I do not agree that only ‘trained’  and ‘non-industry working’  talent be allowed on Idol. American Idol’s rules only prohibit artists that have signed a record contract. If they disallowed artists that have been working their whole life to break into the music industry, we would be missing out on some amazing voices and music today. If you look at the majority of people who make it into AI top 10, they have some type of experience in the music industry, either performing, or producing their own album and/or winning other singing competitions. David Archuleta, as young as he is, won Junior Star Search and performed on several TV shows, including ‘The Early Show.’  Several contestants already had self produced albums ((David Cook (his album won several local awards), Kris Allen, Brooke White, and others)). Kelly and Adam did demo work for a record company and Adam worked in local theatre, not Broadway. Carrie was about to sign an album contract right before auditioning for Idol, but the deal fell through. She also won some singing competitions. All of these are extremely talented musicians and the Music Industry would be a sad place without these exceptional artists. If it were not for AI, we might never have heard their musical voice. There is more untapped talent out there so hopefully, AI sticks around.

I totally agree with you on this. I think that there is some level of experience needed. THe contestants that have been most successful also have had their own musical identities also, and this comes with experience. Of the seasons I’ve watched, I’ve seen that especially in Season 7, where almost everyone had their musical identity and stuck to it throughout most of their performances.

On the other hand, the contestants that have had little experience struggle more on the show to find a song that really give them a good performance or to make it sound like more than a karoke performance. The contestants that really do well on Idol can take a song and really make it their own in thier own style.

Also, the ones that have been sucessful after Idol had a lot of experience. I doubt if someone with little training and little experience would be able to write a cd that did well, and do a tour and have it be successful, like what David Cook did the past year.

Knowing both shows well, Idol tends to have more cheese offstage while XF tends to display more onstage ‘“ same cheese, just differently distributed and presented on the “plate.”

But, that might be “the problem” with it on this side of the ocean. (See below.)

Now, I don’t know that I agree with you that all the cheese on Idol is behind the scenes. (How would I or any viewer know?) I think much more of the manipulation is behind the scenes, but cheese? I see cheese in the Ford videos, the group numbers, and the audience questions that they did in season 7, but not behind the scenes. Other than the Ford videos, the AI cheese is just less slick, which is ironic considering this is the U.S. and we are known for polished performances rather than amateur night. However, there is a certain fun and charm in the AI group numbers, as long as they let the contestants be their goofy selves during them.

I mean, the following is fun and charming and goofy and all about the interactions of the contestants:

Top 10 group performance from Season 7, Right Back to Where We Started From
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt6zHlC6_Os&feature=related

But back to more polished cheese, considering how I’ve seen it presented on the X-Factor, it just appears to me to be Bizarro Las Vegas. In the U.S., it’ll be a joke that the contestant is the brunt of instead of being in on, like how we’re all in on it in the above video. What kind of legitimacy would these contestants have swanning around with fan dancers and slinky avant garde posers? The closest Idol gets to it is on IGB or in the finale, but the contestants tend to just stand to the side and let the SYTYCD people do all the leaping about and acrobatics.

And Paula was much more sober last season, she seemed to get her pill problem under control at least while on the air. She was more articulate also.

She was so scripted, which I’m sure was a direct result of her going off the rails in season 7. She couldn’t even pronounce some of the words she was speaking. Even Simon was laughing at her more than usual, as if to say, “you don’t even understand yourself with all those 10 dollar words!”

This. The one thing it will have going for it is the buzz. People will want to see if Simon’s off his rocker for quitting AI. And also, morbid curiosity is a powerful thing. See: rubbernecking at accidents, Jerry Springer, tabloid journalism.

I agree, as I stated in my earlier comments. In order for the X-Factor not to be a “jump the shark” type show from day one, they are going to need a credible winner of a Kelly Clarkson caliber, which helped to put Idol on the map. And considering how I’ve seen talk on blogs and boards about how Idol might be oversaturating the music market, especially with all the signing going on now, I wonder if there is even room for all the Idol contestants, let alone a bunch of X-Factor contestants.

If AI wants to survive and differentiate itself from Simon’s sideshow, they should nab Ben Folds and put the focus on the music over the razzle dazzle. He was the best thing about that Sing Off show. Also, Ellen + Ben Folds >>> Simon + Paula.

I watched a little of Ben Folds on the Sing Off and was very impressed. He’d be great on Idol. Very credible, smart, funny, relevant. He’s not mean like Simon, but I was getting the feeling that the singing groups really were interested in his critique the most, just like with Simon.

I agree that Idol could survive without Simon’s smug, bored self. They would have to get someone witty and concise to replace him, but it could be done. I’m tired of his shenanigans, honestly. I really only watch for the kids. Judges are just window dressing, imo.

Well said.

My 2 Cents: The judges made it much too much about themselves last season – especially Simon and his playmate Paula. Who needs 5 minutes of judges’ blather for each 2 minutes of singing?

I know that many AI fans think Simon is the most credible judge and I acknowledge that as an AR guy he has been successful at finding acts that will give a big pay-off to the record companies (and performers, at least temporarily). He’s a good business man and knows how to build buzz and capitalize on it but as a judge of musical talent on a reality TV show I think it’s been more often about stroking his own ego than a fair assessment of the performers overall and from week to week.

I think Simon likes to believe he is a musical kingmaker. AI didn’t give him enough control over the product so he conceived X-Factor which let him play with the talent more directly. Let him. I’ll be happy to enjoy the performers on American Idol, maybe with a little more honesty about good and bad performances rather than calculation about which “package artist” is going to make the sour British judge and his overlords look good on a balance sheet.

So yeah, I think American Idol will survive Simon Cowell. Some new blood might actually be just what it needs to reverse declining ratings.

Its like Idol with 3 times the manipulation. LOL. The contestants don’t just stand there and sing, they do these big cheesy stage numbers. And the judges coach people. I’ve just never liked it, it is ridiculously fake to me, and openly manipulative ‘“ even more than Idol. But that’s just me.

So it’s kinda sorta like AI, but they don’t get to pick their own songs (clearance issues aside) and the focus on the douchey judges shenanigans is amped up even more. Ew?

X-Factor sounds like a compilation of all the worst parts of Idol. I won’t watch it, and I’ll root for it to fail, but who knows? The Boyle thing means there’s a market for everything, at least once.

This. The one thing it will have going for it is the buzz. People will want to see if Simon’s off his rocker for quitting AI. And also, morbid curiosity is a powerful thing. See: rubbernecking at accidents, Jerry Springer, tabloid journalism.

If AI wants to survive and differentiate itself from Simon’s sideshow, they should nab Ben Folds and put the focus on the music over the razzle dazzle. He was the best thing about that Sing Off show. Also, Ellen + Ben Folds >>> Simon + Paula.

Randy became lazier and lazier with each year, unwilling to spend even a few hours a week working on his material so that he wouldn’t repeat himself each show. Paula couldn’t stay sober.

I share your disenchantment with the judges, and last season was the worst, but I disagree with this ^^. I think Randy substantially improved his material and was much less repetitive the past season or two. I really don’t think he gets the credit he deserves sometimes. And Paula was much more sober last season, she seemed to get her pill problem under control at least while on the air. She was more articulate also.

My solution to the judges is to dvr the show, and fast forward through the judges’ comments. Really I prefer to watch the performances and come to my own conclusions about them. The judges comments often do not add to my knowledge, but detract from my enjoyment of the show. Another solution is to mute them.

perhaps we can get sony to look at David Foster or someone of that stature.

Oh please, no. Not that. He would kill the show imo. It has to be someone likable and charming, while still being honest and witty.

In the UK, we get to watch both Idol and X-Factor in their entirety without resorting to YouTube. AI has more than halved its audience (<500k) over the years, admittedly on ITV2, while X-Factor on ITV1 has doubled. The finale got almost 20m viewers – that's the equivalent of AI getting 100m.

Now seeing that, and knowing that Idol with the same Simon Cowell became the #1 show in the US, Fox would be very neglectful not to, at least, give it a whirl and you can bet that now any of the other networks would bite off their hands to have the X-Factor (or indeed Idol). Nothing's guaranteed, of course, but what more encouragement does a network executive need than that kind of history and those stats?

As Cowell said in his brother's podcast, ITV pours more money into it each year and production is slick, bright and cheerful, something desirable in these grim days. I also think it benefits from an Autumn/Fall-Winter season. I've always felt the Idol stage is a bit dark and depressing with all those dark colors, and I like the way that Bootcamp, XF's Hollywood week equivalent, is broken up into a theatre session and a session at the judges "homes" or hotels – helps break-up the monotony of that week. The uncut contestants love it too.

The individual judge's influence in the mentoring process in XF is much exaggerated. Reportedly, Cowell actually gets someone else to do his mentoring and song choices are suggested rather than enforced. The real work is done by the back-stage staff.

Knowing both shows well, Idol tends to have more cheese offstage while XF tends to display more onstage – same cheese, just differently distributed and presented on the "plate." Idol has better strength (contestant, not cheese) in-depth than XF, but then with 5x the population from which to choose, it should. There is also no real genre distinction in XF, as there is little distinction in general in the popular UK music market.

Personally, I like both programs for their differences rather than their supposed similarities and I think both will succeed.

If we lose Simon, perhaps we can get sony to look at David Foster or someone of that stature. Afterall, I would watch for Davids ‘take’  on the idol contestants every week on Access Hollywood, just to compare.

I agree that we’ll need someone with some stature who is willing to be brutally honest, while also being entertaining. You know, pithy! However, isn’t David Foster that man who’s permanently stuck to the hip of Kat McPhee? Please, not him. He’s like the king of easy listening to me when he isn’t a proponent of whatever diva voice is on Idol that season. He’s passe to me. Old school Idol, when the show has moved on to contestants who are more multi-talented and relevant.

Scott to name just a few

It’s just how he does it. And I don’t expect to see press statement about him leaving Idol now. It’s too early, too honest, too simple – out of character for Simon.

It’s too bad none of them actually enjoy their own show and it’s performances to the degree Nigel, Shankman, Mary et all do on SYTYCD. So weirdly, maybe this ending is for the best.

I think the vast amount of money generated by the show kind of spoiled the people running it and getting paid by it, which happens not infrequently in business. Randy became lazier and lazier with each year, unwilling to spend even a few hours a week working on his material so that he wouldn’t repeat himself each show. Paula couldn’t stay sober. Simon not only recycled the same “bits” from his three different shows, this year he simply ignored the singers when he felt like it and talked to Ryan and the judges about other things.

And of course, the behind the scenes producers are notoriously indifferent about the themes and song clearances, leaving the show largely as reliant on thirty year old music as it was at the start.

And then the last two years of the judges and producers, both on the screen and in the media, declaring who they wanted to win the show, within the first few weeks of its start, have openly soured me on the whole contest aspect.

I love me some contestants–that’s the core of this show for me–and I’ve had my seasons of wins and loses with Fantasia, Bo, Daughtry, Cook and Kradison. But it was getting harder to watch the generally sympathetic young singers struggle against the manipulations of a bunch of hacky hacks.

X-Factor sounds like a compilation of all the worst parts of Idol. I won’t watch it, and I’ll root for it to fail, but who knows? The Boyle thing means there’s a market for everything, at least once.

As far as American Idol, I would hate to see it go away. I do not think that the odds for success are as high with both Paula and Simon gone. It may depend on how Ellen fits in this season and whether there is any chemistry between the other judges. If she is replacing Paula as Simon’s nemesis, it will make the show’s continued success even more difficult if he leaves the show. I do hope they keep the focus on the talent and provide them the necessary feedback to improve on their performance as artists/entertainers. Who knows, the show might be better without him. We have had many good artists come out of Idol and not all of them won the competition. It would be sad if the door opened by American Idol to bring us this untapped talent closes.

I do not agree that only “trained” and “non-industry working” talent be allowed on Idol. American Idol’s rules only prohibit artists that have signed a record contract. If they disallowed artists that have been working their whole life to break into the music industry, we would be missing out on some amazing voices and music today. If you look at the majority of people who make it into AI top 10, they have some type of experience in the music industry, either performing, or producing their own album and/or winning other singing competitions. David Archuleta, as young as he is, won Junior Star Search and performed on several TV shows, including “The Early Show.” Several contestants already had self produced albums ((David Cook (his album won several local awards), Kris Allen, Brooke White, and others)). Kelly and Adam did demo work for a record company and Adam worked in local theatre, not Broadway. Carrie was about to sign an album contract right before auditioning for Idol, but the deal fell through. She also won some singing competitions. All of these are extremely talented musicians and the Music Industry would be a sad place without these exceptional artists. If it were not for AI, we might never have heard their musical voice. There is more untapped talent out there so hopefully, AI sticks around.