Monday Morning Mediabase Update – Up Until Midnight 11/15/09

Anticipating the Questions:

Adam’s “Whataya Want For Me” was featured on Open House Party and got 75 spins last week (HAC 6, Pop: 69)

Daughtry’s ‘Life After You’  went for adds this week and had 960 spins last week (HAC:379, Pop: 577, MTV2: 4).

Jason’s “Let’s Just Fall in Love Again” was re-sent for adds last week. It had 317 spins last week (AC: 25, HAC:25, Pop:267).

Adam’s “For Your Entertainment” went for adds two weeks ago and received 507 spins last week (HAC:239, Pop:268)

Allison’s “Friday, I’ll Be Over You” went for adds three weeks ago. It received 80 spins last week (HAC:1, Pop:79)).

Some songs never go for adds. Radio stations don’t have to wait for add dates to start spinning songs. Not every song is intended for radio.

Spin totals are posted when songs are listed for adds or for 4 weeks post add (or post release for songs with no add date).

I’m not well versed in the music business, but as a member of the general listening audience it certainly appears as though many of the IDOLS are doing well on the charts, which is great. I’m happy to see that LLWD is doing well. I purchased this as my ringtone and ringback, and it’s amazing the number of positive comments I’ve received from people of all ages saying they love the song. I will certainly have FYE playing at my New Year’s party and Kelly, Daughtry and Jordin are all on my IPOD as well. Congrats to all of the IDOLs!

Idols below 50 on the Pop chart

65 52 DAUGHTRY Life After You 471 156 315 1.319
62 60 JASON CASTRO Let’s Just Fall In Love Again 246 230 16 0.442
72 66 ADAM LAMBERT For Your Entertainment 191 133 58 0.62
86 80 ALLISON IRAHETA Friday I’ll Be Over U 79 69 10 0.089
85 ADAM LAMBERT Whataya Want From Me 66 0 66 0.167

Weekends are tough but Kris could be close to a peak on Top 40. FYE could have used all those OHP spins that WWFM got.

Allison is absolutely going nowhere. What is Jive waiting for?

Whoa. Just listened to 107.9 McAllen HAC. The played FYE, said by Adam Lambert. Talked about 2012 theme song, new album, mention and he has another single off the album that’s really good. Sounds kind of P!nkish. Say he’ll be around for a while. Then played a taste of WWFM. After a bit in they started to talk over it but kept it playing in the background, talked about the AMAs and how on idol he was a “showboat-ish” but if you’ve got it, you need to flaunt it especially in the entertainment industry and the AMA show ought to be really good.

Are any of Archie’s Christmas tunes from his new album getting any spins yet? This post should start to look like a very Idol Christmas pretty soon I think.

Elvis Duran tweeted that they are also playing WWFM (its z100 right?). Gave up trying to understand it!

lol jpfan, since when was Bon Jovi and idol? Thanks for the chuckle. And YAY!! For Jason Castro getting up to 60!!

RT @Z100NewYork: RT @SkeeryJones: Now playing on @ElvisDuran & the Morning Show: Adam Lambert “Whatya Want From Me”

soooo whats going on with this song?
——————–

lady madonna,

KBEZ in tulsa has been giving spins to several of his songs. They originally sent out a 3 song sampler, hyamlc – joy to the world – melodies of xmas, and then they sent a sencond promo disc with just hyamlc(the duet). I heard one of the XM stations that went up played the duet this morning.

Sorry, Bon Jovi got there by mistake. I think WWFM has already been released to radio. RIP FYE.

Weekends are tough but Kris could be close to a peak on Top 40. FYE could have used all those OHP spins that WWFM got.

That’s what I’d been thinking. But now it looks like they really might be trying to chart both simultaneously. I’m totally boggled. This is one wild ride they’re taking us on.

Side note most of the xmas stations havent gone all xmas songs yet. And currently the ones on the charts are mostly from previous years so far.

I think radio has said No to FYE for whatever reason. They can’t have his album open next week with a flop single so they’re going immediately with single #2. He’ll perform both songs for awhile but the radio push will be 100% behind WWFM.

I think WWFM will be a much easier sell on radio and is a better song.
FYE has alot of things going against it.

That way there’s a chance for a hit single instead of putting all their $ on something that will probably flop. The poor sales numbers for FYE on iTunes probably sealed the deal.

Sorry, Bon Jovi got there by mistake.

They’ve been sung enough on Idol, that one should be forgiven for including them in a list of Idols. Bryan Adams and Phil Collins are almost Idols too.

But now it looks like they really might be trying to chart both simultaneously. I’m totally boggled. This is one wild ride they’re taking us on.

Looks that way to me too- but as we were discussing in another thread the other day- some artists seem to be doing this. Jay Z has two on the charts right now- I think someone else said Rihanna, and of course Taylor Swift.

They are not abandoning FYE- they wouldn’t have shot the video for it, and he certainly wouldn’t be performing it on AMA’s if that was the case.

RT @Z100NewYork: RT @SkeeryJones: Now playing on @ElvisDuran & the Morning Show: Adam Lambert ‘Whatya Want From Me’ 

Curiouser and curiouser. The Big Daddy of Pop is playing WWFM? Did they ever spin FYE?

Very puzzling. The next few days should tell the story.

This might be a dumb question, but how can one conclude that FYE is a flop after being out for such a short period of time?

I think radio has said No to FYE for whatever reason.

I don’t know. It’s possible. But the stations that have played it, are playing it well. And this am I’ve noticed more variety in the station call letters that are playing it. After we get the adds from today and tomorrow, I’ll decide whether or not I agree that they’re dropping it instead of pursuing both.

New artists don’t have multiple songs released to radio usually. If FYE has label support why is the label releasing another single to take spins away from it . makes no sense. But if FYE has a good adds this week, then the song has potential. I’ll still wonder why they released WWFM so early though.

Jay Z has two on the charts right now- I think someone else said Rihanna, and of course Taylor Swift.

Taylor Swift isn’t releasing two songs at once. She released a deluxe version of an album and that’s why so many songs charted (people were picking up the extra songs). She’s got so many songs on the radio because radio won’t stop playing her previous singles. The woman can’t sing without autotune help, but she sure knows how to write a song.

Isn’t Jay-Z going for two different formats? And anyway, he’s Jay-Z. The guy’s amazing.

Meanwhile, Rihanna’s not getting a great response (for her) from her first single, so they speed dropped a second. Plus, she’s Rihanna. Radio loves her.

I suggest comparing this situation to other artists who are debuting their first album and have a first single that’s wallowing in the 60s two weeks post add and one week before their album release.

The problem with pushing two singles is that it gives radio a choice and they’ll pick which one they want. It takes about 1000 spins for a song to hit Top 40. If the radio stations split evenly, that’s 500 spins per song and that’s not enough to even get into the Top 50.

Even if they weren’t thinking of dropping FYE, they might if radio takes a shine to WWFM faster than they did for FYE.

Again, did Z100 spins FYE? They spun WWFM the first chance they got.

J9BT
11/16/2009 at 8:45 am
This might be a dumb question, but how can one conclude that FYE is a flop after being out for such a short period of time?

Because it is moving very slow. Couple days in a row updates are really small with negative bullet. Maybe FYE does not fit radio during holiday season. I do not want to post TOP40 updates, because they are bad. Not funny anymore.

This might be a dumb question, but how can one conclude that FYE is a flop after being out for such a short period of time?

In my opinion you can’t, which is why I’m flummoxed by the apparent push for WWFM (whether the push is coming from RCA or from within the radio ranks I don’t know). If callout for FYE was weak and PDs were resistant and sales were anemic and they planned to move on quickly, why shoot what appears to be a massively expensive video just yesterday? Man, I would hate to see Adam’s recoupment account right now.

We spent more than 4 weeks hearing that it was too early to judge LLWD. Now FYE is a flop with two weeks and no promo? Why the double standards? They are both new artists outside the bubble. What will happen if the album is released and the single is still building? Nothing, it will sell more albums later rather than in the first week. Doom! Happened with a lot of artists.

Now, if it doesnt do well after the AMAs, radio promo and the video, I will agree with such statement.

My guess with WWFM is that they want to sell albums and show that FYE the album is not only electronica like FYE the single, but also rock and pop like WWFM and many others. They want to display the diversity a bit. But nevertheless, they know a lot more than I do, so I trust them.

If Jive had released another Kris Allen single to radio while LLWD was struggling, I think most people would wonder if they gave up on LLWD. It’s just makes sense even if it doesn’t turn out to be true.

This might be a dumb question, but how can one conclude that FYE is a flop after being out for such a short period of time?

We really can’t tell. But it is possible that RCA has been trying to push for adds and getting resistance from stations saying that the style won’t work with their viewers. If that’s the case, that could be the reason that it looks like they’re pushing WWFM. On the other hand, FYE may be going along swimmingly and they’ve decided they want to pursue a second single to multiply radio impressions. Or maybe the radio stations have decided to play it on their own without any input from RCA. I figure time will tell and I’ll just enjoy the ride.

The whole thing is puzzling is right. I am not sure why there are two songs (FYE, WWFM) being put out there at the exact time on the same format. Is there precedent for this? And does anyone think that one song will cancel out the other? So Adam is shooting a video of a song that radio might be rejecting? This is interesting to say the least.

I think you all re wrong about FYE and it being a non starter. Seriously, its path has not differed at all from LLWD or even some of the other non Idol related new songs out there. With the exception of Brittany and Gaga, very few artists are getting high spins right out of the gate. So I don’t know what you are comparing its course too. It’s inreasing in spins ( got about60 just yesterday if I read the media base info right) and we should see more radio adds. I think the only song I am worried about a bit is Allison’s. I forgot her single was out a week before Adam’s.

If Jive had released another Kris Allen single to radio while LLWD was struggling, I think most people would think that they’d given up on LLWD.

Almost certainly. But, like others, I don’t get the strategy here. I’m just going to wait and see what RCA is trying to do here, because it’s not apparent. In any event, though, it’s a bit of a strange phenomenon for a new artist…

Evidently WTMX teased they had adam’s new song, co-written by pink and that they would play it at some point.

to me it looks like they are probably switching songs..

I forgot her single was out a week before Adam’s.

Actually her single was released to iTunes (for the second time) the same day as Adam’s. But it was available for radio play weeks earlier (October 8th) when they did the iTunes mistake and had her single for sale for a short period of time.

My comment brought over from headlines since some discussion of WWFM and FYE.

Did anyone else here hear Adam’s WDYWFM on Elvis Duran this morning? I was a little unsure of their conclusions. One dj liked the words. One said they definitely liked it better than the ’2012 song’  and FYI.
They talked about playing it w/o letting folks know who was singing it. It was an interesting conversation. Two women callers called in and both liked it. One said it had an 80′s sound the the dj agreed.

ETA: In fact I’m pretty sure the one said they didn’t like FYE at all. Trying hard to remember everything.

Kirsten- i am pretty sure Z100 played FYE too. If I remember correctly people were wondering why they were playing it when it made it’s debut on Ryan’s station.

What two formats is Jay Z going for, and how do you know Adam isn’t doing the same? And “he’s Jay Z” or “she’s Rhianna” doesn’t really make a good excuse as to why they are releasing two. And also- Adam is NOT releasing WWFM as fars as anyone knows.

Justin Bieber is a new artist and he has two songs out too. I think this is just a new marketing tool that none of us AI’ers are used to.

I’m just gonna go with the flow- 3 Adam songs are better than 1 as far as I am concerned

Its obvious RCA isn’t giving up on FYE. If they thought it was a failure they wouldn’t have spent money on a music video yesterday. I see nothing wrong with having a third song out there. Artists do it all the time. Its nothing new.

If Jive had released another Kris Allen single to radio while LLWD was struggling, I think most people would think that they’d given up on LLWD.

I agree on this – it’s what makes the whole think with FYE and WWFM so confusing, especially since they just shot the MV for FYE yesterday. I think this is a conversation we would be having if jive had released something like BWCU because LLWD was not doing well. This whole thing is extremely confusing.

I’m also really worried about Allison – where is her marketing? Her song has been out longer than FYE.

Again, did Z100 spins FYE? They spun WWFM the first chance they got.

If you check the add history for FYE, Z100 hasn’t added it yet. That doesn’t mean they haven’t spun it but they didn’t add it. This is in contrast to them premiering LLWD and then adding LLWD before it’s official add date. And Z100 is usually seen as a leader for many of the smaller markets.

ETA: Here’s a link to the add history – WPLJ in NY (HAC) did add it but not Z100

http://addboard.mediabase.com/SongAddHistory.asp?startdate=&ob=5

They are not abandoning FYE- they wouldn’t have shot the video for it, and he certainly wouldn’t be performing it on AMA’s if that was the case.

This might be a dumb question, but how can one conclude that FYE is a flop after being out for such a short period of time?

ITA with all of the above. Right from the get-go, nothing has been the norm for Adam. Why should now be any different? Adam is unique and RCA is handling him in a unique way. We have no idea what they have planned. I’ve adopted a wait and see attitude.

edit: You need to just STEP AWAY from your computer. It Ain’t That Deep. Right? And yes, you’re banned.

If Jive had released another Kris Allen single to radio while LLWD was struggling, I think most people would think that they’d given up on LLWD.

I agree its unusual, but also Kris thing is not diversity, so yeah, I wold think they were dumping LLWD. But Adam thing always was mixing genres, so they need to run with it.

I don’t think they are giving up on FYE at all. They certainly wouldn’t have spent money on a video for it if that’s the case.

This is what I think (and is all speculation and just my humble opinion): RCA released FYE first because they wanted to establish an image out of the gate for Adam. Non-Idol Idol, risk-taker, ‘so hot out the box’ and not to be labelled the usual pop star. Stamping him, if you will, with the imagery that is evoked by the song’s edgy lyrics. Whether or not it takes off on the radio (and I think it still might), it declares who Adam is right away. WWFM, not sure if it was sent for adds or OHP just decided to play it on their own. But it clearly got a good response. If I remember correctly, the rumor early on was that WWFM was going to be the single. I think that was always the plan, and RCA decided to throw FYE out there instead in a branding effort…before putting the more radio-friendly song out (or leaking it, or whatever phenomenon has caused it to hit the airwaves).

I LOVE WWFM and can’t get enough of it. I don’t think it sounds like Adam covering Pink, it sounds like Adam turning the song into his own interpretation like he always does. It’s not a cover, though I heard from a friend that Z100 was suggesting that it is. Again, another reason why FYE went first. Didn’t need the stigma of “cover” with first song.

FYE will be played at the AMAs – again, branding effort. “Here’s your Americ…oops, that’s right. He didn’t win, folks. But here’s something different that Idol spawned, America – pay attention!” Then, when he goes on the talk show circuit, he has two choices to play. Those too squeamish for FYE will opt for WWFM.

Having multiple singles out is definitely…different. WWFM could end up the hit, with certainly more radio play opportunities than the dancey-edgey FYE. Or they could both be hits or both do mediocre. I don’t see anything tanking though or being written off as a failure. I think a lot is riding on the AMAs, whether or not we agree with the game plan. I personally think it’s an exciting approach.

I just checked the Mediabase history and Z100 spun FYE exactly once, on 11/02/2009. Should be interesting to see if they give WWFM more than an obligatory test.

Its obvious RCA isn’t giving up on FYE. If they thought it was a failure they wouldn’t have spent money on a music video yesterday. I see nothing wrong with having a third song out there. Artists do it all the time. Its nothing new.

A new artist floating multiple singles in the same genre, both attempting to make a break? Who the heck does that?

Justin Bieber is a new artist and he has two songs out too. I think this is just a new marketing tool that none of us AI’ers are used to.

Yeah, but that’s a little different. It’s one thing to start floating another single when the first one has been sitting at its ideal peak for a while now. It’s another thing to start floating two singles when the first one should still be building its momentum. Plus, aren’t Justin Bieber’s singles the kind that are multi-released from iTunes incrementally, like Carrie had? For all intent and purpose, her single is Cowboy Casonova, not the three other songs she also released.

I’m neutral on the S8 idols actually. I think Kris will have the lowest opening week of any Idol. Does that mean I hate Kris? And here’s the good news – nothing I post on this blog will have any effect on Adam’s career. In the slightest. Zero, nada.

He’ll do great or not totally independent of what I say on a blog. But I understand fans can be anxious this time of year so I’ll add. WWFM has real hit potential on radio.

I agree its unusual, but also Kris thing is not diversity, so yeah, I wold think they were dumping LLWD. But Adam thing always was mixing genres, so they need to run with it.

It’s not like they’re releasing another song to, say, rock radio. They’re releasing a song in the same genre, to the same format. That’s not a place where you want to out and out promote ‘diversity’ as a marketing strategy, for reasons Kirsten has described quite well in the past.

I agree its unusual, but also Kris thing is not diversity, so yeah, I wold think they were dumping LLWD. But Adam thing always was mixing genres, so they need to run with it.

Would people really think that about LLWD IF Kris still shot a video for it and planned to perform it in fron of a television audience of 12 million in less than a week?

I’ll say it again, at least one of the DJ on Z100 said this morning that they didn’t like FYE. The discussion was extremely interesting.

I think the vid was contractual with the parties involved, consequently RCA had to fulfill its obligation and shot the vid, or be sued.

Wow I didn’t know DJ’s held so much power. Isn’t their job to cater to the masses and not their musical preferences?

What two formats is Jay Z going for, and how do you know Adam isn’t doing the same?

Jay-Z aims for Urban, Rhythmic and Pop spins. Both of Adam’s song sound like Pop (and pop-light HAC) to me. Rhythmic is as big a format as Pop (and Urban is as big as HAC).

And ‘he’s Jay Z’  or ‘she’s Rhianna’  doesn’t really make a good excuse as to why they are releasing two.

These are established artists who have a proven track record on radio. Program Managers are more likely to have confidence to spin two songs from them than they are somebody who has never had a radio hit and whose current single isn’t exactly setting the charts on fire.

Jay-Z:
Empire State of Mind: ^1 Rhy (6), ^1 Urban (2), ^22 Pop (25)
Run This Town: 6 Rhy (3), 16 Pop (13), 16 Urban (12)

That’s why he can have two singles at once. They were aiming for two different markets and both singles were hits in both formats.

they are doing good going with WWFM. FYE is very dance so it has a more restricted audience in my opinion. WWFM will get a broader audience and i think it should do very well because it’s a good song

These are established artists who have a proven track record on radio. Program Managers are more likely to have confidence to spin two songs from them than they are somebody who has never had a radio hit and whose current single isn’t exactly setting the charts on fire.

Well, it can’t set the charts on fire if stations don’t spin it. Sounds like a Catch-22 to me.

Well if the only reason RCA made the video is because of contractual obligations and not because they had confidence in the song and were actively pushing it on radio that is a problem. Because that is a lot of money. If I was an Adam fan I would find this unsettling to say the least. Sounds like some major spaghetti throwing.

Wow I didn’t know DJ’s held so much power. Isn’t their job to cater to the masses and not their musical preferences?

A DJ can still have their music preference even if it doesn’t agree with the masses.

This is what I think (and is all speculation and just my humble opinion): RCA released FYE first because they wanted to establish an image out of the gate for Adam. Non-Idol Idol, risk-taker, ‘so hot out the box’ and not to be labelled the usual pop star. Stamping him, if you will, with the imagery that is evoked by the song’s edgy lyrics. Whether or not it takes off on the radio (and I think it still might), it declares who Adam is right away. WWFM, not sure if it was sent for adds or OHP just decided to play it on their own. But it clearly got a good response

rowenaaine , some interesting observations. I’m not sure how I feel about so many singles being out from the standpoint of potentially confusing Adam’s image, especially with TFM also muddying the waters, but this actually makes sense to me. IMO, FYE is the more daring, interesting “statement” song, but WWFM is WAY safer, in terms of being really catchy (it was very easy for that chorus to get stuck in my head), and very radio friendly.

It will be interesting to see if WWFM starts to really take off kind of out of nowhere, in terms of some DJs spinning it, and it just really being well received and getting a lot more spins from that. If that happens, and if the FYE stuff (AMA and mv) builds more interest in Adam “the wild, crazy, sexy” brand, I guess I’d be just fine with that

Not sure we can compare the release of the Jay-Z songs. They are both duets with two other popular artists. So, to me, they aren’t Jay-Z songs. I love Run this Town because I love Rihanna. Not loving the other because I’m not into Alicia Keys. But the duet partners impact the release of the songs, don’t they?

Well, at least this is kind of interesting.
I much prefer FYE than WYWM, but if the radio response is not good, then RCA is right in releasing another single as fast as they can, the next month is crucial for Adam and they need to capitalize on all this promo effort.

But as others suggest, they wouldn’t shoot a video and he won’t perform FYE on the AMA’s if they have dropped the song altogether.
I don’t believe in them releasing two singles at the same time neither, no one does that for a new artist in the same radio format.

All this leaves me kind of puzzled, but very interested in the next developpements.

During the discussion they said, are we on the air right now?” Kind of chuckled and then said, “well I think people want to know what we think.”

I’m quite certain DJs may not like half the songs they play on the radio.

sleepwalker has to be adams next single – its a near guaranteed hit

Can someone explain why there is an up arrow for some songs that chart lower and no up arrow for one charting higher? As an example:

Jordin Sparks:
‘Battlefield’ : 17 AC (19), 39 HAC (34)
‘S.O.S. (Let the Music’ ¦)’ : ^32 Pop (31)

It looks like many of the Idols are doing well and making their mark. As a fan of some of the talent we are exposed to from this show, that makes me feel somewhat vindicated.

Since Adam has 3 singles out, I hope that we get to have more from Kris and Allison.

A new artist floating multiple singles in the same genre, both attempting to make a break? Who the heck does that?

Adam lambert…. lol I see nothing wrong with it if that is what they are doing. RCA has not officially released WWFM as a single, and its not being sold anywhere except for on the AO website.

A male trying to make dance music work on radio has a mountain to climb. And Jay-Z is way out of any new artist’s league. (ducks head to avoid more crockery aimed at it.)

A male trying to make dance music work on radio has a mountain to climb.

True, but thats the fun of it. To me at least. In some ways, Adam is trying something new because he’s a man trying to break in a female dominated genre. Hopefully he can talk to Justin Timberlake to see how he did it.

There has been zero promotion for fye or WWFM for that matter. We do not have the complete sales numbers for fye from other sites but I bet RCA does. They are definately pushing the album which is doing very well in pre-orders on various sites and in varous countries. The real promo starts next week with actual performances of the song. RCA realizes that Adam is a visual artist and one of his greatest strengths is his stage presence. They want to give the full impact of Adam all at once. Killer performances and a strong, diverse debut album. FYE the singel, WWFM and the excellent MP were put out to stir up interest and whet the appetite, IMO.

cookcricket, that sounds like an interesting discussion..

A new artist floating multiple singles in the same genre, both attempting to make a break? Who the heck does that?

Adam?

Srsly. I have no idea what’s going on. But at this point w/o more information I’m not willing to call FYE dead. Yes, it’s stalled in the 60s on the Top40 chart. But it still got 70 more spins than the previous week. If growth continues, the chart will settle and it’ll move up again. Also it went from the 50′s to the 40′s on the HAC chart. Assuming the intent is still to perform FYE on the AMAs (and I can’t see them switching up the show that quickly), I think it’ll do well if it gets some added push from RCA this week so that it doesn’t fall back down the charts.

It’s possible these stations are electing to play the song on their own. If so, and if it gets enough spins I expect RCA will set an add date and get behind it. Or maybe they intend to keep pushing FYE to HAC, but change the Top40 focus to WWFM.

Today’s and tomorrow’s adds followed by the AMAs will give the best clue as to what is going on. But whatever it is, it’ll be a great one to analyze in retrospect.

Woohoo, #46 in HAC after being out 2 weeks! I’m happy. As far as RCA ‘s strategy, the long-timers on here have gone on and on about not being able to figure out RCA’s strategy so far with regard to radio and Adam, so pretty much discounting the conclusions you’ve made here. Just going to go with the flow and be happy there’s more Adam on the radio. My station just started spinning it here and it took them over 3 1/2 weeks to start spinning LLWD, so I’m happy!! Now awaiting the video of FYE and the TV promo ahead! Question? What does the ^mean?

jpfan
11/16/2009 at 9:32 am
A male trying to make dance music work on radio has a mountain to climb. And Jay-Z is way out of any new artist’s league. (ducks head to avoid more crockery aimed at it.)

LOL, no crockery from me, jpfan. I agree on both counts!

The real questions with WWFM: has it been sent for adds?

Run This Town was already high on the charts when Empire State of Mind was released. One Time was already high on the charts when One Less Lonely Girl was released and it’s not going for adds until the 1st of December.

FYE hasn’t charted yet, so it makes absolutely no sense to release another single unless they want to kill FYE off.

Personally, I think RCA has been leaking singles so that they can create more interest for the album. Not enough people have heard FYE for it to impact album sales and so releasing another track and getting radio stations to give it curiosity spins is another way of getting the buzz up.

All this overanalyzing really does take the fun out of stuff.
I say Adam should release the whole album. Throw it out there and see what sticks.

Any info on Danny and radio airplay?

Well, so far nothing that has been done for Adam has been ‘normal’ so I am taking a wait and see attitude. Neither song has had any promo… let’s see where they go on their own. It really is a roller coaster ride, loving it. RCA and Adam know what they are doing. If WWFM takes off it will pull FYE in with it, and vice versa. Interesting.

The real questions with WWFM: has it been sent for adds?

Not as far as we know unless it was done in super secret

It’s Only got 20 spins on country radio the past week. Has it officially been sent to radio for adds? I’m not sure.

dab1234 that’s all anyone can do ‘wait and see’ – he may be disgustingly success or he may just make enough to live modestly but either way I don’t see him eating dog food and living in a homeless shelter by this time next year.

CindyM
11/16/2009 at 9:36 am
Woohoo, #46 in HAC after being out 2 weeks! I’m happy.

^^^THIS! Me too, CindyM. I’m glad it’s getting spins and moving up. I don’t think it’s going to be a #1 top 40 song, but it’s going to continue getting spins and charting. I’m not a chart watcher (at least not until MJs got me doing it in the past few weeks LOL) so I’m not sure it matters how high a song charts as long as it is being played and sells. And I’ll stick with my theory that the FYE single is a branding effort and is only out there to sell the album (and Brand!Lambert). That seems to be where RCA’s focus has been (based on the push for the CE album on AO and the deluxe edition on iTunes) and I hope the strategy works.

There has been zero promotion for fye or WWFM for that matter. We do not have the complete sales numbers for fye from other sites but I bet RCA does. They are definately pushing the album which is doing very well in pre-orders on various sites and in varous countries. The real promo starts next week with actual performances of the song. RCA realizes that Adam is a visual artist and one of his greatest strengths is his stage presence. They want to give the full impact of Adam all at once. Killer performances and a strong, diverse debut album. FYE the singel, WWFM and the excellent MP were put out to stir up interest and whet the appetite, IMO.

What proof do we have that we don’t have sales numbers for FYE from other sites? What purpose would it serve RCA not to include numbers from all sites. It’s never happened in the past where weekly numbers didn’t include sites like Amazon, so why would it happen now? Considering that one arguement that is used is that the numbers that came out last week don’t include those who purchased the entire album off of Adam’s site, how is this arguement legitimate, since purchasing an album and purchasing a single are two different things.

Yeah, but that’s a little different. It’s one thing to start floating another single when the first one has been sitting at its ideal peak for a while now. It’s another thing to start floating two singles when the first one should still be building its momentum. Plus, aren’t Justin Bieber’s singles the kind that are multi-released from iTunes incrementally, like Carrie had?

All I know Mark is that Justin Bieber’s album comes out the same day as Adams and he already has 3 songs from it on the charts. I personally don’t think it makes adifference whether FYE should be building momentum right now, that WILL happen in less than a week, I have no doubt.

Bieber released his songs as follows, with the current chart position after it:

One Time: 6/7-#14
One Less Lonely Girl: 10/6- #42
Love Me:10/26- #43
Favorite Girl: 11/3 – #32

What’s to say they are not going to do the same with Adam?

rowenaaine
I’m not sure it matters how high a song charts as long as it is being played and sells.

Songs being played and selling –> how high a song charts.

babybelle32
11/16/2009 at 9:42 am
Considering that one arguement that is used is that the numbers that came out last week don’t include those who purchased the entire album off of Adam’s site, how is this arguement legitimate, since purchasing an album and purchasing a single are two different things.

I think the reason this argument was put forth, babybelle32, is that by purchasing the album peeps got to download the single right away. So there was no need to buy the single nor did anyone have to wait for the album to be released. So that’s a lot of “singles” that didn’t need to get bought, thus keeping the singles total down.

If WWFM takes off it will pull FYE in with it, and vice versa. Interesting.

I wouldn’t bank on this as the songs are so different

If WWFM takes off it will pull FYE in with it, and vice versa.

If that happens it will be a major chart anomaly. Cannibalization of one song or the other or both would be much, much more likely based on normal chart behavior. But I guess that’s the whole Black Swan theory, huh? There’s no such thing as an anomaly where Adam is concerned? If they’re trying to break two singles on the same formats simultaneously, it will certainly be a good test of Adam’s ability to thwart the standard laws of chart dynamics. This is about to get really interesting.

cilady
11/16/2009 at 9:43 am
rowenaaine
I’m not sure it matters how high a song charts as long as it is being played and sells.

Songs being played and selling ‘“> how high a song charts.

Well, that’s fair. What I meant was, there are some songs that keep getting played that never crack the top 40, aren’t there? (Don’t know, that’s why I’m asking.)

It’s Only got 20 spins on country radio the past week. Has it officially been sent to radio for adds? I’m not sure.

I know that it was sent out to radio Wednesday, but I don’t know if it was sent out for adds or not yet. Danny beings his radio tour this week, I hope that works out well for him.

Bieber released his songs as follows, with the current chart position after it:

One Time: 6/7-#14
One Less Lonely Girl: 10/6- #42
Love Me:10/26- #43
Favorite Girl: 11/3 ‘“ #32

What’s to say they are not going to do the same with Adam?

Interesting strategy. It’s obvious they’re trying to sell the artist not the individual song. I mean say 30% of stations play a lot of song A, 30% song B and 30% song C, 10% don’t play him at all really. But all give the other songs an occassional spin. Does it matter to local listeners that he isn’t on the Top40 chart when it’s in the top 10 on their radio station? He’s getting massive audience impressions this way.

It’ll be interesting to see if this is the same path that RCA intends to take with Adam or if WWFM is gratuitously being played by a few stations.

babybelle32- We have proof of nothing whatsoever which is why I stated it was JMO. It is just fun to throw the thought and speculations out there. I did think this was discussed at length though a couple of days ago that the sales for fye did not include what was sold through AO and Amazon before it was even released to iTunes. I really don’t care as, like I said there has really been no real promo for the single, or the album for that matter, and taking this into consideration I don’t think either is doing too bad.

“If that happens it will be a major chart anomaly. Cannibalization of one song or the other or both would be much, much more likely based on normal chart behavior. But I guess that’s the whole Black Swan theory, huh? There’s no such thing as an anomaly where Adam is concerned? If they’re trying to break two singles on the same formats simultaneously, it will certainly be a good test of Adam’s ability to thwart the standard laws of chart dynamics. This is about to get really interesting.”

well cook broke the show… looks like adam is gonna break the charts…

I wonder if people who remember Season 6 well can help me with this – while looking for Jordin’s download numbers, I found an old Idol Chatter post which I don’t remember seeing before (probably because that season had already ended and was half-way being forgotten) -

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2007/07/36571880/1

This gives all the numbers for the songs performed on Season 6. It appears to be download numbers during the season plus iTunes sales after the finale. Are those numbers only from the American Idol official websites or were all those songs ever released to iTunes? I remember Jordin’s coronation song plus EP and Blake’s EP was released onto iTunes which perhaps explains their higher number, but were the rest ever released onto iTunes (i.e. those not on the EP and those from other contestants)? I assume those on the EP may be downloaded separately if so wished, am I correct? Were they studio or live performances – did they do studio recordings like they did for all the contestants in Season 7 and 8? They are interesting numbers, I didn’t even know they released those numbers for Season 6.

Woohoo for Kelly!

Not sure we can compare the release of the Jay-Z songs.

I’m pretty sure you can’t. The situations are just so different.

I personally hope Adam does WWFM at the AMAs. The song rules from 2:50 min. mark to the end, and its catchy with a real hook compared to FYE. If he does this, he wins in my view and it will chart to the end of winter. Its a great winter song.

Or, since he was great on idol, doing covers and all, he should’ve opted to make a covers album like Michael Bolton – he charted all over billboard and made millions.

For someone who asked if they played FYE on Z-100, I listened to them the whole week and did not hear it once. I also filled out the online form and called the station once, the guy promised to play it, but nothing…

For those who fret that Adam can’t pull two singles on radio, I disagree, he is no ordinary AI alumni, the amount of press, tv, tabloid coverage he has, as well all those favorable reviews from music critics. He is very different in that regard from even from previous winners.

I think WWFM is more radio friendly, is better for a wide range of listeners and showcases Adams vocals better, so in my humble opinion it is a wise step, better song for daytime tv. And I pray that FYE video is as outthere and gorgeous as Gaga’s bad romance, that will push it in the right direction. It is a good, fun, clubby song, I love it, but maybe not that good for radio and if they start playing WWFM that will make me a happy fan.

On one hand it could be too soon to call FYE a flop, on the other hand that song is not really showing positive signs.
yeah, it’s doing nearly as well as LLWD was after 2 weeks (spin wise, not in audience numbers, and LLWD was also adding more spins a day at this point)… well, I think that’s one of the problems. It should be doing much better. Because FYE is more top 40 friendly, because there’s more hype and interest around Adam and mainly because FYE’s adds date has passed already, and LLWD’s adds date was yet to come at that time.
The first monday after FYE being released it got many new spins, people thought the song was exploding on radio, and then poof, those stations didn’t touch it again, which I don’t remember happening with LLWD.
With a week to go to the album release FYE is not in a good position. And yeah, it made HAC’s top 50, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what RCA is looking for with Adam.
The sales are also not helping. And now you hear DJs saying WWFM is better… I don’t know. If it wasn’t for the video and the fact that he’s singing it at the AMAs, I’d say WWFM is the new single and lets pretend FYE didn’t exist. But it’s difficult considering those two factors.

If WWFM takes off it will pull FYE in with it, and vice versa.

If that happens it will be a major chart anomaly. Cannibalization of one song or the other or both would be much, much more likely based on normal chart behavior. But I guess that’s the whole Black Swan theory, huh? There’s no such thing as an anomaly where Adam is concerned? If they’re trying to break two singles on the same formats simultaneously, it will certainly be a good test of Adam’s ability to thwart the standard laws of chart dynamics. This is about to get really interesting.

thanks ladymadonna for summing up rather cogently the kinda ”wtf” questions that began swirling in my head after reading the comment [s] that generated this response… my gut reaction is that the original plan hasn’t gone according to plan, and there is a lotta scrambling going on behind the scenes here from rca to save some face, relative to the strangeness and underperformance of the singles release strategy… just my gut reaction, so the next few days and weeks will tell the tale…

well cook broke the show’ ¦ looks like adam is gonna break the charts’ ¦

Wait, I thought Kris broke the show? And if Adam breaks the charts it will be fun to watch, even for someone who’s only academically interested in the post-season this year.

Adam is only 27, releasing an album of covers will be great when he’s more like 50 and ready to semi-retire by playing at Caesar’s Palace or similar establishment in Vegas.

Adam is out of the Idol box already if you ask me… Radio play will come, two weeks does not a fail make!

Hazehel – Those numbers were interesting but the comments were even more interesting. Seems the arguments and the predictions stay the same every season.

I can’t wait for all the analysis of the anemic sales for WWFM next week or the week after (because you know they will be low numbers) due to the “release” of this song. Why? Because despite this so-called “release,” the song is not being sold on iTunes. It is being sold as a single (so there should be numbers available, assuming RCA or whoever reports them), but it’s being sold only on AO.

And when did they put it out there (“release” it)? Friday? Saturday? So, we get numbers (maybe) for a 2 or 3 day period, and then an entire week of only AO numbers?

Here’s the question: Have any other idols ever had their singles released exclusively to their fansites only (for a period of 5 to 7 days) before their album drop?

ETA: I think they’re doing something different with Adam and a lot of folks are trying to fit his situation into the box of yesterday’s tried and true formulas.

Adam is doing FYE – FYE is still the current single.

It’s possible these stations are electing to play the song on their own. If so, and if it gets enough spins I expect RCA will set an add date and get behind it. Or maybe they intend to keep pushing FYE to HAC, but change the Top40 focus to WWFM.

Which would make me laugh because FYE is more obviously suited to Top40 and WWFM to HAC. But all the better for me because my only decent local radio is HAC and I much prefer FYE with its many-layered meanings to the safer, more literal (and more boring IMO) WWFM.

Someone up thread was asking how a song can have a bullet but be dropping in rank. One of the expert charters can correct me if I’m wrong, but the bullet means the spins are increasing. If spins for other songs near it in rank are increasing faster, though, the song can still drop down in rank. Likewise, a song can lose spins, but if songs near it are losing spins at a faster rate, it can ‘fall up the chart’, so to speak.

babybelle32
11/16/2009 at 9:42 am
Considering that one arguement that is used is that the numbers that came out last week don’t include those who purchased the entire album off of Adam’s site, how is this arguement legitimate, since purchasing an album and purchasing a single are two different things.

I think the reason this argument was put forth, babybelle32, is that by purchasing the album peeps got to download the single right away. So there was no need to buy the single nor did anyone have to wait for the album to be released. So that’s a lot of ‘singles’  that didn’t need to get bought, thus keeping the singles total down.

Q3 pointed out last week that the single was for sale the first three days it was released on AO ONLY.(Friday,Saturday,Sunday) You could also buy the deluxe album, but it was $24.99.
The sales numbers are counted from Monday to Monday. Therefore, we don’t have single sale’s numbers for the first three days FYE was out. (Fri.,Sat.,Sun.)
It doesn’t make a difference of where FYE is on the charts or how well it will end up doing! We would just like to have those numbers.

hello, logged in just to chime in on this very riveting discussion

sorry, im been lurking here since may. bit of history, dont watch AI, stupid show, although I admit some good singers found.

singers found, stars not really( kelly is the exception, songs are good)

anyways, before i get off topic, it has been agreed that a certain adam lambert is targeted for a world wide release?

yes?

okay, as someone outside of US, best way to catch people’s attention second only to hearing a song is visuals( we have a lot of tv media that play music videos)

first time i heard “already gone” by kelly was a video by our music channels

if i were RCA and i have an artist as pretty and dynamic as adam, wouldnt i market him to get the maximum exposure?

adam=visual artist+voice=fye ( waaay! more visually exciting!)=buzz=interest (gaga anyone?)

seriously, i dont listen to radio, i usually know when an artist has a new song when i see the music video.

and interesting enough, that bieber kid has his video playing here on our music channels on tv. and to know he is just starting to climb the charts there in the US.

seeing adam on video, is a whole lotta different ball game, if song by swift called “fifteen” can start climbing our music charts, and im pretty sure its not the song, since its bad… it must be something else, could be because she’s pretty.

so fye=the world
wdywfm=US?

either way, adam all the way baby!

For those who fret that Adam can’t pull two singles on radio, I disagree, he is no ordinary AI alumni, the amount of press, tv, tabloid coverage he has, as well all those favorable reviews from music critics. He is very different in that regard from even from previous winners.

It’s not about AI alumni, even established artists don’t do it.
And if Adam is so different and gets all that why is his song doing worse than Tattoo, Crush, Light On and even LLWD?
That’s a shock, isn’t it? But all those songs were getting more spins, more audience and better sales than FYE after 2 weeks of their release.
And if Jordin, David and Kris were winners, well, Archie was in the same position and still Crush was doing 10 times better.

I have a question. Why would anybody in their right mind think that RCA would not want to report ALL of the sales from anyone? I just don’t think that’s happening contrary to what some have posted here. It’s never happened before so just because your fav’s numbers aren’t astronomical, why would you conclude RCA or Soundscan numbers were at fault. Just asking. By the way AO is run by RCA so why wouldn’t the numbers be included?

jpfan
Allison is absolutely going nowhere. What is Jive waiting for?

anovich
I’m also really worried about Allison ‘“ where is her marketing? Her song has been out longer than FYE.

At least is encouraging that comments about Allison are (rightly) about what the heck is going on with Marketing, as opposed to the quality of her single. It may not be the most liked (by some; I love it!), but it should be getting more play than this.

so fye=the world
wdywfm=US?

Yes, this did pop into my mind as well. The strategy seems to be to market Adam internationally from the start. I don’t know about the extent of the push outside US but there clearly seems to be interest outside US and the marketing strategy for Adam has tended to pay more attention to international fans than for example Kris’s strategy.

Of course, most people here on mjs pay more attention to how Adam is doing in the US but the international angle is interesting too.

I have a question. Why would anybody in their right mind think that RCA would not want to report ALL of the sales from anyone? I just don’t think that’s happening contrary to what some have posted here. It’s never happened before so just because your fav’s numbers aren’t astronomical, why would you conclude RCA or Soundscan numbers were at fault. Just asking.

Uh, well, first, anyone who bought the album and got the download of FYE “for free” with it, won’t count as singles sales. They cannot report those numbers, it’s not a matter of WANTING to or not. It’s like buying an album and counting each of those songs as “singles sales”.

Adam has tended to pay more attention to international fans than for example Kris’s strategy.

It’s funny because LLWD seems to be doing more internationally than FYE at the moment. Of course it’ll change once promotion starts. But it’s weird that LLWD is charting pretty highly and is #1 in adds in places like New Zealand. Can you even buy his album there?

like ladymadonna, i really have no dog in the hunt this year, but find this past season, and post season, strangely weird and interesting to track… there just seems to be a lot of unusual risk taking coming from tptb, risk taking that will result in either phenomenal success, or a lotta egg on the faces of the people who signed off on it… life is a gamble, so in keeping with that, more power to them… in the current music climate, i wonder if this has been the smartest approach to take, so we won’t know till we know… and it makes one wonder if this is a one shot deal for promotion from tptb, or if this kinda approach becomes de rigeure for promotion for some idols going forward… like jim said, ”strange… days… have found us, strange days have tracked us down”

I have a question. Why would anybody in their right mind think that RCA would not want to report ALL of the sales from anyone? I just don’t think that’s happening contrary to what some have posted here.

No one believes that. RCA did report numbers that were added into the total for MONDAY to MONDAY Soundscan numbers. We just don’t have the numbers for Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

ksgirlfordc
11/16/2009 at 10:05 am
I have a question. Why would anybody in their right mind think that RCA would not want to report ALL of the sales from anyone? I just don’t think that’s happening contrary to what some have posted here. It’s never happened before so just because your fav’s numbers aren’t astronomical, why would you conclude RCA or Soundscan numbers were at fault.

I think Tiger92 answers this a few posts above, ksgirlfordc, re: the first three days of sales that were not reported.

Tiger92, I think everyone clearly got the message that many Glamby fans think he has 3 days of fye sales that have never been counted. We just aren’t buying the argument. If they were not counted in the first week sales, together with the full week, they should have shown up as prior week sales, which they did not. It would not make any sense to simply never report them.

As to Glamby not going the old, tired traditional route? Possibly they truly are trying to innovate. If so, what they are doing is extraordinarily risky. There is nothing in his numbers we know of to date to support such a risky move. But it is possible they are doing that. Or it could be a sign of desperation and/or a misstep. That also happens.

“Uh, well, first, anyone who bought the album and got the download of FYE ‘for free’  with it, won’t count as singles sales. They cannot report those numbers, it’s not a matter of WANTING to or not. It’s like buying an album and counting each of those songs as ‘singles sales’ .”

well the free single downloaded from the itunes preorder DOES count. thats why it got a bump on itunes when the preorder went up. when people ‘complete their album’ when its available, then the single sale gets take away and converted to an album sale.

20 preorders with ‘free single’ = 20 total single sales
15 people complete their album = (20-15) 5 total single sales, 15 album sales

Anyway, I think it is all Jive fault. Z100 are very close to Jive. They do everything to screw Lambert’s singles.

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 10:15 am
As to Glamby not going the old, tired traditional route? Possibly they truly are trying to innovate. If so, what they are doing is extraordinarily risky. There is nothing in his numbers we know of to date to support such a risky move. But it is possible they are doing that. Or it could be a sign of desperation and/or a misstep. That also happens.

Well, we know that neither scenario can be proven at this moment in time. But I have to ask, seriously:

Why would a company that jumped to sign this artist with intentions of making him an international star, be scrambling in “desperation” only two weeks after a single has been dropped that they did not yet promote?

Which would make me laugh because FYE is more obviously suited to Top40 and WWFM to HAC.

And a few weeks ago I would have agreed with you. But then I started listening to Top40 stations around the country (streaming) and it seems to me that HAC is more what Top40 was 10 years ago. Most of the Top40 stations have a heavy Rhythmic emphasis that would not be as open to an FYE sound from a new artist. This makes breaking into HAC easier for both Kris and Adam than breaking into Top40. And it makes Allison’s path, trying to do it all on Top40, a really hard one. Songs that I like seem to break on HAC first and then start to play on the Top40 station by me.

ETA: I think the Top40 station by me would be more open to WWFM than FYE.

well cook broke the show

No contestant “breaks” American Idol. The show is bigger than its contestants.

Having said that, we aren’t going to have that discussion in this thread. Stick to discussing the numbers, please.

k0ka
11/16/2009 at 10:18 am
Anyway, I think it is all Jive fault. Z100 are very close to Jive. They do everything to screw Lambert’s singles.

LOL, k0ka. Yeah, that must be it.

I think Tiger92 answers this a few posts above, ksgirlfordc, re: the first three days of sales that were not reported.

Do we KNOW this for a fact or is this just speculation to justify the numbers? Anyone here work for RCA?

I’m confused. Has WWFM been played somewhere other than on the OHP syndicated show?

FYE may be the “club dance” single. WYWFM (are those the right amount of letters?!) seems like a top 40 hit to me. I’ve pre-ordered the whole album, so it’s all good, but I’d like to see the Fierce One get some mainstream success, and that seems to mean “Singles Sales.” If he is an “album” artist in the long run, and makes more money from concerts, I won’t grieve. I’ll just be first in line to buy tickets. And count me in for the day he stars in a broadway show. Whatever he does, I’ll be a fan for life, but I do still hope the rest of the world will catch on. My bet is that they will sit up and take notice, esp. in the international market.

I was always afraid that peeps over-talked the “next Elvis” hyperbole. That may hurt him. I just want everyone to let him grow into success. Not even Elvis was huge overnight.

“I’m confused. Has WWFM been played somewhere other than on the OHP syndicated show?”

z100 played it on elvis durans show. and another station is teasing they will play it at some point

We’re not talking about Itunes, they’re talking about sales on Adamofficial. The iTunes presale didn’t start until the next sales week. It’s already been determined that the sales of the CE on Adamofficial that included a FREE download of FYE, the FYE downloads wouldn’t count because there was zero dollar attached to it. The sales of the single alone should have counted though. It was thoroughly hashed out last week if you do some digging.

dale
11/16/2009 at 10:04 am
hello, logged in just to chime in on this very riveting discussion
[snipped]
if i were RCA and i have an artist as pretty and dynamic as adam, wouldnt i market him to get the maximum exposure?

adam=visual artist+voice=fye ( waaay! more visually exciting!)=buzz=interest (gaga anyone?)

seriously, i dont listen to radio, i usually know when an artist has a new song when i see the music video.

seeing adam on video, is a whole lotta different ball game, if song by swift called ‘fifteen’  can start climbing our music charts, and im pretty sure its not the song, since its bad’ ¦ it must be something else, could be because she’s pretty.

so fye=the world
wdywfm=US?

either way, adam all the way baby!

Dale, nice post. As someone in the US, I have little idea what it is like for radio play or music success in any non-US setting. So thanks for sharing that. I hope the video is compelling enough to raise interest in Adam elsewhere in the world!

I don’t know if this has been mentioned in comments yet, but Kris’ single is on the “Rate The Music” survey for HAC this week! Of COURSE I put “familiar,” “like a lot” and “NOT tired of it” when it came up!

nvm, frogcooke beat me to it!

Mary102, what you are citing as unreported single sales is standard practice for every artist out there. No one counts a free single download that comes with an album purchase as a single. Therefore, this cannot be an ‘uncounted single’ for purposes of assessing how fye is doing compared to other singles. And no, Tiger92′s response does not answer the question.

Y’all are asserting there are single sales out there for fye that have not been counted anywhere at all, at any time, and that this shows why it does not appear to be selling relative to other singles. This is wrong both because it makes no sense to say 19 would not count sales on its own site, and because none of the competitors count free singles downloaded with an album as a single, either.

I will buy the argument that possibly people are buying the album rather than the single, and the effect of that will not be apparent until after the album releases and we see if that is true. We won’t know until then. But that happens with every artist’s release. If AL proves to be more an album seller than a single seller (which he might, that was his pattern post-AI), you may be vindicated in that sense. But it makes no sense to postulate uniquely uncounted singles.

ksgirlfordc: I have a question. Why would anybody in their right mind think that RCA would not want to report ALL of the sales from anyone?

Mary 102: Uh, well, first, anyone who bought the album and got the download of FYE ‘for free’  with it, won’t count as singles sales. They cannot report those numbers, it’s not a matter of WANTING to or not. It’s like buying an album and counting each of those songs as ‘singles sales’ .

Exactly, Mary. Not to mention the fact that there was a stub period of Friday to Sunday (10/30 to 11/1) when the single was only available on AO for which sales were never separately reported. We have the 18,000 number but that supposedly covers the period 11/2 to 11/8. What happened to those weekend numbers when interest was presumably at its highest peak for the hardcore fans who follow everything Adam? Did they roll those numbers into the following week? I really don’t think so. For the sake of the integrity of the reporting system, I seriously doubt that would be allowed. Otherwise, people would constantly try to manipulate the system.

Anyway, I think it is all Jive fault. Z100 are very close to Jive. They do everything to screw Lambert’s singles.

LOL That’s a good theory.
And we know Z100 hates to play Kelly Clarkson.

In another news, it seems like Jordin’s take on a more dance music is not getting much love. The bullet for that one is also terrible. Could this be the first Jordin single to not make it?

Of course, most people here on mjs pay more attention to how Adam is doing in the US but the international angle is interesting too.

I can’t think of a ton of US artists that are successfull internationally and not in their own country. At least not mainstream success.

Yes Adam probably will sell some albums and some singles to people from other countries who have discovered him from AI, but the bulk of his sales will still be US based at least in the first couple of months.

The international aspect is nothing new, the davids sold out a gigantic concert in the Phillipines last year, Kelly sold more of her last albums away from the US than inside the country (congrats to Kelly for her number one!), and many idol alumnis have done well particularly in Canada.

What I’ve read times and times again, is that Adam could be the first AI international superstar a la Rihanna, Britney, Pink, etc.
Those types usually do well at home too.

Thilled that Adam is at #46 on HAC, especially after only two weeks. That’s not bad, not bad at all. I hope he picks up on top 40.

Also WOO HOO for Kelly being #1 on HAC! I love Already Gone.

As to the question of whether Z-100 is playing FYE, according to the mediabase chart, the answer is no. Over the last 7 days it hasn’t gotten 1 spin on that station. The previous week it only got 1 spin on Z-100. If enough people were requesting it, I would think it would get at least an occasional spin, so maybe not enough people have requested it yet. It’s only gotten 1 spin the past 7 days on KIIS-FM as well, despite Ryan’s championing of Adam.

The Top 40 station that is playing FYE the most is WKSE in Buffalo, which has given it 30 spins over the past 7 days.

In contrast, Z-100 is the Top 40 station that has played LLWD the most over the past 7 days — 41 spins

All I know Mark is that Justin Bieber’s album comes out the same day as Adams and he already has 3 songs from it on the charts. I personally don’t think it makes adifference whether FYE should be building momentum right now, that WILL happen in less than a week, I have no doubt.

You pulled those numbers off the iTunes chart, right? We’re talking in terms of radio promotion. Those songs, to the best of my knowledge, aren’t radio promotes. If I remember correctly (and this could be off), he was one of the artists (like Carrie) who was part of the iTunes countdown program, where they would incrementally (’bout every week) toss songs up there, presumably to entice an already fully-formed fanbase into making impulse buys. It’s absolutely ideal for an artist like him (heavily invested tween market are perfect impulse buyers).

Adam maybe could have done that, in theory. The early numbers on iTunes seem to suggest not, but who knows. In any event, that’s absolutely not the distinction between WWFM and FYE. Both songs are being pushed to radio (read: completely different format than the iTunes buzz releases) at the same time. The usual chart activity that ensues from that is that one song effectively cannibalizes the other, or they cancel each other out.

Now, again, there’s been a lot of people pushing the “black swan” theory. I’m not sure I buy it; Adam does live in a world where gravity exists, the release of FYE already demonstrates that Adam doesn’t have the kind of fanbase one can just toss stuff at and have it do spectacularly well, and there’s nothing about him otherwise as an artist, that I see, that negates basic radio psychology. But I could be wrong. Invoking “he’s unique”, though, isn’t enough. (The “U.S./international” and other distinctions have more merit, and I’m mulling them over right now)

Oh, Z100 has gotten requests for it. But apparently on today’s show the DJs commented that they didn’t “like” FYE.

ETA: I didn’t hear the show myself. But this was during the discussion when they played WWFM according to those that heard it.

“In another news, it seems like Jordin’s take on a more dance music is not getting much love. The bullet for that one is also terrible. Could this be the first Jordin single to not make it?”

she was due for one… lol

If AL proves to be more an album seller than a single seller (which he might, that was his pattern post-AI), you may be vindicated in that sense

When was this proven? He sold more singles than albums post-AI.

Mary102, what you are citing as unreported single sales is standard practice for every artist out there. No one counts a free single download that comes with an album purchase as a single. Therefore, this cannot be an ‘uncounted single’ for purposes of assessing how fye is doing compared to other singles. And no, Tiger92′s response does not answer the question.

FYE was SOLD AS A SINGLE on AO on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Those numbers from the PURCHASED SINGLE have NOT been reported.

Once again, you could purchase the single or you could purchase the album(and get the free single). We ARE NOT talking about the free singles that came with the album purchases.

Leome,

What I am trying to say, there is a LOT more interest in Adam outside of AI, name another contestant that had opportunities like 2012, AMAs, Queen interest etc. I will admit I never followed anyone Adam, and even though I watched AI for a few years and cheered and voted for Jordin, and Cook, but forgot about them until I heard them on the radio, never buying cds of going to concerts, so I am no expert. Adam is the only one I cared enough to follow after the show was over, he absolutely won me and my gut instincts tell me that he will be bigger that anything out AI, and if that doesn’t happen I promise to eat my Amazon copy of his cd (will continue listening to the I-tunes one, lol)

cilady
11/16/2009 at 10:30 am
When was this proven? He sold more singles than albums post-AI.

Hmm, wish I could point you to it, but I know this was discussed on MJs (and elsewhere) many times: re Adam’s Idol “album” staying high on the iTunes charts long after the show was over up until it was pulled post-tour.

Also I’m not sure why some people claim that FYE is more Top 40 friendly than LLWD. I would disagree with that. I hear just as much stuff along the lines of LLWD on Top 40 radio as I do songs that are closer to FYE’s vibe. Top 40 radio is all over the place in terms of types of songs it plays — no real stylistic cohesiveness to it at all.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again…I am convinced that WWFM was intended to be the first single (per the rumors etc.)but that once they got the AMA gig they needed something to make more of a statement visually …so they went with FYE. WWFM is definitely a “safer” song that will appeal to more people (but FYE is definitely bolder)…They are not abandoning FYE, will continue to push it, make video etc., but WWFM will be out there for the radio stations/fans/new listeners that could not get into FYE…he’ll probably sing FYE, WWFM and TfM on GMA this week….

Rowenaine, they clearly had every confidence in him when they signed him. However, there are now several mediocre results attached to his name. His sales immediately after AI were pretty good but not stellar; TfM, despite being attached to a top-selling movie, has not gone much of anywhere; fye is catching on on radio admittedly (though why they are cutting it off at the knees so early is puzzling) but not on iTunes. The big unknown, for another week or two, is his album sales. Ranks, particularly on digital sales, don’t tell as much as you might like, especially spread over many weeks. Plus, I think it is crazy to say there has been no promotion. They have had his face on several magazines, he got banners on iTunes, he’s gotten Amazon promo. The only thing he lacks is radio interviews and Jingle Balls, which most of his fans have disdained anyway. He’s gotten high-level, broad brush promo and expensive videos instead; kind of national rather than local promo. His song on 2012 is daily promo in and of itself. Not to mention red carpet appearances, etc. He’s had TONS of promo, IMO. They chose to use those promos in a different way from the promo for many other artists, that is all. The no promo thing is a myth, IMO. I also sense from DJ comments people have cited that he’s being relentlessly pushed to the radio stations, just not through interviews or Jingle Balls.

I stand corrected on the singles counting with the album sales. But the iTunes pass counts them with the album, I believe.

Also I’m not sure why some people claim that FYE is more Top 40 friendly than LLWD. I would disagree with that. I hear just as much stuff along the lines of LLWD on Top 40 radio as I do songs that are closer to FYE’s vibe. Top 40 radio is all over the place in terms of types of songs it plays ‘” no real stylistic cohesiveness to it at all.

Top 40, I thought, favors dance pop, rhythmic, and hip hop, to a degree, especially for new artists. The rest is largely cross-over stuff, no?

ETA: I think they’re doing something different with Adam and a lot of folks are trying to fit his situation into the box of yesterday’s tried and true formulas.

I think that is obvious.

All the speculation and numbers quoting in the world doesn’t change the fact that there is more that we don’t know than what we do.

Oh, Z100 has gotten requests for it. But apparently on today’s show the DJs commented that they didn’t ‘like’  FYE.

The DJs do not determine the play lists by themselves though – that’s what program directors are for. There have been quotes that Jive put out regarding Kris from Z100′s program director (maybe I have this title wrong). If there were comments like them about Adam, RCA for some reason has chosen not to put them out there.

And the funniest thing is that Elvis Duran loved adam during the show way more than he liked Kris, so him not liking FYE strikes me as interesting.

They are not abandoning FYE, will continue to push it, make video etc., but WWFM will be out there for the radio stations/fans/new listeners that could not get into FYE’ ¦.

What, then, of radio, given the psychology that’s been discussed before where one song cannibalizes the other? Do they just favor WWFM, and is that what we’re seeing here?

What I am trying to say, there is a LOT more interest in Adam outside of AI, name another contestant that had opportunities like 2012, AMAs, Queen interest etc.

I think we had several discussions about how “unique” Adam’s rollout has been.
My argument is that altough Adam has had a great promo and prime collaborations that suggest full support from his label, other AI alumnis have had similar hype around them.

Cook had TML played in the Olympic games, he broke the billboard charts right after idol and was the first AI alumni to get SNL before his first album was even released.
Daughtry got tons of Real world interest, Fuel offered him their lead singer spot and he got his song played during the ads for Prison Break.

Based on his snipets, I love Adam’s album, but unfortunately that has not much to do with RW success.

I am sure AO and RCA reported the single sales for FYE over the 3 days to Soundscan. But (a) they wouldn’t have been included in his first week numbers because those days were outside the time frame to be included and (b) it’s entirely possible that a very high percentage of people who got FYE off the AO site did so through purchasing the deluxe album and getting FYE for free, rather than simply buying FYE as a single. If that’s the case, the singles sales numbers for FYE for those days may be extremely low.

I stand corrected on the singles counting with the album sales. But the iTunes pass counts them with the album, I believe.

Where is the Adam Lambert iTunes pass? I think you’re confused with Kris Allen.

Adam Lambert:
‘For Your Entertainment’ : ^46 HAC (55)

Kris Allen: ON OCT. 12th
‘Live Like We Are Dying’ : ^45 HAC (53)

FYE isn’t any more doomed than LLWD was doomed. Yes, it takes TIME. But, this is what Kirsten had to say on Oct. 12th:
* “Kris Allen’s Live Like We’re Dying continues to gain ground in both the Hot AC (#45) and Top 40 (#67) formats.”
* What does a ‘bullet’  mean?
*Means that it is increasing in spins which is a positive. Even if a song goes down in the ranking (because it was passed by a song that is gaining faster), having a positive spincrease shows forward momentum.”

I’m thinking if those numbers were good then, they are good now!

edit: discussion in other threads…not the topic

I can’t think of a ton of US artists that are successfull internationally and not in their own country.

I’m not trying to deny that. Adam needs to be successful in the US as well. But I was just wondering if the international market would influence Adam’s marketing strategy and single choices already at this point. Not saying it is so but just mulling over the possibility.

Top 40, I thought, favors dance pop, rhythmic, and hip hop, to a degree, especially for new artists. The rest is largely cross-over stuff, no?

Precisely. I don’t think it’s misreading the songs to say that FYE is far closer to the “dance pop” and “rhythmic” sphere than LLWD or WWFM. You get the occasional pop-rock crossover (or, if you have the radio history, a la Pink or AAR, a pop-rock self-starter), but that isn’t the majority of what charts or builds strong bullets.

I certainly hope that RCA is directing their energy at building the album seller meme, because I am still dumbfounded by Lambert’s insistence that he should be selling albums without wanting them to be cohesive. I keep reading his own statements as “I’m putting stuff out there for everyone; you’ll probably end up cherry-picking.”

Kelly Clarkson:
‘Already Gone’ : ^1 HAC (3), ^8 Pop (7), ^14 AC (18)

Go Kelly! Seriously. Amidst all this AI8 chatter, Kelly just keeps doing her thing.

I am so thoroughly amused by AI8 since the season ended. Thought AI8 was really boring, but damn, this fall has been anything but. Heh. Just heh.

Tiger92, you can shout all you want that those 3 days of sales were never counted (we heard you), but what is your source for knowing this? It would certainly be unprecedented. The precedent is for numbers like that to be counted as a short week, prior to the week you are citing. I have even heard of a couple of instances where someone apparently wanted to cover an artist’s embarrassing numbers and rolled them into the next week. The point is, many of us consider it silly and unprecedented to think they were never reported anywhere at any time. You disagree. Neither of us can prove our point beyond doubt, but at least precedent is on the side of assuming they were counted. There is nothing to support your point.

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 10:38 am
Rowenaine, they clearly had every confidence in him when they signed him. However, there are now several mediocre results attached to his name. His sales immediately after AI were pretty good but not stellar; TfM, despite being attached to a top-selling movie, has not gone much of anywhere; fye is not catching on on radio or iTunes.

This is where we differ in opinion. TfM did not go for radio adds. It hasn’t been played on the radio. The movie itself just opened three days ago, and the song is in the closing credits, which oddly enough, most people don’t stay through after 2 1/2 hours of being cramped into a theater seat. I don’t see how sales of that song can be considered mediocre results when it sold 40K without being played anywhere the week it was first available. This song was not his single, and it was an opportunity for him to attach his vocals to a film – nothing more, nothing less. I place no importance whatsoever on the potential of this song. It’s win/win in my opinion, especially if the tune gets considered (which no one knows if it will or not) for any film-related award.

The big unknown, for another week or two, is his album sales. Ranks, particularly on digital sales, don’t tell as much as you might like, especially spread over many weeks. Plus, I think it is crazy to say there has been no promotion. They have had his face on several magazines, he got banners on iTunes, he’s gotten Amazon promo. The only thing he lacks is radio interviews and Jingle Balls, which most of his fans have disdained anyway. He’s gotten high-level, broad brush promo and expensive videos instead; kind of national rather than local promo. His song on 2012 is daily promo in and of itself. Not to mention red carpet appearances, etc. He’s had TONS of promo, IMO. They chose to use those promos in a different way from the promo for many other artists, that is all. The no promo thing is a myth, IMO. I also sense from DJ comments people have cited that he’s being relentlessly pushed to the radio stations, just not through interviews or Jingle Balls.

I didn’t say there was no promotion – but the promotion has been of “Adam” the brand, not “FYE” the single. I believe that the promo has all been orchestrated, and no one can convince me that RCA/19 are scrambling. We haven’t been able to guess the next step: all of us are surprised at every turn. All I can say is, I’m waiting to see what happens and am extremely excited for the possibilities.

tiger92- LLWD also didn’t immediately go for adds like FYE did. I think RCA expected radio to catch on faster than they did. I think AMAs + Album Sales will be what gets FYE going.

The DJs do not determine the play lists by themselves though ‘“ that’s what program directors are for. There have been quotes that Jive put out regarding Kris from Z100′s program director (maybe I have this title wrong).

A couple of PD/MDs have come out of the woodwork for Kris in some of the recent articles about him. And they’ve been saying very positive things about him and the music he’s coming out with. I see it as all the radio interviews/concerts paying off. Especially LITV. Never hurts to get on the good side of the people who decide what songs get a chance.

Everything was ‘have patience’  when it came to LLWD. There was exactly 36 comments in 24 hours in that thread. I read back through all of them and there wasn’t any comments saying LLWD was a failure or Jive is going to drop Kris. In fact, fans from other idols generally had nothing to say.

While I agree with this sentiment, the onyl reason I have trouble applying it to FYE is because WWFM is now out there. If WWFM was not out there like it now is I’d probably approach FYE in much the same way I did LLWD. But Jive did not out another song out there on the radio the way RCA has seemed to put WWFM.

Adam Lambert:
‘For Your Entertainment’ : ^46 HAC (55)

Kris Allen: ON OCT. 12th
‘Live Like We Are Dying’ : ^45 HAC (53)

FYE isn’t any more doomed than LLWD was doomed. Yes, it takes TIME. But, this is what Kirsten had to say on Oct. 12th:

And the thing is, there still has been next to no radio PR (other than Ryan back on day one) for FYE, unlike all the stuff Kris was doing with radio for LLWD. And imo, the radio PR would help FYE more, because radio doesn’t need to play anything by these guys, but at least getting out there and shmoozing with them would build more rapport to help out radio spins and adds.

anovich
11/16/2009 at 10:50 am
While I agree with this sentiment, the onyl reason I have trouble applying it to FYE is because WWFM is now out there. If WWFM was not out there like it now is I’d probably approach FYE in much the same way I did LLWD. But Jive did not out another song out there on the radio the way RCA has seemed to put WWFM.

No proof that RCA put WWFM anywhere. OHP played it on a lark and a couple of radio stations picked it up. Has it gone for adds?

Tiger92, I haven’t heard anyone say Glamby is a failure or his management will drop him, nor that his song is doing worse than LLWD. I’m just saying those 3 days of sales were counted somewhere, even if not in the Monday to Monday sales. If they were spectacular and material, we would have heard about it.

And Media bias, I never said Glamby had an iTunes pass. I was making a general observation about the pre-orders versus iTunes pass method of counting or not counting singles.

Everything was ‘have patience’  when it came to LLWD. There was exactly 36 comments in 24 hours in that thread. I read back through all of them and there wasn’t any comments saying LLWD was a failure or Jive is going to drop Kris. In fact, fans from other idols generally had nothing to say.

While I agree with this sentiment, the onyl reason I have trouble applying it to FYE is because WWFM is now out there. If WWFM was not out there like it now is I’d probably approach FYE in much the same way I did LLWD. But Jive did not out another song out there on the radio the way RCA has seemed to put WWFM.

Right. That’s the weird thing here. For me, it’s not so much that I’m thinking “oh, FYE is in trouble!”, as much as, “What’s going on here? If RCA is floating another single, why?” It’s strange, and worth thinking about, but I actually see very little death bell action for FYE on this thread, just a bunch of rather legitimate questions.

Tiger92, you can shout all you want that those 3 days of sales were never counted (we heard you), but what is your source for knowing this? It would certainly be unprecedented. The precedent is for numbers like that to be counted as a short week, prior to the week you are citing.

(we heard you also)
Okay-I’ll go with this. Find me the numbers for the previous week. They haven’t been reported to the public! Find me this number!

Girlygirl: I agree-the numbers for single sales for the first three days may be small. They may be average. They may be impressive. At this point, we don’t know.

And why do I care about any song (like FYE) after just a couple of weeks floating around? And Kelly Already Gone’s position is a big deal why?

Wiki says:

In North America, “Already Gone” entered the Billboard Hot 100 and Canadian Hot 100 charts at number 70 on 28 March 2009,[46] due to digital download sales of the album track, which was released two weeks earlier.[47]

It dropped out of both charts the following week, but it re-entered the Hot 100 chart in August 2009 at number 89.

As of the chart dated November 21, 2009[update], it has peaked at number 17.[46] It also re-entered the Canadian Hot 100 in August, and has peaked at number 15 as of the chart dated November 21, 2009[update].[46]

So, OK. Kelly Clarkson, who’s sold millions of records and has a big overall following has finally driven her single SINCE MARCH to a good position.

And Adam Lambert, a new artist with only niche-y following, is a flop and a predictive failure because his single, floating around for 2 weeks hasn’t reached monumental heights.

OK, that makes perfect sense. I’m going to suspend my disbelief and follow my own personal narrative, too.

And I can TOTALLY see why Adam’s public appearances promoting A MOVIE and ANNOUNCING THE ALBUM IS FOR SALE NOVEMBER 23rd….would be some persons’ idea of PROMO for FYE. Yep.

Top 40, I thought, favors dance pop, rhythmic, and hip hop, to a degree, especially for new artists. The rest is largely cross-over stuff, no?

No. Most Top40 stations seem to favor rhythmic and hip-hop much more heavily over dance pop. New dance type pop seems to take a bit to catch on. Dance pop itself seems to be becoming a crossover into the Top40 format.

Adam Lambert:
‘For Your Entertainment’ : ^46 HAC (55)

Kris Allen: ON OCT. 12th
‘Live Like We Are Dying’ : ^45 HAC (53)

FYE isn’t any more doomed than LLWD was doomed. Yes, it takes TIME. But, this is what Kirsten had to say on Oct. 12th:
* ‘Kris Allen’s Live Like We’re Dying continues to gain ground in both the Hot AC (#45) and Top 40 (#67) formats.’ 
* What does a ‘bullet’  mean?
*Means that it is increasing in spins which is a positive. Even if a song goes down in the ranking (because it was passed by a song that is gaining faster), having a positive spincrease shows forward momentum.’ 

I’m thinking if those numbers were good then, they are good now!

Everything was ‘have patience’  when it came to LLWD.

EXACTLY! If in 2 or 3 weeks after Adam has done AMA, Letterman, GMA, Ellen, other appearances, and his FYE video is out, FYE has not moved and has not gained spins, then we can say it is dead…but in view of the performance of LLWD, I don’t think we are even in the hospital yet….I will say, that while I like FYE, I like WWFM more…and I do not think that I am alone….we will see what happens…i don’t understand the handwringing that OMG, radio is playing WWFM….isn’t it a GOOD thing if radio is playing a song?

Actually TfM did get some radio play, however limited. It was not insubstantial, either. However, I concede that there was not focused radio-specific promo. I think AL will have difficulty pulling off a Jingle Ball or even an in-studio appearance. He needs the bigger stage, his dancers, his big production, for what he is trying to sell. I’m not saying he can’t do acoustic, as he clearly has the voice. But he is selling the big production, something that needs an AMA-like stage. I am betting that his management is shooting the whole wad on big appearances like that, but had to make choices. Maybe the dollars are not there to support multiple videos, AMA, and the like along with more traditional radio promo. His tour will be very expensive from the sound of things.

I would still think the national promo should be having an effect on single sales.

EXACTLY! If in 2 or 3 weeks after Adam has done AMA, Letterman, GMA, Ellen, other appearances, and his FYE video is out, FYE has not moved and has not gained spins, then we can say it is dead’ ¦but in view of the performance of LLWD, I don’t think we are even in the hospital yet’ ¦.I will say, that while I like FYE, I like WWFM more’ ¦and I do not think that I am alone’ ¦.we will see what happens’ ¦i don’t understand the handwringing that OMG, radio is playing WWFM’ ¦.isn’t it a GOOD thing if radio is playing a song?

Here’s the thing, LLWD has moved up the charts before his GMA, Ellen, MV and even Conan (which admittedly gave him a big boost). Yet with FYE we are told to wait until after all of these things. And in t he interim we now have WWFM in the mix and TfM is out there as well.

Sorry, but these 2 situations are completely different from each other, YMMV.

“No proof that RCA put WWFM anywhere. OHP played it on a lark and a couple of radio stations picked it up. Has it gone for adds?”

I dont believe OHP played it on a whim, especially with z100 playing it this morning and other stations teasing they will play it. but we’ll see..

Current LIVE Mediabase Top 40 Chart (CURRENTS only)

Jason Derulo Whatcha Say
Lady GaGa Paparazzi
Jay Sean Down
Miley Cyrus Party in the USA
Beyonce Sweet Dreams
Britney Spears 3
Kelly Clarkson Already Gone
Owl City Fireflies
Iyaz Replay
BEP Meet Me Halfway
Taylor Swift You Belong with Me
David Guetta Sexy Chick
KOL Use Somebody
Justin Bieber One Time
Kesha Tik Tok
Lady GaGa Bad Romance
BEP I Gotta Feeling
Jay-Z/Rihanna/Kanye Run This Town
Cascada Evacuate the Dance Floor
Colbie Caillat Fallin’ for You

Rihanna Russian Roulette
Jay-Z Empire State of Mind
Boys Like Girls Love Drunk
Jesse McCartney Body Language
Pink Funhouse
Shinedown If You Only Knew
Mariah Carey Obsessed
Pitbull Hotel Room Service
Boys Like Girls Two Is Better Than One
Taylor Swift Fifteen
Shakira Give It Up to Me
Jordin Sparks S.O.S.
Jay Sean Do You Remember
We the Kings Heaven Can Wait
Leona Lewis Happy
Nickelback Never Gonna Be Alone
Michael Franti & Spearhead Say Hey
KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying
Hey Monday How You Love Me Now
Priscilla Renea Dollhouse

So, OK. Kelly Clarkson, who’s sold millions of records and has a big overall following has finally driven her single SINCE MARCH to a good position.

No, Already Gone charted as an album track back in March when the album was released – it sold enough as a single track in that week to crack the Hot 100 on sales alone. This is not unusual at all with highly-anticipated albums. Carrie charted 2 or 3 album tracks just last week from ‘Play On.’ AG was not released to radio as a single until 8/11/09.

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 10:47 am
Tiger92, you can shout all you want that those 3 days of sales were never counted (we heard you), but what is your source for knowing this? It would certainly be unprecedented. The precedent is for numbers like that to be counted as a short week, prior to the week you are citing. I have even heard of a couple of instances where someone apparently wanted to cover an artist’s embarrassing numbers and rolled them into the next week.

I’m just saying those 3 days of sales were counted somewhere, even if not in the Monday to Monday sales. If they were spectacular and material, we would have heard about it.

So where are they? If those numbers were counted and reported, what are the numbers? You seem to be suggesting they were reported to Soundscan and Soundscan is declining to publish them. I fail to understand the rationale for that.

Also, I would need to know specifics about numbers being rolled into a following week before I would give any credence to that scenario. Sounds like urban legend to me. As I stated above, allowing people to decide what week to report the numbers in would pretty much kill the integrity of the system.

ETA: Ahhh. I see tiger beat me to this question!

Media bias, Already Gone was simply an album track in March. As all of AL’s songs will be a week from tomorrow. It only became a single a few weeks ago. It was not seeking adds until recently. It has been out several weeks, though, but not since March. Someone else who has followed it will have to speak to when it actually went for adds.

Again, I have not declared Adam a failure at all. I think there’s a good chance he’ll break out at the AMAs, or that WWFM will break him out. His management certainly is trying. We don’t know yet. I’m just trying to introduce some logic into some discussion of the singles sales.

Rowenaine, I did edit my earlier post concerning the rise of fye. It actually is doing pretty well on radio, more so than in sales. That’s why the WWFM thing is puzzling.

I think it would be a mistake for Adam to try to introduce a second single into radio now. They should continue to push FYE for as long as its gaining spins. The AMA appearance will help and, with TFM out there, the last thing Adam needs is further dilution of the message.

I do think RCA expected a much bigger Idol fan bounce to push the single into high sales visibility. Whether its the economy or something else, it didn’t happen. That doesn’t mean it won’t go on to be a big success. It may well. It just started out more slowly then a lot of people were expecting.

Best evidence that RCA was not entirely optimistic about FYE based on the opening numbers? They immediately dropped the price of the single down to 99 cents on iTunes. To the extent that a cheaper single works to help sell the whole album, it’s a good move. And, most new artists introduce singles for the 99 cent price. But, as of yet, RCA doesn’t believe the Adam brand can support a premium price. The dollars aren’t matching the hype yet.

If Z100, the biggest radio station in the country, said they don’t like FYE – wouldn’t that indicate that the song may not be getting the greatest response behind the scenes? Isn’t it possible that’s why RCA is putting another song out there for potential airplay? You can be “be patient” as much as you want but if important, major market stations dont like a song, that could be a problem.

edit: discuss the topic, NOT the thread

IndyMuse, I DO agree with your thought that “the national promo should be having an effect on single sales.” I don’t know what is going on with FYE in terms of not being downloaded. Is it that people bought the album already and can wait? Have not enough people heard it spin on their station to know what it sounds like? Or do people honestly just not like it and refuse to touch it?

But as media bias (above) noted, Kelly’s “Already Gone” was available in March (though not as a single) and is NOW #1, nearly eight months later. Not saying FYE will get anywhere near that, but like LLWD, can’t declare it dead after two weeks or seven weeks.

Just…interesting stuff. And makes me even more itchy (as if I could be more impatient) for Sunday night!!

Here’s the thing, LLWD has moved up the charts before his GMA, Ellen, MV and even Conan (which admittedly gave him a big boost). Yet with FYE we are told to wait until after all of these things. And in t he interim we now have WWFM in the mix and TfM is out there as well.

Sorry, but these 2 situations are completely different from each other, YMMV.

So, at this point all we can do is compare numbers at two-weeks post release date and they are basically the same. LLWD jumped into the top 40 a week ago. It has been out 5 weeks longer than FYE. Patience and time was needed with LLWD and it is now needed with FYE.

Here’s the thing, LLWD has moved up the charts before his GMA, Ellen, MV and even Conan (which admittedly gave him a big boost). Yet with FYE we are told to wait until after all of these things. And in t he interim we now have WWFM in the mix and TfM is out there as well.

I didn’t mean to imply that we had to wait for these things for FYE but that LLWD rose without them….my point was that LLWD was floating around in the 100-140 range on itunes and in the 50-70s range on billboard/mediabase/whatever for weeks before it made a truly huge jump about a week ago (yay Kris!)….my point was simply that 2 weeks out of the gate FYE has pretty much the same chart positions as LLWD had…if in a few weeks it does not rise, then we will have more to talk about…it just so happens that Adam has a lot of promotion over the next several weeks, which should help.

gabilan: “Which would make me laugh because FYE is more obviously suited to Top40 and WWFM to HAC.”

jms: And a few weeks ago I would have agreed with you. But then I started listening to Top40 stations around the country (streaming) and it seems to me that HAC is more what Top40 was 10 years ago. Most of the Top40 stations have a heavy Rhythmic emphasis that would not be as open to an FYE sound from a new artist. This makes breaking into HAC easier for both Kris and Adam than breaking into Top40. And it makes Allison’s path, trying to do it all on Top40, a really hard one. Songs that I like seem to break on HAC first and then start to play on the Top40 station by me.

ETA: I think the Top40 station by me would be more open to WWFM than FYE.

Thanks jms, very interesting observations. I’m just out of range of any Top40 stations and it’s just as well because I suspect my favorites would crossover from HAC too. But why do you think WWFM would be played by your Top40 station before FYE? Like Mark, I guess I thought that dance-pop was a good Top40 fit. They play Britney don’t they? Or maybe it’s the “OMG a male singer trying to sing a dancey song? Can’t have that!”mentality? I just don’t relate to that because I have a fairly strong preference for male voices in general, including pop.

I also think the Top40 station comparison that girlygirl posted is worth discussing. (WKSE top station for FYE, Z100 for LLWD)

I watched FYE spins very closely on yes.com for 5-6 days and it’s clear that larger-market Top40 stations have been slow to play FYE. Is this a normal situation? I don’t think it’s really a case of DJs not liking it as I’ve heard many DJs saying they do like it (Elvis guy on Z100 and a very negative DJ in Little Rock excepted).

As far as radio play, FYE’s only problem that I see is audience impression. I think that’s worth some exploration. Do we think smaller markets have better (or worse, YMMV) taste than larger markets, LOL!

So, at this point all we can do is compare numbers at two-weeks post release date and they are basically the same. LLWD jumped into the top 40 a week ago. It has been out 5 weeks longer than FYE. Patience and time was needed with LLWD and it is now needed with FYE.

I have no problem with this – my problem is saying that Adam/FYE just needs the national exposure, etc. Kris/LLWd managed to chart without it so it seems funny to me to claim Adam needs something that he shuoldn’t.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe (Guns ‘N Roses) Chinese Democracy’s numbers were being counted at 1-1/2 weeks worth versus everyone else’s one week worth. Of course, that was actually an album. I saw posts here recently that one artist releasing in the next week or two was planning to do the same thing, to release on an odd date and count 1-1/2 weeks like one. I don’t recall who it was. Again, there was outrage over what this meant for integrity in the numbers, and rightly so. And Soundscan was going along with it. I thought there was even a thought that others might follow suit. MJ, anyone? Who was cited?

I realize my examples are for albums, but it does show the idea is not unprecedented. I also feel if the numbers were not materially large, they might not have formally reported them, though I am sure any rolling total would count them. But what would be gained by never reporting material sales?

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 11:00 am

Actually TfM did get some radio play, however limited. It was not insubstantial, either. However, I concede that there was not focused radio-specific promo

I stipulate as to not being in this business, however mediabase shows ONE add to WLDB-FM on 11/13/09 with 0 spins when searching history.

Then again, I’m sure there’s yet MORE insider info that we just “don’t get” or you can further redefine the phrase “not insubstantial radio play”.

Best evidence that RCA was not entirely optimistic about FYE based on the opening numbers? They immediately dropped the price of the single down to 99 cents on iTunes

Q3 explained this at length last week. Amazon listed the single at 99 cents, so iTunes followed suit to be competitive. I didn’t know that this was how it usually works either. There was a long marketing explanation for this and examples of other songs that have been dropped to 99 cents. (after the Amazon price set)

Wow I didn’t know DJ’s held so much power. Isn’t their job to cater to the masses and not their musical preferences?

A DJ can still have their music preference even if it doesn’t agree with the masses.

Well, strictly it’s not the djs. It’s the program directors.

The djs have pretty much zero power at most stations these days. The decisions about what to play are made at another level — a more business-focused level.

A male trying to make dance music work on radio has a mountain to climb.

True, but thats the fun of it. To me at least. In some ways, Adam is trying something new because he’s a man trying to break in a female dominated genre. Hopefully he can talk to Justin Timberlake to see how he did it.

I wonder whether they’re just kind of waiting to push FYE — and putting WWFM out there too — partly because they know this. I mean, RCA should not be in doubt about the conservatism of radio (by which I mean *business* conservatism, not cultural) that sees them being ever more reluctant to play any style/kind/variety of music or any performer who isn’t already doing well on their station. …

One *possible* way to get around that might be to get the person/song in question so much public exposure that the program directors become more comfortable with seeing that person singing that kind of song every where and begins to believe that the public will be happy with hearing it on their radio station. … Plus, of course, if they can drive any sales or radio requests from a lot of appearances, and such, then that can help push the stations to play the thing as well.

RCA has to know that a guy singing dance-y, sexy pop — rather than rap or rock — and a gay guy to boot is going to be a stretch for radio’s fear of losing a nickel by playing something new. So I’m sure this is factored into their marketing plan — whether or not that plan works in the end. Will be very interesting to see.

Admittedly I am going from memory on the fye radio play, but I’m pretty sure I’m not imagining things. I thought he got up to a few hundred plays and it was mentioned on this board. I am not sure I have the time or inclination to look it up, or to look up proof that Glambert did better on album sales than Kris and Kris did better on singles than Glambert. That’s all from memory. Which can be faulty. Anyone want to look up proof that my memory is wrong on these? I am, of course, not counting in-season sales, of which we got only a one day snapshot and about which we can reach no real conclusion.

So, OK. Kelly Clarkson, who’s sold millions of records and has a big overall following has finally driven her single SINCE MARCH to a good position.

This is Kelly’s third single off her March album drop. My Life Would Suck Without You, I Do Not Hook Up, and now Already Gone.

My Life Would Suck Without You actually broke the BB chart for biggest jump to #1 in the chart’s 50 year history. It jumped from 97 to 1. And sold 280,000 downloads in it’s first week. FYE isn’t anywhere close to that. LOL. And certainly not a chart history maker. Heh.

Q3 explained this AT LENGTH last week. Amazon listed the single at 99 cents, so iTunes followed suitto be competitive.

That is the official explanation. However, Amazon regularly prices things under iTunes (there is some great bargain shopping to be had there BTW) that are being sold successfully on iTunes for full price.

At the end of the day its not in and of itself a big deal. It’s all about real world performance and fans now. Either FYE will take off after AMA or not. I wish Adam the best.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe (Guns ‘N Roses) Chinese Democracy’s numbers were being counted at 1-1/2 weeks worth versus everyone else’s one week worth.

Yes, this is correct. GNR released on a Saturday last year and sales for the extended sales week were all reported together with their debut numbers. I believe they are doing the same thing with 50 Cent this year – releasing digitally a week early but counting all sales in with his physical debut week. There is precedent for this, though it tends to make the chart-watchers very cranky.

Honestly it doesn’t make any sense to me that Sony would withhold those sales, but I also don’t see Sounscan making an exception for Adam the way they did for established acts like GNR and 50 Cent. I’m not sure we will ever know for sure, but I also think it doesn’t matter much in the long run. FYE has a ways to go before they’re going to need to do a sales audit for RIAA certification purposes.

posters who insist on commenting on the commenters end up in moderation

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 10:38 am
Rowenaine, they clearly had every confidence in him when they signed him. However, there are now several mediocre results attached to his name. His sales immediately after AI were pretty good but not stellar; TfM, despite being attached to a top-selling movie, has not gone much of anywhere; fye is not catching on on radio or iTunes.

Are you asserting that you define mediocre results by examination of a single after two weeks from an album that won’t be released until November 23rd and has been advertised as such, and a movie that just started showing in theaters this past weekend?

Just so I understand.

I have no problem with this ‘“ my problem is saying that Adam/FYE just needs the national exposure, etc. Kris/LLWd managed to chart without it

Not at two weeks though. Give FYE four more weeks to chart.
LLWD is just barely in the top 40. It’s a good sign, but it does prove that it takes time. I think AI fans have unrealsitic expectations as a whole.

Backing away from specific numbers, because we’re arguing some pretty fine points here, I think the AL fans’ best hope is in album sales for the moment. I do believe my recollection is right that he sold more albums than individual singles right after AI. It may be that the album sales will be big and all the singles discussion will be moot, as I believe album sales really are more desireable.

I wouldn’t make too much of pre-sales, though, as historically pre-sales, particularly at Amazon, are not that large as a percentage of an artist’s first week sales. Notice on the top-10-ever-Amazon download list that at least one of those artists with really big preorders sold just over 100k of their album the first week. Not shabby, not at all, but not setting massive records, either.

I think any one of AL’s songs could blow up big if people like that kind of music and don’t find it too derivative or hear too much similar out there. I make no predictions at all. This is truly hard to gauge. I think a lot is riding on the AMA performance. I am no expert.

I’ve been researching some song history for some of my favorite “all time songs” and I find it very interesting. Songs, I thought, would have been instant successes sometimes took months to even get radio spins, and they often languished on music store shelves gathering dust. And then, all it took was a Saturday spin and live visit on American Bandstand or, more recently, a good video that captured people’s attention, or it’s use on a TV soundtrack.

Very few songs hit hard coming out of the gate, and if they did (because of a good fan base) they often fell out of favor just as swiftly because they didn’t pick up with a general audience.

So now I’m back to reading about the history of modern music while playing my favorite Righteous Brother’s hit which by the way has had a bit of radio play….over 8 million spins which:
‘The 8 million performances of ‘You’ve Lost that Lovin’ Feeling’ ‘  equals more than 45 years of back-to-back play.’ 

Media bias, this is the standard applied to most first singles. Most labels hope the singles rise up quickly and sell and/or chart high before the album comes out to support sales of the album. His sales pattern is not all that bad for any given new artist, but if people are comparing to a new artist with his visibility, I’d say yes, this is probably less in sales than his management hoped. However, again, I would not call him a flop at all. He is just not in the stratosphere some predicted, and we’ll have to wait for the album release and the AMAs to really know. These are just not inspiring numbers in this situation. But there are plenty of artists out there who would kill to be where he is at.

Not to mention the fact that there was a stub period of Friday to Sunday (10/30 to 11/1) when the single was only available on AO for which sales were never separately reported.

I’m still confused about why those sales were never counted. I’m one of the people who bought the single (not the free download with purchasing the album), during that period of time, and am surprised, to say the least, that my purchase didn’t count! Very strange. But, then, a lot is strange about the music industry. LOL

IMO, though, we can’t make any judgments yet on FYE’s success or lack thereof just yet. Look at the bump in sales that Kris got from being on Conan! That was great! Adam will be on the AMAs, GMA, and then Letterman next week, so let’s see what happens after that. They really haven’t started promo work yet, but that will be the start, and we’ll see if the single does OK or not after that. And, after we see the sales figures for the album, we can determine if people were buying the album instead of the single. Until then, we’re just making lots of guesses.

If WWFM takes off it will pull FYE in with it, and vice versa.

If that happens it will be a major chart anomaly. Cannibalization of one song or the other or both would be much, much more likely based on normal chart behavior.

I’m not sure if that is completely true because I buy an artists “other” songs becasue I liked the first one I downloaded. Lady Gaga is a perfect example. I downloaded one song, then another, then siad, “Oh what the heck! I just need to get the whole album.”

SashaB
11/16/2009 at 11:21 am

“So, OK. Kelly Clarkson, who’s sold millions of records and has a big overall following has finally driven her single SINCE MARCH to a good position.”

“This is Kelly’s third single off her March album drop. My Life Would Suck Without You, I Do Not Hook Up, and now Already Gone.

My Life Would Suck Without You actually broke the BB chart for biggest jump to #1 in the chart’s 50 year history. It jumped from 97 to 1. And sold 280,000 downloads in it’s first week. FYE isn’t anywhere close to that. LOL. And certainly not a chart history maker. Heh.”

Heh? Sorry, I never implied there should be any “chartmaker” power with Adam Lambert’s first single nin two weeks. You made MY point. perhaps inadvertently.

I said she was an established artist with a broad fan base so why do I care about comparing them or expecting similar results.

Re: My Top40 station gabilan asked: “They play Britney don’t they? Or maybe it’s the ‘OMG a male singer trying to sing a dancey song? Can’t have that!’ mentality?

Yes, but not as often as the HAC. And the new artists that the Top 40 station plays here are heavily weighted to Rhythmic and Hip-hop, not the Britney style dance pop. I can listen to my Top40 station for an hour in the afternoon and it’ll sound like a pure Rhythmic/HipHop station. At other times of day, it sounds more like the AT Top40 a la Ryan but it never leans toward dance pop. I suspect that’s because popular music in general is turning more toward Rhythmic/hip-hop type sounds.

And with that comment I will bow out. I’ve made my points the best I know how. And yes, it can take months for a song to catch on; sometimes even a year. It is actually pretty common. But it probably worries an artist’s management in the meantime.

Thanks, LadyM, for the specifics. I was pretty sure that was the case on Chinese Democracy and one pending release.

Yes, this is correct. GNR released on a Saturday last year and sales for the extended sales week were all reported together with their debut numbers. I believe they are doing the same thing with 50 Cent this year ‘“ releasing digitally a week early but counting all sales in with his physical debut week. There is precedent for this, though it tends to make the chart-watchers very cranky

Interesting…LLWD’s first three days on iTunes were counted separately. I wonder why they didn’t “roll those over” into the next week. It certainly would have helped the next week’s numbers.

I do believe my recollection is right that he sold more albums than individual singles right after AI.

Your recollection is wrong. Adam LAMBERT sold 923,000 singles after AI ended. It was in Brian Mansfield’s article. He didn’t sell that many albums.

Here’s the thing, LLWD has moved up the charts before his GMA, Ellen, MV and even Conan (which admittedly gave him a big boost). Yet with FYE we are told to wait until after all of these things. And in t he interim we now have WWFM in the mix and TfM is out there as well.

Sorry, but these 2 situations are completely different from each other, YMMV.

Kris has been doing a TON of radio promo that Adam hasn’t been. To me, this alone indicates a different PR strategy for each of them. And it’s definitely helped Kris get a lot of traction on the radio, which of course has helped sales. It’s not like Kris has been doing nothing and that alone got LLWD high on the charts before any of the album promo kicked in.

And as others pointed out, LLWD was dreadfully low (like 130-140 range) on itunes for awhile, then saw great movement upward. It’s hardly unheard of to go really low then move up based on more PR/exposure.

I do think RCA expected a much bigger Idol fan bounce to push the single into high sales visibility.

But see, if they REALLY expected this effect, why on earth did they roll it out like they did? On his site exclusively first, and in conjunction with the deluxe album? With this approach, only hardcore fans would know about and buy the single/album, and in no way would that actually “feed itself” so to speak, by bumping the song up on the itunes charts.

In other words, if I wanted that high visibility from hardcore fans from the get go, I would have released the song on itunes, with a banner headline on a Tuesday, and would have forced fans to buy it there where it would jump up the chart and gain more visibility based on the first days’ fan response (not unlike TFM), but they completely screwed their itunes roll out by having it available on his site first, and with the album. All of this makes me think that there is another strategy at work here.

IndyMuse, I enjoyed our dialogue. I hope you don’t bow out, because your arguments are sound, logical and non-emotional! It’s good to have someone be realistic as counterpoint to my grandiose hopes. Thanks for not brow-beating me.

I’m not sure if that is comepletely true becayse I buy an artists ‘other’  songs becasue I liked the first one I downloaded. Lady Gaga is a perfect example. I downloaded one song, then another, then siad, ‘Oh what the heck! I just need to get the whole album.’ 

Sure, but we’re not talking about consumer buying-behavior here, we’re talking about radio airplay patterns. It is exceedingly unusual for radio to give two brand new singles by any artist simultaneous airplay on the same format. The Lady Gaga songs that you mentioned, which prompted you to buy the album, were not released simultaneously. They were very carefully timed so that as one single starts to stall and fade, another is on the rise. This is not the case with FYE/WWFM, and if both are indeed being pushed to radio (which has yet to be determined), it would be a very unusual and IMO highly-risky radio strategy.

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 11:35 am

Media bias, this is the standard applied to most first singles. Most labels hope the singles rise up quickly and sell and/or chart high before the album comes out to support sales of the album. His sales pattern is not all that bad for any given new artist, but if people are comparing to a new artist with his visibility, I’d say yes, this is probably less in sales than his management hoped. However, again, I would not call him a flop at all. He is just not in the stratosphere some predicted, and we’ll have to wait for the album release and the AMAs to really know. These are just not inspiring numbers in this situation. But there are plenty of artists out there who would kill to be where he is at.

Thanks for the reply. I assume this was to your comment that I questioned:

I

ndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 10:38 am
Rowenaine, they clearly had every confidence in him when they signed him. However, there are now several mediocre results attached to his name

So umm…I’m getting from your expertise that Lambert was expected to be stratospheric by some (in two weeks) and in his mediocrity is still in a position that less mediocre performers would envy. Thanks.

CindyM, perhaps I should have clarified that I did not mean that very first week, and I did not mean the sum of EVERY single compared to the sales of the album. Of course they add up to more. That first week, a few might have sold more individually, too. I just recall for weeks that AL’s album sales were above Kris’s, but the singles were lower on iTunes. So clarifying my point.

But see, if they REALLY expected this effect, why on earth did they roll it out like they did? On his site exclusively first, and in conjunction with the deluxe album? With this approach, only hardcore fans would know about and buy the single/album, and in no way would that actually ‘feed itself’  so to speak, by bumping the song up on the itunes charts.

In other words, if I wanted that high visibility from hardcore fans from the get go, I would have released the song on itunes, with a banner headline on a Tuesday, and would have forced fans to buy it there where it would jump up the chart and gain more visibility based on the first days’ fan response (not unlike TFM), but they completely screwed their itunes roll out by having it available on his site first, and with the album. All of this makes me think that there is another strategy at work here.

Mary102, this is exactly what I’ve been driving at. RCA/19 clearly *know* the strategy that will get them single sales based on what you just listed AND YET went in a completely different direction. *shrug*

I’m anxious to see what the album sales are!

Not at two weeks though. Give FYE four more weeks to chart.
LLWD is just barely in the top 40. It’s a good sign, but it does prove that it takes time. I think AI fans have unrealsitic expectations as a whole.

Well we’ll never really know with FYE because the media blitz will happen before the 4 weeks are up.

I don’t have unrealistic expectations as I was on board with the let’s be patient thing in regards to LLWD. I felt the same way about FYE. My problem is with RCA muddying the waters with WWFM at this point.

ladymadonna: Yes, this is correct. GNR released on a Saturday last year and sales for the extended sales week were all reported together with their debut numbers. I believe they are doing the same thing with 50 Cent this year ‘“ releasing digitally a week early but counting all sales in with his physical debut week. There is precedent for this, though it tends to make the chart-watchers very cranky.

So what you’re saying is that there was full disclosure ahead of time and presumably in some chart somewhere, there’s an asterisk by these albums’ numbers.

Where’s the disclosure on Adam’s numbers and where’s his asterisk? Again, monkeying with the reporting system with no corresponding disclosure would kill the integrity of the system.

My problem is with RCA muddying the waters with WWFM at this point.

I didn’t see this answered yet (though I may have missed it). Did WWFM go for adds? Because I still say that OHP played WWFM as a lark, maybe because they just flat-out liked it, and it caught the attention of a couple other radio stations. I don’t think RCA “put it out there” as a single. It just happens to be one of the “free downloads” you get with purchase of the CE album on AO. OHP could have played “Master Plan” instead (or FYE, lol)but didn’t.

Now maybe RCA got some very positive feedback from focus groups on both WWFM and MP and that’s why they were made available before album release…so that *someone* might pick one or both of them up. I’d love to know!

What I am trying to say, there is a LOT more interest in Adam outside of AI, name another contestant that had opportunities like 2012, AMAs, Queen interest etc. I will admit I never followed anyone Adam, and even though I watched AI for a few years and cheered and voted for Jordin, and Cook, but forgot about them until I heard them on the radio, never buying cds of going to concerts, so I am no expert. Adam is the only one I cared enough to follow after the show was over, he absolutely won me and my gut instincts tell me that he will be bigger that anything out AI, and if that doesn’t happen I promise to eat my Amazon copy of his cd (will continue listening to the I-tunes one, lol)

The thing is, though, that, so far, most of the interest has been driven by prurient curiosity rather than interest in music, including the AMA gig — the AMAs have never pretended to be about anything other than garnering big audiences; and they’ll take a big audience drawn in by any means, whether through music or prurient curiosity of some kind.

I mean, that’s *always* true of anybody who gets a lot of press attention — I happen to think that Angelina Jolie is a wonderful actor, but that isn’t in the least what’s behind her being a big media sensation. She would probably get almost as much media attention if she were a crappy actor. Same for Adam at this point, I believe (this does not apply to various musicians saying that he’s a great great singer, of course.) But it does apply to the magazine covers and so on.

So, for me, the attention he’s getting really means nothing about whether he’ll actually become wildly popular based on his music. He’s fabulously talented musically, but many fabulously talented musicians never enjoy huge or even modest mainstream success. Getting the media attention *can* be a tool for building musical success, I think — people pay attention, most for non-musical reasons, and then they may hear music that they like and buy and listen based on that later on. But that’s all it is — a tool, not evidence of anything.

For evidence, we’ll have to wait a while to see how his radio play and music sales and tour-ticket sales, etc., develop. Just like for any other Idol. And I do think radio play is going to be kind of tough for Adam because he kind of represents a different genre (male electro-pop) than what’s currently being played. And what’s currently being played rules. … I think the rest of the world is likely to be a bit friendlier to male electro-pop than the U.S. is currently, too.

ladymadonna: Yes, this is correct. GNR released on a Saturday last year and sales for the extended sales week were all reported together with their debut numbers. I believe they are doing the same thing with 50 Cent this year ‘“ releasing digitally a week early but counting all sales in with his physical debut week. There is precedent for this, though it tends to make the chart-watchers very cranky.

But in the instances where there is precedent, it’s been reported publicly that this was what they are doing. I don’t see RCA trying to sneak that by without disclosure. Therefore, can we conclude that the numbers didn’t get rolled into the next week, since it wasn’t announced as such?

I have no problem with this ‘“ my problem is saying that Adam/FYE just needs the national exposure, etc. Kris/LLWd managed to chart without it so it seems funny to me to claim Adam needs something that he shuoldn’t.

Kris also had a ton of radio promo and radio concert appearances during that time. It didn’t help his sales, but it certainly helped his spins. Almost every other day there was a new radio interview being reported here on these blogs. I’m new to all of this, but every headline thread lately has talked about how radio promo and payola concerts are the way to gear up the radio play until the song is up there. Adam has done none of that yet. FYE and LLWD are at the same place two weeks out. Kris did do a little promo before he went to London. Didn’t he do the Boston radio station gig on the rooftop? I thought that was the same day or the day after the z-100 premiere.

Re: My Top40 station gabilan asked: ‘They play Britney don’t they? Or maybe it’s the ‘OMG a male singer trying to sing a dancey song? Can’t have that!’ mentality?

Yes, but not as often as the HAC. And the new artists that the Top 40 station plays here are heavily weighted to Rhythmic and Hip-hop, not the Britney style dance pop.

I don’t necessarily disagree that there is more hip-hop than dance pop on Top 40 these days. But I must strongly disagree that more dance pop shows up on HAC. CHR has 2 Lady Gaga tracks, Kesha, and Britney. HAC has one much softer-charting Lady Gaga, and…that’s it. (I suppose you might count the BEP, but tracks show up both places, so that doesn’t really prove a difference.)

I just don’t think that one can reasonably argue that dance pop has a more natural home on pop-rock, singer-songwriter tilted HAC than on CHR.

I also don’t think it matters that much. The singles will do what they do, and it’s really early to forecast. I just don’t see ANY reason to assume that FYE would be pushed to HAC while WDYWFM would go to CHR.

Current CHR Top 20

JASON DERULO Whatcha Say
1 1 2 LADY GAGA Paparazzi
1 3 3 JAY SEAN Down f/Lil Wayne
1 4 4 MILEY CYRUS Party In The USA
5 5 5 BEYONCE Sweet Dreams
6 6 6 BRITNEY SPEARS 3
7 8 7 OWL CITY Fireflies
7 7 8 KELLY CLARKSON Already Gone
9 12 9 IYAZ Replay
10 9 10 BLACK EYED PEAS Meet Me Halfway
1 10 11 TAYLOR SWIFT You Belong With Me
1 11 12 KINGS OF LEON Use Somebody
13 17 13 DAVID GUETTA Sexy Chick f/Akon
14 14 14 JUSTIN BIEBER One Time
1 15 15 BLACK EYED PEAS I Gotta Feeling
9 13 16 JAY-Z/RIHANNA/KANYE WEST Run This Town
17 20 17 LADY GAGA Bad Romance
19 23 18 KESHA Tik Tok
18 19 19 CASCADA Evacuate The Dancefl…
17 18 20 COLBIE CAILLAT Fallin’ For You

HAC Top 20
KELLY CLARKSON Already Gone
1 1 2 KINGS OF LEON Use Somebody
2 2 3 COLBIE CAILLAT Fallin’ For You
2 4 4 TAYLOR SWIFT You Belong With Me
5 8 5 UNCLE KRACKER Smile
4 6 6 BLACK EYED PEAS I Gotta Feeling
7 9 7 ROB THOMAS Someday
1 5 8 DAUGHTRY No Surprise
7 7 9 MICHAEL FRANTI & SPEARHEAD Say Hey (I Love You)
10 12 10 OWL CITY Fireflies
1 10 11 PINK Please Don’t Leave M…
11 11 12 BON JOVI We Weren’t Born To F…
13 13 13 TRAIN Hey, Soul Sister
14 15 14 MILEY CYRUS Party In The USA
15 16 15 NICKELBACK Never Gonna Be Alone
16 17 16 FIVE FOR FIGHTING Chances
17 19 17 LADY GAGA Paparazzi
18 18 18 INGRID MICHAELSON Maybe
19 21 19 LIFEHOUSE Halfway Gone
19 20 20 JOHN MAYER Who Says

In other words, if I wanted that high visibility from hardcore fans from the get go, I would have released the song on itunes, with a banner headline on a Tuesday, and would have forced fans to buy it there where it would jump up the chart and gain more visibility based on the first days’ fan response (not unlike TFM), but they completely screwed their itunes roll out by having it available on his site first, and with the album. All of this makes me think that there is another strategy at work here.

I agree and that is exactly why I think they are banking on the album. The album is too good to not do well. Adam is too talented to not do well.
I know, lots of new artists have darn good albums that go nowhere. But Adam does have the Idol visibility and a fabulous album. I think once the album gets out there it will be huge.

I watched FYE spins very closely on yes.com for 5-6 days and it’s clear that larger-market Top40 stations have been slow to play FYE. Is this a normal situation?

Yes. For most songs, the smaller stations pick them up first. With some exceptions, most people get a couple of top-20-market stations and otherwise just smaller ones in the first few weeks. The larger stations are the more conservative ones when it comes to adding music, except in cases where they’ve worked out some kind of deal with the label to debut the song (and sometimes not even then). I guess they’re more conservative because they have more money to lose. Seems dumb to me, but it’s all business decisions. None of this is about djs picking what songs they like or don’t like. Program directors are picking the songs that they think will bring in the most listeners to hear their ads. Period.

So what you’re saying is that there was full disclosure ahead of time and presumably in some chart somewhere, there’s an asterisk by these albums’ numbers. Where’s the disclosure on Adam’s numbers and where’s his asterisk? Again, monkeying with the reporting system with no corresponding disclosure would kill the integrity of the system.

There’s no asterisk. Once Billboard makes a decision on how they are going to handle the data and publishes, it’s done. There are certainly many regulars at places like Pulse and UKMIX with very long memories who keep the history alive (and many would agree with you about the integrity of the system). But Billboard changes their rules and makes exceptions so frequently that their magazine would be peppered with asterisks if they decided to note them. There’s context and commentary behind every chart number, which is why these threads always extend well beyond Kirsten’s opening post.

But in the instances where there is precedent, it’s been reported publicly that this was what they are doing. I don’t see RCA trying to sneak that by without disclosure. Therefore, can we conclude that the numbers didn’t get rolled into the next week, since it wasn’t announced as such?

Personally I don’t think we can conclude anything at all. I still think it’s equally likely that the numbers were rolled into the first week as it is that they weren’t reported at all. But you are welcome to conclude whichever you like. The reported number of ~18,000 units sold is what FYE has to build from at this point.

Didn’t he do the Boston radio station gig on the rooftop? I thought that was the same day or the day after the z-100 premiere.

this was before his song premiered and the reason he actually didn’t play his song at the event.

A week from Wednesday when Kris’ album sales are in, and the following Wednesday when Adam’s are released will be the only days “numbers” I am interested in. I don’t listen to radio, don’t buy singles, and (even though I NOW spend an inordinate amount of time online) really do pick-up my music from the real world.

If both of these Artists promote their albums during the sales period (which they are both intending) then they both will have some “real world” numbers to include into their totals.

Then we can all compare and contrast these two against each other and we can get a “feel” about how they are doing in relation to past idols. I will also be considering that album sales have dropped almost 20% per year over the last eight years. So whatever the idols did last year need to be reduced by 20% and what Kelly did needs to be reduced by about 75% and what Daughtry did by about 50%. That’s fair based on current sales figures.

See you then.

I know it’s exhausting (yet still fun) to speculate especially reading it coming from Adam fans but as an outsider this is how I see it:

Adam in TPTB’s mind is the best artist that came from Idol. He is already a star out of the gate so they treat him as a STAR. They went all out on their budget to launch his career. They surrounded him with A-list
songwriters/producers (which equals to costing a lot of money)

They shot his first music video for TFM which sure cost a lot of money. And now they are producing another music video for FYE, which looked like a big budgeted production. (more money spent).

Then there is this AMA performance, the whole “shebang” I would presume with heavy production, back-up dancers, pyrotechnics, glitters and what not (more money)

Whoever said about the ADAM storm weeks ago was right. I believed the first storm started with TFM release. TPTB was hoping the 2012 buzz will help sell the single and the music video, unfortunately, it didn’t.

The second storm happened with FYE radio and itunes release. RCA was probably expecting radio to spin the song right way, after all this is ADAM, the greatest artist in this generation. Unfortunately, radio did not respond as RCA hoped for.

Some will argue that ADAM is a new artist, yes he is, but my argument is RCA does not see him as that. They view him as Freddie Mercury, Michael Jackson and Boy George rolled into one.

Remember Kelly’s “My life would suck” single (with RCA) was picked up and played instantaneously, and Kelly is no Michael Jackson.

Pink’s “So What” and Britney’s “Womanizer” became instant hit the minute it was premiered on radio.

Remember ADAM is treated by TPTB as an established artist much like Pink and Brittney who by the way are JIVE artists. Unfortunately TPTB and Radio’s music directors do not see eye-to-eye.

I believe the 3rd and strongest storm is happening now with the release of his 3rd single WWFM and will extend and run longer past Adam’s album release. THE AMA performance, THE FYE video release, TV guestings, etc., etc…

I have not seen any kind of support given to a new artist at this level, ever.

A 1-2-3 punch

I really, really hope ADAM’s career will take off with this 3rd storm or he will be in a huge debt coming out from this storm.

He is very talented, seems genuinely nice and a charmer….

Seems to me FYE is doing just fine for being out only a few weeks. I do think RCA probably should have released it several weeks sooner in order to allow the song to gain more traction before the AMAs. However, I’m sure there was a reason for the delay—whether it be the question of TfM (and I do think there was some confusion about the role of the mv and the tie in with This Is It, which turned out to be, really, nothing) or some type of conflict over picking the single or the addition of an AMA performance—who knows.

I don’t have unrealistic expectations as I was on board with the let’s be patient thing in regards to LLWD. I felt the same way about FYE. My problem is with RCA muddying the waters with WWFM at this point.

Exactly. If there had been no WWFM spins this morning, most people would have just been congratulating on FYE charting in the Top 50, but everybody seems to be ignoring that (Yay Daughtry, Carrie and Adam!). WWFM has completely thrown a hand grenade in this discussion because it’s so unusual for a non-single song to get high profile spins and introductions as “new single” and “second single” so early in the game when FYE is in its infancy.

In the end, it may be Much Ado about Nothing. It may be that WWFM is just creating a temporary Tempest and All’s Well that End’s Well for FYE. Or it may be that FYE is a Love’s Labour’s Lost and will be dropped. Or maybe RCA is just a Comedy of Errors.

Some may ask, why would RCA lose patience in FYE? Well, maybe they got bad feedback on it (bad responses from program managers and call-out data). If a song isn’t going to work on radio, better to cut your losses before you waste all your promo efforts on it. Lots of REALLY good songs don’t work on radio, so it’s not and indictment of either the song or Adam. Meanwhile, maybe WWFD got off the chart responses. With dropping a single so soon before an album and the Christmas freeze about to occur, RCA may feel that it has less time to be patient. Jive had 8 weeks to grow the song. RCA has far less time. To me, this is a strategy discussion, not a “Your Idol Sucks” discussion.

SBC
11/16/2009 at 12:03 pm
Whoever said about the ADAM storm weeks ago was right. I believed the first storm started with TFM release. TPTB was hoping the 2012 buzz will help sell the single and the music video, unfortunately, it didn’t.

Well, the “Adam storm” phrase was coined by someone on the IDF board (I think) who’s uncle works for some aspect of 19 Entertainment. She’s the only person who ever used that term, but it spread all over twitter like wildfire. Not sure there ever *was* an Adam storm. On the other hand, everything Adam does is followed by huge interest – so it could *all* be considered an Adam storm. LOL

Have the labels ever spent this much money on any idol for:
1) Their musicians – Adam has a couple of well-known experienced musicians. We don’t know who they all are yet. Might be more surprises to come.
2) MV director. Well known and respected. This guy doesn’t come cheap.
3) Performance/tour director – also a well-known director who doesn’t come cheap.

I don’t know the names of 2) and 3) at the top of my head, but they would be easy to look up (I’m too lazy).

Something tells me Adam’s album sales are pretty decent because they are pulling out all the stops and giving him everyone he has asked for and then some. Why spend this much money on his mv and tour if his sales are dismal. He is going to have a kickass tour, let me tell you

Some may ask, why would RCA lose patience in FYE? Well, maybe they got bad feedback on it (bad responses from program managers and call-out data). If a song isn’t going to work on radio, better to cut your losses before you waste all your promo efforts on it. Lots of REALLY good songs don’t work on radio, so it’s not and indictment of either the song or Adam. Meanwhile, maybe WWFD got off the chart responses. With dropping a single so soon before an album and the Christmas freeze about to occur, RCA may feel that it has less time to be patient. Jive had 8 weeks to grow the song. RCA has far less time. To me, this is a strategy discussion, not a ‘Your Idol Sucks’  discussion.

Great post, Kirsten. I do wonder if it has to do with feedback from PDs on the one hand (for FYE) and focus groups on the other (for WWFM).

I believe Adam will do well in album sales his first week. What “well” means exactly, I have a hard time getting my arms around. As for radio airplay — which will dictate continued sales of his album outside the invested fanbase which typically snatches it up in the first few weeks — I am really surprised that DJs from the largest radio station in the nation would openly state that they don’t like a particular single by a debut artist — especially an artist that they talked about and liked during his AI run. Is the meme out to the radio folks that FYE is out and RCA will release a new single to try to salvage his radio airplay future? I know radio DJs are a bunch of d-bags, but they usually rag on artists/celebrities they don’t expect to play on their station, and to say they don’t like a particular song that an artist is releasing kinda gets to the heart of the matter.

Just a quick question. Other than Adam’s official site is FYE or WAWFM streaming on an official station? (like Yahoo music, or AOL) [I'm not talking about bootlegged copies on blog sites].

While I disagree with the popular theory that Adam is an “album” artist. I do think that WWFM was purposely put out by RCA to sell FYE the album.

I am really surprised that DJs from the largest radio station in the nation would openly state that they don’t like a particular single by a debut artist ‘” especially an artist that they talked about and liked during his AI run.

Well I’ve heard Elvis Duran trash lots of artist’s songs before. Especially if they aren’t in studio.

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 10:38 am

they clearly had every confidence in him when they signed him. However, there are now several mediocre results attached to his name. His sales immediately after AI were pretty good but not stellar; TfM, despite being attached to a top-selling movie, has not gone much of anywhere; fye is not catching on on radio or iTunes.

There was a very interesting discussion going on a couple of days ago about the results of two of David Cook’s singles, Permanent and Bar-ba-sol, and the argument was made that the actual chart performance and sales results of both songs were misleading. Permanent was released in May of 2009, was performed only once (although on the AI finale before millions) and never went to radio (if I remember correctly). It peaked at #24 on the Billboard Charts and the charity version sold approx. 60,000 while the album version sold another 100,000. Bar-ba-sol was release only to rock radio in March of 2009 and never charted on Billboard. I don’t have its sales numbers.

Putting asided the situation of fye (because I don’t believe the book has been written on that song yet), I would argue that the numbers for TfM are similarly misleading. Neither Adam nor Cook really promoted their respective songs nor performed them nor did any of the standard things that would normally garner airplay to drive sales of the singles. Permanent had the advantage of being performed to a huge national audience plus it had the sentimental appeal of being a song whose profits were going to a worthy cause and one near and dear to the hearts of David and his fans.

Nevertheless, I’m not prepared to judge David based on songs that for whatever reason were thrown out there and never promoted. I’m not prepared to label Adam’s results for TfM mediocre for the same reasons.

BestAI
11/16/2009 at 12:09 pm

Have the labels ever spent this much money on any idol for:
1) Their musicians ‘“ Adam has a couple of well-known experienced musicians. We don’t know who they all are yet. Might be more surprises to come.
2) MV director. Well known and respected. This guy doesn’t come cheap.
3) Performance/tour director ‘“ also a well-known director who doesn’t come cheap.

I don’t know the names of 2) and 3) at the top of my head, but they would be easy to look up (I’m too lazy).

Something tells me Adam’s album sales are pretty decent because they are pulling out all the stops and giving him everyone he has asked for and then some. Why spend this much money on his mv and tour if his sales are dismal. He is going to have a kickass tour, let me tell you

You’ve obviously not heard of recoupment. Seriously, The labels expect to get their money back and will get it back before the artist recovers a cent.

It is fun to speculate. I wonder if there was some in-house conflict over which of Adam’s songs to release as the first single. There were lots of rumors about the Pink song being the single, then came word of the AMA performance and FYE announced as the single shortly followed. Someone at RCA obviously likes WWFM as it was made available for download with the album purchase along with FYE.

I am still wondering why 19/RCA made FYE (just the single, not talking album with free single download) available on AO first, for several days before Itunes. I never, ever go to AO, but I did that first day strictly to buy the single. This really took the kick out of first day iTunes sales. RCA had to know that would happen—what was the purpose? Were they trying to attract people to AO? Or, was this a way to try to measure Adam’s Idol fanbase? Or do they just not care, along as people are buying somewhere?

So whatever the idols did last year need to be reduced by 20% and what Kelly did needs to be reduced by about 75% and what Daughtry did by about 50%. That’s fair based on current sales figures.

Ouch. Just ouch.

In the end, it may be Much Ado about Nothing. It may be that WWFM is just creating a temporary Tempest and All’s Well that End’s Well for FYE. Or it may be that FYE is a Love’s Labour’s Lost and will be dropped. Or maybe RCA is just a Comedy of Errors.

Lol to Shakespeare references. That is all.

lucy: Yes. For most songs, the smaller stations pick them up first. With some exceptions, most people get a couple of top-20-market stations and otherwise just smaller ones in the first few weeks. The larger stations are the more conservative ones when it comes to adding music, except in cases where they’ve worked out some kind of deal with the label to debut the song (and sometimes not even then).

Thanks for answering my question, lucy, as I was very curious. I did notice that FYE has been picked up in a few HAC top-20 markets (NYC, STL) but no U.S. Top40 top-20 markets (some have played it, but only a few times). However in Canada it has been added in both the #1 and #2 Top40 markets. Go figure.

Hoping this week’s adds and spins will change the AI picture for the better.

I would imagine that Adam’s album is in the hands of every radio station, every major reviewer, every large media outlet by this time. I’m amazed that it isn’t already plastered all over the internet by now (somebody is pretty slow on this one). There is a certain PR protocol that is established and RCA has probably sent out all the stuff already. Reviews will be written long before the album goes to “public sale”. That is why radio stations have the album. And if they want to play something off of it…they can, once the songs have gone public. And WAWFM is now “public” because it is available on Adam’s official fansite.

So whatever the idols did last year need to be reduced by 20% and what Kelly did needs to be reduced by about 75% and what Daughtry did by about 50%. That’s fair based on current sales figures.

Ouch. Just ouch.

Why ouch? That Adam and Kris aren’t quite at Daughtry or Kelly levels of success yet? Hmm, might take a little more time. Just saying.

Why ouch? That Adam and Kris aren’t quite at Daughtry or Kelly levels of success yet? Hmm, might take a little more time. Just saying.

No….ouch that sales suck so bad. I believe these #’s were given to demonstrate how the market has changed. not to say than any idol is better or worse.

So whatever the idols did last year need to be reduced by 20% and what Kelly did needs to be reduced by about 75% and what Daughtry did by about 50%. That’s fair based on current sales figures.

Well, 20% is a bit of hyperbole. From last week’s Billboard: Year to date album sales stand at 294.4 million, down 13% compared to the same total at this point last year (339.3 million). But based solely on initial single sales, yes, a 20% drop from last year’s Idol album debuts would be very good for both Kris and Adam.

I still have absolutely no clue what ballpark they’re going to be in, but if we’re going to go with your 20% decline over last year, we’re talking somewhere in the range of 146K – 224K? This Wednesday’s 1-day estimates for Kris should start to tell the tale…

And WAWFM is now ‘public’  because it is available on Adam’s official fansite.

True. Once an album is released, stations can spin any song on the album (Carrie’s album tracks got a fair number of spins a couple of weeks ago).

That’s normal. What’s not normal are for more than one of those radio stations to unilaterally start refering to one of those album tracks as the “second single” or “new single” with no input from the label.

BTW Most stations will wait until the album is released before spinning the non-single tracks. WWFM is some nether region of being released to album buyers on the fansite, but not released for general sales. Lots of unique situations going on here.

I have a question about how LLWD is doing. It is getting a lot of spins in both Hot AC and Top 40 in New York. But it hasn’t gotten ANY radio play at all here in Los Angeles. Since that’s the 2nd largest market in the country, I have to wonder whether it is unusual to be in the Top 40 on Pop and just outside the Top 20 on HAC while being totally ignored by such a big market — or whether this is fairly common.

Okay, I lied, I have a question. Is WWFM up for adds yet? I went to the site that has FYE, media base, and didn’t see it. Would it be there if it got added but not for spins? And we won’t see anything till this afternoon for add, is that right, but will see spins?

JUST CURIOUS, NOT WORRIED.

lol In other less exciting news TfM now has two AC adds:

KMGL-FM Pub 0 0 0 AC Oklahoma City Sony Renda Broadcasting Corporation 48 11/16/2009

WLDB-FM Pub 0 0 0 AC Milwaukee Sony Milwaukee Radio Alliance LLC 37 11/13/2009

Didn’t see this posted yet, so sorry if it was. Seems that TfM got two since Friday (both AC). Wonder if we’ll start seeing stations picking it up now that the movie is out?

I have a question about how LLWD is doing. It is getting a lot of spins in both Hot AC and Top 40 in New York. But it hasn’t gotten ANY radio play at all here in Los Angeles. Since that’s the 2nd largest market in the country, I have to wonder whether it is unusual to be in the Top 40 on Pop and just outside the Top 20 on HAC while being totally ignored by such a big market ‘” or whether this is fairly common.

girlygirl, I think LA is known not to spin this type of stuff very much. I’m pretty sure that’s been mentioned numerous times before. While I can’t judge too well since I’m in NY,if you look at the Mediabase spin counts, LLWD seems to be doing well in numerous locations, not just in NY.

All the kids I know are hooked up to their iPods 24/7 and pass their music among themselves mostly without paying. It’s amazing anyone sells anything these days. And all these different categories give me a headache. I don’t know what all those initials mean and I really don’t want to know but it seems to me that having a zillion different music categories limits exposure to new artists on the radio like Adam who don’t conveniently fit into a box. But then we knew that would be a problem with Adam from the get go.

I never listen to music on the radio but I do watch VH1′s top 20 show on the weekend. I record it and watch it a little at a time and zoom through the numbers that bore me.

lol In other less exciting news TfM now has two AC adds:

KMGL-FM Pub 0 0 0 AC Oklahoma City Sony Renda Broadcasting Corporation 48 11/16/2009

WLDB-FM Pub 0 0 0 AC Milwaukee Sony Milwaukee Radio Alliance LLC 37 11/13/2009

OMG! Three singles! I don’t think I can keep up with three songs-mediabase, sales, spins, adds…

Los Angeles is slow as hell. And the Top 40 Pop station is a Top 40 Rhythmic station in disguise. I don’t expect KIIS to play LLWD unless it’s Top 10 or something ridiculous. KBIG should come around soon.

Adam who don’t conveniently fit into a box. But then we knew that would be a problem with Adam from the get go.

I don’t get this. Musically he’s a pop artist. RCA seems to think so as well because they aren’t taking the Owl City approach and give him adds for every single format they thought was plausible. I would have thought that they’d at least try for rhythmic adds but they haven’t.

And the Top 40 Pop station is a Top 40 Rhythmic station in disguise.

Thank you. That’s what I’ve been saying about the one by me. I suspect many of the urban market Top40 stations lean this way.

Well, “Whaddya Want From Me” is, indeed, listed on Mediabase. No adds as yet.

http://addboard.mediabase.com/AddDetails.asp?sngcde=LAMBWWFM

Kirsten:
What happens to single sales when an album is released. Will LLWD sales totals go down when Kris’ album is released? Will this affect LLWD as far as the top 40?

ooops-I see WWFM is listed in the mediabase…let the analyzing begin!

OMG! Three singles! I don’t think I can keep up with three songs-mediabase, sales, spins, adds’ ¦

LOL I don’t think we’ll need to keep an eye out on TfM. If it does much, it’ll be slow growth.

jms
Thank you. That’s what I’ve been saying about the one by me. I suspect many of the urban market Top40 stations lean this way.

Yep. Blame the suburbs near LA that usually have their own Top 40/HAC stations that lean towards rock songs. Places like LA are fighting with Urban and Hispanic Urban formats for ratings, so they are going to lean in that direction. New York is different because they don’t have suburb stations siphoning the audience that wants more rock leaning songs. They have to have a mix or else risk losing audience to WPLJ.

Exactly, Mary. Not to mention the fact that there was a stub period of Friday to Sunday (10/30 to 11/1) when the single was only available on AO for which sales were never separately reported. We have the 18,000 number but that supposedly covers the period 11/2 to 11/8. What happened to those weekend numbers when interest was presumably at its highest peak for the hardcore fans who follow everything Adam? Did they roll those numbers into the following week? I really don’t think so. For the sake of the integrity of the reporting system, I seriously doubt that would be allowed. Otherwise, people would constantly try to manipulate the system.

Considering the Nielsen releases the totals for all singles, why woudn’t they add the totals that were available from the week before to Adam’s full total for the week of the 2nd? That just doesn’t make any sense to me. They never release one week totals without also releasing the grand total. What purpose would it serve RCA to hold back on these figures, especially since it would have helped the single if RCA could have promoted that it made the Billboard 100, and it will help if the single sales gold or more. Based on what the song sold during it’s initial time on itunes, amazon and the rest, I’m guessing that the grand total wasn’t higher than the 18,000 units that were reported.

just because its listed on mediabase doesnt mean anything.. lol Whole albums of songs get listed on media base.. heck idol songs get listed on media base…

So, are we to assume that, at the very least, WWFM will be single number two? Whether it was planned to be or not? And now Adam can officially have three singles out that can compete with each other for the already hard to get airplay? And, is there actually one person at RCA overseeing things, or has it just become a free-for-all with everything Adam, lol.

What happens to single sales when an album is released. Will LLWD sales totals go down when Kris’ album is released? Will this affect LLWD as far as the top 40?

Usually, when an album gets released, you see an uptick on single sales (and sometimes some other album tracks charting). This is due to the promo that occurs (singing on various shows) and because people decide to only buy some of the album tracks. That’s why new music Tuesday normally pushes down some of the other songs.

If lots of people “complete my album”, though, sales reported to SS decline since the earlier singles are returned. Singles can actually go negative in sales (for instance, Taylor Swift’s Love Story disappeaered from the download chart the week her album was released only to bounce back the next week with negative sales reported for the previous week).

Single sales are not a contributing factor to the Top 40 which is strictly an airplay chart. It would affect the Hot 100 though which is a blended sales, streaming and airplay chart (there are a few of those). I think the industry is used to “returns” softening single sales during release weeks, so they won’t be concerned if that happens. If a single does really well in sales, radio stations may consider that one of the positives towards adding it to their playlist (but they really are more dependent on call-out data, airplay by other stations and the skills of their program manager).

Kris also had a ton of radio promo and radio concert appearances during that time. It didn’t help his sales, but it certainly helped his spins.

There’s usually a bit of a lag time between spin increase and sales boost, though, no? On that basis, isn’t there now evidence that the promo *has* helped keep his sales up somewhat?

frogcooke
11/16/2009 at 12:52 pm
just because its listed on mediabase doesnt mean anything.. lol Whole albums of songs get listed on media base.. heck idol songs get listed on media base’ ¦

Oh, good. I didn’t realize that. I thought it was just songs that were expected to go to radio for adds. I’m constantly learning on this blog, I tell ya!

If lots of people ‘complete my album’ , though, sales reported to SS decline since the earlier singles are returned. Singles can actually go negative in sales (for instance, Taylor Swift’s Love Story disappeaered from the download chart the week her album was released only to bounce back the next week with negative sales reported for the previous week).

Thanks. So if LLWD or FYE goes backwards, it doesn’t really hurt in the top 40 or in the long run. I thought that’s what you had stated before. That is good information to know BEFORE these next two weeks! (to possibly ward off undo panic)

Yay! An add today for FYE:

* WSSX-FM Pub 13 Top 40 Charleston, SC RCA/RCAMG Citadel Communications Corp. 84 11/16/2009 9:54:00 AM

I have a question about how LLWD is doing. It is getting a lot of spins in both Hot AC and Top 40 in New York. But it hasn’t gotten ANY radio play at all here in Los Angeles. Since that’s the 2nd largest market in the country, I have to wonder whether it is unusual to be in the Top 40 on Pop and just outside the Top 20 on HAC while being totally ignored by such a big market ‘” or whether this is fairly common.

Well, I don’t have a lot of knowledge of this, but to the extent that I’ve looked, it seems to me that songs either start with LA support or with NY support, and only a very very few get added quickly in both cities. … Don’t know why that is, but it does seem to be a fairly common pattern for either LA or NY to start early and then the other one to lag quite a long time behind, even as a song is picking up play in other places around the country ….

I do think RCA expected a much bigger Idol fan bounce to push the single into high sales visibility.

I disagree.

Mary102: But see, if they REALLY expected this effect, why on earth did they roll it out like they did? On his site exclusively first, and in conjunction with the deluxe album? With this approach, only hardcore fans would know about and buy the single/album, and in no way would that actually ‘feed itself’  so to speak, by bumping the song up on the itunes charts.

In other words, if I wanted that high visibility from hardcore fans from the get go, I would have released the song on itunes, with a banner headline on a Tuesday, and would have forced fans to buy it there where it would jump up the chart and gain more visibility based on the first days’ fan response (not unlike TFM), but they completely screwed their itunes roll out by having it available on his site first, and with the album. All of this makes me think that there is another strategy at work here.

YES!! Absolutely. In other words, if they had wanted “high sales visibility” for the single, they would have followed the same strategy they used for David Cook’s single, LO, which was 1) make the song available for download as a single only on 10/5/08 and then 2) three weeks later on 10/26/08 put the album up for pre-order on iTunes, because by that time most of the hardcore fans will have already purchased the single. And even though the album purchasers got a free download of the single at the time of their pre-order (on or after 10/26), it didn’t negate the single they had previously bought on 10/5/08 – it was merely their second copy of the single which they fully paid for when they officially purchased the album on 11/23/08.

In other words, pushing the single into high sales visibility is basically selling the song twice to the hardcore fan group. Which RCA didn’t do in Adma’s case. Instead RCA used the single to drive album sales – not iTunes album sales or Amazon album sales – but RCA album sales.

Yay! An add today for FYE:

Yep. I’m crossing my fingers for a whole bunch more. If we don’t get them, FYE will have a real problem getting any higher on the charts.

Sorry if anyone has posted this

LW TW artist / album label power index
1 1 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 19/ARISTA NASHVILLE 61,804

Yep. I’m crossing my fingers for a whole bunch more. If we don’t get them, FYE will have a real problem getting any higher on the charts.

Okay-before everyone freaks out. LLWD had 9 total adds its third week. IT is in the top 40 right now.

jms
11/16/2009 at 1:07 pm
Yep. I’m crossing my fingers for a whole bunch more. If we don’t get them, FYE will have a real problem getting any higher on the charts.

It’s exciting because it’s a Top 40 station that has already spun it 13 times – so, wouldn’t that mean they got good feedback?

ETA: LOL Tiger92 – no freak out here. I’m still on the “RCA is pushing the album” bandwagon. I just get excited over the little things in life.

It’s exciting because it’s a Top 40 station that has already spun it 13 times ‘“ so, wouldn’t that mean they got good feedback?

It’s an auto-add. It’s being added because it got 13 spins. The good news is that the station will probably keep spinning it. The bad news is that it probably won’t help with the spincrease numbers because these spins are already accounted for (it will keep the numbers from dropping, though).

Some stations use auto-adds. Others rely on program managers making a decision.

Oh, good. I didn’t realize that. I thought it was just songs that were expected to go to radio for adds. I’m constantly learning on this blog, I tell ya!

Here is a good place to learn and keep up : http://www.allaccess.com/

Today’s the add date for HAC right? Tomorrow is Top 40?

tiger92
11/16/2009 at 1:13 pm
Yep. I’m crossing my fingers for a whole bunch more. If we don’t get them, FYE will have a real problem getting any higher on the charts.

Okay-before everyone freaks out. LLWD had 9 total adds its third week. IT is in the top 40 right now

According to the add history of LLWD it had 9 adds on the week of September 28th, which was just one week after it was released. The next week it added six stations, so how could it only have 9 total adds by it’s third weeK?

http://addboard.mediabase.com/SongAddHistory.asp?Sngcde=ALLELLWD&ob=1&format=XX

Here are the reporting deadlines for adds in various formats (all times Pacific):

AC – Mon 3PM
Active Rock – Tue NOON
Alternative – Tue 3PM
Canada-AC – Tue 2PM
Canada-ActiveRock – Tue 2PM
Canada-AltRock - Tue 2PM
Canada-Country – Tue 2PM
Canada-Hot Ac – Tue 2PM
Canada-Top 40 – Tue 2PM
Christian AC – Mon 11AM
Country – Mon NOON
Gospel – Mon 11AM
Hot AC – Mon 3PM
Latin Urban – Tue NOON
Mainstream Rock – Tue NOON
Regional Mexican – Tue NOON
Rhythmic – Tue 3PM
Smooth AC – Mon 1PM
Spanish Contemporary – Tue NOON
Top 40 – Tue 3PM
Triple A – Mon 2PM
Tropical Latin – Tue NOON
Urban – Tue 1PM
Urban AC – Tue 1PM

Thanks ladymadonna!

The next week it added six stations, so how could it only have 9 total adds by it’s third weeK?

I’m ageeing with you! 9 total adds(meaning HAC+Top 40) for the week. NOT total-as in for three weeks.

If I remember correctly from last week, we didn’t know totals for adds until much later in the day.

Considering the Nielsen releases the totals for all singles, why woudn’t they add the totals that were available from the week before to Adam’s full total for the week of the 2nd? That just doesn’t make any sense to me.

See, it doesn’t make sense to me that they would combine numbers for two weeks without at least disclosing that fact. No one really knows for sure what happened, so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Tiger92, you can shout all you want that those 3 days of sales were never counted (we heard you), but what is your source for knowing this? It would certainly be unprecedented

I think everyone is confused. Even Brian from Idol Chatter. I think what is confusing is that they put “new” and also didn’t note the previous week sales..which would have been that weekend it was for sale only on AO.

Adam Lambert’s For Your Entertainment debuted with more than 18,000 downloads in what I recall wasn’t quite a full week of availability.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/index

Can someone explain why the album should be streamed? Doesn’t that result in a loss of sales?

According to the add history of LLWD it had 9 adds on the week of September 28th, which was just one week after it was released. The next week it added six stations, so how could it only have 9 total adds by it’s third weeK?

Didn’t the poster actually say 9 total adds *during* the third week? — with “total” referring to “both in CHR and HAC,” not as in “total over time”?

ETA: Yes, -=- and I’m late on this! … However — the point is that I think the word “total” gets confusing in tracing the adds for songs these days, since most seem to be added in two formats simultaneously, which didn’t used to be the case so much, as I recall.

Total is very confusing describing adds. It’s really better to separate HAC and Top 40 adds because the spins will count on different charts. And total usually means all the adds up to that point.

ETA: Yes, -=- and I’m late on this! ‘ ¦ However ‘” the point is that I think the word ‘total’  gets confusing in tracing the adds for songs these days, since most seem to be added in two formats simultaneously, which didn’t used to be the case so much, as I recall.

Everything is confusing.

I think the whole thing- the spins, the adds, the multi-formatted charting hell was conceived by Charlie Epps on April Fool’s Day

Can someone explain why the album should be streamed? Doesn’t that result in a loss of sales?

A streaming album is only up for a certain period of time and the quality is not as good as the one available for purchase.(at least according to those on ontd_ai who purchased the French Amazon copy). This can be done for many reasons, but I would assume a major reason is to generate interest in an album so that if you heard something on a stream and liked it you would then want to purchase it.

zzatrms
11/16/2009 at 2:07 pm
Can someone explain why the album should be streamed? Doesn’t that result in a loss of sales?

I can’t imagine why anyone would want an album to be streamed. It doesn’t require terribly expensive software for a listener to record the stream through their PC. It might not be in the best quality bitrate, but certainly listenable enough to rip and post on a torrent site for illegal download. I’m not a fan of it at all.

IndyMuse
11/16/2009 at 10:03 am
Someone up thread was asking how a song can have a bullet but be dropping in rank. One of the expert charters can correct me if I’m wrong, but the bullet means the spins are increasing. If spins for other songs near it in rank are increasing faster, though, the song can still drop down in rank. Likewise, a song can lose spins, but if songs near it are losing spins at a faster rate, it can ‘fall up the chart’, so to speak.

Thanks, IndyMuse! That was my question. It makes sense now.

Pretty much everyone releasing an album tomorrow has streamed their entire album somewhere. Norah Jones did it on NPR and I think she’s doing it on the internet, right now you can hear John Mayer’s on AOL. Also Google Music is associated with Lala which allows you to stream an entire album once before making you buy.

If it was going to hurt sales labels wouldn’t do it.

SBC (12:03) and Kirsten (12:07), word to both of your referenced posts. And ladymadonna, you beat me to it. While there have been huge drops for years in album sales, this last year I did not think dropped as much. If you go back two or more years, however, the drops are more drastic and make comparisons to Daughtry or Kelly from that era inappropriate. Single sales are up, however.

anovich and rowenaaine …. thank you

I bought the deluxe cd … first AI album ever. I am happily waiting for it.

HDD Updates:
CHART DATE: 11/16/2009
LAST UPDATE: 11/16/2009 11:28:46
NOW IN: 36.20%
1/1 CARRIE UNDERWOOD 19/ARISTA NASHVILLE 61,804
– 32 DAUGHTRY 19/RCA/RMG 6,343 LEAVE THIS TOWN

Looks like Daughtry got a nice bump from his CMA performance. Got back into the Top 50. Good for him/them.

Pretty much everyone releasing an album tomorrow has streamed their entire album somewhere. Norah Jones did it on NPR and I think she’s doing it on the internet, right now you can hear John Mayer’s on AOL. Also Google Music is associated with Lala which allows you to stream an entire album once before making you buy.

If it was going to hurt sales labels wouldn’t do it.

I *guess.* That seems to be a reasonable conclusion to draw.

But I really wonder — Does anyone, even the music labels, actually really *know* what helps or hurts sales at this point?

We’re really really in a brave new world, and I kind of think that nobody actually knows and that, especially, nobody actually knows the true effect of the various online ploys and activities.

I mean, it’s certainly true in every other realm — such as publishing, for example — that companies truly don’t have a clue yet about what online activities ding sales or boost sales or whatever (partly because the range of online activities keeps shifting all the time), so I don’t really see why the music industry would know. (Plus, if they did know, their revenues wouldn’t be crashing, right?) ….

Anyway, something tells me that the streaming of albums, just like a lot of the other “marketing” things that are done these days, is more like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if it sticks than an actually proven strategy that helps your artists’ sales. ….

Would like to see some industry analysis of this, though. Has anybody read anything about it?

zzatrms – I’m happily waiting for mine too. A tad impatiently, might I add! *please be in my mailbox on Monday, please oh please*

Yeah, I don’t think the AOL stream will hurt Kris’s sales at all. The Fray, Carrie Underwood and the new Jason Mraz Live on Earth CDs were all on the AOL stream and their sales are doing just fine.

I think people who would download songs off streaming wouldn’t buy the song in any event. There will always be opportunities to illegally download a song, and if you’re inclined to do that, you will. Streaming songs won’t matter in the long run.

I’ve had long discussions with my 18 and 20 year old children about how, if you want to keep hearing someone, you will buy their music. I’m not saying they don’t d/l illegally on occasion, but the vast majority of the time, they purchase music. Not that it has any bearing in this instance because American Idol and anything mainstream just isn’t on their radars. For example, I mentioned Katy Perry and Lady GaGa to my 18 year old daughter this summer. She had no clue who they were. I mentioned “I Kissed a Girl” and then she knew who Katy was. I mentioned “Poker Face” and even sang it to her. I was answered with a blank stare.

Here are the reporting deadlines for adds in various formats (all times Pacific):

Thanks! And I don’t think streaming hurts an album at all, since it can’t be downloaded from AOL. In fact, if you hear it and like it, you’d be more likely to purchase it, right? I am unsure of Norah Jones’ album, but I like it alot.

Would like to see some industry analysis of this, though. Has anybody read anything about it?

I’m not an industry analyst, but here are a few thoughts.

1) People who are going to steal music are going to steal it anyway. Two minutes after the album goes for sale (and usually, it’s actually 1 week before), the rips will be available for download. There is no foiling them, so AOL streams of lower quality audio are not going to impact that market at all. So, just ignore the stealers.

2) The people you need to target are the people who might buy albums. For years, record labels put out CDs with two or three good songs (sometimes only 1) and the rest was filler. People got burned and bitter. Many swore off buying the entire album and would only buy (or steal) the tracks they knew. So, by streaming, you give people a chance to hear the songs in a controlled environment (and give people an alternative to listen for free without having to download a rip). The music industry has to provide avenues for people to do legally what they are going to do anyway. Bring them back into the fold. The industry hates iTunes (too much power not in their control and they’d rather sell albums), but iTunes found a way of satisfying people who wanted the convenience of MP3 players and only certain tracks. Without iTunes, people would be stealing in even greater numbers because there would be no legal alternative. Same with AOL streams. Give people a legal chance to just give it a listen in case they might want to buy it.

3) You might even attract some new customers. I downloaded some of Pink’s album after it started streaming after an album I was listening to finished. So, score a few sales for streaming.

4) Streaming counts toward the Hot 100. Get those streams!

With 2 1/2 hours to go and about 45% of the HAC stations in, LLWD has 2 adds and FYE has 0. Daughtry is #1 on that board so far.

Although TFM picked up 3 adds on AC.

I have a question about how LLWD is doing. It is getting a lot of spins in both Hot AC and Top 40 in New York. But it hasn’t gotten ANY radio play at all here in Los Angeles. Since that’s the 2nd largest market in the country, I have to wonder whether it is unusual to be in the Top 40 on Pop and just outside the Top 20 on HAC while being totally ignored by such a big market ‘” or whether this is fairly common.

Girlygirl, it looks like this question has already been somewhat answered, but from my knowledge of KIIS, the Top 40 in LA, it is a very rhythmic-heavy playlist. They likely wouldn’t jump on this song until it was towards the top of the chart already. Perfect example now: they’ve really only spun Kelly’s ‘Already Gone’ about four times this past week, and that song is at number 8 on the Top 40 chart!

Although TFM picked up 3 adds on AC.

Someone on the headline thread said it got 4 adds today. Which is it? Also, would many HAC stations play FYE? Is it in their genre?

Someone on the headline thread said it got 4 adds today. Which is it?

Both.

It got 3 AC Monitored Adds (stations that contribute to the Published AC charts) and 1 AC Activator Adds for a total of 4. So, it just depends on whether you exclusively count monitored stations or all stations. I think and add is an add (the goal is to get people to listen), but others are more insterested in how it contributes to chart performance (which can help you to get more adds).

Thanks Kirsten!

The last station here is the “activator add.”

KMGL-FM Pub 0 0 0 AC Oklahoma City Sony Renda Broadcasting Corporation 48 11/16/2009
KWAV-FM Pub 0 0 0 AC Monterey-Salinas Sony Buckley Broadcasting Corporation 82 11/16/2009
WLDB-FM Pub 0 0 0 AC Milwaukee Sony Milwaukee Radio Alliance LLC 37 11/13/2009
WOOF-FM Pub 2 0 0 AC Dothan, AL Sony WOOF, Inc 190 11/16/2009

Also, would many HAC stations play FYE? Is it in their genre?

Yes. As much as Britney and Lady Gaga are, which they play a lot of. It was #47 on the HAC chart last week, and #66 (I think) on the Top40.

jpfan, do we not count the autoadds? Just curious since that’s the only add so far that FYE has today.

* WSSX-FM Pub 13 Top 40 Charleston, SC RCA/RCAMG Citadel Communications Corp. 84 11/16/2009 9:54:00 AM

jpfan, do we not count the autoadds? Just curious since that’s the only add so far that FYE has today.

That’s a Top 40 add. HAC and AC go for adds today so that’s what people are talking about today. Pop goes for adds tomorrow. All the adds during the week up until the deadlines that ladymadonna posted will be counted for that week. So, they’ll be sifting through the pop adds tomorrow (although, people are also free to count daily adds if they prefer).

I’m not an industry analyst, but here are a few thoughts.

Aw, Kirsten, you’re close enough for government work!

I like your analysis, too! Makes a lot of sense.

Yes. As much as Britney and Lady Gaga are, which they play a lot of. It was #47 on the HAC chart last week, and #66 (I think) on the Top40.

So the question still is — Is FYE just not acceptable with a guy singing it, because that form of pop sex we only take from women?

I reject that there’s any real question of “oh, it’s not of good enough quality for them” and the like. When it comes to quality, there are great songs, medium songs, and crappy songs that make the top 40, in my opinion. I think they’re mainly looking for — Will the sound here and the artist and the overall nature of this song make our listeners stay tuned?

If radio is going for that desirable young guy demographic, I can see why they might not play FYE, like, ever. Not much for most young straight guys — who daydream about sex, what, every 27 seconds or so? — to fantasize with there, I would think. Whereas with Britney…well, there’s a lot. And with rap they can fantasize a more blatant form of sexual aggression, not that playful, theatrical, dancey-version of aggression, which isn’t all that mainstream in young men’s imaginations, I would think.

Oh, who the heck knows.

Kirsten
11/16/2009 at 4:48 pm
That’s a Top 40 add. HAC and AC go for adds today so that’s what people are talking about today. Pop goes for adds tomorrow. All the adds during the week up until the deadlines that ladymadonna posted will be counted for that week. So, they’ll be sifting through the pop adds tomorrow (although, people are also free to count daily adds if they prefer).

Thanks, Kirsten. I appreciate it. I didn’t pay close enough attention to the discussion. Too much to keep track of, I guess! Thank goodness for you guys.

jpfan, do we not count the autoadds? Just curious since that’s the only add so far that FYE has today.

So far, I think we have been saying an add is an add. At least that’s what people did for LLWD. It makes it easier that way!
4 adds so far-sounds good!

If radio is going for that desirable young guy demographic, I can see why they might not play FYE, like, ever.

Well, the target audience depends on the format, obviously. I would agree that it’s unlikely FYE will get any kind of play on a format like Active or Alternative Rock, though not simply because those formats target young men. But on CHR there really should be no problem with FYE, demographically or otherwise. Here’s the breakdown of the target demos for each format, according to Mediabase/RTM:

CHR – Women 12-34
Rhythmic – M/W 12-34
Urban M/W 18-34
Hot AC – Women 25-44
AC- Women 25-54
Active Rock – Men 18-34
Alternative – M/W 18-34
Country – M/W 25-54

So the question still is ‘” Is FYE just not acceptable with a guy singing it, because that form of pop sex we only take from women?

No. I don’t think that’s it. I think the issue is more that many of larger urban Top 40 stations with greater audience impressions are more about rhythmic/hip-hop and don’t play new artists of the Brittney/Lady Gaga elk until they’ve already hit the Top40. It’s up to the smaller stations combined with a few of the larger ones along with audience call-ins because they heard and liked it on their HAC station to get them playing it. Once they’ve embraced an artist, it won’t be as hard to get spins but the new music I’ve heard my Top40 station play does not fall in the FYE/Lady Gaga type thing.

Wow! I just turned on the radio in time to hear FYE being played on my local radio station (Hot AC)! I listened a lot last week hoping they had added it, but I never heard it played — except for an excerpt that was used to promote the AMAs (they were giving away FYE albums to those who called in at the right time and then those people were entered to win AMA tickets). So they must have added it just this week. AWESOME!!!

Ok, sorry for the outburst. We can now go back to our regularly scheduled programming…

Final Idol adds for the day. Christmas music is moving in, and Carrie’s getting some decent crossover action for Cowboy Cassanova. Let’s hope both FYE and LLWD do better on CHR tomorrow. Also, nada for Allison? Hmm. Are the waiting until after the holiday freeze?:

AC Combined Panel

4 ADAM LAMBERT Time For Miracles
4 DAUGHTRY No Surprise
4 KELLY CLARKSON Already Gone
3 KATHARINE MCPHEE Had It All
1 BROOKE WHITE Radio Radio
1 CARRIE UNDERWOOD The First Noel
1 ELLIOTT YAMIN This Christmas
1 JORDIN SPARKS Battlefield
1 JORDIN SPARKS S.O.S. (Let The Music Play)
1 KATHARINE MCPHEE I’ll Be Home For Christmas

HAC Combined Panel

19 DAUGHTRY Life After You
5 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Cowboy Casanova
3 JASON CASTRO Let’s Just Fall In Love Again
2 KRIS ALLEN Live Like We’re Dying
1 ADAM LAMBERT For Your Entertainment
1 CARRIE UNDERWOOD Do You Hear What I Hear

Is it me, or were there a lot less adds this week on HAC than last week (across the board)?

It’s getting chilly out there. Must be the Christmas freeze.

I see John Mayer’s starting to get adds for his second single.

Is it me, or were there a lot less adds this week on HAC than last week (across the board)?

It’s not you.

ETA: So I guess this means that as things fall down the charts they replace them with Christmas music instead of new songs?

Not just you, Kirsten. I was really surprised at only the 2 adds for LLWD, but across the board, adds were light. Daughtry was the only act to get in double-digits, even when you look at the Combined totals.

Wow. I haven’t been watching that long, but this is by far the most underwhelming add day for HAC that I remember. And, quite a few Christmas tunes made the list, and Donny Osmond (OMG!).

I also noticed Mayer’s apparently shuffling his first single to the side on this format at least.

I have not read all the comments today – but what do you think this means for FYE, Kirsten? Will they keep trying, wait till after Christmas, or try another single?

If today is any indication, it might be tough for any new songs to hit this format in a big way until after the holidays. Those that already have the traction will probably hope to hang on for dear life. Wonder what we’ll see tomorrow – meantime, good for Daughtry!

1 ADAM LAMBERT For Your Entertainment

Wow. And, um, wow. Somewhere in an undisclosed RCA conference room there is a whole lot of yelling going on and people are surreptitiously checking their golden parachute provisions on their smart phones.

ETA: So I guess this means that as things fall down the charts they replace them with Christmas music instead of new songs?

Yep. And we are about to start seeing a lot of bullets disappear. Spins will start dropping across the board pretty soon. Most Christmas songs are recurrent so you won’t see them on the charts, but they’ll be gobbling up the spins.

I have not read all the comments today ‘“ but what do you think this means for FYE, Kirsten? Will they keep trying, wait till after Christmas, or try another single?

It’s hard to say. Last year, we had a few songs going for adds in December and except for Brit (and she’s really in her own area code when it comes to getting instant airplay), that pretty much failed as I recall. I notice that this year is even thinner on the December adds. So, I think it’s really hard to push a song in December (which I was wrong about last year).

If the market responds well to FYE, they may continue to push it or they may chose to cut their losses and set up a new single for the Idol performances. It’s too soon to say. It all depends on how people respond to it and what the program managers feel about it.

Daughtry is fine. His single appears to have reached acceptance. It may stall a bit during Christmas (they all do), but it looks like it has some legs (it’s had two good add weeks). It should roar up the charts in January. And I’m no Daughtry fan.

Kirsten
11/16/2009 at 3:24 pm

Would like to see some industry analysis of this, though. Has anybody read anything about it?

I’m not an industry analyst, but here are a few thoughts.

1) People who are going to steal music are going to steal it anyway. Two minutes after the album goes for sale (and usually, it’s actually 1 week before), the rips will be available for download. There is no foiling them, so AOL streams of lower quality audio are not going to impact that market at all. So, just ignore the stealers.

2) The people you need to target are the people who might buy albums. For years, record labels put out CDs with two or three good songs (sometimes only 1) and the rest was filler. People got burned and bitter. Many swore off buying the entire album and would only buy (or steal) the tracks they knew. So, by streaming, you give people a chance to hear the songs in a controlled environment (and give people an alternative to listen for free without having to download a rip). The music industry has to provide avenues for people to do legally what they are going to do anyway. Bring them back into the fold. The industry hates iTunes (too much power not in their control and they’d rather sell albums), but iTunes found a way of satisfying people who wanted the convenience of MP3 players and only certain tracks. Without iTunes, people would be stealing in even greater numbers because there would be no legal alternative. Same with AOL streams. Give people a legal chance to just give it a listen in case they might want to buy it.

3) You might even attract some new customers. I downloaded some of Pink’s album after it started streaming after an album I was listening to finished. So, score a few sales for streaming.

4) Streaming counts toward the Hot 100. Get those streams!

STREAMING COUNTS for the HOT 100?!? Awesome then. Because I’ve been listening to Kris’s album on repeat since Monday morning LOLOLOL It’s nice to know my obsessive fangirling is giving Kris some dividends on the charts!

If today is any indication, it might be tough for any new songs to hit this format in a big way until after the holidays.

The good news is that while Christmas songs have been creeping into the top 100 on the HAC chart (4 so far that I recognize), I don’t see any on the Top 40 chart yet. So with luck tomorrow will be better.

I wasn’t sure where to post this, but found this tidbit on the Pulse Music Board..

“Wow, this was posted by RCA on Adam’s official forum:

Please only request Adam’s song from your LOCAL stations, and do try to stop short of harassment or the stations may go so far as to blacklist Adam’s music. This is a serious issue, gang, and we’ve had several complaints from stations already today, so please request responsibly! Having said that, we know you mean well and truly appreciate your support.

RCA Records

p.s. – And no, we don’t ‘share our strategy’ for working singles at radio, as this is between RCA, 19 and Adam. It’s no huge secret operation – it’s just a colossal amount of strategic detail that will bore you to tears, and is handled by professionals with DECADES of experience. If you must know: http://www.amazon.com/Need-Know-About-Music-Business/dp/0743293185. If Adam’s single had been delivered to us last month like KA’s was to JIVE instead of last week, it would be at radio already.”

Yeah, I think Daughtry’s fine, and I tend to think Kris with LLWD will also weather the Christmas doldrums. He’s not too far behind where Light On was last year at this time, and that ol’ boat anchor* managed decent growth through December and came back strong in January (it didn’t crack the Top 20 on CHR until February).

The jury is still out on FYE – I’m not sure yet whether it will have the momentum needed to survive the freeze and rebound after the holidays. Jason Castro is also in a dicey position. Atlantic is going to have to be working overtime to keep his single alive in order to set him up for that January 2010 album release.

* Hee. Sorry Kirsten, I just had to.

This is the 1 HAC add that came up for FYE today:

* KKSN-FM Pub 9 Hot AC Kansas City RCA/RCAMG Entercom 32 11/16/2009 3:04:00 PM

and the 2 HAC adds for LLWD:

KTYL-FM Pub 6 Hot AC Tyler, TX 19/Jive/JLG GAP Broadcasting LLC 144 11/16/2009 11:20:00 AM

* WCDV-FM Pub 11 Hot AC Baton Rouge 19/Jive/JLG Citadel Communications Corp. 78 11/16/2009 9:54:00 AM

Please only request Adam’s song from your LOCAL stations, and do try to stop short of harassment or the stations may go so far as to blacklist Adam’s music. This is a serious issue, gang, and we’ve had several complaints from stations already today, so please request responsibly!

OK whoa. I’ve never heard of a label actually posting something like that for the fans. Things must be majorly out of hand with the requests. Does nobody read their Idol history any more??

“If Adam’s single had been delivered to us last month like KA’s was to JIVE instead of last week, it would be at radio already.’ 

Wat? If this is legit, sounds like the finger-pointing has begun. That can’t be a good thing.

Not a great week for HAC when Jason Castro beats out Kris and Adam in adds. Daughtry had a good week though. TFM got 3. I only count monitored stations because their spins count on the Mediabase charts.
(Not that it’s wrong to count unmonitored stations. )

Adam’s fans should listen to RCA. They’d only post that warning if stations weren’t seriously complaining..

‘Wow, this was posted by RCA on Adam’s official forum:

Seriously? RCA posted that? Can any AO readers confirm? That PS is seventy-kinds of b!tchy. I believe that was posted by RCA when I see a link.

* Hee. Sorry Kirsten, I just had to

Hee! And we were getting along so well

I still think that there were much better songs on that album (that song just bugs me and didn’t respond all that well to the SNL performance). But bygones. Album 2 will be out soon.

Kirsten
11/16/2009 at 7:11 pm
‘Wow, this was posted by RCA on Adam’s official forum:

Seriously? RCA posted that? Can any AO readers confirm? That PS is seventy-kinds of b!tchy. I believe that was posted by RCA when I see a link.

I’m not seeing it on the home page or in the official news section. (I don’t think we’re supposed to link fansites here, but it’s easy to check if you goggle Adam Lambert).

I find it hard to believe RCA would post that. It sounds like a concerned fan trying to nip something in the bud by making it seem like the request is coming from RCA.

ETA: someone said it was posted by RCA in the forum at AO. So I kind of doubt it’s really RCA.

I’ve never heard of a label actually posting something like that for the fans.

I seem to recall that Taylor had to call off the fans with a similar post (without the PS). I think it was on Gray Charles (which by that time was under contract from Arista to serve as an official promo site. There was also an official fansite with paid membership).

I think you’re right Kirsten. I think I do remember that. Well, we know how that turned out, LOL.

I don’t understand all the talk about adds, but I know that our local Northern Illinois Station WXLC (Lake County, IL) has played FYE three or four times today. IN FACT THEY ARE PLAYING IT RIGHT NOW. I didn’t hear the intro. I have never heard them play it before. I heard LLYWD once before today and my son heard it once. Today I checked their playlist on-line and saw that they played it two or three times. So I think those songs are starting to be played on rotation.

I find it hard to believe RCA would post that. It sounds like a concerned fan trying to nip something in the bud by making it seem like the request is coming from RCA.

there is no way in h-ll that RCA’s counsel would allow them to post something like that on a fan site. I guarantee this is a fake.

They called it a web extra

I won’t believe that RCA P.S. until I see a link. They’d never post something like that on a forum.

Oh, yeah, I think you’re right about Taylor, Kirsten. I think it did come from him “directly” too now that you mention it. If that message is from one of the RCA webnerds making a random post on some thread at AO, it’s not gong to make an impact. Maybe it is just a concerned fan. Still, can things get any weirder out of Adam’s camp? Yikes.

jersey
ETA: someone said it was posted by RCA in the forum at AO. So I kind of doubt it’s really RCA.
There is a fan created thread in the forum with an OP claiming to quote a RCA moderator, but no actual post from a mod. Looks like a dose of salt might be in order in regard to this being any sort of official communication. The advise is good though!

No. I don’t think that’s it. I think the issue is more that many of larger urban Top 40 stations with greater audience impressions are more about rhythmic/hip-hop and don’t play new artists of the Brittney/Lady Gaga elk until they’ve already hit the Top40. It’s up to the smaller stations combined with a few of the larger ones along with audience call-ins because they heard and liked it on their HAC station to get them playing it. Once they’ve embraced an artist, it won’t be as hard to get spins but the new music I’ve heard my Top40 station play does not fall in the FYE/Lady Gaga type thing.

Yeah, I think that’s it, too. I am just into over-analysis mode today, I guess.

Honestly, this is the way the songs almost always climb. Small stations pick them up first, and if enough of them do, then they start to get some big stations, and then they take off. As you mention, the big stations are much more conservative about not playing something unless they already *know* that it’s a hit …. Kills me that being large — which you somehow thinks would make you brave — actually makes them the biggest weenies, afraid to try anything that somebody else hasn’t already proven works. But I guess that’s what having a lot of money gives you — the fear of having lots of money to lose.

Of course, if the small stations don’t end up picking it up, I’ll have to go back to overanalyzing ….
But maybe I can put that off until after Christmas, because from here on in part of the problem for all the songs is definitely going to be those Christmas songs, on HAC particularly.

Maybe this has already been mentioned? On Adam’s official site you can buy WWFM for $1.29 and it reads “Download Adam’s NEW SINGLE Whataya Want from Me”!

On the mediabase song analysis, it seems that although FYE hasn’t been added by a lot of stations, a larger percentage of the ones that have added it are actually playing it. There are a lot of check marks under “played today” Baby steps?

Not being an overly-invested fan of any of the AI8 contestants, I am finding this album roll out of the new idols fascinating in a train wreck kind of way. Kris seems to be getting a “normal” introduction, Allison (my fave) is getting no promotion that I can see and I’m getting the sense that 19/RCA has completely f##ked up with Adam.

All in all, I think DC had good promotion and a successful debut album cycle–though like many fans, I can’t help thinking what might have happened with better selection of singles. Cook is still overall in a pretty good position career wise, despite all the early anxiety. It will be very interesting to see what happens to this crop of Idols.

there is no way in h-ll that RCA’s counsel would allow them to post something like that on a fan site. I guarantee this is a fake.

Who cares where it came from? It’s good advice. Only call locally. If you really care more about the artist, instead of “winning” you will help him more that way.

They’re discussing the RCA posting about song requests/spamming on the headline thread too. Here is the link that was posted.

http://www.adamofficial.com/ca/node/938506

ETA: someone said it was posted by RCA in the forum at AO. So I kind of doubt it’s really RCA.

Oops.. I posted this too quickly.. I couldn’t find it anywhere checking on adamofficial, so not sure which official forum the poster got it from.. I emailed the adamofficial moderator to verify this, and will let you know if I hear back.

“They’re discussing the RCA posting about song requests/spamming on the headline thread too. Here is the link that was posted.

http://www.adamofficial.com/ca/node/938506”

Okay confused now…

The profile says a fan with 8 posts.

That is a real moderator, so yeah, it’s RCA. Unless the account was hacked.

I think the PS surprises me more than the first part (although, really?! after 8 years you still don’t know better?)
I do remember a mod on Daughtry’s site also pointing the finger to 19 when they released No Surprise, but in this case I don’t even understand what they’re talking about. lol why didn’t they have the single when they wanted? Which apparently would have been a month ago?
Anyway, it just doesn’t sound good. The guy sounds upset. lol

So, there was so much to comment on, and then that post from AO.com came up.

Actually, here’s what’s interesting about the rmged profile: its creation date? 5/14/2009—which was before AO.com officially came on line. That’s an official profile—all of the DCO profiles that are that early are official. I firmly believe that an RCA moderator put up that post. Whether TPTB at RCA would be happy about everything in that post? Is another question. I can’t imagine that the suits want that postscript out there, accurate as it may be.

When I was looking for that RCA post, I also noted that the front page refers to the WWFM as his new single. Looks like the hypothesizing earlier in the thread may be right? I guess we’ll see.

It’s from the same moderator who had to lecture some of the posters about the nastiness that was going on in the Kradam forum on the AO site. It’s an official moderator…