Simon Cowell to Take A Larger Role on Idol – Nigel Lythgoe’s Departure? Maybe Not Such a Good Thing

Oh mj – I hope you are not right – what a sad program it will turn into. I am so glad David C and the others made it through this year.

If you are right – I can see it being a ratings bonanza – but I don’t see it producing a winner with a long-term career in music. I can’t begin to imagine what the tour would be like with personality divas leading the way.

Word. I just did a loooong post in the headlines thread where this link came up first working through my sense that this bodes badly for people who love the singing part of the show and especially, for the contestants.

I had never seen SYTYCD until this year when my nieces and this blog made me watch, and the qualities you mention were striking.

Like many entertainment execs, Cowell seems to be eyeing his proverbial goose that laid the golden egg with an enormous, dripping Ginsu knife.

I think there was a lot going on behind the scenes also this year. Simon didn’t get his way on a few contestants making the top 24 this year also. If anyone has the episodes saved, the first two performance nights, Simon seemed a little more cranky than normal.

The personality issue just makes me want to bang my head because this cast has TONS of personality. The show itself wouldn’t allow it to shine. Look at the themes this year. How many themes did we have that were CURRENT? Neil Diamond???? I have to agree with MJ here on the American Idol Extra bits, that top three interview where Cook just left Archie hanging then Archie sidles off is one of the funniest things I’ve seen! I think the phone call stuff on results nights was a good effort BUT it seemed to me that most of the calls focused on Simon instead of the idols.

Another thing, and you all may look at me like I have three heads, but although I agree with Simon’s critiques a lot, I think the last few years, Paula and Randy are better at seeing a diamond in the coal with some of the contestants. They are the ones who put Taylor, Daughtry, and Cook through.

I don’t think this might not be such a bad thing, Simon is the brains behind the X-factor and that show is fine

Very well said MJ!!

If I have to watch an idol eat maggots on toast points….I’m Done!!!

So glad I have no desire to watch AI ever again. Simon is such a hypocrite. Every bit of personality anyone dares to show seems to be squashed – both of the David’s were completely different at the beginning than at the end – standing and taking comments with no replies vs. the back talk from Cook and the adorable goofiness from Archie in Shop Around and Imagine. Also Carly and Brooke learned to be quiet quickly. I don’t think Simon likes personality.

It’s a tribute to this years talent that they managed to have so many fall in love with each them through their own research. Those that just relied on what the show showed them lost out.

- both of the Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s were completely different at the beginning than at the end

You are right on there! The whole Shop Around performance and aftertalk had me grinning from ear to ear.

One thing that made a difference in Archie and I say this because maybe it affected some of the others as well, is the ear pieces were taken away from them for awhile. I read that Dean Kaelin transcript and he said that David couldn’t hear himself especially when the girls would scream. It made him more nervous and not able to get into his performances as well as he could have. They took them away because they didn’t look pretty on camera. :rolleyes_wp: I would rather have a knockout performance!

Oh and if they are thinking of getting controversial performers so they can bicker back and forth, they lose me and my money. If I dislike someone, I don’t want to invest in them.

Here’s a novel idea – how about letting them sing a whole song and have fewer comments from the judges? In fact, eliminate judges altogether and I would totally watch again.

Okay, I’ve been thinking about this. My disclaimer is that I don’t trust Simon to make the show better by introducing more “jeopardy” at all. However, I do think it can be done and done well under the right circumstances.

For example, look at Rock Star. I loved that show. They did show the contestants all living in the Rock Star mansion and fighting over song choices. They made them try to collaborate in song writing competitions. They assigned challenging songs to them (see: Casey, Marty doing Britney way cooler than she ever did). They showed their personalities. None of this detracted from the artistic merits of the contestants. In fact, I would say the quality of musicianship on that show pwned AI. Of course, they mostly had cooler songs to perform.

BUT, would such changes go over with the AI audience? The “likeability” factor wasn’t as important as the ability to rawk. Plus, Rock Star didn’t do so hot in the ratings, no matter how much I enjoyed it.

ETA: Of course, the premise of Rock Star was doomed from the beginning. How many old bands can you drag out to find a new lead singer?

A lot of people in the UK think Simon Cowell purposely sabotaged “Pop Idol” so he can put HIS “X Factor” on air. I wouldn’t put it past him to destroy AI for an American version of X-Factor.

Message to 19E: hire our own mj as the producer!

Idol audiences expect their Idols to be humble, charming and gracious. Behavior thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s anything less gets your ass booted quick. Talking back to Simon is almost an instant ticket off the show. Better to reign it in than risk eviction

MJ, you are so right about this. In each of the early weeks at least one of the Idols who talked back to the judges was eliminated and/or in the bottom three. Some learned earlier than others to STFU after the judges spoke and not talked back.

A lot of people in the UK think Simon Cowell purposely sabotaged à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Pop Idolà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  so he can put HIS à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“X Factorà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  on air. I wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t put it past him to destroy AI for an American version of X-Factor

That is what I wanted to add to.

Simon in charge of AI is like to put the fox in charge of the henhouse.

I’m just happy the S7 kids got out before all this happened. I hate Nigel, but I do think Simon’s “input” is going to make the show worse.

The S7 kids had personality in spades. If they didn’t on stage at times it is for the reasons that everyone has so eloquently mentioned. They would have also had more personality if the show had given us glimpses of all the backstage antics that were only shown on all the other smaller Idol shows. I learned most of what I knew about the Idols from clips NOT aired on the show.

I also think Simon was just unhappy that there was so little drama last season. There were no diva antics and everyone pretty much got along. I guess it must suck when you have a stage full of well adjusted down to earth kids, or at least it sucks in terms of what Simon thinks makes good television.

I’m also glad that the 10 wonderful finalists of Season 7 made their mark (whether large or small) before any of these potential changes. But don’t at least some of a previous season’s participants make return appearances? I don’t relish the thought of their having to return to a show that has stooped beneath their dignity. How disheartening for such decent people.

It’s also hard to imagine that fans would buy tickets to a post-season concert tour that featured performers who were made to show their worst sides. Though I most looked forward to seeing DC perform this year (my only year!) I admired and looked forward to seeing all 10 of them.

How is X-factor different from AI?

I just don’t get why people (e.g., Nigel) were bored w/Season 7 .. I thought Cook & Archuleta were the most fascinating contestants I had seen on Idol in years. I was completely bored with every season in-between Season 1 and Season 7, though…especially Season 6. Season 7 rejuvenated my interest in Idol.

Before we canonize our current crop of Idols and the show that got them where they are, let’s not forget how we railed against the AI machine all season for their behind-the-scenes manipulations. Perhaps above board manipulations would level the playing ground. You never know. :devil_tb:

BUT, would such changes go over with the AI audience? The “likeability” factor wasn’t as important as the ability to rawk. Plus, Rock Star didn’t do so hot in the ratings, no matter how much I enjoyed it.

You make some excellent points, PJ, and the example of Rock Star is interesting to consider.

I loved Rock Star. It was fun to watch. A different sort of show, it was a weird hybrid of Idol and Big Brother. In between performances, we saw contestants: Getting drunk, fighting amongst themselves and with their families, screwing up, having moments of doubt. And in the context of that show–mostly taped and edited–it worked. Because they were all supposed to be cool rawkers, the tawdrier aspects weren’t disturbing.

The other thing, JD, the guy who won the competition? Would have been voted off the first couple of weeks if it were up to the viewers. He totally got the douche edit in the beginning. But he was able to stick around, because the Farris brothers were the ones who made the ultimate decision of who stayed and who went. Contestants could afford to act out or misbehave for the sake of good TV on Rockstar. They didn’t risk anything–unless they pissed off the Farrises. LOL.

But Idol, to me, has always been an innocent, feel good show (even if the behind-the-scenes crap isn’t so innocent), and I guess I want it to stay that way. Personally, I think there’s more than enough inherent drama in the live aspects of the show–where anything can happen and sometimes does. Watching the contestants struggle to stay in the game, find their footing, even the gradual make overs, make things plenty exciting for me. Call me a sap, but I actually like the camaraderie between the contestants and would hate to see that destroyed.

Adding the so-called “jeopardy” to Idol would have to be done very carefully without upsetting or screwing up a thing that already works pretty well as it is. Mark Burnett (Rockstar producer) might be able to do it. Simon Cowell? Hm. I agree with the others who have said that he needs to stick to what he does well on Idol–tossing those caustic barbs from the judge’s seat.

I really think last year’s ratings dip was over-rated. The writers strike screwed up the season and affected the ratings overall. If there was a problem, it’s that Season 6 didn’t produce any big buzz-worthy stars. Well, that problem has been solved with Season 7, hasn’t it?

Still, any TV show with any longevity has to continually tweak the formula to keep things fresh. Idol has always made changes from year to year, but they’ve never messed with the basic formula.

Something that’s not broken, doesn’t need to be fixed.

But Idol, to me, has always been an innocent, feel good show (even if the behind-the-scenes crap isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t so innocent), and I guess I want it to stay that way.

And that’s the core of the matter to me. AI is a family show to a good deal of it’s viewers, and lots of people tune in because they can watch with their kids and feel good about it… Hence the voter preference for well behaved, humble contestants. People who like drama and meanness tune in for the early rounds. The families stick out the whole thing. I don’t know if Simon fully appreciates that. If he adds “drama” to the later rounds, it needs to be of the type that will not offend that demo.

True, MJ, and my two overall faves this year (Jason and Brooke) would never have made it past the auditions of Rock Star. But at the same time, I think they have white-washed the behavior of these kids so much that we have no idea who they are. Yeah, the formula works, but it’s also disheartening. The contestants on Rock Star were allowed to show doubt or bravado, two things that aren’t allowed on Idol (see Jason for doubt and Cookie for bravado). Shouldn’t there be a happy medium???

I know this is a G-rated show, but can we have some better song selections? Better themes? For all its iffy voting, CI at least has some pretty cool songs that were cleared this year.

Yeah, Simon isn’t the one to energize AI. I know.

ETA: Every year since I’ve been watching the kids act like they all get along great but act like “brothers and sisters.” Right.

pj, I don’t think anybody is saying there isn’t room for improvement on Idol. I agree on better theme nights and better song selections and allowing us to see more of the Idols real personalities. When this season ended I already swore I wouldn’t watch next season due to some of the blatant producer manipulation making me sick. I know there is always producer manipulation, but I have never much been and Idol fan period.

What made me watch this season despite not liking everything about the show itself was this Top 10. This group made the show for me. Idols who I liked musically and also from a personal standpoint. In fact I think this Top 10 all have quite distinctive personalities, that is if the show allowed them to show them beyond the ridiculous boxes they tried to shove them in.

But the changes Simon is talking about are not the changes that need to be made IMO. The changes that they show needs are not to make it into every other typical backbiting reality show. The problem wasn’t lack of personality. It just seems to me that Simon’s is completely missing the boat on the part of Idol that needs to be fixed.

IMO, it was the talent on Rock Star that made that show incredible. Even the obvious cannon fodder (because of the type of singer they were looking for) was ultra-talented. There’s only been one contestant on AI that I thought could make it on either Rock Star 1 or 2.

Both AI and SYTYCD suffer greatly in showing ALL of the top 24 — yes, I am still seething over the way Mark’s name or likeness was rarely shown until the top 20, and he was never really given a backstory afterwards.

I think the contestants know too much about the “AI process” and it is time to shake it up some. Whether Simon can do that successfully or whether his idea of adding “jeopardy” is having contestants walk the plank into shark-infested waters as they are voted off…well, only time will tell…

All David Cook had to see to know what happens to a contestant with “personality” is watch his buddy Michael Johns get voted off. Hey Simon, it’s not that the contestants are “media savvy”, they’re just not stupid.

I also thought of Rockstar INSX right off. I’ll always remember the look on Marty’s face when upon meeting Suzie in the first episode she advised him he may have polyps on his vocal chords from screaming. And the naked JD sitting in his birthday cake at the end, and Suzie ate it afterward without knowing. Howler! All the moments of interaction made the show interesting. Idol had the mansion in the first and second season and made the films of them throwing each other in the pool, getting massages, playing pool, and we got to know them.
I’m going to be optimistic that maybe Simon changes the strict equality of gender, or maybe some nights 2 people go (like on Rockstar).

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll always remember the look on Martyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s face when upon meeting Suzie in the first episode she advised him he may have polyps on his vocal chords from screaming.

LOL. And Dave Navarro kept referring to her as “Sweet Suzie McNeil.” LOL. She did have a fabulous voice. Ah, good times.

All David Cook had to see to know what happens to a contestant with à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“personalityà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  is watch his buddy Michael Johns get voted off.

MJ’s personality didn’t get him kicked off Idol. He was pimped heavily at first, yet still never managed to get a fanbase to keep him in the race when he failed to perform up to par.

I’m going to cross my fingers that show improves next year. I guess we’ll find out…

I think Simon is trying to deflect criticisms of the shows own shortcomings. Trying to blame the contestants; I don’t think so. This season had the most attractive, talented and interesting over any other year so far. Even Archie’s shyness was so over top, we totally got his personality. Personality definitely wasn’t the problem this season. It was you and your friends Simon.

Speaking of personalities that are boring: Dawg, if Randy can’t find anything more interesting to say, why bother. He’s got about 3 catch phrases that he just s rotates through. Paula can’t even remember the script. Somebody give her cue cards. Although Paula’s train wreck can be entertaining sometimes, if the contestants are going to suffer, forget it. I’ll pass by the wreck without slowing down. And then there is Simon: his voter manipulations were completely transparent this year. He made my skin crawl.

I also believe what Archie went through with TMZ came from the producer attempting to spark controversy and interest in the show. At least not defending it or correcting the problem immediately gave speculation to its validity. But that is a topic unto itself.

Nigel: He was fired was over Paulagate I’m sure. Simon probably is scheming something. More power, money and control for him. Simon’s not looking for talented singers on AI. He taste runs more towards bad reality TV. Simon’s AGT sucks so bad. I’ve seen the clips of Hasselholf drunken banter on the AGT. Reality TV pays better dividends then singers these days.

Yes MJ, I agree that the web clips would be interesting to include in the show. Something that should go: cut off the extra half hour of results show. That’s just a start.

So much to say, so little time. First of all I was not with the crowd rejoicing when Nigel stepped down. Nigel is an excellent producer, and him stepping down had more to do with going with his bliss, Dance, than anything else.

My problem with Simon, who I respect an awful lot, is that his taste in music is so not what the idol viewers are interested in imho. I mean finding and signing Leona was dumb luck as far as I am concerned. She is like what would happen if Mariah and Whitney mated, just current. Then finding the perfect launch song. He hasn’t been able to do that in the US until now, not exactly a great track record for finding stars…..he would have taken a pass on Kelly cause she ain’t extra purty. He is sorta like the Springer type, in that I think he is out of touch with middle america. I mean Il Divo, need I say more? (I actually sorta liked them, but I have extreme tastes, extremely extreme tastes. My ipod is what would happen if a hurricane went through a record store and they let a chimp rearrange it, lol)

I think last season was incredible. I think the last two guys standing would have been the same two even without all of the manipulation. That is my biggest complaint. If America gets to chose, let them. Don’t force feed me a pretty non singing KLC, don’t feed the stripper to the wolves, you know once his backstory aired mom and pop aint having it. Same with Noriega, don’t give us the sweetness and then take it away, lol. Stop playing with the guys, let us make the decision. The back stories are a blessing and a curse, use them sparingly and not against the will of the contestant.

My choice would be to bring in a new MTV type producer to young it up a bit, cause if it remains as it is kids ain’t gonna watch. If they don’t mind the greying of their demographic then let it be, and it will die a natural death. Several years hence I might add, cause this show ain’t going anywhere, anytime soon.

I would love more current songs. I would love longer songs, let them get into it. I would love collaborations between contestants and seeing how that part played out behind the scenes. I know this would lead to a bit of manipulation, but this is america, we do that, period.

At the end of all of this though, I freaking love this show. I have watched almost every episode from day one. I have my favorite years, and favorite contestants every year, but the star of this show has always been the basic concept. Trying to find a singing star. For the most part, that part ain’t broke. Every year they have come up with great singers as the final two. Every year. What they do with that is another story, but even though my favorite doesn’t always win, in the end I think America gets it right. It’s a great show, and it doesn’t need alot of tweaking, imho.

I would love them to sing an original song like they did on RS. It doesn’t have to be a collaboration if that’s too much “drama.” It would show us more about who they are as artists. Somehow, I doubt these are Simon’s thoughts.

I have watched X-factor and I really dislike it. That show is all about judges manipulation, and Simon is the biggest manipulator on the show – e.g. lots of faked fair comments to all the contestants, but then when a big rival contestant make a tiny error or when he or she wasn’t particularly strong and may be vulnerable, he will pounce with the harshest unwarranted criticism to get the contestant voted off. Loathed it. I don’t particularly care for Rockstar either, most of the contestants seem to mistake hysterical screeching for expressiveness, and I haven’t seen another contestant in any show I dislike more than Dilana.

One thing I must say about Simon is that you are right about him being “all about the lowest denominator”. Watched him on Britain Got Talent, and one thing you can be sure of is that he will always choose a cute kid over someone older (so many kids on show’s finale that it can almost be titled Kiddies Got Talent). It’s the reason why he wanted to lower the age down to 14 for AI, they are the kind of contestants he likes, the kind that he knows will wow the kids, mums and grannies. He is completely clueless when judging someone like David Cook or Daughtry, which is why he rejected both of them on the show.

The contestants on Rock Star were allowed to show doubt or bravado, two things that arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t allowed on Idol (see Jason for doubt and Cookie for bravado). Shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t there be a happy medium???

Personally, I would love to see more honest emotions, I’m with ya there. But the problem here isn’t the judges, imo, but the viewing audience who generally don’t tolerate imperfection. Bravado tends to be interpreted as smug, and audiences like their Idols humble. Doubt as disinterest–viewers want their Idols to be enthusiastic and confident. Contestants can’t afford to let it all hang out on the Idol stage.

We see the quirky character traits in the very beginning, but the Idols quickly learn to reign them in.

Personally, I would love to see more honest emotions, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m with ya there. But the problem here isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t the judges, imo, but the viewing audience who generally donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t tolerate imperfection. Bravado tends to be interpreted as smug, and audiences like their Idols humble.

Yeah, and that is what I find problematic about the show and why I never watched it in the first place. It DOES appeal to the LCD. That’s what it was set up to do and it does it well. I certainly don’t love any of the bestselling albums that any of the winners have produced.

I think some sort of vulnerability is important for an artist to grow, but that’s not their business. Hence, KLC getting a deal and recording an album in 4 days.

He is completely clueless when judging someone like David Cook or Daughtry, which is why he rejected both of them on the show.

Hmmm…I guess I wouldn’t call his treatment of Cook as rejection (unless you meant early on in the season). Certainly by the Top 8 he came out and boldly said his favorite was Cook (on Larry King/Idol Gives Back).

The other thing, JD, the guy who won the competition? Would have been voted off the first couple of weeks if it were up to the viewers.

The viewers determined the bottom three, though, each week. The Farris brothers decided who to keep after the bottom three sang for their lives, much like the early rounds of SYTYCD. Point being, despite the villain edit, and maybe in part because of it, JD actually did manage to score a decent fanbase of loyal voters and didn’t hit the bottom three until there were only four or five rawkers left. Anyway, I enjoyed Rockstar and miss the format. It wasn’t perfect, but it did allow for a higher degree of creative expression and envelope pushing than AI.

It might be more exciting to see the contestants encouraged to take chances and let it all hang out. The trick would be encouraging that kind of thing for the sake of artistic expression and not for the sake of becoming an OTT reality show personality. I am afraid the latter is what Simon is getting at, though. I don’t know if the AI audience is ready for a Lukas Rossi or Jacob Hoggard type Idol, but it would be fun for me to see someone like that appreciated on AI, and I think that would probably never happen with Nigel still onboard. Not sure if it could happen with Simon exerting more control, either.

Point being, despite the villain edit, and maybe in part because of it, JD actually did manage to score a decent fanbase of loyal voters and didn’t hit the bottom three until there were only four or five rawkers left.

I’m remembering JD in the bottom 3 at the very beginning of the show, and the Farris’s making a big show of giving him a reprieve. No? Maybe he was almost the first person the Farris’ eliminated? I know that JD eventually gained a fan base, and by the end of the show he morphed into a decent guy.

Hmmmà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦I guess I wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t call his treatment of Cook as rejection (unless you meant early on in the season). Certainly by the Top 8 he came out and boldly said his favorite was Cook (on Larry King/Idol Gives Back).

He said no to David Cook in the Hollywood week, if Randy or Paula agrees with him, then it would have been a different David winning the American Idol. Similarly he said no to Daughtry during the audition, again it was Randy and Paula who saved him. The audition and the Hollywood week are the only times when the judges have absolute power over the fate the contestants, and the only time where the rejection by a judge of a contestant may matter, and the only time where the judgement of the judges is crucial to the survival of a contestant.

And it is exactly his turnaround on David Cook that shows what Simon is all about, and it is what Nigel Lythgoe said of him – he likes to appear to be right. I don’t think he knows how to judge rock music, but from Top 24 onwards the votes of the audience tells him that David Cook is good, and Simon duly changed his tune. He did exactly the same turnaround thing with Daughtry after rejection him for the show.

This could be a disastrous development. Simon seems to interpret “personality” as controversy and contentiousness. He really thinks the contestants should be at each other’s throats and he probably thinks an ideal show is one that features screaming fights, hair-pulling and one Idol punching another Idol out. The whole thing could start to resemble a belligerent season of The Real World.

Hmmm, this is all very interesting. Our household hadn’t planned to watch AI8, because we simply didn’t think anything would top this year.

However, we may just check it out after all just to see what kind of changes have been incorporated.

He said no to David Cook in the Hollywood week, if Randy or Paula agrees with him, then it would have been a different David winning the American Idol. Similarly he said no to Daughtry during the audition, again it was Randy and Paula who saved him.

Interesting…it was the same dealio with Kelly Clarkson. Simon thought she was “forgettable,” and wasn’t going to put her through from Hollywood week. Paula fought to keep her in. He could barely remember Kelly when she sang “Respect” in the top 30 performances (post-Hollywood week)….he said he just remembered that she “switched places with Randy” in her original audition, but other than that, he’d forgotten about her entirely.

I don’t know. They’re going to have to do something radical to get people to come back for AI8. Frankly, I see AI7 and the crowning of David Cook as the pinnacle of American Idol. I don’t see how any future season will ever measure up to AI7 no matter what they do. Perhaps Nigel wanted to go out on top which I believe will be the case.

He said no to David Cook in the Hollywood week

Simon is a Dumb A**.

Similarly he said no to Daughtry during the audition

Proving again that Simon is a Dumb A**.

Frankly, I see AI7 and the crowning of David Cook as the pinnacle of American Idol.

People have said that about every season. Everyone has their favorite season and even though I enjoyed it, AI7 sure isn’t mine. The one thing that AI7 did is get them their male pop star – something idol hadn’t been able to accomplish. Actually it may have gotten them 2 male pop stars!

Simon also didn’t like Bo at first (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GXXpRBsQAA). When it comes to rock, i think he simply doesn’t get it.

When it comes to rock, i think he simply doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get it.

I think Simon doesn’t get a lot more than that. While I’m fine with Simon as a judge on the show, he’s proven time and again that he’s not necessarily someone who has his finger on the pulse of pop culture. And, he’s pretty clueless about American music.

That America’s Got Talent show is just purely awful. From the low rent talent to some of the so called “celebrities” involved, it’s lowest common denominator all the way around.

So, greater involvement of Simon in the running of the show does concern me, but I’ll hope for the best.

I think you have to know the code when you listen to Simon. Personality = controversy or buzz. Idol needs folks to talk about it around the watercooler on Wednesday morning, the entertainment shows to lead with what happened on Idol on Tuesday night and Wednesday’s audience to be bigger than Tuesday’s and the following Tuesday’s to grow. That didn’t happen at all last season…except once. Tuesday’s finale show when Simon bashed Cookie’s performance had the press abuzz and fans voting like mad and tuning in Wednesday to what seemed like a huge surprise. You got to consider that this was all staged. They wanted Cookie to win, they knew he was ahead in the voting, so bashing him wouldn’t hurt him and would create the buzz they needed to insure a large audience for Wednesday’s big payoff show, the show in which FOX charges its advertisers higher fees based on the audience numbers.

Folks on Idol are sauve enough to realize that they can’t be dependent on the “personality” of the contestants each season. The contestants want to win and have a great deal at stake and you can’t put at risk millions of dollars each season for FOX based on what comes through the door. So, the buzz has to come from the judges. I expect more fighting between the judges (see X Factor), more controversial statements by Simon and who knows what Paula and Randy will be required to do.

While it would be nice for it to be about music, the truth is if I want music, I can turn on the radio. And while SYTYCD may take itself seriously when it comes to dance, that clearly isn’t a ratings winner by much because most of America doesn’t take dance seriously and shouldn’t be required to. Network TV is about entertainment, an escape from reality, some feel good moments, some exciting moments. If I want to be educated on dance or music, I’ll turn to PBS.

Oh, I have to disagree with the water cooler moment on season 7. It was Paulagate and Jason Castro. I think this overshadowed the finale as far as buzz. Everyone knew it was coming down to a David/David finale – they had planned this all season. It was just a matter of which David they wanted to crown.

I agree skylight129.

The judges said as early as Top 9 week that it would be a David-David finale. IMO, they then made comments to the others each week to be sure that that happened. It was so obvious, it was kind of sickening. Especially Randy.

I have to disagree with the water cooler moment on season 7. It was Paulagate and Jason Castro

I really wish this were the case. I think this was only important to Castro fans and Idol worked its magic and buried the issue. It should have outraged everyone but again, it’s entertainment. No one wants to picket a studio or even change a channel. And everyone did know it was going to be a David/David finale. That’s why buzz was necessary. Idol is always stuck between a rock and hard place on this. They have to pimp the good singers to make sure they make it into the finale and that robs the show of a lot of the surprise, so you got to create it artificially.

I like X Factor (the new season has started) a lot more than America ´s Got Talent so I ´m staying optimistic. (I like Britain ´s Got Talent more as well) SYTYCD was great this season but I think that ´s because Nigel is so passionate about it. I do like Nigel though so I don ´t really know how I feel about him leaving AI.
I liked everybody ´s personalities this season on AI but that ´s because I watched backstage interviews. I don ´t feel like they had enough opportunities to show their personalities on stage. I think Ryan likes to build up a question whereas Cat casually chats with the contestants.

Reading in what everyone has posted so far, I do think that the fact that contestants personalities isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t show in AI, mostly because those lame videos that they showed before everyone performance. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m most sure that Archie and Jason were probably both affected a lot in the editing of this videos, both of them are very smart, Jason with his SAT score and Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s got a 4.0 grade point average during his sophomore year at Murray high school in Murray, Utah, (since competing on American Idol, Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s g.p.a. dropped a fraction of a point when he received a B grade at the end of the last term), but people though they both were unintelligent persons mostly because of the way this videos portrayed them, probably the image that AI wanted to sell from both of them, Jason as a hippie and Archie as a silly kid. Some of you most agree that it was after they left the control media of AI that both of their personalities started to show

For me, it simply comes down to three simple things:

Show more back story – real, interesting backstory not all KLC and her horse or horribly tragic circumstances, but stuff like Elliott, Chris Daughtry, etc (can you see which season I liked best???)

Hollywood Week – deserves at least two full episodes, if not more. This is when a lot of drama occurs, and when you get to know the personalities of contestants. In past seasons this was some of the most fun of the show and the past two years they’ve shaved it down to one measly episode, bigtime bummer IMO.

Continue to have just a few mentors (one thing this season did well) but PLEASE have the kids sing something current. Neil Diamond? Please.

If they’re going to really screw with the format, I fear this is the year AI jumps the shark, and how sad that will be!

My sincere wishes for AI8:

Give all of the top 24 a backstory BEFORE the top 24

Don’t limit it to 12 girls and 12 boys

Bring back the group sings (one of my favorite parts) and two shows for hollywood — skip the “green mile” (most boring part of the whole season) and just show us the “dork dance” video of the top 24.

Will Simon do this –well, he might bring back the group sings because he likes a good fight between the contestants, but other than that — no.

I just expect more contestant humiliation/rumors/manipulation and badgering, except now he won’t pretend to hide it.

Is it possible that Nigel was the one holding the show back? Could it be he wanted his other project to be more successful? Could it be that maybe Simon stepping in is a good thing?

My suggestions, some stolen from Canadian Idol:

1. Get back to the half hour result show – now word was this is going to happen already and I applaud that change.

2. You can do group numbers that are not cheesy – see Canadian Idol results show – some of us were discussing this and we think the cheesy dance numbers were on the insistence of Nigel the Dance Man Lithgoe.

3. Let the contestants sing longer than one minute and 30 seconds, again on Canadian Idol they get at least 2 minutes 30 I believe, more time to prove their chops and it seems they get more time as the numbers dwindle,
I would let the poor kids do at least 3 minutes and just cut the blather.

4. I would love someone to have the guts to let the Idols do original songs one week and the coronation song, while improved from years past, just has to be something less cheesy – not sure what the options are there but something has to be done.

I will say that on the whole the Ford Commercials were actually very well done and highly amusing – the result of a young hip director and smart on Ford’s part to retain same. Could be hard to match next year.

I think this was only important to Castro fans and Idol worked its magic and buried the issue. It should have outraged everyone but again, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s entertainment.

I’ll have to disagree here. I think it was reported in every major entertainment magazine, and the issue got a lot of press. Just about every dj on a top 40 radio station that reports on idol talked about it the next morning. I think it’s the single largest amount of buzz Idol has received in years.

There’s a reason that Simon and the show felt the need to issue statements that Paula wasn’t being fired.

Is it possible that Nigel was the one holding the show back? Could it be he wanted his other project to be more successful?

I don’t think so. Nigel loves success. I don’t think he’d ever deliberately sabatoge any of his shows. AI has made Nigel a very rich man. I’m sure just like with any other show-runner, he made decisions thinking they’d work. Some did, some didn’t. But, I believe they were all made to make the show more successful, regardless of how they eventually turned out.

And Lavender1960, I’m totally with you on the 1/2 hour results show. There’s no need for it to ever be longer than that. I also agree that giving them another 30 seconds to sing would be a great idea.

I’m also in the camp with everyone else that they should get the opportunity to sing more current songs. I think with obvious iTunes magic that AI can work on a single, we’ll see more current artists releasing their songs for the contestants. Idol is such a huge money-maker that really, unless an artist is adamantly opposed to having their song on AI, 19 should be able to afford any rights they want.

I say if all of the artists today have no qualms about releasing their songs to 10 year olds for that horrid Kidzbop cd, they can’t all of a sudden find their artistic integrity to say no to idol.

When I read Simon’s comments about controversy I keep thinking about the moment in the show when he told someone – and I can’t remember who – that the other idols were not his/her friends not matter what he/she thought ( I think it was a he and probably Cook since that’s usually who I paid attention to.) The contestant sort of brushed it off like saying “yes, they are” which seemed to irritate Simon. Given that the top ten at least of S7 do seem to get along very well, could Simon be trying to prove his point by trying to create tension between the participants? He is right in that controversy sells but Idol seems to be doing well enough without stirring this particular pot. I’d hate to think the contestants are going to have to do something like vote against the weakest link or something.

Simon’s others US shows are horrible. But he’s pretty savvy about creating buzz and the S8 needs buzz. The Davids finale got great ratings but S7 showed overall erosion. Plus they’re losing the younger audience they care about.

I think they need to revamp/shorten the auditions. Make Hollywood week twice/three times as long and go back to groups. Hwood week is my favorite because you pick up on the personalities. I like the “green mile” myself.

I also think dropping the top 24 format isn’t a bad idea. They need to jazz up the middle with double eliminations, voting people back into, something.
They need to find a perfect combo of reality TV and talent show. I’m actually a bit interested to see how they change the show up although they’ll probably ruin in.

I’m sure everyone has a Season they think is the ultimate one. I’ll still go with S5 because it was Idol’s ratings peak (so far) and had the best combination of interesting personalities and talent I’ve seen yet. But finding the compelling back story plus legit talent that Daughtry, Elliott, Pickler etc. had ain’t easy.

I dont think the length of the results show was the problem just the content. I look forward to Idol each year and would even enjoy a 2 hour result show as long as it was filled with interesting bits about each Idols background, videos such as the ones MJ suggested. Or, the making of the Ford videos – just cut the phone in answers and less focus on the judges – more on the Idols. Make the results show entertaining and fun and I would love to see more of it not less, it only comes around a few months a year and I am so sad to see it end. OMG I hope Simon doesnt make it like Americas Got Talent, that I refuse to watch. I am afraid Simon will continue with the dum theme shows from years gone by, opera and so on. He admits he hates country and never really got the folksies as much – I sure hope it isnt all up to him.

The thing that I love about Idol is something that even Simon can’t control. I love the unexpected. The contestant that comes out of nowhere. The contestant that Idol is not expecting and there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop them. The contestant that causes such a sweeping wave of support across the nation that it is a beautiful thing to watch. I LOVE when Idol is outsmarted, outplayed and does not get the winner it wants to fufill their current marketing strategy.

It’s a good thing, lol.

Okay, how about this? Simon can create a separate reality show with a house full of 24 fans, one representing each of the top 24. They will live there for the entire AI season, but each week the fan of the idol that gets voted off will have to leave. Hubby’s idea. LOL. I think perhaps it may be easier to get the fans to go after each other than the actual idols themselves.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m remembering JD in the bottom 3 at the very beginning of the show, and the Farrisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s making a big show of giving him a reprieve. No? Maybe he was almost the first person the Farrisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ eliminated?

Ohhhhhh, my bad, totally forgot about that. I think that was the first show, and the procedure was different? Wracking my brain and coming up blank, but I do remember he didn’t have to sing an INXS tune until fairly late in the game.

And to segue back to the original topic, as long as there’s talk of improvements, can they get the House Band from Rock Star? Those guys were kickass musicians, and, well, really hot. (Yeah, I know, it will never happen.) I would love more current music, though, and original songs. Again, probably not what Simon has in mind.

Like Ziggy said:

The thing that I love about Idol is something that even Simon canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t control. I love the unexpected. The contestant that comes out of nowhere. The contestant that Idol is not expecting and there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop them. The contestant that causes such a sweeping wave of support across the nation that it is a beautiful thing to watch. I LOVE when Idol is outsmarted, outplayed and does not get the winner it wants to fufill their current marketing strategy.

Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a good thing, lol.

Season 5: Taylor Hicks! :clap_tb: :wub_tb: :thumbup_tb:

MJ, Simon told the Mirror that he was eliminating all the sob stories from his TV shows and moving back to focus on pure talent :ponder_tb:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/latest/2008/08/24/x-factor-simon-cowell-says-stop-all-the-sobbing-115875-20710175/