Idol Headlines for 04/02/12

Jordin Sparks will take part in a “Sparkle” Q&A on Facebook today with comedian, Mike Epps. Click for more information.

AMERICAN PIEDOL

Heejun is in Banff for the Live! with Kelly show. Here he is with Jason Biggs from American Reunion. Heejun tweeted, “AMERICAN PIEDOL”

Ryan Seacrest Is Said to Be Close to New Deal With Comcast – Ryan Seacrest is on the verge of completing a new contract with NBCUniversal, the company that owns the E! channel, where he is a host and a producer; Bravo, where he is a supplier of programming; and NBC, where he will soon appear sometimes on the “Today” show. He is likely to announce an expanded relationship with the company when he comes on “Today” on Tuesday morning. The appearance was teased on Sunday night by Jim Bell, the executive producer of “Today,” who wrote in a Twitter message, “Tuesday morning live on the TODAY show in Studio 1A, Ryan Seacrest will make a big NBC announcement.” – Read more at The New York Times

‘American Idol’ Mansion Former Orgy Porn Den – The “American Idol” kids are following in the footsteps of orgy-lovin, sex-crazed, swingers — TMZ has learned — because the mansion they just moved in to was previously used for PORN! Sources tell TMZ, the new digs currently housing the top 9 finalists on ‘Idol’ is the same place Playboy TV shot season 2 of its racy sex show “Swing.” As for the specs — the former sex den is a 10-bdrm, 16-bath, 16,000 sq. ft swingers dream … now housing the squeaky clean — soon to be Disney World attraction — “Idol” finalists. – Read more at TMZ

Idology: Celebrating Elise, Defending Jessica and Sparring Over DeAndre and Skylar

Read more at TV Line

Keck’s Exclusives First Look: An American Idol Visits Hart of Dixie – There will be a wedding on the season finale of The CW’s Hart of Dixie, but it may not be the George-and-Lemon marriage fans are expecting. In the April 23 episode, George (Scott Porter) skips town with Zoe (Rachel Bilson) and they end up at a bar and are serenaded by last year’s American Idol winner, Scotty McCreery. – See the photo at TV Guide</a>

Interview: Haley Reinhart Wants Music Fans to Listen Up! – The singer has been on quite the press tour as of late, which included making her return to the Idol stage earlier this month, as well as appearing on the popular CW drama, 90210. Earlier this week, Reinhart graciously took the time to chat with me about her new single, having creative control on her album, and what she hopes her fans will take away from Listen – Read more at SeattlePI

Carrie Underwood Leaves Us Blown Away – Carrie Underwood is that “all-American girl” she sings about on her 2007 album Carnival Ride: She lounges in sweats, albeit with thick, matted false eyelashes still weighing her down from her photo shoot, as she chats candidly about her “wild” plans for the night, which include a trip to the new Whole Foods near her Brentwood, Tennessee, home and cuddling with Ace and Penny, her canine sidekicks. And, like so many women her age, Underwood chose Las Vegas for her bachelorette party before tying the knot with Mike Fisher (of the NHL’s Nashville Predators) in Georgia in 2010. Looking at her lean figure, one would never guess that her favorite Vegas activity is indulging in the local dining scene. – Read more at VegasMagazine

KELLY CLARKSON IS STRONGER THANKS TO ‘AMERICAN IDOL’ – Clarkson knows if it hadn’t been for winning American Idol, her career would not be where it is today. Clarkson told us that wining the competition was like hitting the lotto and goes on to reminisce the night she won. (Click on the audio player to hear Kelly Clarkson) – Listen at FOX All Access

The Voice trumps Simon Cowell’s Britain’s Got Talent in ratings war – The Voice averaged 9.6 million viewers against 7.6 million for BGT during the 20 minute window when the two programmes overlapped. The Voice sees singers take part in blind auditions with judges Jessie J, Tom Jones, Will.i.am and Danny O’Donoghue showing their approval for an act by swinging round in their chairs to catch a first glimpse. – Read more at Telegraph.co.uk

Smash Preview: Adultery Bombshell Will Be ‘Quite Damaging,’ Says Brian d’Arcy James – TVLINE | How does he find out about Julia’s affair?
Over the last couple of episodes, you’ve seen Frank witness the working relationship that Julia and Michael have, and I think subconsciously there’s always a kind of radar that one has for these types of things. There is an interesting way that he puts two and two together – it’s born out of the world in which we live, and by that I mean the information I receive comes in the form of Julia’s work and themes that she perhaps has written about. Let’s put it that way. TVLINE | Is Will Chase around, so that Michael can get clocked?
He’s definitely in this episode, and we do have a showdown, for sure. I love that scene. Like I said, it is unfortunate for Frank — the story is quite heavy for him — but for me as the actor, it’s what you live for. – Read more at TV Line

  • Anonymous

    Besides the Facebook thing with Jordin about Sparkle the trailer has debuted. This is the Today Show segment.

    http://todayentertainment.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/02/10980926-whitney-houston-shines-in-exclusive-clip-from-final-film-sparkle
     

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYFK77IYLRQIVATQ2MJKSW2J7Y Pam

    This week’s Idology was all kinds of WIN!  I kind of get what Melinda is saying about Skylar with her mannerisms on the stage and I think she’s right.  It does seem that Skylar is sort of getting into a weekly pattern with it and it would be nice if the mentors and especially Jimmy could maybe advise to pull back just a little with it.  I still give her props for not putting me to sleep which brings me to Slezak’s point about Hollie.  I’ve been saying for a few weeks what he just said there.  Unless she makes a quick turnaround this week and tries something uptempo, she could be toast on Thursday.

    Thanks mj!

  • Tess

    If Slezak and I were friends I am sure there never would be a concert that we would agree to see together.  Over the years we have yet to come to terms about most everything on American Idol.  What he loves I tolerate, what he dislikes I find myself exalting.  But, in the long run, I find that my personal track record has been much better than his so I’ll continue to take much of what he says with a grain of salt.  As for MindyDoo….well, lets just say that I think she is vulnerable as the rest of us are accused of being in so far that she tends to let her heart rule her head, sometimes, IMHO. 

  • http://twitter.com/SlimyMeatballs Nick Peterson

    Is anyone else as curious as I am to see how this whole “Sparkle” thing turns out for Jordin? Do we think it’s a serious film with a real story and acting etc? Or will it be a straight-to-DVD type of movie?

    Sadly, I feel like it’s the latter…

  • http://twitter.com/raya4 raya

    I do love Idology, even when I don’t agree with Slezak and company, and I was waiting for this one just because I knew that Slezak and Melinda would be in disagreement this week on a few of the performances.  I admit I get a little annoyed sometimes with some of the over the top fangirling on Slezak’s part, but it’s still generally entertaining. 

    Hollie, IMO will at the very least scrape through this week.  I think being in B2 will call her fans to vote like crazy.  Probably Skylar too.  Performances aside, which I realize will likely skew my opinions, DeAndre is probably the most vulnerable.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    I loved what they said about the Hollie vs Jessica thing. I didn’t like that Jimmy set it up that way since it could make it harder for one to get the others’ votes if one gets voted off. These girls will need all the help that they can get. That said I want Hollie to step it up this week because she is so good, and she is perfectly capable of singing something other than a big diva ballad.

    I’m also glad they called out that standing O situation. That was ridiculous. Still wondering how Jessica didn’t get one and 4 of the guys did. SMH.

    I’m still not seeing why Colton gets all this praise. He’s not bad, but is he really that fantastic? I get it with Phillip more because at least he’s charismatic and good in his niche, even though he’s copycat. But Colton? Really? I’m lost.

    I want to see Josh come back strong this week. Curious to see where Phillip takes things too.

  • http://twitter.com/Sassycatz Sassycatz

    I loved what they said about the Hollie vs Jessica thing. I didn’t like
    that Jimmy set it up that way since it could make it harder for one to
    get the others’ votes if one gets voted off. These girls will need all
    the help that they can get. That said I want Hollie to step it up this
    week because she is so good, and she is perfectly capable of singing
    something other than a big diva ballad.

    Agree. And I could be wrong here, but it looks like the producers (Interscope and Idol) have picked a favorite, because they appear to be helping Jessica more with finding “obscure” songs that they arrange for her. Slezak was right; they should’ve dissuaded Hollie from singing the Carrie tune. Who knows; maybe they tried but didn’t show it.

    I’m still not seeing why Colton gets all this praise. He’s not bad, but is he really that fantastic?

    I don’t get him either.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina
    Tinawina, I don’t get Colton either. The whole thing kind of eludes
    me and is probably the worst scenario winner for me this season.

    I don’t get him either.

    Thanks guys. Well at least I’m not alone.

    If he wins, I believe it will be more irritating than Lee’s win for me. Oh well.

    How did my post move down in the timeline? ‘Tis confused.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DJ4FPAE2BM4XDCNVQITJSS3S2Q Sue

    Inside news from Durbin camp: James will appear on THR’s Idol Hangover on April 13th (the day after his result’s show performance) live at 11:00am PST.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DJ4FPAE2BM4XDCNVQITJSS3S2Q Sue

    I 2nd that, but I doubt he’ll win, thankfully. Lets not forget the 4th place curse that claims every male rocker who’s last name begins with a “D”.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with Melinda’s accessment of Skylar it was funny on twitter last week Melinda said she was afraid Skylar was going to knock herself over.  I think she is sacrificing the vocals way to much to the performance aspect.  The bigger problem to me is that they have not been great the last few weeks.  Unfortunately for Hollie Jessica is on the show this year.  Jessica vocals, polished performances leave a very talented Hollie in the dust. IMO  Jessica has the only legimate shot at beating the Colton/P2 tandom and I think that is what Jimmy realizes. Elsie is great but I am guessing she will come in number 4 or 3.

  • larc

    Slezak was right; they should’ve dissuaded Hollie from singing the Carrie tune. Who knows; maybe they tried but didn’t show it.

    Or maybe they are trying to throw her under the bus and agreed with the choice.  I hope Hollie’s trip to the B3 scared her enough to start her thinking more about what she needs to sing.  I agree with Pam that one more week of the same old same old might be Hollie’s last.

  • Anonymous

    I have never been a Jordin fan, she’s a little boring for me. But I think this movie might be a good thing for her. Maybe this acting ging it will help to improve her stage presence when she’s singing and on tour.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t get Colton or P2 at all.  Boring is the first word that I associate with them.  It’s almost as bad as last year when a WGWG sang the same song each week and wasn’t called on it.

  • Anonymous

    I agree that Jessica has the best chance of challenging the heart throb duo of Colton and Philip, and she is doing it the old fashioned way by displaying her obvious vocal superiority.  To me, it is almost like she is shaming us into having to vote her.  Sadly, I still think one of the boys will win.  Never underestimate a girl/woman with a crush.

  • GeauxSaints

    I love Melinda….I hope she is doing well!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DJ4FPAE2BM4XDCNVQITJSS3S2Q Sue

    P2 is just like Scotty was on the show last year, he sounds the same every week, he’s a total one track pony. Colton, as much as he annoys me, at least gets criticized sometimes, by Jimmy if not by the judges. P2 on the other hand is yet to be criticized by anyone, not even Jimmy.

  • http://twitter.com/desireechick kesia monteith

    Hmmm, didn’t realize that. Colton or P2 has to leave before top 4, because if they both make it past top 4, it is over, one of the will win, because the other will get the share of the other’s votes. I feel Colton will get the Constantine vote, and end at 6th. Don’t know, just a feeling.

  • Anonymous

    They all sound the same to me every week – the pop kids sing pop, the power balladiers sing power ballads, the country girl sings country, the light rock guys sing light rock – just like last year – I can’t think of anyone who changed it up every week – either last year or this year. One exception this year might be Elise who changed it up last week.

  • Anonymous

    The fuller trailer of Jordin’s  upcoming movie Sparkle she did with Whitney Houston is up. what i posted before was a bit shorter.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55cuiV9yL6Q&list=UUz97F7dMxBNOfGYu3rx8aCw&feature=plcp

  • http://twitter.com/desireechick kesia monteith

    I also don’t like the fact that Jimmy never compares Colton or P2, or even Deandre and Joshua. Why just the girls? Because 2 out of four that is left has no one else to compare to? So just single out the biggest rivalry? When it really is P2 or Colton that will come to ahead eventually.

  • Anonymous

    I’m thinking that because it’s Whitney’s last movie, and if it’s halfway good, it will get a good audience…hoping so anyway.

  • J04SuperMaN

    I wasn’t a fan of Melinda during her run on Idol.. But after watching Idolology the past few weeks I have decided that I absolutely love her.  I agree with 99.9% of everything she says. Her and Slezak are great together.  Can this show get picked up by E! or something as a half hour Sunday Night special? Someone make a call!

    Also loving the Elise-Love-Fest. I hope it never ends! Elise the Beast! Queen Elise! Lady Elise! Momma Elise! Whatever you wanna call her.. I love it. Reallllly looking forward to this week!

  • Anonymous

    Is this new info?

    @Mix106:disqus 
    #The Boise Music Festival July 7th @ Expo Idaho! Mix 106 presenting Smash Mouth, Kellie Pickler, James Durbin, Ryan Star and more to come!

    ETA – According to another Boise radio station, Chris Rene will also be playing this festival

  • http://twitter.com/desireechick kesia monteith

    I will say something about what has come up on Idology…Skylar has only been that kind of “crazy” for two performances. When she was getting at more mid-tempo fair, people say, “oh I miss sassy Skylar”, and she has been doing mid tempo for awhile now. The she finally gets into her sass, and people say, “oh she always does that.” I mean, I think she can’t win. She is the most interesting country act I have ever seen on the show. She delivers her performances with pizzaz and heart and soul, and kicks you down when needed. She is a joy to watch, and I think she is a rarity on a show like this. I think people can’t get over an 18-year-old girl, who know what she wants and how to perform, something that seems it takes years to develop. We need her brand of spunk IMO to the top 5.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/DJ4FPAE2BM4XDCNVQITJSS3S2Q Sue

    Well it’s the first I’m hearing it.

  • Anonymous

    My problem with Michael Slezak sometimes is that in recent years he’s been an over-the-top fan for

    -Elise, Jessica, Skylar (Season 11)
    -Hollie, Pia, Kendra (Season 10)
    -Crystal, Siobhan, Lily, Katelyn (Season 9)
    -Allison, Alexis, Jesse Langseth (Season 8)
    -Carly (Season 7)

    Then he calls out the judges whenever they disagree with him for unreasonably preferring one gender to the other. 

  • itsalleternal

    I wonder how much Simon’s ego will get drained seeing how his UK show lost in the ratings to what might be perceived as an American import?

  • Anonymous

    Looks like Slezak has a “crush” problem too.

  • http://twitter.com/TylerWV TylerWV

    I don’t get the Colton or P2 love.  I can’t see the label wanting Colton to win since he wants to do Christian rock, not a ton of money there and you know the label is all about money.  P2 has never impressed me at all vocally.  I too think Hollie is gone if she does another ballad.  Enough already!  I love Jessica and Elise and think Jessica has the best chance at winning.  YOu know of the two, the label wants the teenager who probably is more moldable and current.  I love Josh but think he needs to dial it back just a tad and do something more current with his own twist on it.  I love the reggae DeAndre, otherwise just no.  Skylar is still too copycat for me, I want to see Skylar perform, not a Miranda wannabe. 

  • itsalleternal

    Why is it that, when the show is on, WGWGs always seem to have the biggest fan bases? Even if they forget about them when the season ends…

  • http://twitter.com/raya4 raya

    Yes and no.  To me Slezak has favorites, which is fine.  It’s the over the top stanning that is a bit much for me.  Like the point to which he was so overboard on Haley last season, and still is to some degree.  Mind you I like Haley for the most part, but I finally had to stop following him last season because I was tired of the over the top Haley antics.  He seems to be getting there with Elise this season, who I also like well enough.

    That said, I do think he is always pretty good with the Idols in their exit interviews though, even if it’s not somebody he necessarily loves. 

    Then again, much as I love Melinda, she seems to be a bit over the top in her Joshua love as well. No matter what song he sings or how he performs. Though at least she called him out on the nose wipe. Ha ha.

  • Anonymous

    i have no way of knowing the sincerity of his convictions, but my gut feeling is that Colton would embrace Pop very fast if he thought it would be a sure road to success.  To me, his whole persona screams poser.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    I don’t mind people sticking to a genre if they mix it up within their genre. What I mean is, if you are going to sing country every week then change the tempo and sing different styles of country at least. If you successfully nail one week outside of country all the better, But that’s all I need.

    I feel like Elise, Deandre and Skylar have sufficiently mixed things up. Jessica did early on and needs to do it again soon. Colton has tried as well. I would say Hollie hasn’t at all, and its starting to hurt her. Phillip hasn’t either but they gush all over him so he’s immune for now. Joshua does the reverse where he tries to turn everything into gospel, and I think it will hurt him too.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t forget Haley and Kris :)

  • Anonymous

    P2 was criticized by the judges the very first week.

  • Anonymous

    Who is this WGWG that you speak of? I only remember Paul being called that last year.

  • Tess

    Maybe the reason that the kids sing inside their wheelhouse is because it has been proven via certain winners that singing “everything” while on the show doesn’t garner you any more long lasting fans than singing in your style or genre.  Besides, in the real world, I expect to hear my favorite singers sing what they are best at…it seems silly to me to expect someone to say, sing country, when everyone knows them as a pop artist (are you listening Kelly).

    Songs just seem to sound better when they are sung by people who sing them in their style…like Ring of Fire that Dilana created (and Adam) followed up with.  American Idol, itself, is understanding this better and better since few themes are limited to real genre specific like hard rock or country or old time Broadway tunes.  We are getting a lot more eras or song-writers that have broad genre sounding tunes.

    Being able to “copy” songs and karaoke them isn’t what Idol should be.  It is about taking songs and making them fit your voice and style and showing us, the audience, who you are as a performer and where you intend to head once the show is over. I’d rather judge someone on what they can do with their style than hear them sing out of it…that doesn’t give me any indication of who they “want to be” and whether I’d want to support them post idol.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ACMLXLYSSX73RNYQOUZWSO2I4U Enough already!

    If not for Idolology, I would never watch Idol again.   They bring a sense of normalcy after watching the judges do handstands and hosannas over  almost every not so hot performance and ignoring those that should be heralded.  Its as if they feel the need to go nuts instead of actual giving sound critiques after most performance–usually not the ones who deserve the standing O.   But then I suppose a standing O with this group of judges means nothing.  

  • Anonymous

    Here’s Taylor Hicks and girlfriend, Jennifer Wayne (granddaughter of John Wayne) at yesterday’s Indy Race Barbers Motor Speedway, where Jen’s country trio Stealing Angels sang the national athem.

    http://p.twimg.com/ApblTsNCAAENG6H.jpg 

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    LOL. I don’t think he’s poseur enough. The rock singing males consistently the pop charts are singing about partying and whatnot, like Hot Chelle Rae for instance, and I don’t see Colton ever ever going there.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MV64BS4FSISCASL4P656RXAFYQ Kayla

    Brian London ? @brianlondon
    Had rehearsal with @adamlambert yesterday. Brewing up something NEW and FRESH. You’re gonna wanna see this. Trust me. #myword

    Music Director for Bruno Mars, Taio Cruz, Jason Derulo, John West, Andy Grammer, Iyaz. Keyboards for Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Cee-Lo, Travie Mckoy, B.o.B

    Aw looks like Adam only got one day off after getting home from his month long radio tour, and spent yesterday rehearsing. He’s followed Brian London on twitter forever, I think he might know him, so I’m not sure that we can read anything into the Bruno Mars connection when it comes to song choice. Although you never know.

    I’m assuming they’re working out the live arrangements for Adam’s upcoming performances, excited!

  • Ringo

    I wonder if what we have seen in the last two years with performers staying in their “wheelhouse” is less staying true to themselves than being young and inexperienced and, as a result, lacking confidence to sing differently.  In the past, many of the more successful contestants were older with a lot of experience in performing professionally and they did change it up.  I’m thinking Melinda, Cook, Adam, Crystal.  They were able to do so, because they had done some exploring outside of Idol. Elise strikes me as fitting within this group. 

    Many/most of the other contestants this year are very young and appear to be relatively inexperienced.  What they think is their wheelhouse may be just a straight-jacket.  Hollie singing only power ballads is only a problem because she is not wowing us with her power ballads and it appears that she can sing as well or better outside that genre — her snippet of Madonna’s Borderline is an example.  It’s tough to change it up if you’ve never done it before, but I think it’s good advice to do so in her case.  Plus, its hard to travel that growth/development arc we all love so much unless you stretch yourself, at least a little bit.

  • Valentin432

    There’s a new editorial on What Not To Sing about the ‘guy’ problem and the evolution in the past few years.
    Worth a read.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t mind people sticking to a genre if they mix it up within their genre

    I don’t mind it either, and I was not criticizing any of them…just pointing out that it’s not just one or two of them who have in the past or do now…or for that matter who should. 

  • Anonymous

    That’s a sweeping generalization but I’ll try to answer.

    It’s hard to measure fan bases, but but some of these guys are actually “forgotten” much less than most of the other people on their seasons, in terms of the music business. They pretty much have careers. Contracts, tours, radio presence. While most of the others in their seasons don’t. Maybe Lee doesn’t right now but who knows? I’m not counting him out, either.

    There are not too many exceptions. There’s Adam (who’s half a WGWG, he’s W and he’s a G), and there’s Crystal, I guess…Haley is very new but may be successful. Etc.

    So maybe the people who got the votes got them for a good reason?

  • Anonymous

    I don’t get all the Colton hate on here. I hear the reasonings, but I just don’t get it. I absolutely love him; him and Elise are my clear, clear favorites. P2, meanwhile, is just meh for me. He sounds the same every week. To each his or her own, I guess. Obviously everyone’s has different opinions, I’m just saying though. 

  • Anonymous

    Exactly.  To each their own.  I personally don’t see anything that special in either Colton or Phillip, but over the weekend I was talking to a guy in his mid-20s who is a huge Phillip Phillips fan.  He said I am crazy if I can’t see that guy’s raw talent.  Whatever.  They both seem just average to me, but I wish them both the best, and I’m happy that they have the fans they do.  Personally I think the girls are way more talented this year.

  • Valentin432

    When you win AI, you shouldn’t be forgotten 2 years later.
    Cook has had a very rough go his second time around and altough Kris is very early in it’s process, he’s had a hard time staying in the spotlight.

    When you go to a show like AI or X factor or the Voice, you’re attempting to become big, you want exposure to become sort of a mainstrem act, Kris and Lee have failed from the get go, Cook has struggled lately.
    Compared to the female winners that’s a stark contrast.

  • http://twitter.com/bignliddle BigNLiddle

    I Saw Jordin’s acting on an episode of Big Time Rush, and it wasn’t really that fantastic lol

  • Anonymous

    That’s the same thing my daughter told me about P2 – not my cup of tea but…  I agree I think the girls have more talent this year as well.

  • Anonymous

    I think we pretty much agree on this…posted a reply to another poster before I scrolled down and read yours.

    By the way, I wasn’t criticizing any of them…just pointing out that it wasn’t unique to just one or two who have done that or who are doing it now.

  • Anonymous

    Her acting debut on Broadway wasn’t fantastic either – according to multiple reviews.  I’m wondering, has Jordin taken and serious acting lessons or did she go into this role without any formal training? 

  • Ringo

    I’m with you.  I kinda get Colton, but seem him as galvinizing because of he wears his religion on his sleeve.  I don’t understand the P2 love much at all.  Every performance is sung with the same over the top intensity and earnestness regardless of the song.  I like intense singers like Eddie Vedder of Pearl Jam and maybe that’s what P2 is aiming for, but at least Eddie mixes it up. 

    P2’s voice also grates on me it consist of a kind of a strained, constipated growl (if that makes sense), and every line seems to followed by a dying, sliding note (ala Dave Matthews).  There is rarely any tone that he sings that I can say — that really sounds good.  And I like guys like Dylan, Neil Young and Lyle Lovett who don’t have pretty voices.  Plus P2 is just not that interesting musically for me.  Then again, I did only came to appreciate Bruce Springstein or Bono after years of hearing them, and they are wildly poputlar. Maybe P2 is one of the rare singers who I will not get until I hear him sing his own stuff.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MV64BS4FSISCASL4P656RXAFYQ Kayla

    JoJo Wright @JoJoWright
    Look who I bumped into… Good to see ya @adamlambert! We took a pic.(I’m on the left) http://pic.twitter.com/UjZVB65N

    Looks like Adam is doing one last day of radio promo in LA. Cute pic!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MV64BS4FSISCASL4P656RXAFYQ Kayla

    JoJo Wright @JoJoWright
    Look who I bumped into… Good to see ya @adamlambert! We took a pic.(I’m on the left) http://pic.twitter.com/UjZVB65N

    Looks like Adam is doing one last day of radio promo in LA. Cute pic!

  • Anonymous

    I was answering a question from someone who asked why “WGWGs” have big fanbases during their season and are “forgotten” afterwards. And the reason I answered was because this is one of those memes you hear all the time and seem to make sense until you think about it.

    Kris or Cook may not be the most successful Idol winners, but they aren’t the least, either, since they are still in the game, with major labels and radio play. Also, they are among the only successful people ever to have come off Idol. By that I mean, they still have active fan bases, are still recording for major labels, touring, etc. Most former Idol contestants – almost all – do not. (Since some non-winners -again, very few, but some – become successful or popular, obviously we shouldn’t just expect winners alone to do well after the competition is over. Maybe we should start expecting every runner up to be as successful as Adam, or every fourth place finisher to be another Daughtry. Because that’s basically what you’re doing when you expect every winner to be another Carrie or Kelly in terms of success. It’s highly unlikely, because this is the real world, not some construct of Idol perfection.)

    You really are putting words in these guys’ mouths (or thoughts in their heads) by assuming you know why they auditioned or what their goals were/are, as artists.

    And there can’t just be female winners

  • Valentin432

    Yes I’m assuming they want mainstream succes. If you’re an artist that already play at bars, or has a band or who has already recorded some indie albums, then the only reason to go to AI and “selling out” is to get exposition to become bigger.

    If you here just for the music, which is the kind of memo I hear from those fanbases, than you stay in your bar and continue to write, perform and cultivate a small fanbase, no need to go to a AI audition and deal with all the work and constraints for what is a very small chance of success.

    Yes Lee and Kris are by far the least successfull AI winners, this is not an opinion, it’s fact based on numbers even if you want to adjust for whatever deacrease there has been in album sales. If your active fanbase can only get you in the 100s on itunes three years after you won a show watched by over 20 million peoples, then you’ve done a bad job keeping them interested.
    And yes, I’m comparing idol winners because even tough there are some exceptions as to whom has had success post show, you’re still much better off coming in 1st than in any other position.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    Maybe P2 is one of the rare singers who I will not get until I hear him sing his own stuff.

    This pretty much sums up where I am with P2. I really do think he has charisma and good looks, which can help him in the real world, but I think he sounds just like Dave Matthews so his future, to me, lies in his songwriting. If he can write fantastic songs that are perfectly suited to his very specific type of voice and somehow not sound derivative, then he’ll be successful. But that’s a lot of ifs. Which is why I don’t think he has as much of a shot.

  • YankeeFan08

    Another spring concert for Adam:

    1035KTU
    It’s official – the summer’s biggest dance party has just been announced: http://ktu.com/l/ktuphoria @enrique305 @official_flo @adamlambert

    This is in addition to the Q102 Philly Springleball and Kiss 108 Summer Concert 2012 in Boston.  I’m guessing the next single is going straight to CHR radio.

  • Anonymous

    Sleezebag only likes the girl contestants.

  • Valentin432

    Except he loved Kris and still loves him, he also liked Paul Mcdonald and Jason Castro early on in their respective season.
    He also said specifically about him that he felt AI needed a “hottie” on that particular season and Kris filled the role, the same way he noticed the shot with P² shirtless, saying that it will help him bring in votes.

  • mmb

    Adams doing a Ktu concert?? That is great!!! Big NYC rhythmic-leaning chr station. 3 radio spring jingles all week/week after cd drop. Well done RCA/DMG

  • Anonymous

    I have really enjoyed Michael Slezak’s videos with EW and with tvline. I think that Melinda is a great addition because she is a hell of singer and an former idol–so she brings a very balanced and intelligent perspective to Idology. She also has good humor. Sometimes I do miss some of the snark from his gal pals over at EW–they could be quite hilarious.

    Now, I do think that Slezak has his faves (just like TPTB) and they get a little extra love from him while he slights others. I found this to be true last year in particular. He loved Pia, Haley and Paul McDonald. He loathed Casey Abrams for some reason. I remember one week Paul (who may have been the weakest vocalist of the season-and lacked any versatility) had a cold. Slezak said in his review–Awwww Paul has a cold and that’s how he explained away his lousy outing. Meanwhile, poor Casey had been in and out of the hospital for weeks, had very little time to rehearse– and no sympathy from Slezak at all. When Casey was voted off, Slezak said his exit interview with Casey had been corrupted so it was never seen. Hilarious!

    OTOH, I love that he does point out the way the girls are held to much higher standards than the guys and some of the other BS on idol. I really enjoy the funny edits on the videos with the Wonder Woman clips or Downton Abbey etc.
    The stuff with Haley last year was awesome.

    I’m pretty much in agreement with Slezak this year on his recaps. Just love Elise. What I think is lacking this season is personality. Other than Heejun, the contestants are kind of dull. Not much humor or wackiness or anything. The personalities last year helped make the season fun! IMO

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    Slezak has stanned several male contestants.

    The other thing that happens with Slezak is that the opinions of his editor sometime get confused with Slezak’s own favorites. Not everybody realizes he’s not the one making those editing choices.

  • Nele621

    you’re still much better off coming in 1st than in any other position.

    Yes for sure. Not only do you make more money winning, but better promotion coming off the win. When you go season by season, most the winners were the most successful with the exception of S2: Clay, but Ruben was also very successful, and neither have done that great in sales lately; S5: Daughtry no question; S8: Kris and Adam  almost equal success; S9: Lee and Crystal fairly equal.

  • Kylee

     The judges have actually gotten better with critiquing this year. I don’t think there is one contestant that has gotten away without any criticism. There is especially a huge difference in Steven. Jennifer is doing good also.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    Slezak-a-woman-has-to-win-they’re-not-pimping-my-diva is kinda annoying. I would love to see a Top 4 with Deandre, Heejun, Colton and P2 just to see Slezak exploding in anger.

  • Kylee

     I didn’t really like that girl who used to be with Slezak…they both used to always trash Danny Gokey. We all know people hated him because of the whole wife ordeal.

  • Anonymous

    This is great, they are on the ball. I can’t wait to see what they are going to come up with next. 

  • Anonymous

    If your active fanbase can only get you in the 100s on itunes three
    years after you won a show watched by over 20 million peoples, then
    you’ve done a bad job keeping them interested.

    IMO, that assessment didn’t take account of three factors:

    1.)  Not all 20M viewers are going to buy music after the show. Never have, never will.

    2.)  We don’t know the core fanbase numbers of any Idol.

    3.)  3 years is an eternity in the music industry.  It’s why, IMO, Kris–as well as Adam and Cook–would have been better served releasing something in between full-length albums.  A 5-song EP could have kept the momentum going.

  • Anonymous

    Adam’s success almost equal to Kris? LOL!

  • Anonymous

    I am sorry and afraid to say this, but feel I must.  Adam has been more successful than Kris in sales, concert draw, and I would say fame and artistic recognition with a Grammy nomination.  Now this might change as each is going into a second era and Adam is not off to a super fast start in USA, but so far Adam is quite a bit ahead.  

  • Anonymous

    Adam had said Kevin Hastings was his new Music Director and now Brian London is saying he is. Does anyone know for sure who it is and if it is Brian London, what happened to Kevin?? I thought Kevin was a really good fit with the band!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XDQP2Y46M5B3OHOKALDDGDHQCM Leandro

    I would pay 100 dollars to see Slezak reviewing this Top 7: Jeremy Rosado, Jermaine, Joshua, Heejun, Deandre, Colton and P2.

  • Nele621

    Both had only one platinum single, neither got a platinum album, both had successful tours. Adam did a little better, that’s why I said almost, and not equal like Lee and Crystal.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MV64BS4FSISCASL4P656RXAFYQ Kayla

    Adam had said Kevin Hastings was his new Music Director and now Brian London is saying he is. Does anyone know for sure who it is and if it is Brian London, what happened to Kevin?? I thought Kevin was a really good fit with the band

    Brian London answered some questions on twitter, apparently he’s the one who hooked Adam up with Kevin. Adam knows Brian from both of them being involved with the Zodiac Show, and Brian worked with Kevin on Rihanna’s tour. 

    So whatever happened, whether Kevin was only contracted for the initial radio promo and this was planned all along or whether Brian got freed up and was able to come onboard unexpectedly or some other reason we haven’t thought of yet, it all seems very amicable.

  • Anonymous

    If you’re going by income (Forbes) in 2010, CU was way on top, and Daughtry and Lambert were tied at $6 million each.  Kris wasn’t on the list – under $1 million I think was the cutoff.   Haven’t checked info for 2011.

  • Anonymous

    If you’re going by income (Forbes) in 2010, CU was way on top, and Daughtry and Lambert were tied at $6 million each.  Kris wasn’t on the list – under $1 million I think was the cutoff.   Haven’t checked info for 2011.

  • http://twitter.com/whiskey401 Whiskey

    3 years is an eternity in the music industry.  It’s why, IMO, Kris–as
    well as Adam and Cook–would have been better served releasing something
    in between full-length albums.  A 5-song EP could have kept the
    momentum going.
     
    ^^^I believe Adam had 2 EP remixes, Acoustic Live EP, Glamnation Tour DVD between full-lenght albums to keep his fans occupy until album 2.

  • shell29

    Ugh, please not another Kris/Adam battle (will season eight ever end?)

  • Anonymous

    If he wins, I believe it will be more irritating than Lee’s win for me. Oh well.

    I was a casual Lee fan his season and enjoyed him, but as the years have gone by I’ve seen how ridic that was! lol But IMO, at least with Lee, he might not have deserved to win over Crystal, but he was one of the better contestants that season because the rest were sooooooooo weak. With Colton, he’s not even in the top 3-4 in terms of talent and the gap between him and someone like Jessica is so huge that it would be the worst win of them all. IMO  of course : )

    As far as Idology, I’m almost 100% in agreement with at least one of Slezak and Melinda each week and this week was no different. I think Melinda was spot on with her thoughts on Skylar. She’s coasting and not in the Scotty McCreery kind of way.

    And they brought up a great point with the lack of standing O for Jessica and the Jessica v. Hollie debate. We wonder why a girl hasn’t won in 5 seasons, well, the show certainly doesn’t lend itself to one. When 4 of 5 guys get standing ovations and the other contestant is mentioned at least 4 times in 2 hours…. why wouldn’t the viewers go with this? Jessica outsings all 5 and they stay seated. Elise outsings everyone and J-Lo begrudgingly stands? They go on and on about how much more talented the girls are (and they usually are) and how a girl should win…. and then this happens….

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

    I was answering a question from someone who asked why “WGWGs” have big fanbases during their season and are “forgotten” afterwards. And the reason I answered was because this is one of those memes you hear all the time and seem to make sense until you think about it.

    It’s not just hearing about it, it’s pretty much reality even if you think about it. Kris, Lee, and Cook “just being in the game” is all too little. Mandisa is still in the game and she finished, what, 9th? One does not need to win AI to be in the game. 

    The point is, the only successful WGWG is Daughtry. Who finished 4th. (Scotty, being country and not rock pop/rock only half fits the meme.) So, the makers of the meme, Cook, Kris and Lee have managed to get a fanbase that propelled them to the 1st place and then shrugged them off real fast.

    Maybe we should start expecting every runner up to be as successful as Adam, or every fourth place finisher to be another Daughtry. Because that’s basically what you’re doing when you expect every winner to be another Carrie or Kelly in terms of success. 

    By this point, I don’t think anybody expects a winner of the magnitude of Carrie or Kelly to come out of Idol – with the market clogged with reality TV singers it’s just not feasible, especially after 10 years – but is expecting a winner who would be able to extend their Idol success post-show really too much?

    Adam and Daughtry aren’t neither exceptions nor the rule, they’re well within paramenters of lower-place finishers doing better than the winners that started in S2, if I have my facts straight, possibly enough to form a pattern to expect every third runner up to be more successful than a winner.  Cook, Kris and Lee have established a new pattern of wham-bam-thank-you-WGWG of the Idol voting. Their success and fanbase are limited to the show only and they aren’t capable of sustaining it post-show.  Maybe Scotty, by the virtue of being country will break the trend, but right now, the WGWG shooting to the top fast and falling fast is a pattern. Maybe this season a girl will break the pattern. What happened there to the  voting demographic to bias them so is beyond my abilities of answer, though.

  • http://twitter.com/weeeeezle weezle

    yea I know,  same fire starters, same pot stirrer – sometimes we just have to do the eye roll…

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

    Kris has won Idol?

  • Anonymous

    Maybe Scotty, by the virtue of being country will break the trend, but
    right now, the WGWG shooting to the top fast and falling fast is a
    pattern. Maybe this season a girl will break the pattern. What happened
    there to the  voting demographic to bias them so is beyond my abilities
    of answer, though.

    Maybe I’m just not being clear, I thought I was.

    Which girl, in the seasons of Cook, Kris, or Lee, if she had won, would have broken the pattern you speak of, and been a huge success?

    If there wasn’t one, then why do you keep blaming the voters for choosing such “loser” WGWGs? Don’t you understand they have done better than any of the girls in their seasons, as well as almost all the guys? That can’t be disputed.

    Being a winner isn’t some magic guarantee of success, and not winning does not guarantee lack of success –  so the fact that Kris and Cook have had more success than most of their Idol season mates, of both sexes, is enough for me to call them moderate successes, I guess.

  • Karen C

     
    It’s why, IMO, Kris–as well as Adam and Cook–would have been better served releasing something in between full-length albums.  A 5-song EP could have kept the momentum going.

    Either that, or if they had released more singles from the first albums while they were still successful. 

  • Karen C

     
    Cook, Kris and Lee have established a new pattern of wham-bam-thank-you-WGWG of the Idol voting. Their success and fanbase are limited to the show only and they aren’t capable of sustaining it post-show.

    I think it’s more of a problem with most Idol winners, not just the WGWG.  Actually all the winners other than Carrie and Kelly have shown significant decreases in sales with their second and third albums, including Ruben, Fantasia, and Jordin.  So, I don’t think it’s just a problem with the WGWG, I think it’s the effect of how much time since they were off the show for all winners.

  • Anonymous

    When you win AI, you shouldn’t be forgotten 2 years later.
    Cook has had a very rough go his second time around

    I can’t agree that Cook has been forgotten.  He sold somewhere between 40K-50K copies of his last album during his debut week, and while that’s a big drop from his first album, it is in line with what other artists in his genre are doing.

    It was a foregone conclusion that David would lose a lot of his AI fans, because that’s what happens with every AI alum.  I think that’s it’s overly simplistic to say that what happened with him is because he is a White guy who plays a guitar.  Considering that his debut numbers were good for his genre, what would have happened if he had a song on the radio at the time of his album release that was getting a lot of airplay, or at least had an AI over ten million, instead of the 2 or 3 million that it was at the time.  And what would have happened if he had other followup singles that received airplay?  In the end, that’s what determines how well an artist or an album will do.

    The same goes for Kris.  His problems stem from having only one sing that received a lot of airplay, as well as from being out of the public eye.  What happens if Jive follows LLWD up with a song that was able to achieve an AI over 4 million.

    Chris Daughtry is a white guy with a guitar, and it’s clear that he hasn’t had a whole lot of problems.  To me, the obvious answer is that string of consecutive hit songs from his first and second album mattered more than the color of his skin and the type of instrument that he plays.

  • Anonymous

    It was Big Time Rush, nobody’s acting is fantastic on that show.  The directors want everyone to be over the top, and have an acting style that stopped being popular in the 1980s. 

  • Anonymous

    I think it’s more of a problem with most Idol winners, not just the WGWG.  Actually all the winners other than Carrie and Kelly have shown significant decreases in sales with their second and third albums, including Ruben, Fantasia, and Jordin.  So, I don’t think it’s just a problem with the WGWG, I think it’s the effect of how much time since they were off the show for all winners.

    Carrie also showed a significant decrease with her second album, but that’s going to happen when your first one sells seven million copies.  

    But, your inclusion of Fantasia is a perfect example of what I was talking about.  She sold 1.7 million copies of her first album, did a good job of establishing her name in her genre, but the “only” sold around 600K copies of the second album. This might look like a failure to some in the bubble, but for a female r&b singer, who isn’t including elements of hip hop in her songs, it’s great.  What happened is that Fantasia made new fans, but she also lost a lot of her American Idol fans, who liked her on the show, but don’t like R&B music.  There was nothing that Fantasia could have or should have done to hold on to these people.  Her strengths and passion lies in making soul music, and that’s what she’s doing.

    Fantasia was going to lose those fans, just like Cook was going to lose those who don’t like alt. rock, or who were expecting him to produce songs like the ones that he sang while on AI.  Carrie lost ones who don’t like country, and so on and so on with all of the other idol alums, including the winners.

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

    Being a winner isn’t some magic guarantee of success

    Evidently. Especially in the case of a WGWG as the seasons show.

    Maybe I’m just not being clear, I thought I was.

    Neither was I, apparently. Because there being a girl in those seasons with a potential for more success is completely beside the point, they didn’t get enough of a fanbase to make them win so no point of pondering if they would have been able to keep said fanbase. On the other hand, there have been three WGWG WINNERS not being able to keep their fanbase that got them all the way to the win. What makes that particular type so attractive to vote-happy fingers when it’s not attractive post-show, that is the question. A question I have no answer for, btw, because I don’t see the attraction myself.

    If there wasn’t one, then why do you keep blaming the voters for choosing such “loser” WGWGs?  

    I don’t appreciate having words put in my mouth. I’m not blaming the voters: I’m fascinated with their choices and simultanous attachment (in-show) and lack thereof (post-show), and with the winner “loser” WGWG’s ability to go so far in the competition but nowhere in the real music industry.

    What I’m most curious about is 1) whether Scotty will go the Cook route or the country genre will make enough of a differece to give him a stable career, 2) whether the next winner, should he be a WGWG type, will go the same route as his predecessors, and 3) whether  the next winner, should he be a non WGWG type, will have any kind of viable success. 

    In short, I’m curious if, currently, it’s all winners Idol voters don’t care about in the long run, or it it’s just WGWG.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    On the other hand, there have been three WGWG WINNERS not being able to keep their fanbase that got them all the way to the win.

    The Idol winners and other successes who maintain fairly high sales on the second and later albums typically have substantial radio play in their home format, both from the prior album and for the lead single on each new album. Clarkson, Underwood, Daughtry? Radio hits. Underwood’s middle name may be “#1 on the country charts” (tough as hell to fit that on a driver’s license). Fantasia Barrino does quite well on her home chart. Clay Aiken may have been an exception in the earlier years of his career, but I’m saying that mostly because I don’t follow him and don’t really understand his numbers.

    What this hints to me, especially in the context that Idol alum who have strings of hits from both the debut album and the sophomore album still see a sophomore slump of ~50%, is that most Idol alum aren’t actually holding their fan bases tightly — regardless of gender, complexion, or propensity to whip out a guitar. They’re rebuilding or reactivating their fan bases each album cycle through radio play. 

  • Karen C

     This might look like a failure to some in the bubble, but for a female r&b singer, who isn’t including elements of hip hop in her songs, it’s great.

    Right, and this is similar to what is happening to David Cook right now,  where the sales from the last album might be considered moderately successful for the type of music he is doing.

    Fantasia was going to lose those fans, just like Cook was going to lose those who don’t like alt. rock, or who were expecting him to produce songs like the ones that he sang while on AI

    Right, the fans that remain now are really fans of their music.  The key now is to build their fanbases with people that really are fans of their original music. 

    This may be what did happen with Fantasia, because I believe her third album did better than the second.

  • Karen C

     Even Jordin Sparks’ second album didn’t do nearly as well as the first one, and she had the most pop success other than Kelly Clarkson, so it’s not just the WGWG.  

  • Anonymous

    The key now is to build their fanbases with people that really are fans of their original music. 

    This can’t be said enough.  It’s not just the case with idol alums, it’s the what happens in the real world.  Why would it be logical to expect anyone to keep buying  idol alum’s cds or going to their concerts, if that person doesn’t like the alum’s original songs.

  • judes

    Ha I just have to comment about WGWG -so does that mean Colton is WGWP [same as Elise-she's a white girl white pianist]

  • TheOther

    Which girl, in the seasons of Cook, Kris, or Lee, if she had won, would have broken the pattern you speak of, and been a huge success?

    None.

  • Anonymous

    “Right, and this is similar to what is happening to David Cook right now, where the sales from the last album might be considered moderately successful for the type of music he is doing”

    I’m not exactly sure how many albums Cook sold with the 2nd album but I think it was around 90K. To go from selling 1.25 mil to 90K is not a moderate success no matter what the genre. It’s a disaster. Fantasia went from selling 1.7 mil to 600K. Getting a album to gold is not a disaster.

    I’m always hoping the Idols achieve “Fantasia” level success with their 2nd ablum but it’s not easy. And I’m not very hopeful about the S8 Idols so far either. But I’m starting to think that Scotty may actually have a shot at a decent career. The trick is knowing who you are and connecting with your genre. Idol fanbases just eventually wither away.

    So Scotty may be the WGWG who makes it all the way (we’ll know in 2014). ;)

  • iani

    “Being a winner isn’t some magic guarantee of success

    Evidently. Especially in the case of a WGWG as the seasons show.

     Compared to the female winners that’s a stark contrast.

    I’ve said on another thread, talking about DC, that in my opinion the music-industry has changed the “gear” pretty much after 2008-2009 when Katy Perry, Lady Gaga have come, followed by lots of indie-music; idols to be successful and have chance to compete with for radio-plays, they should come with material that follow somehow those sounds with catchy choruses, good messages for larger demos, certain pleasant words at the end of lines…As a side note, I was listening to a song a while ago, a good song overall, catchy chorus, but a certain word repeated in that chorus made me cringe at its sound: Unbreakable, Unbreakable…, I hate it…
    The female winners have had the right material plus their feminine charm, an easier way to promote them to different demographics, their faces in some magazines, Kelly and Jordin both divas on VH1, Fantasia had an autobiographical movie, Carrie is everywhere. Male winners before 2009 Ruben and Taylor had their success nothing substantial with second albums(not sure), same good period of time for David and Daughtry as a non-winner, after 2009 only struggles especially for DC, some for CD, Lee sold around 350K and got “erased” like 11years-1= 10 Idol winners. We’ll see how Kris and Adam as non-winner will do and Scotty with his second album.
    I think now it’s more about how the musical tone is for radio-acceptance, if you want to be part of you should take some notes, if you want go your own way take the risk and see, Adele for example. It’s what DC did with TLM, he turned off the radio to be free of any influences and did his own material with some help and matched not so much the PDs “musical template”. Hopefully he comes with some new material and gets a single on radio with more spins than he had with TLG.

    ETA:To go from selling 1.25 mil to 90K is not a moderate success no matter what the genre. It’s a disaster. Fantasia went from selling 1.7 mil to 600K. Getting a album to gold is not a disaster.

    Fantasia I think is mostly played on Urban with good spins, same for JH; DC, Daughtry, James, KC, Haley, Adam, Kris all for the evil-HAC; even to get there is pretty hard now, nothing compared with how was it before 2010 specific sounds for Pop and HAC, now what is on Pop is on HAC too, what it is meant to be for HAC is luck now. And only Kelly has the golden ticket for Pop right now and first place on both, the savior of the AI franchise and Carrie of course.
    DC has sold over 100K, (like 5 months ago 103K) and only with some 700 spins for TLG and maybe 400 for FIM.

    ” To go from selling 1.25 mil to 90K is not a moderate success no matter what the genre. It’s a disaster”

    A disaster for today’s state of general sale in the industry, no, a “nightmare” for him and his fans, yes, or maybe.

  • Tess

    In short, I’m curious if, currently, it’s all winners Idol voters don’t care about in the long run, or it it’s just WGWG.

    I don’t think any mathematician would be thrilled about using the variable you have given as an absolute in any formula derived to define recent Idol success.  The variable is much to broadstroke and doesn’t really define Cookie or Scotty since the true definition in the urban dictionary is a guy more suited to a coffee shop than a stage.  Actually, in truth this fits Lee better than anyone.  Cookie is a rocker, Kris is a hybrid and Scotty is all country.  Even season 11 singers don’t fit the mold since one is a Christian Rocker and the other is more about grit and blues.

    And, I for one actually think it is amazing that after 10 seasons anyone coming off of Idol is still able to formulate any type of career…what with an over-saturated market and many industry insiders feeling that a reality show winner is as poor a resume item as Disney mouseketeer or tweenie you tube heart-throb.

    And as much as I try to reconcile the fact that maybe someone else should have won the last four seasons I can’t wrap my head around the fact that most of the runner-ups haven’t done nearly as well as the winner, or else they are also struggling to keep a toe hold in a very competitive industry.  So far from season 10 it has been predominantly Scotty, season 9’s runner-up also lost their label as did season 7s #2 the 3rd and 4th place finishers in season 8 are without a label.  So if the “WGWG” hadn’t won who should have?

    Considering that there are hundreds of albums released every year and thousands of singles I actually think it is pretty amazing that “anyone” from Idol is still in the business.  What’s happened to the Voice, Rock Star, Country Star (Miranda’s gig), AGT, X-Factor (British Version), etc. got to show us for all the kids who ended up on 
    top.  ONLY a handful of them have really survived past their “BIG” entrances. 

  • Anonymous

    Ha I just have to comment about WGWG -so does that mean Colton is WGWP [same as Elise-she's a white girl white pianist]

    Speaking of Elise, whose home format would be Hot AC or Triple A, and we know that Triple A would ignore her.  So, she’d be on a format that has a smaller audience, and that doesn’t generally sell as much music as the pop format.  She’d also be in a format that unlike pop, relies on musical credibility, which takes time to establish, especially when the person is coming off of a reality show.

    She’s in the same boat that Crystal was in, except she has more of a chance of getting her music played on the radio.  

  • Anonymous

    The trick is knowing who you are and connecting with your genre. Idol fanbases just eventually wither away.

    I hate to say this, since nothing is impossible, but I think that this sentence should read that the trick is to connect with your genre with the First Album.  I’ve been trying to be optimistic, but I think that if AI alums don’t do this the first time around that it’s going to be almost impossible to launch the second album. 

    To be fair, I don’t know if Kelly totally did this with her first album, but what are the chances that an alum will land a song like Breakaway, that will be played in commercials well in advance of the second album coming out, or that that song will connect with people.

  • Incipit

    “I’m not exactly sure how many albums Cook sold with the 2nd album but I think it was around 90K.”

    Actually, jpfan2, nobody really knows for a fact.  The very last total we got for TLM was from Brian Mansfield – almost a month before Christmas,
    on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 “Brian Mansfield just did album sales update on USA today and included This Loud Morning at 103,000…so those of u who figured at least 100,000 were right.”

    But TLM is still selling on iTunes, Amazon and the rest, Regular and Deluxe – In and out of the Continental US – and nobody has sales numbers for the last four months. Makes it a little tough to do any pronouncements based on totals one doesn’t have….not that I would be a proponent of comparing where DCTR sales are now with TLM numbers for the first Five months, anyway. That’s just, odd. Too many variables. IMO.

    I know – it’s a handy way to keep track – the numbers are – if you have them, that is. Heh. My advantage to not being a NumberNerd is mainly the fact that I’m more interested in the Artists’s satisfaction with where they are professionally than I am with the Bean Counter’s happiness. I know it matters. It just doesn’t matter the most.

    IMO. Of Course.

  • http://twitter.com/tinawinabina Tinawina

    I hate to say this, since nothing is impossible, but I think that this
    sentence should read that the trick is to connect with your genre with
    the First Album. 

    You shouldn’t hate to say it, its true!

    My 2 cents on the discussion about second album sales drops…. it is there for everyone not named Kelly, winner or not. That is definitely not a WGWG thing. Isn’t that the case with UK XFactor contestants too? So it is a reality TV thing most likely. I would go so far as to say TV period… it is not like Miley is still selling records without her TV show.

    You get one record, hopefully cushioned with Idol generated sales, to make your mark. If you do well enough to get a second record, then you better have some hits on that too. After that the world will likely move on without you if they haven’t already. But being on Idol means you’ll still get to make a decent living for years even if your recording artist career falters, so in a way you are still better off IMO for having been on Idol. Ask Jordin Sparks.

    Anyway, there is nothing special about the WGWG winners post-Idol careers, they’ve actually been a bit all over the map. Cookie did pretty well all around on the first album, Kris less so but still had some success including a bigger hit that Cookie had, and Lee did very little. There really aren’t any parallels there in terms of idol fan support except for the law of diminishing returns. And until Kris is done we won’t know if he can have a successful 2nd album or not.

    ETA: I love love love Cookie, but 100K was not good. I can see why he could get a third shot at it but I’m not going to say it was a success.

  • Anonymous

    Well 100K is better than 90K.  Cook’s a talented guy and hopefully he’ll recover. But he’s proof positive that you can’t count on even a very big Idol fanbase. They all fade in the end.

  • Anonymous

    I can only speak for myself, but those that say you have to connect with your fan base genre are spot on. That’s why I think Scotty has a better chance than the prior three winners. The songs on his first album are exactly like the ones he sang on Idol…..and his next album will be, too. Given more time, it will probably be better. Love him or not….he delivered to his fans.

  • http://twitter.com/DorkAngel Goboywonder

    “… season 9’s runner-up also lost their label as did season 7s #2…”

     You know Tess, as difficult as it is for some people to wrap their heads around it, season 7’s #2 willingly chose not to renew his contract with his label.  Of course we now know why. Coincidentally, I think few would deny that season 7’s runner-up has actually done better since ditching his major record label. 

    “And as much as I try to reconcile the fact that maybe someone else
    should have won the last four seasons I can’t wrap my head around the
    fact that most of the runner-ups haven’t done nearly as well as the
    winner”

    I actually don’t feel there’s all that big a difference between what season 7’s #1 and #2 have accomplished. Initially, perhaps. But four years out the gate, not so much.

  • Anonymous

    Going back to the question that started this discussion (ie why do people vote WGsWGs to victory then apparently desert them afterwards), I think it’s important to recognise the divide between the show and the post-show career.

    People vote for who they like best on the show, for whatever reason (and in the case of Cook and Kris I think they put together pretty impressive bodies of work that showed smart strategy). But after the show, people buy the music they like. Simple as that. Post-show sales have nothing to do with placing on the show; why should anyone be obligated to buy the music of someone they voted for?

    I agree with elliegrll that the first album should disregard any attempt to pander to the voters’ expectations. That first flush of media interest and promotion should be used to establish a distinct musical persona that can attract fans who will stick around because they like the music.

  • http://twitter.com/BazzleFjsm Bazzle

    lol! American Peidol… o heejun. Everyone needs to cut the judges some slack. Slezak slams them every single week. It’s like they can never do the right thing. They are also human beings that have their own opinions. I for one thought none of their standing o’s were too unjustified. The ones he thought didn’t deserve a standing I did, like Heejun. I wouldn’t have given Jessica a standing over him even though she did sing technically better… she didn’t move me as much. just my opinion. Colton gets credit for being emotional and Heejun doesn’t just cos he wasn’t on pitch for some notes. Well Colton’s first half seemed just as off pitch to me.

  • Anonymous

    I think that this whole WGWG meme is inherently flawed. For instance, where does Jordin Sparks fall into the whole debate? Or is she just left out of the equation altogether because it potentially disproves the theory that a young, female, non-white, Pop singer will automatically be more successful than a WGWG, and will instantly be the saving grace of American Idol?

    Jordin released her debut album in November 2007, and to-date it has sold approximately 1,045,000 copies, with a peak of #10. David Cook released his album in November 2008, and to-date it has sold approximately 1,325,000 copies, with a peak of #3. When you factor in that album sales decreased about 12% in the intervening year, and the fact that Jordin had two huge Pop singles to drive sales, as compared to Cook’s two moderate HAC hits, Cook appears to have had a measurably larger invested fanbase coming off of Idol.

    Moving on to their second albums, Jordin’s was released in July, 2009, with opening week sales of 48,000, a peak of #7 and current totals of 177,000. David Cook’s was released in June/July 2011 with opening week sales of 46,000, a peak of #7 and approximate current sales of 103,000. Album sales have decreased by about 13% in each of the two years between their respective releases, so for comparative purposes, Cook’s sales become 59,000 opening week, and 132,000 total. Very comparable, IMO. And again, it is worth noting that Jordin had the benefit of releasing her 2nd album only 2 years after her first album, and had 3 radio singles from her first album to remain in the public eye, whereas Cook had 3 years between albums and only 2 radio singles off of the first album. I also think that Battlefield, Jordin’s lead single off of her 2nd album had a lot more radio play and support than Cook’s TLG?

    OBVIOUSLY Jordin has historically had much, much more success with her singles on Pop radio than Cook, but overall I would say that they probably have similar-sized dedicated fanbases. If Cook and his label ever get their acts together and release a great single, and it becomes a hit, I think that it might prove that his fanbase is a bit larger? One great song, one big hit, is all that it would take for Cook, or any other once popular Idol to come roaring back.

    Basically it’s not that all of the Idol’s not named Daughtry, Carrie and Kelly have done so terribly, it’s that those three have done so very,very exceptionally well. I guess I’d rather celebrate their successes than vilify the others. Here’s hoping that this year’s winner is a huge success as well, whether he/she is a WGWG, OR a big-voiced Diva.

  • Valentin432

    Of course it’s about getting radio hits and the fact that people are holding that against some of the idols is sort of a joke. Producing hit singles is a goal, if you can’t get your music to be played on radio then you won’t stay relevant for long and that’s basically what happen to all these guys.

    I also love the memo, that some idol got lucky because she/he got a hit song.
    It’s not luck, Kelly has had 10 platinium recods, it’s not one hit song, if she didn’t have Breakaway, she still would have had Since U Been Gone, MLWSWY or Miss Independent and her voice and persona was an integral parts of those records unless you think that Lisa Tucker or Katie Stevens would have the same type of success singing the same songs.
    Same thing for Daughtry or Carrie on country radio or Fantasia on Urban radio.

    Yes, Fantasia is a much more successfull idol than any of the WGWG, selling 400k with her grammy winning third album is a great result, she’s a stapple of her genre/format and there’s no possible comparison with Coook who has had a rough time getting radio play or recognition at all.

    Jordin is the least successfull of the 4 female winners and she still got more radio bit radio hits than any of them.

    The memo that it just isn’t like it was before just got denied vigorously with Scotty going platinium, this time last year, people were dismissing the poor sales because there was no way Idol could produce decent sales anymore

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/IKAPTNAJ2NDD2P5QWGFWGEY6ME Mary

    You are most likely right. I voted for Scotty last year because I thought he was the best. I don’t like country, so I didn’t buy his CD. But I am cheering his success.

    I voted for and bought David Cooks CD’s because I like rock. His type of music is kind I listen to most.

    People will vote for and maybe buy music for the contestant they think is best that season.

  • Valentin432

    People who buy the music post show are buying based on what these contestants do on the show, Cook sold 1.3M his first time around because his fans were interested in his music based on his performances during his season.
    The position they come in counts, you just need to do a total of record solds based on their exit number and you’ll see a positive correlation, the later you get out, the most albums you sell.

  • Incipit

    “People who buy the music post show are buying based on what these
    contestants do on the show, Cook sold 1.3M his first time around because
    his fans were interested in his music based on his performances during
    his season. “

    Valentin432, maybe that generalization is true for a number of people – it was not true for me.  It is not true for a large number of long time fans that I know.  I bought post show based on the music Cook had done Pre- Show. What I saw on Idol was the talent and versatility, even with the wretched themes and narrow choices – but the voice that caught me was from the auditions – and I tracked backwards from there. Idol was as artificial as it gets. Buying the Idol influenced album is support – so there will be live shows…and that’s the goal. Devious Baby Boomers – we plan ahead.

    I didn’t care if David never sang “Always Be My Baby” or Roberta Flack – or any of the Idol constrained choices again – not even that major piece of cheese – The Coronary Song – even though his voice and talent managed to make it seem real.

    I was waiting for songs like “Straight Ahead”, and covers like “Hunger Strike” and “Man in the Box” – nothing like what David had to do on Idol. And, on DCTR, I got them.  My fav song from DCTR is the hidden track “Kiss on the Neck”. On the Tour, I got even more.

    This last tour had many more great live performances from TLM and rocking covers – none of which would ever have been done on Idol for a competition. And I’m still supporting…but never based on what was done on the show. That was nothing more than an introduction.

    JMO. Of Course.

  • Karen C

    Still, Fantasia’s second album sold about a million less than her first, as did David Cooks.  The point is that just about all the Idol winners have had significant drops in sales for their second album.  And actually, the only idol winner to have significant increases in sales is Kelly Clarkson.

    The other thing that even though the winners have had varying degrees of success, they are all still in the music industry, and this is true for the runners up and many of the finalists also.

    And as for this years winner, regardless of genre, if they sell platinum it will be considered a success.

  • Karen C

    I agree with you, in fact, although the show made me interested in his music, I feel I truly became a fan after hearing his original music.  I did like him more than anyone else that had been on the show, and liked his voice and the type of music he was doing.   But it is his original music that has kept me a fan for 4 years, and will for many years to come.  

    To some extent, though,  I think there were some people who bought the first album, and even some that went to his concerts, expecting more of the type of music that he did on Idol, and that is in part why there was a drop. 

    The key now is to maintain and  build his fanbase with people who like his original music.

  • Anonymous

    The natural “homes” for the WGWG’s are AAA, alternative, and active rock.  Those radio formats refuse to play Idols.  How well would Carrie or Kelly have done if country and top 40 had refused to play their songs?  Daughtry was very successful when they had HAC pretty much to themselves and their sound was allowed on pop, but they are struggling a bit now, too.  I think some of the Idols might eventually get radio play on their natural formats; but if they do, it will be years from now after they really establish themselves.  Haley, Elise, and Phillip are going to face the same struggles.  It really isn’t just a guy problem, it’s a genre problem in my opinion. 

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

    Eilonwy said:The Idol winners and other successes who maintain fairly high sales on the second and later albums typically have substantial radio play in their home format, both from the prior album and for the lead single on each new album.

    Fair point, but then why aren’t these guys able to have substantial radioplay despite having the Idol popularity? Daughtry is a WGWG and he was able to. And, in case of Kris and Lee, they were pretty much shrugged off right after Idol, as their uninspiring CD sales showed. Cook at least managed to ride his Idol win, the other two didn’t and that’s a head-scratcher.

    Tess said:The variable is much to broadstroke and doesn’t really define Cookie or Scotty since the true definition in the urban dictionary is a guy more suited to a coffee shop than a stage.  Actually, in truth this fits Lee better than anyone.  Cookie is a rocker, Kris is a hybrid and Scotty is all country. 

    Urban dictionary? They pull descriptions out of their asses and are 3/4 trolls, my  definition is as right as theirs. In the context of Idol, my definition is “a young white male with an instrument playing rock rock/pop music” and WGWG is simply shorter. I agree that Scotty’s genre makes him different, but if in 3 years he flops as hard as Cook, my definition will change to include him in the bracket.

    Karen C said: Even Jordin Sparks’ second album didn’t do nearly as well as the first one, and she had the most pop success other than Kelly Clarkson, so it’s not just the WGWG.  

    Oh, that’s right, I always keep forgetting Jordin. I just checked and her sophmore album sold 600k and spawned a BB top 10 single, so she’s doing no worse than Fantasia.

    opalruby said:People vote for who they like best on the show, for whatever reason (and in the case of Cook and Kris I think they put together pretty impressive bodies of work that showed smart strategy). But after the show, people buy the music they like. Simple as that. Post-show sales have nothing to do with placing on the show; why should anyone be obligated to buy the music of someone they voted for?

    So in other words American Idol has absolutely nothing in common with talent or musicality anymore and everything with the likability factor? I think I knew that and I think it’ll happen again this season. What mystifies me personally, however, is what makes those types so much likeable than others.

  • http://twitter.com/Justin_J9 Justin

    Daughtry is a failure of epic proportions i don’t know what you all are talking about. His lead single didn’t sell anything (including the album) and never cracked top 40 on pop radio. He is failing just as Cook last year, only falling from a higher place/position.

    Last time i checked freaking Train was still smashing so idk what his excuses are other than the fact that since first album he is very much on steep downfall just like any other WGWG.

    Scotty is in a market where you can still do well with the same sound that worked 30 years ago and you can be 50 and still be in (and he IS doing very traditional conservative country), so idk how is that a proof of american idol not being out of touch with current music market for years now.

    Other that that IA with everything in Valentin’s post. Kelly is the only one in 10 years who really made an impact in pop world. And she’s on top again this year.

  • Anonymous

    LOL, we are calling people failures based on one album or song?  Maybe you missed what happened with the group’s first two albums.

  • Valentin432

    I’m sure there a few people fan of Cook, that loved him based on his original music before Idol or because they love the music he produced after that.

    But it’s just a pure numbers game, when you go from 1.3M to 100K, there’s something seriously wrong that happened that you weren’t able to make your fans stick with you, no matter how many individual testemony we get about someone’s love for Cook music. And yes it’s different from going from 7M to 3M or 1.9M to 700k to 400k. 

    It’s not just about radio hits either, if he was such a god on stage, his neverending tour should have helped him get a consistent fanbase that would buy his album and come back for his show the next time around.

  • Anonymous

    Fair point, but then why aren’t these guys able to have substantial radioplay despite having the Idol popularity? Daughtry is a WGWG and he was able to. And, in case of Kris and Lee, they were pretty much shrugged off right after Idol, as their uninspiring CD sales showed. Cook at least managed to ride his Idol win, the other two didn’t and that’s a head-scratcher.  

    Someone already pointed out that David, Kris and Lee’s post idol experiences were very different, which doesn’t exactly support the point that you are making.  As Clay and Taylor showed, having big AI fanbases isn’t going to get anybody airplay, that’s not how the industry works.  And like Fantasia showed, having one isn’t going to get your music played outside of your format, even if you release a song like Believe, that would do well on AC.  

    I used Fantasia because she shows why PDs aren’t going to let idol popularity get them to play a song.  Right after AI an alum’s fanbase is made up of people a cross section of people, who all have different tastes in music.  Some listen to pop music, others rock or country, jazz or r&b.  These fans are fans of the reality show contestant, and aren’t really going to change their musical tastes, or start listening to certain radio stations just because their favorite person from a tv show sings that type of music, and radio PDs know this.

    But getting back to those three guys, David had good airplay for three songs, Kris for one (even though The Truth did reach 17 on its home chart), and Lee for none.  Kris also sold 1.7 million copies of his debut single, which doesn’t imply that he was written off right off of AI.  That song also reached some accomplishments that no debut single from an AI alum has ever recorded. 

    None of this is confusing to me, these are three different people, who had three different albums.   It’s only confusing if we ignore what actually happened with them, when they released those albums, or assume that they were supposed to get airplay just because they were on AI.

  • Incipit

    “The natural “homes” for the WGWG’s are AAA, alternative, and active
    rock.  Those radio formats refuse to play Idols.  How well would Carrie
    or Kelly have done if country and top 40 had refused to play their
    songs? “

    Oh, very good question, jinger03. If Country Radio Stations refused to play Scotty, or Lauren, or the long line of Idol contestants who sing country – where would they get new fans? How would they be heard, and generate sales of their music? Would everyone be telling them to go “Pop” so they could make a buck?  What if Top 40 was closed to them too? What would that leave besides concerts?

    Popular Terrestrial Radio has been working hard for years to make itself irrelevant to me, and lots of people like me – and finally HAC has turned into Top 40’s Younger Brother – and this has just happened lately. “what if that’s all there was?” isn’t really a rhetorical question any more.

    IMO.

    ETA: Active Rock may have played Daughtry a little in 2006, Valentin432 – but that just points out the difference between then and now….Six Years Later. In 2012, it appears to be different… and 2012 is the marketplace people are trying to survive in…where even HAC as a place to play any Rock is shrinking. I have seen plenty of posts about this across the web.

    “Come Back to Me (You), Light On or The Last Goodbye had very little chance of getting airplay on those formats, “

    Right, those songs weren’t released to those formats. But “Bar ba Sol” was – and that’s rock. It’s a bad a$$ rock song, not some homogenized version. So why send to a format that’s going to ignore you? I don’t have Daughtry’s Hard Rock numbers – I don’t follow them that closely – but I know they are shrinking too.

  • Valentin432

    Active rock played Daughtry when his album came out in 2006.
     
    If you’re successfull people radio won’t deny your material. I just don’t think the WGWG released anything that could be played by rock or alternative radio. Come Back to You, Light On or The Last Goodbye had  very little chance of getting airplay on those formats, same thing for Kris or Lee’s single.

  • Karen C

    The natural “homes” for the WGWG’s are AAA, alternative, and active rock.  Those radio formats refuse to play Idols.  How well would Carrie or Kelly have done if country and top 40 had refused to play their songs?  Daughtry was very successful when they had HAC pretty much to themselves and their sound was allowed on pop, but they are struggling a bit now, too.  I think some of the Idols might eventually get radio play on their natural formats; but if they do, it will be years from now after they really establish themselves.  Haley, Elise, and Phillip are going to face the same struggles.  It really isn’t just a guy problem, it’s a genre problem in my opinion.

    I think this is the biggest problem facing this type of artist.  The other problem is that though even HAC did play some rock in the past, they are much less likely to  now.   This is why I think David Cook and even Daughtry are having more problems with radio play.  

  • Anonymous

    It’s not just about radio hits either, if he was such a god on stage, his neverending tour should have helped him get a consistent fanbase that would buy his album and come back for his show the next time around.

    The radio hits would have given him the chance  to expand his fanbase beyond the idol crowd, and cushion the normal and expected loss of AI fans.

    But, it’s not just about whether someone has a hit, it is about the music.  Eventually, people will buy the type of music that they like, and even if David is still their favorite former reality show contestant, they aren’t going to buy his music just because of that.

  • Karen C

    He did have a consistent enough fanbase to be able to coheadline then headline a tour.    People are still buying his albums, still going to shows enough for him to sustain a career.

  • Anonymous

    If you’re successfull people radio won’t deny your material

    Which is why these stations didn’t play Daughtry’s Renegade?  And why Fantasia couldn’t get airplay outside of the Urban formats, despite her popularity.  And of course, Crystal had a lot of problems getting Triple A and Hot AC stations to play her music.

    Not exactly the same as Kris being the first male winner to have a song go top ten on Pop, or the first alum period to have a debut single go top ten on three different charts.

    Of course this begs the question what are you measuring success by,  because it’s almost like you are saying that if these people do well on radio, then radio PDs can’t help but play their music.

  • http://twitter.com/Justin_J9 Justin

    Reading comprehension problems much? I’m calling him a flop based on whole picture and trajectory since AI, not based on 1 song.

    It’s not just album sales and radio play with Daughtry. He has not build a touring fan base either. Daughtry’s tours are shrinking exponentially just like his sales are and now he’s playing for 2-3k iirc, which could fit in a small theater.

    All the successful ‘rock’ artists are building touring audiences with additional albums, most even if they release a weaker album sales-wise. Daughtry’s trajectory is unhealthy in this aspect (a big one for artists like him) too and i’m sure his label and management are noticing it.

    Like i said Daughtry has very typical WGWG trajectory except his first album did amazing so he’s falling from 4x platinum not 1x platinum. But he at least got those 3 albums so i’ll give him that. But he lost most of his audience along the way and now has the typical idol crowd left. He’s few months 1 album away from being irrelevant just like Cook.

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

    David, Kris and Lee’s post idol experiences were very different, which doesn’t exactly support the point that you are making. 

    Post-Idol experiences of every single constestant are different. Always. There’s a common thread in these three, though: similar wheelhouse, win then flop. In my opinion that’s no coincidence but a pattern and if P2 or Colton manage to win, they’ll follow this pattern.

  • Anonymous

    “I agree that Scotty’s genre makes him different, but if in 3 years he
    flops as hard as Cook, my definition will change to include him in the
    bracket.”

     If Scotty fails then he becomes a WGWG but if he succeeds then he isn’t. OK then. So basically you change your theory to fit the evidence? Experimental scientists would not be happy with you, lol!

  • Anonymous

    “Daughtry is a failure of epic proportions””

    Epic ;0.  Right now album #3 has sold 400K+. It is likely that over a period of time it will get to 500K (it’s already been certified gold). The album is still on the BB200. Obviously, our definitions of epic vary.

  • Anonymous

    A lot of acts who have any amount of popularity have only one or two albums that do well, then slowly decline. Its not just Idol alumni. That’s just the real world. Most only get one album before the rapid decline. Fan bases, regardless of who they are, are fickle.

  • Valentin432

    Daughtry first single of his last album is Crawling back to You, that’s the song he filmed a video for and promoted on tv shows, I see no reasons why radio should be expected to play another of his songs.
    Not even extremely successfull artists release two songs at the same time and get airplay.

    Fantasia is a urban artist, she’s one of the top artists of  that genre, she gets recognition for that, and it’s an achievement.
    If Cook or Allen or Dewyze had the same status as Fantasia even 2 years after the show (let alone 7 years as it’s her case), then they would be very happy and with good reasons but they’re not anywhere close of being the top artists in their genre like Fantasia or Mandisa are.

    When you’re trying to get HAC, Pop airplay then sales for singles count. That’s what makes radio people interested in your material independently of wheter you’re a big name or not. Fun, Gotye, The Wanted were all unknown artists in the US a few months ago, their songs stuck in the top 100 (or even top 20) of itunes for weeks that’s what made PD’s interested even tough they aren’t what they use to play.
    The itunes performance of The Last Goodbye, THe Truth, Alright With Me or Sweet Serendipity show a lack of interest from the buying public.

  • Anonymous

    Post-Idol experiences of every single constestant are different. Always. There’s a common thread in these three, though: similar wheelhouse, win then flop. In my opinion that’s no coincidence but a pattern and if P2 or Colton manage to win, they’ll follow this pattern.

    David’s 1.2 million albums sold, successful tour, and three singles that did well on his home format wouldn’t label him as a flop.  And Kris’ top ten hit on multiple formats wouldn’t support your claim that he didn’t get any airplay.  It would also make him compare favorably to Adam Lambert, who you labeled as successful, and the amount of airplay that he received.

    Cook’s journey would also be similar to Jordin Sparks’, who isn’t a white guy with a guitar, but who sold about the same number of debut albums as David did, only slightly less, had at least three top ten hits on pop, but  who ran into trouble with her second album, despite a top ten lead off single.  Jordin is a another great example of idol alums not releasing albums that have a coherent sound.  

    To take yur theory seriously, we’d have to ignore all of the second album drops of every idol alum who isn’t named Kelly.  And we’d also have to ignore the fact that the successful idol alums have been the ones who have been able to release songs that appeal to people beyond the idol bubble, and the ones who have continued to release these songs.

  • Anonymous

    I’d include BTIKM in your list of singles who struggle on iTunes. And obviously TVOL is showing how small Kris’ Idol fanbase is. Adam needs a hit with single#2 and radio needs to play TVOL or album sales in May won’t be pretty.

  • Karen C

     
     There’s a common thread in these three, though: similar wheelhouse, win then flop. In my opinion that’s no coincidence but a pattern and if P2 or Colton manage to win, they’ll follow this pattern. .

    And if Jessica or Hollie wins, based on what is happening with Jordin, they may follow the same pattern also. 

  • Anonymous

    Reading comprehension problems much? I’m calling him a flop based on whole picture and trajectory since AI, not based on 1 song.

    No reading comprehension problems, I just wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, and did not believe that you were saying that the second album having three top ten hits on Hot AC, and selling more than a million copies means that Daughtry is an epic failure.   So I jumped to the wrong conclusion. You probably should have highlighted your worries about the second album too, since the first paragraph was about how his single didn’t sell anything, not even the album, which wouldn’t be the case with “No Surprise”.

    The songs on the second album didn’t have the legs that the songs on the first album had, but there is also a huge difference between being able to release three singles from an album, and releasing five or six songs, which is what Daughtry did with the debut album.

    All the successful ‘rock’ artists 

    For the most part, Daughtry’s albums haven’t really been rock, that’s one reason why rock stations stopped playing his songs.  This is the most rock friendly album that the group has ever released, while the others have been very Hot AC/soft rock, with very poppy hooks and choruses.  Chris Daughtry also loves his ballads.

    As someone said earlier, Daughtry’s album wouldn’t still be in the Billboard top 200, if they weren’t connecting with people.

  • Anonymous

    Daughtry is one of the three most successful artists Idol has ever produced. He’s having issues five years into his career struggling with getting CHR radio play. But again anyone who comes close to a gold album six years after their season is doing fine.

    I don’t see much connection between him and Cook mostly because Daughtry had some huge hit songs on CHR. Cook never came close. Daughtry can write songs that connect with Pop. But obviously no one stays on top forever.

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

    True, no doubt. I’m eagerly awaiting new data, but to be honest, I don’t think Jessica or Hollie can win. They lack one major ingredient: a dick. I hope I’m wrong, though.

  • Karen C

    Ummm, David Cook’s acoustic EP This Quiet Night was released on Itunes and is now #30 on Itunes pop.  

  • Karen C

    Just because an artist’s music isn’t pop doesn’t mean they don’t have an audience.

  • http://twitter.com/Justin_J9 Justin

    not believe that you would say that the second album having three top ten hits on Hot AC, and selling more than a million copies means that Daughtry is an epic failure.

     
    I didn’t, hence you couldn’t quote me on it directly and just assumed things and put them in my mouth. *cliks flag*

  • Valentin432

     I don’t get why yo’re using itunes pop numbers, he’s n°177 on itunes overall album rankings and it was released 4 days ago, that’s a very poor performance.

  • Anonymous

    Daughtry first single of his last album is Crawling back to You, that’s the song he filmed a video for and promoted on tv shows, I see no reasons why radio should be expected to play another of his songs.
    Not even extremely successfull artists release two songs at the same time and get airplay.

    The statement was that radio wouldn’t ignore successful artists.  Daughtry has been successful, RCA promoted a song to rock radio this time, rock stations were not playing the song that was released to Hot AC, so following the statement that was laid out, rock stations should have automatically played Renegade.  That didn’t happen.

    Going by the same hypothesis, Fantasia was very popular after her season, and so was her coronation song.  That song was a good fit for AC radio, but that format ignored the song, because of Fantasia’s race.  So, there are obviously exceptions to the meme that radio stations won’t ignore successful idol alums.

  • Incipit

    ” David Cook’s acoustic EP This Quiet Night was released on Itunes and is now #30 on Itunes pop.  “

    Thanks, Karen C! Much less frustrating topic than stoneheaded radio PD’s with their Catch 22 Philosophy, and annoying (to me) Top 40 Music!

    This Quiet Night is now listed as one of the News & Noteworthy CDs on iTunes Pop. (TQN is also listed under New & Noteworthy on iTunes Canada…and has been released in Germany [3/30/12] and the UK. [Last night, with the US Release])

    TQN also has a banner posted in the News & Noteworthy section of Pop.

    ETA: And it’s a big banner, thanks Cookistas http://twitpic.com/94yeey

    Not bad for zero advance publicity.

  • Karen C

    It was just released today, at midnight.  

  • Valentin432

    Daughtry was very successfull his first time, rock radio played his songs then. His profile has diminished since then and I see no reason why rock radio would start playing an artist who isn’t promoting that single and who isn’t such a star that he must be played.

    I don’t see why Fantasia should have been played on AC, that format doesn’t usually play Urban artists and I doubt she was heavily promoted there since her single was well received on her core format.

  • Valentin432

    On itunes, it shows released  on March 30, 2012, maybee they got it wrong then.

  • Tess

    My favorite band has sold 250 million albums of which 75 million are certified and other than one song they have never released a single.  One album charted for 700 plus weeks and after almost 50 years its surviving members still have careers and are touring. And I’m always amazed at how many times I flip on my radio during long distance car treks and some obscure station in Po-Dunk USA is playing their music amid the fluff that is today’s top 40.

    I also find it interesting that when I check year end album sales and cumulative album sales how many artists are selling tons of albums without me ever hearing them on my local inane radio stations.  And I’m also surprised at how many people turn out for concerts in my city of artists who I have never heard of…even though their fans can recite every one of their songs by memory…and this occurs while the billboard darlings can barely fill scaled back arenas.

    I think we would all be overwhelmingly surprised by how well, financially, many Idol alumni are doing in the real world even though their numbers seem highly insignificant to us.  I’m sure someone like, say Crystal, is doing a hundred times better in the income department then she did pre-Idol and we never hear much about her anymore.  And Archie.  I bet he raked in the dough from his 2 month excursion to the Philippines, and look at SuBo…she is set for life and her songs have never made it to conventional radio.  

    Maybe these Idolettes are “lacking” within the limited confines of the bubble but I think I would gladly change financial places with almost all of them.  Opening those little royalty envelops every month has to be a lot more fun then seeing what is on my paycheck after 50 years of sweat and toil.

  • Karen C

    I see that,  I’m not sure why it says that.  I think it was released on Amazon today too :)

  • Anonymous

    So in other words American Idol has absolutely nothing in common with talent or musicality anymore and everything with the likability factor? I think I knew that and I think it’ll happen again this season. What mystifies me personally, however, is what makes those types so much likeable than others.

    When I said that “people vote for who they like best on the show”, I wasn’t  thinking only in terms of ‘likability’, but also who the voters are impressed by in terms of skill, vocal style, song choice, etc. (That’s why I noted that David Cook and Kris Allen played the game well and produced strong bodies of work.)

    But just because you think someone deserved to win a reality show (or you wanted to see more performances from them so kept voting for them) doesn’t mean you will buy their post-show music, particularly if you’re not a fan of their natural genre. Of course there will usually be initial sales that are the result of the reality show fandom, but there should be no shame attached to losing those artificial fans over time. As for not gaining enough new fans to compensate, that seems to be a function of insufficient radioplay and public awareness, rather than subpar musical output. And the music is the only factor in that equation over which the artists have control.

  • Incipit

     Not sure why either, except that a poster from Germany informed us that TQN was released on iTunes and Amazon in Germany on March 30, 2012.

    Then on Friday a poster from the UK added the release date for This Quiet Night in the US and the UK –  Midnight last night.

    Is it a terrible pun to say that the Cook Camp kept that very Quiet? *snerk*

  • Anonymous

    I just checked and her sophmore album sold 600k and spawned a BB top 10 single, so she’s doing no worse than Fantasia.

    600K worldwide, because she broke in the UK on her first album (where Alexandra Burke and others have also done exceptionally well).  In the US, she’s sold about 180K compared to her platinum plus debut, which is only slightly less severe a drop-off than Cook’s with that top 10 pop hit, which he didn’t have.  You have to compare apples to apples.

    As for voting vs. buying:  AI finalists build coalitions for a number of reasons.  I think Sparks and Allen both benefited from having a significant number of voters who found their respective runners-up unpalatable as the winner, and who were probably never that excited about their own material.  However, they also had coalitions based on their performances that didn’t necessarily reflect the material that they put out post show.  Sparks put out teen pop and R&B mid-tempos, not I Who Have Nothing or A Broken Wing big tear-jerkers.  I’d argue she went platinum almost entirely on radio, as the stories when her album dropped were all about how Tattoo was doing so much better than her sales.  Allen put out a thoughtful, slightly R&B tinged song that actually did seem to fit him, but it wasn’t exactly Heartless or She Works Hard for the Money for the people who voted based on those performances.  Again, same story:  LLWD was doing better than the album.  I think he might have fought himself to a gold album if he’d had another well-performing single.

  • Anonymous

    I’d love to know how it’s decided who gets the banners on iTunes. I assume the label pays for them but folks post that is not true and Apple has some say in it. I’m not exactly sure how many EPS they’ll sell but it keeps his name out there.

  • Karen C

    I am also finding there are fans of the show that simply don’t buy the albums from the shows, even if it is the type of music they listen to.  I have personally spoken to several people who are fans of the show that do not even know that their favorites released any original music after the show that were interested in the albums after I told them about them. Probably the common thread among these fans is that they were not active in the Idol forums online, and also, they do not listen to the radio, so maybe some more promotion during the show itself would reach those fans.  

  • Anonymous

    No way does Jessica flop. The only times in the past I have been this sure of someone from idol having success is Carrie and Daughtry.

  • Incipit

    “I’d love to know how it’s decided who gets the banners on iTunes.”

    jpfan2, I was just reading an article about that – I searched through my history and found it – it’s from 2010 – but I haven’t seen anything to contradict it, and it’s a good pro/con snapshot, I think:

    How to Get Banners on iTunes.

    They don’t sell the banners, and the Labels can’t buy them, they want to make “unbiased recommendations”, they say. – excerpt:

    In order to gain visibility on the front page of iTunes, labels must
    negotiate with Apple…exclusive access to new songs, special discount pricing or
    additional material such as interviews. … One industry executive told the Wall Street Journal – during a week when an album is featured on the iTunes home page it
    can sell about five times more copies on average than it does when the
    album isn’t featured.

    The interesting thing at the end of the article is how Apple is selling so much more than just music on it’s Home Page now, TV Shows, Movies, Games – there’s a three to six months lead time for discussions to get that banner.

    (And TQN is up to #23 at iTunes Pop.)

  • escape

    No way does Jessica flop. The only times in the past I have been this sure of someone from idol having success is Carrie and Daughtry.

    Carrie Underwood and Chris Daughtry came off Idol 6 – 7 years ago.  The music scene has changed a lot since that time.  I don’t Jessica would even win Idol at this point. I think Elise is the strongest singer among the girls.

  • windmills

    Moria Polonius: Fair point, but then why aren’t these guys able to have substantial radioplay despite having the Idol popularity? Daughtry is a WGWG and he was able to. And, in case of Kris and Lee, they were pretty much shrugged off right after Idol, as their uninspiring CD sales showed. Cook at least managed to ride his Idol win, the other two didn’t and that’s a head-scratcher.

    IMO, it was somewhat a case of diminishing returns for pop/rock guys whose mainstream home format is HAC. Chris Daughtry was the most successful at penetrating radio and selling based on that, followed by Cook, then Kris, then Lee. 

    I also think HAC Idol saturation may be having an effect on how the singles do out of the gate. I also think to a lesser extent, the Country format is feeling Idol saturation, which is part of why despite his sales success, Scotty’s airplay is around the level of what Kellie got during her debut album era. Too, I can’t speak as much for HAC but starting in 2010, the country format has gotten crazy crowded and with more acts going to radio and making their cases, radio’s not as likely to give Idols that foot in the door based on sales.

  • iani

    I don’t see much connection between him and Cook mostly because Daughtry
    had some huge hit songs on CHR. Cook never came close. Daughtry can
    write songs that connect with Pop
    -jpfan2

    Well, not anymore Daughtry-the “pop” artist, he was back in 2007 when more than club sounds or simply rhythmic sounds were played on radio. He  sold 4M in a year with 3 maybe 4 songs on pop, David 1M in 2009 with 2 singles on Pop pretty high on charts. PDs to keep the rhythm on pop radios are fishing abroad too for successful, haunting sounds nor necessarily for the artist; everything is now on beats, haunting choruses or “clean” and sweet ones and to some degree if the artist is “hot” at the moment.

    I think to be successful today and sell a lot at least with singles, you should have your songs spun on Pop and HAC regularly and even Alternative and AAA, it’s what Adele has had, Coldplay too and now Fun. and Gotye, to sweep the charts. Rihanna, Bruno have had the help of Urban too, so only to be a pop artist is not enough either to sell albums and get new fans of different demos. HAC is the format of mixed of other formats(pop and alt, mostly) but unfortunately the power of HAC radio-stations is not anymore what it was some few years ago, pop ones have stated to “absorb” them. If the song has more than 5K spins it might be a moderate successful one in term of sale, JMO.
    I think not even the ratio of number of radio-spins/sale is not the same like back to their first albums(DC and Daughtry), you could sale more with less spins back then. The reality is and sometimes unfortunately, to do music for a living today is more about “what it is hot” than “what I feel”, the “feel” should be adjusted to fit the “hot” to a degree.

    ETA: “What is Triple A?”

    It is another radio format-Adult Album Alternative, music of Adele fits very well there as an example.

  • Anonymous

    DaisyMagnolia,
    I agree with the first two statements. While I like to listen to most of the winners on the radio, I have only bought David Cook’s both albums. I have been watching AI since 2006. Most other winners’ or runner-ups’ music is not quite exactly what I want to listen to from an album, even though their music is OK or even enjoyable on the radio. Since I really dislike country, last year’s winners were out of even consideration for me, even though I think they are good singers.

    As for the last comment: that is not exactly true, since that one make-up-wearing screaming poseur has (for some strange reason) had several other releases after the first album: remixes and a live-dvd-cd.  TOTALLY UNFAIR from the label towards the others IMO. I read somewhere – actually here on MJ’s Blog – that the label invested much money on promoting him and it didn’t pay offas they had hoped, and therefore they tried to get the money back with those releases. Don’t know if that is true. However, it still is totally unfair towards the others.

    Once again, remember that David Cook has three platinum records and a gold one. Plus he has sold millions of copies on iTunes etc. And he broke many records on Billboard lists etc. And his first post-Idol album was the 13th best-selling album of the year in question.

  • Anonymous

    TOTALLY UNFAIR from the label towards the others IMO.

    It is not unfair for a label to release additional material for an artist if they think the artist’s existing fans and/or potential new fans will pay for it.

    Remixes are cheap.  The writers have been paid, the tracks are already there, and the producers doing the remixing can often work quickly.  Low-risk, potentially decent reward.

    Record labels are profit-taking enterprises.  So they’ll focus on opportunities that have good returns.  And if they each make extra money on one artist’s output, that can increase their respective development budgets for their entire rosters.

  • Anonymous

     The music scene has changed a lot but Jessica fits right into todays music scene.

  • revcat

    I don’t know anything about the music business except for the fact that it is a business. There is nothing “unfair” about marketing remixes, DVDs or whatever. What seems unfair to me is the undisputed fact that many pop singers these days can’t even sing when, as any viewer of talent shows like Idol know, there are so many people who can sing; it’s not like good singers are in short supply. Ah well, guess that’s life.

  • Anonymous

    Sexiness and a compelling vocal tone is what sells pop music, being a good singer is almost irrelevant. Otherwise, there is the singer-sowriter type, but I don’t think that it is what Jessica is about.

  • Anonymous

    What is Triple A? I am from Finland.

  • Karen C

    A platinum album and platinum singles isn’t flopping.  Which might be what an idol winner can expect regardless of genre. If Jessica does win and does better than that, and sells like Carrie and Daughtry does, she’ll be one of the exceptions, along with them.

  • Karen C

    I think to be successful today and sell a lot at least with singles, you should have your songs spun on Pop and HAC regularly and even Alternative and AAA, it’s what Adele has had, Coldplay too and now Fun. 

    I think that this is one mistake that RCA made with David Cook, by not releasing the singles to AAA and Alternative in addition to HAC, and possibly releasing the album as Adult Alternative and not pop.  Though they probably didn’t think AAA or Alternative would play someone from Idol, but I believe that this might be who they should market the music to.

  • Karen C

    AAA is Adult Album Alternative.  There’s a lot of alternative rock on that format now.  

  • iani

    Oh well, can you imagine a song like GTTG sent to AAA even TMO; HTB, PH to HAC(instead of TLG), or Circadian, REM, RHWY to an Alt, and not being an AI-winner?! They should have sent 2 songs at the time to different formats, like they did with DCTR and Daughtry, because you never know, maybe somebody(PD) would like it and spread the word to other collaborators from the same format, the luck factor should be considered somehow if it doesn’t request lots of money. They spent a little with FIM and maybe it sold 1oo-2oo or more albums.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MV64BS4FSISCASL4P656RXAFYQ Kayla

    had several other releases after the first album: remixes and a live-dvd-cd.   TOTALLY UNFAIR 

    I would actually say that the opposite is true, that RCA felt that there was a high enough level of interest in Adam to actually make a profit with interim remix EPs, acoustic EP and concert DVD releases. He was a test case, and he proved it was possible. And it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if wasn’t Adam who was pushing hard for those releases. We know from interviews that he was the driving force behind sending his songs to remixers, and that he had (frustratingly control freak-y according to the RCA mod on his official site who moaned about how many back and forth edits he subjected them to) creative control over both the acoustic EP and DVD. 

    Now it looks like additional releases besides the CD may become the norm rather than the exception, like for example Cook’s acoustic EP on sale right now. I think Adam successfully opened the door for that.

  • Anonymous

    Good post – and Lambert’s acoustic EP is, IMO, a worthy release just on its own.  The vocals are gorgeous and the fact that they’re not studio versions makes them even more impressive.

    Will check out Cook’s now.

  • Anonymous

    Whether it remix EPs, Concert DVD, ringtones, or an acoustic EP, it’s something that can be sold not only to fans in the States, but also around the world. It doesn’t take a whole lot of money to make them and you don’t have to sell an enormous amount to make a profit. 

  • Anonymous

    Lol, because MJs blog has RCA executives spilling profit/loss information for idols. The music business isn’t predicated on “fairness” based on how someone finished on a tv show. The sooner that idea gets thrown out, the better. Idol competition ends at the finale and these people are on their own after that.

  • Karen C

    Cook’s was part of the fan pack from his official website, glad they are selling it separately now, I think it’s fantastic.    

  • iani

    As for the last comment: that is not exactly true, since that one
    make-up-wearing screaming poseur has (for some strange reason) had
    several other releases after the first album: remixes and a
    live-dvd-cd.  TOTALLY UNFAIR from the label towards the others IMO. I
    read somewhere – actually here on MJ’s Blog – that the label invested
    much money on promoting him and it didn’t pay offas they had hoped, and
    therefore they tried to get the money back with those releases. Don’t
    know if that is true.

    I’m pretty sure RCA got back all the expenses from Adam for all the extras they got for him. He is a visual artist with great voice and music/sound fit for a larger demo, they have tried to keep him more in the public eye because the guy has been more “spicy”, lol.
    On the other hand, David sold quickly a lot for RCA and they said “Thank you, it’s enough” and sent him to write, for 3 years, with almost nothing in between but an Extreme Makeover-Home Edition as a highlight; no awards appearances at least in the background/audience, or festivals, something in the music field to be in contact with.
    I am a mad fan too, a well known outraged one and I would like for my idol the best from the idols, I want Adam’s live-DVD, Kelly/Carrie management, Daughtry’s “band” and more, lol. That doesn’t mean anything because everything is set for the individual and his/her material. With RCA you never know, they might have one year with good finance, the other one maybe a bad one, if they think they can get some money back from idols they might spend some extra money with. David is backed by Fuller too with his only concern to put him on AI stage every year anyhow. Nothing bad in this, but this stage is an annual stage, it has its own “hot idol” people are willing and staying to see the new potential not a former idol to spend money with. Just give him some extra promo outside of AI circle please, and I’ll be a happy fan then.

    ETA: I’d still like to think that once you have fallen in love with someone’s voice and talent, you’d want to hear that voice for years and years to come.

    So true, hopefully he has more luck and good material this time around and maybe more money from RCA to spend with him if everything goes well. I’m sorry for him and his fans they foolished him twice with touring in EU, I’ve heard at least 2 songs from TLM were used in UK and Germany for some televised segments.

  • Anonymous

    I’d still like to think that once you have fallen in love with someone’s voice and talent, you’d want to hear that voice for years and years to come. At least I do.
    I have been 90-95 %pure jazz fan since I was 13 years old – I have had some rock favorites along the years (and got into jazz because of Blood, Sweat & Tears). Thanks to David Cook, I have also started to listen to today’s rock music again – so Idol – or at least a wonderful Idol winner! – can change your interest in music styles! Earlier, David used to tweet about many bands whose albums he had listened to recently, and I always checked them out on the Internet (and liked them!).
    I had never heard of Our Lady Peace and Collective Soul before David sang their tunes on Idol, and those two were among my very big favorites of the tunes he sang in the contest (and I loved all of them!).  I also loved that he didn’t choose the most obvious tunes from the artists whose songs they covered (Mariah Carey, Dolly Parton, Neil Diamond etc). Sorry, this a bit off-topic, but just shows that he has broadened my music taste!
    But it is first and foremost his voice and talent that keeps my buying his music – and will keep also in the future!

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for the explanation!

  • Incipit

     

    “I’d still like to think that once you have fallen in love with someone’s
    voice and talent, you’d want to hear that voice for years and years to
    come. “

    DCAIfanHelsinki, what a perfect way to put that. Yes – I’ve been collecting ‘voices’ to listen to for many years – and a good many of them are jazz, but there is also Rock, and Roadhouse Blues – none of them are passing fancies. Never expected to find a voice like this on such a show as AI – but I did, and this man’s vocals and musical imagination will keep me a fan for life.

  • Anonymous

    What do you mean by “I’m sorry for him and his fans they foolished him twice with touring in EU…” etc?

  • Anonymous

    I totally agree with you also – I never expected to find a voice like David’s on AI or a similar show! And I will remain his fan for life, too! (Well, if he’d suddenly change to country, or rap, or heavy metal, it would take some adjusting from me…!!:-))

    As a general comment on AI, AI has every year really great talent – not all of them in Top 14, but many very good singers. The difference to our Idols (our version of AI) here in Finland is soooooooooooo huge – or course, you have over 300 million people and we have only about 5,4 million.

  • iani

    From his interviews with both DCTR and TLM he said he might go touring in EU, he  even said something like late Jan. or  Feb. this year. Gavin Degraw, his co-headliner for his about 25 tour dates in US was touring that period of time for a pretty large area in EU, not sure about Finland but he had Sweden too and some we were thinking he might open for him. I think he is pretty known there, he had some sold out dates before to start touring. I know some fans from UK, DK and Finland also were willing and waiting for him to go touring there. Finally, there was no money for him to go(from a David’s interview source too).

  • Anonymous

    It is surely easier to make remixes of disco-pop-style tunes than of some other kind of music – unless you do an acoustic cd, for instance.
    David Cook’s live CD-DVD would surely have sold very well in 2009-2010. Maybe he is overly critical and concerned about the quality of the sound in concerts.

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

    600K worldwide, because she broke in the UK on her first album (where Alexandra Burke and others have also done exceptionally well).  In the US, she’s sold about 180K compared to her platinum plus debut, which is only slightly less severe a drop-off than Cook’s with that top 10 pop hit, which he didn’t have.

    So?

    The fact remains that Jordin Sparks managed to sell 600k of her sophmore album and over 1M singles. To Americans in the US, to Brits in the UK, to penguins at the South Pole. 

    David Cook did not.

    Which means Jordin Sparks is an artist with appeal in the post-show industry  and David Cook… not so much.

  • Anonymous

    OK, now I understand. I do remember that, and kept up hopes of him touring somewhere here in Europe, but when I read he is making new music now, I totally understand this situation. Besides, he had the marathon and The Race for Hope this spring also. But, I keep up hoping to hear him (and hopefully meet him) this year somewhere!

  • Anonymous

    Which means Jordin Sparks is an artist with appeal in the post-show industry  and David Cook… not so much.

    It means that when you have one pop hit that reaches foreign markets, you are likely to have two or more.  Good for her.  It doesn’t mean that dropping from 3 million sales worldwide to 600,000 worldwide is somehow not an indication that she lost most of the base from the first album.  And that’s why you can’t call it unique to Cook or guitar playing white males.

  • http://twitter.com/MoriaPolonius Moria Polonius

     And that’s why you can’t call it unique to Cook or guitar playing white males.

    Oh? Jordin possibly lost most of her Idol fanbase but she has turned out capable of gaining new fans. WGWGs haven’t, painfully obvious in Cook’s case. 

    Jordin actually is another proof of female AI winners being viable commercial products, unlike male ones. On what is probably the most commercial tv show of all time.

    Bottom line: female winners do ok or brilliant post-show. Male ones don’t. 

    Sorry, but no amount of excusing or justifying is going to make Cook/Kris/Lee any less of a group of similar men who all turned out to be a Mr. America without appeal, commercial or otherwise, in the big bad world. Which I personally can barely wrap my mind around but that’s the reason I find the phenomenon so interesting.

  • Anonymous

    Cook’s was part of the fan pack from his official website, glad they are selling it separately now

    It’s been sold separately for quite some time.  Almost 2 months in fact.  It  has been on sale at Walmart since Feb 7, 2012 where it was a Walmart exclusive.  I guess the agreement with Walmart is now expired, since iTunes now has released it in so many countries.  Germany’s release day is Friday, which is why it has a date of March 30 on iTunes. ;)

  • Anonymous

    Oh? Jordin possibly lost most of her Idol fanbase but she has turned out capable of gaining new fans.

    Which is why her big buzzy Ryan Tedder penned single that she debuted on AI last year sold similarly to Cook’s TLG and got less radio play?

    Look, I like Sparks, although some of her singles aren’t my cuppa.  I think this movie has the chance to jumpstart her career, and I really hope it does.  But it needs jump starting.

    You are insisting that this phenomenon is entirely about gender or playing an instrument.  It’s about radio play, too.  When you can get it and maintain it, you do better than if you can’t.  It’s really that simple.  When you don’t put out a US single for two years (Battlefield to I Am Woman, or Come Back to Me to TLG), and you don’t have a Clarkson or Daughtry level repetoire of other recurrent songs, it’s going to be harder to stay top of mind for radio and get back into things.  I think Lambert is seeing this to an extent as well (it’s been awhile since IIHY and CHR still isn’t touching BTIKM), and he has never played guitar once.

  • Karen C

    Failing to live up to whose standard, though?  Different things are important to different artists.  For some putting out the music they want to is more important than being at the top of the pop charts.  

  • Karen C

    Bottom line: female winners do ok or brilliant post-show. Male ones don’t.

    That’s a different argument than the WGWG being the ones that haven’t done well, because it includes the males who aren’t WGWG.  Ruben Studdards first album sold very well and his second one didn’t, either.  Which does follow the pattern that most of the winners have had.  

  • Susan

    I have personally spoken to several people who are fans of the show that do not even know that their favorites released any original music after the show that were interested in the albums after I told them about them. 

    I believe this.  Last July I uploaded a video to youtube that I shot of James at the American Idol concert.  On Sunday, someone commented on the video “somebody give him a record deal.”  

    Of course I commented that he’s had an album out for 4 months now…

  • Anonymous

    ” It’s about radio play, too.  When you can get it and maintain it, you do better than if you can’t.  It’s really that simple.  When you don’t put out a US single for two years (Battlefield to I Am Woman, or Come Back to Me to TLG), and you don’t have a Clarkson or Daughtry level repetoire of other recurrent songs, it’s going to be harder to stay top of mind for radio and get back into things.”

    Very true. I would also add that it takes a label that believes in the artist’s potential. Take Rihanna for example. Her album sales started off very poor for the 1st 3 albums (1st week sales of 70k or lower) but her label kept putting out single after single to get the sells up. When she ran out of singles, her label immediately put out a new album and reinvented her image until people became loyal fans. She has never taken a break…ever.

    I think if labels follow the same formula with idol winners they would be more successful.

    If Jessica wins, they should give her the Rihanna treatment and support her unconditionally. I don’t believe that radio station treat idol winners differently, labels do.

  • http://twitter.com/eilonwya10 Eilonwy

    Very true. I would also add that it takes a label that believes in the artist’s potential. Take Rihanna for example. Her album sales started off very poor for the 1st 3 albums (1st week sales of 70k or lower) but her label kept putting out single after single to get the sells up.

    Mmmm… I agree that label commitment is good and that it’s possible to leave too long between singles or give up too soon… but Rihanna’s first album, Music of the Sun, had only two singles released and that was enough to drive it to gold certification in the U.S., even though the second single flopped. The second album, A Girl Like Me, had opening week sales of 115,000 and only three singles in the U.S., which charted in CHR at #1, #2, and #6.

    It’s with Good Girl Gone Bad that we get something like six U.S. singles, but that one opened with sales of 162,000 — and she’s churning out top 10 CHR hits. 

    It looks like Def Jam kept going with singles for Rihanna as long as the songs were hitting at least platinum and charting really well, but stopped releasing singles from an album once one didn’t do so hot. That’s a little different from trying to follow up on singles that came nowhere near platinum and had modest radio play; it’s much harder for the mid-list artists to get the necessary radio traction on a subsequent song. (Not “we’re all doooooooomed” impossible — but enough more difficult that I think labels have reason to factor this into their decision-making process as they work through an album cycle.)

  • Karen C

     When you don’t put out a US single for two years (Battlefield to I Am Woman, or Come Back to Me to TLG), and you don’t have a Clarkson or Daughtry level repetoire of other recurrent songs, it’s going to be harder to stay top of mind for radio and get back into things.

    I think this is a big part of the problem with those from in recent years Idol getting radioplay. It seems like other new artist get 4-5 singles from their debut albums and Idols are getting 2 or 3, even if the albums are still doing well. It’s happened so many times I wonder if they get less money for releasing singles than in a normal contract for a new artist.