Monday Morning Mediabase Update – Up Until Midnight 11/29/09

Anticipating the Questions:

Carrie’s “Temporary Home” goes for adds in two weeks and has 206 spins (Country: 189, CMT:17)

Adam’s “Whataya Want For Me” went for adds last week and got 366 spins last week (HAC 84, Pop: 280)

Daughtry’s ‘Life After You’  went for adds three weeks ago and had 2542 spins last week (HAC:1272, Pop: 1232, Alt: 27, MTV2: 3).

Jason’s “Let’s Just Fall in Love Again” was re-sent for adds three weeks ago. It had 300 spins last week (HAC:90, Pop:210).

Adam’s “For Your Entertainment” went for adds four weeks ago and received 373 spins last week (HAC: 139, Pop:234)

Allison’s “Friday, I’ll Be Over You” went for adds five weeks ago. It received 125 spins last week (HAC:11, Pop:114)).

Spin totals are posted when songs are listed for adds or for 4 weeks post add (or post release for songs with no add date). I’ve made an exception this week for Allison’s single because she is releasing her album this week.

Yay Ruben! Yay Archie!

Top 40 (unpublished chart)

85 62 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 265 67 198 3.731
64 66 JASON CASTRO Let’s Just Fall In Love Again 198 241 -43 0.356
66 67 ADAM LAMBERT For Your Entertainment 195 201 -6 0.432
73 77 ALLISON IRAHETA Friday I’ll Be Over U 104 104 0 0.102

Looks like FYE is dead on radio (or was put out of its misery early) and RCA has moved on to WWFM with all deliberate speed. I’m sure that’s not where Jive wanted Allison to be on radio the day before her album is released. Although who knows what’s going on this year.

When is WWFM ever gonna get any spins? It is BAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR a better and more radio-friendly song that FYE.

It just seems odd to me that, if in fact Adam has the #2 album in the country this week, he is barely getting on the radio. Homophobia?

Is David Cook “off the charts” now, because I still hear a song or two when I visit the Casino and they are playing a SiriusXM station?

And has any idol ever played on a rock station, much less charted?

I also find it amusing that Daughtry is charting on pop. So much for his “rock” cred.

jpfan
11/30/2009 at 9:08 am

Would you mind listing Kris’ audience impressions on top 40. Thanks.

Is David Cook ‘off the charts’  now, because I still hear a song or two when I visit the Casino and they are playing a SiriusXM station?

David Cook is still getting plenty of radio play. All of his singles went recurrent and don’t show up on regular charts.

Tess, I think all of Cookie’s singles are recurrent now. Kristen could verify that.

Whoa – I so did not know that WWFM officially went for adds last week – I guess there was too much else going on in Adam-land last week – lol.

I really really hope WWFM takes off on radio – it really deserves it, and is an awesome song! Hasn’t it been added by three of the biggest stations in the country so far? (2 NYC and 1 LA?)

I don’t get what happened with FYE, though I maintain that that was never going to be heavily pushed to radio anyways, and just became the de facto first single after the AMA gig was set up.

As for FYE’s popularity, yeah, a lot of people didn’t like it on the AMAs, though I’m tempted to believe that it was mainly the nature of the performance that then turned people off the song – if his performance hadn’t been so, er, controversial, it would probably not have been so vilified. Just some thoughts.

POP:
38 33 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 1442 1173 269 8.452

It looks like LLWD will enter the Top 30 sometime next week. And the increased radio play is being reflected in much better placement on iTunes.

WWFM has great a.i. for a song in the 60s because of the support from big markets: Z100 and Los Angeles.

Daughtry is so currently not rock. His second album, and I am a fan, is weak, imo. Let’s not get back into the Adam and homophobia discussion. That is still going on in yesterday’s headlines. I am sure we can come up with other things to talk about, right? LOL!
I am sorry that Jason’s song is not doing better. It’s really good. I sort of think its a timing thing in away. Its so sweet and breezy. It would have made a better Spring or summer release IMO.
I think Allison will be fine. Her single hasn’t gotten promo until probably now and also there are far stronger singles on her album then the kinda childish and silly FIBOY.

WWFM picked up 3 adds already today, Modesto CA, St. Louis, & Lafayette, LA.

When is WWFM ever gonna get any spins? It is BAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR a better and more radio-friendly song that FYE.

It just seems odd to me that, if in fact Adam has the #2 album in the country this week, he is barely getting on the radio. Homophobia?

It’s doing fine for a new song. Are you even serious with the homophobia question? This is how new songs, especially new songs by non-established artists (which Adam is), progress on the radio.

Kris had a really great post-Thanksgiving weekend, with major increases in spins on both pop and HAC. Hopefully, he’ll get more adds today, and keep moving up (although moving up the HAC chart gets really hard once you hit Top 20).

Well, Kris’s LLWD appears to be going in the right direction. I hope that Adam will be able to get the same kind of traction from WWFM. After all of the initial tv appearances are over, that’s what you need to sustain your sales.

Allison’s radio play is looking pretty sad right now. And, I haven’t noticed all that much in the way of other promotion for her. I suspect her first week sales are going to be pretty dismal, and that’s disappointing to me.

POP:
38 33 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying 1442 1173 269 8.452

Anytime your numbers move up its a good sign. And 40 more spins a day from last week looks pretty good.

So when a song is recurrent….it no longer has its numbers counted for charting purposes and radio just plays it ’cause peeps like it, right?

Wow Kelly. Already Gone is still going strong!

If RCA hadn’t wasted time and effort on FYE, WWFM would be doing much better. It already has great radio support and just needs some adds. But the charts will be affected by Xmas so it may take a bit longer for it to move up. It’s probably already in the 50s (or even higher) based on a.i.

So when a song is recurrent’ ¦.it no longer has its numbers counted for charting purposes and radio just plays it ’cause peeps like it, right?

Yes. It’s a way to make room for newer songs on the chart.

Hey- what about numbers for music video downloads or broadcasts on MTV/VH1?
Do we have statistics for those?
Has Adam’s FYE video been released to the T.V. networks and/or itunes already?

Yes, YAY ARCHIE! His Christmas album is AMAZING ~ especially Pat-A-Pan! So many wonderful songs on his Pop album too that went unnoticed by radio, but not by fans! His tours and “VIP meet & greets” are sellouts everywhere he goes!

Good on Kris and fingers crossed for Adam and Allison. I really don’t understand the pop music business so won’t even try.

Tess, yes, the numbers for recurrents are no longer counted for charting. A song has to meet a specific set of criteria in order to even go recurrent however, and the rules differ by format. A song has to chart on a given format above a certain level for a long enough time. Songs that don’t meet the criteria to go recurrent on a format tend not to get played too much once they drop off the chart; songs that go recurrent can get substantial play for a long time. There is actual a separate recurrent chart for each format. I know that even in recurrency, for instance, TOML charted #1 for a long time on that separate chart, then even longer at #3. Many recurrent songs would rank pretty high overall on the charts still had they not been taken off the charts for recurrency. Ladymadonna has the more complete info on the rules for recurrency in each format.

LLWD is now picking up close to 500 spins a week and is on a major roll. Should be Top 30 this week – lots of songs are dropping like a rock above him with only a couple below him increasing more quickly. A couple of songs are dropping at the rate of 800-900 spins per week, and with his close to 300 spincrease, that’s a swing of 1100-1200 spins. He’ll easily be Top 30 this week. He’s almost ready to start moving up again on HAC and has the second strongest bullet in the Top 20 on HAC.

As of this morning’s Mediabase reports, he’s spinning on 84 Pop stations and 77 HAC stations. He’s in a strong position for the holiday freeze.

And has any idol ever played on a rock station, much less charted?

David Cook’s “Bar-Ba-Sol” was released to Active Rock at the same time “Come Back to Me” was released to HAC/AC. BBS did not chart. It was an experiment; Active Rock stations do not like American Idol.

Deleted – duplicate somehow posted.

If RCA hadn’t wasted time and effort on FYE, WWFM would be doing much better.

Yeah, but I called that one wrong too. I thought FYE was a really good song. I think it’s a fun listen, so I thought it would do okay on radio. But, I am notoriously out of step with America on these things – so I should have known it would fail LOL.

I do think WWFM is the better song though, and so far his tv performances of it have been pretty stellar. So, maybe that one will catch on, especially since it seems that the dj’s in the bigger markets are willing to play it. (Which is always a huge hurdle for the AI kids anyway).

As an example, FolkFan did some figures on how a couple of recurrent songs would be charting if there were no recurrency rules. Come Back to Me would be #34 on the Hot AC charts as of last Sunday if it had not gone recurrent. This is a 7 month old song. Time of My Life would be #27 on AC, even with the rash of Christmas airplay, without recurrency rules.

Mary102…I’m with you on your thoughts for what happen to FYE’s popularity…hope Adam took the after math of the performance as a learning experience and does not repeat it….for the sake of his very promising carrer….

LLWD goes well with all the New Year’s resolutions stuff so I could see that giving the song a boost.It could use some high profile TV gig – a big football game would help alot.

I think Allison’s team should learn from Adam’s team and go for a better second single. Heck- almost all of the other songs on her album are better then “Friday”, which just sounds like Avril&Kelly. Her voice is so rich and soulful, and we got none of that on “Friday”.

And I’ll repeat my question (Kristen- maybe you know?)- What about music video statistics?

Actually, marg, I think a decent chunk of AL’s sales are because of the controversy around the fye song. Otherwise, why would fye have risen from the 70′s to the upper 20′s in iTunes sales after the performance? None of his other songs are very high up. WWFM is at #156 on iTunes after lots of radio play on mostly 3 big stations, plus multiple national-level performances. I suspect he has every incentive to go that direction again.

As far as rock play for Idols, Daughtry did have more than one song sent to rock, and at least one charted, from his first album. I don’t have the details, but it didn’t chart terribly high up. I don’t think they’ve tried a rock release from album #2.

David Cook is still getting plenty of radio play. All of his singles went recurrent and don’t show up on regular charts.

Yes. Going recurrent simply means the songs are removed from the current airplay charts (in order to keep things fresh and allow new songs to chart). It doesn’t mean radio stops playing them. In many cases recurrent songs continue to get more airplay than many of those currently charting. Here’s a run-down of Cook’s airplay last week, with all three mainstream singles in recurrency:

TOML: 825 spins
(AC=306, HAC=288, CHR=205, Adult Hits=26)

LO: 1045 spins
(HAC=610, CHR=171, AC=114, Radio Disney=102, Adult Hits=48)

CBTM: 1417 spins
(HAC=1095, AC=152, CHR=120, Adult Hits=44, Rock=5, Radio Disney=1)

His total spincount is down a good bit this week as the Christmas influx ate 376 of the Rainbow’s spins. Last week that song alone got 1201 spins, even as a recurrent.

Ladymadonna has the more complete info on the rules for recurrency in each format.

Mediabase recurrency rules*:

Top 40: Songs below No. 20 are removed after 20 weeks.

Rhythmic: Songs below No. 20 are removed after 20 weeks.

Urban: Songs below No. 20 are removed after 20 weeks.

Urban AC: Songs below No. 15 are removed after 20 weeks (or) Songs below No. 10 are removed after 52 weeks.

Country: Songs trending down in spins and points for three consecutive weeks below No. 1 are removed.

AC: Songs below No. 5 are removed after 40 weeks (or) Songs below No. 10 are removed after 30 weeks (or) Songs below No. 5 are removed after 20 weeks.

Hot AC: Songs below No. 10 are removed after 30 weeks OR Songs below No. 15 are removed after 20 weeks

Active Rock: Songs below No. 20 are removed after 20 weeks.

Alternative: Songs below No. 20 are removed after 20 weeks.

Triple A: Songs below No. 15 are removed after 20 weeks.

Smooth Jazz: Songs below No. 15 are removed after 20 weeks.

Christian: Songs below No. 15 are removed after 20 weeks.

All Latin: Songs below No. 15 are removed after 20 weeks.

All Canada: Songs below No. 15 are removed after 20 weeks.

* Note that Billboard, which uses NielsenBDS for airplay tracking, has slightly different recurrency guidelines.

I think that there is a “story” behind the whole FYE radio debacle that we will never know. It was “abandoned” very quickly, there were the rumors that WWFM was the first single, RCA was clearly ready to VERY quickly turn to WWFM (which leads me to suspect that they were not convinced radio/radio listeners would go for FYE as a single), Adam and his band were ready and rehearsed to sing WWFM on TV gigs. Was there a turf was between 19 and RCA over the first single? Did they just throw FYE out there for AMA purposes and figured if people liked it, great, but if not they were ready to go with the intended first single? Did everyone think FYE was the best first single, but then RCA got extremely negative feedback from radio PDs? FWIW the video is great and really enhances the song.

Thanks for the numbers ladyM and Kirsten. It’s nice to see Archie charting again. Oh and don’t get me started on FIBOU. lol After I heard the other tracks from the album, that one just sticks out very badly from the rest.

It’s great to see LLWD finally moving up again. Hopefully that will send album sales for Kris in the right direction.

Already Gone is a huge hit for Kelly that’s for sure!

It doesn’t mean radio stops playing them. In many cases recurrent songs continue to get more airplay than many of those currently charting.

This is a big reason that record labels and recording artists claim that radio is too “conservative” in the business sense.

In many cases, once a radio station finds that a song “works” for them — i.e., appeals to listeners and thus guarantees more ears for their advertising — they tend to want to play it a lot *forever* and when they do that it leaves many fewer spots open to introduce new songs and new artists, as musicians and record labels would like.

And, some argue, when they *do* pick up a new song or artist it tends to be one that is very very similar to the songs and artists they’re playing already — for the same reason: if the current formula is selling, why change it? — making it especially hard to break in and slow going if your artist or song is a bit different from the songs in the top 10.

This is a place where radio stations’ perceived financial interests tend to be completely at odds with musicians’ and record labels’ financial interests. Radio pretty much wins this battle, because they have all the power here.

The sad part about recurrent radio spins (and all radio spins for that matter) is that the artist doesn’t get a cent for any of them….only the songwriter. And since Cookie didn’t have a hand in any of these songs he is shit out of luck…sad.

Hopefully these spins are still keeping people interested in buying the album. 1000 albums a week at (maybe) a couple of bucks for the Artist is some nice “petty cash”.

That does bring up a thought….maybe the record label does have some kind of “obligation” to its songwriters…and the release of their tunes being released rather than “better” stuff penned by the Artist may be behind why certain songs get released to radio and others don’t. Just a thought!

WWFM is such a better song than FYE for a number of reasons:

1. WWFM has a hook, FYE does not.
2. WWFM builds to an emotional climax, FYE does not.
3. Adam “sounds” like Adam on WWFM, not like an over-processed robot on FYE.
4. “Feel good” music is hot during these down times (witness SuBo) and blatantly sexual music, not so much. Lady Gaga is the exception, but i consider her music more playful and filled with innuendo that blatantly sexual. Face it, bondage themes just aren’t widely popular.
5. WWFM has excellent, catchy chorus, FYE, no.
6. Tweens can relate to WWFM because it talks about trust and acceptance. FYE, not so much – far too aggressively sexual for that group.

I could go on, but I think that FYE can’t fade fast enough and WWFM could be major hit.

It’s great to see LLWD finally moving up again. Hopefully that will send album sales for Kris in the right direction.

It’s not “finally moving up again.” It’s been moving up pretty steadily all along. It had, I think, one somewhat stagnant week, which happens. At any rate, it did see some really big spin increases over the holiday weekend (big increases for the song and relative to other songs on the chart), so it really does seem to have some good momentum going into the Christmas freeze. It’s also up again on iTunes.

It just seems odd to me that, if in fact Adam has the #2 album in the country this week, he is barely getting on the radio. Homophobia?

More like RCA’s strategy to focus on Adam the person, more than Adam’s music. It’s a move that’s resulting in sales now, but they really need to put the focus on the music, because even though AI fans tune out after the first week’s sales numbers are posted, without airplay, Adam won’t be selling anything. Right now, his spins for WWFM are due to 11 stations and mainly the Open House Party. RCA did buy off the two biggest stations in the country, but now it’s time to back up the hype with some actual substance.

Yeah, but I called that one wrong too. I thought FYE was a really good song. I think it’s a fun listen, so I thought it would do okay on radio. But, I am notoriously out of step with America on these things ‘“ so I should have known it would fail LOL.

Hmm – well, I maintain that FYE would have been fine if it had been released by Britney – I think, judging by how conservative radio is with picking up anything new, that a song like that sung by Adam was indeed what hurt it a lot in terms of getting more spins off the bat. That, coupled with no real radio promo push from RCA, which I believe was quite deliberate. And I don’t really want to go into any homophobia discussion either, but I really wouldn’t be surprised if a bit of that played in, at least in terms of radio being more reluctant to try anything new. Way too many signs last week that some parts of America are really freaked out about Adam’s sexuality, paired with FYE’s blatantly sexual nature.

I’m also really really interested in seeing FYE the mv – that vid is so hot! I will immediately buy it from itunes, and want to see it on tv, damn it

And I’ll repeat my question (Kristen- maybe you know?)- What about music video statistics?

Mediabase does track music video airplay. Depending on what channel a video is played on, it is detected as a spin in a designated airplay format:

VH1 = HAC
MTV = CHR
MTV2 = Rhythmic
BET = Urban
CMT = Country
FUSE = ALT Rock
Much Music = Canada Top 40

So for instance, Kris’s LLWD video was aired 13 times on VH1 last week, so that contributed 13 spins to his HAC ranking.

And has any idol ever played on a rock station, much less charted?

Well, Daughtry’s new single is getting some spins on Alternative Rock, right now.

They had better luck with their first album. “It’s Not Over” “Crashed” and “What I Want” were the most successful on Rock IIRC.

“As far as rock play for Idols, Daughtry did have more than one song sent to rock, and at least one charted, from his first album. I don’t have the details, but it didn’t chart terribly high up. I don’t think they’ve tried a rock release from album #2.”

Three of his singles hit rock radio from the first album. ‘It’s Not Over’ went to #5, ‘What I Want’ went to #2, and ‘Crashed’ went to #24.

Cook also released ‘Come Back To Me’ to rock radio but it didn’t chart. As far as I know they are the only 2 idols who ever tried to gain any traction on rock radio.

Nothing from Daughtry’s 2nd album has been released for the rock format yet, but I’m hopeful they will let ‘You Don’t Belong To Me’ have a shot – I think that song would be a winner on rock radio.

Mediabase does track music video airplay, and depending on what channel a video is played on, it is detected as a spin in a designated airplay format:

Yep. And as you can see from the QuickCut data I posted for Carrie and Daughtry, they are receiving spins on CMT and MTV respectively.

maybe the record label does have some kind of ‘obligation’  to its songwriters’ ¦and the release of their tunes being released rather than ‘better’  stuff penned by the Artist may be behind why certain songs get released to radio and others don’t.

I hate to say it, but that does make a lot of sense to me. Yes, it’s a shame that one of DC’s penned songs didn’t get released to radio since all 3 have gone recurrent. It would have been nice if the 2nd major label single (after LO) had been a song he had written so that he could have gotten the compensation he deserved for all of his hard work for the album. Labels are all about the almighty dollar of course.

A few omments about FYE and WWFM:

I completely agree, mmb. I don’t think FYE was a good choice, I think RCA realized this, and quickly moved to WWFM. FYE was a good tie in to the AMAs, it seemed, but it didn’t work out that way, despite huge sales for the album (220K is terrific). The song doesn’t work well in performance, either, for the most part, so WWFM was chosen for Letterman, CBS Early Show (along with Music Again, NOT WWFM), and got played 3x on the syndicated show Open House Party, a syndicated show, with hundreds of calls for it (and Adam was interviewed, albeit briefly; this is the 3rd week WWFM was played, and FYE wasn’t at all). I predict it getting played tomorrow on Ellen’s show. It’s very radio friendly and it’s written by Pink which, frankly, won’t hurt its success. I think it’s a great song, one of my favorites on the album, and it seems to have a lot of meaning for Adam, as he has explained.

I liken this to Adam’s weeks on Idol. RoF wasn’t a popular choice, so he went with ToMT, which got him back on track, so to speak (tho I loved RoF). I think FYE will do well in clubs and abroad, but just didn’t here, for a number of reasons. I expect WWFM to crack Top 10, but who knows? More importantly, the FYE album has sold like crazy, and a single just helps with sales, so the single didn’t hurt it, ultimately.

Hope LLWD moves up, and it’s great that Already Gone did so well for Kelly, as it’s my favorite song on her latest album. And I agree: FIBOU is not a great song for Allison, and it’s not doing well, which could be in part w/ the promotion but also with the song itself. There are others that showcase her voice better, and maybe Jive will release another. And like mr said, I am impressed w/ RCA for getting WWFM out so quickly.

laterz

Cook also released ‘Come Back To Me’ to rock radio but it didn’t chart.

No, CBTM was sent to CHR and HAC, but not Rock. Both Light On and Bar-Ba-Sol were sent to Active and Mainstream rock. Both received adds and spins there, but neither got far enough to chart.

I posted this yesterday in the headlines thread, and you can take it with a hrain of salt since it’s well established I’m not really an Adam fan.

I think that RCA/19 made a mistake in releasing FYE as Adam’s lead single. It was not well accepted by those in charge at radio. (To me, the beat at least, reminds me of Britney’s Womanizer.) Once they realized radio wasn’t taking to FYE/Adam they moved to release WWFM. The problem that I think WWFM seems to have at the moment is that radion didn’t like Adam’s first release and they aren’t sure how to feel about his second release. Admittedly the second song is already getting a much more positive reaction, but I do think this has a hge effect on Adam’s overall situation with radio.

As an aside, to the person who abve said that Adam and his band expected it and that’s why they were ready with WWFM so quickly, the only reason I disagree with that is I would hope his band had been working with him on all the songs from his album. In this case, they just were forced into putting one of those songs out there as a single much sooner then might have been initially anticipated.

Yay! My favorite thread is open.

FIBOU does stick out like a sore thumb from the rest of Allison’s album, but I do think it’s a great pop radio song. I think (hope) it will pick up after the holidays.

LLWD seems to be hitting its stride. That’s great news for Kris. I really hope this kicks into high gear for January/February, when hell need it most.

SpencerJ, I thought FYE would do fine too. I didn’t think it was OMG great!, but I thought it would at least get into the top 40. So you are not the only one. But I do think WWFM is a LOT better, so hopefully it will move up pretty fast come January.

It’s very early, but I’m seeing 2 adds for LLWD so far today, both auto adds (1 Top 40, 1 Hot AC, both in Top 50 markets), 3 adds for WWFM, all auto adds (2 Top 40, 1 Hot AC, with the Hot AC being a Top 20 Market) (it also got 2 adds in Canada), zero new adds for FYE and zero for FIBOU.

Hopefully with her album dropping Allison with get a bunch of adds tomorrow.

It just seems odd to me that, if in fact Adam has the #2 album in the country this week, he is barely getting on the radio. Homophobia?

If you follow that argument that radio would obligated to play Adam, because of his album sales, they also would have to play Susan Boyle.

I can’t edit my thread above.

I don’t think there was an obligation to other songwriters re: Cook’s album. RCA spent whole lot of money test marketing Declaration and Lie along with CBTM. I really think CBTM’s data came back the best… or at least the best on HAC, his core format.

It’s very early, but I’m seeing 2 adds for LLWD so far today, both auto adds (1 Top 40, 1 Hot AC, both in Top 50 markets), 3 adds for WWFM, all auto adds (2 Top 40, 1 Hot AC, with the Hot AC being a Top 20 Market) (it also got 2 adds in Canada), zero new adds for FYE and zero for FIBOU.

Hopefully with her album dropping Allison with get a bunch of adds tomorrow.

Well, bummer for Allison.

Good news for the guys, though, it looks like.

Here’s hoping Allison gets some pickups tomorrow.

I got a question is it possibly for a song not to sell well but still be top 10 HAC, POP, AC. or is ranking to do with spins and sales or are those two separate charts?

Hmm ‘“ well, I maintain that FYE would have been fine if it had been released by Britney ‘“ I think, judging by how conservative radio is with picking up anything new, that a song like that sung by Adam was indeed what hurt it a lot in terms of getting more spins off the bat. That, coupled with no real radio promo push from RCA, which I believe was quite deliberate.

I totally agree with you, Mary102. What’s more, I’m not writing the song’s obituary yet. I’ll be interested to see what happens if the mv gets some traction.

Actually, marg, I think a decent chunk of AL’s sales are because of the controversy around the fye song. Otherwise, why would fye have risen from the 70′s to the upper 20′s in iTunes sales after the performance?

Hmm – then how do you explain Adam’s album sales shooting up Amazon so high RIGHT after it was available for pre-sale, plus having the highest Amazon pre-sale of any idol ever? I think Adam was much more of an “album” artist to many fans, and album sales have been very strong to reflect that, well before the AMAs. I do, however, agree that the single, and even some album sales, were helped by the controversy. Though it’s hard to know for sure what the net effect was – since I know he lost some more conservative fans based on the AMAs too.

More like RCA’s strategy to focus on Adam the person, more than Adam’s music.

Uh, well, I think that last week was a perfect media storm for Adam – it got him attention and in the spotlight, at first for bad reasons, but then, when used properly by him and his team, ultimately proved beneficial and much more positive (in terms of gaining more sympathy after the GMA cancellation, his point about gender inequality, etc.) And then, I think he worked the “music” angle perfectly too. He showed his amazing versatility in that short amount of time – with the OTT side on display at the AMAs, and the much more subdued, brilliant vocalist side at the other appearances.

The focus is still very much on the music, too – but there’s a lot to Adam, and working both angles is really key toward being a big artist with sustaining power. Think of Gaga – she has brilliantly branded herself as well, and is about way more than just the music.

I think that there is a ‘story’  behind the whole FYE radio debacle that we will never know.

mmb, I totally agree. I believe the story may be that WWFM was the first legit single (hence the leak, the rumor, etc.), but the AMA gig came up (maybe RCA tried to get it but didn’t know if it would pan out), and knew Adam would need/want to make a splash, and that FYE was the better song for it (Adam talked about how FYE is so sexual, and how he acts out the songs as they are, so he probably also pushed to have that be the “performance” song). It also explains why next to no radio push was made for FYE, but it could still be billed as the “first single to be premiered at the AMAs”.

I guess this always confuses me. Kris is doing well on the radio with LLWD but can’t seem to sell his album. Adam did well with his album but can’t seem to get radio play so is not doing well with his singles. The fact that the albums have the songs on them I’m confused as to why the fans are willing to buy KA’s single but not his album and vice versa with Adam

Going recurrent simply means the songs are removed from the current airplay charts (in order to keep things fresh and allow new songs to chart).

Or to put it unkindly, if they don’t do it, people would see that the charts are slow-moving and boring.

I’m wondering if US charts are the odd one out when compared to the rest of the world. Just from casual observation, the British charts appear to move faster and therefore there isn’t the need for all the fancy manipulation in BB and mediabase charts. Some of the rules they have in the BB sales charts are just weird. I’m not really sure why things move slower in the American charts, although the size of the country might be one reason, also the different structure of TV and radio stations – for example the dominant position of BBC TV and radio means that there isn’t such a big lag in time in the way songs get played by different stations (if a song get played, it gets played all over the country in a relatively short time span). In the US it looks more like a slow ripple across the country the way songs get picked up, and a song that gets played in New York may not be played in Los Angeles. What is it like in other countries, Canada for instance?

DanielB, I’m pretty sure CBTM was not sent to rock; it would not have fit there. Bar-Ba-Sol was sent to mainstream rock, where it got next to no spins, but it got a smattering of decent spins on alternative, where it was not sent. It never charted.

on the iTunes chart this morning (if there are multiple versions of same song, I’m just listing the highest ranked one):

FYE (#32 overall, #21 pop)
LLWD (#40 overall, #25 pop)
WWFM (#157 overall, #63 pop)
FIBOU (#931 overall, #224 pop)

Glad to see Kris moving up slow and steady. Keep at it! Good for Archie too.

I think that there is a ‘story’  behind the whole FYE radio debacle that we will never know.

I agree there’s a story there, but what we need is for someone like Slezak to simply ask Adam. I have a feeling if someone asked Adam a direct question, he’d spill the beans.

FIBOU (#931 overall, #224 pop)

Oh, geez. Poor Allison. … Glad she’s got years to come into her own, because this isn’t starting out too well. She’s got such incredible potential, in my opinion.

Going recurrent simply means the songs are removed from the current airplay charts (in order to keep things fresh and allow new songs to chart).

Or to put it unkindly, if they don’t do it, people would see that the charts are slow-moving and boring.

I’d say that’s not putting it unkindly, just accurately.

Ouch about FIBOU’s Itunes placement (#931 overall??)! I had no idea it was that low. That’s depressing coming a day before her album release.

RCA did buy off the two biggest stations in the country,

And you know this, how? It has repeatedly been discussed on this thread that you can not “buy off” radio stations. You can agree to do these Jingle Bell Ball concerts, though -which has been explained as a way to get around the payola restrictions. So if anyone is “buying their spins and adds”, it would be Kris.

I agree there’s a story there, but what we need is for someone like Slezak to simply ask Adam. I have a feeling if someone asked Adam a direct question, he’d spill the beans.

Oh, good call Lol – can we get Ellen to ask him?

Dhunken, a song can indeed do well on the various format charts without selling well. However, the Billboard ranks include elements of both airplay, sales, and streaming, so a song would have to really be strong in one of the first two to overcome a big deficit in the other. I have no idea of the formula weightings.

Mary102, you answered your own question. His album shot up, as many albums with pre-orders do, on the basis of the pre-orders finally registering as people do their downloads. Those pre-orders don’t count until that point, at least not formally. This is why pre-orders show on the front iTunes page but not on the RSS feed, because they are not quite ‘real’ until the download happens. Then the album shoots up based on pre-orders alone. His album sales are a combination of pre-orders and AMA reaction. FYE is still the only song that shot up after AMA, and it would be impossible to separate the pre-order effect from the AMA effect on the albums, as the two occurred at about the same time. However, the album is dropping and FYE the song is not dropping as much. I think the AMA controversy boosted sales of both the album and song.

I got a question is it possibly for a song not to sell well but still be top 10 HAC, POP, AC. or is ranking to do with spins and sales or are those two separate charts?

Well, the mediabase charts here are all radio. So it is at least theoretically possible to chart very high and not sell. … And I think you can definitely chart *pretty* high and still sell pretty badly. If you’re charting way at the top so many people are probably hearing you on radio that they’ll be hypnotized into buying your song or your album, though, I’d think. Can’t imagine being a top 10 song somewhere and not having fairly hot sales.

But then other charts, like the Billboard Hot 100 and such, combine radio play and sales (plus streaming). And it’s completely possible to get onto those charts based almost entirely on sales, for example — FYE the single did that a while ago.

Yes and no, in other words.

Tiger92, big radio interviews are viewed by some as another means of accepted payola, besides the Jingle Balls. The major stations playing WWFM so far got interviews.

Another note on the recurrency thing. Top 40 tends to be the fastest-moving format, adding songs quickly, playing them like crazy, then dropping them quickly. You won’t see much recurrent play there at all. Hot AC seems, off the top of my head, to be moderate in this. They add songs more slowly and they play recurrents, but not very many. Those they like can be played a decent amount and a long time. AC is chock full of recurrents and moves at a glacial pace.

Thanks Lucy and Indymuse for answering my question.

And it’s completely possible to get onto those charts based almost entirely on sales, for example ‘” FYE the single did that a while ago.

It did? I thought that was TfM – not FYE that did that.

Am I the only one here who LOVES FIBOU??? I really do

Talk about an unknown plan….Allison is the ultimate in unknown. Her label has spent some money….good writers, good album cover, a video and yet the typical “tracking” devices we use don’t show her anywhere. No media buzz, no radio buzz, no I-tunes stuff, no interest in advance sales. I don’t know if she even has anykind of organized fan base that would help move her along.

And who is she being marketed towards? No Disney mash-up like Archie…and, even though her voice is steller, she still seems pretty teenish as a person to be taken real serious by an older crowd. And what about marketing her into the spanish market…a 2 second fly over and then nothing.

This is going to be very interesting, as an outsider, to watch what happens to her and her career. I’m going to set aside any AI stuff with her ’cause I see little if any fan base, and look at her as a real “new Artist” and see how all of this really works in the real world.

I think of Kelly when I think of a song or two that were HUGE on radio but didn’t sell in proportion. I think IDNHU was like that, if I recall. Just thought someone might want an example. It’s not that these songs didn’t sell, but the sales were out of proportion small compared to the massive airplay they received.

And it’s completely possible to get onto those charts based almost entirely on sales, for example ‘” FYE the single did that a while ago.

It did? I thought that was TfM ‘“ not FYE that did that.

Actually, they both did, as I recall!

It was a brief appearance, because you generally won’t get long-term Hot 100 without airplay, but both songs did make it.

Tiger92, big radio interviews are viewed by some as another means of accepted payola, besides the Jingle Balls. The major stations playing WWFM so far got interviews.

Sometimes. I just read on this blog recently that Cook did interviews at some stations that never played his songs. (They might play it once or twice that day and that’s it.) If the interview/airplay spins trade-off was a sure thing, wouldn’t people like Allison or Jason C. be doing 10 interviews a day? I don’t think getting played on the radio is as simple as that.

mmb
11/30/2009 at 10:45 am
Am I the only one here who LOVES FIBOU??? I really do

Nope. I think it’s a blast, and I positively lurve the video. I keep waiting for whatsername to pop out of the backdrop and start singing “Hey Mickey.”

Tiger92, big radio interviews are viewed by some as another means of accepted payola, besides the Jingle Balls. The major stations playing WWFM so far got interviews.

And Kris did the same (how much were we bemoaning in the early days of LLWD that Z100 was the only station spinning LLWD, right after the interview, etc. and no other station was spinning or adding it yet.) They all do it. WWFM is hardly the only one. And so far, I’ve still seen WAY less Adam/radio interaction than Kris/radio interaction (no Adam concert tie-ins for one).

I don’t think getting played on the radio is as simple as that.

No, it’s not. But giving an interview helps to grease the wheels.

Just to be clear: This isn’t a new theory being trotted out today to discredit a single Idol. We’ve been discussing this for years (and certainly since LLWD was released). It’s simply the way radio works and no label is more noble than the others. Although, some are better at it than others.

RCA did buy off the two biggest stations in the country,

And you know this, how? It has repeatedly been discussed on this thread that you can not ‘buy off’  radio stations. You can agree to do these Jingle Bell Ball concerts, though -which has been explained as a way to get around the payola restrictions. So if anyone is ‘buying their spins and adds’ , it would be Kris.

I never said that what RCA is doing is illegal or wrong, or that it’s any different from what Jive did with Z100, in fact, it’s the same thing, and what labels have to do to help their artists. I know that it came off sounding snarky, but the fact is that RCA has exchanged favors with Z, KIIS, and probably even with Open House Party to get them to play WWFM. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s just a fact. The bigger question is will this move pay off by getting other stations to play the song. It worked for Jive with Kris. BTW, I think Jive’s big deal was with Z100, and paid off weeks ago, and the movement that we have seen from LLWD since has more to do with the reception that the song has gotten at the stations that it is on, and not with Jive promising stations anything.

I REALLY don’t like FIBOU.
I think the lyrics are completely boring, the voice does not sound like Allison and the melody is ok, but completely unoriginal.
Not that FYE was MUCH better, but just a little- at least the lyrics had a mischeivious double meaning and Adam’s voice, at certain points, shines through.
Anyway- I am in real awe of Allison’s talent, and from what I’ve heard from the rest of her album (haven’t heard everything yet)- there are songs that are really much better…
Don’t give up on that girl yet.

And who is she being marketed towards? No Disney mash-up like Archie’ ¦and, even though her voice is steller, she still seems pretty teenish as a person to be taken real serious by an older crowd. And what about marketing her into the spanish market’ ¦a 2 second fly over and then nothing.

I think this is the big issue with Allison, and it is what made me so uncertain about how she would do after being signed to a label. She sings in an old school style, with an old school BIG voice, but she is clearly a kid, with the personality of a kid etc. All her biggest hits on AI, though, were very old fashioned, which made finding a modern niche for her very difficult imo.

It seems wise to either market her as a younger Kelly Clarkson, kinda edgy, pop-rock chick, or go the Spanish language route, which can be very lucrative, not to mention a new niche for AI to go into.

Tiger92, big radio interviews are viewed by some as another means of accepted payola, besides the Jingle Balls. The major stations playing WWFM so far got interviews.

Sometimes. I just read on this blog recently that Cook did interviews at some stations that never played his songs. (They might play it once or twice that day and that’s it.) If the interview/airplay spins trade-off was a sure thing, wouldn’t people like Allison or Jason C. be doing 10 interviews a day? I don’t think getting played on the radio is as simple as that.

It’s not tit for tat, and can’t be, given current law.

However, radio holds all the cards, as they’ve always done. And once tit for tat was legally abolished, they actually ended up holding *more* cards, as the David C situation (and many other similar ones) shows.

Today, record labels know that, with everybody fighting for play, they absolutely have to make nice with radio stations and radio networks to some degree just to get on their radar screen and have any *shot* at play, since so many songs and artists are competing for it. … So they do helpful things for stations — offer their artists for on-air interviews and concerts and off-air concerts, such as private ones that stations ca offer to fans as contest prizes and such.

They help the stations make nice with listeners and fill their air with interesting stuff. … And then they *hope* that the combination of the nice things they’ve done for the station, combined with the station’s judgment of whether a given song is going to be a good money maker for them, will spur play of the song. …. And sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn’t.

So the radio stations actually have more power than they ever had with this scenario. It basically forces *every* label to offer stuff to stations. But because tit for tat is illegal, the stations don’t have to do anything at all in return.

Just to add on, there’s no guarantee that whatever RCA has promised Z100 or the others has anything to do with Adam. It’s common for labels to help new artists by promising stations exclusives with bigger more established artists. The same might be true with Kris, but I doubt that Jive, which has an established relationship with Z100, had to promise them a lot, especially since Z100 seems to make these types of deals all of the time.

semi related to charts:

Susan Boyle Makes UK Chart History
http://www.billboard.com/news/susan-boyle-makes-uk-chart-history-1004049344.story#/news/susan-boyle-makes-uk-chart-history-1004049344.story

Former “Britain’s Got Talent” contestant Susan Boyle made a record-breaking debut on Sunday’s new U.K. chart with her debut album “I Dreamed a Dream” (Syco Music/Sony Music Entertainment).

It sold 410,000 units to become Britain’s fastest-selling album of 2009 and recorded the biggest first-week sales of any album in U.K. chart history, according to Official Charts Company data.

BTW, I think Jive’s big deal was with Z100, and paid off weeks ago, and the movement that we have seen from LLWD since has more to do with the reception that the song has gotten at the stations that it is on, and not with Jive promising stations anything.

True – but even LLWD was slow going at the beginning, with very few adds (or at least spins) outside of Z100. However, with positive word of mouth, it built steadily, and every week kept adding spins and doing better, which is exactly what it needed to do (and hopefully WWFM can follow suit).

My biggest fear, in the aftermath of the AMAs, is that that performance scared off radio from Adam. I really really don’t think that will actually happen, but in the back of my mind, if I was already too afraid of radio actually picking him up as a new, very different kind of artist, the AMAs certainly wouldn’t quell any radio fears that he is, indeed, not your typical artist.

Then again, I think Adam’s team is banking on that “originality” to be what sets him apart from the crowd. And imo, he is bold, talented, and unique enough, for that strategy to work.

They help the stations make nice with listeners and fill their air with interesting stuff. ‘ ¦ And then they *hope* that the combination of the nice things they’ve done for the station, combined with the station’s judgment of whether a given song is going to be a good money maker for them, will spur play of the song. ‘ ¦. And sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn’t.

Yep. These “nice offers” also give an incentive for the radio to spin the song. An interview is more interesting if people on your station are already listening to the artist (rather than thinking “Who in the hell is that and why are they talking to him?”) and concerts are a more valuable prize for listeners that actually have heard the artist.

Blake had a terrible time going around the country giving interviews and not getting spun by the stations at all. I think that’s because he was willing to talk crap about Idol (esp Sanjaya) so that made him a valuable guest without the need to spin. It cost Blake a lot of money to do the radio tour (since many of them were in-house) with a very low pay-off. So, yes, the radio stations hold all the cards.

Just to add on, there’s no guarantee that whatever RCA has promised Z100 or the others has anything to do with Adam. It’s common for labels to help new artists by promising stations exclusives with bigger more established artists. The same might be true with Kris, but I doubt that Jive, which has an established relationship with Z100, had to promise them a lot, especially since Z100 seems to make these types of deals all of the time.

Exactly. You can offer a station one of your big, established artists and suggest that it might be nice if they then took a look at some of your new artists as well. That’s pretty common, I expect. … .Again, sometimes it works for the label, and sometimes it doesn’t. ….

But I’m pretty sure all the labels would be scared to death not to do it to the extent of their ability for fear that they’d end up off radio playlists altogether!

Exactly. And the thing is, your song needs to resonate with listeners if you want the station to continue playing it, and to get other stations to follow suit. LLWD ended up on Z100′s listener countdowns a lot–it got good feedback from listeners. I think WWFM has also made the countdown. This type of thing will help keep the song in good rotation there.

On 11/28, WWFM got 10 HAC spins and 79 CHR spins. Of those, approximately 45 were OHP spins, and 9 were Z100/KIIS/WPLJ. So, 54/89 spins were directly related to the four shows or stations where AL has done interviews, or 60.7%. On 11/29, WWFM got 13 HAC spins and 71 CHR spins. Of those, approximate 52 were OHP spins and 9 were Z100/KIIS/WPLJ. So, 61/84 were directly related to those same four shows or stations where AL has done interviews, or 72.3%. Put it together, and 115 of his 173 weekend spins were from those four shows or stations, or almost exactly 2/3 (66.5%). That’s a pretty extraordinary percentage.

As I said elsewhere, I actually have no problem with there being an expectation that a station will spin the song of someone who gives them an interview. Hell, I get annoyed if that doesn’t happen. But this high linkage means that, at this point, he needs (1) the payola to continue to provide spins and (2) these spins to have some coattails, e.g., some follower stations to go along with Z100 and/or some of the OHP stations to decide to spin WWFM on their own.

It seems wise to either market her as a younger Kelly Clarkson, kinda edgy, pop-rock chick, or go the Spanish language route, which can be very lucrative, not to mention a new niche for AI to go into.

I think this is exactly why she was signed. If she was just one or the other, I’m not sure they would have taken a chance on her (because she really didn’t seem to have a strong fanbase), but the dual appeal makes her unique. I think it was a smart move.

I don’t like FIBOU, at all.

sidenote, I love FIBOU

From the Pulse Music Board: (add for WWFM)
“Another Big Daddy on board this morning … KHKS in Dallas!”

What number is Dallas in the top 20 radio stations? How important are big adds in the top 5 or 10?
Has Adam done an interview at this radio station?

WWFM got 3 new adds this am:

http://addboard.mediabase.com/AddDetails.asp?sngcde=LAMBWWFM

I just decided to check out of curiosity to see what our HAC and AC stations were doing locally as far as Christmas airplay is concerned. I’m 2 hours east of of Raleigh btw and this area is unmonitored. Our HAC of course did its predictable change to 24/7 Christmas on Thanksgiving and the AC station hasn’t gone all Christmas but they are playing a mixture of both. In fact, Already Gone was just played btw. Since this AC station is still somewhat new (starting date 2/16/09) I was interested to see what they were doing at this time.

Deleted since FolkFan brought her excellent analysis of WWFM’s weekend spins over herself.

Our HAC of course did its predictable change to 24/7 Christmas on Thanksgiving and the AC station hasn’t gone all Christmas.

BTW, from what I’ve been reading, when a station goes all Christmas 24/7, it gets removed temporarily from the panel (e.g. HAC format panel) and moved to the Christmas panel.

What number is Dallas in the top 20 radio stations?

#5

from what I’ve been reading, when a station goes all Christmas 24/7, it gets removed temporarily from the panel (e.g. HAC format panel) and moved to the Christmas panel.

Interesting. Thanks Kirsten

Sigh its been a week for WWFM… Of course the percentage of spins to stations who got interviews will be higher at this point. Like it probably was for LLWD at the same point in time… Sheesh people give it time to even out a bit.

It will be very interesting to see what happens when the proposed legislation about radio and reimbursement finally makes it to a vote in congress. Right now radio holds all the cards….other than a few very minor FCC regulations they are “free” to manipulate all they want. And yes, if they so see fit they can try and destroy an Artists career just for the heck of it.

Radio only pays a songwriter (and very little at best). That is why radio stations are now all about “talk, talk, talk” and stupid Ass DJs and advertising. I would hazard a guess that an hour of radio time probably is 1/3 talk, 1/3 advertising, and maybe 1/3 music. So, basically at 3 minutes a song they probably play 6 songs an hour (maximum) at peak time…a few more at night.

Radio has very little to do with what the listening public wants to hear. They are all about what the advertisers will “let” them play.

So once radio has to pay for an Artist as well as a songwriter (as per the new upcoming legislation) I will guarantee you that radio will be more and more about talk, talk, talk. And somehow music will need to find other outlets to be heard. The next 10 years will be very interesting in deed.

It seems wise to either market her as a younger Kelly Clarkson, kinda edgy, pop-rock chick, or go the Spanish language route, which can be very lucrative, not to mention a new niche for AI to go into.

I bet that’s exactly what the plan is. There are 3 things to note with Allison though: 1. Her manager is Carrie’s manager, 2. 19 has a number of bigger releases coming out right now (Carrie, Adam, and Kris) and 3. She dropped her single in a very very crowded quarter for pop, where a lot of the top females were releasing new stuff. I think she got momentarily pushed to the side. I expect things will start to pick up for her after Christmas.

sidenote, I love FIBOU

Me too. Its a fun song to me.

edit: totally off-topic, plus it’s already posted in the headlines thread

What number is Dallas in the top 20 radio stations?

#5

So, WWFM has been added to #1,2 and 5 so far. Is that correct?
Kirsten: How important are big adds in the top 5 or 10?

I’m beginning to think that just like in all other aspects of life, my home state of Mississippi falls behind and does everything late. I have heard David Cook’s “Come Back To Me” CONSTANTLY on the radio in the last several weeks, long after everyone else here was hearing it on their stations! And I have YET to hear Kris’ LLWD, but I have a feeling that will change about the time he releases his second single. Out of curiousity, is that true of most small market stations…that they tend to fall behind the bigger markets when it comes to airplay of particular singles?

I bet that’s exactly what the plan is. There are 3 things to note with Allison though: 1. Her manager is Carrie’s manager, 2. 19 has a number of bigger releases coming out right now (Carrie, Adam, and Kris) and 3. She dropped her single in a very very crowded quarter for pop, where a lot of the top females were releasing new stuff. I think she got momentarily pushed to the side. I expect things will start to pick up for her after Christmas.

That is what I hope is their plan. They just wanted to let her get some Christmas sales from her Idol fanbase, but that they have a timing for her to start with the heavy promotion in the new year.

So once radio has to pay for an Artist as well as a songwriter (as per the new upcoming legislation) I will guarantee you that radio will be more and more about talk, talk, talk. And somehow music will need to find other outlets to be heard. The next 10 years will be very interesting in deed.

Sometimes I wonder whether, except for maybe dance music, popular music will become more like classical music and like books. Something that is a taste of a niche group but largely ignored by most people.

I know that sounds nuts, but as I hear about many people watching Idol, for example, who never buy a cd or download a tune from an idol finalist or from any other artist, I wonder whether popular music is as intrinsic a part of human culture as history leads us to believe or whether it can be fairly easily replaced by other forms of entertainment.

Out of curiousity, is that true of most small market stations’ ¦that they tend to fall behind the bigger markets when it comes to airplay of particular singles?

Actually, it often seems to kind of go the other way around, I think. …

A new artist/single comes out and gets debut play on some really big station, like New York or LA.

But in many cases, aside from that debuting station, for a long time after that it seems to be primarily quite small or mid-sized stations that pick the song up, while the rest of the big top 20 markets kind of hang back watching the situation.

There are lots of patterns to the development, I’m sure, but I’ve noticed this one several times, so i think it’s probably fairly common.

I agree there’s a story there, but what we need is for someone like Slezak to simply ask Adam. I have a feeling if someone asked Adam a direct question, he’d spill the beans.

I don’t actually think he will, to be honest. Slezak is posting more of his interview with Adam today–it was recorded after the AMAs–but I think this is and one and done thing. I am not sure I would call it a debacle, but I would say that Adam will be doing more straightforward performances for a while. like he did on the Morning Show (and on Letterman). He says that GaGa was his inspiration, but he has not secured his place next to GaGa. Whether he will or not is not yet known. I do agree that FYE is not yet dead in the water, but WWFM is getting more spins at this point that FYE did, and if he continues to play it on programs like Ellen, it will just pick up more steam (he also played Music Again on CBS, so maybe that will be his next single, or maybe it was just a fun song to put out there, to balance out WWFM, and perhaps FYE).

Mary, I have two different Media Bases open for Adam. One shows five stations spinning WWFM, one spinning 11. Any idea why?

From the Pulse Music Board: (add for WWFM)

Another Big Daddy on board this morning ‘ ¦ KHKS in Dallas!

What number is Dallas in the top 20 radio stations? How important are big adds in the top 5 or 10? Has Adam done an interview at this radio station?

The Dallas station is the 5th largest market, but I haven’t seen any evidence that they have added the song. They were one of the 11 stations that played it last week, and they’ve played it today. So far, they’ve only played it a total of 8 times. They first played it on November 25th. I think the song is still in the testing stage, but they’ll probably eventually add it. Maybe they’ll add it today.

FYE is a stinker. It was a good idea to change that disaster to WWFM after FYE is not moving up.

Sometimes I wonder whether, except for maybe dance music, popular music will become more like classical music and like books. Something that is a taste of a niche group but largely ignored by most people.

Well in a way hasn’t it always been like that? Pop music has mostly been about the tastes of the young. Once people have jobs, families and responsibilities, on average they stop paying attention to new acts to the same degree. The whole thing is built around marketing to the 12-25 age group, and they are far from the majority of Americans.

Idol is a TV show so people treat it like one IMO. There has never been more than a small percentage of the viewers who go on to buy a CD anyway.

Sometimes I wonder whether, except for maybe dance music, popular music will become more like classical music and like books. Something that is a taste of a niche group but largely ignored by most people.

Well in a way hasn’t it always been like that? Pop music has mostly been about the tastes of the young. Once people have jobs, families and responsibilities, on average they stop paying attention to new acts to the same degree. The whole thing is built around marketing to the 12-25 age group, and they are far from the majority of Americans.

Definitely. I guess I just wonder whether the young will start bonding over other stuff, too, instead of having music be the big cultural denominator for a generation, as it has been a lot in the past. … .

For one thing, if the young are mainly stealing music, then there won’t be nearly as much music made, because nobody will be paying for it.

I’ve always thought of music as a kind of primal human common denominator, but now I wonder whether other stuff like video games or whatever could pretty much replace it.

WWFM has been added to #1,2 and 5 so far. Is that correct?

Hmmm…I don’t see #5 on the add board yet for WWFM for top 40. As far as this week, I see #105 and #109 under the monitored reporters. We won’t see all of the top 40 reporters before tomorrow since today is HAC (Hot AC) and AC day. As far as #1 and #2 the answer to your question is a yes.

I know that sounds nuts, but as I hear about many people watching Idol, for example, who never buy a cd or download a tune from an idol finalist or from any other artist, I wonder whether popular music is as intrinsic a part of human culture as history leads us to believe or whether it can be fairly easily replaced by other forms of entertainment

.

The people who you mention are the exception, not the rule. I think it’s a safe bet to say that the average AI viewer is not in the demographic that most of the AI contestants are going to be marketed to after they leave the show. Most of the viewers seem to be older, and are more into AC, and as you said, rarely buy music.

I think this is the big issue with Allison, and it is what made me so uncertain about how she would do after being signed to a label

I don’t expect Allison’s album to do particularly well. However, I think that in a few years, when she is in her early 20s and has some life experience under her belt, she will have a “Jagged Little Pill” like album that will be a monster success. Right now is not the time for her for a million different reasons.

Sigh its been a week for WWFM’ ¦ Of course the percentage of spins to stations who got interviews will be higher at this point. Like it probably was for LLWD at the same point in time’ ¦

LOL. Has the death watch started already?

Considering the response it got on Open House Party and the fact that is hasn’t played on Ellen yet (assuming that is what he goes with), I’m gonna go with no on that.

Still not sure about how this works (shock): Pulse Music Board? Is that the mediabase, which I can’t get to be current?

FWIW, MIX in Boston is currently playing LO. They are big supporters of Cook (they played ToML hundreds of times, happily). I have yet to hear LLWD or FYE on there; LLWD surprised me. That seems like a good fit for Mix, who played Heartless a lot (tho not anymore).

ITA: babybelle, please help me w/ this! Not getting adds situation for WWFM. And do you think 19 will drop FIBOU if it doesn’t start getting some spins? Her album drops tomorrow, right? (Am I right?) So will they give it more time?

The people who you mention are the exception, not the rule.

Not sure what you’re saying! … that non-music-buyers are a minority in the population, or at least in the young population? …

Definitely. I guess I just wonder whether the young will start bonding over other stuff, too, instead of having music be the big cultural denominator for a generation, as it has been a lot in the past. ‘ ¦ .

For one thing, if the young are mainly stealing music, then there won’t be nearly as much music made, because nobody will be paying for it.

Oh, I see where you are coming from. No, I think music will still be a big deal. Even if its not coming out from major corporations, people will still make it and others will still find it. The young are still huge music fans, they just don’t interact with music in the same way because they are increasingly going through different channels to find it and consume it.

Mary, I have two different Media Bases open for Adam. One shows five stations spinning WWFM, one spinning 11. Any idea why?

You have one showing one week and one showing full history.

I understand that many think FYE is a stinker, but it is now 21 on itunes.

It has climbed steadily since the AMAs, maybe we are prematurely predicting its demise.

I still beleive it was only meant to be a perfromance piece and that WWFM was meant to be the actual 1st single.

Who here would LOVE as I would to see Adam perform Fever in concert. Not live on TV, but his uninhibited self in concert? Dying to see that-will be worth the price of the ticket!

Well in a way hasn’t it always been like that? Pop music has mostly been about the tastes of the young.

I think that’s its definition – pop music is a form of popular music that caters to the tastes of young people beginning circa 1950. Otherwise people would be just use the term “popular music” instead of “pop music” since there have always existed various forms of popular music since time immemorial (classical and folk music were popular music).

FWIW, MIX in Boston is currently playing LO. They are big supporters of Cook (they played ToML hundreds of times, happily). I have yet to hear LLWD or FYE on there; LLWD surprised me. That seems like a good fit for Mix, who played Heartless a lot (tho not anymore).

The Boston station plays LLWD, but for some reason, they still have it in very lite rotation, despite the fact that it is so high up on the HAC chart. They only played it 8 times last week, and so far a total of 40 times since October 17th. And most of the spins have happened between 12 am – 6 am.

@Laurelg Heh theres always a deathwatch on for something or the other…

How did Owl City become a smash hit when the guy (Matt?) wasn’t even known a few months ago? Is it b/c he did so well on myspace and YouTube that the stations got interested? I am just wondering in relation to artists like Adam and Kris and Allison.

I think Allison may well become the next Avril Lavigne or Alannis Morrisette (tho I don’t like her), but maybe not till her 2nd album. I think it might be tricky to market her, but I dunno. Does she hit the Miley market? I am surprised to see Miley doing so well on HAC and CHR. I never would have guessed that.

A question for any of you in the know…where do I go to see if my local stations are playing (have added) LLWD or WYWFM? Link? I haven’t heard either yet, although I heard LLWD at my gym. I stopped and asked what station it was on and they said it was “internet radio” which I took to mean sirius xm (don’t know if that’s a correct assumption though!). Thanks!

And Tess, thanks for the info on recurrent songs and songwriters being the only ones getting royalties for airplay. Did not know that (and how sad)! Also didn’t know about the proposed legislation to change that. Love that I learn so much on these boards! Thanks again to everyone!!

You have one showing one week and one showing full history.

Thanks, and thanks re: MIX and LLWD, tho I have no idea how you found that out…*sigh*

I still beleive it was only meant to be a perfromance piece and that WWFM was meant to be the actual 1st single.

Eh. You don’t give an adds date and make a video for a performance piece. It was the single, they referred to it as the single on his official site and in press releases. It just didn’t catch. But they have until January to get WWFM in position to take its place and it seem to be off to a great start. So I wouldn’t worry about it.

I understand that many think FYE is a stinker, but it is now 21 on itunes.

It has climbed steadily since the AMAs, maybe we are prematurely predicting its demise

THats also because it was also his release week. Singles tend to climb on the album release week, thats normal.

I’ve always thought of music as a kind of primal human common denominator, but now I wonder whether other stuff like video games or whatever could pretty much replace it.

I’m sure video games will never replace music, but in terms of where the big dollar payoffs are right now – yes, they have.

Call of Duty 6 recently sold 4.7 million copies and grossed $310m dollars in 24 hours making it the most successful entertainment launch of all time. The game took in over a $500m in one week and the entire Call of Duty series has surpassed the 3 billion dollars mark worldwide. It’s a juggernaut.

Oh, and this was all pre-Black Friday.

The Boston station plays LLWD, but for some reason, they still have it in very lite rotation, despite the fact that it is so high up on the HAC chart. They only played it 8 times last week, and so far a total of 40 times since October 17th. And most of the spins have happened between 12 am ‘“ 6 am.

That station is owned by CBSRadio, as is my local HAC station (also a 104.1). It seems that CBS hasn’t fully gotten on board with LLWD. My station will play it by request, but hasn’t added yet. It seems like the only spins it has had other than by request were the ‘new music challenge’ things.

At first I thought it was weird that a top 20 song wasn’t added, but I did some poking around and realized there were a handful of others (all by ‘less established’ artists). At the same time, my HAC added songs by Kate Voegle and Joshua Radin today – who ‘coincidentally’ happen to playing their ‘AQuistic Christmas’ event.

How did Owl City become a smash hit when the guy (Matt?) wasn’t even known a few months ago? Is it b/c he did so well on myspace and YouTube that the stations got interested?

I would bet that’s it ….. They may figure that if people specifically go to Youtube to look for some music, and play it a lot, then the music may have mass appeal…. And then they probably tested it and found that it was so.

I guess that’s pretty analogous to Idol debut songs actually doing quite well on the radio compared to debut songs from hundreds of other artists. For all our complaining, radio does tend to play the songs, at least to some degree, and it’s certainly because they know that exposure and votes on the show mean at least a *certain* degree of audience interest ….. I would bet that they figure that a very high degree of Internet fame for a music video means a *higher* degree of young-demographic audience interest, though!

My husband likes Adam but he didn’t watch the AMAs, hearing about it was enough for him. But he did watch Adam on The Early Show and he’s gonna watch him with me on Ellen. He doesn’t like to listen to music on an iPod but I managed to get him to listen to Soaked. He really liked it and said that was the kind of music Adam should stick to. I don’t agree for more than one reason: 1st Adam doesn’t want to to be the next Celine Dion or Josh Grobin. 2nd If I were lucky enough to go to an Adam concert I would want to get up and dance.

IMHO Adam struck the right balance between danceable music and ballads. I know he would like to do a staged extravaganza like Gaga, but he probably won’t have the budget to start out with and he also needs to build up his fan base before he goes to a risky extreme. Gaga is okay, but how can she keep topping herself? But I don’t think Adam will listen to my advice, ha ha.

P.S. I love Soaked among others.

I’m sure video games will never replace music, but in terms of where the big dollar payoffs are right now ‘“ yes, it has.

Call of Duty 6 recently sold 4.7 million copies and grossed $310m dollars in 24 hours making it the most successful entertainment launch of all time. The game took in over a $500m in one week and the entire Call of Duty series has surpassed the 3 billion dollars mark worldwide. It’s a juggernaut.

Oh, and this was all pre-Black Friday.

Yikes!

How did Owl City become a smash hit when the guy (Matt?) wasn’t even known a few months ago? Is it b/c he did so well on myspace and YouTube that the stations got interested?

Yeah, he’s kind of a combo of the Beiber kid (internet buzz) and the Ting Tings (indie/industry buzz) that make PDs think he might be the next big thing and give his song a chance. Plus, didn’t that thing start selling like crazy when was still getting like little to no airplay? That’ll always get you some attention.

FYE is #32 on the iTunes Top 100. Posting that it’s #21 (which it is in Pop) is kinda of confusing. It’s like posting a song is #5 in Rock. Interesting but not that helpful in determining how many dls its selling.

I see LLWD is now #38 which may be it’s peak on iTunes so far. It’s having a good day. FYE the album seems to be in a seesaw battle with Justin Bieber’s album right now on iTunes.

Upcoming album releases for the next few weeks are very meh. So the top albums this week could dominate until Xmas.

I don’t see music fading away as a social draw any time soon. Considering there were 115,000 albums put out in the last chart year, there is certainly no lack of people trying. The prominence of the JoBros and Justin Biebers shows the younger generation is not backing off of music, either.

Whoever commented upthread about the death watch for WWFM seems to have missed the commentary that accompanied the statistics on the preponderance of airplay being from 3 sources, who all got interviews. It was clearly stated that the purpose of this strategy was to get other stations to add the song, too, by jump-starting it in prominent places. No one said other stations would not follow. Only that we have to wait and see.

Small and medium station adds are a funny thing. Some small or medium stations are the first to add a song. Others wait until a song hits a certain milestone on their home chart. For instance, TOML did not hit the airwaves in Indianapolis until about 6 months after it debuted. LO was similar. I think CBTM might have hit a tad sooner. No amount of requesting changed this. I think a lot depends on the station’s management as to how they want to position themselves.

Great to see Kris maintaining and moving up the charts. I like good news.

I’m wondering if they should have released LLWD and FYE more like Crush, i.e. do it much earlier. David Cook had some presence in the chart before Light On’s release due to the success of Magic Rainbow, but neither Kris nor Adam has any radio presence prior their single release. Instead of giving FYE time to grow, it looks like they have to change the single in a panic because of the issue of time. And if Kris had more airplay by the time of his album release he would have done better sales wise.

I know he would like to do a staged extravaganza like Gaga, but he probably won’t have the budget to start out with and he also needs to build up his fan base before he goes to a risky extreme. Gaga is okay, but how can she keep topping herself? But I don’t think Adam will listen to my advice, ha ha.

Oh, I hope he does listen to your advice, revcat. I hope there’s no money in the budget for scaffolding and staircases. lol.

FYE is #32 on the iTunes Top 100. Posting that it’s #21 (which it is in Pop) is kinda of confusing. It’s like posting a song is #5 in Rock. Interesting but not that helpful in determining how many dls its selling.

I see LLWD is now #38 which may be it’s peak on iTunes so far. It’s having a good day. FYE the album seems to be in a seesaw battle with Justin Bieber’s album right now on iTunes.

Upcoming album releases for the next few weeks are very meh. So the top albums this week could dominate until Xmas.

All of this sounds like pretty good news, to me, at any rate.

revcat

IMHO Adam struck the right balance between danceable music and ballads. I know he would like to do a staged extravaganza like Gaga, but he probably won’t have the budget to start out with and he also needs to build up his fan base before he goes to a risky extreme. Gaga is okay, but how can she keep topping herself? But I don’t think Adam will listen to my advice, ha ha.

P.S. I love Soaked among others.

Soaked is gorgeous. My favorite song on the album. My second fave is If I Had You which, I guess, proves that his “one hot, one sweet” formula works for this fan at least.

I’m wondering if they should have released LLWD and FYE more like Crush, i.e. do it much earlier. David Cook had some presence in the chart before Light On’s release due to the success of Magic Rainbow, but neither Kris nor Adam has any radio presence prior their single release. Instead of giving FYE time to grow, it looks like they have to change the single in a panic because of the issue of time. And if Kris had more airplay by the time of his album release he would have done better sales wise.

Yeah, it probably would have helped to do what you are talking about. But I would suspect the last minute nature of things this year pushed stuff back a bit.

In the past, the whole Idol fanbase thing would have been able to carry a popular winner or runner up through Christmas. So I bet there was an expectation that they could afford to wait a couple of weeks.

I bet that same mistake won’t get made agian next year.

don’t see music fading away as a social draw any time soon. Considering there were 115,000 albums put out in the last chart year, there is certainly no lack of people trying. The prominence of the JoBros and Justin Biebers shows the younger generation is not backing off of music, either.

Amen…and if there is any question of music no longer being a common denominator in the world, those people haven’t been in a college football stadium when they start playing “Sandstorm” or “Zombie Nation” over the PA system.

Danny Gokey got his first radio adds for the “new” single – My Best Days. Detroit and NJ country stations have added the song so far today.

It would have been great to have the S8 folks’ singles available much earlier, no doubt. It sounds like in AL’s case, though, most of his album was put together right after the tour ended, as apparently TPTB didn’t like what was put together during the tour. It would not have been possible to get a song out sooner for him, apparently.

LLWD peaked at #28 overall and #15 on pop upon release, but #38 is the highest peak since it made it’s way back up on the top 100 chart.
Also, it hasn’t gone down below #70 overall if I’m right, since it went back up into the top 100.
The radio play and video is definately doing it’s job because LLWD seems to gain momentum every weekend and if it continues like that, the single will be a success which will eventually help the album sales.

I’m bringing this over from the headlines thread. It’s a recent Adam tweet and it looks like WWFM has the full support of everyone now:

adamlambert ellen:airing 2m.Singing ‘whatya want from me’! AMA performance was a one time event. Goin in a new direction now. Focus back on the music.
3 minutes ago from Echofon

Danny Gokey got his first radio adds for the ‘new’  single ‘“ My Best Days. Detroit and NJ country stations have added the song so far today.

I’m sorry but this made me laugh. Not that Danny got adds….but that the stations are 2 country stations in the most urban parts of our whole nation. Who would of thought that there was even a country station in Detroit or New Jersey…not me, that’s for sure.

It would have been great to have the S8 folks’ singles available much earlier, no doubt.

Maybe if they would make the coronation song more of a radio-friendly pop song and not an inspirational “moment” song, this would work. I think that’s a big issue and one that contributes to the argument that AI is not about launching a recording career, but primarily about “good TV.” Can you see Kris or Adam singing LLWD or FYE during the confetti shower? Nope. Fox wants that confetti, tears, hugs, “Moment Like the Time of My Life Inside Your Boundaries” (boy that came out way more perverted than I intended) final scene.

Maybe this would work…DON’T have them sing out. Instead, have them both record a song (suited to their vibe) and make a video, then premiere it on iTunes right after the finale?

I’m bringing this over from the headlines thread. It’s a recent Adam tweet and it looks like WWFM has the full support of everyone now:

adamlambert ellen:airing 2m.Singing ‘whatya want from me’! AMA performance was a one time event. Goin in a new direction now. Focus back on the music.
3 minutes ago from Echofon

I don’t think they had a choice at this point. The existence of both FYE and WWFM was causing confusion among fans and there are many who felt that FYE was a one off – but if that’s the case what are they planning to do with the FYE video?

FYE is #32 on the iTunes Top 100. Posting that it’s #21 (which it is in Pop) is kinda of confusing. It’s like posting a song is #5 in Rock. Interesting but not that helpful in determining how many dls its selling.

I see LLWD is now #38 which may be it’s peak on iTunes so far.

ITA!!!

People have been doing this for weeks with LLWD! I wish they would specify if the ranking is from the overall or pop chart! It has been very confusing in the past. I guess this is just a carry-over.
I also wish we wouldn’t get into so much detail with adds. We didn’t with LLWD. Now, all of a sudden we have to specify whether the station is monitored or not, and whether it is an auto add or not. Whatever-just report the adds. It’s too confusing.

adamlambert ellen:airing 2m.Singing ‘whatya want from me’! AMA performance was a one time event. Goin in a new direction now. Focus back on the music.
3 minutes ago from Echofon

**pours out a little liquor for FYE**

LOL

I’m wondering if they should have released LLWD and FYE more like Crush, i.e. do it much earlier. David Cook had some presence in the chart before Light On’s release due to the success of Magic Rainbow, but neither Kris nor Adam has any radio presence prior their single release.

If NoBo had been worth a rat’s tail, that would have given Kris some good radio exposure during the summer, which could have been used as a foundation for his album. But the less said about Kara’s unholy song, the better! LOL.

‘Moment Like the Time of My Life Inside Your Boundaries’  (boy that came out way more perverted than I intended) final scene.

LOL – but it’s pretty hilarous!

I also wish we wouldn’t get into so much detail with adds. We didn’t with LLWD. Now, all of a sudden we have to specify whether the station is monitored or not, and whether it is an auto add or not. Whatever-just report the adds. It’s too confusing.

I don’t understand all of the ins and outs of this stuff either. But I think some of the people here actually do. So, I think sometimes the detail is for the benefit of those readers.

jpfan

If I remember correctly, the peak position for LLWD on the overall iTunes chart is #29

yup, checked my tracker that I briefly kept — on Sept 30 it was #29 on iTunes overall chart

I would think that 19/RCA will at least put the FYE music video on iTunes, even if they don’t end up sending it to MTV, VH1 , etc (which they might still do). They probabl spent a lot of money on that shoot and would like to get at least some of that $$$ back. And I think it’s a fun video and would probably sell pretty well — at least at first.

I wonder if they are going to try to rush a music video shoot for WWFM though?

I don’t understand all of the ins and outs of this stuff either. But I think some of the people here actually do. So, I think sometimes the detail is for the benefit of those readers.

Yes, please. There are many anal, nit-picky chart-watchers here who do very much care about the details. There are lots of nuances to the numbers, so accuracy helps in providing content. Apologies if all the qualifications and caveats get confusing to some, but it does help paint a truer picture when statistics are framed accurately.

I understand that many think FYE is a stinker, but it is now 21 on itunes.

It has climbed steadily since the AMAs, maybe we are prematurely predicting its demise.

I still beleive it was only meant to be a perfromance piece and that WWFM was meant to be the actual 1st single.

Who here would LOVE as I would to see Adam perform Fever in concert. Not live on TV, but his uninhibited self in concert? Dying to see that-will be worth the price of the ticket!

LOL – I agree with some who posted before that Adam’s roll out is completely unlike ANYTHING we’ve seen before – multiple songs, mv, AMAs, FYE, TFM, WWFM. And I really think it suggests a whole new “branding” type strategy with him that goes way beyond typical new artists, especially AI artists.

I love the FYE MV, and can see that doing well, and boosting FYE’s sales. I think radio alone is holding out on FYE, and that the AMA controversy isn’t helping it, because it’s making the song way too “hot to handle”, for lack of a better phrase. So that just makes his roll out all the more, er, interesting to watch. Lol – never a dull moment with Adam.

And I too would LOVE to hear Adam perform Fever – that would be a great Ellen song, actually – maybe if he could have done that and WWFM on Ellen.

I heard somewhere that Lady Gaga was performing in DC in June, which made me think she’s coming back to the states to perform next year after the Europe dates. If so, that would be PERFECT for Adam to jump on board with – open for her, learn more from her, etc. I think his spontaneous style could work really well with her more controlled, almost robotic, precision style. And a Fever duet with them together would be AMAZING!

I would think that 19/RCA will at least put the FYE music video on iTunes, even if they don’t end up sending it to MTV

MTV has the video — there was an article about it (and the video) on their “Buzzworthy” blog

FYE is actually starting to go backwards again on the iTunes chart. It had been in the 20′s overall a couple of days ago. I didn’t write it down, so I don’t remember for sure, but I think it got up to #24 before it started going backwards again. So the bump it got from the album release and the AMAs seems to have worn off.

Swiching to WWFM seems to have been the right move.

“Yes, please. There are many anal, nit-picky chart-watchers here who do very much care about the details. There are lots of nuances to the numbers, so accuracy helps in providing content. Apologies if all the qualifications and caveats get confusing to some, but it does help paint a truer picture when statistics are framed accurately.”

Ladymadonna: I’m with you as one of those anal, nit-picky chart-watchers. The detail is fascinating for a lot of us.

Girlygirl:

Would you please post the link for the iTunes live feed? I don’t have the bookmark here at my office and would like to watch LLWD today to see if it continues the move it started a few days ago. Thanks!

SuBo sold 410K in the UK this week. Can’t rule out 700K in Grandma Gifts here in the US.

While you may not be able to get in an elevator soon without hearing her, radio – nothing.

Adam Lambert’s predicted to move 200K plus this week. And radio spins matter how to that?

SuBo and the Idols are TV & Internet stars. Their biggest record buying audience may have joined the ever-increasing mass exodus away from radio. Just my HO, but for people like Idols (& Brit equivalents) TV & internet appearances have much greater importance in their sales than the 20th century model of “Spins Wins”.

@adamlambert Don’t worry friends: I’m still gonna be me. Always. W/o appologies. Just gonna experiment differently w how I present myself. 38 minutes ago from Echofon

Dude needs to work on spelling. I think this is a very telling tweet. Sorry, I’m not on other threads anymore, but it speaks to what he’ll release and how he’ll release it. Not sure if that has to do w/ his handlers or not, but it certainly speaks to the way he performs (and what he performs) on shows like the Morning Show, Letterman, and Ellen. So I think FYE is going ba bye (remember, the video was filmed BEFORE the AMAs, and he also noted on Morning Show, I think, that they had made some changes to it) and the push will be on WWFM. And I am happy someone else likes IIHY, b/c to *me* that is a perfect dance song to air (perhaps Fever as well). I also think Pick U Up will get airplay.

I do expect a video for WWFM and it can be very simply made (i.e., without spending a lot of money, like they did on FYE video).

I do not understand all of the ins and outs of adds. I just want to see Kris, Adam, and Allison do well.

Sweet, Tampa just added Whataya Want From Me !

Adam Lambert’s predicted to move 200K plus this week. And radio spins matter how to that?

He’ll need those later. It hardly matters for the first few weeks (or with Idols, for the christmas season) because acts with a fanbase can rely on them to buy and during the holidays, idol types get purchased as cheap gifts.

SuBo and the Idols are TV & Internet stars. Their biggest record buying audience may have joined the ever-increasing mass exodus away from radio. Just my HO, but for people like Idols (& Brit equivalents) TV & internet appearances have much greater importance in their sales than the 20th century model of ‘Spins Wins’ .

Yes, but those are not sustaining. They don’t last long. You can’t go on TV repeatedly for months, nobody is booking you like that. Though I do think SoBo has a shot at the Josh Groban type market. Adam will need the radio at some point. Like January. But I do think he will eventually get radio, so its all good.

Maybe this would work’ ¦DON’T have them sing out. Instead, have them both record a song (suited to their vibe) and make a video, then premiere it on iTunes right after the finale?

I think the coronation single could have worked really well for Kris… his style is well suited to an inspirational ballad as long as it was soft rock-ish. They blew it big time with him this year.

“Adam Lambert’s predicted to move 200K plus this week. And radio spins matter how to that?”

I can’t tell if this is a serious or sarcastic question. If singles aren’t played on the radio, then it’s less likely album sales will continue to have legs beyond the first couple of weeks. So …. airplay is important to sales. The sales discussion is Wednesday.

Eileen99

Here you go. Remember to change the numbers in the web address in order for it to update!

http://ax.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wpa/MRSS/topsongs/sf=9174500/limit=0000/rss.xml

Sweet, Tampa just added Whataya Want From Me !

Another top 20 market! Good news.

Danny Gokey got his first radio adds for the ‘new’  single ‘“ My Best Days. Detroit and NJ country stations have added the song so far today.

I’m sorry but this made me laugh. Not that Danny got adds’ ¦.but that the stations are 2 country stations in the most urban parts of our whole nation. Who would of thought that there was even a country station in Detroit or New Jersey’ ¦not me, that’s for sure.

Glad to hear some of the radio stations are starting to do add’s of Danny’s single.
There are country fans and music stations nation-wide, living in both urban and rural or suburban areas — no big surprise there for me. Not sure where in NJ this may be, but keep in mind a lot of NJ is pretty rural/suburban also; it’s not all just outer NYC.

As far as Detroit, Danny was just there at Thanksgiving doing a large fundraiser performance (pretty ritzy event, tickets up to $1000/each) and appearing with Josh Gracin at the big Detroit Thanksgiving parade. His participation in the parade had some type of sponsorship by a Detroit country music station who also interviewed him during CMA Week.

I may be the exception, but i always thought that FYE was picked as his 1st single because it sounds like Adam. well, his persona anyway(remembering his past interviews).

I guess, RCA was thinking that after the AMA, radio play will pick up and catapult his single to #1. and we know what happened that night.

WWFM is very radio friendly, but it does sound like a “glamourized” contemporary(alt/soft, whatever) rock to me. (JUST MY OPINION, Okey!)not very Adam, but its a potential hit.

but give it some time. and give him a break. im thinking the media is starting to cramp his space(probably some fans, too). his talent will pull him through.

deleted by soverymel

Sweet, Tampa just added Whataya Want From Me !

Which station? That’s my geographical area

Getting the technical difficulties message for the HDD chart.

Which station? That’s my geographical area

WFLZ-FM…. It’s a Top 40 station.

WWFM is very radio friendly, but it does sound like a ‘glamourized’  contemporary(alt/soft, whatever) rock to me. (JUST MY OPINION, Okey!)not very Adam, but its a potential hit.

Me, too.

Nevertheless, he just needs play of *something.* And in this case, FYE is also “out there” in the atmosphere and known about, plus he’s done Music Again…so people have a chance to find out about other songs that may sound a little more “him,” and not peg him as being all about WWFM….

If singles aren’t played on the radio, then it’s less likely album sales will continue to have legs beyond the first couple of weeks.

I’m not going to disagree with you about the importance of radio, but I will say that I never EVER listen to the radio and somehow I am aware of new releases, hot songs, new artists etc. and download lots of new stuff from itunes. I suspect that over time and in the future, radio play will be less important in the billboard rankings as internet, alt. media etc. becomes increasingly important in terms of how people hear music.

I just want to add my thanks to all the number gurus. I don’t participate in the discussion in this thread, really, but it’s my favorite thread to read. I find all the radio/spin info fascinating. Specifically, thanks Kirsten, ladymadonna, folkfan, indymuse, jpfan and anyone else I left out (sorry!) who gives us all so much insight into this whole part of the music business.

WFLZ-FM’ ¦. It’s a Top 40 station.

Awesome. 93.3 is in the #1 position on my radio pre-sets in the car. Muchas Gracias for the info Lucy.

I’ve been bummed because I have yet to hear either Kris or Adam on the radio (I know Kris has been played locally here – so I think that’s just bad timing on my part). So, hopefully now I’ll get my chance!

And – ditto on what Jersey said. Many thanks to all of you information gatherers

Awesome. 93.3 is in the #1 position on my radio pre-sets in the car. Muchas Gracias for the info Lucy.

I’ve been bummed because I have yet to hear either Kris or Adam on the radio (I know Kris has been played locally here ‘“ so I think that’s just bad timing on my part). So, hopefully now I’ll get my chance!

Hope you get to hear them, too! … I don’t know that 93.3 has played WWFM recently or at all. But they have added it — specifically, not as an automatic add because a station has already been spinning it — and that’s certainly the first step!

93.3 morning show host gave Adam a little kick in the ass this morning, but one of the guys on the show (Fester) is a big fan and loved the AMA performance. I hope they’ll start spinning the song. They also replay Seacrest’s show from 1-4 so if it gets any plays there, Tampa will here it.

McAllen (where is this?) and Fresno just added WWFM

NYC radio is playing both WWFM and FYE in continuous rotation today and WWFM has multiple adds today

Glad to hear some of the radio stations are starting to do add’s of Danny’s single.
There are country fans and music stations nation-wide, living in both urban and rural or suburban areas ‘” no big surprise there for me. Not sure where in NJ this may be, but keep in mind a lot of NJ is pretty rural/suburban also; it’s not all just outer NYC.

As far as Detroit, Danny was just there at Thanksgiving doing a large fundraiser performance (pretty ritzy event, tickets up to $1000/each) and appearing with Josh Gracin at the big Detroit Thanksgiving parade. His participation in the parade had some type of sponsorship by a Detroit country music station who also interviewed him during CMA Week

I am glad that Danny got two adds today. I hope that he ends up getting a decent amount of adds.

Carrie’s Temporary Home already has 19 adds this week.

Adam has 8 adds, Daughtry 7, Cowboy Casanova 5, Bucky Covington 2, Danny, Kris and Kellie 2 and David Archuleta 1.

Even Susan Boyle’s “Silent night” got 5 adds.

TThe “radio play is not necessary” thing has popped up again?   I previously posted this but I think that it got kind of squashed by the sea of posts and such after the AMAs performance.   I matched up the top 50 album sales for the 2008-09 chart year with (1) the top 1000 radio artists and (2) the top 1000 radio songs in the mediabase database.  
There are three soundtracks (including Hannah Montana, which did have a top radio artist and radio song associated with it) and two radio hits compilations in the top 50. That leaves 42 CDs. Of those 42 CDs, 40 are by artists with songs in the top 1000, and most have songs in the upper reaches of the top 1000. The exceptions? Whitney Houston and Il Divo. Of those 42 CDs, 41 are by artists who are in the top 1000, again, typically in the upper reaches of the top 1000. The sole exception? Il Divo. So, there you have it: it is the exception for an act to be able to be a top album seller without also having good radio success. I was tempted to label that as the “Il Divo” exception. But if y’all would prefer it, I will label it the “SuBo” exception. Or we could call it the “easy listening of a certain variety possibly connected with substantial tv presence” exception. I am, of course, all about the choices.

I was tempted to label that as the ‘Il Divo’  exception. But if y’all would prefer it, I will label it the ‘SuBo’  exception. Or we could call it the ‘easy listening of a certain variety possibly connected with substantial tv presence’  exception. I am, of course, all about the choices.

Well, given these examples, maybe you should call it the ‘Simon Cowell Exception” — or the “SyCo Exception,” for short.

LMAO! Folk, have I told you lately how much I love you?

A token of my affection.

93.3 morning show host gave Adam a little kick in the ass this morning, but one of the guys on the show (Fester) is a big fan and loved the AMA performance. I hope they’ll start spinning the song.

LOL – I love Fester. Typically, I listen to that morning show (not today though, because my kids still have off and sometime their morning content is a little “old” for my little ones). The morning show (and now this may get confusing) is the MJ morning show. That’s the host’s name – not to be confused with our MJ or Michael Jackson LOL.

And thanks again Lucy, for the extra info

Interestingly – FLZ is claiming they have a BIG announcement of a new addition to their Jingle Ball line-up. Supposedly, they’ll announce it today between 5 – 6 pm. I wonder if it might be Kris? I was curious why he was doing the Orlando Christmas radio thing w/ Jordin but not Tampa. Since they’re only an hour’s drive apart and (I think) within one day of each other.

Of course, it could just be some other random band. They have a pretty good line-up so far (Jordin bores me to tears, but the others are all pretty interesting). If they added Kris, I might actually go (or Adam for that matter – but I don’t think he’s doing any of those).

FolkFan: Thanks for the research. It seems like a no-brainer to me that radio airplay would make it easier to move albums after the one-off of the album drop and all the PR associated with that. As you point out, there are the occasional exceptions, but really, it would be very unlikely (not impossible but very unlikely) an album would continue to sell at a brisk pace without radio support on some format or another.

FolkFan
11/30/2009 at 3:03 pm

How many spins put a song in the top 1000?

top 1000?

37% in

– 1 SUSAN BOYLE COLUMBIA 138,496
I DREAMED A DREAM
29 2 MILEY CYRUS HOLLYWOOD 107,999
TIME OF OUR LIVES
9 3 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 19/ARISTA NASHVILLE 70,441
PLAY ON
– 4 LADY GAGA INTERSCOPE 56,365
FAME MONSTER (EP)
– 5 ADAM LAMBERT 19/RCA/RMG 56,128
FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT
– 6 RIHANNA DEF JAM/IDJ 46,538
RATED R
8 7 MICHAEL JACKSON EPIC 45,656
THIS IS IT
15 8 NOW THAT’S WHAT I CALL MUSIC SONY MUSIC 44,666
NOW 32
7 9 TWILIGHT SAGA: NEW MOON CHOP SHOP/ATLANTIC 40,071
SOUNDTRACK
11 10 TAYLOR SWIFT BIG MACHINE 36,244
FEARLESS

10 22 KRIS ALLEN 19/JIVE/ZLG 17,005
KRIS ALLEN
– 40 DAUGHTRY 19/RCA/RMG 8,539
LEAVE THIS TOWN

I don’t have access to that at work, but if someone could check mediabase, i’d appreciate it. I recall it being pretty substantial but am leery of posting a guess.

As a note—I did this in week 51 of the chart year, and Michael Buble may have slipped into the top 50 by the end of week 52. He does have airplay, but I haven’t checked his placements. And I mistyped a couple of numbers—4 soundtracks and 2 radio hits comps left 44 CDs. The number and identity of the exceptions remain the same.

Here’s a link to the 50 top selling albums of last year:

Linky Poo

A quick persual seems to prove Folkfan right. I don’t see anyone on there that did not have a big hit on one format or another. Unless I am missing someone. There people were all on the radio this year.

The artist ranking at #1000 on the YTD airplay chart is the Zombies with 18925 spins. The slightly more current Yeah Yeah Yeahs are #999 with 18942 total spins. And for context, Taylor Swift is #1 with 1,364,470 spins YTD (note that she is also the #1 album seller of the year via the link tinawina posted above).

I posted this last week and don’t have time right now to update the spincounts to include the past week or so, but as of 11/18 here are the Idols who rank in the top 1000 YTD:

RANK/ARTIST/SPINS

8 KELLY CLARKSON 660252
15 DAUGHTRY 506245
43 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 307856
51 DAVID COOK 281175
54 JORDIN SPARKS 276397
138 JENNIFER HUDSON 133637
228 KELLIE PICKLER 79944
287 DAVID ARCHULETA 63977
431 BUCKY COVINGTON 37587
481 ELLIOTT YAMIN 33166
513 FANTASIA 30734
586 JOSH GRACIN 25269
703 RUBEN STUDDARD 19073
856 KRIS ALLEN 13419

Thanks, Tinawina! Love the present, and I love it when we agree.

Now, back to work for me….

Testing to see if my post goes through.

KLTG-FM, a Hot AC station in Corpus Christi, has added WWFM.

37% in

‘“ 1 SUSAN BOYLE COLUMBIA 138,496
I DREAMED A DREAM
29 2 MILEY CYRUS HOLLYWOOD 107,999
TIME OF OUR LIVES
9 3 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 19/ARISTA NASHVILLE 70,441
PLAY ON
‘“ 4 LADY GAGA INTERSCOPE 56,365
FAME MONSTER (EP)
‘“ 5 ADAM LAMBERT 19/RCA/RMG 56,128
FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT
‘“ 6 RIHANNA DEF JAM/IDJ 46,538
RATED R
8 7 MICHAEL JACKSON EPIC 45,656
THIS IS IT
15 8 NOW THAT’S WHAT I CALL MUSIC SONY MUSIC 44,666
NOW 32
7 9 TWILIGHT SAGA: NEW MOON CHOP SHOP/ATLANTIC 40,071
SOUNDTRACK
11 10 TAYLOR SWIFT BIG MACHINE 36,244
FEARLESS

10 22 KRIS ALLEN 19/JIVE/ZLG 17,005
KRIS ALLEN
‘“ 40 DAUGHTRY 19/RCA/RMG 8,539
LEAVE THIS TOWN

Did anyone predict Miley Cyrus to sell that many CD’s last week and move up that high on the chart?

^^ i was wondering about miley too…. could be due to black friday most likely

Just so everybody knows the 1st HDD update usually favors country over other genres. Most think the 1st update is Walmart or at least most of Walmart’s sales.

WHOA @ Miley. That one I can’t explain although @ Pulse they’re joking it’s because of her Twilight hate. LOL.

Comparing to last week @ 37.17%:

Kris is only down 35% so far. That’d put him in the 50-55k range if he could keep it up. Comparatively John Mayer’s sales are down 65% compared to last week.

Gaga’s Fame is only projecting to 85k compared to last week which could mean the reporting order’s different considering HDD said it would sell 130-150k. But if Fame Monster’s on the same sales pattern as Fame it’s projecting to 189k which is around where HDD said it would be.

HDD chart interesting so far. I agree – Miley? Out of nowhere, wow. Yep, if Kris can hang in with a lower-than-average drop for his second week, that would be great, and partially support my theory that his fans are as laid back as he is and don’t rush out to the store (This is a joke, peeps, sort of).

Meanwhile – LLWD up to #38 on iTunes today. I don’t know exactly what to make of it – nothing really changed over the weekend except that it was featured on the VH1 Top 20 countdown, and performed this morning on Bonnie Hunt. It’s moved up 18-ish spots since Friday.

ETA to above (couldn’t edit): Yes, increased airplay for LLWD, I know that, meant to include that in my comment of things that changed over the weekend, but still …. it’s a big move on iTunes.

WHOA @ Miley. That one I can’t explain although @ Pulse they’re joking it’s because of her Twilight hate. LOL.

Miley’s numbers could come from her walmart cooperation.

Meanwhile ‘“ LLWD up to #38 on iTunes today. I don’t know exactly what to make of it ‘“ nothing really changed over the weekend except that it was featured on the VH1 Top 20 countdown, and performed this morning on Bonnie Hunt. It’s moved up 18-ish spots since Friday.

Well, looks like, if people hear it, some definitely want to buy it, right? That seems like very good news, to me!

9 3 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 19/ARISTA NASHVILLE 70,441

Wow! Go Carrie. That’s awesome for only 37% in, too.

Nice to see Daughtry’s album get back in the top 50. They did a nice job on the AMAs, too.

Yeah, I was surprised by Miley as well — her name hadn’t even been mentioned in HDD over the week. Heh. I love darkhorse surprises.

Eta: so last week’s debuters are all down:

6 12 JUSTIN BIEBER ISLAND/IDJMG 33,346
3 14 NORAH JONES BLUE NOTE 28,252
1 16 JOHN MAYER COLUMBIA 26,363
4 29 50 CENT SHADY/AFTERMATH/INT 12,703

Meanwhile ‘“ LLWD up to #38 on iTunes today. I don’t know exactly what to make of it ‘“ nothing really changed over the weekend except that it was featured on the VH1 Top 20 countdown, and performed this morning on Bonnie Hunt. It’s moved up 18-ish spots since Friday.

Well, looks like, if people hear it, some definitely want to buy it, right? That seems like very good news, to me!

Which when combined with Kris’s current predictions for album sales this week makes me think the calls regarding his career being dead and in trouble were highly exagerated.

Miley’s numbers could come from her walmart cooperation.

Thanks anijsch. That’d explain it.

By the way Miley’s probably not going to go up too much more. Her EP is Walmart exclusive and here’s how her updates were last week:

37.17%: 29,112
FINAL: 30,864

Judging by that this week she’ll probably end up with 110-115k. Amazing increase though!

I remember saying that the time to look at LLWD’s i-Tunes #s would be if it made top 20 or top 15 Hot AC and top 25/30 Pop. If it still wasn’t increasing then it was a dud but seems it’s starting to tick up which is good

Miley’s numbers could come from her walmart cooperation.

Yep, that would do it. The first HDD update typically includes a portion of Walmart (and often Best Buy and Target). As windmills alluded to above, the second Walmart report is generally believed to be weighted more heavily towards the more urban store locations. That will usually come in the third or final update. iTunes is usually in the second or third. Amazon does not report directly to HDD so they will be estimated, usually in the final update.

But as with everything we talk about – “typically” doesn’t mean always. The order that retailers report and the number of updates HDD posts does often vary. As you track certain albums closely week to week you’ll be able to get a feel for it, but we never know for sure what’s been reported.

Wow. “FYE” is is a certified bomb on the radio, and yet it’s currently Adam’s highest-charting song on iTunes. “WWFM” is the new single, is out-performing “FYE” on radio, yet it isn’t selling on iTunes.

Worst radio rollout ever?

Thanks, jersey. Everything I know I owe to FolkFan, ladymadonna, SashaB, 123skyabc, and Jan. Most of my posts are pretty derivative. Heh.

Wow. ‘FYE’  is is a certified bomb on the radio, and yet it’s currently Adam’s highest-charting song on iTunes. ‘WWFM’  is the new single, is out-performing ‘FYE’  on radio, yet it isn’t selling on iTunes.

Worst radio rollout ever?

Adam’s radio rollout, IMO, has been an utter mess.

9 3 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 19/ARISTA NASHVILLE 70,441

Wow! Go Carrie. That’s awesome for only 37% in, too.

Nice to see Daughtry’s album get back in the top 50. They did a nice job on the AMAs, too.

Yeah, I was surprised by Miley as well ‘” her name hadn’t even been mentioned in HDD over the week. Heh. I love darkhorse surprises.

Eta: so last week’s debuters are all down:

Well, you really can’t tell at this point. …. Nobody really seems to know for sure which outlets usually report first, but based on the fact that country artists often tend to show surprisingly strong numbers at first, many speculate that the first third of sales reported may be all Walmart sales. If that’s true, it might well account for where Miley and Carrie are charting now and suggest that they probably won’t hold onto those spots. Only time will tell, though, of course.

Wow. ‘FYE’  is is a certified bomb on the radio, and yet it’s currently Adam’s highest-charting song on iTunes. ‘WWFM’  is the new single, is out-performing ‘FYE’  on radio, yet it isn’t selling on iTunes.

Worst radio rollout ever?

Except that WWFM has barely started to get significant spins at radio, and FYE has had major attention paid to it all week — with the video and what was that other thing? Oh, yeah, the horrible AMA performance that destroyed Adam’s sales! That was it. lol.

If that’s true, it might well account for where Miley and Carrie are charting now and suggest that they probably won’t hold onto those spots. Only time will tell, though, of course.

They won’t. Like I said Miley barely increased last week after the 1st update. If it’s true that the 1st update includes Best Buy and not just Walmart then that would explain Carrie’s great update too because Play On was on sale for $6.99 for Black Friday at Best Buy. Even if Best Buy isn’t included she’s trending for 150-160k max so that’d still put her behind Boyle, Bocelli, Adam, Gaga, and probably Rihanna plus probably others I’ve forgotten. I think HDD’s weekend predictions said Carrie’d be #7 and I’m not seeing anything to contradict that yet.

Last year we had good evidence of Best Buy and Target being in the first update (due to exclusives showing up in the first update and/or spikes from store-specific sales). So, the first update is typically partial from the three big boxes. Typically, but as LadyM says, not 100% of the time. I’d bet that’s a typical update, though.

Even if Miley’s numbers stay like that till the end she’ll be able to be top 10, which HDD didn’t predict.
Also, I don’t see Archie’s album there at the moment. Maybe it could appear, but last week HDD didn’t have it on top 50 and the album was top 50, I believe. The sales have increased this week, so in the end it should belong there.

Except that WWFM has barely started to get significant spins at radio, and FYE has had major attention paid to it all week ‘” with the video and what was that other thing? Oh, yeah, the horrible AMA performance that destroyed Adam’s sales! That was it. lol.

Barely started to get significant spins? “FYE” was charting higher on iTunes with the SAME NUMBER of spins…before the AMA performance and the music video.

This radio rollout is a confusing disaster.

Also, I don’t see Archie’s album there at the moment. Maybe it could appear, but last week HDD didn’t have it on top 50 and the album was top 50, I believe. The sales have increased this week, so in the end it should belong there.

Yeah, I would imagine it will be there on Soundscan. I don’t know squat about Christmas albums but I’m guessing Black Friday and perhaps the next 2 weeks following would be when those things peak. Does anyone know if that is right? I imagine a lot of those are purchased for holiday parties and family get-togethers, stuff like that. Doesn’t seem like the kind thing you buy right before Christmas.

leome yeah last week archie’s was in the top 50, but for whatever reason it wasnt on the HDD chart… the lowst on the chart i think was 14k and his came in at 18k

–

i think they peak closer to christmas or christmas week actually. a lot of people buy them last minute to listen to on christmas eve and on christmas…

how many times am i going to write christmas in this post..?

Except that WWFM has barely started to get significant spins at radio, and FYE has had major attention paid to it all week ‘” with the video and what was that other thing? Oh, yeah, the horrible AMA performance that destroyed Adam’s sales! That was it. lol.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think FYE has ever had the audience numbers that WWFM has now. (or even half of it, actually. )

WWFM has two more adds. Up to 8 today. Now it just needs spins!

If that’s true, it might well account for where Miley and Carrie are charting now and suggest that they probably won’t hold onto those spots. Only time will tell, though, of course.

They won’t. Like I said Miley barely increased last week after the 1st update.

I know.

I always like to leave open a little bit of doubt, though, just in case something truly bizarre happens — like that Miley doesn’t sell any more but neither does anyone else! …

Except that WWFM has barely started to get significant spins at radio, and FYE has had major attention paid to it all week ‘” with the video and what was that other thing? Oh, yeah, the horrible AMA performance that destroyed Adam’s sales! That was it. lol.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think FYE has ever had the audience numbers that WWFM has now. (or even half of it, actually. )

No. WWFM’s audience numbers are much bigger. I was talking about spin count, as I believe I mentioned in my post. The audience numbers vary, obviously, because one was picked up by smaller stations, and one (WWFM) by three humungous stations!)

I was looking at the mediabase add board for both Adam and Kris. I noticed that most/all of the songs off of Kris’s album (except for maybe the bonus tracks) are listed, but only FYE and WWFM are listed for Adam. Does this mean anything? Since none of Kris’s other songs have any spins, I’m assuming it’s just some sort of quirk in the way they are listed.

i think they peak closer to christmas or christmas week actually. a lot of people buy them last minute to listen to on christmas eve and on christmas’ ¦

Oh. really? Thanks for the info!

So bottom line.. the next few weeks should be major Archie tracking time. And look for him to have a great Christmas week! Cool.

Barely started to get significant spins? ‘FYE’  was charting higher on iTunes with the SAME NUMBER of spins

Yeah, but it was charting with the same number of spins *and* a huge amount of external publicity — a tv appearance that apparently caused some tectonic plates to shift somewhere. And a video.

Many people have been commenting lately about how a big tv appearance and a popular youtube video puts you ahead of the game, at least temporarily, compared to a song that just has radio spins. And a good example is Susan Boyle — pretty much *no* radio spins, but what a hot seller is she!

For myself, I’d prefer not to decide how well the rollout works until after WWFM has been out to radio for at least a week or so more!

yeah hopefully.. lol Im not exactly clear on the peaks for xmas albums but i think its close to there….. he’s not doing to shabby for an xmas album with hardly any promo at all…. (i wont get into the pitfalls haha because i could rant all day and night)

WWFM has two more adds. Up to 8 today.

I think its up to 10 adds now.

Yeah, but it was charting with the same number of spins *and* a huge amount of external publicity ‘” a tv appearance that apparently caused some tectonic plates to shift somewhere. And a video.

I’ll say it again: “FYE” was charting higher with the same number of spins BEFORE the AMA performance and the music video.

For myself, I’d prefer not to decide how well the rollout works until after WWFM has been out to radio for at least a week or so more!

err…what about FYE’s rollout? Nobody’s counting this song anymore?

.

Except that WWFM has barely started to get significant spins at radio,

This point in time for WWFM is very reminiscent of the early career of LLWD. It was doing quite terribly on itunes, IIRC, but had a high AI early on, especially due to spins in very highly concentrated markets (NYC especially). There is a timing issue with this, and FYE has definitely been in the forefront of the media/PR blitz from last week, hence the high sales without airplay. WWFM will gain traction as it gains more radio coverage around the country.

Except that WWFM has barely started to get significant spins at radio, and FYE has had major attention paid to it all week ‘” with the video and what was that other thing? Oh, yeah, the horrible AMA performance that destroyed Adam’s sales! That was it. lol.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think FYE has ever had the audience numbers that WWFM has now. (or even half of it, actually. )

Yeah, but WWFM has only had those numbers for a week or less. Plus, since most of the spins at this point are in just two cities, that’s definitely going to limit somewhat the number of sales they’ll spur….

That’s exactly what happened with LLWD. At first, it had a big audience impression because it was getting a ton of spins in New York City — but the sales numbers didn’t start getting higher until it got spins in *more* *cities.* …. Sometimes you can even get more sales from a lower audience impression, it looks like, depending on how that audience impression is spread around the country. …

Getting the lion’s share of our spins in two cities appears to me to be a bit less of a sales driver than getting your spins in more places, even if those two cities are big one ….

In addition, of course, the first week or two somethign is on the air you don’t get that many sales because the song hasn’t become anybody’s ear worm yet. That’s also illustrated by the LLWD trajectory, i would say.

Just had to add – major SQUEEE for Adam being #2 on the HOT AC adds right now! It is such a great feeling to see him on those lists with all the big names. Ahh, I’m so happy for his success Here’s to many many more years of it!

You are right, up to 10 adds today!

WWFM’s audience numbers are much bigger. I was talking about spin count, as I believe I mentioned in my post. The audience numbers vary, obviously, because one was picked up by smaller stations, and one (WWFM) by three humungous stations!)

If we’re talking about sales, the audience numbers are much more important than the number of spins. The more people hearing it, the more potential buyers. Number of spins are good for those radio format charts, but AI is what brings those sales.

I believe Kellie got her sales from Taylor Swifts long coattails. Radio and youtube helped, but touring with and being BFF’s with Taylor probably had more impact.

ETA: The post that this was in response to seems to have disappeared, so nvm!

I’ll say it again: ‘FYE’  was charting higher with the same number of spins BEFORE the AMA performance and the music video.

Okay, it probably was. … What do you make of that?

What I make of it is that maybe more people want to *buy* FYE, but radio stations don’t want to play it but radio stations do want to play WWFM, which people don’t want to buy.

If that’s really the case — that the only song radio will play is a song that people won’t buy, while the only song that people will buy is a song that radio won’t play (and thus not many people will ever know it exists, in order to buy it) — then I would say not that they screwed up his rollout, but that his rollout is impossibly screwed just by the nature of things. You obviously need to find some song that will both get radio spins and generate sales. And they apparently failed to pick such a song on their first two go-rounds ….

So, if that’s the case, do you have an idea about what song on the album woudl actually be playable by radio and generate single sales? Or is there no such song on the album at all?

err’ ¦what about FYE’s rollout? Nobody’s counting this song anymore?

I’m talking about the *album* rollout and the rollout of Adam the album performer. Not the rollout of individual songs.

I don’t even know what it means to talk about the rollout of individual songs being screwed up! I mean, either you’ve got a song that you can promote and have radio play, or you don’t. …. And it seems pretty clear that with FYE they didn’t. … While with WWFM, it appears that they do, so far. ….

So what would it mean to say that the FYE rollout was screwed up? Seems to me that all you’re saying is that they picked the wrong song there. Not that they somehow botched the way they introduced it.

So Kellie Pickler ranks 228/1000 and has had 80,000 spins this year. That’s less than 300 spins a day divided over 50 states that is 6 spins per state divided over at least a few radio stations.

In the same time she has a You tube video which has been up for two years and has 1.5 million views. Thats roughly 750,000 views per year which is about 2100 views per day.

Now, if I was looking at those numbers I would think that Kellie got a lot more exposure from You Tube then she did from radio.

LMAO. Tess, you sure are persistent. I’ll give you that.

1. You have no idea how many of those YouTube views are repeat views from hardcore fans, and you don’t know how many of them happened THIS YEAR.

2. Also, the bulk of Kellie’s spins came from her, you know, hit song. The duet with Taylor Swift. And that list is spins, not audience impressions. Country radio has huge audience impressions.

Not for nothing, but why do you fight the radio thing so much? I don’t get it.

ETA: What happened to the post? MJ, please delete if you need to.

If we’re talking about sales, the audience numbers are much more important than the number of spins. The more people hearing it, the more potential buyers. Number of spins are good for those radio format charts, but AI is what brings those sales.

Yes, I’m aware of that.

However, it’s also pretty clear that it’s *where* the audience impressions are that also makes the difference. If you just keep getting higher and higher audience impressions in one or two big cities that spin the crap out of your song, then the number of sales that are generated by *that* audience impression are pretty clearly limited, and history bears this out.

Once you’ve tapped out that first market, you can get audience impressions out the wazoo and not necessarily sell that much more. You need more spins in more places to keep generating the sales, clearly.

So, yeah, audience impressions matter the most for sales, in a way, but they’re by a long shot not the only thing that matters.

WWFM has been played on Open House Party at least 4 nights that I know of. Saturday it was played twice. Last night it was played 3 times. My local station has yet to play it, but carries OHP-so it was played by default. I think these spins will help get it out to more people and hopefully they will start requesting it. A few peeps at work mentioned they had heard Adam on the radio last night. (and they said it was a great song-they acted a little surprised)

Worst radio rollout ever?

Um, no. Those would be the ones that get no radio play at all. But, Taylor Hicks would probably be able to explain this better than I can

Oh, LOL – so the news from that Tampa radio station that I mentioned earlier in the thread? Actually kind of cracks me up now ….

http://blogs.tampabay.com/tbt/2009/11/adam-lambert-to-host-933s-jingle-ball-on-dec-13.html

Oh, LOL ‘“ so the news from that Tampa radio station that I mentioned earlier in the thread? Actually kind of cracks me up now ‘ ¦.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/tbt/2009/11/adam-lambert-to-host-933s-jingle-ball-on-dec-13.html

He wont be singing though…

Actually, I would not say Adam’s is the worst. Has it been confusing? Yes. But if anything, the fact that the label pulled out all the stops to get another song teed up in a hurry, and it seems to be working(!), shows you just how much RCA is behind the guy. If it were anyone else I’d say the label would have just let them twist in the wind until January. This way, he will at least have some headway going into the new year, and he won’t have as much ground to make up. I bet they come up with a way to keep him in the news the first couple of weeks in January for good measure. Adam will be fine… he will get his radio hit.

Oh, LOL ‘“ so the news from that Tampa radio station that I mentioned earlier in the thread? Actually kind of cracks me up now ‘ ¦.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/tbt/2009/11/adam-lambert-to-host-933s-jingle-ball-on-dec-13.html

Kinda weird that he is not performing, but glad to see Adam participating in these events

However, it’s also pretty clear that it’s *where* the audience impressions are that also makes the difference. If you just keep getting higher and higher audience impressions in one or two big cities that spin the crap out of your song, then the number of sales that are generated by *that* audience impression are pretty clearly limited, and history bears this out.

Once you’ve tapped out that first market, you can get audience impressions out the wazoo and not necessarily sell that much more. You need more spins in more places to keep generating the sales, clearly.

So, yeah, audience impressions matter the most for sales, in a way, but they’re by a long shot not the only thing that matters.

WWFM is like 2 weeks old or something, it has definitely not reach that point, it needs months for that to happen. 20 small markets playing a song can limit sales numbers a lot more than only two stations playing it if those 2 are in NY and LA.
I don’t think WWFM is doing bad or good in sales, time will tell that, but really, having KIIS and Z100 spinning the crap out of it is a lot better than all those small stations that were playing FYE.

12 adds so far today for WWFM…pretty good

Kinda weird that he is not performing, but glad to see Adam participating in these events

That is really odd. There are supposed to be more details at 5:45. I’ll try and catch it – but I’m trying to make dinner simultaneously – and I’m not the best multi-tasker in the world!

I can’t believe I coughed up $100 a ticket to see Adam emcee. But it says meet and greet! The AI concert wasn’t much cheaper. And I like the Fray

WWFM is now up to 14 adds for this week.

WWFM is now up to 14 adds for this week.

Wow. That seems good, right?

If it’s true that the 1st update includes Best Buy and not just Walmart then that would explain Carrie’s great update too because Play On was on sale for $6.99 for Black Friday at Best Buy.

Hm, did the price go back up? If that was the case with Carrie, then I’m sure it was the same for Kris and Adam, too? Adam did have that $3.99 promotion on Amazon, too. I just checked Best Buy, and it’s selling for $13.99 just like Adam and Kris’s albums. Maybe they were trying to drive more bodies into their retail stores w/those price reductions, and BB isn’t necessarily trying to be the e-tailer of choice.

Kinda weird that he is not performing, but glad to see Adam participating in these events

its not weird.. archie was a host at a boo bash last year and didnt perform. Jordin was there too as well but i dont remember if she performed or not.

I think even the hosting gig is another thing you do in exchange for spins. So, if it gets him some play on this station, then it would be a good thing.

What does a host do, exactly? Well, Lambert’s role will be to keep the festivities moving and the crowd pumped up between songs. The station is planning to cram 10 performers into less than 5 hours, so a host will be required to move things along. (Lambert isn’t the only celebrity pulling host duty at concerts like this — Ryan Seacrest and Gossip Girl’s Leighton Meester are also hosting big year-end concerts.)

Adam Hosting… I think it is kinda cool. IMO Adam needs to show his personal side after AMA, so this is probably a good gig. It’ll be great for some sound bites. However Adam isn’t known for his brevity… he’s a bit of a talker. LOL

All of the adds are finally in.

Hot AC
Adam 10
Daughtry 8 (6 monitored)
Carrie 6
Jason 3
Kris 2

AC
Susan Boyle 8 (1 unmonitored)
Carrie 2
Daughtry 2
Archie 2 (1 for Have Yourself A Very Merry Christmas and 1 for Melodies of Christmas)
Kellie 1

The Z-100 listeners have no excuse for not having heard WWFM or LLWD — Kris has gotten 7 spins and Adam 5 spins on that station so far today…

WWFM is now up to 14 adds for this week.

Wow. That seems good, right?

Hell yeah! That’s awesome!
The word at Pulse is that #5 station in Dallas will add tomorrow. We will see!

CHART DATE: 11/30/2009
LAST UPDATE: 11/30/2009 16:21:44
NOW IN: 54.98%

LW TW artist / album label power index
– 1 SUSAN BOYLE COLUMBIA 267,516
I DREAMED A DREAM
29 2 MILEY CYRUS HOLLYWOOD 107,999
TIME OF OUR LIVES
– 3 ADAM LAMBERT 19/RCA/RMG 98,401
FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT
– 4 LADY GAGA INTERSCOPE 90,015
FAME MONSTER (EP)
9 5 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 19/ARISTA NASHVILLE 87,748
PLAY ON
– 6 RIHANNA DEF JAM/IDJ 81,611
RATED R
2 7 ANDREA BOCELLI DECCA 74,608
MY CHRISTMAS
15 8 NOW THAT’S WHAT I CALL MUSIC SONY MUSIC 59,504
NOW 32
– 9 SHAKIRA COLUMBIA 58,640
SHE WOLF
6 10 JUSTIN BIEBER ISLAND/IDJMG 56,798
MY WORLD

10 31 KRIS ALLEN 19/JIVE/ZLG 22,273
KRIS ALLEN

Ok there is a contradiction on how many adds Adam got today. Pam says 10 and others say 14. How many is it?

If I had to guess, I’d say that iTunes just hit.

These sales numbers keeping listing Kris at #10 from last week – I thought he was #11?

looks like Miley’s numbers stayed the same from when it was at 37%. Is that right?

Ok there is a contradiction on how many adds Adam got today. Pam says 10 and others say 14. How many is it?

My guess is that some are counting some of the top 40 adds in with that. It kind of gets confusing to lump those into the mix too on Monday when the official top 40 add day is tomorrow. That’s my theory anyway.

ETA: Yep, that’s where the 14 is coming from the combination of the top 40 (so far) and the HAC adds.

I was looking at the real time mediabase chart and it has the spins broken down by time of day. ovn (I assume means overnight), amd, mid and eve. What is the most desirable time of day to have a record spin? I would “assume” eve if that means evening. Just curious.

Ok there is a contradiction on how many adds Adam got today. Pam says 10 and others say 14.

There are 10 HOT AC adds, and 4 Top 40 adds are early. Since Top 40 is officially counted tomorrow, those will be added into tomorrows total.

But 10 HOT AC puts Adam in 2nd place right after John Mayer, which is nice.

I was looking at the real time mediabase chart and it has the spins broken down by time of day. ovn (I assume means overnight), amd, mid and eve. What is the most desirable time of day to have a record spin? I would ‘assume’  eve if that means evening. Just curious.

am and pm are the two most desirable time slots because they are the rush hour times. You get the most audience impressions during those times.

ovn = 12mid-6am
am = 6am-10am
mid = 10am-3pm
pm = 3pm-7pm
eve = 7pm-12mid

Well, at least Kris will break 100k this week

These sales numbers keeping listing Kris at #10 from last week ‘“ I thought he was #11?

These numbers are from HDD, not soundscan/nielsen. The prediction for Kris was of almost 85 k per HDD but he sold only 80 k per nielsen.

LLWD is currently the number 1 song on the Rate the Music survey in the HAC format:

1) Live Like We’re Dying
Kris Allen
2) Already Gone
Kelly Clarkson
3) Come On
Green River Ordinance
4) Break Even
Script
5) Life After You
Daughtry
6) Halfway Gone
Lifehouse
7) Someday
Rob Thomas
8.) No Surprise
Daughtry
9) Use Somebody
Kings Of Leon
10) Sex On Fire
Kings Of Leon

http://www.ratethemusic.com/index.cgi/rtm?email=&raterid=&chart=rtm_12

Hm, did the price go back up? If that was the case with Carrie, then I’m sure it was the same for Kris and Adam, too? Adam did have that $3.99 promotion on Amazon, too. I just checked Best Buy, and it’s selling for $13.99 just like Adam and Kris’s albums. Maybe they were trying to drive more bodies into their retail stores w/those price reductions, and BB isn’t necessarily trying to be the e-tailer of choice.

Yes the price was only for stores (not online) and it was only for Black Friday shopping. I don’t know what the prices for Adam’s and Kris’s albums were at Best Buy but I don’t think either had the $6.99 price. Adam probably had regular 1st week discounting at all stores so I’d guess his album was no more than $9.99 anywhere. Adam had the $3.99 Amazon MP3 store sale but neither Carrie nor Kris did.

The 2nd update BTW was probably Target according to a chart expert @ a Carrie fan site Taylor’s holiday CD is a Target exclusive and it just showed up on the charts.

Unfortunately the Target update was not as good to Kris so he’s now looking at closer to a 49% dropoff with sales in the range of 40-45k. Still pretty good IMO. Carrie’s projection now would be around 125k which is closer to what HDD thought she would do.

Where are the rest of SuBo’s sales coming from? She still seems short about 350-400K according to HDD? How can anyone predict Carrie’s final numbers from the one shown so far?

NOW IN: 54.98%

‘“ 3 ADAM LAMBERT 19/RCA/RMG 98,401
FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMEN

It looks like FYE sales are a little below 200K

It looks like FYE sales are a little below 200K

One thing I’ve learned from Kirsten is that it is impossible to extrapolate anything from these numbers as they roll in. They do not represent a percentage of sales – but percentage of retailers reporting. There’s still a lot of info missing here. That number is not representative of 54% of what Adam’s total number will be.

He could be below 200K or he could be above it. We just can’t tell from these numbers.

FolkFan
11/30/2009 at 6:49 pm
If I had to guess, I’d say that iTunes just hit.

Just a question, but I’m wondering why you think it might be iTunes? IIRC, a significant part of Adam’s expected first week sales were pre-orders, which would be coming from iTunes and, to a lesser extent, Amazon. If iTunes really is in that second update, it does look like FYE sales would end up well below the estimates we’ve been seeing this past week.

What the heck with the numbers for SuBo?

Thanks, ozarka, for the info about the times of day most desirable for spins. I had thought those times (morning and afternoon) might be best but then thought those were mostly dj’s talking, news and traffic reports with not much music.

That’s great for Kris that he has a jump on top 40. Definitely moving in the right direction.

I’m so curious how Allison will do.

It’s sad to me that David Cook doesn’t have a single out right now. If the label had put out a 3rd single a month or two ago, when it was expected by almost everyone, he’d be on the radio and the charts too. It’s not as if he didn’t have lots of good songs to choose from. It’s hard not to think about this! !&@(!!#%

Yeah, it’s basically impossible to guess the final numbers from the partial charts. Too many stores/sites still to be heard from.

kt_cle
11/30/2009 at 4:46 pm

I was looking at the mediabase add board for both Adam and Kris. I noticed that most/all of the songs off of Kris’s album (except for maybe the bonus tracks) are listed, but only FYE and WWFM are listed for Adam. Does this mean anything? Since none of Kris’s other songs have any spins, I’m assuming it’s just some sort of quirk in the way they are listed.

kt_cle: did you ever find out what this means? What does the media base add board have to do with radio or eventual radio play? Anyone? Thanks!

Congrats to Adam for the HAC adds today!

One of the number gurus please correct me if I’m wrong, but IIRC not all retail outlets report to HDD, but their numbers are in the final Soundscan totals. I believe Amazon is one of those, and HDD does some kind of estimate to account for them since they don’t get the real number. Since both SuBo and Adam had a bunch of Amazon preorders, it will be interesting to see how close HDD is to Soundscan. Also, I think I read somewhere (don’t remember where or if its even accurate) that SuBo sold around 80K at QVC, would those be included in the HDD number at all?

Where are the rest of SuBo’s sales coming from? She still seems short about 350-400K according to HDD?

I’m guessing she’ll get a huge Amazon bump, since her pre-orders there were supposed to be really high. Adam too.

significant part of Adam’s expected first week sales were pre-orders, which would be coming from iTunes and, to a lesser extent, Amazon.

I think the Amazon preorder was up way longer, so I expect Amazon’s to be bigger.

Also, I think I read somewhere (don’t remember where or if its even accurate) that SuBo sold around 80K at QVC, would those be included in the HDD number at all?

They will probably estimate it.

did you ever find out what this means? What does the media base add board have to do with radio or eventual radio play? Anyone? Thanks!

No, I haven’t figured anything out. But if you go here: http://addboard.mediabase.com/SongsMenu.asp

Search by artist. For both Adam and Kris, all of their AI songs are listed. For Adam, the only other songs are FYE and WWFM. For Kris, all of his album tracks (except the two special edition bonus tracks) are listed… as is a track from BNS (just noticed that!). I’m really curious if this is just a meaningless quirk or if there is some rhyme or reason behind it.

Where are the rest of SuBo’s sales coming from? She still seems short about 350-400K according to HDD? How can anyone predict Carrie’s final numbers from the one shown so far?

IA with tinawina – there’ll be a big Amazon bump and possibly a pretty big i-Tunes bump too since she hit #1 there. A good number of big box sales are obviously still out there and probably not just for her. If you figure she’ll sell like Bocelli then each week he has always taken a huge jump in the last update.

HDD does include QVC numbers – it’s mentioned them in estimates for people like Barry Manilow.

As far as predicting Carrie or anyone else who’s not debuting on the charts this week it just comes from comparing her sales at this point in reporting to last week’s sales at this point in reporting. That assumes the reporting order’s the same which isn’t always the case. It also assumes the pattern of sales will be the same where a percent increase or decrease will be the same across the board at all stores. It can definitely lead you wrong though. But if you want to predict anyway Carrie last week @ 54.98% reporting was 59,795 and this week @ 54.98% reporting she’s at 87,748. That’s 46.7% up from last week so if that held on then Carrie’s final update would be around 125.5k.

Based on this update Gaga’s Fame is trending much higher than it was before and above the HDD projections and Fame Monster is also trending WAY above them but I think this might one of those cases where the sales pattern is different from week to week.

“The Z-100 listeners have no excuse for not having heard WWFM or LLWD ‘” Kris has gotten 7 spins and Adam 5 spins on that station so far today’ ¦”

Girlygirl: LLWD has moved back up the Z100 playlist since last time I checked. It’s currently #12.

3) Come On
Green River Ordinance
4) Break Even
Script

Ooooh, David C.’s two opening acts seem to be doing well on Rate the Music.

The Brand New Shoes track has been on mediabase for adds for a while now but the album tracks weren’t there last week – it’s all confusing. Maybe that means Adam’s album tracks will be out next week (same number of weeks after album release as for Kris).

Ooooh, David C.’s two opening acts seem to be doing well on Rate the Music.

David C’s fans don’t have David C to vote for, so they help his opening acts. See, sometimes the hardcore fans signing for these things can do something good.

Search by artist. For both Adam and Kris, all of their AI songs are listed. For Adam, the only other songs are FYE and WWFM. For Kris, all of his album tracks (except the two special edition bonus tracks) are listed’ ¦ as is a track from BNS (just noticed that!). I’m really curious if this is just a meaningless quirk or if there is some rhyme or reason behind it.

I searched David Cook and all of his songs from his album are listed there as well. Still don’t know what it means. lol.

I just love how BNS is currently being up for adds. Do you think Kris will plan on releasing a more produced version of it?

aeyelle
“I just love how BNS is currently being up for adds. Do you think Kris will plan on releasing a more produced version of it?”

Hmmm… maybe that’s why he was in the studio last week or the week before??! Just dreaming…

Hooray for Adam and those HAC adds today! That is awesome news! Yea! I LOVE WWFM, and need to hear this song on the radio so badly

I bet they come up with a way to keep him in the news the first couple of weeks in January for good measure. Adam will be fine’ ¦ he will get his radio hit.

Lol – I have no idea how, but something tells me you’re right Just when I think I’ll have no Adam news, he pulls out another surprise and tears up the headlines. He’s pretty good at that.

And he definitely deserves radio play – not just WWFM, but a number of other songs on FYE are really really strong and radio friendly (Sleepwalker comes to mind immediately as very safe and radio friendly).

And he definitely deserves radio play ‘“ not just WWFM, but a number of other songs on FYE are really really strong and radio friendly (Sleepwalker comes to mind immediately as very safe and radio friendly).

While that might be true I think first he needs to get one song doing well on radio first. No reason to jump the gun on this.

December 1st a slow day for adds so far. Neither Adam nor Allison has gotten any adds today — and Kris has gotten just 1.

Still no update from HDD on the album sales — their chart is still stuck at 54.98% now in