Lee DeWyze Responds to His Split with RCA

I have not been with RCA for a good few months

I figured. If this news hadn’t been revealed by the THR interview, when would Lee have let his fans know?

I wonder if he will go back to Wuli. They seem to love him.

Every season someone signed to a major label eventually gets dropped. Lee Dewyze is the first from Season 9, but I don’t think he will be the last. And it will happen with Season 10.

when would Lee have let his fans know?

I don’t recall many an Idolette being vocal about downturns or changes in their professional lives. We rarely hear about these things unless the other entities make it public in some manner.

If this news hadn’t been revealed by the THR interview, when would Lee have let his fans know?

That’s a very good question. I think we all knew this news took a lot longer to get out than was anticipated. I figured when the thread came up the other day about Lee going to Nashville that he had already been dropped and I got the sense the news was coming any day now.

It indeed won’t be an easy road for Lee but I wish him the best of luck.

The timing is strange. Wonder why RCA chose to address Lee’s status at this time. A person with a conspiracy theory might think that it is to steal some of the thunder from Scotty’s first week sales. Universal has clearly been more successful with its Idol winner than RCA’s work with Lee. Maybe publicizing Lee’s release at this time put’s the attention on Lee’s “failure” rather than RCA’s.

Among the winners and runners-up who have been dropped, they are surviving for a couple of reasons. Either they came from such an incredibly popular season that they are able to survive on the outskirts of the music business via continuing name recogntion (Ruben, Clay, Taylor, Bo) or they have proven themselves multi-talented and diversified into other areas (Diana and Katharine as actresses, Justin as a tv host). Lee doesn’t appear to have either of those advantages because season 9 was incredibly unpopular and I doubt he’s hiding the heart of a thespian (or the ability to stay on pitch in a musical theatre production of anything).

I don’t think he’ll ever need to apply for food stamps or anything but if he can’t tour constantly to decent sized club crowds he’s going to find that avenue drying up over the next few years. In other words, he’ll be ok but I hope he’s saved his money and has a plan for bringing in non-music income in the years ahead.

Its always going to be a tough road without a label behind you and you have to work twice as hard. RCA may have been crappy to Lee but a major label funding an album is never a bad thing. And they let him write the whole thing except one song so, eh. Its like the Clay fans who thought Clay ditching RCA was the best thing, then losing another label was the best thing. Its HARD. And I would imagine Lee, who got one bad break after another since his win had to feel stung getting dropped.

If the timing was to try and take attention off Scotty’ sales, not smart IMO. It will likely do the opposite since the contrast is so stark.

Tess says:
10/07/2011 at 2:06 pm
when would Lee have let his fans know?

I don’t recall many an Idolette being vocal about downturns or changes in their professional lives. We rarely hear about these things unless the other entities make it public in some manner.

Actually, after David Archuleta chose to leave Jive, the manager he just fired immediately tweeted that he had been released and Shirley Halperin happily picked this up without comment from Archuleta or without any concern about the propriety of a former manager releasing this information before Archuleta or the label did.

Unfortunately, this does say something about the media’s/public’s general lack of interest in Lee if it took all this time for the news to get out. It does make sense now that he actually was released some time ago considering that RCA has dropped Idols who were more successul than him.

What happened to the millions of voters that selected him? Why didn’t they buy the record? Because there were no “millions” of voters.
Votes need to be limited per device. Period.

“If the timing was to try and take attention off Scotty’ sales, not smart IMO. It will likely do the opposite since the contrast is so stark.”

“Unfortunately, this does say something about the media’s/public’s general lack of interest in Lee if it took all this time for the news to get out. It does make sense now that he actually was released some time ago considering that RCA has dropped Idols who were more successul than him.”

Maybe the media has had the green light to talk about in the week when an idol from AI show(here S10 winner) has a new album on the market and presumably with a good number for first week sale: bashing one, praising the other, more news about AI! For the artists sake(hope for Scotty)?! I don’t think so but for the show’s franchise!

Why on earth would this be national news? Again, I love Lee and his style of music and am disappointed that he got dropped. But none of us know what really happened behind the scenes. Maybe he left them…..do we really know? If any of you do please fill the rest of us in. Maybe Lee knew the news was going to come out this way and chose to leave it alone. I hope he is able to get picked up by someone who knows how to get his music heard and helps make him get better known as an artist. As it is now he does have fans, worldwide, who love him and will support him.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Lee already knew about his impending “firing” by RCA at the time of the AI10 finale in late May, even if it hadn’t happened yet. He seemed unusually glum about that time.

What happened to the millions of voters that selected him? Why didn’t they buy the record? Because there were no “millions” of voters.

Idol only ever comments about the number of votes, not the number of voters.

Votes need to be limited per device. Period.

I agree, but that’s only if Idol cares more about credible voting results vs. income from AT&T. Also, since the voters originate from a demographic that has little overlap with fans/buyers of CHR music, even if the vote results were more representative of true popularity, they may not result in a winner with a good chance of being a “pop star”.

But none of us know what really happened behind the scenes. Maybe he left them…..do we really know?

He would have no choice to leave if RCA still wanted him. They held his contract & would have picked up his option. They could have done a “Hanson” on him.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Lee already knew about his impending “firing” by RCA at the time of the AI10 finale in late May, even if it hadn’t happened yet. He seemed unusually glum about that time.

I agree. That would fit with Lee having known for “a good few months”.

But none of us know what really happened behind the scenes. Maybe he left them…..do we really know?

Lee was under contract. The only way that he would have been able to leave is if RCA agreed to release him.

when would Lee have let his fans know?

I don’t recall many an Idolette being vocal about downturns or changes in their professional lives.

We don’t hear these things from artists who aren’t from idol. It’s not something that people would call a press conference to announce, and for the most part, the average person wouldn’t care or know about these changes. Most people don’t know who releases their favorite artist’s music.

A person with a conspiracy theory might think that it is to steal some of the thunder from Scotty’s first week sales. Universal has clearly been more successful with its Idol winner than RCA’s work with Lee.

That seems a bit out there. Lee’s split from RCA is barely getting news attention, and all of it’s within the Idol bubble. I’m not sure why RCA would want to flaunt their failings around the time when then new Idol is coming in so successfully with another company. Surely not for the show they’re no longer working with? Tbh, I just don’t think anything could take away from Scotty doing so well especially news about an Idol the general public cares very little about.

We don’t hear these things from artists who aren’t from idol. It’s not something that people would call a press conference to announce, and for the most part, the average person wouldn’t care or know about these changes. Most people don’t know who releases their favorite artist’s music.

True, but in Lee’s case, his tweeting about preparing another album prompted inquiries from fans about the status of his contract with RCA, and he wasn’t responding to those questions. If he’s known for so many months, why not respond?

Lee’s option with RCA was up in September. I think that’s why nothing official came out until now, although there had been hints of this move for several months

What happened to the millions of voters that selected him? Why didn’t they buy the record? Because there were no “millions” of voters.

They went to the same place the millions of people that voted for Kris or the millions of people who voted for Adam or even the millions of people who voted for Carrie or Chris etc. went. Not everyone who votes in turn buys the CD. It happens to every Idol. It’s not a special case for Lee and it’ll happen to Scotty, Lauren, and the rest of the Idols who release CDs.

Good luck Lee. He seems like a nice guy, so I hope he does well in the future.

What a bunch of crock, The planning of dropping idols started right after idol and before Xfactor. they both have same fans, and voters.
Its like you scratch my back I will scratch yours. There was never a promotion for Lees album or Cooks, as there wont be for Kris.In my book idols dont need idol or xfactor to make a living. Lee should count his lucky stars to be away from idol and Sony.Lee will still make the music.

I’m super curious about Jive and Crystal. Love her, but sure she’s dropped as well.

I think Lee is putting the best face on it, however there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it sucks to be dropped. Still – he’s an indie by nature. An indie label is the best fit.

Lee got just as much promotion as the others including a video and a single, and he also co-wrote all except for one of the songs, so I don’t understand how a new label will be any different. They’re songs that he’s writing — just like his album with RCA.

I’m sure this will have no bearing whatsoever on Scotty, because Scotty is in a completely different genre. Plus, people that buy country music probably say “Who is Lee DeWyze?”

I have to disagree with you on that, KatieLynn, Lee nor Crystal got the same promo as previous idols/runnerups. RCA was on their way out the door with idol. They did very little to promote Lee’s album, Crystal either. Crystal had Gina Orr helping her but without Gina no one would have known she had an album out.

In the back of my mind, I wonder if the news of the dropping was leaked by Nigel in the wake of x factor and Scotty’s good predicted numbers- to show people that Simon doesn’t know what is relevant(he championed Lee) and someone who Simon would have sabatoged(Scotty) is doing well.

Lee got just as much promotion as the others including a video and a single, and he also co-wrote all except for one of the songs, so I don’t understand how a new label will be any different. They’re songs that he’s writing — just like his album with RCA.

I disagree with you, but the most important thing is that the people who work at labels always think that they can do things better than the people who work at other labels. Peter Edge admitted that not all of the idol alums have been given good A&R. Not all of them have been developed as artists, or even allowed to show who they are musically. He recognizes that, so there’s a chance that people at other labels will too.

With Lee, I’d listen to his pre idol music, and wonder why he released a song that doesn’t represent the folk/rock sound that he likes, and that he’s good at. I’d also wonder why he released a song that masked his voice, instead of taking advantage of the gravely quality that is his bread and butter. I’d also have to ask why the label and his management didn’t do anything to clear up his image after the AI season, and distance him from the talk of it being one of the worst seasons ever.

There was never a promotion for Lees album or Cooks, as there wont be for Kris.

I guess you haven’t been reading the interviews RCA leadership have been giving. It’s a whole new RCA from what Lee & David had. Kris, Adam and any other RCA artist releasing cds soon will benefit from the renewed focus & the need to show immediate positive results. This very well may be why RCA sent Leona Lewis back into the studio.

katielynne-

Longtime posters in the numbers thread spent last fall pointing out all the things RCA wasn’t doing for Lee that they had done for previous Idols. RCA had Lee on the budget plan from the beginning. They no longer had the Idol contract by that point. His single made it up to 23 on HAC without help from the big market stations-when it started to slip, he didn’t get another single for months and when it did, he got no promo,video, video or add date for it.
I’d be surprised if he’s going back to Wuli-if he were releasing his next album through them, I doubt they would be selling gorgeous songs like Never There, one at a time. Time will tell, I guess. Lee seems very happy now.

Crystal is still shown on the Jive home page though that may not mean much. It’s kind of funny–there is no one else on that list remotely having her style of music (Wierd Al is another odd one on the list lol). Both she and Lee are folky singer songwriter types. Are there any major labels that go for that style anymore for new artists?

With Lee, I’d listen to his pre idol music, and wonder why he released a song that doesn’t represent the folk/rock sound that he likes, and that he’s good at. I’d also wonder why he released a song that masked his voice, instead of taking advantage of the gravely quality that is his bread and butter.

This.

I hope Lee finds his way back to what he’s good at – angsty, soul-filled folk tunes. The stuff on the AI CD, on the whole, did not match this style. I think there was a disconnect between how he presented himself on the show – an emotional guy with a growly voice – and what he put on the record. And then the “new” Lee didn’t connect with a broader audience because… well, his new music wasn’t really him.

With Lee, I’d listen to his pre idol music, and wonder why he released a song that doesn’t represent the folk/rock sound that he likes, and that he’s good at. I’d also wonder why he released a song that masked his voice, instead of taking advantage of the gravely quality that is his bread and butter. I’d also have to ask why the label and his management didn’t do anything to clear up his image after the AI season, and distance him from the talk of it being one of the worst seasons ever.

I’m not an expert and I’m really curious, but isn’t this what the A&R department does? Don’t they pick and choose the songs and guide the development of the CD? So then this would tie in to what Peter Edge said. Lee’s CD failed for alot of reasons, but part of it certainly had to do with the lack of attention paid to developing him in a manner that suited him best. The minute SS was released, he was doomed, IMO. Maybe even before that.

eta: Was the Peter Edge quote about A&R directly tied to the article about Lee being dropped? Because he curiously says “or were unwilling to be A&R” and my nosy mind wants to know who he’s talking about. :)

I’m not sure why RCA would want to flaunt their failings around the time when then new Idol is coming in so successfully with another company. Surely not for the show they’re no longer working with? Tbh, I just don’t think anything could take away from Scotty doing so well especially news about an Idol the general public cares very little about.

I don’t think RCA is flaunting Lee’s “failure” to somehow distract from Scotty’s success. I think it’s a coincidence that the news broke this week.

Scotty’s sales, compared to the last two idol winners look phenomenal but for some perspective here are the top 11 opening week sales for idol debuts *I personally wouldn’t count JHud because she was so far removed from Idol and had already won an Oscar before her debut album*

1. Clay – “Measure of a Man”(Oct 14, 2003) – 612,859 (# 1)
2. Winner Ruben – “Soulful” (Dec 9, 2003) – 416,569 (# 1)
3. Winner Carrie – “Some Hearts” (November 15, 2005) – 314,549 (# 2)
4. Chris – “Daughtry” (November 21, 2006) – 303,677 (# 2)
5. Winner Taylor – “Taylor Hicks” (Dec 12, 2006) – 298,199 (# 2)
6. Winner Kelly – “Thankful” (April 15, 2003) – 297,000 (# 1)
7. Winner David Cook, David Cook, 279,000
8. Winner Fantasia – “Free Yourself” (November 23, 2004) – 239,389 (#8)
9. Bo – “The Real Thing” (December 13, 2005) – 226,976 (# 4)
10. Jennifer Hudson, “Jennifer Hudson,” 217,000
11. Adam Lambert, “For Your Entertainment,” 198,466

*Jordin sold 119K opening week*

Looking at the other previous winners, he’ll be at least 50-60K below the lowest ranking winner, which is Fantasia and he if the numbers hold even at the high end at 190K he won’t have outsold five others who didn’t win at all.

i have no doubt Lee will be fine. Love his song “Brooklyn Bridge”. Lee may not be at the top of the musical heap, but he can definitely make a living doing something he loves. From Idol and the people he has worked with he now has contacts to aid him in reaching his dream. Best wishes for Lee.

I’m not an expert and I’m really curious, but isn’t this what the A&R department does? Don’t they pick and choose the songs and guide the development of the CD? So then this would tie in to what Peter Edge said. Lee’s CD failed for alot of reasons, but part of it certainly had to do with the lack of attention paid to developing him in a manner that suited him best. The minute SS was released, he was doomed, IMO. Maybe even before that.

Well yes, basically that’s what A&R does. With AI alumni, the label and it’s A&R department have no say in who they sign. However, once they sign a contestant, they always try to push them in the most commercial direction possible for that contestant. I mean, there obviously was no way to repackage Lee as the next Justin Timberlake, but they did try to turn him into soft rock, pop-rock (suited for HAC radio format) because they obviously thought his pre-idol direction wasn’t the optimal direction.

So they did try to develop him. But there was no point really, I think his major label career was D.O.A. from the beginning.

There is no Jive anymore so I doubt still being on there means much. Once the RCA page updates with all the changes the Jive page will probably disappear.

David got decent promotion, problem is he was promoting a lousy song people didn’t like.

There is no Jive anymore so I doubt still being on there means much. Once the RCA page updates with all the changes the Jive page will probably disappear.

David got decent promotion, problem is he was promoting a lousy song people didn’t like.

ETA: the point with Scotty’s numbers is that he managed to not keep selling lower than the previous 2 winners. David did it too and the ironic thing is back then some still complained about his numbers because he didn’t sell Daughtry level numbers.

I have to disagree with you on that, KatieLynn, Lee nor Crystal got the same promo as previous idols/runnerups. RCA was on their way out the door with idol. They did very little to promote Lee’s album, Crystal either. Crystal had Gina Orr helping her but without Gina no one would have known she had an album out

Whatever happened to all the people that voted for them on American Idol? For any promotion to be effective, you have to start out with a good product. I did not see that with Lee. He’s just an ok performer along with lots and lots of other ok performers out there. If it was any other season, he would have not won – or even finish in the higher tier.

The voting is screwy on all of these shows, but especially idol. Cute, humble guy that can sing? Likely the winner. Female who is too sexy or pretty? Probably going home, jealousy, no empathy for little miss size 2 with a 34D. Really talented, probably going home, people will call them a ringer or forget to vote because they send all the votes to: the worst to make the show funny, the married guy, the underdog, the christian, its too easy to manipulate. No surprise Lee was likeable enough to get votes, but not for buying his music. 168K albums vs. Millions of votes.

The minute SS was released, he was doomed, IMO. Maybe even before that.

I think he was doomed before he even won AI, because the judges didn’t give him feedback like they should have. We all know how the cougars vote for their favorite which the majority of Lee’s fans are/were, and they only bought so many of his CD’s and not the tweens/teens that are the ones that purchase music.

Misinformation becoming fact is alive and well in Idol land. Clay Aiken fulfilled his contract with RCA. Wouldn’t you think that 4 albums and an EP would do that. From what Clay said, he and RCA parted amicably when the terms of his contract were up and he then signed with Universal for an album by album deal. Again, he was not dropped.

Also, Ruben was not dropped by RCA. I watched a video of an interview where he was asked about it. He said folks love to talk and make up stuff. He said he was not dropped by RCA but was moved to another division under RCA.

The only reason that Lee was dropped was they wanted a pop star.I still hear that on Xfactor. Idol will do the same if they dont go country again. People should be voting who they like, not what is pushed on them.

The only reason that Lee was dropped was they wanted a pop star.I still hear that on Xfactor. Idol will do the same if they dont go country again. People should be voting who they like, not what is pushed on them.

People are voting for what they like though. Otherwise the supposed favorite of the judges/producers would always win. I doubt they care about the genre as long as they sell well and make money, which Lee just didn’t do.

No he was dropped because he didn’t make RCA money. The label wouldn’t have cared if Lee farted out his album as long as he sold something. Ray Lamontagne isn’t a pop star yet, nor is he a platinum seller, but he has a devoted fanbase that consistently buys his music.

With Lee, I’d listen to his pre idol music, and wonder why he released a song that doesn’t represent the folk/rock sound that he likes, and that he’s good at. I’d also wonder why he released a song that masked his voice, instead of taking advantage of the gravely quality that is his bread and butter.

I didn’t listen to Lee’s album. I assume that the songs that he cowrote were more representative of his folk/rock style than the singles that were released (that weren’t cowrites or were they?)?

I’d also have to ask why the label and his management didn’t do anything to clear up his image after the AI season, and distance him from the talk of it being one of the worst seasons ever.

Sorry, but what needed to be “cleared up” about Lee’s image? Since he won S9, it would have been pretty much impossible to distance himself from the critics.

RCA, back to when it when it controlled by Clive, doesn’t have a good record of developing artists or promoting them properly.

I like looking at the list above:
“Scotty’s sales, compared to the last two idol winners look phenomenal but for some perspective here are the top 11 opening week sales for idol debuts *I personally wouldn’t count JHud because she was so far removed from Idol and had already won an Oscar before her debut album*

1. Clay – “Measure of a Man”(Oct 14, 2003) – 612,859 (# 1)
2. Winner Ruben – “Soulful” (Dec 9, 2003) – 416,569 (# 1)
3. Winner Carrie – “Some Hearts” (November 15, 2005) – 314,549 (# 2)
4. Chris – “Daughtry” (November 21, 2006) – 303,677 (# 2)
5. Winner Taylor – “Taylor Hicks” (Dec 12, 2006) – 298,199 (# 2)
6. Winner Kelly – “Thankful” (April 15, 2003) – 297,000 (# 1)
7. Winner David Cook, David Cook, 279,000
8. Winner Fantasia – “Free Yourself” (November 23, 2004) – 239,389 (#8)
9. Bo – “The Real Thing” (December 13, 2005) – 226,976 (# 4)
10. Jennifer Hudson, “Jennifer Hudson,” 217,000
11. Adam Lambert, “For Your Entertainment,” 198,466

But I would rather take it to #12 which is
12. David Archuleta “David Archuleta”Nov.11, 2008 182,927 #2

That way I can really compare the winners and runners-up who had significant sales.

Lee’s CD failed for alot of reasons, but part of it certainly had to do with the lack of attention paid to developing him in a manner that suited him best.

I would have to say this was a big contributing factor. Another would be, in their eagerness to

turn him into soft rock, pop-rock (suited for HAC radio format) because they obviously thought his pre-idol direction wasn’t the optimal direction.

, his label people broke one of the cardinal rules – don’t present yourself one way on the show – and then put out music that doesn’t have any relation to what people saw and voted for.

It’s true that the audience who votes and the audience who buy only intersect slightly – but doing that alienates that percentage of people who are apt to do both. If the artist doesn’t even have a large fan following to start with, to overcome that disconnect – it can be the fatal flaw.

I don’t know anyone who thought “Sweet Serendipity” had any relation to Lee on Idol, or even Lee pre-Idol. And if one wishes to lay that at the door of label disinterest in doing any extra work – it will be right beside the music that was given to Taylor or to Bo – which also had nothing to do with them as artists. There are likely more, if one wishes to look. Even Melinda Dolittle’s first album suffered in comparison to her Idol run.

I think RCA tried to push Lee in a Hot AC direction because they know how difficult it is to get AAA and Alt Rock radio stations to play music from ex-Idols. Look at what happened with Crystal — Jive let her make the album she wanted and they sent her single to AAA (although I personally think they chose the wrong song to try and sell her to that format). She got pretty much zero radio play and now it appears that she and her manager have decided to try and represent her as a country artist. She did sell a decent amount of albums for someone who got no radio play and didn’t really even do an actual tour (rather a bunch of one offs), but they haven’t yet found a way to really make her “commercial” (however you want to define that).

The same thing happened with Lee. His pre-Idol music is probably closest in style to what you would hear on AAA radio. It’s not pop at all. They tried, at least to some extent, to push Sweet Serendipity , to CHR, but when it failed to catch on, that was pretty much it in terms of the label really trying to promote him.
I don’t know if they would have had any big success if they had let Lee put out an album that was closer in style to his 2 pre-Idol ones and tried to push him to the AAA market, but I have to wonder what would have happened if they had at least tried.

It’s all water under the bridge now, of course. Lee can now move on, and will likely have a lot more freedom with his music, no matter how his future career shakes out in terms of commercial success.

I don’t know anyone who thought “Sweet Serendipity” had any relation to Lee on Idol, or even Lee pre-Idol.

But according to ASCAP, Lee cowrote this song, so I think that he has to bear some responsibility if the song was not representative of him.

Yes, Lee cowrote Sweet Serendipity and his acoustic version sounds exactly like him, a little angsty and bittersweet, not at all like the upbeat pop version on the album. These days he usually does a mashup of SS/Fast Car:

http://www.youtube/watch?v=1dpwLr3kmTE

But according to ASCAP, Lee cowrote this song,

Along with how many other songs, that didn’t make the album – no doubt he had input, although the production on the track wasn’t his style, but someone from the Label picked it for the album, where it could have resided in relative obscurity as a filler, but then they switched out the first single at the very last minute…for that.

And that would be an example of bad A&R – because the first part of that quote applies here:

The TV platform provides amazing coverage, but if you don’t have the right songs, it doesn’t really mean a hell of a lot. Those where the A&R wasn’t the best, or they weren’t willing to be A&R’d, they didn’t last.

I am not a fan of Lee’s in any way, but even I was WTF? with that choice.

Like I said yesterday, when a CD fails to sell, it is always the artist’s fault. When a CD does sell, it is always because of the label’s great A&R. I wish a label exec would admit, for once, that he screwed up – that maybe the first single was poorly chosen or the promotion plan flawed. I’m not holding my breath. Much too easy to blame the artist.

Like I said yesterday, when a CD fails to sell, it is always the artist’s fault. When a CD does sell, it is always because of the label’s great A&R. I wish a label exec would admit, for once, that he screwed up – that maybe the first single was poorly chosen or the promotion plan flawed. I’m not holding my breath. Much too easy to blame the artist.

This is very true. And it’s my opinion that there are a lot of people working for the major labels who don’t have a clue. They seem resistant to change and remain complacent after many years of falling back on manufactured music. Yes, there are still people who are buying that crap but I believe there are just as many, if not more, who are hungry for real music by real artists. All one needs to do is look to who had the stand-out albums this year like Adele, Mumford & Sons and Florence + The Machine, just to name a few.

I think RCA tried to push Lee in a Hot AC direction because they know how difficult it is to get AAA and Alt Rock radio stations to play music from ex-Idols. Look at what happened with Crystal — Jive let her make the album she wanted and they sent her single to AAA (although I personally think they chose the wrong song to try and sell her to that format). She got pretty much zero radio play and now it appears that she and her manager have decided to try and represent her as a country artist.

Good point, but I wouldn’t use Crystal as an example. Jive released FD, because that’s what Crystal wanted, and they already had evidence that she wasn’t going to support any other choice. Plus, I don’t know how much effort Jive put into promoting her.

Back to Lee, in this instance he has the same problem as David Cook, but I don’t think the solution is to digitally alter his voice on a recording, and let him release a song that doesn’t showcase what he does best. That angst/gravely quality to his voice is what makes Lee Lee. He has a great recording voice, so why change it. He doesn’t do light and poppy, so a good A&R person should have tried to find a HAC song that would allow him to showcase those qualities.

I know that Lee is one of the song’s co-writers, but I’m pretty sure that his A&R person steered him in this direction, and like David Cook with “The Last Goodbye”, told him that he would need a song like SS for his debut. More than likely, given how similar they are, the rep. probably told him that he needed a lead single that sounded like LLWD.

Along with how many other songs, that didn’t make the album – no doubt he had input, although the production on the track wasn’t his style, but someone from the Label picked it for the album, where it could have resided in relative obscurity as a filler, but then they switched out the first single at the very last minute…for that.

Oh right, now I remember. I also remember that the press release for Lee’s album emphasized the he cowrote a lot of the songs on the album.

AmericanIdol exclusively revealed the title of season nine winner Lee DeWyze’s upcoming album is called Live It Up. “Putting out an album on a major label is truly a dream come true,” 24-year-old DeWyze said in a press release. “I’m excited for all the people who supported me throughout Idol to hear what I can do with my own songs. The album shows a whole different side of me and I’m so proud of it.”

DeWyze worked with such record producers as Toby Gad (Alicia Keys, Kris Allen) and John Shanks (Bon Jovi, Melissa Etheridge) while recording the album during the American Idol Live tour this past summer. He also co-wrote many of the songs on Live It Up.

“To see my name listed in the credits on each song was really important to me because I’m a songwriter.” DeWyze said. “I also loved working with such talented writers. They all brought so much to the table and really helped me flesh out my sound.”DeWyze’s first single, “Live It Up” will debut Wenesday, Oct 13 on The Ryan Seacrest Show on KIIS FM. The album Live It Up will be released Tuesday, November 16.

Like I said yesterday, when a CD fails to sell, it is always the artist’s fault. When a CD does sell, it is always because of the label’s great A&R. I wish a label exec would admit, for once, that he screwed up – that maybe the first single was poorly chosen or the promotion plan flawed. I’m not holding my breath. Much too easy to blame the artist.

Actually, I don’t think that’s true to the general public, who have no idea what “A&R” is (I had no idea what that was until it was brought up in articles). The credit usually goes to the artist for a hit song/album, especially if they cowrote the song(s). At the same time, if the music isn’t good, it’s sometimes on the artist, or the production.

nvm

Along with how many other songs, that didn’t make the album – no doubt he had input, although the production on the track wasn’t his style, but someone from the Label picked it for the album, where it could have resided in relative obscurity as a filler, but then they switched out the first single at the very last minute…for that.

It’s not that Lee had songs that would be better singles on the album.

Look, it’s simple. Idol and all these reality singing shows are designed to promote a certain number of young people to general public and then sign the most popular ones and try to turn them into popular recording artists. The label has no choice but to sign the winner (and I guess the runner up) and then they try to do their best with what they are given. The ideal for a major label would be if Idol churned out two or three 16-22 year olds that the label could easily repackage into popstars that would rule CHR, Rhythmic and HAC radio. Sadly, in all 10 years old Idol didn’t produce a lot of talent that could be molded that way. Sony managed to establish some great to decent careers for artists that didn’t really fit the ideal of a popstar (Fantasia, Carrie, Kellie, Daughtry), but in the last few years Idol really lost all the connection with current pop music. The show didn’t even try to find contestants that the label could work with and it just got harder and harder.
I think when season 9 produced two singer/songwriter folk/rock artists, best suited for indie label and not really moldable, Sony really just gave up. I think they realized Idols brought them more trouble than profit.

What kind of music Idol contestant did pre-Idol doesn’t really matter for a major label – what might work for an indie artist might not be suitable for a major label artist.

This is very true. And it’s my opinion that there are a lot of people working for the major labels who don’t have a clue. They seem resistant to change and remain complacent after many years of falling back on manufactured music. Yes, there are still people who are buying that crap but I believe there are just as many, if not more, who are hungry for real music by real artists. All one needs to do is look to who had the stand-out albums this year like Adele, Mumford & Sons and Florence + The Machine, just to name a few.

AMEN!!!!!

I don’t think there is any single reason that an Artist fails and sometimes the simple answer is that the artist and the record buying public didn’t gel at the time an album was released.

You can use a movie as a comparison…most talented actor, award winning director and screen writer, great story, wonderful location, great time of year, primo marketing budget…and the movie falls flat as a pancake. Maybe it was the competition when it came out, maybe it was that the market was saturated with similar stories, maybe the director and the writer didn’t hit it off, maybe it was marketed to the wrong type of audience and the trailer put-together person didn’t pick the right vibe, maybe the location evoked memories of a tragedy that happened months after filming, maybe the main actor just got a lot of very bad press.

If everything always worked out wonderfully for every album then we would still be listening to the same dozen or so peeps with the same kind of music year after year after year. But the market sometimes demands failure so that music can evolve and change and new life and new voices rise from the ashes. It sucks for peeps who get into the business at the wrong time for their sound and it is great for someone who is just what the market is looking for when they break. The music business is one big crap shoot and hindsight and what should have been doesn’t count for a pile of crap.

My local library doesn’t even carry Lee’s or Crystal’s CDs, and they still have the CDs of the winners and runners up from the previous two seasons – plus TLM and Glam Nation. In the whole library system there’s no copy of Live It Up (just one of Slumberland). By contrast there’s a good number of the rest of the Idol CDs. (I know this because I was trying to order a copy of LIU.)

CDs don’t always get returned, aren’t often replaced. So there may have been a few of LIU in the system at one time. But if Lee wasn’t properly publicized, there’s a good chance most libraries didn’t know to buy the CDs. CDs are bought using guides like People’s list of upcoming releases, so if the librarians didn’t see the CDs on some list, they wouldn’t buy them. If they bought the other Idol CDs they probably would have bought his too if they had known it was available.

So it seems like a disconnect somewhere. I don’t think Sony cared any more, as they were on the way out.

The ideal for a major label would be if Idol churned out two or three 16-22 year olds that the label could easily repackage into popstars that would rule CHR, Rhythmic and HAC radio. Sadly, in all 10 years old Idol didn’t produce a lot of talent that could be molded that way. Sony managed to establish some great to decent careers for artists that didn’t really fit the ideal of a popstar (Fantasia, Carrie, Kellie, Daughtry), but in the last few years Idol really lost all the connection with current pop music. The show didn’t even try to find contestants that the label could work with and it just got harder and harder.
I think when season 9 produced two singer/songwriter folk/rock artists, best suited for indie label and not really moldable, Sony really just gave up. I think they realized Idols brought them more trouble than profit.

Maybe the idol troubles really did start with the allowance of instruments. You had more musician types audition (without the big voices) and those people perhaps don’t get easily molded into a popstar. Sony wasn’t willing to work with those people to get them the kind of career they were suited for. I doubt Lee or Crystal (or Kris for that matter) would have auditioned if the singer/musician type hadn’t been showcased on Season 7 (Cook, Castro, Brooke White).

Sony managed to establish some great to decent careers for artists that didn’t really fit the ideal of a popstar (Fantasia, Carrie, Kellie, Daughtry), but in the last few years Idol really lost all the connection with current pop music. The show didn’t even try to find contestants that the label could work with and it just got harder and harder.

I have a couple of problems here. One of the greatest things about AI is the diversity of the contestants, and that someone can win no matter what style of music they perform. One of the reasons AI is still the number one show is because of the wins of Fantasia and Ruben. One of the things that can hurt the show, especially among younger viewers, is the appearance that only people who look a certain way or who sing a certain style of music can win. And yes, I know that the whole string of WGWG can hurt the ratings, even though I think everyone who has won AI deserved to win.

No label is going to win if they try to manufacture an artist, or try to just come up with “pop stars”. First of all, there’s really no way to do this on the show, which is why even the X Factor has been heavily populated by winners who would be considered HAC artists here in the US. Secondly, PDs aren’t going to take anyone from a reality show seriously who is more of a pre-packaged pop star than a real artist.

I have been slow to realize the importance of the producer of an album. Like the director of a movie, he makes all the artistic decisions, and is responsible for the finished product. The chances of an artist of Lee’s limited commercial potential being given a first-rate producer, one who “gets” him and cares about his future, were never very good.

Actually, I don’t think that’s true to the general public, who have no idea what “A&R” is (I had no idea what that was until it was brought up in articles). The credit usually goes to the artist for a hit song/album, especially if they cowrote the song(s). At the same time, if the music isn’t good, it’s sometimes on the artist, or the production.

Who deserves the credit for “My December”? Kelly Clarkson or Clive Davis? Outside the Idol bubble, I think that most people would consider this album’s poor performance compared to her previous album Kelly’s fault rather than Clive Davis’s.

Sony managed to establish some great to decent careers for artists that didn’t really fit the ideal of a popstar (Fantasia, Carrie, Kellie, Daughtry), but in the last few years Idol really lost all the connection with current pop music.

I don’t know if this is accurate, when you have fairly recent examples of people like Jordin, Archie, Adam, Kris with pop hits.

And yes, I know that the whole string of WGWG can hurt the ratings

Since Lee is a WGWG I guess this is on topic. There are a lot of people on Idol each season (Archie, Syesha, Brooke, Adam, Danny, Allison, Siobhan, Mike Lynche, Crystal) who are not WGWG, who sometimes go all the way to the end. They’re as responsible for ratings (or lack of ratings) as WGWG. Not to mention the judges.

Yes I’m a firm believer that a producer is a huge factor in making a CD, so who was the primary producer on Lee’s album? RCA brought in Claude Kelly and Toby Gad to help with writing and surely they aren’t cheap so I don’t know why they wouldn’t have spent on a decent producer..

My question is, with all the songs on LIU Lee has has name on, what he said was very important to him, I guess all those songs weren’t really who he is? If I was a songwriter I wouldn’t want to take credit for a bunch of songs that didn’t represent me.

Lee’s lack of sales IMO definitely had something to do with the lack of promo. Lee had some promo, but not that much. The recording industry was changing all along. Even Lambert with his good voice did less than many of the others from previous years. There was not a big buildup for Lee. Personality plus was void from season 9. I think Lee was put in a position to do pop when he was not a pop artist.
And whoever it was above that said Lee was dropped because he did not make the company money, I totally agree. Money is the driving force behind the music industry, it makes a lot, so it pays a lot. As fans take to buying less and less of the albums, going more digital with selections of their liking, or pirating, (which is so easily done), the industry is losing money more than ever before. It is getting harder and harder to be on top in this field. Being on top in the music industry no longer is just about having a good voice, it requires knowledge and business savvy.
Idol and all the other singing shows that taken off because of Idol, are totally enjoyable. It offers promise to contestants who have dreams of making it big. I like that it offers opportunity to the everyday people. The reality of the situation is that the music industry is becoming over saturated, with everyone thinking they are the next big thing. I actually like the idea that Simon (or whoever) has about X-factor. No guarantee of a contract, but money to start building a dream with options down the road. It puts the business of choosing artists back in the hands of professionals. While I like being able to pick and vote for my favorite, fact is, I have no musical knowledge whatsoever, which I suspect is the case of many voters. Popularity plays a large part of audience voting.

Since Lee is a WGWG I guess this is on topic. There are a lot of people on Idol each season (Archie, Syesha, Brooke, Adam, Danny, Allison, Siobhan, Mike Lynche, Crystal) who are not WGWG, who sometimes go all the way to the end. They’re as responsible for ratings (or lack of ratings) as WGWG. Not to mention the judges.

You miss my point. One of the reasons why AI has had such a diverse audience, and such a large audience, is because of the idea that anyone can win the show. As I said, two of the biggest turning points for the show were Fantasia and Ruben’s wins. Diversity among the winners and the cast will attract a younger audience, and keep the show going.

My question is, with all the songs on LIU Lee has has name on, what he said was very important to him, I guess all those songs weren’t really who he is? If I was a songwriter I wouldn’t want to take credit for a bunch of songs that didn’t represent me.

My assumption on any musician’s songs (self-written or co-written) is that these represent an aspect of who that musician is artistically.

It may or may not be the same aspect of that person’s musical identity that was prominent on prior albums, especially those written under different circumstances, with different resources, for a different audience. It may or may not be the same aspect that this musician wants to be exploring three albums in the future. It may or may not be the most marketable aspect. But putting one’s name to a song says “my contribution was vital to this song’s final shape — the end product expresses some part of my musical vision.”

Maybe the idol troubles really did start with the allowance of instruments. You had more musician types audition (without the big voices) and those people perhaps don’t get easily molded into a popstar. Sony wasn’t willing to work with those people to get them the kind of career they were suited for. I doubt Lee or Crystal (or Kris for that matter) would have auditioned if the singer/musician type hadn’t been showcased on Season 7 (Cook, Castro, Brooke White).

It’s hard to say because Taylor Hicks is no pop star either. From the era prior to instruments. And I guess, Ruben and Clay are not easily molded into pop tarts.

I think you’re right, certain people would not have auditioned if they hadn’t felt their kind of music was being done. The judges did choose these folks, though. Must have thought they had some viability as recording artists.

I don’t think it’s all so cut and dried about instruments. They didn’t allow them much this past season, but a pop star didn’t win, or come in second. And the one they tried to make a pop star diva didn’t get the votes and (so far) hasn’t made it. Then there’s Jacob, and Stefano. Kind of “big” singers. But I don’t know if they’re able to be made into pop stars.

Plus, some of the instrument-players don’t really have tiny voices. They don’t embarrass themselves singing the NA. Crystal’s voice is actually kind of large and even Kris who has no rep for it can open up and hold a glory note. Blake (from the pre-instrument era) didn’t have as big a voice as Lee, probably. But he nearly won.

As for Sony not working to create careers for those that don’t fit the pop mold, I think they may have done so for some, not others, depending on whether they think the person has a reasonable amount of marketablity.

I also think personality plays a part and we usually forget that. Some artists click with their label and some don’t – as people, not artists. Sometimes it’s smooth and sometimes it’s abrasive. And I’m sure there are favorites and non-favrites, based on a lot of things other than music, just like in any other job. I’m sure a lot of it is unfair, and even makes no sense, sometimes.

Ross I think you’re right, it’s not so simple as instruments vs big voices. First of all, I don’t think not having a big voice means having a “tiny” voice though. That’s not at all what I meant. It’s just that many of those people seem to be about something besides the voice. Not saying that’s a bad thing, though many people do think so.

I think you’re right, certain people would not have auditioned if they hadn’t felt their kind of music was being done. The judges did choose these folks, though. Must have thought they had some viability as recording artists.

The judges choose people based on their filling a role in the show, not for their viability as artists, imo.

“My question is, with all the songs on LIU Lee has has name on, what he said was very important to him, I guess all those songs weren’t really who he is?”

Of course there are songs that represent the artist; for Lee and DC as co-writers I imagine how they went to the writing sessions with the RCA memo in their hands: “represent yourself as the artist you are, follow these instructions, don’t’ forget to check every step written in that paper and your session is between 9:30 a.m and 12:30 p.m. Be creative!”

ETA: “Shows like Leno, Ellen and Today are a big deal and bring in a lot of viewers and not all are Idol viewers.”

The best way to sell music and be successful is to have a lot of radio play; want to be recognizable?- have some musical awards performances; new fans?- have as many festivals you can… Kelly, Carrie, Daughtry have had all of these, their musical successes are mostly because of radio-plays, thousands of rotations from album to album. Of course those shows Leno, Ellen and Today matter and are a big deal, many musical acts are on these shows, but few have success and recognition. Lee had all of these shows too, but only some 2-3k spins with SS and no promo for Beautiful Like You. The success is not for everyone and yes, a hit single sells your music. And true, HR!
HR says:
10/07/2011 at 11:12 pm “not everyone is destined to be a huge or even moderate success in the music industry even if everything was laid out perfectly before them.”

Who deserves the credit for “My December”? Kelly Clarkson or Clive Davis? Outside the Idol bubble, I think that most people would consider this album’s poor performance compared to her previous album Kelly’s fault rather than Clive Davis’s.

My December was RIAA certified platinum, so it really wasn’t as much of a commercial failure as some people believe. Some fans love that album, and think that it’s Kelly’s best (I’m not one of them), but it failed to spawn radio hits as big as Kelly’s previous albums. I think that Kelly owns the responsibility for that album and it’s her baby. What was unfortunate was the public disagreement between Kelly and Clive, which negatively impacted the promotion for that album. To be honest, given the songs on the album, I’m not sure if tons of promotion would have made much difference. Fortunately, Clive doesn’t appear to have any involvement in Kelly’s most recent album. I think that those Idols who had to deal with Clive had a very different kind of experience with their label than those Idols post-Clive.

My assumption on any musician’s songs (self-written or co-written) is that these represent an aspect of who that musician is artistically.

I think this is everyone’s assumption, but the reality is that the people at the label have a lot of input in regards to how a song sounds. As someone pointed out, a producer can make a sound mean and sound like anything he wants. It doesn’t matter what the singer wrote, the way that a song is produced can cause a song to have a totally different meaning than what was originally intended.

Given the restraints on time, and RCA not being totally invested in Lee, I can see a situation where the album does not truly represent him, even if he did have a hand in all of the songs.

Like I said yesterday, when a CD fails to sell, it is always the artist’s fault. When a CD does sell, it is always because of the label’s great A&R.

That’s from the label’s perspective. From the diehard fan’s POV, if the CD succeeds it is because the artist is amazeballs (and they either fought the man, or the label loved everything about them and let the artist make all the decisions). If the album fails, it is because the label is staffed by morons who made all the wrong decisions and gave the artist no promo.

I fail to see how Lee got no promo. I thought my memory was failing, so I checked the archives. Last November, Lee was everywhere. He was on Leno, Ellen, Regis and Today. He lit the Christmas tree at Graceland, he did an iHeart radio concert, he did other radio concerts, he hosted the VH1 countdown and more. Sounds pretty much like the standard promo every year including this year. Sure, there is a VH1 Countdown here and a Country special there, but it all comes out in the wash.

Lee was just never going to see big numbers. His genre doesn’t generate them and attempts to shoehorn him into a format that does move units was never going to work because he is a stubborn lump. I don’t think there is much the label could have done to change things. I think that is what the label concluded as well.

Anyway, he seems happy now and that’s what matters. Everybody has their own road to travel.

My friend “edit” is back! :-)

You miss my point. One of the reasons why AI has had such a diverse audience, and such a large audience, is because of the idea that anyone can win the show.

I didn’t miss (or disagree, even) with your point. Just the one thing you said about “the whole string of WGWG” [winners?] hurting ratings. I don’t know what this means unless they hurt the ratings of the season following their win. In other words why blame Lee for the ratings of his season? Even if you blame the “string” of winners, they weren’t responsible for the content of their seasons any more than their costars were. That was what I was saying.

I fail to see how Lee got no promo. I thought my memory was failing, so I checked the archives. Last November, Lee was everywhere. He was on Leno, Ellen, Regis and Today. He lit the Christmas tree at Graceland, he did an iHeart radio concert, he did other radio concerts, he hosted the VH1 countdown and more. Sounds pretty much like the standard promo every year including this year. Sure, there is a VH1 Countdown here and a Country special there, but it all comes out in the wash.

Lee got a lot of promo. Idol itself was in a slump, so it’s hard not to imagine that’s going to affect the reception of the winner’s promo. They all do the same promo but it’s better when there’s a positive vibe surrounding the show.

Also, in case anyone has forgotten, Lee suffered a lot from the negative publicity from being the third guy in a row to win the show. The main news story after Lee won was not about him, it was, “Can a woman ever win Idol again?” Lee got much undeserved shit for that. Never mind that a fourth guy has now won, and no one cares. Lee’s season, that was the big story.

It’s hard to start out on a negative. (Remember 38 million text votes?) And to me, having the mass media question your win is as good an explanation of disappointing sales as any.

On a side note, I think the more years the Idols do the same type of “standard” promo, the less anyone pays attention to it. Because the Idol novelty has worn off. Some Idols like Adam are savvy enough to capture attention doing a few offbeat things. Because they realize we have seen it all.

I came into this kinda naive….a casual non buying viewer that enjoyed the show and threw a few votes in for my favorite because I thought I was helping them realize their dream. If they made it or not was up to them, but I did think that if they won, they won the same package. I’m not qualified to say for sure he was short changed, but it did seem so to me. Anyhow, to be a success by being something you’re not would be a hollow victory, so I hope Lee continues being himself and does something he is truly proud of. I like all his music, but I seem to play LIU the most. And I think he should be proud of it too. Play on, Lee!

That’s from the label’s perspective. From the diehard fan’s POV, if the CD succeeds it is because the artist is amazeballs (and they either fought the man, or the label loved everything about them and let the artist make all the decisions). If the album fails, it is because the label is staffed by morons who made all the wrong decisions and gave the artist no promo.

I think from the general public’s perspective, the blame is still on the artist, not the label. This is because the label has access to the media and the greater ability to get their version of the story out first and to a wider audience, i.e. the artist was resistant to good A&R. With the explosion of social media though, I suspect that the label will eventually lose the advantage they currently enjoy in getting their position out. Then it will really be interesting.

Last November, Lee was everywhere. He was on Leno, Ellen, Regis and Today. He lit the Christmas tree at Graceland, he did an iHeart radio concert, he did other radio concerts, he hosted the VH1 countdown and more. Sounds pretty much like the standard promo every year including this year.

Thank you. I’m glad somebody else agrees with me and you’ve got the facts right there!

The label isn’t always at fault. There are people that you can give the same song to, you can apply the same A&R, you can even hand the same promo and they will not sale while others will.

In this case they looked at what he brought to the company and concluded his commercial potential would be limited even with their resources and released him. If they were wrong about his potential then let him prove elsewhere. Other people outside of Idol have been released from record contracts and done just that.

What happened to the millions of voters that selected him? Why didn’t they buy the record? Because there were no “millions” of voters.
Votes need to be limited per device. Period.

^THIS^ It might give Ryan Seacrest less to brag about, but I would love to see the votes limited. It would give the artists and their labels a much more realistic view, and maybe give a better idea of the direction that marketing should take.

Only people in the Idol bubble will stop paying attention if Idols do all the same shows. The point of these shows is to remind people who may have seen said artist on Idol they have music out, or to attract new fans. Shows like Leno, Ellen and Today are a big deal and bring in a lot of viewers and not all are Idol viewers. And some of the more rare promo stuff (Adam closing the AMA’s, David on SNL) isn’t the kind of stuff that’s going to be handed to all Idols. Hell Daughtry still hasn’t even done SNL.

I fail to see how Lee got no promo. I thought my memory was failing, so I checked the archives. Last November, Lee was everywhere. He was on Leno, Ellen, Regis and Today. He lit the Christmas tree at Graceland, he did an iHeart radio concert, he did other radio concerts, he hosted the VH1 countdown and more. Sounds pretty much like the standard promo every year including this year.

Yay, Kirsten! I said this earlier in the thread and pretty much got shot down. As far as I can remember, which is from Season 4 on, the winners seem to have all gotten the same promos and the same promo gigs.

Lee was just never going to see big numbers. His genre doesn’t generate them and attempts to shoehorn him into a format that does move units was never going to work .

Yes! :)

Whenever an Idol is dropped from a major label, the initial reaction seems to be 1) So and So’s label did not do enough to promote them 2) So and So is better off – they are now free to do the kind of music they want and will be picked up by another big label.

I remember last year when it was announced that Allison Iraheta had been dropped – and the insistence that she actually chose to leave Jive so that she could be signed with RCA to buddy up with Adam Lambert.

But know we all know that never happened.

Shows like Leno, Ellen and Today are a big deal and bring in a lot of viewers and not all are Idol viewers.

I love music but I don’t go to these shows to look for new music. I don’t even watch them if not for MJ telling me my fav artist is performing on them. I listen to the radio.

BTW, If Kelly has sung Mr.Know-It-All on any of these shows. I would just go okay nice song and forget all about it. However, if the song is blasted on the radio every day, I would sit up and take notice.

The label isn’t always at fault. There are people that you can give the same song to, you can apply the same A&R, you can even hand the same promo and they will not sale while others will.

Of course they wont. But why would you give these two people the same song, and why would you give them the same promotion. They aren’t the same person, so the promo, song, and artist development should be tailored to them.

Each alum has had to deal with different obstacles, and despite the silly claim that three of the last four winners are the same person, each winner has had his or her own style, so why just come up with one way to market and develop them, and expect that plan to work for all of them.

I remember a while back a fan was upset that their favorite didn’t win AI, and in an attempt to put down the winner this person said that their favorite could sing like the winner, but the winner couldn’t sing like the runner up. In the real world no one wants these two to sing like the other, we want them to sing and release the music that best suits them.

Lee’s situation is really a catch 22. For someone like Lee (and really anybody), radio play and promotion is key. Since season 9 was so poorly received he basically needed to reconstruct his fanbase with a radio friendly song. But, Lee’s not really the kind of guy who sings what’s popular on the radio now. The label chooses the most radio friendly song they can think of and it doesn’t really take off. So why, from the labels perspective would they put more money into an artist they know isn’t going to sell?

Lee needed something the label just wasn’t willing or in the position financially to give. Period.

Yes, there are still people who are buying that crap but I believe there are just as many, if not more, who are hungry for real music by real artists.

Count me as one who is starving!

****************************

That angst/gravely quality to his voice is what makes Lee Lee. * * * a good A&R person should have tried to find a HAC song that would allow him to showcase those qualities.

I agree, up to a point. I know it’s been mentioned that Lee cowrote most songs. But I don’t think it’s as simple as that. The labels have influence in which of an artist’s songs make the CD and how the song is packaged production-wise. You need the right song, but you also need the same vision for the right song as well.

I have no idea how representative Lee’s major label debut is of him as an artist, cowrites or no cowrites. I only know I like Lee’s pre-Idol material (yes, the angst & gravel) but don’t like his RCA release.

I am not trying to shift blame. Lee doesn’t have a personality likely to engage large numbers of people. I think he would be difficult to market, even if he hadn’t been on an unpopular season (never mind the dispute about why the season was unpopular). I do think Lee is talented and that there is a market for him, but someone needs to think hard about how to reach Lee’s potential audience. Generic is not going to cut it.

I love music but I don’t go to these shows to look for new music. I don’t even watch them if not for MJ telling me my fav artist is performing on them. I listen to the radio.

I’m not saying people are purposely watching talk shows to look for new music, but these shows ARE watched and if you happen to hear a musical guest you like some people will check out what they have out there for sale. I watch Ellen and Jimmy Fallon regularly and I absolutely have stumbled upon artists I became interested in from hearing them on there. I wasnt very familar with Mumford and Sons until I saw them on Fallon. The next day I bought their album. It happens.

Shows like Leno, Ellen and Today are a big deal and bring in a lot of viewers and not all are Idol viewers.

Ellen’s influence is over-rated. She has put her full power and connections behind Greyson Chance and he has only managed to sell 36,000 copies of his first CD. If he were an American Idol contestant, he would have been dropped by the label and savaged by those in the bubble. Instead, he is working on his next album and has hinted that he is going on his 3rd tour of the year this December, having earlier toured with hot teen acts Miranda Cosgrove and Cody Simpson.

David Cook performed TLG on Leno, Ellen and the Today Show and saw virtually no bump in sales of the song.

My point…was that not everyone is destined to be a huge or even moderate success in the music industry even if everything was laid out perfectly before them.

This guy had no business winning AI. I always thought he was a lousy singer, and nothing he’s done since then has changed my mind. S9 was one gigantic clusterfuck of a season. Everyone except Siobhan was severely lacking in talent.

The problem with most Idol first CDs is that they have like half an hour to make them. Of course they’re not very good / representative of the artist. Some people take longer to ‘cook’ if you will. I think Lee is one of them. He can’t be hurried. So recording Sweet Serendipity was a mistake he never recovered from. He lacks the lightness to sell a light song. I’m not saying he’s without talent or some appeal but there’s something [IMO, of course] hang dog about the guy. He always looks miserable and angsty to me. Even in his engagement pictures, he looks like someone just said to him, “Smile, dude. It’s not all bad.” There’s a quality most stars have of being in control, for lack of a better word. They go out, they grab a mike, they’re in charge. Lee never seems in charge to me. He seems nervous. He’s a truly terrible and rambling interview. He wears shlumpy clothing and doesn’t get photographed out and about. He’s shy.

So A&R got a guy with some appeal, some talent, pretty blue eyes, but projects insecurity and angst. He writes songs that are lulling not invigorating. How do you market that for the masses? You can’t, really. I say this because I don’t think that Lee was sold down the river. It was in Sony’s interests to SELL him. They wanted to make money from him. I think they bounced around a lot of thoughts. But remember they had half an hour to pick songs, record, and decide on where it was going.

It’s also true that Idol is a siloed musical experience. You decide – while you watch the show – that you like Siobhan better than Crystal, or Lee better than Casey J. You vote accordingly. But later, you can like everyone better than your favorite on Idol. You can buy Ben Folds, not Lee DeWyze. It’s a problem.

Idol itself was in a slump, so it’s hard not to imagine that’s going to affect the reception of the winner’s promo. They all do the same promo but it’s better when there’s a positive vibe surrounding the show.

True. And it certainly wasn’t Lee’s fault that there was a negative vibe that year. But it wasn’t his promoter’s fault either. They all had to work with what they were given.

Also, in case anyone has forgotten, Lee suffered a lot from the negative publicity from being the third guy in a row to win the show. The main news story after Lee won was not about him, it was, “Can a woman ever win Idol again?” Lee got much undeserved shit for that. Never mind that a fourth guy has now won, and no one cares. Lee’s season, that was the big story.

People care. It’s still very much a question whether a girl can ever win again, or whether the tween/mom vote (take your pick to blame) will continue to dominate.

The big story this year is… has Idol become “Country Idol”? Will another type of singer ever have a chance? But I don’t think it’s hurting Scotty because 1) he’s very likable, 2) he beat another country singer to get the title, and 3) Idol’s working with a different label that’s more excited about these Idol singers than Sony was after 9 years.

It’s hard to start out on a negative. (Remember 38 million text votes?) And to me, having the mass media question your win is as good an explanation of disappointing sales as any.

True. But Kris was the one who had to deal with that press mess. The big story his year was “Is America Too Homophobic for a Gay Idol?” (with the added sidebar of “Arkansas Cheated!”) I think Kris did a very good job at showing why he deserved to win the title. I don’t think Lee was as successful at turning around the story in his year, even though I think he had as much PR support as Kris did.

But Kris did benefit from being an underdog, which is a good, sellable story. And he started out with a coronation song that sold well, a cover song (Heartless) that people loved, and a solid hit with LWWD.

Lee had none of that going for him. But I don’t think he’d ever have been a blockbuster seller and probably the standard Idol contract with its increasingly large advances was never going to work with what Lee can be reasonably expected to sell.

I get quite incensed when I think about how Lee was treated by Idol, the TV show. My blood boils at the whole Season 10 finale thing. But I can’t be mad at RCA. I think they gave him as good a chance as they could. It just wasn’t a good fit.

Lee was just never going to see big numbers. His genre doesn’t generate them and attempts to shoehorn him into a format that does move units was never going to work.

Every time I see an explanation like this I ask myself A. Why does Idol let singer/songwriters on the show if it isn’t going to support them by forming alliances with labels that will let them be them, and B. If Idol wants to let them on the show to balance out pop/country/R&B contestants, why haven’t they aligned themselves with labels that will promote these artists to some degree of success? People blame the contestant, they blame the public for voting for the wrong people, they blame the label/management for not doing their jobs. I blame Idol for not knowing what it wants to be when it grows up.

I am ashamed to ask, but what does “A&R” stand for? Thanks to anyone who answers.

Every time I see an explanation like this I ask myself A. Why does Idol let singer/songwriters on the show if it isn’t going to support them by forming alliances with labels that will let them be them, and B. If Idol wants to let them on the show to balance out pop/country/R&B contestants, why haven’t they aligned themselves with labels that will promote these artists to some degree of success? People blame the contestant, they blame the public for voting for the wrong people, they blame the label/management for not doing their jobs. I blame Idol for not knowing what it wants to be when it grows up.

The most important thing is the show, and the show can only survive if the cast is diverse, and that includes singer/songwriters, and artists of every genre.

Elliegrll, try about the show itself. I just think Idol needs to know what to do with people like Lee to showcase them in the best possible light if they do win or are the runner up.

The big story this year is… has Idol become “Country Idol”? Will another type of singer ever have a chance? But I don’t think it’s hurting Scotty because 1) he’s very likable, 2) he beat another country singer to get the title, and 3) Idol’s working with a different label that’s more excited about these Idol singers than Sony was after 9 years.

I haven’t seen a lot of those kinds of stories. Wouldn’t at least two country singers need to win in a row before anyone would start to say it’s a trend?

The thing with Lee tended to be damaging because it implied negative things like he shouldn’t have won and if Crystal had not been a woman she would have won. So people who never saw the show may have started out with a negative opinion of him – who didn’t even know him, his music, etc.

Apparently Lauren had a commercial for her new CD. Now, please don’t tell me there is no difference in promo.

So people who never saw the show may have started out with a negative opinion of him – who didn’t even know him, his music, etc.

That is the power of media and press. They are allowed to report with no mind of consequences and responsibility of what they say. There are artist who have committed suicide due to negative press. And its nobody’s fault.

I think Kris did a very good job at showing why he deserved to win the title. I don’t think Lee was as successful at turning around the story in his year, even though I think he had as much PR support as Kris did.

Kris helped turn the story around by responding to every annoying question about why he won, and about Adam with cheerfulness and unfailing politeness. Lee is not less articulate than Kris but as someone else noted, he does not do light and cheerful. He comes across as reserved and a little somber at times. Add in all the negativity about his win and lack of positive press and he was looking at a huge hurdle to overcome.
Why couldn’t Sony have passed on Lee and helped him move to a label that would have been a better fit for him? Instead they try to force a square peg into a round hole. The label loses money and the artist loses time better spent making music that fits them better.

According this longtime Lee blogger, Lee knew as far back as July that he had been dropped by RCA. So it may have been right after the S10 finale that he first found out.

http://redbeanie.tumblr.com/post/11169712012

Apparently Lauren had a commercial for her new CD. Now, please don’t tell me there is no difference in promo.

There is no difference in promo.

Lee had a commercial too, I saw it on VH1 several times. It was a commercial with the SS video behind it and then showed the CD.

Lee’s an okay singer but he doesn’t really seem business savvy at all. He could have potential because I have heard some of his pre-idol music. Also, boy he is boring. He might need a personality transplant. Is there one? He’s super boring. Sorry, Lee fans. I wish him luck though.

Even Thia and Naima did the same round of talk shows this year that Lee did. But that was 19′s promo. I’m talking about lack of radio promo by RCA. They did some, but Lee was clearly on the budget plan.
Lee is actually a really funny guy-I have met and talked to him and seen some really hilarious interviews. He really didn’t have much of a chance to show that on the show-except for the bagpipes- because the judges and their bad chemistry seemed to suck up all the air in the room and took the focus off getting to know the contestants.

I’d be very surprised if Lee went back to his old label. They are based in Chicago and he is in LA. he doesn’t seem to be involved at all with the release of the old material. Everytime one comes out he reminds everyone his focus is on new material. I’m also not seeing how him working with these name songwriters and producers fit into that. But I’ve been wrong about this whole process so we’ll see what happens.

Yeah I understand it’s not easy being indie and it’s a lot more complicated than just getting artistic freedom back. But Lee was never trying to be the most popular or commercial Idol. Not everyone defines success the same way nor strives for it in the same manner. If he isn’t a mainstream artist from this point forward that’s ok by me. I’ll always look for and support his music. I wouldn’t say that his RCA album did not represent him. But I can see that it wasn’t produced in a manner that best reflected or positioned him. There is a lot that happens between songwriting and release. Hopefully on his future projects that won’t be as much of an issue.

I’m interested to see how Idol handles the next wave of contestants and winner/runner up, as well as Idols putting out new albums. I don’t see much commercial interest outside of country. The show can’t sell rockers or showcase rhythmic pop artists, where other than country does that leave them in the current commercial scene?

Yeah I understand it’s not easy being indie and it’s a lot more complicated than just getting artistic freedom back. But Lee was never trying to be the most popular or commercial Idol. Not everyone defines success the same way nor strives for it in the same manner. If he isn’t a mainstream artist from this point forward that’s ok by me. I’ll always look for and support his music. I wouldn’t say that his RCA album did not represent him. But I can see that it wasn’t produced in a manner that best reflected or positioned him. There is a lot that happens between songwriting and release. Hopefully on his future projects that won’t be as much of an issue.

This is exactly how I feel.

Lee, in conjunction with a local radio station, played at a lunchtime gig here in Salt Lake at a very popular local brewery restaurant and was heavily advertised…and nobody showed up (no more than the usual lunch time crowd) and nobody stopped eating to hear him play…he was pretty much back ground noise.

All the promo in the world, all the right songs, even 20 million viewers on National TV can’t force an audience to connect with a performer. The old adage, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink, is a total truism where Lee is concerned. Even now, after a year of self-promotion, he can’t fill local club dates with spectators let alone fans. He just isn’t marketable…bottom line.

My experiences at the 3 Lee concerts that I went to were very different from what Tess described. The audiences were packed and they were with him all the way, singing along, etc. These were in New York City, Fairfield, CT, and Stamford, CT. The crowds were a mix of men, women, teenagers, families and college students. People had come from very far away to get a chance to see him live and in one case braved very bad weather. His fanbase has been wishing for a live album. When he plays his songs from LIU live then you know why he won American Idol. Also- have to add that I went to a 4th concert in Massachusetts where he was on with Train and other artists and again the reception for him was fabulous.

The most important thing is the show, and the show can only survive if the cast is diverse, and that includes singer/songwriters, and artists of every genre.

Yes, the continued massive commercial success of the show is THE most important thing, far more than the tour or what happens to the contestants after the show. I think that cast diversity is important and fosters diversity in the audience, but over the years, that has changed. The Idol audience has become narrower, rather than broader, and that has shaped the kind of contestants who advance and eventually win.

Cost for a 30-second ad on various primetime shows:

http://www.frankwbaker.com/prime_time_programs_30_sec_ad_costs.htm

and the insistence that she actually chose to leave Jive so that she could be signed with RCA to buddy up with Adam Lambert

I don’t remember people saying she was going “buddy up with Adam at RCA”. At least this is one Allison fan who never believed she left Jive on her own and wasn’t surprised about her being let go. I do however think Jive had no clue what to do with her and marketed (the little they did) completely wrong. I don’t know if she’s better off without them, but I’m almost sure she wasn’t going to be happy if she had stayed with them, trying to make them happy being something she wasn’t.

I was never a Lee fan, never understood why he won (based on his singing & against Crystal), other than the obvious “fits the demo” explanation, but from what little of him I saw after Idol, I don’t think RCA gave him much of a push. He’s a musician, and seems like a talented song writer, he’ll be fine with a smaller label or even just writing for other people and doing small shows where he might feel more comfortable.

Tigervixxxen:

Yeah I understand it’s not easy being indie and it’s a lot more complicated than just getting artistic freedom back. But Lee was never trying to be the most popular or commercial Idol. Not everyone defines success the same way nor strives for it in the same manner. If he isn’t a mainstream artist from this point forward that’s ok by me. I’ll always look for and support his music. I wouldn’t say that his RCA album did not represent him. But I can see that it wasn’t produced in a manner that best reflected or positioned him. There is a lot that happens between songwriting and release. Hopefully on his future projects that won’t be as much of an issue.

I agree with you, and I think people should be the type of artists they want. The problem is that everyone from Idol being compared against the most successful idols by the media and online. An Idol winner could have had numbers that were good for their genre, but because they weren’t as high as previous winners, are called a failure. I think this really hurt the perception of Lee’s album.

And I also agree about the album itself. I think the albums are made in so little time, that it is difficult to make the best album you can, especially if someone isn’t given the resources that others had been given.

Lee’s personality is definitely laid back and chill as they say. Alot of his performances are just him and his guitar and his keyboard player. That’s where he shines the best.

Does he have the X-factor so to speak, probably not. But when I see David Cook or Kris Allen do I see the X-factor there. No I don’t. All are seemingly nice guys with good voices but no “it” factor.

And during Season 9, Lee’s songs Hallelujah, Simple Man, The Boxer, were the highest sellers on Itunes charts that season.

Kwicks13:

Does he have the X-factor so to speak, probably not. But when I see David Cook or Kris Allen do I see the X-factor there. No I don’t. All are seemingly nice guys with good voices but no “it” factor

I like all three, but of the three, I think David Cook does have the most of the X -Factor. His live shows are fantastic, and he has a lot of charisma.

And I also think whatever the X factor or it factor is they have as much or more than others in the type of music they are doing.

And during Season 9, Lee’s songs Hallelujah, Simple Man, The Boxer, were the highest sellers on Itunes charts that season.

This is where I really believe that the voting on the show does at least somewhat reflect popularity, because the winners and runners up do generally have the highest sales of their idol songs.

Karen, I agree that the winners songs should sell more during the show……but many of the posters above made it sound like Lee had no standout songs during the show…..which I believe he did. Especially the ones I named above.

His BD coronation song didn’t sell as well, but neither did Crystal’s Up to the Mountain song either.

Yes, the continued massive commercial success of the show is THE most important thing, far more than the tour or what happens to the contestants after the show. I think that cast diversity is important and fosters diversity in the audience, but over the years, that has changed. The Idol audience has become narrower, rather than broader, and that has shaped the kind of contestants who advance and eventually win.

The audience is still diverse, but not the people who bother to vote. That problem could be the result of the pool of viable winners not being as diverse as it was during the early days of the show.

kvwicks13 says:
10/08/2011 at 9:38 am
Karen, I agree that the winners songs should sell more during the show……but many of the posters above made it sound like Lee had no standout songs during the show…..which I believe he did. Especially the ones I named above.

I agree with you there. Some of his songs did do very well. And what I believe is that if someones itunes sales were highest or one of the highest, it reflects popularity, because most people are not going to buy the singles multiple, but they could vote several times. So when it is stated that someone won because a small group of people voted multiple times, I think if the itunes sales were also the highest, it shows that they still had the most popularity.

And during Season 9, Lee’s songs Hallelujah, Simple Man, The Boxer, were the highest sellers on Itunes charts that season.

Cite? I’ve never seen in-season numbers. Just post-season.

The audience is still diverse, but not the people who bother to vote. That problem could be the result of the pool of viable winners not being as diverse as it was during the early days of the show.

The audience stats would argue against continued diversity, and I haven’t seen any stats regarding the profile of those who vote vs. total viewers. Progressively, the Idol audience has aged and become less diverse, which naturally would affect the profile of the voters. I’m not sure by “diversity” what you are referring to. I am referring to the type of person who watches/votes.

Tess-

Were you at that radio gig? Do you have attendance figures and know exactly how many were there specifically for Lee? Lee did a lot of these, and earned a lot of spins from the mid sized stations. One concert at a mall led the station involved to play Sweet Serendipity 30+ times a week. These gigs are part of the work of being a recording artist.
Lee did several concerts with other artists, such as Train, and each time he received a standing ovation from the audience.

A few posts up it was said he didnt get much radio promo

Lee did a lot of these, and earned a lot of spins from the mid sized stations. One concert at a mall led the station involved to play Sweet Serendipity 30+ times a week. These gigs are part of the work of being a recording artist.
Lee did several concerts with other artists, such as Train, and each time he received a standing ovation from the audience.

If he did a lot of these shows, that’s radio promo. If RCA set these shows up, they did their part. I dont know how much more they could have done outside of illegal payola. Radio station concerts are always hit and miss because while artists work hard doing them, there’s never a guarantee the station will add the song thats being promoted.

Cite? I’ve never seen in-season numbers. Just post-season

Kirsten, I was going off memory….but I was pretty close to what I remembered. I found the attached link.

http://www.rickey.org/chart-news-lee-dewyze-and-crystal-bowersox-billboard-and-soundscan-numbers/

Billboard recap of Idol digital downloads after the S9 finale:

‘Idols’ Lee DeWyze, Crystal Bowersox Impact Billboard Charts

by Keith Caulfield, L.A. | June 02, 2010 11:38 EDT

Last week’s “American Idol” finale certainly added some spice to a slow run on this week’s Billboard charts, with winner Lee DeWyze, runner-up Crystal Bowersox and a number of the show’s guest stars impacting the Digital Songs chart and the Billboard 200 albums tally.

Many of the contestants’ songs have been available to purchase in the iTunes Store for weeks now, but — as has been done in years’ past — their weekly sales are withheld from SoundScan (and from appearing in the iTunes Store’s own popularity lists) so as to not influence the voting public in the course of the season.

This past week was the first of the current “Idol” season where the sales were transmitted to SoundScan, and thus, we see DeWyze and Bowersox arrive on the Digital Songs chart. DeWyze’s top seller is his cover of U2′s “Beautiful Day,” which bows at No. 12 with 95,000. Bowersox’s biggest is her rendition of Patty Griffin’s “Up to the Mountain,” debuting at No. 32 with 49,000.

Neither “Idol” posed a threat for the No. 1 position though. Katy Perry’s “California Gurls” re-takes the pole position with “California Girls,” rising two spots with 269,000 (up 16%). Last week’s No. 1, Usher’s “OMG,” falls to No. 3 with 227,000 (down 4%). Two songs jump into the top 10 this week: La Roux’s “Bulletproof” (rising from No. 11 to No. 7 with 119,000 — up 22%) and the “Glee” Cast’s cover of Lady Gaga’s “Poker Face” (flying from No. 66 to No. 9 with 109,000 — up 353%).

DeWyze also posts entries on the 75-position chart with “Hallelujah” (No. 20; 63,000), “Falling Slowly” (with Bowersox, No. 38; 44,000) and “The Boxer” (No. 61; 26,000). Bowersox debuts with only the two previously mentioned titles.

Last year, winner Kris Allen sold 134,000 downloads of the original tune “No Boundaries” in its first week, entering at No. 4. Runner-up Adam Lambert’s best-seller was his redux of Tears for Fears’ “Mad World” with 115,000 (No. 7). Each of the two gents posted five debuts on the Digital Songs chart.

Two years ago, champion David Cook moved 236,000 of “The Time of My Life” (No. 1) while second-placer David Archuleta’s biggest single during finale week was his cover of John Lennon’s “Imagine” (71,000; No. 16). Cook wowed the list with 14 individual debuts, while Archuleta managed three.

DeWyze’s “Beautiful Day” and Bowersox’s “Up to the Mountain” seem on course for somewhat tepid debuts on the sales/airplay-hybrid Billboard Hot 100 chart, due to be released on Thursday (3). A full recap of all the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart action will follow on Thursday morning.

Both DeWyze and Bowersox also released digital albums last week titled “Season 9 Favorite Performances.” Each features 12 tracks from throughout the season by each performer. Both titles sold about 2,000 downloads each — with Bowersox’s just a hair ahead of DeWyze’s. Neither title debuts on the Billboard 200 albums chart or the Digital Albums chart.

Those sales stats are a far cry from the “Favorite Performances” numbers that Allen and Lambert posted last year. Lambert’s “Favorite Performances” blew in with 16,000 sold in its first week — bowing at No. 33 on the Billboard 200 and No. 5 on Digital Albums. Allen’s “Favorite Performances” moved 10,000 upon its arrival, starting at No. 50 on the Billboard 200 and No. 8 on Digital Albums.

Shifting gears from the DeWyze and Bowersox lovefest, let’s look at some of the other “Idol”-related impact on Digital Songs and on the Billboard 200.

Carrie Underwood’s “Undo It” — which she performed on the finale — climbs from No. 61 to No. 18 on Digital Songs with 69,000 (up 165%). Her album “Play On” also moves from No. 35 to No. 24 on the Billboard 200 with 16,000 (up 36%) … Will Young’s “Leave Right Now” benefits from his performance on the first half of the two-night finale, as it debuts at No. 50 on Digital Songs with 32,000 … Poison’s “The Best of Poison” album re-enters the Billboard 200 at No. 111 with 5,000 (up 117%) after the band’s Bret Michaels performed the set’s “Every Rose Has Its Thorn” on the finale.

Digital track sales this past week totaled 21.7 million downloads, down 1% compared to last week (21.9 million) and up 1% compared to the comparable week of 2009 (21.5 million). Year to date track sales are at 488.0 million, down less than 1% compared to the same total at this point last year (488.6 million).

America Idol is a singing show, it’s not a songwriter show. The audience doesn’t vote on these people’s original songs and yet contestants like Lee DeWyze think they are entitled to write their entire albums. Unfortunately, some of these winners are not very good songwriters. That’s why Lee flopped, he simply wasn’t a good enough songwriter to write such a high-profile release- and it’s a reason alot of these Idol contestants like David Cook and Archie are flopping- their songs aren’t great, yet they are being allowed to write them. They then blame poor sales on everything and everyone else but themselves. Adam Lambert will be the next Idol to flop because of this, he supposedly is writing most or nearly all of his next album. He’s a terrible songwriter, but has been hired to write a high-profile album, when it flops and it most certainly will- you’ll know why.

America Idol is a singing show, it’s not a songwriter show.

Not really, Idol is a reality show.

America Idol is a singing show, it’s not a songwriter show. The audience doesn’t vote on these people’s original songs and yet contestants like Lee DeWyze think they are entitled to write their entire albums. Unfortunately, some of these winners are not very good songwriters.

Well they may not be very good songwriters, but what you’re leaving out is that mostly they are writing with established, prolific and supposedly very good songwriters. If they were writing their entire albums themselves, well then you might be correct.

These stations Lee did promo for did add him and most gave him a lot of spins. Lee did not get promo gigs in the top 10 stations, except in Chicago.His song was premiered on Ryan’s show, rather than at a big market, Idol friendly station that might have played the song again. SS got pulled from VH1 while it was still on the countdown, which indicates to me that RCA removed support. Lee did not get a second single when SS started to slip- he got one, in name only, months later, with no radio promo, adds date or music video.
In addition, Lee had no ITunes banner until his album had been out several days and then only for a week or so (Crystal had one for six weeks). I’m not saying RCA gave him no promo, just less than the typical Idol treatment.

Lee’s situation is really a catch 22. For someone like Lee (and really anybody), radio play and promotion is key. Since season 9 was so poorly received he basically needed to reconstruct his fanbase with a radio friendly song

I think this hits the nail on the head. Lee’s song was barely played by the major radio stations. Why not? It wasn’t a great song, but it was as good as other songs being played on radio over and over today. It was just as good as anything that Jon Mayer, Maroon 5, Plain White T’s, The Script, etc. put out and get plenty of radio play, and certainly as good as the past 2-3 Idol’s first songs. Plus in past years radio stations would promote the song just because the singer was from Idol, who gave them a built-in fan base. So why did they totally ignore Lee’s song? I think the onus was on RCA to make sure the radio stations played his song, and they didn’t do this.

I’ve always thought the ITunes “glitch” on Live It Up’s release day had more of a negative impact on Lee than we realize. Radio stations introduce new music on Tuesdays, and they get this from the ITunes New Music library. They will play the top 5 songs and get listener’s opinions. Lee’s was top 2 when it came out, but not until much later in the day, after the radio stations’ “New Music Tuesday” bits were done. Listeners who hear new music on Tuesday mornings will call and request, thus getting the ball rolling for new songs to be played. Or they’ll hear on the radio that his CD is released and will go buy it. Lee didn’t get that because of the ITunes snafu. This would explain why there was such a huge increase in sales for him after his Idol appearance – people didn’t even realize he had an album out until then.

I love Lee’s music, pre- and post-Idol, and I, like tigervixxxen, will look for and buy any new music he releases, whether it’s with a new label, indie, whatever. I wish him good luck…maybe the tide will turn with his next offering and he’ll get some luckier breaks. I hope so.

Lee wrote all the songs on Slumberland and So I’m Told at a very young age. The majority of these before he was 21 years old. So I think he’s a pretty damn good songwriter.

Adam Lambert will be the next Idol to flop because of this, he supposedly is writing most or nearly all of his next album.

The facts are that he is/was writing with a long list of collaborators, some less known, and some acknowledged hitmakers. He’s not a ~true musician after all. So if the album flops, it won’t be because he wrote it all himself.

Does he have the X-factor so to speak, probably not. But when I see David Cook or Kris Allen do I see the X-factor there. No I don’t. All are seemingly nice guys with good voices but no “it” factor.

I like all three, but of the three, I think David Cook does have the most of the X -Factor. His live shows are fantastic, and he has a lot of charisma.

Some people have a legit beef that the performer in question has (to their way of thinking) no “it” factor.

But when a person generates a lot of comments about how much they lack something, you start to wonder. If they weren’t interesting, talented, or hot, or whatever – if they had no “it”, in other words – they’d be forgotten and literally no one would bother.

Kirsten, I was going off memory….but I was pretty close to what I remembered. I found the attached link.

Those are post-season (well there are a couple of days of in-season). It doesn’t truly tell us who sold the most singles all season.

Plus in past years radio stations would promote the song just because the singer was from Idol, who gave them a built-in fan base. So why did they totally ignore Lee’s song? I think the onus was on RCA to make sure the radio stations played his song, and they didn’t do this.

I think that labels use presales as a guide to how much money to spend on promotion, so having weak presales is projected as poor overall sales (not unreasonable) and less profits (or worse, being in the red), which guides the level of promotion.

Those are post-season (well there are a couple of days of in-season). It doesn’t truly tell us who sold the most singles all season.

The only post season song I listed was the coronation songs. All the others were during idol. I watched them chart on Itunes as soon as they were released. The other top 10 contestants from Season 9 didn’t chart as high. So Lee and Crystal charted the highest numbers. Lee’s Hallelujah charted higher than Crystal’s Up to the Mountain.

Yes, Lee had trouble at radio, but it was clear (at least to me) that RCA and 19 were trying. He did get a decent number of hac adds, and he did various hac jingle balls, in studio performances etc. etc. That is radio promo. I have little doubt that they tried to get him the big market adds — why wouldn’t they? Why would they only try to get middle market adds? I knew when WPLJ — a very idol friendly big-market hac station that spins Kelly, Daughtry, Cook, Adam and Kris a ton (yep, they even added FYE and TLG) –didn’t add that RCA was having trouble at radio with Lee. I cannot imagine any scenario in which they did not try to get Lee added to PLJ and other big market hac stations. But there is only so much they can do if the PD won’t bite. I think it was just very tough for him to overcome the perception of a poor idol season and that he was the best of a dull bunch. There just wasn’t a lot of excitement for him by radio or the medi coming off idol, and that is a very difficult situation.

I don’t know why Adam is relevant to this thread but 1) he isn’t writing anything by himself but is collaborating with well-known hitmakers, 2) when he does write he tends to write lyrics, not music/beats/etc., and 3) he has already alluded to songs on the cd that weren’t written by him. However, i do agree that the Idols (and their fans) are putting too much emphasis on writing their own material and having co-writes released as singles etc. Better to have a hit written by someone else (especially in the early stages of your career), than a flop that you wrote yourself. IMO

Unfortunately, some of these winners are not very good songwriters. That’s why Lee flopped, he simply wasn’t a good enough songwriter to write such a high-profile release- and it’s a reason alot of these Idol contestants like David Cook and Archie are flopping

Agree with you. This is the reason why Daughtry is so successful because he is an excellent songwriter. What these Idols need to be doing is to collaborate with other well-known songwriters or if you don’t have the talent, don’t even bother trying to write a song.

America Idol is a singing show, it’s not a songwriter show. The audience doesn’t vote on these people’s original songs and yet contestants like Lee DeWyze think they are entitled to write their entire albums. Unfortunately, some of these winners are not very good songwriters. That’s why Lee flopped, he simply wasn’t a good enough songwriter to write such a high-profile release- and it’s a reason alot of these Idol contestants like David Cook and Archie are flopping- their songs aren’t great, yet they are being allowed to write them.

This argument would make more sense, if Lee, Archie and the others weren’t co-writing their albums with multiple successful and established writers. I believe that Lee only had one song that he wrote by himself that made the album.

Aside from that little fact, I doubt that most people took the time to check the entire album out. Initially, most albums are going to be purchased based on the pre album promotion and the first single. Going into the process it was evident that Lee was going to have a rough time, because of the fallout from the season, so he needed a good single to help him, but he didn’t get it. Based on its number of spins, most people don’t even know that Lee had a debut single.

What these Idols need to be doing is to collaborate with other well-known songwriters

That’s what they’ve done. Check out the credits, Kris Allen, David Cook, Lee and Archie have had some of the same co-writers as Daughtry (and Daughtry himself). Radio hit maker Claude Kelly has worked with all of these guys, as has Grammy winner David Hodges. They’ve worked with people who have written hits for Adele, Carrie Underwood, Hot Chelle Rae, Lifehouse, Justin Bieber and others. Crystal is pretty much the only alum from the past few years who didn’t have any help writing her debut album.

Didn’t Lee get a video that was played on VH1? I remember the video and thought it was kind of cute, but unfortunately the song just wasn’t good enough to capture anybody’s attention.

I also think that radio still has a bias with American Idol contestents. A music purist is generally against American Idol. An American Idol is famous before he even does anything with music, so that puts even more pressure on them.

I just came home and heard Beautiful Like You still on the charts on the radio in my side of the world after its release a few months ago. If given the right promo and maybe not associated with AI, I think it has a good chance on the charts in US too.

This argument would make more sense, if Lee, Archie and the others weren’t co-writing their albums with multiple successful and established writers. I believe that Lee only had one song that he wrote by himself that made the album

Lee co-wrote all the songs on his album except one he did not have a hand in writing at all. He did not have a solo written song on the album.
http://www.mjsbigblog.com/lee-dewyze-live-it-up-track-listing-and-songwriting-credits.htm

I just came home and heard Beautiful Like You still on the charts on the radio in my side of the world after its release a few months ago. If given the right promo, I think it has a good chance on the charts in US too.

Unfortunately, that song is dead when it comes to the US market long ago.

Lee co-wrote all the songs on his album except one. He did not have a solo written song on the album.

That just makes my point. I see Toby Gad’s name a few times, and he has a few hits to his name, including Beyonce’s “If I Were a Boy”. He also co-wrote Kris Allen’s song The Truth, which shows that not every song from an established writer will be a hit. I also see Lindy Robbins, who co-wrote Hot Chelle Rae’s massive hit “Tonight Tonight”. We have Zac Malloy, who wrote Carrie’s number 1 song, Temporary Home, which is a song that was nominated for a Grammy.

Most of these names have written with every idol alum, even Adam.

Unfortunately, that song is dead when it comes to the US market long ago.

Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t think it was even given a chance on radio. You can’t say its dead if it was never given the chance to live.

I also see Lindy Robbins, who co-wrote Hot Chelle Rae’s massive hit “Tonight Tonight”.

Brian Mansfield said it Tonight Tonight had “the makings of one of the most annoying pop-rock anthems of the summer.” Maybe Lee’s single wasn’t annoying enough.

I really like Beautiful Like You and think it would have done better than SS if it had been the first single off the album. It seems to suit Lee much better imo. What is with RCA picking these lousy first singles? I’m afraid the same thing will happen to David Cook. I think Fade Into Me would have been a better first single than TLG but who knows how much support it will get now. Do they think “radio friendly” has to mean “bouncy and happy” whether it suits the artist or not? In fact if I never hear the term “radio friendly” again it will be too soon for me.

Lee was interviewed by WPLJ, I remember because I thought it was odd they didn’t spin his song even as a courtesy. RCA obviously set up the interview and as mentioned above, they are very Idol friendly. If they didn’t play the song its because they didn’t want to.

Brian Mansfield said it Tonight Tonight had “the makings of one of the most annoying pop-rock anthems of the summer.” Maybe Lee’s single wasn’t annoying enough.

I’ll take an annoying song that goes platinum and reaches top ten, that’s a lot better than what happened with Lee’s song.

Besides, here, http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2011-08-01-on-the-verge-hot-chelle-rae-nashville-tonight-tonight_n.htm, he called it the best pop/rock song of the summer, and VH1′s Jim Shearer called it the best pop/rock song of the year. Lee probably sold more records and singles than Hot Chelle Rae did with their first album, and his song charted higher, but Hot Chelle Rae had the support of their label and management, and that, plus a good song, lead to the success that the are seeing now.

Were you at that radio gig?

Yup, it’s just up the street from my house. And I’m a succor for brew pubs.

ETA: And I go to these things to validate my opinion of certain people (I’m an egotist in my own way) not to lend support or be a “fan”. Very few things surprise me…Susan Boyle’s early success was and still is a constant shock because I didn’t think people were so gullible. I haven’t missed the boat about many idols.

So if I understand the timeline right, he actually did get dropped very soon after the last finale. I know I’m not the only one who predicted just that.

Let’s be real, no one at RCA thought Lee had a chance, but it would’ve looked bad to drop or buy him out of his contract before naming a “successor.” So they provided him with the standard promo they were obligated to and let him sink or swim, though the outcome was inevitable.

I’ll take an annoying song that goes platinum and reaches top ten, that’s a lot better than what happened with Lee’s song.

I don’t know what you mean by you’ll take it. You mean, listen to it, and like it, or just respect the fact that it did well? I respect success, but it’s like saying, “I’ll take any novel that is a number one best seller over a novel that didn’t sell that much,” regardless of quality. I can’t really buy into that.

I don’t know what you mean by you’ll take it. You mean, listen to it, and like it, or just respect the fact that it did well? I respect success, but it’s like saying, “I’ll take any novel that is a number one best seller over a novel that didn’t sell that much.” regardless of quality. I can’t really buy into that.

I should have rephrased that. I like “Tonight Tonight”. I don’t think it’s annoying, that’s just one person’s opinion, and as I mention in the post above, even Mansfield admitted that it was the catchiest song of the summer.

What I mean is, I’d take a song that obviously connected with people, over one that people ignored. As I mentioned, Hot Chelle Rae had a tougher time than Lee did with their first album, and I believe they released two songs that didn’t go anywhere. Tonight Tonight struck a chord with people, and that’s something that every writer and singer should want.

responding to the following because it fits better here than in headlines…

Labels do have favorites or at the very least opinions on who they know will be successful & who will not.

I don’t get the meme that Idol winners (by virtue of their win) should be “entitled” to unfettered support by their label. Every winner has been turned over to a label, not because they are “special” or marketable but because they won. And sometimes, as early as the first sit down between label and Idolette it may become apparent that the singer just doesn’t have the “stuff” a label would normally look for…but they are contractually “stuck”.

I am sure that some winners have caused the labels to scurry like the dickens’ just to find anyway to market and support them. And since many Idolettes don’t have track records…labels may also be in for rude awakenings when they sign a finalist under the best of intentions.

For any recording contract to work there has to be a happy marriage…and sometimes the partners who entered into the contract just never seem to connect once the bloom is off the rose, and sometimes that can happen very very quickly.

I should have rephrased that. I like “Tonight Tonight”. I don’t think it’s annoying, that’s just one person’s opinion, and as I mention in the post above, even Mansfield admitted that it was the catchiest song of the summer.

What I mean is, I’d take a song that obviously connected with people, over one that people ignored. As I mentioned, Hot Chelle Rae had a tougher time than Lee did with their first album, and I believe they released two songs that didn’t go anywhere. Tonight Tonight struck a chord with people, and that’s something that every writer and singer should want.

Okay. I agree. My original comment was not meant all that seriously, though. “Maybe Lee’s song wasn’t annoying enough.” Just a little humor. Very little. :/

Anyhow, I’m happy this chapter of Lee, RCA and AI is closed. After the treatment they gave him, I would be happy if AI is never again associated with him. What he does from now on will be on his own and for his fans. He will continue to make music and his fans will continue to support him.

Whether he’s mega super star or mega failure hopefully should not be a headline concern anymore. He is happy, getting married to a beautiful girl and that is so much better than how many albums is he selling compared to the great this and that.

I really like Beautiful Like You and think it would have done better than SS if it had been the first single off the album.

I agree. I didn’t listen to SS until after I’d heard BLY (and became a fan) and I was like WTH??? were they thinking putting that on his album much less making it THE lead song. It seems like Lee caught every bad break possible on his AI tenure (Murphy’s Law). But like I say a few days ago, he certainly has a wider reach now than he had before Idol. Besides that, many Idols who were not as high profile as Lee are still making a good living from the opportunity of being on AI.

“This is the reason why Daughtry is so successful because he is an excellent songwriter. What these Idols need to be doing is to collaborate with other well-known songwriters or if you don’t have the talent, don’t even bother trying to write a song.”

With the kind of face CD had it when he was eliminated from the show, my thought was “the guy dreams big, he really thinks he’s better then others” and he has his kind of success. Well, I think Lee has never had any high expectations from the show except to take advantage of his opportunity and express himself in his own way. He’s botherd to have a try and come out with some music for his some fans, not bothered to be next CD. And he will have some new opportunities for his kind of talent, not everyone is “excellent songwriter”.

The only WPLJ interview I recall is the one done during Grammy week-way too late for SS. The interviewer really liked him and said he was a real musician-too bad DJs don’t make the decisions about what songs to play.
It’s all water under the bridge now-Lee seems happy and is working on something in Nashville at the moment. I’m glad Beautiful Like You is getting radioplay in Asia; Starworld TV has really been promoting him there, since his Asian Tour.

The only post season song I listed was the coronation songs. All the others were during idol. I watched them chart on Itunes as soon as they were released. The other top 10 contestants from Season 9 didn’t chart as high. So Lee and Crystal charted the highest numbers. Lee’s Hallelujah charted higher than Crystal’s Up to the Mountain.

Sorry. I misunderstood the original poster. I thought that they meant that Lee sold the most downloads for the season which is a claim that we cannot validate. I agree that he sold the most Idol tracks after he won.

I found it interesting that Javier wasn’t selling the most number of downloads prior to his win that week. Dia was. It was only after he won that his tracks surged ahead. Earlier in the season, he was selling a lot. I think knowing the iTunes numbers during the competition is very revealing, but it’s also why they don’t reveal them for Idol.

ronaldmascot says:
10/08/2011 at 10:42 am
America Idol is a singing show, it’s not a songwriter show. The audience doesn’t vote on these people’s original songs and yet contestants like Lee DeWyze think they are entitled to write their entire albums. Unfortunately, some of these winners are not very good songwriters. That’s why Lee flopped, he simply wasn’t a good enough songwriter to write such a high-profile release- and it’s a reason alot of these Idol contestants like David Cook and Archie are flopping- their songs aren’t great, yet they are being allowed to write them. They then blame poor sales on everything and everyone else but themselves. Adam Lambert will be the next Idol to flop because of this, he supposedly is writing most or nearly all of his next album. He’s a terrible songwriter, but has been hired to write a high-profile album, when it flops and it most certainly will- you’ll know why.

And I have heard original music by both David Cook and Lee Dewyze and loved it, in fact, some of the music that they did before Idol, with cowriters, I like just as much if not more than what they did post idol. And I’m not saying my opinion is any more valid than yours, because some people are going to like someones music and some aren’t.

If an artist wants to do their own songwriting, it is up to them, they know the risks. And I think that their songwriting skills are reflected in what they do on Idol, when they do their own arraingments to the point I could tell if I would like someone based on this.

Boyle’s early success was and still is a constant shock because I didn’t think people were so gullible.

I don’t think that her fans are “gullible” in the sense of being fooled or conned in some way. Susan’s backstory just resonated with the public, and her remaining fans really do love her singing. I think that she has a pretty, but unremarkable voice, and sometimes interprets songs in a cheesy, odd way, but it’s not like she can’t sing and is a fraud like Milli Vanilli. Of course, her backstory was the major reason for her massive, early success, but I’m not surprised that she still has fans who love her singing, even after the people who just felt sorry for her have gone away. This next release will have some original songs, so it will be interesting to see how Susan’s sales hold up at this stage of her career.

Anyhow, I’m happy this chapter of Lee, RCA and AI is closed. After the treatment they gave him, I would be happy if AI is never again associated with him.

They got him where he is today-if it weren’t for idol, nobody would know who he is. I would hope he doesn’t bite the hand that feeds him.

They got him where he is today-if it weren’t for idol, nobody would know who he is.

If it weren’t for the contestants they wouldn’t have a show.

They got him where he is today-if it weren’t for idol, nobody would know who he is.

If it weren’t for the contestants they wouldn’t have a show

^^^this^^^^ I think this is one of the reasons I thought each winner should be treated the same. Idol makes a bundle off these kids. And then when they win, it’s still about how much they can make off them.
Sigh, I know I know….it’s a business. Anyhoo..I know Lee will always be grateful for idol and the show and all it’s given him…even what we consider negatives can be useful to give definition to the tapestry of our lives. Lee will be ok.

I think this is one of the reasons I thought each winner should be treated the same. Idol makes a bundle off these kids. And then when they win, it’s still about how much they can make off them. Sigh, I know I know….it’s a business.

It’s good you notice this stuff. It would be lousy if everyone just thought the way the producers seem to think, about this.

Anyhoo..I know Lee will always be grateful for idol and the show and all it’s given him…even what we consider negatives can be
useful to give definition to the tapestry of our lives. Lee will be ok.

Lee is a good guy, I think he has a mature attitude towards all this. I’ll be watching to see what he accomplishes in the future and I wish him luck.

Currently Lee’s official website is still active but I guess it will be shut down once the updates to the sites happen. The website is owned by Sony. Has there been any talk about Lee creating another official site like what David A. did?

I’ve heard Lee’s songs in stores (you know when you are shopping at TJMaxx or something). He sounds great.

I’m glad he won Idol. :) I didn’t vote however because I was a big Aaron Kelly fan. But I think Lee deserved his title. He was a good winner. :)

I have also heard Lee’s songs at a store-and he sounds great. I am a big supporter-but never voted.

I do think that Lee is taking whatever good there was from the past (as in his experience with winning AI and being part of RCA) and moving forward. The big label affiliation works great if the fit is right. Otherwise, if they label is trying to make you into something you aren’t, the “promotion” may do more harm than good.

… if they label is trying to make you into something you aren’t, the “promotion” may do more harm than good.

I’m sorry, but if you don’t want to be made into something you’re “not,” why audition for a reality show, where the entire premise is that they’re plucking people out of obscurity and making them into pop stars?

The pretentiousness of this new brand of pseudo-indie singer-songwriter types auditioning for reality shows these days drives me insane. Like, no, you’re not being given a major record deal so you can record your likely terrible original music and “stay true to yourself.” All you are is a voice and a look and if you’re amenable, RCA/Jive/Sony/etc can turn you into something incredible. They should be salivating at the opportunity for quality A&R.

Like what was said in a previous thread Clive is just looking for a commercial singer not an artist. They want to get what they can out of them then move on to the next season. Those that shine or catch on they will develop.

I’m sorry, but if you don’t want to be made into something you’re “not,” why audition for a reality show, where the entire premise is that they’re plucking people out of obscurity and making them into pop stars?

The pretentiousness of this new brand of pseudo-indie singer-songwriter types auditioning for reality shows these days drives me insane. Like, no, you’re not being given a major record deal so you can record your likely terrible original music and “stay true to yourself.” All you are is a voice and a look and if you’re amenable, RCA/Jive/Sony/etc can turn you into something incredible. They should be salivating at the opportunity for quality A&R.

Quoted for truth. The problem is, Idol’s TPTB don’t get it that Idol is not the right platform to discover singer/songwriters. Also, during seasons 7-9 era there was a lot of talk from the judges about “artistry” and “showing who you are as an artist” on the show. This crap didn’t exactly help the egos of contestants. Suddenly they were immediately called artists, even before they recorded one original song.

Quoted for truth. The problem is, Idol’s TPTB don’t get it that Idol is not the right platform to discover singer/songwriters. Also, during seasons 7-9 era there was a lot of talk from the judges about “artistry” and “showing who you are as an artist” on the show. This crap didn’t exactly help the egos of contestants. Suddenly they were immediately called artists, even before they recorded one original song.

I admit in a competition environment, I’m drawn to singer/songwriters who does their own arrangement. I like ppl who do things differently or are willing to take risk to show that they are different i.e. Danny Gokey’s Dream On. If everyone starts singing perfect like Mariah Carey or Celine Dion or Carrie Underwood (I don’t own a single of her album), it becomes boring for me. I’m out. Not my cuppa.

The problem is, Idol’s TPTB don’t get it that Idol is not the right platform to discover singer/songwriters.

I was going to write something to this effect, but someone beat me to it. I guess the moral of the story is if you are a David Cook/Kris Allen/Lee Dewyze, don’t bother with auditioning for this show, as Idol wants you only for variety on TV and if you win, be prepared to be pigeon holed into the label’s plans for you to be a pop star. It’s fine for those who accept that fate, but if it isn’t really who they are, the end result can be miserable for all involved. I agree with JennyL, as I am not interested in the people she has mentioned.

So if Lee had not been involved in writing songs for his album and was willing to accept what the label had in mind for him, do you think the end result would have been different?

The pretentiousness of this new brand of pseudo-indie singer-songwriter types auditioning for reality shows these days drives me insane. Like, no, you’re not being given a major record deal so you can record your likely terrible original music and “stay true to yourself.” All you are is a voice and a look and if you’re amenable, RCA/Jive/Sony/etc can turn you into something incredible. They should be salivating at the opportunity for quality A&R.

Chris Daughtry did alright recording his “likely terrible original music” and “stay[ing] true to [him]self”. I imagine some of the singer/songwriters who came after Chris felt they had the writing skills that would give them the same opportunity.

Again, not exactly a fan of Lee, but all this talk about song writing makes me wonder, what exactly is a a good song writer these days…the people who write for Bieber and Rihanna, The Black Eye Peas, Katy Perry, Bruno Mars? Having pop hits on your resume doesn’t exactly equate to being a good song writer. I think most of pop music these days is super generic and the lyrics and music aren’t anything special.

So if Lee had not been involved in writing songs for his album and was willing to accept what the label had in mind for him, do you think the end result would have been different?

The problem with Lee is, he is who he is. He has very little potential to be anything other but an indie singer/songwriter.

Contestants like Lee should never make it into the AI semifinals. Actually, season 9′s TOP 12 should never get into TOP 24 in the first place. I think there were a few semifinalists with potential, but they were voted off. Season 9′s casting was atrocious.

Contestants like Lee should never make it into the AI semifinals.

Should contestants like Casey Abrams and Jacob Lusk make it into the AI semifinals? Do they have the potential to be anything but niche artists?

Should contestants like Casey Abrams and Jacob Lusk make it into the AI semifinals? Do they have the potential to be anything but niche artists?

Nope, those two have no potential either. Season 10 had the country teens and I think Haley could do something with good A&R. The others were cast just for the show. Mostly good looking kids and good singers, but nothing more.

Lee should never apologize for being who he is. Even if he had compromised, it’s his decision and he has more facts than we do to make any choice he deems right for him. To even try out for idol was something he at first resisted, but he did, he worked hard, we voted, he won. I don’t really need the backstories, but I do like the idea of someone getting the chance to make their dreams come true. If the show needs to step on the dream to make it fit their mold, I resent that, and I’m glad Lee is a hardworking, talented, and “knows who he is” kind of guy. I’m not going to apologize for voting for him, or buying his music, or being his fan. I’m not going to let people classify me into some demographic nonsense, even if it’s true!! All I’m saying is what is in the past is done, and I’m glad things happened because to change one thing, might change outcome. Btw, Lee says that all the time.. Anyhow, Lee fan here, in case you didn’t get that part.

What exactly is a a good song writer these days?

All a matter of personal taste.

I’m sorry, but if you don’t want to be made into something you’re “not,” why audition for a reality show, where the entire premise is that they’re plucking people out of obscurity and making them into pop stars?

Explain to me how they’re turning Scotty McCreery into a pop star. He’s country. Also, how have they made him into something he’s not? They seem to be working with who he is. His voice, look, taste in music, beliefs, whatever.

Most of the people who’ve come from Idol haven’t been transformed into anything different. Daughtry, Kelly C., Adam, etc.

The pretentiousness of this new brand of pseudo-indie singer-songwriter types auditioning for reality shows these days drives me insane. Like, no, you’re not being given a major record deal so you can record your likely terrible original music and “stay true to yourself.” All you are is a voice and a look and if you’re amenable, RCA/Jive/Sony/etc can turn you into something incredible. They should be salivating at the opportunity for quality A&R.

I guess very few of them have been amenable because there isn’t a very long list of “incredible” despite ten years of Idol.

I have no proof but it doesn’t seem to me that the label had any intention of tying to turn Lee into a pop sensation. That would be ridiculous, and RCA is probably not (at least not totally) ridiculous.

If you want a pop sensation, you don’t take someone who is not that type and never will be, and try to turn him into one. You take someone who appears to be a good bet at being one, and work with that person to get him to where he should be. I can’t prove that but it’s common sense.

All I know is that Lee is the only singer from American Idol whose music I follow and have bought. For whatever reason his songs did not get airplay but everyone who I have had listen to him loves the music. Maybe at some point he will write and sing a song that millions of people will hear and love- but if not then there are all of us who go to every concert we can and buy every bit of music we can. Since he loves what he does that means that in whatever way he can he will keep making music and we will keep being his fans.

I’m sorry, but if you don’t want to be made into something you’re “not,” why audition for a reality show, where the entire premise is that they’re plucking people out of obscurity and making them into pop stars?

The pretentiousness of this new brand of pseudo-indie singer-songwriter types auditioning for reality shows these days drives me insane. Like, no, you’re not being given a major record deal so you can record your likely terrible original music and “stay true to yourself.” All you are is a voice and a look and if you’re amenable, RCA/Jive/Sony/etc can turn you into something incredible. They should be salivating at the opportunity for quality A&R.

The problem I have with this thinking is that radio used to break new music and new artists and that is not the case today. If you want to get attention outside your local venues, you almost have to audition for these shows. The top ten radio stations in the nation won’t play a record until it’s already made its mark elsewhere. There aren’t that many alternatives for a new artist in any genre.

If Idol isn’t going to support every genre, then the producers should limit the auditions to wannabe pop stars. But they don’t so they should support the winner no matter what genre of music that winner pursues.

But they don’t so they should support the winner no matter what genre of music that winner pursues.

This is exactly what I’ve been saying. I hope Idol has learned its lesson by now that if you let people on the show who may not be what they had in mind as a winner, one of those people may just win. Idol is unprepared to accomodate certain types of artists. They just cannot have it both ways. Lee parting ways with RCA looks bad for a show that pretends to welcome creativity in arranging covers and writing songs and then does nothing to support that type of artist. And, yes, I say “parting ways” as opposed to “being dropped,” because no one but Lee and the RCA team knows the true story.