Idol Headlines for 10/06/09

Look at all the Allison headlines! Go Allison!

Btw MJ your blog is like crack and I can’t stay off the pipe.

So far this year 11 albums have topped the 1 million-unit mark, the same number as in 2008. In 2008, the top seller was Lil Wayne’s “Tha Carter III,” at 2.5 million units; this year’s top seller is Jackson’s “Number Ones,” at 1.8 million units.

NO ONE should think that any of the Idols will ever again sell units like Kelly and Carrie and Daughtry and Clay did. AIN’T ever going to happen again. If this trend keeps up I am sure the industry is going to reevaluate the required number of units sold to award a gold or platinum record. Just like gold went from a million to 500,000 I think the required amount will have to be re-adjusted, again.

And for the sake of argument gold and platinum aren’t relative to what happened five or ten years ago….albums should be judged on how they sell in relation to any and all current albums. If the top line drops then it is only statistically viable to drop the base line, too.

So if any of the current idols hit the million mark they are “way exceeding expectations” and if they hit 500,000 they are really golden.
So congrats to DA and DC for doing so well with their debut albums…much better than the norm for the industry.

I hear you, Tess. Album sales just continue to look bleaker and bleaker, which is a shame. I fear for a music world where artists don’t even release albums anymore, and we only get scattered singles here and there.

Look at all the Allison headlines! Go Allison!

Too bad a lot of them aren’t superhappy with the song. I agree with the criticisms. I love Allison’s voice, and, while this song is no doubt catchy, and probably has HIT written all over it, the massive overprocessing of Allison’s voice on it makes it so anyone of a number of Disney princesses could be singing. I want my distinctive Allison gravelly rock voice, dammit!

A new Glee song “Keep Holding On”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjta2wBQLGI

You’d think Lindsey wouldn’t call Allison the runner-up. Unless all who are not the winner are technically runners up.

I really love the Allison song, I can’t wait to hear the album. I think we’ll get our wish for the gravelly voiced ballad, but for a first single to introduce her to a new non-idol audience, I think it will do the job. I know the single cover is a little slick, but I really like it.

Look at all the Allison headlines! Go Allison!

Except most of the reviews behind those headlines arent exactly positive….

Latin category leads the decliners so far this year, with a 35.1% slump to 12.6 million units. Rock sales dropped 11.5% to 88.1 million units. R&B (which includes rap) fell 6.6% to 51.4 million units. Country was off just 1.7% to 30.3 million units

I’m surprised Rock dropped so much– thought Rock is supposed to move albums? Country only dropped 1.7%, no wonder everyone’s going country, heh. But Rock is a much bigger category, so it has higher to fall from, I suppose. Too bad no Pop category stats. I’m thinking if Rock dropped 11.5%, Pop would’ve suffered more.

All We Ever Wanted: Five Songs Kelly Clarkson Must Sing

Someone posted her current tour setlist earlier. Can anyone link? I’m seeing her soon .

David Cook extends debut push into fall

Nice little blurb, but too bad the list on the side isn’t that current. The 3 new dates in Dallas, Houston and Milwaukee aren’t on the list.

NO ONE should think that any of the Idols will ever again sell units like Kelly and Carrie and Daughtry and Clay did. AIN’T ever going to happen again. If this trend keeps up I am sure the industry is going to reevaluate the required number of units sold to award a gold or platinum record. Just like gold went from a million to 500,000 I think the required amount will have to be re-adjusted, again.

The theme music for the 80′s was the 1979 MTV hit “Video Killed the Radio Star”; the theme music for the 2010′s could be “Heartbreak on Vinyl”.

Most industry experts know that the “Album” is a dying concept. The fact that the 2009 Billboard album charts are filled with reissues of music from 25+ years ago is just on sign of how bad it is. The rmaining exception is Country music which has been transitioning to digital sales at a slower rate – so I think Carrie’s new album should have strong sales.

But the days of the album are ending: Look at Lady Gaga — she only the third artist in the history of Billboard’s Mainstream Top 40 airplay chart to snag three #1 songs from a debut album — her singles have reached #1 in 15 countries, internationally she has sold more than 20 million digital singles, but the album has sold only 1.4 million US and 3 million copies worldwide. And her reissue of “The Fame” on 11/24/09 is a platinum album reissue — designed to generate sales revenue not sales units.

The remaining US “non-digital” commercial distribution system is based on albums, and the major labels control the album market, so they will be around for a while. But the days of measuring an artist’s success by album sales are over. Some people are now using album equivalants (agregating digital track sales) to rank artists. My guess is that unless a new, more capable form of physical music media is invented, the vast majority of music sales will be digital and albums sales will become dominiated by reissues and “platinum” albums.

Too bad a lot of them aren’t superhappy with the song.

Well that sucks! Has the first single of an AI alumnus ever been received positively?

Do the itunes sales numbers come out today?

Too bad a lot of them aren’t superhappy with the song.

It’s split down the middle. Slezak and Lindsey Parker like it. Jim Cantiello and Maura Johnston, not so much.

And I disagree that Allison’s vocals are horribly over processed. I can hear her distinctive raspiness on the verses–the chorus has the most autotuning.

Is it the greatest song evah? Nope. Is Allison capable of better material? Yep. (so is Kelly Clarkson for that matter, for realz)

But this is an Idol debut release. I got exactly what I expected. And as radio singles go, it’s catchy and fun. I wouldn’t turn it off my car radio.

MJ, has there ever been a first release that really captured the contestant’s essence or whatever? I don’t think LO is a great song, but I did think it was “Cook.”

For Adam, Kris, and Allison (Danny too). Individual song and album reviews really need to be analyzed and dissected before taking to heart anything the review says. For instance….any reviewer (ie Jim, Michael, Lindsay, “Idolator”, etc) who have had and still have a vested interest in AI aren’t looking at the song/album the same way a typical music critic is for a newbie release. The AI writers have built in biases, either negative or positive (as demonstrated by earlier articles) and have a built in presumption about what they feel the album/song should feel like and sound like. And this will definitely skew their critique.

For me, I’d rather wait and have someone judge the song(s) from a fresh perspective. Kris is being judged (rather unfairly by some) as to whether his stuff reflects the singer/songwriter persona they were hoping for, whereas Allison’s current reviewers are all about her “rock” voice. The new material they issue should be judged solely on its own merit…whether it is representative of what the idol did on AI is beyond the scope of a “good” review.

So, just like reading a new book by an author we adore…even though it is almost impossible to do so…it really needs to be judged as a stand alone project. I guess that is why I take all reviews (movies, books, songs) with the proverbial grain of salt. It is the rare mortal, indeed, who can peel away all the prejudices and measure the value of something on its own merits.

Too bad a lot of them aren’t superhappy with the song.

Reviews don’t matter much. Daughtry always get so-so reviews, it hasn’t stopped them selling!!

But the days of measuring an artist’s success by album sales are over.

you’ve hit the nail on the head with this statement… quantifying ”success” strictly based on the death spiral album sales are in is gone… you and tess bring up some very salient points, and hard truths that must be faced… the paradigms in our heads as fans must begin shifting away from declaring success for artists, and not just our idol faves, based on album sales…

MJ, has there ever been a first release that really captured the contestant’s essence or whatever?

In my opinion, no.

Too bad a lot of them aren’t superhappy with the song. I agree with the criticisms. I love Allison’s voice, and, while this song is no doubt catchy, and probably has HIT written all over it, the massive overprocessing of Allison’s voice on it makes it so anyone of a number of Disney princesses could be singing. I want my distinctive Allison gravelly rock voice, dammit!

Totally agree with you.

I wanted to check with my 15 and 18 year old nieces to see what they thought of the song (they had not heard Allison before – I have made sure they listen to Adam, though). Well, when I played the song for them (without any previous comment on my part, just listen to this and tell me what you think). Well, they thought it was a song for 10-12 year old kids. They have Lady GaGa and Beyonce in their iPods. (We are in Spain).

I think “Jesus Take the Wheel” captured Carrie better than any other Idol first single. Perhaps not the greatest song, but solid and certainly very Carrie.

The AI writers have built in biases, either negative or positive (as demonstrated by earlier articles) and have a built in presumption about what they feel the album/song should feel like and sound like. And this will definitely skew their critique.

So, just like reading a new book by an author we adore’ ¦even though it is almost impossible to do so’ ¦it really needs to be judged as a stand alone project. I guess that is why I take all reviews (movies, books, songs) with the proverbial grain of salt.

It is the rare mortal, indeed, who can peel away all the prejudices and measure the value of something on its own merits.

well said tess…

I’ve got to agree with MJ on this one. It’s really catchy and it’s something I’ll enjoy listening to on radio.
I think Jive swerved lot of fans with their two artists so far but I believe they have good reasons for doing so. After idol, they need to introduce these kids to the outside idol world. In this case they need materials that will get a lot of air-play even if it doesn’t translate into sales immediately.
By doing so, their names will be on air till their albums drop which to me, is a wonderful idea. I believe Allisons single will get lots of air-play too. I personally like the song and I’m not a teen.

If you can’t judge artist’s success on album sales anymore..and radio is basically dying in terms of relevance…what IS the best way to judge success?

what IS the best way to judge success?

Longevity!

David Cook is coming to my state again! Joy! Rapture!! Thank you, thank you, Anthemics for scheduling that date in Milwaukee. I don’t care if I work the next day; don’t care if there’s a blizzard – I’m going.

ps – there’s also been an Atlanta date added

Methinks someone might have gotten a bit trashed last night and will have a hangover this morning. Hope he doesn’t have an early recording session! But it sounds llike he was having some much deserved fun with his friends…

KrisAllen4real

# Just burst out into “and I’m proud to be an American” really loud in the car with my friends.about 7 hours ago from Echofon

MJ, has there ever been a first release that really captured the contestant’s essence or whatever?

What about Daughtry’s It’s Not Over? I think that song sounds just like all his other songs, so I’d say it’s pretty quintessentially Daughtry. That said, I didn’t watch his season. Was he not like that on the show? On a related note, is that the only first Idol release that was written/cowritten by the Idol? Cuz if so… I’d say there’s a correlation there.

Some people are now using album equivalants (agregating digital track sales) to rank artists.

Makes a LOT of sense to me. Are there sites who do that, since Billboard isn’t compiling this very useful info?

I agree, springboard. Great reviews or not, I think Allison has a very good chance of having a hit with this song. It sounds very Top 40ish and in line with what’s popular among teens/pre-teens. Personally, I don’t love it (even though I LOVE Allison) but my 11 year old thought it was AWESOME and wants to download it asap.

I think ‘Jesus Take the Wheel’  captured Carrie better than any other Idol first single.

What about Daughtry’s It’s Not Over? I think that song sounds just like all his other songs, so I’d say it’s pretty quintessentially Daughtry. That said, I didn’t watch his season. Was he not like that on the show?

ETA:

• Jesus Take the Wheel captured Carrie pretty well, I’ll agree there. Although her first album was uneven–typical Idol album. The album was country, but Clive made sure to include some pop tunes–hedging his bets, probably.
• I keep forgetting about Daughtry. lol. I’d say his entire first album was very typical of what he did on the show, and captured his essence.
• I didn’t think David Cook’s “Light On” was a great first single, and it felt like to me, he was forced to sing generic fly-over rock–a style he wouldn’t choose to sing on his own.
• “Crush” was a good first single for David Archuleta, age appropriate, but not too seriously teenybopper–although it wasn’t like anything he sang on the show. David is still figuring out who he is.
• I was probably one of the few peeps on earth who liked Blake Lewis’s “Break Anotha” but Blake, himself, didn’t think it was a good first single, and he turned out to be right.
• Bo Bice was auto-tuned and pop/rocked into oblivion, poor guy
• Kelly wouldn’t find her stride until her second album
• Both Ruben and Fantasia had sub-par debut albums. Fantasia’s best single came off her second album.
• Taylor and Katharine. Eep. No.
• Jordin’s first single “Tattoo” was generic, and didn’t tell you much about Jordin. But, she’s a cypher. TPTB didn’t have much to work with.

Other than Daughtry, the rest of the Idol debut albums have snatches here and there of the Idols essence, but all are uneven.

Tess,
You summed it up really well. When Kris’ single dropped, I didn’t care about most of the reviews from idol – related critics.
Meanwhile I loved the fact that lots of critics outside the idol circle also gave it good reviews because clearly, they were viewing it from the non idol music buyer’s point of view.
I’m therefore looking out for Allison’s too. If they come positive as did Kris’ I’ll be happy for her.

ETA: Longevity is the word, Tess, you nailed it. These Kids are just begining and if they are lucky to get the big sales, it’s all good but I’ll rather build up a long career than have big sales in the begining and run down later. We have seen a lot of AI alumns face problems like that. That is why I love Jive. They seem to be building the artists. Look at Jordin, she’s climbing though slow, it’s seems like success to me.

Strong sales are very challenging to accomplish at this current economic situation. If you are an established business , you are lucky if you can maintain 2008 levels , and if you increase your business even by just 2% you are given kudos, and if you increase even by 5% you become a mogul. In 2001 when businesses grew by as much as 22%, it was just the norm.

The challenges for a new comer is perceived to be greater. But on the other hand being fresh provides a natural attraction . How to stay in business for a longer period of time, is the bigger challenge.

Here’s an article published earlier this year that provides sales information on American Idol singers. If given that they earned only a dollar for each album sold then it is still good living. A lot they can be thankful to the show for. So whether the current Season 8 earn millions or not, the door opened for them. They got their chance. If it got slammed shut by now, they should have been quick enough to wedge it.

American Idol Alum Sales as of March 2009

Most industry experts know that the ‘Album’  is a dying concept. The fact that the 2009 Billboard album charts are filled with reissues of music from 25+ years ago is just on sign of how bad it is. The rmaining exception is Country music which has been transitioning to digital sales at a slower rate ‘“ so I think Carrie’s new album should have strong sales.

I thought there was an article in the not too distant past about how the music industry (Itunes specifically) is trying to address this by offering art — like album covers used to have — special performances and other goodies that you can only get by purchasing an “album.”

disappointing debut singles from kris and allison are worrying me if adams debut single isnt gonna live up to the hype

girlygirl
October 6, 2009 at 11:18 am
Methinks someone might have gotten a bit trashed last night and will have a hangover this morning. Hope he doesn’t have an early recording session! But it sounds llike he was having some much deserved fun with his friends’ ¦

KrisAllen4real

# Just burst out into ‘and I’m proud to be an American’  really loud in the car with my friends.about 7 hours ago from Echofon

Girlygirl, is Kris still in L.A.? I’m glad he’s getting a chance to have fun with friends! I didn’t realize he had alot of friends in LA yet, but cool!

disappointing debut singles from kris and allison are worrying me if adams debut single isnt gonna live up to the hype

Well, he’s got two chances, w/ Time for Miracles and TBA.

Well, he’s got two chances, w/ Time for Miracles and TBA.

I still can’t get over how tightly under wraps everything is – it’s a freaking song for pete sake.

CindyM

I’m pretty positive he’s in L.A. With the album deadline less than 10 days away. he doesn’t really have time to go back to Arkansas. And we saw photos of him hanging out with a couple of his friends from Arkansas at The Grove in L.A. just before Kris went off to London — so I’m thinking that several of his friends are staying out here for awhile and/or have decided to move out here.

We have a new date posted at DCO:

Nov 23 (Mon) 7:00 PM (Atlanta, GA)
THE TABERNACLE

I’m not disappointed in either Kris or Allison’s debut singles. Guess I’m easy. Like both more than LO and Crush from last year.

I still can’t get over how tightly under wraps everything is ‘“ it’s a freaking song for pete sake.

They better be good, after all the hype.

Boy, Cook really loves touring…

I’ll be surprised if Adam’s single DOES live up to the hype, considering the OTT praise coming out of his recording sessions. The expectations are so high, at least among his hardcore AI fanbase, that unless this single is absolutely amazing and shoots right up to #1, it’s gonna end up not living up to all the hype.

I’m just hoping for a strong single that shows off Adam’s strengths as a musician and does well on the charts. I’m not expecting the most amazing song ever written or expecting it to go straight to the top of the charts. I’d be pleasantly surprised if it ever gets anywhere near #1.

Boy, Cook really loves touring’ ¦

He’s driving me insane!!! Washington DC, you fool!!!

Someone posted on Idol Forums that Adam, Kris and Allison will be doing Walmart Soundchecks. From what I understand, Carrie Underwood has already recorded a soundcheck in support of her new album and it is scheduled to come out October 15th.

Since Carrie’s album is due out November 3rd and her Walmart Soundcheck goes live October 15th, someone calculated the others’ dates as follows:

Kris: October 22nd
Adam: October 29th
Allison: November 3rd

Apparently the artists do an in studio performance with an audience and based on Carrie’s promo she will perform her newly released single as well as other cuts from the album. Plus there is an interview.

I’m excited.

I’d be pleasantly surprised if it ever gets anywhere near #1.

I’d be pleasantly surprised if it even sounded like him at this point.

What’s a Walmart Soundcheck? Where does that take place?

But the remuneration to the artists is also going to have to change, since in the past, album sales were how they made most of their money. They’ve depended on touring to fill in the gaps left by declining album sales for awhile, but when the price of gas spiked, it became a lot more expensive to send out bus and truck shows, plus fewer people could cover their own gas and ticket prices. So now they have to add merchandise, private (corporate mostly) performances, commercial tie-ins and sponsor deals, putting their pretty faces in ads and on Dancing with the Stars or other nonsense shows, etc. to try to earn enough to support making another album and buy studio time and video directors and film crews and everything else they need to start the whole parade all over again. I mean, when Bruce Springsteen has an exclusive with WalMart, what is the world coming to?

Meanwhile, the world of radio has also changed (hugely with iPods, now a little more with iPhones) and that model of spins + sales doesn’t really work to gauge what is and isn’t a hit, plus spending money to send your artist around to a bunch of radio stations may not be the most effective promo. Youtube, Facebook, Myspace and websites have tried to fill the promo need, but people still need to find the right Youtube videos or the right Facebooks and Myspaces and websites. TV shows like Idol are giving a few artists a leap forward from the get-go, but that’s no sure thing, either.

The industry took a step in the right direction by raising the price of digital singles (back at my first point — compensation) and stabilizing the artist’s share, but still… Courtney Love was bitching about the fact that artists were dying on the vine because the way the system was set up, they didn’t make any money unless they managed double-platinum album sales and molto touring, and that was 20 years ago! It’s only gotten worse, and they’re less likely to even hit gold, let alone platinum. Yes, they’re trumpeting 360 deals, but that’s just putting the record companies hands in even more pockets than before.

Something’s gotta give…

He’s driving me insane!!! Washington DC, you fool!!!

From your… fingers (?) to Cookie’s ears (eyes?), Sassycatz .

I’m not expecting an outstanding single from Adam. If anything, his non-fans will probably pounce if it doesn’t sell well, but I think the fans will be happy if it just sounds like Adam.

For someone with no filter, he’s being frustratingly tight lipped.

Boy, Cook really loves touring’ ¦

What’s frustrating about this is I’ve been saying for a while I really want to go to the last show of the tour no matter where it is and I want to plan accordingly. Problem is they keep adding shows so its impossible to know when the “last” show will be. Up until yesterday it seemed to be 11/20, but nope now more shows are being added! I do hope we’ll have some notice when the final show will be. I have a feeling December dates will pop up too.

Apparently the artists do an in studio performance with an audience

Soundchecks are done with or without audiences. I’ve seen both. Most have been done without.

I’m not disappointed in either Kris or Allison’s debut singles. Guess I’m easy. Like both more than LO and Crush from last year.

SAME HERE!

And I disagree that Allison’s vocals are horribly over processed. I can hear her distinctive raspiness on the verses’“the chorus has the most autotuning.

MJ, I think it might be slightly misleading to refer to the processing done with Allison’s vocals as “autotuning,” which is after all a program developed to correct pitch. If there’s one thing Allison doesn’t need help with, IMO, it’s intonation. Granted there are a lot of layering and reverb effects employed to enhance the her vocal track, but I don’t think they’re all that different than what was done with Kris on LLWD, and I don’t recall anyone referring to that as “autotuning.”

girlygirl
October 6, 2009 at 11:43 am
I’ll be surprised if Adam’s single DOES live up to the hype, considering the OTT praise coming out of his recording sessions. The expectations are so high, at least among his hardcore AI fanbase, that unless this single is absolutely amazing and shoots right to #1, it’s gonna end up not living up to all the hype.

Eh, don’t really agree. I think Adam’s HARDCORE fan base is realistic. I think you see a few of the hardcores here that are unrealistic, but the majority are pretty matter-of-fact in the thinking that it’s an AI album that’s rushed. At least on this site, I see more grandiose statements regarding Adam’s album coming from fans of others than I do the usual Adam fans. I worry about the outside reaction because of the hype, but I don’t think he’s going to have a problem with his hardcore fan base. I may be wrong, but I don’t think I am.

Tess
October 6, 2009 at 11:11 am

For Adam, Kris, and Allison (Danny too). Individual song and album reviews really need to be analyzed and dissected before taking to heart anything the review says. For instance’ ¦.any reviewer (ie Jim, Michael, Lindsay, ‘Idolator’ , etc) who have had and still have a vested interest in AI aren’t looking at the song/album the same way a typical music critic is for a newbie release. The AI writers have built in biases, either negative or positive (as demonstrated by earlier articles) and have a built in presumption about what they feel the album/song should feel like and sound like. And this will definitely skew their critique.

For me, I’d rather wait and have someone judge the song(s) from a fresh perspective. Kris is being judged (rather unfairly by some) as to whether his stuff reflects the singer/songwriter persona they were hoping for, whereas Allison’s current reviewers are all about her ‘rock’  voice. The new material they issue should be judged solely on its own merit’ ¦whether it is representative of what the idol did on AI is beyond the scope of a ‘good’  review.

So, just like reading a new book by an author we adore’ ¦even though it is almost impossible to do so’ ¦it really needs to be judged as a stand alone project. I guess that is why I take all reviews (movies, books, songs) with the proverbial grain of salt. It is the rare mortal, indeed, who can peel away all the prejudices and measure the value of something on its own merits.

This! Exactly what I was thinking but you said it so eloquently.
One reason I don’t post too often, eventually someone will ask the question or say what I was thinking (and better than I would) so I just wait and lurk.

I am new to idol but it does seem that the fans have some pretty high standards for some idols. ITA waiting to see the reviews from outside the bubble. eta: let me change that to say that fans understandably have high expectations, since the anticipation for their anticipation for the idols music is high.

Enjoyed reading your take on Idol first singles, MJ. And I completely agree (to the extent that I can, since I don’t know all of the singles).

But taking what you said into account, and thinking about it some more: the best selling Idol albums ever are Carrie’s first, Kelly’s second, and Daughtry’s first. I’m least familiar with Carrie’s album, but I’m getting the sense that these albums have all captured the Idol’s “essence” the best…? Well, you know how on the show, they keep yammering on about how staying true to yourself is the key to doing well? With the exception of kids like Archie and Jordin, who arguably didn’t really know who they were as artists yet on Idol, I’m thinking that largely holds true for AI albums. I guess the public wants a tad more authenticity from the Idol albums? Hope 19R gets the memo.

P.S. I looked it up and answered my own question about self-written Idol singles besides Daughtry. Blake’s first single was cowritten by him. I’m hearing Adam’s first single may be cowritten by him too.

MJ, I think it might be slightly misleading to refer to the processing done with Allison’s vocals as ‘autotuning,’  which is after all a program developed to correct pitch.

From what I understand, autotuning does much more than just pitch correction.

He’s driving me insane!!! Washington DC, you fool!!!

Yep. We’re the nation’s capital and we even share your nickname, DC. Have you got something against bureaucrats?

What’s a Walmart Soundcheck? Where does that take place?

It takes place in a studio someplace and is filmed with the (main) purpose of being viewed in stores as an ongoing promotion on the TV screens in the individual stores’ electronics department. That way the TV’s are not tuned to the local TV stations ( which might advertise a non-Wal-Mart related product) and the stores are promoting something on sale in the store.

You can usually find the short concert on YouTube or online some where.

Kris is down to #78 on the iTunes Top 100, FWIW. Because I don’t know if it means anything, if he is starting to get radio spins. Allison hasn’t cracked the Top 100 yet.

What’s a Walmart Soundcheck? Where does that take place?

Here’s a link to Carrie’s promo: soundcheck

Actually what the poster at IDF said was:

anyway, carrie underwood’s soundcheck goes live October 15th, and the big interview with Adam, Kris and Allison will be available starting November 1st. Expect tons of photos.

Almost makes it sound as if they did a joint interview which doesn’t make sense since historically it seems they’ve always done separate interviews for each artist. But maybe since the albums are all back-to-back they combined them.

Boy, Cook really loves touring’ ¦

I remember in interviews closely after the AI7 finale and during the AI summer tour that David Cook mentioned over and over that he couldn’t wait to get out and play his own music. I think he is one of those folks who comes alive on stage, really likes being there.
Also ‘“ on yesterday’s headlines thread there was a link to Cook and band covering Man in the Box, and someone complimented the backup singer in Cookie’s band. Well, I meant to point out that that singer (Andy Skib) used to be the Lead singer in MWK, and Cook was the backup. Andy has a side band, called To Have Heroes. Similarly the lead guitarist, Neal Tieman, is also part of a band called Burn Halo. They all seem to be a little nuts over this music thing.

It takes place in a studio someplace and is filmed with the (main) purpose of being viewed in stores as an ongoing promotion on the TV screens in the individual stores’ electronics department.

Oh, okay – I remember seeing Clay’s Christmas one playing in Walmart. Most times I don’t pay much attention them.

I don’t like Allison’s new single it has been overproduced and it is repetitive. I do hope she finds success though.

I am glad to see that folks are coming around about album sales. The idols from last year were put up against impossible standards and till this day are still measured to those standard even though the industry has changed dramatically in the last few years. Will we give this years crop a break? I hope so. David Cook and David Archuleta are successes by everyone’s standards this year. They have successful albums, songs off their albums and successful tours.

suebrody
October 6, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Kris is down to #78 on the iTunes Top 100, FWIW. Because I don’t know if it means anything, if he is starting to get radio spins. Allison hasn’t cracked the Top 100 yet.

I don’t think Allison’s single has been released to I-tunes yet, has it? I read somewhere yesterday that it wouldn’t be released until October 20th. I thought that was kind of weird considering the fast release of Kris’s to I-tunes.

Kris is down to #78 on the iTunes Top 100, FWIW. Because I don’t know if it means anything, if he is starting to get radio spins. Allison hasn’t cracked the Top 100 yet.

Is ‘Friday’ on itune for download?

If you can’t judge artist’s success on album sales anymore..and radio is basically dying in terms of relevance’ ¦what IS the best way to judge success?

Honestly I think there have historically been a couple of issues when judging the success of Idol contestants. 1. The tendency to compare them to one another, even when they are very different and 2. the tendency to NOT compare them to non-idol acts in their genre and 3. The tendency to go along with whatever logic system casts your idol in the best possible light.

I don’t have any answers, I am not the guru of this stuff. I always try to look at 1. The market they are shooting for, and whether they’ve set themselves up well to continue selling to that audience and 2. Whether its a good bet they made their label/management a healthy profit using all available revenue streams and 3. did they have to get a day job. LOL. Honestly, anyone not doing number 3 has done well for themselves in my book, and 1 and 2 just tell you how well. But that’s just me.

Boy, Cook really loves touring’ ¦

I remember hearing him say very early on that he planned on touring “until the wheels fall off” or “until all my hair falls out”. LOL, he was serious! Well, hopefully not literally. Especially about the hair– I struggle with it, but at the end of the day I still want DC with hair .

David Cook and David Archuleta are successes by everyone’s standards this year. They have successful albums, songs off their albums and successful tours.

Well, sure I agree that they’re successful by certain standards, and it’s great, really… but at the same time, neither has really hit it big in terms of mainstream music consciousness. Like many have said above, there are various measures of success. If we go by whether either guy (and I love them both) has made an impact on the music scene last year? I’d say no. Talk about David Cook or David Archuleta to non-Idol watchers, and you’ll be greeted with a lot of huhs. Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Taylor Swift? No matter what your thoughts about their music, EVERYONE knows their names. If we talk Idols, pretty much everyone outside of the Idol bubble knows who Kelly, Carrie, Daughtry, and Jennifer Hudson are. But it’s downhill from there.

Most industry experts know that the ‘Album’  is a dying concept.

That’s partially true. There will still be a demand for albums in Classical and other genres where sonic fidelity is of paramount importance. I-Tunes downloads are what? About 192k bits per sec? That’s not good enough for extreme dynamic ranges or complex acoustic sounds. Why buy a single on disc when an entire album is only a few dollars more?

For genres with rather limited dynamic ranges that are heavy on electronic instruments, precise fidelity isn’t as important. Online downloads are usually sufficient for something like that.

From what I understand, autotuning does much more than just pitch correction.

Well not being an audio engineer myself, I’m just going by what I read, and its primary purpose as I understand it is to correct pitch. Wikipedia:

Auto-Tune is a proprietary audio processor created by Antares Audio Technologies that uses a phase vocoder to correct pitch in vocal and instrumental performances. It is used to disguise inaccuracies and mistakes, and has allowed many artists to produce more precisely tuned recordings. The term “autotune” is also used to refer to pitch correction technologies developed by other companies.

In addition to being used to subtly change pitch, with some settings it can be used as an effect to deliberately distort the human voice.

There was a brilliant video posted on YouTube about how today’s tone-deaf pop stars are created out of whole cloth using autotune, but unfortunately I can’t find it right now.

I think I got the whole saga about Kris’ single.
If you check on his itunes page, the release date to itunes is October 5th, which is two weeks after the premiere. It was so weird to release a single to itunes only 3 days after it premiered, now I know
I heard that they had to release it earlier for reasons they felt was more favourable. At this point, I think they are pushing for air-play than sales. They didn’t do their underground work and they messed up.
So if Allison’s date is supposedly October 20th, it’s right.
God, some fans on Kris’ facebook page don’t even know he has a single out.

How is the international market selling?

. did they have to get a day job. LOL. Honestly, anyone not doing number 3 has done well for themselves in my book, and 1 and 2 just tell you how well. But that’s just me.

I agree, Tina. I think that success for any of them is to be able to make music for a living, in whatever form it takes. I still remember Adam’s Idolatry interview where he told Slezak that he thought about the business side and said of his goal, “I want to buy a house and I want to do that by singing and dancing and stuff.”. All these guys know how tough the industry is and the traps and pitfalls they face. It’s kind of why Chris Sligh’s blog didn’t bother me, it was realistic. I just wish he had thought about the fact that the music industry has many facets, including Broadway and other theater endeavors.

I wish nothing but success for all of them this year, especially Adam, Kris and Allison. I’d like the others to succeed too, in music if that’s what they want or whatever field they choose. They’ve entertained me this year and nothing but good wishes.

Count me in as someone disappointed in Allison’s single – and she was my second favorite on the show – I’ve tried about 5 times and still can’t listen through the whole song. It seems like they are pushing her to be a Disney pop-princess and not the cool rocker she should be.

I wasn’t as disappointed with Kris as with Allison because I think the song captured his essence slightly better than Allison’s captured hers. LLWD reminds me a bit of what he did with Man In The Mirror and How Sweet It Is (To be Loved By You), his faster paced performances on the show. With Allison, I feel like they auto-tuned out most of the grit in her voice which was a big part of the reason I loved her so much.

I think Adam fans need to be wary, and hope there is at least a little bit of him in his single when it is released based on what has come out for both Kris and Allison at this point.

Honestly I think there have historically been a couple of issues when judging the success of Idol contestants. 1. The tendency to compare them to one another, even when they are very different and 2. the tendency to NOT compare them to non-idol acts in their genre and 3. The tendency to go along with whatever logic system casts your idol in the best possible light.

^^This. I think longevity is obviously one test but that’s an easy way out when they’re first outing didn’t go as one would have hoped. Just like everyone else in their respective genres, they have to be judged from album to album — but not just in terms of album sales but also singles sales, touring and other revenue streams that I’m probably not even aware of, not to mention industry/awards recognition (something that, other than Carrie and Kelly, a lot of Idols haven’t had experience with).

I wasn’t as disappointed with Kris as with Allison because I think the song captured his essence slightly better than Allison’s captured hers. LLWD reminds me a bit of what he did with Man In The Mirror and How Sweet It Is (To be Loved By You), his faster paced performances on the show.

This is exactly what I think. I also liked them both on Idol.

I wish nothing but success for all of them this year, especially Adam, Kris and Allison. I’d like the others to succeed too, in music if that’s what they want or whatever field they choose. They’ve entertained me this year and nothing but good wishes.

Very well said and I totally agree with the sentiment of the post!

“NO ONE should think that any of the Idols will ever again sell units like Kelly and Carrie and Daughtry and Clay did. AIN’T ever going to happen again.”

What?! Heresy! Haven’t you been paying attention to the blogs? Adam will sell 40 million albums in the first 5 seconds of release!!!

Seriously though, I do agree with you Tess. I think selling 1 million is still an achievable goal but selling anything above 2 million is looking less and less possible for anyone but huge established artists.

“has there ever been a first release that really captured the contestant’s essence or whatever? ”

I’ll throw in another vote for Daughtry with ‘It’s Not Over’. Not only was the sound 100% authentic to Chris Daughtry, the same sort of sound we had seen on the show from the man, but also it was an excellent description of his circumstances at the time of it’s release, with the anthemic underlying message that ‘Hey, I didn’t win, I finished 4th, but it’s not over yet’.

There are those who tour to live and those who live to tour. I think Cook is of the latter category. It’s a great thing, too, because in my experience, those who live to tour give great shows day in and day out.

More headlines

ABC will have one hour Christmas special with Jennifer Hudson

Gone are the days when you were able to browse through huge record stores, ask the people who worked there about some obscure titles, and they would take you right to them. I also loved how you could put on those headphones and listen to any music as you wanted. However, most of the people I know download singles, instead of buying an album of 12 songs and only liking two. I also think with advent of iPods and MP3 players, album sales started declining.

Allison tweet:

Allison4Realzzz Tooppp oofff ze moorrnin’ to ya all .. On my way to a recording session.. Saayy whaAaAaa?!!??? Wacha guys up to??? Xp4 minutes ago from Echofon

I agree re: Chris. Funny, I hadn’t even thought of him. I am listening to Daughtry’s single Feels Like Tonight (b/c he and Pink and Nickleback apparently own stock in mix104.1 in Boston). I think it absolutely sounds like him, as does every track on the album, IMO. I don’t like his second one as much, b/c I thought there might be more experimentation, but I guess when you’ve sold 5 million plus copies of a debut album, why tinker w/ success? Also, that’s what Chris sounds like, so…that’s what you get.

Q3: Some people are now using album equivalants (agregating digital track sales) to rank artists.

Makes a LOT of sense to me. Are there sites who do that, since Billboard isn’t compiling this very useful info?

No public info that I know of. But I only really follow the retail side of the business (brick & mortar and online/digital distro), not the airplay world. And there might be something out there available to the public.

I rely on source data from Nielsen SoundScan and RIAA data which gives a very good picture of what is selling. And use some online measurement tools to try to estimate what is being distributed free (almost impossible but a really significant number now).

The other huge problem with the Billboard Charts is that some genres have transitioned to digital more rapidly than others — alternative rock, for example, is a largely digital business — and my guess is that alt rock fans lead in illegal downloads, too. OTOH standards and Country are still solid in the album world. So my guess is that SuBo will sell a larger percentation of “real” albums then an artist like Lady Gaga who has younger, more tech-oriented fans. And that piracy will be less of a problem for SuBo than it is for Lady Gaga.

The Idols are in a unique position because they have built fan communities that want to support them and buy their music. It is hard to build this kind of fan community today — Dave Mathews Band, Green Day, and others have done it, but it’s rare. And a few Idols, like David Cook, have contuned to work to expand their fan communities — but it is hard work. Just look at the number of tour dates that David has done in the past year.

has there ever been a first release that really captured the contestant’s essence or whatever?

I would have to add Kimberley Locke and “8th World Wonder” (Which I think is one of the better 1st single pop songs to come out of any idol) Even though her Album sales (One Love) have never been outstanding. She has had 3 number 1 songs on the A/C charts and 3 number 1 songs on the US Dance charts. “8th World Wonder” I think showed she was going to be an AC and Dance artist and what kind of sound she would produce. I am biased as she is my favorite from Season 2. (Yeah more then at Clay and Ruben)

Aww

@thedavidcook let’s recap: BAD NEWS: still sick, although less so. GOOD NEWS: Conpletely caught up on House, ASIP, and Dexter… Life is goooooooooood!

Kind of amusing that even when he’s sick he’s more fun and uplifting than Sarver is on Twitter pretty much everyday LOL
He tweeted again that ASIP is Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

I love Chris Daughtry’s songs, all of them. It sounds so good on radio and easy on the ears. If Kris is going to have a couple of stuff like that on his album, it will be my Christmas present.

Most industry experts know that the ‘Album’  is a dying concept.

No. The “Compact Disc” is a dying distribution medium. I believe there is a difference. Artistically, I think there’s still a place for the album as a mode of musical expression. While the industry has been slow to adjust its economy to deal with different distribution paradigms, the shift is happening. The “Album” isn’t going anywhere soon. It’s just going to be monetized and consumed differently than in the past.

I just want these new idols to get songs on the radio. I haven’t heard Kris’s yet on the Top 40 station in Tampa

On a DC message board I visit, someone mentioned that Cook’s “Light On” was played at the end of the jersey retirement ceremony for some Colorado Avalanche hockey player that was held in a packed arena. (There’s a very lengthy video on the team’s site.)

Cook seems to get a lot of play with the sports people … which means more male fans hopefully.

Kris is down to #78 on the iTunes Top 100, FWIW. Because I don’t know if it means anything, if he is starting to get radio spins.

I guess one thing it means is that, if you start getting significant spins, you can go back up! Hope it works out that way for Kris.

No. The ‘Compact Disc’  is a dying distribution medium. I believe there is a difference. Artistically, I think there’s still a place for the album as a mode of musical expression. While the industry has been slow to adjust its economy to deal with different distribution paradigms, the shift is happening. The ‘Album’  isn’t going anywhere soon. It’s just going to be monetized and consumed differently than in the past.

I sorta agree with that, in the sense that I think the problem isn’t so much that albums are dying (labels are certainly selling less of them, but albums will always be around to some degree) as much as there have been huge conglomerates built around a business model that assumed larger amounts of albums would be moved annually. I think the reality is that record companies need to become smaller and leaner, and spend their money more wisely. I don’t think they can run these companies that employ thousands of people any more. The labels (and artists) need to be able to turn a profit domestically from a plantinum single or two and a gold album, plus touring and licensing revenue. That’s what a reasonably successful artist looks like now. A big star goes multiple platinum on their singles and platinum plus on their album. Only a megastar on album number 2+ does better. The faster they adjust to the new reality the better.

I would have to add Kimberley Locke and ’8th World Wonder’ 

Well, Kimberley wasn’t signed by 19R. Idols who signed outside the Idol machine have had an easier time staying true to themselves.

As far as Kris is concerened, I would have prefered that he co-write his first single. But, as it is, while I don’t think “Live Like We’re Dying” suits him perfectly, I think it suits him pretty well. I like his single.

Yes, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that two of the most successful Idols had debut albums that captured, at least somewhat, who they were as artists. It’s also essential that the Idol, like Carrie and Chris, know who they are before they step foot in the studio.

Makes a LOT of sense to me. Are there sites who do that, since Billboard isn’t compiling this very useful info?

Last year, I saw an article from Billboard.biz that quoted all those stats. It was quite interesting in how it broke down all of the genres and how some are fairing better than others in the market downturn (Rap seems to be suffering the most. Rock is holding it’s ground the best).

Here were some stats from that article last year (sorry, no link to the source because you need an account):

Digital Gains Partly Ease Physical Pain
ED CHRISTMAN

Combined U.S. sales of albums and track-equivalent albums (or TEA, where 10 digital tracks equal an album) totaled 377.4 million units during the nine months ending Sept. 28, down 5.3% from 398.6 million units during the same period last year, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

Digital music sales continued to play a crucial role in staunching ongoing heavy losses in physical sales. Combined sales of digital albums and TEA totaled 126.8 million units, accounting for 33.6% of combined album and TEA sales, up from 24.3% from the same period last year.

Time magazine had a great article on the use of Auto-Tune in Pop music. Her is a section that struck a chord with me: (sorry for the bad pun!)

Auto-Tune: Why Pop Music Sounds Perfect

It’s hits that matter, and the average person listening to just one pop song on the radio will have a hard time hearing Auto-Tune’s impact; it’s effectively deceptive. But when track after track has perfect pitch, the songs are harder to differentiate from one another–which explains why pop is in a pretty serious lull at the moment. It also changes the way we hear unaffected voices. “The other day, someone was talking about how Aretha Franklin at the Inauguration was a bit pitchy,” says Anderson. “I said, ‘Of course! She was singing!’ And that was a musician talking. People are getting used to hearing things dead on pitch, and it’s changed their expectations.”

My problem with Allison’s single isn’t the use of Auto-Tuning, but in how they used it to remove any character or distinctiveness from her voice. Maybe we’ll get a couple of tracks on the album that still sound like Allison — otherwise I’ll wait for the “Live” album and pray that she doesn’t sing with an Auto-Tune mike.

Auto-Tune software does a lot more than just change pitch — it can be used to create a lot of alterations to sounds, vocals and instrumentation. I expect Adam and his collaborators to make a lot of use of Auto-Tuning — not to correct Adam’s pitch but to modify his vocals. Not primative vocal distortion like Cher’s “Believe” — but I expect that his album will use a lot of current production techniques including Auto-Tuning — at least on some tracks.

ABC will have one hour Christmas special with Jennifer Hudson

Wow, that’s a good gig! Adam Shankman is also apparently producing a Christmas Special for Carrie Underwood on FOX.

I would have to add Kimberley Locke and ’8th World Wonder’  (Which I think is one of the better 1st single pop songs to come out of any idol) Even though her Album sales (One Love) have never been outstanding. She has had 3 number 1 songs on the A/C charts and 3 number 1 songs on the US Dance charts. ’8th World Wonder’  I think showed she was going to be an AC and Dance artist and what kind of sound she would produce. I am biased as she is my favorite from Season 2. (Yeah more then at Clay and Ruben)

Yeah, I’d add that one, too, as well as Elliott’s Wait for You as well as the singles from some of the other people not signed or managed by any of the Idol-related apparatus, like Josh Gracin and Bucky and Mandisa. …

But really I think it’s an unfair comparison to talk about them in the same breath with the singles that *do* come from the Idols managed/signed by the Idol-related labels and management. The processes by which those albums are produced and the probable objectives of their managers and labels probably aren’t the same as the 19/Sony-related ones, which are a big machine set up to make fast money off of people who’ve been churned out on purpose to be popular-with-US-tv-audiences very-middle-of-the-road entertainers.

I expect Adam and his collaborators to make a lot of use of Auto-Tuning ‘” not to correct Adam’s pitch but to modify his vocals. Not primative vocal distortion like Cher’s ‘Believe’  ‘” but I expect that his album will use a lot of current production techniques including Auto-Tuning ‘” at least on some tracks.

I actually think the use of auto-tune will contribute to the character Adam says he wants his album to have. He has stated numerous times that he wants to go in a pop-dance direction with his music (or something like it) and I think auto-tune can be used creatively to send his music in that direction. Of the 3 of them (Kris, Adam and Allison) I actually think Adam’s music will be best suited for auto-tune use as opposed to how it was used with Allison to take the grit out of her voice.

Posted this in the Lady Gaga thread b4 I realized it was dead:

New Article:
http://music-mix.ew.com/2009/10/06/album-s‘ ¦ichael-jackson/

The last sentence is priceless!

Also, from another forum from someone whose major encompasses such things:

‘In case anyone’s curious, those ‘adornments’ on Adam’s jacket aren’t Nazi swastikas anyway. They’re facing in the other direction, which means they’re the Hindu symbol for peace.’ 

And, yes, I believe that Adam addresses issues indirectly & his tweet about ‘loving Germans’, did just that, cause this non-issue is being sent all around twitter now for at least 3 days’ ¦.

It seems like they are pushing her to be a Disney pop-princess and not the cool rocker she should be.

I’m absolutely not dissing the poster here because her concern is valid, but this is the sentiment that is going to make it really hard to judge Allison and the other Idols (and always has been) on their single and album releases. Because so many of us, as Idol fans, fell in love with the perceived Janis Joplin light image of Allison and now we will have the tendency to judge her releases on that standard.

For me it would be nice to say, as a brand new newbie without an identifiable sound, does Friday I’ll be over U sound like a good song coming from a 17 year old with a very good voice? Does it fit into the genre that most 17 year old newbies are aiming out? Is the song memorable and will most Top 40 listeners keep the radio channel on while it is playing? Will the demographic that the song is focused towards, buy it? How does Ali compare to other 17 year old pop singers? These are the pertinent questions, IMHO.

There is time, down the road, for Ali to grow into the type of singer her AI fans would like her to be (if that is her choice). For now, as hard as it may be, we have to hope she is choosing the right path.

News from Twitter:

TVGuideMagazine Adam Lambert talks about the “dynamic music” on his new CD in this week’s #tvguidemagazine 19 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Some additional music stats from the Tribune:

In 2008:
115,000 albums were released:
110 of those sold more than 250K (including two Idols)
1,500 of those sold more than 10K
6,000 of those sold more than 1K

Here is a more comprehensive list of 2008 stats to give you an idea: http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20081231005304&newsLang=en

I was just listening to LLWD, why did I suddenly start singing Hey Macarena? Now I can’t get it out of my head.

Jive has produced some radio friendly stuff for Allison and Kris so that’s job #1. I think Allison’s song will do better in her genre than Kris’ song even though I like his better. Hope that makes sense.

Kris’ song is far from “organic” and Allison isn’t all that “rock” to me though. And the ones who strike lightning manage to connect the first album with what they did on the show. I’m pretty sure Taylor Swift’s current album has sold 4 million so you can still go multi-platinum but it’s very rare.

Maybe this has been posted but I missed it.

Just noticed Kris’s Man in the Mirror photo that BN posted with his album listing. Album Cover?

Does anyone know what photo shoot this is from? I like it. Very handsome.

Also, from another forum from someone whose major encompasses such things:

‘In case anyone’s curious, those ‘adornments’ on Adam’s jacket aren’t Nazi swastikas anyway. They’re facing in the other direction, which means they’re the Hindu symbol for peace.’ 

And, yes, I believe that Adam addresses issues indirectly & his tweet about ‘loving Germans’, did just that, cause this non-issue is being sent all around twitter now for at least 3 days’ ¦.

Three days? What are they trying to do to Adam? I guess I hadn’t seen that. Who started this scandal?

Poor guy, all he wants to do is sing.

I think Allison’s song will do better in her genre than Kris’ song even though I like his better. Hope that makes sense.

yes, I totally agree with this.

“On a DC message board I visit, someone mentioned that Cook’s ‘Light On’  was played at the end of the jersey retirement ceremony for some Colorado Avalanche hockey player that was held in a packed arena. (There’s a very lengthy video on the team’s site.)”

It was for Joe Sakic.

MJ-Well, Kimberley wasn’t signed by 19R. Idols who signed outside the Idol machine have had an easier time staying true to themselves.

lucy-Yeah, I’d add that one, too, as well as Elliott’s Wait for You as well as the singles from some of the other people not signed or managed by any of the Idol-related apparatus, like Josh Gracin and Bucky and Mandisa. ‘ ¦

But really I think it’s an unfair comparison to talk about them in the same breath with the singles that *do* come from the Idols managed/signed by the Idol-related labels and management. The processes by which those albums are produced and the probable objectives of their managers and labels probably aren’t the same as the 19/Sony-related ones, which are a big machine set up to make fast money off of people who’ve been churned out on purpose to be popular-with-US-tv-audiences very-middle-of-the-road entertainers.

OOPs…I wasn’t aware that we were just talking about Idols signed by 19 entertainment. Based on that premise I agree with both of you 100%. It is much easier for Idols signed by independent labels to be truer to themselves. With that said still LOVE “8th World Wonder”

Since the topic of the day seems to be declining album sales and how to measure success in the current industry climate, this might be an interesting tidbt to discuss. Data from the The Future of Music Coalition Policy Summit:

U.S. album sales in 2008: More than 115,000 albums were released, but only 110 sold more than 250,000 copies, a mere 1,500 topped 10,000 sales, and fewer than 6,000 cracked the 1,000 barrier — further evidence that sales of recorded music are not the way of the future for artists. Instead, it increasingly appears that recordings will be more like adverstisements for opportunities that actually do make money: live performances, merchandise, licensing to movies, commercials and video games, ring tones, etc.

ETA: I eat Kirsten’s dust.

News from Twitter:

TVGuideMagazine Adam Lambert talks about the ‘dynamic music’  on his new CD in this week’s #tvguidemagazine 19 minutes ago from TweetDeck

It would be great to have heard at least one single from that album…

God, if this album sucks, there will be riots. I realize sucks is subjective.

I’ll be surprised if Adam’s single DOES live up to the hype, considering the OTT praise coming out of his recording sessions. The expectations are so high, at least among his hardcore AI fanbase, that unless this single is absolutely amazing and shoots right up to #1, it’s gonna end up not living up to all the hype.

Not to mention that 19E continues to suck the lifeblood out of it’s contestants, vis-a-vis the recent discussion about what singles actually represent the artists. And yes, I think that Allison and Kris’s singles continue the tradition of not being what someone on the show was like and not being the best representation of them. I know some like Kris’s LLWD, but I don’t think he even re-arranged the song, much less really shows it’s his voice or instrument playing. And Allison has been too smoothed out and while not totally auto tuned to death (and yes, auto tune can be used for effects of the voice, and not just smoothing out pitch problems) I can barely recognize it’s her and not Kelly Clarkson.

So I don’t think most Adam fans are doing anything other than hoping for the best artistically, and in terms of sales, because no, most Adam fans don’t expect him to sell millions of albums. I think most Adam fans realize they would be lucky to have numbers like last year’s top 2 finisher and really lucky to have numbers like David Cook’s given also the discussion of the changing for the worse, music market these days.

I prefer to think of it not as lowered expectations, but realistic expectations to say Adam’s single will probably mostly suck, same with his album and who the hell knows in terms of his sales.

God, if this album sucks, there will be riots. I realize sucks is subjective

I think that Adam fans should ready themselves, I am losing hope after hearing Kris and Allison.

further evidence that sales of recorded music are not the way of the future for artists. Instead, it increasingly appears that recordings will be more like adverstisements for opportunities that actually do make money: live performances, merchandise, licensing to movies, commercials and video games, ring tones, etc.

Guess the idea that popular music has *anything* in common with, like, art, individual expression, etc., is totally gone then! If you’re in a popular music genre, what you’re really doing is making ads of some sort! …

Hey, how about the Nick Cave’s new album? Dunno — … but I love his ring tone.

Argh.

BestAI:

Yes, even just got a GoogleAlert on it– it appears to gaining some steam cause of the re-tweeting of the story….

Also, from another forum from someone whose major encompasses such things:

‘In case anyone’s curious, those ‘adornments’ on Adam’s jacket aren’t Nazi swastikas anyway. They’re facing in the other direction, which means they’re the Hindu symbol for peace.’ 

The university that gave her that major might want to take her degree back. It’s not exactly difficult to get a picture of a Nazi Swastika and see that the the symbol on Adam’s jacket is turning in exactly the same direction (with the arms bent the same way) as the Nazi symbol.

For heaven’s sake. I don’t think in a million years Adam is a Nazi, but that’s definitely the Nazi (and Hindu and Native American) version. I think trying to claim it’s not is only making it worse.

spring2009
October 6, 2009 at 1:25 pm

God, if this album sucks, there will be riots. I realize sucks is subjective

I think that Adam fans should ready themselves, I am losing hope after hearing Kris and Allison.

There is hope…”Time for Miracles” could very well be what Brian May says it is and it is not subjected to 19/RCA overlords. This is what keeps me hopeful. Though his album may not be what I wish it will be I think I will be very happy with the 2012 song.

Maybe this has been posted but I missed it.

Just noticed Kris’s Man in the Mirror photo that BN posted with his album listing. Album Cover?

Does anyone know what photo shoot this is from? I like it. Very handsome.

It just popped up on Kris’ facebook last Friday. Nothing for certain except based on that one photo, I’m waiting with bated breath for the rest of the shoot to be released.

It was for Joe Sakic.

Ahem, that’s “Burnaby” Joe.

Good article by Brian Mansfield on Blake Lewis and his new album, Hearbreak on Vinyl:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/idolchatter/post/2009/10/blake-lewis-the-interview/1

Blake was not happy with Clive Davis and the direction he felt he had take with ADD.

I think that Adam fans should ready themselves, I am losing hope after hearing Kris and Allison.

I don’t know about others, but I’ve been prepared all along.

What I expect is: Great voice singing crappy-to-fair-to-middling song with crappy-to-fair-to-middling (over) production. …

The great voice can probably overcome a bit of that, anyway. And since “crappy song” and “radio hit” these days can actually be synonymous, it doesn’t mean that the crappy song won’t do well enough to sell a bunch of albums for him. Of course, if the *whole* album has such crappy songs that it actually becomes a laughing stock, that’ll be another matter, I guess. Could happen. Hope it doesn’t. (for Adam, Allison, *or* Kris….)

So I don’t think most Adam fans are doing anything other than hoping for the best artistically, and in terms of sales, because no, most Adam fans don’t expect him to sell millions of albums. I think most Adam fans realize they would be lucky to have numbers like last year’s top 2 finisher and really lucky to have numbers like David Cook’s given also the discussion of the changing for the worse, music market these days.

This is exactly how I feel. I want Adam to sell enough to get a chance to do a second album, that’s all.

This is exactly how I feel. I want Adam to sell enough to get a chance to do a second album, that’s all.

And this is the hope I have for Kris – because a second album won’t be a rush job – for any of them.

The longer the wait, the higher the hype. It’s impossible for Adam’s single to live up to such hype. His single may such, and his album may such as well.

Hype is very rarely the operative word on an MJ thread. I think the posters here are very in-tune with realism tempered with optimism with a big splash of history. But this is what makes things so very very interesting and so very much fun.

Having knowledgeable people helping us keep things in perspective makes it easier to accept the little blips. That being said, I don’t think having high expectations is a bad thing…the more we convince ourselves that we are going to hear something good the more apt we are to judge the new stuff with a higher rating. And that’s not bad since very little material is really as good as it is professed to be.

If you like an Artist, human nature directs you to judge their work a lot less harshly than if you don’t like them. So we oftentimes hear what we want to hear…and that is a really good thing.

I agree with everyone who thinks that TFM may actually help Adam, ’cause it may not be the drek that most Idol singles/albums are.

It may showcase his voice and get lots of attention & smooth over what I hope is not, but probably will be, drek, that his single/album may be.

TFM may actually help him get a shot at a second album.

I don’t think Adam’s single will disapoint that many people here because everybody has discussed at nauseum how his single (not TFM) is going the pop dance electronica route and in this genre auto tune and other manipulations are standard procedure.
If I had to base what his single would sound like just on his show and tour performances, I would have expected hard rock and ballads from him.

I don’t see the difference with Allison in that regard, her fans that followed her interviews during the tour knew she was going more pop in her first album and the fact she was working with Max Martin or Kara just showed that she was going more towards young Kelly and Pink than Janis or Pat Benatar.

ETA: this applies to Kris as well, if you read his interviews, he talked during the tour about pop-rock with an (urban) edge, not singer-songwritter type of songs.

Awwww poor Maks, he does look so sad on the show, trying to put on a brave face. It has GOT to be tough being in that situation week after week and then to be given ole sour puss who acts like he is a disease is even worse. Last night was soooo weird, her turning to cling to Tom while Maks was left standing there looking so uncomfortable, he is usually a hugger and supportive but Debi was having none of him? I’ll take him?

Anyone see this cool shout out Blake gave Adam during his Idol Chatter interview:

“Has Adam Lambert’s success this past season had any effect on your life whatsoever?

Yes and no. It’s the American Idol family, so he got compared to me, as being rebellious and flamboyant. I got that. I guess I’m known as the rebellious American Idol. And he kind of did his own thing.

He’s a great dude. I helped him with a couple of beats for his record and tried to hook him up with certain people for his album. I saw him at one of their shows, at an American Idols Live concert in New Jersey. He just tore the roof off. He and Matt Giraud were my favorites from this season, and Allison, as well.

This was the first season that I actually watched, ever. It was cool, because there were two or three people I really enjoyed.”

I don’t think it’s going to matter if Adam’s single and/or album “suck”. The media has invested so much time into the “next big thing” meme that I just can’t see them turning around and saying “oops…we were wrong…nevermind”. It will be fine, it will sell well, and he’ll get a 2nd album.

ladymadonna: No. The ‘Compact Disc’  is a dying distribution medium. I believe there is a difference. Artistically, I think there’s still a place for the album as a mode of musical expression. While the industry has been slow to adjust its economy to deal with different distribution paradigms, the shift is happening. The ‘Album’  isn’t going anywhere soon. It’s just going to be monetized and consumed differently than in the past.

The album was invented for Classical music and the length was based on the length of Classical compositions. So it will survive for Classical music.

The modern album forn is based on the 1948 Columbia Records 12-inch, 33â…“-RPM microgroove record made of vinyl, 23 minutes per side. If an artist wants to use this model in the digital future — that is great. But I expect that the increasing importance and near-term dominence of digital music will change how music is packaged. BECAUSE 1. consumers are changing the way they use music — creating and sharing playlists, AND 2. new personalized ways of learning about music are becoming important — for example, automated programming of online radio, like Pandora, is creating new ways for consumers to find new artists and performance based on their individual preferences.

The world where the consumer choice was limited to buying the single or the entire album is over. Consumers can buy the tracks that they want — even if they are never “released as a single” or were never on an album and just released online. The industry will continue to issue albums, artist will theme tours after albums, but consumers will buy what they want — and that may be just 3 or 4 tracks. And if we are all very lucky, this will encourage artists to stop releasings poor-quality, album-filler tracks.

Just to give this seismic shift some dimension:

Total revenues for CDs, vinyl, cassettes and digital downloads in the U.S. dropped from a high of $14.6 billion in 1999 to $10.4 billion in 2008. The downward trend is expected to continue for the foreseeable future’”Forrester Research predicts that by 2013, revenues will reach as low as $9.2 billion. Some analyst forecast an even lower revenue number.

In the meantime, digital music revenue area expected to grow rapidly.

“The Digital Music Market Outlook: Evolving Business Models, Key Players, New Challenges and the Future Outlook”

The global digital music market will grow from $4.81bn in 2009 to $13.74bn by 2013, representing a CAGR of 30%.

I don’t see the difference with Allison in that regard, her fans that followed her interviews during the tour knew she was going more pop in her first album and the fact she was working with Max Martin or Kara just showed that she was going more towards young Kelly and Pink than Janis or Pat Benatar.

ETA: this applies to Kris as well, if you read his interviews, he talked during the tour about pop-rock with an (urban) edge, not singer-songwritter type of songs.

While I expected Allison to go in a more pop direction, I still wanted her to sound like Allison. IMO, she sounds so much like Kelly in the part of the song I did listen to that if I didn’t know better, I would never identify her by her voice. On the show, no matter what she was singing she always had a distinct quality to her voice and that just seems to have been taken away in this song. I don’t think I would have labeled the single as Disney pop-princess if it had retained more of her gravelly edge.

The longer the wait, the higher the hype. It’s impossible for Adam’s single to live up to such hype. His single may such, and his album may such as well.

I just don’t get all the angst about this. In every interview where it was discussed, Adam stated that his single would be out mid-October and his album would be out at the end of November. I’ve heard nothing from Adam or RCA that would refute that. RCA isn’t Jive. They seem to have a different philosophy evidenced by the early release of David Archuleta’s single last year vs. David Cook’s.

Hype? Yes, people collaborating with Adam have tweeted about how positive the sessions are. Yes, some album reviewers are choosing to place his album on the most anticipated lists based on his Idol performances. The rest of it?? We’re doing it to ourselves. I mean, the Time for Miracles being on the 2012 roadblock got everybody all excited, hot and bothered, yet it came from an American Idol forum from someone who has no official connection to 19, except shadowy talk of an “uncle”. Neither Adam, RCA or Sony EVER hinted that it would be there, we drove ourselves crazy. All the other rumors about single release date have been primarily wishful thinking and initiated from some shadowy person who “knows things”. I’m sure when the single is going to be released, we’ll get tweets and official confirmation from Adam or RCA. Until then, all the information is suspect in my eyes.

We need to calm down or nerves are going to be shot before the single is even out. It will be out according to the plan that RCA had set up from the beginning. I see no evidence that RCA is trying to bus Adam in any way. From producers to collaborators to photo shoots, Adam seems to have gotten the best available to fit what his future sound is purported to be.

I don’t know about you, but I’m trying to save my nerves for the freakout that might happen when the single actually comes out, I’m sure I’ll need them then much more at that time than I do now.

spring2009
October 6, 2009 at 1:25 pm
God, if this album sucks, there will be riots. I realize sucks is subjective

I think that Adam fans should ready themselves, I am losing hope after hearing Kris and Allison.

Those songs are excellent reminders of my point all along, and yes, take your hopes and crush them underneath your boot heel. If they somehow creep up despite your best efforts, just go read again the list of first singles and albums from past AIers and give another grind with your boot heel

What can I say? I’m not the most optimistic of people. Oh and on that note I expect the 2012 song to be a cheese fest, I mean with a title like “Time For Miracles,” and given the film it’s for? yeah, I expect cheesetastic things from it. No more, no less (sorry Brian May).

That being said with my expectations at the nadir I think is reasonsable for them given AI, anything above that I can be reasonably okay with and put it in context. But that’s just how I roll. I understand others might not have my joie de nihil (sorry, I know the Latin, not French word).

anovich
October 6, 2009 at 1:36 pm
This is exactly how I feel. I want Adam to sell enough to get a chance to do a second album, that’s all.

And this is the hope I have for Kris ‘“ because a second album won’t be a rush job ‘“ for any of them.

I know we’re not on the same fan train, but I want that for all of the signed Idols. Adam, Kris, Danny and Allison. I’m also wishing for record deals for the others, especially Matt and Anoop (for Alison’s sake)

I’ll be surprised if Adam’s single DOES live up to the hype, considering the OTT praise coming out of his recording sessions. The expectations are so high, at least among his hardcore AI fanbase, that unless this single is absolutely amazing and shoots right up to #1, it’s gonna end up not living up to all the hype.

I haven’t seen these expectations from Adam’s fans on any fansite. I’ve mostly seen these expectations used as sarcasm by non fans.

I’m expecting a few good songs on his first album and hoping we’ll be able to hear that amazing voice on some of the songs. I’m also ready for the fact that RCA is going to release a song as the 1st single that is “catchy and radio-friendly”.

I don’t see the problem with “hype”. The only people who have seen all these tweets from writers are inside the bubble. I appreciate the kind words just like Kris’s fans appreciated the kind words from Mat Kearney.

Right now, Adam seems to be mentioned everywhere. The press he is getting is keeping his name out there. (outside the bubble)

For heaven’s sake. I don’t think in a million years Adam is a Nazi, but that’s definitely the Nazi (and Hindu and Native American) version. I think trying to claim it’s not is only making it worse.

I agree with this. It is entirely possible to say “I like Adam and don’t think he’s a Nazi sympathizer” but also say “Dude, that was kind of dumb.” People see that symbol they think Nazis. They don’t go “gee, is it actually the Hindu symbol??”

Wearing a jacket with that symbol, regardless of intent, wasn’t edgy or hip or daring. It was dumb.

Interesting:

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-13143-West-Palm-Beach-Television-Examiner~y2009m10d6-Adam-Lambert-cover-wishlist-Muse-Queen-The-Beatles-Michael-Jackson-Journey-Poll

from mallaryhope

Sorry! Just met @dannygokey in the studio. He held Java! Super nice guy! I think you need a pup too
9 minutes ago from mobile web

Just met the oh so sweet @daneygokey in the studio. He got to meet Java too
12 minutes ago from mobile web

Balance: I don’t think it’s going to matter if Adam’s single and/or album ‘suck’ . The media has invested so much time into the ‘next big thing’  meme that I just can’t see them turning around and saying ‘oops’ ¦we were wrong’ ¦nevermind’ . It will be fine, it will sell well, and he’ll get a 2nd album.

I think that the album will not “suck” but if the single or album does “suck” it will be a BIG story.

For the most part, the “media” is no one’s friend and they are only invested in sellling newspapers and magazines, getting online hits, getting ratings and selling ads. So if it “sucks’, I expect it to be an even bigger story than if it is good.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-13143-West-Palm-Beach-Television-Examiner~y2009m10d6-Adam-Lambert-cover-wishlist-Muse-Queen-The-Beatles-Michael-Jackson-Journey-Poll

Interesting, but the Examiner is not really a news source. It’s a blog that allows regular people to post “stories” on it. You become a “West Palm Beach Television Examiner” by posting in that section and being from West Palm Beach. I’ve kind of quite reading some of those because I’ve seen alot of the “articles” on it lately, that are just put there to ignite fan wars between Adam and Kris fans and frankly, it’s become tiring.

I don’t think there has ever been an Idol debut single that did not get a mixed critical and fan reaction, whether it went on to sell a ton or not. People will love/hate not matter what you do. They will also say its generic and overproduced. LOL. And when the album comes out, it will get mixed reviews as well. I think Blake’s album got pretty good reviews all around, but that’s the only one I can think of. And I’m not even sure about that.

I’m not expecting Adam to buck any of those trends. But that doesn’t mean his first song won’t be a hit. In fact, given who he’s working with, I would say the odds are at least one of those songs will be hit single material.

I think that Adam fans should ready themselves, I am losing hope after hearing [other season 8 idols].

What do the three singles released from other Season 8 contestants have to do with Adam Lambert?

I’m wondering if with Kris and Allison’s singles, they decided that those were going to be the singles shortly after they recorded them. Whereas, they seem to be trying to select Adam’s single amongst several. I’m also wondering if they can’t make up their minds what “sound” they want coming from Adam’s debut single. Otherwise, why take so long?

I disagree that album, cd or whatever sales are at death’s door. I don’t know what format will prove to be the future of the music business, cd’s, EP’s, some new fangled thing I don’t even know about yet. But it will be there. And, some artist or some band is going to make a really great one. And people are going to buy it in droves, just like they always do.

History repeats itself here in America over and over again. In each decade we’ve had an economic downturn or recession, the death knell has been rung for the music business and the idea of the concept album. Yet each and every time, some new artist has come along and created something that invades the culture so fully that the business and the idea of the packaged album again recover.

Even in a bad economy, when something really reaches out and grabs the people’s attention, they’ll spend their money on the little things that bring joy in life. They’re still going to see those Twilight movies in herds and buying vampire books by the bucketfull. They’ve captured the interest of pop culture. The problem with the music business is that right now, no one is doing that.

But someone will. Odds are it won’t be an AI alumni, but it will happen.

I don’t agree that we should judge the idols on some new curve. Lately, I think the most recent acts haven’t gone multi-platinum simply because the music isn’t that special.

I don’t believe the show can propel someone to multi-platinum status. In fact, I don’t think it ever really could. Most AI fans are just tv watchers.

I think the reason Kelly’s Breakaway sold as much as it did had less to do with AI and more to do with the fact that it was filled with some really fabulous pop music.

I know I’m in the minority, but that’s just the way I feel. I should add the fact that I see so many proclamations of bulk buying and so many buying campaigns that for all but the top 3 sellers, in my mind post AI cd sales numbers all have an asterick behind them.

I think only about half of their sales numbers are represented by actual, individual purchasers. (I don’t however have the same theory about the singles – I think some of those like Tattoo and Crush have actually reached far beyond the Idol bubble). So, I don’t typically think of an AI-er as a recording success until they hit double platinum. But, many of them would qualify as a success under different criteria to me.

does Friday I’ll be over U sound like a good song coming from a 17 year old with a very good voice?

I love the Joplin vibe that Allison can have, but don’t know that it’s right sound for the younger audience that Allison is targeting. Don’t know that it’s really right yet for a 17 year old to sing songs that would make the best use of her voice. (I think you need a few more years of living under your belt for those type of songs. Just my take on it.)

That said, though, I love Allison’s single. I think it’s a good single for her target audience, she’ll have fun performing it, and I’m having fun listening to it, even though I’m not anywhere near the age of the target audience. “Oh yeah!”

I’m also wondering if they can’t make up their minds what ‘sound’  they want coming from Adam’s debut single. Otherwise, why take so long?

But it isn’t taking long, as least not as far as RCA is concerned. As has been discussed, it seems to be more of differing ways of marketing/release. Jive does singles earlier, RCA does them later. And Adam said that his first single would come out mid-October and he’s on track for that.

I’m also wondering if they can’t make up their minds what ‘sound’  they want coming from Adam’s debut single. Otherwise, why take so long?

I think they are putting a one week distance between all the debuts. My guess is we are going to hear something about a snippet on Friday.

I know about Kaulitz (I can’t believe Tokio Hotel guys are so young), but is Blake gay? I’m referring to Perez’s tweet.

I don’t see the difference with Allison in that regard, her fans that followed her interviews during the tour knew she was going more pop in her first album and the fact she was working with Max Martin or Kara just showed that she was going more towards young Kelly and Pink than Janis or Pat Benatar.

To quote Kara, here’s the thing… at least in this song there is NO rock. It’s not pop-rock. It’s pure teenage pop. Early Pink was more rock than this, so was Avril.

While I expected Allison to go in a more pop direction, I still wanted her to sound like Allison. IMO, she sounds so much like Kelly in the part of the song I did listen to that if I didn’t know better, I would never identify her by her voice. On the show, no matter what she was singing she always had a distinct quality to her voice and that just seems to have been taken away in this song. I don’t think I would have labeled the single as Disney pop-princess if it had retained more of her gravelly edge.

IA that’s what people remember the most about her voice, but in pop radio what you hear the most is the high register. For instance, I love when Kelly sings in her low register but her big hits use more her high notes. That’s why Adam has maybee a shoot at pop radio because even tough it’s dominated by women solo artists, his voice has a feminine quality.

I still don’t see where the Disney pop label comes, from, the four critics refer more to Kelly, Avril or Pink than other artists. The lyrics are too young for my taste for sure but this song seems like a hard song to sing live, that’s what separate Allison from the other pop princess, she actually can sing.

Again, I agree with you SpenserJ. I’ll use a quote from Clapton’s autobiography that sort of fits your analogy:

Music survives everything, and like God, it is always present. It needs no help, and suffers no hindrance. It has always found me, and with God’s blessing and permission, it always will – Eric Clapton

Makes a LOT of sense to me. Are there sites who do that, since Billboard isn’t compiling this very useful info?

Last year, I saw an article from Billboard.biz that quoted all those stats.

That’s an interesting article, Kirsten, but I was more wondering if there are sites that compile artist-specific stats on singles sales and such, as a cumulative measure of success. My comment was in response to Q3′s original post, “Some people are now using album equivalants (agregating digital track sales) to rank artists.”

Rap seems to be suffering the most. Rock is holding it’s ground the best

But the Reuters article MJ posted today seems to paint a slightly different picture.

Rock sales dropped 11.5% to 88.1 million units. R&B (which includes rap) fell 6.6% to 51.4 million units. Country was off just 1.7% to 30.3 million units

It’s hard to tell if it’s the difference of a year, or that comparisons are impossible since rap was included in R&B. But are straight R&B albums doing so well that they’d pull up the rap stats that much. Very interesting…

I disagree that album, cd or whatever sales are at death’s door. I don’t know what format will prove to be the future of the music business, cd’s, EP’s, some new fangled thing I don’t even know about yet. But it will be there. And, some artist or some band is going to make a really great one. And people are going to buy it in droves, just like they always do.

With technology, everything is becoming smaller and more portable. Remember the days of the “walkman”, the newest big thing back then? No more lugging around the boom box. I don’t know how much smaller the iPod/MP3 player can get, tho. Probably just more features and memory.

What I like about a physical CD is the extra little stuff you get, like photos, a little writeup, and lyrics. Only thing I would miss.

The other thing too. You can have one download and spread the wealth (or any words, save other people money).

hwc: What do the three singles released from other Season 8 contestants have to do with Adam Lambert?

I’ll answer that — the first two of them from Jive/19R are covered with that magic 19 sauce that diminishes everything you put it on.

So, I am prepared for Adam’s first album single to be the “son of NoBo”, and hope that the stars are really aligned for Adam and that we get a good single from RCA/19R. But if we do it will be a miracle.

Speaking of miracles, Adam is lucky to have a second single, “Time for Miracles”, that 19R doesn’t have anything to do with except giving permission for Adam to sing it. It is probably a classic, cheesey 80′s style power rock ballad, but it will at least be grand and probably not Auto-Tuned to mediocrity and blandness.

And I have faith that his album will be good — at least some tracks. So as Meat Loaf sang “Two Out Of Three Ain’t Bad” OK, I like “cheesey” songs!

Well stated, CindyM, we have done this to ourselves…..

I’m also wondering if they can’t make up their minds what ‘sound’  they want coming from Adam’s debut single. Otherwise, why take so long?

In some cases, a record company will “release a single” as a large test market to determine if it is even worth investing in a big push — the music videos, the top 40 payola, etc. It costs next to nothing to put a song on iTunes and say that you’ve “released a single”. In return, the record company gets to gauge sales.

It’s quite possible that 19M and Sony have already made their decisions about promoting Adam Lambert and, therefore, they have no need to test the waters with an “iTunes single” at this time. They also are trying to time the release of two singles to support the November release of a world-wide movie followed 11 days later by the release of an album. It could be that they want one of those singles to hit 30 days before the movie and the second to hit at a later time to push album sales.

We don’t know. And… what we think they “should” do doesn’t really matter and won’t change whatever the schedule may be.

I don’t agree that we should judge the idols on some new curve. Lately, I think the most recent acts haven’t gone multi-platinum simply because the music isn’t that special.

Hi Spence! **waves**

I just have a clarifying question. Could you define what you mean by curve? And the recent acts you are referring to.. do you mean idols or do you mean the music biz in general?

I agree with what you said about idol first album sales being inflated, though I wouldn’t say buying campaigns account for half the sales. Maybe 10%? But I do think you get a lot of people buying the album before they listen to the actual music (and ending up disappointed), or buying the album because they like the contestant as a person even though they are not a fan of their genre. Those people disappearing for the second album is, to me, why these people tend to sell only half what they did the second time around – that along with general industry declines of course.

I think you can get a general idea of how many album purchases were more music based by how long and how much they sell after Christmas. I also think single sales tend to be driven by non-idol fan popularity more so than album sales.

Hey Spence- I agree with you there..
One example some out there really are not shying away from buying “Taylor Swift” or “Hannan Montana” or “Twillight “cd at all..I not saying there master pieces in music but are making a pretty penny….

Personally radio for awhile is run by big money (payola )and connections doubtful Doubtful radio will open up more to indies or differesnt types of music..

What I like about a physical CD is the extra little stuff you get, like photos, a little writeup, and lyrics. Only thing I would miss.

Well, there’s also the little thing of getting an original, full-fidelity, uncompressed copy of the recording.

Yes and no. It’s the American Idol family, so he got compared to me, as being rebellious and flamboyant. I got that. I guess I’m known as the rebellious American Idol.

Maybe my memory is bad, but I really don’t remember Adam being compared to Blake all that much. I have to say, Blake probably deserves more recognition than he gets, but I rarely see his name in any idol/Adam article, much less see the words rebellious and flamboyant in the same sentense as his name.

Well not being an audio engineer myself, I’m just going by what I read, and its primary purpose as I understand it is to correct pitch.

MJ is right, autotuning does more than pitch correction, in fact the first prominet use of auto-tuning was to distort the sound in Cher’s Believe, not to correct pitch. The fashion for using autotune in the beginning (and even now by people like Kanye West) was actually to recreate that Cher sound effect.

“I’d be pleasantly surprised if it ever gets anywhere near #1.”

I’d be pleasantly surprised if it even sounded like him at this point.

I’d be pleasantly surprised if we actually get to hear anything from Adam, at this point. LOL. Can you tell that I’m a bit impatient?

I’m not disappointed with the singles released so far. Maybe I’m just trying to be realistic about the market place, and realizing that they have to sell records in order to have a career, but I’ve enjoyed them both, and will be buying one of the 2.

Examiner is not really a news source. It’s a blog that allows regular people to post ‘stories’  on it. You become a ‘West Palm Beach Television Examiner’  by posting in that section and being from West Palm Beach.

I’ve stopped posting examiner articles in my headlines altogether.

But that doesn’t mean his (Adam’s) first song won’t be a hit. In fact, given who he’s working with, I would say the odds are at least one of those songs will be hit single material.

I agree and would add that the ‘hype’ and ‘media’ surrounding Adam and the single/Album release only add to the potential for more ‘out side the idol bubble’ consumers to hear and then buy his music.

The current ‘cool’ factor associated with ‘anything Adam Lambert’ will allow for more follow-up articles when the album comes out and translate into more radio play and appearances and we all know appearances raise sales.

Just look at the fact they are bringing back “idol gives back’ I am sure Adam will be a guest if not just on ‘gives back’ but a regular idol show and these appearances alone give boosts to sales. (see any guests boosted #s) but Adam will have more oppotunities, because he is currently ‘cool’, to be seen on numerous shows – well beyond the normal scheduled appearances of a ‘runner-up’.

All that said even if the Album or single(s) are only fair to good songs – he will have the oppotunities to ‘show’ viewers what he can do. More people looking him up online, etc.

And again I have to agree with quote above – he is working with such great/proven talent and ‘hit makers’ I would bet at least a few of the songs are hit worthy.

What I like about a physical CD is the extra little stuff you get, like photos, a little writeup, and lyrics. Only thing I would miss.

That is the part that is so important to me. I think it adds to the music and the overall feeling the artist is trying to convey with their album. That’s not even mentioning what sounds better (hint: It ain’t iTunes). However, I can still remember buying a new record, devouring each inch of the jacket before opening it, and hoping the sleeve had more goodness. For me, still, an integral part of listening to an album is reading the words that are put forth.

I’ll answer that ‘” the first two of them from Jive/19R are covered with that magic 19 sauce that diminishes everything you put it on.

I still don’t see any connection.

The artist’s talent is still going to dictate the pop album that is produced. Anybody can sing. Being able to harness the opportunities, within the constraints of the system, to produce a creative, interesting recording is what has always separated the worthy artists from the pretenders.

What some other idol wannabee (and I believe that MJ has “strongly advised” that we not compare specific idols) has absolutely nothing to do with the prospects for Adam Lambert’s album or immediate post-Idol career trajectory. That is soley up to Adam Lambert and his ability to interact with the people he is working with and shape his music.

SpenserJ
October 6, 2009 at 2:05 pm
I disagree that album, cd or whatever sales are at death’s door.

No one is saying that music and musical sales are at death’s door. But I’ll highly disagree with your premise that the decline in album sales in based on the quality of the music and that, it will rise again.

Nope…..people are still listening to music, but in totally different formats. My basic cable provider has about 30 music stations that play music all day…from classical to rock in all its formats. So why should I go out and by an album where I’ll only like 1 or 2 tunes instead of just turning on the TV sound and having music all day. And my car has an MP3 player, so I just download songs I like and make my own CD. In fact I have one CD with about 300 songs on it.

New music….when I am on my computer I just pull up a you tube, go to a streaming site, or play my I-Tune stuff.

Hard copy album sales are dying….only 2 or 3 stores now have a CD section…and music is controlled by what WalMart and Target will carry. So to think that any Idol will have even the opportunity to match sales of Kelly and Carrie is absurd….won’t happen. And to judge their success based on that frivolous comparison is nothing but delusional.

There’s a big article about Chikezie in Soap Opera Digest…

http://www.soapoperadigest.com/features/general-hospital/interviews/chikezie_eze/

Here’s a little teaser:

Digest: What’s the most important thing you learned from your IDOL experience?
Eze: Until I was on IDOL, I never knew how much people could hate you [laughs]. It was like a crash course on people hating you. I’m pretty sure I was the most hated. People wanted me dead. I’m like, “Wow, I didn’t do anything. I’m just on a TV show, right?”

Maybe my memory is bad, but I really don’t remember Adam being compared to Blake all that much. I have to say, Blake probably deserves more recognition than he gets, but I rarely see his name in any idol/Adam article, much less see the words rebellious and flamboyant in the same sentense as his name.

I have NEVER seen Blake in any article I’ve read about Adam. I also haven’t see rebellious either. I think it is more Blake would like to associate himsefl with Adam rather than vice versa. Blake may be talented in his own rights, but he still lacks many of Adam’s attributes. I knew Blake and Giraud were communicating a alot (and some socializing), but I didn’t know Blake was with Adam.

Maybe my memory is bad, but I really don’t remember Adam being compared to Blake all that much.

Who is Blake? Is that Adam’s boyfriend, the one from Lousiana?

To quote Kara, here’s the thing’ ¦ at least in this song there is NO rock. It’s not pop-rock. It’s pure teenage pop. Early Pink was more rock than this, so was Avril.

Pink first album was rock? Can’t Take Me Home was pure pop/Rnb nothing rock at all, same for Kelly and both of them were older than Allison when they released their first album.
Avril had maybee some songs that were more punk-rock but if you take some of her biggest singles like “I’m With You” it can sound like Disney too. I expect some tracks that will be more rock than Friday on Allison’s album too.

Friday sounds like the same formula Max Martin applies to his big success, initial guitar riff and big anthemic chorus. Unfortunately for me it sounds more like My life Would Suck (with teen oriented lyrics) than SUBG but that’s the direction where pop radio seems headed right now.

Yet each and every time, some new artist has come along and created something that invades the culture so fully that the business and the idea of the packaged album again recover.

I agree with you to a certain extent– maybe if a new MJ or Beatles comes along, the album will recover. That said, I think at least a small adjustment downward of sales levels is warranted.

One example some out there really are not shying away from buying ‘Taylor Swift’  or ‘Hannan Montana’  or ‘Twillight ‘cd at all..I not saying there master pieces in music but are making a pretty penny’ ¦.

People love Taylor Swift’s new album, and the 4x platinum is nothing to sneeze at, but didn’t Avril sell like 7x platinum back in her day? (Carrie’s first album also sold 7x a few years back. Folks bought the Twilight soundtrack in droves, but it’s just 2x platinum? Didn’t the Bodyguard soundtrack sell something ridiculous like 17x platinum? You can say that the Bodyguard movie captured pop culture back then more than Twilight has now, but was Avril that much more of “the hottest teen act” than Taylor is now? Or is Taylor any less popular with young country fans today than Carrie was then? I guess some of these are subjective arguments, but overall, I do think a slight downward adjustment of album sales benchmarks is appropriate.

(and I believe that MJ has ‘strongly advised’  that we not compare specific idols)

So MJ wants us not to compare Idols to each other? I must have missed the memo.

The AI writers have built in biases, either negative or positive (as demonstrated by earlier articles) and have a built in presumption about what they feel the album/song should feel like and sound like. And this will definitely skew their critique.

For me, I’d rather wait and have someone judge the song(s) from a fresh perspective.

Tess, I agree with this, but I would also add that any singer, once they have released an album, is going to have to deal with the biases of listeners/critics for any subsequent work. Once an artist is categorized as being of a particular style, there will always be criticism if they veer in another direction. A “fresh perspective” is hard to find, once previous work is out there. The best I hope for from music critics is an open mind.

And I also agree with mj‘s earlier comment, that artists do better in terms of putting out music that is true to their own style, if they know themselves before they step into the studio (paraphrasing…).
This is why I am more hopeful about Adam’s album than Kris’s or Allison’s. He is older, more mature, and has more experience than the others, and seems to have a good sense of his own style. So unless he is absolutely strong-armed by his label, I am cautiously optimistic that his album will sound “like Adam.”

I think only about half of their sales numbers are represented by actual, individual purchasers.

I think that’s true. But I think it’s probably less true for the albums that accumulate their sales over a longer time period.

Some have sold a ton right out of the gate — adn that’s clearly AI fans buying (and overbuying).

Whereas others have worked their way to gold or platinum (or 300,000 sales or multiplat or whatever …) over a year or more. And in those cases, I would bet that there’s a much higher proportion of new fans actually picking up those albums, rather than AI fans buying multiples.

Pink first album was rock? Can’t Take Me Home was pure pop/Rnb nothing rock at all, same for Kelly and both of them were older than Allison when they released their first album.

Heh. ITA. Both those ladies released semi generic albums that were reflecting what was popular on the radio at the time, and both reinvented themselves on album number 2. They got away with it because people fell in love with thier personas (and their voices) on the first time around, so their fans followed them on the journey. And both second efforts were excellent, well done pop rock.

I really don’t expect Adam’s single to be any good, after hearing Allison’s and Kris’. What I fear the most is that they make his voice as unrecognizable as they made Allison’s. What made me dislike Allison’s single so much is that it doesn’t sound like her at all, and I love her natural voice. I’m prepared for Adam’s single to be some bland crappy eletronic thing, but if his voice is so over-produced to the point of being unrecognizable, then I’m really gonna be disapointed (and probably cry).

Have you guys seens the comments section about the swastikas story on VFTW? OMG! People say that Adam fans are OTT, but the Adam haters are MUCH worse, IMO. The intensity of their hate towards him is so surreal. I think that story was blown way out of proportion. It’s just a small drawing, I don’t think it was meant to represent any ideology on Adam’s part. Maybe I’m being naive, I don’t know, but I don’t think Adam saw any swastikas on the jacket until people started acusing him of being a jewish nazi.

Lately, I think the most recent acts haven’t gone multi-platinum simply because the music isn’t that special.

I don’t think Daughtry’s latest effort is less special than their first album, or that Kelly’s music is worst than her second album, neverthless those two won’t come close to the numbers they had before. (Granted, Daughtry’s album has not been out for that long, but it’s clearly not doing like the first one).

One example some out there really are not shying away from buying ‘Taylor Swift’  or ‘Hannan Montana’  or ‘Twillight ‘cd at all..I not saying there master pieces in music but are making a pretty penny’ ¦.

I think this just shows how things are different these days. The number of copies those albums have sold are Wow amazing these days. But back in the day double platinum was not exactly the best thing out there.

Music survives everything, and like God, it is always present. It needs no help, and suffers no hindrance. It has always found me, and with God’s blessing and permission, it always will ‘“ Eric Clapton

Well, at least Eric & I are on the same page I think that if Hootie and the Blowfish can bring the music biz back from the brink, surely there’s someone else who can do it this time.

Remember the days of the ‘walkman’ , the newest big thing back then?

Got my first walkman in middle school, and that thing was awesome!

I just have a clarifying question. Could you define what you mean by curve? And the recent acts you are referring to.. do you mean idols or do you mean the music biz in general?

Well, I think it’s hard to actually compare the idols to other peeps in the industry. They start off with a better introduction to the population than anyone could hope for. But then, they’re music is processed through the Idol machine where creativity appears to be diluted. Then, they get a fabulous TV & radio promo cycle that should be helped by the fact that for many, they are a household name.

Theoretically, the AI alums should have the advantage over the industry newbies. But I think the generic quality of the post AI cd’s sometimes negates their advantage.

I don’t think Taylor selling 800K cd’s after being one of the most famous men in America is a really big accomplishment. I think it’s kind of ho hum. But, I find his success in front of a live audience in the face of dwindling cd sales really impressive.

I see a lot of “well he/she sold one million cd’s and in this economy, that’s fantastic”. And, I just don’t agree with that. I think it’s okay, but nothing special. Especially for those of them who’ve been given the opportunity to sing one of their singles on a TV show watched by nearly 30 million people.

As far as the bulk buying thing goes, maybe I’m exagerating when I say “half”, but it’s surely more than 10% at least in some cases. And, I’ll say this, even though I know it will bring on the fireants LOL….. I don’t know anyone in real life who purchased Light On as a single. I don’t know anyone who’s ever even mentioned liking it. And while many of those sales may have been to people outside the bubble for one reason or another, I believe the only reason that single went platinum was because a pocketful of uber fantards kept buying it again every week just to prove to Kirsten that it wasn’t a boat anchor.

I’m also wondering if they can’t make up their minds what ‘sound’  they want coming from Adam’s debut single. Otherwise, why take so long?

Well, Adam’s said for a long time — Single in mid-October. It isn’t even close to mid-October yet. If it overshoots the 22nd, 23rd, or so, then maybe it’ll suggest something’s taking a long time. But otherwise, it’s still right on schedule, seems to me.

I have NEVER seen Blake in any article I’ve read about Adam. I also haven’t see rebellious either. I think it is more Blake would like to associate himsefl with Adam rather than vice versa. Blake may be talented in his own rights, but he still lacks many of Adam’s attributes. I knew Blake and Giraud were communicating a alot (and some socializing), but I didn’t know Blake was with Adam.

Lyndsey Parker from that Yahoo reality blog harped on Blake’s influence on Adam a LOT during her interview with him. But she’s a mega-Idol fangirl, so her perspective isn’t necessarily reflective of mainstream media. Mainstream media has largely forgotten about Blake. That said, I do think Blake deserves some credit for changing AI, and also, Adam has pimped Blake’s latest album. I think Blake can come off a bit douchy, but I don’t think he is making up his association with Adam.

I’m also wondering if they can’t make up their minds what ‘sound’  they want coming from Adam’s debut single. Otherwise, why take so long?

I think the single is going to be released when most of the album work is done and adam is free to promote it like crazy – mid october. This has been a problem for kris, who was in london and still has to record. Adam has been locked in studio all these weeks exactly to be available later. RCA is going for big numbers, repressing demand like they did with preorders.

and I believe that MJ has ‘strongly advised’  that we not compare specific idols

You twist my words.

For the sake of a rational discussion it’s fine. To bring up an Idol out of thin air, to bait the fans of a rival, not so much.

Have you guys seens the comments section about the swastikas story on VFTW? OMG! People say that Adam fans are OTT, but the Adam haters are MUCH worse, IMO. The intensity of their hate towards him is so surreal. I think that story was blown way out of proportion. It’s just a small drawing, I don’t think it was meant to represent any ideology on Adam’s part. Maybe I’m being naive, I don’t know, but I don’t think Adam saw any swastikas on the jacket until people started acusing him of being a jewish nazi.

I haven’t been on there, but the person who runs VFTW is a Kris lover and Adam hater. He is trying to bring down Adam. That must be working because Adam’s percentage sales went down while Kris’s went up.

People love Taylor Swift’s new album, and the 4x platinum is nothing to sneeze at

Sure and it ranks right up their with Shania Twain’s “Come on Over” which sold 20 million albums.

Have you guys seens the comments section about the swastikas story on VFTW? OMG! People say that Adam fans are OTT, but the Adam haters are MUCH worse, IMO.

Heh, nothing out of the ordinary for their “standards”, if you’re not used to them, read one or two pages of the Carly Smithson or Constantine threads, really nauseating stuff.

Combining a couple of posts:

Oh and on that note I expect the 2012 song to be a cheese fest, I mean with a title like ‘Time For Miracles,’  and given the film it’s for?

I like cheese. But, even if the song is too cheesy, if Adam’s voice is allowed to shine, I think that it will be a good showcase for him.

I don’t think there has ever been an Idol debut single that did not get a mixed critical and fan reaction, whether it went on to sell a ton or not. People will love/hate not matter what you do.

There probably haven’t been many singles from anyone, AI related or not, that haven’t received mixed reactions from fans and critics. There is no way to please 100% of the people. Selfishly, I want it to please me, though. And, I want the singles to allow Kris, Allison, and Adam to get to record a 2nd album, and have longevity in the field.

Who is Blake? Is that Adam’s boyfriend, the one from Lousiana?

hwc, please don’t ever change!

What some other idol wannabee…has absolutely nothing to do with the prospects for Adam Lambert’s album or immediate post-Idol career trajectory. That is soley up to Adam Lambert and his ability to interact with the people he is working with and shape his music.

Adam, Kris and Allison are all operating under the same constraints: They are producing albums in a very short period of time–part of that time performing on a gruelling tour.

They are also part of the same system–one that’s trying to capitalize on the unique fame of an Idol graduate. They’re famous, but not for their music. The idea is to squeeze as much money out of them in as short amount of time as possible, with very little artist development.

If what TPTB happen to throw against the wall sticks, then the Idols might get treated like artists who enter the system via other avenues.

But that first release is created under very special circumstances unique to the Idol system.

This is why I am more hopeful about Adam’s album than Kris’s or Allison’s. He is older, more mature, and has more experience than the others, and seems to have a good sense of his own style. So unless he is absolutely strong-armed by his label, I am cautiously optimistic that his album will sound ‘like Adam.’ 

I disagree with this statement. Kris and Allison both have a strong sense of their own styles and both know what works for each of them. Adam is in the same predicament as Kris and Allison. He will have no more input into this first album than Allison or Kris. The label is calling the shots – no doubt about it.</

I haven’t been on there, but the person who runs VFTW is a Kris lover and Adam hater. He is trying to bring down Adam. That must be working because Adam’s percentage sales went down while Kris’s went up.

Bestai, I think you’re giving those sleazeballs too much credit.

‘I’d be pleasantly surprised if it ever gets anywhere near #1.’ 

I’d be pleasantly surprised if it even sounded like him at this point.

I’d be pleasantly surprised if we actually get to hear anything from Adam, at this point. LOL. Can you tell that I’m a bit impatient?

I sense impatience and desperation setting in. Makes you wonder what, if anything, RCA is doing. They seem way behind the curve at this point.

I haven’t been on there, but the person who runs VFTW is a Kris lover and Adam hater. He is trying to bring down Adam. That must be working because Adam’s percentage sales went down while Kris’s went up.

Vote for the Worst is not a Kris lover. They love skewering all things Idol. Blaming it on Kris fans is just fanning the flames and starting another fanwar. Have you ever read past seasons? They’ve been just as nasty to lots of Idols. It’s the makeup of the site, that’s why I don’t go there.

Heh

thedavidcook: # Got stopped by Papparazzi while walking into the doctor. I was on the phone with my dad. Man, he is so famous!!!
23 minutes ago from mobile web

It’s the price of fame I suppose but at least he has a good sense of humor about it.

And, I’ll say this, even though I know it will bring on the fireants LOL’ ¦.. I don’t know anyone in real life who purchased Light On as a single. I don’t know anyone who’s ever even mentioned liking it.

LOL, I HAVE to respond to this, cuz I have a story. I loved DC on Idol, but didn’t purchase LO as a single, cuz I didn’t love it, and knew I’d get it with the album anyway. I don’t like wasting my 99 cents. And yes, LO took forever to gain traction on radio, BUT it did make it to Top 40 radio, specifically Z100. so I don’t think the 1 million units sold of LO are all from AI fans.

My story: So I was at a friend’s apartment for a New Years Eve party, where I was pretty trashed well before midnight. I vaguely remember we had the Dick Clark/Ryan Seacrest countdown on the TV. I recall watching the JoBros and Taylor Swift, and complaining about their existence, while thinking in the back of my mind that we should change the channel to Fox to see that motorcycle stunt and DAVID COOK. Full disclosure, I’m a closet AI fan except to certain friends– so I lucid enough not to blurt that out and reveal my AI/DC fandom. Sometime after the countdown, my friend was playing music from his ipod, and I hear Light On come on. I FREAKED out. I checked his ipod to make sure I wasn’t hallucinating, and yup, he had bought the single. I remember thinking, dude, my friends are pretty much Z100 lemmings and will buy anything they spin. I confirmed it a while later when I found LO on another NY friend’s ipod. Moral of the story? DC needs more Top40 hits!

P.S. I never did reveal to everyone that I was freaking out over an American Idol single. There was enough stuff going on that I could cover it up as just a random alcohol-induced outburst .

VFTW does not discriminate, I think that they are negative about all the Idols not just Adam. I don’t believe they like anybody.

So to think that any Idol will have even the opportunity to match sales of Kelly and Carrie is absurd’ ¦.won’t happen. And to judge their success based on that frivolous comparison is nothing but delusional.

My opinion may be absurd or delusional to you, but I still believe it. I do not think it’s impossible to sell three million albums in this day and age. I think it can be done.

And really, it’s not just about the numbers. The fact of the matter is that Taylor, Jordin and Cook have all failed to permeate the pop culture in the same manner that Kelly and Carrie have. And, I say that being a fairly big Taylor fan. To me, that’s just the way it is.

Well, I think it’s hard to actually compare the idols to other peeps in the industry. They start off with a better introduction to the population than anyone could hope for. But then, they’re music is processed through the Idol machine where creativity appears to be diluted. Then, they get a fabulous TV & radio promo cycle that should be helped by the fact that for many, they are a household name.

Oh, I get it. No, I don’t think you can do a direct comparison between a new non idol act and an idol debut, I agree with that. I meant more like you have to look at how success us defined for acts like that idol, as opposed to looking at other idols. Man, that sounded confusing. LOL.

Okay, like take Archie. He had a single that sold something like 1.5 mil (?) by the time he fell off the charts, and he sold 700,000+ albums altogether, probably about 150,000 after christmas. So if you put him on the list of idol sales, you would say.. eh, its okay, not great. Hit song but little else. But if you put him up against say, Jessie McCartney or someone like that.. recent young pop acts that appeal heavily to teens.. he looks not bad at all. He’s touring well, he sold way more albums and singles than the Mitchel Mustos of the world, and he still seems to actively have the attention of his market way after the next season ended. He’s not as successful as the Jo Bros, but he’s certainly working towards it. So I would expect a new idol to do better than the average newbie in their genre album wise, and show signs that he/she’s catching on with the right audience. I WOULDN’T expect a new idol to have the exact same career trajectory of Daughtry or be deemed a loser. Did that make more sense?

Light On did not sell Platinum by only Idol fans buying the song. A lot of Idol fans did not like it and did not buy it. But it still sold. When I mentioned that I liked David Cook to a coworker they mentioned Light On so it had some wide appeal.

Don’t give VFTW too much credit, their influence has waned, IMO.

However, their feeling they have something in regards to the jacket is giving twitter fodder for Adam haters.

What I like about a physical CD is the extra little stuff you get, like photos, a little writeup, and lyrics. Only thing I would miss.

What I hate about the physical CD (well in the case of Idol CDs) is the tangible evidence that you bought, say, a Taylor Hicks cd. I STILL have an unopened Taylor CD buried in a dresser drawer.

I don’t know anyone in real life who purchased Light On as a single. I don’t know anyone who’s ever even mentioned liking it. And while many of those sales may have been to people outside the bubble for one reason or another, I believe the only reason that single went platinum was because a pocketful of uber fantards kept buying it again every week just to prove to Kirsten that it wasn’t a boat anchor.

I’m a Cook fan (in case there was anyone left here who didn’t know that;-) and I didn’t like Light On very much. But I’ve been to a few of his concerts, including those at festivals and fairs where there were a good deal of non-AI people, and you would be surprised how well received Light On and Come Back to Me are. Seriously. I sure was. Those two songs are on the radio and people get used to them and they recognize them.

It is Cook’s more diehard fans that go nuts over Kiss on the Neck, Lie, Bar-ba-sol, Avalanche and all the other songs on his CD that didn’t become singles but are actually BETTER than his two singles. Only after they hear David singing these other songs do these more casual concert attendees get a feel for what Cook is actually like, and that either makes *them* a fan OR they are discouraged that this is not the guy that sang “Always Be My Baby” or “Time of My Life” on Idol. (And yes, I have been to concerts where people are disappointed that he didn’t sing “Time of My Life.”)

So, there are clearly people who like “Light On,” who weren’t uber-fans who bought the song every week.

I haven’t been on there, but the person who runs VFTW is a Kris lover and Adam hater. He is trying to bring down Adam. That must be working because Adam’s percentage sales went down while Kris’s went up.

Eh? VFTW will pick on any and all the contestants. If any one of them had worn a vest with Swastikas on, they would have featured that too. No Idol is sacred on that site. I seriously doubt they are rabid Kris fans. Don’t they call him a monkey or something and mock him for the lack of press he gets?

I don’t think that Adam’s percentage sales going down has a thing to do with this “scandal”. If it had hit the mainstream, press, maybe. The only people who know about this are the Idol Bubble Diehards and it doesn’t seem like there is a mass exodus from the Adam side of that bubble. The Glamberts seem to be standing by their man. If anything, I think the evening up of the percentages is simply because the bulk of Adam fans have made their orders and sales are leveling off.

I do not think it’s impossible to sell three million albums in this day and age. I think it can be done.

3 mill is totally within reach, but Kelly and Carrie’s best albums sold 6 and 7 mil. That’s out of reach unless we discover the next Michael Jackson or Beatles, I think. Even if we find the next Shania, she probably won’t hit 20 mil. That’s also out of reach, I think.

And really, it’s not just about the numbers. The fact of the matter is that Taylor, Jordin and Cook have all failed to permeate the pop culture in the same manner that Kelly and Carrie have.

TOTALLY agree with this. Based on Cook’s post- AI popularity, if he had struck a chord with the public/mainstream music media/radio, he would’ve hit 2mil easily. He didn’t. So, IMO I think on one hand he’s successful in a lot of ways, not that successful in many others.

(And yes, I have been to concerts where people are disappointed that he didn’t sing ‘Time of My Life.’ )

Not ashamed to admit it. Saw him in Santa Fe in June and I wanted to hear Time of My Life. I love those friggin’ Magic Rainbows and it was a special moment when he sang it on the finale.

He didn’t sing it, and I’ll admit, I was a bit disappointed.

TOTALLY agree with this. Based on Cook’s post- AI popularity, if he had struck a chord with the public/mainstream music media/radio, he would’ve hit 2mil easily. He didn’t. So, IMO I think on one hand he’s successful in a lot of ways, not that successful in many others.

Yeah, I agree too. He has hit with a subset of the music audience, not on the mainstream. I think that is accurate.

And, I’ll say this, even though I know it will bring on the fireants LOL’ ¦.. I don’t know anyone in real life who purchased Light On as a single. I don’t know anyone who’s ever even mentioned liking it. And while many of those sales may have been to people outside the bubble for one reason or another, I believe the only reason that single went platinum was because a pocketful of uber fantards kept buying it again every week just to prove to Kirsten that it wasn’t a boat anchor.

Best $52 I ever spent. Ha.

I see a lot of ‘well he/she sold one million cd’s and in this economy, that’s fantastic’ . And, I just don’t agree with that. I think it’s okay, but nothing special. Especially for those of them who’ve been given the opportunity to sing one of their singles on a TV show watched by nearly 30 million people.

If a single guest artist on the show could attribute more than 60,000 single sales, much less a notable uptick in album sales, to an appearance, I think this argument would have merit.

Katy Perry’s WUIV has yet to go double-platinum. Her album might not hit 1.5 million. This is a highly buzzed about artist who came in with a fully-constructed public persona and name recognition. But those 30 million people still didn’t run out and convert to purchasers in any notable way. You can argue that the song isn’t inspiring them, and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree, but I am hard pressed to see that it’s more about the product than about the composition and financial means of the audience.

You can argue that there has been an exponential shift in the speed of distribution of media and a seismic change in the channels by which people consume it, constantly shrinking the idea of “mass culture,” or you can argue that all creative works in the last five years have been largely without merit except for that blonde girl from PA and that tattooed guy from New Orleans.

I’ll pick door number 1.

That is so harsh what VFTW is doing to Adam. I would compare Adam/swatiskas to any white idol associated with the KKK. How can anyone be that low and disgusting? Sounds to me they are bottom feeders. What is worse is that so many people are believing it.

Did someone say that Rickey is also getting on their bandwagon?

I think some people underestimate how much illegal downloads also play into less sales. Most people I know don’t give much of a thought against downloading music illegally. I’m not condoning it, but it’s true, especially among people who aren’t conditioned to buy albums.

Also, people can easily share a CD, giving people copies, etc. It’s good enough quality for the iPod, unlike just copying for tapes.

They are trying to boost album sales by offering extras on iTunes, the revival of vinyl, etc. I think they still have to find footing to increase album sales.

And really, it’s not just about the numbers. The fact of the matter is that Taylor, Jordin and Cook have all failed to permeate the pop culture in the same manner that Kelly and Carrie have. And, I say that being a fairly big Taylor fan. To me, that’s just the way it is.

I agree that those three haven’t permeated pop culture in the same way as Kelly and Carrie, but it’s not because of sales and numbers alone. Lady GaGa isn’t crazy ahead of Cook in album sales (US alone, that is), but she has permeated pop culture a lot more than him. Plus, she has had a lot of hit singles, which is what keeps many artists present now.

Makes you wonder what, if anything, RCA is doing. They seem way behind the curve at this point.

RCA is doing exactly what RCA always does with AIers. They aren’t as big as Jive is on releasing singles early. Most AIers on RCA have had singles released 2 weeks to 1 month prior to the cd release, usually closer to that 2 week mark. That doesn’t mean you won’t hear anything until the cd is two wks to one month from release, it just means the actual release date to radio is closer to cd release time.

Look for something anywhere from October 20th-November 10th, if RCA follows their usual pattern.

LOL, cheese, I’m with you. (and have the same unopened cd). It’s much easier to be a closet idol fan if you visit itunes.

I sense impatience and desperation setting in. Makes you wonder what, if anything, RCA is doing. They seem way behind the curve at this point.

well, yeah, as I said, I’m being impatient. but, RCA is still on target with what has been announced for some time. Adam’s single was always given a release date of about mid-October. I know when Christmas is, too, but that doesn’t mean that I might not get impatient about giving or getting a fun gift. The impatience is only a problem on my end, and not on RCA’s end. They’re right on track, as far as I can tell, and I’d rather not have them rush something out, even if I’m pacing in front of ITunes, waiting for the release.

back to pacing. (It’s good exercise, at least.)

I’m not sure if this has been posted yet…from adamofficial…

“Stay Tuned for “Question of the Day” Videos with Adam!
OCTOBER 6, 2009, 2:44 pm

As if there weren’t already enough reasons to love Adam, we’ve just brought you more! To tide all of you ravenous Glamberts over until his album is released, we’ll be featuring Adam’s response to a new question we pitch him every day in our upcoming ‘Question of the Day’  video series! These daily videos will premiere tomorrow, so stay tuned!”

VFTW does not discriminate, I think that they are negative about all the Idols not just Adam. I don’t believe they like anybody.

They don’t like themselves or each other!

I believe the only reason that single went platinum was because a pocketful of uber fantards kept buying it again every week just to prove to Kirsten that it wasn’t a boat anchor.

LOL Sorry to break it to you, but uber fantars can’t make a single go platinum. Uber fantars can’t even put a song in the top 100 of itunes if they try, and I’ve seen the largest fanbases trying to do that. I’d like to know Kirsten’s opinion about that, but I don’t think even Kirsten would say that was the reason went platinum.
For the most part I don’t think the world can be understood only by the people around us. I look at my friends, and if we decided what sells the most the charts would be so different. But I understand there’s a big world out there outside my box.

VFTW does not discriminate, I think that they are negative about all the Idols not just Adam. I don’t believe they like anybody

Yes, they call Kris “Who?” — which, I admit, I find funny and I voted for the guy!!

However, they do pick a pet favorite who they cheer lead from then on. Season 7 it was Amanda and last season it was Megan. Even of those they “dislike,” there are degrees to their disdain.

I agree that those three haven’t permeated pop culture in the same way as Kelly and Carrie,

I would not include Jordin in that. I think she has had much mainstream success with her singles. People know who she is, I just don’t think a lot of people are passionate about her.

That is so harsh what VFTW is doing to Adam. I would compare Adam/swatiskas to any white idol associated with the KKK. How can anyone be that low and disgusting? Sounds to me they are bottom feeders. What is worse is that so many people are believing it.

Well, Kristy Lee Cook did a YouTube video prior to her AI audition where she had the confederate flag prominently displayed behind her, thus earning the VFTW nickname of KKKristy. She did something dumb and so did Adam. I’m sure he’s thick skinned enough to take some hazing over it.

Is Adam and anti-semite? Of course not. Was he dumb for wearing that jacket and not expecting at some point people would notice and call him on it? Yep. He’s opened himself up to the criticism, regardless of whether it is over the top or not.

As far as the bulk buying thing goes, maybe I’m exagerating when I say ‘half’ , but it’s surely more than 10% at least in some cases. And, I’ll say this, even though I know it will bring on the fireants LOL’ ¦.. I don’t know anyone in real life who purchased Light On as a single. I don’t know anyone who’s ever even mentioned liking it. And while many of those sales may have been to people outside the bubble for one reason or another, I believe the only reason that single went platinum was because a pocketful of uber fantards kept buying it again every week just to prove to Kirsten that it wasn’t a boat anchor.

LOL, I’m a total cooktard and I didn’t purchase Light On even once, let alone multiple times. Although I admit that I did purchase 2 copies of the album. Granted, I was not overly impressed by the song when it first came out, but in retrospect I think that my initial impressions were artificially influenced by a number of factors: unrealistic expectations, fan angst, annoyance that it was not one of his co-writes, and perhaps most significantly, mob mentality. I recently heard LO again and I was stunned by how much I actually enjoyed it.

Didn’t it sell pretty “slowly but surely” over the 9-10 months it took to hit platinum? Not exactly the hallmark of an organized fan initiative. Also, wasn’t there a measurable bump in sales everytime he sang it on television (live and re-runs)? I honestly think that there are quite a number of people who genuinely like the song. Totally speculative, but I think that LO appeals mostly to heterosexual men between the ages of 30 and 50 who dislike AI and everything it stands for. Not exactly this blog’s key demographic.

cheese
October 6, 2009 at 3:04 pm

What I hate about the physical CD (well in the case of Idol CDs) is the tangible evidence that you bought, say, a Taylor Hicks cd. I STILL have an unopened Taylor CD buried in a dresser drawer.

Garbage cans are your friend, preferably at 3:00 a.m. when nobody will be able to see exactly what it is you’re throwing out.

The only reason i have hope for adam’s cd is because people in industry seemed so enthusiastic for the album, with a lot of people wanting to have a piece of work in it (see you kevin griffin, and also refer to that swedish blogger, redone and tedder interviews) that I think they may have given Adam their best material, or at least not the default mediocre idol material. I read a lot of times that this is what happened to carrie.

Adam has an amazing voice and will do great with at least average-above average material. In this sense, I think the hype, although risky, may pay up.

But I am prepared for a very poppish single, as I was with Allison and Kris. They need to burst the bubble to have a future, fans have to understand it. This means doing something that sells… if you checke itnues top 20, you get the idea. I dont want a masterpiece for my earsm I want something that may ensure them a future as recording artists.

The fact of the matter is that Taylor, Jordin and Cook have all failed to permeate the pop culture in the same manner that Kelly and Carrie have. And, I say that being a fairly big Taylor fan.

So what’s the point? Taylor, for instance, didn’t even come close to the sales of Kelly and Carrie. Jordin either. Cook has come a little closer (to Kelly’s first year sales, perhaps). But what’s the point?

David Cook has one cd out for one year. He’s already working on his next cd, due out possibly next summer. Kelly and Carrie have multiple cds, singles, and videos. They are in a different ball game.

Also, most artists will not equal the sales of those mega-super-stars. Kelly, Carrie and Daughtry are in a league of their own when it comes to Idol alumni and sales. Nobody disputes that. There’s no argument there.

As a Cook fan, I hope he has such good sales with future cds. I hope he has many cds, singles, and videos in his future. But up to now, of course he has not achieved that kind of success. And not being a pop artist, or a country artist, maybe he never will. However I still think he might. There are rock artists doing it, and so can he. I’m already excited about the next cd.

For the record, I purchased LO on a single because it came out two months before the cd did, so it was the only way to have it. Not because I was a crazed fan trying to help his numbers. I’m not aware of any fan drive to purchase it in droves. I’ve never heard anything like that on his fan boards. I don’t think it’s a big deal that it’s a platinum seller. I mean it’s nice, but ultimately it’s the cd sales that I think are important.

He was the Idol winner and LO was his first single off his first cd. Of course a lot of people bought it. I think the bulk of the sales came then. Just like Adam and Kris and Allison’s first singles will probably sell well. Idol fans want to hear the first single.

ADAM TO BE ANSWERING QUESTIONS DAILY UNTIL ALBUM RELEASED:

“Stay Tuned for “Question of the Day” Videos with Adam!
OCTOBER 6, 2009, 2:44 pm

As if there weren’t already enough reasons to love Adam, we’ve just brought you more! To tide all of you ravenous Glamberts over until his album is released, we’ll be featuring Adam’s response to a new question we pitch him every day in our upcoming ‘Question of the Day’  video series! These daily videos will premiere tomorrow, so stay tuned!”

http://www.adamofficial.com/news/stay-tuned-question-day-videos-adam

ETA: borrow from ontd_ai
ETAA: New video of Adam everyday for over a month!!!
Although the videos may be taken in a couple of days, but still…squeeee

hi guys!!! I’m waaaay behind on homework so I’ll do that today.don’t think there’s much news.YAY to idol gives bck coming back but wish it happend this season.sad no Adam news.vftw make me lol even though they’re_____insert word of choice here.I’m perfectly fine with_____’s that don’t like Adam.what they posted was wrong(I think) but hey they’re vftw.whatevs.yay to the ao Adam question thing!!!

okkkkk bye

I am curious because I believe that David Cook is a success but apparently some on this site continue to believe he is not. And that somehow his fans from Idol are propping him up. What exactly does he have to do to be successful? What is it that he needs to accomplish in order to be successful in your eyes? Jordan is considered more of a success than David? Have you seen her latest album sales? Platinum album, platinum singles, radio hits x 3, sold out concerts. I am clearly not getting what it is about David’s success that is lacking.

Hoopla!

I’m not going to go to VFTW and give them hits, or waste my time reading drivel. My life is sad enough chasing news tidbits about the glittery one without reading that nonsense.

How many controversies have centered around Adam by now? I’ve lost count. Again I say- hoopla!

Fianlly, his label is listening and calming the obsessive masses! Video of the Day should help calm the impatient fans storming the gates!

This is why I am more hopeful about Adam’s album than Kris’s or Allison’s. He is older, more mature, and has more experience than the others, and seems to have a good sense of his own style. So unless he is absolutely strong-armed by his label, I am cautiously optimistic that his album will sound ‘like Adam.’ 

I disagree with this statement. Kris and Allison both have a strong sense of their own styles and both know what works for each of them. Adam is in the same predicament as Kris and Allison. He will have no more input into this first album than Allison or Kris. The label is calling the shots ‘“ no doubt about it.

I actually think that Allison has the least developed musical identity of the 3. I think both Kris and Adam have clear pictures of themselves as artists, while Allison is still young and will have time to mature (at least I hope she does well enough to have that opportunity. Maybe marketing Allison to the younger crowd will help her and allow her to mature into what many of us (myself included) expected her to be. But I worry that she might have problems that are similar to Archie in that I’ve never been clear on who his target audience is. I’m also not clear on who they are targeting as Allison’s audience. If they had her go more towards Rock I thnk she would likely appeal to an older demographic than if she goes towards Pop.

I think both Adam and Kris will be marketed towards an older audience but towards different parts of them. I think Kris could do really well on Top 40/HAC and I think Adam can do well on Top 40 and whatever type of genre it is that spins dance/techno.

That is so harsh what VFTW is doing to Adam. I would compare Adam/swatiskas to any white idol associated with the KKK. How can anyone be that low and disgusting? Sounds to me they are bottom feeders. What is worse is that so many people are believing it.

I don’t know about so many people ‘believing it’ but I do think the VFTWers love to bait over invested fans by saying outrageous stuff and then sitting back and watching the ensuing outrage. My advice is to ignore it – fanning the flames is just what they want. I don’t understand why fans of AI go there at all. Vote for the Worst – the title sums up what they are all about. Negativity is what fuels them.

I haven’t been on there, but the person who runs VFTW is a Kris lover and Adam hater. He is trying to bring down Adam. That must be working because Adam’s percentage sales went down while Kris’s went up.

I don’t know if we’re talking about the same thing, but this link shows that Adam is at 86%, Kris at 11%, and Allison at 3%:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Idol-Contestants-2009/meters/A1F673D557FYUO/ref=pd_zg_lm_lp_pl

I know that yesterday, (and maybe a bit before that as well), the numbers were: Adam 87%, Kris 11%, and Allison 2%. So, what happened, as far as I can see, (let me get my glasses on), is that Allison’s single got heard, and her percentage went up slightly, causing Adam’s to go down slightly. I don’t think that VFTW had anything to do with it.

Of course, we don’t know what the total is, so it’s hard to know what that 1% change is for either of them. It’s possible that some people canceled their preorders, but more likely, it’s just that more people preordered Allison’s album.

I’d love to hear David sing TOML, but it wouldn’t fit with his show, or his band, it just wouldn’t fit. He never chose to record it, he had to record it, and it’s apparently not something he wants to be reminded of. He took that song and turned lemon into lemonade, with his voice he made it something special, however he has moved on. I do love the song though and what he did with it. He has a very special voice and style.

Maybe someday when he’s old and gray he will sing it on some variety show just for old times’ sake. : )

People TV
http://www.people.com/people/package/video/0,,20301963_20310245,00.html

David Archuleta and Rick Springfield talking about heartthrobs and his ‘hot’ mom… lol lol

lol eta: fixed the typo ROFL no hitting going on.. lol

Aaron Spears of the MFB has done a drum DVD. Here’s a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID1jVOPNeZc&feature=player_embedded

I think VFTW will have zero to nil impact on Adam’s sales. Let them beat their wings, nobody cares, nobody’s listening. They’re a tiny little corner of the internet, negative malcontents, mean-spirited haters who would rather destroy than create anything of value.

Whew that sounded pretty dramatic. In other words, ignore them, they’re not important.

ozarka, thank you for the article on Chikezie. Nice to read what he’s up to.

Totally speculative, but I think that LO appeals mostly to heterosexual men between the ages of 30 and 50 who dislike AI and everything it stands for. Not exactly this blog’s key demographic.

I fit that demo pretty well (except I like AI).

And I enjoy Light On quite a bit so you may be on to something.

Slezak just tweeted that he accidentally hung up on Kris. More Kris news/posts coming from EW, I guess.

VFTW is not exactly idol’s best friend, but unless they manipulated the images and included the swastikas there (which they haven’t) they’re just doing what many Adam fans would do if Danny had been the one wearing that jacket. And when I say Adam fans I also mean fans of other fanbases. And when I say Danny, it could also be Michael, or Scott, or even Kris. Swastikas have a certain connotation in our world, so if you’re going to wear something with Swastikas get ready for something. I don’t think the “but he’s jewish” makes it any different.

I’d like to know Kirsten’s opinion about that, but I don’t think even Kirsten would say that was the reason went platinum.

And I was being so good. I had to LOL at Spenser’s comment because I think there were some uber fans that were just waiting until LO went platinum to come over and try to rub my nose in it. I really hit a chord with that metaphor last year.

I think it was just steady sales that eventually drove it to platinum. It had a good opening week and a good iTunes-gift-card week which propelled it high enough that steady sales on the back of fairly decent airplay would get it to platinum. I agree that psycho bulk-buyers cannot get you to number one on iTunes or keep you selling significant numbers for weeks on end. It will help pad numbers somewhat, but I think there are far fewer psychos out there than the psychos believe. Thank goodness.

And because the buying season is about to start, let me repeat my mantra:

Just say “No” to bulk buying.

Don’t encourage it and don’t let the psycho-competitives guilt others into doing it. It’s a waste of money and gives people something to mock (and MJ will ban you if you try to do it here). And if you give a CD to all your friends, they’ll think you joined a cult.

Now, where did I put that fireant spray?

But that first release is created under very special circumstances unique to the Idol system.

I don’t think it’s really that different from any other manufactured “star” — like a Mickey Mouse clubber or a some kid in a movie recording a CD or a manufactured band like the Monkees or N-Synch. That’s all idol wannabees are (in most cases) — TV reality show contenstants recording an album. They have no clue what they are doing, no musical identity, no control of their destiny, and therefore, their albums almost always stink.

That does not mean that an individual Idol can’t produce a creative album. I mean, half of the great albums in the history of rock were recorded in three or four days. The fact that most Idols are not capable of doing that has absolutely no bearing on whether another Idol is or is not capable of exerting some musical creativity.

For example, I don’t think that 19R interfered with Taylor Hicks’ album. It didn’t sell, but it’s not a hot mess of autotuned teen pop. It has a good producer, a good studio band, and a reasonably representative cross section of styles. Nobody would listen to it and think it was Ncikelback or Millie Cyrus. They didn’t grab somebody else track and dub in the vocals.

I expect Lambert’s album to be very pop-oriented, not because he is getting rolled by 19R, but because that’s what he wants his album to be.

That is so harsh what VFTW is doing to Adam. … How can anyone be that low and disgusting? Sounds to me they are bottom feeders. What is worse is that so many people are believing it.

That site has completely lost whatever novelty or originality it once had. It’s an empty warehouse with a few guys shuffling around in the darkened space. The only people going there now are the pissed off Adam fans. Trust me, no one’s believing anything because no one’s listening.

I am curious because I believe that David Cook is a success but apparently some on this site continue to believe he is not. And that somehow his fans from Idol are propping him up. What exactly does he have to do to be successful? What is it that he needs to accomplish in order to be successful in your eyes? Jordan is considered more of a success than David? Have you seen her latest album sales? Platinum album, platinum singles, radio hits x 3, sold out concerts. I am clearly not getting what it is about David’s success that is lacking.

Well said 123abc456. I have wondered the same thing. I think that what might be happening here is that Cook has spent the last calendar year out of the limelight: working his ass off on his endless, near sold-out tour of small-town America. I suspect that if he had remained in LA, started dating vapid starlets, courting the paps, and performing in occasional but high profile gigs, he admittedly might have permeated popular culture more significantly. Perhaps this was a choice on his part. Cook might think that achieving Gaga’s and Perry’s levels of album sales, while avoiding their level of notoriety, makes him a success on his own terms.

Slezak just tweeted that he accidentally hung up on [one of this year's Idols]. More [idol] news/posts coming from EW, I guess.

Either that or maybe just phone sex.

RCA is doing exactly what RCA always does with AIers. They aren’t as big as Jive is on releasing singles early. Most AIers on RCA have had singles released 2 weeks to 1 month prior to the cd release, usually closer to that 2 week mark

I know but if you look at the current situation just about everyone who is scheduled to release around Adam has something out. That’s bound to make people wonder “Huh? Where’s mine?”.

I don’t believe these articles were posted yet:

There also seems to be what looks a swastika…

Adam Lambert’s Swastika Adorned Jacket Sells On eBay

I wonder if Adam’s first video of the day will address this.

What exactly does he have to do to be successful?

Idol is and probably will always be a numbers game. Success to many is solely dependent on album sales….and not on the number but how those sales are in relation to a previous idols. And very few people look at the numbers in context…..Daughtry took 3 years to hit 4 million in sales….some Artists do that in less than a year. Some Artists hit the top 10 in sales with their singles (Sparks, Jordin) for the year but because her album isn’t off the charts she is a failure.

Carrie sells in a market where the ratio between singers and buyers favors the singer. Cook competes in the market where singers almost outnumber buyers (a little exaggerated, but you get the point). Daughtry has reasonable tour success and usually is the opening act, but Cook sales 93% of his solo tour tickets…and yet Cook isn’t comparable to Daughtry. J Hud won an oscar but she doesn’t sell like Kelly so she doesn’t measure up.

Everyone equates success differently…so if a fan thinks their Idol is “up to snuff” and the Idol is still in the business then they are a success.
Only after AI has been gone from the scene for 20 years will we really be able to see who benefitted most from the franchise and who the best ever was. But most of us will be long gone by then and everyone else won’t give a damn….

I’m not sure if this has been posted yet’ ¦from adamofficial’ ¦

‘Stay Tuned for ‘Question of the Day’  Videos with Adam!
OCTOBER 6, 2009, 2:44 pm

As if there weren’t already enough reasons to love Adam, we’ve just brought you more! To tide all of you ravenous Glamberts over until his album is released, we’ll be featuring Adam’s response to a new question we pitch him every day in our upcoming ‘Question of the Day’  video series! These daily videos will premiere tomorrow, so stay tuned!’ 

That’s cute and I can’t wait to hear what Adam’s favorite color is but this kind of promotion doesn’t really help him. The Glamberts are already buying his CD.

People TV
http://www.people.com/people/package/video/0,,20301963_20310245,00.html

David Archuleta and Rick Springfield talking about heartthrobs and his ‘hot’ mom’ ¦ lol lol

ROFL. That was so funny!

I would not include Jordin in that. I think she has had much mainstream success with her singles. People know who she is, I just don’t think a lot of people are passionate about her.

I would. Jordin has hit singles, but her singles are the ones that the masses will recognize without knowing her name or face. Half of them won’t even know that Battlefield, No Air, Tattoo, and One Step at a Time are all by the same singer. That is, if they even remember Tattoo or One Step at a Time. Those hits have faded from most peoples’ memories already. She’s largely nameless/faceless to the masses at the moment. Kelly and Carrie? Not so much.

Adam has an amazing voice and will do great with at least average-above average material. In this sense, I think the hype, although risky, may pay up.

I’m not saying DC has a more of less amazing voice than Adam, because that’s subjective, and we can all agree that technically, Adam can do ridiculous things with his voice that few people can, but IMO, DC sounds amazing vocally on LO… but the song itself? Not good enough. It was just never gonna be a huge radio hit cuz of the song, despite DC’s excellent vocals on it.

That’s cute and I can’t wait to hear what Adam’s favorite color is but this kind of promotion doesn’t really help him. The Glamberts are already buying his CD.

Who said the videos are to help him? They are aimed to draw back the ‘ravenous Glamberts’ from going crazy or from wasting time on whatever trash from a dark corner in the internet.

123abc456
October 6, 2009 at 3:26 pm

I am curious because I believe that David Cook is a success but apparently some on this site continue to believe he is not. And that somehow his fans from Idol are propping him up. What exactly does he have to do to be successful? What is it that he needs to accomplish in order to be successful in your eyes? Jordan is considered more of a success than David? Have you seen her latest album sales? Platinum album, platinum singles, radio hits x 3, sold out concerts. I am clearly not getting what it is about David’s success that is lacking.

I’m guessing here, but I think it’s all due to the lack of having a Top 40 hit. From what I see, that’s how songs and artists are measured around here. I’m actually fine with it, however. I’d be delighted if he stayed just as famous and successful as he is now. I honestly don’t think he’d be disappointed either if his level of fame and fortune were to never skyrocket. He’s doing exactly what he’s always done but at a much more comfortable level. He’s touring and working on a new record. Life is good.

So if you put him on the list of idol sales, you would say.. eh, its okay, not great. Hit song but little else. But if you put him up against say, Jessie McCartney or someone like that.. recent young pop acts that appeal heavily to teens.. he looks not bad at all.

I would not call Archie unsuccessful. He’s doing okay. But, he’s still got a long way to go to really make a name for himself in the business. He’s got plenty of time to do it though.

I STILL have an unopened Taylor CD buried in a dresser drawer.

Ha! I opened it, and listened to it (a lot). So, I’m a far bigger loser than you.

Even if we find the next Shania, she probably won’t hit 20 mil.

Well, and it’s not like Shania sold all 20 million of those albums in a year either. I don’t know how long it actually took, but it wasn’t certified at that number until 9 years after it was released. That sucker had some serious legs. It’s biggest sales week was well into it’s second year of release (I guess maybe when it moved from a country hit to a huge cross-over album?).

And ya know what, I bet you could walk into Target today and still buy a copy of Come on Over. There are plenty of decade old releases still on the shelves, and people are still buying them. The Billboard 200 doesn’t tell the whole story. But, do I think you’ll be able to walk into Target and buy a copy of Taylor’s or Cook’s post AI cd 10 years from now? No I don’t. And, that’s not because I think we’ll probably be buying music on something other than CD’s, or because Target might get gobbled up by some other retailer. It’s because I don’t think those compilations of mediocre music have any legs at all. And certainly not decade long ones.

The most amazing thing to me about Michael Jackson’s death wasn’t necessarily how much music he sold in the weeks after, but learning that up until his death people were still walking into a store and buying a Thriller CD 30 years later.

Oceana,

I think VFTW will have zero to nil impact on Adam’s sales. Let them beat their wings, nobody cares, nobody’s listening. They’re a tiny little corner of the internet, negative malcontents, mean-spirited haters who would rather destroy than create anything of value.

Whew that sounded pretty dramatic. In other words, ignore them, they’re not important.

Beautifully put.

Mila, you have an excellent point.

Wow, there’s so much to agree with here.

Going to the Kradison and their identity as artists, I think the problem is not so much as their identity as who they are (though that is a huge factor), but their ability to stand their ground in the context of management and the industry in general.

19/RCA/Jive are big entities with people who have been doing this for a long time (and like most of corporate business, they take the “tried and true” guarantee instead of the risk that might prove revolutionary). It’s letting the accounting and marketing people have domain over creative. In a just world, it should never, ever be done, but in the real world it’s done constantly.

So here the new talent comes in and they are in a room full of professionals who have been in business longer than these kids have been alive ‘“ framed records of every alloy adorn the walls and Grammys and every other industry award clutter the shelves ‘“ and when they tell the artist what is going to work commercially, said new artist is going to listen. Maybe this is one of the reasons they make the cut off at 28, because by that time the artists have some life and industry experience and may not be so quick to defer to the “experts.”

I know Adam has said he is not owned and I think he has an advantage in this perspective. He has experience, contacts and has been around the Hollywood scene for seven years. He also has had to fight for his art and will surely make concessions and choose his battles carefully.

Maybe the suits are right. The poppified dreck probably does sell with more mass-appeal than a completely revolutionary sound. They’re all walking a tightrope and it remains to be seen how it all shakes down.

a jewish nazi

This is an oxymoron. IMHO

The most amazing thing to me about Michael Jackson’s death wasn’t necessarily how much music he sold in the weeks after, but learning that up until his death people were still walking into a store and buying a Thriller CD 30 years later.

That’s because everybody was updating from albums, then eight tracks, then cassettes. then CD’s, and now digital music. I’m convinced that’s how the music business makes money, by phasing out the current way you are listening to music so that you have to rebuy all your old music, unless you can figure out another way of transferring your collection, while maintaining quality.

VFTW does not discriminate, I think that they are negative about all the Idols not just Adam. I don’t believe they like anybody.

Yep. And they think they are funny. Only they aren’t. They are poseurs.

very positive review from a Parent on allison’s single:

http://parentingteens.about.com/b/2009/10/06/allison-iraheta-unveils-first-single.htm

jambajim Mood: jealous. Slezak is totally getting a Kris Allen album exclusive right now, isn’t he? Why does Idol hate MTV so much? Le sigh.

Jim tweet: Slezak getting a Kris album exclusive.

The person who runs VTTW is NOT a Kris supporter. As far as I can tell, that site is designed to make fun of the show and the contestants, not support any of them.

But who in their right mind would seriously believe that Adam, who is Jewish, would wear a jacket with a Nazi symbol on it? Seriously, the whole idea boggles my mind.

I am clearly not getting what it is about David’s success that is lacking.

I’m not saying DC is not at all successful. I repeat: he is by some measures, not by some others. There are many measures of success, and I’m happy he’s achieved what he has. Just keepin it real. He hasn’t lit the world on fire just yet, though I have hopes he will in the future .

I would not call Archie unsuccessful. He’s doing okay. But, he’s still got a long way to go to really make a name for himself in the business. He’s got plenty of time to do it though.

We agree. I would say he’s doing well more so than okay, but he has a way to go.

I would. Jordin has hit singles, but her singles are the ones that the masses will recognize without knowing her name or face. Half of them won’t even know that Battlefield, No Air, Tattoo, and One Step at a Time are all by the same singer. That is, if they even remember Tattoo or One Step at a Time. Those hits have faded from most peoples’ memories already. She’s largely nameless/faceless to the masses at the moment. Kelly and Carrie? Not so much.

Okay. Fair enough. I give her a bit more credit that you in that I think people do know who she is if she pops up on their screen, but I will concede that Kelly and Carrie have made a much bigger impression on people than Jordin has.

I think that what might be happening here is that Cook has spent the last calendar year out of the limelight: working his ass off on his endless, near sold-out tour of small-town America. I suspect that if he had remained in LA, started dating vapid starlets, courting the paps, and performing in occasional but high profile gigs, he admittedly might have permeated popular culture more significantly.

Nope. he didn’t have a pop hit, so he has less visibility. I don’t think its all about dating starlets. But I love me some Cookie anyway.

I’ve been to two shows of David Cook’s this summer. Both were sold out. He’s sold over a million in album sales and has had 3 singles do quite well. Gosh, if he’s not successful, then who is?!

suebrody
October 6, 2009 at 4:02 pm
VFTW does not discriminate, I think that they are negative about all the Idols not just Adam. I don’t believe they like anybody.

Yep. And they think they are funny. Only they aren’t. They are poseurs.

Agreed. I can’t read them. I just can’t put time and energy into reading such negativity. For every remotely funny remark, there were far too many hateful and angry others. I personally don’t elect to take up hobbies of things I dislike. Not sure I get why other people do. *shrug*

PLEASE let Slezak get some real info on what Kris was working on over in London, how many songs Kris has written/co-written will likely end up on the album, if he has been able to play guitar and/or piano on the tracks, is the album mostly ballads, mostly upbeat songs, a mixture, etc. etc.

BTW, I haven’t heard anyone mention (but I just got back from a doctor’s appointment) the new iTunes “library” edition, one they did for Muse and Pearl Jam and maybe for Adam.

It includes:
One or two videos (possibly live)
Credits (like you get with an album or CD, a booklet with lyrics, etc.)
Background funky screensavers
At least one extra song

I don’t think it differs much from a deluxe album (where you have a choice which version you want, e.g., with Daughtry and Kelly). However, it is supposed to give you an album *feel*, which is probably b/c they know ppl miss that. I gave away my record player and albums a long time when tapes (LOL) came into play and CDs as well. Too bad. The sound quality was so much better, and it was nice to have something physical to handle. But I know download nearly everything from iTunes, b/c it is more convenient.

As far as Adam, I think he will put out a good, not great, album, and yes, as long as he can tour behind it and get to put out another one, that’s all we can realistically ask for. What is of concern is how much bloody hype this album has received. Is it as good as “all that”? Despite Adam’s, sizable talent, I highly doubt it. I wish the hype would just stop. I suspect we will get a leak this week or next (dunno about TFM) and the track either 10/12 or probably 10/19. I am not sure whether or not they have decided on the track–I bet they have–but they are keeping this close to the check, and I guess that’s not a surprise. I just hope that it’s at least decent, b/c seriously, the buzz has been outrageous for someone who has not put out a single post-Idol.

As far as the bulk buying thing goes, maybe I’m exagerating when I say ‘half’ , but it’s surely more than 10% at least in some cases. And, I’ll say this, even though I know it will bring on the fireants LOL’ ¦.. I don’t know anyone in real life who purchased Light On as a single. I don’t know anyone who’s ever even mentioned liking it. And while many of those sales may have been to people outside the bubble for one reason or another, I believe the only reason that single went platinum was because a pocketful of uber fantards kept buying it again every week just to prove to Kirsten that it wasn’t a boat anchor.

This theory gets mentioned a lot for all the idols, but in reality it seems pretty unlikely to me. To sell 500,000 copies over 52 weeks, you’d need 9,615 “uberfans” staying in the game for an entire year. To sell 100,000 copies you’d only need 1,923 I guess, but again they’d have to be willing to pony up week in and week out for 52 weeks. No doubt there are dedicated fans out there buying multiple copies of their favorites’ singles and albums, but mathematically speaking it’s pretty hard to construct a reasonable scenario that results in bulk buying making a statistically significant difference in sales. *puts away calculator, marches off to the anthill*

VFTW does not discriminate, I think that they are negative about all the Idols not just Adam. I don’t believe they like anybody.

True. Thats the whole point of their website. One should expect negatively when embarking there.

This is an oxymoron. IMHO

Like a born-again Jew.

ETA: Cantiello has tweeted about 10 times today. He must be really bored.

Is Adam and anti-semite? Of course not. Was he dumb for wearing that jacket and not expecting at some point people would notice and call him on it? Yep. He’s opened himself up to the criticism, regardless of whether it is over the top or not.

That assumes he even know they were there were there and was wearing them on purpose and I don’t assume either thing. Some people still don’t see them when they look at them, see other things. Also you have to really look to see them and not all of us would be checking our random ass doodles on our Bedazzled Vests of Ugliness for Nazi symbols somehow hidden in among all the other hashmarks and other pen markings.

So what’s the point? Taylor, for instance, didn’t even come close to the sales of Kelly and Carrie. Jordin either. Cook has come a little closer (to Kelly’s first year sales, perhaps). But what’s the point?

Not much of one. Just making conversation.

J Hud won an oscar but she doesn’t sell like Kelly so she doesn’t measure up.

I think J Hud is extremely successful. She’s got an Oscar, grammy, and she’s in demand in the industry.

The numbers to me, only indicate whether someone is a successful recording artist. Not whether or not they’re a “success” in general. For instance, Kimberly Caldwell is a fairly successful TV personality. She’s been consistently employed as a host for years. That’s a kind of success also.

Some AI alums make a living on tours and appearances for years without many people knowing anything about it. That’s another kind of success. I’m sure everyone defines it differently, but I just want to clarify that previously, I was only speaking of the “recording artist” kind of success when I referenced the numbers.

That’s obviously not all there is to this entertainment game. I guess whether people consider their favorite a success depends on what kind of success they want him/her to be.

I’m not saying I believe Adam purposefully wore a jacket with a swastika on it. But it’s there. It’s there for one of several reasons. No one noticed it; someone thought they were drawing something else; Someone “doodled” something and didn’t make the connection; or Adam knew it was there and wanted to stir up controversy. It’s not unheard of for OTT musicians to want to get people talking (see, O’Conner, Sinead; or Madonna). I personally won’t vilify VFTW for posting something someone noticed. It’s not like they made it up; it’s there.

From tinawina:

Yeah, I agree too. He has hit with a subset of the music audience, not on the mainstream. I think that is accurate.

From suenigma:

. . .Cook has spent the last calendar year out of the limelight: working his ass off on his endless, near sold-out tour of small-town America. I suspect that if he had remained in LA, started dating vapid starlets, courting the paps, and performing in occasional but high profile gigs, he admittedly might have permeated popular culture more significantly.

I’ve actually grown to like that Cook hasn’t hit the mainstream. I think it’s kind of cool, even- it gives him the status of music’s “best-kept secret,” or “under the radar,” something like that.

I would classify David Archuleta, the other season 7 Idols (Brooke, etc..), Elliott Yamin and Melinda Doolittle in this category along with Cook. It would be great if any of them had a huge top 40 hit, but even if their careers never reached that level, as long as they continued to create decent music I’d be quite happy.

I think Jordin and David Cook are probably at the same level of success which is kind of weird because he’s done way better selling albums. Her big Top 40 hits give her that extra visibility that he just hasn’t had.
Plus she’s probably played to thousands more people as an opening act for the Jonas Bros. and Britney Spears than he has touring small/middle sized venues. But she doesn’t seem to have the large devoted fanbase that he does.

David Cook still needs that massive Top 40 hit to break out as a bigger star.

The most amazing thing to me about Michael Jackson’s death wasn’t necessarily how much music he sold in the weeks after, but learning that up until his death people were still walking into a store and buying a Thriller CD 30 years later.

Very true. Its amazing that MJ and the Beatles are almost saving the music industry sales this year on music released decades ago. We just don’t have artists like that anymore.

Jordin has had a lot of radio and MTV exposure in the UK since Tattoo, and Battlefied is still in the top 40. To me she’s just another pop starlet, but at least she’s managed to break into the UK market; not sure how well she’s done within the rest of Europe.
Her and Kelly C are the only 2 Idols to break away out of the AI bubble in the UK. I hope Adam can do well here too.

I didn’t even know Kelly was the AI S1 winner when I first heard her a few years back. I just liked what I heard on the radio/TV and bought her albums.
Had I not watched Jordin win S6, I wouldn’t have been any the wiser about her either, I’m sure.

As S8 is the only one I’ve fully watched, and been a fan of Adam all the way, I’m intrigued to see how well he does here.

TinaWina: Nope. he didn’t have a pop hit, so he has less visibility. I don’t think its all about dating starlets. But I love me some Cookie anyway.

Ah yes, but does visibility beget pop hits or do pop hits beget visibility? Or a combination thereof? Just watch, after the tour Cook will be doing the album thing in LA, will consequently be more out and about, and his celebrity profile and perceived success will increase.

or Adam knew it was there and wanted to stir up controversy.

Adam wants to steer clear of anything political. That is why he wouldn’t even take a picture for the NoH8 campaign.

Edit: I hope the articles I posted above from those “low-level” publications do not hit mainstream. Then Adam will certainly have to address the issue.

Sma11ie:

I’m not saying DC has a more of less amazing voice than Adam, because that’s subjective, and we can all agree that technically, Adam can do ridiculous things with his voice that few people can, but IMO, DC sounds amazing vocally on LO’ ¦ but the song itself? Not good enough. It was just never gonna be a huge radio hit cuz of the song, despite DC’s excellent vocals on it.

I was not thinking about cook… I love him, and I love Light On (I confess!). Look what he did with TOML. But Adam is better technically (vocally), and if I were a songwriter I woul;d be delighted to have him singing my song. This, with the buzz, could help in getting good material.

I like cook’s cd, but the songs are kind of average. I hated the fact that all the songs were produced by Cavallo – for me, it looks like one never ending song if I am not paying attention, the sound all too similar. Like all the timbaland songs look the same. I like the fact that adam is working with several producers.

People TV
http://www.people.com/people/package/video/0,,20301963_20310245,00.html

David Archuleta and Rick Springfield talking about heartthrobs and his ‘hot’ mom’ ¦ lol lol

According to Snarky Archies, that photoshoot “is for People‘s 35th Anniversary issue. They are using Rick and David to compare then and now teen idols. Pretty stinking awesome that they picked David out of all the young teen idols nowadays. Can’t wait to see the spread! AWESOMEAGE.”

I’m convinced that’s how the music business makes money, by phasing out the current way you are listening to music so that you have to rebuy all your old music, unless you can figure out another way of transferring your collection, while maintaining quality.

Just like how Bill Gates makes each version of Microsoft Office significantly larger so I have to go buy a new effin laptop LOL. It’s how an industry survives.

And obviously, the music industry has been figuring out how to do it for a very long time. I’m not convinced their out of ideas. That’s why I don’t believe the concept of an “album” of compiled music from a particular artist is dead. I’m no more convinced that digital media will kill off the “album” (cd, whatever) for good, than I was that Video was going to kill the Radio star.

The fact of the matter is that Taylor, Jordin and Cook have all failed to permeate the pop culture in the same manner that Kelly and Carrie have. And, I say that being a fairly big Taylor fan.
So what’s the point? Taylor, for instance, didn’t even come close to the sales of Kelly and Carrie. Jordin either. Cook has come a little closer (to Kelly’s first year sales, perhaps). But what’s the point?

I do think comparison of this sort is a bit silly. No one knew if Kelly Clarkson would be just a flash in the fan after her first album and then disappeared from sight. It turns out that she is in fact quite successful. We won’t know what will happen with David Cook, only time can tell. Jordin’s time may be running out, her second album having flopped massively, but still, I’d wait a year or two before passing judgement on that. The only person in that trio you can say with some certainty failing to permeate pop culture is Taylor Hicks, him being the least successful of all the Idol winners.

Like a born-again Jew.

Bob Dylan was one. I think there were in fact instances of Jewish Nazi (they hid their Jewish origin of course). And the present Iranian president who made vitriolic speeches attacking Israel turned out to have Jewish origin.

PLEASE let Slezak get some real info on what Kris was working on over in London, how many songs Kris has written/co-written will likely end up on the album, if he has been able to play guitar and/or piano on the tracks, is the album mostly ballads, mostly upbeat songs, a mixture, etc. etc.

I’m pretty sure that Kris’s next song will be co-written by him, but will he be playing instruments on it? I think I remember reading here that David Cook didn’t do the instrumention on his record, but Kris sounds like he will…maybe?

If RCA had put Cook as the opening act on a larger tour his visibility would have increased. His tour hits mostly smaller markets and just doesn’t get the splashy publicity of the huge arena tours that Jordin has benefited from. Not that it has helped her sell albums. She still struggles in that area. But as long as she can keep getting Top 40 hits I think Jive will support her.

Mila
October 6, 2009 at 4:19 pm

I was not thinking about cook’ ¦ I love him, and I love Light On (I confess!). Look what he did with TOML. But Adam is better technically (vocally), and if I were a songwriter I woul;d be delighted to have him singing my song. This, with the buzz, could help in getting good material.

I like cook’s cd, but the songs are kind of average. I hated the fact that all the songs were produced by Cavallo ‘“ for me, it looks like one never ending song if I am not paying attention, the sound all too similar. Like all the timbaland songs look the same. I like the fact that adam is working with several producers.

I find this interesting because I never look for technically superior in an artist. I look for soul. To me David Cook has that in spades over Adam Lambert. It’s all an opinion, I know, but ours are polar. I also look for a cohesive album, one where the songs make sense individually and as a whole. I truly hate albums that are a mishmash of different sounds and producers. But then I have always been and will always be an album person. I don’t listen to the radio at all.

I think that what might be happening here is that Cook has spent the last calendar year out of the limelight: working his ass off on his endless, near sold-out tour of small-town America. I suspect that if he had remained in LA, started dating vapid starlets, courting the paps, and performing in occasional but high profile gigs, he admittedly might have permeated popular culture more significantly.

Nah, it’s not that. He hasn’t been invisible. He’s appeared on Idol a few times, and on entertainment shows, and on VH-1 countdown. He’s been on The Daily Soup, in lots of newspaper articles, and he’s a regular topic at MJ’s blog, read by millions

And he’s sold a lot of records, and been in the top 10 at HAC most of the year, and AC as well.

No, as someone else said, the reason he hasn’t shot to superstardom yet is because he hasn’t had a top 40 hit. That is how you reach the most people. Personally, I think it’s because RCA hasn’t put out his best songs as singles. When he starts having top 40 hits, he will become a bigger star. Meanwhile, he’s doing quite well. Right now I’m frustrated and close to grieving that there might not be a 3rd single put out. (I’ll celebrate loudly if there is.) I think the label is crazy if they don’t put out one of the songs he wrote like Declaration, Heroes, or Lie. But don’t get me started.

Nobody claims that he’s a mega-star. But he’s definitely not Taylor Hicks either. Did Taylor have hits on AC and HAC consistently for a year? I’m a Taylor fan but David Cook has definitely done better his first year than Taylor did his, sales and radio-wise.

Personally I don’t care how many singles LO sold. I want a new single, one that David wrote. RCA drives me crazy sometimes.

Adam is better technically (vocally), and if I were a songwriter I woul;d be delighted to have him singing my song. This, with the buzz, could help in getting good material.

That’s a fair prediction, that Adam would be getting great songs due to the good buzz about his vocals, but that’s a different point from the one I was responding to. The initial comment was that Adam’s vocals would elevate even the worst dreck and make it a hit. IMO, DC’s fantastic vocals do elevate LO, but not enough to make it a hit. IMO, these AI alum are all really good vocalists in their own right, but at the end of the day, it’s always about the material. The song itself has to be decent, or even Adam’s voice can’t save it. That’s all I’m saying.

ozarka
October 6, 2009 at 4:21 pm
People TV
http://www.people.com/people/package/video/0,,20301963_20310245,00.html

David Archuleta and Rick Springfield talking about heartthrobs and his ‘hot’ mom’ ¦ lol lol’

That was hilarious!
Springfield looking good!

That was so funny when Rick say “you’re mom’s pretty hot – was that out of line?” and David laughs and says it’s kind of awkward”

LOL

I just wanted to agree with a hwc post above: Adam (and Kris) will write their own stories, despite what happened in the last seasons. The fact that the album is rushed or made by 19 does not equal the same result all the time, there are several factors varying each year (voice, interest from press and industry, quality of the material, perspectives, personality, type of music the singer wants to pursue and type of current radio music, etc). If the stars align, one can really burst the bubble like never before, why not? Not saying adam is going to be elvis, but I dont agree at all in locking them in a box based on what happened in the last years.

Eight years is definitely not a large enough sample to allow us to foresee the future. Maybe in 30 years we can try again. I am sure when Taylor won people tried to guess the next steps based on the former idols, and look how well it worked.

I’ve been to two shows of David Cook’s this summer. Both were sold out. He’s sold over a million in album sales and has had 3 singles do quite well. Gosh, if he’s not successful, then who is?!

Only artists who have a huge Top 40 hit on the radio.

People TV
http://www.people.com/people/package/video/0,,20301963_20310245,00.html

David Archuleta and Rick Springfield talking about heartthrobs and his ‘hot’ mom’ ¦ lol lol’

That was really cute! Rick still look great. I loved the matching jackets.

But she doesn’t seem to have the large devoted fanbase that he does.

I have a theory about that (not that anyone enjoys my theories ). I actually think that Jordin is somewhat unlikable. She lacks charisma, her personality isn’t that great, and her music isn’t good enough to overcome those factors. I could be wrong though. That might just be why I don’t like her LOL.

No one knows if Kelly Clarkson would be just a flash in the fan after her first album and then disappeared from sight. It turns out that she is quite successful.

But we do actually know that, because she didn’t disappear and she wasn’t a flash in the pan.

We won’t know what will happen with David Cook, only time can tell. Jordin’s time may be running out, her second album having flopped massively, but still, I’d wait a year or two before judgement on that.

Indeed David Cook has an opportunity to reach a higher level of recording success with his second CD. That’s entirely possible. But, Jordin’s on her second CD. She’s got a radio hit and not much else. Will she even get a third? I don’t agree with the theory that Jordin is more successful than Taylor either. She’s got a couple of radio hits, and he doesn’t. But, he filled 2,500 seat venues by himself. She could never do that. And only one of those things actually brings in revenue.

Sma11ie

IMO, these AI alum are all really good vocalists in their own right, but at the end of the day, it’s always about the material. The song itself has to be decent, or even Adam’s voice can’t save it. That’s all I’m saying.

I agree, the material has to be good for adam too (but I dont agree that all the AI alums are really good vocalists)

If RCA had put Cook as the opening act on a larger tour his visibility would have increased. His tour hits mostly smaller markets and just doesn’t get the splashy publicity of the huge arena tours that Jordin has benefited from.

I think the plan has been for David and the band to have time to gel together, and to build a following from the ground up, an organic grass-roots type of development. There’s a lot to be said for that, and better he didn’t open for bigger audiences before the band was ready as a cohesive unit. He wasn’t just promoting singles, like Jordin was.

It’s been pretty cool that David has been the headliner and that other up-and-coming bands have opened for him, like the Script, Green River Ordinance, and Ryan Star. I think he’s laying the groundwork and building a career on a solid foundation. His next cd will probably show the benefits of that time together as a band, growing and learning.

2/3 of what’s on top 40 I don’t listen to, and it’s not the be-all and end-all, but it does reach more people, and I believe that David’s best is yet ahead. Kelly’s big hit from her first cd was Miss Independent, not a very memorable song. It was her sophomore cd that made her big. I think David might do the same with his second cd. Hoping anyway. But respectable artists have thriving careers without ever being top-40 artists too.

Kelly has had to sell out a lot with her 4th cd, doing some pop stuff that is beneath her, imo. I hope that never happens with David Cook and I don’t think it will.

Alot of discussion regarding ‘success’ by the idols.
When you compare apples to oranges to mangos you really get all kinds of answers from all kinds of people.

I think alot of the criteria comes down to recognizability and ‘brand’. People ‘know’ who Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood are. People ‘know’ who Jennifer Hudson is.
I don’t think people ‘know’ who David Cook, David Archuleta, or Blake Lewis are.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – getting the buzz around your name/face in this industry is half (maybe more than half) the business.

If you are recognizable, people mention you in pop culture, your name is in crossword puzzles and your image is in cartoons. You are asked to host awards shows or are the special guest often enough your success is amplified and certified by the masses.

They each get their 15 minutes. Its what they and the label are doing to extend that spot light, just long enough, that suddenly the ‘formerly on american idol’ no longer follows their name every time they are indtroduced.

Luck, talent, and good single and a ‘hook’ help – it all translates into success whatever your definition is.

Most of these idols have said “I just want to make a living doing what I love” and I think the majority will get their wish. I wish that for anyone.

See, I don’t get that Cook isn’t well recognized. I really only know of him from radio because I didn’t follow S7. And he gets played here in NY a lot. A. Lot. I bought his album based on the three singles I heard from him over the course of the past year: TOML, LO and CBTM. Actually bought the album because of CBTM, contrary to many people – I love that song. And I love the album. Not sure I would see him in concert, but definitely enjoy the album. But then again, I love Daughtry too. No, won’t see him in concert but loved his first album and bought his second as soon as it came out.

Jordin may not sell a lot of albums, but again, she is very well known here in NY. I didn’t buy her first album, but bought Tattoo and No Air. However, I *did* buy her second album (on iTunes) off the strength of Battlefield. SOS is getting some airplay now, so she’s clearly a singles artist. My husband, who hates all things Idol knows her because she sang at the Super Bowl.

Carrie, Kelly – they are clearly in a league of their own. Daughtry is catching up. But I wouldn’t rule out Cook or Sparks quite yet. I’m very hopeful Adam can be added to that list of success stories.

So y’all finally made me click on the Rick Springfield/David Archuleta link. Classic Archuleta but in his defense, nobody anywhere wants to hear somebody say that their mom is hot. It’s akin to hearing your parents doing “it.” It’s wrong…all wrong (this from a 53 year old lol)

I think Jordin and Taylor are successful in different ways. Taylor’s latest cd is darn good. I hope he’s had somewhat decent sales. I think he’s happy doing what he loves to do, and making a living at it. Everyone doesn’t have to be a superstar. Someone has to be the lowest and he has that honor I guess, among the Idol winners, but Kris is yet to prove himself, and Jordin’s success might be like Ruben’s, all flash but not a lot of substance. Yet they are happy too, doing what they love and making a living. I think most of us would be happy to get paid for doing what we love. There’s too much expectation that every Idol has to be a superstar. No.

I agree re: Cook. Why RCA hasn’t put out a third single (Avalanche and Lie come to mind) is beyond me. Bar-ba-sol was barely dropped (not right for his demographic), and I believe Permanent was only featured as an iTunes download to fund treatment for brain cancer research. Kelly is on her third single already with Already Gone–what is RCA waiting for w/ David? (And LO and CBTM are, IMO, too similar; it would have better to go with a different song w/ a different vibe.)

Carrie, Kelly ‘“ they are clearly in a league of their own. Daughtry is catching up. But I wouldn’t rule out Cook or Sparks quite yet

I would agree with all of that, I think Jordin especially has had exposure beyond the AI bubble, though interesting that hasn’t been able to translate to album sales, still she does sell a lot of singles and gets out there. David Cook seems to be fairly well known to people who are AI fanatics like me, as well. Though I think acutally Jordin is more well known, even if not well respected/liked, by people I know than DC is.

This is funny:

http://ow.ly/t0b4

So they might not release anything else for DC after Come Back To Me? That would be really sad. Lie is maybe the best song on the CD, at least in my opinion, and it would be a crime to just leave it untouched; or Heroes. I love David’s record, but they sure screwed up when it came to releasing singles.

We just don’t have artists like that anymore.

Not only MJ and the Beatles……If you’re ever bored enough go look at album sales in the context of sales. Groups that were popular almost 50 years ago are selling more digital albums then many groups that are current today. And it isn’t the old timers buying…we are content to spin our vinyl or liten to our tapes..its the young kids who leave for college that want a copy of the stuff they grew up listening to that was the stuff their parents listened to that they learned to like because of their parents.

Good music goes on forever…bad music dies pretty rapidly. I am sure there aren’t a lot of kids beating down record store doors to get their hands on disco music, or MC Hammer, or Billy Ray Cyrus.

19/RCA/Jive are big entities with people who have been doing this for a long time (and like most of corporate business, they take the ‘tried and true’  guarantee instead of the risk that might prove revolutionary). It’s letting the accounting and marketing people have domain over creative. In a just world, it should never, ever be done, but in the real world it’s done constantly.

So here the new talent comes in and they are in a room full of professionals who have been in business longer than these kids have been alive ‘“ framed records of every alloy adorn the walls and Grammys and every other industry award clutter the shelves ‘“ and when they tell the artist what is going to work commercially, said new artist is going to listen.

Excellent post, Susan. Very true. Sad but true. We currently live in a corporate world. Which is anathema to art.

Good music goes on forever’ ¦bad music dies pretty rapidly.

True, Tess. There is still hope for the world. Artistry lives on in spite of corporate takeover.

Can anyone please tell me one thing? Did or did not Adam wear a jacket with a swaztika on it? And if he did, was it for a concert, or where was he?

If he did wear it, I don’t think there’s any positive way to spin it. It would make no sense. So I can’t believe he wore it unless you tell me he did and there are pictures.

I think part of the reason RCA hasn’t put out another single for Cook could be that they feel the costs would outweigh the return. It would be like Christmas and Halloween put together for me if they do. I’m just hoping for something a bit more rocking than Lie or Avalanche or Permanent. Though these songs may be my favorites on the album (his voice is to die for), I don’t want him pinned down to that kind of a song. I’m in the minority, but I happen to believe Heroes is a great song that would do more to broaden his appeal. Anyhow, I too will be sad if there’s no new single, but being that there’s still no word, I believe it’s a distinct possibility. I also think him being back in the studio makes people believe they won’t release a new single…what a shame.

So they might not release anything else for DC after Come Back To Me? That would be really sad. Lie is maybe the best song on the CD, at least in my opinion, and it would be a crime to just leave it untouched; or Heroes. I love David’s record, but they sure screwed up when it came to releasing single

I hope they do, but so far, nothing. David is working on his second album, so you wonder when RCA will get around to this. It’s like they release a single every six months, instead of 2-3. I don’t understand their reasoning. Slow burn? Really? With songs like LO and CBTM? They haven’t tanked but haven’t exactly burned up the charts, and there are so many better tracks on the album that his fans KNOW from his Tours and that others know from his album or would probably like (and might buy his album as a result). Puzzling.

ehhhhh I think dc’s not thaaaat succesful.(runs and hide from david’s fans) .if course that could b my age group and that I mostly listen to top 40(yes I know mass gagging occuring right now):) inknow by numbers blah blah blah david Is succesful but idk not jut me but for ppl I know if I say David cook most of the rime they don’t know who that is.or if they know they’re not familiar with many of his songs.I saw his album liked it but didn’t buy it.I have to absolutely FLOOOOOvE something b4 I buy the whole album.that’s just me.I consider jordin to b succesful.almost every1 I know has on their ipod’s or has heard a jordin song.and they usually know who she is.kinda off topic but I saw her on a got milk poster at my school today lol .from how they looked at it I think most ppl recognize her.I could go on and on but yes Iin terms of success I would rate jordin above David.I could b in the minority(esoecially here).I wasn’t a David fan last yr,tbh idol wasn’t *that* popular last yr,like season7.but sometimes idk I get into moods and I listen to Adam and (yes it’s still me saying this) I,turn it off.(I know shock lol) sometimes listening to Kris makes me feel better(which is why I’m so pissed 4 some reason I bought llwd but it not syncing to my iPod.I don’t want to buy it again or download an mp3D:)but I was listening to little lies(gma) and David sounded fantastic on it.totally amazing.

probably not coming back until like 7 ish.later

I find this interesting because I never look for technically superior in an artist. I look for soul. To me David Cook has that in spades over Adam Lambert. It’s all an opinion, I know, but ours are polar. I also look for a cohesive album, one where the songs make sense individually and as a whole. I truly hate albums that are a mishmash of different sounds and producers. But then I have always been and will always be an album person. I don’t listen to the radio at all.

I love david cook as much as you, so our opinions are not polar. But Adam’s voice is more technically skilled, and even cook would agree (he always said he was not the best vocalist of the bunch). If you appreciate a technically skilled voice or if you dont think adam conveys emotion is another issue, but adam’s voice is technically better and that is all I said. Cook is a very good vocalist too.

I like cohesive albuns too, but I dont like when all the songs sound the same. Muse has very different songs in their albuns, they dont sound the same, but they are all very bellamy (think of black holes and revelations, and invisible and knights of cydonia in the same album, for exemple). So something cohesive doesnt equal, for me, something that has the same sound all around. But I still live cook to death, love his voice and his personality. I even love light on, lol…

A tweetv from TV Guide:

Adam Lambert talks about the “dynamic music” on his new CD in this week’s #tvguidemagazine

oceana: Can anyone please tell me one thing? Did or did not Adam wear a jacket with a swaztika on it? And if he did, was it for a concert, or where was he?

If he did wear it, I don’t think there’s any positive way to spin it. It would make no sense. So I can’t believe he wore it unless you tell me he did and there are pictures.

The bedazzled denim vest that Adam wore in the Idol Live! finale has a drawing on the right shoulder. In the drawing there are two small swastikas that are smaller than a button. No one has any information of who draw it, and what it means to Adam.

Swastikas have many meanings — and have been used since Neolithic times. It is an imporant Hindu, Buddish, Jain and Native American symbol. But was also adopted by the Nazis.

Here is a photo: http://allieiswired.com/archives/2009/10/adam-lamberts-swastika-adorned-jacket-sells-on-ebay/

ETA: Perhaps the person who drew the image will explain what it is. I can’t figure out what the mushroom-headed thing is. Is it a person wearing a helmet? If it is a Hindu or Asian image that would explain it in a positive way.

ETA#2: The Nazi swastika is usually shown inside of a circle and almost always appear singly. These two mini-swastikas are not in circles and a clearly a pair.

Good music goes on forever’ ¦bad music dies pretty rapidly. I am sure there aren’t a lot of kids beating down record store doors to get their hands on disco music, or MC Hammer, or Billy Ray Cyrus.

Agreed. This is why my 8 & 5 year olds are huge Louie Armstrong fans But, I do have t admit that I do have U Can’t Touch This on my iPod hidden in between the LL Cool J and the Kool Moe Dee.

See, I don’t get that Cook isn’t well recognized. I really only know of him from radio because I didn’t follow S7.

I’m a huge Cook fan, and have a couple of good friend that I go to concerts with. They are not AI watchers and know nothing about the Davids, Kris, Adam or any of these guys that we basically obsess over. And when I say NOTHING, I mean blank looks.

Anyway, both of my friends had never heard of David Cook when I first told them I had tickets and wanted one of them to go with, but when I started ‘singing’ his two singles to them, they were both, ‘oh yeah, I know that song!’ One of them went with me to my one Cook concert and got converted (heh), and the other also wanted to go but I’d already promised the ticket to my other friend, so I told him I’d ask him the next time.

So it seems (from my limited and anecdotal experience) that Cook’s popularity outside the AI bubble is more about the songs (radio play) than it is about him being known as a personality or celebrity or anything like that. Two other friends of mine who heard I was going to the concert had very different reactions — one was ‘I can’t believe you’re going to an AI concert; that’s hysterical!’ and the other was ‘I like David Cook; wish you’d told me so I could go, etc.’ Those two were watchers or at least followers of AI, though one was obviously more of the ‘I watch it in an ironic, detached hipster cool kind of way’.

ETA:

But, I do have t admit that I do have U Can’t Touch This on my iPod hidden in between the LL Cool J and the Kool Moe Dee,

Hey! You have Hall of Shame iPod files too? Same here. Believe it or not, many years ago I used to keep my Kelly Clarkson songs there. Until I realized there was absolutely nothing shameful with loving me some Kelly — or any AI’er for that matter. (Note: This may had something to do with my teasing my hubby relentlessly about his Kelly love, and then my finding out that I too had a girl crush on Kelly.)

here is a story with close up views

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=525132&articleId=2398647&func=6&channel=Television&filterRead=false&filterHidden=true&filterUnhidden=false

I have no comment other than this is a rockstar jacket, nothing else

sorry I forgot the reason I posted erlier:)

um Kelly is performing close to where I live tonight (I think) I saw something g about her in the Washington post….

so my top 4 in terms of success would b

1. CARRIE(when I think of modernish country I think mega star Carrie underwood):….

2.KELLY(need I say more ?butshe’s not a MEGASTAAAR as in the first person I think o when I think of pop music…)
3.DAUGHTRY(ummmmmm yeah he’s a biggg deal)
4.JENNIFER(oscarrrrr i don’t follow her wasn’t a fan still am not don’t listen to her albums buuuuut she won am oscar…:/)

is that a spam link above luvadamlambert? I’m not clicking, LOL.

Disappointing news for Jason Castro fans.

Jason sent out an e-mail today saying his album has been delayed from November to “early next year.”

Quote:
Hey Y’all! Just a quick update from the road. I previously told you that the album would be out in November, but it’s going to be early next year instead. As much as I can’t wait to get my music out there, I really don’t want to rush anything either.

As you know, I’ve poured my life into this album for the past several months – writing over 50 songs, recording a bunch of them, and working to get each one just right. We’re really close, but are making some final tweaks so it can be exactly the album that I imagined it would be!

I’m so excited and think it’ll be worth the wait (it’s only a little longer anyway, right? . For those who already pre-ordered the album – a big THANK YOU! I’m sending you a bonus track that we just couldn’t fit on the album. And to everyone, click on the ‘shows’ section of my website to see if I will be coming to your town soon – I really hope to see you there!

– Jason

REALLY???!! I JUST stopped getting tv guide(facepalms)

hi sunn!!!

Well, maybe it’s better for Jason to wait a bit. November was getting super crowded with Idols releasing. Good luck to him.

So it seems (from my limited and anecdotal experience) that Cook’s popularity outside the AI bubble is more about the songs (radio play) than it is about him being known as a personality or celebrity or anything like that.

Thank heavens for that. I don’t want to see him on Access Hollywood unless it’s about raising money for charity.

As for RCA, I hope whatever airheads decided that only two singles — that David didn’t write — were all that they would release from the album gets their walking papers handed to them because they are made of lose.

If he did wear it, I don’t think there’s any positive way to spin it. It would make no sense. So I can’t believe he wore it unless you tell me he did and there are pictures.

And this assumes he saw them and knew there were there. Again, if people hadn’t blown up the pictures and pointed it out to me, I wouldn’t have known to look for them. And again again, some people really don’t see them as being swastika shaped, I do, but some people have to have arrows drawn and the things outlined to see them. Not me, but it did take me forever to find the second one, even with being told there were two there.

So I think it’s a big leap to assume Adam knew he had Nazi swastikas on a jacket he wore, and no, I don’t think he’s hiding his Jewishness and gayness and is a seekrit Nazi, but that’s just me.

Hmmm, I don’t think that’s a wise move on Jason’s part. Missing the holidays and missing the extra “oh what the hell” buyers who purchase Kris’ cd. Hopefully AI will have him on to promote it since they’ll be airing new shows by then.

Mila, I don’t get that either because to me, Declaration does not equal the sound of Lie does not equal the sound of Bar-Ba-Sol certainly does not equal the sound of Permanent. Oh and I actually agreed that Adam is technically superior. He just has never made me care. I want to be moved by music. The best voice singing in perfect pitch doesn’t necessarily move me. It can be very workmanship. It can be very showoffy. I’m not saying that I find Adam to be both or either of these, but I’m also not saying that I’m moved when he sings. Honestly, he pretty much leaves me cold. Of course, mileage varies, and I’m ok with that. It would be a sad world if everybody loved the same music.

Kelly’s big hit from her first cd was Miss Independent, not a very memorable song. It was her sophomore cd that made her big. I think David might do the same with his second cd. Hoping anyway. But respectable artists have thriving careers without ever being top-40 artists too.

agree. just came back from Austin City Limits….so many great acts that are not Top 40 names, yet that doesn’t make them less “successful”. to name a few: Avett Brothers, Brett Dennen, Phoenix, Ghostland Observatory etc. In fact, I would only categorize 3 of the headliners(Pear Jam, Dave Mathews, and Kings of Leon) as Top 40/Mainstream….even acts like the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and John Legend, who are recognizable to some by name, are not that popular to the masses (imo).

I do think Cook has a good road ahead of him….and I look forward to what he’ll come up with in his second and third album. Who knows what type of music he might develop in the coming years? Maybe he’ll become a huge radio friendly singer or maybe he’ll drop a critically acclaimed album. Maybe both. Hell, I would have never guessed the Pink of You Cant Take Me Home would be the Pink of Sober today. Artists evolve all the time….that’s why I think we should all give these idol kids some time to find themselves in the music world.

From Brian Mansfield’s interview:

Yes and no. It’s the American Idol family, so he got compared to me, as being rebellious and flamboyant. I got that. I guess I’m known as the rebellious American Idol. And he kind of did his own thing

Yes, Adam did his own thing, and so did Blake. But:

I never really thought of Blake being rebellious, tho he did put his own spin on songs.

I cannot imagine calling Blake flamboyant. Irreverent, maybe. But flamboyant? And I never considered him as out of the box as Adam was. I mean, he sang Keene and that was considered “edgy.” I think when he beatboxed his way through “You Give Love A Bad Name” he was terrific, but that’s the only time I can remember him really putting his stamp on a song (and he was my favorite by FAR S6).

I do like his endorsement of Adam, and Adam tweeted the same.

Bad news about Jason’s album, I know some fans of his that will be disappointed and missing Black Friday? Not a good thing.

Oh and why is Matt tweeting Kris in reply to a month old tweet? Weird…

Oceana:
Adam’s concert denim jacket/shirt that he wore soley for the group closing number Don’t Stop Believing had a small cartoon hand drawn in colored ink of the upper right front shoulder and within this small cartoon there were two symbols that most have come to know as the swastika. No one even knew this was drawn on the jacket until it was auctioned on Ebay. And close-up photos were taken.

Please go to the Wikipedia for a short and concise history on the various cultures that have used this symbol for hundreds of years in art and their native cultures. Many asian cultures for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

I don’t think alot of people will make very much about it at all. but it was on the jacket.

@thedavidcook: Got stopped by Papparazzi while walking into the doctor. I was on the phone with my dad. Man, he is so famous!!!
about 3 hours ago from mobile web

**
So the papparazzi cometh, y’all. Check your local Access Hollywood.

I live in NYC — I hear DC’s songs on radio all the time. Fresh and WPLJ play all his songs.

bad news from AINOW:

Just got an email reply from the folks at FMQB about @adamlambert ‘s single release date – they tell me Adam’s single…1 minute ago from yoono

.. @adamlambert ‘s single was set to release next Monday – but it has now been moved to an unspecified date – stay tuned for updates!less than 20 seconds ago from yoono

Q3
October 6, 2009 at 4:54 pm

ETA: Perhaps the person who drew the image will explain what it is. I can’t figure out what the mushroom-headed thing is. Is it a person wearing a helmet? If it is a Hindu or Asian image that would explain it in a positive way.

Well, I didn’t draw it but I commented on it in the Gaga thread. The mushroom-headed thing, I think, is a badly drawn version of Iron Maiden’s mascot “Eddie.” He’s a very scary skull-creature. This mascot was very popular in album art of the 70s and 80s. http://www.maiden-world.com/articles/history-of-eddie.html. I’m pretty sure any swastikas in the drawing are pulled from this heavy-metal era artwork. It’s purely rock art, and I wouldn’t take it as anything more meaningful than that. And, as many others have noted, before the Nazi Party took up the swastika for their untoward cause, the symbol was part of Eastern religions. I’m fairly sure it is no indication of any political leanings on Adam’s part, it’s just an unfortunate scribble on the shoulder of a “rock star” vest that he wore. YMMV.

I’m going to guess that whoever drew the swastika was going for the Hindu symbol not the Nazi one. But unless the photo is reversed, they drew the Nazi swastika in error. Or there’s another explanation for the image.

And if you don’t think a Nazi swastika is a big thing, then feel free to wear one while walking around New York City. You’ll get quite a reaction I’m sure. These were tiny of course since no one noticed them the entire tour. Until this week obviously.

.. @adamlambert ‘s single was set to release next Monday ‘“ but it has now been moved to an unspecified date ‘“ stay tuned for updates!less than 20 seconds ago from yoono

Wonderful. Next thing you know, they’ll push his album back, like they did with Jason’s.

I think that Adam fans should ready themselves, I am losing hope after hearing [other season 8 idols].

What do the three singles released from other Season 8 contestants have to do with Adam Lambert

Actually it is not just season 8 – it is all idols before him. I would love to think that he will be different, but at this point – not so hopeful. MJ has been pointing this whole “get the album out quick” thing for months, after hearing Kris and Allison I am just beginning to really pay attention. Sigh.

ETA – and because I am feeling particularly negative today, someone mentioned that they were hopeful about TFM ?? The title scares the shit out of me, so the song….yikes.

Let’s remember that FMQB was the only place that had Adam’s single listed for 10/12, and MJ said from the start that the date was not correct.

We really, really live in our own AI created bubble sometimes and we just don’t GET IT when we are told that the people WE know so well from Idol are not known outside of that bubble.

As a point of reference…how many of us that don’t listen to Rap or Hip Hop or much R&B could list 10 Artists from each category. I’d be hard pressed to list a couple. And the other day I was looking up Rock music on I-tunes and I haven’t even heard of half of the groups that had top 20 hits. And I bet that in Urban parts of the country even Carrie and the rest of Country Music’s top 10 wouldn’t even be a blip on the radar.

Realistically even the best known Idol performers would probably have less than a 25% identifiable factor on most across the board surveys. Come on, there are people who don’t even know who Obama is much less who his Vice President is.

So it is pretty realistic to say that very few people know who David Cook or David Archuleta are…..and Allison, Kris, and Adam we probably should forget about them in relationship to the grand scheme of things. Even on this board…many first timers don’t have a clue who Blake and Taylor and Kat are, even Clay and Rueben are suspect.

Perspective!

I sincerely doubt they will push back album date-they want black Friday sales.

However what we don’t know about the single is if TFM could be being released, or if they thought too much press competition with Michael Jackson single release.

For RCA timetable, there is still plenty of time to release the single…

I never really thought of Blake being rebellious, tho he did put his own spin on songs.

I cannot imagine calling Blake flamboyant. Irreverent, maybe. But flamboyant? And I never considered him as out of the box as Adam was. I mean, he sang Keene and that was considered ‘edgy.’  I think when he beatboxed his way through ‘You Give Love A Bad Name’  he was terrific, but that’s the only time I can remember him really putting his stamp on a song (and he was my favorite by FAR S6).

its all relative. at that time, Blake was a rebel and out of the box (based on the crop of contestants that came before him). just like David Cook was the original “musician”, deconstructing songs to make it his own. Thus Season 9 contestants will have to further push the envelope if they want to top Adam was being edgy or Kris as being artistic. heck, if allison had competed in season 6, she would have been considered edgy and flamboyant compared to the likes of Jordin and Melinda LOL

Tess, I’m on the fence about this being an “in the bubble” situation. I know pretty much all the bands/artists in the Top 40, HAC or Rock genres because I am a “music fan.” As I said in a recent post, in NY we are pretty familar with Cook and Sparks from airplay, not idol. That’s just my situation and those I’ve spoken to. No one I know watches Idol, and I don’t watch it either. Only caught it this year from Top 4 on.

I said towards the end of one of the Adam threads, but since the discussion is still going on, the design as a whole is of Iron Maiden’s Eddie the Head, specifically version from the Somewhere in Time album. The design off to the side on the vest matches the design on Eddie’s chest. Part of the problem is that the picture on the vest isn’t particularly well drawn, and some of the details look bad taken out of context of the whole picture. I also wouldn’t be surprised if some of the ink has faded, making it look worse.

For anyone who’s wondering, here the cover of Somewhere in Time, though the actually picture on the vest is also influenced by some of the interior art work. http://pds5.egloos.com/pds/200707/17/05/c0022305_07071712.jpg You can see pretty clearly the design on the chest, as well as the glowing eye that who ever drew it was trying to go for.

Edit: rowenaaine mentioned the Eddie connection before my post loaded, but this is the specific version of him that the vest used. Eddie’s design can be pretty different depending on the album.

For RCA timetable they is still plenty of time to release the single’ ¦

Hope so. It makes sense vis a vis TFM. And of course, MJ is always right.

ehhhhh I think dc’s not thaaaat succesful.(runs and hide from david’s fans) .if course that could b my age group and that I mostly listen to top 40(yes I know mass gagging occuring right now):) inknow by numbers blah blah blah david Is succesful but idk not jut me but for ppl I know if I say David cook most of the rime they don’t know who that is.or if they know they’re not familiar with many of his songs.

Thanks, luvadamlambert. I’m a DC fan, and that was exactly my point. And it’s not just 12 yr olds (that’s how old you are, right?) who listen to Top 40, it’s 18 and 20 and 24 year olds too. rowenaaine I know DC gets spins in NY, but after TOML and LO, not on Z100 (and never that much to begin with), and that’s like, the only relevant station for a lot of people I know. He hasn’t had that big Top 40 hit, and thusly, hasn’t permeated pop culture.

So is Adam’s first single TFM or something off of his album?

hmmm maybe “moved to an unspecified date” means EARLIER. moved doesnt have to mean pushed back.

*takes off rose colored glasses*

DAMMIT

Tony, Twitter promises more info in a few. I will monitor and let everyone know what I find…..

So is Adam’s first single TFM or something off of his album?

Two different singles. Apparently TFM is not on his album. I now suspect that it will be released before the single TBA, but no one’s sayin’ nothin’. I thought it would come out a couple of weeks before 2012, but maybe a month before instead?

ETA: 4evrmomof4, you rock.

As to Adam’s jacket: I think it is a very unfortunate oversight. Adam would never sympathize with Nazi ideology. It flies in the face of everything he has ever done or said. I have seen and heard Nazi sympathizers and he just ain’t one. He is pretty much the opposite of one.

“I think VFTW will have zero to nil impact on Adam’s sales. Let them beat their wings, nobody cares, nobody’s listening. They’re a tiny little corner of the internet, negative malcontents, mean-spirited haters who would rather destroy than create anything of value.”

I’m not even an Adam fan (liked him at first, more and more turned off by him as time went on), but VFTW will have no effect at all on how Adam sells. Adam’s sales will be from people who like Adam and want to buy his music. It doesn’t matter whether there are people who just don’t care about Adam, or people who actively dislike him, or people who absolutely hate him. None of those groups will have any power to drive down Adam’s sales because *they were never going to buy his album anyway*. So, while I don’t give credence to the theories that state Adam only lost AI because there were people voting against him (and not necessarily for Kris), whether that’s true or not for Idol, those same people have no power to effect Adam’s sales in the real world.

By the way, this principle holds true for Danny too, which is why I think people will be ‘surprised’ when his album does better than expected (as I think it will). There will probably be blogs saying ‘What? How can this be? Doesn’t everyone *hate* Danny?’.

Again, the rabid haters have no power to harm any of the Idols sales. The fans who want to purchase the albums are the ones who have the power at that point.

“I think J Hud is extremely successful. She’s got an Oscar, grammy, and she’s in demand in the industry.”

She’s a successful actor and musician, no doubt, but her record sales are not big league by any means, nor is she in a huge number of films. She’s on her way, yes, but sometimes I think her success is slightly overstated. In the music business she’s not anywhere near the league that Kelly, Carrie and Daughtry play in, at least as far as I can see. But there’s no doubt she’s successful.

“David Cook still needs that massive Top 40 hit to break out as a bigger star.”

It will come. If he’s allowed to release a single that he actually wrote. I’m frustrated that RCA hasn’t done this yet…

“If RCA had put Cook as the opening act on a larger tour his visibility would have increased.”

Maybe… but as others have said, this approach didn’t help Jordin sell more albums. Rock is a finicky little genre, and building credibility is important. I think David is taking the right approach (and it’s a page out of what Daughtry did before him). Build up from smaller venues and learn/hone your craft. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next stage does include opening for a much larger act in bigger venues (my personal dream pairing would be if he was opening for the new Daughtry arena tour that is starting late October). I think David’s on track, and doing well. I just wish RCA would hurry up and release ‘Lie’ as a single. There’s no way that song would not be a big top 40 hit.

rowenaaine: Well, I didn’t draw it but I commented on it in the Gaga thread. The mushroom-headed thing, I think, is a badly drawn version of Iron Maiden’s mascot ‘Eddie.’  He’s a very scary skull-creature. This mascot was very popular in album art of the 70s and 80s. http://www.maiden-world.com/articles/history-of-eddie.html. I’m pretty sure any swastikas in the drawing are pulled from this heavy-metal era artwork. It’s purely rock art, and I wouldn’t take it as anything more meaningful than that. And, as many others have noted, before the Nazi Party took up the swastika for their untoward cause, the symbol was part of Eastern religions. I’m fairly sure it is no indication of any political leanings on Adam’s part, it’s just an unfortunate scribble on the shoulder of a ‘rock star’  vest that he wore. YMMV.

Well the symbol on the side is clearly from Iron Maiden’s “Somewhere in Time” but that “head” really doesn’t look anything like “Eddie” and Iron Maiden never used swastikas. But you’re right some underground Heavy Metal bands did, particularly in Northern Europe. So makes some weird kind of sense to me.

But I do agree with the doodle on the shoulder of a “rock star” costume that Adam wore — although the association of Iron Maiden and that bedazzled Levi vest is just too funny for words.

I knew that vest was trouble the minute I saw it! LOL! I just knew it!

4evrmomof4
October 6, 2009 at 5:10 pm
bad news from AINOW:

Just got an email reply from the folks at FMQB about @adamlambert ‘s single release date ‘“ they tell me Adam’s single’ ¦1 minute ago from yoono

.. @adamlambert ‘s single was set to release next Monday ‘“ but it has now been moved to an unspecified date ‘“ stay tuned for updates!less than 20 seconds ago from yoono

I think FMQB meant the Radio add date, which would have been 12/10 according to their timetable. We always knew that date was wrong. I think the single release is still either mid or late October, the radio adds date could well be November.

Hi Luvie (Waves)

So it is pretty realistic to say that very few people know who David Cook or David Archuleta are’ ¦..and Allison, Kris, and Adam we probably should forget about them in relationship to the grand scheme of things. Even on this board’ ¦many first timers don’t have a clue who Blake and Taylor and Kat are, even Clay and Rueben are suspect.

I agree and yet Idol contestants do have the advantage of appearing on the highest rated TV show, twice a week, for however many weeks they last. So, for a brief time, they do achieve some familiarity. It’s whether that lasts in a viewer’s mind — especially those who buy music. (I know there are people I’ve completely forgotten about from previous seasons of Idol.)

suebrody: bad news from AINOW:

Just got an email reply from the folks at FMQB about @adamlambert ‘s single release date ‘“ they tell me Adam’s single’ ¦1 minute ago from yoono

.. @adamlambert ‘s single was set to release next Monday ‘“ but it has now been moved to an unspecified date ‘“ stay tuned for updates!less than 20 seconds ago from yoono

Wonderful. Next thing you know, they’ll push his album back, like they did with Jason’s.

My translation: FMBQ had a date on their schedule that was not correct and now the have the same date as everyone else — no date.

My translation: FMBQ had a date on their schedule that was not correct and now the have the same date as everyone else ‘” no date.

And the title of the single is still TBA.

4evrmomof4
October 6, 2009 at 5:10 pm
bad news from AINOW:

Just got an email reply from the folks at FMQB about @adamlambert ‘s single release date ‘“ they tell me Adam’s single’ ¦1 minute ago from yoono

.. @adamlambert ‘s single was set to release next Monday ‘“ but it has now been moved to an unspecified date ‘“ stay tuned for updates!less than 20 seconds ago from yoono

OK can someone translate this for me? FMQB? yoono? Does this mean there’s trouble with the single (as in L’il Wayne’s album being moved back because it was a mess).
Ugh!

ETA: And what is AINOW?
I go away for a few minutes and suddenly feel entirely lost.

Adorable NY Post Allison review with funny Adam mention

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2009/10/06/2009-10-06_american_idol_runnerup_alison_iraheta_the_real_snarling_deal_on_new_single.html

I’m so hoping David Cook gets his big Top 40 hit. one if not more, so he can finally be a success outside the AI bubble.

but I’m quite pleased with all the other ways he’s been successful so far – the tour, the music vids, the charity work, the USO tour, the platinum records, meeting & working with some of his own musical idols, playing for the all-star game, buying a house, a car, a dog. He’s not bartending or painting apartments. He’s playing sold out shows with his friends now not sleeping on their couch.

and he plays music I like, that makes me happy, and even makes me cry sometime – like when he sang John Lennon’s Christmas song at Rockefeller Center last year, or Permanent at the AI finale. Maybe for a musician connecting with people like that is success.

I really liked the article about what they wanted to hear Kelly Clarkson sing. I might have liked it more if they’d picked a cover or two, but it was a pretty good overview of Kelly’s hits and why (that voice!) she has been successful after Idol.

Just finished reading this thread– wow! All over the place, but I’m loving it.

I don’t think I’ve seen this review of Allie’s single posted yet:
Allison is the real snarling deal

It’s a good one.

Kris is #80 on iTunes.
Still no word on anything Adam except for the rehash on the thingie on his jacket.

And Sunn I hope you’re right about this:

Sunn
October 6, 2009 at 5:33 pm
4evrmomof4
October 6, 2009 at 5:10 pm
bad news from AINOW:

Just got an email reply from the folks at FMQB about @adamlambert ‘s single release date ‘“ they tell me Adam’s single’ ¦1 minute ago from yoono

.. @adamlambert ‘s single was set to release next Monday ‘“ but it has now been moved to an unspecified date ‘“ stay tuned for updates!less than 20 seconds ago from yoono

I think FMQB meant the Radio add date, which would have been 12/10 according to their timetable. We always knew that date was wrong. I think the single release is still either mid or late October, the radio adds date could well be November.

ETA: OOPS.. momof4 beat me to the link!!!

OK can someone translate this for me? FMQB? yoono? Does this mean there’s trouble with the single (as in L’il Wayne’s album being moved back because it was a mess).
Ugh

No, I think Q3 is absolutely correct, they had bad info, which mj said was bad info from almost the first day it was out, but FMQB didn’t bother to change it. Now they are changing their bad info in line with the info everyone else has, which is no info on a specific date So no problems from Adam’s POV, he’s still on target, as far as we know, to release somewhere around mid-October.

I’m so hoping David Cook gets his big Top 40 hit. one if not more, so he can finally be a success outside the AI bubble.

Jennifer Hudson found success outside of the AI bubble w/o a Top 40 hit. She won an Oscar and her R&B Grammy was not for a Top 40 song. Strange how this Top 40 meme continues. Carrie Underwood became known and successful out of the AI bubble, well before Before He Cheats became a cross over song. How many rock bands and rock artists get played on Top 40 radio. Look where Dave Mathews Band, Green Day, and U2 get played – HAC.

I am sad about Jason’s album, and I don’t think pushing back the date is a good sign.

Well, I was only wondering about Adam’s single because they pushed back Jason’s album and yet already released the first single. RCA continues to be tight lipped about this, so hopefully they are holding it b/c of TFM (and again, mj said that the 10/12 date was wrong). Who knows when