Idol Headlines 1/11/09

5. The contestants get feistier.

“There were just too many people who just weren’t saying what they were thinking. I’ve always prided myself on this show that it’s a two-way battle. We can criticize them, and they have absolutely every right to criticize me in return. Hopefully, this year it might be the year of the-contestant-fights-back-a-little-bit, because I think we need that.”

The above is from Simon’s top 10 reasons to watch Season 8. If the contestants fight back, they run the risk of going home. They will only be safe if someone else who does not sing as well also fights back. I think a lot of drama will turn people off. Oh well, we’ll see soon.

^^^Simon is a liar. (See Simon’s childish reaction to David Cook after All Right Now.) And, no way the public responds kindly to backtalk. Drama for drama’s sake is not what sells this show. Bad advice, bad move.

Proof positive right here folks that Simon Cowell is a perfect ass. Brooke could talk back all she wanted and would be still (I believe) if she hadn’t read/heard on the internets how poorly it reflected upon her. Luke Menard said essentially the same thing the week before that DC said and got no response at all from Simon. Tread at your own risk, folks, tread lightly (or maybe tread like Danny Noriega…that was fun).

Simon… *eyeroll*

Why does it seem that this season the show is more interested in creating controversy and drama than it is in finding the best new artist?
I don’t like the direction this is taking. Do they really want to make the show more about the contestants’ personality than about their talent?
Well, at least my expectations from Season 8 are sufficiently lowered, so not alot would disappoint me.

deleted

And Pop Eater’s #1 rule for AI contestants:

“Don’t Talk Back to Simon
He’s almost always right anyway, so it’s futile and will only make you less sympathetic with voters.”

So, Simon must have a few people he’s willing to sacrifice early on for the sake of “drama” and “personality”. I just hope they don’t also turn out to be the best singers, since Simon doesn’t necessarily recognize that in the early rounds either (said no to both Daughtry an Cook in Hollywood).

HA, it looks like David’s Heroes might be featured in the Progressive Presents Skating and Gymnastics Spectacular on NBC, Jan. 18. Awesome~

HA, it looks like Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Heroes might be featured in the Progressive Presents Skating and Gymnastics Spectacular on NBC, Jan. 18. Awesome~

What is it with DC and sporting events? First TOML on the Olympics and ESPYs, and now Heroes starts popping up too… Plus wasn’t there something with LO and football or am I remembering that wrong?
I love it, whatever it is.

Yup. LO was played during some NFL games and during some college football games, around mid-season.

It’s late notice but last night a call was sent out from Taylor’s camp:

http://www.taylorhicks.com/

We are looking for Taylor Hicks fans to be background in his video..Age range 16-40…minors accompanied by adult…Women and Men….both attired for cocktail party … The look is downtown chic with an edge..Young, sexy, modern, classy…Men please come in a suit .. Women should come dressed for a cocktail party , also bring a street option.. Sexy street, not cheesy…Bring a couple of different looks and tons of accessories…expect to be there for 6 hours

Jan 12
9AM Call time
California Clipper
1002 North California Ave
Chicago IL 60622

http://www.californiaclipper.com/

General consensus seems to be Idol’s a little broke after S7 and needs to be fixed. I’m assuming USA means KLC and not David Cook as underperforming but other articles consider Cook’s success sub par so far. Which is kind of interesting because his sales have been good.

Yeah jpfan, I think idol’s history of having successful contestants start with hit singles is hurting DC a bit. Even Jordin’s first song charted well. He’s doing waaayyyy better than a typical new artist, but LO is shaping up to be a moderate hit as opposed to a smash. Which is kind of interesting, because its not like his Idol status should help him at radio, you know? One would expect it would help him get good press access and good opening album sales, but radio programmers don’t give a damn about idol. LOL. I wonder what the second single reaction will be like.

Jp, how did our posts end up reversed? weird.

Yeah, Brian Mansfield did mean KLC and not DC with his comment. He spelled it out in the comment section:

Kristy Lee Cook – or, the not-really-successful Cook as opposed to the really successful Cook, which would be David.

I have only seen one write up which painted a negative picture of DC’s success, also in USA Today, from a TV writer. Have I missed others?
I’m just wondering, because while there is definitely a consensus that the show needs fixing, I haven’t seen much of anything from legitimate press that painted DC as a sub par success, far from it.

I won’t argue that LO is a huge hit, because it’s not, but DC has one Platinum single, one Gold single (this week) and an album going on Platinum. If anyone’s painting him as unsuccessful, they’re either not paying attention or have unreasonable standards.

Simon just wants them to talk back to him so he can one up them. I’m pretty sure it’s going to be quite transparent, and I don’t like the idea.

Oops, I edited my post, lost some of it and it ended up out of order. Oh well. Okay, this is getting skeery. My first post ends up posting after no matter what. Baltimore Sun article comments on Cook’s success as well.

other articles consider Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s success sub par so far.

I too have only seen the one passing mention in USA Today about DC not “igniting the charts,” which seemed a bit uninformed and ultimately meaningless. Honestly, I see this as much a marketing ploy as anything. And, to be honest, it all seems to be a desperate attempt to make the show “new” and “fresh” in its 8th season, when there’s nothing new or fresh about it — and, it’s maybe even an tacit acknowledgement that they expect to lose avid Season 7 viewers who feel another season could never measure up. About the latter, I believe they’re absolutely right.

Anywho, I’ve not seen any widespread indication that the media views (or paints) David Cook as unsuccessful, at least not yet.

“David Cook-David Archuleta finale drew 8 percent more local viewers than 2007″ – from the Buffalo News

^^ Thanks MJ, for the link above. I think this highlights that the Davids drew eyeballs for AI7. And IIRC, the vote tallies for that night were record breaking, too. I do find it telling thing that no one knocks the Davids in their overall assessment of AI7. The Davids were head and shoulders above the rest of the top 10 so it was just like waiting for the finale two by top 9 week. They were a great discovery, and I’ve enjoyed watching their progression on AI and now post-AI.

But I can understand why critics and reviewers found AI7 as a whole a little boring. I’ve been watching with interest on how AI/Freemantle would market this new season of AI. Seems like they try and tweak it every year to steer the ship. From my understand Season 6 was a “meh” season overall, in terms of talent, on balance. Not an attack on any of the contestants, but Sanjaya is the butt of many a light night comic (see Kimmel, Jimmy). So for season 7, they recalibrated and made a concerted effort to push this notion of “most talented top 24 ever” and introduced instruments. I love the addition of the instruments, and helped convey the message that these were musical artists, not necessarily talent show contestants, who sometimes make for salacious or interesting tv. AI was still #1 in the ratings, even though there was a drop in veiwership across the board. But having watched AI7 redux this past week, I’m really not surprised. Did viewers tune out once Brooke started her emotional collapse? Or Carly’s? I mean, I fast forwarded through some segments because it was awkward and not fun. No feisty exchanges there. I mean, can you look more crushed or bruised than Carly Smithson did after Top 8 performance? Ouch.

It should be interesting to see how season 8 evolves and plays out.
–

I, too, forgot that there were too Cooks from Season 7. Whenever I read Cook, I always think David, not KLC. Ha ha (Tm Archie). I wish her well though. Oddly, this AI7 redux has made me feel even sorrier for her post AI career progression to date. Good luck, KLC.

As for USA Today, there were 2 different articles. One was written by a TV critic about season 8′s “marketing” change. So I didn’t take that as a knock on Cook (David). I’m actually thankful to Brian, the Idol Chatter reporter, for the radio information. Glad he’s going to be providing numbers like Ken Barnes.

The Baltimore Sun article outright states that Cook, Jordin, and Hicks haven’t been as successful as previous winners and then moves on. It in no way indicates a consensus by the media that Cook isn’t successful (especially since Jordin is included in there, too). The article takes an extra moment to dig at Hicks – not Cook or Jordin.

Baltimore Sun talks about ratings decline and then states:

“But the ratings aren’t Idol’s only concern. Cook and other recent winners like Jordin Sparks and Taylor Hicks have failed to match the post-Idol success of their predecessors.”

To me that means Cook, Sparks and Hicks are not up to par with past Idol winners. In other words, not stars.

^^I didn’t see that one, thanks. I suppose that raises the question of the Sun’s definition of successful and the timetable for measuring it. Sheesh, 7 weeks since album release and we’re going to compare him to years (or even different years and markets) for the others?

I guess I’ll just say, “Whatever,” shrug and move on. I’m fairly convinced David will have the last laugh. LOL

Heres Kellys interview on Radio 1 in the UK today, if you want to give it a listen
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ndw4q2
theres some info about the new album in there.

To me that means Cook, Sparks and Hicks are not up to par with past Idol winners. In other words, not stars.

Because Fantasia and Ruben are still “burning up the charts”? The only star winners from early seasons are Kelly and Carrie.
Eh, it’s a TV writer looking for a TV story. Jordin had one of the biggest pop hits of the last year. To lump her and DC with Taylor is to ignore the facts for the story, nothing more.
When I see an article about DC (not about Idol) by a music journalist (not a TV critic) call his success sub par, I’ll be upset. This use of winners to diminish Idol and show it’s supposed decline is really off base, doesn’t have much to do with the facts and ignores the changing music and economic climate. Nobody sells like Kelly and Carrie used to anymore. Well, except for Taylor Swift maybe.
Both Jordin and DC are already success stories, But that wouldn’t fit well with the whole “AI is losing it” meme, will it?

and, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s maybe even an tacit acknowledgement that they expect to lose avid Season 7 viewers who feel another season could never measure up. About the latter, I believe theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re absolutely right.

I don’t know…after the wildly successful Season 5, the ratings for Season 6 were the highest they’d ever be–37 million for the premiere show.

I think they’re trying to stop or slow down last year’s ratings decline.

The show has produced three superstars and probably could use another huge superstar to keep the buzz going. Someone who dominates the charts worldwide like Leona Lewis would help alot. And right now Cook is not being considered by some media as at that level of success. Maybe he will in the future but not right now.

I think to keep the ratings High they need to stop with the little plugs of other shows and movies. By doing this AI seemed to turn into one big info commerical and I think that turned the average AI veiwer off.

AI I think is in trouble not for it’s format but because of the economy. People are not going to buy CD’s unless the artist really comes out of the gate and is like a Carrie Underwood.

I don’t think 19 entertainment promotion of the winner is done smartly and clearly they do not spend much money on it. Perhaps this can be changed ASAP? I’ve noticed they kind of leave it up to the Winner and Fans to do most of the work.

Another reason I think AI slipped in the ratings was how they geared it towards the teens and basically the older average viewer tuned out because it wasn’t their cup of tea anymore. (I’m speaking from my own experience). It seems as though the Exectutives in all areas are still thinking old school, that the teens are the people to target. The mighty dollar they think is in them.

Well with the economy not in good shape, those teens allowances have been cut! *laugh*

Just a few thoughts.

^^I’m sure you’re right, MJ. I’m equally sure that I’m projecting. LOL

My only interest in watching Season 8 is to see how Kara works out. I have no interest at all in the contestants and haven’t planned to watch. I’m one of those casual viewers who picked up at around the top 3 for seasons 4-6, but never cared or (voted) much. Season 7′s AI obsession is all new to me.

So, yeah, projecting… :happy_tb:

ETA: jpfan, I believe you may be reading too much into those few sources. Maybe not, but maybe. FWIW, I really don’t believe any credible, informed news source would undertake to offer an intentional, meaningful opinion as to the success of David Cook so early on, or against the actual early success he presently does seem to be having and building. A brief conclusory mention in order to offer otherwise unsupported speculation about why the show is changing or may be concerned about its future? Yes, obviously. But, to offer thoughtful, supportable comments about Cook’s success? Hardly, imo.

The show has produced three superstars and probably could use another huge superstar to keep the buzz going. Someone who dominates the charts worldwide like Leona Lewis would help alot. And right now Cook is not being considered by some media as at that level of success. Maybe he will in the future but not right now.

Oh, well, if that’s the level we’re talking aobut, 99% of the music scene is sub par. I guess it’s all a question of managing expectations to a reasonable level.
It’s not black or white – you can be a very successful artist even if you don’t go triple Platinum within a year. Hardly anyone does anymore. I guess it all depends on what one considers a “success”.

Because Fantasia and Ruben are still à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“burning up the chartsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ? The only star winners from early seasons are Kelly and Carrie.

Both Jordin and DC are already success stories, But that wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t fit well with the whole à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“AI is losing ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  meme, will it?

Yeah but I don’t think that’s what they are saying. I think everyone is expects idols to have instant music mega success. Neither David has done that this year. Jordin’s success came later, and she didn’t hit platinum yet. So while all 3 are successful, they are not mega sellers out the gate like idol was able to do in the past for someone every year except arguably season 3, until Jordin’s year.

Yeah, the awful plug for Love Guru still lingers. Blech. It did feel like they were pushing alot of other commercial opportunities. Should be interesting to wathc AI8.

Am not a huge Sparks follower or fan of her type of music, but I think MJ had a posting in December about how well Jordin did last year. She’s like the sleeper AI winner who burned up the charts with her singles. Will not go through the hassle of looking for her stats, just go to MJ’s billboard archives where there’s an ACNielsen list of all of Jordin’s successes. Is she in “everyday” vernacular like Carrie or Kelly, absolutely not. But it took time for Kelly’s post AI career to take off, because if memory serves, critics were not calling Kelly a popstar sales machine when her debut album charted. She had some hits. Kelly followed up a successful debut album with a monster second album, and it was Breakaway that cemented her stardom. Who knows if Jordin will get there? But I think she’s doing just fine. Her first year out of AI has been pretty good thus far. As for Cook, it is far too soon to tell. What is fact is that DC has two charting singles, one certified platinum and the other inching towards gold, and a certified gold record. Not too shabby given that his albums has only been out since mid November. Not commenting on Taylor Hicks. Heh.

I cannot remember but even Carrie Underwood didn’t hit the big time until her second CD right? I’m worried for David Cook because instead of in the studio working on his 2nd CD he is out touring College’s.

I’m guessing he needs to do that to make the money for top rating recording studio session’s along with promotion. My guess is the record companies just do not spend the money to promote any more.

I still wouldn’t extrapolate offhand comments in two articles as being an outright consensus that the media considers Cook a disappointment.

And isn’t Leona standing at 1.3 mil in US sales for her album? Cook isn’t that far off from that. So as far as mega-superstar status, I’m not really sure she’s beating him by that big of a margin (especially considering how long her album’s been out).

think everyone is expects idols to have instant music mega success. Neither David has done that this year. Jordinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s success came later, and she didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t hit platinum yet. So while all 3 are successful, they are not mega sellers out the gate like idol was able to do in the past for someone every year except arguably season 3, until Jordinà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s year.

It’s probably true that winning AI did more for the earlier winners than it does for the recent ones. If that was the point, I totally agree with it. It’s natural that as a show grows older, the novelty will wear off and viewers will become jaded and not go out and automatically buy whatever the winner puts out.
Winning the show gives less clout now than it did in the first few seasons. That just means you have to be a better artist to make it, you have to prove yourself all over again with your own material for people to take interest. It does not mean the newer winners have been sub par.

I’m not sure there’s a disagreement here, really.

No Jolene, I don’t think you and I disagree at all! I think we see the idol’s “success” in a similar way. I was trying say that I didn’t think the writers were ignoring facts to fit a slant, I think they were saying it because the perception is Idol stopped churning out at least one instant megaseller a season, therefore idol is in decline. This IS a fact, actually. At least the mega seller part. You can interpret that fact several ways though.

And isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t Leona standing at 1.3 mil in US sales for her album? Cook isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t that far off from that. So as far as mega-superstar status, Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not really sure sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s beating him by that big of a margin (especially considering how long her albumà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s been out).

Regardless of Leona total US sales, she had the biggest hit in the world and sold over 5M WW. 5 or 10 years from now, people will still remember Bleeding Love and not how much she sold. Same goes for Pink, she’s sold about 750k in the US but has sold over 1.5M outside the US and has a 30 day sold-out tour in Australia this summer. These artist don’t simply rely on US sales to achieve superstar status.

5 or 10 years from now, people will still remember Bleeding Love and not how much she sold.

True for the general public, not true for her record company. I have no idea what the future holds for Leona, and I wish her every success, but music history is full of songs and albums by “one hit wonders” that everyone remembers, but who were never able to achieve that level of success again. Even her own 2nd single didn’t do as well as Bleeding Love, so, by some people’s standards, I guess she’s slipping and on her way to being a failure and dropped by her label. :tongue_wink_ee: Obviously that’s not really true, but I do doubt that she’ll achieve Bleeding Love’s level of success consistently. Almost no one can.

Same goes for Pink, sheà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s sold about 750k in the US but has sold over 1.5M outside the US and has a 30 day sold-out tour in Australia this summer. These artist donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t simply rely on US sales to achieve superstar status.

Seriously? Now we’re comparing a debut artist whose album hasn’t even been out for 2 months to the global success of someone on their 5th album? An album, by the way, that’s been out longer than David Cook’s, but which hasn’t sold as much as his in the US? Okey dokey.

I cannot remember but even Carrie Underwood didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t hit the big time until her second CD right?

Carrie was already a Grammy winner with several hits and millions of CD’s sold before her sophomore CD came out.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m worried for David Cook because instead of in the studio working on his 2nd CD he is out touring Collegeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s.

His FIRST CD just came out less than 2 months ago. I wouldn’t expect him to crank out out another CD yet anyway. Are there any artists that who wait to tour until a 2nd CD came out?

Genuinely curious question: What were Kelly’s and Carrie’s (or Daughtry’s) sales numbers and airplay for their debut albums and singles at six weeks from album release? I assume they were greater than DC’s at the same point in time, or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But, were they so much greater that they far surpass the percentage decline of the market overall? If not, I wonder why we can say it’s “fact” that those artists were “instant megahits” worlds apart from Cook?

I’m no expert, but didn’t Kelly only break away with her sophomore effort, “Breakaway?”

I cannot remember but even Carrie Underwood didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t hit the big time until her second CD right?

Her FIRST album has sold over 6.5 million. Her second is at around 2.5 million.

Kelly is the one who really made a big breakthrough with her second album, but it still came out a year and a half after her first one.

ETA:

Genuinely curious question: What were Kellyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s and Carrieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s (or Daughtryà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s) sales numbers and airplay for their debut albums and singles at six weeks from album release?

Per Ken Barnes’ Idol Chatter #’s:

Daughtry – Album Sales

Week 1 – 304,000
Week 2 – 156,000 (rounded total 459,000)
Week 3 – 155,000 (rounded total 614,000)
Week 4 – 181,000 (rounded total 795,000)
Week 5 – 250,000 (rounded total 1,040,000)
Week 6 – 76,000 (rounded total 1,120,000)

I’m not sure about the single sales – I know “It’s Not Over” did not really start getting airplay until after the album was released.

I’ll have to look for Kelly and Carrie’s.

The album has been out 7 weeks. It’s doing great and all of the casual remarks I’ve seen from non-fans have been along the lines of “How is this album selling so well?” and “I’m surprised it’s still in the Top 10″.
His album is doing great in a really not-so-great time for music.

Is DC a megastar right now? No. Will he be? Maybe. Are the only two options “megastar” and “failure”? God, I hope not.

When the album came out and people didn’t know how well he’d have to do to make another one, the word “Platinum” popped up. No one was sure he’d get there.
He’d get there.

An artist who gets to continue making major label records in this crummy economic climate may not be considered a megastar, but to me, he is already a success. What doesn’t succeed nowadays, simply doesn’t last.
I don’t care if AI gets a megastar winner, I care that my favorite musician continues making music. Just putting it perspective for myself, YMMV etc.

Re: Leona Lewis. Here are her record sales numbers as of last week:

56 LEWIS*LEONA SPIRIT 12,804 -60 32,027 1,407,356

Here’s the sales history. Spirit and Bleeding Love debuted in Europe on the 12/1/2007 charts. Bleeding Love debuted in the US as a “Bubbling Under” single on the 2/16/2008 chart. It then climbed the Hot 100, so that it hit #1 on the Hot 100 on 4/5/2008. Spirit was then released in the US in mid-April 2008, so that it debuted as #1 on the Billboard 200 on 4/26/2008. (So, about 7 months before DCTR.) It was a completely different campaign—they started by establishing her in Europe, then established Bleeding Love as a big hit, and only then released Spirit here. But let’s look at the records through 7 weeks to see how, with that different campaign and the strength of Bleeding Love, Spirit did through seven weeks:

1 4/26/2008 205,390 (including street violations)
2 5/3/2008 94,842
3 5/10/2008 95,623
4 5/17/2008 83,903
5 5/24/2008 75,709 (gold sales at 5 weeks)
6 5/31/2008 62,321
7 6/7/2008 50,117 = Total through 7 weeks of 667,905

Now, let’s look at DCTR through seven weeks:

1 12/6/2008 279,578 (including street violations)
2 12/13/2008 111,623
3 12/20/2008 87,069
4 12/27/2008 103,544 (gold sales at 4 weeks)
5 1/3/2009 128,874
6 1/10/2009 100,745
7 1/17/2009 30,595 = Total through 7 weeks of 842,262

Even if you take into account the holiday season, I think that it’s hard to say that Leona’s Spirit did better through 7 weeks than DCTR. Whether DCTR equals or betters Spirit through 39 weeks depends on how it rebounds after the January doldrums. I believe that DCTR can equal or better Spirit by that date, especially if LO continues to perform well until the next single is on line to give airplay and the next single performs well. Other things that could help to get sales up post-January are if DC music continues to get “extra” placement in connection with sports stuff and AI and if the tour goes well (as we believe it should, given how well DC and his band performs live.

I’d also add that I can’t begin to imagine that anyone would actually want to compare Leona Lewis and David Cook outside of the Idol/X Factor context. They are so different as artists in terms of their genres, etc., that it strikes me as a pretty strange comparison. But it came up, so….

Yeah, the awful plug for Love Guru still lingers. Blech.

If they pull that kind of garbage again this year, I’m just going to record it and fast forward. That was horrid!

Ah, The awesome Richard Rushfield.

Congratulations on the platinum to a true champion, and make room on that wall for some more as his first album is poised to break through the million mark momentarily.

Yeah, the awful plug for Love Guru still lingers. Blech.

Hey, it wasn’t all that bad. It did give us The DA Foam Catch and the ultimately charming Cookie laugh.

Seriously? Now weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re comparing a debut artist whose album hasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t even been out for 2 months to the global success of someone on their 5th album?

That why I said it’s useless to use them as examples because they sell at a different level.

True for the general public, not true for her record company.

Her record company look at her worldwide total. Whether she continuous to be a success that depends on the quality of the music.

Leona Lewis Spirit WW 5.905.000 6.085.480

Downloads US alone:

Leona Lewis 5,027,000

deleted–going under table

David Cook is doing just fine, no worries here. He has over 2,207,000 single downloads from I-Tunes since the spring of 2008, and over 842,000 in album sales in 7 weeks and is well on the way to having a very successful career.

Taylor Swift’s number are extra-ordinary I must admit. She’s in a class by herself.

Daughtry didn’t win, so he’s not really relevant to deciphering the Sun’s article that compares the champs, albeit in passing. But, let’s consider his numbers. Cook falls roughly 280K behind him in sales at the same week mark. I’m pretty sure that the market drop in units moved between those same time frames in 2006 and 2008 will more than cover that 25% difference.

That’s why I believe even a passing reference to Cook’s “lesser” success lacks a factual basis at this point in time.

But, then again, several posts ago I said I would shrug and walk away from such meaningless remarks. Apparently, that was no more factual than the Sun’s view of Cookie’s success. LOL

I wonder why we can say ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“factà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  that those artists were à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“instant megahitsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  worlds apart from Cook?

Look I love DC and defend him to death, but there is no real way to argue that he’s the megahit Daughtry or Carrie were out of the gate. To do what they did, he’d have to be selling like Taylor Swift or Nickleback or Beyonce right now. And he’s not. AND IT DOESN’T MATTER. This is the difference between doing great and doing phenomenal. Frankly, I’ll take either one. LOL. He is a success, but he’s does not have a hot-selling intro single like near everyone else had, and he had great, but not OMG!Fantastc sales. He’s doing his as a bit more of a slow burn. I am not worried, and I’m not trying to downplay him. I’m thrilled with him right now. But I don’t feel like he has to follow the exact same path as other idols either.

I agree with every thing you’ve said tinawina. I guess I’m simply looking for an fair and accurate comparison, considering admittedly different market factors. But, given the number of variables of all sorts, I suppose that’s not really possible. However, for the same reason, I don’t really feel we can say it’s “fact” that he’s less successful at this point in time. It may be an impression or perception based on how successful others have been overtime and in the mainstream. But, so far, I’ve seen nothing that warrants a declaration of relative success between the Idols that includes Cook. Not yet.

All’s good though. I’m not worried about him AT ALL.

Its all good wareallinnocent. We are both happy with David. This is a small disagreement. I think comparing across years can be interesting, and there is legitimacy to interpreting sales that way. I am more of the mind to look at how others did relative to their peers at the time. Daughtry and Carrie dominated their genres sales wise, sold way out of proportion to everyone else on the Billboard charts, and stayed in the top 10 comfortably for weeks. They had debut singles that went to the top of their charts (pop and country) and sold boatloads. So DC didn’t have quite that level of success in my head. But he still has great success. Make sense? Anyway, its all in fun!

Makes total sense, and your way is probably a better gauge.

My comments (actually more questions) really went to the article comparing Idols and having Cook among those coming up short. For me, aside from the article lacking supporting data, I found that assertion really premature, and likely unfair at this point. Not to mention, it seems only to apply to Carrie, if we’re talking Idol champs, right? (I ask because I really don’t know, not being an Idol follower… ) So the broad assertion that recent winners haven’t been successful, therefore AI is in trouble, seemed a bit of a stretch to me.

But, yeah, I’m being defensive of Cook, no doubt about it. And, I have to admit that I really am sort of rigid when it comes to wanting peeps to have measurable data to support assertions that may have a personal or professional impact on someone else. Sorry ’bout that.

Moving on…. And, sorry for bogging us down here, everybody…. C’mon Mariah week!

If anyoneà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s painting him as unsuccessful, theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re either not paying attention or have unreasonable standards.

Concur wholeheartedly. To present Cook as a success, you only have to regurgitate facts. To paint him as a disappointment, you have to spin the facts and/or leave out pertinent information. If you have to work to prove your point, maybe you have no point to make. Anyway, I’m a big pop culture junkie, and the only time I’ve seen career damaging negative buzz surrounding an AI winner, it was all about the fact that they either had zippo mainstream (top 40 or HAC) radio presence or they were outsold out of the gate by an also-ran from the same season, “proving” that they didn’t “deserve” to win, or both. (Not saying this was the Idol winner’s fault, or that it couldn’t be overcome at a later date.) Cook’s already slayed both of those beasts and has moved on to other challenges. Any other comparisons are just too early to make. Kelly was warmly regarded off the bat, but Breakaway is considered the pinnacle of her career thus far. I didn’t watch Season 4 of AI and had no clue that Carrie Underwood was doing THAT well until Before He Cheats hit mainstream radio, and even then it took my casual AI watching cousin playing her CD out of the blue to drive it home. The pop culture jury has not ruled against David Cook, and I don’t think it will, unless someone tries really hard to bend the facts to suit a largely negative perception.

That said, what does worry me is the thought that 19, who thus far have been pretty awesome to Cook, might be willing to bend those aforementioned facts to turn him into some sort of sacrificial lamb to play up the new and improved angle. I do not relish Cook being abused to pump ratings for AI Season 8. That will not make me happy. :tongue2_tb: Don’t do it, Fuller.

Archie is on the Valentines issue of J-14!

hehe ozarka

Donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t do it, Fuller.

Judging by DC’s AI commercial and the “winning means something” meme delivered by other AI Commercials, I’m gonna say I don’t find it likely that AI will do anything to diminish DC. That’s like Fuller burning away his own money.
I don’t see it happening.
Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes the other way and DC gets pimped on the show more than some of the previous winners. AI benefits from the success of its alumni, and if there is success to pimp, they will use it.
You can bet that if there’s a songwriter competition this year, the Magic Rainbow will get high pimpage – this is the most successful coronation song Idol has had, I’m thinking they won’t let it slide.
I’ll also bet DC gets his Platinum plaque for DCTR on the show, further highlighting him. I’m not worried about AI hurting DC, to me it’s clear they’ll pimp him, just a question of how much.

A month ago, I would have agreed emphatically, Jolene. But now, I dunno :ponder_tb:… I went to the new AI website after reading this thread to see what’s up. I can’t find the video of Cookie’s AI commercial there anymore. There’s an AI calendar up, it looks new, and I just noticed that every AI winner, even Taylor, has a big picture, with the exception of DC and Fantasia. There is pimpage of Archie’s single in the calendar along with the major accomplishments of AI alum, but no mention of Cook’s platinum Rainbow, Light On, or even of his album being released. It strikes me as weird, but this could all be coincidental. Eh, stepping off the knoll now.

Daivd Cook is Daivd Cook and using Daughtry or Taylor to make him look good or bad is just bad taste. Ya know people like diferent idols most do have an open mind ..some ott bashing does irk others .

I don’t see anyone bashing.

Someone asked for the numbers for Kelly, Carrie, and/or Daughtry, and I provided them. Not trying to make anyone look good or bad, just trying to answer a question, because it was asked.

Comparison between seasons, winners, and other finalists who release albums through Sony will be inevitable simply because it’s the easiest comparison – and people like to compare. There really aren’t any other ways to adequately compare success, since you’d either be comparing them against established artists who already have however many successful albums under their belts, or a brand new artist who wasn’t seen on television by 30 million people for 11 weeks plus.

I seriously doubt that that is going to happen, Sunchick. The AI commercials seem to indicate that they are really trying to push the point that AI winner = superstar. And AI could use another superstar winner, so being negative toward DC as an artist doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense. Plus, it definitely seems like DC has done what he needs to do to make 19 happy with him—by all accounts, he’s easy to work with. And he has, thus far, been successful.

I do think that it is difficult finding a good comparator for either of the Davids. Comparing against releases from prior years is skewed because the market is down. Comparing across genres doesn’t make sense, and there is no AI winner with a similar genre to DC. Given how DA is being marketed, I don’t know that there’s a great AI runner-up comparator for him, and there hasn’t been a strong AI runner-up since Season 2 which was . Comparing to established artists with multiple records out is problematic, but both Davids come in with certain advantages that debut artists don’t have. I mean, I spend as much time comparing the numbers for DC to other people as just about anyone else, but it’s still the case that all of the comparisons have some flaws and, in some cases, serious flaws.

“Brangelina Diss Ryan Seacrest on the Golden Globes Red Carpet!”

http://tv.yahoo.com/blog/brangelina-disses-ryan-seacrest-on-the-golden-globes-red-carpet–75

http://www.americanidol.com/archive/videos/

His commercial is still there, it’s just not smack on the front of the page but on the front page there is a scrolling playlist of videos and his picture is there in 3 different places including a video where he talks about his CD. His pic is right on the front page with a link to the “finale flashback”. Scroll through the news pages, there’s plenty of mentions of him including TOML and LO and his accomplishments. As for the calendar when you go to the main calendar page the main pic there is his winning moment (May as well)
http://www.americanidol.com/calendar/december/2008
Eh, I’m not getting the concern.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see anyone bashing.

I removed that comment.

BTW, could we dial it back a bit generally here? I want to keep these discussions free for all types of different viewpoints. The giant pile-on tends to intimidate folks from even attempting to join in the conversation.

I would just ask folks to disagree without getting defensive, angry and repetitive.

Thank you.

DOH. :doh_tb: I couldn’t find the promo vid because they have it listed in the scroll under season 8. :dunce_tb: I hadn’t seen the new site before today, and I must say it’s not really easy to navigate…she said, looking pretty dumb with her finger and her thumb in the shape of an L on her forehead… Anyway, my knolldar is probably way out of whack cuz I’ve never actually rooted for a winner before and emmotional attachment clouds objectivity. Yeah, that’s the ticket, nothing to see here…did I mention that the Steelers AND the Eagles won? And Heath Ledger got a posthumous Golden Globe tonight? Yay? Look, it’s the Loch Ness monster! *slinks out of thread unseen*

I think everyone is expects idols to have instant music mega success.

Well, I’ve been reading through the comments here. However, I haven’t had a chance to read them all but want to give my 2 cents.

YMMV, but personally I don’t see DC as the typical AI winner. I have read too many comments by fans stating things like:

“This is the first yr. I ever voted for anyone on AI.” (re:DC)
“I may have voted 1 or 2 times in the past, but I voted as often as I could this yr. for DC.”
“I’ve watched a couple of episodes of AI in the past, but I just had to tune in every week this yr. to see what DC would do next!”
My fav, heh, “‘Innocent’ was a mess, so this was the night I just had to vote for DC so he would stay.”
One person-”I was tired of what I was hearing on the radio, so I emailed several friends asking for new music. A friend sent me Analog Heart and this is what I was looking for, then, much to my surprise, I turn on the TV a few months later and hear that voice on AI.”
One person-”I was flipping through the channels and saw DC singing and thought he was a guest singer, but much to my surprise he was a contestant and I started tuning in every week to see what he would do next.”

Okay, there are probably others, yes definitely others, (and perhaps those who have followed AI in the past can say the same things for past contestants), BUT my. point. is. that I don’t think we can compare DC to past ‘hit’ AI winners (I’m only talking about winners here). Whatever may happen with his sales, people will always be drawn to DC, imho.

I’ve seen fans say those things every year for the Idols. The show appeals to tv audiences who haven’t bought a lot of cds until they suddenly get hooked on a contestant, or else people who don’t normally watch the show discover a certain contestant and start watching it.

I guess he’s different in some ways than other winners/finalists and similar in others. I think it’s logical to compare sales of Idols because they all come from the show and they all have a certain momentum from that, and also a stigma in some people’s minds.

I think there’s too much concern about whether or not DC’s going to be successful. He’s doing very well (as is Archie) and I don’t understand the concern. I am looking forward to a new single, because I think there are better songs on the cd than LO, and can’t wait for people to hear them. But I don’t have concern about his success. I think he’s doing great.

It’s interesting to compare sales of other Idols, but at the same time, each person will have a different path. So far I think that DC will be one of the successful Idols.

à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“But the ratings arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t Idolà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s only concern. Cook and other recent winners like Jordin Sparks and Taylor Hicks have failed to match the post-Idol success of their predecessors.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ 

I disagree that “their predecessors” had better success. First, Kelly only had a moderate hit with Miss Independent, which wasn’t a great song, and she didn’t have huge success off her first cd. Her big success came with her sophomore cd. Second, I didn’t notice huge hits by Ruben or Fantasia. They got a lot of radio play on r&b stations, but not that much elsewhere. Clay only had one minor hit, Invisible. Maybe he had some success with Solitaire or Bridge Over Trouble Water, but no big hits like they’re talking about.

The only two Idols that I think had huge initial success was Daughtry and Carrie. And on her second CD, Kelly. Those three have had phenomenal success.

Those articles are rewriting history and distorting the facts, imo. Jordin is doing well, too. I think you can find a zillion different articles out there about AI and they’ll each have a different slant.

David Cook talks about the Disney American Idol Experience attraction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5n02C-_eN4