David Cook asked To Fill in For Hinder Frontman, Has Possible Record Deal

According to The Hollywood Reporter, the rock band, Hinder (“Lips of an Angel”) had approached both David Cook and James Durbin to take over for frontman Austin Winkler who entered rehab for the second time. Also, David is reportedly considering a record deal from Verve.

American Idol season seven winner David Cook was approached to be the frontman of hard rock band Hinder, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. Cook turned down the offer so he can continue to work on his own music, but is said to have been “very interested” in filling in for singer Austin Winkler, who recently entered rehab for the second time.

“David Cook was at the top of our list,” Hinder manager Kevin “Chief” Zaruk of Chief Music Management tells THR. And fan favorite Cook wasn’t the only Idol the band reached out to – season 10’s James Durbin was also in the running, Zaruk reveals. “We would’ve loved to have either, but the timing didn’t work out.”

Well Hinder is kind of old news at this point, and a pretty awful band. I think both James and David are fine on their own, rather than fronting some washed up post-grunge outfit.  Members of the band are fans though. They were in the audience when David was crowned winner at the season 7 finale. The band was very enthusiastic about writing with him.

In other news, The Hollywood Reporter hears that Verve has offered David Cook a recording contract. The label is under the Universal Music Group umbrella and is run by music producer, David Foster, who has not only appeared on American Idol, but has worked with many of the alums, including Ruben Studdard, Katharine McPhee and Michael Johns. He’s also Uncle Davy to Clay Aiken’s son. His baby momma is David’s sister.

Cook is “considering” the terms of the deal, according to THR’s source.  I hope he signs somewhere. It’s going to be tough getting his music out there without decent promotion.

Via The Hollywood Reporter

  • Karen C

    I’m really glad David is working on his own music, and that he is getting opportunities such as these. If he does sign with a label, I hope he gets a good deal with creative control, no matter who he signs with. It does sound like there’s something in the works with his own music.

  • Stooch

    Don’t do it James finish you Sophomore Album and have ready for the Fall. You are nobody’s fill in singer

  • H.A.

    If Cook is considering this it’s because it may be the only offer in which case he should go for it and work the AC format. I don’t think the label is right for him but he will get the finance backing to finish his album.

  • Sassycatz

    Um .., it’s obviously *not* the only offer he’s considering and I doubt he’s even considering it. This guy has always been, it’s my way or the highway. I put more emphasis on the label deal. He’s interested in his own music because he’s an artist.

  • H.A.

    I would think Foster would let him make his own music. Why wouldn’t he?

  • disqus_CR25ev2Z1s

    We don’t know for sure that he has any other offers. But Verve Recordings is not where you want to go if you want to put out rock music. The fact that he’s considering that would indicate that his music is heading in a much more AC direction these days.

    I also would hesitate to elevate the artistic strategy of someone who doesn’t tour or promote himself except for the annual Idol appearance. Given his long period of inactivity, I doubt there are labels knocking down his door right now. Even during his most recent Idol appearance, he did not discuss his career at all, but only could talk about the house and the dog that he’s committed to. He certainly hasn’t seemed like someone very invested in his career in a long, long time.

  • Sassycatz

    Foster was very, very uncomplimentary to him previously. It was almost insulting, so I am shocked by this news.

  • Karen C

    He did discuss his career, he said he was working on an album and it would be released when he found a home for it. He has done some one off shows, but likely wouldn’t tour until his album is done.

    ETA: His new single, Laying Me Low, which he has said represents the direction he is going in, doesn’t sound AC, maybe HAC, but it is much more pop rock.

  • tripp_ncwy

    He just signed with a new booking agent so apparently he is ready or about ready to get back out on the road.

  • Sassycatz

    As opposed to what? RCA? The great rock label … NOT!

  • girlygirl

    Verve seems like a weird fit. They are known as a jazz and folk label and have a lot of AC artists. That’s its niche — not rock music. Unless David is going to go a completely different direction with his music — or the label wants to try and expand into the rock music market?

  • Karen C

    Yeah, but he was complementary last year when they did the wedding in Jakarta.

  • Karen C

    That’s what I’m thinking. I know David Foster worked with Chicago in the past. Maybe he’s looking to go back into a rock direction.

  • H.A.

    OK, what happened? If both parties are “considering” it than they must be dealing with each other like two business men. Davis is a smart guy I don’t think he would let another label screw him.

  • FallBackIntoMe

    Verve is showing signs of expanding its genres. They just signed Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits and he’ll be releasing a double album that “doesn’t define genres” in September.

    http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/news/detail?id=2532

    David Foster just became chairman of Verve in 2012. He may be trying to expand the label’s interests. IMO of course.

  • weareallinnocent

    I’m happy he’s doing his thing, and I’m hopeful for new Cook music soon!

  • Frederick

    I think you’re right.

  • Frederick

    Katharine McPhee released 2 albums with Verve, her second album and a Christmas album. Verve is a OK label I guess, but I’m glad Katharine left and signed with Columbia that’s for sure.

  • irockhard

    Dam straight! Remember when he shot down Blabbermouth for those Drowning Pool rumours last summer?

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “He’s also Uncle Davy to Clay Aikens son-whose baby momma is David’s sister.”

    “Uncle Davy”? lol

  • H.A.

    Based on his recent single I’m not sure how much Rock David is looking to go because the single was pretty HAC to me. I would think Foster would let him make the type of music he wants the problem would be to what radio format. Rock isn’t going to play Cook. POP and HAC are cold with Idols. He needs finance backing of his album and start touring.

  • Incipit

    Well, I have a bias, I don’t like Hinder’s music – and didn’t back when they were offering to write with DC, the only thing I can even think of at the moment is that IMO terrible “Lips of an Angel” ( l think Lee sang that one of the early weeks of his season). No thanks.

    However, I didn’t know about Winkler’s Rehab story, and I do think it’s kinda cool how various artists in his specific genre have stepped in to cover for him.

    Verve is a good enough house, but not a good fit – Jazz and AC seems to be their focus…and anyway, Foster. Reasons for my distaste there would be long and probably OT.

    But reading this story is amusing, it makes an interesting peek at some of the moving parts that we don’t see, and a reminder that just because We don’t hear about something, it doesn’t mean nothing is happening. Never assume.

    The Cone of Silence is still in place, every speculation and WAG here is surrounded by caveats and qualifiers…and DC still hasn’t said a word. Heh.

  • Karen C

    David has said his genre is pop rock. HAC is a radio format more than a genre.

  • Sassycatz

    He never does speak. Everyone speaks *for* him … presumably. He takes Greta Garbo to a new level.

  • girlygirl

    I wouldn’t describe Chicago as rock — not even soft rock

  • Karen C

    I’m thinking if that’s what he turned down, he must have something even better for himself in the works. And he won’t say anything until it is final.

  • milwlovesadam

    David Foster is “Uncle Davey.”

    NOT David Cook.

  • Incipit

    Well, DC does speak, Sassycatz – when there is something to say – then it will be announced.

    We would like all the nuts and bolts that go into the decisions behind the scenes – and we don’t get those. So people speculate.

    IMO.

  • irockhard

    Well James couldn’t do it even if he wanted to as he’s busy finishing up his sophomore album and will release and promote the lead single soon. Which is just as well as I hate Hinder, they suck.

  • roaringpen

    Oh yeah. I completely forgot about the Drowning Pool rumors.

  • H.A.

    Yes I know it’s a radio format which is where his singles fall. He’s more pop rock to me. I guess if Verve is expanding genres than it could work.

  • Stooch

    They probably want David and just threw James out there to put pressure on DC. I’m sure they don’t think they have a chance at getting James………….Please don’t let’em have a chance with James lol

  • suenigma

    All I know is that Verve is the home of my beloved Elvis Costello, and that’s good enough for me. Verve is a great experimental and jazz label, and they might be willing to give him a lot of rope. Cook is pretty clearly not interested in being a “Rockstar”, but in pursuing his own muse. If he can do that with Verve, I say go for it!

    Also, selfishly, Verve is based in Vancouver, so that means I might even be able to see Cook live in concert one day. And Michael Buble is not with Verve anymore, but he is still besties with Foster, so perhaps Cook and Buble will meet and fall in Brove, and tell bad jokes, pull pranks and drink beer together, and I will get to party with him. Hahahaha.

  • Sassycatz

    Well, they’re spitting in the wind because they have a better chance at James.

  • roaringpen

    Mark Knopfler is rock royalty, but is still from a bygone era. I’ve seen him live – twas a very grey-haired audience. But he is great.

  • irockhard

    No, James has a record deal and a new album on the way which will be released in a matter of months. Wind-up won’t let it happen.

  • curly_yenta

    Verve and David Cook don’t seem like a good fit. He’s a alt rock guy – a style that Verve doesn’t cater too. McPhee was on Verve for a while, and promotion for her was small. They gave her a video, but I think the album only sold in the 20K range? Can’t remember exactly. That was a good fit, on the surface, but it never got going. I bet he passes on the deal.

  • roaringpen

    I think both David and James are hanging out together in the witness protection program.

  • Stooch

    I doubt his label would agree :)

  • irockhard

    LOL stooch. James made it clear when those Drowning Pool rumours surfaced that he’s not interested in fronting any band. And he doesn’t have time for it any way, he’s gonna be super busy with the new album from next week until this time next year.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I know. I just thought that calling David Foster “Davy” was funny. :)

  • irockhard

    Actually James decided to re-enter civilization today: http://instagram.com/p/bpQPXnryWJ/

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I don’t think that Buble was ever with Verve. He is still with Reprise (Warner’s) when Foster was there. His recent album was released by Reprise:

    http://www.amazon.com/Be-Loved-Michael-Buble/dp/B00BIVN82M/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1373591372&sr=1-1&keywords=michael+buble

  • Sassycatz

    And he never will say a word.

  • Sassycatz

    They are sympatico on that point!

  • Incipit

    “Well Hinder is kind of old news at this point,”

    Everything about that Hinder story is Past Tense – for DC and for James…and they already have some artists doing front man duty at their gigs while Winkler is in Rehab this time…Hinder said about both DC and James “The timing didn’t work out.”

    The thing is neither one of them ever mentioned it. Still haven’t.

  • ThisIsVoodoo

    Don’t go to Foster’s label, it’ll be magic rainbows forever.

  • Karen C

    Rock covers a very wide range, especially 70s -80s rock. They are considered a rock band.

  • Stooch

    It’s a funny story though, but I doubt either one wants anything to do with Hinder

  • Incipit

    Heh. I doubt it too – IDK about the sources on that one – except for the Band, there aren’t any!

  • fuzzywuzzy

    moved

  • H.A.

    He needs financing to finish his singles. I can’t believe XIX/Fuller can’t find Cook a label that fits him. That’s what they get paid to do.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    From the press release announcing Foster’s appointment:

    Based in Los Angeles, Mr. Foster will lead the creative operations of Verve, with a particular focus on identifying new talent and further developing UMG’s roster of adult music and pop artists. Under his leadership, Mr. Foster will build upon Verve’s legacy of nurturing great talent at a time when music lovers are now re-embracing the singer-songwriter artistry of the genre. Over the last several years, the adult contemporary music market has grown dramatically with increasing sales and a nationwide radio audience that has swelled to over 70 million, with Mr. Foster being a key driver of that growth.

    “We are committed to expanding our A&R investment in all areas of music on a global basis, and the adult music, pop and jazz genres are very important to me,” stated Mr. Grainge. “With artists like Andrea Bocelli, Diana Krall and Jamie Cullum, among many others, UMG already has one of the finest rosters in this area. With David at the helm, we’re now uniquely positioned for even more dramatic growth. He is one of music’s most versatile and prolific hit makers, and one of the industry’s most gifted developers of talent.”

    http://www.universalmusic.com/corporate/detail/867

  • suenigma

    Yeah I should have said he is no longer with Foster’s label, not Verve. Foster produced Buble’s first four studio albums, released under Foster’s label, 143 Records. They recently parted ways, but very amicably.

  • Jennifer Bridgett Fumero

    Got to say this is best reply ever!!! I agree. No Hinder!!! Please don’t do Hinder. With Foster, you’ll be stuck singing Dianne Warren songs. It may work with something like “I Don’t Want to Miss a Thing.” Hey, you may sing with Celine Dion but that magic rainbows comment is the greatest ever!

  • justmefornow

    This story really does make you wonder what else goes on behind the scenes we fans never hear about.
    I think to this day James has never revealed who the band was that asked him to be their lead singer right after he was on Idol, has he? Does any one else remember that as well?

    Somewhat related, nice to see/hear the new snippets lately leading up to recording starting Monday.
    I can’t wait to hear this new album!

  • roaringpen

    Here is another. I hope he keeps posting these little gems. It’s been such a long dry spell.

    http://instagram.com/p/bpJu57Lyb3/

  • inmyslumber

    And I think those Drowning Pool rumors simply came about because he toured with them last summer.

  • Incipit

    Yeah, DC said he had seven songs, but he was looking to have twelve….I know because I had been wondering if he would maybe consider an EP…and that sure didn’t sound like it. He’s been talking about the songs right along – and writing for other artists too, but especially the pocket of Holy Hell Songs – one of which was “Laying Me Low” – and another was a song written with Skib, “the “heaviest” & “darkest” @thedavidcook demo I think we’ve ever done”.

    Certainly he’s been discussing his career and his music…even gave us a look at the cut he placed with David Nail – he and Andy sang it on 5/29 at the Okies and Friends Singer/Songwriter Benefit.

  • irockhard

    durbinrock
    Theres gonna be some real Trippy, different, radio material on this record. I hope everyone’s ready. Seriously

  • irockhard

    Nope he never named the band he only said that he didn’t like their music. And I can’t wait to hear me some “different, trippy radio material”!

  • wordnerdarchie

    Psst. EIGHT.

  • justmefornow

    I think radio itself is ready for some “different, trippy, new rock material”, lol.
    Please, NO MORE BANJOS!!!

  • Stooch

    I’m a big fan of “tripy” :)

  • irockhard

    Me too! O/

  • Stooch

    or “paint by the numbers” rock music

  • escape

    The Verve/David Foster deal is American Idol all over again. Just further indication that’s the perception of David Cook in the industry. Ryan Seacrest was right when he said that David Cook was one of the best grace the AI stage. But he was never able to break away from image; IMO as to why he took such a nose dive with his 2nd album. Then there’s Lee Dewyze, who was tagged the Idol joke, but it didn’t take him long to sign with Vanguard which is the perfect fit for his genre.

  • Incipit

    Right, he added one since the last interview. Eight!

  • irockhard

    or New Wave!

  • Disraeli99

    “Over the last several years, the adult contemporary music market has
    grown dramatically with increasing sales and a nationwide radio audience
    that has swelled to over 70 million, with Mr. Foster being a key driver
    of that growth.”

    *shudders* The thought of Cook hooking up with Foster and officially moving from rock guy to adult contemporary artist guy would be sad. Surely there are other more IMO suitable labels for him. David Foster is too treacly pop for me. David may be alot of things… don’t think an AC artist suits him.

  • Q_3

    Elvis Costello is one of my favorite artists. He had a 1 album deal with Verve Forecast (the non-jazz part of Verve) in 2006 (The River in Reverse). His last 3 albums were not with Verve. The last 2 albums, including his latest, National Ransom was with Hear Music — which is Starbucks; label, distributed by UMG.

    Verve Records is primarily a place for standards artists and home to a big catelog of great jazz recordings. I really think Cook is not ready for this old age home. Andrea Bocelli is their biggest active artist by far.

  • H.A.

    Who would have thought David would be the Idol to head to AC. He’s a smart guy but I think he lacks a lot of ambition.

  • Disraeli99

    **double shudders**

  • Q_3

    DC’s radio hits have been Adult Pop (which is a large part of what HAC stations play). Not loving this news but it is better than having another artist go “country”.

  • Matty Minkus

    He’s so bland. He’ll fit right in with David Foster’s style of music and brand of artist. Sign that deal, there might not be another one coming.

  • irockhard
  • Matty Minkus

    What other labels have made him offers?

  • tierbee

    Um, well, I freaking *loathe* Hinder. And as always with Mr. Cook, label/music-wise I’ll just wait and see. And wait… and wait… ;)

  • H.A.

    It must be true. He should take the deal. The music industry is tough out there. Maybe Foster can get him a PBS special. He should try to expand his options.

  • suenigma

    I still say if Verve was good enough for Elvis, Queen Lalifah, Leon Redbone, etc. then it is good enough for Cook. There are many interesting and talented musicians who have or are releasing under Verve. They may not be Rock, and they may not be the top selling artists in the World, but I am more interested in the caliber of music they put out.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    PBS? I would be surprised if the PBS demographic had a significant overlap with the people who would like Cook’s music.

  • H.A.

    Queen Latifah also sings standards. She’s excellent at it too. Her album is amazing so I can see Verve working for her.

  • irockhard

    moved

  • H.A.

    His fanbase fits that demo though.

  • H.A.

    wrong thread.

  • irockhard

    Oh crap, lemme move it.

    ETA: done

  • Disraeli99

    LOL. Sad, but true. He deserves better than what I think Foster would do to him. Didn’t he do some gigs with Foster last year singing some old Chicago songs? Foster may have been “grooming” him then for all we know.

  • H.A.

    Like they say you’re only as good as your last hit. Radio is going to be tough.

  • suenigma

    Although I’d love to see his demo diversify, this statement may be accurate. Doesn’t hurt my butt to admit it. :)

  • Incipit

    “It must be true.”

    *chuckle* It’s nothing but a reprint of THR story – no quotes or facts added to the speculation that would make it true. The source is still only identified as “a source”. It still says “A rep for Cook did not respond to THR’s request for comment.”

    What convinced you, Disraeli99?

  • H.A.

    He needs to go International ;) More money too.

  • Disraeli99

    I was responding to H.A.’s comment about the PBS demographic and Cook’s fanbase being more similar than not. The comments somehow got out of sync.

  • Karen C

    Not really.

  • Karen C

    He is very popular in Asia, especially Indonesia and the Phillipines. Laying me Low has gotten some airplay there too.

  • H.A.

    I think moreso than recent Idols. He’s been to inactive to pick up ANY fans. He’s only got AI fans.
    He should not worry about radio, go International for a year, soak up the energy of the younger fans, make boatloads of money where he can reinvest in himself. The international gigs are the best.

  • Incipit

    suenigma, I think Foster is icky. IDK anything about Verve. I see they have Jazz and AC artists, which is cool. But I do like Elvis Costello, and Leon Redbone, and I love Diana Krall. Jazz is not ‘old age’ IMO. I like CaseyA and Haley from Idol, they fit nicely with other jazz artists I own. But I also like Neil Zaza and Paul Oakenfold and Yoko Kanno and the Seatbelts. For starters. I’m damn sure they aren’t gonna fit under the same label.

    I like a lot of different music – and if DC self defines as Pop Rock, which he does – then ultimately it’s up to him where he wants to sign. I just buy the music, and hope for an uninterrupted supply. Heh.

  • Mel432

    I keep hearing Cook is really popular in Asia. Where has he had concerts?

  • H.A.

    I always pegged Lee as the comback kid. He didn’t get squat to even say he fell on his face. It was like he never happened so he really never pick up lot of baggage other than the worst season ever. He got to pick himself up hustling his ass while everyone was laughing at him. Whatever he managed to get was from little help from Idol/RCA/19.

  • Sassycatz

    Mostly in Indonesia and the Phiippines, although I think he’d attract a big audience in Japan and China, proper, if they’d do the groundwork. We hear a lot from them.

  • Incipit

    Concerts? Last year – Two in the Philippines, Manila and Cebu – – one in Singapore, and one in Jakarta, Indonesia.

  • Matty Minkus

    Doesn’t Durbin keep in touch with his fans through twitter though? He seems to tweet info and gratitude to the fans a lot. I think he likes that communication.

    Cook doesn’t seem like he’s ever been fond of twitter, more like a chore for him.

  • H.A.

    Cook had a concert in China?

  • irockhard

    Well he just had a twitter party like just now LOL. Yes James likes to use twitter, facebook and instagram a lot, we’d like more than we usually get though LOL.

  • Sassycatz

    No, he’s had concerts in Indonesia and the Philippines.

  • roaringpen

    He used to. But he has been mia for awhile. We are starting to see a little more now that he is back in the studio.

  • suenigma

    And Vietnam too, or was that the year before?

  • iluvai

    I have no idea who Hinder is. But I like both of these guys so I’ll be happy if something good happens to either of them.

  • Mel432

    In some past history posting, I understood it to sound like Cook was the most popular idol in Asia. It doesn’t sound like he’s had that many concerts in many Asian countries. Even Kris has had concerts there, and I never hear his fans saying he’s that popular there. (I believe he is somewhat popular, but certainly not THE most popular.)

  • Incipit

    “He’ll fit right in with David Foster’s style of music.”

    *snicker* He just has to remember to stop singing those covers, one or two per show – – Led Zeppelin, Van Halen and Whitesnake – knock it off with “Man in the Box” – no more Alice in Chains, certainly stop doing “The Dogman” and forget the Muse, RadioHead or Temple of the Dog. And really, Nine Inch Nails?

    Because otherwise it’s all good – One could almost, practically waltz to “Bar ba Sol”,”Goodbye to the Girl” is all Sweetness and Light, well except for the implied suicide, and of course, “Permanent” – that’s such a bland song – no one is ever affected by listening to those lyrics. OMG.

    Nope. I can’t do it with a straight face. I didn’t even get to “Circadian/REM.”

    Bwahahaha – “He’s so bland”!!!!

  • Incipit

    Yes, that was 2011. And the Killa in Manila with Archie was in 2009.

  • Disraeli99

    Asia is getting to be like the old ‘chitlin’ circuit for Idols… can’t buy a hit on American radio? Billboard and Soundscan won’t take your calls? Need cash fast to finance that album? When the US charts won’t give ya the time of day, come on dowwwwwnnnn!! :)

    *tongue inserted firmly in cheek for the humor challenged*

  • Ronnie D

    I don’t see how it could hurt. It’s not like Cooks career is really going anywhere. I hardly ever hear about or read anything about him. I’m still sort of surprised people take James seriously. lol

  • Q_3

    Chicago is usually classified as soft rock/jazz fusion.

    David Foster produced Chicago 16, 17 and 18 in 1982 – 1986.. Not really relevant to anything happening now. But they were commercially successful.

  • suenigma

    What? I don’t think that anyone, anywhere, ever has said that Cook is the most popular idol in Asia. That’s would be silly. Elliot, David Archuleta and Adam, among others, are CLEARLY more popular there. Perhaps you are confusing the two David’s fanbases – David A is arguably the most popular, or was at one time. Do you have a link?

  • sabbia

    Interesting and different “new” rock material coming from HAC stations?? Hmm….I’d be very surprised.

  • suenigma

    I’m not going to disagree with you on this one my friend. And more power to them, I say.

  • Sassycatz

    I’m not exactly someone who supports this behind the scenes career, but just to let you. Just because you don’t hear anything doesn’t mean things aren’t happening. Apparently, he wants to be a writer more than a performer, so that’s where Cooks emphasis is. That’s not a public role.

  • Q_3

    Hinder is at a dead end. They were big in 2005-8 but could not stay relevant. I think both Cook and James should pass on anything with them.

    Anyway the are not much without Austin JMHO and I admit I am not a fan.

  • irockhard

    Yeah that one caught me off guard, but I think we should take that discussion to the Headlines thread: http://mjsbigblog.staging.wpengine.com/idol-headlines-for-71113.htm

  • Miss Blue

    I don’t think he lacks ambition at all. I think it’s more a case of knowing what’s really important in life.

    The kid has it good. He’s got a few bucks, plays the music he likes, does his charity events, is making a living doing what he loves without drama or politics.

    After losing his brother, I think he wants the time to spend on what’s important, and realizes spending 20 hours a day making money is not it.

  • suenigma

    Thanks for that bit of perspective Miss Blue. Well said.

  • justmefornow

    LOL. I actually get where you’re coming from here, there are some other ex-idols I find kinda ridiculous and are surprised people take serious as well.
    To each their own, I guess.

  • justmefornow

    Yeah, I’m really curious about that lead single. Please, not another LMB. Anything but that, lol.

  • Mel432

    Elliot is popular in Asia? I don’t even hear about Elliot anywhere, except here once in a while. Of course David A hands down takes The Philippines, along with Jessica Sanchez

  • Incipit

    “The comments somehow got out of order.”

    Ahh, I see. The comments tend to do that…hard to follow without the quote. I guess “it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.” *wink*

  • suenigma

    He was HUGE in Japan at one time. Still very popular. Not something you would probably be aware of if you aren’t a big fan or his, or if you aren’t Japanese. I don’t fit into either of those categories (although I think he is very talented) but I have read posts on MJ’s about it.

  • Mel432

    I think James is cool and a really good rock singer. He seems to have gigs here and there. He has the entire wrestling world backing him, which is not a bad thing.

  • suenigma

    Hahaha. A quick search on MJ’s landed me this article. It’s old, but still proves the point…
    m/elliott-yamin-really-big-in-japan.htm

  • Matty Minkus

    It’s my opinion. Maybe I should have said his OWN music is bland and boring.

  • suenigma

    I think that David A is pretty popular in other pockets of Asia too, including Japan. I hope he gets an opportunity to tour China when he gets back from his mission, just like Adam did, as I think that he would slay it there.

  • girlygirl

    Cook has more than just AI fans. He did a college tour and he toured with Gavin DeGraw. He probably has more male fans than many ex-Idols.

  • Listening

    Hmm I have to disagree w/ you on why his second album took a nose dive. It aint b/c he never broke away from Idol fans it’s b/c he lost his Idol fans. The bulk of his first album sales was probably mostly Idol fans. He went Platinum on the back of his Idol fans if he had still had his Idol fans he would of gone platinum w/ his second album. What I think happened is he waited way too long to put out his second album. I think it was like 2 1/2 years before anything new came out. Most of his Idol fans got tired of waiting and moved on.

    Oh another big cause for the huge decline was the choice of singles they were just wrong he had a lot stronger material. I think they fell in love w/ the thought of of a Ryan Tedder song b/c he’s usually a hit maker and couldn’t look at the song The Last Goodbye w/ an unbiased eye. It just wasn’t strong enough to be the first single off his sophomore album. Then I think they picked Fade into Me which was unexpected and kind of snoozy. It grew on me to the point that I could tolerate it but it was never one of my favorites. I could never understand why they picked it instead of well practically anything else. David had some good stuff on his album but the singles weren’t gonna draw anyone back they were the weakest of the bunch.

  • girlygirl

    Elliott is very popular in Japan. Or at least he used to be.

  • Incipit

    Certainly, Matty Minkus, you could say DC’s own music, instead of his interpretation of covers, there are often two per concert – that’s gotta count towards the whole show. Right? I think it ought.

    I tried to cover some of his OWN music, with mentioning boring “Permanent” and “Goodbye to the Girl” and bland Circadian, and REM – but I just couldn’t keep going. So we’ll agree to disagree, maybe…because I have no idea how many of DC’s shows you have been to, or what songs in his catalog you are familiar with. And there’s a helluva lot of them.

  • girlygirl

    Archie’s int’l popularity seems to be mainly in the Idol strongholds of the Phillipines, Malaysia and Indonesia.

  • Matty Minkus

    Let me reiterate. I find him boring and bland. I don’t need to be convinced, I have my opinion based on what I’ve seen and heard over the years. As far as his covers, I’ve seen them posted here and I don’t feel he brings anything that interests me to them.

  • Mel432

    Just anyone can’t go to Asia to make a bunch of money. They have to want you there first. Otherwise everyone would go there. Even Lazaro.

  • Mel432

    Kris was/is popular there too. Maybe not to the degree Archie is, particularly the Philippines.

  • Sassycatz

    LOL! Bland?

  • Listening

    If he did front Hinder wouldn’t he have to cut ties w/ his touring band? Andy, Monty, Devin and I forgot the name of the new drummer. I wouldn’t like that I like them as a group.

  • Incipit

    Sure. Agree to disagree. No problem. Well, maybe one tiny little one. Have you ever listened to “Permanent”?

  • Sassycatz

    Nick Adams is his current dummer, although I miss Kyle Peek a great deal. I can’t think of anyone else but Kyle as the definitive Cook drummer.

  • H.A.

    No he does not have more male fans than any ex idol. Kris has more male fans and his base is smaller. That college tour did not help him gain or keep those fans.

  • girlygirl

    Yes, Lee has landed on his feet by landing another label deal, but it doesn’t look like this has resulted in any kind of major promotional push for him. So while it is great that he has more creative control over his career, what about the business end of things? His album comes out next month (last I heard) and I haven’t seen any mention of that fact other than through Lee’s tweets.His single has been out for awhile, but it’s getting minimal radio play. I know he’s going on tour with Serena Ryder, but is his team promoting it other than having him tweet anout it? I know it’s early, but I’m not seeing any signs that this team is doing much more for him now than they did in the past. Am I wrong? I stopped following 19 on twitter awhile back and I’ve never followed Lee (I occasionally will peek at his twitter), so maybe I’m simply missing the promotional stuff they are doing for him?

  • girlygirl

    why? He would have only been filling in for the Hinder frontman — it wouldn’t have been a long-term deal. He could have still toured/worked with his own band when he wasn’t working with Hinder.

  • Incipit

    “Indonesia and the Phillipines. Laying me Low has gotten some airplay there too.”

    There’s no place to collect the intel here – but as of 5/17, thirty stations in Indonesia were playing LML. It’s interesting what happens when a song is allowed to play on its merits and listener interest instead of the Not Payola.

  • suenigma

    Oh, Okay. That’s pretty definitive. LOL

  • girlygirl

    I didn’t say he has more male fans than any ex-Idol, I said he has a diversified fanbbase. Which he does.

  • suenigma

    Yes. Not just the Phillipines.

  • H.A.

    Actually he really don’t. His base is one of the least diversified out of the Idols.

  • H.A.

    You did. You edited it.

  • suenigma

    Based on? Your gut? The multitude of Cook concerts you’ve attended? Your gender breakdown of his twitter followers? Your exit polling of the people who purchased his albums? I am so curious.

  • girlygirl

    No, I think I said “many” of the other Idols, not “any” :)

    Anyway, my point about him having a diversified fanbase still stands

  • H.A.

    I actually follow him, follow fellow cook fans, went to his tour in the past, watch his recent tour on youtube. I do keep up with him and Kris. I just don’t stan them.

  • girlygirl

    Pretty much every Idol and runner up (and even some of the other ex Idols) are very popular in at least some parts of Asia. That’s why so many of them have ended up touring there. A lot of them get solid radio play in places like the Philippines and Indonesia when they can’t get a sniff from US radio.

  • DragonFly

    “I’m still sort of surprised people take James seriously. lol”

    No harm in being SORT OF surprised—- To knock his 1st album is a real jokel. Fans can’t wait for more music! His FB comments are full of fools then too bec they’re always complimenting him. . Someone should warn the co-writers he’s involved with before it’s too late—they should know not to take him seriously also!

    The “only thing” negative about James is his promo s##ks & not getting himself physically out there is ridiculous—& that only, imo may hurt. Hopefully there is some decent push that can get that going on for him again. His only problem is quite common among Idols–getting his music out there. He’s great! Lots of people know to take him seriously.

  • H.A.

    You don’t have to produce them I see them for myself. I’m not saying they are non existence but his female fans way outnumber his male and teen fans and this is something that is always discuss with the fans. Last week at his radio show the usual suspects showed up, .

  • dabney_c

    “fall in Brove” – hahaha. And then Michael Johns will join Cook and Buble, and they’ll have sleepovers, braid each other’s hair, and talk about boys. ;D

  • H.A.

    Archie isn’t popular in China to have him tour there. Sony International handled Adam’s China tour. Sony International also handled Archie’s Asia tour.

  • DragonFly

    “It’s interesting what happens when a song is allowed to play on its merits and listener interest instead of the Not Payola.”

    I’ll borrow from this comment re. DCook bec we’ve noted it many times before for all/most of Them— AGAIN fans don’t need to defend their Idols’ accomplishments or the (looks like) lack of them unless circumstances change that they would ever be ALLOWED to be heard on the proper airwaves in the U.S. to get an honest reaction to their music It’s repeated over & over that it’s a tough mkt to break into. To knock any of these people talentwise is not where it’s at for me anyway. Easy to criticize.

  • suenigma

    I think that with similar promotional opportunities, Archie could also be very popular in China. JMO, you may disagree.

  • suenigma

    Which is amusing, because I am a huge Cook fan, follow his twitter and website, follow his tour/shows (if not in person, sadly), etc. and I would not presume to have an accurate or absolute picture of his fandom. I really do not think that the gender/age mix is really so different from other male idols, but whatever, you intel is obviously superior to mine. :)

  • Karen C

    I think he’lll tour when the album comes out.

  • Karen C

    A lot of his fans never watched AI before David was on, or since. Also, there are some that never even saw him on AI, they became fans when the first album came out. He picked up a lot of fans during the first tour.

  • suenigma

    Good point Dragonfly. Honestly, most of the top 10 of almost any season of Idol are pretty talented, and are deserving of any success that they might be able to attain….and underserving of scorn for their attempts at making a living in a notoriously cruel industry.

    To paraphrase David Hodges, if we don’t support the people who make the music, eventually there won’t be any music; good, bad or transcendent.

  • Karen C

    I actually think the opposite. His biggest hit from his post idol music was Light On, which was more alternative rock, of a similar type like he did on the show. After that, the singles released weren’t alternative rock, even though there were some songs on his albums that were. I think fans who liked him from Idol actually liked that he did alternative rock, and that’s why Light On and the first album did so well.
    The problem was that TOML did well too, and that’s what the push from the label was.

  • H.A.

    I think Archie can be marketable in China. They would love him but it takes years and lots of government red tapes to go through to market an American artist. Fans do all the work in promoting the artist. It really isn’t that simple.

  • jpfan2

    It’s about the music they put out. If the songs don’t excite a lot of people the career will plateau. I hope Cook signs with Verve because he needs a proper label. I don’t follow Cook but he should still have some of his big fan base from Idol left. They deserve some new music.

  • suenigma

    I don’t think that it is a simple or an easy prospect, rather I think that it could be a successful and lucrative one.

  • suenigma

    I think that Dragonfly was extrapolating that comment to refer to someone’s else’s comment about James being a joke, and that is what I was responding to with my comment, not Cook. I don’t always like or connect with an artist’s music, but I always respect the artist and their process. It take’s balls of steel to be a working musician/singer these days. KWIM?

    But I don’t disagree with your comment either. :)

  • Karen C

    Never said he was the most popular but he is popular, especially in Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Phillipines. Quite a few songs from both albums were released and got played on the radio. When he did tour there, he did some meet and greet which hundreds of fans showed up. One was at a mall and it looked like it was filled. This was just last year.

  • DragonFly

    post was about:

    Most Idols (not just James the subject) shouldn’t need defending —they’ve already rec’d. acknowledgement of their talent on Idol & since.

    When evidences are constantly being brought of crowds whistling, arms/horns in the air, good times, screams & applause for them–there’s more (imo) to criticisms against them. Videos don’t lie–what’s to defend anymore??. Criticizing them & their fans who like them??? Allowed, but old.

  • DragonFly

    I did agree w/the quoted statement I used that Idols music (not just an individual Idol) not getting enough U.S. airplay TO the public to determine the public’s real liking or disliking their music. It’s the PROBLEM for most of them…. & I think they constantly take too much heat for it.

  • springboard2

    I don’t agree. I think that most Idol alums are good singers, but OK artists, and they are mostly totally overrated by Idol fans.

    This is why they only make it on the back of the show and sink afterwards.

    Cook is a good singer with a good voice but I am still waiting for him to release decent music, even since he has had the freedom to be himself.
    Good for him if he still has enough fans to support a career in music, but if not then he has to be realistic.

    I feel sorry for alums who have been made to believe that they are better than they really are and have to readjust but I don’t believe that they are any more deserving that the thousands of just as, or more, talented musicians who haven’t gone through Idol.

  • Emmy

    Seriously? They’d take Cook or Durbin? They don’t seem very picky.

  • irockhard

    LOL, even Cook and Durbin are out of their league. Seriously, Hinder is a really sh!tty Nickleback knock off.

  • wordnerdarchie

    I’m just happy there’s any press at all. With Broken Record’s Mag mentioning that David’s interview is coming up in next issue, coupled with the Hinder/Verve news (old) and DC’s tweet a few hours later about gasoline, let’s “start the show”. ;)

  • MissMyEm

    I hope David takes a lot into consideration before signing with Verve if David Foster is behind it. I don’t think Foster is the big deal he used to be. He’s way behind the times. As soon as Clay signed with him, his musical career changed for the worst, in my opinion. Ruben, Kat, Michael…not exactly making hit records.

  • MissMyEm

    I don’t know how anyone would know who gained fans and who did not.

  • irockhard

    @DurbinRock Hinder??????— Scott (@wehoscott) July 12, 2013

    @wehoscott Im happily recording my new record. Ive got my own dreams ahead of me :)— James Durbin (@DurbinRock) July 12, 2013

  • usedtobelucy

    Well, “adult contemporary” has always been Foster’s main thing, hasn’t it? That hasn’t been Verve’s main thing, traditionally, but when they brought him on they were bringing on somebody whose whole specialty has pretty much been adult contemporary, as far as I know. And AC has always had the soft-rock component. And as new generations take over the whole of the adult population, I wouldn’t be surprised if a rock component again becomes a bigger focus in AC.

    Here’s a Billboard piece from when he took over, and they’re really stressing his “adult music” orientation, so the jazz-folk emphasis seems not to be the whole of the Verve story going forward:

    ‘Foster, based in Los Angeles, will lead the creative operations of Verve, with a focus on identifying new talent and further developing UMG’s roster of adult music and pop artists, according to a press release. The release goes on to note that “Over the last several years, the adult contemporary music market has grown dramatically with increasing sales and a nationwide radio audience that has swelled to over 70 million, with Mr. Foster being a key driver of that growth.”‘

    http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/1157735/its-official-david-foster-named-chairman-of-verve-music-group

    Would love to see DC have a good label home. I can see Foster loving his voice, but otherwise it seems a little iffish. Hope it’s not, though.

  • Sassycatz

    David’s done this. Not too long ago as a matter of fact. His music does get radio play in Asia.

  • BonnieDee

    Well, David’s net worth is $5 million, according to celebritynetworth.com, so at least he is making a very good living doing what he loves. It’s not superstardom, but it’s better than working 9 to 5 in an office job for 50 thousand a year.

  • Incipit

    “With Broken Record’s Mag mentioning that David’s interview is coming up in next issue, coupled with the Hinder/Verve news (old) and DC’s tweet a few hours later about gasoline, let’s “start the show”. ;)”

    I have high hopes for that magazine story to have some answers, wordnerdarchie. It’s a four-page spread, and they have been teasing it since May 17th – putting out the Title Page last month. Now the editor, Scott Vollweiler, says pdf files of the whole story will be available this weekend – on sale next week.

    The tweet with the gasoline pump screen was a heads up for the Lyric phrase, I agree…so….

  • wordnerdarchie

    Oh, as an afterthought, there was a mention earlier in this thread about his last radio show & the “usual suspects” showing up. I laughed, because my twitter timeline said just the opposite – that there were so few people there (based on the pictures, tweets & vids) that any of us knew, other than a couple (I could count on one hand) of Kansas City based fans that were fortunate to win tickets. We all thought how nice it was for him to see all those new faces. There was a very nice mix at that appearance – men, women, & teens. He sort of acknowledged that by elaborating on a lot of background information (that most regular fans already knew) during the question segments of the show. The “usual suspects” that travel were not there, lol.

  • Bazballe

    Hinder and David Cook. Lol! I can’t believe they’d seriously consider that pairing unless the entire band needs rehab badly. David Cook is the Vanilla Ice of the rock world.
    I’ve been out of touch. I didn’t realize Cook got dumped by his label. When did that happen? He seems to have disappeared off the face of the planet. I kind of called it when he won Idol. He doesn’t have the personality to make it big on his own. He needs to find some low key AC band somewhere and join it. His name does not sell music.

    Durbin would be more of a match for Hinder.

  • Incipit

    “The “usual suspects” that travel were not there, lol.”

    I noticed that, wordnerdarchie – but tickets had to be won, and it was limited to people who lived in Kansas and Missouri – so for a while I wasn’t sure any of the DCO members would get in. I think there were 3 or maybe 4 in the room? Heh. Enough to give us a report, anyway – the rest of the fans were certainly NOT the Usual Suspects.

    IDK how anyone could tell if there were DCO members from a picture unless they knew all the people in question, and there were plenty of whole families posing w/DC, as the station’s web page photos made clear. Or is “Usual Suspects” supposed to be just a codeword for female? Ha. ha. ha. Busted.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Really? I don’t follow Cook at all, so I have no clue what the demo of his fan base is.

  • Incipit

    You ‘have’ been very out of touch, with mj’s, Bazballe, since May 2012? There was plenty of coverage here – click on the Drop-Down Contestant menu in the header and go to David Cook if you want to quickly access and/or overview the stories and comments.

    It’s all good – Hinder has coverage for their gigs while Winkler is in rehab this time, “Jared Weeks from Saving Abel will fill in, occasionally switching off with Marshal Dutton from Drankmore, who co-produced Hinder’s latest album…” but as mj points out – ever since July of 2008 they have been interested in working with DC – (see the linked story, “We’ll Write With You”) so I’m really not surprised to read they were also interested in his availability for this sudden situation.

  • jayidrocks

    I think Cook would fit better than Durbin, voice and style wise. Durbin tends also more in the Hard rock direction.

  • escape

    That’s always been the mentality with Idol. it’s always someone’s else’s fault. A snowflake is not getting enough promotion, their label picked the wrong song, radio is being unfair, etc3. When in reality, the snowflake isn’t at that. Just because someone is good at singing covers each week doesn’t mean they can successfully pitch their own music

  • Sassycatz

    The commercial music business is pretty collaborative. Not many people do things on their own or have the freedom to do so.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “As soon as Clay signed with him, his musical career changed for the worst, in my opinion.”

    Clay has never been signed by Foster.

  • Chicagolaw

    Glad the Hinder stuff never came to be. And, seriously, Hinder is not a group that I think DC would connect with at all.
    Don’t know what to think of the label thing. Doesn’t seem like it would be a good fit (but maybe that’s just the whole David Foster thing). I do think DC will find a label, it’s just a matter of time. He is talented and sticking with it. A label deal of some sort will come.

  • Bazballe

    I’ve been out of touch on Idol since 2010 never mind 2012. I stopped following the behind the scene stuff due to frequent traveling. I do know who was in each season just not familiar with the behind the scene intrigue that goes on like. But I am familiar I’m kind of surprised but not surprised by the drop of Cook. Winning American Idol has proven to not guarantee a road to success.

  • Karen C

    He definately can do rock. Some of his songs and covers are very much rock, and his concerts are mostly rock too, and he did rock for years with Axium. And his tours did very well.

  • iani

    David’s tweet with the gasoline pump screen was a heads up for the Lyric phrase

    I don’t know anything about the Verve label but maybe it is much better business wise than a phony “XIX” label tag. Just hope if LML is the official single for the new album, that supposedly comes in November, the song to get an official radio-add date. I see on charts now artists on small labels that get radio-plays on Pop and HAC 2 years apart from the official release(initial format and charting on Alt), just hope to see him getting some radio attention.

    As for the Hinder refusal, I think it would have been a great experience for him to do some tour dates and see the people’s reaction, some “new ears” hearing his voice and then maybe checking for more of his music but I understand he really is busy now even though he says so little about his business.

    Isn’t it great idols being asked by rock bands to fill in for lead singers and getting some media attention? Thinking of “idol-rock” was never a friendly combination from PD’s POV or mainstream media/s one.

  • Tinawina

    I hate HInder AND David Foster so I’m gonna need Cookie to decline both offers. My personal comfort level is of paramount concern here. Heh.

  • Incipit

    I am unfamiliar with Verve too, iani; some posters have brought interesting press releases and if any of the intel is sincere, it looks like this Label is expanding and repositioning in the market. Another ‘wait and see’ situation to keep tabs on, I suppose?

    The Hinder story as it connects to David and James Durbin, and the 2008 offer from the band to write with David has a little more back story, I think. They are out of Oklahoma, and after college DC was working out of Tulsa, OK – it is not a stretch to think Hinder knew of MWK and DC before Idol, if they were into the Tulsa music scene, which was not small. Also Axium and MWK did a lot of regional touring – they could have played the same venue at one time. Not impossible – Axium, DC’s original band, shared a bill with Maroon 5 before he was ever on Idol.

    It ‘is’ a nice thing to see idols being asked by rock bands to fill in for lead singers and getting some media attention – even if I don’t think David or James would have been a fit for Hinder…and I’m really glad to read they solved their dilemma of a front man for the tour gigs while Winkler is in rehab.

    Tell the truth – it wouldn’t have been a big deal, IMO – if DC or James had pitched in to help them out for a few gigs – just a kind thing to do – although I could see it getting all misread. But both guys were busy, and Hinder got some artists in their specific niche – so the point is moot.

  • pj

    Forgive me for not reading all the comments, but I thought Verve was a Jazz label.

  • pj

    Haha. I don’t like Hinder, but Verve put out some pretty good jazz remix albums if it’s the same Verve. I have one of them, but I think there are lots.

  • Sassycatz

    Damn it! Please stop being reasonable! ;-P

  • irockhard

    Commercial success is dependent on luck, timing and circumstance much more than talent and hard work. The stars must align for you, that’s what it boils down to. But if they don’t that doesn’t mean you should give up, Katy Perry and Lady Gaga didn’t.

  • Incipit

    “Damn it! Please stop being reasonable! ;-P”

    *Chuckle* – OK, Sassycatz – I’ll work on that!

  • Sassycatz

    I just saw “20 Feet From Stardom” last week and this is one of the points that came up, more than once. It was almost verbatim to what Sting said when they were interviewing him in the documentary.

  • irockhard

    It is, they have mostly Jazz and AC artists.

  • Tinawina

    I would be willing to put up with the asshatery of David Foster if Cookie was Jazz. I’d do it for Haley for instance. But for a pop/rock guy? I don’t want to be bothered reading his name. LOL

    Of course I am being tongue in cheek right now, but I’m only half kidding. Sorta.

  • Happyhexer

    Well, I’m not sure I want to see David Cook with *more* creative control, based on what he produced with his second album. My understanding is he had a fair amount of control, coming off a successful first album. I find it difficult to believe that RCA — not my favorite label — wanted that dreck. Yes, musical tastes differ and I am certain that there are many fans who thoroughly enjoy TLM. But in an era where there no longer are music stores to browse, so that you mostly need to have the name of an artist or song/CD in mind when you buy from iTunes/Amazon or the very few selections available at Best Buy/Target/Wal-Mart, radio has become increasingly important as, at the same time, it has becoming narrower in the range of music it plays and more difficult to crack. (Maybe the Internet or non-terrestrial radio can substitute, but I don’t think we’re there yet.) So it is important to have songs that are accessible and radio-friendly. Many DavidC fans blame the sales disparity between the two CDs on the two-and-a-half year delay between projects, but there is a simpler explanation — many fans (whether they were Idol fans or fans DavidC picked up outside the bubble in the interim) didn’t buy the album because they didn’t like it. It could be that simple.

    Carrie Underwood has said that she always imagines how a song will sound on the radio before she decides whether to include it on an album. Likewise, The Band Perry has stated that no song will make it onto an album unless all three band members agree unanimously. Not that everything has to sound like a radio single, but the era of putting a few good songs plus a lot of filler on a CD is pretty much over.

    And since I am being super-candid today, might as well rile up another fanbase by saying that I think Kris Allen had the opposite problem. I think some of the fans that bought his first album (automatically, because they were fans) were disappointed in it and didn’t stick around for the second. Which is a shame, because TYC is quite good and many of the fans who defected might have enjoyed it.

    *ducks and covers*

    (P.S.) Let me be clear. I like both David Cook and Kris Allen. I think both men are very talented. I would like to see both signed and putting out new music that I can buy. But, I will only buy it if I like it. I do like what I’ve seen of Kris lately. I think he’s on the right path. And if “Laying Me Low” is an example of DavidC’s direction, then I think he might be on the right path as well.

  • DragonFly

    I’m assuming there are particular snowflakes from Idol most people here follow–kind’a why we’re here. If some agree with:

    “I feel sorry for alums who have been made to believe that they are better than they really are and have to readjust but I don’t believe that they are any more deserving that the thousands of just as, or more, talented musicians who haven’t gone through Idol.”…..

    …THEN let’s all just throw in that towel as soon as the show is over (lol). Good grief—this is an Idol blog! If we wanted to follow the

    “….thousands of just as, or more, talented musicians who haven’t gone through Idol.” …..

    …..THEN we’d be “right on that” & be a part of (their non-Idol) trials & tribulations hoping for their successes, & not be here. Fans watched the shows, liked what we saw in one or more of them—-we follow & keep hoping something good happens. I again would assume most people have someone here they back—yes?? & they are truly an Idol snowflake they’ve invested in also??

    I’ve been doing radio surveys & besides many of the established artists’s song I don’t agree with being good, they often send new artist’s music to yay or nay, & believe me it ain’t pretty & Idols here surpass them. I can be honest & critical of snowflakes here & many of them deserve our time & backing imo..

  • iani

    “it looks like this Label is expanding and repositioning in the market. Another ‘wait and see’ situation to keep tabs on

    Some posters say Verve is mostly jazz and AC orientated, that is OK for me so far. It seems to me DC is preparing/smoothing his path to a longer, less visible publicly, family friendly(for himself) career, songwriting, doing well paid gigs with not too far away for from home and for a long period of time as an act touring regularly…

  • DragonFly

    “And if “Laying Me Low” is an example of DavidC’s direction, then I think he might be on the right path as well.”

    Giving that an “up arrow” here in agreement. The rest of the info their fans can handle. Like it!

  • Incipit

    “…seems to me DC is preparing/smoothing his path to a longer, less visible publicly, family friendly(for himself) career, songwriting, doing well paid gigs with not too far away for from home and for a long period of time as an act touring regularly…”

    It could be so, iani…I really think we will get some idea of DC’s direction very shortly – but much of what you propose sounds very ‘reasonable’ – *wink* and a very balanced approach to the Music Industry Madness.

    I wouldn’t bet against it, but I hedge my bets, and DC has also had that element of WTF!Cook, where he will take a chance with long odds to try for a good return… So who knows?

  • Sassycatz

    I didn’t like everything on David’s second album, especially The Last Goodbye, which RCA apparently pushed because it was — in their opinion — the best radio tune. However, I liked a majority of the rest of the album, so I’m not one that thinks that the whole thing was “dreck.” The fact that you point to Carrie’s method as an example of what DC should be doing tells me that we’d have a whole album of generic songs like The Last Goodbye. Probably why I’m not a fan of hers or today’s network, mainstream radio.

  • Beaugard Stevens

    Nothing is going to help David Cook until he realizes he needs better songs than what he has been writing.

  • Rogue1717

    sorry but the band needs to hold off on touring until the lead singer gets his act together. People pay for the voice. Not to see the band fronted by random people.

  • Incipit

    “I’ve been doing radio surveys… I can be honest & critical of snowflakes here & many of them deserve our time & backing imo..”

    DragonFly, I have read other people say much the same thing – especially after a saturation in the new music from surveys, but many are also musicians in other arenas who have a standard criteria for music composition, or different levels of musicianship, or vocal abilities and technical skills.

    Coming from those mind sets – they only stick around this particular arena ‘because’ many of the contestants merit their time and backing, and they’ve already been winnowed out of the countless hopefuls.

    So yes, ITA – and I’m not shy about that agreement!

    Bless you for doing the survey thing, BTW – I’m lacking the determination to go through that..I tried.

  • Sassycatz

    Better songs! Oh-h-h! *knocks head* Why didn’t I think of that?! ;-)

    Of course, there’s an assumption there that the only reason songs are on the radio or certain artists get airplay is solely because their songs are qualitatively better…. Not always the case.

  • bridgette12

    I think Cook just need some better music to sing. He has a wonderful voice his first album showed promise. It’s the second one that did him in, it was all kinds of bland, it lacked passion and fire. As for James, he really hasn’t made any kind of impact in his genre and haven’t had a hit song yet. He don’t have his own sound and it’s hard to be considered legit when your copying other people in rock music.

  • irockhard

    The last time I saw James being accused of being a “poser” or “copying other people in rock music” was when he was on Idol and those accusations were coming almost exclusively from rival Idol fans.

  • bridgette12

    I’ve seen Durbin fans say he needs to find his own sound if he going to get some rock cred and unless he has a hit song, how is that going to happen. It’s hard to get respect, when no one knows you exist. Do he get invited to any rock festivals, do he travel outside the US to the big rock festivals in Europe? Is he touring with big rock acts or is floundering and opening for nobodies.

  • elliegrll

    I’m not crazy about all of David’s songs, and some do sound a little dated, but I’ve always thought that his biggest obstacle is that more than anyone else the AI stigma is not going to help him connect with his AI audience.

    Some people are angry with David for not touring more, and for what they see as David not valuing his AI fans, but I believe that he knows that he’s not going to get anywhere performing for people who would rather hear him perform covers or the songs that he did while he was on the show. Even the alums who don’t fall under the label of indie rock look pathetic trying to pander to their remaining AI fans. It’s not something that will advance their careers, even if the fans enjoy hearing the songs.

  • irockhard

    I’ve seen Durbin fans say he needs to find his own sound if he going to get some rock cred

    No one said gaining cred is the reason why he needs his own distinct sound. Bands that create generic and uninspiring music get recognition too.

    and unless he has a hit song, how is that going to happen.

    Anyone that thinks “hit song” = “rock cred” knows nothing about how rock really works.

    It’s hard to get respect, when no one knows you exist.

    ROTFLMFAO

    Do he get invited to any rock festivals, do he travel outside the US to the big rock festivals in Europe? Is he touring with big rock acts or is floundering and opening for nobodies.

    He’s not touring right now cause he’s recording right now. How about he create music to introduce to these crowds first?

    Jeez he’s only had 4 months full time touring under his belt. Seriously, Idol fans have extremely unrealistic expectations of new rock artists. Let me quote AC/DC: “It’s a long way to the top if you wanna rock n roll.” There is absolutely no pressure for James to achieve all that RIGHT NOW.

  • bridgette12

    Considering the type of music he puts out, I don’t think there are going to be many expectations. He will put an album out, get little or no radio play and he will tour with bigger acts, like buck cherry again and do one offs. Again, it’s a living and makes the best of his situation.

  • irockhard

    I’m not gonna think about expectations until I hear the music. I can’t predict anything until I do cause I have no idea what album #2 is gonna sound like.

    Oh and BTW even the top played bands on rock radio often don’t headline or at most co-headline with one or more other bands. Eg: Halestorm and they’ve had multiple hits and even won a Grammy.

  • standtotheright

    Any artist whose primary airplay is on HAC, and whether or not one agrees with that format positioning, them’s the facts about Cook’s prior airplay, is going to have more fans in the 25-45 female bracket than in the 13-24 female bracket or the 18-45 male bracket because *that’s the target demo for HAC.*
    In my particular metro area, where the rock station DJs are perhaps even more douchey than the average and the playlist has only recently broken out of “90s-2000s post grunge, 90 percent of the time,” thereby making it a metro area where HAC is presumably more popular with male audiences, I’ve seen plenty of dudes at his shows.

  • Matty Minkus

    Didn’t be just say that he’s going for some different stuff for radio airplay? Doesn’t sound like a hit song. Isn’t his or his labels priority.

    Oh and demos from Rune Westburg and BC Jean don’t scream rock cred, lol.

  • iani

    I think Cook just need some better music to sing. He has a wonderful voice his first album showed promise. It’s the second one that did him in, it was all kinds of bland…

    I’ve seen Durbin fans say he needs to find his own sound if he going to get some rock cred and unless he has a hit song, how is that going to happen.

    I agree with you that DC’s second album was too uni-tone, no rhythm or beat, too moody to engage the audience be happy being there and participate with you for the entertainment factor. Moody music is for small, intimate audience not for GA audience to ask”stand up” for moody, wavey sound.

    Also I think JD’s second album is crucial for him to establish himself as a stronger rock act and make an impact on charts and PDs to get his music. He was working for his “rock creed” pretty much how much he could with MOABD, not enough support from his label and manager though from MPOV. As a new rock act you should stay on the road no matter what, album on or off, stay there on any stage till get the second album, then the third one after that, we’ll see. He has had a fraction of the rock acts standards of touring to get noticed. His kind of rock doesn’t ask for “hits”, it ask for “roads” mostly, the hit is like icing over the cake.

  • sabbia

    What you wrote reminds me (and something I’ve been meaning to ask you)….

    I watched “Searching for Sugar Man” about a month ago and was wondering if Rodriguez was really as big in SA as the film made him out to be. If so, he certainly is a great example of what you posted above.

  • irockhard

    He really is huge here.

  • standtotheright

    I don’t believe that they are any more deserving that the thousands of just as, or more, talented musicians who haven’t gone through Idol.

    I don’t know that anyone is arguing that they are *more* deserving. But IMO, they are generally no less. I listen to a LOT of music. A lot of indie. A lot of mainstream. The vast majority of music that gets a solid commercial release is decent-to-good. The vast majority of music that I’ve heard from AI alumni is decent-to-good. It’s about the gatekeepers (for AI and non-AI artists alike) and will be for some time.

  • Karen C

    The fans that have been to his tours for the most part like his original music. For the most part he doesn’t do the covers he did on Idol, so the majority of fans that have stayed with him like his original music.

  • Karen C

    didn’t buy the album because they didn’t like it. It could be that simple.

    Simpler than that, though, maybe they didn’t like the first single that was released, which didn’t represent the album, and this was likely not his decision.
    And he didn’t have creative control with the second album, he has said he was forced to write songs that were never used that didn’t represent him, and it seems like he had to compromise some to even get songs he did want.
    There are reasons he left RCA having to do with direction and creative control. If Laying Me Low is a better direction for him, we know that’s what he wanted.

  • Stooch

    Totally agree, but you have work hard to hope the stars align for you……….. as they say “If at first you don’t succeed try and try again” :)

  • irockhard

    Didn’t be just say that he’s going for some different stuff for radio airplay?

    He did.

    Doesn’t sound like a hit song.

    I would have to hear it first before I can form an opinion on it WRT to quality and commercial appeal.

    Isn’t his or his labels priority.

    ????

    Oh and demos from Rune Westburg and BC Jean don’t scream rock cred, lol.

    For all we know that’s completely unrelated to the album. He’s written plenty of his own songs, but sure he can take the demos and turn them into whatever he wants. Again I have to hear the songs themselves to form an opinion on them.

  • MissMyEm

    You’re right. I stand corrected. But Foster took Clay under his musical wing and while I feel it was a mutual admiration society…I still say the minute that happened Clay’s music took a turn for the worst. I actually liked “Measure of a Man”. It showed promise.

  • Mateja Praznik

    Actually, I think “The Last Goodbye” was the best single choice RCA could make. While the song is not some special masterpiece and I initially thought RCA made a mistake, I completely changed my mind when the album was released. RCA actually picked the song with the most potential for the radio. When “The Last Goodbye” flopped, it was over. Everything else on the album was just not radio friendly.

    Observing Cook’s and Lambert’s sophomore eras, I think RCA and 19R gave them too much creative freedom from the beginning of the creative process. They probably just didn’t care enough. And when the label was presented with the new material, they were all like “OMG, what are we supposed to release as singles?”

  • Matty Minkus

    It was an extra period. It doesn’t seem like a hit song isn’t his or his labels priority.

    He said demos “submitted”. That most often means they were submitted for his consideration.

  • standtotheright

    Considering the amount of airplay that single got, I think the simplest explanation is this: People didn’t buy the album because they didn’t know it even existed. Would some of those people still not have cared for the album if they’d heard it? Probably. But a mid-summer release with a single that topped out in the 30s wasn’t exactly an opportunity to even give people the option to render judgment.
    My personal opinion is that TLM is neither a trainwreck or a masterpiece; it’s an album that would have been a lot tighter with a 10-song tracklist and some reshuffling but that genuinely had a few that moved me. As a whole, it does more for me than DCTR did.

  • Incipit

    “…demos from Rune Westburg…”

    Really? I had no idea – Rune Westberg? I would very much like to hear that ASAP. Lotta people like his work.

    That dude is multi-talented in the studio, and very, very good at what he does, a Danish singer, songwriter, record producer, engineer and mixer who can play a multitude of instruments and has an interesting POV. He often seems to work in melodic rock by choice, but not exclusively, by any means – and I especially like the tracks he did with DC and CaseyA in 2011 and 2012 – a versatile guy.

    Sorry to go so OT, but if If he does stuff for James that gets used, I wanna know.

    OK, back to the Topic. ;)

  • Happyhexer

    Carrie admittedly is in in a different genre, and I am not her biggest fan, but she pays attention to what works on the radio in her genre. And it works for her.

    For me, the songs on TLM all seem alike musically, lyrically, and vocally — and not in a good way. (Listening to it as a whole makes me feel aurally fatigued.) Obviously, that is an opinion, not a fact (well, the part about me getting a fatigued reaction is fact), and people can disagree with my view of TLM. I did buy “Goodbye to the Girl” and love it, as it showcases DavidC’s lovely voice. And I love “Laying Me Low” and need to get off my butt and buy it.

    I didn’t post to stir the pot for no reason. But sometimes I read the same comments at MJs all the time, and would like fans to think outside the box. Doesn’t mean I’m right; just another perspective.

  • Happyhexer

    Still not convinced. I’m sure DC didn’t have total control. Few artists do (unless perhaps they are megastars). But I find it it exceedingly difficult to believe (even if there was tension & disagreement between DC & RCA) that DC didn’t have creative input. Didn’t he write his songs? No matter what the label wanted, or the selections they made, they didn’t put a gun to DC’s head and force him to write *those* songs.

  • irockhard

    Oh sorry.

    Album sales is the priority, single sales in rock are low even those that are hits. The point of the single in rock is to sell the album. Of course if it the single becomes a hit the album will sell more units but it doesn’t have to in order for them to turn a profit. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try for a hit.

  • standtotheright

    Basically, Halperin is doing her job: She’s giving teeny PR hooks to artists who have given her hits in the past. This hlps ensure that her column continues to have an audience while AI’s ratings decline. This also makes the artists in question look more in demand both while they are negotiating/working on new projects and later when they have completed them and have ACTUAL PR updates to provide. Everybody wins.

  • Incipit

    “…later when they have completed them and have ACTUAL PR updates to provide.”

    Isn’t that the trufax – there could be ACTUAL PR updates about DC’s next album – state of the Label or lack thereof – music direction, etc. None of this is it, but it’s a nice ski ramp, kinda sorta. And everybody wins.

  • irockhard

    Ooo sounds interesting, I’ll keep you posted on this.

  • windmills

    Carrie may think about what would sound good on the radio, but Blown Away and Two Black Cadillacs sounded like nothing on country radio, and especially Blown Away sounded like nothing currently on any genre of radio. Both were risky songs in the mainstream environment, especially Two Black Cadillacs from a lyrical standpoint. Yet both were not only on Carrie’s current album but both became critically acclaimed #1 hits.

    Paying attention to what would sound good on radio doesn’t mean conforming to radio’s trends. The guys on country radio do that but by and large, the women at country radio don’t.

  • Karen C

    Yes, there was creative input, but the best songs on the album that he had the most creative input in weren’t ones used to promote the album. That was a label decision.

  • Karen C

    I agree that radio airplay was part of the problem, and maybe another single would have helped, especially on a different format.
    I do like the majority of the album, and think that certain songs were brilliant and unique, but again that is not what was used to promote it. I too thought parts of it were very moving, and were the best part of the album.

  • Sassycatz

    I’m not quite sure that’s true. Whenever David’s music was criticized for not being radio friendly, the criticism always included the admonition that he should listen to what’s on radio, see what the public is responding to and produce something like it.

    I can’t speak for country radio since I don’t listen to it, but I imagine Carrie has a bit more freedom with her label at her stage than David had at his. I’d bet any amount of money that, if David had had a bit more say, The Last Goodbye would’ve never been the first single off of TLM. In fact, I don’t think it would’ve ever been written as there would not have been a collaboration with Tedder. As diplomatic as he always is, even he let loose a bit and talked about how he was “made” to collaborate with people and write songs that didn’t really represent him. I’m sure a gun wasn’t placed to his head, but I’m sure it was strongly suggested that he try and make it work.

  • sabbia

    It depends on what angle you are coming from. If from a pop or country world, yes, James can’t expect to get much air play (hit or no hit) b/c there aren’t many radio stations in his target format to begin with. ie, HAC or Active Rock.

    Lots of airplay in Active Rock (for instance) = exposure of little magnitude to the outside world.

  • thirdtime

    Never was a big Hinder fan, so I’m glad David and James both turned the offer down. I’m glad to see both being taken so seriously in the rock world though. Good for them, that’s a really hard nut to crack. I’m hoping for great things for both of these guys.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I agree, I liked MOAM also. Actually, I think that it was also the influence of David’s sister, Jaymes (who produced Clay’s 3rd and 4th albums), that did a lot of damage to Clay’s career.

  • irockhard

    Thank you!

  • windmills

    Sassycatz: Whenever David’s music was criticized for not being radio friendly, the criticism always included the admonition that he should listen to what’s on radio, see what the public is responding to and produce something like it.

    Well, I’ve never criticized David Cook’s music for not being radio-friendly (not being radio-friendly isn’t necessarily a bad thing in my book), and one of my criticisms of The Last Goodbye was that it felt like such a labored attempt to fit in on the radio. I remember reading the criticisms you mentioned but I never agreed with them.

    Personally, if I had to guess, I’d guess David listened to too much HAC radio in crafting the radio-targeted songs on TLM, not too little. One big thing I like about The Last Song I’ll Write For You and Laying Me Low from TLM is not that they’re any less mainstream than anything from David’s 2 RCA albums, it’s that for the 1st time since AI, I could hear what David sounds like when he’s not feeling this grim and overwhelming pressure to deliver a hit/success. He flat-out sounded more relaxed, and that’s a good look.

    And that’s why I said back when David announced his move to Nashville that I hoped he would immerse himself in the songwriting community there, build up his profile as a collaborator there, and take his time developing new music for himself. This move is a great opportunity for him to redefine himself without the pressure of having to come up with something that will make that market take notice of him immediately. The important thing now, if he is interested in being mass-marketed again, is to come up with a set of songs that are who he is. That way if a label that would market him does sign him, it will be because of how those songs define who he is and how this newly-defined David can appeal to the market, not because there’s an existing niche in the mainstream market they can possibly shoehorn him into.

    Sounds like David’s on course with his own music. Whether that music is destined for mass marketing because it happens to fit into something that’s going to be a trend on some radio format, who knows? But I think for the position David’s in now, if mass marketing is what he wants, it’s going to be about being just a step or 2 ahead of radio and the mass market, not about fitting into what radio and the mass market already support.

  • iani

    Paying attention to what would sound good on radio doesn’t mean conforming to radio’s trends.

    That should be the A&R person “gift” when they choose the single, to mix the selected song with the actual hits on HAC, Pop or whatever format the are aiming for and see how it works. I remember like 2 years ago we were taking about single-selections, radio plays from 2 to 4 times/h same song, PDs role of psychologically playing with listeners’ minds…

    I share an experience I had like 3 years ago, a silly or even to say “really?!” one but for me was like, “wow” and then I said for myself, “the freaking selection gift”. I was listening to radio on a nice, summer day, about dawn(thinking how DJs play them AM/PM) and it was time amongst other regular hits for a song that I never liked it(the band also), Breakeven by The Script. Man, it was fantastic for me right there for a song I didn’t like it before, it was maybe something about ambiance, flow of the sound, key-words(freedooom), great song for radio. Sorry for this!

  • Incipit

    “…if mass marketing is what he wants, it’s going to be about being just a step or 2 ahead of radio and the mass market, not about fitting into what radio and the mass market already support.”

    Absolutely right on that, I think, and being a first adopter is much more his style – it goes with taking big chances that can result in big rewards…and then upping the danger level exponentially…his AI modus operandi.

    I often thought about where did that WTF!Cook attitude on Idol come from – and then I listened to “Feed Your Ego”, a song DC remixed with a rapper in 2003 to an angry, powerful and edgy track, long before it was the ‘thing’ to do.

    Still, it remains to be seen where DC wants to go with the music from here…ten years later.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Thanks for your opinion, but I beg to defer on your assumption that he listened to too much of what was on the radio. He was asked in interviews about what music he was listening to while in the writing & recording process and his reply was that he wasn’t – he was listening to comedy records. lol.

  • Incipit

    “…he wasn’t – he was listening to comedy records. lol.”

    Oh yes, I remember that. A couple interviewers had to take a beat with that answer, because they didn’t have anywhere to go from there. Heh.

  • suenigma

    Except that you totally misinterpreted my comment. :) I didn’t say that Idols are more deserving of success or more talented than any other singer or musician. In fact I was saying exactly the opposite. I said: “they are deserving of any success that they might be able to attain….and undeserving of scorn for their efforts.” I was not debating the quality of anyone’s output, nor was I arguing that anyone had received more or less success or recognition than they deserved.

    It was a simple philosophical comment on how society needs to treasure it’s artists, regardless of what we think of their work as individuals (“good, bad or transcendant”), because without support and respect there will be no music. I think that most musicians are resigned to the fact that they will never make a living at, but to be be mocked for their efforts in addition to the theft of their work? Music has become too much about commerce, which breeds music “designed” or “programmed” to appeal to the masses. You cannot have truly great art or music without celebrating the failures and experiments also.

  • listen

    Very late to this thread, but I agree about TLM and all the songs sounding so much the same, musically, etc…. I was very disappointed with the “wall of sound” and I didn’t buy that CD. I also bought “Goodbye to the Girl….
    .
    AND I was a huge fan of David’s back in the day.

  • FallBackIntoMe

    This is backed up by the fact that both times he appeared on AI in 2011 and 2012, TLM saw a bump both times and was back in iTunes and Amazon’s charts for about a week afterward. I also saw people saying they didn’t even know about TLM in comments in various posts. So yes, RCA’s non-promotion was a factor IMO.

  • FallBackIntoMe

    “Personally, if I had to guess, I’d guess David listened to too much HAC radio in crafting the radio-targeted songs on TLM”

    Actually, David said that while making TLM, he was so immersed and stressed in creating it that he listened to nothing but comedy albums. When asked during TLM promo what music he’d been listening to, he said he hadn’t listened to any other music for at least a year, in more than one of the video interviews he did for it.

    ETA: sorry, didn’t see that someone else already said this. *headsmack*

  • wordnerdarchie

    LOL! Happens to the best of us. ;)

  • Jennifer Bridgett Fumero

    He needs to go back to Callout and Feed Your Ego! Team up with hip-hop community to explode that merger even further. Go with Lupe Fiasco or even Kanye! Write a score for an indie film that will be a guarantee to Sundance.

  • windmills

    Well, if he was serious (I’m sure I’ll be told that he was), then I guessed wrong. Certainly not the first time!

  • Warren20

    This guy has been invisible for what..5 years? I’d be careful about saying no to anybody.

  • wordnerdarchie

    Yeah, that’s the question – whether he was serious. But if you are aware of the “celebrities” that he follows on twitter, there’s a lot of comedians on that list, so I believe it to be true.

  • Ria.

    I don’t think Cook lacks ambition at all. Just the opposite. His ambition is just not what all Idol fans expect it to be. He’s a songwriter. He’s always been as serious about being a songwriter as a singer.

  • Ria.

    Touche. Why would any of us visit sites like this to follow the post-Idol careers of these contestants unless we felt at least some of them are extremely talented? To each his/her own as to which ones have the talent he/she is interested in following.

  • Ria.

    windmills, you’ve made some nice posts in this thread. I have enjoyed reading them. I do disagree though that TLM sounded like Cook was listening too much to what was on the radio. Other than possibly the 2 songs that were released as the singles, I don’t think anything on TLM sounded like anything that was currently on the radio. Paper Heart, Goodbye to the Girl, Circadian, and Time Marches On would be some examples.