Billboard – 01/29/11

There are approximately 24, 376 Billboard Charts (give or take). The following is an Idol summary of a few of these charts. If I happen to miss your favourite “Hot 100 Songs Covered by Idol” chart, feel free to post a summary of that chart in the comments section.

Kelly’s duet with Jason reaches a new peak on the Hot 100 and Hot 100 Airplay charts.

UMG, Idol’s new label, is expected to have layoffs today. Billboard

Billboard is launching a new chart. The Uncharted Chart. It’s for new up-and-coming artists. Here is the chart methodology:

The Uncharted ranking is based on Billboard’s own Heat Score, a formula of online exposure incorporating streamed plays, page views and fans according to MySpace Music as well as sources tracked by online aggregator Next Big Sound, including YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Last.fm, ReverbNation, SoundCloud, iLike and Wikipedia among others. Uncharted will capture 50 artists across various genres of music (i.e. Country, Rock, R&B/Hip-Hop, Latin, etc) who must be registered MySpace Music artists and have not previously appeared on specifically outlined Billboard charts (more than 80 overall) in order to be eligible.

Article Chart

This is the daily numbers’ thread. How can I just let you walk away, just let you leave without a trace? Post!

BB200
54 Crystal Bowersox “Farmer’s Daughter” (lw 47; peak: 28; wo 5) wo=weeks on
106 Carrie Underwood “Play On” (lw 103; peak 1; wo 63)
122 Lee DeWyze “Live it Up” (lw 147; peak 19; wo 9)
141 Fantasia “Back To Me” (lw 124; peak 2 ; wo 21)
175 Daughtry “Leave This Town (179; peak 1; wo 75)

Hot 100
43 Jason Aldean With Kelly Clarkson “Don’t You Wanna Stay” (lw 49; peak 43; wo 11)
63 Carrie Underwood “Mama’s Song” (lw 58; peak 56; wo 17)

Hot 100 Airplay
36 Carrie Underwood “Mama’s Song” (lw 32; peak 32; wo 17)
69 Fantasia “I’m Doin’ Me” (lw 63; peak 60; wo 10)
59 Jason Aldean With Kelly Clarkson “Don’t You Wanna Stay” (59; peak 73; wo 2)

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Kirsten has had a long love affair with numbers. Marry that with her love of cheese and the Numbers Threads at MJs were born.

190 Comments

  1. Have there been any hints from Lee’s camp about what the next single would be? I see the Pop date is still listed at AA for this coming Tuesday, but … I think it’s time to move on.

    I’m not seeing an add date on AA for Jennifer’s new song – she would be releasing to the Urban formats only, or others as well?

    Still love the Jason/Kelly duet!

  2. Have there been any hints from Lee’s camp about what the next single would be? I see the Pop date is still listed at AA for this coming Tuesday, but … I think it’s time to move on.

    I’m not prepared to call it yet, but last year it seemed like this the last two weeks in January was when a lot of PDs stopped playing a lot o the songs that they were playing before the freeze, and started pushing new songs. There are a lot of songs from established artists that either have passed SS, or are about to pass it, but the song still has its bullet. It would be nice to know what type of reception its getting from listeners.

  3. Paris’s audition gave Temporary Home a temporary boost all the way up to #102 on the all songs chart at i-Tunes. TH is at #103 now and #16 on the i-Tunes country chart. Thanks Paris!

  4. I’m not prepared to call it yet, but last year it seemed like this the last two weeks in January was when a lot of PDs stopped playing a lot o the songs that they were playing before the freeze, and started pushing new songs.

    That may be be true, but I’m just not seeing new spins at the big auto-adder stations showing up this week. The spins at San Diego & Dallas are border-line as to whether or not SS will have enough spins through Saturday night to get the adds Monday, which is the same scenario as last week. In other words, those stations aren’t increasing spins, they’re still hovering around a spin or less a day. A lot of the early stations who picked up the songs up are starting to reduce spins. We’ll see what happens Monday/Tuesday. I’m ready to move on, though; I think it’s done. It’s a tough path to Top 20 now, I really don’t think it’s going to get there, and I’m pretty much a wait & see person, too.

    I think Lee should use the new promo appearances to introduce a new single.

  5. I can see RCA trying to give Lee & SS one last HAC push to try to get it moving. Lee has had a lot of press the past couple of days and performance Sunday. I am not so sold on the Top 40. If after a couple more weeks, things are not improving, RCA just may move on to single #2 and try to get him an early AI peformance slot prior to the finale to launch the new single.

  6. In other words, those stations aren’t increasing spins, they’re still hovering around a spin or less a day. A lot of the early stations who picked up the songs up are starting to reduce spins.

    This is what I was referring to. Last year around this time is when PDs seemed to be deciding whether or not to increase the spins for or drop songs that they added in September-November, so we should know in the newt week or two, or are starting to see, whether or not SS will make it. I agree that right now it doesn’t look promising, especially the the lack of test spins or new adds. I honestly thought the song would do well.

    I wonder if it was the song, the lack of buzz around Lee, the problems with season 9, or something else that has lead to PDs not plying it.

  7. I wonder if it was the song, the lack of buzz around Lee, the problems with season 9, or something else that has lead to PDs not plying it.

    All of the above.

  8. I wonder if it was the song, the lack of buzz around Lee, the problems with season 9, or something else that has lead to PDs not plying it.

    Probably all of the above. He needs a song that is just undeniable right now to push past all the bad buzz, and while SS is nice, it may not be strong enough.

    I wish we had some solid indication of the listener feedback this has been getting. That said, there just isn’t anything to go on to say that it has been good. The stations that have been spinning it haven’t really moved it to high rotations in large numbers, it didn’t fly up the Vh1 countdown, its sales have not been particularly high for its AI… it just seems to be floating out there right now. I don’t think it even got a high Rate The Music score, and that thing is mega spamable.

  9. Sending Lee’s single for add to pop right now is a long shot, but maybe RCA managed somehow to get adds there form the big market(although the lack of big adds on HAC makes that pretty unlikely).
    Has RCA shown big support of Lee’s single?

  10. Rate the Music according to AA:

    8 Lee DeWyze Sweet Serendipity 3.75[Pop(fam)] 72[fam] 13[burn]

    I don’t follow RTM closely, so I don’t know if this is good or not.

  11. He needs a song that is just undeniable right now to push past all the bad buzz, and while SS is nice, it may not be strong enough.

    You are right about needing a song to push past the bad buzz, and probably right about SS not being that song. But, I can’t help but wonder if this would be different if they had sent SS to Pop at the same time that they sent it to HAC. Sadly, while I think the rest of the album represents Lee’s style, I don’t think he has another song that is radio friendly enough to win over PDs, and make them look past the failure of SS.

    Beating a dead horse, but this is why it ticks me off that 19, Jive and Kris didn’t do enough to use the popularity of LLWD to change the story that was surrounding Kris. Having a hit isn’t guaranteed, so everyone involved should have done all that they could to transfer some of that song’s popularity to Kris.

  12. Probably all of the above. He needs a song that is just undeniable right now to push past all the bad buzz, and while SS is nice, it may not be strong enough.

    I wish we had some solid indication of the listener feedback this has been getting. That said, there just isn’t anything to go on to say that it has been good. The stations that have been spinning it haven’t really moved it to high rotations in large numbers, it didn’t fly up the Vh1 countdown, its sales have not been particularly high for its AI… it just seems to be floating out there right now. I don’t think it even got a high Rate The Music score, and that thing is mega spamable.

    I looked at HAC chart today and honestly, it looks more and more like CHR chart.

    If you want to get anywhere on the radio today, you really need a song that is “hot” and “undeniable”. I’m not sure Lee has anything on his album that would fit this description.

  13. I looked at HAC chart today and honestly, it looks more and more like CHR chart.

    Well, HAC draws on the pop chart mostly, so that’s predictable, but it is still a place where a catchy pop/rock song can do well for itself. But it can’t be meh if the person is new or otherwise not very established IMO. His first song had to be a very strong HAC song. Perhaps he has other candidates on the album in the event this one doesn’t work out? His fans, I’m sure, have opinions on that.

    But, I can’t help but wonder if this would be different if they had sent SS to Pop at the same time that they sent it to HAC.

    I don’t think so. It was not gonna get anywhere on pop last fall, I think.

    I don’t follow RTM closely, so I don’t know if this is good or not.

    That’s not bad at all! Maybe there is a reason to hope for this song after all. :)

  14. I’d love to know what the behind-the-scenes story is with WPLJ & KBIG on this song, because I think it’s good enough of an HAC song to have been picked up. So maybe there is some S9 Idol backlash going on & the PDs are making some sort of statement. LOL this is all purely speculation (which is what we do here, ha), but I do find it interesting Lee’s lead single didn’t get support in these two important markets. Would love to know the real story, maybe it’ll be in Kirsten’s tell-all book coming to a bookstore near you.

  15. I’m not sure how they could do this. What story are you referring to? And how should it have been changed? I’m not sure how they could have used LLWD differently to change (guessing here) what you believe was a bad story surrounding Kris?

    It was clear that Kris had a smaller AI fan base than previous idols, a lack of name recognition, and that he was going to have trouble getting mainstream attention, so when LLWD took off after January 2010, his management, which is 19M, should have done everything in their power to connect him with that song.

    And that’s all I’m going to say on the subject, since we’ve been over this before.

  16. Beating a dead horse, but this is why it ticks me off that 19, Jive and Kris didn’t do enough to use the popularity of LLWD to change the story that was surrounding Kris. Having a hit isn’t guaranteed, so everyone involved should have done all that they could to transfer some of that song’s popularity to Kris.

    You made it sound like Kris is the first one hit wonder. Imagine if The Script never gave that song to Kris, what then?

  17. Eileen99:
    01/21/2011 at 12:02 pm
    Oh lord, praying we don’t get into a S8 discussion again.

    You’re right.. I don’t usually dive into S8 discussions, so I think I’ll edit my post.

  18. So maybe there is some S9 Idol backlash going on & the PDs are making some sort of statement.

    PDs seem to have different rules for AI alums. I wonder if the idea that SS is just LLWD on crack (as Jim Cantiello called it), is hurting the song. Alums have to deal with being labeled manufactured artists, so I can see PDs turning away from the song if they see it as a song that was given to Lee, not because it represents his style, but because it is a copy of a song that was successful.

    I know that Lee co-wrote the song, I’m just saying that this might be how PDs see it.

  19. I’m just saying that this might be how PDs see it.

    Whenever an “idol” song is not spun on the radio the fan sentiment is always that the PDs have a vendetta against idol and that the song would be successful if it didn’t have the idol connection. Well, I live in a City where more idol music is played then anywhere in the nation and I have NEVER heard SS played on the radio here. So…for me that theory doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

  20. Imagine if The Script never gave that song to Kris, what then?

    They could have gone with “Alright With Me” as the first single, which Ford chose as the song for their commercials, and Kris Allen’s success may have been equally good.

  21. Whenever an “idol” song is not spun on the radio the fan sentiment is always that the PDs have a vendetta against idol and that the song would be successful if it didn’t have the idol connection. Well, I live in a City where more idol music is played then anywhere in the nation and I have NEVER heard SS played on the radio here. So…for me that theory doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

    I don’t think this discounts the theory that one of the obstacles that’s facing Lee is bad press that season 9 received. It’s a generalization to pick one station or even one market, and say that it represents what is happening at all stations or markets. Obviously some stations are playing SS, or else it wouldn’t be in the top 25 on HAC.

    You made it sound like Kris is the first one hit wonder. Imagine if The Script never gave that song to Kris, what then?

    It’s stupid to label him as a one hit wonder after just two songs, so I’m pretty sure that’s not what I did.

  22. Elliegrill-I don’t think it’s because anybody thinks he was given the song-all his interviews have emphasized that he is a songwriter and co-wrote almost all his songs.LLWD was given to Kris-in fact he sang over the Script’s backing track-and the song became a big hit. I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes or why SS wasn’t sent to Pop at the same time or debuted on a big HAC station. I don’t think the song is done yet, though.
    As for the next single, a lot of Lee’s fans think it should be Me and My Jealousy or Beautiful Like You. As we all know, TPTB don’t always listen to fans-for example, when they used “The Truth” as the second single for Kris instead of AWM, which was cowritten by Kris and would have been a great summer song.

  23. Elliegrill-I don’t think it’s because anybody thinks he was given the song-all his interviews have emphasized that he is a songwriter and co-wrote almost all his songs

    Your missing my point. By given, I mean they might think that the only reason why RCA released the song is because another idol released a similar song, and had success with it, which is something that will influence how some PDs view Lee. I think Lee would have the same problem with Dear Isabelle, which is a beautiful song, but many will see it as a blatant ripoff of Hey There Delilah, which might play a role in whether or not PDs play it.

  24. Ok-I see what you are saying, though I don’t think the two songs (LLWD and SS) sound much alike, except they are both wordy and upbeat.
    I agree that they would probably think Dear Isabelle sounds like The Plain White Ts. I don’t think the song is all that much like “Hey There Delilah” but a lot of people have said that.

  25. PDs who compare the two songs wouldn’t be able to help hearing that SS just isn’t as good as LLWD in spite of any similarities. LLWD definitely has a hook, but I can’t hear one in SS no matter how hard I try to imagine I do. If it were a better song, there might be more mystery about why lots of stations aren’t adding and spinning it. But they don’t automatically owe Idol or Idol winners a single thing. Their songs should be able to stand on their own just like those of other singers at a similar career stage.

  26. The Script are opening with 45K is sales for their new album. Lifehouse opened with 55K for their last album. I thought both of these bands were considered hot with a lot of buzz right now. They have more buzz than Lee even with his idol run. So is this normal?

  27. Imagine if The Script never gave that song to Kris, what then?

    They could have gone with “Alright With Me” as the first single, which Ford chose as the song for their commercials, and Kris Allen’s success may have been equally good.

    But then again, it could have flopped too. We all should be happy Kris had such a huge success with LLWD.

  28. If I were RCA and planning to release a new single for Lee soon. I would do it this weekend. What better buzz can you create to tell his hometown crowd that they are the first to hear his new single, . If Fox could manage to televise that part of his performance win/win. It’s unlikely he would get another Idol performance beyond the finale without IGB.

  29. car:
    01/21/2011 at 1:35 pm
    The Script are opening with 45K is sales for their new album. Lifehouse opened with 55K for their last album. I thought both of these bands were considered hot with a lot of buzz right now. They have more buzz than Lee even with his idol run. So is this normal?

    IDK what you would consider ‘hot’ bands, but I never thought either were high on Buzz. The script did well with their single, but have struggled on CHR afterwards. They are more of an HAC band IMO, same with Lifehouse.

    There is definitely a new normal.. just not sure what that is yet.

  30. Mel1:
    01/21/2011 at 1:36 pm
    But then again, it could have flopped too. We all should be happy Kris had such a huge success with LLWD.

    Let’s make a feast from these crumbs, right?

  31. Let’s make a feast from these crumbs, right?

    Very clever, bravo.

  32. Thanks koshka. Not a fan of either band but from this blog I got the impression that they were big. Maybe I was just reading too much into the comments.

  33. Maybe Sony will twist Jive’s arm and get them to release Written All Over My Face as Kris’ 4th single to help out The Script again? It worked the first time. :-)

  34. They could have gone with “Alright With Me” as the first single, which Ford chose as the song for their commercials, and Kris Allen’s success may have been equally good.

    Not really. Actually the odds are highly against that. Daughtry is probably the last new artist who broke out with that light Nickleback sound.

    It’s stupid to label him as a one hit wonder after just two songs, so I’m pretty sure that’s not what I did.

    Of course technically Kris is not even one hit wonder, usually those one hit had much bigger impact on chart than barely scrapping top10. My point is that this is pretty normal, there is no blunder, no conspiracy involved.

  35. The Script are opening with 45K is sales for their new album. Lifehouse opened with 55K for their last album. I thought both of these bands were considered hot with a lot of buzz right now. They have more buzz than Lee even with his idol run. So is this normal?

    The Script are new in the US, and only had one hit song. Under those circumstances this isn’t a bad opening, and it doesn’t mean that they can’t build on it if they release a few hit songs. Lifehouse has been around for years, but I wouldn’t call them hot or even very popular.

  36. Let’s make a feast from these crumbs, right?

    lol, those were big platinum crumbs indeed

  37. AllenTX- AWM doesn’t have a light Nickleback sound or a sound similar to Daughtry’s songs.

  38. Of course technically Kris is not even one hit wonder, usually those one hit had much bigger impact on chart than barely scrapping top10.

    Considering that my post was about the promotion that Kris and the song received during it’s rise, which happened before a next single was released, your point still doesn’t make any sense, or address my post.

    Not that it matters, but do you really think it makes sense to try and discount a song that was in the top ten songs played on HAC and AC radio for 2010, and top 50 on pop? IMHO, those accolades would indicate that the song made an impact last year.

    Not really. Actually the odds are highly against that. Daughtry is probably the last new artist who broke out with that light Nickleback sound.

    Somehow, I don’t think that Nickelback would agree that AWM sounds like a song that they would do. Pretty much the only song that they have that comes close to AWM’s tempo is This Afternoon, and even then the match isn’t very close. Nickelback isn’t exactly known for doing happy or upbeat songs.

  39. IMO LLWD is a MUCH better song than either SS or AWM. It sounded like a hit the first time I heard it- instantly hooky and catchy, the wordiness worked to it’s benefit and made you wanna learn the words. Total Instantaneous earworm. SS is pleasant but just doesn’t have that same oomph… Not as hooky, lyrics are not as compelling. AWM (again IMO, I know Kris fans love this song) is repetitious, kinda annoying after the first listen. I think the ford commercials used the best parts of the song, but the snippets are more enjoyable than the whole. I bet it’s one of those songs that may be super fun live, but just would quickly be grating on radio. I don’t think it would have been as big a hit as LLWD even if jive had supported it

  40. Just now reading the Billboard article Kirsten posted. I didn’t realize Universal has laid off employees each January for the last three years. That’s so sad for the industry. They claim they will step up A&R efforts, though (or so they tell us).

  41. If this were Friday night, I’d make a drinking game out of every time a S8 argument discussion breaks out.

  42. One note on The Script. They opened #1 in the UK with only 70k 1st week sales last fall for their new album. So, their US sales are lagging.

  43. Paris’s audition gave Temporary Home a temporary boost all the way up to #102 on the all songs chart at i-Tunes. TH is at #103 now and #16 on the i-Tunes country chart. Thanks Paris!

    Yay for Carrie!!!! Paris sung TH really wonderful. One can see how much the song meant to her.

  44. If this were Friday night, I’d make a drinking game out of every time a S8 argument discussion breaks out.

    LOL more like a rehash of how 19 and Jive don’t know what they’re doing with Kris again. Let’s just ignore the possibility that Kris’ only success LLWD so far probably had more to do with Jive than Kris himself.

  45. They could have gone with “Alright With Me” as the first single, which Ford chose as the song for their commercials, and Kris Allen’s success may have been equally good.

    ITA – I really like AWM. I think it could have done well and then they should have followed up with LLWD. He could have performed that on AI instead of TT.

    But I guess there is nothing to be done about that now. At least Kris is getting a second album. And because his numbers for his debut album were not huge, I don’t think we will see a huge drop in his sales for album #2. I think he will get solid numbers for album number 2 as long as he gets a single like LLWD.

    And on a final note, compared to Lee, Kris is a sales and radioplay superstah!

  46. so if ss is done on HAC ,will RCA still send to top40 next week ,i don’t really know what is going on with this song ,i guess iam the only one who thought that the song could be a hit ,i think it is really catchy and i love its melody ,iam sad that it won’t be a hit and iam not sure that RCA will give lee next single any real promotion ,they didn’t even push SS that well ,there alot of meidcore HAC songs that got higher on the charts than SS thanks to the labels push ,i think they will treat lee like jive treated allison and then drop them on the summer ,it is not looking good for him but i really love his album ,it is a shame that his career isn’t going well

  47. They could have gone with “Alright With Me” as the first single, which Ford chose as the song for their commercials, and Kris Allen’s success may have been equally good.

    Not really. Actually the odds are highly against that. Daughtry is probably the last new artist who broke out with that light Nickleback sound.

    1. Alright With Me isn’t very catchy IMO and is quite repetitive. LLWD is a superior song to AWM.
    2. That said. AWM is very very different in style/vibe from Nickelback (light or otherwise). Again, IMO.

  48. Eileen99:
    01/21/2011 at 2:24 pmIf this were Friday night, I’d make a drinking game out of every time a S8 argument discussion breaks out.

    It’s Friday afternoon, is that close enough? I could use a drink right about now.

    I wish success for Sweet Serendipity, maybe some of these radio promos will help. He did a Chicago Mix interview this morning, so hopefully they’ll increase spins :)

  49. LOL more like a rehash of how 19 and Jive don’t know what they’re doing with Kris again. Let’s just ignore the possibility that Kris’ only success LLWD so far probably had more to do with Jive than Kris himself.

    It’s funny that in your zeal to put me down that you don’t see that your last sentence supports what I’ve been saying. Sales of the single were driven by the fact that people liked the song, and were not based on Kris’ name or popularity, that was obvious by the weekly sales growth, especially in comparison to the album’s. So, IMHO, logic would dictate that Kris’ management, Kris and Jive should have taken advantage of the song’s popularity in order to help bring more attention to Kris.

  50. Fourth single? Maybe its time to face that its time to move on? Of course the never ending debate about how badly 19 screwed up things for Kris will still go on and on and on. As if he’s the only one who has had their labels/management make poor choices.

    As of right now technically Kris had one big hit song. He can release his sophomore album and end up with another or multiple hit songs. I don’t get why pointing out he’s had one hit or calling him a one hit wonder (for NOW) is so offensive. Many new artists would kill to even have one hit.

    Even comparing him to Lee I don’t put Kris remotely near the word ‘superstar’.

  51. Forget about new artists– ANY artist would give their left arm to have even one hit song. If you are careful and lucky you can support an entire longterm music career on the back of one hit song. Getting a hit is hard. Any artist is lucky to get one, let alone multiples.

  52. So, IMHO, logic would dictate that Kris’ management, Kris and Jive should have taken advantage of the song’s popularity in order to help bring more attention to Kris.

    yeah, sure, why not? LOL We all know those promotion is just like posting on internet, it sure can go on & on & on…………

  53. Possibly the reason Kris is not more successful or more popular is because of Kris, himself, and not the blame of 19 or Jive.

    For one, I think Kris needs to improve his interviewing skills. Even someone like Archie, who I thought couldn’t string three words together in his responses, is now a master. Granted Cook and Adam, who are naturally articulate, have never had problems in interviews. Kris needs to sell himself.

    Forget about the first album, because it’s history. He needs to make his second album less bland. To me, AWM is bland. Five repetitive notes, and lyrics no better. I’ve listened to his album over and over, and I try really hard to get excited about some of his songs, but I always end up checking out.

  54. I would like to have simply seen what would have happened with AWM if Jive had given it an official add date and/or if they had sent the homemade video to VH1. If it flopped, well then it flopped. But I really don’t see how an artist can be expected to be successful if his label doesn’t support him. And AWM got to #51 on the Hot AC chart without an add date, which suggests it likely would have at least gone Top 40 with one. That wasn’t guaranteed, of course, but it seems more likely than not.

    Now maybe Jive went around to stations and discovered that no one would play the song even if had been given an add date. And maybe they did behind the scenes promotion that no one ever saw or heard about. I suppose that’s possible, but given Jive’s recent history of missteps with several of their artists — NOT just Kris or other Idols — I’m a bit reluctant to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

    Anyway, I don’t think it’s too out of the ordinary to expect the label give any single it releases an add date, even if it then leaves the song to sink or swim on its own.

  55. Possibly the reason Kris is not more successful or more popular is because of Kris, himself, and not the blame of 19 or Jive.

    Kris can always do better. We all can. But to suggest that he’s the only one that’s made mistakes isn’t correct. He didn’t choose TT as a single–that was all Jive’s doing.

    For one, I think Kris needs to improve his interviewing skills. Even someone like Archie, who I thought couldn’t string three words together in his responses, is now a master. Granted Cook and Adam, who are naturally articulate, have never had problems in interviews. Kris needs to sell himself.

    Are you suggesting that Kris hasn’t improved his interview skills? Have you listened to his recent interviews? He’s a lot better than he was 18 months ago, IMO.

    The man has a website where you can buy his merchandise. He hasn’t turned down a single chance to go to a radio station or perform in front of a crowd. The man sells himself, short of slinging his tail on the street corner.

    Forget about the first album, because it’s history. He needs to make his second album less bland. To me, AWM is bland. Five repetitive notes, and lyrics no better. I’ve listened to his album over and over, and I try really hard to get excited about some of his songs, but I always end up checking out.

    If you don’t like Kris and his music, that’s cool. No need to explain. It doesn’t sound like Kris is your cuppa. That happens.

    No matter what Kris does, some will never be satsified. That’s true for all Idols, all musicians. But let’s stop suggesting that they aren’t working hard, that they haven’t improved, that they can’t string together 3 words, that they’re bland, that they’re anything we’ve decided to label them with. There people who like each and every one of them. And there are people who don’t. So what? That’s life. We deal with the same thing in our lives. Does it stop any of us from doing what we do?

    If we put half the energy into actually supporting the Idols that we do in putting them down, maybe things would be better from them. But where’s the fun in being constructive and having purpose? Let’s just b**** on each other about two-year-old dead horses and how someone’s boring or wears too much pancake makeup. This s*** got old 15 months ago. The milk is curdled, folks. Find another cow, already!

  56. If we put half the energy into actually supporting the Idols that we do in putting them down, maybe things would be better from them. But where’s the fun in being constructive and having purpose? Let’s just b**** on each other about two-year-old dead horses and how someone’s boring or wears too much pancake makeup. This s*** got old 15 months ago. The milk is curdled, folks. Find another cow, already!

    I agree 100%

  57. Because if it doesn’t, I really don’t know why a label would even release a single if they have no intention of supporting it. Why not just tell Kris — you only get 2 singles, now go work on CD #2? That would have been less frustrating to the fans — and probably to Kris as well — in the end.

    Because he needed something to promote when visiting radio stations and other media during the Lifehouse tour? It wouldn’t have been less frustrating for the fans, the fans probably would have bombarded Jive with more complaints if they hadn’t released it. Jive wasnt going to spend major promo on the song when the album had been out of the BB200 for so long. It’s the same reason they didn’t release Sleepwalker for Adam IMO. Adams album was in the low 190s.

  58. Maybe they should try being boring and wearing the pancake makeup and see what happens. lol. The artist will receive the amount of promotion that their labels and management want to give them. Nothing will change that other than the artist making the label want to push them more. Yes I feel for Lee, but he receives what they want to give him. Same for Kris and for Adam. Having said that, I still want Sleepwalker released in the US so I am pouting as I type these words. Will RCA care what I want? Nope, but I’m doing it anyway.

  59. The artist will receive the amount of promotion that their labels and management want to give them. Nothing will change that other than the artist making the label want to push them more.

    So true. But we can’t control that. What we can control is to support artists that we like. Attends concerts, buy albums, point out articles and videos to potential new fans. It’s not much, but every little bit helps.

    And who knows? You might meet someone along the way that become a friend. Sometimes, it’s more about interacting with others than the artist. Even cynical old me can appreciate that.

    If saying that you wish a record company will release another single from a current album is what makes you feel better, go for it. As long as you’re channeling the energy in a positive manner rather that rehashing old arguments and opinions long set in stone.

  60. I get that Kris fans having faith in him, but I just don’t get the point of constantly pissing & moaning about the label not doing this right, not doing that right. Well, Kris can’t do it better himself anyway, otherwise he wouldn’t have bothered getting on idol. This just reminds me of claymates whining about RCA nonstop, so Aiken is doing so much better now?

  61. Regardless of promotion which has been very bad for many of the Idols, and despite the fact that I like many of the top Idols coming off each year of the show, the one thing that sets some of them apart and allows them to keep their foot in the door of the music industry, beside their talent, is their charisma. There is no denying that Adam is charismatic. Archie is charismatic. Cook is charismatic (and not just these 3). The fact is when any of those 3 walk on stage, they have contol of the stage. Every eye is on them. Even walking on stage in a simple 8th grade (age 14) talent show, all Archie had to do was smile at the audience and they erupted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdjGDb1aWXY And now, whether it is 21,000 people or 1 person (jambajim, for example), he has their total attention. That is charisma. Others can site good examples for Adam and Cook and others, but to me that is the underlying key and what keeps the core fans holding on. The charismatic pull of some of the idols is strong.

  62. I’m not trying to spam with updates but I thought I was posting a peak this morning when Carrie’s Temporary Home went up thanks to Paris’s performance. It actually looks like #97 on the all songs chart was the actual peak today :)

  63. Whenever an “idol” song is not spun on the radio the fan sentiment is always that the PDs have a vendetta against idol and that the song would be successful if it didn’t have the idol connection. Well, I live in a City where more idol music is played then anywhere in the nation and I have NEVER heard SS played on the radio here. So…for me that theory doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

    I’m not going to say that I live in a market that plays the most Idol music in the nation but I will say that my station is the first or second station to add Idol music on the add date, as well as other brand-new songs from non-Idol artists. It’s a very progressive station.

    This station is giving SS the most spins and has since day one. And my experience is completely different. I hear SS played every day. Actually, SS has more spins in California than anywhere else. Perhaps it’s just taking the rest of the nation awhile to catch up. :grin:

    I still maintain that the song has legs. But if it’s not doing any better by the end of February, I’ll concede.

  64. Thanks cmom for that link to the video of Archie. He is charismatic and that video made me smile. I agree that Cook and Adam and some other idols are too.

  65. Um. I get that most of you think season nine was deadly dull. I have my disagreements on that, but I digress from my point.

    This endless, endless, endless discussion of all things season eight makes me snooze off the moment it starts.

  66. , but to me that is the underlying key and what keeps the core fans holding on.

    I think most of the AI finalists have to have some level of charisma, or else they never would have made it to the final round of AI, when more than 100K others didn’t.

    But, considering that Archie has sold approximately 46,000 copies of his second cd in the same time frame that he sold more than 700,000 copies of his first, and that Adam sold almost 200,000 copies of his cd in the first week, but after almost two months he hasn’t sold 20,000 copies of his EP, I think it’s safe to say that keeping the attention of fans is about a lot more than charisma. Even though they probably wouldn’t have come close to the figures that I listed, I think it’s obvious that both would have sold more if they had had more promotion.

  67. Because if it doesn’t, I really don’t know why a label would even release a single if they have no intention of supporting it. Why not just tell Kris — you only get 2 singles, now go work on CD #2? That would have been less frustrating to the fans — and probably to Kris as well — in the end.

    They may have wanted to see if some stations would play the song on their own, which would tell Jive whether or not it would be worth it to try and push the song. At the time, LLWD was still doing very well on HAC, I think it was still in the top 20 or 30 of the songs played on that format, so maybe Jive thought there was a chance that given LLWD’s success that HAC PDs would be willing to play AWM, despite what happened with The Truth, the album being a year old, and the lack of exposure for Kris. Because only a few stations gave AWM any spins, Jive knew that it would be hard to get the song any traction, even if they spent the time and money to push it. Or, at least that’s one theory.

  68. Elliegrll- I think that the song getting to #51 without an adds date, is an indication that it had the potential to do well if it was actually sent to adds, since some stations won’t play a song before adds date(not to mention if there is no adds date planned), especially if it’s not coming from an established artist.

  69. This is slightly off topic, but for Cook fans, there are up-to-date track sales numbers posted at DCO. (Only ones missing are the ones that are no longer for sale – KOTN, Charity Version of Permanent, Breathe Tonight, and My Last Request.)

  70. Adam could not possibly have my attention more than he does, but I didn’t get the EP (or the dance remixes). I’m more than happy with the songs on FYE. EP’s aren’t expected to sell like CD’s, I don’t think. (The “money people” have to find that just right place between what promo costs them and what it gains them and act accordingly. The fact that their bottom line is the bottom line leads me to think that they’ve probably got pretty good reasons for what they do and don’t do.)

  71. Most people know that an EP sold mostly on a fan site and itunes is not expected to sell a lot. That is why the label and management make these calls instead of letting fans try to do it. They understand the business. When they issue extras of basically the same items they are just giving the fans extra product and bringing in a little cash without spending much to do it, while keeping the artist in the public eye. They do not want to spend a lot of money just to say look what we did. But Adam got some nice press coverage for the EP and they were not complaining about how many he sold. Adam’s team is probably more concerend about him selling at least 100,000 with his second album on opening week. If he sells less that that it will look like a failure. The market is down but I’m sure they still want to make a good showing to avoid the negative press about low sales. The press has been brutal to idols who can’t put up decent numbers. So I am really hoping that David Cook and Adam can make a good showing even if they don’t put up the numbers of the first albums.

  72. Most people know that an EP sold mostly on a fan site and itunes is not expected to sell a lot.

    The point was made that if someone has charisma they can keep fans interested, and it was implied that people would be more likely to keep abreast of what that person is doing. For example, they would follow that person on twitter, where he released various tweets about the EP, or even keep up with some news reports on the artist, which mentioned the EP.

    That is why the label and management make these calls instead of letting fans try to do it.

    I know that RCA diddn’t expect hundreds of thousands of people to buy the EP, that’s why they didn’t bother to release it to brick and mortar stores, or at least strike up a deal with one retailer, like Justin Bieber’s label did with Walmart. RCA knew that no matter how much charisma Adam has, it wasn’t worth the money to make more than 2,000 physical copies of the EP. Just another example about how it’s not just a matter of charisma.

  73. If I were Adam, I would put more confidence in RCA and my management guiding my career than I would in the everyday mans knowledge of what should be done. So far he and his team have kept him relevant and of interest to the media so hopefully the fans will continue to support him as well. I imagine all the artists would want that. But maybe not. What do I know? No more than the next guy.

  74. car:
    01/21/2011 at 9:23 pm

    If I were Adam, I would put more confidence in RCA and my management guiding my career than I would in the everyday mans knowledge of what should be done.

    Exactly. RCA knew what to expect and therefore put the effort towards the EP that they did. I actually think they underestimated the demand for the physical CD, thus the second release and the weeks of sold out status where you couldn’t order the physical copy. Just as Jive probably knew what to expect of AWM and therefore didn’t put a lot of effort into pushing it.

  75. You really cannot draw conclusions about anything from looking at Internet only ep sales for any artist. Daughtry sold several hundred thousand copies of ltt it’s debut week ( over 1.2 million now) but sold about 12kish of their b- sides ep. I don’t think that shows an erosion on their fanbase or charisma level. These types of things are not huge sellers for anyone ( but are cheap profits for the label )

  76. These will probably get lost on this thread since it’s Friday eve, but this is such an unexpected boon of numbery goodness that I had to post. As wordnerdarchie mentioned above, we got real, un-rounded Soundscan numbers for David Cook’s singles and album tracks from RCA:

    SONG | SALES THIS WEEK | TOTAL SALES

    1. TIME OF MY LIFE | 1,240 | 1,375,367
    2. LIGHT ON | 809 | 1,104,914
    3. COME BACK TO ME | 972 | 514,252
    4. PERMANENT | 189 | 138,733 (does not include live charity singles)
    5. DECLARATION | 46 | 53,745
    6. LIE | 86 | 45,001
    7. HEROES | 72 | 36,344
    8. I DID IT FOR YOU | 24 | 20,030
    9. A DAILY ANTHEM | 12 | 15,440
    10. LIFE ON THE MOON | 35 | 13,306
    11. AVALANCHE | 13 | 12,622
    12. BAR-BA-SOL | 12 | 11,817
    13. MR. SENSITIVE | 9 | 7,690

    GRAND TOTAL | 3,519 | 3,349,261

  77. ladymadonna where did those come from? Is RCA just in a giving mood today?!! LOL. Anyway, that’s cool. :) Thanks!

  78. ladymadonna where did those come from? Is RCA just in a giving mood today?!! LOL. Anyway, that’s cool. :) Thanks!

    Yes. where are these numbers coming from all of a sudden. Did the fans ask RCAED for numbers since he gave Adams numbers yesterday. I know that was the plan. Cool if you have a link. I’ve never seen them on Cook’s number thread before!

  79. Cool if you have a link. I’ve never seen them on Cook’s number thread before

    LOL do you think I made them up? They were just posted tonight. Link.

  80. LOL do you think I made them up? They were just posted tonight. Link.

    I’m not looking for numbers by fans. I’m looking from an official link or from RCA themselves. :)

  81. Holy cow. LOL

    Anywhoo…. So if we do the album equivalent thingy, he’s at about 1.7 mil. That’s cool. Maybe 2 mil worldwide(? – I never retain that worldwide number, ladymadonna you’re gonna have to help me on that) That’s not bad.

    Well, I’m ready for the next one now. I’ll be happy with even a quarter of that… okay a third. :D I’m easy to please. LOL

  82. I’m not looking for numbers by fans. I’m looking from an official link or from RCA themselves.

    Can’t help you with that – they were provided via DM by an RCA mod, who gave permission to post on the numbers thread.

    Maybe 2 mil worldwide(? – I never retain that worldwide number, ladymadonna your gonna have to help me on that) That’s not bad.

    Tinawina, we’ve never had any kind of verifiable international numbers for DCTR, which is why we never really talk about them. I’ve seen some chartwatching sites with estimates of anywhere from 200K-500K, but never anything I trust – they’re always extrapolations based on unknowns. Since DCTR was not launched internationally, I’ve always viewed those sales as the proverbial icing.

  83. Can’t help you with that – they were provided via DM by an RCA mod, who gave permission to post on the numbers thread.

    Yes, I know. That’s the thing. There seem to be a source that are secretly giving out info. THE source is strange. Why not official numbers out in the open. I love that fans are number nerds, but I like to see official links. That is all.

  84. Anywhoo…. So if we do the album equivalent thingy, he’s at about 1.7 mil. That’s cool. Maybe 2 mil worldwide(? – I never retain that worldwide number, ladymadonna you’re gonna have to help me on that) That’s not bad.

    See, fans tend to run with numbers that are not official. After the meltdown yesterday of RCAed giving out numbers I’m just curious where they are coming from. I myself keep track of Idol numbers like most fans do and it would be only fair to get something official. Thanks.

  85. Why not official numbers out in the open.

    The reason for this is that SoundScan subscriptions (which allow access to all scanned sales) are extremely expensive and cost tens of thousands of dollars. People with access are not supposed to post the numbers, and that is why when they do get posted, they are “leaks.”

  86. Did RCAed give Adam’s numbers yesterday? I missed it, does anyone have the link to it? Thanks in advance.

  87. Nice numbers for David Cook. He has done very well. Numbers most likely come from different sources. But I don’t think they always have to be official to get an idea of how someone is doing. Especially with the international sales. We don’t have official numbers for Adam but we look at the gold and platinum singles and album certifications that he has racked up internationally to give some guidence. RCA just says over 1mil worldwide for albums. It does not give the whole picture, but hopefully one day we will get the official numbers and I would love to see them for the international album and singles.

    I have only followed Adam’s career. But I have to say I am willing to check out David Cook when his new album comes out.

  88. The reason for this is that SoundScan subscriptions (which allows access to all scanned sales) are extremely expensive and cost tens of thousands of dollars. People with access are not supposed to post the numbers, and that is why when they do get posted, they are “leaks.”

    Not true, but I will leave it at that.

  89. See, fans tend to run with numbers that are not official.

    Yes, I’ve noticed that.

  90. Not true

    Um, not sure which part you are referring to. But I am told that this is the reason why Brian has to round off his numbers when publishing them, rather than posting exact figures.

  91. We don’t have official numbers for Adam but we look at the gold and platinum singel and album certifications that he has racked up internationally to give some guidence.

    Yes, and that’s all we have to go on. We do know the number are higher but until he gets his next certificates we can get the full picture. All other numbers are out in the open. No secret DM’s.

    ETA: Brian said it is to expensive that’s why he hasn’t purchased it.

  92. Brian said it is to expensive that’s why he hasn’t purchased it.

    I believe Brian has a source with a membership that is willing to provide the numbers as long as he doesn’t post exact sales numbers.

    Whenever people post the real numbers, you can bet they either have a membership or have a source that has one. This is why numbers can seemingly come from different people, but they are still coming from the same major source.

    ETA.

    limi:
    01/21/2011 at 11:00 pm

    Did RCAed give Adam’s numbers yesterday? I missed it, does anyone have the link to it? Thanks in advance.

    I don’t have a link, but here is what someone kindly posted in an earlier numbers thread. Hope this helps!:)

    The EP sold 362 units TW; 20,154 to date.
    1,294 EP track downloads TW; 18,514 to date.
    IIHY Remixes EP sold 17 units TW; 2,526 to date.
    Remixes EP sold 19 units TW; 8,109 to date.
    18,338 Remixes EP track downloads to date; 6,682 of them for “Voodoo” alone.

    FYE sold 1,603 TW; 788,458 to date.

    “WWFM” album version has sold 1,641,340 downloads to date.
    “IIHY” has sold 733,985 downloads to date.
    “FYE” (the song) has sold 363,670 downloads to date.
    “Strut” is the #4 best selling track with 26,632 downloads to date (discounting “Time for Miracles” which has 132k but enjoyed different exposure because of the film and soundtrack).
    “Fever” is #5 with 24,961 to date.
    “Sleepwalker is #6 with 22,911 to date.
    All FYE tracks combined have sold 3,048,532 to date.

  93. Fullmoon do you believe RCAed’s figures for Adam? Why not for Cook?

    Cook fans have followed his sales from the beginning. Why would you think that his numbers are bogus if they came from the RCA mod? (Just the tone I got from your post)

  94. I don’t doubt Cook’s numbers at all, but after 2yrs of trying to get numbers I was just curious where they came from. Same with Adam fans, I only go by official numbers and/or his certificates since they are
    at least official. We’ve only had Cooks numbers for songs that were up for sale. Non single tracks were never given.

  95. What’s the big deal? We posted numbers from RCAED for Adam’s numbers yesterday, it probably prompted some more requests for DAvid’s numbers and his mod complied. Those numbers aren’t vast changes from what was reported previously for David’s singles, so I’m sure the numbers are accurate. The Cook fans are bigger numbers nerds than any fandom I’ve ever seen (compliment!).

  96. Thanks for the information, I actually found it, I think the individual track numbers are interesting,
    Ok is RCAed like a real person- jk
    Wouldn’t his numbers be accurate for any RCA artist?

  97. We’ve only had Cooks numbers for songs that were up for sale. Non single tracks were never given.

    Thank god there’s a first for everything. And this is not entirely true – we’ve had numbers for the album tracks that have charted on the Hot100 or Digital Tracks chart at one time or another, for instance:

    Album tracks charting in the 2 weeks following DCTR release
    Declaration – 20,376
    Permanent – 10,797
    Come Back to Me – 9,628

    Permanent (Charity Single)
    Sales week ending 5/24/09 – 39,000
    Sales week ending 5/31/09 – 22,000

    NB: Links above are to my own tracking charts – feel free to consider them non-official “fan” numbers if it pleases you, though they were sourced from either IdolChatter or our favorite SS leakers – same as those we discuss here every week.

  98. What’s the big deal? We posted numbers from RCAED for Adam’s numbers yesterday, it probably prompted some more requests for DAvid’s numbers and his mod complied.

    Cook’s mod Lisa is a volunteer fan. Not an official RCA mod. RCAed does pop in his head once in awhile though.

    ladymadonna, the single charting were out there already. Thanks for the rest of the non single numbers, I will keep them on file until something more official comes in. Sorry for questioning where they come from.

  99. Cook put up incredible numbers for his debut album. Thanks, ladymadonna. Nice you got the actual numbers leaked (they are so much nicer than rounded numbers, sigh).

  100. Cook’s mod Lisa is a volunteer fan. Not an official RCA mod. RCAed does pop in his head once in awhile though.

    And your point is? If Lisa says they are Soundscan numbers, then they are.

  101. 5. DECLARATION | 46 | 53,745

    btw, things like this always make me chuckle. What prompted 46 random people to download Declaration last week? LOL. Love it that album cuts keep selling year after year, though.

  102. And your point is? If Lisa says they are Soundscan numbers, then they are.

    OK, so they came from Lisa. I know some fans can’t question ANYTHING on DCO site but I didn’t think it applied here. Isn’t that what fans do? No biggie.

  103. Love it that album cuts keep selling year after year, though.

    Indeed. 3500 tracks a week off an album released 2+ years ago? I’ll take it. Plus the most recent numbers we had for DCTR indicated it’s still throwing down an average of 1500 units/week. I think I’m willing to go out on a limb and say Cook is no longer selling just within the Idol bubble at this point. ;-)

    OK, so they came from Lisa.

    They didn’t come from Lisa, they came from RCAEd. Why the heck is this an issue? Considering how often Wikipedia is cited around here I never would have expected the thread to take this turn, but OK. Personally I’m thrilled to have actual sales for the album tracks. This is an absolute gift as far as I’m concerned.

  104. I think I’m willing to go out on a limb and say Cook is no longer selling just within the Idol bubble at this point. ;-)

    But I won’t believe that until I read it at Wikipedia. Tee hee.

  105. I think I’m willing to go out on a limb and say Cook is no longer selling just within the Idol bubble at this point. ;-)

    Both Cook and Adam albums were on Billboard album charts for close to a year. There is no doubt they are selling out of the bubble.

  106. Tinawina, we’ve never had any kind of verifiable international numbers for DCTR, which is why we never really talk about them.

    Thanks! Well, then its not a bad thing I never remember what it is, All I remember is that its small. LOL

    See, fans tend to run with numbers that are not official.

    Oh my goodness. Dude, its not that serious. If they turn out to be wrong I’ll just update the estimate.

    Maybe we should hand out a round of drinks? It seems tense in here. Its Friday night! Everybody should just get mellow. :D

  107. Maybe we should hand out a round of drinks? It seems tense in here. Its Friday night! Everybody should just get mellow. :D

    Geez, all I ask for was a link. I don’t see why it should be tense. I’m part of the rose crowd not the weed crowd. :)

  108. Thanks! Well, then its not a bad thing I never remember what it is, All I remember is that its small. LOL

    I remember reading an interview before one of Cook’s shows (either Morongo or the soccer game) and Cook reportedly said 1.5 mil worldwide (on what at the time would still have been just over 1.3 mil domestic). Why they asked about the worldwide sales figure, I don’t know. But yeah, not huge.

    Geez, all I ask for was a link. I don’t see why it should be tense. I’m part of the rose crowd not the weed crowd.

    In my opinion, both those factions would do Cook a huge service if they never left the greenhouse again. Entitled indie fuckwittery or BSC hero worship? Gee, I have someone to root for there.

    At any rate, it’s been well-established that leaks that are that detailed can only be provided anonymously and occasionally (see the board with the heartbeat and the answers to complaints of why the numbers aren’t out fast enough). Challenging their official provenance because SS didn’t have a press release rather ignores the history of their delivery.

  109. I’m part of the rose crowd not the weed crowd.

    Good one, I like that!! I’m going to remember that quote.

    I wish the record labels would release all kinds of numbers, I think numbers are interesting and make for factual discussions. I would love to know FYE’s total numbers, US and international. Ok don’t tell me they are posted somewhere and I missed it!! ha

  110. In my opinion, both those factions would do Cook a huge service if they never left the greenhouse again. Entitled indie fuckwittery or BSC hero worship? Gee, I have someone to root for there.

    IA. LOL. That’s why I don’t see why the “how dare you question” my source.

  111. It does not matter if David Cooks international sales are large or not. All international cerifications are important and they would still count. RCA would consider all sales not just the US. There are not that many idols touring internationally (other than the Phillipines and such) so they will most likely let those tour who can sell. I think David will with his next album.

  112. I would love to know FYE’s total numbers, US and international. Ok don’t tell me they are posted somewhere and I missed it!! ha

    No we have never gotten a real number on international sales just from certifications.

  113. Let’s just b**** on each other about two-year-old dead horses and how someone’s boring or wears too much pancake makeup. This s*** got old 15 months ago. The milk is curdled, folks. Find another cow, already!

    YES YES YES

  114. International sales numbers are hard to come by.
    I still have absolutely no idea what is the breakdown for each of Kelly’s albums, we just have soundscan numbers for her carreer.

    My guess is that numbers will leak when Adam will do his promo tour for the next album.

  115. Smeggs-Thanks for helping me on your info, I confuse easily!
    can you imagine being told you could sniff AL’s neck- I think I would have fainted! haha

  116. What’s interesting to me is how closely Cook’s on-going track sales appear to track to his recurrent airplay. It’s not a complete 1:1 correlation, but he’s selling just over one track for every spin (3301 spins = 3,519 sales), and at a very similar ratio per song.

    From Brian’s Idol Airplay chart this week:

    17 17 David Cook, Time Of My Life (1721)
    25 28 David Cook, Come Back To Me (911)
    33 32 David Cook, Light On (669)

    Total spins of mainstream singles: 3301

    # of tracks sold during the corresponding sales week:

    TIME OF MY LIFE (1,240)
    LIGHT ON (809)
    COME BACK TO ME (972)

    Total downloads of mainstream singles: 3021

    Obviously we would need more than one week’s worth of data to call this anything other than a coincidence, but still kind of intriguing.

  117. Wow. Interesting discussion.

    “Cook’s mod Lisa is a volunteer fan. Not an official RCA mod. RCAed does pop in his head once in awhile though.”

    I’m not a frequent denizen of DCO, but isn’t Lisa an officially sanctioned mod (ie. they don’t pay her, but they have given her official modding duties, privileges and access)? I do know that she has had direct contact with RCA and RCAed in the past (as relayed by RCEd himself).

    I suppose that we will know soon enough if those numbers are “official” or fabricated. If Lisa fabricated them, or got them from a bad source, I would expect RCA to have revoked her modding privileges by Monday morning at the latest. LOL.

  118. Ladymadonna, that is such an interesting observation. You really are the Queen of all Idol Numbernerds.

  119. I think that I’m the only one still here…

    Final thought. Adam has really made some great strides Internationally, and I expect his next International Tour will be even more extensive and larger in scope. Am I crazy for hoping that there could be a few joint International appearances/stops for Adam and David (a la the huge Cook/Archuleta show in Manilla)? They have very different styles, obviously, but I’m telling you, that would be one kick-ass concert!

  120. You really are the Queen of all Idol Numbernerds.

    Nah, Kirsten is the Queen. I am a mere handmaiden.

  121. suenigma, that sounds like a good idea to me. Adam has said his next album is going to be more pop/rock, rock and a little darker. And from his concerts he can rock as hard as the best of them. Well yes Adam can be a bit wild sometimes and I love it, but it is still rocking. And Daughtry and Adam did do the Singapore gig. On different nights I think. 10,000 for Daughtry and 20,000 fans for Adam. But they both got good feedback.

  122. They have very different styles, obviously, but I’m telling you, that would be one kick-ass concert!

    :) I think the difference in style in spite of it would have the media go absolutely nuts. At least for a few gigs, but I don’t think RCA/19 can think out of the box like that!

  123. Ohhhhh, and they could do a duet on “Man in the Box” (Cook’s wheelhouse) or a little LedZep (Adam has proven his virtuosity there). I also think that Monte and Neal could lay down some incredible dueling guitars. Both of them are incredible musicians and guitarists.

    A one or two-of would be a great media draw like you say Fullmoon. Come on RCA!

    ETA: I’ve got it. Hunger Strike!

  124. ooh ladym you’ve outdone yourself! Thanks for all the numbery goodness! Fun!!

  125. They could have gone with “Alright With Me” as the first single, which Ford chose as the song for their commercials, and Kris Allen’s success may have been equally good.

    Not in my opinion. AWM is not a very good song at all, is a repetitive and not imaginative. I call it a campfire song. May be good for a commercial, not as a single.

  126. Just as Jive probably knew what to expect of AWM and therefore didn’t put a lot of effort into pushing it.

    Jive also thought that TT will be at least as big as LLWD was, so their prediction are not always accurate or even close to it. Labels can make very wrong decisions regardless of the data they are suppose to have. And imo AWM showed a lot of potential by getting to #51 without an adds date. There are songs that eventually became hits that has done much less than that before they went for adds. It is easy to say that AWM didn’t have a potential if you don’t like the song, but there is no proof that this is true. It is just as likely that Jive missed on a potential hit when they decided not to push AWM.
    I hope that in the next album Jive will chose the right singles and will promote them all and that they all will become hits.

    springboard-Not everyone agree with you that it’s not a good song. AWM’s lyrics are very fun and that is important in order for a song to become a hit.

    Thanks for the numbers for David Cook, he has done really well :).

  127. This is an absolute gift as far as I’m concerned.

    ladymadonna, I obviously didn’t go back far enough on ChartJames this morning, and I just had the chance to catch up on this thread. I’m still soaking in those absolutely luverly numbers! Thanks for the posts and the commentary, and bringing such a marvelous main course to the diet of crumbs – IDK why RCA put them out there – and IDC – that was a feast! :)

  128. VH1 Top 20 Countdown: 01.22.11

    9 Crystal Bowersox “Farmer’s Daughter” [3|9] [+2] New Peak, Enters Top 10
    4 Christina Perri “Jar of Hearts’ [11|1(1x)] [+1]
    3 The Script “For the First Time” [7|3] [+3] New Peak, Enters Top 5

    Falloffs
    16 Lee DeWyze “Sweet Serendipity” [4|11] [REMOVED]

    I’ve included Christina Perri this week (should have in the past since she got her big break with having her song featured on SYTYCD). I’ve also included the Script, due to their relevance to past conversations.

    IDK why RCA put them out there

    After the brief twitter discussion from night before last, I guess we found out that all we had to do was ask politely. :)

    ETA:

    Did the fans ask RCAED for numbers since he gave Adams numbers yesterday. I know that was the plan.

    I believe one fan asked and He replied… But it’s cool that you must be following me or one of my friends on twitter. That convo was very brief. Too bad I don’t have any idea of who you are there, LOL!

  129. Thanks! Well, then its not a bad thing I never remember what it is, All I remember is that its small. LOL

    standtotheright:
    01/22/2011 at 12:58 am
    I remember reading an interview before one of Cook’s shows (either Morongo or the soccer game) and Cook reportedly said 1.5 mil worldwide (on what at the time would still have been just over 1.3 mil domestic). Why they asked about the worldwide sales figure, I don’t know. But yeah, not huge.

    So that amounts to about 200K worldwide? Sounds about equal to Adam Lambert’s international sales according to RCA, if I’m doing my maths right.

    car:
    01/21/2011 at 11:01 pm
    Nice numbers for David Cook. He has done very well. Numbers most likely come from different sources. But I don’t think they always have to be official to get an idea of how someone is doing. Especially with the international sales. We don’t have official numbers for Adam but we look at the gold and platinum singles and album certifications that he has racked up internationally to give some guidence. RCA just says over 1mil worldwide for albums. It does not give the whole picture, but hopefully one day we will get the official numbers and I would love to see them for the international album and singles.

    I think Cook’s done reallypretty well in the international sales department if you consider that he did not get the international exposure that Adam did with his tour.

  130. So that amounts to about 200K worldwide? Sounds about equal to Adam Lambert’s internautional sales according to RCA, if I’m doing my maths right.

    You’re not doing your maths right. RCA announced in early July 2010 that FYE had sold over 1 million copies worldwide. At that time US sales were about 635k. Since July Adam has gone platinum in Australia, released his album in France, and appeared on charts in Germany, Russia and had resurgence on charts in Canada (after the MuchMusic awards) Finland and New Zealand. Not to mention touring internationally which usually increases album sales by a bit.

    I do have to say I’m impressed that Adams track sales from the FYE album are pretty close to David’s track sales considering Adam didn’t have a monsiter coronation song like Time of My Life.

    You definitely can’t argue with the successes David has had, thats why the AI putdowns that include him make no sense to me. I just wish both he and Adam (and all the other Idols) successes on their next albums. The sales climate seems to be worsening every year.

  131. We’ll get an estimated international sales number for FYE when they start to promote his next album. It passed 1 million worldwide at the end of May 2010 — RCA Ed posted it in July 2010 — that was before the GNT International Tour but Adam had done some promotion.

    Last May, 65% of Adam’s sales were from the US, with the international tour, my guess is that it is now a much higher percentage from outside the US because they released it in other countries after the US (France was 11/10), international wholesale sales reporting except for UK, AU, NZ and Canada is much slower than the US, and because Adam just finished his international tour.

    Based on trends, where sales were in May, and what we know from certifications, charts and sales positions, my SWAG is that FYE is around 1.3 million worldwide with 45% of the increase since May 2010 coming from the US. That would put FYE around 500k outside the US. Over 200K of that is from Canada, New Zealand and Australia. But the rest is from all over the place. They album has charted in over 30 countries.

    Platinum
    Canada – 80,000 units: March 2010
    New Zealand – 15,000 units: May 2010
    Singapore – 10,000 units: September 2010
    Australia – 70,000 units: January 2011

    Gold
    U.S. – 500,000 units: January 2010(certified June)Retail sales 788,458 units
    Finland – 10,000 units: August 2010
    Malaysia – 7,500 units: November 2010

    Also reported to be Gold in South Africa but not certified.

    suenigma:
    01/22/2011 at 2:39 am

    Final thought. Adam has really made some great strides Internationally, and I expect his next International Tour will be even more extensive and larger in scope. Am I crazy for hoping that there could be a few joint International appearances/stops for Adam and David (a la the huge Cook/Archuleta show in Manilla)? They have very different styles, obviously, but I’m telling you, that would be one kick-ass concert!

    David and Adam are on different album-tour cycles. David is about one year ahead of Adam. So, David should be on tour when Adam is releasing and doing the initial promotion on his album. Timing is just off.

    But I would be shocked if this ever happened. Makes no strategic sense for Adam at all. (I am not sure what the strategy is for Cook so I will not comment on that.) Anyway, if they ever perform at the same concert — I do not want to be anywhere near any Idol fanboard. It would be a no-win and cause a fanwar. Who would open? There is no chance that Adam would open for Cook, and why would Cook want to open for Adam. They both can’t headline. For the Davids, it was easy to pick the opening act and they were on the same season together.

    Even when both Daughtry and Adam were at the Singapore Grand Prix, they were never together — even though they were there the same days. If they decided not to do even a Daughtry-Adam press event last year, seems unlikely we will see Adam and anyone else from Idol paired for anything — except possibly something on AI10. And I am not ever sure we will see Adam on AI10 — he won’t have anything to promote until late summer — and RCA really has no apparent interest in another single from FYE.

    ETA: On the David’s concert in Manila, it was co-headliner with Archie performing first. I am sorry for the error in my above comment but the press reports say David A. opened and I went by that. :)

  132. The Davids show in Manila was a co-headlining show. It was billed that way. Just because David A. performed first does not mean that he was Cook’s opener. Just like when Christina Aguilera and Justin Timberlake co-headlined a tour together. Christina performed first but she was not Justin’s opener.

  133. I am a fan of both Cook & Adam, and I have been to concerts for both them of them and enjoyed them very much, but I would find a Cook/Adam concert weird. Their concerts have different vibes from each other, so it would be jarring for me from going to one set to another. And no, neither of them could open for the other. IMO, YMMV, and all that jazz.

  134. You made it sound like Kris is the first one hit wonder. Imagine if The Script never gave that song to Kris, what then?

    Certainly The Script got paid a ton of money to “give” that song to Kris, and the got paid to produce it, perform on the track, get the royalties. Plus, they followed LLWD up the chart with Break Even and finally got their own US hit. Seems to me like the big winners on this deal were The Script. (Kris didn’t do bad either.)

    Hard to call anyone who sells over 300K albums in the US in this market as one-hit wonder. The market has reset and the numbers are just different now.

    For the year, only 13 albums managed to scan more than 1 million units, with the best-selling title being the 3.4 million units scanned by Eminem’s “Recovery.” That represents a new low in the SoundScan era — even worse than 2009, when only 22 albums scanned a million units apiece.

    2011 will be an interesting year but initial sales week is it is still headed down — looks like the era of the album as the driver of music industry revenue is ending and track sales are not going to offset the decline in album revenues. We’ll see where it all ends, but with only a handful of artists selling over 2 million albums last year…

    There were a few bright spots, but 2010 was mostly about diminishing returns. During the 52 weeks ended Jan. 2, album sales in the United States fell 12.8% to 326.2 million units from 373.9 million units in the prior year, as the sales of CDs fell by nearly 20% for the fourth year in a row.

    In the digital realm, growth in individual track sales continued to slow, barely managing to eke out a 1% increase, as sales reached 1.17 billion units, versus 1.16 billion in 2009.

    Combined U.S. sales of albums and track-equivalent albums (or TEA, where 10 tracks equals one album) fell 9.5% for the year to 443.4 million units from 2009’s 489.8 million units, according to SoundScan.

    http://www.billboard.com/news/u-s-album-sales-fall-12-8-in-2010-digital-1004137859.story#/news/u-s-album-sales-fall-12-8-in-2010-digital-1004137859.story

    Fasten your seat belts, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride!

  135. CindyM:
    01/22/2011 at 10:18 am
    You’re not doing your maths right. RCA announced in early July 2010 that FYE had sold over 1 million copies worldwide. At that time US sales were about 635k.

    Sorry about that, I thought Adam’s US sales were around 750K at the time. Still think Cook did pretty well, considering.

    Count me in with those who don’t think a Cook/Lambert show would be a good idea. Their styles and vibes are so dissimilar that it would be a real disconnect for me. And imagine the shennanigans that would ensue if the weeds/roses and the Glamberts started battling each other for stage-front space :-)

  136. oh, yeah I forgot about that “who would open first” thingy.

    Based on trends, where sales were in May, and what we know from certifications, charts and sales positions, my SWAG is that FYE is around 1.3 million worldwide with 45% of the increase since May 2010 coming from the US. That would put FYE around 500k outside the US.

    Yep, those are the numbers I got. Now can we get single sales for all 6 singles released? I have gold, platinum and 2x platinum up until July 2010….

  137. Q3:
    01/22/2011 at 10:33 am
    Based on trends, where sales were in May, and what we know from certifications, charts and sales positions, my SWAG is that FYE is around 1.3 million worldwide with 45% of the increase since May 2010 coming from the US. That would put FYE around 500k outside the US. Over 200K of that is from Canada, New Zealand and Australia. But the rest is from all over the place. They album has charted in over 30 countries.

    Fullmoon:
    01/22/2011 at 11:16 am
    Yep, those are the numbers I got.

    Those are not official numbers, but just fan guestimates, right? Just wondering in the light of the extended discussion on the legitimacy of the Soundscan numbers posted earlier.

  138. Numbers can be fun. It seems like Cook and Adam have sold about the same overall with Cook having more domestic sales and Adam more international sales.

    I hope S10 can produce a seller as well. AI needs to get back in the game. But I think everyone should drop their expectations for AI winners and runner ups to selling gold instead of platinum. I think those are more realistic goals.

    I know it’s too soon to write off the S9 albums yet, but based on what we see in sales so far, I imagine their sales will probably stall out to around 300,000.

  139. Count me in with those who don’t think a Cook/Lambert show would be a good idea. Their styles and vibes are so dissimilar that it would be a real disconnect for me. And imagine the shennanigans that would ensue if the weeds/roses and the Glamberts started battling each other for stage-front space :-)

    I’m a fan of both Cook and Adam but do not want to see them in the same concert. I agree it would be a real disconnect.

    But if this insane concert ever happened, which it will not, I would hope they would be smart enough not to do a GA concert.

  140. Those are not official numbers, but just fan guestimates, right? Just wondering in the light of the extended discussion on the legitimacy of the Soundscan numbers posted earlier.

    Based on international sales, yes. That is all fans can base on until the next certification comes in. David only has a gold certification in Canada the rest is also fan guessmates.

  141. Did David Cook chart in many international countries and how many international certifications does he have? That should give some picture of how well he is doing internationally even without official numbers. He was a popular winner so it would not surprise me that he has done well outside the US.

  142. Based on international sales, yes. That is all fans can base on until the next certification comes in. David only has a gold certification in Canada the rest is also fan guessmates.

    Yes, International sales are hard to guess. The certifications help, but don’t paint the true picture. For all we know, David could be 10 albums short of platinum in Canada.

    David didn’t tour internationally or do much promotion in Europe, so it’s not surprising he didn’t sell as well overseas. Cook was the AI winner and had a bigger fanbase here so it is not surprising he sold more in the US than Adam.

    Either way, both guys did well for themselves in this tough music economy.

  143. Yes, International sales are hard to guess. The certifications help, but don’t paint the true picture. For all we know, David could be 10 albums short or plantinum in Canada.

    Exactly. Frustrating isn’t?

  144. I’m confused. What’s the weeds/roses reference?

    ETA: I’ve also seen both David and Adam in concert, both great live performers, both rock out in concert more than in the studio albums and both totally able to engage their audience. I can’t see them with a concert together, their overall vibe is too different, but they both seem to be great collaborators and I think they could make it work. Don’t think it would ever happen.

  145. Those are not official numbers, but just fan guestimates, right? Just wondering in the light of the extended discussion on the legitimacy of the Soundscan numbers posted earlier.

    Fullmoon:
    01/22/2011 at 11:42 am
    Based on international sales, yes. That is all fans can base on until the next certification comes in. David only has a gold certification in Canada the rest is also fan guessmates.

    I’m still confused, but I guess Q3 can answer this one better, since she posted the numbers initially. Q3’s guestimate of 1,3 million is based on trends, charts positions and certifications, right?

    So the certification sales were

    Platinum
    Canada – 80,000 units: March 2010
    New Zealand – 15,000 units: May 2010
    Singapore – 10,000 units: September 2010
    Australia – 70,000 units: January 2011

    Gold
    U.S. – 500,000 units: January 2010(certified June)Retail sales 788,458 units
    Finland – 10,000 units: August 2010
    Malaysia – 7,500 units: November 2010

    A quick add up of sales outside the US brings me to 192 K. So the rest of the 500K is based on the RCA number plus trends and charting? Or are there other certifications that were not included in your list, Q3?

    Sorry if I seem dense – I’m not really into the numbers things, and am just trying to figure out how much stock to put into numbers posted here. Especially when the Soundscan numbers were subjected to so much questioning from you, Fullmoon – I would have thought that a reliable source, so I was surprized at the convo.

    As to how many international certifications Cook has – I have no clue. Although I am a fan, I only rarely check in on numbers. There might be people who kept track at the time.

    ETA: Lol, obviously I’m not good at blockquotes either.

    ETAA: The roses / weeds are self-styled monikers from two fan factions. I thought it particularly apt – roses are (sickly) sweet but with nasty thorns, while weeds are obnoxious space-stealers that crowd out the more desirable plants. :-)

  146. Yes, International sales are hard to guess. The certifications help, but don’t paint the true picture. For all we know, David could be 10 albums short of platinum in Canada.

    But aren’t certifications based on shipments? Why wouldn’t the label ship additional 10 copies to be able to get the album certified?

  147. Eyeswideshut, it seem that nobody has official numbers for international sales. So you would go by certifications and chart positions. I know RCA has sent out statements saying which countries Adam has charted in so I guess they would have done the same thing for David. We also know about Adam’s international certifications. A David fan can most likely tell us which counties he has certifications in. Just my opinion but I would look at that instead of guessing.

  148. They both can’t headline

    why not? there are lots of co-headlining concerts and tours…when billy joel and elton john tour together, is billy considered the opener for elton if he performs first or vice versa? NO! Stevie Nicks and Rod Stewart are joint touring together…is whoever goes first the opener and the second the headliner? NO, they are both headliners…only in idol world does it seem to be so important who performs first and who performs second…seriously, if adam and cookie ever were to perform together, even if the posters had their names in equally bold print on the same line, people would deem the first performer the opener and the second performer the headliner…ridiculous

    fwiw, I’m not saying that a cook/adam concert is a great idea — their vibes a pretty different…just saying that the headline issue is a silly idol fan construct and not a real world problem

  149. We also know about Adam’s international certifications

    .

    We only know the certifications that Sony has applied for — and that is true for any artist (eg Cook may have gold/platinum sales abroad that have never been certified…who knows)…we have already seen that several idol artists have sold well into the gold and platinum range but they have not been certified in the US (e.g. daughtry, kelly, adam, archie)…it is certainly conceivable that Adam (and others idol artists) have reached gold or platinum status in various countries but have not yet been (or may never be) certified. It all depends on what the label feels like doing. I will say, that Sony’s international units appear to move more quickly in getting Adam’s singles and cd certified than RCA has in the US (lol, which is not at all for WWFM and IIHY)

  150. I hope S10 can produce a seller as well. AI needs to get back in the game. But I think everyone should drop their expectations for AI winners and runner ups to selling gold instead of platinum. I think those are more realistic goals.

    I know it’s too soon to write off the S9 albums yet, but based on what we see in sales so far, I imagine their sales will probably stall out to around 300,000.

    I am not writing off either Crystal or Lee — but it is very possible that neither will sell over 300K units. I still do not consider album sales to be the sole measure of success.

    Sales reported 1/12/11: Crystal Bowersox, Farmer’s Daughter (9,000, -13%, 116,000 total/2,000 digital, +4%, 22,000 digital total)

    If Crystal has a pretty typical sales pattern from here (barring a huge hit single that drives album sales), she is tracking to sell around 220K to 250K.

    Sales reported 1/12/11: Lee DeWyze, Live It Up (4,000, -20%, 106,000/1,000 digital, +12%, 23,000 digital total)

    Lee has more weeks of sales behind him and if he get similar promotion to Kris plus some airplay, still will have trouble breaking 200K. Tracking to only 150K right now but a couple Idol appearances could help (he should get one early in the season and will def be in the Finale) because I think many casual Idol fans may have missed his album completely — and with the isolated airplay for SS, he hasn’t even gotten the broad radio exposure Kris had.

    For comparison, Kris’ album was released on the same schedule as Lee, LLWD had sold over 500K units this week a year ago and KATA was at 233K sold.

    Late sales surprises are always possible but they usually come from new artists who are not well known. It is really hard to think that Crystal and Lee are not well known — they were on the #1 show in the US 2 times a week for an entire season. Plus, even though they did not get the media buzz that Cook, Kris or Adam got, they got a lot more than a typical new artist. I don’t see any sign of a Spring sales surge for either of them.

    The only likely scenarios for either of these albums really shifting their sales curve is a hit single with a lot of radio OR a second album by either artist that has strong sales and reinvigorates the debut album sales. So, although it ain’t over till it’s over, the only difference in the sales life cycle from one Idol to another is the rate of decline and the sales life. But they all decline with only minimal variation that can be explained by seasonality and promotion events.

  151. I think Adam and David are doing great no matter what the official numbers or certifications are. David two years out. Adam one year. Both are idol success stories IMO. Hopefully they will continue the success with album 2.

  152. A David fan can most likely tell us which counties he has certifications in. Just my opinion but I would look at that instead of guessing.

    In Canada, David Cook’s album was certified gold at 50,000 in January 2009. (The number needed for gold certification has changed since this time.) Certainly it has sold more since that time – but we don’t know the numbers.

    In Finland, the album has been in the Top 200 on iTunes for over 2 years. This morning it is at #175. It has never been certified there. Does it have the numbers to qualify for certification? We just don’t know. As noted above the label must apply for certification and David’s first album wasn’t really pushed internationally.

  153. We only know the certifications that Sony has applied for — and that is true for any artist (eg Cook may have gold/platinum sales abroad that have never been certified…who knows)…we have already seen that several idol artists have sold well into the gold and platinum range but they have not been certified in the US (e.g. daughtry, kelly, adam, archie)…it is certainly conceivable that Adam (and others idol artists) have reached gold or platinum status in various countries but have not yet been (or may never be) certified. It all depends on what the label feels like doing. I will say, that Sony’s international units appear to move more quickly in getting Adam’s singles and cd certified than RCA has in the US (lol, which is not at all for WWFM and IIHY)

    I mentioned Adam’s certifications because it is part of the limited fact set we have — I looked at what we know to try to determine where FYE probably is in sales.

    We do not know much. For example, all we know about Canada is that FYE sold over 80K (based on CRIA certification) but Soundscan is only a sample of stores in Canada so just an estimate. So it could be up to 159K in Canada and not even qualified for 2X P or they may not have filed for it. US Soundscan gives us about 90% of sales, UK about 98% of retail sales are tracked, AU and NZ are both around 90%. Most other countries are just based on wholesale sales less retailer returns. And Japan’s sales are like a black whole — Nielsen Soundscan tracks some, Oricon tracks others, but Japanese retail is fragmented and a large percentage of sales are not on POS reporting systems.

    Often, certification is up to the artist not the label. If an artist wants to pay for certification, they can. Many artists choose not to pay for certification because it costs a lot to pay the label for the accounting and auditing. In many cases they wait until sales have topped out and do all the levels at once. Since WWFM looks like it will top out at 2x Platinum (the album track is at 1.641 but with all the track versions it should be around 1.7 now), why pay twice. IIHY is at 734K and still selling at a nice rate (7K last week) so it has a shot at Platinum over the long term.

    Many of the local countries (Singapore, Germany, Australia, NZ, Finland) Sony teams used the plaque presentation as a media opportunity to promote Adam’s stop there during the tour. So it makes sense. What benefit is there to certifying IIHY Gold in the US — everyone knows the sales numbers?

  154. In Canada, David Cook’s album was certified gold at 50,000 in January 2009. (The number needed for gold certification has changed since this time.) Certainly it has sold more since that time – but we don’t know the numbers.

    Gold in Canada is great no matter what but I believe that it was certified at 40,000 units.

    Change was made for albums released after May 1, 2008 — DCTA was released on 11/18/08.

    http://www.cria.ca/cert.php

    The way it is listed on the archives is confusing because it just shows both certification totals for Gold.

    http://www.cria.ca/gold/0109_g.php

    ETA: Sales only are one part of the entire picture because sales of recorded music is less than 50% SME’s net income. Some countries, like Sweden, have high rates of conversion to subscriptions, other countries the income comes mostly from licensing fees for airplay, and then there is publishing income. Sales are important but SME’s strategy is to maximize revenue from many sources and to look beyond recorded music sales. Every major label exec knows the clock is ticking and the artist who generate many revenue streams at a high level (like Gaga, Rhianna, Ke$ha) usually generate much more profit than artists who only sell albums and tracks. Cook and Adam are clearly both major contributors to SME’s bottomline.

  155. Based on trends, where sales were in May, and what we know from certifications, charts and sales positions, my SWAG is that FYE is around 1.3 million worldwide with 45% of the increase since May 2010 coming from the US. That would put FYE around 500k outside the US.

    Hence my bemusement over the discredited Soundscan leak. A WAG based on “trends” (?), certifications (units shipped not sold), and relative chart positions is more reliable than a leak from a label source that was precise down to the single-digit weekly sales for Mr. Sensitive? To each his own I guess.

    I thought the numbers were interesting in and of themselves, which is why I posted them.

  156. Thanks for the updates on Cook ladymadonna. Your source is a lot more credible than a lot of the sources people use on this site…cough wikipedia, examiner articles, etc..cough

    This thread has been amusing to read.

  157. Well I feel foolish arguing over a difference of 10,000 units from a year ago, but I will do it anyway.

    Here is the Canadian Gold & Platinum certifications for Nov 08
    http://www.cria.ca/gold/1108_g.php

    Notice that there are 5 albums listed under 40,000 for gold and then 3 albums listed under 50,000 for gold.

    Now look at the list for Jan 09. There are 4 albums listed under 80,000 for platinum and one for 100,000 for platinum. There is one album listed under 40,000 for gold and 3 (one of them David Cook) listed as 50,000 for gold.

    http://www.cria.ca/gold/0109_g.php

    Look at other months and you will see similar spacing to indicate at what number it was certified.

  158. Thanks for the updates on Cook ladymadonna. Your source is a lot more credible than a lot of the sources people use on this site…cough wikipedia, examiner articles, etc..cough

    This thread has been amusing to read.

    Agree. Wikipedia shouldn’t be used as a reliable source, so that’s why I don’t get why Adam’s numbers are tracked using Wikipedia

  159. A poster on the numbers thread at DCO (waves at MrsCRC) made this interesting point about the relative sales of each of the non-single album tracks from DCTR. We speculate a lot about how TV promo impacts sales of certain songs, but that can be really hard to dissect when a track is released as a single and is getting radio airplay, media mentions, and other promo.

    Cook’s record was interesting in the sense that though they may not have been released as singles, many of the album tracks on his debut did get national exposure here and there, so it’s notable to me to look at where some of these songs made appearances, and how they may have sold overall in relation to that:

    1. PERMANENT (138,733)
    Performed on American Idol Finale

    2. DECLARATION (53,745)
    Performed on Saturday Night Live/Good Morning America/ESPN All Star Game/Regis & Kelly

    3. LIE (45,001)
    Performed on Carrie Underwood’s Xmas Special

    4. HEROES (36,344)
    Performed at MLB All-star Game/NCAA Basketball theme song/NBC Sports ad campaign/Olympics montages (x2)/Idol Gives Back

    5.I DID IT FOR YOU (20,030)

    6. A DAILY ANTHEM (15,440)
    Used in American Idol episodes

    7. LIFE ON THE MOON (13,306)

    8. AVALANCHE (12,622)

    9. BAR-BA-SOL (11,817)

    10. MR. SENSITIVE (7,690)

  160. Agree. Wikipedia shouldn’t be used as a reliable source, so that’s why I don’t get why Adam’s numbers are tracked using Wikipedia on http://bit.ly/adu3Xf

    I can’t speak for that poster, but it could be she wanted some “facts” for her post and Wiki was the easiest source to pull it from. It hardly constitutes the kind of tracking that is done on CJT at DCO. And besides, how many Cook fans know their way around AO to find official numbers, if there are any posted there? ;)

  161. LOL, I’m not sure what people are disputing and if they are disputing.

    I guess it is the international sales for Adam and Cook?

    All we know for Adam is that RCA ED said based on sales up to the end of May 2010, Adam had sold over 1 million world wide. At that time he had sold what, 635,000 in the US? So I think based on that people estimated 400,000 internationally. Since then Adam sold another what, roughly another 150,000 in the US. That’s all we know for sure. But since May 2010, it’s likely Adam has sold more overseas since he toured there in the fall and his album was released in some countries at that time.

    As far as my comment that Cook could be 10 albums away from platinum in Canada, well, I said that because I’m sure he’s been selling in Canada since his album was certified gold there. We just don’t know how much he has sold.

    I don’t know if albums are certified based on shipments or not. Does anyone know for sure? If so, I would think Adam’s album would be close to being ceritified because he’s close to 800,000 on soundscan in the US and doesn’t soundscan under report by 10 to 15 percent? So is it possible the label has shipped 1 million units of his album in the US? However, some of those units sold are digital, so perhaps RCA did not ship 1 million CDs. LOL. Who knows. :)

    By the way, is it frowned upon to certify based on shipments alone?

  162. Hahaha. Apparently I am being mocked pretty scathingly in Live Journal(all of my comments cut and pasted from here, and summarily torn apart) for having the audacity to suggest that Adam would deign to perform with Cook, or that Neal is anywhere near the guitarist that Monte is, etc. I’m even getting shit for having capitalized the word “International”. Hell, I’m being accused of being a “Krisbert”, which is ironic given that I am not a fan of Kris, but that I AM a fan of Adam. Classy.

  163. My goodness! Who knew all this drama would occur just by Cook’s numbers being posted?

    Suenigma no you aren’t a Krisbert..lol

  164. My goodness! Who knew Cook would cause drama with his numbers being posted?

    Haha, welcome to the passion os Season 7 revisited, but only different.

    (I knew it would happen, by the way.)

    Suenigma, haven’t we all been mocked one time or another? It’s a badge of honor, imo.

  165. Hence my bemusement over the scrutinized Soundscan leak. A WAG based on “trends” (?), certifications (units shipped not sold), and relative chart positions is more reliable than a leak from a label source that was precise down to the single-digit weekly sales for Mr. Sensitive? To each his own I guess.

    I thought the numbers were interesting in and of themselves, which is why I posted them.

    Mark me confused.

    I just was attempting to guess where Adam was in worldwide sales — and I thought I clearly indicated the limited amount of info we have about Adam’s sales and that it was just my SWAG.

    I also did not comment on the Soundscan leak. But I was glad to read the numbers. I no reason to doubt that they are correct. I don’t even know what all the fuss was about. (please no need to explain to me, because I just scrolled past those comments quickly — of no real interest to me).

    I am very interested in the careers of several Idols but mostly Adam. I do not follow the other Idols closely but know who has a history of posting accurate info about various Idols here. When I see a post about Cook with the “Lady Madonna” ID on it, I never question it.

    Likewise, a CindyM post about Adam, I always trust.

    And so on.

    Many other posters here are quite reliable. And if a wrong fact is posted — it will be corrected in about 60 seconds.

    I am only interested in comparing Idols sales when it helps me forecast what a new release will do. It is a standard forecasting technique, look at similar cases and the sales history, and use that to build a forecasting model. I have a pretty good forecasting model for Idol debut album sales and after a few weeks of sales, in back testing, it is quite accurate. The only hard thing to forecast is the first week’s sales. In a prior job, I had access to presale number before release and then it was easy to forecast — now all I can do is guess.

    Finally, wholesale sales are not just shipments — it is supposed to be shipments less estimated returns. And the RIAA process is actually more rigorous than most people think. Wholesale sales units include 3 large categories of sales that are not in Soundscan:

    – Retail sales not reported to Soundscan. Nielsen says that US Soundscan is 90% of US sales. It will vary by artist but on average 8% to 10% of retail sales are sold by retailers who do not report to Soundscan.

    – Some sales from retailers who report to Soundscan do not count as retail sales. The two biggest categories are:

    Sales of albums that are less than 50% of MSRP — so the MSRP for FYE US 14 track version CD is now set at $17.99 so any CD sold for less than $9.00 doesn’t count in Soundscan but qualifies as a wholesale sale. Same rules apply to digital sales.

    Sales of too many units in one transaction is not a retail sale — I believe the cap is 8 but am too lazy to look it up.

    – Non retail sales do not count. Labels often dump excess stock into record clubs or closeout channels. These count as wholesale sales but do not count in Soundscan.

    There are also cases where retail sales are not wholesale sales. For example, RCA could give a big retailer 10,000 free units to sell as a cost concession. These units are sold at retail prices and count in Soundscan but are not wholesale sales and do not count for RIAA.

    The labels used to use some timing tricks or (un)intentionally underestimated returns resulting in some albums being RIAA certified platinum with retail sales of far less than 1 million. Taylor Hick debit is a good example — sold 704,000 units in the US at retail but is certified Platinum. The timing indicates that RCA underestimated returns.

    Album release 12/12/06
    RIAA Certified Platinum 01/16/2007

    They would have had to file in December to be certified in January — and I do not believe anyone, including retailers, expected that album to have such a short sales life. So rather than being some underhanded trick, looks to me like RCA just got blindsided by this one.

    There are many other cases like Taylor’s album in 2006 – 2007 while album sales were declining quickly. In response to this problem, the labels are slower to file for certification and the RIAA tightened auditing standards.

  166. Hahaha. Apparently I am being mocked pretty scathingly in Live Journal(all of my comments cut and pasted from here, and summarily torn apart) for having the audacity to suggest that Adam would deign to perform with Cook, or that Neal is anywhere near the guitarist that Monte is, etc. I’m even getting shit for having capitalized the word “International”. Hell, I’m being accused of being a “Krisbert”, which is ironic given that I am not a fan of Kris, but that I AM a fan of Adam. Classy.

    LOL, The fandom it’s why I stay off their boards. I’m getting twitter hate for asking for a link??? seriously??? LOL

  167. ONG | SALES THIS WEEK | TOTAL SALES

    4. PERMANENT | 189 | 138,733 (does not include live charity singles)
    5. DECLARATION | 46 | 53,745

    adymadonna:
    01/21/2011 at 11:42 pm

    We’ve only had Cooks numbers for songs that were up for sale. Non single tracks were never given.

    Thank god there’s a first for everything. And this is not entirely true – we’ve had numbers for the album tracks that have charted on the Hot100 or Digital Tracks chart at one time or another, for instance:

    Album tracks charting in the 2 weeks following DCTR release
    Declaration – 20,376
    Permanent – 10,797
    Come Back to Me – 9,628

    Permanent (Charity Single)
    Sales week ending 5/24/09 – 39,000
    Sales week ending 5/31/09 – 22,000

    So if we add in the charity single sales that we know of, that’s at least 200K sold of Permanent? This pleases me no end, as Permanent is my most favoritest song ever.

    Interesting that Permanent (non-charity) sold another 128K since the release, while Declaration only sold another 30K. I assume that’s because the non-charity single got a bump after the AI finale when the charity single didn’t go up on Itunes immediately. IIRC correctly it was only a week or so after (Disclaimer: It may have been a few days. To me it felt like months].

  168. Hahaha. Apparently I am being mocked pretty scathingly in Live Journal(all of my comments cut and pasted from here, and summarily torn apart) for having the audacity to suggest that Adam would deign to perform with Cook

    Ah some people are just OTT. Do you know what I would love, and I bet it would get good ratings, is an American Idol New Year’s Eve special. They could also have other popular acts on as well as AI alum, but there is so much talent there from the past 9 seasons that I think they could easily fill two hours.

  169. Eh, glamberts get mocked all the time. Adam gets the same crap from David fans. It’s all stupid.

    LadyMadonna, noticed the same thing with Adam album cuts. Aside from the singles, Strut performed on Ellen and Sleepwalker on Leno are two of the highest nonsingles on sales.

  170. LOL, The fandom it’s why I stay off their boards. I’m getting twitter hate for asking for a link??? seriously??? LOL

    Yeah, YOU were even quoted and mocked over there. Scary, scary place. I just wish that they would have the balls to disagree with us to our faces. Whatever heat or disagreements may take place here, at least it is always a two-way conversation, and everyone has a voice.

    Suenigma, haven’t we all been mocked one time or another? It’s a badge of honor, imo.<

    So true, but it’s just disconcerting to see a bunch of your posts cut and pasted. That’s the Internet for yah, I guess. In my defense, I did say that it was a crazy idea. LOL.

  171. Interesting that Permanent (non-charity) sold another 128K since the release, while Declaration only sold another 30K. I assume that’s because the non-charity single got a bump after the AI finale when the charity single didn’t go up on Itunes immediately. IIRC correctly it was only a week or so after (Disclaimer: It may have been a few days. To me it felt like months].

    Yes, I think it’s safe to assume that the sales for Permanent (album cut) were augmented significantly by the AI Finale performance. The album track of Permanent went immediately into the Top10 on iTunes and stayed there until the charity single finally went up. People were buying either over confusion about the charity single, or because they liked the song after hearing Cook sing it. Once the charity single was added both tracks hung around together in the Top10-20 of iTunes for awhile, with the album track fading back gradually. Ultimately Permanent sold enough to chart at #24 on the Hot100 the week it was performed on the AI8 finale.

  172. So true, but it’s just disconcerting to see a bunch of your posts cut and pasted.

    I’ve always disagreed with that practice. Especially when a lot of quotes are taken out of context. I think Adam and Cook’s styles are too different to tour together (if their target audience is outside the AI bubble that is), but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with discussing the idea for fun. I do think, however, their voices could sound good together and I see them getting along.

    Cook could glam up that rubber chicken of his, and as I recall David does like to rock the guyliner.

  173. I think that it is a myth that Cook and Adams’s audiences do not share a lot of overlap, despite their different styles. I love David Bowie AND Bon Jovi/Freddy Mercury AND Bruce Springsteen (this does not mean that I think that either Adam or Cook are anywhere NEAR the legendary status or talent of these legends – purely illustrative comparisons). There are lots of people in the real world that like them both. I remember that there were tons of people torn when Cook and Adam had those concerts in the Palm Desert on the same day. They wanted to see them both.

    Also, Neal is AT LEAST as proficient a lead guitarist as Monte. I think that that was what I was most offended by. Heh.

  174. I do think, however, their voices could sound good together and I see them getting along.

    We know their voices sound good together. I wouldn’t be a proponent of them touring together for a variety of reasons, but I’ll take any excuse to re-watch that Idoltastic video. Brings back great memories of that epic Nokia/GMA weekend.

  175. I am certain that David Cook has sold well over 40,000 units of DCTA in Canada but his Wiki page is wrong. And I am a fan of accurate numbers:

    Here is the Press Release from the CRIA April 2008:

    CD Awards Program Changes Announced
    Toronto, Apr 25, 2008

    The Canadian Recording Industry Association (CRIA) today announced new sales levels required for Gold/Platinum certification of CDs in Canada. Effective for albums released on or after May 1, 2008, sales required for Gold and Platinum certification will be 40,000 and 80,000 units, respectively. Previously, the CD sales thresholds were 50,000 for Gold and 100,000 for Platinum.

    Link: http://www.cria.ca/news/08-04-25_n.php

    Link to entire press release and new CRIA Certification levels. So until they release DCTA in Canada before May 1, 2008, David fell under the current certification rules.

    The same number is on the CRIA Certification chart: http://www.cria.ca/cert.php

    I don’t know if albums are certified based on shipments or not. Does anyone know for sure? If so, I would think Adam’s album would be close to being ceritified because he’s close to 800,000 on soundscan in the US and doesn’t soundscan under report by 10 to 15 percent? So is it possible the label has shipped 1 million units of his album in the US? However, some of those units sold are digital, so perhaps RCA did not ship 1 million CDs. LOL. Who knows. :)

    By the way, is it frowned upon to certify based on shipments alone?

    Pretty much answered in my too long post above but FYE is probably not close to being certified Platinum in the US. Sales are now 788,438. Assuming an average gap of 10% between Soundscan and real sales, that still is far from Platinum.

    The categories that count for RIAA and are not in Soundscan should not be very large for FYE — Military PX sales, club sales and club free goods, TV marketing and other ancillary markets. The complete RIAA criteria does not appear to be online but here is some info: http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinum.php?content_selector=criteria

    There were two Amazon deep discount events — $3.99 MP3 for 2 days and a $5.00 CD offer. Volume was probably trivial.

    In any case, it is now more common to wait until there is 1 million units in Soundscan before going for certification.

  176. Q3, they have two different certifications for gold. They didn’t eliminate getting certified for gold at 50,000 – they just made it so you can also get certified at 40,000. They lowered the threshold – but didn’t eliminate that 50,000 sales tier.

    There are clearly two tiers for gold sales on their website.

  177. Joyed:
    01/22/2011 at 3:10 pm

    Q3, they have two different certifications for gold. They didn’t eliminate getting certified for gold at 50,000 – they just made it so you can also get certified at 40,000. They lowered the threshold – but didn’t eliminate that 50,000 sales tier.

    There are clearly two tiers for gold sales on their website.

    There are two tiers because if an album was release on 4/30/08 it still needs 50,000 units to be certified Gold even on 1/15/11, but it would not be Gold if it sold 40,000 units.

    But an album released on 5/01/08 would only need 40,000 units to be certified Gold.

    I find the way they list it on the archives pages to be confusing and David does end up next to the 50,000 unit label to make it more confounding. A footnote would help.

    The CRIA, like the RIAA, is a trade association and they done think about fans being on the site I guess. And that is a poorly designed chart.

    PS I didn’t post to be argumentative — just wanted to be accurate.

  178. Also, Neal is AT LEAST as proficient a lead guitarist as Monte. I think that that was what I was most offended by. Heh.

    *chuckle* suenigma, I love it – you definitely have a point there – in the midst of dismissing the knee jerk reactions – that’s a “Wait! What?” ;)

  179. I think that the CRIA archives chart for David just has a formatting error in it. They certainly would not have made it harder for David to get certified than other artists.

    In any case, my bet is DCTA has sold a lot more than 40K or 50K. My guess is that it has because Canadian sales for pop-rock artists track closely with the US and DCTA has continued to sell in the US.

  180. Speaking of certifications, I know Cook recently reached the 500,000 mark for Come Back To Me. Did that get certified?

    Also, it will be fun to watch Archie’s Crush cross the 2 million mark. :)

    I suspect FYE will eventually go platinum in the US. It may take another 2 years, but it should happen. I wonder if he will get any sales bump from the Grammys or the start of AI? I suspect not much.

    Did Cook get a bump during S9 when the season started? I would probably say not much. S8, yes because he had that awesome tv commericial for A.I. Really, I think that has been the best AI promo commercial ever.

  181. I suspect FYE will eventually go platinum in the US. It may take another 2 years, but it should happen. I wonder if he will get any sales bump from the Grammy’ or the start of AI? I suspect not much.

    Undercooked, I am also positive that both Cook and Adam will get a good sales boost for their debut albums when they release their sophomore albums, especially if they have a lead single that is doing relatively well. AI albums seem to sell long after their expiry date is up.

  182. Speaking of certifications, I know Cook recently reached the 500,000 mark for Come Back To Me. Did that get certified?

    It’s not showing up as certified in the RIAA database.

    My goodness! Who knew all this drama would occur just by Cook’s numbers being posted?

    heh. Wait until DCTR2 drops

  183. For some late evening entertainment and maybe a slight change of pace and mood, another classic song from David Cook & old band Axium circa 2004. (Wow, it’s over 6 years old.)

    Pecking Order

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