Idol Sales News – Week Ending 10/05/08

Go Archie, healthy number… thanks for the info Kirsten…

Please not that the above numbers are the Top 50 song from the download charts plus a few extra songs that have made à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“interestingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  gains in the top 200. Later today, Ken Barnes at Idol Chatter (USA Today) will come out with the full list of Idols in the top 200. We get data as it dribbles out.

Here is some of the airplay chart (this is a differential from last week so the numbers in brackets are gains or losses in millions of audience impressions since last week). Before recurrents are removed:

No. 16 – Jennifer Hudson ( 2.5 million)
No. 36 – Daughtry ( 2.0 million)
No. 46 – David Archuleta ( 1.0 million)

Jennifer is number 2 on the R&B airplay chart.

Because some people were playing the interpolation game, here is how the top 10 stacked up this week:

1. T.I. (featuring Rihanna) “Live Your Life”: 334,520 (NEW)
2. Pink “So What”: 165,310 (-13%)
3. Kevin Rudolf (featuring Lil Wayne) “Let it Rock”: 147,803 (74%)
4. T.I. “Whatever You Like”: 144,262 (-25%)
5. Christine Aguilera “Keeps Gettin’ Better”: 143,895 (NEW)
6. Nickelback “Gotta Be Somebody” : 127,341 (NEW)
7. Kate Perry “Hot N Cold”: 123,188 (2%)
8. David Cook “Light On”: 109,035 (NEW)
9. Taylor Swift “Love Story”: 97,577 (-14%) Total: 113,485
10. Rihanna “Disturbia”: 93,768 (-16)

Rumour is that “Live Your Live” is the highest debut ever on the download chart, so that’s likely what will get the news.

Looks like Archie is well on his way to platinum.

Also, good opening week for DC.

:clap_tb:

Whew!!! I was really worried because of TI, Pink and Christina…was secretly hoping for 100,000, so am not disappointed. The die-hard Cook fans have done their thing…now lets get some radio play and get this single jump started again!

Now RCA…do your stuff for the record! I wanna see some huge ass banners on itunes!

Thanks kristen…I can go back to work now.

BTW, I can believe that about Live your life…even the kids I teach who don’t necessarily like rap flove that song!

Wow at T.I.s numbers! I guess I should listen to his song. LOL

Wow, those numbers are lower across the board than I thought they would be considering all of the new songs out this week. I thought everyone would get a healthy bump from all of the traffic. So much for my prediction skills.

Those numbers show that anything less than actually counting the units is pretty much puffery.

Congrats to all the idols charting. They are really making noise in all formats. Who’da thunk a cheesy ass show could achieve what they have achieved. So go Archie, Cook, Sparks, Pickler, and Hudson, and all those others from Sligh to Gracin, who are hanging tough.

Wow, those numbers are lower across the board than I thought they would be considering all of the new songs out this week.

I wonder if that can be attributed to the sucky economy?

I actually like TI’s song. Wouldn’t buy it but I like it…very catchy…especially with that infamous Romanian pop sampling at the beginning

The numbers, except for TI, are lower, which is why I’m pleased with DC’s opening week.

Crush’s sales are holding strong – outstanding! Can I say I’m surprised at everyone else’s numbers except, TI’s? Much lower than I expected, with what looked like fast and furious activity on the itunes chart …. interesting to see what kinda sales Ms. Spears puts up in her comeback bid…

Anyhoo…. Crush has the right kinda legs going into the album release – Go David! And congrats to all the Idols who are representin’ on the charts – special shout out to JHud – you go girl! You have an Oscar under your belt – shoot for that Grammy girlfriend!

Yikes! @ T.I. I think everyone was on itunes buying LYL… lol

Nice opening numbers for cookie and nice healthy number this week for archie as well.

ehhhh… any info in KLC??? Pretty Please….

OMG, after all my (and everyone’s) handwringing, it broke 100K which I was hoping. Although I was thinking higher, I had a feeling that TI was screwing up the curve for everyone. So I’m glad that Britney kicked him out of the top spot because of that.

Anyway, back to DC. I’m a little calmer now, and I have stormproofed myself from all the oncoming comparative analysis. Anyway, a lot of my newfound zen comes from the fact that David’s history in Idol started out slow and then caught fire — so hopefully, that kind of lightning will strike twice.

So now, RCA, we Cookies have done our job by buying the single. It’s now up to you to NOT derail David’s career.

When does Light On go for radio adds?

When does Light On go for radio adds?

Tuesday, Oct 14 for Pop and Rock

Monday on two formats, Tuesday on two other formats. I think that it is ultimately going for adds on Top 40, AC, HAC, and Rock.

I had rather thought that Xtina, Nickelback, and DC would all have higher sales, but 109K is still a strong start, pre-radio-adds, and there is reason to think that, once he has adds and then starts doing all of the press at the end of the month that Hits Daily Double indicated would be occurring, that we’ll see a couple of bumps leading into the record’s release.

Great job Jordin!!!!! Still going strong

Tuesday, Oct 14

Random: Wednesday is my Bday… Please don ´t banner me MJ ;D

:clap_tb: Yay for all the Idols!!

I thought it would be around 120k but considering the other numbers, I guess those are ok sales.
I said this over at DCO that if the first week is for the committed fans, then I guess there are less of us than I thought.

It will be interesting to see what the impact date will do for DC’s sales. I think not much at first. I think the marketing focus is more toward the album than the single. I think that’s the right strategy for David. With TOML still going strong, HAC and AC will lag in adding the song. Maybe that bodes well for Rock (I sort of doubt it, however, knowing their distaste for all things American Idol).

To put it all into perspective, David Cook has been doing this for 10 years. I’d love to see what the first week sales were for any of his other songs. No wonder he’s thrilled. I’m thrilled for him too.

Last but not least, congratulations to Jordin, Archie and Jennifer. It does make me happy to see all of the idols who are living out their dreams.

GwendolynD- I think everyone was using their money to buy that T.I. song. Those numbers are amazing.

Maybe someone who knows how things work can tell me how this radio adds thing goes. DA’s song Crush was not added for a few weeks (can’t remember how long) after it came out. It feels like we have had to really twist arms to get people to add it, and many people still say their stations won’t play it.

Do more established artists get added much quicker and more easily?

I don’t think the economy has much to do with the sales of something that costs one dollar. LOL. In the context of how everyone else sold last week, Light On did pretty good. Won’t stop the awful headlines though. I’m thinking the fact that it was only promoted on the internet plus the meh reaction from some of the fans deflated his numbers. Still, that’s not bad.

I’m new at this…when people refer to headlines are they referring to internet blogs? Or the real media?

In the context of how everyone else sold last week, Light On did pretty good. Wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t stop the awful headlines though.

I don’t think there will be any awful headlines. The story this week is T.I. He’s kickin’ everyone’s butt in sales this week. :surrender_tb:

My comment about the economy was in reference to the comment that overall, sales numbers were low, even from more established stars like Christina and NB.

I think LO’s start was pretty good, regardless. Ecstatic with that number.

^^I`m guessing that both…

@LK08 if IÂ ´m correct Crush was added like 2 or three weeks later…but Icaould be wrong…

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m new at thisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦when people refer to headlines are they referring to internet blogs? Or the real media?

Both.

Crush wasn’t officially added to radio until 9/2, over a month after the Z100 premiere. However, there were a lot of stations that added the song before the official add date. Some stations–especially on the West Coast still aren’t playing the song quite yet–most notably, KIIS in L.A. In fact, there are only a handful of stations that have Archie’s song on heavy rotation…it’s a sloooow process.

Established artists do get added much more quickly. For example, Pink’s current song was released after Archie’s and it’s already nearly double the spins. I suspect that DC may see a slightly quicker add than DA because he already has a solid radio hit under his belt with TOML, but I still suspect that it will be much harder to get radio airplay than Nickelback will, for instance.

> Do more established artists get added much quicker and more easily?

Generally. Radio stations already know that their listeners like the established artist and would likely be interested in hearing their new song.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think the economy has much to do with the sales of something that costs one dollar. LOL.

Actually, you’re right. It’s generally quite the opposite. Long term studies have shown that people are more likely to buy cheap little entertainment items when the economy is bad. People who are worried about the economy/jobs/mortages/how-they-are-going-to-pay-back-700-billion-dollars are much more likely to cut down on big ticket items like travel, concerts, or whatever. To make up for that, they treat themselves with small entertainment items. Movies saw an upswing in popularity during the depression. IIRC, if you normalize for inflation, that is the most profitable era they ever had. People were willing to pay a nickel to forget their troubles.

So, what accounts for the somewhat dismal numbers this week? If you take out TI, Pink wouldn’t be topping many weekly charts at all. Well, I don’t know. Perhaps people are distracted by the news. There were presidential debates and congressional show downs and market lows and new television shows. Maybe people were just not focused on music this week. I don’t know. Perhaps they were listening to talk radio. Maybe they were all at Miley’s Sweet 16 birthday. Who knows. It was a pretty good week. With so many heavy hitters though, a lot of people expected more.

Aladdin- thanks for the info. I guess once these guys become more known, they will get more of a break. But the question is, how do you get known, if they won’t play your song? I guess that is what your label is supposed to be doing- getting you out there in the public.

In the context of how everyone else sold last week, Light On did pretty good. Wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t stop the awful headlines though. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m thinking the fact that it was only promoted on the internet plus the meh reaction from some of the fans deflated his numbers.

Some perspective. The only reason LO’s numbers are being met with less than total enthusiasm is because of Crush’s first week results. Cook fans are fearing Clay/ Ruben redux. In any other context, 109, 000 units moved would be viewed 100% positively.

Of course, now (for some of us) begins the process of rationalizing the results. There are factors that are worth noting. Crush had two weeks of radio play between its debut and when it dropped, whereas LO had one. Crush had seven times the radio impression numbers when it became available. Pop sells more singles than rock. And so on.

Still at some point, excuses are just that. When the albums drop, it’s possible this will be Clay/ Ruben redux.

I confidently believe the majority of the Cook fans who are seemingly obsessed over the “comparison” really could care less about the comparison in and of itself. We only worry about the comparison insofar as it may affect Cook’s career individually.

As long as Cook can sustain his own (big league) music career, most of us could give a damn if Archie ends up having a better one. The jury is still out, however, on whether Cook will be able to sustain such a career over the long haul.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m new at thisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦when people refer to headlines are they referring to internet blogs? Or the real media?

Both.

Thanks. Was just curious because I can’t imagine the real media being all that interested as of yet in DC or DA…except for EW. Rollingstone has been really cool and positive re DC. I’d be interested in what Blender has to say.

As for all of the various Blogs (and forums), well they are really biased depending on who they like. And many of the “journalists” I’ve read are such poor writers, it’s hard to take them seriously sometimes.

One of the reasons I like MJ’s BlOG so much is because she publishes everything about AI and is impartial and balanced.

But the question is, how do you get known, if they wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t play your song?

That’s the $1M question. New artists are really at the mercy of station program directors and it seems like they are lemmings when it comes to what the other guy is doing. I suspect that’s why Jive went the Z100 premiere route with Archie as it’s a leader station. Because “Crush” has done extremely well in NYC, other smaller stations have followed suit. That’s probably why “Crush” still has been heard very little in Southern California. The smaller stations are waiting on KIIS, which so far, has only given it a handful of test spins.

More and more it’s evident to me that the label can only do so much with lesser known artists. Ultimately, unlike the bigger, more established names, newer artists’ success lies squarely with the quality of the song choices. One could argue that because the Davids had the exposure of AI, they have a one-up on the competing new artists. However, besides the initial first week sales surge, I don’t think that’s the case–especially in terms of airplay.

yeah, but these established artists were new at one point too. I think it takes time, good PR and people actually liking your music for an artist to ge radio play. There are enough DC fans spread out over the country, requesting LO for it to pick up momentum.

I trust and believe.

Some perspective. The only reason LOà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s numbers are being met with less than total enthusiasm is because of Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s first week results. Cook fans are fearing Clay/ Ruben redux. In any other context, 109, 000 units moved would be viewed 100% positively.

Yes and no, IMO. I have no idea what a reasonable expectation is in his case, and it only has a little to do with Crush. He’s a VERY popular winner and his debut was highly anticipated. Plus, TOML actually has done very well. Light On had 1 million spins on Popeater, and a highly trafficked post on EW. So, despite what Crush did or didn’t do, I think the expectations would have been high anyway. I’m guessing what he did sell was fine, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find out the label expected more. In fact, most of the artists that debuted last week has higher expectations.

Still at some point, excuses are just that. When the albums drop, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s possible this will be Clay/ Ruben redux.

I’d be happy with that actually. Rueben sold 2.5 million records, didn’t he? LOL.

I’m fully expecting the media the perception that he’s an also ran to Archie. Say Light On finally impacts and starts charting, but it’s behind Crush on the charts and stays there. That would make sense since Crush has been out longer, but the writeups won’t necessarily say that. Until the albums debut that will be the story, I think. Not that the label cares as long as he’s selling well, but it will drive fans crazy and spark all kinds of nasty internet fanwarring.

yeah, but these established artists were new at one point too. I think it takes time, good PR and people actually liking your music for an artist to ge radio play. There are enough DC fans spread out over the country, requesting LO for it to pick up momentum.

Maybe. The roadblock always ends up being the station program directors. DA fans have run into this problem with “Crush” in a few markets. If the program manager doesn’t like the song (or the artist), it really makes little difference whether fans request the song until they are blue in the face. Still, it never hurts to request it anyway…better to at least make your interest in the song known than to leave the impression that no one cares.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m guessing what he did sell was fine, but I wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t be surprised to find out the label expected more.

I’d be very surprised if RCA was disappointed with 109K.

I honestly think if the label wanted him to sell more, they would have marketed him differently. I think their focus is on the album.

Aladdin, I agree about the radio stations. TOML wasn’t played on the leading AC station in Chicago until it became #1. They picked it up then. Meh, they don’t get my business.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d be very surprised if RCA was disappointed with 109K.

No I didn’t say disappointed, I just mean their projections might have been higher. The general expectation was that everyone last week would have sold more. I don’t think the label is mad at that figure at all. Again, in the context of what was actually sold last week, Light On did very, very well.

Why is that T.I. guy famous anyway? I honest expect cooks sell higher than 109,000. I think L.O. is a great song…i think it is way better than T.I. guy. Btw, KIISfm in LA has not yet played “crush” for some reason.

Some people have said that when Crush started to chart, etc. it would get played on their stations, but it still hasn’t happened in many places. You are right that all you can do is request and hope for the best. DA has in many cases changed people’s mind about him. They had negative opinons of him largely due to the ridicuous TMZ press about his dad and negative things said during AI, but he has been so gracious in his loss and is so sweet and gracious in interviews that he has changed many minds. We hope over time and especially when his album comes out that he will continue to get good press. My favorite interview of all was with Michael Slezak (EW?) who had been so nasty about David. The look on Slezak’s face when he interviewed DA was priceless. David had no hard feelings and was so cute.

As far as comparisons, I am a diehard Archie, but every time I see a comparison article, I try to refute it. The media wants us to fight and there are some people posing as Archies or Cookies who try to stir things up as well. I think the best thing both fanbases can do is to not pick up the bait.

Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a VERY popular winner

Well, his first week sales are about 3 times what Jordin’s were with her lead off single, so I guess that’s true. I just think people don’t care that much about the Idol winner in October compared to the days and weeks after the finale when they’re all over TV, or even compared to two months ago when the Idols were on tour.

If the label expected more, well they probably could have picked a better first single. Light On has actually grown on me and I like it a lot, but it took multiple listens. Casual fans who were only exposed to a 30 second snippet on iTunes might have passed on it. That could change if/when radio starts playing it. It would be pretty sad if his first single doesn’t do better than his coronation song.

What a refreshing thread of comments! I tiptoed in, fearing. . .you know. Instead, there’s nothing but graciousness and sanity. Happy sigh.

I’m surprised at all those numbers except for T.I.’s, but seen in context, I’m really happy about Dave’s. Now I have to be patient for the long haul.

And congrats to Archie for continuing to do so well!

Maybe. The roadblock always ends up being the station program directors. DA fans have run into this problem with à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  in a few markets. If the program manager doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like the song (or the artist), it really makes little difference whether fans request the song until they are blue in the face. Still, it never hurts to request it anywayà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦better to at least make your interest in the song known than to leave the impression that no one cares.

I think it’s a little more complicated as to whether a program director “likes” a song. I’m sure there are many songs played that PD’s don’t like. I on’t think it’s that simplistic. Radio programs want to please their listeners too.

khomphuong- Some people say that maybe JIVE is part of the not playing in California yet. They say that they are saving that big market until closer to the album to keep Crush growing until the album comes out. I don’t know what to think.

Layla-You would think PD would want to please their listeners, but many people have requested Crush many, many times in some places with the song even winning top honors in contests, etc. and the station just won’t add it.

One more thing- I noticed that T.I. song has explicit lyrics. It is really sad to me that people today like songs like that. JMO

edit: I just saw on itunes that you can buy a clean version of the T.I. song. Does anyone know if the explicit and clean lyrics version together added up to the numbers listed?

Yes, reasonable discussion FTW.

The entire structure of RCA’s marketing seems to be geared toward sales of the record, less than sales of the single. Short intro before the sales date for LO, release of the “Making of Light On” video about a week later, featuring (among others) Rob Cavallo, radio adds date next week, video and press stuff gearing up at the end of the month, leading up to the release of the record on 11/18.

So, I’ve decided to feel good about 109,000 in sales and have optimism that the marketing strategy will work. Sure, I’d have loved it if LO’s first week sales had been as strong as ToML’s first week sales, but all in all, I see good things coming up.

Yeah LK im not really into songs with explicit lyrics.. a few songs ive heard might have one or two words.. but nothing I normally listen too.

The entire structure of RCAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s marketing seems to be geared toward sales of the record, less than sales of the single. Short intro before the sales date for LO, release of the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Making of Light Onà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  video about a week later, featuring (among others) Rob Cavallo, radio adds date next week, video and press stuff gearing up at the end of the month, leading up to the release of the record on 11/18.

I just wish I could have a conference with Rob Cavallo so that he could explain to me what’s going on. :laugh_tb:

I’m more than confident that they have a handle on this. I’m just a blind follower. I eat the bait they offer and impatiently wait for my next bite.

Whatever the goal is, it’s working for this hardcore fan.

Layla-You would think PD would want to please their listeners, but many people have requested Crush many, many times in some places with the song even winning top honors in contests, etc. and the station just wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t add it.

It’s a gradual process, and a lot of PDs look at outside factors in determining what they play–whether a song is high enough on the Hot 100 Airplay, whether the song has a good callout score, etc. Crush didn’t have those until last week (it had no callout score until last week). It has them now and, not surprisingly, it just started playing in San Diego, Washington DC and Seattle, and got twice the spins on big Daddy Z100 and its lessor cohort, WBLI this week as last week. Sometimes it’s not about requests, or about what the PD personally likes, but about the numbers. Certain stations just like to be sure that what they put in rotation is a song they can pretty much guarantee their listeners will like.

BTW, congrats to all the Idols! They’re doing extremely well!

If the label expected more, well they probably could have picked a better first single. Light On has actually grown on me and I like it a lot, but it took multiple listens.

It does take a little while to embrace, but I think it’s completely in line with what DC said to expect of his record. Many people heard LO at first and asked where the “twists and turns” were. Are you kidding me? The twists and turns are all over the first single.

I will NOT back off what I said (in the other thread) about LO being leagues ahead of other Idols’ debut singles and most other Idols’ songs period from an artistic perspective. How many other songs on the radio today sound like modern rock fused with callbacks to seventies classic rock and eighties arena rock– with some nineties grunge guitar thrown in for good measure?

The first half of the song is standard post-grunge, albeit with a few subtle differences. But, then you get to the “monster rock” bridge, transition to the drop off to the piano only first-half chorus (something I haven’t really heard on the RADIO since the seventies or eighties), and then immediately transition to the loudest wailing chorus yet on the back half of the chorus.

Combining the standard fare of the first half of the song with the back-half transitions, and the effect created is like of one of those classic rock songs from the days when songs used to be much longer and would take you on a “musical journey”, so to speak. But what LO manages to do is to pull this off while being compressed within the time frame of a pop single.

As I said before, the credit for this really goes to Chris Cornell, not David Cook. But, it seems to me the selection of LO as the first single is consistent with the premium Cook has always placed on artistic integrity.

Now is this the best approach from a commercial/ career standpoint? Probably not. The safest play would be to release a bunch of Daughtryesque songs and be viewed as having negligible credibility while accruing massive sales. But, we can’t say DC isn’t being true to himself.

Ok, another thing I just noticed in itunes is that there are 3 of the top 5 songs with explicit lyrics and all three of those songs have clean versions. I am happy that they at least make a clean version. I wish they would do that with movies too. It would make “them” more money.

Well damn Noctem…that analysis had me on the edge of my seat. You broke it DOWN! Thanks.

I believe that clean and explicit versions are combined for soundscan/RIAA purposes.

I think LO 109K downloads is a good number for the opening week, and certainly nothing to sneeze at. If it’s true that RCA’s strategy is more about album sales than single sales, then I’m happy to wait and see what the rest of Cookie’s album is like.

Personally, I don’t feel the ‘twists and turns’ in LO, and think it’s a very middle of the road song for someone with David’s ability, at least in comparison to what he did on AH and Axium. I’m going to indulge myself and believe that David let RCA release this radio friendly rock anthem as a first single so that he could have his way with the rest of the album. I’d rather think that than rationalize LO into more than what it is on the outside chance that there’ll be much more of the same on the rest of the album.

Oooo, noctem, that was nice! Also, I agree. I think Rolling Stone’s review was working around the edges of the same kind of analysis with their “Red Bull” and “passion,” etc. Passion has been missing for me from modern music, and one of the big reasons I love DC so much has to do with the passion he makes *me* feel, which I haven’t felt from music since the. . .oh, 70′s or 80′s. Passion is fun. I do so love “monster rock” and “wailing.” To each his or her own, and that’s my own. Thanks for your analysis.

Those numbers are very good for the Idols. Congratulations!

The Davids are 2 very different artists as people have pointed out. Rock is not singles driven as pop ones are so 109000 is very good news to me. (I think trying to market LO as pop is a mistake and confusing. Cook says he’s putting out a rock album and I think the marketing should reflect what it is). I like LO, but it’s a tougher sell on mainstream radio.

But Jordin sold 33k so Cook is doing great compared to her. Congrats to Archie, especially considering the west coast resistance to playing him. I want to know what Kristy’s numbers were. Did Artista screw her or what?? Why did they even sign her?

I’m curious to find out TOML’s sales numbers. Hope somebody would be glad to enlighten.

Also, it has been said countless times that pop singles usually sell more than rock or even pop/rock singles. If so, is it reasonable to assume that it is more difficult for a new rock artist to establish himself/herself, versus a new pop artist? Because were this the case, I think DC did extremely well with those opening week sales numbers for his first major label pop/rock single. Way to go DC!!!

I love Light On. I am happy to have to rationalize nothing…mileage of course.

Hi, just received notice from Amazon that the release date for DC’s album has now been pushed back to the 24th. Anyone else get this message also?

Hi, just received notice from Amazon that the release date for DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album has now been pushed back to the 24th. Anyone else get this message also?

hmmm.. The 24th is on a Monday though.

My email from Amazon says that the release date for DC’s album has been pushed back and the estimated delivery date to me will be 11/21. Different dates. WTF?

LOL. The site still says 11/18. I’m going with that.

Amazon just finally clued in that the album is being released on 11/18, not 11/14 as they previously indicated on their site. Depending on which shipping method you chose, you might get it between 11/21 and 11/24. The amazon page for the album now says 11/18.

edit: Let’s keep headlines in the headlines thread…thank you. the topic of this post is sales news.

Does anyone think it would be better for Cook to move his release back? I heard that Nickleback has now moved their album to the 18th.

Everyone is getting all different estimated release dates in their e-mails. Up until last night Amazon still said 11/14, it now says 11/18 so I think cheese is right.

Does anything think it would be better for Cook to move his release back? I heard that Nickleback has now moved their album to the 18th.

Nickelback has had this date for a while now. I don’t think a change would make much difference because there’s heavy competition every single week in November. If anything going up against NB might help him. I don’t care if he’s #1.

What the hell is with the sales this week? Not just David but wow. I thought this was going to be a huge week with lots of debuts selling a lot higher than they did. Christina was like #2 and #3 for so many days.

Sorry MJ :redface_wp:

My email said 11/21!!!! What’s up?

There are a shitload of albums being released in November…is this the norm?

I was surprised by Christina’s 140K–I thought she would sell more than that. Not that 140K is a bad number, but she’s Christina freakin’ Aguilera. And her song has been doing well on the radio (although it’s slowing down lately). P!nk also took a bigger tumble than I expected. Did everybody just buy T.I.?

There are a shitload of albums being released in Novemberà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦is this the norm?

Yes, the 4th quarter is always full of releases to take advantage of Holiday sales. Kirsten probably has the percentages, but it’s pretty staggering the amount of sales that occur in the 4th quarter vs. the rest of the year.

Congratulations to Jennifer Hudson!

Billboard

With 217,000 copies, Jennifer Hudson’s self-titled Arista/RMG debut lands at No. 2 on The Billboard 200. Hudson came into the national spotlight in 2004 during the third season of “American Idol,” coming in sixth; she was later cast as Effie in the film version of musical “Dreamgirls,” earning her an Oscar for best supporting actress. First single “Spotlight” has peaked at No. 3 thus far on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs tally.

Go J-Hud go!

Thanks MJ.

I’m so used to just buying what I like when I like it…this is the first time for me to be so “invested” in the music industry.

I was surprised by Christinaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s 140Kà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’I thought she would sell more than that. Not that 140K is a bad number, but sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Christina freakinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ Aguilera. And her song has been doing well on the radio (although ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s slowing down lately). P!nk also took a bigger tumble than I expected. Did everybody just buy T.I.?

Well, it’s possible that all the traffic driven to ITunes by TI did not translate into sales for everyone else. TI is rap, and not many of the other songs advertised may have appealed to that audience.

With 217,000 copies, Jennifer Hudsonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s self-titled Arista/RMG debut lands at No. 2 on The Billboard 200. Hudson came into the national spotlight in 2004 during the third season of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“American Idol,à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  coming in sixth; she was later cast as Effie in the film version of musical à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Dreamgirls,à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  earning her an Oscar for best supporting actress. First single à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Spotlightà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  has peaked at No. 3 thus far on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs tally.

:clap_tb:

I almost forgot about Kellie….

She debuted at #9 with 43,000 copies….

Christina Aguilera isn’t the music selling superstar she used to be. And it looks like TI’s fans were just into his music. I don’t want to beat a dead horse but I think LO was a safe, commercial choice not a cutting edge rock breakthrough. If anything, they went too safe when you see something like Let It Rock move up the Top 40 charts. Not a great opening week for Kellie. Maybe the blond domination of country is ebbing abit.

the TI song probably had TI fans and Rhianna fans buying it. lol

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to beat a dead horse but I think LO was a safe, commercial choice not a cutting edge rock breakthrough.

It’s not a breakthrough in the sense that songs like it have never been written before. They have. But, I stand by my assessment that I have not heard a song like it on the RADIO in at least two decades. And certainly not by the artists whose material it is being lumped in with. But, if you don’t hear the throwback influences that I’m hearing, then we will just have to disagree.

As for it being “safe”, if the second half of the song followed the standard progression that you would expect it to from hearing the first half, it would have been much safer yet. And I expect that that would make the song a bit more commercially successful than it ultimately will be.

Not a great opening week for Kellie. Maybe the blond domination of country is ebbing abit.

Interesting she debuted at #9–same as “Small Town Girl” in 2006. But STG sold 79,000…

There’s some kind of rule that the 2nd Idol album sells 50% of the first but it’s also the erosion in sales in general. Still with all the promo Kellie gets, I expected a better first week. She only sold 30K more or so than Kristie Lee Cook. :blink_tb: I agree that LO def has an 80s sound to it.

Now is this the best approach from a commercial/ career standpoint? Probably not. The safest play would be to release a bunch of Daughtryesque songs and be viewed as having negligible credibility while accruing massive sales. But, we canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t say DC isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t being true to himself.

I was with you until this statement. I think this was a very smart commercial/career move. Following in Daughtry’s footsteps, is no way to blaze a career. This gets back to that discussion of which is better – a slow burn method or the explosion mode. And the decision to go for the slow burn, I think, is the right one for David Cook. The trick is for an AI winner to have a sustainable career in rock. This is treading new ground and I think they’re making all the right decisions here.

Alot of people’s initial concerns were that RCA would try to make David Cook into some kind of bubble gum pop star if he won AI. That is not happening. It is clear that he is staying true to himself and his rock roots, but doing it with commercial appeal. I think that is a winning combination.

I was with you until this statement. I think this was a very smart commercial/career move. Following in Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s footsteps, is no way to blaze a career. This gets back to that discussion of which is better – a slow burn method or the explosion mode. And the decision to go for the slow burn, I think, is the right one for David Cook. The trick is for an AI winner to have a sustainable career in rock. This is treading new ground and I think theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re making all the right decisions here.

I’ve seen the term “slow burn” used a lot lately, but I’m not sure how RCA is purposefully adopting a “slow burn” strategy. They marketed the heck out of “Light On” last week (for a new artist, that was some nice promotion), and they’re marketing the heck out of the album now (as we can see by the banner ads popping up all over). Yes, “Light On” debuted on the Internet and not on the radio, but I don’t think that one decision means that RCA has decided to go slow and steady with the single. They tried their best to get the highest number possible (and “Light On” did very well). And they’re trying very hard to get it played on the radio (it’s making some inroads there). The album is a little over a month away, so “slow” is not how RCA should be taking it, and I don’t think they are.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m curious to find out TOMLà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sales numbers. Hope somebody would be glad to enlighten.

From Ken Barnes’ Idol Chatter:

The Time of My Life sold 236,000 in its first week; this week, probably aided by the availability of the new single, it climbs 88-71, selling 18,000 (up 20%), for a total of 933,000.

Here’s why it looks like a slow burn to me. They start with posting the lyrics. Then they make the single available for listening on AOL where they break records. Then they release the song to a few radio stations and release the single for sale on iTunes. Then they add an ad on the iTunes front page and ads on various sites including Clear Station stations. Next up, distribution of a behind the scenes making of ‘Light On’. Now, there’s a gradual increase of radio play in preparation for the official add dates next week. After that, we’ll be seeing an increasingly dominating marketing presence which will feature David going out promoting the single and the album on TV and radio stations across the country. Then, at the end of the month, they’ll be debuting the video. All this, building up to the album’s release on Nov. 18.

So, yes, I do think the label understands the pop/rock market and what works and how to maximize David’s success in this market. And I think they’re doing a good job of managing David’s career, so far.

The trick is for an AI winner to have a sustainable career in rock. This is treading new ground and I think theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re making all the right decisions here.

You are completely right. This is treading ENTIRELY new ground. As a the first AI rock winner, Cook’s challenges are monumentally compounded compared to what Chris had to face, and that was daunting enough.

Trying to use AI to launch a rock career is by far the most difficult path an Idol contestant can take. God bless David Archuleta, but nobody is asking questions about whether an Idol will have “credibility” as a pop star. Perhaps there were some who questioned whether Archie himself could be a pop star because of the songs he chose for himself on the show, but there is no debate about whether an Idol in general will be accepted in the pop world.

Getting back to Daughtry, I agree that Cook is following a different path, but I’m not sure it’s the smartest one. Don’t get me wrong, I’m proud of DC for trying to maintain authenticity, but I wouldn’t bet on his approach over Daughtry’s. I’ll use the example of Bon Jovi. They were critically scorned for years for being the most substanceless hair band this side of Poison, but their monstrous success eventually transformed the derision into grudging acceptance and respect. I could see critical response to Daughtry evolving in the same way.

One of the articles that slammed DC raised the observation this week about how appealing to females is everything for artists coming off Idol (that’s also the case for them while they’re on the show). I think Daughtry, at least with their singles, has played to female fans (they do have some other songs on the album that are a little more geared to guys). But, Cook, with his first single, it seems is making a targeted effort to attract the male demo. Whether he “makes it” or not, then, may come down to the answer of two questions:

1. Will male rock fans respond to his music– and, more importantly, to HIM?

2. Will his pre-existing female fans stick by him as he pursues this musical direction?

Will that damn rainbow die already? :laugh_tb:

I’m not sure if it’s a slow burn, I’m not even sure if RCA is happy with the numbers. In the context of the how underwhelming everyone but TI did I think his numbers are ok. But considering he sold 236,000 the first week of TOML it seems to be quite a step down and that’s with taking into consideration there’s always extreme hype immediately after the finale. Airplay seems to be moving extremely slow and I don’t know if that’s normal or what. Right now I don’t know how I feel about RCA’s marketing but I may feel differently if I see they really are invested.

Getting back to Daughtry, I agree that Cook is following a different path, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not sure ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the smartest one. Donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get me wrong, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m proud of DC for trying to maintain authenticity, but I wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t bet on his approach over Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s.

Right. That’s sort of what I was trying to say in a round about way. My attitude is what’s wrong with going the Daughtry route? Trying a new approach could prove to be risky.

Will that damn rainbow die already?

When it hits 1,000,000, I’m going to cry. I do not know if those will be happy tears.

Hereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s why it looks like a slow burn to me. They start with posting the lyrics. Then they make the single available for listening on AOL where they break records. Then they release the song to a few radio stations and release the single for sale on iTunes. Then they add an ad on the iTunes front page and ads on various sites including Clear Station stations. Next up, distribution of a behind the scenes making of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹Light Onà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢. Now, thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a gradual increase of radio play in preparation for the official add dates next week. After that, weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll be seeing an increasingly dominating marketing presence which will feature David going out promoting the single and the album on TV and radio stations across the country. Then, at the end of the month, theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll be debuting the video. All this, building up to the albumà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s release on Nov. 18.

I guess I don’t see that as “slow burn.” That’s a natural progression that most songs take. It’s not as if all those events were spread far apart. They released the song for sale shortly after it debuted on AOL because they didn’t have time to waste. Releasing a song for sale gives it an added visibility that LO needed, as the album isn’t too far off. The video comes a certain number of weeks after simply because it takes time to film and edit.

I’m sure RCA released LO to as many radio stations as they possibly could. I don’t think they’re holding back airplay because there isn’t time to take things slowly in that department. They want stations to pick it up now; the add date is merely a marker that says, “ok, this is its ‘official’ release.” But early airplay is common and expected for higher profile singles. Radio airplay is one of the best advertisements for a song and an album. Granted, an album can sell well without it if there’s enough built-up demand for it, but I don’t think RCA is going to hang its hat on that possibility. And it takes time to get a song up the charts–months for new artists.

The rest of the promotion can’t come any sooner because Cook will be promoting the album, not the single. The same thing is happening with Archie–he’s waiting because he’ll be promoting his album, not his single. It’s a waste of time and money to do big promotion for one song when you can wait a few weeks and promote big for a whole album.

I just don’t see anything slow about what RCA is doing. Indeed, I see them trying to pick up the pace. Certainly they are moving faster on this single than they did with Daughtry’s first. They adopted strategies this time around that were inconsistent with how they did things for their previous American Idol artists. They promoted LO more. To me this means they do want to make some sort of impact in the beginning. And I think they’re doing just fine. They’re just not going slowly.

I just donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see anything slow about what RCA is doing.

When I say “slow burn”, I don’t mean slow, like they’re dragging their feet. I mean that there is an approach that keeps the hardcore fans wanting more and ever anticipating the next tidbit. All the while, he is being gradually ushered onto the present music scene without giving everyone who may not know that much about him the sense that he’s being shoved down their throats at the American Idol winner, like he’s entitled or something.

It gives me the impression (and hopefully, others too) that he’s working his way up as a genuine artist (which he is). That may go along way in gaining him some credibility.

That’s why I initially called it a “slow burn” process.

I think David Cook is a completely different guy than Chris Daughtry. We know that the songs he has penned are more probing and insightful. Those qualities of openness, and you could say, angst, are part of what makes him so attractive to women. It’s not just his looks, its how he projects himself. And I think those same qualities are ones that guys like as well, especially when they are expressed in the harder edge of rock songs.

As long as David continues to fully inhabit his music with his intelligence and almost mesmerizing qualities, I think he’ll be widely successful. If RCA tries to make him into something he’s not, like another version of Daughtry or Nickelback, it won’t work because it’s taking away what’s unique about David Cook and forcing him into a mold that doesn’t fit him.

I think they are steering clear of these kind of mistakes, and instead allowing David’s spirit to clearly shine through even as obvious a commercial song as ‘Light On’. The song will get David more male fans and, at the same time, bring in a host of new women fans. I think it was an incredibly smart release. The cover photo does the same thing. David blends strong masculinity with an approachable soft center – an irresistible combo IMO.

…and that’s why I too have called it the “slowburn” And I like it.

As someone just said…pop is the genre expected out of AI…an AI winner who is a rocker is untested waters.

I’ve said it and I’ll say it again…I trust RCA. I trust Cavallo. I especially trust DC.

Soundscene, I’m not exactly sure what all is meant by “slow burn”, and I don’t have a good guess on RCA’s overall strategy for the single, but I do agree with you that they did a fair share with the internet ads. The iTunes ones, in particular, definitely helped with first week sales of LO. I’m not sure about the others– the Amazon ones here and on Facebook are really talking about the album, not the single. But in any case, it makes sense that they promoted LO more than Daughtry’s first single, because a) DC won, and b) RCA probably wasn’t as sure about Daughtry’s single prospects, and has learned a lot since then– with the success of Daughtry’s single releases, which not only helped market his record, but sold well on their own, they probably decided that this new schedule they’re employing with DC makes sense. And look, it worked! Much higher debut numbers than Daughtry’s first single. I bet they’ll do something similar with the first single off Daughtry’s new album and release it over a month before, rather than wait until right before the record release.

ETA: I took so long typing up my comment that others have jumped in to explain what they meant by slow burn, haha.

I hadn’t even considered the possibility–probability–that DC’s development could help/effect Chris D’s. That makes sense. So in the long run, DC will have benefited from Chris forging the first path, as it were, but Chris might then benefit from whatever they learn from watching what happens with DC. There’s a nice symmetry to that, if that’s what happens.

Ken Barnes seems to indicate that last week on iTunes has been more an album sales week

Idol sales: The full report

the theory goes that all albums benefit by increased store and online traffic.

so maybe that the main reason, most single sales are lower than expected

As for T.I. – I ask a friend, who is more in that kind of music to check it out and tell me if it is any good. 3 hours later she is in a shop to buy it, so there has to something with this music, if you go for that kind

Well, TI isn’t really what I listen to, but I like it and understand why it’s so popular. Plus he and Rhianna really rocked it when they debuted it on the MTV VMA show. It really is big…as well as the album.

Anyway…yeps…the record is what the wait is all about.

Sorry I’m posting again so soon, but the radio-friendliness of LO has been brought up here, and it’s interesting. (I think/hope it’s on topic, since as soundscene brought up that, “à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Light Onà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  debuted on the Internet and not on the radio”, and I think radioplay has a great effect on sales.)

Exhibit A, we have those who think LO is radio-friendly/mainstream, and (largely) believe RCA is trying to Daughtry-fy Cook. Here are just some examples from this page of comments, but over the past few weeks, I’ve heard a lot more like them:

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m going to indulge myself and believe that David let RCA release this radio friendly rock anthem as a first single so that he could have his way with the rest of the album.

so obvious a commercial song as à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹Light Onà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢.

Exhibit B, we have those who feel LO is not mainstream or radio friendly (yes, I quoted Noctem twice, but he’s just so quotable!):

How many other songs on the radio today sound like modern rock fused with callbacks to seventies classic rock and eighties arena rockà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ with some nineties grunge guitar thrown in for good measure?

I like LO, but ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a tougher sell on mainstream radio.

I stand by my assessment that I have not heard a song like it on the RADIO in at least two decades.

I happen to agree with those in Exhibit B, and I gotta be honest, that worries me a bit. I’ve read anecdotal evidence that radio stations have responded to LO requests by saying they’re not playing it cuz they haven’t figured out where to fit it on their playlist, etc. Granted, they might just be saying that, and it’s all about the numbers (chart position, callout numbers, etc.), but I feel like there may be an element of truth in that. I was one of those that required a few listens before loving LO, and I personally think it’s because I listen to too much Top40. YMMV, but LO simply doesn’t fit Top40 to me. In terms of “rock”, the new Nickelback single, all their old singles, and all of Daughtry’s singles fit well, but LO just doesn’t, IMO, and if that’s their big push, come impact date, I don’t know how things will turn out for LO. I almost wish RCA chose a single with fewer twists/turns, that would be more palatable for mainstream radio, because Top40 is what sells, especially for new artists, and if LO isn’t getting Top40 radioplay, that could be bad news for the record. Basically, what Noctem said: “Getting back to Daughtry, I agree that Cook is following a different path, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not sure ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the smartest one. ”

Wow, this is an uncharacteristically pessimistic post for me! I realize it’s way too soon to guess LO’s radio prospects, and I need to have patience… haha, I have a feeling I will be “enjoying” some hand-wringing and overanalyzing of the mediabase numbers here on MJ’s for quite a while.

But in any case, it makes sense that they promoted LO more than Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s first single, because a) DC won, and b) RCA probably wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t as sure about Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s single prospects, and has learned a lot since then

Releasing/promoting a single in advance of an album release is pretty standard procedure… and isn’t predicated on placement on a reality show. In Daughtry’s case it was just a matter of timing — the release date for the album was non-negotiable and the single selection was still being debated. The single was released to rock radio only two weeks before the album dropped and to other formats two weeks after (mid December when radio formats go into holiday mode). The video didn’t come out for an additional 2 months. The guys spent a long time doing radio promos, in-studio performances and every inane radio interview that came their way. Not exactly a blueprint for success…. and yet it worked.

If their second album is handled any differently it will be because there’s more time up front, not because RCA has learned anything “new”.

From Idol Chatter:

Bucky sold 1,800, up from 1,500, for a total of 370,000.

Go Bucky!

The rest of the promotion canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t come any sooner because Cook will be promoting the album, not the single. The same thing is happening with Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s waiting because heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll be promoting his album, not his single. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a waste of time and money to do big promotion for one song when you can wait a few weeks and promote big for a whole album.

When the Davids make their promotional rounds in the coming weeks, they’re going to be promoting both their albums and their singles. The two are connected.

Considering that ‘Magic Rainbows’ has been on the charts since May is going to go platinum, I think David Cook may have the ability to reach people beyond genre.
Carrie and Jordin couldn’t achieve that goal with their coronation songs yet went on to sell records and singles.
After LO goes for adds and DC starts the promotional tour, then we’ll know whether or not he has ‘legs’ (so to speak).

When the Davids make their promotional rounds in the coming weeks, theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re going to be promoting both their albums and their singles. The two are connected.

Of course they are, but they’re waiting so they can primarily promote their albums release.

Billboard Hot 100:

– 17 DAVID COOK LIGHT ON
20 25 DAVID ARCHULETA CRUSH
36 29 HUDSON*JENNIFER SPOTLIGHT-REMIXES
43 41 CARRIE UNDERWOOD JUST A DREAM
54 56 DAUGHTRY WHAT ABOUT NOW – STILL BULLETED
– 93 BUCKY COVINGTON I’LL WALK

Bubbling Under
– 3 KELLIE PICKLER DON’T YOU KNOW YOU’RE BEAUTIFUL

R&B 100
3 2 HUDSON*JENNIFER SPOTLIGHT-REMIXES

Dang it! I come back here and there’s already 102 comments.

Congragulations to DC :clap_tb:
A very good first week sales for LO! WOW at T.I.’s numbers.
The idols seem to be dominating the charts. Good for them. Do you guys think Crush will reach platnum by the time the album comes out in November? Kind of hoping to see another Archie spaz moment…lol if that even made sense.

I think Crush will just miss going platinum by November 11. I think it’ll go platinum a couple weeks later. It would need an average of about 72K per week go go platinum by the time the album drops.

I agree with Soundscene. A slow burn is not the way you want to go. And I don’t think that RCA has that in mind for David Cook. They are working hard to get him higher on the chart. They aren’t known for their promotions, so I don’t buy that they are going the slow route. The slow and steady approach was used for a few other idols I like and that sure didn’t get them anywhere but out of their contract.
Also, Daughtry’s “It’s Not Over” debuted when the album debuted, not beforehand.

I wonder how well some of the past season contestants like Taylor and Clay would’ve done had itunes been available then.

Whether or not they chose slow burn or they tried to work it harder, I’m keeping the faith that RCA knew what it was doing with whatever strategy they chose for Cook. Here was a huge moneymaker and if their weirdness leading up to LO caused a not-so-stellar opening (and potentially, for the album), it’s my contention is that they broke Cookie.

Not like they’re going to admit to culpability, if ever but you know…

I don’t know that I would call it a “slow burn,” which seems to imply that the goal was low numbers this week, higher numbers in a few weeks. What I would say is that the strategy seems to be aimed more at increasing the buzz as the date approaches the record. Relatively short notice of the single coming out. Compare that to TI and Xtina—their singles debuted on the VMAs, which was a while ago. Some time on AOL Popeater, but not a huge amount of time before the release. No press appearances—video release on myspace and some press releases, but otherwise, what you mostly had were some promotional materials—ads on itunes, some emails, an add that was on mediabase, but that was about it. There definitely was some activity by RCA to try to alert folks to the single/promote it, but the strategy did not seem likely to maximize the chances of a huge week of sales.

That said, if the goal was less to have a monster week of sales for LO but instead to kind of have him start to build up some post-tour, it all makes sense. Put out some info on the single. Make the single available and start promoting it to fans and radio. Put out press releases and a “making of” video that highlight DC as a real artist, working with people with great credentials. Get good sales the first week. Hit the radio adds date and hope that the song takes off. Then issue the video and do a bunch of press. All with the hope that buzz will be building and will create a lot of interest by the time of the record release.

an add that was on mediabase,

That ad is one piece of the puzzle I don’t get. Usually, it seems that labels put those ads on Mediabase when they are actively pushing a single. Although we like to poke around Mediabase, that login page is intended for people with real accounts. People in the industry. Why put up the ad and not push the single? For what gain? They’ve already sent out the promo packages (as seen by various bits showing up on eBay). Why would you advertise your song to the radio industry, but not want them to play it? Why not save that money for when you will push it? I can’t figure out the strategy. Oh well, I guess that’s why I don’t get paid the big bucks.

I wonder how well some of the past season contestants like Taylor and Clay wouldà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve done had itunes been available then.

If there had been single downloads and not just physical single CD sales in 2003 I think Clay would have far surpassed the million plus that it did sell at $4.99 each vs the 99 cents today. In those days you had to actually go find it in the stores vs having it just a click away online. Another thing to think of is that they only pressed a finite number of those CDs and once they were sold there were no more, as opposed to downloads which are limitless.

Kristen I thought the same thing about the ad! If they were going to spend the money on that promoting the song going for adds, wouldn’t it make more sense to wait until the impact date? I remember with TOML a Mediabase ad appeared the week it officially went to radio and it said “impacting now”. Then when it started really taking off at radio they did two different adds two weeks in a row. I know one was when it hit Top 10 AC. Those seemed like logical time periods. Also, what do you think is the logic having it up for streaming on all these Clear Channel station sites? Z100 had it up for several days and this week it was on their listener survey, but now it went up over the weekend on WLTW which is the no. 1 AC station and also CC. Does that mean they’re just testing it? WLTW currently plays the crap out of magic rainbow.

Jordin was #21 on the Hot 100.

Billboard Hot 100:

à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ 17 DAVID COOK LIGHT ON
21 21 JORDIN SPARKS ONE STEP AT A TIME
20 25 DAVID ARCHULETA CRUSH
36 29 HUDSON*JENNIFER SPOTLIGHT-REMIXES
43 41 CARRIE UNDERWOOD JUST A DREAM
54 56 DAUGHTRY WHAT ABOUT NOW – STILL BULLETED
à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ 93 BUCKY COVINGTON Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢LL WALK

Bubbling Under
à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ 3 KELLIE PICKLER DONà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢T YOU KNOW YOUà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢RE BEAUTIFUL

R&B 100
3 2 HUDSON*JENNIFER SPOTLIGHT-REMIXES

That ad is one piece of the puzzle I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get. Usually, it seems that labels put those ads on Mediabase when they are actively pushing a single.

I didn’t mention it before, but the first thing I thought when I saw DC’s Mediabase ad was “Oh no! Taylor had one of those ads for his first single. It must be poison!” OK, J/Arista probably blew their entire Taylor radio budget on that ad alone, but still, I didn’t think it was a big deal when I saw David’s ad. Hopefully there will be more to come if/when it gains more play.

As for it being “safe”, if the second half of the song followed the standard progression that you would expect it to from hearing the first half, it would have been much safer yet.

Huh? It does follow the expected progression. It’s just a standard song form: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo/bridge, choruses and out. And yes, the softer chorus section is a standard device too — see the Nickelback songs I mentioned in a previous thread.

Releasing/promoting a single in advance of an album release is pretty standard procedureà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ and isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t predicated on placement on a reality show. …Not exactly a blueprint for successà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦. and yet it worked. … If their second album is handled any differently it will be because thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s more time up front, not because RCA has learned anything à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“newà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

Carson, I wasn’t really trying to make the point that they are releasing/promoting DC’s single in advance of his record because he placed higher than Daughtry on Idol. If you read the context of my post, you’ll see that I was writing in response to soundscene’s earlier comment that RCA was not using the slow burn strategy:

Certainly they are moving faster on this single than they did with Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s first. They adopted strategies this time around that were inconsistent with how they did things for their previous American Idol artists. They promoted LO more.

I was merely saying that perhaps they are employing a different strategy with DC because the one they used with CD wasn’t the best and they learned from it. And yes, CD prevailed despite it. You are also saying that CD’s strategy wasn’t a blueprint for success, and that if they had more time, RCA should definitely want to release a single in advance of the record, either for DC or CD. So just take away my choice of word in “learn”, and aren’t we saying similar things? My other statement about the placement on Idol affecting how/how much RCA wants to promote a single is just my opinion– it makes sense to me that RCA, especially after CD proved how lucrative an AI “rocker” could be, would make maximum effort to use a good strategy to promote the single/record of the guy that was so popular he won the whole show. YMMV.

Oh this must be new. I went to the Z100 site and now there’s a banner for LO at the bottom of their page. Not the rotating banner like last week but this is right at the bottom of the page by itself. Is this a CC thing RCA is paying for? Just yesterday I saw the same thing for Nickeback.

JohnM – I read what you had to say in the previous thread and found it a very interesting read. I wonder if you would mind breaking down David Archuleta’s “Crush” in the same manner…..song form, progressions, etc., etc., regarding a pop song.

If there had been single downloads and not just physical single CD sales in 2003 I think Clay would have far surpassed the million plus that it did sell at $4.99 each vs the 99 cents today. In those days you had to actually go find it in the stores vs having it just a click away online. Another thing to think of is that they only pressed a finite number of those CDs and once they were sold there were no more, as opposed to downloads which are limitless.

Counter-point: Clay’s trophy song also included “Bridge Over Troubled Water”. How many copies of a physical single would David Cook have moved if his own original arrangement of “Always Be My Baby” was on it?

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve read anecdotal evidence that radio stations have responded to LO requests by saying theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re not playing it cuz they havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t figured out where to fit it on their playlist, etc.

I also have a feeling that may be a problem. What confounds me is that the only format that is significantly picking up LO so far is Top 40. But, look at the Top 40 chart. There are only two artists who are even in DC’s supposed genre on it– Nickelback and Daughtry. But, Nickelback’s song has been compared to a Hannah Montana and Daughtry’s representative song is the very balladish “What About Now”. Oh yes, and David Cook himself still charts on Top 40 with his very un-LO like TOML.

Next looking at AC, I noticed he actually lost two spins in only his second week. Granted, the decrease was only from ten to eight, so they could pick up again later, maybe once the Rainbow fades. But, I do wonder if LO is too rock for that format. It is definitely a harder song than any song currently charting there.

HAC should be a very natural fit, but even here I only three songs on the chart that are comparable in terms of their “rockness” are Staind, Puddle of Mudd, and Seether. Anway, pick up on HAC has so far been slow.

Beyond that, we’re left to see how LO does on rock, alternative, and AAA when it impacts. Even if it does well, I’m not sure how much success airplay will do for the single’s success individually, although it could certainly boost the album eventually

But, to sum up the conundrum that sma11ie is getting at, Cook may find himself in danger of landing in a weird no man’s land where fans, critics, and the rock world will deem him “too Daughtry/ Nickelback” where as pop music and multigenre stations will deem him “not-Daughtry/ Nickelback-enough”. But, we shall see how it all plays out

This has been a very interesting thread indeed with many, many comments.
1) I find it interesting that this song really does appeal to a variety of listeners. Um, LO is what I’m referring to. Noctern pointed out the various “sounds” in his post.
2) the economy has affected my buying of LO. I have two non-DC fans who absolutely love this song. Neither have ipods let alone MP3 players, otherwise I would have “gifted” this song to them (which they would have readily accepted).
3) I believe expections (my own included) of DC are high.
4) I honestly don’t believe DC is going to lose many female fans. I hope he only gains male fans.
5) I believe DC is going to be just fine. I have never followed up on AI before, never watched an entire season, never bought songs from an AI. I am doing all of these this year because of DC. I have seen other posts saying the same thing.
6) I didn’t love TOML (expect on finale night) or LO initially. I’m loving LO now. This guy has an amazing way of selling a song. It’s more than just his voice (which is amazing), but it’s who he has shown himself to be as a person.
7) Really, over 109,000 is a great number (esp. w/no radio debut, since we’re in a transition with how music is sold today).

I guess my bottom line here is: we have not seen or heard the last of David Cook!!

Jordin was #21 on the Hot 100.

Woops! My bad! I can’t believe I forgot Jordin.

Soundscene- You seem to always have a handle on the charts and radio adds, etc. I would love to have you or someone tell us the progression of promotion for Crush. I know it debuted on Z100, and that market started playing it right away, but it felt like there was very little other promotion and fans had to request like crazy to get anyone to play it for weeks before the official add date. I don’t remember seeing other adds. I would love to have someone who is good at this tell us how the Crush promotion worked.

But, look at the Top 40 chart. There are only two artists who are even in DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s supposed genre on ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ Nickelback and Daughtry. But, Nickelbackà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song has been compared to a Hannah Montana and Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s representative song is the very balladish à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“What About Nowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . Oh yes, and David Cook himself still charts on Top 40 with his very un-LO like TOML.

Seether and Hinder are charting on Top 40 while also charting on rock.

David’s LO came in 4th for new digital releases behind TI, Christina A, and NB. Not a bad week for a guy who was working as a bartender and scrounging for gigs in Tulsa less than a year ago. From the little I know of David Cook, American Idol, then the tour, his previous work before AI, I believe that great music will continue to come from this artist. For me his new record is coming and I am anxious to hear it. It has been a good week for DC and there are more to come.

Soundscene- You seem to always have a handle on the charts and radio adds, etc. I would love to have you or someone tell us the progression of promotion for Crush. I know it debuted on Z100, and that market started playing it right away, but it felt like there was very little other promotion and fans had to request like crazy to get anyone to play it for weeks before the official add date. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t remember seeing other adds. I would love to have someone who is good at this tell us how the Crush promotion worked.

Well, I’m gonna have to go by memory on this, so somebody can correct me if I get the timeline wrong, but I believe it was something like this:

Premiered August 1 on Z100 in NYC and added to WBLI in Long Island and a couple of Salt Lake City radio stations. Those were really the only stations playing Crush any significant amount when it debuted on iTunes on August 19. And when I say “significant” amount, I mean light-medium rotation, not heavy rotation.

When it went on sale on August 19, the promotion was as follows: banner ad on the Music page, listed in the “New Releases” on the main page and there was some sort of smaller promotion on the Pop page (but I can’t recall what it was). That’s basically it. There wasn’t any type of outside promotion for the single’s sale other than the radio airplay it was getting at the time. It wasn’t near the Hot 100 Airplay at the time, hence the high “debut” at #2.

The radio impact date was September 2. By that time Crush was in the Top 30 on Pop. The only promotion it had was a few scattered radio interviews David did.

The video was released to iTunes a couple weeks later and got a lot more promotion overall than the single’s release did. This included banner ads on the main page and the music page, plus a spot on the “What We’re Listening To” scroll on the main page (first video shown). There was a story about the making of the video on Entertainment Tonight. The promotion for the video propelled sales of the single to a 75% increase from the week before.

About that time, Crush was used in promos for the new season of ABC Family’s “Lincoln Heights.” These commercials stayed on the air for about 2 weeks. That, plus Crush’s appearance on national countdowns like American Top 40 and Rick Dees Weekly Top 40, moved Crush up the iTunes chart even before the video ads went up. Crush moved from #24 (its lowest position) to #11 before the video came out. When the video and its ads went up, Crush moved back into the top 10 and up to #7. It’s stayed firmly entrenched in the teens since that time.

David recently began doing a few more radio interviews, walked the purple carpet at Miley’s party and Jive released a press release about his management deal and his appearance on iCarly. All these count as promotion, although they aren’t considered massive–just enough to keep his name in the news. The biggest thing David has done since releasing Crush will be an appearance on Open House Party this Sunday. It’s a syndicated radio program that goes out to over 20 radio stations nationally, and airs between 7pm and 12am EST. Crush has been the #1 most requested song on OHP for 2 weeks.

And that’s the promotion/progression so far. No TV, except for the Entertainment Tonight piece and a couple of snippets on entertainment programs showing him at Miley’s party. Not a whole lot of internet ads, but multiple news stories about David instead (which yes, Jive and/or his new management are partially responsible for).

I think that about sums it up Lisa. Looks about right. THere wasnt much in between things. Somewhere in there was the radio disney premiere, but thats probably in the scattered interviews section lol

I think that it’s going to be hard to judge how Ligiht On will do with AC until the Magic Rainbow starts to fade. Hell, it picked up spins after LO was introduced. Not saying that it feels like the most AC song ever, but it’s a little hard to judge. HAC has also been interesting, in that the slide that was pretty steady for ToML mostly stopped. In the meantime, the loss of spins on Top 40 has continued, while more spins are cropping up for Light On with Top 40.

Thanks Soundscene- That sounds about right. It really did feel like there was very little promotion. The fans just requested like crazy. Slowly it has been added. He is going to have some very stiff competition the week his album comes out.

P.S. He and Cook did that Ford thing in Michigan right after tour where he sang Crush, but no one knew about it except for the fans.

Oh yeah LK, the ford day.. that was pretty limited in viewers..

^^I guess the fact that Crush debuted at #2 helped a lot with making noise, and that made that lots of people wanted to talk and interview Archie… maybe Larry King Live helped a little, but I don ´t see any teens watching that program… let me see… his vlogs and blogs sometimes make it to the magazines and other blogs so he has keep making noise on his own…

4) I honestly donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t believe DC is going to lose many female fans. I hope he only gains male fans.

If you’re talking the die-hard female fans that are on his site and fanboards, no, he won’t lose them anytime soon, but TOML didn’t get to 933K solely by the support of the die-hards. I know a lot of girls who love TOML, enjoyed DC on Idol when he did the “softer” stuff, but won’t buy his album if it’s full of LO’s. They’re casual fans, but fans nonetheless. That’s just reality, and frankly it has to happen because DC cannot possibly please all his diverse Idol fans, and if he is to have any longevity or “cred”, he must define his style now even though it means leaving some fans behind. Fortunately a) we don’t know that the record will be full of LO’s and b) even if the record doesn’t appeal to that particular category of casual female fans, DC’s post-Idol success simply requires that he gains many more new fans with any that he loses, and I truly think that can happen. Provided, you know, that LO/his record doesn’t, as Noctem so succinctly (and scarily) put:

[land] in a weird no manà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s land where fans, critics, and the rock world will deem him à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“too Daughtry/ Nickelbackà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  where as pop music and multigenre stations will deem him à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“not-Daughtry/ Nickelback-enoughà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

I’m crossing fingers and toes, and have high hopes that DC, Cavallo, and all his wonderful collaborators know way more than we do, and are way too smart to let that happen.

New here. Interesting discussion.

[quote]When it went on sale on August 19, the promotion was as follows:[/quote]
Didn’t it go on sale August 12?

Seether and Hinder are charting on Top 40 while also charting on rock.

Are you looking at a new chart? Because I don’t see either one of those two on the Top 40 list that Lady M linked to on DCO.

yeah 12th.. lol I missed that too. But sometimes you get the dates messed up lol lol

noctem:

43 43 SEETHER Rise Above This
54 46 HINDER Without You
49 49 LINKIN PARK Leave Out All The Re… (not bulleted)

Didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t it go on sale August 12?

Yeah, you’re right, it did. heh. My memory isn’t what it used to be.

noctem:

43 43 SEETHER Rise Above This
54 46 HINDER Without You
49 49 LINKIN PARK Leave Out All The Reà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ (not bulleted)

Ok, that explains it. The chart list I’m loooking at only shows #1 – 40.

I’m surprised that the Hinder song isn’t doing better (at least not yet). Yeah the band got kind of a bad rap. But, still the new song is worlds better than their execrable “Lips Of An Angel”.

(How random of a song theme was that? Not “Wings of an Angel”. Or “Eyes of An Angel”. “Or Arms of An Angel” Or even “Voice of An Angel”….

Nope they went with “Lips of an Angel”. In that case, why not “Elbows of An Angel”? Or maybe “Nostrils of An Angel”? Perhaps even “Glands of An Angel”…?)

I think that ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s going to be hard to judge how Ligiht On will do with AC until the Magic Rainbow starts to fade

How do we know it’s going to fade anytime soon though there? It’s #1 on AC..again. That thing is like the energizer bunny. If it was at least dropping a couple of spots at a time I would think maybe it would go way but I figure as long as it remains #1 AC stations will just keep playing it.

DA got some coverage at the Teen Choice Awards, and also seems to be in a lot of teen magazines where they obsess on their favs.

Hi Everybody!

I just want to thank all of you for today’s lively, interesting, intelligent and SANE discussion around the release of the first week numbers for “Light On”.

I have the best readers ever, and my comments section RAWKS hard. Again, THANK YOU.

And a big Thank You to Kirsten who puts together all the awesome numbers.

If youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re talking the die-hard female fans that are on his site and fanboards, no, he wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t lose them anytime soon,

No, I’m not talking about the hardcore contingent. I’m talking about the women who watched DC each week on Idol, morally supported him and rooted for him, possibly even voted for him a bit (my sister cast her first votes– fifteen of them– for an Idol ever on finale night). But, since the finale this is the set that is probably only conscious of DC in a pop-culture context– hey ET just said Cook is dating that chick from the TV Guide channel!– or because they couldn’t possibly have avoided TOML (and for all they know, that may be what they are expecting his album to sound like).

But, what we can surmise from the bits and pieces we’ve heard about his album, it’s going to be harder yet than LO. I’m gonna get knollish here and say that Andrew Cook’s “review” of LO came across as very pre-scripted to me, at least in parts. Knowing that his comments would be instantly circulated around the Davidsphere, his purpose seemed to be communicate to the fanbase the point that LO should be viewed as a “bridge” or a “transition” between TOML and the music that David intends to put out.

We also have comments from Neil that indicate that he is very pleased that David’s record is rock not pop. And have you gone to Neil’s myspace and listened to the music he has up there?

These and other pieces of information tell me that David is not going after what I’ll call the “Daughtry-demo” (I came up with that term after watching Daughtry’s Soundstage performance and noticing that EVERY SINGLE SEAT in the two front rows was filled by a woman in between her mid-twenties and early-thirties).

Again, will he be able to pull this off? I don’t know. There are some music critics and fans who will reflexively call him a Daughtry-wannabe, no matter what lengths he goes to in order to be “UnDaughtry”. And, even though I’m repeating myself here, there will be some other fans who wish his sound was as accessible as that of a Daughtry-type.

I missed this comment earlier today and wanted to respond before this thread dies:

Personally, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t feel the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹twists and turnsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ in LO, and think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a very middle of the road song for someone with Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s ability, at least in comparison to what he did on AH and Axium.

I’m not going to rehash my arguments for why LO has an uncommonly sophisticated song structure for a contemporary radio single. But, I do want to address the notion of alleged “twists and turns” in Analog and Axium.

I love several songs on Analog Heart, but the album, in general, is comprised of very simplistic musical compositions. Considering David did the bulk of the guitar work himself, that’s not surprising, as he’s not the most accomplished player.

The chord progreessions and structure in Axium are indeed more complicated, primarily because David’s former bandmates are better musicians than he is. Still, keep in mind, that David has an imperative to sell records– lots of them, and Axium’s sound was the antithesis of what you would call having widespread commercial viability. They sounded like a million other other post-fraternity dive bar bands out there. Talented? Yes. But going nowhere.

I should add, that if you are saying that AH and Axium are LYRICALLY superior to LO then I wholeheartedly agree. But, I didn’t get the impression that’s what you were referring to.

And a big Thank You to Kirsten who puts together all the awesome numbers.

Yes! Thank you Kirsten! And thank you MJ!!

I missed this one from earlier today too:

Huh? It does follow the expected progression. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s just a standard song form: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo/bridge, choruses and out. And yes, the softer chorus section is a standard device too à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  see the Nickelback songs I mentioned in a previous thread.

Respectfully, I disagree. After hearing the first two verses and the chorus twice, most songs today then would either go to an instrumental and/ or a “softer part” followed by a resumption of the chorus. Or possibly in place of that, an abbreviated bridge. If you’re reading this thinking, “You’re exactly describing the way “Light On” is”, then read on.

Yes, soft choruses preceding loud ones after the verses are a “standard device”. Anyone who listens to any popular music at all knows this.

But, I defy you to show me a popular modern song that switches from the kind of bombastic bridge that LO has down to a piano-only accompanied chorus and immediately back to the song’s loudest wailing chorus of all.

The contrasts are jarring, and one of the reasons I didn’t take to the song right away was because I couldn’t get a handle on it at first. The song felt like it jerked you around. I was like “Well, I love the chorus and the piano part, and the verses are all right, but I hate the bridge.” Eventually, though, it completely grew on me as a singular entity, and I realized what an impressive song it was when seen holistically.

Thank you, Soundscene, for that great synopsis of Archie’s promotional timeline.

I think it also bears mentioning the fact that the Crush video made it to top 3 on VH1′s top 20 countdown this week, and top 15 last week when it debuted on their countdown. Jive probably had no hand in getting it there (other than producing it so well), so it’s not really an active promotion on their part per se, but that did get Archie’s name, face, and song several times on television the past couple of weeks. And to add to those appearances, his video has been shown, off and on, almost on a daily basis on VH1′s two other shows “Fresh New Music” and “Jump Start”. That’s really good TV publicity, imo. Perhaps Jive pays VH1 to get Crush those spots on those shows, I don’t really know.

Then there are those internet countdowns, such as AOL’s top 11 music video countdown. Crush has been doing very well there. I think the highest it’s gotten so far is top 2. On Musiqtone, the video reached top 1 just this week. There are probably others that I don’t know about.

And, of course, all those teen magazines that JudyOhio mentioned. There are quite a few. Those are nothing to sneeze at either.

All in all quite a lot of buzz going on for DA, imo. I’m very impressed with Jive so far.

I just want to close with a shout out to MJ for doing such a wonderful job with this site. Thank you so much for all you do for us Idol junkies!

Well, 109k isn’t exactly what the fans were hoping for, although in any other year, as was mentioned upthread, those would be considered great opening numbers for this single. But, in this year, it makes him a flop. I suppose it would have been better if he had abandoned everything he stands for musically and tried very hard to be a teenager. Ah well. There are no fears of a Clay/Ruben redux for me; it is already done. Archie has succeeded and Cookie has failed.
It certainly doesn’t mean I can’t be a fan of DC.
Count me among those who find everything that RCA has done (or not) thus far as just all kinds of odd. I would certainly hope that they aren’t going for a “risky” route with DC (possibly at the expense of his career) just to see how far they can safely “push the envelope” with Daughtry. But, at the very least, their so-called “strategy” is questionable.

JohnM – I read what you had to say in the previous thread and found it a very interesting read. I wonder if you would mind breaking down David Archuletaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  in the same mannerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦..song form, progressions, etc., etc., regarding a pop song.

Judy, I’m not John, but here’s my take for what it’s worth. Crush follows the modern pop song format to a tee. It starts with the verse and then proceeds to a “lead-in section” to the chorus (that’s another minor difference LO has from many rock/ pop rock songs– many of them also have such a lead-in part to their choruses whereas LO just abruptly launches right from verse to chorus).

After the first chorus, David does vary things from the first verse a bit on the second verse, but that has become the custom R&B/ pop blueprint these days. Anyway, after the second chorus, he sings a mini-bridge and then goes right back into the final chorus and then finally repeats select lines from the chorus until the song fades out.

In conclusion, the song is pure bubblegum. And it’s designed to be mass-consumed to like candy.

What’s interesting is that the same basic song structure can also be plugged into a song from the pop-rock genre to produce a similar hit. And here’s where John and I disagree about LO. If LO followed the structure and format I refer to here, then what would happen is after the second chorus, Cook would sing a softer part (probably not accompanied only by piano, though– that’s not very common anymore) and then finish out the song with his final chorus.

Oh, maybe there would be a guitar solo and/ or a shortened bridge too. But, it is the combination and juxtaposition of all of its elements that create the complexity that I’m seeing in the song, which John is not seeing.

One concluding point– I am neither extolling Cook for the sophistication of his song nor denigrating Archie for the simplicity of his. Because neither wrote their singles. Both did their jobs admirably which was to take what they were given and sing it extremely well.

In conclusion, the song is pure bubblegum. And ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s designed to be mass-consumed to like candy.

Crush follows the standard verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus format (as do 95% of pop songs), but it’s not bubblegum. If you listen to Radio Disney, you’ll hear bubblegum, and when Crush plays on that station, it’s very easy to tell the difference. Mainstream top 40 radio hasn’t played bubblegum in a long, long time (the recent Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus singles aren’t bubblegum either–they just happen to be Disney products).

I actually don’t think people would be tossing around the term “bubblegum” if the singer wasn’t 17.

One concluding pointà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ I am neither extolling Cook for the sophistication of his song nor denigrating Archie for the simplicity of his. Because neither wrote their songs. Both did their jobs admirably which was to take what they were given and sing it well.

I disagree with this as well–I see no more sophistication in the structure of Light On. I agree with John. But that’s not a bad thing, in my opinion. Complicated song structure can make for a radio-unfriendly song (not always, but a lot of the time). Light On is more radio friendly for its familiarity. I’m not a huge Cook fan, so I haven’t broken down his song piece by piece. By I am a radio listener, and I guarantee that listeners will not be so exacting in their analysis of the song. They’re going to hear verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-chorus-chorus (yes, I counted the choruses), and they will feel comforted that it follows that structure because it’s what they expect to hear.

Noctem, I certainly appreciate your analysis of DC’s work, I do. My point is that I simply don’t respond to LO the way I do to much of DC’s earlier music, which is why I said I don’t “feel” those twists and turns. It’s about the emotional chord that music strikes (apologies for the lame pun). It’s about feeling the music…I don’t want to have to intellectualize it, analyze it or break it down in order to appreciate it. It’s not about lyrics or arrangements or whatever as disparate elements…to me it’s a gestalt kind of thing. Maybe others do that with their music but I don’t. Perhaps it’s unsophisticated to say I don’t know why I like one song and not another but its my time and my dollar, and lucky me, I don’t need to justify it.

I don’t feel bad for thinking that LO isn’t DC’s best stuff. Yeah, it’s a business and I want the man to succeed and be around for as long possible too. But I’m also not going to make any excuses if what he puts out for his first single isn’t my thing. I think it’s an average song. I think he can do better. Other fans love LO, which is great as it keeps his numbers up. Did I buy the single? Yes, absolutely. Do I listen to the song now? No. It would be silly to force myself to listen to something I don’t enjoy. I’ve listened to it at least a dozen times in different contexts…and nada.

So in the meantime, I’ll keep spinning AH and Axium on my iPod and wait for the album to drop.

Good Lord…what a wealth of opinions and YMMV’s! makes for good reading.

I love reading how songs are broken down (you who do it…well I think it’s awesome) but I also realize that your average listener doesn’t do that….hardcore music fans yes…most-no. I am one of those who buys music that really touches me emotionally…(for that reason have fallen in love with Rachael Yamagata…she’s fuckin’ AWESOME!) Being in this AI bubble is very emotional and it seems we are all still rooting for our faves…which of course makes it hard to remain neutral…even when we think we are being just that.

The talk of failure and flop, two weeks after a song is released always rings of bias IMO…how could it be otherwise…perfectly logical considering the AI competiveness among fans that AI spawns. I know that the kind of music I love and listen to, will rarely be played in the top 40 formats….but they are talented musicians/songwriters with big followings. So YMMV when it comes to considering what is a flop or not. With the emotion we AI followers put into our faves makes us want others to see in them what we see in them, hence we want them to sell well and be popular…hma nature and all that.

I think the major difference between DA and DC is one of expectations. The AI machine is there to produce pop artists…DA easily fits into that mould. He’s cute and sweet, nice enough voice and is so easy to manufacture and make him teen fave of the month. No one really expects more from him. He really is traditional AI.

While on the other hand DC is so many different things to so many different people…..there are those who want him to do Axium, or AH, or the songs he did on the show or TOML or LO….but he can’t be all things to all people.

I would rather see him at the top of rock or indie/alt music charts, than top of the pop charts inviting the tired boring comparisons with previous idol winners, DA or Daughtry….and I venture to guess, based on what he himself has said, that this is what he would prefer too. I’d rather see him Foo fighter than Nickelback.

If he stays true to himself and does his own music and progresses, he may well lose AI fans along the way, but he will also pick up fans who are into HIS music.

His record will let us know the direction in which he is heading. I have never been so anxious to hear an artist’s finished product as I am to hear this record, which I hope will be called “Optimistic to a Fault” it just seems to fit DC and where he is now at this point in his musical career.

Interesting discussion.

If you categorise Archie’s song as bubblegum based on its structure, then I guess 95% of mainstream songs today are bubblegum.

As for LO, I happen to like it. There were lots of songs like LO in the 80s and 90s, so nothing new there. If you haven’t heard any song like LO these days, it’s because, it’s out of date. Doesn’t mean it’s bad. I like those rock ballads of the 80s and 90s but that’s not what will sell today, but maybe DC can bring it back, pop rock artists who can actually sing well.

109k is nothing to sneeze at. That’s 3 times Tattoo’s first sales, so congrats DC! but I was expecting at least 120k since he has 120k friends on myspace. I guess RCA messed up. Obviously RCA hasn’t done this kind of single promotion before. I’m sure they are focusing on the album promotion as well, but I think they were also doingstuff promoting the single, but didn’t do a goodjob on it. Like someone said, Daughtry will benefit from this. Everyone put out a single before the album nowadays, so at least RCA would be smarter with Daughtry next time. and I wonder why the hurry to release on itunes? Especially with the kind of song LO is, should have let airplay build up for 2 weeks prior to itunes release. oh well, they kno best, and anyway, DC didn’t do badly at all! LO is a good song in my book I listen to it and just let the song do its job, emotion etc. Unless you are majoring in music, it doesn’t really matter how the song is made, and even if it matters, different people feel different on how the best song should be structured etc, and besides usually, you are suppose to lose yourself in the song, which can be any song really. Sorry for the long post and my rotten english lol.

Jwright, I respect your opinion. And as you seem to be, I am an EXTREMELY critical fan. Trust me when I say if I thought LO sucked, I would say so.

I do fear that if you’re waiting for Analog Heart II or even the Cook of “Optimistic To A Fault/ Better Never Than Late” (let alone Axium redux), you’re going to be waiting a long time. I think those incarnations of David Cook are gone and are not coming back, except maybe for when he comes back out to do encores at his live shows (it does make me sad that we have no audio/ video of the AH songs being performed live, plugged-in, and backed by a live band).

The thought crossed my mind after LO debuted and was met with mixed reviews by Cook Nation that his fanbase was going to “shift” more than the average Idol. As somebody mentioned upthread, I do think that a lot of his fans are going to be left behind as he charts his new course musically. Hopefully, though, they will be replaced by hordes of non-AI-following converts.

I will say that I also hope that the whole record doesn’t sound like LO. I do dig the homage it pays to classic and stadium rock, but I don’t want to hear a whole CD of it. But, I can honestly say that I now have no idea what the rest of the record will sound like it (prior to LO, I did have a conception in mind). When I originally heard about the collaboration with CC, I though that if you crossed Chris Cornell with David Cook, you’d get something like Pearl Jam (only hopefully without faux-Vedder vocals). But, I was dead wrong on that count.

Hate to be a dunce here, but I just read that LO is number 17, after one week on Billboard’s hot 100 chart….quite pleased with that.

I do think that a lot of his fans are going to be left behind as he charts his new course musically. Hopefully, though, they will be replaced by hordes of non-AI-following converts.

This is what I am hoping will happen.

but I was expecting at least 120k since he has 120k friends on myspace.

Here’s a dirty little secret about both Davids’ myspace friends list, and I expect it is true of most music artists. Neither one has the number of friends that they represent themselves as having.

VFTW first pointed this out on Cook’s myspace this summer– if you go to his very last page, and then the one before it, and the one before it, and the one before it, etc.– the pages are identical. Same exact friends listed in the same order. One of the worsters actually counted how many umpteen dozen pages were identical.

Cook’s myspace page is now set so you can’t view all of his friends. But, out of curiosity, I went to Archie’s back page and then started paging forward. And you guessed it– the same thing.

I suppose it’s possible that the guys do have the number of friends that they advertise, and the pages only start to repeat after their last friend. But, I doubt it.

I’ve heard that music artists use other tricks to inflate their friend count too, like using “random friend-finders”. It allows them to project the impression of extreme popularity, which in turn would then enhance their “actual” popularity.

Honestly speaking, whoever is marketing Light On should be given a knock on their heads. The sales is VERY disappointing.

Light On also only managed to debut at #17 on the Billboard Hot 100 singles, which again is VERY disappointing.

I am seriously thinking TPTB are not that pro-cookie as I thought.

Layla- you said, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“I think the major difference between DA and DC is one of expectations. The AI machine is there to produce pop artistsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦DA easily fits into that mold. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s cute and sweet, nice enough voice and is so easy to manufacture and make him teen fave of the month. No one really expects more from him. He really is traditional AI.”

IMO DA is so much more than you say. The more you get to know him, the more you realize he is a fascinating and multi-layered person who has so many dimensions to him and his music. Because of his more mature musical tastes and how the AI machine works, there were people who thought he could not do mainstream pop. He had to and wanted to start with a younger sound to get new younger fans and get noticed in the mainstream.

His fans feel that his music is special, but he is SO much more than his music. There is a story on http://www.Fansofdavid.com today about Eva Cassidy (a deceased musician whose music David loves) that is just one of a million Stories from a fan who has been touched by David. That may help people to begin to understand him.

E- I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ If you havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t heard any song like LO these days, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s because, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s out of date.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  That might be what is bothering so many people and what I think is the main reason sales are “disapointing” to some. I think it has little to do with his promotion and more to do with the song. Cook has a tough job- trying to not be compared to Nickelback or Daughtry, but trying to carve out his own niche, especially given that his first hit was TOML (probably very different from where he will end up).

AI is over. I am a huge DA fan, but I wish for the best for Cook and I am tired of the comparisons between he and DA. Cook has a lot more to worry about in his own genre. Patience is in order, but I wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t count Cook out.

Scratches head. I still don’t understand what RCA will learn from Cook’s marketing that will help Daughtry. In the past two years, the focus on singles has gotten bigger. That has nothing to do with Cook or Daughtry. Daughtry won’t need a heck of alot of promo either for the seond album. Even though he’ll be lucky to sell half of what his first album did.

As an Idol winner, Cook’s really in the clutches of TPTB for good or ill. It’s very hard to know how much control he will have on what music gets on his album. But hopefully, it’ll be stuff more interesting than LO. Archie’s r&b vocals keep Crush from being pure bubble gum.

In conclusion, the song is pure bubblegum. And ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s designed to be mass-consumed to like candy.

I would have to agree with this. Pure saccharine, I believe. But, I think that’s what it’s supposed to be. For me, the only thing that sells that song is David Archuleta’s voice. He managed to make it sound younger, catchier, and fresh. But, it’s standard fare for me.

I never will purchase the single, but I’ve heard it enough to know that him singing it was a very good move. Now if another of today’s pop artists sang it – I mean, take your pick – would it have the same effect? I don’t think so.

I think “Light On” and “Crush” are sold by the artists who sing them.

About MySpace friends list, noctem seizure, I think it is more likely to be some kind of error of the way it is listed or a fault in the system rather than any kind of shenanigans by anyone concerned. This kind of things happens all the time in many websites – for example, if you read the comments on videos in YouTube, you’d find that many pages of them are repeated, to a silly conspiracy theorist this must be an indication that YouTube is desperate to artificially boost the number of comments. I have read of peope whose requests to be added in MySpace weren’t even automatically accepted, so it doesn’t look like they are desperate to add more friends.

oh my! few months ago, many many people were saying how DA was not marketable, not mainstream, basically no way he will make it in music biz, and now he’s going to have success because he is a teenager, cute, sweet, easily manufactured. I think it’s more than that though. If it is so easy, why didn’t Justin G succeed, or Diana, Katharine, all of them should have made it since they have that cute look. Why has it taken AI so long to produce a male pop star, or someone with a decent shot at it. Why didn’t Ace, or Sanjaya?

I agree, it is much more difficult for DC, but I think he can make it. He has great people behind him. AI wanted a rock winner this time, I guess they must have a pretty good idea what to do considering their experience with Daughtry.

I think the major difference between DA and DC is one of expectations. The AI machine is there to produce pop artistsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦DA easily fits into that mould. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s cute and sweet, nice enough voice and is so easy to manufacture and make him teen fave of the month. No one really expects more from him. He really is traditional AI.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. As others have pointed out, the biggest gripe people had with DA on AI was that he COULDN’T possibly be marketable. Also, a lot of the support that he received was from people who could hardly be classified as tweens and teens. So what made them support him? It was the fact that he has an incredible voice, especially for his young age. If you think the expectations were any less on DA by these fans than on DC by his rock fans, I think you may be oversimplifying the situation. There were a lot of DA’s older fans who didn’t expect (or want) him to be steered down the pop route and they were disappointed with “Crush.” They continue to support him, of course, but just as there are many DC fans who are waiting for the next Axium- or AH-esque song from him, there too are DA fans who anticipate more meaningful, soulful songs from him. They know he has the voice and is capable of much, much more than, but they are patiently waiting for it in the meantime.

I will agree that the road may be slightly harder for DC than the “traditional” AI contestant, but then again, that’s the price he has to pay for choosing to use a pop reality show to launch a major singing career. If there’s a major difference in the expectations on DC and DA, I think it has more to do with the fact that DC was the winner and DA was not instead of the kind of music each one is expected to produce. The fact that DA came out of the gate and exceeded expectations by debuting higher than the winner only made the expectations that much higher for DC because he’s naturally expected to outperform the runner-up. It’s still very early and he may just do that very thing, but the current media perception (right or wrong) is the opposite.

I will say that I also hope that the whole record doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t sound like LO. I do dig the homage it pays to classic and stadium rock, but I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to hear a whole CD of it. But, I can honestly say that I now have no idea what the rest of the record will sound like it (prior to LO, I did have a conception in mind).

I think my only real disappointment with Light On is that it is probably the only song on the album not written by David, and I’m very eager to find out what the current “David Cook sound” is. I do think it’s unlikely that the current David Cook sound is much like this Cornell/Howes song. I guess we’ll know in 39 days.

Crush doing great. It is a good catchy pop tune which can be enjoyed by male or female of all ages who still have crushes, or still have functioning memories of their crushes.

So happy for David and Jive.

Whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s interesting is that the same basic song structure can also be plugged into a song from the pop-rock genre to produce a similar hit.

The record execs wish it were that easy. Every song would be a hit by plugging that same basic song structure formula into every pop/pop-rock song.

Actually, they do have “formulas”. They have programs like Platinum Blue that analayze much more than just the lyrical structure of the song. They look at the melody, harmony, beat, tempo, rhythm, octave, pitch, chord progression, cadence, sonic brilliance, frequency (to quote the New Yorker article on the subject). All of those things hook in the listeners, but most people generally don’t think too much about them (unless they are well versed in music). Most people “just like a song”.

The “formula” does change over time, but it’s never going to be perfect. There are lots of songs/albums/artists that the label was sure were going to be a hit, but flopped badly. So, I tend not to underestimate a hit. There is more that goes into it than the “formula”. Just my opinion.

BTW, Platinum Blue and it’s predecessor’s did predict that such unusal songs such as “Crazy” and Noah Jones’ “Come Away With Me” album would be hits. The “formula” is more open than it might seem.

I think Jive has a lot to do with DA doing well so far.

I like Crush more for its catchy beat and the voice of the singer, not so much for its subject. I like LO, just because I like rock ballads especially those old style pop rock. I like Britney’s songs cause the lyrics so easy, just say womanizer 20 times. lol

minzhi

I am seriously thinking TPTB are not that pro-cookie as I thought.

Gosh, that is a scary thought. But maybe now that the show is over, there are no PTB, just a bunch of different professionals, each with their own ideas, trying their best to sell records?

Honestly speaking, whoever is marketing Light On should be given a knock on their heads. The sales is VERY disappointing.

Light On also only managed to debut at #17 on the Billboard Hot 100 singles, which again is VERY disappointing.

It’s sad that you are so disappointed in Cook’s sales, as you repeat. When one is fond of an artist, as many are of the big D, naturally, we wish him well.

One of the nice things about MJ’s is that there will always be lots of interesting, well-researched comments on each artist’s sales and careers, over the course of months and years.

So any one who reads here regularly will get a broad perspective on how Cook is doing. It was certainly fun to watch the rise of TOML over many months and compare it to early expectations.

So I know I’ll be looking at Light On and the subsequent album as a story that has many chapters. And there will be many posters with interesting discussions of the meanings of sales, trends, careers, and what it all means, beyond the numbers of any one week.

That may help take the edge off any disappointment.

The discussions on this board are so much fun that Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m delurking to post a comment. Personally, I think that LO is a great song and if it gets the right radio play it should become a hit. A song certainly doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t need to be sophisticated or unique to connect with someone or be considered good. In the case of LO, I think that the lyrics are simple but touching and Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s power vocals bring emotion. Is this song groundbreaking or sophisticated? No. Does it have the same chord progression as Nickelback? No clue. Do I like it more than most Nickelback songs? Hell yes!

As for sales: I think that 109K is a great start, given that this is a rock song tagged as a pop song, following on the heels of a rainbow song. A good portion of the non-AI crowd that bought the TOML song are probably not going to gravitate to LO, so he now has the difficult task of attracting a new crowd. More than anything, LO needs to be played on rock stations. It does not have the pop sound of Daughtry and David doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have Nickelbackà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s established successà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦..yet. Based on Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s prior work, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m betting that some of the other songs on his album will do well on top-40à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m just not sure about LO. I can only hope that Cook proves me wrongà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.again.

Congratulations to the magic rainbow. If it can hover around the 60s to 90s on i-tunes, then it will make platinum this year. However, for those who are hoping for its timely demise I am here to say that it just might be around for a while. This author of a book-soon-to-be-hollywood movie called à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Time of my lifeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  is hoping that it will play in the final credits. Scroll down to the part about à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Time Travelingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  http://americanwaymag.com/tabid/2855/tabidext/4200/default.aspx

VFTW first pointed this out on Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s myspace this summerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ if you go to his very last page, and then the one before it, and the one before it, and the one before it, etc.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ the pages are identical. Same exact friends listed in the same order. One of the worsters actually counted how many umpteen dozen pages were identical.

This is something that happens with everyone who has over a certain amount of friends. Look at Daughtry’s page and you’ll see the same thing. It doesn’t change the amount of friends displayed but it shows more of a normal amount of pages.

120,000 friends couldn’t have purchased LO because there was no bulletin sent to them.

LK08 and Aladdin 88,

Thanks for your responses. I wasn’t trying to put down DA…I really do think that he is a sweetie. I guess the point I am trying to make is that he is more of your traditional type of AI- pop, and DC just isn’t. It’s great that DA is going pop and he has a big following who seem almost relieved that he is singing something youthful…even a song like Crush, which for me is very tweeny and teeny bordering on bubblegum pop. I honestly couldn’t imagine putting in my earphones to the ipod and settling in to enjoy the song. And there are those who feel the same about LO. It’s a matter of taste and preference.

The road is rockier for DC because of huge expectations from varied fans who want different styles from him. You have those clamoring for the cover music he did on AI, those who want a rehash of Axium and AH and those who want Magic Rainbows. What’s a guy (and producer) to do? Well I think that they are doind EXACTLY what needs to be done:
Release a transitional song as the first real single in order to bridge these different styles- a song which shows off his voice and open up the possibility of gaining new fans…or at least their interest. DC is rock…and there are varying degrees of rock. I remember how rock purists used to slag off Led Zepplin of all groups!

Yes…I believe he will lose some fans along the way who cling to AH, Axium and the cover songs he did on AI, but I also feel that RCA, and Cavallo, know what should be done to in order to open up for new fans. DC chose a path which rockers do not choose, and that was to be on a cheesy talent show….so here we are dissecting him and his music and enjoying it.

I think #17 on the Billboard 100 after just a week is nothing to sneer at. Yeah yeah, I know DA did better right? Has nothing really to do with DC outside of fan rivalries. As I said before, I would rather see DC at the top of rock or alt/indie charts than see him at the top of the pop chart. Selfish of me I know, but I want GOOD music from him that one day may be great music. I don’t think pop is the way for him to go. The best songers and song writers, IMHO, are not high on the pop charts.

BTW: Where is all of this media that people keep talking about which is slagging off Cook? I haven’t seen it.

There has been no negative DC media so far after yesterday. All articles about sales talk about TI and Jennifer Hudson. DC is mentioned on E Online article with Christina Aguilera as top 10 debut’s worth noting.

This may change, but I haven’t seen anything so far. We do live in an Idol bubble.

This may change, but I havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen anything so far. We do live in an Idol bubble.

Oh yes we do…

Thanks Aileen. I was starting to think I was missing all of this big negative news about DC.

BTW: Where is all of this media that people keep talking about which is slagging off Cook? I havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen it.

I think I was referring back to the articles that came out when DA’s song debuted higher than DC’s–you know, the really obnoxious ones that used the various forms of the word “crush” within the headline. There were many like that, unfortunately.

The media MAY start up today since Billboard stuff seems to get picked up by a lot of outlets and they now have up their sales article and Fred’s Chart Beat column talks about this weeks sales and David is mentioned but there’s so much buzz all over Billboard about T.I. everyone else except maybe JHud is pretty much a footnote. Fred says this is the Chart Beat column

“Light On” is Cook’s third title to debut inside the top 20; the earlier two debuted higher. “The Time of My Life” opened at No. 3 on June 7, the same date “Dream Big” bowed at No. 17.

Fred’s a decent guy so I wouldn’t expect him to say much in terms of comparison. I’m surprised he didn’t point out though that this is 12th Hot 100 entry. If you ask me that’s pretty impressive for a new artist no matter how you slice it.

VFTW first pointed this out on Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s myspace this summerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ if you go to his very last page, and then the one before it, and the one before it, and the one before it, etc.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ the pages are identical. Same exact friends listed in the same order. One of the worsters actually counted how many umpteen dozen pages were identical.

It’s the way myspace works after the friend count goes over a certain number.

Edited to say OOPS! Sorry I should have read more carefully before I responded.

Negative press wouldn’t happen today. If it’s going to happen it will be tomorrow because the Billboard charts are what people write about. That said, last time a lot of it seemed to pick up on Fred’s column so if he didn’t say anything, there is a chance that it won’t go much further than that.

If thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a major difference in the expectations on DC and DA, I think it has more to do with the fact that DC was the winner and DA was not instead of the kind of music each one is expected to produce.

I will reserve comment on the rest of your post, but on this I have to say you are absolutely KIDDING yourself! Idol traditionally has been and still is the domain of light, airy pop music. The show started out in Britain being called “Pop Idol”, for god’s sake!

There have been three “rock singers” of note who came off AI. Bo Bice wasn’t even allowed to do the music he wanted. Chris Daughtry has been wildly successful, but has minimal acceptance in the rock world– unless you consider the world of Nickelback/ Hinder as an actual part of the “rock world”. (Chris also seems to be happiest when he’s performing the few songs that allow him to scream, from what I’ve seen, and not the AC hits that have made him his millions).

Now we have David Cook, the first rocker who actually won the show, who, according to what we’re hearing, is receiving the most artistic freedom of any of the three. The only problem is that since he is the “actual winner” (since you mentioned expectations), not only is he expected to outsell his runnerup, but there is some expectation out there that he should also out sell Daughtry (good luck with that). But, trying to establish himself as a credible rock artist doesn’t necessarily go hand-in-hand with meeting these expectations.

Concerning David Archuleta, it may be true that he has to negotiate between some fans who want to see him Disnified and others that want to see him Grobanized and perhaps still others that would like to see him Mayerized. But, whichever one or ones of these genres he opts for, he will not have to fight for acceptance within them simply because he got his start on American Idol. He does not begin his career with an automatic stigma.

Cook, on the other hand, is trying to break into a genre that is predisposed to despise him because he got his break singing on a TV show and is not perceived to have made it the “legitimate way”. I’m sorry, but the challenges that he and Archie face are not remotely comparable.

Now we have David Cook, the first rocker who actually won the show, who, according to what weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re hearing, is receiving the most artistic freedom of any of the three.

A little OT but is that really true? Didn’t Blake Lewis get to write a lot of his songs and work with a hot producer and established co-writers? Even Taylor got that treatment. And Daughtry co-wrote or wrote a lot of his songs. His producer was nothing to sneeze as well. I know Neal said that was the case, but I don’t really know if David was treated so differently from past Idols. Not that I’m complaining.

Cook, on the other hand, is trying to break into a genre that is predisposed to despise him because he got his break singing on a TV show and is not perceived to have made it the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“legitimate wayà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sorry, but the challenges that he and Archie face are not remotely comparable.

Well I agree that Cook is facing an uphill battle trying to be rock. They are definitely going to give him a hard time. Archie has his hurdles too though, nobody even thought he could DO pop until “Crush”. He also has said repeatedly he wants to write songs and go the Mayer route alter down the road, and I think coming off idol and starting out with a Jordin-like album is going to make that difficult.

That said, I don’t really think there is a need to compare who has it tougher. What does it even matter? LOL.

Now we have David Cook, the first rocker who actually won the show, who, according to what weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re hearing, is receiving the most artistic freedom of any of the three.

A little OT but is that really true? Didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t Blake Lewis get to write a lot of his songs and work with a hot producer and established co-writers? Even Taylor got that treatment. And Daughtry co-wrote or wrote a lot of his songs. His producer was nothing to sneeze as well. I know Neal said that was the case, but I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really know if David was treated so differently from past Idols. Not that Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m complaining.

Well noctem mentioned Bo and Daughtry. Bo got almost zero artistic freedom and ended up with one of penned songs on his debut. RCA threw him a bone by making his album a dual-disc and stuck on as bonus’ three of his pre-AI tracks but he wasn’t really allowed to participate in co-writing.

Chris had co-writing credits on almost all his tracks with the exception of I think one or two, and his first single was a co-write. Daughtry had Howard Benson as producer and he’s pretty darn close to A-list.

We haven’t see how many David penned tracked end up on the album so right now it’s premature to say he’s been given more artistic freedom than any of them considering his first single isn’t even one of his own. To be honest I put very little stock in what Neil says until I see the final product.

That said, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really think there is a need to compare who has it tougher. What does it even matter? LOL.

I was responding to another poster who basically asserted that the pressure Cook was facing had little to do with the field of music he was pursuing but was because of the early success of the kid he beat.

To the lists of obstacles that Cook has to face, I will also add this, while I’m on the subject. He faces even more of a stigma in the rock industry because he won the televised karaoke competition, as opposed to Daughtry. Daughtry at least could hope that some music fans would arrive at the conclusion that he was too “rawk” for Idol and thereby decide he might be ok after all.

And I already addressed the fact earlier that Archie had to overcome doubts about whether he had in him the makings of a pop star as an INDIVIDUAL. Still, that is worlds away from facing a pervasive loathing for you in IN GENERAL within the musical genre you’re trying to make it in simply because of how you came to be there.

I have to say you are absolutely KIDDING yourself! Idol traditionally has been and still is the domain of light, airy pop music.

Things are going so well. Please, let’s continue to play nice.

Reminder:

Please don’t question the motives of your fellow posters or disparage their opinions. Keep your remarks focused on YOUR opinions. Stick to “I” statements. Please respect the opinions of your fellow posters.

Thank you.

Well I agree that Cook is facing an uphill battle trying to be rock. They are definitely going to give him a hard time. Archie has his hurdles too though, nobody even thought he could DO pop until à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . He also has said repeatedly he wants to write songs and go the Mayer route alter down the road, and I think coming off idol and starting out with a Jordin-like album is going to make that difficult.

That said, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really think there is a need to compare who has it tougher. What does it even matter? LOL.

Thank you! That was one of the points I was trying to make…BOTH of them have their own respective challenges and expectations. Nowhere in my last post did I say that Cook wouldn’t have challenges breaking in to the rock genre (in fact, I specifically pointed out that it would be difficult to be a rocker coming from a pop reality show), but I just completely disagree that Archie doesn’t have his own set of challenges and expectations when it comes to the music he chooses to create (and you did an excellent job explaining what those are).

And I also never implied which David has it tougher and I agree that there’s no need to compare. What I was saying is that naturally, the expectation has been for the winner of AI to outperform the runner-up. I mean, isn’t that what the whole concept of the show is centered around? LOL! Why else does the show hype up the competitive aspect so much if it’s really not important? I think that’s what the media generally believes to be the case, even if history has proven otherwise (Clay, Daughtry).

A little OT but is that really true? Didn’t Blake Lewis get to write a lot of his songs and work with a hot producer and established co-writers?

Yes it is true. Blake got an amazing amount of freedom. Too much, maybe. LOL. He co-wrote nearly every song on the album, and Ryan Tedder of OneRepublic and “Bleeding Love” fame co-wrote much of the material with him.

And yes, Daughtry co-wrote a lot of his album as well.

Scratches head. I still donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t understand what RCA will learn from Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s marketing that will help Daughtry. In the past two years, the focus on singles has gotten bigger. That has nothing to do with Cook or Daughtry.

I don’t really understand what’s so controversial about what I said that would induce head-scratching. Soundscene mentioned that Daughtry first single didn’t get promoted early by RCA, but DC’s did. I’m putting out my guess as to why, and presented a few possible factors. That’s all. I’m don’t feel like I was implying that Daughtry will learn from Cook, or Cook from Daughtry, if that’s what’s bothering people. I was merely suggesting RCA may have “learned” from Daughtry’s experience that it makes sense to release a single for DC in advance of the record. You seem to be saying that RCA has learned from the “past two years” of experience in the music industry in general , and focusing on singles/releasing them earlier is the new way. Great, that’s what I’m trying to say, too– just that Daughtry’s record may have been encompassed in those two years of experience! YMMV. I also agree with the person who said they just didn’t have enough time with Daughtry to release the single, and given the time, would want to do that with any artist, including DC or Daughtry. So yes, if RCA decides to release Daughtry’s next single earlier and promote it more, it would be because a) they have more time and b) they know it’s a better strategy, having learned from the past two years of experience, etc.

I was responding to another poster who basically asserted that the pressure Cook was facing had little to do with the field of music he was pursuing but was because of the early success of the kid he beat.

And now you’re twisting my words again–I NEVER said that. I was very careful to point out in my original post that Cook naturally has obstacles trying to be a rocker. I merely said that the pressure on him is greater (from the media’s perspective) because he was the WINNER of the biggest reality show on Earth rather than just because he’s pursuing rock music.

And if my reminders aren’t heeded, I’ll be putting posters into moderation.

Here they are again:

Please donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t question the motives of your fellow posters or disparage their opinions. DON’T PUT WORDS IN THEIR MOUTHS. Keep your remarks focused on YOUR opinions. Stick to à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  statements. Please respect the opinions of your fellow posters.

Cook, on the other hand, is trying to break into a genre that is predisposed to despise him because he got his break singing on a TV show and is not perceived to have made it the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“legitimate wayà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sorry, but the challenges that he and Archie face are not remotely comparable.

I don’t think that Rock has any more reservations about Idols than any other format. I remember when Daughtry came out and there were all sorts of dire warnings that they wouldn’t get spun on Rock and they had a lot of hits there. They’ve exhausted the rockier tunes on their CD, so that’s why you mainly see HAC/AC spins for them now (the lighter fair is being released at the tail end. How many singles did Daughtry get off that album? Seems like almost every song if you count all formats. They were actually releasing two singles at a time at one point). They have toured with some of the most successful rock tours in recent times and they have even been nominated for Grammys in the rock category. If Rock has no problem with a band that was created after the CD was recorded by session musician as a showcase an ex-Idol, I think that Rock isn’t as stuck-up as they are rumoured to be. IMO, Rock, like all other formats, just wants listeners and buyers.

And Pop doesn’t automatically accept all Idols either. The history of Idol is littered with Idols who’ve tried to go Poppy but Pop was having none of that.

Idol history is also full of Idols that have unprecedented control of their albums. Tamyra, on the very first season of Idol, wrote most of her album (all but one song, IIRC). She also helped to write a coronation song. 19Alphabet told anybody who would listen that Chris D was writing everything on his CD (and it ended up being almost everything). The tales of him beavering away each night to write was something straight of Dickens. Blake was also given unprecedented control of everything from the (hideous) album cover to the theme (80s mixed tape) to the (hideous) concept for the first video.

I won’t claim that Cook is going to have it easy. I just think it’s not easy for anybody in the music biz.

All in my opinion, of course.

Pressure, expectations, obstacles, hype, rejection, disappointment… Oh my! I’m certain David A and C got the memo about the more than likely negative challenges they would each be facing as new, standalone artists in one of the most fickle businesses on earth – David Cook especially, since he had been knocking around on the fringes of the rock/alternative scene for years previous to his Idol appearance.

All artists, I’m sure, face the same challenges in trying to get their music heard, and appeal to wider audiences – the winners are the ones who use them as catalysts to keep that fire in the belly… may we have many years of output from both to see how they’ve managed to overcome, or succumb, to these “challenges”…..

“Concerning David Archuleta, it may be true that he has to negotiate between some fans who want to see him Disnified and others that want to see him Grobanized and perhaps still others that would like to see him Mayerized. But, whichever one or ones of these genres he opts for, he will not have to fight for acceptance within them simply because he got his start on American Idol. He does not begin his career with an automatic stigma.”

I don’t agree. I think we can all safely say that the ONE thing ALL idols have in common is the “idol stigma.” No matter how far you get in the competition, the fact that you tried to kickstart your career through a reality show will follow you to the end of your days. I think an AI artist coming out of the gate faces the “almighty stigma” every time his/her single plays on the radio with the generic “and now here’s the american idol …whatever.” You can practically hear the snickers and feel the rolling of the eyes.

I’m a fan of AI since season 1, but even I cringe after the competition is long and gone and the poor artist still has to bear the weight of the “AI intro.” AI singers are doing what they can to make their dream happen and if it has to come through a reality show then so be it. But they will ALL face the AI stigma in one way or another.

I don’t think the Rock genre is more aversive to Rock artists that come from AI. I think they are more critical when it comes to actual material and the “selling out” factor. Look at all of the long toothed rockers that have their own reality show! They get their own jabs at looking like total idiots on reality tv.. but they GAIN popularity because they put it all out there with the “I don’t care and welcome to my twisted little world attitude.”

I don’t think that Rock has any more reservations about Idols than any other format. I remember when Daughtry came out and there were all sorts of dire warnings that they wouldn’t get spun on Rock and they had a lot of hits there.

Daughtry had two songs make the Top 10 on Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks. “It’s Not Over” hit #5 and “What I Want” featuring Slash (Slash’s presence probably helped) reached #6. “Crashed” stalled at #24. INO was the only Daughtry song to chart on Hot Modern Rock Tracks at #17. Chris is featured on 7 Dust song that’s currently #28 on the Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks chart.

Daughtry has had 4 other songs chart strictly on Pop/AC, “Home”, “Over You”, “Feels Like Tonight”, and “What About Now”

Daughtry has not been played on any Rock stations in the Boston market, so I wonder if some big market Rock stations shied away from playing Daughtry due to the cred issue?

I’ll eat my hat if any of the local rock stations in Boston play David Cook.

I think AI is an interesting science experiment. The judges really don’t know much more than you or I as far as talent is concerned. Anyone who is not tone deaf can tell you wether or not a singer can potentially be marketable. As long as you don’t sing like the “She Bangs” guy or look like Shrek.. Hollywood can sell you. (ok.. Shrek is cute.. but only in cartoons! and that’s because he has a sense of humor.)

So everyone put on your lab goggles.. here we go!

1. So you take a GIRL or a BOY.. check!
2. Looks have to be pleasing.. SUPER cute is a plus…. check! check!
3. Singing has to be awright dawg… you can work it out…. check!
4. Verbal skills have to be a notch higher than Keanu Reeves in Bill and Ted… check!
5. Personality.. it’s nice if you have one and AI doesn’t have to inject one into you.. ooookay.. checkorino!
6. Create a fan frenzy! ….wait! stand back before we check this off because the beaker is going to BOIL OVER!!

This is why we love AI… we are all scientists at heart! No point here.. just had fun writing this nonsense. Sorry MJ! Sometimes, I think i’m funny and had to share. :blush_tb:

Mmm. I have wondered if Daughtry might have had more success on the rock charts if he had not come from Idol. (Not saying that he didn’t have success on those charts—just that he might have had more success but for the Idol link). On the other hand, he might not have gotten the chance to test out the rock charts if he had not come from Idol.

Ultimately, Idol has a lot of pluses and minuses. As David C said, it’s a great springboard. So many talented singers out there never get a chance to make it big. If you listen to some of David C’s pre-Idol music, it’s a bit stunning that he didn’t get picked up by some major, or even less-than-major, label. So, Idol opens those doors, and if those doors open for some lucky contestant, there are resources available that just aren’t for some independent singer plugging away at his craft in some rent-a-studio somewhere. You can pick up a chunk of invested fans in one go. And you get a lot of education, between the show and the tour, in how to be a singer and entertainer. A lot of pluses.

On the other hand, there are those music snobs who have trouble accepting someone—anyone—from Idol. My perception of the rock world is that it is a bit more music-snobby than other genres, but that’s only a perception. I have no proof. I also think that contestants can run into problems where a chunk of that great fanbase that they picked up through Idol wants them to sing songs like they did on a particular theme night. Plus, there are increased expectations from someone who did very well on Idol, with people saying, hey, with all of the pluses that you got from Idol, you should be able to do x. Which can lead to unrealistic criticism, and can also lead to compromises that another new artist might not have to make at the outset of his/her career.

That said, I feel very good about David C’s future success, and while I don’t follow David A except insofar as MJ posts stuff on him, signs are good for his success, as well.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think the Rock genre is more aversive to Rock artists that come from AI.

Oh I disagree with that. The mainstream pop/rock scene is fine, but if an AI person tries to be anything other than Nickleback you are going to hit mucho resistance. These rock guys guard their “cred” strongly. Nickleback has no cred with these types anyway so it doesn’t matter. LOL.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t agree. I think we can all safely say that the ONE thing ALL idols have in common is the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“idol stigma.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

I would argue that an R&B singer coming from AI does not have any stigma at all. Rueben & Fantasia were met with open arms. I don’t think teen-pop Jordin had any issues. On the other hand, Country showed some resistance to Carrie at first. I think it has to do with whether you are heading for a genre populated by singer/songwriters. One could argue that Archie is going the teen pop route so no one expects him to write anyway. I think his resistance will come when he tries to pen songs.

And I already addressed the fact earlier that Archie had to overcome doubts about whether he had in him the makings of a pop star as an INDIVIDUAL. Still, that is worlds away from facing a pervasive loathing for you in IN GENERAL within the musical genre youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re trying to make it in simply because of how you came to be there.

I guess my point was that they both face challenges with artistic cred, just different challenges, and that it makes no sense to compare them on that regard. There’s just no way to win that argument. It’s too subjective a topic. That is all.

About Its Not Over not getting early promotion. I’m going to disagree a little. Airplay didn’t burn up the charts right away but INO was used in promos for the show Prison Break. IMO that’s bigger than any google ads.

Look at all of the long toothed rockers that have their own reality show!

How long can it be till someone decides to gather up some of the unemployed former Idols . . . with a dark, dark purpose.

Coming soon from FOX Entertainment!

Desperate Idols

Fifteen singers cast out by the brutalities of the music industry are flown to a remote island, where they fight tooth and claw for survival. After a vicious elimination process, the two finalists win recording contracts . . .
but ONLY IF THEY MARRY* . . . and make it through six months together . . . and agree to let the whole thing be filmed!

*irregardless of gender . . . same sex? Even better! Not gay? Even better! Mormon? EVEN BETTER!

Wait, I better go trademark these ideas before Fuller reads this.

Just a quick comment regarding the lack of negative news– I must be losing my mind because I find that I have mixed feelings about that. One of those “be careful what you wish for” situations. On the one hand, I hate fanwars and the aftermath of negative news of DC’s debut last week would not be fun. On the other hand, don’t they say in entertainment that, there’s no such thing as negative publicity? I don’t agree with that in general, but for a new artist, does it have an element of truth? At least some haters with big headlines would do its part to get DC some mainstream attention? Instead, we have DC’s debut buried as a footnote amongst the bigger news of TI’s record-breaking success. I can’t believe I’m craving DC promotion so much that I’m almost bummed there aren’t any big negative headlines to rile up fans! No wait, I changed my mind. I actually don’t wish negative headlines on DC– the media can be ruthless, and I don’t want him to be pegged as a joke or failure. Haha, sorry about the bi-polar post. I think I’m just craving promotion. Patience, I repeat to myself… patience.

ETA: INO was used in Prison Break promos? Wow, something like that would be so awesome for LO… off to wishful thinking-land

^^I will wath that show…. lol

Oh I disagree with that. The mainstream pop/rock scene is fine, but if an AI person tries to be anything other than Nickleback you are going to hit mucho resistance. These rock guys guard their à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“credà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  strongly. Nickleback has no cred with these types anyway so it doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t matter. LOL.

Yep. I agree. Hence, Daughtry not being played in the super-snobby Boston market. Waaf plays Nickleback and Hinder, but BCN and FNX do not.

I also heard that K-Rock in LA didn’t play Daughtry, but I’m not 100% sure about that.

TOMA – U Rock! ….. just the type of levity needed…. keep em coming :bye_tb:

I would argue that an R&B singer coming from AI does not have any stigma at all. Rueben & Fantasia were met with open arms.

I agree that they were both accepted by the R&B music community with open arms, but those two don’t get nearly the respect that they should as Idol winners. In some ways, I think the R&B singers from AI face a different kind of stigma because they aren’t “mainstream”.

BTW: Where is all of this media that people keep talking about which is slagging off Cook? I havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen it.

Thankfully, I haven’t seen much negative commentary in the press lately either. However, there is this small blurb in the Times Colonist that came out on Monday. It is not favorable toward Cook…

5. David Archuleta (Nov. 11); David Cook (Nov. 18). The first- and second-place finishers in last season’s American Idol will release new full-length albums within a week of each other next month, giving fans of the two Davids another head-to-head contest. Archuleta is already out in front: His first single, Crush, crushes the mediocrity of Cook’s lame-duck Light On. Archie is way more female-friendly, and in the bizarro world that is American Idol that counts for everything.

I also heard that K-Rock in LA didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t play Daughtry, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not 100% sure about that.

I would be surprised if they did. I was under the impression that only a handful of rock stations ever played Daughtry, and most of that was after he sold a bazillion records. As much as I don’t like Light On, RCA would be nuts to try to market Cook mainly to rock radio. They HAD to go the “accessible” rock route. I just hope it gets a little more Green Day as time goes on, and less Hinder. Sigh.

I agree that they were both accepted by the R&B music community with open arms, but those two donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get nearly the respect that they should as Idol winners. In some ways, I think the R&B singers from AI face a different kind of stigma because they arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“mainstreamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

I agree with that. But in their case, the cred problem doesn’t come from within the genre. It’s from people who don’t respect adult leaning R&B anyway, unless you move Mary J numbers.

One other thing to point out about the rock format is that its not geared to play new music as much as its Top 40 or even Hot AC counterparts. The best one can hope for is 2000 spins on an active rock format and thats if you top the charts there. Rock is less receptive to new music from anyone, which makes the road even tougher for someone from AI.

A lot of great discussion has already about expectations and I firmly believe that this is David C’s largest obstacle. He won the show largely because of his versatility, someone picked up the phone and voted for him for many various reasons. He has fans that range from those who loved MOTN all the way to the Hello fans. We all know David is not going to please all of them, and its been mentioned that TOML, AH and Axium lovers are also going to be left behind to some degree.

Which brings me to follow up that point, its David’s large catalog of previous work that is ramping up the expectations even higher. I know the causal fans never went digging for this music but a great deal of David’s fans have. I know a lot of Idol contestants have previous work but have any of them been sought out and poured over like David’s? I think thats one reason why Crush was so embraced at first, everyone was looking forward to that first original song from David A and was excited to get it. With David C we have about 100 original songs from him already and it colors the perception of the new song greatly when we even have our own comparisons to make.

My final point on expectations is that Daughtry was allowed to be successful out of the gate because there were no expectations for him. Sure people really enjoyed him on Idol and a lot followed him after the show. But at that point nobody who hadn’t finished first or second on Idol had really come out and made a name for themselves in the musical world and topped the charts. Daughtry was allowed to present the music first and then let opinions form. This is very much the way I feel has allowed for more universal acceptance of David A, the music preceded the opinion formation. I’m not trying to take anything away from Daughtry or David A, they needed to have quality and popular songs to gain that acceptance and notoriety. But my point is more that David C’s name and expectations precedes his music and thats what I feel like is coloring the perceptions of his fans and the media.

I was just about to say my major market rock station has never played Daughtry or Nickelback, but upon browsing their playlist, I found one Nickelback song buried in the mid-200s out of over 400 songs on their list: “Too Bad”. Interesting choice (it sounds like every other NB single to me). But anyway, my point was that the guys at this station fancy themselves major rock snobs, and the DJs are pretty much all D-bags (but I like the music, so I listen quite a bit). So I would also eat my hat if this station plays David Cook any time soon, outside of “mocking” purposes. Yes, did I say they are D-bags?

The rock radio station in my city(a large one) plays Daughtry all the time. It’s straight rock also. I don’t think anyone can deny that Daughtry has done very well for himself. They haven’t played LO yet and when I called to request it, they said they would not be playing it and said a few unkind words. :unsure_tb:

MJ: “Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll eat my hat if any of the local rock stations in Boston play David Cook.”

OK, now for some insider Boston baseball!

Our menu:

WBCN, the once mighty rock of Boston.
Signature content: interviewing drunks at Fenway Park.
Target audience: douchebags.
Probably not.
Why: they’re douchebags. Nothing like knowing your audience.

WFNX, vanguard of commuter rail distant exurbia.
Signature content: 1980s hour, free gas giveaway for those long commutes.
Probably not.
Why: they have yet to make it past 1998.

WERS, Emerson College radio
Signature content: Stereolab and Modest Mouse meet Neal Young and Etta James
Target audience: future music technicians with huge vinyl collections, people who run coffee shops in Jamaica Plain.
Probably not.
Why: AI stigma, LO too commercial.

WXRV, “The River,” Boston’s Only Independent Radio Station
Signature content: Triple AAA all the way
Target audience: the rest of us over 25, under 60 rock/alternative/indie
Maybe! Not LO, probably. But what if the rest of the album, the Cook-penned stuff, is closer to his MWK, Analog Heart, Muse and OLP luvin’ roots?

They play O.A.R. and The Fray!

Couldn’t it happen?

I know I’m going to get replies saying that there were various expectations for David A. Some thought he was going to do “older” type music, people were worried he could not sell pop or make a modern commercial sounding song. And I agree with that, and Crush has done a great job presenting David A as a current artist. But I’d chalk that up to more concerns and predictions, not expectations. Nobody could point out an original David A song and say, “I want his new single to sound like that” or “I want his new song to sound like xyz so it plays on this format” or “I loved the way he arranged this song on Idol so I hope his music sounds like that” or “he’s the most anticipated winner since sliced bread so he has to blow all of our socks off with some completely original sound that somehow is supposed to sell like hotcakes commercially”. David C can’t be all things to all people and yet somehow the expectations are that.

I also heard that K-Rock in LA didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t play Daughtry, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not 100% sure about that.

I heard them play “It’s Not Over” occasionally, but other, smaller alternative rock stations were much more fond of it (X 103.9 and Star 98.7, for example). The only station I’ve heard play any of his other songs around here is the biggest AC station, KBIG 104.3. “What About Now” and “Feels Like Tonight” get a fair amount of spins there.

I don’t see KROQ playing LO any more than they do Daughtry’s recent releases, I’m sorry to say. It’s rare that I hear them play anything that tends toward the adult contemporary audience .

I mostly listen to Top 40 nowadays (and browse rock, hip hop) so i’m not too familiar with what Rock stations will put on their play list. As far as Daughtry is concerned, I think he fits more into the Top 40 stations and not “Rawk” stations. I don’t see him sandwiched in between Rob Zombie, Velvet Revolver, Metallica or Staind. Daughtry sounds very Rock Lite to me and would not easily hang with die hard rockers, but that has nothing to do with him coming from AI. It’s the sound he has chosen that doesn’t suit the typical true rock station. Just cuz somebody wears a chain on their belt doesn’t make them an all out rocker. ..just sayin’.

I love Daughtry and am glad he is successful, but he’s more Bon Jovi than Metallica.. which is more than okay!

Daughtry had two songs make the Top 10 on Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks. à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Not Overà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  hit #5 and à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“What I Wantà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  featuring Slash (Slashà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s presence probably helped) reached #6.

Personally, I see that as a success in Rock. I know my standards are low, but Top 10 does it for me. I just don’t think that every artist can get to number 1. I think Kelly is a successful Pop artist even though she hasn’t gotten to number 1 on the Hot 100 with the exception of her coronation song. Number 1 is tough to get in any format.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll eat my hat if any of the local rock stations in Boston play David Cook.

Well, Boston stations are a tough nut to crack for anybody. Although, an evil part of me wants to start some sort of campaign to get them play Cook. You can use the ketchup I didn’t need for eating my calculator this week. LOL. I’m getting banned, aren’t I?

I have wondered if Daughtry might have had more success on the rock charts if he had not come from Idol.

I’m going to say “no”. I think he would have kept his job as an auto parts representative instead. Idol was the springboard. There are lots of great artists out there working in auto parts stores to be able to make ends met. I used to have a prof that used to tell us that there were smarter people than us students living in slums in third world countries (i.e. appreciate the chance you are being given to learn).

My perception of the rock world is that it is a bit more music-snobby than other genres, but thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only a perception.

IMO, musical genres more snobby than Rock when it comes to Idol (as judged by the total lack of success Idols in those fields):
1) Opera
2) Gregorian Chants
3) Kabuki
4) Children’s Music (Raffi will cut you! And watch out for that Yellow Wiggle. He’s pretty sneaky)
6) Zydeco
6) Acid House
7) Surf Music
Katajjaq (Iniut Throat Singing)
9) Viking Metal
10) Wizard Rock

I mostly listen to Top 40 nowadays (and browse rock, hip hop) so ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not too familiar with what Rock stations will put on their play list. As far as Daughtry is concerned, I think he fits more into the Top 40 stations and not à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Rawkà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  stations. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see him sandwiched in between Rob Zombie, Velvet Revolver, Metallica or Staind. Daughtry sounds very Rock Lite to me and would not easily hang with die hard rockers, but that has nothing to do with him coming from AI. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the sound he has chosen that doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t suit the typical true rock station. Just cuz somebody wears a chain on their belt doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t make them an all out rocker. ..just sayinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢.

I love Daughtry and am glad he is successful, but heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s more Bon Jovi than Metallica.. which is more than okay!

ITA. There is no shame in embracing who you are. Daughtry does what he does and does it well. And frankly, I don’t think Cook is that kind of rocker either. Analog Heart and Axiom had a very commercial sound, I don’t think he was ever trying to be Rob Zombie. DC just has the potential to be a quaility commercial rocker. I don’t think he (or us, as fans) should worry about rock radio, because he’s not for them and they ain’t for him. And that’s perfectly fine IMO.

I think that all that has been discussed here re DC has been discussed by DC, Cavallo and RCA. They are not babes in the woods. DC is an intelligent guy and I am sure he is very aware of the whole rock cred issue, and how different people perceive, and will, his music. Cavallo is an A-list producer, who I am sure knows the music world quite well. I think they achieved what they wanted with LO, whether people like the song or not.

DC sings his effin’ face off and the song is pop/rock…for a reason.

I try not to start panting when the whole AI issue is brought up because it would be silly for me to ignore that DC is the AI winner. BUT….he is not your typical AI winner, and therefore I think how he is handled will be different. Yes, he’s proved with his old stuff he is a singer/songwriter, but he still needs guidance if he is to manover in the music industry.He’s not a pop singer but an artist, and I think that is a first for AI too.

I am one of those who think that TOML has damaged David Cook’s credibility as a rocker (it’s one of the reasons why I hated that song, apart from it being truly atrocious). LO doesn’t really help even if it is a better song than TOML.

Yes, soft choruses preceding loud ones after the verses are a à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“standard deviceà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . Anyone who listens to any popular music at all knows this.

Yup, that’s why I said in a previous thread that this strikes me as the biggest cliche in LO.

But, I defy you to show me a popular modern song that switches from the kind of bombastic bridge that LO has down to a piano-only accompanied chorus and immediately back to the songà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s loudest wailing chorus of all.

Well, we may be at the “agree-to-disagree” point. I think a comparison that’s limited to modern songs that use a piano as the sole instrument in the soft chorus section is really down to a hair-splitting level of detail.

I think the details of this loud/soft transition stuff are irrelevant to either the song’s level of sophistication or its potential popularity. I expect that the specific instrumentation there doesn’t make a bit of difference to the overwhelming majority of fans. I know people who love music — care a lot about it — who sometimes can’t even tell whether they’re hearing a piano, a synthesizer, or a guitar. They’re not going to care — or even notice, possibly — that this section in LO uses a piano instead of some other instrumentation. Heck, even in my case — as someone who can not only tell when I’m hearing a guitar, but can tell when I’m hearing a Fender Strat with the pickup switch in the 4th position — even I don’t care that LO uses a piano there instead of something else. It’s just a soft part, like all those soft parts in all those other songs.

In sum, I’m really just echoing what soundscene and jwright888 said:

I guarantee that listeners will not be so exacting in their analysis of the song. Theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re going to hear verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-chorus-chorus (yes, I counted the choruses), and they will feel comforted that it follows that structure because ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s what they expect to hear.

Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s about the emotional chord that music strikes (apologies for the lame pun). Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s about feeling the musicà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to have to intellectualize it, analyze it or break it down in order to appreciate it. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not about lyrics or arrangements or whatever as disparate elementsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦to me ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a gestalt kind of thing.

I agree. Although I know enough music theory to analyze a song and figure out what it is that makes me love it, I do that (if at all) only after I’ve “just listened to it” and fallen in love with it. Some songs make me swoon, a couple have even been known to bring me close to tears (I’m talking musically, not lyrically), and that ain’t because of any intellectual analysis I’m doing as I listen. I just happen to get some more fun out of it later by analyzing why I swooned etc.

Back to noctem’s comments:

The contrasts are jarring, and one of the reasons I didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t take to the song right away was because I couldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get a handle on it at first. The song felt like it jerked you around.

I actually agree with the observation about it being jarring and jerking you around, but for a different reason. I feel it’s because it’s not musically coherent / holistic (to use noctem’s term) — rather, it feels to me like a checklist of pop/rock devices that were inserted to cover the bases. The guitar solo sticks out as one of these things — it’s so short and buried in the mix that I feel like I can hear them in the studio saying, “Well, I guess we have to put 4 bars of guitar solo in here, because you’re supposed to have a guitar solo.” Obviously that might not be how they were thinking, but that’s how the end result feels to me. This is why I’ve previously described the song’s production as feeling artificial and anonymous to me — something that even David’s huge talent couldn’t overcome.

But that’s “just an opinion” (hmm, where have I heard that before?), and it doesn’t feel that way at all to some other people. That’s what makes things interesting, isn’t it? :biggrin_wp:

JudyOhio, I saw your question about Crush and will do my best to write my thoughts for you before time slips away from me!

While on the other hand DC is so many different things to so many different peopleà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦..there are those who want him to do Axium, or AH, or the songs he did on the show or TOML or LOà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.but he canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t be all things to all people.

I don’t know about anyone else, but for me, I love pretty much every song DC has sung, no matter what the genre, ie Axium, Analog Heart, Idol or LO. What I love is The Voice! So, he is all things to me. I haven’t heard one song yet that I can say I dislike. That’s what I love about DC, the fact that he can sing so many different ways and sound amazing each and every time.
There is no way he can disappoint me.

tigervixxxen.. luv the x’s… sounds like a growl in your name.. lol.. too cute!

I didn’t expect DC to have a phenomenal first single, but I had hoped that he would have capitalized on his beautiful singing range.. not just growl some lyrics at me. There’s a time and place for a growl, but it doesn’t have to be from the get go and throughout the song. The “growl” gets tiresome from ANY artist.. Hinder.. Nickelback.. Pearl Jam…etc.. etc. Just like the Mariah and Leona falsetto’s… they too get tiresome.

Either way, I will support Cookie because he does have talent and I just hope he’s the type of artist that I will enjoy listening to in the years to come.

DA is all about variety and meaningful songs – that is who he is. I hope he attracts many bees with his honey! and I wish both David’s long careers.

I don’t think David just growls or screams his way through LO, and I do think it shows off his range. I just hate that he has to sing “Even in the daylight, Shine on!” which to me is almost as cheesy as magic rainbows. But that’s Chris Cornell’s fault, I guess. It’s easy for me to give David a pass on a song he didn’t write and just be mildly pissed at RCA for picking it as the first single. I’ve grown to like it well enough and think I would like it a lot of he ever records an acoustic version of it. As it is, I think his “screamy” vocals fit the tone and instrumentation.

I do think that David’s own songs are going to have a more Top 40-friendly feel, catchier hooks and a brighter sound, although I could be very wrong.

1) Opera
2) Gregorian Chants
3) Kabuki
4) Childrenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Music (Raffi will cut you! And watch out for that Yellow Wiggle. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s pretty sneaky)
6) Zydeco
6) Acid House
7) Surf Music
Katajjaq (Iniut Throat Singing)
9) Viking Metal
10) Wizard Rock

I didn’t want to let this brilliance go unrecognized–, and I just want to say, I LOVE Inuit throat singing! Hahaha. Didn’t DC say he was making a Calypso record at some point? Think you can add that to the list.

I do think that Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s own songs are going to have a more Top 40-friendly feel, catchier hooks and a brighter sound, although I could be very wrong.

I would go with that too. And more melodic. Kind of like a male, grungier Kelly Clarkson.

I’m sure I’m going to win a lot of friends with THAT comparison. LOL. But to me, that’s a good thing.

@ JohnM, I think I love you, or at least I love your post… lol sorry going a little crazy, IÂ ´m learning so much…

@MJ… MJSBIGBLOG ROCKS…. thank you very much for being an awesome Mod….

I forgot to mention that David Archuleta (like DC) had original recorded work that was/is very popular with his fans. He recorded The Most Beautiful Part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfGQJMk5_9E&feature=related and Angels in the Alleyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJIOQhcd0Ls and Don’t Tell Me (he was right out of the womb w/ this one.. but you can tell he’s got some serious R&B going on).

What’s the point with the resume? Archie’s fanbase knew exactly what David was capable of and THIS is what we want from him. We want his expressive soul wrenching sound to come out at us, but we also realize that he needs to have fun and experiment along the way.

I just want to say, I LOVE Inuit throat singing!

[Super snobby mode] Tsk! Inuit throat is nothing compared to Tuvan throat singing I’m afraid.

Personally, I see that as a success in Rock. I know my standards are low, but Top 10 does it for me. I just don’t think that every artist can get to number 1.

My point had more to do with the fact that Daughtry had only 2 songs on his album out of 7 singles that had Rock success–and that was mostly on Active rock stations.

That he got played on Rock stations at all, though, was pretty impressive to me.

Considering that Daughtry’s singles, especially “Home” and “Feels Like Tonight” have become extremely successful on HAC and AC, we’ll see how well his next album does in Rock now that he’s become the King of Adult Contemporary.

Signature content: interviewing drunks at Fenway Park.

I think I won’t mention what I’m listening to on the radio right this minute. LOL.

I actually listen to both WFNX and WXRV, and compared to most commercial radio stations around the country, their playlists are pretty decent. I don’t think either will play David Cook. WXRV would be the most likely candidate…we’ll, I’ll reserve judgment until I hear the whole album.

College stations like WERS might, because College DJs for the most part can play what they want. Maybe there are some Cook fans out there amongst the College DJs.

[Super snobby mode] Tsk! Inuit throat is nothing compared to Tuvan throat singing Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m afraid.

Haha, you’re probably right that Tuvan throat singing is superior, but I always found the Inuit tradition of the women singing in pairs facing each other, while the men were away hunting, to be an incredibly endearing passtime– haha, I’m actually being totally serious. And if you like Tuvan thoat-singing (and I realize you are probably kidding), have you seen the documentary Genghis Blues? Saw it as part of a music theory course in college- fascinating stuff. Uh-oh, think we’re effectively off-topic. Um, yes, I agree that idol alums will have a tough time gaining any success in the throat-singing genre.

I asked the question about physical (hard) copies of LO, and Kristen answered that it was almost impossible to get singles these days the old-fashioned way. What about people who cannot or will not get it from itunes? Doesn’t this impact the sales of singles in a negative way? I know older people who don’t have a clue about downloading and don’t have ipods or mp3 players.

Just a-wonderin’ Anyone?

I do think that Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s own songs are going to have a more Top 40-friendly feel, catchier hooks and a brighter sound, although I could be very wrong.

I totally agree. His prior works like à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Makeoverà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The truthà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , or even some of his high school songs like à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Not Aroundà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  , would have no trouble advancing on the top 40 charts. However, he also had a lot of songs that were less top-40 friendly (eg à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Let Goà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ). My guess is that there will be a balance, which is why his record will hopefully appeal to a diverse audience.

I know people who love music à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  care a lot about it à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  who sometimes canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t even tell whether theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re hearing a piano, a synthesizer, or a guitar. Theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re not going to care à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  or even notice, possibly à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  that this section in LO uses a piano instead of some other instrumentation

That surprises me à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.. I can understand someone not telling the difference between a synthesizer and an electric guitar, but a piano is quite recognizable. Isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t that part of Keaneà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s claim to fame? Count me in as someone who definitely recognized the piano part and appreciated ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.my only issue was that it was way too brief!

“I love Daughtry and am glad he is successful, but heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s more Bon Jovi than Metallica.. which is more than okay!”

Same here, I prefer the career of BJ and their music. Would love to see Daughtry follow in their footsteps.

“I am one of those who think that TOML has damaged David Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s credibility as a rocker (ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s one of the reasons why I hated that song, apart from it being truly atrocious). LO doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really help even if it is a better song than TOML.”

I have to agree with this too.

Haha, youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re probably right that Tuvan throat singing is superior, but I always found the Inuit tradition of the women singing in pairs facing each other, while the men were away hunting, to be an incredibly endearing passtimeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ haha, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m actually being totally serious. And if you like Tuvan thoat-singing (and I realize you are probably kidding), have you seen the documentary Genghis Blues? Saw it as part of a music theory course in college- fascinating stuff.

I haven’t seen Genghis Blues actually, will have a look out for that. But I do like Tuvan throat singing, and this is one of the best of any performance (not just of throat singing) I found on YouTube -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Zx5xxQXxU

But back to David Cook, I think many fans of his, and I’m among those, who are just a little disappointed that his first song (I refuse to see TOML as his song) isn’t a progression from Billie Jean especially given that Chris Cornell is involved, rather it appears to have more in common with I Don’t Wanna Miss A Thing. The concern about sales figure is a bit excessive I think, given that it is still in the early stage (and I’m pretty sure the song will do very well in months to come), I’m more concern about the direction he is going. I don’t think however he should go back to Analog Heart, and I hope he can do something really surprising and daring.

Amusing list, Kirsten, but here’s a realistic one that reflects the resistance an Idol can expect to face from the music world, according to the musical style he/ she pursues (I’m only listing those styles that have been fatured most on Idol so far). In order from most to least resistance:

1. Rock

(Talk to any true rock music fan if you don’t believe me.)

2. Country

(Call it the “Nashville Star syndrome”. Country fans are beginning to be much more demanding of “authenticity” also. Kristy Lee Cook appears to be a casualty. Kellie Pickler apparently just got in under the wire.)

3. Pop/ R&B

(The trail has already been blazed by Kelly and others.)

Now where would the folkies/ singer-songwriter-types like Jason and Brooke fit into this list. My guess is somewhere between pop/ r&b and country. And when Idol produces a reggae or rap artist than I’ll have to figure out where to rank them as well….

tinawina- David A wrote some before AI, but he has been pairing up a lot lately writing with others. He has already recorded at least 3 of his own songs, but he says he is not sure whether any of his writing will be on the album. He doesn’t think they are all that great. His dad and close family friend say his writing is amazing. It will be interesting to see.

I do think that Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s own songs are going to have a more Top 40-friendly feel, catchier hooks and a brighter sound, although I could be very wrong.

I think he’s going even harder and edgier. As I said before, Andrew Cook’s “review” on My Fox KC came off as very pre-scripted to me, intentionally designed to communicate to the Internet fanbase that LO should be viewed as a transitory song between TOML and the music David intends to put out now.

I don’t see how crossing over from TOML via the bridge of LO takes us to the other side where the sound will be “brighter”.

I asked the question about physical (hard) copies of LO, and Kristen answered that it was almost impossible to get singles these days the old-fashioned way. What about people who cannot or will not get it from itunes? Doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t this impact the sales of singles in a negative way?

No, not really. Those CD singles probably only sold to collectors and people who mistakingly thought they were cheap albums. CD singles weren’t big sellers even before the advent of iTunes. They are expensive for what you get (generally retailing for $5 for 2 songs when you can generally pick up an album during the first week for $10 containing 12 songs) and you have to load your CD player to just play two songs. Most people do not want to swap CDs every 7.8 minutes.

The Hot Single chart still (I think, I haven’t looked for a while) tracks sales of commercial singles (which is what CD singles are) and it doesn’t take much to chart there. The number of entries on that chart varies quite a bit because they probably have some cut-off (sell fewer than 10 singles and you can’t chart). Idols dominated that chart for years because they were the only ones moving any of those units. Record stores stopped carrying CD singles a long time ago.

So, I guess it costs them a couple of hundred sales, but that’s just noise for a successful single. iTunes has revitalized the Hot 100 chart which used to be dominated by airplay because there was no significant single sales. To give you an idea, when Taylor’s coronation single came out, sales counted for twice as much as airplay (e.g. the mix was about 2/3rd sales and 1/3 airplay). Last year, sales started counting for less because they had started to dominate the Hot 100 chart (now it is 55% airplay, 40% sales and 5% streams…quite a change).

As a side note, Jordin and Blake were totally hobbled with their coronation singles for charting on the Hot 100. Competing with the sales of their singles on iTunes was the sales of EPs containing 5 of their most popular songs. Sales of EPs (extended plays) don’t contribute to the Hot 100. So, not only did they get a half week, they got cannibalized their own sales. And this is why comparing singles success between years is always so hard. There are so many special circumstances.

tinawina- David A wrote some before AI, but he has been pairing up a lot lately writing with others. He has already recorded at least 3 of his own songs, but he says he is not sure whether any of his writing will be on the album. He doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think they are all that great. His dad and close family friend say his writing is amazing. It will be interesting to see.

Oh yeah, I know! I’m actually really interested in hearing those if they end up on the album.

Layla

You don’t need an mp3 player to buy from Amazon. You can burn a cd from music in mp3 format. If the person isn’t tech savvy, then they will need to wait until the cd is available with the single.

I believe Borders has some stores where you can create your own cd’s at a kiosk. I’m not sure if other stores are doing this as well. But the technology is out there and if you really want a song, it’s not hard to get.

I don’t think the technologically challenged fan will greatly impact single sales. If the song is popular and in demand, then it will have a fair amount of fans who are tech savvy, who will in turn help those that don’t know how to download, etc.

Thanks Kirsten…good info there. I had no idea this was how things worked. I’m getting quite an education here at Mj’s.

BTW…floved the Tuvan throat singer. Will use that in the music project my kids will be working on in Feb.

I’ve emerged from lurkdom to say: Thank you, JohnM. I couldn’t agree more with everything you said.

Especially this:

I actually agree with the observation about it being jarring and jerking you around, but for a different reason. I feel ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s because ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not musically coherent / holistic (to use noctemà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s term) à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  rather, it feels to me like a checklist of pop/rock devices that were inserted to cover the bases. The guitar solo sticks out as one of these things à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s so short and buried in the mix that I feel like I can hear them in the studio saying, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Well, I guess we have to put 4 bars of guitar solo in here, because youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re supposed to have a guitar solo.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

Beyond that…I guess I just don’t enjoy being jerked around quite that much. My emotions don’t have much time to build with the abrupt transitions in the song, so it’s not as emotionally effective (to me personally) as it could have been had those transitions been lengthened. The song feels rushed, as if they tried to pack an epic emotional journey into a short, single-friendly time-frame.

Btw, none of this is Dave’s fault, and I say this as a huge DC fan, so no disrespect to him or to anyone involved with this product. I don’t know why I jumped in to say something negative about the man’s song… :doh_tb: Way to shoot him in the foot, right? I guess I just appreciated that someone echoed my sentiments. Overall, it’s no biggie. I like the song enough, but the only piece that blows me away are his vocals (not surprising, considering that’s the piece that came from him and not CC and company). I’m looking forward to his own writing on the rest of the record.

Anyway, I think the single had a good first week, especially considering the competition and the very minimal airplay. Kudos to DC. The impact dates are Monday-Tuesday, so I’ll be listening out and requesting. :cool1_tb: I know some big-market Top 40 and AC stations are just waiting for the impact date. Despite any criticisms, I think the song has “hit” written all over it, just as “Crush” did. It’ll be on the rise before we know it.

Now where would the folkies/ singer-songwriter-types like Jason and Brooke fit into this list.

Don’t forget the crooners like John Stevens from Season 3. His major label release tanked so clearly those crooners are a fussy crowd.

Or sometimes, it’s the product.

But, She Bangs dude moved a lot of units (first of his three albums sold 195K and topped the BB Independent Album Chart during it’s debut week. “She Bang” got to top 10 on iTunes and his album got to #3 on Amazon) so that crowd isn’t fussy at all. Clearly, AI needs more contestants like William Hung.

Seriously, I think our sample size is far too small to make any generalizations.

(And I think that some of the sampls are missing. By any measure, Pickler and Gracin both had successful first albums in the Country genre. I would argue that with 370K, Bucky should also be considered a success).

If you make good music, your record company gets it out there, and people like it, I think that you will have a success regardless of genre. People talk about “true” fans, but who gets to decide who the “true” fans are? If most people think Nickelback is rock and like it, isn’t it rock? “True” fans, IMO, are really just pompous a$$es. They remind me much of those “true travellers” (as opposed to “stupid tourists”) I met during my youth on the backpack circuit. Seriously, the self-identified “true travellers” were generally bigger offenders than the “stupid tourists”. As soon as somebody started waxing about being a “true traveller”, I made a quick exit before they started yelling at somebody in France for not being able to speak English or Italian (sheesh, if the “true traveller” had made the effort to learn a second language, the least that all the locals of Europe could do is ensure that they know one of those two languages. True story). All, in my opinion of course.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see how crossing over from TOML via the bridge of LO takes us the other side where the sound will be à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“brighterà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

By “brighter,” I was talking about the instrumentation, I guess. I love the guitar work in songs like “The Truth” and “Don’t Say a Word” and while the songs are mid-tempo ballad-ish, they’re not quite as “heavy” as “Light On.” I can’t see his songwriting taking a turn that direction out of the blue, and that song isn’t really “him” lyrically.

And no, I don’t long for him to re-record Analog Heart, but I think his current sound will be a more sophisticated, updated version of his old sound, rather than something resembling “Light On” or something darker and heavier. I can’t imagine David and Raine Maida sitting down together and writing something like “Light On.”

I’m really interested to hear “Quietly” that he wrote with the Dan Wilson, since I like the work that Wilson did with Jason Mraz and James Morrison. If THAT song sounds like anything like “Light On,” I’ll eat mj’s hat and Kirsten’s calculator. (If it makes the album, that is….)

I am, of course, talking out of my ass. Maybe it will be an album full of 80s throwback power ballads with Nickelbackian production values.

The song feels rushed, as if they tried to pack an epic emotional journey into a short, single-friendly time-frame.

And this quote is the ultimate illustration of “mileage varying”. As I mentioned earlier, condensing the musical journey you speak of– a journey classic rock songs in the seventies often used to take at least seven minutes to travel– into a less than four minute song– all while maintaining a fairly commercial sound– is the song’s most impressive achievement to me.

Kristen…as an American living in Europe and travelling a lot I had to laugh at your true story…how often have I witnessed just this…and Americans are not the worst offenders from the English speaking world…we have other issues:)

Cheese, what is this about this song “Quietly”…do tell is this on the record…411 please

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m really interested to hear à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Quietlyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  that he wrote with the Dan Wilson.

Count me in on this. Hope it actually makes the album.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see how crossing over from TOML via the bridge of LO takes us the other side where the sound will be à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“brighter

Noctem, I’m not feeling the bridge either, which is why I’m a little skeptical about Andrew’s comment. David has consistently tossed around names like Muse, Our Lady Peace, Imogen Heap, etc. etc. To me, these are definitely “brighter” sounds than LO. If we believe David, and not Andrew, then LO is not bridging anything. I’m inclined to think that LO was chosen as the first single because RCA hoped that the Cornell name would help David gain acceptance with the Rock crowd. I still maintain that it’s a decent song but I doubt it will be representative of the rest of the album. The fact that he wrote a song with Dan Wilson supports that…although if he can rockify ABMB, who knows what he might do with these songs.

Re: noctem

And this quote is the ultimate illustration of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“mileage varyingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . As I mentioned earlier, condensing the musical journey you speak ofà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ a journey classic rock songs in the seventies often used to take at least seven minutes to travelà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ into a less than four minute songà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ all while maintaining a fairly commercial soundà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ is the songà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s most impressive achievement to me.

Yes, definitely varying mileage here, and that’s only to be expected. :wink1_tb: I see what you’re saying, and I’m glad the song is effective for you. Unfortunately, the condensation didn’t work for me, but left something to be desired. I didn’t feel that the arrangement of the song most effectively navigated the potential emotional journey in the lyrics. I would have actually preferred a seven-minute song in this case…but that’s just me, and we certainly weren’t going to get that! :surrender_tb:

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see how crossing over from TOML via the bridge of LO takes us to the other side where the sound will be à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“brighterà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

Good point. If the album is going for a bright poppy sound, then IMO that would be closer to ToML (don’t shoot me) than LO.

Of course I could never predict what the hell he would do even in the confines of AI themes (remember this is the guy who chose Hungry Like The Wolf while also throwing out All Along The Watchtower as an option for the ersatz Rock week), so eh…surprise me David Cook!

I was just on the AI board and there’s a google ad for the single with a link to download it off iTunes. This was the first time I’ve seen one for LO. The one here has been for the pre-order.

I also learned there Radio Disney is giving LO some spins. Now I listen to a lot of Radio Disney and that’s a weird fit I think.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m inclined to think that LO was chosen as the first single because RCA hoped that the Cornell name would help David gain acceptance with the Rock crowd.

I always believed this and if it was true I wouldn’t expect Andrew to say it. To be honest I never thought his comments made much sense because I think LO is about as far as you can get from TOML so I don’t see how it can bridge any gap. I also don’t believe his comments are an indicator of what the album will sound like.

I’m just getting around to reading this… lol

Mj, WAAF doesn’t play Daughtry? Coulda swore they did.. but who knows. I used to listen to that station all the tie before idol this season..lol They probably wont play Cook.

I think the album will be eclectic. When I say it’s going to be harder and edgier, I don’t mean that it will be LO plus eleven Godsmack songs. But, I think Cook is bound and determined to try to become a commercial success while keeping as much of his own sense of his artistic identity in tact as he’s able to.

I wish him luck. But, I think he’s biting off an awful lot.

Because I’ve never met a horse that I won’t beat to death, let me suggest how LO could have been changed to have more mainstream appeal. In a single sentence: lose the bridge.

It’s the 80s-style bridge that breaks up the song, and seems to create a dischordant effect for some listeners. If you lost the bridge and just went from the second chorus to Neil’s guitar solo to the quiet first half chorus and the loudest back half chorus– well, THAT would be a typical modern rock power ballad, and you would hear songs just like it ten times a day or more.

Am I suggesting that the 80s bridge makes or defines LO? No, it’s the composite effect of all the song’s transitions together. But, remove the bridge in the middle of those transitions and the overall effect which appears to give some people audio whiplash would be gone. The song would be more accessible, I think, and ultimately do better, at least as an individual single.

The signal LO, with its purposeful intricacies, sends to me is that David is trying to make it in pop-rock, but be as intentionally non-pop as he can in the process, whenever he can get away with it (while obviously having to stay within certain parameters). If the message sent by LO signifies the working theory behind his record, then as I said, good luck to him.

Re: noctem

Because Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve never met a horse that I wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t beat to death, let me suggest how LO could have been changed to have more mainstream appeal. In a single sentence: lose the bridge.

The bridge is actually my favorite part! Wish it were longer (that and the guitar solo). LOL! Would ditching it make it more mainstream? Maybe. If so, I just don’t have mainstream tastes because canning it would be a huge downgrade in my book and wouldn’t solve the whiplash problem. For me at least, the whiplash comes from abrupt transitions throughout the song, most of which would still exist with or without the bridge.

I wouldn’t want to remove anything from the song…I know there’s a lot in there, but I like the elements. I just feel that they should add up to a longer song to be most effective. That is, I think some parts could be better appreciated if they had more time to marinate before the next section. So I’d add length to a few places, rather than subtract a whole section.

Again, I’m not the mainstream audience, and I doubt the mainstream audience wants a longer song, but that’s my highly subjective view. :tongue1_tb:

Mj, WAAF doesn’t play Daughtry?

At one point, I was curious, and i looked it up on mediabase. I searched by song, and could not find WAAF listed anywhere. And this was during the height of popularity of one of Daughtry’s rock songs.

Maybe that’s changed since I did the search. Out of all the Boston stations (well, actually WAAF is technically out of Worcester, but they’ve recently increased their transmission) WAAF would be the most likely to play Daughtry, because they are an Active rock station. Like I said, they play Nickleback and Hinder.

My point had more to do with the fact that Daughtry had only 2 songs on his album out of 7 singles that had Rock successà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’and that was mostly on Active rock stations.

INO charted #5 on mainstream rock and #17 on alt. rock, along with #3 on Top40. WIW charted top 10 in both mainstream and active rock — even Crashed managed a #24 on mainstream. Those were the only singles released to rock radio.

Chris is featured in a Sevendust single that’s charting in rock. He has co-written tracks on both Theory of a Deadman and 12 Stones current CDs. While he’s not a raging success in the rock world, he’s not entirely lacking in “cred”.

Why do I like David Cook? Emotional connection! I think this is the number one reason. This thread has really made me think about this.

I am not a huge fan of either TOML or LO. Okay, LO has most certainly grown on me. AND, I believe this is a great transition song. Why? 1) Because just like TOML it truly has an inspirational bent to it.

Case in point:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isOoEmKZiEc

2) LO is more rock than TOML(transition point). This is supposed to be a rock record.

But why does the fact that it’s supposed to be a rock record matter, since it sounds as if rock stations will snub it even if it is? (Kinda random question/comment.) I also want to add, that I’m very partial to rock, esp., early rock, but I’m loving a lot of Alt. rock these days as well.

I’m looking for good, original music from DC regardless of what station it’s played on. Hopefully this will include a couple of good singles which will lead to a future career. (BTW, I am going to buy the entire the album, regardless.)

I hope the link works. It’s been posted on mj’s previously, so credit for putting it here is not mine.

I don’t like ketchup, so I’ll just take “cheese” with the dog food if needed.

Oh, and the poster who said expectations from DC are high due to his pre-idol music (which I love), as well as what he did on Idol, (which I love)—remember for me it’s all about emotional connection—IMHO, NAIL. ON HEAD. DIRECT HIT

But why does the fact that ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s supposed to be a rock record matter, since it sounds as if rock stations will snub it even if it is? (Kinda random question/comment.) I also want to add, that Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m very partial to rock, esp., early rock, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m loving a lot of Alt. rock these days as well.

Wel there’s rock and there’s “rock”, ya know? Case in point…. I don’t think rock stations play Pink, but she’s widely considered a rocker anyway. Ditto most of the rock acts you hear on the radio. David may not be considered “rock” to purists (at least right away). but he will be considered rock to everyone else.

^^^^Thanks tinawina, Gotcha!

Just listened to LO again. I hear Scorpions, Eagles, Aerosmith in there. Not bad since I like them all. The only thing that distinguish this song is DC’s voice. LO is pop rock I think, or something between pop rock and hard rock, but what do I know.

There’s a really funny lovely article in Blender magazine’s November issue, with great photos of DC from back in his bartending days. I think the article was done a couple of months ago but just now appearing. It’s from an angle that squeezes out a lot of the AI bullshit and focuses o him as a person. love it! Read about it on DCO.

I hope MJ can put it up here in news/Headlines. Was quite enjoyable with my morning coffee!!!

Fangirly part: I.just.love.him.

If you make good music, your record company gets it out there, and people like it, I think that you will have a success regardless of genre.

I respectfully disagree with this assessment. I think it all boils down to how much the music in question “gets out there”. When John Legend, Ray LaMontagne, Adele, Gavin Rossdale and The White Stripes can move as many units as T.I., Chris Brown, Rihanna, Jesse McCartney and Nickelback, then I will believe that talent trumps all. Unfortunately, “artists” with manufactured, robotic, LCD youth-oriented appeal (talent optional) are what are shoved down throats for mass consumption and, thus, tend to move units. Every 10 years or so, historically speaking (for as much as one can speak historically regarding “popular” music), there seems to be an onslaught of legitimately original talent. But it has been 12 years since the Spice Girls dethroned rock, and I’m still waiting for a resurgence of something worth listening to (without having to scour the underground to find it).

As for LO, I have been confused by the choice for a single from Day 1. It doesn’t sound like a first single (although attempting to move from rainbows to rock could account for that). It is musically solid, vocally spot-on, and yet somehow all over the map. It is too “screamy” for Top 40, too “poppy” for rock and too “loud” for AC. That leaves HAC as its most viable radio option (and that format, as well as AC, doesn’t exactly have a stellar track record for generating sales of singles OR albums). Given the general media goodwill towards Cook following his win and the unfathomable Rainbow Resiliency, as well as the addition of Rob Cavallo (and all of his awesomeness) as producer, I really thought that 19/RCA was not going to bury this guy. The “just throw something out there half-heartedly” approach to LO has been a wake up call.

I am curious as to how much of a hit DC’s promo budget will take in light of mediocre opening sales, rapid free fall on itunes after the front page ads were removed, media backlash or indifference and radio rejection. I would not want to be Cookie during promo time. After the public makes it clear that they have no interest in you anymore, it seems rather pointless. But, since Archie’s album will already be available, perhaps they will be more tolerant. At this point, I think it is inevitable that RCA will drop him (the only question is how long will they keep him after the obligatory album release). I wonder if this will have any impact on Simon Fuller. He attached his name (not just his minions) to DC and he isn’t exactly known for managing flops. When they can’t (or don’t care to) figure out how to make a success out of someone as talented (and marketable) as David Cook, IMO, it’s time to step back and re-evaluate the machine. I only hope that he continues to make music after 19/RCA/AI has officially “cut their losses”. As much as I like LO and am looking forward to his album, I have a feeling that the music afterward would be well worth searching for.

I don’t see TOML’s success as a hindrance to David’s future success. The common opinion here is that David is not going to get “rock cred” as it is so the Rainbows are doing no harm in that department. I don’t see how a nearly platinum song and seemingly never ending radio play for a song attached to one’s name is a bad thing. TOML has obviously found an audience and market outside of the Idol fanbase. Perhaps those people will not be interested in the new direction of David’s music, but thats true for any people who are a part of this giant “expectations” machine I talked about previously.

I took Andrew’s bridge comments about LO not so much as a style of song but more of the commercial nature of it. I think his point was this, TOML is the most commercial song on the planet and LO will be just commercial enough to get radio play but also show the direction David’s music is going in. I could be absolutely wrong but thats what I took the comment to mean. I expect a handful of other radio possible songs on David’s album but also some departures from anything commercial sounding. I agree with noctem on the darker and edgier prediction but also do expect some slower songs as well and show off some amazing vocals. I’m also interested to see if David’s own more alternative tastes show up on the album although he’s never quite made music in that sound yet. Just my guesses, we’ll see.

I see LO’s appeal a different way than posted above: hook-y enough for pop, melodic enough for Hot AC/AC and possibly dark enough for rock.

…but when have true artists/musicians/singersongwriters been staple fair of the top 40? Yes, there are historically some exceptions to this, notably in the 70′s: James Taylor, Carole King, Carly Simon, Dave Mason, Elton John/Bernie Taupin…just to namer a few individuals.

In my opinion we can complain about people being sheeple ( or lemmings-take your pick) and going with the flow- or we can look at it in the way that people buy pop music because they actually like it and it makes them feel good.

I believe that many talented artist do not become mainstream. I also believe that most of them are so into the music that they are quite happy to be making a living from it and performing in non-arena venues.

As I said before, I actually think DC would be happy to be one of those people, although RCA may have other plans for him considering he is the AI Winner…a stigma true enough, but hopefully his own music will distance him from that.

Ok, I just have to come out and say this — tigervixxxen, I love your posts! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! Please continue to do so.

Hey MJ…awake yet? Just wonderin’ if you have seen the Blender article.

Hey, there’s no way DC is going to flop. It’s much much too early to tell. RCA won’t let him flop. They just can’t afford that to happen. The AI reputation depends on it so they will dig up all the funds they have to make sure DC is successful. I think LO will be successful in AC, and even pop and rock, who knows? I think it will pick up with more airplay. Takes several listens to like it, so it will be slow but it will be at least be a decent hit, and there’s the album which I am sure will have more likable songs. He is going to be successful.

I personally could never call any musician a flop if their first commercial album hasn’t even been released yet.

I personally could never call any musician a flop if their first commercial album hasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t even been released yet.

Precisely!

When John Legend, Ray LaMontagne, Adele, Gavin Rossdale and The White Stripes can move as many units as T.I., Chris Brown, Rihanna, Jesse McCartney and Nickelback, then I will believe that talent trumps all.

Since when is moving units the only barometer of success, or talent. I love Ray LaMongtagne, he’s an incredible singer/songwriter. I don’t know many people that sing the way he does. But I also know that more folk like to eat a hamburger for lunch instead of talapia. Some stuff just appeals to the masses, and some things have a less broad appeal but are just as appreciated by the folks who love it. Doesn’t make it any less in the food chain, just a little less known.

I don’t know if Cook is going to flop. It really doesn’t look like it. I didn’t like the song, didn’t buy the song, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t purchase the cd when it comes out. I think there will be some hamburger on it as well as talapia.

The bridge is actually my favorite part!

Deejay, I like the bridge a lot too– now. When I first heard it, though, I was like “is he trying to sound like Mr. Big? Or Damn Yankees? Or Nelson?”

(Side note: I think I understand now why Andy has been brought on board. It’s certainly not for his musicianship. I expect he’ll be a second rhythm guitar player– David will obviously be the other one. But Andy is in, I’m presuming for backing vocals. And I think it will be fun to hear to David and he harmonize the shit out of that overwrought bridge– especially the “YEAAHHHHHH” at the end of it)….

Back to the original point, I also agree that the song would lose a lot its (relative) complexity with the subtraction of the bridge. I just think dropping it would make it more mainstream and contemporarily commercial.

Let me tack on a final rant– it irritates me to no end that no “professional critic” yet has made note of the classic/ arena rock influences in LO and has just just compared it to the usual suspects. Love the song, hate the song– whatever– I don’t care. But, you’re paid for what you do, and you’re supposed to be able to write an informed, competent review. Even at VFTW, where they obviously shredded the song mercilessly– they were saying that it sounded like it could have been a Whitesnake tune.

Actually, sherryw, I seem to recall that you’ve been predicting that RCA would not support DC since about July. I have never agreed with that assessment at all. I think that RCA chose a single which it thought would increase his credibility with the industry and that they could use as part of a campaign to increase buzz for him as an artist with a debut CD coming out in six weeks. There is lots of press on tap, with the Blender article being just the start. Radio adds start next week, and a lot of people who have made requests at various stations have been told that the stations intend to add him on the add dates. Once it’s on the radio, sales will likely go up.

All in all, I think that DC will do well. He’s got everything that he needs to succeed: great fundamentals and rocking collaborators to help him create an excellent record; good friends and relatives to keep him grounded; and great fans and record support to generate sales of the record.

After the public makes it clear that they have no interest in you anymore, it seems rather pointless. But, since Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album will already be available, perhaps they will be more tolerant. At this point, I think it is inevitable that RCA will drop him (the only question is how long will they keep him after the obligatory album release).

And this is based on….? Just curious as I think it is really extreme, and would like to know what your argument as this is an interesting point of view.

sherryw, they are going to push the hell out of David Cook. 19M doesn’t even manage Archie, they have no one else to concentrate their efforts on but Cook, and if you don’t think they will do just that you are in for a huuuuugggeee surprise, IMO. They damn sure ain’t gonna spend the cash on Kristy Lee. That franchise needs a hit winner, and they are going to make sure they get one.

Wow, there’s alot going on in this thread. A little early to call someone a flop though. Doesn’t Cook still have the #1 song on the AC chart? Anyway, I don’t know enough about music to give an in depth analysis nor do I really follow rock music today. I just listen to AC/HAC/Top 40 radio so I do have a sense of what radio will play.

Gut feeling: LO is too generic, too 80s to be a big hit. (Shrug) However, that doesn’t meant there isn’t better music on the album. TOML was a big hit so I think RCA would be insane not to support Cook 100%. I just think expectations for a commercial blockbuster, musical masterpiece, etc. are way over the top. Ditto on the predictions for failure, etc.

That’s the point I’ve been trying to make about reviews…where is there a decent wellwritten, knowledgeable review…I DON*T mean blogs are biased AI “Journalism”.

I keep reading backlash and bad media…I haven’t seen it.

While RCA will support Cook, they can’t actually make him a hit. But in general, the media always been pretty supportive of him so I don’t expect much bad media.

While RCA will support Cook, they canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t actually make him a hit.

Yeah I know, I was engaging in a little exaggeration to make a point – that 19E will do everything they can to get a hit for their hugely commercial, very popular winner. He’s getting the Carrie push. Now if it doesn’t work it doesn’t work, but there is no way they would give up over LOs 1st week sales numbers, which are actually pretty good. That’s all.

I keep reading backlash and bad mediaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦I havenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t seen it.

Ask, and ye shall receive. :wink_wp:

If it’s out there, it’ll turn up soon enough.

Calling DC a flop is premature. He didn’t even start promoting it. It’s the record sales that will paint a good picture. I’m giving DC and RCA my full support and faith until I see evidence to the contrary.

I think David will surprise all the naysayers and put out a better album than even the fans are expecting, and it will be received by the critics as a great first achievement record. I’m optimistic that way.

David will apparently be interviewed on WBMX (Mix 98.5) in Boston on Tuesday 10/14 (per a poster at DC.org who recieved an e-mail from the morning DJ). I suspect (i.e. HOPE) that there will probably be many other radio interviews next week coinciding with the impact date.

I really don’t think RCA is going to back off of supporting David based on his first week sales, and they certainly didn’t going into this whole thing planning on doing a half-assed job with the first marketable male AI winner. If the video for “Light On” is made with a $200 point and shoot camcorder and a strobe light, I reserve my right to change my mind.

Summer, 2007. A spare room (rent slightly behind hand) in Tulsa.

A ghost appears to a sleeping musician.

David Cook, I have some terrible news for you.

You are about to audition for American Idol . . . and get in.

During the course of the show, they will start for the first time ever selling digital recordings of what the performers during the show.

Yours will sell like buttery hotcakes, making you the first contestant ever to have multiple chart hits before the confetti even stops falling. BTW, after you cut your hair, lose ten pounds, and clean up a bit, you will look *so* cute!

Then you’ll win, by 12 million votes.

But your suffering will not end there! No!

A host of loving media stops await you, and you and your pals will tour America for highly profitable tour, despite the recession.

Meanwhile, your victory single will go gold, head for platinum, get played as part of the Olympics, and top the AC charts. It will stay so long they will do that thing where they have to move it to the “recurring hits” after 20 weeks.

You will sit down to record your album with a famous producers and a host of acclaimed songwriters.

Two of your best buds will join your band.

You will release a first single co-written by Chris f*ckin’ Cornell that sells 109,000 units in the first week without any radio play.

As you can see, you are SO DOOMED! DOOOOOOOOOOOMED, I tell you.

Ghost vanishes in a flash of lightening and a cackle.

Cook awakens, screaming.

David will apparently be interviewed on WBMX (Mix 98.5) in Boston on Tuesday 10/14 (per a poster at DC.org who recieved an e-mail from the morning DJ). I suspect (i.e. HOPE) that there will probably be many other radio interviews next week coinciding with the impact date.

Mix 98 loves them some Idols. At the moment, there are 5 Idol songs on the stations Top 20, and Jordin Sparks is one of the headlining acts for this weekend’s Mixfest.

Also, they played the crap out of Chris Daughtry’s “Wanted Dead Or Alive”, from the Season 5 Idols CD after the season was over.

Maturin!!!!! OMFG!!!! That is so fuckin’ funny! I am rollin’ here.

Yeps…*roll eyes* he’s just doomed, I tell ya doomed! LOLOLOLOLOL

Ask, and ye shall receive.

If ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s out there, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll turn up soon enough.

Ya think? Well I don’t count the AI bubble world.

Ok, ok, mj. So maybe David will have just the one radio interview with the weird Idol-centric station.

maturin, that was awesome.

RCA knows that people expect that DC will be a commercial success, based on what people were able to figure out about the itunes sales during the show and based on ToML’s success. If DC succeeds, RCA looks good, but RCA has to know that it will get a hefty amount of blame if DC does not succeed. RCA will get no credit for any success that DA gets—he’s on a different label.

Ultimately, in a paraphrase of one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite shows: “If you can’t make money on David Cook, you should get out of the money-making business.”

Lol maturin I love that reply. Cook is far from doomed lol. His song hasnt even hit the impact date for goodness sakes. Hes far from a flop. I think we need to look back at these posts in a few weeks and laugh. When his video comes out and he does some media, Light On will soar up the charts. But, this is only my opinion) I have been listening alot online to radio stations, and when the dj’s play it, they have nothing but great and encouraging words to say about Light On. Most say how much it is being requested and how it will be a big hit. I guess only time will tell though, right? Ps. I love the song, does that count?

Maturin, you rock….

:lol_tb: :laugh_tb: :clap_tb: @ maturin!!!!!

Ok, ok, mj. So maybe David will have just the one radio interview with the weird Idol-centric station.

I don’t know Cheese, maybe there will be more…I’m just not at all surprised that Mix 98 is first. .

Sherryw- I guess I have been influenced too much by DA’s optimism and happiness to think Cook is going to be a total flop before his album even comes out.

Also, maybe Cook is the one who chose this song. I recall how many of his fans hated TOML, but when they found out more about it’s meaning, they began to love it. Once Cook gets out there singing it and talking about it, I just bet more people will come on board. As we say at my house, “Patience Iago”! (From the Disney movie Aladin).

It is too early to call Cook a flop. However, the song is dropping really fast. Other new releases from last week are still in top 20. Cook’s song is in danger of out of top 50. Any idea why this is happening? Should more emails be sent, more Google ads be displayed?

By the way you can see RCA is going all out for Cook in promotion, no matter the result is satisfactory or disappointing.

daniely it’s to be expected, since the song isn’t getting much radio play yet. Expect it to start climbing back up after the Monday/Tuesday radio impact date.

Maturin…I’m packing a bag going away for the weekend with Mr Layla (berlin…yeah!) and I’m still laughing.

That was AWESOME!!!!!

maturin, I love you!

You mentioned something important in your wonderful list of Dreadful Things That Doom David, but I don’t know if anybody has made this announcement that LadyMadonna made over at DCO. I’m quoting her here:

Drumroll please……

After a record-breaking 20 weeks on the Billboard Hot 100, the rainbow ends its magical run at #53, before being retired to the recurrent chart next week. Insanity!!

This is amazing. What that means is that TOML was on the Billboard Hot 100 longer than any other Idol coronation song has ever been. He lasted one week longer than Kelly, who was no slouch, herself, and he might even have lasted longer, except for that “recurrent” rule that forces a song off after 20 weeks. Rainbows forevah!

If this was already announced and I missed it, I apologize!

Dont you think its normal for the song to drop on itunes? It hasnt even reached its impact date yet. I hear all those other songs on the radio. My radio stations said they cant start playing it till the impact date.

Most of my stations didn’t even play TOML until 3 weeks or 4 after the final. Now look at it, its still hanging on and almost platinum. Why don’t we all give the song a chance to hit the airwaves before all the doom and gloom.

The drop of Cook’s song is abnormal. First, the other new releases from last week are still in top 20. Second, it is dropping too fast. It took Crush one week to drop out of top 10, and another week to drop to 24 before it went back up. Crush didn’t go for radio add until three weeks after it topped digital sales, a similar situation with Cook’s song.

This is amazing. What that means is that TOML was on the Billboard Hot 100 longer than any other Idol coronation song has ever been. He lasted one week longer than Kelly, who was no slouch, herself, and he might even have lasted longer, except for that à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“recurrentà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  rule that forces a song off after 20 weeks. Rainbows forevah!

Pretty cool!

Should more emails be sent, more Google ads be displayed?

I personally think no. The song just needs radio play. It’s my contention that such emails and Google ads in general seem to be targeted to fan-club types or the Idolsphere– i.e. people who know all about the single, and would have already bought it by now if they like it. But the rest of the world– a respectable chunk of which liked and supported DC on Idol but have largely forgotten about him already (sad, but true), they don’t know about LO, and the only way- nee, the best way for them to learn about LO is through the radio. The world needs to hear the song through the damn radio to do it justice (it sounds awesome blasting thru the car radio), and they need to hear it often, to get a chance to embrace it. I’ve really enjoyed the discussions of LO’s musical structure, etc. here– and though I like the song, I agree with those who said it was initially a bit jarring, etc. Despite my earlier fears of LO’s sound not fitting into Top40, I firmly believe that the public will embrace LO if radio gives it a chance. Oh, and my dream is to have it show up in some TV promo or something.

Case in point– I had initially hated Jordin’s No Air because I’m a lyrics person, and I thought the lyrics (like for Tattoo) were ridiculous and immature, but after hearing it non-stop on the radio, seeing some live performances, and that awesome routine on SYTTCD, I realized how good the song’s melody and beat are, and I don’t even hear the parts of the lyrics that I don’t like.

Yeah for the Little rainbow that Could! :clap_tb:

I cannot wait to see him perform “Light On” live. I think that could have quite an impact. I liked Magic Rainbow a little better after seeing him perform it on Leno.

Dear David Cook,

Please give me something else to obsess about.

Thanks,

Gwen

Just from a math point of view, I’m afraid the comparison with the behavior of one single from a different genre over the course of one and a half weeks doesn’t give enough evidence to day “normal” versus “abnormal.” One would need, at a minimum, a range of sales info for rock single versus pop singles vs rap and R&B, stretching over several months, to parse out what are the average behaviors of top charting single downloads and what are the high and low clusters.

There’s really only going to be one accurate way to calculate how well the song does, and that will be to look at the actual facts over several months.

We do know that TOML and Daughtry’s first single took time to build up to eventual smashing success.

All those presold albums on Amazon must feel a little comforting for team Cook while they wait.

This grasshopper is going to be patient. I think LO will prove itself over time, just as David did, and just as TOML has done. That seems to be the pattern with this particular singer and his songs. First there’s, “Who is this dbag?” or “What is this dbag song?” Then there’s, “Maybe he’s all right, but WTF is he doing now?” or “Maybe the song’s okay, but WTF is RCA doing now?” Then there’s there, “Omg, I love him!” or “Omg, I love this song.”

Grasshopper hops off to ravage crops while she waits.

Sma11ie- I watched SYTYCD for the first time this year, and yes, that No Air routine was amazing. It made you love the song and I am assuming it made it rise in sales. If you haven’t seen it, check it out here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrw2VSvHG8o Check out that move at 50 seconds. Wow. I love Joshua and Katie.

TOML was also used on that show and brought it sales. DA’s imagine was used, but of course, it wasn’t for sale. The exposure of his voice and name was good though, and they are using that “imagine” routine on their tour.

The drop of Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song is abnormal. First, the other new releases from last week are still in top 20. Second, it is dropping too fast. It took Crush one week to drop out of top 10, and another week to drop to 24 before it went back up. Crush didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t go for radio add until three weeks after it topped digital sales, a similar situation with Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song.

The other new releases are all on the radio.

Archie was in rotation at Z-100 (top radio station in the country) and consquently had been picked up in a few markets BEFORE the song hit ITunes. The number of spins for Crush were not much higher, but the number of audience impressions were. After it debuted at #2 it got some nice high profile press and more stations added it. LO, on the other hand, had a highly trafficked debut on AOL, but has not had much exposure beyond. So, it stands to reason that almost everyone who heard LO on Popeater and liked it brought in during the first week, and now there are not too many additional people becoming exposed to the song. To get steady sales, you need continuous exposure to potential customers, and this is not happening yet for LO. Most stations are waiting until next week to start playing the record.

If it doesn’t go up once it starts getting exposure, then he’s in trouble. But right now, he’s doing fine.

The drop of Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song is abnormal. First, the other new releases from last week are still in top 20. Second, it is dropping too fast. It took Crush one week to drop out of top 10, and another week to drop to 24 before it went back up. Crush didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t go for radio add until three weeks after it topped digital sales, a similar situation with Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song.

Not really. From stats that someone else posted a while back, Crush had seven times the radio impression that LO had when it dropped. (I believe Crush’s numbers were 7.5 million or in that vicinity. Even now, a week and a half after its debut, LO (at last check) was sitting at around 1.9 million.

Obviously, the dedicated fans bought the song to the tune of almost 110,00 last week. But, now that he’s run through that base, he needs new customers. That will happen when people start hearing the song.

I do somewhat, as I elaborated before, share the concern of Sherry– only without the need for powerful medication– that LO may be a bit of an “in-between format” song, and that may slow radio growth for a while. But, I do think it will eventually find it’s niche.

Should more emails be sent, more Google ads be displayed?

I am still stumped as to why they haven’t done the myspace email blast, but I presume they have at least thought of the idea and have decided against it, at least for now. As for the Google ads– no. I think RCA is wasting its money here (just as they did with the pre-impact date Mediabase ad ). Artists’ music is what moves albums and singles. If the buying public is unfamiliar with the music at this point, then they’re not going to make a purchasing decision based on simply seeing a banner.

Archie’s Z100 premiere definitely helped him a lot – he was already climbing the airplay charts when the single was released to iTunes. He was also added to the XM channels before his add date (I’m assuming that the CHR and HAC stations on XM have fairly large audience impressions). “Light On” is currently being played primarily in pretty small markets.

I always expected “Crush” to be a bigger hit than any single Cook ever puts out because of the genre. Jordin had huge singles, Archie’s song sounds like a Jordin song, Archie is more popular/considered more talented than Jordin – connect the dots and you get big radio hits for Archie. I’m not going to panic if Cook can’t match his single sales and airplay.

There’s nothing magical about the official adds date. Stations often begin playing songs before the date so I’m not expecting scores of stations to add LO next week. In general pop singles do better than rock singles but the LO decline on iTunes is kind of steep. I just have felt from the first that LO didn’t scream big hit. JMHO and I’ll be happy to be proven wrong in a month or so. And if it doesn’t hit big, hopefully there’s better stuff on the album that does excite the big Cook fanbase plus new fans.

Eh, jpfan. I guess we’ll see. All I’m saying that the steep decline is consistent with a song that has not had too much exposure outside AOL Popeater. I’m not saying it will be a massive hit either, but it shouldn’t be an epic flop IMO. Stations have had many new big releases to contend with lately so I can see not a lot of extra spaces for new songs on the playlist in advance to the drop date. After next week things should pick up again.

I always expected à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  to be a bigger hit than any single Cook ever puts out because of the genre. Jordin had huge singles, Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song sounds like a Jordin song, Archie is more popular/considered more talented than Jordin – connect the dots and you get big radio hits for Archie. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not going to panic if Cook canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t match his single sales and airplay.

Also, let’s not overstate how well Crush is doing. It’s a moderate, mid-charting hit. It bowed at #2, but by the next week it fell to #15. After falling into the low thirties at one point, it climbed back to #15 a couple weeks ago. But, last week it was at #20 and this week #25.

Now don’t read me the wrong way. It’s a very solid beginning for Archie, and I’m sure both he and Jive are extremely pleased and he’s well on his way to establishing a successful music career. And Crush has for a while consistently stayed between 10 – 20 on Itunes, and is virtually guaranteed to go platinum. So congratulations to David.

But, he’s not hanging up there with the current monsters yet, like Pink, Rihanna, Katy Perry etc. Of course, it’s hard for any new artist to do this, much less an Idol. But, Kelly and Daughtry have done it, as has Leona Lewis.

In general pop singles do better than rock singles but the LO decline on iTunes is kind of steep. I just have felt from the first that LO didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t scream big hit.

Give it time.

Thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s nothing magical about the official adds date.

Exactly– I think the low number of spins now is already indicative of the fact that radio might be slow to pick up LO, even after the impact date. I believe the rapid iTunes drop is totall attributable to the dreadfully low audience impression numbers. I agree with Noctem, that LO’s format “may slow radio growth for a while” (emphasis mine). But ultimately, I think it will get there. I’m just bracing myself for a slow climb rather than expecting a miracle come 10/13 or 14.

Lastly, shout-out to Spritely on a fantastic recap of DC’s progression:

First thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Who is this dbag?à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  or à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“What is this dbag song?à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  Then thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Maybe heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s all right, but WTF is he doing now?à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  or à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Maybe the songà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s okay, but WTF is RCA doing now?à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  Then thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s there, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Omg, I love him!à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  or à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Omg, I love this song.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

Conclusion? Key word I’m repeating to myself here is patience.

ETA: I honestly don’t think folks here are overstating how Crush is doing. It may be a “moderate, mid-charting hit” compared to the biggest stars, but Crush is Archies first single, and it’s doing amazingly well for all the reasons you listed. What happened to Leona right out of the gate is pretty rare.

There is another important point other then radio play and that is promotion. At the moment there are a lot of people, who donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know that there is a new David Cook song out there.
Imo it is a very smart move form RCA to not to go for a promotion here and a promotion there.
I expect them to do promotion with a very concentrated timetable. That way the impact will be much bigger.

sma11ie- I am fairly new to this, so forgive me for asking. What are audience impression numbers and how are they determined?

noctum- Again, I don’t know the history. You said:

“heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s (DA) not hanging up there with the current monsters yet, like Pink, Rihanna, Katy Perry etc. Of course, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s hard for any new artist to do this, much less an Idol. But, Kelly and Daughtry have done it, as has Leona Lewis.”

Do you mean on the top 100 on billboard? Did Kelly, Daughtry and Leona Lewis do that on their first song? Just curious.

If someone knows how to do BOLD on here, please let me know.

Also, letà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not overstate how well Crush is doing.

Crush is doing very well considering it officially “impacted” the first week in September and Archie has yet to perform it on TV, etc. Even if it’s not moving a lot right now, I suspect that will change when the album drops and Archie’s cute little Archie face is everywhere.

My perception might be a little bit skewed because I heard Crush on 4 or 5 different XM stations in the span of about 10 minutes last night (along with OSAAT, So What and Better in Time). I’m tired of Crush already but I expect to hear even more of it in the coming months. (It doesn’t send me sprinting to the dial to change stations yet like Jordin’s current single does, but that should happen soon). I think I should just go back to my regular XM stations until I hear reports that LO is being played. I’d like to hear it on the radio at least once.

What are audience impression numbers and how are they determined?

Oh dear, this is what I get for picking up the lingo here and using it to sound smart! This hopeless attempt at explaining will surely reveal me to be a charlatan here, so hopefully pros like soundscene or Kirsten would jump in if I’m embarrassing myself. From what I understand, audience impression numbers are calculated based on number of spins on the radio, and the size of the audience reached per spin depends on the format and the size of the market. A Top40 spin in a major market like the NYC area (i.e. Z100) has huge audience impression numbers compared to an AC spin in Podunk USA. I wish I could provide some actual numbers to illustrate this better, but alas, I only learned all this recently, and don’t have the numbers at my disposal.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m tired of Crush already but I expect to hear even more of it in the coming months.

I live in a major market and my Top40 station is spinning Crush very sparsely. One Step at A Time, on the other hand, is always playing, and I seriously cannot race for the radio dial fast enough when that song plays. And I like Jordin!

It may be a à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“moderate, mid-charting hità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  compared to the biggest stars, but Crush is Archies first single, and ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s doing amazingly well for all the reasons you listed.

Totally agree. It’s done exactly what it needed to for him. It proved he CAN make it in the world of pop/ top 40 and has a sound that will sell. On top of that, it is true that the song has had a decent amount of success individually.

But, I’ve said for a while that I don’t think Crush will be the defining single of his first album. I think he will have a bigger hit.

I don’t have any means by which to prove this, but I think many artists choose not to release their “best song” first. And regardless of song quality, a standard practice seems to be to come out intitally with an upbeat track.

On one level this makes Cook’s selection of a power ballad surprising. But, he was kind of forced into a box because of TOML. It would have been difficult to come straight out with something sounding like the Foos after TOML, or even, say, Jimmy Eat World. Hence, all the talking points about LO being a “bridge”.

The problem is I think some are in fact expecting a huge surge once the impact date hits, at least that’s my take after taking a look at the DCO forum. I can believe that some stations who are strict about waiting for that date may play it but at the same time there are a lot of stations who don’t give a damn and will play something as soon as they hear it. It’s hard to base much on what DJ’s say if you call a certain station because if it’s one thing I learned – they will lie. Sometimes they will be honest but sometimes they’ll throw anything out to make fans happy. It’s quite possible this really was the wrong single and some program directors aren’t feeling it. It happens. Even people like Mariah Carey will sometimes choose the wrong single and it underperforms.

I see he gets another honking big Mediabase ad. “Call Em IN NOW!!” What the hell does that mean? I hope RCA isn’t shooting their wad on these ads. And Will Archie get another one next week so they can just keep switching off? lol

I would appreciate if someone would answer a couple of questions I had in my post above.

Trina- DA’s fans kind of had that same expectation- that DJ’s would just automatically play Crush on impact date, but it just didn’t happen that way. It has been very slow getting them to pick it up. Many still refuse to play it and DJ’s lieing is VERY annoying. They should just be honest and say they aren’t going to play it IMO.

Hopefully someone will let Cook’s fans know that it is not automatic on impact day. If it happens, it will be great, but they can’t count on it.

Z100 hasn’t played crush for the good music it is, they have been payed to do it.
As will RCA pay stations next week to play LO.
Other will play it because they like it, other don’t.
I think nobody expect to go from no spins to a high number of spins.

ETA: It came out a little bit harsh
The payment is of course not directly, but the record companies place very expensive adds and of course expect that the song are also in the program.

LK08, this is only from memory, but I’ll try. Kelly’s “A Moment Like This” went straight to #1, however that was a special case, as it was the first Idol victory song ever. However, her next single Miss Independent also went to #1 if I recall.

Daughtry’s “It’s Not Over” had a lot of resiliency in the top ten and charted quite well in multiple formats. Leona’s “Bleeding Love” hit #1 and stayed there for what seemed like forever.

This is why I called Crush a “modest mid-charting hit”. After it hit #2, it seemed like it had potential to be a smash. The drop to #15 was not surprising nor was it to its low point (#31, I believe) because of the lag in radio play, but when it started to climb I expected it to climb way back up. Instead it stalled at #15, then went to #20, and is now at #25.

I do expect he’ll ascend a bit again, but it seems destined to linger between 10 – 25 on Billlboard and 10 – 20 on Itunes, before it finally hits the point of steady decline. Again, let me commend Archie for a great start to his career.

But, if you look at the lists, the big hitters have tremendous staying power in the next bracket up– the top ten on both Billboard and Itunes. I do think Archie will have a song that will have him playing with the big boys and girls, but I don’t think Crush will be that song.

ETA: I believe you and others are right that LO’s impact date will not translate into immediate saturation of the airwaves (or sales). Instead, it will have a slow build, and we’ll see how high that build is eventually.

Thanks Noctum, and I believe, as you said above, that DA will have at least one bigger hit than Crush on the upcoming album.

Anijsch- A lot of people think Crush is a good song with a nice beat, a good hook and catchy lyrics, but I guess it is a matter of opinion.

Well the DA fans initially had a low expectations on DA doing well, so what Crush has done so far is very good! I’m not going to be disappointed if Crush turns out to be just a modest hit, mostly likely it will though since there are so many hot songs out there (Christina’s new song is good! and Jive seems bent on making sure Britney has the greatest come back ever) but like like saying LO is a failure is too early, Crush still has some way to go before we can predict where it will end up especially now that it is just being added by bigger markets after its release 2 months ago. I am expecting low album sales as well, so there everything is good!

Just to comment on Leona, I really like her songs, bleedding love and better in time. but She’s Simon’s pet and he made sure she had the best songwriters and producers from the beginning. He was personally invested in her since X factor. Hate the marketing, but damn I really love her songs lol.

I do expect heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll ascend a bit again, but it seems destined to linger between 10 – 25 on Billlboard and 10 – 20 on Itunes, before it finally hits the point of steady decline.

Lingering on the teens on Billboard’s Hot 100 is nothing to sneeze at– even for the big boys and girls. As Kirsten has mentioned before, lots of HUGE hits from the biggest of all the boys and girls never make it to #1 or 2, or stay near the top of the charts– but that doesn’t make them anything less than a monster hit. Chart topping really requires a perfect storm. I think maybe your expectations are a bit high? All that said, I do expect Crush to continue to improve a bit more on the charts, and I do expect Archie in general to do better from here on out.

Leona’s “Bleeding Love” is another one that benefited from SYTYCD. It was probably my favorite from the whole season. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LBg4HmbEd0 (It is hard to believe that Chelsi Hightower is a ballroom dancer. BTW, she is another one of those Utah Mormons.)

I guarantee that Nygel had a lot to do with the IDOL songs (Cook and Leona) that got on there this season. DA’s “imagine” was chosen because the choreographer was inspired by it. Hopefully Nigel will continue to use Idol songs. It seems to really help with exposure, especially when the routines are wonderful.

ETA: anijsch- an edit on the comment below. I get what you are saying.

LK08
My comment had nothing do to with the quality of Crush, it only should show that some radio play is a paid promotion.

“I do expect heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll ascend a bit again, but it seems destined to linger between 10 – 25 on Billlboard and 10 – 20 on Itunes, before it finally hits the point of steady decline.”

Archie should be so lucky. Lingering in that area would guarantee platinum sales in 6-8 weeks or even sooner.

And Simon took Leona to Oprah with him where she perform Bleeding Love. Her album sales is huge too. I wish I wasn’t aware of the behind maneuverings, but I am, and still her songs are irresistible. Promotion is key.

LK08, this is only from memory, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll try. Kellyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“A Moment Like Thisà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  went straight to #1, however that was a special case, as it was the first Idol victory song ever. However, her next single Miss Independent also went to #1 if I recall.

Depends on how you define #1. “A Moment Like This” went to number one on the Hot 100 (and a bunch of other charts), but “Miss Independent” topped out at #9 on the Hot 100 (it did go to number one on the Top 40 Tracks and Top 40 Mainstream charts).

No album track for any Idol has gotten higher than Number 2 on the Hot 100 (unless you count coronation songs which are sometimes put on the albums). Both “Crush” and Kelly’s “Since U Been Gone” have done that. Jordin’s “No Air” went to number 3. Daughtry’s “It’s Not Over” went to number 4 and Home at “Number 5″. Carrie’s “Before He Cheats” went to number 8. You’ll likely find various charts where these songs all went to number 1. Heck, John Stevens went to number one on a BB chart despite being rejected by those fussy crooner fans.

From what I understand, audience impression numbers are calculated based on number of spins on the radio, and the size of the audience reached per spin depends on the format and the size of the market. A Top40 spin in a major market like the NYC area (i.e. Z100) has huge audience impression numbers compared to an AC spin in Podunk USA.

Very well described. There is one other factor to include. Time of day. Getting spun during the drive home will gain you a higher audience impression than being spun on the same stataion at 2 am. Groups like Arbitron survey listeners and determine the number of likely listeners per station per time slot.

The Hot 100 and Country charts are built on audience impressions. Pop/AC/etc are built on number of spins.

The payment is of course not directly, but the record companies place very expensive adds and of course expect that the song are also in the program.

Thank you for clarifying that a bit. Payola is illegal in the United States. Yes, there is “virtual” payola, but they don’t pay outright. You’ll also get stars performing for free at various Radio events/concerts. Doing that encourages the station to play the song because they don’t want their listeners to come to a concert with people they’ve never heard or people they don’t like.

That said, PDs are not going to accept “payola” for songs they think are going to make their listeners switch the station. If payola guaranteed hit singles/albums, every single/album would be a hit. There is much more to the radio biz than who buys ads on your site. No matter how many ads or free concerts Barry Manilow or Celine offer Boston’s Rock stations, I don’t think they are going to play them. I may not like every song on the station, but I have to presume that enough other listeners do.

The Idolators take on “the week that was” for digital sales….

http://idolator.com/5061823/a-strapped-america-goes-to-the-99 cent-store-and-new-singles-storm-the-top-40

Payola on the AC station in my area seems to involve lots of interviews with American Idol and 19E celebrities. They even had Simon’s brother Tony Cowell come out for a women’s weekend, and talk to him a few times during Idol season. They get to have a weekly feature when the listeners “judge” one of the previous night’s performances.

They play the “favored” idol music constantly, currently Crush, Magic Rainbows, Daughtry, Jordin and Leona. They even interviewed Taylor about Grease which shocked me, as his singles were never played before midnight.

Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Not Overà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  went to number 4 and Home at à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Number 5à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ³

Another poster upthread said INO charted well on rock. If that’s so, I can’t see LO not doing well there. I like INO, but other than two guitar solos, it’s barely even a rock song. Compared to LO, it’s downright muzack. In fact, all of Daughtry’s singles are.

For the record, I like most of Daughtry’s songs quite a bit. And I have a special place in my heart for “Home” because it’s the last song I heard before I arrived at my girlfriend’s house the day I moved in (cue the “aw-moment”….)

But, if he really had success on the rock charts (obviously not with critics, though), then Cook should be able to do it too.

So Crush had 7M and LO had 1.9M audience impression going into sales week. Should it really make the difference between 166k and 109k? What about all the emails sent for LO? What about all the big ads in iTunes? They should more than make up for the audience impression. I don’t buy the competition is tough for LO. Christina, Nickelback, Pink are tough competition, but they all sold less than 166k the first week for LO. TOML sold 236k in four days.

Edit: Please don’t tell posters what to do. Thank you.

So Peace, Love and Cookies to everybody and remember THE DAVIDS ARE LOVE!!!! :thumbup_tb: :wub_tb:

I am not trying to make a competition, but I am still wondering what audience impression is and how it is determined.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to belittle DAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s achievements with Crush and at the moment it is impressive how the units he moves on a weekly basis.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t buy the competition is tough for LO. Christina, Nickelback, Pink are tough competition, but they all sold less than 166k the first week for LO. TOML sold 236k in four days.

But one more aspect of radio plays.
The fewer new songs are in the radio the more it is possible one could stuck out and the chances are higher that people will remember it.
The last weeks have been rough for new songs under this aspect and you have even put Britney new song in this competition.

The drop of Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song is abnormal. First, the other new releases from last week are still in top 20. Second, it is dropping too fast. It took Crush one week to drop out of top 10, and another week to drop to 24 before it went back up.
….So Crush had 7M and LO had 1.9M audience impression going into sales week. Should it really make the difference between 166k and 109k? What about all the emails sent for LO? What about all the big ads in iTunes? They should more than make up for the audience impression. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t buy the competition is tough for LO. Christina, Nickelback, Pink are tough competition, but they all sold less than 166k the first week for LO. TOML sold 236k in four days……..

To be honest, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see anything abnormal about the drop. The only thing unusual is that Cook’s LO chart debut was very high for a new artist, and we have his devoted fans from American Idol to thank for that. A 1.9M audience impression for airplay is sadly quite low, so ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a pretty good explanation for his subsequent drop in the charts. Once LO gets more airplay and the music video comes out, the song will move up in the charts again. I think that if your name isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t synonymous with à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Britneyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , and you have not been heard on the radio, you will chart low. I also donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think the iTunes and Amazon e-mails were that helpful since they mainly targeted the AI crowd (although they did serve to create the illusion that he was being well-marketed).

I could offer a variety of suggestions for why Crush is currently doing better but I think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s irrelevant (and I have a hard time even caring). Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s like wondering why a song by Kanye West or Pink charted higher than a song by Foo Fighters or Jason Mraz . IMO, all of these artist are very good at what they do, but the music genres and target audiences are just too different to compare realistically.

Just for the record, being up against T.I/Rihanna, Pink, Christina Aguilera and Nickelback, all at the peak of their sales sounds like a new artist’s worst nightmare. Those guys are still charting high because they are very popular, well-established artists. They may not have made over 166,000 in their first week but almost two weeks have passed and they are still sitting very comfortably in the top ten. I’m hoping that a year from now, Cook and Archie will be able to do the same.

I read that LO is already #59 in airplay? See that is not at all bad having that in only the 2nd week. It ttook Crush almost 2 months even to go under 60 if I am not wrong.

LO is NOT #59 in overall airplay, perhaps on pop (as it was #67 there last week), but it hasn’t touched the Hot 100 airplay chart yet. There is no way that a song with an audience impression of 2 million would be on that chart.

I am not trying to make a competition, but I am still wondering what audience impression is and how it is determined.

Survey company like Arbitron determines the following (all the numbers are made up):
Station A averages 100,000 listeners between the hours of 4-6 pm (drive home) and 5,000 listeners between the hours of 1-5 am (overnight)
Station B averages 25,000 listeners between the hours of 4-6 pm and 1,000 listeners between the hours of 2-4 am

Monitoring company like Mediabase determines the following during a 1 week period (all the numbers are made up):
Station A played Artist X 5 times during the drive home and 10 times during the overnight period.
Station A played Artist Z 1 time during the drive home and 23 times during the overnight perod
Station B played Artist X 7 times during the drive hom and 2 times during the overnight period.
Station B played Artist Z 7 times during the drive home and 43 times during the overnight period.

Spin Counts (imagine the commas are plus signs, pluses are eaten by the blog):
Artist X: 5, 10, 7, 2= 24
Artist Z: 1, 23, 7, 43=74

Audience Impressions (number of times non-unique listeners heard the song):
Artixt X: 5*100K, 10*5K, 7*25K, 2*1K= 727K
Artist Z: 1*100K, 23*5K, 7*25K, 43*1K=433K

So, Artist Z got spun more times, but more listeners heard Artist X (although, some of those might be the same listeners every day, but hearing a song multiple times helps too). AI “rewards” artists who get played more frequently on larger stations and during periods of time when there are more listeners.

It’s a lot easier for the labels to get artists to be spun overnight, but it means more to get them spun during the drive home. Each time slot has been surveyed to find the average number of listeners.

oh sorry it’s on pop then.

So Crush had 7M and LO had 1.9M audience impression going into sales week. Should it really make the difference between 166k and 109k? What about all the emails sent for LO? What about all the big ads in iTunes? They should more than make up for the audience impression. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t buy the competition is tough for LO. Christina, Nickelback, Pink are tough competition, but they all sold less than 166k the first week for LO. TOML sold 236k in four days.

Edit: Bingo. DON’T question the motives of your fellow posters.

Now to your points. Your audience impression numbers are off. According to updated Mediabase figures, as of 10/3, LO’s media impression was only 1.2M. Recall that it dropped on 9/30, so it was likely below 1M when it came out. (And I believe Crush’s numbers were at 7.6M when it came out, thanks to the Z-100 premiere and the extra week of airplay.) As of yesterday, LO was still only at 2.0M, and obviously if people haven’t heard a song, they aren’t going to buy it. In other words, once you’ve exhausted your existing fan purchases, audience impression numbers are EVERYTHING. Having your song be heard is paramount.

Regarding, the emails, the Itunes ones were only sent to people who had bought TOML, so most of them would have bought LO already or else were probably the easy-listening crowd among whom TOML had become a hit, and a good many of them would have experienced a culture-shock when they heard LO after hearing TOML and needless to say weren’t going to buy it. And as for the Amazon emails, Amazon is only responsible for about 5% – 10% of all mp3 sales.

Finally, the respective competition issue has been addressed many times. LO was up against the new releases of all the power players you mentioned. Crush’s only major new release competition was Demi Lovato. If you look at the Itunes sales figures between then and now, you’ll see the only week that Crush would have held the top spot was the week it came out (good timing, Jive).

Now having said all that, I think it’s entirely possible that Archie has a larger core fanbase than Cook at this point. There was a strong sense during the season that Cook had “broader” (in terms of numbers) support, but Archie had “deeper” support (in terms of intensity). In other words, Archie had a greater number of ultra-passionate fans whereas Cook was ultimately carried over the top by casual fans.

So some of Cook’s more casual fans would have forgotten about him as soon as the season was over– out of sight, out mind, to put it another way. Another factor is that Cook’s fanbase was far more disorganized. Prior to the launch of his official site, there was no central “hub” for Cook fans. Nineteen did a piss-poor job running both Davids’ Myspaces, but from what I understand of Archie fandom, Fanblast served and serves as the primary hub for his fans, as Castrocopia does for Jason Castro fans.

On the Cook front, you had one site claiming it was his official fan site, but in actuality, Cook fan sites popped up left and right and fans went here, there, and everywhere. And some likely got lost in the shuffle.

One of the purposes, I think, of the banners you are starting to see popping up advertising Cook’s album (not his single) is to try to gather the disparate Cook fans from the season and remind them about him. We’ll see how well RCA can do this by 11/18.

Finally, the respective competition issue has been addressed many times. LO was up against the new releases of all the power players you mentioned. Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only major new release competition was Demi Lovato. If you look at the Itunes sales figures between then and now, youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll see the only week that Crush would have held the top spot was the week it came out (good timing, Jive).

But, if they had released “Crush” last week and it sold the same numbers as it did during it’s debut week, “Crush” would have been number 2. That’s nothing to sneeze at either. “Crush” sold more than all those “power players” who released this week with the exception of TI’s newest song.

“Crush” had good debut numbers, IMO. It’s not like he had the number 1 album in January when it only takes 60K to get number 1. Or that he topped the Hot Singles chart by selling 782 CD singles. IMO, his numbers would be good in any week. IMO, its achievement needs no asterik.

“Light On” has good numbers too, especially considering the lack of airplay. Anything over 100K is notable.

Kirsten, I have acknowledged many times that Archie did very well, has done very well, and is doing very well. I was merely responding, point-by-point, to a post which contained some inaccuracies and came off as provocative, while supplying some context in the process. But, I have no wish to restart this merry-go-round.

But it’s impossible to say whether Crush would’ve sold 166k (or more) if it were released last week, or if it would’ve sold less. On the other hand, if LO had been released the week Crush was, who knows if it would’ve sold more or less?

It’s like the convo every year about comparing coronation single sales…different years, different market conditions, different formats…it’s impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions and IMO only serves to stir up fanwars.

But, if they had released à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  last week and it sold the same numbers as it did during ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s debut week, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  would have been number 2. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s nothing to sneeze at either. à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  sold more than all those à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“power playersà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  who released this week with the exception of TIà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s newest song.

How much someone sells in a week is partially dependent on who else is charting. None of us can know whether T.I’s presence helped or detracted from Christina A or whether an artist like Nickelback helped or hurt DC. There is, however, one thing I am certain about. If you are at the #1 spot on iTUNES for a whole week, people are going to check.you.out…a lot. They’ll even go to UTube, listen to your song, try to figure out why other people like it so much and maybe even purchase it! I’m sure people did that with the T.I song, Rihanna’s Disturbia, DCs TOML and Archie’s Crush. So I don’t think it is accurate to assume that Christina’s numbers would not have been higher any other week or Archie’s numbers would not have been lower this past week. Oops…I just realized that Michelle is saying something similar (sort of)! This thing took me long enough to type so I’m submitting it anyway!

Disclaimer: I think Archie’s numbers are phenomenal…I’m just trying to explain why people keep raising the issue of competition as a factor. I still think that trying to compare LO to Crush is a moot issue.

So I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think it is accurate to assume that Christinaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s numbers would not have been higher any other week or Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s numbers would not have been lower this past week.

Totally, that is why I put all those disclaimers on it. I’m not assuming anything. In the entertainment biz, there are so many extraneous factors, it is impossible to make a definitive comparison between any two endeavours.

I simply wanted to point out that “Crush” numbers are good in any week. People keep saying that “Crush” was up against weak competition. That’s making an assumption as well. Was the competition “weak” or was “Crush” just that strong? We can’t state definitively. Rihanna’s “Disturbia” is a 900 pound gorilla. I think it could go mano-to-mano with Pink’s “So What” if they debuted in the same week (respective number twos both weeks we are discussing). Again, it’s not like “Crush” was topping the January album charts where many argue that is an easy feat to do (you won’t get that argument from me, though, because I think it’s still hard to do because you are working in a slumping market as well). That was a decent iTunes week and “Crush’s” numbers were good in any week. Might not have been number one, but it wouldn’t have been 193rd either. How did it sell those numbers? Well, there are so many variables involved, that I think it’s hard to state that definitively as well. I will say, those numbers surprised me. LOL. I’m such a number’s nut. It’s like I’m some kind of hockey nut who is saying “Sure, I hate the Leafs, but I have to appreciate how good their forwards are” (just a hypothetical example. Everybody knows the Leafs blow. LOL)./

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m just trying to explain why people keep raising the issue of competition as a factor. I still think that trying to compare LO to Crush is a moot issue.

As do I. And, this road has been traveled endlessly. :laugh_tb: I’m like, “David, shave your head, smash a beer bottle, kick someone’s tire…anything. Just give us something else to talk about!”

I guess it happens every season, though….

I think people tend to overestimate audience impression. A 6M audience impression difference between Crush and LO is nothing compared to the airplay for top songs. The first two weeks of an idol single are mainly fueled by idol fans. TOML didn’t have airplay but it sold 236k in four days.

LO get much more promotion online and should more than make up for the loss in audience impression. If everyone who bought TOML or an idol song/album get an email, there should be enough buyers to boost the sales way up. Maybe it is just me, but Cook’s ad is everywhere I go. I click on the ads and they lead to either album pre-order or iTunes for the single. It is strange that the single is still at #52 with so much promotion. Archie has a fansite, Archie has weaker competition, Archie was #1 for one week…all the factors may influence sales, but not much.

edit: Watch the way you talk to your fellow posters, respect their opinions, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START FAN WARS.

If everyone who bought TOML or an idol song/album get an email, there should be enough buyers to boost the sales way up.

Except not everyone got this e-mail from iTunes or Amazon. I know some did and I have no idea how they determined who to send them to, but myself or anyone I know didn’t get it an e-mail from either – so no not every single person who bought TOML got an e-mail encouraging them to boost sales. And I’ll say for the 20th time, if RCA was so set on helping sales they would have sent a MySpace bulletin out.

I’m not making excuses but in terms of airplay where I am (live in New Jersey work in NYC) I’ve yet to hear Light On on the radio yet when Crush went on sale I was hearing it often. For fans that don’t go on-line and see Google ads that makes a huge difference not just actual audience numbers.

And Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll say for the 20th time, if RCA was so set on helping sales they would have sent a MySpace bulletin out.

I hear this argument a lot. Cook has 120k myspace friends? How many people have bought either TOML or any idol song? Millions of them. Let’s cut the number by half since some people make sure they check off the spam mail box when registering for iTunes and Amazon. You still get millions of people receiving the email (I got one). The 120k friends very well may be included in the emails already because they very well may already bought TOML.

I simply wanted to point out that à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  numbers are good in any week. People keep saying that à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  was up against weak competition. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s making an assumption as well. Was the competition à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“weakà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  or was à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  just that strong? We canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t state definitively. Rihannaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Disturbiaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  is a 900 pound gorilla. I think it could go mano-to-mano with Pinkà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“So Whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  if they debuted in the same week (respective number twos both weeks we are discussing). Again, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not like à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  was topping the January album charts where many argue that is an easy feat to do (you wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get that argument from me, though, because I think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s still hard to do because you are working in a slumping market as well).

I agree with you Kirsten. I mean, as far as hit singles go, Disturbia is a beast. Definately not what I would call “weak” competition.

I don’t think myspace give the possibility to sent mail to all your friends. You have to subscribe for a newsletter or the blogs to get an email.
And my myspace newsletter email has been in my spam folder and if I hadn’t read here that others has received it, I wouldn’t have checked.

anijsch, people are talking about a bulletin on myspace thats sent out to everyone. Since DC’s myspace sent out a bulletin about his ET appearance then