Kris Allen and And RCA Records Part Ways

Welp. Can’t say I’m surprised by this news, but American Idol season eight winner Kris Allen is no longer with RCA Records, a label rep confirms to The Hollywood Reporter.

Signed to the Sony Music subsidiary immediately after his 2009 victory over runner-up Adam Lambert, Allen released his self-titled debut album in November of that year. Moving over 80,000 units its first week out, it charted at No. 11 on the Billboard 200 and, buoyed by the single “Live Like We’re Dying,” went on to sell over 346,000 copies.

His follow-up, Thank You Camellia, was released in May 2012 and debuted at No. 26 on the album chart with first-week sales of 15,622, according to Nielsen SoundScan. Although the first single, “The Vision of Love,” failed to gain momentum, Allen maintained visibility via his always inventive covers.

In September, Allen revealed that he and 19 Entertainment had parted ways and he signed with new management, Pearl Group Entertainment, which counts Chris Daughtry as a client.

The only Idols who remain on Sony labels are Kelly Clarkson, Fantasia, Carrie Underwood, Chris Daughtry, Jordin Sparks, Casey James and Adam Lambert. Ahead of Season 10, 19 Entertainment signed a contract with Universal Music Group to release Idol music.  Season 10 Idol, Pia Toscano, was dropped from that label after releasing an unsuccessful single.

Via the Hollywood Reporter

UPDATE: Kris Allen tweets a statement:

I wanted to let everyone know that RCA and I have decided to split ways. I thank them so much for everything that they did for me. There are so many people there that contributed to my becoming the artist that I am and I will miss them all.. In saying that, I am really excited about what is ahead. The path has never been clearer to me. I love what I do and I will never stop. So, to my amazing fans, thank you so much for everything so far but things are only gonna get more fun. I promise.

  • koshka

    bummer. 

  • Valentin432

    Not surprising.
    Season 7-8-9 winners have all parted ways with their label.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/5WIQPFXDKN3VQPEVL347RUSZ64 Sher

    That sucks for Kris.  He always seems like a nice guy.

  • http://twitter.com/blkeener Brittany Keener

    The inevitable, I suppose. :(

    On the bright side, he’s got new management who seems to be working hard putting together a fall tour for him. Label-less but not gone. 

  • a445

    hard to be surprised at this point

  • http://twitter.com/SingandBreak SingAndBreak

    It’s a pity, Kris is really a great musician, but maybe he’ll do better with an indie label which actually cares about his music and his style and doesn’t want to modell him into Popstar 121…

  • Garrett Clayman

    really upset consider how great Thank You Camilla is, thought it was tug at the hipster crowd. oh well. maybe p2 will have better luck (doubtful) #agirlbetterwinseason12

  • thirdtime

    Expected…but still sad.

  • wordnerdarchie

    The writing was on the wall for Kris when we saw David Cook leaving the label after making them millions and his comments about the large Idol contract.  The label wants to make money and lots of it…. if you don’t have a platinum single or 2 & a CD that at least goes gold, I don’t think they see any use in keeping an idol alumni.  Things don’t look good for some others still signed with RCA.

    ETA: And as pointed out on the other thread, some might have difficulty that are currently signed with Interscope. Dark days ahead, my friends.

  • Mateja Praznik

    Daughtry, Fantasia and Jennifer Hudson are also with RCA.

  • Valarie

    What about Chris Daughtry? Did he part ways with RCA?

    Who’s next? Kelly and Carrie are obviously safe. The others, not so much.

  • curly_yenta

    Too bad for Kris, but he’s got to grab his boot straps now and rethink his music career. Time to separate the boys from the men.

    I think with hard work and determination anything is possible for him.  His career is in his own hands now.

  • elliegrll

    This isn’t surprising or even upsetting.  I got upset a few years ago, when no one took advantage of the popularity of LLWD, and then I became sad, but at some point this outcome just became logical.  If I could see that, I don’t know why, when given a chance at a second album, nothing more was done to try and connect with AI fans and potential fans well in advance of the release of TYC.

    When Kris was quoted in the piece that some online magazine did on former idols, and he said that he didn’t think that he would be dropped, and even if he were that he’d built up a fanbase that would support his career, I knew that his days with RCA were numbered.  There’s no way that anyone could look at how he drew on the road during his headlining tours, and how much he sold of his first album, and come to the conclusion that his record contract was secure, or that he had built up a solid fanbase.  Kris is sweet and incredibly talented, but the way that he’s approached his career has left a lot to be desired.  Not that it’s all his fault, it’s not like he understood the business, or like he had competent management.

  • SullyD

    This sucks, his album is really good. He’s very talented and I’m looking forward to hearing what he puts out one way or another.

  • shell29

    After seeing Cook and Kellie Pickler get dropped it seemed clear that RCA wasn’t going to waste any time dropping Idols who didn’t continue to produce the desired results.  It’s too bad Kris only got one single.  I thought they’d at least release a second one first before dropping him but the writing was on the wall I suppose.

    I guess his omission on that 19R website wasn’t an oversight after all?

  • mjsbigblog

     Jennifer was not signed by 19R, though so she really does not count.

  • Mateja Praznik

    Surprisingly, RCA posted Kris’s cover of “We are young” today on their official website.

  • wordnerdarchie

    I read somewhere that the RCA label pared back it’s work force by almost 75% in the last few years.  Things might be a lot worse at that label than we realize.

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    Well, they still want to sell his album made under their label. The same with all the others.

  • tigervixxxen

    So that listing on 19’s website really was worthwhile information and that it was true it’s unlikely RCA would remain without 19 Recordings. Also that unfortunately the single talk was all a ruse.

    Not unexpected news but I wish Kris and all the Idols well. It’s such a shame the premise of the show and the “pop superstar” claim sets them up for this time and time again. My hope is that a better model is figured out for these artists so they can realistically support a career post show. But good for Kris and the other Idols to keep plugging away with shows and making music, that’s what’s important.

  • wordnerdarchie

    They could still be trying to get some visibility for Kris in order to get a few more sales.

  • elliegrll

    I don’t think that selling a certain amount is an issue, since there are people signed to RCA who can be counted on to sell around 300K albums or so, and no more.  But the point is that those people have found their audience, have a way to reach that audience, and the label knows that they will sell those 300K albums.  

    With Kris, David, and pretty much every other idol alum, they never found an audience beyond their AI fans, and those AI fans can’t be counted on for stable album sales.  And after the first album, they didn’t stand a strong shot at getting their music played on the radio, and without that, there was no way for them to reach new consumers.

  • Pippygirl

    I wouldn’t have been surprised except that we just heard from Kris that a second single was going to be released. I don’t get what that was all about.
    Anyway I agree that his career has not been handled well (mostly not his fault but some of it is). It’s a little hard to believe that a great singer/musician/songwriter who is extremely likeable and attractive could not find success with a major label, but I guess that’s RCA for you.
    Now it’s time for Kris to step up and determine what kind of career he wants to have. Leaving 19 for new management is a giant step in the right direction in my opinion (it’s too bad he couldn’t do it earlier). Hopefully he had made some good connections in the industry over the past few years who will be helpful to him in moving forward.
     

  • elliegrll

    It’s more like whoever posts things on twitter and the website are not the same people who make the decisions about when an artist will be released.  They wouldn’t be the first to know this information, and they are probably just low level interns.

  • http://twitter.com/LinMi2 Linda

    “The only Idols who remain on Sony labels are Chris Daughtry, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Adam Lambert and Jordin Sparks.”
     
    CaseyJ is also on a Sony label… Columbia Nashville.
     

    Very sad for Kris. Hope he finds another label.

  • jlurksacto

    “And another  one bits the dust!”

  • wordnerdarchie

    Those other artists selling around 300k don’t have advances of 500k and up and the 19R contract either.  That’s the albatross.

  • isb77

    And we just got an email from RCA/Kris: 
    http://m.fans.sonymusicemail.com/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=da83a6f805e2b9d9ee 

    and RCA posted about the Faith / We are Young mashup: http://www.rcarecords.com/news/kris-allen-mashes-we-are-young

    They have a weird sense of timing.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    I don’t think that selling a certain amount is an issue, since there are people signed to RCA who can be counted on to sell around 300K albums or so, and no more.  But the point is that those people have found their audience, have a way to reach that audience, and the label knows that they will sell those 300K albums.  

    Oh, selling a certain amount absolutely matters. Idol winners get massive advances. By making a ton of wildly optimistic assumptions about costs, I can force a spreadsheet to cough up a breakeven point of 350,000 album sales for Idol winners without also spitting up a hairball, but 500,000 is probably a lot closer to realistic (and I wouldn’t be shocked at being told it was low). And  labels usually hand out that kind of big money to acts who can be counted on to generate lots of profits, not to ones who will squeak to breakeven.

    I’ve been among those who’ve speculated about what would happen if an Idol winner volunteered to negotiate down the advances in return for getting to stay with the label under more realistic expectations… but it sure looks if none of them have talked both the label and 19R into it.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “With Kris, David, and pretty much every other idol alum, they never
    found an audience beyond their AI fans, and those AI fans can’t be
    counted on for stable album sales.”

    This has always been the key for any Idol to establish themselves beyond the show. The fact that so few have been successful in doing so just emphasizes how difficult this is.

    ETA: wordnerdarchie wrote:
    “Those selling around 300k don’t have advances of 500k and up and the 19R contract, either. That’s the albatross.”

    This makes it even more difficult for winners to be successful beyond their debut album.

  • girlygirltoo

    Unsurprising, but still a bit of a bummer. His new management seems to be doing a good job helping him book shows for the fall, and Kris did say a couple weeks ago that he is releasing a new single, so it will be interesting to see if they have known about this for weeks and already have a plan for going forward.

    PS – Someone should let whoever runs RCA Records website in on the news though — they just posted Kris’ Faith/We Are Young mash-up on their website.

  • http://twitter.com/TylerWV TylerWV

    Kris and Picklers albums are really very good.  Its a shame the label couldnt put some more push into them. 

  • tigervixxxen

    Or those first singles get on the radio due to the hype and push from the euphoric end to the show and massive media exposure. When that buzz vanishes the Idols are left holding the bag and forced to push a product radio won’t support because without the buzz they wouldn’t have been interested in the first place. Without radio spinning songs 10x a day product doesn’t get moved. It’s a set up to leave these Idols with no foundation, no support from the label because they are expected to meet the large advances solely due to their popularity from the show plus the ever diminishing returns from the declining popularity and perception of the show is just a set up looking for failure.

  • elliegrll

    This is true, but I’d bet the labels would be more patient, and would try to rework things, if the artist showed that they had a stable audience, and a way to reach the people who like the music, and would be willing to pay for it.

    Linda said: The only Idols who remain on Sony labels are Chris Daughtry, Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Adam Lambert and Jordin Sparks.

    Fantasia and Jennifer Hudson are with RCA, even though, as MJ said, Jennifer didn’t sign with them through 19R.

  • irockhard

    The least safe out of those still at Sony: Adam. I can’t see Trespassing becoming a hit, and if it also flops like BTIKM & NCOE did, then there’s really nothing more RCA can do for Adam. Adam needs to get to the 300k mark by the time of Trespassing’s one year anniversary of it’s release or else he’s toast.

  • irockhard

    ITA. I think Kris should focus on songwriting, that’s where his strength really lies. If he manages to write hits for other artists he’ll be able to make enough to fund his own music production and touring on the side and be his own boss.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shelby.walker.5011 Shelby Walker

    Adam and/or Jordin are next. 

  • shell29

    Kelly and Carrie are obviously safe.

    I would include Fantasia in that list as well.  She has sold very well for an R&B artist with each of her subsequent albums, has more than a few hit singles under her belt and is a Grammy winner.  I can’t see them dropping her (or JHud) anytime soon.

  • irockhard

    I get what you’re saying, Jennifer is one of the few alums who managed to score a “regular” record deal without 19R interference.

  • HopeForMusic

    Not unexpected, but still unfortunate.  I’ve seen it mentioned here that the biggest benefit of being signed to a major level is their ability to get radio play.  Since that hasn’t seemed to be the case with Idols recently, wouldn’t a smaller, more creative thinking label be almost as good now?

    I don’t know the business, and would love if someone can tell me who owns the rights to TYC and the songs on it.  Do these songs remain forever unheard by most of the world, or can they be marketed again by another label?  I have no doubt that Kris is more than capable of creating more excellent music, but it would be sad for this to be the very end for TYC.  I honestly don’t know what RCA was thinking when they released TYC with little to no visibility for Kris and no promotion for the CD, which leads to my next question, why did they even bother with CD #2?

  • yksask

     He has a long way too go to achieve those numbers.

  • mjsbigblog

     After Season 3, Idol had ZERO interest in signing Jennifer to a contract.

  • yksask

     Does she sell albums?

  • parsenip

    90% of the music I buy is produced by artists without a major label, and that percentage apparently just went up a little today.  What a racket.  SMH.

  • irockhard

    Perhaps he can self release a new single? How much red tape is involved where that’s concerned, unless it’s not off TYC? IIRC the single David Cook self released wasn’t on TLM, is that right?

  • fantoo1

    I think Daughtry is safe too. He isn’t selling like he used to, but his recent album went Gold.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that with Adam, RCA would take into account his commercial success internationally, and that may save him from being dropped. I always thought that Adam would be more successful internationally than domestically, and perhaps, if he has sufficient international success, he will stay on the RCA roster.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shelby.walker.5011 Shelby Walker

    Ya they suddenly got interested when she started getting nominated and winning major movie awards like the Golden Globes, People’s choice and the Oscar. 

    Too bad her music career went nowhere. 

  • elliegrll

    I don’t know the business, and would love if someone can tell me who owns the rights to TYC and the songs on it.  Do these songs remain forever unheard by most of the world, or can they be marketed again by another label?  I have no doubt that Kris is more than capable of creating more excellent music, but it would be sad for this to be the very end for TYC.  I honestly don’t know what RCA was thinking when they released TYC with little to no visibility for Kris and no promotion for the CD, which leads to my next question, why did they even bother with CD #2?

    The writers and publishers own the songs, but the master recordings belong to the label, since they paid for them.  In this case, that might be 19 instead of RCA, since the music was just licensed to RCA.

    I’m going to defend RCA, it was there job to get airplay for TVOL, it was managements job to get Kris some visibility so that it would be easier to get the airplay, and help people connect him with the song.

    I think that Kris earned a second cd because he was able to vocally sell LLWD, and someone at RCA believed that he is marketable.  They may have thought that since LLWD was one of the top 5 Hot AC songs of 2010 that it would have been easier for them to get stations to play TVOL, but it wasn’t.  

    I think the problem has always been that the label, Kris, and management needed to work together.  Nobody is going to be successful if one or two of these components are working, but the third one isn’t.  There is very little that RCA could do if radio was unwilling to play Kris’ music, and if Kris wasn’t getting the exposure that he needed to connect with people outside of the AI bubble.

  • irockhard

    That’s true, her big break came years later with Dream Girls, sometimes not being picked up immediately can be a blessing in disguise.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shelby.walker.5011 Shelby Walker

    David A. had a lot of success internationally, especially in Indonesia and the Phillipines but they still dropped him.

  • irockhard

    Yeah Jordin might not be safe either.

  • MissMyEm

    If they did part ways, evidently the people who tweet and put info on their website haven’t gotten the memo and if they did part ways, it’s RCA’s loss, not Kris’.   If they can’t spot a talent and keep the dreck that they have…and there is a lot of dreck on their label, then Kris is better off. And for all we know…it could have been Kris’ decision. Perhaps he already found another label and that’s why he spoke about not knowing when a new single would be out. It took a few months to find out about his new management, considering his contract was up (to the best of my knowledge) at the end of May….but we eventually heard. So it’s possible there already is a new label and we just haven’t heard.

    RCA never did right by Kris. I don’t believe he only sold 15,000 CDs. There are nearly 200,000 people in Little Rock. I can’t believe no one bought the CD. I’ve heard stories of companies scanning CDs for other artists when another artist sells to boost the other artist. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn this happened.

    Hopefully Stirling will help find him a label.   He seems to be doing a good job.  Even MYFM in L.A. has put the mashup on their station.   Thought I’d have a coronary when I heard that.

  • nekola

    Sigh. Well this was to be expected, I suppose. TYC is really a strong album from the songwriting to the production. But as much as I love the album, I’ve always wondered if it would be enough to attract a wider audience. Which goes to show you that no matter how strong the material, you need to have visibility and a solid marketing/pr plan — especially in Pop music — to sustain a career.

    I got upset a few years ago, when no one took advantage of the popularity of LLWD, and then I became sad, but at some point this outcome just became logical.

    ITA. I could write a dissertation on the missteps and missed opportunities from the 19 managment, Jive, RCA and Kris himself starting from May 20, 2009.

    Too bad for Kris, but he’s got to grab his boot straps now and rethink his music career. Time to separate the boys from the men.
    I think with hard work and determination anything is possible for him.  His career is in his own hands now.

    Agreed. I think Kris should evaluate what he wants out of his music career and develop a plan to achieve it. Also, as much as I love his voice and his live performances, maybe he should use this opportunity to concentrate on his songwriting and even producing to get a stronger foothold in the industry before getting into another recording contract.

  • elliegrll

    Adam isn’t selling a lot outside of the country.  I think that with him they would look at whether or not he’s able to get airplay, Pop PDs may not play his music, but he may have made some inroads at Hot AC.  And they will look at the fact that even though all of the media attention that he gets hasn’t helped the the sales of his current album or singles, he still gets that attention, so maybe with the right song he will still be able to find an audience.

  • irockhard

    Yeah I doubt he will get there in time.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “I honestly don’t know what RCA was thinking when they released TYC with
    little to no visibility for Kris and no promotion for the CD, which
    leads to my next question, why did they even bother with CD #2?”

    I’m sure that presales for TYC affected the extent of promotion that Kris would get, as RCA probably realized very early on that TYC wasn’t going to come close to reaching the kind of minimum sales necessary for them to break even. As elliegirl wrote, all of the signs indicated that Kris had not reached beyond his Idol fanbase to establish himself with the non-Idol public.

  • irockhard

    JHud? I Remember Me sold almost 400k so IMO she’s safe at least for now, I believe the standard minimum for majors is 300k.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I wasn’t aware of that. I assume that you mean single and CD sales. Do you have a source for that information?

  • girlygirltoo

    If I were any ex-Idol other than Kelly or Carrie signed to RCA, I wouldn’t be feeling too comfortable right now. Those are the only two who are really selling. Everyone else’s sales — including Fantasia’s and Daughtry’s — have dropped off in recent years. J-Hud has never been a big album seller, and RCA doesn’t make money off her Weight Watcher commercials or her movie roles.

  • Chicagolaw

    Well, that’s a bummer. But, it seems like he has good management and might even be happier as an Indie.

  • irockhard

    Of late his international sales are no better than his domestic sales. Every little bit counts, let’s hope he gets there in time. I doubt it but he has a shot, not a very good shot but a shot at least.

  • wordnerdarchie

    David Cook’s self released single was done without any ties to RCA.  It was written by David and his friend Daniel James and Andy Skib (bandmate/friend) long after TLM CD release  and album promo was finished.

  • girlygirltoo

    Adam isn’t selling nearly as well overseas with this album as he did with FYE, though. RCA has put a lot of money into promoting him and if they aren’t getting a real return on that investment, he could be in trouble, too.

  • Incipit

    Those other artists selling around 300k don’t have advances of 500k and up and the 19R contract either.  That’s the albatross.

    Not a surprise that Kris and RCA have parted ways, as many posters have already said. And, not a minor tragedy either, but certainly a challenge. The landscape of the music industry continues to shift, and artists like Kris continue to fall through the cracks.  And Idol is still talking about a Superstar, while the ironclad label contract still remains front loaded, and the sales climate doesn’t support expectations.

    There seem to be a lot of ‘moving parts’ that aren’t working properly, starting with the Albatross, the Corporate stranglehold on radio play, the “heavy” Label contracts, and Idol Management contracts artists are locked into, whether they are doing a targeted, or even competent job for the individual artist or not, (mostly not). When even observers can see the holes in the fabric, chopping the RCA workforce and consolidating labels while execs play musical chairs hasn’t made an appreciable difference in the outcomes for the artists. IDK if it helped out RCA’s bottom line – but I would suggest that ‘is’ their primary concern, along with the Quick Buck…not any Collateral Damage.

    It remains to be seen if Interscope can handle things any better with Idol contestants; they appear to be downsizing their obligations to the artists, we don’t know if there is an adjustment in the artists’ obligations to them.

    But the show will continue to blow smoke, no matter what the realities are.

    IMO. Of Course.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “If they did part ways, evidently the people who tweet and put info on
    their website haven’t gotten the memo and if they did part ways, it’s
    RCA’s loss, not Kris’.   If they can’t spot a talent and keep the dreck
    that they have…and there is a lot of dreck on their label, then Kris
    is better off.”

    Ultimately, the labels are a business and artists needs to make a profit for their labels to maintain their recording contracts. I rarely think that an artist if “better off” without a major label contract and all of the promotional opportunities that come with it. And maybe some artists aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, but if they are making a profit for their labels, I can see why they are retained and artists like Kris are dropped.

  • curly_yenta

    Anyone who depends on music sales to sustain a long term career in the biziness is in serious delusional trouble.  Better start looking down other roads to earn a living, cuz the pop music world is short term, volatile and fickle, that’s IF you ever make it there to begin with.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    This is true, but I’d bet the labels would be more patient, and would try to rework things, if the artist showed that they had a stable audience, and a way to reach the people who like the music, and would be willing to pay for it.

    Y’know, I’m increasingly convinced that to pull this off today, it’s necessary to come into Idol with a strategy for attracting a radio-listening, music-buying audience — and that strategy has to go beyond establishing musical identity into some kind of active outreach. 

    Colton Dixon’s Twitter-fan campaign early in Idol was aimed at Christian youth ministries, not at Idol voters. Showing he could attract young adult listeners has got to be a selling point for him with CCM, as that’s a difficult age for ministry, and CCM artists tend to run a bit older and thus less “relatable” for teens. Sure, Twitter followers != album sales. But he got the positive attention of enough genre-specific fans that the gatekeepers should be eager to welcome him and help him get more, similar fans. (Of course, we still don’t know if it’ll work.)

    He had the advantage of 10 seasons of alumni to study, plus a preferred niche where a workable strategy was findable. But I’m not sure the typical contestant even realizes that the need for long-term strategy or how many little bumps TPTB can put in the road of implementing a strategy that’s about the music and not about Idol.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Adam isn’t selling a lot outside of the country.”

    Is there a source for this information?

  • irockhard

    Well at least she has Hollywood to fall back on which is just as lucrative. TBH I prefer her as an actress than as a recording artist. She’s a fantastic singer but her music is nothing special.

  • EmmaCT

    No one can sell without promotion. There was virtually none for TYC and Vision of Love. TYC is an excellent album with a handful of potential commercial hits – they need to be marketed. So not sure if it was management, or label, or both. Kris is wildly talented – and sometimes hard knocks make for a stronger, better artist. Can’t wait for the next chapter –

  • mjsbigblog

    Too bad her music career went nowhere.

    NOT TRUE. Just like Fantasia, Jennifer Hudson has had hits on urban radio. She is in no danger of being dropped any time soon

  • Valarie

    RCA owns the recordings of Kris’ songs. That is all. DefLeppard just re-recorded all of their old hits as a way around that same obstacle. There is nothing to stop Kris from re-recording his songs at some point in the future. He is great at changing songs. Thank goodness Sony doesn’t own his publishing rights. He won’t have to pay Sony to perform those songs in concert.

  • girlygirltoo

    I don’t think there’s a standard minimum. It depends on how much the album cost to produce, how much money they spend on promotion, etc. You can make money on albums that sell less than 200K or you can lose money on albums that go platinum, depending on the costs associated with producing and marketing it.

  • shell29

    I don’t think the international sales for Trespassing (whatever they may be at this point) are going to be enough to for Adam to keep his deal with RCA.  To be honest, I’m a little bit surprised he’s even getting a third single after the first two failed.  Trespassing (the single) is going to have to be a smash hit (and soon) to save this album IMO. 

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    Everyone else’s sales — including Fantasia’s and Daughtry’s — have dropped off in recent years.

    Eh, Fantasia took a normal sophomore Idol drop to her second album, but her third album’s sales are only ~13% lower than for album #2. That’s less than the industry-wide decline in sales in those four years. She also gets good radio play in her home format, so she’s safe.

    Daughtry’s coming from such high original numbers that he has room for a weak album as long as he arrests the decline on the next one.

  • hellomusicgirl

    David A. had a lot of success internationally, especially in Indonesia and the Phillipines but they still dropped him.

    Jive offered David a deal to continue with them after his 3 album contract was up. Of course, we have no idea what the details of that deal were.

    There clearly were no bridges burned because Sony Music still distributes his albums in Asia. Not as an import, but manufactures and distributes them with the Sony imprint. BEGIN has been released in the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong. All locally by Sony.

    Its my hope, for all the Idols sake, that this means labels on loosening up on the restrictions of how they’ll work with artists. Even if you’re not signed to an exclusive contract with a label, having their powers of distribution is a very important thing.

  • elliegrll

    So you buy the albums of everyone who is from your hometown?  If I don’t like the music and follow the artist, there’s no way that I would know that we are from the same town, or that they are about to release music.  And liking the music is going to be the deciding factor in whether or not I spend my money.

  • irockhard

    I thought so, thanks for confirming.

  • shell29

    Fantasia and Jennifer don’t have anything to worry about (right now) as far as their record deals go.  Fantasia’s sales obviously aren’t anywhere near the sales of her debut but her subsequent albums have both gone Gold.   Jennifer’s sales are respectable for an R&B artist even if they’re not spectacular.  They’re OK for now.

  • parsenip

    There seem to be a lot of ‘moving parts’ that aren’t working properly, starting with the Albatross, the Corporate stranglehold on radio play.

    And there’s the crux of the biscuit.  I don’t think there can even be a conversation about who is marketable or not or whose music is good or sucks, blahblahblah, based on sales when 70% of airplay is controlled by 2 corporations.  Who is deserving of attention or a wider audience barely seems a factor in what gets pushed from my persepective.  

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    I’ve heard stories of companies scanning CDs for other artists when another artist sells to boost the other artist. 

    I’d guess these stories came from people who wouldn’t recognize terms like “supply chain management.” If the check-out clerk doesn’t scan the correct album, this will mess up the retailer’s inventory management system. A large retailer simply isn’t going to do it, and any lone-wolf employee who tries it won’t get away with it for long.

  • irockhard

    Well Interscope already dropped Pia but her situation was different. I’m not confident about Haley as she is also tied to the Albatross.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DY5236XYY2SBL7EJNTK5ROIGMA Madred

    Nope. Haley is safe for now. Interscope dropped a bunch of artists today and unveiled a new website. Haley is still signed. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Right. So Archie still has a connection to SONY in distributing his album in Asia. It sounds like that arrangement is working out well for him.

  • Truthiness2U

    Add me to the chorus of those who expected it, but still think it’s sucks.

    Well I wish the best for Kris. Reading about his getting new management, is a good first step. I hope they can find a way for him to get his music out there, and of course, I hope the next album will do well. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    It appears that Adam’s international commercial success with his sophomore album and singles is a lot less than his debut CD/singles, which isn’t a good sign. Nevertheless, RCA seems to be very supportive of him. It will be interesting to see what kind of support Trespassing gets (radioplay, promotional appearances, video, etc.). 

  • tigervixxxen

    An artist isn’t going to get promotion if there is no buzz. There is no budget for big promo off of low expected sales and gatekeepers who book the big promo are not interested. After 6-12 months off of Idol that buzz dries up. Radio and the industry are not interested unless something else drums up the buzz. Time and time again we have seen that just doesn’t happen. The Idol buzz used to be worth more and last longer, it’s an even steeper hill to climb now.

  • steph6449

    Unfortunate for Kris in the short run but I think there is just a lot of pressure for quick results on those from the previous AI seasons that had the very expensive contracts at a time the sales market was becoming much more challenging. 

    Even re-negotiating has to be a challenge for the artists and labels to stay in synch and see mutual advantage to continuing to work together — plus any artistic issues that seem to be common for AI alums putting out original music. Adam is hanging in there so far from that era of contracts, but it won’t amaze me at some point if he winds up looking for an alternate label arrangement as well.

  • irockhard

    Fantasia’s debut was a long time ago, the music biz has totally changed since then, she’ll probably never match her debut sales again and I’m sure her label is well aware of this.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    But did David sell many albums in Indonesia? There are people who can fill arenas and stadiums but can’t sell songs and at the end of the day the only thing the label is concerned about is album/singles sales.

    I remember Adam’s first album sold the same thing or even more outisde the US. If he can repeat this pattern for Trespassing he’s totally safe for a third album.

  • Jazz_11

    It doesn’t have anything to do with whether he’s nice or not. But he will be alright. Maybe indie label is better for him.

  • elliegrll

    Fantasia’s sales haven’t dropped off.  Her third album sold the same as the second one.  She had the normal idol drop from the first one to the second, which was expected, but she’s one of the top sellers and most played artists in her genre.

  • Jazz_11

    We just found out about his name missing from the 19 Recording website last week or two weeks ago.

  • hellomusicgirl

    Yeah, it seems to. I honestly think we might see more of that type of thing in the future. We’ve seen that with technology now you don’t have to be setup with million dollar studios to make good music. Having expensive producers and co-writers can help but its not a sure thing. So if you have a company/label like Sony who is willing to work with you in distributing & promoting your music, especially in areas where you’ve been proven to sell in the past, then its low risk for them. And it gets the artist’s music out there in a more accessible way.

    Obviously a full record deal is still the best way to go (I’m not delusional or anything lol) but deals are at a premium and there are lots of artists that are making a living in the music industry without having a giant major-label contract but you just have to be creative about it and try to make good connections. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    They already know the total worldwide sales numbers for Adam’s singles and albums this era. If they were going to drop him, they wouldn’t be sending him to South Africa for concerts and promo and they wouldn’t be releasing a third single in any way. They also wouldn’t still have his picture as one of their main artists on the page for 19 Entertainment.  

    I’m sorry to hear this about Kris and wish good things for him in the future.

  • shell29

    I agree-her sales and chart success are more than acceptable so she’s in no real danger of being dropped.

  • irockhard

    For how much longer?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/4DS2H4EB44GRR26MRZWI5MBB5Q Diane

    Not entirely true. Kris has been gaining new fans for a while now, as evidenced by the Deer Park, NY, show a couple of months ago. It’s a shame RCA never picked up on any of that. Had they marketed him the right way his album would have sold a lot, lot more. Can’t say I’m totally surprised by this drop though because I knew Cook sold more albums than Kris, and it surprised me that RCA dropped him. 

    And I’m totally confused by radio refusing to play good songs. I was told by my local DJ that even U2 can’t get radio play these days, that the competition is so tough. Crazy. 

  • elliegrll

    Your observation about Colton is spot on.  I thought that a lot of people who tried out for season ten were very proactive in trying to create a fanbases, whether they made it far into the competition or not.

    One huge problem for so many alums is that they don’t seem to know who they are trying to reach.  I’ve had that thought about Kris.  Some may not know where they fit, or how they should go about targeting a specific audience.  A huge problem for alums is that the are hardly ever targeted at the demo that would be most receptive to listening to and buying music from someone who is just coming off a reality tv talent show.

    fuzzywuzzy said: Is there a source for this information?

    Not direct quotes.  Just following the airplay and sales charts that are available, and the numbers that have been released.

  • hellomusicgirl

    But did David sell many albums on Indonesia?

    The new album was just released there last week and I have no idea about sales numbers. I don’t have much luck finding those internationally. Apparently Sony felt good enough about sales of his previous CDs that they manufactured and distributed this one.
    Of course, album sales in Asia (Japan excepted) are much lower across the board than what they are in the U.S. or some other regions. Its been well-documented what piracy has done to music sales there. Concerts seem to be the big draw.

    Maroon 5 had a concert in the Philippines this week at Araneta Coliseum that was sold out. And that same day I saw an article that said Maroon 5 were the most illegally downloaded music act of the year for that country. LOL. So, there ya go.

  • MissMyEm

    With Kris, David, and pretty much every other idol alum, they never
    found an audience beyond their AI fans, and those AI fans can’t be
    counted on for stable album sales.

     Your premise is more than likely right, but how on earth are they
    suppose to find fans out of the AI bubble if a label doesn’t promote
    them??    When Kris first started out and opened for all those name
    acts, he did in fact gain fans outside the bubble.  But if one doesn’t
    hear a name on the radio ad nauseum, like many other singers, then that
    singer not played will not garner new fans.   To quote Bill
    Clinton…it’s arithemetic.

    Kris needs a label who will support him.   RCA as I said, has artists on their roster that I would never listen to.   Other than Gavin DeGraw, Ray LaMontagne and Kelly Clarkson there’s not a one there that I can say I’d buy their records.  I’ll give credit to Chris Daughtry for making saleable music even though I don’t particular care for his voice or his music.   As for the rest of their artists….I wouldn’t buy their music if you paid me.

    So once again…Kris IMO is better off and hopefully someone will come along to promote that talent.  

    Independent labels are good.

  • judes

    I’m not sad for Kris. I’m sick of large labels ripping off their artists . Already with Kris’s new management I am getting much more news about him through my email links than I ever did before. I’m also pleased that he is having a mini tour next month as well.If he is going the indi route & those of us OS actually get access to Kris’s music more readily [ unlike previously there was only a karaoke version of LLWD available in Australia!!] I will be very happy. 

    Maybe Australia is different but myself & my  children don’t hear about new music on radio -its all through online notification & updates on i-Tunes & the like. Here its all about being promoted in these places not actually radio play as such [so maybe labels don't have the same incentive here to use radio ?]To me lately Kris looks happy & relaxed & enjoying playing his music – that’s what’s important to me. 

  • irockhard

    Most of the piracy sites are based outside the US and still there are many countries that don’t have access to stuff like iTunes (for music), Spotify, ect., eg: mine. Perhaps piracy would be a smaller problem if the US based music industry made a bigger effort to make the music of their artists available EVERYWHERE.

  • hellomusicgirl

    I 100% agree with that :)

    The world is much too connected now to ever work within the old bounds of limited release.

  • thirdtime

     Your premise is more than likely right, but how on earth are they suppose to find fans out of the AI bubble if a label doesn’t promote them??

    I agree with this statement.  Unfortunately, it seems all too often with the big labels like they are only interested in milking the existing fans for everything they can before tossing the Idol out, rather than helping them to find new fans.  I really fear for some others who are on big labels right now too. 

  • elliegrll

    This is how we know that Kris hasn’t picked up a substantial number of fans, 24,000 albums sold and out of the top 200 in just two weeks.  Compare that to the first album selling 80,000 the first week.  The album quickly fell below 2000 copies a week, which doesn’t happen if someone has built up a strong fanbase, or is attracting new fans.

    We don’t even have to look at the numbers.  Kris hasn’t been put in to a position to make new fans, or gain exposure outside of the idol bubble.  His management never took the time to expose him to the right audience for his music, or promote him as anything other than someone who won a season of AI.  Most of the events that he was booked for had nothing to do with promoting him as an artist.

  • elliegrll

    An artist isn’t going to get promotion if there is no buzz. There is no budget for big promo off of low expected sales and gatekeepers who book the big promo are not interested. After 6-12 months off of Idol that buzz dries up. Radio and the industry are not interested unless something else drums up the buzz. Time and time again we have seen that just doesn’t happen.  

    This.  Kris wasn’t appearing on any of those lists that announce that someone’s album is coming out, he’d been out of the public eye for almost two years, he wasn’t getting any press, only had one song on the radio, and it’s spins had to be just a few hundred.  RCA pushed the single, and knew well in advance of the album coming out that radio stations weren’t interested in playing it, and those who did, just played it overnight.  8 weeks after the single was released, it was still just getting overnight spins.  Based on all of that, there was no reason to put money behind promoting the album.  

    Leandro said: I remember Adam’s first album sold the same thing or even more outisde the US. If he can repeat this pattern for Trespassing he’s totally safe for a third album.

    Trespassing is not repeating that pattern.

  • girlygirltoo

    Who among the S10 Idols has built a fanbase that reaches outside of the Idol bubble? Aside from Scotty, that is. It seems like James may be starting to do so, but until his 2nd album comes out, we won’t really know if that’s the case. Haley hasn’t, Pia hasn’t, Stefano hasn’t, Casey A. hasn’t. Lauren? Maybe, maybe not. Colton may be one of the lucky ones since he found a label that will target him to the CCM market and likely won’t expect him to sell much. The others may not get that lucky.

    Kris knows who he is as an artist just as much as any of the S10 or S11 Idols do. But as they will soon find out, they will have little say in what demo or genre the label tries to market them to.

  • Tess

    The music business has been and always will be tough beyond belief.  I would gather that 1 in 100 who record a first album get a second and that diminishes to 1 in 100 for the third album.  The music climate is forever changing, new kids are always being signed, and the old guard slowly gets consumed by the golden oldie club.  

    That being said I don’t think any of the Idolettes who have been signed and were able to record would trade that experience for anything no matter where it led or leads.  They got to grab the gold ring if only for an instant and that instant may lead to a lifetime being involved somehow in the music industry.  Personally I don’t feel sorry for any of them…most have made enough money to buy a home and put some money in the bank for the future…more than most of us can say in our late twenties.

    Kris’ future, like the Davids, Lee, and the others is up to him and how much he wants to put himself on the line.  So he won’t be the next big thing…so far no Idol (other than Carrie and Kelly) have “made it” to the top tier…but neither have most non-Idol singers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lisa-Walker/100003588396061 Lisa Walker

    thats too bad, not surprising sadly, the consolidation of labels certainly didnt help.  At least he got a 2nd album out of the deal, I though Allison’s album was GREAT but sales only so so and she was dropped too.  Kris has a nice voice and fans and is a great performer, Im sure he will still do well.  Its a tough biz these days for sure.  I hope he finds a smaller label that can serve him well.

    Good Luck Kris…..

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    Trespassing is not repeating that pattern.

    You have no way of knowing this. TSP charted and stayed on the charts in many countries equal to where it was charting and the length of time it charted here in the US. The overall numbers need to be adjusted down, but there is good reason to believe Trespassing is following a similar pattern to FYE, as far as the division of overall sales percentages.

    All we have to go on for certain is chart placements and the fact that RCA knows these numbers and has decided to continue with promo and a third single.

  • Jazz_11

    Not to take the discussion from Kris, just want to clear the info a bit. David A success internationally is in country that broadcast AI, such as you said Phillipines & Indonesia. While Adam international includes Australia, SE Asia (Singapore, Phillipine, Malaysia), HK, Japan and China is catching up, Europe, UK and S. Africa. Adam is going to have 2 concerts in S Africa in November. He maybe not as big as Kelly, but Kelly has been around 10 years now and Adam is still in his 3rd year.

  • irockhard

    Scotty’s sophomore album can tank for all we know and he hasn’t mastered country radio yet. Has he really made significant inroads or is he still just novelty? James (who like Colton is also on a genre specific label that doesn’t expect him to sell much) was doing great on tour and was making inroads into his genre but I have no idea what to expect for album #2. And you left out Casey Abrams. Naima signed with Peak Records earlier this year and was supposed to release an EP, but no further word on that since.

  • merkureye

    At this point, the record of American Idol winners and runner’s-up (Kelly and Carrie excepted) as sellers of music can be considered dismal.  AI just needs to move to the X Factor model.  Have the show, not the record label, pay the winner $5 million like Melanie Amaro got and be done with it.  If the AI winner is considered strong enough by some record label to offer a deal, let the negotiations begin but it shouldn’t be guaranteed.  If the Idol can launch and sustain a career so be it.

    There is no way that the current AI model for selecting a “winner” (with existing voting dynamics) can be considered a reliable indicator of how well an Idol’s music will sell in the real world.  I’m looking at two people in this years T5 that I personally don’t know who they are going to sell music to.  imo. 

      

  • Pippygirl

    It’s very hard for amateurs off of Idol to know much about to market  themselves properly. In my opinion if they have to know how to do that, then what the hell are they paying their management to do?

    I think Kris wants to make pop music and with TYC he pretty much did just that. The problem is I’m not sure he fits in that genre persona/imagewise.
    I have felt for awhile that if Kris was marketed more to younger viewers he could do well. His age is a little against him but he looks quite a bit younger than he is so that helps. I don’t know if that’s what Kris wants however since the label and 19 did very little to make that happen. We’ll see what the new management does.

  • yksask

     What I find interesting is the numbers for Trespassing even in the US are not posted in his Wikipedia. If they were good I believe they would be making people aware that this is a good selling album. We all  know that is not true in the US.

  • Incipit

    Its my hope, for all the Idols sake, that this means labels on loosening up on the restrictions of how they’ll work with artists. Even if you’re not signed to an exclusive contract with a label, having their powers of distribution is a very important thing.

    hellomusicgirl, IMO, creative arrangements for distribution may be the next opportunity in the industry, considering the amount of artists who continue to make music without the mixed blessing of a big label “deal”.

    DC has also worked with Sony Asia, as Archie did, through Ivory Music,  the exclusive licensee of Sony Music in the Philippines. They still handle the sales of TLM there. 

    Elliot Yamin, on the Independent label Hickory Records was distributed through Sony BMG-owned RED Distribution, according to the last intel I saw. 

    No doubt there are others, if I looked around. 

    Marketing and distribution have solutions, but I don’t have any idea what can be done about the corporate squeeze on terrestrial radio play – the online options are in their infancy yet, in comparison. IMO.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    As a James’s fan I know he’s very known in the hard rock world, but people didn’t give him the rock cred yet. I hope with this new album it will happen.

    I’m noticing that P2 is starting to build a fanbase outside the bubble because he has a major hit. But so had DC.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y2H6IQWNMTSNTCTWDP7TDFEKPY Linda

    I’m sorry but not surprised to hear about this. On the bright side, I just bought tickets to see Kris in Annapolis in October in a very intimate setting. I’m sooooo looking forward to this. I can only hope Kris can find the help he needs to continue making music in the future. He deserves success more than a lot of artists we hear in excess every day.

  • elliegrll

    I didn’t say that they built one, or that I’m paying attention to them.  I said that I noticed how proactive they were in trying to connect with fans.  I don’t know if that’s because 19 gave them more freedom to do so or what, but many people from that season’s top 24 and 40 seemed to realize that this is what they needed to do, no matter what happened in the 
    competition.  

    Who knows if Colton’s actions will pay off in any way other than getting him a contract, which is huge, but at least he didn’t sit by and do nothing.

    Kris knows who he is as an artist just as much as any of the S10 or S11 Idols do.

     

    He may, but he doesn’t seem to know where he fits, or how to go about performing in front of people who would be interested in his music.  He seems to see himself one way, but that doesn’t match up with the perception of people outside of the bubble.  At least that’s how I’m rationalizing why he didn’t address some issues that should have been clear to him that they would hurt any chance that TYC had.

  • http://twitter.com/Quu3 Q3

    I wish Kris the best of luck. Not surprising but unfortunate.

    I think that the incompetence medal should go to 19M for ineffective artist’s management.

     

  • elliegrll

    You did a good job of explaining it, and the question is, how does Kris see himself, and where does he want to fit in.  It’s not just about saying that he wants to make pop music, what sound does he want.  IMO, if Kris put out an independent album today, I don’t expect to hear a lot of songs that sound like My Weakness of LLWD.  I would expect to hear songs like Teach Me How Love Goes or Out Alive.  

    I think that that’s how he sees himself, which is fine, except for the fact that he’d get more attention and sell more music if he first released songs in the vein of MW.  

    If I were advising Kris, I would have told him that he’s not going to get anyone to listen to the type of songs that he’s passionate about, until he first gets their attention with songs that are poppier, and that he should be proud of the fact that he can really vocally sell those songs, even if they aren’t a perfect fit to who he wants to be (as an artist).

  • Jazz_11

    “We all know that is not true in the US.”

    Taylor is not talking about US numbers. Ithink for International sales, only the Sony/RCA knows the numbers, since they don’t realy publish it like US with HDD/Billboard. People may think Adam doesn’t do good this time, but maybe Sony/RCA has their own considerations.

  • girlygirltoo

    It’s like the question about the chicken and the egg. What comes first — buzz or promotion? In my opinion, in most (not all) cases, it is very difficult to build any buzz without promotion. Yes, it can be done, but it’s pretty rare for artists, especially new ones, to break out without getting major promo.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DY5236XYY2SBL7EJNTK5ROIGMA Madred

    She’ll most likely get a potential second album with a test single being put out. I wouldn’t be surprised if they changed her sound on the next album. At this point, I don’t think Interscope wants to drop any of the Idols they have signed too soon. I would imagine she will be featured on one of the Spring result shows to debut it. If it doesn’t take off, she will most likely be dropped and move to a smaller label. 

  • yksask

     I realize that Taylor was talking about International numbers. I was just pointing out that none of his numbers not even US sales are posted on his Wikipedia  for Trespassing. They have his FYE numbers.

  • djafan

    Archie is doing pretty good on his own, even while away on a mission.  Not only did he leave us music but also a mini series, commercials and Bench clothes and hair products model photoshoots.  Archie’s picture is all over Asia on billboards and malls. Adam Levine just joined the Bench family.

    Sony and Ivory Records are distributing BEGIN.  Broken and Everybody Hurts is charting on radio.  Forevermore hit all the charts and they’re getting ready to release a music video for Rainbow.  They mention “dubstep” when referring to it.  I’m a very happy Archie fan :)

    Jay Durias ?@jaydurias
    Watch Out For David Archuleta’s MV of The Rainbow Remix! Coming Out Soon!

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    [Kris Allen] doesn’t seem to know where he fits, or how to go about performing in front of people who would be interested in his music.  He seems to see himself one way, but that doesn’t match up with the perception of people outside of the bubble.  At least that’s how I’m rationalizing why he didn’t address some issues that should have been clear to him that they would hurt any chance that TYC had.

    To be fair, I’m not sure there always is a right answer for how to address the Idol winner’s challenges in building an audience, at least with the resources at hand. KA may get better at putting himself in front of the right people for what he wants, now that he’s out from under the 19R/RCA contract and its associated expectations.

    Aimee Mann did an interesting interview with Spin, where she talks about how today’s music industry demands of musicians a lot of DIY entrepreneurial skills that don’t necessarily come naturally (or at all) to artists (here).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QKHGDXSSB46J4WLB2ORIDBA3YQ Clarence

    Fantastic comments on this Kris Allen thread. Learned quite a bit. I hope Kris reads this and sees the support and suggestions fans have got for him.

  • wordnerdarchie

    The last actual report of US sales for Adam Lambert was:
    #185 7/23/2012  2,736  143,779

    If he’s sold around 2,000 per week since he would be at around 160,000 but that would be generous, I think.  Stated earlier, there are no numbers out there as far as I know for international sales. So is this enough to indicate to RCA that he still has potential to make them money in future releases?

    Given the release of Pickler, Cook, and now Kris, I’d be concerned.

  • girlygirltoo

    IDK…They already dropped Pia. Haley’s sales numbers are not very good, despite putting out a strong album. She hasn’t gotten a 2nd single, even though she has talked about Oh My (and another song, which I forget the name of right now). She may get a 2nd cd on Interscope, but it’s far from a guarantee.

  • girlygirltoo

    nvm

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24 yahoo-FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24

    You have to start with radio play. You have to be willing to do all the hard work. Your management has to be willing to work hard for you. You have to understand the music business. In a interview yesterday casey j mentioned the hard work. Look at all his gigs compared to guys that are on the pop labels from idol. Not to say the same thing wont happen to him but the evidence is clearly there he is making a impact and gaining new fans. 

  • cmom

    I agree that it is so hard for all the Idols (and now other singing show people) if they can not build a fan base. I think not counting on radio play or sales,the only way to get a hint of fanbase is twitter&concert sales.I went on a twitter site http://twittercounter.com/compare/DavidArchie/darrencriss/krisallen/month/followers  and saw that for this past month (for example) here is some random info in this order name,one month’s follower increase,total followers: krisallen 450/294,600; scottymccreery 11,000/632,000; adamlambert 48,000/1.6million; davidarchie 15,000/1.2million; thedavidcook 3,000/306,000; phillips 12,000/518,000; leedewyze -550/104,272;and for comparison – darrencriss 30,000/1million. Of course, d.criss went up this month because of glee. Also interesting that Archie keeps going up even though he has been gone for 6 months. It is really interesting to compare them all at 1 week/1month/3months. Adam, Scotty, Archie and Phillips have been increasing at a steaty pace for a while. Others also go up well (like jordan). To me, they have to keep their numbers going upward meaning that more people are aware of them and have some interest in them or have them on their personal radar.   

  • fuzzywuzzy

    With those domestic sales, I feel that Adam’s future with RCA depends on how commercially successful he can be internationally. Since only RCA knows how well Adam has done internationally, it remains to be seen if his future with them is in jeopardy.

  • elliegrll

     

    but the evidence is clearly there he is making a impact and gaining new fans.

    At this point with both Casey and Phillip, I think that the only thing that we can say is that they are being exposed to new people outside of the AI bubble.   It usually takes more than people seeing one festival or concert in order to make a new fan.  As someone said earlier, these appearances and and songs have to be paired up with constant airplay, promotion, and releasing more than one single, before someone can be converted into a fan.   The alums have to maintain a visible presence that also lets people know what type of music they are producing.

    Kris had a lot of concerts during the end of 2009 and pretty much the entire year of 2010, but what he was missing was the airplay after LLWD peaked, and mainstream promotion on tv, in magazines, etc.

  • Kitwana

    When David A left Jive in February 2011, he said in his vlog that Jive had made offers to him to continue working together but that he had turned them down (probably because he had decided to go on his mission by then). http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=L0UY9H3vMTM I find it interesting that those ex-Idols who have left their labels since David have not mentioned offers from the label to continue working together. I’m not saying that the label did not make offers to them and that they simply decided to go indie but it may be that Sony is getting out of the Idol business.

  • elliegrll

    Yet, despite this, Adam’s second album has sold about the same amount as Cook’s.  

    I think that twitter followers means that people are aware that the person exists, which is just a very important first step,  but that doesn’t mean that those people are fans, or that they will buy albums or concert tickets.

  • http://twitter.com/doesmonaknow DoesMonaKnow

    I guess I’m only sort of surprised, because there was talk from Kris of a second single. What was that about? Before then, a “parting of ways” seemed inevitable and then fans got their hopes up for some sort of miracle only to get this news a short time later. I wonder how long Kris has known about it. Hopefully they told him sooner than RCA’s social media team.

    The writing’s been on the wall since 2010, really. I had a small bit of optimism that maybe album #2 could turn things around but then it was pushed to 2012 and there went that shred of hope.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24 yahoo-FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24

    I was talking about sales with casey j. That is evidence you cant deny. Coas is selling the same as people with twice the ai and in some cases selling more. COAS sold 9k this week. It is gaining sales every week the song goes higher. You cant deny that. His cd sales while still low has also increased the last couple weeks. I wasnt saying that the same thing might not happen but you can see his carreer and his grass roots approach working and its very gratifying.

  • Pippygirl

    In a interview yesterday casey j mentioned the hard work. Look at all
    his gigs compared to guys that are on the pop labels from idol.

    You must not follow Kris because he did a TON of radio shows/gigs all over the country pretty much non stop after Idol. I know David Cook also had a very long tour post Idol and Adam has also done plenty of radio gigs and shows. To say these guys aren’t working hard is just not true in my opinion.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Archie’s twitter follower increases really are impressive.  Usually we see twitter bumps because of promo, concert appearances,  or other media exposure.  He’s been able to do it while gone.

    I noticed with David Cook, his 2month total of twitter follower adds was over 29,000, but we can attribute that to high profile gigs in the Philippines & Indonesia in July.

    I’m wondering how is Archie doing it?  That’s pretty awesome.

  • TackyZacky

    Hmmm … except for Daughtry (who was just a runner-up) it looks like RCA is ridding itself of AI WGWG winners.

    I guess for RCA, being a good guy doing all kinds of charity gigs just cannot replace being able to rake in tons of green dough from cd sales.

    Brutal.

  • elliegrll

    But, I don’t think that the single selling less than 10,000 copies a week means that he is gaining new fans.  I’d buy that theory a little more, if people were buying the album.  I just think that in the age of digital downloads, and maybe always, that it takes more than one song to make someone into a fan.  There have been alums who have sold more copies of songs than what Casey is selling, but they weren’t able to convert all of those people into fans, Kris, and the David’s come to mind.

    He is being exposed to more people, so that’s the first step in in trying to make them fans.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24 yahoo-FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24

    Most albums dont sell tons. And actually album sales will lag a big hit in the case like his.Caseys cd has actually been doing a little better the last couple weeks. He wouldnt be selling 9k a week if he wasnt making new fans because you cant download a single twice on itunes. So that makes no sense. He is actually selling almost twice right now what ldcian sold ats its peek.Anyway this isnt meant to highjack a thread just trying to make some pointsd why idols dont catch on when it comes to pop radio.

  • shell29

    They already know the total worldwide sales numbers for Adam’s singles and albums this era. If they were going to drop him, they wouldn’t be sending him to South Africa for concerts and promo and they wouldn’t be releasing a third single in any way. They also wouldn’t still have his picture as one of their main artists on the page for 19 Entertainment.

     

    The fact that Adam’s still on the RCA roster doesn’t somehow make him immune from being dropped later.  With RCA it seems you’re only as good as the sales of your last album and as of right now, the sales of Trespassing are not that great (putting it mildly) and the first two singles have failed. 

    Obviously they aren’t ready to drop Adam at this moment, but the minute RCA feels they aren’t getting the necessary return on their investment he’s toast-just like Cook, DeWyze, and Kris.

  • Incipit

    When David A left Jive in February 2011, he said in his vlog that Jive had made offers to him to continue working together but that he had turned them down 

    Kitwana, the only thing DC has said along those lines is that the label saw different things “on the horizon” than he did…that he saw this coming, and that it was an amicable parting. That may or may not translate to the same thing, in the end. IDK, and he will probably never say. Kris hasn’t told us anything as yet, we’ll have to wait for his ‘cryptic quote’. 

    Sony is having its’s own problems, and getting out of the Idol business may be one of their solutions – though they have certainly made a boatload of money off of these artists – in this climate they would really have to work for their percentage.

    19M has a perceived competence problem lately with most artists from Idol – I feel like giving this year’s contestants the advice of the *Knights Who Say NI”, in regards to signing their management contract, if they can – “Run away, run away!” Heh.

    (*Ref: Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

  • cmom

    Thanks you,Kitwana for posting that very interesting Archie video where he talks about Jive and Sony and the people leaving both Sony and Jive at that time – it was very interesting about his A&R guy leaving and it must have been clear to him that something big was going down at Jive with people jumping ship. Interesting that Archie was so clear about what was happening at Sony and Jive – good to get that background.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S3ZGXZCUE2YYOS7QV6QSTKM4SA buffynut2001

    “Yet, despite this, Adam’s second album has sold about the same amount as Cook’s.” 

    elliegrll, you forgot to say in 4 months. 
    True, not burning up the sales charts, but I think people forget it hasn’t been out that long. And only RCA knows how much the album is selling internationally. Too many countries don’t report. Gosh, even just 5,000 in 10 countries is 50K and we know he has sold more than that in several countries that have reported. And he is selling in more than 10 countries.
    BTW, his last figures were mid August, I think from Brian, and it was at 151,580

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24 yahoo-FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24

    No I dont follow Kris closely but I have looked at his website and it is either not posting gigs or he hardly had any. I think if you compared it to Casey J you would see it isnt that many. Casey is doing a show almost everyday. He took a break a few weeks ago but he has gigs booked now for the rest of the year. On another thought you have to be a natural and just be a people person when you do radio gigs and have fun with the radio people.

  • elliegrll

    elliegrll, you forgot to say in 4 months.

    Not really, because the main point was that 1 million twitter followers does not equal 1 million people who are willing to buy the album.

  • tigervixxxen

    I wouldn’t assume Casey J is safe either.

    Twitter followers is pretty much irrelevant. I follow plenty of Idols I have no intention of buying music from. Plus it’s been exposed how easy it is to buy twitter followers. Not accusing and of the Idols for doing this but it just undermines the importance even more.

    It’s true that buzz and promo go hand in hand especially when it snowballs. I think Phillip is the perfect example of this. But I’ve notice that for pop radio to play an artist they need to be making headlines outside of just their music. Either some huge new artist hype or major placement on TV like a commercial or headlines for any other reason. I know that’s a generalization and there are exceptions but Idols don’t generate big enough headlines anymore.

  • Pippygirl

    Yes Adam has sold albums internationally, but you are not figuring the cost of promoting him and the album overseas. We don’t know what RCA has spent versus what they have earned. However since they are going to release Trespassing they are obviously still supportive of Adam.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24 yahoo-FY2C22O3MOGRCKTXRWVOSL6B24

    I never said Casey J was safe. You need to reread my post. I said just the opposite. What I did say is his hard work seems to be paying off and he is clearly building up more and more fans everyday. The evidence is there

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S3ZGXZCUE2YYOS7QV6QSTKM4SA buffynut2001

    Here elliegrll, this is what I have without going into hours of research.
    These are opening week numbers from the UK (7,800) and Canada (10K+). Also, Japan, digital only, was 11.5K.
    Just off the top of my head, the countries Adam is selling in are UK, Japan, China, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, S Africa, Brazil, Australia, NZ, Denmark, Russia, Hungary, the list goes on. I am assuming also in the Philipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore. Those are a fraction of the countries it charted in opening week alone.
    Here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespassing_(album)

  • HKfan

    Music and film piracy has always been huge in Asia, made worse by the fact that we didn’t have Itunes until last month, so buying legit music wasn’t always easy, especially singles.
    Concerts are a big draw. Many people go to concerts even if they’re not big fans of the artists, just because we don’t get as many acts out here (although far, far more than we did 10 years ago) and they like to watch live shows.
    Maroon 5 are playing here next week. I’d quite like to go, like some of their music, although don’t like Adam Levine, don’t think I can warrent $1,800 for 2 tickets for someone I’m not a big fan of though. (still tickets available at the moment).

    re Kris, its a shame but not unexpected. Hope he manages to find another more suitable label..

  • elliegrll

    If singles selling well were evidence of people becoming fans, then alums who sold a million or more copies of songs from their first album wouldn’t have seen sales for their second albums drop so hard.  It takes liking more than one song, before I would call myself a fan of an artist, or even check out their album.  

  • jpfan2

    Not really a surprise because if RCA dropped Cook who had a huge 1st album and sold 150K with his 2nd, Kris was in serious trouble. I was actually a little surprised they gave him a 2nd album. Good luck to Kris. He seems to be doing well getting artists to record his songs. That’s a good business to be in.

    I think anybody who isn’t Kelly, Carrie, JHud, Fantasia and probably Daughtry could be in trouble with their label.  Daughtry 3rd album underperformed but I’m sure RCA will give them album #4.  Everybody else has to prove they can make money for their label because it’s a business. Doesn’t mean they can’t make music just that they won’t be with their original label.

  • escape

    Kris? It was pretty much expected. So much for the second single?

    Casey James? Look what happened to Kelli Pickler.

    Twitter followers? The most mis leading barometer of someone’s popularity.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Kris? It was pretty much expected. So much for the third single?

    He’s only had one single from TYC, right?  Or did I miss one?

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    These are opening week numbers from the UK (7,800) and Canada (10K+). Also, Japan, digital only, was 11.5K. Just off the top of my head, the countries Adam is selling in are UK, Japan, China, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, S Africa, Brazil, Australia, NZ, Denmark, Russia, Hungary, the list goes on. I am assuming also in the Philipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore. Those are a fraction of the countries it charted in opening week alone.

    Thing is, after UK, Japan, and Germany, the countries on your list have tiny overall album sales, so assuming that Lambert’s album sold more than 5,000 per country doesn’t necessarily match its peak chart position. 

    Gold certification levels give an idea of the relative sizes of the music markets around the world. Gold for a non-Hungarian album in Hungary is 3,000 sales, so it’s likely Trespassing didn’t sell that many copies there, even though it peaked at #1. And I’m skeptical that an album peaking at #20 in Sweden would sell half the quantity needed to go gold there, as that certainly wouldn’t be assured for an album peaking at #20 in the U.S.

    I’m not going to work through every country, but you get the idea. The first 50k or so internationally is easy to document. After that, I don’t see how the remaining countries can provide another 100k.

  • escape

    Ooops, typo.  He’s only had 1 single from his latest CD.

    Sony obviously is cleaning house with regards to their Idol roster.  I doubt Kris will be the last.

    Look at what happened to Kelli Pickler.  All it took was one CD that didn’t work, even though she’s had several years of success with Sony.

  • Karen C

    An artist isn’t going to get promotion if there is no buzz. There is no budget for big promo off of low expected sales and gatekeepers who book the big promo are not interested. After 6-12 months off of Idol that buzz dries up. Radio and the industry are not interested unless something else drums up the buzz.

    This is true, but the record companies are also capable of creating buzz for someone who is new and unknown, and get radio play.  While it’s true that they have the Idol buzz at first, and not for their second albums, maybe the problem is that the record companies are relying too much on that, and not promoting them as new artists during their first album.

    WIth Kris, I don’t think it’s the genre, since similar artists are doing well.

  • suenigma

    So given that the UK, Canada and Japan are his largest International markets, 50,000 or so internationally? Not great anyway you slice it. He did a LOT of promo in the UK this era (I would say at the expense of his early stateside album promo in fact) so those numbers are especially dissappointing.

  • YankeeFan08

    This is really not surprising news.  I wonder though why Kris said recently that there would be a second single released.  It doesn’t seem likely that RCA would tell him they were releasing another single and then subsequently decide to drop him.  Is this something record labels can do?  Tell an artist they will be releasing a single and then change their minds?

  • girlygirltoo

    Kris just tweeted this:

    krisallen

    #I wanted to let everyone know that RCA and I have decided to split ways. I thank them so much for everything that they did for me. There are so many people there that contributed to my becoming the artist that I am and I will miss them all.. In saying that, I am really excited about what is ahead. The path has never been clearer to me. I love what I do and I will never stop. So, to my amazing fans, thank you so much for everything so far but things are only gonna get more fun. I promise.

  • elliegrll

    These are opening week numbers from the UK (7,800) and Canada (10K+). Also, Japan, digital only, was 11.5K. Just off the top of my head, the countries Adam is selling in are UK, Japan, China, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, S Africa, Brazil, Australia, NZ, Denmark, Russia, Hungary, the list goes on. I am assuming also in the Philipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore. Those are a fraction of the countries it charted in opening week alone.

    To me, saying that he is selling in these countries implies that the album is continuing to sell.  But, we know that the album fell off the charts in Japan after three or four weeks, and I believe that it was two for the UK.  So my question is, is the album still selling in these other countries, and if not, how long was it on the chart?  It’s one think to appear on these charts, or even the Itunes chart, as the case may be, for a week, it’s another to do it long enough to stack up a significant amount of sales that would balance out the album doing poorly in the US.

    We know that the numbers for the UK and Japan were not great, but beyond that, for many of the countries that you mention, the singles that were released struggled just like they struggled in the US, so I have a hard time believing that the album was able to put up good numbers, despite the single not getting a lot of airplay.  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S3ZGXZCUE2YYOS7QV6QSTKM4SA buffynut2001

    Eilonwy,
    Those figures were first week only. Several people said Adam isn’t selling very much internationally. If we take first week from only 3 countries, that is another 30K right there. Since many countries don’t report sales or even certify, how can someone say he is not selling much internationally, when figures from just week one, from only 3 countries, show otherwise?

  • suenigma

    That is a great comment by Kris. RCA’s press release is also pretty classy. Did RCA ever comment like that on Cook’s departure?

  • elliegrll

    RCA is made up of a lot of people.  Kris seemed to have strong support among his A&R person and those in the publicity and promotions department, but it probably wasn’t the decision of any of these people.  They could believe in Kris, but honestly, there is no way that they can provide concrete evidence to the decision makers that would prove that he will eventually make RCA a profit.

    buffynut2001 said: Those figures were first week only. Several people said Adam isn’t selling very much internationally. If we take first week from only 3 countries, that is another 30K right there. Since many countries don’t report sales or even certify, how can someone say he is not selling much internationally, when figures from just week one, from only 3 countries, show otherwise?

    Easily, I wouldn’t call 30K a lot, especially when the album quickly vanished from these charts after three or four weeks. The line of thinking seems to be that International sales are making up for the album not selling well here, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S3ZGXZCUE2YYOS7QV6QSTKM4SA buffynut2001

    Nice classy statement from Kris. I really do wish him well. I’ll bet he gets picked up by a small label. He is a talented songwriter. His new management is a good sign, IMO!

  • Pippygirl

    What was the RCA press release?

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    Those figures were first week only. Several people said Adam isn’t selling very much internationally. If we take first week from only 3 countries, that is another 30K right there. Since many countries don’t report sales or even certify, how can someone say he is not selling much internationally, when figures from just week one, from only 3 countries, show otherwise?

    We can say it very easily for a couple of reasons.

    First-week sales are usually the highest week, unless there’s some additional driver for sales. Since TSP didn’t stay on the international charts very long, it’s pretty safe to assume that sales after the first week were incremental. 

    Perhaps more important, the fact that TSP sold ~8k its first week in the U.K., a country that’s in the top 4 for album sales worldwide, does not mean it sold anything close to 8k its first week in countries with much smaller overall sales. Somewhere like Sweden, an 8k opening week would have been a record-setting blockbuster album with a peak at #1, not at #20. (ETA: I’d roughly estimate that in its peak week in Sweden, TSP sold ~750 copies.)

    It’s necessary and logical to assume that in countries with very small album sales overall, TSP will not post numbers anywhere like what it did in countries with relatively high total album sales. This is especially true when it didn’t chart high in those countries. And once an album is off the charts in a country where #1 is 2,000 or so, it’s safe to assume that its continuing sales are very, very, very small.

    Countries that don’t report sales are usually known to have high piracy rates and tiny actual sales.

    Unless the admin at AO has posted actual international numbers, I can’t see a plausible way to get higher than 75k at the absolute outside limit, and that’s giving every possible benefit of the doubt, including a few I made up just to be nice and don’t really believe in.

  • suenigma

    I probably misread MJ’s post. Lol. I thought that the quoted part was RCA’s confirmation. I’m easily confused…

  • Pippygirl

    That’s okay. I spend most of my days confused :)

  • Jazz_11

    RCA gave him 2nd album because from his 1st album he has platinum single. So they think Kris was a single seller, like a lot of singers that are on the top 40charts who mostly sell single and don’t sale album.

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    Did RCA ever comment like that on Cook’s departure?

    I don’t recall any statement. Maybe they were sore losers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002166668687 Ali Goria

    And IMO some of the promo they do is just dumb and a waste of money/time. Why send an artist all over the place to radio stations to sing pop songs acoustic? At least PLAY the songs while the artist is in the studio on air so the audience can actually hear what the song sounds like. eyeroll. 

    For these Idols, it’s like that question if a tree falls in the forest can anybody hear it. 

  • http://twitter.com/shoriagirl Shoriagirl

    Best news ever! RCA is just a bunch of incompetent morons and will go by the way of Jive.

  • MissMyEm

    @krisallen

    #I wanted to let everyone know that RCA and I have decided to split
    ways. I thank them so much for everything that they did for me. There
    are so many people there that contributed to my becoming the artist that
    I am and I will miss them all.. In saying that, I am really excited
    about what is ahead. The path has never been clearer to me.
    I love what I
    do and I will never stop. So, to my amazing fans, thank you so much for
    everything so far but things are only gonna get more fun. I promise.

    Am I the only one not unhappy about this?  Just look at this tweet.  This doesn’t reek of someone who is upset or unhappy.   This tweet says that Kris knows what he’s doing and as I said I don’t necessarily think it was RCA’s decision.   I think Kris made the decision, especially saying what he did (part in itals).   He’s happy.  He’s excited.   This says to me that things are happening.  

    And I think he may even have a new label.   He says that things are going to be more fun. That doesn’t tell me he’s going to be sitting in the house crying in his beer. Last week his dad tweeted something about building a studio. I’m thinking it could have been in Kris’ new home. Maybe he’s going to record his own music. Who knows? But he seems excited. And if he’s excited, I won’t worry about getting any more gray hairs.

    Congrats to Kris for shedding yet another tight girdle.   One door closes, another door opens.   I think a door is about to be opened for him. Onward and upward.

    I feel bad for those who are still stuck with RCA. They are no longer a force to be reckoned with.

  • http://twitter.com/doesmonaknow DoesMonaKnow

    “The path has never been clearer to me.” “Things are only gonna get more fun”. Hmmmm. Something substantial in the works or typical “this is only just the beginning” talk? The path seems pretty murky actually but there could be a lot going on behind the scenes that we don’t know of course…

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

     This tweet says that Kris knows what he’s doing and as I said I don’t necessarily think it was RCA’s decision.   I think Kris made the decision

    Sure, except that major-label contracts are written so that it’s the label that makes the call on picking up the option for the next album, and the recording artist has no way to just walk away midway through an album cycle.

    This fact is well-documented in many, many publicly available sources. The idea that Idols with major-label contracts have the ability to end the contract at will is a fan myth.

    As I said a few weeks ago when Pia Toscano was dropped by Interscope, being dropped can be very happy news for the artist. If the label has no idea how to develop the artist, or wants the artist to do something the artist doesn’t like, then being dropped means being freed to pursue directions that the artist is happy about and that perhaps have a realistic chance of achieving the artist’s goals. Yes, there’s less certainty of support without the major-label contract, but if you have ideas about what you want to try, it can be a very hopeful time.

  • girlygirltoo

    It has been shown time and time again that twitter followers have little to do with how successful an artist will be in terms of sales. For example, Justin Bieber has over 28 million followers on twitter — but as of June 2012, his sales for the 3 albums he has released to date was approx. 15 million. Still an excellent total, to be sure, but less than 55% of his total twitter followers. Bruno Mars has over 11 million twitter followers — the worldwide sales for his current album are 6 million. Again, an excellent total if taken on its own merits, but less than 55% of his total twitter followers. Adam has more than 1.6 million twitter followers, but the worldwide sales for his current album are less than 1/3 of that total. Etc. etc. etc. Kris sold more copies of his debut album (more than 346K according to this THR article) than he has current twitter followers (abt. 284K). But he has probably only sold 30K or so of his current album. It seems pretty clear that just because someone follows you on twitter (or Facebook or whatever other social media tool), there is no guarantee that they will support your career with their $$$.

  • LVD

    You must not follow Kris because he did a TON of radio shows/gigs all over the country pretty much non stop after Idol. I know David Cook also had a very long tour post Idol and Adam has also done plenty of radio gigs and shows. To say these guys aren’t working hard is just not true in my opinion. 

    I think they all work very, very hard once they are removed from idol. I might be wrong but from what I ve seen with Kris for example if I recall correctly, he had like 5 gigs or something in a month’s time, a month or so before his album was released. What I ve also seen with many people from idol is that they mostly go for higher profile gigs. Like debuting the single on idol ext. While most new artists starting out would be doing lots of lower profile type of gigs. There is usually a ladder that you need to climb, people from idol often seem to try and skip some steps from the ladder.
    What I ve also seen with Kris is that he did a lot of promo aimed at his idol fanbase, like lots of interviews with Yahoo music for example. 
    An artist might perhaps be better served by doing grassroot gigs instead of promotion that are more aimed at their existing idol fanbase. 
    He and David didn’t keep on doing a lot of gigs while they where busy making their second albums. CaseyJ still did just as many gigs while making his album he properly did over 70 radio gigs alone and many basic bar gigs even, people in the industry often comment about how hard working he is, it seem to create a bit of respect, which is often something that people coming from idol dont have. It isn’t a big thing really, but it is just a small way for new people to see you. Radio stations also often advertise these small gigs which means they still get to hear from you and they can see you are working at it. It is difficult to drum up some sort of buzz all of a suddenly for an album when an artist haven’t even been doing many shows.  
    I think both Kris and David Cook have been suffering in this regard, and it all goes back to their management, I am pretty sure these guys would be more then willing to work hard, but their management haven’t provided the gigs or the right type of gigs for them. Especially with the type of artists they are, they are simple guys who plays with a band and instruments and who properly does a lot more at live shows then on their studio recordings, people need to see them in an intimate settings. I think it would be easier for them to create a different fanbase by creating a bit of a tour circuit. It does take time but it might create a more genuine fanbase in the long run. 

    But, I don’t think that the single selling less than 10,000 copies a week means that he is gaining new fans.  I’d buy that theory a little more, if people were buying the album.  I just think that in the age of digital downloads, and maybe always, that it takes more than one song to make someone into a fan.  There have been alums who have sold more copies of songs than what Casey is selling, but they weren’t able to convert all of those people into fans, Kris, and the David’s come to mind.

    I agree it is a continues effort, sales and radio play also plays off against each other. But guys like Kris Allen and David Cook didn’t really do a lot while they where busy with their second albums, they both already had quite decent sized hits, so they just needed to build on that. 
    Selling 10k a week depends on who you are talking about, country singles doesn’t always sell as much as pop singles. Kris Allen, and David Cook for example had those big hits basically in the same year as when they where on idol. Someone like Casey is already more then two years removed, he just simply doesn’t have that big fanbase, his current journey is more compatible in a way to other idols who are on their second albums, just without any previous history of success.  
    With his first single he sold 5k copies in the first week that show how big his core fanbase was at that stage, and later when the single was selling at its best it was selling 5k copies a week. So for some one like him to now sell 10k a week while his single has just begun to take off is a difference. 
    But at the end of the day it isn’t just necessarily about building a fanbase outside of idol or creating a whole new fanbase for yourself, you also need to capture or market yourself to the casual fans of the genre you are in, if you really want to hit big sales, and this can often be very hit and miss.

    Personally in my opinion I think both Kris Allen and David Cook have shown that they can do well I mean they did both have hits at one point, but I think their management didn’t really support them in the correct manner. But all of that is just a casual observation from an outsider, I didn’t watch S7 or S8 so I am not invested, it is just all just a casual observation.    

    I hope Kris does well in the future, I did actually like his single Vision of Love, and thought it did have some potential. 
     

  • girlygirltoo

    It is a very classy statement. It is also similar to what David Cook said after he parted ways with RCA. We may never know whether Kris fulfilled his contract and wanted out, if RCA agreed to a request to release him from a contract that still had time and/or albums left on it, or if he simply got dropped. When this happens, the immediate thought is “he/she got dropped” and that is probably the case. It doesn’t really matter, since the end result is still the same. And like David C, Kris is smart in not burning any bridges, because who knows whether he might work with some of these label execs in the future.

  • Trina

    Every single time an Idol with crappy sales numbers gets dropped there’s always speculation that it was their decision and I never, ever believe it. When the day comes someone like Kelly or Chris D “parts ways” then I’ll believe the decision was mutual. Does anyone honestly believe RCA had intentions of keeping Kris or that they had big plans for him?

    “The path has never been clearer to me.” “Things are only gonna get more
    fun”. Hmmmm. Something substantial in the works or typical “this is
    only just the beginning” talk? The path seems pretty murky actually but
    there could be a lot going on behind the scenes that we don’t know of
    course…

    What is he going to say? “I have no idea what the future holds”? “I’m so pissed and upset”? Especially when there’s a bunch of upset fans on Twitter expressing sadness. I have zero clue if he has big plans (from what I read here hes touring?) but I dont think ANY of these people who get dropped would ever say anything to upset their fans any further regardless.

  • judes

    MissMyEm -I am also quite happy with Kris parting ways from RCA. If as you say he is building a recording studio -that’d be great for his future music[if Dave Grohl can do it so can Kris]
    I received this message on Facebook from Kris & also thought that it seems he is in a very good place & very excited for what the future holds.Us fans should be just as positive for him!

  • Ratna12

    Best wishes for Kris, always. <333

  • http://twitter.com/doesmonaknow DoesMonaKnow

    I don’t know, “the path has never been clearer to me” doesn’t seem as open ended as something like, “I’m looking forward to the future” or “On to the next adventure”, although it’s all probably just recently-dropped artist speak. Or he could be telegraphing some actual news on the professional or personal front. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002166668687 Ali Goria

    I’m sure RCA has numbers and doesn’t have to go on “around 2000 per week” to guess at indications. And I’m sure they know how to factor in international reporting and anomalies. Like lags. 

    For us, there may not be published sales figures but there are charting numbers on Wiki and Trespassing charted in 20 countries. Top 20 in 14 countries, and top 10 in 8 of them. 

    On Wiki, powerhouse seller Kelly’s Stronger charted Top 20 in fewer countries (10). and fewer Top 10 in 6 countries. Yes I know it’s “Wiki” blah blah blah but I’m comparing both of their Wikis instead of searching the web as a baseline.

    Trespassing peaked in Japan at 15 while Stronger peaked in Japan at 59.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespassing_(album) 

    No doubt she outsold him in units I guess, and always will, the point is there are some sales there. And some demand. They just announced Adam will be on the finale of The Voice in China – with 120 million viewers on TV and 400 million online. 

    So I don’t see the comparison with Kris’s history, popularity and relative success. Or Kellie who’s current album has sold half of Trespassing in the US. Or even Cook who’s latest album at 130K has been out a whole year longer than Trespassing and didn’t do anything internationally either. Also didn’t his singles peak slightly higher on radio than Cooks? Im not positive about that but Adam’s NCOE at least peaked at 6 on Billboard Hot Dance chart. Which IMO, again, is not too shabby considering it’s radio play and just shows that if people HEAR music they might actually LIKE it. :)

  • escape

    The hardcore fact is that no Idol who got dropped, has ever resurfaced to have even a bigger career. It is always better to be with a major label. They have more money, resources, connections.

    But whether it is Kris or David Cook, etc., etc. they will continue to have careers in music. But their promotional opportunities will now be different than a Scotty McCreery or a Phillip Phillips.  And the same thing would apply to SM or PP if they are dropped down the road.

  • roarpen

     How many albums has Adam sold? I would think he would hit 300,000 between domestic and international sales? Is there any info out there about sales and international sales? He has to hit at least 200k domestically – but maybe not. They sure spent a boatload on promotion initially.

  • wordnerdarchie

    LVD, you make some good observations.  It caused me to go and look at David Cook’s appearances over the course of the last 3 years.  What popped out at me was the lack of promo in 2010. I think you got it right.

    Cook’s 1st tour ran from Feb. 13 2009 into December of 2009.  During that
    time he had over 154 concerts plus radio interviews before some of those.  Then there was a short break over the holiday, after which he went into song writing in 2010.  Some of those sessions were overseas such as in the UK and Sweden.

    However, there does seem to be a noticeable lack of any radio contacts or other forms of promo with the media during this time.  There are some charity appearances in 2010, such as RfH, Ronald McDonald House, Chris Evert Tennis.  There was supposed to be a nationally televised appearance at US Tennis Championships which was not shown because of a rainout.  He did appear twice on Idol that year.  This bears out your observation regarding bigger appearances & Idol connections.  His appearances are all listed in this blog.  http://www.davidcookofficial.com/us/blog/archive

    In 2011, the year of his 2nd CD release, things pick up again with over 54
    radio appearances/interviews as well as some tv appearances.  But as you say, it looks like to me that the time between 1st & 2nd record, as well as the summer following his 2nd release, is very noticeably short of promo.  Some of this is management related, some is label. 

    If we look at Kris’s promo history, we might see some of the same gaps.
    I really like Kris. He does a great live show. I thought TYC had some great songs that should have played well on radio. The way radio is controlled by a couple of big corporations doesn’t help if they’re not behind you. I don’t know what you can do to change that.

  • Eileen99

    Good luck to Kris.  I love his music & personality.  Looking forward to whatever comes next.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    at lease NCOE peaked at 6 on Billboard Hot Dance chart. Which IMO, again, is not too shabby considering it’s radio play and just shows that if people HEAR music they might actually LIKE it.

    Um… the chart on which NCOE peaked at #6 was Hot Dance Club Play. It’s not a radio chart. It measures play at dance clubs, as reported by the house DJs. I was TOTALLY in favor of NCOE being promoted to dance clubs and thought it should be have been done FIRST, rather than what the label did in trying radio first… but let’s be accurate about what it measures.

    I’m sure RCA has numbers and doesn’t have to go on “around 2000 per week” to guess at indications. And I’m sure they know how to factor in international reporting and anomalies.

    I’m sure they do, too. But there’s no mathematical way to turn a middling chart peak in a very small market (with only a few weeks on the chart) into 5,000+ in total sales in that country. RCA’s numbers are more precise than mine, but the difference between selling 1,500 albums in a given country and selling 1,550 still won’t get the total from ~50-75k to 150k internationally.

  • Oksana4626

    I thought that this thread is about Kris and not Adam sales.
    But what do I know…

  • LVD

    Sony obviously is cleaning house with regards to their Idol roster.  I doubt Kris will be the last.Look at what happened to Kelli Pickler.  All it took was one CD that didn’t work, even though she’s had several years of success with Sony.

    Kellie Pickler’s problem was squarely with radio, and actually Sony really did try to promote her and they did really try to generate radio play for her. But her last album had a very traditional country sound, and that sound is not currently popular for female artists. So that made it more difficult for them. 

    But her problems actually started before this latest album, she was also struggling with airplay on the previous album. Radio is very, very important in country it is impossible to promote someone without it. It is already difficult to get airplay for many solo female country artists at the same time, and with the traditional direction of Kellie Picklers album, it was even harder. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    First-week sales are usually the highest week, unless there’s some additional driver for sales. Since TSP didn’t stay on the international charts very long, it’s pretty safe to assume that sales after the first week were incremental.

    Of course, the first week is usually the highest week. If you look at the 77K TSP sold the first week in the US, it has more than doubled its first week number in four months. If you take 30K from just the three countries and double it, you have 60K from just those three. That 60K isn’t including any physical album sales from Japan or any numbers from China, Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, South Africa, Brazil, Australia, NZ, Denmark, Netherlands, South Korea, Czech Republic, Portugal, Russia, Hungary, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines. 

    If Trespassing sold an average of only 2,000 copies in four months in these countries where it has appeared on the album charts, that would be at the very minimum another 40K. That would bring the overall total to a very conservative estimate of 100K in international sales and there is still promo scheduled overseas and a new single to be released, not to mention an international tour.

    The bottom line is RCA knows all the numbers. If they weren’t happy with the totals, they would have pulled the plug on singles and promo three months ago. Unfortunately, this is what they did with Kris after they saw the numbers from the first month or so and after the lead single failed to take off or sell many downloads. RCA has continued to promote TSP, so this tells us they are satisfied with the numbers enough at this point to make this choice.

  • mtlfan2

    Like everyone I’m not surprised by the news; it’s a business first of all.
    I’m optimistic though like I always been for Kris because he’s an excellent songwriter and artist. He can write music and that’s what will make him stay around in the business. Idol was the best opportunity for him to grow and meet peers. With his second album, he got that opportunity to have a big hand in the production and that is golden because it will make him only better in this regard.  
    Success in the idol bubble is limited, one retains a core of fans but the rest is highly volatil like we can see year after year. Some artists take years to gain more recognition and they do so with a hit song(s).  I do believe Kris is able to write hit songs and it has not happened yet – or maybe he’ll write a hit song for someone else. Maybe i’m way too optimistic (lol) but I’m a believer :)   

  • durbesque

    Idols become obsolete as the shiny new models roll off the assembly line.  I admit it, I’m fickle.  Kris was my favorite for a while, but then James came along with that voice!  So far, he’s holding steady, as I go through my “Home” phase.       

  • roarpen

    Well, not unexpected about Kris, but unfortunate. I like Kris.

  • siennalily

    I have very mixed feelings about this news. For one thing, I’m wondering about the recent single news and why this was publicized when surely they already knew that Kris was dropped by RCA. I admit that I’m sad that we won’t be hearing Kris on the radio and I realize that,unless another label is on the horizon, his future prospects on that front are not good.

    On the other hand, as an artist this is probably the best news that there could be for Kris. He will be allowed to spread his wings and with his talent there will be some amazing music to look forward to from him. My hope is that his fans will continue to support him and that he will be able to make music for many years to come. I wish him all of the luck in the world.

  • girlygirltoo

    I’m not positive, but I don’t think the Hot Dance chart has to do with radio play. Isn’t that called the Hot Dance/Club chart and has to do with data gathered from play in actual clubs, not on the radio?

  • Kitwana

    Escape, I agree that no Idol dropped by a major label has ever gone on to have a bigger career. However, outside of Idol stars, this has happened. Examples include Katy Perry, Jonas Brothers, Alanis Morissette and even Joy Williams from the Civil Wars. All lost major label deals but came back bigger. I do think it helps that they lost their labels when young. All enjoyed their initial success in their late teens and early 20’s and all except Joy Williams made their big “comeback” in their early to mid-20’s by “reinventing” themselves as artists. Joy left her label at 22 and made her big comeback at 28. I think it’s harder to credibly reinvent yourself as you get older. So, I think there is still hope for bigger things for Idols who have left major labels, particularly the younger ones.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=195101108 Stefan Wind

    I wish Kris much success and hope he finds what he needs from a smaller label that will actually care about their artists.

  • girlygirltoo

    I got this off of Kworb’s site. It is the current  iTunes ranks for Trespassing (the album). These are the only countries where it is currently charting in the Top 1000:

    Trespassing (album)
    #190 Nicaragua
    #311 Spain
    #315 Hong Kong
    #349 Finland
    #350 Singapore

    http://kworb.net/itunes/adamlambert.html 

    Compare that to how Kelly’s album is currently doing on the various int’l itunes charts:

    Stronger (the album)
    #40 Singapore
    #109 Thailand
    #130 Venezuela
    #152 Malaysia
    #158 Switzerland
    #169 Ireland
    #169 Hong Kong
    #202 United States
    #205 Australia
    #234 Norway
    #238 Taiwan
    #264 Denmark
    #347 Netherlands
    #356 Finland
    #361 Canada
    #371 United Kingdom
    #386 Latvia
    #397 Lithuania

    http://kworb.net/itunes/kellyclarkson.html

    Or Carrie…

    Blown Away (the album)
    #43 Canada
    #47 United States
    #300 Bolivia
    #322 Australia
    #324 Honduras
    #383 Philippines

    http://kworb.net/itunes/carrieunderwood.html

  • http://twitter.com/Quu3 Q3

    Yes, Hot Dance/Club Chart is about club play, not radio. But very influential on sales and radio airplay.

  • elliegrll

    If Trespassing sold an average of only 2,000 copies in four months in these countries 

    The problem with just throwing this figure out is that in some of those countries, this is probably what Trespassing sold the first week.  For some of the countries, this would be a good week.  The album started off with 7,000 in both the UK and Japan, so I doubt that it’s selling 2,000 a week in those countries now.   It’s just speculation that’s based on first week sales, and in some cases, Itunes rankings.

    Besides we know which countries sell the most albums, and we know what’s usual for some of the smaller countries.  Trespassing doesn’t seem to be making a dent in the top markets.

  • girlygirltoo

    It certainly didn’t help that Kris did very few gigs/appearances while working on TYC. He had a few shows and other events here and there, but not anything high profile. Maybe once the album was done (which I assume was well before his show at The Mint in February) he should have done a bunch of dates to preview the music. I think it also would have helped if RCA had released two singles before the album dropped — one in fall 2011 and one in spring 2012. They had been talking about TVOL on twitter since the summer of 2011, so it was obviously ready to go well before it was actually released in March 2012.

    But that’s all woulda shoulda coulda — water under the bridge and all the other cliches. Best to just try and look forward now :)

  • elliegrll

    LVD, you make some good observations.  It caused me to go and look at David Cook’s appearances over the course of the last 3 years.  What popped out at me was the lack of promo in 2010. I think you got it right.

    The two Davids’ vanishing act in the year and a half or more before their albums came out, made me question why Kris did the same thing, especially when he knew that he wasn’t as popular as those two, so he could pretty much guarantee that his album would meet a fate that was worse than their’s.  

    It reminds me of a stat that came out around November or October of 2010, that’s when Brian Mansfield received a lot of sales numbers for albums that were out of the Billboard 200.  I believe that for that week David Cook’s first album sold around 1100 copies.  Kris’ album, which would have been out for less than a year at the time, had sold 1100 copies total since the last update that Brian had received, which would have been at least three months prior.

    Ignoring 19’s incompetence and just not giving a damn about Kris, I don’t see how any of the other people involved see something like that, and don’t address it before releasing the next album.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    A current chart doesn’t help to determine sales numbers from four months ago now. We need all the charts for everyday for the first month of TSP’s release in all twenty-five or so countries that were listed. Also, we would need the album charts for overall sales for all these countries over a 2-4 week period, not just iTunes placement.

  • http://twitter.com/shoriagirl Shoriagirl

    Seriously, people, artists usually don’t make appearances between albums. 

    Look at Kelly Clarkson – she is practically invisible most of the time.  She doesn’t go to any red carpets, she is not in the tabloids, she is not mugging paparazzi. However, right before her album comes out the media is flooded with Kelly: magazine covers, TV, radio station interviews etc. etc. Kelly doesn’t book it herself, it is done by her management and by her label. I can’t believe you blaming Kris for lack of promo.  He did his job – write and record music.  Promotion of music is a job of the label and the management.RCA did absolutely nothing for Kris. Nothing! I am happy that he is no longer with these people.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    No, TSP started out with 7,800 in the UK and 11,500 (digital only) in Japan for the first week. I know these numbers are for the first week and that is exactly what I and others have stated. I did not say that TSP is selling 2,000 a week at this point. This was my comment concerning the 2,000:

    “If Trespassing sold an average of only 2,000 copies in four months in these countries where it has appeared on the album charts…”

    That means 2,000 TOTAL per country over a four month period, as in less than 200 copies a week on average.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/57KPQ4K7HIGPGR7PDW333QMZJQ Steppen

    I didn’t finish reading all the posts on the thread, but I get a feeling from reading the posts on this and other threads that people on this site seem to have a false expectation on what American Idol is supposed to do. As I see it, American Idol has always been about finding an Idol, a persona with star quality and charisma, that’s worthy of people idolizing. During the season, the show builds for each contestant with such potential a persona, fuels it with media frenzy, and markets the winner(s) as such when they do win. The contracts the winners signed with labels and 19M are based on that persona. It’s up to the artist to take advantage of that, and build on it. Alums who are successful carrying through that are indeed stars or idols that fit into that persona. That does that mean that alums who are not successful are not good singers, have no recognizable talents, or have no potential being a star. It just means that the persona that AI built was not the right fit. Through AI, I’m sure the artists have gained far more connections than prior to the AI exposure. If they indeed are good singer or have unique talents, they will have gained many many music partners along the way. People are not stupid, if they see talent, they will work with you. I am sorry, I believe Kris is a great musician, but a star, an idol? I’m not sure he wants it either. So good for Kris, time to make your own fate. Good luck with you.  

  • girlygirltoo

    people were asking about how it is selling now.

    and there are archives on Kworb’s site that you can search to find the ranks for an artist in any week:   http://kworb.net/aww/archive/

  • http://twitter.com/Quu3 Q3

    For once, it would be nice to have an event occur in Kris’ career that
    is not linked to Adam Lambert. Even the THR article about RCA dropping
    Kris start with the fact that Kris beat Adam because I guess that
    remains the most notable thing in Kris’s career. Too bad the opening sentence does not start with a reference to Kris’ mega hit……

    I am truly sad that Kris was dropped because I like him and think he is talented. But the comparisons between Kris and Adam’s relative commercial success puzzle me. Aside from being on the same season of Idol, what do they have in common? Their careers are a different as night and day.

    Fans have no idea how much revenue and profit an album project generated. We can look at partial sales but not much more. For example, how much licensing revenue did RCA receive from an album? Or how many units were sold in Russia? Or Ukraine? Or China? There is not even comprehensive retail sales reporting in Japan, Germany, France or Canada. Week one UK sales mean little since HMV was out of stock after the first day — as was most of the country.

    I have no idea what Trespassing’s international sales are but I am certain it is not as simple as totaling up week one sales reports and adding a bit.

    Since RCA is in the process of releasing (and is actively promoting) a new single from Trespassing and Adam is heading off to do concerts in China, Australia, South Africa and the US to promote the album, what sign is there that Adam is at risk of being dropped by RCA? None.

  • elliegrll

    Seriously, people, artists usually don’t make appearances between albums.

    Some do.  But, my thing has always been that I don’t care what other people have done before, each artist has to address the situation that they are in, and the obstacles that they are facing.  It’s why I wanted Kris to release Heartless, during the AI tour.  It would have changed the topic that was surrounding him, and introduced him to more people outside of the bubble.    

    Kris’ situation was that: from the the end of 2010 to all of 2011 he wasn’t getting a lot of airplay.  

    The sales for his first album showed the first single didn’t do a good job of selling the alum or selling Kris.  

    He was dealing with a problem with his image. He failed to be known as anything other than the season 8 AI winner, people outside of his AI fans didn’t have a clue about what type of music he was releasing, and he had the label of being boring.

    There’s more, but what I’m trying to say that this isn’t the situation that Carrie Underwood was facing when she was working on her second album, and had four or five songs that were getting recurrent play, so people were still being exposed to her and her music.  This is someone, who we knew going into the second album, didn’t have a big fanbase, and was going to have trouble getting airplay, so all of the things that I mentioned needed to be addressed.

    At the very least, efforts should have been made to try and get him a featured appearance on someone’s single, I know that that is easier said than done, but in a way, I don’t understand why put so much hard work into making an album, but fail to do anything to help it get heard.

  • lovetheusa1776

    Listening to Kris’s music here – love TMHLG and LYA – really lovely.  Sorry to hear he’s on his own now – makes it so much harder to get the music out.  For whatever reason, he didn’t sell enough for the suits, so bye bye.  He sounds cheerful and forward-looking in his statement – hope it’s so, but it’s really got to be disappointing. 

    And thanks everyone for the stats – thought I was in the wrong thread for a minute.  Especially about AFL – even the Kris fans know a heckuva lot more than I do. 

    Could see Kris in a movie.

  • ANNIEBA

    Sorry for Kris, I’m sure he’ll be alright. He will probably be happier if he can get on an indie label.

  • http://twitter.com/Quu3 Q3

     All kworb’s charts include are iTunes sales.

    Since iTunes represents only a small percentage of Adam’s global sales,
    <10% ?, what can be learned from kworb's iTunes charts about total
    worldwide sales?

  • http://twitter.com/krismicklin Linda Parish

    Thank you for saying that.  This is what I was thinking too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002166668687 Ali Goria

    Always interesting to see the different expectations of different Idols and measure of “success”. 

    If I’m not mistaken, Kellie sold around 1,400,000 units of total albums in 6 years. Her 3 albums on Billboard 100 peaked: 9,9, and 7.

     Her 9 singles peaked no higher than 46 on Billboard 200. No Grammy noms or awards, right? (yes I see her other awards and am happy for her)

    OTOH, Lambert sold around 1,099,000 total RCA albums US (plus the bas!ard Take One 42,000 lol) in less than 3 years. 

    Both of his major albums peaked higher at 3 and 1 on Billboard 200. 

    Two of 5 singles peaked higher than hers on Billboard Hot 100 including a #10. Then there’s the Grammy nom. 

    I don’t know who puts this Wiki together but it ranks Lambert as the 5th digital download single seller of all the Idols – higher than Cook and Kellie. AND the second album is only 4 months old. His sales are less than half of Jordin’s though (she’s in #4).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idol_alumni_single_sales 

    So at least on paper, if Kellie had “several years of success” with Sony, I’d have to say Adam has, too. And moreso because everything he does still gets tons of press. But you may be right it could take just one floppy album in today’s climate. I agree that press doesn’t put coin in RCA’s bank. But maybe they need to look in the mirror for that – for all the artists. Unless they’re getting a piece of some of his appearances like the upcoming China gig. Probably worth a nice chunk of change but I’d think that is similar to a one off – there isn’t all that much info yet that I’ve seen.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002166668687 Ali Goria

    “Um… the chart on which NCOE peaked at #6 was Hot Dance Club Play. It’s not a radio chart. It measures play at dance clubs, as reported by the house DJs.”

    Um, did I say it was a radio chart? I said Hot Dance chart. It’s a Billboard chart. So other than my omitting the words “Club Play” I don’t understand your point. 

    MY POINT was that considering radio didn’t play the song, the song still was popular in CLUBS. Isn’t that obvious? Or maybe you thought I thought there was a secret magic DJ dance club radio station network?

    Regarding your parsing of sales, as you see I was responding to wordnerdarchie comment that RCA was guessing at Adam’s viability based on “around 2000 per week”, I wasn’t referring to anything you said.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002166668687 Ali Goria

    Well it always happens that Adam invariably comes up as “next to be dropped” with statements of past and future failures and I guess it’s supposed to go unaddressed? 

    As if there is ANY comparison between their respective careers. Adam hasn’t been off a plane in like, 5 months, sang to a crowd of 350K LIVE etc etc. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    I thought 19 did a pretty good job of keeping Kris out there with various charity gigs, events and contests geared towards kids and music in the schools, and singing the NA at sporting events. They also used TVOL for a clear channel commercial and sent out remixes.

    RCA basically sucks with their timing of releasing singles and albums. Why they don’t do things in a timely manner, I’ll never understand. As a whole, they seem to stick to their old ways of doing things when other record labels are trying to adapt to the everchanging market.
    IMO, RCA has screwed over many talented artists in various ways and will continue to do so as long as they stick to their archaic ideas. I truly hate that so many talented Idols have had their contracts cut short due to the inadequacies on the part of RCA.

  • Incipit

     …being dropped can be very happy news for the artist. If the label has no idea how to develop the artist, or wants the artist to do something the artist doesn’t like, then being dropped means being freed to pursue directions that the artist is happy about and that perhaps have a realistic chance of achieving the artist’s goals. Yes, there’s less certainty of support without the major-label contract, but if you have ideas about what you want to try, it can be a very hopeful time.

    Eilonwy, I have to agree; that was the ‘vibe’ I got from Kris’s classy message, and I don’t even think he was being disingenuous. I’ve heard it before, and I even have some examples in mind.

     I’ve seen it said that no artist would willingly walk away from a Major Label contract, but that’s not true, as happens with many absolute statements. One could look at Kelly Clarkson refusing not one, but two Label offers, because of the plans they had for her as a “product”, and Raine Maida of OLP is the classic case of an artist leaving a label (Columbia) to go Independent in 2006 – but the latest was the case of GRO (Green River Ordinance), and what happened when their label (Capitol Records) blew a deadline to renew their contract in 2010. When the label offered a new contract, with conditions the band found unacceptable, they were free to walk away – and the tone of their messages about this was rather pleased. They also left with a classy farewell – went to KickStarter, raised the funding to do the music they wanted to do, and created an album that “would not have been possible if the band was still signed with Capitol”. They were “…freed to pursue directions that the artist is happy about and that perhaps have a realistic chance of achieving the artist’s goals.”As you say. 

    Kris has options, the ability to do things that achieve his goals – and he has proven to be a rather clever self starter.( As with the DIY video he did with his band.) After all – the most buzz he had recently, he created himself – hitting up the Santa Monica Pier one Sunday afternoon when he was jonesing to perform his music – and his Management was not arranging gigs, he made his own. 

    There is always going to be a dichotomy between an organization that is looking to make the most money possible, and an artist who is looking to share the most music possible  – if he wants another label, I hope he finds a better fit – and his new management has a better clue – but I think Kris will be happy making music, no matter what.

    JMO. Of Course.

  • too-cool-for-school

    The lack of promotion and buzz wasn’t ever his fault. Could he have been more aggressive? Maybe, but how would you suggest? I don’t really know what more he could have done without the cooperation of his management.

    His music didn’t make the label money and so this separation was only a matter of time. Major labels won’t keep anyone around that has poor sales, or spend a lot of money promoting someone that doesn’t have a huge following.

    I’ve done my share of ranting in the past about how they failed him in terms of promotion, but it all seems irrelevant now. I’m happy he was able to record the two albums with them, and this doesn’t have to be the end. I know he will find something and it won’t be the last we hear from him. Go Kris! :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jennifer-Redlich/1643474030 Jennifer Redlich

    Adam Lambert is in absolutely no danger of being dropped by RCA. Why is that even being discussed here? I thought this was about Kris. Adam, as said by Brian May and Roger Taylor…is 1 in 100 Million. That’s how great a singer he is. He performed for millions with Queen, is on his way to China to perform in front of 80,000, then off to Australia, and then massive shows in South Africa. He is an international artist, since his sexual orientation makes it very difficult for him to receive radio play domestically. 5 years from now, Adam will be one of the biggest stars on the planet. Talent like his cannot be denied. I wish Kris well. I was never a fan of his, and always considered him to be an average singer/songwriter. Btw….FYE has sold 2 million+ copies world wide and Trespassing is closing in on 1 million ww. RCA knows that Adam is a challenge to market, yet they also know he is hands down the most brilliant artist on their roster. I don’t give a crap what his sales figures are.

  • girlygirltoo

    There are a lot of successful indie labels that actually have some pretty big names on their rosters (the most obvious one being Adele on XL Recordings). Who knows? — maybe he’ll land with one of those labels. Or maybe he’ll release his music on his own, funding it through Kick Starter or in some similar way. Or maybe he’ll focus on trying to get more placements/cuts for his songs?

    There are a lot of ways he could go. Kris is very level headed and likely has a good idea of what he wants to try to do next. I doubt this “parting of the ways” came out of the blue — I would bet he’s known about it  — or at least suspected — for weeks now. He’s got a bunch of shows coming up, and those will go on, label or no label. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jennifer-Redlich/1643474030 Jennifer Redlich

    I am reading more comments about Adam here than Kris. Why do so many of you want him to fail? Trust me, he will be with RCA as long as he wants and his star is rising. Adam has critical acclaim world wide. The sales will eventually catch up to his talent. He has brought in so much money this year from his Queen tour alone ~ Top 10 grossing tours this year, according to Forbes.  

  • Karen C

    There’s more, but what I’m trying to say that this isn’t the situation that Carrie Underwood was facing when she was working on her second album, and had four or five songs that were getting recurrent play, so people were still being exposed to her and her music. This is someone, who we knew going into the second album, didn’t have a big fanbase, and was going to have trouble getting airplay, so all of the things that I mentioned needed to be addressed.

    But maybe this is what they are doing wrong with the recent idols.  Other new artists seem to get more singles released from their albums, even if one or two don’t do well they release another one.  Yes, they released 3 singles and only one was successful, the second one didn’t do that well, and the third one did worse, but there was little attempt to promote the third single.  If it were another new artist that they were trying to build, they would have somehow gotten more of a push with their singles. 

  • Karen C

    He has brought in so much money this year from his Queen tour alone ~ Top 10 grossing tours this year, according to Forbes.  

    How much money that was brought in with the Queen shows would have nothing to do with his contract with RCA and how his album is doing, though.  But, if his album is selling almost 1 million worldwide, despite US sales, he might be doing ok as far as RCA is concerned.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jennifer-Redlich/1643474030 Jennifer Redlich

    Of course it does. First of all, RCA will get a cut of what Adam made from the Queen tour. Secondly, the massive critical acclaim Adam received – unequivocally – from the awesomeness of his Queen performances is a feather in RCA’s cap. Simon Fuller went to two nights in London. Adam is a star and on his way to being a mega star. He has some challenges, especially in the USA, but his enormous talent is undeniable. RCA isn’t gonna let go of those bragging rights in a million years. Adam is on his way to China to perform on the Season Finale of The Voice. Venue – 80,000. Projected viewership of the show – half a million. How many albums you think Adam will sell in China after this event? Tons!

  • blackberryharvest

     Sad to hear this, but expected it to happen sooner or later. It can be very tough post idol, especially for those who win, one minute you have it all, only to have something important snatched right from their hands the next. There is no doubt Kris wanted to stay on his label-I remember him saying in an interview that people would ask him, “So when do you get to get out of that idol/19/label contract?” and he said that he says “Hopefully never.”

    But its not the end of the world. He will continue to make music and do what he loves. He also seems to have a passionate fan base who will keep supporting him for years to come. He will be fine.

  • RemusL

    Personally, I think the era of major music labels is over and has been for a while. Yeah, most of the big names are still on major labels but all artists have long ago realized that they no longer need major label backing to have a steady career in music. With the internet, YouTube, Kickstarter and the ability to make high quality recordings on limited budgets, we’re seeing more and more artists doing things themselves.

    So not a surprise that Kris and RCA have parted ways. If a major label can’t get him pop radio airplay, then what real reason is there to stay with it? And if RCA’s criteria for keeping Kris is gold record album and single sales, then the partnership makes no sense for the label either.

    I love Thank You Camellia and feel it’s way better than his first studio album but I was lukewarm on Vision of Love being the single they promoted off the album. I think Better With You would have been a superior choice.

  • lilly924

    Why are there 6 pages on this topic and half of them are about Adam? I thought this was a topic about Kris. I mean, c’mon. Why is he brought into every conversation? 

    Kris is not my thing, but I certainly wish him well. In this musical climate, and as a long time fan of Idol, I don’t want to see any Idol alumni dropped by their label. For every Idol dropped, Idol’s reputation for producing music stars goes down. For every success story, whether they’re your favorite or not, makes Idol stock go up. That’s why the show has lasted 11 years. Unfortunately, the last few years, Idol has lost sight of what they are supposed to be about, and really lost their way this year with stunt judge casting. When the focus was taken off the contestants a couple of years ago and started focusing more on judges drama, the show started going down. You can’t argue with ratings. And they’re going down cause fans of the show are no longer getting from the show what they used to get from the show. Earlier years of the shows, previous contestants were brought back more and their success was celebrated and they were kept in the public eye to help them with their career. Now, that only happens for a select few. The alumni have to share the spotlight with every other musical act out there that wants to appear and sell their records. Screw the alumni. The trend in bringing in multi-million dollar celebrity judges that Idol has now adopted from X Factor and The Voice is going to kill the show. These judges will come in, make their millions off of young singers trying to break into the business, only to basically be ignored by radio and the rest of the music industry when they get off the show. That’s what’s happening now and I don’t see that changing. Look for Idol to last 2 more seasons. We all should be celebrating the successful alumni, whether we like them or not, and offer our support to those who are falling on harder times, basically having to start over again. I certainly don’t see anything advantageous coming out of dancing on the graves of the fallen Idols. Not really classy. And definitely not what the Idol family is supposed to be about. 

  • lovetheusa1776

    irockhard was the first to bring up Adam’s stats into the conversation.  About his singles being flops, etc.   Unnecessary, but that’s what, I believe, started the Adam will be the next to be dropped conversation.

    In fact, if I’m not mistaken, it was an Adam fan who asked why he was being brought into the conversation since it was a Kris thread.

    No one here, skimming through the thread, was “dancing” on the grave of Kris that I could see.  Most seemed concerned and wished him the best, as do I.

  • irockhard

    The body count for 2012 so far: Cook, Pickler, Toscano and now Allen.

  • irockhard

    Artists who are still trying to establish themselves need to get themselves out there as much as possible. It’s not rocket science, the further down the career ladder you are the less opportunities are handed to you, the harder you have to work. If the label and management aren’t doing enough then the artists have to find additional ways to promote themselves. Kelly is established, she can afford to take breaks.

  • irockhard

    When did Adam sign a 360 deal with RCA?

  • irockhard

    In response to another poster who asked who on a sony label is in most danger of being dropped next. I simply replied to a post, that’s it. I don’t have a horse in the “Kris vs Adam” race.

  • bridgette12

    It’s kind of sad that a thread about Kris being dropped from his label, turned into a thread about Adam. It’s a shame that there has been more talk about Adam’s success or lack thereof than about Kris situation and his future hopes and dreams.  Unfortunately for Kris, he was doomed from the moment he won Idol, because he’s never gotten from under Adam’s shadow. 

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Btw….FYE has sold 2 million+ copies world wide and Trespassing is closing in on 1 million ww.”

    Would you please post a link to the source for these sales figures? Especially the source for the sales of Trespassing worldwide? Thanks! 

    ETA: Q3 wrote:
    “Fans have no idea how much revenue and profit an album project generated. We can look at partial sales but not much more. For example, how much licensing revenue did RCA receive from an album? Or how many units were sold in Russia? Or Ukraine? Or China? There is not even comprehensive retail sales reporting in Japan, Germany, France or Canada. Week one UK sales mean little since HMV was out of stock after the first day — as was most of the country.

    I have no idea what Trespassing’s international sales are but I am certain it is not as simple as totaling up week one sales reports and adding a bit. ”

    Oh, so the worldwide sales of Trespassing aren’t known or have been posted anywhere by an official source? Thanks.

  • Nadine_Bitch

    LOL I know right?

    But anyway, IF Adam will be drop, then I’d say he’ll move on. He’s talented enough to be pick by new label, or go broadway, or try his luck in movies, or even snag a gig or two in vegas, or be the Queen frontman for real. It’s not the end of the world for him if RCA drop him.

    But this is about Kris and I’m sorry that he was dropped by RCA. But he’ll continue to make music for sure and that’s what matters.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I agree, and although Kris’ message was very classy, I didn’t get a particularly optimistic vibe from it regarding the future.

  • Nadine_Bitch

    I don’t think Carrie is selling much more than Adam internationally. If you’ll take out US ranking on that list, she’s almost the same as Adam’s position in exception of Canada(47).

  • mjsbigblog

     Reminder:

    KEEP THIS THREAD ON TOPIC! Kris Allen and his split with RCA. 

  • elliegrll

    I thought 19 did a pretty good job of keeping Kris out there with various charity gigs, events and contests geared towards kids and music in the schools, and singing the NA at sporting events. They also used TVOL for a clear channel commercial and sent out remixes.

    As we saw with both Davids, charity events don’t show people who someone is as an artist. They are nice, but they don’t do a lot to break the alums away from just being American Idols.  They also may not serve the purpose of exposing the alums to their intended audience.  

    Most of these charity events were geared to the same crowd of older women and younger men, and probably just served the purpose of helping the AI brand, more than advancing anyone’s career.  

    I will admit that in all three cases that the guys were probably more open to these charity events than any other form of promotion, so they were booked for events, where they would be the most comfortable.

  • http://twitter.com/KariannHart Kariann Hart

    I feel bad for Kris and wish him the very best.  Getting out there is important.  If a charity event is televised, then people do see your work.  Appearing on a television show helps.  There are a few Idols that did some modeling.  Maybe DeAndre from this year? 

    I am just not sure what Kris can do.  Maybe Idol will have its summer series at Branson, MO.  He needs to keep busy until he gets another contract. 

  • elliegrll

    The problem is that the label needs money to push singles, and they need to be convinced that it is worth it.  The worst think to happen to Kris is that the sales for the album didn’t become stable once LLWD took off.  He didn’t need to sell a ton of albums, he could have sold the same amount, but he needed to be able to show that some of the people who liked LLWD were giving him or the album a chance.  Unfortunately, there were too many examples of this not happening, such as poor attendance at his concerts, and the poor sales of TYC.

    The label can’t support every single with the same amount of money, if they are not getting a return on their investment.

  • Kirsten

    Sad to hear the news.

    I love what I do and I will never stop.

    Glad to hear that.

  • judes

    “Personally, I think the era of major music labels is over and has been for a while. Yeah, most of the big names are still on major labels but all artists have long ago realized that they no longer need major label backing to have a steady career in music. With the internet, YouTube, Kickstarter and the ability to make high quality recordings on limited budgets, we’re seeing more and more artists doing things themselves. ”

    Remusl I could have written that word for word. That’s exactly what i think too. Large labels have shot themselves in the foot by being too greedy & things have changed so much that they are now playing catchup !!

    My husband is doing a sound engineering course & so even he can record for the band he has .For Kris -it would be a no brainer to record his own music.I much prefer the live sound of Kris with his own musicians than the album anyway. 

  • nncw

    What is happening to Kris makes me feel cynical about all these shows, and the music industry in general. The shows obviously have ratings as their prime interest, not developing a “star” which they keep harping on – the “X-Factor” the next “American Idol”. Media and communications are for me at an all time low, I don’t know how we can survive being bombarded with so much crap. I still love to read a good book, I listen to a public radio station that plays  eclectic music (Jian Gomeshi being one of several  intelligent hosts they have  on this channel). I thank God our generation had the Beatles. Mass media and the internet, are making people’s attention span short, going for the impulse response, the shocking response, and the immediate, short term – everyone jumping on and off  the bandwagon pretty quickly response. So perhaps Kris Allen doesn’t fit the bill. Perhaps when he won AI his “promoters” didn’t believe in him enough to put much effort in all his hard work in the music he created. I hope he continues to be able to make music – because I love his albums and can see that he is growing just fine in creating songs that I can relate to and enjoy.

  • elliegrll

    The lack of promotion and buzz wasn’t ever his fault

    Kris’ career is in his hands now, but I think that that has always been the case.  Back in June he told a fan that his calender was full for July.  Full for Kris translated to about 5 or 6 shows.  I don’t think that he was puffing up the numbers or trying to save face, I think that he saw that number, and felt that that was a full calendar of events.  

    I think that this is how Kris has always seen things.  I don’t think that he had a problem with the type of events that Lizzie booked for him, saw nothing wrong with tweeting about concerts for the first time on the day that they were to take place, or saw the difference in letting his band, and not himself, do twitter contests for tickets to the shows.  I don’t think he saw the slow rate that he was gaining twitter followers as an issue, or the sizes of the audiences that he was playing to.

    I think he totally believed it when he told a reporter that he thought that his contract was safe, and that he had a solid fanbase.

    The way that Kris sees himself, and his approach to his career has played a role in where he is now.

  • http://twitter.com/krisjonin Jonins

    I was sad to hear Kris and RCA split but not totally surprised. I was kinda expecting when this will happen since I haven’t heard any kind of promotion from RCA regarding Kris. Sad because I am kind of worried for him since I always feel that for a musician or singer needs to have the support of a major recording label.

    However, it seems that Kris has been sorting his career lately and made some tough decisions, like him changing management, now this. I think it is kind of orchestrated, if it is from Kris’s own actions, I don’t know. But all seems to be connected. Maybe Kris has a game plan that we don’t know about.

    I hope that plan includes announcing a new contract with a new label. ;-)

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    Jonins: However, it seems that Kris has been sorting his career lately and made some tough decisions, like him changing management, now this. I think it is kind of orchestrated, if it is from Kris’s own actions, I don’t know. But all seems to be connected. Maybe Kris has a game plan that we don’t know about.

    If KA saw the label’s decision coming, it’d be prudent of him to have made plans and started putting a new strategy in place. I think “orchestrated” is exactly the right term, and that KA put some “good news” (show dates, etc.) in place before announcing that he was no longer with RCA. That’s the right thing to do: have something positive and constructive out there for the fans and media who are exercised about his being dropped.

    elliegrll: I think he totally believed it when he told a reporter that he thought that his contract was safe, and that he had a solid fanbase.

    Eh, they all seem to say that sort of thing right up to the moment when they fix their big puppy-dog eyes on Shirley Halperin and mention that they’re no longer with the label. No way are they all incapable of doing math and picking up signals from their label contacts. I think that sort of statement is more about keeping fans calm — and possibly about keeping the lid on negotiations with the label, definitely about controlling what the key messages are in promo for the artist’s events — than about really believing that everything’s cool.

  • girlygirltoo

    He’s got a bunch of shows lined up for October and November. He even has one booked for next April. And he has tweeted that more will be announced soon. These are the dates that were in the email we got from Sony yesterday. There are a couple others that aren’t included here, such as the one in Connecticut in late April, him being confirmed (by Maureen VanZandt) at being one of the performers at the Little Kids Rock gala honoring Stevie VanZandt in NYC on 10/16, a show in Annapolis, MD in October and a gig in Nashville in November (the last one hasn’t been confirmed by anyone yet). So he will be keeping busy.

    9/23 Mill Creek, WA The Jet Bar and Grill (Colton Can Benefit; this is sold out, but will also be live streamed on StageIt)
    9/24 Seattle, WA CenturyLink Field (singing NA at Seahawks-Packers MNF game)
    9/29 Coral Gables, FL BankUnited Center (Miami Rocks Our Troops show)
    10/03 St. Louis, MO Off Broadway
    10/04 Evanston, IL S.P.A.C.E
    10/08 Stillwater, OK Gallagher – IBA Arena
    10/19 Houston, TX Tanger Outlets Westgate
    10/21 Dallas, TX House Of Blues
    10/22 Austin, TX One World Theatre
    10/27 New York, NY Joe’s Pub (2 shows)
    10/28 Washington, D.C. The Hamilton
    11/15 Marshall, MN SW Minnesota Univ
    11/16 Glendale, AZ Tanger Outlets Westgate

  • girlygirltoo

    For the most part, there wasn’t poor attendance at his concerts. We got very few box office numbers from his headlining shows, but the ones that were reported were, except with one exception, all 70% of capacity or higher, including a couple of sellouts. If you look at the Billboard box office reports for any week, 70% of capacity is actually pretty decent. Not great by any stretch of the imagination. But decent.

    Also, Sony made plenty of money off LLWD. They have only themselves to blame for not following up that by giving Kris a better 2nd single. They also picked the wrong song to be the first single off TYC. Granted, we can’t say for sure that the results would have been any better if they had gone with AWM instead of TT and BWY or MW instead of TVOL, but I would have liked to have seen those songs be given a chance.

  • elliegrll

    In Kris’ case I think he believed it.  Just like he believed that something was being accomplished by the interviews with the people who have internet shows, and the pre album promo that was geared mostly to the people who follow him on twitter.

  • mzhallcat

    Well, I’ve been a Kris fan since he got my attention on AI and his not being on a major label will not alter that fact. I will continue to appreciate, enjoy, and support his artistic talent. I will continue to admire him as a person who has strived to keep his priorities (faith, family, friends, charity) forefront in his life. He seems to know who he is as a person and what he needs to be happy, so if he says his path has never been clearer that is good enough for me. I’m looking forward to following him on his chosen path because I’m a Kris fan, not an rca fan.

  • siennalily

    Kris is a bust at self promotion but,to me, that’s part of who he is. I actually think that an artist just needs to concentrate on his music and not let his creativity be stifled by spending time marketing himself. If he’s talented enough and he makes good music the rest will take care of itself. He may not be a superstar but he will be respected as an artist and I honestly think that is more important to Kris anyway. Just let the people who are paid to promote you and manage you do their jobs and let the artist do his job which is create and perform.

  • elliegrll

    If he’s talented enough and he makes good music the rest will take care of itself.

     
    I think that this is Kris’ outlook on life and his career.  I’m not saying that it works or doesn’t.  It’s just the way that it is.

    he will be respected as an artist 

    I think that this is what he wants, but I don’t know if it’s what he has achieved.

  • siennalily

    “I think that this is what he wants, but I don’t know if it’s what he has achieved.”

    I think to a very few he has gained respect but I hope that there will be more in the future. It may never happen because the AI stigma is very difficult to shake and many will never give him a chance to prove himself but with a talent like his there’s always a chance. I think in his own way Kris is competitive but he’s also stubborn and he wants to make it on the merits of his music rather than other factors.

  • http://twitter.com/CanadianLady2 CanadianLady

    “If he’s talented enough and he makes good music the rest will take care of itself.”

    I wish that was the case, but I’m afraid it doesn’t necessarily work that way.

  • http://twitter.com/MissGolightly22 No Thanks

    I agree, Kris has never been terribly motivated to put himself out there and promote himself.  He was and always will be super low key.  And quite frankly, I don’t think he ever felt comfortable with it at all. Unfortunately that doesn’t produce great results sales wise.

    He’ll probably be able to eke out a nice solid living for the next few years but not much else.  And maybe that’s what he wants.  But I hope he didn’t think his low key efforts were all that he needed to do to keep his major label deal.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    . I actually think that an artist just needs to concentrate on his music and not let his creativity be stifled by spending time marketing himself. If he’s talented enough and he makes good music the rest will take care of itself.

    There are thousands of talented musicians who sell 1,500 copies of their indie albums and tour small bars. KA is very talented — and now has the added polish of his big-league experience — but talent alone is not so scarce that the general public makes a special effort to seek it out.

    That said, I also think KA’s preferred niche may be quite different from what RCA was going after, and the right marketing to get him there will look different, too.

  • elliegrll

    I think that Daughtry has gained respect in the industry, which is why he gets so many opportunities to write with and for other people.  I don’t think that the sit back and just let things happen approach leads to gaining people’s respect, or puts anyone in a position for that to happen.

    but he’s also stubborn and he wants to make it on the merits of his music rather than other factors

    People always say this, as if the only way for someone to promote themselves is to act OTT in public, or appear on red carpets. It would hold more weight with me, if Kris had done something to use LLWD to help him promote himself and his music. In interviews, Kris didn’t bring LLWD up without being provoked to do so by the interviewer, until the song had peaked. He had some interviews during that song’s rise, where he didn’t even mention the song.

  • standtotheright

    Most of these charity events were geared to the same crowd of older women and younger men, and probably just served the purpose of helping the AI brand, more than advancing anyone’s career. 

    This would only be true if all of these charity events never had any relationship to radio stations or local media, when, in fact, it is quite common for local radio stations to cosponsor charity events. One of the reasons that my local radio station is relatively friendly to some of these alumni is their willingness to participate in events that the station sponsored; it builds goodwill.

    Major charity events focus on causes that touch all ages and genders and usually get favorable coverage in local media, so they don’t just reach “the same crowd” as AI fans. If artists perform their original material at these events, which in many cases they do, I simply do not accept the argument that they do not show who they are as artists. The music IS who they are as artists.

    At any rate, I wish KA well in the future.

  • Incipit

    Eilonwy, on the subject of Kris and RCA, the opposing viewpoints between the artist and the label, and the effects on the music business of outmoded industry policies from both sides of the coin – – or even more macro – the dispute between Art and Commerce, I wonder if you have checked out Jared Leto’s documentary “The Artifact” – under the pseudonym Bartholomew Cubbins.

    If you do, I wish you will write about it – 

  • hoosiermama2

    Last night I was sad. But today, I’m hopeful. Kris has said he’s “quietly competitive” so he’s not going to just give up. His performance on the pier and the fact that he tried out for Rock of Ages shows me he is willing to try new things to put himself out there. It isn’t going to be easy, but he has a strong support system and the new management looks promising. I look forward to whatever he comes up with because, to paraphrase Kris, I love what he does and I will never stop being a fan!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    The problem was that it was 70% of venues that held 3 or 4 hundred people who paid $10 to $30 dollars for a ticket. That’s poor attendance for concerts when looking at an AI winner who has a Top 10 single on the radio. If it was 70% of 4,000 with tickets in the $50 dollar range, that would have shown more demand and future marketability options. 

    When a concert to debut music from a brand new album, in a venue that holds 250 for $10 a person, takes two weeks to sell out, the suits pay attention. There were signs like this that pointed to a problem going into era #2. I’m not sure if something could have been done about it then or if it was something that Kris and 19 should have been working on for the past three years.

    Like I stated before, RCA deserves a good portion of the blame for its failure to adapt to changes in the market and its timing issues with releases and promotion.

  • elliegrll

    The charity events that I’m thinking about were ones that would have been setup by management and not the label.  The issue isn’t that he did the events, it’s that there weren’t an equal number of events that served the purpose of putting him in front of the people who would be open to buying his music.  If the charity events are going to be presented as being about promotion, then that would only work if the people who are attending the events are in the demo that is trying to be reached, and if the artist is presented as that, an artist.  

    The issue just me that the way that I see Kris, and the audience that I think he would appeal to is not the way that he sees himself, or the audience that he wants to reach.

  • almondean88

    I want to express my whole hearted support and best wishes for Kris’s continued success in this new phase of his career.  I feel it is tragic that TYC is not being brought to the attention of more people. I’m completely on board with MW as a 2nd single.  It just feels like a hit. I hope there is a plan in place to make it happen since Kris spoke about it so recently on Yahoo.
    Of course I’d also love BWY, it seems to be doing great overseas.  Question: when Kris leaves RCA does that mean he owns his own music and can release what he wants whenever?

    I’m wildly in favor of his new management.  All these shows popping up should have been happening months ago to support the release of TYC.  I love Kris’s music, his covers, his shows; full bank, trio, or solo.  I’ve already got my ticket for his Stageit show and I can’t wait!

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    Eh, but KA and his management are also choosing from the events that are actually available to them. It’s not as simple as saying “we need to put Kris in front of 18- to 25-year-olds,” picking up the phone, and scheduling him for an event with that audience. As an Idol winner with one top-10 pop hit (and neither a teenager, a pop princess, nor an R&B/hip-hop type), he’s behind a LOT of people in the queue. 

    Part of my point with Colton Dixon was that he had a viable “my genre-specific credentials, let me show you them” strategy available to him. There are reasons for CCM to be hungry for a presentable young white male songwriter who gives ya the big soulful eyes while talking earnestly about Jesus. He had to be smart enough to exploit the opportunity effectively, but it existed before he did.

    That’s different from KA’s situation, where part of the deal is trying to establish why pop needs him when it’s busily sloughing off to HAC the artists who are vaguely like him, and there’s not really a shortage of earnest pop-rock males striving for the HAC slots.

  • GinaLeePatt

    He was really boring so no big surprise. He didn’t have what it takes to make it big. He had no personality and he was mediocre at best

  • elliegrll

    I know that it was never going to be easy, and I knew that the second album didn’t stand a chance, unless RCA believed in Kris enough to delay it, so that he would have the time to do what he failed to do when the first album was released.  There never should have been any doubt about the size of his base, or the fact that he wasn’t going to get radio stations to play his music.

    I think that’s where my problem has always come from, there just never seemed to be any recognition that Kris wasn’t reaching a larger audience, that his AI fanbase was going to and did erode, or, when LLWD took off, that this was the great chance to finally get people to notice Kris.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DJ7WHUJBDWDRRVA6FZZZ2OG4BY Sam

    Wow. From the talk of a new single to the news getting dropped two weeks later? How does that work, I wonder. I was so hoping the new single on the horizon meant that his new management and label were finally consolidating their efforts and actually trying to promote him. Why is that some people get everything and some people get nothing.

    The body count for 2012 so far: Cook, Pickler, Toscano and now Allen.

    I don’t think Pia Toscano counts. She never even got to release an album in the first place. Now, if Lauren Alaina and James Durbin survive their sophmore releases and if Haley Reinhart even gets one, that is the question. It’ll show if post-RCA Idols are any more lucky than RCA ones, and in James Durbin case if an “indie” label is in fact a better deal.

    One bright side of Kris getting dropped is that he’ll get to do whatever he wants musically. I really hope it’s more “him” than what he was forced to make for RCA.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    I knew that the second album didn’t stand a chance, unless RCA believed in Kris enough to delay it, so that he would have the time to do what he failed to do when the first album was released.

    Unless the plan was to send KA off on a Sparks-like quest through movies or TV, I’m not sure how delays would have helped. An artist who’s in only modest demand after having one hit two years ago isn’t going to be in higher demand when that one hit is now three years ago. Without a single, he can’t work radio, so a delay wouldn’t build contacts there.

    I do think RCA lost their minds when choosing a second single off KATA, but that mistake is clearly in the label’s lap. 

  • mickeybordentwo

    Kelly and Carrie succeeded in part because they were novelties. Kelly was the first American Idol, and the wild success of Season 2 probably helped her as well. Carrie was the 4th Idol winner, but she was the first country one. Both were given very strong material, which undoubtedly helped, but if Kelly had come along in Season 5 or Carrie after Kellie Pickler, who knows how they would have done.

    To me, the issue with the Idolettes (and presumably the performers launched by other TV shows) is they’re TV “stars” and that doesn’t necessarily translate into success in other formats.

    The parallel for me is the TV stars from the Elvis to Beatles era who had regular series roles, but attempted to become pop stars as well. I think the only one who really pulled it off was Ricky Nelson (and to a lesser extent Connie Stevens). But Edd “Kookie” Byrnes and Shelley Fabares were one hit wonders and quite a few more didn’t even have that one hit.

    So until a TV version of Sing Along With Mitch or the Lawrence Welk Show comes along, I think there are going to be a lot of Idolettes who can’t make the transition from singing once a week on TV to pop stardom.

  • lovetheusa1776

    Annapolis and D.C. – great – my territory – need that Annapolis date.

  • Pippygirl

     

    I think that this is what he wants, but I don’t know if it’s what he has achieved.

    Respect from who? TMZ, VFTW, Idol blog readers?
    We have no way of knowing how people in the music industry (which is who I believe Kris cares about) feel about Kris and his talent. His songs have been used in commercials, TV shows and radio promos, and other artist’s have chosen to record songs he has cowritten. Doesn’t that demonstrate respect?

  • elliegrll

    Doesn’t that demonstrate respect?

    Following some of his co-writers on twitter, I’ve noticed that they personally do a lot to promote their songs to other artists and labels.  I don’t think that the licensing of these songs happened by accident, or without these full time writers actively showcasing their work.  

  • elliegrll

    Things went wrong with the first album, but Kris wouldn’t be the first artist that that happened to.  Hot Chelle Rae was signed to Jive for their first album, and I think that it just sold a few thousand copies.  The failure of that album, and the band not making a dent in the public’s perception didn’t stop their single “Tonight Tonight” from becoming a hit.  

    Granted, album number two probably sold as well as TYC did, but the group is still using the success of TT to find an audience, and build a name for themselves.  It’s doable, because they have good managers, and the label believes in them.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “The problem was that it was 70% of venues that held 3 or 4 hundred
    people who paid $10 to $30 dollars for a ticket. That’s poor attendance
    for concerts when looking at an AI winner who has a Top 10 single on the
    radio. If it was 70% of 4,000 with tickets in the $50 dollar range,
    that would have shown more demand and future marketability options. ”

    Exactly. % attendance can be very misleading, and can appear to be more impressive than it really is (which depends on the capacity of the venue as you stated).

  • irockhard

    2013 will be another interesting year for sure.

  • elliegrll

    I don’t think the size of the venues were an issue, Kris was playing in some of the same places that Daughtry performed in when his first album was released.  The problem came from thinking that these 300-700 were going to stick around if there was no song on the radio, or Kris while Kris was out of the public eye.  Those fans were also mostly AI fans, so there was the problem in thinking that they would continue to support Kris, and there was a failure to build anything off of this.

    I never understood the call for headline tours, instead of calls for Kris to do things that would increase his exposure and reach more people.

  • Pippygirl

    I think you might be rewriting history just a bit. Kris did headline a lot of shows, but he also opened for Maroon 5, Barenaked Ladies, Keith Urban, Daughtry, and Lifehouse. Wasn’t that supposed to help him reach more people?

    As far as Kris’ co-writers actively promoting their music well, that ‘s because songwriting is their full time job. Is Kris supposed to do that as well as perform shows, write and record music, and promote himself to the public?

    Kris definitely could have done a better job promoting himself while LLWD was rising on the charts, but that’s where his management comes in. Someone should have taken him aside and told him if he didn’t talk about LLWD during interviews they were going to make him sorry, lol!

  • Ratna12

    RemusL, I agree with your post.
    Even I was hesitant at first when I heard TVOL as the single…even more confused why the label picked that song as the single after watching him at The Mint. Better With You literally stunned me, it was so great.

  • http://twitter.com/LexieONeill Lexie O’Neill

    I wish Kris the best and am sorry to hear this news.

    But as far as opening for those acts…what do they have in common?  I don’t understand what kind of fan/genre (other than general pop) that Kris is aiming for (and Keith Urban is country?)…just my lack of knowledge on this one…

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I guess that opening for a bigger act doesn’t always work to increase the popularity of the opening act. It seems to me that Kris was given many opportunities to reach people through these opening gigs. Plus, he worked hard and performed at a lot of radio shows and music festivals where he was exposed to large, diverse crowds. I’m not sure that there is much more that he could have done.

  • hoosiermama2

    Kris definitely could have done a better job promoting himself while
    LLWD was rising on the charts, but that’s where his management comes in.

    I will never understand why all parties involved thought it was a good idea for Kris to perform a cover charity single on Idol when LLWD was charting on 4 formats and approaching top 10 on pop and 1M sales! There was no promo for him at that time except the Ford commercials. That whole time period leading into the [bad] choice of 2nd single was so damaging and he never recovered from it.

    But it’s all water under the bridge now…

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    Wait … Kris never performed Live Like We’re Dying on Idol?

  • Kitwana

    Kris did some shirtless shots for his 2nd cd http://www.justjared.com/2012/04/25/kris-allen-shirtless-for-album-photo-shoot/ If he really wants to make an impression, he should really use his looks more. Whenever he appears shirtless, it seems to generate buzz. http://www.justjared.com/2010/04/18/kris-allen-shirtless/ I think he is the only WGWG winner who has ever allowed himself to be photographed shirtless. With the prevalence of sex in pop music today, I’m actually surprised that more male contestants have not gone shirtless to get some attention and sell some music. It worked for Stefano.

  • MV007

    Am I dissapointed?  Yes, I always wanted to hear more of Kris on the radio and for him to get get more recognition for the talent I believe he possess.  With that said, I can’t help but feel thankful for what we got.  All I have to do is think back to Season 8 and what my mindset was at the time.  I was just hoping and praying that we would get one more week of Kris so I could get one more song off of itunes.  And this was at like top12 or so when it was unclear where he stood.  And even later on, I always had the attitude of “just one more week”.  So here we are all these years later with two studio albums, countless covers and live performances and I’m just glad we got this much.  Considering my expectations during his Idol run and the initial fears that he might just fade away like so many other idols, I think he did a tremendous job and I look forward to following his journey post haveing a major label deal.

  • Pippygirl

    No he didn’t. He performed Let It Be for charity and The Truth on the finale of Season 9.

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    No he didn’t. He performed Let It Be for charity and The Truth on the finale of Season 9.

    Did not remember that. That’s bizarre … and stupid.

  • elliegrll

    I guess that opening for a bigger act doesn’t always work to increase the popularity of the opening act. It seems to me that Kris was given many opportunities to reach people through these opening gigs. Plus, he worked hard and performed at a lot of radio shows and music festivals where he was exposed to large, diverse crowds. I’m not sure that there is much more that he could have done.

    Opening for another act has to be accompanied by having songs on the radio, and appearing in other forms of mainstream media.  Most people are only going to see one concert, that’s not something that’s going to automatically translate to people buying the album.  I would think that the idea is to expose people to Kris via the concerts, then when they hear the song on the radio they make a connection.  It’s like determining how many times a song has to be played on the radio before people start to notice it.  That type of thing doesn’t happen with just one spin.

  • girlygirltoo

    Nope — he performed his charity single (Let It Be) right after he came back from Haiti, and then he performed The Truth on the S9 Idol finale. In retrospect, it might have been better if he had performed LLWD at the finale, even though it had started to slide down the chart by then.

  • elliegrll

    As far as Kris’ co-writers actively promoting their music well, that ‘s because songwriting is their full time job. Is Kris supposed to do that as well as perform shows, write and record music, and promote himself to the public?

    This is what people do.  I follow Bruno Mars on twitter.  I saw him tour around the world, and in between tours stops write and produce songs for other people, go into the studio and record, and promote his songs and theirs.  It’s what people do.  Daughtry did the same thing.  In between writing and promoting his own record, he was also writing songs for other people.

    But, that’s beside the point that I’m making.  You seemed to be saying that the licensing of Kris’ songs by others has to do with Kris, and what I’m saying is that even though he deserves the credit as one of the co-writers of these songs, and should be proud that people want to use them, it’s other people who have done the leg work to promote these songs to these artists and producers.  So, my question is that since he probably hasn’t been a part of that, is he really benefited a lot from establishing a name for himself as a writer.

  • elliegrll

    The MTV article brought up a great point that I was trying to make yesterday.  Given the genre of some of the winners, I think the best strategy for Kris would have been to try to establish himself with poppier songs like MW, CSA, WAOMF first, even if what he really wanted to do is make more soft rock leaning songs.  The poppier songs would have allowed him to stand out more.

  • girlygirltoo

    He seems to be well liked by the media, radio DJs, co-writers, producers, etc. Many of his co-writers and the people he has toured with have raved about how talented he is, and he has his fans among the radio people and media as well.  He has gotten several cuts on other artists’ albums. So I think he is at least on his way to being respected as an artist. Which could help in terms of extending his career, even if the commercial success isn’t all that.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    But didn’t Kris open a lot of shows while LLWD was popular and played a lot on the radio? That, combined with the exposure to thousands of potential fans should have had some positive impact no? I can understand how choosing “The Truth” may have slowed his momentum, but performing LLWD should have made that connection that you’re talking about, unless you are saying that an Idol needs multiple hits to expand beyond an Idol fanbase.

  • girlygirltoo

    Jordin’s last solo tour did worse than his. I remember seeing some box scores where she was playing before abt 200 people at venues with a capacity of 1000+. She supposedly had a fanbase and all these hit singles, yet she couldn’t draw anyone to many of her solo shows. So what’s the answer?

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Jordin is a puzzling case. She’s opened for huge acts (Jonas Brothers, Britney, Alysia Keyes), had big hits on the radio, is beautiful, young and sings really well, seems like a nice person and yet doesn’t seem to have broken through as a solo artist who can draw an audience on her own. I have no idea what’s the answer.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    Jordin ended up selling around 180K in the US with her second album and had a top 10 hit off of that album that era. She did have some international sales with that second album and with the single. 

    Jordin also has marketability potential. She has been on Broadway and in movies and commercials. Jordin also has had songs on movie soundtracks and her music in the future could be more directed towards the R&B markets.
    There is something to work with.

    As an artist, you might not be at the superstar level or even close, but you have to give a major record label some reason to keep you!

  • elliegrll

    But didn’t Kris open a lot of shows while LLWD was popular and played a lot on the radio?  

    Kris didn’t have a lot of major appearances while LLWD was at it’s peak.  Any headlining shows at that time would have been preaching to the choir, not exactly something that would expose him to new people.

    unless you are saying that an Idol needs multiple hits to expand beyond an Idol fanbase 

    Multiple hits, and multiple avenues of getting in front of new people.  I think that this is true for everyone.  Remember, Bruno Mars started off selling 50,000 copies of his album the first week, without having a hit song on the radio, Carly Rae Jepson looks like she will open with the same amount or maybe 10K fewer.  People need more than just one song in order to buy into an artist.  

    Maybe sometimes an artist can get away with just having one hit that will help them to attract attention, but I think that those types of artists usually have a huge presence in the mainstream, and show up everywhere.

  • http://www.facebook.com/masewallace Mase Wallace

     PREACH,taylor

  • http://www.facebook.com/masewallace Mase Wallace

     you go boy

  • elliegrll

    There are no easy answers. 

    Jordin, like most alums, didn’t know who she was trying to appeal to with her first album.  They didn’t know if she was making bubble gum pop or r&b, that hurt her when it came to building up a fanbase. 

    It’s not just the alums faults, but I think the main thing that any alum has to do is establish who they are from the start.  That’s not something that can wait until album #2.

    BTW, being liked for being a good and friendly person is not the same thing as been respected as an artist and a writer.

  • almondean88

    This thread is a very interesting read. A couple
    of thoughts; A tour, even to small venues helps support a cd/single release
    because it puts the artist in lots of different cities and gives them a chance
    to appear on small town TV or big city radio stations. That is if the
    management/label are putting together a real campaign for an artist. Between
    KATA & TYC I think Kris’s management was in greater disarray than just
    monitoring his career. There were ongoing fights among the principles of the
    companies and the people Kris was working with were leaving. Then there was the
    whole Jive/RCA switch. So during the time when Kris needed tons of support I
    expect lots of the suits were just trying to hang onto their own jobs.

    As far as TT as single 2 from KATA, don’t even
    get me started. It was wrong, wrong, wrong. As far as Kris showing initiative, when
    he got the ok to release single 3 from KATA he put together my favorite video
    in support of the single. It was way too long before he released TYC and he
    appeared much too infrequently. Perhaps he could have pushed harder to get out
    and perform, but it seems the label is in control as to when something is
    getting released.

    I wonder how long Kris has been working on this
    new phase of his career. Clearly his management change was decided well before
    the recent Yahoo appearances. As to leaving the label, I expect that was not a
    snap decision on their part. I expect it was also decided some time ago.
    Therefore I hold out hope for a single 2 from TYC. I just hope the new
    management can get some radio attention to support it.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “BTW, being liked for being a good and friendly person is not the same thing as been respected as an artist and a writer.”

    No, really? I thought that they were the same thing. lol

  • fuzzywuzzy

    ” Remember, Bruno Mars started off selling 50,000 copies of his album the first week, without having a hit song on the radio”

    This is incorrect. “Just the Way You Are” was released on July 20, 2010, and reached #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart dated October 2, 2010, selling 3,280,000 digital copies in the US alone by the end of 2010. The music video was released on September 8, 2010. So JTWYA was already a big hit when Doo-Wops & Hooligans, was released digitally on October 4, and physically on October 5, 2010 (selling 55,000 units its first week).

  • elliegrll

    That was a typo.  It should say with just one hit single on the radio.  My point was that his album sales were lower than people expected, but that’s because he was a new artist who just had one song.  As he released several more his sales stabilized, and the album has sold over 1.5 million copies in the US.  

    That was in reference to your statement about having more than one hit song.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “That was a typo.  It should say with just one hit single on the radio.”

    A “typo” is a misspelling or leaving out a word, not saying that “without having a hit song on the radio” should be “with just one hit single on the radio”, two phrases with entirely different meanings. It was an incorrect statement, not a “typo”. lol

    So, your theory is that the real problem was Kris did not have more than one hit single.

  • elliegrll

    I’ll get over the error.  I think that the rest of the paragraph, as well as the inclusion of Carly Rae Jepson clarified my meaning.  Most people are not going to attract new fans on the basis of one song.  With the cost of digital tracks, most people won’t even bother to check out an artists entire album until the artist releases at least one or two more songs that make an impact.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “I’ll get over the error.”

    You’re welcome! Nice that you appreciate being corrected. lol

    “With the cost of digital tracks, most people won’t even bother to check
    out an artists entire album until the artist releases at least one or
    two more songs that make an impact.”

    So in the end, you believe that it all boiled down to having more than one hit song on the radio and without that, there was little/nothing that Kris could do to prevent what has happened. 

  • Karen C

    Granted, album number two probably sold as well as TYC did, but the group is still using the success of TT to find an audience, and build a name for themselves. It’s doable, because they have good managers, and the label believes in them.

    Yes, it can be done, and I’ve seen other examples also. IMO, a big part of the problems the Idols are having is that the labels aren’t as commited to their long term success.

  • MissMyEm

    Nevermind. I misread your post. Sorry.

  • http://twitter.com/Lillyfield2 Cherry Lillyfield

    I’m a little surprised because I thought an RCA rep came out and said they stood behind him not too long ago.  I guess not- there is no truth anywhere.  Maybe he should think about Vegas or something and get a long act started while he still has the name factor.  There are worse ways of making a living.

  • Pippygirl

     I think expecting Kris, as a 22/23 year old with minimal experience in the music industry (playing in bars in Arkansas and self-producing an album), should know off of Idol how to market himself successfully is kind of silly.
    Having said that, when I think of how much growth Kris showed on Idol, and how much he has grown as an artist since winning, I’m feel fairly confident we haven’t heard the last from him. However as much as fans want to say this is for the best, I’m sure Kris is very disappointed in this turn of events. I know he will make the future fun for us, I just hope it is fun for him as well.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y2H6IQWNMTSNTCTWDP7TDFEKPY Linda

    lovetheusa1776, I just bought tickets for the Annapolis show last night. It’s October 29 at the Rams Head on West Street. I’m about two and a half hours away but that was still pretty near by for me.
     

  • Goodvibes27

    People coming off these shows need to realize that their time at the label is limited. The record execs will exploit their momentum coming off the show and dispose of them. Next-Next-Next. Carrie & Kelly are the EXCEPTIONS.  Not the rule. The best they can do is learn the recording business from the best while they are there. Diversification is crucial. Make contacts and friends in the industry while you’re still hot. It will cool. Sometimes I think it’s more interesting to see what happens AFTER the idol is dropped. That’s where the rubber meets the road. Kris is a talented guy but can he hustle? We shall see. I just got more interested in his career.

  • http://twitter.com/shoriagirl Shoriagirl

    Yep. Kris should have written songs, recorded them, picked singles, sent them to the radio, written press releases and sent them to the magazines/news outlets, booked the shows, rented the tour bus, driven it all over country, while printing posters and other promotional materials … did I miss anything?

    Promotion is not function of the artist. Bruno Mars doesn’t do his own promotion. Lady Gaga doesn’t do her own promotion. Kelly and Carrie don’t do their own promotion.  This is what label and management do.  Kris label and management were not doing their job because they had other agenda and not Kris interests in mind.  A lot of people here try to re-write history and pretend that Kris had the same level of promotion as other winners/contestants. He didn’t.  

    Not that any of this matters anyway. 

  • lovetheusa1776

    Thanks, Linda – that’s about 1/2 an hour away for me.  Will get a group here and, with luck, we’ll all be there cheering him on.

  • girlygirltoo

    Couple of more concert dates:

    10/26 in Fairfield, CT (Fairfield Theatre – One Stage)
    11/18 in Nashville, TN:  http://3rdandlindsley.com/nov.html

  • girlygirltoo

    180K is not good for a 2nd album, especially when her first one went platinum. And she hasn’t had a big hit song in 2-3 years. So I’m wondering if she will focus more on acting and try to build back some buzz that way?

  • girlygirltoo

    Considering that Call Me Maybe is everywhere and that her duet with Owl City is rapidly climbing the charts, and she has gotten a ton of promotion (not to mention that Justin Bieber has consistently championed her)I would think that opening week album sales of 40K would be  somewhat disappointing. But who knows what kind of sales her label was projecting.

  • girlygirltoo

    yes but my point was that his co-writers, the people he has toured with and several radio and media people think he is a very talented artist — not just a nice guy. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    It was good enough for RCA to keep her. Evidently, they were satisfied with her overall numbers and wanted to keep her on the label for some reason.
    It doesn’t matter if we think the numbers “are good enough”, all that matters is what the label thinks.

  • springboard2

    Most people are not going to attract new fans on the basis of one song.
     With the cost of digital tracks, most people won’t even bother to check
    out an artists entire album until the artist releases at least one or
    two more songs that make an impact.

    It is the case for newbies, but Kris was not one after Idol. Alums need to expnad thier fanbase beyond Idol, but set the foundations first  with the Idol audince, that is made of casual viewers. There is nothing wrong with this audience, and there is no reason to discard it as worthless.
    It is also not the wrong demographics for Kris. Kris’ style is tame and safe, not hard rock, or alternative, or sexy pop, and perfectly appropriate for the show audience, probably more than for Top 40 or even HAC in his current state.

  • girlygirltoo

    But there’s no sign of her getting a 3rd album. She put out what was supposed to be the lead single, but it did poorly, and since then there has been pretty much no news about when the album would be out. I’m not even sure she has been working on it — all I ever hear about her is the acting stuff she’s pursuing. 

  • girlygirltoo

     I’m not sure what you mean by appropriate for the show audience — his music fits right in with Gavin DeGraw, Jason Mraz, Graffiti6, Matchbox20, Ed Sheeran, Colbie Caillat, Sara Bareilles, Andy Grammar, Matt Nathanson or any number of other artists who are currently on the CHR, HAC or Triple A charts. It isn’t AC radio pablum.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    There’s also no sign of Jordin getting dropped. They tried a single and it didn’t catch on, but they obviously want to keep her on the label. Otherwise, she would have ended up on the sofa talking to Shirley Halperin a couple of years ago.

    I’m sure Jordin will eventually come back to making an album, but at this time she seems to be keeping busy with Broadway, movies, commercials and songs for movie soundtracks. RCA must appreciate that she is a multi-talented young woman with many options available to her.

  • elliegrll

    It is the case for newbies, but Kris was not one after Idol. Alums need to expnad thier fanbase beyond Idol, but set the foundations first  with the Idol audince, that is made of casual viewers. There is nothing wrong with this audience, and there is no reason to discard it as worthless. 

    There are two things wrong with this statement that have been proven time and time again.  The labels and 19 have never tried to discard the AI fans, the first albums of pretty much everybody have been produced with the express intention of appealing to this very diverse group of people.  The diversity of this group is the reason why the songs on the debut albums are such a mishmash of different styles.  

    What we’ve seen is that doing things this way makes it harder for the alums to build an identity, or build a fanbase outside of the idol bubble.  And it is important that the alums build a fanbase outside of the bubble, as the 50%-95%
     drops for every sophomore album, except for Breakaway, have shown us, the idol fans are just like everybody else, they aren’t going to stick with an alum if they don’t like the music.

    Which highlights the last point, Kris and everybody else are newbies.  Their initial popularity is based on them being television personalities, and not artists.  They have to build up a name for themselves as artists, and that’s not going to happen if they are trying to please everyone, instead of playing towards their strengths.  If they don’t do establish their musical identity with the first album, the chances of them doing it with the second a zero.

  • elliegrll

    Jordin has been in the studio, but I think that it’s also clear that she’s trying to increase the public’s awareness of who she is through her acting.  Like Kris, sales of her last album and single make it clear that she can’t count on a new album doing well based on her name and reputation alone, she has to build up some buzz for her name that will help her get airplay, and hopefully result in people checking her music out.

    pippygirl said: I think expecting Kris, as a 22/23 year old with minimal experience in the music industry (playing in bars in Arkansas and self-producing an album), should know off of Idol how to market himself successfully is kind of silly.

    I didn’t expect him to be a marketing genius, but I did expect him to do some simple things that could have played a role in him holding on to fans, making new ones, or making connections in the industry. Just one little example, if you have been off the scene for almost a year, and then out of the blue an important dj tweets that they’ve hear a snippet of a new single, and that it is good, the proper response is “thank you”, and not getting defensive, because the dj described it as being the next single.

  • springboard2

     

    There are two things wrong with this statement that have been proven
    time and time again.  The labels and 19 have never tried to discard the
    AI fans, the first albums of pretty much everybody have been produced
    with the express intention of appealing to this very diverse group of
    people.  The diversity of this group is the reason why the songs on the
    debut albums are such a mishmash of different styles.  

    What we’ve seen is that doing things this way makes it harder for the
    alums to build an identity, or build a fanbase outside of the idol
    bubble.  And it is important that the alums build a fanbase outside of
    the bubble, as the 50%-95% drops for every sophomore album, except
    for Breakaway, have shown us, the idol fans are just like everybody
    else, they aren’t going to stick with an alum if they don’t like the
    music.

    Which highlights the last point, Kris and everybody else are newbies.
     Their initial popularity is based on them being television
    personalities, and not artists.  They have to build up a name for
    themselves as artists, and that’s not going to happen if they are trying
    to please everyone, instead of playing towards their strengths.  If
    they don’t do establish their musical identity with the first album, the
    chances of them doing it with the second a zero.

    .

    I am sorry, but the only thing that has been proven is that their album didn’t sell, the reasons why are just theories, speculation and personal opinion.

    Neither Kris’ or DC’s first albums for example were a mishmash of styles, and in addition they were described as excellent by fans.
    Kris’ style in particular has always been in line with his Idol style, whether it is the first or second album, which is current(ish) sounding pop-rock.
    The problem is whether he has a personal sound at all, and whether either of his albums is showing enough character to appeal to a new audience.
     

  • almondean88

    The timing of all this is quite interesting.  First the Yahoo shows were prerecorded but there were no leaks about Kris announcing his change of management.  Clearly Kris’s people were ready with a press release and whole roster of venues where they planned to book Kris.  Now in week three we get the “leaked” news about the split from RCA. However Kris was clearly ready with his statement to his fans.  It seems to me that while Kris was in discussion with his new management they must have known that the label would not support a second single.  They put together dynamic way to release all this information which features Kris performing instead of some dry written pr text.  Now the big news is all out.  Kris has stated positively there will be another “upbeat” single, but they are still working on the timing.  Does that mean signing up with another label?  I can’t wait for part 4 although I fear it will just be more funny fan twitter questions.

  • springboard2

    I’m not sure what you mean by appropriate for the show audience — his
    music fits right in with Gavin DeGraw, Jason Mraz, Graffiti6,
    Matchbox20, Ed Sheeran, Colbie Caillat, Sara Bareilles, Andy Grammar,
    Matt Nathanson or any number of other artists who are currently on the
    CHR, HAC or Triple A charts. It isn’t AC radio pablum.

    Kris’  music  lack the personality or quirkiness to fit in this list.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I’m sure that Kris has known for quite a while that he was going to be parting ways with RCA.

  • Incipit

    Ah, OK, springboard2. You meant In Your Opinion. That’s Cool.

    I thought “Monster” and “Lock That Door and Keep That Devil Out” were kinda sorta quirky…but what do I know? Maybe we define the word differently. I find him very ‘listenable’ – but I don’t follow Kris, or any of the artists in that list…all too ‘soft’ for my tastes. I didn’t even know they had some ‘quirkiness’ in common. *Shrug*

  • Pippygirl

    An email from Kris’ street team references RCA “easing the transition” as in continuing to update his website and putting his cover of Faith on their homepage. Hopefully there is a plan but at least it does appear that the split from RCA was more than amicable. (Unless they have done those things for other artists-I don’t know)

  • girlygirltoo

    well, that’s your opinion. I personally think Kris’ music is much more interesting and has more personality than what DeGraw or Caillat or Mraz has put out recently — they tend to put me to sleep. But everyone’s taste is different. 

  • DCAIfanHelsinki

    It’s still just about the same as David Cook’s sophomore CD sales.

    David’s (Cook) albums are also sold in several countries, Finland included. However, Sony Music Finland did absolutely NOTHING to (= literally nothing!) promote him here. Even though his first post-Idol album was in the Finnish TOP 40 for three months (Incipit: I checked and it was three months, not four as I remembered – I mentioned this a while ago) peaking at no. 15, Light On did very well also commercially and it was the third most played single of the whole year at Finnish commercial radios playlists (I have that in black and white from a newspaper).  Sony Music Finland’s homepage did tell about the album (with an error in its text, claiming David was “the previous” AI winner – which at the time was of course Lee DeWyze). I tried to correct that but nothing happened. There were no ads about TLM anywhere. 

  • escape

    Kris is also in a genre that is already so overly statured, and to be honest, there is nothing about him or his music that makes him especially different or unique. He is a pleasant enough guy.  And he comes across as someone who always wants to be the nice guy. He’s always been very hard to read. At least when Kelli Pickler got dropped, she spoke her mind about what happened with her label. And she didn’t hold back.

  • standtotheright

    Please explain to me what is particularly personable or quirky about Colbie Caillat or anything Jason Mraz has done since his first single.

    I don’t stan Allen by any stretch and have yet to even purchase TYC, but he’s not operating on some kind of radio-readiness deficit relative to most of these acts (Matt Nathanson, in particular, is far more interesting at his live shows than he ever is recorded).

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    Since Remedy was Mraz’s first single, I would say Geek in the Pink and I’m Yours were pretty awesome songs.

    ETA: I’m Yours was different and quirky. That’s what helped it sell over six million downloads in the US alone. It holds the record for the most weeks spent on the BB100 chart, as it stayed there for 76 weeks. It was way more than a “pleasant song”, to the radio listeners on Pop and HAC.

  • standtotheright

    I always forget about GITP because it didn’t get much airplay and when I heard it I found it forced, but okay, that’s definitely quirky.

    I’m Yours is pleasant, but quirky? Not so much. Certainly wouldn’t describe Lucky that way. Now IWGU has a very quirky lyric video, but the song itself is again, pleasant, but not quirky.

    ETA: Plenty of massively popular songs have no particular structural ingenuity. Mraz himself called it a “happy little hippy ditty” that he didn’t expect to be so popular. I mostly think what happened is that it was released in 2008, when a song about “opening ones eyes” and seeing that someone out there still cares would resonate in a world that, by all appearances, was permanently going to shit. No shade on Mraz for having that moment; it happens.

  • siennalily

    I think that Kris’s hands were somewhat tied with his last album. Most of it wasn’t terribly lyrically inventive or risky. I remember hearing Kris say in an interview that he wrote Loves Me Not with an angry edge but it was suggested that he tone it down to a point that it became a somewhat bubbly song about unrequited love. Personally, I’d have loved to hear the angry version. Also, he wrote Love Too Much for his first album but it never saw the light of day. I think the label wanted his music to be poppy and uncomplicated. I’ll be interested to see if his post label music has more of an edge to it. I’m hoping for a less mainstream sound from him in the future.

  • Axxxel

    Yeah, agree for Adam… if he wasn’t popular outside the US, he would already been cut off much much earlier.

  • Axxxel

    pop sells, (false) hope sells, anger sells.. for the latter, ask Linkin Park… Then again, it would have been fun to see/hear an angry Kris…

  • elliegrll

    they were described as excellent by fans. 

    And these are facts not opinions? LOL.  All fans say an album is excellent when it is first released, and then when the album doesn’t sell, the fans find fault with it.  Don’t believe me?  Look at the comments section of a review that EW gave David Cook’s album after it was released, where fans are upset with the negative things that were said about the album, and then go to Cook’s website and see where fans had the same problem with the album.  With Cook, fans have said that RCA and 19 made him release an album that appeals to Hot AC fans, when that is not his style.  With Kris, people have a problem with the production on some of the songs, and don’t feel a lot of the song’s represent Kris.

    And what’s not factual about the 50-95% erosion in sales that all of the alums except one have seen?

  • girlygirltoo

    It’s also the last single he has put out that could be called quirky and that was 4 years ago. His current single, while pleasant and well written, is very generic. Yet it has done pretty well on the HAC and Triple A charts and is even getting  CHR play (why, I don’t know because there is nothing poppy about it)

  • elliegrll

    The idea that Kris’ problems stem from him not having a unique sound is interesting considering that he’s only had one song that’s been given a chance on radio.  I also doubt that RCA would have picked up his contract from Jive, if they didn’t feel that he was marketable.  I think that the perceptions about Kris’ personality, lack of buzz surrounding him, and the knowledge that there wouldn’t be any demand for his music has played a bigger role in him not getting airplay and his poor sales than the actually songs that he’s produced.

    That doesn’t mean that his music couldn’t stand to be edgier or have more depth.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    And what’s not factual about the 50-95% erosion in sales that all of the alums except one have seen?

    Indeed. Here’s the graph, covering every Idol alum who’d released at least two albums at the time of my last update. I haven’t updated since Cook’s sophomore album, but neither Allen’s nor Lambert’s would change the conclusion as it relates to second albums.

     I think that the perceptions about Kris’ personality, lack of buzz surrounding him, and the knowledge that there wouldn’t be any demand for his music has played a bigger role in him not getting airplay and his poor sales than the actually songs that he’s produced.

    Honestly, I’d put the onus squarely on “perceived lack of demand among radio listeners,” as other Idols with much more buzz have similar problems with radio play and sales. 

    PDs have had time to learn that Idols’ fanbases are both fickle and not in their actual listener pool. One single, maybe two, during the debut year seem(s) to get a chance because the Idol is “news”… and from there on out, while conventional artists’ singles simply have to be pretty good, Idols’ singles have to be downright undeniable in order to get any love. And “undeniable” is a standard most artists can’t reliably meet.

  • nekola

    Interesting discussion still going on here.

    I don’t stan Allen by any stretch and have yet to even purchase TYC, but he’s not operating on some kind of radio-readiness deficit relative to most of these acts (Matt Nathanson, in particular, is far more interesting at his live shows than he ever is recorded).

    Well, I do stan Kris but I get what you are saying. Kris is an excellent live performer and I’ve always thought that the majority of his recorded songs significantly pales in comparison. I think what Kris has recorded songs do fit in on what’s being played today — particularly TYC which is very Pop friendly. Although, I also agree with Escape that the Pop Kris is targeting is saturated.

    I remember hearing Kris say in an interview that he wrote Loves Me Not with an angry edge but it was suggested that he tone it down to a point that it became a somewhat bubbly song about unrequited love. Personally, I’d have loved to hear the angry version. Also, he wrote Love Too Much for his first album but it never saw the light of day. 

    I’ll be interested to see if his post label music has more of an edge to it. I’m hoping for a less mainstream sound from him in the future.

    Don’t even get me started about Love Too Much. I’m still SMH that it didn’t make KATA or TYC for that matter. I do think that Kris will now have the freedom to go with his instincts on writing and production of his music now that he is no longer tied to the label. I also have the feeling that the music will now have more bite than what we’ve heard so far.

    He is a pleasant enough guy.  And he comes across as someone who always wants to be the nice guy. He’s always been very hard to read.

    Hmm. I think that Kris comes across as genuine and sincere in everything that he does — performing, writing, charity, etc. However, what I think that he can improve upon is being more candid in interviews. Sometimes, I swear I can almost see the wheels turning as he parses his words. It’s always a fine line to walk for someone that is in the public eye; especially now with social media as every word out of his mouth can be dissected and exaggerated. I’m not saying that he has to be blunt just for the sake of it, but offering more of an in-depth opinion will help get his name out there to the average person, and consequently will help spread his music.

  • jan

    PDs have had time to learn that Idols’ fanbases are both fickle and not
    in their actual listener pool. One single, maybe two, during the debut
    year seem(s) to get a chance because the Idol is “news”… and from
    there on out, while conventional artists’ singles simply have to be
    pretty good, Idols’ singles have to be downright undeniable in order to
    get any love. And “undeniable” isa standard most artists can’t reliably meet.

    This! Unfortunately times have changed for all Idol contestants (except Kelly & Carrie).

    I also think it doesn’t help that many uber Idol fans publicly complain to stations on twitter and comments sections about the music the stations do play – showing that they are Idol fans – but not music fans – or at least not fans of the music the station plays.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PVEFG2TOUIXSROKUSO2O2DOWWE Taylor

    That’s because he waited four years between releasing albums.

    Like many artists, Mraz explored a different side to his music on this last album. Not every song or every era is going to sound exactly the same. The last single is a departure from his quirky side, but it continues to stay in the high twenties on iTunes above other more pop sounding songs. I Won’t Give Up is the perfect definition of a grower. It was released to radio on January 3rd. It’s one of those songs that takes a few listens to catch on, but it’s also one that you don’t get tired of hearing on the radio.

    There aren’t many downtempo songs that can make it into the Top 20, so there is something about this song that listeners respond to.Sometimes Mraz does quirky and sometimes he does reflective, but it’s clear that radio listeners respond to his music and his voice on the radio.

  • elliegrll

    However, what I think that he can improve upon is being more candid in interviews. Sometimes, I swear I can almost see the wheels turning as he parses his words. It’s always a fine line to walk for someone that is in the public eye; especially now with social media as every word out of his mouth can be dissected and exaggerated. I’m not saying that he has to be blunt just for the sake of it, but offering more of an in-depth opinion will help get his name out there to the average person, and consequently will help spread his music.

    He could be more relaxed.  I think that a lot of the things that happened to him after he left the show made him close off a little bit, or a lot.  When I think about this subject it reminds me of Kris saying that he wishes that people would know how important music is to him, and my reply to that is that he has to be the one to tell them.  With the exception of the people who have covered AI, he hasn’t had a lot of interviews where he has been open or elaborated on his passions and his life.  It’s like he’s afraid of offending someone, or saying something that could be used against him.

    Z100 has a video of Kris hearing LLWD for the first time on the radio.  He looked so proud, but it was also like he was analyzing the song.  If he could voice that type of emotion and passion during his interviews, he would catch the attention of a lot of people.

  • Pippygirl

    So let me see if I have this straight. Kris needs to write edgy, better produced, quirky songs with lyrical depth that appeal to pop radio. He must promote himself as a singer, songwriter. He should make sure he is not too nice a guy in interviews and be open and passionate about his music.

    Sounds exhausting. Also impossible.

  • overthetop1

    I liked his first album more than his current. And the title to the single–Vision of Love–was just terrible. Better With You is a much better song.

    I really, really like Kris.

  • girlygirltoo

    Lol, does any artist (commercially successful or not) manage to do all of these things? I can’t think of too many, if any, current artists who would meet all of those criteria :)

  • Pippygirl

    Well apparently Kris is held to a higher standard. :)

  • elliegrll

    I don’t agree with all of these things that he’s supposed to be, especially the part about being too nice, but is it really too much to expect an artist to be at least half of these things?  I doubt that you’d find too many successful artists who are not assertive when it comes to their career.  Writers who don’t promote their own music.  Writers and artists who don’t network.  Writers and artists who keep up with what is current.  Writers who get noticed, who can write songs that people can relate to, and that are radio friendly.  And artists who can promote themselves and their music.

  • Pippygirl

    My point is that everyone seems to have their own ideas of what Kris needs to do to be successful, and many of them seem to be contradictory.
    Personally I am not sure what kind of artist Kris wants to be (since he hasn’t bothered to call and tell me lol!) and what level of success he is aiming for.
    Now that he is on his own, with new management I think that question may be answered. 
    I think he is a multi-talented artist with diverse musical interests, so many options are open to him. He says his path has never been clearer to him, so that is a good sign in my opinion.