American Idol 12 Hollywood Rounds – New Details!

Straight from the Valley Performance Arts Center in Northridge, CA, here’s your latest American Idol 12 Hollywood Round update!

The guys finished their rounds Thursday with a solo performance with the band. The ranks were narrowed down from 43 guys who survived the group rounds, to 28.  Those boys will be cut down to 20 on Sunday (They WON’T perform before this cut).

Read More:

American Idol 12 Hollywood Week Spoilers – Manufactured Groups and More!
American Idol 12 Spoilers – The Hollywood Rounds Begin Today!

There were a total of 16 groups that competed on Wednesday.

Correction: Here is a partial list of the 43 guys who competed in the Solo Rounds on Thursday

Adam Sanders
Johnny Keyser (Top 60 AI11)
Gabe Brown
Matheus Fernandes (Glee Project, Season 1)
Chris Watson
Mark LaDuke
WIll White
Peter  (guy wearing turbin)
Christian Lopez (cut today during narrowing down to 20-30 male contestants)
Cortez Shaw
David Leathers Jr. (Top 40 AI 12)
Devin Velez
Elijah Liu
Josh Holiday
Nate Tao
Nick Boddington
Paul Jolley
“Papa Peaches”
John Jada (female impersonator)
Bryant Tadeo
Curtis Finch Jr.
Devan Jones
Mathenee Treco
Charles Allen
Joel Wayman
Jimmy Smith

Watch for MAJOR DRAMZ from a group called Oz, featuring Adam Sanders, Frankie Ford, Charles Roach and Papa Peaches –

The girls arrived in Los Angeles yesterday, and will compete in a capella, group, and solo rounds. The Top 20 boys and the Top 20 girls will head to Vegas on Monday for the next phase of the competition.  There are 230 girls competing for a total of  347 hopefuls (Yes, there ARE more girls).

None of the 28 guys who remain are guys who perform with guitars.  Watch for a heavy dose of R&B and country.

On Thursay, Nicki Minaj was late. By the time she arrived, 12 contestants had already performed. Nicki has the potential to be the break-out judge. She has flair and isn’t afraid to be honest. Some of her critiques are Simon Cowell-esque. Oh, and Jimmy Iovine was in the house on Thursday for the solo rounds!

Here are contestants to keep an eye on. They had cameras following them around and had great critiques and audience response (also they survived Thursday’s round. 28 will be cut to 20 on Sunday)

1. Gabe Brown
2. Adam Sanders – Phenomenal vocals
3. Johnny Keyser
4. David Leathers – His vocal pitch has dropped quite a bit since last year.
5. Paul Jolley
6. Matheus Fernandes – He’s the little dude from The Glee Project season 1.  Matheus and Gabe Brown are roommates.

 

 

  • SullyD

    This Nick Boddington is the same guy who was in the HW group with Jen Hirsh and Reed Grimm and was cut during the LV round (I remember Jen was pretty pissed about that, lol). I liked him last year, glad he tried out again.

  • ptebwwong

    Yes! No WGWG’s are through. Hoping this will finally be a season where a female singer wins.

    However, I’m not sure I like there’s many R&B & country singers.

  • blackberryharvest

    None of the 28 guys who remain are guys who perform with guitars.

    Well there ya go people! Happy now? Lol.

  • elliegrll

    Nick Boddington did show a lot of promise during the Vegas episode.  I thought that he was better than some other people in his group.

  • http://twitter.com/bluinjewin Landon Cox

    I suggested they just stop casting WGWG last year like they did with TAR

  • gem2477

    Not letting the Idolpad spoil now, MJ? Careful. You may get into trouble with the producers.

  • LeahKittyS

    Bu what about Dylan Arms? He’s portrayed as a white guy with guitar, and according to The Idol Pad, he hasn’t been cut yet.
    Also, we can’t assume the rock star WGWG is always what America wants. Otherwise Paul McDonald would have won Season 10. Instead he was the first man to get the boot. Scotty is in a completely different category from the other four.

  • girlygirltoo

    Who knows whether any of those guys will pull out guitars once they make it to the semi-finals or finals, though? Considering the success P2 has had, I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t advance any WGWG types.

  • ptebwwong

    I guess it depends who you consider a WGWG. I never considered Scotty a WGWG. The majority of male country artists play guitars. I would never say Keith Urban, Brad Paisley, Jason Aldean, Garth Brooks, etc. are all WGWG’s.

  • irockhard

    Heavy dose of R&B and country? Blech! There better be some rock representation among the girls then (and I mean rockers not white girls with guitars), or this season’s not gonna hold my interest for very long.

  • mikaylaislove

    “Here is the list of guys who competed in the Group Rounds on Wednesday”

    Please clarify for me someone. 43 guys survived the group rounds and 28 of those guys survived the solo round thursday. So therefore the list of 26 guys above is just a partial list of the guys who competed int he group rounds right?

  • irockhard

    Paul McDonald a rock star? Really? Not IMO.

  • blackberryharvest

    I don’t think it necessarily means that ALL of the boys are R&B/Country-just that a lot of them are. There could be some male rockers still.

  • SullyD

    Is this the Dylan Arms you’re talking about? http://www2.sceneon7.com/entertainment/2012/oct/19/dylan-arms-performs-for-your-carolina-69929-vi-148184/

    If it is, we’re totally doomed (again), lol.

  • blackberryharvest

    Dylan was cut.

  • girlygirltoo

    Paul wasn’t really a rock star type. 

  • LeahKittyS

    Of course he’s not hard rock in the vein of Daughtry and David Cook, but he’s light, folk, indie-rock. His album with the Grand Magnolias is listed under “Rock” on iTunes.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    Adam Sanders is a flamboyant hoot, jsut like that guy from X-Factor this year that I already forgot the name. lol. Look up his videos on YT- it’s half comedy/ half OTT theatrical singing. He won’t last more than 3 weeks on the live shows.

  • LeahKittyS

    Really? Wow, a shock elimination and the season hasn’t even started yet!

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    Considering the success P2 has had, I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t advance any WGWG types.

    I dunno… from Interscope’s POV, there might be some logic to discouraging a situation in which two consecutive years’ winners are superficially similar. It’s not like guitar-driven rock is the dominant genre today, so that it’s necessary to do that in order to get radio play. If your S10, S11, and S12 winners are all different genres, they have different A&R teams, different radio trajectories, and different marketing plans. That could help with the “Idol fatigue” that seems to have started at radio circa 2009.

    Obviously, nothing’s guaranteed and the sophomore slump has always existed… but it might be a tad harder for radio to dismiss P2’s sophomore album singles as “last year’s flavor” if the subsequent winner isn’t competing with him for HAC radio play, but is going after R&B instead. 

  • http://twitter.com/desireechick Kesia Monteith

    I thought I was the only one confused.

  • Sara M

    I am a BIG fan of Cortez Shaw! He is the smooth modern r&b guy the show has been lacking since like season 4.

  • irockhard

    LOL neither Daughtry nor Cook are hard rock.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    “None of the 28 guys who remain are guys who perform with guitars.”

    Actually, Johnny Keyser is learning how to pretend to play the guitar.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6CKrT_CiTY

  • Sara M

    I think these guys listed performed in the group round, which means they were one of around 60, which means there are still like 35 people who were in that round who we don’t know. 

  • Sara M

    But that could mean he isn’t one of the 28 that remain.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    Indeed. But I think it’s EXTREMELY hard to reunite 28 male singers who doesn’t know how to play a guitar. lol. They may didn’t play it yet.

  • irockhard

    I’m gonna have to agree with Eilonwy on this one. Interscope hit a home run in AAA with P2, it’s in their best interest if they they hit home runs in other formats, which requires the winners to differ each other. Likewise it would be best for the franchise too. Since WGWGs are too addicitve, best they not be included at all. I wonder if Iovine layed down the law with Nigel and Ken.

  • blackberryharvest

    Anybody can hold a guitar and “pretend” to play. He appears to be using it as a prop. He is a piano player.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    That’s what i said…

  • LeahKittyS

    Well, they’re the closest thing to hard rock American Idol has to offer.

  • Anny_nanny

    Country? R&B? Nicki? Boddington, Leathers & Keyser?
    Something tells me this and will be X-Factor’s season 3. Simon dies of envy.
    *popcorn*
    Sorry!

  • irockhard

    No, James Durbin is.

  • LeahKittyS

    Yes, and I loved him on the show and I have some of his songs. But I can’t count him until he gets a legitimate hit. I still hear Daughtry and Cook on the mainstream radio; I never hear Durbin.

  • Montavilla

    Adam Sanders is a flamboyant hoot, jsut like that guy from X-Factor this year that I already forgot the name. lol. Look up his videos on YT- it’s half comedy/ half OTT theatrical singing. He won’t last more than 3 weeks on the live shows.

    Um.  There’s a country singer (young, plays guitar, wears a cross around his neck) named Adam Sanders that comes up when I type that name into the YouTube search engine. 

    Is that who you’re talking about?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RdlDPTXTTw

  • Sara M
  • SullyD

    No, I thought so too when MJ first spoiled his name, but it’s the guy she linked on this post (thank goodness).

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro
  • irockhard

    Just like metal hard rock is not mainstream, not anymore while metal never was. Nowadays hard rock and metal are lumped together. Hard rock and metal acts get nominated for the same awards on mainstream award shows like the Grammies. Hard rock and metal acts tour together and play on the same bill at festivals.

    James got airplay on Active Rock radio, that’s the format that plays hard rock and metal.

    James was named one the 100 Greatest Living Rock Stars by Revolver Magazine, that is the most authoritive hard rock and metal publication in the US.

    James was nominated for best vocalist at this year’s Golden God Awards, that award show only honours hard rock and metal acts.

    James toured with hard rock and metal acts (Buckcherry, Drowning Pool, Evanescence and Steel Panther).

    James performed at festivals that only have hard rock and metal acts on the bill, including Rock on the Range which is the biggest festival of that kind in the US.

    James is the only legit hard rock artist to come out of Idol, and the hard rock world recognizes him as such. Getting a hit on mainstream radio means nothing, they don’t make the rules where this genre is concerned.

  • Anny_nanny

    The problem is that Jimmy doesn’t know what to do with girls-finalists. Someone needs a example?

  • Montavilla

    Thanks, Leandro and Sara M!

    The Adam Sanders I found reminded me to an alarming degree of Scotty.  This Adam Sanders reminds me more of Nathaniel Marshall.  He’s got a lot of emotion and drama, along with humor, in his style.  Nathaniel created a lot of drama in his group rounds, but he did make it through to the semi-final.  We’ll see if Adam can make it, too.

  • blackberryharvest

    The Chris Watson on that list is the same Chris Watson from Season 7. Randy, Paula, and Simon all liked him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2xjPZ2Z970

     

  • LeahKittyS

    Wow…that’s incredible. I had no idea. That actually gives me a lot of hope. Thanks, irockhard! (Not being sarcastic in the slightest.)

  • LeahKittyS

    Ooh…he’s cute. I think only a bad song or a bad cold could do him in once the live rounds start.

  • LeahKittyS

    Ooh…he’s cute. I think only a bad song or a bad cold could do him in once the live rounds start.

  • mikaylaislove

    Ok great, thanks. I just didn’t want that list to be from the final 28 since I’m not a fan of any of those guys…

  • irockhard

    It’s all good :)

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    We have problem that Jimmy doesn’t know what to do with girls-finalists. Someone needs a example?

    This is true, so far. But I’d draw a distinction between “has Iovine done well with the gals so far?” (no) and “does Iovine seem interested in learning?” (possibly).

    I think Iovine came to Idol with the belief that RCA had been fragmented, confused, and under-involved, whereas he could show ‘em and make a star of anybody he chose to make a star of. S10 demonstrated otherwise. Even McCreery, the success of the season, has said in interviews that he needs a break-out single to really have a solid career.

    In S11, Iovine gave P2 a much more radio-friendly coronation song than McCreery got, and it paid off in radio play (P2’s album may never sell as much as McCreery’s, but it’s more niche in sound, and Home has sold so well that the financials for the project should look pretty good by now). In S11, Iovine also was in less of a rush to sign people, which is hard on the contestants but does suggest he’s choosing his targets more carefully. While we’re still waiting on a Sanchez album, the up side is that he hasn’t rushed out a confection of teen pop for her, so there’s still some possibility of a well-planned launch for a solid album. 

    So there are signs that Iovine has realized this Idol stuff is hard work. I’d like to think that could pay off in his having a viable plan for a female winner this time around.

  • irockhard

    Yeah maybe. Though it would great to finally have a badass rocker chick on the show who will rock as hard as James did. But with how the voting goes I’m not sure how long she’ll last, unless she has a massive backstory.

  • Montavilla

    Great post!  I will say that, although Haley didn’t do great on her album, it was encouraging that she was able to put out something that wasn’t completely cookie-cutter and thrown out quick for the holiday sales.  

    Jimmy is a smart guy.  At least he tries to think things through and really help these Idol kids.  I have a lot of respect for him for letting James go to a label that would appreciate him.  

  • irockhard

    I hold this view as well. Paul was the S10 WGWG, James was the rock star and Scotty was the cute inoffensive country guy from the south. Three totally different things the way I see it.

  • blackberryharvest

    Check out videos of Taisha Bethea-she is like a Haley Williams(Paramore) type chick.

  • irockhard

    I concur.

  • girlygirltoo

    Allison was a bad ass rocker chick in S8 and she only made it to 4th place. So I don’t know if a rocker chick could actually win this show. 

  • irockhard

    I’m not usually one to check out spoilers but I’ll keep her in mind. Those are usually the type of female rockers that The Voice casts. Not my fave type of rock but still a refreshing change for Idol so I’ll tune in for that. Now the question is, will AI let her rock and will the viewers vote for her?

  • irockhard

    I’m gonna have to disagree about Allison. I didn’t find her very convincing as a rocker. She was like Jennel Garcia for me where she had the enthusiasm but no edge. She’s no Taylor Momsen and Momsen is about the same age. That’s JMO of course, but she had the voice for it unlike Jennel, so I’ll put her above Jennel based on that.

  • Anny_nanny

    I see that many people want to r&b-urban-girl-winner, but Jimmy already has Jessica and I don’t see the album or work on the album. Jessica should not write songs, like Haley, she should not learning to sing, she was to come into studio and record the finished song. She had to have at least one of the single to the expectation of the album and is learning to communicate with journalists and get a radio tour.
    And I see that Jimmy has no one songs for Jessica. I don’t understand why she has been awarded the contract for the album, not on development. I see Melanie 2.0. Or Pia 2.0. I want to be mistaken, Jessica is a good girl.

    I want Crystal 2.0 in this season – with such a voice, with such personality, but a little bit more confident and aware of yourself. And with teeth when you need to bite my head off. We can ask for a little bit of Scotty and Phillip?

  • SullyD

    Allison was amazing. Amanda Overmyer was pretty badass too. I’ll never forget the day she made fun of Simon (or Paula?) for suggesting a ballad for her, heh.

  • irockhard

    Amanda, now we’re getting closer to a badass rocker, pity she left so early. I’ve heard her post Idol album and it’s good, and real rock too not watered down pop rock. Carly is also a pretty badass rocker, too bad we had to wait till after she was off the show to find out about it. I’m interested in the new band Sioban’s going to front.

  • Larc

    Maybe the WGWGs are being smart and leaving their guitars at home until they make it to the finals.

  • LeahKittyS

    I loved Carly, Allison, and Siobhan! I have We Are The Fallen and Allison’s debut albums, and I saw Allison and Siobhan on tour. I’m a singer and I’d love to make that kind of music myself, but I’m an alto and my voice isn’t raspy at all. Closer to Brooke, or maybe Crystal.

  • fantoo1

    They probably check the style of music they play also.

  • irockhard

    Jason Brock.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    None of the 28 guys who remain are guys who perform with guitars. 

    And when the audience figures that out, the ratings will plunge into nothingness. LOL

  • mjsbigblog

    Not one guy who played guitar survived, white or otherwise.

  • getaway1

    Jimmy Iovine’s success has been the last 2 winners. And he already has the guys that he wants in Country and AAA. But the problem is that he hasn’t been successful with the female Idols. So maybe Season 12 will end up with a male urban, R&B guy.  That’s a pairing that hasn’t been widely represented on Idol.

  • fantoo1

    And when the audience figures that out, the ratings will plunge into nothingness. LOL

    But didn’t people also say the ratings would go down if they kept casting them? I guess they can’t win.

    Besides, we have Keith as our WGWG.

    There really is no way of knowing whether the audience tunes in because of the WGWG.

  • Karen C

    But didn’t people also say the ratings would go down if they kept casting them? I guess they can’t win.

    I don’t think they would, though, especially after Phillip has been successful.   I think that a large part of the audience prefers this type of singer, and it’s the genre that they like and not actually if they play guitar. 

    Besides, we have Keith as our WGWG.

    But he won’t be playing more than a couple of times on the show. 

    There really is no way of knowing whether the audience tunes in because of the WGWG.

    It depends on if people are looking for a certain genre, or if they just like the format of the show.  Again, I think the reason that we have had winners of a certain type has more to do with genre. It also has a lot to do with creativity with the arrangements.

    Having said all this, though it might be best if the show has a different type of winner this year, because it is negatively affecting the ones that did win, even those that did well afterwards.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5HGXDY5SA4QJRME7OQJXRJYE4M James M.

    None of the 28 guys who remain are guys who perform with guitars.  Watch for a heavy dose of R&B and country.

    Me likey. R&B and country are among my favorite genres.

    The group could still use a heavy rocker/really dramatic singer, closer to the lines of Whole Lotta Love Adam Lambert, Paint It Black Siobhan Magnus, or You’ve Got Another Thing Comin’ James Durbin. Someone heavy. Someone really dramatic. Some hard rock in a really haunting minor key.

    My ideal contestant would probably be someone with an interesting combination of rock stylings like Muse, Rise Against, Dream Theater, Dropkick Murphys (and their Celtic rock), and 30 Seconds To Mars with a dab of influence from Judas Priest, Metallica, Black Sabbath, The Beatles, Janis Joplin, Queen, and Iron Maiden. Someone with a lot of style and substance. But, at the same time, they can still pull off a straight-up Mariah Carey or Sara Evans cover or even rearrange one of her songs to fulfill their genre. Melt my face off one week with a heavy rock song from Metallica, lull me into a powerful Mariah ballad the next week.

    You know how horrible this type of contestant would do.

    You know, the kind of person who could wear red contact lenses, spit fake blood, and have flames shooting out like a demon while pulling off a very well-sung Panic Attack by Dream Theater, but is just as likely to make me mushy goo by singing the song Music Box by Mariah Carey.

  • http://twitter.com/KariannHart Kariann Hart

    I think on the Season 9 tour Siobhan proved she could rock.  Many were surprised.  I am also anxious to see how she’ll be doing with her band.  I want this girl to succeed!

  • http://twitter.com/KariannHart Kariann Hart

    WOW, James!  What a description!  With some good singers appearing on some of the other shows, Idol must present the best possible.  They need a R&B female singer who can wail and mesmerize.

  • irockhard

    I would add hardcore punk to the mix as well.

    I would die if Idol had a female contestant like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmkHqUwa4zg

  • Karen C

    My ideal contestant would probably be someone with an interesting combination of rock stylings like Muse, Rise Against, Dream Theater, Dropkick Murphys (and their Celtic rock), and 30 Seconds To Mars with a dab of influence from Judas Priest, Metallica, Black Sabbath, The Beatles, Janis Joplin, Queen, and Iron Maiden. Someone with a lot of style and substance. But, at the same time, they can still pull off a straight-up Mariah Carey or Sara Evans cover or even rearrange one of her songs to fulfill their genre. Melt my face off one week with a heavy rock song from Metallica, lull me into a powerful Mariah ballad the next week.

    We already had someone like this.  His name was David Cook.  And he was and still is awesome.

  • Incipit

    We already had someone like this.  His name was David Cook.  And he was and still is awesome.

    He does everything you asked for – From Muse (Stockholme Syndrome) to completely rearranging Mariah (Always Be My Baby), from Temple of the Dog (Hunger Strike), Alice in Chains (Man in the Box), Led Zeppelin and Van Halen ( Rock & Roll, Hot for Teacher) to Dolly at her most Celtic (Little Sparrow) or ALW at his most theatrical (Music of the Night). 

    The Beatles (Eleanor Rigby, Day Tripper, 8 Days a Week)- juxtaposed with RadioHead and Rolling Stones – four albums full of post grunge rock and an Indie Album that still holds up…Analog Heart – that he was willing to give away free. There are 29 covers on the list of songs DC has done at one or more of his shows – and the versatility spans every kind of rock.

    The same voice that sang “Chris Cornell’s arrangement of “Billie Jean” sings    KingsX “Dogman” and Goodbye to the Girl, or acoustic “Fade Into Me”, completely unplugged, in a crowded theater – or that acapella bit of Lie – –  covers the Cars “Drive,” or freakin’ Adele – flat out kills the National Anthem every time – and delivered the incredibly powerful, poignant song, “Permanent”  at the Season 8 Finale – had his song “Heroes” all over every sport that TV broadcasts for two seasons, even Olympic downhill skiing – wrote Circadian and REM as bookends to the instrumentally dense concept album TLM – and turned around and delivered a re-arranged acoustic version of half of the songs on TQN.

    And see, it doesn’t matter to the Labels –  neither would the same skills attached to your theoretical female rocker – “Versatile Vocally” isn’t as easy for them to handle as someone who stays in their Box. 

    Also, it took DC ten years of hard work, writing, gigging and playing regional tours, hours and hours and hours in front of audiences of all kinds – to know who he was as an artist – and to bring that confidence and believability on stage – so that the TV audience never doubted the words coming out of his mouth.

    Idol doesn’t cast for experience any more – not life experience, and not musical experience. They have this ‘we can mold them’ theory – except – it doesn’t work – and although there are people who think the TV audience just keeps trying and failing to recreate the feel-good vibe of Season 7 with whoever TPTB cast – I think it more likely that there is and has always been a good sized Idol  audience for rock music – and they will be drawn to the artists who rock, in some fashion, at least… and I have no problem if that artist is a woman.

    But TPTB doesn’t like to cast women, they don’t even cast men – not in a field where 24 is ‘old’ – the judges make pretty sure the audience knows the girls they cast are not to be considered serious contenders…and it has forgotten how to cast females for talent first anyway, going for the ‘pretteh’. So as long as we have sixteen to 18 yr olds w/small musicality and even less life experience singing songs we can see they don’t quite ‘get’ – and don’t know how to rearrange so we can see them from another angle – – that theoretical female rocker doesn’t stand any more of a chance than David Cook Redux. IMO. Of Course.

  • irockhard

    I think Interscope has some influence in Idol casting younger contestants.

    The truth is with pop and even rock, the labels like to start with youngsters – late teens/early 20s because the demo they want to sell music to is also young. I think Sony went into this with “let’s just make a quick buck and if anything else sticks, great” mentality while with UMG they’re looking for someone who they can ideally mold into a long term success.

    The pop industry is obsessed with youth, we need look no further than someone like Madonna who spends millions on plastic surgery and hooks up with toy boys to stay relevant. With rock the road to the top is a long one so if the act doesn’t have a large following the label prefers said act to be young. It’s too late for Vino Alan to start at the bottom of the rock n roll ladder, he’s too old. Country is the only genre where age doesn’t really matter, albiet I’ve noticed that’s only the case for the male artists.

  • SullyD

    I’m ok with early 20s, people from 20 to 25 years old. The problem is that they are focusing to much on 16-year-old kids and most of them are too naive and scared to stand up for themselves.
    Kelly and Carrie were 20/21 years old when they tried out, I think this is a better age than 15/16.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    But TPTB doesn’t like to cast women, they don’t even like to cast men
    anymore – not in a field where 24 is ‘old’ – the judges make pretty sure
    the audience knows the girls they cast are not to be considered serious
    contenders…and it has forgotten how to cast females for talent first
    anyway, going for the ‘pretteh’. So as long as we have sixteen to 18 yr
    olds w/small musicality and even less life experience singing songs we
    can see they don’t quite ‘get’ – and don’t know how to rearrange so we
    can see them from another angle – – that theoretical female rocker
    doesn’t stand any more of a chance than David Cook Redux. IMO. Of
    Course.

    I will disagree with this somewhat. They HAVE casted females that were not there for their youth or looks – I love Crystal Bowersox and think she’s adorable, but was she really in possession of dewey model-like looks? Was Elise? Was Erica? We’ve seen a parade of women who sang well, were singer songwriters, played instruments, did great re-arrangements, possessed musicality etc over the past 5 years (Brooke, Crystal, Skylar, Elise, Lilly, Didi, etc). Some of them young and/or quite pretty, some were even pimped, at least in the beginning. But after a while, the audience didn’t bite and TPTB lost interest… bottom line ultimately the audience didn’t send them on to victory. So yes TPTB doesn’t *always* give women enough credit for being musicians(and I HATE that), but honestly male contestants have blown past TPTB manipulations in the last 5 years. That never seems to happen for the females.

    This show has always cast a wide variety of singers in age, experience and genre. I’m not mad at the young ones nor do I blame them for the results, or the TPTB for casting them. People like what they like and more experienced contestants have been in the mix.

  • irockhard

    Scotty would be an exception, he stood up to Iovine (along with Casey and James) on Top 8 week.

    I thought Jessica did a great arrangement and interpretation of Beyonce’s Sweet Dreams, but notice that this is a “current” artist and song.

    I think the overused and dated song book does the very young contestants a diservice. There’s no reason for them to be familiar with the music of Billy Joel or Carol King.

    BTW AI this overused and dated song book is what created the demo you now have. Peeps under 40 don’t want to listen to music from the 50s-80s.

  • getaway1

    Bottom line, whoever wins has to give their greatest performance – on ITunes, in the stores, etc. Jimmy Iovine has already said that should be the expectation for the AI winner – to sell records.  The pressure is on.  Because they will be compared.

  • Incipit

    Tinawina – didn’t say TPTB didn’t cast women – I said they didn’t like to. And they don’t.

     We’ve seen a parade of women who sang well, were singer songwriters, played instruments, did great re-arrangements, possessed musicality etc over the past 5 years (Brooke, Crystal, Skylar, Elise, Lilly, Didi, etc). 

    I won’t quibble with your list – since it’s subjective – I will ask if you have examples of the judges giving credit for the re-arrangements of anyone but maybe Crystal – you didn’t list Carly Smithson – and yet her re-arrangements were the most glaring omission. (“Come Together”) Siobhan did THOTRS a capella for the whole first verse – Cowell ignored it, and continued to dismiss it even when Ryan called him on it. i could go on and on – but I won’t. TPTB doesn’t always give enough credit for artistry? I read it as Seldom gives ANY.

    The judges manipulations and the edits around female contestants remind me of Obi Wan – “these are not the Droids you are looking for” it’s pretty slick, when it isn’t in your face “Happy Feet”. – So I think the order of events is reversed – it wasn’t that TPTB lost interest – they convinced susceptible audience members to believe the judges – and the judges have never been equitable, unbiased, or truthful – no matter who on which panel you name. And some degree of misogyny is built in to TPTB, like five inch heels, I’m not sure the older dudes are even aware of it.

    The inbalance in who is voting for whom pretty much assures that male contestants have a better chance of overcoming the manipulations – that’s understood – what I can’t stomach is why the manipulation in the first place? 

    The hamsters don’t cast themselves – blaming them for being chosen would be a tad illogical. But TPTB do cast the show – so when they throw a token “Old Person” or two in their mid 20’s in the mix like there used to be a Token Teenager – who was “ONLY 16! – and then proceed to minimize the experienced people each week – I don’t know who else I would point at for not being interested in these inexperienced youngsters they are trying to sell me.  They make for boring shows, with no unexpected moments. IMO. Of Course.

  • irockhard

    I think when it comes to teens, unless Jimmy is convinced that they have the next Bieber, they shouldn’t be putting anyone through who’s younger than 18. Age group should be 18-26.

  • Karen C

    And see, it doesn’t matter to the Labels – neither would the same skills attached to your theoretical female rocker – “Versatile Vocally” isn’t as easy for them to handle as someone who stays in their Box.

    Interesting statement.   I’ve always thought that the reason DC did so well on the show is because he is versatile vocally, but this might be why there seems to be such a difference between what type of artist he really is and what kind the label wanted him to be.  I feel that even though he mainly did alt rock on Idol, and much of his own music is also alt rock, because TOML was so successful, that is what the label wanted him to continue, with a softer rock.   But the fans that had followed him mostly want to hear him do alt rock. That’s why Light On was his most successful single after Idol, because it is closest to the alt rock he did on the show.

    Where with Phillip, he isn’t as versatile, so they couldn’t put him “outside his box”. He pretty much had to stay in a similar style to that of his original music, because he didn’t have the versatility that others have had.  The good part about it is that if people like the style of music he does, and will follow  him afterwards.

  • Karen C

    I will ask if you have examples of the judges giving credit for the re-arrangements of anyone but maybe Crystal – you didn’t list Carly Smithson – and yet her re-arrangements were the most glaring omission. (“Come Together”) Siobhan did THOTRS a capella for the whole first verse – Cowell ignored it, and continued to dismiss it even when Ryan called him on it. i could go on and on – but I won’t. TPTB doesn’t always give the females enough credit for artistry? I read it as Seldom gives ANY.

    I think Elise is another example, because she did some interesting rearrangements.  I thought it was because the females seem to lose their confidence, but it probably is because they aren’t getting as much credit for their artistry. Seems like a mixed message sometimes.

    The other problem is that what would fit into pop for females currently in most cases wouldn’t be what we would see on the show, even more so than the males.

  • Incipit

    Exactly Karen C The skillset it (nominally) took to win Idol in Season 7, 8 and 9  – vocal versatility – was not the same as the skillset that worked for the radio PTB, who like a predictable Box. Kind of schizoid.

    Season 10,11, and probably 12 have no interest in versatility…the winners could stay in their narrow lanes so far, and no one penalized them for it…they were rewarded. Great for radio – predictable music – but not so interesting for the audience as the previous Era was.  I don’t think it will last beyond the coming season – it’s already a tug of war now between what viewers want to hear on TV and what Labels want to put on the albums. IMO.

  • getaway1

    I don’t think it will last beyond the coming season

    It will last as long as it keeps producing winners who have hit records.  Something that neither The Voice nor X-Factor have been able to do.  AI had one of it’s biggest songs this past season, which they are using to promote Season 12. 

    Season 10,11, and probably 12 have no interest in versatility…the winners could stay in their narrow lanes so far

    Maybe that’s why Scotty McCreery and Phil Phillips have had better post Idol careers than Kris Allen and Lee Dewyze.   The former were allowed to make music that represented them.

  • irockhard

    Iovine wants the winners to sell not flop, so as long as he’s in the picture the new system stays.

  • irockhard

    Another reason that strategy made them more successful:

    By staying in their lanes they built a buying audience for their music. They made the albums their fans knew they would so their fans actually bought their music.

  • Incipit

    So you and getaway feel sure that the Label ‘s concerns have trumped the TV show’s ratings concerns, irockhard? That’s always been the schizoid nature of Idol – ratings vs album sales…but I wonder how FOX regards that – since they have taken a more active interest in their Cash Cow….and ratings matter more to them.  

    I was hoping they could find a balance, for purely selfish reasons, so the performances could be interesting again – but I suppose the show can shed some more viewers before it matters to the label – and some bean counter, somewhere, knows what that threshold is. 

    The pattern of three year cycles has held for eleven years, so far – it will be different, just by virtue of breaking the pattern, if the show’s structure does not continue to evolve in three year eras – But we have to wait until 2014 to see what happens. That’s OK. I have practice at pretending to be patient. Heh. 

  • irockhard

    I was hoping they could find a balance, for purely selfish reasons, so the performances could be interesting again

    What viewers find interesting and is completely subjective.

    Me personally I’m into hard rock and heavy metal so I like OTT dramatic vocals and OTT theatrical staging. And I like it when songs are arranged to sound louder and heavier. I like lots of screaming, electric guitars that are loud as f*ck and pyro. In all 11 seasons only one contestant gave me all that. I found James very interesting, entertaining and exciting and for me no else even comes close. He always kept me on toes, I never knew what he was going to do each week. One week he debuted a genre that had never been done of the show before, another it was setting a piano on fire, another an honest to goodness shredder accompanying him, and another an elaborate costume a marching drumline. I like contestants that will do new stuff on the show that no else before them ever did – that’s what I find interesting. But this is JMO.

  • getaway1

    The ratings drop isn’t necessarily because the performances aren’t interesting. And whether they are or are not is based on personal preferences and biases. The show has been on 11 seasons. It’s never going to be as original as the earlier seasons.  It is also now competing with a flood of other singing shows. Yet with all this competition, it says something about AI’s staying power in what it has been able to still achieve in the marketplace. I would think that Fox was very happy to see the promos of the success of its recent winners. Bragging rights it doesn’t have with The X-Factor and that NBC does not have with The Voice.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    I will ask if you have examples of the judges giving credit for the re-arrangements of anyone but maybe Crystal 

    Well, in addition to Crystal (in the beginning anyway) they definitely did for Brooke White, for Lilly in season 9, were quite complimentary to Skylar… but it doesn’t matter in any case, because I agree with you that TPTB tend not to give many women the “artist” edit and I agree that it’s outrageous. I’m just not sure that’s the reason a rock girl won’t win. My point was that we have had many examples of musicianship and artistry displayed by women on that stage over the last 5 years so. The audience didn’t need TPTB to telegraph Kris Allen’s artistry did they? The producers barely acknowleged his existence.  And Lee was a “who?” compared to Andrew Garcia his year. Yeah Simon liked him but many candidates Simon liked have bit the dust before. Yes TPTB should treat the women much better, but I don’t think that’s the biggest part of the story.

    As far as the last 2 years being “young pretty and moldable” as opposed to “developed talent” heavy, well I will disagree a bit. 1. Some of these women cast were young and/or attractive, but were they really not in possession of fleshed out musicality? I mean look back at the top 24 in season 10. Haley Reinhart has plenty of musicality. Remember that Julie girl they pimped before the start of T24? She was gorgeous, but they also made it known she was a songwriter and showed her accompanying herself on piano. Naimia didn’t know who she was? Her rearrangements were not pointed out? She did not get a fair amount of screentime and a favorable edit pre-top 24? You can’t even say they haven’t pimped women period. Lauren Alaina was BY FAR the most pimped contestant going into top 24 in season 10.

    I would also say Jen Hirsh was 1.the most pimped female in last year’s top 24 and 2. one of the few women who got a “musician” -type edit. She was billed as the super creative jazzy singer who lived and breathed music. Then there was Elise, Erica and Skylar. Did TPTB do everything they could have done for them? Nope. I agree Elise and Skylar especially deserved to get the “artist” tag as much as Phillip and Colton. Yes I find it infuriating that they didn’t. But I’m not convinced it would have mattered in the end.

  • Incipit

    Nice answers, but they are not answers to the question I was asking.

    Of course ‘interesting’ is subjective – that’s the “purely selfish reasons” – but the three year cycles and the pattern of each era – those are not subjective. They are observable and have been written about in a few places. Both of you seemed to be convinced that the ‘stay in your box’ approach for the contestants that was favored in Season 10 is derived from Interscope – and think it will last beyond the end of this cycle…Season 12.

    My question was – does that mean you think Interscope’s interest in abandoning the versatile vocals for a single lane so that they can capitalize on the winner’s album more easily is at odds with Idol the TV Show’s interest in ratings from controversial or unexpected performances, or the odd themes that pushed people out of their comfort zones? And, since FOX has lately become more ‘hands on’ – do you see them being concerned with ratings and viewers to the extent that they will initiate changes that mess with the predictability of the Interscope approach? 

    The TV show and the Record Label has always had two disparate goals – but during the season the show had been about the ratings/viewers because of the interest in the contestants – and what they will do next. Now it’s about laying a foundation for the post season album sales, for a winner most people have already figured out. Whether this can be proven to be a factor that impacts on viewer numbers or not, I see that you think Iovine is the special interest with the upper hand? But the question is – what will FOX do about the viewers/ratings – and the lack of suspense about who will win?

  • Karen C

    Maybe that’s why Scotty McCreery and Phil Phillips have had better post Idol careers than Kris Allen and Lee Dewyze. The former were not pushed into something that did not represent their artistry.

    I think both Kris and Lee showed who they were as artists while they were on the show, though they did show a little more versatility than we’ve seen the past couple of years. I think what has has helped Scotty and Phillip post idol is they had winners singles that were in their genre, that really gave them momentum when their albums came out.

  • getaway1

    I don’t see how bringing the show back to the supposedly versatile seasons when Taylor Hicks, Kris Allen, Lee Dewyze won will help the franchise. Hicks and Dewyze never even got 2nd albums. Allen and Dewyze have respectively, the poorest selling CD’s of all the winners.  If anything, it’s Scotty and Phil that help turn things around after Season 8 & 9.  In as far as the lack of suspense of who is going to win.  Carrie Underwood was probably one of the most predicted winners of all time.

  • fantoo1

    I laugh at those who say the next season will be idols last. People have been saying that for years and idol still gets great ratings compared to other shows.

  • Incipit

    Did someone on this thread say that? I must have missed it.

  • getaway1

    So true.  And every year, it’s the worse winner, worse season ever, etc.  But I am willing to bet that those auditioning for Season 12 aspire to have the success of Scotty McCreery and Phil Phillips, not Javier Colon and Jermaine Paul from The Voice.

  • Incipit

    getaway, I think we are not talking from the same premise – I’m talking about the three year cycles that Idol runs in, not the last eleven years as a chunk… and right now, they are in Cycle Four – although, tbh, this season I thought for a minute someone on the casting crew was also nostalgic for the Diva voices from the first Cycle. 
    But Idol won’t really go backwards, and I never suggested that they should, they can’t go back to the era of Seasons 7,8 and 9 – they didn’t pick hamsters with those skillsets, or life experience. For better or for worse, they are in a cycle right now where artists stay in their own lane –  which may be great for the eventual winner and their label – not so great for the entertainment of the audience at home. 

    I can see from the answers that I am not phrasing the question well enough – but I’ll try one last time. Iovine may be happy with how things are for his Label, but Idol and FOX has to do something to intrigue the audience and keep their attention, keep them tuned in  – it has to be something interesting, and it better not just be the judges faux fighting.That only leaves the new cast of hamsters – and if they mess with them too much – it will mess with Iovine’s nice system for making money on the albums by having the contestant stick to their own lane. Idol doesn’t change strategies easily – they usually react about a year behind the curve.So what happens next? Or does nothing much happen til Season 14?

    (Which is what I think) 

    Quoting myself, because I’m shameless like that.

    The pattern of three year cycles has held for eleven years, so far – it will be different, just by virtue of breaking the pattern, if the show’s structure does not continue to evolve in three year eras – But we have to wait until 2014 to see what happens. That’s OK. I have practice at pretending to be patient. Heh. 

  • getaway1

    For better or for worse, they are in a cycle right now where artists stay in their own lane – which may be great for the eventual winner and their label – not so great for the entertainment of the audience at home.

    It must be working for the majority.  Because it’s majority of the viewers that decides the winner.  And no winner will please everyone. I’m sure there are those who think David Archuleta should have won.

  • http://twitter.com/newbornstarr Wally.

    Jimmy Smith is totally going to win. 

  • Incipit

    It must be working for the majority. Because it’s majority of the viewers that decides the winner. 

    Well, no, they don’t, getaway. The majority of Votes decide the winner – the majority of viewers don’t even vote – and the majority of people who do vote don’t Power Vote. That’s the Idol voting system – which pithes everyone off because it doesn’t actually have to have anything to do with the majority of viewers.

    The assumption that it must be working runs into the fact that Idol is losing viewers, and so is every other TV show… and although there can be many  factors contributing to that – it’s not a fact the Bean Counters are likely ignoring.

    Of course no winner will please everyone – did someone say they would? Neither will every season, or every cast – but if enough people in the ad demographic Idol is chasing are displeased – there’s a problem. When TPTB have to adjust advertising fees downward and give credits – they bloody well notice that, even if the audience does not. And that already happened once.

    But I may as well just get some popcorn and sit back for this season and watch what happens next – since I’m not even making the question clear – *snerk* @ myself.

  • getaway1

    the majority of viewers don’t even vote – and the majority of people who do vote don’t Power Vote. That’s the Idol voting system

    That’s always been the voting system, even in seasons that supposedly showed more versatility. If the majority of the viewers don’t vote even vote, that’s their decision.  Like it’s just the right of the power voters to support their favorites.

  • girlygirltoo

    Idol is going into its 12th season. I can’t think of too many shows that have run that long that see their ratings go up (or that many shows that have run for 12 seasons, full stop). Viewer fatigue tends sets in after that many years on the air, no matter how interesting or strong a show may be. I don’t expect Idol to rebound in the ratings this season, although it could happen if some sort of huge buzz surrounds the show. But I do expect it to continue to get better ratings than XF and The Voice, and I think FOX will be happy with that, as long as the ratings don’t drop too drastically.

  • girlygirltoo

    The main reason I think Scotty have been more successful than Lee and Kris is that Interscope has been far more invested in promoting the winner and getting him songs that represent who he is as an artist than Sony was in the last few years it had this contract. As long as Interscope continues to do this, the winner will have a good chance to be commercially successful. If Interscope loses interest, then the winner will be in trouble.

  • blackberryharvest

    I also think Scotty was wildly popular during his season.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GIRFMNI2ELGND3HUAJV7KXZGUQ Bobo Arcjoe

    Scotty was the most popular dude all through his season out of the gate.

  • blackberryharvest

    I think it was because you said “I don’t think it will last beyond the coming season.” Its easy to misinterpret that I think.

  • Incipit

    I think it was because you said “I don’t think it will last beyond the coming season.” Its easy to misinterpret that I think.

    OK, blackberryharvest, I see where the confusion arose – my bad – I did not make myself clear enough – I was talking about TPTB ‘stay-in-your-lane’  approach lasting beyond the present three show arc –  not ‘Idol the Show’. 

    “Failure to Communicate”.