Penn Jillette Takes A Massive Swipe at Clay Aiken and Celebrity Apprentice

A few lulz for your Sunday morning. Penn Jillette starred along side American Idol alum, Clay Aiken, on Donald Trump’s NBC reality show, Celebrity Apprentice last year.

Anybody who watched the show noticed the two did not get along exactly. Penn was ditched fairly early on in the competition, while Clay eventually was runner-up to winner, Arsenio Hall.

In an excerpt from his new book titled Every Day is an Atheist Holiday, not only does Penn rip Donald Trump a new one, but he takes a GIANT swipe at Clay Aiken. Read the except below, but I also highly reccomment that you read the entire article at Salon.com. It is both a hilarious and fascinating behind the scenes look at reality television. Not excerpted here: Penn calls Clay “Bitchy”.

One day while shooting, I’d had a heart-to-heart talk with Clay Aiken. I would have preferred waterboarding. I don’t like heart-to-heart talks with anyone, but Clay Aiken? Strap me to the board, and put the wet towels over my face. Drowning sounds nice. Clay had put his arm on my shoulder, looked in my eyes and said softly something like, “You know, Penn, I really like you, I do. I think you’re really smart, but I have to talk to you about some things that are bothering me.” Clay told me, gently and kindly, that I was being condescending by talking over people’s heads. He was accusing me of being condescending and he was being … condescending. When someone is busting you for being condescending, it takes a bigger asshole than me to say, “Are you sure you know what ‘condescending’ means? It means to talk down to, not talk over someone’s head. So, you see, honey, I’m not condescending, I’m pompous, let me explain …”

So, I nodded, yeah, I’m condescending. Greed and clawing for fame got me to the point where I was pretending to care what Clay Aiken thought of me. What have I done? What have I done?

Clay spent over an hour and a half of his time, and wasted much more than that of mine, having a heart-to-heart with me over how he, Clay Aiken, thought I should treat Lou Ferrigno. He wasn’t talking about how Clay Aiken thought I should treat Clay Aiken, about which I would have had to work hard to give a flying fuck. Clay was talking to me about how he, Clay Aiken, thought I should treat the guy who played a cartoon character painted green, decades ago.

If you’ve gotten yourself into a situation when Clay Aiken is going to talk about his feelings with you, it’s time to kill yourself. If it weren’t being documented, you could kill him quickly and bury him in a shallow grave—who’s going to notice? You could go on living your happy normal life, but if there are TV cameras pointed at you while Clay is pretending to soul search, and your wife is going to find out and some of your friends from the carny might watch the show in a bar somewhere, well … you should kill yourself.

Clay explained how I should deal with Ferrigno. Clay said that he knew how to deal with Lou because Clay himself had worked for years with intellectually disabled students before he discovered himself on “American Idol.” He thought I should deal with this grown man—who was our peer, who had punched me in friendship—as if I was dealing with an intellectually disabled child, so … get this … so I wouldn’t come off as condescending in front of the non-groovy, but very bitchy Clay.

I should have jumped. At least some of you might have respected that. No one respects me talking to Clay Aiken about feelings. Not even Clay. He was just doing it to win a TV game so he wouldn’t have to go back to condescending to mentally disabled children for a career.

What happened? Did I forget how to say “Shut the fuck up?” Or, “I’m sorry, I think I left the bathwater running in Las Vegas, and you know it’s the desert, there’s a water shortage.” Or, “I’m sorry, I don’t speak English. I learned our Vegas shows phonetically.” Or, “Hey, Clay, there are more TV cameras on the other side of the room. Why don’t you have a heart-to-heart with Arsenio Hall? That might get you more close-ups.”

  • Valarie

    Maybe it’s just me, but Penn came off as an even bigger hole than I had always perceived him to be. I didn’t think that was possible.

  • workdog

    Penn is an ass; he might be a talented ass…but he’s still a massive one anyway. Aiken might not be universally liked but to characterize him as condescending to disabled children for a career when there’s ample evidence his support and activism on the part of those affected by varying conditions is easy to find is just beyond the pale, imo. I think Penn is just not prepared to have someone actually discuss with him something perhaps he already knows but didn’t want to acknowledge, given Penn’s self vaunted intellectual level and smirky outlook on what HE thinks others motives might be, and his disdain, well documented, for those he thinks are bleeding hearts, fake or not. I know that Penn has done work for charities, etc., so he has a heart in there somewhere, but it’s interesting he’s so very, very willing to essentially dress someone down in regards to their work advocating just because he got called on the carpet. Take your medicine, deserved or not, like a grownup, Penn, even if you feel it unwarranted, state your case without throwing around playground petulance, and you come out looking much, much better. This? Not so much.

    JMHO

  • Montavilla

    Well, Penn Jillette may regret doing Celebrity Apprentice, but I appreciate him doing it — just because we get articles like that from it.  I love hearing the backstage stuff.  

    That bit about ego depletion makes a lot of sense.  Everyone talks about the stress of doing reality TV, but I never thought about it being from the stress of being on camera for so many hours.  I guess I thought that people who are already celebrities would take that in stride.  

    But if you think about in practical terms — how stressful would it be to never get a moment to pick your nose, or fart, or do all those little things we do when people aren’t around.  If I were on the show, I’d probably spend half my time in the bathroom just to get away from the cameras!  (And on Project Runway, they just follow you into the stall.)

  • potatorocks

    The entire article is interesting.   It is not enlightening–desperate celebrities, desperate Donald–doing what they must for camera time.   He is blunt in the way he tells it but it is more interesting without the sugar. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.dangio.71 Robert D’Angio

    I have such mixed feelings about this article and in the end it made me think, what in the world was Penn trying to accomplish by releasing this to the public? I think in the grand scheme it could be for entertainment, but in my opinion, performers don’t put themselves out there just to entertain, there are always other motives as to why someone does something publicly. I also questioned why he decided to single out Clay the way he did. There was just a lot wrong with the way he wrote this article. For instance, he talks about ego depletion as an excuse to why Arsenio Hall and the others had outbursts on TV but then he throws Clay under the bus claiming he was doing it all for TV. Now, given, if Clay said what he did say, it was in poor taste to compare treating Lou Ferrigno to the way Clay would treat his previous students, but at the same time, why is Penn going out of his way to make Clay look like a bad person? For me, in the same way he uses this excuse about ego depletion to help make Arsenio look better for a bad moment on camera, he is trying to make Clay look worse for his own bruised ego. It shows in the way you can tell he feels about himself. He lost a fake game with fake business where he gets fake fired. That’s all it is, he couldn’t win the game that he signed up for and got beaten by people who he feels are intellectually beneath him. So what does he do, he plays it off to make it seem like he lost because of reasons uncontrollable to himself instead of his own actions and  ideas, because much like he couldn’t handle being told by someone that he can be condescending, he can’t handle the fact that he lost to people inferior to himself. This whole article is set up that way. He pats his friends on the back (despite the fact that I am sure all the contestants said and did things that were a little less than graceful) and brings them back up while he repairs his own ego by bringing down those who he feels bruised it (Clay, for calling him out on his condescending and Trump for firing him over people who weren’t as qualified to play the fake game as he clearly is). In the end, this article is just a mask to repair poor Penn’s ego. He has now partaken in two reality TV shows (despite how he clearly sees them as beneath him) and he has lost on both of them. Notice how he took the time to bash both shows but never seemed to be at least grateful for the opportunity to play the fake game (for real prizes and real fame by the way). I just find it incredibly hypocritical to listen to someone rant and complain about others when they obviously knew what they were getting themselves into and chose to do it anyway. You walk on fire and then be mad when it burns you. I love how he claims he knows he is greedy, clawing for fame, and an ass but makes the point to show you that the people who brought him down on the show are worse. Like when claims that Clay doesn’t seem to know what condescending means or when he talks about how Trump couldn’t even afford to hire Penn and Teller at one point. This whole article is just a front to help his bruised ego. And he plays a very clever way to make it seem like it was because he was in a daze or suffering from some sort of temporary lack of judgement. In reality he is pissed because he tried to play the game and keep control of his tongue so the public would like him but in the end he didn’t even win and the people who did the opposite survived. At least that is the way I see it. Hopefully this all makes sense and if I totally misinterpreted what he said, sorry in advance for a long rant.

  • bscfan

    Celebrity Apprentice All Stars is now being filmed.

    I work in midtown Manhattan. A few weeks ago I walked past two big promotional displays set up on opposite sides of the street, for two different hair products. There were crowds and TV cameras, and sign warning, “if you walk through here you are giving permission to be on TV.”  They didn’t say which TV show, but I thought “They’re filming Celebrity Apprentice.”

    And there in the middle of it all, standing stock still and staring into space, was Penn Jillette.

    He is going to be on Celebrity Apprentice AGAIN?  After his description of all the misery (see the full article). WHY???

    I guess he’d already been fired by the time he let this article come out.

  • ellen8

    I watched that season in amazement at the way the men treated each other.  Clay tried, to his credit, to mediate but too many egos got in the way.  In the end, the biggest ass of them all was Arsenio so it was no surprise that the poster boy for A*holes hired Arsenio over Clay.  Clay imo deserved the win over Arsenio but I knew the Donald would never hire the gentle gay boy !!!

    Penn’s article reeks of homophobia which I am sure he would deny !!!   Penn treated Lou like a rag he could mop the floor with.  I couldn’t blame Clay for finally speaking up – someone needed to.   

  • ellen8

    I watched that season in amazement at the way the men treated each other.  Clay tried, to his credit, to mediate but too many egos got in the way.  In the end, the biggest ass of them all was Arsenio so it was no surprise that the poster boy for A*holes hired Arsenio over Clay.  Clay imo deserved the win over Arsenio but I knew the Donald would never hire the gentle gay boy !!!

    Penn’s article reeks of homophobia which I am sure he would deny !!!   Penn treated Lou like a rag he could mop the floor with.  I couldn’t blame Clay for finally speaking up – someone needed to.   

  • Larc

    So Clay is bitchy.  What else is new?

  • roarpen

    I did not watch the show because Trump nauseates me, but LMAO at this article!

  • http://twitter.com/1outside Maj

    This is hilarious when you take to account Penn went on CA All Stars. What an ass.

    As for Clay, yeah, he’s bitchy but there’s nothing in the article that would convince me he is “worse” than Penn himself. 

  • bscfan

    In the article Penn tries to make himself not look like a jerk by denigrating himself almost as much as he denigrates everyone else, but I’m not sure it works. Nonetheless, the article is a blast–especially the description of Trump pontificating for hours in response to the taunts of minor bloggers.

    I am still having trouble understanding why all these “desperate celebrities”  think being on this show will help their careers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jnoodles Jonathan Frahm

    Penn is an idiot.

    ‘Nuff said.

  • http://twitter.com/Miztig Miz

    Seems a lot here were offended by what Penn wrote in his book about his time on CA. I found it hilarious. So many great one liners. I especially liked Scrooge McDuck’s cotton candy piss hair.

  • Allison

    Who cares what Penn thinks! I couldn’t read through 1/4 of the excerpt above, let alone the entire article.Celebrity Apprentice has been over for half a year. To be still irked that Clay outlasted him? Get over it!

  • Valarie

    All bullies are cowards, but Penn takes it to new hieghts. He didn’t have the courage to tell Clay to mind his own business, face to face. He bullies from the safe distance of print.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    Sorry folks, I love Penn and thought, that the article was really a gem: thank you for putting it here! But everybody who does not hate him should just read the whole article, because the text has a certain structure, that suffers from cutting.

    About those events: From what we could see, I think it was right reaction from Clay to interrupt Penn’s talking over, if it irritated him and some other people. But I never did feel that Penn was condescending. He told later, that he has got used in that kind of creative group work, where the ideas, that people throw in the air are challenged etc etc, so he just did not recognized at first that CA kind of group work would be different.
    I like Clay, but I also feel, that he was the one, who was condescending.
    And what comes to Lou, he actually hit Penn there.

    I liked every sentence of the article, but I might have left the end of the sentence away, where he refers to Clays working with disabled children, the article could have lived easily without that, because somebody might think, that Penn does not value charity work (when he got fired, somebody made a huge donation to his charity work).

    Nobody is flawless, and my disappointment with Penn is, that it seems, that he seemed to be totally non-reactive in the shows not really saying against to anything, where as when Clay came to talk, I think it would have been valuable to react then, not only now afterwards. And if somebody approaches me wanting to have “heart-to-heart” talk, so even if the person would feel fraud to me, I think there is always then a possibility to real mutual understanding…??? or not. “Reality tv” can be impossible forum to be real.

    And I loved his slogan “You earned it”.

  • http://twitter.com/oohlaluxe kim

    Lol. Typical bitter white atheist. And homophobic to boot.  I’m surprised he and Donald dont get along better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

     “why is Penn going out of his way to make Clay look like a bad person?”

    Possibly because he thinks Clay made him look bad on camera in order to make himself look good.

  • http://twitter.com/starfishy2000 starfishy2000

    Penn needs to learn to let things go. Every time he mentions ANYTHING about Celebrity Apprentice, he has to bad mouth Clay Aiken. 

  • chillj

    Umma gonna guess the only person who likes this less than Clay Aiken is, well, Lou Ferrigno.

    This is hysterical and since it involves grown-ups (unlike X Factor), my reaction is OH GOODY, THIS IS FUN!

  • http://youtube.com/user/ConcertCameraCat Sparkles

    That was hilarious (full disclosure: I’ve been a Penn & Teller fan
    since the 90′s and have seen them live. I’ve never been a Claymate and voted
    for Ruben). I’d much rather read a book by, see a show by or work on one of
    those lame Apprentice tasks with Penn than Clay. Not even close. I’ll
    definitely be checking out Penn’s book when it comes out.

  • Maya100

    What a horrible thing to write, and I’m surprised at Penn.  I’ve always liked him.  But this comment about Clay is just plain mean.  

    The unfortunate thing is, it’s not so mean to Clay, but it’s very mean to Lou.  Why did he find it necessary to write what Clay said about Lou in private?  

    What a nasty, crude thing to do, and it shows so little class – which I previously thought Penn had a lot of.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    lmao! That was fricking hilarious! I knew that he was funny, but I didn’t realize that he was such a humorist! I think that Penn really had Clay’s number on the CA, and that’s part of why Clay tried to find a way to get rid of him (and was successful!). These parts made me literally lol:

    I don’t like heart-to-heart talks with anyone, but Clay Aiken? Strap me
    to the board, and put the wet towels over my face. Drowning sounds nice.

    Clay was talking to me about how he, Clay Aiken, thought I should treat
    the guy who played a cartoon character painted green, decades ago.

    If you’ve gotten yourself into a situation when Clay Aiken is going to
    talk about his feelings with you, it’s time to kill yourself.

    Or, “I’m sorry, I don’t speak English. I learned our Vegas shows phonetically.

    ^^^ Too funny! lmao!

    This part is interesting:

    Clay explained how I should deal with Ferrigno. Clay said that he knew
    how to deal with Lou because Clay himself had worked for years with
    intellectually disabled students before he discovered himself on
    “American Idol.” He thought I should deal with this grown man—who was
    our peer, who had punched me in friendship—as if I was dealing with an
    intellectually disabled child

    I wonder if Clay will outright deny that he said this to Penn? I’m sure that Lou won’t be happy, but he may just dismiss it as Penn lying. This could get very interesting. lol

     

  • LOL79

    I once had the misfortune to spend a few hours in the company of Penn Jillette.  I have never met anyone as rude and condescending as he.  Not only was he rude and condescending to nobodies like me, he was equally rude and condescending to a group of “celebrities” on his own level.  Further every single sentence that came out of his mouth was laced with obscenities.  Not one single sentence would be permitted on network television.  In short, a breathtakingly vile individual.  BTW all the rest of the celebrities, most of them regular Vegas entertainers, were ladies and gentlemen, pleasant, respectful, and funny.

  • chillj

    I thought Clay’s insight into dealing with Lou was spot on.  I have worked with developmentally disabled people, also:  Things that work for the intellectually disabled work well on difficult people.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    If people feel, that Penn wrote about Lou in the mean way, i think that it is important to understand, that Lou really hit Penn and not just with words. I think he was aggressive for real.

    Clay got their group “to understand and love” Lou for some time, but of course it did not last long, because however much they wanted to support him, he was just like that ready throw anybody under the bus (like Dee Snider said). He was not some innocent, beautiful flower, who was mistreated.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    Well, this is interesting news to receive the points of views from the person, who has actually met the guy! Thank you! I would really like to meet the guy myself.
    I think I would still love him, because to me it seems, that he is that kind of person you either love or hate, and many do hate him. But who knows? Meeting people in person can be a totally different thing.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that in this case, it wasn’t that Lou was difficult, it was that he wasn’t very bright and rather like a child, so that’s why Clay felt that treating him like a child with intellectual disabilities would be effective. Not very nice, but probably true.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that it’s more noteworthy how Clay described as the best way to deal with Lou. Now that’s “condescending”. lol

    But Penn is actually right. He was pompous in talking “over” people’s heads, not condescending.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Li-Wright/100001622678180 Li Wright

    I love this part of the article,

    The secret truth of “The Celebrity Apprentice” is that it isn’t very hard. The tasks are nothing. Makeup starts just after 5 a.m. and the show goes to about 10 p.m., but you spend most of that time doing nothing. Anyone who isn’t in show business could accomplish everything the show called for and have time left over to do their laundry, cook their supper and post pictures of their animal companion on Facebook. “The Celebrity Apprentice” is easy like junior high is easy.  

    The best reality show on TV is the Shark Tank, I watch it religiously and gotta get my fix every week. The Donald’s show is nothing compared to the Shark Tank.

  • workdog

     Truly, it doesn’t matter which word is the “right” one in the situation; Penn WAS treating Lou disrespectfully and in this case, IMO, he’s doing it again, and including Aiken in it. Really, man the hell up. He should have said all this then or directly afterward and owned up. However, then he couldn’t go back on this debasing reality show, could he? It’s just a bit disingenuous. Whatever, sir. I didn’t take Aiken’s statement about working with intellectually challenged children as saying Lou was one; just that there are differing ways to handle the situation. It just amazes me that it’s so readily lauded when this kind of thing takes place vs. acting in a mature manner.

    I realize some are going to see the humor in the dissing and I can see it somewhat; what irks me is that Penn just seems to need either a catharsis or reassurance that he’s still the superior mind/man. It’s just kinda sad and eyeroll-y, ya know?

  • http://twitter.com/shoriagirl Shoriagirl

    So, instead of saying something at the time the evens, he put it in the book? Kind of cowardly of Penn.  Assuming that any of this even happened, I wouldn’t be surprised if Penn made it all up.

  • Dusting Divas

    We didn’t hear what Clay said. All we hear is Penn’s nasty version that is more than likely twisted to make him look better. Clay must have really gotten through to him because Penn has been on the defensive and in attack mode ever since he got called out. 

    One has to wonder why Penn went back to do Apprentice again this year. I think his ego could not stand being fired so early and having Clay come out of it so loved. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    Clay was appointed to The President’s Committee for People with Intellectual Disabilities
    (PCPID), formerly known as The President’s Committee on Mental Retardation.

    Lou Ferrigno lost 75 to 80% of his hearing as child.

    He may talk funny as a result, but that doesn’t mean he’s mentally retarded.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    If you followed Penn or read the rest of the article at Salon.com, it’s pretty clear that he sees himself pretty honestly and doesn’t spare the self-deprecation. lol

    “I didn’t take Aiken’s statement about working with intellectually
    challenged children as saying Lou was one; just that there are differing
    ways to handle the situation.”

    Well, considering that Lou has not been diagnosed as “intellectually challenged” (at least as far as I know), I don’t think that it’s a compliment that Clay felt that it was appropriate to treat Lou like someone who was intellectually challenged, even if that was an effective “strategy”. As it turns out, Clay was right. It WAS a very effective strategy in dealing with Lou, so much so, that Lou ended up loving Clay despite being treated like an intellectually challenged child. lol That’s why I said that it was Clay who was being condescending, but Penn was being pompous (which he readily admits). Two different attitudes. In the end, Clay was very successful at playing the game showing the public that he was smart, funny and savvy, but apparently didn’t do enough to warrant being declared #1 by the Trumpster. I thought that it was funny that Clay said on a recent interview that he thought that he should have business cards made up that said, “#1 #2″. lol

    Sorry, but I really find it hard to take any of this seriously. It’s a fake, goofy television show primarily driven by lame celebrities who want to raise their profile, and as Penn says, they all do so (including him), by kissing Trump’s ass and acting like children. And there’s Trump smugly presiding over it all like he’s the reincarnation of some Roman emperor. When you realize that’s what it’s really about, there’s no way that anyone on the show or anything about what goes on during show should be taken seriously.

  • Dusting Divas

    It is not self-deprecation he uses. 

    No, he insults everyone and takes advantage of the concept that the one who says it is just being humble and therefore is excepted. So he calls them all worthless pseudo celebrities clawing for their latest grab at fame partaking in a fake game doing fake tasks. He scoffs at them all, effectively disrespecting everyone at the same time. 

    Nice trick unless we can see through it and him as the pompous a**hole he is. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I don’t think that Lou is intellectually disabled. He’s just not too bright, a cry baby and a jerk. lol

  • fuzzywuzzy

     “One has to wonder why Penn went back to do Apprentice again this year. I
    think his ego could not stand being fired so early and having Clay come
    out of it so loved.”

    lol I’m sure that Penn went on the show to promote his book, which was released just as he started filming CA. After the Trumpster reads what Penn said in his book, his days on the CA may be numbered (if he hasn’t already been fired). lol

  • katy

    Penn is a condescending, bully arse. He’ll do anything for attention. 

  • Dusting Divas

    ” I’m sure that Penn went on the show to promote his book, which was released just as he started filming CA.”
    The book is just now released and filming for this coming season is over. All that is left is the live finale next May. If Penn managed to make final 2, which is highly doubtful with his terrible attitude, his insults will hopefully seal his fate. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Well, Penn may have phrased it harshly, but let’s be real. No one with a fluorishing, high-profile career goes on the Celebrity Apprentice. None of them are “A” or even “B”-list celebrities. And they are all there to promote themselves and try to gain a higher public profile.

    “Nice trick unless we can see through it and him as the pompous a**hole he is. ”

    He’s not trying to hide it, so there’s no necessity to “see through” anything. lol

  • jeff2683

    I think Penn is probably still bitter because he got fired before Clay did.  I bet he breathed a sigh of relief that Clay turned down All Star Celebrity Apprentice.

    Anyway – would rather read about Clay’s upcoming Christmas tour instead.  That is news!

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “If Penn managed to make final 2, which is highly doubtful with his terrible attitude, his insults will hopefully seal his fate. ”

    A “terrible attitude” has nothing to do with who makes the final 2. lol I’m sure that Penn won’t win, but I’m curious to see if he has changed his strategy this time and how far he gets. I find him entertaining.

  • Dusting Divas

    None of them are Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie, for sure but I see a mix with some solid B lists in there for sure. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Who? I can’t think of anyone who was even B list at the time of going on the show.

  • MellyPer1692

    Did Celebrity Apprentice want Clay back? Was there a story somewhere?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/POXOKA5X5UXYT55OTU54Q575XM Sandy

    It’s time for Penn to get over Clay he’s starting to sound like a stalker.
    Oh and Clay recently did three interviews with Sirus Radio. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Clay said in a recent interview that they called him, but he knew that he couldn’t win and since he finished 2nd the first time, all he could do is worse, so there was no point to him going on the show again. Makes sense to me.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that Penn is irritated that he let Clay get the better of him on CA. lol

  • http://twitter.com/PinkArmchair Julia Maish

    Penn strikes me as desperately insecure — why else would he hold a grudge for this long?  So he didn’t like Clay calling him on his BS.  Or maybe what he didn’t like was that it came from someone he had underestimated, someone he didn’t respect.  Sounds like he’s still pissed that Clay lasted longer on the show than he did, and outsmarted him to get there.  

    That’s what the game is about, isn’t it?  And it IS a game, albeit a rigged one — Trump can crown anyone his “celebrity apprentice” he wants, for any reason.  I hope that, if he wanted to win, Penn sucked up to him more this time.  I’d almost consider watching the show again to see that.  Okay…maybe not.

  • Dusting Divas

    “Clay said in a recent interview that they called him, but he knew that he couldn’t win ”

    To be clear, he can’t win because of politics and the fact that he is gay in the face of Trump’s homophobia. It has nothing to do with his ability to actually win. Most people feel that he won his season and was robbed because he outwitted, outplayed and out fundraised Arsenio Hall. 

  • Dusting Divas

    “It sounds like he’s been fired again. lol”
    Taping just finished for the season until the live finale in May.

  • potatorocks

    Clay didn’t win because the whole show was rigged from the start to set up Arsenio in his new talk show.  

  • jeff2683

    Yes, Clay was robbed big time!

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Oh, OK, thanks. I think that Penn would have started his Vegas show if he were fired earlier, so maybe he did get to the finale this time.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    When I got hooked (mainly because of Penn) watching CA (only the 2nd time I watched the Apprentice), I felt disgusted, how far this show was from real business, although Trump claims something else. I enjoyed very much, when Penn told, if I remember right, that his real business  has lasted much longer than Trump’s, because he started it at the age of 15. And you can see, he is down-to-earh guy willing to take a shovel into his hands, if necessary, and that is how he has built his business, and I feel he earns the success, that he may have.

    In that way I feel, he IS superior minded. If I would start anything, that I would need to work practically and I had a person like Penn at hand, I would ask for his advice. That why Clay also picked him as the first person to his group in the finals, I suppose.

    But he also kind of knows himself, that he is superior minded, and that may iritate people and actually be one of his “flaws”.

    What comes to his relation to the other celebs, that were in the show, I have understood, that he is having good if not very good relations to most of the people that attended the show, and his critics towards the show were not aimed at critisizing the persons involved personally or seeing them as worthless. (During  and after the show I followed his correspondence and activities with the persons involved)

  • musical

    I found Penn’s commentary about ‘ego depletion’ interesting and was not at all surprised that reality shows employ such tactics to manufacture drama.  His prolonged adverse reaction to Clay, indeed he has mentioned him repeatedly since his CA stint, reveals substantially more about himself than Clay.  Enough already.

  • Dusting Divas

    On Twitter someone just asked Penn why he’s harping on Clay again. Penn replied ” Books have a lead time. It was written a year ago.”

  • Deb

    There’s a big difference between Clay and Penn and that is CLASS. Clay has more class in his pinky than Penn has in his whole body. Clay has publicly spoken only well of Penn and has called him a friend, while Penn continues to bash and belittle Clay. Penn is obsessed with Clay and needs to get over it. He can’t stand that he was bested and outsmarted by Clay. Get over it Penn – time to move on.  

  • chillj

    I thought Clay was robbed in his season.  That said, I don’t think he could win if he went back because winning mainly depends on Trump’s motives at any given moment.  Winning has nothing to do with success, but I don’t really think politics and sexuality really play into it; more likely money, because Trump is fond of it.

  • chillj

    Given that Arsenio won, a terrible attitude – or at least a terrible rant – is a prerequisite for winning.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Clay didn’t say that it was due to Trump’s homophobia, so you are speculating there. I don’t think that anyone except Trump knows why he chooses who he does as the winner.

    I thought that this part of the book excerpt was interesting:

    I believe, in the real world, that I care less about what Trump thinks
    of me than he cares what I think of him. When he was into his free-form
    rants in front of a captive audience, he would talk about articles
    written about him and defend himself against charges made, as far as I
    could tell, by random bloggers with a few hundred hits. Attacks that
    could have no impact on his life at all. It sounded like this cat was
    Googling himself, being bugged by what was written, and then defending
    himself to people who were trying to improve their careers by playing a
    TV game with him. He sat on this throne, and told us he’d made a good
    business decision by selling a house of his for much less than the
    asking price and these bloggers should know that. They should know he
    was a good businessman. The nightmare of Trump is not that he doesn’t
    care what people think; it’s that he desperately cares what people think
    and … he’s doing the best he can.

    It’s weird that Trump seems to care so much what random bloggers on the Internet think of him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1664133350 Carolyn Epperson Beezley

    Penn is an asshole…born one and just grew bigger. Since appearing on CA, Clay has said nothing but nice things about Penn.Perhaps he could take a lesson in kindness.His ego will undo him one of these days.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    After watching a few episodes, I realized that the Celebrity Apprentice is a game with no rules and the celebrities are supposed to react OTT to everything and conflict, and even screaming at eachother, is supposed to be “good”. It’s too much of a joke to be taken seriously and thought of as being “rigged”.

  • Dusting Divas

    “It’s weird that Trump seems to care so much what random bloggers on the Internet think of him.”

    It’s weird that Penn can’t see that he cares just as desperately what people think, otherwise he would not be writing these defensive aggressive rants.  Last time it was to defend blowing up 10,000 dollars of charity money in a crowded square. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I disagree. I really don’t think that Penn cares what most people think of him at all. He says his peace and I can’t remember very much in the way of televised “ass kissing” that he did the last time on the CA. He’s an odd duck though, that’s for sure. I’m sort of intrigued by him and find him very entertaining.

  • potatorocks

     It seemed so obvious to me by the end that this thing was being used to put Arsenio back on the map.  I don’t know if it worked.     I totally agree it is a joke.
     I won’t watch anymore, however.  It is time to get Trump off the air.  

  • Dusting Divas

    “I really don’t think that Penn cares what most people think of him at all.”
    I disagree. If he didn’t care he would have long forgotten it. 

  • yksask

     Yes they asked him back. He declined. Seriously Penn knew pissing on Clay would make news and sell books. get over it.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Oh, I think that Penn’s reaction to Clay is all Penn, and not because of any concern of what others or the public thinks. He cares, but not about what anyone else thinks.

  • Dusting Divas

    People who don’t care what others think spend ZERO time explaining themselves. Penn spends way too much time and effort explaining and justifying himself. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Penn has over 1.86+ million Twitter followers and Clay has a little over 41,000 followers and a dwindling fanbase. I really don’t think that Penn is writing about Clay to sell more books. lol

  • Dusting Divas

    Haven’t we thoroughly buried the misconception that twitter followers = popularity? Yes we have. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I follow Penn on twitter and listen to his podcasts. He’s opinionated, passionate about discussing anything and everything and engages people on twitter, but he doesn’t really care about what anyone else thinks. He will explain where he’s coming from so he isn’t misunderstood, but he doesn’t care about what others think of him.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    There’s a rough correlation, but aside from twitter, Clay’s declining CD and ticket sales confirm that his fanbase has and continues to dwindle.

  • yksask

     I disagree. He took a swipe at another CA contestant and then released this section of the book too press. He was looking for controversy which sells books. Lets see how many of his 1.86 miliion buy this book?

  • Dusting Divas

    All it proves is that 9 years without radio has an effect. Lack of promotion has been proven to have a negative effect on sales. Go figure! 

    Still, he sets out on his 11th national tour in 9 years. Not many can say that. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Oh, who else did he take a swipe at? TBH, I think that Penn writes these books as a way to proselytize atheism. Since the book is titled, “Every Day is an Atheist Holiday” I really doubt that Penn is targeting Clay’s fans. lol

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    I think this is just a very little part of his book, but it becomes “big” here of course because the site is concentrated to Idol etc things.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    I pressed one wrong “like”. I do not have knowledge or opinion about Clay’s popularity.
    And I do not like, if Clay’s fan base is going down. I like him.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Not to get too sidetracked, but Clay doesn’t seem to want to record the kind of music that gets radioplay, so that probably has a lot to do with his lack of it. I always thought that Clay just looked at his singing career like it was a temporary thing (like “summer camp”, I think that he said at one point) and wanted to ride the wave as long as he could. He’s done really well for a long time relying mainly on his Idol fanbase, but it does seem that things aren’t improving. I’m surprised that nothing seemed to come from his appearance on the CA, although this upcoming tour is one benefit from the show, at least partly.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    If you want to “unlike” a post, just click on the “like” button again.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/S6ORHQKMGKT6ZXMM6FDB2PAQ7Q cretan

    Penn is a pompous ass.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    I tried, but for some reason it does not work, “like” will not go away. But thanks anyway.

  • Dusting Divas

    Clay has a lot coming up in his career but this isn’t the place to get updates on him. He gets ignored here except when someone is bashing him. 

    His tour starts on Friday and he just taped an hour on Dr.Oz about conversion therapy. He did a lot of interviews on radio this week including on OutQ with the adorable Larry Flick. He’s done print interviews too but you’d never know it around here.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    He’s also involved in some kind of project or book about being closeted. I haven’t read anything more than that and what you wrote about (and the tour), so you must have “inside” information if there’s a “lot coming up in his career”. No mention of any new music anytime soon.

  • Dusting Divas

    He released 8 cds in 9 years including one 6 months ago and toured 11 times in 9 years. The man is always busy.

  • workdog

    “Well, considering that Lou has not been diagnosed as “intellectually
    challenged” (at least as far as I know), I don’t think that it’s a
    compliment that Clay felt that it was appropriate to treat Lou like
    someone who was intellectually challenged, even if that was an effective
    “strategy”.

    Perhaps I wasn’t clear in my statement; I meant that I didn’t think Aiken thought Lou had intellectual disabilities but that he felt his previous work with others that DID have challenges of various types perhaps gave him a different perspective on dealing with differing personalities, sensitivities, etc. It appears his approach was the correct one. Whatever it is/was it’s not world ending but Penn really could use a good dose of stepping outside himself and looking back in; perhaps he’d realize he comes off as such a (insert your own adjective/descriptor here) ass.

    That’s probably more effort than I care to expend on Penn.:-)

  • fuzzywuzzy

    True, but only 2 CDs were mainly original music, 2 were Christmas releases (1 CD and 1 EP) and the CD he released 6 months ago, Steadfast, was basically a reissue of songs from his Tried and True CD of 2010 with one new song. TnT and ATDW were cover CDs. Plus 1 “Best of” CD, which were reissues of previous recordings. So only 6 CDs that required new recording in the studio.

  • Dusting Divas

    Whoooo! Fancy! You really worked hard to try to diminish his work. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    No, just being factual.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=579290324 Michael Bishop

    Ok…let me see if I can piece this together.

    Clay Aiken sees that Penn was treating Lou poorly in his opinion.  So, as an thoughtful ADULT would do, he took Penn aside and had a conversation with him.  In the real world, that is called being an adult.  The world would be a better place if others would take people aside and TALK.  Talk about how we can treat others better.

    However, in Penn’s world, he can’t seem to process that perhaps his conduct was wrong, and YES…condescending.  He should be thanking Clay, and not deriding him.  Clay could have just as easily turned it into a big Real Housewives moment, or some of those other crappy realty shows and made a big production over Penn’s neanderthal attitude.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Perhaps I wasn’t clear in my statement; I meant that I didn’t think
    Aiken thought Lou had intellectual disabilities but that he felt his
    previous work with others that DID have challenges of various types
    perhaps gave him a different perspective on dealing with differing
    personalities, sensitivities, etc. It appears his approach was the
    correct one.”

    That’s a good point, and I had forgotten that Lou was severely hearing challenged. I think that maybe, Penn wasn’t fully understanding what Clay meant or took it the wrong way.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/POXOKA5X5UXYT55OTU54Q575XM Sandy

    Can’t wait to hear Clay do Christmas Music. 
    Looking forward to reading the book he’s working on and his apperance on Dr. Oz.  Dr. Eliza (sp) Byrd who’s the head of GLSEN was on with him and tweeted  him that he did a great job. 

  • Dusting Divas

    Not so factual when it is not actually full of facts. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    It depends on the rendition of the cover as to the public response (most fans love everything that their favorites do). The mention of Clay’s covers CDs was in reference to your comment about lack of radioplay, since covers rarely get radioplay. That’s what I meant by recording the kind of songs that don’t usually get radioplay. 

  • jeff2683

    Make that 44,150 Followers on Twitter.  
    Oh, be sure and watch for the airing of Clay Aiken and Eliza Byard, the Director of GLSEN on Dr. Oz in the near future.They just taped a show this week.

  • Dusting Divas

    Some cover versions became a bigger hit than the original, often becoming the defining version of the song. Case in point, Dolly Parton’s I Will Always Love You which was covered and claimed by Whitney Houston. 

    Songs by either of those artists no longer get radio, neither do any other artists that don’t fit the popular formats. Whitney would have been a flop instead of a star if she tried to break into the music scene now.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I read that Clay will be appearing on Dr. Oz to talk about conversion therapy. It makes me wonder if he had tried it and could speak from personal experience.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Yes, some covers do become bigger hits than the original, but that’s pretty rare. Clay’s version of “Without You” was sent to radio but didn’t have any success, so it wasn’t one of those rarities and none of his other covers from ATDW or TnT became hits.

    I don’t know how Whitney would do in radioplay if she were to break into the music scene now, but I have a feeling that she still would have been a star.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    True, half of 14 is 7 and there were only 4 new original songs on ATDW.

  • Dusting Divas

     Clay’s version of “Without You” was sent to radio but didn’t have any label support so didn’t get any spins. Did I mention the lack of promotion for the past 8 years? I did? 

  • Karen C

    That’s a good point, and I had forgotten that Lou was severely hearing challenged. I think that maybe, Penn wasn’t fully understanding what Clay meant or took it the wrong way

    I think that’s what happened, because at least from what was on the show, Clay said he had worked with disabled children, including deaf children.  There was a point in the show where something happened with Lou that there was some sort of misunderstanding between him and the others, and Clay was the one that not only explained things to him, but explained things to the other too, that it was because he was having trouble hearing them.

    I was actually glad for Clay that he did this, because it did help Lou.  I know how that type of thing can affect a person.

  • Dusting Divas

    there were only 4 new original songs on ATDW.”
    Which is 4 more than you admitted when you declared it all covers. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bug-Menot/100003601718986 Bug Menot

    Clay apparently had a 1-1/2 hour conversation with him. Penn didn’t appreciate the browbeating as he felt Clay was the condescending one.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I remember that Marlee Matlin said that Lou should have someone to sign for him, because it’s too difficult, especially in a group, for someone to be able to read lips well enough to understand and keep up with what’s going on. Apparently, Lou refused so I’m sure that caused more difficulty for him and he probably became defensive when he missed a lot. Not a great situation.

  • upsidedawn

    Well, I don’t know if the number of Twitter followers is any indication of popularity, but after reading Penn’s highly entertaining and hilarious article in Salon, thanks to the link here, I’ve just followed him on Twitter myself.

  • Dusting Divas

    “Penn didn’t appreciate the browbeating”

    Never at any time did Penn suggest he was browbeaten. He said he was uncomfortable discussing feelings. He said it took all of 10 minutes to discuss having children with his wife. He hates “talking”. No doubt he hated being called out for being pompous, arrogant and condescending.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    True. At 1 1/2 hours, it probably ended up being more of a lecture than a heart-to-heart. I still think that Penn is correct and Clay was being condescending, but Penn was being pompous.

  • jeff2683

    From what I understand ( read somewhere) that a lot of that time was spent with no one saying anything!  LOL

    Forgot that Clay is writing another book.  Looks like Clay is not dead yet.
    Writing another book, tour starting this Friday and on Dr. Oz.    

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I believe that Clay only called him condescending. Penn is the one who admitted to being pompous. I don’t think that anyone mentioned arrogant. I think that Penn objected to being wrongly referred to as condescending, and he’s right. Meanwhile, he freely admitted to being pompous. Sorry, but I find Penn entertaining.

  • Dusting Divas

    “Well, I don’t know if the number of Twitter followers is any indication of popularity”

    It does indicate the level of trainwreckitude. Charlie Sheen gained millions in one day when he lost his mind. Sane persons are not as entertaining as pompous asses. 

  • Dusting Divas

    ” At 1 1/2 hours, it probably ended up being more of a lecture than a heart-to-heart.”

    No it was mostly silence. 

  • Goodvibes27

    I think Clay is hanging on pretty well. He can still do tours on a pretty good level. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Penn loves to pontificate but does not listen.”

    Actually, Penn does listen and is very responsive to tweets from both friend and foe. I think that there’s a danger in believing that the portrayal of anyone on these highly edited “reality” shows is real. All of these celebrities know about projecting an image and how to manipulate viewers. Plus, the CA has it’s own angle/agenda in how they want the players to be portrayed.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Do you have a source for that information? I never heard that.

  • Dusting Divas

    “Penn is the one who admitted to being pompous. I don’t think that anyone mentioned arrogant”

    Same thing.

    Main Entry:pompous ?[pom-puhs]  

    Definition:arrogant, egotistic affected, bloated, boastful, bombastic,conceited, flatulent, flaunting, flowery, fustian,grandiloquent, grandiose, high and mighty, high-flown, highfaluting, imperious, important, inflated,magisterial, magniloquent, narcissistic, orotund,ostentatious, overbearing, overblown, pontifical,portentous, presumptuous, pretentious, puffedup, puffy, rhetorical, self-centered, self-important, selfish, showy, sonorous, stuck-up,supercilious, turgid, uppity, vain, vainglorious,windy

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that Clay worked very hard and toured a lot in the first few years after Idol and probably amassed quite a fortune so financially he’s probably secure, which allows him to be less active in recent years.

  • Dusting Divas

    “Penn does listen and is very responsive to tweets”

    They are just opportunities for Penn to further pontificate. No-one loves the sound of Penn’s voice more than Penn. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    If they mean the same thing, then why use both words? lol

  • Dusting Divas

    “If they mean the same thing, then why use both words? lol”

    For people like you who didn’t know they are the same thing. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    No, if you read his responses, there’s very little pontificating that Penn does on twitter. He’s very open to discussion and often brutally honest about himself in an objective and rarely complimentary way.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    No, I knew that they meant the same thing. I was questioning whether either Clay or Penn had used the word “arrogant” and they hadn’t. I’m glad the you are giving your thesaurus a workout though. lol

  • upsidedawn

    But, you see, I don’t think of Jillette as a train wreck. The guy has a sharp turn of phrase. I think his book will be highly entertaining.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I hadn’t considered buying Penn’s book, but after reading this excerpt I think that I’ll reconsider. He really had me literally lol.

  • Dusting Divas

    It would be nice to also include Clay’s POV from Clay’s weekly recap on NBC.com http://www.nbc.com/the-apprentice/clays-take/2012/03/week-5/

    I wanted to try to clear the air with Penn… maybe not the best idea. He has said he doesn’t like to have serious conversations with people. He has said he has only had a serious conversation about three times in his life and only with his partner Teller and with his wife. My guess is that this is probably because he rarely wants to hear what other people are thinking or feeling… but what do I know? The conversation with him was one of the oddest conversations I have ever had with another human being and ended with him just staring blankly at me and not saying a word for two minutes! We were called away to look at the video edit. That’s the only thing that stopped the blank staring. And then, after we had looked at the edit, Penn came up to me and said “I’m sorry, Clay. I think we were having a conversation. Shall we finish?” WTH?!?!?… You mean, should we get back to you staring at me and not talking??? I think I’ll pass.

  • mjsbigblog

    Reminder:

    I recognize right away when a banned poster comes back with a new name. Just so you know.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “My guess is that this is probably because he rarely wants to hear what
    other people are thinking or feeling… but what do I know?”

    I agree with Clay here, but not in what he’s implying. I think that Penn, like most people, really only cares to have in-depth intellectual or emotional “feelings” kind of conversations with certain people that he knows, and really doesn’t care to hear what most people are thinking or feeling. I think that most people are the same way, if perhaps not to the same extent as Penn. I know that I won’t reveal my feelings or innermost thoughts to people I don’t really know, and I think a lot of people are like this too. Similarly, I don’t really want to hear the feelings or innermost thoughts of people I don’t know either.

    I think that Clay realized that in the context of the show, having a “heart-to-heart” talk was artificial at best, especially when it became the impetus for getting rid of Penn (Clay admitted that his actions against Penn were “calculated”). So Clay was taking advantage of the situation with Lou to make himself look good (Lou’s “savior”) at Penn’s expense and it worked like a charm. I’m sure that Penn immediately realized this, and that’s why he uttered the “I’ve never felt so set up in my life” comment. Obviously hyperbole, but I think that Penn immediately knew that Clay’s “move” was calculated, and it turns out that he was right.

  • Dusting Divas

    Penn is the epitome of “Enough about you, let’s get back to MEEEEEEE” LOL 

  • jeff2683

    We’ll let you buy and read then you can give us the condensed version.  LOL

  • fuzzywuzzy

    lol I’m hesitant because I dislike anyone proselytizing about their religious beliefs, even if they are anti-Deity beliefs. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NWXRUOY5BTHY5F52JP3ZFJTTVI Mikko

    I am sure you read this article from last spring, but that is where he already got me “literally” – he is a great story teller. I rarely see this kind of – art.

    I also think, that here in this article, one can see, why some people appreciate Penn – or do not appreciate at all.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/penn-jillette/celebrity-apprentice-blue-man-group_b_1395411.html

  • http://www.facebook.com/beaugard.stevens Beaugard Stevens

    Not a big surprise.  You could tell he had a lot of resentment toward Clay at the time but what is surprising is that he still feels so strongly about it – time to get over it.  Clay blocked his path on Apprentice, Penn was angry over it- he wasn’t the most popular one in the room- so what?  Have any of you ever been to Las Vegas?  Penn is one of the Kings of that town, he’s everywhere.  He has a lot to be grateful for- this petty jealousy is beneath him. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/gpeterson133 Grant Peterson

    Homophobia?  You do realize he’s a well-known atheist, who constantly speaks out against moronic religious things such as homophobia, right?

  • upsidedawn

     I myself don’t think he’s homophobic at all.  I know some here have interpreted the comments in the excerpt that way–I didn’t see it.

  • upsidedawn

    He said that he wrote that a long time ago, so probably he’s over it. There is commonly a considerable lead time for promoting books.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Most people feel that he won his season and was robbed because he outwitted, outplayed and out fundraised Arsenio Hall.”

    I don’t think that it’s known what proportion of viewers felt that Clay should have won, but I do think that Clay was far better at playing the game than Arsenio. Then again, Arsenio may have known that he had the win “in the bag”, so he knew that he could just coast. It’s hard to believe that Arsenio made it to the finale based on merit.

  • Joshua

    Penn is so homophobic that a lot of his best friends are gay, he’s spent time hanging out in Gay Bathhouses and he appreciates good looking men in that special way that you say ‘he’s beautiful, Brad Pitt.. I have a crush on him’ – Penn Jillette. His humour is ironic, in fact in the preceding chapter in the book this is taken from he explains it. ‘Using idiotic pseudoscience’ – the man is a debunker of pseudoscience and helps the Randi Foundation to call out and expose fakery and pseudoscience… not to mention he had a long running show called Bullshit that did that. ‘Doesn’t automatically make someone an intellectual giant’ – what the heck are you talking about? Atheists become Einstein and Oscar Wilde do they? So much so that you have to point out they don’t…. Jive man, you’re a soundbite without the sound. I don’t dig the language, I don’t like Penn talking in depth about his sexual encounters, even though it’s his right to do so. I rarely talk about my own in the privacy of my best friend’s garage or my wife’s bed in detail like he does in a chapter of his book… but Penn is basically the opposite of your interpretation, and I respect the guy for being hard working, and making valid opinions and points out there in the world that have definitely given people a new perspective on things. Disagree with that? Unfortunately, your argument is invalid… because I learned a lot and got a new perspective on a few things from Penn, whilst disagreeing on others. yeah, no Penn isn’t really a good candidate for homophobia. Go sling your soundbites at a soundboard, just replace all the ‘Atheists this, atheists that’ with Arnold Schwarzenegger lines, it’s way more fun and you won’t spout so much nonsense.

  • Joshua

    And you are totally different to that… you totally, totally are.

  • Joshua

    Read the article again.

  • curlyenta

    It doesn’t because followers can and are bought frequently and it’s hard to know who has done that and to what degree. Followers for sure don’t equal record sales. That’s a no brainer.