Carrie Underwood To Her Haters: “Mean People Need Jesus”

Since this seems to be turning into a “thing” here’s Carrie Underwood’s response to people who have ripped her performance as Maria in The Sound of Music.

There are a ton of ways to interpret this tweet. But I doubt that she’s responding to people who were merely critical of her performance. This is likely a hurt reaction to those who were vicious online. I’m sure her mentions were full of really mean replies. That’s just how twitter works. But vitriol on such an intense level is probably really new to her.

As far as her remark that “mean people need Jesus.” Eh. I’m agnostic, but I wasn’t offended by her remark. Mean people need a lot of things. Typically, some sort of spiritual and or secular humanist foundation is a good place to begin. I take it as Carrie expressing a thought from her spiritual vantage point.

There are Christians that bug (a couple of Idols, in particular, that I’ve almost unfollowed on twitter. But I won’t name any names). But Carrie isn’t one of them. She’s somebody who has stood up for marriage equality, when it really was not in her best interests to do so. She attends a liberal church. I get the feeling she’s respectful of other’s belief systems. As I hope others would respect me and my beliefs, I try to give the same to EVERYONE, no matter how hard I disagree. Yes, some of the most intolerant and hateful people are Christian. Same could be said for some tree loving liberals.

Having said that, her world would have been easier if she’d dealt with her hurt in a private forum.

So here is your thread to go nuts. I’m going to open the Headlines thread now. Please keep the discussion confined to this space.

  • Baptized

    Wow. Someone needs to get over herself. What would the world be like without an opinion?

  • Bentley1530

    Because I was just reading other people’s response to this tweet and not the actual tweet, until I saw it here, I was convinced that was not a from the real Carrie twitter account. While I surrounded by many Born Again Christians and know this is the kind of thing they would say in everyday conversation, a lot of people will be turned off by this tweet.

  • WestiesRule

    I am a card carrying atheist and I keep my beliefs to myself. I believe everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want. I go my way, they theirs. I had a liberal Jewish upbringing and in that I was taught tolerance and acceptance. It’s my foundation. Respect is also part of that. Believe me, there are things that make my blood boil but I keep them to myself. Spewing venom never helped anything. Poor Carrie, I’m sure she can take it but she doesn’t deserve it. The internet has given a place for mean people aka haters to hide and be brave.

  • jan

    What opinion are you talking about? Carrie’s opinion about what mean people need? After all – that is an opinion too.

    She was never specific about who or what opinion she is talking about. I wouldn’t have said what she said in a public forum – because I know there would be backlash. But she is strong – and will come out on top when the dust clears.

  • Sicola789

    You go Carrie! I don’t have a problem with what she said. Other celebrities probably would have said “F**k you haters” so this was classy on her part.

    And I know conservatives who are for gay marriage/equality, so being for marriage equality doesn’t make her a liberal. She made fun of Obamacare, so it’s hard to say which end she stands on as far as politics. There are also tree hugging liberal granola Christians.

  • J3$$!C@

    There is a difference between being critical and just plain mean. This comment was probably for those that were vicious and wouldnt tell what they tweeted to her face.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    To be fair, I think Underwood really was referring to people who were deliberately hate-watching or who ran amok with snark, as opposed to implying that any form of criticism was “mean.” [ETA: The Bible verse she cites actually says clearly that it's aimed at malice and slander, so my bad for not checking it sooner -- she's definitely after the haterz, not ordinary criticism. The apostles' epistles are generally good with legit constructive criticism, too.]

    Subtweeting is never a great idea, and it’s worse for celebrities, where there are more people trying to figure out what the heck they mean.

  • windmills

    She didn’t make fun of Obamacare. As the CMA executive producer Robert Deacon made clear, she & Brad were making fun of a malfunctioning website. And just for the record, Robert Deacon confirmed last year that until they had to rewrite their CMA monologue last minute, Carrie & Brad were going to do a parody number saluting the women of country called “To All The Girls There’s Binders For” (using Willie Nelson’s tune “To All The Girls I’ve Loved Before”). So they’re equal opportunity when it comes to political parodies.

  • justmefornow

    LOL. So ridiculous, all started over a TV special? Now I’m almost sorry I missed this sawdust filled production.
    Almost.

  • ny4carrie

    Carrie has been getting death threats for over a few months but now people are telling her to go die and asking for help to actually do violence to her. So yeah- pardon me if I feel carrie is justified in calling out the haters in her classy way. But that’s just me.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Carrie was saying words put into her mouth by the CMA Awards script writers (who were surely pandering to the show’s country music loving viewers.).

    I have no idea WHAT Carrie really thinks of Obamacare.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Actually, a sanitized version of “F**k you haters” would probably be better than what she wrote. Or stopping at the “I’m praying for the haters”, which would have been fine and kept her above the fray.

    Yes, some of the most intolerant and hateful people are Christian. Same could be said for some tree loving liberals.

    I would generalize that further by saying that some of the most intolerant and hateful people are religious (as are some that are non-religious). IOW, no correlation with being “nice” and being religious.

  • Matthew

    Theres no need for anonymous people to tweet vicious comments, but celebrities need to get a thick skin and need to stop reading Twitter comments from unhappy people in their basements. Personally, Im tired of all the Jesus stuff. Not everyone is Christian and not everyone wants Jesus. Its like Rion on XF – enough about your Jesus. (I know Im gonna get negative replies)…Having said that, she should try to get with a Christian label. They’ve been open to reality show contestants, she has an inspirational story that would appeal to that demo, and I don’t know that they have a young girl recording artist

  • Matthew

    Thats the problem with social media. Public figures need to stop reading them and reacting. Most critics have lauded Underwood’s talent, but criticized her acting. She should take some acting lessons. It would be nice to see her star in a movie musical or Broadway show. She has the talent; she just needs some work. Not everyone has natural acting ability and theres no shame in that. JHud was lucky that she seemed to have natural abilities in that area

  • windmills

    Well…Robert Deacon (CMA executive producer) did say to Country Aircheck that the song parody was Carrie’s idea. But Brad said she had also texted him about doing something about the government shutdown.

    Too, everybody was ripping on the website at the time, no matter their political leanings.

  • Sicola789

    Meh either way it’s still hard to see where she stands despite her marriage stance. She has kept her political views pretty private. She has gone to a Bush Sr event honoring him before but that was probably nonpartisan.

  • Matthew

    Religion and politics are always going to alienate people. Remember Kelly Clarkson got hate tweets after she endorsed the Republican candidate in the last election

  • Bentley1530

    Of course people in high places have to learn to roll with the punches. She get’s lots of love and praise from many so she has to expect to get some haters as well. This tweet reminds me of the Taylor S. song Mean in that it seems to be a bit thin skin.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Funny. Nowhere in my post did I claim that Carrie was politically liberal. Just that she has expressed tolerant views towards others.

  • windmills

    Thanks for your take on this, MJ, I agree with your take on what Carrie meant (I mean, that her tweet was directed at the OTT hatewatchers who were on her even before this aired) and where she is coming from as a devout Christian.

    I winced a little when I saw her tweet yesterday, mostly because of how it could be misinterpreted and how it would extend the news cycle. I think it may play differently in the mainstream media than in country media, and as MJ’s post showed, familiarity with Carrie and how she’s operated over the years can make a difference in avoiding kneejerk reactions to her words.

    Personally, I hope Carrie gets to a place where she can focus on the many positives. I posted a long list of celeb tweets she’s gotten praising her singing and her guts in Headlines, her castmates and the show director and executive producers have been incredibly supportive and loving of her, she’s gotten plenty of positive feedback from fans, TSOM-Live was a smash in the ratings with strong 3 hour retention, and she’s getting a healthy share of the credit for the smash ratings.

    In cases like this, I think the best play is to just avoid Twitter mentions for a little while and/or just look at your Twitter timeline and thank people you follow for their nice tweets. But no matter how reserved a person usually is, nobody’s above making an error in judgment. I guess I can’t get that worked up about Carrie possibly making one here. It’ll extend the news cycle on this some, and then people will get tired of it and move on to the next overblown entertainment controversy.

  • Bentley1530

    And what happened to the binder song?

  • ny4carrie

    You have no idea the level of hate and death threats- people cursing her and telling her to go die- carrie has been getting. So sorry if I disagree with you that she should “get over herself.” Perhaps threats of violence is acceptable to some- but not in my world.

    I am sure carrie was speaking out to those violent vulgar haters on twitter- not professional critics.

    Her singing was flawless and she did a respectable job acting for a novice. Especially live where there are no redid. Sure she could use some improvements and acting lessons- but none if her limitations deserve death threats or cruel hatred.

    So yeah- the people who need to get over it are the rabid haters irrationally telling her to go die.

  • Guest

    Casting Carrie Underwood, they might as well cast Sheryl Underwood as Maria Von Trapp. Oh my! Just joking…lol.

    Advice to Carrie, if you read this…

    BEST response is NO response.

    ‘If you’re famous and on Twitter, you’re a moron’
    - George Clooney

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Death threats? Over being cast as Maria in SOM? Seriously? And people are actually tweeting this TO Carrie? WTF?

    ETA: I didn’t see any such tweets to Carrie. Do you have a link?

  • taylor

    That’s truly sad and that happens to every celebrity. Thankfully Carrie is older, stable and up until this point, has pretty much been been a media darling, especially in her country world. Can you imagine getting these kinds of threats when you are a teen or getting the vicious media attacks that people like MJ or Britney have gotten in the past. Can you imagine being at a place with mental health issues, divorce, or addictions and the whole world is attacking you?
    Carrie is justified in saying something, but her suggestion was insulting.

  • Tinawina

    I say people “need Jesus” all the time, and I haven’t been inside a church in years. I am not a Christian. I just don’t think it’s that big a deal.

    Christian people are going to mention Jesus sometimes. It’s not the end of the world.

  • HermeticallySealed

    Exactly. There are plenty of good people who don’t care a whit about Jesus (or any other icon), and bad people who do (and vice versa). It was a thoughtless, off the cuff remark that I’m sure she didn’t mean to be insulting, but it kind of was.

  • taylor

    “Actually, a sanitized version of “F**k you haters” would probably be better than what she wrote.”

    “Mean people suck!” would have done the job. :)

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Or stopping at the “I’m praying for the haters”, which would have been fine and kept her above the fray.

    The ideal tweet-a-Bible-verse would have been Matthew 5:44 or Romans 12:14, both of which are essentially “pray for those who persecute you.” Gets across the same idea, keeps the responsibility for practicing Christian beliefs on the person who’s definitely Christian (Underwood).

    Thinking of the ideal thing to say, 20 minutes too late, is of course also part of the human experience. If I were a Christian celeb, though, I’d have those two verses on the tip of my tongue for all occasions. They’re the little black dress of politely telling annoying people to eff off.

  • HermeticallySealed

    I have seen people get death threats online for merely saying people should be nicer to each other. The anonymity of the internet tends to embolden people to behave in ways they never would consider in person.

  • Guest

    Sad, but true. Especially when people are hiding behind the computer in their mom’s basement. You can be ruthless. There’s some sickening things people do say.

  • girlygirl

    Whether or not you have Jesus in your life/heart has little to nothing to do with whether you are a mean &/or judgmental person. I think Carrie could have found a better way of responding to the haters.

    On the other hand, I also think it’s sad that she’s receiving so much hate over a t.v. performance. So, she wasn’t great in TSOM. So what?

  • windmills

    Brad said on GMA this year (the Friday before this year’s CMAs) that some artist managers got wind about their acts being teased in the monologue and objected so they had to redo the whole thing last minute (Carrie said it was at the point that they didn’t know if the monologue would make the teleprompters in time). Deaton implied last year the song had to be dropped because it no longer fit after some monologue changes.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Stans have wished for my death, in the most gruesome way possible, just because of a perceived slight directed at their snowflake.

    I have no doubt Carrie has seen the same.

  • Guest

    I think Carrie got plenty of hate before the performance as well. Just for being cast as Maria Von Trapp. It was not as bad as Ben Affleck being cast as Batman.

  • Stooch

    When I was a child my mother put on original TSOM when it aired on TV, so for whatever reason it’s one of those special memories from my childhood that still stands out in my mind. So I didn’t watch Carrie’s performance cause I knew it would never measure up to the original in my mind for various reasons. So I can’t and won’t give an opinion on Carrie’s performance. I will say this response is stupid in this term, she been in the business long enough and had to know that even if she gave the best performance ever, she was gonna get a ton of hate for Re-prizing a classic role………….there’s a huge precedent each time such a thing is done no matter how good or bad it’s done.

  • Robert D’Angio

    I love it. Glad to see Carrie not just laying there and taking an unjustified beating. She did her best and frankly the only reason a lot of those viewers bothered tuning in was because she was a part of the show. Maybe Carrie won’t be the next Broadway bound star but I have certainly seen worse acting and singing by some Broadway regulars.

    I know a lot of people think that the best response is no response and maybe from a publicity POV you’re right. However I love that she is showing that she can be America’s Sweetheart and also an actual human being who has feelings and is more than just a celebrity whose PR team will tell her to ignore it. I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes right now, it must be so hurtful to read a lot of what is out there. Good for her sending a message back at the same people who are treating her like she doesn’t exist outside of their TV screen.

  • taylor

    “You have no idea the level of hate and death threats- people cursing her and telling her to go die- carrie has been getting.”

    As a fan of many artists including Gaga, Kelly, Adam and even Miley, I assure you that I have seen levels of hate that I never imagined possible, much less over a bunch of pop singers.

    It’s the anonymous internet. Did you not know that these types of comments happen everyday, for years and years, towards some celebrities?

  • usedtobelucy

    I, however, hope that she comes out on top *and* figures out that when random and anonymous people are throwing around criticisms of you, as a celebrity that is the moment when you should just keep quiet and go on your way. No good comes of saying *anything* at such a moment. Much less saying it in tweet form when, no matter what it is, it’s wide wide open for interpretation.

    Now, as for the Vanity Fair nonsense from those former child actors. That seems to me like a desperate bid for attention. I can well understand why the cast of an old movie might want to get together by themselves and snark on some new version of the same story over popcorn. Nothing wrong with that at all. But to invite reporters with tape recorders and notebooks over to sit with you! Geez. Those two are the people that come out looking really really stupid — and desperate and pitiful — in this whole situation, to me.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Wow! These people don’t need Jesus, they need serious medication.

  • Montavilla

    So, I’m going to post the comments I couldn’t on the closed Headlines thread. Whether or not they make sense out of context. :)

    1. The Vanity Fair reporter was dumb using the phrase “attempt to modernize” in regard to The Sound of Music, but otherwise, I don’t see how else she could have written that piece. She was assigned to cover a watching party of interest to readers because it had two of the original film cast present. They thought the show sucked, their guests seemed to agree, and they read out loud scathing comments from the twitterverse. That’s what the reporter had to work with — and so that’s what she wrote.

    2. I was really happy to see Betty Buckley praise Carrie Underwood. My secret is that American Idol someday taps her to mentor, or better yet, judge. I would love to hear the critiques from a real Broadway diva. ‘Cause let me tell you, there’s tough and then there’s Broadway tough.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I’m glad that I’m not on twitter. Now, I never will be. lol

  • Stooch

    Moral of the story…….Unless you’re Blake Shelton, don’t engage the haters

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    People can respond on the headlines thread to the Vanity Fair article. But not to the Carrie tweet. This is kinda off topic here. You might want to copy and paste, and I’ll delete later.

  • Montavilla

    Stop foisting your pro-medicine beliefs on others!

    Just kidding. :)

  • taylor

    You can look at the comment section on a Yahoo article about a person saving a family from a burning house and some of the comments will be off the chart vile. I’ve seen articles about local heroes during a tornado or hurricane turn into political mudslinging debates or become full of racist agendas. The internet is a crazy place and a breeding ground for the anonymous crazies to spew their agendas.

  • usedtobelucy

    Nor as bad as Jonny Lee Miller being cast as Sherlock Holmes. A lot of very very ugly stuff there. And he’s a brilliant actor who was obviously completely up to the role, looked at by any objective standard. That was entirely because people thought the role rightly belonged to Benedict Cumberbatch and simply couldn’t stand the thought of someone else doing it, even in a completely different incarnation.

  • Montavilla

    Okay! Sorry.

  • mad1son

    Good for her how? Do you think anyone who made vile comments will be ashamed and change their ways? It’s more likely they’ll be delighted to hear that they got under her skin, and try even harder to do it again. Carrie may have gotten a moment of satisfaction from blowing off steam, but the backlash will last much longer.

  • usedtobelucy

    “I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes right now, it must be so hurtful to read a lot of what is out there”

    This is why wise performers *don’t* read it!

    Why would you? There’s simply no point.

  • usedtobelucy

    Because people are very very silly. And in many cases very very much like the mean kind of fourth grader. …. That’s my guess, anyway!

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    Did you see Jennifer Nettles reply to Carrie: She said “Yes, and some of them need a boot straight to their box. You keep prayin and I’ll keep kickin” I loved that.

  • usedtobelucy

    ha

  • fuzzywuzzy

    You’re right. Now those “haters” are going to town mocking her “haters need Jesus” tweet and it’s just ended up with a ton of more “mean” stuff. Then the Carrie stans are attacking those “haters”, and it’s just making everything worse. It was a mistake to respond to the “haters” like this.

  • usedtobelucy

    It’s not just Twitter, of course. I’ve gotten way worse comments on a Yahoo group I’ve moderated for many years than on Twitter, for example. One woman wrote that she was praying for my entrails to be ripped out by jackals. You’d think that if you disapproved of someone that much, you’d just stop participating in the group she moderated. But apparently this is not how the human mind works!

  • fuzzywuzzy

    lmao!

  • Porfivor Nixon

    I’m an atheist and I’m fine with her remark. She’s just venting. I feel sorry for her, she took a risk and she has really gotten hammered for it- although she should have had some people around her to tell her it didn’t seem to be working. I love Carrie, she’s a great Christian role model, the comment is nothing, it’s not the end of the world. I hate that she appears hurt, though.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    Carrie is a Christian and Jesus instructs Christians to pray for those who treat you badly. She’s doing what she’s supposed to do as a Christian.

  • Stooch

    For all the same reasons we will never achieve World Peace, the internet will never be a nice and safe place

  • usedtobelucy

    That’s it, all right.

  • Ronnie D

    I disagree with Carrie’s Tweet. Mean people need to be called out on what they are being mean about, not told they need religion. There are a lot of people who get sick of being told they need Jesus or religion.

  • Tess Herself

    I sure hate everything about being PC. Might as well walk around with duct tape on your mouth. If Carrie thinks mean people might be less mean if they got a little “Jesus”, then good for her. If other people want to then condemn Carrie for speaking her piece, well good on them, I guess. I think I’ll add something to the “don’t discuss on a first date”: religion, politics, and now who should be “allowed” to walk on the ghost of Julie Andrews’ Maria.

  • Guest

    “If I close my eyes, Carrie Underwood sounds fine. But her eyes aren’t quite as alive as the hills”

    “Carrie Underwood has a great voice, but she can’t act her way out of a brown paper package tied up with string.”

    “I wish Carrie Underwood would shut her Von Trapp.”

    “How do you solve a problem like Carrie Underwood?”

    “The hills are alive with the sound of Carrie Underwood, but they died shortly after the sight of her acting…”

    Carrie Underwood ? @carrieunderwood
    Plain and simple: Mean people need Jesus. They will be in my prayers tonight… 1 Peter 2:1-25

    http://www.memphisflyer.com/binary/825c/jesus-christ-returns.jpg

  • Jingle Jam

    I still haven’t watched her musical but I heard that she did pretty well. People are probably just busy comparing her to Julie Andrews so she’s going through a hard time after it aired.

  • HermeticallySealed

    40 years ago, growing up I was always told there were three things you don’t discuss in mixed company; Religion, Sex and Politics. In fact, it was a fairly common statement. Why? Because those subjects are always considered touchy. Amazing how now doing so is suddenly considered “PC” when for generations it was called “good manners.”

    The fact is, if you are going to say something (regardless what it is) you shouldn’t be surprised when others react, especially when you purposefully do it publicly. It’s exceedingly naive for anyone to go on social media, make statements of any kind and NOT expect responses.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Well, hey, the situation exists because lots and lots of people on Twitter had no worries about not being “PC” or even minimally polite. They said exactly what it was on their mind to say, with none of the troubling filters that result from having empathy for others or concern about manners.

    Honestly, I think the hate-watchers, while no doubt deeply sincere according to their lights, came across as self-involved asshats. Maybe it’s a service to humanity that they self-identify as awful people so anybody who isn’t awful can avoid them.

  • carola99

    Man, I totally feel for Carrie and understand her frustration.
    People should stop the hate tweets. Enough already! She
    did the best she could and IMO a fantastic job!

    I enjoyed it so much and I am so happy NBC did it. Fingers crossed these type of productions will continue to happen at least once a year. So much better than the garbage that is on TV nowadays.

    Also, I wish people would stop comparing her to Julie.She is not!
    And.. It´s okay!
    At least Carrie has the satisfaction that SOML was a huge success with massive ratings.

    Carrie, you are an amazing talent and a great person.
    Just forget about all the haters now and take with you the treasure moments you spent with the cast and crew. Those will never come back but the memories will last forever.

    You are brave lady and deserve all the success and happiness you´ve had in your life. May it continue…

    Hugs! We love you!

  • Guest

    It could be messier than ObamaCare… Yikes!

  • Lexie O’Neill

    I’m a Christian and I love your comment. I will say if I were her, I wouldn’t have thought anything about the comment because that’s how I talk. I’m very rarely around non-Christians and wouldn’t have thought anything about it, but then again, I’m not famous…

  • Guest

    Just go to CNN comments things turn political, racial, etc. It’s brutal there.

  • J3$$!C@

    Carrie Underwood never had a chance. She took a risk, and whether people tuned in just to snark at her, IT WAS A RATINGS SUCCESS.

  • ellen8

    I think she should have said… nothing. She validated the haters by responding.

  • Lexie O’Neill

    How about both?:))

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “although she should have had some people around her to tell her it didn’t seem to be working.”

    It seems to me that there must have been an underestimation of how important acting ability would be in playing Maria, otherwise it’s hard to imagine someone with so little experience believing that they could handle this role well. I would hope that Carrie now realizes that the criticism of her acting ability has merit, even if some of that criticism was expressed rather harshly.

  • taylor

    I expect it there. Well, not the racial and homophobic comments so much. When those types of comments are thrown into random articles about local heroes or children with cancer, I know they are coming from people who have lost all sense of reality. The internet and social media is a playground for bigots and crazies.

  • Miss Blue

    I find all this controversy ironically hilarious. Carrie’s been taking shots since AI at least – I think she can handle it. Further, am I really supposed to feel sorry for this young woman? Really? She’s one of the most talented singers in her field, hugely successful, beyond wealthy, happily married to a gorgeous, talented man, she’s positively lovely to look at – she’s young, gorgeous, rich, talented and in love. What is to feel sorry about here?

    As far as her tweet, while I am anti-religion, how does this tweet affect me? Not at all. Who gives a damn? If Carrie finds solace and strength in her religion, as my mother did – good for her. We all have our crutch that gets us through the night, to use a metaphor. If her’s is religion that’s just fine with me.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I’m wondering if being “mean” on twitter (and other social media) is the indoor equivalent of venting “road rage” when driving. It’s often more about releasing pent up anger and frustration at someone/something else, rather than the act/thing that you are reacting to.

    ETA: It seems that with these nasty tweets, the level of reaction (i.e. death threats) is far out of proportion to the act/thing being reacted to.

  • J3$$!C@

    I started watching AI in season 5, so I missed her season. When I read her tweet, I thought, this might be the first time in her life she has ever been criticized hardcore. I dont know, I just find it funny she would tell people they need Jesus. It bothered her and it shouldnt. Her life is perfect for the reasons you stated.

  • taylor

    They don’t need Jesus to become better people. There are many outstanding members of society, in every corner of the world, who don’t have a belief system based on Jesus. The prisons are full of people who love Jesus.

    If they have a chemical imbalance, mental disorder of some kind or a severe personality disorder, medication could definitely help! :)

  • milwlovesadam

    I don’t like religion being foisted on people , or proselytizing.

    That being said, I do think Carrie would have been better off just thanking her fans and for thanking her fellow cast members for a job well done. No matter what the naysayers and critics said in public venues, the show was a ratings smash, and the vast majority of viewers truly liked it.

    Staying positive would have been taking the high road. IMHO.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Some of them probably already believe in Jesus, so medication is the way to go.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Having a perfect life doesn’t create an exemption where people don’t have to be polite to you, though.

    I don’t feel the slightest bit sorry for Underwood over balanced, civil, constructive criticism that was based in understanding of the show and its goals. She’s a better singer than actress. She got an opportunity that her acting skills weren’t entirely up to, based on being a big-name draw.

    I do feel sorry for anybody who’s in the path of massive amounts of random vitriol simply for being famous. Dealing with crazy people gets wearying. Better to be wealthy and happy as compensation than not… but it’d be even better if the vitriol-flingers controlled themselves.

  • Stooch

    There’s not a very good or humane track record of religion being used to treat mental problems

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Yes, finding the right meds is the way to effectively treat mental disorders.

  • Lexie O’Neill

    Actually, I’m a psychologist. For most of the history of the field, religion was kept out. Then, in the last couple of decades, it’s being brought back more and more, being incorporated into therapy, because for those who are believers, it is very helpful, if not crucial. There’s a lot of research, well done and often by non-believers. I can give you citations.:)

  • Ronnie D

    Tweeting publicly about a religion with a history of intolerance does effect all of us. It worries me even more that her faithful fans will start down the same path. It almost parallels the time when Carrie was in the crosshairs for her opinion on Marriage Equality. Can’t have it both ways.

  • Incipit

    “… the hate-watchers, while no doubt deeply sincere according to their lights, came across as self-involved asshats. Maybe it’s a service to humanity that they self-identify as awful people so anybody who isn’t awful can avoid them.”

    This is a delightfully useful diagnosis… IMO. It is unfortunate that hate-watchers (and Hate Tweeters) exist – but I certainly appreciate knowing who the Rectaglia are – it’s almost as good as carrying a sign to self identify. Works for me.

  • Amy Beth

    Carrie’s tweet reminds me of my all time favorite bumper sticker. You need to know a little bit about hockey to appreciate it.

    “Jesus saves. And Esposito scores on the rebound!”

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    I don’t think she was foisting religion on people at all. She didn’t tell anyone else to pray. She said she was praying.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “If Carrie thinks mean people might be less mean if they got a little “Jesus”, then good for her.”

    Two words: The Crusades

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Carrie is promoting the idea that belief in Jesus means that a person won’t be mean, which is not true.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I would be interested in those references.

  • Lexie O’Neill

    Two words: Islamic jihad. The Crusades were in response to 700 years of Muslims conquering territory that wasn’t theirs, pressuring the Ottoman empire, knocking on Eastern Europe’s door they had already taken over all of Spain, a bit of France, etc. Hubby’s a military historian.:)

  • fuzzywuzzy

    My point is that a lot of horrible things have been done in the name of religion by “believers”, so equating religious belief of any kind with tolerance or “nice” behavior towards others is totally flawed.

  • milwlovesadam

    Really? Telling people that they “need Jesus” sounds like a pretty strong statement to me. Even if meant for “mean people.” BTW I know lots of pretty mean people who “have Jesus.” One does not equal the other, IMHO.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I guess that means that “nice” non-believers don’t “need Jesus”? ;)

    ETA: What if those “haters” already believe in Jesus? What should they do then?

  • MichaelGxo

    Not haters Carrie, not detractors.Understand that YOU are not above critique. You are not special. You were pretty mediocre (at best) and abominable (at worst) in your first real acting role. Jesus can’t help that. So…if everyone who has an opinion OR some level of taste–or a standard needs Jesus…well, then you NEED a good acting coach.

  • milwlovesadam

    Right-o!

    Again, just don’t like pushing religion in any way ,shape or form.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    Well, she’s been getting death threats. I think someone who is so messed up as to threaten someone’s life over a TV musical needs some help, and as a Christian I would also say that Jesus would provide that help.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    This is not about criticism. This is about death threats. Serious stuff, not just people who didn’t like her performance.

  • MichaelGxo

    I think her tweet– “I’m praying for you” had an arrogant tone. Her ego is clearly bruised. Hey…show business is a bitch.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    Sure, there are mean Christians. LOL. I know some. But they are not behaving as Jesus would want them to behave, that’s for sure. The bottom line is even after we accept Christ, we are still flawed human beings while we are on this Earth. I’ll be the first one to say I am by no means perfect.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I know how you feel. I intensely dislike proselytizing as well.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    What if those haters already believe in Jesus?

  • milwlovesadam

    I feel bad about death threats, and negativity. I really do. The anonymity of the web is a haven for horrible hate-posting. Look under any You Tube or article posted online. It makes me sick. Carie did not deserve to be so reviled. She worked her ass off and put herself and her career out there on live TV for three hours. I was never a fan of hers, but she sang beautifully in the show. Sure, her acting could be better, but, this will not end her career.

    I just don’t like anybody, and I mean anybody, telling anyone else what they SHOULD believe.

  • MichaelGxo

    Did Carrie tell you this…or are you just assuming? How do you know exactly what she meant? Did she specify it was aimed at only those people who (purportedly) made supposed “death threats”?

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Then belief in Jesus has nothing to do with “mean” behavior.

  • MichaelGxo

    exactly.

  • Cathy Mcguire Kosak

    all I know is,, that if you guys are all right.. I have nothing to lose by believing……but if I’m right……?

  • LA944

    I’m not a religious person and not Christian. But, Carrie’s tweet doesn’t bother me at all. MJ’s right–she probably shouldn’t have responded. But, maybe the nasty tweets just got to her. There are some really mean people out there. It’s almost like it’s the thing to do. These people get some sort of perverse pleasure out of it. I don’t care if people are snarky–it’s the over the top viciousness that gets me.

    I have friends who do quite a bit in animal rescue and I try to help the best I can. I just can’t do too much of it because it so upsetting. Talk about mean people–it’s unbelievable! .

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    You’re right, I don’t know Carrie. But neither do you. So your conclusions are the same as mine–assumptions.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    Not to mention that Christians are still being killed by Muslims right now.

  • usedtobelucy

    Yeah, I suspect you’re onto something with the road rage thought. …. and in both cases people aren’t conscious of the power of the weapon they’re wielding.

  • suenigma

    Count me as another atheist that is fine with her remark. Given her personal world view, wishing her haters to either find or emulate Jesus (the world might be a better place if more did – even if I do believe that he was just a man and not the son of God) is a positive response. Now if she had said that she hoped that God would smite then down, or that they should go to Hell and commune with Satan, then I could see the outrage. Intent is everything, and I genuinely believe that she is praying for the haters right now. I do not feel that she is preaching or foisting her religion on me.

  • wayne strong

    Did you read the verse? It is speaking to christians. Christians are called to ‘live differently’ than the ‘world’. Its their duty. 1 Peter 2:1-2 specifically says that Christians are being mean slandering, hypocrites and should strive to be better.

    As to the “Mean people need jesus”, I think it is said partly sarcasm like you would see on a tv show ex: someone does something gross and the reply is “he needs jesus”, but thats just me.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    And I bet that some of them believe in Jesus.

  • rbidol

    So let’s look at the passage Carrie actually identifies.

    “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.” (1 Peter 2:1) I think, through twitter-culture, we see how much malice exists in our hearts. The way we love to slander each other, the pettiness, the eagerness to see others fall. No amount of money, no amount of fame, no amount of beauty justifies treating another human being with malice and cruelty. If someone is at a place in her or his life where the word “hater” could possibly apply to them, they are doing it wrong.

    Why would Carrie identify Jesus Christ as a solution to this problem? From the same passage: “When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats.” (1 Peter 2:23) Jesus establishes a different pattern of living, one in which we love our enemies, one in which we do good to those who hate us, one in which there is no retaliation when insults and hatred are hurled our way.

    Peter was writing this to a community that was in constant danger of not only hatred, but actual violence, by the surrounding community. Through the example of Jesus, he could tell them to model Jesus and not retaliate, not to become malicious, but to endure the suffering with love.

    Carrie has identified Jesus as a radically counter-cultural figure–certainly counter our culture of “haters”–and a life-giving figure, and she is in fact following his example by not retaliating with anger or hatred, but prayer. I can think of no better way for her to respond, and I am inspired by it.

  • Mel432

    Carrie, some people get vitriol constantly, continually, unnecessarily, just being themselves. Not because of anything they said, their actions, their beliefs. Try walking in their shoes for a day.

  • Stooch

    “The Crusades were in response to 700 years of Muslims conquering territory that wasn’t there”

    I love how the slaughter of so many innocent can be rationalized. The fact the vanquished were forced to convert, I guess doesn’t really matter

  • suenigma

    Has Carrie implied that Christians are all good or that Non-Christians are inherently bad? I get what you’re saying, but it is kind of splitting hairs and twisting intent. I know that she has friends and loved ones that she respects that are not Christian.

  • milwlovesadam

    Another two words: The Inquisition.

  • taylor

    “because for those who are believers…”

    That’s the key phrase right there.
    A professional psychologist should never tell a person, who doesn’t base their belief system around Jesus, that they need to “find Jesus” to help with their mental health issues! Using your personal religion (especially a specific religious belief system) on those that don’t have the same religious views, to “cure” mental disorders is unethical.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Right, but the fact is that there are lots of Christians who engage in “mean” behavior (despite believing in Jesus), and lots of non-believers who are “nice”, so religious beliefs aren’t necessarily connected to behavior.

  • jms

    I agree with pretty much everything MJ said, although I think I kind of rolled my eyes at the “they will be in my prayers” comment. Not in offense, but I guess I find it strangely humorous whenever people say that.

    I’m not a fan of Carrie’s Sound of Music performance but I’m not repulsed. Still a Carrie fan.

  • Garrett Clayman

    Carrie is definitely someone who has not received a lot of hate in her career she is pretty much adored as America’s sweetheart she isn’t like Miley or Adam or the countless others who have learned to ignore their mentions, considering this she handled it pretty well, she didn’t lash out.

  • milwlovesadam

    There is a lot of research recently published, and more in the process, about people who have faith, of any kind, being helped in measurable ways by believing. Prayer circles, prayer chains, regular service attendance, singing in the choir, etc. Even attending events at your church or synagogue or mosque or temple on a regular basis and being part of a faith community, all of these are helpful in people’s lives. Psychologists and psychiatrists do not proselytize. That would be unethical. But, there are now Christian psychologists who use prayer as part of their therapy. For their Christian patients.

    LOL. Not sure it’s a billable service.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    This is the best explanation I’ve seen. Thank You!

  • suenigma

    Yes, and it is appalling that they get treated thusly. They too are entitled to respond to their abusers, and I would support them also. Not quite sure why other people getting abused means that Carrie has to suffer in silence though?

  • Tinawina

    I don’t know. I’m not religious, but I find the idea that people who are can never even mention it in public or they are “pushing” something a little OTT. It’s not like I walk around entitled to a bubble where no one ever publicly believes things I don’t. In HER worldview, mean people could benefit from Jesus’ love… or something along those lines. Big deal. Her saying that out loud has nothing to do with me. It makes zero difference in my life. Who am I to tell her to shut up? It just seems odd to expect that IMO.

  • Montavilla

    I always imagined that the first psychologists were the priests — hearing confession. Simliar to the way that chemistry grew out of alchemy.

  • taylor

    That all is very different than a psychologist using their personal belief system to treat a mentally unhealthy patient, that doesn’t have the same belief system. That person is unstable, fragile and vulnerable. A professional psychologist should never take advantage of that fragile state and look at it as an opportunity to push their religion. That is highly unethical!

  • H.A.

    I kind of wish she did say “F*ck You Haters” because that’s how I roll but I know she would never go there. Following so many pop stars including my special Idol snowflake(Adam), the hate Carrie is getting ain’t nothing in comparison. It’s a daily hatefest. Carrie is not just a singer but also a celebrity. Once you become a celebrity you are a target. I don’t think I’ve seen this much action on a Carrie thread ever. You go girl!! The haters will make you an even bigger superstar. Carrie is a strong girl and she’ll get through it. Her tweet was unfortunate but I bet she’ll know how to respond next time with a good media adviser.

  • suenigma

    Not entirely true. A few years back she was regularly shredded in the tabloids for her relationships – Tom Brady and some popular blonde actor dude that she supposedly broke the heart of. She wasn’t quite painted the Scarlet Tease that Taylor Swift has been, but it was close. She also took a lot of heat for her beliefs about Vegetarianism and animal cruelty. The Beef Industry HATED her. And more than a few people wanted her head for her liberal stance on marriage equality.

  • Montavilla

    Didn’t Carrie get a lot of hate when she won Idol? I seem to remember something about the studio audience booing.

    I may not be a fan of her music, but she’s impressing the hell out of me with her guts, work ethic, and attitude. She can rain down fire and brimstone on her detractors for all I care.

  • Garrett Clayman

    Every celeb has haters, but I’m sure if you typically look at Carrie’s mentions on twitter its a lot of little girls saying “You are my inspiration” and “I love your song” and now I’m sure its a lot of like “F U U ruined my favorite movie you should die!” so its a little shock to her

  • milwlovesadam

    I’m not telling her to shut up.

    I’m saying, I just don’t care for it when people feel that somebody needs to believe something. I think it is actually a very narrow world view to believe that everybody needs to believe in the same things.

    This is a big beautiful world full of diversity. I believe in being a good person, doing kind deeds and respecting other people’s beliefs. I do not believe in sending out negativity into the world or into the tech cloud where it will live forever in bytes of hate.

  • taylor

    Nah, nothing that all the rest of them haven’t gone through. (and definitely nothing compared to the two I mentioned above) I believe Nigel said she was the clear winner every single week that season, so the voting audience wasn’t really divided on who should win.

  • Montavilla

    Social Darwinism.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    The statement that “mean people need Jesus” infers that people who believe in Jesus would be less likely to be “mean”, which is not true. More generally, believing that religious people are less likely to be “mean” than non-believers is also not true.

  • suenigma

    Too true too true. The real negative shit in her career was before the advent of Twitter, so the death threats and vile comments were not so immediate then. LOL Shock indeed.

  • rbidol

    But can you appreciate how your “big beautiful world full of diversity” can itself serve to shut down conversation? To use “diversity” as a tool to stop someone else from articulating their own convictions? This itself can become very narrow and inhibiting of free expression and an honest sharing of opinions.

  • sigirl

    “Maybe Carrie won’t be the next Broadway bound star but I have certainly seen worse acting and singing by some Broadway regulars.”
    A Broadway regular whose acting was worse than Carrie’s would not be a Broadway regular.

  • suenigma

    I agree with you about religious people not being inherently morally superior or nicer than non-religious people, but in the context of the religious scripture she pointed to, we would all be better off if more of us emulated that behavior and attitude, even if it is merely apocryphal.

    “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.”

    “When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats.”

  • Tinawina

    And by saying that, didn’t you just tell us how she should have handled the situation according to YOUR belief system? So should people who believe in expressing themselves strongly on twitter even if their opinion is negative feel preached to now? You just implied what they should believe. Is that “intolerant”?

    Once you go down that path, things get shady IMO.

  • Incipit

    “…but if I’m right…?”

    Ahh – Pascal’s Wager – but you still have to have chosen the ‘right’ religion to win that bet you are making, Cathy McGuire Kosak. Too many of them are mutually exclusive.

    It’s all sophistry to me – there have been honorable humans all across the centuries, their existence is not dependent upon whatever religion and/or whatever god is in ascendance in a particular country, in a particular century, though if people find that helpful, then whatever works for them.

    I think that makes me an Ecumenical Humanist. If it matters.

  • milwlovesadam

    Gah. I’m done. I shoulda taken that Philosophy course a long time ago. I’d be better at this!!

    Can’t even be positive and open-minded without getting bashed on the webz.

    And. That’s my point.

  • Stooch

    What if both sides are wrong? And one of the other religions are right………..?

  • rbidol

    But how can we possibly survive as a culture when “It’s a daily hatefest”? What would that do to the human spirit, to be surrounded continually by such hatred? It seems to me that it will inevitably cause the heart to close off out of self-protection, which diminishes the person. I also don’t see why being a celebrity should invite that kind of treatment. And finally, I don’t see how saying “f*ck you, haters” could help to heal the situation. Don’t you think Carrie modeling Christ’s decision to not retaliate in the face of hatred has more potential to really change the hatefest long term?

  • Montavilla

    Then again, Mike Tyson had a one-man show on Broadway last year.

  • suenigma

    Count me as a card carrying atheist who agrees with you. :)

  • Disraeli99

    Mean people need Jesus like Carrie needs acting lessons.

    #keepingitreal

  • Sicola789

    I think sometimes its hard to ignore the hate on twitter, especially if there is a lot. She is only human.

    I love the way both Scotty McCreery and Candice Glover respond to their haters on twitter- they just respond directly to the tweet. I remember Scotty saying he loves responding to a hater on twitter by just writing “lol” then his fans take care of the rest by blowing up the persons timeline lol. I think people try to take cheap shots at celebrities on twitter expecting them not to respond…

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Sure, but a person doesn’t need to subscribe to any religion or be a “believer” to recognize that what is advocated in that passage is good advice on how to treat other human beings. It just isn’t connected to “needing” any religious belief. Many religions advocate positive behavior for people, but one doesn’t need to have religious belief to follow those tenents.

  • suenigma

    Now THAT is funny! Her singing was divine and she looked lovely, but her acting was rather amateurish, IMO. I did enjoy the production overall and I entirely respect her efforts and the balls it took to do it.

  • Tinawina

    Bashed! I thought we were having a respectful conversation! :(

    I mean, I’m a serious lefty live and left live type person myself! We probably have the same value system ironically. I just disagree on this one point. I’m not trying to yell at you or anything. I never meant to come off that way. I’m sorry.

    I just strongly believe that the more dialog the better. For that, people need to be able to say what they believe. That’s all I am trying to say.

  • jasmine999

    But she IS retaliating while pretending not to retaliate. She calls some people “mean,” tells them that they need to convert to her religion to be better people, then tells them that she is praying for them, which implies her moral superiority to them. That is hypocritical. F*** off may not be ideal, but it is also not hypocritical.

  • Disraeli99

    Carrie needs to understand that quoting the Bible isn’t going to hide
    the fact that she and the entire production SUCKED. People saying that
    aren’t being mean – they’re being honest.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    The problem’s not Underwood’s mentioning religion — she even sings about it. The problem’s with her doing it in a passive-aggressive subtweet.

    The way subtweeting goes is always that the targets are either gleeful for getting under your skin or oblivious that you meant them, while people you were more-or-less okay with get prickly. If she wanted to confront a specific segment of her audience, she needed to either do it directly or give up on the whole message and just thank her supporters. This “junior high school students for Jesus” routine wasn’t going to do anything but stir the pot.

  • H.A.

    Exactly!!!

  • wayne strong

    I think you are assigning your own ‘meaning’ to what she wrote rather than accepting her intent as it lays

    Like the 1stworldproblems, ‘children in africa have it worse’ reply after someone says “I’m having the worst day, my ipad broke”. Or, my favorite, the person who overhears you say something like “all guys are jerks” and explains with examples why all guys are not jerks.

    I think the critics here are reading too deep into things.

  • suenigma

    I agree with everything you said here, but I don’t think that what Carrie said is counter to it. Again, I think that her intent was that certain people
    should follow Jesus’ “alleged” teachings in this regard (hence the scripture reference) and not that we all have to go out and be born again or anything. IDK.

  • milwlovesadam

    Thanks. It’s all good. I’m a big lefty too.

  • rbidol

    I appreciate this perspective, fuzzywuzzy. But it seems to me that sometimes people can become so trapped in their patterns of hatred and vengeance and anger that it really does take a kind of “conversion” to break out of those patterns and realize a different way of life is possible. It is not uncommon for people to think there is no other way to live than to be immersed in malice and slander and hypocrisy and envy because that’s the only world they know. It is my opinion that the witness of resurrection makes the possibility of another world real.

  • Tinawina

    Oh, I totally agree she shouldn’t have said anything at all. I just don’t agree that by saying what she did rises to the level of prosthletyzing (sp).

  • weareallinnocent

    I’ve only read 3 responses to this thread (most recent) but I’m going to sign on in support of this one. :-)

    I also think “Twitter is the devil” coming from Carrie could have been effective, too. lol

  • suenigma

    Totally agree with you and MJ on this – best to have not responded. BUT, I don’t see any malice in it either.

  • rbidol

    There is a difference–a big difference–between nonviolent resistance and succumbing to “hater” culture. To respond to the world’s hatred with prayer for the “hater” is to prioritize that person’s humanity. It is the more humane, superior response, in my opinion.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I see that possible interpretation, but until/if Carrie further clarifies her tweet, it’s hard to know for sure whether the “mean people need Jesus” simply refers to the passage cited, or is advocating that those “mean people” should convert to Christianity. If it’s a simple reference to a passage that contains good advice for how humans should behave (without having to “believe”), then her tweet becomes less offensive (at least to me).

  • Lynn Farris

    I really enjoyed her performance. It is fine to be critical, but there were some reviews that were needlessly cruel. She may be famous, but she is human too, I think it would have been best to ignore them,. She got huge ratings. Money is what counts in the industry. She will be doing more musicals I bet.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    I just don’t agree that by saying what she did rises to the level of prosthletyzing (sp)

    Yeah, I’d put it under “praying for” part under “that’s what Christians are supposed to do” and the “needs Jesus” part under “oops, lost her temper.” Actual proselytizing would call for trying to make coming to Jesus seem appealing to her audience.

    I don’t necessarily like the prejudices revealed by the “need Jesus” remark, but it’s not like I’m inviting Underwood to parties where she’d say embarrassing things to my friends (nor is it the only topic on which I’d find her embarrassing, come to think of it).

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Which reviews? The ones from reputable legit media weren’t “needlessly cruel” IMO.

    http://www.metacritic.com/tv/the-sound-of-music-live!/critic-reviews

  • jasmine999

    I see it more as a passive-aggressive way of asserting superiority.

  • Mel432

    It hasn’t diminished a few people that I know who have to deal with this daily. They just take a different attitude. Saying things, like…”Love overcomes hate”. Something very generic. Simple, not offensive to anyone.

  • Carriefan1

    1 Peter 2: 7-10
    Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,” and, “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”
    They stumble because they disobey the message – which is also what they were destined for.
    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
    Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

  • Mel432

    “It is the more humane, superior response, in my opinion.”

    Superiority response is more like it.

  • milwlovesadam

    Exactly. A simple statement of gratitude, thanks, thanking so many for tuning in, for her cast and crew. That would have been positive, and not mentioned the haters.

  • rbidol

    Yea, but really, it *is* the superior response to not respond to hate with hate. I mean, we are celebrating Nelson Mandela’s life these days, aren’t we?

  • milwlovesadam

    There is little that is more offensive than being told you are being prayed for in a belief system that is not yours. IMHO

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I just read the entire passage that Carrie cited in her tweet (1 Peter 2:1-25), and it does appear to be advocating conversion to Christianity.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+2%3A1-25&version=NKJV

  • Carriefan1

    1 Peter 2: 11-15
    Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
    Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.
    For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.

  • Tess Herself

    I know lots of people who pray who don’t have a religious bone in their body. In fact their are definitions of prayer (just look it up) that have nothing to do with a person’s God. Why do we automatically assume that when someone is praying for something they are asking their God for help or guidance?

  • Mel432

    I don’t think Russell Crowe retaliated at all when he received some pretty cruel reviews for his singing in Les Miz. It comes with the territory.

  • Carriefan1

    1 Peter 2: 16-20
    Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.
    Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.
    But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.

  • Tess Herself

    I pray to the universe everyday to give me some personal strength to deal with the junk life throws at me, and I often include my friends and relations and even strangers in that prayer. I don’t think anyone would mind that I want them to have some inner peace from the great beyond.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    If you read the entire passage that Carrie cited in her tweet (1 Peter 2:1-25), it does appear to advocate a conversion to Christianity for “mean people”.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+2%3A1-25&version=NKJV

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Why do we automatically assume that when someone is praying for something they are asking their God for help or guidance?

    Haven’t the faintest idea, since the question doesn’t apply to Underwood’s tweet. She specifically says “Mean people need Jesus” and cites a verse from the apostles’ epistles that says malicious and spiteful people need the grace of God. So there’s not really any wiggle room for interpreting Underwood’s reference to prayer as being in other than a Christian context.

  • listening

    She’s got a point mean people do need Jesus probably wouldn’t be so mean especially if they practiced what was preached.

  • Carriefan1

    1 Peter 2: 21-25
    To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
    When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.
    For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

  • Tess Herself

    But Carrie only says they will be in her prayers. She doesn’t say she is going to be praying for the redemption of their souls.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    They sucked in your opinion. I thought it was wonderful. I DVRd it and watched it AGAIN, then I pre ordered the DVD on Amazon. That’s how much I liked it.

  • rbidol

    I can appreciate this, I really can. But if we are really going to understand each other, I think we must understand where the other is coming from. And within her “system”, prayer is an act of love for the other. Such language can be abused–it often is–and such comments can be received as an imposition, and so she might have been more sensitive to your concerns. But I think it is fair to also say that within her own worldview, to pray for the enemy is to wish them well and desire for them a fuller life and greater love.

    And again, I think it is objectively true that spending your time hating each other on the internet is an impoverished life.

  • usedtobelucy

    It’s a passive aggressive response as well because it is at least to some degree an assertion of one’s superiority. Actually praying for someone is quite different from writing on the Internet that you’re *going* to pray for them because they’re mean.

    Matthew 6, vs. 6 and 7. Just sayin.

    “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to
    stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they
    may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret.”

    The truly superior response in this case — and also the practical and effective response because it defuses the situation — is to ignore it. And pray for the people on your own time and without announcing in social media that you intend to.

  • Mel432

    What if they already had Jesus and were still mean? Then what?

  • milwlovesadam

    My husband has watched it twice. Today.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    But Carrie only says they will be in her prayers. She doesn’t say she is going to be praying for the redemption of their souls.

    Check out the verse she cites, which has been quoted in this thread. It’s quite clearly and explicitly about malicious people needing redemption of their souls, and the “mean people need Jesus” remark makes the connection between the “in my prayers” part and the Bible verse.

    It’s really stretching it to suggest that when Underwood mentions praying for people in the same tweet where she states, in two different ways, that they need redemption, that these are distinct, separate, and unrelated thoughts, If that’s her intent, she’s dismayingly unskilled at both rhetoric and any sort of religious exegesis, and I’m not up for defending that level of ineptitude.

  • rbidol

    Human beings have convictions about the good life and advocate those convictions. She may believe that following Christ is more fulfilling than being a hater–and indeed, I think it is. Is there anything wrong with saying it?

  • Lynn Farris

    There were a lot of blogs that were. I think she was beat up for 4 reasons.
    1. Country singer
    2. came from American Idol
    3. Didn’t do broadway first.
    4. It was closer to the play than the movie version.

    I saw comments about how bad she was for singing “My favorite things” in the abbey. She didn’t decide that or many other issues.

  • Tess Herself

    I don’t think Carrie is talking about reviews or reviewers. I would think that she is talking about tweets that are hurling personal, not professional mud at her. There is a difference.

  • Tess Herself

    Just finished watching it again as I spent a snowy cold day singing along to some old favorite tunes.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    We were discussing whether Carrie was proselytizing in her tweet, and weren’t sure, but now that I have read the entire passage that she quoted, I can see that she is proselytizing.

  • HKfan

    I thought it was still good manners not to talk about religion or politics……..not sex though…we talk about that all the time!!!!!

  • Tess Herself

    I didn’t know that quoting a scripture was proselytizing. I wouldn’t think that someone could be so easily swayed that a single passage from the bible could convert them. Guess I gotten stop listening to Christmas Carols this holiday season.

  • Disraeli99

    More power to ya. It’s your money. For me, I’d be pretty pissed right about now if I had to pay for watching that trainwreck. And I like Carrie – as a singer. I hope it re-airs on a more suitable channel – Comedy Central comes to mind :)

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Well, anyone can write a blog. lol The reviews from legit media (at the link that I posted) all criticized her acting ability as sub-par (but weren’t cruel about it) and that was a valid criticism, and none of them criticized her for the 4 points that you mentioned, which don’t appear to be valid criticisms.

  • Ronnie D

    Last I looked, this wasn’t a Bible Study Blog lol. This is what I meant about people tweeting or forcing their religious doctrine on others.

  • milwlovesadam

    Thanks for your perspective. I actually can agree with your post.

    Living in a country with a Christian majority ( I include all branches of Christianity ), and not being Christian, I hear people saying often, “I’ll pray for you” or, “I’ll keep you in my prayers.”

    I’m not offended by the “I’ll keep you in my prayers” , BUT, “I’ll pray for you” has so many implications, that I do find that offensive at times.

    Therefore, Carrie, to me, has entered, not knowingly or purposely, or in a well thought out manner, into waters that are deep.

    I actually feel kind of bad for her right now. Her twitter must be exploding.

  • Pippygirl

    One of my favorite Idol Twitter responses is Kris’ who responded to someone telling him he needed singing lessons with “Dang, I knew there was something I forgot to do”.
    Maybe Carrie would have been better responding with some self-deprecating humor. I’ve always found that it’s hard for people to hate on someone who doesn’t take themselves too seriously.

  • wonderings

    Not a fan of the slave & master references here.

    Where does Carrie see herself in this? The ‘unjust sufferer’ suffering for ‘doing good’ and enduring the foul lashes of twitter and the media?

  • Disraeli99

    You a braver soul than me. I want to keep good thoughts of Carrie as she is – a powerhouse country singer. Acting lessons I hope are in her future if she gets another wild hair to take on another iconic role – in public.

  • jasmine999

    I agree that “twitter is the devil” is better than f*** off :)

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    I’m curious to see what the DVD sales will be when it’s released on Amazon on Dec 17. A lot of people, like me, loved it. It started out last night at over #1000 in Movies and TV and #16 in musicals, now it’s up to around #200 and something in movies and TV, and #3 in musicals.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    I really hope she keeps acting.

  • taylor

    ” following Christ is more fulfilling than being a hater–and indeed, I think it is.”

    Following Judaism, Buddhism or just being an upstanding member of society is more fulfilling than being a hater. Becoming a better person isn’t a one way entry determined by believing in the religious figure you personally believe in. There are many paths to becoming a better person and they don’t all flow through your individual, and rather narrow religious definitions or beliefs.

  • Cathy Mcguire Kosak

    As a professing Christian,,I appreciate your comment….guess differences is what makes the world go round,

  • Tinawina

    You should tweet her that, if you feel strongly about it.

    Her opinion doesn’t have to be right in order for her to say it out loud.

  • Lynn Farris

    I agree with you regarding the legit media. I think it was the mean tweets and some blogs that were just cruel.

  • Disraeli99

    Jesus saw your performance, Carrie. And now he’s never coming back.

  • rbidol

    Thanks, milwlovesadam. And I do know exactly what you mean about people saying they’ll pray: it can be cheap, and it can be disrespectful. But it seems to me that that is not necessarily the intent, certainly not for someone in Carrie’s position right now who feels assaulted by viciousness. That’s why I think these conversations can be helpful if we are able to hear each other. I really appreciate it.

  • Dewayne Boyd

    LOL. Now you are affected by someone believing in Jesus? Ironically, that’s the same logic SOME Christians use to oppose gay marriage. “Your untraditional gay marriage affects our sacred institution.”

  • HermeticallySealed

    Telling people that they “need Jesus” so as to not be mean is the very definition of proselytizing. “Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.”

  • fuzzywuzzy

    If you read the entire passage, then you will realize that it is proselytizing. Whether anyone converts as a consequence isn’t the point. Proselytizing is the attempt to convert. I’ve been listening to Christmas Carols since before Thanksgiving and have done so my entire life. lol

  • fuzzywuzzy

    BTW, I’m starting to think that you “need Jesus”. lol

  • taylor

    BWAH! This thread could use a little snark! :)

  • rbidol

    But taylor, your response itself shows the strength of your convictions about pluralism, and it is certainly possible to have an honest conversation about those convictions. I am also a person of conviction. Maybe Carrie is too. Why should any of us be censored from sharing our convictions? What is needed, in my own opinion, is more conversation where we all recognize our convictions and are able to listen to others.

  • Disraeli99

    Jesus gave Carrie the wheel back after watching SOML.

  • wonderings

    I would have thought she’d have a thicker skin by now, even though YES she’s been very lucky compared to many idols & celebs. She’s been extremely successful, with great sales, sold-out tours, no “flop” albums, quite squeaky and clean, and happily married. She’s pretty and young and slim.

    Guessing this hurts because it’s the harshest criticism she’s received professionally?

    I’m not a fan of Carrie’s tweet in response to the criticism, but it’s sad that her sharing a thought/verse that seems to bring her comfort is only bringing her *more* criticism and scrutiny.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Nah. I only have twitter to follow a couple of people and don’t tweet. Plus, I’ve learned that it’s usually futile discussing this line of reasoning with people who are devoutly religious.

  • Bonnie DeMoss
  • WestiesRule

    I could give a rats a** about Twitter. I don’t get it and I think it’s stupid!!

  • wonderings

    Oh good grief, not the “haterz are jealous” defense.

  • Disraeli99

    IF I embrace Jesus as my savior, become a nun and pray on my knees for the rest of my life, Carrie’s performance as Maria in TSoML would STILL STINK.

    Selah.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    The difference is presumably that your heart would be so moved by pity for her that you wouldn’t say so.

    Actually, if you were a Roman Catholic nun, you’d be praying for St. Genesius to intercede on her behalf with God and get her some acting skillz.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    Joke if you want, but He’s my Savior and I Love Him.

  • Sassycatz

    I thought Carrie was in a very public profession in which the audience shows appreciation for a job well done by applauding, even if virtually, and one shows displeasure by booing. (I know, I know. People don’t boo anymore, except at refs during sporting events.) However, in the past the audience used to throw rotten produce at actors to show displeasure:

    A displeased crowd is throwing stuff at speakers and artists according to the Rule of Funny. Eggs, lettuce and vegetables are generally favored, with tomatoes an all-time favorite. Originates from way back in the 19th century, when audiences and working-class theatergoers would often carry these things into the (very rowdy by our standards) theaters, and chuck it (or chairs and such) at bad performances. Look for an Honest John-type character to have a cart filled with said rotten vegetables for sale for this particular purpose.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProducePelting

    So … Carrie should be thanking her lucky stars (or maybe Jesus) that she had the camera and TV screen between herself and some of her detractors.

    Remember, people who attend Carrie’s concerts are usually fans; people who watch a TV show based on a beloved story are not necessarily going to be Carrie’s care bears or whatever they were called. And they certainly have a right to give their opinions of an “actress’s” performance. After all, they *are* the audience. For whom else was she doing this?

    As for needing Jesus … that’s very, very personal and is between each viewer and their spiritual adviser … or not. After all, not everyone’s a Christian. And, I think, expressing displeasure at a TV performance is the absolute least of “bad” behavior requiring heavenly intervention in this world.

  • Disraeli99

    *fistbump*

    *wink*

  • WestiesRule

    After reading through this thread and thinking about it I can’t believe some lame a** musical (and bad as I watched it with my granddaughter who loved it but she’s 8) has caused such a furor. I’m glad I’m an atheist and all this Christian mumbo jumbo is about to make me puke but I’ll take the high road and laugh at it. Reminds me of witches casting spells. All in all I feel bad for Carrie. She has always seemed like such a genuinely nice, hardworking professional. So she took a chance and tanked. Like no one else has ever done this.

  • Bugme Nomor

    “live as servants of God…fear God, honor the king.
    Slaves, submit yourselves to your master”

    Because that’s what people who “live as free men” do…

  • Tess Herself

    Please define tank? The show had 18 million viewers, a very respectable 4.6 in the prime age category, ranked 1st for 21/2 hours of its 3 hour jaunt in that age category, was the most watched non athletic event on NBC in almost 10 years. She may have gotten “some” press about her lack of acting prowess, but her singing was, in the most part, well liked.

  • HermeticallySealed

    I’m sorry, but that is a horribly reasoned article. I know plenty of people who like Carrie’s singing; yet, still thought her acting was bad. Newsflash, you can dislike something/someone without being jealous. Sometimes people just don’t like something because they genuinely think it’s bad.

  • Tinawina

    Fair enough!

  • taylor

    The person who wrote this article is a big Carrie stan. It’s basically like pulling something off of The Examiner. From the author’s linked FB page: “Yay to my friend Carrie Underwood and my friend Maura’s son, Joe! Joe and Carrie, ENJOY THE PARTY!!!!!”

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    If I remember rightly, Peter’s writing in an era when Christians were suspected of stirring up rebellion and dissent, so his agenda is to be all “no, we are not going to upset the social order, nosirree, not us.”

    Both theologians and people on the pastoral side of church organizations don’t necessarily treat every word of the apostles’ letters as literally how we’re supposed to live now — and yes, they argue over it. Getting multiple Christian denominations to agree on anything — or even getting agreement within a big denomination like Roman Catholicism — is kind of like trying to train cats to nail Jell-o to the wall.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Reminder:

    I’m leaving be the bible verses that Carrie referred to. But deleting everything else. Please keep your comments on topic.

  • taylor

    “As for needing Jesus … that’s very, very personal and is between each viewer and their spiritual adviser … or not. After all, not everyone’s a Christian. And, I think, expressing displeasure at a TV performance is the absolute least of “bad” behavior requiring heavenly intervention in this world.”

    Very well said!

  • usedtobelucy

    Except that Jesus made it pretty clear that you don’t pray or announce your intention to pray, in the public square. It’s not the praying. The praying is good. It’s the announcement of the praying that went off the rails. The announcement declares that you have a special thing going on with God and the announcement is for public consumption. Jesus very clearly rejects that, in my opinion. (And, i repeat, I’m not condemning her. I get it. She was upset. She said something that seemed like a good idea at the time, and that partly was a good idea. I just hope she figures this out for next time. Because it’s not just good moral advice, it’s good practical advice, too.)

    Matthew 6, 6-7:

    “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to
    stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they
    may
    be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But
    you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray
    to your Father who is in secret.”

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    No self-respecting blogger who wants to be taken seriously would pull out the “haterz are jellus” card.

    It’s just plain childish. And not a reasonable argument.

  • Bentley1530

    I follow Audra McDonald on twitter and here is her response to a less than pleasant tweet:

    Audra McDonald ?@AudraEqualityMc
    “@dave44s: @AudraEqualityMc We turned it off after we saw a negro nun. No negro species in the Sound of Music.” Ok. 18,599,999 viewers then.

  • H.A.

    I like Carrie. I don’t follow her because she’s too bland for me but the last few days have been good for me. I tend to lean more towards artists that get people’s panties twisted because they bring out the best and worst in people. It opens up the door for discussions and opinions rather you agree or disagree which can be a good thing.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Good for Audra! Great response! lol

  • taylor

    Talk about offensive! What a perfect response, she’s a class act!

    Audra was AMAZING in SOML.

  • Disraeli99

    Boo-Yah!! That’s how ya shut ‘em down.

  • Disraeli99

    Makes Carrie’s tweet look and sound as rankly amateurish as her acting. Audra is one of the big dawgs lil’ pups like Carrie would do well to keep watching from under the porch. Gonna be a while before she’s able to run w/the likes of McDonald.
    #audrafortheemmy

  • milwlovesadam

    By and large, virtually every reviewer has praised Audra’s performance. She was a true highlight of the whole show. Her Climb Every Mountain was simply triumphant.

    Multi-ethnic casting has been a staple of shows for a long time. I remember some bruhaha over the casting of an Asian as Prince in Cinderella that was on TV in the 90′s.

    He was fantastic.

    #getoverit

  • taylor

    It highlights the level of hate that minorities of any kind, have been dealing with on sometimes a daily basis for years. It makes some criticism over acting skills look lame in comparison. Audra, being in the position she is in, knows of that other level of hate, by way of prejudices and bigotry.

  • milwlovesadam

    “I tend to lean more towards artists that get people’s panties twisted”

    OMG!! I know what you mean, I know who you follow, as I do too, but, can’t help laughing right now!!!

    Sorry, some humor was needed here, and you just provided it!! **wink*

  • taylor

    My twitter feed of theatre peeps was calling her a Goddess! :) Audra, Laura Benanti, Christian Borle were the stand outs on my feed. They also loved the young actors who played Liesl and Kurt. They have a future on the stage ahead of them!

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Surely, Audra, as an African American, has had more practice dealing with assholes online. She knows the drill, and how to handle it,

    But, I’m going to cut Carrie some slack here. It may be a new experience for her to check her twitter mentions and see horrible things.

    She’s in a position of privilege to be sure, but she’s only human, and still deserves compassion, imo.

    Maybe she was having a tough day and lost her temper for a second. It happens.

  • bridgette12

    Really Carrie, you think that people who think your a shitty actress need Jesus, well you need some self awareness and acting lessons. She comes across as being slightly surprised by people expressing their opinions of her lack of real talent in the acting field. on twitter. I wonder what exactly she expected, did she think because she was a nice person and she was giving it the ole college try, that she would get a break from harsh criticism. It’s twitter, that’s what people do and some of them are pretty vicious. If her feelings are hurt by something like this, then she should stay off of twitter and delude herself that she was actually good and all of these people are hating her performance without any legitimate reason.

  • taylor

    Oh, I’m SURE she has!

    Like many celebrities and artists, Carrie will learn that when you take a big risk, there are going to be haters. The bigger the risk, the more potential to succeed or fail, and that brings the critics out. Even if you end up getting high ratings or selling millions of singles and albums, a risky career move will often times be polarizing and the rewards will be a mixed bag. It’s the nature of the business.

  • maymay

    Internet is the hell place where people like to bully other people. There people like to say something over-terrible that they have no guts to say in real life. People take the freedom of speech for granted to abuse it. This internet culture should be blamed because it causes too many bad things, even sucide.

    As a celebrity, ignoring this kind of thing is the best way. But if you want to strike back, then it is what it is.

  • Carriefan1

    The “mean” and “good” people need Jesus.
    I’m glad Carrie isn’t ashamed to mention Jesus or prayer in a Twitter post.

  • http://kristentheyellowlab.blogspot.com/ ZsusK

    Oh man. :( Carrie was obviously heart-broken and shaken by the Twitter bullying she received. She responded by going to a place where she finds comfort… prayer. I’m as guilty as anyone of sometimes forgetting that celebrities are human beings with feelings. I’m sorry she read the cruel tweets. I’m not a believer, myself, but I respect her going to her place of comfort. I don’t think she was preaching, just acknowledging to herself that
    her response to cruelty is prayer.

    Criticism is fine and is part of the job. But, Twitter is out of control. People can tweet whatever they please to actors, musicians, athletes, politicians, writers, bloggers, all under the cover of an anonymous account. I can’t imagine what it’s like to receive tweets telling me to die. Or in the case of the poor Alabama field goal kicker, telling him that his mother deserved to be raped and his father shot in the head. Honestly, I think celebs should have screeners who keep that crap out of their sight.

  • bridgette12

    Hopefully she’s being realistic about her performance and not believing her yes men and friends that she was great. It just surprises me that she’s surprised by the response she got. Did she really believe deep down that she was ready for such a big role after having limited acting experience and a few months of lessons?

  • mmmtx

    I guess I am curious as to what bearing her political views have on any of this?

  • Lala3

    One word in response; Communism.

    Communism killed more people than any religion in the last 100 years. One of the main parts of Communism is atheism, yet they killed more people than any religion did in the last 100 years…and I am not that religious, but I know my history.

  • maymay

    The ratings increased from 4.3(8:00 p.m.) to 5(8:30 p.m.), and all night average ratings were 4.6. So I think viewers didn`t turn it off when they saw Audra McDonald who showed up on the first scene.

    From ratings increasing, it showed that viewers didn`t really hate this show. Most people just watched it with a moderate feeling and a reasonable mind.

  • Lala3

    …and she got many positive tweets. The candidate was Ron Paul.

    People on here seem to forget that the MAJORITY of contestants on Idol have been devout Christians. I don’t judge them for that…if I did, I would be a bigot.

    Too me it is no big deal. Just like I would’net care if someone is Jewish and they wished people a Happy Hanukkah, or if someone is Hindu and wishes someone a great Diwali. I would not “blow my top” and say “I wish they would stop doing that”. IMO that would seem narrow minded to do that.

  • Lala3

    So people can’t make fun of Obamacare?

  • mmmtx

    You have just clearly said what I’ve been thinking throughout my reading of this thread. I felt from the first time I read her tweet that she was talking about praying for those who were “mean” rather than responding in kind.

  • Lala3

    The majority of singing contestants are Christians and many come from the ‘church’. That is where they learn to sing in front of groups. The majority of the African-American, Southern, and Latino contestants on the singing shows come from religious backgrounds.

    In fact many of today’s top singers and performers came from religious backgrounds. Like Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, came from strict religious backgrounds, even though most people wouldn’t know it by their actions, and in their private life they are still believers.

  • Lala3

    Because if she was a conservative people would hate her.

  • mmmtx

    Where I disagree with you here is that I don’t think her words or her intent is to tell people “that they need to convert to her religion to be better people.”

  • Guest

    Bringing Jesus into it is so pathetic and not too bright. And even Jesus say her acting was lousy if he were still alive. Oh me, oh my!

  • Lala3

    Then people should not tweet about Islam, Judaism, Communism, Hinduism and every other belief on the planet because they all were against gays and gay marriage.

    Even though I believe that a person should be allowed to marry who they want, people don’t know what is going on in the rest of the world. In the majority of the world gay marriage is A NO-NO, and in fact the countries that are most tolerant towards gays today are ones with Christian majorities, compared to the others. In Islamic countries you cannot even be openly gay.

  • Forever21

    It’s funny how people tolerate pretty much all kinds of vitriol on the internet, but mention the name “Jesus” and they get so worked up about it.

  • Lala3

    lol…so true, especially from people who claim to be sooo tolerant. Many people who follow singing competition shows seem to forget that the majority of the contestants on these shows are devout Christians. Then they are SHOCKED…lol, when one of them mentions “Jesus”…lol

  • jpfan2

    I totally agree. People just turn into bullies on twitter for no reason. I think all the folks piling on Carrie should be kissing her butt for turning musical theatre into buffo TV.

  • Sassycatz

    How do you know they accept all kinds of vitriol? Carrie interjected religion into something that is not religious. I mean it’s a damn television show. So people didn’t like her performance. What a sin!!!!

  • bridgette12

    I think Carrie is so upset by the reaction by some of the viewers, falling back on her religion is not surprising. The strange thing about all of this, is considering the number of celebrities and friends who tweeted her their congrats and well wishes, she’s giving those who disliked her performance more acknowledgment than those who loved it. It seems like it’s hurt her to her core that all of her hard work is being made fun of and that she didn’t seem to understand that she could possibly fail at this.

  • Lala3

    How many posts are on this one blog?

    If it was no big deal…which it isn’t…than why so many anti-Cristian posts? To me it is not big deal, and really it shouldn’t be.

  • Larc

    He probably just looked at his paycheck and smiled. Maybe Carrie should have tried that.

  • jpfan2

    Carrie made the mistake of not using karma instead of Jesus. All Carrie needed to say is what goes around comes around and all would be cool

  • HermeticallySealed

    Really? From what I have seen they don’t tolerate the vitriol. In fact, it tends to just get passed back and forth.

  • Lala3

    I understand that, but why would it be a “mistake” to mention Jesus an then why would people start going on bigoted rants because she did?

    So people can’t mention Jesus? If you do than bigots will go off? That is not the answer.

  • bridgette12

    I would rather kiss her goodbye from never acting again, if that includes her ass or any other body part, it would be worth it..

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    she’s giving those who disliked her performance more acknowledgment than those who loved it.

    Which is the root of the bad idea here — thanking her supporters would have been the wiser move.

    Underwood may have expected that only people neutral or favorable toward the show would watch. That suggests a fairly high level of naivete — and that she completely missed the Sharknado phenomenon — but if she’s too busy and too nice to hate-watch herself, she could truly be surprised that people revel in it.

  • HermeticallySealed

    Anti-Christian? If that isn’t hyperbole… LoL

  • Forever21

    Yeah, because Jesus is more offensive than a Buddhist concept.

  • Lala3

    It is hyperbole to attack someone for being a Christian, like attacking someone for being a Jew, or attacking someone for being a Hindu, or attacking someone for being an atheist, or attacking someone for being a Muslim.

    Bigotry is still bigotry.

  • HermeticallySealed

    It’s not a mistake to mention Jesus. It was a bit (unintentionally, I’m sure) insulting though to insinuate that people needed to go to Jesus in order to be nice. Context is everything.

  • Sassycatz

    Why is criticizing Carrie equal to not being in touch with Jesus … according to Carrie.

  • HermeticallySealed

    LOL They aren’t attacking her for being Christian. People expressed irritation for her remarking that people needed Jesus in order to be nice. NOT the same thing.

  • DaisyMagnolia

    When those opinions include outright cruelty, I beg to differ.

  • Lala3

    …and that makes it right?

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    I hope she continues acting. And I bet the DVD sells well when it comes out on the 17th. So with great ratings and good DVD sales I’m sure she’ll get offers.

  • HermeticallySealed

    Did i say that?

  • Lala3

    It is term used in jest…but people have to have a sense of humor to get it, and not a heart full of bigotry.

  • DaisyMagnolia

    It doesn’t make it right, no one who is receiving it. It’s all cruel.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    For some reason, people get on Twitter and think it’s a license for bullying, and say the meanest things I have ever heard. I think people’s real personalities come out on Twitter because they can hide behind those anonymous profiles if they want.

  • listening

    That’s why I added and practiced what they preached some people can say they’re all godly and still act ugly. And we all know about people who can warp/twist the beliefs of their religion and do awful stuff. I’m just saying it’s more likely than not if you get a devote person who’s not just giving lip service they aren’t gonna act all nasty.

  • Sassycatz

    Well, maybe if that’s people’s real feelings than that should tell you something. Huh?

  • DaisyMagnolia

    No more arrogant than someone telling Carrie to go die.

  • MichaelGxo

    She tweeted something NON-SPECIFIC which infers she tweeted it to a wider audience than you are conveying. Saw no supposed ‘death threats’ reported. That is just silly and inane. Carrie is acting all full of herself. Her acting was one dimensional and ameuterish… and her ego allowed her to take this on…totally unprepared. She needs to accept it and move on…

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    Yeah it does. It tells me that there are people so evil that they will threaten your life over a TV musical.

  • Sassycatz

    That’s extreme. I just wish she’d never act again. How about that?

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    That’s just opinion. That’s not what I’m talking about.

  • bridgette12

    This is the first time that Carrie has had to deal with a lot of harsh criticism. She’s a superstar in her genre and maybe she thought that her singing talents would makeup for her inept acting skills. I don’t think in all of these months since this was announced and she was preparing for this production, that she or anyone around her was being honest about her progress as a actress. Maybe some of her yes men should have told her, this was a bad idea and if she fails, the hounds of hell could open up on her and she would end up getting her feelings hurt.

  • Sassycatz

    Well, that stuff is not here. I don’t follow Carrie. I love this play. I just don’t want her to screw up any more of the musicals I love. Just go back to your country music sweetie. I’m sure they’ll be giving you countless awards — quarterly — for your “endeavors.”

  • bridgette12

    As long as she can take the laughter and the criticism, then more power to her.

  • DaisyMagnolia

    Whether any of us think Carrie was ready for the role is beside the point. She was offered the role, she accepted it, she did her best. Being that Carrie has been very even keel throughout her career, she clearly understands and accepts constructive criticism. This has gone well beyond that.

    What Carrie thinks of her abilities doesn’t mean she deserves abuse just because someone didn’t enjoy her in the role.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    The people around Underwood knew that her name would bring ratings, whether she could act or not. From their perspective, it was a great idea.

    Since the ratings held up during the airing, it seems plenty of people basically liked the show (they can’t all have been hate-watchers) regardless of her weaknesses when not singing.

    If she’d made more progress, she might have won over more people, but it wasn’t in anybody’s best interests to stop the train once it was in motion. She really should put her attention on the praise, set aside the constructive criticism to review again when the dust has settled, and go have a nice vegan chocolate or whatever to help forget the haterz.

  • Bonnie DeMoss

    No, that stuff is not here. It’s on Twitter. The topic of this thread happened on Twitter.

  • DaisyMagnolia

    The conservation here was respectful.

    There’s room for all people of all beliefs. Carrie, and you, and me, and all of us.

  • Sassycatz

    I just can’t tolerate this interjection of religion into the criticism of a BAD actress on a television show. That was her choice and it was a bad move. It’s insufferable. Like her shit doesn’t stink. Lord. Accept the fact that you were over your head. Either take classes to improve or just go back to what you do best.

  • Miss Blue

    She didn’t mention a religion – she mentioned Jesus. As far as I know, He’s part of a lot of religions.

  • DaisyMagnolia

    You may not appreciate her acting, but I doubt Carrie was unprepared. Clearly, she rehearsed.

    Again, constructive criticism is a far cry from belittling and calling people names.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    She didn’t mention a religion – she mentioned Jesus. As far as I know, He’s part of a lot of religions.

    Wait, what? No. Jesus is “needed” only in Christianity. Islam recognizes his existence, but he’s not the point of the belief system. He may be mentioned in some very ancillary or apocryphal Jewish writings, but never as a figure of importance in one’s spiritual life. It’s only Christianity that’s Jesus-centered.

    Christianity has numerous denominations (Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, United Methodist, Episcopal… the list goes on and on and on and on and on) but they all consider themselves to be “Christian” (even while disagreeing on which of the other denominations qualify).

    That said, treating “Christian” as a unified history gets way messy; some of the livelier parts of history involved professed Christians of different sects slaughtering each other over heresies. So I’m not going to hold whatever Protestant denomination claims Underwood as responsible for, say, the Inquisition.

  • DaisyMagnolia

    Carrie has been criticized since her Idol days.

  • Montavilla

    His name is Paolo Montalban.

  • http://kristentheyellowlab.blogspot.com/ ZsusK

    I really hated Carrie’s performance. Real feelings, right there. Did I feel it was necessary to deliver that important news to Carrie Underwood personally via Twitter? Hell no! I’m not that big of an asshole. Yet, some sociopaths thought it was their duty to tell her that she needs to DIE for destroying their fantasy of Sound of Music perfection. Who is in the wrong here? The weirdos who requested Carrie die for not living up to their expectations, or Carrie for offering to pray for them? As an agnostic, I’m leaning towards the praying girl.

  • Niall

    Late to the party but I saw this tweet yesterday and never gave it a second thought. I read it and saw “mean people suck,” and I hardly expect Carrie Underwood to literally say it that way. I can’t work myself into a lather about this one.

  • Landon Cox

    Sorry Carrie he’s too busy taking the wheel.

  • Landon Cox

    That was the best because the king was white (Victor Garber) the queen was black (Whoopi Goldberg) and the prince was Asian; it made no sense but people freaked out about it for no reason.

  • hcpoirot

    I agree that celebs just should stop read all the twitters and responded cause usually there will be backslash.

    This is what technology resulted in. People who can tweets or comments some nasty things when in reality they did not had the guts to do that face to face.

    And this is also the major risk being a top celebrity. If you are D list celebs, even if you can act or cannot act, people will not bother to comment.

  • Sicola789

    Almost 80% of Americans are Christian and 92% believe in God according to recent research. I think its safe to say the majority of those who saw the tweet either didn’t care or liked what she said. With 8 out of 10 people believing in Jesus, it’s really just the small minority of people who are mad about her tweet. And of course, many atheists and agnostics have gone on record saying the tweet didn’t bother or offend them. Honestly, if just a tiny amount of people are offended by the tweet, then I don’t think it’s damaging.

    It’s also the small minority who think she did bad on TSOM. From what I have seen, the general consensus is Carrie did fine. Too bad those couple of haters have to ruin her morality.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    If you read the passage that she quoted, it is clearly proselytizing.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “You may not appreciate her acting, but I doubt Carrie was unprepared. Clearly, she rehearsed.”

    Clearly, despite her hard work and time, Carrie’s acting was inadequate, and that’s the bottom line. Musical theater professionals have devoted years/decades of hard work and training to develop their singing and acting skills to the level required for this demanding art form, and considering Carrie’s lack of acting experience, it was unrealistic to expect that a few weeks of rehearsal would be sufficient for Carrie to shine in this area. It is not unreasonable, however, to expect that the lead in a major production should be able to act at a professional level, and unfortunately, that was generally not achieved. Carrie will be fine though. She sang well, the play was a ratings success (largely due to her participation), and this event may have paved the way for future such telecasts.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I love your posts, Incipit, as I often learn so much from them (they frequently have me scurrying to Google lol ). In this case, I learned a great new term, “rectalgia”. lol

  • Disraeli99

    IMO people aren’t upset at her for using Jesus in a post. They are upset at her because she assumes the critics are people who dislike her personally and are bad people, hence they must be prayed for. That is just egotistical bullshit. If a teacher gives me a bad grade on something subjective, yes, they could be being an asshole or more likely, I didn’t study or am not very good at what I am attempting. So I need to study or work harder or maybe it’s something I am never going to be good at and I should forget it.

    Telling someone you want to pray for them is just a passive-aggressive pu**y defense. Unless you just found out they lost
    their job or have cancer.

  • september21

    Wow. I haven’t followed this at all. I saw the clips of the show before hand and can’t stand the nasally voice. I didn’t want to ruin my childhood memory of the movie. I can barely watch football for 3 hours – no way was I going to watch this.
    So, why reply to twitter at all? PR told her too? Wouldn’t a funny reply be better like, Sorry I ruined your life, I’ll work on it.
    Heck, I didn’t even read the negative tweets etc….were they Taylor Swift fans?
    I bet Carries bank account isn’t affected, she’ll still have perfect white teeth and flawless skin. And she’ll probably get a bunch of awards for it anyway. Award is her middle name(not her “last name”). And, she’ll still be the best dressed on the red carpets. Carrie on!

  • bridgette12

    She should have left it alone. Someone criticizing you is not about whether they are a believer, it’s about someone else giving their opinion. I’m pretty sure when she was criticized by label execs or music critics in the past, she didn’t tweet them about people needing Jesus.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Whether Carrie was ready for the role was determined by her performance, and clearly “her best” wasn’t good enough. Whether it was because of inadequate rehearsal time, lack of experience and/or lack of inherent acting talent doesn’t matter. This event required a level of professional acting that Carrie was unable to deliver.

    It’s easy to dismiss overly harsh comments from “haters”, but when legit critics and even many of her own fans expressed disappointment in her acting, then that’s something more difficult to dismiss. No one “deserves” the kind of vicious comments that Carrie received, but she’s a big girl and took on a challenge that in some ways overwhelmed her abilities, and unintentionally gave those “haters” some ammunition for some of their nasty comments. At some point, I hope that she’s able to step back and assess where she succeeded and where she was less than successful, as this will be helpful in making any further such endeavors much more worthy of
    praise and respect.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “It just surprises me that she’s surprised by the response she got. Did she really believe deep down that she was ready for such a big role after having limited acting experience and a few months of lessons?”

    I’m not sure whether Carrie was surprised by the criticism of her acting, or surprised by the level of harshness (and “snarkiness”?) of the responses to her performance (or both?). It’s hard to know exactly to whom her tweet was directed.

  • maymay

    “They are upset at her because she assumes the critics are people who dislike her personally and are bad people, hence they must be prayed for.”

    But the so called Carrie`s assumption is your own assumption. People never know if she assumes “the critics are people who dislike her personally and are bad people, hence they must be prayed for.”

    Anyway. everybody has a different feeling for Carrie using Jesus. So I guess the assumption you make is your personal feeling.

    My feeling is Carrie using Jesus is a typical Christian usually does no matter she or he faces anything. Annoying? Maybe. But the US is a Christian country. So it is what it is everyday and everywhere.

  • bridgette12

    No one deserve abuse, but all of these stars get it. It’s up to the star to figure out how to handle it. If she’s gotten death threats then she joins a long list of stars who get them everyday and none of them, just like Carrie deserves it. Carrie voluntarily took this role and even though she did her best, she showed on national television, that she wasn’t ready or skilled enough for the role of Maria.

  • Disraeli99

    IMO most people, religious or not, get irritated when people use religion or religious figures in a lame attempt to admonish others. No one is
    burning a cross on Carrie’s lawn. No one is persecuting her because some people think she played a part poorly, so for her to act like people who say, “You know what, I didn’t like what you
    did there” is some sort of grievous sin that can only be rectified by seeking religion is not only laughable but that’s not the point of religion anyway. Religion is suppose to enlighten, not make you a zombie who can’t form an opinion or not like something.

    The people talking shit about Carrie are doing just that – talking. Carrie should certainly be used to not pleasing everyone, as she’s been a public figure for a few years now. If not, then it’s about time her bubble was burst and she was awakened to reality.

  • bridgette12

    I thinking it was the level of harshness and the laughter at her performance. This is probably the first time in her career that people wasn’t all complimentary or appreciative of her efforts to get ready for the role of Maria.

  • bridgette12

    Of course people were just talking. She wasn’t on stage torturing small animals, just doing a crappy job as a actress.

  • Disraeli99

    Who says the US is a “Christian” country? If some of these so called Christians in this so called “Christian” country met the actual Jesus of
    the Gospels — a dark-skinned Middle Eastern socialist — they’d nail him to a tree or deport him.

    Where in the bible does it say that no one any where
    shouldn’t express their opinion? Does it say anything in there about
    “Christians” being above criticism regarding something that has nothing to
    do with their religion? Doesn’t the Bible in fact say that people
    should turn the other cheek when people are “meanies”? Yup, I think it
    does.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Maybe, this was a case of Carrie’s own assessment of her performance being at odds with the criticism that she received. The director stated that the criticism of her acting was unwarranted, so perhaps Carrie believed that.

    Q. Have you read the reviews?

    A. I have read a couple of them. Very mixed. Any of the negative reviews that I’ve read on Carrie I think are pretty unfounded, honestly. I feel like she created a little character for herself. I think it was a lose-lose situation for her because I think everyone had such memories of Julie Andrews. I think it’s so hard to try to recreate such an iconic role, but I was blown away by her, and I’ve never seen anyone work harder in my life.

    http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/sound-of-music-director-on-what-went-right-and-wrong/?smid=fb-share&_r=2

    Regardless, I’m surprised that Carrie was hurt enough to tweet what she did. All that did was make her look sanctimonious, delight those “haters” in confirming that they managed to get under her skin and extend the twitter battles/nonsense even more. A no win situation.

  • maymay

    Roughly, the US is a Christian country, not everone but many people.

    Just I had said a typical Christian usually uses Jesus or whatever no matter she or he faces anything. It is a beliver`s habit.

    But the US is also a liberal country so the religion always has a conflict with the liberalism.

  • chillj

    The internet, overall, has never been a particularly kind place.

  • chillj

    I think celebrities, if they have an important role to play, should speak up when they encounter wrong or cruelty, no matter how trivial, because there are people who do not connect their action with reaction or hurt. Celebrities, at least most of them, are human. ; they feel pain. They can say so if they need to.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Who says the US is a “Christian” country?”

    I think that by “Christian”, this simply means the “minimum” designation as a person who believes in Jesus Christ as their deity. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything in regard to their behavior.

  • maymay

    But the label is not a hater. If Carrie was hated by the label, she could have left.

    On internet some people give their opinions but some people give their shits. A opinion is different from a shit.

    Anyway no matter opinions or shits, being a high profile celebrity, she or he better deal it with being cool.

  • chillj

    I didn’t watch the Sound of Music because I once worked with a developmentally disabled man who had me watch the movie with him once a week. I can’t bear it. But from anything I have read, Carrie showed remarkable courage in even assuming this part, and received a lot of criticism before she even attempted it. Criticism is to be expected, but people really need to temper the cruelty. What is the point? She gets to answer it as she wishes, and if she thinks an injection of faith would be beneficial to the mean, she has every right to say so. Even those who do not believe in a Christian god would probably acknowledge the historical Jesus, if alive, would discourage taking to Twitter to heap abuse on another human being.

  • Tess Herself

    But from all I have read on comment boards she doesn’t have a right to answer the mean in her own way. The consensus of many is that, as a public figure, she is insulting “mean” people by insinuating that they may need a religious slap on the wrist whether they are currently practicing Christians or not.

  • chillj

    Actually, there are many nominal Christians, including me, who appreciate Christ’s message, without believing in him as a deity. This country is predominantly a Christian country, historically, and that can not be denied, no matter ones opinion of living Christians. People tend to associate Christianity with Fundamentalists or Evangelicals or Catholics only, and there are great masses of Christians who do not now and never did believe in a literal Bible. People, including myself, are mostly majorly ignorant with respect to every major religion.

  • Disraeli99

    LOL… I knew exactly what was meant… Forgive me, mini rant ahead… got to let it go before carrying on with my Sunday follies, lol…That “Christian nation” terminology is very loaded, in the same sense as “states rights” has some negative connotations for certain groups of Americans whose civil, human and basic rights to life have been marginalized or even taken away. I submit that the term “Christian” nation is a gross misnomer to ever be applied to the US when looking at some very un-Christianlike behaviors, policies and practices perpetrated against its own citizens in the past and right up to current day. Mini-rant over. Still like Carrie as a singer – but her acting still stinks.

  • chillj

    No it does not conflict with liberalism; that is opinion, not based on religious works. The historical Jesus was about reaching out in love and helping the poor, about tolerance; you are confusing the church with religion. You might note that religion propelled the anti-slavery and civil rights movement in this country, just as the religious have focused attention on those suffering in poverty and charitable organizations.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    In a nutshell. I’m not sure how encompassing Carrie’s tweet is supposed to be, but playing the Jesus card (or any religious card) can come across as sanctimonious, and give the impression of dismissing the sentiments of the “mean people” as invalid.

    In this case, however, Carrie’s acting was poor enough to be a source of major criticism from legit reviewers and even many fans, as well as “mean people” on Twitter. It’s easy and reasonable to ignore sentiments expressed hyperbolically by bona fide “haters”, but when legit critics and even many of one’s own fans recognize the same problem, then I would hope that such criticisms would be taken more seriously.

    It was a big risk for Carrie to undertake this role, given her lack of experience as an actress, and although I never expected her to come close to Julie Andrews’ legendary portrayal of Maria, it’s reasonable to expect a professional level performance from anyone cast in this role, especially for such a major event. I felt that Carrie met the vocal demands of the show well, but the acting demands of this role were clearly beyond the level of her current abilities. I can only surmise that the acting demands were underestimated (or Carrie’s abilities were overestimated), and consequently, her acting was lacking and amateurish. With such a lack of experience, and so little rehearsal time, it was unlikely that Carrie would be able to deliver a great acting performance, but I think that many were unpleasantly surprised that her acting was as poor as it was. I hope that Carrie realizes this (it’s very hard to be objective about yourself), and doesn’t allow the sycophants to persuade otherwise. Carrie’s appearance in this event wasn’t a total failure, but recognizing her shortcomings and improving in those areas will go a long way in making any future such appearances more enjoyable, laudable and respected.

    The best thing about the SOML event was that it introduced so many people to live musical theater, many of whom would never have experienced it otherwise. Hopefully, it inspired and impressed many young people across the country about musical theater as an art form. It exposed outstanding musical theater performers (Audra, Laura, Christian) and promising newcomers to a wide audience, and I hope, opened the door for future such telecasts.

  • chillj

    They get to be nasty in their own way; she gets to answer in her own way.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    And people get to express their opinions on both.

  • chillj

    Yup.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Right. There is a large “sliding scale” regarding the diversity of behavior and level of belief within the “designation” of being “Christian”.

    “Actually, there are many nominal Christians, including me, who appreciate Christ’s message, without believing in him as a deity.”

    But then (as I understand it), you really aren’t a “Christian”, since believing in Jesus as a deity is a requirement of being a Christian. Am I incorrect in this?

  • chillj

    I meet many people who think Jesus must be believed in as a deity, as you say. Most once were Roman Catholic; many are now atheists. Believing Christ actually LIVED is helpful to a Christian, as is reaching out to the afflicted, and helping the weak, but a belief in a Jesus God is not necessary, even according to mainstream ministers I had as a child; there are endless varieties of belief within Christian communities and among scholars. No Christian I ever knew growing up believed in Christ’s divinity or a literal Bible – not a one. Jews believe he is a prophet; so do many Christians. (And I think the necessity of inventing a “virgin” Mary is needlessly undermining and insulting to women. I never saw a problem with natural birth and so never believed in the virgin mother. People do get a vote on this stuff. ) For many Christians, it just means trying to live as he did (or is reported to). That is all.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Thanks. Very interesting, but also provocative (at least for me). This runs completely contrary to my own experiences in attending church and the Christians who I have known/encountered in my life. I can understand not believing in the Bible literally, but never heard that Christians are not “required” to believe in Jesus as a deity.

  • chillj

    Anyone ever tell you it was a requirement? I think it is often assumed from the father, son, holy ghost stuff, about which separation – or not -there are many different beliefs. Christianity, over the course of my lifetime, has become far more fundamentalist than it was in the environment in which I grew up – which was pretty loosely mainstream protestant and you got to believe whatever the heck you wanted. Also, the term “Christian” started in the eighties referring to one group of them, who sort of said they were Christians and the other group wasn’t. They actually don’t get to do that, but now everyone thinks that is what a “Christian” is. It is all marketing. A Christian is very simply a follower of Christ; all the other implications are man-made.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Anyone ever tell you it was a requirement?”

    Ministers and Christians who I knew/met. Plus, what’s written in the Bible. Pretty much everyone and everything that I read. lol

    “Also, the term “Christian” started in the eighties referring to one group of them, who sort of said they were Christians and the other group wasn’t.”

    Interesting. I guess that I’ve “believed” the marketing then. lol

    ETA: How do you reconcile so much of what is written in the Bible with not being “required” to believe in Jesus as a deity?

  • Indigobunting

    Wow, I knew when I tuned in to SOM while switching channels for 10 minutes that this would be a topic for conversation (since- at least in the 10 min. I watched- Carrie’s acting skills were subpar). But I thought it would mostly exist in the Idol blogosphere and not blow up like this.

    I’m very sensitive to preachy evangelical types spouting off (my family is full of them), but I don’t think Carrie meant her tweet as such. For many, and especially in the South, ‘Jesus’ is more than religion and is almost synonymous with tolerance, love, etc. I doubt she meant to insinuate that
    non-Christians are mean in any way.

    However, I am surprised she even responded at all-when you are at the level she’s at you have to take the bad with the good. And nothing positive comes from being thin-skinned -ignore the vitriol of stupid people with too much time on their insecure hands tweeting hateful things at people they don’t even know.

  • jpfan2

    Unfortunately that’s one problem with twitter. Celebrities because they’re famous have to put up with some incredibly mean comments but get slammed if they respond. If folks tweeted the nasty comments to regular folks they’d be looked at as bullies. But when it’s a celeb, it’s open season. I don’t argue with that but It does set up lose/lose situations for the celebs involved.

    I was surprised Carrie responded but I guess the negativty got to her. It actually makes me like her more and I was never a fan of hers. I think the negativity directed at Carrie may actually create more sympathy for her among the general population.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Anyone ever tell you it was a requirement?

    Check out the official doctrine of the mainstream Christian denominations, and you’ll find “divinity of Christ” as the central tenet. This is easy to research [ETA: from the denominations' official web sites, not Wikipedia].

    Unitarians don’t believe it, but Unitarians are far enough off the mark for Christian doctrines that you’ll find the Trinitarian (Catholic and mainline Protestant) denominations refusing to accept Unitarian baptisms as valid, so I wouldn’t take Unitarian doctrine as “typical” for the range of Christianity. (If you want sheer numbers of believers, you’re stuck with Roman Catholicism, where Jesus definitely has a divine element.)

  • chillj

    Yeah. I think the way she responded made her look a little condescending and self-righteous, but I think it really indicates how deeply hurt she was by the comments. It got to her.

  • jpfan2

    Carrie always came across as a tad robotic to me but I guess she’s human. The comments got to her.
    It’s a shame because the SOM was a big win for NBC and musical theatre.fans.

  • chillj

    Hey, you can believe Christ came to save humanity without believing he is god himself. People think similarly of Mandela, yet have no problem separating out the his being a man (the talking heads just referenced this); he retained his humanity. Retaining his humanity was Christ’s big feature.

    There are parts of the Bible I can deal with and parts I can not: I tried reading the Old Testament and could never figure out why anyone would believe in such a mean god. I got nightmares and frankly did not want to deal with the punitive god described; I saw the old testament as a social system written in a way to be meaningful to the people of the time.

    Christianity is more concerned with the new testament anyway, some of which is probably fairly accurate and some of which probably isn’t. You get to take what you want from a message, without having to believe all of any authority’s proclamations about it. Or any writer’s. (It might, however, limit the choice of churches you subscribe to. Heh.) The message of the man was a good one; why does he need to be god, too?

  • chillj

    There is a lot of parsing among Christian subsets. I never read anything religious that told me Jesus was God. It said he was divine, partook of god, but the same can be said of all of us. Great philosophers did a lot of parsing, so you can’t trust Wikipedia. He came to save humanity; how divine he was changes with sects and/or religious authorities.

  • Niall

    Disliking Underwood’s performance and saying so here? Not being a bad person. Saying it TO her on Twitter or Facebook, or engaging in hate watching as a former cast member, with a major magazine like, oh, Vanity Fair, riding shotgun? Well, there’s room to say those people are at minimum mean spirited when they get a social media account. I picture all of those who were directly rude or hateful to Carrie, who then turned off their computer and started decorating their Christmas tree or helping their kids do homework as if nothing of significance occurred. Those are the people who she is hurt by, and this was her version of “mean people suck.” Like I posted yesterday, I thought nothing off the original tweet beyond “ah something finally got to her.” I suspect, as was the case with the hatred of SOM, that the outrage over her response is confined to a small but frothing segment of the Internet. My family who watched the show knew nothing of the Carrie-casting controversy, knew nothing about Underwood beyond her being a huge country star, and didn’t make one negative comment about her or the show. They just enjoyed the music. I’ll bet that’s how it went down in most households without a resident SNL character like Jebidiah the critic.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    The best part is that now the twitter account of that a**hole has been suspended. Audra for the win! lol

  • Guest

    Carrie should of been silent. Why even respond. Now her tweet is the hot topic… over 4,600 comments:

    http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/carrie-underwood-responds-to–sound-of-music–haters-221834249.html

  • Tess Herself

    18 million peeps watched the show and maybe 10k comments, counting all the web sites, referencing the tweet. My calculator won’t even give me a percentage for those numbers…and if we factor the 300 million peeps in the US the percentage doesn’t even register. Don’t think the tweet will even cause a hiccup in her career.

  • chillj

    Maybe celebrities need to set an example and quit Twiiter. Doesn’t seem to have much value and it has a whole lot of downside.

  • johnkay

    If people are shocked the artist who sings Jesus Take the Wheel isn’t religious they needs some sort of therapy.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Maybe celebrities need to set an example and quit Twiiter.

    Twitter would implode. Management would probably pay celebrities to stay, since it was the flood of celebrities to Twitter that fueled its growth.

    The only sane way to use the dratted thing as a celeb is to tweet without reading most @ replies. Have an intern do that dirty work and give you a synopsis, if you even care. So as far “connecting” to fans — what it’s vaunted for — it’s actually kinda lame. If you really connect and pay attention to fans, you discover people are nuts. If you protect yourself from the nutsiness, you aren’t really connecting; you just have a free-ish PR outlet that you control without a reporter intervening to spin or skew your message. (That’s nothing to sneeze at, of course, plus it’s still widely believed that the secret to success is making fans insanely devoted to you in a stalkerish way.)

    In Underwood’s case, letting the intern handle the @ replies was probably the way to go. She got the ratings; she got praise from people she respects.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Reminder:

    Comments on other websites? NOT the topic.

  • chillj

    My position has always been that if you don’t need to be represented by a PR firm, you don’t need Twitter. Celebrities use it for marketing, but I’m sure some must loathe the requirement. I doubt Twitter will last indefinitely; those that leave now could be out in front of the curve! I think Twitter just encourages too much impulse texting; even congressmen can’t handle it. Yup, The Twitter owners should be paying celebs to use it, because for sure they have a big vested interest in promoting its use. And yeah, the famous should hire people – but if it were me on a down day, I would be tempted to look. Dangerous stuff.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    What if your teacher took you to task in front of the classroom, after which your classmates decided it would be hilarious to gang up on you on their twitter and facebook accounts? What if your twitter mentions were full of tweets mocking your performance in class? Would you feel you deserved it? Would you be able to keep yourself from responding?

    Because, that’s what I think is going on here with Carrie. She’s not responding to critics. Her music has gotten bad reviews before, and she’s never lashed out because of it.

    She’s responding to the anonymous and mean spirited people who have attacked her online.

  • HermeticallySealed

    In all actuality, the early Christian cults were pretty divided on Christ’s true nature, with some believing he was merely a man born of divine intervention, and others that he was God made flesh. Besides deciding on which testaments would be compiled into the bible, the first Council of Nicaea also debated on Christ’s nature, coming to the final judgement that he was indeed divine in nature.

  • standtotheright

    Basically, the person who creates a Twitter client that allows one to tailor one’s mention feed into a rules-and-selection-based whitelist (people with 5000+ followers generally don’t threaten violence towards others without consequence) is going to make a fortune off celebrities, get bought out, and become a millionaire.

    In the meantime, the ants aren’t worth it and the best thing to do is not to respond.

    But really: The people who hate-watched did it to amuse themselves, so they got what they wanted out of the show. Why go after the celebrity for giving them exactly what they wanted?

  • standtotheright

    How does her presence in a show “screw up” the musicals you love? You’ve seen them before. You know what you like from a performance. She’s not going to be stealth cast in another one, so you’ll have the chance to avoid her if her acting is so unpleasant to you.

    She has the power to attract eyeballs. She doesn’t have the power to force people to watch who don’t care for her (unless one is a media critic, and even then, it’s the publication making the critic watch, not her personally).

  • standtotheright

    I still totally watch the Brandy Cinderella. Norwood wasn’t the world’s greatest actress either, but in the pre-Twitter era, she didn’t get the same haterade. Then again, the entire show was pretty lulzy.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    My position has always been that if you don’t need to be represented by a PR firm, you don’t need Twitter.

    Ironically, it’s the musicians and such who aren’t at the PR-firm-hiring level who probably get the most actual benefit out of Twitter, though that’s very difficult to document. They’re too small to attract a lot of nastiness and they use it to reach fans they otherwise couldn’t afford to contact.

    The temptation to look is why I don’t criticize celebs who come out with “get thee behind me, Satan!” language. In the language of many Christian denominations, the temptation to look at the nastiness is exactly the sort of thing the devil would revel in.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that twitter is useful to celebrities for promotional purposes and to shoot down gossip/rumors, but not to get too close to their fans/followers. So, I understand celebs using it for that purpose, but as Eilonwy posted:
    “If you really connect and pay attention to fans, you discover people are nuts.”

    Not a good idea at all.

  • girlygirl

    It’s not just twitter — the internet as a whole encourages that kind of behavior because people can hide behind anonymity. Check out the comments section of any article, for example, and you will see a ton of hateful comments. Twitter has the ability to “block” people, which is the way that most deal with not having to see hateful tweets, but in the case of celebs who receive thousands of tweets a day, something more effective needs to be come up with.

    There have been celebs who have left twitter. Others have accounts but they are run by their management team, so they probably rarely read their feeds. Twitter can be fun and can help connect with fans, but it also comes with a great big helping of crazy and hatefulness. Carrie may have to decide if she wants to put up with all of that.

  • standtotheright

    The problem is that far too many people can’t draw a distinction between “I didn’t like what you did there” and “You have destroyed the entire world by not being the best actress in a production, you overreaching snot-bucket, and there aren’t enough Upworthy videos on the internet to take away the black hole in my heart that you, personally, created by performing below expectations (and somehow also robbing me of my free will to stop watching). Please get cancer.”

    We’ll never know if she would have responded better if all the criticism had come from professionals, but past history of her (lack of) responses to sometimes less-than-flattering reviews of her albums suggests she likely would have taken a more prudent course.

    I’m not excusing her from not keeping her mouth shut this time. It was unwise and kept the cycle going. But this idea that she just can’t handle *any* criticism doesn’t track with past behavior.

  • DragonFly

    No one wants their children, mother/father, husband/wife subjected to being a human punching bag from annonymous nobodys & becoming a bloody sport if even w/words. Someone needs to tackle this one—can’t believe it falls safely under a 1st amendment right when people are free to play so rough. There are key words that should highlight bullying & death threats. This should not be tolerated & I don’t believe it can’t be more controlled.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “Check out the official doctrine of the mainstream Christian denominations, and you’ll find “divinity of Christ” as the central tenet. This is easy to research [ETA: from the denominations' official web sites, not Wikipedia].”

    Yes, that’s been my understanding all along.

  • DragonFly

    Agree to all except I will say that I get much enjoyment from random fans tweeting about the celebs music, their charitable acts, shows they did, hard work being appreciated & even “gushy” comments re. their looks or family life. Twitter imo (even not being a signed-up part of it) has it’s benefits even if people pass-on occasional negative comments to the celeb if they are gentle about it It just can’t continue as a senseless bullying tool even in our every day world.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Well, as I posted earlier, the asshat who tweeted that offensive tweet to Audra has had their account suspended.

    https://twitter.com/AudraEqualityMc/status/409385809960517632

    I don’t know if Twitter can ban certain IP addresses from having an account, but if message boards can have different levels of banning, I imagine that twitter can too. It seems to me that sending death threats to anyone would be grounds for permanent banning.

  • Carriefan1

    Jesus is and will always be God. They are the same. Jesus is just the human version of God so that we Humans have someone that is more easy to relate to .

  • DragonFly

    It’s probably an incredible task to even attempt to halt some of this but I believe the day is coming. I too have seen some unbelievabe threats making it to print. Just missed comments during the news the other day re. talks of curbing some of this internet bullying—damn, no radio replay available lol, but I think it wiould have no trouble being supported if someone comes up w/somthing that would rain on “basement dweller’s, being the nice term” free entertainment. Enjoying the good of Internet discussion but totally sick of the ugly side of it.

  • standtotheright

    Twitter’s TOS and the administration thereof are (IMO, far too) lenient when it comes to removable content. This was high-profile and egregious, but they generally don’t suspend without those two things in place.

    Maybe that’s because the founders themselves were (by Valleywag reports, at least) kind of asshats.

    To be fair, I also think the admins want to avoid potential legal action and think a lighter hand is a surer defense against being responsible for threats.

  • DragonFly

    Kind of get that impression myself.

  • taylor

    People are trying to tackle it, but more in how it is impacting children and teens. Some of them don’t have a support system to fall back on and their brains haven’t matured enough for them to even have the ability to put things in perspective. Their brains aren’t at the level yet of seeing the “bigger picture”. That’s why there are programs such as the It’s Get Better Campaign or The Trevor Project. Imagine being a teenager who is rejected by your mother, father, or both AND having to face verbal, and many time physical abuse, from your classmates and the world around you. The administration and teachers are often times part of the problem. These teens can’t get away from the abuse and rejection and that’s why we were seeing the rash of suicides in teens as social media became even more prevalent.

  • Bentley1530

    Good point, that production of Cinderella was full of stunt casting but because it was in the pre social media era and it does not carry the weight of being one of the most beloved movie musicals of all time, it did not get the hate or the buzz of this production.

  • Disraeli99

    Please… She was on American Idol so she should be used to getting judged. It seems like she is only pissed off this time because people think she sucked. If she didn’t want to be judged poorly then
    perhaps she should have made sure she could act BEFORE agreeing to do so on LIVE television. She surely can’t or couldn’t be THAT naive and be in the business as long as she has, right? She opened herself up for these slings and arrows. It’s unfortunate there are the usual assholes and psychos who take it too far, but that’s part of the bad you gotta take with the good. Time for Carrie to pull up the big girl panties and get on with it.

  • Disraeli99

    I find it all amusing as hell – the trainwreck of a live show, the expected positive and negative responses and discussions resulting from said trainwreck… when it all comes down to it, it’s meaningless as hell. I mean, who REALLY gives a toss about a GENERIC reality star alum/country music star headlining a PLAY on TV? Some liked it, some not, some don’t give a damn. After today, I’ll no doubt be behind door number three :)

  • jan

    This is all a tempest in a teapot. She’s human – she was upset. She probably shouldn’t have said anything – but what she said is in total alignment with her character and who she is – no shock there.

    Carrie proved she has the star power to draw an audience of 18 million. The network is ecstatic. Advertisers have taken notice. She has support from other artists and fellow performers. Her fanbase loves her. She comes out of this ahead.

    Everything else is small potatoes.

  • usedtobelucy

    Bottom line: If Carrie would simply not have responded to negativity, nobody would be scrutinizing her and bitching about her now.

    If you ignore rotten comments, people pretty quickly stop focusing on the whole incident, and what focus there is will be on the jerkiness of the rotten commenters.

    If you respond — especially with a response that implies you’re having *any* level of emotional reaction — you immediately call attention to the situation and to the comments. And you are basically asking for the attention and the scrutiny to shift to you.

    I remain amazed that she hasn’t had serious social media training that pounds that commonsense principle into her head.

    It’s always a better idea to let other people defend you. And in this case, people did — and would have — to the extent required, which isn’t a very great extent because the “haters” are just silly pissy ignorant people with too much time on their hands.

    And while young kids aren’t equipped to handle bullying and such in a sensible way — online or off — adult celebrities had better be.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Celebrities are flesh and blood, just like you and me. It still hurts to be mocked and vilified, no matter the circumstances.

    She was on American Idol so she should be used to getting judged.

    She IS used to being judged! She was called wooden, and robotic when she was on Idol Her albums have received poor reviews. Her red carpet outfits have been criticized in the press. She’s endured all sorts of criticism over the years WITHOUT lashing out!

    But it appears the level of OTT vitriol she’s had to endure LIKELY IN HER OWN TWITTER MENTIONS is unprecedented. She had a momentary lapse and tweeted, which she’s probably regretting. It happens. AGAIN She’s only HUMAN.

    You never answered my question. As a blogger, I’ve been the target of ugly twitter mentions. And although I am fully aware that when I put my opinions out on the internet for thousands to read, I’m setting myself up for criticism, it’s STILL hard not to respond to ugly mentions. I’m totally cutting Carrie slack on this one.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Reminder:

    Any declarations akin to “My religion is true yours is not” or anything similarly disrespectful will be deleted. If you persist, I am going to ban you.

  • Disraeli99

    To answer your question? Yeah, I think if I were at her level of stardom, as insulated from the real world as she and others on her level appear to be – – I personally would not give 2 shits what a few relative nobodies on twitter had to say about my performance. Raging insecurity and that need to be liked are IMO at the core of most problems folk like Carrie have when engaging on Twitter in this manner – Why is she even stooping to respond to what most folk w/common sense know is a no win sitch for her? She’s rich and insulated enough to pay a few flunkies to give those shits I wouldn’t be bothered to give if I were her. And throwing Jesus into the mix? No one gave her the memo on Idol that giving your opinion on religion is a dicey proposition?

  • usedtobelucy

    That’s what it is, all right.

  • Disraeli99

    Well said – especially the part re: social media training, or lack thereof, lol

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    I remain amazed that she hasn’t had serious social media training that pounds that commonsense principle into her head.

    Of course she’s had media training. She’s been in show business since 2005, enduring all sorts of slings and arrows. She was called robotic and wooden when she was on Idol. Her red carpet outfits have been criticized. Her albums have received bad reviews. She’s never lashed out before this.

    It was a lapse. Maybe reading through her twitter mentions became too much. Or she was in a bad mood. It takes two seconds to send out a tweet. She’s probably regretting it now. She’s only human.

  • bridgette12

    But one small problem, in spite of the great ratings, support from friends and family, she’s upset over what viewers are saying about her and her performance on twitter, because it only reinforces what the critics said about her acting.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    Welp. Good for you. I’ll just say, having been there, it’s more difficult than you think.

    She’s ignored most of the criticism she’s received over the years. She’s been on twitter for a couple of years now, and has never called out haters. It was a lapse. It leads me to believe the response was from more than “a few relative nobodies.”

    I’m sure she’s learned her lesson. She’ll probably stop looking at her mentions for awhile and move on.

  • http://www.mjsbigblog.com/ mjsbigblog

    she’s upset over what viewers are saying about her and her performance on twitter

    I have a feeling she’s upset over some of the nastier responses. Not what they said, but how they said it.

    Like Jan said, a tempest in a very small teapot. She’ll get over it, to eventually savor her success. Because in the end, she did not fail.

    Carrie proved she has the star power to draw an audience of 18 million. The network is ecstatic. Advertisers have taken notice. She has support from other artists and fellow performers. Her fanbase loves her. She comes out of this ahead.

    She’s not going to be nominated for an emmy for her performance, to say the least. But yes, she still comes out of this experience ahead.

  • usedtobelucy

    I agree.

    At this stage of the game, though, I’m just surprised that somebody at Carrie’s level of fame hasn’t had social-media coaches demand that she never post a tweet while in an agitated or upset state of mind. And demand that she simply not read the bad stuff or respond to it in any way shape or form.

    I suppose maybe somebody has and she just hasn’t listened to them, but Carrie being Carrie, I’d think she would have listened, if somebody had really made an issue of this.

    Yeah, it’s just a lapse. I’m completely with you there, and I don’t think the particular thing she said was a big deal.

    But I’m still surprised — not just in this instance, of course — that people in her position still feel as if it’s okay to respond to the public via Twitter or tweet when they’re in some kind of emotional state. Most have been well coached not to say anything that comes into their heads when there’s a microphone on or when they’re on the red carpet. And Twitter is way more dangerous than that, since you’re not responding to one reporter, who’s at least to some degree a professional doing a job, but to a horde of crazy people hiding behind their computers — people that you really have no logical reason at all to respond to in any way. I would think there’d be intense coaching about that, by now.

  • jan

    There is no problem – it was a momentary lapse – she let real emotions show – probably made her friends love her more.

    This show was NOT a disaster. It was a ratings bonanza. There were no major errors – no pratfalls – scenery coming apart – major gaffs in the lines. I wouldn’t be surpassed if it is shown in repeat next year and for years to come.

  • bridgette12

    No one is holding Carrie hostage on twitter, all she has to do is not get on it or ignore the thousands of tweets that said she sucked. So they give her their opinion or shit, her problem is that she is upset about both, because in the end it all comes down to the criticism about her acting ability and how unready she was for this role.

  • Disraeli99

    I’ve been there too – just in a different field and career path than you. Had all kinds of vile and ugly shit flung at me personally and professionally. Have to be rather coldhearted and a tough sonofabitch to survive in this world – moreso in the entertainment industry or any profession that puts you in the public eye. In my world, heh, rich entitled superstars have no reason to whine when the opposite side of the fame and adulation and applause (deservedly in this case) rears its head. Take it, collect your check, keep it moving and have a good life.

  • Sassycatz

    The U.S. is a Democratic Republic. You are free to practice whatever religion you want as long as it doesn’t harm others, but going around saying that a country is this religion or that religion is a slippery slope, especially in a country as diverse as the U.S. which should be welcoming to all.

  • usedtobelucy

    I don’t know. I kind of doubt that, really. She’s shown herself to be a person who works to improve her craft. I would think that she’d know that the acting is something that she could train in and practice and improve at, if she wants to, just like singing and performing were. My guess is that the nasty stuff from trolls just got under her skin. …. I do think she needs to practice not letting that happen, though. ha

  • bridgette12

    It wasn’t a disaster, but it wasn’t an success either. She had unreasonable expectations that she was actually going to be able to develop some acting skills after a few months of lessons. Sure her family and friends love her no matter what, that’s what the people who love you do, she’s bothered that she got panned by reviewers and a lot of people on the internet. If it didn’t bother her about what others are saying, whether they are being cruel or not, she wouldn’t waste her time confronting those who thought she sucked. These people kind of rained on what she thought would be big success.

  • taylor

    I don’t think Carrie has ever seen this level of wide spread criticism and it caught her completely off guard. It was a big risk. In many ways it paid off, but she probably was expecting a much different critical reception.

    It’s hard for a celebrity, who dominates in one world, to go to another and be subpar. Carrie took time off and put everything she had (for 5-6 weeks) into this production. Perhaps she didn’t understand that it wouldn’t be enough in the acting department? For a person with minimal natural acting abilities, your “best” is going to blaringly stick out even more when surrounded with Broadway veterans. Some of the children out acted her, which was due to natural instincts and ability. While she sang the songs well and delivered the lines accurately, her acting was at a high school level.

    When you’ve got it, you’ve got it and she’s nowhere close as far as stage acting goes. I wonder if she knows and accepts this or if she is struggling with the fact that sometimes your best isn’t anywhere close to being enough?

  • bridgette12

    That’s the point, “her Craft”. Acting is not her craft, she’s trying but she don’t have the talent to be one. She’s like Kat, pretty but lack the instinct and skill to stand out in a role, especially a lead role.

  • usedtobelucy

    Could be, I suppose….

    What bothers me is that it was easy to see this coming — it happens to just about everyone who takes on a role that people see as iconic in some way or who moves outside their original bailiwick to perform in some other arena. I guess that’s why I blame the media coaching. It’s their job to see what might happen and warn you off it, seems to me.

    The nasty trolling certainly shouldn’t have surprised anyone who understands how the public response to Hollywood works, since even if she’d been a brilliant actress in the role it’s likely the troll response would have been pretty much exactly the same as it’s been. She was treading on ground that some people have declared sacred. She’s not only a country singer doing Broadway but a tv-talent-contest winner, and thus, to many, a lower species right out of the box. I’m pretty sure that most of the real nastiness had very little, if anything, to do with her actual performance. Seems to me it’s the job of the PR people to understand that kind of thing and make sure people are prepared for it.

  • jan

    This is where we disagree. It was a huge success. It was a gamble to put on a 3 hour live show. It could have bombed. It did not. It held the ratings for all 3 hours. People (after initial curiosity) did not tune out in droves after the first hour. It was an enjoyable show. It was a family show that was fun to watch with family during the holiday.

    Also, you have stated that the reviewers are what got to her. We do not know what made her momentarily upset – one review? many reviews? one tweet? many tweets? Something hit a nerve – but unless you have inside info – there is no way of knowing what it was.

    Carrie started a twitter account very late in the game. For professional reasons, she finally gave in and started an account. If I remember correctly – in an interview she stated that she thought she would have trouble with the negative things people said via twitter. This was long before a Sound Of Music production was even on the drawing board.

  • bridgette12

    Something did hit a nerve, it was the thousands of tweets that said she sucked while the show going on and afterwards. Carrie would have been grateful for just having a few critics not like her performance, she universally got panned for her skills or lack of.

  • usedtobelucy

    Well, she doesn’t have the acting craft mastered right now. But some people who perform can learn to act, and for me the jury’s still out on whether Carrie might be among that group.

    For one thing, unlike what I perceive with Kat, over the years Carrie’s gotten way way better at expressing songs and performing. And for another, what she was being asked to do here was literally *the* most difficult kind of acting — not only on a live stage but live on national television. ONE TAKE. And a three-hour, massively-chopped-up-by-commercials live performance, which had to be extremely difficult for everyone, because there was literally no opportunity whatsoever to get into the flow of the thing. I.e., it had the difficulties of film/tv AND the difficulties of live theater, combined — all chopped up so no chance to get into the flow but also no chance for a second take, plus the incredibly nerve-racking fact that you’re being watched by millions of people. An *extremely* hard acting task. The fact that she was mediocre at that task rather than excruciating suggests to me that maybe she could do better at that craft, with more training and practice.

  • taylor

    “Celebrities are flesh and blood, just like you and me. It still hurts to be mocked and vilified, no matter the circumstances.”

    So true! I can’t imagine how the younger celebrities handle the extreme criticism hurled at them day in and day out! No wonder some of them lose it! Can you imagine what its like to be someone like Bieber or Britney back in the day, where you can’t even walk through an airport without 100s of paps around you?

    Or celebrities who are singled out for being a minority and that is used against them with hate speech day after day, year after year? I can’t imagine what it’s like to be attacked for your very being, not just how you acted in a movie or how you performed!

    “But it appears the level of OTT vitriol she’s had to endure LIKELY IN HER OWN TWITTER MENTIONS is unprecedented.”

    For Carrie, yes, but not for all celebrities. I’m happy to see people calling out this twitter mess though and saying that it is understandable to strike back. I agree that we should cut all these celebrities some slack, who have to deal with these types of attacks, some for years! You’re right, it is insane and they have every right to fight back!

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Hey, if I was in the crosshairs of thousands of tweets saying I sucked, I’d be pretty cranky, too.

    As I’ve said before, I don’t think Underwood’s handling of the situation was an ideal PR move; but being upset when large numbers of strangers can’t STFU and change the channel but have to live-tweet every minute of their paroxysms of rage is not unreasonable.

  • lola

    Geez, her life seemed perfect until now. But this will be forgotten and she and everyone else will move on.

  • jan

    I watched the twitter feed the whole time – there were indeed many (not thousands) of tweets saying she sucked – some from the same people over and over. There were many more supporting her and telling her how wonderful she was.

    Once again I repeat – it was a ratings bonanza – she wins – the network and advertisers love her. Everything else is temporary.

  • usedtobelucy

    “She had unreasonable expectations that she was actually going to be able
    to develop some acting skills after a few months of lessons”

    Well, to be fair, it seems to me that she *did* develop “some” skills in that time. There were some scenes in which she did the talk-acting pretty well, i thought — notably the Climb Every Mountain scene, where she got to play off of Audra M. McDonald was great in that scene, but I thought Carrie rose pretty well to the occasion also. And she *did* act a lot of the songs pretty credibly — she was quite convincing in many of the songs, it seems to me. And that’s actually quite a difficult form of acting.(IMy theory on that is that she relaxed while singing, because she is comfortable with singing and that allowed her to channel emotions — the acting part — to a degree that she didn’t do during most of the speaking parts because her body tensed up when she was only speaking.) Honestly, from what I saw, I kind of think that if she went to a theater and played Maria in Sound of Music for eight shows a week for a few months, she might actually develop some credible acting skills.

    And then my other comment is this — I don’t know that she had the unreasonable expectations you mention. I suspect that they simply said to her — Look, we know that you’ll bring in viewers, so we want you to do this, and you’ll be acting well enough by the end of the rehearsal period for things to be okay. For all we know, she may even have protested, and I’m sure she had doubts. But the people who were putting on the show were not going to do it without a very high-profile person who was a proven ratings getter, so she may very well simply have had the expectation that she could do as well as they needed her to. And she did. Now, I agree that it’s *possible* she had too high expectations of what she could achieve on the learning-acting front. But I don’t think there’s any evidence that she really did. And for the sponsors and producers and the network, her developing really strong acting skills was clearly not a condition of their casting her. She was a ratings draw, and since she’s a country singer, she’ll likely have industry longevity and be a ratings draw for years — so they wanted her for the part, great acting skills or no.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    You may not have seen my post below, but I would be interested in those citations. :)

  • bridgette12

    I would have hoped she would have some high expectations instead of settling just for being mediocre and enjoying the big paycheck.

  • taylor

    Well, she was completely out of her league in the acting department. Her acting pretty much “sucked” and her novice abilities were amplified when she was thrown in with great actors. Really, what did she expect?

    For the most part, people praised her singing and the majority of theatre professionals gave her credit for taking the project on and for helping bring a live musical to network TV. She was getting lots of good comments and validation alongside the criticism. (and the criticism of her acting was warranted)

    There really were many positives in all of this, she should focus on those!

  • fuzzywuzzy

    The ratings indicated that the event was a commercial success, but I don’t think that they indicate an artistic success.

  • bridgette12

    Artistry was not something we saw a lot of on the SOM, except for Audra.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    It was a commercial win, but not an artistic one.

  • jan

    Heh – since when is artistic win a necessity for a holiday show. I don’t think anyone – not a single person – was expecting a top flight artistic accomplishment.

    It worked for the casual viewer – and that is good enough.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I guess that since Carrie was cast in this show over a year before it aired (it was announced in Nov. 2012), no one knows what kind of training or preparation that she engaged in before showing up for rehearsals. Did she start taking acting lessons right away or rely on rehearsals for the show to try to meet the challenge? All that I know is that no matter how or to what extent she prepared, her acting was not nearly at the professional level required for an event of this magnitude.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Really, what did she expect?

    I honestly don’t think Underwood knew to expect a culture where venting rage is considered a fun family hobby, and where rage is so out-of-proportion to the event.

    I agree she should have focused on the positives, but I’m not surprised she was shocked at the level of hate she received for being a mediocre actor, or that people who’d decided they hated it then kept watching and kept repeating how much they hated it.

    If she’s genuinely committed to the message in the scripture she quotes, hate-watching is seriously shocking to her.

  • usedtobelucy

    Well, there’s a difference between settling for mediocrity and doing the best you can to develop as many acting skills as possible in the limited time available.

    And that difference matters to those who think it’s okay that she took the part, since the network needed a ratings draw. And it doesn’t matter to those who think that she shouldn’t have been in the part, no matter what.

    I’m more or less in the first camp, and I gather you’re wholly in the second, so obviously we will never agree about any of this!

  • standtotheright

    Ratings are a function of many things and it’s hard to parse merit out. However, if we define success narrowly enough to say “entertained a large number of people” then I’d say the retention across the three hours indicates that for many people, TSOM qualified.

    If we take Sharknado as a base point, then at any given time there are 2 million Internet-connected Americans willing to watch a TV show for more than 30 minutes just to make fun of it. For grins, let’s double that for a broadcast channel. With 18 milion people watching across the span, it’s reasonable to assume at least 14m of them stuck with the show because they thought it had some entertainment value. Again, artistic merit is a separate issue and people can find popular things less successful artistically. But clearly many people enjoyed themselves enough to keep watching.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Sure, but it still wasn’t an artistic win. And I agree that nobody was expecting a “top flight” level of acting from Carrie, but it was entirely reasonable to expect a professional level of acting, which she did not deliver.

  • taylor

    I don’t think she settled at all. It’s probably extremely frustrating to her that she couldn’t do better than she did when she was doing her best. Her best has always been enough and has made her the top of her world.I think she underestimated the work and natural ability that goes into stage acting. A lot of people do!

    This whole situation pointed out just how hard it is to be really good at live theatre. It’s not simply something that you can work on for a few weeks, especially if you don’t have natural acting instincts. However, there are some people who can come straight off of the street and their acting instincts are already above those who have been working at the craft for years. I’m sure there are some random singer/non-actors who do have this kind of natural acting ability, but Carrie wasn’t one of them.

  • usedtobelucy

    As we know, however, broadcast tv networks are only interested in ratings successes. And if they were interested in artistic successes, they wouldn’t get the ratings. So they wouldn’t get the advertisers …. And they’d be kaput.

    It’s really not easy being a media outlet in these times when people have hundreds if not thousands of alluring entertainment choices …. I don’t think tens of millions usually flock to art, especially on tv. In this case, if there had been someone with Carrie’s level of popularity who could have both sung and acted brilliantly, they probably would have cast her. But nobody seems to be able to think of anybody who fits that bill.

    Kristen Bell is a possibility that comes to my mind, to some degree. But despite having been a tv star, she doesn’t have nearly the ratings draw of a Carrie, I’m sure. And, while she sings well, she doesn’t sing as well as Carrie — so then there’d be that downside.

  • bridgette12

    There’s a difference between self aware of your abilities or lack thereof and being delusional enough to think you will develop something you don’t have the instinct to do after taking a few lessons. She knew she was mediocre before she started preparing for this, did she think some kind of divine intervention would occur to turn her into something above mediocre.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Sure, I’m not arguing about the commercial success at all, but I was focussing on artistic merit vs. popularity. And, as you say, it’s hard to know among those viewers who watched for the entire time what their sentiments were while they were watching, but people did watch and that can be regarded as being “entertained” (which encompasses a range of responses/reactions) for that period of time.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    She knew she was mediocre before she started preparing for this, did she think some kind of divine intervention would occur to turn her into something above mediocre.

    She probably expected that acting lessons and rehearsals would improve her skills, which is a perfectly reasonable assumption. Most people are, with practice, capable of improvement.

    Maybe she wasn’t. Maybe she started from such a low base that this was an improvement. An awful lot of viewers seem to have thought she wasn’t an impossibly awful drag on the production (or the ratings would have dropped), so maybe viewers didn’t universally see her as all that bad.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Right. The networks will choose commercial (ratings) success over artistic merit all of the time, but citing the high ratings are not an argument for artistic merit of the event.

  • bridgette12

    There are certain skills in life that you can’t just take a few lessons and be good at it. You might be able to complete the task and get a pat on the head for attempting it, but sometimes you won’t show any improvement unless you have talent in the first place.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Exactly.

  • jan

    A quick preface to my remarks. Carrie is not my special snowflake. I spend very little time thinking about her or checking up on her. I own her last album – but that’s the only one.

    Nevertheless – I can use google to check up on her history – the idea that she has never faced criticism is incorrect. During her time at Idol she was criticized for being robotic. Some of her albums have had some very negative critiques.

    She has taken public stances for animal rights – she won’t perform at rodeos – she is a vegan – she has publicly opposed her home state Tennessee’s Ag Gag laws. This has earned her some very vicious criticism.

    In the end – she is strong. Anyone thinking this will lead to anything negative in her career is fooling themselves.

    And with that – I am out of here – I’ve said everything that I came here to stay.

  • usedtobelucy

    I don’t know. I thought Benanti and Borle were also really good, and Carrie and the kids had some moments (I know you disagree about Carrie!)

    BUt this whole “artistry” thing kind of makes me laugh. This is really one of Rogers and Hammerstein’s clunkier, simple, playing-to-the-masses musicals. And the movie is sweet schlock done with technical brilliance. I wouldn’t call either of them “art,” and I don’t think they were ever intended to be. They’re very nice entertainments for the masses.

    And plenty of small theaters and high school troupes have played the Sound of Music, with both acting and singing that was thousands of leagues below what this performance provided, and yet we enjoyed it. Because it’s just sweet, middle-of-the-road, feel-good entertainment. ….

    … I might be upset with Carrie if she’d accepted a bid to star in Tristan and Isolde or The Cherry Orchard. But I don’t really think you have to be Maria Callas or Meryl Streep to merit a part in a sweet little R&H show, really.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    sometimes you won’t show any improvement unless you have talent in the first plac.

    Really? That’s not at all my experience from teaching oral communication skills. Some people pick it up more easily than others but I never had a student who couldn’t improve at all, and that includes some with diagnosed disabilities that should have interfered. (I actually got sent more than my share of students with special needs because I wasn’t dismissive of them.)

  • bridgette12

    You don’t have to be Maria Callas or Meryl Streep, but you don’t have to be a hack either.

  • taylor

    Yeah, twitter is a culture that many people don’t get or don’t understand, especially those who haven’t grown up with social media at their fingertips 24/7. Carrie didn’t grow up with her phone in front of her at all times. She’s probably shocked at the fact that people watch TV and comment 100s of times throughout their favorite shows.

    I’m sure some people were hate watching, some were being snarky, and some were just expressing general opinions on the performances. Since her acting wasn’t very good, all these groups were commenting on that, at the same time. She took it seriously and not everyone else in these groups did. It’s kind of like when people snark or critique the performances on singing shows here. The same thing is happening on Twitter x 1,000,000, especially for the higher rated shows.

  • standtotheright

    Okay, I think that’s the best summation of my feelings. It’s not a great book, with great characters, and they aren’t my favorite songs. I’d rather watch Flower Drum Song (and its racism) over TSOM any day.

    So CU being occasionally plucky and charming was adequate, and being more-than occasionally stiff was understandable given that the book is kind of a mess. Sure, a great actress could have transcended it. But I just don’t think it’s such rarefied artistic air that her being less-than-transcendent could single-handedly bring it back down to earth.

  • usedtobelucy

    “Something did hit a nerve, it was the thousands of tweets that said she sucked while the show going on and afterwards”

    But ask yourself: How much is actual art criticism likely to be a preoccupation of the kinds of people who would post all that snarky dumb crap on Twitter? Do you really think that those are people who spend any time at all discussing the relative artistic merits of Sondheim musicals vs. Lerner and Loewe or comparing the standards of acting exhibited in Big Bang Theory and Parks and Recreation? ….

    I seriously seriously doubt that most of the mean stuff had the least thing to do with actual criticism of art. (Hell, I can’t even get a discussion of artistic merit and meaning of performances started around *here*, where there supposedly are a lot of people who are really interested in music!)

    I even doubt that many of the people snarking on Twitter were even watching the show. I suspect that most of them either just dislike country singers, or dislike talent-show-winners, or dislike Carrie personally because they wanted Bo or somebody else to win Season Five, or have a really deep nostalgic love for the schlocky Sound of Music film and can’t stand the idea of anyone at all replacing Julie (an extremely common response when anybody at all, no matter how skilled and gifted, takes on some role people are emotionally attached to) — Or they’re just the kind of people who jump on any Twitter trend they see that has a chance of turning nasty and participate with relish — even when they don’t give a crap about the actual subject of the conversation.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Sure, this show can be entertaining at a lot of different levels and “outstanding” levels of acting ability are definitely not “required”. The problem is when a person is cast in a high-profile professional production such as SOML with top-notch musical theater actors/actresses, and only delivers a high-school level acting performance. There was enough good in this event to keep many people entertained, but Carrie’s poor acting ability was glaring by comparison and it impacted a lot of the storyline in a negative way.

  • windmills

    I agree with you and jan. The only thing I’d add is I think that in addition to proving her singing chops (because people were ready to pounce on her for those too), I felt like there was something about the camera loving Carrie on Thursday…mediocre spoken delivery notwithstanding, I thought she was compelling to watch. I know the Daily Beast review pointed this out too even while talking about her acting weakness/singing strength, and there were some other mainstream pro reviews that said something similar.

    I’ve always been a fan of Carrie’s but I don’t always think of her as somebody with a sparkling star quality (really, I don’t!). Thursday, I did, and I feel like between that and the ratings, Carrie’s going to have more TV offers coming (but likely in the variety show/music area, not something that involves heavy acting).

    Personally, I’m at the “dust settling” part of the discussion. But I wanted to post this James Wolcott Vanity Fair commentary because it was a fun read and made me laugh. I kind of hope Carrie sees it, though odds are she’s staying off the intertubes for now.

  • usedtobelucy

    On a what-I-would-like-to-see level, I agree with you. But I know that they were going to cast *someone* for ratings! Because otherwise their sponsors would have been seriously upset. …. And since I can’t think of anybody else who could have both brought huge ratings AND scored a home run with both the singing and the acting, I guess I’m just as happy with Carrie in the gig as with anyone!

  • usedtobelucy

    In fact, she may well have been better — even much much better — in rehearsals than she was in the live performance, too. With a one-shot performance like this, we have no way of knowing what actual level of skill she may have shown at some other juncture.

    For actors, every performance can be different, and the factors that account for it are pretty ineffable. … I remember once seeing one of my close friends in a huge high-profile role one night and feeling disappointed because there was a disjoint between him and the part — he was okay, but not great, and the venue and the part called for great. …. But then I went back the next night, and he was truly brilliant. Turned out that he’d had a 90-minute deep-tissue massage on the day of the second performance that I saw. And that may have been the difference — which was truly night and day, from an acting-skill standpoint. The second night he and the character were one. Seamless. Drew you right in. Had the audience weeping. (apparently he did that more often, since he won a big award for the role…) …

    In any case, while I’m sure she’s not Judy Dench at this point, I don’t think one performance necessarily shows us all that Carrie may have learned.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I’m not talking about a “home run” in acting. That would have been far too unrealistic an expectation. And yes, it’s hard to cast this role for hugh ratings (primary importance), and have both great singing and acting. I think that Carrie’s singing was good, but she was sub-par in meeting the acting demands. I also think that if the legit critics (as well as many of her own fans) hadn’t all criticized her acting (some rather harshly, but not cruelly), then she would have been able to ignore the jerks on twitter.

  • bridgette12

    Carrie maybe should take a hiatus from acting and prepare for her next album and tour.

  • usedtobelucy

    Yep, could be.

  • bridgette12

    And also, part of her being upset is that even those trying to be politically correct and sensitive to her feelings, choose to compliment her singing and mention what a great person she is while ignoring the pink elephant in the room.

  • windmills

    I was going to say, I thought Laura Benanti was awesome as Elsa, giving a performance with range and depth, and Christian Borle brought some levity that was much needed when he made his entrance. Max is a fun part but with the stage production’s emphasis on the Anschluss angle, Borle also brought a touch of concern and seriousness to his character. I’m pretty excited that 18.6 million people got to see them and Audra McDonald shine like that.

    I also totally agree with your assessment of Carrie’s acting – she had her moments, mostly during the musical numbers but also in a couple of dialogue scenes. Not enough to qualify as more than a mediocre actor in that role, but also not irredeemably awful. Looking forward though it’ll definitely be Carrie being up to the singing side of things that’ll be the basis of this experience being a plus for her. That and maybe also how even some of the pro critics who saw the acting flaws found her “charming” (to quote James Wolcott in Vanity Fair) and compelling to watch in a good way anyway.

    And now I think I’m finally talked out about this! Thanks for your thoughts!

  • HermeticallySealed

    Considering the hate she got for merely marrying a hockey star (and moving him to the States), she should have been prepared. People on Twitter were calling her a whore, and railing for her death. That alone should have taught her better than to expect sunshine and rainbows from social media.

  • usedtobelucy

    Could be. But I’ve known quite a few actors, acting teachers, and other theater types over the course of my life, and they’ve convinced me that acting isn’t really one of those skills, though!

  • usedtobelucy

    ITA!

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Agree totally that this event was a huge win for musical theater, and I am also delighted that Benanti, Borle and McDonald were exposed to such a huge audience. And definitely, Carrie was responsible for attracting a very large proportion of those viewers.

  • taylor

    I agree, as I never expected a home run in the acting department. Whether she had some natural instincts and could get to the level of perhaps a decent college actor was the mystery. Many people, who you would never suspect, have this unknown natural ability. Carrie didn’t.

  • bridgette12

    If it takes no skill to be an actor then Carrie certainly qualifies as an actor.

  • usedtobelucy

    Amen to all of this!

  • usedtobelucy

    Yeah, I agree that I would have liked it more if everybody had been up to the McDonald/Benanti/Borle standard! …. Of course, one person who’s been missing from the conversation about mediocrity has been, ahem, Stephen Moyer…. Who supposedly *is* an actor — and I thought that Carrie’s singing and at times even her acting left him in the dust! I don’t know what his problem was. I really think he must have been sick or something.

    At the same time, I know we would all have been very disappointed if the show had been 100 percent great but gotten a significantly smaller audience share. And that’s what they would have risked, without Carrie, obviously. …

    Unfortunately, since i really can’t think of anybody who’s Carrie’s equal as a ratings draw but with both the singing adn the acting chops required to live up to Audra McDonald, I guess we were pretty much goign to be stuck with one less-than-ideal outcome or the other. …

    *Can* anybody think of who could have brought all three things — ratings/acting/singing — to the part? It’s an interesting questions. Can’t say I’ve seen any suggestions ….

  • fuzzywuzzy

    and praise her for being a “hard worker”.

  • bridgette12

    My suggestion would have been if this is the best you can come up with, leave it alone. Strive for the best, not the subpar just to get ratings.

  • taylor

    Not true. All the lessons in the world won’t make a Broadway level actor. You can improve, but you could never make it to this level.

    Just like all the lessons in the world can’t make you a singer at the level of Carrie Underwood. You can improve, but there’s got to be some natural ability
    and talent there to start out with to get to her singing level. Acting is the same way.

  • usedtobelucy

    Well, they could have given the part to Laura Benanti … … or Laura Osnes, since Laura B is too long in the tooth for it now — but then *nobody* *would* *have* watched*!

    But you’re the ideal person to ask, bridgette12. I can’t think of anybody they could have given it to who would have been a great singer, great actor *and* great ratings draw, at present. Who’s on your short list as the Carrie alternative who would have brought all three?

    Or are you in the camp that wouldn’t mind if it got lousy ratings? (I can’t be in that camp because I like those ratings for musical theater!)

  • merkureye

    I have seen a couple of comments related to Carrie “earning her fee” for acting. What was Carrie’s fee for playing Maria in TSOML? Anybody know?? I know she gets $1 million for appearance fees. I wonder what she got for acting. Just curious.

  • chillj

    Thanks, that was interesting. Apparently I come from a long line of outliers :). Or moved so much and went to so many churches when young, I associated with a lot of outliers. There are, however, a lot of “nontrinitarians”, I just read, many of whom are broadly considered in the Christian fold, so I don’t think the term “Christian” is always used to represent a certain dogma. Obviously, I don’t respond to it; I imagine there are others.

  • bridgette12

    Yes, saw plenty of that or mention how many awards she’s won, like that should give her brownie points for bad acting.

  • taylor

    Lea Michele, Anne Hathaway, Kristen Bell, Anna Kendrick, Amy Adams. NBC could have used a ratings draw with the casting of the children or the Captain. They could have used popular singers, who have Broadway experience, like Ariana Grande in the role of Liesl or Nick Jonas as Rolf. Or one of the 1D boys…jk, jk!

  • Tess Herself

    I asked the same question earlier and the only “real” response was Anne Hathaway, and I, personally, wouldn’t have appreciated her in the role at all.

    I’m still one of those who cringe at the casting of Mama Mia, Meryl Streep and Pierce Brosnan, bless their little hearts, absolutely ruined the show for me. And Olivia Newton John in Grease…now that was a wooden actress. And the insipidness of Natalie Wood in West Side Story, or the entire cast of the remake of FootLoose. And these were movies where peeps get multiple takes and stunt doubles and recorded music.

    I think the online world has just forgotten that casting at the best of times is a whole inaccurate science…and that being said I still enjoyed SOML and will watch it again, Carrie and all.

  • usedtobelucy

    Never said you could be a Broadway-level actor. I was responding to the comment that you couldn’t take lessons and learn to “be good at it” and that “you won’t show any
    improvement unless you have talent in the first place.”

    Neither is true, I have on what I consider to be good authority. YMMV

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Yes, I was disappointed with Stephen as well, so he shares some of the responsibility for the lack of chemistry with Carrie. I thought that his singing was pretty dicey at times too. Again, I wasn’t expecting Carrie to be on par with Audra, Christian or Laura, that would have been far too much to expect, but achieving “professional” level would have been so much better. I thought that Ariane Rinehart was wonderful as Liesl and thought that she didn’t have much experience (she had to audition for the part), but in fact, she has quite an impressive resume:

    http://www.nbc.com/sound-of-music/about/bio/cast/ariane-rinehart/832258/

  • Disraeli99

    No sympathy for these overpaid, overfed, overpraised stars who have such thin skin when it comes to criticism of their “work”… thin skins but massive egos… egos that expect people to cater to their every need and whim because they can sing or dance or act…. Mockery, criticism and sometimes unjustified vilification come with the superstar package. Anyone not knowing this going in is IMO too soft and naive for the business. Point blank period.

  • usedtobelucy

    Yep, I cringe at all those castings you mention as well.

    I think that the online world doesn’t actually remember any facts whatsoever but is pretty much wholly driven by the thrill of sledding down one apparently infinite hill of snark afater the other.

  • taylor

    Then I fully agree with you. :) Just like one can become a better singer, one can become a better actor. That doesn’t mean you will ever be good enough to win an Idol crown, much less become a Clarkson or Underwood, and it doesn’t mean you will ever be a great stage actor, much less a Broadway level actor.

  • usedtobelucy

    Yeah, I agree that those are the options, Michele and Bell, especially. I don’t personally think that Anne Hathaway can actually sing. I can’t see any of those getting anything near the Carrie ratings, though. Lea M certainly doesn’t bring great ratings to Glee.

    On Nick Jonas — in *London* they used him as a ratings draw for the 25th anniversary of Les Miz. …. And, lord, he sank every scene he was in to a level that Carrie could in no way match, in my opinion. He was awful. Every molecule of air was sucked out of the whole production every time he opened his mouth, I thought. (of course that was partly because everybody else in that production was an absolutely brilliant singer, there were a ton of them, and it was *all* singing ….) But somehow you think that the London theater, doing stuff that’ll get only on PBS in the states, wouldn’t have to sink to that low in a quest for eyeballs. But they clearly thought that they did.

  • Tess Herself

    We could have been stuck with Taylor Swift, or maybe GaGa, or heaven forbid one of the Disney girls: Selena, Miley, Demi…..after all the real Marie was only 21.

  • bridgette12

    First thing, Carrie Underwood should never had been mentioned in the sentence with acting or the SOM. Second, I didn’t need the SOM to updated or whatever they did. Last but not least, if I am looking for good musical theater, NBC wouldn’t be my first choice. It was a subpar version of the original and Carrie as the lead brought it even further down the drain. I haven’t lived all these years, hoping for musical theater to be shown on tv, If I want to see it, it will be in person with real actors who take their craft seriously, not some hack brought in for ratings.

  • taylor

    If we excuse and accept Carrie’s tweets as momentary lapses of judgment and say that she is only human, should we not do the same for ALL of these celebrities? Especially the young kids, who don’t have the years of maturity and success behind them like Carrie has?

  • usedtobelucy

    Plus, a lot of times what hits a nerve on Twitter is just the fact that a bunch of people are posting something negative .

    Then — and I would bet quite a bit of money on this being the a case — a lot of people who hang around on Twitter see this negative thing trending and jump onto the bandwagon, taking delight in driving the frenzy higher and higher despite the fact that they neither know nor care anything about what’s actually being posted. I have no faith at all that most of the negative Twitter frenzies have anything at all to do with the subject at hand. Trolls drive it because they’re trolls, not because they believe what they’re posting

  • taylor

    I’m betting Taylor Swift has some natural acting instincts in her. Not for Maria, but for the right role.
    Gaga has good acting instincts, some natural ability and some experience.Carrie. Selena and Demi are also much better actors than Carrie. How about an Into the Heights musical TV show?!

  • Tess Herself

    But can they sing? I don’t appreciate any of their voices.

  • usedtobelucy

    Completely agree.

  • HKfan

    I still think the name The Sound Of Music was the main draw for those 18m people…..more so than her name.

  • taylor

    Demi and Gaga can, but they wouldn’t be right for the role of Maria and they aren’t who I listed as possible Marias in the first place. You brought their names up out of the blue.

  • usedtobelucy

    Wow, yes, she does have an impressive resume.

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    I’m betting Taylor Swift has some natural acting instincts in her. Not for Maria, but for the right role.

    We get to find out, as Taylor Swift was cast as Rosemary in the movie version of The Giver, which will be released in November 2014.

  • usedtobelucy

    “It was a subpar version of the original”

    Oh,so you saw the original stage play? Wow. Cool. I’m sure that was great. Hard to beat Mary Martin. And I saw Bikel in Fiddler and he was brilliant. And of course live Broadway theater has it all over the best televised Broadway theater, more’s the pity…. Or am I forgetting something … The stage version wasn’t ever televised before, was it? If it was, I missed it.

  • wordnerdarchie

    But Taylor can’t sing live consistently. That would have been a train wreck vocally.

  • HKfan

    You don’t know nobody would have watched…the name TSOM is bigger and been around longer than CarrieU….we won’t ever know what percentage watched because of what show it was, and not because it was Carrie, but maybe its really high..

  • taylor

    In the right role, her singing could be just as good as Carrie’s acting. lol
    Once again, I never mentioned any of these people for the role of Maria! See my above list for names I’ve seen mentioned in theatre circles.

  • usedtobelucy

    Yeah, you’re right. I don’t know it. …. I kind of assume it from seeing that musicals on PBS with stellar casts don’t bring in anything within miles of the ratings that NBC would want for a special event. But, as you say, since this is the Sound of Music, who knows? Obviously they thought they needed her. But they could easily have been wrong. ..Given their track record, .NBC wouldn’t take the risk, though, as we know.

  • Garrett Clayman

    For those curious Lena Dunham (an actress who has received an immense amount of twitter hate in her career) tweeted her response to this https://twitter.com/lenadunham/status/409546886702694400

    Lena Dunham @lenadunham

    @billyeichner Phrased wrong but I get her point. I’d say it more like “be sweet, boiz!”

  • Garrett Clayman

    There was no way it could’ve been an artistic win from any stand point. It was a TV movie that had an incredible original. No matter how good her acting was no one was going to watch it and say “WOW, she’s better than Julie Andrews” anyone who saw Soul Surfer already knows about Carrie’s acting all she could ask for was a commercial win and she definitely got that. If she wants an artistic win she should stay away from TV remakes.

  • Garrett Clayman

    Have u seen Valentine’s Day? TSwizzle cannot act, as wooden as Carrie

  • Garrett Clayman

    Carrie was relatively late to the twitter party, I don’t think she got one until 2011

  • HermeticallySealed

    I think most of that has to do with channel, rather than actors. The simple fact is, most people just don’t watch PBS to know about shows like that. On the other hand, people do watch NBS, and are far more likely to see the commercials and other mentions for productions.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I disagree. If her acting had been good, then it would have been an artistic win, which is NOT the same as “better than Julie Andrews”, a goal that was completely unrealistic. Attaining that level of excellence was not necessary for an “artistic win” in this event.

  • usedtobelucy

    “There was no way it could’ve been an artistic win from any stand point.
    It was a TV movie that had an incredible original. No matter how good
    her acting was no one was going to watch it and say “WOW, she’s better
    than Julie Andrews””

    Just to clarify, the film was *not* the “original* of this show. This show was a redo of the live stage play, which predated the film by several years, starred Mary Martin, not Julie Andrews, and had the book and (mostly) the song list we saw here, not the one from the film. I’m surprised that there’s still apparent confusion about that.

    That’s a risk that NBC did take — since eveyrbody’s seen the film and few have seen a professional production of the stage play. They obviously knew that people would compare> Aren’t they even the network that replayed the movie every holiday for years and years? But they figured that was a risk worth taking, obviously. But the movie and the stage play are just … different.

  • Garrett Clayman

    i genuinely think she never would have been as a success no matter how great her acting because it was the less familiar musical and everyone was comparing her. When you have a comparison itll never be a success she should do a movie where she won’t be compared

  • Eilonwy_has_an_emu

    Underwood wasn’t on Twitter when she married her hockey star, so whoever the haterz were @ replying with death threats, it wasn’t her.

    I don’t hold her responsible for being aware of what people would have tweeted her, had she been on Twitter, at a time when she actually wasn’t.

  • bridgette12

    I don’t think there was any confusion, the rest of us seem to be comparing the original movie with this made for tv production.

  • Garrett Clayman

    That actually doesn’t confuse me at all, I’ve actually seen the musical many times, but the last time anyone has seen the story of the Sound of Music on TV it was the movie version so it is very easy to compare

  • usedtobelucy

    I agree. YOu see it again and again. When some part or show is considered iconic by a lot of people, and people are passionate fans or feel nostalgic about it or something, it doesn’t matter how good the person is who is cast later. All hell tends to break loose around him or her.

  • Tess Herself

    I still don’t think that any body of actors and singers with 5 weeks of rehearsal, performing “LIVE” with live singing in an airplane hanger, in front of numerous cameras could have been as artistic as many believe the movie is. The entire movie production, from start to finish took about 3 years, with the actors rehearsing for 3 months and filming for 6 or 7 more. And the entire sound track was pre-recorded…nothing sung live during filming. How do you even begin to compare the two.

  • taylor

    Nick, or someone like him, was a suggestion for the part of Rolf, not a major role. Darren Criss? I’m sure there are other young popular male actors out there who can sing or singers who might have some good natural acting ability.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I wasn’t referring to the movie.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I disagree (we are talking an artistic success here, not a popularity contest). If the acting and singing had been great, it would have been an artistic win for her, regardless of what the SOM movie stans wanted (and I’m a big fan of the movie). And any of the complaints from those stans are easily ignored. Apples and oranges.

    ETA: Even if the majority of people preferred Julie Andrews or Mary Martin, if the singing and acting had been great, it would have been an artistic win.

  • milwlovesadam

    Excellent post. ITA.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    “On Nick Jonas — in *London* they used him as a ratings draw for the 25th anniversary of Les Miz. …. And, lord, he sank every scene he was in to a level that Carrie could in no way match, in my opinion. He was awful.”

    It was a total joke that he was included in that stellar cast.

  • breakdown

    I don’t think anyone said that this will hurt her career, just that she can’t act and that perhaps the wording of her tweet was ill-advised.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I guess that I’m between the two camps. :) I think that Carrie thought/hoped/was led to believe that she would be able to meet the acting demands of the role just fine (with the producers/directors having a much lower level of “acceptable” set for her than “professional-level musical theater artist”). It appears (although isn’t confirmed) from the sustained high ratings), that they made the right guestimation in that level for the general populace/her fans vs. those who had higher expectations (“professional” level of acting).

    Carrie comes from a different part of the entertainment industry and (at least from the bio on her wiki page), didn’t participate in any musical theater growing up and before Idol. So, without having any first hand experience and with “professionals” assuring her that she would be fine, it’s easy to see how she could have badly misjudged what it would take to satisfy those who had “professional” acting expectations for her in this role (I would be in this category). I’m not talking about trying to appease those SOM stans or “haters” who would never give her any credit regardless of how she did – that would be pointless.

    If Carrie is astute and at all realistic (and I think that she may be), she may have realized at some point during rehearsals that, despite what she was being told and working her tail off, her acting wasn’t very good. I think that once she witnessed the musical theater pros rehearsing, it must have made her feel insecure (how can you blame her?). She probably hoped that her efforts to meet the vocal demands of the role would be enough to compensate for any acting shortcomings (not fully realizing how much the two were intertwined and how important her portrayal of this character would be to have a compelling and convincing storyline).

    So, I think that it was a combination of miscalculation on Carrie’s part combined with feedback that she was getting from others (producers, directors, colleagues) that led to the end result, and Carrie now knows that the critics aren’t wrong and it bugs her that she didn’t succeed as well as she had hoped.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    I think that was to emphasize that she was a critically-acclaimed singer, and focus attention on that.

  • usedtobelucy

    Certainly was. The result was just bizarre.

  • Lexie O’Neill

    Sorry I didn’t see this earlier. I’m in the middle of exam grading right now, so will have to wait until I’m in the office for more (am hiding at home so I can get work done). Shafranske is the big name who wrote a book about the need for faith in clinical psychology. Will get more specifics soon.

  • ptslittlecomment

    And, as Jesus himself pointed out, there is not always a correlation between being “religious” and following one’s faith.

  • ptslittlecomment

    Horrible things have been done under the name of many things, some including religion, some not. (Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, to name a few). Generally the atrocities have been committed under the name of some ideology or mad man but even when done in the name of whatever religion, seldom for the GOD/creator but a man’s institution of rules and regulations.

  • fuzzywuzzy

    Yes, perhaps “organized religion” is a more accurate term.