Idol Headlines for 6/19/08

I am sickened to see articles in two New York magazines still pitting the Davids against each other. They have such a high regard for each other, and let’s hope their fans can have the same respect for each other and not allow themselves to be baited by this crap.

In turn, Archie fans comment or email in droves to tell me what an awful person I am and accuse me of being bias, a father-hater and more.

So, as far as the discussion we had in the Teen Choice awards thread? This would be exhibit “A”. And, obviously, some people haven’t learned their lesson, because there is a whole new slew of nasty comments attacking this journalist for this article. Stop giving reporters amunition to prove that you’re crazy people!

Cook fans have done similar email spamming on Televisionwithoutpity for one of the site’s AI recaps and now are being mocked as the new Claymates. I look at the way the Cook thread is going on TwoP and can’t say I blame the mod either. Sigh.

In the light of news that Archie might not complete high school, this sentence sounds all kinds of wrong: “David is only 17 and needs to focus on his music right now à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  not scoring with chicks”. Maybe he should go out and try to get a date. Ah well.

Jessica Simpson Mistaken For Carrie Underwood By Fan

This is getting crazy….

Cook fans have done similar email spamming on Televisionwithoutpity for one of the siteà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s AI recaps and now are being mocked as the new Claymates.

That’s just not true.
TelevisionWithoutPity is a site which has AI forums on it. There is no “email spamming”, there is forum posting, and yes, the David Cook forum is very very very active there – because he has many fans, and there’s alot going on to write about.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the image you depict. It’s the same as the Archie forum on IDF having more posts than the rest. Make the distinction between e-spamming reporters and posting to a forum. It’s not a very difficult distinction to make.
As a DC fan, I’ve never come across an organized spamming campaign in our fanbase, not even when negative articles have been submitted. You can’t make something up if it isn’t there.

Archuleta already withdrew from classes last year to continue his journey through the American Idol process. Having not finished last year, there was no certainty he would go back at all.

Do the writers even watch the fucking show? Archie did school for three damn hours every day! He had school the day of the finale for heavens sakes. *Sighs*

Please let’s not do an Archie vs. David crazy fans thing, cause they are both incredibly scary. I mean what’s worse a crazy women telling Cook she wants to eff him in public, or an emailing campaign. Let’s not start in on all of the silly campaigns on either side. I do recall an idol is so hateful that they won’t front David the money so that David’s brother can get to the finale……. who to we write to….like I said. I think idol fans in general are the new claymates regardly of the contestant. Recall seeing some Jason fans in this mix too…… *whistles*.

How the hell do you mistaken Jessica Simpson for Carrie Underwood? Love her or hate her (and for the record, I’m not a fan of hers) Jessica and Nick were heavily pimped everywhere when they had their show on so its not like she’s some unrecognizable face. Jeez, because they’re both blonde makes them interchangeable to this self-proclaimed #1 fan of Carrie’s? :rolleyes_wp:

I mean whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s worse a crazy women telling Cook she wants to eff him in public, or an emailing campaign.

Equally creepy. Every fanbase has its crazies. And, they do their favorites no favors. I don’t think it matters which fanbase exhibits the behaviors, because their are some overly-invested, defensive fans for all of the contestants. And, they should ALL just stop. It doesn’t make any difference and no good can come of it.

Do the writers even watch the fucking show? Archie did school for three damn hours every day! He had school the day of the finale for heavens sakes. *Sighs*

That article has an unduly negative slant. I’m sure he’ll have to do the school thing during the tour as well. Hopefully, while he’s working, he’ll get enough done to graduate.

Not organized spamming, but this is what I was talking about actually: http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/american_idol/season_7_top_5_results.php

Blah blah blah “you have to write furious profanity-laden emails, maybe, to the person apprising them of these facts that presumably everyone who’s anyone already knows, and maybe a certain number of these emails, in a given 12-hour period, all kind of blend together, and show the person once and for all that the real story is that David Cook is the new fucking Clay Aiken, and will thus win, and that’s what Ryan’s trying to say.”

Since this, it’s “Claymates” this, “Claymtes” that on the site everytime things get out of control. Bah.

SpenserJ, I am going to side with the Archie fans when it comes down to his father. This women admits that she loves taking potshots at Jeff. I say that David is the one who needs to deal with this when he is an adult if he father is indeed an issue.

I remember a poster here saying that he could tell that Archie was abused because of his halting speech and shy demeanor. Reading stuff like that makes me take all of the stuff about Jeff A with a grain of salt. You see the biggest riff against him wasn’t anything definitve. Can anyone say what he did, besides possibly look out for the best interests of his child? Chikeze said he was cool, Cook said he was cool, Jason said he was cool. They didnt have to, they could have said no comment, or if they were worried about Archie on a personal level, they could have simply raised an eyebrow and say well I just can’t say, but…..

The kid they say he harassed on Star Search didn’t recall any incident. Maybe then there is smoke, there is fire. Or maybe they took a tasty tidbit, and ran with it.

On the other side, the Cook fans are having a nice time on the site that is questioning David’s inclusion in the People magazine story. Maybe it’s not organized, but it is just as bad yet the same.

ETA, I hate all of these fanwars. I was a participant during season two. I thought it was all in fun. I was a frequent poster on the Bolt message boards. It was fun for a while, then crap got out of hand, and frankly continues till this day. (not for me) Claymates never forget that he lost, and took matters into their own hands. It worked for him initially, but it took on a life of its own and I believe that it really hurt his career. The fan bases should really take this into consideration when they do the things they do. The worse I ever did was post on a forum, and I did write a letter to the editor that was published, but it was a polite, content based response to a silly story, not an expletive laden, OTT diatribe. Event that would be too much for me as I see that stuff like that is just wack, lol.

Since this, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Claymatesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  this, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Claymtesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  that on the site everytime things get out of control. Bah.

Well,since Jacob is the one who wrote this, and is the only one on TWoP who makes the “Claymate” comments (he’s the mod for AI forums on TWoP), I’d say it’s just one person’s categorization.
Fans can be passionate, and every fanbase has its crazies. It’s a question of volume, and it’s a question of how much negative impact these rabid fans have on their favorite’s career.

Okay, first, I’m going to apologize for accidentally starting a fanwar. My original post was intended to be more generalized and definitely not directed at Archie’s fanbase in particular. I believe you can find evidence of obsessed whackadoodles in every fanbase, so there is no need to convince me that the Cooktards are equally as crazy.

The behavior drives me batty regardless of where it’s coming from. While David C. wasn’t my original favorite, once my original favorites were gone – I did vote for him. I love his music and I’ll buy his cd. But, I am not emotionally invested in his success at all. To me, Archie is a sweet, sincere kid with a great voice. His musical tastes do not intersect with mine, so I didn’t vote for him and I won’t buy his cd. But, I do wish him all the best.

Whether or not his dad is an overbearing stage dad isn’t really an issue for me either. Although I will say that I am naturally prejudiced against stage parents in general because I think they have the whole idea of parenting completely fucked up. So some people, including that reporter may be inclined to believe that Jeff Archuletta is a dick. But, it doesn’t mean they hold it against Archie.

Attempting to be objective, I’ll just say this: Archie’s fans aren’t obligated to defend Jeff to the press. And, all of the comments about having met him and what a great guy he is are just not evidence of anything. Spending 5 minutes with someone gives you no insight into their parenting skills.

So, if a reporter believes he’s a stage dad, nothing anyone says is going to change their mind. At that point, you’re only giving them a new subject to talk about – his crazy fanbase. That’s my point, and it applies to all of the various contestants. As a Taylor fan, it pained me to see some of the actions of the Soul Patrol. And, I hate to see it happen to anyone else – that’s where I’m coming from.

As a Taylor fan, it pained me to see some of the actions of the Soul Patrol. And, I hate to see it happen to anyone else – thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s where Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m coming from

From another Taylor fan, I concur.

Certainly this is no fanwar. This is a rational and friendly discussion. I actually pretty much agree with almost everything you said. I hate fanwars. I think it’s hurtful and senseless.

Brandon Rogers has a new Branson blog on myspace.

I guess the crazy Claymates can be blamed for keeping Clay’s wallet lined. He has done very well since his stint on Idol. And, yes, every fan base is a little over the top, IMO. That’s where the word fan comes from, fanatical.

Skylight, that may have been the case initially, but his last two cd’s sold badly, and his touring has been going just as poorly the last few years as well. That fervor might be good for a flash in the pan, but for longevity, people just lose interest if the music isn’t good, and imho his music has never really been good. Not even his best selling cd. Pure cheese all the way. There is ott, and then there is OTT x 10. That is the difference,lol.

It’s nice to see what a positive attitude Justin Guarini has. If anyone has the right to be bitter about Idol, it’s him. The post-idol rules from season one pretty much killed his momentum. After that, they changed all the rules for the rest of the run. By the time his CD came out, we’d moved on to Ruben and Clay.

That article about Archie “dropping out” is just silly. His only option now really is home school or private tutoring…as if he could realistically attend classes at his old high school anymore! Could you imagine how disruptive that would be? Lots of celeb kids are educated this way, it’s nothing outrageous or new.

From interviews and such Archie’s shown that he knows an education is important and that he needs a “backup plan” because the entertainment biz is always risky.

Off topic, but I just heard Magic Rainbow on the local radio here (Knoxville) for the first time. Woo-hoo!!

I think the problem Archie fans had with the journalist woman’s article about why she kept picking on his Dad is that, well, she kept picking on his Dad. I’ve read her pieces before, and she would throw in a pot shot against Jeff when none was called for. It was just in there, demeaning the hard work David put into competing on the show. None of the other contestants personal lives were so infused into reviews about the contestants’ performances. And it’s not just her, it’s so many other reporters. It became a big joke in the media, and wound up turning David into a joke.

Everybody should have been focused on how he performed on Tuesday night. Instead, they were speculating about what terrible thing his Dad might have done to him to make him perform his best that night. It’s an insult to David, and it was frustrating for his fans to read. Even when pretty much everybody agreed that David did well on a certain night, he wasn’t spared from cheap shots about his Dad. Frankly, it was unfair. David, by means of the cheap shots against his father, received the most negative publicity out of all the contestants. It’s ironic, though, considering how absolutely sweet, unassuming and humble David is.

And to this day it continues, this time with silly stories about him dropping out of school. Media outlets are actually picking up TMZ’s non-story about home schooling. However, TMZ added a twist–that it would be Jeff doing the schooling, causing the rest of the outlets to take more pot shots at David’s father. As far as I am aware, there’s no information whatsoever that Jeff will be the home school teacher. It’s not like he can’t afford a tutor, which is what most kids in his situation wind up having. Furthermore, David didn’t drop out to join the tour. He finished up his Junior year and is on summer vacation. The whole attempt to make it into a controversy is just a continuance of the lower-end media’s attempt to blast their chosen controversial AI contestant.

From that NY Daily News article:

Every time I write a post about “American Idol” runner-up David Archuleta, I can’t help but mention, and softly insult, his father, Jeff. In turn, Archie fans comment or email in droves to tell me what an awful person I am and accuse me of being bias, a father-hater and more.

I may be bias (David Cook was my man from the beginning, or at least right after he got his haircut) but I’m neither a father-hater nor “more” (unless by “more” you mean irresistibly adorable and smart).

BIASED, people. BIASED. BIAS is a noun. BIASED is an adjective. You can HAVE a bias, or you can be biased AGAINST someone. Unless you are talking about grains or cuts of fabric, which I suspect the NY Daily News is not. When I ran my Idol blog, I can’t tell you how many e-mails I used to get: “You’re so bias.” (Actually, most of them read “your so bias,” but now I’m just being extra-petty). Erroneous! BIASED, folks. BIASED, person who, as a journalist, should probably know better. BIASED.

Grr. Rant over.

LOL, Kat.

BIASED, people. BIASED. BIAS is a noun. BIASED is an adjective. You can HAVE a bias, or you can be biased AGAINST someone.

I assumed the journalist knew better and was imitating/mocking the emails and comments she received. At least I hope that’s what she was doing.

Jan, I just think the journalist, and I use that term loosely, is just bias, lol. She is silly I meant to say.

Kat, gotcha!

Soundscene, right on.

Hollygo9, I love Justin. He’s funny, intelligent,and is truly a gifted singer. I felt so sorry for him when his cd finally came out. He got to do Oprah…..the same day with Clay, and Ruben. Both were flying high with their ‘coronation’ songs, and he sorta got lost in the Ruben/Clay juggernaut. I adore him more now because he could be bitter, instead he continues to make lemonade from those damn lemons. Oh, and did I mention he is so darn cute.

SpenserJ, I am going to side with the Archie fans when it comes down to his father. This women admits that she loves taking potshots at Jeff. I say that David is the one who needs to deal with this when he is an adult if he father is indeed an issue.

It’s still a really really horrible idea for fans to spam her column, imho, especially if they are being nasty. In the end, nobody looks good.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve read her pieces before, and she would throw in a pot shot against Jeff when none was called for.

That’s because it’s her column, and she can. Filling the comments section with vitriol toward her only draws more attention to the situation.

There will always be gossip about celebrities. And, lots of it will be untrue. They, and their fans can learn to ignore it so they don’t have to suffer unnecessary heartbreak.

Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s because ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s her column, and she can. Filling the comments section with vitriol toward her only draws more attention to the situation.

There will always be gossip about celebrities. And, lots of it will be untrue. They, and their fans can learn to ignore it so they donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have to suffer unnecessary heartbreak.

I never called for mass spamming of her column. I think that comments disagreeing with her position are fine if they are well thought-out. I’m not a fan of ignorant comments, even if they are arguing the same position that I generally would take.

Yes, it’s her column, but I’m explaining why Archie fans have a problem with it. Simply because she can say it doesn’t mean people can’t disagree and comment. Personally, I find her type of blogging to involve lazy thinking. She couldn’t review the show without attempting to sensationalize the subject matter with her own commentary on a person that isn’t even a contestant. It’s the TMZ-style of media blogging. I don’t care for it here just as I don’t care for it in other contexts.

Every ‘fan’ has established some sort of emotional connection to the object of their worship. It can be lust, as Cook fans have openly admitted to, or inspiration such as David A fans talk about, or any number of things, but when that connection is made and the fan’s life changes, they need to feel validated.

And with American Idol, when time is spent blogging, calling, and voting hours on end, the need for validation is even stronger. I think that’s why some find it so hard when the competition has ended. The winner’s fans feel validated, but insecure that their validation will last, and the loser’s fans search desperately for that validation in other ways.

And, here I am blogging after the competition is over. Where does that leave me I ask you?! Laughing at myself.

I don’t like the two Davids being compared just as much as I don’t like the David Cook fans being labeled crazy like the “Claymates”. Very unnecessary.

And with American Idol, when time is spent blogging, calling, and voting hours on end, the need for validation is even stronger. I think thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s why some find it so hard when the competition has ended. The winnerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans feel validated, but insecure that their validation will last, and the loserà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans search desperately for that validation in other ways.

I don’t think I’ve seen it put so succinctly! That is it in a nutshell.

Mj, I agree with you that it looks real bad, and even as an Archie fan who disagrees with all of the Jeff bashing, I can’t bring myself to spam this idiots comment section. I don’t really care to even read that stuff most of the time. I do feel the pain of the fan who actually thinks she/he is contributing something positive. They actually aren’t, but are to engaged to notice.

Having been a around since the Clay-mania of season 2, I have to agree that silence is always the best choice. Sending motherly e-mails to ass hole “journalists” has never done any good at all, other than to help label all of Clay’s fans as over-the-top lonely housewives without lives.

It happens every year, unfortunately — the 2 David’s fans are nothing new.

elle hit it on the head with her post. We cannot control our favorite’s future — all we can do is support them in a respectful manner.

Having been a around since the Clay-mania of season 2, I have to agree that silence is always the best choice. Sending motherly e-mails to ass hole à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“journalistsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  has never done any good at all, other than to help label all of Clayà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans as over-the-top lonely housewives without lives.

It happens every year, unfortunately à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’ 

AMEN!

Not starting (or continuing) a fanwar, just reporting a fact, which seems very relevant to this thread.
Archie’s main fansite now has a new section devoted exclusively to “Stop Archie Defamers”. So it’s called S.A.D.
Indeed.

It stands for Stop Archie Defamers, and its sole purpose is to comment over websites, videos on YouTube or others, hate blogs, etcà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦

catdog Jun 19th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like the two Davids being compared just as much as I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like the David Cook fans being labeled crazy like the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Claymatesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . Very unnecessary.

I think its unnecessary to label claymates as crazy. They were the first AI fanbase to make the mistake of being defensive and they learned from the fanwars how dirty it can get. The thing is that they didn’t have any predecessors to learn from. The AI fan and anti-fan antics were a new phenomenon back then. Those that now react like the claymates did have a template to follow on what not to do. The thing that amazes me is that they know better but do it anyway.

Ugh @ SAD. It makes me sad, no pun intended. Nobody learns from the past. It’s ridiculous.

It stands for Stop Archie Defamers, and its sole purpose is to comment over websites, videos on YouTube or others, hate blogs, etcà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦

Organized group efforts like that are always obvious, which is why they backfire. Also, any blogger can recognize group efforts just from looking at blog stats. From my list of referrals, I can see which blogs are linking to me. It can be really amusing to trace some of those links back to the source.

Still, you won’t convince me that what the Archies are doing there is out of the ordinary, or that rabid members of any fanbase, including the cookies, aren’t capable of the same behavior.

^^^^^ What MJ said!

Right now some idiot is at war with another idiot on YouTube, and it’s just like Groundhog Day, every year, I go to sleep and every late spring, early summer is the same damn thing……..over, and over again.

Still, you wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t convince me that what the Archies are doing there is out of the ordinary, or that rabid members of any fanbase, including the cookies, arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t capable of the same behavior

I completely agree (and have said earlier) that every fanbase has its crazies, and when pushed, every fanbase has the potential to lash out and cause damage. I still think the volume (as in raw numbers) of rabid fans is not the same, nor is their vocality.
I attribute this, to some degree, to what elle described earlier:

The winnerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans feel validated, but insecure that their validation will last, and the loserà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans search desperately for that validation in other ways.

If Clay had won Idol, would his fans have been as “passionate”? I saw many attribute his early success to his fans feeling slighted and cheated out of a victory, and thus trying to “prove AI wrong” by buying multiple copies etc.
Isn’t this and the mass spamming campaigns coming from the same place?
I think the runner-up is naturally predisposed to have a more “Claymate” like fanbase, simply because those fans feel they have more to prove, and feel the need to be vocal about it, to compensate – our Idol may not have the biggest fanbase, but look how strong and powerful his fanbase is!
Of course, YMMV, this is my subjective take on things.

On the Cookie fan forum where I spend much of my time, many posters there are adamantly refraining from responding to the NY article. It’s clear from the context that the writer prefers a certain kind of musician and would never understand the
appeal of David Cook, and there’s no use trying to argue. Cook has far from a monolithic fan base, and some of them will engage in behavior that others won’t.

And not to dwell on it, but I wouldn’t equate the opinions of the TWOP moderators on the Cook fanbase as representative of the general public. And that is all I will say about that.

Its a good theory, Jolene, except it doesn’t account for the same type of defensive behavior from the fans of the winners, because they can be very defensive over their favorite’s status as the rightful winner when others question if the “right one” won. They also have something to prove, that they backed the right horse, so to speak.

I think its unnecessary to label claymates as crazy. They were the first AI fanbase to make the mistake of being defensive and they learned from the fanwars how dirty it can get. The thing is that they didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have any predecessors to learn from. The AI fan and anti-fan antics were a new phenomenon back then. Those that now react like the claymates did have a template to follow on what not to do. The thing that amazes me is that they know better but do it anyway.

So true, I am a Claymate and a Clayfan but I am embarrassed by some fans who continue to make themselves look ridiculous by actually fighting with people on assorted websites, especially the tabloid ones. What a waste of time. It’s no wonder Claymates are labeled as such.

I agree with gelfling – Soul Patrol being case in point of a winner’s group still acting ridiculous after the win.

I sort of wonder how much of this would be eliminated with changes in the voting system. We all know the best or even most popular person doesn’t always win. If more accurate numbers were put out there, there would be less need for defensiveness on the part of both winners and losers.

But then, where would that leave the AI ratings?!

I’m wondering at what point does fan reaction cross the line?

Some articles and blogs are deliberately inflammatory and over the top. Aren’t they looking for a reaction? If there was none, wouldn’t it look as if the target had no support?

The same goes for all the polls. If one group of fans storms a poll and the other ignores a poll, does it appear that only one artist has support?

In the end I think that a successful album/product will outweigh all of these things and critical acclaim and sales will be a meaningful measure – but in the meantime should a fan go into hiding?

I sort of wonder how much of this would be eliminated with changes in the voting system. We all know the best or even most popular person doesnà ¢Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€š ¬Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€ž ¢t always win. If more accurate numbers were put out there, there would be less need for defensiveness on the part of both winners and losers.

Oh, I don’t think it would make a difference. Then people would argue whether the released statistics were accurate, whether so-and-so was more ‘marketable” than their rival, who’s a better singer… in other words, the same old stuff. I really think that because AI is a competition, the whole Idol vs. Idol thing just keeps going after it’s all over. The culture of the show is to pick at favorite and root for them at the expense of the others. TPTB can’t turn that off when the contest ends. Fans stay in battle mode. Unfortunate reality, but it is what it is.

Soul Patrol being case in point of a winnerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s group still acting ridiculous after the win.

Correct me if I’m wrong, because I haven’t watched the show prior to this season, so my knowledge is second-hand, but isn’t it common lore that Taylor was never treated as winner, and that since his win AI has been trying to revise history and pretend Daughtry was the one who won instead?
When people said DC shouldn’t win because Daughtry didn’t, and look at him now, my argument was always that Daughtry got the promotion and backing of a winner. If he got this at Taylor’s expense, I don’t see it as quite the poster case on which to base or discredit a theory.

they can be very defensive over their favoriteà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s status as the rightful winner when others question if the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“right oneà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  won. They also have something to prove, that they backed the right horse, so to speak.

Of course, but those fans have already been validated by the win. Now all they have to do is maintain that feeling of validation, which IMO is much easier than gaining it in the first place. So someone says “The wrong guy won”? That’s easier to laugh off when 200 other places are backing the winner. Case in point – NY Mag. I could care less. Some are more sensitive than others and do comment, but I’ve seen no huge outrage and “OMG, let’s all write that SOB and show him a piece of our mind”.

When people said DC shouldnà ¢Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€š ¬Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€ž ¢t win because Daughtry didnà ¢Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€š ¬Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€ž ¢t, and look at him now, my argument was always that Daughtry got the promotion and backing of a winner. If he got this at Taylorà ¢Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€š ¬Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€ž ¢s expense, I donà ¢Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€š ¬Ãƒâ€šÃ¢â€ž ¢t see it as quite the poster case on which to base or discredit a theory.

I kinda agree with this. Taylor won, but Simon hated him, lots in the media thought he was a joke, and he always kinda felt like the underdog. He’s the only winner whose fanbase has as bad of a rep as a result, IMO. They were working overtime to defend him, and themselves, since they were labeled all old horny grannies from the get go. LOL. I think he’s a bit of a special case.

But I still maintain that the crazy lurks in all the Idol fanbases, based on the reasons I posted before. It’s just whose base feels like their back is more up against the wall, like they are “losing” and have somehting to prove. Negative media attention plus 19E disintrest plus undervaluing of contstant’s talent plus high finish in the contest generally equals the crazy. LOL.

This conversation has answered some questions that I had. I was a late comer to AI, and even after I started watching it, was only casual about it until this year. Given that my favorite had never won, I rather assumed that that was going to continue to be the case. Getting more into it this year because I liked Cook, I was wondering whether this year was somehow unique, in that it sometimes has seemed like any criticism of one of the Davids led to a round of “you must be biased against MY preferred David,” which was especially strange to me in that the Davids actually seem to like and respect each other. But it sounds like this has happened a lot in the past….

Ah, well. I read a few of the NY Mag pieces during the season and generally found them to be trying too hard to be funny, and failing. I guess that some things have not changed….

Jolene Jun 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

Of course, but those fans have already been validated by the win. Now all they have to do is maintain that feeling of validation, which IMO is much easier than gaining it in the first place. So someone says à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The wrong guy wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ? Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s easier to laugh off when 200 other places are backing the winner.

This does not hold up over time. The new winner is always the flavor of the moment and gets a ton of attention but it tapers off. After the initial rush when your favorite wins, the media and the critics get the competition ramped up to create controversy and attract hits to their blogs and sell their papers. They will float rumors, unfavorably compare one artist against another regardless of the fact that they have little in common besides having once been an AI contestant. It becomes a predictable pattern.

Stick around a few seasons. If you want to observe the war between 2 winners’ fanbases, check out the bitter feud between the Kelly and Carrie fans at Sucks.

AI breeds fan insanity because the fan votes give them the careers. Once the competition is over, some fans develop an ownership over the contestants but outside of buying their music, going to concerts, etc, their role is diminished. That can be hard to adjust to so people get involved in responding to obscure blogs, etc. The irony is is that the more successful the idol, the less important the individual fan is. If the idol doesn’t have much of a career, their fan base is much more important.

Cookie is featured on MySpace today…

Celebrity Q&A with David Cook

I think AI breeds fan insanity by pushing unlimited voting. They are getting everyone who votes multiple times to invest in a contestant, saying far more about the voter than the actual object of their affection. I admit that I think I have obsessive-compulsive tendencies (or maybe I’m just competitive) and when I like someone, I can’t help voting, even though I’ve said a hundred times I’ll never do it again. Anyway, once you’ve become invested because you spent hours on the phone pressingr redial or sending thousands of texts, you’re hooked and AI knows it. It’s like the Publishers House Sweepstakes where they make you move the little sticker of the convertible (which color do you want?) to your postcard before you send it back. It’s called an involvement device, and AI has taken it to new heights. They play on the public need to be involved times 2000 or however many times people vote. And once people become invested in not just one Idol, but in the show itself, picking a new fave every year and passing on their voting strategies and writing every day on message boards and buying stuff for their Idols and camping out in parking lots to get to meet them or get backstage… It’s like being a fan of a baseball team or your college in the Rosebowl. It’s a pretty human thing to want to be part of something like that, to root, to get invested. I think it’s why AI works so well in the first place, but also why it creates crazy fans who get a toe or two or three over the line.

Nature of the beast, you know?

Wow, what an insightful discussion. I loved reading this very civilized and articulate debate. And, hot damn am I a troublemaker or what (sorry MJ, hugs!). LOL, but seriously I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s take on this type of stuff, and I’ve learned a few things in the process. As far as the unflattering online articles about your favorites go, I think I may have figured out the moral to the story…..

When you read one of those harsh, and perhaps innacurate articles, and the rage starts to boil up inside you, take a deep breath. And, instead of posting a scathing comment on that site, come here instead. Provided you stay within MJ’s guidelines, and post in a thread that is relevent to the topic, your MJ family will indulge your rant.

Some of us may read it and say “uh oh, she’s gone round the bend”, but we’ll still like you anyway. And, MJ will never use you as an object of ridicule like those reporters will!

I’m going to call this the step back, breath, then type in a friendly forum theory. And, I think I’m going to need a Patent attorney.

SpenserJ – I go back to my question about if a fan should respond to some of those articles. Would it look like the target had no fans if no one responded or only non-fans responded?

So far my only thought is – take a deep breath – wait and see if others respond first – and if it is necessary to respond – be witty, non-attacking, non-fangirly and try to add to the conversation with a fresh angle.

My favorite tactic is to pull up a blank email, write the most scathing, snotty, bitchy diatribe I can think up, and then delete it without sending it. (But don’t write a recipient in the TO: line, because you can accidentally send. So leave that line blank.)

It will make you feel better but not make the person who wrote the piece you disagree with get all excited and triumphant that they got the response and the buzz and the attention they were looking for.

Vent-rant-delete is my method.

I wouldn’t respond to any articles unless they were inaccurate to the point of being defamatory. If some one hates an Idol’s personality, think they stink/are ugly, can’t sing, etc., that’s their opinion. Comments about an idol’s family are different. I could see a few comments from fans but not a campaign.

What’s the point of responding anyway? Do comments like “He’s the greatest ever. You’re an idiot” change anyone’s mind. When I see tons of comments, I start to wonder why the person needs such an big defense.

Vent-rant-delete is my method.

Smartcookie, I used to do that one a lot at work LOL.

Generally a pretty good strategy. As long as you haven’t filled in the email address and risk an accidental send.

When mtv.com had that ridiculous essay trying to link DC’s win to everything that that author gates about red states, there were some fantastic responses, really gutting the point, complaining about yet another attempt to assert a wedge between so-called blue and red states, and also saying, geez, maybe (as you later claimed) you were trying to be tongue-in-cheek, but you failed. But then, the next week, all of the “excerpted” responses were from mega-fans essentially saying that the author stunk. And, you know, that assessment of the author might actually be correct, but it isn’t what you’d call persuasive. Plus it enabled the author to pretend that the responses were just mega-fans foaming at the mouth, and to ignore the more substantive comments.

Mj, you run a helluva place here. This discussion today, and the ones still going on in the Taylor topics have been civil, and truly full of interesting content.

See SpenserJ, no fanwars today. Incredible. I like the idea of ranting and deleting. I think a poster does that here, and I often wonder what he/she is deleting. Would probably start an interesting conversation.

This show gives us all a bit of agita, and even more pleasure, otherwise why do we keep coming back most of us year after year? Maybe in a small part because of communities like these where we can exercise our compulsion and not drive our families crazy!

Well I am off to spam the comment section of some article……. j/k!

it enabled the author to pretend that the responses were just mega-fans foaming at the mouth, and to ignore the more substantive comments.

That I think is the greatest problem with spam campaigns. People are not going to respond to what they would perceive as “bullying” or “censorship”. A person’s natural response to that is to fight back.

Since I’ve only been active in boards and stuff during this season, I can’t speak about the fanbases of the prior idols. But I saw the spam commenting in the Ellen boards when Simon talked about preferring David Cook there. I thought it was outrageous that people were censoring Ellen and Simon. And again so as not to unfairly paint a picture of the Archies, I am sure that some Cookies are guilty of the same behavior as well (i.e, the vitriol that is directed at Kimberly Caldwell).

I agree with the poster upthread who said that a lot of it has to do with wanting to feel validated. Unfortunately for many people, they get so invested in their “idols” that they feel it is their duty to rid the world of every single negative comment about their idol. It is pointless in the end, but for the time that it takes them to send that email or post that comment, they feel better about themselves. Sad, but true.

Part of it too, however, is that superfans feel that when their Idol is attacked, they are being attacked. And there is, sadly, a small kernel of truth in this sometimes. Especially with Taylor (who I’ll just use as an example because S5 was the first season I really followed), press reaction to the win was not only of the “he shouldn’t have won” variety but also of the “who the hell was voting for this loser?” variety. And since then, his fanbase has been branded negatively and stereotyped. True, the spam campaigns aren’t exactly helping that image, and those people really should consider whether it’s worth it to hit the “enter” key, but in some way I think I understand their motivation.

As to the question of does it look like the target of negative press has no fans if non respond, let me just say that at the end of the day, the best way to respond is with your wallet. Buy his albums. End of story. Trying to change peoples opinions is like trying to argue with the crazy short guy in the insane asylum with the paper hat on his head who insists he is Napolean. You will lose.

Mj, you run a helluva place here. This discussion today, and the ones still going on in the Taylor topics have been civil, and truly full of interesting content.

. It’s you guys. Ya all are pretty awesome.

Oh this discussion hit home with me. Mj actually taught me to “breathe”. My first time ever posting on a blog was here and ya should seen me a time or two, well most have. AI certainly did create a new way to direct a fans “passion” but it has all been inside us(most of us). I remember watching old stuff of fainting, crying fans going wild over the Beatles and thought – please – are you kidding me? Then this past year I found myself being told by MJ to just “breathe” before I ran to the rescue of Jason. I laugh at myself now but this blog has created hours of fun for me in particular.

But then, the next week, all of the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“excerptedà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  responses were from mega-fans essentially saying that the author stunk…. Plus it enabled the author to pretend that the responses were just mega-fans foaming at the mouth, and to ignore the more substantive comments.

That’s the main reason any spam campaign like this is futile and self-defeating in terms of actually changing the tenor of a conversation — you’re going into someone else’s sandbox, where they control the space. Any site owner can delete your comments, some can actually edit them, and of course the owner can put up whatever new front item they want. If the original owner is either hostile or defensive, spamming them only hands them a choice of ammunition.

But maybe it’s effective in the larger sense at increasing the noise about a contestant? People generally don’t post a lot about something if they aren’t getting input — you’d expect the Idol stuff to die off pretty quickly post-finale, until the albums start coming out. Fan-warring keeps the hits and comments coming pretty reliably, which could potentially lure bloggers into writing more.

It kind of makes me want to see someone do a love:crazy ratio tracker that would track the “yay woo” comments on positive articles/blogs about an idol, take away for the “boo hiss” comments on negative articles/blogs and the “no this one sucks my idol is BETTER” comments. It would be interesting and possibly drive fanbases to compete to up their “love” scores instead of their “crazy”. *g*

I am pretty much laid back to posters’ comments. I have sent several emails to FOX.com regarding all sorts of complaints from Paulagate to Constantine’s comments about Archie. They really need to make some major changes in the show next year.

Now, if someone disagrees with me. Fine. It won’t change my mind. ;o)