DMB

all the best cookie!!

ooh just went to rca’s site and cookie is there right under DMB!!

I think the fall is very soon, but if he can use some of the material he already had before Idol, it’s less of a stretch.

SO looking forward to a great new record from him!!!!

But, after hair, bronzer and accessories he might have to pay it back. :eek_wp:

Actually, this is an answer to a ‘duh’ question cause why would a fan want to cybermanage his promotional budget? Can he get fries with that?

If Clay was part of this yearà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Idols and had his big hits, would he actually come out ahead of everyone? I am trying not to get too confused.

Clay’s numbers would have been good enough for him to get the the number one slot on the Hot 100. You needed about 320K to get number one this week based mainly on sales (Clay sold 393K).

But, not to take anything away from Clay, Season 2 was a special beast. Due to the controversy of changed numbers, suspicion of fixing, the first real appearance of “the bus” and the excitement of Season 2 (building on Season 1), fans really had something to prove. Would Clay and Ruben have moved that many units if those elements weren’t there? On the other hand, is that the same atmosphere TPTB tried to create this year?

And don’t forget, positions on the Hot 100 are highly relative. If somebody happens to release in a relatively quiet week, they might get Number 1 without much effort. If you have bad luck, you release in a week when the biggest song of the year releases. Lollipop has massive airplay and just got another remix released. Cookie would have been number two without that new remix. If Cookie had had one more day, he probably would have been number one.

So, there is no taking away from Cookie’s massive achievements. There is much happy dancing going on at RCA. The Press Release was rightly saved until the numbers were released.

I only posted the Hot 100 positions because they were mentioned in the press release and that started these other debates. Sorry MJ.

I suppose actual records instead of downloads for the singles are a thing of the past and that makes me sad. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m older than most(I should say all) of you and donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t care for MP3 players.

JoJo, let’s just say it is a tie as we represent the Baby Boomers. :biggrin_wp:

Kirsten, you do an excellent job explaining the difference and how we really cannot compare. But I do have one question. If Clay was part of this year’s Idols and had his big hits, would he actually come out ahead of everyone? I am trying not to get too confused. I have mentioned I cannot download and I do not have a MP3 player.

Or did you answer the question here:

Even Diana debuted higher than him. I would argue that any person who is fair minded on the subject would not include it in the rankings because it paints a very false picture.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not really sure where to say this, but ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s about David Cook, so I guess this is just as good a thread as anyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.

I’m having a super wacked-out time keeping these threads on topic today.

I’d like to keep the threads as on topic as possible.

This thread is about David Cook getting signed, and anything associated with that.

Newsworthy items like “so and so was just on x TV show” belong in the Headlines thread.

Comparing chart positions across the seasons is extremely misleading. This is the formula now, but it has changed from year to year. Singles bought used to count for a lot more, which is why songs like This is the Night went to #1 w/o significant radio play.

It really is impossible to ever compare across seasons. Every season pretty much needs a star beside it.

Sales did use to count for twice as much as airplay, but then the singles market was virtually wiped out so selling any CD single was very impressive indeed. Remember, in Season 4, selling 100K of downloads was enough to get you certified Gold. People could top the Hot Singles Chart with only a few hundred of single CDs moved.

So, it was still pretty big thing that you could get people to buy a two song CD single which cost almost half of what a 12 song CD would cost.

Sales of downloads have exploded. It goes up by something like 45% every year. They are also dirt cheap and easy to buy compared to CD singles. You often see the top downloads exceeding 200K

This season also gets a benefit because viewers have been trained to shop at iTunes over the last 3 months. Last year, the singles were not well advertised and suddenly just appeared there. AND they had to compete with themselves because there were mini-albums put out that were cheaper than buying each track individually. Plus, the download market has improved significantly.

The music market is just changing so quickly.

So, no true comparisons are possible. You are right. Those that don’t like comparisons can just ignore those posts, but other people are interested so I post them. People should just take them with a grain of salt.

Here are the * for each season
Season 1: First season. People not used to buying coronation singles.
Season 2: Ruben and Clay released on the same day
Season 3: Single was VERY expensive because it contained 3 songs.
Season 4: Both contestants recorded the same coronation song.
Season 5: Download market had started to become significant enough that it challenged Idol coronation sales numbers.
Season 1-5: Suffered a two-four week lag between finale and the release of the single. Less “We WON!” euphoria buying.
Season 6: Coronation songs not well advertised and people were not used to looking on iTunes. EPs instead of Commercial singles offered.
Season 7: Calculation for Hot 100 chart had been modified to put sales and airplay on a more equal footing.

Airplay contributes to more than 50% of the Hot 100.

Comparing chart positions across the seasons is extremely misleading. This is the formula now, but it has changed from year to year. Singles bought used to count for a lot more, which is why songs like This is the Night went to #1 w/o significant radio play.

Did anyone just see him on Best Day Ever?? It was amusing. I think he’s rehearsing for that Oscar

I believe that Blake and Jordin released in the same week as well.

That’s true. I forgot about that. I just wanted to highlight that only one of Ruben or Clay could have gotten the number 1 debut that week since that was the only year in the first 5 seasons where the Idol did not debut at number 1 and there were extenuating circumstances.

Since Katharineà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s SOTR and Blakeà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s YGLABN werenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t actually their à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“coronationà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  songs but songs performed on the show, shouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t little David be included in the list of debut positions at #36 for Imagine (as that is his highest ranking song)?

No.

It’s not at all representative and would provide a completely flawed picture. Here are my reasons.

1. Both SOTR and YGLABN were studio versions. They are full length and properly produced. Many people balk at paying full price for a shortened song that was ripped from a TV show. Especially given AI’s notoriously poor sound technicians.

2. SOTR is counted for Katharine because it was a double A side with “My Destiny” but outsold “My Destiny” by quite a bit. Effectively, it was retrofitted into being her coronation song. When BB created the Hot 100 that week, it combined the sales of the Commercial Single with SOTR downloads following a long held policy on Double A sides. As a result, “My Destiny” charted much lower than it would have if it had been combined with the Commercial Single numbers. Most people considered SOTR as her coronation single as she never did sing that crap “My Destiny” again.

3. “Imagine” had been sold on iTunes for the last 13 weeks. You can’t really compare a song that has been out for 13 weeks to a song that was just released. Most people interested in that version would have picked it up a couple of months ago. YGLABN and SOTR were released to iTunes on the week they debuted. An argument can be made not to include YGLABN if it was based just on this reason because it was available on another site.

4. The record label has clearly stated that Archie will not have a single released until mid-summer. This means that absolutely NO effort was made in getting any airplay for this song. This is not true of the other coronation songs. Granted, little effort is ever made, but in this case, there was NONE. Airplay contributes to more than 50% of the Hot 100.

If one were to group “Imagine” in with the others, it would make him look like a miserable failure compared to the others. Even Diana debuted higher than him. I would argue that any person who is fair minded on the subject would not include it in the rankings because it paints a very false picture.

Competition is over. Archie doesn’t need to be ground into dust.