Idol Sales News – Week Ending 12/07/08

Please note that the above numbers are the Top 50 song from the download charts plus a few extra songs that have made à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“interestingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  gains in the top 200. Later today, Ken Barnes at Idol Chatter (USA Today) will come out with the full list of Idols in the top 200. We get data as it dribbles out.

Here is some of the airplay chart (this is a differential from last week so the numbers in brackets are gains or losses in millions of audience impressions since last week). Before recurrents are removed:

No. 99 – David Cook (-0.5 million) lw 102

Mariah Carey has the Top Christmas song at 29 followed by Nat King Cole at 32 (both these songs would be recurrent)

There are a few Brit fans here, so I thought I would post her numbers since it has been a pretty good week for her. Looks like she is back on the right track:

Album:
1 SPEARS*BRITNEY CIRCUS 505,073 999 496 505,694

Downloads:
– 1 SPEARS*BRITNEY CIRCUS 211831 999 0 211831
9 11 SPEARS*BRITNEY WOMANIZER 76723 -23 99525 1333146
– 29 SPEARS*BRITNEY SHATTERED GLASS 32291 999 0 32291
– 39 SPEARS*BRITNEY IF U SEEK AMY 25870 999 0 25870
– 83 SPEARS*BRITNEY KILL THE LIGHTS 15482 999 0 15482
– 97 SPEARS*BRITNEY OUT FROM UNDER 13127 999 0 13127
– 116 SPEARS*BRITNEY UNUSUAL YOU 10486 999 0 10486
– 127 SPEARS*BRITNEY LACE & LEATHER 9910 999 0 9910
– 167 SPEARS*BRITNEY MY ONLY WISH (THIS YEAR) 8085 46 5533 113273
– 189 SPEARS*BRITNEY PIECE OF ME 7512 16 6452 1336559
– 193 SPEARS*BRITNEY RADAR 7153 541 1116 212625

OMG! Cookie! Congrats! 20,000 till GOLD, baby!

Another steady week for CRUSH! I hope it keeps chugging right along into serious multi platinum territory…. Consistency is the ticket –> KOKO David :clap_tb:

I saw Britany on the xfactor and I cannot understand why people are buying her music. She mimed her way through the whole performance which was ghastly and was so disinterested in everything.

Well done Cookie. Only 20,000 to gold in 3 weeks. Also this week will be even better as DCTR is now 18 on digital downloads and in the top 10 in most retail stores. Mediabase is also fabulous for LO which is now 26 (jumped 4 places) on Top 40 and 11 on HAC despite the Christmas additions.

Not to nit-pick, spanishfan (though you know others will if I don’t), but this is DCTR’s third chart-week, so he’ll be Golden in 4. But that still leaves 10 shopping days until Christmas, and then another week of post-holiday discount and gift-card shoppers. So yeah, in this economic/industry climate? Cook is looking amazingly solid heading into the new year (when sales across the board will plummet for a good bit).

Also, it’s so gratifying to see him hanging with the big-boys, in the top 10 for three weeks running. Awesome.

Goooo, Cookie!! :thumbup_tb:

congrats DC!!!
a Golden Birthday around the corner!!!

Great numbers for Cook! He outsold the high end of the HDD prediction from last friday (I’m not sure, but I think this might be the first time he came out above their prediction in these 3 weeks).
Only 22K more for Gold, Whoot!

I’m not sure if he can keep up and stay in the Top 10 for another week, but even if not, 3 weeks in the Top 10 is wonderful.

Top 10 for 3 weeks. Boat anchors ftw! Let’s see if he can stay anchored another week.

On the Mediabase thread, we were discussing what the “prize” for winning Idol is and an interesting tidbit from X-Factor showed up (this is the show that Simon Cowell produces as a replacement for the original show “Pop Idol” which spawned “American Idol”). The winner of X-Factor signs a contract with Sony (and there are the usual 3 months right of first refusal for Cowel for all the other contestants – sounds familiar):

X Factor exclusive: Secrets of the winner’s ‘Â £1million contract’
The winner of X Factor does not receive an upfront  £1million record deal, the Mirror reveals today.

The only chance of hitting the  £1million mark is several years down the line à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ after at least four albums.

So, if the Idol contract is anything like the X-Factor contract, the winner just gets a contract and it appears to be subject to recoupment.

I thought the following bit was interesting:

The contract has hundreds of clauses, one of which states it to be enforceable anywhere à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“in the world and solar systemà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

A music industry source said: à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The contract makes clear no one can speak badly of X Factor supremo Simon. It is hilarious. He must be ultra-paranoid.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

No wonder all the contestants say such nice things about him. LOL. Now we’ll never know if they truly like him.

These are fantastic numbers for DC. Honestly spectacular.

LadyM, as always, love the nuanced observations.

LOL Gingerly. Yeah, I’d say that LO is quelling a lot of the naysayers. Slow and steady does win the race. And I’m very fond of sailing, so I lurve anchors.

Thanks Kirsten for her numbers. Good for her, I’ve only heard Womanizer, not my cuppa, but it’s nice to see her back. I’ll take Brit over Miley any day. Brit doesn’t make me flinch or cringe; it’s all so relative.

He should get a boost from being on all of these ‘end of year’ things that will remind the casual viewer of Idol that DCTR is out.

DCTR is doing really well. :happy_tb:

David Cook, you rock!

Boat anchors ftw!

Yeah, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d say that LO is quelling a lot of the naysayers.

Not me.

I’ve just acquiesced to the plea not to beat a dead horse. I still maintain that “Light On” is underperforming and that another single would have done better with less promotional costs. Based strictly on David Cook’s own sales history, I think his singles should sell more than this song has. I think that the album is selling in spite of this single. I will give RCA/19Alphabet credit for pulling out all the stops to try to make the song a hit, but fundamentally, I don’t think they should have had to try that hard for a David Cook song. This song has been featured on SNL, the AMAs, high profile commercials, VH#1, ads (directed at Joe Public and Radio Programmers), every talk show known to mankind and radio and it still bumbles along. I could grant it some leeway when it hadn’t had much exposure, but now the public has had more than sufficient chance to hear this thing, I have to conclude that they don’t want to buy it.

I will admit that some others will look at the same data and conclude that this is a hit song that is pushing sales, so I must simply disagree with them. This is not a bash on Cook. He is an amazing artist who can move units. Just not units of “Light On”. I blame the song and not him. No artist can be infallible and some songs are not meant to be singles, so I’m not trying to bash Cook at all. I think the label made a mistake and I still maintain they should have pulled the plug on this single way back in early November before the promo tour (now, of course, they have to sit tight until the New Year).

But, his albums sales are great despite that clunker and that is where I shall focus. I will try to avoid “beating this dead horse”, but as part of that pact, please don’t take my silence on the matter as “bitter admission that I was wrong”. I’m really just trying to be polite.

I saw Britany on the xfactor and I cannot understand why people are buying her music. She mimed her way through the whole performance which was ghastly and was so disinterested in everything

She has been doing that since her second album, her fans know that and don’t mind it.

I guess I should clarify. I’m not saying LO is now a comet or is a breakout success story. I’m very happy with LO. I think it will be like Magic Rainbow to some extent.

Kirsten, I do hear/see where you are going with your reasonings about LO versus another single. I don’t necessarily agree with some of the reasonings, or maybe I just read the story differently from you. But I am not going to belabor the point or other side, as we’ve done that in the past several weeks. We have hundreds of comments from proponents of each argument or side. Besides, I think PETA’s going to come and save that horse soon. It’s fun to play Monday morning arm chair quarterback – I do it all the time. I honestly value open discussion. I hope you don’t think it was a dig on you, because the boat anchor term has been bandied about by others, and is by no means a back handed smack down. I am glad that we can all share our opinions.

Having said that, I think that there is some vindication for us LO and Magic Rainbow lovers. A lot of peeps didn’t like either. Magic Rainbow grew on me, not normally my cuppa, but LO got me from first listen.

ETA: spelling

speaking of the 1 million contract, i was watching some Kelly Clarkson concert videos on youtube, her and Reba were introing “Do He Love You” and Kelly said “I never got a million dollars or car, they lie”.

starts at 0:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65nOAudVpUE

Kirsten, boat anchor has become a nickame for LO in Cookland. Yes it started with you, but don’t take it personally. It’s kind of an affectionate term now. Its like a catch-all referring to all the angst that came from within and without his fanbase over the song. No worries.

I didn’t know Kirsten was the one who came up with Boat Anchor! LOL, I’ve seen that name on DCO and it took me a few moments to realize what that was all about. Funny!
Between the Boat Anchor and the Magic Rainbow, what will we call the next single? Oh, the possibilities are endless!

I think that LO has had some additional pieces of promo (SNL, the AI ad, AMA preshow, some other random football stuff), but otherwise, seems to have had the same basic promo as other AI winners, so let’s not go too overboard in claiming that it was on “every talk show known to mankind and radio.” LO was performed on the Tonight Show but no other late night shows, GMA but no other morning show, Ellen and Regis & Kelly but no other syndicated talk shows. Sounds pretty standard. I also still say that we have no idea how many people heard LO and decided to check out (and ultimately buy) the record, instead of the single. And I still think that LO will ultimately end up gold, which would be good (though not great) sales, plus it is likely to be #25 on Top 40 this week and may hit top ten on HAC this week.

Anyway, ladymadonna has elegantly summed up my thoughts on DC’s record sales to date, which look very promising for gold next week, with reason to hope for good sales after next week during the pre- and immediately post-Xmas.

On the X Factor advance: Thanks for finding that and posting it. Whether that is something extra depends on whether the label ponies that up or the show. If it’s the show, then the top act gets a benefit because, instead of starting at zero, they have an extra amount of money to start paying costs from. (So, the act could spend up to that much producing and promoting the album before having to start digging into the profits from sales.) If it’s the label, then that sounds pretty standard for a new artist, right? I’d always understood that the show ponied up some money, but this still doesn’t say one way or the other.

Boat anchors ftw!

Me likey the boat anchor!

The horse is resurrected. He just called me and said he can’t take another posthumous flogging. :wink1_tb:

I’d moan and lament more over Light On if the album wasn’t doing as well as it is (3-weeks-since-the-release-date laboriously considered), but as a hardcore David Cook fan, I am extremely happy with his performance. It gives me a pre-Christmas-warm-and-fuzzy-feeling.

That being said, I’m anxiously excited to see what the next single will be, post-holiday.

Gold is a nice, shiny color.

Kirsten, boat anchor has become a nickame for LO in Cookland.

Yes it has, and I have to say, not all of the references to the term out there in Cookland are all that nice. Yes, peeps, once in awhile I leave my domain here at the big blog to go lurking around the net. .

So I would ask you all to leave the snark aimed at your fellow posters at those other places. When you’re here, please follow my guidelines, and remain respectful.

I’ll also quote from my guidelines, that if it’s upsetting to you to read negative opinions or commentary about your favorite, it might be best if you don’t read here at all.

Mmm, nice numbers for Crush and very good for Cook. I agree that LO (I think I’ll skip the cutesy nickname and just use initials) is not doing particularly much as a single. It’s sales still are quite men The two weeks before Xmas are when the real Idol monsters show up and I think if LO was a real hit it would help there. By monsters, I mean Daughtry/Carrie sales when they sold equal to or more in those weeks than they did their opening week. However, if Cook can stay at these levels, he’ll be in very good shape for the big January slide.

Yeah, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d say that LO is quelling a lot of the naysayers.

Not me.

Heh not me either but I’m avoiding the dead horse thing too. Everyone has their own definition of ‘hit’ and to me LO is not a hit, especially when compared to what he sold during AI and TOML. The fact it’s been a struggle to even hit 300,000 despite airplay increasing. Gold? I don’t know. It may take quite a while if it happens at all. He’ll need to start selling above 20,000 a week IMO.

Yes it has, and I have to say, not all of the references to the term out there in Cookland are all that nice. Yes, peeps, once in awhile I leave my domain here at the big blog to go lurking around the net. .

That’s why I stay here and don’t post on his fanboards. Thank god for being allowed to express opinions that aren’t always sunshine and magic rainbows.

As for Britney I’ve been a fan since she just came onto the music scene. For me many factors go into being a fan of someone and one of the the things I like most about her is I think she’s a great performer. I find her music to be very catchy so I don’t necessarily care if she sings live. Plus I have a major girlcrush on her LOL

Between the Boat Anchor and the Magic Rainbow, what will we call the next single? Oh, the possibilities are endless!

LMAO. I dunno. If it’s Declaration, It will end up something Miley Cyrus related I bet. Ha!

Yes it has, and I have to say, not all of the references to the term out there in Cookland are all that nice. Yes, peeps, once in awhile I leave my domain here at the big blog to go lurking around the net. .

Depends on the thread you’re in. It started out sarcastic and now its venturing into Magic Rainbow territory. That also started out as snark and now it’s all lurve. And yes, we know everyone lurks at DCO. Its pretty obvious. You should post! LOL. Please, mj????? Pretty please?

Is there some kind of blogger etiquette that stops y’all from posting at each others sites? I’ve always wondered about that. Like, do you have a screen name at VFTW, and does Dave have one here? How OT am I right now? LOL.

^ :laugh_tb:

Heehee…I do have a special sn for VFTW…

I would say that LO is a moderate hit. Solid sales, good charting on Top 40 and better charting on HAC, being played in connection with some sports stuff. I would say that Magic Rainbow is a bit hit: platinum sales, good charting on Top 40, top 10 on HAC, and #1 on AC, plus the plays during the Olympics and other big sporting events and use during weddings and such (meaning that it has entered the zeitgeist in some way). Neither was a “smash” hit, like say, Love Song or Bleeding Love—huge sellers that had tons and tons of airplay and really entered the zeitgeist in a big way.

I think a single these days doesn’t quality as a real hit unless it goes platinum. If you look at the top downloads, sales of over 2 million are not uncommon.And I’d say anything that doesn’t go gold, isn’t even in the ballpark. However, rock songs don’t sell dls the way pop does. So it’s kind of hard to compare. (Just trying to keep the focus on numbers in the numbers thread and not on fan clubs, other sites etc.) :blink_tb:

Yay Cookie!!! Me likey da numbers~

Having no background in the industry and no inside info, I still maintain that TPTB chose LO for reasons beyond single sales. 1) Chris Cornell, for starters, and the likely cred that could come along with his writing credit. 2) The sheer (near)impossibility of the song and the corresponding reality that not just anyone can sing it — highlighting that Cook is special, not just another wannabe. And, 3) possibly the ability to cross-sell in rock and pop. I also toss out there my belief in the very distinct probability that LO IS selling the album, and it is difficult to maintain otherwise simply because it’s not a stand alone giant single — with the rock genre being different and all that jazz. (pun intended)

Anywho, we can agree to disagree, how could we not, seeing as we’re all speculating and reading tea leaves and such anyway. LOL

Good days and good numbers all around… Fa la la la la, la la la la… (Here’s where I need a Santa smiley!)

Is there some kind of blogger etiquette that stops yà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢all from posting at each others sites? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve always wondered about that. Like, do you have a screen name at VFTW, and does Dave have one here? How OT am I right now? LOL.

Excluding a couple of exceptions, I don’t post at other American Idol sites. It’s just a rule I have for myself, and I think it’s a good one for me. I get into enough trouble here, I don’t need to go spreading it around the net. lol.

Thanks for the invite, though. .

Well going back to numbers… I really don’t care if LO is a hit or not. I mean, the albums selling, so after that it gravy to me. The worst that can happen is the they will pull it and put out another one in January, which is not the worst thing in the world. He’ll probably be in the vicinity of 650-700K albums sold by the end of the year, so he’s in good shape even if LO under-performs for the album in January. My guess is they will push it as high as it will go, probably to near the top of HAC, before they jump ship.

Aww mj, you’re welcome. But I’m still sad you can’t come play. That would be so fun to watch. For me anyway, and we know its all about my amusement. Heh.

Is there some kind of blogger etiquette that stops yà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢all from posting at each others sites? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve always wondered about that. Like, do you have a screen name at VFTW, and does Dave have one here? How OT am I right now? LOL.

Rickey posts here from time to time. He uses the screen name “Rickey”, funnily anough. (-;

Everyone has their own definition of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹hità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ and to me LO is not a hit

While I don’t consider LO a hit, I don’t feel the need to beat the poor dead horse when there’s nothing to be done about it. Until the next single comes out, whenever that is, LO is it, and all we can do is hope for the best for that little Boat Anchor (said with love!). I choose, like many others, to focus on the fact that the album is selling very well so far even without a strong lead off single. For me that bodes well for the future, because if DCTR can hold its own now, It might get a real boost if/when a more successful single comes out. I sort of like the possibility that we haven’t seen what a strong single can do for the album yet.

When I first heard LO, I thought it would be a good first single, even though I personally didn’t care for it that much (still don’t).

Having said that, I have to agree with Kirsten–I think the song has underperformed. Cook proved he could sell a boat load of singles with TOML, and he’ll do it again, but not with LO.

In the end, it’s all good. The album is selling well without a hit single. It’s going to do fine through the Christmas rush. There will be a 2nd single–”Declaration” probably–it will more than likely perform better than LO, and I have no doubt Cook will continue to sell albums.

I sort of like the possibility that we havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen what a strong single can do for the album yet.

True. The thought of what one can do is all kinds of inspiring.

Yeah, maybe, but I can’t see that on charts much right now, with the exception of Kid Rock. Not really just a pop thing, Saving Abel is not in top50, or of course the new single queen Lady Gaga…

I agree with Kirsten about LO. It’s doing okay simply because it’s a decent song with mega-exposure, but it’s not the hit song he deserves–and will have before long. It’s simply frustrating because there are a lot of better songs on the cd that will do better, and it’s hard to wait for them to have their season in the sun.

On the other hand, if LO was the best song off the cd and was only a moderate hit, that would be bad, but we are blessed with a cd that has several potential hit songs. There’s a lot to look forward to. It’s just hard to wait. :lol_wp:

I think the cd sales will go even higher once he gets a hit song or two or three or four … like Kelly C and Daughtry. I’m glad they didn’t submit LO for a Grammy nomination this year. Next year I hope he’ll have 2 or 3 songs to submit.

I think the cd is even better than Daughtry or Breakaway, because on those cds I liked half the songs, but on DCTR I like basically every song, which is quite a feat for any artist to accomplish.

Has any other AI winner’s first single sparked this much controversy? Just asking because LO seems to be attracting a lot of different opinions.

I am not a number cruncher and this is the first time I’ve paid any attention to numbers. I don’t think LO is a hit single in the context of how much other artists are selling. On the other hand, I think it’s a moderate radio hit given the amount of radio play it’s been getting. Are the two always mutually exclusive anyway? Does it have to always mean that when something is getting a lot of radio play or exposure that it’ll sell singles? (This is not rhetorical btw, I am really asking.)

On the other hand, I have never seen it as a boat anchor. I’m seeing things more from the perspective that when people see DC promoting LO, they go to itunes and decide to not just get LO but get the entire record hence the disparity between the single sales and record sales. And I think we can pretty much agree that the record sales now are not just the DC fans or AI fans in general. This is getting to general public territory. So LO is not getting sales as a single because people are purchasing DCTR instead of LO alone, which in my book is even better.

There’s been talk that Cookie is sellling despite LO. I kinda agree that he could have had a bigger opening/weekly sales if he had a bigger hit.

This thinking leads me to this question: if many people think David Cook is underperforming, given his track record during AI, what is the opinion about Archie’s performance? I’m curious since he proved also that he could sell during AI and just recently, he broke into platinum territory. Shouldn’t a pedigree like that result in a better weekly output?

Boat anchors, magic rainbows… the cheesy monikers are destined to follow him. All in good fun. Seems appropriate from the self-proclaimed Goober from the Midwest.

Great news about DCTR’s numbers as well as Archie’s album. Am not a betting woman, so I will not pretend to guess what the future holds, but I’d say for albums that are in their 3rd and 4th week, respectively, both albums have solid numbers. Fabulous.

MJ, see you over at DCO (wink). Seriously, though, MJ, I really enjoy your blog. Great numbers and goodies every day. Thanks.

if many people think David Cook is underperforming, given his track record during AI, what is the opinion about Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s performance? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m curious since he proved also that he could sell during AI and just recently, he broke into platinum territory. Shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t a pedigree like that equal a better weekly output?

Oh, wait, I know this one!
Pop doesn’t sell albums, pop sells singles. Right?

For some reason, the opposite doesn’t seem to apply, though, because I guess Rock is supposed to sell bucketloads of both? IDK. Just repeating what I read here…

Guys, what was TOML (went platinum)? Mince meat? That is a single on his new CD, and I think selling a million copies of a song qualifies it as a hit. Okay? And LO video has been #1 2 out of 3 weeks on VH1 Top 20 Countdown, so it’s doing very well, too. And yes DC’s fans have been anxiously anticipating and preordering his new CD, but he has many more fans out there purchasing this new CD, and sometimes more than one to give out as Christmas gifts. For some reason (I think I know what it is) DC has generated a lot of talk since he started singing covers on AI (btw, that’s what every single person on AI does, they sing COVERS people). Oh, yeah, and Cornell gave DC his blessing on DC’s cover of Cornell’s cover on Billie Jean. DC’s CD will go gold before his birthday in December, and when you consider the established artists he is going against that have new CD’s out right now as well, you have to admit this DC must have something going right! Not one song on his CD is worthy of being skipped, and I surmise that he will have many many singles come off of this CD very soon. Permanent was used in Canada’s dance show “So You Think You Can Dance” and choked up and made the JUDGES cry, so what, me worry? That makes me MAD!!! :smirk2_ee: (get the pun?) LOVE DAVID COOK! ALWAYS WILL! AND I SUSPECT HE COULD HAVE HIS PICK TO MARRY ANY ONE OF A MILLION WOMEN RIGHT NOW ‘CAUSE HE’S SO HOT!

if many people think David Cook is underperforming, given his track record during AI, what is the opinion about Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s performance? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m curious since he proved also that he could sell during AI and just recently, he broke into platinum territory. Shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t a pedigree like that equal a better weekly output?

Speaking only for myself, I never said HE is underperforming. I said I think LO as a song is underperforming. I have no complaints about his current album sales. Archie didn’t sell almost a million downloads in a WEEK coming right off of AI so I look at that as far as DC goes in terms of how he can sell. Archie I think is doing more than fine for a runner-up. Album wise he’ll probably outsell all 2nd place finishers except maybe Clay, and he has a platinum single. I don’t think he’s underperforming at all.

Thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s been talk that Cookie is sellling despite LO. I kinda agree that he could have had a bigger opening/weekly sales if he had a bigger hit.

This thinking leads me to this question: if many people think David Cook is underperforming, given his track record during AI, what is the opinion about Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s performance? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m curious since he proved also that he could sell during AI and just recently, he broke into platinum territory. Shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t a pedigree like that result in a better weekly output?

First, I never said that Cook was underperforming. I said that LO was underperforming. I think Cook’s album is doing just fine.

This thinking leads me to this question: if many people think David Cook is underperforming, given his track record during AI, what is the opinion about Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s performance? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m curious since he proved also that he could sell during AI and just recently, he broke into platinum territory. Shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t a pedigree like that result in a better weekly output?

Your comparing apples to waffles.

DA isn’t underperforming in any way. He’s selling singles and albums quite fine and dandily.

Nor do I think DC is underperforming. It is ok if LO doesn’t set the world on fire; DC will have more singles.

How many albums did Archuleta sell finally versus the HDD amount, or are the numbers only available for the top 10?

^^ Only the top 10 is currently available.

Gotcha, thanks!

Apple waffles actually sound kind of good…

sleepyinsomniac, I think reaction to Jordin’s leadoff single Tattoo was pretty mixed, although when it was released people didn’t care enough to have a strong opinion. I’m impressed the label was patient enough to support it to platinum.

Gold sales for DC in time for his birthday, woohoo!

Very good numbers for Cook.
I bought his album yesterday. I love it!

My husband noticed that David has the smallest percentage drop of any of the “regular” artists in the Top 10 this week. The only ones with smaller drops are the 2 soundtracks. Go David!!

Chart position / Artist / Album / TW Sales / % increase / LW Sales / Total Sales
1 SPEARS*BRITNEY CIRCUS 505,073 999 496 505,694
2 SWIFT*TAYLOR FEARLESS 193,495 -28 267,371 1,270,536
3 BEYONCE I AM…SASHA FIERCE 152,816 -41 257,377 893,370
4 WEST*KANYE 808S & HEARTBREAK 141,678 -69 450,145 593,073
5 NICKELBACK DARK HORSE 133,373 -25 177,767 637,852
6 TWILIGHT SOUNDTRACK 133,180 -18 161,687 691,636
7 AKON FREEDOM 110,560 999 297 110,861
8 HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 3: SENIOR SOUNDTRACK 90,518 -7 97,274 936,627
9 VARIOUS NOW 29 89,658 -38 145,347 522,689
10 COOK*DAVID DAVID COOK 87,069 -22 111,623 478,504

And, wow- getting a song in the soundtrack of a big movie seems like a really good way to get exposure and sell songs. It’s certainly helped increase Eric Hutchinson’s (Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants 2) and Paramore’s (Twilight) visibility. Guess radio play isn’t everything.

I guess what I do when I hear a new single on the radio of a new artist is the following: I go to iTunes and listen to a snippet of the single. Before I buy the single, though, I listen to other snippets of the album. If I like most of the songs, I will buy the album. If I don’t, I will buy the single. Since Cook’s album seems past just having AI people buying it, I will assume that LO is at least bringing them to listen to the rest of the album, and it seems, buying it. If it was such a horrible song, then they probably wouldn’t even give the album a test listen. And in the end, it really is all about the number of albums sold, isn’t it? For every album sold, an artist would have to sell 10-15 copies of a single to make the same amount of money. So for a platinum single, that would equate to about 100,000 albums. So I guess I would want a single to ultimately sell the album. LO seems to be doing that. Could a different single have sold more albums? Perhaps. But we still have that opportunity with the next single, so to me it seems, nothing is lost. If the album wasn’t selling, then LO may have been an awful choice that couldn’t be corrected and the whole Cook opportunity may have been lost for good.

As a boat anchor, it’s a “Light” boat anchor, IMO.

LOL, sorry couldn’t resist, it’s all in love and fun!

Ken Barnes album numbers for idols is now up. DA scored about a 1K increase from HDD’s estimate, for around 56K in his fourth week, a 16% decline from last week (btw, that puts my guess of 55-56K right on the mark). He sticks at #19. And, as we already know, DC comes in at #10 with 87K in his third week. Jordin’s back in the top 200!! At #199. lol. Go Jordin!

I think a single these days doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t quality as a real hit unless it goes platinum.

Not surprisingly, I happen to agree with FolkFan in regards to LO (modest hit) and TOML (big hit). But as we all know, this discussion really does come down to how you define the term. Is a song considered a hit based on downloads of the single itself? Airplay and chart position in one or more formats? Airplay on CHR only? Position on one of Billboard’s hybrid charts like the Hot 100? Ability to support album sales? Becoming part of the pop cultural zeitgeist? Some elusive combination of the above?

I’m certain we will never answer that question to everybody’s satisfaction here, but I do question the platinum sales bar as the sole definition of a hit. Here are some quick & dirty comparisons pulled from this week’s SoundScan report of the top 50 digital downloads. Would these singles not be considered “hits,” even though they were all virtually inescapable in recent months? (Release dates in parentheses):

O.A.R.*SHATTERED (TURN THE CAR…) (7/1/08) – 573,141 in 24 weeks
SHONTELLE*T-SHIRT (7/15/08) – 477,064 in 22 weeks
ADELE*CHASING PAVEMENTS (1/21/08) – 250,492 in 47 weeks

All have had strong airplay in various formats, heavy VH1 rotation, and would be (at least IMO) considered well-known, recognizable songs. Here’s how ‘Light On’ compares:

DAVID COOK LIGHT ON (9/30/08) – 298,215 in 10 Weeks

I acknowledge that the Adele example might be a little out of scope since she really onlly broke in the U.S. recently, but I included her since she has had a lot of recent promotion, a la Cook, including a very well-recieved SNL appearance. But even discounting “Chasing Pavements,” LO still has the highest weekly sales average of all of these.

Oh, and speaking of promotion. I also respectfully disagree with Kirsten on this point:

I will give RCA/19Alphabet credit for pulling out all the stops to try to make the song a hit, but fundamentally, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think they should have had to try that hard for a David Cook song.

I honestly don’t think that RCA pulled out all the stops to make LO a “hit” (when defined as a sales monster). If that were the case, the promotional blitz would have started in September/October, with a ton of radio appearances and a quick-to-market video geared toward moving the song up the charts as quickly as possible. There was very little if any of that.

Seems to me that they decided to let the single grow fairly organically towards the album release date, and that all of the major promotion kicked-in in November and has been focused on the record (with LO, and Cook’s increasingly impressive ability to sing it live, as just one of the hooks). Airplay for the song really only recently started hitting its stride, and despite the x-mas song sabatical, that “clunker” is soon to be top 10 on HAC and at least top 25 on Mainstream Top-40.

So all that being said, I just do not see how dumping the single and scrambling to release and promote a replacement sometime between October 1st and November 18th would have been a smarter strategy to drive album sales than the path taken. But again, this is not new territory and I do feel a bit guilty about that poor beleaguered horse.

Thanks Lisa. thats good for David 16% aint bad at all.

Ha. I just saw MJ posted the Google Zeitgeist rankings. So I guess Dave himself could be considered a “hit” by that definition, even if LO is not.

So did the official Billboard numbers come in yet? Or just HDD estimates?

p.s. LO is doing fine. But it’s not the #1 hit that I think some of the other songs will be. So I’m anxious to see that happen. I should fast forward a few months I guess.

So did the official Billboard numbers come in yet? Or just HDD estimates?

Ken (at Idol Chatter) has the official SoundScan numbers which Billboard uses (he is just required to round them), so we do have official numbers now.

I don’t think people were saying that David Cook is underperforming, just the single. Obviously the album isn’t underperforming when it’s about to sell gold next week. Now, as long as the album keeps selling at a decent clip, I really don’t care how high LO charts or how many downloads it sells, but I can understand why some feel that it’s underperforming as a single.

As for Archie, personally I think it would be silly for one to suggest that he is underperforming so far. Why would what he’s accomplished thus far be considered “underperforming”? Because he isn’t selling as many albums as David Cook? He’s the runner-up, he doesn’t have to sell as many albums as the winner. Even if you use the “pop artists sell more singles than albums” rationalization, he’s not underperforming in that department either since his album will probably cross the 500K mark in sales a couple of weeks after Cook’s. Not that there’s anything wrong with rationalizing things-I remember the “rock artists sell more albums than singles” rationalization being floated around when LO didn’t sell as many downloads right out of the gate. I think both rationalizations are fair to make. Here’s a guy who wasn’t even supposed to be able to compete with Cook in the sales department according to quite a few people after the season ended, yet those predictions aren’t panning out so far. Cook’s album is outselling his so far, but it’s not like there’s a Daughtry/Taylor Hicks margin between the two. He’s sold almost 400K albums in four weeks, so it seems to me that Archie is more than holding his own in that department. Considering the track record of most runners-up from this show, I’d say he’s outperforming so far.

^^ Right on shell29.

LadyM, seriously, I don’t believe in being redundant. So let me just say, so much word. Btw, I’ve never felt closer. Hee.

Excellent consistency from both Davids. I’m not sure why LO underperforming in sales is such a controversial topic. It’s actually a huge positive for Cook that he’s selling so many albums with a single that isn’t a smash. He can sell albums without a huge hit. Big plus for his label.

Archie is doing just fine himself. It’ll be interesting to see what happens to sales as Crush is moving down the Top 40 chart.

Is a song considered a hit based on downloads of the single itself? Airplay and chart position in one or more formats? Airplay on CHR only? Position on one of Billboardà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s hybrid charts like the Hot 100? Ability to support album sales? Becoming part of the pop cultural zeitgeist? Some elusive combination of the above?

I’d have to say it’s an elusive combination. I totally agree that the going platinum is not the only landmark one can use. I think that Spotlight was a hit for Jennifer Hudson based on it’s amazing airplay, but R&B that does not cross over to pop doesn’t sell a lot of downloads. Carrie rarely gets those 1 million sellers, but country doesn’t move a lot of downloads either, so I think we can say that she’s had some big format hits. One could say that Rock doesn’t get a lot of downloads, but given that Light On isn’t getting a lot of play on Rock stations, I’m not sure it gets to claim to be a Rock format hit.

As for big hits, I actually do think you need to either be dominating some of the big charts (e.g. Urban/UAC/Rhythmic, POP/HAC/AAA Alternative/Rock/Active or Country) before you get called a big hit. One format is rarely enough (and if that one format is something like the Tropical charts, well that’s nice, but it doesn’t mean much). If you are on the Pop/HAC category, you need to move about 2 million to be a big hit in my book. 1 million if to qualify as a moderate hit (most reasonably successful songs hit a million these days. I suspect they will be changing the certification criteria at some point). Monster hits are in the 3-4 million range. But everybody can have their own measuring stick. I’m just not very generous with labeling things hits and that might be accounting for some of these disagreements.

I acknowledge that the Adele example might be a little out of scope since she really onlly broke in the U.S. recently, but I included her since she has had a lot of recent promotion, a la Cook, including a very well-recieved SNL appearance. But even discounting à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Chasing Pavements,à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  LO still has the highest weekly sales average of all of these.

I still don’t understand the criteria you are using for picking those three songs. I’ve never even heard of “Shattered” or “T-shirt” (what format are they in?) and as you say, “Chasing Pavement” isn’t really comparable.

Why are we not comparing to more like songs? Why not The Fray (who have moved 278327 in three weeks) or Nickelback (who have moved 741242 in the same 10 weeks)? Why are we not comparing to the 10 week totals of Daughtry’s “It’s Not Over”? Heck, why are we not comparing to the 10 week totals of “Time of My Life”?

I can understand why a debut artist needs organic growth. They have no fan base. They haven’t been exposed to millions of people after 3 months on television’s most popular show. They haven’t moved a million downloads in 4 days. They don’t have an existing moderate hit on the Pop charts. They aren’t likely to be invited to sing at SNL before the album is even out. David Cook shouldn’t need organic growth. He’s not an indie artist. He’s not even Jordin Sparks. He has a fan base. He has a track record. If the label has to start from ground zero with him again, I think they are doing something wrong. Sure, they slightly moved his styling from AI, but it’s not as big a move as what Jive did with the David they ended up signing (from dirge singer to pop singer in 3 short months).

I honestly donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think that RCA pulled out all the stops to make LO a à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“hità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (when defined as a sales monster). If that were the case, the promotional blitz would have started in September/October, with a ton of radio appearances and a quick-to-market video geared toward moving the song up the charts as quickly as possible. There was very little if any of that.

They had some splashy debut on AOL. They had ads all over the place (from the main page of iTunes to the Mediabase login page to google alerts to e-mails). Granted, he didn’t do a radio interview thing, but he was probably finishing his album. Quick-to-market vidoes look awful, so I think it’s a good thing they tried to make a non-emberassing video for him. I’ve never seen an Idol winner with better promotion than the ones that have been given to Cookie and Light On (heck, some Idols don’t even get singles released before their albums). He has good album sales, but given his ability to move downloads, I don’t think “Light On” is as successful as it should have been.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not sure why LO underperforming in sales is such a controversial topic.

I have yet to (intentionally) listen to Light On on my CD. I like it well enough, but in light of the entire piece of work, the other songs are simply better.

Apparently, there’s a disconnect between the sales of the album vs. the sales of the single. They don’t match.

I don’t know that it’s as much controversial as it is…confusing or inexplicable. Why was it chosen? Why not release a different one? No one knows the answer, but no question about it, David Cook is seemingly great for conversation.

Ken’s download numbers up now.

As for Archie, personally I think it would be silly for one to suggest that he is underperforming so far. Why would what heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s accomplished thus far be considered à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“underperformingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ? Because he isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t selling as many albums as David Cook? Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the runner-up, he doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have to sell as many albums as the winner. Even if you use the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“pop artists sell more singles than albumsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  rationalization, heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not underperforming in that department either since his album will probably cross the 500K mark in sales a couple of weeks after Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s. Not that thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s anything wrong with rationalizing things-I remember the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“rock artists sell more albums than singlesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  rationalization being floated around when LO didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t sell as many downloads right out of the gate. I think both rationalizations are fair to make. Hereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a guy who wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t even supposed to be able to compete with Cook in the sales department according to quite a few people after the season ended, yet those predictions arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t panning out so far. Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album is outselling his so far, but ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not like thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a Daughtry/Taylor Hicks margin between the two. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sold almost 400K albums in four weeks, so it seems to me that Archie is more than holding his own in that department. Considering the track record of most runners-up from this show, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d say heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s outperforming so far.

WORD. TO. ALL. THIS. Shell29 FTW!

Here’s the thing and I promise this will be my last comment on the subject. DC won AI by A LOT of votes and he made a lot of fans on AI. I have no clue if his current sales are a result of expanding the fanbase or the AI fanbase still buying the CD. There’s a big difference between knowing a single is on iTunes and seeing a familiar face on a CD cover in a store and buying it. I don’t think we can tell right now if LO is selling the CD because 3 weeks of sales during Christmas shopping season doesn’t say a whole lot. And yes I’ll throw Taylor’s name out there even though some hate that and say even he managed decent sales through Christmas shopping despite not having a smash radio hit. Come January if DC manages to hold his own and still deliver decent sales for the album or if LO actually starts increasing more in downloads I’ll believe the song is doing it’s job JMO of course.

I’m not going to compare DC to Shontelle or O.A.R. because frankly they weren’t seen every week by 30 million people on AI. I’m not going to compare LO to other rock songs because it’s not even ON the rock charts.

Cook remains in the top 10 & Jordin makes a comeback

10 COOK*DAVID DAVID COOK 87,069 -22 111,623 478,504
19 ARCHULETA*DAVID DAVID ARCHULETA 55,699 -16 66,175 371,415
53 UNDERWOOD*CARRIE CARNIVAL RIDE 20,017 -6 21,199 2,490,034
72 HUDSON*JENNIFER JENNIFER HUDSON 14,087 -25 18,786 488,505
111 DAUGHTRY DAUGHTRY 8,291 -6 8,815 4,303,731
141 PICKLER*KELLIE KELLIE PICKLER 6,745 -5 7,103 120,856
199 SPARKS*JORDIN JORDIN SPARKS 4,603 1 4,557 965,241

Why would what heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s accomplished thus far be considered à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“underperformingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ? Because he isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t selling as many albums as David Cook?

The context of my original question is since Archie has a platinum single, shouldn’t the album be selling more? Which came from the discussion about LO underperforming vs. DCTR’s sales.

Hyper twink, just because the single is platinum doesnt nessicarily mean much. He’s selling perfectly fine for a pop album. DA is selling pretty similar to how Pink is selling and she had a monster hit with ‘So What’

“Shattered (Turn the Car Around)” is the second single and second track from Of A Revolution (O.A.R.)’s sixth studio album, All Sides. It is currently their biggest hit to date, surpassing “Love and Memories”.

No. 5 HAC right now, peak No. 1 on AAA.

Archie’s good album sales reflect a strong first single while Cook’s very good album sales way outperform the dls of LO. However, if you consider TOML the first Cook single, it kind of balances out.

I think Cook is doing great and Archie is probably doing better than some people expected during his season. He’s def outperforming the expectations that Archie the pop star would be a joke. I think Cook coming off his season with great download sales was expected to be a very commercial winner.

Anyway props to the Idol album percentage gainer of the week – My Kind of Holiday (Elliott Yamin’s Xmas album)

nvm

This thinking leads me to this question: if many people think David Cook is underperforming, given his track record during AI, what is the opinion about Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s performance? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m curious since he proved also that he could sell during AI and just recently, he broke into platinum territory. Shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t a pedigree like that result in a better weekly output?

I honestly don’t thing the OP was saying that Archie is underperforming. In comparing apples and waffles this is just the reverse question of what’s going on…maybe? IDK

I hope this makes sense because as far as arm chair quarterbacks go, I don’t even make the team. I’m just thinking that LO could be selling albums. I’ve read on here that pop sells more singles and rock sells more albums and I believe this is exactly what’s going on. Before this year, I would have never dreamed of going online to listen to a single (AOL stream). LO, is being made more available to the general public now and I just think it still have a chance to climb. If that climb and exposure results in selling more albums as opposed to singles then to me it’s doing it’s job. (On this point I am ONLY referring to DC, because I couldn’t be more happy and thrilled for DA and his fans, as he is proving himself far and above many expectations and believe he will continue to do so.)

Go DC!
Go Archie!

The context of my original question is since Archie has a platinum single, shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t he be selling more?

In four weeks, “Crush” sold 353,593 copies. In four weeks, David Archuleta sold roughly 371,000 copies. Seems like his album sales are right on pace with his single sales, with the album doing slightly better, even! Is that underperforming?

The context of my original question is since Archie has a platinum single, shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t the album be selling more? Which came from the discussion about LO underperforming vs. DCTRà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sales.

Oops, looks like you beat me to clarifying your question hypertwink.

What baffles me, at the end of it all, is this:
1. It seems people agree that selling album is what brings the big money in, and that doing well in album sales means your record company is happy with you.
2. David Cook is selling albums. He is doing so, supposedly, without a smash hit single.
3. The fact that his single has done moderately well/Poorly (depends on your point of view) has not stopped him from selling albums so far.

Then why oh why all this angst about LO? I agree with the poster who said earlier – if he can sell albums well now, that could only count as a point in his favor – he doesn’t need a giant hit single to move units. Why are there predictions of doom and gloom?
I don’t believe it’s still the devoted fans who are buying the album, 3 weeks in. Sure, the holidays are helping, but the holidays help everyone – it helps to varying degrees, and the fact that DCTR is still in the Top 10 speaks for itself.

I think I would have been far more concerned if DC had a giant single and could not move albums. Because in that case, you know that everyone likes his song, and it’s still not enough for them to want to hear more. Where do you go from there?

What I find humorous about all of this is that we can criticize LO for underselling itself and then extrapolate from its own underselling that it most likely is not selling the album as well as another single would have. But, then in almost the very same pen stroke, we will argue that we should not be expecting Crush’s spectacular sales to, at least to some degree, bump up the sales of its album.

Yeah, yeah, pop v. rock, singles v. albums, yada, yada, yada… Me thinks we fans like to rationalize, argue, defend, hope, what have you — myself most certainly included. Speaking of, personally, I believe we have extraordinarily high expectations if we truly think that either David has not done wonderfully so far… But, hey, what sort of fans would we be if we wish for the moon (universe) for our boys?!

:thumbup_tb:

I love it when ladymadonna and I agree. LadyM’s examples, actually, are quite interesting. OAR’s Shattered is a song that I know I looked at and said, if this can get play on Top 40, so can LO. It has charted on Top 40, peaked at #2 and is currently in the top 5 on HAC, and has charted on AC. [I’m not sure what, if anything, it did on the rock charts, as I’ve not been watching those recently.) Style-wise, Shattered is a rock-oriented power ballad, and the fact that its performance has been consistent with LO’s in terms of charting (although, having been out longer, we know its peak on HAC, while we don’t know that with LO). So the consistency in sales is, I think, meaningful. Shontelle’s T-Shirt was, until recently, in the top 20 on Top 40, peaking at #16. (And, yes, it has felt like it was everywhere.) Adele’s Chasing Pavements was a big sensation when it played on SNL, and has done well on HAC, peaking at #16. I personally find the Adele example interesting, because I heard her on SNL, decided to check her out based on the performance, and downloaded—not the single—but the record.

And, no, I don’t agree that using the best-selling pop-rock artist (Nickelback) in recent year as DC’s measuring stick is right, any more than using Britney (hey, she’s pop!) or Beyonce (hey, she’s pop with R&B influences!) or Taylor Swift (hey, she’s a teen!) or Miley Cyrus (hey, she’s a teen with TV backing!) as measuring sticks would be right for DA. If you told me that I had to select an established artist with a record that came out in 2008 as DC’s measuring stick, I’d probably choose Pink, who is likewise someone who straddles that line of rock and pop. And, while her singles have done better than LO, his record sales are beating hers.

In the end, no one knows whether another single would have done better in terms of selling downloads or, more importantly, in terms of selling the record. The record’s debut week was the 20th best selling week of the year for any artist, and it has averaged almost 160,000 sales a week, in a year where the #50 best-selling week was under 180,000. I’d love it if it turned out that another single would produce more sales, because it looks like there will be another single and we could get a boost.

Moving off of LO: So, it looks like there is a good chance that both DC and JHud will have gold sales as of next week, which would make a nice week for AI.

Then why oh why all this angst about LO? Why are there predictions of doom and gloom?

I don’t see any angst regarding LO or predictions of doom and gloom.

I mean, making the point that LO is underperforming, or noticing Cook’s percentage drop last week was a little larger than his peers does NOT equal predicting “doom and gloom” for Cook, imo.

Oops, looks like you beat me to clarifying your question hypertwink

cookcricket ~ Thank you, anyway. :happy_tb:

What I find humorous about all of this is that we can criticize LO for underselling itself and then extrapolate from its own underselling that it most likely is not selling the album as well as another single would have. But, then in almost the very same pen stroke, we will argue that we should not be expecting Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s spectacular sales to, at least to some degree, bump up the sales of its album.

I don’t recall anybody saying Crush wasn’t helping to sell DA’s album, or that we shouldn’t expect it to. I think it is helping. It may be declining in radio airplay, but people don’t forget so quickly, and it’s still #4 on Radio Disney, which goes out to several stations across the country. DA’s album sales are good. To think otherwise is silly. If we all stop looking at DA in terms of DC, and vice versa, we would all get a better picture of what’s going on. Apples and waffles, people. Apples and waffles. They may go well when you put them together, but they’re certainly nothing alike.

And, while [Pink's] singles have done better than LO, his record sales are beating hers.

Well, you’re comparing two different types of artists there. I don’t consider Pink to be like DC at all. I get the comparison between Pink and DA, but not Pink and DC. DA’s songs are pop-rock–he’s got the R&B voice but his songs definitely lean more towards pop and pop-rock than anything R&B. He’s not like Beyonce who is very rhythmic, and isn’t pop/dance like Britney. Besides, Pink’s sales are known to be very steady, too. She’ll go platinum or double platinum, eventually. She’s a grower, not a show-er.

We’re also still in December–a lot of these arguments will be moot because December sales generally don’t reflect the overall stability of an album, especially one that is released right before the holiday buying season.

Both DA and DC will need a good amount of radio airplay in the future to keep selling the way we want them to.

Cook remains in the top 10 & Jordin makes a comeback

Thanks Tony! I’ll put them in the main post.

In the end, no one knows whether another single would have done better in terms of selling downloads or, more importantly, in terms of selling the record.

Exactly. It’s an unwinnable argument. We can’t go to an alternative universe. Nobody can prove they are right. People on each side will have their theories and reasons behind them. People can agree to disagree. Let us just assume that unless somebody posts and says “You know, I think I was wrong” that people will keep the same theories and that their silence on the subject isn’t them secretly admitting that they were wrong. This is like one of those “Is the 1926 Yankees a better team than the 1973 Yankees?”. A fine discussion, but difficult to prove to the other side of the debate.

I don’t see why Pink and DC would be considered to have sufficiently different genres as not to be comparable. Of course, it is also my hope that DC, like Pink, will turn out to be a very steady seller, likewise hitting platinum or double-platinum, eventually.

But I do know what you mean about not comparing DA and DC, soundscene. I’ve been wanting people to stop doing that ever since I first started seeing comparisons regarding Crush and LO. Perhaps if DA fans and DC fans alike stop making those sorts of comparisons, everyone else would follow. Which would be lovely.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see why Pink and DC would be considered to have sufficiently different genres as not to be comparable. Of course, it is also my hope that DC, like Pink, will turn out to be a very steady seller, likewise hitting platinum or double-platinum, eventually.

I think it’s because I’ve been watching Pink very closely since So What came out (its impact date was the week before Crush’s impact date). And her promotion, marketing, etc., has been very much like DA’s. They’re under the same label group, they both put out albums that range from pure pop to pop-rock. I suppose, for me, it’s not just the genre that makes me think DC and Pink are not very comparable. It’s the entire difference in their situations. Whether DC’s album can be considered rock or pop-rock, he’s not on the poppy side of pop-rock–Pink is. Her songs have classic pop hooks. And the biggest difference–Pink sells very much like a pop artist. She doesn’t sell like a rock artist at all, and never has.

Frankly, it’s difficult to find any current artist that is comparable to either David because they both have 3 months on AI. But if I had to find one to use as a measuring stick for DA it would be Pink.

In terms of paradigm models, then I have no qualms about the merits of a Pink and DC comparisons. I think there a lot of validity and logic in FolkFan’s arguments.

As for “[Pink] Sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a grower, not a show-er.”

Well, I’d also argue that in these times, everyone who hopes to be a successful artists right now should be a grower and not a show-er. Sure, ideally, it would be great to be a show-er, stabilizer, and grower, but realistically speaking, highly unlikely. I’d love to see who is consistently doing that. Right now, Taylor Swift is one of the few who are displaying that.

The context of my original question is since Archie has a platinum single, shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t the album be selling more? Which came from the discussion about LO underperforming vs. DCTRà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sales.

His album has sold almost 400K copies in four weeks. How many more albums was he supposed to sell with his platinum single? How can one say that the Crush isn’t selling the album (especially considering he doesn’t have another single out right now)? I don’t get it.

The same argument could be made for Cook, couldn’t it? Shouldn’t DCTR be selling more with one platinum single in TOML, appearing on Oprah’s season premiere, appearing on SNL on the Saturday before the presidential election, performing a mini-concert at the AMAs pre-show, having yourself and your current single featured in a promo for the upcoming season of AI, etc. etc.? Shouldn’t LO be selling more at this point with all the promotion it has received? Should he be selling albums and singles like Daughtry did before him, especially considering that Daughtry didn’t get anywhere near the kind of promo and exposure Cook has received (as he should being the winner) when his album and single were released?

Selling 478K in three weeks is obviously nothing to sneeze at. Neither is selling 371K in four weeks. Both of these guys are doing well so far. Cook’s album is not underperforming. Archie’s album is not underperforming. I am happy.

. Perhaps if DA fans and DC fans alike stop making those sorts of comparisons, everyone else would follow. Which would be lovely.

Amen…

Both DA and DC will need a good amount of radio airplay in the future to keep selling the way we want them to.

ALTNOY was added to the playlist at WKSE in NY. This is the first one I saw other than on demand at some stations in NJ that don’t have the Mediabase request form.

http://www.mediabase.com/mmrweb/7/stationplaylistrequest.asp?c_let=WKSE-FM

So, I’m getting confused here. Comparing DCTR and LO to the way rock albums and singles usually perform is wrong because he’s not getting played on rock stations. Comparing him to pop-rockers like Pink is wrong because he’s not really pop like she is. Comparing DC to OAR and other rock-oriented HAC artists is wrong, since either they weren’t on AI, or they aren’t selling as well as Nickelback or Daughtry. Except Daughtry’s sales are a couple of years old now, so the market has changed too much to compare, and Nickelback is an established act with an automatic in at radio stations, so that’s not really fair either. Oh, and while his larger than average sales drop was cause for major concern last week, his smaller than average drop this week (in comparison to others in the top 10) is meaningless, so much so that no one even noticed it when I posted it. Is that a reasonable summary?

If so, then the situation is just what I always knew it would be- David Cook is incomparable, and in a class all his own. :smile2_ee:

If we all stop looking at DA in terms of DC, and vice versa, we would all get a better picture of whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s going on.

But it’s the nature of idol. Everyone always compares all the past idols with each other. Haven’t we all done it here for years? Doesn’t the media do it all the time? We have lists and lists of all the idols ranked amongst themselves (for singles, album sales, etc etc). And the idols are all across different genres. So we always compare the idols across different genres. So I think it is unrealistic at this point in time (after 7 seasons of idol) to say that idols shouldn’t be compared with each other. It wouldn’t be much fun if we didn’t!!!! LOL

It’s ALL good! No longer expecting the worst, just continuing to hope for the best!!!!

Unless you consider commentary thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s less than rosy on every single front regarding your favorite Idol à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“predicting doom and gloomà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

LOL, maybe that was a tad overdramatic.

The main thing is, it seems to me like most of the chart/sales threads turn negative rather quickly, even when the sales are great. Instead of celebrating any kind of success, somehow it turns into “where is David Cook not doing as well as he should be doing”. I have no problem with views that are less than rosy, but there seems to be a distinct lack of proportion.

Just an observation and just IMHO.

Why do I think that if Crush had sold less than 300k downloads since it’s release and LO was close to 1.2 million, the argument from some would be too bad Archie’s first single isn’t doing better, etc.. :biggrin_wp:

“David Cook is incomparable, and in a class all his own.”

If only… but that ^^ was seriously LOL funny, CathyMK

Your idea of fun is interesting, mac. [haha---tm, DA.]

Yahoo blog article on this chart week: http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart_watch/23125/week-ending-dec-7-2008-the-unsinkable-britney-spears/

The main thing is, it seems to me like most of the chart/sales threads turn negative rather quickly, even when the sales are great. Instead of celebrating any kind of success, somehow it turns into à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“where is David Cook not doing as well as he should be doingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

Gotta get your celebrating in early, girl! :laugh_tb:

And yes Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll throw Taylorà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s name out there even though some hate that and say even he managed decent sales through Christmas shopping despite not having a smash radio hit.

Nah, he didn’t. He sold well for 2 weeks, had a big drop in this 3rd week, and never came back. And he was an insanely popular winner. So I don’t think you can make that comparison either.

That said, the LO/Crush/Albums sales/Single sales bah blah boat anchor comparison game? The horse is stinking, maggots are forming, and he’s looking down at us from heaven rolling his eyes, IMO. LMAO. Am I alone on this? So, so over it.

Instead of celebrating any kind of success, somehow it turns into à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“where is David Cook not doing as well as he should be doingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have no problem with views that are less than rosy, but there seems to be a distinct lack of proportion.

That’s how you see it because you are passionate about your guy. Sometimes to an Archuleta fan, it seems that he’s getting glossed right over by the love for DC. And this is where the problem lies, IMO. Yes, we are going to compare the successes of the many Idols who are fortunate enough to have something in the marketplace. But we Cook and Archuleta fans (largely) aren’t at the point where we compare with a successful amount of goodwill for the David who isn’t our favorite. Some do. Many don’t. When we look at the past Idols, people will say they are happy for Taylor or Daughtry or whoever, but they seem to have no ill intent toward anyone else. With the two David’s, there does seem to still be undercurrents of ‘see? I was right?’ That’s the part I won’t miss.

So we always compare the idols across different genres. So I think it is unrealistic at this point in time (after 7 seasons of idol) to say that idols shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t be compared with each other. It wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t be much fun if we didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t!!!! LOL

Just because it’s done doesn’t make the comparisons logical. And it’s not fun when people get defensive.

Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s how you see it because you are passionate about your guy. Sometimes to an Archuleta fan, it seems that heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s getting glossed right over by the love for DC. And this is where the problem lies, IMO. Yes, we are going to compare the successes of the many Idols who are fortunate enough to have something in the marketplace. But we Cook and Archuleta fans (largely) arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t at the point where we compare with a successful amount of goodwill for the David who isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t our favorite. Some do. Many donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t. When we look at the past Idols, people will say they are happy for Taylor or Daughtry or whoever, but they seem to have no ill intent toward anyone else. With the two Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s, there does seem to still be undercurrents of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢see? I was right?à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the part I wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t miss.

I think that’s a very valid point.

“The horse is stinking, maggots are forming, and heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s looking down at us from heaven rolling his eyes, IMO. LMAO.”

hahaha LOL

So, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m getting confused here. Comparing DCTR and LO to the way rock albums and singles usually perform is wrong because heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not getting played on rock stations. Comparing him to pop-rockers like Pink is wrong because heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not really pop like she is. Comparing DC to OAR and other rock-oriented HAC artists is wrong, since either they werenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t on AI, or they arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t selling as well as Nickelback or Daughtry. Except Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sales are a couple of years old now, so the market has changed too much to compare, and Nickelback is an established act with an automatic in at radio stations, so thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not really fair either. Oh, and while his larger than average sales drop was cause for major concern last week, his smaller than average drop this week (in comparison to others in the top 10) is meaningless, so much so that no one even noticed it when I posted it. Is that a reasonable summary?

If so, then the situation is just what I always knew it would be- David Cook is incomparable, and in a class all his own.

CathyMK, Bravo!!!

à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“David Cook is incomparable, and in a class all his own.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

If onlyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ but that ^^ was seriously LOL funny, CathyMK

Thanks. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it, until someone comes up with a comparison we can all agree on. I think it’ll be a while. LOL

The horse is stinking, maggots are forming, and heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s looking down at us from heaven rolling his eyes, IMO. LMAO. Am I alone on this? So, so over it.

No ma’am, you are not.

At any rate, I’m begging Season 8 to hurry its butt up.

Ulcer.

I kind of wish S8 would hurry up as well. So we can all move on to the next incomparable guy (girl) who’s God’s gift to the planet. And if only that was a joke.

Your idea of fun is interesting, mac.

I didn’t mean it in a bad way folkfan. I was just joking. I just meant that that is a big part of these boards. Isn’t it? All the comparison lists that Kirsten and others put together so well and that we enjoy seeing. We enable ourselves. So it just seems reasonable that we use these lists as data and continue to compare. If you have lists that compare, then you will get discussions that compare. I think comparisons and discussions are good and different opinions are good, as long as they are done in a civil manner.

I think the fact that DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album sales in two weeks is bigger than LO single sales in 11 weeks is implying that DC is still selling to the fanbase than on basis of his music. Taylor Hicks went Gold in two weeks without a single or video. Daughtry went to Platinum without INO in full swing at radio or a video for INO.

Thank you. That’s that I was trying to get at before but you put it into words better.

So, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m getting confused here. Comparing DCTR and LO to the way rock albums and singles usually perform is wrong because heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not getting played on rock stations. Comparing him to pop-rockers like Pink is wrong because heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not really pop like she is. Comparing DC to OAR and other rock-oriented HAC artists is wrong, since either they werenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t on AI, or they arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t selling as well as Nickelback or Daughtry. Except Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sales are a couple of years old now, so the market has changed too much to compare, and Nickelback is an established act with an automatic in at radio stations, so thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not really fair either. Oh, and while his larger than average sales drop was cause for major concern last week, his smaller than average drop this week (in comparison to others in the top 10) is meaningless, so much so that no one even noticed it when I posted it. Is that a reasonable summary?

If so, then the situation is just what I always knew it would be- David Cook is incomparable, and in a class all his own.

Brilliantly stated, I agree~ :kiss_tb:

Thanks. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s my story, and Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sticking to it, until someone comes up with a comparison we can all agree on. I think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll be a while. LOL

The comparison with other artists is hard to do. I still don’t think the Pink comparison works for either David frankly. I tried to come up with something comparable and the only thing I could make was Miley Cyrus to David A with regards to celebrity off a television show, similar demographics and tween pop lyrics, and you don’t have to jump all over me- I realize that is not a good comparison either. And I have my doubts that former idols would show explosive sales in this economic climate. In my neck of the woods, harsh reality is setting in.

And, be still my heart, OAR is my college band and someone has not heard their single “Shattered”? Aw…

Mmm. I see your point, mac, as I usually do, because I do love your posts. And, yeah, I’ve got a nice little chart of Idol sales after 4 weeks and am waiting to see where DC lands on it, so I’m certainly not immune to it. I guess that I just usually find that these discussions tend to end up with each side a bit [trying to find a neutral word] unhappy because it thinks that the other side selectively looked at data. Maybe if we weren’t trying to do direct comparisons, maybe we’d think less about “other sides.” Maybe not. Maybe that’s the nature of the Idol thing—you make comparisons.

I’ll also say this: a lot of what I listen to are artists who don’t get big sales. I don’t go around assuming that I’m wrong to like them because Britney and Miley Cyrus outsell them. Same thing here. Regardless of whether DC ends up considered the superstar of AI7 or someone else is or there are no superstars of AI7, I’m glad I backed DC, because I like his music.

You can not compare Pink to either David. Pink’s international sales are HUGE compared to her US#. Her last cd sold 1.5M(US) and about 5M worldwide. Next year alone, she will be touring 30 sold-out date in Australia alone. So, for this being her 5th cd, it’s doing pretty well.

I was just curious. When people say they think sales are based on the fan base, how many fans do people think we are talking about? I know AI claims 100 million people voted, but we know that is not true, because people vote multiple times. I know I voted for the full 4 hours (geez, still can’t believe I was a lunatic and sat there and did that!) so I think it would scare me to add up how many times I voted. Does anyone know approximately how many albums the labels count on from idol fans? Is it around 200 or 300K? If those are the numbers, then it seems like both Davids have moved beyond the fanbase.

I guess that I just usually find that these discussions tend to end up with each side a bit [trying to find a neutral word] unhappy because it thinks that the other side selectively looked at data.

I agree folkfan.

The devoted fans don’t wait 3 weeks to buy the album… or they’re really not that devoted, are they?
If we’re talking about casual viewers who are reminded they used to like this guy on Idol, well, those people aren’t avid fans who would buy anything, so they may or may not buy the album based on how much they like what they hear. I wouldn’t call that a “fanbase” purchase.
Or are we talking about people who never watched Idol at all?
I don’t know that I get how anyone would know where to cross that line. I do know that the 1st to 2nd week drop is considered to represent the decrease after most avid fans purchased their copy. I would have to assume there is some reason for that long held notion.

If we can’t know anything until January, but January is known to be a very rough time for CD sales… then don’t we already know to expect a huge drop? What would that tell us about sales? If we can’t deduce anything from December because of the holidays’ inflated sales, how can we gather info from the post holiday slump?
Other than, of course, because we’d have more perspective. But that has nothing to do with the holidays or what time of year this is.

The main thing is, it seems to me like most of the chart/sales threads turn negative rather quickly, even when the sales are great. Instead of celebrating any kind of success, somehow it turns into à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“where is David Cook not doing as well as he should be doingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have no problem with views that are less than rosy, but there seems to be a distinct lack of proportion.

This thread isn’t a fan thread for David Cook or any other Idol.

Those looking for an uninterrupted celebration of your favorite’s “success” need to look elsewhere. Once the sales numbers are available, well then let the analyzing, picking apart and scrutinizing begin.

I won’t have it any other way.

Y’all are free to agree or disagree with each other, but there’s no such thing as the positivity police here at the big blog. For those who can’t stand the negativity, this blog may not be for you.

I agree that we should all agree to disagree, but just really quickly I wanted to clarify the intention of my previous post. Kirsten said:

I still donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t understand the criteria you are using for picking those three songs. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve never even heard of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Shatteredà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  or à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“T-shirtà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (what format are they in?) and as you say, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Chasing Pavementà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really comparable.

Why are we not comparing to more like songs? Why not The Fray (who have moved 278327 in three weeks) or Nickelback (who have moved 741242 in the same 10 weeks)? Why are we not comparing to the 10 week totals of Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Not Overà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ? Heck, why are we not comparing to the 10 week totals of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Time of My Lifeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ?

I chose those particular singles because just on a quick scan of this week’s digital downloads list, they were all…

1) In roughly the same sales tier as LO (or, at least, well below Platinum status)
2) Singles that have charted well in the same formats that LO is charting (HAC and CHR)
3) Songs that, at least in my world, have been pretty ubiquitous and thus would likely be considered “hits” by Joe Radiolistener who does not follow the charts.

The point I was trying to make was simply that a song, in any genre, does not necessarily need to sell a million $.99 downloads in order to be considered a hit. As you said, I do think that it is that elusive combination of factors that determines it. And certainly personal perspective does as well (I know those songs and therefore they were salient examples. You do not and therefore the argument fails).

Essentially I was just trying to use a couple of examples from various genres to refute the idea that there is a single, quantifiable milestone (i.e. only Platinum sellers) that determines a “hit” song. YMMV.

3) Songs that, at least in my world, have been pretty ubiquitous and thus would likely be considered à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“hitsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  by Joe Radiolistener who does not follow the charts.

I’m with you LadyM. Those songs are pretty ubiquitous in my world as well. I don’t think I’ve been able to turn on the radio for the past two months without hearing “Shattered” on the radio. The other two songs are also constants on the 3 HAC radio stations I listen to (one of which leans more rock, one more pop/top 40 and one more AC).

Yà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢all are free to agree or disagree with each other, but thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s no such thing as the positivity police here at the big blog. For those who canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t stand the negativity, this blog may not be for you.

As far as I’m concerned, I can stand it just fine, I simply think it’s worth noting. I find it to be an interesting trend. As I said – just an observation, nothing more.

I kind of wish S8 would hurry up as well. So we can all move on to the next incomparable guy (girl) whoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Godà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s gift to the planet. And if only that was a joke.

Whoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s bigger? Taylor Elvis Hicks or David Jeebus Cook?

Aww, I enjoy both the positivity and the negativity here at MJ’s (haha), but I find the posters here who are just sunshine and rainbows and “OMG I love everything DC does and he’s incomparable” to be incredibly endearing because they convey their enthusiasm and optimism without imposing it on others. I would hate for the (non-imposing) cheerleaders to stop posting here as much as I would hate for the overanalyses (which I also love) to stop.

On topic: thanks for the link to the Yahoo article, Folkfan. I hope DC hangs onto top 10 another week (to match Jhud’s four in October), but I’m kind of doubtful since Akon looks to be the only one to fall out from this week, and Common and Maroon 5 should debut on top 10, right? Does Brandy have a shot?

Hot 100

27 35 DAVID ARCHULETA CRUSH
33 38 HUDSON*JENNIFER SPOTLIGHT-REMIXES
44 49 CARRIE UNDERWOOD JUST A DREAM
60 56 DAVID COOK LIGHT ON

R&B 100

65 63 JENNIFER HUDSON IF THIS ISN’T LOVE

Hot 100 numbers:

lw tw
27 35 DAVID ARCHULETA CRUSH
33 38 HUDSON*JENNIFER SPOTLIGHT-REMIXES
44 49 CARRIE UNDERWOOD JUST A DREAM
60 56 DAVID COOK LIGHT ON

These are basically the top 50, plus others that the person who leaked them found interesting. So no guarantees that others aren’t in the top 100 and we’re just not seeing them yet.

Does anyone know approximately how many albums the labels count on from idol fans? Is it around 200 or 300K? If those are the numbers, then it seems like both Davids have moved beyond the fanbase.

Clive Davis once gave 200-300K as the range an idol was expected to move from the show alone. But that was a long time ago. The other argument you could make is that Taylor Hicks represents what one can do with a fanbase alone, since he had no radio presence and a bit of TV promo appearances on talk shows. It is not likely he brought in new fans. He did, like, just shy of 300k the first week, went gold the second week, sold something like 60K in week 3, and promptly moved down to the 10,000 or less range from there on out. One could say the bulk of his fans were done by week 2. But you could also say his album might not have appealed to many casual idol fans.

So in short, it’s hard to judge.

tinawina Dec 10th, 2008 at 6:40 pm

Clive Davis once gave 200-300K as the range an idol was expected to move from the show alone. But that was a long time ago.

It was actually 500k but as you say, it was a few years ago.

As far as Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m concerned, I can stand it just fine, I simply think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s worth noting. I find it to be an interesting trend. As I said – just an observation, nothing more.

The paragraph you quoted wasn’t directed at you, Jolene, but at those folks who hate this thread, but lurk and even post here anyway.

I would hate for the (non-imposing) cheerleaders to stop posting here as much as I would hate for the overanalyses (which I also love) to stop.

I agree.

One very important aspect which you seem to have overlooked, DCTR is still at 18 to 20 on the itunes digital chart and selling extremely well which shows most fans are buying the album rather than the single. This also shows that it is not the more mature public only buying the album but the younger generation who are digital consumers. Also that LO is now 25 on Top 40 and 11 on HAC with all the Christmas additions and we have seen how TOML remained constant for ages which is more important than a quick rise and fall. I love LO and think it was a marvellous selection. It is being played constantly by the important stations and I think will endure and last.

I am not going to compare the Davids because the other David is not my concern and frankly I do not care.

All I know is that in this economical climate and in 3 weeks to sell 479,000 (LadyMadonna see I am being precise) for a new artist like David Cook is a fantastic achievement and he is not plunging down the charts at all, but rather remaining constant on itunes, Amazon and in the top 10 on the retailers lists.

Am too much of a pragmatic realist to make for a good cheerleader. Besides, it’s winter, too cold for those outfits.

I also believe that what we have been qualifying or defining as a “Hit”, “success”, or “winner” is really ambiguous and open to change given these current conditions. That’s why I think comparisons with other artists are relevant and provide a context or frame of reference. No artist’s success operates in a bubble.

à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¢ Album units, current chart week: 11.3 million units
à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¢ DOWN 7.3% from last issueà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s charts: 12.2 million units
à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¢ DOWN 21.7% from same week, 2007: 14.5 million units

This ^^ underscores that reality.
DC’s sale’s percentage drop compared to The Killers and Kanye is impressive.

So, I’m thankful that both DC’s sales have stabilized, as I know some people remarked last week that that would be what to look for this week. A -21% drop in 3rd week sales, given the debacle that is our retail landscape is absolutely awesome. I view this as good pacing. Stabilization and a steady pace to gold make me very happy, because it indicates slow growth. Let’s hope that Christmas/Holiday gift cards result in more units being sold for both of the Davids.

Just a wake up call on how Idols who don’t sell albums get treated. Kristy Lee Cook was just dropped by her label. They didn’t even wait until after the holidays. Keep moving those units, Davids.

It was actually 500k but as you say, it was a few years ago.

Really? I could sworn it was 200-300K. Oh well, I stand corrected! Thanks.

The Kristy Lee thing puts everything in perspective, doesn’t it? Wow.

Sony/Nashville has confirmed that Kristy Lee Cook has parted ways with Arista/Nashville. Cook joined the label for a second time following her run on the seventh season of “American Idol.”

Cook released one single on the label, “15 Minutes of Shame.” The song peaked at #28 on the Billboard Hot Country Singles chart. Her debut album Why Wait debuted at #8 and has sold less that 100,000 copies according to Soundscan.

–COUNTRY ON-DEMAND

A couple questions I have is why was LO expected to do any better than it has? Songs in DC’s genre don’t shoot to the top of CHR charts, why would his songs be expected to? Why would the next single behave wildly different? DC’s singles are going to exhibit the same type of life cycle, maybe one will hit it bigger and move faster but I’m not expecting any single to all of a sudden hit like the next Rihanna/TI special. The only even somewhat rock song in the top 10 right now is the Jason Mraz song and it came out in March. Even going down to Addicted at 12, that song also was released in March. So what I don’t understand is that DC is supposed to behave atypical of his genre peers just because he was on American Idol? I understand its a very popular show that reaches 30 million people, but 270 million people do not watch the show. If Idol could turn anyone into a hit Taylor would be still at the top of the charts. Both DA and DC have had to pave their way just like any new artist. Sure they get more press and promotion than a typical new artists but they are also both selling very well for new artists. I have a real big problem with those who say winners have to outsell runners up. I don’t think there is any logic to that statement. The public doesn’t care who was on Idol and even if they do both winner and runner up got the same identical minutes on TV, they were in the same number of episodes for the same number of months. The public is well aware of both of them. The winner gets a few more rides on the press circuit but thats supposed to translate to thousands of more record sales 6 months after Idol is over? The Idol ride ends once the confetti falls for the majority of the public, and those are the people who even watched the show. The people who didn’t watch never cared to begin with. So for me there is no steadfast rule that lives on in perpetuity that the Idol winner is held to a myriad of standards for no particular reason just because he was on that show once upon a time.

DC remains at #1 on the HDD Vibe Raters list:

A.I. Winner Top 10 bound at HAC! Adds: KIOI, KKMG, WDKF, WNNF & WZPL. Top 30 at Pop, 175 increase in spins this week. Strong sales continue on debut album! Video impacting now! Press: Blender and RS. CD in stores now. Retail approaching 500K. Mgmt: Simon Fuller and Iain Pirie/19 Ent.

(LadyMadonna see I am being precise)

Burn! Yeah, I totally deserved that. :smile_wp:

And Sasha, I never much liked those drafty little cheerleader bloomers myself. Thanks for bringing those industry-wide trend stats into the discussion, because I do think the entire Idolverse is still adjusting to a huge paradigm shift, and a big-picture perspective is crucial. We’re not living in Clive Davis’s world any longer.

ETA: Wowza to the KLC news. I can’t say I’m terribly surprised, but it also underscores the questionable decision to re-sign her in the first place rather than pick-up and develop some of the IMO more talented/marketable finalists like Brooke, Jason, MJ, Carly, even Chikese. I think I will always be on the knoll regarding KLC’s previous contract with Arista/Nashville and that 4-day miracle of an album. But bummer all around.

Reminder:

When you’re banned, YOU ARE BANNED. Keep signing up with fake ass ip addresses and new names, I’m going to suss you out sooner rather than later, and ban you. Again. And again.

Being a veteran of Idol I really think this seasons winner vs. runner-up and other contestants is really guite mild. I wasn’t on MJ’s during season 5 but I’m sure she remembers it well. I’ve read some of her post about it. Being a Taylor fan I was on a lot of his boards and it was not nice at times. The feuds were mostly with Daughtry fans and McPhee’s. I have been on DC fans boards and also MJ and Carlys. Most are showing lots of hope and respect for all. alto I know they all want sucess for their favorite. Don’t we all? Both Davids are in popular genres and both have good albums, and seem to have record co. support. Worry never help anyone or solved any problems. I’m still not worried about Taylor. He has a new album out 2/10/09 and seems happy and is working. I’ll worry about the Davids in a year or two if they’ve stopped making music. I know I’m probably the one in the room full of sh…t looking for the pony.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll worry about the Davids in a year or two if theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve stopped making music.

And see, this is why I do not worry about them. Unless they lose their voice or something tragic happens I think these are two guys that will keep making music, they were doing it even before Idol, after all.
But hey, if fans keep debating for years and years, it’s a good sing, it means they’re still out there.

Thanks everyone for the numbers.

I think what people on the second page were expressing is the presence of a distinct double standard that runs through this conversation. David Cook for some reason is expected to sell more singles, even though he’s not in a genre that moves tons of singles. But, David Archuleta is not expected to sell more albums because he’s not in a genre that moves tons of albums.

That we should agree with the second statement makes sense. That we should agree with the first statement makes no sense. But, the double standard in the dichotomy between the two makes even less sense.

Six months after they signed major label deals we know two things:

1. Unless the current dynamics fundamentally change, David Cook will sell more albums than David Archuleta.

2. Unless the current dynamics fundamentally change, David Archuleta will sell more singles than David Cook.

Who gives a flying fuck??

Kristy Lee Cook just got dropped from her deal. What’s the percentage of Idols who get signed, who are released not that long thereafter? I’m betting it’s pretty high. Neither David seems to be at risk of that happening. Neither one looks to be in danger of becoming a snicker-worthy joke. Both seem to be in a strong position to be green-lighted to make at least one more major album.

Now I have no doubt that some fans out there will crunch the numbers of album and singles sales together and come up with some formula to try to establish one David (their David, of course) as the “winner”. The rest of us will be waiting for the sophomore CDs to come out.

Noctem, I bow down to you.

A “tip of the hat” to you noctem seizure.

That was a very logical and well thought (and articulated) post. We can always depend on you to cut through the bull.

I’m happy for both Davids with their results so far. :clap_tb:

Sounds about right, noctem. Double standards stink and make people unhappy. The Davids’ performances to date are strong and should lead to the result that will make their fans happy—more music.

Now I have no doubt that some fans out there will crunch the numbers of album and singles sales together and come up with some formula to try to establish one David (their David, of course) as the “winner”. The rest of us will be waiting for the sophomore CDs to come out.

Just NO. And UGH to the continuation of petty fan wars.

This is NOT one sided. BOTH fan bases spin the numbers to make THEIR guy look good. The rationalizations make my head spin.

Could we please just cease and desist with the finger-pointing? And the lecturing?

A couple questions I have is why was LO expected to do any better than it has? Songs in DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s genre donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t shoot to the top of CHR charts, why would his songs be expected to? Why would the next single behave wildly different? DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s singles are going to exhibit the same type of life cycle, maybe one will hit it bigger and move faster but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not expecting any single to all of a sudden hit like the next Rihanna/TI special.

I don’t think that LO was expected to do better than it has. It is doing fine. I think that some of us have the perception that there are other songs that are going to do even better, we might wish they had been the first single, and we might look forward to them being released as singles in the future.

LO is doing well. But I, for instance, think there are other songs on the cd that are going to appeal more, and will shoot to #1 on radio and will propel the cd to greater heights. Also, it’s one of my least favorite songs off the cd. I can’t wait for other songs to get radio play. Just a personal preference.

I’m surprised that nobody’s comparing DC to Daughtry. That to me would be the most logical comparison. They’re both from AI, with all that that means. They’re both doing rock and a similar kind of rock.

I don’t know what Daughtry’s sales numbers were at each step of the past two years. But I know that he’s had a few successful singles that are played a lot still. I hear them everywhere. So I’m curious as to what that meant for his cd sales. My impression is that his cd has been selling steadily for two years now, give or take, and has sold multi-platinum by now. Does anyone remember his initial sales the first few weeks?

I hope to see a similar kind of success and longevity for DCTR. And I’d like him to have several hits off the cd. I don’t see that as dissing his success so far. Just thinking that, as great as he’s doing, he might be doing even greater if there had been a different single. Of course it’s a moot point now, and I’m happy with the success he’s having, which is remarkable. I don’t think that expressing some disappointment with the choice of a first single is in any way discounting his success. I guess it’s a dead horse for some, but I just started posting here and reading here regularly recently, so I never got to talk about it before. So it’s not a dead horse for everyone, but I myself don’t plan to keep talking about it.

Daughtry’s CD was a true phenomenom. Hit the ground running, and sold and sold and sold. I don’t have the numbers here, but I’d hate for him to be the benchmark for much of anyone these days.

My sense is that DC and team are thinking long-term strategy, something that is impossible to evaluate from here, 3 weeks out. But, so far, it makes a lot of sense to me – come out of the gate with a rocker that pulls together decades of that genre with David’s powerful voice. It might have turned off some DC AI fans that liked his lighter cover tunes, but its paving the way for him to strut his true, more eclectic indie rocker self and building out his fanbase, slowly but surely. It’s a new road to pave, unlike any previous AI artist, including Daughtry and Bo. Not all rock is created equal, and David’s sensibilities are unique to him. Not to mention this plummeting economy and quickly changing music biz. Comparisons are bound to fall flat, but I get it, that’s all we’ve got right now to see forward.

At this early point in both David’s post-AI careers, all we really have to go on is a couple weeks and months worth of stats and a whole lot of emotion. So what goes on here is to be expected.

I hate the fan wars, I hate the comparisons and the rationalizing and over analysis by people who think they are experts and know what the future holds for these artists, always crunching the numbers. Of course sales matter but…

An artist, once discovered, survives in this business by exposure and then hitting the concert circuit and performing to packed audiences. That is where the money really starts rolling in.

In this digital age, people find ways to rip off songs for free and/or make copies of CDs for friends and the popularity for that artist hence is not reflected via sales done the official and legal way. There is a huge population of people who won’t buy anything unless they can find a way to get it for free, but they are willing to lay down money for a concert. I am not the most computer literate person in the world but I found ways to record and save stuff on YouTube and add it to my iPod. I did buy the original stuff legally only because I want to stay “legal” — but for the stuff that isn’t offered or available, I did “rip” it.

Thank you, noctem seizure, for interpreting what I was trying to say and for saying it much better than I did or ever could.

:cool2_tb: