Randy Jackson: The Girls Made Better Records Because They Know Who They Are

i soooo call bullshit on this!!!

back in october, he tweeted Adam saying something along the lines of “dude ur music is blazin!” or something to that effect and I remember that Adam tweeted him back!!

So why is Randy changing his tune when he told adam he liked his music? hes going to be the only original judge next year, maybe dissing Kris and Adam will get him attention?

btw, since when has Kris and Adam not known who they are? and how would Randy not know??? bottom line, with Adam, I believe that Randy wanted him to make a rock record, not a mix of things. And with Kris? How can he say that this isn’t what you thought a Kris Allen album would sound like? LMAO

ETA:

Found the tweet!!

From @YO_RANDYJACKSON:
@adamlambert yo the music is tight,,, YOU ARE BLAZIN!
11:14 AM Oct 29th, 2009 from web

and adams response:

From @adamlambert:
@YO_RANDYJACKSON thanks Randy!!! I’m glad you dig it.
1:40 PM Oct 29th, 2009 from Echofon in reply to YO_RANDYJACKSON

also i remember a slezak interview where randy mentioned something about no one ever listening to him or something like that…lol

SEEMS LIKE HE HAS AN AGENDA

Oh Randy stfu. You’re talking out of your ass.

Why? Carrie is in the easiest market there is which is country and she is country. Kelly did not become a household name in pop until a few years after she won because Pop is the hardest genre to make a name in.

Idg why people including Randy are confused by Adam’s album. He did rock pop electro and ballads on the show. What does his album have? exactly what he did on the show.

Randy Jackson is a huge bandwagon jumper, without question. But this just pissed me off even more than usual. I mean… ugh. I mean, it’s just disrespectful to these artists who have worked hard and put out good records that just otherwise haven’t sold well. I mean, come on. As a prime example, does he really want to tell me that Melinda Freakin’ Doolittle doesn’t know who she is?

It’s amazing that he’s going to be the only original judge on this panel. He’s definitely become the most useless member of the panel. Seriously, I wish there was some way for Idol fans to just kick the man off the show. It needs to happen.

Oh, and Randy? Have you been tuning in to your own show? If you had, you’d realize that contestants have been bombing on contemporary material in a way that’s only matched by bombing on 80′s material. Really, it’s not that the material is too easy; it seems like the opposite is quite true.

Further, can you *let us freakin’ vote*? Thanks, and STFU.

like mj said, trying to convince everyone that sees this interview that a GIRL will win this year………hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

seem to me that Kris made an album that I would have definately suspected that he would make, and Adam made an album that is eclectic just like his performances on Idol

Randy has always been the joke of the show. Two seasons ago almost half the contestants were told they could sing the phonebook. Me and my son used to call him an idiot. That is all he ever said to Archie. He doesn’t say anything original and I don’t even think the contestants take him seriously. Fans don’t either. Ihave always hoped he’d b replaced. I have far more respect for Paula. That is why I bet Simon takes her with him. If Randy is the future of ai I say it’s time to turn their lights out. And Randy stfu.

Useless as Paula was, I still think she was still 1000X better more useful, interesting and relevant than Randy. Oh that is not to say that Paula was any of those things, per se, just more so than Randy.

I won’t spam poor mj’s threads, but my thoughts on Randy’s oh so Deep Thoughts, is on record.

But it bears repeating, of all the original judges, Randy, I think I hate you most of all.

Randy is just a douche. I don’t think he knows good music since the 80′s.

The judges, all of them, have been so inconsistent over the years. Even Simon. MOST of my frustration over the show, when it has come up, has been certain weird shifts and contradictions in judges’ comments. They will say one thing during the season but then it’s like they just woke up from a 5 year coma once the season and subsequent tour ends.

The judges’ agenda is they want to be right. And they will shape their comments to make it look like they were right all along. That is why I am one of the few, I guess, who welcomes Simon’s departure and Ellen. Who knows what will happen? I’m not saying it will be better. But I’m ready for different judges. Hopefully, Randy will be gone next.

Carrie is in the easiest market there is which is country and she is country.

Country music is very hard to break into. To really become a country star you need the backing of the establishment in Nashville, and they ave always been weary of newcomers. Country music has very few breakout artists every year, and when you see the awards shows and notice who tops the charts it is the same names year after year, so no it was not easy for Carrie to break into Country music, it was quite the accomplishment.

Useless as Paula was, I still think she was still 1000X better more useful, interesting and relevant than Randy. Oh that is not to say that Paula was any of those things, per se, just more so than Randy.

I won’t spam poor mj’s threads, but my thoughts on Randy’s oh so Deep Thoughts, is on record.

But it bears repeating, of all the original judges, Randy, I think I hate you most of all.

Oh ^THIS to the Nth degree. So much word, Truthiness. I would love to have Paula back at this point and kick Randy to the curb. He is beyond useless.

I’m annoyed with Randy and I was pissed when I first watched the interview…but after thinking about it a bit, I realized I don’t give a flying fig in space what Randy Jackson thinks. Say what you want about Paula Abdul, but she is very knowledgeable about the music business. Sure some of her critiques come off as loopy, but I have been rewatching past seasons of idol (I’m fortunate enough to have the entire series on DVD, I’m actually watching Hollywood week S7 as I type) and what she knows about song backgrounds and everything else is really quite impressive. Her critiques are out there at times, but that’s why I love her. Anywhoo back to my point about Randy, he is by far the most useless judge on idol and he always has been, since Season 1. I’d say that as far as any useful criticism he gives, it’s about a 1 out 50, and usually it’s him piggy backing off of a point that another judge made. This interview just proved all the digs that paula and simon have had at him when he starts talking about his big career and name drops people. He’s proven that all he is is a pompous ass.

ETA: I believe I got the pompous term from reading Truthiness post, just wanna give credit to an accurate observation!

I kinda agree that Kris and Adam’s albums are quite different from what they did on the show, but not in too many unexpected ways. Adam’s more electro and less rock than I thought, but he was planning on going that route. Kris has less acoustic and more edge, but his songs on BNS generally have a very similar feeling to his album songs. It’s certainly not a bad thing for either artist.

That’s a really weird reason to say girls are better. Also, it leaves me wondering what he thinks of the Davids, Daughtry, Fantasia and Jordin. I have a feeling that by girls he means Kelly and Carrie.

I think singing a contemporary song can be just as challenging as singing a classic. Either way, you still have to differentiate yourself from the original artist and make the song your own and you still take the risk of being compared to the original artist. I have a strange feeling “copycat contemporary” can be more painful than “copycat classic”. It can be worse that the original artist is still there making music.

I think the problem with some of the guys’ albums is that they did know who they are but the suits didn’t want any of it.

p.s. Randy is a douche. Just because.

p.s. Randy is a douche. Just because.

HaHa! Love it!

Randy Jackson is a huge bandwagon jumper, without question. But this just pissed me off even more than usual. I mean… ugh. I mean, it’s just disrespectful to these artists who have worked hard and put out good records that just otherwise haven’t sold well. I mean, come on. As a prime example, does he really want to tell me that Melinda Freakin’ Doolittle doesn’t know who she is?

Agreed. And I take issue with him, too, when he said the guys did not do as well. I can’t speak for Chris Sligh, but he did write a song that had success because it was picked up by Rascal Flatts. Randy was the one that encouraged Phil Stacey to go country, but unfortunately Phil did not sell as many albums. Will Randy say that he did not know who he is, when he was born and grew up in Kentucky, a country state, and grew up listening to country, gospel, and bluegrass? I believe his label did not promote him as well, because his first cd has great songs on it. I have read quite a few positive remarks about the first single of his second cd, as it is so pertinent to what people are dealing with nowadays. And the Navy will record his “Old Glory,” which he penned before Idol. Phil has had work continually since leaving the show. He is now booked till June. I think he must somehow know who he is, otherwise he wouldn’t be so busy, IMO.

*laughs at self*

I so need an editor, now that I don’t have time to go back and edit comments fast enough.

Agreed. And I take issue with him, too, when he said the guys did not do as well. I can’t speak for Chris Sligh, but he did write a song that had success because it was picked up by Rascal Flatts. Randy was the one that encouraged Phil Stacey to go country, but unfortunately Phil did not sell as many albums. Will Randy say that he did not know who he is, when he was born and grew up in Kentucky, a country state, and grew up listening to country, gospel, and bluegrass? I believe his label did not promote him as well, because his first cd has great songs on it. I have read quite a few positive remarks about the first single of his second cd, as it is so pertinent to what people are dealing with nowadays. And the Navy will record his “Old Glory,” which he penned before Idol. Phil has had work continually since leaving the show. He is now booked till June. I think he must somehow know who he is, otherwise he wouldn’t be so busy, IMO.

Right. I just find the narrative here so twisted. Yeah, the artists have to put out good records. But it’s not as if that’s enough to guarantee huge success; it takes any number of things that need to happen in the universe. It’s just not fair to uncritically blame an artist’s own identity construction for lack of success.

Why? Carrie is in the easiest market there is which is country and she is country. Kelly did not become a household name in pop until a few years after she won because Pop is the hardest genre to make a name in.

Idg why people including Randy are confused by Adam’s album. He did rock pop electro and ballads on the show. What does his album have? exactly what he did on the show.

Country might be easier to get in, but it’s not easy to become huge and have non-stop No.1 hits. Even the blazin’ hot Taylor Swift failed to hit Top 5 with her recent single. And other than Carrie, every other “country” idol never made it big on that format.

For me, Adam’s album is pretty good for a debut. But between songs like Music Again, Fever, Soaked, WWFM etc. there’s plenty of different styles and musical identities there.

On the show, he did nothing electro-pop like his songs now.

David Cook definately knew who he was when he was on Idol. Really, just about all of Season 7 had definate musical identities. And Daughtry definately knew who he was when he was on Idol also.

Maybe it’s the other way around, that some of the men, and women, also, know who they are musically and stick to it even if it isn’t as big a pop hit. Really, selling more songs doesn’t always mean better.

How is he judging sucess, anyway, I think a platinum cd,2 platinum cds and having one of the top albums of the year, and a sold out tour like David Cook did last year is sucessful.

Country music is very hard to break into. To really become a country star you need the backing of the establishment in Nashville, and they ave always been weary of newcomers. Country music has very few breakout artists every year, and when you see the awards shows and notice who tops the charts it is the same names year after year, so no it was not easy for Carrie to break into Country music, it was quite the accomplishment.

Not… really. I don’t think you have proportionally fewer artists breaking into the country scene than the pop scene. There are plenty of new names all over country music radio. They don’t happen to sound an inch apart, but they’re there.

And, yeah, you have to break into the Nashville establishment. But it’s also an issue of the Nashville establishment breaking you in. There isn’t a musical genre as heavily controlled and monitored as country music, so it’s so easy for an entity like AI to mold to that and submit, and it’s clearly worked; no other genre has quite the high batting average for AI alumni as country music.

IA with the feeling that Randy comes off full of himself in this interview and almost arrogant.
His vocabulary has always been limited but he’s also mailing it in.

He wanted Adam to do a rock album so he is attacking him on that, not a big mistery. In the end he just wants to be right, so if either Adam or Kris were uber successfull, he would change his tune.

Randy Jackson has his assistant twitter for him. What an asshole. Who has their assistant twitter? It requires nothing more that typing 140 characters—tops. How lazy or illiterate must one be to not twitter for themselves. As far as his opinion; he has proven to be the most irrelevant judge on the show, certainly his opinion is just as irrelevant off the show.

i soooo call bullshit on this!!!

back in october, he tweeted Adam saying something along the lines of “dude ur music is blazin!” or something to that effect and I remember that Adam tweeted him back!!

So why is Randy changing his tune when he told adam he liked his music? hes going to be the only original judge next year, maybe dissing Kris and Adam will get him attention?

It’s more that he’s backtracking now that Adam hasn’t sold as well as expected.

Of course, that’s assuming he liked Adam’s music in the first place. As 8sourcandy said, his twitter may not reflect his actual opinions. But then, his interview doesn’t really reflect anything besides 19 Entertainment’s agenda on AI9 either, so who knows with Randy.

Every new season MUST be the best, most talented season evah. That’s the Idol Circle of Life, y’all. When you’re TPTB’s mouthpiece like Randy is, you’ve got to sell the (predetermined) result for the new season. And since a girl will win this season — you know, the one that is the best, most talented season evah — and you don’t want Mr. Cutie McDarkHorse to mess with the master plan, you start programming the audience early to be weary of the guys. Because boys LIE, y’all! Boys will show the audience one thing on TV but then be someone else on their album (allegedly). But if the audience chooses a girl, she’ll be exactly who she was on the show, dontcha know. Just like Carrie and, allegedly, Kelly. So vote for a girl, PLEASE.
.
[whispers]and please don’t mention often or too loudly names of any successful male idols b/c/ that doesn’t fit the agenda; let’s lump them all into one giant bowl of fail, regardless of their actual numbers [/whispers]

At least, that’s what Randy’s trying to sell. In the best, most talented season of AI evah.

Ah, TPTB sent Randy out to be Pointman for their agenda – I can’t believe it’s because they think he has any credibility with fans – but certainly with the sloppy journalists who will hop on this nonsense. Odds are good that even TPTB noticed that the viewers do. not. like. to be told how to vote – and this is before the competition even started! I also haven’t seen any signs of embarrassment in the past when they have been wrong – great press, however – out of spinning these “upset victories”. Months of chatter about Americal Idol.

So if everyone agrees that this is a heaping pile Randy is spouting, and can easily prove it, with chapter and verse, then what is the Real Agenda?

IMO, it’s not even reverse psychology…where they tell you vote for a girl so you’ll vote for a guy – they just want buzz, they want the audience to watch, and vote. Stirring up the fans of the guys ought to work well – look at the Idol demographic.

Do you think they really care if the winner or runner-up is male or female, as long as they are successful enough to engage the audience, to keep people watching, and voting? I don’t – they benefit, either way.

It’s a deliberately manufactured controversy – and it will probably work. Fans are hopping to defend their maligned Idol of choice. And they’ll pick a male contestant and vote to prove they won’t be told how to vote, ya know? And there’s another story for the press.

It’s possible they think this being Simon’s last season, and adding Ellen to the panel isn’t enough to keep the interest up to where they can have record breaking numbers…and it doesn’t occur to them to up the quality – just the controversy…maybe they should have saved the charade for next year. Oh, nevermind. What am I thinking? If another male contestant wins, they can just recycle it. Facts don’t have to get in the way.

What do they have to gain by sending Randy to say that mess? Follow the money, in my opinion.

I don’t understand him. Rihanna has sold about 550k and she’s Rihanna. I don’t know what Shakira has done but I don’t think it’s all that much. I really don’t think the boys are doing too bad relatively speaking in today’s market.

Last year was my first season and I could see why Simon would ask Paula on XFactor and not Randy. If he is disappointed then maybe he should offer advise other than “that’s dope” or “yo dawg”.

Every new season MUST be the best, most talented season evah. That’s the Idol Circle of Life, y’all. When you’re TPTB’s mouthpiece like Randy is, you’ve got to sell the (predetermined) result for the new season. And since a girl will win this season — you know, the one that is the best, most talented season evah — and you don’t want Mr. Cutie McDarkHorse to mess with the master plan, you start programming the audience early to be weary of the guys. Because boys LIE, y’all! Boys will show the audience one thing on TV but then be someone else on their album (allegedly). But if the audience chooses a girl, she’ll be exactly who she was on the show, dontcha know. Just like Carrie and, allegedly, Kelly. So vote for a girl, PLEASE.
.
[whispers]and please don’t mention often or too loudly names of any successful male idols b/c/ that doesn’t fit the agenda; let’s lump them all into one giant bowl of fail, regardless of their actual numbers [/whispers]

At least, that’s what Randy’s trying to sell. In the best, most talented season of AI evah.

That sounds exhausting and makes me glad I don’t actually watch this show, lol.

Every new season MUST be the best, most talented season evah. That’s the Idol Circle of Life, y’all. When you’re TPTB’s mouthpiece like Randy is, you’ve got to sell the (predetermined) result for the new season. And since a girl will win this season — you know, the one that is the best, most talented season evah — and you don’t want Mr. Cutie McDarkHorse to mess with the master plan, you start programming the audience early to be weary of the guys.

So true, and so disgusting to hear Randy spout this b.s. Do they really think people are that stupid? BTW, Daughtry and Cook “know who they are” and are doing very well, thank you.

Every season the producers trot Randy out to say this sh*t. It’s his assignment and he does it to the best of his ability. I wish some year he would get some backbone and say “no thanks” to them and not do it. It makes me lose all respect for him. Well, not all respect. I do respect him. But this is his least shining moment.

Did he forget that Kelly is where she is 8 / 9 years down the road – and that it took some hits and misses to get there??? Idol opens the door and is just the beginning. It’s been amazing following Kris and Adam as they go beyond the Idol bubble – I’m enjoying watching their progress into “mainstream” these past couple of months as much as I enjoyed following their run each week in Season 9!

These comments don’t help the “franchise,” and I’m sorry they were said –

wow..seems like he has a bone to pick with Adam! While I agree with Randy’s general premise, I disagree with his conclusion that the boys have not put out records that are consistent with who they were on the show….i think cook, archie, kris and adam’s records were all exactly what I expected them to put out. I think that there are a whole lot of reasons why the girls overall have done better than the boys, but its not because the boys don’t know who they are. I just think that the girls have an easier time overcoming the “uncool” factor of coming off of idol. Its ok for a girl to do it, but less cool for a guy. JMO. I also think that Daughtry (who I really like and have bought) benefited by being eliminated earlier than expected — that actually earned him a little more cred….if he had made it further he might have lost some “cool points” if you know what I mean. Adam’s album, for one, got pretty stellar reviews and was included on several best of year lists — is randy saying that the boys should make crappier albums to align more closely with what they did on the show? Who knows. Anyway, it is crystal clear that TPTB want a girl to win this year.

I had hoped that Randy would have had a make-over. You know, come back with major improvements. No, he’s still basically the same. I don’t hate the guy. But he certainly is the useless judge. Don’t TPTB realize his liability? He would be so much easier to replace than Simon.

Randy thinks the old songs are better. Contemporary material isn’t challenging enough for the contestants.

I may be in the minority, but most know this is exactly how I have felt from the beginning. There have been a few who could interpret current songs with their own style (Blake, Cook, Adam), but overall the contestants are more successful with older material. Just looking over the list of most memorable performances, this is usually true.

Agree here with most of the comments. I also semi-agree that “older” songs are a little tougher to sing, and those who have really stood out lately are the ones capable of being creative and completely twisting them a.k.a. Ring of Fire, She Works Hard For The Money, Billie Jean..BUT hasn’t it also been said that Kris wrapped up his win with his version of Heartless? He took a popular song, twisted it in a way that blew the viewing audience away.. It is possible. And for the sake of viewers everywhere PLEASE keep Barry Manilow and Kenny Rogers with their stretched botox faces off of our HD sets. It’s too painful to watch!!!

ITA agree with everyone who has said Randy is the most useless judge out of all of them. He rarely gives constructive criticism, “yo dawg and too pitchy” are his mantra.

Adam has said he won’t be boxed in, in any one genre. I think Randy is forgetting that Adam can sing ANYTHING and sound great. Adam has given us exactly what he said he would-something for everyone. IMO, so many albums start sounding the same half way down their track list. I love Lady Gaga, but even her music is all starting to sound the same to me.

Randy’s constant pushing for a girl to win is just annoying. We’re led to believe it’s up to the voters to decide. It would be kind of amusing if a boy won again this year. A boy with a guitar.

Many older songs may be more challenging, but are they representative of what the singers are likely to produce? Honestly, one of the hardest things they have to overcome with their albums is them not being like what they sang on the show, since that is obviously what people saw of them.

I appreciate everything that MJ brings to this amazing site, but I won’t be wasting my time listening to Randy’s interview.
I’ve hated Randy since Season 1. I find him useless, repetitive, and not very bright. And judging from the comments I read, it looks like he’s continuing to just make noise and hot air.

This is why Randy needs to go. Seriously. He is so not in the know anymore! I hate that Idol focuses on old stuff. They will continue to draw old people that way! Whatever. And as for Kris and Adam, Randy is entitled to an opionion but he needs to leave them alone.

I do like Randy. Just not at the beginning of each season when he makes these asinine statments, which I have no doubt the producers ask him to make. I do think he is knowledgable and is not full of hot air. He usually responds to the best singers, unlike Simon who is often wrong. But interviews like this can get me worked up. I should know better as it’s all part of the Idol game.

Randy-Dawg, your album sold 13,000 copies it’s first week and premieried at 50 on the Billboard 200. You goota keep it real Dawg, guess you weren’t being yourself dude.

It looked like Jim C. bit his tongue quite a bit in that interview. I have to say I have now given up on Randy Jackson completely. He comes across so full of himself, as my Mom would say a typical “blowhard”. Carrie and Kelly listened to them? Give me a break. Kelly has been fighting the yoke since day one. Carrie is a “country” girl, but a lot of her success stems from the fact that she has crossover/pop leaning songs. It was pretty obvious from the get-go that Carrie would sing country. David Cook, Adam Lambert, David Archuletta, and Kris Allen, I am sure, compromised more than once on their albums. Kelly did and I’m sure Carrie did “as she was told” in the beginning of her career. More success garners more creative freedom.

Randy, once again, is a puppet. The party line is “a girl to win”, and he spouts it over and over again. The problem is he is putting down all the male contestants to date, of course, forgetting about Daughtry’s success while doing so. (Clay Aiken’s CD numbers are still holding strong to this day. Unfortunately, that success hasn’t been sustained.) I’d think he could make his point without undermining brand new artists in the process of “Selling” their music. Randy Jackson thinks Adam (I especially think it was directed at Adam) and Kris and Cook didn’t stay true to themselves. I argue otherwise.

If that’s the case, I’m looking forward to David Cook being himself and coming out with a ROCKIN’ Allbum. Top 40 be damned!! Randy Jackosn says, “stay true to yourself.” Hell, that was Kris’s mantra. What a JACKASS!

If anything turns me away from this show, it will most definitely be the judges. Randy has been especially ridiculous on these audition shows. Kara is an idiot as well. When she sits back in her chair, slouches low, and emotes about the singer being “honest” and “authentic”, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and as far as Simon is concerned, it’s his biting sense of humor that I enjoy. The mean-spirited comments, not so much. If they could find a judge that knows music and can infuse critiques with humor, then I’d be happy. Maybe Ellen will surprise me and fill the bill.

I’m sure this is way too long. Randy just got to me. Sorry.

On the show, he did nothing electro-pop like his songs now.

Just a small comment on this… Born to be Wild is as electo pop as Adam could get on the show. Also in interviews throughout the tour, Adam did more than a few times describe what he wanted his album to sound like… he even mentioned that is would have a similar flavor to Born to be Wild.

and PS…..

Randy is a Douche.

wow! Randy really dissed Adam…. BIG time. Why is he going around bad mouthing past contestants? So uncool dawg.

I don’t know how to blockquote, but I agree with Hypertwink’s quote back on page 1 regarding “the suits”.
As for Randy’s comment about the older music staying on Idol, I remember back during S7 Randy criticizing Simon
after David Cook’s lovely performance of First Time Ever I Saw Your Face for picking something “so old” for him.

Ok, I had said I wouldn’t post on here again a couple of days ago but this just makes me have to post.

In terms of the girls knowing who they are and therefore producing better albums, Randy is completely full of it. Kris produced exactly what I expected. So did Cook to a large extent, with one or 2 songs that were off. I’m not much of an Adam or Archie fan, but the little bit of the stuff of theirs I’ve listened to was pretty much what I expected. And Daughtry is one of the most successful people to come off the show and everyone knew he was going to do what he did.

In terms of the old vs. new songs, should we all try and remind Randy that for last year’s Judge’s choice song, he and Kara gave Kris Apologize – a completely current/modern song. And on the same show that Kris sang Apologize he also did Heartless, which was an even more current song than the one the judges gave him. Oh, and he knocked that one out of the park. I also think Adam could have gone even more current then WLL on Rock week and he would have completely knocked it out of the park. The modern songs help the transition to the current music scene.

Randy is the mouthpiece of TPTB. And he just makes many fans hate all the manipulations even more. After 8 seasons they’ve had 4 girls win and 4 guys win. With that 50/50 gender distribution, the absolute need for a girl to win is ridiculous – except of course they are scared to have 3 guys win in a row.

Well…I guess Randy has a right to an opinion, however ridiculous it might be. LOL, IMO what he said makes about as much sense as saying that he thinks chocolate tastes too much like cabbage. How can Kris be accused of not “knowing who he is” when he wrote or co-wrote most of the songs on the album? As for Adam, how can anyone who watched the show or knows anything about Adam, not have known what his music would sound like? It was exactly what I thought it would be, and his fans are happy. Seriously Dawg, do you think before you speak?

Of course they aren’t as successful, yet…it hasn’t even been a year. (maybe they should’ve covered some “Journey” tunes)

Wow, Randy’s talking out of his ass again. Big shocker there.

David Cook definately knew who he was when he was on Idol. Really, just about all of Season 7 had definate musical identities. And Daughtry definately knew who he was when he was on Idol also.

Maybe it’s the other way around, that some of the men, and women, also, know who they are musically and stick to it even if it isn’t as big a pop hit. Really, selling more songs doesn’t always mean better.

THIS, exactly. Especially the bolded part. If anything, Randy angling for a return to big voiced divas + harping on the old songs working better than contemporary songs= trying to steer the show focus back to the moldable vocal talent who are free to build a musical identity post show with the Sony A&R peeps rather than singer/songwriters and singer/musicians who come to the show with a more defined musical identity and as such are expected to be more hands on in the creative process when they make their albums. I think his agenda is all about wanting a chick who wins really on vocal talent alone, which I suppose means they are done with the musician-y type boys. Wonder if this is a 19 edict, though, or a Sony one. Anyway, Randy always sucked at this kind of PR stuff, so he ends up making no sense as usual. The most successful male who came off this show, Daughtry, and the moderately successful like Cook, are the ones who seemed to push for more creative control right out of the gate. How does that translate to not knowing who they are? It doesn’t.

Randy, once again, is a puppet. The party line is “a girl to win”, and he spouts it over and over again. The problem is he is putting down all the male contestants to date…

This is why I don’t want Randy to shut up. He is our window into the soul of the producers. I want to know what those crafty bastards are up to behind the scenes; Randy just puts it all out there. Thanks for being our Celebrity Mole, Mr. Jackson!

As for the plot to put a girl in the confetti this year, I don’t doubt that’s what they are pushing for. But seriously, did the producers learn nothing from last season? America will decide who they want to back, and the judges and producers pushing less capable candidates only makes people vote harder to thwart the steamrolling.

I always thought that the reason Idol doesn’t have new music is because they can’t get clearance for it. Artists aren’t likely going to give up rights to new songs, especially if they’re a new artist.

I agree that the older stuff is better. :)

Remembering comments I’ve seen on various Idol blogs/boards about the post-Idol albums, many have noted that the singers are not exactly like they were on the show. Adam, Kris, Allison, and Cook, included. However, I don’t think that means that the artist doesn’t know “who they are”.

Personally, I’d say that the only Idol whose album is exactly as expected is Brooke White.

I think there will be a backlash here. A small one, but a backlash nevertheless. The true ground breakers musically did not stay in a box. The ones who do are pretty much a dime a dozen.

Randy obviously has an agenda…to whip up interest & to have a girl winner this year. It may not work because it’s not cool to diss prior winners/runners-up. It certainly hasn’t upped my interest in the show. In fact I may stop watching it entirely. I was getting kind of bored anyway.

I’m not really sure why Randy is still on the show, he no longer contributes anything useful to the show, and I’m sure AI can get better judges with better credentials than him. A few points -

1) No, the girls don’t make better records. Better selling perhaps, not better. Even “better selling” is arguable – once you have adjusted for the general fall in CD sales, David Cook is selling as much as Kelly Clarkson’s first album. We have yet to see whether David Cook second album can do as well as Kelly’s. That leaves only Carrie Underwood and Daughtry whose first album were huge sellers, but last I looked Daughtry wasn’t wearing a dress.

2) I agree with those who said that it is easier to succeed in country. I’m more familiar with the older country music (70s or earlier, and there were some great country music then), and haven’t listened to the newer singers like Tim McGraw, Toby Keith, Dierks Bentley or Keith Urban. I just listened to the country hits from recent years over the holiday and was gobsmacked at the utter shittiness of many of those songs (do they know how to write decent lyrics anymore?). Even tried listening to Taylor Swift and the only word I can think of is “insipid”. I’m therefore not surprise at Carrie Underwood’s success, she is a gem compared to a lot of country singers.

3) That leaves just Daughtry. I think he succeeded because he had a couple of good songs in his album, I also think that him not winning actually helped. The way the rock radio stations completely ignored David Cook’s Bar-Ba-Sol speaks volume about the prejudice rock stations have about AI winner (what’s the total number of spins for that song? Fewer than a hundred?). His songs also fit in with those rock songs that sell well currently.

This brings me to a point is not that relevant, but a bit of a gripe with me – American rock music on the chart is really a bit dire at the moment. I have a hard time thinking of great rock songs from the top 100 songs of last 5 years – Nickelback’s Saving Me is probably their only good song, Linkin Park’s Numb and Green Day’s Boulevard of Broken Dreams were from more than 5 years ago. Perhaps American chart needs an injection of good British rock music (not sure about Coldplay though), note for example the success of Finger Eleven’s Paralyzer which is almost a copy of Franz Ferdinand’s Take Me Out.

4) The idea that it’s the girls know who they are is just silly. David Cook certainly knows who he is, but his biggest selling song at the moment is that stupid Magic Rainbow, a song foisted on him, isn’t about him, not one he will sing if he wasn’t obliged to do it as the winner. It means that David Cook can probably be a great success if he choose to sing songs that isn’t about what he is.

5) It’s a bit early to talk about the success or failure of Adam or Kris, although I do think Adam will be successful, and Kris moderately so, and those were my predictions at the end of last season and I see no reason to change them. Adam however has made some mistakes. For example I do think the album cover is a big mistake and that is solely down to him. I for one haven’t bought the CD on account of the picture even if I think the album better produced than David Cook’s and there’s at least a tracks I like more than all of David Cook’s songs. That picture is just far too yucky and cheap. He probably lost a good percentage of sales on account of that.

FWIW, I like FYE more than WWFM, it’s a better song and would have sold better had the radio stations played it. Whether it’s because it doesn’t fit in with the current American music or not I can’t say, but perhaps it says something about the way radio stations are manipulating the music scene. The way the label dropped the song when the big stations won’t play it is very interesting to me.

Randy is the mouthpiece of TPTB. And he just makes many fans hate all the manipulations even more.

I have a feeling this season will be the most pimped and manipulated ever. They are going to get what they want one way or the other.

I just don’t know why Randy decided to publicly diss kris and adam a mere two months after their albums came out. Isn’t he an employee of 19 Ent. as well? I mean, he could have referenced the fact that both Adam and Kris have top 40 singles, that Adam has one of the best selling debuts of the year; he could have said to give them some time, they are on the right track, the industry is different, top established artists have similar album sales etc. etc. Not saying he had to say that, or that he isn’t entitled to his opinion, but I don’t get why he had to go there. It does nothing except undermine both Kris and Adam in the marketplace, at a time when they really need the support of the show and 19. Does anyone think this means that 19 is no longer behind them? Or is this just Randy being stupid and talking out of his a-s.

The sad thing is I’m a big, big Carrie fan and I really like Kelly but I’m SO sick of this ongoing notion and now this shit from dumbass Randy that pretty much makes it sound like everyone who isnt them is some sort of failure. I so, so want a guy to win again now just to see his head explode.

I dont think he has any right to be knocking any of these artists, especially those still under the 19 umbrella but I’d really be curious to hear what Simon thinks of Kris/Adams albums. The last few years right at the start of the new season he voiced his opinion on the winner/runner-up sales numbers. Hes been pretty quiet this year.

I wonder if Randy is somewhat annoyed that Adam didn’t make himself a rock album like Randy said he should. It doesn’t help the American Idol show to put down the current winner and runner up IMO.

I just saw this on a blog and thought it was interesting:

Since the show’s inception in 2002, 47 Idol contestants have released albums through various channels. Of those 47, only 15 have had at an album certified Gold and 9 have gone Platinum. (Adam Lambert, who released For Your Entertainment in November, will soon become the 16th artist with a Gold album).

There have been a few who could interpret current songs with their own style (Blake, Cook, Adam)

Kris did a very current song (Heartless) and a fairly current one (Falling Slowly). And these seemed to be considered “daring” choices. I don’t know about Blake and Cook, but I don’t recall Adam singing anything current on the show.

I’d really be curious to hear what Simon thinks of Kris/Adams albums. The last few years right at the start of the new season he voiced his opinion on the winner/runner-up sales numbers. Hes been pretty quiet this year.

Is there even a need to ask him? He obviously didn’t like Kris’ music since he ranked Kris so low on the list of Idol winners before even hearing a single song from him. I doubt he has any good words to say about Kris now.

Personally, I’d say that the only Idol whose album is exactly as expected is Brooke White.

Interesting comment, because Randy Jackson was an executive producer on her album, I believe.

Randy who? Oh…right…Randy the TPTB ‘pupppet’.

I agree with you, Koshka, “Randy is a Douche”. Because their ‘agenda’ is to have a girl win this season they feel the need to be ‘disrespectful’ to all the male contestants that been on the show?!

Now I know why I never watched AI. I happened to see some “guy” named Adam sing “Satisfaction” and I only watched because of him.

I thought the viewing audience was suppose to make up their own minds on who’s going to win?

Randy and AI….trying to manipulate this contest equals a big “FAIL” for your show. I wasn’t sure if I’d maybe watch AI this season…well Randy’s comments just sealed the deal for me. Ain’t gonna happen!!!!

Sorry! I didn’t mean for all that to be in bold print!

If anything, Randy angling for a return to big voiced divas + harping on the old songs working better than contemporary songs= trying to steer the show focus back to the moldable vocal talent who are free to build a musical identity post show with the Sony A&R peeps rather than singer/songwriters and singer/musicians who come to the show with a more defined musical identity and as such are expected to be more hands on in the creative process when they make their albums. I think his agenda is all about wanting a chick who wins really on vocal talent alone, which I suppose means they are done with the musician-y type boys. Wonder if this is a 19 edict, though, or a Sony one.

Yeah. Actually, I would love for the show to be more about vocal talent again. American Idol is a singing competition and a reality show, so it would be great if the judges stopped talking about “artistry” and similar terms. American Idol is a reality show that is looking for new popstars, it’s really not about artistry. They need to find great singers that look good and also have pleasant personality, so the watchers can “connect” with them. Really, new and original arrangements don’t really matter, it’s the singer’s ability to create a ‘moment’. So combination of the song, vocals, stage presence is the key. I agree that the first three seasons of AI were quite karaoke, but seasons 4, 5 and 6 were ideal.

And after the last two seasons it’s really not surprising that they don’t want more musician type boys. I can’t blame them. Enough is enough.

Hmm, interesting thoughts from Mr. Jackson. There is a great deal of truth, imo, to the idea that having a very clear vision of who you are as an artist and staying true to that vision is what will be one of the surest (though not guaranteed) paths to success. Kelly fit the pop girl mold, Carrie the country one, Daughtry the Nickelback rock one. But it’s definitely not as easy as that.

Music is just so finnicky – you have to be current, but to some extent you have to take a leap of faith and GUESS what will fit, based on what you do well. Daughtry is a good example – the timing was just perfect for him on radio to have a better chance of success with songs like It’s Not Over and Home – it just fit the mold.

While I think this model fits well to capture a larger, middle-of-the-road audience, I find it, personally, to be incredibly boring and predictable. Daughtry is a good example – he is in danger, imo, of not doing well in the future if he doesn’t mix it up, take some risks, try to expand a little – everything is just a little too safe and similar sounding, imo. And that formula that worked 3 years ago isn’t necessarily going to keep working next year, or the year after.

I think Adam’s main problem has always been that he KNOWS who he is, but he IS about 20,000 different things. That amazing voice of his is kind of a curse, in that he is so versatile, can handle the quiet ballad as easily as the rock wail or the funky pop sound – and he loves all of those influences, and so they all come together with the album. I personally LOVE it, but I know one of the big downsides for him to have more “mass appeal” is that it is a little too diverse, casting too wide a net, and as a result it’s not offering that clear path of “I’m a rocker”, “I’m a pop artist”, “I’m a country singer”, etc. Even on the show, his fanbase was very scattered in terms of WHAT they loved the most about him – be it the rocker side, the ballad side, or the electro-pop side.

I personally am very happy with his album – my thought is, he could have just gone down one path, say rock, and would have likely put out a relatively bland, everything sounds the same album (like most albums out there, imo, and certainly most AI albums) – but by being so diverse on the album, I am so much more happy with the final product, find it immensely memorable, each song unique, never boring, etc. I’m glad he chose that route.

In Kris’s case, I feel his album strays a bit from the more accoustic feel of his biggest AI hits (Heartless, SWHFTM, ANS). His album is less diverse than Adam’s imo (it offers more of a “similar” vibe throughout all of the songs), but it doesn’t offer as much of the AI-sound people knew from him. JMO, of course :-)

Regardless of what Randy thinks, I personally think this year offered some of the best AI debut albums EVER – which is why it’s that much more frustrating to see the sales not as high as previous years. Part of me is left to wonder if it’s an unfortunate truth that it’s hard to have both. After all, how many HUGE sales successes out there do I find to be incredibly boring, predictable, and safe? Including many AI alums.

Yeah. Actually, I would love for the show to be more about vocal talent again. American Idol is a singing competition and a reality show, so it would be great if the judges stopped talking about “artistry” and similar terms. American Idol is a reality show that is looking for new popstars, it’s really not about artistry. They need to find great singers that look good and also have pleasant personality, so the watchers can “connect” with them. Really, new and original arrangements don’t really matter, it’s the singer’s ability to create a ‘moment’. So combination of the song, vocals, stage presence is the key. I agree that the first three seasons of AI were quite karaoke, but seasons 4, 5 and 6 were ideal.

Ugh. Blerg. No thank you. I just got subjected to the X-Factor UK version, which only had singers like this. It never was as entertaining a show as the last few AI seasons were. Diversity was, at best, a cliched joke to a massive extent, and that’s never a good thing for a TV show. Maybe for some, but I’ll take my artists, for sure.

Even had to replace the picture on my iPod, just can’t bear to look at it.

Then you bought the music, just not the physical cd?

You are entitled to your opinion and it is your money. Personally, I would have missed out on a lot of AMAZING music over the years if I let a cover picture I didn’t care for stand in the way of purchasing the music.

The cover for Adams album can be flipped around to the one with his fingers covering his face. There is a win, win, you have a cool cover, and the awsome songs in the album. Hope it works, cause the songs are to good to miss

Randy should keep his glasses on, he looks like a pug with them off, and honestly, he cant think with them off.

Since the show’s inception in 2002, 47 Idol contestants have released albums through various channels. Of those 47, only 15 have had at an album certified Gold and 9 have gone Platinum. (Adam Lambert, who released For Your Entertainment in November, will soon become the 16th artist with a Gold album).

That only counts major released albums. If you count any album, the total is probably way more than that just among finalists, well over 100 including semi-finalists and 250 or more among all contestants.

Randy is totally making the push for a girl to win this year, that is clear to me. I just get tired of Randy. Does he ever have anything constructive to say? I tune him out most of the time. Besides, he is now talking out of both sides of his mouth. I distinctly remember Randy telling Kris that he was ready for the big time (dawg!) becuase you know who you are. And, of course, let’s not forget all the praise heaped on Adam 24/7. So, I have no clue what Randy is talking about that the girls make better albums….he’s just pontificating becuase they are setting the stage for a girl to win…or at least make the top two.

I still think Simon is a bit out of touch with what is going on on radio. The big huge voices ala Whitney, Mariah, etc. are not that heard on the radion. You have the quirky Katie Perry, Lady Gaga, etc. on the radion now. Even the male singers are not doing those big songs…..look at the success of Owl City with Fireflies…that song might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it is different and stands out on radio…also, the singers voice is not bombastic in any way, shape or form.

I get sick of hearing all these old songs on AI..then they criticize the contestants for not sounding current….it’s ridiculous. Sometimes it is hard to get a sense of the identity of these contestants becuase they are strapped with these archaic theme nights that pigeonhole them into a box. And I could do without another Micheal Jackson night…sorry.

Mark
01/21/2010 at 10:55 am
Yeah. Actually, I would love for the show to be more about vocal talent again. American Idol is a singing competition and a reality show, so it would be great if the judges stopped talking about “artistry” and similar terms. American Idol is a reality show that is looking for new popstars, it’s really not about artistry. They need to find great singers that look good and also have pleasant personality, so the watchers can “connect” with them. Really, new and original arrangements don’t really matter, it’s the singer’s ability to create a ‘moment’. So combination of the song, vocals, stage presence is the key. I agree that the first three seasons of AI were quite karaoke, but seasons 4, 5 and 6 were ideal.

Ugh. Blerg. No thank you. I just got subjected to the X-Factor UK version, which only had singers like this. It never was as entertaining a show as the last few AI seasons were. Diversity was, at best, a cliched joke to a massive extent, and that’s never a good thing for a TV show. Maybe for some, but I’ll take my artists, for sure.

See now this illustrates an interesting point. I think there’s a divergence in the AI watching audience now, those that prefer the old school “just pick the right song and sing it well” approach to AI, we’ll call them Fanbase A, and those who like the addition of the instruments and are apt to lose interest in the show unless there’s the artistic, pushing the envelope, musician-y arrangers in the mix who we’ll call Fanbase B. Personally, I’m a Fanbase B girl. I like the artists who manage to transcend the singing competition reality show format and bring that extra lil sumpin sumpin to the table. AI was always a pop culture curiosity and I watched it off and on, but I didn’t really truly GAS one way or the other until Season 7 which is far and away my favorite season. Anyway, Randy seems to be hinting that they will be catering to Fanbase A this seaso, which doesn’t necessarily mean the show won’t offer something for Fanbase B. They just want the other side to produce the winner this year. I think.

They need to find great singers that look good and also have pleasant personality, so the watchers can “connect” with them. Really, new and original arrangements don’t really matter, it’s the singer’s ability to create a ‘moment’. So combination of the song, vocals, stage presence is the key.

Jordin Sparks has good vocals, a bubbly personality (although she’s put her foot in it a few times), and is, IMO, gorgeous. And she doesn’t appear to have fought for creative control (she’s cowritten a whole four songs across two albums), relying on established hitmakers for her singles.

And it’s gotten her and her label two monster singles, two moderately successful ones, and yet a second album that has gone nowhere and many not even get a third single.

I don’t think people have connected with her, and so, no, song, vocals, and stage presence aren’t enough. I strongly suspect that the viewers that actually buy the albums are the viewers who respond to an artistic POV.

Randy totally has the right to his opinion…if….that is where it had began.

But I remember when Adam’s album was first released, Randy twitted and said in at least one interview, that he thought Adams album was the “bomb” or one of those “catchy” terms he uses.

Seems a little two faced with these current comments.

I can sort of see the argument that Adam wanted to make an eclectic album to appeal to all the different fans he had from the show, but I think a deeper problem on the album is that he doesn’t have a signature sound. Yes, Elvis, Prince, and Michael Jackson recorded songs in several different styles, but they all had the distinct sound of the artist. An Elvis song is indistinguishably Elvis whether he was singing country or rock. The same can be said of a Kelly or Carrie song. They have distinctive vocal qualities stamped all over their records that make them transcend from artist to star. Music Again, FYE, Soaked, and WWFM sound like they were performed by completely different artists. The hardcore fans can recognize the Adam in it, but will the casual fan who really liked WWFM also enjoy Sleepwalker and be convinced to buy the album? Will they even realize the two were sung by the same person?

See now this illustrates an interesting point. I think there’s a divergence in the AI watching audience now, those that prefer the old school “just pick the right song and sing it well” approach to AI, we’ll call them Fanbase A, and those who like the addition of the instruments and are apt to lose interest in the show unless there’s the artistic, pushing the envelope, musician-y arrangers in the mix who we’ll call Fanbase B. Personally, I’m a Fanbase B girl. I like the artists who manage to transcend the singing competition reality show format and bring that extra lil sumpin sumpin to the table. AI was always a pop culture curiosity and I watched it off and on, but I didn’t really truly GAS one way or the other until Season 7 which is far and away my favorite season. Anyway, Randy seems to be hinting that they will be catering to Fanbase A this seaso, which doesn’t necessarily mean the show won’t offer something for Fanbase B. They just want the other side to produce the winner this year. I think.

Possibly. But I also doubt they’ll be able to overcome Fanbase B folks at the voting at this point. It seems to be an increasing (rather than decreasing) majority, and it’s not like we’re going to forget the last two winners or anything.

Kanadie-Here is the hypocritical tweet from Randy to Adam and vice versa back in October!!

From @YO_RANDYJACKSON:
@adamlambert yo the music is tight,,, YOU ARE BLAZIN!
11:14 AM Oct 29th, 2009 from web

and adams response:

From @adamlambert:
@YO_RANDYJACKSON thanks Randy!!! I’m glad you dig it.
1:40 PM Oct 29th, 2009 from Echofon in reply to YO_RANDYJACKSON

BUT ILL TAKE THIS TWEET ANYDAY!! (from yesterday)

alright @adamlambert fans…his turn on @oprah (EST). he oozes stardom. how lucky are we that he’s on sony??
1:33 PM Jan 19th from TweetDeck

(from twitter.com/SONYMUSICGLOBAL)

sounds like they adore adam and thats all that matters!!

btw, hasnt RI-FREAKING-ANNA sold 550k? YEAH THATS WHAT I THOUGHT!

It doesn’t help the American Idol show to put down the current winner and runner up

this…. and why can’t those album be praised for what they are instead of being compared in terms of sales to others and therefore considered as lesser products. I can name some albums that sold much less than others but that i consider far more superior.

Kris and adam put out solid albums and they are representative of the artists they are.

So Randy… stfu… dawg!

It’s been like this forever, Randy Jackson talks and I hear wahh wahhhhh wahhhh (Charlie Brown style). I’ve never cared who he used to play for, I find him useless.

mtlfan exactly!! how much did shakira or leona lewis for that matter sell?? they are all on sony too

I’m not sure I agree, but maybe I’m too much of a fan. All I need is two bars to pick out Adam’s voice, it’s so distinctive. Now the songs themselves are different, some dance, some ballad, but the voice is all Adam to me. I will give you FYE though, because his voice is too hidden on that track.

But it’s the same reason I was disappointed with Cook’s album. I like it okay, listen to it occasionally and went to his concert recently. But the album on the whole sounds the same to me. I’m really looking forward to seeing what he does with #2 because I loved most of the album songs much better live. Same can be said for Adam’s, the live versions so far have been great.

What do Skakira and Rihanna have to do with this discussion? They’re not Idol contestants. Leona Lewis came off X Factor and had the #1 album of the year world wide. Just like many folks, she’s struggled with her second album.

And Randy said an assistant does his twitter stuff for him. :)
Some of what he says makes sense though. It’s very hard to have a huge hit with an eclectic album. That massive sellers find one popular genre and just dominate it.

Possibly. But I also doubt they’ll be able to overcome Fanbase B folks at the voting at this point. It seems to be an increasing (rather than decreasing) majority, and it’s not like we’re going to forget the last two winners or anything.

Exactly.

Personally, I got bored of AI by season 5 or so. The introduction of instruments in Season 7 revived my interest again. The whole artistry and arrangement by the contestants make them more interesting musically. At least I learn more of their musical capabilities (and what I’m actually voting for) unlike previous seasons where I only know they could do good karaoke.

Possibly. But I also doubt they’ll be able to overcome Fanbase B folks at the voting at this point. It seems to be an increasing (rather than decreasing) majority, and it’s not like we’re going to forget the last two winners or anything.

True. Lawd knows how hard they pushed for Gokey last season. This new line of B.S. makes me wonder how far they’ll go to pimp the anti-boys agenda. It could be subtle, like stacking the deck with boys that all kind of blend together so that the girls stand out more, but if that doesn’t work… Dum dum dum….

The interesting thing is that the musician/singers/arrangers are something that AI can offer that the X factor won’t also be serving up. You’d think they’d be celebrating it as a way to differentiate? Hmm.

I hated the diva type singers but they have been the Idol success stories so far with the exception of Daughtry. Even since Idol has included instruments they haven’t had a multiplatinum artist emerge from the show. And SuBo is really just another Idol type diva (of course older et al.) And she’s obviously a huge success.

I have a feeling the deck will be stacked with some very similar boys for vote splitting for a while, to keep the girls in longer. It’s really fun going in this year with eyes wide open.

Idol has 20 million viewers, and they are probably pretty much the same viewers who have watched most of the seasons. And over 8 seasons of Idol most “fans” have picked out their favorites who they continue to support and declare “the best ever” at every opportunity.

So even though viewership remains the same, fans looking for someone to really support becomes less and less as each season moves on because they are already supporting someone. Now if I was an invested fan of someone from an earlier season and really wanted them to shine and hold their place in line…would I be buying the new guys material…probably not. Invested fans are not altruistic. If they want their guy or gal to stay ahead of the game they aren’t going to be buying all the new stuff from someone else.

So Randy is kind of talking through his hat. You can’t explain receeding sales as easily as he thinks you can. And I’m pretty sure that Season 9′s winner and runner up will have a hard time in the real world. Ain’t that many “invested” AI fans to support the new guy.

Now if I was an invested fan of someone from an earlier season and really wanted them to shine and hold their place in line…would I be buying the new guys material…probably not.

People like this, so invested that they can’t see the forest through the trees, may be LOUD, but they are a minority. In the grand scheme of things, they don’t have much influence.

Randy doesn’t seem to have a clue about either Kris or Adam, because their albums are exactly what they talked about doing. Both Kris and Adam know who they are, thanks very much.

And the most successful Idol, Kelly Clarkson, changed quite a lot from what she did on Idol (which was a lot more R&B sounding)

Also, he seems to feel contemporary music is all shallow, given what he said about why Idol theme weeks pretty much are all about old songs…

So even though viewership remains the same, fans looking for someone to really support becomes less and less as each season moves on because they are already supporting someone. Now if I was an invested fan of someone from an earlier season and really wanted them to shine and hold their place in line…would I be buying the new guys material…probably not.

I am sorry but if someone found a singer they really liked on Idol, and then refused to buy music from other idols even if they liked it because they felt some kind of bond to the first idol, I would consider that fucking nuts. That kind of obsession where one figure who you don’t even know has such sway over your life is a bit insane, and I think it would apply to less than 1% of the viewing audience. Although probably 40% of those who mass tweet lol.

mmb
01/21/2010 at 10:24 am
I just saw this on a blog and thought it was interesting:

Since the show’s inception in 2002, 47 Idol contestants have released albums through various channels. Of those 47, only 15 have had at an album certified Gold and 9 have gone Platinum. (Adam Lambert, who released For Your Entertainment in November, will soon become the 16th artist with a Gold album).

Very interesting. Are you aware that one of those platinum ablums was Taylor Hicks debut? Puts it all in perspective, doesn’t it.

So even though viewership remains the same, fans looking for someone to really support becomes less and less as each season moves on because they are already supporting someone. Now if I was an invested fan of someone from an earlier season and really wanted them to shine and hold their place in line…would I be buying the new guys material…probably not.

I think placing too much importance on the actual AI fanbase misses the reason behind most of the biggest longterm successes to come off the show. Sure, they started big with initial sales (due to the AI fanbase help) – but that can NEVER sustain these guys beyond the first week or so. So whether they had a huge AI following, stayed true to their AI personas, etc. doesn’t really matter once they release an album. What does matter is getting the radio acceptance, media acceptance and attention (so as not to disappear into obscurity) – and hopefully have a song or two that click with the broader buying public. Carrie, Daughtry, and Kelly all reached outside the bubble. That, in the end, is gonna be the key to longterm success for these guys.

Jim was chomping at the bit in this interview. I’m amazed he didn’t jump at the chance when Randy said his assistant does all his tweets. Grammygate!!!!
I’m disappointed that he didn’t manage a question to get Randy to do his ‘my voice is changing’ falsetto.

Randy, you’re so wrong about Season 8′s debut albums. THis is the first year that I felt the artists identity is stamped all over their albums and they knew who and what they are and want to be. Adam definitely is exactly what I expected. I don’t happen to like it, (totally not my taste) but it is what he represented and promised. His fans seem to like it and he still gets the media buzz. He’s a showman and that’s what his album represents.

Kris’ album is very much Kris and very good to excellant (my tastes again). I don’t think Randy has even heard it other than the single.

Allison’s is good, but I think some of it is the least like her. There are songs on it (Scars especially) that are pure Allison. He is right that she should have a huge career ahead of her. Now get behind the girl!

Randy needs to put the blame for what he’s perceiving as failures …. and they truly are NOT … on the 19 machine and management. He needs to take responsibility for putting down the very people the show puts out there. Get behind them, Randy! Try being supportive for a change. Hell, try paying attention for a change.

So even though viewership remains the same, fans looking for someone to really support becomes less and less as each season moves on because they are already supporting someone. Now if I was an invested fan of someone from an earlier season and really wanted them to shine and hold their place in line…would I be buying the new guys material…probably not.

It’s funny. Season 8 was the first time I really attached to a contestant (actually 2). I own music from both of thos eI’ve attached to at this point. But I also own music from previous Idol contestants. And I will have no problem buying music from others who haven’t put music out from previous seasons (#signMattGiraud) and if I like music put out from Season 9 idols I’ll buy iy as well. While I might love my 2 Season 8 idols, that doesn’t preclude my buying music from other musicians/singers/artists whether they be from Idol or not.

They need to find great singers that look good and also have pleasant personality, so the watchers can “connect” with them. Really, new and original arrangements don’t really matter, it’s the singer’s ability to create a ‘moment’. So combination of the song, vocals, stage presence is the key.

Jordin Sparks has good vocals, a bubbly personality (although she’s put her foot in it a few times), and is, IMO, gorgeous. And she doesn’t appear to have fought for creative control (she’s cowritten a whole four songs across two albums), relying on established hitmakers for her singles.

And it’s gotten her and her label two monster singles, two moderately successful ones, and yet a second album that has gone nowhere and many not even get a third single.

I don’t think people have connected with her, and so, no, song, vocals, and stage presence aren’t enough. I strongly suspect that the viewers that actually buy the albums are the viewers who respond to an artistic POV.

Jordin’s problem is that she failed to establish strong brand. She had big hits, radio loved her and listeners bought her singles and first album. But Jordin didn’t establish herself. We all know who Beyonce or Rihanna are, but Jordin Sparks? Kelly, Carrie and Daughtry all successfully built their name recognition.

And I think here lies one of the main reasons why second albums usually fail. Because Idols don’t establish their brand. Name recognition matters. I think Adam is trying to brand himself now. He knows that he doesn’t have a lot of time – season 9 is here.

And I think here lies one of the main reasons why second albums usually fail. Because Idols don’t establish their brand. Name recognition matters. I think Adam is trying to brand himself now. He knows that he doesn’t have a lot of time – season 9 is here.

I just wish Adam was branding himself with his music more than with who he is being seen with/his celebrity profile. Daughtry did that successfully, as did Carrie, so it is doable

Jordin’s problem is that she failed to establish strong brand. She had big hits, radio loved her and listeners bought her singles and first album. But Jordin didn’t establish herself. We all know who Beyonce or Rihanna are, but Jordin Sparks? Kelly, Carrie and Daughtry all successfully built their name recognition.

Very true. I think any really really successful artist out there HAS created that brand – I can’t really think of many examples of that not being the case. IMO, albums, and the artist brand, are sold more by a successful brand having been established (as in, I want to buy the “Daughtry” or “Carrie” or “Kelly” brand). Those who fail to sell albums well, but do well with singles (Jordin) don’t have that brand established, and instead have songs that sell because people love the tune rather than necessarily care or follow the artist/brand.

And I think here lies one of the main reasons why second albums usually fail. Because Idols don’t establish their brand. Name recognition matters. I think Adam is trying to brand himself now. He knows that he doesn’t have a lot of time – season 9 is here.

I think Adam is one of the most self-aware AIers ever to be conscious of wanting to create and maintain a strong brand for himself, and I think he has done a pretty good job of that so far (just think of how many people outside of AI know of him, and have a pretty strong idea of what he’s about).

Granted, the many sides of him, the AMAs, etc. have created some conflicting and/or biased views of him (as in, peeps saying “well based on the AMAs I know he’s ONLY about that”), so I do agree with anovich too, that he needs to make sure the brand is as strong with the music, as it is with the rest of him.

A brand is, by definition, a complete package (not just the music one sings on an album) – but his brand needs to bring together those elements in a way that the average joe understands it better. I think he is making a lot of progress in that regard.

On the flip side, I think Kris and Allison need to work more at establishing their own brands (even if they have them, they also need to make people AWARE of those brands) – I think Kris already knows who he is pretty clearly, and just needs to get that out there more (not gonna go into a whole PR campaign analysis now, but hopefully you get my point).

I don’t think Randy knows what he’s saying from one minute to the next, anyway. He came off defensive and cranky here, as if he resents the fact that Paula left and got a bunch of press and articles about “Will Idol Die Without Paula???” and then Simon announced he’s leaving and got a bunch of press and articles about “Will Idol Die Without Simon???”, leaving Randy all, what am I, chopped liver? So he has to come out and make all these testy, self-aggrandizing pronouncements — See, I know what I’m talking about! I have YEARS in the biz, baby, YEARS! — because he feels he isn’t getting his due or being taken as seriously as Paula and Simon.

Meanwhile, the things he’s actually saying are nonsense. Kelly’s big smash breakthrough on the show was a swing tune from the 40s. Nothing she has recorded has sounded remotely like that. And when she tried to say she knew who she was and she wanted to record songs she wrote that meant something to her, Clive dumped all over her and the record didn’t sell.

Brooke, Randy’s pet project, certainly stayed true to herself, and her album has sold okay for such a small project, but certainly not gangbusters. And how about Kristy Lee Cook? She certainly stayed true to herself and what she did on Idol, she was in the same niche as Carrie, and she BOMBED.

IMO Daughtry turned out exactly the album we all knew he would and sold a ton, Fantasia turned out the album I expected and sold not very many, and J-Hud is a huge star because she won an Oscar and not for her music at all (except that the music was included in her Oscar-winning performance). Clay and Ruben also did what was expected, with big boffo early sales and disappointing careers later. Taylor? No clue if his album sounded like 70s Michael McDonald (what I would’ve expected) but it, too, was boffo out of the gate and then kinda died. Jordin is the total opposite — huge singles (and the biggest one’s success is probably due more to Chris Brown than to her) but her album sold very slowly and she can’t seem to open a tour by herself. Melinda Doolittle, JPL, KLC, Brooke, Michael Johns, Josh Gracin, George Huff, Constantine, Bo, Jasmine Trias, Kat McPhee, Pickler, Paris, Taylor Hicks, Cook, Archie, Elliott, Carly, Blake, Justin — each one has taken a different path from the others, which makes sweeping conclusions and comparisons pretty much impossible (but makes it crystal clear that Randy is talking crap — “the girls” includes Kat and Mindy and Kristy Lee and Jasmine, and are they really more successful than “the boys” like Archie or Elliott or George Huff or Clay? Randy spouts superficial bullshit that can’t stand even the most superficial examination, like always.)

And with Kris, Adam, Danny, Allison, Anoop, Matt and Megan, last season’s boys and girls, it’s way too early to tell. For all we know, Alex Wagner-Trugman will be cast as the new film Spiderman, win an Oscar, and emerge as the big hit of season 8. (See: Hudson, Jennifer.)

So what can we really learn from all of this? That Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood and Chris Daughtry were the right people in the right place at the right time. Whether Kelly and Chris can continue to sustain it, we dunno yet. Carrie seems to be sustaining just fine. But the crystal ball is still murky for everyone else. Jordin may be the Tiffany of her time and be showing up on “I Used To Be a Celebrity, Let Me In Here” in ten years. Or that could be Cook, Archie, Pickler, Adam, or anybody else. But Randy “Superficial Bullshit” Jackson sure doesn’t know.

This is probably totally cynical of me but it sounds like the verbal version of throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks. I think Randy’s dismissive comments about Kris and Adam (and male Idols in general) are not because he really feels that way about them but rather a typically Randy-Jackson-verbal-diarrea bit of spin because they (19E, Simon, Randy, etc.) had unrealistic or short-sighted expectations or are just grasping at straws to figure out what will sell in the marketplace these days from a AI winner.

So what do they want? They want another or knock-off version of LadyGaGa/KatyPerry/P!nk/Kelly Clarkson/Carrie Underwood/Taylor Swift. Hence, Randy talks about how it’s a girls’ year.

Yet, for all the talk on the show about “commercial”, “package artists”, and “making it your own”, the fact is that an (arguably) unstylish, plain looking, middle-aged British spinster and reality show contestant sold hundreds of thousands more units singing covers of old songs, than the declared “international star” Adam Lambert or this year’s American Idol Kris Allen singing original material. In the mean time, except for Carrie and Kelly (and maybe Daughtry), the other Idol alums with new albums this year have not sold the kind of huge numbers that they had in the past. I’m sure this is not wasted on Randy, Simon and 19E.

I think it may be that some of the bloom is off the rose for AI after 8 seasons. Maybe the market is too saturated with Idol product and there’s only so much fan goodwill to go around with less disposable income to by full CDs. It may be that there will never be another success like Carrie or Kelly off of AI and if it’s important to the PTB to appear to be hit makers, maybe they will need to redefine post-Idol success for their recording artists.

Very interesting. Are you aware that one of those platinum albums was Taylor Hicks debut? Puts it all in perspective, doesn’t it.

Yup! And not to start another Taylor discussion, but I think he was treated like crap by the show. There is (clearly in view of the recent success of SuBo, Barbra, John Groban, the so and son sings the greatest hits of the 50s or the great american songbook) a market for “non pop/radio” acts. Taylor was never gonna be a radio hitmaker and they never should have tried to get him to be one and castigate him when he wasn’t…if he had been marketed as an album-oriented live performer, he would have been in better shape. All of that being said, he is making a good living as a performer and props to him for that.

Man, why did Jim C just let Randy BS spout like that without challenging him or cutting him down a bit? Randy’s people must’ve warned him not to ask about the Grammy tweetgate, but Jim could’ve countered Randy’s broad, and largely inaccurate statements about the girl vs boy post-Idol album sales, easily, and pushed him to at least think about the stuff he’s claiming. I hope Slezak gets a shot at interviewing Randy. He tends to ask some hard-hitting questions.

I haven’t watched the Randy interview yet. But I’ve gone on record in the past stating that I like Randy as a judge — much better than Paula or Kara and better than Simon (who is all about Simon). Randy doesn’t get enough respect from the AI show in terms of airtime — sooo much focus on Simon/Paula in the past.

I also like Adam’s album.

Regarding debut Idol albums, I don’t believe that Idols have much power in shaping those. The Idols can say otherwise, but I’m not convinced.

And the funny thing about this discussion in the context of this thread regarding Randy: when Kris performed Heartless Randy said he liked his version better than Kanye’s or the Fray’s. Yet Randy still seems against modern music (this from the judge who also was co-responsible for asssigning Kris the modern Apologize as his juedges choice song).

Randy also told Kris during the competition that he knew exactly who he was yet now he’s saying only the girls know who they are. I think Kris does know who he is, yet as Mary102 said, he needs to work on selling that now.

It’s Randy who doesn’t know who he is. Kris, Adam, the Davids, Taylor, Bo, Blake, etc., all know perfectly well who they are. ….

Randy has a hard time figuring out who *he* is because he’s obviously accepted a contract that requires him to spout whatever stupid statements TPTB want foisted abroad about the show, any time they ask him to say them. …

Like Final 3 night in Season Five when they wanted to make absolutely sure that they Elliott got voted off. At producers’ direction — I’m convinced, since he’d never said anything like this to Elliott before — Randy declared that he was sharp throughout his whole song, which he really wasn’t. But Randy follows orders beautifully. I’ve seen him do stuff like this over and over again — out of the blue comments that go against everything else he’s ever said to someone but that follow what you figure is TPTB’s agenda so perfectly that it’s hard to imagine he’s saying them for any other reason.

That Randy. Doesn’t know who he is. No wonder his Randy Jackson’s Music Club album was so horrendous (despite having a ton of good talent on it).

I find it very amusing that music peeps are salivating over the thought of discovering another SuBo, yet the only “big” contestants advanced (that I have seen) are male and the usual fembots are voted thru.

SuBo wouldn’t have made it to the final audition. Actually, more sad than amusing. AI wants a “pretty package”.

edit: edited the post you were responding to

So what exactly are Randy’s proven successes? Him as a member of Journey? Well, he wasn’t a member when Journey was most successful, in fact he was really more of a session musician, meaning his creative contributions to most of the recordings he did with them, as well as various other bands and singers, were minimal. So what were his successes as an A&R man or producer? I don’t know, perhaps you can let us know. I’m sure he had some successes, but then I’m equally sure there are many others who have much more impressive résumé who can take his place as a judge.

I happen to agree with Randy (but only to a certain extent) about older music being better (I’d say the golden age of popular music is from the mid-fifties to mid-eighties), although I think a lot of the problem has to do with the popularity of hip-hop for the past couple of decades, the sampling of other people’s music and rapping (rapping isn’t really quite music). I should also say the audible auto-tuning is often done for sound effect and not because the singer can’t sing in tune. They like interesting and unusual sound effect in hip-hop. But hip hop looks to me to be on the decline, consequently the music scene is I think improving a bit in recent years (rock not so much, but there’s always hope). 2009 was not a great year for music though IMO.

“At producers’ direction — I’m convinced, since he’d never said anything like this to Elliott before — Randy declared that he was sharp throughout his whole song, which he really wasn’t. But Randy follows orders beautifully. I’ve seen him do stuff like this over and over again — out of the blue comments that go against everything else he’s ever said to someone but that follow what you figure is TPTB’s agenda so perfectly that it’s hard to imagine he’s saying them for any other reason.” — lucy

When this subject is broached, most people counter with “it’s a reality show first and foremost.” Judges changing opinions on a dime without merit, irk me. Sure, negative opinions are acceptable when the singer is having a bad night, most viewers who aren’t tone-deaf or wearing rose-colored glasses, will probably agree or at the very least notice as well. That said, most viewers can easily spot when things are ingenuous, when an ambush is in the works. As a viewer, I want to believe the judges’ critiques are not mired in hidden agendas, I want to believe they are being honest with me. That’s the crux of it for me — TRUST being the key. Why should the audience believe a word they have to say?

I’ve lost faith in them long ago. But, on a more positive note, I have always formulated my opinion. I’m the best judge when it comes to my own musical tastes. I don’t need them to tell me who I should like.

evanjane
I’ve lost faith in them long ago. But, on a more positive note, I have always formulated my opinion. I’m the best judge when it comes to my own musical tastes. I don’t need them to tell me who I should like.

That’s for sure! (I learned that during Season 8!) :grin:

sma11ie, I think I agree with everything you said! Well put. :smile:

However, as far as the whole changing things up goes in context to Randy’s comments, this is why I think his comments are total BS. Both these guys clearly know who they are and their albums reflect it. Kris is the laid back soft rocker guy and Adam is the hip contemporary club going pop/rock guy. They each changed their songs up on the theme weeks to play to their strengths. This is another reason these 2 made it to the top, because most everyone else didn’t switch things up effectively.

I think both their post-idol albums are exactly what I expected from them, and Randy is just out of touch. He wants Whitney and Mariah Types…that’s well and good, if it were the 90′s again, they just are not relevant artists in this age. They will always be iconic but the Diva thing is done and over for the time being. To crown a Diva idol will most likely end up with a fail for Idol as far as post idol sales go. JMHO

Justin8602
01/21/2010 at 6:26 pm

However, as far as the whole changing things up goes in context to Randy’s comments, this is why I think his comments are total BS. Both these guys clearly know who they are and their albums reflect it. Kris is the laid back soft rocker guy and Adam is the hip contemporary club going pop/rock guy. They each changed their songs up on the theme weeks to play to their strengths. This is another reason these 2 made it to the top, because most everyone else didn’t switch things up effectively.

EXACTLY. Well said.

About the girls knowing who they are and the guys don’t:

Um, SHUT UP, Randy!

Yeah, I signed in just to say THAT.

And, yeah, I’m taking it personally on behalf of David Cook and Adam. I’d take it personally for Archie and Kris, but I’m not that invested. ;-) I’d take it personally for Jason Castro, but he’s not released an album yet, so I’m ignoring on his behalf what might be a pre-emptive diss, not to mention his songs so far sound JUST LIKE WHO HE IS!

Sheesh, sorry, rant over….

In answer to Hazehel, as I said, I don’t agree with Randy on everything but I do think the man knows what he’s talking about. He knows the industry inside and out, something we don’t, no matter how closely we observe AI and scan the internet for information. I won’t go through each point Randy made because I, like all of us here, can’t possibly have all the information. I have my own viewpoints and gut feelings, but I know they’re just that. Sure, I try to be as informed as possible but there is a vast difference between a layperson’s informed opinion and an industry person’s informed opinion. Experience matters.

On Randy’s cred in the industry, here’s a summary:
• Attended Southern University, Baton Rouge, double majoring in music and psychology
• Played bass and keyboards on over 1,000 jazz, pop and rock albums, including Journey, Jean-Luc Ponty, Bobby McFerrin, Carlos Santana, Jerry Garcia, Madonna, Tracy Chapman, Kenny G, Aretha Franklin, Cher, Elton John, Michael Bolton, Richard Marx, Whitesnake, Bon Jovi, Billy Joel, Herbie Hancock, Stevie Nicks, the Charlie Daniels Band, Blue Oyster Cult, Bruce Springsteen, Whitney Houston, *NSYNC, Celine Dion, Bob Dylan, even Kelly Clarkson.
• Is credited with over a thousand gold and platinum albums
• Wrote, produced and served as Musical Director for Mariah Carey
• VP of A&R at Columbia Records, 8 yrs, 1990s.
• Senior VP of A&R at MCA Records, 4 yrs, 1990s.
• Teacher of Recording Industry Classes, UCLA, 1990s
• Author, “What’s Up Dawg?: How to Become a Superstar in the Music Business.”
• Executive producer of “Randy Jackson Present’s America’s Best Dance Crew”
• Manager, Charlotte-based band, Paper Tongues

As I said, the man knows what he’s talking about.

Reminder:

And we’re rehashing Season 8 because….???

Please stick to the subject.

Just deleted a PILE of posts.

On Randy’s cred in the industry, here’s a summary:

Once you remove him playing as session musician for other people, irrelevant things like being an author and being manager of minor bands, what’s left music-wise? His work with Mariah Carey, and him as an A&R man. Are you claiming that he had a big hand in the 1000s of records claimed by him, or just because he played a few notes on the bass? I’m sure you are impressed, but to me, that just run of the mill for many in the music industry.

None of that important, I certainly won’t take the word of someone simply because he used to play bass in Journey or knew Mariah Carey well. If what he said sounded like rubbish, then it is rubbish. It is up to you to refute the points many of us made about he said if you want to support what he said. Do you or do you not believe the boys don’t know who they are? Do you or do you not believe the girls made better albums because they know who they are? Those aren’t insider information, those are things anyone with good sense and followed AI with some interest can see. For example, does Kelly Clarkson know who she is? Why is the album that she most wanted to make the least successful one? How do you square that with what Randy said?

In answer to Hazehel, as I said, I don’t agree with Randy on everything but I do think the man knows what he’s talking about. He knows the industry inside and out, something we don’t, no matter how closely we observe AI and scan the internet for information

Just because he has had a lot of experience in the music industry, that doesn’t make his word gospel. There are a lot of experienced people in the biz who, for whatever reason, can still make asinine statements about the industry. My boss constantly messes up, but he’s got a lot more experience in the field than I do. ;-)

Where I find the most fault with Randy is, as other’s have mentioned, the fact that there are just so many examples where his statement is NOT true. Completely ignoring Daughtry, for one, or Cook, or the earlier male success stories where the guys mainly stayed true to themselves, not to mention Kelly being hugely successful, but actually veering from that “pop” model to produce her most unsuccessful album, etc.

I could care less how many years he spent with Journey – his statement just doesn’t hold much water imo.

Where I agree with him is that an artist needs to know who they are to be successful (there are probably exceptions, when people got lucky, but those “successes” are probably short-lived). But as for WHO was successful at that from AI, I don’t agree with him.

I guess if all that time working as both a musician, producer, writer and A&R guy doesn’t mean anything to you, then nothing would. I don’t think working on about a thousand gold and platinum albums is run of the mill for anyone in the music industry. That is not just a claim Randy made. Its just widely known information. The man obviously lives and breathes music, both as a performer and writer and on the other end in management, production and developing new talent. And, since he is human, even with all that experience working with some of the best in the business, he still carries his own judgment and personal tastes.

As to the specifics in the interview, I think he was making blanket statements as a way to make his point. Pretty common practice. This was a public interview and his job is to sell this reality TV show. That’s all it is. And as a TV show, AI comes loaded with an arc, over-riding themes, built-in drama and suspense, all elements to keep viewers watching. It’s about entertainment and getting the suits a good return on their investment. I don’t buy the conspiracy theories so much as understand that their job is to produce good TV. Many former Idols have said as much, not as a putdown, just as a means of understanding what the show is and is not.

So yeah, Randy overstated the boys vs. girls theme a bit. It’s TV, not high literature, so I take it all as par for the course. I can’t get too worked up about it. Everything on TV is blown up larger than life cause that’s how the medium rolls.

Even so, I think there’s some truth in what he said. I think Kelly and Carrie are so successful because they both have clear musical identities, are both incredibly talented and also importantly fit a particularly popular niche in today’s musical market. Same with Daughtry. I can definitely see the argument that neither Kris nor Adam have done as good a job at establishing clear musical identities, yet (the operative word). As far as the other seasons go, I think each particular case is different. Many past Idols do have clear musical identities but just aren’t making as big a splash. There are so many factors involved, from personality, charisma, niche timing, niche saturation…Others are less well-defined and their careers suffer as a result.

When it gets down to it, I have my own personal tastes and generally don’t jump on mass commercial music, as a whole. I still find Randy’s insights interesting as I do think he has a insider’s look at what makes a successful artist. And when I like an artist and become a fan, obviously, I find his perspectives valuable. Yes, there have been times I thought he was playing the suit role a little too heavily for my tastes, but the music industry is a brutal place. So even his about faces and frustratingly rote playbook lines, I’m sure, are fairly standard industry practices. I guess I consider Randy’s position, both in the industry and on the TV show, and adjust my expectations accordingly.

movin2thabeet – I think you make some strong arguments for your side (lol – what are we in court?! j/k) And I definitely respect that, even if we’ll have to agree to disagree :-)

FWIW – I actually jumped back on the Randy train this last season, when I saw the S8 reruns. He recognized some of the best talent early on, before some of the other judges (cough*Simon*cough) could see it. He was a big fan of Adam’s from day one, when the other’s called him too theatrical. He got major props from me for that :-)

ETA: Oh, and I do agree with a lot of your comments too!

Mary102 – We’re cool then. It’s funny because as a longtime Idol watcher, I have a kind of love/not-love thing going for Randy, well, to be honest, really, with the whole show (but that’s a whole nother story). My problems with Randy reached a peak during Season 7 which just happened to be when my passions were running the highest. I just felt called to post here since I felt the guy was being unfairly dismissed. Maybe sometimes he does his job as an industry insider’s voice too well. Really, we have very little exposure to these guys since all their activity happens behind closed doors. But from all I’ve heard, the people that populate the industry can be a very tough crowd. We have gotten a taste of Clive Davis on this show and he was nearly uniformly hated as a result. If anything, Randy is kind of a benign face of the industry and generally mildly received.

Randy Jackson. Living proof that of the Peter Principle.

I really don’t know how Randy Jackson is measuring success. I think he is underestimating or ignoring David Cook and especially Daughtry, who both really knew who they were.

Last week, I had done a comparison of the Billboard 200 year end charts for the rankings the winners debut albums. I think that this is a fair comparison since album sales have decreased the past couple of years and this approximates how they ranked without relying on album sales.

Of the winners, I found that Carrie Underwood’s was the highest ranking, she had the #1 album of 2006. David Cook had the #13 album of 2009, which was the second highest of the Idol winners. The rest of the winners, including Kelly Clarkson, were ranked in the 20′s and 30′s except for Taylor Hicks, who was #74 in 2007. I also looked up Daughtry who was #1 in 2007.

The point is, I think David Cook was successful considering what album sales were this past year, being that his was the 13th highest cd. If the total album sales were what they had been in the past at that ranking, he might have had one of the highest selling debuts of the idol winners, probably second behind Carrie’s, so he would be one of the most successful winners . And he had the most successful first tour of any of the idol winners. The statement that Randy Jackson made ignores or underestimates his and Daughtry’s success.

Even so, I think there’s some truth in what he said. I think Kelly and Carrie are so successful because they both have clear musical identities, are both incredibly talented and also importantly fit a particularly popular niche in today’s musical market.

I agree to an extent, but…. Really, as I look back, it seems to me that Kelly and Carrie are two who had the least idea of “who they were” as artists in the beginning. Rather, they were moldable and directable. They could be made to fit a popular niche which in turn fit their perceived persona and styles. To me, Kelly’s detour on My December shows “who she is” more than anything, and while an excellent album imo, it did not receive overwhelming popular or commercial success. Carrie seems now to want to delve into pop/rock, and while crossing over can be a huge financial windfall, her interest seems to come from her historic love for the genre (and to me a glimpse into “who she is” really.)

So, no, I don’t agree with Randy on the point. Those two were clay (small “c” :-)) for the industry to mold. Cook and Chris and Kris and to a large extent, Adam, were not. They knew who they were and they had a long run of experience that had already shaped their musical identity. Seems to me they reflect more aptly what happens in the industry most often. Those who stay true to themselves may or may not break big in the industry at any given time, based on exposure, opportunity, genuine backing from label/mgmt, and what is or is not commercially popular at the moment.

Just an opinion… which, really, is all Randy offered. I’ve no issue with him, his background, his having an opinion that differs from mine, what have you. I’m only bothered that he so publicly dissed the guys from the show that were so popular and beloved… and brought the show its great ratings and success in their respective years. It happens all the time, I know, but I don’t have to like it. :-)

I can’t remember which interview it was, but Adam did say that he had trouble figuring out what he wanted to do on his album in the beginning. So I don’t understand why Randy’s comments are such a big deal. Adam made an eclectic, genre-hopping album. It’s tough to categorize, so people that don’t know him might be confused about what his “sound” is. I actually blame his management for that– they should have given him some guidance.

I agree to an extent, but…. Really, as I look back, it seems to me that Kelly and Carrie are two who had the least idea of “who they were” as artists in the beginning. Rather, they were moldable and directable. They could be made to fit a popular niche which in turn fit their perceived persona and styles….
…….. Carrie seems now to want to delve into pop/rock, and while crossing over can be a huge financial windfall, her interest seems to come from her historic love for the genre (and to me a glimpse into “who she is” really.)

I’m not sure about Kelly, but for Carrie, the producers did try to push her to Pop right after she won. She could’ve easily made a Pop debut album and sell reasonably well (probably 2X platinum based on AI history at that time) to cash in on her AI fanbase. But she didn’t. Had she done that, she would probably not be looking at a 3rd consecutive successful album right now. So kudos to her for knowing what she wants and who she is musically even back when she was so-called “moldable”.

I can’t remember which interview it was, but Adam did say that he had trouble figuring out what he wanted to do on his album in the beginning.

Yes, he did comment about having some trouble deciding between how much rock vs pop to put on the album, whether to go more one direction or another.

IDK – I feel like it’s a catchy-22 with the success of some of these albums. Adam’s was very well received by critics, and I truly don’t think I would have anywhere near as much love for it if he had just gone completely down one path. Daughtry’s album, and a lot of other AI albums too, bore me after one or two listens because of how much everything sounds the same. I even have a bit of that problem with Gaga’s album, which I just purchased.

If we’re getting at the idea of making sure the artist KNOWS who they are (per Randy), then I feel being eclectic, and knowing that that is what you are (as in Adam’s case) – is still a viable path to go down, even if it’s not as easy, particularly with a debut, as, say, going straight down the rock road, or pop road, etc.

But then it just becomes a matter of still molding that music brand into a cohesive unit that the buying public understands and wants more of. That becomes the trickier thing, particularly if the album is more eclectic.

IDK, no easy answers. As I said, I would not be as much of a fan of Adam’s album if he had just gone down one path – but it likely would have made it an easier to digest mass-consumption product if he had done that (a la Carrie, or Daughtry going the Nickelback route, etc.)

As to the specifics in the interview, I think he was making blanket statements as a way to make his point.

The problem with what you said is that nearly all his statements fall down once you examine them closely, so I don’t really know what you are agreeing with him on. The fact is that for most, if not all, of the former winners/contestants, girls or boys, their first album would not really reflect who they are, so the statement about the album selling because they know who they are is just nonsense. Most of the those coming off Idol are people who have been around for a while, know how tough it is to get established, and are keen to make an album so they can make it in the business. Compromises are invariably made (and if they are young and green like Archie or Jordin then they are even more easily moldable). Do I think David Cook’s first album truly reflects who he is? Certainly not, despite his protestation it is the album he wanted to make, neither can anyone say that about Kelly Clarkson or Carrie Underwood’s first album. Those albums aren’t about who they are, it’s to a large extent about what the industry wanted. But I would definitely argue that there is more of David Cook in his first album than there is Kelly Clarkson in hers, and more for Daughtry than Carrie (the gender argument is therefore completely false).

If you want example of people who know who they are and made the first album that they wanted, I can give you Tamyra Gray of Season 1, one of the finest singers to come out of AI and one many thought could be huge. She fought to make the album she wanted, and she got it. Kelly Clarkson however was compliant and make the album other people wanted. Tamyra Gray’s album flopped, Kelly Clarkson’s went double platinum. So what has being who you are got to do with the success of the album?

Mary102, This is exactly where the expertise of A&R guys is so valuable. We, the general public, have no easy answers, but knowing what makes marketable music is exactly what they specialize in.

I think what Randy means when he says an artists knows themselves, is not that they know what kind of music they like to do or even comes naturally to them. I think he means what music moves them that is also highly marketable. Sure, Kelly likes all kinds of music, as does Carrie. But for them to know which of all those styles will make for a successful career is the key. It all gets back to that art-commerce spectrum that Randy touched on. Its the magic key, something A&R folks spend their lives on perfecting. Its an art to find that point where the artist finds their sweet spot spotlighting their unique voice that also captures the public imagination. And of course that spot changes as both the artist and public changes.

Maybe Randy didn’t mention David Cook and Chris Daughtry because not enough time has passed to make a good judgment. Dave had a great selling first album all things considered, but fairly unanimously critics are waiting for the sophomore album to see if he can hit it out of the park. And Daughtry caught a great Nickelback wave. What happens next after that wave has passed?

As for Kris and Adam, again, time will tell. Adam’s eclectic album was a choice that might or might not have been a good one. Idol’s first albums are almost always a dicey proposition and I really think their followup albums give a better idea of what will happen with their careers. Daughtry’s album was a shining exception.

Adam’s was very well received by critics, and I truly don’t think I would have anywhere near as much love for it if he had just gone completely down one path.

These are two separate statements, though. If you look back at Metacritic, some of the strongest reviews are favorable in spite of the eclecticism, not because of it.

Me? I like arcs. I think an album should be a cohesive statement. Not necessarily 12-songs-in-72-minutes, but a collection of ideas and styles that mesh. And I think there is room to do that without everything sounding the same, but album sequencing is an art that takes time.

And my personal problem with RJ is that he is talking out of both sides of his mouth but not acknowledging it. “I support choice A because it makes for better TV.” “I support choice B because it helps the artist showcase their identity better.” Sometimes choice A and choice B are directly in conflict, and with his years of experience, he should KNOW that, and at least do his audience the courtesy of acknowledging the needle that must be threaded.

movin2thabeet – I’m enjoying your posts – very well thought out :-)

I think Adam’s biggest problem truly is that what he is trying to do is not widely done now on radio right now. Radio is so slow to change, and it latches on to whatever the current fad is and runs with that. It eventually picks up on something new, but even that is usually not a great departure from what was previously on.

So, Adam comes onto the scene as quite possibly that new, changing thing on radio (one of the reasons I feel RCA, etc were so eager to have him.) It was a risk, but as with many risks, the rewards could be much higher as a result. So, what he essentially is trying to do is be a male, solo, pop star (as in, not part of a group). Just looking at the charts, you can easily see how much that field is dominated by women – men haven’t really been able to break into it as easily, at least not recently (JT comes the closest, and he is also more R&B than dance leaning).

So, the confusion behind FYE (the single) notwithstanding, you essentially have a situation where his biggest in-roads on radio have been with WWFM, and I think Sleepwalker could be another hit on radio. But neither is really “pop”-dance, which is one of his leanings. I have a feeling Adam fell into the problem of trying to really go more the pop-dance-electronic glam route, but needing to “play it safe” with a few radio friendly songs like WWFM that were more similar to the light rock that actually DOES have some male presence on the radio (the success of LLWD is another example of that).

So, it can’t be an easy position for him, or his team, to really be in. I personally think that radio WILL eventually embrace that male-pop side of him, and my personal bet would be to have a duet with Gaga on Fever released – it’s dance-pop, and with Gaga’s golden touch, he could FINALLY be embraced by radio for the pop-dance stuff going forward.

I’m only bothered that he so publicly dissed the guys from the show that were so popular and beloved… and brought the show its great ratings and success in their respective years.

Seriously, Idol does this a lot. They are often quick to throw past Idols under the bus to make way for the next season. I remember even Simon telling someone, I forget who, “I like you better than last year’s winner.” “Last year’s winner” was Carrie, whom Simon had praised endlessly just a few months earlier. That was just a casual comment but it shows how disloyal they often are, and how expendible the Idols are in their minds.

Each year when the new season starts, they announce if men or women will win this time (and then they stack the deck or else they turn out to be wrong). Then they say “this is the best season ever, these are the most talented contestants ever,” and in many ways they dismiss previous contestants and even winners. Take it all with a grain of salt.

mj, I don’t even know what I said that would get me banned!! It would help to know!

The problem with what you said is that nearly all his statements fall down once you examine them closely, so I don’t really know what you are agreeing with him on. The fact is that for most, if not all, of the former winners/contestants, girls or boys, their first album would not really reflect who they are, so the statement about the album selling because they know who they are is just nonsense. Most of the those coming off Idol are people who have been around for a while, know how tough it is to get established, and are keen to make an album so they can make it in the business. Compromises are invariably made (and if they are young and green like Archie or Jordin then they are even more easily moldable). Do I think David Cook’s first album truly reflects who he is? Certainly not, despite his protestation it is the album he wanted to make, neither can anyone say that about Kelly Clarkson or Carrie Underwood’s first album. Those albums aren’t about who they are, it’s to a large extent about what the industry wanted. But I would definitely argue that there is more of David Cook in his first album than there is Kelly Clarkson in hers, and more for Daughtry than Carrie (the gender argument is therefore completely false).

I agree with you on this. I think especially in David Cook’s case, I do think there were some compromises. Especially since on his tour, he did some songs that didn’t make the album, and that the concerts were much harder rock than the album was. But I do think that he had alot of himself in his album. I could definately hear his style in the songs he cowrote, based on hearing Analog Heart, which he wrote himself. And also Permanent was very personal to him, actually just about all the songs he cowrote were.

So, I definately don’t get where Randy Jackson is coming from in that statement. It does seem like they are setting up for a woman to win this year, but there is no need to put down former winners, especially a whole gender. I don’t really care if its a man or a woman who wins, I just want to enjoy watching the show.

Randy is exactly right. Adam was Rock and Roll and his album was ‘the most highly anticipated”-good old rock and roll with his voice singing those great songs-wow- BUT THEN -what did we get- we got electro pop.We desperately need a great rock and roll star. Hope we get one- imagine ACDC but with a singer like Adam. Like what we expected.