Idol Sales News ‘“ Week Ending 11/09/09

Kris’s LLWD numbers continue to suck.

Increased radio play still isn’t bringing the single anywhere near Gold status.

Well, Kris had a 41% gain last week. His single made a bigger jump this week to the 70s on iTunes so it should easily hit 100K next week. But yes Kris’ single sales are pretty poor. Adam’s are lousy too. They actually seem to be following a similiar path for single sales. RCA must be dying a little. Expect way more radio promo because that stuff about Adam being the next big thing looks ridiculous with such poor sales.

FYE is doing much better this week but I think we have a LO situation where the single sales will be deducted when the album is released.

Wow! You go, TfM. LOVE THAT SONG. And the video…hoo boy. But I am no longer complaining about FYE, b/c after the iTunes snafu, it is selling extremely well, and picking up some notable adds and getting airplay, tho Mix stations don’t seem interested to date (CHR).

VERY HAPPY FOR ADAM. No worries here.

um Adam’s numbers do suck! I think next week will be better, for Adam, but what the heck happened to Kris. I seriously thought his numbers would have been higher judging by the movement on the charts.

ETA: MJ I think your opening paragraph is only inviting fanwarring.

adams FYE numbers will go up when he performs it in the AMAs and the TFM will go up again when 2012 opens

I personally don’t expect LLWD’s numbers to really increase until and unless it hits top 30 on CHR and top 20 on Hot AC, although his TV performances SHOULD also help the numbers. It’s nice to see its sales going up some right now anyway. I expect the same things for FYE.

Nice bounce for Cowboy Casanova. I’m surprised at some of the album tracks that sold, especially the title track of the album. But maybe it sold because it’s the title track. Loving that Someday When I Stop Loving You sold pretty well!

expect way more radio promo because that stuff about Adam being the next big thing looks ridiculous with such poor sales.

Really? I think the AMA kickoff will be big. But I am no expert, and I am tired of worrying, frankly. Adam’s going to do fine.

ETA: Whassup with Allison’s numbers? Will the snippets help? The banner last week sure didn’t. Where’s Jive’s promotion for her? Only one Jingle Bell and I think GMA in December? I am puzzled.

lol well, as an Adam fan, I’m disappointed. I would have hoped for better numbers. If we bought the album on AO (or itunes, or Amazon), does that also translate to a sale of the single on the Billboard chart? If not, I’d feel much, much happier with the numbers as the Album is charting so well. If not, that means that even with the album in the top 100 of Amazon pre-orders for so many days, and quite of few of them in the top 10, that fewer than 18,000 copies of the album sold and that would be as much of a condemnation of the state of the industry than of Adam.

No worries here

Same.
It’ll be spun six ways from Sunday by anyone with a bias, but yesterday’s high continues and the future remains bright.

My own personal spin is that it can’t include sales from Adam official as there should have been some numbers for the 3 day period starting October 31 – Nov. 2 when it first became available.
So that would make these Amazon numbers plus what half dozen from iTunes made it through the snafu gauntlet.

He’s fine.
Promo anytime now, but he’s fine.

I thought 2012 already has opened? (I stand corrected). But yeah, these numbers are pretty close to LLWD’s; it’s interesting to see how some fans choose to view them when they’re one guy’s numbers as opposed to when they belong to the other guy’s single.

Either way, it’s time for a reality check for ALL fans: just because they were on Idol doesn’t mean Kris and Adam are going to be instantly platinum sellers. Everyone should really be hoping that these songs don’t just sell well on iTunes – they need to be selling well or at least steadily for an increased length of time. Shooting up the charts and then falling way down without climbing again is not what you want in a single.

ETA: Thank you suebrody :D

I thought 2012 already has opened?

No, it opens this weekend.

Kris’s LLWD numbers continue to suck.

Seriously? The numbers aren’t incredible, but it’s clear that they would be much worse if it wasn’t for the airplay. The period where hardcore fans bought multiple copies ended weeks ago, the best part about the numbers that he’s seen in recent weeks, aside from the fact that the sales have been stable, is that these numbers are do to the song reaching those who are outside of the idol fanbase. IMHO, this is very good news, and says a lot about the shelf life of LLWD.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t FYE also available from Adam’s website, even before it appeared on itunes? It was also available from other online retailers even when itunes didn’t have it. Considering that these early sales are due to hardcore idol fans, I don’t think the itunes excuse will hold up.

Just like Kris, Adam doesn’t have the massive or fanatical base that previous AI contestants had. His online base is loud, but they aren’t that big. And the initial sales show that neither have connected with people outside of the idol fandom yet. I actually think that Kris has a head start on that front, since LLWD has been out for over a month.

Alright, I’m sorry but if you’re getting anything from FYE’s and FIBOU’s first week sales numbers (and LLWD’s sales from the last month) other than that this is COMPLETELY FREAKING NORMAL for new songs from new artists, then you sincerely need to go get your head checked. Or bash it against a brick wall a few dozen times (I need to feel some sense of justice from the thousands of times I’ve done the same reading comments).

This is normal. NORMAL. Don’t try to go justifying “low” sales or explaining why these numbers are totally okay given the circumstance of your Idol but totally disappointing given the circumstance of the Idol you hate.

Yes, you, I’m talking to you.

Just like Kris, Adam doesn’t have the massive or fanatical base that previous AI contestants had. His online base is loud, but they aren’t that big.

I agree. I also think Adam’s fanbase is a little older and will probably buy his album. The younger fans tend to buy singles. I’m still wondering where all the S8 fans are. Allison’s first week sales are also pretty lousy.

::Shrug:: I don’t typically buy singles from anyone, unless you can’t get it from an album. I only got “FYE” because it was free with the album preorder.

I am personally more interested in how their albums sell, so don’t really judge the artist’s future by their single sells. That goes for both Kris and Adam. Most people I know are more willing to plunk money down for an album, not a single. We’re just not that invested or obsessive.

Personally, I think they will both do fine. Just don’t see the irrational expectation for them to be gold right at the start. They are both new artists on the block, no matter what media sources say.

As a fan of Adam, Kris and Allison, of course, I would have liked to see better numbers for all three. And it’s inevitable that fans will ‘spin’ the numbers to suit, so that doesn’t bother me. But I cannot believe what I read when I first came to this page. And, no, sorry, taking it away does not make it okay.

suebrody: Whassup with Allison’s numbers? Will the snippets help? The banner last week sure didn’t.

Well, I for one was expecting her number to be in the mid-4-figure range, so frankly I’m kind of happy it was relatively close to 5 figures. No promo, no winner’s attention, no deluge of celebrity attention… didn’t expect much initially.

Yes, I think the snippets will help. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the badge (wasn’t a banner) did help her a bit.

Where’s Jive’s promotion for her? Only one Jingle Bell and I think GMA in December? I am puzzled.

She has two jingle balls, actually — Memphis and Orlando. She’s going to be starting promo in a few days. I think they’re just taking a slow approach with her, which is fine with me.

Disappointed with the numbers, but hope they improve. JMS, the album presales wouldn’t be in those sales figure, they are from Monday to Sunday of last week. Also, I don’t think album presales count as sales for the single, at least they didn’t for LLWD’s season pass we were told.

Glad FYE’s moving up the iTunes charts this week and hope for better numbers next week. That’s all I can do.

My pleasure, ryo. :) I think that 2012′s opening will give TfM a bump, but that’s not the single that RCA is pushing (is it even getting radio adds? I don’t think so).

I don’t understand the tone of the headline, either. Kris is getting a lot of spins, and this will increase as soon as his album drops on 11.16. Adam’s iTunes sales went waaaay up yesterday (I mean, #10 album on iTunes? #1 on popchart?). I am concerned about Allison’s FIBOU, but not Adam or Kris. Am I missing something???

Are there TfM numbers?

taks – I don’t know what’s normal I’m going based on what people have said on the blog. I have never followed numbers of a new artist or any artist, so if you say this is normal I’m taking your word for it.

Taks is right, these numbers for Kris, Adam, and Allison are normal for new artists, it was the numbers that previous idol alums put up that were abnormal. In a way, given the lack of radio play for these three, their numbers are abnormal too, just not to the extreme level as previous AI contestants. While the debut numbers that the others put up were nice to see, after the buying frenzy by AI fans, there sales fell back to earth, and became dependent on radio play just like everybody else. These people are going to have long careers based on people connecting with their music, not on how big their AI fan base is, or some media outlet touting them as the next big thing. Getting people who didn’t watch AI should be the focus, not bragging about who has the biggest AI fanbase. Having a big AI fanbase did not make it easier for the Davids to get airplay, and it won’t make it easier for Kris or Adam to get it either.

Wow, I’m surprised by these numbers. I didn’t expect that much of a jump for LLWD, but I’m thrilled. The single is definitely on the right track.

I am surprised FYE’s numbers did not at least hit TfM’s numbers – really surprised. I’m assuming this is a full week’s worth of sales, which basically puts Kris & Adam about the same in sales – Kris had about 15k for 3 days, IIRC.

I really think it’s the economy – the fans are probably still out there but people are thinking twice about spending any money, even if it’s $1.29.

Very happy with Allison’s numbers considering how Kris & Adam sold.

Adam’s #s look a lot like Kris’s early #s. And I think that for Kris, the hardcore sales are gone so the huge leap is for people that have heard the song and liked it. I think Kris has firmly moved into the typical phase of a new artist rather than an AI alum. Adam I think will have another week or two with the hardcore fans before he too will be in the “typical new artist phase.” As for Allison, her #s make me sad. While I don’t even love the snippets that I heard, I know this is an album that will end up in my collection because my husband was a huge Allison fan. But at the same time, he has no interest in the single.

ETA: Now that LLWD video is available on iTunes, how will that impact sales?

::Shrug:: I don’t typically buy singles from anyone, unless you can’t get it from an album. I only got ‘FYE’  because it was free with the album preorder.

Me, too. I got a free FYE from both AO/Sony and iTunes. The last single I bought was Katy Perry’s Hot and Cold, and only b/c iTunes made a mistake, so it was actually free (I have another free one, too, due to another mistake; waiting on that one).’

I must be missing SOMETHING b/c I do NOT understand the negativity that this headline (even if it’s been taken down) produced. Am I missing something? Srsly. And I only mentioned Allison b/c it seemed low, given that it’s been out a few weeks (right?). But I don’t know.

I don’t understand. Please enlighten me.

I am surprised FYE’s numbers did not at least hit TfM’s numbers ‘“ really surprised

Assuming album pre-sales do not count toward single sales, I’m not surprised. When TfM came out, we were told that it would not be on the album so I bought it. I did not buy FYE as it is included on the album.

Not all ‘ardent’  fans of Adam were involved with criticizing the sales of LLWD.

Very true.

Those numbers for FYE suck ass. I mean talk about pathetic and disappointing. And waiting for the next two weeks for the AMAs to make a difference and having everything ride on that? Well that makes sense…only not. FYE seems to be doing better this week, due to a bump from the album, but it needs to sustain that and get some sales outside his fanbase before two weeks from now’s AMA performance.

And at least Kris’s numbers are increasing with increased airplay and didn’t freefall like say, TFM’s did. So while Kris’s numbers are also not great, at least their number is after weeks of being out there, when the debut is supposed to have a pretty high number, and then a drop off after that. So LLWD not only stabilised, it’s seen some incremental gains from that. Which is good.

So yeah, FYE’s numbers are incredibly low. I mean, talk about a disappointment! They SUCK. That being said, as I have been saying for weeks now for LLWD, I am for giving it time to grow and do better. I’m not willing, as I wasn’t with LLWD, to just go ‘one week, you’re a failure!’ But disappointing? yes.

Yeah, Adam’s numbers are definitely lower than I expected – but do we have any comfirmation of what this includes? How do we know if any purchases on AO are included? Anyway, the numbers will be better next week for sure.

MJ- is this you actually saying this or Kristen? I am a little disappointed with this comment. Are you really saying that Adam’s fans were making the Kris fans say that Kris’ numbers suck?

LOL. I’m so going to get burned in effigy.

I’ll admit it, I said it. The site was down this morning and I had to go out, so I sent an e-mail to MJ this morning with the stats and included my bitchy comments, because, yes, certain people (not all Adam fans, just a few) have been trolling for weeks on Kris’s numbers. It was never intended to have been published and it’s gone now. It would constitute fanwarring if I had purposely posted it.

I’m not going to delete the previous discussion because I’d be accused of covering it up (and it’s already been copied to the fan boards). But, seriously, I’m sure we all have private opinions on this that we know that we shouldn’t post here. And I can be totally sarcastic and hyperbolic in e-mails. Let’s keep it sane from here on.

So, yes, I don’t think either Adam’s or Kris’s singles have performed stellar out of the blocks. There is a lot of time to turn that around. I’ve consistent about that. Adam should have some nice gains next week.

Did these numbers come from Brian? I don’t see them on his site. He usually blogs them, right?

I’ve not been following the blog that close as of late but these numbers really suck for both Adam and Allison, in fact I don’t understand the numbers for Adams ince he sold half the number he did TFM in its 1st week (and it wasn’t his “true single”).
Kind of encouraging that Kris sales are picking up (finally), it seems that LLWD could end up being a decent size hit on the radio.

So yeah, FYE’s numbers are incredibly low. I mean, talk about a disappointment! They SUCK.

But why? I mean, the album is #10 on the overall iTunes chart. I think ppl are NOT buying the single b/c they are pre-ordering the album like I did (twice) and FYE IS getting airplay now. I think FYE will do very well once the album drops (and yes, I do think the AMAs will have some impact). I don’t know…

Methinks the opening paragraph smacks of fan-baiting and/or the fanning the flames of fanwars. It would certainly seem to encourage it. I’m really taken aback at the tone of this and believe that, if it were a comment posted, it would have been deleted and the poster at least moderated.

Did the post get edited because I don’t see that. I also don’t see numbers for TFM but somebody commented on them. I really do need glasses!

I think the sales are fine, especially if you compare them with Carrie’s new single Quitter.

I thought Adam’s single would have done better, but it’s still a nice opening. Are the numbers only from Monday to Sunday? Adam’s single didn’t start moving up ITUNES until Monday night, so I expect to see better numbers or at least no drop off. Kris’s single is starting to jump is great.

So right now, for Season 8, Adam’s unofficial single, which had no radio play etc., had the best opening numbers. Who would have thought?

Kristen- Thanks for the explanation of that awful post. But it is nice to know now just where you stand.

I don’t know if this is the right place to post it or if I should wait for the Headlines thread, but the Kris Allen iTunes Pass IS now showing the bonus track. It’s weird, actually…the pass still says “Debut Album Track 1-10″ but below that it says “Kris Allen” and then the last four songs (Lifetime, I Need To Know, Heartless and From The Ashes). Double-check with iTunes before cancelling any pre-orders!

On-topic, but *small voice* maybe American Idol just isn’t the juggernaut it was in previous seasons, and is on the decline?

Kirsten: Are you fucking kidding me?? And yet you are not banned or even moderated EVER. I cannot believe how pissed I am right now. Well, good for you. You screwed mj out of my daily hits, anyway. I was a fan of this site too.

I don’t see the opening paragraph or the TFM numbers either.

Also, I don’t think album presales count as sales for the single, at least they didn’t for LLWD’s season pass we were told.

It depends how they are sold. The iTunes pre-orders with the 99cent charge will count as singles sold (and later returned). What are they doing at AO? Are they charging for the entire album when you order it and then giving you the download? If so, those don’t count toward single totals.

Kirsten: Are you fucking kidding me?? And yet you are not banned or even moderated EVER.

I’ve been moderated. Just ask MJ.

I’m wondering if the AO numbers are included in Adam’s total?

Suebrody, you called that a banner for Allison?!? It was a little button of an icon.
FIBOU surpassed any and all expectations in my view. Hardly any radio play, no Ryan Seacrest hoopla streaming all over the planet or that other NY station. Alli is gonna be alright with absolutely no pressure. Now that we have snippets, the album is sitting stronger than ever in terms of material, and with so far 3 gigs lined up along with her nasty sick band, things will start to roll slowly but convincingly.

Did these numbers come from Brian? I don’t see them on his site. He usually blogs them, right?

These numbers are leaked by somebody who has a track record. Brian’s numbers will come out later today and should include TfM.

think the sales are fine, especially if you compare them with Carrie’s new single Quitter

Does Carrie have a new single? I thought this was a random track on her new album.

So TfM which wasn’t the “real”single seems to have performed better than the real single. So let’s count it’s first week sales as Adam’s official first week numbers. Pretty meh. Less than 1/2 of LO and 1/3 of Crush.

I also think Kris will have the lowest opening week of album sales of any Idol winner ever. He’ll be lucky to sell 80K. I hope I’m wrong.

LOL, Kirsten, ILU. Damn it, though, I missed the comments.

I just hope now that we know all S8 idols’ sales sucked initially, some of the put-downs back & forth will die down. All these idols are in the same boat – their fanbases buy up their singles initially, then the radio airplay and other exposure support sales after the initial rush. LLWD is obviously selling to new audiences, I hope FYE will follow the same path. I really think, though, that RCA has done a disservice to Adam by not having him promote the hell out of his single to radio like Kris has done. Did they think they didn’t have to work it? I hope they get off the dime and start hitting radio interviews soon, because we’re practically into the Christmas music season, and it will be harder and harder for FYE to get airplay traction.

I couldn’t get Quick Cut info this morning with the new login info yesterday. Are we permanently scorned now?

Kristen- Thanks for the explanation of that awful post. But it is nice to know now just where you stand.

Yes, it’s nice to have a very clear confirmation of exactly where Kirsten stands. It was fairly evident before, but this just proves it. Thanks, Kirsten.

I think the sales are fine, especially if you compare them with Carrie’s new single Quitter.

Quitter is not a good comparison, it’s not the single that is being promoted for her album. The first week sales you should look for to compare with FYE FBOU and LLWD is Cowboy Casanova that sold more than 100 000 I think.

FIBOU surpassed any and all expectations in my view. Hardly any radio play, no Ryan Seacrest hoopla streaming all over the planet or that other NY station.

Given the exposure that FIBOU got, I agree that the numbers are expected. Jive has got to have something planned for promo.

you can go to Pulse and get the digital numbers Squirrely.

The numbers for FYE are a lot lower than I would’ve thought (funny how I don’t see any Adam fans making excuses or even saying no one cares about sales) but the FACT is the song was available on his official site for six days before it was put on itunes and we’ll probably never know what those numbers are……

Does Carrie have a new single? I thought this was a random track on her new album.

You’re right. Quitter is not her new single. Quitter’s just an album track.

By the way a reliable poster areyoureadytojump at Pulse posted the 1st week sales for Play On: 317,695. That means she just beat out Some Heart’s first week sales by about 3k which makes me happy. I’m very happy with Carrie’s 1st week numbers because she didn’t frontload promo and these numbers are really good in this economy IMO.

The first week sales you should look for to compare with FYE FBOU and LLWD is Cowboy Casanova that sold more than 100 000 I think.

Cowboy Casanova sold more than 110k but I also think it’s not a fair comparison because it was getting A LOT more airplay than Kradison’s singles when it went to i-Tunes. It was definitely top 20 on the country charts and close to top 10.

I also think Kris will have the lowest opening week of album sales of any Idol winner ever. He’ll be lucky to sell 80K. I hope I’m wrong.

I’d love to know what prompted you to feel this way? First week album sales will include the iTunes pass which has been out since May, plus he’s doing reasonably on Amazon and iTunes right now in pre-orders and we don’t know what the WalMart pre-order #s are at all (which is where I went since I want the Daughtry track). So I think all these comments about Kris’s first week being so awful seem to be from nowhere.

FYE seems to be doing better this week, due to a bump from the album,

And from Perez Hilton saying that the song was in trouble. Actually, the itunes ranking was in the 70′s on Monday, but then Perez blogged that the song was in trouble, and just like magic, its itunes ranking went up, and the album started selling. I think I’d hold off on saying that the song will do a lot better this week, since it has only been at it’s current ranking for a little more than a day. Either way, right now, its sales are still being made to hardcore fans, probably to those who already own the single.

Someone mentioned the Amazon ranking, I’d point out that David A.’s Christmas album also topped the Amazon ranking, and is still high on their chart. Yet, first week sales of the album were 17,000 units sold, while the second week it was just at 7,000. That’s good for a Christmas album, but it does say a lot about Amazon, and how many albums they sell. I also really doubt that itunes sells a lot of records.

I think the sales are fine, especially if you compare them with Carrie’s new single Quitter.

Just clarifying that Quitter is not Carrie’s new single. The four other Carrie entries up there, not entitled Cowboy Casanova, are all album tracks that just happened to sell well enough to enter the Hot Digital Songs chart.

But, seriously, I’m sure we all have private opinions on this that we know that we shouldn’t post here. And I can be totally sarcastic and hyperbolic in e-mails. Let’s keep it sane from here on.

If you’re going to blame anyone blame me. It was a private conversation, and a mistake.

Think about your private conversations and opinions and what would happen if they suddenly became public.

And yes, I’ve modded Kirsten plenty. I mod everybody.

I couldn’t get Quick Cut info this morning with the new login info yesterday. Are we permanently scorned now?

Probably. I feel like a pusher. This won’t last much longer either.

What are they doing at AO? Are they charging for the entire album when you order it and then giving you the download? If so, those don’t count toward single totals.

Yes, that is how they sold the album. They also sold the single separately, if you didn’t wish to purchase the album.

Well, I never saw the problematic headline, and that is fine with me. As faar as numbers go I am taking the ‘wait and see’ attitude. I believe FYE will do fine and continue to have faith in Adam and his ‘people’. They know what the are doing. Will be back later, hopefully it will be more positive around here. :)

I’m predicting Kris’ sales based on the early sales of his single. He just doesn’t seem to have a very big fanbase. I hope I’m wrong and 200,000 plus fans bought the iTunes pass.

but the FACT is the song was available on his official site for six days before it was put on itunes and we’ll probably never know what those numbers are’ ¦’ ¦

Those sales have evidently not been reported to Soundscan so the “true” opening week sales for FYE (the single) may never be known.

The sales aren’t as bad as I though, they are pretty high

My blog:
http://musicisthedoortothesoul.blogspot.com/

Yes, that is how they sold the album. They also sold the single separately, if you didn’t wish to purchase the album.

So AO will be just reporting the sales of the actual single.

I’ll admit it, I said it. The site was down this morning and I had to go out, so I sent an e-mail to MJ this morning with the stats and included my bitchy comments, because, yes, certain people (not all Adam fans, just a few) have been trolling for weeks on Kris’s numbers. It was never intended to have been published and it’s gone now. It would constitute fanwarring if I had purposely posted it.

Kristen, it’s no secret you are a fan of Kris, which is no biggie because everyone is a fan of someone! :) The only issue is that people may doubt the way you present data at times, if they feel you have an axe to grind… i.e. caveats left out (these charting numbers are only for the top 50 etc.) I know that kind of sucks as 99 percent of the time, you are with us, the many faceless posters who like to trade barbs and post snart. Ah, it’s a slippery slope, and not just for you.

Idol Chatter posted the cumulative soundscreen numbers last week, which would have been great, if they had been the cumulative totals for the entire season. The numbers would have been what they would have been. The problem with that posting Brian had to clarify the numbers because they didn’t really reflect the true downloads sold for each contestant but rather the clock was started for the contestants three months after the “race” had began.

And finally, back to the today’s topic. I suspect these numbers are US sales? Is there any way to get foreign sales? And always, I appreciate your hard work. :) By the way, I think Kris’s numbers are good this week.

BTW, of course sales on other sites likes AO and Amazon count in the sales numbers. And people who purchased digital downloads of the album from AO or from Sony aren’t getting the single for free, you received the single because it is available now. The same thing is true for those who pre-order Kris’ cd or any other cd.

Crap, that link didn’t work, Kirsten. I can’t believe how not having my spin count every morning when I wake up is affecting the quality of my life. I am truly pathetic.

Re: those Amazon sales – IDK, I don’t really put much stock in those numbers, but we’ll see. It seems when the pre-order went up on iTunes, a lot of people were saying in comments they were cancelling their Amazon pre-order, so we won’t know.

Re: Kirsten’s comments – I didn’t get to read them, but I’m sure she was just saying what every Kris fan has been/is thinking. I don’t think it’s a big deal.

Whoever said they expected Kris to have the worst album sales of all-time, OK den. Do you have something you’re basing this on? As someone noted, the iTunes pass has been available since day one. We won’t know what the sales are until after the album drops. In this economy, I’m not expecting to be wowed by the numbers, but I will compare his numbers to the other albums dropping the same week. I’m sure the new John Mayer’s album probably won’t live up to his prior album sales, either – but I could easily be wrong.

Congrats to Carrie. She really rocks, doesn’t she?

So AO will be just reporting the sales of the actual single.

How do we even know they are reporting that?

Otherwise, wouldn’t there have been numbers for the 3 day period starting October 31 – Nov. 2 when it first became available??

Adamofficial sales started last Saturday, are those numbers included for Saturday or Sunday sales? When you buy the preorder of FYE the album on AO.com, you got the single free. The receipt showed the album with the price next to it, then a listing for FYE the single with $0.00 next to it and. “free” next to the title. So, don’t know if they’re counted. Maybe someone else knows. I am curious about the sales for 10/31 and 11/1, though since they were outside the sales window for the chart and yet no previous figures shown. Why would that be?

Sorry, you’re right, Allison didn’t get a banner, but FIBOU was placed as a hot track or something for a week. I saw it, but maybe others didn’t. And yes, if FYE counts for first week sales b/c of the album, then it will on AO, too. If not, then not.

I’m not used to tracking singles/albums/adds/spins, so color me new and confused.

I’m using an old crystal ball to predict Kri’s sales. Honestly, it’s just a guess. But when you combine decling album sales all around with what seems like a small fan base, I don’t think it’s crazy to predict Kris will sell fewer albums than Jordin. I think she sold 110K her first week,

Anyway it’s better to low ball then to predict world domination, you know.

“Those sales have evidently not been reported to Soundscan so the ‘true’  opening week sales for FYE (the single) may never be known.”

Why would they not be reported to Soundscan? That seems unlikely to me. Although the numbers are curiously low for Adam’s debut single.

Were Kris’s first week sales similar?

I wouldn’t have used the phrase “Kris’s sales continue to suck,” if that hadn’t been the language initially used in the post.

I would have instead written, “Kris’s sales remain uninspiring,” or “Kris’s sales don’t seem to have benefited much from the song’s added radio exposure,” or even, “Forty percent of bupkis remains bupkis.”

The tone of my comment simply echoed the tone of the now erased opening post. I’ll leave my comment unedited because Kris’s song sales do continue to suck, as do various other things.

LOL, Kirsten, ILU. Damn it, though, I missed the comments.

I’ll second that! Seriously, haven’t we all hit that “send all” button once or twice and lived to regret it? Still, sometimes it’s good to get it all out in the open and then everybody can just kiss and make up!

On-topic, but *small voice* maybe American Idol just isn’t the juggernaut it was in previous seasons, and is on the decline?

I think that was pretty clear during S8. Adam attracted a lot of excitement in the press in the latter half of the season, but on the whole, the season was an epic fail, IMHO, and the initial poor sales of “Kradison” pretty much back that up.

I’m using an old crystal ball to predict Kri’s sales. Honestly, it’s just a guess. But when you combine decling album sales all around with what seems like a small fan base, I don’t think it’s crazy to predict Kris will sell fewer albums than Jordin. I think she sold 110K her first wee,

I like Kris’ album and hope I’m wrong. Any better to low ball then to predict world domination, you know.

I’m not disagreeing with you that we shouldn’t be expecting world domination. My point is that I don’t think single sales will help with album number predictions precisely because of the economy. I do think that a lot of people are not buying the single if they already planned to get the album because the single is on the album and they’d rather not have the single seperately in a world where every penny counts more than before.

“Were Kris’s first week sale similar?”

Kris’ single went for sale on iTunes late on a Thursday night, so his first week sales were for a 3-day period, and were a little over 15k. At the time, people went nuts with criticism. I think it’s just a sign of the economic times considering Adam’s FYE sales this week. He also had the iTunes pass situation – people pre-ordered his CD from May onward, and those people got LLWD as part of the package – a lot of hard-core Kris fans never had to purchase the single. It will be interesting to see the first week album sales – I don’t have huge expectations for first-week sales after seeing how all the singles have performed.

jpfan FWIW I agree with you about Kris’s 1st week. I will be pleasantly surprised if he gets 100k. It’s NO reflection on what I think about his album because tbh it went from a “maybe I’ll pick up some tracks on i-Tunes” (based on clips) to “I think I’m going to shell out for the whole thing” for me when I heard it on AOL this week.

I’ve always said that I believe Kris’s sales path will be different – he won’t have frontloaded hype, he’s going to put his head down and promote and tour and hopefully pick up some radio play and hopefully that’ll keep his album selling steady at a modest level for a looooong time after the holiday sales rush is out. He’s not going to be the guy who opens big with tons of magazine covers and big TV performances and a very high profile. That’s not who he is and his album isn’t designed that way either. Just like Kris this season, as long as Jive is ready to stick with LLWD (song and album) for the long haul, it could creep up on people to the point they’ll suddenly realize “I actually like this, let me go buy it.” I don’t think that’ll happen 1st week but I think if Jive handles things right there’s a good chance Kris’s album will still be charting 6 months or more after it’s released and that’d be a very good thing.

. I do think that a lot of people are not buying the single if they already planned to get the album because the single is on the album and they’d rather not have the single seperately in a world where every penny counts more than before.

Add to that that when you bought the album on AO they gave you an immediate drm free high quality download of FYE.

How do we even know they are reporting that?

Okay, we don’t know that for a fact for Adam’s single. But why wouldn’t they?

We know that when the question was raised with Sony in previous years, they stated that they were reporting to SoundScan. Why would they stop?

I see no reason to change their policies with Adam because it would only serve to make it harder for him to get certified.

Not including coronation songs, does anyone have the list of debut single sales for all the winners and runner ups? Do they show a decline as the seasons progress? Is this AI fatigue or economy fatigue or bad marketing or something else? I’m really mystified by the sales I’m seeing. Of course, I do believe that radio play can really change things for these guys and likely will. Hopefully!

For some reason, fans of S8 are not into buying singles. It’s very possible, they’re all saving their $ for the album. ;)

So AO will be just reporting the sales of the actual single.

If that’s true, then why weren’t any sales for FYE (the single) reported for the first 3 days it was on sale at AO?

I don’t know if this is the right place to post it or if I should wait for the Headlines thread, but the Kris Allen iTunes Pass IS now showing the bonus track. It’s weird, actually’ ¦the pass still says ‘Debut Album Track 1-10′ ³ but below that it says ‘Kris Allen’  and then the last four songs (Lifetime, I Need To Know, Heartless and From The Ashes). Double-check with iTunes before cancelling any pre-orders!

That ITUNES pass was just confusing. I hope they are clearer if they offer it next season.

I don’t follow country music, so I didn’t know that was a bonus track. But no one outsells Carrie…she is the AI superhero! :)

So yeah, FYE’s numbers are incredibly low. I mean, talk about a disappointment! They SUCK.

But why? I mean, the album is #10 on the overall iTunes chart. I think ppl are NOT buying the single b/c they are pre-ordering the album like I did (twice) and FYE IS getting airplay now. I think FYE will do very well once the album drops (and yes, I do think the AMAs will have some impact). I don’t know’ ¦

Because we’re talking about the single sales here, and those numbers for FYE suck. They’re incredibly low for an opening debut. I am really surprised, and want to even suspect that AO didn’t report their numbers, because they are that low.

TFM was a disappointment and sold 50ish K is in it’s first week, FYE sold 18k. That is lame.

And we aren’t talking about album sales, we’re talking about single sales right now. And besides that, albums on Amazon and iTunes are not that big of a deal, especially iTunes. So having an overall number ten album on iTunes? not that great. Besides the fact that wasn’t what was being compared. That’s apples to oranges. We’re not talking about Kris’s pre-sales of his album either.

All these idols are in the same boat ‘“ their fanbases buy up their singles initially, then the radio airplay and other exposure support sales after the initial rush. LLWD is obviously selling to new audiences, I hope FYE will follow the same path. I really think, though, that RCA has done a disservice to Adam by not having him promote the hell out of his single to radio like Kris has done. Did they think they didn’t have to work it? I hope they get off the dime and start hitting radio interviews soon, because we’re practically into the Christmas music season, and it will be harder and harder for FYE to get airplay traction.

Amen. And as I’ve been saying for a while now, there needs to be some rolling up of the sleeves and getting to work. Adam got a boost from the 70s earlier this week (and that sucked) to the 20s sometime this week with a nice album boost. But clearly he needs help sustaining those sales, if his pitiable first week of sales for FYE are any indication.

All that being said, yes, just like with LLWD, I want to give it more than one week before I declare it dead in the water.

But on the other hand after hearing about “real singles,” and how AO sales would make up for the bad iTunes number…yeah. Though I don’t think AO had it available 6 days before iTunes, but I could be wrong.

After the album is released, will other songs available for sale as a single? Can they be added to radio play? Personally, I prefer some of the songs on the album than FYE (from snippets, I know, I know…), and could have downloaded those instead.
Does the official single from an album always do better than other songs from the same album even if they are individually available? Just curious. I still believe that Adam is an album kind of artist, not just single. How can I just pick one, when he is putting out a whole concert in one great package? :D

Well, I never saw the problematic headline, and that is fine with me

I did, and it scared the daylight out of me, I thought I was in a wrong blog; and since MJ’s site was not accessable earlier I thought her site might have been hijacked or something. And those numbers just gave me headache, I guess I am going to skip this thread. Peace out.

Why would they not be reported to Soundscan? That seems unlikely to me. Although the numbers are curiously low for Adam’s debut single.

Yes. I seriously think that there is WAY too much of a disconnect here for something not to be a little out of the ordinary wrt Adam’s first week figures. Those are way low compared to even TFM, and that makes next to no sense considering FYE got a major push on Ryan’s show, plus is more inline with his style of music, etc.

I had already mentioned a number of disclaimers about Adam’s potential first week numbers before, but I think some of them must definitely have played a part in this, namely:

1. AO deluxe album offer – I think anyone who got FYE as part of the album would not be counted in here, because it would be like having each song from an album purchased count as a single, which is not how it’s done.

2. itunes roll out mess up – too hard to find, error message, no advertising, late roll out.

Yeah – if even TFM had such higher numbers, there is seriously something not the same about how Adam’s numbers are being reported this time around. Just my 2 cents.

How do we even know they are reporting that?

Okay, we don’t know that for a fact for Adam’s single. But why wouldn’t they?

We know that when the question was raised with Sony in previous years, they stated that they were reporting to SoundScan. Why would they stop?

I see no reason to change their policies with Adam because it would only serve to make it harder for him to get certified.

So where are the AdamOfficial numbers for Oct 31 and Nov 1??
Until we have the answer to that one simple question we don’t know much at all.

I’m curious why RCA wouldnt report to Soundscan whatever numbers they have. I would think they would want every number to show.

Yes people are downloading the album but last year the itunes pre-orders shot to #1 on top of stronger single sales. But oh well maybe since the economy and so many other factors are at hand there shouldn’t be any more comparisons to other Idols for other seasons. But yeah I’m with JPfan as well. I’m not convinced Kris will have the lowest of any winner (I think he MIGHT be able to sell more than Jordin) but looking at the numbers of past winners I’ll be very shocked if he sells more given the huge decline in numbers overall. Adam at least has the AMA performance that will probably help his sales. Kris’ promo so far is pretty much the standard for all winners/runner-ups.

So where are the AdamOfficial numbers for Oct.31 and Nov 1??

Perhaps they reported them in a bunch. Target, unlike most retailers, reports Saturday to Saturday. Maybe Sony does too.

There have been numerous articles stating that ,in general, single sales are increasing while cd sales are declining. That makes these numbers even more curious.

Sorry, if Kirsten had said it in a post and been moderated, then no biggie. We’ve all been there, done that (well some of us have, lol) but sorry, MJ, knowing you posted it from Kirsten’s email makes it worse, IMO. There is no way you could have not seen that very long paragraph and accidentally posted it. My first thought when I opened the blog was how unusual the post looked because commentary isn ‘t included in the sales posts. Oh well, guess it’s good to know where you stand.

I thought we agreed last week that the numbers for FYE would be questionable and/or lower than expected because of: (after much discussion) 1, The single came out on AO, wasn’t reported the first three days, and we don’t know if they were reported for the next week. 2, Utunes was screwy last week. Also, sorry, i totally see Kristen and her numbers, arguments etc. in a new light-not a good one. But, like others have said, now we know where she stands- which can account for her assessments.

First week sales from Season 8

Kris Allen LLWD – 15,755
Adam Lambert TfM – 46,000
Adam Lambert FYE – 18,397
Allison Iraheta FIBOU – 9,822

Kris + Allison + Adam (2x) = 89,874 Total for first week sales.

Um… wonder what their first week album sales will look like?

Sorry but a 40% increase in sales when the song has been out for more than a month is actually a POSITIVE thing, not a negative one. I would say, looking at the totals, that LLWD has now gone past the 100,000 mark, since the totals aren’t up to date as of this very moment. How his album sells, I could only hazard a guess, but it went fairly high up on the iTunes chart when it was first made available for pre-order, and it was fairly high on the amazon.com chart at one point, so I don’t expect it to sell all that poorly. But neither do I expect it to be the top selling album for that week.

Adam’s numbers for FYE here are ok, especially compared to what Kris and Allison did thir first week. But they aren’t great, and they are way down from his TFM debut sales. But way too soon to panic. Considering how the song has jumped on the iTunes chart, and the fact it is picking up some more airplay, I would expect to see a pretty big increase in his numbers next week.

I’m hoping to see some sort of improvement for Allison in the coming weeks, but unless the promotions start to kick in, I’m not real optimistic right now.

Carrie’s numbers continue to astound me. I’m not a country music fan at all, but obviously lots of people are. So good for her.

82 Adam Lambert ‘For Your Entertainment’  18,397 (NEW) Total: 18,397 (NEW)

just an outsider or non invested fan here, trying to be as objective as possible… i am a little shocked at these numbers… and dismayed, because i seriously thought that in spite of the glitches these numbers would have been higher… idol fanbases of the winner and the runner up have a way of rising up to heavily support the debut in the first week of release, so this is not what i had expected to see – number wise…. there is a growing disconnect between the ”hype” and the singles numbers, and it’s becoming clear that there is going to be much work to be done to have adam’s appeal broaden beyond the base…… it’s early, a lot can change, album sales are yet to come, but i’m still shocked at 18k for 1st week…

“I’m still wondering where all the S8 fans are.” — jpfan

Lining up for Gokey’s CD? j/k I’m hoping Kris has the same sales’ path as Daughtry and Underwood, meaning significant CD sales as opposed to initial huge singles sales. Monetarily, I’m certain, it will be hard-pressed to compare due to economic factors and perhaps an all-around disinterested IDOL fanbase, which, in my opinion, includes all current IDOLS.

The CYNIC in me can’t hold back the DREAMER. ::grin::

Yes, Adam’s numbers are really disappointing. But if we think that TfM was bought mainly by Adam’s existing fanbase, those same people were probably buying FYE last week… Those numbers just don’t add up. The fans have been equally or actually more enthusiastic about FYE than TfM, so surely they were buying it as well?

We know for the few days that iTunes charts could be seen that FYE was in the 60s and 70s (?). Do we know what the other songs in the same position were selling last week? Because it does look a lot like these numbers are only the iTunes (and Amazon) numbers.

Oh Happy Day!! Finally, Adam’s first single is out and we have sales information!!!! Sorry guys but I’d rather he keep increasing every week than have a very high first week sale and lose steam thereafter.

I’m just so happy to see his name on the list! :-) I don’t ask for much lol

Kirsten
11/11/2009 at 11:22 am

So where are the AdamOfficial numbers for Oct.31 and Nov 1??

Perhaps they reported them in a bunch. Target, unlike most retailers, reports Saturday to Saturday. Maybe Sony does too.

Then woudn’t they do that with Allison’s numbers too. They reported her previous few day sales in a previous week and not bunch it up in the first official release week. I am just confused and seriously, I agree Adam may not have the enormous fan base that some predict, but logically believe me he has more the 18K fans that would have bought the fye single. If TFM can get 50K fye should have gotten at least 30k. I just think there is more going on here then any of us know. With that said my feeling is it all will work out in the wash and I always felt Adam is more of an Album seller. IMHO

Also, sorry, i totally see Kristen and her numbers, accessment, etc. in a new light-not a good one.

Kris + Allison + Adam (2x) = 89,874 Total for first week sales

People can interpret numbers in many different says, but raw numbers do not lie. Kristen did not make up these numbers, and yes they do suck. That doesn’t mean they will not get better and that these songs will not be hits.

Brian Mansfield has got album sales numbers at Idol Chatter

Crap, that link didn’t work, Kirsten. I can’t believe how not having my spin count every morning when I wake up is affecting the quality of my life. I am truly pathetic.

You need a cookie.

Aud: 10.358
Total: 2155
HAC: 973
Pop: 1181
AC: 1

Sorry, if Kirsten had said it in a post and been moderated, then no biggie. We’ve all been there, done that (well some of us have, lol) but sorry, MJ, knowing you posted it from Kirsten’s email makes it worse, IMO. There is no way you could have not seen that very long paragraph and accidentally posted it. My first thought when I opened the blog was how unusual the post looked because commentary isn ‘t included in the sales posts. Oh well, guess it’s good to know where you stand.

I think if it had been a concent review, it would have been fine. It’s only when data is presented, which is meant to be objective, and there is a narrative that certainly isn’t, it calls in to question the data (even if there is nothing wrong with the data.)

Yes, Adam’s numbers are really disappointing. But if we think that TfM was bought mainly by Adam’s existing fanbase, those same people were probably buying FYE last week’ ¦ Those numbers just don’t add up. The fans have been equally or actually more enthusiastic about FYE than TfM, so surely they were buying it as well?

Nope. I bought TfM because we were told is was not going to be on the album. I received a free download of FYE single when I bought the FYE album on AO.

Crap, that link didn’t work, Kirsten. I can’t believe how not having my spin count every morning when I wake up is affecting the quality of my life.

I got from another board that Adam had 80 spins yesterday. At least the spin numbers, chart numbers, and adds are going up this week! Plus, the album sales are looking good! Well, for this season anyway.

I think if it had been a concent review, it would have been fine. It’s only when data is presented, which is meant to be objective, and there is a narrative that certainly isn’t, it calls in to question the data (even if there is nothing wrong with the data.)

Couldn’t agree more.

There is no way you could have not seen that very long paragraph and accidentally posted it.

I accidentally posted it. I didn’t read it carefully enough. I was in a hurry. Believe that or not, but it’s the truth.

You glamberts need to remember FYE didn’t gain any new fans. If anything, it lost quite a few disappointed fans who adored TFM. I mean I read bad comments all over internetown. The material in FYE(album) is high risk. Bring out the Aimee Mayo track n see what happens.

I hope we are taking into consideration the fact that Kris’ first week was for 3 days only. The next week which was a full week, he sold 23,000. He sold 10,000 each week for the next two weeks and has sold 14,000 last week.
I must say Kris is on track, because his fanbase bought the single for the first two weeks. I can confidently say that, what he has been selling for the past three weeks are from people that the song is catching on with. Let’s hope it happens the same way for both Adam and Allison.
As for the album sales, we will never know till the time comes. I wouldn’t make any predictions at all. Even if one is up on the chart, the numbers will depend on what others up there with him are selling, IMO. It’s very deceptive on Itunes.
Let’s say if #1 on Itunes is seling about 5,000 a day, it’s possible # 2 could be the next highest with even 2,000. Again, we can never know.

edit: we aren’t rehashing stuff that’s been deleted

So where are the AdamOfficial numbers for Oct 31 and Nov 1??

Not just AO sales, Amazon had the single out before iTunes also.

I’m using an old crystal ball to predict Kri’s sales. Honestly, it’s just a guess. But when you combine decling album sales all around with what seems like a small fan base, I don’t think it’s crazy to predict Kris will sell fewer albums than Jordin. I think she sold 110K her first wee,

I like Kris’ album and hope I’m wrong. Any better to low ball then to predict world domination, you know

I think we should all be low balling for all of Kradison at this point, because it seems clear that none of them are setting the world on fire at this point. They could all do well over time, and as I like all three, and think all three have pretty decent albums, I would like to see that.

But comparing last season’s winner/runner-up to this ones? It seems clear that all of Kradison don’t have the kind of fanbases the Davids did last year. Though I will say the economy is worse now than then, so I do think that is effecting sales.

You need a cookie.

Aud: 10.358
Total: 2155
HAC: 973
Pop: 1181
AC: 1

Thanks for posting Kristen…..and I’ll have a chocolate chip…. ;-)

Missed Kristen’s comments but, really, who cares. Everyone loves their fave and gets frustrated/defensive at some point. I’d rather any idol beat out someone like Chris Brown, who is a total douche, or any of the Disney kids.

For me, the most important thing is their singles are finally out!! :-) And, their albums are all out this month!! :-) Must always look to the positive!!

Ok, I said I was leaving, but…. MJ admitted she made a mistake, can we move on?? She is human like the rest of us. On another note, I have said before that I think RCA/SONY is holding back info and promo for Adam for a reason. I have no idea what that reason is, but I think it is happening. They have a bigger picture and I am sure they know what they are doing. That said, I am maintaining a wait and see attitude.

Kris Allen LLWD ‘“ 15,755
Adam Lambert TfM ‘“ 46,000
Adam Lambert FYE ‘“ 18,397
Allison Iraheta FIBOU ‘“ 9,822

An asterisk on Kris’ numbers – his first week total was for a 3-day week as was agonized over quite a bit at the time. It was available for sale late on a Thursday night, not at the beginning of the week. There was quite a bit of discussion about this sales decision not being good for the first week sales that would be reported.

Also I think what these numbers show is that you can’t assume that simply because someone is coming off a popular show like AI, people are automatically going to follow their post-Idol careers and buy their music. Kris, Adam, Allison, Danny, etc. all face an uphill battle to gain support outside the AI bubble. There are a lot of very popular, established musicians — if someone is a fan of – for example — both Muse and Adam, or John Mayer and Kris — but only has another money to buy one album, it seems more likely to me that they would buy the album from the established artist rather than the newcomer.

I will say that Danny might have the easier path, since country music sales seem (to me anyway) to be holding up better in this economy than pop/rock music. If he can convince a decent percentage of hardcore country fans that he’s legit, he could do really well for himself.

mj
11/11/2009 at 11:35 am

There is no way you could have not seen that very long paragraph and accidentally posted it.

I accidentally posted it. I didn’t read it carefully enough. I was in a hurry. Believe that or not, but it’s the truth.

From my perspective I believe you. I have found that even if I don’t always agree with your opinions I have noticed two things. 1) You don’t lie 2) You are never afraid to voice your opinion. My feeling is if you intentionally posted the paragraph in question, you would not have taken it down. Oh and it’s nice to know your human… :-)

Rub- first of all not all Adam fans are Glamberts. Second of all the FYE album is still #10 iTunes overall and #1 pop. I have heard overwhelmingly positive reviews on the single and the album snippets on the internet. Also fye the single has still climbed up a couple notches since yesterday to #25 overall from what, the 70′s yesterday? with almost no radio promo from Adam. I don’t know how you can spin this negatively but you can try. JMO

You guys really can’t compare Kris and Adam sells. Really I think we at least should stop comparing them at all. I personally am not really worried about Adam at all. His single came out pretty quietly when you think about it. itunes totally messed up and it was released on an atypical day. So no stress for him at all. And as for Kris, I think he will be fine too. Both these guys are getting increasing radio adds and spins. And I am pretty sure that FYE will hit at least top 20 if not top 10. The doomsayers should be prepared to have crow for supper. If I am wrong, I will happy eat it in stead but I am pretty confident. LOL!

Does anyone have the numbers for TFM for this week — and its overall numbers? I don’t see that in this thread.

People can interpret numbers in many different says, but raw numbers do not lie. Kristen did not make up these numbers, and yes they do suck. That doesn’t mean they will not get better and that these songs will not be hits.

But in question now is what those raw numbers include. I agree with those that stated that if TFM was so much higher, and comprised mainly of hardcore fans, then it makes next to no sense that FYE would be THAT much lower unless the full numbers weren’t included for whatever reason (AO data missing for the first few days, deluxe album purchases that included the single, etc.) I wasn’t expecting 100K singles by any stretch of the imagination, but the disconnect is just too great in this case.

You glamberts need to remember FYE didn’t gain any new fans. If anything, it lost quite a few disappointed fans who adored TFM. I mean I read bad comments all over internetown. The material in FYE(album) is high risk. Bring out the Aimee Mayo track n see what happens.

Umm, have to disagree with you on that. While certainly different fans would have preferred one over the other based on style preference – FYE got very strong reviews, from fans and even more non-fans (much more so than TFM, which tended to be more heavily criticized outside of the fanbase as being more dated).

Amazon had the single out during the sales week being considered, so I’m sure that those numbers are in there. The days at adamofficial outside the sales week and that were freebies with the CE of the album, those I’m curious about. Well, FYE’s up in the charts at iTunes, spins are increasing, all I can do is hope for better sales next week.

Oh and good on Kris for the big increase this week. As I’d say the majority of Adam fans have said on this blog, I want all the season 8 idols to succeed.

An asterisk on Kris’ numbers ‘“ his first week total was for a 3-day week as was agonized over quite a bit at the time. It was available for sale late on a Thursday night, not at the beginning of the week.

Shouldn’t we also have numbers for Adam for the first three days with an asterick beside it too? But, they are not being reported for some reason. I am not sure AO is reporting any numbers. It cannot be assumed that those numbers include AO and it cannot be assumed they do not. But, since Allison’s numbers didn’t show the first three days (until now) we can assume they do not.

On-topic, but *small voice* maybe American Idol just isn’t the juggernaut it was in previous seasons, and is on the decline?

Yeah, that may be part of the shift in audience behavior. Last year’s guys came out right into the buzzsaw of the collapsing stock market, etc but they still got big initial weeks of single sales

TOML first week 236,024,
Crush first week 166, 000
Light On first week 109, 035

The drop in first week single sales this year is so dramatic it could reflect many things–people may have developed more of a wait and see attitude about purchases after a year of recession.

In terms of tapping the audience that watches Idol, it’s not like Fox/19E is going back to the well for a new 30 million viewers each year–many are the same as in past years. It was a huge year for product from past Idols: you had Cook and Sparks going platinum early in 09, then three major releases from the Idol alum top sellers, Kelly, Carrie, and Daughtry.

Crowding competition to turn Idol show viewers into consumer purchases might indeed have some effect.

I was disappointed at FYE number but we got to do like we did for Kris… just be patient folks. He got to have more exposure and I’m sure the AMA will bring good things.

so happy that LLWD is steadily climbing. The timing is so right with the album being released in 6 days! yoo hoo!!! :)

As for Allison, I think it’s pretty decent for her first week. Now she needs exposure to sell outside the AI bubble

Man, I’m wondering if I need to cut myself off from the boards :-( Last time I got this invested in an idol’s success was with Daughtry – where I really really wanted him to do well after getting kicked off in fourth place.

Well, I didn’t follow everything as closely that year, and just heard little bits here and there about how “It’s Not Over”, and the album, were doing well, and I bought my copy and was very happy in my ignorance.

Following everything so closely this year, though, puts it all in a whole new perspective, and when you see all the details like this, it can be way more discouraging, at least in the short term. Sometimes I think it’s best to just step back and follow things from more of the sidelines, and see how things do from that.

You glamberts need to remember FYE didn’t gain any new fans. If anything, it lost quite a few disappointed fans who adored TFM. I mean I read bad comments all over internetown. The material in FYE(album) is high risk. Bring out the Aimee Mayo track n see what happens.

Excuse me! and um what???

An asterik – really? Well, I can add his 2nd (full) week sales if someone wants to bring them if that will mollify Kris fans. However, I was more stunned by how the overall anemic total sales numbers for the entire AI8 class thus far.

Maybe Season 8 is more like Season 6. 19/Fremantle wanted TV rating so of course they always herald the existing season. And clearly, 19 likes this class as they signed 4 people. And 19 is helping to promote them. However, maybe they just were not as popular from a sales PoV as other years. And maybe they will have to work like Jordin to convert fans into album/single buyers. Jordin came off Idol with a small fanbase. It happens. I think people might have bought into the hype and spin fed by 19 and the media. It happens.

David Archuleta, Christmas From the Heart (8,000, +17 percent, 40,000/6,000 digital total)

this is an impressive number this week… 4 weeks into release, and it’s showing signs of sales increase… fingers crossed that addit’l promo kicking in this month and onward in the holiday season keeps this increase going…

Can’t really compare TFM with FYE. When TFM came out Adam had repeatedly said it would not be on the album so I think fans bought the single thinking it was the only way to get it. After the initial sales it was learned that TFM would be included on the album. FYE was always known to be on the album so people can wait for that.

Also fye the single has still climbed up a couple notches since yesterday to #25 overall from what, the 70′s yesterday? with almost no radio promo from Adam. I don’t know how you can spin this negatively but you can try. JMO I’m with you. Give it time to grow in sales. There hasn’t even been much promo for the single yet; album sales seem to be pushing the single as of now and doing pretty well at that. I’m not worried about this boy’s future yet. We’ll see sales grow.

Kris and Allison don’t seem in trouble to me yet either. It seems awfully early to call for any of these three.

I think the Idol scene is getting crowded with too many Idols. It seems to be hurting sales. Back in the day, only the winner really sold alot. Now expectations are high for everyone 19 signs.

Yeah ‘“ if even TFM had such higher numbers, there is seriously something not the same about how Adam’s numbers are being reported this time around. Just my 2 cents.

Given the total for TFM, I think it’s safe to assume that people decided to buy the album, and felt that there was no point in buying the single, since it’s going to be on the album, that is a waste of money.

Still, even if FYE sold the same as TFM, that doesn’t change the fact that neither Adam or Kris are getting the AI boost that previous AI contestants saw. It also doesn’t change the fact that both of their fanbases, at this point, are pretty much the same size. All the talk about how Adam has a bigger base, and how he would outsell Kris, etc. was just that, talk. I’m not saying that one day he won’t have a bigger base, or that one day he won’t outsell Kris, it’s just that we haven’t reached that point yet, and right now they are both in the same position. Both are new artists who have to find a way to connect with those who like their styles of music.

So where are the AdamOfficial numbers for Oct 31 and Nov 1??

Not just AO sales, Amazon had the single out before iTunes also

To be honest, I expected FYE to have the same numbers as TFM, just because the hardcore fans were buying it. The fact that FYE has less than half the numbers as TFM makes be question whether all the data was reported. If we are missing two days of sales, the two days where you would expect hardcore fans to buy a new single, that would make more sense.

I hope Brian is reading this blog and can at least get rid of the AO/Amazon first two day numbers. Hey, if this is all Adam sold, it is what it is. It’s 18,000 more singles then he sold last week? :)

How did TFM do this week? Anyone?

Don’t forget that Adam really didn’t get much airplay last week. So those numbers don’t seem so bad. Of course, this week is a completely different story. Not only is airplay increasing, but FYE has made an amazing leap on Itunes. His numbers should dramatically improve next week. As an FYI, FYE stands at #26 on the main Itunes chart, but on the Pop chart, it’s #16 (TFM is at #51).

Taks is right, these numbers for Kris, Adam, and Allison are normal for new artists, it was the numbers that previous idol alums put up that were abnormal

But they are now idol alums! They should be selling at the rate of the idols from the past, they are NOT normal new artists. Singles are still selling, so I am sick of hearing this blamed on the economy. These are horrible first week sales. Now do I think this is a disaster for the three, no! I think all three (and even Gokey) are viable recording artists. I think it is a statement on the last season of American Idol, and how all the manipulation just soured a lot of fans. I think those who expected a big first week for Adam based on internet chatter need to realize how very vocal a few fans were, repeatedly posting places, and it made the fan base seem larger.

Won’t worry too much. It’s Adam’s first week while others have it for a month. Again, be patient. First week of sales is not a measure of success…longetivity is. It’s not the end of the world for these guys.

Do the total sales numbers include worldwide sales or is it just US sales?

But in question now is what those raw numbers include. I agree with those that stated that if TFM was so much higher, and comprised mainly of hardcore fans, then it makes next to no sense that FYE would be THAT much lower unless the full numbers weren’t included for whatever reason (AO data missing for the first few days, deluxe album purchases that included the single, etc.) I wasn’t expecting 100K singles by any stretch of the imagination, but the disconnect is just too great in this case.

That is where I am standing.
It doesn’t add up.

Part of me thinks that RCA has intentionally confused things to this extent purely to ensure that no one can draw any conclusions with any expectation of being 100% correct.
Their motivations in doing so intrigue me.

It’s a mystery, that’s for sure.
It will be clear by the end of the year, but for those (few) of us following each moments developments, it is just effing weird.

I think what is amazing to me is that Adam can sell more singles in a week than Kris but he is not doing well. Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts. Adam has only been on Ryan’s show and sent out a twitter. I think it is time for the “underdog” theme to be gone.

Oh and good on Kris for the big increase this week. As I’d say the majority of Adam fans have said on this blog, I want all the season 8 idols to succeed.

Ok, as someone who is predominantly an Adam fan, I will go on the record to say, I am no longer even concerned about Kris. LLWD is doing well, has built up a lot of adds, spins, and sold well. It did take time, but that hardly matters in the long run. It’s not KoL level of success, but then they didn’t achieve their success overnight (by a long shot) either. So well done to him.

The Adam worrywart in me is just gonna keep staying nervous about him, more so. But, as will probably be my mantra for many weeks and months to come, I have the utmost faith in his ability and talent, and believe that that will take him far, no matter how things have started. All the stars “seemed” to be aligned for him not long ago (primo PR, magazines, AMA gig, amazon presales, etc.) Now that that music is out, and it’s GOOD, I’m not getting that the stars no longer seem so aligned for him anymore. But I do have faith in him!

“Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts.”

-I also don’t have a clue.

Also fye the single has still climbed up a couple notches since yesterday to #25 overall from what, the 70′s yesterday? with almost no radio promo from Adam

It’s not getting any promo, aside from the banner on itunes, but it did get a boost from Adam’s friend Perez using “reverse psychology,” as Adam termed it in a tweet that he deleted very fast yesterday. These numbers aren’t bad, they are normal. I’d be more embarrassed to crow about the increase on itunes, given that those numbers still reflect hardcore fans buying (again) the single. Let’s wait for the song, as well as Allison and Kris’ singles to reach a mass audience before we start analyzing how well they are doing.

You glamberts need to remember FYE didn’t gain any new fans. If anything, it lost quite a few disappointed fans who adored TFM. I mean I read bad comments all over internetown. The material in FYE(album) is high risk. Bring out the Aimee Mayo track n see what happens.

I think that Adam’s fanbase is evolving, losing fans from AI and gaining fans from outside of AI. At the moment, I think that he has lost more fans than gained, due to a lot of factors. It remains to be seen if he will manage to gain fans to offset ones that he’s lost.

Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter?

I have always expected Kris to be more successful than Adam, despite the hype. Kris won AI and should have more supporters = greater success.

See, I knew the whole “Adam fans were waiting for his REAL single to be released that’s why TfM’s numbers sucked” argument wasn’t a very good one. Wow, these are extremely underwhelming numbers for Adam. He was the most hyped contestant ever to come out of Idol. Obviously it’s still early and anything can happen, but I’m underwhelmed.

I think what is amazing to me is that Adam can sell more singles in a week than Kris but he is not doing well. Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts. Adam has only been on Ryan’s show and sent out a twitter. I think it is time for the ‘underdog’  theme to be gone.

I agree with this. I’m disappointed in Adam’s numbers because I want so much for him, but I was really surprised by how low they both did. As a winner Kris really should be kicking ass and taking names.

ETA: corrected the quote

I think alot of the hardcore fans went right to AO as soon as the FYE single was available, which was also when the Deluxe Album preorder was made available. If, as some are saying, most of these fans opted for the album and got the single for free, there’s potentially a significant number of singles that aren’t being counted, but we’ll never know how many. When LLWD was put on Itunes, Kris didn’t have an album pre-order there yet, so it was buy the single or nothing. Even people who had his Itunes Pass didn’t get the single for a week or something.

I think what is amazing to me is that Adam can sell more singles in a week than Kris but he is not doing well. Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts. Adam has only been on Ryan’s show and sent out a twitter. I think it is time for the ‘underdog’  theme to be gone.

The thing is that there was so much hype about Adam being this world wide star and phenomenon and such shock that Kris won, everyone always felt Adam would outsell him even though Kris won. Kris is always going to be viewed as the underdog because of the media hype that has surrounded Adam since before the show was even over. Also, most people have predicted Kris as a slow builder which is what is happening with him, whereas Adam was expdcted to have this crazy big impact from the beginning and that isn’t what seems to be happening here.

All the talk about how Adam has a bigger base, and how he would outsell Kris, etc. was just that, talk.

Once again, people are not taking into account that Adam has INTERNATIONAL FANS. He is charting high on Itunes in a few other countries besides this one. It’s too bad we won’t see a cumulative total for all Itunes sales, but I think everyone needs to remember the point Simon tried to drive home several times- Adam has fans all over- not just the US.

Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter?

I think Kris was slammed pretty hard when his first and second week sales numbers came out.

There isn’t anything “normal” about these singles numbers from an Idol winner and runner up. I also don’t think the promos for any of these Idols is “normal” promo for a *new* artist. New artists do not get AMA performance slots or the type of exposure that Kris and Adam received with 20+ million viewers every week. Nor do they get the media or banner ads on iTunes. So they are at a competitive advantage, if you will, over new artists.

I think it is time for the ‘underdog’  theme to be gone.

ITA-alaadam- Also totally bing ignored is the FACT that Adam’s album went to #1 and #10 in less than 12 hours! Which includes the single! And the single is still climbing up the charts! Pretty impressive to me.

I think what is amazing to me is that Adam can sell more singles in a week than Kris but he is not doing well. Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be higher? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000.

Neither of them are doing well! People need to take off their season 8 blinders, it isn’t just about Kris and Adam any more, it is about all the AI artists. Jordin was ripped apart in the media for her sales, and she sold much better than Adam or Kris! Last years top 2 sold really well, so this isn’t some long standing american idol slide. The Kris and Adam comparisons need to stop, now you need to hope whichever you backed can get traction so they can be compared to the Davids, or soon it will be Blake and Taylor comparisons.

The song analysis chart on the mediabase site is very cool. You can track any song over a 1-7 day period and it shows you how many times it has been played on any station, in what time periods, whether the station has played it yet today, the increase in spins from a previous time span the previous week, etc.

For example, over the 1st 4 days of last week (Nov. 1-4), LLWD got a reported total of 867 spins. So far this week (Nov. 8-11), it has gotten a reported 975. Meanwhile, over those same time spans (Nov. 1-4 & Nov. 8-11), FYE has seen its reported spins increase from 97 spins (Nov. 1-4) to 172 (Nov. 8-11) while FIBOU has gone from a reported 31 spins (Nov. 1-4) to 42 so far this week (Nov. 8-11).

lola
11/11/2009 at 12:01 pm
‘Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts.’ 

-I also don’t have a clue.

This was going to be my point. Asterisks all over the place if you want: who had the single out for three days/two days/a week, got an iTunes banner/no banner, wrong day of week/late at night, radio play/no radio play, concerts/no concerts, soup or salad. The numbers aren’t anywhere near past seasons, but Adam’s numbers are in Kris’s range or better for first week sales (TfM anyone?) and one can hardly be considered a failure if the other isn’t.

Having said that, it is positively mind-boggling that TfM could have sold 40k while FYE only 18K. There’s something very strange with these reported numbers. Q3, if you’re out there (the official Planet Fierce Lois Lane, LOL) PLEASE get to the bottom of this. k’thanx.

‘Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts.’ 

I wish this thing would let me edit. The answer is because the media and the glamberts set the bar too high for Adam. Everyone can see that these numbers are normal, and nothing to be ashamed of. I think the gloating comes in not at Adam’s expense, but because of things that some of his fans and the media have said. I think most people knew that some of the figures that were thrown around in terms of Adam were silly. Looking at the numbers that Adam and Kris put up over the summer, a couple of things were clear: they were not putting up similar numbers to David Cook, their numbers were pretty much identical, and that for the most part, the same people were buying products from both of them, so they were pretty much sharing a fan base. Given all of that, their debut numbers are not a surprise.

We can spin this any way that we want, but the fact is that neither Kris or Adam are going to put up debut numbers similar to the numbers of previous AI alums, but so what? The point is to continue to sell, moving 100,000 albums in the first week isn’t going to stop the album from selling platinum, or stop those from outside of the AI bubble from buying the album.

I don’t think there are too many AI artists in the market place, nobody cares that Daughtry, Carrie, Jordin, and Kelly are from AI, but they do care about these people’s music, that’s what matters. Most people probably don’t even know that these people were on the show. That’s the level that we should want for Kris and Adam, it’s only those on AI message boards who can’t get away from the AI comparisons.

ETA: it was some Adam fans who said that Kris’ numbers meant that the single was a flop, so if that’s true, then Adam’s are a flop as well. But the fact is that neither is a flop, they just aren’t as high as the numbers for previous AI alums.

Studio57

I’m sure Adam has a lot of international fans, as I’ve seen reports of how well TFM and FYE has been selling in various countries. But Kris has a lot of international fans as well. I have seen reports that LLWD has been charting very highly in places like the Phillipines, Singapore and New Zealand. Allison and Danny probably have a fair amount of international fans as well.

I can still remember when a non-fan said three days ago – Adam is not charting on itunes and this is the beginning of the backlash. Then a day after, his album went to #1 on pop and his single went to #25. Then here comes another day spelling doomsday for Adam and that he is losing fans just because his first week of sales doesn’t seem pretty good for some. I think in the end we might all end up eating our words.

I’d love to know what prompted you to feel this way? First week album sales will include the iTunes pass which has been out since May, plus he’s doing reasonably on Amazon and iTunes right now in pre-orders and we don’t know what the WalMart pre-order #s are at all (which is where I went since I want the Daughtry track). So I think all these comments about Kris’s first week being so awful seem to be from nowhere.

Well, I’d say it’s from somewhere — i.e., from this season’s top-finishing Idols just plain not getting the kind of initial sales boost that previous season’s contenders have gotten, on anything we’ve seen them put out so far. … Kind of hard for me to see how the albums are going to be any different!

However, just because they aren’t getting that initial fan boost doesn’t mean that they don’t have a shot at developing strong sales over time, just as any new artist does.

(of course, at this point, i think it may be time to wonder whether the music business isn’t going the same was as the book, magazine, and newspaper business, albeit a little more slowly — i.e., to the point where hardly anybody can sell anything at all…)

I think that Adam’s fanbase is evolving, losing fans from AI and gaining fans from outside of AI. At the moment, I think that he has lost more fans than gained, due to a lot of factors. It remains to be seen if he will manage to gain fans to offset ones that he’s lost.

Well, to start, I have no idea where you would even beginning to figure this out for sure. However, my take would be that EVERYONE on idol faces this. You vote and love these guys like crazy in May, then most of those fans could care less about the idol come November. Some fans remain, but most do not. And with all of them they need to gain a lot more fans outside of AI, just to sustain longer, healthier careers. But first, that product has to be made available to people outside of AI. Kris’s peeps are doing a pretty good job of that with his promo. Adam’s and Allison’s, otoh, have not done it as well wrt the actual music (though I think Adam’s peeps are hardly throwing him under the bus, and that there is more planned with his promo push).

I keep telling myself to focus on long-term, rather than short-term. There have been many artists who sell well the first couple weeks, then the bottom falls out of the numbers. There have been many artists who never put up huge numbers over a week’s period, but who sell steadily for months and months. Sometimes the people who sell in steady numbers outperform the people who put up huge numbers early, then drop off quickly.

Neither Adam nor Kris is anything even close to being a failure.

TOML first week 236,024,
Crush first week 166, 000
Light On first week 109, 035

These numbers have always been impressive. I think if Kris would have had a good coronation song and/or continued to sell it on tour,(The initial sales numbers weren’t bad!) the interest in his first single would have been higher.
Also, if RCA would have released FYE back in June (like Crush) during the tour, you would have seen much higher sales. Waiting to release the single until two weeks before the album drops didn’t help the numbers.

Thanks for the numbers ggdoorsfan! I was wondering where they were at. Hope with the television appearance during Thanksgiving gives the sales a big boost.

“Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts.”

What about the “Adam Storm”? Shouldn’t national exposure outweigh local radio interviews? Anyway, I don’t think it’s a fair compairson since LLWD has been out for a month.

What are the certification numbers for singles/albums? Are there just two–gold and platinum? I know nothing about these things…

I guess I was not aware that Crush was released during the tour. I was aware that DC’s coronation song was sung during the tour. Of course, BOTH of these factors would make a HUGE difference in timing and sales. If you have Adam release a new song DURING the tour, he would have jammed on the sales….Kris would have too. So, why the constant comparisons to DC and DA. The variables aren’t even close to being the same.

Can we talk about album sales in here? I haven’t seen a post for them, but congrats to Carrie for having the number one album of the week! 318,000 copies sold! That makes her the best selling female of the year, and the second best selling country act behind Rascal Flatts! Also, Cowboy Casanova is almost gold!

I think most people knew that some of the figures that were thrown around in terms of Adam were silly

See, I keep up pretty well with online media about Adam, and I don’t really recall any NUMBERS per se, being thrown around in connection to how much Adam was expected to sell. In fact, most of the hyperbole was around how talented he is, and where it got the most OTT was in comparing him to the likes of Elvis or Freddy Mercury. But all of that was in relation to his performance and singing ability.

I don’t recall many RS articles proclaiming that Adam would definitely sell 500K copies his first week because he was bigger than the Beatles (and btw, the post Amazon #1 pre-sale articles that said he WAS bigger than the beatles, were actually stating the truth because his album was higher ranked than theirs.)

What about the ‘Adam Storm’ ? Shouldn’t national exposure outweigh local radio interviews?

Yes, it does for its purpose: magazine sales. Details and RS selling out fit that purpose. Adam’s fans have a lot more merchandise to spread their money over. The national exposure will do well to get more peeps in the 2012 movie and move magazines b/c that was the purpose. Now, on to the music….when the purpose is to sell a single or album, i am sure it will succeed in its intentions as well.

no prob data785… got them from idol chatter – brain mansfield has them posted… i, too, hope to see the promo translate into even more consistent and rising sales… the christmas cd is really doing well these first few weeks w/o a lot of heavy promo, and i didn’t know what to expect numbers wise, so the consistency week to week is good to see…

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/index

Haha, wait, did anyone else notice that Carrie’s single “change” sold one copy last week? how the heck did that happen when it wasn’t even out yet lol?

I wish this thing would let me edit. The answer is because the media and the glamberts set the bar too high for Adam.

Why do I keep seeing “the glamberts”? I am not a glambert. I am an Adam fan. Should we bring out the nicknames for the Kris and Cook fans? (BTW, I’m a Cook fan too-not a Cooktard or Cook Frau) I have never called fans anything but fans. Why can’t we at least do that?

“What about the ‘Adam Storm’ ? Shouldn’t national exposure outweigh local radio interviews? Anyway, I don’t think it’s a fair compairson since LLWD has been out for a month.”

-Adam Storm (which I am actually not feeling yet) did nothing about FYE. You can always mention FYE in the interviews or the internet but without radio play, I won’t even bother to search for it and listen. So yes, Kris radio hopping and increased radio plays helped his sales. Adam’s single came in a month after Kris so he still have time to do what Kris did.

What about the ‘Adam Storm’ ? Shouldn’t national exposure outweigh local radio interviews? Anyway, I don’t think it’s a fair compairson since LLWD has been out for a month.

Well, a lot of factors play into this, but for one, Kris’s PR was much more geared toward getting the song on the radio, whereas Adam’s peeps have not really been doing that (at least not to the same degree with radio appearances/interviews). Radio play is HUGE (though less big than it used to be) when it comes to getting a song out, picking up momentum, having more people hear it, etc. Adam’s PR was often more geared toward some “non-music” related issues (2012 premiere, Details mag, etc.) It’s great to have people know who he is, but it’s not quite the same as saying “oh, and here’s his new music, and here is how you can hear it and buy it” – which, imo, was not rolled out nearly as well (in terms of itunes errors, etc.)

I think what is amazing to me is that Adam can sell more singles in a week than Kris but he is not doing well. Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts. Adam has only been on Ryan’s show and sent out a twitter. I think it is time for the ‘underdog’  theme to be gone.

I can’t speak for the others, but the fact that Adam sold more than Kris don’t make the numbers look better. The 1st week number for Kris sucked hard, so does the first week sales for both Adam and Allison.

Also when the number for first week sales of TFM came out, a lot of fans came to say that it wasn’t the “true” single, implying that FYE would sell more.

TOML first week 236,024,
Crush first week 166, 000
Light On first week 109, 035

These numbers have always been impressive. I think if Kris would have had a good coronation song and/or continued to sell it on tour,(The initial sales numbers weren’t bad!) the interest in his first single would have been higher.
Also, if RCA would have released FYE back in June (like Crush) during the tour, you would have seen much higher sales. Waiting to release the single until two weeks before the album drops didn’t help the numbers.

You have to remember that people had the option to buy songs that Kris performed on the show, only season 7′s fans had this option, and they only had it for a week. Given the choice between buying No Boundaries or one of the other songs, I think that most people would pick one of the others. And as we saw last week, Kris’ sales over the summer were at 1.1 million, while Adam’s were close to a million, which are pretty good numbers.

I do agree that it would have been better if FYE was released earlier, and in a lot of ways I think TFM hurt Adam more than helped him. I think that’s a case were the RCA publicity machine went off the track. Now, it’s going to be harder to reach new fans before the album is released.

What are the certification numbers for singles/albums? Are there just two’“gold and platinum?

There’s also diamond. But, it would take an artist years or decades to reach that level.

“Why do I keep seeing ‘the glamberts’ ? I am not a glambert. I am an Adam fan. Should we bring out the nicknames for the Kris and Cook fans? (BTW, I’m a Cook fan too-not a Cooktard or Cook Frau) I have never called fans anything but fans. Why can’t we at least do that?”

Cook fans AI board nicknames are Word Nerds. The other Cook terms you used are not self given. Sort of like “Bitterberts” arent. Those aren’t cool. just saying some people do refer to themselves in the nicknames of Glamberts, Word Nerds, etc. Plus, it seems like the media has referred to Adam fans as Glamberts quite a bit, as well as the glittery one himself.

You glamberts need to remember FYE didn’t gain any new fans. If anything, it lost quite a few disappointed fans who adored TFM. I mean I read bad comments all over internetown. The material in FYE(album) is high risk. Bring out the Aimee Mayo track n see what happens.

First off, I hate the term Glamberts, I just really do. Secondly, I haven’t seen all over the interwebs that people who are Adam’s fanbase who loved TfM were disappointed with FYE. I’ve actually seen both sides of Adam’s fanbase, some of whom were like myself (and most of say ontd_ai) more disappointed with TfM than we were with FYE, and some who liked both, some who were disappointed in both. Whatever. But if FYE was so rejected by the Adam fanbase, than they wouldn’t have pushed the single back up to the 20s this week, upon release of the album, because while I think increased radio plays can/do help sales, I don’t think it’s had enough spins and times for that to have spurred the jump in single sales this week.

That being said, yes, I do still think FYEs numbers are disappointing and yes, Adam was always going to need to go outisde his fanbase, that was always the case, but it maybe especially true going forward.

Having said that, it is positively mind-boggling that TfM could have sold 40k while FYE only 18K. There’s something very strange with these reported numbers. Q3, if you’re out there (the official Planet Fierce Lois Lane, LOL) PLEASE get to the bottom of this. k’thanx.

I think a lot of it has to do with the preorder of the Collector’s Edition at AO. Those who purchased the CE were able to download FYE immediately, but it was shown as no cost on the receipt. All the CE preorders will go towards the first week of album sales. At PF, Q3 notes that the 18,397 in FYE sales do not include the downloads that came with album purchases. It seems to me that RCA is perhaps pushing the album more than the single (and at last check the deluxe album was sitting at #2 on the iTunes pop chart so it can’t be all that bad :) ).

Can we talk about album sales in here? I haven’t seen a post for them, but congrats to Carrie for having the number one album of the week! 318,000 copies sold! That makes her the best selling female of the year, and the second best selling country act behind Rascal Flatts! Also, Cowboy Casanova is almost gold!

carrie is a veritable album and single selling monstah! i admit i’m not a fan of the country music genre, but i can give respect and credit where it is due, based on those old fashioned things like pure talent, consistency and longetivity, and carrie has them, in spades. whatever she’s doing is working like a you know what, and i like seeing our idol alums – especially the ladies – get their props…

First week sales from Season 8

Kris Allen LLWD ‘“ 15,755
Adam Lambert TfM ‘“ 46,000
Adam Lambert FYE ‘“ 18,397
Allison Iraheta FIBOU ‘“ 9,822

Actually, I think it’s kind of hilarious that Time for Miracles did the best here. Maybe that just means that the AI demographic now averages older folks to the extent that schmaltzy rock-ish ballads are way more popular than anything at all that’s more current.

Or that they should let movie companies market their music rather than record labels, lol.

(I say this as a fan of Adam, Kris, and Allison, by the way. All it really proves is that, like any other new artist, they just have to start at the beginning and build their careers from here. They’ll all be fine. You really don’t hear the past Idols complaining, even the ones with sales much lower than this. As a group, they mostly seem to be just darned happy that they get to do what they love to pay the rent.)

Also, if RCA would have released FYE back in June (like Crush) during the tour, you would have seen much higher sales. Waiting to release the single until two weeks before the album drops didn’t help the numbers.

But see, some have also criticized Jive for releasing Crush TOO early – sure the song sold well, but the timing didn’t fit as well with the album release, in terms of it peaking before then. So it’s a tricky game, but in general I think releasing a song that early would not be the smartest move. From my pov, most artists don’t release their first singles TOO soon before the album drops.

Why do I keep seeing ‘the glamberts’ ? I am not a glambert. I am an Adam fan. Should we bring out the nicknames for the Kris and Cook fans? (BTW, I’m a Cook fan too-not a Cooktard or Cook Frau) I have never called fans anything but fans. Why can’t we at least do that?

Sorry, eventhough I didn’t coin that nickname, it seems to me that the people who are called that are the ones who made it up. I was actually using it to distinguish between those Adam fans who haven’t been throwing around wild numbers, and those who have. For example, those who have said that Adam’s album would sell 500,000 copies in one day. The glamberts are the ones who have been throwing around wild figures, without any proof to back up these claims.

Actually, I think it’s kind of hilarious that Time for Miracles did the best here. Maybe that just means that the AI demographic now averages older folks to the extent that schmaltzy rock-ish ballads are way more popular than anything at all that’s more current.

LOL – it is skewing much older, that is for sure. And older fans also tend to be the more hardcore at this stage of the game.

Which is why getting these singles out BEYOND the AI bubble is so important. I think LLWD, FYE, and FIBOU are leagues better than most alumni releases in terms of being current and hot (LO was not good, imo). Once they get out more (well, more so with FYE and FIBOU, since LLWD is already getting out more), I think they will all do a lot better beyond the AI base.

The site was down this morning and I had to go out, so I sent an e-mail to MJ this morning with the stats and included my bitchy comments, because, yes, certain people (not all Adam fans, just a few) have been trolling for weeks on Kris’s numbers.

Aren’t we allowed to get snarky with the idols (within certain limits)? I though getting defensive was a no-no… I mean, screetchy anyone?

I think Adam’s problem is that for some reason RCA seems to be pushing his promo towards things not about hs music. He was on the Red Carpet for events that didn’t push his music and in magazine spreads. As someone mentioned above, Kris’s promo has been all about a radio push with all the Jingle Balls, radio interviews, etc., whereas Adam’s has been in all sorts of media except radio so his single isn’t being pushed.

Kris’s #s for his first week and Adam’s #s for his first week are both awful, IMO. However, one week does not make or break a career. Kris’s #s continue to grow and remain somewhat stable and at this point I think his sales are primarily no the non-AI fans. If Adam sits in a similar position a month after FYE is released I think he will be the same – selling to the non AI fan base, etc. I won’t call either of these guys a failure at this point.

girly girl- I never heard about Kris or Allison being in the top 10 of Itunes anywhere else. If so- I stand corrected. Do you happen to have numbers?

We can spin this any way that we want, but the fact is that neither Kris or Adam are going to put up debut numbers similar to the numbers of previous AI alums, but so what?

Now THAT is a fact. The Davids will always have that over this season. Good for them, but I don’t think even they can match that success again.

Once again. I have faith that Adam Lambert is every bit the star the media and his fans think he is. I think he himself has a split fanbase- the ones that love his pure vocals ( TFM) and the ones that love the sex appeal /visual artist( FYE). I am not contributing to the doom and gloom of thinking his career is over. His album has been in the top 10 of Amazon for a month and a half and his album went to the top 10 of Itunes overnight. If his album continues to hold like Amazon ( which I think it will because the single sales of itunes seem to simulate the single sales of Amazon), I think we will have pretty nice first week numbers.

Have people forgotten how long his Season 8 album stayed in the top of Itunes? If I am not mistaken it kept charting pretty high until MJ died at the end of June.

For example, those who have said that Adam’s album would sell 500,000 copies in one day. The glamberts are the ones who have been throwing around wild figures, without any proof to back up these claims.

That kind of excessive and unrealistic hyperbole is only being pushed by a small proportion of delusional fans and should be taken for what it is, and is not representative of the majority of Adam’s fans.

edited

FYE the single is up to #25 on the song chart. I’m not sure why people say this is an automatic download when you by the deluxe album. I didn’t get that deal when I pre-ordered off itunes (I did get that deal off AO though so perhaps there is some confusion there). BOTH FYE and TFM have outpeaked Kris’ single which has been on the radio for over two months now and is inside the top 40 on two formats.

I have no doubt FYE will see increased sales next week and then hopefully sales will remain steady. But the truth is, people seem to be more interested in Adam’s entire album rather than just the single. The album comes out in less than two weeks, if you know you get the single then perhaps you’re willing to wait??? just a thought.

Have people forgotten how long his Season 8 album stayed in the top of Itunes? If I am not mistaken it kept charting pretty high until MJ died at the end of June.

In fact, Adam’s Season 8 favorites album was inside the top 100 albums the day that it was removed from itunes and had never fallen out for it’s entire run.

Kris and Allison never made it to the top 10 overall chart. Kris’ peaked at #28 with LLWD and I have no clue where Allison peaked.

FYE’s numbers are very disappointing and I do agree with those that say that maybe AI has reached a saturation point and there are just too many Idols in them mix. The numbers would have been disappointing even if they matched TFM’s first week sales. That said, it is a tough time in the music business and not too many artists are selling platinum singles and albums. There are many reasons for this including illegal downloads, economy, radio playing a limited number of songs, etc.

Carrie’s numbers are great. She’s a star and will continue to shine. Her album has a very good chance of going at least platinum. Other AI alums haven’t done as well. It looks like Kelly wont reach platinum in her album sales in the US for the second album in a row. Daughtry will probably hit platinum sometime after the holidays, but that all depends on how the next single does. So far it’s a slow start, but it’s just the beginning. I think Archie is doing great with his Christmas CD which does show that he has a very supportive fanbase and the numbers will only increase toward the holidays. Jive must be very happy with him. David Cook worked his butt off and and has done incredibly well, but there will be an expectation for his sophomore album numbers that may be tough to match unless he has a killer first single off the next album.

Once January starts, there will be a new crop of AI contenders and we’ll start the cycle all over again. I’m looking forward to see if there is another true breakout star there.

For those saying Crush was sold during the tour, you ‘re incorrect. Crush was premiered on Z100 on Aug. 1, and went to itunes on the 12th. It was never sung on tour.

can’t wait for this… this is gonna be awesome for david, and the other artists spotlighted by billboard… the ”rumor and speculation” going round is that one of david’s christmas tour concerts in december may be broadcast… we won’t know, till it’s time to know, but everyone is real excited about this venture – and the chance to see david in concert in this way :)

David Archuleta And Company Set For Free Online Concert
Posted by Latinaroom Staff on November 11, 2009 at 11:02 am

The founders of Billboard.com have launched a new website for music lovers to watch concerts of their favorite acts online for free.

BillboardLive.com says its new concert-viewing Web site offers visitors different perspectives on performances by David Archuleta, Alicia Keys, Usher, Daughtry and other artists yet to be announced.

Music fans can select from five different views as they take in full concerts by these artists, focusing solely on the drummer or guitarist if they choose.

The site also allows visitors to use Twitter or Facebook during the live web broadcast. The application is also available on Apple’s iPhone. New concerts will be added through February.

http://live.billboard.com/Concert/View/200208

http://www.latinaroom.com/index.php/2009/11/david-archuleta-and-company-set-for-free-online-concert/

I think Adam’s problem is that for some reason RCA seems to be pushing his promo towards things not about hs music. He was on the Red Carpet for events that didn’t push his music and in magazine spreads.

I think his management team is taking the long term approach with Adam . His single will sell and his album will do well. Right now they are introducing Adam to the non-AI fanbase by hitting various media. We are at the start of awards season, so what better time to do this than now. It also gives him a chance to meet “insiders” who can help advance his career.

I think Adam’s problem is that for some reason RCA seems to be pushing his promo towards things not about hs music.

This is definitely my sense too. They are trying to brand him as much more than just the music, which, imo, in the bigger scheme of things, is probably a smart strategy (decline of music sales and all). I have a feeling RCA has a different plan for him than for other artists, and that is part of what we’re seeing now.

Actually the tour was still going on ,but Crush was never sung.

I guess I was not aware that Crush was released during the tour. I was aware that DC’s coronation song was sung during the tour. Of course, BOTH of these factors would make a HUGE difference in timing and sales. If you have Adam release a new song DURING the tour, he would have jammed on the sales’ ¦.Kris would have too. So, why the constant comparisons to DC and DA. The variables aren’t even close to being the same.

Light On was NOT released during the tour and it wasnt exactly burning up with airplay.

That kind of excessive and unrealistic hyperbole is only being pushed by a small proportion of delusional fans and should be taken for what it is, and is not representative of the majority of Adam’s fans.

The official Google ads for the album that I’m seeing around the net that come from RCA/19 are advertising his album as “the most anticipated album of the year”. A small proportion of fans aren’t the only ones throwing around hyperbole.

Everyone can see that these numbers are normal, and nothing to be ashamed of. … Looking at the numbers that Adam and Kris put up over the summer, a couple of things were clear: they were not putting up similar numbers to David Cook, their numbers were pretty much identical, and that for the most part, the same people were buying products from both of them, so they were pretty much sharing a fan base. Given all of that, their debut numbers are not a surprise.

No. Everyone does not see these numbers as normal. In fact, a lot of people see these numbers as bogus. I’m sorry. There are SO MANY freaking variables between this season and last season and season 5, not to mention variables between release dates, how far in advance the single was promoted, whether the single was even promoted, whether it even was a first single, how many days are covered, whether you got it free if you purchased the album, whether it was released while the tour was in session and on and on and on.

There are so many intelligent, thoughtful observers of the music scene around here but rigorous statisticians, uh, lol, not so much! It’s just amazing to me that so many people are leaping to conclusions and making pronouncements on such limited, sketchy and flawed … yes, flawed data. How is it flawed? We’re not just comparing apples to oranges. We’re comparing apples, oranges, bananas, grapes, kiwis and mangos. Someone posted above that we should add a few asterisks. Lets get real, people. We need about a zillion asterisks to make sense of this data and even then I don’t know how valuable it would be.

We get numbers but we have no clear idea which entities reported them, what the time frame was, what sales were included or excluded and then we’re comparing them to other equally fuzzy numbers over different timeframes and with different sales promotions??? Ha. I mean, I realize this is what we do, i.e. we talk, we speculate, we blog, (hey, I do it too), but I guess sometimes when the hyperbole or pontifications reach a certain level I have to step back and take a reality check. This is one of those times.

That kind of excessive and unrealistic hyperbole is only being pushed by a small proportion of delusional fans and should be taken for what it is, and is not representative of the majority of Adam’s fans.

I never said that this think represented all of Adam’s fans, that’s why I used a term that they use to describe themselves.

BOTH FYE and TFM have outpeaked Kris’ single which has been on the radio for over two months now and is inside the top 40 on two formats.

How do you figure this? TFM put up first week numbers that were pretty close to LLWD ten day total. TFM 70% drop was bigger than any drop that LLWD has ever experienced, and now TFM has dropped off the face of the earth, despite still being ranked around 160 on the itunes chart. Meanwhile, FYE saw a debut number that ranks below the ten day totalk of LLWD and is only slightly more than LLWD three day total. Besides that, how do we know that any of these songs have hit their peak? Obviously the hope is that they will continue to sell as radio play increases. I think the 40% increase for LLWD this week is very telling. The more people hear the song, the bigger the pool of potential buyers.

Marketing 3-D reality: It is impossible that 30K of the 50,000 devoted, wired fans who bought Time For Miracles before the pixels were barely dry in its posting, said gee, no thanks, to Adam Lambert’s first official single.

Universal, rowenaaine, Buderschookie, and everyone else who pointed out this inarguable fact are completely right.

CindyM suggested a very likely place all those purcharsers went: Collectors Edition. They plunked down $24.95 and got a free FYE instant download, which may or may not have registered as a sale. And, yes, Sony or AO could have screwed that up, counting it as partial delivery of the online portion of the CE. Just like the bonus tracks will be.

Or these same fans bought the album, twice, on every possible outlet for every bonus track. And/or got lost in the 36 hour FUBAR of iTunes debut of FYE.

There will be no way to resolve the short week opener, the AO free FYE with the currently fabulous iTunes and Amazon numbers for FYE until next week it seems.

This seems to be a “tempest in a teapot”. Adam’s album presales are doing well based on the chart positions. I am a huge Adam fan but I bought the deluxe album and did not buy the single separately. I think the first week of album sales will define how well Kris and Adam compare to the David’s. I have total confidence in Adam and his fanbase. I am sure the Kris fans feel the same.

It looks like Kelly wont reach platinum in her album sales in the US for the second album in a row.

Kelly is performing on the AMAs… right before Thanksgiving shopping. Don’t count her out just yet… she’s not that far away from platinum.

“Carrie Underwood, Play On (318,000, debut, 318,000 total/63,000 digital, debut, 63,000 digital total)” — numbers from IDOL CHATTER

Just something to keep in mind when looking at I-tunes, Amazon, Rhapsody, et al rankings. Carrie has been #1 on I-tunes for quite some time. Her digital sales totaled 63,000 for her album. I will hazard a guess that most of Carrie’s sales were from Big Box Stores such as Target, Wal-mart, et al.

That kind of excessive and unrealistic hyperbole is only being pushed by a small proportion of delusional fans and should be taken for what it is, and is not representative of the majority of Adam’s fans.

but this has been the meme that has been picked up and fueled by the media, blogsites and the press… something touted or spoken long and loudly enough will begin to eventually thought of as the truth… the music industry is a big old game – perception = reality the majority of the time, so if the perceptions of adam have been skewered by a very small but vocal group of ott fans, to the point that the mainstream media, blogsites and the music media start to believe it and promulgate it across the net and the airwaves, there is no one but themselves to blame for others forming those ”unrealistic” expectations… and holding the person to them… jmho.

I’m not sure why people say this is an automatic download when you by the deluxe album. I didn’t get that deal when I pre-ordered off itunes (I did get that deal off AO though so perhaps there is some confusion there).

When I preordered the iTunes deluxe album it did give me an auto download of the single (so now I have a bunch of digital copies of FYE lol ). I believe that goes towards the album sales numbers rather than the single.

For those saying Crush was sold during the tour, you ‘re incorrect. Crush was premiered on Z100 on Aug. 1, and went to itunes on the 12th. It was never sung on tour.

I never said it was sung during the tour, just released during the tour. Also, I thought I remembered reading it was released in June. Sorry.

Once January starts, there will be a new crop of AI contenders and we’ll start the cycle all over again. I’m looking forward to see if there is another true breakout star there.

Might I suggest a country/crossover artist? Maybe a guy this time. Is it too late for Kris to change over?

In fact, Adam’s Season 8 favorites album was inside the top 100 albums the day that it was removed from itunes and had never fallen out for it’s entire run.

This just says to me that fans liked Idol Adam but are not so much in love with his post Idol music.

FYE the single is up to #25 on the song chart. I’m not sure why people say this is an automatic download when you by the deluxe album.

People say that because it is true. I had already purchased FYE and when I pre-ordered the deluxe album, it warned me that I had already purchased the single, and asked if I still wanted to proceed with the purchase, of course I said “yes”. Then it downloaded a second copy of FYE to my iTunes.

I agree that last week’s sales for Adam are disappointing. No matter the spin we put on it (branding, waiting for the album, or the screw-up on iTunes), the numbers suck. imo

Now, do I think Adam’s career is over? Of course not and I will be a fan for as long as he continues to create music I like.

First, congrats Carrie for another #1 album! Very good numbers. And her albums have longevity so this will probably be another good era for her.

Second, season 8 numbers.
Starting with Allison, yeah, we had low expectations. Still, those numbers suck. Jason Castro was also #4 and that was over a year ago and he did better with his single, released a year after being removed from AI.

Adam’s FYE? There’s no way to spin it. Those number are terrible. Yeah, it only had 5 days on itunes, but Kris’s LLWD had 3 days the first week, so that’s not the problem. People are pre-ordering the album and not buying the single? I’m sorry to disappoint, but a #10 album on itunes doesn’t sell that many units. 4k?5k?6k maybe. That’s it. I don’t think that would change things that much.

‘Why do expectations for Kris (winner) continue to be low and expectations for Adam (runner-up) continue to be highter? Adam sold 18,000 and Kris sold 14,000. Kris has done tons of radio promos and a few concerts.’ 

We can’t compare FYE’s 1st week sales to LLWD’s 4th or 5th week sales. It doesn’t make any sense. Everyone knows that the first week is a big week. No one has the single and that’s when fans buy it. It’s usually one of the best weeks in a single’s life. LLWD is now selling based on radio promo, weks after its release. FYE was just released, first week sales should have been better.

I decided to look back this blog to see how things worked last year. For those saying this is happening because RCA is not doing any radio promo for the single, I’d like to say that last year, Cook only started doing promo for the single 3 weeks after it was released. The single was released earlier, though, this leaves Adam’s single promo to coincide with the album promo.
Also, concerning pre-orders. Archie’s deluxe album pre-order went to #6 on itunes and the regular one #36. That’s obviously a lot better than Adam’s pre-orders are doing. Deluxe is #10 and the other isn’t even top 100.
I couldn’t find the number for Cook’s pre-order, but I’m sure it went to #2, I am not sure it made #1, can’t confirm it, but yeah, it did to #2. But it didn’t have two versions, that’s why I’d probably compare it to Archie’s. Plus, they’re both runner ups.

That kind of excessive and unrealistic hyperbole is only being pushed by a small proportion of delusional fans and should be taken for what it is, and is not representative of the majority of Adam’s fans.

I never said that this think represented all of Adam’s fans, that’s why I used a term that they use to describe themselves.

The term “glambert” refers to a larger segment of Adam’s fanbase than the small group of delusional fans who’s predictions for Adam’s sales are completely unrealistic and based in ignorance.

Meanwhile, FYE saw a debut number that ranks below the ten day totalk of LLWD and is only slightly more than LLWD three day total. Besides that, how do we know that any of these songs have hit their peak? Obviously the hope is that they will continue to sell as radio play increases. I think the 40% increase for LLWD this week is very telling. The more people hear the song, the bigger the pool of potential buyers.

Kris won AI and is expected to be more successful because of that. Therefore, it should be no surprise if he is.

‘What about the ‘Adam Storm’ ? Shouldn’t national exposure outweigh local radio interviews? Anyway, I don’t think it’s a fair compairson since LLWD has been out for a month.’ 

I t think the whole Adam Storm was a bunch of hooey made up by a now discredited “insider.” Most of the buzz Adam has gotten, has been organic, not directly set up by RCA. The stuff set up for him by RCA hasn’t been more than the list I saw for David Cook last year. So while yes there is talk about how Adam is the most hyped contestant EVER! I think that’s just bubble talk, by some fans and detractors alike and that last year there was plenty of stuff for the Davids that was just as comparable. I just think that unlike last year, Adam didn’t do as well as either David, so in terms of not living up to that, than yes, Adam isn’t living up to that in terms of sales.

Carrie’s numbers are great. She’s a star and will continue to shine.

Her new single:
75 Carrie Underwood ‘Change’  19,772 (lw 1) Total: 19,773 (NEW)

But you also said:

FYE’s numbers are very disappointing

His new single:
82 Adam Lambert ‘For Your Entertainment’  18,397 (NEW) Total: 18,397 (NEW)

Very close in sales. Carrie is an established artist. Adam is a brand new artist. For them to be so close in numbers looks good to me, and if her numbers are great, then I don’t think we should be very disappointed in Adam’s sales.

All 3 of the S8 Idols are just getting started. No promo yet for Adam’s single, but I think that RCA knows what they’re doing. I won’t start worrying about the single numbers until at least a week or so after the AMAs. That seems to be the first promo, (other than Ryan’s radio show), that will take place for FYE.

Allison’s single had a strange start, and hasn’t really had promo since being back out, has it? How would most people even know that it’s out?

Kris’s numbers have picked up now that the MV is out, so we should give people time to see the MV and see how that continues to impact his numbers.

It’s way too soon to declare anyone a sucess or failure yet.

ETA:
I haven’t bought any singles for years. (But did buy 2 of the 3 S8 singles.) I think that we need to see the album sales figures before we can really get a feel for how any of the S8 people are doing, because a lot of people may be choosing to just buy the album, which includes the single. That would be the norm for me, and is the norm for most of the people I know.

Marketing 3-D reality: It is impossible that the 50,000 devoted, wired fans who bought Time For Miracles before the pixels were barely dry in its posting, said gee, no thanks, to Adam Lambert’s first official single.

I don’t see what needs to be resolved, especially since many of those who have been buying from itunes are the same people who purchased the song last week.
As someone just pointed out, Carrie was on top of the itunes chart all of last week too, and ranked high at Amazon, all of that resulted in a whoooping 63,000 units sold out of more than 300,000 total units sold.

But, I think we are also losing sight of the main point, the debut sales for TFM (and its massive second week drop) as well as the sales of FYE and LLWD tell us one thing, these people just don’t have massive fan groups like previous idol winners did, it wasn’t just the Davids who started strong.

I see peeps are back to worrying and panicking…
Adams single was available in 3 different places and jumped up the charts this week, these numbers are not final…Sales for the album are much more important and it seems he is getting more radio spins now which is good…I honestly didnt expect the numbers to be so high given the situation…I did however expect his album sales to soar and THEY DID.
If the single didnt soar to number one on Itunes then blame it on RCA and their marketing team, not on Adam. First the album went on sale at Amazon (the regular version) then TFM on Itunes and Amazon, then FYE with the Deluxe versions on AO and then it hit Itunes…too many outlets available for sales to do really well in one place especially since this was all done within a VERY short time span…
It looks like the plan was not centered on Itunes, but rather trying to get sales on as many outlets as possible and until all of these figures are combined we dont really have a clear idea of how well the single sold imo.

How do you figure this? TFM put up first week numbers that were pretty close to LLWD ten day total.

How do I figure that? LLWD never made past #28 on itunes. TFM made it to #9 and FYE currently sits at #25. BOTH numbers are higher than #28…

TFM 70% drop was bigger than any drop that LLWD has ever experienced, and now TFM has dropped off the face of the earth, despite still being ranked around 160 on the itunes chart.

Who do you suppose is buying a song that’s not being played on radio from a movie that hasn’t been released? just wondering…. seems pretty unrealistic to think that people outside the Idolsphere are clamoring to buy this virtually unheard of song….

Meanwhile, FYE saw a debut number that ranks below the ten day totalk of LLWD and is only slightly more than LLWD three day total.

wouldn’t it be fairer to compare Kris’ three day total to Adam’s 5 day total and call it a draw? Of course it’s better for Kris to compare the 10 day total but let’s actually compare is second full week which was about 23K with radio interviews and an ad on itunes. Neither of which Adam had for his 5 days of sales on itunes.

Besides that, how do we know that any of these songs have hit their peak? Obviously the hope is that they will continue to sell as radio play increases. I think the 40% increase for LLWD this week is very telling. The more people hear the song, the bigger the pool of potential buyers.

We don’t know that any of them have “peaked” but we do know where they’ve been to date and LLWD is sitting at #70 after showing some increases over the last few days.

It stands to reason that any of these songs could break out and go gold or platinum so who knows. I just find it funny that there is so much hand wringing over a song that was given away with the Collector’s Edition (which btw, I believe supposedly sold 1000 copies within the first hour of being available).

much ado about nothing is a phrase that comes to mind.

Adam will be fine. lol His song has been out 2 weeks…. thats hardly enough time to predict his career is in trouble. His album pre-sales are doing really good. Its very clear to me that RCA is more focused on moving CD units than singles. When I pre-ordered Adam’s CD on Itunes last night I automatically got his single download. Those probably don’t count……… Let’s just enjoy the journey …….

Congrats to Carrie though. I honestly don’t understand her appeal but that girl is working it!!

I am an Adam Fan. I love his voice. I think he is one of the most talented, dynamic, creative singers to come around in a long time. Whether his Album or singles sell 20,000 copies or 2 million copies my opinion of him will not change. Him selling millions will only mean that other share my thoughts when it comes to his extraordinaire talent. ( because honestly sales numbers don’t take away the fact that Adam is talented and an exceptional singer) I really do hope he sells enough to be able to produce a second album. This seems to be want Adam wants at this time. I do sometimes get all caught up with the game of he will fail, he will succeed, but regardless, Adam will be a star. Maybe being a solo recording artist will not be his path (way too early to make an opinion on this one way or another though I lean toward YES HE WILL) but I will definitely go out on a limb and say he will be successful and it will be something that includes him singing and performing. Whether that means fronting a band, Singing on Broadway, or reinventing himself in a solo career, Adam will be around for years to come and that makes me happy. I have no qualms in saying that this is a statement I wholeheartedly believe in. This is his strength and the thing I think the media and other really see in him. Others I don’t believe have the various options open to them if they don’t succeed.

The numbers are what they are. Not great for anyone. If you bought Kris’ Itunes pass, you got the single for free too. I know because I did it. I bought the pass, wasn’t sure if LLWD the single was included so bought it. However, I was never charged for it and it didn’t count as a single because the next day I got the email saying the song was available for download as part of the pass. When I tried to download it, it said I already had. So the single I “purchased” but was never charged for, counted as part of my itunes pass. Sounds similar to the AO situation.
Also, (and I’m not saying that AO did report the first three days numbers) I’m just wondering what would be the purpose of not reporting them? They want him to get certified, don’t they? Is there a reason to not report them?

Kris won AI and is expected to be more successful because of that. Therefore, it should be no surprise if he is.

This makes no sense to me. AI is a tv show, I know it’s hard to think outside of the AI bubble, but neither Kris or Adam are operating in the confines of American Idol. Their future success has nothing to do with what happened on AI. For me, there is just no logical jump to someone winning a tv show to saying that they are going to or should be more successful. Kris success lays in his talent and marketability, the same is true with Adam. People can have whatever expectations they want, but that doesn’t have jack to do with whether or not stations will play the music, and whether or not people will buy it. Nobody outside of these small AI message boards care that these people competed on AI.

But, I think we are also losing sight of the main point, the debut sales for TFM (and its massive second week drop) as well as the sales of FYE and LLWD tell us one thing, these people just don’t have massive fan groups like previous idol winners did, it wasn’t just the Davids who started strong.

People have other fish to fry right now, loss of job, healthcare, etc.
The Davids were hugely popular, had more viewers watching the show (partially due to the writer’s strike) and their singles came out before the economy hit the fan. (yes on paper you can say it happened earlier, but average folks weren’t hit with it until Oct/Nov). I think the Davids album sales haven’t been what was expected, but I can attribute some of that to the economy. I would have suspected Cook to sell as well as Daughtry because he won. Even Daughtry isn’t getting “Daughtry” numbers anymore.

Actually the tour was still going on ,but Crush was never sung.

this is correct. crush was released in the middle of the tour, but never sung by david on the idol tour… always wondered why he wasn’t able to do that, but anyhoo…. the video for it was shot in georgia during a tour stop, just a few days after i had seen david and the s7 idols perform in charlotte on 8/17

… so…. david was still in the midst of recording his debut, releasing a single, touring, shooting a video and all the other promotional idol related stuff when crush released… he says he didn’t even know it had hit number one on itunes hours after it’s release until a fan informed him of it in a meet and greet that night at a tour stop… the song just exceeded all expectations and just consistently grew, and grew… it still sells, is rumored to be in consideration for use in an upcoming episode of ”glee”, is instantly recognizable as being a david a song… what more could any singer ask for their song, or their music….

FifthHouseSun
11/11/2009 at 12:47 pm
Marketing 3-D reality: It is impossible that the 50,000 devoted, wired fans who bought Time For Miracles before the pixels were barely dry in its posting, said gee, no thanks, to Adam Lambert’s first official single.

Universal, rowenaaine, Buderschookie, and everyone else who pointed out this inarguable fact are completely right.

CindyMpointed to a very likely place all those purcharsers went: Collectors Edition. They plunked down $24.95 and got a free FYE instant download, which may or may not have registered as a sale. Or they bought the album, twice, on every possible outlet for every bonus track. And/or got lost in the 36 hour FUBAR of iTunes debut of FYE.

There will be no way to resolve the short week opener, the AO free FYE with the currently fabulous iTunes and Amazon numbers for FYE until next week it seems.

FifthHouseSun you nailed it. That was my feeling but you articulated it beautifully. I also wonder if some of this confusion is purposeful on the part of RCA?? I am not worried about Adam!

Her new single:
75 Carrie Underwood ‘Change’  19,772 (lw 1) Total: 19,773 (NEW)

This is not Carrie’s new single. The girl doesn’t have a new single. The single is Cowboy Casanova.
Her album was released last week and it’s natural in teh first week certain tracks will sell enough that we get numbers. But they aren’t singles, just random album tracks.
These sales numbers for Carrie’s random songs are awesome.

yinyang
11/11/2009 at 12:56 pm
Carrie’s numbers are great. She’s a star and will continue to shine.

Her new single:
75 Carrie Underwood ‘Change’  19,772 (lw 1) Total: 19,773 (NEW)

But you also said:

FYE’s numbers are very disappointing

His new single:
82 Adam Lambert ‘For Your Entertainment’  18,397 (NEW) Total: 18,397 (NEW)

Very close in sales. Carrie is an established artist. Adam is a brand new artist. For them to be so close in numbers looks good to me, and if her numbers are great, then I don’t think we should be very disappointed in Adam’s sales.” Yinyang

WHAT? LOL That is just one of many Carrie singles that charted. People bought individual singles off the CD as well as the CD itself.
Am I missing something here? Change is the new single? I still thinks it’s ridiculous to compare any of Carrie’s charting singles at this point to FYE. How about Cowboy Casanova? That is Carries’ 1st single off the album. I’m not following the logic …

Also, (and I’m not saying that AO did report the first three days numbers) I’m just wondering what would be the purpose of not reporting them? They want him to get certified, don’t they? Is there a reason to not report them?

Ineptness? Who knows, maybe they did report them and the numbers are the numbers. Adam’s sells are pretty close to Carrie’s new single and she is a well known name. I think as someone said upthread, the days of large AI fandoms may have past and we should expect these kind of numbers for future idols as well.

Why wouldn’t RCA include all of the sales of FYE from Amazon, AO and itunes in the total? I can’t imagine why they would want to withhold any sales numbers.

And as for marketing, Adam does have something that I don’t think any of the idols have….over 200,000 followers on Twitter.

Mary102
11/11/2009 at 12:43 pm

I think Adam’s problem is that for some reason RCA seems to be pushing his promo towards things not about hs music.

This is definitely my sense too. They are trying to brand him as much more than just the music, which, imo, in the bigger scheme of things, is probably a smart strategy (decline of music sales and all). I have a feeling RCA has a different plan for him than for other artists, and that is part of what we’re seeing now.

ITA This is what I have been saying for a while now.

Her new single:
75 Carrie Underwood ‘Change’  19,772 (lw 1) Total: 19,773 (NEW)

That’s not a “new” single. It just became available for separate purchase, if you will. So people are buying singles in addition to buying her album. And her album, which has all 5 of those singles, also sold over 315K units. So Carrie sells albums and singles.

eta: And as for marketing, Adam does have something that I don’t think any of the idols have’ ¦.over 200,000 followers on Twitter.

Carrie doesn’t have a Twitter account. Her marketing is the gold standard, if you will.

Well, let’s hope that Adam’s Twitter followers will convert to Adam single and album buyers. Because clearly his 200K followers did not rush out to buy either his “faux” single or his “real” one, or we would not be having this type of discussion.

Carrie’s new single sold 63000. The other number isn’t a single release, I don’t think, just a random song from the album.

ETA: NVM, I guess you’re talking about “Play On”?

FifthHouseSun—you are the voice of reason, thank you!
I don’t want just the single, I want the whole album, and every bonus track available. I’m sure there are many more fans who feel the same as I do. In fact I’ve purchased three, one for my car, one for my house, and one for my tween daughter, because, and I quote,”Mom, we’re not sharing”, lol. I’m anxious to see Adam’s album sales. I’m betting it will do much better than his single.

I can’t understand why Kris fans aren’t rejoicing. His sales show a nice increase from last week. That’s a good sign.

WHAT? LOL That is just one of many Carrie singles that charted. People bought individual singles off the CD as well as the CD itself. Too funny!

ROTFL. Yep pick out one of the many songs that charted this week, one thats not a single and compare that to Adam’s REAL debut single. That will work! Completely ignore that her song that IS the lead single off her current album sold over 100,000 its first week. Yep very close to Adam’s LOL

And as for marketing, Adam does have something that I don’t think any of the idols have’ ¦.over 200,000 followers on Twitter.

Jordin has close to 400,000 followers. Its obviously doing wonders for her sales.

That’s not a ‘new’  single. It just became available for separate purchase, if you will. So people are buying singles in addition to buying her album. And her album, which has all 5 of those singles, also sold over 315K units. So Carrie sells albums and singles

Isn’t country the largest music market out there? I think it would be wise for Danny to go in that direction.

How do I figure that? LLWD never made past #28 on itunes. TFM made it to #9 and FYE currently sits at #25. BOTH numbers are higher than #28′ ¦

Where do I start with this? First of all you are talking about rankings and not actual sales, which doesn’t make a lot of sense, since the rankings are dependent on so many other factors, where as if someone is going to buy an album or single they will. FYE being at #25 for just a

day

doesn’t tell us how many units are being sold, and isn’t that the piont? If you need to compare, and I assumed your numbers about FYE peaking higher than LLWD were about real numbers, shouldn’t you use sales.

For example, you could compare the 15,000+ that LLWD had during it’s first three days out to the 18,000+ plus that FYE had during it’s 5 day release, or whatever it was, since it seems to me that it was available at other sites for longer than five days. That makes more sense than comparing rankings, since we have no clue what the rankings mean. For example, TFM spent 6 days in the top 100, yet it only sold 2000 more units than LLWD two weeks ago. The itunes rankings have more to do with how fast something is selling, not just how many units it has sold. Which is one of the reasons why I wouldn’t get to crazy about FYE current ranking, especially since it has been stalled in the same spot since yesterday afternoon.

Getting back to the numbers, exactly, how can you spin them in a way that doesn’t make it clear that just like they did over the summer with the studio tracks, Kris and Adam are sellng the same amount?

“And as for marketing, Adam does have something that I don’t think any of the idols have’ ¦.over 200,000 followers on Twitter.”

Jordin has 300K+ I think, and Archie has over 200K as well, if I’m not mistaken. Twitter is a great marketing tool to get information out as well as sell yourself to the fans. Good fun, too.

Twitter wasn’t around last year when the Season 7 idols came off their show, but Myspace was. Both Davids shot up to close to 200k there, and I know DC was barely ever even on there. No one could figure out why they weren’t using it more to send messages about the single when Light On came out. Social media is a great tool for all of these guys.

Well I, for one, am willing to sit back and look at the numbers four weeks out from the release for each-then compare. I think we will see a significant difference.

This just says to me that fans liked Idol Adam but are not so much in love with his post Idol music.

If fans aren’t interested in his post idol music then it must be shocking to see that his album is sitting at #11 on itunes with the preorder and #8 on amazon (with a green arrow indicating increased sales)…. who is buying this post idol music if it’s not the fans? confusing.

It will be fun to see the numbers come out for next week and see the same people fall silent who are so “worried” today. Seems we just played this game yesterday…..

Now.. the numbers aren’t amazing or even good compared to what the David’s did last year or even what he did right off idol but there ARE in factors at play here that some are purposefully ignoring in order to spin the meme of “adam’s in trouble” How many times can a career fall apart before it even has a chance to take off?

ROTFL. Yep pick out one of the many songs that charted this week, one thats not a single and compare that to Adam’s REAL debut single. That will work! Completely ignore that her song that IS the lead single off her current album sold over 100,000 its first week. Yep very close to Adam’s LOL

For those of us who don’t follow Carrie’s career, there is no way of knowing that wasn’t a single for her. So yes, you can laugh at us who didn’t know that, but hey, we are all learning. Perhaps these charts should come with an attached PDF on what the numbers mean. :)

Regardless, Adam and Kris’s numbers are similar, which I think someone said upthread, is more of an indication that the idol fanbase isn’t what it used to be.

I can’t understand why Kris fans aren’t rejoicing. His sales show a nice increase from last week. That’s a good sign.

huh?! I think most of us are. I think he’s getting nice numbers before his album release. The real test will be the album sales; I’m quite optimistic about them with the exposure he’s going to have that week

And as for marketing, Adam does have something that I don’t think any of the idols have’ ¦.over 200,000 followers on Twitter.

And apparently they’re as interested in his music as Jordin’s 400,000 followers.

“And as for marketing, Adam does have something that I don’t think any of the idols have’ ¦.over 200,000 followers on Twitter.”

DavidArchie has 270K twitter followers.

Airplay:
No. 11 ‘“ Kelly Clarkson (+5.4 million) ‘“ lw 12
No. 19 ‘“ Carrie Underwood (+2.3 million) ‘“ lw 19
No. 168 ‘“ Kris Allen (+1.5 million) ‘“ lw 210
No. 395 ‘“ Jordin Sparks (+0.3 million) ‘“ lw 432

THIS! Very exciting for Kris!!
8)

Well, let’s hope that Adam’s Twitter followers will convert to Adam single and album buyers. Because clearly his 200K followers did not rush out to buy either his ‘faux’  single or his ‘real’  one, or we would not be having this type of discussion.

Sorry I didn’t make myself clear, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. I have read way too many comments that there was no marketing for FYE. I checked…and Adam did send out a tweet to all of his followers (actually over 227,000) that the his single was available.

And apparently they’re as interested in his music as Jordin’s 400,000 followers.

lol…I had no clue she had this many followers. I just knew that Carrie didn’t have an account, and I think Daughtry has around 100,000. Obviously Twitter not a great sales tool.

Airplay:
No. 11 ‘“ Kelly Clarkson (+5.4 million) ‘“ lw 12
No. 19 ‘“ Carrie Underwood (+2.3 million) ‘“ lw 19
No. 168 ‘“ Kris Allen (+1.5 million) ‘“ lw 210No. 395 ‘“ Jordin Sparks (+0.3 million) ‘“ lw 432

THIS! Very exciting for Kris!!

Very good new for Kris! So since Adam isn’t on this list, does it mean he didn’t get any airplay last week?

The totals for LLWD is 98151. How long is that for-how many weeks has it been out? Officially without any astericks.

Her new single:
75 Carrie Underwood ‘Change’  19,772 (lw 1) Total: 19,773 (NEW)

edit: we don’t rip into people here

and I wanted to bring this up but didn’t because I thought it was petty, but now that you put it out there….. it is PATHETIC that Adam and Kris’s debut singles off of American Idol cannot outsell a RANDOM track on Carrie Underwood’s third album.

And as for marketing, Adam does have something that I don’t think any of the idols have’ ¦.over 200,000 followers on Twitter.

Jordin has close to 400,000 followers. Its obviously doing wonders for her sales.

More evidence that, especially for younger people, in this era of the convergence of all media what people want, what people are willing to pay for, etc., when it comes to media and entertainment and so on are all shifting in ways that nobody seems able to predict.

WHAT? LOL That is just one of many Carrie singles that charted. People bought individual singles off the CD as well as the CD itself. Too funny!

Well, obviously all I know about Carrie are the numbers that were posted here. I had no reason to not assume that “new” wasn’t her new single.

I’ll be interested in the album sales for all S8 people. The presales have looked good for at least one, maybe good? (I don’t know how to tell) for another, and not quite as good for the 3rd, but those numbers will be telling. And, perhaps, if some people are buying individual songs off of Carrie’s album instead of the album, we’ll see that happen with the S89 contestants as well. Lots of ways for them to sell their music.

I hope that they all get to stay in the music industry, and continue to make music.

I think Kris might have a chance at re-entering the Hot 100 with LLWD. I guess we’ll see. But usually you need like 20k to do it without radioplay. Kris has about 10 million AI and 15K in sales this week, will that be enough?

But once he re-enters I don’t really anticipate him falling off because the sales have been constant and the airplay has been increasing. Which will be nice to see.

I can’t understand why Kris fans aren’t rejoicing. His sales show a nice increase from last week. That’s a good sign.

We are happy, but I don’t think “rejoicing” is the word, since we have been saying for weeks that an increase in airplay would lead to an increase in sales.

I also think the excuse that people are waiting to buy the whole album fits every AI contestant this year, as well as the ones who released an album in the past. For some reason I think that excuse was called a spin a few weeks ago. I think people are waiting, and they waited in the past. The thing is that in the past, the hardcore fans would buy anything, and they would buy it four or five times. Times have changed, and neither Adam or Kris is in trouble, they just don’t have the hardcore fans that others had.

And, why are people so excited about Adam being ranked in the mid to low 20′s? It’s just been one day. Before that it was sitting comfortably in the low 70s. That’s nice, but it’s still not going to get his numbers to a level that previous contestants were at.

And from Perez Hilton saying that the song was in trouble. Actually, the itunes ranking was in the 70′s on Monday, but then Perez blogged that the song was in trouble, and just like magic, its itunes ranking went up

Who cares what Perez says? Do you think someone is going to buy a song if they don’t even like it??

Now maybe Perez drew attention to FYE, well good for him. But I doubt anyone would buy FYE if they didn’t like it.

That was the same thing people said about LO last year. That all the promo Cook was getting for this song (courtesy of RCA and AI) was the only reason LO sold as well as it did. Well, if peeps didn’t like LO, would they have purchased it? Sorry if off topic, but am trying to make a point.

How long has LLWD been out? Officially?

Well it looks like I missed all the drama here….perhaps it’s for the best.

LaurlG is correct. None of this drama makes sense to me. I refuse to even compare these guys with freaking Carrie what is that about? Why not compare them to Beyonce or Gaga. Oh, that’s right, they weren’t on Idol.

Nobody mentioned that AO also STREAMED THE SINGLE FYE 24/7 from day one, and it automatically recorded for me on my Ask and Record Toolbar, every single time I was on any page of the site’ ¦so in theory I really didn’t need to buy it., quality notwithstanding. I had about 475 copies of it in my stupid folder within a couple of days lol.

Do you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the ‘world’  was listening to Seacrest on a Friday morning 10/30 9 AM no less, and rushed to Adam Official to buy the thing? Since that’s the only place it was. I didn’t even know Seacrest had a radio show and it took me an hour to find it. My office does not permit internet during work and I have a life at night and downloading something difficult to find in itunes is not a number one priority.

Itunes availability began the next Tuesday and we know that it wasn’t even easy to locate there. FUBAR all week and didn’t sit stable until the following Monday of this week.

The damn thing was coming and going for days, disappearing into thin air. Jumping from position #42 to mia . And it was completely offline Monday night for 4 hours when they were swapping out his itunes site software to take down the single and put up the album promo. Then it stabilized and cruised to #1 in 12 hours. SRSLY wtf.

My dentist does $50,000 mouths and had an AI finale party for some clients, also fans. They love Adam Lambert. I cancelled my implant appointment when he lost just in case the guy wasn’t in the best mood lol.
I just called him and he had no idea there was a single he thought the album wasn’t coming out till Thanksgiving. He doesn’t play top 40 in the office he streams his ipod. He didn’t even know when 2012 was coming out for sure and had a vague understanding the single TFM would come out then. He just went and dl’d them both. And ordered the album.

The fact that you mistakenly attribute Perez’s blog to have pushed Adam to number one overnight on pop albums proves that people will buy his music. If that’s your theory. Which happens to be wrong because the album wasn’t up there until that same NIGHT anyway. It was a coincidence. And IF it was a plan by Lambert, good for him for figuring out how to add to his promotion consisting of ONE interview with Seacrest on a Friday morning and two tweets. Wtf. ALL of his media interviews said NOVEMBER 23rd. NOTHING about the single because they didnt announce the single dl until the day before. On his Twitter. Only.

YES raw numbers do most certainly lie. Because of GIGO. Nobody here has a clue what’s in the count or pipeline. Ever hear ‘figures don’t lie but liar’s can figure’ . It’s an old axiom.

Saying ‘the economy’s a little worse now’  ‘ ¦ya think? Are we forgetting the term economic meltdown? People don’t even have their homes anymore let alone a credit card.

If these numbers are rock solid and don’t improve, then we know that Season 8 voting actually WAS the sham that it was suspected to be IMO. 30 million votes. HRMPH. Just like Twitter, it was a bunch of kids spamming for the fun of it.

Why wouldn’t RCA include all of the sales of FYE from Amazon, AO and itunes in the total? I can’t imagine why they would want to withhold any sales numbers.

is there any evidence that they did? If and when you find it please let me know, though I doubt there is. Mj would have indicated that.

Regarding twitter followers, Cook just recently started seriously using twitter so his is around 72,000 and going up at about 500/day. Archie has 270,500 followers and his goes up 700-1000/day. Adam is going up at 1000-1200/day. (I have no idea why I have been keeping track of these 3 for 2 months). Also, twitter is so amazing that it now connects so many diverse, talented people. The highest selling ever living author (Paulo Coehlo (paulocoelho on twitter who has 182,000 people following him) (from Brazil who wrote “The Alchemist” which has sold 65million books) recently started following Archie and tweeted him that he was walking through the woods listening to Christmas from the Heart on his Ipod and thought it was great. Twitter matters.

For the third time, how long has LLWD been out?

wouldn’t it be fairer to compare Kris’ three day total to Adam’s 5 day total and call it a draw? Of course it’s better for Kris to compare the 10 day total but let’s actually compare is second full week which was about 23K with radio interviews and an ad on itunes. Neither of which Adam had for his 5 days of sales on itunes.

How can I compare Kris’ second week sales to Adam’s when I don’t have the numbers for FYE? I do have the numbers for TFM and it’s 70% drop. And exactly what are we comparing? I don’t throw around things like Kris is going to be a megastar and that LLWD is a hit, so for me, at this stage for both Kris and Adam, the comparison is the size of their fanbases, and however you want to do it, three days, five days, or TFM and FYE, or the sales of the studio recordings, the size of the fanbases are the same.

I was ready to rip into you but I see others did so I don’t need to do that, and I wanted to bring this up but didn’t because I thought it was petty, but now that you put it out there’ ¦.. it is PATHETIC that Adam and Kris’s debut singles off of American Idol cannot outsell a RANDOM track on Carrie Underwood’s third album.

Carrie has 4 years under her belt, 4 Grammys, and 5 CMAs. Comparing her numbers to Adam and Kris’ numbers are ludicrous. She’s an established artist, and Adam and Kris are just starting out. Give them a chance, sheesh.

I can’t understand why Kris fans aren’t rejoicing. His sales show a nice increase from last week. That’s a good sign.

Well I’m rejoicing. I mean they’re not great numbers, but they’re an increase from the stabilized numbers, so it means that he’s getting new buys and that the radio play and all the radio promotion, the video, seems to be paying off with some solid, if not spectacular, sales.

I think this bespeaks to the patience that some have been counseling for LLWD, myself included. Therefore I have the same patience for FYE as well. If others didn’t do the one, but now want the other, I can see where the disconnect comes in. But I’m not one of those people, so there you go. I also was honestly disappointed with Kris’s numbers, I mean, I’m glad they’re stabilising and doing better, but still..and I honsetly think Adam’s numbers suck ass, so of course I want his numbers to do better.

Basically I think Carrie fans are the ones that really have cause to celebrate at this point. Congrats to Carrie and her fans.

If these numbers are rock solid and don’t improve, then we know that Season 8 voting actually WAS the sham that it was suspected to be IMO. 30 million votes. HRMPH. Just like Twitter, it was a bunch of kids spamming for the fun of it.

That seems a bit harsh – but the season was something of a sham when you think of all the talent that was left behind in the semi-finals and the ridculous thing known as the Wild Card Round. I do think of the finalists that we ultimately had Kris, Adam and Allison were the most talented by a mile. This season had the possibility of being as amazing as Season 5 until the producers screwed it up.

That being said, if the numbers for Kris and Adam remain steady, with a slight improvement for Allison, I do think that all 3 of them have the potential to do well. I don’t think they will put up Kelly, Carrie or Daughtry type #s but I doubt anyone ever will.

For the third time, how long has LLWD been out?

Hey, if you can get that answer, can you find out for me how TFM did this week, and also, didn’t Adam get any airplay this week, and if he did, why isn’t he on the chart? Were there too few spins to warrent a bleep on the radar?

If these numbers are rock solid and don’t improve, then we know that Season 8 voting actually WAS the sham that it was suspected to be IMO. 30 million votes. HRMPH. Just like Twitter, it was a bunch of kids spamming for the fun of it.

Uh … Don’t we know already that AI voting has *always* been this kind of sham? … Seriously. Does anybody really believe that even as many as 1 million people ever actually *voted* following any episode of any season???

All you need to generate a million votes is 5000 people voting 200 times apiece. All you need for 10 million votes is 50,000 people doing the same. There’s a long long distance between 50,000 people and a million. At the very most, only some hundreds of thousands of people — total — have ever voted for the top two Idol finalists combined, I’m sure of it.

For the third time, how long has LLWD been out?

According to ITunes, it was released on Sept. 25, 2009.

Last year, when Cook came out with 109K as LO’s first week sales, Word Nerds turned into hand-wringing, teeth-gnashing loonies since it didn’t measure up to Crush’s first week sales.

And now, the same kind of dynamic is brewing here for S8…it’s funny now that we all thought the sky fell when he barely broke 100K. LOL

Perspective. I’m so glad that I wasn’t all that invested in this season.

The fact that you mistakenly attribute Perez’s blog to have pushed Adam to number one overnight on pop albums proves that people will buy his music. If that’s your theory. Which happens to be wrong because the album wasn’t up there until that same NIGHT anyway. It was a coincidence. And IF it was a plan by Lambert, good for him for figuring out how to add to his promotion consisting of ONE interview with Seacrest on a Friday morning and two tweets. Wtf. ALL of his media interviews said NOVEMBER 23rd. NOTHING about the single because they didnt announce the single dl until the day before. On his Twitter. Only.

How do you know it’s a coincidence? Of course people will buy Adam’s music, nobody said they wouldn’t. I don’t think that’s the point of any of this. What we are saying that neither Kris or Adam are seeing the debut sales numbers that previous AI alums saw. There is no arguing with that point. Just as it is a fact that FYE’s rank on itunes only started to improve after Perez made his post. I never said that Adam was a part of some plan, even though he did see how his tweet was inappropriate. I’m sure that the rise in the ranking was based on a few things, but yes, one of those was Perez inciting fans who were afraid that Adam wasn’t going to do well.

I don’t know what the numbers will look like next week, but nobody elese does either.

Nobody mentioned that AO also STREAMED THE SINGLE FYE 24/7 from day one, and it automatically recorded for me on my Ask and Record Toolbar, every single time I was on any page of the site’ ¦so in theory I really didn’t need to buy it., quality notwithstanding. I had about 475 copies of it in my stupid folder within a couple of days lol.

And LO was streaming last year before it went on sale, it was streaming on his official site and Clear Channel days before it went up for sale. Ah well. But like I said maybe the comparisons should end since the economy sucks.

I can understand if casual readers who don’t follow Carrie have no clue about her current single. But there are 5 Carrie songs listed above that charted. Why not single out the one with the highest total? The one with the number closest to Adam’s was singled out.

Why wouldn’t RCA include all of the sales of FYE from Amazon, AO and itunes in the total? I can’t imagine why they would want to withhold any sales numbers.

is there any evidence that they did? If and when you find it please let me know, though I doubt there is. Mj would have indicated that.

Sorry…was not able to edit my original post. I was responding to posters that were commenting that they weren’t sure if all of the sales numbers were included. I shouldn’t have responded with a question as I feel pretty certain that all sales numbers would be released.

didn’t Adam get any airplay this week, and if he did, why isn’t he on the chart? Were there too few spins to warrent a bleep on the radar?

The person who leaks the BDS spincrease numbers does not leak all 1000 songs on the chart. He picks the 50 or so values he finds interesting. He didn’t leak Adam’s numbers this week.

(BDS is Nielsen’s version of Mediabase and it used by Billboard for its charts).

Hey, if you can get that answer, can you find out for me how TFM did this week

We are waiting on Brian.

alaadam
11/11/2009 at 1:28 pm
How long has LLWD been out? Officially?

I think September 30.

According to ITunes, it was released on Sept. 25, 2009.

Thanks. So is this a fact: LLWD 98,151 for six weeks of sales? No astericks, etc.

And LO was streaming last year before it went on sale, it was streaming on his official site and Clear Channel days before it went up for sale. Ah well. But like I said maybe the comparisons should end since the economy sucks.

Same argument can be made for LLWD – it was streaming on KAO and on clear channel station from the morning it was premiered on Z100.

Personally, I’m sick of the comparisons, but sometimes you get so wrapped in it without realizing it.

Jordin Sparks – Jordin Sparks 119,119 (NEW) Total: 119K (NEW)

22 Jordin Sparks ‘Tattoo’  33,764 (NEW) Total: 33,780 (NEW) 10/13/07

8 Jordin Sparks -Tattoo- 77,247 (55%; lw 49,845) Total: 372,198 (12)

By the time Jordin’s album dropped, her lead off single had sold over 372K downloads. Jordin debuted at #10. Tattoo got great radio play and clearly the single sold and continues to sell. Her debut album did sell platinum – it took over a year to do so. Maybe Kris and Adam can follow her model, if you will.

Jordin Sparks ‘“ Jordin Sparks 119,119 (NEW) Total: 119K (NEW)

22 Jordin Sparks ‘Tattoo’  33,764 (NEW) Total: 33,780 (NEW) 10/13/07

8 Jordin Sparks -Tattoo- 77,247 (55%; lw 49,845) Total: 372,198 (12)

By the time Jordin’s album dropped, her lead of single had sold over 372K downloads. Jordin debuted at #10. Tattoo got great radio play and clearly the single sold and continues to sell. Her debut album did sell platinum ‘“ it took over a year to do so. Maybe Kris and Adam can follow her model, if you will.

I always said that Jordin was the first AI contestant who’s numbers were more about people liking the song, than supporting her because she was on AI. I think her debut album’s sales indicated this, since even the sales of the album coincided with her actual airplay.

I think that Kris and Adam will see similar sales. I hope that both do a better job than Jordin in developing a musical identity, so that people will support their albums, and not just their singles, but I actually think this is a better path to success than coasting on AI fame. While Jordin didn’t have the debut numbers of the Davids, she does have something that they both want, radio credibility. PDs don’t care how many albums she sales, they see her as a radio hit maker and top 40 mainstay, so they are going to play her music.

babybelle32
11/11/2009 at 1:34 pm
I don’t throw around things like Kris is going to be a megastar and that LLWD is a hit, so for me, at this stage for both Kris and Adam, the comparison is the size of their fanbases, and however you want to do it, three days, five days, or TFM and FYE, or the sales of the studio recordings, the size of the fanbases are the same.

We shall see, won’t we?

I find Kris and Jordin to be very similar, in some ways. They are more of the quiet Idol winners. So I hope Kris has Jordin’s type of longevity and success. The media ripped into her for her lackluster sales — as the Idol winner. So if you’re just comparing Idol winners, well, Kris fans should be thankful there was a Jordin Sparks. Heh.

Adam’s sales numbers are shockingly low. OTOH maybe it’s not such a shock considering the way RCA handled this.

RCA seems to view Adam as an established artist as opposed to a new artist. The immediate add date for radio gave that away. That’s usually something reserved for Britney or Gaga, people who have a proven track record who radio is likely to pick up right away. Obviously radio doesn’t view Adam that way though since he isn’t getting the adds.

RCA gave the single no promo and released it late and in a confused fashion. Like I said yesterday they are damn lucky that Adam generates hype and has a enough of a fan base that his album will probably still sell okay without a hit single driving it.

I wish they would do some radio promo but they obviously think Adam is above all that.

But there are 5 Carrie songs listed above that charted. Why not single out the one with the highest total? The one with the number closest to Adam’s was singled out.

I picked the one that I saw that said “new”, and didn’t even notice that there were lower numbers with Carrie’s name on it, too. I guess you could say that I didn’t read her numbers carefully, and that I don’t pay any attention to Carrie in general. :-)

Obviously, I don’t follow the numbers, and usually just go for the bigger picture, rather than a snapshot in time. I know with my own business, it’s routine for things to swing up and down from week to week, and what really matters is the bigger picture, with the good weeks balancing out the lesser weeks. I assume that the same holds true in the music industry.

The person who leaks the BDS spincrease numbers does not leak all 1000 songs on the chart. He picks the 50 or so values he finds interesting. He didn’t leak Adam’s numbers this week.

(BDS is Nielsen’s version of Mediabase and it used by Billboard for its charts).

OK thanks. So I guess the BDS guy isn’t an Adam fan. :) Is he the same source for the download numbers? If so, maybe he can find out of the first two days of sales were included. I suspect they were, but it would be nice to get rid of any lingering questions.

One day, it would be nice to know if the singles from Kris’s ITUNES pass and if the singles for Adam’s delux edition album count toward their single sales.

This just says to me that fans liked Idol Adam but are not so much in love with his post Idol music

Uh oh, hope not…..because I think a lot of people felt that way about Taylor Hicks too. They liked the Idol Taylor more than the post-Idol Taylor music….and, well, you all know how that turned out.

I’m sure that the rise in the ranking was based on a few things, but yes, one of those was Perez inciting fans who were afraid that Adam wasn’t going to do well.

I’m thinking it has more to do with the fact that Adam’s album went for presale and fans (outside the interenet world) found out his single was even released. That whole AO, Amazon, i-Tunes frozen period was a mess.

By the time Jordin’s album dropped, her lead off single had sold over 372K downloads. Jordin debuted at #10. Tattoo got great radio play and clearly the single sold and continues to sell.

However, digital single sales don’t produce much revenue, as per lots of articles I’ve read over the past few years, such as this one:

http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2009/10/record-labels-are-losing-power-to-fans-artists282.html

So I don’t know if anybody’s really crazy about an artist just selling single after single and nothing else. That’s Jordin’s state, currently, since she hasn’t shown she can sell tour tickets, either.

“Sales of digital music have not come close to replacing the revenue lost from the decline of physical sales. Overcoming this requires a significant shift in label expenditures, and revenue sources.”

True, hypertwink. It’s much more fun to be following these numbers when you’re not invested in the season.

A couple of things:

(1) The releases of the singles for the AI8′ers have been so weird that I’m also wondering if they deliberately made them weird to try to subvert attempts to compare their initial sales to past Idols or to other current artists. In the end, the numbers are what they are, and a few months out, we’ll have a better sense as to who has done what. I tend to agree that the stats to date indicate that these guys are starting with a smaller hard core fanbase than have many other top Idol contestants. But, as Jordin demonstrates, you can still sell singles and get a platinum record coming off of Idol with a smaller fanbase.

(2) While I do think that the economy and the state of the music market should be taken into account in evaluating record sales—meaning that Carrie’s 318K is even more awesome than the raw numbers indicate—all of the stats indicate that people are continuing to buy plenty of digital singles. So, I don’t really think that the economy explains what’s happening with the AI8′ers—the same economic conditions affect all of the other musicians out there, too, yet digital sales are still strong.

(3) I can’t imagine that straight-up singles sales at AO.com aren’t being reported. Cuz that would be wildly stupid and inconsistent with past practices for Sony websites. While the pre-order sales at itunes will register next week as singles sales because of how they are set up, which at least in part explains the rise in FYE’s top songs ranking (as I understand it), it may be that album sales on AO.com are not counting as song sales if you paid the full amount for the CD now. [Ultimately, the pre-order "sales" of the single on itunes will be removed from the single's totals when the album downloads, and AL will instead get credit for album sales.]

(4) I’ve been enjoying spending time in that little numbery crack den that got opened up after the quickcuts were eliminated. People have made lots of comments about DC’s airplay, in particular on CHR, and asserting that he is only an AC artist. Yet he has been the #49 artist on CHR this year, and #8 for the year on HAC, in addition to being #8 on Mainstream AC. And that’s with all of Magic Rainbow’s CHR charting weeks and about half of Light On’s CHR charting weeks being in 2008. DC is the 68th most played artist on all formats in 2009, and that’s with 19 country artists ahead of him and 12 classic rock artists getting largely or entirely recurrent play ahead of him.

I find Kris and Jordin to be very similar, in some ways. They are more of the quiet Idol winners. So I hope Kris has Jordin’s type of longevity and success. The media ripped into her for her lackluster sales ‘” as the Idol winner. So if you’re just comparing Idol winners, well, Kris fans should be thankful there was a Jordin Sparks. Heh.

This!!!! I’ve always seen significant similarity between Kris and Jordin and it was one o fthe reasons I was happy that Kris was signed with Jive because I felt they would be patient with his development as much as they were with Jordin. So far I feel like this is what seems to be happening and I hope it continues.

We shall see, won’t we?

LOL, It’s funny how important this is to some Adam fans. It’s like the focus isn’t even on supporting him or his music, but in proving that he has the biggest base. I remember more than one reporter commenting during the tour that the loud screams during Adam’s set and when his picture was shown seemed to be about making people believe that the wrong person won, and not even about people actually enjoying the music that they were hearing. I can’t help but wonder how is this fun? And what does one person buying two or more copies of a digital song or album prove?

We’ll see, but for me, that’s never been the focus. I don’t need to have my feelings for Kris’ music validated, and I’m fine with how the season ended, even though if Kris was the runner up, I’m pretty sure that I still woudn’t be angry about it six months later.
Besides, I’m more interested in Kris connecting with those outside of the idoldome, that’s how he will achieve credibility in the industry, as well as establish a long career.

I’m obviously not a follower of this stuff usually, (which helps explain my misstep earlier), but really don’t understand the focus on a single week of sales. They all roll out differently, have strange releases, (up on ITunes one day, gone for a while, then quietly put back up, in Allison’s case, released on various sites on different days in Adam’s case, etc.), and not everyone fanatically reads these sites to know that they’re even out there.

Kris has been getting radio spins for a while, just put the MV out, and has been doing some promo gigs, but still has a lot of promo stuff coming up, so let’s give him a chance to do all that, and see where things end up.

Allison hasn’t done any promo stuff, has she? If so, I missed it, and I do check in with this site from time to time. Most potential buyers of her single probably don’t read the blogs and look for information on her, though, so if I missed her, there is no way the even more casual listener would have caught it. Let’s give her a chance to do some PR work.

Adam has the AMAs coming up, followed by at least a few other promo opportunities, like GMA, and Letterman. Until he starts the promo work, I’m not sure what these numbers mean.

We won’t know how any of the S8 people will really do until enough time has passed to let the public find out that the music is out there to purchase, and, since most people don’t drop what they’re doing and rush to buy something, we have to give people a chance to get around to making the purchase as well.

Brian’s numbers are up! TFM did 9,000.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/index

Thanks undercooked. So now we know, TFM has sold 68,000, LLWD has sold 98,000 and FYE has sold 18,000.

Can anyone fill in the blanks:
TFM 68,000 (3 weeks)
FYE 18, 000 (1 week)
LLWD 98,000 (6 weeks)

Are we in agreement?

By the way, no numbers for Blake? I suspect his numbers are on the dance charts.

LOL, It’s funny how important this is to some Adam fans. It’s like the focus isn’t even on supporting him or his music, but in proving that he has the biggest base.

We’ll see, but for me, that’s never been the focus.

LOL. Despite your saying that the sizes of Kris’s and Adam’s fanbases have never been your focus, several of your posts keep reiterating your conclusion that they are, in fact, the same.

I think you missed my point. A lot of the numbers that have been thrown around in the past few days are incomplete and flawed and, consequently, any conclusions drawn from those numbers are similarly incomplete and flawed. These two guys are releasing albums within a week of each other, both before the Christmas holidays. Let’s see how they sell. Then let’s draw some conclusions.

Oh, and I’m pretty sure the screams for Adam during the tour were from feelings of real excitement, I only bought one download of fye and I don’t need my feelings for Adam’s music validated either, in case you were wondering.

After reading IDOL Chatter, Brian is concluding that FYE downloads are for less than a week of sales. I don’t have a log in for IDOL Chatter, but we all know it’s coming. :) What happened to the first two days of sales on AO and Amazon. In regards to the AO site, it might be an issue like Kris had/has with the ITUNES pass. Do those singles count toward their opening numbers? Also, Amazon, which I know won’t be huge, but are those numbers included?

FYE sales are laughable. They are EPIC. Compare :

82 Adam Lambert ‘For Your Entertainment’  18,397 (NEW) Total: 18,397 (NEW)

162 Allison Iraheta ‘Friday, I’ll Be Over U’  9073 (NEW; lw 60) Total: 9,822

One has huge promotion, thousands spent. On another hand, Ali has none of it. The difference in sales are less than 10 000. That is the return Adam has generated. It is pathetic.

Have to disagree, k0ka. The promotion dollars for Adam have been spent on his album, not his single. I’m looking forward to those numbers moreso than for a single that has had very little airplay to date.

I don’t understand the comments about the respective size of the “base”. It is CRYSTAL CLEAR that Kris WON, By a landslide even. So of course he has the biggest base. How can this even be a question?

One has huge promotion, thousands spent. On another hand, Ali has none of it. The difference in sales are less than 10 000. That is the return Adam has generated. It is pathetic.

Besides one radio inteview, what promotion has there been for FYE? Kris, by far, has had the most promotion for his single. He also won and has had more TV appearances.

I’m glad Allison sold some. I think once she gets promotion her singles will take off. :)

One has huge promotion, thousands spent. On another hand, Ali has none of it. The difference in sales are less than 10 000. That is the return Adam has generated. It is pathetic.

And this is the return Kris is getting:103 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  14,754 with tons of promotion, etc.

Shall we all laugh together?

Amazon, itunes, Wal-Mart (for singles that it has), and (typically) major-label artists’ sites are all included in the Soundscan digital downloads sales numbers. Basically, as long as it is a registered Soundscan seller, sales will be counted. Hence, for records, you now have Soundscan covering all sorts of “alternative” sales sources, including department stores, etc. In fact, Starbucks is a pretty big seller.

As I understand it, Soundscan pretty much covers digital download sales—I’ve seen nothing indicating that there are digital download sellers that don’t count, and I know that each of the four items that I note above are Soundscan sellers. It is a known fact that there are portions of the album sales market not covered by Soundscan—last I saw was around 10% of the market?

Sigh! Came here too late and missed all kerfuffle and fun, anyone knows where Kirsten’s comment might have been reposted? Anyway, while not counting myself as a fan of Adam Lambert (though I should say that I like him), I would agree with those who say this week number is screwy, and I would be inclined to dismiss this week number and not place too much significance on it or take it as any kind of indication of Adam popularity. I would have expected this week number to be a bit better than TfM, so the lowish number is likely to be an anomaly and the explanations proffered so far are probably correct (the mess-up on iTunes, song sold on AO, etc.). I do think however the 18K looks to be the number might be expected by looking at its iTunes chart position, so AO sales may not be included in it or only a small number were sold there.

So, ignoring FYE, I think you can take the sales of TfM as a good indication of the hard-core fanbase, the kind who would buy anything from an artist. A lot of David Cook’s fans didn’t like Light On when it was first released (I remember there were a lot of complaints and fans were comparing it unfavourably with Declaration), and there weren’t a lot of airplay when the song became available on iTunes (Crush had a lot more airplay and much greater audience impressions I think), so the great majority of those who bought the songs were David Cook’s hardcore fans. Since Light On sold ~100K first week and TfM ~50K, I think we can make the assumption that Adam has around half the number of fans from AI. From this I would extrapolated that Adam would sell 100-140K for the first week of his album. Adam however is likely to gain a lot more non-AI fans, so I do expect his album to go platinum, and he is also likely to do much better internationally than David Cook (therefore will easily out-sell David Cook in world-wide sales). I don’t really think Adam’s fan has much to worry about.

I don’t think Brian knows where the numbers are from. I think he’s just basing this on the song not being up on itunes for a full week.

LOL. Despite your saying that the sizes of Kris’s and Adam’s fanbases have never been your focus, several of your posts keep reiterating your conclusion that they are, in fact, the same.

This is the point of several of my posts, because they are the reason why some of Adam’s fans are upset about these numbers. This has been going on for eight seasons, the fans of the second place finisher, and yes even the fans of the winners, always act like these debut weeks are some type of a contest, and that the numbers will indicate who the “real” winner is. It’s beyond stupid, and just one of the reasons why these debut numbers are meaningless. They don’t have anything to do with people actually supporting the song, nor do they indicate how many people will stick with an artist, beyond this honeymoon period.

People keep harping on the flawed numbers, as you say, but after watching hardcore fans for 8 seasons, we all know how this works. The song not being available on itunes was not going to stop people from buying it. Most hardcore fans are going to be in a hurry to buy a song when it first comes out, which is why both Kris and Adam flew up the itunes chart on the day that their singles were released. Flaws or not, these numbers show that neither Kris or Adam have the same support as previous AI alums. On another note, I will say that I’m happy that Jive released Kris’ single early, so that he won’t just be dependent on AI fans when his album comes out. I do believe that’s the point, reaching out to a mass audience, not trying to outsell someone who was on a reality show with him, or trying to compare fan sizes.

By the way, no numbers for Blake?

I hope he sells. I quite liked the album, better than ADD, I think. I love Sad Song remixed, and I’m waiting for Heartbreak on Vinyl to be remixed as well.

From Idol Chatter: People already have seriously overestimated Adam’s popularity once — is it possible they’re doing it again?

Interesting.

Besides one radio inteview, what promotion has there been for FYE?

But isn’t the point of Adam being the best Idol evah-cum-international star of the millenium is that he’s a walking, talking advertisement for Brand Lambert. Isn’t he supposed to be this awesome talent that will make straight guys turn gay (or probably just a little bi-curious)? So whether or not some sales are missing and he only had a few days to sell, why the heck is his first real single clocking in at only a 18K?

LOL. Despite your saying that the sizes of Kris’s and Adam’s fanbases have never been your focus, several of your posts keep reiterating your conclusion that they are, in fact, the same.

Please don’t question the motives of your fellow posters. DIAL IT BACK please.

FYE sales are laughable. They are EPIC. Compare :

82 Adam Lambert ‘For Your Entertainment’  18,397 (NEW) Total: 18,397 (NEW)

162 Allison Iraheta ‘Friday, I’ll Be Over U’  9073 (NEW; lw 60) Total: 9,822

One has huge promotion, thousands spent. On another hand, Ali has none of it. The difference in sales are less than 10 000. That is the return Adam has generated. It is pathetic.

What promo did you see for Adam’s single? just wondering because I haven’t seen where these “thousands” of dollars have been spent.

I did see an ad for Ali’s single on itunes… her single has been released almost a full month before her album drops, whereas Adam’s album is less than two week away. Allison got a photoshoot and a nice album cover for her single right out of the gate (something that even kris didn’t get).

Again, I’ll be laughing when the numbers keep coming in week after week…… these celebrations at Adam’s “failure” will be shortlived, they always are.

For TfM to sell as much as it did in just 24 hours, tells me something. Most of Adam fans knew that wasn’t his debut single and knew it was for the soundtrack of 2012. Many (fans) really did not like TfM, as they thought it was a dated, cheesey number, not representative of what they thought Adam would be putting out. Thus, many didn’t download it. Obviously, Sony only wanted to promote TfM for a short time for the movie and the intent was not to market it for single sales.

Now on to FYE. More Adam fans seem to like that much better than TfM. It would be very logical to think more Adam fans would have downloaded FYE than TfM. Since the numbers reported indicated that TfM sold almost three times as much as FYE, there is something that is wonky. Whatever the reasons 1) virtually no promotion, 2) AO album sales w/free download of FYE not counted, 3) major screw-up with iTunes when FYE was supposedly available for download…

I’m not worried about Adam’s numbers. His album pre-sale at Amazon remains steady and impressive. His pre-sale album sales at iTunes is fine. All this with just a tweet from Adam and no other promotion.

The industry continues to love Adam and has high regard for his talent. As I’ve said, I’m not worried about Adam. He has surprised us in the past, and he will continue to surprise us.

Trina
11/11/2009 at 12:45 pm

That kind of excessive and unrealistic hyperbole is only being pushed by a small proportion of delusional fans and should be taken for what it is, and is not representative of the majority of Adam’s fans.

The official Google ads for the album that I’m seeing around the net that come from RCA/19 are advertising his album as ‘the most anticipated album of the year’ . A small proportion of fans aren’t the only ones throwing around hyperbole.

^Maybe RCA/19 already knows what his pre-order sales numbers are and they are feeling really good?

alaadam
11/11/2009 at 2:50 pm
One has huge promotion, thousands spent. On another hand, Ali has none of it. The difference in sales are less than 10 000. That is the return Adam has generated. It is pathetic.

And this is the return Kris is getting:103 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  14,754 with tons of promotion, etc.

Shall we all laugh together?

Kris sales are horrible. But we know that for weeks. Adam horrible sales are news this week.

Wow, Carrie just keeps on trucking, doesn’t she? Hard to believe she’s already on her 4th album. Then again, maybe I’m just used to artists that take 4-5 years to put out new material…

Nice to see the Glee version of “Defying Gravity” on the list, although I’m still bummed that it’s not a 6-minute epic track a la the original Broadway version.

Kris’s LLWD video is number 9 on Itunes pop Videos!

I don’t understand the comments about the respective size of the ‘base’ . It is CRYSTAL CLEAR that Kris WON, By a landslide even. So of course he has the biggest base. How can this even be a question?

Yes, I am aware that Kris won. However, a landslide? Total votes have never been posted as far as I know. Can you provide a link to the stats that show this? Number of votes certainly doesn’t equal number of fans.

One has huge promotion, thousands spent. On another hand, Ali has none of it. The difference in sales are less than 10 000. That is the return Adam has generated. It is pathetic.

And this is the return Kris is getting:103 Kris Allen ‘Live Like We’re Dying’  14,754 with tons of promotion, etc.

Shall we all laugh together?

Kris sales are horrible. But we know that for weeks. Adam horrible sales are news this week.

Still don’t get why we are laughing at any of them.

I just noticed that iTunes cut the price on FYE to $0.99. That will have a detrimental impact on revenue, but it could be a smart strategy to drive some short-term volume and keep the single visible in the iTunes store until airplay starts to kick-in. Anyone know when the price change took effect? Was it in play during this past sales week (the 18,000 units reported today), or is this a recent tactic? I just haven’t been paying that close attention to the pricing strategies this year.

adamisthemanfan
11/11/2009 at 12:58 pm

If the single didnt soar to number one on Itunes then blame it on RCA and their marketing team, not on Adam. First the album went on sale at Amazon (the regular version) then TFM on Itunes and Amazon, then FYE with the Deluxe versions on AO and then it hit Itunes’ ¦too many outlets available for sales to do really well in one place especially since this was all done within a VERY short time span’ ¦
It looks like the plan was not centered on Itunes, but rather trying to get sales on as many outlets as possible and until all of these figures are combined we dont really have a clear idea of how well the single sold imo.

^This is how I see it. At the end of the day when the Album figures are released. Adam will be ahead.

Hard to believe she’s already on her 4th album.

Play On is actually her 3rd album

I’m not worried about Adam’s numbers. His album pre-sale at Amazon remains steady and impressive. His pre-sale album sales at iTunes is fine. All this with just a tweet from Adam and no other promotion.

The industry continues to love Adam and has high regard for his talent. As I’ve said, I’m not worried about Adam. He has surprised us in the past, and he will continue to surprise us.

THIS ^^^^

Anyone know when the price change took effect? Was it in play during this past sales week (the 18,000 units reported today), or is this a recent tactic?

I’m not sure when it kicked in, but we discussed the price cut on the Adam Pre-Order thread starting on Monday. So, the price change pre-dates its current surge (the surge is more likely do to the banner ads and people pre-ordering).

Amazon had a price cut on FYE last week (down to 99 cents), so perhaps this was to match that?

I just noticed that iTunes cut the price on FYE to $0.99

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Carrie’s sales, while very good, are 200K less than what she sold opening week with CR and 100K less than what she sold with SH. Keeping in mind she she has the #1 song on country radio at the moment and is the reigning ETOY, female vocalist of the year and basically the biggest female country artist.around.

Considering it’s the beginning of holiday shopping season if she can’t break 400K that doesn’t give much hope to the people getting ready to release albums IMO.

Carrie’s sales, while very good, are 200K less than what she sold opening week with CR and 100K less than what she sold with SH.

“Some Hearts” debuted with 314,549. “Play On” actually debuted with just over 3K more.

^Maybe RCA/19 already knows what his pre-order sales numbers are and they are feeling really good?

RCA may very well be very confident on his sales based on upcoming promo and pre-sales but most anticipated of the year? The whole year? Out of everyone releasing albums and those who have released albums already? That’s quite a load of confidence there. He should be expected to have the highest first week sales then out of anyone who’s released this year based on that kind of expectations.

162 Allison Iraheta ‘Friday, I’ll Be Over U’  9073 (NEW; lw 60) Total: 9,822

I’m very pleased with Allison’s downloads this week. I think the numbers will go up as she does promotion and hopefully gets more radio play.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Other songs have been cut to $.99 too

Shakira
Sean Kingston
Selena Gomez
The Script
Tim McGraw
Brad Paisley
Breaking Benjamin
Chris Young
Dashboard Confessional
Jason Alden

As well as several others…

On another note… Adam’s album has moved up to #7 on Amazon with a green arrow

Some Hearts’  debuted with 314,549. ‘Play On’  actually debuted with just over 3K more.

why did I think she sold over 400K her debut week with SH? thanks for the information…

Play On is actually her 3rd album

Whoops. :)

See, that’s why it’s really hard to believe it’s her 4th. LOL

People keep harping on the flawed numbers, as you say, but after watching hardcore fans for 8 seasons, we all know how this works. The song not being available on itunes was not going to stop people from buying it.

Well, I think it’s going to stop people from buying it on iTunes and, if iTune sales are the only ones being counted, it will impact the numbers. Point is: I’m not prepared to say “we all know how this works.” I think how it works changes from year to year. And offering fye exclusively on AO for a period of time was one such change.

I keep mentioning the flawed numbers because there are just too many variables for any valid conclusions to be rendered from these initial singles. I happen to think the album sales represents a cleaner test scenario, if you will, for comparing the current idols and those from years past. Will Adam outsell David Cook? I kind of doubt it, but maybe I’ll be surprised. And maybe he won’t outsell him initially but will a year or so down the road.

Regardless, for me, that 18,000 iTunes number is meaningless.

I’m not sure when it kicked in, but we discussed the price cut on the Adam Pre-Order thread starting on Monday.

Thanks Kirsten – I didn’t dip my toes into that thread. And I agree that yesterday’s iTunes surge is attributable to the iTunes ads and album pre-orders (which unfortunately means there will be a corresponding dip in single sales the week of the album release). I was just thinking that the price cut could help FYE stay afloat a little longer, until airplay and the big-ticket album promo (AMAs, Letterman, Ellen, etc.) kicks in.

You could be right about just price-matching Amazon. But I still have to wonder why Amazon would cut the price this early either, if not in an attempt to drive volume.

I’m thinking it has more to do with the fact that Adam’s album went for presale and fans (outside the interenet world) found out his single was even released.

I think that most people who liked him enough to pre-order his cd, are going to shell out $1 to get his single right away, and not wait for the cd to drop. Also, fans tend to buy more than one single in order to help him and also to get the bonus songs. I don’t think that pre-orders should hurt his single sales. I mean with other artists there were also pre-orders and yet their singles sales were what they were regardless.

However I do think that many people don’t even know he has a single out yet. Since he hasn’t promoted it yet, and it’s just starting to get radio play. It didn’t have dramatic first week sales, and maybe the single won’t ever be huge, then again maybe it will get bigger after people become more aware of it. Either way, I think he’s going to satisfy expectations over time, maybe just not the first week or two.

I’m having season 5 flashbacks. Everyone take comfort in the fact that everybody gets over it! LOL, I’m a Taylor Hicks fan, I’m totally ok with acknowledging “Daughtry” as king of season 5!

That said, I hope they all do well. I kind of don’t get the fans sense of competition. The season is over. It’s just a tv show. They’ll sell what they’ll sell and everyone will get music from their favorite. As long as they sell enough to keep themselves employed doing what they love, who cares?

Not really following anyone’s posts before this thread, but as far as this thread goes, I agree with everything babybelle32 has said up to this point. The contest is over, and yet this happens every year. Like crazy clockwork.

FolkFan, what is this “numbery crack den” you speak of?

While Jordin didn’t have the debut numbers of the Davids, she does have something that they both want, radio credibility.

Also, Jordin has two double platinum and one triple platinum single, she IS a very successful artist. But, since this post is mostly about Adam, I think Adam is a somewhat polarizing artist, you either love him or hate him. Personally, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE him, his voice, personality, humor, intelegence, everything! and that didn’t happen during AI, but after, during the AI tour. But, unfortunately some people do not want to give him a chance. My own tenage son, who is into music, and actually has good taste, refuses to hear his single, saying that he is an overated, overhyped singer that didn’t do anything yet to prove himself. Some of my freinds has a problem with the media pushing Adam a little too hard in people’s faces, and I have to say, some of it is true. I loved TfM from the first listen, wasn’t too crazy about FYE ar first, but can’t stop listening to it now, downloaded both from I-tunes as well as preordering the album. In short, I am a huge fan and will support Adam forever, but we cannot expect this huge numbers from the start, he is a new artist, he is different,trying something new, lets give him a chance to shine. I don’t know how many albums he will sell the first week, but I do know there is some very good music on it and that will give him more fans and more sales later on plus a chance to make more music. We just have to give him a chance!

Carrie’s sales, while very good, are 200K less than what she sold opening week with CR and 100K less than what she sold with SH. Keeping in mind she she has the #1 song on country radio at the moment and is the reigning ETOY, female vocalist of the year and basically the biggest female country artist.around.

Yes but Carival Ride dropped in 2007. Pre-global recession. Regardless, 318,000 album sold is a remarkable accomplishment and nothing to dismiss in 2009.

Rascall Flatts is arguably the biggest country group. Their album, Unstoppable, came in #1 and debuted with 351,000 units sold.

“Well, I think it’s going to stop people from buying it on iTunes and, if iTune sales are the only ones being counted, it will impact the numbers.”

“It looks like the plan was not centered on Itunes, but rather trying to get sales on as many outlets as possible and until all of these figures are combined we dont really have a clear idea of how well the single sold imo.”

why is it you guys are thinking its only itunes numbers? the numbers out are what sold digitally at multiple outlets.. not just itunes…..

Regardless, for me, that 18,000 iTunes number is meaningless.

Absolutely agree. In fact , Adam sold 118, 000 copies last week. Soundscan and Billboard are very unreliable. They are not industry standard anyway.

LOL k0ka… haha

I think Adam is a somewhat polarizing artist, you either love him or hate him.

Personally I just like him, so I don’t fit the model I guess. :)

What do the numbers mean BEFORE the persons name?

Kris sales are horrible. But we know that for weeks. Adam horrible sales are news this week.

I’m apparently confused about a lot of things today, having just gone over to walk a friend’s dog, only to find that they are home today, and I wasn’t supposed to do that today. Earlier, I showed my confusion with my mistake about Carrie’s single. So, let me just ASK something now, and see if I can get my head back on straight. LOL.

The numbers for any of the S8 Idols this week, (Kris, Adam, and Allison), don’t look too exciting to me. But, I have no idea what a brand new artist could be expected to sell in a week, in today’s economy. Comparing to last year might not be valid, since there are other factors involved, so does anyone have any numbers for any non-Idol brand new artists who have just released a single? What kind of numbers are they looking at? Seems to me that would be a more valid comparison for the moment. Can anyone provide any numbers? Thanks.

I think that most people who liked him enough to pre-order his cd, are going to shell out $1 to get his single right away, and not wait for the cd to drop.

OK, this I’m sure of, since I pre-ordered the album. :)
If you preordered the album from AO or ITunes, you got the single for free, so no need to spend the $1 for the single, or wait for the album to drop.

ETA:
Back to my confusion:
“Also, fans tend to buy more than one single in order to help him and also to get the bonus songs. ”

There aren’t any bonus songs on a single…are there? I’ve never seen that, and now I wonder what I might be missing. All the singles I’ve seen just have the one song, and that’s it. The albums have bonus songs, but not the singles, AFAIK. But, I don’t trust a thing I say today, so I’ll ask for clarification on that, too.

Comparing to last year might not be valid, since there are other factors involved, so does anyone have any numbers for any non-Idol brand new artists who have just released a single? What kind of numbers are they looking at? Seems to me that would be a more valid comparison for the moment.

Why would this be a more valid comparison? Normally when a new artist releases a first single no one knows who they are, so they have to build up sales. Adam Kris and Allison for weeks were on the number one show on television, singing in front of 25 million viewers. They have had more exposure than many established artists out there. They are not going to be treated like new artists because they have obvious extreme advantages that most new artists don’t have.

I think that most people who liked him enough to pre-order his cd, are going to shell out $1 to get his single right away, and not wait for the cd to drop. Also, fans tend to buy more than one single in order to help him and also to get the bonus songs. I don’t think that pre-orders should hurt his single sales.

See-this is the same thing I kept thinking about Kris and LLWD. But Kris’ fans kept saying it wasn’t true. Of course the single drop was 5 weeks earlier. Kris fans were going to have to wait longer than two weeks before owning the album.
BTW, I only bought one single. I have no need for more than one. Did Kris fans buy multiple copies?

“Why would this be a more valid comparison? Normally when a new artist releases a first single no one knows who they are, so they have to build up sales. Adam Kris and Allison for weeks were on the number one show on television, singing in front of 25 million viewers. They have had more exposure than many established artists out there. They are not going to be treated like new artists because they have obvious extreme advantages that most new artists don’t have.”

if anything it makes the numbers look worse.. for having all that exposure that new artists dont have, and then sell poorly.

alwaysintrouble: …I did see an ad for Ali’s single on itunes’ ¦ her single has been released almost a full month before her album drops, whereas Adam’s album is less than two week away. Allison got a photoshoot and a nice album cover for her single right out of the gate (something that even kris didn’t get).

Allison’s itunes ad was an icon the size of baby ladybug – you can barely make out her face, let alone her name – and it wasn’t even in the home page. Allison hasn’t been in the media spot light or doing high profile red carpet shoots, and/or featured in any TV tabloids to have her name associated any form with the general public. I think if her radio promo had been done by Ryan Seacrest with interview and spins – streamed across the globe – not only other stations would’ve taken notice, but also a good percentage of potential buyers/listeners during the morning rush hour, thereby statistically achieving a better success rate. At this juncture, its all “base” work.

Album covers/photo shoots are nice only if the general public sees it along with a product, otherwise its worthless.
Allison needs to tap into her future fan base, as the AI audience pull has been depleted. Young fans will come with time and hard work touring, perhaps opening for Pink.

Adam Kris and Allison for weeks were on the number one show on television, singing in front of 25 million viewers.

How many of those 25 million still follow any of the S8 people? I have no idea how many people turn to blogs like this for their post-season news, but since it’s all a new world to me as of this year, I suspect that the majority of the 25 million viewers aren’t here, (or the site would probably crash from the volume of activity.) So, they’re like anyone else, not knowing that any of these people even have a single out there, unless they hear it on the radio or catch some other form of promotion for it.

I was under the impression, (still in my confused mode, so I could be wrong), that most AI viewers are kind of casual viewers, and aren’t necessarily even remembering who was on S8 anymore. TV viewers aren’t necessarily record buyers.

But, you are right, these 3 individuals have potentially had more publicity than many other brand new artists. It was a while back, though, (when did the show end? April? May? I don’t even remember), and not connected to their singles, but it IS still a good way for them to get their names out there.

Still, a lot of other brand new artists have had other ways to develop fan bases, so it might be an interesting point of comparison in the current economic climate.

I’m very pleased with Allison’s downloads this week. I think the numbers will go up as she does promotion and hopefully gets more radio play.

But is she going to do any promotion? I haven’t seen any indication of any. And we know from AI that she isn’t a very good interviewee. Depending on how well she’s taken to media training, they might not want to put her on the radio.

But, whether or not they use Allison to promote her album/single. I’m more concerned with how much time she has. She’s gotten a few adds over the past few weeks (9 total) and radio spins but it has been slow going.

I haven’t ever watched the evolution of an artist on radio before. Realistically, how long does Allison have to grow adds before the first stations start dropping her? Since Kris has broken into the Top 40 and Hot AC mediabase charts, he obviously managed to grow fast enough. At this point, Adam’s spins and adds appear to be growing a little faster than Kris’s did, so as long as he doesn’t hit a wall, he’ll probably be okay. But not everyone makes it up the chart. One station or two playing a song doesn’t mean the others will. I figure it’s a critical mass of number of stations that are playing a song that will break out a tune and it has to be done within a specific time period or more stations start dropping the song than add it. Does anyone have any further insight? Or has no one ever studied the phenomena?

If anything it makes the numbers look worse.. for having all that exposure that new artists dont have, and then sell poorly.

Yup, I would agree with that. New artists do not get magazine covers, GMA, The Tonight Show, Letterman, etc. They also do not get the constant EW references as Allison, Adam, and Kris did. There is a certain expectation as an Idol winner and runner up given all the aforementioned. So yeah, as an Idol winner, these early sales numbers are not awe-inspiring. And Adam got so much press and buzz, it’s a bit stunning how his sales numbers have not even come close to matching Archie’s.

I didn’t buy two copies of FYE – I got my copy when I bought the pre-sale of the deluxe album the day it was available. I can guarantee a ton of other people did the same. Too bad that doesn’t count.

I did, however, buy two copies of TfM – one from Amazon and one from iTunes because I heard there was a slight difference in sound quality. (I preferred the Amazon mp3.)

Add in the fact that Sony is *giving away* the TfM music video. No money to be had there either. I’d have paid for it.

***

If I average the single sales posted so far this is what I get: (feel free to tweak me for my bad math)

LLWD 98K in 6 weeks = 16K per week
TfM 68K in 3 weeks = 22K per week
FYE 18K in 1 week

They come out pretty even.

Regardless of what I think of Adam, what his fans think of him and what the liberal (yes, I said it) media thinks of him, I *know* in my heart that there are many people that simply won’t buy his music because of who he is, i.e. how he lives his life. Go ahead, call bullshit and tell me I’m making excuses. That’s one opinion and I’m entitled to mine. Adam has an uphill climb and he knew it from the start.

What’s the excuse for Kris’s weak sales?

When comparing the downloads for Adam’s two singles, TfM and FYE, the numbers don’t make sense.

How are the first week download numbers for TfM (which supposedly many Adam fans didn’t/don’t like) coming in at 50,000 while the numbers for FYE are reporting in at only 18,000 ?

Even accounting for partial week(s), FYE downloads should have come close to TfM’s, shouldn’t they?

(if this has already been discussed, sorry)

I was under the impression, (still in my confused mode, so I could be wrong), that most AI viewers are kind of casual viewers, and aren’t necessarily even remembering who was on S8 anymore. TV viewers aren’t necessarily record buyers.

Yep – we are all in the VAST minority. Most of the 30 million who watch the show forget these people after just a few weeks, let alone all these months later. So the “outside” AI fans (or the fans who liked them during the show, but aren’t following like crazy now), are the ones that matter in the long run. I seriously think all three of the released singles (and the rest of the material for that matter), seems more than strong enough to really give these guys a good chance of success outside of AI. I have faith in them :-)

Comparing to last year might not be valid, since there are other factors involved, so does anyone have any numbers for any non-Idol brand new artists who have just released a single?

You are, of course, going to find numbers all over the map. So pick one that fits your own world-view and run with it. But if you are trying to make the argument that new artist can’t be expected to sell more that 18,000 copies of a debut single, I would have to disagree. Drake opened with ~150K of ‘Best I Ever Had’ this summer. I’d have to do some digging at Pulse for other examples, but I’m sure I could find many on both ends of the spectrum.

And there is a reason that season to season Idol comparisons happen (and are reasonably valid IMO). This is the cohort where you will find the most similarities in terms of name-recognition, release timeframe, media positioning, and promotional support for otherwise new artists.

so does anyone have any numbers for any non-Idol brand new artists who have just released a single?

I don’t have the numbers – but someone could check out Justin Bieber or Owl City. I believe their numbers are through the roof.

How many of those 25 million still follow any of the S8 people? I have no idea how many people turn to blogs like this for their post-season news, but since it’s all a new world to me as of this year, I suspect that the majority of the 25 million viewers aren’t here, (or the site would probably crash from the volume of activity.)

Well earlier this morning when I tried to access this site for morning updates and received error messages, I went into panic mode and searched this blog on google in the event I messed up. I happened upon the following link:

http://www.quantcast.com/mjsbigblog.com

Not exactly relevant to this particular topic, but relevant to your comment. I was interested to see the statistics and demographic description. “This site reaches over 140K monthly people, of which 107K (76%) are in the U.S. The site appeals to a more educated, slightly female slanted audience. ”

So….you are correct – a majority of the 25 million viewers are not on this site. I know there are multiple blog and fan sites, though.

I do think it takes time for new artists to make an impression with their music, and as long as Jive/RCA continue to promote Kradison, they should be successful.

don’t have the numbers ‘“ but someone could check out Justin Bieber or Owl City. I believe their numbers are through the roof.

And both were recently featured on the iTunes freebie promotional page too. Owl City for their single “Firefly” and Justin Bieber for his video for “One Time.”

I’ve actually wondered if they might do this for Allison. I think it would be fantastic for her to be featured for a week. So many breakout artists had singles featured on iTunes in the past (Brandi Carlile, Sara Bareilles, Colbie Caillat, Adele, A Fine Frenzy). They even gave away a song from the winners of “Can You Duet?” last week. I don’t see them doing it with Adam or Kris (it would make them look desperate, I think), but Allison never got her proper due on the show and could be reasonably marketed as a genuinely “new” artist.

Regardless of what I think of Adam, what his fans think of him and what the liberal (yes, I said it) media thinks of him, I *know* in my heart that there are many people that simply won’t buy his music because of who he is, i.e. how he lives his life.

If this is true, it would mean that his choice of album cover is a rather stupid one, wouldn’t you say? One that screams “I am gay!” on the album cover is designed to deter people from buying it, doesn’t it?

(I’m not saying if this is true or not, just saying that this is the logical conclusion of what you said.)

And there is a reason that season to season Idol comparisons happen (and are reasonably valid IMO). This is the cohort where you will find the most similarities in terms of name-recognition, release timeframe, media positioning, and promotional support for otherwise new artists.

Okay. So if the initial album numbers for Kris and Adam disappoint, then it would be pretty safe to say that in general the AI viewers had reached some kind of saturation point and either did not strongly attach this past year or that they collectively decided to stop putting their money into their fandoms.

If it turns out that their album sales are very weak compared to last season, I’d be more likely to put the fault on the change in the format of the show in selecting the top 12ish. We kept hearing about record votes being received during the season. But I think what they didn’t tell us was that there were record low numbers of people actually voting. I think power voting enabled AI to keep up the appearance of a lot of people caring about the outcome each week. When in reality fewer people voted than in a long while. If people don’t vote, they don’t attach and follow the idols post season.

So the question then becomes why did so many viewers opt not to vote this past year. And this brings the format change back into play. I think that if people didn’t feel like they had input into who was in the race, then they are more likely to view it as a fun evening entertainment than to root strongly for anyone. It’ll be interesting to see how season 9 is done.

It’s a combo of

1) People thinking TFM was his first single so not being on the lookout for another

2) No banner, released in middle of week while ITunes was having trouble

Hopefully it’ll be better this week now that he has a banner, even if he’s sharing it with peeps. I srsly think he could’ve sold SO much more if it was released on new music tuesday with a big banner just for FYE… espesh if there wasn’t a TFM to complicate things… but oh well.

there are many people that simply won’t buy his music because of who he is, i.e. how he lives his life. Go ahead, call bullshit and tell me I’m making excuses.

It’s just so convenient to hold up the gay card and scream foul. It didn’t seem to matter when everyone was creaming their pants off over Mad World. So maybe, just maybe, it’s not the singer, maybe, it’s the song that sucks (and not in a good way). Then again, maybe, it is about Adam but not for being gay; not liking someone can also stem from them being arrogant or entitled or fake. It doesn’t have to be all about the gay.

Regardless of what I think of Adam, what his fans think of him and what the liberal (yes, I said it) media thinks of him, I *know* in my heart that there are many people that simply won’t buy his music because of who he is, i.e. how he lives his life.

being gay/bisexual, or rumours of such hasn’t stopped the public from embracing artists and continuing to buy the music of david bowie, elton john, melissa ethredge, george michael, k.d. lang, the indigo girls, queen, ne-yo, britney spears, pink, etc., so lambert can’t fall back onto the ”gay” excuse… not to say there still aren’t some pockets of resistance in some music buyers minds, because there may be, but it doesn’t appear to hold one back as much these days as one may think… i think it’s all in the connection with the music, and the marketing of the artist with the intended audience…

You are, of course, going to find numbers all over the map. So pick one that fits your own world-view and run with it. But if you are trying to make the argument that new artist can’t be expected to sell more that 18,000 copies of a debut single, I would have to disagree. Drake opened with ~150K of ‘Best I Ever Had’ this summer. I’d have to do some digging at Pulse for other examples, but I’m sure I could find many on both ends of the spectrum.

Wasn’t Drake’s download repressed, though? I believe I heard it on the radio for a while before it was available on iTunes.

I don’t have the numbers ‘“ but someone could check out Justin Bieber or Owl City. I believe their numbers are through the roof.

Sure, they are huge now, but what was their opening week, and the couple weeks that follow? Both songs have had big airplay as well, which none of the idols have yet, Kris included. He’s moving up there, but it’s going to be a while.

Hazehel
11/11/2009 at 5:11 pm
If this is true, it would mean that his choice of album cover is a rather stupid one, wouldn’t you say? One that screams ‘I am gay!’  on the album cover is designed to deter people from buying it, doesn’t it?

(I’m not saying if this is true or not, just saying that this is the logical conclusion of what you said.)

Well, I think his choice of album cover plays more to the retro/glam throwback than the ‘gay’ angle – i.e. Bowie, T-Rex, NY Dolls look. But to your point, IMO people who won’t buy his music because of his lifestyle wouldn’t be swayed by an album photo that butches him up to look like the Details mag cover.

ggdoorsfan
11/11/2009 at 5:18 pm
Regardless of what I think of Adam, what his fans think of him and what the liberal (yes, I said it) media thinks of him, I *know* in my heart that there are many people that simply won’t buy his music because of who he is, i.e. how he lives his life.

being gay/bisexual, or rumours of such hasn’t stopped the public from embracing artists and continuing to buy the music of david bowie, elton john, melissa ethredge, george michael, k.d. lang, the indigo girls, queen, ne-yo, britney spears, pink, etc., so lambert can’t fall back onto the ‘ gay’  excuse’ ¦ not to say there still aren’t some pockets of resistance in some music buyers minds, because there may be, but it doesn’t appear to hold one back as much these days as one may think’ ¦ i think it’s all in the connection with the music, and the marketing of the artist with the intended audience’ ¦

I’m not saying *he* is falling back on the gay excuse. It is my opinion only. There are many gay artists, but it’s been mentioned numerous times that all of those artists had established careers before coming out. I’ve been a major Elton John fan since 1974. And I remember well when he lost an enormous amount of his fan base in the late 70s due to his coming out.

What I’m referring to is the wholesome American Idol image that is typically embraced by the heart of America. There are a great many people that aren’t just ignoring Adam but actively *want* him to fail, not because of the “my idol is better than your idol” syndrome but something far more political. I’m not talking about the Idol fans on Idol blogs – I’m speaking about outside the so-called bubble. YMMV

ETA: And again, as my original posts asks…if both of these artists have similar sales, I can come up with reasons for Adam to potentially not do well. I don’t see the same reasons for Kris.

These guys aren’t connecting with the general population, I guess.

And now, the same kind of dynamic is brewing here for S8′ ¦it’s funny now that we all thought the sky fell when he barely broke 100K. LOL

Perspective. I’m so glad that I wasn’t all that invested in this season.

You know, whenever these comparisons to past idols and how well they did right out of the gate come up, I’m reminded of things like Taylor debuting at #1 on Hot100. That’s why I’ve personally cared very little about how much of a base these guys have off of the show, or how many gazillion copies they sell in the first week. I’d much rather they all have long successful careers, than just sell 100K, or whatever, right off the bat.

I’ve not read many comments, but wow, 18K? Color me surprised by that… unless…

I didn’t buy two copies of FYE ‘“ I got my copy when I bought the pre-sale of the deluxe album the day it was available. I can guarantee a ton of other people did the same. Too bad that doesn’t count.

Is this true, those don’t count as single sales??? Same for iTunes pre-order? That’s surprising, if it’s true. But I suppose it does partially explain the low number if it is.

I guess this surprises me in the same way that Adam losing surprised me though. Up hill battle indeed. They all do.

Any info on international sales? If the single gimme that accompanies album preorder doesn’t count, I suppose it doesn’t really matter…

The numbers are not that great, but in reality those initial numbers don’t add up to a successful career. The general non-idol buying public is what matters. Look at Taylor, Fantasia, Studdard, and Clay. Huge sales. Little radio play, and little recognition outside the idol bubble. Now look at Jordin, not a huge fanbase, but ask any of my fourth graders who she is and they know every song of hers, and have her music. So let’s take Adam. He has a huge following on Twitter, but not all those followers, really read his tweets, or care what he is doing. I bet they listen to the radio though. Many of those listeners purchase music they like, and many download it illegally. Let’s now take internet followers, the truth is that it seems like there are a huge amount of fans that are drooling at every picture and move he and other idols make, but the truth is that a few thousand, and the really diehard bloggers, and commenter are probably in the hundreds. So yes ouch at the numbers, but if the the music is good, and they reach a hit. It won’t matter.

The numbers are not that great, but in reality those initial numbers don’t add up to a successful career. The general non-idol buying public is what matters. Look at Taylor, Fantasia, Studdard, and Clay. Huge sales. Little radio play, and little recognition outside the idol bubble. Now look at Jordin, not a huge fanbase, but ask any of my fourth graders who she is and they know every song of hers, and have her music. So let’s take Adam. He has a huge following on Twitter, but not all those followers, really read his tweets, or care what he is doing. I bet they listen to the radio though. Many of those listeners purchase music they like, and many download it illegally. Let’s now take internet followers, the truth is that it seems like there are a huge amount of fans that are drooling at every picture and move he and other idols make, but the truth is that a few thousand, and the really diehard bloggers, and commenter are probably in the hundreds. So yes ouch at the numbers, but if the the music is good, and they reach a hit. It won’t matter.

I’m not invested this season and haven’t been following as closely as I did last year. I’m surprised at the numbers, but I do think it’s still early. Something is definitely different this year–not sure what. The disconnect between media coverage and numbers (at least the initial ones) is certainly interesting and will spawn countless theories.

IMO, part of it is an oversaturation of “idols” period. Carrie almost doesn’t count because she is entirely established independent of the machine at this point. It just feels like for weeks and weeks now there have been headlines and blurbs about various newer idols releasing music. The uninvested general schmo probably gets weary of it after a while and just tunes it out–I I know I have, and I consider myself to be much more plugged in to idol news than the general public.

And it’s an old refrain but it’s true. Idols are NOT like other artists, which is why comparing them to one another tends to happen and, if one is going to compare, makes more sense than comparing them outside that group. Idols come with their own stigmas as well as advantages when debuting on the scene.

I will say, Adam’s trajectory is unlike any I have seen in 8 seasons of idols. That is not his fault. It is what it is. Again, I still think it’s too early to make any dire judgments. All he needs, and what any idol needs, is for his single to catch on. And there is still plenty of time for that to happen.

Wasn’t Drake’s download repressed, though? I believe I heard it on the radio for a while before it was available on iTunes.

It well may have been, I’m not sure. But again, this just underscores my point that in terms of similar release strategies, press, promo, and sheer name recognition, the best comparisons (at least in that first week) are always going to be the other Idols. There will always be additional context to those comparisons (state of the music industry and the economy, different vehicles for the premiere of the single, success/failure of an existing coronation song, etc.). But at the end of the day the most valid benchmarks are going to be set by the others who were “new” but known.

It’s just so convenient to hold up the gay card and scream foul. It didn’t seem to matter when everyone was creaming their pants off over Mad World. So maybe, just maybe, it’s not the singer, maybe, it’s the song that sucks (and not in a good way). Then again, maybe, it is about Adam but not for being gay; not liking someone can also stem from them being arrogant or entitled or fake. It doesn’t have to be all about the gay.

I totally agree. Being gay (or is she bi?) hasn’t hurt Lady Gaga or plenty of other artists, from Freddie Mercury to Elton John. And one could argue Adam got *extra* attention precisely because there were questions about his sexual orientation during the season and then tons of press for his being the first gay star to come off the show.

For the record, I was a huge fan of Adam early in the season, but by the end, I was tired of all the hype. TPTB were just trying way too hard to sell him, and his postseason handlers have done likewise, IMHO. It’s called “managing expectations,” and it’s a tough game to play for politicians and recording artists alike.

I’m not trying to rile anybody up, but there’s a sense of entitlement about Adam that isn’t necessarily his fault but is still a *major* turn-off to me, and I’m guessing I’m not alone. He’s been marketed (and the press has been way too accommodating in regurgitating the meme) as an inevitable star. A force to be reckoned with.

Hell, the banner ad appearing with this very page is announcing Adam’s album (with its ridiculous, in a bad way, cover) as “the most anticipated album of the year.” I loved the guy on the show, but I just gotta cry “bullshit” to that. I buy a lot of albums, and have purchased half a dozen the last few weeks, and Adam’s was not on the top of my list at all. I may or may not buy it after I get a chance to preview it in its entirety, but telling me I have to have it is most likely to make me not want it. That’s just how I roll. Sorry.

I think Kris and Adam’s sells have to do with the dwindling AI fan base. The music critics seem to think both Kris and Adam are releasing singles/albums that are far superior than the normal post AI debut album. So if it is not the quaility of the music, it is something else.

By the way, how does Soundscan collect its data? I have no idea how this works. Is it something that some schmo at Amazon and ITUNES has to report, or is there software that automatically sends the info to them? If that is the case, would AO have to manually call in the data if they don’t have that software? And how would you confirm the numbers?

”retro glam” artists were for the most part gay or bisexual, in a time and era that wasn’t as ”receptive” to that kind of genre as today… i know, because me and my friends had to hide our david bowie albums from our folks because they thought he was some kind of ”freak”, hahhaha… at 13/14 yrs of age i picked up on and understood the androgyny and the gay subtexts swirling in a cosmic ball of musical delight… what bowie and marc bolan and the ny dolls were doing was truly groundbreaking, cutting edge, and envelope pushing – and doing it in less receptive cultural times and making a lasting impact is remarkable… the ”glam” and the music were intertwined, but the glam for me never overshadowed the music with these artists, it just made it and them more interesting.

Can I just say that Kris has not had nearly the exposure that Adam has. On top of that, Adam has a banner up on iTunes. So I find it hard to even compare Kris and Adam’s exposure.

I’m also starting to think that Kris won due to the casual viewer, and have realized, for quite a while now, that his fan base isn’t nearly as big as DC’s and even Archie’s were last year. And smaller than Adam’s.

I’m just hoping that this is something that 19 realizes (if I’m right) and will continue to let him grow outside of the idol bubble to some extent.

I may or may not buy it after I get a chance to preview it in its entirety, but telling me I have to have it is most likely to make me not want it. That’s just how I roll. Sorry.

So even if you like the music, you won’t buy it because you are protesting the hype?

I’m not saying *he* is falling back on the gay excuse. It is my opinion only. There are many gay artists, but we’ve already discussed many times that all of those artists had established careers before coming out. I’ve been a major Elton John fan since 1974. And I remember well when he lost an enormous amount of his fan base in the late 70s due to his coming out.

What I’m referring to is the wholesome American Idol image that is typically embraced by the heart of America. There are a great many people that aren’t just ignoring Adam but actively *want* him to fail, not because of the ‘my idol is better than your idol’  syndrome but something far more political. YMMV

You know, that may be correct, at some level. It also might not be. But artists sell based on people who love them/enjoy their product. They don’t sell based on people failing to hate them. You’d have to make the argument that your “heart of America” you so invoked was such a full majority that his intended audience (which, for stylistic reasons alone related to the music, one might not imagine intersecting much with the stereotype you’re invoking anyway) that he couldn’t latch on to them for sales. That’s a tough sell, if I’m being honest.

What’s the excuse for Kris’s weak sales?

Nothing. I’m, personally am not going to make one. He’s selling poorly at the moment. But, it doesn’t matter to me because I don’t like Kris because he’s the bestselling artist out there, I like him because of his music. And his album is great, so, as a fan, what more could I ask for?

Ill answer my own question: For his album to sell enough so that he doesn’t get dropped from his label and so that he can make a second album. Kris fans are not known to make wild predictions about his impending superstardom that doesn’t seem to materialize. So, there.

The thing is, people who watch the show and vote, don’t necessarily buy. I voted pretty heavily for Blake on Season 6 but I’ve yet to buy a thing from him. I voted for Cook and Castro last year and have only purchased one song from Jason, none from Cook. So votes do not = sales.

Well, I think his choice of album cover plays more to the retro/glam throwback than the ‘gay’ angle ‘“ i.e. Bowie, T-Rex, NY Dolls look.

Not to me, no. The picture doesn’t remind me of Bowie (more androgynous or sexually ambiguous) or T-Rex (pretty boy look). NY Dolls perhaps, but then NY Dolls was never mainstream like Bowie and T-Rex (and with good reasons). I’m afraid that picture says drag queen or transvestite to me.

why is it you guys are thinking its only itunes numbers? the numbers out are what sold digitally at multiple outlets.. not just itunes’ ¦..

The point is we don’t have clarification of exactly what it covers. For example, does it cover AO sales where fye was sold exclusively for a period of time? If anyone has a definitive answer, please share.

listen
11/11/2009 at 4:51 pm
How are the first week download numbers for TfM (which supposedly many Adam fans didn’t/don’t like) coming in at 50,000 while the numbers for FYE are reporting in at only 18,000 ?

How indeed. Which is why so many Adam fans think the reported fye number doesn’t tell the whole story.

The 19/RCA peeps have the real numbers … the iTunes sales from all of S8, the ones we don’t have. I’m guessing there’s a reason they’ve thrown so much support behind Adam and given him the freedom to make the album he wants.

I’m also starting to think that Kris won due to the casual viewer

cookcricket, i’m curious to see how many of those viewers are going to buy Kris album. The album sales will tell us all, until then it’s pure speculation to some extent

So even if you like the music, you won’t buy it because you are protesting the hype?

Some people are like that, absolutely. It absolutely stopped me from buying anything Archuleta, for example, though, to be fair, I don’t think anything he’d make would be my cup of tea. (Didn’t happen to stop me from buying Adam’s single. As much as I’m not fully on the Adam train and as much as I didn’t even like that single, I’m hoping he does well.)

If Adam/Kris/Allison had followed Blake/Jordin with regard to post Idol product and sales, then the oversaturation argument might have more legs. However, how do you explain how well The Davids then? The Davids are crushing KRADAM in radio and sales right now — there is *no* comparison, really. Again, even with those great (initial) sales, The Davids still worked their assess off their first year off Idol. Adam, Kris and Allison will just have to work hard in the trenches and broaden their fanbases.

Can I just say that Kris has not had nearly the exposure that Adam has. On top of that, Adam has a banner up on iTunes. So I find it hard to even compare Kris and Adam’s exposure.

I’m also starting to think that Kris won due to the casual viewer, and have realized, for quite a while now, that his fan base isn’t nearly as big as DC’s and even Archie’s were last year. And smaller than Adam’s.

I’m just hoping that this is something that 19 realizes (if I’m right) and will continue to let him grow outside of the idol bubble to some extent.

Kris seems to be marketed as a brand new artist rather than as THE American Idol. Frankly, I like that better as this removes the “cheese-factor” associated with the franchise and possibly attract new fans. I just hope it pays off.

What’s the excuse for Kris’s weak sales?

I imagine the cry is going to be weak promotion. I’m not sure that’s all fair (from my perception right now, he’s not getting as broad of coverage as Adam, but he’s still getting a significant amount), but I think that is going to be the defense that’s going to hang around for a long time.

I also forgot to mention that neither has had any radio play since May. Kris dumped No Boundaries, and Adam just got a single. Cook’s TOML was a very big hit, and by this time had two singles charting, Archies Crush was a big hit. Just sayin’. Now I will divert to this, I am a little ticked off, and suspicious about the noms for Peoples Choice awards for both Kris and Adam. Neither has done squat. I remember arguing this point about Cook and Archie last year, and those two already had hits on the radio! Strange.

So even if you like the music, you won’t buy it because you are protesting the hype?

If I love what I hear, I’ll buy it. But if I’m on the fence, I’ll just buy the singles I like.

Adam is a Certified Rock Star. I know this because Rolling Stone tells me so. He doesn’t need my $10.99. I’d rather spend it on the struggling artists who do need my money.

LOL Bootstar.

Adam is a Certified Rock Star. I know this because Rolling Stone tells me so.

BootStar, you so rock.

BootStar
11/11/2009 at 5:36 pm
I totally agree. Being gay (or is she bi?) hasn’t hurt Lady Gaga or plenty of other artists, from Freddie Mercury to Elton John. And one could argue Adam got *extra* attention precisely because there were questions about his sexual orientation during the season and then tons of press for his being the first gay star to come off the show.

I hope people take my comments in context and in the spirit with which they were meant.

Lady GaGa claims to be bisexual. And America has been somewhat more embracing of lesbian celebrities than gay ones in my opinion (Rosie/Ellen come to mind: both had established careers well before officially coming out).

Freddie Mercury never admitted to the press that he was gay until the day before he died of AIDS. Elton John’s albums were burned and he plummeted from #1 superstar from 1974-1976 to near obscurity for the three years following his Rolling Stone cover article when he let slip that he was *bisexual* (a fib because he dare not say gay until years later). He didn’t recover fully in the 80s (mediocre music didn’t help), only truly re-emerging as a superstar in the 90s. Now he’s a legend. It wasn’t always so.

I hate the term “playing the gay card,” but a fact is a fact. Adam *is* gay. The day it doesn’t matter is the day I’m waiting for.

I’m not saying Adam won’t be successful. I’m trying to come up with reasons that might *contribute* to why the numbers are what they are. It sure isn’t because he’s not talented. The music he’s recorded is good, too.

Has Adam been hyped? Yes. But he can hardly be blamed for it personally. And yet, he will be the one to pay for it ultimately if 19/RCA can’t convince people the hype is true.

Again, Kris’s numbers are just as bad. Which to me is worse because he is the reigning Idol. Either something is really wrong, or previous seasons that folks keep comparing them against were the real anomalies.

cookcricket
11/11/2009 at 5:38 pm
Can I just say that Kris has not had nearly the exposure that Adam has. On top of that, Adam has a banner up on iTunes. So I find it hard to even compare Kris and Adam’s exposure.

True. For one thing, can you say 2012?

I’m also starting to think that Kris won due to the casual viewer, and have realized, for quite a while now, that his fan base isn’t nearly as big as DC’s and even Archie’s were last year. And smaller than Adam’s.

True again! Get this: I was a huge David Cook fan last year. My best friend from high school lives in Blue Springs, Missouri, and when we reconnected last year and I found out she lived in Cook’s home town and that she was a huge fan, well, let’s just say it was exciting. When the album came out I was crazy excited…only to find out she didn’t even know he had an album out, and she never ordered it. I think Kris’s good guy charm and relaxed (chill) style of music caused a lot of people to vote for him…people who won’t necessarily buy a CD or download music. The majority of Adam’s fans are gonna be buying his music…because if you’re a fan of Adam, you’re a FAN!

cookcricket
11/11/2009 at 5:38 pm
Can I just say that Kris has not had nearly the exposure that Adam has. On top of that, Adam has a banner up on iTunes. So I find it hard to even compare Kris and Adam’s exposure.

cookcricket, didn’t Kris have an iTunes banner when LLWD was released?

cookcricket, didn’t Kris have an iTunes banner when LLWD was released?

He got the Allison thumbnail treatment, I think (which I think matters even less in this new format where you have to click to actually see the new singles). Not really the full-blown banner treatments, no.

Now I will divert to this, I am a little ticked off, and suspicious about the noms for Peoples Choice awards for both Kris and Adam.

I’m with you there. When I heard about the noms for breakout artist I was totally going WTF? It’s the high of rediculousness to have them nominated.

Mark, I’m sorry if my post comes across as perpetuating a stereotype. Fact is, I am married to a conservative republican who comes from a family of the same. I’m a liberal democrat. Don’t ask me how it works (the marriage, LOL) but it does. But I personally know far too many people that will turn off the radio rather than even attempt to listen to anything by Adam Lambert. Because he is gay. You can’t tell me that wouldn’t affect sales.

Not sure if this was posted. From Jim Cantiello. Related to the topic sort of.

A massive, epic, flailing congrats to @adamlambert for making iTunes explode. WOW! WOW! WOW! #IsItNov23Yet

Trina
11/11/2009 at 3:37 pm

^Maybe RCA/19 already knows what his pre-order sales numbers are and they are feeling really good?

RCA may very well be very confident on his sales based on upcoming promo and pre-sales but most anticipated of the year? The whole year? Out of everyone releasing albums and those who have released albums already? That’s quite a load of confidence there. He should be expected to have the highest first week sales then out of anyone who’s released this year based on that kind of expectations.

His album IS the most anticipated of the year. Why? well, just like his run on AI everyone wanted to know what would Adam do this next? nothing new there, and I don’t think anyone said anything about braking all time record sales, only that RCA may be feeling really good about their investment in Adam.

Now I will divert to this, I am a little ticked off, and suspicious about the noms for Peoples Choice awards for both Kris and Adam.

I’m with you there. When I heard about the noms for breakout artist I was totally going WTF? It’s the high of rediculousness to have them nominated.

To be fair, it is the People’s Choice Awards, which you really have to take kind of at face value and not give too much import to. It is just a fan-voted thing, so I’m not sure, given that, how much anything really matters asides from the brand.

When I first saw the 18,000 in sales for FYE I had to keep myself from panicking.
I’m really trying to remember to look at this stuff week-to-week or better yet month-to-month but sometimes the comments on this site get even the best of us riled up.
Words like, fail, dismal, underwhelming, disappointing, suck, pathetic all so negative. Analyzing this down to the minute details is pointless.

Look at Adam, he is always positive. Celebrate the little wins. Karma people karma.

Take a step back and breathe.
Daily visitors to this site and fans that track this stuff so closely can’t see the forest for the trees.
Adam will be fine.
The roll-out for each Idol is going well.

Come back in a month or 6 or a year and we will all be reading about the successes and the day-to-day worrying and judgments will have faded to grey.
Breathe’ ¦
“It’s all happening”

“So even if you like the music, you won’t buy it because you are protesting the hype?”

yes, i do this with lots of stuff. I wont watch glee because of the hype.. wont watch on principle alone. lol

Adam is a Certified Rock Star. I know this because Rolling Stone tells me so.

If I were you, I would cancel my subcription to RS. :)

cookcricket, didn’t Kris have an iTunes banner when LLWD was released?

Did he? Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he just had an ad on the page. Maybe he did since I didn’t go to the pop page when it came out…

These numbers are combined, not just itunes. Why are some still arguing about numbers?
And economy has to be playing a big part in this.
And Kris being with Jive, they push singles more. Just like Crush with David Archuleta sold way more than Cook’s single Light On.

But the album sales of Cook was higher than Archuleta. And that is how RCA 19 pushes. They push the album over the singles.

So, Adam, being with same as Cook, is not going to see single sale as much as album. Versus kris’s single may be his bigger sale rather than album.

Just a thing to consider with differences in the artists recording companies; Jive and RCA.

And this includes promo. Do any of you recall the plastering of the internet last year with Cook’s album? You didn’t see that with his single. It was a marketing decision obviously of the company to wait and push album versus singles.
And Jive didn’t do as much with Archie’s album versus the single got the spotlight. They also recognize that Archuleta and Kris are more starting out artists whereas RCA taking on Cook and Lambert as more established. They both have had albums out and music whereas Archuleta and Kris are so new in this. Same with Jordin. It has taken her three years to get to where she is just now being recognized.

yes, i do this with lots of stuff. I wont watch glee because of the hype.. wont watch on principle alone. lol

Sometimes hype is just that, hype. Other times, it does mean something. Disneyland is touted as being the happiest place on earth. And guess what? I have season passes. It’s only a 45 minute drive from my house. I love the place and I will happily continue to hype it even though I’m not on the Mouse’s payroll.

Adam is a Certified Rock Star. I know this because Rolling Stone tells me so.

Exactly – so why does he need us little people? But seriously, sometimes I do feel like Adam is overhyped so I get where this statement is going.

His album IS the most anticipated of the year. Why? well, just like his run on AI everyone wanted to know what would Adam do this next?

Anticipated by whom? How exactly do we measure “anticipation levels”? Or do I need a paid subscription to those numbers too?

“Sometimes hype is just that, hype. Other times, it does mean something. Disneyland is touted as being the happiest place on earth. And guess what? I have season passes. It’s only a 45 minute drive from my house. I love the place and I will happily continue to hype it even though I’m not on the Mouse’s payroll.”

im just proving a point that sometimes the hype alone can and will turn off people.

Mark, I’m sorry if my post comes across as perpetuating a stereotype. Fact is, I am married to a conservative republican who comes from a family of the same. I’m a liberal democrat. Don’t ask me how it works (the marriage, LOL) but it does. But I personally know far too many people that will turn off the radio rather than even attempt to listen to anything by Adam Lambert. Because he is gay. You can’t tell me that wouldn’t affect sales.

Never accused you of such a thing! I’m just hacking at it from as much of an empirical standpoint as I can while briefly sitting down with some root beer and procrastinating from writing a paper.

I don’t think I said it won’t affect sales. It probably will, to a degree. However, I don’t think it is nearly as significant an effect as can be used to blame these particular sales, or any kind of negative sales in the future, for essentially the axiom I used before. Could go into why I think that…

Anticipated by whom? How exactly do we measure ‘anticipation levels’ ? Or do I need a paid subscription to those numbers too?

I suspect by music critics. I don’t think Adam’s album is on the radar of the majority of the general public. Also, as we all know, a portion of the AI internet bubble can’t stand him.

I’m thrilled by the increase in Kris’s single sales. He might have started low, but he’s been very steady for the past few weeks. A gradual rise is still a rise.

I was expecting Adam’s sales to be higher, but it’s not really a big deal. FYE isn’t TFM, after all. It seems to be starting to get airplay. I’m sure it will continue to improve.

I’m happy for both guys. I think they’ve got good starts.

“Anticipated by whom? How exactly do we measure ‘anticipation levels’ ? Or do I need a paid subscription to those numbers too?”

if you find the subscription site let me know.

I suspect by music critics. I don’t think Adam’s album is on the radar of the majority of the general public. Also, as we all know, a portion of the AI internet bubble can’t stand him.

What concerns me about the music critics hyping Adam is that he might end up like Blake – music critics were so sure that his album would be amazing and were hyped about it. And in the end it didn’t do well – I worry that Adam could fall victim to the same thing.

Anticipated by whom? How exactly do we measure ‘anticipation levels’ ? Or do I need a paid subscription to those numbers too?

I suspect by music critics. I don’t think Adam’s album is on the radar of the majority of the general public. Also, as we all know, a portion of the AI internet bubble can’t stand him.

Pfft. Music critics are a notoriously hard group to homogenize in this day and age, and an Idol contestant (any of them) isn’t exactly the kind of thing you’d imagine them gathering around. Besides, talking about “Most anticipated album of the year” is like talking about “Four out of five dentists recommend [insert toothpaste]“; the means to which one gets to that are at best statistically weak.

Look at Taylor, Fantasia, Studdard, and Clay. Huge sales. Little radio play, and little recognition outside the idol bubble.

Actually, both Fantasia and Ruben have done well when it comes to radio airplay. Fantasia’s second single from her sophomore album (When I See U) was a huge success on Urban radio. Ruben’s lead single from his second R&B album spent weeks at the #1 spot on Urban AC radio. But because they haven’t crossed over and had mainstream success, they don’t get talked about.

I do agree with the rest of your post. FYE’s sales numbers are what they are. I haven’t seen anyone declaring Adam a failure, but the first week sales for this single are underwhelming, just as LLWD’s opening week sales were. Yes, there were some Adam fans who were quick to beat the fail drums for LLWD in the first week, and for those fans these FYE sales numbers are sobering and a bit of a wake up call. But in the end, it matters very little because their Idol fanbases can’t (and won’t) carry Adam or Kris’ sales long term. There was no need for worry or gloom and doom for LLWD in its first week, and there’s no need to be worried about FYE.

It’s nice to make headlines with a big opening week like the Davids did, but if Kris & Adam are going to be successful recording artists they are going to have to expand their fanbases beyond what they brought with them from the Idol competition. Otherwise, they will wind up like Blake Lewis or Taylor Hicks. LLWD looks to be on the right track. With additional airplay and exposure, FYE should continue to make positive strides as well.

What concerns me about the music critics hyping Adam is that he might end up like Blake ‘“ music critics were so sure that his album would be amazing and were hyped about it. And in the end it didn’t do well ‘“ I worry that Adam could fall victim to the same thing.

I didn’t follow the blogs Blake’s season so I didn’t know he was hyped by the critics. How did they review his album snippets? Were they decent reviews? From what I have read, both Kris and Adam are getting praise for having singles/albums that are superior than the usual AI debut albums.

Does anyone know why FYE isn’t being played on the radio? I’m from Philadelphia and I’ve requested the song a few times and haven’t heard it yet. FYE is much better than most of the songs on TOP 40, I don’t understand why they aren’t playing it. I think this has a lot to do with the sales for FYE not being so great, because it’s not getting airtime. I think if it does, the song would be huge! Does anyone have any info about this?

It’s still early, KMF. If FYE can continue to climb the airplay charts and eventually crack Top 40, you’ll see more stations (particularly major markets) add the song to their playlists. It takes time.

Jive or RCA has little with what is going to sell better single or albums. It depends more on genre. Rock sells more records than pop in general. Yeah, i expected Kris to sell less singles. But Adam single is pop. It has to sell more. Also Kris will never sell singles as Jordin. He will never have radioplay as Jordin has.

Mark, I’m sorry if my post comes across as perpetuating a stereotype. Fact is, I am married to a conservative republican who comes from a family of the same. I’m a liberal democrat. Don’t ask me how it works (the marriage, LOL) but it does. But I personally know far too many people that will turn off the radio rather than even attempt to listen to anything by Adam Lambert. Because he is gay. You can’t tell me that wouldn’t affect sales.

Here’s the thing, those people never were Adam’s audience. Those people don’t buy Adam’s music…or Lady GaGa’s, or Britney’s, or Jay-Z’s….and yet the last three are some of the top selling artists of the year.

There are 300 million people in America, and it only takes 1 million sales to make an album Platinum. No one will appeal to everyone, you only have to appeal enough to those people who should like your style to do well.

So, there are homophobes in America. It sucks, and something needs to be done about it, but that will in no way effect Adam’s album sales. It’s not an excuse.

He didn’t do as well out of the gate some expected, and he is an artists expected to do well out of the gate. There is no reason to believe RCA would hold back on the sales from his website. That’s all of it.

Blake will never blow up the Billboard charts, but I’ve liked both of his albums a great deal. No complaints here.

Same with Kris. Many of his fans never expected him to blow up Billboard, so it’s just really nice that he actually made an album worth listening to, and looks to be a much better live performer than many of us gave him credit.

Maybe Adam builds an audience, maybe not. Who cares if you like the music…which I do.

Also, I love Jim Cantiello, but that must be some nice crack he’s smoking if he thinks Adam is blowing up iTunes. He’s doing much better, but in no way is he doing off the charts AWESOME! lol

Here’s the thing, those people never were Adam’s audience. Those people don’t buy Adam’s music’ ¦or Lady GaGa’s, or Britney’s, or Jay-Z’s’ ¦.and yet the last three are some of the top selling artists of the year.

There are 300 million people in America, and it only takes 1 million sales to make an album Platinum. No one will appeal to everyone, you only have to appeal enough to those people who should like your style to do well.

So, there are homophobes in America. It sucks, and something needs to be done about it, but that will in no way effect Adam’s album sales. It’s not an excuse.

He didn’t do as well out of the gate some expected, and he is an artists expected to do well out of the gate. There is no reason to believe RCA would hold back on the sales from his website. That’s all of it.

That’s basically what I was getting at in the first post, though in fewer words, and I eventually added the caveat that it would affect his sales… but not in a hugely substantial way that would keep him from rising right up the Billboard charts. The reasons are really to be found elsewhere.

How did they review his album snippets?

I don’t remember last year anyone reviewing the David’s album snippets, I’m going to assume Jordin and Blake didn’t get that either.
I see this year Jim and Slezak are all over the contestants and comment on anything, but I don’t think it was like that before. I know with Cook (who I followed more) he had MTV and EW coverage but it was done by other people that not the idol guys, so they wouldn’t comment on every move.
Anyway, I think Blake got some good album reviews.

Maybe Adam builds an audience, maybe not. Who cares if you like the music’ ¦which I do.

I care. Because building an audience is necessary for him to continue to produce the music I want to hear AND the performances I want to go see. It doesn’t have to be stadium size audiences. But for the type of shows he wants to put on and I want to see, he needs a pretty darn good following who are willing to part with their money. That means a certain level of success. The bigger the success, the bigger the show.

what lovely numbers to come back to after months of real life! I think Kris’ fanbase is certainly small, much like Jordin’s situation two years ago. But he’s in a genre which still sells album so hopefully his singles and airplay will help drive airplay. really like his album btw. I was not as obsessed with it as i was with Blake and Archie’s albums, but strangely i think it will do better than those two.

His album IS the most anticipated of the year.

Oh gosh, can the Glamberts stop generating unrealistic expectations for Adam? Consider it a favor to the humanity.

(1) I saw someone mention the single from the winners of Can You Duet? It’s called Keep on Lovin’ You, and it is awesome. I had it on a playlist, and win it came up on my ipod, I had to listen to it a few times in a world. So very catchy, and they both have great vocals on it.

(2) Heh. Erinthered: The “numbery crack den” is mediabase. I will miss access to that when it is gone. So much to play with! Look, there’s DC as the #68 most played artist on radio year-to-date, right next to Jordin, at #67! Who knew that Led Zeppelin still got enough play to land it at #40 for the year? I knew that country got a lot of airplay, but did not know that it got enough airplay that literally 1/3 of the top 60 are country artists. [Yeah, that includes Taylor Swift, but she's the only one of them who's had significant crossover with songs in this cycle.] Fun, fun, fun, fun. It’s like number nerdery on steroids.

(3) I have typically chafed at the constant need to compare Idol contestants, but ultimately, came to the same conclusion that LadyM did: setting aside the fact that Idol is an inherently competitive show creating inherently competitive fanbases, given how hard it is to find other comparators, it is probably inevitable that there will be comparisons between Idol artists. I mean, it is silly to compare, say, David Cook to David Archuleta. They don’t do the same music. Much about their musical experiences is very different. Their target audiences are quite different. But… you can’t really compare Idol debuts to “regular” new artists, who don’t have the comparative advantages of Idol—the built-in fanbases of some size or other, the availability of top-notch promo, name recognition, interest from the press. But comparing them to truly established artists who have a history on radio and fanbases who maybe have already bought multiple CDs and gone to see them on , etc., isn’t really fair, either. Ultimately, the Idol contestants end up competing with all of these other artists in the real world, but it is not really all that surprising to see comparisons between different Idol contestants, because who else is a good comparator?

luvwut,

I believe it’s the media that has called it highly anticipated. Here’s a couple of references.

http://www.antimusic.com/news/09/nov/05Adam_Lambert_Album_Details_Released.shtml

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/popwrap/breaking_down_adam_lambert_sassy_BCsJTEPhxwCwqmpRzC6v1L

luvwut,

I believe it’s the media that has called it highly anticipated. Here’s a couple of references.

I was directly replying to words of a glambert. I understand that lots of media love Adam.

LaurelG
11/11/2009 at 5:41 pm

listen
11/11/2009 at 4:51 pm
How are the first week download numbers for TfM (which supposedly many Adam fans didn’t/don’t like) coming in at 50,000 while the numbers for FYE are reporting in at only 18,000 ?

How indeed. Which is why so many Adam fans think the reported fye number doesn’t tell the whole story.

The 19/RCA peeps have the real numbers ‘ ¦ the iTunes sales from all of S8, the ones we don’t have. I’m guessing there’s a reason they’ve thrown so much support behind Adam and given him the freedom to make the album he wants.

^ See, this is also what I think with Adam. With all the hype that everyone seems to think RCA/19 are putting on Adam, Do you really think they would do this if Adams season 8 and presale numbers did not look good? What would they say If his albums pulls in less than 100K or even 200k?

“Adam Lambert, captured the nation’s imagination when he competed on the eighth season of ‘American Idol.’  During his ‘Idol’  journey, he sang songs from many different genres and impressed the judges every week with his ‘out there’  performances and tremendous vocals.

Adam has already conquered the Billboard charts, with multiple debuts on the Hot 100 and the Hot Digital Songs charts. His highly anticipated debut album, For Your Entertainment, on 19 Recordings/RCA, will be released on November 23rd. Adam also recorded ‘Time for Miracles’ , an original score, produced by Rob Cavallo, for the upcoming soundtrack of the motion picture ’2012″

On 19 entertainment website between Adam, Kris and Allison, Adams seems to be getting the bragging rights with how well he charted. This has always made me wonder who really won this thing and why no numbers seem to be release when it comes to Adam. I don’t think TPTB really cares how many power voting votes came in when Kris won but who had the potential to sell more Albums. Adams season 8 album was still charting in June when it was pulled of iTunes.

What would they say If his albums pulls in less than 100K or even 200k?

On 19 entertainment website between Adam, Kris and Allison, Adams seems to be getting the bragging rights with how well he charted. This has always made me wonder who really won this thing and why no numbers seem to be release when it comes to Adam

why do you keep doing this? i am not saying you can’t go ahead and hype adam up to where he’s not, but why? he sales so far should give some a reality check already.

That’s basically what I was getting at in the first post, though in fewer words, and I eventually added the caveat that it would affect his sales’ ¦ but not in a hugely substantial way that would keep him from rising right up the Billboard charts. The reasons are really to be found elsewhere.

She, and others, were still repeating the same refrain, so I tried different, more direct, verbage. I’m not sure it matters who said what, when. Isn’t it just that we agree on a point, and are both reinforcing it?

Hey, I’m wordy. Feel free to tl;dr if you don’t like it. I won’t be offended.

And no, it will not effect his sales in any meaningful way. At all. Any more than it will effect Lady GaGa or Britney or anyone else making dance pop. Gay or not, they wouldn’t buy his album. Wrong musical style. The real reasons are “elsewhere,” as you put it.

why do you keep doing this? i am not saying you can’t go ahead and hype adam up to where he’s not, but why? he sales so far should give some a reality check already.

Let it go. This happens every year that they don’t release numbers. It could happen at any stage too (6th vs 5th, etc). Let them live in their delusion. Hopefully they’ll come around in the future when they see the writing on the wall.

The advantage Adam has over Kris is that Kris’s votes were from casual viewers. All the voters from the eliminated idols are now back with their idols leaving Kris with the small fan base he had when it was down to the top 4. Kris has to work now for new fans. Adam gets the benefit of all the voters who cried SHAM when he lost.

I care. Because building an audience is necessary for him to continue to produce the music I want to hear AND the performances I want to go see. It doesn’t have to be stadium size audiences. But for the type of shows he wants to put on and I want to see, he needs a pretty darn good following who are willing to part with their money. That means a certain level of success. The bigger the success, the bigger the show.

But why does what you want matter in the greater scheme of things? Honestly, who cares what you want? This is about Adam’s career, and what he wants and needs. Are you reading his mind? In the meetings with his A&R? Can you be certain you know exactly what he has to have to be happy in his career?

His kind of show is usually put on in smaller venues, like clubs, bathhouses, and small theatres. All he has to do is sell enough to stay on a record label, any label, and he can have a solid career. It doesn’t have to RCA. He’s done it in medium and small venues before, and I’m sure he’d have no trouble doing it again, and rocking the house at the same time.

I can’t remember much about Blake or Jordin except they both opened with shitty numbers BUT I do remember the NY Daily News calling Blake’s album the best AI album yet. I went and listened to it after that because I was so intrigued and I thought it was pretty decent but not nearly as great as they called it. In the end reviews are pretty meaningless considering Daughtry’s debut and Carrie’s “Some Hearts” both got their share of being trashed in reviews.

so, if Adam is relegated to playing at “bathhouses” (wow,talk about predjudice!) given that he is charting way above kris in album and single, where will you folks have poor kris playing??

BootStar
11/11/2009 at 6:22 pm

His album IS the most anticipated of the year. Why? well, just like his run on AI everyone wanted to know what would Adam do this next?

Anticipated by whom? How exactly do we measure ‘anticipation levels’ ? Or do I need a paid subscription to those numbers too?

^The fans that voted for him who thought the whole thing was one big SHAM! I’m sure once they realize Adam is out there in full force they’ll be on board, not everyone knows he’s out there with a single.

And it warms my heart to know that Adam gets A LOT attention whether you love him or hate him. Even the ones that dislike him can’t stop talking about him.
Oh, and I also love how he’s called a faux “RAWK” God, when the real “Rock Gods” just love my BB to death.

I’m with the crowd that accepts these are the numbers, and that AO somehow would get its numbers counted. What gives me some pause is that AO released FYE on Friday, Oct 30, which means we should have seen some numbers for that weekend of sales in last week’s numbers and we didn’t (as far as I know.) So that makes me scratch my head in wonder about AO reporting single sales, particularly those representing “free” downloads (after paying $30 for the collector’s edition, that is. lol)

Anyway, I think we’re probably seeing the numbers, and I’m surprised, but seeing the “NEW” this week with a single rather than cumulative total, coupled with seeing no numbers last week, does appear odd to me…

so, if Adam is relegated to playing at ‘bathhouses’  (wow,talk about predjudice!)

Hey, Barry Manilow and Bette Midler started out playing at a bathhouse, it isn’t really that shabby -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2HwloXqo_U

Not sure if there are establishments like that any more though.

so, if Adam is relegated to playing at ‘bathhouses’  (wow,talk about predjudice!) given that he is charting way above kris in album and single, where will you folks have poor kris playing??

I think I’ve heard he’s going to be busking outside the nearest Starbucks. Maybe he can get a free coffee to bring to his bud over at the bathhouse. Goodness knows that you aren’t supposed drink bathwater.

Hot 100 numbers for Idols:

BILLBOARD HOT 100 – TOP 50
21 19 KELLY CLARKSON ALREADY GONE
…
27 21 CARRIE UNDERWOOD COWBOY CASANOVA

INTERESTING MOVES & DEBUTS
…
– 92 KRIS ALLEN LIVE LIKE WE’RE DYING
…
– 99 GLEE CAST FEATURING DEFYING GRAVITY

BUBBLING UNDER
…
– 7 ADAM LAMBERT FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT
– 9 CARRIE UNDERWOOD CHANGE

So that makes me scratch my head in wonder about AO reporting single sales, particularly those representing ‘free’  downloads (after paying $30 for the collector’s edition, that is. lol)

If you pay full price, you are buying an album and the single is just an advance. If you pay a 99/129 cent deposit on a pre-order, you are buying the single and making real no commitment to ever buy the album (you can cancel at any time prior to it being released).

Buying the single results in a single sale being counted. Buying an album result in an album sale being counted.

I don’t think it would be all that odd if most of the people who visited a formal fan-site might be more interested in buying the album than the single.

What makes everybody think the sales from AO are not included in the totals?

His album IS the most anticipated of the year. Why? well, just like his run on AI everyone wanted to know what would Adam do this next?

Well count me as one who didn’t want to know what Adam would do next. Not my cup of tea.

lulwut
11/11/2009 at 8:01 pm

What would they say If his albums pulls in less than 100K or even 200k?

On 19 entertainment website between Adam, Kris and Allison, Adams seems to be getting the bragging rights with how well he charted. This has always made me wonder who really won this thing and why no numbers seem to be release when it comes to Adam

why do you keep doing this? i am not saying you can’t go ahead and hype adam up to where he’s not, but why? he sales so far should give some a reality check already

Why? Because there seems to be a lot of hostility and resentment that Adam Lambert is getting, and one wonders if all these promos and attention and praises and HYPE were given to any other Idol, would their fans be crying not fair? If it isn’t your guy then the other guy will get the wrath from the other. The record labels are just doing their damn job.

But why does what you want matter in the greater scheme of things?
Honestly, who cares what you want? This is about Adam’s career, and what he wants and needs. Are you reading his mind? In the meetings with his A&R? Can you be certain you know exactly what he has to have to be happy in his career?

Wow. Well taking this one at a time.

“But why does what you want matter in the greater scheme of things?”

->Because I exist. Why shouldn’t what I want matter? What everyone wants matters to them. I’m not asking you to want the same thing I do. Chill out.

“Honestly, who cares what you want?”

->Again. I do. The question was posed who cares how well his music did. My answer then and now is: I care. I’m allowed to care. It isn’t a sin. I’m not asking you to want the same things I do.

“This is about Adam’s career, and what he wants and needs. Are you reading his mind? In the meetings with his A&R? Can you be certain you know exactly what he has to have to be happy in his career?”

-> This is what it is about for you. You appear to have determined that you want Adam to be happy and that being happy does not require his music to be a huge success. I make no assumptions as to what would make Adam happy nor does it concern me. Adam can take care of his own happiness. I do know that he has stated he wants to do big production shows and that I want to see them. That’s what I care about. Whether they or anything else would make him happy or what else he may want is besides the point for me. He isn’t my brother, my husband, my son, or my best friend. He’s a just a singer who puts on performances I enjoy and has publicly stated that he wants to put on big production shows.

why do you keep doing this? i am not saying you can’t go ahead and hype adam up to where he’s not, but why? he sales so far should give some a reality check already.

PLZ. I really think it is too early for all these reaction and it has been a week. His one week number is not bad at all. Especially if you consider how negative people are sadly against Adam & his music. Putting down his every action. Though everything is an really an uphill battle for Adam. AM sure he will prevail. It is good to be an Adam stan. Can’t wait for AMA.

Kirsten, I agree. What do you think about the fact that this week is the first week that numbers were reported for FYE even though it was available for download on AO Friday Oct 30? Does the fact that we didn’t get numbers last week for that weekend’s sales suggest that maybe AO is not getting its count to soundscan (or whatever?) I know that sounds a little crazy, but to me, so does not having Oct. 30 to Nov. 1 reported.

Any insights would be most appreciated. And, thanks!

P.S. What I also would appreciate would be getting those darn “roll over” ads about Pirate Radio (or what ever) off mjs!! Those things are frickin’ annoying… Anywho~

Though everything is an really an uphill battle for Adam

LOL! Why does anyone think that it’s any more an uphill battle for Adam than any other idol. They all start out with nothing and have to build a career. Sorry I don’t buy the poor little Adam thing. He’s had the hype since January that no other idol ever had so I don’t think he has it any harder than anybody else.

There is no way in hell that T4M got almost 50k sales and FYE got 18K in sales, I am not buying it for one second.

Though everything is an really an uphill battle for Adam

LOL! Why does anyone think that it’s any more an uphill battle for Adam than any other idol. They all start out with nothing and have to build a career. Sorry I don’t buy the poor little Adam thing. He’s had the hype since January that no other idol ever had so I don’t think he has it any harder than anybody else.

Totally agree. I love Adam but he hasn’t had any more of a battle than any other idol. For better or worse, he is definitely in the public eye more. But this is part of the persona that he is trying to cultivate. He may do very well. And I hope he does because I really, really want to see his shows. But it’s equally likely that America may not want and/or be ready for what Adam wants to give. That is not the fault of any up hill battle. His live performances (AMAs, GMA etc) and his first music video will be a major test of how well his vision will go over. But if it fails, it won’t be because he wasn’t given the opportunity.

That said, I think that for some people this translates to an uphill battle because he is trying to create a highly public and dramatic musical persona as opposed to other idols who have gone more mainstream, less theatrical routes. People who do the type of art Adam is doing often encounter ridicule. If the other idols attempted to do the same types of things they’d get similar responses.

There is no way in hell that T4M got almost 50k sales and FYE got 18K in sales, I am not buying it for one second.

TfM got a big splashy story on the entertainment shows. It also got a nice banner ad on iTunes for a few days. That and pent up demand could explain it.

If you do not believe the numbers, what happened to them? Did SoundScan, a subsidiary of Nielsen whose entire reputation for reporting numbers, lie about them? Did they inflate TfM’s numbers or deflate FYE’s numbers? Why would they do that?

Did Sony decide not to report them? Why would they do that when they reported numbers for Allison? Do they hate Adam? Why do they hate Adam? Did he piss them off or are they homophobes?

Did some dweeb in Sony computing services accidentally or on purpose leave a bug in that zeros out all sales for Adam? Will he get any royalties?

I’m curious. What happened to these sales if they occurred and we are not seeing them? Two independent sources of the data reported the same numbers. Therefore, I don’t think the SoundScan leaker or Brian can be believably accused of making them up.

If Sony noticed a HUGE error, why didn’t they post something to correct it?

Did Sony decide not to report them? Why would they do that when they reported numbers for Allison?

Was Allison’s single sold on her official website? I didn’t know that. I knew there was something weird with it showing up on ITUNES and then disappearing for several days as if it was put on there by accident. I thought it was only available on Amazon and ITUNES.

Did some dweeb in Sony computing services accidentally or on purpose leave a bug in that zeros out all sales for Adam? Will he get any royalties?

How are the numbers reported? Is there a software program that will send the data over to Soundscan? I’m just curious about the mechanics of it. Since I only buy music from ITUNES and Amazon, can you actually download music off of a Sony website? I am assuming you can purchase music from many artists official websites and not be redirected via link to ITUNES? If so, I assume there is software in place?

I think some folks would just like to know what the breakdown of that 18,000 is. How much was sold in the first two days off of AO and Amazon? Was is only 6,000 or so? I don’t think anyone is looking at a conspiracy, it’s just that the numbers are surprising based on the TFM numbers. I think most people thought the sales for the two singles would be similar that’s all.

Therefore, I don’t think the SoundScan leaker or Brian can be believably accused of making them up.

Maybe I need to read upthread, but I didn’t think anyone thought that Brian or Soundscan was making up numbers. In fact, Brian wrote in Idol Chatter that he thought Adam’s numbers were based on less than a week of sales. It was probably just an assumption he made and I haven’t been back to IDOL Chatter to see if he clarified that.

If Sony noticed a HUGE error, why didn’t they post something to correct it?

I think the numbers are probably accurate. If, for some reason, they forgot to add the 2 days of AO, it’s only a big deal for the hardcore fans so it’s not like it can’t be corrected next week.

By the way, who reports numbers to who. Does ITUNES report numbers to Sony? Or during the download, is the buyer is directed to a Sony computer and they track it that way and then Sony audits the numbers with the vendor, i.e. Amazon, Itunes, etc. Like I said, I’m just really curious on how the mechanics of this works.

I don’t think anyone is looking at a conspiracy, it’s just that the numbers are surprising based on the TFM numbers. I think most people thought the sales for the two singles would be similar that’s all.

I don’t see why it’s such a surprise that TfM sold more than FYE. The difference is simply the iTunes banners. Adam’s “hardcore” fans were aware of both and bought both. TfM, however, picked-up an additional 30K – these are likely sales to more casual fans of Idol who liked Adam or at least were interested in him, and thus bought the 2012 single when they were reminded to do so. There was no visibility for FYE in the iTunes store in it’s first week, so only the hardcore fans knew to buy it. It’s no surprise to me at all that FYE sold less than TfM. I see no indication that Sony didn’t report the AO.com sales, they have always reported to Soundscan in the past, and I really can think of no plausible business reason that they wouldn’t do so now.

erinnthered
11/11/2009 at 8:04 pm

Let it go. This happens every year that they don’t release numbers. It could happen at any stage too (6th vs 5th, etc). Let them live in their delusion. Hopefully they’ll come around in the future when they see the writing on the wall.

I don’t think it’s delusional to question the numbers released for fye. They simply don’t add up.

erinnthered
11/11/2009 at 8:16 pm

jms: I care. Because building an audience is necessary for him to continue to produce the music I want to hear AND the performances I want to go see. It doesn’t have to be stadium size audiences. But for the type of shows he wants to put on and I want to see, he needs a pretty darn good following who are willing to part with their money. That means a certain level of success. The bigger the success, the bigger the show.

But why does what you want matter in the greater scheme of things? Honestly, who cares what you want? This is about Adam’s career, and what he wants and needs. Are you reading his mind? In the meetings with his A&R? Can you be certain you know exactly what he has to have to be happy in his career?

I thought jms made some cogent points. And it seems she only wants success for Adam which is what he’s publicly stated he wants for himself. I guess I don’t understand your comments.

Playing the devil’s advocate here but did anybody think that maybe the sales are correct and Adam isn’t selling like everyone thought he would?

Let the conspiracy theories begin. LOL!

I don’t think it’s delusional to question the numbers released for fye. They simply don’t add up.

How so? Soundscan has no interest in fudging numbers. They aren’t fans. And yes, Sony will report sales from their website to Soundscan, just like iTunes or Borders or Amazon. They want their artists to have big numbers.

Perhaps Adam is selling CDs out of the trunk of his car. Those would not count.

Playing the devil’s advocate here but did anybody think that maybe the sales are correct and Adam isn’t selling like everyone thought he would?

I think most people feel like the numbers are correct, but they are surprising based on TFM. And even if somehow the AO numbers weren’t reported, I don’t think they would have added radically to the totals. Adam and Kris’s numbers are very similar. I just thought both of them were at least half as popular with the AI fandom as the Davids, and I expected their first week sales for their debut numbers to be around 50,000. Adam got that with TFM, which seemed to me to be about right.

I felt Kris’s ITUNES pass threw a wrench into the works and skewed his numbers. So perhaps Adam’s delux CD did the same. Now that I have said that, you know their first week album numbers are going to be low and that theory will go out the window.:)

Perhaps Adam is selling CDs out of the trunk of his car. Those would not count

lol too funny. thank you.

I do believe the numbers. I think a good part of them being lower is the giving away of FYE with the purchase of the collectors ed. on the AO website and of the deluxe album on itunes. As the most dedicated fans are likely the buy the album, those sales were lost to the single. That alone could account for the lower single sales. We’ll have a better idea if/when Sony reports how many units of the Collector’s Editon were sold (or how many units of the deluxe album on itunes as it did the same to my understanding). Since these give aways don’t count, the number isn’t that shocking.

I’m taking the hopeful route of thinking that 50,000-18,000 = 32,000 collector edition and deluxe albums pre-ordered through AO and itunes. Given their prices ($25 and $17, respectively), this is a good amount of revenue which would bode well for RCA’s continued future support. For future support, revenue is more important than units sold. This doesn’t count Amazon album pre-orders or the itunes regular albums so hopefully those numbers will be decent enough to make the peeps who watch the units sold happy. In the meantime, I’m much happier thinking the glass is half full. If someone comes along and tips it over later, so be it. I’ve still smiled a lot in the meantime.

Kirsten, I’m sorry no disrespect to you, but I really don’t want to hear what you have to say, you have lost all credibility with me, I can no longer hear you with any real objectivity

How can Kirsten lose any credibility when she gets all the sales information posted on this blog from OFFICIAL sources? Oh yeah, cause she said something not so positive about your idol (which by the way have all come true-the excuses etc. about a certain overhyped single not selling much). Get over it.

Go Kirsten! I’m sure everyone here (well, almost everyone) appreciates all you do for this site! <3

So, the 18k sales do not include sales from AO Collectors CD and iTunes deluxe , is that what I’m hearing? When I ordered both mine I received 2 singles, those were not counted?. If this is the case than I feel a whole lot better. Personally I think Kris will be a single seller were as Adam is more of an Album seller. Adam has a much more older demographic group of people who only like to buy Albums. For his younger demo they are more likely to buy the singles. This is a hard call because with Adam most
everyone really want the whole album.

T4M has had no real promo in the last 2 weeks and no air play at all, does any one think that it is still Adams fan base buying this? The video was given away free last week, yet he still sold 9K.

“So, the 18k sales do not include sales from AO Collectors CD and iTunes deluxe , is that what I’m hearing?”

any sales of the single via the itunes deluxe preorder that went up THIS week will count in NEXT weeks sales numbers that come out, not LAST weeks numbers. NEXT week we will have the numbers from THIS week.

frogcooke
11/12/2009 at 12:55 am

‘So, the 18k sales do not include sales from AO Collectors CD and iTunes deluxe , is that what I’m hearing?’ 

any sales of the single via the itunes deluxe preorder that went up THIS week will count in NEXT weeks sales numbers that come out, not LAST weeks numbers. NEXT week we will have the numbers from THIS week.

Thanks

So, the 18k sales do not include sales from AO Collectors CD and iTunes deluxe , is that what I’m hearing?

By “deluxe” do you mean iTunes Pass? Kris doesn’t have a deluxe version of his album, other than the iTunes Pass, as far as I can tell. As others have explained, the Idols have had album preorders in prior years, so we know how those work. You pay for, and get, the single now, and the single counts and is reported to Soundscan and Billboard. When the album is released, you essentially do the “complete my album” thing and receive the rest of the album, and are charged for the rest. The single reverts back to being an album track, so it’s taken away from the single’s total sales number at that point, and the album sale is counted instead. You can cancel the order any time before its release, but you you can’t return the single, so it just stays counted as a single in that case.

The pass and collector’s edition options are new this year for Idols, AFAIK, so there’s a little more confusion about how they work for Soundscan purposes. The consensus seems to be that, since you’re immediately charged for the whole album, it only counts as an album sale, even though you get the single immediately (but not free, as people keep saying- you just paid for it as part of the album!).

Is there an option to cancel either the pass or the CE, and get a refund for the items you haven’t received yet? If so, I imagine the single would be counted as a single sale at that point.

Kirsten, I continue to be amazed at your knowledge of numbers and ability to use a crystal ball.

Can anyone answer the question I asked upthread of why the reported sales for FYE are “NEW” for this (last) week when AO was selling for a portion of the week before?

Can anyone answer the question I asked upthread of why the reported sales for FYE are ‘NEW’  for this (last) week when AO was selling for a portion of the week before?

Nobody here seems to know for sure. But Kirsten postulated that it could be due to Sony’s reporting method. They may only report one day a week and bundle all the sales from the previous seven days into that report.

FYE down to #36 on itunes

seems to have peaked this time at #25

Go Kirsten! I’m sure everyone here (well, almost everyone) appreciates all you do for this site! <3

I’d like to add my two thumbs up for Kirsten!!! :D

LOL at someone saying “Kirsten, no disrespect to you” and then being disrespectful. IMO, Kirsten is allowed her opinion just like any other poster here. She posts these numbers as a favor and I appreciate all the info and the laughs she provides. Thanks, Kirsten :-)

Thanks jms! Appreciate the help.