Idol Sales News – Week Ending 08/24/08

Some other numbers that contribute to the Hot 100:

Airplay: (note that the numbers in brackets is the increase in audience impressions in millions since last week)
No. 26 – Jordin Sparks ( 2.4 million)
No. 28 – David Cook ( 1.9 million)
No. 36 – Leona Lewis ( 2.8 million)
No. 46 – Jennifer Hudson ( 2.1 million) (No. 10 on R&B)
No. 87 – Daughtry ( 3.9 million)
No. 119 – David Archuleta ( 2.1 million)

Streaming Chart (when there was 1 day left in the week):
1. Katy Perry – I Kissed A Girl
2. Trisha Yearwood – Cowboys Are My Weakness
3. Miley Cyrus – 7 Things
4. Sara Evans – Cheatin’
5. Clay Aiken – Where I Draw The Line
6. Glen Campbell – Good Riddance (Time Of Your Life)
7. Avril Lavinge – Girlfriend
8. Jordan Sparks – One Step At A Time
9. Kelly Clarkson – Never Again
10. Julianne Hough – That Song In My Head

BTW Before anybody asks: “Crush”‘s drop in sales is normal for an artist with a lot of fans, but for a song without a lot of airplay. It’s also in-line with what you get for a first single for an Idol (drops of 30-60%). I still think bulk buying is largely a mirage (i.e. people make noise about it, but it doesn’t amount to signicant numbers), so please don’t feed the myth that it works. Yes, it does happen for all Idols, but I don’t think it makes a big impact (so, don’t bulk buy people!). IMO.

Crush is doing amazing. I am surprised that it didn’t gain much in airplay.

Why is “what about now” selling so few? It is #31 in top 40. Is it because the album is too old?

I don’t understand about “some other numbers that contribute to the hot 100.”
Are the digital download numbers the same thing as the hot 100? I know these are probably stupid questions, but there are so many charts!! lol. Also, when I see No. 26 at 2.4 million and No. 36 at 2.8 million and No.119 at 2.1 million, it looks like the placing is out of order (because I don’t know how to read that I guess). It seems Daughtry would have the higher number with the 3.9 million number. ???

Now, is there a Hot 100 still to come?

Boy, I hope I made myself clear. Having a hard time trying to form the questions i have, lol. Anything you can add though might help me get this straight in my head.

Why is à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“what about nowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  selling so few? It is #31 in top 40. Is it because the album is too old?

At this point in the cycle, most fans have already bought the whole Daughtry CD already so they aren’t buying the singles. It’s mostly charting on airplay.

I think Crush is doing very well gaining airplay. It’s gaining spins and audience daily. Remember, the song hasn’t gone for official adds yet or had the video released. Jive is great at this stuff (see Jordin Sparks) and looks for longevity over burnout.

Regarding rock, maybe that genre doesn’t move downloads as much as pop? That’s true of country music as well. It does seem to move the albums though.

Hey, Jordin’s nearing gold with One Step At A Time!

Magic Rainbows is number 3 on the coronation singles list now, right?

About Archie’s drop, it doesn’t seem to be bad. I’m assuming it would pick up once more stations pick it up or do the single just normally decline until something happens which give it a sales bump? If I remember correctly, someone said that it’s radio impact date is 2 weeks into September?

ETA: oh yeah, and the video hasn’t been released yet.

Are the digital download numbers the same thing as the hot 100? I know these are probably stupid questions, but there are so many charts!! lol.

The Hot 100 is a blended chart. It’s meant to indicate which is the hottest single in the land so it takes account of sales, airplay and streaming. What do people want to listen to? Some songs will have high sales and low airplay. Some will have high airplay and low sales. This tries to work it all out. Who knows what is going on with the streaming.

So, Billboard has about a million charts. Download sales will be used for the Hot Digital Songs chart and will contribute to the Hot 100 (and Pop 100 if it is a Pop song) chart. There are also the Hot Tracks, but I think those have to be off of an album. Airplay will be used for the various Airplay charts and will contribute to the Hot 100 (and Pop 100). The mix is 55% Airplay, 40% Sales and 5% Streams.

Also, when I see No. 26 at 2.4 million and No. 36 at 2.8 million and No.126 at 2.1 million, it looks like the placing is out of order (because I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know how to read that I guess).

Oops! I keep forgetting that the plus signs don’t show up on the blog. I need to find a way to do that. I’ll edit the original post to note that there should be a plus sign in front of those.

So, the person who posts the BDS Airplay numbers only posts the differential, so such and such a song is up or down by so many million listeners from the previous week. Thanks for catching that.

Now, is there a Hot 100 still to come?

It’s officially released tomorrow, but should leak later today.

Just saw the other post. I think the comment about Daughtry fans already having the album is on the money. Archie’s song is doing fine gaining spins. Look for it to move into the 20s on the Top 40 chart early next week (or even sooner).

I see Daughtry and Archie moving up this chart in tandem for awhile.

“Crush” is doing great considering the label isn’t officially going for radio adds until next week. THAT’s when they’ll really start to push it.

Kristen………and when it leaks, you’ll be ON IT, right? :smile1_tb:

What does it mean that the label isn’t officially going for radio adds? Because I’ve been seeing ads for Crush on radio pages since before the single was officially for sale.

I think that means officially adding it to their playlist. They aren’t talking about ads as in advertising. I’ve heard a lot of radio stations can’t or won’t add it until it is “officially” released (on Sept 2).

For you “rolling charts” fans. . .

Today’s rolling charts indicate that DC *could* move into the top spot on AC tomorrow. For a long time he has been #3 behind Leona Lewis and Sara (“How do you spell her name?” tm Archie) Bareilles (I don’t know how to spell it, either, Archie!). LL and SB have been playing leapfrog for days, going back and forth between #1 and #2, but tending to fall, while TOML tends to rise steadily. Between yesterday and today, TOML is suddenly within 26 spins of overtaking #2 and within 28 spins of overtaking #1. Between yesterday and today TOML gained 74 spins, so this is definitely doable. This does NOT mean it will happen. The top two–with nowhere else to go–go up and down a lot, and the women could each jump up again by tomorrow. But he’s definitely getting closer, all things depending on the magic of the rainbow.

Archie’s doing great on the rolling charts on Top40. Right now, the 3D’s–David Cook, David Archuleta, and Daughtry–are still bunched up at 29,30,31, but overall, what TOML does is maintain its general position in that area, while DA, and to a slightly lesser extent D, are making big jumps. I expect Archie to keep climbing pretty fast.

By the way this is a FAKE list of the songs on Archie’s album created by a poster at Pulse. I just think it’s hilarious. Hope, it’s not too OT or OTT.

Official Tracklisting for DAVID (2008)

1) Crush
2) One of Heaven’s Angels
3) Ruined Me
4) All Over You
5) My Hands
6) Won’t Start Something I Can’t Finish
7) Kiss You
When We Met
9) Touchin’ Me (feat. T-Pain)
10) All the Boys In The Club
11) Wantin’ Sex
12) Tasty Candy (feat. Lil Wayne)
13) Can’t Get Your Sex Outta My Head (feat. Lil Jon)
14) Nothin’ On Underneath (feat. Missy Elliot & Lil Kim)

If you’re not familiar with current hip/hop, etc., these titles are really what you’d find on those kinds of albums. Of course, if it was a real tracklist you’d find a duet with Rihanna

Great list! I think track 4 and 5 should switch order.

Radio Disney has been playing Crush more since David taking over, but the spins are not recorded in mediabase. If they add radio Disney, I think the AI number could be bigger.

Oh my! He’ll get the red “explicit” warning on i-tunes with that list! :lol_tb:

Kirsten – you da man! Thanks so much for your explanations and charts! :cool2_tb:

Archie’s downloads of 89k would appear to validate that he is gaining new fans outside the AI bubble – a good sign that when Jive starts the official promo and the single goes for more adds this number should continue to rise… couldn’t ask for anything better! His Idol fanbase is holding strong (perhaps even stronger since the finale), and a whole new channel of fans is opening up —> this CRUSH ain’t goin’ away -ea-ea-ea-ea- a :thumbup_tb:

KIRSTEN IM A FAN OF YOURS!!! IMPRESSIVE…WISH I CAN “READ” THOSE STATS LIKE YOU CAN…KEEP IT UP!!

I don’t understand the 9/2 “impact date” thing either. “Crush” debuted in early August and more and more radio stations keep adding it every week. So, what’s the significance of 9/2? It seems like an artificial date and pretty meaningless to me.

Anyway, Jive is pursuing an interesting tactic. They went for the initial burst of downloads after 8/12, and now that it’s dropping, it seems Archie’s #2 Hot 100 rank is likely to drop also.

However, as more radio adds (and the video, when it’s released) fuel purchases from non-AI fans, it could start to climb again, possibly even to #1. Anyway, we’ll see if the strategy pays off in the long run.

Idolator wrote a blurb contrasting Jordin’s sales/ chart “path” with other those of other Idols. They said that Jordin, unlike many Idols, pursued a more organic course, not dependent on mass fanbase buying. She started slowly on both the charts and in sales, but gradually gathered and sustained momentum.

Anyway, we’ll see which strategy proves more successful in the end. The initial rapid burst or the slow-and-steady approach.

Anyway, weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll see which strategy proves more successful in the end. The initial rapid burst or the slow-and-steady approach.

Archie is going to use both strategies apparently. The reason that Jordin’s initial burst is not “rapid” is due to many factors, lack of a large Idol fanbase, tattoo is a slow build-up song, etc.

Whether the impact date has any meaning depends on the label. I like the consistent gain in airplay.

No, I know the difference between ads and adds. What I’m saying is that the label seems to be actively trying to get additional spins, given the advertisting that they are doing. By this morning, they had already updated the advertising to reflect that Crush had passed 200K in sales, that it’s up to #30 on the rolling Top 40 list, and that he’d been added to a bunch of Top 40 stations. So, that’s why I’m confused by the statement that they aren’t going for adds at this time.

noctem seizure writes, “So what is the significance of 9/2?”

Actually, I’ve wondered the same thing. Are some radio stations not allowed to play it until then or something? (that’s one answer I’ve heard on it). And Ryan’s KIIS station in CA I guess hasn’t played it for some reason, yet Z100 in NY has played it like crazy. It is all rather confusing. Kristen, can you tell us?

Yeah..and I say this as someone who is slowly becoming an Archie fan, but he’s getting good airplay and it shouldn’t be a surprise to see him selling well. Even without the official adds date I’d say being in the Top 30 in airplay gives you an automatic huge boost. Z100 has been playing it like crazy since they premiered it and right there that’s an enormous listening audience. If I didn’t already know who he was from AI I would certainly know the song just from hearing it on Z100 so much.

I think Jive may have been overwhelmed by the huge response CRUSH received in the initial burst, coupled with all the variables mentioned in a previous post…. they may have had to adjust their prima facie strategy or “business model” for marketing/promoting the song “on the fly”…. Jive may be that rare corporation or business organization that is nimble enough to pull this off…. time will tell, and it’s sure a heck of a lotta fun watching it develop! :thumbup_tb:

I don’t think Jive went for an initial burst of downloads over slow and steady. They couldn’t predict how many Archie would sell or that he’d go to #1 on iTunes. Crush could just have easily sold the same number of dls as Tattoo did its first week.

The song’s airplay is fine. Supposedly, the adds date will keep some stations from officially playing it. But the song in three weeks has hit the Top 30 and will be in the 20s next week so airplay isn’t a problem.

If youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re not familiar with current hip/hop, etc., these titles are really what youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d find on those kinds of albums. Of course, if it was a real tracklist youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d find a duet with Rihanna

True, but there are a few hip hop artists who instill humor and intelligence into their songs. You can find them if you try. Just saying!

So, thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s why Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m confused by the statement that they arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t going for adds at this time.

Could it have something to do with that the album will not be release until november?

Maybe they have a timetable that Crush hit the top nearer to the release day and is not on the way down by then.

Kirsten, thanks for all of your wonderful knowledge!!!!

What are streams? I know this is a small %, but just curious. I’m sorry if you’ve explained it before.

Also, what does “official add date” mean? Oh, looks like some others have kind of asked this too?

Thanks again!

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think Jive went for an initial burst of downloads over slow and steady. They couldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t predict how many Archie would sell or that heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d go to #1 on iTunes. Crush could just have easily sold the same number of dls as Tattoo did its first week.

I agree. I think Jive was caught off guard a bit and I believe that his video was rushed in so as to capitalize.

That track listing is too funny! OMG the thought of him doing a video with Lil Kim and Missy Elliot on each side of him… ROTFL I shall call him Archmaster D!

Lil Kim and Archie? Gahhhhh…. perish the thought! haha :lol_tb: that’s an image I’ll have in the brain all day!

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t understand the 9/2 à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“impact dateà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  thing either. à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  debuted in early August and more and more radio stations keep adding it every week. So, whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the significance of 9/2? It seems like an artificial date and pretty meaningless to me.

In the old-old days, labels would release singles and radio stations would play them when they wanted. But, radio stations are lemmings and the charts help to create that effect. So, labels came up with the concept of add dates. If they just released a single, it might end up getting big airplay in one or two markets and then fade and then get it in one or two other markets and so on. But the song might never chart. If they had an “add” date, they could try to get a lot of radio stations to make the song popular all at once, chart and all the other lemmings would follow making it a bigger hit and so on.

So, the idea is that the they release the song and the marketing/promo department go crazy trying to encourage the radio stations to play the song and it charts. Hence, the add date. But, in the old days, you had to send out the song early on a little 45 in order fo the station to get it in time for the add date (you will still see them do this with single CDs for some songs and the DJs tend to sell those on eBay). Some radio stations would jump the gun. So, for some songs, they would be charting before their add date. In some ways, that too became a testament to how popular the song would be. “LOOK! It’s not even added and all these stations went crazy adding it and it’s already a hit!!!!! You should play it too!”

It seems to be the norm that songs are released to radio about two weeks before the official add date. Then about two to four weeks after the add date the songs are released to iTunes (so that the combined airplay and pent up demand for the song can propel you up to the top of the pivotal Hot 100 chart….some labels will actually hold off on releasing songs to iTunes until the airplay numbers are high enough to ensure a top 10/5/1 ranking on the Hot 100). Some stations won’t play songs before the add dates and the big marketing blitz (actually calling them up) doesn’t normally start unti the add date.

Jive seems to be doing something a little different here with Archie. They released the song a LONG time before the add dates and released the song to iTunes early (last year, “Tattoo” was released after the add date. I think it was a month later, but I would have to check. The song was released to iTunes on September 23rd, but I think the add date was late August). Some speculated last week that the release was to synch up with the Jonas Brothers release. It’s not unusual for ads to start appearing on Mediabase, R&R and AllAccess before the add date. That’s just to get the radio programmers psyched to add it.

They said that Jordin, unlike many Idols, pursued a more organic course, not dependent on mass fanbase buying. She started slowly on both the charts and in sales, but gradually gathered and sustained momentum.

Well, there are those amongst us will say that she didn’t have a mass fanbase to start with so the only other strategy available to her was to start small and stay small. Season 6 numbers are a huge anomaly in almost every respect. Jordin sold the least amount of coronation singles of any Idol ever. By a long shot. Some tried to blame the fact that it was only available for download, but Cook has gone on to prove that that doesn’t have to limit sales (he could end up with the highest selling coronation single). The tour sales were pathetic. The debut week album sales were dismal. It just went on and on. It just seems that Jordin did not develop a large devoted fan base while on Idol. People liked her, but not enough to bother buying anything she produced.

Then Jive came along with its smart marketting plan and terrific A&R department. They got her songs that suited her and showcased her talent. They got her sustained airplay and a sweet tour to go on (Alicia Keys? When was the last Idol that got to go on tour with somebody as huge as that as their first post-Idol tour? Daughtry got on some good tours, but only after he had already become a hit. I don’t recall if Carrie did a tour before she got on the big Paisley tour. Kellie got on the Paisley tour as well, but that was several months after her album debuted). Of course, if Jordin wasn’t as likeable as she is, wasn’t as talented or wasn’t as hard working as she is, she wouldn’t have been a success. But, Jive really only had the organic growth way to go with her if they wanted her to be a success.

They seem to be following the same basic game plan with Archie. It will be interesting to see if they can do the same thing twice and what the effect of Archie’s seemingly larger fan base will have.

In other news, “Magic Rainbow” sees a drop, but that’s hardly surprising. This puts DC at the #3 all time coronation song, if I’m not mistaken. Still, I’ve seen some fans project that it will go platinum, and that’s hard to envision unless it gets some more high-profile exposure. Too bad he couldn’t have released a B side like other Idols. TOML with ABMB as a B-side probably would be on its way to going double platinum by now.

I also disagree with the original poster that “bulk buying” doesn’t work. It’s true that Soundscan only counts purchases up to 8 – 10, but if every fan is buying the single 8 – 10 times, that means the buying fanbase is actually only 10% – 13% of the size it represents itself as. Obviously, not all fans are buying it 8 – 10 times, but a sizeable percentage certainly are.

And so as much as I deplore the concept in principle, Cook’s fans almost HAVE to adopt the same tactics….

Because even though the Davids have never wanted to compete with each other, the media insists on still treating them as competitors, as we’ve seen this past week with all the ridiculous “Archuleta crushes Cook” articles.

And so if Cook fans decide that they are going to stand on principle and adopt a one customer/ one purchase rule, they are setting themselves up for more of the same. It’s a bit like carrying a revolver with you when the other side brings a howitzer.

What are streams? I know this is a small %, but just curious. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sorry if youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve explained it before.

You can go to some websites and listen to official streams of the song (play on demand). AOL and Yahoo report the number of listens each week to Billboard and those are factored into the Hot 100/Pop 100/etc charts.

This is a recent development, but recognizes that this is another way that people demonstrate that they are interested in a song (i.e. a measure of how popular the song is).

Kirsten… you’re the best!! :bye_tb: Thank you, thank you for the detailed and very clear explanations of what before to me was arcane data in the extreme!!! I’m enjoying reading your explanations and being able to process it on the first read – keep em coming… it much appreciated!! :smile2_tb:

Kirsten, that was so interesting! Thank you! I love all this background and perspective on the music biz.

Thanks Kristen…very, very much.

Thanks Kirsten for expounding on all of this info.!!!

And so as much as I deplore the concept in principle, Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans almost HAVE to adopt the same tacticsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

Okay, as a huge DC fan I personally don’t think this should be encouraged.

1) IF some of Archies fans (I’m not saying they are) are taking this approach for the purpose of upping the numbers, I hope DC’s fans don’t lower themselves to such tactics.

2) I believe DC will do just fine without this.

3) We all already know how the media loves to twist things, I believe the best approach is to ignore it as opposed to add to it.

4) I believe DC sales, etc. will prove out in longevity.

5) Pop seems to be popular with selling singles than rock, so perhaps we should be prepared for this.

6) Let’s also remember that although album sales seem to be becoming less and less standard these days as opposed to single sales, there is something to be said about an entire album selling well and I believe this is going to be the case with DC…(Not really too knowledgeable about this, but…)

I’m hoping this is seen as just another opinion (hopefully somewhat considered) as opposed to trying to start an argument…

I also disagree with the original poster that à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“bulk buyingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t work. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s true that Soundscan only counts purchases up to 8 – 10, but if every fan is buying the single 8 – 10 times, that means the buying fanbase is actually only 10% – 13% of the size it represents itself as. Obviously, not all fans are buying it 8 – 10 times, but a sizeable percentage certainly are.

I’m the original poster and I cannot agree. I’ve seen members of large fan groups try to arrange bulk buys and they have failed to generate any significant numbers, IMO. Take for instance the “albums for the troops” drives that make so much noise. Then, when we get the actual total after months of sustained press and internet pleas, it’s like 1500 albums. Sure, that’s a lot of albums, but 1500 is a drop in the bucket when it comes to making a hit record. I recall a fan group trying to get a song they thought should have been a single to hit just the top 100 on iTunes. They couldn’t even budge it into the Pop 100. I’ve seen groups try to get a CD single over a sales milestones and the sales totals differing by only tens of units over the previous week (and the total was less than a thousand).

Every Idol fan group has a minority that attempts bulk buying. Archuleta has moved 255K units. I refuse to believe that there are 25 thousand people buying 10 copies each. I think that there are probably about 50 people buying 10 copies each (500 copies) and the rest are going to normal people. As it is with all Idols and all artists in general. Most people realize that there are better uses for their money than spending it on buying several copies of the same song just so that somebody who is already rich can become richer.

I really hate these bulk buying claims because I’m afraid that some people with a tenuous grasp on reality (or a patholigical competitive edge) will think that it works and not only waste their on money on the efforts, but try to badger others into doing it as well. Besides, it’s always “the rabid fans of the other guy” who does it. Plus, MJ doesn’t like buying campaigns or street teaming on her site.

And so as much as I deplore the concept in principle, Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans almost HAVE to adopt the same tacticsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

No, you don’t HAVE to. The competition is OVER. Over like rover. Nobody can make anybody do anything. You chose how to react. If you deplore the principle don’t do it. Not only will you keep your principles in tact, but you will also have more money in your wallet. I cannot stress enough how I think this effort will be futile.

And, for anybody who thinks it’s necessary because of what the press will do. Forget it. The press is going to spin things anyway they want. They will even report that so-and-so outsold so-and-so when they did not. And if the press gets a whiff that there is a buying campaign, they can very easily include that too (even if it is only two loons buying 5 copies each, the press can spin it).

I recommend acting like a normal person and that will be the best you can do to “help” your favourite. Don’t bulk buy. Don’t arrange bulk buying campaigns. And don’t, whatever you do, hound the DJs. Just my opinion on the subject.

Well said Kirsten…. you have articulated very clearly and succinctly all the arguments and rebuttals regarding bulk buying campaigns and their effect…. lotta aspersions have been cast at the authenticity of CRUSH’s numbers since the debut, and once again your explanation helps solidify for me that BBC’s could not and cannot manufacture a hit… thanks again for helping me make better sense of all the sturm and drang around the music biz! :smile1_tb:

If this buying campaigns work imo the can also be dangerous for the artist.

Every product as to prove his value on the market as has the songs.

If you manipulate this, you can not see if there is market and maybe you make the wrong decisions for the future.

I LOVE this stuff! So interesting! Thanks Kirsten.

Great to see CRUSH had most downloads last week! I still hear TOML a lot more than CRUSH on the radio. I know some fans have gotten a “Never heard of it” from some DJ’s when Crush has been requested, so I believe the ‘add’ thing.

noctem

And so as much as I deplore the concept in principle, Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans almost HAVE to adopt the same tacticsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

You really don’t think they’ve already been adopted? I’ve heard Cook fans purposely buying Rhianna to stop Archie climbing. We can’t do anything about the media prolonging the competition, but the only way it will really stop is if the fans do. It doesn’t prove that one is better than the other and it doesn’t hurt or help either David.

Kirsten, thanks so much for all of the information. Crush is a success because his fans love it and are buying it. Not because a few OTT fans a buying it for their neighborhood. I have found that alot of that is just bravado anyway. A way of whipping up the troops.

Making this a David v David thing just is so passe. That competition is over and David Cook won. Done. I never understood this two idols can’t coexist crap, it just isn’t true.

Sorry, Kirsten, with all do respect, I disagree. You presented absolutely no evidence to say that mass-buying campaigns are not having an effect. Your only argument is that there is no evidence that they are having an effect. The negative does not negate the possibility of the positive, if you will.

And there is too much online reference of the practice to suppose that it is confined to mere hundreds of people. Most Idol fansites boast thousands of members, and most Idols boast more than one fansite. The fact is that, within Idol, the Claymates pioneered the practice and fans of successive Idols have followed suit. And it has become even easier to pull off in the digital age.

So, yes Crush’s numbers are inflated. So were those of TOML, at first. So were, initially, Daughtry’s and Taylor’s– the difference being there of course being that once Taylor exhausted his fanbase he had nowhere to go.

If only 5,000 fans buy 10 copies each or “gift” them or however they want to spin it, that’s an additional 50,000 in sales. It seems very probable to me that a popular Idol would have AT LEAST 5,000 hardcore fans willing to make this kind of investment.

And like I said you’ve shown no evidence that it’s not happening. The only thing you have offered is that there is no evidence that there is. And, although it’s not “hard” evidence, from combing around the Web, I find plenty of support for the notion that the practice is much more widespread than you suggest.

Lastly, ALMOST EVERYONE, wants the David vs. David competition to be over. The media, however, will not let it go. And the story the media tells and the resulting public perception has a lot more impact than giving one fanbase or the other bragging rights. It can have a dramatic effect on the success or failure of the Davids’ careers.

Making this a David v David thing just is so passe. That competition is over and David Cook won. Done. I never understood this two idols canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t coexist crap, it just isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t true.

I agree. The music industry is full of different artists all trying to eke out a living. They can peacefully co-exist and many people are fans of more than one person. Josh Groban doesn’t have to fail so that Fall Out Boy can be a success. Avril and Miley can both move units at the same time. Amy Winehouse and Sara Bareilles are not mutually exclusive.

No matter how many units Archie moves, David Cook still won AI. No matter how many units Cook moves, he still has to be considered successful by his label to stay signed. They aren’t going to keep Cook if he sells 20 more units than Archie but he still only sold 47K (that’s not going to happen…I’m just throwing out a number here).

All these bulk buying campaigns are silly in my opinion. There simply isn’t that many “committed” fans out there. The artist must be able to put out music that appeals to general audiences. 30 million people watch AI, but that means 300 million do not (or something like that). That’s a whole lot of other people to appeal to. And frankly, I think that if the fan groups act like loons, they scare off potential new fans. Nobody wants to be associated with loons. Act cool. Although, to be honest, it’s really a tiny sub-segment of people who pay any attention to numbers, articles on Idols and articles on Idol fans. So, appealing music and a decent promo department is what these Idols need.

BTW take a peek at those streaming numbers. I think that “Crush” would have been on there if there was a successful bulk buying campaign. It’s much easier to get the streams up than it is to get the sales up (people are more likely to do something that’s free). And, if anybody out there is thinking of starting a campaign to bulk listen to run up numbers for their favourite Idol. Forget it. Just say no to “Bulk” campaigns. Let the songs grow organically. You’ll do your Idol and your fellow fans a big favour. Take a peek at those streaming numbers if you don’t believe me…

Mmm. Kristen’s thoughts on bulk-buying make a lot of sense to me. Given DA’s obvious popularity on the show and the tour, the numbers that he has sold in his first couple of weeks seem pretty reasonable to me. Just as DC’s numbers for his first couple of weeks seemed pretty reasonable to me. Next for DC, radio play/TV appearances/other stuff won people over to buy ToML, which is where we are today. And that’s the next step for DA. It makes sense to me seeing how the radio play numbers are going and the lack of the term “magic rainbow” in Crush that he’ll do well with sales to the non-fanbase over the next chunk of time.

And I don’t buy the rumors that there is strategic purchasing of Rhianna, etc.—certainly not on any large-scale basis. My guess is that there is some small number of people in any fanbase who decide that they are going to be strategic, and bulk buy, or call a lot of radio stations, or strategically buy (or not buy) from another artist. But without some sort of proof, e.g., when you heard a lot of DJs complaining about some past Idols’ fans being pests, I don’t buy the rumors.

:clap_tb: Kirsten!

noctem seizure, where do you get the number that 5000 Archies bought 10 copies each? Out of thin air?

1000 is the number of fans that congratulated David hitting No. 1 in itunes at the biggest fansite where everyone visits. A big part of these fans are tweens/teens waiting for others to gift them because they don’t have a credit card. Aren’t Archie fans all below 12 years old? How are they supposed to not only buy the single, but also buy 10 copies of them each?

By calling for a bulk buying campaign for Cook in this site, I think you are expecting people saying Cook’s future number is due to fans buying 20 copies each, right? Do you also reckon Cook fans are buying Disturbia in bulk and that influenced Archie’s debut?

Winner outselling runner-up doesn’t make news. That’s why media is all over Archie charting higher than Cook. It is the nature of the media and they are going to find some contravercy out whatever number they pull out.

It seems very probable to me that a popular Idol would have AT LEAST 5,000 hardcore fans willing to make this kind of investment.

Actually, I think that’s a gross over estimation. I’m not shy about being a fangirl if I enjoy an artist, but I would never buy ten copies of a CD. That’s 100 bucks or more. That money is better used for attending concerts of said Idol. I bet there are probably only 100 fans or so of any given Idol who would do something like that. You may get 5000 willing to buy two copies of some CDs if the have bonus tracks, DVDs etc.

Of course, there’s no way these numbers can be confirmed. However, I have to agree that fans can’t make their faves “a hit” by purchasing mulitple copies. It just doesn’t happen.

Sorry, Kirsten, with all do respect, I disagree. You presented absolutely no evidence to say that mass-buying campaigns are not having an effect. Your only argument is that there is no evidence that they are having an effect. The negative does not negate the possibility of the positive, if you will.

With all due respect, I don’t think that you’ve provided one scintilla of evidence to back your claim. How many unique people (taking away people who are posting on multiple sites) have posted evidence proving that they have purchased more than one copy of “Crush”?

I have presented proof (and I’ve avoided using names because I fear that it will just start a fan war on other Idols) that past bulk buying campaigns have failed miserably. Granted, that does not prove that new bulk buying campaigns would also fail, but it does demonstrate that while these things in the past have generated a lot of internet chatter, but there is no evidence that they are successful. One could infer from that that internet chatter does not necessarily yield sales results.

I agree that all fan groups contain a segment of fans that like to post a lot about how they bulk buy and attend 93 concerts and have cashed in their retirement savings and stopped feeding the dog so that they can devote all their money to their favourite. I simply don’t believe that there are that many people that really do that. I simply do not believe that there is a massive mental health crisis in this country and that the streets will be strewn with these thousands of “Grannies” who are now penniless (and it’s always the claim that it’s these “Grannies” who are the bulk buyers). My goodness. Many of these people are the same people who have haunted the Idol fan groups for years! Shouldn’t they be broke by now? How can they still afford computer connections when they’ve been eating out of garbage cans since Season 2?

And there is too much online reference of the practice to suppose that it is confined to mere hundreds of people. Most Idol fansites boast thousands of members, and most Idols boast more than one fansite.

And many of those fans belong to multiple fansites and many of those fan members have drifted on since Idol season finished.

The fact is that, within Idol, the Claymates pioneered the practice and fans of successive Idols have followed suit. And it has become even easier to pull off in the digital age.

If the Claymates are so successfully obsessive, why has his latest album only moved around 100K? Is it not possible that the 100K number is closer to the number that the obsessive fans could generate and the millions he moved on his first album were those to people who just liked him on the show and bought one copy? Even if Clay has a bunch of crazy fans doesn’t mean that they are all crazy people. Every Idol has crazy fans. Most of their fans are normal. Most of them probably don’t even visit any Idol fansite.

If only 5,000 fans buy 10 copies each or à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“giftà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  them or however they want to spin it, thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s an additional 50,000 in sales. It seems very probable to me that a popular Idol would have AT LEAST 5,000 hardcore fans willing to make this kind of investment.

Well, where is the evidence that there are 5,000 hard core fans willing to waste $10 instead when they could use that money to buy his entire album (or some gas for their car)? And where were these loons after Idol? Why didn’t they buy 166K copies of his songs then when it really mattered? And why have these freaks ignored the streaming numbers? Any organized freak would have known to get those up too. And, even if there are 5,000 fans responsible for purchasing 50,000 copies, that still means that 210K copies were sold to individual people (205K plus the 5K of loons). That’s still very good. The bulk buying is a drop in the bucket even if we use the numbers I personally think are inflated.

Lastly, ALMOST EVERYONE, wants the David vs. David competition to be over. The media, however, will not let it go. And the story the media tells and the resulting public perception has a lot more impact than giving one fanbase or the other bragging rights. It can have a dramatic effect on the success or failure of the Davidsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ careers.

Putting out a good album will have more of a dramatic effect on the success or failure of the Davids’ careers. People might check out or buy an album because it’s moved a million gazillion units, but they won’t buy the next one if this one sucks. And really, I don’t think that the majority of people care even the slightest bit about which David moved more units. They are playing with the big boys/girls now. When they move more units than Miley/Jonas Brothers/Nickelback/The Eagles/Mariah/etc, then people will start noticing and caring.

Just say “NO” to bulk buying campaigns.

inamy we’ll hope you’re just joking with this comment and leave it at that.

Arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t Archie fans all below 12 years old? How are they supposed to not only buy the single, but also buy 10 copies of them each?

elle, I am surprised that you even doubt whether I am joking.

I think that there’s truth in the statement that the initial numbers are to a certain degree, inflated.The bulk buying/gifting is documented in the fansites themselves and the mechanism has gotten more systematic. That said, I do agree that however much it impacts initial numbers, such efforts have a short shelf life and are really not sustainable. So the truth is somewhere in the middle, the bulk buying does happen, the numbers do get affected, especially those of the first couple of days, but ultimately, the inflated numbers get swallowed by the normal buys and by the second week, the impact of the fan activites don’t matter anymore.

I agree, I’m so over this David v. David stuff. The media will try to keep it alive because, well, looking at it from their perspective, its interesting and obviously it gets the fans riled up which I’m assuming translates into more interest for their sites, etc. Never mind the media, which, speaking for myself, has never affected my decision about purchasing a CD or seeing an artist. Its the fans that keep this David v. David thing alive. Everyone seems to feel the need to defend their own; either to justify why he won (“see?! he deserved to win!”) or to justify why he should have won (“see?! he deserved to win!”). Personally, when I see posts by overzealous fans that feel the need to dis one David to praise the other I just skim over them because there is no need for that at all. They can easily co-exist.

Re: the Rihanna song, this is the first I’ve heard this rumor but I don’t buy the spiel about Cook fans buying her single simply to downplay Archie’s numbers any more than I buy that any Archie fans bulk buying are augmenting sales for Crush. I think that Crush is doing a good job of gaining non-AI fans for Archie which is what he (and all Idols) need. Disturbia just seems to have a life of its own, hasn’t it been out for something like 2 months already?

Kirsten – :drunk_tb: I’ll drink to that!

Ken Barnes posted the sales figures for Kristy Lee Cook and they are not pretty.

Sales for Kristy Lee’s 15 Minutes of Shame single amounted to 600 this week, 900 the previous week, and a total of 1,600.

I thought that she would do much better than that. I wonder how her album will do.

Holy crap I was not expecting numbers like that. Isn’t she getting decent country airplay? Ah well I was one of the 1600 LOL

Question about AOL streaming..is it true that they only count one IP address per day when it comes to the Billboard AOL stream chart? I was reading recently Clay fans were doing lots of streaming there for several weeks to keep his songs on the front of the AOL music page but it looks like just this past week one of his songs finally made that chart.

Disturbia just seems to have a life of its own, hasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t it been out for something like 2 months already?

Disturbia just keeps going and going… @_@; Who buys that song? lol

Here is the complete list of Idol album sales numbers from Idol Chatter.

Aww, I was hoping Kristy Lee would do better than that. I bought her single. There was just zero promotion, and I don’t think she’s dong that well on country radio. I think 15 Minutes impact date has past, but not much change.

BTW, I don’t get Disturbia. That song has annoyed me since I first heard it and that hasn’t changed.

Based on Crush’s movement on iTunes, I’m expecting about 45,000 in sales next week, maybe a little more, pushing him above 300,000 total. I think it’ll stabilize within the next 2 weeks and then rise once Jive starts really pushing it and stations start to respond. I heard that the radio promotion team at Jive are very, very happy with Crush’s progress. So I expect them to go all out starting next week.

Wow, KLC’s numbers are very low. Is her song getting any radio play on country channels ?

It’s ironic that the the Idols who could benefit from the famed “mass purchases” rarely get them. Only the ones who are already doing great seem to benefit.

Anyway, this seems like the right place to congratulate Elliott Yamin. His album is officially gold in Japan. Not easy for any Idol alum. Even sweeter for an indie artist.

I have to concur with Kirsten about the myth of bulk buying. When you spend too much time on idol fansites populated by rabid street teamers, you lose all perspective about what motivates the vast majority of song downloaders and CD buyers. Here’s a hint: it has nothing to do with Mediabase rolling charts.

I think Bucky is the perfect example of an organically grown Idol success story. If you look at Ken Barne’s list of off chart Idols, you will see that Bucky is currently selling 1,500 CDs for an album that has been out since April 2007. Whatever rabid fanbase he acquired through idol has long been supplanted by new fans that he has gained through non stop touring at county fairs and corn festivals (which TMZ seems to think is proof that Bucky is a loser). The only idols currently selling more CD’s than Bucky are Carrie, Jordin and Daughtry. Granted, he hasn’t reached gold or platinum for total sales like Taylor, Kelly, Kellie and Elliot, but it is obvious that he is picking up a lot more non-Idol fans than one would expect for someone who finished in 8th place. Go Buckster!

Woah, is Arista Nashville running some sort of “Please don’t buy KLC’s song” anti-campaign? She only sold 600 more than I did last week and I don’t even have a song. Why even bother with her if they’re not going to promote her? Maybe the promotion will kick in after the tour, but it still makes me wonder what the rush was to get the single and album out.

Archie should be pleased with his second week sales – I don’t even like the song and don’t currently plan to buy it, but I still think its better than a lot of the songs sitting in the top 20 at iTunes, and certainly no worse than what’s being churned out by his teenaged counterparts. I probably won’t even turn it off when I start hearing it on the radio like I do with Miley, the Jonas Brothers, and even Jordin’s new song, which I can’t stand.

I’m still shocked that TOML is even on the Top 100 in August, much less still getting fairly respectable sales. I sort of thought it would be around the 1,000 copies a week mark at this point. I am SO ready for a new single from DC.

HI, I don’t post here often, but I just wanted to say thank you to Kristen, soudscene and all the others for that passionate debate over the US Charts.

I would like also to know everybody’s opinion about the sound quality of i-tunes and MP3 music in general (if it’s not too mutch off topic). I just read today on several norwegian news websites (sorry I couldn’t find a english version of it) that Metallica will soon pull off their first i-tune single for lack off quality sound and will replace it as soon as possible. I knew MP3 music was not gentle with the sound, but so bad that you have to replace it, WAOU… The compressing process is destroying the music and as I could understand it, it’s particularly problematic with rock music because of the “loudness war” among music producers : here some better explanation in Rolling Stones (with some thoughts from Rob Cavallo),and You Tube…

I’m then little affraid about Cook’s next single… I’m a big fan DC fan, but I’m also a big fan of good quality sound in music. Maybe for people who likes Pop music, the MP3 singles are just OK, but for my part I cannot think of buying poor quality music just because it’s easier to pursue (and cheaper). It’s not like a CD is costing 1000$…

So I will probably make the pact to wait to the CD’s release to listen to Cook’s music, because I really don’t want to listen to some bad quality music, even with the best lyrics in the world and Cookie singing them… It will be hard, but I think I can do it. I’m then sorry that I will not participate in DC’s i-tunes Chart (or any other artist) by bying even one of his next single… but will probably buy 3 of his next CD

PS. sorry for my bad english and the long post…

Oh man, now I feel bad for Kristy Lee. That has to hurt bad. I agree though, I’m not sure why you sign an artist, make an album and then not promote the best you know how.

inamy, I know you’re joking, just couldn’t resist. Still a little sensitive from the season . . . (sniff, sniff) :smiley2_tb:

am hearing Archie’s song quite a bit on my local pop stations, the djs seem to like it and comment about the song. I mainly listen to mostly urban stations and they are crazy about disturbia and little wayne music, play the heck of these songs.
and :clap_tb: for Elliott! Gold in Japan, indie artist made good!

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m still shocked that TOML is even on the Top 100 in August, much less still getting fairly respectable sales. I sort of thought it would be around the 1,000 copies a week mark at this point. I am SO ready for a new single from DC.

Ditto. I can’t believe it’s still around, and almost platinum, at that. Not too bad for a throwaway coronation song.

But, David Cook – *pounds fist on coffee table* NEW SINGLE. NOW. okthxbye.

Kristen- Thanks for the information about billboard. I am one of those DA fanatic fans. I have seen some people telling others to buy tons of copies, but who has the money? I bought one for myself, and one for my daughter and her friend who are college students who have no money. I am glad DA did well his second week. As I have learned about the charts, I realize it all takes time and we have to be patient. It will be interesting to see if the # of spins goes up after it is officially released to all stations on Sept. 2nd. I have heard his video will come out around the 15th and that he will start promoting it after tour ends. I expect that will help.

I join the chorus of people who are tired of the media pushing for competition between the two davids. I hope they are both successful and that everyone will encourage and support all of the idols in their careers, but it will only happne if people like their music. I hope Kristy Lee gets better promotion and her single does better. I hate to see her fail.

By the way, I was curious about disturbia and went to youtube to see the music video. It was VERY disturbing to me.

Nattevakt- your English is just fine.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t recall if Carrie did a tour before she got on the big Paisley tour.

I think she toured with Kenny Chesney before the Brad Paisley tour, but I’m not 100% sure. A bigger Carrie fan could answer that question.

Yes Carrie toured with Kenny before Brad.

I was just reading on a music board I frequent that RCA releasing a Christina Aguilera single on September 19..but the weird thing is there is no name so far and she doesn’t have an album due yet. Argh I want my Kelly & Cookie singles NOW. I know RCA tends to be slow as dirt but waiting for single news for both my fave contestants is, well, going to suck.

I am a big Archie fan. I purchased Crush once. I have never been a bulk buyer although I have had favorites every year. I purchased two of Ruben’s first cd. I purchased the first on the drop date, I purchased another when he came to NYC for a cd signing at a record store in Brooklyn (store policy,you had to buy to get a signature. I did something similar when Fantasia had a signing. I purchased two of Taylor’s one for me, one for my mom. I didn’t make any of these purchases to boost sales, but out of practicality.

I know the claymates were notorious for this practice, but as Kirsten said, that enough should be evidence of it not working. I actually thought it worked with the first cd, but as his subsequent cds sorta tanked (not the xmas one) it showed that the only way to really boost sales is too put out really good music. Then you at least have a shot at making new fans, then your fans don’t have to try so hard.

Well, I think part of the thing with Clay is that some of his fans have simply moved on. I’ve never been a bulk buyer to begin with. But I also haven’t bought even bought the FIRST copy of anything from him since the Christmas cd because I haven’t been interested in it. My best friend is a bigger fan than I am and even bought the covers album, but hasn’t bought his latest album either. Just two examples, but still examples. *shrug*

Honestly, I think the way to boost sales is to have your music played on the radio. It’s very true that the AI fanbase can only carry things so far, and radio play helps drive sales.

Trina, I know what you mean about waiting for singles. I wanted them like yesterday. Gah.

I would like also to know everybodyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s opinion about the sound quality of i-tunes and MP3 music in general (if ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not too mutch off topic).

Standard MP3s are quite lossy (they lose sound quality) and a number of people are very unhappy with it. CDs aren’t perfect either (old LPs are still the best), but they are way better than MP3s.

Personally, if I really like an artist and more than one or two songs on their CD, I buy the CD for the higher quality and I’m not even an audiophile. Those true audiophiles get really annoyed at the low quality of MP3s. I think it’s fine for an iPod or for songs that you just want to listen to. If you want all the nuances though, I think you want the CD. I don’t think most people really notice, though, because you don’t often hear the average person complaining about it. There are settings that you can do on iTunes which improve the mix a little when you play.

So many people just listen to songs in noisy environments or on crappy headphones or on their crappy radio that they don’t care. Some people just listen for the melodies/beats/words/whatever so they are happy. People have different interests. That’s fine. Some people want the perfect sound, so they aren’t happy with iTunes. It all depends what you are listening for.

The compressing process is destroying the music and as I could understand it, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s particularly problematic with rock music because of the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“loudness warà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  among music producers :

Rock songs do tend not to do as well as pop songs (unless they cross-over to pop) on iTunes. Perhaps that is one of the reasons.

Nattevakt, thank you for you interesting post. I skimmed the Rolling stones article.

I would be interested to hear what others that may know about the whole quality of music on downloads as opposed to cd’s think.

I know I will be downloading DC’s single once it’s out basically because I am looking forward to something new from him, not to add numbers to a fanwar.

If I had to guess, I’m sure DC is more interested in quality than quanity.

ETA: Kirsten, I was hoping you would address this. Thanks!

I know I will be downloading DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s single once ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s out basically because I am looking forward to something new from him, not to add numbers to a fanwar.

Me too, if it’s out before the album (and it better be, RCA!). Just because I am so ready for something new from him, that if there’s something out there, begging to be purchased, I know I won’t be able to wait.

I’ll also buy the actual album from an actual store when it comes out. I’m one of those who likes the physical cd.

I have heard that the Mp3′s on amazon.com are better than the ones on itunes. Does anyone know if that is true?

Ok, I’m just begining to be passionate about the Digital Music subject, what a geek I am sometimes… The Rollind Stones article is really interesting (but quite long, I know) and as I understand it even the quality of the CDs are worst than 10 years ago (and Cds are already worst than LP, you are right Kristen) : the new tendance is that producers/artits want “loud” music because they don’t want to appear “weaker” than the others, but in the process you’re losing a lot of details in the music… I know it’s not a concern for a lot of people, but I’m pretty sure it’s one for David Cook. He said he want a “record” that can stand in 10years, so the question is, will he follow the “loudness” patern to be current among i-tunes and the radio or will he make a CD that is less loud but better in the quality?? Will his producer let him do it? In the article (dates dec 2007) Rob Cavallo don’t seem to critic that tendance so mutch, just observes it.

“Modern music should be able to get your attention.” Adds Rob Cavallo, who produced Green Day’s American Idiot and My Chemical Romance’s The Black Parade, “It’s a style that started post-grunge, to get that intensity. The idea was to slam someone’s face against the wall. You can set your CD to stun.”
…
Cavallo says that MP3s don’t reproduce reverb well, and the lack of high-end detail makes them sound brittle. Without enough low end, he says, “you don’t get the punch anymore. It decreases the punch of the kick drum and how the speaker gets pushed when the guitarist plays a power chord.”

In the Great Scheme of things that’s surelly doesn’t matter : Cook will sell very well, I’m just a geek with an expensive CD player, I never dowload music and buys like 5 CDs a year. What do I know! But again I look up to David Cook as a professional musician, and now that he has the money and the support to do a good record, I hope market duties will not destroy his creativity.

Btw, an another thing I’m appose to MP3 is its immateriality… CD are already smaller and simpler than LPs, MP3 are nothing… You cannot touch it, the design cover is ridiculous (i’m really laughin’ at Archie and Cook one’s right now), there’s so few choices… How it’s getting so popular is beyond me, but again I’m maybe just too old fashion (and still I’m not even 30 years old)…

I have heard that the Mp3à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s on amazon.com are better than the ones on itunes. Does anyone know if that is true?

Again from the Rolling Stone article : iTunes sells music as either 128 or 256 kbps AAC files à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  AAC is slightly superior to MP3 at an equivalent bit rate. Amazon sells MP3s at 256 kbps.

Cheese, you made me laugh.

I had a feeling that KLC’s numbers were that bad, as she has not been showing up on the itunes top 100 country songs list. It does make you wonder what the label is thinking with its strategy.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll also buy the actual album from an actual store when it comes out. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m one of those who likes the physical cd.

Oops, I meant to say this too, although not sure if it will be the cd from a store or Amazon. But it will be the CD:)

However, there may be other artists on itunes for which I would pick and choose singles to buy. However, I truly believe DC’s entire album will be worth the purchase.

I know so little about music. I just know what I like. I can’t say I’m a purist with the sound. I am sad though that vinyl is a thing of the past.

LOL, I didn’t even know there were choices on itunes of 128 or 256 kbps AAC files. Or do they simply just come in one or the other?

Once again, this is all very interesting to me.

Kirsten (and every one else who is on the other side of the argument against me– which is basically everyone–), we will have to agree to disagree. Neither one of us has any concrete evidence to back up our contentions, just our gut beliefs. I have seen a LOT of talk online about mass-buying campigns, but perhaps those involved are just boasting/ lying.

Anyway, as a Cook fan, this is not about “beating” David Archuleta for me. I like David Archuleta. In fact, if he outsold Cook by the power of ten, and I thought that would have absolutely no effect on Cook’s career prospects, then I would heartily congratulate him.

But, the fact is that, Cook IS expected to to outsell Archie, as the winner. Heck, by some accounts he’s expected to outsell Daughtry, since he’s a rocker who actually won. And THAT will be nigh to impossible.

Anyway, if Archie sells three million and Cook sells two million, then it stays at the level of bragging rights between competitive fans and annoying articles in the press, and I could care less about that. As long as DC gets to continue putting out albums on his label, my concern ends there.

But, if Cook, on the other hand, struggles to go platinum then he could be dropped. If his sales numbers are obliterated by a lower finisher that could affect the promotion, radio play, and other forms of publicity he receives.

I’m surprised that I even need to make this argument. It seems pretty self-evident to me. And so, if to prevent those outcomes from coming about, Cook fans need to engage in practices that fans have used to “boost” other Idols, then I’m not above advocating for that.

(Sidenote: Soundscan could eliminate this problem altogether by only counting one purchase per customer. But, I guess that’s about as likely as Idol going to a one person/ one vote system.)

Ok– NEW TOPIC…. I’m very disappointed in KLC’s numbers. It’s almost as if the label has set her up to fail. In that case, why sign her??

Interesting “sound” talk, guys. Thanks.

I’ll download plus buy Cookie’s CD, I’m sure. I did buy one extra copy of TOML, but it was for Reggie Hamm.

I always prefer the physical CD. It’s not so much for the quality because I’m just not that discerning. I am an old timer and want to hold it in my hands while I listen, read and look at the pictures. It’s all a part of the experience for me…

BB Hot 100 numbers have leaked (top 50 plus a few)

15 David Archuleta “Crush” (2)
17 Jordin Sparks “One Step at a Time” (21)
35 David Cook “The Time of My Life” (28)
43 Jordin Sparks “No Air” (39)
57 Carrie Underwood “Just a Dream” (60)
66 Jennifer Hudson “Spotlight – Remixes” (67)
94 Daughtry “What About Now” (OFF)

BB Hot 100 numbers have leaked (top 50 plus a few)

15 David Archuleta à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (2)
17 Jordin Sparks à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“One Step at a Timeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (21)
35 David Cook à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The Time of My Lifeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (28)
43 Jordin Sparks à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“No Airà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (39)
57 Carrie Underwood à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Just a Dreamà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (60)
66 Jennifer Hudson à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Spotlight – Remixesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (67)
94 Daughtry à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“What About Nowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (OFF)

Archie is exactly where I figured he would be this week, and I think it’s great. I suspect he’ll be in the mid-20s next week (depending on airplay increase). Of course, the fall will lead to “it’s dying!” headlines by those who care to blog of such things (except for those who know what is going on). In fact, I’ve already seen such headlines and gloom and doom posts on various message boards (mostly by people eager to see the single fail). For a song that is supposed to be middling about in the 40s right about now, has been out on the radio for only 3 weeks, hasn’t gone for adds yet, isn’t on the Hot 100 Airplay chart yet, and has no music video, I’m very pleased about where he’s found himself in week 2 on the Hot 100.

(Sidenote: Soundscan could eliminate this problem altogether by only counting one purchase per customer. But, I guess thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s about as likely as Idol going to a one person/ one vote system.)

Why would SoundScan even consider this a problem? Unless one person is clearly trying to manipulate numbers (e.g. buying 2000 copies), they don’t care. The industry wants to sell units and SoundScan wants to count those units. MacDonald’s doesn’t care if one person buys 8 hamburgers, why should the music industry? They like big numbers. It only seems to be a problem for competitive fans when they don’t seem to think they have enough fans on their side.

Kirsten (and every one else who is on the other side of the argument against meà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ which is basically everyoneà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’), we will have to agree to disagree. Neither one of us has any concrete evidence to back up our contentions, just our gut beliefs. I have seen a LOT of talk online about mass-buying campigns, but perhaps those involved are just boasting/ lying.

Well, I haven’t seen any talk online about mass-buying campaigns except for some people accusing others of having done it. Of course, I don’t bother visiting Archie sites because I’m not an Archie fan so that might be part of the reason I’m so naive on the subject. That said, I have seen lots of online chat in the past and I’ve yet to see any evidence that such buying schemes are successful. Plus, I labour under the belief that most people are normal and have better uses for their money.

If his sales numbers are obliterated by a lower finisher that could affect the promotion, radio play, and other forms of publicity he receives.

He is on a different label. Don’t worry about them taking money from Cook to give to Archie.

And I think your claim assumes a lot. Jordin had crapastic numbers out of the blocks and it looked like she was going to struggle to make gold, but her label believed in her and promoted her anyway. There is a lot more that goes into promo budgets than how somebody in another format is doing. Kelly’s last album did get good airplay and sales to start with, but the label didn’t believe in the album and did little to help promote it (except having Clive go around telling everybody how much it sucked). And it withered. It’s not an either or game. Ruben got support from the label even though he was outsold. People like pointing to Taylor being outsold by Daughtry, but that blood was in the water LONG before the albums ever got released. Taylor got to gold in two weeks, but that didn’t mean he suddenly got a single released and more support from the label. There are a lot of rumours from behind the scenes that the label didn’t believe in his album. Kat sold lower numbers and got more promo and AI exposure and a video (no season 5 fanwars please. Those battles have been fought and are so two years ago).

So, people shouldn’t get upset about that precedent. These people are out there to make money. They are making all the right noises about Cook and have even spent promo money on “Magic Rainbows”. That doesn’t sound like somebody the label wants to bury. It sounds like somebody they are willing to invest in.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m surprised that I even need to make this argument. It seems pretty self-evident to me. And so, if to prevent those outcomes from coming about, Cook fans need to engage in practices that fans have used to à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“boostà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  other Idols, then Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not above advocating for that.

Well, I suggest that you do not advocate this here. This is not a street-teaming site. I believe that MJ would prefer that this sort of activity occurs on the fan-sites.

And if people are advocating: JUST SAY “NO” TO BULK BUYING!!!!11!1!ELEVENTY-ONE!!!!!!!

Anyway, if Archie sells three million and Cook sells two million, then it stays at the level of bragging rights between competitive fans and annoying articles in the press, and I could care less about that. As long as DC gets to continue putting out albums on his label, my concern ends there.

I truly understand what your saying because I was a Taylor fan. Oy. In this case, I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Cook has a large fanbase that includes all ages and males. I have every confidence that he will move albums. I think his fans are going to be interested in his work as a whole.. like a book.

Now Archie on the other hand, IF his fanbase is mostly teens, then I can see him selling more singles and having a lower amount of album sales. His cd from what I’m gathering in interviews is going to have a few different sounds. Sometimes that turns off buyers because it isn’t cohesive..therefore just the singles off it are sold. Of course, I don’t know how many older fans he has so that will make a huge difference. Either way, I’m buying both of their cds!

Kirsten, thanks for the charts! Archie didn’t fall as much as I expected. Good times!

IGetCranked-

That is one of the big myths Simon started- that DA has mostly teens as fans. He has a huge fanbase- made of people of all ages plus many men (they call themselves MADS). I hope the Archie/Cook comparisons stop, especially since they are good freinds and in different genres.

I worry that the person Cook has to compete with is Daughtry. That is the person he should be (if they must compare) and will be compared to- unfortunately.

Seeing Magic Rainbows that high on the Top 100 this long after the finale is just amazing.

One more thing- Archie’s fanbase (from frequenting several of his biggest fanbase sites) is seeing many, many signs of his success and thrilled about it. I think they are moving way beyond (except for a few) a “So there or I told you so” attitude about the Cook/Archie thing. As much as DA is different from the Jonas Brothers, the fanbase is worried about competing with their new album and various polls, etc. I think the competition between Cook/DA will be lessened if the Cook fans can get beyond trying to outdo DA and just help Cook be successful. JMO

Now Archie on the other hand, IF his fanbase is mostly teens, then I can see him selling more singles and having a lower amount of album sales. His cd from what Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m gathering in interviews is going to have a few different sounds. Sometimes that turns off buyers because it isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t cohesive..therefore just the singles off it are sold. Of course, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know how many older fans he has so that will make a huge difference. Either way, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m buying both of their cds!

I suspect that Archie’s CD will sell well out of the gate. It won’t go mega like the Jonas Brothers, but I think it will do very well in its first week. At that point, he’ll still only have one single out, and not enough time and promotion to get the type of mega-sales that Billboard chart watches are written about. Time will tell if he’s a single seller or an album seller. Or both. It’s obvious that Jive will push the teenage market (they would be silly not to), but I don’t think they’ll abandon an opportunity to get him Hot AC and AC play (which he’s already getting). And people who listen to those stations buy albums. Archie’s fanbase is also a lot broader in age and diversity than the mainstream media generally represents.

But teenagers also buy albums, if we’re talking about his teenage fans being a reason why he might not be a big album seller. Rihanna is really a strange sort of artist. She sells tons of singles but not as many albums. But I don’t see any similarity between Rihanna’s particular fanbase type and Archie’s. If we compare him to teenage acts like the Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus–both are able to sell albums, not just singles. Part of the reason “Crush” sold so well its first week is because his fans were clamoring for original material (and that #1 position on iTunes helped get the word out to non-fans who also bought it). And his album will be 12 songs of original material, released not that much later than “Crush” (I was told at the Dallas concert that they’re still shooting for late October/early November).

I don’t really think the mix on the album will affect sales that much, as long as the singles are cohesive to the extent such that they would appeal to the same audiences. And I too was told that the album will have different styles represented, from pop to r&b to a song that could be classified as “jazz.” That doesn’t mean the album can’t be cohesive. If it’s arranged properly, different styles can co-mingle and compliment each other. It’s better than having an album full of songs that sound the same, except for a bit of a melody change.

Sometimes excellant albums don’t sell well. It does happen. I think that AI will help David Cook have great sales for the album out of the gate, I think all he has to do is put out a good album, I personally believe he will put out a great album. It is silly to compare the David’s album sales because I think they appeal to a different audience, I wish them both success. It would be like comparing John Mayer and Jesse Mccartney. They are both good but very different. Lets wish them both success. I cannot wait for David C’s album!!!!

That is one of the big myths Simon started- that DA has mostly teens as fans. He has a huge fanbase- made of people of all ages plus many men (they call themselves MADS).

That is good to know! I have skimmed sites to get info but that isn’t enough to know about the fans. That’s why I said “if”. Thank you! I’m really shocked about the MADS.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really think the mix on the album will affect sales that much, as long as the singles are cohesive to the extent such that they would appeal to the same audiences.

Well I know that it won’t bother me because I just like his voice period. I like to hear different styles from my fave artists but it seems like the general public goes in an uproar when their artist experiments with a different sound. Of course Archie is different in the fact that he doesn’t have a set sound to begin with.

That was a great post. I was thinking of Rhianna ( I think she sounds like a goat in heat) and I thought that the Jonas Bro’s sold mostly singles. I gladly stand corrected!

IGetCranked,

Since Rhianna was #1 last week when DA was #2 on the hot 100, I went to youtube and looked up her video for Disturbia, and it was REALLY disturbing to me. To each his own I guess.

What the heck does ‘MADS’ stand for? I guess I would be in that category, (whatever it is), being a 27 year old guy DA fan. I check up on Idol news, Love Archie’s singing, and just his overall attitude, and positivity, but I’m not oblivious to other people’e talent, i.e. David Cook. I loved him on the sgow and can’t wait for his cd also. Does it really matter if DA fans bout 1 or 20 itunes copies? I honestly doubt that the actual #’s bought in bulk by fans really affected the charts, or were as widespread as people think. Isn’t it just possible that people liked the song, (i do), and bought it that way. Another quick note. ‘Crush’ is also in the top 10 mp3 searches on the gnutella p2p network, so that kinda debunks the whole mass buying causing the songs popularity. I’m going to the concert on tuesday. Looking forward to it!

I’m a diehard Archie and I’ve met many many fans, none of them teenage girls. In fact the last teenage girl I met was a Cook fan. Not saying they aren’t there, but his fans are of all ages and both sexes. In fact, you’d be amazed really, who likes Archie and how they’ve been affected by him. MADS – Men Admiring David’s ?? S is either Sound or Singing.

Men admiring David’s singing might be right, but I can’t remember. I will check on that.

But, the fact is that, Cook IS expected to to outsell Archie, as the winner. Heck, by some accounts heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s expected to outsell Daughtry, since heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a rocker who actually won. And THAT will be nigh to impossible.

Anyway, if Archie sells three million and Cook sells two million, then it stays at the level of bragging rights between competitive fans and annoying articles in the press, and I could care less about that. As long as DC gets to continue putting out albums on his label, my concern ends there.

But, if Cook, on the other hand, struggles to go platinum then he could be dropped. If his sales numbers are obliterated by a lower finisher that could affect the promotion, radio play, and other forms of publicity he receives.

Yes, it’s true that the winner is expected to sell more than the also-rans. However, if Cook’s CD fails to meet sales expectations and RCA subsequently drops him from their label, it’s not going to have anything to do with Archie or what happens with his album. Cook could outsell Archie by a huge margin and still be kicked to the curb by RCA if his sales don’t meet their expectations. RCA doesn’t care about Cook outselling Archie. They don’t care about Archie “obliterating” Cook’s album sales. They care about Cook making money for their label-period. If Archie’s album were to go 5X platinum and Cook’s 2X platinum, I seriously doubt that RCA would pull the plug on promoting his album or give him his walking papers.

KLC: I’m not a fan, but I’m sorry to see that her sales are so low. Maybe promotion will pick up for her once the tour is over. Isn’t her album supposed to be released next month? Maybe her album sales will be better than her single sales. At any rate, I wish her the best.

I think the competition between Cook/DA will be lessened if the Cook fans can get beyond trying to outdo DA and just help Cook be successful. JMO

I think you’ll find hyper-competitive fans from both fanbases. I will refrain from giving my opinion about which fanbase I believe fuels the fanwars the most.

At any rate, my original post, the one that caused such a storm of responses, was not in the vein of a fan warrior. It was in the vein of someone who wants to see David Cook be successful enough that he gets to put out music for a long time.

Unfortunately, Idol, by nature, is a competitive sport, and even after the show the contestants are judged as winners or losers relative to one another. And the judgment that is rendered, publically, can be determinant of their success/ future in the music business.

To date, Idol has produced only three music superstars (And Kelly is kind of using a mulligan after “My December”). Let’s hope the Davids can make it five.

And with that I am truly finished with this topic. And if I had any extra disposable income to purchase multiple singles at the moment, I would be bulk-buying Kristy’s song. Because I am genuinely bummed about what seems to be happening to her.

noctem seizure,

I wasn’t trying to make you mad. You are right that the hyper-competitiveness can go both ways.

MADS does mean Men Admiring David’s Singing.

I wish the best for Kristy as well. I had no idea things were going so poorly.

Since Rhianna was #1 last week when DA was #2 on the hot 100, I went to youtube and looked up her video for Disturbia, and it was REALLY disturbing to me. To each his own I guess.

I think her voice is disturbing.

So what say you MJ posters that we band together and bulk-buy KLC’s single to up the poor girl’s numbers?

Kidding of course.

What seems to be the problem with the single anyway? How is the support from Arista doing, or there even any?

I have a question regarding the BB computations. Kirsten said that it’s a 50%, 45%, 5% division. I was wondering how the sales are counted however. Is that 50% from purely single sales? What if a person buys the entire record? Does that count toward the song itself?

noctem seizure…

I REALLY don’t think you need to worry about Cook. He is going to do very well. He already has a mega start with all of the Idol promotion and i’m sure his label is absolutely loving him.

I think both of the David’s are going to surprise the heck out of us in the coming months. Forget about all the silly “fan wars”… these two are about to come head to head with some stiff competition and i’m not talking about other idols. From what I hear, just about every established artist is going to release a new album come November.

There will be plenty of Rock and Pop/R&B competition. If the two David’s can keep up with the established fanbases, that would be phenomenal. Personally, I think these 2 have what it takes to stay in the business. They both have a great sound and are very personable.

KLC… I worry about. She couldn’t cut it before AI and even after AI… she still can’t or rather hasn’t been able to cut it… but only time will tell. Not to offend any fans, but there is something lacking from KLC and Syesha. I can’t connect with either one.. so i’m not interested in buying their music. If I did buy their music to support them, I know I would skip their songs on my ipod.

Soundscene and Kirsten… thank you for the great information. It’s always a pleasure to read your posts.

If the DA fans have the capability of beating the popular Jonas Brothers in the TCA due to mass voting per person using multiple e-mail addresses, then they have the capability to put DA to number 1 with mass buying and mass radio requesting.

It’s all in the fanatic and crazy fanbase. Also, don’t be surprised because the fanatic parent(s) of these teens/preteens are the ones as crazy as their fanatic kids buying multiple copies of the single. The fanatic DA fans have all kinds of campaigns going to put DA to number 1. And this is worldwide. Please note that there are two types of fans for DA – fanatic fans who spend a lot of “time AND/OR money” putting Archie to number 1 and the casual fans. There are also two types of casual fans – one type are those who are easily influenced by the fanatic fans and the other type who is not easily influenced by the fanatic fans.

Based on the attendance at the AI tour, we can safely say that they were around 350,000 attendees for the 35 AI tour at about 10,000 attendees each ending 8/18/8. There are 18 tours left at about 180,000 more attendees after 8/18/8. Based on the number of attendees, how many of those are Archuleta fans. We can honestly say that many of those who attended are fanatic fans.

Therefore, based on the number of attendees, the bulk buying done by a fanatic fan would have had a tremendous impact on the total number of sales.
As weeks go by, school starts and the excitement wears off, the sales will reflect the sales of mostly casual fans and listeners. However, the fanatic fans of DA are still going strong with their campaigns, although a few are losing their fire. Nothing lasts forever and people are fickle.

To be honest, I have heard of a lot better “original” r&b songs than Crush, so I am very surprised by the chartings for the first week. Therefore, being a fanatic fan does work and having worldwide campaigns do work to boost the sales and chartings. But I truly believe that all of these “bulk buying/mass radio requests” will backfire.

It is obvious that Jive is behind Archie…good for him.
However, RCA has done nothing to show that they are behind Cook’s music. Yes, they have promoted Magic Rainbow but this is about his music now, and they are doing…..nothing.
There is no need for competition between the fan bases; it is quite easy to accept and acknowledge that Archie got the better deal here and will be the success of this year.
As a Cook fan, I will take the album and be glad to have it, as I have no doubt that he is simply glad to provide it.

Tij.. You make it sound like American Idol has the wealthiest fanbase ever! Since when do “grannies” and “children” dictate what’s hot on the billboards? Dedicated fans can certainly create a buzz, but to assume that some 350,000 fans can organize to buy singles in bulk is quite outrageous. If that were true, Archuleta should have gone platinum in the first week. The fanatic fans dream come true!

Fanatic.. crazy fans?.. or solid fanbase foundation that will hopefully grow according to the talent. Correct me if i’m wrong, but doesn’t every successful artist start with fanatic fans?

Elvis.. Beatles… Rolling Stones.. Michael Jackson.. Madonna.. N’Sync.. Nirvana.. Aerosmith.. Tupac.. the Margaritaville guy.. Neil Diamond..

If an artist has something unique to offer to a large fanbase, then yes, they will have “fanatic” fans and whether they are among the living or deceased.. they will be very successful for a very long time.

Cook has a fanbase as strong or even stronger than Archuleta, so you shouldn’t worry about Cook. He has proven to be a talented artist and will continue to do so. Every day I hear about Cook on the radio.. I think RCA is doing right by Cook.

OK, as a Cook fan, I admit that it hurts me to read how the media portrays Archie’s success as “besting Cook” or “crushing” him or whatever. I’ve stayed away from this site most of the week to avoid those types of articles, actually.
I like Archie just fine and I wish him nothing but the best, but the fan-warring and competitive nature of post-Idol careers is so very unfair in my eyes. Why is DA’s success translated into DC’s failure? I used to think that Cookie will at least get a reprieve until his own first single comes out, but appearantly that’s not even necessary. No, he’s already been “crushed”.
All I want is for him to make music and be able to keep making music for a long time. Also – I am not a DA fan and I seriously can’t wait for their careers to go their separate ways already. I’m tired of comparisons, I’m tired of hateful uber-fans bashing the other David. It wasn’t fun during the competition and it’s even less fun now. I just want to move on to the next step and leave the AI days behind. I guess that’s too much to ask for?

Sherryw I don’t understand what you expect from RCA. He’s got top shelf writers, producers, and collaborators. The buzz created after his win has been all about him being the real deal, innovative, creative, etc. They also seem to be giving him creative license on this project. I don’t get what they are doing wrong. You seem to think that David A’s success has to be on the back of Cook’s. That is just not correct. He is going to have bigger threats to his future than little David Archuleta, and that is not minimizing what young David is accomplishing, but all Cook has to do is his thing, and he will be fine. Please articulate what you expect from RCA, then maybe I would understand your pessimism.

I also want to add that hell yes, David A has some ott, fanatic fans. And guess what? He earned those fans. He didn’t have to promise anything, all he had to do was sing. If some are compelled to buy 20 downloads more power to them. I can guarandamntee that that was NOT the norm. Those saying that are just trying to minimize what he has done. What KLC could not do. He grabbed a segment of that idol audience and kept them in his thrall even after many had written him off as irrelevant.

Of course there is a story here, but it’s not about anyone throwing Cook under a bus, just didn’t/will not happen. This may be the best one two punch idol has ever had, and you better believe that they will work that sucker to death! I can see it now, covers on the rolling stone. Both of them making Peoples sexiest man issue (Archie is gonna be 18 at years end and will qualify much to many people’s amazement), this is the stuff giving Simon a serious hard on. Hence him now talking Archie up in the press. Good for them, good for the franchise, you won’t have to wonder when they will be on this show next season. Early and more than once!

Cook’s success is not guaranteed with RCA. If Cook is classified as successful and has fanatic fans then this Time of My Life would be triple platinum by now. And don’t forget that many many Cook fans also bought Archuleta’s Crush to support Archie, Cook’s young buddy. Don’t underestimate the power of a fanatic fanbase at spreading their campaigns out there. There are a lot more lurker fans than you think reading these campaigns all over the Internet and following through. This gifting campaign is huge – http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=“gifting campaign” archuleta&btnG=Search
and the primarily goal of the fanatic fans of Archuleta right now is for him to be number 1. Nothing else but for Archie to be number 1 like the fanatic fans are in some sort of a vendetta. Even looking at the tone of some die-hard media reporters, many of them are reporting Archie’s success in relation to Cook instead of in relation to Archie himself as an artist. It is as if these die-hard Archie fan reporters are in some sort of a vendetta against Cook, proven by the fact that they can’t stop comparing the two. With this, Jive knows what to do with Archie and their artists.

I like Archie just fine and I wish him nothing but the best, but the fan-warring and competitive nature of post-Idol careers is so very unfair in my eyes. Why is DAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s success translated into DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s failure? I used to think that Cookie will at least get a reprieve until his own first single comes out, but appearantly thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not even necessary. No, heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s already been à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“crushedà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

Most of Archie’s fans were not pleased with this take by the media any more than Cook’s fans were. It prolongs a battle that should be long dead, and it really just pits the two against each other, continuing the notion that to be a fan of one means you can’t be a fan of the other. It’s ridiculous. This isn’t American Idol anymore.

tij–Archie’s fans aren’t doing anything with the media to continue a vendetta. The “crushed” reports are written by legitimate journalists, not Archie fans on a mission. They want a good spin, so they bring up the battle of the Davids. It’s not a tough leap to make. I’m also not sure what Archie fansites you are visiting to get such an inflated view of their willingness to bulk buy. There’s a lot of talk, but not so much action. I know that at one major forum, fans shoot down any such schemes brought in by newbies who don’t quite understand the way Billboard works. There’s no massively organized bulk buying plan. There’s tiny plans that go nowhere. There was a push towards the end of the first week to get out the word that people should buy the single before a certain date for it to count towards first-week sales, but that particular campaign noted that people should not bulk buy. Archie’s fans may be fanatical when it comes to spamming free internet polls, but buying a song multiple times is a whole different thing.

Abbysee, what I expect from RCA is a showing of support for Cook by making an effort to bring HIS music to the public (maybe one song, at least). Hooking him up with top shelf writers means absolutely nothing if the music gets buried. To say that he isn’t being/won’t be thrown under a bus depends on your perspective, I guess. IMO, when someone can sit at #35 on the Hot 100 with a craptastic coronation song in its 14th week (despite the fact that said song is a departure from their style and a misrepresentation of their upcoming album), they deserve to be made a priority. I don’t see in any way, shape or form where that is happening. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised. And, no, Archie doing well has nothing to do with Cookie and will not lead to his failure. A lack of interest in promoting him in his chosen genre of music most certainly will. This is what Archie has that Cook lacks: support and promotion to their desired demographic within their market. That is why I don’t expect anything more than the album. It may be a tough pill for a lot of Cook fans to swallow but the stardom thing isn’t going to happen for him. The media has already erroneously lumped him in the Ruben and Taylor category in spite of his impressive stats with what is typically a throw away coronation song. In light of the outpouring of negative press, RCA shows its support of Cook and helps to generate positive buzz by doing……nothing. Therefore, I expect the obligatory, minimalistic “winner” press tour prior to the album release, a quiet single drop at some point (looking more and more like after the album – because we all know how rainbows help to sell rock music), album release and……the end (major label-wise, anyway). For whatever reason (unfathomable to me), Cook’s talent doesn’t seem to be enough and the hands of his fans are tied. It’s not as if there is a single to request or buy (on the contrary, many DC fans have been patiently awaiting TOML’s death since May) as we are still waiting. There is no hand wringing involved here (I think nervousness or anxiety of some sort are requirements for that categorization). However, it is a realistic expectation (one shared by quite a few DC fans at this point) based solely on what has been presented for our viewing, reading and listening pleasure (or lack thereof). To suggest otherwise with nothing to back it up is (IMHO) rather patronizing. His fans shouldn’t stop looking forward to his album just because the career that he is capable of won’t come to fruition. The apparent lack of interest in making said career possible shouldn’t be considered a reflection on his talent (which exists in abundance). I don’t see the one two punch that was referenced (although I am sure Archie will do well). Acceptance of reality is just a tad difficult on the Cook side of things right now. I have no problem with being pleasantly surprised but I’m not holding my breath (as I have seen nothing concrete to convince me to do so).

sherryw, first you say this:

And, no, Archie doing well has nothing to do with Cookie and will not lead to his failure.

And then you follow it up with -

The media has already erroneously lumped him in the Ruben and Taylor category in spite of his impressive stats with what is typically a throw away coronation song.

Well, aren’t the two strongly connected? There is no negative media for DC outside of stupid comparisons between his and Archie’s Billboard placing, is there? Just to point out that Cook is not getting bad press on his own merit, and hopefully as things evolve, his own work will gain him media support as well.

You truly do have the most pessimistic outlook I’ve encountered, and I’m a big pessimist myself… I simply don’t believe RCA has any reason to abandon Cook altogether, and I hope that if his album is good (as I believe it will be), he will get enough media attention to attract new fans and appeal to his own fanbase. He might not sell hugely out of the gate (with RCA’s lagging release schedule, I just don’t know anymore), but I do think that if talented people get exposure, they will find success. David Cook will not get the KLC treatment… He is STILL the winner of AI and there is no motive to bury him – they’ll just be losing money.

Acceptance of reality is just a tad difficult on the Cook side of things right now.

Oh, I don’t know about that. The things you consider “reality” have not happened yet, and may never happen, so I hardly think anyone needs to accept them. Right now, all this is is speculation.
No one can predict the future, and I see no reason to be discouraged by Cook’s Doomed career path when he hasn’t even released his first single yet. I’ll be the first one to cry foul if he doesn’t get proper promotion when there’s actually something to promote.
As for myself, I’m letting go of the assumptions and the forecasts. We’ll just have to wait and see. Hopefully, not too long.

I don’t think Cook fans have anything to worry about. RCA has promoted “Magic Rainbows” like crazy. I have heard it and seen it everywhere. In the past couple of weeks, they have reaired several prior shows of him singing it. I know that Cook’s fans aren’t crazy about him singing that song, but it does get his name and face out there. My only beef is that they should make a coronation song to fit each of the finalists that fits into their genre better. That might be difficult.

I heard that he recorded his single a couple of weeks ago, so I expect it will come out soon. I think he is going to do just great. I don’t think it is RCA holding him up. I think he has been writing his own songs and is doing things in his own time frame to get it just right.

sleepyinsomniac,

I am just learning about how this works. I am not positive about those percentages, but I believe the highest percentage is airplay, the second is singles bought and the third is online streaming. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

There will be more promotion for DC and DA after the tour, when they have the time.

The only thing you can say the RCA people are sloppy now are DC webpage.

As an avid Archie fan, I just wanted to add my voice to those saying I have not been any happier with the media pitting the Davids against each other than anyone else. I don’t post here often, but I read for the different perspectives, which I very much appreciate. I admire both Davids. I wish them both as much success as they can handle and hold, because they are both uber talented and both super, sincere, and stand-up guys. How could you not want two such talented and genuinely decent guys to succeed?

The media likes a battle. They like the drama. Unfortunately there are fans on both sides (though I think they are small in number) that feed from and into this tension.

Again, just wanted to emphasize, from an Archie who posts often about our David and supports him in any way I can, that most of us have been focused on supporting him because of his own merits and independent of Cook and his own much deserved success. I, too, look forward to the day when both guys can chart their paths separate from this very tired and very old drumbeat of the story of David v. David. Just want to remind fans of all types that we can have some impact on the tone of such things by posting here and elsewhere to remind writers and bloggers that that approach is vapid, irrelevant, stale and NOT NEEDED. If that is all people can come up with, then they need to move on to a different subject entirely.

PS: I also don’t think Cook has a thing to worry about. He is collaborating with stellar talent. He will surely keep his fans happy and make many more.

If anybody’s interested in the status of the AC rolling chart today, since I brought it up yesterday. . .DC remains at #3, Sara B. at #2, and LL at #1. He had a spin drop in the past 24 hours, as did SB, while LL jumped up again. However, even with this temporary drop, he still has a bullet because he’s up over his numbers from last week and SB and LL do not have bullets because they are down from their numbers.

My hands are not wringing.

Here’s a link, though you may have to join. (free)
http://www.allaccess.com/

Are Cook fans traumatized Taylor or Ruben fans? Why all the negativity? Cook is on top of the charts, near a number 1, has an incredible producer, is making the album he wants and is expected to make millions? Just because his (mostly) teen fan base got Archie to #1 on iTunes for a week all is lost?

Unless 19R is in the business of losing money, they’ll do everything possible to support Cook. He’s a big potential cash cow for them. Getting caught up in the media is ridiculous. They have to put a spin on their articles to spur reader interest. Because how many people actually know or care what the Hot 100 is and would read about it?

Yes the mighty power buying Archie fan base can do ANYTHING. Too bad they couldn’t remember to vote with the same fervor.

P.S. I don’t go to Arche fan boards or anything but from the comments I’ve seen on general sites, I don’t see any animosity at all towards David Cook who’s been wonderful to Archie.

I have a question regarding the BB computations. Kirsten said that ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a 50%, 45%, 5% division. I was wondering how the sales are counted however. Is that 50% from purely single sales? What if a person buys the entire record? Does that count toward the song itself?

The Hot 100 calculation is actually 55% Airplay (Audience Impression in millions), 40% Sales (sales of Commercial Singles or Digital Download Singles/Tracks in thousands) and 5% Streams (sorry, I don’t know the units).

If a person buys the entire album, it does not count towards the sales of each of the songs on the album. It will count for the BB200. The two major Billboard Charts are the Hot 100 for singles and the BB200 for albums.

The apparent lack of interest in making said career possible shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t be considered a reflection on his talent (which exists in abundance). I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see the one two punch that was referenced (although I am sure Archie will do well). Acceptance of reality is just a tad difficult on the Cook side of things right now.

Rock albums and Pop albums are different beasties. Jive likes to get its singles out there early, but RCA doesn’t. Cook isn’t being treated any different than other RCA artists and RCA has had huge success with its formula for its type of artists. RCA didn’t drop a single for Daughtry before that album released and I don’t think anybody is calling Daughtry a neglected flop. Here is another example: Fall Out Boy is releasing their new album on November 4th. Where is there new single from their new album? They are still out promoting their old album. Are they being neglected? No. Rock albums just don’t tend to get super-early single releases.

Typically, for normal CDs, you see a lead single go for adds about 6 to 8 weeks before the album is released. Then 4 weeks later you get the single released to iTunes. Isn’t Cookie supposed to be releasing his album in mid-november? That means it’s still a little early to expect his single. Now, RCA seems to think that Idols don’t need a lead off single for their debut album so they don’t usually throw one out there until a week or two early. Their theory is that they don’t have to use the single to build up demand for big first week numbers because that demand is already there. Then, they use the single to keep the sales up in following weeks. They want the singles to peak at a different time. Perhaps they have learned from Jive that a lead single isn’t a bad idea. Nevertheless, RCA has had huge successes with Idols, so I don’t think we can say that Cook was doomed when he signed with them or that they are neglecting him. It’s just too soon to say that they are doing that especially since they did go to the effort of promoting his coronation single which they haven’t really done for anybody else in the past. Now, I may not like that song, but I can’t argue with its success.

We got a bunch of David vs David news last week because Archuletta truly did something that is rare/newsworthy (on the charts) and the press just wanted to spin it. Plus, the title “Crush” gave them a ready-made headline. I don’t think the press has a vendetta against Cook because they are generally very positive and I seem to recall most of the pundits wanted Cook to win back during the competition.

I just think it’s too early to write Cook off. When I hear that he is being forced to record an album of Dianne Warren and cover songs, then I will think he is doomed.

If Cook is classified as successful and has fanatic fans then this Time of My Life would be triple platinum by now.

Eh. It’s a coronation song. The fact that he appears to have gotten non-fans to buy it is a huge success. And I don’t believe that there are that many fanatic fans out there that even buying 200 copies each they could get it to triple platinum. There are not that many singles that go triple platinum and those songs are very popular. I still maintain that there are a limited number of crazies in every fan group so artists should really appeal to the general public because those 50 uber-fanatics will quickly run out of cash.

I just don’t believe bulk-buying campaigns are all that successful. I’ve just seen too many bulk-buying campaigns fail to generate big numbers and that has helped to restore my faith in humanity.

Unless 19R is in the business of losing money, theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll do everything possible to support Cook. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a big potential cash cow for them. Getting caught up in the media is ridiculous. They have to put a spin on their articles to spur reader interest. Because how many people actually know or care what the Hot 100 is and would read about it?

I totally agree. Why would they not support Cook? Anybody who can move the number of units he did post-Idol (and I think there is every indication that he moved a lot of units during Idol) is clearly worthy of support. He’s in a marketable format. He’s popular. He moves units. These are the the kinds of artists that labels love. And labels love to make money off of guys like him.

Just give it time.

Amen,Kirsten.

Two of David Cook’s most admirable personal traits seem to be patience and optimism. Just sayin’.

I don’t understand the doom and gloom mentality about David Cook. I completely agree with Kirsten and everyone who believes DC is doing just fine.

RCA is not sinking money into all that promotion for TOML and DC in general without anticipating a big reward.

I think quite a bit of TOML success last week had to do with it being featured on the iTunes what’s hot page. How does a song all of sudden make it to “what’s hot” on there after 3 months? Is this something iTunes does on its own, or is someone paying for placement? Olympic coverage didn’t hurt TOML, but I think a week on the front page did more. As soon as it was taken down, the sales slipped to what they were pre bump.

RCA knows what they’re doing and will be promoting DC’s album to maximize profits. I’m sure they’re closely watching the Amazon pre-order numbers as well. I realize that Amazon is a very small part of total sales and tends to attract the older crowd, but I see it as a little focus group that’s nice to monitor. DC’s pre orders for an album that has no release date and no title has been in the top 100 or close to top 100 since it was put out there several months ago. I don’t know what algorithm Amazon uses to figure out their top album sales on an hourly basis, but looking at the placement of other Idol related albums, it seems that DC’s pre-orders are not too shabby.

I’m choosing to remain completely optimistic about DC’s future. I see mostly positive coverage in the media and he is almost universally loved by everyone he meets including many celebrities. The Crush media spin is just to get a good headline and keep people interested in actually reading the articles.

Both Davids are being supported by their labels and will have initial success. Later success will be determined by the quality of each album. I intend to buy DA’s album to support him as well. Last time I was into Idol was season 2 and I bought both singles and both albums. The fan wars are silly, but it does keep things interesting.

At any rate, my original post, the one that caused such a storm of responses, was not in the vein of a fan warrior. It was in the vein of someone who wants to see David Cook be successful enough that he gets to put out music for a long time.

It’s a bit hard to believe with the continued insinuation that Crush’s opening week sales (and subsequent high Billboard chart debut) are due entirely to a massive powerbuying campaign (even after that theory has been debunked repeatedly on this blog). It seems more like a thinly veiled attempt to downplay or diminish the impressive debut of Archie’s new single. It’s as if Archie couldn’t possibly have anyone other than his rabid, ultra-organized army of tweens and grannies interested in listening to and purchasing his music.

I scroll through a couple of Archie blogs, Fanblast and FanofDavid, and I don’t see them pushing bulk buying. Yes, I see them pushing gifting, but usually it’s the same people over and over…you know, the kind of posters that just love to hear themselves talk and seem to want to be the queen of the blog….It’s all so much cheerleading, as I see it. I don’t think it produces all that much.

For the record, I’m old and I bought one, lol. Anyway, the main thing Archie’s blogs seem to push is polls, like the best smile, the cutest idol, and such. They DO go bananas on POLLS! They also press streaming on AOL. I don’t participate in those activities because I have more to do in life than vote, chase polls, and obsess.

Where Cook is concerned, (I’m a fan of his too btw), I do wish they’d get his single out faster, and the sooner the better! I followed Taylor and I was livid at the slow release of an album and releasing a single AFTER the album came out. That slow business is a total bummer! It causes fans to be on pins and needles and have to read (nasty media) about others success ad nauseum (Daughtry). So, I do empathize with the Cook angst.

Fans are not the ones to blame here however. Any fan will celebrate any success of their favorite….it’s natural I think. Imo, blame lies with the record companies, the media, and sometimes the perfectionism of the artist. There are probably more factors too, but I’m just a novice at this record stuff. Personally, I’ll buy a Cook i-tune the day it comes up for sale WITHOUT any pushing from some fansite. Why? Because I like his voice/style…just like DA’s….that simple.

I’ve rambled. Will stop now. Just wanted to put in a few thoughts myself

Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a bit hard to believe with the continued insinuation that Crushà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s opening week sales (and subsequent high Billboard chart debut) are due entirely to a massive powerbuying campaign

I don’t believe that at all. Archie was one of the most popular contestants on Idol in 7 years, and he didn’t get to release a song like previous runner-ups have. I’m not surprised that he has 200,000 fans out of 25 million who watched the show who were eagerly waiting his first release and bought the single as soon as it came out, especially since the tour is still going on and Idol is not completely off the radar. Plus, there are the Idol fans who will buy anything that any Idol releases (although, based on KLC’s sales, I guess there are only about 1,500 of them, lol) I don’t think that he’s had much opportunity to gain new fans yet, but I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before Crush goes back up the charts.

As for DC, I am very eager to hear new music from him, but I’m not “worried” about the lack of a release date for a single at this point, and I don’t think RCA is going to throw him under the bus. He mentioned in a new interview that the label told him to make a great record and not worry about writing singles. Either they don’t give a shit about him or his music or they have enough faith in him that they believe whatever he writes will inevitably have single-worthy songs. I’m definitely leaning toward the latter. I think they’re invested in him for the long haul – if they just wanted to score a quick buck on him, they could have just handed him a bunch of Daughtry reject songs. He’s worked his ass off and done everything they’ve asked of him, and I think the label is going to treat him just fine.

Are Cook fans traumatized Taylor or Ruben fans? Why all the negativity?

Well, I wouldn’t say “fans” since I’ve never seen this before on any of the sites I go to. I’m thinking it’s “fan”. LOL. Okay, maybe 2 or 3 folks, but you get my drift.

That said, I don’t want to beat up on pessimistic people too much. They are entitled to their opinion. I don’t see it that way, but I would hate for people to feel like they can’t post here anymore or anything like that.

Just wanted to add that I do think it helps the winner for his/her actual ALBUM to come out first. Just my personal opinion.

Oh, I also meant to say that when it comes to first albums, most Idol winners don’t have anything to worry about IMO. If your album is good and seems to fit who you were on the show, you should move copies. Taylor’s album had nothing to do with his on show persona to me, plus it was (arguably) not all that good. Jordin really wasn’t that popular to begin with – no huge online fanbase, no buzz – plus she was pretty undefined musically on the show, so she had to work for her sales. But Cook and Archie are both hugely popular, and Cook had a pretty well drawn persona to play off. All he has to do is record something halfway decent (and Cavallo’s involvement pretty much guarantees it will be) and he will sell plenty. Lots of casual Idol fans will give a listen and pick it up just because they remember that nice guy who won idol. Not to mention his big old fanbase. Same goes for Archie. Plus, both guys are in generes that sell right now, so they are positioned to get on the radio and pick up new fans. Really, these guys are so set it’s not even funny.

To me, it’s way more the SECOND album that will be the problem for these two. That is historically where Idols run into trouble. But maybe that’s just me.

That said, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to beat up on pessimistic people too much. They are entitled to their opinion. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see it that way, but I would hate for people to feel like they canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t post here anymore or anything like that.

Thanks Tinawina! You said that better than I would have

This has been a great discussion, but I’m going to throw out a gentle reminder to everyone to please respect each other’s opinions…

…It seems more like a thinly veiled attempt to downplay or diminish the impressive debut of Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s new single. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s as if Archie couldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t possibly have anyone other than his rabid, ultra-organized army of tweens and grannies interested in listening to and purchasing his music.

…and to please not question your fellow poster’s motives.

Thank you! Carry on.

I’ll have the entire Billboard chart up, hopefully, later today…

You’re right tinawina, and it’s the second album that can present a problem for any of these idols.

(I also agree that Taylor’s album had nothing to do with his show persona. It wasn’t at all what people thought it would be. Even as a fan, I didn’t like it.)

I was enjoying the conversation until the doom-and-gloom over DC started up. Why fret?

DC’s got a great producer with a history of producing hit records. RCA let him have the co-writers that he wanted. Hell, he’s getting to co-write the damn thing at all, instead of having a sheaf of songs handed to him and being told, um, go sing over there. He got to hire a close friend and former bandmate for his band. He says that the CD is ahead of schedule. In short, I think that the CD will be great, and I seriously doubt that a great CD by the American Idol winner is going to sink into oblivion. At a minimum, I think that it will have as much chance to succeed as any debut album this year, and what artist can ask for much more than that?

There’s a good article in today’s headlines here at MJ’s titled – “We ask David Cook about touring, recording and coming home”.

It’s a good interview, a good read. He seems very happy and content with how things are going. We need to trust him at his word(s).

What FolkFan says just fills me with (happy) anticipation.

It’s funny, I’m detecting some parallels between some of the worry about DC’s future viability and some of the worry during the DNC about Hillary and Bill and Barack and Michelle. Lots of buzz about worried Dems, but so far so good!

Though an expert worrier myself, I’m not wringing my hands over the current and future sales of DC v. DA. Their futures are bright.

However, I AM more interested in anything numbers-related than ever before in my life (I hated math). Thank you for this mucho-fascinating topic!

à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦and to please not question your fellow posterà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s motives.

Sorry MJ…my apologies.

It just makes no sense to me that 19/RCA wants him to fail. As the winner, how would it benefit anyone for their winner to fail? I keep seeing mentions of Taylor and Blake. I think Taylor is probably the only winner who got royally screwed and he was not being handled by 19. Blake was not the winner. Even Ruben who seems to be an afterthought now did very well his first year out and has the highest number of first week sales for a winner, did very well on R&B radio and garnered a Grammy nomination. Just the fact that they are letting DC do so much co-writing makes me think that in terms of how RCA handles a rocker he’s being treated better than Bo.
FWIW I have saved Chris D’s MySpace bulletins from early on and back then 10/21 they were still deciding on a single, then on the 26th it came out It’s Not Over was the first single. It went to rock radio first then it went for adds on Pop the first week in Dec.

Wow, the tone of my first post was “concerned”, but I have to say that I’m not nearly as down on Cook’s chances as some of the posts that have appeared on page three. As the first rock Idol, his task is far more complicated than any other winner so far, but he’s got a chance. And that’s all any artist can ask for.

I do want to clarify something that I said earlier. Obviously, since Cook is with RCA and Archie is with Jive, it’s not like RCA would be moving money to Archie if Cook’s sales start out slow. I do understand that. However, if DC is no longer seen as the real American Idol, he won’t get the same buzz, and that, in its own way can further affect his sales, which in turn can affect his airplay, which in turn can affect the level of continued promotion he receives. Or maybe it’s airplay, then sales, then promotion. But, however the flowchart works, it is something that can have have an effect.

soundscene wrote,

“Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m also not sure what Archie fansites you are visiting to get such an inflated view of their willingness to bulk buy. “

___________________________

There are LOTS of them bulk buying – it is all over the Net.

However, if DC is no longer seen as the real American Idol, he wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get the same buzz, and that, in its own way can further affect his sales, which in turn can affect his airplay, which in turn can affect the level of continued promotion he receives. Or maybe ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s airplay, then sales, then promotion. But, however the flowchart works, it is something that can have have an effect.

LOL. Some might argue that if he isn’t seen as the real American Idol he’ll get more airplay on Rock. I won’t disagree that it can be a viscious circle.

There are LOTS of them bulk buying – it is all over the Net.

Seriously? Seriously? This is the evidence. Please.

OOOO! Look what I just found, a memo from Clive:

To: Tom Corson (EVP and GM RCA Music Group)
Tom Carrabba (EVP and GM Jive/Zomba Group)
Simon Fuller (Executive, 19E Label Group)
From: Clive Davis (BMG Visionary)
Subject: Fans are Not Motivated

It has come to my attention that the Idol fans have become placid and normal. What happened to the good old days of the Clay and Kelly wars when fans would attack each other with homemade posters? When was the last time somebody was taken away by ambulance from an Idol concert after having been pummeled with Poptarts for cheering for the wrong Idol? I have not had one single report of general insanity!

How can this be? I thought we had a plan. Did you people not follow the plan? Are you creating your own plans? Do you not realize that this is not allowed? I create the plans. I do the thinking. Don’t listen to Barry. His leadership is a mirage to fool the public. I’m in charge. You will do as I say.

This, for those of you who seem to have forgotten it, is the plan. Part 1: Create Fanwar. Part 2: Reap the sales benefits. Now, the fanwar is sadly deficient. It’s more like a fan food fight. This cannot be allowed to continue. This is what you must do. Tom, you release that little muppet’s single this week. And don’t tell me it hasn’t had time to gain on the radio. I’m not interested. The other Tom, you make sure that you release nothing. Not one crumb to the media. Make it look like we hate the kid with the combover (BTW Who is his hairdresser? We should talk).

Then, Fuller, you get your minions to organize a posting campaign. You can have Percocet to help. She knows all those crazy fan sites and can blend in. I want endless posts about how people are bulk buying CDs. You know the stuff “I just bought 37 copies of Fling” (or whatever that song is called) and “So what, I just cashed in my retirement savings so that I could buy 529 copies”. And “You call yourself a devoted fan? I just sold a kidney on the black market so I could buy 983 copies!!!11!!”. You know, the usual stuff. This will get all the fan groups in a frenzy and it won’t cost us a dime (the minions are still interns, right? That damn union hasn’t made us start paying them yet, have they? If so, fire them and get some homeless people to do the posting. Give them the leftovers from the craft table from America’s Got Talent provided the Hoff hasn’t eaten everything in sight).

I expect results or heads are going to roll! I’m not running a charity here.

Get to work

Clive

Here’s this week’s Idol Billboard Chart:

http://mjsbigblog.com/idol-billboard-update-90608/

BTW, I just snipped a post. Cutting and pasting a bunch of posts from random fansites–Gah with names–is not allowed here, particularly if it’s to disparage or generalize about fangroups.

Out of context posts, particularly without links, prove nothing and merely serve to fan the fan war flames. Please don’t do that. Thank you!

Love this thread. Kirsten does an awesome job.

Kirsten, lol.

I feel like Archies has become the new urban legend after claymates.

LMAO, Kirsten! :lol_tb:

Hee. I’ve missed the Clive faxes. Has he moved up to email?

Ok, I am a huge archie fan and not a country music fan but I just bought Kristy Lee’s single to support her. Go Kristy Lee!

I’ve missed the Clive memos too. Hee!

:lol_tb:

*bows to Kirsten*

I had to concentrate very, very hard on not laughing so hard as to scare everyone in the office to death. :thumbup_tb:

Thank you for writing that, it brightened my day a little! Even if I could only laugh on the inside. :lol_tb:

Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s success is not guaranteed with RCA. If Cook is classified as successful and has fanatic fans then this Time of My Life would be triple platinum by now.

I think there are a LOT of Cook fans out there just didn’t buy ToML because they knew it does not reflect Cook’s own music. Looking at Amazon, it shows that 89% of people who looked at the pre-order page for Cook’s album, bought that album, while only 4% of those people bought ToML. Taking into account that many of those people may have already bought ToML via iTunes, that’s still a big discrepancy. And considering how well ToML is doing/has done in the 14 weeks it’s been around, that’s kind of impressive for a non-existent album to be doing.

By the way, 12 or so weeks after the pre-order for Cook’s album appeared on Amazon, it’s still (for today) hanging on to #94. I know Amazon represents only a small percentage of the total music-buying public, but it’s some indication at least, no?

I myself pre-ordered Cook’s album weeks ago, which I’ve never done before with any artist (other than authors). I thought I was being a complete luna-fanatic doing so and was admittedly mortified at myself for doing that. Yet, there are obviously a lot of people like me who’ve done the same thing. Because I personally consider pre-ordering a yet unfinished album as being (a bit) on the extreme edge of fan behavior, I’d like to think that Cook’s fanbase must be pretty large indeed — considering that ‘semi-fanatic’ fans like me cannot possibly be making up the bulk of his fanbase. Not to mention there are lots of people who prefer to go to stores to buy their music instead of ordering online.

(By the way, how come Archie’s pre-order isn’t up yet? Isn’t his album coming out sooner?)

You know the stuff à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“I just bought 37 copies of Flingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  (or whatever that song is called) and à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“So what, I just cashed in my retirement savings so that I could buy 529 copiesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . And à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“You call yourself a devoted fan? I just sold a kidney on the black market so I could buy 983 copies!!!11!!à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

:lol_tb: :jittery_tb: :clap_tb:

Kirsten-big LOL to the Clive email.

Keel-Archie’s album was up for pre-order for a couple of weeks before it was made unavailable. Nobody knows why, but it’s been down for several weeks now. I would be curios to know whether this is some sort if Jive strategy. If it us, I’m at a loss as to what the benefit would be to force people to buy the day of release rather than pre-order.

By the way, how come Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s pre-order isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t up yet? Isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t his album coming out sooner?

Archie’s preorder was up for a while, and was doing fairly well, but then disappeared when the single went up. I have no clue why.

Regarding Amazon: I don’t know how they determine their numbers, but they change hourly. Cook was 94 last hour and he’s now 64, so there is some funky math going on there.

I read a while ago that Amazon is about 6% of the music sales. So any Amazon pre-order numbers can only be seen as a representative sample. I do believe that it is a good sign that DC has been doing so well with the pre-orders, but the real test will come when the album actually exists.

Kirsten FTMFW!

:thumbup_tb:

Kirsten you slay me!! :lol_tb: :lol_ee: That Clive mail has me hurtin’! :lol_tb:

What’s next – Jive funded Archie “big box” warehouses, modeled after Sam’s Club or BJ’s, where the fans can purchase his releases by the gross! No, Metric ton! Fanatic fans, come on down! roflmsao!!!! :lol_tb:

Ok, Kirsten, we have somewhat opposite perspectives on the discussion in this thread , but that was friggin’ funny!

With regards to the Billboard lists, I am now really questioning the wisdom of Jive’s strategy. Archie’s drop from #2 to #15, after only one week, seems very precipitous. In fact, he’s lucky he didn’t get to #1, or that could be some kind of a record.

And the thing is, it’s NOT his fault! The sole responsibility lies with his record company. In Kirsten’s comic turn above, she depicted the Jive CEO being concerned that DA didn’t have enough radio adds.

If Jive had simply waited to until they had the spins, not only would Archie likely hit #1, but he would have had staying power to boot. Now, at the very least, he has to endure some bad headlines for a week or two.

But, it also seems possible to me that the plunge could also affect his adds and spins going forward, if radio directors (etc.) conclude that the single has already peaked and is in decline.

Also, I think, arguably, it hurts all the Idols because it reinforces the perception of the things we discussed in this thread– Idol artist releases, bolstered by their crazy Idol fans who buy like mad, but have other no fans outside of that, so once those sales dry up, they are left with nothing.

Anyway, it’s possible Archie will climb back near the top, although that would be a seriously volatile chart progression. But, if he doesn’t rise back up again, then I think Jive’s plan has to be seriously questioned.

With regards to the Billboard lists, I am now really questioning the wisdom of Jiveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s strategy.

Jive has been doing great.

Anyway, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s possible Archie will climb back near the top, although that would be a seriously volatile chart progression. But, if he doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t rise back up again, then I think Jiveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s plan has to be seriously questioned.

No, it is a common progression for a digitally released song. It will climb back up.

I don’t know whether it is true, but a while back someone posted a comment saying they had contacted Amazon as to why DA’s album was no longer available and they wrote back telling them the amount they had for sale sold out. Maybe they didn’t order as many as Cooks?

Anyway, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s possible Archie will climb back near the top, although that would be a seriously volatile chart progression. But, if he doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t rise back up again, then I think Jiveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s plan has to be seriously questioned.

Once the tour is over and Archie is on every talk show singing it, along with a video, I don’t doubt for a second that it’ll go back up. It might get to #1 yet.
I don’t know if it’s the outside perspective or something, but I’m very realistic about Archie’s chances for success, and they’re very very good. It’s a no brainer really – he has the huge devoted fanbase from Idol, who hasn’t gone anywhere, and might have even intensified since the finale, he has a record company which knows how to market and sell him, and he has catchy pop tunes. In today’s market – he’s set.

I’ll be alot calmer about David Cook’s odds when I have release dates and the slightest inkling about how commercial his sound is. He had quite some time to grow and change since Analog Heart.
If he were to make and album full of songs like his arrangements of ABMB and AIRNIY, he’d be golden (or, platinumed, whatever), but he’s not going in that direction, so it’s more of a crapshoot.

Just establishing myself, once again, as a confident DCook fan.

Oh, how I wish the producers would have released his sales numbers from throughout the season.

Methinks they’re hiding a big secret…..

“Anyway, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s possible Archie will climb back near the top, although that would be a seriously volatile chart progression. But, if he doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t rise back up again, then I think Jiveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s plan has to be seriously questioned. ”

A response found in another forum summarizes far better than I ever could:

“The big debut was a great thing. Great promotion for the song. Helped get it on the radar.

Archie fans have been immersed in this song for a couple of months. We’ve been talking about it since it showed up on ASCAP. For us it feels like a long time. In the life of “Crush”, it’s been out three weeks although actually, most singles start getting tracked by the “official release” date, which is either the Itunes/sales date or the Adds date. So “Crush” has been out for two weeks and most radio stations still pay it little mind as is typical. That first week (when it shot to the top of the countdowns of the biggest station in the biggest market in the United States), that was a bonus, a sneak peak.”

Keel-Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album was up for pre-order for a couple of weeks before it was made unavailable. Nobody knows why, but ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s been down for several weeks now. I would be curios to know whether this is some sort if Jive strategy. If it us, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m at a loss as to what the benefit would be to force people to buy the day of release rather than pre-order.

That was actually covered in a follow-up memo

To: Tom Corson (EVP and GM RCA Music Group)
Tom Carrabba (EVP and GM Jive/Zomba Group)
Simon Fuller (Executive, 19E Label Group)
From: Clive Davis (BMG Visionary)
Subject: Re: Fans are Not Motivated

New plan. I was just watching a documentary about seal hunting (note to assistant: Where can I get one of those clubs?) and I came up with a new idea to rile up the fans.

It has come to my attention that when we act in a predictable way, people don’t get antsy. And if they aren’t antsy, they aren’t cranky. And if they aren’t cranky, they won’t become unbalanced and start attacking each other. What the world needs is more unbalanced people and to do that, we have to throw our game plan off-kilter. We have to look crazy to attract crazies!

So, Tom, what I want you to get rid of the release date for the one that likes to scream all those sappy 80s songs (please tell me he isn’t creating another 80s mixed tape? I still have indigestion from the last one. Try to hook him up with somebody from the last decade at least. Diane has a new song you should look at. She keeps muttering about releasing those pictures of me in the toga with the goat so at least give her a call). Everybody knows we’d be morons to release that CD any other week than the one before Black Friday, but if we remove the release date they fans will start thinking the release date could be anything. Maybe even January. As if I’m that stupid. And, whatever you do, don’t give them a single. Haha! Keep them on their toes. Can you leak some story about how we’ve got him recording something from that insane Swedish chick who wrote “My Destiny”? Too much? Okay, I guess there are limits.

Meanwhile, other Tom, you get those interent book guys to not allow pre-orders at all for that little kid who sings all those “meaning” songs (what’s up with him? Make sure he gets some bubblegum pop. I still have that ulcer from Kelly’s last album. I don’t want any meaning songs! Superficial! That’s what sells. Gas is $5 a gallon. Nobody wants reality. Reality sucks. See if Miley has any left-overs we can scoop up. Just remember to change the pronouns this time). The fans will go nuts! They’ll probably chew off their own arms. Then, when we release it for pre-order and it will zoom up to number one and the other kid’s fans will chew off their arms! You’ll be able to tell who the Idol fans are from all the chewed off arms. Oh, what a perfect world! Just make sure that they still have one arm left so they can still hold their credit cards. We don’t want to piss off Walmart.

Get moving. I want a full scale mental health crisis before the end of the week!

Clive

PS Fuller, don’t send me that guy with the long hair to park cars anymore. He keeps doing Marley impersonations and confusing the crap out of the Jonas Brothers.

“With regards to the Billboard lists, I am now really questioning the wisdom of Jiveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s strategy. Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s drop from #2 to #15, after only one week, seems very precipitous. ”

It’s not that uncommon. It’s what happens to most AI coronation singles. I’m too lazy to check but I bet the other singles released that day by Chris Brown and Taylor Swift showed a similiar trajectory.What was unusual was that a brand new song with very limited radio play made it to #1 on iTunes. That never happens.

Look when you start at #1 on iTunes, there really is only one direction left to you.

With regards to the Billboard lists, I am now really questioning the wisdom of Jiveà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s strategy. Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s drop from #2 to #15, after only one week, seems very precipitous. In fact, heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s lucky he didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get to #1, or that could be some kind of a record.

And the thing is, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s NOT his fault! The sole responsibility lies with his record company. In Kirstenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s comic turn above, she depicted the Jive CEO being concerned that DA didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have enough radio adds.

If Jive had simply waited to until they had the spins, not only would Archie likely hit #1, but he would have had staying power to boot. Now, at the very least, he has to endure some bad headlines for a week or two.

If there are “bad headlines” about Archie, they will only be coming from bloggers and journalists who have no idea how Billboard works, or how “Crush” got to #2 in the first place (through sales). First, a drop from #2 to #15 is not anything unusual, nor would a drop from #1 to #15 be a record, especially for a single in its second week of digital sales. “Dreamer” and “Change” dropped much farther this week after high placements on iTunes the same week “Crush” was released. They have no airplay, so it’s not a surprise.

“Crush” isn’t the first single to hit high sales coming out of the gate, only to see them fall about 40-50% the following week. It’s unusual that a debut single from a new artist hits #2 in its first week out, but I think we can agree that his popularity on AI helped him there, coupled with the limited airplay he had and the promotion he got from being #1 on iTunes. If you asked anybody in the know at Billboard whether Jive should be worried, they would probably laugh. “Crush” wasn’t supposed to be at #2. It’s not supposed to be at #15 now. It’s supposed to be middling about in the 30s or 40s right about now. That it’s much higher than that is a bonus.

While many singles make the slow climb up the Hot 100, certain singles take a jerkier path. #2-15-30-25-22-12-4-3-5… you get the idea. There’s really no worry that his drop to #15 will affect his radio airplay or the perception of the song. People who control radio playlists aren’t ignorant of how the charts work. They know why “Crush” fell, and they’ll know why it will fall more next week. That won’t affect how Jive will push the song, nor will it prevent stations from adding the song. Jive is probably thrilled with how “Crush” is doing, and probably see its placement on the Hot 100 these past couple of weeks as merely another way to get word out about the song. Once “Crush” settles down and true promotion begins, it’ll likely take the traditional slow, steady climb up the chart that most singles take.

Further, there is no guarantee that waiting would have allowed “Crush” to go to #1. One of the reasons he was able to get to #2 is because the top of the Hot 100 is weak right now. “Disturbia” has about half the number of spins as “Forever,” but sells like hotcakes. Anything that outsells “Disturbia” has a shot at #1 (like T.I. managed this week), even if the airplay isn’t there yet. If Jive had waited, the top of the chart might have been a lot stronger, preventing “Crush” from even getting to #2.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know whether it is true, but a while back someone posted a comment saying they had contacted Amazon as to why DAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album was no longer available and they wrote back telling them the amount they had for sale sold out. Maybe they didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t order as many as Cooks?

But there are no physical copies of either album. Are they talking about the label’s decision about how many albums they are going to print and send off to Amazon? Because I would think Jive is planning on printing more albums than just the number that can be sold in a couple weeks on pre-order. Besides, the pre-order has been down for a long time. If Jive was going to adjust the number it will send off to Amazon, they would have done so by now.

Kirsten…. you’re hazardous to my health!! :lol_tb: :laugh_tb: Guts have burst, the last of my azz has been laughed off – must find that Cigna health card…. may need medical attention if this continues – PLEASE CONTINUE! :lol_tb:

Kirsten,

That last memo was made of WIN, but this is my favorite part of all:

PS Fuller, donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t send me that guy with the long hair to park cars anymore. He keeps doing Marley impersonations and confusing the crap out of the Jonas Brothers.

:lol_tb:

What sounscene said.

Expect Cook to be handled exactly like Daughtry. Which makes perfect sense.
His job will be sell albums not single downloads.

And Soundscene, as always…. :thumbup_tb:

Kirsten… LOLOLOL.

A response found in another forum summarizes far better than I ever could:

If you’re going to cut and paste from another forum or blog, could you please provide a link? Would you like to see your words on another forum or blog without attribution? I wouldn’t.

It’s simply proper netiquette.

ETA:

No problem MJ à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ I wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t sure if you allowed that hereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ thanks 4 the heads up!

I definitely allow and encourage linking, even if it’s to another Idol blog. Linking is good! .

No problem MJ … I wasn’t sure if you allowed that here… thanks 4 the heads up!

I’ll be a SME on netetiquette before long :smile2_tb:

The amazon thing: I think Jive took down the pre-order button. They don’t want us order there. Maybe they want us to buy in itunes, maybe they cut a special deal with Walmart, who knows? David has a personal connection with his fans. They won’t forget to buy his album even if it is not up for pre-order.

Kirsten your memos are hilarious! As I’m reading them I’m imagining Clive barking off these memos to his assistant in the voice of J. Jonah Jameson (?). The Editor of the newspaper in “Spiderman”.

I must say, I am very, very impressed with the intelligent discussion in this thread. I’ve learned a lot. Well done everyone.

Kirsten’s memos are awesome, but adding J. Jonah Jameson’s voice as suggested by cookcricket makes them even better.

btw… Crush is back to #4 overall, #3 pop on Amazon at the moment… Not sure why, could swore he was in the teens… o.O;
Perhaps they combined the 2 pages they had for the song??

LK08 and Soundscene…………..

Regarding: “I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know whether it is true, but a while back someone posted a comment saying they had contacted Amazon as to why DAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s album was no longer available and they wrote back telling them the amount they had for sale sold out. Maybe they didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t order as many as Cooks?”

That was in regards to Taylor Hick’s album EW. It was up for preorder then taken down, and customer service replied to a fan’s inquiry that the amount they had for sale sold out. (which was erroneous of course). But I do know that was Taylor’s album.

Now, about David Archuleta and Amazon…..
Archie’s album was available for preorder for a couple of weeks. The very day Amazon put his picture up with the preorder, the ability to preorder went away. Instead, Archie’s album got grouped with the ones that say “Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available.” He originally was ranking on an average from 100 to 200 at Amazon. Currently, his ranking, after this HUGE technical glitch, is a 36,000 . Just today I noticed Archuleta’s album went back to being available for preorder. Finally, Amazon figured out their mistake. Now, why I know this to be fact is that I have been corresponding with Amazon about the matter. Good to see they corrected their error.

tada!

Yepper! The album is now available for pre-orders… :thumbup_tb: thanks for the good follow up JudyOhio!

COMMENTS ON THE LETTER

To: Tom Corson (EVP and GM RCA Music Group)
Tom Carrabba (EVP and GM Jive/Zomba Group)
Simon Fuller (Executive, 19E Label Group)
From: Clive Davis (BMG Visionary)
Subject: Re: Fans are Not Motivated

New plan. I was just watching a documentary about seal hunting (note to assistant: Where can I get one of those clubs?) and I came up with a new idea to rile up the fans.

It has come to my attention that when we act in a predictable way, people donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get antsy. And if they arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t antsy, they arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t cranky. And if they arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t cranky, they wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t become unbalanced and start attacking each other. What the world needs is more unbalanced people and to do that, we have to throw our game plan off-kilter. We have to look crazy to attract crazies!

COMMENT: I would suspect that Clive and company are glad that Archuleta does indeed have some crazy fans.

So, Tom, what I want you to get rid of the release date for the one that likes to scream all those sappy 80s songs (please tell me he isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t creating another 80s mixed tape? I still have indigestion from the last one. Try to hook him up with somebody from the last decade at least.

COMMENT: Are they talking about Cooks singing the 80s songs?

Diane has a new song you should look at. She keeps muttering about releasing those pictures of me in the toga with the goat so at least give her a call). Everybody knows weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d be morons to release that CD any other week than the one before Black Friday, but if we remove the release date they fans will start thinking the release date could be anything. Maybe even January. As if Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m that stupid. And, whatever you do, donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t give them a single. Haha! Keep them on their toes.

COMMENT: They are talking about Cook fans, aren’t they????? Keep them on their toes about not getting a single from Cook because it keeps them motivated to talk about wondering about it.

Can you leak some story about how weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve got him recording something from that insane Swedish chick who wrote à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“My Destinyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ? Too much? Okay, I guess there are limits.

COMMENT: Are they talking about McPhee’s My Destiny?

Meanwhile, other Tom, you get those interent book guys to not allow pre-orders at all for that little kid who sings all those à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“meaningà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  songs (whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s up with him? Make sure he gets some bubblegum pop.

COMMENT: Are they talking about Archie here? The Internet book guys are Amazon!!!!

I still have that ulcer from Kellyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s last album. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want any meaning songs! Superficial! Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s what sells. Gas is $5 a gallon. Nobody wants reality. Reality sucks. See if Miley has any left-overs we can scoop up. Just remember to change the pronouns this time).

COMMENT: They want Archie to use some of Miley’s left-over songs and just change the pronouns in the lyrics.

The fans will go nuts! Theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll probably chew off their own arms. Then, when we release it for pre-order and it will zoom up to number one and the other kidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans will chew off their arms! Youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll be able to tell who the Idol fans are from all the chewed off arms. Oh, what a perfect world! Just make sure that they still have one arm left so they can still hold their credit cards. We donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to piss off Walmart.

COMMENT: Archie fans will go nuts with Archie singing Miley’s left over song. Then they release Archie’s CD for pre-order to zoom it up to number 1 which will make Cook’s fans angry and try to beat Archie.
So they want a competition between the two Davids so the crazy fans of both Davids compete with each other on the sales.

Get moving. I want a full scale mental health crisis before the end of the week!

Clive

COMMENT: Basically, Clive are enjoying that Archie’s fans are so crazy and they want Cook’s fans to be as crazy to get the sales war going.

PS Fuller, donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t send me that guy with the long hair to park cars anymore. He keeps doing Marley impersonations and confusing the crap out of the Jonas Brothers.

COMMENT: The Jonas brothers are dumb???

CONCLUSION: It looks like 19E will be playing with the crazy fans of both Davids to make themselves some millions of dollars from the stupid fans. They truly love suckers especially the ones who bulk-buy and are kept on their toes wondering about the album/single! They like it when the crazy fans wants to compete in sales. They want motivated fans- crazy fans!!! Good strategy!!!

I wonder how long this craziness and obssessiveness will last among the fans.

Coming out of lurking for the last 5 months to react to that last post. OMG. Someone else please break the news to tij about that ‘leaked memo’.

I thought Kristen’s posts are the most entertaining. Not until I read tjj’s.

I ain’t got the heart….. :blush_tb:

Someone else please break the news to tij about that à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹leaked memoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢.

:sealed_tb: :innocent1_tb:

I just spit tea all over my computer screen! The last 4 comments… *dies laughing*

I have a silly question.. sorry guys..

I have Itunes om my home pc and buy all songs through them. I wanted to gift Crush to my niece who does not have Itunes yet or an IPOD so I bought it through Amazon. It is now sitting on my desktop. What is the best way to send this file to her now? Can I just email it to her mom’s computer? :blush_tb:

ealbino, yes you can email Amazon mp3 as attachment. It is not protected like itunes.

How weird is it that David is back to no. 4 at Amazon. He only got so up there the day of Crush release. There are still two same versions of Crush for sale, stupid.

Thanks ianamy… I hope my niece (actually my best friend’s daughter but I call her niece.. lol) does not then email all her friends.. I told her if her friends wanted it I would buy it for them. However I’m sure lots of people still get it for free unfortunately.

If her friends have itunes you can still gift them. Now the school is back, hope these little Archies promote Crush among their friends.

GOOD ANALYSIS FOR A TWELVE YEAR OLD POSTER

ahahahah. i am soooo funny. … face it…. the season 7 idols will die out after the tour – all of them will eventually disappear. There are more important things in life than making “people you don’t even know personally” nor “care about you” rich. Only .016% of the world population care about the top 3 idols. No one talks about them anymore in real life but the very few obssessed ones.