Idol Sales News – Week Ending 09/27/09

Sales numbers for the Billboard Release Date 10/10/2009 after the jump.

Download Numbers
8 Carrie Underwood “Cowboy Casanova” 110,236 (NEW) Total: 110,236 (NEW)
21 Kelly Clarkson “Already Gone” 47,144 (3%; lw 45,697) Total: 389,872 (27)
44 Jordin Sparks “Battlefield” 30,994 (-8%; lw 33,738) Total: 998,417 (42)
71 Daughtry “No Surprise” 21,400 (-9%; lw 23,636) Total: 818,239
93 Kris Allen “Live Like We’re Dying” 15,755 (NEW) Total: 15,755 (NEW)
160 Kellie Pickler “Best Days of Your Life” 8,949 (-8%; lw 9,690) Total:824,126

Glee
32 Glee Cast “Taking Chances” 37,212 (NEW) Total: 37,212 (NEW)
49 Glee Cast “Somebody to Love” 29,245 (NEW) Total: 29,245 (NEW)
109 Glee Cast “Bust Your Windows” 12,714 (-39%; lw 20,920) Total: 33,634
116 Glee Cast “Take a Bow” 12,128 (-40%; lw 20,340) Total: 85,841

Album Numbers
28 Daughtry “Leave This Town” 15,789 (-13%; lw 18,062) Total: 661,038 (24)
79 Kelly Clarkson “All I Ever Wanted” 5,656 (-5%; lw 5,985) Total: 711,25 (87)
125 Jordin Sparks “Battlefield” 3,732 (-9%; lw 4,082) Total: 116,964 (119)
177 Kellie Pickler “Kellie Pickler” 2,764 (-4%; lw 2,893) Total: 314,212 (155)

Please post numbers as you find them. Thanks!

  • Kirsten

    Airplay before recurrents are removed (increase in audience impressions)
    No. 42 – Carrie Underwood (+3.8 million)
    No. 45 – Kelly Clarkson (+4.4 million)

    Streaming:
    No. 6 No Surprise
    No. 10 Already Gone

  • Valentin432

    93 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  15,755 (NEW) Total: 15,755 (NEW)

    I know it was released only Friday without any banners on itunes and minimal radio airplay, but that seems awfully low to me.

  • jpfan

    It’s pretty low. Assuming a full week would have probably been 30/35K it compares with Jordin’s first week for Tattoo:

    22 Jordin Sparks ‘Tattoo’  33,764 (NEW) Total: 33,780 (NEW)

    Nothing like the 100K plus that Archie/Cook had. Kris just doesn’t have a huge Idol fanbase. Very similiar to Jordin. Of course, she on her 4th platinum single so it worked out fine.

  • 123abc456

    93 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  15,755 (NEW) Total: 15,755 (NEW)

    That is low but it was 3 days versus 7. I am hoping it will pick up for comparison Light On by David Cook debuted at 109,000 but it had the full 7 days on the chart. So this is probably not a fair comparison but it was the last Idol winners debut song off of his album and at the time the song took a lot of hits with folks saying it was not a high enough number etc etc. Carrie’s new song is doing well.

  • Kirsten

    Yep, not stellar numbers. Jive and Kris have their work cut out for them.

    Kris just doesn’t have a huge Idol fanbase. Very similiar to Jordin.

    MJ used to say that Jordin’s fan base was a mile wide an inch thick (or something to that effect). I think we are seeing the same thing here. What it means is that lots of people voted for Kris and like him alright, but not enough to buy his music. Jive and Kris have to turn the people that like him into people who want his music on their iPods.

    Airplay (if he can get it) and other exposure will be key here. The little iTunes add helped a bit.

  • jpfan

    Does anyone have a link to a chart for first week sales for all Idol singles?

  • Q3

    jpfan: It’s pretty low. Assuming a full week would have probably been 30/35K it compares with Jordin’s first week for Tattoo:

    22 Jordin Sparks ‘Tattoo’  33,764 (NEW) Total: 33,780 (NEW)

    Nothing like the 100K plus that Archie/Cook had. Kris just doesn’t have a huge Idol fanbase. Very similiar to Jordin. Of course, she on her 4th platinum single so it worked out fine.

    Compared to Jordin’s Tattoo, these numbers are not good when you consider that digital sales were up 27% from 2007 to 2008 and are up a similar amount from 2008 to 2009. That is, more people buy digital tracks now vs. 2007. But Tattoo did go on to hit #8 on the Billboard chart and is close to selling 2 million units in the US. So, I think it is too early to tell what LLWD will do this week.

    Kris and Jordin do have a lot in common when it comes to sales. Kris’ first single performed similarly to Jordin’s, too. They are the two Idol Winners whose corination song didn’t hit Billboard Top 10: NoBo #11, This Is My Now #15. (Kelly, Fantasia, Carrie, Taylor hit #1, Ruben #2, Cook #3).

  • BCU79

    Does anyone have a chart for first week sales for all Idol singles?

    Kris has to be at the bottom (because of the 3 day thing.)

    edit: please dial back the defensiveness

    I think this is a decent start. As you mentioned above, if this had a full week of sales it would have averaged around what “Tattoo” sold. The song was released on a Friday with no fanfare. There’s no music video and the song has not even officially gone for adds yet.

    LLWD is already back up in the iTunes Top 30 and it keeps inching closer to the Pop Top 10.

    Kristen already said it. But radio airplay is the key. Jive needs to get more stations playing the song.

  • CamelliaSin

    jpfan

    Does anyone have a link to a chart for first week sales for all Idol singles?

    KathyMK posted this yesterday in the headline thread

    Coronation song comparison chart, created by LadyMadonna of DCO and MJs:

    http://www.scribd.com/full/11441393?access_key=key-97iinme2ztwd0ls7qsn

    Very infomative

  • haruhi

    So, Kris’ numbers are low. Hmm… Pretty sure this will lead to something else.

  • jpfan

    Kris looks to be doing much better this week. He could be close to sales of 35/40K and his numbers next week will go up (not down). It’s way too early to say this is a flop. It’s better to keep gaining sales each week than a big bang and then poof.

    But he needs promo and airplay. He doesn’t have a huge, dedicated fanbase to do the heavy lifting in the early days.

  • haruhi

    On another note, I’m glad to see Glee’s numbers.

  • alaadam

    I’m confuzzled. Wouldn’t Kris’s numbers been doubled if he had the full week of sales-thus up closer to Glee’s numbers?

  • Kirsten

    Does anyone have a chart for first week sales for all Idol singles?

    Kris has to be at the bottom (because of the 3 day thing.)

    Nah, Taylor probably wins that one. His debut album single wasn’t released until like 3 months after the CD dropped and about two months after it cratered. I don’t think we even got first week numbers for “Just To Feel That Way”. TGFT!

    The first week you could buy Taylor’s singles were the day the album was released and none of his tracks debuted in the top 50 which bottomed out at 14,465.

  • babybelle32

    I don’t think these numbers show that people like Kris, but not enough to buy his music. I think that people like him, but not enough to deal with fanwars, so they haven’t followed what he’s been up to on the internet. The song was only being played in a few markets last week, and on most stations it was only played once. As the song reaches more markets, and more people get to hear it, coupled with more promotion, I’m sure the numbers will increase. As it was, pretty much the only people who knew about the release were those who frequent AI related message boards, or those who follow Kris on twitter, and this group just represents a fraction of the people who voted for Kris, or who would actually buy his music.

    Besides, the units that Kris sells in the weeks and months to come, will count the same as the ones that he sold over the weekend.

  • lucy

    The only thing that ever really matters is how a song or album does after it gets some exposure.

    Without some kind of significant exposure like radio play or *big* promo, you’re only seeing how well somebody does with the Idol fanbase. And nobody can build a solid, long-term career out of just the Idol fanbase, no matter how big a splash they may make with that group, although an Idol fanbase *can* help sustain you until other people catch on and during down spots.

    Just like with the rest of them, only time will tell with Kris. No reason to sweat these numbers, I don’t think.

  • BeckyMD

    Is it possible that Kris’ fans who bought itune pass got confused about whether llwd will be included in the album and therefore didn’t buy the single now? I saw discussion like this but didn’t follow closely.

    Billboard number is updated weekly. Anyone know how often is itune updated? iirc, llwd was around mid #60 last Sunday. Its #97 in Billboard. Does it mean llwd sells worse in outlet other than itune?

  • Q3

    Comparing Kris’ LLWD sales to past Idol winners’ sales performance may not make a lot of sense since this is a non-comparable release.

    1. It was released on a Friday.

    2. Only two of past Idol winners have a similar late September lead album single:

    – Kelly released a Double A side single with the Cornination Song and a second single from her upcomng album — different timing.

    – Ruben, Fantasia and Talyor released one single in June and their albums late in the year. (Fantasia 11/23; Ruben 12/9, Talyor 12/12)

    Only Jordin and David Cook released lead album singles in September before releasing albums in November.

  • Squirrely

    Does Glee have an album or just singles?

  • http://myspace.com/girlgeek mj

    Reminder:

    Kirsten and I will be editing to keep fan wars at a minimum.

  • ggdoorsfan

    dunno what other former idol debut singles did their first week, but david a’s ”crush” [rel. august 2008] sold 166k downloads, ”light on” for david c. [rel. september 2008] pulled in 109k…

    crush sold steadily week to week, and is now approaching 2 million downloads – requests have been made to brian mansfield at idol chatter for the most recent sales figures… the last info we received from him in may had ”crush” at a cumulative total sold at 1.8 million… anything can happen, and yes, kris seems to be off to a slow start, but let’s see what kind of push jive will give the song to radio, etc… that will be key….

  • Squirrely

    Kirsten and I will be editing to keep fan wars at a minimum.

    Uh oh MJ has backup!

  • vanjess38

    Q3,
    How many days is this sales for? Can you tell? And is it only for itunes?

  • wipedaway

    where did my post go? it’s so confusing around here LOL

    I’m surprised by his sales because he did debut the song, albeit on Friday, on KIIS with Ryan and it was talking about throughout the weekend as being available.

    Twitter is a great marketing tool so word spread that way that the song was available. IMO, even if it was only 3 days of sales it should’ve done better than 15K

  • dv

    Kelly released a Double A side single with the Cornination Song and a second single from her upcomng album ‘” different timing.

    Miss independent was Kelly lead single. Before Your Love was released at the same time as A Moment Like This.

  • Q3

    Individual singles sell very differently based on how and when they are released, the promotion, the genre, the artist’s fanbase, and so on. The only thing that matters in the end is total sales.

    No doubt that LLWD will sell and move up the charts with promotion and airplay. And will be further helped when they release the video and Kris’ album.

  • alaadam

    Twitter is a great marketing tool so word spread that way that the song was available. IMO, even if it was only 3 days of sales it should’ve done better than 15K

    I can see your point here since almost all of the idols twittered to their followers about it.

  • wipedaway

    I can see your point here since almost all of the idols twittered to their followers about it.

    It wasn’t just the idols, Rickey, Jim C and even Michael Slesak twittered about it. #livelikeweredying even trended at one point I believe.

    I’m not saying the song is a failure but I’m actually shocked that it didn’t even break 20K. If I remember correctly NB was released for sale on a Thursday after the finale and when the numbers came in it was over 100K wasn’t it? Yes, it’s almost impossible to compare a song televised to 30 million people but Kris himself has over 100K followers and he said the song was available on itunes.

    It just seems very very low to me. and it still hasn’t reached a higher peak on the top 100 songs than #29 (as far as I’ve seen). It is moving upward so it should see an increase in sales next week as radio spins increase.

  • Q3

    Miss independent was Kelly lead single. Before Your Love was released at the same time as A Moment Like This.

    You’re right Miss Independent was released before the album, but only 2 weeks before. And it was treated like an album single vs. a lead single from a promotional standpoint. I was trying to keep it simple because Kelly’s release schedule (May album release) was so different than the other Idol winners (and it was a different world then, pre-digital).

    But in any case, my big point is that there are only two other former winners who had a late September lead single for a November album release: Jordin and David Cook. And Kris’ release looks a lot like Jordin’s release in terms of sales units.

  • mickeybordentwo

    Idol fans often buy their favorite’s product as much for loyalty and faith in their favorite as for actual quality. Preorders are pretty much based on that loyalty and faith.

    In this case, Kris’s fans had the option of listening to the song, either in part or whole, but don’t seem to have responded particularly strongly to it. Either they don’t know about its availability (in which case someone at 19/Jive isn’t doing their job) or they don’t like the song, or they don’t like Kris enough to plop down $1.29, regardless of how they feel about the song.

  • suebrody

    I have to think the iTunes pass has *something* to do with it, especially because THE WEBSITE SAYS YOU GET THE SINGLE WHEN YOU PURCHASE THE PASS. Clearly, this is not the case. But don’t you think that ppl are going to wait until the entire album comes out rather than buying the single? I am.

  • Gigi3

    Yes, it’s almost impossible to compare a song televised to 30 million people but Kris himself has over 100K followers and he said the song was available on itunes.

    I’m one of Kris’s followers on Twitter, but won’t be buying his single. I followed all of the idols on tour, just to stay in the loop. Twitter followers can’t all be counted as sure things when it comes to iTunes purchases.

  • http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com Buderschnookie

    Twitter is a great marketing tool so word spread that way that the song was available. IMO, even if it was only 3 days of sales it should’ve done better than 15K

    Aside from the weird Friday release (which I think was a mistake) I really think this single should have been released at a time when Kris was in the country and available to promote it.
    I would have had him doing 30 phone in interviews to radio stations daily, as well as appearances.

    Yes, it is long term numbers that count. But the public are notorious bandwagon jumpers, and there is no bandwagon here. Lack of an early buzz can never get a do over, and first impressions do count.

  • Jolene

    Still trying to figure out what were they thinking with the Friday release… WTF Jive, WTF?

    A slow start isn’t terrible in itself, just as long as things pick up later, a la Jordin’s lead single. Too soon to say anything definitive, other than Kris’ online following isn’t very big. However I’m not sure I’d expect an increase with this week’s sales – most of his loyal fans probably already bought the single when it first came out, and it might take more time for the song to gain enough airplay for the casual fan to notice it and pick it up. We’ll see…

  • Trina

    I was expecting it to crack 20,000 too. Oh well. It’s a catchy song and if it really starts catching on in airplay I think it will end up selling well in the longrun. I’m wondering if that free (high quality no less) download All Access sent hurt him?

    Two questions though: Is there any chance at all it will make the Hot 100? And the amount of pop adds it got this week (I think 4?) is that really low?

  • Matt

    I wouldn’t worry at all about Kris’ first week single sales. Once stations start adding it, it will get its share of radio spins which will lead to the sales. I’ll be a little surprised if it isn’t a hit song by December-ish. I know Jordin’s tattoo ended up selling platinum after weak first week sales. Even in David Cook’s case, he had a pretty solid first week with LO (103K, I believe) then the single tanked the following weeks. It ended up getting revived once radio stations starting spinning it and eventually ended up being a platinum-selling single.

    I think Kris will be just fine. I think the start of his career will be similar to Jordin’s in that he’ll sell a load of singles but may struggle a bit with album sales. I think Adam will be the same way. They’ll both have great sales during the Holiday season, but come Jan-1 it’s going to be a struggle.

  • lucy

    Aside from the weird Friday release (which I think was a mistake) I really think this single should have been released at a time when Kris was in the country and available to promote it.
    I would have had him doing 30 phone in interviews to radio stations daily, as well as appearances.

    Yeah, this does seem strange to me. Seems like just about everybody does that, and I’m sure it does drive the visibility up or they wouldn’t go through it.

    I’m with those who don’t expect the song’s major uptick (assuming it’s going to have one!) this week necessarily. If people haven’t bought it already, they probably aren’t aware of it or don’t love it yet, seems to me. Radio play and Kris showing up on your radio station in the car during morning traffic jams are what can increase awareness and worm the song into people’s heads so they have to have it. That won’t happen this week.

    I don’t think it’s got any chance at all of being in the Hot 100 this week, does it? Barely in the top 100 saleswise and without enough radio play to get it on the charts there, etc. I think it’ll have to work its way in over time.

  • Mary102

    MJ used to say that Jordin’s fan base was a mile wide an inch thick (or something to that effect). I think we are seeing the same thing here.

    This is an excellent comparison, and I tend to agree. Jordin was very popular her year, but in more of a broad, middle-of-the-road, ain’t she cute and sweet sorta way. Definitely reminiscent of Kris this season.

    And that said, I think it may speak to needing to cast a wider net to capture a bigger, non-AI audience (essential at any rate) – but, as evidenced in Jordin’s case, it is certainly a very possible thing to do, especially with a catchy single, which, imo, LLWD is.

    I think the friday release on itunes may have hurt the first week sales a lot (still not sure about the logic for that decision) – and it kept the single more buried from the general public during the weekend. More airplay and media appearances in the next few weeks and months (leading up to the album) will increase exposure and I predict it will start to pick up a lot more steam.

  • Mtlfan

    No doubt that LLWD will sell and move up the charts with promotion and airplay. And will be further helped when they release the video and Kris’ album

    I agree with Q3. And I think a lot of people that bought the Ipass are just waiting for the album to be released. It’s premature to do comparisons. Did the other winner had the Ipass as well?

  • bluejeans

    The numbers are low, even for a 3 day period. For an Idol winner’s debut single off his debut album. And this is the age of twitter (free promotion). I’m just a little surprised because I see a lot of Kris love everywhere (media and online). He’s not a polarizing guy.

    BUT, when the song gets picked up on the radio, it should do well because it is hella catchy. I wish Kris bb all the best. He’s one of the best twitterers among the season 8 contestants.

  • YankeeFan08

    They’ll both have great sales during the Holiday season, but come Jan-1 it’s going to be a struggle.

    How is it that you are able to predict this? No one knows what will happen once their CDs drop.

  • baseballmom

    Radio is also being very very slow to pick up the song as evidenced by his quickcut numbers:

    Total: 231 (+2)
    Pop: 117 (+1)
    HAC: 113 (+5)
    AC: 1 (-3)

    Aud: 0.921 (-0.09)

  • BCU79

    Two questions though: Is there any chance at all it will make the Hot 100? And the amount of pop adds it got this week (I think 4?) is that really low?

    LLWD is not officially going for adds until October 12th. 4 top 40 stations (Orlando, Little Rock, Biloxi, Augusta) and 4 HAC stations (Cincinnati, San Jose, Little Rock and Canton) added the song early.

  • carmine2008

    But don’t you think that ppl are going to wait until the entire album comes out rather than buying the single? I am.

    I am too. Although I don’t count with regards to iTunes sales since I’m from another country.

  • http://twitter.com/cara_lee pj

    It’s a little disappointing, but if I hadn’t been a regular here or follow Idol, I wouldn’t have known about the single until Monday night at 7:17, when I heard it on our local Mix station (Chicago… major market). That tells me that radio’s going to give him a chance. Don’t think they ever played Taylor Hicks. I think he’ll do fine in the long run, but we’ll see. Too early to predict.

  • bluejeans

    They’ll both have great sales during the Holiday season, but come Jan-1 it’s going to be a struggle.

    How is it that you are able to predict this? No one knows what will happen once their CDs drop.

    Because that is the general trend for ALL artistes. It happens every time and every year. The January slump.

  • haruhi

    Wow, the MJ-Kirsten tag team is proving to be a powerful deterrent. Great job!

  • baseballmom

    Most hot new songs pick up lots of adds before the adds date…..Crush was already top 25 on pop before its adds date as one example from Jive. Jordin was a bit slower but still received great support from z100 before her adds date as well.

  • ksgirlfordc

    Mtlfan, I think this was the first year for Ipass. I don’t remember it from last year.

    Yankeefan08, January sales are always low. DC fans were prepared for this last year so the angst was not as bad as it could have been. Hope KA & AL have good sales in the holiday season, but January will be a killer. Always is.

  • Matt

    How is it that you are able to predict this? No one knows what will happen once their CDs drop.

    Because it happens every single year. So yes, I know what will happen once their CD’s drop. High holiday sales, low 1st QTR sales. Call me Nostradamus.

  • leome

    Those are great numbers for Carrie. Country songs never sell that much, so that’s nice. I’d love for her song to crossover.

  • BeckyMD

    I agree with Q3. And I think a lot of people that bought the Ipass are just waiting for the album to be released.

    I’m confused by this Ipass thing. What benefits does Ipass carry? People who bought the Ipass still need to pay for single and album? And like those who don’t have Ipass, they need to decide between buying the single now and saving the money to buy the album later?

    Decision between purchasing single and album is general to every singer who has drop single first and release album later, whether there is Ipass or not. Is it any special in Kris’ case?

  • http://mamadeb.livejournal.com mamadeb

    The whole timing thing is bothering me – a short week to start sales when that will hurt his initial numbers, and doing so just before he leaves the country so he can’t do any publicity the next week.

    The only way it makes sense to me is that they rushed it out (which may be why they chose that song. Or maybe they really did love it.) before any Adam media blitz that might happen this week. Not because of comparisons, but because there’s only so much attention the general media will give to any given year’s Idol contestants, and Adam has become a media magnet.

    However, this is ceding the media entirely to Adam, and that’s a mistake.

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    I’ve got to think that with some decent airplay, Kris’s single will take off. Honestly, since the debuts on Z100 and WPLJ, I’ve not heard it played once. I like it, and I bought it…and I want to hear it on the radio!

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    mamadeb
    September 30, 2009 at 11:07 am
    The whole timing thing is bothering me ‘“ a short week to start sales when that will hurt his initial numbers, and doing so just before he leaves the country so he can’t do any publicity the next week.

    The only way it makes sense to me is that they rushed it out (which may be why they chose that song. Or maybe they really did love it.) before any Adam media blitz that might happen this week. Not because of comparisons, but because there’s only so much attention the general media will give to any given year’s Idol contestants, and Adam has become a media magnet.

    OTOH, if Kris is picking up sales on Amazon because of Adam’s release (whether out of curiosity, fanwars, cross-promo, whatnot), could upcoming PR for Adam actually help Kris? Kris’s name will get mentioned, people will go “oh yeah, the winner – let’s check him out too!” and the song will get airplay?

  • lucy

    http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3182892&st=10605

    Somebody on TWOP mentioned this morning that Z100 played LLWD around 1 o’clock this morning. Don’t know if that’s true or not.

  • wipedaway

    OTOH, if Kris is picking up sales on Amazon because of Adam’s release (whether out of curiosity, fanwars, cross-promo, whatnot), could upcoming PR for Adam actually help Kris? Kris’s name will get mentioned, people will go ‘oh yeah, the winner ‘“ let’s check him out too!’  and the song will get airplay?

    Okay, no offense but that’s just sad if Kris needs Adam’s PR to help him get sales.

    He needs to stand on his own two feet and either sink or swim on his own merits. Adam can’t carry him throughout his career and it’s not really beneficial to Kris if that really is what is happening.

  • snuffles

    Did Kris’s iTunes pass include the first single? And would that go towards his first week of sales? Anyone know how that was supposed to work?

  • houstonrufus

    The unfortunate thing is it seems like the kind of song that could catch on, IMO, if promoted and pushed properly. I’m not saying it would be a major blockbuster. But I could definitely see it getting traction on HAC and doing well there for a while. That still may happen. Hopefully it will.

    I just don’t get the the timing of the release, the lack of promo and, not it’s that big of a deal, but the cover for the single. It’s not like there aren’t photos of these guys. Slap his face on the cover at least.

    Kris strikes me as the sort of Idol that doesn’t have as rabid of a folllowing as some of the other idols. That is a blessing and a curse. It makes it harder in the beginning, because the material and promotion really have to kick in and do the work. But in the long run, all idols have to move beyond that initial subset of crazy fans who will buy anything released. He’s in a good position to do that if he can get off the ground. He’s not polarizing and has a style and sound that is marketable.

    Bottom line for me, I think it’s a good enough first single for a modest hit. It just needs the push and promotion. Proper appearances on TV and all that. Jive? 19?

  • evanjane

    Media Base Quckcut numbers to date:

    LLWD
    Total Spins: 309
    138– Top 40
    133 — HAC
    4– AC
    2– Rhy

    A.I. — 1.886

    This is higher than DC’s at the same time period last year. DC with a Total Spin of 295 and an A.I. of 1.675.

    As far as Kris’s sales, I’m not sure how this will all play out for him. If people voted for Kris watched the show purely for entertainment rather than being music buyers, it might make the road more difficult for Kris. His sales were quite strong after the finale, so I’m still optimistic. I think radio play will be the catalyst here for the single.

    I’ll remain cautiously optimistic. If Kris needs to grow organically like any other artist than so be it. I still see a good future for him in music.

  • Matt

    However, this is ceding the media entirely to Adam, and that’s a mistake.

    Unless Adam completely tanks and Kris sells a ton of records, Adam will more than likely be more popular than Kris for a while. The media has been entirely Adam since March, so it wouldn’t surprise me if it continued that way for a while.

    It the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really make much sense to compare the two. I’ve never seen a fan or media rivalry like Cook and Archie had last year; the media hasn’t been comparing them since January. They’ve both gotten off to a great start and nobody cares who sells more singles or albums. It will eventually be that way with Kris and Adam.

  • Ladyguard

    Aside from the weird Friday release (which I think was a mistake) I really think this single should have been released at a time when Kris was in the country and available to promote it

    I didn’t realize that Kris was not in the country.

  • Soapbox0916

    Speaking on behalf of myself, a mega Kris fan. (I apologize in advance for the book-length post.) Two things to consider. Kris has had an i-tunes pass that has been available since May (that charted in May and June on i-tunes already) that was supposed to include all singles and Kris’s album as a pre-order. Many Kris fans did their part as early as May. Second, Kris fans were really caught off guard by the move up to a Friday and are just flat out confused as to what is going on.

    Kris’s single was reported as coming out on September 29 for several weeks. I even had the September 29 date on my outlook to check i-tunes. If I had not been on vacation for a few days recently and therefore hanging out on-line, I would not have realized that the date had been moved up to Friday of last week, and I qualify as mega Kris fan, but it very nearly slipped by me. Kris’s tweet is how I learned of it and I really thought Kris was mistaken. Even though, i-tunes had it and Amazon had it last Friday, several Kris fans reported that other places that sell singles (where they are used to buying their music) was told that the single would not be available till September 29.

    A lot of Kris fans thought that the single would not be available until this week at the very earliest. I have even talked to a few Kris fans who were confused the other direction when they noticed that Kris had been taken off of the September 29th date, they thought the single date had been delayed. Since Kris will not be ready to promote his single until around October 17 when he finishes his album, I am guessing that Jive wanted to make the single available for fans to purchase, but are planning on promoting the single at a later date to build up for the album release.

    There are couple of other reasons too that needs to be considered. Kris has had an i-tunes pass available to purchase in May that includes his album and his singles. It is still unresolved as to whether or not the LLWD is/will be included in Kris’s i-tunes pass or not for Kris fans that purchased the i-tunes pass. I went ahead and bought the single anyway since I had not received it yet, but I am not the norm, and the singles were supposed to be part of Kris’s i-tunes pass. Kris fans were not expecting to purchase LLWD if they had already bought the i-tunes pass. On top of that alot of people including Kris fans, got for a free a really high quality LLWD given to them through ?All Access and ?other places too.

    Kris’s numbers have been skewed by Kris having an i-tunes pass all the way along. Since I bought the i-tunes pass and NoBo came with automatically, as a mega Kris fan I did not have a need to purchase NoBo separately and therefore many Kris fans are not included in the NoBo singles purchase chart. As for Kris’s i-tunes pass, I did notice that it charted on the i-tunes album chart for several weeks in May and June, but since numbers for Kris’s i-tunes pass have not been released, I really don’t know how many Kris fans pre-ordered Kris’s album in May and June. Plus, Kris fans have continued to buy the i-tunes pass since May, often flying under the radar, since there is not a concentrated bump.

    As for Kris’s album on Amazon, it has been available to purchase for over a couple of months, but since I already bought his album as part of the i-tunes pass, I had no need to pre-order it for myself on Amazon. All of the mega Kris fans that I know of, bought Kris’s i-tunes pass, so we don’t need to purchase it on Amazon now. I have noticed while looking at other albums, that Kris has been on the top sellers list on Amazon off and on, varying very widely. Kris has fans, but they are not organzied to give Kris the concentrated bump that he needs to rank high all at once.

    Where I think that a lot of Kris fans are different from other mega AI fans, is that Kris fans are more loosely organized and loosely structed. Kris fans fly under the radar, even the mega Kris fans, but they do exist. Kris fans have been pre-ordering since May. I think another difference is that a lot of the other AI fanbases are more likely to buy multiple copies or still purchase a single, even if they legally received it free or as part of the i-tunes package, while some Kris fans are expecting LLWD to be included in the i-tunes pass that they have already purchased.

    Another thing, is that even some mega Kris fans were turned off by Kris doing a cover that sounded too much like the Script, and wanted a Kris original instead (but that has already been discussed to death.)

  • bluejeans

    could upcoming PR for Adam actually help Kris? Kris’s name will get mentioned, people will go ‘oh yeah, the winner ‘“ let’s check him out too!’  and the song will get airplay?

    That’s giving Adam too much credit, imo. People are going to buy his music if they like it, not because he’s associated with Adam.

    ETA: Maybe Kris will be the kind of artiste that sells more albums than singles.

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    wipedaway
    September 30, 2009 at 11:18 am
    Okay, no offense but that’s just sad if Kris needs Adam’s PR to help him get sales.

    He needs to stand on his own two feet and either sink or swim on his own merits. Adam can’t carry him throughout his career and it’s not really beneficial to Kris if that really is what is happening.

    Well, actually I meant that since Kris is out of the country and his radio adds haven’t happened yet, perhaps the 19M strategy is to take whatever free PR is being generated before they spend their money. Kind of like how no official press has been done for Adam’s pre-order sales. Just riding the organic publicity until it’s time to execute the PR plan. I’m sure Jive and RCA are working in tandem with 19M. Perhaps this is their rationale.

    It’s still early in the game; Kris’s single is only available on iTunes – not CD yet (to my knowledge). Some people like the physical CD. And some people don’t use mp3 players.

    ETA: I’m involved in PR, which is where my comment stems from. Not because I think Kris needs anyone’s help getting publicity for his career. Just purely an observation of the trend that occurred this weekend and speculating how that trend might benefit Kris in the coming weeks while he is out of the country.

    ETA2: thank you to baseballmom for letting me know there are no CD singles anymore. Whoa. I’m older than I thought. ;)

  • alaadam

    Does anyone know Kris’s itunes pass numbers since that seems to be the basis of the argument for lower numbers?

  • isidra

    I really doubt Adam’s a factor in Jive’s promotion. My guess is they were planning to release it this week, but moved it to Friday to take advantage of last week’s media opportunities, since they can’t do much until he comes back from the UK.

    It seems like a good tactic, actually. His name is out there, and his song’s getting a good response and seems to be slowly but steadily gaining radio play.

    I was actually expecting a lower debut than what he actually got, considering all the factors, so I’m pretty happy with this. I think the song’s got a chance to do really well in the long run.

  • houstonrufus

    And for the Kris fans irritated by the media swoon over Adam, it’s a done deal. Adam is being positioned very, very well. IMO, best just to focus on Kris’ career, help him if you can, and hope for the best.

  • baseballmom

    Singles are not released as physical copies anymore….only digitally. It will be available on the album CD when it comes out of course.

  • Kirsten

    Does Glee have an album or just singles?

    The Glee Soundtrack (optimistically, but probably in reality, numbered “1”) will drop Nov 3rd (same day as Carrie).

    We’ll probably see an interesting effect in that week where the sales of Glee tracks will actually go negative as people “complete their album”. Every single they had previously purchased will be considered a return. It doesn’t happen often, but we do see that sometimes (e.g. with Taylor Swift when her album released). I bet that a lot of people picking up tracks as they are released will just want the entire album for a small incremental price.

    Note, iTunes will still show them selling well, but when we get the final DL numbers, they won’t be there. Just a prediction.

  • SashaB

    Even in David Cook’s case, he had a pretty solid first week with LO (103K, I believe) then the single tanked the following weeks.
    **

    David Cook’s first weeks of single sales:
    Week 1: 109K
    Week 2: 30,966
    Week 3:15,083
    Week 4: 33,598

    There was a drop from the initial week of sales, but not sure “tanked” fits the bill. There was also a huge surge with the holidays and iTunes gift card seasons. But yes, I do think radio play helped sell it over the months, if that was your point.

    Bottom line, Kris had a stunted sales week, so it’s hard to measure. I think it’s ridiculous that Jive went for a Friday release. Ridiculous. Where are the promos for Kris on iTunes this week?

  • BeckyMD

    I did a little search on the Itune pass thing. It’s like a ‘season ticket’ with which you can access to a suite of content (single, album, remix, etc) related to one artist for a fixed price before the pass expires.

    So if you already purchased Kris itune pass, you don’t need to pay anything for LLWD or his album if it’s released before itune pass expires. It doesn’t make sense to say that people who have ipass will hold on the single and wait for the album, because they don’t need to.

    Kirsten, do you know whether the ‘delivery’ of llwd to ipass owners get counted in the Billboard number? If not, the number is understating llwd sales.

  • jpfan

    That iTunes release on Friday without any ad for Kris was just useless.
    And not putting his picture on the single. Does that make any sense for such a cute guy?. Let’s just say they’re going for longevity and not a big bang type of promo..

  • http://mamadeb.livejournal.com mamadeb

    OTOH, if Kris is picking up sales on Amazon because of Adam’s release (whether out of curiosity, fanwars, cross-promo, whatnot), could upcoming PR for Adam actually help Kris? Kris’s name will get mentioned, people will go ‘oh yeah, the winner ‘“ let’s check him out too!’  and the song will get airplay?

    I sincerely think Kris’s people have made a mistake on this – while I agree that Kris shouldn’t ride on anyone’s coat-tails, they are there to be ridden on. Adam has made a point of publicizing friends, and Kris is his friend.

    And the iTunes pass thing shouldn’t be discounted – why WASN’T anyone told that the pass didn’t include the first single? That should have been put out there, as well as the fact that LLWD was going to be released for sale on Friday. Yes, Kris was the under-the-radar stealth winner, and he’s a low key guy anyway, but that’s just not the way to get attention or sales. This is wouldn’t be the time to be timid even if Adam didn’t exist. (Shudders at the thought.)

    Another thing, is that even some mega Kris fans were turned off by Kris doing a cover that sounded too much like the Script, and wanted a Kris original instead.

    I’m not a mega Kris fan, but I was disappointed in that. His *thing* is not just his (good but, imho, not special) voice, but his musicianship and his ability to make songs his own. It’s why the only time I didn’t vote for Adam, I voted for Kris. I hoped his first single would reflect that.

  • SashaB

    JPFan, seems like Jive is going for “anonymous longevity” — with no single photo. I’m starting to feel bad for Kris. This is just some bad marketing.

  • leome

    This is higher than DC’s at the same time period last year. DC with a Total Spin of 295 and an A.I. of 1.675.

    What’s funny about LO is that it started stronger on CHR. It had more spins on that format than LLWD has now but less on HAC. Ended up doing much better on HAC though. So yeah, first weeks can give the wrong picture. (I think TOML was still getting tons of spins on HAC, maybe that’s why LO started slower in that format)
    Neverthless, it’s hard to compare the two because LO had 0 radio promo, and LLWD has had great radio promo. Compared to Tattoo and Crush, songs that had the same kind of debut it’s going way slower. But each song has its life, this one can really pick up, especially if Z100 decides to give it a chance.

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    baseballmom
    September 30, 2009 at 11:27 am
    Singles are not released as physical copies anymore’ ¦.only digitally. It will be available on the album CD when it comes out of course.

    I did not know that! I personally buy most everything digitally, but since I see single remixes (Lady Gaga) and EPs available on CD, I assumed CD singles were still around. Wow, I really am showing my age. ;)

  • mickeybordentwo

    If publicity for Kris’s single was stunted because Kris is out of the country, then why was a trip out of the country scheduled for immediately after the release of his single?

    Kris would be busy working on his CD regardless of where he is right now. But if he needed to make additional appearances or phone calls or whatever, why not schedule the London trip a week or two earlier or a week or two later?

  • AnninSD

    He doesn’t have a huge, dedicated fanbase to do the heavy lifting in the early days.

    I thought Kris won american idol with millions of voters/viewers – isn’t that a dedicated fan base?

    Twitter is a great marketing tool so word spread that way that the song was available. IMO, even if it was only 3 days of sales it should’ve done better than 15K…

    I can see your point here since almost all of the idols twittered to their followers about it.

    Ipass pre-purchase or not I would think Kris supporters would have bought the single like I did.
    And definitely news via twitter should have boosted sales 3 days vs. 7 days sales or not.
    Kris Fans – what happened? Singles are really only a click away these days since physical singles are non-existent. The internet doesn’t close, it’s open for business 24/7

    maybe sales will increase when he starts the media rounds…

  • bluejeans

    seems like Jive is going for ‘anonymous longevity’  ‘” with no single photo. I’m starting to feel bad for Kris. This is just some bad marketing.

    I see your point re the anonymous longevity thing but am I the only one who like his cover art? I was pleased that it’s not a mugshot like Cook’s or Archie’s. I think LLWD’s cover art is cool.

  • vanjess38

    I strongly believe this figure is mostly for those of us who had the information on twitter and readily downloaded it on Friday.
    If we look at the way iit fared on the chart over the weekend , you could tell a lot of folks were not aware of the friday release. I therefore strongly believe we will see a big increase for this week.
    If I may ask, is this figure for FRIDAY-SUNDAY?

  • golcook

    I agree that he has a weak fanbase, you can also see it in the number of fans connected to his site (average: 50) in comparison with Cook’s (average 1,300). It’s sad to see this, hopefully when the album comes out he’ll gain many fans based on his music.

    I think he’ll do just fine. Go Kris!

  • lifeisgood

    RE:Coronation song comparison chart

    I think that chart shows that higher initial sales are not indicative of future success.

  • SashaB

    I see your point re the anonymous longevity thing but am I the only one who like his cover art? I was pleased that it’s not a mugshot like Cook’s or Archie’s. I think LLWD’s cover art is cool.

    **
    It might be a cool cover, but Kris needs eyeballs that recognize his face along with his name on iTunes — for those Idol viewers, too, since he’s relying on them at this juncture. He’s not a brand name yet. And even those w/a recognizable name like Carrie and Kelly still have a photo shot on their singles.

    ETA: I was actually snarking or being tongue in cheek about the “anonymous longevity” …

  • Trina

    Neverthless, it’s hard to compare the two because LO had 0 radio promo, and LLWD has had great radio promo. Compared to Tattoo and Crush, songs that had the same kind of debut it’s going way slower. But each song has its life, this one can really pick up, especially if Z100 decides to give it a chance.

    Exactly he didn’t have a Z100 premiere. Funny thing is at the time I was pissed he didn’t get that because I assumed Z100 premiering a song would give it an immediate push towards other stations adding/spinning it. Oops..Tattoo I don’t remember much at all but yea, Crush I heard TONS immediately after the premiere. It also made the 9@9 countdown that night.

    About the crappy single cover. FWIW the song Battlefield also had initially a cover with no picture and so did Daughtry’s No Surprise. It’s still annoying though because this is a debut single from a new artist.

  • KellysDecember

    Well while everyone else is anyalyzing everything under the sun, I just wanna say way to go Kelly! While AIEW may not be a mega smash album, it is holding it’s own and the singles are certainly doing their job!

  • BeckyMD

    llwd debut in z100 and Ryan introduced it in KISS, Kris also did several interviews, MTV, EW, Yahoo music reported the debut. What else did previous idols do to promote their single in the debut week?

    What jarring is the release on Friday which leads to the low number we see today. If the single were released on Tuesday, it may have chart higher. In a total imaginary scenario, say it charts #5, MJ may blog it, the news may be picked up by other media, and the (free) promotion continue on till Jiva launch more formal promotion, and Kris remains on public eyes. In reality, the number is not very exciting and it’s not a positive thing to talk about or circulate around the internet (twitter).

    If Kris is not able to do promotion this week in US because he is in London, then there will be a silent week between llwd’s debut and its formal promotion. It’s not a fast way to cumulate public attention.

    But of course Jiva may have another approach to get llwd public awareness. We just need to wait and see how it is unfolded.

  • bluejeans

    ETA: I was actually snarking or being tongue in cheek about the ‘anonymous longevity’  ‘ ¦

    Heh. Yeah, I got it the first time I read it and giggled. (: I meant to say I got your point about reminding people who Kris Allen is.

  • lucy

    I thought Kris won american idol with millions of voters/viewers ‘“ isn’t that a dedicated fan base?

    You never know whether a fanbase for your tv appearance will turn out to be a fanbase for your music.

    Jordin also won with millions of votes and Blake came in second with millions of votes. But those both turned out to be tv-appearance fanbases but not so much music-buying fanbases.

    Jordin ultimately picked up a big outside-of-AI fanbase, as witnessed by her singles sales. But that brings up another difference and something you apparently can’t tell from the outset. She has quite a big single-buying fanbase but not nearly as big an album-buying fanbase. Kim Locke of season two has something similar — a string of very hot radio singles — so a radio-single fanbase — but low album sales, so, no album-buying fanbase.

    Not all fanbases are equal, in other words. And you don’t know what kind you’ve got until some history has passed, it seems.

  • Mary102

    Bottom line for me, I think it’s a good enough first single for a modest hit. It just needs the push and promotion. Proper appearances on TV and all that. Jive? 19?

    Me thinks a lot more promotion will happen further down the road, when there is more physical product to push (e.g. – not till mid-October, leading up to the album release, with more media appearances, etc.) Jive can’t spend all the money at once, and the need to finish the album now takes precedence.

    Speaking on behalf of myself, a mega Kris fan. (I apologize in advance for the book-length post.) Two things to consider.

    Soapbox, thank you for the post, especially as a representative of the “mega Kris” fans ;-) What I took from it was this:

    Someone really screwed up with marketing, for, as a mega-fan, you to be personally so confused about the itunes pass question, the single release date, etc. That is just not an ideal situation for ANYONE to be in when they’re trying to sell a product. And I’ve heard many comments about the confusions surrounding the itunes pass thing – not marketed well at all, imo.

  • http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com Buderschnookie

    Is there a chart or list easily available that has first week single (not album) numbers for all seasons of Idol?
    Not coronation, but first real single?

  • Michelle

    Boat anchor, boat anchor! oh wait, what year is this? ;)

    I agree that it will have to grow “organically”, which is fitting since one of the many adjectives attached to Kris is “organic”. If PDs can get over Idol Fatigue and give the song a chance, I think it should do well.

  • dhunken

    Kim Locke of season two has something similar ‘” a string of very hot radio singles ‘” so a radio-single fanbase ‘” but low album sales, so, no album-buying fanbase.

    I love Kim but your correct she also had 3 number 1 dance hits and 3 A/C number 1 hits. I think she had one of the best pop singles to come out of Idol “8th World Wonder”. But all this never translated to album sales. I was sad by this because she was my favorite from season 2

  • lucy

    I love Kim but your correct she also had 3 number 1 dance hits and 3 A/C number 1 hits. I think she had one of the best pop singles to come out of Idol ‘8th World Wonder’ . But all this never translated to album sales. I was sad by this because she was my favorite from season 2

    I agree!

    I mentioned this because it’s always puzzled the heck out of me why Kim’s albums haven’t done better. She’s done *many* brilliant songs, in my opinion, and I adore “8th World Wonder” as you do. I would have thought that song had the same chance as Elliott’s Wait for You (a *big* chance, in other words) of hitting it big. I guess the indie curse got her. But Elliott has that too and he’s managed to get more traction than Kim. And she’s smart and a hard worker, too, besides having put out some excellent music. Very puzzling.

  • girlygirl

    LLWD is moving back up the charts. It’s at #29 overall and #13 pop on iTunes charts right now. And his pre-order on amazon.com has jumped as well. Last I looked, he was at #57 on the bestseller chart. LLWD is picking up spins on the various radio stations, and this is still 2 weeks before his official “add” date. I figure once he gets back London, Kris will probably do some more promo — and maybe start to get on the tv talk shows once it is a little closer to the album drop date.

    We also have to remember that there was no iTunes Pass prior to this year, so Kris’ sales really can’t be compared to any prior Idol contestant until those iTunes pass numbers are figured in.

    I think Kris will do fine. It’s ridiculous some media (Movieline, I’m looking at you) are trying to claim Kris has already flopped. Very few musicians have singles or albums debut at #1 — it’s far more common to climb charts over the course of weeks, or even months.

  • wipedaway

    I can’t speak for anyone else but I bought the itunes pass AND I bought the single. It was $1.29 spent to show my support for Kris, not too much to ask IMO.

    I think it’s too soon to tell how it will all pan out but it’s looking more and more like people were voting against Adam rather than voting FOR Kris and that will likely be reflected in his sales which makes me sad for Kris because he’s a very talented artist and IMO will not be able to overcome the shadow if he doesn’t live up to expectations placed on him as the winner.

  • IndyMuse

    I have to note in passing that major singles released to iTunes usually get promo banners somewhere – in their genre, or even the front page. This does help drive sales. The absence of this is inexcusable for an Idol winner. It does seem like little effort is being made. The radio debut only reaches a few people, not the general buying public. ITunes banners are prominent for the average buyer.

    Pre-sales of albums, on the other hand, don’t typically get press. It is therefore not worth noting that Adam’s CD did not have this, as its competitors didn’t, either.

    Some of these number issues will not be truly sorted out until the album debuts. Then we’ll know the answer to the mystery of the pre-order numbers and iTunes pass numbers. Will iTunes pass sales get counted in first week sales, like the pre-orders?

  • Michelle

    Well, Z100 is spinning LLWD right now.

  • alaadam

    You never know whether a fanbase for your tv appearance will turn out to be a fanbase for your music.

    I think this is a problem with Kris too. The people that I know that voted for Kris have not and do not plan to buy his music. As a matter of fact, they won’t be buying anyone’s music. They don’t have ipods and they don’t buy music-period. BUT< they love American Idol. They love watching the show and picking the winner. They talk about it at the water cooler and lunch meetings. You would think they were die-hard. Afterwards, they don't have a care in the world about it. They just shrug their shoulders when I give them an update.

  • Kirsten

    Boat anchor, boat anchor! oh wait, what year is this?

    Nobody started calling “Light On” a boat anchor until early November last year. Most people, including me, thought “Light On” had good first week numbers.

  • Truthiness

    Well I maintain that it’s way too early to predict whether this will be a successful song for Kris, I think it will. Sure it’s having a slow start, but the evidence that has been brought forth to this thread already shows that isn’t the end of the world for singles that eventually became successful for AI peeps. And the indicators, like increased spins, going up on the iTunes charts, and Amazon pre-orders, seems to indicate that Kris is seeing increases and I think, will climb.

  • Kirsten

    Will iTunes pass sales get counted in first week sales, like the pre-orders?

    I think they will be counted in the first week sales as album sales.

  • springboard

    I have to note in passing that major singles released to iTunes usually get promo banners somewhere ‘“ in their genre, or even the front page. This does help drive sales. The absence of this is inexcusable for an Idol winner.

    It is how they do it, it was the same for Cook last year. He even had less promotion as he didn’t have radio shows.

  • alaadam

    I think it’s too soon to tell how it will all pan out but it’s looking more and more like people were voting against Adam rather than voting FOR Kris and that will likely be reflected in his sales which makes me sad for Kris because he’s a very talented artist and IMO will not be able to overcome the shadow if he doesn’t live up to expectations placed on him as the winner.

    I have believed this from day one!

  • lucy

    I have to note in passing that major singles released to iTunes usually get promo banners somewhere ‘“ in their genre, or even the front page. This does help drive sales. The absence of this is inexcusable for an Idol winner.

    This is the only really troubling thing to me. Wonder why the heck they didn’t do this? You can’t buy the song if you don’t know it exists.

  • Valentin432

    could upcoming PR for Adam actually help Kris? Kris’s name will get mentioned, people will go ‘oh yeah, the winner ‘“ let’s check him out too!’  and the song will get airplay?

    IMO, the press around Adam has had a bad effect on Kris sales.
    Kris does get mentioned very often but it has been very bad press. The tour was full of bad reviews for him in comparison to Adam and now we already see some “Adam is the true winner” headlines after only half a week of sales.

    In the long term maybee the good reviews he is getting for his single will overcome that, but until now he has been burried under Adam’s hype.

    THat’s the main difference with Jordin too, she had no competition, after Blake tanked she was the only idol getting media coverage that year.

  • Kirsten

    Okay, no offense but that’s just sad if Kris needs Adam’s PR to help him get sales.

    He needs to stand on his own two feet and either sink or swim on his own merits. Adam can’t carry him throughout his career and it’s not really beneficial to Kris if that really is what is happening.

    Idols are always somewhat linked. One Idol doing something can increase the sales of other Idols. Especially, if they are Idols from the same season. People see one Idol and think, “Hey, what about that other dude I liked? Woah. I didn’t know he had a single/album out. About bloody time. I’ve been waiting forever to buy it.”

    It’s just the nature of the beast. We often also see an uptick when the adds for American Idol and the season itself starts. Most people simply aren’t paying enough attention.

  • Kirsten

    I think it’s too soon to tell how it will all pan out but it’s looking more and more like people were voting against Adam rather than voting FOR Kris and that will likely be reflected in his sales

    This is always endlessy debated. Why did one person win and all the other people lose. Because we don’t have the true numbers and we’ll never know the motivations of all the voters, all we can do is speculate.

    Just because Kellie Pickler was the second best seller of her year, does it really mean that she was the second best singer, should have come in second and that it was only the “Hate the ditzy blonde” vote preventing her from coming in second (instead of sixth)? It’s possible, but it is not the only explanation, IMO.

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    Kirsten
    September 30, 2009 at 12:58 pm
    Idols are always somewhat linked. One Idol doing something can increase the sales of other Idols. Especially, if they are Idols from the same season. People see one Idol and think, ‘Hey, what about that other dude I liked? Woah. I didn’t know he had a single/album out. About bloody time. I’ve been waiting forever to buy it.’ 

    I noticed an increase in Jason Castro’s album pre-sales as well since Sunday. And in the “Customers who bought this also bought” under Adam’s debut, Kris, Carrie, Kelly, Taylor, David A, even Chris Sligh are all listed in the scroll panel. So, I’m with Kirsten on this. Sales-wise, Kris is benefiting at the moment, even if he’s not benefiting publicity-wise necessarily. Hopefully when Kris’s real PR campaign hits, there will be greater reward!

  • erenguest

    I have to agree that Kris Allen will be better off not quitting his day job. These numbers are dismal. On the other hand Susan Boyle will be a bigger star than Madonna, Barbara Streisand and Brittney Spears combined just by looking at her Amazon numbers. 30 days in the top 100!!! Without even a single out. No previous album, no one has any idea what it will sound like and it still is selling like crazy. She wasn’t even on an American show, people didn’t get to see her week after week after week being brilliant. I think people spoke and declared the true winners: SUSAN BOYLE and ADAM LAMBERT.

  • Kirsten

    Okay people, I’ve never edited somebody before, so don’t make me start.

    I don’t think that debating the relative qualities of sucky coronation singles and inter-season fanwarring is a relevant topic for today’s numbers thread when not a single solitary coronation single is charting today.

    Please cease and desist.

  • BeckyMD

    If Seinfeld had read AI board, he might re-think this line: “You can’t over die, you can’t over dry.”

  • Studio57

    And in the ‘Customers who bought this also bought’  under Adam’s debut, Kris, Carrie, Kelly, Taylor, David A, even Chris Sligh are all listed in the scroll panel.

    You know what else? If you click on the “Customers who bought….” section on Kris’ album, Adam isn’t on there at all. 16 pages of it. At least it wasn’t yesterday, so does this mean that only Adam fans are buying off Amazon, or that Kris fans are not buying Adam’s album after buying Kris’? Or is it a glitch of some kind?

    ETA: MUST HAVE BEEN A GLITCH- IT’S THERE TODAY

  • Trina

    If Susan Boyle became even a 1/4 of the star Streisand or Madonna is I’ll die of shock. Paul Potts, another UK sensation also kicked ass on Amazon and his overall sales aren’t all that great.

  • evanjane

    ‘Bottom line, Kris had a stunted sales week, so it’s hard to measure. I think it’s ridiculous that Jive went for a Friday release. Ridiculous. Where are the promos for Kris on iTunes this week?’ –SashaB

    I’m not in the marketing field so I definitely am at lost as to how Jive is playing this thing out. Kris’s post-idol numbers showed strength. People bought then. The question is where are they now? Are they waiting for the CD?

    No matter how important it is to get spins on Z100 and Ryan’s show, most didn’t hear it. I live in Connecticut, I am not in Z100’s listening area, so I can safely assume most of the U.S. didn’t even hear the premier. Ryan’s show is now on 95.7 KSS in CT, so I was able to listen to it. Most who knew about the radio promotions found out through AI fan groups and blogs. In other words, those not in the listening area didn’t hear the premier of LLWD.

    The radio spins big stations can bring is great, but it’s on the local level State by State that’s going to reach the hordes.

    I may be a cynic by nature, but even I can’t believe Jive would be so inept, so blantantly obvious about whom they might or might not favor. I don’t buy the “throwing Kris under the bus”. I’m not in the music industry, but I even I can see the potentional that Kris has in the music world. To have an artist with this much crossover potential and not nuture it or work with it is bottom-line a bad business move. I am of the school of thought that Kris can do well in Top 40, Hot AC, Country, Christian, and even Rhy, depending on the song.

    “It is how they do it, it was the same for Cook last year. He even had less promotion as he didn’t have radio shows.” — Springboard

    David Cook’s single went to I-tunes with little promotion. He did well capturing sales from his Idol fanbase. The day after his single was on I-tunes, the promotion began with large front page visibility, none of which Kris had. His single was also released on a Tuesday.

    It is what it is, numbers speak for themselves, but I’m not throwing in the towel just yet. I think the single will pick up momentum and perhaps, though not hitting #1 will remain steady in sales before the album is released. If the song can hang on I-tunes Top 100 list, mid-pack, that’s okay. People perusing the song list might take notice of it and buy it.

    The song has gotten “critical” praise. I hope for commerical success as well.

  • girlygirl

    Kris shouldn’t be blamed for the fact LLWD was released on Friday, rather than Tuesday. That obviously wasn’t his decision. I happen to believe it’s probably not that easy to crack the Top 100 when you only have 3 days of sales to go by. Let’s wait and see whether the single jumps up the charts in the next few weeks before making any sweeping statements about his success or failure.

    Some people on this board seem awfully eager to bury Kris. Are you going to do the same to Allison is her single doesn’t soar right to the top of the charts? Because she appears to have much less of a fanbase than either Kris or Adam. Personally, I think it’s unfair to any of the Idols to try and bury them or write them off as failures so quickly. To me, it makes more sense to wait and see how they are doing 6 months or a year from now — that’s a much better indicator of success/failure than basing opinions on less than one week of sales/radio play.

  • Kirsten

    Okay, my pleads went unheaded. I’ve deleted all comments related to who could have sung whichever coronation single better.

    Stop it.

  • CindyM

    I think the single will pick up momentum and perhaps, though not hitting #1 will remain steady in sales before the album is released. If the song can hang on I-tunes Top 100 list, mid-pack, that’s okay. People perusing the song list might take notice of it and buy it.

    I think this is definitely true. Once radio starts playing it, it will do better. I also am confused about the Itunes banner, I could see it not being there on Friday if there was some rush to release, but there should have been a banner push on Tuesday. I still don’t understand what the rush was for the Friday release and why they didn’t wait until Tuesday. There were no huge “planned” press announcements yesterday by any of the other idols.

  • frogcooke

    I remember El Plan fondly…. The cake, its a lie.

    And Kris wont get rhythmic play.. you’d have to be kidding yourself to believe that. No way.

  • CindyM

    Sorry Kirsten, I posted before I saw your plea.

  • shanz88

    I’ve seen a lot of mentions that Kris has no iTunes ads in the store. That is not true. He does have some…go to the “Music” page and there’s one, and his single is also under “What’s Hot.” On the main store page, his single shows up under new single releases. Also, in the “Pop” page, he has an ad.

    It’s difficult to compare the advertising between this year and last year… we’re dealing with a new version of iTunes that heavily revamped its store layout. The giant ads on the music pages are really only reserved for albums. No singles. Singles get the small ads.

    I’m sure when Kris’s album is released, he will have a big ad.

  • girlygirl

    Adam couldn’t have made NoBo a hit, either. I don’t think his studio version of it is really any better than Kris’ version. That song simply BLOWS. And Adam hates it — he would’ve quickly dropped it from his set, just as Kris did.

    It’s my understanding that the two highest selling singles on iTunes from the actual AI8 show are Kris’ version of NoBo and Heartless, followed by Adam’s version of Mad World. So if Adam’s Mad World couldn’t outsell Heartless, I’m not sure how people think his version of NoBo would have done much better than Kris’ version. It might have sold slightly better, but it still wouldn’t have been a hit. Not either guy’s fault — as I say, that song BLOWS.

  • Ladyguard

    I thought Kris won american idol with millions of voters/viewers ‘“ isn’t that a dedicated fan base?

    With people being allowed to vote 1000’s of times in a night….who knows how big any one of these people’s fanbases are. Chris Daughtry sales proved his fanbase was bigger than Taylors’ even though Taylor won and Chris was voted off in fourth position.

  • Kirsten

    And Kris wont get rhythmic play.. you’d have to be kidding yourself to believe that. No way.

    LOL. LLWD got two spins on Rhythmic last week. Even Carrie and Daughtry have managed Rhythmic spins (with hot remixes).

  • Kirsten

    Chris Daughtry proved his fanbase was bigger than Taylors even though Taylor won and Chris was voted off in fourth position.

    I’m willing to give Daughtry credit that he gained a lot of new fans with music people wanted to hear. I don’t think he road his Idol fan base to 5M in sales. JMO.

    That said, please, no Season 5 fanwaring. Pretty please. With a cherry on top? I’ll even throw in some whipped cream and Nutella.

  • frogcooke

    Minimal rhythmic spins. Crush got those too rofl. I mean significant airplay on rhythmic. A few here and there is nada.

  • sr4mjc

    All this talk about Kris failing already is ridiculous. It’s been less than a week on itunes! I haven’t heard the song once in my market, but once it picks up adds it will pick up numbers.

    As for Adam, he’s showing decent numbers but we haven’t seen if he’ll get radio support either. Only time will tell. And I don’t like all the comparisons either. I wish them all luck.

  • Kirsten

    Minimal rhythmic spins. Crush got those too rofl. I mean significant airplay on rhythmic.

    LOL. That I can agree with. I just thought it was funny that it did have spins. If I’m anything, I’m pedantic.

  • frogcooke

    “LOL. That I can agree with. I just thought it was funny that it did have spins. If I’m anything, I’m pedantic.”

    lol yeah.

  • leome

    LOL. LLWD got two spins on Rhythmic last week. Even Carrie and Daughtry have managed Rhythmic spins (with hot remixes).

    I assume frog was talking about significant airplay. Most idols songs get one or another spin is some different formats now and then. But not relevant enough.

    ETA: Ups! Late

  • Studio57

    It’s my understanding that the two highest selling singles on iTunes from the actual AI8 show are Kris’ version of NoBo and Heartless, followed by Adam’s version of Mad World. So if Adam’s Mad World couldn’t outsell Heartless

    You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

  • frogcooke

    Got to be a bit faster there Leome. haha

  • girlygirl

    Studio57

    Um…

    the USA Today Idol tracker had sales figures for all those songs awhile back…at the time of that article, NoBo and Heartless were both outselling Mad World.

  • summerskin

    Um’ ¦

    the USA Today Idol tracker had sales figures for all those songs awhile back’ ¦at the time of that article, NoBo and Heartless were both outselling Mad World.

    Those sales figures were post-finale though, so there’s the winner’s boost to consider and all that. We have no numbers for how the songs sold during the season (total sales). And based on those leaked popularity bars, Mad World was out selling everything by a lot.

  • CindyM

    It’s my understanding that the two highest selling singles on iTunes from the actual AI8 show are Kris’ version of NoBo and Heartless, followed by Adam’s version of Mad World. So if Adam’s Mad World couldn’t outsell Heartless, I’m not sure how people think his version of NoBo would have done much better than Kris’ version. It might have sold slightly better, but it still wouldn’t have been a hit. Not either guy’s fault ‘” as I say, that song BLOWS.

    You don’t know that’s true. You’re making a guess based on very incomplete data. Mad World was Top 8 week, we know the sales of that were huge when the “itunes leak” happened. Adam had 6 of the top 10 on the list, Kris had 3 and Danny had 1. Mad World was leading the bunch. We only know the numbers after the finale. Since Heartless was performed only 1 week before the end of the show, I would imagine that sales of it would be higher after the finale than Mad World which was had already been sold for 6 weeks.

  • girlygirl

    I have never heard David Archuleta on the radio here in L.A. Nor have I ever heard Jordin or Reuben or Fantasia or Taylor. In fact, the only Idol I hear on the radio on any regular basis is Kelly. I heard Carrie’s “Before He Cheats” about 1 zillion times, but I haven’t heard any of her other songs played on the rock or pop stations here. The only time I hear Cook or Daughtry is if I’m in the 7-11…the store plays 104.3 FM for their background music. I haven’t heard either of them on either of the 2 stations I tend to listen to (98.7 FM and KROQ).

  • pjd

    It’s my understanding that the two highest selling singles on iTunes from the actual AI8 show are Kris’ version of NoBo and Heartless, followed by Adam’s version of Mad World. So if Adam’s Mad World couldn’t outsell Heartless

    Huh? Where on earth did you get those numbers? Did they get released recently and we missed it?

  • girlygirl

    I am basing this on what I saw in USA Today — which was TOTAL sales, not weekly sales. At the time of the article, Heartless and NoBo both had more TOTAL sales than Mad World.

    NOTE: That article was weeks ago — I haven’t seen any recent sales totals, so it’s entirely possible that Mad World could have surpassed both of Kris’ songs since then…although I’m not sure you can even still buy any of these, or if they were all taken down from iTunes. I haven’t bothered to check. (oka, I went on wikipedia to check: Mad World peaked at #19 on the digital songs chart — Kris’ version of Heartless peaked at #16 on the same chart; neither of these cracked the Billboard Top 100; Kris’ version of NoBo peaked at #11 on the Billboard Top 100 chart; there’s no listing on wikipedia for NoBo’s digital rank — I know it made the Top 5 briefly, though)

    And I only brought this up as a way of saying that Adam wouldn’t have been able to make NoBo a hit either. I am making NO claims about Adam’s future or who will outsell who as a solo artist. I was JUST talking about how no one could have made that crap corronation song into a hit.

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    Hmm, did someone say whipped cream and nutella? YUM

    I just talked with someone I work with that went to one of the Idol shows with me. She had no idea that Kris’s single was out and played on the radio last week and she voted for him. There is a big world out there beyond the Idolsphere…I think we’ll see a different scenario when LLWD goes for its adds. That’s two more weeks of minimal to moderate spins before the big push, right?

  • Kirsten

    Okay, can we just say that reported sales tell us one thing, but we’ll never know the true story? Until Nigel writes a tell-all book (I know he wasn’t on this season, but I just have the feeling he has a tell-all book in his future. That guy likes the limelight and could barely avoid spoiling things in his radio interviews).

    We know the reported numbers, everything else is speculation (based on limited info). I suspect that Adam has the highest overall numbers for the entire season, but I cannot prove it. I know that Kris has the highest reported numbers.

  • Studio57

    Um’ ¦

    the USA Today Idol tracker had sales figures for all those songs awhile back’ ¦at the time of that article, NoBo and Heartless were both outselling Mad World.

    Mad World was several weeks old by the time they showed the songs charting. Also, when MJ showed the leak in the middle of the season, not only was Mad World the best selling single, Adam had 6 of the top 10 idol songs

  • PattyH

    I am basing this on what I saw in USA Today ‘” which was TOTAL sales, not weekly sales. At the time of the article, Heartless and NoBo both had more TOTAL sales than Mad World.

    That was totally based on what was sold the finale week. All the sales from the weeks, during the show, were not allowed to be made public.
    The leak, that someone spoke of above, indicates that MW was selling like crazy, during the season.

  • Matt

    David Cook’s first weeks of single sales:
    Week 1: 109K
    Week 2: 30,966
    Week 3:15,083
    Week 4: 33,598

    There was a drop from the initial week of sales, but not sure ‘tanked’  fits the bill. There was also a huge surge with the holidays and iTunes gift card seasons. But yes, I do think radio play helped sell it over the months, if that was your point.

    Hey Sasha, thanks for the numbers. I wasn’t sure, but I knew that LO peaked at 3 on itunes during that first week, then the following weeks it nearly fell out of the top 100 entirely. But yes, my point was that LO had a drop, people were calling it a flop (albeit prematurely), and some wanted a new single by December. Then, around the time the new Idol season started up, it began to thrive and I believe stations were playing it more (don’t hold me to the latter).

    So point is: first week sales are pretty meaningless in the longrun.

  • CindyM

    girlygirl
    September 30, 2009 at 2:11 pm
    I am basing this on what I saw in USA Today ‘” which was TOTAL sales, not weekly sales. At the time of the article, Heartless and NoBo both had more TOTAL sales than Mad World.

    Well, this was USA Today’s starting point, From their May 28, 2009 Post-Finale chart:

    Kris Allen, No Boundaries (134,000, debut, 134,000 total)
    Kris Allen, Heartless (American Idol Studio Version) (125,000, debut, 125,000)
    Adam Lambert, Mad World (American Idol Studio Version) (115,000 debut, 115,000)

    There is no cumulative total there for prior weeks. They are all three listed as debut numbers. The USA Today figures are from Post-Finale. So like I said, there is no clear indication that Mad World which was released 6 weeks prior to Heartless finished behind either No Boundaries or Heartless. I’m not saying it did, but it can not be definitively stated it didn’t.

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2009/05/67370685/1

  • Michelle

    Just to clarify, I was snarking about the boat anchor, because obviously LO turned out to not be a boat anchor and DC’s album did platinum-fine :)

    What I meant is that it is way too early to predict the entire sales potential of Kris’ (or anyone’s album) from first week sales of a single that started on a Friday and is just getting started on radio.

  • Kirsten

    I just talked with someone I work with that went to one of the Idol shows with me. She had no idea that Kris’s single was out and played on the radio last week and she voted for him. There is a big world out there beyond the Idolsphere’ ¦

    Very true. The vast majority of the people don’t follow these things too closely. That’s why PR campaigns are so important.

    I think we’ll see a different scenario when LLWD goes for its adds. That’s two more weeks of minimal to moderate spins before the big push, right?

    Just be warned that a radio add date is not a silver bullet. We will likely not see a significant change at that point. It’s a date where radio stations are asked to add the song, but that doesn’t mean the floodgates will necessarily open. Some will add it, most will wait.

    I don’t mean to be a downer, but people often hold out hope that once such-and-such an event occurs, the album/single will sky-rocket. It may have a temporary effect, but it’s the long, hard slog that makes something a true hit in most cases.

  • frogcooke

    “That’s two more weeks of minimal to moderate spins before the big push, right?”

    Oh yes, the big push… I too remember this fondly as well…. The cake, its still a lie.

    (also what kirsten said)

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    girlygirl
    September 30, 2009 at 2:08 pm
    I have never heard David Archuleta on the radio here in L.A. Nor have I ever heard Jordin or Reuben or Fantasia or Taylor. In fact, the only Idol I hear on the radio on any regular basis is Kelly. I heard Carrie’s ‘Before He Cheats’  about 1 zillion times, but I haven’t heard any of her other songs played on the rock or pop stations here. The only time I hear Cook or Daughtry is if I’m in the 7-11′ ¦the store plays 104.3 FM for their background music. I haven’t heard either of them on either of the 2 stations I tend to listen to (98.7 FM and KROQ).

    That’s interesting, girlygirl. I actually hear Jordin Sparks several times a day when I’m listening to WPLJ here in NY. Is it an east coast-west coast thing? Daughtry, Cook, and Kelly are all in high rotation, at least during the morning and evening drives. Carrie gets some play as well. I will say, I’ve *never* heard Ruben, Fantasia, or Taylor. Clay got airplay years ago for “Invisible” and then nothing. Archuleta’s “Crush” played a bit but I never hear that anymore either.

    Since I’m not a regular AI watcher, I’d have no way of knowing who these folks are (especially Jordin and Cook since I didn’t see those seasons at all) except that they get played here regularly. Maybe it’s because WPLJ is a Hot AC (which I only found out yesterday…I thought it was Top 40. Doh!), so the playlists may be very different from the stations you listed? In any case, I’m envisioning Kris will get a lot of airplay on PLJ based on the amount of Idol alumni that already get spins.

    I’m already looking forward to Kris’s numbers for next week. And so impressed with Glee! (And yes, I’ve heard “Don’t Stop Believing” on the radio, though it may have been Z100…)

  • AllenTX

    I would have had him doing 30 phone in interviews to radio stations daily, as well as appearances.

    I really don’t get how AI fans are complaining about lack of promo. Do you know anybody really getting that kind of promo from singles to album release. As far as I know, only superstahs get as much promos as AIers. Comparing to Kris’ single promo, even some established singers who’s sold tens of millions albums don’t get any big radio promo for their singles like Kris did. So really…..

  • Michelle

    Airplay is the promo. If a station would spin LLWD a 50 times a week I would take that over a 5 minute interview with some morning DJ who will probably be obnoxious.

  • SashaB

    “I knew that LO peaked at 3 on itunes during that first week, then the following weeks it nearly fell out of the top 100 entirely.”
    **

    Uh, no, that’s not quite what happened. But okay then. Not going to repost all of Light On’s weekly sales since this is about current sales.

    Anyhow, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Kris is “tanking”. What is apparent, is that he is getting no visible help from Jive or 19E — as the Idol Winner, you’d think that there would be an iTunes banner ad at the very least. 19E has a pretty tight relationship with iTunes. Even Jason Castro and Brooke White got banner ads when their respective singles dropped. It’s really unfortunate for Kris.

    And truly, can anyone explain why they chose to make this available on Friday rather than this past Tuesday? (9/28)

  • girlygirl

    There are ads for Kris on iTunes now, although I don’t think there’s one on the front page.

    As I said, once he comes back from London, I would bet Kris will be doing a lot more promo.

  • shanz88

    Anyhow, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Kris is ‘tanking’ . What is apparent, is that he is getting no visible help from Jive or 19E ‘” as the Idol Winner, you’d think that there would be an iTunes banner ad at the very least. 19E has a pretty tight relationship with iTunes. Even Jason Castro and Brooke White got banner ads when their respective singles dropped. It’s really unfortunate for Kris.

    There ARE ads for Kris! Read my post

  • HermeticallySealed

    The cake, its still a lie.

    ::snaugh::

    You will be baked, then there will be cake.

    Seriously though, it really is too early for us to know with any certainty about Kris’ success. Give it a year, then we can declare him a ruin or successful.

  • Trina

    The iTunes sales figures for the entire season, well I’m sure all fanbases would kill for them. I still would love to have them for season 7 as well. The only difference with season 7 was that while we didn’t have actual totals for the week, we did see those popularity bars on iTunes every week. The totals given on USA don’t tell the whole story.

  • Matt

    Uh, no, that’s not quite what happened. But okay then. Not going to repost all of Light On’s weekly sales since this is about current sales.

    I actually vividly remember it, and an interviewer even asked DC about it around the time it happened. I don’t know the exact numbers because, quite frankly, I don’t care. I’m not arguing that it didn’t sell a specific amount, I’m talking what I recalled from itunes at the time, as I checked on it multiple times every day. So yes, it did nearly fall out of the itunes top 100. But okay.

    BTW, there are ads for Kris.

    The entire point of my original though had nothing to do with DC, rather a comparison to he and Jordin as a point to show that this is a long process. That was the point. As somebody else mentioned, even if radio’s add the song, it doesn’t mean it will be played. But I LLWD is a catchy-as-hell-made-for-pop-radio type of song, so I expect this single to be a success.

  • evanjane

    “I have to agree that Kris Allen will be better off not quitting his day” — job.” — erenguest

    He didn’t have one. I believe he stated during Hollywood Week that he didn’t want to be a Househusband forever. Simon got quite a kick out of it. So did I. ::grin::

    Heartless got a couple of rhythmic spins. I said possibly depending on the song — who knows what this kid has up his sleeve. I doubt it will happen, but never say never…

    I must be uninformed what’s with the cake, Frogcooke? “have your cake and eat it too?” “let them eat cake!”

    As a Kris Fan, I’m not too angsty over this. It’s almost a relief really. The AI bloggers write him off — to quote T.I., “dead and gone, dead and gone.” Get the shitstorm out of the way and then move forward.

    Oh, carrion, the vultures are circling!

  • HermeticallySealed

    I must be uninformed what’s with the cake, Frogcooke? ‘have your cake and eat it too?’  ‘let them eat cake!’ 

    It’s from a game called Portal. Computer keeps promising a party with cake, and throughout part you see scrawled on walls “The cake is a lie!”

  • frogcooke

    Btw 98.7 is a modern rock station and KROQ is a rock/alternative station, you wouldnt hear archuleta, jordin etc etc on there anyway.

  • http://www.planetfierce.proboards.com rowenaaine

    frogcooke
    September 30, 2009 at 2:57 pm
    Btw 98.7 is a modern rock station and KROQ is a rock/alternative station, you wouldnt hear archuleta, jordin etc etc on there anyway.

    Aha, thanks frogcooke. My favorite alternative stations here all changed format in the past few years which is why I mostly listen to WPLJ. My husband has XM radio, and only listens to alt stations.

  • Crayonas

    The totals given on USA don’t tell the whole story.

    Pretty much. girlygirl, you should see the popularity bars leaked in the middle of the show. The difference between Adam’s songs and all the rest was insane.

  • Mtlfan

    Yes evanjane, the vultures are circling above. That’s why I’m not too eager to read the posts of this thread. I knew the same blah blah (beating of dead horses) was going to resurrect (seems that it never died unfortunately)

  • Kitwana

    I actually vividly remember it, and an interviewer even asked DC about it around the time it happened. I don’t know the exact numbers because, quite frankly, I don’t care. I’m not arguing that it didn’t sell a specific amount, I’m talking what I recalled from itunes at the time, as I checked on it multiple times every day. So yes, it did nearly fall out of the itunes top 100. But okay.

    This is what I recall also. I think that Light On was also included for those who pre-ordered on Itunes and this helped boost sales for the single (although I think that when the album came out they deducted these sales from the total single sales). Jive should definitely include LLWD as a download for those who pre-order. This should easily get the single into the Top 10. Also, when AI9 starts, Kris and LLWD should be featured on the promos for the new season and this should also help the single.

  • soverymel

    Trina
    September 30, 2009 at 2:41 pm
    The iTunes sales figures for the entire season, well I’m sure all fanbases would kill for them.

    Yeah, I agree, I think there are a lot of people who would love to see the totals from during the season, rather than just the ones that were officially tallied starting after the finale.

    I remember as an Adam fan when that chart first leaked and MJ posted a copy of it (http://mjsbigblog.com/the-itunes-popularity-bars-are-back.htm) being SO excited for Adam. LOL I even threw the chart into a graphics program and painstakingly traced the popularity bars for the top 10 songs, dumfounded to discover (even if it was only at that ONE point in time) that Adam’s bars were 18x bigger than Danny’s, and more than 3x bigger than Kris’. And that was the first concrete indication that Kris had quietly, subtly sneaked well past Danny and was likely Adam’s real competition.

    Ah, fun times!

  • Q3

    You know what else? If you click on the ‘Customers who bought’ ¦.’  section on Kris’ album, Adam isn’t on there at all. 16 pages of it. At least it wasn’t yesterday, so does this mean that only Adam fans are buying off Amazon, or that Kris fans are not buying Adam’s album after buying Kris’? Or is it a glitch of some kind?

    ETA: MUST HAVE BEEN A GLITCH- IT’S THERE TODAY

    Something was very odd about how Amazon US put up the TBD Adam CD presale.

    1. They created a new page and left of the “coming soon” sign up for email page.

    2. The new page still isn’t coming up properly on a search for “Adam Lambert”.

    3. Until today, day 4, they did not have Adam’s CD as a add-on suggestion with anyone of the Idol alum or even that other Adam product.

    4. I still haven’t gotten an email notification that it is available from Amazon. Has anyone who signed up gotten one?

  • alaadam

    Brought this over from the headline page:

    Speaking of Youtube, 4 videos of LLWD have nearly 330,000 views, not to mention the smattering of videos with slighly lower views. The majority of comments are positive.

    Don’t get it. If they are watching Youtube, they have access to the computer and, thus are internet roamers. Why the heck are they not buying it? OUt of 330,000 views, only 15,000 want to buy it? I Just Don’t get it.

  • soverymel

    I still haven’t gotten an email notification that it is available from Amazon. Has anyone who signed up gotten one?

    I just got my notification from Amazon this morning. Better late than never, I guess.

  • lucy

    Don’t get it. If they are watching Youtube, they have access to the computer and, thus are internet roamers. Why the heck are they not buying it? OUt of 330,000 views, only 15,000 want to buy it? I Just Don’t get it.

    Well, I’ll take a stab at this: A whole lot of people watched the video several times, some because they love Kris and others because they wanted to drive up that youtube number. Some of those who wanted to drive up the number have watched it at least 100 times each. (I know this happens — It’s an Idol fanbase, folks!).

    A handful of people watched it because they’re fanatic fans of some other Idol and they hate Kris and wanted to assure themselves that he’s as awful as they thought.

    Some people watched it, liked the song, but figured that since it’ll be on the album and it apparently wasn’t included in their Itunes pass, they’ll wait till the album comes out to actually buy it.

    And several thousand people watched it several times each, because they like it. But, in this modern era, they *never* buy music, especially when there’s a high-quality audio out there. So they just downloaded it free off the Internet.

    That probably just about makes up the 330,000, I’d say. Honestly, if we went by youtube and other streaming video plays to judge the number of fans most Idol alums have, they’d all be multiplatinum sellers!

  • AnninSD

    Thanks soverymel for the link to way back in April on the itunes popularity bars leak.

    Oh the days when these threads only had 157 responses…

  • Trina

    The winner having their single featured in AI promos isn’t a guaranteed piece of promotion. Last year was the first time they did it so its unknown if it will become a tradition. Right now I’m not 100% convinced 19E have Kris’ back like that.

  • SpenserJ

    Anyhow, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Kris is ‘tanking’ . What is apparent, is that he is getting no visible help from Jive or 19E ‘” as the Idol Winner,

    Honestly, I don’t have that impression at all. I think Jive is doing just fine by Kris. Other than the oddity of releasing the single on an unconventional day, I really don’t see anything wrong with the way they’ve promoted it. It has an ad on iTunes (even if it’s small), and they got him to debut it on the right radio stations. At this point, it’s up to the DJ’s and the song itself.

    I’m sure they’re saving the tv appearances for the album’s release. You don’t want to waste a tv appearance on just a single, before the full cd is out.

  • Kirsten

    If they are watching Youtube, they have access to the computer and, thus are internet roamers. Why the heck are they not buying it? OUt of 330,000 views, only 15,000 want to buy it? I Just Don’t get it.

    One other contributing factor is that youtube doesn’t report views per country, but SoundScan does. It is possible that some of those 330K views are by people in other countries.

  • girlygirl

    98.7 FM in L.A. is a pop/rock station. NOT slightly a modern rock station. This is the station I heard play Carrie’s “Before He Cheats” 8 zillion times. It’s also the station that plays Kelly Clarkson a lot. They play a LOT of pop/rock on that station…

    KROQ on the other hand is a rock/alternative station

  • ozarka

    Kris shouldn’t be blamed for the fact LLWD was released on Friday, rather than Tuesday. That obviously wasn’t his decision. I happen to believe it’s probably not that easy to crack the Top 100 when you only have 3 days of sales to go by.

    In one of MJ’s threads, she said that charts are based on sales from Sunday to Sunday. I took that to mean from midnight Sunday (00:00) through the end of Saturday (23:59). So wouldn’t that mean that Kris’s sales so far are based on just TWO days worth of sales, Friday and Saturday?

  • YankeeFan08

    You know what else? If you click on the ‘Customers who bought’ ¦.’  section on Kris’ album, Adam isn’t on there at all.

    Actually Adam is there along with Carrie Underwood, Jordin Sparks and Jason Castro, just to name a few.

  • Studio57

    Actually Adam is there along with Carrie Underwood, Jordin Sparks and Jason Castro, just to name a few.

    Don’t know if you read that whole post, but I edited it immediately after I posted. It is on there today, was not there yesterday, probably because they were still working out the glitches.

  • dv

    BILLBOARD HOT 100
    96 11 CARRIE UNDERWOOD COWBOY CASANOVA
    21 25 JORDIN SPARKS BATTLEFIELD
    31 27 KELLY CLARKSON ALREADY GONE
    30 34 DAUGHTRY NO SURPRISE
    71 GLEE CAST TAKING CHANCES
    85 GLEE CAST SOMEBODY TO LOVE

    BUBBLING UNDER
    15 KRIS ALLEN LIVE LIKE WE’RE DYING

  • dhunken

    The Green Arrow on Adam’s pre-orderAlbum is gone!!! He is still number 1

  • haruhi

    If Kris gets significant airplay, coupled w/ a tag saying that he sang Heartless on AI, I really believe his numbers will improve. Kris needs to reach those casual viewers of the show (who might have voted for him), and the populace who doesn’t know Kris but have likely heard or read about his Heartless performance on AI.

  • ladymadonna

    In one of MJ’s threads, she said that charts are based on sales from Sunday to Sunday. I took that to mean from midnight Sunday (00:00) through the end of Saturday (23:59). So wouldn’t that mean that Kris’s sales so far are based on just TWO days worth of sales, Friday and Saturday?

    No, mj mis-spoke. Sales weeks run Monday-Sunday, so Kris had 3 days of sales reported in the numbers released today.

    And I will echo what Kirsten has said upthread – the single needs time to build-up a good base of airplay before sales volume will be affected. But it’s not as if there’s going to be a sudden and noticeable spike at the adds date – even if the single impacts big around that date, it will still take a good 4-6 weeks to build-up enough of a weekly spin cushion that the song is really making an impact on listeners across radio markets. What you will start to notice in the weekly sales figures is more likely to be a gradual stabilization, and then a general lift. Increased TV promo and print media to support the album launch will also help juice single sales in addition to moving album units.

    I say give it some time to find its legs – personally I think it’s a solid, radio-friendly single. And I think it will find an audience.

  • Valentin432

    The Green Arrow on Adam’s pre-orderAlbum is gone!!! He is still number 1

    This means 24 hours have passed since he reached number one, no?

  • ozarka

    No, mj mis-spoke. Sales weeks run Monday-Sunday, so Kris had 3 days of sales reported in the numbers released today.

    Thank you for the clarification, ladymadonna. I appreciate it.

  • dhunken

    The Green Arrow on Adam’s pre-orderAlbum is gone!!! He is still number 1

    This means 24 hours have passed since he reached number one, no?

    I honestly don’t know…. does anyone know what it means? Also it might now matter much as most of the big albums on the best sellers chart have the green arrow gone ( a few have red arrows now) and most are where they were yesterday.

  • listen

    The Green Arrow on Adam’s pre-orderAlbum is gone!!! He is still number 1

    This means 24 hours have passed since he reached number one, no?

    I honestly don’t know’ ¦. does anyone know what it means?

    Yes, it means the ranking of an album has gone up (or down) in the past 24-hours. If an album hasn’t changed ranking, the arrow disappears. (Just put your mouse cursor over the arrow, and it gives you that information ;-) )

  • dhunken

    This means 24 hours have passed since he reached number one, no?

    I just found out you are correct. After 24 hours at number 1 arrow disappears unless it loses it’s ranking and then a Red Arrow will appear. So no Red Arrow!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Hope07

    Hmm, I wonder if part of the reason for Kris’ slow start with LLWD is that it is not at all what his AI fan base, who would be necessary for early sales, expected from him, or even like. Personally, it really doesn’t highlight any of the things I found so compelling about Kris, although I did buy it, of course. In an effort to gain new fans, the decision to release this particular song may have actually alienated his AI fan base. I realize that a ballad would not have had the radio play that this song has the potential for, but I do think his AI fans were expecting something more in keeping with his music on the show, or even on tour. Hopefully, he will pick up new fans along the way, and the decision to release this as his first single will prove to have been a good decision.

  • shell29

    Chris Daughtry sales proved his fanbase was bigger than Taylors’ even though Taylor won and Chris was voted off in fourth position.

    Daughtry’s sales proved that he was able to grow his fanbase beyond Idol. Taylor’s sales show that he wasn’t able to do so. That’s the key: your Idol fanbase (whatever size it is) can only carry you so far. The same will be true for Kris, Adam, Danny, Allison and the rest of this season’s crop.

    As for Kris, I agree that it is way too early to tell how things will go for him. If it’s any comfort to Kris fans, remember that there were a few buzzards circling Jordin Sparks too. A platinum debut album and (soon to be) four platinum-plus singles later, I’d say Jordin is doing just fine. Now I don’t know if Kris will have a similar fate, but I won’t be surprised if he does. It’s not always about making a huge opening week splash-it’s about selling steadily and consistently over the long haul. That’s what Jordin has done. It may have taken a while for her album to sell platinum, but it got there eventually. Hopefully Kris, Adam and the others will be able to do the same.

    I wonder if Jive is trying to do things differently with Kris & Allison so that their singles won’t peak before their album releases (like Crush did for Archie)?

  • ksgirlfordc

    Hmm, I wonder if part of the reason for Kris’ slow start with LLWD is that it is not at all what his AI fan base, who would be necessary for early sales, expected from him, or even like. Personally, it really doesn’t highlight any of the things I found so compelling about Kris, although I did buy it, of course. In an effort to gain new fans, the decision to release this particular song may have actually alienated his AI fan base. I realize that a ballad would not have had the radio play that this song has the potential for, but I do think his AI fans were expecting something more in keeping with his music on the show, or even on tour. Hopefully, he will pick up new fans along the way, and the decision to release this as his first single will prove to have been a good decision.

    Talk about deja vu. This was written about David Cook last year. LO was even called “boat anchor” for a time, (and we know how that turned out) but like has been said before this is a marathon. Kris will be fine. Maybe not. Adam will be fine. Maybe not. Who knows.

  • lucy

    BILLBOARD HOT 100
    96 11 CARRIE UNDERWOOD COWBOY CASANOVA
    21 25 JORDIN SPARKS BATTLEFIELD
    31 27 KELLY CLARKSON ALREADY GONE
    30 34 DAUGHTRY NO SURPRISE
    ‘“ 71 GLEE CAST TAKING CHANCES
    ‘“ 85 GLEE CAST SOMEBODY TO LOVE

    BUBBLING UNDER
    ‘“ 15 KRIS ALLEN LIVE LIKE WE’RE DYING

    So this means he’s basically #115, right? That’s not bad at all for three days of sale, a couple of publicity spots, and still a few weeks out until an actual push to radio.

  • Sherena

    I don’t think it’s got any chance at all of being in the Hot 100 this week, does it? Barely in the top 100 saleswise and without enough radio play to get it on the charts there, etc. I think it’ll have to work its way in over time.

    How does the Hot 100 work? 1/2 sales 1/2 airplay?

    Talk about deja vu. This was written about David Cook last year. LO was even called ‘boat anchor’  for a time, (and we know how that turned out) but like has been said before this is a marathon. Kris will be fine. Maybe not. Adam will be fine. Maybe not. Who knows.

    No one knows, but the fun is in speculating. Otherwise we would just have empty threads until a year later when we can truly ~know.

  • kiss kiss

    I remember El Plan fondly’ ¦.

    Oh yes, the big push’ ¦ I too remember this fondly as well’ ¦.

    lol, I remember with bitterness. ;) *waves*

    Topic? These numbers are even worse than I expected. But I still hold out hope that LLWD can be a hit and everything will be fine for Kris. Mostly because I don’t want to think about the alternative, lol.

  • dcmjfan127

    I was just driving home and flipping thru the radio stations and heard Kris’ LLWD!!! It was so exciting to hear it on the radio! I figured that Boston 104.1 had finally started playing it but it was Worcester 104.5. I had never heard the Worcester station play either No Boundaries or Heartless. So hopefully this is a good sign :-)

  • Kirsten

    So this means he’s basically #115, right?

    Not necessarily. At best, it’s #115th. Only songs that have never entered the Hot 100 can be “Bubbling Under”. Songs that are on their way out of the Hot 100 will not chart on that chart. So, it’s possible there are some other songs with higher ranking Hot 100 stats that are not on either the Hot 100 or the Bubbling Under charts.

    How does the Hot 100 work? 1/2 sales 1/2 airplay?

    55% airplay, 40% sales, 5% streaming.

  • lucy

    So this means he’s basically #115, right?

    Not necessarily. At best, it’s #115th. Only songs that have never entered the Hot 100 can be ‘Bubbling Under’ . Songs that are on their way out of the Hot 100 will not chart on that chart.

    Okay, so he’s around #115 among songs that are on their way in, excluding songs that have had their day and are on their way out? Is that fair?

    Not so bad!

  • jpfan

    HDD projections for next week:

    “Speaking of Streisand, the legendary Columbia singer’s new “Love Is The Answer” is on course to start with around 150,000. It should easily enter the top 10 next week, marking the icon’s 30th top 10 set.”

    Figure around 18% of that was sold on Amazon and you have a good sense of what a #1 there can move.

  • Sherena

    How does the Hot 100 work? 1/2 sales 1/2 airplay?

    55% airplay, 40% sales, 5% streaming.

    Close enough! Cool. And thanks for answering.

  • Mary102

    Kirsten - I’m a relative newbie here (started in May) but I’m guessing you’re like the radio/download/music numbers expert ;-) You seem to know so much about it! Thanks for the info – as someone not in the know, it’s much appreciated!

  • karend

    I wonder if the 150,000 figure for Barbra includes a combination of both her standard (ranked #4) and her deluxe (ranked #2) albums?

    It is interesting that two others they list, Mariah Carey (at 160,000-170,000) and Paramore (at 180,000-190,000), are at ranks 10 and 11 on the list. Does that mean BB could end up with a 200,000+ first week! EEeeepp!!!!

  • jpfan

    I’m pretty sure the 150K for Barbra includes both albums. That’s usually how it works. I forget she had two different versions out. So 1/2 that figure for #1. Who is BB?

  • Kirsten

    I’m pretty sure the 150K for Barbra includes both albums.

    Yep, it should. They’d have to be radically different to be counted separately. Deluxe albums should be counted with regular albums (just as the myriad of Idol versions, each with a bonus track or two, get counted together).

    Who is BB?

    IDK. Billboard? Billboard is going to have a number one with a 200K plus week? Always nice to see in this market.

  • karend

    BB=Baby=Adam (sorry, I also follow another board that calls him that) ….

  • jpfan

    Huh? The actual Billboard chart is usually quite different from Amazon.
    What’s #1 there isn’t usually #1 on the BB chart. So predicting numbers is pretty tough.

    I know 200K seems like alot but it wouldn’t be that great an opening week for Adam. Way under what Cook did last year.

  • Sherena

    I know 200K seems like alot but it wouldn’t be that great an opening week for Adam. Way under what Cook did last year.

    Cook moved 279,000. That’s not very much more than 200,000. Not that the first week sales really count for much except for creating hype. Unless Adam’s song is a bona fide hit by Nov. 24, all it’ll reflect is his AI fanbase. I’m much more interested in seeing Adam maintain his album sales and have successful singles, tbh.

  • Daniel B

    “Cook moved 279,000. That’s not very much more than 200,000.”

    Seems like it’s about 79,000 more than 200,000 to me, but maybe I need to recheck my math ;) I don’t think anyone could argue that a difference of a mere 79,000 albums sold wouldn’t be a massive difference indeed.

    That said, if Adam sells 200k his first week that’s still a very strong debut. I think he may just hit that, though my personal guess is that he’ll be around somewhere around 190k and will not quite crack 200k, but hey I think it will be close and I think that he’ll do just fine with that. I don’t think there’s any way in the world he’ll come close to moving the same number of units as David Cook, but again that’s just my personal opinion.

    First week sales are important, as in most cases the first week is the best-selling week of all and can make up a substantial percentage of how many units the album sells total, but also it will be very important whether the album has ‘legs’ or not and how well it maintains in subsequent weeks.

  • Sherena

    I don’t think anyone could argue that a difference of a mere 79,000 albums sold wouldn’t be a massive difference indeed.

    I’m arguing it. :P

    I’d much rather Adam debut with 200,000 and then stay in the Top 10 albums for a long time than debut 300,000 and then drop like a rock because he has no fans outside of his core fanbase.

    To be less extreme, I guess what I’m saying is that while it’s true that both the opening week and the subsequent weeks are important, I think the subsequent weeks are a LOT more important. One… there’s a lot MORE of them, and him just staying up there for a few more weeks than otherwise could easily generate 80k or more in sales. And two, I really really really want to see him break out of the AI bubble. That’s the key to longevity; to his second and third and fourth albums selling well and him establishing a real, viable career as a pop star. In the long run, it won’t matter if he has 80k more AI fans that’ll probably all forget him in a year anyway, but it will matter if he can get 1) hit singles and 2) infiltrate pop culture (through said hit singles) and 3) keep steady sales throughout many months, indicating that he’s converting new fans (also through said hit singles).

    I’m not worried about Adam’s first week at all. I think he’ll do fine. I think he’ll do great. I’d bet on 200,000 in sales at least. But singles, singles, singles. Without hit singles he’ll never make it in the pop music scene. It’s all about the singles.

  • fluffybunny

    @Daniel B

    What about first week sales of Kris’s album? Will he outsell Adam?

  • leilamaurizia

    More sales numbers:

    61 LEWIS*LEONA HAPPY 24,581 51,905 -53 76,486
    71 DAUGHTRY NO SURPRISE 21,400 23,636 -9 818,239
    160 PICKLER*KELLIE BEST DAYS OF YOUR LIFE 8,949 9,690 -8 824,126

    Glee–
    109 GLEE CAST BUST YOUR WINDOWS 12,714 20,920 -39 33,634
    116 GLEE CAST TAKE A BOW 12,128 20,340 -40 85,841

  • Daniel B

    “What about first week sales of Kris’s album? Will he outsell Adam?”

    I don’t really know :) However my guess is probably not. (I’m not a big Adam fan, and I’m far more of a Kris fan, but if I’m really being honest my two favorite Idols by far are David Cook and Chris Daughtry (so that’s my bias). But as far as this season goes, I do really prefer Kris, followed by Danny (who is not my preferred genre of singer but seemed like such a nice guy who was so unfairly and mercilessly attacked that I want to be in this guy’s corner even if his type of music isn’t my thing)

    I think Kris will sell at a slow burn. He’ll have decent opening week numbers and will be outsold by Adam, but I think his album ultimately will have a chance of outselling Adam overall. If Kris is outsold by Adam on the first week, strangely it’s not that big a deal. Everyone and their brother in the media has already decided this is the foregone conclusion anyway, so I don’t think he’ll get a ton of bad press out of it. I think Adam will sell strongly for the first few weeks (his fans are pretty hardcore) but after the Christmas rush I think unless his album is just superb he will drop off the map. I think Kris and his style (if he’s allowed to showcase it on his album) has a shot at longevity and even if his album opens weaker than Adam’s he could have an album that sticks around for a while. It will all depend on the songs on the album, for both of them.

    But what do I know? I’m just speculating and I could be wildly incorrect. Either of these guys could blow up and be the next superstar, and either could easily go down in flames. I hope Kris does well but I have to admit I’m not a big fan of the first single.

    BTW I’m glad someone posted numbers for Daughtry and Pickler at long last. I was thinking there’s no way they both fell off the chart as both songs are still going strong. I’m interested to see how the new single for Daughtry (Life After You) will do, I think it gets released pretty soon, sometime in October.

  • Hazehel

    Some album numbers from UKMix (just for the sake of keeping track of sales because Idol Chatter doesn’t appear to be doing it) –

    11 RCA 20 24 28 DAUGHTRY LEAVE THIS TOWN 15,789 18,062 -13 661,038
    29 RCA 83 87 79 CLARKSON*KELLY ALL I EVER WANTED 5,656 5,985 -5 711,25
    10 JIVE 105 119 125 SPARKS*JORDIN BATTLEFIELD 3,732 4,082 -9 116,964
    25 BNA 143 155 177 PICKLER*KELLIE KELLIE PICKLER 2,764 2,893 -4 314,212

    David Cook’s album appears to have fallen out of BB200 this week.