Idol Producers Attempt to Block Debut Album from Josiah Leming

I just unleashed a nice string of four-letter words at my computer screen over this. If this story is true, it really sucks. It’s not like it was a big secret that Josiah was recording an album with Warner Brothers. What, did they see his EP in the Top 100 on iTunes and just now realize that Josiah isn’t still living in his car? I hope Josiah wins this battle and gets a lot of free publicity in the process.

This is utter bullshit! WTF?!!? I hope Josiah’s lawyers are able to protect him and he’s allowed to release his music.

Josiah will win, and he should. I also hope that this hissy fit is just that and that they don’t play hardball with this kid. I don’t understand, any success Josiah has initially should only be for the good of the idol brand, after all they can still jump on the ‘we discovered him bandwagon’.

What I don’t understand is why not stop the EP?

Anyway anyone want to make some “FREE JOSIAH” t-shirts?

Aw, man. That sucks. The Idol Machine is really, really evil. And greedy.

VERY dumb. If I didn’t care about the release before, AI Producers’ reaction makes me think I should. I’m sure it will be the best PR Josiah gets!!

Well, I do hope that they relent. But this is one very good reason for contestants not to go around bashing the show. The fact that he has a record coming out has been a known fact for quite some time. People have been able to hear his stuff on myspace. And I’m sure that the Idol producers knew about it and (I would think) had also heard the songs that had been posted. Josiah said a few negative things about the show earlier, e.g., that it was just glorified karaoke, and they did nothing. But then he came out and basically asserted that the show was rigged. And now they go after him. I seriously doubt that that is a coincidence.

Just because you can and want to say something negative does not mean that you should say it. A few of us in the headlines post the other day said that Josiah’s statement was a turnoff, which is one reason not to go around saying that sort of thing. But the fact that Idol has leverage to come after him is another reason that perhaps Josiah didn’t consider.

My guess is that there will be a settlement of some sort, and the record label/Josiah may have an argument for waiver/laches (basically, that Idol almost certainly knew of the recording and waited until they’d gotten this far into the record release process to raise the contract). But this could get ugly, because from what we know, the Idol contract is pretty damn strong.

Well that will stop a whole lot of talented people from ever going on the show. If they can own you even if you never make the actual competition, why would you bother? Stupid move.

Well, Josiah just banked thousands of new sales. What an incredible opportunity to gain tons of publicity– allege receipt of a threatening letter from American Idol, and then have American Idol offer “no comment”– all while bringing atttention back to the “I had no home and lived in my car and my mother is terminally ill” factor. I’m just sayin’….

(I should add, the letter probably is real, but Josiah’s team is knocking this tee ball out of the park. Not only will he “win” as AI backs down claiming some “misunderstanding”, but he’ll gain legions of sympathizers and new fans in the process)….

I’m not saying I agree with the contract. But I do feel if you sign a contract, you need to be prepared to honor it. 19 aren’t bad guys for expecting the same.

Having said that, I expect the matter to be settled and the cd to be released as scheduled.

I always assumed that the contract for contestants who don’t make the Top 24 wasn’t very restrictive (really, I though it was probably just – don’t spoil the Top 24, don’t talk about the show before it airs, etc.) Josiah has had nothing to do with them since what, December or January? If they can prohibit him from releasing an album a whole year later, then exactly how long is he expected to be under their thumb?

Well that will stop a whole lot of talented people from ever going on the show. If they can own you even if you never make the actual competition, why would you bother?

Would we be talking about Josiah Lemming’s CD if he had not appeared on AI?

I don’t think the kids starting out on AI would mind that there is a chance that in the future 19E might try to stop the CD they will be putting out with their new record contract until 19E gets first rights to it. Josiah Lemming wouldn’t even have a record deal if he hadn’t appeared on AI.

I’m not saying 19E is right, but they may be sick of hearing this kid whine about the show and producers while benefitting from the exposure they gave him.

There are two sides to every story.

Ah, didn’t TPTB do the refusal thing when they didn’t put him on the show? HELLO!! I am not a fan of how he runs off at the mouth and I find it unfortunate that TPTB are going after a guy a year after he got the boot, but it may just be the PR timing of Josiah’s people. Best time to give the kid a media boost is when his EP is out there and when everyone’s had a taste of the album and really want to hear it. Another knock against TPTB, like they needed more. This should and probably will, turn some people off from ever even auditioning for the show.

Is Cook’s CD scheduled for January? Because the timing of this cease and disist order is off — they should have sent him a letter the second he got signed or the second they knew a CD was in the works.

They can’t seriously be concerned that Josiah would outsell Cook? That makes no sense because Cook will have the idol machine behind him and he should have a juggernaut in record sales. (This has no reflection on the quality of whatever Cook’s CD will sound like, just looking at logistics) If it’s not Cook’s CD is it another AI 19E-signed idol?

They can’t seriously be afraid of Josiah, can they?

And DUH! the show is rigged! Seriously wish these people would watch the show before they audition for it…

p.s. I think if 19E really sent this letter, they will pursue it. These guys don’t play around because it would set a precedent for other future idols.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think the kids starting out on AI would mind that there is a chance that in the future 19E might try to stop the CD they will be putting out with their new record contract until 19E gets first rights to it. Josiah Lemming wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t even have a record deal if he hadnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t appeared on AI.

I don’t know. Having those kinds of restrictions on your career when you didn’t even get a chance to go very far sounds pretty off putting to me. Especially if you are a singer/songwriter. Why would you want someone else to have that much control over your music, and get so little in return? I’m sure some fame hounds will go on the show anyway of course, but a whole lot of others just might think twice.

I don’t think that it has a thing to do with concern about Josiah’s sales in January versus any of the 19 signees’ sales in the fall of 2008. (Although I suspect that his sales might end up being more robust than KLC’s.) If I had to guess, this has three possible roots: (1) anger about Josiah’s recent statements, (2) the desire to squeeze some $$$ out of Josiah/WB; and/or (3) the desire to flex the muscle of the contract to avoid what 19 views as future problems with contestants.

From the LA Interview linked above:

“And of the show that brought him to the world’s notice, he added: “The producers pretty much control everything. You know, it’s all kind of rigged, and hands are coming in from places you don’t see. You just see the hand. It’s a dirty hand. And you don’t want to eat the food that that hand touches.”

BWAH!!!! I love this kid!!!!

Is Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s CD scheduled for January?

No, but Kelly or DAUGHTRY’s may be. So they must be concerned Josiah will outsell them.

Josiah has been kind of “maverick-y” all along. The kid was posting on VFTW before his audition aired. They’ve had plenty of chances to flex their muscles and it looks like maybe he waited until they could hurt him the most. I ultimately think that the album will be released on schedule, but it might be a bumpy road.

I hope that Josiah will be able to get his LP out, but I wish contestants would stop dissing Idol openly unless they’re gonna write a tell-all book with juicy details. Now I’m left wondering about the dirty hand and what it did. I mean, if you dare to say it’s rigged, please say WHY and HOW it’s rigged too. kthxbai.

ETA: Thanks for the correction, widz. It’s Nov 18 in the US.

I think 19 sent a letter to him because of the negative comments he said about the show..it’s like eating the hand that feeds you.

I know that he didn’t go through Top 24..but he gained fans because of Idol (I am one), and seeing him talk about Idol negatively was a turn-off for me, personally.

Now Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m left wondering about the dirty hand and what it did. I mean, if you dare to say ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s rigged, please say WHY and HOW ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s rigged too.

Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s CD is coming out November 17th.

Yeah, we need answers to the WHY and HOW! LOL.

David Cook’s CD is coming out November 18th in the US.
November 17th in Singapore (got this from Sony BMG Singapore)

And what financial benefit has Josiah received from American Idol, aside from a free trip to Hollywood? I’m talking about the actual financial exchange, not the “publicity” benefits.

Doesn’t there have to be “adequate consideration” to have a binding contract? Other AI castoffs have released CDs without intimidation, haven’t they? Of course most of them are indie – sell out of the trunk projects.

They must be really afraid that he’ll open up and tell.

Here’s MTV’s take on the story (with a nice little plug for the EP):

MTV on Josiah

Kelly’s CD is scheduled for February and Daughtry’s later on in the year. January is actually a pretty lousy time to release a CD due to everyone being wiped out from Christmas shopping and sales are generally down. I just can’t see Josiah being a huge threat to the David’s or Kelly or Daughtry, he may outsell KLC though.

I remember Elliott saying that Simon Fuller was very nice to him when they discussed him not signing with 19XYZ and Simon told him his only request was that he release his album after Taylor, Chris, Kat and Kellie released theirs..which seemed fair to me. But that was a Top 12 contestant, how long can they possibly hold back someone that didn’t even make it to the Top 24?

Getting the opportunity to try out and to be on TV is probably adequate consideration. If they get out of the contract, I seriously doubt that it would be grounds of inadequate consideration.

I also this is personal and not merely a legal issue.

Phil Stacey, Bucky Covington and Elliot Yamin were all in pretty much the same position as Josiah. They signed with management and labels outside of the 19Evil/SonyBMG family. They got to release their albums in the same time frame that Josiah is planning. And as far as we know, they didn’t get any legal threats to cease and desist.

AI can argue they have legal rights but it’s pretty freakin’ clear they are cherry picking their legal battles to those they consider threats or consider “uppity”.

Hmmm. I can’t believe that Warner’s lawyers weren’t aware of any contract restrictions Josiah may have had on his ability to release an album. I smell publicity stunt. I say that and I’m a fan of his.

ETA: And, he’s not the only person who didn’t make the top 24 to get a record deal.

I agree that there is probably some cherry-picking here, but my bet is that each of those contestants that you cite, snuffles, probably got permission to sign, which, if the articles are to be believed, Josiah did not. I especially doubt that Elliott did not dot the i’s and cross the t’s—he and the show are obviously quite friendly. We know that AI will waive rights early—Michael Johns has made clear that Idol let him out of the contract early so that he could release in January.

Clearly, none of us would have ever even heard the name Josiah Lemming unless he had been on AI.

Put yourself in the producer’s shoes…..he got a lot of airtime, got incredible exposure for his music that most struggling artists would kill for, he signed a contract, and now he’s constantly bitching about them……I don’t blame them. He’s not under this contract forever, but he did agree to the terms. He would still be at his job taping boxes together without AI. Or — he might have quit that job, be laying on his couch, and bitching about his box-taping boss.

I was just being sarcastic. No way do I think he would outsell them, or that anyone needs to be reminded a reality show is somehow rigged.

After Clay got a good lawyer to get out of contract, they tightened their contracts for contestants to close that loophole. Then after William Hung started making $$$ they then redid their contestant contracts more for those that don’t even make the cut but appear on TV yadda yadda…..they don’t want anyone getting $$ due to appearing on their show even briefly. However, if they’re agreeable and who knows what contractual agreements are waived/percentages etc. they seem to release certain ones to other choices. Pretty much if you go on the show, they own ya. Fair. No. But you DO sign off on that. Evil yes. And they have powwwwerrrrrrr.

I really don’t have a lot of sympathy for the kids who sign up at this point. Seriously, if they did their research, they would know the ropes. It’s no secret. It’s like selling your soul to the devil.

Is it fair? Maybe not. But I guess they feel it’s worth it.

I’m not sure it’s AI’s responsibility to inform Josiah he’s not fulfilling his contract until he’s about to release an album. He should know that.

I don’t get why they have not released Josiah. Other contestants were released after the tour was over. Why keep a longer hold on contestants that did not even make it past Hollywood? I agree with dahirsh & Justsayin’, if it had not been for AI no one would have heard of Josiah. Josiah did sign a contract and at the time he signed it, he knew what he was getting in to. That’s not to say I think he should not be released from it, because I do. It serves no purpose to keep him in one if they are not going to sign him.

AI has produced enough *stars* now that they could run several hour long shows a year of past talent. I am not talking about just the *winner’s*. The viewer’s would get to see their favorites once more, the artist’s would get some great publicity for their cd’s and the producer’s would get great ratings & more million dollar commercials. Ryan could talk to each of them see what they are doing since Idol. Win, win.

I serioulsy doubt Josiah’s CD will do much anyway. No offense, but he sang one song well, and then tanked on every other set. His fake accent is irritating.

Idol should let him have is go, though. Everyone deserves an opportunity.

They own you, but for how long? Josiah’s WB contract may be within the bounds of reasonable “indentured servitude”, and perhaps 19A-Z is owed a big fat “finder’s fee”. But after the passage of sufficient time, it’s no longer conscionable to hold someone cut in Hollywood week to the “first refusal”. I certainly don’t know what that time period is.

The lawsuit would be worth it to have the contract disclosed.

I don’t understand this. If you make the top 24, you are not allowed to sign a contract with any other label until 3 months after the finale. Is 19Alphabet actually telling us that if you just audition, you can’t sign a contract for even longer? Talk about high risk with low odds of success. No wonder only 300 people showed up at one set of auditions this year.

I canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t be the only person that can put myself in the producerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s shoesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦..he got a lot of airtime, got incredible exposure for his music that most struggling artists would kill for, he signed a contract, and now heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s constantly bitching about them

I cannot put myself in the producers shoes. I think they are greedy (expletive deleted). The rate for a single 30 second ad on the show is almost a million dollars. They more than recouped their investment in showing Josiah already just from the 30 second ads they sold during his tenure on the show. He was good TV. People were yapping about him all over. Would anybody even care about this show if interesting people weren’t on it? If talented people didn’t show up, they wouldn’t get a million dollars every 30 seconds. They make enough money. They don’t have to badger some also-ran they discarded 10 months ago. If Josiah wasn’t so talented, he wouldn’t have a contract now. The history of AI is littered with personalities that got a lot of coverage and now have no contract. There is no guarantee. This makes AI look incredibly petty, greedy and creepy. IMO

Further, I’m sorry that their little feelings have been hurt by somebody saying rude things about them (good thing they don’t read here because my comments alone would send their seemingly fragile egos off to therapy for years). But, they make millions (if not billions) off of these kids and they have no problem going on every talk show and talking to every media outlet calling them everything from ugly to boring to talentless to whatever (lest we forget how sagging ratings have been blamed on the Season 7 and Season 6 Idols being so boring). So, I cannot weep for these poor producers when the tables are turned on them.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t blame them. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not under this contract forever, but he did agree to the terms.

How long are these terms? It’s only 3 months for the Top 24. Why such long terms for people who don’t even make the show and have such long odds at success? AI needs to be fair. These deals don’t need to be so Faustian.

From a legal point of view, Josiah should know where he stands and so should Warner. If they don’t, then they’re foolish. I’m still thinking this is a publicity stunt. I would love to see the contract, though.

Hapi,

You just made me remember something. Back in Season 3 my friend auditioned and got as far as the judges. A bunch of us went along with her as support and act as her on screen “possee”. The AI producers made us all sign releases to allow them to use any material they taped on air. All of us hammed it up big time and consquently clips of all of us were aired on several occassions (my friend was even featured in a pre-season commercial!).

Anyhoo, a few years later, I was talking to a friend who worked for CAA (the talent agency that has a deal with AI) about my AI experience. He told me that the release I signed was really a contract and that AI/19Evil had the right to stake any legal claim on me for up to THREE YEARS if I so happened to enter into the entertainment business and started making money.

He said they could legally argue that they had first rights of refusal on me because of what I signed. I had NO idea at the time when I signed.

It makes you wonder what kind of fine print they have that your average “kid” or even adult wouldn’t understand the consequences of if they didn’t have a lawyer by their side explaining it to them.

Upon further consideration and remembering past references, I too think this may just be a publicity stunt. If it is, good on him. He’s learning the ropes well. I truly believe that he will release his cd in January. I love his EP….

And what financial benefit has Josiah received from American Idol, aside from a free trip to Hollywood? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m talking about the actual financial exchange, not the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“publicityà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  benefits.

Just the fact that we are talking about this guy, and he has an EP out now, and a cd coming soon is an indication of the financial benefit Josiah has received.

I am a fan, but I never understand all of the bitching and moaning from past contestants. The show is what it is, it’s a freaking teevee show. And as for his rigged statements, manipulation is one thing, and rigging is another. I’ve never seen or heard a good example of how idol is rigged, otherwise Daughtry would have won season 5, and Jordin would not have won season 6.

I would love to see the contract, though.

Yep, I wonder what it covers..especially since Josiah didn’t even get into the Top 24..

How long are these terms? Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only 3 months for the Top 24. Why such long terms for people who donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t even make the show and have such long odds at success? AI needs to be fair. These deals donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t need to be so Faustian.

This is exactly why I think it’s a stunt. If it’s only 3 months for the top 24 why would it be for someone who didn’t make it past that round? I think that this is doing exactly what Josiah wanted it to do. Rile a few people, and keep people talking about him. I love it!

It would be funny if this were all some publicity stunt.

WB dude: “We want Josiah to get some more AI press, but we also want him to burnish his credentials as a real artist.”
AI dude: “How about if he hires a really good producer, does co-writes with some really impressive people with cred, and goes around talking about how the record will be amazing?”
WB dude: “Nope. Cook’s already got that scheme locked up. How about if he goes around badmouthing the show?”
AI dude: “Not sure we like that.”
WB dude: “Here’s some cash.”
AI dude: “Okay!”
WB dude: “Even better—let’s have AI make a fuss about the contract. People will rally around the kid!”
AI dude: “Not sure we like that.”
WB dude: “Here’s some cash.”
AI dude: “Okay!”

This is exactly why I think ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a stunt. If ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only 3 months for the top 24 why would it be for someone who didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t make it past that round? I think that this is doing exactly what Josiah wanted it to do. Rile a few people, and keep people talking about him. I love it!

And why wouldn’t they block his EP if they still had first rights of refusal?

Plus, the original NY Post article was extremely histrionic. I don’t think Josiah has been homeless for quite some time.

I don’t think we’re getting the full story, yet. And no one knows how their contract works. (If they tell how the show is rigged, they’d be sued for 5 million dollars, that I’m pretty clear about.) I say it’s a publicity stunt.

Anyone wanna see the audition contract? I have it.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t understand this. If you make the top 24, you are not allowed to sign a contract with any other label until 3 months after the finale. Is 19Alphabet actually telling us that if you just audition, you canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t sign a contract for even longer? Talk about high risk with low odds of success.

That’s exactly what I’m trying to say. This is all about William Hung, if you ask me. The greedy bastards want a piece of everything. And you know what? That is fine. But don’t do it in a way that gives you total control over people’s lives for a ridiculously long time. Josiah got exposure, sure. But 19 got ratings and buzz off of him. Put a finders fee clause in or something, don’t tell people they cannot have careers without your permission indefinitely. Freaking ridiculous
.

They must be really afraid that heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll open up and tell.

They may be trying to frighten him into shutting his trap.

I agree with Kirsten. It’s definitely a two way street. TPTB made plenty of money off of Josiah. And who is to say that Josiah would not have eventually gotten signed by some other means? He’s only a teenager, he hadn’t been pursuing music for all that long. Idol doesn’t deserve 100% of the credit for Josiah’s success.

ETA: ^^^TPTB may also want a piece of the action at this point…

Whhhhaaaaaattttt?!! This is ridiculous!

I don’t get why they would be worried about Josiah selling more cd’s or EP’s than one of their signed artists at all. Or if his is coming out at the same time. If you like Josiah, you’re gonna buy his music. And if you like one of AI’s signed artists, you’re gonna buy their music too.

And I agree that Josiah and Warner would be aware of any contract stipulations preventing him from making a cd. Especially with the industry where it is today.

If it is a publicity stunt – Way To Go Josiah!

I agree with Kirsten. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s definitely a two way street. TPTB made plenty of money off of Josiah. And who is to say that Josiah would not have eventually gotten signed by some other means? Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only a teenager, he hadnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t been pursuing music for all that long. Idol doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t deserve 100% of the credit for Josiahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s success.

Of course they don’t. But that’s not the point, as far as I’m concerned. He may be a teenager, but his record company isn’t. IF he’s still under contract, they should know it. If AI is trying to scare him with little or no contractual right, they know that too.

Anyone wanna see the audition contract? I have it.

Does it mention how long they are prisoner to AI?

Also this is interesting:

If they tell how the show is rigged, theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d be sued for 5 million dollars, that Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m pretty clear about.

Now I have heard the figure of 5 million tossed around if they talked about the interworkings of the show, but rigged?

Anyone wanna see the audition contract? I have it.

Is it recent? It’s changed a lot over the years. If it’s that copy of the contract from S1/2 that was posted on Salon a couple of years ago…I’d say that contract is out of date.

Sadly, if it is a publicity stunt, it’s not making me want to buy the album either way.

Yes it’s the super old one, they must have changed it a lot. Especially after William Hung, I’m still hearing his name in the news…

Does it mention how long they are prisoner to AI?

Nah, it’s just for audition so. However I never really read through it since I don’t plan auditioning for AI. Wouldn’t explaining how this show is rigged require confidential information? Even if not, this is also in it, “You further agree not to make disparaging remarks about the Program or any elements thereof.”

Gwen, ditto.

Thanks ellisad!

You’re welcome~

But that’s not the point

I’m responding to the thinking that Josiah somehow owes TPTB his life and should fall into line gratefully. I’m just making the point that Josiah was good TV, and that TPTB has certainly made money off of Josiah.

It may very well be a publicity stunt, but I do know that when 19 threatens people they throw EVERYTHING they possibly can against the wall to see if it can stick. I know this from experience, when I posted spoilers during Season 6. They literally threatened me with criminal action. The few lawyers I talked to who looked at the letter advised me to back off.

Not only would it be interesting to see the contract, but I would LOVE to see the letter they sent to Josiah.

I am not a fan of AI or 19E but if someone chooses to sign a contract with them that individual should be prepared to follow the terms of that contract. Is 19E being nasty because of the high profile LA Times article in which Lemming trashed AI? Maybe. But remember, the US Constitution was ultimately created so that contracts could be enforced. We are a nation built on laws, and even though some may view AI/19E as heavy handed and greedy, they deserve the right to have their contracts enforced.

Another thing on the timing: Yes, the record is scheduled to come out in January, almost a year after Hollywood week aired. But the recording contract was definitely signed within three months of the finale. It has been made very clear by Michael Johns and others that to get the freedom to start recording in time to get a record out in the fall or early winter after your Idol season, you have to sign with 19 or get a waiver. It sounds like Josiah did neither.

I totally agree with Brewster.

No matter what the terms of the contract he signed, whether any of us would look at it and say “no way I’d sign that, it’s too restrictive” he signed it. And if 19 did not chose to enforce all contracts it would lead them wide open for anyone who wanted out.

But I also can’t see how people who only made it to Hollywood could have a more restrictive contract than the top 24

It may very well be a publicity stunt, but I do know that when 19 threatens people they throw EVERYTHING they possibly can against the wall to see if it can stick. I know this from experience, when I posted spoilers during Season 6. They literally threatened me with criminal action. The few lawyers I talked to who looked at the letter advised me to back off.

I remember that. However, I think these are two vastly different situations. I just can’t believe a major label would sign Josiah if they didn’t think he was free of other contractual obligations. I will be very shocked if his album doesn’t come out as planned (and I’ll buy it). If it doesn’t, they failed to follow due dilligence.

ETA: Does anyone know how far Colbie Caillat made it?

Colbie Caillat auditioned for Idol? I never heard that before.

Isn’t that Colbie Caillat…didn’t make through audition?

Colbie auditioned, but she never made it past the stadium cattle call.

You know, a former idol contestant could sure make a lot of money by selling a copy of the contract to someone anonymously.

I just can’t believe a major label would sign Josiah if they didn’t think he was free of other contractual obligations.

I’m sure Josiah’s record label believed he was free. That’s why I’d be interested in reading the letter. Their threats probably aren’t straightforward. And even if their case ultimately has no merit, 19 has the muscle to make it difficult for Josiah and his label, along the way.

I don’t think they had a case against me either, but it would have taken forever and lots of money to sort through, which is why I was advised to back off.

Didn’t a couple of Mj posters audition recently? That might clear up at least a little of the questions we all seem to have.

Warner Brothers probably have just as much power and leverage as 19Evil – if not more. This should be interesting.

I think they get different contracts when they go to Hollywood…

Just wondering…I thought Josiah had moved back into his mother’s house…? Or, was I dreaming?

Warner Brothers probably have just as much power and leverage as 19Evil – if not more. This should be interesting.

I didn’t have the resources to fight 19. Warner bros/Time Warner does, of course. But 19/CKX is a pretty powerful entity as well. If it eventually comes down to a battle, it would definitely be a goliath vs. goliath kinda deal.

ETA:

Just wonderingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦I thought Josiah had moved back into his motherà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s houseà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦? Or, was I dreaming?

Josiah hasn’t been homeless in ages.

Josiah hasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t been homeless in ages.

Thanks. Just wondered about that opening paragraph from the NYP.

The whole poor boy who’s mother has cancer and lived in a car and didn’t make to top 24 and now the bad guys are going after him, just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. It’s like they want everyone to pity him and go buy his music. And this comes in the same week is EP is available. Quite the coincidence.
Talk about publicity stunt.

The kid has faked lots of things since he was on the show (even the accent is fake), so I have problems believing most of the things he says.
And if it’s indeed in the contract that he can’t release an album next year, than what’s there to discuss? Next time don’t sign it.

What an incredible opportunity to gain tons of publicityà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ allege receipt of a threatening letter from American Idol, and then have American Idol offer à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“no commentà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ all while bringing atttention back to the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“I had no home and lived in my car and my mother is terminally illà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  factor. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m just sayinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

(I should add, the letter probably is real, but Josiahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s team is knocking this tee ball out of the park. Not only will he à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“winà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  as AI backs down claiming some à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“misunderstandingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , but heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll gain legions of sympathizers and new fans in the process)à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

This!

Fascinating discussion.

the release I signed was really a contract and that AI/19Evil had the right to stake any legal claim on me for up to THREE YEARS if I so happened to enter into the entertainment business and started making money.

^^That? Is seriously F’d up! But that said, even if Josiah had no idea what he was getting into, I can’t believe that Warner didn’t have lawyers who combed through this sneaky contract before signing the kid.

They may be trying to frighten him into shutting his trap.

I feel like that may be it as well, but is it worth it? Josiah’s bitching was a little annoying, but is it so much worse than what’s already been said? This just makes AI/19 look bad, and if it turns into to a big 19 vs Time Warner brawl, it’s just gonna get uglier, to the extent that smoking gun or TMZ would get their hands on inside info, which is the kind of thing that actually has the potential to damage the AI franchise, unlike a few petty comments by a kid who’s releasing a CD.

ETA:

(I should add, the letter probably is real, but Josiahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s team is knocking this tee ball out of the park. Not only will he à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“winà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  as AI backs down claiming some à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“misunderstandingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , but heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll gain legions of sympathizers and new fans in the process)à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

Hmm, upon re-reading, you may be onto something. I mean, what if all 19 wanted to do was to scare Josiah into shutting up about Idol by sending a sternly worded letter, and Warner just ran with it to make it into a big deal about stopping the CD, etc.? That would explain the big stink from Josiah’s rep and the no-comment radio silence from 19, because while they did send a letter, they didn’t anticipate this reaction, and are still regrouping before making a statement? I mean, that scenario assumes a major idiot move by 19… but out of the realm of possibility.

Lastly:

(Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve never seen or heard a good example of how idol is rigged, otherwise [...] Jordin would not have won season 6.

Really? I wasn’t watching regularly, but I thought the producers liked her fine. Who was TCO last season?

Always read the fine print…..always.

Tsk.

I remember that. However, I think these are two vastly different situations. I just canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t believe a major label would sign Josiah if they didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think he was free of other contractual obligations.

Contracts are not always as clear-cut as one party might think. Look at the recent “Watchmen” controversy. Warner Brothers spent millions making a movie believing that it held the movie rights and Twentieth Century Fox waited until the movie was finished before trying to block release of the movie because they believe they own some rights to the movie. One of them must be wrong.

Their threats probably arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t straightforward. And even if their case ultimately has no merit, 19 has the muscle to make it difficult for Josiah and his label, along the way.

It could be that. VFTW has also apparently been threatened many times. Sometimes, a threat of a lawsuit is enough. Perhaps they just want Warners to get worried that Josiah is a risk so they may invest less in promoting him.

To a certain extent, I can see why 19Alphabet would like to see Josiah fail. If they discard somebody in the audition rounds and that person becomes a success (still a very, very long shot for Josiah), that makes them look a little bit incompetent. After all, they put through people like Sanjaya and other fodder. So, I can see how 19Alphabet may want to make other labels think twice about signing one of their rejectees. Perhaps it’s not just about Josiah. Perhaps it’s about all future auditionees. Simon/Paula/Randy are trumpeted as these amazing judges of talent. They can’t have too many failed auditionees being successes. At least if America doesn’t vote for somebody, they can blame America “for getting it wrong”. What are you going to do?

Maybe. But remember, the US Constitution was ultimately created so that contracts could be enforced. We are a nation built on laws, and even though some may view AI/19E as heavy handed and greedy, they deserve the right to have their contracts enforced.

I did not realize the US Constitution was all about enforcing induntured servitude. Huh. I learn things every day. I thought it was about setting the governance rules for a new and inspired nation.

You can’t enforce contracts that are not fair. The courts overturn contracts all the time which are deemed not fair. Just try and sign yourself and your family up for indentured servitude. It’s not allowed even if you want it at the time of signing the contract (you could contest it later). Look at all those crazy agreements that the software companies used to try to make us agree to. Contracts are not binding if they reduce your statutory or common law rights or form terms that seek to impose unfair burdens on you over and above the ordinary rules of laws. And that’s part of the reason why there are courts.

Sure, 19Alphabet can get some naive teenager to sign some contract requiring the contestant to hand over their first born (and some teenager would probably sign that). They can threaten said teenager with criminal prosecution or whatever when said teenager has a baby. But, they aren’t going to get the baby unless the teenager naively gives it up without a fight. No court would enforce the contract. And, IMO, the US Constitution was never conceived to enforce “anything goes” contracts.

And I will say that even if 19Alphabet can prevent any Idol auditionee from ever having a recording contract, I argue that the power of consumers should be brought to bear. I don’t say that everybody has to agree with me, but I will argue that a company like that deserves to be frowned at. Sure, some company can go to a third world country and according to the laws of that country, chain workers to sewing machines for 16 hours a day, but I would argue that people ought not buy the clothes made at that factory. Likewise, if 19Alphabet prevails at preventing some auditionee putting out an album 1 year later (even if that auditionee did say that Simon has a hairdoo from the 50s and Nigel smells (please note, Josiah did not say either of those things, but I do think Simon needs a doo update)), then I think they suck. And I’m not buying any of their crap. Like they care. LOL.

This is probably all a tempest in a teapot. There is probably an element of saber rattling and PR campaigning going on here. Whatever.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve never seen or heard a good example of how idol is rigged, otherwise [à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦] Jordin would not have won season 6.

This is not a good argument about AI not being rigged. Jordin & her father have known Randy Jackson for years, that all came out in S6. There were alot of other things that I can’t remember at this second to tie her with AI.

I wanted Mellinda, but it was a pretty forgone conclusion they wanted Jordin from the get go. Trust me. Really. They did not want Blake.

Jordin is such a good example. When season 6 audition just started, Randy said someone with curly hair would win. I was like really? someone looks like Chris Sligh can win? Well… after semi I knew who he was talking about. I personally don’t think the votes are fixed,(otherwise they don’t need to go through all the trouble manipulating it) the show itself is another story.

Putting a time limit on the release of another album or signing with another company is a far cry from chaining someone to a sewing machine.

Plenty of non entertainment industries have no compete clauses that restrict former employees from working in the same capacity within a set time frame and/or distance from their former job.

As of yet, I’ve seen nothing to make me think “unfair” or worse “illegal” Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but I haven’t seen it.

It does make me think however of that 2nd album that David Cook had almost ready to release before he auditioned and if he would have been restricted from releasing it had he only made it to Hollywood.

abbysee….. My daughter tried out in KY this year but didn’t get past the ‘cattle call’ round hh_ee: (She did make the second round in a Fox pre-idol contest..winner got to skip the ‘cattle call’ round at actual AI audition) (Sarah also tried out). You do sign a form (allowing them to show u on TV and so on) at that point but not a contract. :smile1_ee:

—————————————————————

I used to have a copy of the first year contract (lost in my puter crash) but I did get the info here

When the show began in 2002, only finalists had to sign the contract, but now it’s mandatory for all contestants. According to one article I read, Simon Fuller, the show’s creator, also gets half of the money brought in by those signed to 19. :bigsurprise_ee: :cheese1_ee:

19 Entertainment oversees not just the recording deal for à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“American Idolà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  stars, but also merchandising, touring, sponsorship and movie deals. The à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Idolà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  contracts are considered among the more restrictive in the industry.

Now I wonder if AI will force him to be turned down by 19 Entertainment before he can do anything else? Using having him on the show for such a brief time wasn’t enough? He might want to hire the lawyer used by Clay and Mario to get out of the contract (not sure who Kelly Clarkson used). :blank_ee:

The kids who audition for the show all want the same thing, a contract, get their music out there, fame, fortune (and we all know that u can make it big with AI behind u). I’m sure that most just sign the contract without reading it (they should all have a lawyer present to go over it with them (but, of course, if that happened, no one would sign it and we wouldn’t have a show). :ponder_tb:

I’m sure it will all work out, as long as they will all be making money :cheese1_ee:

Didn’t I read somewhere that at the time of Season 5 Hollywood week, Taylor Hicks tried to get the other contestants to join together and demand some changes to the contract they were all getting ready to sign? But he had no support from the others. They were eager and willing to sign whatever stipulations 19E had in the contracts in order to continue on with the show. I think I read that somewhere……

Contracts are not always as clear-cut as one party might think. Look at the recent à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Watchmenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  controversy. Warner Brothers spent millions making a movie believing that it held the movie rights and Twentieth Century Fox waited until the movie was finished before trying to block release of the movie because they believe they own some rights to the movie. One of them must be wrong.

I realize that contracts are not simple. As someone suggested, perhaps it’s all a matter of when Josiah signed the deal with Warner and not when the album is set to be released. Without getting our hands on a copy of the contract, it’s hard to say what Josiah’s rights are. Still, the record industry isn’t what it used to be and 19 is notorious for being icky. Warner should have gone over his obligations (if he has any) with a fine tooth comb before investing in him. At the very least, they should have known there was a risk. That’s just smart business.

Maybe they knew there was a risk, and went ahead with the project because they believe in Josiah. Or, maybe they planted this story with the oh-so reputable NY Post for attention. I guess time will tell.

Putting a time limit on the release of another album or signing with another company is a far cry from chaining someone to a sewing machine.

Very true. I’m just trying to point out that there are cases where I think consumers should start disapproving of the actions of big business in order to get them to behave. Back in the “robber baron” days of the US, there were a lot of big companies behaving badly. The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory disaster did not happen in some third world country and there are some people who honestly felt that the company was within its right to lock those doors and that the workers had no right to complain about what happened because they had willingly agreed to work there under those conditions. The majority of the country did not think that way and working conditions were changed period.

Also, I simply don’t think that people should be held to “anything goes” contracts. I don’t think it’s reasonable.

Plenty of non entertainment industries have no compete clauses that restrict former employees from working in the same capacity within a set time frame and/or distance from their former job.

I don’t think that anybody is arguing that there should be no restrictions. Nobody here has suggested that Josiah or whoever should have been allowed to release a CD during the season. We are debating the length of these “no compete” clauses. The three months of first refusal that they require for the contestants who make the Top 24 is probably reasonable. The 3 years of first refusal that somebody who showed up to support an Idol contestant accidently signed up for seems unreasonable to me.

Although there were a lot of rumours, Josiah’s signing was not confirmed until after the 3 months that the Top 24 signed up for. I think it is unreasonable to restrict an auditionee longer than a Top 12 contestant.

What season was William Hung? Was it season 2? I think after him making so much money off of merely auditioning, Idol tightened up those contracts.

Why didn’t they try to stop Brooke Barretsmith? Like Josiah, she too didn’t make it to the Top 24 but she got a record deal and put out an album anyway (a gospel album but still an album).

I can’t get worked up over this. If it happens to someone nice or one I like, I’d probably feel rather annoyed, but since it’s Josiah, I can only say it can’t happen to someone more deserving. (The bit using his mother’s cancer as a defence almost activated my gag response.)

Why didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t they try to stop Brooke Barretsmith? Like Josiah, she too didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t make it to the Top 24 but she got a record deal and put out an album anyway (a gospel album but still an album).

There might be a number of factors at play.

1) She tried out for Season 5 (aired in 2006), but her album didn’t come out until 2 years later (August 19, 2008)

2) Gospel albums are small potatoes. They aren’t typically going to compete on the pop airwaves against Idol signees. I don’t recall 19Alphabet ever signing an Idol to a gospel label (some Idols have gone to gospel labels, just not ones signed by 19E). Though, they did let make Ruben make a Gospel album for his second album.

3) Brooke is signed to Essential Records which is part of the Provident Label group which is, you guessed it, a division of Sony Music Entertainment. Sony is the label that signs Idols (jointly with 19R). That may have helped smooth any contract issues there might have been.

The interpretation and validity of the 19E contract may, or may not, be decided in a courtroom. That would be interesting to see. For me, the more interesting aspect of this whole story is Leming himself. My recollection of him, from his AI episodes, was that of an emotionally unstable kid. After reading the LA Times article, I am wondering if his fragile emotional instabilty remains. Some of his comments toward the end of the article would suggest that he may just be a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I may be alone in thinking this but I think Josiah is stronger than he appears. He certainly is a hot head and volatile, but his determination and the way he spun his 15 minutes of fame into a major record deal makes me think this kid is a LOT smarter and craftier than anyone is giving him credit for.

I think he has balls of steel.

Kirsten is absolutely right that the courts will not enforce contracts, no matter how many people signed in their own blood, if they are inherently unfair or unconscionable. “Void as against public policy” is the phrase.

There are always at least two parties to a contract, and they are supposed to be negotiating from equal positions “at arm’s length.” That is certainly not the case with AI contracts, and everybody knows that from the get-go.

It’s not unusual — people sign contracts every day that they know very well are not enforceable. Like a college student signs a lease for an apartment that says the student is still liable for the rent even if there’s no heat or water or electricity or even a roof, and if Stanley Student refuses to pay the rent under those circumstances, then he’s liable for the landlord’s attorney’s fees, too. No matter what was in the lease, I sincerely doubt any court would enforce that because that is simply unfair and unreasonable (as well as illegal in the jurisdictions I know about). Or someone in a very bad neighborhood, where salesmen don’t normally come, signs a contract to buy a refrigerator from a door-to-door salesman who charges twice of three times what the fridge is worth and tacks on HUGE (unconscionable) interest rates, knowing the buyer can never make those payments and the company would repossess the fridge in a week. That contract would never be enforced, because the courts would say that that kind of adhesion contract, targeting poor people who didn’t have any other shot at a fridge, was not good for society as a whole.

Non-compete clauses are another area that has actually been litigated a lot. In general, I recall there have to be reasonable limits on the non-competiton phase. So that the TV or radio station or whoever insists on the non-compete clause cannot enforce a term like three years. It has to be a reasonable limit. My recollection for TV people was somewhere in the neighborhood of a year and a half max. But just because it’s reasonable to expect a 35-year-old news anchorperson who worked at that station for four or five years to take 18 months off before switching to the other station in town does not mean that it’s reasonable to expect a 19-year-old who tried out for a TV show to be bound to a recording company or manager, neither of which is connected to the medium he performed on for them, for more than maybe six months after he’s been dismissed. The TV station can claim that they made the anchorperson a star and it’s unfair to allow that person to compete immediately in the same market, doing the same job. It’s a balance of the TV station being able to protect its market share as well as the “talent” being able to protect his right to make a living. But 19E made Josiah a “star” (sort of) singing (sort of) on a television show. If they want to block him from competing or even singing on other television shows for a year, well, that might be reasonable. But barring him from record contracts entered into a year after he was dismissed from their program? Makes no sense to me as a reasonable non-compete clause.

I would guess that this is really more of an option clause than a non-compete clause, however. I wrote books for a company with extremely restrictive contracts in general, and their option was still up 60 days after the material had been submitted to them. The key is that nobody bucked them, even if the option had expired, because they knew it was extremely unlikely that anybody would want the black eye of suing them. People did sue them, eventually, over issues that got to be onerous, like the rights to their backlists and pseudonyms, and they won. Yep. They signed contracts with restrictive obligations, and sued to get from under those contracts, and won.

I don’t know whether a court would uphold Josiah’s contract, especially without seeing the contract, but I definitely think there are good legal arguments to be made as to why it would not be enforceable.

OK, but we aren’t talking about 19 saying “if you try out for Idol and you don’t win, you can never release anything” what they are saying is “if you try out for idol and you want to release something within x amount of time, you must come to us first” correct?

OK, but we arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t talking about 19 saying à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“if you try out for Idol and you donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t win, you can never release anythingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  what they are saying is à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“if you try out for idol and you want to release something within x amount of time, you must come to us firstà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  correct?

Sort of. We are talking “if you try out for idol and don’t make it, you still can’t sign with anyone but us or sign to any other record label outside SONY/BMG for a longer length of time than the people who actually made it through” Seems excessive.

When put that way, it almost does make sense. The runners up (generally) can’t release before the winner. So this gives the rest of the top 12 an opportunity to get something out there before those who didn’t make it to the finals.

But if Josiah hadn’t been so vocally anti-Idol from the minute he was off the show, this may never have been an issue. A waiver may have been granted when asked and that would have been that.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know whether a court would uphold Josiahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s contract, especially without seeing the contract, but I definitely think there are good legal arguments to be made as to why it would not be enforceable.

Let’s go to COURT!!! Woo-hoo!!!

AI is the most rigged show that I love to watch. I’ve been saying that for years – more rigged when the person I hate wins, and less rigged when the person I love wins. But, it’s twisted nonetheless.

I’d be surprised if they proved me wrong and played fair.

They may be trying to frighten him into shutting his trap.

I agree with Kirsten. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s definitely a two way street. TPTB made plenty of money off of Josiah. And who is to say that Josiah would not have eventually gotten signed by some other means? Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only a teenager, he hadnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t been pursuing music for all that long. Idol doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t deserve 100% of the credit for Josiahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s success.

I completely agree with Kirsten as well.

AI could have enforced that contract within the three months of the show airing if they had wanted to do so. They didn’t. He was hot then, maybe hotter than he is now. His myspace was inundated with fans at that point. They chose not to pursue working with him. IIRC, he didn’t begin to work with Warner until after the 90 days so I’m not sure AI would even have a leg to stand on.

Secondly, what makes Josiah unique is his songwriting skills. The kid writes beautiful music. Without those songs, I’m not sure he would have signed a deal with any record company. Since AI is a singing contest, they didn’t and wouldn’t showcase those songwriting skills, obviously. They deserve credit for getting his face out there, but they’ve already got their money’s worth in return.

As far as this being a publicity stunt, I don’t know. AI could deny that they sent the letter and they haven’t, as far as I’m aware.

They deserve credit for getting his face out there, but theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve already got their moneyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s worth in return.

THANK YOU! Josiah doesn’t owe them jack at this point. The brief time he was on the show was mutually beneficial. Josiah got valuable exposure and AI got a compelling story that got them great ratings and a ton of free publicity. In my eyes that makes them about even.

And, quite frankly, for every $1 an Idol contestant makes, the AI machine makes MILLIONS off of the hopes and dreams of all the young people that have paraded through the show the past 7 years. I mean, how freakin’ GREEDY can you get AI!?

Seems to me that AI has made a mistake by not going after Brooke Barretsmith. Unless the contract states that you can make a gospel album within the three year time limit or that AI will only go after you at their own discretion.. I don’t see the difference between Brooke or Josiah. I see this as a major weak point for the AI side :tongue_laugh_ee:

They didn’t go after Phil Stacey, Bucky Covington, Elliot Yamin, Mandisa, etc… either. If they’re gonna enforce a contract, they need to be consistant and not just go after who they feel like going after.

The unsigned from S7 are scouting for deals and nobody seems to be waiting three years. Yet an auditioner has a more restrictive deal?

TPTB do seem cooperative if asked because I know Elliott, Micheal Johns and possibly Ace all asked to be released early and were given the ok. They’ve certainly been nice to Elliott and it looks like MJ will be on the show next year so it’s not like they hate you if you leave. Idol def helped Elliott sell some albums and gave him better promo than 19R artist Kat got.

I don’t really know why Warners signed Joshua without a waiver or why he’s getting the hard time that nobody else seems to have gotten. I believe Warners has lawyers who would be aware of the restrictive Idol contracts. This story is odd.

AI could have enforced that contract within the three months of the show airing if they had wanted to do so. They didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t.

Who’s to say that they didn’t? Who’s to say that 19 hasn’t been sending letters to Warner and Josiah every month or so since his signing with Warners warning them that Josiah granted 19 a right of first refusal for some X period of months and he (and Warner) failed to go through the proper procedures of getting a waiver? Yes, they didn’t take them to court right away but they certainly get around any argument of reliance or laches, if they go ahead and send warning letters periodically. Who’s to say that Josiah and Warners isn’t just publicizing the 19 letter(s) now because the time is finally right for the release of the EP (and they’re hoping that crassly mentioning the dying mother will get 19 to back off because of the bad PR)? I really do smell a stunt here.

I’m not a fan of 19 or anything and I can’t really comment on how egregious the contracts are because I haven’t seen which one Josiah signed, but I do (fairly or unfairly) have this perception of Josiah as a whiny little self-entitled brat who thinks he’s a lot better than he is and thinks rules that apply to everyone else don’t apply to him. So, uh, couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

Also, upthread someone mentioned something about people signing contracts all the time that they have no intention of ever living up to because it’s unenforceable, blah, blah, blah, and I guess that just rubs me the wrong way. If you know you’re not going to adhere to the terms of a contract, then don’t sign it. Don’t sign it cynically thinking, heh, I’ll take all the things I want out of it and then when it doesn’t suit me, I’ll cry and say, oh look what the big bad people made me sign. Judge, please protect me!

Cake and eating and all that.

Seems to me that AI has made a mistake by not going after Brooke Barretsmith. Unless the contract states that you can make a gospel album within the three year time limit or that AI will only go after you at their own discretion.. I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see the difference between Brooke or Josiah. I see this as a major weak point for the AI side

Except for all we know, Brooke complied with whatever the terms of the contract were at the time. She may have sought and been granted a waiver. There are a lot of people this could have applied to except we know 19 let them out of the contract. It sounds as if Josiah did not seek that kind of waiver.

Oops, I just realized Elliott, MJ and Ace all went indie. Joshua is with a major. And he’s one of the few (only) Idol people to get signed by a major after the show. Bucky’s label is not an indie but it’s not a major label.

Maybe that’s the problem? I refuse to believe that Warners would sign him without knowing the details of his contract with 19XYZ. That’s the weird part.

Lyric Street is DEFINATELY a major. It’s part of Disney Music Group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyric_Street

So Bucky and Phil signed with major labels and released albums within the same time frame Josiah is planning to. Yet they didn’t get any legal threats.

Bucky was on the show in 2006 and released his album in April 2007. Phil was on the show in 2007 and released his album in April 2008.

I certainly would like to know what the difference is between them and Josiah.

With Josiah’s song writing skills, he certainly has the potential to be one of the top 5 former Idol money makers. I bet it’s his writing skills that are making 19Entertainment go after him. If he was going to put out a couple of albums and sell a couple hundred thousand copies, no big deal. But potentially, his songs will soon be used in movies, on TV, and recorded by others. Josiah has the potential to be a huge money making machine.

just sayin: Taylor wrote about his attempt to “organize” the Top 24 of American Idol in his memoir. To quote him: “…and let the record show I failed miserably.” He also said, “But my point here is people should go into these shows with their eyes wide open.” (p. 191)

Wise advice, I believe, for anyone (think Josiah) considering signing any piece of paper the Idol PTB place in front of him.

Hard to believe but I think only Sony, Warners and Universal are considered true majors. Why didn’t 19 threaten once Warners announced he was signed? Why wait and why would Warners open themselves up to legal action. They can’t be that stupid. Anyway, maybe all the mysteries will be revealed.

I read somewhere that at the time of Season 5 Hollywood week, Taylor Hicks tried to get the other contestants to join together and demand some changes to the contract they were all getting ready to sign? But he had no support from the others. They were eager and willing to sign whatever stipulations 19E had in the contracts in order to continue on with the show. I think I read that somewhereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦

Taylor talks about this in his book. I’ll have to check, but I’m pretty sure that he says that he even called together the other contestants’ parents, etc. to voice his concerns. But, no one else–contestant or family member–wanted to challenge the terms of the contract. This did NOT go over well with 19Evil, either.

In the book Taylor seems to be amazed that he actually thought at the time that he could pull something like that off, but I for one respect the fact that he tried. IMHO, that took some SERIOUS balls.

“AI could have enforced that contract within the three months of the show airing if they had wanted to do so. They didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t.”

Whoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s to say that they didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t? Whoà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s to say that 19 hasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t been sending letters to Warner and Josiah every month or so since his signing with Warners warning them that Josiah granted 19 a right of first refusal for some X period of months and he (and Warner) failed to go through the proper procedures of getting a waiver?

That is a valid point. For the record, a contract is a contract in my book.

However, this is an argument that will be heard in the court of public opinion. He’s a kid. Did he understand what he was signing? Who knows. Did this kid have an attorney look it over beforehand? Probably not. Would the court of public opinion consider this fair? Probably not.

I don’t think this is an argument that 19alphabet can win in the court of public opinion. They would do well to remember that this public buys the records. ETA: Not to mention this public watches their show and supports the finalists and winner monetarily.

Even if they do have a “legal right” to stop his album from dropping, do they really want to look like the big, bad, mean machine that some suspect they are anyway? It’s a lose/lose for 19alphabet to pursue this if, in fact, they have made threats.

It would be funny if this were all some publicity stunt

After reading to the article I kind of believe this is all publicity…
.

As MJ says follow the money. I always tell my kids it is always about the money. Sad but true.

JOSIAH Leming, a homeless singer whose mother is dying of cancer, might be blocked from releasing the album he recorded because he was a contestant last season on à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“American Idol.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

Is me or this sounds like they want people to buy the EP because they feel sorry for him…sorry just my opinion…and I believe he has a home now so stop it with that…

I think right now we are only getting Josiah side of the story, I mean, we really donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know if 19E try to get legal actions before the album was produced and we are only getting the news until now because it will create noise to the EP… I  ´m not a legal genius but I think if a property is in discussion or in wait for legal action they will remove his EP out of iTunes and Amazon, and this hasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t happened yet…

ETA:
None of Josiah ´s songs are in the top 100 of alternative music in iTunes, neither in the Top 100 albums….

From what others have told me, the contracts signed expire 3 months after the finale. That would have been August 21, 2008. It is now October. They must be running scared knowing that some that have slipped through are becoming more notable (others include Brianna Taylor, Sarah Burgess and Brooke Barrettsmith, with Baylie Brown expected to release something in 2009).

As for Colbie Caillat, I am not sure exactly where she was cut, but I know she didn’t sign with Universal Republic until October 2006, and she auditioned for season 5 in 2005. That would have been 14 months after the audition, and 5 months after the finale, so she would have been safe anyway.

Others not in the top 24 that were signed:

Sarah Burgess (PME/seeking distributor) – signed in August 2007 immediately after contract expired after failing to get clearance.

Brianna Taylor (Chamberlain/Universal) – signed in early 2008, more than 2 years after appearing on AI5, and picked up by Universal in September 2008.

Baylie Brown (Universal South) – signed in September 2007 after approval from AI to withdraw from AI7 (she got clearance since otherwise she would have been stuck for another year).

Brooke Barrettsmith (Essential/SonyBMG) – signed in early 2007, about a year after appearing on AI5.

(There are others, those are the most notable)

From what others have told me, the contracts signed expire 3 months after the finale. That would have been August 21, 2008.

Be that as it may, Josiah signed with Warners well before August 21, 2008 and IF the agreement (which none of us have seen) says that 19 has a right of first refusal to sign him until August 21st and he didn’t give them the opportunity to counter offer when Warners offered to sign him, then Josiah breached the contract while it was in force. The claim for breach lives even if the agreement has terminated. The fact that he is releasing the album after August 21, 2008 would have nothing to do with it.

Correct Keel, he did breach the contract when it was signed back in March. What I don’t understand is why 19E waited until now to act, I remember when it was first reported I posted that it was not legal. 19E had a legitimate case to block the signing back in March, but why they let it go forward is beyond me.

If he signed with Warner today, it would be legitimate. (Likewise, for his peers, if they signed today – and did not audition for season 8 – they would be OK).

Correct Keel, he did breach the contract when it was signed back in March. What I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t understand is why 19E waited until now to act, I remember when it was first reported I posted that it was not legal. 19E had a legitimate case to block the signing back in March, but why they let it go forward is beyond me.

Well we don’t really know when 19 sent the letter.
Perhaps, the letter mentioned in the article was sent in March..but Josiah’s reps decided to talk about it now..

We weren’t told when the letter was sent..just that they decided to tell the public about it now..

We also don’t know that 19 isn’t in on the publicity stunt, if it is one. They thrive on controversy. They sell their own contestants out to TMZ. They play up fueds among the judges and between Ryan and Simon. I think they love it when peeps are mad at TPTB. It creates buzz. Buzz=ratings. They make more money off the show than they ever will from the recording artists. Any success Josiah has isn’t going to hurt them at all. Honestly, I don’t think he will outsell either David, although I’ll probably like his music better.

Perhaps 19′s lack of response indicates complicity. Like I said earlier, they certainly didn’t try to block his EP. Just a thought. :dunce_tb:

From what others have told me, the contracts signed expire 3 months after the finale. That would have been August 21, 2008.

The prevailing theory is that the above ONLY applies to the Top 24. Josiah didn’t make it to the Top 24. No one really knows what restrictions who don’t make it that far have on them.

That’s the main question. Most people were under the assumption that if you didn’t get to the Top 24 you were a free agent. Which again begs the question, how far reaching is AI’s grasp? At what point during the auditioning process do these clauses kick in? And just how long are contestants forced to wait?

Lyric Street is DEFINATELY a major. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s part of Disney Music Group.

Nope. The majors are Sony, Universal, Warner and EMI. During the first 9 months of the year Universal sold 31.9%, Sony 24.3%, Warner 21% and EMI 9.2% of the market. That leaves everybody (called “the independent sector”) scrapping over the remaining 13.6% of the market. Disney is just one of the bigger fish in the tiny indie pond.

Also, upthread someone mentioned something about people signing contracts all the time that they have no intention of ever living up to because ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s unenforceable, blah, blah, blah, and I guess that just rubs me the wrong way. If you know youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re not going to adhere to the terms of a contract, then donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t sign it. Donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t sign it cynically thinking, heh, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll take all the things I want out of it and then when it doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t suit me, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll cry and say, oh look what the big bad people made me sign. Judge, please protect me!

Have you seriously read every contract you’ve ever agreed to? Every one? Even the ones you agree to just by opening the package? Some of that stuff is hilarious. Good heavens. Have you ever read what kind of crap you are signing yourself up to when you go skiing? I have a ski lift ticket handy. According to the contract that I agree to every time I go skiing, I give up the right to sue or receive compensation if I’m injured or killed even if the resort is totally at fault (neligence, breach of contract or breach of statutory duty of care). Apparently, they could blow up the lodge while I’m sitting there having an after ski hot chocolate (heck, they could poison the chocolate) and I would be without any rights. Or so the back of the ticket says. You’d have to be living in a box if you’ve never signed on to some unenforceable contract. Good luck haggling for a contract change with the kid operating the lift. They’ll think you are certifiable. And the resort will pay compensation when they forget you are on the lift and leave you dangling there overnight no matter what their contract says. Airlines. Software Companies. DVDs. There are a lot of crazy contracts and they are not enforceable. Nor should they be.

Be that as it may, Josiah signed with Warners well before August 21, 2008 and IF the agreement (which none of us have seen) says that 19 has a right of first refusal to sign him until August 21st and he didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t give them the opportunity to counter offer when Warners offered to sign him, then Josiah breached the contract while it was in force.

There are a lot of ifs there. We don’t know what the deal is. We don’t know when Warner signed the deal. We don’t know if 19Alphabet was given the chance to counter-offer. All I know is that I will think less of AI if they prevent him from selling his album. They didn’t want him. They didn’t think they could make money off of him. They very publicly dismissed him. Warner saw the potential. Let them and him have a chance. Dogs in a manager. They’ve made enough money already. And I’d think this even if I personally hated him. Fair is fair.

I’m thinking publicity stunt as well. I’ve made no secret of the fact that I really dont care for Josiah or his music and I was tickled pink when he got the boot because I thought he was annoying, arrogant and whiney. I think TPTB can just let it happen. I for one dont see Josiah being all that big so no great loss. If it’s not a stunt I hope TPTB will let his mom see her son release his cd.

I wasn’t all that impressed with Josiah, but if he really has talent, this will work itself out (with lawyers and all that).

Have you seriously read every contract youà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve ever agreed to? Every one? Even the ones you agree to just by opening the package? Some of that stuff is hilarious. Good heavens. Have you ever read what kind of crap you are signing yourself up to when you go skiing? I have a ski lift ticket handy. According to the contract that I agree to every time I go skiing, I give up the right to sue or receive compensation if Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m injured or killed even if the resort is totally at fault (neligence, breach of contract or breach of statutory duty of care).

Nope, I haven’t read every contract that’s printed on the back on some ticket or other form that’s given to me that I don’t have to sign, etc., that’s for sure. Not saying they may not be legally binding (which they could be, IDK), but the Idol contract is something that the auditioners actually sign as oppose to attach to just their jackets before they go up the ski lift. Morally, to me at least, it’s totally different. A contract, if you read and sign, with the thought that, oh well, I can always get out of it by pleading stupidity or having no choice but to sign, I’m not down with. And as far as the part about not having a choice, he had a choice not to sign and audition and just walk away.

I’m sorry, I like the kid and even bought a couple of his songs, but this is starting to sound like a bigger publicity stunt than “Joe the Plumber” … Josiah the Homeless Idol Reject (with Entitlement Issues). Puh-leeze.

Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the main question. Most people were under the assumption that if you didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get to the Top 24 you were a free agent. Which again begs the question, how far reaching is AIà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s grasp? At what point during the auditioning process do these clauses kick in? And just how long are contestants forced to wait?

It takes effect when they first enter the audition room, but it doesn’t get enforced very well for those who were cut early. Generally speaking, someone who made it to Hollywood or appeared on television is solidly being watched. That being said, if someone were to jump to a major label, AI may take action no matter what if they find them on their database (i.e. if Colbie Caillat had signed before August 2006).

Kirsten:
“Apparently, they could blow up the lodge while Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sitting there having an after ski hot chocolate (heck, they could poison the chocolate) and I would be without any rights. Or so the back of the ticket says.

I know this is off topic, but just FYI, the back of the ticket is correct in most ski areas. I went to law school in Colorado (and skied there a lot.) The lack of rights of the skier and the lack of responsibility of the resort is actually state law and not just a question of negligence. It is in many other states as well. (And countries with large ski areas)

To bring this back to the matter at hand, just like Colorado protects the ski areas, (they pay lots of taxes and employ lots of people), the state of California protects the entertainment industry. Maybe Josiah and others thought they could sign this contract and it wouldn’t be enforced. They were wrong. If he wasn’t let out of the contract or had his label buy him out, he won’t win. Oh, the reason they are going forward now, if they are? It just might be monetarily worth their while. A major label is putting out his music. That label has deep pockets. They may have waited until the label had put enough time and effort into Josiah to pay 19 to go away or give them a cut.

There’s no way AI can win in the court of the public opinion. People eat this stuff up. The people vs. the powerful. The little guy vs. the big guy. Evil corporations. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

The majority of the public (to say less of the media) won’t apply any critical thinking in this case. Werner (a powerful, big-guy, corporation) has concocted the image of Josiah writing songs in his beat-up old car before he falls asleep in the back seat every night after spending his days racing between the recording studio and his mother’s hospice.

I know this is off topic, but just FYI, the back of the ticket is correct in most ski areas. I went to law school in Colorado (and skied there a lot.) The lack of rights of the skier and the lack of responsibility of the resort is actually state law and not just a question of negligence. It is in many other states as well. (And countries with large ski areas)

Here we have a prime example of where even when the legislators are in the back pocket of the industry, many courts are not going to let unfair contracts persist even when the state laws say they can. The courts in Colorado have apparentely overturned those laws since you went to law school.

Here is an article from the WSJ mentioning the subject:

Utah Supremes Rule Ski-Resort Liability Waivers Are Void

But last week, the Utah Supreme Court ruled 3-2 that those waivers are void as against state public policy. Click here for the opinion. Utah law now aligns with ski-rich states Colorado and Vermont, which have found liability releases to be void.

The court held that a statute, called the Utah Inherent Risks of Skiing Act, was meant to make insurance affordable by protecting ski resorts from being sued over dangers routinely involved in the sport. But the law still holds them accountable for negligence, the court ruled. The majority said that because the lawà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s purpose was to ensure reasonable insurance rates, ski resorts should not be able to use waivers à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“to significantly pare back or even eliminate their need to purchase the very liability insurance the Act was designed to make affordable.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

The courts simply do not tolerate the resorts being free to be negligent. It’s against public interest. They can tolerate that people should expect to get injured from other skiiers or from skiing into a tree, but they can’t be free to be outright negligent. Imagine if they were.

Likewise, the courts (and I think the court of public opinion), would not allow AI to permanently disallow any auditioner from ever getting a recording contract as long as they live. Therefore, we are debating the length of time the auditioners should have to wait before they can release a CD. I think that they should not be expected to wait longer than the three months that the Top 24 must wait. I’m not sure how 19Alphabet can argue that allowing some auditioner to release their album in January can hurt them. They happily allow other non-winners to release in the time-frame of August-January, so their actions indicate they don’t think it’s a problem.

Here is Warner Brothers PR trailer for Josiah:

http://wbrvideo.tv/josiahleming/TrailerPreRelease_link.mov

Kirsten, if that’s the case then the courts have changed in the Mountain West a whole lot since I attempted to write a paper on the subject in the mid 90′s. The statutory language was very difficult to get around and prior holdings were favorable to the resorts.

I’m curious about the whole “court of public opinion” thing though. Many have commented that they don’t think that AI would risk the bad publicity. I have watched previous seasons, but haven’t really followed them. From just what I’ve read on MJ’s though AI has done quite a good job of screwing over some pretty beloved contestants, Clay and Taylor spring immediately to mind. If they thought they could get away with treating these guys poorly and get away with it, (and they did), what would stop them from going after Josiah? I say this because I watched from season 1 episode 1 and until this year (and reading things online) had no idea that there were any hard feeling between AI and Taylor, or Clay, or any other idol. My point is that I think 19 knows that most people don’t pay attention, and if they do just don’t care one way or the other. They will still watch or buy the music they like. I doubt anyone who does not follow AI on the internet remembers who Josiah is beyond a possible vague recollection of the crying kid with the fake accent or the dude who lived in his car. I just don’t think public opinion matters to them that much in cases like this. It will be a case of cost/benefit analysis only IMO.

ETA: I just viewed the video. It’s an effective telling of Josiah’s tale. However, I don’t think a PR campaign of Josiah vs. AI will benefit Josiah’s music sales or hurt AI’s viewership, both of which are the only things that really count. People will still watch what they like and buy what they want to listen to regardless of bad press. (Or good press as the case may be.)

I think Warner Brothers is gearing up for a Josiah vs. the AI Whale campaign. Watch the video link above. It’s brilliant.

Likewise, the courts (and I think the court of public opinion), would not allow AI to permanently disallow any auditioner from ever getting a recording contract as long as they live.

But is this really the case? I think it’s one thing if the contract is so restrictive and burdensome as to have the auditioner be restricted from the industry for the remainder of their lives. But it’s quite another if what we’re talking about here is a right of first refusal for some period of months after the show — say, through the August 21, 2008 date that we know the Top 10 had to wait for — before they could sign on with a record label without giving 19 first dibs. The first, I could see a court ruling as unenforceable because it imposes an unreasonable restriction on an auditioner for a ridiculously long time in exchange for an ephemeral chance to win the show, and the other, 19 could argue, is a reasonable restriction that protects the show’s commercial interest in keeping up the appearance that the ultimate prize for the winner (and runner-up) is actually something that the other auditioners don’t get to have before them, unless 19 chooses to waive that right.

From just what Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve read on MJà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s though AI has done quite a good job of screwing over some pretty beloved contestants, Clay and Taylor spring immediately to mind. If they thought they could get away with treating these guys poorly and get away with it, (and they did), what would stop them from going after Josiah? I say this because I watched from season 1 episode 1 and until this year (and reading things online) had no idea that there were any hard feeling between AI and Taylor, or Clay, or any other idol.

I think it was a bit more subtle what they did to Taylor and Clay. Taylor’s picture gets stuck behind a plant? Quit whining. It’s just a coincidence. Clay sings crappy cover songs? Quit whining. He should have picked better songs. He could have said, no. Simon says that Taylor sucks and America got it wrong? Quit whining. He’s entitled to an opinion. etc.

Without knowing the byzantine workings of the music biz and 19Alphabet, the average person isn’t going to grasp these stories or want to take the time to grasp it or even care (plus, it sounds like the sour grape ravings of lunatic fans).

But it doesn’t take much to tell people that AI cut this crying, homeless kid and now they won’t even let him release his album. Now, it may be that nobody cares about the crying, homeless kid, but it’s an easier story to tell. The ploy might not work, but I can see why Warner might want to try. AI gave the kid this story and now it’s going to be turned on them. They shouldn’t have sent the letter. I can’t believe they didn’t see this one coming, but they’ve done things like this before (for instance the tone-deaf way they handled the Bush Baby controversy where they actually complimented themselves for doing that kid a favour. Blech!)

ETA: I just viewed the video. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s an effective telling of Josiahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s tale. However, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think a PR campaign of Josiah vs. AI will benefit Josiahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s music sales or hurt AIà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s viewership, both of which are the only things that really count. People will still watch what they like and buy what they want to listen to regardless of bad press. (Or good press as the case may be.)

I don’t know. It depends on whether this story has legs. It probably won’t hurt AI’s viewership in the end, but it might make the franchise look bad. If it doesn’t hurt their bottom line, I suppose they won’t care.

However, I think it could help Josiah distance himself even further from AI, which will help him with the hip triple AAA music crowd. He could be seen as some sort of Anti-AI hero, and it could earn him some music cred. Although, I think the quality of his music stands on it’s own.

The idea that the producers at AI would try to stop Josiah from releasing his music, nearly a full year after he appeared on the show seems beyond unreasonable to me. That’s the bottom line. Does it really matter when he signed the contract as long as he doesn’t interfere with the AI winners? The producers didn’t “officially” sign off on him? As if they would have picked him up anyway…

And if Josiah and Warner bros. are milking the situation for PR purposes, I say, good for them.

The first, I could see a court ruling as unenforceable because it imposes an unreasonable restriction on an auditioner for a ridiculously long time in exchange for an ephemeral chance to win the show, and the other, 19 could argue, is a reasonable restriction that protects the showà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s commercial interest in keeping up the appearance that the ultimate prize for the winner (and runner-up) is actually something that the other auditioners donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get to have before them, unless 19 chooses to waive that right.

We’ll have to wait to see what the letter says (if we ever do), before we know what their problem is with Josiah’s album (if they do have a problem). We have no evidence that he was signed to Warner before that day. Lots of rumours and maybe letters of agreements, but he may not have signed on the dotted line at the approved time. AI took no action against Ayla two years ago when her dad was going around all summer telling everybody she was signed too (I do believe she waited until the approved date before actually inking the final deal though and then quickly recorded).

Furthermore, the prize is a 1 million dollar recording contract with 19R and Sony (what that means, nobody knows exactly). If somebody gets a contract with somebody else, how is that usurping the ultimate prize? If I enter a horse in the Kentucky Derby and it loses, does that mean my horse isn’t allowed to win the Belmont Stakes? I can see how the winner might be able to try to argue that all these 19R/Sony deals with runner-ups, and fourth and fifth and 7th place finishers might usurp their prize, but obviously that’s allowed. If that’s allowed, how can they argue that somebody else getting a recording contract from third party hurts the prize they give out? The prize has been so tarnished by the actions of 19Alphabet that it really has no meaning other than the title, IMO. That’s not the avenue their are going to be successful with. They are going to argue that they had an agreement for first refusal because they want the ability to have time to make a decision about somebody they found.

A contract is a contract is a contract. I’m getting tired of businesses being labeled the bad guy because some guy thinks a signed contract doesn’t count for anything if he wants to do something else.

While I may not agree that this contract is fair to the individual Idols, that’s neither here nor there. I am VERY sure that Josiah’s current label knows EXACTLY what his contract with Idol entails and they are using the court of public opinion to squirm him out of it.

That video is a heart breaker. I do like his music, the kid has soul.

Oh, just to set things right about Colbie Caillat. Like thousands of other awesome singers, she never made it past the first round (cattle call) so she never signed any contract with AI. Read about it here :smile1_ee:

Josiah has been kind of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“maverick-yà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  all along. The kid was posting on VFTW before his audition aired. Theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve had plenty of chances to flex their muscles and it looks like maybe he waited until they could hurt him the most. I ultimately think that the album will be released on schedule, but it might be a bumpy road.

He waited till Jan 25th to post on VFTW. The day Idol held the top 50 to 24 cut. He was PISSED at AI and I suggested he vent there…lol

The kid has faked lots of things since he was on the show (even the accent is fake), so I have problems believing most of the things he says.
And if ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s indeed in the contract that he canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t release an album next year, than whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s there to discuss? Next time donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t sign

I’ve talked to Joey many times. His accent is not fake. it is just the way he talks.

Josiah signed the contract around March 5th….