Q&A With Brian Mansfield and Richard Rushfield

Ohhh, bitter induced backstage gossip. So getting my popcorn out now and looking forward to chats.

Amen to that Truthiness, sounds fun!

Hey MJ, is it okay to ask “Who’s the most annoying: The Claymates, Soul Patrol or Cooktards?” LOL. I’m thinking it’s still the Claymates. Those peeps have staying power

MJ I think that you should add Glamberts & Co. to the fan list for SpenserJ’s question.

Oooh, I wish Junot would spill, but I think his annoyance will be quelled before the chat. I too think he was jobbed, seriously, but I also think he shot himself in the foot with the shot of cortizone. That was TMI and might have led people to believe that he would survive the rigorous competition.

Hey MJ, is it okay to ask ‘Who’s the most annoying: The Claymates, Soul Patrol or Cooktards?’  LOL. I’m thinking it’s still the Claymates. Those peeps have staying power

SpenserJ, I think the answer would be the claymates, only because they always want to win everything, like their insessant spamming of polls that they were known for. No matter how silly, they made sure Clay won. Hell they are still doing it, there are just fewer of them around now, so the power is diminished, the crazy is still there. They also had like a committee to patrol articles, blog and comments and bring back news of any Clay bashing.

I love the name Glamberts, it’s the coolest, since the Soul Patrol. I am neither though, I am a fan of both guys. Names are just silly, lol.

Hey MJ, is it okay to ask ‘Who’s the most annoying: The Claymates, Soul Patrol or Cooktards?”

it’s probably the Claymates yea but I know more about the Cooktards antics since I only started following AI hardcore last year so I’m gonna say them! haha

Sorry for the oversight Q3!

I love the name Glamberts, it’s the coolest, since the Soul Patrol. I am neither though, I am a fan of both guys. Names are just silly, lol.

I’m not a fan of the fanbase nicknames either. They’re made up by like 4 chicks on a fanboard and the next thing you know they’re being applied to thousands of people. I was a Taylor fan, but most definitely not a member of the Soul Patrol. As I am an Adam fan, but for sure never have been, nor ever will be a Glambert.

Hm, here’s a question:

What has been the most rewarding aspect of your jobs:? What has been the most annoying aspects?

Another: Who are your favorite Idols (winners or not) and why? And of the current crop, who do you think will have the most success and why?

MJ, could you ask them if they think the changes to Idol made during the past season should be kept — 4th judge and save in particular.

Also, I would like to get their opinion on what 1 change they would make to improve the show.

I would like to know if they think the Idol results are manipulated, considering all the disclaimers involved with the voting, etc.

Question:

Do these gentlemen think all this “Lambert-mania” is going to translate into record sales, or do they think it might all fizzle with a Taylor Hicks-like letdown?

I’d like to know all the inside scoop on Richard Rushfield’s move. If not, maybe something boringly informative like his view on the (dying) state of journalism today. LOL Ok, maybe not. But still, I’m curious.

I am boldly interested in whether Brian believes re-vamping his site and including a forum will make him competitive with mjsbigblog in a few years.

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I felt that the Top 36 elimination format this past season was grossly unfair, favoring contestants who had been featured prominently by the producers during auditions and Hollywood week. Do you guys agree?

As I am an Adam fan, but for sure never have been, nor ever will be a Glambert.

I didn’t realize for a long that there was literally a fan group called the Glamberts. I thought it was just a nickname some Adam fans gave themselves–after all, Amy Adams referred to herself as a Glambert, and I highly doubt she’s actually a member of the group.

As I am an Adam fan, but for sure never have been, nor ever will be a Glambert.

Ditto!

I felt that the Top 36 elimination format this past season was grossly unfair, favoring contestants who had been featured prominently by the producers during auditions and Hollywood week.

Yes, but somehow the system managed to get us Adam, Kris, and Allison, so maybe it works?

so how do you ask the questions? do you post it on the thread?

Yes, but somehow the system managed to get us Adam, Kris, and Allison, so maybe it works?

Yeah, but it gave us Scott, who shouldn’t even have made it out of Hollywood, and Megan, ditto.

IS it still on? Am I too late too ask a question?

Never mind I see that it is. For some reason the live blog wouldn’t update for me until I refreshed.

wow! some really good questions here

so how do you ask the questions? do you post it on the thread?

There was an earlier thread also, which I didn’t have a chance to look at or my questions wouldn’t have been so redundant. Anyhoo, it’s over. That was fun MJ, thanks! (The UN of Idol Nation!)

Yeah, but it gave us Scott, who shouldn’t even have made it out of Hollywood, and Megan, ditto.

I don’t think Scott was a function of the format this year. I think “Blind Guy” was making the top 12/13 whatever no matter how they did. They so wanted to tell that story on tv.

Thanks for the live chat MJ. That was really quite interesting. You all asked good questions. I love that Coveritlive thing. So convenient!

Thanks for having this MJ. They were both really great. I hope you do do it again.

That was fun, thanks MJ. Coveritlive is very cool, great find!

That was a really interesting chat, MJ! Awesome job!

That was awesome guys!

I may set up chats with some other peeps.

My friend Jim Cantiello would do it. And I’ll bet I could get slezak too.

Maybe Rickey or Dave

Great talk. Hope you do it again.

My friend Jim Cantiello would do it.

I would be so excited if this happened! and I love Slezak and Rickey too!

Oh, Slezak, PLEASE!!!

That was a fun chat. Would love to do that again!

As for how they got to the top12/13, I hated it as I thought it took the choice out of the viewers hands, yet I must say the result gave us an incredible touring group. With the exception of Megan, and possibly the inclusion….these guys are damn good, even Danny and Lil! And the way I ragged on Matt, and now he would be in my top 6 for sure. So it wasn’t totally messed up, imho.

MJ that was fantastic! Both Richard and Brian rocked! I hope youll be able to do this again soon Thank you!

MJ the chat was great.

IMO best line of the whole chat in response to a question about the producers’ audience manipulation:

Brian Mansfield: Think of manipulation as the ramp going up as you get ready to jump that shark.

MJ, that was really cool. I dropped by thinking I would just glance, then had to read the whole thing!

So many questions it would be fun to have them chew over if you can arrange a second round:

What was the best finale or finale moment of all seasons?

Judges’ overt favoritism–not the subtle stuff, or vague hype like “you’ll be a big star,” but the direct, repeated statements by the judges on the show and on talk shows about who the finale two or winner will be.
–it’s generally hated by fans. Why do you think the producers’ embrace it?
–many fans think there a direct backfire effect in seasons 7 and 8. Agree? Disagree?

Idol in US pop music history: as a launching ground for pop singers, is it any/more less valid then past eras? In the past, getting on a hit show like Ed Sullivan, Soul Train, Saturday Night Live could be a breakthrough for an artist . . . is Idol more “artificial” in producing pop stars? Or just as/more effective, because it provides platform for undiscovered talents to shoot past label execs?

I didn’t ask a question, I arrived too late. But I’m confused about one thing; Questions were meant to be posted directly onto the live chat log weren’t they? And if so, I’m wondernig as to why people were posting questions to the thread?

As I am an Adam fan, but for sure never have been, nor ever will be a Glambert.

Or a Lambskank. Barf. Who in their right mind thinks that’s cute? Oh yeah, 14 year old girls.

Thanks MJ! Without computer temporarily, so couldn’t participate, but followed on my phone and LOVED IT!

It will be great to do this with some o’ the experts as the tour wraps, and come fall, albums start to drop. That will then segue into the new season. I’ve never been invested at the beginning, but am looking forward to Slezak and everyone else’s takes on the early rounds.

Should be good times.

was reading the live chat with Kendell, the country chick and it looks she has a big crush on glambie…

My friend Jim Cantiello would do it. And I’ll bet I could get slezak too.

Maybe Rickey or Dave

I arrived too late to ask a question, but that was great. I would LURVE one with Jim and Slezak! They are my top choices for next time (if I may put in a vote). Who’s Dave?

I haven’t had a chance to look at the chat, but it sounds like it was awesome and that this was a great idea! Thank you, MJ! And being able to chat with Cantiello and especially Slezak would be fantastic.

Oooooh, MJ! More chats would be awesome. I luv the coveritlive blog. :clap_tb:

And if so, I’m wondernig as to why people were posting questions to the thread?

I was just kidding about my question. So, sorry if I threw you guys off.

Who’s Dave?

I wanted wondering who he was also, but was too embarrassed to ask, thinking I should know who that is…. :blush_tb:

Who’s Dave?

VFTW guy, I think.

My friend Jim Cantiello would do it. And I’ll bet I could get slezak too.

this would be amazing!!!!! mj, you’re the best..maybe one day, hopefully in the near future, we’ll get the idols to come for the livechat too

VFTW guy, I think.

Oh God yes, I vote for him!

oh MJ…slezak and jim would be a dream team! make it happen

btw, i forgot that matt and sarver were both “worship” leaders ….. very interested to see what happens w. danny, matt and anoop re record deals…it might be a long time before we really find out (look what happened w. kim caldwell, signed years later).

oh my goodness..i am shocked at what Ju-not has to say:

Ju`Not: The producers know who they want and they slant it to reflect that. They fix it in a way that makes you surprised but it’s still manipulated.

Ju`Not: Think about it…ADAM, ADAM, ADAM then…Kris….SURPRISE SMITHCHES!!!!

I missed it — darned meetings! But it was a fun read afterwards — thanks for setting this up MJ!

My friend Jim Cantiello would do it. And I’ll bet I could get slezak too.

OMG yes!!! please try!

eta:

Ju`Not: The producers know who they want and they slant it to reflect that. They fix it in a way that makes you surprised but it’s still manipulated.

This Knoller is not surprised. Remember what Scott said about them all having roles?

Ju’Not has every right to be upset with what happened this year, he’s 100% correct. Just because we wound up with a great Top 5 in the end doesn’t negate the blatant manipulation that went on this season.

Ju`Not: As far as being a black man on the show…..I don’t really focus on that. They wanted too though. Even though I’m from the hood, they wanted me to put that out to the world and expose my personal business for ratings. I wouldn’t do it. Then they pulled me aside and told me I was a trouble maker for asking questions about the gazillion slavetracts we were signing.

we all knew about the TPTB’s role in manipulating the show but this looks as if the whole thing had been scripted from day 1? who knows…maybe even the contestants were actually picked by TPTB to audition and didn’t come to audition themselves….

Ju`Not: I debated on telling this but, the hell with it. They pay for our lawyers to negotiate against their lawyer (which is BS). They make us COLLECTIVELY choose the lawyer, then they act like it’s in our best interest. Craziest stuff i’ve ever seen. I have a son to feed. I HAD to ask questions and know what I was signing. Plus I write my own songs and I needed to know details.

Ju`Not: Yeah..we all had one lawyer and a few hours to go over the details of about 6 or 7 contracts, that we didn’t even get a copy of…and we didn’t get an opportunity to send to an outside attorney…and if we didn’t sign, we couldn’t be on the show.

whats a BS?

Very interesting so far w/Ju’Not:

2:11
Ju`Not: Welll…first of all, let me say that I’m grateful that I was on the show. Now that that’s out the way, I hated L.A. I met some cool folks but overall, it’s a fixed thing if I every saw one

2:12
Ju`Not: The producers know who they want and they slant it to reflect that. They fix it in a way that makes you surprised but it’s still manipulated.

2:12
Ju`Not: Think about it…ADAM, ADAM, ADAM then…Kris….SURPRISE SMITHCHES!!!!

2:13
Ju`Not: And now…you’ll tune in next year.

2:14
Ju`Not: What I mean is that people think AI is a talent show. No. It’s a reality show with writers!!

2:15
Ju`Not: We’re all actors. All these shows have writers that guide the public opinion. The Hills, Real World. All of them

2:15
Ju`Not: Judges comments are scripted (sorta). It’s a sitcom.

2:16
Ju`Not: I don’t know about those [votes? --M]. They sit us down and tell us it’s fair blah..blah…but who knows. Do you think a billion dollar enterprise is subject to the whim of the public?

2:18
Ju`Not: As far as Kris, he’s talented. He got what he deserved.

2:20
Ju`Not: As far as being a black man on the show…..I don’t really focus on that. They wanted too though. Even though I’m from the hood, they wanted me to put that out to the world and expose my personal business for ratings. I wouldn’t do it. Then they pulled me aside and told me I was a trouble maker for asking questions about the gazillion slavetracts we were signing.

2:23
Ju`Not: I debated on telling this but, the hell with it. They pay for our lawyers to negotiate against their lawyer (which is BS). They make us COLLECTIVELY choose the lawyer, then they act like it’s in our best interest. Craziest stuff i’ve ever seen. I have a son to feed. I HAD to ask questions and know what I was signing. Plus I write my own songs and I needed to know details.

2:24
Ju`Not: Some folks were like “just shutup and sign on the dotted line.” I know better than that. They wo

2:25
AI Now Admin Team: Can you elaborate on the meaning behind that last statement, many people are confused.

2:26
Ju`Not: Yeah..we all had one lawyer and a few hours to go over the details of about 6 or 7 contracts, that we didn’t even get a copy of…and we didn’t get an opportunity to send to an outside attorney…and if we didn’t sign, we couldn’t be on the show.

And Ju’Not goes on about how he thinks his asking questions about the contract caused some friction betw him and the producers…affecting his lifespan on the show.

I think it’s how a lot of us suspected — they manipulate everything they can to “guide” the vote. I’m of the camp that thinks they actually do abide by the vote total (after they’ve tried their darndest to influence the vote) but who knows?

Someone in a past season made a statement about their collectively choosing an attorney to represent the Idols’ interest. Having 19 pay for that attorney when that attorney is supposed to be looking out for them against possible shenanigans by 19 is pretty shady — but it’s the same situation as having 19 as your manager AND your record label. Who is going to speak up for an Idol if 19 is trying to screw them? Simon Fuller?? Hah.

Those questioners on that Q&A are silly and a waste of time. Too bad he didn’t come here. We would have asked some better ones, and held him accountable. Alot of what he is saying should be challenged.

Then they pulled me aside and told me I was a trouble maker for asking questions about the gazillion slavetracts we were signing.

LOL – this guy cracks me up!

whats a BS?

I think he means Bullshit. And, he’s right. This is why the contracts are never leaked. They have to sign them and then they’re never allowed to take their copy. And, they don’t get to pick their own lawyer. That definitely puts the contestants on the losing end of those negotiations.

i guess none of the contestants are complaining about the hidden contracts cos Idol is offering them “almost” a free ticket to recognition and singing on live tv which prior to their Idol journey, many of the contestants wouldn’t have even got an opportunity this big. look at Adam, he’s amazingly talented and he lives in LA and hasnt been picked up prior to Idol so obviously, despite the unfair contract negotiations, he would’ve agreed cos this is a pretty big opportunity to pass off..

and what ju-not says is right:

Ju`Not: Noone else is complaining because alot of the contestants don’t understand how this business works. They’ve never had record deals or seen a record contract…I have. So I knew what questions to ask. it’s kinda like ignorance is bliss. Some contestants may have thought it was just cool to be on TV, but this is my career. I take this thing “VERY” seriously.

This has been going on since season two at least. I remember Trenyce trying to bring in a lawyer. She and Ruben were telling the others not to be so eager to sign. She was then targeted with a mini scandal about some shoplifting…..she did however make it to the top 5. And she was a wild card pick as well…

Taylor also was a bit of trouble, asking too many questions….

This was the biggest ‘get’ to me:

I already got gang banged by Idol. Certain things are supposed to go through Idol’s PR department. Needless to say, I had opportunities to come up. I called them and tried to play by “their” rules…and I couldn’t even get a return call. Then I found out that other Idols were allowed to participate in activities that the expressly prohibited me from….and that’s not me being bitter…once again that’s da truth!

This is what he should really be pissed about! I believe this totally happened, and it sucks. I can’t wait to by his version of Hey There Delilah! I hope he will be okay, this is rather incindiary stuff, and he’s putting it out there.

mj
Jul 29th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
That was awesome guys!

I may set up chats with some other peeps.

My friend Jim Cantiello would do it. And I’ll bet I could get slezak too.

Maybe Rickey or Dave

Love Jim, Rickey and Slezak. I don’t know much about Dave, but that would give me a chance to learn.

Ju’Not is giving them some stuff, poor Nathaniel is in the wings having a bitchy fit I am sure. LOL!

It’s a friggin reality show. No question! And if the contestant doesn’t want to sign they can just walk away…no one is forcing them to stick around.

There have been pages of the contract leaked and it is pretty inclusive. But in defense of AI (I know they are indefensible) these kids are given one of the broadest platforms for getting themselves out there and they will never ever get the same opportunity again. And to allow any Hollywood contestant who gets air time and is not picked and then to go out immediately and negotiate a contract and “beat” the idol finalists to the recording studio would be grossly unfair. So they have to wait 6 months…that’s a minute in the grand scheme of things.

And yes the show is manipulated…by both the producers and the contestants: Normund, Tatiana, Danny, Lil, single Moms, guys living in cars, oil riggers, broadway understudies, vocal paralysis, blindness….the list is endless.

Mary I’m 12 and I think lambskanks are stupid. I am not an official glambert nut I call myself one. I think it has spread so I you’re and Adam fan you’re a glambert

Ju’Not is giving them some stuff, poor Nathaniel is in the wings having a bitchy fit I am sure. LOL!

when nathaniel gets on, i hope we get some more gossip from the Drama Queen.. LOL

I think the whole show is manipulated including the votes. I’m not starting a fanwar but think about how the media focused on the AI finale for WEeKS

Ju’Not isn’t saying anything that most people didn’t know. Everyone knows how horrible it is that 19 acts as these kids managers, there is a huge conflict of interest there, and the idols who sign aren’t stupid, they’ve probably looked at the situation and realized they’d rather split their profits with 19 than try to make it own their own. Nobody forced anyone to sign, and everyone knows that it’s a tv show, it’s more about making the contestants represent certain characters and telling a story, again, no one is forced to participate.

A better chat was with Brian and Richard, thanks MJ. I’m glad that they at least realize that it is a tv show, and that Kris allen had an interesting story that people got connected to, no it’s not all about the music, but people have to have an iteresting story in order to make people passionate enough about you to sit down and vote for four hours straight, or even for two hours once a week for ten or more weeks straight.

MJ:

Thanks so much for the chat with Brian and Richard — very fun.

Also, want to cast my vote for chats with Michael Slezak and Jim Cantiello — I love those guys!

Tess, my thoughts exactly!

Oh well, Nate decided we weren’t worth his time. Could have been epic.

This Ju’Not guy seems to be holding past grudges. And his comment about… “As far as Kris, he’s talented. He got what he deserved”. Ah, not! Kris is talented, no question about that. But, please, if you disliked or loved Adam, he was the only one who truly DESERVED the top prize. I agree with abbysee.

Great chat with Brian and Richard.

I would definitely follow a future chat with whoever you get.

I love how he said he googled his name and found “robbed.” Haha..

I think we all know how Idol works since it is a reality tv show, but I also think Junot is trying to milk this to bring more attention to himself.

Thanks, mj! I could only stay for part of the chat (yay, I got a question answered! ;-0), but it was great. I love Brian and Richard; they are both so articulate, and passionate about Idol, like we are. I hope I can stay for the chat next time, and yes on Jim and Slezak (LOL on both). I used to go for the chats with Richard, but they were more like, I love Adam, I love Kris, NO, Adam, NO, Kris. It wasn’t Richard’s fault–it was like a chat room–and I am kind of over those at this point. I tweet and I post here, and that’s enough.

As far as Ju’not, he is saying, Kris should have won? Um…okay, he did win. So that means Adam should NOT have won? WTF is that? And without being there, some of sounds like sour grapes to me, tho not the fact that they can’t negotiate contracts until after the Tour ends. But we already knew that. He still got exposure he wouldn’t have from being in Top 36. Look at the thousands of others who didn’t make it. And of course the show’s Top 36 and maybe Top 13 is calculated (tho not scripted, IMO). It’s about demographics, and it’s a bloody reality show, so, come on, already…

Thanks again!

I enjoyed the chat with Rushfield and Mansfield. Very articulate questions and answers. Shows once again what a great moderator MJ is, since the one with the various semi-finalists was basically a waste of time. Junot didn’t having any shocking revelations- everything he said has been said before. Sounds to me like his ego got bruised more than anything. I have a feeling that Adam, for example, knew more about the business side of things going into it than Junot. Yeah, Idol’s semi-scripted and unfair (anyone who listened to Paula read her comments all season could figure that out!). It’s also a huge chance at success, so everyone needs to choose whether the downsides are worth it to them.

A chat with Jim Cantiello and Slezak would be great. I also vote for chats with The Idol Guy and the team at What Not to Sing. They all have interesting, well-thought out ideas.

Bmms,uhm, Junot said Kris deserved it, and didnt said anything about Adam, not everyone thinks Adam deserved the top over Kris or vice versa .
I hope Junot will not get any trouble with this.

I think Ju’Not confirmed what a lot of people suspected and I salute him for having the stones to say it.

Ju’not is guilty of overthinking some things and failing to think at all about others, imo. Yes, true, if you have a clue, you WANT to be careful about the contract and you WANT to have independent objective input from your own attorney and you WANT to negotiate provisions favorable to your own interests.

To do that, though, you have to have a little thing called BARGAINING POWER or LEVERAGE. When standing in the proverbial line with thousands upon thousands of other talented, and largely interchangeable singers… That’s right, Ju’not, you got nothing with which to bargain for whatever rights you believe you should have. (I don’t care how talented, 19 will not see you (and the thousands like you) as indispensible. If they did, they’d sign you without the show.)

So, 19 holds all the cards, and the one thing (thousands of) you want — exposure and opportunity. The only question is, what are you, Ju’not (and the thousands just like you) willing to pay for that golden ticket? It’s not about fair. It’s not about “slavetracts.” It’s about buying yourself that opportunity, and is the price too high for you.

Ju’not decided that, for him in his circumstances, that he couldn’t/wouldn’t pay to play. To now cry foul, unfair, is childish, imo.

I’m not siding with 19, btw. I’m sure the manipulation and control is way OTT. I’m saying it is what it is. Ju’not wanted what 19 could give him but he was not willing to give 19 what they wanted from him. I say, good for you Ju’not for standing your ground and only doing what you could live with for yourself. But, bellyaching publicly now? Um, no. Sorry.

Great Q&A! I thoroughly enjoyed their comments and thoughts. I thought they were right on the money with respect to a lot of the answers – importance of song choice, etc.

I especially liked the reasons why Kris won section – my thoughts exactly. Just goes back to the underdog storyline – it’s much more enticing than going with the favorite.

I totally agree with bmms

Agree with CathyMK… about Adam maybe being more business savvy than Ju’Not. LOL!!!!… “Yeah, Idol’s semi-scripted and unfair (anyone who listened to Paula read her comments all season could figure that out!” I’m still laughing. :jittery_tb:

Thanks for this MJ. I wasn’t able to be there live but I appreciated being able to read the replay. I think Jim and Slezack and Dave would all be great. And another suggestion (if he’s even still writing about idol) would be Dave White!

I couldn’t be there live, but I enjoyed reading the transcript, MJ. Thanks so much for putting this together. I would love future chats with Slezak, Cantiello, and Rickey.

Others I’d be interested in hearing from are Melinda from TopIdol and the folks from What Not To Sing. I would have a gazillion questions for the WNTS folks.

I actually appreciated what Ju’Not had to say in his chat. Yes, he is clearly bitter, but I really can’t blame him. I know people say, “Well, he had a choice to go on the show; if he didn’t like the contract, he could have just said no.” But, it really is not that simple, in my opinion. In the end, he signed. He acknowledged in the chat that, in the end, it was good for his career because he did get exposure. But, honestly, that does not excuse TPTB for the crappy way they treat the contestants. They know that these young people are desperate for exposure, and so they take advantage of that to maximum effect.

Honestly, I think if things did go down as Ju’Not said, that a good lawyer would be able to get them out of those contracts (and I’m a lawyer, although not an entertainment one, so I’m making an educated guess, but not offering an expert opinion). When you refuse to allow someone the opportunity to have an outside lawyer not paid for by you to review a contract, it is pretty hard to say that the contract was entered into freely and knowingly.

Anyway, it was all very interesting to me. I know people here say that Ju’Not hasn’t told us stuff that everyone didn’t already know, but, I did not know about a lot of the stuff he talked about. And I absolutely BELIEVE that he was not given a slot in the wild card round because he was viewed as a troublemaker.

I felt that the Top 36 elimination format this past season was grossly unfair, favoring contestants who had been featured prominently by the producers during auditions and Hollywood week.

I agree they should get rid of the top 36 format. The worst part about it is that it doesn’t allow you to get to know any of the contestants early on. I am very rarely impressed with anyone early on, and have to get to know them after at least a few weeks to tell who I want to root for. This year’s format favored only picking the best, or most identifiable, with no room for others to grow on you.

Based on this format, someone could be a mediocre talent who got lucky with one great song or a moving backstory and got through, or they could be hugely talented, yet have one awkward performance and not make it through.

Agree with CathyMK’ ¦ about Adam maybe being more business savvy than Ju’Not. LOL!!!!’ ¦

I don’t know about that. He did have that other record company release some of his pre-Idol music, presumably without his knowledge or permission.

I agree that nobody is forcing these kids to sign contracts or appear on Idol…but its still very unethical to treat those with honest concerns and questions as villains. the manipulations behind the scenes comes as no surprise to many of us….all reality shows are guilty of the same thing. I know a cpl of folks involved w. the bachelor…including a former “winner” who admits to being harassed, pressured, and threatened when he wanted to leave the show midway. So when Ju’not expresses anger and disappointment towards the show, I can only imagine what other BS Ken/19/Fox is responsible for.

MJ, invite him during your next chat’ ¦.could be very interesting.

Great Q&A with Brian and Richard, I’m on the same page with them with many things on Idol…Thank you so much MJ, you were a great moderator…

And a big Yes to a Q&A with Slezak and Cantiello next!

I think first and foremost, AI is a reality tv show. That’s their objective – producing a show that garners ratings and ad revenue. Every once in a while, they stumble upon a viable recording artist. But, when considering all of the past seasons’ finalists, those are pretty few and far between. For the bulk of the people on this show, I don’t think it offers them any more of a viable career than the average Real Worlder.

Nothing about the show is fair obviously. It doesn’t even begin from a point of fairness. The manipulation is how they tell the story they intend to tell. Expecting any fairness in the AI process is a pipe dream.

What I find funny about the contract signing circumstances, is that I cannot think of any other industry where such a contract would even be binding. Clearly, they’re signing these things under duress. Quite often, you see pre-nups thrown out in court proceedings because one party didn’t have their own representation, or it was sprung on them the night before the wedding.

I’d love to see the Lolz associated with watching someone challenge that thing in court.

And to allow any Hollywood contestant who gets air time and is not picked and then to go out immediately and negotiate a contract and ‘beat’  the idol finalists to the recording studio would be grossly unfair.

So right, Tess.

To allow any detail of one’s multi-zillion dollar enterprise to have the slightest possibility of getting away would be insanity. Of course, the contracts are iron-clad, bullet-proof, choking, fenced-in and reprehensible. Its show biz. Those are the only kind of contracts good lawyers would write. And producers who didn’t ask for that kind of protection wouldn’t last 8 seasons of Number 1 on American TV. And if they didn’t “cast” the top 36, when trying to decide between two equally deserving contestants, they would also have been looking for other, non entertainment, lines of work after failed Season 1 or 2.

And, of course, TPTB, are indefensible. But look how well they’ve treated Kris and Adam record wise. (We don’t know about Allison, yet). Not just no indentured servant feel, but lavish, respectful, you-want-it-you-got-it, honored artist treatment. At least 19 has learned.

We live in a democracy. Show Biz is not a democracy. American Idol is not a democracy. But here’s how consumers in a democracy “vote” every day – with their wallets. These singers either sell records or they don’t.

Absolutely guaranteed the votes are real. Just like all advertising sweepstakes are real. TV found out decades ago that to lie on that level is to invite failure. And prison terms. The realness of the votes is why they have to work so hard to control everything else.

Oh, and, love the chat/interview innovation. Cantiello, great. And: Slezak!! As often as possible.

Nothing about the show is fair obviously. It doesn’t even begin from a point of fairness. The manipulation is how they tell the story they intend to tell. Expecting any fairness in the AI process is a pipe dream.

Agreed. My problem with Season 8 is that it just got even more unfair and manipulative than it had been previously, and that’s saying quite a bit since the bar was already set so high (or low).

moved

Thank you so much for this chat with Brian and Richard, MJ! It was amazing. Also, you were an awesome moderator and the questions were brilliant (I suppose I’m a little biased). Specifically, thanks for letting my followup question to Brian Mansfield through. I think I could have had an hour long discussion with him on his view of the semifinals format and the American Idol demographic, very interesting stuff.

I would be absolutely thrilled if you could wrangle Slezak and Cantiello in here. They’re both hilarious and their Idol snark knows no bound(aries).

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!

What I find funny about the contract signing circumstances, is that I cannot think of any other industry where such a contract would even be binding. Clearly, they’re signing these things under duress.

Normally, and legally, I would agree with you. But, practically speaking, 19 faces no real danger of losing any contract contest given the circumstances and timing. First, the contestants would be hard pressed to argue that they did not get what they bargained for (an opportunity for exposure) or that the deal was in any way unfair to them. This is true, in large part, because they 1) lose no rights if 19 passes on entering a recording contract, and that being the case, 2) whatever limitations they face are of very short duration. Even though this all smells bad to your average joe, the contestants would not even win a battle of the equities, imo. Exposure before tens of millions of viewers, with no monetary expense to them? Whatever “lost opportunity” they face in the interim can’t possibly equate to, much less surpass the value of that potential exposure. (Not to mention, more likely than not, that “opportunity” only came along because of the AI exposure!)

Those who are not passed over by 19 actually are in a better position for a contest if the show contract seeks to broadly limit their rights going forward. I understand that additional negotiations occur at the point of winning/signing, probably in order to negate any “coercion” claim. But, even then, the contestant winners are hard pressed to argue that they did not get what they bargained for. Essentially, the exposure is priceless.

ETA: “The realness of the votes is why they have to work so hard to control everything else.”

Indeed!

And to allow any Hollywood contestant who gets air time and is not picked and then to go out immediately and negotiate a contract and ‘beat’  the idol finalists to the recording studio would be grossly unfair.

Oh, I definitely don’t object to that, nor do I find the other terms that we’ve heard about objectionable either. It’s only the conditions under which they sign these contracts that I find sort of well, “interesting”. (Providing of course, that it’s even true).

And, I ADORE Slezak. He can come visit us anytime!

Absolutely guaranteed the votes are real. Just like all advertising sweepstakes are real. TV found out decades ago that to lie on that level is to invite failure. And prison terms. The realness of the votes is why they have to work so hard to control everything else.

I absolutely agree.

Ugh, I’m so naive – and yet I know so much of it is manipulated. I personally know several people who either work (like 14th asst. producer and such, meaning in charge of hotel accommodations!) or have been contestants on other reality shows, and everything is scripted … what they say, who they pick, their clothes, their stories, how they “improve.” I don’t watch any reality tv except AI … and I never thought too much about the process. But then I’m a sucker for Marillyn Monroe or Betty Grable or whoever it was being discovered at the drugstore counter … and Ashton (ugh) being plucked out of a pizza join in Iowa, etc. It’s a big, cruel world …

Enjoyed the online chat; very good questions; love Slezak so would enjoy that.
The guys are in the business and they’re pretty savvy on the realities of the show. I guess that’s why I didn’t like RRs “AI gets it heart back” whatever storyline after the finale – they know what’s good for the show and I think about it coming from my own little naivete.

Oh well … now on to the next concert – always interesting!

Oops, just remembered I do watch DWTS also – kind of different though in that the voting isn’t about a dance contract … all about self-promotion, though, but so much fun!

What I find funny about the contract signing circumstances, is that I cannot think of any other industry where such a contract would even be binding. Clearly, they’re signing these things under duress.

The contract thing has always fascinated me, ’cause when you think about it, the situation’s got a built-in booby trap thingy.

If you don’t go far in the show, you have no leverage.

If you do even half-ways decently–top 8 and up–here’s your problem. While people focus on the big prize, winning, a huge portion of the value of the Idol opportunity is 19Entertainment’s power of supporting the music you put out afterwards.

If you stay in their good graces, you get a huge recurring platform on which to promote your future work. They can’t raise you from total lack of success, but if your album is doing well and you’re getting radio play, an appearance on a later season of AI can sell tens of thousands of extra copies of your music. Plus another chance for a bump from So You Think You Can Dance. Or having your song licensed and used as the play-off song, or in the Hollywood Ep, and so on.

Even the small fish benefit from a lot of smaller favors 19E can help you to–gigs at Disneyworld, TV Guide, Idol package shows and so on.

The top two are in the biggest dilemma of all: being winner or runner-up generally gets you almost a year’s worth bonanza of major television and magazine appearances, the morning and late night shows, sometimes and extra big treat like a Saturday Night Live spot or Rolling Stone cover. Challenging your Idol contract in court would mean potentially closing yourself off from that exposure, so no one really wants to yank on that wire and find out.

Now 19E probably doesn’t want to test the booby trap either. If a really, really popular performer (currently popular, not someone who’s stock has already declined) lawyered up and fought them, they’d be in an uncomfortable place if they stopped having them on the show altogether, or tried to hardball major media into not featuring them. That’s potential lost rating and ad dollars. How tough would they hang? So far, no one wants to be the test case.

Good chat with Rushfield and Mansfield, and my votes are also for Cantiello and Slezak for the next chat.

And I continue to disagree with 90% of Rushfield’s article about ‘giving AI back it’s heart,’ but I don’t disagree that as he said in that article and again in today’s chat, that Kris’s story is more typical for the AI audience and that the underdog part of that story, sells well and helped him win. I just think that his other stuff about Adam being, as he said in this chat, too “cool,”and in his article, coming from a city and LA of all places, is anything other than being a harder sell for the AI audience. Not that it meant that Kris’s story had any more real value or heart to it. What would give the show it’s heart to me, would be the idea that coming from one of them thar big timey, elitist coastal cities, isn’t such a bad thing. That we can be humble too, ya know. And Adam showed that on the show, even if his calm was too “cool.” It’s not like Adam didn’t work his heart out just as much as Kris ever did. Or that Adam’s story was any less than ‘rags to riches.’

Well, Truthiness, you know I agree with you 100% on the ‘heart of AI’ article … would have to copy the whole thing! Thanks!!
That RR finale article is not complimentary when put in the light of the business angle of the show that has been talked about on this thread. It just makes it trite.

It’s not like Adam didn’t work his heart out just as much as Kris ever did. Or that Adam’s story was any less than ‘rags to riches.’

of course not….these guys, all of them, are pretty much a rags to riches story (even, danny who drove a truck for a living). however, adam was on a widely successfull show (Wicked) and got to meet/ receive career advice from Madonna (introduced through a mutual friend)….while Kris was making an album w. his school buddies and playing in clubs in Conway AR…Conway population = one LA city block LOL so maybe its best to say Kris was just rag(ier) than adam…or his rag was bigger? uhh, not sure how that reads

Saying Kris deserved to win does not automatically imply that Adam is undeserving. People do not always make remarks about other idols with Adam in mind. (Actually I read the “got what he deserved” as possibly ominous…so there’s my fan paranoia right there, lol)

And, of course, TPTB, are indefensible. But look how well they’ve treated Kris and Adam record wise. (We don’t know about Allison, yet). Not just no indentured servant feel, but lavish, respectful, you-want-it-you-got-it, honored artist treatment. At least 19 has learned.

Based on what tho? the info leaked by 19 and associated business partners? or their newly minted, totally dependent recording artists?

Absolutely guaranteed the votes are real. Just like all advertising sweepstakes are real. TV found out decades ago that to lie on that level is to invite failure. And prison terms. The realness of the votes is why they have to work so hard to control everything else.

Yes. Although I wonder if 19 actually got their desired outcome in the end this time (doesn’t matter when they can really do whatever they like now that the season’s over)

Truthiness:

It’s not like Adam didn’t work his heart out just as much as Kris ever did. Or that Adam’s story was any less than ‘rags to riches.’

Right on and then some.

While there is no such thing as comparative pain, as everyone’s emotional reaction is just whatever it is to a situation, having lived in both the South and Santa Monica, I’m going to risk saying Adam had it “raggier”. Maybe not in a TV script way. But in real reality.

For the past 5 years, Kris has been a very young guy, clearly quite smart, but not so sure about school, and, like a lot of young people, figuring out how to proceed in life. And while doing that, he lived in his hometown, surrounded by his wonderful family, and kind, nice people, including his childhood sweetheart, whom he married.

Adam, who started his adulthood earlier, spent the past nine years having both his heart and bank account broke and banging his immense talent against the insane, soul-killing, moral blankness that is show biz. It’s a miracle he survived with so much charm and politeness intact. And didn’t become a drug addict, someone’s cute young thing, or both. Having his loving family not too far away had to have helped. As did the great emotional support they showered throughout his early life. But if he hadn’t gotten the Wicked job, he might have decided fashion was his calling.

Talent is low on the list of reasons people get ahead in Hollywood. Hard work, though required, doesn’t necessarily help either. We’re all lucky he was trained so well, so young, so he didn’t seriously compromise his voice or his craft. And that he had that Idol epiphany in the desert. Because this allowed his talent to go almost unfiltered to the public. And allowed the industry to see him as enough of a “proven” commodity, that they could support that kind of talent. Sexy and fascinating he may be, but the core of Adam Lambert’s appeal is his voice.

And next season, if amazingly, 6 more people with that kind of voice show up, they’re more likely to get “put through” to the 36. Because America has shown they want it. In fact, as demonstrated by Kris’s great skills, and, as mentioned in the nice live chat, the level of others in the Top 10, they now expect it. And the show can get “rigged” with big talent.

Nothing Junot said is surprising to me. In fact, I would say its common sense. lol Kelly is the only winner who has sort of “stood up” to the AI machine. I think its the reason the ratings have dropped. People are finally waking up to the fact that its a fixed show.

FifthHouseSun: Beautifully stated!

Ju’Nut he is going to marry a lawyer.Well she must not be a good lawyer to let him go off like this.You cant get any better break then a chance on AI.You sell your life for 1 year for it.What gives anyone of 100,000 that try out the right to think they should get a better deal?He gets his own lawyer to say what?Won’t sign unless you let us put out a album right after he is cut.He was well liked but now if he puts a hit out will he be on AI singing it.I think not.You can’t buy a better spot to sell your music right now.Being bitter i understand.Being stupit i dont understand.”Slavetract” How much work for them has he done since he got voted off.Sounds like he has been working for himself.He paid the price now he is done with that next month.If he didnt pay that price i wouldnt be writing this,he got what he paid for.

Ju’Not also says the show wanted to talk about his personal business and background living in the hood for ratings, which he refused to do.

Dont understand why he didn’t want that on the show.I do understand why david cook or scott from this season didn’t want some of the stuff out.How you grew up is part of who you are.

of course not’ ¦.these guys, all of them, are pretty much a rags to riches story (even, danny who drove a truck for a living). however, adam was on a widely successfull show (Wicked) and got to meet/ receive career advice from Madonna (introduced through a mutual friend)

Adam was a chorus boy in Wicked and understudy for the lead. And I believe only got to meet and get advice from Madonna, after the show ended. Monte didn’t pass along Adam’s fanboy messages to Madonna before then. And here is my point which I think Rushfield seemed to miss, yes, Adam was in LA and by it’s very nature, one has a chance to see other famous people and talk to them. But he despite all of his hard work and being in the center of the entertainment industry, wasn’t “getting discovered.” Which isn’t to say he wasn’t talented. Just that it’s a hard business period and actually being in LA means there are TONS more people competing with you. Adam was living in crappy apartments, doing retail jobs at times, having to have money sent by his parents to get food/pay rent. It’s no less rags to richier than Kris’s. Just because Kris came from some small town, doesn’t make his climb any more, or less, steep and harder than Adam’s. Just different. And Kris wasn’t just some naif. Just like Carrie Underwood actually wasn’t before him (who Rushfield also cites in his article). Kris recorded several tracks, he was performing rock gigs. And Adam with his stage experience, actually had a strike against him because of it. Certainly with people like Simon and TPTB in the past, it has been. And Adam himself said, he had habits to unlearn from his stage work. Whereas Kris didn’t have do unlearn that at least, with his experience.

Adam’s experience of being in a big city and struggling to get noticed, pay the rent, is no less or more to the heart of America, and the intent of AI, than Kris’s story is. Other than that Kris came from some small town in the South, and Adam was struggling in a big city, which yes, happens to be the entertainment center of the world. So gee, the show, once again, gave the title to some small town Southern person. Yawn. That doesn’t mean the show has more heart to me. That just tells me the show is doing the same old, same old. I personally would have been much more heartened to finally see some coastal and/or Northern, big city person who had a different kind of experience, win. Rather than yet another people like last year’s winner of Cook and this year’s winner of Kris were with their similiar rock band, small Southern town, experiences/life.

Again, one of the only parts of the Rushfield’s chat today about this, and point of his article that I agreed with, is that the show, though not in the rest of reality, made Kris an underdog and that is a very appealing story. But outside of the show, Kris is not an underdog compared to Adam. So another point I agree with from today’s chat (and overall), is that the show needs to tamp down it’s pimping/dismantle that ramp, or the shark, she shall be jumped. Because newsflash, 18-49 hetro white Christian males are not the underdogs. Or as my friend likes to quote from the Simpsons, “I’m a white male between 18-49, everybody cares what I think!”

Please don’t rehash past history in this thread.

Once this thread strays off the topic and enters fanwar territory, I will shut off comments.

Thank you Truthiness and Fifth House Sun! I always wondered how Adam was not considered an underdog story from the get-go. An openly gay, jewish musical theater singer (a genre and type of contestant openly mocked and dismissed by the judging panel and producers in the past, especially Simon and Nigel) getting on the show was a surprise to me. I, too, would have liked to see another type of winner’s story this year. I’m perfectly happy with Kris’s win, not only because I think that Kris is definitely talented, but because I think the show gave Adam what he needed in order to get any type of contract or music industry notice…a following. As talented as I think Adam is, I think he needed AI much more than people think he did. I don’t think he would have ever gotten “discovered” because his open sexual orientation would be too risky for some music industry suits to take a chance on.

Maybe next season we’ll get a different kind of story, but I doubt it. As the reviewer said after the Memphis (?) show, there’s a certain “true American Idol demographic” and I think winners will more than likely fit that niche than anything else.

Maybe next season we’ll get a different kind of story, but I doubt it. As the reviewer said after the Memphis (?) show, there’s a certain ‘true American Idol demographic’  and I think winners will more than likely fit that niche than anything else.

Well keeping it to the chat here, and the only reason I referenced Rushfield’s article at all, is that it was specifically mentioned in the chat today by someone and he commented on it, but personally, I don’t think anything will change. I mean, I hope it will. As Brian Mansfield said, and I think he’s right, they are building a ramp to jump over the shark with all their bullshyte pimping. I personally think they only managed to avoid that this season with all the focus on the judges and ALL the crap that was going on, by somehow managing to find some really appealing people (especially Kradison) in the process. If they continue the fuckery they did this year (and yeah, getting rid of Paula and keeping Kara of all people while doing so) they better REALLY be lucky with their talent or suit up Fonzie.

This is a very interesting Q&A . Just two comments:
a.Regarding no one crying over eliminations : I think R.Rushfield missed the picture of Allison’s elimination. The broken hearted Adam and the very sad face of Kris. The photo is posted everywhere, I think even headlined here in MJ’s. This was the picture that my brother a retired military officer who just watched Season 8 because his daughter commandeered the remote said that – this Adam is not only glitter and glam but he sure does have heart.

b. I agree on their concern about the contracts going high with the ratings dipping : Seems to remind me of the trouble in US Baseball when the player’s contract got to be astronomical that the league could not afford the salaries . In this case , we are even talking about the Judges and the host and the management – not even remuneration for the contestants or players -. I do not think the viewers were ever cheering on the judges. A big overhead cost to hurdle for the show.

As talented as I think Adam is, I think he needed AI much more than people think he did. I don’t think he would have ever gotten ‘discovered’  because his open sexual orientation would be too risky for some music industry suits to take a chance on.

I agree. And, I also believe he needed the pimping, even with his immense talent and superb performances. As Adam said himself, that allowed some people (who may have been hesitant) to support him and feel it was ok to do so.

I didn’t agree with Rushfield’s “heart” analysis either, nor that Adam seemed too “cool” so not the right “AI story.” But I don’t disagree that quite a few people (in the AI voting demographic) likely viewed it that way.

Maybe OT, but I miss Ken Barnes and his comprehensive numbers reporting. Brian disappoints in that department.

I feel so cheated. LOL. I have been a regular here forever, checking in almost every day. But of course, the week I take off all the good stuff happens. Boo. HA!

Great chat. Looks like it was a lot of fun.

Looks like it was a fun and interesting chat and MJ was great at moderating it. Interesting comments and personal perspective. Some things I totally don’t agree with, but others I do.

I missed it. I did see the notice when it was already in progress but I was also doing other things. I’d love to see a chat with Slezak and Cantiello. I’m sure it will be fun and entertaining.

I just got done reading the other chat log with Ju`not, FELICIA BARTON, and Kendall Beard. What a treat. The juxtaposition of the 3 of them is quite interesting. The girls know how to play the game and are much more mature.

Absolutely thrilled that Felicia is recording and opened for David Cook on a VA show. Just got done watching a youtube from there and she looks and sounds great. It sounds like she has a contract in the works on some level and we’ll be able to get her music when she’s released from the AI contract next month. She’s been writing and recording in Nashville.

One thing on Ju`not that I know is truthful is the contract situation. A friend’s son made it to Hollywood week in season 5 and she was furious that he signed the contract without legal advice or even a copy of it. He never got any face time, but he couldn’t even sing in church for a year …. and I mean sitting in a pew singing, not a member of the choir.

Forget Ju`not getting robbed, I think Felicia did. But her husband’s internet blogs may have targeted her for elimination. Hard to guess.