Season 8 Top 36 Contestant Junot Joyner on Idol: “It’s A Fixed Thing If I Ever Saw One”

As in ALL reality shows you basically sign your life over to TPTB. And of course you probably are all a tizzy when given the opportunity to participate so you may not weigh all of the consequences early on. But, oddly, a reality show is “reality” in that it has its pros and cons, its good with its bad, etc. etc.

I positively despise “sour grapes” and I cannot abide someone who thinks it is their place to “tell all” after the fact. It speaks volumes about someone’s ego and their own sense of entitlement. My take is that JuNot has had something offered to him sometime in the last few months that he has had to put on hold because of his 19E Contract and this has left a very bitter taste in his mouth. And if he was vocal after being chosen for the top 36 and making waves about signing, of course 19 isn’t going to be real happy with him and so they aren’t about to allow him to manipulate the terms of his contract, that’s human nature and corporate thinking at its base level.

And as for him not making “wild card”, well he should have done more to make it into the top 12 by capturing the viewing audience and getting them to vote him in.

Way to NOT get a contract in the future, Ju’Not! And what exactly is he saying about Adam and Kris? That it was was fixed for Adam? That he shouldn’t have even been allowed on the show? As for favorites, what about Danny in that case or Lil, who were also pimped as much as Adam was? And with Kris…what…that they *wanted* him to win as the dark horse? They pretty much dismissed him until Top 5, IMO.

I don’t get it, and I think Ju’Not better rethink what he is saying, b/c the industry does NOT want to hear it. 19 has a lot of power; this is not going to bode well for him. Sorry, dude, you didn’t make Top 13. But I don’t think Matt or Kris were expected to go as far as they did. So…whatever.

Rigged? No. A scripted reality show? Yes, absolutely. But then again, we all knew that didn’t we?!

Maybe I should care more, but all I can think is “whatever.” It’s a reality TV show. He tried out. After 7 seasons, it was obvious to anyone how it worked.

And big guy/little guy contracts are rarely fair, but there’s nothing you can do about it. Have you ever tried to negotiate a mortgage contract? It ain’t gonna happen.

Life lesson Junot.

Growing up in the school of hard knocks. No better education around, and most of the time it’s free (but sometimes costly.)

Imagine TPTB thinking this guy could be difficult to work with. :rolleyes_tb:

I didn’t really like him on the show and this just adds to that dislike. It sucks that he didn’t make Top 13, but he was in no way the Idol screwed most for screen time…that would be Kris, and he won the damn thing. Taylor won the show and got “gang banged” (so eloquent, Junot) by TPTB and he hasn’t whined this much, haha.

I bet he’s regretting what he did.

I feel compassionate for him and I do think it is fair for him to tell his side of the story. It may not be the best “business” move but definitely fair- free speech and all. Besides, I doubt anyone but die-hard AI fans who read the stuff online will even hear about Ju’not’s public distaste for the way he was treated.

Btw, didn’t he try out again this year? Didn’t Danny say that he did?

Well of course it’s a reality show, not a talent contest. Having been to Hollywood once before, he should have known what the deal was. And if you don’t want them to use your backstory, you need to give them a new hook to use to establish your character.

Frankly, if he wasn’t willing to be the reformed gang member trying to make a better future, what was he doing on the show?

Of course, I do agree that they planned/hoped for an Adam (gay secular Hollywood) vs. Christian final (Danny, Kris, Matt, Michael, Lil, Jasmine all could fit the plot). Except that Kris and Adam became friends and screwed up the whole thing.

And as for him not making ‘wild card’ , well he should have done more to make it into the top 12 by capturing the viewing audience and getting them to vote him in.

Well, of course, winning his round outright would bypass the producers (like Kris and Allison managed to do the previous week). But to be fair to Ju’Not – good luck with that. Lil Rounds had the pimpage and the pimp spot. (And, to be fair to Lil, gave her best performance of the season.) Scott McIntyre – no way was Ju’Not going to bump the blind guy. So that left him, Jorge, Von, Kendall, Felicia and Kristen all giving good performances and vying for that third slot. Jorge got the votes.

After that it was out of the publics hands and totally up to the producers. They picked the wild cards (only their pre-pimped Von was asked from Round Three) and then they picked the finalists.

The amazing thing is that this could so easily have also been the Kris Allen story. The only difference was the most of the Round Two contestants sucked, which opened the door for Pocket Idol to sneak through without any producer intervention.

nvm

Suebrody- This is what I think he was trying to say. Based on watching the show and being on it, he saw that they were pushing for Adam (along with the other obvious frontrunners). He was saying that Kris deserved to win based on his own perception that Idol was pushing some of the others to win, and was happy (?) that Kris won because it seemed like the producers didn’t. I don’t think it has anything to do with who he thought should win based on it being a talent competition, but more on who should win despite producer manipulations? (so I don’t think he was dissing or saying Adam did not deserve to win, but more like TPTB did not deserve a win) I don’t know.. hard to explain. I don’t know why I even try. haha

Seriously, dude, you reprised your Hollywood song for your first full performance. Not exactly a great way to show your creativity to the voters. And yeah, I’m going to have to agree with the people who say manipulated-but-not-rigged.

You know, Adam actually said the most interesting thing during his Idolatry interview on this subject. He said the other way to look at these strict contracts is you have a bunch of people invested in you – since they own a piece of your sucess. Ask Adam, Kris or Allison how they feel about it. Everyone outside of the top ten is released from their contract pretty fast I think (though I don’t know).

Contest guided how 19 wants it to go…sure…!

I actually thought he was good, but hey if you aren’t going to play the game, you may be setting on the sidelines.

JuNot who…?

Sounds like a soar loser!

His loss!

JuNotJoyner MJ they called sour..ha! Sour would be slamming other contestants. I just told the truth. Some folks should be banned from talking.half a minute ago from ceTwit

I’m glad Ju’Not was able to speak out. Even though we all know the show is very very manipulated, it’s obvious there’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind closed doors that people like Ju’Not want to let off their chest. Like he said, he has a kid to feed, you don’t want to sign your life away recklessly, which it sounds like AI was trying to get him to do.

I’m glad he tried to fight back. Especially against Ken. And I hope his album rocks faces.

I don’t know about those [votes? '“M]. They sit us down and tell us it’s fair blah..blah’ ¦but who knows. Do you think a billion dollar enterprise is subject to the whim of the public?

I had some sympathy for his rants, until reading this. He’s pretty much accusing the show of illegal activity based on nothing but a hunch. The fact that he frames it as a question keeps it from being libelous, but it comes awfully close.

I’m agreeing with the manipulated but not rigged group as well. I think it fairly obvious the votes are manipulated – the annual voting conspiracy / voting blocks / whatever just prove that fact. And the fact that AI does nothing to resolve the issue just makes me think they don’t see it as an issue.

But no way are the votes rigged. The show would go down in flames if that was ever divulged – and even the AI powers won’t take that chance.

Omg, MJ.. someone doesn’t like you! LOL.. too funny

@dollymiiix Rickey’s cool. He’s fair.
16 minutes ago from ceTwit in reply to dollymiiix

I really don’t like sites like Mjsbigblog.com. Even when I performed she hated. If I wanted a record deal, I’d have one. I’m indie retard.
31 minutes ago from ceTwit

Now, I don’t feel bad in shunning him. haha.

ETA: okay, adding more.. I see right through him.. haha

@reoracer No prob. Hope it was informative. Get me more followers. LET THE LIGHT SHINE!!!!!!!!

Holy Crap! I’m still only on page 15 of last night’s thread and now this … when will I ever catch up?

This is too bad, I really liked Ju’Not and was pulling for him ‘“ he was my front-runner for a wild card spot. But I’m sorry, this does not bode well for his likability or his professionalism. If he was still trying to work other in-roads into the industry, he’s just shown himself to be difficult to work with and who can afford that right now?

Bottom line: Life is not fair in Idoland. I think everyone knows that, but these kids are signing up for a potentially life-changing opportunity. In most other reality shows, participants are exploited unmercifully. It sucks, but it’s part of what you sign on for.

So my favorite part about this is he’s now slamming MJ on Twitter like a 3rd grader, ahaha.

I think under proper circumstances, these issues, being asked to sign a contract without being given a copy of the whole document first, being told not to ask questions, being unable to hire and consult your own attorney, would be considered duress and the contract would be voidable. The problem is you really can’t raise this defense until you sign the contract, break the contract and have AI sue you first. If you try to say, “Well, this is duress, I’m not signing this contract,” AI’s response will be, “Well, this is the door, use it.” Then the contestant is forced to sue AI based on the lost opportunity — but for AI’s bad behavior in trying to force me to sign a contract I didn’t read, I would have gone on to win AI. Try to prove that.

Hmm… Can we think of anyone who got even LESS screen time than JuNot, who was obviously never a favorite, but ended up WINNING the whole thing? I actually never got why this guy was so praised, but I think that Kris Allen winning proves that if you are *talented* enough, you can still go far on Idol (at least passed the first round!)… This guy just didn’t have it!

I am happy that Idol’s blatant favoritism gives him something to blame, though

LOL, AC. In some ways, I think Adam had a harder uphill climb. Okay, yes, he was pimped like crazy, but the public bought it, and they might *not* have after RoF. He got crucified by Simon that night, and if he was ever going to go, that would have been the night. After it, he played it a lot more “strategically,” but I think he got lucky that week (I loved the performance, but my sister HATED IT–he didn’t do a country song, he’s flamboyant, blah blah, and shock, she loves Danny). Adam has a boatload of talent, and a lot of people saw that. And as he says, he won *despite* being so unusual (the judges didn’t vote for him, the viewers did). The pimping didn’t help Lil, and it slowed way down for Danny, and so I am not buying Ju’Not’s argument that it had to go Adam v Danny or Kris or Matt. I think they expected Lil v Danny, to be honest.

Also, I think TPTB really wanted Jasmine and Jorge in the Top 10 (Jordin demographic and Puerto Rican guy) but they weren’t as good as others (oh, Ricky Braddy and Mishovanna, how you deserved Top 13!), and so no go. I am still a little puzzled as to why Alexis didn’t make Top 10 (pitchy? What about Megan?), and am still bummed out about it, but the voters didn’t pick her, and they weren’t exactly ga ga (caw caw) about Megan, but she moved on.

As far as Kris: he deserved to go Top 2, if not win, b/c he just got better and better, and he was about as quiet about his religious background as you could be. And I do not for one minute believe that TPTB wanted him there. They wanted Danny and Danny ultimately did not deliver. And what about Allison? Who thought SHE would go Top 4? Not the judges, IMO.

Top 36 gets you exposure. After that, well, a lot of it is on yourself, and Ju’Not was not as good as a lot of other contestants, many of whom still did not make Top 13.

ETA: He is slamming MJ on Twitter? Better get back over there. Stupid, stupid, stupid guy.

wait a minute, do you mean that at the very beginning, they already pick out who they want (or several people) and then they script the show to make that person showcase themselves so that the viewers would want to vote, and then for the ones they want to possibly lose or look like an idiot, they also manipulate the show to suggest to the viewer to love them or hate them or think they are weird? I always thought something like this,, its like American idol seems to script some things to make the outcome the way they’d want. am i sorta explaining it right?

wait a minute, do you mean that at the very beginning, they already pick out who they want (or several people) and then they script the show to make that person showcase themselves so that the viewers would want to vote, and then for the ones they want to possibly lose or look like an idiot, they also manipulate the show to suggest to the viewer to love them or hate them or think they are weird? I always thought something like this,, its like American idol seems to script some things to make the outcome the way they’d want. am i sorta explaining it right?

I hope this is snark…. because, duh.

I really don’t like sites like Mjsbigblog.com. Even when I performed she hated. If I wanted a record deal, I’d have one. I’m indie retard.

So what the heck was he doing in AI if he doesn’t want a record deal? Good thing he didn’t go any further if he’s serious about that. I kind of doubt he is, though…

I went back to Top 36 post to see what MJ wrote about him and here it is:

“This arrangement is going nowhere. I sense Ju’Not may have a good voice, but I can’t tell. He’s going for something subtle here, but his phrasing is dull.”

I’m not seeing any hating. If he can’t take criticism he shouldn’t be performing, especially in a TV competition. Every performer should accept that not everyone is going to like them. It’s just the way it is, no matter how good (or not) you are.

yeah, thats the way reality tv shows work, but it doesn’t mean it is right and he shouldn’t express his frustration. if we give the TPTB a pass on their manipulations (its a show, nobody said life was fair etc) then we also must allow jilted contestants to give their feedback.

i was actually more interested in his diss of Ken, as he seemed to prefer Nigel….wonder if the feeling was shared backstage by the crew /’ production team . i want scoop!

Blah blah, bittercakes blah blah. Seriously, whatever to this guy. Gasp! it’s a reality show and not a talent contest! The hell you say. The show tries to rig things and is manipulative! The hell you say! 19Evil has restrictive contracts! The hell you say! To which I say DUH. And even with the restrictive contracts, it’s STILL a better shot at getting into music, than most of these people could ever have gotten. Though yes, as Kelly’s recent issues point out, it CAN definitely be a very restrictive contract later on. Still Kelly wouldn’t be in the position she was in if not for AI. And yes, AI wouldn’t be in the position it’s in, if not for Kelly as it’s first winner, who has been successful and has actual talent and is very likeable. Nature of the beast all the way around.

‘What would potentially be more profitable for 19′ ¦

- Adam wins and Kris comes in second

or

- Kris wins and Adam comes in second

In my opinion, Adam has more potential for a successful career as the runner up, than Kris would as the runner up! Where Kris is much more marketable as the winner, and Adam still is going to have a huge following as the runner up.’ 

I can’t hate on Ju’Not for being bitter. I haven’t seen AI backstage shenanigans first-hand, but I can only imagine that it’s as pretty as making sausage. The AI contracts probably do suck. Some of the contestants may figure it’s all worth it; others may disagree.

I also can’t hate on him for wondering if the votes really count, because I’ve gone back and forth on that myself over my AI-watching years. And scripted judges’ comments? Well, anyone with an ounce of observational skill can see that.

So all in all, I wish Ju’Not good luck in the future. Yeah, he is bitter, but I can see how someone in his position might be.

yeah, thats the way reality tv shows work, but it doesn’t mean it is right and he shouldn’t express his frustration. if we give the TPTB a pass on their manipulations (its a show, nobody said life was fair etc) then we also must allow jilted contestants to give their feedback.

Indeed. I have no problem with the guy speaking his mind.

Taylor won the show and got ‘gang banged’  (so eloquent, Junot) by TPTB and he hasn’t whined this much, haha.

Indeed.

MJ, you said alot of the same things I said earlier in regards to his little chat. He is so wrong in the real gist of the matter.

The show is manipulative, duh? That was the very nature of this show. Even season one had a winner who was not one of the early favorites wind up winning the whole thing. The manipulation never works as the viewers make the outcome, no matter what. Rigged, come on, you gotta give me more than your word JuNot. I know the contracts are restrictive, but the alternative, just ask all of the people, just as talented that will never get their foot in the door. It’s even harder now that ever before.

I liked the dude on the show, and thought he should have gone further, however, I think he is not as astute as he is trying to portray himself to be. The very idea that he tried out again, after making it to Hollywood last season speaks volumes to me. If it had been a more favorable result for him, he wouldn’t be complaining. That said, I still want his version of Hey There Delilah, I loved it!

I think he bit himself in the ass. It’s funny I always wanted a former contestant to spill, but when they do, it seems like more bile, than candor. Certainly didn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know or suspect.

Personally, i did not care at all for Ju’Not and found his ‘hey there dilaiah’ quite a bore. I was thrilled when he did not make the wildcard, and in all honesty, i thought he was WAAAAY over-praised when he preformed for the first time in the semis, especially by Mr. Cowell. I actually thought he got positive special treatment.

Is the show rigged? No. Do certain contestants get more camera time than others? Yes. Why? Because 1) it’s a reality show and people need to connect to these contestants on more than just a performance level – and certain contestants have a more compelling story than others (compelling = fans/viewers) 2) Most of the contestants who are ‘pimped’ are, normally, vocally deserving. Can you honestly tell me that had Danny, Lil’, or Adam (all 3 pimp spotted in the semis) been given ZERO camera time prior to their semifinal performance, that they would not have stood out above all the others in their group vocally? I mean if you can sing like that and the producers know your going to be the best of the show, why not let them go last? IT’S SMART. They would have made it thru anyways, so quit bitching.

It’s not a perfect system, and only considering screen time and how they performed, there was a healthy balance of contestants in the top 13. Allison was ONLY given a 5 second singing clip prior to the semis and an early spot in her semi group and she was a NO brainer that night to make it in the top 13, WHY?! Because her voiced proved that. She was not pimped by the producers at all. Same goes with Kris, and his man in the mirror wasnt even that good. Ju’Not doesn’t know how to play the game.

Bottom line, the producers can manipulate camera time all they want, but what it boils down to is: Be the best and give a damn good vocal and people will vote for you- there’s NOTHING the producers can do about that.

Honestly, nothing would surprise me. I watch the show, it entertains me, but I’m not expecting honesty from a reality contest like this. There are only 2 things that matter: profit and ratings. What can you expect from the producers? I would be surprised if there was proof that this kind of things didn’t happen or if we got to see a leaked copy of a fair contract for the contestants. But that won’t happen, so honestly, this kind of things does not surprise me.

What does he mean with “sites like MJsbigblog.com”? Knowing the blogging industry, I know that this is as professional, objective and serious as an idol blog gets.

I wish him good luck, he is a talented guy, and after all, he got more exposure than many singers trying to make it ever get.

I’ve heard it bandied around that the runner up only has to stay with their 19E label for a year, and the winner for 5 years. I don’t know where those numbers come from, but it’s probably true that the runner ups have some more freedom contract-wise, and that makes me happy for Adam.

We already knew that Idol was fixed. As for the voting numbers, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were tweaked too–who would know? It doesn’t seem like a lot of people have access to that info. It’s probably unnecessary to tweak them anyway though, since voters are easy to manipulate.

The lawyer thing, though, is just messed up. If he understood that situation correctly, that’s too exploitative.

As we started discussing in other thread, the votes are 100% real. (As are quiz shows and sweepstakes prizes. Laws are real, too.) With safeguards to keep them that way. Besides illegal, scandal is just too expensive. Kills your cash cow. While real voting keeps it mooing.

But even more real is the jeopardy of audiences leaving if you don’t provide season after season of solid entertainment. To do that, you have to control every detail you can. Like who’s in your top 36. If you were producing, and had 10 or 12 equally talented singers from whom to choose, wouldn’t you go for the most interesting mix?

What is very real, and not controllable, even by judge’s efforts, is the singing. Those contestants stand up there, open their mouths and determine their future. No amount of editing can fix a live performance. Or contestants who don’t work the system to their advantage – listen to the mentors, seek advice about song choice, woo the stylists, act grateful on camera, strategize their game.

The producers know who they want and they slant it to reflect that. They fix it in a way that makes you surprised but it’s still manipulated.

Think about it’ ¦ADAM, ADAM, ADAM then’ ¦Kris’ ¦.SURPRISE SMITHCHES!!!!

The way I interpreted this was that they made it look as if they wanted Adam, but in actuality they were setting us up for the big “surprise” ending. The “classic twist” to cause controversy….and I’ll have to admit, if that was what happened, They succeeded. I think when he says “smitches” he is referring to us gullible viewers rather than TPTB.

Now, I kind of had this idea all along…except I think the object of their affection was Danny, not Kris (it would be ludicrous to think they ever pimped Kris)…Danny screwed himself out of singing “NoBo” which DID, in fact sound as if were written for him, when he “shocked” us with the scream heard round the world.

There is probably some grain of truth to what he says (btw…I did think he was good enough to make top13), but he is not making his case in the best possible manner. Doing it this way tends to look like sour grapes even if he has a legit gripe.

So my favorite part about this is he’s now slamming MJ on Twitter like a 3rd grader, ahaha.

Hilarious. I thought of adding an update to my front page. But, I refuse to acknowledge him. It’s exactly what he wants.

He’ll have to get more twitter members in another way.

Maybe Rickey will suck up to him because he called Rickey “fair”.

I could care less if these contestants like me or not. A new season starts, I move on to the new crop. Next. YAWN.

Honestly I didn’t think he was all that good and definitely didn’t deserve a wildcard spot….his Hey There Delilah was beyond boring. He got some decent screen time in the early rounds, didn’t he?? I mean I knew who he was….I remember having to look up Kris’ picture when I read the spoilers haha.

I’m sure it probably went down like this but he just sounds like a big whiney baby that things didn’t go his way. All reality shows have tight contracts….I know someone who tried out for Rockstar:INXS and actually made it through to be on air and then backed out after he read the contract….I can’t remember the exact details but it was a descending percentage over 7 years, and that was for a show in it’s very first season, I imagine AI is way tighter. ( Oh and of course I’m not talking about Chris D., he didn’t make it that far.)

I don’t think he “vented” just to vent ….he was just responding to questions and the begging from folks to “tell it”

I don’t want to get into the personality preferences…or prejudices….

I do want to say however, that I am disappointed in 19 for not allowing the contestants the necessary time (and perhaps personal attorney) to review a contract that could ultimately alter their future and the future of their loved ones.

Don’t quite understand why they wouldn’t give the contestants that opportunity unless there was stuff in said contract they knew was questionable.

If I was an artist, singing and/or writing my own music, (as he was), I’d for SURE want to make it clear that I wasn’t turning over any ownership of my stuff to 19.

It appears shady and manipulated, and that’s what bothers me about the interview’s tidbits…………I truly don’t think it needs to be….give the guys 24 hours to review the contract with whoever they want to….sign or don’t sign, and if they sign, hand over a copy of what they just agreed to.

“What would potentially be more profitable for 19′ ¦

– Adam wins and Kris comes in second

or

– Kris wins and Adam comes in second

In my opinion, Adam has more potential for a successful career as the runner up, than Kris would as the runner up! Where Kris is much more marketable as the winner, and Adam still is going to have a huge following as the runner up.”

I have always believed this. Now, with Adam taking the tour by storm it solidifies my theory.

As for bitter, of course he’s bitter! Most fans of the show are bitter in some way about the manipulation. He was actually a contestant– if I were in his position, I would want to speak out too. And I do think he is telling the truth as he sees it, and some of the info he says is *interesting*–I won’t believe him at once but it’s interesting. In a bitter-inducing way.

But in the end, it’s so, so easy to manipulate the voting public that I think telling Ju’not “you should’ve just performed better” isn’t fair. He performed really well, in an understated way. And he was thrown under the bus.

We are not a die hard American Idol franchise fan,. It is a business, and I am not inclined to pay homage to one .
After reading that the founder Simon Fuller sold 19E to its current parent company CKX for more than 200 Million and also sold American Idol to Fox network – as some publications said he earned another 200 Million from that deal. So that is it – big bucks . They will not fool around with sentiments. And yes they will manipulate.

Our enjoyment comes from chosing a singer to cheer on. Whether he was the producers choice at the start we did not care, we chose whom we wanted. This season our first choice was Adam and the second choice was Kris and our third choice was Allison. This was evidenced by our itunes download – we had all of Adam’s, three of Kris and two of Allison’s. All the rest we did not download.

In the beginning of Season 8, my family and I got the impression that the producers favorites were Lil and Danny. My niece even showed me an article where after that final selection of the top 9 finalists ,Lil and Danny and their respective families got together for dinner. My niece thought l it was a press release to kind of float already the idea that these are the chosen ones. I recall this conversation because my niece was upset as she was already rooting for Adam and Allison.

Unfortunately for the producers – Adam opened his mouth and startled everyone with the voice and the performance . I do not think the producers had confidence that Adam would click . Yes they allowed him free reign, they probably thought he would run smack right into a wall – crash and burn. But he did not.
Unfortunately Kris bloomed and gave us memorable songs. And the most unfortunate of all , the two became fast friends along with the Allison from their batch.

And like any good businessmen – American Idol switched gears . Who did they sign first ? Well the vocal and musical triumvirate – Adam, Allison and Kris.

Sorry, no amount of sour graping will change the natural flow of business – business will adapt to a popular talent. If you have the talent , and you hook the viewers, then you get the contract.

This will go on . The voting will not matter , it is just a form of making the viewers believe in their power to choose . Multiple voting will not represent the revenue. No person buys 500 CDs nor 500 concert tickets.
At end of the day it will be one person , one sale .
At end of the day it will still be revenues that will be the boss.

one reason the votes aren’t fixed….Taylor Hicks! LOL simon couldn’t stand him, it seemed 19 didn’t really jump for joy when he won. IF it was up to producers, Daughtry would have won or at least come in second. hmmm, which makes me wonder….did the back stories, pimping increase after THAT season?? it was pretty strong seasons 7, 8….i don’t recall before

Hilarious. I thought of adding an update to my front page. But, I refuse to acknowledge him. It’s exactly what he wants.

I’m really glad you decided not to do that!

And I always have a soft spot for the people who never accept that “life is just unfair” and try to change things. Even if Ju’not went about it in a silly way, and is bittercakes–still. I don’t like the “that’s just the way it is” mindset, lol.

I’m agreeing with the manipulated but not rigged group as well. I think it fairly obvious the votes are manipulated – the annual voting conspiracy / voting blocks / whatever just prove that fact. And the fact that AI does nothing to resolve the issue just makes me think they don’t see it as an issue.

The voting blocks show a passionate fanbase, not manipulation. Manipulation is giving the judges scripted comments, giving some contestants a backstory, but not others, pitting contestants against one another based on anything besides their singing, over or under praising people, using fancy camera angles/lighting for some contestants, but not others, and I could go on. The contestants are suppossed to fire their bases up so that they don’t mind voting for hours at a time, or so that they will have parties where everyone votes together, that’s the point of the show. If it was just a talent show, there would be no need for the public to vote.

Ok, so went to check out the article and don’t remember the guy AT.ALL. Must have been brilliant, I’m sure he should have won.

I don’t consider anything JuNot “revealed” to be shocking or surprising — maybe I’m getting cynical in my middle age. AI is a reality show and the producers will do whatever it takes to get the highest ratings possible, and if that means being manipulative, that’s what they’ll do.

It’s not surprising that AI, like all reality shows, is a “casted” show — Simon even admitted this during one of the shows (I think it was post-Hollywood week) when he said “now we have to cast the show, so we’re not going to just put the boring singers through”. Adam and Lil also talked about this in their interview with Richard Rushfield before the Portland show. Re: his audition, Adam said (I’m paraphrasing) that he knew he could sing, but he wasn’t sure if he was what the producers were looking for. He said they seemed to be looking for an undefined “something”, and he wasn’t sure if he had it. I think that special “something” included an interesting backstory; I also think the contestants are chosen to represent different “types” (or maybe stereotypes) to create drama and maybe even some tension. Hmm, a gay guy from Hollywood in a house with 4 church leaders from the Midwest and South … Coincidence? I think not. And remember, this was the first year that AI put the contestants in a house together (with cameras). At least the contestants foiled the producers on this one — they got along so well together there was no drama to film.

Regarding the contracts, it’s not surprising that it’s a “take it or leave it” deal. The producers know that on their own most of these contestants would never get the kind of exposure they get on AI, so the producers can afford to play a little hardball.

Finally, I’m having a hard time feeling sorry for JuNot. If it’s true that he auditioned more than once, he should have known what he was in for. Fact is, if it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t even know who he is.

We’re not supposed to talk about the blog on the blog, but maybe in this case it’s on-topic to the thread? If not, I’ll trust MJ’s discretion to delete this:

What does he mean with ‘sites like MJsbigblog.com’ ? Knowing the blogging industry, I know that this is as professional, objective and serious as an idol blog gets.

There’s still a difference between blogging and reporting, even though the lines are getting blurrier these days. Take a look at MJ’s remarks on last week’s SYTYCD eliminations as just one example of personal vs. objective description of events.

I welcome MJ’s opinion, and of course she has a right to post it here or anywhere else. But when that happens, any claims of “objectivity” are suspect.

The only thing that interests me about his rant is the suggestion that TPTB might have deliberately not shown Kris’ audition to give the appearance that he was this underdog, unpimped contestant to contrast with Adam and Danny with their blatent pimping and backstories. His “Man in The Mirror” was good but not earth shattering, but was Simon’s “the girls are going to love” comment the key to his avoiding the wild card round? I know the show is manipulative as hell and yet I really want to believe that Kris’ victory is proof that not everything goes according to script.

I could care less if these contestants like me or not. A new season starts, I move on to the new crop. Next. YAWN.

Haha. Love it. No one outside of the hardcore Ai fan base knows/remembers who this guy is anyways. He had his shot, he just didn’t sing well enough.

Maybe Rickey will suck up to him because he called Rickey ‘fair’ .

:devil_tb:

We already knew that Idol was fixed.

I guess I am not part of that we, I don’t know that.

I do not think the producers had confidence that Adam would click . Yes they allowed him free reign, they probably thought he would run smack right into a wall – crash and burn. But he did not.

You know, I never thought about it that way before. Even though I did wonder why he got the pimp spot when he did, as I thought the viewers would reject him because of that. Maybe they were hoping that too much would backfire on Adam? Hmmm.

I think they were kind of going all-or-nothing with Adam. The fact that Adam was allowed to do RoF the way he did it– that was their way of testing the waters to see if Adam’s style would fly with the viewers.

I laugh when he says Rickey is fair over mj. Rickey uses shock headlines that aren’t necessarily true to get readership. He also loves the sob stories and has his favorites. I don’t see that he’s any more fair than anyone else who writes about AI. He must have said something nice about Ju’not at some point.

As for them pushing Adam, is he saying Adam wasn’t good enough to be where he was? Sounds like a lot of irrational sour grapes to me.

There’s still a difference between blogging and reporting, even though the lines are getting blurrier these days. Take a look at MJ’s remarks on last week’s SYTYCD eliminations as just one example of personal vs. objective description of events.

When have I ever claimed to be a reporter?

It’s called criticism. Brian Mansfield, Richard Rushfield, Ann Powers, Michael Slezak, Jim Cantiello–all the mainstream journalists who cover Idol inject their opinion into their recaps.

I suppose to some fans an “objective” opinion is one they agree with, all others are “biased” or “personal.” LOL.

Isnt this the guy who sang Hey There Delilah twice! on the show?

No further comment!

I think some people are reading too much into what JuNot is saying about the contracts. I am sure there is a lot of gobble-gook in the contracts but AI isn’t interested in acquiring rights to contestants pre-idol music…geesh. The initial contracts (audition) are that a contestant and their families can’t publicly announce results, that any film of a contestant is the property of AI and can be used however they damn well please…and you get the gist.

Hollywood contracts basically state that if you make it to Hollywood you cannot sign with a record company until 3 months after the final and that you cannot release an album until the winner’s album (unless you are signed by 19) is released.

The Top 36 contract basically includes all of the above and stipulates (to some degree) your performances and personal appearances during the no sign limits. It also states compensation depending on your length of stay with idol, idol endorced advertising, the tour etc.

Now I am not sure if you can release a self-financed album during this time frame, or what the actual gigs are that you are entitled to do. Someone else would have to embellish further. So I really think that JuNot wanted the AI exposure but wasn’t real thrilled about having to put his career on hold for 6 months if he didn’t make it…..that is just me reading between the lines.

Honestly, MJ is more fair (and open with her bias) than any mainstream Idol reporting I’ve ever seen!

I for one trust MJ’s objectivity over mainstream journalists. I never think that any of her criticisms come from anywhere other than from being a lover of music. I may not always agree, but I know that her objectivity is evident to me. Won’t go blog on blog……so I will just roll my eyes at Ju’Not (hey dude, you are spoiling it for those who thought your hey delilah was cool)….also wish he had come here, at least he would have been given great questions and given a bit more respect, as some of those comments were just plain silly, imho!

yeah, thats the way reality tv shows work, but it doesn’t mean it is right and he shouldn’t express his frustration. if we give the TPTB a pass on their manipulations (its a show, nobody said life was fair etc) then we also must allow jilted contestants to give their feedback.

That’s how I feel as well. Should he have known better than to think the process would be fair? Yeah, maybe, but that doesn’t make it suck less for him….I would probably complain too, just maybe not so publicly…

I’m agreeing with the manipulated but not rigged group as well.

At what point, though, does “manipulated” cross over into being actually “rigged”? If “rigged” is strictly defined as “rigging the votes” themselves, then it’s impossible to know if this ever takes place. But, if “rigged” is expanded to mean “orchestrating (in other words, rigging) circumstances and events in order to bring about a desired outcome”, then yes, that type of manipulation does make the competition effectually “rigged”.

WNTS published an article detailing how the format change this year made it possible for the producers to control the outcome more tightly than ever before. They just prominently featured the backstory of anyone who they wanted to advance and, voila, viewers got to know them and voted for them– but this year they only had one night to vote for each group of contestants because of the season format.

I’m glad he’s speaking out because it takes black-and-white headlines– or something extreme like what happened to Jason Castro for most people to wake up and realize that the whole contest is controlled by unseen puppet masters. But, at least those who don’t “get it” easily have an excuse. What’s the excuse for the rest of us who tacitly condone the manipulation/ rigging by watching every year even though we know the competition is a farce? Because by continuing to offer our patronage in the form of sheep-like viewership, we are implicitly accepting the competition’s legitimacy at face-value.

Until 2008, I considered Idol to be a blight upon television and popular culture. Then, I was forced to watch it and somehow ended up getting into into it. But, that only lasted for one season. I have now returned to my former view that it is a blight upon television and popular culture (notwithstanding the fact that it has produced a few talented, deserving people).

So, anything that causes the franchise to come crashing down in flames is good in my book. And, yes, I’m a realize a hypocrite because I still follow it (and express opinions about it online). I just continue to maintain a twisted sociological fascination with the show and its fandoms. But, nevertheless, I still want to see this shipwrecked behemoth sink to the depths of the ocean floor.

When have I ever claimed to be a reporter?

And when did you promise to be objective? LOL. Isn’t the whole point of having a blog being able to share your own point of view?

Who the heck wants to read reviews that lack snark? Aren’t we supposed to point out when people suck? Are bloggers or reporters supposed to be all sunshine and rainbows even when someone has clearly stunk up the room?

Isn’t that the site linked on Adam’s hacked twitter? What is it?

Anyway, um, who? I only remember Nate and Kristen from that night (excluding those who advanced). I have a very short attention span with this show and don’t really pay attention to the contestants (it’s odd doing a post-show follow this year).

But American Idol manipulative and TV foremost? Really? Nah.

What would potentially be more profitable for 19′ ¦

- Adam wins and Kris comes in second

or

- Kris wins and Adam comes in second

In my opinion, Adam has more potential for a successful career as the runner up, than Kris would as the runner up! Where Kris is much more marketable as the winner, and Adam still is going to have a huge following as the runner up.

Putting aside the fact that we don’t know how successful either of these people will be, or even if either will have a legitimate fanbase, contact the claymates and soulpatrol about this one, tptb would not rig it so that Kris won and Adam came in second, that is not only illegal, but would ruin the show if the truth came out. Besides that, tptb never made it a secret that Kris was not in their plans to not make the finale. Adam’s treatment, on the other hand, would be an example of the manipulation that already had many upset, nobody needed JuNot to point it out.

Unfortunately, the cold hard facts is this: 1) You don’t mess than management. 2) You keep your mouth shut. Junot may have ruined his chances of any kind of a singing career.

Well, what I’m thinking is if it’s this hard for him to make it for idol, what makes him think that the actual music industry will be a walk in the park? Not everyone is suited for the harsh biz, so if I were him, I’d just let it go. Water under the bridge.

I think I’ll put my trust in other people right now. Everyone of the top 10 (if I recall correctly) felt that the producers were fair and honest with them during the show. Anoop, especially on his Idolotry interview had very good things to say about them. And Adam said they supported him wholeheartedly during the “picture” fiasco (I’ll go to my grave thinking that if Nigel had still been there Adam wouldn’t have made it past Hollywood…nor would have Von or Nathaniel). And to me the biggest thing is the dropping of “No Boundaries” from Kris’ set list. I am sure that wouldn’t have happened without all of the producers input.

And of course JuNot didn’t get into the wildcard round. The judges didn’t particularly like him the previous year and then he sings the same song twice on his 2009 journey…lots of apparent talent on disply during that one. And the judges made that perfectly clear when Tatiana was scolded for her use of the same song.

wand3rful Jul 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

one reason the votes aren’t fixed’ ¦.Taylor Hicks! LOL simon couldn’t stand him, it seemed 19 didn’t really jump for joy when he won. IF it was up to producers, Daughtry would have won or at least come in second. hmmm, which makes me wonder’ ¦.did the back stories, pimping increase after THAT season?? it was pretty strong seasons 7, 8′ ¦.i don’t recall before.

IMO, absolutely. Take the next season. Look at the singing order of the top 12 through the top 4. Jordin got the pimp spot like 3 times. 3 times, more than any other of the top 12 (only 6 of the top 12 even got a pimp spot that year). Manipulation, rigging, whatever, it’s so apparent. Coronation song? The one that was written for Jordin that Blake was not allowed to revise whatsoever, when on the show his talent had been revising to suit his style? And the judges’ comments…oh my, you know she’s only 17…. (and from Idol Juniors or whatever it was called.) When do the up and comers from the Idol camps start to show up on the show? That’s a pipeline they’ll likely mine.

There are many, many tricks in the producers’ arsenal of manipulation. I marvel how AI has created a show where the audience thinks they are picking the top performers when all the while their perceptions are being shaped by the production.

I have yet to read the JuNot interview, but from the summary and comments it sounds like the issue of how he went about telling the info and the way he delivered the message stank, but the message itself seems chock full of more insight to how things work “behind the curtain”.

lostinidol Jul 29th, 2009 at 4:55 pm

… being asked to sign a contract without being given a copy of the whole document first, being told not to ask questions, being unable to hire and consult your own attorney

How sad that AI has to conduct themselves like used car salesmen to achieve their goals.

What ever happened to Mario Vasquez? I remember loving him, and then hearing that he walked out due to a refusal to sign the contract. He hasn’t done much has he?

I think I’ll put my trust in other people right now. Everyone of the top 10 (if I recall correctly) felt that the producers were fair and honest with them during the show.

You have no idea what they feel, just what they say.

Tess Jul 29th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

… The initial contracts (audition) are that a contestant and their families can’t publicly announce results, that any film of a contestant is the property of AI and can be used however they damn well please’ ¦and you get the gist.

Hollywood contracts basically state that if you make it to Hollywood you cannot sign with a record company until 3 months after the final and that you cannot release an album until the winner’s album (unless you are signed by 19) is released.

The Top 36 contract basically includes all of the above and stipulates (to some degree) your performances and personal appearances during the no sign limits. It also states compensation depending on your length of stay with idol, idol endorced advertising, the tour etc.

Have you read all of these contracts? JuNot said there were 6 or 7 that they had to review and sign. Or is this what you have picked up from interviews over the years? TIA.

If everyone wanted AI to be a fair competition all of the idols for every week would sing the same song …there would be no backstories…there would be no judges comments…and it would be one vote per viewer.

I’m sure I would be busting my gut to make it home in time to watch that one.

ETA: “but the message itself seems chock full of more insight to how things work ‘behind the curtain”

He didn’t say a damn thing that most of us didn’t already know. Not a single surprise…just sour grapes.

Concerning the contracts…early on some of these were available online and most of the information has been released piecemeal by other performers over the years…its amazing what you can find on the internet if you look hard enough. If anyone has differing info then I have, please let me know.

Putting aside the fact that we don’t know how successful either of these people will be, or even if either will have a legitimate fanbase, contact the claymates and soulpatrol about this one, tptb would not rig it so that Kris won and Adam came in second, that is not only illegal, but would ruin the show if the truth came out. Besides that, tptb never made it a secret that Kris was not in their plans to not make the finale. Adam’s treatment, on the other hand, would be an example of the manipulation that already had many upset, nobody needed JuNot to point it out.

I think by the finale they have a very good idea of what kind of fan base each of these preformers have or will have, and the potential for there success…especially Adam…as I would bet his Rolling Stone cover was already in the works by the time the finale came about! How many other Idols over the years have had Rolling Stone covers??? I would call that some REAL potential!

They wouldn’t sing the same songs, because most songs are suited much better for some singers rather than others. Also because song choice is an indication of a contestant’s taste in music. In a fair competition though, the producers would put equal effort into getting each song choice cleared.

I wouldn’t mind that.

You have no idea what they feel, just what they say.

Normally I would agree with you…however, I think it was obvious from the Idolatry interview that Anoop has no qualms with telling you when he’s pissed about something, haha.

The way I interpreted this was that they made it look as if they wanted Adam, but in actuality they were setting us up for the big ‘surprise’  ending. The ‘classic twist’  to cause controversy’ ¦.and I’ll have to admit, if that was what happened, They succeeded. I think when he says ‘smitches’  he is referring to us gullible viewers rather than TPTB.

I’m not giving TPTB any credit for a “shocker”. They wanted Adam to win and it backfired.

I think they were kind of going all-or-nothing with Adam. The fact that Adam was allowed to do RoF the way he did it’“ that was their way of testing the waters to see if Adam’s style would fly with the viewers.

I agree … Randy especially seemed to comment a lot about “I think America might be ready” for a contestant like Adam. Adam has said it was just week to week for him and he was trying to stay in for as long as he could while not overly compromising who he is (my words).

noctem seizure: I’ve noticed your name on the blog many times … what’s your story?

My discomfort with the show is the idea that being a contestant without merit can still propel you to a career … I mean, how many people can the music industry absorb? But then it does come down to money – so being successful means selling records. I guess it’s all not so different than anything else, bottom line. People have gotten fame – and notoriety – with a lot less talent.

They wanted Adam to win and it backfired.

Hmm… I disagree. I think they wanted Danny to be in the finale with Adam and have Danny win (which was what Simon predicted) and THAT backfired. But when it came to Kris or Adam… well, I don’t think they’d ever planned on either of them winning. Kris because he’s so understated, and Adam because so overstated and polarizing, not the typical “American Idol” titleholder.

I never heard of this guy before today, but frankly, from the snippets posted here, he doesn’t sound anymore bitter than a lot of the fans, with absolutely nothing at stake, complaining about performance order, on-air time, and tour details. Yes, it’s scripted and designed to make money for the producers, no surprise, but also no surprise that some would chafe at it, even as they hope to benefit from it.

And while manipulative, my read, which of course may be wrong, is not that there is so much a grand plan of who will win or be in the final, but that they want a good show – a balance of types, and, for the most part, people advancing that are entertaining. At first, that can be in the train-wreck way, in later rounds, they want good singers. Given that they can give a contract to whomever they want, I doubt they fine tune their hopes to exactly which people and which story, but run with a couple of scenarios, pitching it somewhat on the fly as they see the singers develop (or not) and see what stories catch on with the fans.

The only big problem for the show is if they get too many winners that bomb with the public – that diminishes their credibility and, potentially, ratings. If it happens once in awhile, it’s no big deal, and they can spin it as a reason the judges need to be there. If “America always gets it right” were true, they wouldn’t “need” the judges.

But I’m also intrigued by the comment that Taylor was gang banged by TPTB. Since there’s little hope of that being literally true (now that would make a story worth spilling), I’m wondering what’s meant by that. I was a Taylor fan in season 5, and I know his albums weren’t so hot, but I figured that was on him for making lame music. Or is it something sillier – like he didn’t get his rightfully alotted minutes of tour songs or similar.

But I’m also intrigued by the comment that Taylor was gang banged by TPTB. Since there’s little hope of that being literally true (now that would make a story worth spilling), I’m wondering what’s meant by that.

The “gang banged” wording came from an ONTD_AI fan. It’s a very *colorful* way of putting it.

I think what’s meant is that he didn’t get enough label support for the album, in terms of getting good collaborators/songs and promotion? I wasn’t watching AI back then, but that’s what I gather.

http://www.americanidol.com/auditions/season_9/docs/AI9_short_release_09-05-26.pdf

Don’t know if this is authentic but here is the audition release.

I have to say I’m a little surprised that so many are siding with the show and not the contestants. It may be “common knowledge” that the show is a manipulated quasi-scripted reality show around here, but to a lot of the general public it’s not common knowledge and IMO it’s a pretty big deal when someone from inside the machine actually speaks out to this level of detail and confirms what a lot of us just strongly suspected.

As for whether contestants should be “grateful” to the show…let’s just say that $600k earned per 30-second commercial vs. approx. $900 weekly stipend paid out per contestant…don’t cry for the show. This show has made many people rich off of the backs of these kids that basically work for free, of whom very few get any real shot of making it big in the business.

beesims: The only thing that interests me about his rant is the suggestion that TPTB might have deliberately not shown Kris’ audition to give the appearance that he was this underdog, unpimped contestant to contrast with Adam and Danny with their blatent pimping and backstories.

If that is what he is thinking, he’s been spending too much time on the Grassy Knowl over at TwoP. Seriously! I mean so now we’re saying that NOT pimping is the new pimping??

Tess: Everyone of the top 10 (if I recall correctly) felt that the producers were fair and honest with them during the show.

I don’t think we really know yet what the Top 10 feel. I am sure their contracts preclude them from criticizing the producers. And even if they don’t their livilhood now depends on them either working for them, or hoping to be signed by them. So, don’t bite the hand… (if you know what I mean).

Michelle

I have to say I’m a little surprised that so many are siding with the show and not the contestants. It may be ‘common knowledge’  that the show is a manipulated quasi-scripted reality show around here, but to a lot of the general public it’s not common knowledge and IMO it’s a pretty big deal when someone from inside the machine actually speaks out to this level of detail and confirms what a lot of us just strongly suspected.

As for whether contestants should be ‘grateful’  to the show’ ¦let’s just say that $600k earned per 30-second commercial vs. approx. $900 weekly stipend paid out per contestant’ ¦don’t cry for the show. This show has made many people rich off of the backs of these kids that basically work for free, of whom very few get any real shot of making it big in the business.

Thank you.

Tess Jul 29th, 2009 at 6:50 pm

http://www.americanidol.com/auditions/season_9/docs/AI9_short_release_09-05-26.pdf

Don’t know if this is authentic but here is the audition release.

I am getting the server message “unexpected error” (Never seen that one before). Did the link work for you? TIA.

Reminder:

I don’t want this thread to turn into a rehash of the show. Stick to the subject please.

I’ll be deleting all off topic posts.

He didn’t say a damn thing that most of us didn’t already know. Not a single surprise’ ¦just sour grapes.

I, for one, didn’t know about the scant time they allowed to review the contracts, the number of contracts, or the inability to properly review them with an attorney.

But I’m also intrigued by the comment that Taylor was gang banged by TPTB. Since there’s little hope of that being literally true (now that would make a story worth spilling), I’m wondering what’s meant by that. I was a Taylor fan in season 5, and I know his albums weren’t so hot, but I figured that was on him for making lame music. Or is it something sillier – like he didn’t get his rightfully alotted minutes of tour songs or similar.

Basically, he got zero promotion. No push for his singles on the radio, not even one video, nada. It was like they didn’t know how to market him, so they just didn’t. They spent all their money on DAUGHTRY instead, heh.

What ever happened to Mario Vasquez? I remember loving him, and then hearing that he walked out due to a refusal to sign the contract. He hasn’t done much has he?

Actually the truth is closer that he was involved in some kind of scandal with an intern on the show. He was signed, released a single which did well on radio, then his cd dropped and died, the end.

I am getting the server message ‘unexpected error’  (Never seen that one before). Did the link work for you? TIA.

Do you have a pdf reader installed on your computer?

I have to say I’m a little surprised that so many are siding with the show and not the contestants.

Economics 101…Those that invest will reap the rewards. Yup the show wouldn’t be on the air without contestants and a manufacturer wouldn’t have a product without the worker bees. And yup the show is making lots of money but how much gets put back into the show…I think people would be surprised at how much it costs to put on a TV show and how many people are involved in the process. (the exorbitant salaries for the judges and Ryan aside) it isn’t like there is a tremendous amount of “profit” floating out there when all is said and done.

And as someone said earlier the contestants don’t bring anything substantial to the table…It’s a crap shoot everytime a new season starts. And you could always end up with a season 6 where everything was pretty damn bland and unappealing and only Jordin has made any “real” post Idol monies for 19. I would imagine that every worker bee out there are really damn glad they have a job and are pretty damn excited that their manufacturing plant is still making money so they can keep their job. And I am sure that the majority of AI contestants are thrilled that they get the opportunity of a lifetime on the show. For many the $900 a week is more than they have ever made off of their talent..and they are glad to have it. Is it slave labor? Don’t know….but there don’t seem to be a lot of past idols that regret their decision to give American Idol a try.

Tess Jul 29th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

Do you have a pdf reader installed on your computer?

Yes, and I even tried to switch from Firefox to Windows. Thanks for providing it anyway!

People tend to change opinions every so often. I’ve always believed that the fact Kris won proves AI isn’t rigged. Others claimed otherwise. Manipulated? Yes. And quite obviously.

Just confirms my disgust for Ken Warwick. Nigel was a manipulator, but was never as blatant as Warwick.

So my favorite part about this is he’s now slamming MJ on Twitter like a 3rd grader, ahaha.

And, I repeat. Imagine TPTB thinking Ju’Not would be difficult to work with. :rolleyes_tb:

To quote Abe Lincoln: “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.”

For those who can’t remember Juno’t Joyner’s performance of HEY THERE DELILAH, you can watch it here :

http://www.rickey.org/?p=12307

Question : If you made the top 36 last season but not the top 12, are you still eligible to compete next season or any future season if you wish ?

I think Gina Glocksen was unsuccessful in Season 5 but made it to the top 10 on Season 6.

I would have never heard of Ju’not Joyner if it wasn’t for AI. How rigged is that? BTW, I bought Ju’not Joyner’s Hey There Delilah.

I thought Felicia and Ju’Not were robbed. Felicia and Ju’Not sang ten times better then Scott and Jorge that night. It was not only a shame they didn’t get through, but a bigger shame they weren’t considered for wildcard.

I liked Ju’not’s Hey There Delilah. What I didn’t like was hearing him sing it both in Hollywood and in the top 36. I think he screwed himself there.

I had to look at the Top 36 contestants link to see who he was, as I had no clue. My first reaction was: Ju’Not Joyner who?

Then I checked out his version of Hey There Delilah and thought…meh, it’s ok maybe even pretty good for what it was, but while looking at him, I did not see STAR in him. He looks like an older version of chekezie.

While I’ve always longed to hear some inside scoop from Idol, this just comes off as bitter.

If anyone thinks that they are going to tryout for AI, and think the contract is going to blatantly favor anyone by AI and 19, they are kidding themselves.

This is a TV program, and the singers are CAST to make for an entertaining show. I believe the producers put talented people on the show, maybe not always the MOST talented. It mirrors reality, look at the artists who are famous…many of us know people who are more talented vocally, or better at playing certain instruments, however, they lack the IT factor, the back story, or the personality that the masses will relate to. Is it necessarily fair? No, but neither is life.

It’s one thing to speak up for yourself, it’s another thing to just complain. Ju’Not Joyner may have put his name out there on some Idol fansites, but in the grander picture, he is one big “who cares”.

I remember Ju’Not because he was paired with Allison Iraheta for one of the first interviews… seemed to me at the time as somewhat pretentious, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt entitled. Is he the one that got shots of cortisone or something before singing?

I also thought Ju’Not and Felicia deserved a wildcard spot. I was really surprised they were passed over for the likes of Sarver, Jorge, even Megan. I guess we now know why he was passed over. Wonder what Felicia did (or didn’t do).

When have I ever claimed to be a reporter?

It’s called criticism. Brian Mansfield, Richard Rushfield, Ann Powers, Michael Slezak, Jim Cantiello’“all the mainstream journalists who cover Idol inject their opinion into their recaps.

I suppose to some fans an ‘objective’  opinion is one they agree with, all others are ‘biased’  or ‘personal.’  LOL.

My perspective is that only a bald reporting of the facts is actually objective. I was responding to the poster who described this site as objective, not directing a criticism at MJ. The entertainment journalists mentioned aren’t purely reporters either. Not even the ones I agree with. Or the ones attached to major publications which also cover objective news. Which illustrates my point: the lines are getting blurry.

But in the end, it’s so, so easy to manipulate the voting public that I think telling Ju’not ‘you should’ve just performed better’  isn’t fair. He performed really well, in an understated way. And he was thrown under the bus.

I also thought Ju’Not and Felicia deserved a wildcard spot. I was really surprised they were passed over for the likes of Sarver, Jorge, even Megan. I guess we now know why he was passed over. Wonder what Felicia did (or didn’t do).

Sarver and Jorge were voted in. If either needed the wild card, I doubt the judges would have picked them.

Personally, I was totally unimpressed with his “Delilah” performances. I didn’t think Megan or Jasmine deserved spots in the wild card show but I would have given their spots to several others before ever considering Ju’Not.

Ju’Not’s twitter slam at mjsbigblog seems not just a dig at MJ but possibly also at all of us here who aren’t particularly sympathetic to his gripes. It doesn’t mean we think well of the AI-powers-that-be but his supposedly insider “bombshell” tell-all comes across as whiny and sour grapes as others have already said.

As for whether contestants should be ‘grateful’  to the show’ ¦let’s just say that $600k earned per 30-second commercial vs. approx. $900 weekly stipend paid out per contestant’ ¦don’t cry for the show. This show has made many people rich off of the backs of these kids that basically work for free, of whom very few get any real shot of making it big in the business.

So the show makes a mint. I really don’t see what that has to do with whether the contestants should be grateful or not. The kids don’t work for free; they are paid the minimum required, I believe, while they are on the show, like all reality show participants, but that’s probably way more than they were making before the show. And if they get into the top 10, they’ll have the reward of the summer tour income.

I believe this. I have heard basically the same thing from others who were on Idol. Back in season one, they had Idol appointed lawyers, which were a joke. Season two fought for their own lawyer. Cory Clarke actuallly said the same thing – he was kicked off of Idol because he asked too many questions and was seen as a leader of sorts. (plus Paula was telling him how to advoid the traps).

Cory Clarke actuallly said the same thing – he was kicked off of Idol because he asked too many questions and was seen as a leader of sorts. (plus Paula was telling him how to advoid the traps).

Now that has to be a very reliable source…Cory Clarke, OMG. And no that isn’t why he was kicked off idol!

he was charged in Kansas District Court with resisting arrest, battery upon his sister, and criminal restraint. Clark ultimately pleaded “no contest”

This is now the TOP FEATURED STORY on the Yahoo homepage, via Lindsey Parker.

Ex-Idol Contestant Says Show Is Rigged

Regardless what I think of JuNot Joyner as a contestant, I do believe most of what he said is true. We have indeed heard some of this stuff in the past.

I am sure there were many black females who could sing much, much better than Lil, but how could you beat her backstory? They are casting the show, and Lil was exactly what they were looking for.

Nothing will change, but it is good that some of this is brought forth for future contestants.

Didn’t Paris Bennett (under 18) bring in her own lawyer? I know something different is done for the contestants under 18 years old.

This is from Lindsey Parker’s article (sorry, haven’t had time to read the chat transcript):

Ju’Not also theorized that he was not selected for the top 13 because he refused to let the show’s producers exploit his sympathetic “back story” of being from “the hood.” Said Ju’Not: “They wanted me to put that out to the world and expose my personal business for ratings. I wouldn’t do it.”

So, in essence, as MJ said, he declined the opportunity to have his audition aired, complete with the much-coveted back-story airtime, because, what, that would have been “intrusive”? GIVE ME A BREAK!

I would be shocked if the contracts Ju’Not signed failed to include a non-disparagement clause — that is, prohibiting Ju’Not from talking shit about AI/19. Too bad he didn’t read them and AI/19 didn’t provide a copy to him, otherwise he’d know he’s in breach of the agreement right now. LOL

in my work, whenever we sign a new project, we have two original copies of the contracts, for both parties. mainly to ensure that both parties understand clearly what the work is and to especially understand the implications involved if either party violates one of the conditions. i know the AI business is show-business where integrity doesn’t have a role but there are such things as contractual obligations. my question is, how would the contestants know what exactly they should and should not do, if they are not given the time to read the contract properly. basically they are unable to make an informed decision and that to me is grossly unfair. and i dont see how legally binding it would be if there is only one copy of the contract and thats kept under lock and key.

having said all that, i have to agree with a lot of comments saying “thats the way it is” in this business and people who are willing to get into the entertainment world should be aware that their talent will be exploited and used by TPTB but in the end they will also get rewarded.

anyway, i do feel bad for Ju’not and i’m glad he did speak out. atleast his conscience is clear

p.s. MJ, this is the most “objective” blog i have come across and if peeps like Ju’not diss you, you always have us to lean on (haha)

So, in essence, as MJ said, he declined the opportunity to have his audition aired, complete with the much-coveted back-story airtime, because, what, that would have been ‘intrusive’ ? GIVE ME A BREAK!

Well, didn’t Danny get crucified for doing exactly the opposite, and taking that opportunity? Maybe Ju’Not didn’t want a pity party. Maybe he had some truly terrible stuff in his background.

Ju’not IS sour grapes, but he brings up points that a lot of fans have brought up too. I’m sick of sob stories and cannon fodder to fit certain “niches” as well. Everyone from 8-13 on the Top 13 could’ve been replaced with someone far better. AND the lawyer thing still disturbs me.

I see this as one of those interesting reads that in actuality everyone already knows. In my view the real surprise is that Ju’not doesn’t recognize that this isn’t a story about Idol, it’s a very well known and old story about the music business. Kids in that business have always gotten taken for a ride. The smart ones want to read a contract, the even smarter ones sign what they need to sign because they know that historically if they have some sucess they will re-negotiate their business deals. It stinks, and makes me glad that due to all of the music downloading more and more young artists are putting out their own music instead of relying on labels. That’s where the change in the music biz will come, not through deals and producer-favored contestants on AI.

I loved Ju’not’s voice, and Hey, there, Delilah is one of my favorites that I bought from itunes. (I also liked Jamal Roger’s version, but that, being a Hollywood performance, wasn’t available for purchase.) That said, only an idiot producer would spend time and money to promote a singer and then allow that person to ditch them later on for a better offer. So, a potential contestant had darned well sign that AI contract, which after all, may be skewed in favor of Idol, but does have the protections of California law and the applicable unions. And a contract is a two way street, anyway; if you don’t like the offer (it’s written in English and the big details can’t be that hard to understand), you don’t have to sign it. And it’s a market, supply and demand. There’s little supply (opportunity to be on Idol) and lots of demand (fine singers wanting to be on Idol). With Idol, lots and lots of madly talented singers want to be on that show. Idol holds all the cards. The producers would have to be totally CRAZY to highlight a difficult contestant. (What’s another name for a difficult performer? Unemployed.) And there may have been other reasons Ju’not wasn’t favored, such as blah personality, questionable background, whatever). Certainly Mishavana and Kristen, among others with great voices, weren’t in the wild card round either. Maybe he’s just not a nice person (difficult does not usually equal nice); maybe he was homophobic. But I know this: If I were offering someone a chance at the golden ring and he wanted to talk contract details, lawyers, and act like he’s Jamie Foxx, forget about it.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com

But so what? This is a TV show. It needs viewers and ratings.

At the end of the day, Allison Iraheta, Allen and Adam Lambert were the three best singers in the competition. Almost every season, there’s little to complain about at the end.

Until Joyner can provide some sort of proof that the show is truly rigged, we’re chalking his comments up to bitterness over his placement. What do you think?

^^^ I MOSTLY agree with that. Although I do think that being too ‘difficult’ can knock a really good singer out of the competition.

The successful contestants have to be able to get along with the people they will depend on in the show biz world. Constant head butting is no fun for anyone. And….Kris, Adam, and Allison all have the reputation of being easy to work with.

Making people sign 6 or 7 contracts without getting a chance to read them and with no real legal representation is wrong, no matter how you slice it. Especially when they are basically signing their lives away. Then punishing someone who actually asked questions on top of it? This kind of thing is why the music business has the rep that it has.

I don’t blame him for being mad. I’d be mad too.

As for manipulation… duh. It is a TV show and they always look to showcase the best story. And they always try to push the winner they want. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. Still, you should have the right NOT to put your personal business out there if you don’t want too. I don’t get why he should be raked over the coals for that.

I don’t think J’Not realized this is already well known. Poor kid really thought he was dropping some kind of bombshell.

But man, getting mad at bloggers for “hating” sounds stupid and childish. He needs to get a thicker skin. If he had gotten farther, he would have blown a gasket. Clearly, he could never be Danny Gokey. LOL. And what kind of criticism does he think he’ll face if he ever got a record deal and became famous?

Still, I thought he was talented. He deserved to last longer, IMO.

Junot, junot…this is all old news. The only true variable this show has are the performances of the contestants and even those can be somewhat doctored with judges comments.

AI is all about ratings. They want people to tune in and what better way to do that than to up the drama.

Vada — I’m just providing the correct link to the Hollywood Gossip story (yours goes to the homepage):

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/07/junot-joyner-former-american-idol-contestant-says-show-is-rigged/

“JuNot had no screen time during the audition phase…”

I am pretty sure MJ is mistaken about this. I remember Ju’Not from auditions. I remember thinking he seemed like a cool, mellow family guy and a good singer. I really liked his vibe and was sorry to see him more or less disappear during the Hollywood rounds. I am pretty certain Ju’Not got more screen time than Kris Allen by the time we hit Top 36. I certainly remembered him, while with Kris I was like “who’s this guy?”

What’s wrong with Ju’Not simply being honest about his experience? It doesn’t invalidate the good experiences of other Idols, or your enjoyment of the show, or his talent. It is important that contestants feel free to speak freely about their involvement with the show so others who are considering auditioning go in with open eyes and a realistic understanding that Idol (as well as any other reality show) is first and foremost a business, and they are the underpaid, overworked employees who bust their asses in the hope of landing a big promotion each Wednesday night.

While this model obviously works for the show, and works for many of the contestants – especially those who have more to gain than they stand to lose – it’s basically a job interview. People who aren’t a good match with the company’s goals won’t make it very far.

Wow, this is my first time leaving a comment here and I’ve noticed that people fight sooooo much in the comments. I guess no one has anything better to do? Anyways, I agree with Junot although I think it’s pretty obvious that the show is highly faked and manipulated. I do think that they count the votes and take them into consideration, but I think in the end the producers have the final decision.

Felicia and Ju’Not sang ten times better then Scott and Jorge that night.

Really true. I was very disappointed that week. The people who got the most votes were sentimental favorites; neither sang best or close to best the previous night. So weird.

“Making people sign 6 or 7 contracts without getting a chance to read them and with no real legal representation is wrong, no matter how you slice it. Especially when they are basically signing their lives away. Then punishing someone who actually asked questions on top of it?”

If we’re only basing this on his statement, I’m not sure that I would take that at face value, though I do suspect that there is at least a grain of truth in that. But, if I’m offered a job somewhere, and am too difficult when it comes to coming to an agreement with the company, the job goes to someone else, so why wouldn’t that be the case here?

I’m assuming that the production schedule of the show, (this is a TV show, after all), requires that things move along quickly. The producers don’t have time for someone to contact an outside lawyer, who might take a few days or weeks to review the contracts, suggest changes, etc. The producers need to know who is going on to the next round *now*, so they can move forward with the TV show.

Don’t all the contestants sign the same contract? If so, you’re either going to sign, or you’re out. This isn’t a negotiation.

I would assume that prior to going on to the show, people would do some research, and find out what they can about the obligations required if they go on the show. (If not, don’t whine about it later.) People on this blog seem to have been able to find out some details about the contract situation, so I would expect a contestant to do at least that much, as well as talk to a lawyer ahead of time, if they have the financial resources to pay a lawyer.

I don’t seem to be able to edit my comments, but wanted to add:

This confirms for me that it wasn’t necessarily Danny’s idea to “pimp” the tragic death of his wife. He probably had to agree to do that to move forward on the show, and if he wanted to pull back from that at any point in the show, he probably had no choice, and had to continue on with that. Danny got all of the blame, but clearly, Idol should get their fair share of the blame, too.

Tess -

I bought a DVD about AI thinking it was just a show about the contestants – but it ended up being an expose on Idol. Listening to Cory’s whole story, I am inclined to believe him. My point is that more than one person has said this about Idol, so in my mind makes it more believable. They also had other contestants on who said other unscrupulous things. To me, it’s interesting that multiple contestants would say the same thing.

Do you actually believe that Idol would come out and say “Corey was questioning our methods too much and wouldn’t go along with them, so we are disqualifing him.” or “we found something in his past that would dq him”?

ying yang – I have heard others (in season two through season 4) verify what they are saying. Season One and Two people had Idol appointed lawyers who they had no say in who they were, and were told there were plenty of people who could take there place if they were to slow to sign the contract.

When someone is angry with the perceived outcome of a situation, like Cory and JuNot, they will focus on whatever information they can to reshift the focus of bad attention from themselves onto others.

One thing that I find curious is how are the idol finalists going to pay for an outside lawyer to contest the contract and draw up a new one that is more to the contestants liking. And AI would then just say “no thanks” and send the contestant on their way.

As “bad” as the contract may seem to someone like JuNot he really had/has only 2 choices: sign or walk. Well, obviously he signed and now he “regrets”.

I remember David Cook mentioning in several interviews that he took AI for what it was – a platform launch a career on a grander scale. He said it was up to him to make it or not. He knew what he was signing (regarding the contracts) and accepted it. It seems Ju’not knew what he was getting into based on the fact that he tried twice to get on the show and since there was so much manipulations this year he felt slighted. He should be able to express his thoughts without having to take as much criticism that’s being hurled his way.

People have been asking for backstories and behind-the-scenes info for years. I think TPTB took it to the extreme and ruined the joy for a lot of viewers thereby resulting in the consistent drop in ratings. The whole set-up for S8 was bad from the start until the end.

I’m assuming that the production schedule of the show, (this is a TV show, after all), requires that things move along quickly. The producers don’t have time for someone to contact an outside lawyer, who might take a few days or weeks to review the contracts, suggest changes, etc. The producers need to know who is going on to the next round *now*, so they can move forward with the TV show.

Sure, they have to do it fast. But they should be able to at least READ them, and they should have the opportunity to know what the hell they are being given an ultimatum over. Its not like they are signing benign releases. They are signing away their future rights, locked into a very tight bind that will keep them under control for the forseeable future. And they don’t even get to pick their representation! Just don’t shove them in a room and say “sign or die”.

J’Not didn’t make top 24/36 last time, it was probably his first time dealing with that contract.

“The whole set-up for S8 was bad from the start until the end.”

But, somehow, the outcome was pretty good, based on how much people are enjoying the top 10 on the tour. There certainly are a few of the top 10 whose careers I plan on following, and this is the first year that has been the case. Yeah, Adam hooked me on the show this year, but I look forward to following the careers of Kris and Allison, as well, and potentially a couple of the others.

Why should Idol need to get into negotiations with someone who is wanting/needing to use the show to get a career going? If Idol was doing something illegal, I think that would come to light after 8 seasons. I don’t doubt that not everyone is happy with the contracts, since we all our slice of the pie, and the bigger the slice, the better, but when you can be easily replaced, you don’t have much bargaining power. That’s true in many career fields, especially in this economy.

JuNot got exposure from the show that he couldn’t have obtained elsewhere. We wouldn’t even be talking about him if it wasn’t for the show. That seems like a pretty good deal for someone who didn’t want to play by their rules.

Sure, they have to do it fast. But they should be able to at least READ them, and they should have the opportunity to know what the hell they are being given an ultimatum over.

No one is going to take away a contestants right to read the contracts. And a “lawyer” is provided to them to answer any questions they may have concerning the legal language. It may not be their personal attorney but it is an attorney (that’s more than most of us get when we sign our lives away on a mortgage contract).

Also based on what we have read on this blog there are many Idols from this year that have had the opportunity to sing in Public and to be compensated for their endeavors. So to say “they can’t even sing in the church pews” has to be an out and out distortion of the truth.

What we know for certain is that an Idol participant cannot sign a recording contract outside of 19 until 3 months after the final when 19 releases them from their Idol contract. I also think (not positive here) that they cannot enter into a management contract except for 19 during that time.

Junot Joyner is barking up the wrong tree.
AI is rigged because you have to be from the Bible Belt (or work in it) to come in first. The only exception is Jordin Sparks, who is from Phoenix.
And it wouldn’t hurt to be a Christian missionary or have been in a choir, or give a shout out to the soul patrol either. If you’re a Mormon, you probably won’t come in first in those all-important Belt States (just ask David Archuleta, or Mitt Romney, for that matter.)
Let’s face it, AI is a “Red State” phenomenon. If you want to win, better move to Birmingham, Alabama as soon as possible.
And, just to expedite matters, auditions should be held in Biloxi, Lubbock, Tulsa, Shreveport and Longview…