Nigel Lythgoe Not Happy with The Voice Emmy Win

After The Voice won Outstanding Reality Show at last night’s Emmy awards, Nigel Lythgoe took to twitter to express his displeasure.

Nigel, as most of you know, is the ex-producer of American Idol. He also produces one of the programs that competed in the category, So You Think You Can Dance.

 

I agree with Nigel’s sentiments on American Idol vs The Voice. But for him to whine on twitter about Idol’s lack of Emmy love is not a good look. He should have congratulated The Voice producer, Mark Burnett, and been done with it.

Name checking one of Burnett’s other shows, Survivor, for its game changing originality (Amazing Race borrowed from its format yet dominated the category for years) did take the sting out of the diss a little bit.  That is, for those who are aware that Burnett produces both shows…

  • Amy Beth

    I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think the reason AI never won an Emmy is right there in the subtitle of MJ’s blog: “I Love this Cheesy Show”. Idol was perceived as a ratings monster, but not well-regarded as a quality television show.

    In its heyday, Idol was feared by its competition, but not acclaimed by the industry.

  • Mateja Praznik

    Oh Nigel, shut up. If you and your colleagues at American Idol worked harder in the last 10 years, maybe the show wouldn’t have been eternally snubbed. Instead of working harder and developing the show, you put less and less effort into it with each passing year.

  • Whyyawanna

    Admittingly, last year was a crappy season, but other seasons have been great, and should have won in the past if the Voice could win. Idol has a legacy in television, something the Voice will never have.

    I loved seeing an idol winner perform at the Emmys, something you will never see with the Voice. At least not anytime soon.

    I hate how The Voice acts like the “cool new freshman” so that’s a reason why I didn’t want it to win.

  • b_james

    Maybe I’m missing something with The Voice, but I just so don’t view it as quality programming or anything that great. I watch it bc I’m a sucker for singing TV shows, but Idol is clearly the better show. Even X Factor! But with The voice, I pretty much fast forward through anything that isn’t singing.

  • windmills

    I think you nailed it, actually. Besides that, I was saying last night I don’t feel like a Best Reality Show Emmy would really capture in-its-prime AI’s impact on TV anyway. The Voice has come along when the idea of talent show competitions is more accepted, and I don’t have any trouble agreeing that it has made for better TV lately, at least in its blind auditions phase.

    tripp_nwcy suggested AI might one day win a special acknowledgement Emmy for its impact on the TV landscape, and that makes sense to me.

  • Bugme Nomor

    I can’t think of one Reality TV show that isn’t Cheesy.

  • Bugme Nomor

    Perhaps Nigel was reacting to this:

    ——————————

    As Mark Burnett addressed the media room for “The Voice’s”
    win for best reality competition series, the inevitable questions
    regarding comparisons to “American Idol” arose. The exec producer of the Peacock singing competish was quick to state that “The Voice” bears stark differences from its Fox competitor.

    “John de Mol’s format [for ‘The Voice’] is a kind format,” Burnett explained, implicitly referencing “Idol’s” signature cringe-inducing audition segs. “There’s no humiliation [on ‘The Voice’]. People said these shows would never work without humiliation, and that’s not true. Americans love kindness and great music.”

    The Emmy win comes conveniently one night before “The Voice” returns to NBC’s lineup, with Burnett remarking, “We want to be number one again!”

    ——————————-

    per Variety

  • MrTemecula

    Nigel just dragged Survivor into his petulance because Nigel is a 5 year old boy who is throwing a pity party.

  • Miles (Grumpy) (VI)

    IMO this was the worst season of Idol ever from a management perspective, they just missed the mark. Perhaps they knew they were going out the door before the rest of us. Production values were way down for a talented group of kids and I hate the way they are treating the contestants post idol,

    However, I’ll be back next year.

    The Voice? Just…. no.

  • bridgette12

    Shut up Nigel, Idol can’t live off of past achievement. If you want the show to be given awards, make a better show. It’s simple, get the ratings up, get better contestants and stop letting the egomaniacs on the judges panel, hog the spotlight.

  • Sassycatz

    I think Nigel was absolutely correct and I responded to him in kind. Back when Idol was a television behemoth and clearly deserved recognition, the reality genre was looked down upon much more than it is today. Now every network has their shows which Idol helped to pave the way for in this era of television. So, *now* that the genre is more accepted Idol gets passed over in favor of The Voice. And, I’ll tell you one reason why … it’s because The Voice is about the celebrity panel, their chemistry, their interaction, their careers and not about the contestants and Hollywood is all about rewarding anything that celebrates *them,* not “nobodies.” Just note how often awards shows, themselves, get awards, which is utterly ridiculous.

  • ladymctech

    For once, I also agree with Nigel. While the Voice promotes harmony among all (as well as the mentors’ careers), that’s not realistic of the music industry. Even we outsiders can figure that out. So much for the best “reality” designation.

  • thedeviledadvocate

    The Voice winning an emmy this year has absolutely nothing to do with American Idol not winning an emmy during Idol’s long historic run. While I have enjoyed most seasons of AI, this past season was my least favorite. On the other hand, Season 4 was my favorite season of the Voice, followed closely by Season 3. Seasons 1 and 2 of the Voice were okay, but they didn’t draw me in like Seasons 3 and 4. Season 12 of AI was susceptible for improvement, and honestly, I do not believe it would have deserved an emmy for that season even if it had won. It is mind boggling that AI has never won. I think The Voice deserved to win this year, as it was very entertaining IMO.

    American Idol’s track record of launching numerous careers for many unknowns will likely never be matched. AI’s place in television history is secure. The awards given to those in the industry from those in the industry is just a whole bunch of Happy Hoopla anyway. There have always been and will always be unbelievable snubs, that are seemingly inexplicable. It is just irritating when it happens to my favorite, actor, actress, show, movie, song, writer, etc… We can take solace in the fact that while AI may never have won an emmy, it held down being the top rated show for years, and it certainly has no competition over the past 10 years when it comes to collecting advertising dollars. It is too bad they didn’t use some of the profits from all those dollars to make more songs available for the contestants to sing.

  • ladymctech

    Americans may like kindness. But they aren’t doing much to support the winners of the Voice. Just ask the first two guys who won.

  • MV007

    Yes, this is why AI wasn’t recognized in the past. But then the question must be asked why a knockoff of Idol is now being recognized.

  • Whyyawanna

    That’s kinda an oxymoron, because the Voice judges hog that spotlight too and make it about themselves. I haven’t seen one contestant centered promo for the show this year. Just “the original coaches are back! Which coach will win?!”

  • Montavilla

    It definitely should.

  • bridgette12

    It’s kind of hard to promote contestants when the show haven’t started yet.

  • bridgette12

    But The Voice deserved the award and Idol had a shitty show this year.

  • Montavilla

    I have no problem with Nigel whining on twitter about this. Go, Nigel!

    He’s right about Survivor, too. I like them both, but Survivor is ten times the show that The Amazing Race is, but TAR kept winning the Emmy.

    The thing is, television isn’t about a single episode (which is what the Emmy voters base their votes on). It’s about creating a season. It’s about making something that will bring the audience back week after week.

    The Voice‘s auditions are riveting. For exactly one episode. All the other audition episodes are kind of repetitive, and the rest of the season gets progressively less interesting. American Idol starts out with moderately interesting audition episodes, dramatic Hollywood weeks, and then builds to a great climax (although there’s a wearisome stretch between about Top Eight-Top Four).

    Likewise, TAR looks really good when you view a single episode, but the entire season is mostly on the same level. Colorful locations with people bickering their way through silly tasks. Watch three episodes of Survivor, and you’ll get hooked, because you’re watching basic human drama of survival — both with the elements and with primal human instincts.

  • Miss Blue

    That’s in your opinion, actually. I love TV, all of it. So we already differ here.

    I’ve watched every episode of Survivor and AR. In my opinion, there is no contest – AR is far superior. So once again we differ.

    I watched every episode of AI until Scott McCreary and the country hoe-down finale. Ugh. Since then it’s been very sporadic viewing for me, more often than not watching videos online rather than the show. The horrid themes, horrid limited song choices, horrid auditions, horrid judging – all of it just got to be too much. Personally, I think the show, from a technical viewpoint, is awful. If you can’t acknowledge that AI has become the most repetitive show on television at this point, which you accuse TV and AR of being, you are not being realistic. And AI is not just repetitive in their basic process, they’ve received complaint after complaint about the repeated themes, repeated songs, repeated judging comments.

  • Sassycatz

    I’m really not talking about this year so much as I’m talking about previous years when clearly Idol was a force and deserved recognition. It’s kind of comparable to the way some actor or television show is constantly overlooked even though they do excellent work and produce quality television. In other words, Idol deserved a nod long before The Voice was even on the scene.

  • Eric Mitchell

    To be fair The Voice now has a legacy of being a TV show that won an Emmy. The Voice has never and will never be about launching a star. The Voice is a TV show designed to entertain and that is all NBC and Burnett wants it to be. The job of making a star is in the hands of the Record company that signs the winner.

  • Eric Mitchell

    Personally I don’t think Idol would have beaten The Amazing Race in past Emmy’s. That show always hit it out of the park production wise so I don’t think it is a bad thing that AI never won in the past. I think if they had been doing better seasons lately they would have been able to make a run at winning now.

  • Eric Mitchell

    AR has everything Emmy voters love which is why it won for so many years. I disagree that it is superior then Survivor (I think Survivor blows it away for drama) but I can see why it would get Emmy love over Survivor and AI. It is a brilliant show and really well produced

  • Amy Beth

    I get a rush of adrenalin every time the Amazing Race theme music plays. To me, TAR is a really well-produced package compared to most other reality shows.

  • nncw

    AI fix the sound system and attitude and you might win an award too.

  • bridgette12

    You can’t go back and change what happened years ago. Unless the Emmy’s are going to give out a lifetime achievement award, their awards are given to the show that was the best of the season. Nigel complaining on twitter just reeks of sour grapes. It’s not The Voice fault that Idol got shafted years ago. It happens and now it’s a little late in the ball game for Idol to get a Emmy now when quality of the show is no longer there and the ratings stink.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Contestants are promoted all the time in pre-show promos. In fact, I am about to put one up right now for The Voice.

    American Idol’s promos are peppered with upcoming hopefuls from the day the promo begins, to the day the show premieres.

  • Larc

    If the industry hasn’t acclaimed Idol that has produced some stars, but is acclaiming The Voice that has produced none, then the industry is stupid.

  • bridgette12

    And the judges, antiquated themes, boring, predictable contestants and bad ratings.

  • Sassycatz

    If “bad ratings” were the reason it wasn’t getting an award, then neither would The Voice or a heck of a lot of other shows.

    ETA: I think a lot of it has to do with the view out there that The Voice is the “new,” cool kid on the block and Idol is the old dinosaur.

  • Eric Mitchell

    I totally agree which is why I don’t think AI would have beaten AR even in it’s best season (Season 8 in my mind). In most cases I just prefer Tribal Council on Survivor over the Pit Stop on AR

  • Amy Beth

    That acclaim would be shown at the Grammys and AMAs. The Emmy is an award for what you see on your television screen, not for how well the “cast” does in another industry.

  • lkingcorn

    In Idols banner years reality TV was seen as a poor step sister. Now a big percentage of TV is realty based and can no longer be ignored. Idol was the trail blazer and deserved recognition. Politics just play a huge role in winning these awards. The Voice reminds me of a game show with singing as the game.

  • Eric Mitchell

    Everyone is acting as if AI actually deserved to win the Emmy. It was nominated each year but again Amazing Race was the far better show production wise and I would argue that both Project Runway and Survivor would have beaten AI if not for AR and Top Chef

  • Amy Beth

    Technically, The Voice didn’t beat AI this year because AI wasn’t even nominated.

  • Eric Mitchell

    People do realize that Idol has had 9 nominations for best Reality Show. It’s not like it was never nominated. It was just beaten each year by better shows (Ok Mostly Amazing Race). The Voice snuck in on an off year for a lot of shows and if Idol had been better this past season it may have won an Emmy.

  • Whyyawanna

    Season 8 wouldn’t have won an Emmy, there were a lot of things wrong with the season in critics eyes.

  • masacredo

    Perhaps this – Kathy Griffin: My Life on the D-List, Be good Johnny Weir.

  • bridgette12

    Bad ratings do play a part, considering how far Idol has fallen from it juggernaut pedestal. Ratings alone with various other problems, has made Idol obsolete when it comes to the Emmy’s.

  • Whyyawanna

    The Voice didn’t deserve it.

  • Whyyawanna

    All the shows get worse ratings than idol and they were still nominated.

  • bridgette12

    The amount of time spent on showing the judges of both shows are a lot more than of the contestants and considering that the judges are a known factor, they have a bigger impact. When it comes to the contestants, all your doing showing a bunch of strangers for a few seconds and very few if any, make a impact. You don’t get to know any of these people until you actually see the audition show.

  • Eric Mitchell

    I also think that the real Emmy crime is that Ryan Seacrest has never won Best Reality Show Host. As anyone who reads my Survivor recap knows I love Jeff Probst but I think they should have given at least one award to Ryan.

  • bridgette12

    Well the Emmy’s thought so and even if The Voice didn’t win, Idol would still have been beaten by the other shows nominated. Idol sucked this past season and whether The Voice sucked also, it was still better than Idol.

  • Whyyawanna

    The Voice is very repeatative. The auditions are always the judges fighting over someone then if they suck and don’t turn around, they tell the horrible singers “you did amazing, you are a star, even though none of us turned around.” Then battle rounds/knockout, then eliminations until team Blake wins once again. Blah.

  • Whyyawanna

    In the end, I don’t think this really matters, The Voice doesn’t hold a candle to idol in terms of legacy, credibility, popularity, past talent, etc. Idols best seasons are still better than the Voice’s best seasons. It’s just an Emmy.

  • bridgette12

    Like I said, the ratings of the show was part of the problems. No other show that was nominated ahead of Idol had a worst season overall and got flayed by the media for a mediocre product.

  • Montavilla

    I agree that the repetitive themes, songs, and judging comments is a problem. The themes were a huge problem this year, the songs and judging comments less so. (While Randy kept saying the same things he always does, the other judges had new things to say.)

    But the basic format works well in creating a “journey” as Ryan Seacrest loves to put it. From a story persepctive, this year was actually quite good. I loved the storyline of someone winning the show after three tries — and it’s a story that was foreshadowed last season when Candice was so unfairly cut in the Vegas round. Lazaro made a compelling villain for the season, knocking out better singers with the power of his backstory, and becoming “a national nightmare.” They even managed to upgrade the Huff into something that had fans outraged when Candice was left of out everyone but Mariah’s Top Three list.

    And, between Candice, Kree, Angela, and Amber — and Janelle — there were compelling performances throughout the season.

    If the last season sucked, it only sucked in comparison with past American Idol seasons. And if the show has gotten lazy, it’s mostly because there’s so much right with the basic format that they become too complacent. (Although, I don’t think complacency was the problem with the last season.)

  • gem2477

    I’d rather have been a ratings monster who changed TV forever than win an Emmy anyday. People will forget about the Emmy, but the effects Idol had on pop culture will remain for a long time.

  • gem2477

    exactly LOL

  • gem2477

    Yes, these award shows usually go to the same places to the “hip” shows / people at the time.

  • bridgette12

    I think some people put too much emphasis on this ratings battle between these two show. I didn’t watch Idol for years because it was number one, I watched it because it was fun and I got caught up in the contestants. Now that it is no longer fun or have interesting contestants that can hold my interest, it’s no longer must see tv. The Voice for me, is a good show and I enjoy watching it. I don’t watch it to spite Idol, I watch it because I like it.

  • gem2477

    The Voice had a crappy show the last few years. :P

  • bridgette12

    But it don’t change what happened to Idol this past season. If you have a crappy show, it don’t make your show less crappier by comparing it to another crappy show.

  • shell29

    That’s not The Voice’s fault though, which is why I don’t get why Nigel is being so salty about their Emmy win last night.

  • shell29

    True, but Mark is specifically talking about the TV show, not what happens afterwards. His main objective is putting together an entertaining show with decent ratings. Any success the contestants achieve after the show is gravy.

  • Montavilla

    So, if we take as a given that last season was not AI’s best one, here’s a couple questions:

    What season should AI have won for?

    Why?

    Since the voters base their choices on a single submitted “for your consideration” episode of a show, which single episode should Nigel and/or Ken chosen to highlight?

    (Bear in mind that, as professionals, Emmy voters would no doubt be scrutinizing things like camerawork, sound production, lighting, etc.)

    I can’t wait to see the answers!

    I’m thinking that maybe Season Five and Ten were the best overall seasons. But to be honest, I don’t recall that much of Season Five — other than really liking Taylor and finding Daughtry exciting as the first real rock singer on the show. Season Ten was really good from auditions through Top Three.

    The single episode I would have shown was the Top Four. It’s hard to beat the drama of Randy Jackson making Haley cry by saying all the singers were great — except her. And then having her deliver that incredible “I (Who Have Nothing.)”

  • shell29

    It’s about the TV show though, not about the stars it may or may not produce. The Emmy voters aren’t voting on what happens to the contestants on these shows after the competition ends.

  • shell29

    Makes sense to me too.

  • Sassycatz

    I will never say that AI deserved an Emmy this year, but it certainly deserved one in years past; maybe more than one. The fact that they didn’t acknowledge it at the time makes me think that it was more about sticking it to the show that was blowing them all out of the water ratings-wise and looking down their noses at it because it wasn’t “scripted” television and used real people as its cast. So, no actors and no writers. Plus, and most importantly — along with shows like Survivor — it started a trend towards this kind of programming that ate up TV time, taking it away from scripted television. You have to ask … 1) who votes for these awards and 2) do they do it in a vacuum?

  • usedtobelucy

    In our celebrity- and wealth-obsessed culture, which the Hollywood establishment pretty much buys into 1000 percent with nary a whisper of a shade of a glimmer of a doubt or question, it doesn’t surprise me that the most all-about-the-haves-and-the-hell-with-the-have-nots “reality” talent contest would end up being the Emmy winner.

    But that’s just me. ha

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    A good singer can pique interest (or a really bad one!) in the show. Otherwise, they wouldn’t bother to include them in their promos.

  • Whyyawanna

    I’m thinking Seasons 5, 7, and 10. I thought they were the most entertaining and had diverse casts that viewers were invested in. My memory is fading me for Seasons 5 and 7, but for 10 I would have submitted the episode where Casey gets saved. Stevie Wonder randomly came, the wrestler guy, Casey’s epic save moment, it was just an entertaining episode. Maybe even the Vegas episode, that was well done.

  • Whyyawanna

    That is just your opinion, but plenty of others have found interesting contestants over the last few years try could lach onto. Seasons 10 and 11 were the best as far as talent.

  • bridgette12

    Season 10 and 11 had a lot of talent, but easily forgettable individuals that no one cares about afterwards, which can be said for a lot of Idol seasons. There’s no shame in that, because the music business is a very tough and very few people make it due to a lot of competition, music evolving and being able to survive the latest fad in music, plus being able to find one’s niche within the business.

  • Craigin

    I’d say Season Five during The Great American Songbook week. Many critics site that week as the best AI episode, performance wise, in AI history. I actually agree. Everyone did well (it was top 7 week I believe). Top 5 was also really good when Paris did the Prince and MJB songs…

    Mariah Carey Week during Season 7 was phenomenal as was Dolly Parton week. I also really liked the first Beatles week they did too. All great shows. The worst though was when they forced Syesha to sing that Happy Feet song and Fever. So not cool. Talk about manipulation. Nothing beats that move by the producers. For that reason alone, I’d say AI didn’t deserve the Emmy that season. -_-

    The Season Four top 3 show was also really great. I still think Carrie, Bo & Voz were the best top 3 we’ve had and put on the best top 3 show we’ve seen.

    Season 10 as a whole was awesome too. They prob deserved an emmy win that year. They really did refresh the format and picked really great talent. Not a bad one in that bunch! As for an individual episode… I dunno… I can’t pick :)

    Those are my thoughts

  • Whyyawanna

    Season 10 and 11 had a lot of talent, but easily forgettable individuals that no one cares about afterwards,

    that’s not true at all, both the winners those seasons went platinum and there was a moderately successful runner up(Lauren). If nobody cared about them afterwards, they would have flopped after the show and been dropped after the first album. isnt Home 4x platinum? Meanwhile, nobody from Seasons 8 and 9 had a platinum album.

  • justmefornow

    S10 still has 6 Idols signed to their original record deals and 3 of those are about to release their sophomore albums.
    That’s pretty good 2+ years later, IMO.

  • taptap

    Here’s my break-down of the best and worst of Idol.

    The best of Idol was, imo, heavily weighted to the front end: S1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 8. These seasons were the best in terms of exciting tv and diversity of talent. Some of the most enduring Idols came from these seasons (so far, at least).

    The worst seasons were largely weighted toward the last few years, with S9, 10, and 12 as very bad. The only redeeming thing about S11 was PP. He wasn’t an artist that interested me (still isn’t) but there’s no arguing with his success (so far). Of course it may take a few more years before we can tell if any of these guys are going to break out and last. My bet would be on PP, but until his sophomore album is released, it’s almost impossible to say.

    The other seasons were just meh for me, with not much memorable that sticks out. From S6 on, AI suffered the WGWG and country syndromes, to their detriment in most (but not all) cases. From this point on the highlighted contestants (TCOs) no longer stood out from one-another, but started to blend-in instead.

    The sameness of the artists and the song-choices during recent years was mind-numbingly boring (to me). That, imo, is what has made AI uninteresting tv lately. It didn’t help that they started adding in younger and younger contestants who were so inexperienced and uncertain of themselves, and switched up the judging panel several times, with little to no success.

    And speaking of judges, I also think the original panel of Simon, Paula and Randy was the best fit. Combine them with the diversity and level of talent of the contestants, along with the novelty of the show, AI was good tv. If AI ever deserved an Emmy, it would have been in the early years, certainly not in the last four or so.

    I’m not sure they can fix the show any more. The viewing audience is winnowing down to too narrow a demo, which means the contestants will continue to be less diverse and, imo, less experienced and skilled. It remains to be seen if this judging panel can make a difference, but in the end, after 12 seasons, the show is simply old and tired. It had a very good run, though.

  • Whyyawanna

    I actually think the early seasons had the worst talent when you look back at it. Most of the contestants on 1-3 were mediocre with the token front runners carrying the seasons. But of course, they seemed great back then. I would rank 10, 7, 5 as top tier seasons(overall) then 11, 8, 4, and 2 then 12, 9, 6, 3, and 1. Even though 11 had some of the best talent, it still felt less “fun” than 10, 7, and 5.

  • taptap

    We all have different tastes in music, so of course different people can enjoy different seasons of AI, but I’m talking about the after-show results/success of the alums.

    Here are the AI alums that are still making music and touring. They’re still being noticed and talked about in the industry and in Forbes, as well. Most of these artists have expanded beyond the Idol bubble, and several have a significant international following:

    Tier 1:

    Kelly Clarkson (S1)
    Fantasia Barrino (S3)
    JHud (S3)
    Carrie Underwood (S4)
    Chris Daughtry (S4)
    Adam Lambert (S8)
    Phillip Phillips (S11)

    From a pure test of time, PP has yet to prove himself, but I think he will, so I’m including him here.

    The next group of artists have managed to navigate their way through various arms of the entertainment industry, keeping a solid if not substantial presence. They’ve carved out a niche for themselves that will probably support them for many years to come:

    Tier 2:

    Clay Aiken (S2)
    Constantine Maroulis (S4)
    Taylor Hicks (S5)
    Katherine McPhee (S5)
    Kellie Pickler (S5)
    Mandisa (S5)

    Some other alums have a steady presence that’s lower than T2, but very few others have met the same criterion so far, although some may yet in the future. With the exception of 2 names, every one of these alums were showcased in the first half of AI’s life.

    Seasons 4-5 might very well be when the show peaked, considering how many alums have stood out in various areas of the entertainment industry so far.

  • breakdown

    AI was the pioneer and The Voice the beneficiary. Too bad.

  • pj

    Sour grapes from Nigel. I still enjoy him. I like people who don’t always say the appropriate thing. ;-)

  • Miss Blue

    This just isn’t what happened. At all. AI has been nominated several times. It lost. TAR has been widely considered one of the best reality shows ever and it had a long winning streak. Oh well. That’s how it goes. There are TONS of good shows and great actors over the years who have not won an award because a good competitor beat them. No conspiracy, no devious plot.

    It’s almost a travesty Bob Newhart didn’t win until this year. However, the shows he was on lost to other great shows. That’s just how it goes sometimes.

  • taptap

    The sophomore album is the real test, though, unless the alum has expanded into other areas of the entertainment industry. Clay managed to find his place despite the reduction in his album and touring sales. If the alums can’t do that, one way or another, their first album results will be little more than a statistic, and their career will be short. Can the S10 alums succeed? Sure. Have they yet? Not so far as I can see.

    And PP has to show the same, but with his big singles and his presence as an opener of big, well-established acts, both in the USA and internationally, I think he’s very likely to be one of the few in the last four seasons that lasts.

  • Whyyawanna

    How are some of these people on this list, but someone like Scotty isn’t? I disagree with the list.

  • taptap

    Yup. It’s sort of like The Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind both released in 1939. Sad in terms of the Oscar, but someone’s gotta win and someone’s gotta lose in that scenario. They’re both among the best movies ever made, though.

  • taptap

    Because Scotty hasn’t proven himself yet. He had great results with his Freshman album and a single, but so did lots of winners who then fizzled out. He hasn’t released his sophomore album yet, so there’s no repeated success, and he’s having trouble with radio.

    He also clearly has not set himself up to do anything but be a recording and touring artist, so he’s heavily dependent upon the second album and radio.

    He may succeed eventually, but I haven’t seen the evidence of it so far. Lauren, otoh, doesn’t look like she’ll make it to me.

  • LeahKittyS

    I know for Season 10 they submitted the episode where Casey Abrams was saved.

  • Mateja Praznik

    I do think the first 6 seasons were the best. That was the golden era. Then “The Arrangement Idol” and WGWG domination started. Instruments were introduced in season 7, but I think that American Idol needed bigger changes after season 6 and those changes just didn’t happen. The producers didn’t really try to keep it fresh. instead, they let the show stagnate.

    Seasons 7 and 8 were so-so for me overall. Season 7 was just boring and season 8 would be the same if it wasn’t for Adam. But one contestant can’t save the season.

    Season 9 was the worst season ever by a mile and the cast was just atrocious.

    Season 10 was an improvement, but kinda like season 7 … diverse and talented cast, but the country teens were the only ones with a shot to do anything after the show. Technically Haley was the standout, but too niche to make it in the real world. The rest were disposable. That year Jimmy tried to modernize the show by bringing real producers to work with the contestants in the studio, but all that effort turned out to be pretty much pointless and so it was a one-season-only change.

    Season 11 again had only three finalists worth of 5 minutes of my time (Joshua, Jessica and DeAndre), so the show turned for the worse again.

    Season 12 at least had 5 strong girls, so I rate it above seasons 9, 10 and 11. IMO, I would put season 12 on par with seasons 7 and 8, it’s just that the show is so much older now that everything seems more stale.

    I just don’t know, they more or less keep on casting the same types of contestants over and over again and it’s really hard to get excited about anyone.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I agree with Burnett. I loathe the ridicule and humiliation of the contestants on Idol.

  • taptap

    I generally agree with you, but I was making my best/worst assessment based on the post-show results of the alum. That’s why S8 made it on the best list. I’d likely have a slightly different list if I tried to assess the best tv, but that’s so subjective, so I’m not going to try.

    I do think that it’s easier to make the good/bad tv assessment with TV, because it has more elements to contribute toward entertainment, with the judges as important (or more) than the contestants. Some AI fans don’t like that, but I believe it’s why they got an Emmy and AI hasn’t.

  • Whyyawanna

    I think bringing in instruments was smart, it introduced is to types of contestants that wouldn’t have worked before. Angie Miller, Phillip Phillips, Brooke White, Jason Castro, Crystal Bowersox, Kris Allen and others benefited from having instrument because it enhanced their performances. It opened the door to folk singers on the show.

  • Whyyawanna

    Nobody from Season 8 even has a contract anymore.

  • taptap

    But with the exception of PP, you don’t hear much about those other artists. That’s a pretty significant thing, when the entertainment industry is all about visibility and presence. It’s like the old joke ‘if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?’ You can be the best singer or the best guitar player in the world, but if you’re not in demand and no one sees or hears you, it’s all for nothing.

    BTW, Crystal B. is one of the artists I think may find a solid footing on the Tier 2 list eventually, maybe higher if she’s lucky.

  • Cathy Mcguire Kosak

    it really is strange ,how people view things so differently..I watched AI sporadically,, until season 10 w/Scotty McCreery…his voice totally sold me on country music..I think most of us CAN agree, that the Emmy show doesn’t deserve an Emmy…..lol

  • taptap

    Adam fronts for Queen, collabs with Nile Rogers and Avicii, will be on Glee, has been on PLL and might be again this season, tours internationally with his own music and with Queen, and has a BB#1 album and a Grammy nom. Avicci’s singles are hitting in the top 5 worldwide, and Adam is both the vocalist and a writer on one. If his 3rd single off True (LMD) wins a grammy for best song, Adam will be a Grammy winner.

    When you have those credentials, label status is largely irrelevant. Adam will either sign with another label when he’s ready to release his 3rd album, or contract a distributor. His mgmt. and PR firm will do the rest. If Scotty lost his label, though, what else would he have? Their situations are completely different.

  • taptap

    I agree with everything you said. You and I had the exact same experience throughout the 12 seasons.

  • Madilo

    He should not be mad because American Idol produced Super stars Grammy winners period . He should be proud

  • maymirabella

    I am one of the few who loved this season because finally a woman won and a powerhouse, talented, versatile singer. I loved that the top 5 were all females. It was a refreshing and welcome change for me. Plus I admit, I loved , love Candice. It was the format and judges that were just horrid this past season but loved, loved the contestants.

  • LA944

    I think the Voice is really boring. My husband watches it some for a few wks–if it doesn’t interfere with sports. Then, he might tune in for part of the finale. But, he normally will watch a majority of AI–especially during the more interesting seasons.

    I don’t know if AI ever deserved an emmy or not because I don’t watch The Amazing Race which always seemed to win. Not sure why the Voice won other than it’s the “in” thing right now. Back when AI was more popular–reality was more frowned upon–as others have pointed out. Now everybody & his brother has a reality show.

    But, I don’t think of AI as a reality show much anyway. I think programs like AI/Voice/DWTS etc should be in the variety category. Because these singing/dancing shows are essentially variety shows with some viewer input. In fact, I think that is why AI became such a ratings winner in the 1st place. There were no longer family shows such as Ed Sullivan or Carol Burnett that featured music/dance/comedy etc The audience was ready for something like that again

  • Tito Melito

    it’s had to take the Emmy’s too seriously. Modern Family is a good show but 4 Emmy’s is excessive

  • Guest

    For someone who hates the show, you sure do love to talk about it a lot.

  • Krissas

    Well other people still think the show is fun and Seasons 10 and 11 produced some success, so obviously it produced contestants that people liked and found entertaining and didn’t forget about after the show was over.

  • Guest

    At least the idol contestants get to choose their songs, instead of being put into a box and controlled by their coaches. Speaking of which, you think idol has horrid judging? What about the Voice, they never criticize anybody.

  • Guest

    What about on The X Factor?

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Same with The X-Factor.

  • Krissas

    Not the Voice, they poop rainbows!

  • Guest

    Do you like it when they lie to the bad contestants on the Voice, and tell them they are great, even though none of them turned around?

  • taptap

    TV invites experienced (between somewhat and very) artists on the show, and I bet all of them sound good. The judges can’t take all of them though.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    They don’t have the “joke” bad contestants on The Voice, so even if no one turns around, these people aren’t horribly deluded, like the people they ridicule and mock on Idol and X-Factor.

    ETA: The coaches offer suggestions and constructive criticism to help the contestants who do not go through.

  • Savetonight

    The mocking on idol stopped after the Simon days.

  • Cathy Mcguire Kosak

    I believe Scotty’s hometown visit was also nominated that year.

  • suenigma

    Your opinions are interesting, but I don’t see how they relate to which season AI should have won an Emmy for? You said that you based your opinions on how the contestants fared after the show, but again, how does that relate to a quality television experience, which is what the Emmy is awarded for?

    “From S6 on, AI suffered the WGWG and country syndromes, to their detriment in most (but not all) cases.”

    I don’t understand this because Season 6 did not have a true country singer or WGWG in the bunch, and certainly nobody by the top 5 or 6, unlike Season 8, where a WGWG actually won.
    Kris, Adam, Allison were great contestants, but the overall cast was a bit weak that year, IMO. Combined with Kara’s personality
    vacuum, bad show pacing because of the new four judge format, and some really bad cast cuts in the semifinals, and I would say that it was far from being in the running for a major emmy.

    I think that Seasons 1,2,5, 7 and 10
    were the most exciting seasons, because of the
    overall diversity of their casts, but also because of rule changes that made the shows different from their predecessors. WGWGs and the use of instruments may seem boring and overdone now, but at the time it was a welcome change from the classic belters that had been dominating most seasons.

  • suenigma

    Candice and Kree are two of my favourite contestants ever, and it was awesome having five women in the top 5 for a change, but this year was not quality television. IMO.

  • taptap

    I gave my opinion about the entertainment quality of the seasons, then ended with my opinion of why Idol hasn’t won an Emmy. On another post that followed, I gave more specific details, to support the above, but they were contestant-specific and the post was deleted (I’m not sure if we can’t talk about specific contestants or if it was deleted because it was a response to a post that was deleted).

    eta: I’m not sure there were any seasons that were actually Emmy-worthy, but if I had to choose I’d say somewhere in the first 5. The last 4-6 seasons were definitely not, imo, Emmy-worthy. Probably the biggest artists agreed to perform during S6 (KISS and Queen), but this alone isn’t enough, imo, to warrant an Emmy.

    I think because of the way it’s structured, TV is the better entertainment television, while Idol has (at least in the past) provided the most success stories. I do think it changed the landscape of reality tv, and hope it’s acknowledged in a special Emmy somewhere down the line.

  • suenigma

    “…but I was making my best/worst assessment based on the post-show results of the alum. ”

    ” I’d likely have a slightly different list if I tried to assess the best tv, but that’s so subjective, so I’m not going to try.”

  • taptap

    Yes, I gave specifics in the post that was deleted.

  • taptap

    I think Candice and Kree are excellent vocalists, but I don’t think either has a lot of charisma or stage presence. I think it takes a lot of things to make a good live performer. And while I was really getting tired of the wgwg’s, I don’t think the manipulation used in S12 was a good way of dealing with the problem.

  • sdmama

    I am with Nigel, but American Idol did not win for the same reason why Star Wars don’t win much at Academy Awards. Too much of a money maker/block buster, and people start thinking they don’t need any “awards”. Don’t worry Nigel, probably Emmy will recognize you and Simon when you are as old as Bob Newhart as life time achievement, or something like that. Anyway, my 2 cents. These two can cry all the way to the bank for now…

  • Damien Roberts

    I don’t disagree that Idol is regarded as fairly cheesy, but lets be honest…The Voice is more style than substance and relies heavily on its judges. And in its knock-out rounds has contestants sing in a boxing ring.

    So saying Idol didn’t win because of its cheese factor should apply to The Voice in ten fold. That said, Survivor deserved it after two pretty strong seasons.

  • Bluebeat

    The Voice had a better concept that’s why. He’s right though, Idol did change TV and if it didn’t get popular we wouldn’t have X-Factor or The Voice making TV screens in American and world. The downfall with AL was that they kept on featuring these ‘joke auditions’ and some people felt uncomfortable seeing others become national laughingstocks. The Voice on the other hand doesn’t do that and they don’t discriminate either. That’s why it won an Emmy.

  • Kariann Hart

    fuzzywuzzy, when I read your comment, I think about the first 9 seasons. Recently, Idol has been much kinder. Many found Simon to be a downer for the show.

  • Kariann Hart

    This is absolutely true.

  • Kariann Hart

    I also let Nigel know I supported much of what he said. Now, I believe American Idol WILL have a good judging panel who gets along, but I don’t want that to be scripted.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Yes, I agree that Idol has been much kinder in recent years. I don’t miss the harsh ridicule and mocking at all.

  • HKfan

    yet season 8 is the only one I can name the top 10 contestants from, I’m lucky if I remember 2 or 3 from the other seasons.

  • HKfan

    I only started watching Idol in s5, but watched every episode from then on until the Scotty season, and its got worse each year since then.

  • HKfan

    My husband does…he only watched Idol for the bad auditions……..

  • iani

    I don’t recall right now, but is this an award relatively new for the outstanding reality show category? I remember that AI had lost it almost every year in the last 5 years or so to The Amazing Race as well the title for the best host with Ryan losing to Tom Berjeron. This kind of awards have become not only political in the last decades(some are seen on many countries, even live) to say but also they have started to propagate the “shallow over the substance” as good art. I don’t really know if AI was really robbed over the years or not, but I feel like The Voice winning the Emmy as the new best realty show after one and a half year on television more like a victory of the network than the show itself. I don’t think FOX is known/ has a name of or supported as a power-network, if AI would have been on ABC, CBS or NBC I’m pretty sure it might have got an award for the best realty show too.

  • taptap

    The only way we ‘know’ what’s considered ‘good tv’ – besides our own opinion – is by the awarding of an Emmy. That recognition is pretty much the hallmark of tv, as the Oscars are of movies, and the Grammys are of music.

    You can hate an Oscar-winning movie and love something like Predator, but the discussion here revolves around why TV got an Emmy and Idol hasn’t. I can disagree/agree with the TV/Idol Emmy situation, and I can also like/dislike the entertainment of those shows – simultaneously. Human beings are flexible that way.

  • DragonFly

    Obvious we have favorite Idols/seasons but the most accurate indicator may be the tour attendance afterwards. To make audiences, collectively for numerous contestants in a season “show their love (not televised which is an even more honest response)” that to me says success for a particular season. It’s an unsolicited, more accurate opinion from people who watched a season. If a season was entertaining it shows there, & in a strapped economy of late yrs, still buying those tickets said something for a show’s popularity.
    Things may be going downhill, no one can say yet where AI is headed. Changes still need to be made, but I think the selection of “at least what appears to be a more reasonable 3 judges together” is a start to see what remains of Idol & if it can renew itself.. I have strong objections to how the show is run as I think may have happened to other viewers pulling away, but loved the contestant’s journeys (overshadowing judges)– in previous yrs. Emmys, I agree w/others have many influences & agendas—nice to get 1 for bragging rights but not always a true indicator. AI has always pulled enough weight in tv interest but there is now competition, “the phoney, glittery “showy” kind it appears (imo).