Idol Headlines for 11/26/09

Here’s the New York Times’ TV critic on the AMA/GMA situation.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here at MJ’s. Thanks for all of the good times this past year.

(Moved from the previous headline thread)

Here’s a wonderful video of David Cook in Mobile Alabama a few nights ago that was just uploaded. Check out the extra-long glory note starting at around 4:16. It goes to about 4:27. I lost my breath listening to it.

Breathe Tonight in Mobile Alabama

I’m sorry but this Adam business is out of control.

Enough is enough already.

Great review of David’s concert. Thank you for posting it, MJ…

Archuleta demonstrated a confident and endearing stage presence, clearly having a good time with his hometown fans. Even more, he showed an ability to convey emotion and feeling as well as strength and musicality. He combines a powerful voice with a youthful vitality that is both engaging and impressive.

ETA: HAPPY TURKEY DAY!!!!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING PEOPLE!

Here is a nice For Your Entertainment review 4stars

http://www.allmusicguide.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jnfoxzqaldte

I love that this situation with Adam has started, what could possibly turn out to be, a national discussion on the double standards perpetuated in the media regarding gay men.

Adam didn’t intentionally start this discussion but it’s pretty amazing that it’s now taking place.

I’m sorry but this Adam business is out of control.

Enough is enough already.

It has gone far beyond just being about Adam at this point IMO. This is really forcing people to look at the reality of how gays are treated in the media and perhaps in society as a whole.

I’m sorry but this Adam business is out of control.

I’m blogging about it because it’s Idol news, but otherwise, I would be tuning it out at this point.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Commercial for Carrie’s special

Wow that last shot of her is gorgeous.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Here’s a wonderful video of David Cook in Mobile Alabama a few nights ago that was just uploaded. Check out the extra-long glory note starting at around 4:16. It goes to about 4:27. I lost my breath listening to it.

Holy Crap! Is that his “5th card”? LOL.

(Edited ’cause Trina beat me to it!)

Kat’s singing on a float in the Macy’s parade right now.

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

ETA: Oops! She’s done!

I’m sorry but this Adam business is out of control.
Enough is enough already.

It has gone far beyond just being about Adam at this point IMO. This is really forcing people to look at the reality of how gays are treated in the media and perhaps in society as a whole

I have to agree with Howard Cohen about Adam. And I never thought I’d say that.
While I’ve always been a Kris fan and Adam has annoyed me at times, I always liked him but I just little to respect about him since that performance. Unlike Jennifer Hudson, I don’t think the White House will be inviting him to sing at any state dinners any time soon.

I think the “how gays are treated in the media” thing is a total smokescreen for a perfomance that was lousy and tasteless.

Delurking to say Happy Thanksgiving. Adam’s album, video, and performances are all things to be thankful for!

I think the ‘how gays are treated in the media’  thing is a total smokescreen for a perfomance that was lousy and tasteless.

ITA

So is Adam to be condemn for one ‘lousy’ performance? I didn’t care for it either and will always believe he panicked and went overboard, but I’m not chucking him overboard because of it. His video, album, and both CBS performances were great. There will be many more great things to come from Adam.

I’m shocked GMA is having Chris Brown on after kicking Adam to the curb.

“I think the ‘how gays are treated in the media’  thing is a total smokescreen for a perfomance that was lousy and tasteless.”

This is right on the mark for me.

I think the ‘how gays are treated in the media’  thing is a total smokescreen for a perfomance that was lousy and tasteless

Somewhat. But, I think it’s also brought the issue to the forefront. Particularly since GMA has booked a convicted felon who brutally beat his girlfriend and his him performing and promoting his new album. So, having Chris Brown talk about his brutality is okay for kids in the morning.

Adam’s performance wasn’t supposed to be about “How Gays Are Treated In The Media” but it has turned into that BECAUSE of GMA and ABC. The focus has shifted from Adam to them, and that’s their doing. And, like it not, it’s right that people are having dialogue about this issue.

Well, I don’t believe it’s a smokescreen at all. But I am pleased that it provided a lifeline and distraction from a weak vocal and bit of a jumbled performance. I also believe the discussion is an important one. And I don’t believe for a moment that anyone is begrudgingly including it in news or blogs (not just you mj, nothing personal.) Some include it due to the charged nature, others include it for hits, and others include it for both, imo. Mileage.

ETA: I totally agree that ABC, its (and CBS’) censorship decisions, and GMA changed the story line. Not Adam.

I think the ‘how gays are treated in the media’  thing is a total smokescreen for a perfomance that was lousy and tasteless.

Agreed. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

I’m shocked GMA is having Chris Brown on after kicking Adam to the curb.

Chris Brown is having his comeback. He is asking for forgiveness and being contrite. People generally eventually respond to that if it appears they are being honest.

I still think that the GMA snub is more personal. I think that ABC is annoyed that they spent so much promo on Adam, then he turned around and broke agreements with them (as to what he would do during his performance) and then went on a promo crusade implying they censored his kiss which they did not do. If Chris Brown decides to beat on one of the newscasters, I’m sure GMA will not have him back either.

While I’ve always been a Kris fan and Adam has annoyed me at times, I always liked him but I just little to respect about him since that performance. Unlike Jennifer Hudson, I don’t think the White House will be inviting him to sing at any state dinners any time soon.

hahaha when is the white house inviting kris?. too funny. Jennifer is beautiful and earned her spot and so will the rest of them some day though i doubt that’s Adam dream now to perform at the white house.

GMA proved Adam’s point by inviting chris Brown, violence is ok but not sexuality. also it shows that every “scandal” will blow over. u wld think chris brown’s career was dead after the uproar in February but look at him now performing on GMA next wld be the grammy etc.

I’m shocked GMA is having Chris Brown on after kicking Adam to the curb.

They booked Chris Brown before the Adam incident even happened. But, I’m shocked they’re having him on after Rihanna’s interview and performance. Not sure that’s a very good idea. They’re going for the ratings they think they’ll get.

LLWD topped this week’s RateTheMusic survey for HAC this week.

I’ll bring the Avalanche video from the 11/25 Mobile show for David Cook over too because, well, it’s just too purty to miss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A9efV-OtOk

Adam’s performance wasn’t supposed to be about ‘How Gays Are Treated In The Media’  but it has turned into that BECAUSE of GMA and ABC. The focus has shifted from Adam to them, and that’s their doing. And, like it not, it’s right that people are having dialogue about this issue.

Exactly. Whatever one’s feelings about Adam’s performance, ABC/GMA’s and CBS/EarlyShow’s acts of censorship have turned it into an issue of discrimination. The LA Times article has some very articulate responses in the comments section.

I think the ‘how gays are treated in the media’  thing is a total smokescreen for a perfomance that was lousy and tasteless.

If not for the ABC editing, cancellation and subsequent events, the talk about his performance, if there was any talk at all, would be about how lousy it was – poor singing, falling, etc. Or it would have been a collective shrug and not publicity/sales boost for him at all. I think that’s definitely true.

But I didn’t see his performance as tasteless and I don’t think the brouhaha counts as a smokescreen because I don’t think it was manufactured to hide the weak performance. Certainly not by Adam, who didn’t create the brouhaha, and I don’t think that was ABC’s intention either. I think they were just, very mistakenly, covering their asses. For me at least, the semantics of “smokescreen” demands some intention on the part of its would-be beneficiary.

It just happend to work out in Adam’s favor that the talk is about the very obvious and, IMO, culturally more important, double standard rather than the more pedestrian “oh, a singer didn’t perform well” story.

Adam isn’t going to be in the stable of go-to, G-rated singers that AI has provided for so long, so no, he won’t be an obvious choice for all those feel good moments where you want an instantly popular singer. He’ll be like many other performers who have some sexually charged performances on their resume, but like them, will probably know how to play the gig he’s hired to do. If anything, that’s where his prior experience lies, afterall. My guess is that any person working in theater has tons of experience in acting emotions he doesn’t actually feel.

Bad as his actual performance was, and as far as the particulars are from my day to day existence, I found it way less annoying than the various fake-heterosexual things he’s done. The performance was a mess, but it wasn’t because of the improvised bits, dancing or singing, it was the ill designed and ill executed rest of it, IMO.

That said, I predict the basic story is dead after today, but like the Britney-Madonna fakery, it’ll live on as an iconic moment when the topic comes up otherwise in the news.

(Interesting: I’m watching a simulated burlesque right now in the Macy’s parade, and all the pretend burlesque dancers are childrend (girl children, of course, pretending to be fan-dancers. Not remotely sexual, of course, but still an interesting choice)

Thanks for the David Cook video. Great. I love the shirt. He looks so good in it.

Adam is the one who played the discrimination card. In reality if a straight man like David Cook had shoved a women’s face into to his crotch on national television his career would be over IMO. So where is the double standard? I am sick of the whole thing.

GMA proved Adam’s point by inviting chris Brown, violence is ok but not sexuality.

Yeah, that. But I would amend to say “not gay sexuality.”

A more interesting question to me is whether the tolerance for violence is a product of our beginnings, the second amendment, history and the like, or is it really a matter of desensitization. Frankly, I lean more toward the latter than the former. Which is part of why I believe the discussion of the double standard is an important one to have.

LLWD topped this week’s RateTheMusic survey for HAC this week.

Yay! That’s great. And I must say that I thoroughly enjoy my Rate the Music surveys every week!

BTW Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here at MJ’s. I hope you make merry with you and yours.

Kristen I believe he said ‘if’ they censured the kiss. And at the time mixed reports were floating around on whether or not it was. And some outlets did censure the kiss. Anyways as Zsus said it’s prompting some good dialogue.

In reality if a straight man like David Cook had shoved a women’s face into to his crotch on national television his career would be over IMO. So where is the double standard?

That exact thing happened on DWTS and they cheered and applauded it. No one’s career is over and no one was kicked off the show.

Boy that STV.tv headline is misleading. SuBo is predicted to have twice as many US sales; Over 600,000 based on MJs earlier post. Not sure that antics can get him another 250,000+ sales.

Happy Thanksgiving folks!!!

That exact thing happened on DWTS and they cheered and applauded it. No one’s career is over and no one was kicked off the show.

Which dance might that have been?

Chris Brown is having his comeback. He is asking for forgiveness and being contrite.

That’s crap. He didn’t just run a traffic light. He beat a girl nearly to death. I don’t give a damn how contrite he is. Abusers are always contrite the day after. His “asking for forgiveness” is to sell albums. ABC is having him on, not because he’s making a comeback, but because he is controversial, and they assumed it would up their ratings. There is no justification for allowing Chris Brown to PERFORM – Adam drama or no Adam drama.

Janet Jackson was SHUNNED for accidentally exposing a nipple during the Super Bowl. No amount of “contriteness” helped her. Chris Brown should be shunned by the media for what he did.

Which dance might that have been?

Was that the Joanna Krupa one? I hadn’t seen that until the showed it the other night – it was totally tasteless.

ABC is having him on, not because he’s making a comeback, but because he is controversial, and they assumed it would up their ratings.

Exactly like they did Adam for the AMAs. Deja vu all over again.

Business as usual, except for that weird GMA cancellation of Adam. Does make you wonder, ngl.

edit: and happy thanksgiving to you. And welcome to moderation

Which dance might that have been?

Was that the Joanna Krupa one? I hadn’t seen that until the showed it the other night ‘“ it was totally tasteless.

I don’t know who it was with, my sister showed it to me on the computer and the dancer was pumping a woman’s head up in down in his crotch simulating a blow job.

What dance was that again, I had not heard that they simulated oral sex on DWTS. Can you tell me the dance?

Not to mention that Adam did the same thing with a female performer and no-one mentioned it, just the male on male.

Was the dance you are talking about Squirrley, the one where the guy had the girl leaning back with her head bobbing up and down into his groin, and kept doing so after the song ended? I remember it being merely laughed at and dismissed.

Adam is the one who played the discrimination card. In reality if a straight man like David Cook had shoved a women’s face into to his crotch on national television his career would be over IMO. So where is the double standard? I am sick of the whole thing.

I think so too, if he did it the same way as Adam. Plus he would loose all my respect like Adam did.

I don’t know who it was with, my sister showed it to me on the computer and the dancer was pumping a woman’s head up in down in his crotch simulating a blow job.

Yeah, that’s the one. I turned the channel. There was no point in it, it was just completely tasteless. It was Joanna & Derek. I’m sure the vid is floating around somewhere.

That exact thing happened on DWTS and they cheered and applauded it. No one’s career is over and no one was kicked off the show.

Derek Hough DID NOT shove Joanna Krupka’s face into his crotch. Her head was close to his crotch, but not shoved in it. It was way more subtle than what Adam did with that dancer.

I thought ABC was stupid for canceling Adam’s appearance. Having said that, I don’t think it was one specific act that caused the panic, rather it was the cumulative effect of the entire routine.

If Adam had merely kissed a dude, there would have been water-cooler talk the next day, but I don’t think it would have caused ABC to cancel his GMA appearance.

Like Kirsten said, the Kiss was not cut on the west coast.

Read the comments on that LA Times article. They’re fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-eMFnRi0M

It’s at like 2:21. But as my grandma would say… it’s pukey. And inappropriate for a family show, indeed.

Derek Hough DID NOT shove Joanna Krupka’s face into his crotch. Her head was close to his crotch, but not shoved in it. It was way more subtle than what Adam did with that dancer.

It was gross, but didn’t have the violent edge to it as the face-crotch-shove. But I definitely did not want to see that going on, lol. Didn’t help that I found that Joanna/Derek pairing nasty anyway. Something just… yuck… about them together.

I’m blogging about it because it’s Idol news, but otherwise, I would be tuning it out at this point.

I think this Adam story is a bit bigger than Idol news — and with CBS blurring “the kiss photo” on the air yesterday, they actually made the story even more a double standard. So what started out as a story about a possibly inappropriate performance [I leave people to make there own decision on this], has now become about how male and gay sexuality is portrayed on American Boradcast TV.

This story will not go away very soon — and maybe one not so great performance on the AMAs can finally inspire an intelligent discussion on this subject.

And this is a BIG story:

Over 5,000 print news reports past 3 days, lead story on every US entertainment TV show for 2 days, and “the kiss photo” is one of the most viewed online images right now.

#8 on Google searches – adam lambert controversy video

Adam Lambert Google search volume on 11/23 and 11/24 [last day reported] is off the “chart” over 2 times Obama search volume.

And Twitter:
Adam Lambert Start Nov 21, 05:30 3d 18h 20m [#49 trend past 30 days]

Plus, on for a 24 hour period on 11/24/09, Adam Lambert, GMAfail, and 2 other Adam releated terms were all in top ten trends.

Derek Hough DID NOT shove Joanna Krupka’s face into his crotch. Her head was close to his crotch, but not shoved in it.

It was still a simulated blow job on a ‘family friendly’ program.

I’m sorry but this Adam business is out of control.

I’m blogging about it because it’s Idol news, but otherwise, I would be tuning it out at this point.

Yep I understand that MJ. I’m just frustrated that Adam’s entire promo cycle this week and more has been focused on the AMA fiasco and it should have been on the music. I do hope it’s over with but somehow I doubt it with Ellen and LKL still to come. It will no doubt be discussed there as well……oh yeah.

seriously
11/26/2009 at 11:54 am

Adam is the one who played the discrimination card. In reality if a straight man like David Cook had shoved a women’s face into to his crotch on national television his career would be over IMO. So where is the double standard? I am sick of the whole thing.

I think so too, if he did it the same way as Adam. Plus he would loose all my respect like Adam did.

Ok let’s be realistic if someone like David Cook did that I would tend to agree, but any number of hip hop artists or Rappers did it, not so much!!! Eminem rapping about 17 rapes notched on his belt has done nothing to hurt him. In fact it is not even being discussed. (I am talking in the media not here as he is not an Idol) As if raping someone is a badge of honor. Absolutely disgusting. I am not saying that what Adam did was proper but condemn one condemn them all otherwise it does smell of discrimination.

Sorry but on DWTS he did not shove her face into his crotch and it was nothing at all like what Adam did.

Sorry but on DWTS he did not shove her face into his crotch and it was nothing at all like what Adam did. You guys really had to search for that one.

So it was gentle and that made it ok?

Hmmm, Google searches don’t always lead to record sales. They haven’t for Adam in the past and they don’t today for people like Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton. Adam may be a tabloid sensation but whether his record sales will hold is another question.

Whatever was censored from Adam’s act by ABC is nothing new. Networks do it all the time on these live awards shows as well as other live shows. They bleep people and turn the camera away. That’s why these shows run on a short time delay. Every network also edits movies and TV shows, and not just to fit their time frame or allow for commercials. They literally replace the words in the actors’ mouths if they deem them inappropriate to whatever standards they have to operate under. That’s why you don’t see the same “Sex and the City” on the channel that’s rerunning it as opposed to what you saw on HBO, as one example.

There’ve been men kissing men on TV before. Depending on whether it’s premium cable, regular cable, or broadcast television it’s handled differently.

What ABC was responding to was having Adam decide what was appropriate on their show as opposed to themselves. Adam can have all the artistic freedom he wants but not on someone else’s dime. It’s ABC who has to answer to it’s sponsors, the audience, and the FCC, not Adam. And they are not running a gay rights forum or any other forum for someone’s rights, they are running a corporation.

I am sure CBS got guarantees that the same performance wouldn’t be repeated on their morning programming. I don’t think they would’ve been happy if it were.

Didn’t help that I found that Joanna/Derek pairing nasty anyway. Something just’ ¦ yuck’ ¦ about them together.

Derek is nasty under any circumstances. That guy just plain skeeves me out.

I didn’t watch the AMA performance, so I really have no opinion on the subject. Just as well though, since what could I possibly add to the debate at this point? LOL

I would not however watch any show with Chris Brown performing. His faux apologies have been filled with all the non-apology, code-speak that domestic abusers use time after time. Nothing new there. It’s just my opinion, but once you beat the shit out of your girlfriend, you no longer deserve a “contrition tour”.

I don’t know who it was with, my sister showed it to me on the computer and the dancer was pumping a woman’s head up in down in his crotch simulating a blow job.

If you’re referring to the Mambo Marathon dance then it definitely wasn’t a face plant to the crotch. Watch it again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-eMFnRi0M (~4:30). If you want to project that it was more then you go right ahead.

but any number of a hip hop artist or Rapper did it not so much!!! Eminem rapping about 17 rapes notched on his belt has done nothing to hurt him.

Why anyone wants to buy some of that crap, I don’t know. I like hip hop beats, I like some hip hop artists, but I’m not buying music that degrades women. I’ll stick with something like Lupe Fiasco’s great skateboarding song “Kick, Push,” lol. I don’t know why it’s acceptable to perform on award shows with their subject matter. Though it is laughable when they try to bleep it out – why perform it in the first place? Do people just not listen to the lyrics?

And no, it won’t hurt Eminem, he’s made a career on being raunchy. Nothing new, there. I think with Adam people are disappointed to see that kind of raunchy stuff from him. They don’t want him to be that kind of artist. Just a guess. I know I don’t.

So it was gentle and that made it ok?

If Adam gently rubbed the guys faces in his crotch and bought him dinner after wards it’s ok.

I have to laugh. I watched DWTS and was wondering what you were talking about. Folks, what Derek and Joanna were doing is the mamba, and that is a move that is common in the Mamba, not a sex act. Part of it was the angle you were seeing.

Squirrely
11/26/2009 at 12:04 pm

Derek Hough DID NOT shove Joanna Krupka’s face into his crotch. Her head was close to his crotch, but not shoved in it.

It was still a simulated blow job on a ‘family friendly’ program.

Remember that an ABC rep did say that got more complaints about DWTS then they did with Adam’s performance.

If you want to hear Kris playing DJ on Sirius Radio’s XM1, he is on right now

http://www.sirius.com/siriusxmhits1

Scroll down till you get to the part that says “Get a free trial” on the right and fill out that shit, then go to Music -> pop -> SIRIUS XM hits 1

ALSO: if you have Dish network you can listen on channel 6001

ETA 2: If you can’t hear it and you’re on a Mac, you might need to download this:
http://dynamic.telestream.net/downloads/download-flip4macwmv.htm

And if you miss it this time around, this program will be re-broadcast:

* NOV 26 @ 12pm, 4pm, and 8pm Eastern

* NOV 27 @ 3pm, 7pm and 11pm Eastern

* NOV 28 @ 12am, 4am, 8am, 12pm, 4pm and 8pm Eastern

* NOV 29 @ 3a, 7a, 11a, 3p, 7p and 11p Eastern.

He sounds good — he’s got a perfect voice for being a DJ

Jennifer is beautiful and earned her spot and so will the rest of them some day though i doubt that’s Adam dream now to perform at the white house.

It’s very cool that Jennifer was invited to perform at the White House and I am very, very happy for her. Regarding the Adam brouhaha, it has moved way beyond Adam. Although I didn’t like his AMA performance, I suspect a lot of people who didn’t like it are also unhappy about the debate. I think that the dialogue is good for the country. And who knows, Adam may indeed perform at the White House someday. After all, President G.W. Bush invited Ozzy Osbourne (not to perform but as a guest but it was still pretty surprising!) so you never know, today’s “bad boy” may someday be mainstream. And someday we might even have a gay president!

Derek Hough DID NOT shove Joanna Krupka’s face into his crotch. Her head was close to his crotch, but not shoved in it.

Regarding DWTS in my opinion it was just as graphic and inappropriate as what happened on the AMA’s, saying it isn’t is splitting hairs. He repeatedly thrust her head towards his crotch, I’m sure a lot of viewers missed it as there were several couples dancing all at the same time, but when I saw the clip someone posted here at MJ’s I was shocked, for real.

Happy Thanksgiving to most of you (I’m one of the exceptions)…

Well Adam’s move may have been common in the Zodiac world. It was still a simulated blow job and no one cared but if Derek did it to Maksim it would have been front page news.

It was still a simulated blow job on a ‘family friendly’ program.

Ummmm… Only if Derek is especially gifted so that his privates are down by his knees.

ETA: I didn’t notice it done ~2 mins. They do it at the end again (~4:30) and you can see it wasn’t intended to be a bj.

“I thought ABC was stupid for canceling Adam’s appearance. Having said that, I don’t think it was one specific act that caused the panic, rather it was the cumulative effect of the entire routine.”

Not only this, but I think the fact that none of the controversial elements of the routine were part of any of the rehearsals, they were not discussed/cleared with the producers prior to the live performance. Adam said many times afterward he was caught up in the moment, basically going way off script with his behavior on a nationally-televised show. Essentially, he admitted to being a loose cannon with his behavior, and I think that was the main problem. ABC had to make a choice between going forward with the GMA appearance or taking a chance on a performer who may or may not “forget” where he is/what he’s doing. They’re the ones responsible for the content of what is broadcast, and if they felt they couldn’t trust the performance, it’s their call.

Ummmm’ ¦ Only if Derek is especially gifted so that his privates are down by his knees.</blockquote

Anyone remember John Holmes?

I think this Adam story is a bit bigger than Idol news ‘” and with CBS blurring ‘the kiss photo’  on the air yesterday, they actually made the story even more a double standard. So what started out as a story about a possibly inappropriate performance [I leave people to make there own decision on this], has now become about how male and gay sexuality is portrayed on American Boradcast TV.

I agree. Idol watchers can’t seem to separate Adam from Idol but he is out of that bubble for sure now. lol I think this is turning into more than just a possible inappropriate performance.

I also notice Adam’s twitter followers are dramatically increasing since that, and his sales on Itunes at least have gone up. Particularly after his CBS and Letterman performances, which were outstanding. I’m not surprised Letterman didn’t cancel Adam since he has his own sex scandal he’s dealing with.

Adam is the one who played the discrimination card. In reality if a straight man like David Cook had shoved a women’s face into to his crotch on national television his career would be over IMO. So where is the double standard? I am sick of the whole thing.

Adam’s claim of double standard was (almost?) always in reference to the fact that female performers have been doing sexually charged numbers and that male performers hardly at all in recent years. He mentioned the fact that Janet Jackson grabbed a male dancers crotch on the same show (I don’t know if that’s a good parallel because I haven’t seen it). I think the double standard he’s citing is what they allow from women vs. men. He goes further to agree that the gay part might play into the uproar, because really, how else to explain the public/media bringing the kiss into the conversation?

But still, whether you liked the performance or not, found it tasteless or otherwise, I was mainly objecting to calling the media fest a “smokescreen”. I think it’s more of a fortunate turn of events. It took media attention off the weak performance until he had time to get some strong ones on the record, and, IMO, it opens up a discussion of something that needs attention. We can argue the particulars of each movement and how they compare to what other people of various genders and orientations have done or fake-done on TV, but to my mind, the fact that the kiss ever even came into the conversation – as a blurred out event, as something not suitable for children (and it has been mentioned that way in various comment sections), as something the media mentions in this story – is clear that there’s a double standard. A heterosexual kiss just would not have been even brought up.

But, enough of TV talk. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!! – Forgive my U.S.-centrism: have a great day, everyone, and thanks for all the good conversation!!

Not only this, but I think the fact that none of the controversial elements of the routine were part of any of the rehearsals

I was going to ETA this on my post, but yes, this too.

To lighten the mood, Boy George tweeted that the so-called bj looked like a “navel munch” to him. LOL I gotta agree. The frenetic nature of it caused Adam’s lunge to be a bit off target, imo.

BTW, I only know this because Lyndsay Parker retweeted BG’s calling the performance “vanilla fun.” I don’t actually follow BG. For some reason I felt the need to include this disclaimer.

He also referred to the kiss as textbook Ziggy. Interesting to read his view of it, despite his own sordid history.

They’re the ones responsible for the content of what is broadcast, and if they felt they couldn’t trust the performance, it’s their call.

Yup. It was their call, but it was a stupid call to me. Especially since they knew Adam wasn’t performing FYE and they had Rhianna on the other day. She performed with guns on stage and there are gun shots at the end of her song. If they’re going to have a standard of just Disney type performers then they should stick to that. Most of the performers they have on there are risque at some point of their careers.

Even that Right-wing family group said it was unfortunate that they canceled Adam’s performance.

What ABC was responding to was having Adam decide what was appropriate on their show as opposed to themselves. Adam can have all the artistic freedom he wants but not on someone else’s dime. It’s ABC who has to answer to it’s sponsors, the audience, and the FCC, not Adam. And they are not running a gay rights forum or any other forum for someone’s rights, they are running a corporation.

Finally someone that understands what the issue was…. I agree completely. Also think Adam planned this to get the extra media buzz and it worked. It’s a shame at what people do for publicity.

So it was gentle and that made it ok?

Her face was NOT in his crotch, gentle or otherwise.

It was a dance move, that could be taken to simulate sex, as he moved her head up and down along his leg. At one point, her head is next to his crotch, but not IN his crotch.

I’m not seeing a comparison here, at all.

Kirsten -”I think that ABC is annoyed that they spent so much promo on Adam, and then he turned around and broke agreements with them…”

Are you serious? ABC is loving this. As has been mentioned here before, they get more than 1500 complaints for a DWTS episode. It’s possible Adam went further than expected, but they knew he was going to do something controversial or they wouldn’t have even had him on as a brand new performer, much less have him close the show. This guarantees ABC great ratings for their next AMAs, which is what it ultimately comes down to. Even a fine equal to nipplegate would be a drop in the bucket. IMO ABC didn’t think they’d see a repeat on GMA, they’re trying to show the public their contrite. ABC – who could have hit he censor button before the offending images went out over the airways – chose not to do so. They also are not making YouTube take down the videos. These guys probably knew plenty and now tying to let it blow over. And Adam is claiming he improvised at the end because “falling on the sword” is the politically correct thing (businesswise) to do. It makes He producers of the AMAs look good.

Adam came off so well in his two hour CBS showcase and people are checking ou his music, so IMO things couldn’t be going better for him, which as a fan, please me a lot.

Well the blurring of the photo story has made the headline news in Europe. Saw it in one of our biggest newspaper today.

jasoncastro: FREE DOWNLOAD OF MY SINGLE ‘Let’s Just Fall In Love Again’  thanks to Coca-Cola. Get it here: http://tinyurl.com/cokemp3 ***pass it on!***

Does anyone know if a single is a free download, presumably being paid for by a sponsor such as Coca-Cola, would these downloads count towards the single’s sales?

To lighten the mood, Boy George tweeted that the so-called bj looked like a ‘navel munch’  to him. LOL I gotta agree. The frenetic nature of it caused Adam’s lunge to be a bit off target, imo.

I didn’t notice it myself until certain outlets made a big deal of it afterwards. Then I went and took a second look.

Not only this, but I think the fact that none of the controversial elements of the routine were part of any of the rehearsals

Whats amazing is that Adam did that same act with one of the female dancers, but yet no one found that controversial. There is a double standard. I actually think the biggest disappointment was Adam’s vocal performance that night. To be honest I half remember the actual performance show part. I guess I’m just not easily phased. Lady Gaga’s performance stands out to me more. Go figure.

Well the blurring of the photo story has made the headline news in Europe. Saw it in one of our biggest newspaper today.

Not surprising. The issue of the different treatment of GLBT individuals is actually the story. People will forget about Adam in a week if they haven’t already.

I think that the dialogue is good for the country.

Yes, nothing is better for a nation than an extended conversation about blow jobs. Man on man vs. female on man. Hours of fun. Maybe that actual scene from the AMA will be on a stamp one day

I read gay blogs and many aren’t exactly thrilled that the right to a simulated blow job on network TV is now seen as some step forward for gay rights.

butte009
11/26/2009 at 12:16 pm

It was still a simulated blow job on a ‘family friendly’ program.

Ummmm’ ¦ Only if Derek is especially gifted so that his privates are down by his knees.

ROTFLMAO… and that is where I am going to leave this topic as a joke that has gotten way out of hand and has become more then it is. No I don’t blame Adam for that, He is not that powerful. He is just a singer and that is where I am going to keep him in my mind.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. Thank you all for your post and opinions. The one’s I agree with and the one’s I don’t. You all help me not be boxed in with my thoughts and give me a better understanding of topics relating to Idols. A special thank you to MJ for diligently posting all the current news on all the idols and for having this blog in the first place. I am truly grateful for it. Thank you to Kirsten who brings the numbers slant to the table and who sometimes fills in for MJ. When MJ has something to do. (go figure MJ has a life outside of this blog )

Happy Thanksgiving!!! I love this cheesy show (and all the other cheesy shows that get posted here as well)

Even that Right-wing family group said it was unfortunate that they canceled Adam’s performance.

What group was that?

Kellie Pickler gave Adam a shout out

Adam Lamberts new CD is F-ing KILLER. I love “Music Again”…he reminds me of Freddie Mercury.

ABC is loving this. As has been mentioned here before, they get more than 1500 complaints for a DWTS episode. It’s possible Adam went further than expected, but they knew he was going to do something controversial or they wouldn’t have even had him on as a brand new performer, much less have him close the show. This guarantees ABC great ratings for their next AMAs, which is what it ultimately comes down to.

I just had to say do not be surprised when Adam will be performing on the show next year….that is my prediction! Happy Thanksgiving!

Thankfully, Adam seems to be surviving this — partly because it is clear that most of the content was seen by the AP reporter in dress rehearsal — so RCA, ABC, 19 and DCA had to know that it contained some explicit material — including a male-male oral sex sim.

There are rehearsal photos of much of the content. The additions to the final preformance appear to be the kiss, the fall/ninja roll and the finger at the end [which was not on the broadcast -- just seen live]. Plus, clearly the intensity of the performnace was not in the dress rehearsals. Finally, in the clips of the dress rehearsals, Adam’s vocal sounds great — and the actual performance was possibly the worst Adam Lambert vocal performance ever. [Adam saved from being ravaged for his singing in the press because there is no doubt that he can really sing.]

From MTV News:

Adam Lambert shocked fans by kissing his bandmate, dancing provocatively and giving the finger to his critics during his performance of “For Your Entertainment” at the American Music Awards. But he also impressed and amused several of those watching by managing to play off his stumble atop a stage riser like an old pro.

“I just can’t believe that I was up by the next lyric,” he marveled. “That was crazy.”

The moral of the story, if you stumble, figure out how to land back on your feet.

Janet Jackson was SHUNNED for accidentally exposing a nipple during the Super Bowl. No amount of ‘contriteness’  helped her. Chris Brown should be shunned by the media for what he did.

Yes, Janet’s carrer was derailed. But it did great things for Justin Timberlake’s career. Justin Timberlake won two Grammy awards in 2004 after the Super Bowl, established his acting career and became an even bigger star.

Another example of a double standard — imagine what would have happened it Janet was white and JT was a black man.

There are double standards all over the place.

Not surprising. The issue of the different treatment of GLBT individuals is actually the story. People will forget about Adam in a week if they haven’t already.

Yup, the spinning of the story in European press is very different from what I see on this blog. The blurring of the photo is giving Adam tons of free, very favourable, publicity. I haven’t seen Adam mentioned at all before this.

BTW, David Archuleta will be on Kaleidescope today at 2 pm Eastern on Fox. It is a show dedicated to cancer survivors. Some well-known skaters will be skating to music, and David is singing Christmas songs.

itsalleternal
11/26/2009 at 12:29 pm

Even that Right-wing family group said it was unfortunate that they canceled Adam’s performance.

What group was that

It was the PTC the same group who complained the most about the performance.

Yep I understand that MJ. I’m just frustrated that Adam’s entire promo cycle this week and more has been focused on the AMA fiasco and it should have been on the music. I do hope it’s over with but somehow I doubt it with Ellen and LKL still to come. It will no doubt be discussed there as well’ ¦’ ¦oh yeah.

yeah. but if it wasn’t this it wld have been something else. last week i was annoyed that his promo wld be over shadowed by OUT magazine questions and it wld have been too but that one took a back seat for this. so it’s kinda one week one trouble.lol

Finally someone that understands what the issue was’ ¦. I agree completely. Also think Adam planned this to get the extra media buzz and it worked. It’s a shame at what people do for publicity.

Well, people give him publicity willingly, then complain? I still don’t see what’s the big deal of the whole thing. Surely our kids have been exposed to much worse thing than some sex perf. Our society’s sensitivity over certain things continue to boggle my mind.

About Adam breaking the agreement with ABC thing still comes down to people making a big fuss about the perf. Had there not been all these outrageous outcry, who cares about some performer not sticking to rehearsal plan.

Adam seems to be not just surviving, but thriving despite the conservative backlash. It might be that he gained new fans just as he lost some…

ABC ‘“ who could have hit he censor button before the offending images went out over the airways ‘“ chose not to do so. They also are not making YouTube take down the videos. These guys probably knew plenty and now tying to let it blow over. And Adam is claiming he improvised at the end because ‘falling on the sword’  is the politically correct thing (businesswise) to do. It makes He producers of the AMAs look good.

Adam came off so well in his two hour CBS showcase and people are checking ou his music, so IMO things couldn’t be going better for him, which as a fan, please me a lot.

Exactly.

What was ABC promoting all night? Adam’s great vocals? Why didn’t they promote Kelly or Carrie in the same way since they have proven great vocals? Why have Adam’s performance at the least kid-friendly hour of the night? Because his vocals were going to be so good? Take away the kiss, simulated oral sex, and what exactly was so special about Adam’s performance? ABC knew. The airing was on a delay. We know that because Eminem was bleeped. They could have blacked out Adam’s allegedly offensive actions but they didn’t because they wanted the buzz they got. ABC is hardly a victim here and neither was the audience. If these antics really were offensive as they claim, people would have turned off their TVs when Janet ran her hand between her male dancer’s legs and fingered his crotch. And that was 8 pm Eastern. How many kiddies were watching then?

I don’t understand what ABC and GMA are doing here. They cancel Adam but have no issue with interviewing Chris Brown? I’m not against giving Chris Brown a second chance, necessarily, but that’s some wack reasoning going on at GMA.

This is hilarious! If that’s part of the mambo this momma is hoping her babies don’t grow up to be mambo dancers! People are seeing what they want to see, after all the DWTS performance was male/female so it’s not offensive. Well, I didn’t like it and I’m not exactly a prude. And it was on much earlier in the evening when TV is supposed to be family safe. Of course we all know there is no such hour on TV.

Man, this is all exhausting, lol. Come on Idol 9!

Whats amazing is that Adam did that same act with one of the female dancers, but yet no one found that controversial.

Waves……I did. I found the whole thing controversial and disgusting and we’ll leave it at that. I hated everything about that performance.

The blurring of the photo is giving Adam tons of free, very favourable, publicity. I haven’t seen Adam mentioned at all before this.

That’s just sad and pathetic.

I agree. Idol watchers can’t seem to separate Adam from Idol but he is out of that bubble for sure now. lol I think this is turning into more than just a possible inappropriate performance.

Y’all missed my point. It’s still an Idol story because Adam is an Idol. Just like when Jennifer Hudson’s family was murdered, or David Archuleta’s Dad was arrested. Beyond the Idol bubble yes, but still involving an Idol, so I cover it.

Having said all that, I’d still be tuning the story out, Idol related or not.

Another example of a double standard ‘” imagine what would have happened it Janet was white and JT was a black man.

Damn. Best point made in the four days of debating this issue.

“If Adam gently rubbed the guys face in his crotch and bought him dinner afterward it’s ok”

Squirrely, you have me LMAO!!

Whether Adam surving or thriving depends on his music ultimately. I think he knows that, and he doesn’t seem to be the type of person dwelling on the past and negativity. I happen to believe this kind of experiences keep the artistis sharp and alive.

Awe Jennifer I hope this holiday with her fiancee and son is a little less painful than last year.

That’s crap. He didn’t just run a traffic light. He beat a girl nearly to death. I don’t give a damn how contrite he is. Abusers are always contrite the day after. His ‘asking for forgiveness’  is to sell albums.

Well, that’s how it works in the States. There are a lot of people that feel that if you do the time for the crime (which he did…weren’t there pictures of him picking garbage on the side of the highway?) and you act contrite, they’ll give you a second chance. Mike Tyson was on Oprah and he not only badly beat his wife, he was convicted of rape. A few years ago, nobody thought Michael Vick would ever make a comeback and now he’s on some NFL team somewhere. The list goes on and on.

If Chris Brown does it again, he’ll find it even tougher to make a comeback (if he can at all). I’m not saying what he did is right (it was awful), but the nation tends to forgive if you ask for forgiveness and let you have another chance.

Janet Jackson was SHUNNED for accidentally exposing a nipple during the Super Bowl. No amount of ‘contriteness’  helped her.

A) Why do people keep saying that’s what she exposed? That’s the one thing she didn’t expose. She had some kind of jewelry on it.

B) I must have watched a different version of the AMAs than you because I’m quite sure that I saw Janet Jackson on TV so I thought the shunning was long since over and her “contriteness” worked. Heck, I could have sworn I saw her at the MTV awards too.

Chris Brown should be shunned by the media for what he did.

Well, it is your perogative to never give him a second chance and you may turn to be right about that, but forgiving people for crimes has a long history. I have no interest in his album, but obviously, others do because his latest single is at number 9 on Rhythmic and 8 on Urban. His song is on 18 on iTunes. His comeback has already started and people want he is producing.

I still say Adam got axed from ABC because they are annoyed with him and want to send a message. If they don’t, what’s to stop the next artist who wants to get headlines from doing even more outrageous things on their next show? By his own admission (to Jim C), Adam fipped the bird at ABC (and others) at the end of his performance because he knew they were going to censor him. He didn’t even give them a chance when they had given him this great opportunity. ABC probably thinks he’s a showboating ingrate and he put them in an untenable position (if they didn’t edit that bird and BJ on the west coast, they would have gotten in trouble) and started painting them as the bad guy before the west coast edition even aired.

They also are not making YouTube take down the videos.

Yes they have. Adam’s video is the one they are most diligent about having pulled down. The other performances aren’t having that problem. Try to use some of the youtube links posted on Sunday or Monday.

“I think that the dialogue is good for the country.”

jpfan “Yes, nothing is better for a nation than an extended conversation about blow jobs.”

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make, but that’s okay I’m ready to move on.

” I must have watched a different version of the AMAs than you because I’m quite sure that I saw Janet Jackson on TV so I thought the shunning was long since over and her ‘contriteness’  worked. Heck, I could have sworn I saw her at the MTV awards too.”

Janet was shunned following the incident by not being allowed to perform at the Grammy’s whereas Justin was allowed. But that was a long time ago and she has since been “forgiven”!

Another example of a double standard ‘” imagine what would have happened it Janet was white and JT was a black man.

There are double standards all over the place.

One of the truest statements I’ve read today thus far.

If Adam gently rubbed the guys faces in his crotch and bought him dinner afterwards it’s ok.

LOL. Somehow a gentle rub sounds even worse. That DWTS did look “pukey” (Tm Tierbee’s grandma), but it sort of looks like her face got “caught” in his crotch. Don’t think they meant for that to happen……Anyway, comparing a dance performance to a singing performance is like apples and oranges….different things are acceptable (or maybe I’ve watched one too many modern dance performances). Likewise, if the only dance move that David Cook did was to shove a girl’s face in his crotch, I would also be disgusted, whether or not it was gentle and whether or not he took her out for dinner. In David’s case, there would be no one campaigning for straight male rights and his career would probably be over. So I agree with 123. There is a big double standard. By they way, two of my closest gay friends (one who really liked Adam on idol), were very embarassed by his performance. It wasn’t the kiss that bothered them…it was everything else. They didn’t think he did anything to champion gay causes.

Yep I understand that MJ. I’m just frustrated that Adam’s entire promo cycle this week and more has been focused on the AMA fiasco and it should have been on the music.

I agree. Despite the lousy AMA performance, I think his album is very good. One of the few idol albums where I actually like more than two songs. It was ridiculous to expect a newbie to perform a huge choreographed piece better than some of the veterans. If you look back at how Beyonce, Madonna, Carrie, MJ or Pink peformed when they first started out, it’s obvious that there is a learning curve. I think they got into a rut by hyping up his AMA performance and then had to resort to shock value. Had Adam kept it simple (like on Letterman), he might not have been the talk of the show, but he would have won the respect of more people.

Kirsten -’ I think that ABC is annoyed that they spent so much promo on Adam, and then he turned around and broke agreements with them’ ¦’ 

What agreement did Adam break with ABC?

ABC cancelled the GMA performance right after the FCC complaint was filed. They wanted to respond in some way that demonstrated that they did not need to FCC to do anything. Cancelling the GMA performance was a way for them to be proactive. Note: this claim probably will not go anywhere — see below. Just like the 2004 SuperBowl FCC fine is still on appeal.

But regarding Adam’s performance, my guess is they are pretty happy about the ratings. In the last 30 minute segment with just Adam left to perform, they still had over 13 million views with great numbers amongst 18-49 adulits. That is the best audience number since 2002, and the best demographic result since 2004. [Looking at the prelimary demo and media market ratings -- seems like the Rap and Country fans dropped off during the 10:00-10:30PM segment.]

There are reports that there were a total of 6 million online viewers of this year’s AMAs. Plus, “Ustream scored big on its pre-event, red carpet coverage. According to figures shared by the company with Digital Music News earlier this week, Ustream attracted 3.4 million views on its pre-show, though the company also pointed to a downstream surge on Twitter. Over 20,000 tweets were inspired by the carpet cam, and the action was also spilling into Facebook and MySpace.” Source digital music news.

The increase in Ad Revenue from the great ratings and online ads vastly exceeds any potential fine from the FCC [highest fine ever was $500K for the 2004 SuperBowl -- still under appeal].

Finally, although I can see how people may have been offended by the content of Adam’s performance [I was mostly just disappointed in the poor singing, and lame choreo and set.] I can’t figure out what part of ABC’s broadcast Standards and Practices this performance violaed. There was no nudity or obscene language involved in Adam’s performance, and it was not in Prime Time — it was a late night segment.

ABC had the performance on their web page, at least it was there up until Tuesday, have not gone to their site to check since then.

Whether Adam surving or thriving depends on his music ultimately. I think he knows that, and he doesn’t seem to be the type of person dwelling on the past and negativity. I happen to believe this kind of experiences keep the artistis sharp and alive.

Of course. Our characters are shaped in moments of hardships, not when everything is going perfectly.

ABC had the performance on their web page, at least it was there up until Tuesday, have not gone to their site to check since then.

Yup! I see it all over the place myself.

BTW, if look at the rehearsal footage that ABC posted before the AMAs, the wardrobe guy said that Adam’s performance would be “an absolute spectical”, and that he was sure people would “be jaw dropping in a very, very good way”. ABC innocent and in the dark? Don’t think so.
Well, it was good for me…

I think the ‘how gays are treated in the media’  thing is a total smokescreen for a perfomance that was lousy and tasteless

That is the bottom line for me also. Nice summary.

What is most concerning to me is how he talks about his adrenaline kicking in and the spirit of the moment, etc., like he couldn’t help himself. Well, to allow yourself to go out of control and then suddenly “come to” afterwards, along with a total inability to even understand what the fuss was all about is problematic in my book.

ABC cancelled the GMA performance right after the FCC complaint was filed.

The FCC gets complaints about all kinds of things. It’ll be news if they actually fine ABC for the broadcast. The FCC has not done that yet.

Whats amazing is that Adam did that same act with one of the female dancers, but yet no one found that controversial.

He shoved a female dancer’s face into his crotch? I must have missed that.

What pisses me off now is that ABC de-booked Adam but has no problem booking Chris Brown. I get that Brown is paying his debt to society and he’s sorry and he won’t be doing anything controversial on the air but it looks a little like ABC prefers someone who committed felony assault on a woman to someone who is openly gay.

On another topic, I think Adam has a REALLY good chance of coming in 2nd nest week on the billboard chart. Susan Boyle messed up his #1. lol OR maybe it was the AMA’s that is helping him over-perform in sales. We’ll never know. Either way, its a good debut I think.

I find Adam and some gay rights groups sad-funny when they appear to aspire to the same rights (in this instance to perform in a sexual manner on stage) as women. Have they not noticed that since it’s introduction in 1923, women have not been able to get a single declaration of equality, the Equal Rights Amendment, passed??? Have they not noticed that women currently, with language tacked on to health care bills, are about to lose reproductive rights as they earlier (Hyde amendment) lost contraceptive rights??

I did not like Adam’s performance, but Rhianna’s struck me as all sorts of wrong before he even hit the stage at the AMAs. Bondage attire from a woman who was beaten and speaks for other abused women??? Many women will say it shouldn’t make a difference and they are right, it shouldn’t; but I can’t help but wonder about the fantasy lives of men in the audience. Adam is right that there is a double standard, but he seems not to notice that women performing sexually on stage is a micro-political statement, one that apparently is over Rhianna’s head…and Madonna’s, and Janet Jackson’s. When woman sexualize a performance they play into sexual steretypes a lot of us want no part of and which do the bulk of us grave political damage. Likewise, Adam’s performance played into a gay sexual stereotype at least some gay men and women want no part of, and which does them grave political damage.

A lot of women have been deeply offended by rap artists over the years; men rapping about rape and abuse are profoundly disturbing. That some men and women use women’s bodies to make money is nothing to aspire to. The same goes for men with men’s bodies. Adam can do better than that; he does not need that to succeed. Or, possibly, to fail. If he offends everyone’s sensibilites, where does he expect his concert audience to come from???

On another topic, I think Adam has a REALLY good chance of coming in 2nd nest week on the billboard chart. Susan Boyle messed up his #1. lol OR maybe it was the AMA’s that is helping him over-perform in sales. We’ll never know. Either way, its a good debut I think.

I don’t think he’d sell more than Gaga if you add her two album numbers. Looks like he will sell more than Rihanna though.

He shoved a female dancer’s face into his crotch? I must have missed that.

Yep. Right after the crotch-thing with the male dancer, Adam did the same thing with a female dancer, but so far not a single report or newscast or whatever has even pointed that one out.

BTW, for those who think YouTube’s been diligent about taking Adam’s AMA performance video down, there are plenty of videos of it still posted, including one with almost half a million views.

What agreement did Adam break with ABC?

ABC would have originally vetted the performance. They all agreed that what he was planning on doing was suitable for broadcast. ABC may have even negotiated out some previous suggestions for dance elements that they felt were too risque.

ABC is the one who pays the fines and gets to deal with all the enraged sponsors if somebody goes over the top, so I’m sure they have some veto power over the performances or at least some negotiations occur. ABC is probably even liable for some sort of law-suit should the dancer who was shoved without prior consent wishes to sue (which he would be unlikely to do because he would hurt his career. Back-up dancers have it rough). Typically, all involved gets sued.

I’m quite sure that if Lady Gaga had set her piano on fire without first asking them, they would have been mad at her too (since they needed to make sure that proper safety procedures were followed).

They also are not making YouTube take down the videos.

Not only are they pulling down all the YT videos of this performance, there are now several videos about DCA taking down the videos and censorship. Some include the choices bits in clips. These are people trying to get around the DCA rights ownership.

I don’t think he’d sell more than Gaga if you add her two album numbers. Looks like he will sell more than Rihanna though.

I think Adam will do well, but I will be surprised if he comes higher than 3rd or 4th.

The album RCA is touting with such hyperbole as the most anticipated of the year is ‘over-performing’? So before this media circus they expected him to sell less than 210-230k Black Friday week? Fascinating.

What pisses me off now is that ABC de-booked Adam but has no problem booking Chris Brown.

Maybe they can have him perform in the theatre they booked for Adam..or did 19/RCA pay for that?

Is the 210-230K prediction still on or have they change it?

Someone mentioned that they were frustrated that the AMA overshadowed the news cycle. Personally I think what happened was a stupid move, but to be honest, I don’t think Adam would have been in the news cycle that much if it wasn’t for the AMAs. He would have gotten a nice mention and thats about it. The word that his album was dropping would not have made it to so many ears. It remains to be seen what effect this will have, just depends on what promo occurs after the holidays. Americans are notorious for short term memories. I suspect this will be long forgotten in a few weeks – of course except for us in the idol bubble.

I get that Brown is paying his debt to society and he’s sorry and he won’t be doing anything controversial on the air but it looks a little like ABC prefers someone who committed felony assault on a woman to someone who is openly gay.

Yep. ABC must love getting that reputation. They made an openly gay guy the cornerstone of their AMA show and now they are homophobes.

I’m sure they are very thankful for Adam. They can’t win.

Let me guess, the censored Adam giving the bird because he was gay too? If Miley had done it, they would have left it in? Not likely.

Chris is a total read herring in my opinion. ABC is not condoning domestic abuse in any way. If they had had him singing on their show the day after the crime whilst allowing him to say in the interview that Rihanni deserved it, then we could make that claim.

No Adam was giving the bird to the homophobes. So by censoring him giving the finger, ABC was aligning themselves with the right wing. Or was he giving it to the editor of Out Magazine which means…oh never mind, all this rationalization is hurting my head.

At this point I’m ready for non stop simulated blow jobs on every network program. I’d just like something else to talk about.

Yep. Right after the crotch-thing with the male dancer, Adam did the same thing with a female dancer, but so far not a single report or newscast or whatever has even pointed that one out.

If he had just done that and kissed a female dancer or band member there would have been very little trouble. The controversy is due to the homosexual nature of the performance. And more specifically homosexual as in two men since obviously two women kissing doesn’t need to be censored and doesn’t cause a problem.

Q3: What agreement did Adam break with ABC?

Kirsten : ABC would have originally vetted the performance. They all agreed that what he was planning on doing was suitable for broadcast. ABC may have even negotiated out some previous suggestions for dance elements that they felt were too risque.

ABC is the one who pays the fines and gets to deal with all the enraged sponsors if somebody goes over the top, so I’m sure they have some veto power over the performances or at least some negotiations occur. ABC is probably even liable for some sort of law-suit should the dancer who was shoved without prior consent wishes to sue (which he would be unlikely to do because he would hurt his career. Back-up dancers have it rough). Typically, all involved gets sued.

Two points:

1. None of us has any idea what ABC, Dick Clark Productions and 19/Adam agreed to.

2. The male-male oral sex visual, guys on leashes, spin and drag of female dancer, hand on woman were all in the dress rehearsal. So what did Adam add to this performance that was broadcast and offensive? Kissing a man — hardly, ABC left that in on the rebroadcast. The only thing that they editted out was in the dress rehearsals and reported by the AP and other reporters who got to see it.

So, once again — what did Adam add that blindsided ABC? Looks to me like ABC and DCA knew about the male-male oral sex visual, and after the fact tried to deny that they knew it. BTW Larry Klein was at at least 3 Adam performance rehearsals.

Also, I don’t think much of the AMA performance — but I also think that the male face in the crotch for about 1-1/2 seconds is not exactly earth shattering.

Let me guess, the censored Adam giving the bird because he was gay too? If Miley had done it, they would have left it in? Not likely.

They didn’t censor this — the camera was already on a close-up of Adam when he put up his finger. So it was off camera in the live broadcast.

I still think it has nothing to do with being gay. There are many things entertainers do that should be off limits when on stage (imo). It’s pretty obvious network TV is going to have to eventually draw a line somewhere (so many examples to site, but won’t), so to me it’s a pretty simple thing, draw the lines and don’t let anyone overstep.

I haven’t weighed in too heavily on this, but it just seems funny to me that people are worrying about if this was all a smokescreen, or premeditated by Adam…..Adam Lambert does not have the power, or even the forethought to plan all of this and predict that he would have come out a winner in this scenario.

If I wanted some issue to die, I would just not discuss it. Which is why I didn’t run to MJ’s and pontificate about how many nails Adam had just hit into his coffin, ad infinitum. I wanted the memory of the bad vocals to die a quick death. And it did.

I like Adam, I really do. I thought the performance was pretty bad, although I was more offended by the bad vocals than the sexual stuff. ABC can say what they want, but I expected something very much like what happened. They kept telling us we wouldn’t believe our eyes, etc, etc. What was it that occured on stage that they didn’t expect. Take away the kiss and the simulated falaish(tm BWE), and what do you have? What did they think they had? I continue to call bullshit on them, really I do, because if for that it would have been a pretty pedestrian routine.

As for the double standard, it exists. The double standard that says even the idea of man on man sex is bad. The double standard that says the Janet should pay for boobgate, yet Justin not only thrives, but survives to give us dick in a box! The double standard that won’t trust Adam to perform a family friendly show, but will allow Chris Brown to continue his act of contrition tour, on same network is just funny to me. Also, maybe that Mambo move was family friendly, but many posters in comments on that youtube video didn’t see it that way, and this was before BJgate.

As for Adam continuing to grab headlines. That is going to continue to happen to him, he’s a lightning rod for this kind of stuff. He has acquitted himself really well by actually having a point of view, and is articulating it quite well. I’m quite proud of him for the way he’s handled most of it. The best thing about it is after all of the drama he can go into The Early Show, and Letterman, and be so thoroughly entertaining. That’s his job, that’s what he does, all of the other stuff really is just gravy.

1. None of us has any idea what ABC, Dick Clark Productions and 19/Adam agreed to.

While it is true that none of us were there for the negotiations, I don’t believe that we are totally in the dark. Both Adam and ABC/Dick Clark Productions have made claims as to what was added to the performance “in the moment”. Both claims are consistent in saying that the BJ and bird were not originally scheduled to be in the performance. Those are the things that were censored.

2. The male-male [BJ] visual, guys on leashes, spin and drag of female dancer, hand on woman were all in the dress rehearsal.

The last three elements were not censored. Adam said in an interview (I forget which one) that the first element was originally intended to be Adam just giving the guy a look (after the guy had crawled up. A saucy implication which ABC had no problem with). He has stated that even the dancer did not consent to what happened. These are Adam’s own words and no mention of such an element was reported from the rehearsals (which I’m sure somebody would have done if they’d seen it since we knew about a lot of the other outrageous stuff like the leashes).

He shoved a female dancer’s face into his crotch? I must have missed that.

Yes MJ he did, and it wasn’t just any dancer, it was Courtney Galliano from SYTYCD.

The photo is here http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/93312654/Getty-Images-Entertainment

I know she’s one of your favorites so maybee you should not see it.

ETA: not safe for work

Let me guess, the censored Adam giving the bird because he was gay too? If Miley had done it, they would have left it in? Not likely.

Irrelevant. Flipping the bird is always censored. “Fuck” is a word that is not allowed to be used on television. It is censored whether you are gay, straight, male, female.

However, allowing hetero dance moves and actions that are blatantly sexual while censoring homosexual dance moves and actions that are blatantly sexual is a double standard. And it needs to stop. Because it is, in fact, homophobic. Like it or not. Just because Adam fans have a reputation for abusing that word doesn’t mean there isn’t homophobia surrounding the decisions the media makes with regards to what they choose to air and not to air.

I find it very offensive that ABC has chosen to help Chris Brown promote his album. I don’t think that guy deserves a moment of airtime on any network. And doing this right on the heals of banishing Adam? Yeah. People are going to draw conclusions. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

He has stated that even the dancer did not consent to what happened.

No, he did not.

Painful to read Slezak’s little essay about Kris, and why he hasn’t sold well (enough) in his disc debuts.

It also saddened me that comments to the post were overwhelmingly negative about Kris. But then, when people are sounding off anonymously they feel free to go on the attack.

As someone who loved Kris on AI, and still believes he has a great voice and real musical savvy, I am wondering where the disconnect is. After all, Kris’s AI performances sold very, very well on iTunes.

Here’s what I can come up with (today):

1) He’s really not an AI kind of artist, just as (in another vein) Taylor were and Bo Bice were not. By this I mean, his sound is not what is selling big.

2) So what is his sound? not easily defined so far. His first album has a little bit of Maroon 5 vibe, a dash of Jason Mraz, a little bit of this and that., which he has copped to. It’s not fully developed yet.

3) The contrast between the TV performances and the post-Idol albums is a big factor here. Certainly, David Cook and Carrie Understood and Jordin took a much more commercial tack after Idol. But IMO Kris was really well suited to a format that let him do very fresh arrangements of some great oldies. Going from that to a batch of so-so original tunes cobbled together in haste is quite a contrast. And this explains (to me anyway) why LLWD is the best cut — it was pre-written and album-ready for Kris’s strong interpretation.

Though I hate this part, I also do recognize that Kris may not be splashy enough for the demands of current pop superstardom. He’s a sweet, droll, low-key guy who doesn’t have any of the poise or flash that Adam has, nor is his voice as utterly distinctive as David Cook’s. And increasingly, your look has as much importance as your sound — it’s impossible to imagine Bob Dylan, Ella Fitzgerald, Neil Young or lots of other musical giants who have zero glam making it as big today. And it’s far too easy to imagine a lot more Jessica Simpsons et al.

I still believe Kris is very gifted, and I won’t give up on him. But because AI has crowned a number of commercially successful music stars, that doesn’t mean all of the winners can be easily slotted, boxed and marketed. Or that every winner is ready to turn this huge media opportunity into solid gold.

No Adam was giving the bird to the homophobes. So by censoring him giving the finger, ABC was aligning themselves with the right wing. Or was he giving it to the editor of Out Magazine which means’ ¦oh never mind, all this rationalization is hurting my head.

Hm, to whom was that bird directed? Maybe to America Idol TV viewers who voted him 2nd? Maybe to people who made fun of his glamour shots photos? Maybe it was to the audience who watched his performance with bemusement?– I mean, he did fall.

The whole performance just seemed desperate and silly. It’s funny that Adam’s kiss reminded me of Al Gore’s “infamous” kiss back in 2000. Gore had an agenda then, just as Adam had one on Sunday. Both were calculated, agenda pushing manoeuvers. And it seems to have worked for Adam, so well played then.

The photo is here http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/93312654/Getty-Images-Entertainment

I know she’s one of your favorites so maybee you should not see it.

I can’t even imagine how much gel and hairspray he had to use to keep his hair up that high.

Man, I am really sick of the Adam controversy (but I’m addicted to it at the same time). It’s like we are all saying the same things over and over again for almost four days (I’m sorry for MJ that have to read all this comments every day). Adam lovers in one side and Adam haters (or haters of his performance) on the other. But I don’t see this going away anytime soon (ast least not in the Idol Bubble).
The thing is that after Adam’s not so good performance on the AMA’s, the people that dislike him thought “finally this clown is ruined – his career is over before it even started”. They were really happy. And his fans were in mortal fear the they could be right.
But that didn’t happen. For many reasons, the controversy ended up being positive, he getting exposure outside the Idol buble, favorable press, and to top it all, his albuns sales are good (if not great).
There’s no way people are gonna stop talking about it (not inside the idol buble). The people that hate him, and are really disappointed and furious that the hole thing didn’t blow up in his face, are not gonna stop trying to spin this thing to make him look like a “oportunistc weasel”. And there’s no way his fans are gonna stop gloating that he is doing well.
I guess I have to accept the fact that I’m going to continue losing several work hours on MJ’s for a while (seriouslly, I can ´t stop!).
What really matters at the end (and also was reapeted to death on this blog already)is there’s no way Adam is going to build a career on controversy alone. He is a new artist and he’s going nowhere if people don’t like he’s music.
By the way, I’m one of those that come here to gloat! haha

I can’t even imagine how much gel and hair spray he had to use to keep his hair up that high.

That’s your first thought when you see this picture lol.

“B) I must have watched a different version of the AMAs than you because I’m quite sure that I saw Janet Jackson on TV so I thought the shunning was long since over and her ‘contriteness’  worked. Heck, I could have sworn I saw her at the MTV awards too.”

The facts rather than fiction: Janet Jackson was not allowed to perform on the Grammy’s the year of the “incident.” She had been booked, and they cancelled her appearance. She wasn’t on talk shows where she could have explained her side of it. Her career went in the tanker for awhile after that. So, yes, indeed, Kirstan. She was shunned. This year marks her “triumphant return.” And I think we can all assume it’s due, at least in part, to the untimely death of her brother.

And don’t get me started on Michael Vick being allowed back in the NFL. Disgusting, IMO.

colette>
I’m a huge fan of the type of music Kris puts out… I have albums of similar music from the AI performances to the soft pop album. There is a place for it in the industry & I’m not exactly sure why he hasn’t made a bigger splash. Despite being a fan of this sort of music, Kris never hit a cord with me. Something about him never clicked for me. I don’t know exactly why.. he should have been my favorite. I spent time trying to figure this out, seriously. It was a curiosity for me & a puzzle I would like to solve.

Yep. ABC must love getting that reputation. They made an openly gay guy the cornerstone of their AMA show and now they are homophobes.

I’m sure they are very thankful for Adam. They can’t win.

They did win. They got their ratings out of it. That was their first goal and they were successful. Their subsequent handling of the situation has been somewhat sloppy but they got ratings out of it.

Americans are notorious for short term memories. I suspect this will be long forgotten in a few weeks ‘“ of course except for us in the idol bubble.

Very true. It may be awhile but I don’t think that will be the last time Adam performs, especially since Chris Brown is starting to get gigs already.

Adam called it into ChumFM, this afternoon with DJ Richie. I found it on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOdL_FM_YUs

A lot of women have been deeply offended by rap artists over the years; men rapping about rape and abuse are profoundly disturbing. That some men and women use women’s bodies to make money is nothing to aspire to. The same goes for men with men’s bodies. Adam can do better than that; he does not need that to succeed. Or, possibly, to fail. If he offends everyone’s sensibilites, where does he expect his concert audience to come from???

Excellent post Nina1

I still think he’s very gifted, and I won’t give up on him. But because AI has created some commercially successful music stars, that doesn’t mean all of the winners can be easily slotted, boxed and marketed.

Colette: I believe Kris’s sound is a good fit for today’s market, but maybe not the AI bubble market. Today I discovered something interesting on itunes. Kris’s banner on the pop page says nothing about American Idol, whereas Adam’s does. It says flamboyant American Idol favorite…

I think you’re right not to give up on Kris, because given the chance with concerts, Christmas promo and radio play I believe he has a great chance of growing as an artist in the general public’s eye.

I have also found it interesting that a couple of sites that hate or strongly dislike idol actually really like Kris’s album. There have been some great reviews in college papers for it as well.

The facts rather than fiction: Janet Jackson was not allowed to perform on the Grammy’s the year of the ‘incident.’  She had been booked, and they cancelled her appearance. She wasn’t on talk shows where she could have explained her side of it. Her career went in the tanker for awhile after that. So, yes, indeed, Kirstan. She was shunned. This year marks her ‘triumphant return.’  And I think we can all assume it’s due, at least in part, to the untimely death of her brother.

yes. Janet never bounced back from that. I still can’t believe Justin Timberlake wasn’t blamed for that at all. He was the one that ripped it off…..

Colette: I believe Kris’s sound is a good fit for today’s market, but maybe not the AI bubble market. Today I discovered something interesting on itunes. Kris’s banner on the pop page says nothing about American Idol, whereas Adam’s does. It says flamboyant American Idol favorite’ ¦

Kris has to find a way to stand out from the John Mayers, Jason Martz’s, etc. Right now he just blends in. Flying under the radar might have worked on Idol, but I don’t think it will in the real world.

Yes MJ he did, and it wasn’t just any dancer, it was Courtney Galliano from SYTYCD.

The photo is here http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/93312654/Getty-Images-Entertainment

I didn’t see that – how long after the guy-in-the-crotch part happened? I turned it off for a bit right after that; as I’ve said before, that’s where he lost me.

The photo is here http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/93312654/Getty-Images-Entertainment

And yuck, BTW, I would’ve turned the channel for that, too. There’s nothing sexy about that, it looks like he’s molesting a child. Courtney looks like a tarted up pre-teen there, lol.

So by censoring him giving the finger, ABC was aligning themselves with the right wing

Excuse me but they are FAR from right wing. And how are you any different from them now? You discredit an entire political philosophy cause a (left wing) network dissed Adam. That is wrong. You can’t talk about homophobia if you are going to malign the right wing.

-A conservative Adam fan.

I can’t even imagine how much gel and hair spray he had to use to keep his hair up that high.

That’s your first thought when you see this picture lol.

Yes, after three days of debate, I’ve decided to move on to superficial topics.

I didn’t see that ‘“ how long after the guy-in-the-crotch part happened? I turned it off for a bit right after that; as I’ve said before, that’s where he lost me.

It’s when he is climbing the stairs immediatly after the guy-in-the-crotch part but it was shooted mostly by a camera behind his back, that’s why not many people have pointed it IMO.

1) He’s really not an AI kind of artist, just as (in another vein) Taylor were and Bo Bice were not. By this I mean, his sound is not what is selling big.

2) So what is his sound? not easily defined so far. His first album has a little bit of Maroon 5 vibe, a dash of Jason Mraz, a little bit of this and that., which he has copped to. It’s not fully developed yet.

3) The contrast between the TV performances and the post-Idol albums is a big factor here. Certainly, David Cook and Carrie Understood and Jordin took a much more commercial tack after Idol. But IMO Kris was really well suited to a format that let him do very fresh arrangements of some great oldies. Going from that to a batch of so-so original tunes cobbled together in haste is quite a contrast. And this explains (to me anyway) why LLWD is the best cut ‘” it was pre-written and album-ready for Kris’s strong interpretation.

4)Though I hate this part, I also do recognize that Kris may not be splashy enough for the demands of current pop superstardom. He’s a sweet, droll, low-key guy who doesn’t have any of the poise or flash that Adam has, nor is his voice as utterly distinctive as David Cook’s. And increasingly, your look has as much importance as your sound ‘” it’s impossible to imagine Bob Dylan, Ella Fitzgerald, Neil Young or lots of other musical giants who have zero glam making it as big today. And it’s far too easy to imagine a lot more Jessica Simpsons et al.

1) Kris is the epitamy of an AI artist, and his music is what is selling. This is why many people thought he would be more successful than Adam.
2) Kris has defined his music since the AI show.
3) His album and style is very commercial.
4) He doesn’t need to be flashy. Kelly, Carrie, Daughtry, and Cook are not flashy. Kris is certainly much better looking than Daughtry, so Kris’s looks aren’t in question.

It’s when he is climbing the stairs immediatly after the guy-in-the-crotch part

Yeah, definitely would’ve missed it even if it was front and center because I was watching MLS Cup at that point.

He shoved a female dancer’s face into his crotch? I must have missed that.

Yup, and thats the point some of us are making. Whether or not one thinks Adam’s performance was bad taste is besides the point to me at this point, but its what people have decided to focus on. No one is saying anything about Adam and the female dancer. Its ok he simulated oral sex with a woman, but we get up in arms regarding the male dancer. I have not seen 1 article bring up what he did to the female dancer at all. So that proves there is some sort of double standard or at least people are immune to male/female type sexual stuff performed by entertainers.

Adam is trying to break a glass ceiling which is going to be a VERY rough road ahead.

Chris is a total read herring in my opinion. ABC is not condoning domestic abuse in any way. If they had had him singing on their show the day after the crime whilst allowing him to say in the interview that Rihanni deserved it, then we could make that claim.

So picking up garbage on the side of the road is doing “time for the crime” (smashing your girlfriend’s face in) and as long as they don’t have him on the day after he explodes in violence claiming she deserved it, it’s perfectly fine? All righty, then!

As far as I’m concerned, shame on the judicial system for giving this thug a slap on the wrist. And shame on ABC for their major hypocritical ways in giving him a platform to promote his new album (helping him to make millions) while using the controversy to goose ratings (“Chris Brown answers back!”). I could never in a million years bring myself to defend this guy regardless of how I felt about Adam or his controversy. Chris Brown is no red herring; ABC is showing some serious douchery here.

Kris has to find a way to stand out from the John Mayers, Jason Martz’s, etc. Right now he just blends in. Flying under the radar might have worked on Idol, but I don’t think it will in the real world.

Well, it seems his single has been standing out on radio play and feedback lately, so we’ll see.

I have not seen 1 article bring up what he did to the female dancer at all. So that proves there is some sort of double standard or at least people are immune to male/female type sexual stuff performed by entertainers.

I really, honestly think that rather than a double standard – it’s that people flat out didn’t see that. There may be other reasons for an argument of a double standard, but not that one, I don’t think. I really don’t think people saw it.

Its ok he simulated oral sex with a woman, but we get up in arms regarding the male dancer.

And if we’re talking a general “we,” I would’ve been griping about that as well had I seen it. Vulgar, once again.

That’s your first thought when you see this picture lol.

Yes, after three days of debate, I’ve decided to move on to superficial topics.

I hated the performance, not fond of the aftershow whinging, thought GMA was lame to cancel Adam, thought CBS was lamer to blur out a kiss of Adam kissing a guy and 3 seconds later show Brit-Brit/Madonna kiss, over the whole damn thing by now. Yaawwnn.

So yes, Adam’s hair…I liked it. Not as much as I liked it in rehersal shots, but I liked it. Hair was a bit off on the CBS morning show, but kind of looked okay. This is where it did actually move as part of Adam’s performance and got a bit uneven looking. Liked his hair for his Letterman performance. And I really liked his outfits for the CBS morning show and the Letterman performance. Both were great. I need that skull scarf in my life, btw.

That is wrong. You can’t talk about homophobia if you are going to malign the right wing.

-A conservative Adam fan.

Thank you! It irritates the hell out of me when people assume or insinuate every Adam-critic is conservative or every conservative hates Adam.

My thoughts while Adam was performing were something like, “oh, fuck,” and my main objection was his poor vocals. I think he’s better than that, but I’m not going to lose any respect/fanhood because he did something risque at around 11 o’clock at night.

No one is saying anything about Adam and the female dancer.

That’s because most people didn’t see it (due to the camera angles). I haven’t even mentioned by the defenders until after Adam himself pointed it out in the EW interview. The one with the male was front and center. You could only miss it if you watched the west coast feed.

What I have seen people say is that they wouldn’t have cared what the sex of the dancer was. I have yet to see a single solitary person claim that it would be okay to censor one and not the other. But, the other wasn’t obvious. The photographer caught it because he was at a different angle. Maybe by that time the guys in the control booth had figured out what might happen “in the moment” on the stairs and switched to a different camera angle that would make it less obvious (censored in advance.. Or maybe they got lucky.

I don’t feel like going back and watching that mess again, so I’ll just have to go by memory that it wasn’t obvious (and it would have been censored if it was).

1) Kris is the epitamy of an AI artist, and his music is what is selling. This is why many people thought he would be more successful than Adam.

I have to disagree with you here. The epitome of every other winner has been a big voice. Perhaps this is why the itunes banner doesn’t say anything about AI, whereas Adam’s does.
Personally, I never proclaimed that Kris was going to sell big, esp. out of the box. I saw the writing on the wall from the beginning. I just simply believe he’s as talented as Adam.

I really, honestly think that rather than a double standard ‘“ it’s that people flat out didn’t see that. There may be other reasons for an argument of a double standard, but not that one, I don’t think. I really don’t think people saw it.

I think its a conditioning. We’re conditioned to think its “ok”. Yes, some people jump up and scream, but its basically an accepted part of society, whereas gay men it is not. Lesbians play into some straight men’s fantasies so I’m assuming thats why that is more accepted than gay men, which a lot of straight men see as being “weak” and “feminine”.

If ABC cancelled Adam’s GMA performance to send him a message, I believe it would be because Access Hollywood posted an interview with him. – prior to the show even airing out here in the west – where he said that if his performance was edited it would amount to censorship. I cringed a little for him then because I figured the suits at ABC are not gonna like that. Notice he was much more diplomatic when discussing ABC’s decision to cancel his GMA appearance.

A few weeks back I posted a comment here that I thought Adam’s performance would be OTT and that I hoped if he did anything naughty I hoped it wouldn’t be edited out before the show aired on the west coast. Now if some out of the loop schlub posting on a blog could anticipate something happening – based really on how bold he got toward the end of the idol tour – then the savvy suits producing the AMAs could too, which is why a brand new artist was given the pimp spot at the end of the show. The argument that ABC was somehow duped has so many holes in it it’s taking on water faster than the Titanic. And for those who somehow think Adam’s peers in the music industry are morally superior to him, I’d bet some of them are jealous as he’ll at what he had the nerve to do, because their performances have been forgotten, and he’s the new bad boy.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

That’s because most people didn’t see it (due to the camera angles).

Nah. the camera angles have nothing to do with it. A lot of people DID see it. Society has conditioned people to think thats ok. We see men/women sexuality all over the place. Billboards, magazines, tv shows, movies, etc. The issue came when Adam did it with his male dancer because it is not yet accepted into society.

Kris is the only S8 idol to have any presence in the radio marketplace, so I disagree with those saying he doesn’t have a sound that fits in. No other idol from this season has made any headway whatsoever on radio so far. Adam is hoping to find traction on what looks to be his third release, and Allison is also struggling with radio airplay for whatever reason. Adam’s first week sales are higher, but he’ll need radio play to continue selling.

Love, like, or hate LLWD, I don’t believe it has had one week yet of negative spincrease since it was released on either Top 40 or HAC format. Next week, it’s #41 on the BB Hot 100. So yes, Kris has a sound that works for radio. His album sales are starting from a hole (compared to other idols), but I believe his release is Jive’s second highest debut all year. Sustained radio play over the holidays with a new single coming sometime next year will keep his album selling.

Thank you! It irritates the hell out of me when people assume or insinuate every Adam-critic is conservative or every conservative hates Adam.

My thoughts while Adam was performing were something like, ‘oh, fuck,’  and my main objection was his poor vocals. I think he’s better than that, but I’m not going to lose any respect/fanhood because he did something risque at around 11 o’clock at night.

I’m a Liberal and from a family of Liberals and while I wasn’t offended by Adam’s performance, I stil hated it. I thought iwas sloppy vocally, and yeah, OTT and vulgar. Male or female, it was and it was unnecessary. And while I was disappointed in Adam, didn’t stop me from being a fan of his. And being a fan, didn’t stop me from critcizing the performance as being vugar…and a hot mess vocally.

But on the other hand, I don’t care. Liked his performances vocally and otherwise on the CBS morning show and Letterman. That’s all I need.

And more importantly, Happy Thanksgiving everybody! I will be enjoying my stuffing soon. mmmmmm stuffing.

Kris’s Live Like You’re Dyin’ music video was featured in VH1′s top 20 countdown last weekend (I think it was #16 and it had just been premiered on the show the previous week.) If only a fraction of the people who voted for him on A1 go to the VH1 site and vote week after week his video will continue to be played giving non AI viewers the chance to become fans.

” Kris has to find a way to stand out from the John Mayers………..”

This is not true at all. Kris is nothing like Jason Mraz and I think he has a shot of doing better. Kris has a current sound and the sound of his album sells. It’s just a matter of time and he will be fine.
It’s the idol fans who are so into these first week sales thing. I have said it right from the beginning that the approach Jive is taking is that of a new artist kind of thing. I think it’s working perfectly for them.

Squirrely
11/26/2009 at 12:04 pm

Derek Hough DID NOT shove Joanna Krupka’s face into his crotch. Her head was close to his crotch, but not shoved in it.

It was still a simulated blow job on a ‘family friendly’ program.

I think I need to get out more … or get a dirtier mind. So THAT’s how a blow job is done. WHo knew!?!

Here I thought he was simulating weight lifting. It was the most idiotic looking ‘dance move’ I’ve ever seen. The only thing that impressed me was how she was keeping her back so straight. Well, that and not punching him in the stomach when she was finally vertical.

Nah. the camera angles have nothing to do with it. A lot of people DID see it. Society has conditioned people to think thats ok. We see men/women sexuality all over the place. Billboards, magazines, tv shows, movies, etc. The issue came when Adam did it with his male
dancer because it is not yet accepted into society.

unique28v, I have the video of the performance, they were filming most of that sequence from Adam’s back so it was not nearly as clear as the other sexual scenes.

If you go back on the live blog thread or some threads that immediately followed, nobody even mentioned it. Even the posters who were already suggesting the double standard argument didn’t bring that up.

I can’t even imagine how much gel and hair spray he had to use to keep his hair up that high.

That’s your first thought when you see this picture lol.

Bill Kaulitz of Tokio Hotel has to use cans of it. These guys aren’t helping the ozone layer but you gotta do what you gotta do. Lulz.

oh nvm

HAPPY THANKSGIVING MJ AND EVERYONE!

thedavidcook —
Happy thanksgiving, everybody. Operation Eat A Whole Pumpkin Pie is a GO!

LOL. Go, Cookie, go!

will, I never thought exasperation could translate into typed word but… you’ve managed to do it. LOL!!!

Hair was a bit off on the CBS morning show, but kind of looked okay. This is where it did actually move as part of Adam’s performance and got a bit uneven looking.

ITA!- I thought it was almost going the Gumby route. It looked ok, but I wanted to push it back up. He still looked and sounded great however.

And yes, Happy Thanksgiving indeed! Waiting for 4:30 family get together with mom’s big ol’ Thanksgiving feast. Yay mom! I’ll never get too old for mom’s cooking

I have not seen 1 article bring up what he did to the female dancer at all. So that proves there is some sort of double standard or at least people are immune to male/female type sexual stuff performed by entertainers.

It is our knowledge of the existence of a double standard that allowed Adam’s tacky performance to be turned into something positive for him.

unique28v, I have the video of the performance, they were filming most of that sequence from Adam’s back so it was not nearly as clear as the other sexual scenes.

If you go back on the live blog thread or some threads that immediately followed, nobody even mentioned it. Even the posters who were already suggesting the double standard argument didn’t bring that up.

Well, I noticed it. lol

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year. They usually have Carrie on 4-5 times so there’s room for other Idols to come back.

Obviously they will bring Kris and Allison back. The question then is Adam and Danny.

Kris is the only S8 idol to have any presence in the radio marketplace, so I disagree with those saying he doesn’t have a sound that fits in.

Kris is the only season 8 Idol who has been effectively promoted to radio, which reminds me – I heard WWFM twice on KIIS yesterday. Hello, RCA? Radio will play this one…..

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year. They usually have Carrie on 4-5 times so there’s room for other Idols to come back.

Heh, I wonder when he’ll perform FYE again.
Ellen?

adamlambert Happy T Day! I’m thankful for all the amazing opportunities and for all of my passionate and loyal fans. Wouldn’t be happening w/o u

oh nvm

HAPPY THANKSGIVING MJ AND EVERYONE!

I understand.

And Happy Thanksgiving Will.

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year.

Not unless he pulls some more crazy stunts. However, I’m gonna be surprised if he turns up in Times Square New Years Eve which is not only ABC but broadcast live. (Ryan Seacrest is involved but as far as I know he doesn’t call the shots as it’s Dick Clark Productions.)

Have a great Thanksgiving one and all! Thanks MJ for a great blog. I couldn’t get in at all yesterday morning for quite some time and there really isn’t anywhere else to go like this so I was sads.

Time to listen to FYE.

Love, like, or hate LLWD, I don’t believe it has had one week yet of negative spincrease since it was released on either Top 40 or HAC format. Next week, it’s #41 on the BB Hot 100. So yes, Kris has a sound that works for radio. His album sales are starting from a hole (compared to other idols), but I believe his release is Jive’s second highest debut all year. Sustained radio play over the holidays with a new single coming sometime next year will keep his album selling.

What was Jive’s highest selling debut of an album this year? And really with 80K Kris is their second highest selling debut of the year? Whoa.

And yeah, much as I personally don’t like the song LLWD, yeah, it has definitely established a radio presence, (yay!) which yes, I think over the long run can stand the album in good stead. And hopefully it can do well to release another singe…NOT WAOF, but maybe AWM or CSA or something like that.

What was Jive’s highest selling album this year? And really with 80K Kris is their second highest selling debut of the year? Whoa.

And not by much.

Posted by Rodze at Pulse:

1. Ciara – Fantasy Ride 80,890
2. Kris Allen ‘“ Kris Allen ‘“ 80,072
3. Three Days Grace ‘“ Life Starts Now ‘“ 79,230
4. Charlie Wilson – Uncle Charlie – 58,110
5. Jordin Sparks ‘“ Battlefield ‘“ 47,637
6. Backstreet Boys ‘“ This Is Us ‘“ 41,546
7. Relient K ‘“ Forget And Not Slowing Down ‘“ 33,940
8. Britney Spears ‘“ Singles Collection ‘“ 26,818
9. Bowling for Soup – Sorry for Partyin’ – less than 6,000

He has stated that even the dancer did not consent to what happened.

That’s not what he said Kirsten. He said the dancer didn’t know it was going to happen, but that he wouldn’t have done it if he didn’t think the dancer would be cool with it. Saying he “did not consent” implies an unwanted sexual assault. Until the dancer files a police report there’s no basis for that claim.

He shoved a female dancer’s face into his crotch? I must have missed that.

Yes MJ he did, and it wasn’t just any dancer, it was Courtney Galliano from SYTYCD.

The photo is here http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/93312654/Getty-Images-Entertainment

I see her face near his crotch, not on it. Adam himself has claimed he did the “exact same move” with a female dancer and nobody had a problem with it. That seems to be an exaggeration and a red herring.

Love, like, or hate LLWD, I don’t believe it has had one week yet of negative spincrease since it was released on either Top 40 or HAC format. Next week, it’s #41 on the BB Hot 100. So yes, Kris has a sound that works for radio.

My comments about why Kris is lagging in sales behind all other AI winners (if it’s true what I’m reading) come from great interest and appreciation in his music. I was with him all the way, and hope he has a wonderful career.

I hope that the radioplay increases his sales, but so far it’s not doing so. And one of my points was that LLWD is one of the best cuts on his album anyway.

I don’t like that every Idol is compared to the last, and that the only yardstick of success is gold records. I’m just trying to sort out why Kris sold so well while on Idol, and why there isn’t the same demand for his album. I’m a big fan, but I do think the album doesn’t capture the essence of Kris as his best. That’s not sacrilege, just trying to keep things real…..

Kris is now in the Top 50 on FIVE separate Billboard charts with his single. Not so bad for a song people were calling a flop a few weeks back…

BILLBOARD HOT 100
This Week’s Chart Pos. #41*

* #70
Last week’s position
* 4
Weeks on chart
* #41
Peak

Also Charted On
#38 Pop Songs (LW data N/A)
#44 Christian Song…(LW data N/A)
#34 Digital Songs…(re-entry)
#18 Adult Pop Song…(up 2 spots from LW)

http://www.billboard.com/#/charts/hot-100?begin=41&order=position

1) Kris is the epitamy of an AI artist, and his music is what is selling. This is why many people thought he would be more successful than Adam.
2) Kris has defined his music since the AI show.
3) His album and style is very commercial.
4) He doesn’t need to be flashy. Kelly, Carrie, Daughtry, and Cook are not flashy. Kris is certainly much better looking than Daughtry, so Kris’s looks aren’t in question.

1) Kris is the epitamy of an AI artist, and his music is what is selling. This is why many people thought he would be more successful than Adam.

Outside of the Idol bubble [Slezak, Rickey, Jim C. and Kris fans], most people in the music industry did not have high expectations for Kris commercially. And if you look at the press after the final vote was announced, many, many industry experts [including Simon] expected Kris to do just OK but Adam to be commercially successful. Just compare the statements in the press release statement from 19/Sony about Kris and Adam recording contract.

2) Kris has defined his music since the AI show.

As what?

3) His album and style is very commercial.

Based on sales, it is apparently not that commercial —

4) He doesn’t need to be flashy. Kelly, Carrie, Daughtry, and Cook are not flashy. Kris is certainly much better looking than Daughtry, so Kris’s looks aren’t in question.

These comparisons make no sense. Kris isn’t selling because 1. He doesn’t have very many fans and/or 2. The fans he had didn’t like the album enough to buy it. and/or 3. Core Idol fans decided not to buy Kris’ album and are buying other music.

Kris’ album is not selling like past winner’s albums. Currently, Kris Allen album is at #42 on iTunes, #39 on Amazon CD, #45 Barnes & Nobel CD Bestsellers, #23 Best Buy New Releases [past 30 days].

I have a theory about why Kris’ album isn’t doing very well — it is a 4-letter word that is not Adam — GLEE. This is the first year that an Idol winner is up against Glee product and there is a lot of it. I think it is possible that Glee has taken some of the Idol market share. Which would have a bigger effect on Kris than Adam. [I do not think that most of Adam's core fans or buyers are Idol fans.]

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year.

Eh, I’m pretty sure they will. Why not? They have nothing against Adam and they welcome their contestants back every year. They have had all sorts of musicians there in the past.

Kris is the only season 8 Idol who has been effectively promoted to radio, which reminds me ‘“ I heard WWFM twice on KIIS yesterday. Hello, RCA? Radio will play this one’ ¦..

Adam and Allison have been promoted and pushed too. Radio just didn’t pick them the way they picked Kris song.

1. Ciara ‘“ Fantasy Ride 80,890

That’s all this album sold in the US overall or is this still a one week thing?

If this is all she sold why do people get their panties in a bunch over unit moved if established artists are doing so poorly.

For those who haven’t seen this chart yet, this is a map of all the stations in the US & worldwide who are spinning LLWD – including call letters, location, format and whether or not the song has officially been added.

Credit to ONTD_AI (where I found it originally), but I think it was put together from someone at KrisTogether. I don’t know who exactly – but thank you whoever did this!

It really shows how widespread Kris’ radioplay is.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=103823679252229049001.000474eca6a1029d3b6e2&ll=37.649034,-93.955078&spn=45.91929,79.013672&z=4

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year. They usually have Carrie on 4-5 times so there’s room for other Idols to come back.

Obviously they will bring Kris and Allison back. The question then is Adam and Danny.

I think they would bring Adam back before Danny and Allison. He is the runner up. Also, it would be a big ratings draw and perhaps he would bring a different demographic to the show.

Kris will be back, obviously, and I believe they will have Danny and Allison back as they both have albums to promote.

I am really hoping Matt gets signed before the season starts so he can come back. Sarver, perhaps as well? But it will be like Brook’s appearance, in the early rounds.

Adam and Allison have been promoted and pushed too. Radio just didn’t pick them the way they picked Kris song.

Adam hasn’t been promoted to radio at all. He did his first radio interviews this week. He should have been doing what Kris has been doing all along. Kris has been running all over the country doing radio.

I think AI will be more than happy to bring Adam back to perform on the show next year. One incident revolving around whether his AMA performance was inappropriate (I fall on the side of it was fine, although I understand whay some people thought it was inappropriate for live tv) isn’t enough to get him banned. Now, if he has multiple incidents like this, or if he gets arrested for something (none of which I believe will happen), then maybe they wouldn’t ask him back. But as of right now, no reason not to have him back. He knows exactly what he can and can’t get away with on that show.

“Outside of the Idol bubble [Slezak, Rickey, Jim C. and Kris fans], most people in the music industry did not have high expectations for Kris commercially.”

Q3 – is this your opinion? It’s stated as fact. What’s the source?

That’s not what he said Kirsten. He said the dancer didn’t know it was going to happen, but that he wouldn’t have done it if he didn’t think the dancer would be cool with it. Saying he ‘did not consent’  implies an unwanted sexual assault. Until the dancer files a police report there’s no basis for that claim.

I’m sorry, but what Adam thinks or does not think that the other person would be cool with is irrelevant. Dance moves are choreographed in advance so that everybody knows what is going to happen and has a chance to object if they are not happy about the move. Deciding to shove somebody into something (anything) without their prior knowledge risks injury. When it’s something of a risque nature it should require prior consent.

If the dancer didn’t know the move was going to happen, he did not consent to doing it. Now, during a live performance, there can be some spontaniety, but doing something like that to another dancer is a bit more than throwing in an extra box step.

It’s beyond risky to think the other person is cool with it. What if he wasn’t? Even if he didn’t press charges or sue your sexually harrassing a$$ (because I don’t think too many bosses would get away with a move like that), wouldn’t you feel like the biggest creep if you found it bothered him? Always get consent first.

He knows exactly what he can and can’t get away with on that show.

Or they will just tape him from the waste up!

So, just to be clear, that chart of Jive artists were just the 1st week sales for the artist — not their overall sales, correct?

If that’s the case, that explains why Jive doesn’t appear to be panicking.

‘Outside of the Idol bubble [Slezak, Rickey, Jim C. and Kris fans], most people in the music industry did not have high expectations for Kris commercially.’ 

Q3 –

That is not true. I saw several music industry execs quoted about Kris having real commercial appeal shortly after he won AI.

So, just to be clear, that chart of Jive artists were just the 1st week sales for the artist ‘” not their overall sales, correct?

Yes. That’s just first weeks.

Adam hasn’t been promoted to radio at all. He did his first radio interviews this week.

Radio promo is a lot more than artists doing interviews. Plus, When you set an adds date for a song you’re pushing it and marketing it. Regardless, he has been on KIIS, Z100, WPLJ… those are not exactly small stations.

I think AI will be more than happy to bring Adam back to perform on the show next year. One incident revolving around whether his AMA performance was inappropriate (I fall on the side of it was fine, although I understand whay some people thought it was inappropriate for live tv) isn’t enough to get him banned. Now, if he has multiple incidents like this, or if he gets arrested for something (none of which I believe will happen), then maybe they wouldn’t ask him back. But as of right now, no reason not to have him back. He knows exactly what he can and can’t get away with on that show.

True. He never went “too far” while on the show. I guess he thought since the show was over he could do whatever he wanted. But yeah, as long as he doesn’t go overboard I don’t think he’ll have a problem. He did a good job on Letterman and CBS. He needs to continue to do that.

Does anyone know what Adam is singing on Ellen? Was that show taped yet?

Does anyone know what Adam is singing on Ellen? Was that show taped yet?

Taping on monday! I want FYE! How many songs do they perform on Ellen? One?

[I do not think that most of Adam's core fans or buyers are Idol fans.]

I disagree for two reasons. 1. He’s selling too much for a new artist with little radio play. 2. If you go to itunes, it lists what purchasers of his album also bought. The top five are David A, David C, Kris Allen, Michael Johns and Daughtry. That sounds like idol fans. One way to track how well he is reaching people outside of the idol sphere is to see how this list changes with time.

That’s not what he said Kirsten. He said the dancer didn’t know it was going to happen, but that he wouldn’t have done it if he didn’t think the dancer would be cool with it.

Is that his own dancers or is that someone just met on the rehearsal? Not really sure how he would know that it’s OK if that’s someone he barely knew. And if that’s his own dancers, isn’t he crossing a line there doing that to his own employee, someone who might be afraid of losing his job if he complains? Ditto with the keyboard player?

‘Outside of the Idol bubble [Slezak, Rickey, Jim C. and Kris fans], most people in the music industry did not have high expectations for Kris commercially.’ 

Q3 ‘“ is this your opinion? It’s stated as fact. What’s the source?

It’s not my opinion. Kris won American Idol so he should have strong sales.

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year.

Hmm, my guess would be. . .NO.

Is that his own dancers or is that someone just met on the rehearsal? Not really sure how he would know that it’s OK if that’s someone he barely knew. And if that’s his own dancers, isn’t he crossing a line there doing that to his own employee, someone who might be afraid he might lose his job if he complains? Ditto with the keyboard player?

Four of the dancers were from the Zodiac Show and have known Adam for a long time. All of the dancers were select in LA auditions by Adam and his team. There is no indication anywhere that any of the dancers had an issue with the performance — and Tommy Joe [the bassist who Adam kissed has said that he had no issue with it.]

Q3 – what is your source for your statement that “most people in the music industry did not have high expectations for Kris commercially”?

I have not seen anyone quoted that said that. I’ve heard just the opposite.

Re: Adam’s dancers – since when is “I thought they’d be OK with it” after the fact an excuse for what he did – whether it’s with a female, male, or anything in between?

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year.

Hmm, my guess would be. . .NO.

mine too – I really hope he’s apart of idol give back.

While it probably would have been better all around if Adam had stuck to what he had done at the AMA rehearsals — and it would have been nice if he had talked to the dancers beforehand about what they would or wouldn’t be comfortable with, I haven’t heard one word from either of the dancers in question that they had any issues with what Adam did. And Tommy has already said he had no problem with the kiss, even though he had no clue it would occur.

Sorry if this isn’t new… I don’t really follow the Idols after the season ends. But my local paper just carried a nice piece about Kris. Had to laugh about the Monopoly game at the end. So cute.

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/72713752.html?elr=KArksUUUoDEy3LGDiO7aiU

Q3 ‘Outside of the Idol bubble [Slezak, Rickey, Jim C. and Kris fans], most people in the music industry did not have high expectations for Kris commercially.’ 

Q3 ‘“ is this your opinion? It’s stated as fact. What’s the source?

My source is Google search counts — there are about 27 times more unique news references to Adam selling more records than Kris vs. Kris outselling Adam. And I was responding to a comment that most people thought Kris would outsell Adam. The numbers story isn’t written yet, but the claim that most people thought Kris would outsell Adam is not correct. That was my sole point.

And we do not know what Adam will sell yet. And Kris only has one week of album sales — so it is too early for sales comparisons. But we also should not rewrite history.

But for one example, compare the signing press releases. Here are the quotes from Kris’ signing press release:

“Kris won the hearts of millions of Americans with his soulful voice, good looks and gracious demeanor,” said Fuller. “However it is his passion for music and love of performing that will make sure Kris stands the test of time and makes American Idol proud.”

“Kris had a terrific run of memorable performances culminating with an incredible win,” said Weiss, the Jive Label Group chairman. “He’s a super-talented singer and all-around gifted musician who has that rare common touch which will give him the ability to connect with the broadest possible audience. We’re really excited to welcome him to the Jive family.”

And here is Barry Weiss’ quote from Adam’s signing press release:

“There are no longer any rules in terms of where the world’s next superstars may come from,’  Barry Weiss, chairman of the RCA/JIVE label, remarked on the new signing. ‘We are thrilled to be getting involved with Adam Lambert as we all at RCA Records believe he is one of those rare, future global stars.’ 

For another example, Simon predicted that Kris would not sell 100K his first week — last May. Right after he did not stand up when they announced Kris won.

Q3: “I have a theory about why Kris’ album isn’t doing very well ‘” it is a 4-letter word that is not Adam ‘” GLEE. This is the first year that an Idol winner is up against Glee product and there is a lot of it. I think it is possible that Glee has taken some of the Idol market share. Which would have a bigger effect on Kris than Adam. [I do not think that most of Adam's core fans or buyers are Idol fans.]”

My bet also.

And GLEE is going to go along Season 9 of A. I., according to this site :

http://www.playbill.com/playblog/?tag=glee

Too bad for American Idol sales.

Is that his own dancers or is that someone just met on the rehearsal? Not really sure how he would know that it’s OK if that’s someone he barely knew. And if that’s his own dancers, isn’t he crossing a line there doing that to his own employee, someone who might be afraid of losing his job if he complains? Ditto with the keyboard player?

It was one of the dancers he had been rehearsing with for two weeks. So presumably he felt he had gotten to know him — and all of the dancers — well enough to know what they were comfortable with in terms of the performance. Again, we’ve heard no complaints from the dancer, so I will give Adam the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I think both the dancer and the keyboard player would and should feel free to voice their objections to Adam privately if they were upset. The dancer is no longer an employee, so job security isn’t an issue there. As for the keyboard player, I find the notion that Adam would fire him for speaking up to be ludicrous. And again, there’s been no indication from Adam in interviews that he was upset. But who knows?

. Right after he did not stand up when they announced Kris won.

Simon did stand up when Kris was announced as the winner. He just sat back down again soon. Which isn’t unusual for him, as it’s AI and not XFactor where Simon gives standing ovations all the time.

They have nothing against Adam and they welcome their contestants back every year. They have had all sorts of musicians there in the past.

Plus if he continues to do appropriate to time/venue performances, they won’t care. And AI had Flo Rida with his song about oral sex on, and Jamie Foxx and his blaming it on the alcohol song on, so yeah. If Adam has a hit with WWFM (which I hope he will) I think they’d be fine with his being on.

While it probably would have been better all around if Adam had stuck to what he had done at the AMA rehearsals

I really don’t know about that. It wouldn’t have resulted in all this insane press and everyone might be talking about Lady Gaga’s flaming piano instead.

And Tommy has already said he had no problem with the kiss…

I must have missed that, but that puts that issue to rest.

Four of the dancers were from the Zodiac Show and have known Adam for a long time. All of the dancers were select in LA auditions by Adam and his team. There is no indication anywhere that any of the dancers had an issue with the performance ‘” and Tommy Joe [the bassist who Adam kissed has said that he had no issue with it.

So they are effectively his employees, which does raise the question of Adam’s behaviour as an employer. Some employees allow things to be done to them by their employer without making a fuss, perhaps they think it’s just a minor violation of their dignity, not worth complaining even if they are unhappy about it.

FWIW, I do think the dancers are probably quite used to things like that and won’t think that it’s something outlandish, not sure if a keyboard player would expect to be kissed by his boss though. And just to clarify, I don’t care about it one way or another (personally I wouldn’t do anything like this without asking permission first), it’s only idle thoughts on my part.

As for the keyboard player, I find the notion that Adam would fire him for speaking up to be ludicrous.

Not ridiculous to me at all. I’m not a fan (although I do like him), don’t read much about him, and so wouldn’t even pretend to know what Adam is like as a private person. I doubt his fans know what he is like as a private person either, publicly presently face is not necessarily the private one.

So they are effectively his employees, which does raised the question of Adam’s behaviour as an employer.

Nevermind that. It’s battery so if they don’t like what he did, just file charges. Or quit. No one is forcing them to work with him and there are thousand of other gigs in this town.

So they are effectively his employees, which does raise the question of Adam’s behaviour as an employer. Some employees allow things to be done to them by their employer without making a fuss, perhaps they think it’s just a minor violation of their dignity, not worth complaining even if they are unhappy about it.

They did a job for him, but were hired by RCA or whomever was footing the bill, I imagine. And Adam isn’t in charge of Zodiac, he was just an employee him there himself.

Anyhew, so Kris had the second biggest debut for Jive this year, which still amazes me, but does anyone know what the best selling album of theirs for the year to date? Sorry, I’m just fascinated now. I mean I knew that “real,” artists didn’t sell a lot right away as well and take awhile to grow, but yeah. Which goes to my belief that Kris can still continue to build like other artists, with sales over weeks and months.

dancer is no longer an employee, so job security isn’t an issue there. As for the keyboard player, I find the notion that Adam would fire him for speaking up to be ludicrous.

They also have to worry about their next gig (especially the dancer). If they make a fuss about this, odds are they will have a tougher time finding another job because people will be concerned that they are a troublemaker (and that maybe he said yes and then changed his mind to create a fuss). Nobody will say anything, but they might quietly select the other dancer that’s “just as good”.

Even in the non-music biz, many people just put up with inappropriate behaviour (esp. if it is a one off thing) because to complain vocally changes the entire environment (and gets people wondering about you. Did you ask for it? Did you trick the other person into thinking you consented? Were you sending mixed singles? Should I work with this person in case they suddenly take exception to something innocent I do? Can’t they take a joke?).

I’m not saying that this dancer is upset by what happened. For all I know he is thrilled to be known as “that guy!”. A bit of a mini-celeb. I’m just saying that what Adam is saying about what he did is a bit squiffy.

“For another example, Simon predicted that Kris would not sell 100K his first week ‘” last May. Right after he did not stand up when they announced Kris won.”

This is NOT TRUE, and I really wish people would stop repeating it as if it were fact. Go back – look at the tape. He stood up immediately, just sat down more quickly than the others. Per usual for Simon.

Happy Thanksgiving all, and esp. thank you the peeps who posted the vids of David Cook’s Mobile concert. I was not near a computer for a while and only now discovered those gems. (“Avalanche”, “Breathe Tonight”) Thanks

Nevermind that. It’s battery so if they don’t like what he did, just file charges. Or quit. No one is forcing them to work with him and there are thousand of other gigs in this town.

How did what happened on the AMA’s become “battery”? People may have found the choreography to graphic, but battery?

The following elements must be proven to establish a case for battery: (1) an act by a defendant; (2) an intent to cause harmful or offensive contact on the part of the defendant; and (3) harmful or offensive contact to the plaintiff.

I do not believe that Adam intended to harm or offend one of the dancers. Also, doubt that any of these dancers was offended or harmed.

They also have to worry about their next gig (especially the dancer). If they make a fuss about this, odds are they will have a tougher time finding another job because people will be concerned that they are a troublemaker (and that maybe he said yes and then changed his mind to create a fuss). Nobody will say anything, but they might quietly select the other dancer that’s ‘just as good’ .

What? They could have their own huge career. The entire conservative movement would embrace them if they went against Adam. They could be the next Carrie Prejean.

How did what happened on the AMA’s become ‘battery’ ? People may have found the choreography to graphic, but battery?

It could legally be construed as battery. Battery is defined as any unwanted touching. A poke could technically be construed as battery. If these dancers are so upset they have a bunch of routes they can go.

I might have missed this being posted, but ABC knew what was going to happen in regard to the bj. According to an article on MSN:

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=443676

“ABC said it felt burned because Lambert went further on the air with sexuality than he did in rehearsals ‘” including the kiss. But the man putting his face to Lambert’s crotch was included in a rehearsal, according to an Associated Press reporter who attended the rehearsal.”

Enjoy Thanksgiving!

I’m not saying that this dancer is upset by what happened. For all I know he is thrilled to be known as ‘that guy!’ . A bit of a mini-celeb.

If the information from an IDF poster who was in the press room is correct, it’s more likely the latter:

If it means anything, the press got QUITE the kick out of Adam’s performance and his name was on many of their lips afterwards. After talking to some other press people, most of the artist didn’t stop by for interview. They posed for photos and made beeline down the red carpet to get inside …

I asked them about the fall. The confirmed that Adam did fall but they all felt he played it off very well. I asked if he got hurt and they said he was fine. I asked why Adam didn’t meet the press. They said that he and 4 of the dancers had to catch the red eye flight to New York. Overall they seemed QUITE pleased with how the performance went and were eagerly awaiting all the “scandalous” press tomorrow.

‘For another example, Simon predicted that Kris would not sell 100K his first week ‘” last May. Right after he did not stand up when they announced Kris won.’ 

That is what was reported by the LA Times and AP. And I have no interest in going back and watching that moment. So, let me amend:

In May, Simon predicted Kris would not sell 100K his first week of album sales. Soon after he quickly stood up and sat back down when they announced the Kris had won. I was not trying to dis Kris, just put Simon’s comment into context the he did not support Kris – look at his statement pre-Top 3 that Danny and Adam should be in the final. And his statements about Kris after he won.

I have no interest in rehashing the final vote. I just think it is unfair to say the 1. Most people expected Kris to outsell Adam, and 2. Expect that Kris would sell more because he won.

Frankly, it is a good think that Kris won. Adam would not be a good American Idol winner. He is better off as #2 and Idol is better off with Adam as #2. But that does not mean that Adam will be less successful than Kris — or that people in the music industry didn’t recognize Adam commercial potential.

Q1:

very interesting point about “Glee.”

and what songs are doing so well from “Glee”??

Oldies…..which is part of my point. when Kris sang oldies, he sold very well very quickly. when he sang new tunes dashed off with collaborators and recorded quickly, not so much.

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year.

So they’ll have Flo Rida on, doing *his* sex song, but they’ll ban Adam, who most likely *wouldn’t* be doing a sex song…. That seems kind of unlikely to me.

I think tthat, by and large, they’ll ban Adam (or Kris or whoever) if they think that person has no chance at having a hit or bringing in more audience for them. That’s about the only basis on which they hesitate to bring somebody back on the show, seems to me.

They said that he and 4 of the dancers had to catch the red eye flight to New York.

Which routine did they do in NY? I don’t recall seeing it (just the two WWFM which were just with the band IIRC).

AI will have Adam back on. Nobody is charging anyone with battery. LOL. OF COURSE most of Adam and Kris’ first week sales are to idol fans. Those are my opinions anyway. Back to the Turkey! Happy Thanksgiving!

It could legally be construed as battery. Battery is defined as any unwanted touching. A poke could technically be construed as battery. If these dancers are so upset they have a bunch of routes they can go.

No that is not the correct legal definition —

And there is not one report of any upset dancers.

I wonder if AI will ban Adam from the show next year.

19 loves Adam. They will probably feature one of his songs in one of the audition city montages (or perhaps one of the “dance-of-the-semi-finalists”). That’s pretty common for 19M signed artists. Who knows? Maybe he’ll get the boot song. Cookie is probably next in line, though (Carrie, Daughtry and Ruben have all had one). They will certainly have him on to sing. If they worry about him going off-script, they can just tape it a week in advance like they do half the result show acts anyway.

Kirsten

I think the dancers were going to be part of the GMA performance. When that got cancelled, the plans changed and the dancers ended up no being part of Adam’s performances on Letterman or the Early Show…

No that is not the correct legal definition ‘”

And there is not one report of any upset dancers.

Yes that is the correct legal definition and if any of these dancers or the keyboardist are upset they can follow Carrie Prejean into infamy assuming they can track down and erase any sex tapes they have out there.

I might have missed this being posted, but ABC knew what was going to happen in regard to the bj. According to an article on MSN:

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=443676

Here is the original Associated Press article posted in the Headlines on 11/23:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iV6FTAlvcSt8xS_ZQY1Z9Q64ojfwD9C582A00

It was written by a reporter following the rehearsals, and here is a quote from the article:

At one point, he thrusts a leather-clad male backup dancer’s face toward his crotch, and later flashes a knowing smile as he strokes the same dancer’s cheek after plowing through a door that swings both ways.

So it seems that the head-in-crotch move was seen in the rehearsals.

Which routine did they do in NY? I don’t recall seeing it (must the two WWFM which were just with the band IIRC).

They were probably originally scheduled to do some version of FYE on GMA, if not on the broadcast then in one of those songs-the-do-after-the-show-and-put-on-the-web things, I would think.

So Adam is going to be charged with Battery now? Get the cops on him and have those singers sue Adam! That’ll show him. Adam’s going to be on LKL, maybe he’ll wear a bowtie as well!

They did a job for him, but were hired by RCA or whomever was footing the bill, I imagine.

I should imagine at the least Adam is paying for the keyboard player himself.

Nevermind that. It’s battery so if they don’t like what he did, just file charges. Or quit. No one is forcing them to work with him and there are thousand of other gigs in this town.

Such thing is so easily said when it is not your job at stake in such a lousy economy.

They also have to worry about their next gig (especially the dancer). If they make a fuss about this, odds are they will have a tougher time finding another job because people will be concerned that they are a troublemaker

Exactly. It’s not a good idea to make too much of a fuss like that for those in the entertainment business. I don’t think most people in the States know who Jason Donovan is (he is an Australian actor/singer who was big in UK), but a style magazine once claimed that he was gay, Jason took exception to the claim and sued the magazine. He won. Jason’s career however went into a nosedive after that, because those those in the entertainment business are those that read the style magazine, and they sided with the magazine. No more gigs for Jason.

What? They could have their own huge career. The entire conservative movement would embrace them if they went against Adam. They could be the next Carrie Prejean.

Carrie Prejean? Just curious, anyone knows what happened to the theatre director forced to resign when it was revealed that he supported Prop 8? Would be interesting to know if he got lots of offers from conservative theatre groups (such things do exist, don’t they?).

Hmm, the edit function seems not to work properly…

I was just going to add that I also remember reading somewhere that the head-in-crotch move did not go as far in the rehearsals than it did in the actual performance but the move was there. But I have no idea where to start looking for that particular article…

Is the prediction for Adam still 210-230 K?

Perez is disgusted? LOL.

CBS saying kissing the band member could lead to legal consequences? I wonder what they mean. Are they expecting assault charges pressed by the guy?

GLAAD does not represent me. I fully support the network for dumping him from GMA. Come on, GLAAD, as if he had tailored his performance for the AMAs. *eyeroll*

KrisAllen

#I’m gonna see how many times I can say tryptophan today. about 2 hours ago from Echofon

What I wanna know is how many times can he say this before he falls asleep? Tryptophan makes you very sleepy…

So Adam is going to be charged with Battery now? Get the cops on him and have those singers sue Adam! That’ll show him. Adam’s going to be on LKL, maybe he’ll wear a bowtie as well!

If they’re going to sue they should sue RCA because they have the money and I think RCA are the ones who hired them anyway.

I brought it up because people seem to think these people have no recourse and are being forced to put up with big bad Adam. That’s not the case at all.

Carrie Prejean? Just curious, anyone knows what happened to the theatre director forced to resign when it was revealed that he supported Prop 8? Would be interesting to know if he got lots of offers from conservative theatre groups (such things do exist, don’t they?).

He should contact the law professor at Liberty University who filed the FCC complaint against ABC. Maybe that guy will take his case.

What? They could have their own huge career. The entire conservative movement would embrace them if they went against Adam. They could be the next Carrie Prejean.

Whoah! If a female or male dancer decided to voice discomfort about having their face publicly shoved into a male employer’s crotch, I am having a hard time seeing how that would be seen as representative of the conservative movement. What happened to simple employee rights? Or laws against sexual harrassment in the workplace? Or are we now in an era where it’s considered “conservative” to whine about such trivia? I’m going to give Adam the benefit of the doubt and asssume that those dancers were OK with it and telling the truth. However, I wish Adam would stop talking sometimes and just sing. Because saying that the dancers hadn’t anticipated these impromptu moves just makes him look sleazy now.

Not unless he pulls some more crazy stunts. However, I’m gonna be surprised if he turns up in Times Square New Years Eve which is not only ABC but broadcast live

Was he supposed to perform or was he just supposed to stand next to Ryan and chit chat all nite? I guess that ABC might be afraid that he would go down on Ryan mid-sentence…..

spring2009 – ROFL! Sarcastic wit is my favorite

If they’re going to sue they should sue RCA because they have the money and I think RCA are the ones who hired them anyway.

Yeah, Tommy and those singers forget about the legal charges, go for the civil ones and sue for emotional distress! The emotional distress is where the money’s at.

Adam Lambert does not have the power, or even the forethought to plan all of this and predict that he would have come out a winner in this scenario.

Sorry but I don’t agree. Adam has constantly said he “likes to push peoples buttons” and it is apparent that he likes all the tabloid fodder, so what makes anyone think he wouldn’t have the forethought to plan this. He likes the media attention so it would not surprise me at all.

Like a poster said before, season 9 can’t come soon enough. This crap is getting old.

All I have to say is that I have no doubt that if the dancers were reading some of the comments here they would be laughing their selves silly. There is very, very little room for personal space in professional dance. Their bodies are the instruments they use to produce their type of art or creative expression. Dancers are touching and being touched all the time but it’s not personal it’s part of the business of creating that type of performance art. They knew the type of performance Adam was going for… sexy, sensual and out there. From the rehearsal clips it was clear to me the dancers were very excited to be creating something sensational. All of the moves were part of the dance/performance and I doubt that anything Adam did was anything new for them (except perhaps the kiss that Tommy got, but he say’s it was fine and in the spirit of rock n roll).

I might have missed this being posted, but ABC knew what was going to happen in regard to the bj. According to an article on MSN:

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=443676

Here is the original Associated Press article posted in the Headlines on 11/23:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iV6FTAlvcSt8xS_ZQY1Z9Q64ojfwD9C582A00

It was written by a reporter following the rehearsals, and here is a quote from the article:

“At one point, he thrusts a leather-clad male backup dancer’s face toward his crotch, and later flashes a knowing smile as he strokes the same dancer’s cheek after plowing through a door that swings both ways.”

So it seems that the head-in-crotch move was seen in the rehearsals.

I think we need to repeat this every five minutes. So…the poor dancers were on notice. He and she could have said something about the move if they were bothered by it during rehearsals. And in fact, would have to say something about it and been told to either do it or lose their jobs, in order for the simulated oral sex moves to be legally actionable.

He should contact the law professor at Liberty University who filed the FCC complaint against ABC. Maybe that guy will take his case.

I wonder who he’ll sued? The theatre goers who said they’d boycott his shows, or his own actors (a lot of them probably gay) unhappy about working for someone who hates them or their lifestyles?

Also want to say happy T day to everyone. I’m so thankful that Adam is creating music. Is it wrong that I love his interviews almost as much as his music and performances? And I’m really really loving his album.

He is such a beautiful man inside and out. Call me naive and gullible (I really don’t care) but I totally believe him. Dude’s been doing live performances for what, 15 years or more? Did a tv show for 6 months or so and then 52 live performances on tour. He got caught up in his characterization of the song. end of story. He’s a bright guy and will learn from this.

So it seems that the head-in-crotch move was seen in the rehearsals.

The rehearsal thing is a non-issue because I’m pretty sure I heard Adam say they rehearsed it once, but that TPTB of the AMAs didn’t know about it.

Yeah it’s fine to forgive a felony but don’t dare do something sexy.

GMA’s choices are really stunning.

Man, either this is ‘out of the box’ marketing or a very peculiar typo!

From the AdamOfficial Singapore site’ ¦

Get your limited edition Adam Lambert sticker!
Every purchase of Kris Allen’s debut album comes along with a limited edition Adam Lambert sticker! This is exclusive to Singapore only, and the sticker can be pasted on your EZ-link card or travel pass!

http://www.adamofficial.com/sg/news/get-your-limited-edition-adam-lambert-sticker

I guess that ABC might be afraid that he would go down on Ryan mid-sentence’ ¦..

Whoops forgot …. heard the radio interview (Long Island) yesterday – they asked Adam if he would be attracted to a number of different guys – Ryan was one of them and Adam said no. So no fear ABC!!

Whoops forgot ‘ ¦. heard the radio interview (Long Island) yesterday ‘“ they asked Adam if he would be attracted to a number of different guys ‘“ Ryan was one of them and Adam said no. So no fear ABC!!

Interestingly, Adam said maybe to Jessica Simpson and YES to Leonardo Dicaprio

MY Thanksgiving can begin. Dinner is over. Dishwasher is running. Children are off to next stop of holiday tour. I have plunked myself down in my chair with my feet up. Peace!

I have no interest in rehashing the final vote. I just think it is unfair to say the 1. Most people expected Kris to outsell Adam, and 2. Expect that Kris would sell more because he won.

I know for me personally as a Kris fan, I never thought Kris would outsell Adam, esp right out of the box. Maybe some did and I missed it, because even though I feel as if I’m here all the time, I’m not. However, I do remember Adam fans saying that Kris should outsell Adam simply because he was the American Idol.

Get your limited edition Adam Lambert sticker!
Every purchase of Kris Allen’s debut album comes along with a limited edition Adam Lambert sticker! This is exclusive to Singapore only, and the sticker can be pasted on your EZ-link card or travel pass!

That is very strange because I believe that Kris’s single was doing quite well on Singapore radio all by its lonesome…at least I’m pretty sure this is what I heard…

New Adam audio interview with a Canadian magazine. This magazine is part of the gay press in Canada. In it Adam says that Tommy told him during the video shoot — which was prior to the AMAs — that Adam could grab him or whatever during a performance and it would be fine.

http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Adam_Lambert_chats_with_fab_magazine-7906.aspx

cookcricket

It was. I saw several posts/tweets talking about how LLWD ws #1 on a couple of the Singapore radio stations.

I don’t understand why Jive would put an Adam sticker in Kris’ album. Maybe they screwed up the announcement somehow? Wouldn’t the sticker come with ADAM’s album?

The bottom line is sex is very bad, beating someone up is acceptable.

The bottom line is that it’s bad to do a lot of things on national TV, but as far as TV stations are concerned, what you do in your private life is your business. Whether or not that’s right is another issue. Janet Jackson got blacklisted by showing a boob on national TV. I thought her treatment was even harsher than what Adam is going through. Kanye got blacklisted for basically telling a mediocre artist that there were much more deserving performers. It doesn’t matter than a lot of people were probably yelling the same thing at their TV screens. It’s that fact that he did it on national TV that made him persona non grata. Not a Chris Brown fan but I’m guessing that if his performance involved beating up a female to a pulp, then ABC wouldn’t have him either.

The rehearsal thing is a non-issue because I’m pretty sure I heard Adam say they rehearsed it once, but that TPTB of the AMAs didn’t know about it.

It’s an issue because some here have been acting like the dancer did not know before the performance that there would be such a move.

The number of albums that Kris and Adam sell is not a zero sum game. While there is a zero sum game here, there are a great many more players. I have not yet finished buying albums of Adam, Kris, Allison and others.

Jive just need to release one of Kris ballads in his CD as a single to get the Kris’ sale going in Singapore and Asia! Get on it Jive!

Also, they shouldn’t use Adam’s sticker, but Kris’! The teens there love Kris boyish good look. Adam’s stickers should be on Adam’s CD.

The rehearsal thing is a non-issue because I’m pretty sure I heard Adam say they rehearsed it once, but that TPTB of the AMAs didn’t know about it.

It’s an issue because people here have been acting like the dancer did not know before the performance that there would be such a move.

Then if the dancer was aware the move would happen, Adam is fibbing about it being a spur of the moment thing.

Then if the dancer was aware the move would happen, Adam is fibbing about it being a spur of the moment thing.

If you read my comments before you also saw that the moves in the rehearsals were not as exaggerated as they were in the actual performance, so that would be the “in the moment” element. But the move had been rehearsed according to that article.

ETA: I don’t think that the kiss had been rehearsed.

However, I do remember Adam fans saying that Kris should outsell Adam simply because he was the American Idol.

Well I said it, because I do expect that the winner should sell more. They won after all, and supposedly, Kris won handily. There has only been one time the second place finisher sold more albums ahead of the winner, and that was Clay selling more than Ruben. Daughtry of course, was not a second place finisher, but he’s the only other time that I can recall with the albums made right after their seasons, where the winner didn’t have the most sales.

So yeah, I maintain it’s a reasonable expectation to expect the most sales from Kris as the winner of the show, and it’s most popular person. I mean, he won by popular vote, so he’s the most popular. And yeah, I think that is what most people inside and outside the media and I don’t think they’re being unreasonable in that.

All of that being said, I also think that like on the show and with his single, that Kris can have long term, gradual growth and lead to commerical success in the end.

Lets see the math = if all the adam fans bought every where they could.That is 5 albums each.that adds up to 50000 fans.Why are his singles not selling because hardcore fans want first week album sales.The music biz wants second and 3rd and 4th and so on sales.

Then if the dancer was aware the move would happen, Adam is fibbing about it being a spur of the moment thing.

I thought Adam said that the kiss and the finger were spur of the moment things and that the crotch things were part of the choreography but done somewhat more intensely in the adrenalin-charged performance than in the rehearsals.

My only complaint about the whole Adam AMA controversy is that, it seemed to me, people were really harping on the inappropriateness of his performance on a show “geared” to Children. Whether the show is or isn’t isn’t the issue for me, the issue is that Children were used IMHO as a scapegoat for the sensibilities of many adults. Its perfectly fine to be “upset” with the performance and to say that it bothers you, but I wish the issue of children hadn’t become the focus.

I also think that network TV: CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX, are also trying to push the envelope as far as they can to keep ahead of a fast gaining Cable dominated media. Shows are getting more risque, inuendo is the usual, and sex and violence are pushed to within an inch of appropriateness per the FCC.

Very, very few movies are made to appeal to a G audience. In fact many movies try and “add” something so that they can get a PG13 rating…the original StarWars Saga is a prime example of this. It may be a sad fact for many….but our viewing public in the US isn’t as interested in watching stuff focused for children. That is just the way it is. So, ABC needs to take a good hard look at themselves and their programming to see how far they are already pushing it…

Lol. Re the stickers in singapore, it’s a mistake. Adam gets an Adam sticker, Kris gets a Kris sticker, presumably Allison will get an Allison sticker when her album drops. I have the Kris and Adam stickers, even though I could barely restrain myself from laughing when I saw Adam’s album cover. As it is I went to the cashier with a manic grin and Adam tucked safely out of sight between Kris and Lady Gaga. Just to keep from having security called on my crazy ass. It’s not the same seeing Adam on the internet and on a real cd.

Well I said it, because I do expect that the winner should sell more. They won after all, and supposedly, Kris won handily.

Which is all the more reason the voting should be limited to one call one vote. Of course people will try to get around it, I’ve got 3 phone numbers, a cable, a cell and a skype, but there are those fanatics that would buy a thousand skype numbers.

Lets see the math = if all the adam fans bought every where they could.That is 5 albums each.that adds up to 50000 fans.Why are his singles not selling because hardcore fans want first week album sales.The music biz wants second and 3rd and 4th and so on sales.

Because by pre-ordering the album, you got immediate download of FYE. The albums are minimum of 9 or 10 dollars, single 99 cents. For the labels, more money selling albums. Also, there are so many good songs on the album, that most people did want all the songs.

Truthiness-I always enjoy your comments. However, here comes the “but”. The voting structure for AI is not a representational vote. It’s not one man, one vote. It’s not one man, four votes, which might represent the number of viewers 25 million viewers, 100 million votes. Some don’t vote at all. Some vote thousands of times. Not all voters will buy albums. Some non-voters will buy albums. 19E knows more about the votes and probably understands better how this all shakes out. I would think that music sales during the show’s time on air and after would be a better indication. As far as I know, we only have sales for after the show ended. Those after show sales have Kris selling more, but that is an incomplete picture. There are probably even more things that cloud the picture than I can think of at the moment.

I really, honestly think that rather than a double standard ‘“ it’s that people flat out didn’t see that.

I’ve not read all comments but I saw it, and I also saw the “trolley stop” (tm Adam Lambert) pull of the female dancer’s crotch attire. The first has not received any comment much less censorship. The latter received passing mention a couple of times, and I don’t believe it’s been censored. Many other male on female moves were pretty explicit body grinds. So yeah, no comment on those either.

Anyway, it’s difficult to deny the different treatment received other than to point to discomfort and/or lack of conditioning and desensitization. No matter the reason or explanation, the treatment is notably different, and hence, imo, a double standard is being applied.

I’ve not read all comments but I saw it, and I also saw the ‘trolley stop’  (tm Adam Lambert) pull of the female dancer’s crotch attire. The first has not received any comment much less censorship. The latter received passing mention a couple of times, and I don’t believe it’s been censored. Many other male on female moves were pretty explicit body grinds. So yeah, no comment on those either.

straight males will not go see him live.That means if adam can get on the radio and sell.How will he sell out live with gay support or idol fans?

straight males will not go see him live.That means if adam can get on the radio and sell.How will he sell out live with gay support or idol fans?

In a word, huh?!

Man, either this is ‘out of the box’ marketing or a very peculiar typo!

From the AdamOfficial Singapore site’ ¦

Get your limited edition Adam Lambert sticker!
Every purchase of Kris Allen’s debut album comes along with a limited edition Adam Lambert sticker! This is exclusive to Singapore only, and the sticker can be pasted on your EZ-link card or travel pass!

http://www.adamofficial.com/sg/news/get-your-limited-edition-adam-lambert-sticker

Speechless… I don’t even know how to respond to this. *I feel confused inside*

straight males will not go see him live.That means if adam can get on the radio and sell.How will he sell out live with gay support or idol fans?

Oh crap… does that mean my husband is gay?… because he wants to go when Adam starts touring. He even asked me when to expect him.

Steve “straight males will not go see him live.That means if adam can get on the radio and sell.How will he sell out live with gay support or idol fans?”

I think you forgot to mention the porn fans. He will sell out with those fans alone.. I think after AMA.

4Msrmyn, the voting foo is immaterial to my point, which is Kris did win. Period. That’s all we need to know about the voting and because he won by the popular vote, he’s presumed to be the most popular. So yes, it’s a reasonable expectation for people in and outside the media to expect Kris to sell more than Adam. 19Evil isn’t a factor in any of that. Again, only once has a runner-up sold more than a winner right after their season. So the track record supports expecting the winner to have the most sales of their season as well. And heck, Kris did sell more post season AI and Adam’s singles sales have been for crap, so another reason for it not to be an unreasonble expectation for Kris to sell more.

And I’ll say my bottomline again, Kris still might end up selling more in the long run, because that can happen. I hope it will, and certainly Kris has a history of that slow steady climb as well. Both on the show and with LLWD.

In response to an earlier comment, I believe GaGa’s collective sales for The Fame Monster will be better than Adam’s FYE, but Adam will be ranked higher.

I read (on HDD I believe) that, for reasons I can’t quite figure out, the deluxe Monster’s numbers are being added to the total for The Fame (it does include all of the Fame with the 8 bonus Monster tracks after all) while the stand alone 8 track version of all new songs is charting separately. So she’s predicted to sell over 300K of the two, but not over 180K of either.

I had wondered how they planned to treat hers since 8 tracks are a lot of bonuses, but there ya have it (if HDD is reporting accurately, and I believe they are.)

I’ve not read all comments but I saw it, and I also saw the ‘trolley stop’  (tm Adam Lambert) pull of the female dancer’s crotch attire. The first has not received any comment much less censorship.

In my opinion what’s motivating this conservative group that filed the formal complaint is definitely the gay (as in two men) aspect of the performance. They have “open mouth homosexual kissing” listed as both obscene and indecent.

The TV networks have definitely shown a double standard between two women kissing and two men kissing. It’s hard to deny that Adam was right about that.

The TV networks have definitely shown a double standard between two women kissing and two men kissing. It’s hard to deny that Adam was right about that.

Uhm, he isn’t right. There have been many instances where I have seen men kissing on network television. Many of the daytime soaps have gay couples. One that comes to mind is As the World Turns. Another example is Brothers and Sisters where there is a prominent gay couple and they most certainly kiss.

I am getting and tired of the double standard being implied by some and by Adam. He’s purposely fueling the fire now …… just heard him on ETalk! here in Canada talking about it. It’s a crock. For someone who doesn’t want to be a spokesperson for gay causes, he’s doing a poor job of stepping away from it.

The TV networks have definitely shown a double standard between two women kissing and two men kissing. It’s hard to deny that Adam was right about that.

Two women kissing is different than two men kissing.

Two women kissing each other is just for fun or because their guy wants to see it. It doesn’t mean they are gay, they are just having a little fun. It doesn’t mean anything.

Two men kissing means they are fags because no man would dare kiss another man if he’s heterosexual and God forbid their woman would want to see them kiss another man. It’s disgusting.

THAT is the double standard, not just in TV and movies, but in people as well.

The TV networks have definitely shown a double standard between two women kissing and two men kissing. It’s hard to deny that Adam was right about that.

Uhm, he isn’t right. There have been many instances where I have seen men kissing on network television.

CBS morning show aired the Britney/Madonna/Christina kiss but blurred the Adam/Tommy kiss. Uhm, Adam is right.

The networks allow two men to peck each other. There is never any passion in a kiss, and never a bedroom scene. It is a token thrown to the gay community to say that they are liberal and allowing this. It is garbage.

May
11/26/2009 at 3:27 pm
[I do not think that most of Adam's core fans or buyers are Idol fans.]

I disagree for two reasons. 1. He’s selling too much for a new artist with little radio play. 2. If you go to itunes, it lists what purchasers of his album also bought. The top five are David A, David C, Kris Allen, Michael Johns and Daughtry. That sounds like idol fans. One way to track how well he is reaching people outside of the idol sphere is to see how this list changes with time

I agree the bulk of the sales are to his fans from Idol. His itunes sales seem to be a similar pattern to other idols that had pre-sales….a quick run up to the top of the chart, and after 72 or so hours start to drift slowly down. I am not surprised that AL is on track to sell more CD’s than KA first week out as do think he probably has a larger and more active fan base. (Yes, he has some advantages…an extra day of sales, a rock bottom price sale at Amazon for the first day or so and a highly controversial performance which has given him unprecedented publicity). However, I do think he probably would have had higher sales even without these factors.

Koshka

The thing about Adam stickers in Kris albums in Singapore is evidently incorrect — according to a poster who lives there, Kris’ album comes with stickers of Kris, Adam’s album comes with stickers of Adam

And why wouldn’t straight guys go to see Adam in concert? That’s a sweeping generalization if I’ve ever read one.

Does that mean no straight guys have ever gone to see Elton John, or Freddy Mercury in concert? O David Bowie (who is bi) — or any of the other gay or bi- male musicians? Do all straight women refuse to see AniDiFranco or Melissa Ethridge or any of the other lesbian or bi female musicans?

Don’t think so

“I am getting and tired of the double standard being implied by some and by Adam. He’s purposely fueling the fire now ‘ ¦’ ¦ just heard him on ETalk! here in Canada talking about it. It’s a crock. For someone who doesn’t want to be a spokesperson for gay causes, he’s doing a poor job of stepping away from it.”

I’m all for gay rights. But what Adam’s doing is probably not gonna help but worsen the images of gays..

Meanwhile, I was just looking at the charts on mediabase, and WWFM is rapidly catching up to FYE on the LIVE Top 40 chart (FYE is at #68, WWFM is at #70, and has actually gotten more spins on the radio than FYE today) (LLWD is currently at #36 on the live chart, but could end up passing Mariah Carey and move up one spot by the time the 7-day charts come out)

We can argue all night (or, ahem, for four days and nights lol) and never reach consensus, much less unanimity on the differentiated censorship and what it does and does not mean. But, regardless, ABC’s handling of the entire matter IS bothersome.

ABC teases this performance at every commercial break. ABC cleared the content at rehearsal — even without the body contact or even proximity, the positioning of the bjs were part of the gig, and the sexual touching and grinding, aggression, and S&M were clearly front and center with nothing left to the imagination. ABC posted the rehearsals on its website to drive anticipation. ABC allowed an AP writer (among others) to view rehearsal in short stints. ABC announced the “jaw-dropping”, “eye-popping”, “talk of the town” nature of Adam’s performance. ABC placed it last for a reason (or two, if you count the ratings boost they hoped for separately.)

Then, after using the performance and it’s own creation of anticipation for it to its own end, ABC feigns shock and appall as part of its own defense. ABC cancels Adam’s GMA to bolster that defense and lend credence to it’s feigned shock and appall.

I call BS.

CBS only fanned the flame when it inexplicably (notwithstanding the offered explanation ) censored the man-on-man kiss but not the woman-on-woman-on-woman one. So the double standard comes front and center. But that’s not my point.

ABC advertising now the interview and performances of Chris Brown, to me, confirm my own call of BS above.

Mileage…

CBS morning show aired the Britney/Madonna/Christina kiss but blurred the Adam/Tommy kiss. Uhm, Adam is right.

Uhm no he’s not…not in all instances. He’s implying it’s an overall problem when it isn’t. In certain instances, perhaps, but not all.

“I’m all for gay rights. But what Adam’s doing is probably not gonna help but worsen the images of gays..”

May I ask what image do people have of gays. I believe that gay men and women are just like me…I don’t go up and down the street and point out people that are gay because they look different or act different. I know a lot of straight people that are very feminine or very butch, if that is what you are referring to.

I’m all for gay rights. But what Adam’s doing is probably not gonna help but worsen the images of gays..

People who group people, particularly gays are not going to think favorably of them anyways.

May I ask what image do people have of gays. I believe that gay men and women are just like me’ ¦I don’t go up and down the street and point out people that are gay because they look different or act different. I know a lot of straight people that are very feminine or very butch, if that is what you are referring to.

I think they are referring to ignorant people. Those who think all gay men are promiscuious, aids-ridden, etc. Those same type of people tend to group everyone though. All Chinese people know king fu, all Black men are thugs/speak ebonics, and all Hispanics are illegal. I personally ignore those type of people. you ain’t changing them.

A lesbian wrote an article on that. She thinks Adam and other openly flamboyant gays are hurting the gay rights movement. to me, those who don’t like them aren’t going to but it depends on where you’re coming from I guess.

girlygirl

Sticker singular. And in case anyone feels shortchanged, it’s just a cropped version of the album covers focusing on their faces. With a FOR PROMOTIONAL USE ONLY NOT FOR SALE down one side, Sony Music logo in a corner, and album title in another.

Adam really looks like he’s advertising MAC eyeshadow, Outer Space season range of colours. /dying over him some more

Meanwhile, I was just looking at the charts on mediabase, and WWFM is rapidly catching up to FYE on the LIVE Top 40 chart (FYE is at #68, WWFM is at #70, and has actually gotten more spins on the radio than FYE today)

FYE got spins? I thought it was about dead on the radio. Radio did not take to that song at all.

Two women kissing is different than two men kissing.

Two women kissing each other is just for fun or because their guy wants to see it. It doesn’t mean they are gay, they are just having a little fun. It doesn’t mean anything.

Two men kissing means they are fags because no man would dare kiss another man if he’s heterosexual and God forbid their woman would want to see them kiss another man. It’s disgusting.

THAT is the double standard, not just in TV and movies, but in people as well.

Yup!! You just outlined the double standard right there. I know a lot of men who believe all women are bi-sexual so its natural for women to hook up in a sexual way. Its mind-blowing.

He’s implying it’s an overall problem when it isn’t. In certain instances, perhaps, but not all.

Yet, I believe it is an overall problem. We will have to say that you see it one way and I see it another way.
(But neither of us are gay men who have lived with discrimination.) So, all we have is just opinions of what we think we see.

Well I said it, because I do expect that the winner should sell more. They won after all, and supposedly, Kris won handily. There has only been one time the second place finisher sold more albums ahead of the winner, and that was Clay selling more than Ruben. Daughtry of course, was not a second place finisher, but he’s the only other time that I can recall with the albums made right after their seasons, where the winner didn’t have the most sales.

So yeah, I maintain it’s a reasonable expectation to expect the most sales from Kris as the winner of the show, and it’s most popular person. I mean, he won by popular vote, so he’s the most popular. And yeah, I think that is what most people inside and outside the media and I don’t think they’re being unreasonable in that.

Thats how I always looked at it.

tiger92
11/26/2009 at 8:45 pm
…..
(But neither of us are gay men who have lived with discrimination.) So, all we have is just opinions of what we think we see.

tiger92: Very important point

Truthiness-Kris won because he got more votes. It does not mean that he had more voters. It does not mean that he had more fans. It does not mean he has more fans that will buy his music. It only means that he got more votes.

Truthiness-Kris won because he got more votes. It does not mean that he had more voters. It does not mean that he had more fans. It does not mean he has more fans that will buy his music. It only means that he got more votes.

Regardless of how the “voting” went down and who has more fans, et al….the simplistic view is still that to the winner go the spoils. So, yes the American Idol should be the one that gets the most support and the most support should transfer into getting the most sales. And “Idol fans” should show their support of the program and the concept by buying what the winner is selling. If this isn’t happening then the premise of the entire show is flawed…because the premise is to find the next AMERICAN Idol. And voters should be voting for the person who is going to be most relevant for the modern day music business.

It’s really a very simple cause and effect situation. And if people are not buying his CD they are now saying that Kris is not the “best” singer and “best” representative of the show. It’s really that simple.

4Msrmyn
11/26/2009 at 8:57 pm
Truthiness-Kris won because he got more votes. It does not mean that he had more voters. It does not mean that he had more fans. It does not mean he has more fans that will buy his music. It only means that he got more votes.

You’re still missing my point that that is irrelevant. Because at the end, however it happened, Kris. Won. He’s the AI winner, so it’s a reasonable expectation for him to have the most sales in the post AI season. There is precedent with 6 out of 7 years before this one, and even in this one, thus far Kris HAS outsold Adam post AI.

It’s not some crazy or unreasonable expectation is the point, NOT the season’s voting. That issue is dead and immaterial to why it would be unreasonable to expect that Kris as the winner, should sell the most.

He’s implying it’s an overall problem when it isn’t. In certain instances, perhaps, but not all.

Yet, I believe it is an overall problem. We will have to say that you see it one way and I see it another way.

And, I guess I see it in yet a third way, in that whether occasional or pervasive, it’s a intolerable problem. IMO, we should no more tolerate periodic discrimination than we do frequent discrimination. Why would we?

The TV networks have definitely shown a double standard between two women kissing and two men kissing. It’s hard to deny that Adam was right about that.

That is a well established and unfortunate double standard in society (moreso than with the TV networks, since most of them did air the kiss). On a positive note, look at the great reception received by a movie like Brokeback Mountain that had some pretty colorful sex scenes. It easily makes my top ten list of one of the most romantic movies of this decade (and I doubt I’m the only straight person who thinks that). Not to mention all the oscar noms it received. That movie was nothing but quality and good acting from beginning to end. Sometimes that’s all it takes to break down barriers.

You’re still missing my point that that is irrelevant.

Nobody missed your point. Your point has been discussed and rightly dismissed, just like your prediction for Adam’s sales. (Unless I misremember, it was you who predicted under 100K, wasn’t it?) It is relevant, and you are just plain wrong. You’ll have a hard time explaining his predicted sales if you stick to what you believe.

It is relevant, you are just plain wrong.

Again…the premise of American Idol is that the “best” singer wins. Kris is called “The American Idol” and with that moniker he should be getting the best reception and the most sales. Otherwise there is no point in having an American Idol Champion. If the champion isn’t the one being embraced by the media and the record buyers than the system is flawed and American Idol’s premise is flawed. It is a simple concept….and if the trend is for other finalists to out sell the champion then it really demonstrates that the most relevant singer isn’t being crowned the champion.

It is relevant, and you are just plain wrong. You’ll have a hard time explaining his predicted sales if you stick to what you believe.

Of course I can be wrong, I said I hoped I would, I still hope to be. We don’t have his numbers yet. It’s one of those times I’m thrilled to be wrong. And I’m always fine admitting when I’m wrong. I’ve been wrong at times in the past, will be wrong at times in the future. I’m doing this imperfect human thing, so it’s going to continue to happen. Do I get points when I’m right? I was pretty close about the second week figures of sales for FYE. I was right about the MV for TfM not showing before TII and the release of the movie not helping single sales.

But I don’t see what that has to do with this other discussion, which you seem to disagree with, that’s it’s not unreasonable to expect the winner of AI to have the most sales by most people. I mean are you saying that outside the bubble that if asked the question ‘do you expect that the winner of American Idol will sell more than the guy he beat?’ that the majority of people wouldn’t say ‘yes,’? Okay then and guess I missed all that discussion where that happened and it was proven that it’s unreasonable to expect an AI winner to have the most sales over the runner-up, despite that being the case in 6-7 years thus far.

And yes, I do find irrelevant the idea that going into the voting again is useful where it’s posited that Kris didn’t really win by getting the most people voting for him, but by the most voting by less people. If you think that’s a fruitful argument to make or discuss again, cool, but I don’t agree and again, don’t think it is material in the end to the larger question of should a winner be expected to sell the most?

Mileage can vary and that’s cool that we can disagree. One could say I even give thanks that we can do so in a civil manner.

It is relevant, you are just plain wrong.

It is relevant to what will really actually occur in sales. It is not relevant to the actual (and, some might argue, reasonable) expectations of a typical casual viewer or non-viewer.

Nor does it bolster the credibility of the show, as Tess and others point out. But that’s another issue altogether, in my view.

It’s really a very simple cause and effect situation. And if people are not buying his CD they are now saying that Kris is not the ‘best’  singer and ‘best’  representative of the show. It’s really that simple.

and if the trend is for other finalists to out sell the champion then it really demonstrates that the most relevant singer isn’t being crowned the champion.

I do think Kris is the best and most relevant singer this year; it’s just unfortunate that the soulless sheep in the media have decided that hype = quality.

For me, the kiss didn’t surprise me, it was fairly predictable that Adam would put that image out in public at some point (we’ve already seen him kissing his lover before anyway) since he’s such a high profile gay pop star. But the simulated blowjob did (and that was a totally planned dance step – couldn’t they have come up with more intelligent creative ironic imagery like LadyG to put across the message “for your entertainment”?). It was crass, silly and pointless (and it bothered me that he chose a female dancer to do it, at least if it was a male dancer the “message” would have been consistent). What next in the name of “art”? A live-action cluster f*ck at the Oscars? With dogs? Don’t “discriminate” against them dawgs! And I’m saying this not just against Adam’s performance but any entertainer out there doing the same thing.

Again’ ¦the premise of American Idol is that the ‘best’  singer wins. Kris is called ‘The American Idol’  and with that moniker he should be getting the best reception and the most sales. Otherwise there is no point in having an American Idol Champion. If the champion isn’t the one being embraced by the media and the record buyers than the system is flawed and American Idol’s premise is flawed.

The concept or premise is one thing, the reality is another. One need not have anything to do with the other, and in fact reality shows that non-winners may do better than winners (Daughtry, Clay Aiken, now Adam, that’s 3 out of 8). We are talking about reality here, not some airy-fairy concept.

Just to go to the sales prediction thing, those who stick to the position that winners should sell more than non-winners logically went for 100K or lower. Those of us who believe winning is only part of the equation, and never believed that Kris has a strong fan-base, go for much higher prediction for Adam. Now if the prediction is wrong, you should then re-examine the premise on which you base your prediction. Those who predicted 100K or less must conclude that the premise on which they base their prediction has to be wrong (and not just may be wrong).

But I don’t see what that has to do with this other discussion, which you seem to disagree with, that’s it’s not unreasonable to expect the winner of AI to have the most sales by most people.

But that is not what we say. We are saying that while winners may get the most sales, that is not the only consideration since the number of votes may not reflect the actual number of fans. Before Season 8, 2 out of 7 previous seasons had non-winners doing better than winners, that should tell you that while winning helps, it is not the end of the story.

Tess-If you are saying that the winner should have the most sales, I agree that that is “the simplistic view”. I’m just saying that the way that they have set up the voting, you are not necessarily going to get that outcome. The show simply doesn’t work like that. I don’t understand what the cause and effect are that you are talking about. I’m not trying to argue with you. I’m not even sure we disagree. I’m not saying this because I dislike either of the boys. I’m an Adam fan first, but I like Kris and will buy his album. If we have a disagreement, I don’t understand what it is about.

snlw
11/26/2009 at 7:34 pm
Steve ‘straight males will not go see him live.That means if adam can get on the radio and sell.How will he sell out live with gay support or idol fans?’ 

I think you forgot to mention the porn fans. He will sell out with those fans alone.. I think after AMA.

You say porn fans. lol, that means 90% males, straight or gay. Yeah, I’m sure your bf/dh tell you differently, of course.

Again’ ¦the premise of American Idol is that the ‘best’  singer wins. Kris is called ‘The American Idol’  and with that moniker he should be getting the best reception and the most sales. Otherwise there is no point in having an American Idol Champion. If the champion isn’t the one being embraced by the media and the record buyers than the system is flawed and American Idol’s premise is flawed. It is a simple concept’ ¦.and if the trend is for other finalists to out sell the champion then it really demonstrates that the most relevant singer isn’t being crowned the champion.

1) Best singer; relevant singer, who’s to say? It’s all subjective.

2) There are plenty of people who vote during American Idol, who just see it as a TV show and a talent contest, but have no interest in buying a CD from anyone. Perhaps more of them voted for Kris because they were more impressed with him at the time, given the competition, song choice, and heaven knows how many other factors, at the time. Viewers aren’t asked to sign a contract stating that they will buy a CD if they vote for someone.

3) American Idol has never been all about the singing. You’re selling yourself while you’re on Idol not just your talent and, furthermore, other factors have begun to creep in over the past few years, the playing of instruments, the ability to arrange music, etc. Plus, there’s that whole growth thing; people like to see growth, to see an artist coming into his or her own in front of their eyes.

4) Just because one singer sells more than another or one movie makes more box office doesn’t necessarily make it the best representative of anything, other than popularity. A lot of good product doesn’t sell as well as the current fad, whatever that might be.

5) Oh … and I would leave the media out of it. They certainly didn’t embrace David Cook and he still sold more albums than Archie. The media sometimes have their own agendas, favorites, and prejudices which do not necessarily reflect how the vote goes.

OMG. I’ll go buy a few more copies of the album and give it to my relatives this Xmas (I don’t care if they tease me) for you guys.

I agree, this kid (and his adorable wife) could have been the greatest holiday story ever told, he could have been outselling SuBo right now. But you can’t change history. If you needed further proof, here you have it: idol guys are idiots.

Season 8 was about Adam Lambert and Adam Lambert only; the greatest singer of all times. There was also Danny Gokey, who will try manipulate the religious vote to beat him and 11 other kids who are not Adam Lambert. The tour was about Adam Lambert, 11 kids who are not Adam Lambert and the jerk that beat him. 50 states. That was the story told. That is like Titanic. No one can turn that ship around.

Just MHO, but Season 8 was not about Adam Lambert and Adam Lambert only. The producers did write a script to pander to human emotion and the judges read from that script, maybe not literally, but they knew where the show was supposed to go, and the judges’ constant OTT acclaim and praise went not to Adam or Kris or Allison, but to someone else — Simon’s standing ovation for Adam following “Mad world” notwithstanding. It was the season of the tearjerker and the eccentric clown (Tatiana, Norman Gentle, Bikini Girl et al). It was not “all about” Adam Lambert by any means. Wasn’t Adam the dude that Simon called “too theatrical” at his audition, but was thankfully outvoted by the other judges before Simon
seemed to be in 100% agreement with them?

Another thing that bothers me: I’m an Adam fan, but it is beyond the pale to refer to Kris in contemptuous language, even sarcastically. No thinking Adam fan would do that, if only out of respect for Adam’s deep friendship with Kris, which is one of the “real” stories to come out of AI8. What’s more, Kris is one of the
nicest kids to ever participate in AI, and one of the the most gracious winners. I like his music and he will be successful. I don’t care what his album sells and how many singles he can sell. Kris is Kris and that is that. I’m not unhappy that he won, and not because Kris coming in first, I think, actually helped Adam a lot more than if Adam had come in first.

I will agree that Adam drew summer concertgoers like a magnet; the show sold out, or came very close to it, in many venues in the Northeast, and despite the terrible economy. Adam, I think, had something to do with that. But I am very glad to have seen the other Idols at one of the summer concerts, not just Adam.

I’m not disputing every one’s right to an opinion….and American Idol is not the only institution where the winner is not the most profitable. Look at any movie awards show….again the simple premise would be that “best” movie should be “best” selling movie, because it has been awarded the distinction of being number 1 in the eyes of those who “vote” for that award. But of course, that is rarely if ever the case. Popularity is rarely based on an idealism that the voters use as their reference point.

Hence we have a 2 sides of the coin….voters who vote for the best and consumers who choose their favorite by supporting it economically. Does one form of measurement carry more weight than the other? Not in my eyes. I think I would rather go to the movie that the viewing public is all ga-ga over than waste my time on a movie that the elite few have deemed the best. That’s how my reasoning works.

But again….all the out lying factors aside…the “best” should be the “best” and the most profitable. Rarely happens….so the whole premise is then flawed. Is the voted best than really the best or is the most profitable the best. Hard question…and no definitive answer.

Uhm, he isn’t right. There have been many instances where I have seen men kissing on network television. Many of the daytime soaps have gay couples. One that comes to mind is As the World Turns. Another example is Brothers and Sisters where there is a prominent gay couple and they most certainly kiss.

I am getting and tired of the double standard being implied by some and by Adam. He’s purposely fueling the fire now ‘ ¦’ ¦ just heard him on ETalk! here in Canada talking about it. It’s a crock. For someone who doesn’t want to be a spokesperson for gay causes, he’s doing a poor job of stepping away from it.

clearone, are you kidding? LOL! There was a countdown clock for the longest time on AfterElton about when Luke & Noah would kiss again. There was the mistletoe “kiss” when the camera deliberately panned away. Then there was the infamous Valentine’s Day episode in which they were the ONLY featured couple not to kiss. As for Brothers & Sisters, Justin and Rebecca are regularly all over each other while Kevin and Scotty’s relationship hearkens back to those you might find on I Love Lucy and the Dick Van Dyke Show – chaste kisses and the occasional hand on the upper body. On AfterElton, there are detailed analyses of how Kevin and Scotty are clearly treated in a discriminatory fashion compared to all the hetero couples.

I don’t need to imply anything about a double standard. I’m saying right up front that it’s a fact.

SparklesATL, you nailed it!

Again’ ¦the premise of American Idol is that the ‘best’  singer wins.

Is it? If you wanna know who’s the best singer go to some music school and people who know about it will tell you.
The premise of AI is a reality show that takes unknown people from their houses and puts them on the biggest stage singing other people’s songs. And then the public votes for their favorite. Millions and millions watch it and I’d say more than 90% of those millions could care less about the music that comes next. They just want the show to entertainment them. Of course, if those contestants (winner or non winners) become relevant in the music business, that’s better for the show.
They promisse a contract and an album to the winner, and every winner has got that.
I don’t see any flaw here.

Just because one singer sells more than another or one movie makes more box office doesn’t necessarily make it the best representative of anything, other than popularity. A lot of good product doesn’t sell as well as the current fad, whatever that might be.

Actually, the same thing can be said for Idol voting — Idol voting is free, you can vote literally thousands of times and we know that people vote for a wide range of reasons — not just for the best singer. In contrast, you have to pay money to buy an album or go to a movie.

Well obviously this thread is full of gay activists who don’t care what the average person sees……so I’m obviously out of my element. I just want to hear the guy sing. All the crap that has happened with the AMA’s has taken away from the music and the fallout does as well. I don’t think it’s Adam’s job to become the poster boy for all gays but some here sure do and I think he’s beginning to as well despite his protests to the contrary earlier and that is sad to me. He doesn’t need to do all this for the attention. His talent speaks for himself but obviously it’s not enough for some of you……and that is sad as well……but he did it to himself with the fiasco of the AMA’s. So much for the music.

We all know that the “premise” of American Idol is not the reality but it has always been advertised as (and I’ll paraphrase) American “finding” the next great pop star. And of course the winner is rarely the best singer but that is just my lazy nomenclature for categorizing who wins.

Again…we can all find a million reasons why being “The American Idol” isn’t neccessarily endorsing the fact that (for want of a better term) the best man won. I am just saying that (again for simplicity) someone not familiar with the mechanisms of how the show really works wouldn’t be erroneous in believing that the winner should sell the most. A simple mind would find that a reasonable assumption. Over and out!

Oh ‘ ¦ and I would leave the media out of it. They certainly didn’t embrace David Cook and he still sold more albums than Archie. The media sometimes have their own agendas, favorites, and prejudices which do not necessarily reflect how the vote goes.

But would you say the media embraced Archie more than they did Cook? I didn’t find that the case. Cook was on SNL, and Oprah and had his Magic Rainbows song part of the Olympics, I think he got his fair share of media attention and love and at the very least, more than Archie got. Though I of course wholly agree with the idea that the media has it’s own agenda, which I would say would be it’s best financial interests.

We are saying that while winners may get the most sales, that is not the only consideration since the number of votes may not reflect the actual number of fans.

But doesn’t that get into the whole “is X the real winner of AI?” because yikes! besides my general point that the point of the show and pretty reasonable expectation, is that the person that won was the best, they’re expected to sell the most afterwards. I agree that very well might not be the case this year, but it’s the exception, rather than the rule, so I’m just saying it’s reasonable to expect the rule, rather expect that something unusual will occur. Heretofore it’s been 1/7 where the runner-up did a better job than the winner. In fact most of the runners up, Justin, Diana, Bo, Kat, Blake have done pretty poorly with their sales and music careeers. Clay did well initially, but his long term musical success has been pretty non-existent. Archie has been pretty successful thus far, and I hope he continues to do so, but not as successful as Cook.

I think I was just trying to say

It is not relevant to the actual (and, some might argue, reasonable) expectations of a typical casual viewer or non-viewer.

this. Again, if you went outside the bubble and asked people if they expected the winner to do better than the person he/she beat, I betcha most people would say yes, and because the person won. And I think that generally speaking, that’s not an unreasonable position to have. And it’s an expectation is that is generally speaking, born out by what happens.

If your point is that we in the bubble shouldn’t expect that Kris should do better than Adam given all the other factors, okay, but that’s not what I was talking to, that’s another issue. And that is an issue I don’t think we have consesus on.

clearone, I totally agree.

Actually, the same thing can be said for Idol voting ‘” Idol voting is free, you can vote literally thousands of times and we know that people vote for a wide range of reasons ‘” not just for the best singer. In contrast, you have to pay money to buy an album or go to a movie.

The Idol voting system is riddled with fraud — people voting for their favorite (for whatever reason: because he’s cute, because he’s from their regional area or state, because he’s more holy, or even — imagine that! — because he’s the best singer), and they vote for this contestant thousands of times. He who wins may have the fans who can text the fastest and most furious.

There are a lot of people who ridicule the nation’s No.1 TV program, but few are very concerned about the corrupt and fraudulent voting system. The show’s producers don’t care, because the fraudulent voting process makes for great TV and great TV spells great ratings. And that means more money pouring in to AI coffers: AI8 set a record for revenue produced, and it did so on fewer viewers. Even the emphasis on “tearjerkers” and “eccentric clowns” couldn’t convert into increased viewership. And neither could “the greatest singer of all time,” to borrow a phrase sarcastically used on another thread.

Again’ ¦the premise of American Idol is that the ‘best’  singer wins. Kris is called ‘The American Idol’  and with that moniker he should be getting the best reception and the most sales. Otherwise there is no point in having an American Idol Champion. If the champion isn’t the one being embraced by the media and the record buyers than the system is flawed and American Idol’s premise is flawed.

The singer that wins may not be the best singer but they certainly are the most popular singer that year. And yes, you would think they’d sell the best.

I can’t really explain Kris’ situation. Apparently he won by quite a bit. He’s done excellent promo and radio has embraced his single. It’s a mystery.

All the crap that has happened with the AMA’s has taken away from the music and the fallout does as well.

I may be totally off base but I don’t think that Adam’s CD is a visual of the AMAs….so people buying it are all about the music. They definitely aren’t buying it to reward him for what he “did” during his AMA performance…’cause his singing wasn’t real good. But somehow, even with all the bru-ha-ha people buying the album must think there is something, musically, they will enjoy. Or maybe they are just buying it because of the pretty picture on the cover.

I think it should cost money to vote. The money could go to charity or something and it doesn’t have to be a lot of money…but people would think twice before dialing that phone one million times if they were paying for it.

What next in the name of ‘art’ ? A live-action cluster f*ck at the Oscars? With dogs? Don’t ‘discriminate’  against them dawgs! And I’m saying this not just against Adam’s performance but any entertainer out there doing the same thing.

So am I getting this clearly. Sex between men is akin to beastiality? Is there some kind of continuum I am missing?

I am no gay activist, but I certainly see the double standard between the way gays are treated and heterosexuals on teevee. The very fact that CBS continued to blur the photo of Adam and his bandmember while showing Britney and Madonna clearly is evidence of that fact. If they were conflicted because of an ongoing lawsuit, the best thing to do would be blur both. That they didn’t is clearly bias.

While I do think that Adam went to far, I wasn’t shocked, the only reason I worried about what he did was for the sake of his career, not some misguided notion that anyone seeing that would have an adverse effect. I see shit that offends me every day. From stupid commercials that lie to me and insult my intelligence, to silly shows that go for the lowest and most crass, or violent portrayals for no good reason. At least this is creating some meaningful discourse, even among the people who are repulsed by the whole thing, or who are just damn amused.

First of all the “best” singer rarely wins AI. If you go by “technical” vocal ability, David Archuletta, Melinda Doolittle and Jennifer Hudson all should have won their seasons.

Second, there is nothing written saying that the person who wins is going to have the most sales of the contestants that season. Nor is there anything that proves that 1st week sales = long term success — Ruben and Taylor are proof of that. Likewise, weak(er) 1st week sales doesn’t necessarily = doom.

Thirdly, and most importantly, if you count album AND singles sales, I think Kris actually IS outselling Adam. There was some article that claimed that Kris had sold 1.1 million to Adam’s 997,000 — and that article came out prior to any of their singles being released. And according to the sales thread that was posted the other day, LLWD (155,340) was easily outselling FYE (63,927). I haven’t seen any recent sales totals for TFM, but it is more than possible that LLWD has exceeded the COMBINED totals for Adam’s 2 singles.

And I’m sorry, but you can’t ignore singles sales when going on and on about this argument about whether the winner or runner-up is selling more.

So even if Adam’s 1st week album sales are — say — 215,000, compared to Kris’ 80,000+, I don’t know if that differential would actually give Adam an edge in OVERALL sales.

So, I’m sorry — but where exactly is the proof that Adam is leaving Kris in his dust? Because so far, he hasn’t. Maybe in the future they’re will be some big gap in their sales numbers, but right now there is not.

I see shit that offends me every day. From stupid commercials that lie to me and insult my intelligence, to silly shows that go for the lowest and most crass, or violent portrayals for no good reason.

I used to die during Idol when the commercials would come on for HOUSE and something else really creepy and violent. My kids and I would be having a great time watching a family show and then the commercials where like a nightmare. Someone must have complained because I noticed it seemed better during season 8. But it’s hard to “parent” commercials…what are you suppossed to do? Make them close their eyes and ears? Turn it off and risk missing the start of the next singer?

You know that American Idol voting is a sham when, according to the ratings this year, an average of around 23 million viewers watched each show, but 100 million voted in the finale.

I’d like to have somebody explain that discrepancy to me, and do it with a straight face.

girlygirl
11/26/2009 at 11:29 pm

Good….Kris should be outselling Adam he won!

Thirdly, and most importantly, if you count album AND singles sales, I think Kris actually IS outselling Adam. There was some article that claimed that Kris had sold 1.1 million to Adam’s 997,000 ‘” and that article came out prior to any of their singles being released. And according to the sales thread that was posted the other day, LLWD (155,340) was easily outselling FYE (63,927). I haven’t seen any recent sales totals for TFM, but it is more than possible that LLWD has exceeded the COMBINED totals for Adam’s 2 singles.

I really don’t mean to be petty, but that must be some cold comfort to Kris’ fans. I don’t believe for a moment that Kris out sold Adam during the competition. So I truly believe that those numbers are a secret for a reason. That would probably change the equation entirely and explain Kris’ cd sales as well.

You know that American Idol voting is a sham when, according to the ratings this year, an average of around 23 million viewers watched each show, but 100 million voted in the finale.

Votes, not voters.

I haven’t seen any recent sales totals for TFM, but it is more than possible that LLWD has exceeded the COMBINED totals for Adam’s 2 singles.

Possible, but unlikely.

Natasha-It is really not true that the winner is certainly the most popular. It may be true. It may even be true most of the time, but winning AI does not tell you that. Winning tells you nothing except that they won.

Abbysee

Why would it matter who outsold who DURING the competition when the argument going around on this board is that the WINNER should outsell everyone else. During the competition, no one knew who the winner would be, did they? The argument is about what happens AFTER a winner is announced.

(But we already know that Adam and Kris were easily outselling all the other Idols on itunes during the competition, because there was an article about that, too).

But doesn’t that get into the whole ‘is X the real winner of AI?’  because yikes! besides my general point that the point of the show and pretty reasonable expectation, is that the person that won was the best, they’re expected to sell the most afterwards.

If the winner is supposed to sell the most albums, then why didn’t Adam win?

What next in the name of ‘art’ ? A live-action cluster f*ck at the Oscars? With dogs? Don’t ‘discriminate’  against them dawgs! And I’m saying this not just against Adam’s performance but any entertainer out there doing the same thing.

Because clearly if we condone those homosexuals we will be going down the slippery slope to bestiality. Clearly. The connection is so obvious.

DLee

Actually, no, it’s not that unlikely that LLWD has exceeded the combined total of Adam’s two singles. According to the figures that were in the sales thread the other day, LLWD had outsold FYE by nearly 92,000. Do you really think TFM has sold 92,000 copies? I don’t — because it fell off the charts weeks ago.

girlygirl
11/26/2009 at 11:44 pm

DLee

Actually, no, it’s not that unlikely that LLWD has exceeded the combined total of Adam’s two singles. According to the figures that were in the sales thread the other day, LLWD had outsold FYE by nearly 92,000. Do you really think TFM has sold 92,000 copies? I don’t ‘” because it fell off the charts weeks ago.

Oh, well you’re probably right. You seem to know more about it than I do.

So even if Adam’s 1st week album sales are ‘” say ‘” 215,000, compared to Kris’ 80,000+, I don’t know if that differential would actually give Adam an edge in OVERALL sales.

So, I’m sorry ‘” but where exactly is the proof that Adam is leaving Kris in his dust? Because so far, he hasn’t. Maybe in the future they’re will be some big gap in their sales numbers, but right now there is not.

There apparently is a BIG gap, not sometime in the future, but right here, right now, in album sales: around 225,000 is the industry estimate for Adam, and around 85,000 or maybe slightly less than that for Kris.

Man, that’s getting beaten by almost 3-to-1! How much bigger could a “gap” be?

But, if you’re thinking that Kris should be selling more albums, I agree with you. I would like to see him hit the Jordin Sparks threshhold, at least.

girlygirl
11/26/2009 at 11:44 pm

In the long run it isn’t about unit sales of singles and albums…it is all about who brings in the most revenue…and we won’t know that for a while yet. That includes sales, tours, paid gigs, merchandising and endorsements. That is really the final determining factor.

I believe that last year Carrie blew all the other idols out of the water…she makes a ton of money!

So I truly believe that those numbers are a secret for a reason. That would probably change the equation entirely and explain Kris’ cd sales as well.

I don’t believe Kris outsold Adam either, but season 7 when we actually saw weekly popularity bars – the eventual winner outsold everyone during the show, in downloads the week after the finale and in album sales and those numbers are STILL a secret. So I don’t believe Kris being outsold is the reason for the numbers being hidden.

As far the single sales? Right now with the albums out that’s where the focus is going to be. I’m FAR from an Adam defender and I feel bad for Kris but regardless of singles (which none of them are exactly selling like hotcakes) Adam is going to have a very healthy lead over him in album sales by next week. I can analyze single numbers too but the difference in album sales even just with Adam’s prediction is staggering.

Also, I have to admit I’m really tired with this whole argument. Adam is going to sell what he sells. Kris is going to sell what he sells. Right now, neither of them is in any real danger of losing their label deal.

Sure, Jive wanted better 1st week numbers, but the fact is, Kris still posted the 2nd highest 1st week total of anyone on the Jive label who has released an album in 2009 — so by that particular label’s standards, he did more than fine. Especially when you throw in the fact his single is currently in the Top 50 on 5 separate Billboard charts and is in the Top 40 on 2 separate radio airplay charts.

And RCA is probably very happy about the 1st week projections for Adam’s albums — and hopeful that WWFM seems to be more radio friendly (for whatever reason) than FYE has been.

By the way, and totally off topic, but has anyone seen the commercial about the talking pot-hole. I think it is for car insurance. I swear that it is Kellie Pickler….and it is very cute.

I don’t believe for a moment that Kris out sold Adam during the competition. So I truly believe that those numbers are a secret for a reason. That would probably change the equation entirely and explain Kris’ cd sales as well.

They are secret because 19 feels that it would influence the vote if people knew that one contestant was out-selling another. They are secret because SoundScan doesn’t let you report sales (except in special circumstances) from weeks that you previously declined to report. They are secret because 19 is secretive about everything. They won’t even give us voting totals for the contestants years after the season is over.

Idol started offering singles for sale in S5. That’s four years of not reporting in-season sales.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that they did this because they knew that one day (years in the future), Adam Lambert would outsell Kris and even though they LOVE Adam Lambert and think Kris is a party crasher, they did it all to make Kris look good.

So, I don’t think there is anything nefarious going on this season at all. It’s situation normal.

Thirdly, and most importantly, if you count album AND singles sales, I think Kris actually IS outselling Adam. There was some article that claimed that Kris had sold 1.1 million to Adam’s 997,000 ‘” and that article came out prior to any of their singles being released. And according to the sales thread that was posted the other day, LLWD (155,340) was easily outselling FYE (63,927). I haven’t seen any recent sales totals for TFM, but it is more than possible that LLWD has exceeded the COMBINED totals for Adam’s 2 singles.

To be honest it doesn’t really matter. Adam lost. He shouldn’t outsell Kris. He didn’t win. Kris did. Kris is being compared to other Idol winners where Adam is not and shouldn’t be.

Secondly, people are going to focus on album sales – not necessarily single sales. They are also going to focus on where they debut on the billboard chart. Radio play, etc are important, don’t get me wrong, but in the end the focus is going to be on how many album units were moved and therefore how much money one makes. As much as Jordin is on the radio she sold like 46,000 albums her first week. Not good.

Third of all, and I know I already stated it but Kris should sell the most. He got the most votes and therefore is perceived as the most popular. Its all about perception. The winner should do the best in my opinion. If not then whats the point of having a winner? In the long run maybe Kris will do better, who knows. But his album debut is not good compared to previous Idol winners.

Personally, I think part of the lack of sales is that the “spark” of AI is wearing off. Sure, people watch it, its good TV, but they aren’t necessarily invested in supporting the contestants with their pocketbooks where it matters. Viewership was low last year and I look for that to continue. Maybe having Ellen as a judge will change that, but I doubt it. The show has turned into a great big pageant in my opinion and we already have a Miss America pageant, and I personally can’t stand that one.

Tess

I agree that touring revenue is a big deal. But we don’t even know yet what kinds of tours Kris and Adam are going to go out on. All we’ve heard is that Kris supposedly will start touring in February, and Adam sometime “in the spring” — maybe. But will they go out on solo tours or open for more established names? Will they play smaller venues or bigger ones?

The argument is about what happens AFTER a winner is announced.

I think the discussion is really about moving more units. Period. That we have all of these little windows is intriguing. During the season is an unknown, after the season, but not counting the new material is almost a wash, and the singles from the cd is playing out before our eyes, so I can’t make a proper determination.

I mean the coronation tunes usually sell shit loads. Even the fact that NOBO was a shitfest couldn’t cover up that Kris had a problem coming right out of the gate. Almost all coronations singles are usually trounced by everyone, yet they tend to sell pretty well. People enjoy having that idol trinket, that this went thud should have been an indicator that there was a disconnect between Kris and his fans. Of course it’s all speculation, but I think I am allowed.

Well obviously this thread is full of gay activists who don’t care what the average person sees’ ¦’ ¦

Well, I’m an average person. I am not gay, nor am I a gay activist. I consider myself to be a human right’s activist. Just because I believe gay males should be treated like the other human beings on this earth, does not mean I am not an “average person”.

So even if Adam’s 1st week album sales are ‘” say ‘” 215,000, compared to Kris’ 80,000+, I don’t know if that differential would actually give Adam an edge in OVERALL sales.
So, I’m sorry ‘” but where exactly is the proof that Adam is leaving Kris in his dust? Because so far, he hasn’t. Maybe in the future they’re will be some big gap in their sales numbers, but right now there is not.

Wow! This is really reaching. But hey, Kris won! He should be beating Adam in sales. So…there you go. Kris is doing better than Adam.

Right now, neither of them is in any real danger of losing their label deal.

I definitely agree with this.

. According to the figures that were in the sales thread the other day, LLWD had outsold FYE by nearly 92,000. Do you really think TFM has sold 92,000 copies? I don’t ‘” because it fell off the charts weeks ago.

Of course TfM didn’t sell that many copies. But didn’t it sell 46000 in it’s first week? Not much since then of course, not like the steady sales of LLWD, I’m just saying that the figure Kris should be ahead is than around 92000-46000, so 46000. So if Adam does come in above 126000 + whatever Kris sells this week, than he will have more sales overall than Kris.

Not that it matters, because in my original post on this, lost in mist of pages back, I made the point that Kris HAD sold more than Adam post AI thus far, so that went to my point why it would still be reasonable to expect Kris as the winner, to do better sales wise than Adam. Because right now, he is. Will that change by next week? possibly, we’ll see.

Because clearly if we condone those homosexuals we will be going down the slippery slope to bestiality. Clearly. The connection is so obvious.

You missed my point completely. It has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality. The only part in his performance at the AMAs that put me off was the part where they simulated the blowjob. I don’t believe that act is confined to homosexuals *cough!*. If John Mayer / Usher / Elton John / David Cook had done it in a public performance, I’d find it similarly repulsive. That’s it. And that if you’ve done that, then what will you / the next new superstar do to top it?

Adam has the singing chops to do this without resorting to cheap shocks.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that they did this because they knew that one day (years in the future), Adam Lambert would outsell Kris and even though they LOVE Adam Lambert and think Kris is a party crasher, they did it all to make Kris look good.

Nice try Kirsten, I certainly made no such leap! You don’t hear conspiracy theories coming from me. I’ve been watching this show too long for such BS. If that’s the case then David A’s fans could have made the leap that when Rickey started positing on the popularity bars that season that it actually helped Cookie unfairly because of course people want to jump on the bandwagon. Let me reiterate that the implication of anything nefarious was your leap not mine. As girly pointed out we got a glimpse that Adam and Kris were kicking ass during the seaon. Did that hurt or hinder Danny? My point, if you read and comprehend what I said it that there is a major disconnect between Kris and his fans when, if he won by this overwhelming margin (that I’ve certainly heard you buy into), in similar fashion to Cookie beating Archie, that he should at least be selling on par with Adam if not so far behind. And I am not talking about single sales, because neither of them are selling for shit in that area.

girlygirl
11/27/2009 at 12:00 am

I’m not debating anything here…nor am I making a judgment on who is the best seller or not. And I don’t have a clue if anybody is going on tour, or if anybody has endorsement deals.

I am just not a “units” kind of person. What interests me is the Gross income that someone makes (my form of penis envy, I guess). If I remember correctly the difference in revenue between Cookie and Archie was commensurate with how they finished on Idol. But I also seem to remember that Killie Pickler made a ton of money…go figure. (I does love me some Pickler…one smart lady, that one).

abbysee-I, also, believe Adam out sold Kris during the show. I’m not saying that to disrespect Kris. I just wish we had the numbers to prove what we believe to be true.
However, the real question now is about album sells. We’ll have to wait until next week for some numbers for Adam. I’m crossing my fingers.

GaryJ

Again, you are just focusing on album sales. And we don’t even know yet what Adam’s 1st week number s…all we know is the projection, which isn’t necessarily going to even be close to the final figure.

LLWD has outsold FYE by more than 2-to-1. THAT is a big gap, as well.

Again, I don’t understand the argument about whoever wins AI has to outsell the runner-up. Why? Do all the musicians who win Grammys or VMAs or AMAs or People’s Choice Awards or whatever necessarily sell tons of albums? I doubt it. Some do, some don’t. Do movies that win Golden Globes or Oscars make tons of $$$ at the box office? Very rarely. Conversely, there are absolute crap films that make tons of $$$ and musicians who get slammed by reviewers who sell lots of albums and draw big crowds on tour.

Personally, I think part of the lack of sales is that the ‘spark’  of AI is wearing off

I agree with this.

Right now, neither of them is in any real danger of losing their label deal.

Does anyone know which Idol was dropped the quickest?

Also, I have to admit I’m really tired with this whole argument. Adam is going to sell what he sells. Kris is going to sell what he sells. Right now, neither of them is in any real danger of losing their label deal.

Well that’s the important thing to this Adam stan/Kris fan, because I want them both to do well. And in my original post that seems to have started this (sorry guys) I said that Kris had a history of slow and steady growth, on the show, with LLWD and he could very well have that with his album. I know that is what I’m hoping for.

Sure, Jive wanted better 1st week numbers, but the fact is, Kris still posted the 2nd highest 1st week total of anyone on the Jive label who has released an album in 2009 ‘” so by that particular label’s standards, he did more than fine. Especially when you throw in the fact his single is currently in the Top 50 on 5 separate Billboard charts and is in the Top 40 on 2 separate radio airplay charts.

Things like this ^ certainly point to the potential for Kris to continue to have get his name out there, and having that build album sales over the long term.

And RCA is probably very happy about the 1st week projections for Adam’s albums ‘” and hopeful that WWFM seems to be more radio friendly (for whatever reason) than FYE has been.

Well I hope that WWFM does get some radio presence. *fingers crossed* because I want long term success for Adam as well and radio play will help with that. Right now even if he does have good sales this week, I think Kirsten is right, not just becasue she hates Adam as an OW, that his sales decline could be a lot steeper than other idols, which is a pretty sharp drop anyway. Sort of like TfM had. Yikes! So want to avoid that situation.

I think the downfall of the discussion regarding AI winners selling more etc. is the fact that the type of music is different. It’s apples, oranges and vegetables to me. The season 8 top four are all creating distinctly different music. Adam and Kris in particular. The percentage of people who like Kris’s music is probably different than the total percentage that like Adam’s music (and there will be those like myself who like both). There are plenty of people who watch the show and vote but forget about all of it right after the TV show is done.

I fear that my food coma is not allowing my brain to work well enough to post much, so I will just post that Cookie apparently managed to succeed in his operation to eat a whole pumpkin pie:

thedavidcook — Mission accomplished…

The percentage of people who like Kris’s music is probably different than the total percentage that like Adam’s music

John Mayer and Norah Jones came out the same week as Kris and had great sales #s. Kris’ type of music sells just as much as Adam’s type of music.

What the hell type of music is SuBo? Is it popular? She is blowing EVERYONE away!

LLWD has outsold FYE by more than 2-to-1.

Could that be partly because LLWD has been out twice as long as FYE?

Nice try Kirsten, I certainly made no such leap! You don’t hear conspiracy theories coming from me.

Alright, I apologize.

But I must admit I’m then mystified about your post:

I don’t believe for a moment that Kris out sold Adam during the competition. So I truly believe that those numbers are a secret for a reason.

What does it mean? Why are they being kept a secret? The “So” seems to imply that there is a conclusion being drawn from the claim in the previous statement. Is there a new motivation to keep them secret this year as opposed to the motivations in previous years? The only new ones I can think of are conspiracy related, so I’d be interested in what these new reasons are (other than the reasons I posted that Idol has given as the reasons for several seasons so they aren’t new).

Obviously the tryptophan has worn off

Simply comparing total units sold is misleading. Here’s an analogy. You have two authors both established and both are equally good writers. One writes gory, murder mysteries and the other writes romances. Say that only 20% of the adult U.S. population likes gory, murder mysteries and 50% of the adult U.S. population likes romances (numbers are complete fiction). If half of the 20% buys the murder mystery book and half of the 50% buys the romance book, who has sold more books? Who is a more popular author? The romance book author simply because more people like romance books. But they both managed to sell to half of their respective audiences.

What I’m trying to say is you have to look at the size of the audience who like that type of music and then look at how many of that audience actually bought. Those numbers aren’t available. It’s possible that more people like Kris’s type of music but it seems to me like there are also more artists who are putting out that type of music. Is Adam’s sound more unique? Females are doing that type of pop but not males? Perhaps less competition but what percent of the buying public like his sound.

I just want them to be able to continue making their music. And I think it will take a lot more time before we really know how they are doing.

GaryJ

Again, you are just focusing on album sales.

When the numbers come out next week HDD, Billboard and anyone else who will no doubt compare Adam/Kris numbers..do you think they won’t focus on album sales? It may seem silly to you but this isn’t a new thing and it’s never going to stop. DC took a beating in the press last year when Crush outsold Light On, but the same people sure shut up fast when the album numbers came in.

And we don’t even know yet what Adam’s 1st week number s’ ¦all we know is the projection, which isn’t necessarily going to even be close to the final figure

I’m going to make a wild and crazy guess here based on following HDD a long time, but I think Adam is going to sell a lot more than 80,000.

I fear that my food coma is not allowing my brain to work well enough to post much, so I will just post that Cookie apparently managed to succeed in his operation to eat a whole pumpkin pie

I was expecting his next tweet to read something like “Operation drink a whole bottle of Pepto Bismol is a go!” LOL

Could that be partly because LLWD has been out twice as long as FYE?

Oooh, good point. Also, FYE (the song) has been steadily moving up on the iTunes pop chart the past few days (it’s now #20, so it could crack the top 10). I think it’ll eventually sell more than Kris’. We’ll just have to wait and see.

tiger92
11/27/2009 at 12:24 am

The percentage of people who like Kris’s music is probably different than the total percentage that like Adam’s music

John Mayer and Norah Jones came out the same week as Kris and had great sales #s. Kris’ type of music sells just as much as Adam’s type of music.

You are probably right. I didn’t mean to imply one definitely had a bigger audience than the other. Do you think they both have the same amount of competition? Meaning does a buyer have the same number of artists within Kris’s type of music or Adam’s type of music to choose from? Did that make sense? I just think there are too many variables to really know. To me it doesn’t matter who is doing better. I just want to continue to hear them make music (tour and record).

LLWD has outsold FYE by more than 2-to-1.

Could that be partly because LLWD has been out twice as long as FYE?

IIRC, LLWD has sold better in comparing their respective weeks, like Kris’s week one to Adam’s week one, K W2 to A W2, etc., overall, I believe. Though the point of cume sales and length of time of Kris’s single being out being longer than Adam’s, is a valid factor, but not the main one of selling more singles week after week. Thus far Kris is doing better with growth there. FYE has had a more negative slope thus far.

tiger92
“John Mayer and Norah Jones came out the same week as Kris and had great sales #s. Kris’ type of music sells just as much as Adam’s type of music.”

I’m actually happy and proud of Kris (and I think he will feel the same) knowing someone had compared him with John Mayer and Norah Jones and put him in the same league as them!!! YAY for Kris! You’ve made it!

Tess-I read somewhere that touring is how they make the real money. Certainly, Michael Jackson was counting on it. However, I read that tour attendance was down 40% this year. That’s why this year’s tour was considered successful. This summer’s AI tour was almost identical in attendance and gross income to last summer’s S7 tour. I believe this was due to Adam. One concert goer reported that a salesperson told her that of 15 boxes of T-shirts sold, 14 were for him. I don’t know how to equal high decibel level screaming to attendees for Adam, but we all heard it all summer.
Having said that, there are just too many variables to consider to make a guess about how any future tours might produce profits.

I, also, believe Adam out sold Kris during the show. I’m not saying that to disrespect Kris. I just wish we had the numbers to prove what we believe to be true.
However, the real question now is about album sells. We’ll have to wait until next week for some numbers for Adam. I’m crossing my fingers.

Crossing your fingers for what? To see Adam “beat” Kris? Why does it matter so much?

Crossing your fingers for what? To see Adam ‘beat’  Kris? Why does it matter so much?

I think the crossing fingers was in reference just to Adam doing well, not “beating,” Kris. I sure have my fingers crossed for a good week for Adam, but for me it has nothing at all with “beating,” Kris, I just want it for A