evanjane:

Whether it’s Adam’s fans repeating the mantra of Homophobic America

Especially, if people who are in Adam’s corner are labeling most of America, homophobes. I know it bugs the hell out of me.

Respectfully, I think you are misstating the position of many of Adam’s fans here. This whole thread started when Gene Simmons was quoted as telling Adam Lambert to “shut the f**k up” about his sexuality. Why? Because, according to Gene, the masses living in Wisconsin and Nebraska and the rest of the world are homophobic and Adam was, in effect, killing his career by discussing it.

The majority of Adam fans responded by saying, uh, wrong, Gene. The fact that Adam did as well on the show as he did demonstrates that a ton of folks could care less about his sexuality, that the times they are “a changin’” and that Adam has most certainly not killed his career. And, oh by the way, Gene, you’re a big old hypocrite if you think that the folks in Wisconsin and Nebraska want to hear about your sexual exploits and how you’ve (allegedly) screwed some 2,000 (unfortunate) women.

I think the person labeling America as homophobic is Gene Simmons, not Adam’s fans.

Which is not to say that homophobia doesn’t exist in this country. I personally think it does and that it hampered Adam’s initial attempts to break into the recording industry when he attempted to segue there from musical theater. I think Adam has stated quite clearly he wasn’t sure how he would be received by the AI viewing public, and the tears in his eyes during the recent MJ night repeat were a poignant reminder of how grateful he felt to receive the support of the judges and the studio audience in one of those early performances, especially since those kissing pictures had just hit the airwaves and were all over the news. I guess the only issue I have is with people who try to deny that homophobia exists at all or who argue that because we all have “differences,” it’s really a level playing field. It’s not and, imo, that’s a simplistic view of the world.

This is a big misconception. Adam had the cover long before he was to reveal his sexuality. The cover and his sexuality had nothing to do with each other, the story was just going to be fluff, but Adam wanted it to be more.

ETA: ****Now THAT would have been ‘heroic’  in my book.
yep, I am sure that would be considered heroic, to just stand up on the idol stage and say, oh, and by the way, I like dudes. Way to go Adam, context, please? Seriously’ ¦.
*** ****

There is a time and a place for everything, and I think Adam handled the situation very well. I liked that he did it on his own terms and to please himself not the scoop hungry media.

If they are aware at all, reading the back and forth bickering, will not help Adam. Especially, if people who are in Adam’s corner are labeling most of America, homophobes. I know it bugs the hell out of me.

I’m Christian. In fact, I’m Catholic. My brother-in-law is a Gay Catholic. My husband is a Divorced Catholic. I married in a non-denominational Protestant church, and in the eyes of the Catholic church, I’m not married. I can live with that because in my heart, in the deepest part of me, I believe in the end I only answer to God. I’m friends with very cool priests. It’s all good. My children are happy, I’m happy. TMI Iknow, but I felt it was necessary for some to see where my world-view derived.

It’s a different world with difficult choices to make. People are struggling day-to-day with ISSUES that have nothing to do with Adam Lambert being gay. He’s made peace with it, perhaps his fanbase should as well.

The media iniitially saw that the gay controversy “sold”. I’m sure there was a spike in sales for US weekly, People, Entertainment Weekly. I bought several magazines for Kris Allen that I normally don’t buy. The boys, hot off Idol, sold magazines. The media ran with it. No one I know bought Rolling Stone for Adam, even the ones that loved him. Last year, I bought it for David Cook and he as last year’s winner of American Idol wasn’t on the cover. He didn’t deserve it, not yet. He’s still paying his dues, building up his rock cred and audience. He had a nice piece inside with pictures. Coldplay was on the cover that year.

It was my “fervent” belief, Adam was on the cover because of the Gay reveal. That is where he said he chose to reveal it, in print. He thought it would be cool. There’s a lot of hot, proven artists out there that deserved the cover more. I am not berating Adam’s talent at all.

I am not here to convert you from your beliefs. I know whatever I say will not change that. No worries.

I believe Kris Allen and Adam Lambert were the best thing that happened to America, and I’m not talking talent-wise. They are what young America is all about — on the whole. America would have imploded long ago, if we as a nation couldn’t live together with all its diversity. I live next door to a Puerto Rican family and an Albanian family. Multi-cultural at it’s finest.

Kris Allen walks the walk. We should all do the same. Less lip-service, and more living by example.

Now I move on… Again, peace Laurel G. (I’ve finished debating this. Thank you.)

carolinacharms:

If you read what Gene says in this latest interview, you might reasonably conclude that while Gene believes Adam to be more than worthy of commercial success, he is, nevertheless, concerned that a broader cross-section of the American buying public might be turned-off by all the talk about his sexual orientation. That’s all! In other words, he’s of the belief that the ‘gay’  talk is but a distraction’“a distraction that threatens to overshadow all else. Simple as that.

Ummm, no, I think what he said was that Adam has killed his career. Killed it. In an instant. Simple as that. That’s my conclusion anyway, based on his words which speak for themselves and need no reinterpretation, imo.

And I think what Ross actually said was … “It seems almost heroic to me.” No, I don’t think anyone’s awarding Adam a purple heart just yet, but I do recognize that what he’s done already takes courage. A lot of other people do too.

Love Kris too. And his brand of Christianity.

I’m not awarding him a Purple Heart or anything, but what he’s doing does take courage.

Incidentally, this whole thing reminds me even more of why I love Kris. I am Christian, and it so often seems like most public figures who call themselves Christians are the ones comparing homosexuality to bestiality, so having someone like Kris come on the scene is truly inspiring.

Absolutely….

IsIsDagmar: Farm animals? Homophobes relating sex with sheep or cows to sex between two humans of the same gender? Never heard of it, and I don’t know anyone who would draw such a relationship’“directly or even tangentially. Ick

These comparisons are ubiquitous. Read any statement by anyone who opposes gay marriage, especially any politician. Read any statement by any pastor or other religious leader who opposes gay marriage. Look at any of the ads run or statements made about Prop 8. Listen to Rush Limbaugh. Turn on Fox News pretty much any time.

When people don’t approve of homosexuality, they compare it to bestiality, incest, and pedophilia. This is done constantly, and has been done for decades, especially by the religious right. You’re the first person I’ve ever come across, in any part of the country, who wasn’t aware of such comparisons, and I highly doubt that Simmons isn’t.

I’m not saying that he’s necessarily a “rabid homophobe” as Will said, but the fact that his mind jumped from gay sex to sex with animals (again, that would never happen with someone discussing heterosexual sex) speaks of at least some homophobia, whether conscious or unconscious. A “sick sense of humor” doesn’t lead someone to indirectly put gay sex in the same category as bestiality. Homophobia does that, and I’ve seen that comparison made too often to believe that it can be made innocently.

Those are just the facts. If you really don’t want to believe that his comments might contain offensive elements, you don’t have to.

As for Adam being heroic: he has said that he didn’t want to have to deal with questions about his sex life while he was trying to focus on the music and acclimate to his sudden fame, and he wanted his time on AI to be as much about him as a singer/performer as possible, so he just was himself without discussing it until after the show, which seems like a perfectly valid way of dealing with that situation to me. No one else was being commanded to discuss their personal lives at the expense of their music, so I don’t see why the fact that he is gay means he should have been the only one to do that.

I don’t think anyone’s claiming that Adam is the heir-apparent to Harvey Milk and MLK or anything like that. But it takes real guts to live your life being exactly who you are when who you are is considered offensive or weird or even evil by a significant chunk of society. I am straight so I’ve never had to deal with that personally, but a number of my close friends are gay, and seeing them be made to feel like second-class citizens (as Adam is made to feel constantly, and as all gay people will be made to feel until we have full equality in this country), yet seeing them still refuse to change or moderate who they are in any way, gives me tremendous respect for them. I have tremendous respect for Adam. I don’t completely know that the word “heroic” applies–I’d have to think about that one more–but I do know that he is determined to be exactly who he is, he’s doing something that no one has done yet (although many brave people have paved the way), and that takes courage. I’m not awarding him a Purple Heart or anything, but what he’s doing does take courage.

Incidentally, this whole thing reminds me even more of why I love Kris. I am Christian, and it so often seems like most public figures who call themselves Christians are the ones comparing homosexuality to bestiality, and I don’t recognize Jesus in that at all, so having someone like Kris come on the scene is truly inspiring.

Now THAT would have been ‘heroic’  in my book.

yep, I am sure that would be considered heroic, to just stand up on the idol stage and say, oh, and by the way, I like dudes. Way to go Adam, context, please? Seriously….

Farm animals? Homophobes relating sex with sheep or cows to sex between two humans of the same gender?

Oh of course! Bestiality, pedophilia, and incest are always compared to homosexuality by the most rabid homophobes.

ETA: I’m not saying GS is a necessarily a rabid homophobe, but he sure impersonates one well when he shoots his mouth off like that.

That particular quote is almost nonsensical; it’s a fragmented thought. And so I have no idea what he meant by it. It was certainly hypothetical. Perhaps he meant that the farm animal angle would actually (if true) be worthy of revelation, lol! Gene has a sick sense of humor, this we know. But seriously, he likely changed gears and just ended the thought with a “who cares?” because a) he was either lost in his own thoughts, or b) he meant to say that Adam should be talking more about his music.

Perhaps Gene believes that while his own exploits dovetail nicely with a fan-centric marketing strategy relating to a classically heterosexual, male-dominated rock and roll ethos, Adam’s confessions (and accompanying photo essays) do not.

GS did tone down his remarks a bit in this latest interview, so it’s useful to go back to his original statements, which he says he totally stands by.

Simple as that.

Really? This is what Simmons said originally: “Mostly he should shut up about his sexual preferences. We, America, the rest of the world, really don’t care,” Simmons said, adding, “I mean, if the story becomes ‘I prefer farm animals to,’ you know, who cares?”

1) Leaving aside the fact that Adam did the Rolling Stone thing because, clearly, until he laid it all out there, the sexuality speculation was going to continue (i.e. people clearly did care, too much), Simmons is hypocritical for telling anyone to shut up about their sex life given that he discusses his with great frequency and in great detail. And he doesn’t characterize this as just his concern about how American will react to Adam–he makes it clear that it is he who does not want to hear about being gay. So, what reason could there be for that when he clearly believes that everyone is interested in hearing about all of Simmons’ heterosexual exploits?

2) Much worse: “Farm animals”? He’s talking about gay people and the first thing that jumps to his mind to compare it to is sex with animals? Please don’t tell me that you actually think that he would have used such a comparison had he been referring to a straight guy’s sex life. Homosexuality gets compared to bestiality a lot by people who don’t approve of being gay. Simmons certainly sounded like that’ what he was doing, whether consciously or unconsciously. Maybe he was just being insensitive, but the two statement together paint an unattractive picture.

So he was at minimum hypocritical, at worst homophobic. That’s why people are upset at him. I actually didn’t have much of a reaction to it because Simmons’ opinion is a) his to express and b) doesn’t matter in any material way, but I did perceive elements of both hypocrisy and homophobia that I found irritating.

If you read what Gene says in this latest interview, you might reasonably conclude that while Gene believes Adam to be more than worthy of commercial success, he is, nevertheless, concerned that a broader cross-section of the American buying public might be turned-off by all the talk about his sexual orientation. That’s all! In other words, he’s of the belief that the “gay” talk is but a distraction–a distraction that threatens to overshadow all else. Simple as that.

I don’t think for one minute that Gene is a bigot or somehow sympathizes with bigots, and I don’t find this particular statement to be bigoted or in any way sympathetic to bigots. He was simply making an observation, as a marketing expert, relative to the apparent marketing strategy of Adam Lambert, to date.

But it is true that there has been no one in the US who has been openly gay when starting their career at Adam’s level of fame. That’s something that’s been remarked on and discussed by people from Ann Powers in the LA Times to Rolling Stone to Alex Ross, the New Yorker music critic … “there’s no sense that he’s ever tried to hide it,’  said Ross. ‘He’s totally matter of fact ‘” and that is really startling to see on mainstream TV. It seems almost heroic to me.’ 

Word to this and your entire post, isisdagmar.

evanjane:

I believe the fan girls propagated the Media’s focus on Gay Adam Lambert. They bought up, read, commented on anything Adam Lambert. Whatever sells.

So you’re saying it’s the fans’ fault that the media focused so intently on Adam’s sexuality? Because they were basically doing what all fans do which is to read up on, comment on and show an interest in their favorite? Sorry, I don’t buy that one bit.

The media may have thought that’s what the reading or listening public might have wanted to know about; they might have thought it made for a good story angle because no maybe-gay person (tm Ann Powers, LA Times) with such obvious talent and potential (who was also liked by the judges) had ever reached that stage of the competition before and been within striking range of the title. But to put this at the doorstep of Adam’s fans and say they caused all the talk about his sexuality? No, I don’t believe that’s true at all.