shows, he’s been on.

  256. I seem to recall that Adam had ads up for quite a while on iTunes. I remember the Kris fans griping because he didn’t get a banner ad on the front page when his album went for pre-sale while Adam did. Adam had banner ads up the week before his album went for sale as well. I seem to recall Kris only had them up for the week his album was on sale. Anybody have the actual stats?

    Adam has had two singles pushed to radio while Kris has only had one. So even if the same amount was spent on all three, RCA has spent twice as much as Jive. The pushing on WWFM has been very hard because they had to get some traction before the Christmas freeze. We may never know what that cost RCA, but it’s not normal for KIIS, Z100 and OHP to start spinning a new single on their own or add it before the ad date. KIIS is especially odd since that song doesn’t even fit their format.

    I recall that Adam fans complaint itune screwed up FYE’s release. Is it the single or the album? Nevertheless, one pre-week ads is now counted as “weeks of iTunes ads” more than Kris’?

    It doesn’t compute for me to compare the radio push for two singles with the push for one, as if Jive doesn’t plan to release a second Kris single so that they won’t have such expense.

    ETA, we know payola is illegal, so in exchange for radio adds and spins, labels use other methods such as concerts like those jingle balls. And Adam only did one such gig, as a guest host, not in the billing. So what exactly is the cost for the ‘mega radio push’ for Adam’s single?

  257. Suzanne, Archie’s numbers were posted upthread when Brian published them mid-day today. They were not leaked in the original batch that Kirsten posted early this morning, and I believe she simply hasn’t had time to update the OP now that Brian has reported. Here you go:

    David Archuleta, Christmas From the Heart (34,000, +57 percent, 122,000/5,000 digital +87 percent, 16,000 digital total)

  258. “We may never know what that cost RCA, but it’s not normal for KIIS, Z100 and OHP to start spinning a new single on their own or add it before the ad date. KIIS is especially odd since that song doesn’t even fit their format.”

    This is interesting regarding KIIS because they actually have been decreasing their spins of WYWFM since last week, so maybe they are figuring out it doesn’t fit their format, or it’s not doing well in their audience research (which I guess is basically the same thing). KIIS no longer appears on the “leaders” chart for the song, which means they are spinning it fewer than ten times (the lowest number of spins on the leaders chart).

  259. “When Brian Mansfield writes an article that realistically looks at Kris’ and Allison’s numbers, I will consider that he isn’t just spinning numbers for hits.”

    The problem with Brian Mansfield to me is that he inserted his opinion regarding Adam when he didn’t for Kris and Allison. He hardly wrote two sentences about Allison, but then Allison’s album is his favorite out of the three and her sales are bad so thats not surprising.

    Even last week, his headline was “Adam almost hits 200,000”. There’s always a negative tint to his articles about Adam. But then Adam’s music isn’t his preference so I’m not really that surprised. He even wrote in his review of Adam that he thinks Adam gets to much hype, etc.

    I honestly think Adam would have to sell like Susan Boyle to get any props from Brian Mansfield. No matter what he does he will spin it negatively and then say Adam’s fans are “in denial”.

  260. Wow, it sounds like Kris is 17 and needs to be babysat. Kris is a functioning adult with a college education who has seen the world. He is a married man with familial responsibilities. He darn well better know what he is doing since ignorance is never an excuse.

    I’m in no way suggesting that Jive hired a nanny for Kris. By nurturing, I meant (and I said this back in the summer long before he sold 80K his first week so it’s not some kind of retcon) that Jive can’t just throw his album out there and expect success. They will need to support him to get airplay and grow his fan base.

    In contrast, SyCo could just throw together an album for SuBo in 4 days and toss it out without a single and have it sell 2 million in two weeks and she probably does need some motherly nurturing. Her career needs little nurturing at all.

    And what does spending more money have to do with anything, anyway.

    On what planet? We live in a capitalist system and one has to pay more for some things and one generally expects better results. I honestly expect higher quality food if I eat at the chi-chi expensive restaurant than if I eat at MacDonald’s. Sometimes, I will be disappointed, but the expensive restuarant with lower quality food than MacDonald’s will soon be out of business.

    Just look at Blake’s video. That thing is cringeworthy. A few more bucks and maybe he could have gotten VH1 to play it (or play it more often). Maybe it would have moved a few more units. If having a better video doesn’t generally help to move units, then just stick the artist in an empty room and record them with a cheap-o hand-held video recorder. Why spend any money at all? If having better producers doesn’t generally help to move units, just get some kid from the local tech school to be the producer. If better writers don’t generally produce bigger hits, then just grab some of those 1000 songs that Sarver has written. So, the hope is that with more expenses spent on your album, you will sell more because it will be a better album. It’s too soon for the “better album” to have much of an effect since the first two weeks are sold to fan bases. It’s a long-term effect.

    Is it being said that Adam sold more because he spent more on his album. Hog wash.

    Who said that? I didn’t say that. I said that he had more spent on his album. RCA spent more because they thought they would make more. How is that a negative?

    Of course, that means you also have to sell more, but that doesn’t mean that you will. RCA swings for the bleachers. The number of strike outs are made up by hitting enough home runs to keep them in the business. Jive is more content just trying to get on base. It doesn’t get the headlines, but it has a better batting average.

  261. iTunes update:

    In the past 24 hours, LLWD has moved up on iTunes ahead of Carrie (Cowboy Casanova), Justin Bieber (One Time), and just now, Rihanna (Russian Roulette). He’s now at #31, right behind Kelly. I have no idea how much of a gap is between LLWD & AG now, but it will be interesting to see if the performance tonight on SYTYCD gives him the boost over Kelly.

  262. but Kris/Allison aren’t really company A either, since I wouldn’t say they were really exceeding expectations’“ at least not very much’“ just that they had low ones to start.

    Really? Why?
    I didn’t see ANYONE predicting 80,000 in first week sales. Fans and non fans were shocked! How low were the expectations? Were they that he would be the lowest AI winner of all the seasons? Did anyone predict he wouldn’t beat Blake’s numbers?
    I am equally surprised at Allison’s numbers. It is a good album.

  263. Didn’t it take Kris a few weeks before he made the top 40? LLWD came out 2 months ago and is in the top 30. I think WWFM is doing really well after a couple of weeks!

  264. Is direct payola being insinuated here?

    No. That’s illegal and RCA would never be stupid enough to try it.

    I suspect that Adam will be doing a bunch of summer concerts for the stations or RCA promised something else (e.g. some kind of exlusive access to Adam or one of their other artists).

  265. “I didn’t see ANYONE predicting 80,000 in first week sales. Fans and non fans were shocked! How low were the expectations? Were they that he would be the lowest AI winner of all the seasons? ”

    Gemini, I think if you go back and look at the discussion threads, you’ll find a lot of people expected lower sales for Kris in the couple of weeks leading up to the album release. There was quite a lot of talk about it, in fact, as I recall.

  266. but Kris/Allison aren’t really company A either, since I wouldn’t say they were really exceeding expectations’“ at least not very much’“ just that they had low ones to start.

    Really? Why?
    I didn’t see ANYONE predicting 80,000 in first week sales. Fans and non fans were shocked! How low were the expectations? Were they that he would be the lowest AI winner of all the seasons? Did anyone predict he wouldn’t beat Blake’s numbers?
    I am equally surprised at Allison’s numbers. It is a good album.

    Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I just said in the part you quoted that Kris and Allison were NOT company A because they were NOT exactly exceeding expectations, and that the only similarity to company A could be just that they did have low expectations. I never claimed they exceeded any expectations, just that they started with low expectations… But now I’m confused why I’m restating what I already said but with more words…

  267. “I suspect that Adam will be doing a bunch of summer concerts for the stations or RCA promised something else (e.g. some kind of exlusive access to Adam or one of their other artists).”

    And I suspect that the radio stations generally like Adam and were willing to give his single a spin because it is a reasonably good song. Why does everything that impacts Adam in a positive light have to be the result of some kind of manipulation. Is it a crime for industry people to like his voice and his recordings?

  268. Didn’t it take Kris a few weeks before he made the top 40? LLWD came out 2 months ago and is in the top 30. I think WWFM is doing really well after a couple of weeks!

    LLWD came out on Sept 26th. I’m not sure when it made the top 40. It took a while. Kirsten should know.

    sma11: I’m not arguing with you. I just wanted to ask why Kris would have low expectations to start out with? And why they would have ever been that low?

  269. I suspect that Adam will be doing a bunch of summer concerts for the stations or RCA promised something else (e.g. some kind of exlusive access to Adam or one of their other artists).

    So no much cost right now, right? Even if your suspect turns out to be true, I expect the cost of these future summer concerts (I hope there are!!) will be counted twice by some people, once now for the push of FYE and WWFM as in your post, and again when another single (if there is one) is released in next summer. I hope the accountants for RCA won’t make such mistakes.

  270. I didn’t see ANYONE predicting 80,000 in first week sales. Fans and non fans were shocked!

    Truthiness and I both predicted lower sales than that, and were pleasantly surprised when he sold more. I was basing my predictions on what other artists were selling in the couple of weeks before Kris’ album was released, not on what other Idols sold in the past. I don’t think any other winner has had to deal with the combination of a bad economy, rampant pirating, and 19 and the media pretty much declaring that the other guy won, that Kris has had to deal with, not even Taylor or Ruben. Looking at music sales for this year, what I see are mediocre to dismal sales for most artists, with the occasional superstar taking off, like SuBo or Taylor Swift. Those people’s sales skew the averages higher than they would otherwise be. The reality is that only a few artists are living up to what expectations would have been for them even a couple of years ago. I’m not saying that Kris’ (or Allison’s) album sales are great by any means, but I am saying that I never expected that they would be. Many, many artists are having albums debut with sales of 50-100k their first week, both debut and established artists.

  271. unique28v: Even last week, his headline was ‘Adam almost hits 200,000’ ³. There’s always a negative tint to his articles about Adam.

    You’re kidding, right? That isn’t a negative headline at all — it’s a positive one. And for heaven’s sake, he expanded his Idol airplay top 100 to 101 spots one week just so that he could include Adam at 101 and lie in his headline by saying that Adam made the top 100.

  272. If you noticed, all the other songs on the playlist are mostly charting on radio. LLWD which is charting on radio and iTunes has just moved up to Diesel (MTV) and Large (VH1) this week.

    Make of that what you will.
    If I was one of the other artists…I would be pissed.

  273. Yup, its interesting for a song that has totally tanked via sales and radio that it is being touted as being pretty damn good in the video market on both MTV and VH1. FYE, the dirty little song that is chugging its way up the old video hill. And isn’t it among the tops of the new VeVo site too.

  274. I was basing my predictions on what other artists were selling in the couple of weeks before Kris’ album was released, not on what other Idols sold in the past.The reality is that only a few artists are living up to what expectations would have been for them even a couple of years ago.I’m not saying that Kris’ (or Allison’s) album sales are great by any means, but I am saying that I never expected that they would be. Many, many artists are having albums debut with sales of 50-100k their first week, both debut and established artists.

    So Adam’s sales are surprisingly BETTER than expected! That’s what I’ve been saying!

  275. Wow awesome about FYE video! Can’t wait to buy it next week! Adam is such a magnetic visual perforner. I think LLWD showed us songs take time to chart and it doesn’t overnight.

  276. If you noticed, all the other songs on the playlist are mostly charting on radio. LLWD which is charting on radio and iTunes has just moved up to Diesel (MTV) and Large (VH1) this week.

    Make of that what you will.

    If I was one of the other artists’ ¦I would be pissed.

    If I was one of the other artist’s fan…I would be pissed :)

  277. Yup, its interesting for a song that has totally tanked via sales and radio that it is being touted as being pretty damn good in the video market on both MTV and VH1. FYE, the dirty little song that is chugging its way up the old video hill. And isn’t it among the tops of the new VeVo site too.

    Based on what I learned today, we may have two more summer concerts featuring Adam.

  278. So are you kids ready for some happy news? This current sales week and the next are when holiday shopping patterns really start to counteract the typical post-debut decline patterns. Allison should see a smaller than usual week 2 decline, and Adam and Kris should probably stay flat or post increases this week. The effect will continue the following week, so this is a great time to make up some ground and solidify sales before the January freefall.

    These couple weeks are why so many labels jockey for release dates in November, and why the newly-signed Idols sacrifice sleep and vocal chords to rush-record their albums in between summer tour dates. Here’s how the recent Idol holiday releases have fared in this corresponding calendar week:

    Daughtry: 0% increase, sold 155,021 (his week 3)
    Jordin: 17% increase, sold 62,000 (her week 4)
    Archuleta: 6% increase, sold 59,077 (his week 5)
    Cook: 19% increase, sold 103,544 (his week 4)

  279. So Adam’s sales are surprisingly BETTER than expected! That’s what I’ve been saying!

    This! End of gloom and doom!! Let’s focus on music, Adam’s music!

  280. “Based on what I learned today, we may have two more summer concerts featuring Adam.”

    OK, this one really made me laugh. Poor RCA, they are going to go broke paying for all of the favors they are getting for Adam. LOL.

  281. Tonight’s chart watching should be fun. We’ll see what happens when Kris sings on SYTYCD and watch the song climb on iTunes. Hopefully, his single and album will get a nice bump for at least 24 hours.

  282. So Adam’s sales are surprisingly BETTER than expected! That’s what I’ve been saying!

    I honestly didn’t know what to expect for Adam. I was as shocked as everyone else that he didn’t win AI, and then his singles weren’t doing well, but then he seemed to have a lot of other promo, and his music doesn’t sound like most of what he did on AI. Given all that, I thought it could go either way. JPFan seemed to be the most on the ball with the predictions. I remember that she said that every year, at least 1 Idol goes platinum, and since those sales didn’t go to Kris, they would go to Adam. In the short term, at least, she was right. Who knows where any of them will go from here? I’m going to be watching what Jive does with Jordin in the next few months very closely, since Kris and Allison may well suffer the same fate, whether it’s being dropped or getting another chance.

    I’ve been wondering about something else- do all of the experts here think Taylor Hicks would still be dropped in today’s market, if his album’s sales were the same as they were when released? I’ve been wondering how the labels are adjusting their sales expectations overall, since it doesn’t make sense for them to drop everyone who doesn’t sell like Taylor Swift or SuBo. Or do you think we’ll start seeing the labels get even more impatient for big hits and dropping artists more quickly?

  283. If Kirsten is still around I have a question (or if anyone can answer actually) What effect does video play have on the charts and sales. For Example Adam’s FYE video is suppose to go on sale 12/15 If people buy that does that get counted as a singles sale or some other entity all together. If it has heavy rotation on MTV and VH1 will that improve its charting on Billboards list? Thank You

  284. Pre-SYTYCD iTunes benchmark for Kris (on the overall charts):

    31. Live Like We’re Dying – Kris Allen

    160. Kris Allen – Kris Allen

  285. AFAIK, MTV and VH1 plays count as radio spins. VH1 counts as a HAC spin. I think MTV counts as a Top 40 spin, but I could be wrong. Video sales don’t count towards single sales, but they don’t seem to get reported in any other way either. Play on the VH1 Top 20 Countdown does seem to have a noticeable effect on sales each weekend, or at least it has for DC and KA.

  286. CathyMK
    Thank you for the information. I find it strange that MV sales don’t count in some way towards single sales. I know that I have bought only a MV of a song because the visual enhanced the song for me. But that is just me. Thank you again.

  287. Next week, Archuleta will pass Jordin’s second pop album in total sales with his….um…Holiday album! What’s even more shocking is that he’s selling more at this point per week than Kris Allen! And his 5th week exceeds Allison’s debut week?!?

  288. What effect does video play have on the charts and sales.

    Music video sales are not counted on the sales charts for singles, nor do they currently have their own chart. Since iTunes started selling videos a few years ago, there has been speculation and discussion about Billboard starting a new chart, but thus far it has not happened. Video sales rankings can be tracked to a degree using iTunes rolling bestseller lists, but unit totals are not currently reported anywhere.

    Videos airing on television do count as spins on the format-specific airplay charts. Each video channel contributes to a specific format chart. Here are the major video channels and their corresponding radio formats:

    BET = Urban
    CMT = Country
    MTV = Top 40
    MTV2 = Rhythmic
    VH-1 = Hot AC
    FUSE-TV = Alternative Rock
    Much More Music = Canada-Hot AC

    In the past 7 days, Kris’s LLWD aired 14 times on VH1. So that contributed 14 spins to his HAC chart ranking. FYE’s aired 3 times on MTV and thus added 3 spins to his CHR chart ranking. Etc.

  289. “What’s even more shocking is that he’s selling more at this point per week than Kris Allen!”

    Bet David Archuleta doesn’t sell any new albums after the 1st of the year unless the CD is marked down to 2.99 or less. Interesting that this album picked up sales when the price was reduced to 7.99. Didn’t sell nearly as well when it was full price.

  290. ^^ LOL thats funny.

    I mean why buy a christmas album before christmas when you can buy it after… makes sense to me… I think I’ll wait till the 1st to buy one for 2.99.

    Also aside from the fact that christmas albums normally gain each week the closer and closer to christmas it gets….

  291. ^^^Mrs.P

    I think the $7.99 sale is only on iTunes. The hard copy is still priced at $10.99

  292. Ladymadonna:

    Chart watching for cause & effect? You’re my kind of gal …. since I’m PST, I get to stay up really late to watch. (Do you love watching election returns by county/state like I do, too?)…..

  293. 2.99, 3.99. 7.99. 9.99 – pick a number, any number – archuleta is going to sell… :razz: is promo now a bad thing? seems to me he sold over 730k of them last year at full price… wasn’t the case for some of this year’s crop, who have needed a lot of help and promo to come close to archuleta’s opening and 2nd week cumulative sales numbers… the holiday season will be over soon… just hang in there… :razz:

  294. ^^ LOL thats funny.

    I mean why buy a christmas album before christmas when you can buy it after’ ¦ makes sense to me’ ¦ I think I’ll wait till the 1st to buy one for 2.99.

    fixed. :razz:

  295. I cant edit. btw the 7.99 sale is on itunes which are digital, last i checked most of the sales are in store which are decidely not 7.99(its 11.88 or so at target probably 10.99 at walmart). Both digital and physical sales have increased week to week. Out of 122k he’s only sold about 16k digital total.

  296. “The hard copy is still priced at $10.99”

    Nope, its on sale at the retail outlets, too. Just like most of the Christmas stuff.

  297. Chart watching for cause & effect? You’re my kind of gal ‘ ¦. since I’m PST, I get to stay up really late to watch. (Do you love watching election returns by county/state like I do, too?)’ ¦..

    Sigh. Yes, it’s a sickness. I mean I didn’t stay up until 4am tracking Cook’s ‘Lie’ spike on Monday night or anything….

    And yes, I’m a maniac at election time. I have my own Tim Russert memorial electoral vote whiteboard and everything. I want to install one of those nifty holographic precinct maps that CNN has in my living room. It would be even sweeter if I could get it to also display real-time Dial Idol results.

    In other news, David Cook is a big ol’ chart watcher:

    @thedavidcook: 2 weeks in, Susan Boyle sells 1.2 mil! I’m covering her entire record… :). Congrats, Susan!

  298. ^^
    Nope, its on sale at the retail outlets, too. Just like most of the Christmas stuff.

    LOL, out of curiosity I checked Amazon. Both MP3 and hard copy are priced $10.99

  299. Nope, its on sale at the retail outlets, too. Just like most of the Christmas stuff.

    actually its not. Someone was there today and it was priced at 12.99 in target. it was actually 11.88 last week at mine. I noticed their little sale tag.

  300. .

    Nope, its on sale at the retail outlets, too. Just like most of the Christmas stuff..

    ^ Which ones because I’ll grab a few copies to give away.

  301. I know! I saw the post that DAs album was on sale and decided I needed to go shop, because I’ve seen it at the $11 price and sometimes $13 something in the stores, but never less than $10! Thanks for correcting before I went out to the stores. Dang it.

  302. that darn jive, and their machiavellian schemes to have a ”gasp” christmas cd from the s7 runner up of american idol manage to sell well… at full price, with a little promo thrown in to level the playing field… how dreadful…. they outta be sued for engaging in such underhanded business practices… wonder how many letters will be fired off to jive in protest for this dastardly deed…

  303. Kris’ LLWD is now at #30 and album is at #131. Note that he hasn’t appeared at SYTYCD on the west coast yet.

  304. i saw his performance a few moments ago snlw – very nice, and a nice promo gig for him… kris is pure class…

  305. Mrs. P

    Nope, its on sale at the retail outlets, too. Just like most of the Christmas stuff.

    Please tell me which store you were talking about. I should go there. Stores in my town including walmart, target, best buy etc. never go down below 13.99. Even on Black Friday, there was no store for discount. But I still bought them for Christmas gifts. LOL.

  306. Kris’ album now at #113 then 108!!!

    LOL I can’t keep up with the changes and he is yet to perform in the west. Although this tells me that maybe the number differences are not a lot for album above top 100 on iTunes.

  307. that’s awesome snlw!! a little bit of promo goes a long way…

  308. “And yes, I’m a maniac at election time. I have my own Tim Russert memorial electoral vote whiteboard and everything. I want to install one of those nifty holographic precinct maps that CNN has in my living room. It would be even sweeter if I could get it to also display real-time Dial Idol results.”

    LMAO. Ladymadonna, I’ve known for a while we were accidentally separated at birth. Election night is better than Christmas for me. And sigh, I do miss Tim Russert and his white board, although Karl Rove uses one, too, so it’s almost as good! (But do love the big zoom-in electronic boards where we can drill down to individual precincts!)…

    Back to Idol, I can tell I’m going to have fun with iTunes tonight! Things are looking fantastic!

  309. I just watched Kris’ performance here in AZ! I’m happy with it and am all pumped up!!! lol Was even trying to dance to it but it’s kind of hard with LLWD you know.

    Btw, his album is now at #101!!!

  310. ggdoorsfan
    12/09/2009 at 9:46 pm
    that’s awesome snlw!! a little bit of promo goes a long way’ ¦

    Yup.. esp. on national tv. Kris needs as much exposure as he can get as that’s all he needs really. Same thing for Allison…

  311. You’re kidding, right?

    Nope. I’m very serious. I rarely even read Idol Chatter, but once in awhile it comes up in searches I do.

  312. WOOT!

    Album #97, single #30, ahead of Kelly. Kris is now the highest Idol on the singles iTunes chart! EXCITING!!!

  313. I just watched Kris’ performance here in AZ! I’m happy with it and am all pumped up!!! lol Was even trying to dance to it but it’s kind of hard with LLWD you know.

    LLWD is probably not the easiest song to sing but I thought Kris did a great job of delivering it. The song has a bit of a Barenaked Ladies vibe, which is never a bad thing. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t get a very good itunes bump. Is this the biggest exposure he has had since his single release?

  314. WOOT!

    Album #97, single #30, ahead of Kelly. Kris is now the highest Idol on the singles iTunes chart! EXCITING!!!

    WOOHOO! Is there a live feed for album also? I only have the link to the singles live feed.

  315. And yes, I’m a maniac at election time. I have my own Tim Russert memorial electoral vote whiteboard and everything. I want to install one of those nifty holographic precinct maps that CNN has in my living room. It would be even sweeter if I could get it to also display real-time Dial Idol results

    pfft. Nate Silver is a maniac so I don’t have to be. Meanwhile I have people like Kirsten and others here to give me my numbers data.

    It’s not lazy, it’s efficient. Or so I like to tell others (and myself)

  316. LM: Tell us about David’s bump you tracked Monday. I was surprised when I woke up yesterday to find David’s album had appeared out of nowhere! Where did he start the evening, and where did it peak?

  317. I’m not ladym but I was tracking the album with her – David Cook The Record started the evening out of the Top 1000 – and the album peaked at #119.

    Lie began the evening out of the Top 1000 and I think it peaked at #158.

  318. OK’ ¦.Adam just was interviewed by Barbara Walters. Any bump for him?

    I doubt there would be. But we’ll see if he gets anything when he just performs. But of course these days he gets talk of AMA crap and maybe sometime kind of a song. Lames, but his own damn fault.

  319. Thanks, Jan. Wow, that’s craazy! (and thanks for solving the mystery of what DCTR stands for). It will be interesting to see how that translates to sales, won’t it?

  320. Lie began the evening out of the Top 1000 and I think it peaked at #158.

    Jan I think you missed the continued morning climb! Lie ended up peaking at #134 on Tuesday afternoon, before starting a gradual float back down. It remained in the Top 200 until earlier tonight, but has dropped back to #231 overall now. A short little spike and probably not enough to chart, but fun to see from a song I truly love.

  321. DCTR had actually recovered to somewhere in the 900’s before his appearance in Carrie’s special, but the bump was impressive.

  322. thanks for correcting me ladym – I tried to find the peak – and I guess I missed a few posts.

    Thanks, Jan. Wow, that’s craazy! (and thanks for solving the mystery of what DCTR stands for). It will be interesting to see how that translates to sales, won’t it?

    It may not translate into that many sales from iTunes alone – but maybe a few people will also remember DCTR when they are out holiday shopping. Still it probably won’t be that significant – but it’s nice to know that people still have a warm spot in their hearts for David.

  323. Here’s where Adam’s singles and album were pre-Baba Wawa (~10:30 EST):

    140. For Your Entertainment – Adam Lambert

    169. Whataya Want from Me – Adam Lambert

    Albums:

    122. For Your Entertainment – Adam Lambert

    174. For Your Entertainment – Adam Lambert (Deluxe)

    Surprisingly, his singles have each dropped back a few spots afterwards – FYE is at #141 and WWFM is at #171. The standard album is up one to #121, and the Deluxe is up 5 to #169.

    ETA: Probably worth keeping an eye out for TfM too since apparently that was played after the interview? As of right now it’s not in the Top 1000 overall, but may make an appearance as the other timezones see the show.

  324. Kris’s album is up to 90. Adam was on Barbara Walters, but didn’t perform. Right now he’s at 169 and 121. We’ll see if he gets a bump as well.

  325. I think SuBo has a fairy godmother buying all those albums for her.

  326. Kris’ album at #88. Still haven’t aired on the West Coast. Moving from #161 to #88 is pretty damned incredible. Anxious to see what happens with after West Coast airing.

    ETA: Obviously I’m stunned into a complete grammar breakdown. Think I’m gunna let it stand that way.

  327. You’re kidding, right?

    Nope. I’m very serious.

    I know. My point was that you should have been kidding.

  328. OK, just saw Kris perform on the West Coast, in high def on my TV. Nice, very nice. WAY BETTER than MJ’s video – LOVED IT!

  329. Kris’ album got to #85, but moved back a spot and is at #86 (deluxe version is at #781)

    Looks like Adam has gotten a bump — up to #107 and #151

  330. BILLBOARD HOT 100
    14 13 KELLY CLARKSON ALREADY GONE
    24 28 CARRIE UNDERWOOD COWBOY CASANOVA
    47 44 KRIS ALLEN LIVE LIKE WE’RE DYING
    63 GLEE CAST LAST CHRISTMAS
    66 DAUGHTRY LIFE AFTER YOU

    BUBBLING UNDER
    2 GLEE CAST SMILE (COVER OF CHARLIE CHAPLI
    4 GLEE CAST JUMP (GLEE CAST VERSION)
    22 12 ADAM LAMBERT WHATAYA WANT FROM ME
    14 GLEE CAST SMILE (COVER OF LILY ALLEN SON

  331. I know. My point was that you should have been kidding.

    LOL Sorry to disappoint you John. :)

  332. Kris has hit #83 this morning, so still rising a bit. AL’s album hit #108 and his singles rose a bit, but I no longer have the feed open to quote numbers.

    David Cook’s bump from Monday persists, with DCTR at #271 and Lie at #290, both from below 900 beforehand. That’s a seriously persistent bump.

  333. AL’s album hit #108

    I just checked and now it is at 100 for the delux version. The other verison is higher up but I can’t remember what the number was.

    When people discuss RCA getting reimbused for all the money they have put into Adam, the good news is that Adam’s deluxe version is more popular with fans, so they are making more money per unit, if that helps in the overall picture.

  334. Undercooked:

    I think you might be incorrect about which of Adam’s albums is ahead – if you look at the Pop album chart, the one in front has been the $10.99 version – the $16.99 version has been the one behind for quite a few days now. Look at the prices of the two albums you’re following.

  335. Yeah Adam’s deluxe version has been the lower ranked of the two for awhile now. I just double-checked the feeds and the lower-priced standard edition is at #100, and the deluxe is at #153. But honestly at that level on the iTunes album charts it’s a very small difference in units, so I’m sure the deluxe is more than making up the delta in terms of revenue.

    It was good that both he and Kris got a bump from their television appearances last night. These are prime shopping weeks to be visible – even if folks don’t immediately run to iTunes after a performance, these guys will be front-of-mind as shoppers wander the aisles at Walmart. I expect the SYTYCD grand finale to be great for Adam next week. That’s a score and a half in times of timing and audience exposure. And I really mean audience composition rather than size necessarily – SYTYCD’s ratings are not amazing this season, but there’s a lot of overlap with the casual Idol audience who may just need to be reminded about Adam Lambert. And SYTYCD does have a history, like Idol, of driving chart spikes. Should be big for both the album and whatever single he performs.

  336. Morning iTunes update:

    Songs (overall)

    #34 LLWD
    #36 Already Gone
    #40 Cowboy Casanova
    #110 FYE
    #153 WWFM
    #289 Lie
    #999 FIBOU (Scars has fallen off chart entirely)

    Albums (overall)

    #21 Christmas from the Heart
    #29 Play On
    #84 Kris Allen (standard; deluxe at #590)
    #101 FYE (standard; deluxe at #159)
    #190 Just Like You (deluxe; standard at #294)

  337. Billboard Hot 100 for Week of Dec. 19

    #13 Already Gone (up 1 spot from LW)
    #28 Cowboy Casanova (down 4 spots from LW)
    #44 LLWD (up 3 spots from LW)
    #66 Live After You (DEBUT)

    FYE has fallen out of the Billboard Hot 100

    In addition to being #44 on the Hot 100, LLWD is on these charts:

    #15 Yahoo music videos
    #17 adult pop songs
    #33 pop songs
    #38 digital songs
    #47 Christian songs
    #69 radio songs

    The only current chart that FYE is on is:
    #57 Canadian Hot 100

  338. We got a full album chart leak from Soundscan this week. Rankings to the left indicate chart position on the BB200:

    1 BOYLE*SUSAN I DREAMED A DREAM 527,345 -25 700,779 1,224,196
    6 UNDERWOOD*CARRIE PLAY ON 80,789 -35 123,870 737,131
    22 LAMBERT*ADAM FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT 50,999 -74 198,466 249,902
    34 ARCHULETA*DAVID CHRISTMAS FROM THE HEART 33,612 57 21,449 122,246
    35 IRAHETA*ALLISON JUST LIKE YOU 31,656 999 11 31,667
    52 ALLEN*KRIS KRIS ALLEN 22,345 -31 32,531 134,985
    68 DAUGHTRY LEAVE THIS TOWN 17,117 -5 17,976 783,583
    143 CLARKSON*KELLY ALL I EVER WANTED 8,591 -19 10,584 774,268
    195 DAUGHTRY DAUGHTRY 5,804 -61 14,901 4,580,629
    197 UNDERWOOD*CARRIE CARNIVAL RIDE 5,731 4 5,493 3,008,365

  339. We got a full album chart leak from Soundscan this week.

    Sweet! Carrie’s doing great. She’s already sold nearly as much as Kelly and Daughtry, and should pass Kelly, if not both Kelly and Daughtry next week at this rate! But Daughtry is selling steadily. Wished Kelly was selling more. But pop albums are hard to sell these days– good thing she’s got great radio presence and Grammy recognition. Impressed by the longevity of Daughtry’s first and Carrie’s 2nd albums on this chart. Those are some successful albums right there!

    Wow at Archie selling more this week than Allison on her debut week! Great for Archie, terrible for Allison. Man, girl really needs some promo!

  340. Continued good news for both Kris and Adam

    Singles:

    #32 LLWD (it was at #34 earlier this morning — has been bouncing between #29-#35 the last few days)
    #105 FYE (it was at #110 this morning prior to The View int/perf)
    #108 WWFM (it was at #153 this morning prior to The View interview/performance)

    Albums

    #77 Kris Allen (was at #161 prior to his SYTYCD performance last night)
    #79 FYE (standard) (was at #101 prior to The View int/perf)
    #99 FYE (deluxe)(was at #159 prior to The View int./perf)

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