American Idol Season 7 Redux – A Few Thoughts

mj, procrastination ftw!!! However, I also know that what you have to share will be beyond awesome!

I have to say I. Loved. Happy Together.! This sold me on DC! yeah!!!!

You know MJ, I pretty much agree with you on this, except for Jason Castro, lol.

I went back and watched David A’s performance, and that is the ONLY time I’ve ever heard him sing well. It’s all been downhill from there. Really downhill. Plus his awkward demeanor and lip licking is just bizarre.

Okay, ITA, I lurved Jason and his “who cares” attitude from the beginning. Also Brooke White, yep, she’s no other than Brooke! I voted for DC, JC and BW from the beginning and no one else all season long. I never voted before IIRC, never watched an entire season before…

I wish I could be watching these reruns.

And Now, I have to go to bed…Good night.

Yes! A thread for procrastinators who’ve been rewatching AI7!

Luke wasn’t good, but I don’t think Colton or Garrett were better… I think the right 4 left that first week, but shame that they were kinda set up to fail as cannon fodder.

Alaina definitely didn’t deserve to go so soon. She’s definitely way better than KLC or Rami, but for some odd reason, despite a good voice, nice performance skills, and a personality, she wasn’t pimped at all while we saw a decent bit of KLC and a *ton* of Ramiele during Hollywood week. Rami in particular looked really good from the Hollywood clips, and did well for top 24, which fooled a lot of people into thinking she had promise– and built her a decent enough fanbase to carry her through to top 9 even though she pretty much started to crash and burn right after the first week.

Archie was totally adorable and looked like he was having so much fun! I think the frontrunner label must have been tough to carry after a while, because I truly felt that he looked a lot less joyful in his later performances as the competition wore on. I’m glad to say that now that Idol is over, I’m seeing a lot more joy in Archie’s performances again.

So much blubbering during the eliminations.

OMG, I had to rewatch to make sure, but when the camera panned the back row of guys during Colton’s elimination, even DC looked like he was teary! I remember how surprised people were when DC cried after ABMB, and at the Finale, but I’m beginning to believe Carly when she said that “that man is always crying” (or something like that). We just didn’t notice because he just hid it as much as he could, and we weren’t paying as much attention earlier on.

AI7 was the first time I watched the AI semis (dang writer strike)– was this sogginess normal for other seasons?

i don’t know if i should post the link but whatever, try this if you don’t get home in time to watch the reruns or just don’t have cable or whatever…..

http://www.dailymotion.com/igrecman/27

or if you have no life at all, like me, you could skip onto the Fantasia performance which was fantastic if you ask me! ha…

I agree that Alaina left before her time. From the beginning, she and Brooke were my favorite female contestants, and I honestly thought Alaina was a shoo-in for the Top 12.

…also, I enjoyed reading MJs comments in redux as much as I did the first time around!

I can’t sleep so I may as well jump in!

Archie and Jason’s performances on this night is in the top favorites for me of the entire season. I can’t wipe the grin off my face while watching!

I agree with the person who said David lost some of his spark. That front runner pressure was really hard on him. Notice the difference in him in the results night finale. Pressure was off , David was on.

I too like Robbie’s voice but oh, the image.. wow. I think if he wouldn’t have tried so hard to dress like a rocker, it would have helped.

I liked Alaina very much and I was shocked that she went before Kady. I knew Kristy Lee was going to keep going because of her backstory and looks.

Maybe the deal with Alaina is some people had the same problem I did. I do agree she left before her time, but at the beginning of the season I was a pretty casual AI watcher and I had a tendency to get her mixed up with Kady and KLC. The blondes, minus Brooke, all blended together for me.

Robbie Carrico – better than what I remembered.
David Archuleta – adorable, I’m thinking IF there’s no front-runner pressure, we might be able to see more “shop around” performance. well…its just “IF”.
David Cook – better than I thought. except hair. I’m so glad he changed his hair later. After changing the hair style, Cook looked so cute and hot.
Michael John – I agree. he got lots of pimping on that nite. IMO. He repeated same song. hmm..anyway I still think he’s cool.
Jason Castro – sorry, I still don’t get Jason.
Carly Smithson – was good as I remembered. During top 24, I think she was kinda front-runner. Next Kelly. Best vocals in 2 days, etc.
Alexandrea Lushington or Asiah Epperson – I like these girls. I was pretty sure they could make top 12, cuz they’re talented, and they were great.
Amy Davis – hmm…was bad..yeah..I fast forwarded.
Brooke White – I prefer to Cook’s version.
Kristy Lee Cook – Ryan and all judges gave her lots of excuses. flu, nerv, first singler, whatever…anyway camera loves her. She looked so good.

KLC – was as bad as I remembered.

Alaina – didn’t even remember her. It was the too many blonde’s in the kitchen deal. I think her biggest downfall was that she was a dead ringer for Carrie Underwood. Very pretty but almost a doppleganger.

Amy Davis was very pretty but horribly pitchy.

Kady Malloy – was better than they gave her credit for.

Luke Menard – still resembles Orlando Bloom but sounds like one of the rotten audition clips.

Jason – one of his best performances, IMO.

Cook – loved him then, love him now. How didn’t Simon get it? He was looking for a remixing/remastering to make it more current and that is what Cook did. This performance will always be remembered for me by the flop sweat story Cook told, hilarious.

Johns – over praised

Rami – ditto

Yeager – forgettable yet the mannerism’s during singing annoying enough to remember.

Archie – the lip licking watch commenses, but one of his better performances.

Ditto to whoever said it above that both Alexandrea & Asia’h should have advanced over KLC & Rami

Robbie C – LMAO at the original rocker comment. Hmmm, don’t think that lasted long. But the vocals were actually quite good.

What this showed me is, there is no way in hell Syesha should of made it to the top three. So many more were better

I didn’t remember much about the Top 24 week, appearantly. Re-watching that (on DailyMotion, no Fox Reality for me!) was very interesting, with the perspective of knowing how it all turns out in the end.

For one, anyone who said DC was TCO last season only needs to watch that week’s episodes to be proven wrong. He was almost invisible during the group sing, he was definitely not one of the pimped guys (that honor belongs to Archie, Michael and Jason), and I believe he could’ve easily been voted off that week. Good thing Garrett Haley and Colton Berry were there. BTW – are TPTB always that obvious with their canon fodder? It’s like Garrett and Colton had “I’m not really a competitor” printed on their foreheads.
The first time I remember liking anything about DC was the next week, with the Word Nerd intro. HT was good, but he didn’t stand out yet, and the overall appearance was a mess.

I believe that if last season had the format that season 8 is intended to have (only the Top 3 go on each semi-final night), he would’ve gone home for either HT or ARN. Shudder to think.

Anyway, about topics other than DC (I’m trying!) – David A was so much happier and looser on stage than I have ever seen him on Idol since. What happened?
I actually started the season with MJ as my early favorite, and he stayed that way through Top 20, but watching back he wasn’t as good as I originally thought. I guess I was blinded by the pretty.
The girls were so very boring compared to the guys, I couldn’t bring myself to watch that entire episode again. I’m amazed the judges tried to sell it as if the talent was evenly matched, I think last season was very clearly a guy’s season to lose, from the very beginning.

Yea, I finally get to watch and comment on AI7…and after watching tonite, my most promenient emotion is disgust at the judges and/or TPTB for allowing so many horribly underwhelming performers/singers into the competition in the first place. And for the LAME-ASS 60′s theme (I know in some circles as a walking jukebox, but even a few of these songs I had never heard before or maybe I just didn’t recognize them due to the sub-par execution).

I thought all 3 Davids, Jason C., Archie, Robbie, and MJ were the only ones to give good performances on the men’s side. While mostly all of the females sucked ass, except for Amanda, Asiah, Alaina, Rami, and Alex. Carly was off pitch and boring; Syesha displayed no soul during her performance (as evidenced by the bored looks on most of the male contestants), Brooke was all over the place with her notes and KLC was just out and out awful (especially with the “emotive” facial/eye tics). Heck, I’m amazed that these were the best females and males they selected out of the roughly 100K that tried out. I kept on telling my roommate that they should have sent them all home and just started over.

It’s a good thing I know how this eventually turns out or I’d quit watching right now…more that half of all the first 24 performances were either off-key, boring, and/or basically unworthy.

Heck, I need to rewatch DC’s and Archie’s performances again to get me back into a good mood, DARN IT!

Thank you, MJ, for the thread and for allowing me the opportunity to share in the awesomeness that was AI7.

———————————-
Peace Out & POKE SMOT :smoke_tb:

I don’t even want to admit how many times I’ve watched this already. My major comments are:

Boys:

David Archuleta was amazing…only time for me that he was. I don’t know what happened to him but he lost a whole lot of something as the contest went on.

David Cook wasn’t my favorite yet (that happened the next week), but I should have known it was coming because something in the way he bent his knees made me weak in mine.

Michael Johns was actually my favorite then but that performance to me was quite cringe-worthy. That the judges did the ott pimping of his totally karaoke performance actually made me not like him anymore…So there I was stuck without a favorite male (again I should have seen it coming).

Jason Castro is Jason Castro. Who wouldn’t love him? I never found him to be a contender but I always thought if he could write (and the jury is still out) he could have a career.

Girls:

I loved Syesha’s Tobacco Road. Yep, I did and I’m not a fan of hers. She has a good voice, but I’m not a fan of most that she does.

Aisha was awesome. The girl rocks. That.is.all.

While Carly was my favorite, that wasn’t so good…not at all.

I still love Ramiele’s voice (you can’t take that from me).

Brooke (see Jason comments). You have to be able to write awesome songs. I don’t know to this day that either of them is capable. Come on, surprise me, make me take back my words.

So that’s all I care to comment on. I can’t bother with the rest of them.

I only caught the boys last night. I had completely forgotten the tiff between Chikezie and Simon. Chikezie was insanely lucky that a few performances were as awful as they were. Because I did not like his attitude or performance at all (or his suit–blech).

I can’t be impartial and judge DC again without bias, so I won’t. Except to say…the hair? Still painful.

The OTT pimping of a few was so obvious. As was the dismissal of some who never had a chance (and rightfully so).

I loved Kady Malloy. Still do.

Yeah, wasn’t really feeling David Cook then, although in retrospect, that was a darn good vocal. Looking at Dial Idol, he really could have gone home that week.

KLC – no.

What — no mention of Danny Noriega. Boy really had mad vocal skillz, but also unfortunately, a flair for the mega-overdramatic.

I love little Danny Noriega if only because he and John Peter Lewis were the only two contestants in seven years who could really put Simon over the edge. Heh.

(in order of how I scored them according to judges comments)

Michael: One of the better performances that week.

Archie: Oh my goodness was that out of tune.

Jason: Also one of the better performances. Very charming.

Robbie: Just aw right for me dawg.

DC: Horrible. He looked horrible, the arrangement was horrible, the outfit was horrible. Just horrible. Thank God they stuck with the top 24 arrangement that season. If that were the only performance of his we saw, my life would have been a lot more boring last year.

(skipping a few)

I liked Chikezie’s too.

Luke: I just rewatched it and can’t remember his performance. I was distracted by how pretty he is.

Poor Garrett.

Wasn’t a fan of the girls that week in general.

DA had a great performance this week. Not his best vocal but he was really into it and his smile was just infectious.

Luke was cringeworthy. He was out of tune the entire time. He was lucky to have survived another week.

I don’t know why Garrett was there in the first place. Obvious cannon fodder.

DC’s hair was very distracting. Fortunately his voice made up for it. (The jeans didn’t hurt either. Heh.)

Chikezie’s voice sounded great but I didn’t care for the song choice at all. And I agree with Simon about the suit. Blech.

Jason was my absolute favorite this week. What a great performance!

Michael was okay but I could have done without the hand gestures.

Robbie C. was average. I didn’t find anything worth remembering about that performance.

I didn’t watch the girl’s performances. I’m still mad that Alaina left before the top 12.

Oh, good heavens. As if the season wasn’t painful enough — first season I went online to check out an Idol contestant (DA) Don’t need to review certain opinions, although I appreciate that some of you are looking with fresh eyes.

Guess I know which thread to avoid. Sorry MJ.

I’m having much more fun watching this in retrospect than I did in real time.

It really is pretty amazing to see how much looser and happier DA was that week. I think, as others have said, that the pressure of his frontrunner status started to get to him. But I also think that the elimination of all of the other young ones in the competition had something to do with it. By top 12, he was the only teenager left. By the end he’d obviously gotten closer to the other contestants, but I’m sure it took time for him to feel comfortable as, in essence, the only kid among a bunch of adults. I’m sure it was a little lonely.

I was cracking up watching Ryan interview DC on the couches, knowing the sweat story, because it did look like he was holding his arms tight against his body. I felt the same way about “Happy Together” as I did the first time: good vocals but I could have done without all the mic stand action. (I repeated that sentiment to my husband throughout the season.)

I agree with MJ about Robbie Carrico, although I actually liked it the first time too.

David H has a much better voice than I remembered. Still cheesy as can be though.

And speaking of cheese – good lord, Jason Yeager! He seems like a very nice person, but that performance was so awful – the point, the sideways smile, the knowing head jerk – and that was just from the recap at the end (I had to fast forward the performance)! Painful.

I am having so much fun watching this. I’m not really reliving it because I didn’t watch AI live until Neil Diamond week. However, I have watched the youtubes of most of these.

I also enjoy looking back at the many blogs to see what people’s impressions were at the moment.

So last night mj, I found your original blog on this. You got David right from the beginning:

David Cook – à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“So Happy Togetherà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  by the Turtles – I think Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m officially on the David Cook bandwagon. I really like what heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s doing with this great classic Turtles song. His phrasing, intonation, the way heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s working the stageà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’yeah, I like it. Until now, I thought he was a by-the-numbers rawker, but damned if he doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t put an interesting twist on a great song, despite a couple of pitchy things here and there. Randy is all, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“You worked it out! It was crazy!à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  Paula says, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“You rocked it!à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  Simon says, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“I thought it was good, though you shouted in the middle. You made it almost believable.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  Whatever, Simon. That twirling mic stand thing David does at the end of the number? I really dig that.

MJ, you saw it way before most of us did. Kudos!

BTW, went into the archives to find the original post, just to read some comments. I really enjoy this trip down memory lane before Season 7 becomes history.

ETA: OMG, Cheese, You really didn’t like DC that week. LMAO

ETAA: Sorry, this is too good to pass up. How great is this comment from Judy from the original thread:

Damn – I can see the final three now – the Irish Girl, the Australian and the 17-year-old. Hopefully, there is a sleeper in there somewhere who will take step up to the plate and kick some butt!!

I find it really interesting to rewatch the season after seeing them perform live and meeting them- gives you a whole different perspective. I agree on many of your points, especially about Alaina, Asia’h, and Alexandria. I loved Asia’h and was so dissapointed she did not make it but Kristy and Ramiele did. I’m glad you think Syesha nailed it- I loved her from her audition, and felt she was really underrated. I’ve read many comments from people rewatching the season that they never realized how good she was. I think everyone was blinded by the David’s. Then there is Chikezie- I was most excited about him because I loved his voice and recognized him from past seasons. I was so mad at him that night for talking back to Simon! I forgave him quickly, don’t worry.

So last night mj, I found your original blog on this. You got David right from the beginning:

I was a little taken aback at the time to find that few shared my sentiments about David Cook. LOL. I even said so when I critiqued Alex’s performance the next night:

Alexandrea Lushington – à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Spinning Wheelà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  by Blood Sweat and Tears – I feel like Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m going to have another David Cook moment here. You knowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’where Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m liking a performance all on my own here.

The first two weeks, I figured I’d be championing David pretty much by myself until he was eventually eliminated.

Ha, ha ha ha….

For one, anyone who said DC was TCO last season only needs to watch that weekà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s episodes to be proven wrong. He was almost invisible during the group sing, he was definitely not one of the pimped guys (that honor belongs to Archie, Michael and Jason), and I believe he couldà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve easily been voted off that week.

Jason got pimped Top 24 week but he was virtually unknown before the semis and got ZERO airtime during auditions and Hollywood. He got praise once he actually did start singing but I wouldn’t say he was one of the Chosen Ones at all based on his lack of prior screentime. Archie and MJ for sure I had pegged as TCO.

I loved Kady Malloy. Still do.

Yup me too.

It’s definitely interesting watching all these episodes back. DC grabbed me immediately because of his voice but I forgot what a hot mess he was appearance wise. I forgot how gorgeous Archie’s “Heaven” was in Hollywood.

BTW, I found Danny Noriega Hee-larious. That whole “some people weren’t likin’ it” had me rolling. Even Simon had to smile.

OMG, Cheese, You really didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like DC that week. LMAO

I just went back and read the little anti-Cookie screed that I wrote at the time. I was not impressed. Heh. I think I did protest too much, though, since I started voting for DC 2 weeks later and never looked back. (I voted for Danny the first two weeks!)

I went to Dailymotion (thanks, Temkanoe) and watched a little of it. I still liked MJ’s performance and don’t think he was over-pimped. There’s something about the tone of his voice that was super sexy to me. :wub_tb: I agree that Alaina should have lasted longer than KLC but remember thinking that all of the blondes were better than Kristy even back then.

At some point, I went back to look at posts I did on another blog, and was quite surprised to find that I’d liked DC best of all of the guys Top 24 week. I’d also liked David A, Jason C, and MJ quite a bit that week. I think that I then spent the next three weeks begging for Jason Y, Luke, and Danny to get off my television.

I was not thrilled with very many of the girls that week. Asia’h (who ended up getting tossed from the show because she sang one of the songs of death Top 16 week—Whitney Houston’s I Wanna Dance With Somebody), Alexandrea, and Ramiele were my favorites that week, rounded out with Brooke just because I do like her style of music.

Repeating from the headlines section: Has there ever been a contestant who looked like he was enjoying the group sings as much as Luke Menard? Cracked me up to rewatch that last night.

Jason got pimped Top 24 week but he was virtually unknown before the semis and got ZERO airtime during auditions and Hollywood. He got praise once he actually did start singing but I wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t say he was one of the Chosen Ones at all based on his lack of prior screentime. Archie and MJ for sure I had pegged as TCO.

Oh, I agree, Trina. I didn’t mean to imply Jason was one of the TCOs, just that he was one of very few guys who got rave reviews that week.
I think TCOs were Archie, MJ and Carly at that point.

For one, anyone who said DC was TCO last season only needs to watch that weekà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s episodes to be proven wrong.

Yeah, I don’t think he was at the beginning of the season, but he certainly was TCO by the end.

I wasn’t feelin’ DC early on (I didn’t like Happy Together). I think I started warming up to him after Hello and fully jumped on the bandwagon after Billie Jean.

I was an MJ fan going into Top 24, but I gradually lost interest because I found most of his performances underwhelming.

I’ve always liked Archie, but I really wasn’t seeing what all the fuss was about back then. I thought he was good, but I wasn’t blown away by any of his performances early on. That didn’t happen until later on, towards the end of the season.

I was voting like crazy every week to save Chikezie. I thought some of the backlash against him for “talking back” to Simon was a bit much. Plus, I thought Simon was a jerk for purposely mispronouncing his name and calling him “Jacuzzi”. I’m glad Chikezie had a chance to change people’s minds about him and show that he wasn’t a bad guy after all. I liked David H. as well-I was impressed with his voice during the first couple of weeks of the semis.

I thought Rami was decent in the semis (although I would have put Alexandrea and A’siah in the Top 12 over her and KLC). I just think the bigger stage in the finals swallowed her up and she never recovered.

Still mad about Alexandrea not going further than she did. I thought Alaina was decent too and should have gone further as well. I wasn’t a Carly fan back then, but she grew on me over the course of the season.

Never warmed up to Robbie, Jason Y (corny), or Luke (did not like his singing at all).

Poor Garrett.

This is kinda silly, recomenting on the reruns! Well I hadn’t discovered mjs yet this time last year. And I didn’t see much of AI S7 before the Top 24. I also often did not watch the results shows, so missed those cheestastic group numbers. LOL!

SO let’s see…I liked Archie’s Shop Around. He seemed much more relaxed and into the actual song vs finding something to show off his voice & technical skills. I still thought he had a fantastic voice.

I loved Jason Castro’s performance! Unique, interesting, just adorable. Pleasant & different kind of voice, has some skills, not sure where he will go from here. His biggest strength was how different he was from everyone else. ETA: Yes, breath of fresh air, mj!

Robbie was a bit better than I remembered too. But he was trying too hard.

MJ stood out for me because of his PERFORMANCE. He can sing too, of course. He actually got a little OTT for my taste with Light My Fire. But I liked him a lot.

David…David Cook. I thought the same thing I thought when I caught this performance during the season – WHAT was that? (Little did I know this was David Cook crashing into my staid little life.) He was also one of the few I watched that night. I thought the show was so BORING! BUT I felt kinda like Randy, I think: What was THAT? I don’t know, but I LIKED IT! Wow, never heard that song sung like THAT. Bad bad hair day for the boy, but what a cutie under that hair. And LOVE THAT VOICE. I didn’t hear any pitch problems either. He seemed SO stressed though…when not singing. Seemed like he was thinking WTF am I doing HERE? But onstage, well, he belonged there.

I think Cook and Jason stood out for me, followed by Archie (the “voice”) and Johns (for his PERFORMING mainly).

I couldn’t watch all the girls, sorry! I thought Carly was screechy and sharp and boring. She looked so ANGRY most of the time! She probably wasn’t, but that’s how her appearance struck me. I thought a couple others were better than the judges thought they were, but I can’t remember their names now. Ramiele was better than KLC at this point, I thought. I did NOT like Brook’s Happy Together at all. I was mightily distracted by her trying to figure out what to do with herself onstage. Mostly, I thought the girls sang too many ballads and tried too hard; out of tune, screechy, boring.

Yeah, I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think he was at the beginning of the season, but he certainly was TCO by the end.

I guess that depends on the definition one uses for TCO.
You see it as “anyone the producers are backing and showcasing”, but some knollers (and me, in this case) take it to mean “someone chosen ahead of time by producers as the designated winner”. Based on that definition, a TCO would have to be chosed pre-season, otherwise, if the contestant rises based on the merit of his own performance, that’s organic and not a result of preconceived manipulation.

I don’t think you can be a dark horse and TCO at the same time, unless one buys into the whole “stealth-TCO” idea, which I don’t. At least not for DCook. I honestly don’t think anyone on AI saw what he had in him or considered him a real contender until Hello.

I agree, Jolene. After Imagine made it seem like this was a one-man race, one of my favorite TV commentators, Alan Sepinwall, did a column that basically said that Idol had to make a strategic decision as to how to play things in order to try to keep the audience interested: either celebrate the fact that DA was the frontrunner by a country mile by basically promoting, can he run the table and win the whole damn thing? or else identify someone to be the dark horse contestant and say, hey, can this contestant possibly derail the DA train? I believe that was right before Hello, but it was definitely before Eleanor Rigby—after which Paula called DC “the dark horse.” And there you go.

And DC actually was, I think, a dark horse. My guess is that TPTB always expected him to make Top 12, maybe even go some distance there, but they didn’t expect Top 4 from him. It seemed more like they were thinking DA, MJ, Carly, and maybe another girl (Brooke, Ramiele, Syesha, KLC). But then he kept putting up one of the best performances every week at least from Top 16 forward, other than Top 8. With the exception of Top 10 (Billie Jean week), while his ranking on Dial Idol was generally pretty good most weeks, from Top 24 through Top 8, DC was always one of the contestants whose margin of error put him at risk of the Bottom 3. Many weeks, only DA was outside of that risk. As of Top 7, though, DC shot forward, and never looked back.

The first two weeks, I figured Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d be championing David pretty much by myself until he was eventually eliminated.

LOL. I remember that. I actually think I remember you coming into chat after his performance and saying you liked it, and almost everyone else was kinda meh (or downright hated it. *cough*cheese*cough* ). LOL.

I’d liked David from his audition but he wasn’t my overall favorite until the 2nd week of the semi’s. Then I jumped on the bandwagon full force, no holds barred, no looking back, any other cliched phrase you can think of. Heh.

I haven’t rewatched these 5 hours yet. They’re sitting on my DVR so I’ll be doing that this afternoon and tonight. However, I do remember that I actually liked David Archuleta during week 1 of the semi’s but the OTT pimping from the judges the next week was what turned me off for good.

I even remember my voting patterns in the semis, because it pretty much mirrors the timing of the shift of my favorite contestants. MJ was my initial favorite from his audition, so the first week of the semi’s I voted mostly for him, with other votes thrown to DC, DA, DH, Jason, and Luke (eyecandy FTW!). The second week, I voted about equally for DC and MJ, with some votes thrown to DH, Jason, and Luke. Then the third week, it was completely switched – I voted mostly for DC, with some votes thrown to MJ, DH, Jason, Luke, and Danny. Then, in the top 12, it was DC and DC only until the end – although I occasionally threw some votes to Jason, Carly, Brooke, and MJ with second phones.

Based on that definitaion, a TCO would have to be chosed pre-season, otherwise, if the contestant rises based on the merit of his own performance, thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s organic and not a result of preconceived manipulation.

I completely understand your definition and what you are saying. And I do think that there are those who fall into that category. I just have a hard time when someone who performs really well is begrudged the praise they receive because they are perceived to be TCO. Now if they deliver a stinker and the judges praise them, that sucks. But if they sing well and the judges love it, then they deserve the praise as much as the underdog. The annoying behavior of TPTB should not diminish the merit of a great performance, but it often does.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that being TCO can be a big challenge because you have a lot to live up to and just as much to live down.

eta: This does not mean that I don’t have a lot of admiration for DC, because he did come out of nowhere and prove himself worthy to win.

However, I do remember that I actually liked David Archuleta during week 1 of the semià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s but the OTT pimping from the judges the next week was what turned me off for good

See, that’s what I was talking about when I said that TCO status is a lot to live down. Of course, when it’s your favorite (as DA was mine) then the praise rarely seems OTT … but even I wanted to tell the judges to zip it sometimes because I knew that it wasn’t doing him any favors.

Lefty, I agree that there is pressure either way. If you’re the big frontrunner, or even one of the frontrunners, you have pressure to perform, because if you’re not the best one particular week, people can be more critical. Plus, if you are viewed as “TCO,” people may become sensitive to you being praised and, whether you deserve it or not, you could find viewers discounting the praise that you got. Look at Carly: Simon basically said Top 24 week, hey, there’s buzz about you, why the hell aren’t you proving equal to the buzz? Look at DA: Just above, there’s someone saying that they became annoyed by the praise for Imagine.

On the other hand, for someone who is not in the “promoted” group at the outset, while you don’t have the pressure of having to perform to frontrunner expectations, you do have the problem of trying to make yourself standout, which can be difficult, particularly in the early going, when there are so many people on that stage. Obviously, it can be done. DC did it. Jason Castro did it, and basically, before Top 24, all you really had of him on screen were little snippets when he was in the background, his low-key reaction to making Top 24, and his portion of the silly dance montage. But it really puts additional burden on the less promoted contestants to stand out in the crowd.

Sarah: “Luke (eyecandy FTW!)” I once described Luke as Haley Scarnato for straight women. I stand by that statement.

I haven’t paid much attention to the S8 spoilers, but I hope that Kyle (the politician-guy) tried out again. He should have made it into the top-24. I liked that farm-boy guy too.

I just can’t help thinking when I see Luke Menard that he likely already had the cancer that he would be diagnosed with in only a few more months. I want to shake him & say, “Dude, I know you feel fine now, but please go see your doctor! Trust me!”

You see it as à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“anyone the producers are backing and showcasingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , but some knollers (and me, in this case) take it to mean à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“someone chosen ahead of time by producers as the designated winnerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think you can be a dark horse and TCO at the same time, unless one buys into the whole à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“stealth-TCOà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  idea, which I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t.

OMG, that’s so complicated! Haha, I don’t think I can last on the knoll– what’s a stealth-TCO? Sounds dangerous…

I guess I subscribe to the first definition of TCO, so I guess that kinda means I believe that each season, the producers start out with at least a handful of TCOs since they back and showcase a bunch. In that sense, DC was definitely one of those, since he was showcased a little in Hollywood, at least in terms of screentime, if not praise. I remembered Archie, MJ, Carly, Ramiele, Brooke, Syesha, Amanda, Danny, KLC, As’iah, and DC all got varying degrees of auditions/Hollywood coverage. They all got a chance to make a bit of an impression before voting, which means they at least weren’t invisible to the producers, ala Jason Castro, who pretty much belonged with cannon fodder (the four week 1 eliminees). Luke, Jason Y, Alexandrea, Alaina… I don’t remember seeing any singing clips of them during Hollywood, so they were nearly invisible.

I’m not a knoller, so I tend to think the TCO and producer manipulation stuff is concentrated in the early weeks before the voting begins, because they can choose to showcase certain contestants over others, but once they go live, the public decides, so overt manipulation is pretty limited. Sure, they could feed the judges positive/negative comments to pimp/trash certain contestants, but the public doesn’t always vote accordingly so it’s more of a crapshoot. I’m also not that cynical, cuz I think producers choose to showcase contestants in auditions/Hollywood week based on a combination of who would make good TV (Josiah, As’iah, Syesha and her cards), and who really did well in Hollywood (Archie, MJ, Ramiele, and Carly seemed to really impress the judges).

See, thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s what I was talking about when I said that TCO status is a lot to live down.

It wasn’t that he was TCO. It was that I didn’t like the performance because I thought he totally missed the meaning of the song in his interpretation, thus the OTT pimping turned me off because I did not agree with them at all.

Well, it appears I’m allowing myself to get caught up in this rerun stuff, which I really didn’t want to do! lol. Only have a few to comment on….

DC – I didn’t like him at all. It’s only in hindsight that I can appreciate this performance now. His voice really was special even then, but I just couldn’t “hear” it yet. After Billie Jean though, I was totally in his corner. One thing I don’t like about DC to this day is that scrunchy face he makes when he goes high or loud, but that is just a personal observation of my own. Btw, I’m sure I’m alone on that observation, lol. He was better looking back then than I had remembered. Love his CD.

DA – I loved Shop Around, still do. My favorite part of that night with him though was the bantering with Ryan, the elbow poke to Ryan and Ryans elbow poke back cracked me up! DA has matured a little in his looks since then I believe. He was my early favorite. Love his CD also.

Jason – I loved, loved, loved Daydreaming Boy. He instantly became my favorite at that performance. I noticed his dreads looked better back then, fatter and neater. He’s let them get too long and skinny, lol.

DH – Much better than I had remembered.

MJ – Appeared cleaner, fresh-faced, nice hair back then. He seemed to get sloppier in his appearance as AI continued week to week. Just my opinion. Was never a fav, but obviously has a good voice.

JY – Too polished, and it’s kind of sad to think being too polished is bad. I couldn’t see him as being THE american idol, but did think he had a nice voice.

DN and the rest of the guys – Meh. Didn’t see any standouts.

I thought the top girls were all fair, but nobody had yet stood out imo except the tatooed girl and the Carly Simon girl, as I knew them then, lol

It wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t that he was TCO. It was that I didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like the performance because I thought he totally missed the meaning of the song in his interpretation, thus the OTT pimping turned me off because I did not agree with them at all.

I did love that performance, thought it was beautiful, and still thought, “good lord, was it THAT good?” The judges seemed a little OTT even for me.

I get what you are saying, but I still think that we wouldn’t be referring to it as “OTT pimping” if he weren’t considered a chosen one. I think it would have been more like, “What is in Paula’s cup?” and on to the next week.

I’m actually really interested in this whole TCO idea because I was nearly new to AI this year (and definitely new to the whole AI blog scene), and it took me three weeks to even figure out what “TCO” stood for. So what do I know?

RE: Alaina Whitaker

Poor Alaina can do noting that she hasn’t already done.

Her main problem — SHE LOOK’s TOO MUCH LIKE CARRIE UNDERWOOD ( just google images.google.com and type in her name ).

We can only have one Carrie.

Alaina’s problem reminded me of one other contestant in Fantasia’s season — Lisa Leuschner. She, by all rights should have been in the top 12. She was an EXCELLENT singer. However, her style reminded everyone of Kelly Clarkson, and we can only have one Kelly Clarkson.

The rule — BE UNIQUE and MEMORABLE still applies. Talent is only one factor in this contest.

Like it or not (for better or worse) — that is what made Taylor Hicks stand out. I don’t think there can be anyone like him.

DH – Much better than I had remembered.

Agree. I thought Hernandez was very under-rated.

Loved Happy Together that voice at the beginning of the song is killer & that is where DC drew me in. I think this is when I found *Creep* (K.I.L.L.E.R) on the net. *sigh*. :help_tb:

DC was never TCO. Dark horse yes and only because he made them sit up and listen with Hello. I do think it was obvious midway that DC & DA were their two favorites & DC only because he kept nailing songs. If anyone was on DC’s band wagon from beginning to end it would be Paula. Simon came around later on. I think Simon was blown away with DC’s Eleanor Rigby & that is why he said “If this remains a talent competition rather than a popularity contest, you could win the whole thing.” Simon was back off the DC train the next week & stayed off & on for the rest of the season. Randy was on his train a few times how could he not be when DC kept knocking them out of the park? Pauler tho was pretty much on that train.

I always thought Alaina was better than all the blondes. I think the reason she got booted was she sorta resembled Carrie & there was no need for another although she sounded nothing like Carrie.

Alexandrea, never got why she was booted. She was really talented.

I remember Garrett being my bathroom break.

I soooo wanted to be behind Luke because he reminded me of my favorite elven guy, Orlando Bloom, but he left me cold.

I agree with MJ that Rami’s performance of You don’t have to say, was the only one I can remember where she truly stood out.

Loved Jason’s Daydream.

Darn I wish my local Cox cable had Fox Reality.

I think viewing certain people as TCO may vary depending on many factors. Going into the season there was so much talk about Carly and Michael I had them both down as favorites, especially Carly since she was the infamous “Irish Girl” Simon was raving about in season 4. However, my niece, who doesn’t frequent the internet and is a more casual AI viewer thought DC was a contender even before the show started. Why? Because he was featured in two commercials. First his audition was highlighted, then there was that Hollywood week commercial that first aired during the Super Bowl. At a Superbowl party that night when we realized he was also in one of the audition promos my niece said “he’s going to be one to watch for, why else would they keep showing this guy”. Then she started rooting for Archie after “Shop Around” and just focused on him and thought by “Imagine” he was indeed the favorite, then “Billie Jean” happened and she was all “SEE I told you he’s the one the show wants to win” ROTFL

For me something changed with DC after BJ, and I had a tiny inking IGB night things may have shifted in his favor.

I’m glad I am not the only one re-watching Season 7 because I can, lol. It was great and they all look really cute in the group number. Even Amanda look less scary with the longer hair. I don’t think that she should of made it into the top 12 though.

Yeah that was Rami’s best performance, why did she go downhill from there?

My Archie love started right here, even though I could tell he was really nervous. I was liking Danny too, lol. He would of been a fun addition to the top 12, he could of replaced KLC and pass for one of the girls.

Yeah they got the top 6 guys right but KLC/Amanda/Rami could of been replaced by AlexAndrea/Alaina/Asiah, oh well. Too many blondes, I think I got some of them mixed up, lol. I didn’t like Brooke on this performance and when she kept playing with her hair I was thinking of the “Herbal Essence” commercial, lol.

Castro was da bomb of course as well as Cookie, Michael, and Archie. Eze was so boring and the suit was hideous. Colton Berry wasn’t that bad, I think he should of make it another week. I didn’t like Syesha at all but the girl does have some amazing vocals. Carly was good but not great. AlexAndrea was the best of the night next to Rami.

There were so many fodders and boring performances that put me to sleep. Where the heck did they get Garrett? He looked like he was going to cry the whole time the judges were talking to him. Why didn’t they put through Kyle, Drew (the country boy), or Shaun B. I was like why oh why, it’s like they knew who the top 12 was already. Duh of course they did.

It was fun watching it again though and I knew the moment when Cookie took over the front runner status from Archie. Darn that “Hello” and “Billie Jean”, lol. It’s all good because there was finally a competition. Yeah I think Michael should of saved BohemRap for later on. Archie should of saved “Imagine” from top 12 too, but it’s all history now.

For me something changed with DC after BJ, and I had a tiny inking IGB night things may have shifted in his favor.

After MJ was booted, DC definitely became one of the producers favorites.

do think it was obvious midway that DC & DA were their two favorites & DC only because he kept nailing songs.

I’m sure the producers knew about all the CDs he’d done, his band experience(s), his accomplishments in the indie music scene in Tulsa, etc, so that all likely helped their confidence in him somewhat even when he didn’t knock it out of the park Hollywood week like some others, or before Hello, really.

I also have this other theory that DC was on their radar because he built behind the scenes goodwill with the staff and fellow contestants, and Nigel and the producers noticed. I remembered that Debra Byrd and the other backup singers all had positive things to say about DC even early on (I had caught up on all the TV guide Idol coverage post-win, but don’t remember where I found them). I think Kim Caldwell or Justin even asked Byrd specifically about Simon’s comment about DC being vulnerable without his guitar, and Byrd confidently said that she felt DC wasn’t phased, and was the type of guy who takes a comment like that as a challenge, and implied that he had a lot of potential that he hadn’t tapped into yet. That bit stuck with me, because I remembered being impressed that Byrd had been so prescient about DC’s capabilities and the way he would come to attack the competition as a whole (take criticisms as a challenge). She definitely saw things back then none of us did (well, I guess MJ did, too because she wasn’t distracted by the bad hair and weird winking like we were =P). Sidenote: my theory about people like Byrd and the staff’s influence also bleeds into why I thought Josiah was eliminated (he didn’t work well with the band– Byrd’s been their since the beginning, and if she didn’t think he could handle the pressures of AI, it’s a pretty big deal).

I guess that depends on the definition one uses for TCO.
You see it as à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“anyone the producers are backing and showcasingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , but some knollers (and me, in this case) take it to mean à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“someone chosen ahead of time by producers as the designated winnerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ .

I’m a “knoller” as well (and I think season eight is going to be downright knollerific-heh), but my definition of TCO is “someone who TPTB want as their winner”. I think that can change over the course of a season. I think it happened in season five (I don’t think Daughtry was TCO all along), and I think it happened last season as well. I kinda believe that there can be “stealth TCOs”, but I don’t think that DC was one. I think DC changed some minds with his performances and TPTB switched horses by the middle of the season. Looking back, I’m not even sure that Archie was TCO in the beginning even though he was heavily pimped. I just wonder if the producers would have really wanted someone to win who was similar to the previous season’s winner (Jordin). I’m thinking Michael Johns may have been the original S7 CO, but that’s just my theory.

I don’t think that it is a coincidence that the makeover, with the haircut, occurred after BJ. Then after his own arrangement of LS went over well and the makeover led to people on the web saying, “Wait, a minute, how did I miss that that guy was hot?” you see DC in the IGB group numbers with real starring moments. (Yes, in the Top 24 group sing, they did have him sing the power note at the end, but he was practically in another room during that performance.) After Top 7/ABMB, DC starts a run of being the contestant always in the center of the official group photo, as well as really getting starring roles in the group performances.

So, my viewpoint of the season: They always liked DC’s voice and thought that they’d like him to be in the Top 12, but he wasn’t really a favorite of the producers at the outset. They saw him as a convenient dark horse with Hello and Eleanor Rigby. And then came BJ and they said, damn, we want this guy to hang in at least to the top 4, especially with all of these itunes sales. So makeover. Then they increasingly supported DC as the season went on, with ABMB being the tipping point for them really wanting the 2 Davids to be the top 2, and maybe thinking that that was close to inevitable at that point.

With DC and DA’s early success post idol, it’s good to know that the cream of the crop did finally rise to the top. American really did get it right with AI7 imo.

I remember thinking after this week that final three would be Rami, DA and MJ…err…one out of three’s not horrible?
I love “You Don’t Have to Say You Love Me” but Rami never came close to that point again.
I thought both “Happy Together”‘s from Brooke and Cook were quite weird to be honest. And I’m a Brooke fan, but I think it was one of her weakest. Cook’s wasn’t terrible but my he improved.
As for DA and “Shop Around”, I loved that performance and the simple joy he had. While I loved almost all of his performances, I definitely think the stress of the competition took a toll on him. Watching him perform live now, I see a lot of the joy from that first performance – just in a much more polished package. He has really grown and matured a lot since that night.
KLC was not good at all. Alaina was underrated but I don’t think she would have ever made it very far in the top 12 because, as others have said she comes off as a Carrie Underwood knock off.
Garrett Haley’s performance was pretty scary.

I don’t think DA was the original TCO either. I think that belonged to Carly. Carly just did not go over well to the general audience so TPTB had to regroup. I think MJ was a close second to being TCO with DA third. Bringing up 4th place DC, but that did not start until after his performance of Billie Jean & the resulting transormation we all saw on Little Sparrow (hair).

I think TPTB did alot of scrambling and “WTF’s?” last season.

ETA.. Folk they did start doing something with DC’s hair after his first song. They tried combing it a different way for the next, then shortening it a tad after another. Really spiking it on another, and then finally a total redo. I think they were preparing him for the final redo by getting him used to them messing with it, lol.

He has really grown and matured a lot since that night.

Seriously, he looked like a baby compared to the way he looks now.

You want to amuse yourself mightily? Watch DC’s Happy Together followed by either the Light On video or one of his recent live performances, especially one sans guitar, such as one of the Declaration performances. I liked HT, and still, it’s like a completely different world, even setting aside the hair. I’m looking forward to doing the same thing with All Right Now. I think that ARN followed by LO video or the Leno LO performance or just about any performance of Bar Ba Sol could be a very entertaining contrast.

AI really is rock/pop star boot camp, for a contestant who is willing and able to learn from it.

My thoughts on all this TCO talk: MJ and Carly were the original TCO’s. Even in the finale, they were the only ones not in the top 5 to have a performance out of the group numbers. Poor 7th-placer KLC didn’t even have one, but the 8th placer (MJ) did. The great fan response towards the Davids were what made the producers push for them, in contrast to MJ and Carly who were pushed by the producers to the people but garnered little fan response.

Oh yeah. I’m watching too. As if AI7 hasn’t already taken over my life so completely this past year.

But it is interesting to realize how much my memory of this first week held up upon a second viewing. Interestingly, with the exception of Archie, my first impressions of the contestants pretty much stayed with me through the full season.

First of all, it was evident from the start that the boys were miles more interesting than the girls. KLC was a train wreck but Barbie-pretty so the judges (and America) were clearly going to give her a pass. I liked Brooke. Liked the A’s (Asi’ah and Alexand’rea and Alaina), and thought Carly had potential but just looked so stiff and mean up there. Still, I remember on results night barely being able to tell the girls apart, whereas I had very strong reactions to most of the guys.

Poor Garret looked like something out of Children of the Corn. I knew he was road kill in waiting. Luke sucked but even then I remember saying he’d get through on the pretty. Jason Yeager was boring and annoyed me for invoking his kid and his dead grandmother for sympathy. Danny was sassy and could sing, as could David H. Robbie sang well but was always such a poseur he made me want to wretch.

But I adored Jason. He was just so different than anything I had ever seen on Idol. He was immediately one of my favorites and his lovely ‘Daydream’ helped me continue to support him through some of the ups and downs he had over the coming weeks.

I kinda wanted to like Michael more than I ever really did. He had all the goods, but even from this first week I felt that he wasn’t quite living up to his potential. He just wasn’t connecting. And boy, were those flames behind him OTT.

Archie gave what was and remains my favorite performance of his. He was just so joyful and cute up there, and I thought he would be one of my favorites even though I bristled a bit at how much he was being pimped. Personally, I always found him endearing. But for me his performances declined steadily throughout the season into uncomfortable schmaltz (yes, including the much-lauded ‘Imagine’). But his talent is evident, and it was fun to see this performance again.

And Cook. It was his personality that first impressed me, and continued to add to his appeal throughout the season. That little half-smile in the Coke room when Ryan said he looked cool and confident, and he said “well, I’m glad I’m pulling something off.” I just thought he was interesting. As was his spin on HT, and his confidence on stage (which was only a hint of what was to come). The hair is more cringe-inducing in retrospect, since starting the next week I found him to be just sex on a stick. But ultimately I was bummed because I liked him a lot but thought he was fodder and didn’t think he’d be with us for long.

Really interesting to watch this and think about how the season progressed and ultimately ended.

ETA: Damn. Did I just write a dissertation about a re-run of an Idol semi-final episode? OK. Must go get a life now.

FolkFan…I’ve actually done the comparison and you’re right. Also, compare DA, the ballad boy who they thought could never do pop, to his current songs.
Amazing transformations out there in the real world for those two. Of course, in their defense, they were often stuck with “theme weeks” to work out which had to be difficult at times. That, and I understand they don’t always get to perform the song they picked. I am just so proud of DC and DA. Does it show? lol lol.

I ´m not watching the episode again  ´cause I have a problem with my cable and I ´m too lazy to look for all the performance…but I will comment on this…

DA – I loved Shop Around, still do. My favorite part of that night with him though was the bantering with Ryan, the elbow poke to Ryan and Ryans elbow poke back cracked me up! DA has matured a little in his looks since then I believe. He was my early favorite.

I watch this part in youtube like a zillion times it was really hillarious…I agree with what people have said, the front runner status take the fun of Archie ´s performance, mostly because he feel all the eyes were on him, he said so in an interview back in the AI tour time… still is nice to see him grow up and gaining new fans… still Shop Around was my all time favorite performance from him in AI becuase it was cute, it was natural and no matter how many times I see it still fun…

Cruz I thought that was so cute! I think the David’s were so endearing.

For me on DC I loved it after Eleanor Rigby when he could not contain his excitement over the big stage/big audience/playing for them, that he slaps his leg a few times then yells WooHoo. I loved it that he let that enthusiasm overtake him. He also let it show a couple more times later on in the season, but then someone reigned him back in and he never really let it all out again. Shame, it was really endearing.

ETA: Damn. Did I just write a dissertation about a re-run of an Idol semi-final episode? OK. Must go get a life now.

I thoroughly enjoyed your dissertation, ladymadonna, so please don’t let getting a life stop you from writing more of these? (:

Everyone debated the TCO thing, so I won’t dive back into it, except to say that I still think neither MJ nor Carly were supposed to win. On some level I don’t think AI is ready for someone with an accent to become the next American Idol. Maybe that’s just me being a cynic, and maybe I’m wrong.
I think they were probably meant to go the distance, possibly all the way to runners up to Archie, but not win.

I hope that you don’t get a life any time soon, LadyM. I enjoy your dissertations.

A lot of joy went out of the contestants as the season wore on. I don’t know how much of that was the pressure, the themes, the fact that buddies were leaving the show (I think that MJ leaving was especially hard on DC, along with Chikezie and Carly), the increasing sense of “hey, I could win this,” and the sheer workload, which with the expanded IGB week and itunes recordings, seemed even heavier than usual this year.

To put it in context, as the winner of the show, DC performed a total of 21 different songs (including Magic Rainbow) in the competition, ten of which he also performed on guitar, which was a boon for him but also additional work. He recorded full-length versions of 11 songs. Kelly Clarkson, as the winner of AI1, performed a total of 13 songs, including one reprise, and did not have the recording obligations. DC (along with the various other contestants) performed group songs Top 24, Top 20, Top 12, Top 11, Top 10, Top 9, Top 8 (3, plus a reprise), Top 7, Top 6, Top 5, Top 4, Top 3, and Top 2 (4, including the duet with DA, plus the ZZ Top performance). That’s a lot of work to stuff into the AI season.

It probably didn’t help matters that you had a couple of contestants who seemed on the verge of collapsing the last few weeks. How much the sheer workload contributed to that is an open question.

BTW: In citing the instruments and itunes recording, I’m not denying that they were opportunities that helped some of these performers to get as far as they did. But they did add to the workload on these contestants, and there did not seem to be any compensation for that in terms of the rest of the schedule. If anything, the schedule this year was heavier than in many past years.

I missed season 7 the first time around, and watched it off the tubeys, so I’m thoroughly enjoying the cheesefest that is AI7 redux.

David Cook’s hair is truly hideous. My jaw dropped when Rami said that the best thing was hair and make up. So a professional hair stylist actually took a flat iron to him and thought he was presentable? For realz? And the red plastic shades he’s wearing as he’s walking on the tarmac? GAK. DC, thank goodness his voice shown through all that hair and wardrobe stuff. He sure did clean up nicely. It’s almost like watching a movie when you know that cinderfella is purposely wearing sack cloth and ashes, and there’ll be this huge reveal like on Trading Places. Heh.

I think Simon is always toughest on those he sees with the most potential. He’s a sadistic SOB but he does enjoy lighting a fire. It’s the ones who glean the constructive criticism and raise their games who win: see Clarkson, Kelly and Cook, David. Simon poked, and they elevated their game. I think Cady could have done better, and was capable of a much stronger performance. Loved her voice more than some of the top 12. Carly just crumbled under his criticism and just caved in on herself. She’s talented and has some pipes, but could not play this AI game to save her life. My favorite performances of hers when she’s tender and has control over her pipes: see Blackbird or Here You Come Again. Oftentimes she was just too shouty and snarly for my tastes, Carly has some serious talent but needs a serious vocal coach.

Um, the girls were just bad. At least the boys were entertaining. I was surprised that Aaisha and Cady were cut so early, because they blew KLC and Rami away, IMO. It’s remarkable to see how strong and brave Brooke was then before her unfortunate meltdown. Same as Jason. Archie was delightful and seemed to be enjyoing himself. Seeing Amanda and Archie on the same stage, and knowing now how Archie was scared of her made me laugh. DC was very strong but clearly still watching, learning, and processing; good but not awesome as he will soon be.

I STILL do not understand the hype around MJ. Seriously, the man screams lounge lizard karoake to me. He never grew or changed. That was exactly how he performed at Newark. Who is the real MJ? I still don’t get him.

“Poor Garret looked like something out of Children of the Corn. I knew he was road kill in waiting.”

^^ This LOL funny. Hee!

Man, I skipped these when they originally ran and now I remember why — too many kids, they all blend together, and each ep is 2 hrs long! I sat thru the boys and couldn’t stomach sitting thru another 2 hrs of the girls (I ff’d to just watch performances).

Maybe it’s familiarity factor but the only guy performances that I liked were of those who made it to top 10 (plus David H….I remember thinking he had a good voice early on): Michael, Jason, and Archie. Honestly, if Archie had kept up with the fun uptempo songs he could have won the season no problem. I LOL’d at MJ’s very literal backdrop to Light My Fire. Even at that point he was more great performance than good vocal imo.

I was really surprised, knowing now what a nice, soft-spoken guy Chikezie is, at the back and forth he had with Simon. A lot of the kids seemed to have more personality back then, I dunno if the producers egged them on to talk back to the judges. They certainly got quieter as the season went on (pressure? smacked down by Simon?)

DC…um, sorry DC. Still cringeworthy to me (the hair, the outfit, the smile, iccck). Vocal was good though. I’ll admit, most of the fun for me will be watching how DC goes on to become the hot smokin’ lava bomb that took over the season.

The girls: zzzzzzzzzzzzz (plus I was watching pretty late at night so I was tired already anyway.) Rami had a great vocal, I liked Alexandrea, probably not as impressed with Asia’h as other people (great personality/stage presence though). Carly just seemed loud and oversinging to me (my overall impression for the whole season.)

LOVED Syesha’s performance.

Simon was right, too many blondes

It wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t that he was TCO. It was that I didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like the performance because I thought he totally missed the meaning of the song in his interpretation, thus the OTT pimping turned me off because I did not agree with them at all.

I disagree that David missed the meaning of the song in his interpretation of Imagine. The song means a lot to Archie (then and now) and it wasn’t even important to him that it wasn’t a 100% technically flawless performance because he was just feeling it and not really thinking it would be such a big deal to some people.

Maybe Randy and Paula were OTT in their praise (although I do think they were feeling what he brought to that song emotionally, especially Paula) but it was Simon who condemned David that night and ensured he wouldn’t win. Simon has since admitted that he had ulterior motives with his choice of words.

Other Unpopular Opinion: Cook was always a favorite to win but they were smart enough not to make it obvious early on (except to those who are super observant which would not be me as I see this more in hindsight). That’s not to say that he didn’t deserve to win. He did. It’s just that they knew how to play their cards right with him and he stepped up when they needed him to (for the most part.) They didn’t want to make the same mistakes they made with Daughtry.

Simon and the producers wanted to create drama to make the win more meaningful and they did. That’s evident in his self-satisfied smile on finale night. Should be interesting to see what kind of drama he has cooked up for season eight.

“

I have been lurking on here for months and figured I finally would post. After rewatching Hollywood week and Top 24, I didnt realize the first time I watched this just how much they pimped DA, MJ, and Carly from early on. I have never watched AI before but from what everyone is saying, they do this every season. My favorite going into top 24 was MJ and DA. I had noticed DC during auditions but not that much and oh that hair. (what was he thinking) But I must say when I saw DC on the Top 24, that is when he actually become one of my favorites and after “Hello” my only favorite. I think if they had shown DC singing “I’ll be” from Hollywood week, he may have been my favorite going into top 24. TPTB just really didn’t see him coming. I loved his version of HT and how can you not love that half smile. For some reason I lost interest in DA. I always thought he was a good singer but DC was just more my kind of singer and of course David Cooks looks certainly didn’t hurt either.

MJ to me was way over hyped, he could sing good enough but he always seemed kind of awkward up there on stage and never really got any better.

I thought Alaina got voted off way too soon also.

Katy Malloy – I loved her and her impersonation of Britney. I actually thought her top 24 performance was pretty good.

DA – I loved him singing “shop around” and also what someone else wrote ” My favorite part of that night with him though was the bantering with Ryan, the elbow poke to Ryan and Ryans elbow poke back cracked me up!” He was so adorable during this. Sorry I dont know how to do the quote thing yet. But once he hit the big stage I didnt get anything out of his performances.

I also liked Robbie and Luke but it was probably more for their looks than their singing.

I never got why everyone was so crazy for Jason Castro or Brooke but I guess it may have been their uniqueness that was so appealing.

I liked DA’s Top 20 Imagine performance—I think that I put it as the best of the week in my rankings back then. But I had a lot of friends who did not like it as an interpretation of that particular song.

There were similar things going on with Eleanor Rigby and Baba O’Riley for Cook—I loved both of those performances, but a number of people had particular perspectives on the interpretation of those songs, and the fact that DC diverged from those interpretations bothered those people. I felt like the interpretations were valid, but not everyone did.

It’s part of the risk/reward thing with doing a well-known song, particularly one that has some depth to its meaning. If you do the standard version, then you may seem karaoke. If you do a new interpretation, you may alienate people.

Funny, I distinctly remember watching Cook that week and putting him into the “can sing – possible contender” category. I didn’t give a second thought to his look because I always depend on the Top 12 makeover wizards to kick in. I was also on full Hot Aussie watch at that point, nothing was going to pull my laser-like focus from that. I think by the time I commented on here, I forgot about Cookie. LOL.

Other Unpopular Opinion: Cook was always a favorite to win but they were smart enough not to make it obvious early on (except to those who are super observant which would not be me as I see this more in hindsight).

To whomever asked – this is what “stealth TCO” means. I go with “Hindsight is 20-20″, personally.
When you know how things turn out, it’s very easy to build a nerrative to compliment your theory. Looking at the episodes, though, the signs simply aren’t there to support it. How close DC actually came to going home on Top 24 is enough to tell me that no one gave a damn at that point how far he makes it.

Heh, and I thought I was done with the TCO talk. Sorry.

I think Simon is always toughest on those he sees with the most potential. Heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a sadistic SOB but he does enjoy lighting a fire. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s the ones who glean the constructive criticism and raise their games who win: see Clarkson, Kelly and Cook, David

That reminds me of something Simon said once in the New York Post back on May 4th:

On 16-year-old David Archuleta being the inevitable winner: “I could’ve kept my mouth shut when David sang ‘Imagine.’ When he sang that song, it became quite obvious to me that it would be a miracle for this guy not to win. So I said it because I wanted every one of the other contestants to know that if you want to beat this guy, you’ve got to do something spectacular. I wanted to see who’s got the steel in their eyes to take on the challenge. And I really saw that in one person, and that was David Cook.”

Cook, in fact, is one of the only singers who has shaken the look of boredom off of Cowell’s face. “David Cook doing ‘Billy Jean’ was a moment I don’t think I’ll ever forget because it was different,” he says. “And then I hear other people coming on doing karaoke versions of songs and I can’t get excited.”

Wow Trina – very interesting quote that I had not seen. Thanks

I am glad we have this thread as I am enjoying rewatching – yes I have no life.

Jason was my fav this week – don’t think I really noticed DC much – liked MJ and DA but not their pimping.

Bored with the girls – didn’t even tape it.

DA, MJ, Carly and Jason were my favorites in the beginning. Then DC came out of nowhere with “Hello” and absolutely blew me away. There was no turning back.

One of the reasons I am not watching the rebroadcast of AI is that I know this show is a scripted variety show masquerading as a reality talent show. Yes, fans can vote but if the producers don’t like how the voting is going, they easily manipulate the show to get their desired results.

Sometimes it’s as easy as the way they shoot the show. Who gets the glamour close ups and who gets long shots and “rear” shots?

Who gets a good sound mix and who gets wonky sound. Who does bandzilla drown out?

What kinds of questions does Ryan ask? Does he make the contestant comfortable or rattle the person to make them look tongue tied?

Who gets most of their song requests cleared and who has roadblocks put in their way every step of the way?

I could go on for pages, but I will spare you.
I would just encourage those watching the rewind to notice these things.

But that’s half the fun of discussing the show, luckee

I disagree that David missed the meaning of the song in his interpretation of Imagine. The song means a lot to Archie (then and now) and it wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t even important to him that it wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t a 100% technically flawless performance because he was just feeling it and not really thinking it would be such a big deal to some people.

I still stand that he missed the meaning of the song in his interpretation, and IMO, his comment in response to Simon on top 16 week proves that – when Simon said that it was getting a little “gloomy” and criticized him for doing two sad songs in a row, his response was “Imagine is a sad song?” To me, “Imagine” is not a hopeful song, and that interpretation of it is what I took away from his performance. I didn’t care for that particular spin because imo, it did not fit the essence of what the song is about. So, the fawning praise was just really OTT for me. Obviously, your mileage varies, and that’s cool. We all take away different things from performances. I’m just saying that I didn’t connect with his interpretation, because that’s not how I personally interpret the song. I won’t deny that his vocal was great, but for me, interpretation is just as important as the vocal.

Like Folkfan said, some people also had some of the same criticisms about DC’s performances of “Eleanor Rigby” and “Baba O’Riley.” While I didn’t particularly hate those performances, they also weren’t some of my favorites of DC’s either.

Interesting quote, trina. I could see DC not quite knowing what he was going to get out of being on Idol until Simon threw down that challenge. And I bet both Davids would say that having each other for serious competition pushed them to excel.

David A was on my radar because even though imho Shop Around was his worst vocal of the season, it was his most exuberant. That David was lost after that night until finale night. I loved Danny Noriega and the early ouster of him and Alexandrea Lushington was a bad thing for the show. I think that if they had made it further, the ratings would have reflected it. I still expect good things from both of them in the future. I wasn’t on the Syesha bandwagon all of the way, but one toe was in there and even though she may never be heard from again, she was the most consisitant and competitive female from this season. She EARNED her slot every single week.

I will always think that TCO was Carly and MJ. I think that was the plan all along, and that the back ups were the Davids. I am gnollish too and think that if there hadn’t been a hub bub about plants and ringers they would have been less defensive and especially for Carly would have just been herself and just get out there and sing instead of having to defend your past. That and Michael the song stealer killed it for them.

The back up plan was the David’s. Certainly by live show time they knew enough about both of them and had their little focus groups and knew exactly what they were about, and what they could do and like someone said the cream does rise to the top, and they were for sure the best of the bunch. I love Carly and vocally she may kick ass, but she just didn’t step up.

David Cook was the creative one, David Archuleta the one with the voice, and nothing short of genius by someone else was going to derail them. Looking back in the archives was lol, fun times. I think the lingering animosity I have for KLC is because she was chosen for the top 12 when there were many others far more deserving. For me she was that bad. Others have grown on my that I didn’t get, Jason especially, KLC just continues to diminish in my eyes. All in all, this was the best top 12, if you can overlook KLC that is.

Btw. I just can’t waste any more time revisiting this season. Is it next week yet?

Luckeee, that is exactly the reason I do vote. Yes, they manipulate. But, they still go with the votes. I believe I’m smart enough not to let their manipulations sway me. I believe (or at least hope) most of America is that smart. It’s obvious that they didn’t want Taylor Hicks and as obvious that they weren’t ready for Michael Johns to go.

Bandzilla drowned out everybody but Archie at least once this year IIRC…and rear shots can be very lovely…I remember on Idolator (I think it was) that David Cook would give up his song to anybody who wanted it and sing something else.

I guess what I’m saying is that if you have it, they can’t manipulate you away. I can’t believe people are stupid enough not to see through that. I won’t deny that what they do is horrible but I will deny that most people are stupid enough to buy into it.

I always thought that people give TPTB too much credit. They are not that smart. The can’t have “stealth candidates” and the like IMO, because they don’t operate with that level of subtlety. A team of behavioral scientists couldn’t pull something like that off, actually.

TPTB clearly have their favorites going in, and bastards that they are, they give those chosen few all kinds of special perks. But I truly believe once the contest starts, TCO status shifts with the viewer reaction. If the producer’s chosen ones score in the middle of the pack while someone previously ignored soars to the top, TPTB jump ship but quick. The only thing that might slow them down a bit is if they think the viewers choice is bad for the franchise. But even then they will jump on board if the audience won’t budge. Hence the oft forgotten late stage Season 5 pimping of Taylor Hicks, particularly after the exit of Chris Daughtry. They chase money over anything else. Huge votes = huge ratings draw = huge potential cash.

That’s how I see it anyway.

and rear shots can be very lovelyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦

Oh yes they can be.
That shot that moves around DC during “Dare You to Move” on Top 3 night is my favorite part of that performance from him.
Hmmm.

;D

Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s how I see it anyway.

I agree with your post completely, tinawina. I think people place way too much onto the producers/shenanigans/manipulations/conspiracies.
I think that when the producers favor someone, they do it very clearly and without any subtlety, hence all the “over the top” comments. I don’t think they know what “stealth” means, let alone how to pull it off convincingly.

I still stand that he missed the meaning of the song in his interpretation, and IMO, his comment in response to Simon on top 16 week proves that – when Simon said that it was getting a little à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“gloomyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  and criticized him for doing two sad songs in a row, his response was à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Imagine is a sad song?à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  To me, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Imagineà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  is not a hopeful song, and that interpretation of it is what I took away from his performance.

So because the song means something different to him it somehow means his interpretation of it can’t be great in its own right? I disagree with that. Many people reacted viscerally to that performance of Imagine by DAvid A. They were feeling “something.” Even though he was only 17, he had enough musicality and love for the song to put his own spin/stamp on it. Like someone else said, some people don’t like when that’s done to a song but it really isn’t different than Cook doing Billy Jean which was a cover of what Chris Cornell did to Michael Jackson’s song.

I’d just like to give David A credit for his creativity and musicality, even though the show did its best to stifle it later on.

David Archuleta the one with the voice

I think he has more to offer than just a voice because he can immerse himself in every aspect of music even if he has room to grow. I think AI put him in a box and any attempt he would have tried to make to move past it would have been blocked or ridiculed. I don’t think AI always allows for a legit representation of what a contestant can be in the real world which is why so many contestants surprise us after the season is over.

For comparison, David Cook also has a “voice” that people are compelled to listen to but his storyline throughout the season was to keep showing us that he had more to offer than that. He was given every opportunity to show us who he’d be as an artist and I believe it’s to his credit that the producers saw so much potential in him from very early on. They saw him as a sure thing (the next Daughtry) while they saw David A as more of a risk.

For me, I can’t immerse myself in anything David Archuleta does…just doesn’t work. I know many do, but I’d say it’s a personal thing. He may be able to immerse himself but for us to do it is a different story. I just don’t buy into the fact that TPTB had much if any say in how it all ended up. I, in fact, think that when Simon tried to throw Mr. Cook under the bus the last night, America spoke and loudly…that would be why we had a winner by 12 million votes in a contest that I think should have been a bit closer.

For me, I canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t immerse myself in anything David Archuleta doesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦just doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t work. I know many do, but Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d say ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a personal thing.

Yeah, I get that. I’m not a Cook fan but I give him props when they’re due or try to.

He may be able to immerse himself but for us to do it is a different story. I just donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t buy into the fact that TPTB had much if any say in how it all ended up.

I totally buy into it and if Cook was thrown under the bus on finale night (in a more obvious way designed to get his fanbase riled up) then David A was thrown under the bus in a more underhanded way as way to fuel the resentment they’d been directing his way all season. In case you didn’t know this, David A only sung Imagine again on finale night because AI refused to clear upto six songs for him for his final choice. In addition, the producers picked DLTSGDOM for him knowing it was a song they’d given to at least three runner ups in the past. That’s only finale night shenanigans. I have no desire to really get into stuff that happened all through the rest of the season.

that and all the kiddies went to bed… lol but thats besides the point…

either way they both deserved to win.

Archie has a beautiful voice but the jury has been out for me on whether or not he connects. I think I see him getting into the songs more with his own stuff now than when he was on the show. On AI it seemed he had one mode, and that was earnest. Nothing wrong with earnest, but it would have been helpful to see more than that other than on “Shop Around”. I still remember being shocked at the confidence and strut he had walking out to duet with DC on finale night. In fact, on the final 2 performance night I saw more emotion and grit from him than I had seem in the whole contest. I think if he had been that way all the way through, he might have won.

I, in fact, think that when Simon tried to throw Mr. Cook under the bus the last night, America spoke and loudlyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦that would be why we had a winner by 12 million votes in a contest that I think should have been a bit closer.

You do realize that quite a few of Archie’s fans see that as the ultimate manipulation by the show, intended to assure Cook’s win, don’t you?
I remember on finale night, some of the comments were “well now if he wins, at least no one could say it was due to the producers manipulating results. This is America going against what Idol told it to do, this is us voting for someone who’s been thrown under the bus by the show.”
But of course, revisionism and hindsight make sure that no matter what, in the end some people will see the result as pure manipulation and claim that was exactly what Simon wanted to achieve. I don’t buy that anymore than I do the idea of “stealth TCO”, but mileage varies greatly on that.

I think AI put him in a box and any attempt he would have tried to make to move past it would have been blocked or ridiculed.

I’m just asking because I really don’t know. Why do you think that AI put him in a box? Maybe he and his Dad felt comfortable with him doing ballad type songs week after week. Maybe it was their decision and not AI’s?

I think *The Voice* is subjectable. Personally for me DA is not the one with the voice, but Cook is. Better range, just all around better singer. Again this is my taste and MMDV.

I, in fact, think that when Simon tried to throw Mr. Cook under the bus the last night, America spoke and loudlyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦that would be why we had a winner by 12 million votes in a contest that I think should have been a bit closer.

I do not for a minute think that Simon was throwing David Cook under the bus. Given his behavior out and about on talk shows that week, he stated outright that he wanted Cook to win. I don’t know (nor I do care much at this point) whether Simon was trying to manipulate people to get out in droves and vote for Cook, or if he just thought Archie was better that night, but I feel pretty certain that Simon wasn’t trying to sabotage Cook.

Honestly for me, it’s all water under the bridge and I’m proud of them both.

I’m unsure how you can be thrown under the bus in an underhanded way. Wouldn’t that hold true for anybody who was praised? So let’s just suffice to say that everybody is thrown under the bus. Does that work for you? Some will live through it and some not so much. Does that work for you? Ultimately we know who our winner was…

I still remember being shocked at the confidence and strut he had walking out to duet with DC on finale night. In fact, on the final 2 performance night I saw more emotion and grit from him than I had seem in the whole contest. I think if he had been that way all the way through, he might have won.

I totally agree with this. I noticed it most after he finished singing “Apologize” and walked over to talk with Ryan. His posture, his gait, it was all different.

In fact, on the final 2 performance night I saw more emotion and grit from him than I had seem in the whole contest. I think if he had been that way all the way through, he might have won.

See I think after simon slapped the front runner status on him, it put alot of pressure on him, and it was a bit hard just to be his self. He said as much in his EW interview.. he was like after simon said that, he was like “this cant be good” since he wasnt even trying to do anything with imagine, and that he kinda have to live up to what ever it was. lol

by the finale time the pressure was off and i think at that point it didnt really matter what happened, and that he just wanted to give it his best the one last time. Results night again no pressure on him to do well.

I think *The Voice* is subjectable. Personally for me DA is not the one with the voice, but Cook is. Better range, just all around better singer. Again this is my taste and MMDV.

That’s why we’re all here. Life (and MJ’s) would be so boring if we all agreed with one another. :wink_ee:

I have to say (coming from a diehard cook fan) that archie has really made me change my mind about him. He was my favorite at the start, but Cook won my heart. I thought archie was amazing on the final 2 nite. To be honest with you though, I said I didnt think I would buy his cd, because I really thought it wouldnt be to my liking at all. I have been pleasantly surprised with archie though. I liked Crush, and I thought it was the perfect first song for him. It proved he can sing pop and be pretty dang successful at it. He also proved he can put out a dang good cd with alot of good songs. Cook is still my favorite (I absolutely love his cd) but come on, you gotta give credit where credit is due. Archie came out of AI a winner.

I have to say also that I think Imagine was one of the best in AI history, along with billie jean.

All I can say about S7 is that the right two people ended up in the finale. And even though it “was the most talented top 12 evah” I think they will be the only ones who will flourish. I’m not wishing ill on anyone but I didn’t see that extra something in any but the two Davids. And any finale without either of them would have been a joke.

Since S5 winning Idol has not been the be all, end all. If someone has the stuff they’ll make it even if they don’t come in first or second. I just didn’t see the star quality in anyone else that season. But I’ll be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.

I’ll just add that I was an Archie fan during the season. I’m less involved now because I like but don’t love his brand of pop. However, I always knew that he would have no problem breaking into the pop scene. No worries about that kid at all.

This has turned into primarily a DC vs DA discussion, but it includes the other finalists. Manipulations abound in the handling of Jason and Syesha particularly.

America is not stupid but most viewers are not that invested and were swayed by manipulations without realizing it. That is why tptb do these things. They would not bother if they thought the vast viewing audience realized what was happening. There would be no need or purpose.

See I think after simon slapped the front runner status on him, it put alot of pressure on him, and it was a bit hard just to be his self. He said as much in his EW interview.. he was like after simon said that, he was like à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“this cant be goodà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  since he wasnt even trying to do anything with imagine, and that he kinda have to live up to what ever it was. lol

by the finale time the pressure was off and i think at that point it didnt really matter what happened, and that he just wanted to give it his best the one last time. Results night again no pressure on him to do well.

Yeah, I agree. He clearly got in his own head, a la Carly. But less severe. But I think stuff turned out just fine for him anyway.

All I can say about S7 is that the right two people ended up in the finale. And even though it à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“was the most talented top 12 evahà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  they seem to be the only two who are flourishing. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not wishing ill on anyone but I didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t see that extra something in any but the two Davids. And any finale without either of them would have been a joke.

I agree, expect for I do think Jason and Brooke both had a spark, But someone on here posted elsewhere that their future is highly dependent on their singer-songwriter skills, and ITA with that assessment. Both need great songs that totally fit their voices. But yes, the right two ended up in the finale.

I believe America got the Top 2 right. We may disagree on who should be #1 and #2, but I don’t think it really matters at this point. I think both Davids are at peace with where they landed and both are doing extremely well.

I felt DA won the night with his performances on the final night, and I totally agreed with Simon. I feel DC won because he had been gathering momentum for some time by that point, it was the snowball effect and could not be stopped.

Imagine is not a sad song to me. My impression is that it is asking us to imagine a more perfect/peaceful world without social, religious, and politcal strife. I think Lennon’s idea was to imagine what it would be like to be unburdened by these things. I feel his idea of the world being as one is meant to be a hopeful message. I do take objection to not being able to imagine a heaven though, doesn’t fit my theology.

I’m really glad that they decided to review the season on tv and let us re-watch because it’s no more a competition. We can sit and relax and watch and enjoy our favorites without having to worry will they be safe or whether or not the judges will like it. But I must say it’s quite funny looking at everyone’s differing opinions saying things like this person should have made it over this person, etc. etc. But it’s funny because it’s easier to judge their performances now since we’re not really being biased and our opinions change because sometimes performances are better than we initially thought and some are worse. For example, we could have been blown away by someone when we first saw their performance, but then realize watching it back that it wasn’t as good as we thought.

I only caught the last 5 performances from the girls last night so I’ll give my opinion on them. By the way, it is so nice watching it on tv rather than youtube!

:: Kady Malloy- She was my favorite from the start, or at least one of my favorites because I loved her voice. And when I saw this performance almost 11 months ago now (wow), I loved it. Tonight, while it was still good, I realize where Simon was coming from and Randy saying she should have done more with it. What a song- she could have done so much with the song and performed it more, really belting it out. Oh well it was still nice.

:: Asia’h Epperson- I enjoyed her performance a lot more and while I still liked it a lot back then, I think it was better than I first thought.

:: Ramiele Malubay- She was as good in this performance than she was months ago….. wasn’t incredible, but I wish she stayed more like this because after this she just faltered.

:: Syesha Mercado- This was my favorite performance of the night back then, still was on youtube watching it back, and last night was still as good.

:: Carly Smithson- Weird song. The belting started off immediately. So, it was good, but I see what they were saying with her capabilities she could nail that but she still had her good moments, particularly the last 30 seconds or so.

But yeah, it’s so much easier to judge now enjoying it and not having to worry about them oh are they going to do good, bad, and what not.

I always thought Simon’s attitude that final night was his way of unleashing his anger because DC didn’t play the game his way in the end when it mattered. He made it more than clear all over the media who he wanted to win, just the day before on Ellen he was predicting DC would win because he makes the smartest song choices..so when he didn’t pull out one of his showstoppers (e.g. BJ, Hello) and picked Dream Big which Simon also said was a bad choice, he was pissed. To be honest when I learned he chose that Collective Soul song I was pretty irked myself and didn’t think he stood a chance in hell of winning. IMO if Simon was trying to throw him under the bus for whatever reason he wouldn’t have looked the way he did after the winner was announced.

In addition, the producers picked DLTSGDOM for him knowing it was a song theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d given to at least three runner ups in the past.

To be fair Clive Davis picked DLTSGDOM and he’s known for being pretty repetitive and uncreative lol.

DA sang the heck outta DLTSGDOM imo. Elton would have been proud, lol

he was pissed

He really was, wasn’t he? At one point, after he’d complimented DA, the camera panned back by him and he looked like he was about to punch someone. That entire night he looked like he’d just sucked on a lemon.

Yeah Simon on finale night looked steamed…. thats soemthing I noticed…

I know this is heresy but maybe the judges aren’t manipulating the show as much as giving their honest opinions. I don’t think Jason or Syesha were screwed in any major way. They got plenty of exposure on the show and are free to dazzle the world with their talent. And if plenty of lower placed finishers could make careers for themselves Season 5 so can these folks.

In terms of winning, I’ll go with the Yahoo chart guy and say both Davids are winners.

Maybe he looked like he was about to punch someone to keep with the theme of the night…….boxing, lol

To be fair Clive Davis picked DLTSGDOM and heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s known for being pretty repetitive and uncreative lol.

Oh, so true. :laugh_tb:

IMO if Simon was trying to throw him under the bus for whatever reason he wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have looked the way he did after the winner was announced.

Yeah, he totally thought DC had screwed up. Hence, his ecstatic response when David won. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen Simon that happy when a winner was announced.

hahaha judy

Maybe he looked like he was about to punch someone to keep with the theme of the nightà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.boxing, lol

:laugh_tb:

Ryan was lucky not to have gotten too close, methinks.

I don’t think Simon really cared that much which David won although I’m sure he’s happy with Cook. The producers have wanted a rocker to win this since Daughtry. Even if Archie won, Cook would have done just fine (see Daughtry, Chris). Neither David is the kind of singer that Simon really loves (see divas- Leona Lewis et al here).

pfttt David could totally go all diva on us… LOL

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think Simon really cared that much which David won although Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sure heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s happy with Cook.

I think he did care leading up to the finale, or he wouldn’t have been so publicly vocal about his choice. However, I think DA’s performances on finale night probably earned him a little of the respect he’d lost with Simon. I think Simon would have been satisfied if DA had won; however, I can’t imagine him openly rejoicing as he did when Cook was announced as the winner.

eta: Just for the record, I am a huge DA fan who thought Cook would -and should have – won. He was more consistent, and just more ready for it all. In my mind 2nd place was a better fit for DA – less pressure and all that. I just want to say this because I do not question DC’s win or begrudge him the honor, and I’m not implying any conspiracies here. I’m just having fun dissecting the whole thing again (I only lurked during the season).

Simon was probably pissed because his flight to London was going to be delayed or his million dollar car needed some new tires. I don’t think he’s emotionally invested in Idol much anymore (if he ever was.) Although I could see him getting pissed if someone won who he knew had no commercial appeal. Might cut into his $1 million a day income or something.

He was probably happy that Cook won because Cook’s iTunes sales were so strong. I could see that putting a glint in his eye. However since both David’s are 19R property. he knew he’d make $ either way. Let’s see if he remembers either Davids’ name S8. Or if it’s that kid from last season and last year’s winner “what’s his name.” Maybe he does that stuff to get the fans crazy, though.

Kady Malloy was my favorite from the auditions but she sure tanked on this show.
As uninspiring as it was ‘Groovy Kind of Love’ was her best performance.
At 18 years of age, and fresh out of high school, Kady was too young and lacked the experience for this stage.
And she was done in by Simon’s ‘Night of the Living Dead’ comment which she said in a later interview, was more of an insult than a criticism.
She never recovered. Which is too bad because she can sing. She can even sing opera.
Kady would have been a great addition to top 10 if TPTB had been more interested in cultivating young talent as opposed to embarassing inexperienced performers for the sake of ratings.

I have to disagree about Simon & David Cook. Somewhere (I am trying to find it, it was so long ago now) is a quote by Cowell something to the effect of *Cook’s music is the type he would buy/listen to*. Simon was very much for Cook after Rigby. I’m not saying he did not like DA. So while Simon might produce the likes of Il Divo, he personally likes to listen to Cook’s type of music.

Also on the finale. Simon winked at Cook after giving his critique of “The World I know”. I have always wondered about that wink.

I agree with other’s about Simon happy Cook won. After watching 7 seasons, I have never seen Simon & Paula so happy after the announcement. Simon & Paula made no bones about who they wanted or thought would win and it was Cook in all the interviews.

I agree it had to be the Davids at the end. They were like Superman and Lex Luthor. Superman was too powerful to make a fight with anyone else even worth making a comic book about, and Lex Luthor was too smart to lose to anyone other than Supes.

Ok, yeah, nerdy example, but it had to be between them. I think anyone else would have been slaughtered by the David fanbase.

It may just be me (new to the whole Idol machine this year) But I think the idea of Cook being a mole or a “stealth TCO” or whatever sounds a bit outlandish. The best explanation I’ve heard for Cook was the producers or whatever took one look at him and decided he would be perfect for the “goofy rockers brought on by Daughtry” montage.

But y’all’s guess as good as mine.

Simon was probably pissed because his flight to London was going to be delayed or his million dollar car needed some new tires

:laugh_tb: Maybe so. I think you are right that he probably doesn’t care so much in the long run. But he might have been miffed at the prospect of being proven wrong after going public with his choice.

(Although, with this being my first “serious” season, I have no idea whether he does that every year. Does he usually make a public prediction like that?)

I also wanted to say if anyone had a disservice done to them during AI it was Jason Castro & his second performance Pauler imagined up.

Also on the finale. Simon winked at Cook after giving his critique of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The World I knowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have always wondered about that wink.

ME TOO! Hmmm…

Letà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s see if he remembers either Davidsà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ name S8. Or if ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s that kid from last season and last yearà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s winner à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“whatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s his name.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  Maybe he does that stuff to get the fans crazy, though.

Than Carly’s fans should probably all check into some nice facility by now… I think he’s probably called her “the Irish girl” about 20 times. He CANNOT seem to commit her name to memory.

Also on the finale. Simon winked at Cook after giving his critique of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The World I knowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have always wondered about that wink.

OMG, the importance some people attribute to that wink is one of the funniest things about the whole finale aftermath to me. Some people see it as the ultimate proof of shenanigans. Yup. That.
My interpretation has and always will be that Simon was reassuring David he was not angry at the talking back after TWIK. They both had a very public rift the last time DC talked back (on TONIGHT’s rewind ep!) so I saw it as nothing more and nothing less than Simon signing “it’s OK, you’re not out of line answering me right now, we’re cool”.

I have to disagree about Simon & David Cook. Somewhere (I am trying to find it, it was so long ago now) is a quote by Cowell something to the effect of *Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s music is the type he would buy/listen to*.

I’m not 100% sure but I think he may have said this on Larry King early in the season.

Hence, his ecstatic response when David won. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve ever seen Simon that happy when a winner was announced.

The day after the finale Simon was on Ryan’s show that morning and Ryan was teasing him about how excited he looked. :laugh_tb: The interview is actually pretty interesting overall and he goes into some detail as to why he wanted DC to win.

Also on the finale. Simon winked at Cook after giving his critique of à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“The World I knowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ . I have always wondered about that wink.

I was always a curious about that. Then there was a recap from someone who was at the finale that said after DC won when he was still on the stage he yelled out to Simon and thanked him. I think the person even said Simon bowed or something I always wondered about that .

Archie was always on my radar, right from his very first appearance during the audition phase. I honestly thought his biggest competition was Michael Johns. Cook didn’t even register with me as a serious contender until around Always Be My Baby and even then, I still thought Archie would ultimately win, MJ would be runner up and maybe Cook 3rd.

To me, Archie stood for so much more than just a remarkable talent. From the beginning, I was drawn to his ‘aw shucks’ way about him that I now realize turned a lot of people off. I felt bad for him that he was paying the price for being pimped and anointed TCO, but I also wanted to believe that if AI was seriously looking for someone who had remarkable talent, a genuine passion for music, good looks and a pleasant manner that appealed to young and old and someone who encompassed what an Idol should be in every sense, he couldn’t possibly lose. I go back and forth as to whether or not he was overwhelmed during the show. At the time I might have thought he was, but immediately after the show and during subsequent interviews, he reverted back to that kid full of wonder and enthusiasm that we saw in the early parts of the show. I say à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹revertà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ though I’m convinced he was like that all along, but stifled by TPTB. All this said, I think things worked out as they should have and as people have come to à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã‹knowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ him, theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve come to love him.

It’s fun watching the season again and I love knowing DC will be on my tv every night for the next 10 days or so. lol

He looked kind of funny in his audition, I didn’t like the orange hair AT ALL, and he was chubby, but he looked better in Hollywood. I’m so sad they didn’t show us the Ed McCain song, except a brief glimpse. He looked great in that white shirt and jeans. How funny that Simon said “no” to Hollywood, he is so often wrong about the people who end up winning or doing well.

Top 12 guys, DC had a big smile that was almost a bit smug or over-confident, but belied by the look of relief when it was over. He obviously was at home on a stage and knew how to croon into the mike for the ladies. I loved watching him in the stands during the top 12 women and again during the results show. To me, his intelligence and focus are obvious across a room, lol.

I forgot how amazing DA’s Shop Around was, he seemed like an old man in a young boy’s body. He stood out from the very first.

MJ’s Light My Fire was a bit disappointing, after Hollywood I expected more of him, his voice just didn’t quite do that song justice.

I really liked Jason right from the start too. Loved Daydream.

Can’t wait to watch top 10 guys tonight.

I have one question, which maybe could someone answer, who know more about previous seasons.

Has it been one of the reasons Michael, Carly and Ramielle has been part of the Top24 to make the season more interesting for the international Fox channels that show American Idol?

The funniest thing about watching these reruns is that I still get nervous, even though I know what happens! I can’t believe just how invested I got in these people.

I don’t think my heart – or my family – will be able to handle another season.

JudyOhio, that rocked. Haha (tm DA)

And, Lisa, I agree. Poor Jason had to do that performance immediately after being told by Paula that it would suck.

Re; Simon on Top 2 night: I think that he wanted DC to play the game according to the rules that Simon thought was necessary for victory, by picking a glory note power ballad of a coronation single and reprising Billie Jean, or Hello, or ABMB. And was pissed that DC did not. That’s where I think that a lot of Simon’s statements came from. He had gone around saying that DC should win, he expected DC to take certain steps to try to win, and dammit, DC didn’t do that.

My interpretation of the wink was Simon saying that he was not going to try to gut DC for openly disagreeing with him about the song choice.

Top 2: I had it pretty close to a tie. I thought that the Davids’ performances of their “Clive choice” songs were about equal, although DC’s song had a higher degree of difficulty because I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For is an iconic, “thou shalt not touch” U2 song. That said, DA’s performance of Don’t Let… was my favorite performance of his since the semis. I put DC comfortably ahead of DA on the second round in part because I hated, hated, hated that coronation song that DA chose, but rather liked the one that DC chose, as he had rearranged it. I thought that The World I Know was just ridiculously gorgeous and touching, while DA did a good job on Imagine (although it had lost its sense of surprise and was similar, to me, to so many of his other performances ). So, I’d have put DC on top in each round, but had it pretty close (except for round 2, which was song choice for me). While I could see someone flipping those, I never got the concept that it was a “knock out.”

“So while Simon might produce the likes of Il Divo, he personally likes to listen to Cookà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s type of music.”

I know Simon said this but judging by the songs he picks as his favorites, I don’t believe it. His taste runs to Over the Rainbow and Mack the Knife. I just don’t think he’s a big rock fan at all. Ages ago he picked his favorite song and it def wasn’t one to rock out to. I’m sure he listens to all kinds of music though. But I think Il Divo fits perfectly in with his personal taste.

ME TOO! Hmmmà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦

Well, he made Cook explain why he chose to sing a new song and made David A look like an uncreative, no risk taking chump in the process even though the show refused to let him pick a new song in the first place and gained Cook even more sympathy. Mission accomplished. I would have winked too if I was Simon.

It’s funny that Clive is so uncreative that he picked a song for DA sung no less than four or five times on the show but suddenly got creative when picking a U2 song for Cook which had never before been sung on the show.

I’m just reminded how much of a farce that night was despite two contestants both willing to step it up and play fair. It is water under the bridge but darn it just brings it all back.

I really admire DA for giving his all despite the deck being stacked against him.

I really admire DA for giving his all despite the deck being stacked against him.

Oh yeah, getting Simon to declare the night a “knock out” in your favor, having Randy declare “You American Idol is RIGHT THERE!” at the top of his lungs pointing at you, and overall coming out of the night with every newspaper stating it was all but a foregone conclusion you won… Of course it was all stacked against DA.
Dammit, he never stood a chance.

Seriously? Even if DLTSGDOM was used before for other contestants and SHFWILF wasn’t, what impact does that have on the results? DA still got the bigger praise for his song out of the two, and that round, courtesy of Simon, went to him. I don’t think the casual Idol viewer sat around saying “Yeah, he sang it brilliantly, but hey, didn’t Clay already did this?! I won’t vote for a song Clay already did!”. Seriously.

About the wink – let’s say for a second that’s why Simon winked. A few minutes later he called that “uncreactive, no risk taking” cover all sorts of grand superlatives and declared it won DA the night. I’m sure the wink was more meaningful, though.

I know, I know, mileage, but it always amazes me how reality gets slanted by bias. DC won because of everything that led up to the finale and because he was consistently good all through the season, not because he got a U2 song or because Simon winked at him. Sheesh.

two contestants both willing to step it up and play fair.

This is what I choose to focus on. It keeps me happy. The contestants make the show, and the two Davids, with their talent and solid character, really made the finale something great. Despite whatever shenanigans were or were not taking place behind the scenes, those two guys stayed out of it and just did their thing. :clap_tb:

Oh yeah, getting Simon to declare the night a à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“knock outà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  in your favor, having Randy declare à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“You American Idol is RIGHT THERE!à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  at the top of his lungs pointing at you, and overall coming out of the night with every newspaper stating it was all but a foregone conclusion you wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ Of course it was all stacked against him.
Dammit, he never stood a chance.

LMAO. He never really stood a chance and I knew that before the finale even aired. Some of the media were like puppets playing up the hype that David’s stellar performances and Simon’s OTT declarations but it was a joke.

Besides everyone know that Simon playing it up like he’s entirely on your side is the kiss of death. Just ask Carly or Melinda.

Catching up, but thanks for whoever explained what stealth-TCO means. Interesting idea, but I personally don’t buy it. It’s simply too risky to have your TCO bubble under the radar early on when everyone is busy building a fanbase. DialIdol shows that DC was at major risk of leaving the first couple weeks. Like someone says, outlandish.

I know this is heresy but maybe the judges arenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t manipulating the show as much as giving their honest opinions.

I *totally* agree with you, jpfan. I think I’m in the minority, though =P. That said, this knollish stuff is fascinating. I’m still undecided as to how much I want to get into this season, but regardless, I’ll be checking in here a bit to read you guys’ great thoughts .

didn’t watch, but a shout-out for “Happy Together”! He’ll probably never sing it again, but it’s one of my fave Dave’s.

Im happy with the top 2 lol And who ever said it… I think Sam, I dont think it could of been any other way… would of been a slaughter if anyone other than the 2 davids were in the top 2. lol In the end I think whatever happened, happened. lol Either one deserved to win and im happy with the results

That being said, lol I knew at least by top 3 it was over for DA. lol Im not going to get into top 3. Not touching that with a ten foot poll.

Besides everyone know that Simon playing it up like heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s entirely on your side is the kiss of death. Just ask Carly or Melinda.

It was totally clear to me by the middle of their respective seasons that neither of these would win.

DC won because of everything that led up to the finale and because he was consistently good all through the season, not because he got a U2 song or because Simon winked at him. Sheesh.

Oh, I’m totally in agreement with you here. The wink was the wink. Fans read it like they wanted. However, with or without the wink, Simon’s response that night sent DC’s fans into frantic mode. Why? He’s notorious for calling the winner on finale night. Hence, DC wins by 12 million votes. Unbelievable….

Simon pimping Carly was not her kiss of death, Carly not connecting with the audience/home viewer’s was Carly’s kiss of death.

I loved Melinda on S6, really loved Melinda she was my pick. I knew she would not beat out Blake or Jordin. Melinda had multiple problems. She did not really do current songs, people could not get over her *no neck* (I personally think she is lovely).

I agree DC’s body of work is what won him the title. He did deserve it IMHO. I did not see what the judges saw on Finale, I think I was watching a different show because what I saw was DC laying his soul on the line. It was beautifully touching.

DA did great on the finale too. I still say both of them will have wonderful careers and there could not have been a better top 2. In the end, everyone got what they wanted. Both got contracts, both fanbases get to see alot of their own “David”, lot’s of music & vids. The public & music industry love them. Win/Win.

yeah lisa win/win

Simonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s response that night sent DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fans into frantic mode.

Lord have mercy I remember all the boards! I think I was in shock at first, then I was angry. I don’t know that I got in more votes for Cook because of it, frankly I would have gotten in the same amount.

So because the song means something different to him it somehow means his interpretation of it canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t be great in its own right? I disagree with that.

That is not exactly what I said. You convienently left out this part of what I said in your quote and your response to my post:

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m just saying that I didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t connect with his interpretation, because thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not how I personally interpret the song. I wonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t deny that his vocal was great, but for me, interpretation is just as important as the vocal.

I’ll add to that that I don’t think people who had whatever visceral reaction to that song are wrong, and no, I don’t think that just because the song means something different to David that it makes his interpretation is invalid or whatever. However, that other people appreciated the interpretation of the song also does not invalidate my view that I did not like it.

Like someone else said, some people donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t like when thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s done to a song but it really isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t different than Cook doing Billy Jean which was a cover of what Chris Cornell did to Michael Jacksonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song.

David Cook did a version of the song that has a different MUSICAL arrangement, not a different lyrical interpretation. Big difference, imo.

yeah lisa win/win

Yep! I can’t think of two nicer guys this success could happen to. They both deserve it. I also will be quite sad watching this season for the same reason. Where can two nicer ones be found? I will miss all of the contestants from S7. I really enjoyed them all. Well maybe not boy from the corn, lol.

Both David’s wish nothing but the best for each other, they really do support one another.

I definitely did not mean to imply that I thought there was anything *important* going on with the wink, because I don’t think it meant too much. I just have a habit of latching onto little details. I think I’ve watched a little too much Alias over the years – lol – but I tend to obsess about these things and try to figure them out.

But no, I did not think the wink meant anything to anyone other than Simon and DC.

That being said, lol I knew at least by top 3 it was over for DA. lol Im not going to get into top 3. Not touching that with a ten foot poll.

Top three was another producer manipulated joke. lol

I can’t buy that everything was manipulated unless the contestants allowed it to be so. They always had a bit of free will in the competition. If you want to believe that every last thing was stacked against one and for the other, well I can’t stop your thinking that, but I just think that how they sang a certain song had much to do with the results.

I remember so many people angsting over DC singing the face song. I also remember thinking he’d find a way to do it awesomely. He did and it was beautiful. If your favorite sings a song chosen for him/her badly well I think it’s easy to to call manipulation. I just happen to think that the entire show is manipulated and it’s how you deal with that is the important thing….sometimes it’s manipulated in your favor and sometimes not…deal with it and go on from there.

but I just think that how they sang a certain song had much to do with the results.

only if they were allowed to sing a song a certain way… David himself said he wanted to do Longer in a different arrangement on the piano, but the producers said they wanted him to sing it straight. That was straight from his own mouth.

Also David mentioned in an article he had 6 song choices before Imagine for finale night… all not cleared or rejected for whatever reason, so he decide to do imagine again because he was running out of time.

and just for the record this is directed toward Idol, lol Just kinda disgusted with them. Not anyone specific here.

but its all good in the end.

Besides everyone know that Simon playing it up like heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s entirely on your side is the kiss of death. Just ask Carly or Melinda.

As far as finales, if I remember correctly, for Season 5, Simon declared Taylor “just won American Idol” and he won. And if I remember correctly for Season 6, Simon declared Jordin the winner and she won. And if I remember correctly for Season 3, Simon declared Fantasia the winner, and she won. ( I also think he declared Kelly Clarkson the winner and I can’t remember about Carrie). Kiss of Death? Uh no.

I’m watching 70′s night for the guys right now. I just saw something totally endearing: when the guys first make it up to the balcony, DC and DA are last, and the girls are still screaming for DA. DC turns to him and plays up the applause in a very affectionate way. Sweet.

And now Michael Johns is underwhelming me with “Go Your Own Way.” But I like the orange tee.

Carly not connecting with the audience/home viewerà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s was Carlyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s kiss of death.

Absolutely. Carly trying to connect with Simon was her downfall….

awwww lefty

I always thought Simonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s attitude that final night was his way of unleashing his anger because DC didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t play the game his way in the end when it mattered. He made it more than clear all over the media who he wanted to win, just the day before on Ellen he was predicting DC would win because he makes the smartest song choices..so when he didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t pull out one of his showstoppers (e.g. BJ, Hello) and picked Dream Big which Simon also said was a bad choice, he was pissed. To be honest when I learned he chose that Collective Soul song I was pretty irked myself and didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think he stood a chance in hell of winning. IMO if Simon was trying to throw him under the bus for whatever reason he wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t have looked the way he did after the winner was announced.

This. Yes. I completely agree.

Also, I had the exact same reaction that you did to TWIK at first too. Once I read the spoiler and also immediately after his performance of TWIK. I said out loud, “well, I sure hope you weren’t wanting to win because that wasn’t going to win it for you” because even I had bought into the big-glory-note-showstopper winning song thing that they’ve shoved at us every year. And my brother and SIL looked at me like I was crazy after I said that because they thought it was his best performance of the night. After I watched it again, with less anxiety, I saw exactly what he was trying to convey and that performance has since become one of my favorite of the series because I see DC the musician in it.

Top three was another producer manipulated joke. lol

I never really got why everyone says that. Sure, Syesha was saddled with a Happy Feet song, but I remember thinking it sounded like a Rihanna song, and Rihanna’s the hottest thing right now, so the producers must be trying to test her non-Broadway marketability and commercial relevance in the current market– except that they were too cheap to get an actual Rihanna song. Maybe they used their allowance for the week to get DC the Aerosmith song LOL. But even so, if that’s the extent of the manipulation, it’s just further proof to me that the AI producers suck at the whole manip game. It was a lame attempt, made people mad (Slezak wouldn’t shut up about it for a while), and worst of all, was totally unnecessary. Props to Syesha for her resilience in the competition, but c’mon, the Davids deserved Top 2 on their own merits and it was stupid to waste energy and America’s goodwill trying to manipulate this inevitable outcome. JMO.

David himself said he wanted to do Longer in a different arrangement on the piano, but the producers said they wanted him to sing it straight. That was straight from his own mouth.

I don’t doubt that, but the contestants have some free will as gingerly posted. I believe in season 6, Blake was told by the producers to not sing Time of the Season, and Blake told them he was going to sing it anyways. It turned out it was one of his best songs.

I found what I said about David Cook on another board after the Top 24 men’s performances:

Aw, I absolutely loved his performance. It was totally THE standout for me, with the second one way far behind. I just thought he was awesome. I love that song, and he made it seem fresh and new and funky.

I went to youtube and watched the Turtles about three times, just to keep the “Happy Together” going. Although I did think David needed to enunciate a little better. It kept sounding like, “I CAN see you loving blahbody else” and “Ahhh-ee together.”

That was in response to a lot of ICK and EEEUW kinds of comments. DC was totally not on my radar up to that point because I don’t like Bon Jovi and hated his hair in Hollywood (when it looked like he had a roller on top of his head).

I am somewhat into the Grassy Knoll stuff, and especially placement. I absolutely don’t think TPTB had any idea that Cook was going to be around for very long. They put him third in a group of twelve, for goodness sake. That’s a killer position. Nigel is notorious for putting his favorites at the ends of each hour in a two-hour show, which would be Archie and MJ, and then Brooke and Carly the second night. After that, he puts people he likes first, to open the show on a high note, and that would be David Hernandez and KLC.

But third in the hour, out of six performers each hour? The other people who went third were Colton (totally cannon fodder), Alaina and Asia’h. I don’t think any of them were expected to be around very long. I would say 3 and 4 in the group (dead center in each group) are the absolute worst places to be. The 4th performers were Jason Y (totally cannon fodder), Garrett (the most cannon foddery of all) and Ramiele. Not sure about her, because she seemed to be fairly well liked, but even so, I think those slots are really tough.

This means that I don’t think Cook was TCO ever. I think the producers may’ve jumped on board that bandwagon when they saw the number of votes he was getting and the calls and questions he got for IGB. Somebody noticed that something was stirring out there, and they decided they probably shouldn’t waste it.

Oh well. I only started this note so I could be on record as loving Cook from “Happy Together” on.

Among the girls, I liked Brooke and Kady that first night. If Simon being mean to someone is supposed to get them a whole bunch of votes, well, Kady woulda won the whole thing.

lest not forget the sbm backlash… lol yeah going against the producers… not a good idea…

If Simon being mean to someone is supposed to get them a whole bunch of votes, well, Kady woulda won the whole thing.

:lol_tb: Um….hello. Yeah!

Re: top three night, I actually think the producers just have terrible taste, because all three producers’ choice songs that night were pretty icky (sorry but I think that Aerosmith song is mighty cheesy). I do think they might have been trying to pick according to their own narrow ideas of what each contestant represented to them. You know in their minds, Syesha = modern R&B, DA = balladeer, Cook = rocker; and those were songs they liked within those categories. And they have really cheesy taste. As to why they wouldn’t let DA sink or swim with his own interpretation of “Longer”? I won’t go there.

But the judges did a better job of choosing, even though both Davids’ choices seemed a bit random. I thought they all did a good job with those songs. Simon just bragged a bit louder than the other two. lol

Now back to my TV:

Jason just sang that Andy Gibb song, and I loved it. But I loved me some Andy Gibb back in the day.

About

having Randy declare à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“You American Idol is RIGHT THERE!à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  at the top of his lungs pointing at you

yeah, I didn’t think Randys praise helped him a lot. In fact, most of the time when Randy opened his mouth to say something about David A it left me a little bit disgusted and creeped out.

Dang it I feel robbed.

David Archuleta singing Longer in a different arrangement on the piano would have been this fans dream come true.

Well the good thing is Simon didnt critisize DA about the song choice for longer. I kinda felt bad for him cause he apologized before simon even said anything.

Dang it. Getting kicked off the computer. Well, this has been fun… :bye_tb:

As far as finales, if I remember correctly, for Season 5, Simon declared Taylor à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“just won American Idolà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  and he won. And if I remember correctly for Season 6, Simon declared Jordin the winner and she won. And if I remember correctly for Season 3, Simon declared Fantasia the winner, and she won. ( I also think he declared Kelly Clarkson the winner and I canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t remember about Carrie). Kiss of Death? Uh no.

I remember that he said something to Carrie to the effect of “I think you’ve done enough to win the competition” after her final performance of the night. Simon always gives his stamp of approval on finale night if he can. So yeah, I also do not agree that calling the night a “knockout” in favor of DA was the kiss of death. He’s done that every year at least since season 3. I don’t know about the 2 prior as I didn’t watch those two.

Also, random but wasn’t there an article somewhere after the finale where one of the producers (Simon Fuller?) basically said in so many words that DC had led the voting since Mariah Carey week? I can’t find it right now, but I swear I read that somewhere way back then.

The only part of this show that was not manipulated was Jason getting into the top 4. He would have been gone top 5 except for Paula’s blunder about the unheard second song.

We have fact to base manipulation on. Words from Syesha and David A in particular. Neither of them have complained and in fact I have only read and heard from DA that he has the utmost respect and gratitude for AI, but that doesn’t change the facts. Things were denied to Sy and DA that were granted to others and there was simply no arguing with the producers this year. One of the striking statements made was that the band would play the arrangement they wanted no matter what arrangement was submitted by some of the singers. The contestants had no choice but to go along.

They put him third in a group of twelve, for goodness sake. Thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s a killer position. Nigel is notorious for putting his favorites at the ends of each hour in a two-hour show, which would be Archie and MJ,

Ah . . . er . . . I believe David A sang sixth, which does put him at the end of the first hour of a two-hour show, but how would that position be more advantageous than, say, eleventh? I just don’t think that being in the 6th position versus the 3rd position, out of a total of 12, really makes that significant a difference for the voters.

Trying to catch up on my dvr on AI7. I still wish that Amanda Overmyer, and Asiah Epperson would have made it to the Top 10. Syesha to this day was over rated. Am so enjoying watching AI7 on Reality TV this week. :wink_ee:

By the way, i think it’s funny how people are re-living the whole thing.

And, that week, I thought that David A and Jason were best of the guys and Syesha and Ramiele were best of the girls (Syesha–mostly b/c I thought her song choice was really great.)

I commend you all for a fascinating discussion in this thread. Makes me want to go back and re-watch some of the episodes.

Although it’s an overused clichà ©, DC literally had me at “Hello”. His rendition of “Happy Together” was ok but certainly didn’t blow me away. I loved DA’s “Shop Around” but wasn’t overly impressed with his “Imagine”. The other DA performances that really stood out for me were “Smoky Mountain Memories” and “Don’t Let The Sun Go Down On Me”.

I attended one of the AI7 Top 10 Tour concerts and thoroughly enjoyed every single performer, even KLC, Ramiele and Chikezie, which surprised the heck out of me.

As for DC & DA’s post-Idol stuff, I’m thrilled that they’re both achieving success. I bought both their CDs on the same day and love listening to all the songs. It’ll be tough for AI8 to top what was, for me, an almost perfect season.

Also, random but wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t there an article somewhere after the finale where one of the producers (Simon Fuller?) basically said in so many words that DC had led the voting since Mariah Carey week? I canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t find it right now, but I swear I read that somewhere way back then.

I remember reading something like that as well – something along the lines of “I’m not surprised David Cook won, but then again, I saw the results each week,” leading us to believe that he had been the frontrunner by a significant margin for quite a while.

Here’s the article with Simon Fuller’s quote
http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/davidcook/articles/story/20947846/rocker_rules_on_american_idol

eta:
Nigel said something similar

Nigel also admitted that he was not shocked when David Cook triumphed over David Archuleta in the most recent season.

“I couldn’t be surprised because I knew the results leading up to that position,” he explained. “I think Archuleta performed better than Cook did [in the finale], but I think the nation looked at [the whole season] and balanced out who they liked.”

I dont think DA was at any kind of disadvantage with the songs he was given. It was all in the performances. David Cook was given “FTEISYF” and could have been horrible but he pulled it off brilliantly. If someone is a great singer, they will turn anything they sing into a great song. I never thought DA ever sounded badly (except for the Chris brown song) I just dont think he had the emotion come through when singing that DC has.

I dont think DC was ever thrown under the bus. I just think DC had done better during the whole season and that is what people were voting on. I for one never saw a knock out as Simon said. I thought they were pretty evenly matched. Except I was blown away by TWIK so that put DC a little ahead for me. I think they both are great singers and are both doing awesome so I dont think it really matters who won. I think DA was kind of glad he was not the winner. I remembering reading an interview he did and that was the impression I got from it. I think he is very happy with how things turned out.

YEah mary he’s fine with how things worked out and im sure he couldnt be happier.

Thank you, Trina! I knew I wasn’t crazy, lol. So, Fuller didn’t put a specific week out there, but did imply that DC had been leading the voting for a while. Interesting. Puts a whole new spin on the throwing people under the bus argument, IMO.

Where did the term “thrown under the bus” come from? I’ve only read it about Season 7. And it seems to be an odd analogy. I mean–there’s no bus.

The only part of this show that was not manipulated was Jason getting into the top 4. He would have been gone top 5 except for Paulaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s blunder about the unheard second song.

If anyone watched the Top 4, they heard Ryan say that three of the contestants have had the highest votes (not Shyesha). Jason scored the highest votes for the Top 5 Neil Diamond theme. Thanks to Paula and her critique of a song Jason never sang. People voted who have never voted before. Brooke, of course was eliminated that week.

If Simon being mean to someone is supposed to get them a whole bunch of votes, well, Kady woulda won the whole thing.

LOL. Or Jason Yeager. Omg, that poor man. Simon called him a dependable old dog, then drunk and ghastly, among other insults… he looked like he was about to cry! And yet, he took it all like a man, and was respectful, etc. I felt for him, but man, did not enjoy his performances at all. Guess others agreed since he got eliminated!

So the TCO stuff is starting to resemble dead horse territory– seems like folks will disagree because everyone sees things differently, so I’ll leave that topic now. Watching Robbie, though, I don’t think Hot Blooded was that good, but not the worst vocal of the night. The problem was he came across horribly in his entire segment. From the pre-performance “get used to it” comment to the judges (re: rock styles), to bristling so visibly at the authenticity comments, sounding way too defensive, to getting frustrated rather than taking in the constructive part of Paula’s advice to “up the ante”. He, unlike Jason Y, did not take it like a man. Oh, and the poseur clothes, the ooh-I’m-so-rawk hand gestures and the mike perpetually up in the air– none of those helped him either. That all made me want him off my screen, which was good for DC, since his back talk that week annoyed quite a bit of viewers and he was definitely in peril.

FolkFan Jan 4th, 2009 at 11:41 am

Repeating from the headlines section: Has there ever been a contestant who looked like he was enjoying the group sings as much as Luke Menard? Cracked me up to rewatch that last night.

FolkFan, keep your eye on Jason Castro during the future group numbers, along with the first Cookie-Johnsy hijinks that grew into the tour dance-offs.

Hi, everybody! I guess I’m one of MJ’s snowbirds. I lurk in the AI off-season and start posting every winter.

I am watching AI7 on Fox Reality, frankly, because it has been way too long since Jason’s been on my TV. As an unexpected bonus, I get a reminder why Michael Johns and David Hernandez were my early favorites. I also really enjoyed Cookie’s Happy Together but found his “smarmy face” even more off putting than his faux hip comb over. Wasn’t there a Robbie Carrico hair controversy, too?

Jason’s Daydream was a revelation in the way Chris Sligh was the only bright spot for me in an otherwise dreary AI6. I could not believe someone/anyone who spoke my musical language could make the top 12. Plus, Jason was so disarmingly sweet, honest and humble. I was thinking Bob Marley!

I think Simon saw Jason’s potential early but likely found his inconsistency and passivity frustrating. I always thought Cookie benefited from the AI niche that Chris Daughtry created in AI5 but which no AI6 contestant could satisfy — and he filled it by taking smart risks that paid off, thus earning Simon’s and the audience’s seal of approval.

Still, AI7 will always be the Year of Jason Castro.

I’ve seen that term for a while on reality shows, Suzanne. On Top Chef, it’s usually used when one contestant thinks that another contestant is trying to bias the judges against him/her. Here, it’s the concept that TPTB and/or judges are trying to bias the voters against a contestant by song selection, commentary, or something else.

ETA: Oh, and I’d say that giving Syesha that Hit Me Up song was definitely a bus-throwing moment. If Dial Idol is to be believed, Syesha won the vote Top 5 week, followed closely by David C. I initially did not believe Dial Idol, but it was kind of confirmed the next week, when Ryan said that 3 of the 4 contestants had each won at least one week. Well, David A and David C certainly had. The most likely week for one of the others to have won a week? Syesha Top 5. (There were weeks, such as Top 8, that I might have put Jason up top, but those were weeks that all the data says that David A won.) I’m not much of a Syesha fan, but that song choice was just ridiculous, IMO. Unknown, and not something that could really highlight her singing.

If anyone watched the Top 4, they heard Ryan say that three of the contestants have had the highest votes (not Shyesha). Jason scored the highest votes for the Top 5 Neil Diamond theme.

Actually, Syesha probably had the highest votes for the Top 5 week.

http://www.dialidol.com/asp/predictions/Predictions.asp?week=5&sort=TD&type=score&season=7

Things were denied to Sy and DA that were granted to others and there was simply no arguing with the producers this year. One of the striking statements made was that the band would play the arrangement they wanted no matter what arrangement was submitted by some of the singers.

What things were denied to Sy and DA? Didn’t Cook have his own arrangements? ABMB? So the band played that arrangement.

Actually, Syesha probably had the highest votes for the Top 5 week.

http://www.dialidol.com/asp/predictions/Predictions.asp?week=5&sort=TD&type=score&season=7

Yes. I think the three of the four who had had top scores were DC, DA, and Syesha. I do believe DialIdol, except for that wonky KLC week.

Mac–it has come out that DA had a lot of songs not cleared (he sought clearance for 6 songs, all denied, for his choice for the last week, for instance), and he requested I don’t want to miss a thing for Top 4 week, which was approved and then later denied, so he substituted Stand By Me) and wanted arrangements (Longer) that he couldn’t have. And Syesha wanted strings on some song, which was denied her, but then DC got an orchestra full of strings that same week for I don’t want to miss a thing.

YEah mary heà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s fine with how things worked out and im sure he couldnt be happier.

Ecstatic. I’m not seeing how AI getting the results they worked so hard for negates that they played hardball to get those results. It’s perfectly legit to say that Cook deserved the win but there’s no way I can agree that the producers didn’t work overtime to trip up anyone who might get in the way of their desired winner and DA was their biggest threat but they had him covered on both fronts. They could pull any shenanigans they wanted backstage and also have a media campaign against him. In fact, I don’t think any other season has been quite as adept at using the media to build favor or defame a character like this one. It proved to be a very useful strategy. I fully expect them to use it full force in season eight too since it yielded results.

I just hope I can watch the drama without any kind of investment.

its not stuff we really like getting into… lol

Ok now I’m probably going to sound terribly naive but would the producers be that horrible to reject a song to Archie and then give it to DC a week later?? I know they can be a bunch of bastards but thats hitting below the belt.

David Cook was given à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“FTEISYFà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  and could have been horrible but he pulled it off brilliantly.

Yo Face was one of my faves, the notes that boy hit, wow. I still have never heard in all the seasons a note like he hit during the middle of MOTN. That was stellar and it reverberated through the studio/audience. It literally blew me away.

I also think there were some shenanigans with banning Archie’s dad at the end of the competition. Archie’s “stage” dad was the major media story and they fed into it. I even bought it and stopped wanting Archie to win. I thought he’d be “freeer” coming in second. So in that case, the producers were playing games. But games or not, I still think Cook would have won the whole thing.

GwendolynD, I am not watching AI7 on Fox Reality. I have taped all the shows. There is another reference made about Syesha not being a top vote getter. I will try to locate it. This was Ryan’s way of telling us Jason did just fine. Also, I recall the headlines in all forms of media concerning what an idiot Paula was and how Jason actually benefited that week.

I am unable to connect to any links at this time, but would be interested in what was said. IMO, Syesha was not impressive that week.

I just wanted to cuddle Jason, and tell him everything will be alright. It was Jason from the first time I laid eyes on him. What a doll babe.

I loved Brooke’s You’re So Vain back then and again now. Loved it. Actually the first half of the girls’ Top 20 was great. Second half, not so much. I had recalled Amanda’s trainwreck. (Ugh.) And Alexandrea and Asia’h screwed themselves with song choices. I had recalled Asia’h's (so many apostrophes there) massive F-up with I Wanna Dance With Somebody Top 16 week, but forgotten All By Myself. And Simon was right—that Chicago song was a huge error for Alexandrea.

I am not buying that TPTB are the reason Cook won. Just dont buy it.

Mary I am not either, AT ALL.

I do believe DialIdol, except for that wonky KLC week.

You know, she was so far ahead of so many others that week acc. to DialIdol, that it’s the only week that I thought that the show might have monkeyed around with the outcome. The week KLC was out, when it was down to three, Ryan said “I’m sending one person back to safety, that person joining us again next week, that person is Syesha.” and then when it was down to two, Ryan said, “the person staying with us is Brooke.” He never said who had the lowest number of votes.

I’ve never thought that they really messed with the outcome because non-winners can contract with 19R and affiliates (Daughtry, Kelly Pickler), so it’s not worth the scandal. But that week was just completely too hinky.

Suzanne, thank you for answering mac. That is exactly how I would have answered.

Trina, they gave DA the song he requested, then after he arranged and rehearsed it, they pulled it from him. Later they gave the song to DC. That is fact.

I also want to add that I am thrilled DA did not win as he would have been crucified by all the haters on the various boards. I am happy he is doing so well now and the sooner he can totally get the stink of AI off of him, the better, IMHO.

I am watching boys top 10 and I love Jason Castros song and he is so cute and funny in the interview before he sang. I had forgotten about this.

and he requested I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to miss a thing for Top 4 week, which was approved and then later denied

I believe that was a rumor. Didn’t Dean Kaelin start it? I’m sorry, but I don’t or ever will take him as a credible source. Some of the “info” he released during the season and the things he said about backstage shenanigans made no sense and came off very very poorly. I remember even some of Archie’s fans were annoyed at him back then saying his actions were reflecting badly on DA. Basically, anytime anything went wrong for DA, it was a game of “blame the producers”.
Not what I consider a credible source by a long shot, but I wasn’t the target audience…

I remember Top 4 week, and it was leaked what DA chose to sing very early on (Stand by Me). Then after DC did IDWTMAT a week later and nailed it, a rumor comes out that DA was supposed to sing it Top 4 and at the LAST MINUTE it got switched over? Uh-huh. Oh, and IDWTMAT is a song with sexual undertones/overtones. I would never buy that DA would choose to sing it. It’s very far away from his comfort zone.

Trina, they gave DA the song he requested, then after he arranged and rehearsed it, they pulled it from him. Later they gave the song to DC. That is fact.

Nah, it’s not, it’s a rumor started by someone who had something to gain by starting it. You saying it’s a fact doesn’t make it so.

I’ve never bought that claim, especially as Stand By Me was one of DA’s best performances of the whole competition and included some rearrangement that does not seem like it could have been done as a last minute sort of thing.

Poor David A. was just to good for them.

They could only pull him back by taking things away from him.

Aw, that is just unfair to reject a song to Archie and then give it to DC a week later.

I don’t think AI is a stink that needs to be washed away. AI is the platform that allowed both DA and DC’s success. They seem like grateful down to earth people. I think distance is the word I would use. And that will happen naturally with time for both of them.

I remember that whole song controversy. I am not sure if it was ever fully explained what happened. I do remember Dean? Is that his name? He is Archie’s vocal coach doing an interview on my local radio station in Orlando, FL. He said something about this and it kinda turned me off. It sounded as if he was blaming DC and yeah I just didn’t like it.

I know that DC gave up songs willingly to other contestants and had songs he wanted to sing turned down. But nobody was a mouth piece for DC during idol so we don’t know all that he was denied.

BTW–I’m not saying that DC shouldn’t have won or anything. He’s enormously talented and, frankly, he had a huge momentum going.

And the four-hour voting period was way past the bedtime of a lot of people voting for David Archuleta. (kidding) (well, not kidding completely, but I don’t think DA would have won no matter what he did that last week and no matter when moms across America made their little voters go to bed.)

Oh–and I have no doubt in my mind that Syesha won Top 5. She was really strong on both her songs that week, and she went last, and Simon slammed her when she was awesome on her last song. And, despite the completely unfair snafu by Paula, the truth is that Jason was leaden on his second song and only okay on Forever in Blue Jeans because the arrangement was straight from the Neil Diamond version, which completely overpowered Jason’s voice. I love Jason, but Syesha was WAY stronger that week.

I thought that Simon was a bit disrespectful to DC on Top 2 night, and got too personal with him with the “smug,” “arrogant,” “no charisma,” comments. (Not that he was the only one subject to overly personal comments from Simon.) I also don’t think that the judges (especially Randy) did DA any favors by sometimes being OTT in their commentary for him, which turned off some viewers. Otherwise, I doubt that the Davids have too much to complain about in terms of Idol’s treatment of them.

Getting back to the rerunning of the episodes: Watching these reruns is fascinating, knowing not only how the season turned out, but also some of the background stuff. You see DC teasing DA at the beginning of Top 10 guys. Knowing the “Four Horsemen” thing, you see the four guys congregating together throughout the first episodes, and DC all but leapt off the couch to give Jason Y. a hug after his singout, followed closely by MJ.

The only specific thing – other than that EW interview where it talked about him giving Syesha a song he’d been considering for Neil Diamond week (“Hello Again”, I think) – I ever heard about DC regarding song choice was something that his grandmother told a paper in Indiana that Bax saw and told me about. It was that the producers (I think Nigel specifically) wanted DC to sing “Addicted to Love” on 80′s week, but he didn’t feel it, so he picked “Hello” instead. And thank GAWD he did.

Sooooooo how about that Garrett Haley performance! Wasn’t he Da Bomb!?!?

It is nice that we can have discussions here and disagree (peacefully). If I find any more information on Jason and Top 5 results, I’ll pass it along.

I am not buying that TPTB are the reason Cook won. Just dont buy it.

I am not buying it either, not with a margin of 12 million votes. It didn’t matter to me which David won. It was a great Finale.

Getting back to the rerunning of the episodes: Watching these reruns is fascinating, knowing not only how the season turned out, but also some of the background stuff. You see DC teasing DA at the beginning of Top 10 guys. Knowing the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Four Horsemenà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  thing, you see the four guys congregating together throughout the first episodes, and DC all but leapt off the couch to give Jason Y. a hug after his singout, followed closely by MJ.

Folkfan, I agree completely. I noticed the same things. Am enjoying this so much more this time around especially since I don’t have to worry about DC getting voted off, LOL

I know that DC gave up songs willingly to other contestants and had songs he wanted to sing turned down. But nobody was a mouth piece for DC during idol so we donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know all that he was denied.

Yeah, that.
We only know he gave a song up willingly to Syesha because a reporter was there to hear about the process of song selection one week and wrote about it as a side note. Appearantly that wasn’t the only time it happened, but DC never went around toting his own horn and had no one to cry foul for him when things didn’t go his way. And a good thing he didn’t, I think Dean’s weekly sour-graping sessions did DA a great disservice in the end.

Man, I really didn’t ever want to think about Dean Kaelin again. Season 8, anyone?

I am not buying it either, not with a margin of 12 million votes. It didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t matter to me which David won. It was a great Finale.

It certainly was a great finale. I loved when they sang”Hero”. They both sounded amazing on that song. And DC with ZZ top and DA singing Apologize. Loved all of it.

Ok, I have to add the guitar Hero commercial, one of the highlights of my night, DC dancing in his underwear!!!!!!

I also think there were some shenanigans with banning Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s dad at the end of the competition. Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“stageà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  dad was the major media story and they fed into it.

I agree. The whole banning story that conveniently came out the weekend leading up to Top 3, the cooked up Stand By Me “controversy” that Frogcooke mentioned upthread, giving him a dud like “Longer” to sing in the first place, not getting his songs cleared for Top 2 and then painting him as someone who took the safe and easy route by reprising Imagine (even though as the only finalist who had to deal with school on top of everything else, he probably had it harder than anyone else last season). I do think DC would have won anyway, and I don’t think that TPTB are the sole reason that he won. But I do think TPTB played some games, and they’ll do the same this season.

Regarding Alexandrea-If I’m remembering correctly, it wasn’t her choice to sing that Chicago song. She was pretty much stuck with it.

To be honest, the thing I didn’t ever like about Archuleta was his perennial contestant status. I saw him as somebody who hadn’t put one bit of effort into being a musician but who put everything into being a pageant contestant. Yes, I realize he has mad vocal skills. I just wasn’t into where he came from or how he went about it. That was a huge strike against him for me from the start. The second strike for me was that he peaked in the second week of the show.

I find the thought of him wanting to sing (and being denied) I Don’t Want to Miss a Thing ludicrous. I laughed when I first heard that (after Cook sang it and got a standing O), and I find it just as hilarious now. It’s so not the song for Archie.

Well, have fun re-hashing this shiz kids, because once Season 8 starts, we won’t be going there. .

I’m going to be a maniac about keeping Season 8 show threads on topic.

I also think there were some shenanigans with banning Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s dad at the end of the competition. Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“stageà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  dad was the major media story and they fed into it.

People don’t get banned for no reason, and the original rumors about the stage-dad issues came from outside sources and were picked up by the media. Hey, maybe Idol producers paid off Naomi Judd to say he acted that way in Star Search? Wow, those evil, manipulative bastards… They’re everywhere!
They must have also drugged that EW reporter who wrote the article where it sounded like he was micro-managing David’s rehearsal.
Also, I don’t remember the producers ever saying anything bad about Jeff Archuleta. The Media had a field day with the story, but it didn’t start with Idol.

We’ll never know what was real and what wasn’t, but I don’t buy for one second that the whole stage dad extravaganza was nothing more than a ploy by evil producers to cut Archie at the knees. That’s really revisionism at it’s best, since when the rumors started, he was very much their favorite to win.

I have met pageant kids and they are well spoken and well rehearsed regarding presentation, just sayin’.

And to be clear, I am a Cook fan, always was and always will be, but I have come to enjoy DA very much in the last few months and have followed his incredible growth and success closely. Watching the show, I have no delusions about the manipulation that played into it week after week.

ETA: the contestant on Star Search who was supposedly harrassed by Jeff Archuleta stated that she had no such encounters with him. And Naomi Judd never was in contact with Jeff or David outside of the actual taping of the show.

edit: Uh NO.

It’s been fun to watch and I’m finding my original opinions of the top 24 have changed. Still can’t stand Amanda’s screeching though she seemed like a nice enough person. Didn’t much care for Alexandrea originally but loved her on second viewing and am sorry she didn’t make top 12. She most definitely deserved it over Amanda as did Alaina. For some reason I never enjoyed Asia’H and was horrified at her rendition of “All By Myself” which was a hot mess.

On second viewing i believe that Alexandrea or Alaina should have been top 12 over Ramaile. Crying shame that didn’t happen.

My thoughts on the guys hasn’t changed much and I think the right ones went home. Agree that Cook’s hair was frightening and terrible. His looks certainly improved as the season went on and I’m thrilled he eventually won as the fawning over Archuleta is still sickening.

Jason – still fun and charming to watch though it’s a little odd when I recall how all the judges turn on him in the end which was not fun to watch.

Sooooooo how about that Garrett Haley performance! Wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t he Da Bomb!?!?

Uh…no.

Oh, I had forgotten Alaina Whitaker having that meltdown before her singout. Sometimes, you just get a reminder that these are kids under a lot of pressure.

Yes, I realize he has mad vocal skills. I just wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t into where he came from or how he went about it. That was a huge strike against him for me from the start. The second strike for me was that he peaked in the second week of the show.

Okay. So there’s nothing wrong with me. I felt the exact same way. Partially, I think because of his age, he was emotionally limited when it came to certain performances. “Imagine” was his single best performance for me.

I don’t know about certain contestants being denied the right to sing certain songs. Maybe so. But, I think that’s where maturity, ingenuity, experience, and insight come in. You make what wouldn’t normally work, work for you in a way that viewers will never forget.

I saw him as somebody who hadnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t put one bit of effort into being a musician but who put everything into being a pageant contestant.

I think with David being so young other ppl had this perception as well. I’m really glad that the producers and songwriters who have worked with him have given glowing reports about his work ethic. I have also read about how much he went through just to be able to sing at all again after his vocal paralysis. The little dude has worked his bum off and now he can reap the rewards.

Actually, the interview with a writer who worked with David that was posted yesterday had some good info on the subj for any David fan’s here that missed it.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve never bought that claim, especially as Stand By Me was one of DAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s best performances of the whole competition and included some rearrangement that does not seem like it could have been done as a last minute sort of thing.

Hopefully it’s okay to post this here. From one of David’s interviews in Life Story Magazine, he confirms that SBM was not the original song he was going to sing on Top 4 night.

Excerpt from Life Story – p. 29:

LIFE STORY: To get away from the intenseness of it all must have been nice. And then you got to go to Las Vegas.
DAVID: That was a lot of fun too. That was Top 4 week and that was another rough week, actually, because I had a song prepared and did the arrangement and edited and practiced and all that stuff, and then I found out that I couldn’t do it anymore! But it worked out, because the song I replaced it with was “Stand By Me,” which I ended up doing on tour and it was so much fun. But it’s always interesting to see how things work out in the end, you know, kind of like with life.

He never mentions the song he had to replace but it’s known from other sources.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think AI is a stink that needs to be washed away. AI is the platform that allowed both DA and DCà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s success. They seem like grateful down to earth people. I think distance is the word I would use. And that will happen naturally with time for both of them.

I can agree with this and I’ve always gotten the impression from DA that he’s very grateful for the experience because he can learn from it and it’s a career path that makes him happy. Some of us fans can’t help thinking certain shenanigans are low but he seems past it and just overall grateful he was there at all.

Excerpt from Life Story – p. 30:

LIFE STORY: Overall, what’s your feeling looking back on the whole American Idol experience?
DAVID: I look back on it and it’s just hard to believe, really, that I actually did it. There was just so much work, so much time put into it — and that I had the strength to pull it off makes me really happy. Looking back, I wouldn’t be here right now looking forward without that experience. If I had decided to keep my summer job, I’d be working on getting my next summer job! Now this summer I went on tour with some of the people I’m closest to, getting to do something I love to do, and being able to share that with thousands of people each night. There have been lots of rough times, ups and downs, like I said, but they all made the experience what it was and it all helped me learn so much.

I recommend getting the magazine or borrowing it to read the full interview and all the other info in there. It’s really good.

But, I think thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s where maturity, ingenuity, experience, and insight come in. You make what wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t normally work, work for you in a way that viewers will never forget.

I don’t know if this is entirely fair because even singers who are already famous and have years of experience can’t do this. Throw in the pressure that all these kids have plus after reading interviews with tons of contestants from all seasons, they don’t really have much time to work on their songs.

[quote]Weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ll never know what was real and what wasnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t, but I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t buy for one second that the whole stage dad extravaganza was nothing more than a ploy by evil producers to cut Archie at the knees.[/quote]

While I don’t think it’s a complete fabrication, the fact that the producers didn’t give a chance for David to defend his dad and clarify a few details until AFTER the finale is telling.

Everything has worked out just the way it was supposed to. Why should Archie be sad about not winning AI..hes doing quite well, and has only more success coming. Cook won and is having great success also. From hearing Archie talk in interviews after the show ended, he actually sounded greatful that he didnt win. Hes matured so much as an artist since AI too. I remember that when I seen them on tour, he blew me away with how talented he was and how great he was onstage. Cook also did. They are both right where there supposed to be now.

I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t know if this is entirely fair because even singers who are already famous and have years of experience canà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t do this. Throw in the pressure that all these kids have plus after reading interviews with tons of contestants from all seasons, they donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t really have much time to work on their songs.

I’m not saying it’s a necessity. I’m saying it helps.

AI is a game with a massive audience. Every little bit counts, and sometimes, strategy is a plus.

Yes I agree that pageant kids are well spoken and well rehearsed. I don’t find them all that real life though. Sarah Palin anybody? If you will notice, everything I said about what I didn’t like about Archuleta was in the past tense. The kid has really impressed me since his album came out. He will definitely go far. He just didn’t impress me much on the show. I found his emotions contrived (or as you say well rehearsed). I guess I just didn’t connect (to be honest, I still don’t…just not my kind of music). I can see, however, that he connects with many many people and I’m delighted for him.

He never mentions the song he had to replace but ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s known from other sources.

I can believe his song was switched, the place I’m having problems with is the very thought of Archie going anywhere near IDWTMAT. Seriously. He still to this day sings about faraway crushes at most. That song is to a lover sharing your bed. It’s about x40 times more sexual in its vibe than anything Archie touched on Idol.
I might buy the producers trying to challenge him with it, but as his own choice? Wha?

Jolene, Davidà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s vocal coach talks about the song in his diary about the show experience.

Yeah, I know, Dean Kaelin was and to this day is the only source for that little tid-bit. And I don’t believe him about anything relating to Idol, Based on my own experience hearing things he said during the season. Some of it was flat out untrue.
Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

OK, I admit I went overboard with the “stink of AI” comment. I lost my cool there and I know all of the contestants, but particularly DA, have stated their gratitude to the show for the opportunities it has afforded them.

About the stage dad thing. I know in several interviews cook stood up for Jeff and said he never seen anything of that..so it always made me wonder if any of that crap was true.

I don’t think that I have ever actually posted here but I can see DA doing IDWTMAT. After hearing Barriers and Desperate off his new CD. Also, to call DA a “pagaent kid” after hearing DJ’s talk about his depth of musical knowledge and even Showbiz Shelly in her recent interview (on youtube) asks him how he knows about things from the 80′s when he wasn’t even born until 1990. (That is a very funny interview, by the way, what a flirt!)

Jolene, David’s vocal coach talks about the song in his diary about the show experience.

Caringgirl, I’m enjoying your posts! It is fun to see fellow fans enjoy and support both David’s! Hopefully we’ll have many years to do this

I want to put my 2 cents in on the pimping/depimping. When the judges give serious critiques with compliments or constructive criticism, I think the audience, fans, and contestants appreciate it. HOWEVER, when the OTT pimping happens or the when mean-spirited cut downs for no reason happen, I don’t think that should reflect at ALL on the singer it’s being directed to. It’s totally unfair to the performer, as the performer can’t control this. I can’t imagine any of those kids liking it when the judges over praise or when they cut them down. So, we the fans should never vote or not vote based on the over exuberance (good or bad) of the judges. Again, the kids have no control over pimping or anything the judges decide to do/say. I take the judges input only when it’s constructive in some way. When they go overboard, I just consider it junk talk, and it should roll off most peoples backs.

IDWTMAT.

David A. can sing this song. lol

He just wasn’t given the chance.

“I can believe his song was switched, the place Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m having problems with is the very thought of Archie going anywhere near IDWTMAT. Seriously. He still to this day sings about faraway crushes at most. That song is to a lover sharing your bed”

“Here we are, lying here, it’s our last final goodnight. Just because it feels so good……………” lyrics from DA’s song Barriers. DA will probably never sing blatantly sexual lyrics but he does not shy away from normal life experiences in his lyrics.

aww thank you Igetcranked. I love both David’s. The way I see it they are both a win win situation. Archie is selling the heck out of crush, and soon to sell the heck out of ALTNOY (which I love btw) They are both selling the heck out of their albums. Archie blew me away on the AI tour. Loved him.

I can’t imagine him singing IDWTMAT either. I just dont think it would be very believable. I know he has been singing these kinds of songs since he was probably 12 but that doesn’t mean he should. I remember seeing an article about a song he sang on star search and some thought it wasn’t appropriate for his age. I would have to agree with that on this song (not about his age but just not suited for DA). And if this was the song that was replaced with “Stand by Me”, thank goodness because that one suited him perfectly and he did an awesome job. Some things happen for a reason.

I will be SO happy when DA’s appearance becomes old enough to look sexy, sing sexy lyrics, dance in a sexy manner on stage, and etc., lol.

So there, I said it. (He’s 18 now, so things like that can be said). lol

He has a natural rhythm, but holds back I believe, so it’s doable……one day.

à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Here we are, lying here, ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s our last final goodnight. Just because it feels so goodà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦Ãƒ ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  lyrics from DAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s song Barriers.

I love Barriers and you are so right. It is really a similar song.

You know, now I’m thinking back to a behind the scenes article from Top 3 night and I’m wondering. I can’t remember the exact details but the reporter said that after DC finished IDWMAT Nigel was jumping up and down pumping his fist in the air and I thought there may have been something as well about Jeff looking pissed. Does anyone remember this?

I’m sorry, IDWTMAT and DA just don’t go together in my mind in any capacity. There’s more to a song than lyrics. Nothing in IDWTMAT’s lyrics is overtly sexual, but the overall vibe of the song is.
I have no idea what berriers sounds like (sorry), but I doubt it sounds like a song between lovers, simply because I doubt DA would feel comfortable singing it considering the target audience for his album, and his religion.

In the end, my problem with the whole silly thing is that some of DA’s fans use it to make it sound like DC took something from him, or got some unfair advantage. I just don’t buy the story, and considering how well Stand By Me worked for DA, I have to say I don’t even get the big wrong that’s supposedly been done to him.

When dad stops physically standing in eyeshot and as DA matures just a bit more, I believe he will let it rip! He’s very in tune with his audience. He loves them, wants them to touch him. And he’s smart enough to know how to work the girls up, lol. Soooo, matter of time.

Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m sorry, IDWTMAT and DA just donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t go together in my mind in any capacity. Thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s more to a song than lyrics. Nothing in IDWTMATà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s lyrics is sexual, but the overall vibe of the song is.

DA sang IDWTMAT for the producers’ round of his auditions. This is also from his interview in the Life Story Magazine.

Jolene, thank you for admitting you are framing some of your opinions on things you have no idea about.

DA sang IDWTMAT for the producers round.

Aw, they already knew how good David A. could sing the song. Because if he was not good they would not have picked him.

I have no idea what berriers sounds like (sorry), but I doubt it sounds like a song between lovers, simply because I doubt DA would feel comfortable singing it considering the target audience for his album, and his religion.

It sounds like a song between lovers. IDWMAT doesn’t sound any more mature to me than Barriers.

If DA can sing a song that conveys a meaning as deep as Imagine, I don’t know why he can’t sing a fluffy love song. IDWMAT only seems like a sexual, rock song because Aerosmith sang it first. But underneath that, it’s still a Diane Warren trademark cheesy ballad.

Jolene, thank you for admitting you are framing some of your opinions on things your have no idea about.

I never claimed to hear DA’s album, since I never did. Not the style of music I enjoy.
As fun as this discussion is, I honestly don’t care enough to go listen to a song I have no interest in hearing, just to prove a point.

BTW – what DA has on his album right now hardly tells us much about what went on during Idol. He didn’t do half the things he does now back then, including singing anything but inspirational ballds.
But I guess that’s because of the producers and their evil manipulations again. Oh well.

Sort of like once they heard him sing Gnarls Barkley’s Crazy, they didn’t want it shown (but then they let it be performed by Jason during the tour). Anyway, I think that this is essentially about manipulation by TPTB but in the end, the right two people made it to the finals. And even though I voted like crazy for DA, I (like Rascal in his blog) think that it is for the best that DA came in 2nd because he could choose a different management team than 19M (while still using Jive for the music part) and I think that both Davids have long and interesting careers ahead of them in the music business.

I don’t know whether DA would do a good job on IDWTMAT. Haven’t heard it, and I’m cool with that. Frankly, I think that SBM was a great choice for DA Top 4 week, and I can think of tons of other songs that I would have preferred for DC at Top 3 week. Tons. Granted, I hate that song, and considered it a mild miracle that DC made me like it enough to buy it on itunes. But I’d have much preferred to have a studio version of Yo Face.

Watching the Robbie Carrico sinigout was interesting. DC was standing right behind him, and I still believe that what happened to RC that week was not that he was one of the two worst, but that people looked at him and DC and said, huh, I know which one is the real rocker, and it ain’t that Robbie character.

First I need to say this is strictly MHO.

I have no doubt that DA can sing IDWTMAT, I “think” what Jolene is saying (and I agree) is that DA could not pull off the sexual innuendo of the song like DC did. DC just had a raw sexual vibe going on, the boy learned how to use his eyes too. I just don’t get the sexual vibe from DA’s songs. I am remembering the *panty* episode from the AI tour & DA freaked. I think in time he won’t freak, lol.

Do I think DA could put that vibe into it in the future? Yes I do. He will at some point experience sex (is that ok to say on here? lol) and I think he will be unstoppable!

Having said that, DC could sing Stand By Me, but I don’t know if he could have pulled it off like DA did.

The two are totally different types of singer’s. DC has a raw strong voice, DA has a pure sweet voice. Each has their own strength’s.

Didn’t Jason use Crazy for his Hollywood round audition? Thought I’d read that he blew the judges away but that they (the producers) didn’t want to pay extra $$$ to get the rights to it? Maybe I was DayDreaming, lol.

Perhaps everyone should pop over to youtube and take a quick look at DA singing A Little Too Not Over You. And take a listen to Barriers and Desperate too. I do think it is hard to say that one isn’t into someone’s type of music when all they have heard is idol songs. (or, I guess Silent Night and Oh Holy Night). But seriously, take a listen to Desperate and Barriers. Now, if you don’t like the sound of a person’s voice regardless of what they are singing, that is different. I love Cook’s voice but mostly in certain songs but I always give him a chance and it is to my benefit.

Didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t Jason use Crazy for his Hollywood round audition?

Yeah I think that both Jason and DA sang Crazy in Hollywood week. But what I read before was that they couldn’t get the song cleared, not that they didn’t want to. I could be wrong though.

Didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t Jason use Crazy for his Hollywood round audition?

Yes he did. He sang the Ray LaMontagne version.

Thought Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢d read that he blew the judges away but that they (the producers) didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t want to pay extra $$$ to get the rights to it?

Uh…Danger Mouse said “no.” I don’t think money would have changed his mind.

Here is Jason Castro’s take on the whole deal:

“Q: What songs didn’t get cleared in those early rounds?

A: In the auditions, for the first two auditions, I sang “Crazy” by Gnarls Barkley, but in the style of Ray LaMontagne, one of my favorite singer/songwriters ever. He just did a really cool version of that. That never cleared. Another song I love to do is “Santeria” by Sublime. I tried to do that in Hollywood week for my second day, and they said it cleared, but then they changed their mind. And then I tried again while we were out here à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  it never cleared. “

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1587105/20080508/id_0.jhtml

I have read in several places that the producers all but begged Gnarls Barkley to permit them to use Crazy on the show, and one of the two guys who make up Gnarls Barkley absolutely refused. It rather sounds like there was no amount of money that would get that song on AI.

Now, given how licensing works in arenas, the song could be used as a cover in the tour. Then the arena pays the licensing fees through a mass license.

We know Adam from Season 8 loves “Crazy”, will be interesting to see if they finally get it cleared for him. It could be it clears seeing as how the song is a bit older now.

OT I know, but speaking of Adam, I hope he doesn’t hang around long. His tongue bothers me sometimes. It sort of lays out fat and flat when he hits his glory notes, ewww.

This conversation is confusing me on one ground. I thought that a contestant that made it through to Hollywood’s final performance round without having to do that intermediate acapella round only had four rounds:

Cattle Call/Producers
Judges in the audition city
Hollywood initial round
Hollywood final round

We know that DA did John Mayer for two rounds and did Bryan Adams’ Heaven for one round. So how are there two other songs that he did during the auditions? Is there a round that I’m missing?

Wow. This whole conversation about “I Don’t Want to Miss a Thing” is venturing into dead horse territory.

And could we please remember to be polite to each other? I’m not liking the tone of some of these posts. Really, the contest is over now. There’s no point in becoming angry and defensive after all these months.

Yea, folkfan , there are a few rounds before you get to those.. they are just not talked about much.

I à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“thinkà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  what Jolene is saying (and I agree) is that DA could not pull off the sexual innuendo of the song like DC did.

Yeah. I just can’t imagine what Archie’s version of the song would sound like, It’s a matter of taste and opinion. IDWTMAT to me is a raw song, it needs that drive to be anything other than a sappy ballad (BTW – still one of my least favorite songs of all time, just to be clear, I don’t think it was a great “steal” that Idol gave it to Cook). And as I’ve said before – the whole point was originally to show how AI wronged Archie by “taking” the song away from him… and I ask again, how? Stand by Me was great for him. Why would his fans still feel cheated when that was the end result?

I do think it is hard to say that one isnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t into someoneà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s type of music when all they have heard is idol songs.

I heard both his singles. I’m very well aware that he isn’t singing the same type of songs he sang on AI, the problem is I don’t like teen pop.
It’s OK, Archie has a huge market that’s very lucrative, and a record company that excells with his kind of music. He doesn’t need 20 something rock fans like me to be big.

ETA: MJ, saw your post after writing mine. Moving on…

I’m going to repeat this:

Wow. This whole conversation about à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“I Donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t Want to Miss a Thingà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  is venturing into dead horse territory.

And could we please remember to be polite to each other? Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m not liking the tone of some of these posts. Really, the contest is over now. Thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s no point in becoming angry and defensive after all these months.

Dead Horse. Beaten. To Death.

Let’s move on.

Just as a comparison, a song like The First Time Ever I saw Your Face would be more something DA should NOT sing, as he hasn’t first-time laid with anyone and felt the earth move, lol. Some songs can be up for debate as to whether too mature, but Flack’s song is blatant. Some are and some are more subtle.

Sort of like once they heard him sing Gnarls Barkley’s Crazy, they didn’t want it shown (but then they let it be performed by Jason during the tour).

The licensing for singing a song in front of an audience on tour is completely different than for performing it on television. It’s like Prince songs being performed on tour (they were) and Prince not allowing his songs to be performed on Idol, with a few exceptions.

There’s no manipulation at work, there.

Tomorrow’s (well, tonight’s) rerun should be great. The Top 8 guys really stepped it up. Hello, Hallelujah. Arguably, the best night of the season, in terms of average performance quality. At a minimum, it would have to be in the conversation, I would think.

Frankly, I hope singers will retire “Crazy”. Cleared for the show or not, it has been covered to death!

I have heard ALTNOY and Crush and watched both the videos and have heard Barriers. I really like these songs and think they fit DA. I really do think he has a wonderful voice. I agree with Jolene and Lisa, in that if I saw DA perform IDWTMAT, I wouldn’t believe it. That is JMO. Maybe DC has spoiled me to this song. Once DA is older most definitely. I just have a hard time thinking of DA and sex in the same sentence. Could be I am just too old, LOL

ETA: sorry MJ saw your posts after I had already posted this.

Tomorrowà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s (well, tonightà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s) rerun should be great. The Top 8 guys really stepped it up. Hello, Hallelujah. Arguably, the best night of the season, in terms of average performance quality. At a minimum, it would have to be in the conversation, I would think.

I agree, can’t wait to see DC singing Hello on my big screen again. And I must admit I loved Jason singing Hallelujah. I forgot how much I really liked some of his early performances.

I just have a hard time thinking of DA and sex in the same sentence.

IDWMAT is not necessarily a song about sex though. It’s the theme song to Armageddon, a movie about father-daughter love , more than anything. And iirc, in the music video for it, there are scenes of Liv Tyler, touching the screen where her father, Steve Tyler, is singing the song. A song is always open to different interpretations and if DC sings the song, it may sound like it is about sex but when DA sings it, it may sound about something else that may work too.

Heh, ok I’m done beating the dead horse. Sorry Mj.

The licensing for singing a song in front of an audience on tour is completely different than for performing it on television. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s like Prince songs being performed on tour (they were) and Prince not allowing his songs to be performed on Idol, with a few exceptions.

Thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s no manipulation at work, there.

Gnarls Barkley allowed eventual Australian Idol 5 winner Natalie Gauci to sing “Crazy” during the Oz Idol charity episode in the fall of 2007.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeHft8d4GBw

Who knows why GB and AI7 couldn’t come to an agreement on using the song in a televised episode?

When I started reading through this thread, it was a blast! It felt like the wonderful days of AI7′s summer tour when I discovered this blog and eagerly read recaps, searching for good news and reviews about my fav. And that’s why I came to love MJ and this site (and I do even more now that I’ve learned she’s a hardcore Penn State fan!!! WE AREà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦ ). Over time, there has been a lot of love for all the Idols, and there were almost no harsh comments like I often found on other sites. :clap_tb: But after reading ALL the comments on this thread :blink_tb:, I do feel the need to come out of lurkdom and add my half-a-cent.

A confession first though :arrow_wp: I have never been an AI fan until this year. Gasp. I know that’s heresy, and if you stop reading now, I’ll understand! I really will. :wink_wp: I have watched the show in prior years, but it was because I was a captive audience. You see, my darling hubby would come to whatever room I was working in and turn on the show because he wanted to share it with me. :help_tb: He was cute, so I let him. Down through the years to make it at least interesting, I would chose who I thought would win, but more for the sense of feeling smart than because I cared about the artist. I chose Kelly, then Clay, then JHud. Can you sense the trend? Once Jennifer was voted off, we both stopped watching because we just did not care for Fantasia’s voice. We didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t watch again until the end of AI5, when I chose Taylor…because apparently the layoff made me smart again. We did watch the beginning of AI6 because Melinda was fabulous, but again, once we sensed that she wouldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t win, we kind of lost interest. Then came AI7 and David A. and Imagine. My husband, finally smart himself, was watching downstairs when he yelled up to me, “Honey, come quick!” I did…and I was lost.

I am sharing all of this so you can see that I am a newbie at this whole AI subterfuge thing, so all the talk about TPTB, TCO, or stealth TCO is over my head. I actually thought the bias was quite apparent even before I saw Simon on the Ellen show the day of the finale saying that DC should win because, à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“when you get past the oh-my-goshes and the hecks, thereà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s not much there.à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  My heart broke for Archie that day because Simonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s comment was unnecessary and personal, and frankly, unprofessional.

Several of you have commented on Archieà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s Shop Around and his joy during and after the performance and wondered what happened over the season. I have thought a lot about this a lot since the end of AI and have concluded that Simon probably had something to do with this. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and not question his motivesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦entirely. I think it is possible that he did think DA was the most vocally talented singer; maybe he even thought so throughout the competition. However, as the season progressed, Archie seemed increasingly unable to communicate in any way but musically; I remember being very concerned for him myself. I also think it is possible that Simon was simply calling it like he saw it when he declared Archie the nightà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s winner in the final two competition. Heck, I agreed with himà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦even though I didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think DA would win. (Confession #2 -> I had discovered DialIdol and saw that Archie had long been the underdog to DC.)

However, when Simon began routinely criticizing Archie (before his Ellen appearance), I figured that he simply did not think DA was ready to wear the AI mantle. My very favorite song that Archie sang was And So It Goes. It was accapella, pitch-perfect, and heartfelt, yet Simon did not care for it. Granted, criticism comes with the territory and should be constructive, but it seemed to be an abrupt about face on Simonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s part, somewhat negating the constructive part. I believe David had a hard time dealing with Simonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s criticism because of this and also because Archie seems to be harder on himself than anyone else could be; I think he really struggled with self-doubt while he was locked up in the AI bubble.

But thankfully, the story did not end there. Thankfully, DC was the kind-hearted champion that he was and that he became one of DAà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s biggest defenders. Thankfully, both Davids have experienced a wonderful beginning to their burgeoning music careers! And thankfully, they are once again in front of audiences, responding to them, and winning the hearts of the massesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦being judged by the people who really matter.

That was a nice post susie, enjoyed reading it.

What a well thought out post susie. I think you may be onto something regarding DA. Although I don’t think Simon’s comments affected David much (he has stated in many interviews that sometimes he could hardly hear and process the judges comments because he was still on a performance high) I do think the whole idol process was overwhelming him to a degree. Not to mention he was always exhausted as he was the only finalist doing school full time while on the show.

Just one more reason why there should be an age limit. I actually have problems with a parent allowing their high school student to be a part of the show. Even with the success of Jordin and David, I’d never in a million years allow my high school aged child to be a part of American Idol…never (and thank God I only have one more in high school and she sings about as well as me so it would be a non-issue). I’ve always been aware that some have high school. I’ve always made sure that I didn’t care. That is the choice they make. I don’t give them extra credit for it. It’s not like their voice will go away if they wait a year or two. I actually think the maturity would help more than hinder them, so yeah, having to do homework while on Idol doesn’t impress me.

I actually think the maturity would help more than hinder them, so yeah, having to do homework while on Idol doesnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t impress me.

Wow. It makes me think he is more mature for working as hard as he did. I’ve read that he tried really hard to maintain his A average. I saw other contestants get very emotionally drained and nervous near the end but David held up better than they did even though they were older.

Wow. It makes me think he is more mature for working as hard as he did.

I know, right?

Sorry, but I doubt any of the idols, even DC, if offered a chance at a major recording contract at age 17, would’ve chosen being a full-time high school student over the chance to live out their dream. It’s his passion, why not take that chance? Besides, you never know how long AI is gonna be around for… if he waited two more years, a lot of things can happen… AI may be off the air, or AI may not be the #1 show it is now and not provide him the kind of jumpstart he needed. You never know. If the chance to follow your dream, presents itself now, age should not matter, unless you’re like a toddler and seriously cannot think for yourself, which clearly, DA can.

Oops, posted in wrong thread….Alright, all taken care of.

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Peace Out and POKE SMOT :smoke_tb:

I am not buying that TPTB are the reason Cook won. Just dont buy it.

Me either, no way. I do think the voting was manipulated the night Ruben beat Clay, possibly, but in season 7 I saw DA being praised throughout the show. DC on the other hand, had to work hard to win respect.

DA was great but I think expectations were set up that he would win, and then when he didn’t, fans were so shocked that they were sure it must be a lie. I can see how it would be hard to accept, after thinking all season that he was going to win.

I think that sales tell the story. DC’s cd is selling very strongly, suggesting that he did have widespread popularity after all.

After season 2, Clay sold more than Ruben and had successful tours that Ruben didn’t have, which suggested that he did have more support and probably should have won. I still think he really won that night, as his fans could not get through on the phone lines to vote that night. But it doesn’t matter now.

I don’t think DC’s win was manipulated. Seriously a part of me didn’t even want him to win, as I wasn’t sure it would be the best thing to happen to him, so I would have been fine either way.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. LOL

I think that when Simon and Randy proclaimed DA the winner, they genuinely thought that he had given a better performance that night and expected him to win. I strongly disagreed with them at the time, but I still think that they were giving their honest opinion. One thing Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve noticed about Simon is that he hates to be wrong. I have a hard time believing that he pretended to favor DA so that people would vote for DC. It would ruin the à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m always rightà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  image that he tries to project and it would also go against what weà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ve seen in prior seasons. The à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“winkà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  that everyone keeps talking about still just looks like an eye twitch to me.

I remember watching the finale and thinking that David Cà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s performances of the U2 song and TWIK were amazing . To me, TWIK was one of the best performances of the entire season by anyoneà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦he was able to take a relatively bland song and make a profound connection with viewers without a single glory note. However, it was also a very anti-Idol moment, and in retrospect, it was probably the reason for the initial lukewarm comments from the judges and the reason for Simonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s backtracking the next day. At the time, however, I couldnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t understand why the judges proclaimed DA the winner that night. I thought it was their way of manipulating the casual viewers to vote for DA. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s funny how we all see things so differently. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m pretty sure that had DA won, thatà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s what a lot of the Cook fans would be saying on this thread. Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m glad that Cook won, but I think that the judgesà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢ comments really tainted his win to a certain extent.

When I think about contestants that were treated unfairly, the one that comes to mind is Syesha, not Archie. One could also make a good argument for Jason and Carly. To me, Sy wins the award for the most underrated, unappreciated performer of the season. Syesha had the looks and the voice to be successfully marketed as an R&B performer. She also struck me as one of the most determined contestants that season. My guess is that TPTB and Simon (who was heavily invested in Leona) did not want another R&B performer to make it to the top 2, which would have guaranteed a recording contract. Ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s possible that Simonà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s dislike of Syesha rubbed off on viewers or ità ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s possible that viewers were just sick of Syeshaà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢s propensity to sing Whitney songs. Sadly, when she did perform different songs like Yesterday and Hello Again, she still didnà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t get the praise that she deserved. It must have been psychologically very rough for herà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ ¦.I wonder if American Idol and Simon are responsible for those strange self-help blogs that she writes all the time.

I think Syesha did very well, coming in 3rd, but I do think the two Davids were the best of all the contestants.

Syesha would be awesome doing musical theater. She’s very theatrical and has a real knack for acting out characters. I would love to see her on stage doing her thing.

I wanted Jason to go farther, but there were really so many talented performers that season. Was the top 5 Jason, Brooke, Syesha, and the two Davids? If so, I thought they had it right.

Susie, I said I would avoid this thread and obviously I didn’t. (Saw all the pages and let curiosity win out.) I am so glad I read your post — I am in full agreement! I am thrilled for David and love the way he has conducted himself post-idol — to me, he has shown amazing maturity — and I’m also happy for his buddy, David Cook, because I believe that David Archuleta would WANT Cook to have the level of success that he does.

I’ve lost trust in Simon and AI, however, despite intentions that could possibly be more good-hearted than they seem (as you suggest.) The talk-show-circuit characterizations by Simon seemed really low. There’s a reason that boy is full of joy, and to me he is unusual in character. If anything, post season I’ve come to admire David more. Who hears some of the lowest criticisms of their person and simply says, “that’s too bad”? Amazing.

On the pageant child suggestion: well, heck. I really hate that. David has said that he would characterize his relationship with his father as pretty typical, and I have no reason to doubt him.

I see David as a sensitive soul who was likely affected by the many complicated things happening around him — and since I am a fan who has followed the story more closely than a non-fan, I will say that I would not be surprised if some of his reactions had as much to do with his fellow contestants than with himself. His response to Alex’andria’s departure said (to me) that he’d really connected with her, felt badly at her loss and would miss her. Yet the non-fans tried to sell that as a negative. I’ll never buy that someone hurting at the pain and departure of friend is bad. Never. For those of you who are watching the Fox Extra replay, there’s a point later in the show when David A. is already on the sofa and David Cook is told he is safe. Cook walks over to David, and the look on David’s face is one of sheer happiness. He was thrilled for his friend. I don’t get Fox Extra and I can’t watch but I’ll NEVER forget that expression.

Although the in-your-face negativity of fanwars has threatened my sanity at times, I’m glad that I invested so fully in the welfare of David Archuleta. His voice and person bring me enough happiness to outweigh the negatives.

I will say that I would not be surprised if some of his reactions had as much to do with his fellow contestants than with himself.

I think that you are right. Every single results night he looked on the verge of throwing up, and I think it was the emotional burden of knowing that someone was going to be eliminated. I think nearly all of the contestants suffered on those nights, but they each showed it differently. Most of the girls cried. Cook even cried a couple of times. For DA it seemed to manifest itself in such a way that he appeared tongue-tied and clueless. He obviously didn’t like getting emotional in front of the cameras (remember how he hid behind Syesha during Brooke’s sing-out?). I think he was just trying to hold himself together. It was a shame because it fed into many of the misconceptions that non-fans had of him (inarticulate, emotionally stunted, etc.).

And Kathy H, I love this phrase: “that boy is full of joy.” :happy_tb:

eta: I am not claiming that elimination nights were harder for him than for the other contestants, but I am saying that I think they were harder for him, personally, than many realized.

May — totally agree w/your last paragraph!

Overall — I think Knolling and trying to “catch” TPTB in manipulation is fun, but if I’m being very honest I don’t think they’re smart or organized enough to pull it off.

They have their hands full just getting the show out every week (to be fair they do a good job, just watching other reality/talent shows makes me appreciate how well done AI really is.)

Aw, MJ! You kinda liked Archie’s Shop Around this time…how cool I remember loving it. That performance showed his stage presence at its best I think. I have missed the re-broadcasts so far because I just moved last weekend and my new cable and internet just got installed today. I’m recording the rest of them though

Overall à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬’  I think Knolling and trying to à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“catchà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬  TPTB in manipulation is fun, but if Ià ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢m being very honest I donà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢t think theyà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã¢â€ž ¢re smart or organized enough to pull it off.

OMG, seriously. Some of the elaborate theories that we come up with (and yes, I’m saying ‘we’ because I am just as guilty as anyone) just gives TPTB entirely too much credit. Seriously.

And if this was the song that was replaced with à ¢Ã¢â€š ¬Ã…“Stand by Meà ¢Ã¢â€š ¬ , thank goodness because that one suited him perfectly and he did an awesome job. Some things happen for a reason.

I do agree, Mary. In 1961, Stand By Me – Ben E. King ranked as the #4 song of the year. I know, because I bought the 45 rpm record. The first time I heard David A. sing it, I replayed his version 6 times. It was fantastic! In concert, he was so comfortable and confident with this song that it turned out to be my favorite of the night. It was perfect!

It is nice that we can have discussions here and disagree (peacefully).

The comment I made about 75-80 posts ago. Peace.