Weekend Countdown Shows – 11/27/10

Every weekend, there are countless countdown shows. VH1’s top 20 videos. Ryan’s American Top 40. Rick Dee’s Weekly Top 40 and many more. If you find an Idol on one of these shows, please post it here!

This is the general numbers thread for the weekend. So, if you find some cool numbers, this is the thread for posting them.


VH1 Top 20 Countdown | 11.27.2010 (thanks wordnerdarchie!)
Countdown Contenders:
23 Fantasia “I’m Doin’ Me”
21 Lee DeWyze “Sweet Serendipity”

About Kirsten 3046 Articles
Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

101 Comments

  1. iTunes

    #74 – Don’t You Wanna Stay
    #108 – Mama’s Song
    #146 – IIHY
    #166 – September
    #344 – WWFM
    #404 – SS
    #701 – I’m Doin’ Me

    NOTE: Danny’s Christmas single isn’t on the Top 1000; is it on the country iTunes chart yet? ( I can never remember the # code for country to look it up)

  2. HOT AC
    36 31 LEE DEWYZE Sweet Serendipity 477 394 83 1.443
    +7 spins
    -5 bullet
    +0.070 AI

  3. I heard that during Rick Dee’s show he played the Pink/Adam WWFM mashup.

  4. Katharine McPhee and David Archuleta continue to have the Top 2 Christmas songs in the U.S. on AC radio:

    AC
    35 15 KATHARINE MCPHEE I’ll Be Home for Christmas 253 87 166 2.636
    36 17 DAVID ARCHULETA Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas 231 80
    151 2.469

  5. NOTE: Danny’s Christmas single isn’t on the Top 1000; is it on the country iTunes chart yet? ( I can never remember the # code for country to look it up)

    On Monday when it was released to iTunes it was #200 last time I checked on Country iTunes. But I think Country songs have to make the top 100 to make the overall 1000.

    I don’t expect it to because I wouldn’t imagine Christmas songs (unless they are from a big artist or if it winds up getting good radio play) to be a big download item, it has no iTunes banner (like all of his songs and album haven’t), and when Danny tweeted to buy it on Tuesday, he directed people to buy it at his official site (which is smart; I would imagine the direct download from his site will net a bigger profit than itunes).

    Unfortunately, some Kris fans have taken that opportunity to create a gravatar of his single cover (yeah, I know it is lol worthy, but the song isn’t) and spam his timeline with hate tweets. They appear to have a contest going on :( I just laughed at it; it is pretty juvenile; I guess I would have better things to do with my time.

  6. considering some of the ridiculous photos of Kris from some of his photo shoots last Christmas, I wouldn’t think anyone should be making fun of Danny’s single cover, even if it is cheesy :D

  7. This is a little off topic, but Nelly, who just had a number 1 pop hit that sold 2 million copies in just 2.5 months, is going off on his label over twitter (in a respectful way). http://twitter.com/Nelly_Mo

    I guess he’s received some backlash for how his album has performed over the last two weeks, and the numbers not matching up with someone who just had such a big hit song.

    His tweets made me think of Kris, who has to pay the price for Jive not picking the right song. I doubt that anyone at the label will blame themselves for the decision, instead, as Nelly said, they might jump to the conclusion that nobody wants to hear from Kris, but if this was the case, how did LLWD sell 1.5 million copies, and become a top 20 hit on four different charts, and top 10 hit on three charts. Of course, the label will also expect Kris to pay his share for any promotion that they did for The Truth, including making the video, but if he can’t cover his part because there aren’t enough royalties from the song, then that will effect how much money Jive puts towards promoting him in the future.

    And of course, PDs won’t blame Jive, they will see it as Kris delivering a single that flopped, and they are/will use what happened with The Truth to determine whether or not they play AWM, or any other single.

  8. Unfortunately, some Kris fans have taken that opportunity to create a gravatar of his single cover (yeah, I know it is lol worthy, but the song isn’t) and spam his timeline with hate tweets. They appear to have a contest going on :( I just laughed at it; it is pretty juvenile; I guess I would have better things to do with my time.

    Unfortunately, I clicked on a link to read a Danny article regarding his Christmas song and was led to a site that shall not be named (TI) *shudders* with the Danny and Adam hate.

  9. Don’t You Wanna Stay has shown up on the CHR chart. Does it have an official adds date for CHR?

    POP
    121 114 KRIS ALLEN Alright With Me 37 33 4 0.135
    164 124 KRIS ALLEN Heartless 30 16 14 0.224
    160 — JASON ALDEAN/KELLY CLARKSON Don’t You Wanna Stay 15 0 15 0
    152 180 DAVID ARCHULETA Something ‘Bout Love 9 19 -10 0.03

  10. Many times the labels make the wrong decision about the singles and I think it’s unfair that the label choosing the wrong single and that single is not becoming a hit will be seen as the artists fault. Just like the label is not always marketing the artist the right way and that is another thing that is unfair if it is hold against the artist.

  11. Elliegrll, Nelly’s tweets are fascinating. Maybe you should post that in the headlines thread since there is a lot of discussion going on about label support and non-support.

  12. Don’t You Wanna Stay has shown up on the CHR chart. Does it have an official adds date for CHR?

    Lol, there’s not even an adds date for country, I don’t think it will need one tough.
    It has been getting some spins for the past few days, but we are a long way from it getting any kind of traction on CHR charts.
    It’s still very early and it’s going to pick up pace on Country first. I think it should be a big hit on country radio in the end of January and then cross over to HAC first and maybee after that climb the top 40 charts, but only if it’s a major country hit + a big HAC hit.

  13. luly:
    11/27/2010 at 4:32 pm
    Many times the labels make the wrong decision about the singles and I think it’s unfair that the label choosing the wrong single and that single is not becoming a hit will be seen as the artists fault

    .

    ITA luly. My favorite on Kris’album has always been BWCU and I will forever say that it is extremely radio friendly. IMHO Just like I believe Sleepwalker should have been released to radio here as a single and that ain’t happening. Sometimes you wonder what the label is thinking….or not :(

  14. Elliegrll, that was quite interesting reading Nelly’s tweets and it’s a lot of what we suspected but had no proof of.


    This post disturbed me:

    Unfortunately, some Kris fans have taken that opportunity to create a gravatar of his single cover (yeah, I know it is lol worthy, but the song isn’t) and spam his timeline with hate tweets. They appear to have a contest going on I just laughed at it; it is pretty juvenile; I guess I would have better things to do with my time.

    I follow a LOT of Kris fans and absolutely nothing like this came up on my twitter feed from any of them. I had to do a search for #DannyGokey to find what you’re talking about. It appears to be 4 people I’ve never heard of and none of them seem to be Kris fans. Actually, they all seem like V4TW type people.

    I think it’s juvenile and ignorant. On the plus side, it looks like they’re directing people to Danny’s site, so he’s getting hits and maybe some sales.

  15. I think it’s juvenile and ignorant.

    It seems to be some type of bizarro ~10-day contest where they are tweeting to “promote” Danny’s single or CD. Not clear to me if they are fans of anyone else, but I do think they’re tied to VFTW (which speaks for itself. :( )

    I don’t get the idea of sending out ridiculous tweets like that on Thanksgiving of all days, but they were doing it nonetheless :?

  16. It appears to be 4 people I’ve never heard of and none of them seem to be Kris fans. Actually, they all seem like V4TW type people.

    Yikes. Oh, well, par for the course in idol land. Danny and Adam both have had a tough time at VFTW. Overall, the posters at VFTW seem to like Kris. I don’t know if that would actually qualify them as Kris fans but I think perhaps that is where the connection comes from.

  17. The people at VFTW do give Danny and Adam a harder time than they give Kris, but that does not make them Kris fans. They do mock him and his fans as well if provided the opportunity.

    I find it bizarre that Lee did not debut on the countdown right after his premiere. I only see 26 videos on the voting list so it’s not a good sign that he couldn’t make the top 20 out of that short list. Adam, Kris, David, and David all had strong debuts after their video premieres. If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t Lee on the show to premiere his video too? Are people not connecting with his song/video?

  18. Danny and Adam both have had a tough time at VFTW. Overall, the posters at VFTW seem to like Kris. I don’t know if that would actually qualify them as Kris fans but I think perhaps that is where the connection comes from.

    VFTW is a totally tasteless site best avoided, IMHO. Being liked by them is about as dubious an “honor” as exists.

  19. I find it bizarre that Lee did not debut on the countdown right after his premiere. I only see 26 videos on the voting list so it’s not a good sign that he couldn’t make the top 20 out of that short list. Adam, Kris, David, and David all had strong debuts after their video premieres. If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t Lee on the show to premiere his video too? Are people not connecting with his song/video?

    There was a time where I thought VH1 was strictly about votes, but soon learned that it is more than that. I think it is a combination of votes,sales,chart position and payola. I hope Lee fans are voting. I think the voting cutoff day is Wednesday.

  20. VFTW & TI is a totally tasteless site best avoided, IMHO. Being liked by them is about as dubious an “honor” as exists.

    They are like the pot calling the kettle black. Empty souls.

  21. I follow a LOT of Kris fans and absolutely nothing like this came up on my twitter feed from any of them.

    Same for me. The VFTW connection seems more plausible than Kris fans doing something like this. Not to say it isn’t possible, but I just never see anything like this going on on my feed, and I also follow a lot of Kris fans.

  22. Comeback2me, VH1 tapes their countdown shows a week prior. SS was only added to the voting list one week ago today, which is for the show that will air next Saturday. So the fact that SS was strong enough based on spincrease and VH1 rotation to make it to the #21 spot without votes is extremely unusual and it will debut on the countdown next week. Also that VH1 decided to air a portion of an interview for a video that wasn’t even on the countdown is very unusual too. The voting cutoff is Friday night, they stop taking votes then and release the new list for voting on Saturday morning.

  23. Same for me. The VFTW connection seems more plausible than Kris fans doing something like this.

    I can’t pretend I have any clue what the purpose of it is, but it is a VFTW “contest” of some sort, with a small group of people involved.

    I wouldn’t attribute it to any sort of AI fanbase or rivalry, just somewhat twisted sense of values and general ickiness among some of the VFTW posters. Their lovely “contest” seems to be losing steam in any event.

  24. I called them “some Kris Allen fans” because of what I saw when I went to some their Twitter accounts and saw who they were following and read some of their tweets.

    Maybe they are mainly VFTW, the ones I checked just appeared to be Kris fans from what I read on their Twitter accounts. Maybe they are worsters who have a soft spot for Kris like TI does, IDK .

    I didn’t mean it was an organized attempt by a Kris fan base.
    TwigLA, I’m sure you don’t know every Kris fan. I know there are nutty fans of all Idols (Danny included).

    But it makes sense they are probably mostly VFTW.
    Thanks for pointing that out; it actually makes me feel better.

  25. VH1 tapes their countdown shows a week prior. SS was only added to the voting list one week ago today, which is for the show that will air next Saturday. So the fact that SS was strong enough based on spincrease and VH1 rotation to make it to the #21 spot without votes is extremely unusual and it will debut on the countdown next week. Also that VH1 decided to air a portion of an interview for a video that wasn’t even on the countdown is very unusual too. The voting cutoff is Friday night, they stop taking votes then and release the new list for voting on Saturday morning.

    tigervixxxen, thanks for clearing that up. I had no idea that’s the way it works.

  26. Dlynne: 11/27/2010 at 11:15 pm VH1 tapes their countdown shows a week prior. SS was only added to the voting list one week ago today, which is for the show that will air next Saturday. So the fact that SS was strong enough based on spincrease and VH1 rotation to make it to the #21 spot without votes is extremely unusual and it will debut on the countdown next week. Also that VH1 decided to air a portion of an interview for a video that wasn’t even on the countdown is very unusual too. The voting cutoff is Friday night, they stop taking votes then and release the new list for voting on Saturday morning. tigervixxxen, thanks for clearing that up. I had no idea that’s the way it works.

    VH1 does tape the segments between videos a week a head but that doesn’t mean that voting is a week behind. You can tape multiple segments to fit a varity of outcomes. They could have taped multple versions of Lee based onwhether his video made the count down while he was “there” also Lee’s video has been up for voting since Saturday of last week.

  27. tigervixxxen, thanks for clearing that up. I had no idea that’s the way it works.

    Didn’t Kris’ video for TT get added to the countdown list on a Tues or Wed and still make the countdown that same week at #16?

  28. His tweets made me think of Kris, who has to pay the price for Jive not picking the right song. I doubt that anyone at the label will blame themselves for the decision, instead, as Nelly said, they might jump to the conclusion that nobody wants to hear from Kris, but if this was the case, how did LLWD sell 1.5 million copies, and become a top 20 hit on four different charts, and top 10 hit on three charts. Of course, the label will also expect Kris to pay his share for any promotion that they did for The Truth, including making the video, but if he can’t cover his part because there aren’t enough royalties from the song, then that will effect how much money Jive puts towards promoting him in the future.

    The same Jive A&R execs negotiated the deal for LLWD, picked TT for the second single. Seems kind of selective to me that not give them credit for making the LLWD deal but blame them for picking TT. And since I think these are the top selling tracks from the album, maybe they made the right choice. AWM is not exactly leaping up the iTunes or radio airplay charts.

    Expense recoupment is about the entire project — the album and associated singles, not done song by song. Kris got a big advance from Jive, since KATA isn’t likely to recoup expenses, he came out ahead on the deal. Hopefully, Jive believes that Kris has the potential to sell more on his next album and gives him another big advance for the next album.

  29. VH1 Top 20 videos often chart the week they debut…for example:

    IIHY debuted on VH1 on 6/14/10.
    It was on the countdown at #20 on 6/19/10.

    Same thing happened for Adam’s other videos and for Kris and Daughtry.

  30. It is not just when they tape an interview, it is when the host tapes all his intros to the various videos is a week prior is my point. So the voting ends on Friday night and the host tapes all his stand ups at the various NYC locations before the show premieres at 3am Saturday morning? It was that was 2 years ago when David Cook’s videos were on the countdown that all the voting would be done 1 week in advance of the week they were counting toward. We’ll do a test, VH1 removed the Kanye and KOL video for voting this week. We’ll see if they show up on the countdown next week or not. Maybe they retooled since I was watching the countdown closely. We’ll see.

  31. tigervixxxen: 11/28/2010 at 2:51 am It is not just when they tape an interview, it is when the host tapes all his intros to the various videos is a week prior is my point.

    Sorry if I was unclear…that was my point all segments are pretaped and you can tape multiple versions to fit with what ever the countdown ends up being. One for a video just making the countdown, getting into top ten, 2nd or 1st ect…

    If you watch usually the interview segments are in a completely differant location (the hard rock or a know cafe that’s closed for the taping or differant offices) than the segment that are just the host announcing the next video.

    Thw show doesn’t have to be precorded a week ahead of time you just insert appropraite version in.

  32. tripp_ncwy- it was. That why Lee’s single not making the countdown this week is not because it was impossible.

    Q3- AWM needs radioplay in order to sell more(which is true for almost every song) and AWM haven’t went for adds to either radio format, so it would have been shocking if it sped up the charts. imo, there is not really a way to say that TT was the right choice, when it was less radio friendly and I am not even sure if it’s total sales at the moment of choice was higher than AWM’s(do someone have real data about the sales before TT was released?). The label made the right decision with LLWD, but they made the wrong one with TT. And you don’t know that he hasn’t recouped the expanses.

    Lee got 2 adds:
    CHSU-FM Pub 1 Canada-Hot AC Kelowna 19/RMG Astral Media 24 11/26/2010 11:06:00 AM
    CICF-FM Pub 1 Canada-Hot AC Vernon 19/RMG Astral Media 0 11/26/2010 11:08:00 AM

  33. Hopefully, Jive believes that Kris has the potential to sell more on his next album and gives him another big advance for the next album.

    According to the TMZ leak of idol contracts, idols are on an ever increasing scale of advance money earned after the initial album.

    2nd Album (depending on success of first album)
    Winner between $275K – $550K
    Runner-up between $225K – $450K

    Winner 3rd album 325k-650k, 4th 375k-750k, 5th 450k-900k and 6th 500k- 1 mil.

    So Kris will probably get the low end of $275K. So as the Sony excec said these deals are not cheap and are way better than anything any other new artist will receive.

  34. The same Jive A&R execs negotiated the deal for LLWD, picked TT for the second single. Seems kind of selective to me that not give them credit for making the LLWD deal but blame them for picking TT.

    Do you have a link to an article that states that the same person was responsible for picking both songs? Even if the same person was responsible, making one good decision doesn’t mean that they aren’t capable of making one bad decision. There are too many reasons why The Truth was a bad choice, and it doesn’t just have to do with the final result of how poorly the song sold, or how it did on radio.

    After LLWD performed so well on multiple formats, it didn’t make any sense to release a song that was only a good fit for HAC, especially given the fact that just having a song play on HAC would not bring Kris the exposure that he needed.

    Given what Jive knew about the popularity of LLWD, especially with some demographics, it made more sense to release a song that would appeal to the same demos that liked LLWD, which would have helped define Kris’ musical identity, and helped the album.

    Historically, songs like the truth have not done well for new acts, which is why new acts usually release several uptempo songs before they release a ballad.

    Putting Pat on the song, without making sure that his part had meaning, goes along with the theory that some in the industry and some consumers have about AI alums being manufactured artists. The remake should have been a legitimate duet, or not done at all, since as one critic put it, the end result wasn’t about the song, it just screamed that this is what Jive was doing to get airplay. Given that HAC artists are expected to have more credibility than pop artists, doing a remix that doesn’t help establish Kris as a legitimate artist may have hurt his chances to be taken seriously by those who program, play and listen to HAC music. The sacrificed Kris’ reputation in order to capitalize off of Pat Monahan’s name, despite the fact that his name isn’t widely known, and to reap from the popularity of Hey Soul Sister, even though The Truth, being a dirge like song, was not going to be seen in the same light as a song that is as quirky and fun as HSS.

    As far as AWM goes, at the moment there is no sign that Jive is pushing the song, so comparing it to LLWD or even The Truth’s airplay or total sold makes no sense. And bringing up how much The Truth sold is a laugh, considering that AWM sold more after appearing for a few seconds once or twice a week in the Ford commercials, than The Truth sold after a few weeks of airplay.

    Expense recoupment is about the entire project — the album and associated singles, not done song by song. Kris got a big advance from Jive, since KATA isn’t likely to recoup expenses

    So, you know the exact amount of money that Jive spent on the album?

  35. Lee’s album is continuing to drop at iTunes. It’s at #63 this morning.

  36. No one really seems to know when the vh1 top 20 countdown is taped other than the interview and introduction segments are obviously taped in advance of when the voting for the week is closed (how far in advance and what day of the week, who knows). What has become clear over the past year is that 1) the countdown is not solely based on votes, 2) vh1 uses the countdown to promote its featured artists and shows, 3) the week you disappear from the voting list is the week you are off the countdown (eg its not a week in advance), and 4) vh1 likes the keep the countdown moving — gone are the days when a video stays at number one for more than 2-3 weeks in a row, or stays on the countdown for 20 weeks. All of that being said — within the last year Adam, Kris and Daughtry all had videos make the countdown the first week they were put up for voting. So IMO it is not so great that Lee’s SS video did not. But, Vh1 is giving him a lot of promo this month, so they put him in the countdown contenders. And as I said above, SS video will probably get into the countdown next week. If it doesn’t that would really not be good. But I’m sure it will.

  37. And as I said above, SS video will probably get into the countdown next week. If it doesn’t that would really not be good. But I’m sure it will.

    I hope you are right that SS will make the countdown next weekend but the buzz has worn off so it will be a challenge to increase his votes from the previous week. Fantasia has had one of her videos appear in the countdown contenders for a long time and never made it to the chart.

  38. Vh1 is giving him a lot of promo this month,

    This is more important than where or when the song makes the countdown. VH1 didn’t update their playlist on FMQB Friday, but based on how many times I saw SS yesterday, I’d guess that they have upped the number of times that they are airing the video, so it would seem that RCA has worked something out with them to help promote Lee.

  39. This is more important than where or when the song makes the countdown. VH1 didn’t update their playlist on FMQB Friday, but based on how many times I saw SS yesterday, I’d guess that they have upped the number of times that they are airing the video, so it would seem that RCA has worked something out with them to help promote Lee.

    This is true — but I think it does say something that it didn’t make the countdown the first week out like so many other idol videos. And if it doesn’t make the countdown next week for some reason, I think that it is fair to view that as an indication that there is not a lot of enthusiasm for either the video or the song from vh1 and its viewers. As others have said, you can buy all the promotion you want, but if people don’t like/want what you are selling there is only so much you can do. But RCA/19/VH1 are certainly giving Lee a fair shot to make an impact on VH1.

    Just curious — what kind of a bump has SS gotten on itunes this weekend now that the video is out?

  40. FWIW, Adam’s IIHY has now gone 2X platinum in Australia. Both WWFM and IIHY have gone 2X platinum there.

  41. So Adam’s IIHY debuted at 20 and Lee at 21? They played Lee on Jumpstart before the Countdown show & viewers are seeing it; I doubt the typical VH1 viewer cares the way we Idol fans do.
    We don’t know how much the votes count along with all the other factors VH1 uses, but I’m sure Adam got more votes-he has a bigger fanbase than Lee. I voted my little fingers off for both of them, as I am a very devoted fan of both.
    Lee’s album has been going between the low 50’s and the 60’s since yesterday and between 9 & 11 on Pop.

  42. mmb:
    11/28/2010 at 10:43 am
    FWIW, Adam’s IIHY has now gone 2X platinum in Australia. Both WWFM and IIHY have gone 2X platinum there.

    That’s great, Australia has been really receptive to Adam and his music.

  43. Didn’t IIHY debut on VH1 on a Monday then that weekend make #20 on the countdown thought? Hehe or I could be remembering that wrong and it was the Saturday after haha anyone remember?

  44. AT40 HAC from Pulse:

    LW TW Wks Artist – Title
    02 01 (17) Neon Trees – Animal (1st week at #1)
    01 02 (13) Katy Perry – Teenage Dream
    05 03 (08) Bruno Mars – Just The Way You Are
    06 04 (14) OneRepublic – Secrets
    03 05 (22) Daughtry – September
    04 06 (19) Maroon 5 – Misery
    08 07 (11) Taylor Swift – Mine
    09 08 (21) Lifehouse – All In
    07 09 (23) Sara Bareilles – King Of Anything
    13 10 (05) Pink – Raise Your Glass

    24 24 (39) Adam Lambert – Whataya Want From Me

    20 29 (12) Adam Lambert – If I Had You

    31 32 (54) Kris Allen – Live Like We’re Dying

  45. to this point, the additional spins and the video being on VH1 do not seem to have had much impact in terms of sales for SS. It is at #455 on the overall iTunes chart this morning. Hopefully it will jump up the chart if the video gets into the VH1 countdown or if it gets some major radio station adds, but so far, the sales have been pretty meh

  46. Sunday’s Mediabase chart

    HOT AC

    32 31 LEE DEWYZE Sweet Serendipity 475 417 58 1.5

    -2 spins
    -25 bullet
    +0.057 AI

    POP

    112 115 KRIS ALLEN Alright With Me 37 33 4 0.139
    154 119 KRIS ALLEN Heartless 33 15 18 0.261
    269 157 JASON ALDEAN/KELLY CLARKSON Don’t You Wanna Stay 16 4 12 0
    142 256 DAVID ARCHULETA Something ‘Bout Love 5 20 -15 0.017

    LOL – Heartless was dropping, but it’s picked up a decent amount of spins again now — mainly from WSTR, I’m sure

  47. The Vh1 countdown video voting list is posted on Saturday afternoon, the voting ends on Tuesday night and the interviews are taped on Wednesday. If there are enough votes for a new video between Saturday and Tuesday, that video will probably end up near the end of the top 20.

  48. IMO Lee’s single should be compared to other Idol lead singles WWFM and LLWD — not to follow-up songs like IIHY or TT.

    I called VH1 and talked to a producer about the Top 20 earlier in the year. He confirmed that the voting cutoff is on Friday morning, that there is more involved in the ranking than voting, and that airplay is part of the formula. Jim C. from MTV TV also confirmed via Twitter that there is more involved in the ranking than voting but that voting is an important part of the formula.

    smeggingnuts:
    11/28/2010 at 11:41 am

    Didn’t IIHY debut on VH1 on a Monday then that weekend make #20 on the countdown thought? Hehe or I could be remembering that wrong and it was the Saturday after haha anyone remember?

    IIHY was put on the VH1 Top 20 Ballot around 4:45PM ET on 6/14/10 after it premiered. It only had about 4 days of voting before the countdown. But it had a great run on the Countdown…2 time “Leap of the Week”:

    6/14/10 video debuts on VH1

    #1. 6/19/10 #20
    #2. 6/26/10 #10 “Leap of the Week”
    #3. 7/03/10 #1 “Leap of the Week”
    #4. 7/10/10 #1
    #5. 7/17/10 #3
    #6. 7/24/10 #2
    #7. 7/31/10 #4 Short treatment
    #8. 8/7/10 #6 Short treatment
    #9. 8/14/10 #7
    #10. 8/21/10 #6 Short treatment
    #11. 8/28/10 #8
    #12. 9/4/10 #15
    #13. 9/11/10 #17
    #14. 9/18/10 #16
    #15. 9/25/10 #14 Short treatment
    #16. 10/2/10 #10

  49. to this point, the additional spins and the video being on VH1 do not seem to have had much impact in terms of sales for SS. It is at #455 on the overall iTunes chart this morning.

    If they weren’t having an impact, SS would be lower than 455. At this point, SS is selling what it should for a song with an AI of 1.5 on the HAC chart.

    IMO Lee’s single should be compared to other Idol lead singles WWFM and LLWD — not to follow-up songs like IIHY or TT.

    You mean we should compare it to FYE and LLWD.

  50. to this point, the additional spins and the video being on VH1 do not seem to have had much impact in terms of sales for SS. It is at #455 on the overall iTunes chart this morning. Hopefully it will jump up the chart if the video gets into the VH1 countdown or if it gets some major radio station adds, but so far, the sales have been pretty meh

    And on top of it, Lee’s been on a whirlwind of media promotion. SS is pretty much a meh song to begin with. And the video doesn’t exactly show Lee in the best light. It’s evident he’s gain lot of weight which makes him even look shorter.

  51. Lee’s single should be compared to FYE not WWFM. I don’t care if Adam’s fans want to forget its existence. Adam and RCA even call it his first single. Can’t rewrite history. So it should be SS, FYE and LLWD to be correct.

  52. Lee’s single should be compared to FYE not WWFM. I don’t care if Adam’s fans want to forget its existence. Adam and RCA even call it his first single. Can’t rewrite history. So it should be SS, FYE and LLWD to be correct.

    FYE debuted at #16 as the Leap of the Week.

    ETA: That said, the song did not have a typical run since it was pulled from radio so quickly and replaced with WWFM, it makes comparisons kind of pointless.

  53. *

    Lee’s single should be compared to FYE not WWFM. I don’t care if Adam’s fans want to forget its existence. Adam and RCA even call it his first single. Can’t rewrite history. So it should be SS, FYE and LLWD to be correct.

    I certainly don’t want to forget FYE! I love that song! It has sold over 300K in the US alone with virtually no radio play, has been used in many TV promotions and DWTS. Has been a Top 10 hit in several other countries and has gone gold or platinum in several countries. It was Adam’s first single that quickly became obvious was not at good fit for radio and so all promo was switched to WWFM which became a very big international hit. It still did pretty well saleswise, IMO considering how quickly it was pulled. If SS gets pulled for a new single for Lee then the situation may be more comparable if another song does really well. But right now it looks like they are sticking with it so comparisons are difficult. Like I said I love FYE and I am sorry it didn’t work but Adam recovered very well with WWFM. This happens to many artist all the time so no need to rewrite history at all.

  54. I don’t care if Adam’s fans want to forget its existence. Adam and RCA even call it his first single. Can’t rewrite history

    .

    Sigh. I don’t think Adam’s fans want to forget the existence of FYE. Most Adam fans love the song, credit it as the first single (as does Adam and RCA), acknowledge that it flopped at US radio, and are happy that it has done well in some other countries and has had a life outside of radio. But talking about the run of FYE isn’t all that helpful in the context of discussing most single runs because it was pulled so quickly in favor of a different song that got major adds right off the bat. So comparing SS or any other song to FYE just isn’t that illuminating. Since WWFM had a full run and was released concurrently with the album (it was already playing on the radio before the album dropped and was performed for all of the cd tv promo except the AMAs) people tend to conmpare it with other lead singles even though it was a second single.

  55. pineappletree:
    11/28/2010 at 2:34 pm

    Lee’s single should be compared to FYE not WWFM. I don’t care if Adam’s fans want to forget its existence. Adam and RCA even call it his first single. Can’t rewrite history. So it should be SS, FYE and LLWD to be correct.

    I love FYE and never want to forget about its existence but it has nothing to do with SS. The music video was released when Adam was getting massive press, the song was not being promoted to radio when the music video was released, and WWFM was already the promoted single. So that makes no sense as a comparison. And Adam only HAC-oriented single is WWFM.

    Frankly, there is little sense comparing Lee to Adam. Lee won Idol, Adam did not. Adam is focused on Pop, Dance and Theatrical Rock music. Lee is an HAC-oriented artist who release a soft rock album with some pop touches. Etc. The only thing these two artists have in common is that they were both on American Idol.

    But if one is going to compare the relative performance of Adam music video to SS, comparing SS to Adam’s third album single, IIHY, makes no sense.

    But OK — FYE MV was released on 11/24/09 it immediately shot up to #1 on iTunes and stayed in the top 10 for weeks. It debuted at #16.

    Finally, here are the dates…..

    FYE had an impact date of 11/2/09. Music Video debuted on 11/24/09 — after WWFM had gone for ads. And FYE was pulled from VH1 Top 20 to make way for WWFM.

    WWFM had an impact date of 11/22/09. Music Video debuted on 1/15/10.

    ETA: Back to Lee — the is nothing good about an Idol winner’s video not making the VH1 Top 20 in the first week. And it is tough to make lemonade out of it. Hopefully it will do better next week.

  56. You need to compare the 3 LEAD singles not 2 lead singles and 1 2nd single. That is all I am saying.

  57. Q3you were the one that brought the comparisons up. I just questioned the validity.

    Q3:
    11/28/2010 at 1:23 pm

    IMO Lee’s single should be compared to other Idol lead singles WWFM and LLWD — not to follow-up songs like IIHY or TT.

    Q3:
    11/28/2010 at 3:34 pm
    I love FYE and never want to forget about its existence but it has nothing to do with SS. The music video was released when Adam was getting massive press, the song was not being promoted to radio when the music video was released, and WWFM was already the promoted single. So that makes no sense as a comparison. And Adam only HAC-oriented single is WWFM.

    Frankly, there is little sense comparing Lee to Adam. Lee won Idol, Adam did not. Adam is focused on Pop, Dance and Theatrical Rock music. Lee is an HAC-oriented artist who release a soft rock album with some pop touches. Etc. The only thing these two artists have in common is that they were both on American Idol.

    Which way is it? You can’t have it both ways. Also FYE was promoted to radio.

  58. pineappletree:
    11/28/2010 at 3:37 pm

    You need to compare the 3 LEAD singles not 2 lead singles and 1 2nd single. That is all I am saying.

    I still think the best course is not to compare these disparate artists who just happen to have been on the same TV show.

    If you want to compare — I think Cook-Kris-Lee have more in common. All three won Idol, all three released pop-rock/alt rock albums — yes Cook had some post grunge layered in there and the complex Cavallo production, and Kris’ album is more pop-oriented, and Lee has a bit of roots rock buried in there — but similar genre. All three are singer-songwriters. But even this comparison doesn’t really enlighten me very much. Because the success of a recording artist has as much to do with things that go beyond the platform used to achieve fame and the music — personal branding, image, personality, likability, relevancy, live performance ability, and so on all matter.

    A lot of success is being the right artist in the right place at the right time.

  59. Q3-Comparing Lee to Adam pretty much makes the same sense as comparing Kris to Adam.

  60. I don’t want to forget FYE! I love the song, and it is my favorite Adam video.

    Lee will be doing well if SS can sell what FYE has.

    SS is clearly struggling at this point. It will be interesting to see what happens after the holiday freeze—will RCA really push the song, or try something else.

  61. There are some inaccurate numbers posted upthread about Kris’ advance — it is a long comment. Here is the right info:

    The winners of AI get a $350,000 advance. The 19E contract is filed in the State of California. From the NY Times….

    Mr. Allen, last year’s winner, earned an advance of $350,000 for his first album, exclusive of recording costs, half of it paid soon after the competition ended and half when he finished recording.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/arts/television/24idol.html

    The advance for the second album album would be based on Kris’ recording contract with Jive. That is not specified by the 19E contracts.

    Regarding expenses for creating, producing, marketing and distributing KATA — no chance that 320,000 units of a album and about 2.5 million in track sales generated enough royalties and profits to cover a $350,000 advance and recoupable expenses. Only a small percentage of major label albums recoup expenses — <5%. And usually a new artist doesn't hit profitability until the second album. There are exceptions, but they are very rate. Usually a relatively low budget album that sells at a high rate without much US Radio support — SuBo and Bieber are examples.

    Q3you were the one that brought the comparisons up. I just questioned the validity.

    I actually responded to a post that compared SS debuting at #21 to IIHY debuting at #20 — and said that the comparison didn’t make sense to me. But I did not quote the prior comment.

    luly:
    11/28/2010 at 3:57 pm

    Q3-Comparing Lee to Adam pretty much makes the same sense as comparing Kris to Adam.

    ITA! And they have both said the same thing many times.

    I sometimes fall into the trap here because it is so much of the conversation. Idol feeds into it because the artists compete on the show and many fans never stop.

  62. I have never understood the importance to some idol fans of the whole first/lead single issue. Is it somehow “better” or “more important” for the first single to be successful as opposed to any subsequent single? Is WWFM somehow “less than” or tainted because FYE wasn’t successful? Is LLWD somehow less of a success because TT was not successful? I don’t get it. Each single has its own run, in its own time, and are affected by lots of different circumstances. If a song is a success what does it matter whether it was the first, second, or fourth single off of a cd? If a song is a flop what difference does it make if it was the first or second single etc. Why does any of this matter??? IMO it doesn’t, but to some it seems to matter very much.

    I think this whole discussion started simply as a result of some surprise that the SS video didn’t jump right onto the Top 20 countdown as most idol videos do (with the notable exception of Fantasia’s videos). What does that have to do with lead vs. follow up singles?

  63. Because the success of a recording artist has as much to do with things that go beyond the platform used to achieve fame and the music — personal branding, image, personality, likability, relevancy, live performance ability, and so on all matter.

    A lot of success is being the right artist in the right place at the right time.

    You are so right, it’s more than their music and how they got in the business, it’s a number of things that help sell the music and the artist to the buying publc. Artist these days that are successful, try to branch out beyond just being singers or musicians. You see them getting involved in t.v, movies, clothing lines, cosmetics and other ventures. Carrie and Jennifer are two idols that have certainly ventured into other avenues to make money and make themselves a brand.

  64. I have never understood the importance to some idol fans of the whole first/lead single issue. Is it somehow “better” or “more important” for the first single to be successful as opposed to any subsequent single? Is WWFM somehow “less than” or tainted because FYE wasn’t successful? Is LLWD somehow less of a success because TT was not successful? I don’t get it. Each single has its own run, in its own time, and are affected by lots of difference circumstances. If a song is a success what does it matter whether it was the first, second, or fourth single off of a cd? If a song is a flop what difference does it make if it was the first or second single etc. Why does any of this matter??? IMO it doesn’t, but to some it seems to matter very much.

    It seems to be an Idol thing. Few people really seems to care about this outside of the Idol bubble. And even the term “lead album single” is rarely used outside of Idol bloggers and fans.

    In the specific case of FYE — the failure of this single to be a radio hit is often plucked out of all the other Adam accomplishments because it is the most famous case of an Idol alum who went on to a successful recording career having a first single get a tepid response from radio. But it is not rare for a first single to not be a hit and for an artist to be successful.
    (It is also used by a few to try to marginalize Adam’s overall success. But that just looks silly now.)

    Look at Nickie Minaj — her first single was a miss and they pulled it off the album. The released 3 more singles (all hits) to build demand for her album and she will prob sell 400,000 units in the US in week 1. If she was from Idol, there would be a raging debate about the utter failure of “Massive Attack”.

    Some singles make it, most don’t. When a song hits a wall a label releases a new single or decide the project is done.

  65. I was not knocking FYE or Adam. RCA did the right thing switching singles. Jive screwed up with TT as Kris’s 2nd single. It flopped. Not all songs are hits but when comparing you must use comparable data to be accurate. That was my argument. When Q3 was comparing 2 lead singles and 1 2nd single, her results were flawed from the get go.

  66. In the specific case of FYE — the failure of this single to be a radio hit is often plucked out of all the other Adam accomplishments because it is the most famous case of an Idol alum who went on to a successful recording career having a first single get a tepid response from radio. But it is not rare for a first single to not be a hit and for an artist to be successful.
    (It is also used by a few to try to marginalize Adam’s overall success. But that just looks silly now.)

    With SS looking a little shaky, this should be an encouragement to Lee fans that even if SS doesn’t hit (and it is still possible) there is still a chance for a second single doing well. Even so, if SS gets FYE’s numbers at this point it will be doing well.

  67. pineappletree:
    11/28/2010 at 5:04 pm

    I was not knocking FYE or Adam. RCA did the right thing switching singles. Jive screwed up with TT as Kris’s 2nd single. It flopped. Not all songs are hits but when comparing you must use comparable data to be accurate. That was my argument. When Q3 was comparing 2 lead singles and 1 2nd single, her results were flawed from the get go.

    I actually never compared the songs — just said it made more sense to compare SS to WWFM and LLWD. Still does make more to me — but I find the comparisons are not enlightening.

    Lee is on a different path than any other Idol winner. He won on the season Idol wants to forget. He had light promotion. Limited radio support. His album didn’t get great reviews and was actually ignored by many major reviewers. Even his first music video has two intrusive product placements in it. (I guess to keep the net expense budget really low.)

    To make matters worse, Lee released his debut album into the toughest market any Idol ever faced. The #1 US brick and mortar retailer of music, Walmart, has cut most music department to 1 50 foot run with no music endcap. The store that haven’t been remodeled have larger CD assortments but Lee had only 1 facing/slot in many Walmarts this week.

    I do not think this is over, but Lee is up against some really tough odds.

    The nice news is that Lee made well over $1 million this year and he seems like the kind of guy who would put a lot of that in the bank.

    No matter what else happens he will be able to be a profession musician for the rest of his life and he will never have to work in a paint store again.

  68. The nice news is that Lee made well over $1 million this year and he seems like the kind of guy who would a lot of that in the bank

    That does put it in perspective; not bad for a year’s work. I guess I shouldn’t feel sorry for him, even if things don’t go optimally.

  69. I love FYE and never want to forget about its existence but it has nothing to do with SS. The music video was released when Adam was getting massive press, the song was not being promoted to radio when the music video was released, and WWFM was already the promoted single

    Of course FYE was being promoted to radio, that’s how RCA knew to pull it.

    The advance for the second album album would be based on Kris’ recording contract with Jive. That is not specified by the 19E contracts.

    Jive might have a say, but Kris, just like Adam and all of the others, are signed with 19R, and their music is licensed to the Sony labels (now Universal), so obviously those stipulations are in the contract that they have with 19 for a reason. 19 wouldn’t put this information in the contract at all, if it was just the Sony labels responsibility. The info. that was posted isn’t wrong, and the original source isn’t TMZ It comes from a NY Times article, and is based on papers that were filed in a court of law on behalf of the under aged contestants, who competed i the 8th season.

  70. Correct me if I’m wrong (LOL)…isn’t the VH1 20 countdown based on fans voting for the video? I think it should suffice to say Kris and Adam’s fanbase is a bit larger than Lee’s so I don’t know what you were all expecting?? I’m personally voting my “hand” off because I’m a diehard Lee fan and hope his fans voting efforts pay off next Saturday on the countdown.

  71. That does put it in perspective; not bad for a year’s work. I guess I shouldn’t feel sorry for him, even if things don’t go optimally.

    Whenever people write that winning doesn’t matter, they should add the asterisk. According to Forbes, Kris made about $1.7 million last year. He did well this year too — touring income, the Ford deal, etc. Lee does not have the big endorsement deals Kris got, but he won’t starve.

    I never feel sorry for the winners or for any of the Idols who get major label contracts. The really hard path is trying to make it as an indie artist — but the deck is stacked against your before you start to play.

  72. isn’t the VH1 20 countdown based on fans voting for the video?

    its not solely based on fan voting (and the voting part seems to be getting a bit less important as it was in the past)

    the song was not being promoted to radio when the music video was released, and WWFM was already the promoted single

    Of course FYE was being promoted to radio, that’s how RCA knew to pull it.

    i believe the point the poster was trying to make was not that FYE was never promoted to radio (of course it was at first), but that by the time the video was released RCA had already stopped promoting it and had moved on to WWFM, which is true. The FYE video came out after FYE was pulled and WWFM had already starting being played on OHP and had been added by some stations and when Adam was solely performing WWFM on TV (I guess they figured that since the video was already made they would play it for a bit until the WWFM video was made and to support continued sales of the cd and the FYE single, which was selling despite the lack of radio play — its a great video, and it probably did help sales of both the cd and the single.)

  73. sooo… just looking at the charts. looks like David’s HYAMLC went recurrent today. I have no idea of the recurrency rules for xmas songs/ac

  74. I think if Adam had to choose between his first single going platinum in the US and nothing else and his second single going platinum in the US and 2x or 3x Platinum and gold in about 7 other countries, which do you think he would choose?

    I think if you have to compare the male idols they can all be compared because they are played on the same HAC & CHR stations. Until someone gets substantial play on rock radio it does not matter if you think your guy is more rock than the next guy. When you watch the concerts they are all trying to rock. Some can rock harder than others. All of them have songs on their albums that they consider more pop/rock oriented, Kris, Adam, Cook, Daughtry, and Lee. But so far they are all played on the same stations.

    Not a Lee fan but I really hate to see him get beat up before he even has a chance. It has to be tough getting started but he will have to find his own path. Only time will tell if he does. Lets face it, Cook was declared a failure by some because he was not Daughtry. Adam and Kris were declared failures because they were not Cook, Archie or each other.

  75. Elliegrll:

    Q3: The same Jive A&R execs negotiated the deal for LLWD, picked TT for the second single. Seems kind of selective to me that not give them credit for making the LLWD deal but blame them for picking TT.

    Do you have a link to an article that states that the same person was responsible for picking both songs?

    I wrote “The same Jive A&R execs” — not a reference to a single executive but to the A&R team who works with Kris at Jive. That is what A&R does.

    Elliegrll: Of course FYE was being promoted to radio, that’s how RCA knew to pull it.

    Please read my comment, at the time that FYE music video was released, RCA was not promoting FYE to radio. RCA switched to WWFM over a week before WWFM was released.

    And they never pulled FYE. It is still available to radio stations to add.

    Elliegrll: Jive might have a say, but Kris, just like Adam and all of the others, are signed with 19R, and their music is licensed to the Sony labels (now Universal), so obviously those stipulations are in the contract that they have with 19 for a reason.

    Not sure what this has to do with my post — I have a copy of the 19E contract and what TMZ printed is missing all of the terms and is not accurate. There are provisions that allow the amount of the subsequent advances to be modified outside of these ranges. Only the first album advance is guaranteed to the winner, and only the amounts of the first album advances are specified in the contract.

    In any case, if Jive doesn’t exercise their option for a second album with Kris, there is no second album under the 19R agreement. If Jive exercises the options, 19E has to pay Kris a minimum of $275,000 plus whatever amount 19 has added to that in their agreement with Sony. 19R has only put out 1 independent album and that was years ago. For Kris album #2 is all up to Jive.

  76. Not a Lee fan but I really hate to see him get beat up before he even has a chance. It has to be tough getting started but he will have to find his own path. Only time will tell if he does. Lets face it, Cook was declared a failure by some because he was not Daughtry. Adam and Kris were declared failures because they were not Cook, Archie or each other.

    Isn’t that the truth!!

    I take back what I said about not comparing Idol!! I was wrong!

    If you are a Lee fan and concerned — go back a look at this site one year ago. Last November, Adam was declared dead — first because he didn’t have a radio hit, then because of AMA FYE performance, then because he wasn’t doing enough Jingle Balls. He hasn’t made it yet but he is on his way.

    Cook was declared dead and irrelevant so many times that it is impossible to count. He made $2.2 million last year. Could I be so dead!

    And Kris’ coffin nails where being sharpened before he even released his album single. NoBo “only” sold 310,000 copies — Kris << Cook.

    I even recall Carrie being labeled a "disappointment" one some Idol sites because she failed to match Kelly's numbers. Here debut album went on to be 7X Platinum — the last album to do that in the US.

    But if I know anything, this business is about longevity, not a quick win. Better to be a professional musician and performer for 20 years than be a one-hit-wonder who is the answer to a trivia question. I do not know what will happen for Lee, but I do not hear a fat lady singing!

    NOTE: I do not share the opinions listed above — I just search this site for the word failure — and grabbed some samples.

  77. Again, I have a feeling Jive has already committed to that 2nd album for Kris, since he’s talked constantly about going into the studio to start recording early next year and wants to have the album out ASAP. To me, that seems like they have given him the go-ahead. He was one of their top sellers in terms of albums + singles this past year, so unless they are just going to get rid of the 90+% of their roster that has sold less than Kris over the past year or so and totally start over, there is no real reason why he wouldn’t get a 2nd album

  78. As for Lee, I don’t see RCA dropping him quickly. They’ll do whatever they were planning to do to promote the album and the 1st single, and they’ll probably give him a 2nd single off the album (with less promotion) and then go from there. But even if he does get dropped, I think he would get signed by an indie label without too much trouble. His career is far from DOA — the expectations just need to be dialed back (but that’s true for pretty much anyone connected to AI these days)

  79. In any case, if Jive doesn’t exercise their option for a second album with Kris, there is no second album under the 19R agreement. If Jive exercises the options, 19E has to pay Kris a minimum of $275,000 plus whatever amount 19 has added to that in their agreement with Sony. 19R has only put out 1 independent album and that was years ago. For Kris album #2 is all up to Jive.

    While it doesn’t surprise me that you have a copy of the contract, anymore than it’s not a surprise that you would contact VH1, the terms of the contract still deal with the artist’s relationship with Jive and the Sony labels. As much as people don’t want to admit it, these people are signed with 19R, that’s their label, and so given the terms of the contract, they have a say in how much the artists make for each album. Jive, or any of the other Sony labels, deciding whether or not there will be an album number 2 doesn’t seem to change the fact that 19R has a say in how big or small the advance will be.

  80. I agree Ellie, I’m never surprised about the information Q3 has at her fingertips. And LOL to the calling VH1 on the voting…. thank god someone did it! :-)

    If I had a dime for every time the question “what determines the VH1 ranking” was asked, I’d be a rich individual. So glad we have people here who can get answers and informatin and contribute so wonderfully to all our wondering, worrying, squeeing, angsting, stanning, etc.!!!

    Q3, I appreciate your facts and thoughts on all these issues. I’ve learned so much from you and other on this site. Thank you all!

  81. If Nicki Minaj had come off Idol, anyone who called her first single/album a flop would have a mob coming after them explaining why it wasn’t a flop….yadda, yadda.

    Idols have a crapload of fans who think their lives depend on the success/failure of people off a kareoke TV show. Makes it kind of hard to look at their careers objectively. ;)

    Honestly, Lee’s is horrible shape right now. Although I did get a laugh out of comparing his situation to Carrie competing with Kelly Clarkson. for #1 Idol. Or Cook not selling 5 million albums. Sorry, Lee’s career is in a whole other place than those folk.

  82. Is it usual that 18 months after an Idol Finale, so many are still obsessed with concerned about interested in the winner’s label contract and career? LOL.

  83. I guess it’s now also OK to call Adam’s first single a flop as well. Usually a big argument starts about whether it was really his first single, yadda, yadda. ;)

  84. Is it usual that 18 months after an Idol Finale, so many are still obsessed with concerned about interested in the winner’s label contract and career? LOL.

    I don’t know about it being usual or not and I don’t really care about Kris as a performer. Still, I can’t deny that I find all the information about contracts and first and second albums fascinating no matter the Idol.

    So, thanks Q3 and everyone else who offers their insight!

  85. His career is far from DOA — the expectations just need to be dialed back (but that’s true for pretty much anyone connected to AI these days)

    I agree. And with the exception of a select few, this is true for every other artist related to Idol or not.

  86. I don’t know about it being usual or not and I don’t really care about Kris as a performer. Still, I can’t deny that I find all the information about contracts and first and second albums fascinating no matter the Idol.

    So, thanks Q3 and everyone else who offers their insight!

    IKR, I appreciate Q3 at least she brings over information so we can all look and determine for ourselves instead of wishing guessing what we would like the situation to be.

  87. ….the terms of the contract still deal with the artist’s relationship with Jive and the Sony labels. As much as people don’t want to admit it, these people are signed with 19R, that’s their label, and so given the terms of the contract, they have a say in how much the artists make for each album. Jive, or any of the other Sony labels, deciding whether or not there will be an album number 2 doesn’t seem to change the fact that 19R has a say in how big or small the advance will be.

    What does 19R’s establishment of advance ranges have to do with anything? You really have lost me.

    According to the CKx SEC filings 19R doesn’t pay any advance without receiving the money from Sony. It is in their Prospectus, 10K and 8K filings. 19R is a shell company that existed to siphon royalties to 19 and Simon Cowel (AKA SYCO) for seasons AI5-AI9.

    While it doesn’t surprise me that you have a copy of the contract, anymore than it’s not a surprise that you would contact VH1,…

    I have the 19E contract for reasons that do not involved Kris or Adam — and since it is a public record, it can be discussed here.

    Regarding calling VH1 — I did it when some Adam fans were claiming that Kris fans used computer voting bots to trick VH1. I call VH1 because I was convinced Kris fans didn’t trick the system and to convince Adam fans not to use the same technique. To be fair, the Kris fans copied it from the Archie fans who copied it from the ….. In other words, there was nothing new there.

    Girlygirl: Again, I have a feeling Jive has already committed to that 2nd album for Kris, since he’s talked constantly about going into the studio to start recording early next year and wants to have the album out ASAP. To me, that seems like they have given him the go-ahead. He was one of their top sellers in terms of albums + singles this past year, so unless they are just going to get rid of the 90+% of their roster that has sold less than Kris over the past year or so and totally start over, there is no real reason why he wouldn’t get a 2nd album

    They might have — I just have not seen anything from Jive that indicates that they have. And in a recent RCA/Jive press statement they mentioned continuing to support 14 AI artists but only referred to upcoming albums from Kelly, David Cook and Adam.

    Many people on the Jive roster did not sell as much as Kris but who else got a $375K advance, had the writers and producers they lined up for Kris, and got the kind of promotional support and marketing Kris received. Jordin didn’t even seem to have the saem budget Kris got. And Archie certainly didn’t — he got almost no radio promo. The challenge for Kris is he won Idol and Jive has to pay 19 another large advance to have Kris do album #2.

    For album #2, on a modest budget Jive has to be willing to invest $1.2+ million (including the advances). Since Jordin and Archie had sales issues on their second albums after having strong debut albums, Jive might think twice. (But this is a thoughtless business sometimes.)

    If Jive doesn’t exercise their option on Kris #2, I think he will get another major label deal. And frankly, if I was thinking about the best financial deal for Kris, I would hope Jive drops him, Universal signs him (no 19R underlying contract) and he starts with no carry forward expenses from KATA. Plus, since Kris is managed by 19M and Universal is the new Idol label, he would be in better shape to get promoted on AI10. But that is my little dream world!

    It all reminds me of that old expression — be careful what you wish for. After how Jive treated Archie’s and Jordin’s #2 albums, I do not think that having Jive as your label is such a good thing. Both of these artist had the capacity to release gold albums — versus what they did.

    Am I bitter about how Jive treated Archie — you bet. He didn’t even have a shot.

  88. Am I bitter about how Jive treated Archie — you bet. He didn’t even have a shot.

    IA, Archie who actually made money for Jive.

  89. jpfan:
    11/28/2010 at 10:22 pm
    If Nicki Minaj had come off Idol, anyone who called her first single/album a flop would have a mob coming after them explaining why it wasn’t a flop….yadda, yadda.

    Idols have a crapload of fans who think their lives depend on the success/failure of people off a kareoke TV show. Makes it kind of hard to look at their careers objectively. ;)

    Honestly, Lee’s is horrible shape right now. Although I did get a laugh out of comparing his situation to Carrie competing with Kelly Clarkson. for #1 Idol. Or Cook not selling 5 million albums.

    The whole thing does make you want to laugh sometimes.

  90. jpfan:
    11/28/2010 at 10:22 pm

    I guess it’s now also OK to call Adam’s first single a flop as well. Usually a big argument starts about whether it was really his first single, yadda, yadda. ;)

    IMO no, FYE is not a “flop”. Rehashing the tiresome subject of FYE one more time…

    FYE firstalbum single = yes. First song promoted to radio = yes. Rejected by US radio = yep! Flop = no!!

    In the US, FYE is the #48 selling Idol single ever — and still selling. So if FYE is a flop does that mean that there are only 30, or 40 hits from Idol alums ever? Is everything that is not platinum a flop? What is a hit?

    And how is this a flop?

    US Billboard Hot 100 #61
    U.S. Billboard Hot Dance Club Songs #5
    Canada Hot 100 #23 Platinum
    Finland #5
    New Zealand #10 Gold
    Australia #32
    UK #37
    Japan Hot 100 #1

    Is it a flop because it didn’t get airplay? Does getting tons of airplay and not selling a lot more than FYE (Daughtry September for example) make something a big hit?

    I guess I need someone to define flop to me. Because I will agree that FYE was not as big a hit as I expected but it does not look like a flop to me. And although I am glad that RCA released WWFM quickly, I still wonder if they have released WWFM first and FYE second if FYE might have been able to get more adds and more airplay.

  91. Fullmoon:
    11/28/2010 at 10:41 pm

    Am I bitter about how Jive treated Archie — you bet. He didn’t even have a shot.

    IA, Archie who actually made money for Jive.

    I think he will get another album from Jive because he has two albums that should be profitable. The nice thing about a Christmas album is that is will continue to sell year after year and has low costs. Add that to his first album and Archie is probably in very good shape with Jive. Just like Jordin did well enough on her first album to survive the low sales on her second album. Jordin has a third album with Jive in the works, I bet Archie will be back in the studio next year on his next album too. Hopefully, his new management team can help him with positioning and personal branding.

  92. They might have — I just have not seen anything from Jive that indicates that they have. And in a recent RCA/Jive press statement they mentioned continuing to support 14 AI artists but only referred to upcoming albums from Kelly, David Cook and Adam.

    I assumed they only mentioned Kelly, Cook and Adam specifically, because they are releasing a new album in the Spring/Summer of 2011. I am guessing Kris second album will be out next fall.

  93. Jive didn’t come out with anything official saying Jordin was working on album #3 that I have seen. Jordin announced she was meeting with label management and in the studio on twitter.

  94. I assumed they only mentioned Kelly, Cook and Adam specifically, because they are releasing a new album in the Spring/Summer of 2011. I am guessing Kris second album will be out next fall.

    Could be — that timing makes more sense than Kris being in the studio in Dec-January and releasing an album this Spring. Don’t know where that rumor started because even Kris said he hoped to be back in the studio in the Spring in two interviews.

    But I still haven’t seen anything but fan assumptions and vague statements from Kris. I will wait for something tangible until I believe it to be a done deal. Not saying it will not happen, just saying it is not a fact yet.

    Cook will have been 2-1/2 years between releases, Daughtry was 201/2 year. Carrie is on a 2 year cycle. Jordin was 20 months between albums. Adam pushed his album back to Summer 2011 and is not working on it until he is done touring (thank goodness sanity reigns — finally). So he’ll end up close to 20 months.

  95. IKR, I appreciate Q3 at least she brings over information so we can all look and determine for ourselves instead of wishing guessing what we would like the situation to be.

    I guess that would depend on your comfort level as to the accuracy of the information from any poster here.

  96. I think FYE served it’s purpose. The video was #1 for a while so it was clearly liked. It did well in a few countries that it was released. $300,000 plus sales with airplay for only a short period of time. If it had the amount and time and airplay that TT and September had it would have gone gold I believe. But it was replaced with another that did better so can’t complain.

    What I wish for though will never happen. And that is that all the idol releases would get a couple a months airplay to see if they sell and if the people want to hear it. TT and September got that chance but AWM,SS, FYE, and Archies songs not so much. Though there is still a chance for AWM and SS. We shall see.

  97. tripp_ncwy:
    11/28/2010 at 11:22 pm

    Jive didn’t come out with anything official saying Jordin was working on album #3 that I have seen. Jordin announced she was meeting with label management and in the studio on twitter.

    Battlefield (album) sold over 600,000 worldwide and continues to sell (sales as of 4/10 per Billboard). Battlefield has sold over 1.5 million in the US and more in other countries. Jive did fine on this album that US Idol fans label a “flop”.

    Jive A&R has been working on her third album for a while and trying to get her to release something early in 2011. Jordin says she wants more time. But if Jive has there way, there will be a third album.

    Even Archie’s album is being promoted internationally and may do better there than in the US.

    The US market is just a part of the world market — and a shrinking part.

  98. I guess that would depend on your comfort level as to the accuracy of the information from any poster here.

    Usually Q3 brings in links and names the source where her information is coming from. One can easily look up the source given themselves.

  99. Eileen99:
    11/28/2010 at 11:30 pm

    IKR, I appreciate Q3 at least she brings over information so we can all look and determine for ourselves instead of wishing guessing what we would like the situation to be.

    I guess that would depend on your comfort level as to the accuracy of the information from any poster here.

    ITA — that applies to posts here or anywhere. I try to only post info with reference or links, but occasionally there is no way to do that. And some of the information people link to is just some random tweet or some indie record producer’s blog (often trashing major labels are explaining the joys of indie contracts) or a post by a fan on another blog site or an examiner.com report — in other words not really a source. So merely providing a link does not make information reliable.

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